Hi All. I have been reading the forums for a few weeks and just decided to join. I have found a lot of the things that I have read to be honest and helpful, and I am hoping for some help with my situation.
I am 38, my wife is 33. we have been together for just over 4 years, married for 1.5, and we have a 3 year old son.
This has been a tough year for my wife, and for myself as well. Her mother was diagnosed with cancer in January and passed away in February. She moved in with us for those 5 weeks and my wife took a leave from work to care for her. I was a great husband and a great help to her during that time. Naturally my wife went through a period of grief, and I was there for her the best that I could, whether it be to give her a hug or listen to her, and I know that she appreciated all that I tried to do.
Fast forward to May of this year, and that is when the serious problems arouse. I was accused of being unfaithful to my wife and naturally she was livid. She was convinced that I had cheated, but I did not. She wanted me to leave, she wanted a divorce. She could not stand to look at me.
I did not want this, so I spent the months of May and June just trying to get her to listen to me. I never cheated, it didnt add up, I was always where I said I was going to be, I always answered her calls and texts, where would I find time to do anything like that? Finally after about 2 months of going through this, she calmed down. I do not think that she was ever convinced that I did not cheat, but I think that she was more convinced that she could not prove anything.
In early July we slowly started talking again, and getting our marriage back on track. We went to marriage counseling, but both counselors that we tried were uneffective, the sessions were more like refereed arguments.
My wife and I started to get alog much better beginning in August. We still had an occasional blowout every 3 or 4 weeks, and her automatic response to that would be to tell me that this is never going to get better and she wants a divorce, and that if it was financially possible she would leave and get her own place. At first these arguments really bothered me and I would attempt to talk to her. But the more we argued like this I began to take it as part of her cycle: when she was mad she would tell me she wants a divorce.
Back in early October she was put on an antidepressant, she was having a hard time with the grief from her mothers passing, and all of the problems that we had been having. She came to me after she got put on medication and she apologized to me. She told me that she could now see that she has been blaming me for all of her problems, when in actuality they had nothing to do with me. She thanked me for sticking by her and assured me that she loved me. That meant a lot to me.
A few weeks later was when things got crazy. I have never questioned her faithfulness to me. But I came home on October 21 and noticed that she had an email account up on the computer screen. It was hers, she had set it up in secrecy. In that email, she had sent one email to one of her friends saying to use this account for any secret stuff. I am not one to snoop, but I found this somewhat alarming. I monitored the email account, and 2 days later my wifes friends wrote back with the phone number and name of a divorce lawyer. I didnt say anything to my wife about knowing about the email account, but I did continue to monitor it. In the meantime my wife and I had been getting along great. We were laughing, going out together, a lot of talk about the future, and it just felt good. In my mind I figured that she had just set that email account up one day when she was angry at me. She had not even logged back into the account until November 7. But when she did she responded to her friends email with the divorce lawyer info, and she wrote "thanks, I will save this for when the time comes". Hmmmm. That very day on 11/7 she also forwarded an email to her secret account from her work email. This was an email that she had written back in July to an old boyfriend. In that email she had confessed her love to him, and told him that she wished that the two of them had a chance together. This guy had finally responded to her on 11/7 and she forwarded the whole email string to her secret account. His response was hard to decipher, he wrote something along the lines of he was sorry to hear she was unhappy in her marriage, and then told her how she was always so beautiful. still I said noting to the wife, because still we were getting along great and my gut told me that nothing was going on. But i continued to monitor her secret email account. on 11/12 she forwarded another email to her secret account from her work email. This one was an article from online about a Walmart store that had just celebrated its 15th year of business. In the article in mentioned the store manager, who just so happened to be a different ex boyfriend of hers. I was thoroughly confused. We had been getting along great, but I had seen with my own eyes that she had been talking about divorce lawyers with her friend, and she had tabs on 2 old boyfriends. Still I said nothing to her. I read DB and DR. I absorbed all of the info, knowing that I might need some help this time.
On 11/14 I called her on my way to work. We were still getting along great at this point. On that call, she had told me that she had gotten ready for work early and taken the backroad, scenic route. I asked her if she had stopped anywhere, and she told me that she had stopped at Walmart, the Walmart that her ex works at. She was unaware that I knew he worked there. I asked her if she had seen anyone she knows there. She said no. Finally I couldnt take it anymore and I told her that i knew everything and she needed to be honest with me.
About the divorce lawyer info, she said that she was talking about that with her friend back wen things werent going well between us.
about the email that she wrote to ex bf #1, she said that she wrote that when she was in a bad place, depressed, and that he had written back and she had just deleted it.
About the Walmart bf, she said that yes, she had gone there to hopefully bump into him, and she did. She said that they chatted for a few minutes about how they have been (they had broken up back in 2006), and they talked about both of their mothers (his had passed recently too), and the way that they had left it was "hey it was nice to see you, take care of yourself", with her giving him her email address in case he ever wanted to reach her. I am not sure how much of that I beleive. She tells me that she never cheated on me and never would, and this was striclty her wanting to see how he was doing.
After I confronted her, she flipped everything on me for snooping. I knew that it was wrong of me to do that, but I felt it was warranted in this situation. She got pissed, told me she wanted a divorce, and then went on to tell me that the reason that she had been contacting these ex's was becasue she still thinks that I cheated on her back in May, and she said that there was an emotional connection missing between us and she wanted a divorce.
She went away for the weekend with my son to visit her grandparents. She called me the next day, she told me that she was sorry that she did what she did, and that she just had a brain fart and would stop. Again she assured me that she had no intention of cheating on me, etc. She told me that she thought that I was too controlling and that the tighter the leash I kept on her the more it made her want to rebel. I do not think I am controlling in the least bit, she takes me asking how her day was as interrogating her.
I am confused as to what to do now. I love my wife and want to keep my marriage and my family together. I know that she loves me, but I am not sure how much damage is already done. Something is not right.
I am the type to always initiate the converstations with her, to always try to fix things and let her know that I love her. But I feel like this time I need to do something else, maybe I had been smothering her.
Would a 180 help my situation? I know that there is still love here, but I feel like it is buried underneath alot of of things. I do not understand why she has been acting out for the past month, especially when we had been getting along so great. And I am doubtful that she will stop this behavior.
It would be nice to hear anyones opinion/advice. I feel that if I dont step up my game and do something now then it is going to be too late.
Her and my son will be home tonight from her grandparents. I have not spoken to her all day. Can anyone help?
Welcome to the board.
Get out and GAL.
DETACH.
Believe none of what she says and half of what she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
You are on moderation right now on the forum.
SO post in small frequent posts until you get off of it.
Your W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.
Knowledge is Power - Francis Bacon
She came home last night from her weekend at her grandparents. She called me on her drive home, she told me that she wasn't sure what she wanted to do. That she didn't think things were ever going to get better with us, we are too badly damaged. I just listened to her and told her that I knew what she meant.
Today while I was at work she emailed me to see if I had paid my sons daycare. I just responded that yes, I paid them when I dropped him off this morning. She responded ok thanks. I am always the one who has to initiate the make up conversations but this time I did not say anything.
She called me at work about an hour later to ask me the same question, had I paid my sons daycare. A little more small talk, and she eventually asked me how I was feeling today. I told her I was good, just real busy at work. She told me that she was still mad. I told her that there wasn't anything to be mad about. She asked if I was mad too and I told her of coarse not. I said I was a little hurt, but not mad. She kept asking me why I was hurt, I just told her I couldn't really talk about it right now while I was in the office. She said we could talk when I got home. I told her I didn't really feel ready to talk yet, that I needed to think about what to say.
When I got home I played with my son and was pleasant to her. She spent most of the night in the bedroom watching tv. I didn't go in to check on her. We ate dinner together and she went to bed shortly after.
Am I doing ok here so far? Not going to her when she is avoiding me and not talking about the blowout that we had? I have been acting very friendly towards her, trying to apply what I have read on this site so far.
I am a little bit worried. When she does talk about our marriage she sounds very negative. She tells me that she isn't sure what she wants, that she needs to think about it and talk to her counselor about it, and that she thinks enough may be enough.
Thanks. I have been out GAL. I joined the gym a few weeks ago, go there 3-4 times a week, and I have been talking and hanging out 1-2 times a week with my friends
I may have goofed up a little. I was advised by my IC that since I didn't feel like I could speak directly with my W for fear that it would turn I to her giving me a verbal beating and me needing clarity in where we stand, that perhaps I should write her a letter. So I did and I left it in the car this morning for her to find. In the letter I only talked about myself, what I needed to do to be a better husband and why I was hurt. I know that W read the letter, she is the type to call or email immediately if she intended on taking the olive branch, but I have not heard from her as of yet, I am thinking it may be too little too late in her eyes.
This gets exhausting, I don't know how some of you folks have done this for so long... It has only been a few days for me and already I feel awful and part of me is thinking that I may save a lot of sanity if I just agree to do what she wants.
So that letter I wrote didnt end up being a good idea at all. W called me tonight on her break and told me she didn't believe any of it. That I can't change. That she has heard it all before. And she pretty much said that her mind was made up but she needed to do some sould searching, and that she knew she wanted to end this but didn't know how she wanted to go about it and didnt want to make any hasty decisions while she was angry.
You are right Cadet, I should believe nothing I hear. I'm not sure if I am in denial but I just don't believe what she is saying. My best bet now is obviously to stop mentioning anything about it and just be my normal happy self. Wife goes for her IC tomorrow, I am just praying that there is someone out there, whether it be IC, a friend or family member who can talk some sense into her. Let her know that a D would cause enormous financial and emotional pain, and pain for our son. If you love your husband find a way to work it out...
I am sorry you are having a difficult time. For now, I would back off a bit and regroup. Too little too late is typical of what Walk Away wives say...it is hard for them to believe things will change. But they do, and you can start doing things differently immediately, when you have direction from a DB coach. I highly suggest you call and set up appt with coach, as they are experts in helping you turn things around. Take good care!
Yesterday on the phone she pretty much said that she was confused, that she loved me and wished we could have a future together but she didnt see that happening. Then she told me that she had a lot to think about. Then she told me that she wanted to get a divorce but had to figure out all the paperwork. When I got home last night she went to the gym for an hour and then when she came home she made dinner and we ate together and watched TV together like usual. I dont know if I am getting mixed signals here or what, or if she is really serious this time...
W called me today on her break. I got the answers that I was looking for. Not the ones that I wanted though. She asked me what I wanted and I told her that I wanted to keep the family together and try to work it our again. Then she told me that she wanted to separate. She said that she wanted one of us to move out, and for us to live separately but still remain married and committed to fixing the marriage but also fixing ourselves individually. I told her that I thought the best way to fix things was to do it together under the same roof, but she didnt want to hear any of that. She said we have tried that before and it doesnt work. I just told her that I was done trying to change her mind.
I think I get it now. She pretty much wants out of this marriage but it seems like she is trying to let me down easy.
I figure I would at least have a few weeks to a month before she actually leaves. Every time that I try to talk to her it turns into an argument with her becoming more and more convincing that she wants to leave. I now know that there is nothing that I can say, so I am done talking about it with her. I know that she still loves me deep down.
What advice would you give me at this point? Are the chances of her not actually moving? Do I just let her go and hope that one day she can se change in me and come back? I could use some help here, this totally stinks and is exhausting!!
Hi sweetie.
Welcome to divorcebusting,com --officially.
Your wife means business. She does want out of the marriage y currently have, and well, that's a good thing that she has communicated that. Because I truly believe that the tide can change for you.
I had much more and it appears to have disappeared. I will. Look for what I sent
Fitz,
Sorry to see you here, but welcome!
I have read your posts and all though I am not sure I understand the last one from DBmod I will try to give you my perspective!
This gets exhausting, I don't know how some of you folks have done this for so long..
I have been here for almost 9 months and you will find people that have been in here for years. It all comes down to a few things: How dedicated are you and do you have the stamina this craves.
(If you catch up on Labug you will discover that she just started dating her H after 2½ year)
We normally tell newcomers that this is a marathon and not a sprint. If you choose to do this you are in for the long haul. Few sitches are solved in less than a year! Read that again and try to take it in! A YEAR!
You seem to have a very amicable W and that might confuse you. I write this out of extensive personal experience since I lived with a very amicable WAW for 5 months before she moved. Amicable doesn’t by rule mean in doubt! An amicable WAW can be just as determined as an angry WAW – don’t let it fool you!
You have to realize that your actions from now on should be turned toward the fact that she will move. If she don’t then great but she properly will!
This doesn’t mean that your M can’t be saved! Lots of Ms are saved even after the D-papers are signed!
You have to realize that if you choose this road you will be given advice that seems totally ridiculous to you since DB is counterintuitive but know that the people in here wants your best and even though they don’t know you – they care! They want to help you save your M. The advice given should be followed but it is your call, your decision and your responsibility.
Here’s what I think you should do right now:
Sandis rules
Read them and apply them – at once!!!
You will find them here:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2250607&page=1They won’t save your M but they will keep you from F-ing up any further.
DR
If you haven’t read it – do it! Twice!
Please remember that you being here and all that you learn in here should NOT be shared!!
First chapter is here:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/sb_the_divorce_remedy.htmI think I get it now. She pretty much wants out of this marriage but it seems like she is trying to let me down easy.
Perhaps and perhaps not! The important part of this sentence is you thinking about WHY she wants out!
We talk a lot about 180s in here. A 180 is in short a turn in actions. If you normally do A then you start doing B. It is of outmost importance that this is not acted – you need to feel that the change is good at that the change is something you will live for the rest of your life! That feeling might change but when you start 180 you need it otherwise it will come out false and your W will see right through it. If you can think of some reasons she wants to leave and you can 180 them then do it.
Do I just let her go and hope that one day she can see change in me and come back?
Unfortunately the answer to this one is YES.
You have to let her go! You don’t stand in her way but neither do you help her! If she wants to move – she moves! If she doesn’t want to share bed – she leaves the bedroom and so on! Don’t argue and don’t help! See the point is that you can’t argue with a WAS since they act on feelings! Feelings can’t be argued! You have properly known somebody in love but have you ever convinced a person in love that they shouldn’t be? Properly not and this is the same! The WAS has to learn this by themselves and from experience. Therefore you DON’T argue but you show by actions that their decision is wrong. Since this is the way about all of this it takes time – a lot of time! It is often told that this is the hardest thing you will ever do – I believe this to be true!
Start educating yourselves by reading books. You will properly feel like starting out with books about marriage, partners, attraction and so on but since this is all about you do try to mix in a few books about personal development.
Every time that I try to talk to her it turns into an argument with her becoming more and more convincing that she wants to leave.
I couldn’t have worded this better! Every time you make her state that’s she wants out the feeling sinks one level deeper into her! That’s why pursuing and pleading is a no-go! Stop it and do stop it for good!
She will have to initiate the next talk about your M!
What advice would you give me at this point? Are the chances of her not actually moving? Do I just let her go and hope that one day she can se change in me and come back? I could use some help here, this totally stinks and is exhausting!!
I hope the above set you off. Realize that I am not a VET and hopefully they will look by you!
Chance is always there, but don’t count on it. She will properly move out but that doesn’t mean M can be saved!
I know this stinks, exhausts and hurts – trust me, I know! It will get better and easier as time passes and trust me once again when I tell you that this can be salvaged. I see hope I your situation! You have to do the same!
Start working the above right away, and then start working YOU!
Exercise and eat. This will help you feeling better and properly also your sleep
Change your looks! New clothing, new haircut, new fragrance and so on.
The two above are quite easy – here is the hard ones:
GAL (GET A LIFE): This doesn’t mean hanging out at bars! It means meet new people, take on a new hobby, do volunteer work – do things you would like to do!
FOCUS ON YOU: Your W is properly around 99% of your brain now but the case is that all this should be put in to you. This doesn’t make sense right now but see it this way. You are properly not the guy that your W fell in love with. Something changed. You can’t change your W but you can certainly change you. You do NOT change you by looking at W – makes sense? The big question is thereby: Who and how do you want to be? Find out and make it happen!
ACT-AS-IF: Act as if you are all right! Nobody wants to be around a sad, whining, crying, pleading person. So act as if you are all right!!
STUDY: Read books and read all you can in here – find the time to educate you on the WAW. Google it as well.
You will also meet the word detachment in here. I had a hard time understanding this but here is the best I have read:
WIFE:ANGRY-YOU:ANGRY : WIFE:SAD-YOU:SAD : WIFE:HAPPY-YOU:HAPPY
WIFE:ANGRY-YOU:HAPPY : WIFE:SAD-YOU:HAPPY : WIFE:HAPPY-YOU:HAPPY
Don’t let her emotions rule your emotions!!!! You are the HAPPY guy from now on!
If you were single and wanted to attract a lady – who would you be?
Detachment takes time but I do hope the above gives you the picture. You detach from her feelings!
Remember NEVER to discuss this with W. If she ask about a new shirt then just say “Well, I thought it was nice” – never ever talk about DBing, DR or anything! Read Sandis rules twice every day!
Feel free to post further questions and keep posting!
All the best!
F
Thank you for your words of advice and encouragement, much appreciated. Our problems have been going on for the better part of this year. She has threatened D or Separation on about 5 occasions now. Each time we had "the talk", which would be me convincing her to stay.
The toughest part of this has been getting through the denial and accepting that this is really happening, and then trying to convince myself that I can do something about it.
I have read Sandi's rules as well as DB and DR. I would consider myself about 1 week into this situation now. I find it difficult to know when to do what. I know that I will figure it out eventually, but for the most part this week I have been working on detaching. When we are home together I do my own thing, either playing with my son or reading.
But there have been several instances where I have not been sure if I have been misreading the signs that she is giving me, or if I have just been looking too hard for signs.
For example: all of these talks have been initiated by her. She will ask me what I want here. Most of the times I have tried to avoid having those conversations, just said something along the lines of us still needing to cool down a little before we discuss it, or saying that we should talk about this later. The one time that I did say that I loved her and wanted to give it another shot, that is the time she ripped into me about not being able to change and things never getting better and told me she wanted a separation. How should I handle this from now on when she wants to talk about it?
I have also been sleeping on the couch for the past week. Two nights ago she told me that I didn't have to do that every night, that she would take a turn, but I just shrugged it off and said I'm ok. At the time I really didn't care to talk about any such arrangement. But then last night she said that it was ok if I sleep in the bed, implying that we'd both be there. But it just seemed awkward, so I couched it again. What would be your recommendation in that situation? Should I take her up on either of those offers or should I wait until things cool down a bit?
She has also emailed me at least once a day, usually not saying anything important. For the sake of making things worse for myself I just have not been responding to her. Is that the right move?
And then today I found out that she had gotten into my cell phone account online to view the numbers that I have been calling and texting, and she had even called 2 of them and hung up on them just to see who they were. What would be her reasoning for that?
Tonight I came home from work, she was working at home all day, and when I got home I noticed that she hadn't even showered yet. She was pigging out on food all day, and I'm talking junk food, and she was in a foul mood. It almost seems that me not chasing her down like I have in the past is already gotten to her. I sometimes feel like a simple conversation could fix this. But that could also be denial on my part.
Plans for thanksgiving came up again. I asked her if she was gonna go to her uncles house and she said yeah. But then she said wait a minute what did u just say? So I repeated myself, and she said am I going to go!! You don't mean are WE going to go!! Then she went off on an expletive tirade saying that she doesn't care what she does and as far as she's concerned the holidays can kiss her u know what, and she would just assume to never leave the house again. I'm still learning this 180 stuff, so I simply responded by getting up and telling her I was going to get a pizza, and asking if she wanted anything. Trying to show her that this wasn't bothering me. (We did eat pizza together by the way afterwards).
Sorry for the rant, my head is just spinning with all that is going on. I'm confused. One minute I think everything will be ok, and we are acting like we always have, and the next I am convinced that it's the end of the line. I'm sure a lot of you have felt this way several times. I think I am handling it ok for now, it's just awful not knowing.
Hi Fitz. Sorry to see you here but it has been an excellent supportive outlet to me in my short time being here. It is nice to be given advice that doesn't involve giving up.
It does, however, involve detachment--which other posters have already mentioned. This is the key to surviving this process because right now so much is out of your control, and it is really important that you let go of those things that you cannot control (your wife in the case) and feel ok with it. The only way to accomplish this is to detach, and to focus on the things you can control (yourself). At first it feels like you are faking it, but once you start to truly detach it starts to feel pretty darn good despite the negative energy hovering around the WAS. I am still very early in this process, but this week I have started to feel the real benefits of detaching.
You have to stop trying to read into her actions--the good and the bad. She seems to be all over the place and she will drive you crazy if you go along for her ride right now. One of the best metaphors someone told me here (maybe tryingtodo180?) was to let WAS drive their bus. Don't try to get into the drivers seat, but get the heck off of it ASAP for your own sanity. And while she is going for her joy ride, work on yourself. Keep yourself busy, make positive changes for yourself (you can start with her complaints about you, but only change the ones that make sense to you). You learned your lesson about the letter, and it seems as if she was pushing you to defend yourself, beg, argue, plead, so that she could once again be justified in her decision to leave. Stop playing that game.
You will have good days and bad days, on my bad days I try to stay out of the house a lot. I will go for a walk, a drive, to the library, or throw myself into work or a hobby. I think part of the GAL is to have an outlet that allows you to change your negative feelings into a positive attitude (PMA). You have time on your side while she tries to figure out how to navigate this. Let her go crazy with the details while you focus on moving forward. It is easier said then done, but when you finally feel what detaching feels like it will make things much easier to deal with.
Hi Fitz,
I'm four months from BD and about a month or so into DBing. It [censored], so know that you're not the only one going through this. What I am learning so far:
1) There is stuff I want to change in my life.
2) If my W walks away for good, it will not be my choice - BUT, I will survive.
3) My W has her own big issues and this is causing her not to acting normally. Thus, the importance of not believing what she says or does.
4) I do have some control issues, even though I was blind to them. So, even if W is throwing the "control script" at me, there is validity there.m
5) The process will take longer than I want.
Good luck sir.
s4tk
Thank you, I appreciate all of your advice and encouragement, especially at a time when you are all dealing with your own issues as well. I've seen this coming now for months, I should've started all of this a lot sooner
This will be the first weekend for me DBing, as last weekend she was away visiting her grandparents so we were not around each other. I have planned the whole weekend out in my mind to stay busy and try to let her see that I am ok. This morning (Saturday), I plan on doing my share of the housework as usual (dishes, laundry and just picking up), then I plan on taking my dog for a nice long walk, then I will take my son out in the yard to rake leaves together for a few hours. Tonight I am going to spend some time at my friends house before finally coming home to sleep on the couch.
Tomorrow will be similar, with the exception of I will not be going to my friends but instead will find something fun to do with my son.
I will not be asking her what her plans are, I will not be inviting her to do any of these activities with me, if she asks to join me I will say of course she can.
But most important I will not ask anything about how she is feeling about the relationship. That has to remain my #1 goal from here in out, I get that part now.
Won't she miss not having me around, even if it is just to use me as a doormat? I mean the smallest things like eating dinner together or watching tv together. I fear that this could backfire and make her decision easier!!
I guess it doesn't matter, I have to do what needs to be done at this point for my own sanity.
s4tk, one of my wife's biggest complaints has been that I am controlling as well. Can I ask what you have done to try to change this about yourself?
I was always the type that when she told me she was going out I would ask her a million questions, where are you going, who's going, when will you be back, etc.
And I was always the one to ask her who she was in the phone with, or who was texting her.
This past week I have done none of that. When her phone rang I have said nothing, and when she has gone out I have simply said have fun.
These are easy changes that I feel comfortable in making.
But I am trying to come up with something bigger. Something that will let her know that I am changing from being controlling. Is there something bigger, or is it just going to be more of an accumulation of the smaller things?
Thanks mustard for your advice. I know that I have to get off her bus and just let her drive, and I'm in the process of trying to do that.
And I agree that I am driving myself crazy trying to read her signs. But at the same time I just don't want to miss one if I actually get a good sign. I'm sure you know what I mean... It's still the hope and the denial part of me I guess
I enjoyed my day today (Saturday), and things went pretty much as planned for the most part. I spent most of the day with my son, out in the yard, took him to a parade, and played in the house with him. I stayed out of my wife's hair, but was pleasant when I was around her.
While my son was napping she ran out to the store to pick a few things up. When she came home she brought the bags in, and she told me that there was more stuff in the car. And then she excitedly said, "oh yeah I forgot that when I was away last weekend I bought a king size comforter". This was kind of a big deal. You see currently we sleep in a queen size bed, but we have separate blankets because we are both blanket hogs, plus our dog sleeps in the bed. We have been talking for a long time about getting a king size comforter so that we can both sleep under it together, to be close. We had been shopping for one several times but had yet to find one that we liked that was in our price range. So why now I thought to myself? You tell me you want to separate but then you go and do this? Made me wonder exactly where was her head at? But I said nothing, I just said wow that's great, and headed out to do more yard work.
I came back in about an hour later. I was exhausted. I lay on the couch for a few and was watching tv, and she came over and gave me a hug. I hugged her back of course.
She had been pleasant for most of the day. Later on, around 6 o'clock I told her I was thinking of going out to one of my friends houses to watch the fight. She seemed upset. She said I wish you would have told me this earlier! Whatever! You know what, that's fine!! I'm going out tomorrow night anyways so yeah, you go ahead and do your thing!
Before I left I helped give my son a bath and get him to bed. Then I made dinner for us and we ate together, side by side. While we were eating I saw out of the corner of my eye that she was looking at me, for a few moments too, almost examining me. So I looked at her, right in the eyes, and I said I love you. The minute that I said it I wished that I hadn't. But she kept looking right at me and she said I love you too.
After dinner I cleaned up and left. On my way out the door she asked me when I would be home, and then she told me to be good.
Sunday was a decent day. W took our son out for the better part of the day. When they got back I played with him. I have been doing a decent job this far of applying the 37 rules and detaching. I feel like she might be kind of wondering why I haven't brought up our marriage and why I'm not begging like I always do. So that is good for me I guess. How do others respond when they feel as though their S is trying to draw them in to reverting to past behaviors?
For example, she took down a bunch of pictures of me and my son that were in the bedroom. I said nothing.
And when I was playing with my son I told him I love him, and from the other room she yells what about me?
She also continues to question every little thing that I do. For example when she got home today I was in jeans and a sweatshirt, I had been doing more yard work. And she wanted to know why I was all dressed up!! She kept asking me what I did and where I went while she was gone.
And she continuously asks me who I was with last night and what I was doing. We had some trust issues to begin with, I feel like maybe the detaching is making those worse for her. But I will continue what I have started
W went out last night. I asked nothing. When I got home today from work I got cornered into another conversation with her. I said as little as possible. She did mention that she has noticed changes in the way I behave lately. She asked about thanksgiving. We are invited to both family's. We had been planning on going to mine, and then to hers for Christmas. She told me that she wanted to go to her uncles for thanksgiving. I told her I wanted to stick to the original plan and take our son to my family's house. I didn't mention her coming or not. She asked if it would be weird if I showed up and she wasn't there. I just said no not at all, why would it be?
I kinda got another verbal thrashing as she led the conversation towards what is going on with us right now. I just said I have told you how I felt and haven't changed my mind. Then I had to listen to her go on for half an hour about how I could never change and I was an evil person. I didn't argue or defend myself.
She also mentioned last night that she doesnt ever want to get divorced. That she would stay married for the rest of her life and not care, it's just a piece of paper to her. I said but yeah what about moving on with your life? She told me that she has no interest in meeting anyone new and the she has no plans to move on with anything.
She is upset about breaking up the family, she mentioned that. I just told her she shouldnt worry about that and that things would work out fine. She is constantly telling me that she doesnt want me to be alone. I told her not to wory about me at all, just worry about herself. I feel like these fears are her own, but she tries to project them onto me.
She mentioned last night when we spoke that we haven't even been talking lately, and she is curious as to what I am up to. Should I just keep her guessing, and not share much into with her? She mentioned that she wanted to start talking again. I don't know how I feel about that. Every time we talk the conversation goes where I don't want it to go. I feel like I'm not ready.
I can see that she truly is confused. I want her to be able to make this decision on her own. If we talk it will lead to more of me saying what can change, and that things can work. Part of me feels like she needs to hear that stuff from me. But I also know that it isnt the right thing to do.
Today was the first day since this whole mess started that W didn't email me or call me...
She also mentioned last night that she doesnt ever want to get divorced.
That's good, you've got plenty of time for your DB'ing.
She is upset about breaking up the family, she mentioned that. I just told her she shouldnt worry about that and that things would work out fine. She is constantly telling me that she doesnt want me to be alone. I told her not to wory about me at all, just worry about herself. I feel like these fears are her own, but she tries to project them onto me.
Your responses to her statements were good validation. Don't worry about whether she's projecting or whatever, don't try to figure out what she's doing. Remember Sandi's tip about not believing anything they say. The WAS is confused and in turmoil inside and a lot of conflicting statements will come from the WAS during that turmoil.
She mentioned last night when we spoke that we haven't even been talking lately, and she is curious as to what I am up to. Should I just keep her guessing, and not share much into with her?
It's OK to be mysterious, but don't lie and don't avoid. If she asks specific questions then answer them. Just don't offer the info up on your own.
She mentioned that she wanted to start talking again. I don't know how I feel about that. Every time we talk the conversation goes where I don't want it to go.
Let HER talk and YOU listen. Let her take the conversation wherever she wants to take it. Don't try to direct or control it, just be the greatest listener ever. Listen and validate. Makes lots of eye contact. Nod. Ask clarification questions. Don't agree/ disagree/ beg/ plead/ negotiate/ explain/ defend. Just seek to understand, and say things like "I hear you saying X, Y, Z, how did that make you feel?" and "I understand why you feel that way".
If we talk it will lead to more of me saying what can change, and that things can work.
DON'T SAY THAT!! When you say things like that you're saying "your feelings don't matter, this is stuff that can be easily fixed." DON'T try to fix things! Just listen and validate. That's it. That's what she wants, she wants to be heard and understood.
Part of me feels like she needs to hear that stuff from me.
Remember Sandi's tip about showing the WAS ACTIONS. Words don't mean anything. Also remember that DB'ing is often counterintuitive, your mind is telling you to explain and reason but that is WRONG. It doesn't work.
Thanks. Last night when she got home from work she asked if I had spoken to my family about Thanksgiving. I told her that I had, and I had told them that I was coming with my son and that I wasnt sure if W was coming with me. I told her that she is still more than welcome to come.
I don't know if I shot myself in the foot with what I said next. She asked me if I mentioned anything to my mother about the problems we were having. I told her yeah I had mentioned a little bit. She asked what my mother had said, and I told her that my mother told me I had to do what makes me happy, and she just asked me one simple question, Could I ever love my wife again.
W asked what I answered, I was very vague to her and I just said that was a question that I guess I'd really have to think about. She went off on a mini-tangent, saying that love wasn't the problem. Of course she still loved me, if she didnt then this wouldn't be so hard for her. It's hard either way, trying to fix the marriage, or leaving because she still loves me.
This morning when I got to work, like a fool I checked the phone bill online, and I noticed that she had called a divorce lawyer for the first time this morning. uh-oh
Oh man I walked in the front door tonight and she was immediately on my case. She wanted to know who I was talking to on the phone and what about. I was vague with my answer but she went off on another tirade. This time instead of saying that she was confused about what she wants she came right out and told me that she didn't want this relationship anymore. I just said thanks for finally letting me know. She said that she wants to move but doesn't want to divorce, who knows if we will miss each other and want to get back together. I just responded that if that's what she wants it's fine with me. She started to go on about how she knows I want to stay together and she knows I don't want this. I just told her to stop assuming that she knows what I want, and that her behavior towards me is becoming unacceptable. I told her she was making me numb to this whole situation by the way she's acting.
Man, this is one of those days when I really do want to throw in the towel. I definitely have a WAW on my hands and I can see that there's nothing that I can do to change her mind. I've got to let her go and figure this out on her own. I have to continue to detach and GAL. I was doing so well with that last week but the past few days I have been slipping.
At this point, I don't even know of I want a wife who obviously wants out and doesn't want me back. I think the hardest part of all of this for me right now is losing my best friend
Thanksgiving was a tough day. I took my son and went to my family's house. W called around 3 while I was there and asked if her makeup was in the car. I went and checked and told her that it was. She flipped out on me and said "great, now I can't go to my family's house even if I wanted to!! I hope you enjoy your holiday!!" I told her she had makeup at home and yes she could still go and to stop looking for reasons to get mad at me. And that's exactly what she was doing, looking for reasons to be mad at me.
I got home around 8 and carried my son in, he fell asleep on the ride home. She was sitting there eating a turkey dinner that her aunt had brought her. She hadn't gone out. I handed my son to her, she kissed him and told him she missed him today. Then she said I missed both of you guys today. I told her I missed her too.
She went to lay in the bed with our son so he could go to sleep. She had left her email open and I saw that she had emailed a realtor today saying that she was looking for a 2 bedroom house for her and her son soon.
Any tender moment that I thought I had had when she told me she missed me was gone, and it was right back to how it has been for the past 3 weeks.
I'm hurting. Does she feel the same way? How can she not?
That rule about believing nothing I hear and less than half of what I see is a good one. I try to always remember that one. But that email to the realtor sure did look believable to me.
Day after Thanksgiving. I'm in the office today. Today is the first day in a few weeks where I am feeling extremely weak, like I want to talk to her tonight. I won't actually do it, I know it wouldn't do me any good, but that's just where my minds at.
I guess the holidays are tough. I didnt think I would feel this way after almost 2 weeks of starting to try to detach and GAL.
Fitz,
This entire crazy rollercoaster ride is a terrible thing, isn't it!? My bomb was dropped about 13 months ago and the highs and lows are so hard.
I have made numerous 180s, PMA and working on detaching. H is still in house, but mentioned separation/divorce and is cool, workaholic. I empathise with you and all other LBS on here!
Yes this roller coaster ride is terrible. It continued for me yesterday. I was at work and W called me and asked if I had plans for tonight. I told her I didn't. She asked if I wanted to go out to dinner with her and our son, she said she thought I would be fun. I said sure, that sounds great.
When I got home from work our son was napping. She started talking to me, and she was all over the place with the things she was saying. First she asked why we couldn't just meet with a mediator instead of hiring lawyers. I just told her that I didn't care to meet with either. Then she asked me why I stopped wearing my wedding ring. I told her that I knew she had taken it and put it somewhere when I had taken it off one day, and I don't know where she put it. More talk from her about separating. She asked me why I wouldn't be the one to leave. I just told her that this wasn't my idea and I want to stay in my home. If she wants to leave that's her choice. More talk from her about how things have just gotten so awful between us, about how the trust was gone. She geared up a lot talking about how hard this whole year had been since she had lost her mother and then all of the issues that we had been having. I just listened and validated, although inside I wanted to argue and defend. She told me that she will never be the same person that she was. Told me she loves me and wishes we could have a future together but she didn't see any way that was possible.
Finally she asked me what my thoughts were. I tried to be as honest with her as I could without sounding like I was begging or chasing her. I just told her that I have unfinished emotional business with her and that I don't want to leave and then regret my decision without trying first. That I still believed in love and that I didn't see us so much as having several problems, but more like having one big problem that started 6 months ago that we never really got over. She asked me what I wanted to do and I told her that I wanted to give it one last shot.
Part of me felt like I got through to her a little. But part of me also felt like what I said went in one ear and out the other and that she didn't care to hear anything that I had to say.
The three of us went to dinner. We had a pleasant time, mostly just enjoying watching our son.
After dinner we came home and I have my son a bath and put him to bed. She had to go to her grandparents house down the street to help her grandmother get her grandfather into bed (he's disabled and confused). She was gone for about an hour, she had called me and told me that they were having trouble getting him to cooperate.
I was exhausted at that point but wanted to stay awake to see her when she got home. I felt like we may have been building a little bit today, we had talked and spent more time together than we had in the previous month combined, and I didn't want to fall asleep and miss anything just in case.
When she got home she was exhausted too. She told me about her grandparents, I just listened.
We got ready for sleep, she told me that it's ok if I sleep in the bed too (I've been on the couch for weeks now). I hugged her and told her that separated people don't sleep in the same bed. She just looked at me. I said I know this isn't going to be easy, and I know I'm not going to be just given back the husband privileges that I had, but I look forward to earning them.
Lesson learned from last night I guess. It was foolish of me to think that she might be coming around so quickly. Today she is back to being distant and disinterested.
She has asked me a few times if I am going out tonight, and made comments like"wow you've gone out every Saturday for the past month huh?". Not sure what she is insinuating.
But other than that I'm not getting any attention. Back to practicing my DBing. Today could be a long day.
I have a question for others out there. Is it possible that she wants me to chase her, she wants me to talk to her? I'm not going to, but in the past that is what I always did and what she always expected. But sometimes I wonder if by not doing that am I making things worse? Sometimes I think that my "new" reactions to the situation are causing her reactions. Like maybe that is the reason she is being so distant, because I'm not making myself available to her as I have in the past. Just kinda confused right now...
I have a question for others out there. Is it possible that she wants me to chase her, she wants me to talk to her? I'm not going to, but in the past that is what I always did and what she always expected. But sometimes I wonder if by not doing that am I making things worse? Sometimes I think that my "new" reactions to the situation are causing her reactions. Like maybe that is the reason she is being so distant, because I'm not making myself available to her as I have in the past. Just kinda confused right now...
This is possible but then you'd be pursuing and she may push back and then how would you feel about that? See, it is kind of like a cat and mouse game right now. She sees you maybe drifting away some and wants to make sure you are still hanging around, so she tosses you a few crumbs to see if you'll bite.
I'd recommend you stick to what you are doing. You seem to be saying and doing all the right things, setting firm boundaries, validating, etc. So time will tell. Also, if you hope to make it work, continue setting those boundaries, but be careful not to shut any doors. What I mean by that is to avoid statements like "one more try". These things have a tendency of solidifying things in peoples minds and if you really hope to reconcile, you need to avoid that sort of thing.
Some of her statements sound like she is perhaps having second thoughts. Keep on your path. Stick to your boundaries and stay in the home. And see where things lead.
I think one thing you can be sure of is that what you did in the past has not worked.
Thank you both for your input I appreciate it.
She had IC today, I didn't really ask how it went.
She did bring up our relationship again, she said she'd prefer to separate but isn't closing the door on trying again. Just said she wasn't ready to make a decision. She did come over and give me a hug also, and when I left the house to go grocery shopping she asked me if that was really where I was going, and if I was sure that I wasn't going to meet some girl. I just responded I'm a married man. It was one of those awkward days though, where we both tried our best to stay away from one another
One thing that I may have failed to mention was that when our problems originally began, she had said that she had her mind made up an separation was the only way that this marriage has a chance. I had told her at that time, before I was DBing, GAL, etc, that I would not separate and I would rather divorce and move on with my life if it came to that. I'm not sure I didn't blow this at the beginning by saying that. Since that time when she has mentioned separating I have just told her that is not what I want, I have not said that I'd rather divorce.
Fritz - I don't think it is uncommon for an emotional trauma like the death of a parent to trigger other crisis like that you are experiencing with your marriage. If your wife and her mother were close and now that person is gone, she may feel abandoned and doesn't trust that you can fill that void. She may also be feeling her own sense of mortality and need to go and LIVE LIFE!
You made comments previously about your lack of trust, by questioning where she is going and who she is talking to. Why is this a problem? Did something happen in the past to lead you to distrust her? The fact that she is doing the same to you, is that new or was the distrust mutual?
Marriage problems usually don't just crop up. There is usually an underlying cause and both parties are usually at fault. I've seen a lot of your comments about what you wife is doing, what she is saying, how she is behaving, etc. That is all good to know as it provides context. But I don't think you've shared much about the marital dynamics at play prior to the bomb. Or your role in getting to that point.
That is not to say that you have to necessarily tell us. But, it is an area that you need to explore within yourself. Because, if you want to right this ship, you have to understand where and how things went wrong. And, you have to make permanent adjustments to your own behavior if you have a hope of repairing your marriage.
As I mentioned in an earlier post, you seem to be doing and saying all the right things but I have to wonder if there isn't a part of you that wants out. I say this only because you seemed very quick to call it a day early after bomb day. Maybe I am misreading but that is how it comes across to me.
Anyway, these are all things you need to explore within yourself. Continue to DB, seek guidance from others, do your 180's but most importantly, work on yourself.
2thepoint, thanks again for your reply, a lot of the stuff that you wrote really hits the nail on the head.
My wife and her mom were very close. It was a tough situation, her mom was only 53 and passed away about 5 weeks after her diagnosis. I was young when I lost my mom too, so I kinda knew how this was really going to affect my wife, the pain an grief that she was going to go through. Not that I knew exactly but I could understand. At that time I did the best that I could do as her husband and best friend. I was her shoulder to cry on. I listened. I talked to her. She would tell me what a great husband I was being and how much she appreciated how supportive and helpful I was while she was going through this. It broke my heart to see her so sad. I would do things at the time, like buy her flowers, plan a night away, spontaneous gifts etc, that at the time I thought would cheer her up. But I realized that regardless of how hard I tried that there was nothing I could do to help her get over the grief. All I could really do was be there for her when she needed me. It has been hard for her.
The distrust has always been there. Baggage from past relationships. There has never been any cheating.
The incident that caused our marital problems happened back in April. I spent the weekend with some old college friends who were in town. We had a great time. When we get together we have fun, and sometimes act like immature college guys, reliving our glory days. We play pranks on each other, and one of my friends thought that it would be funny to give my phone number to an escort service. At the time it was nothing more than a funny joke between friends. Nothing happened. But it was not so funny when my wife went looking through my cell phone bill and googled the phone number. I explained to her what happened. She didn't believe me. I did everything that she asked me to do to prove that I was telling her the truth. I called my friend with her listening in on the other end so she could hear him tell the story. I changed my cell phone number per her request. I let her put a GPS on my cell phone so that she knew exactly where I was at all times. But everything I did wasn't enough. I don't know what else I can do to right that situation?
We have had several big arguments since then, and every time that incident comes up. So I can confidently say that is how I contributed to this mess. The way that the arguments always go, she tells me she wants a divorce, and I pursue and tell her I love her until everything is ok again.
As far as me not being sure that I still want to be in the marriage, that is not the case. I just want all of the problems to stop. I'm trying a different approach here.
It's frustrating. I feel like I can't get through to her anymore.
The distrust has always been there. Baggage from past relationships.
Seems odd that distrust has "always been there." It's not an ideal way to begin a marriage. Although it sounds like you have done what you needed to do to try to remedy the situation, clearly the college prank may have severely damaged your already fragile marriage.
I apologize if I sound judgmental. That is really not my intent. However, if things don't work out, (and they may not) there is a significant learning opportunity here. Do you know what it is?
It's frustrating. I feel like I can't get through to her anymore.
OK, then stop trying to get through to her. It is fruitless at this point, so stop it. I think you mentioned in an earlier post that your wife has said you are controlling. Do you see how "getting through to her" is controlling by its very nature? Think about other areas in your day to day interactions that can also be viewed as controlling. Those are the 180's that really need your attention.
My wife had also said I was controlling. At first I couldn't see it. But after a lot of reflection I realized that even helping her make decisions without her asking was a form of control. She viewed it as me believing she was incapable of making her own decisions. And she resented it, deeply.
Fitz, the best thing you can do is work on you at this point. Dig deep, where you are most vulnerable, make that your focus. Stop trying to get through to your wife. She'll come around if and when she is ready and only on her terms, not yours.
I know the situation really stinks but it is your reality so you need to deal with it. I hope this makes sense.
Hang in there!
Thanks for the feedback, much appreciated. There are several lessons learned throughout the course of the marriage and with the mistakes that I have made. From the trust, to the lack of communication. I could go on.
I know that I am not getting through to her and I am trying my hardest to stop trying to. I came see that it is not getting me anywhere and that she will come around when/if she is ready. I'm just trying to work on my patience, and tryin to focus on myself for now
I had a good day today as far as trying to get the DBing back on track. I had a family party this morning, it had been planned for about 2 months so W was originally invited. I hadn't mentioned anything about it to her, not sure if she wanted to go or not. She ended up coming. It was about a 45 minute ride, we didn't talk much, I didn't initiate much conversation with her but was polite if she did.
At the party with my family things were good. At one point W asked me if they all know what is going on with us. I asked her why, does she feel like anyone is treating her any different? She said no but she just wanted to know. I told her that I talk to my sister sometimes, just to have someone to talk to. W said yes, she remembered that my sister had asked me if I could ever fall back in love with W and I had told her no. I asked her where she got that from, I had never said that. I just said that my sister is very non-judgemental, and she understands that relationships are tough and people have hard times every now and then. With that W gave me a hug.
When we arrived home we cleaned the house and just kind of hung around.
I felt more comfortable today not bringing up our marriage. I felt comfortable not asking her who called or texted her when her phone rang. I remembered what was written above, that what I have done in the past hasn't worked, so just stop.
I think that I am getting through the denial phase of thinking that this can't really be happening and will just go away. I was reading some other threads today and the one thing that I had seen people writing over and over again was to never underestimate the seriousness of a WAS. I get that now, and I won't.
I was reading some other threads today and the one thing that I had seen people writing over and over again was to never underestimate the seriousness of a WAS.
Right! Because, although the bomb seemed to come from out of left field and totally unexpected, the WAS has been plotting their escape for a very long time. And when they finally muster the courage to drop the bomb, in their mind, there is no turning back.
Good that you recognize this.
Today I confirmed that W went to meet with a divorce lawyer. I also know that she has been looking for housing to rent over the past week. Does it usually happen this fast?
Some days I feel like she is thinking about wanting to give it another shot, but then stuff like this happens to show how serious she is!
I remember a thread posted as fast train to divorceville or something like that. Goes to show you that you're not alone. And yes it can be this fast.
Fitz, remember, this is her journey. Allow her to continue on her journey. If this is the path she wants to take then move aside. DB is about you working on yourself so that you can be a better partner, father, son, etc.
Take care of yourself and if you are, DON'T SNOOP!!
I admit that I have snooped and I know I need to stop that. When this all started I thought in my head that the only reason we could possibly be going through this was because there was an OM, so I looked for evidence. I found none and realized it was all happening because of the day to day problems we were having.
I have cut out the snooping lately. But I will come home and see that she has divorce papers, or notes from talking with a divorce lawyer, sitting right on the desk. It's almost as if she wants me to see them. If that is the case then I find that rather cruel on her part to rub my face in it.
I have been trying my best to detach. Most days I feel as though I am doing a good job. But then I feel like she starts to pursue me. She will email me random things daily, and her emails always start with "hey babe". She will question everything that I do. She will cook dinner (which she has never done) and insist that we eat together. Must just be part of the cat and mouse game to make sure that she is keeping me interested just in case.
One thing that she said to me last night, she asked if I had spoken to a lawyer yet. I said no why would I. Then she went on to tell me that she doesn't care to get divorced, that it is too much of a hassle. I just responded by saying then what are our options, live together in misery or separate? She said she'd prefer to separate but wasn't sure what I wanted. I said that I thought I made myself clear when we talked 2 weeks ago? And she said that she hasn't ruled out us staying together.
It's things like this that drive me crazy! She seems to be saying this exact same thing on a daily basis. I don't take the bait but feel like she wants to talk about it, wants me to beg. I don't know, I just find this to be the hardest part for me lately.
So you need to get off the rollercoaster. They will say one thing then immediately change their mind.
They will forget they said x and say y instead.
This is perfectly script. The challenge is for you to become the best Fritz possible. GAL, 180.
Make us a list of things to improve about you
Fitz,
We seem to be in similiar situations, in that, We have been married a similiar amount of time, and both have young children.
I feel for you man. I wouldn't wish this upon my worst enemy.
I'm currently in the same stage as you, W wants (is basically separated) her space. I'm doing my best to detach, and GAL, and have also been noticing that my w is slightly pursuing.
Some advice from Accuray. He said to KNOW that this kind of behavior will happen. To expect it, and know how to face it. I know this isn't easy to deal with, but you have to put a face on. You have to pretend that everything is ok. (cry later... in the car if you must, that's what I had to do this morning)
I'm rooting for you man. Keep up the good work.
Some advice from Accuray. He said to KNOW that this kind of behavior will happen. To expect it, and know how to face it. I know this isn't easy to deal with, but you have to put a face on. You have to pretend that everything is ok. (cry later... in the car if you must, that's what I had to do this morning)
Thanks cc. I read your thread too and I wish you the best as well. I am now expecting this type of behavior, and I am learning how to deal with it better. Keep my happiness level up no matter what. It definately is tough when W changes back to being interested and offers that glimmer of hope. I think with Thanksgiving last week, it really affected me more than I thought it would. I had been making some good progress with my DBing for a few weeks up to that point and was starting to feel better, but us not being together that day, and me being with my son while she was alone, I just felt awful. I try to just tell myself that it was her choice for it to be that way
So you need to get off the rollercoaster. They will say one thing then immediately change their mind.
They will forget they said x and say y instead.
This is perfectly script. The challenge is for you to become the best Fritz possible. GAL, 180.
Make us a list of things to improve about you
Thanks for the reply kate. I realize that I have to become the best guy possible. I'm still slightly in the denial/shock phase so it all needs to start with me getting my head straight. I need to accept that my marriage is over and that it was not my choice. I need to play the hand I was dealt. Speand time without my wife. GAL which will include spending more 1 on 1 time with my son, going to the gym 3 mornings a week, making plans with friends and family on the weekends to get out of the house. I need to get off of the rollercoaster and keep my mood happy regardless of her ups and downs. Let her walk away and don't question where she is or what she is doing or how she is feeling.
The list could go on and on but that is my start, I have to try to stick to these things and take it one day at a time
It just happened again. W called me on her break. She just wanted to let me know that she wasn't planning on "blindsiding" me. She said that whatever happens she wants to work together. I told her that was good. She went on to tell me that this was her breaking point and that she didnt know what she wanted to do. I agreed and told her that we both need more time to think it through. She told me once again that she still loved me and wished we could have a future together. I just told her that I understood and that if she felt like she had to leave then I wouldn't stop her. She told me to stop leaving all of the decisions up to her. I just replied that this was not my idea and I had already let her know what I wanted. She asked if That was still what I want (stay together), and I said of course, I took a vow and I'm invested and committed to my family, but I'm also trying to work on myself at the same time. She told me how impossible it would be to work this out, and how we have tried so many times and gotten the same results. I just told her that sometimes you get a wake-up call and that you learn from your past failure, and anything is possible if 2 people want it. She went on to talk more doubt and negativity. I was sorry that I had gotten in this conversation with her, but at the same time there has been some tension between us the past day or so, so someting needed to be said. She went on about how she just doesnt know, and I told her that we should just take some time to think about it.
I do feel like she was pursuing me a little, but I also expected this and tried to stay off of her rollercoaster the best that I could.
One of her big points that she was trying to get across to me was that she wanted me to like her friends and hang out with them more and not have a problem with her going out with them. I tild her that I have always gone out with them when I was invited and I have always gotten along great with them. I told her over the past 3 weeks she has gone out with them about 5 times and I havent said anything to her negatively about it.
I think another problem may be that she has badmouthed me so much to her friends that she would have a hard time going back to them now and telling them that she has decided to give it another try with me. But that is not my problem, it is hers
Stop trying to mindread her. You don't know why she's doing what she's doing any more than she is. You have to stop agreeing to what she's saying and start doing what you want to do for a change.
"She said that whatever happens she wants to work together."
When she says stuff like this, you should say that while that's what she wants, you're still deciding what to do for yourself.
Sorry Fitz...autocorrect on your name lmao!!
I like the list of things you are doing.
Try not to get drawn into the conversations too much. They can change their minds at warp speed right now. My H constantly speaks of our future together and my life on my own all in one breath. I actually told him to stop making plans that involved us.
Decide what you want to do. If you say you need time as well, then time it is. The time and space we allot for the WAS is for the LBS as well. One day,you will find you are breathing again.
Last night W told me she has been thinking a lot about what I said and she thinks I might be right. Here we go again! I just tried to remind myself that more than likely she's back on her roller coaster. She wanted to talk when she got home she said, but when she actually came home we didn't talk. I made myself available in case she wanted to say anything to me but she didn't.
This morning I was leaving for work and she was mad as a hornet. I had decided that I was going to start driving my car again (usually I drove her old car and she drove my newer car). She was yelling at me wanting to know why all of a sudden I want to take that car, and saying she has a bunch of stuff in there etc and she wishes I'd stop switching cars. I just said is it really that big of a deal? If you need to get anything out of the car you can go ahead.
I had a holiday party at my work this evening so I was an hour or so late getting home. I didn't hear from W all day. But then she texted me and wrote "tell your lawyer... Ooops I mean your coworkers that I said hi.
So she seems a little paranoid that I am out meeting divorce lawyers. Man, I feel kinda bad for her she definitely is going through something in her head here big time. I don't really get it but I'm just going to keep trying to work on myself and let her do it say what she wants.
Lat night was a rought one. Probably the worst night we have had since this started.
W and I started talking about money. The conversation led to her telling me that I should be the one to move out. Then it went on with her telling me that we will have 50/50 custody of our son.
I tried to keep my cool and kept telling her to stop making decisions for me about anything, that I can worry about myself.
She told me once again that she was done with this marriage, that every other aspect of her life makes her happy, and it is the marriage that makes her so miserable. I snapped a little, told her where the door was and that she could leave any time she wanted to. I told her that I was done also and wasn't going to play this game with her anymore and let her leave my life in limbo while she tries to figure this out.
I don't know if I see this getting better at this point. Could last night have been the final straw for her? SHe really let me have it. Or should this be expected as part of the process?
I said a lot of things in the heat of the moment that I'm not so sure that I ahould have
I didn't hear from W all day today, didn't really expect to.
She came home from work at around 9, said to me very angrily "how was our sons teacher conference that you scheduled when you knew I couldn't go"?
She is just plain angry. Looking for things to be upset about. After she said that she walked away and went to bed, I didn't try to say anything to her I just left her alone.
Fitz I would not worry about your W's outbursts. I know it is hard to ignore but you have to disengage emotionally from her right now. She is confused and looking for justification for her decision to ditch you and the marriage. Don't give it to her. Stick to your guns on not moving out. Keep your cool but set boundaries. Tell her something like, "I'm happy to talk to you about whatever, but if you are going to scream and be ugly, then the conversation will end.". And hold to that!
You really do need to keep your cool. She is provoking you because she needs to be certain that you are the cause of all her unhappiness. Don't fall for it. Show her a happy and content Fitz as much as possible. Oh, and if you haven't yet consulted a lawyer, do so soon.
Thanks for the advice. I took a few days to kind of cool off and regroup. Since Friday W has really started warming up to me, but for some reason I am just not buying into it.
On Friday night I was making dinner and she asked if I was making it for both of us. I told her sure, help yourself. She made a comment along the lines of "I know you hate me", to which I didnt respond. Later on that night I was in the basement doing some stuff and she came down several times to check on me and see what I was doing.
On Saturday she came with me to my family Xmas party. On the way to the party she was talking alot about the future... together. SHe was asking what I want for Xmas, she was asking me if I was talking to other women, she was hugging me, asking what my plans for tomorrow were and if I wanted to spend the day decorating the house and then make a nice dinner together. She ended the night by telling me that she really misses me.
Then on Sunday it was more of the same. Her hugging, telling me she misses me, asking if I will sleep in the bed with her etc.
These past few days have been really good, but for me they do not erase the nightmare of the past month. I am almost expecting things to get bad again and for her rollercoaster to continue.
I will continue with the DBing and GAL and following the 37 rules, I am feeling better and seeing progress. My question to others is how do you know when her actions are no longer part of the rollercoaster and when it is time to try again? I do not want to miss the opportunity if it is presenting itself, but at the same time I am hesitant to believe it?
I am almost expecting things to get bad again and for her rollercoaster to continue.
Well you're certainly seeing some good signs from her, but you are right to be cautious.
I will continue with the DBing and GAL and following the 37 rules, I am feeling better and seeing progress. My question to others is how do you know when her actions are no longer part of the rollercoaster and when it is time to try again?
When she says she is committed to working on the M. If/ when she says that, then tell her what your boundaries are for reconciling. One should be that she is to break off all contact with any OM. I don't know if there is an OM or not, I see you mentioned in your first post that there was an old BF she was in contact with, if she's still in contact it has got to stop even if she says they're just friends. Another boundary might be that she needs to agree to MC, it sounds like you didn't have much luck in MC before but that could be because A) you had a poor C and/ or B) your W wasn't committed to it. There are some tips in DR in how to find a good solutions-based MC. Also see if Retrouvaille is available in your area, it is a fantastic program that will give you excellent communication tools. MrBond usually suggests that the LBS encourage the WAS to set up MC or RetroV and I think that's a good idea because it shows if they're really committed or not.
I do not want to miss the opportunity if it is presenting itself, but at the same time I am hesitant to believe it?
I'm skeptical too, it seems far too soon for your W to come out of the fog. But perhaps she's not a full-blown WAS but was just angry over her belief that you were having an A (even though you weren't) and was lashing out over it. Regardless, don't try to "go back to normal". Clearly the M wasn't working, so when she's willing to try, you've got to change the dynamics and build a NEW relationship with her.
I don't think that there is any OM in the picture. I think that what she did in the past was more for revenge for what she thought that I had done.
I believe she is a full-blown WAS. But I also think that she suffers from depression as well and takes all of her problems out on me since I am closest to her.
Prior to BD on 11/14 (W wants D), there were several grenades thrown my way over the course of the previous 6 months (her threatening D), which were always diffused after a few days. what happened on 11/14 with BD was when I opened my eyes that things needed to change.
Her actions are still showing that she is having a change of heart. I came home last night from work and she greeted me with a big hug and told me that she is glad I am home and she missed me. But still nothing has been said concerning us separating (she went from wanting D to S).
Her actions are now showing me one thing, but I have admitted that I have snooped through her emails (which I stopped doing) and saw that she was emailing looking for an apartment. She also told me the other day that she has consulted with a lawyer to see what her rights were, and she told me that the question that she had for the lawyer was if she leaves the house would that be considered her abandoning her child.
For the past few days I have been receptive to her change in attitude without going overboard. I hug her back when she hugs me, I have been conversating with her when she talks to me, but I have not been initiating anything and have not been showering her with the I love yous and I miss yous that she has. I am very skeptical here as to what she is thinking/feeling and if she has some type of motive behind all of this
Her actions are still showing that she is having a change of heart. I came home last night from work and she greeted me with a big hug and told me that she is glad I am home and she missed me. But still nothing has been said concerning us separating (she went from wanting D to S).
I read back through your posts and I don't think she's having a change of heart at all. It reminds me a lot of my sitch just before W left.
Her actions are now showing me one thing, but I have admitted that I have snooped through her emails (which I stopped doing) and saw that she was emailing looking for an apartment.
My W did something similar- once she started looking for her own place she really cranked up the charm. By all appearances it seemed like we were doing better together than we had in months. But on the few times I asked her about her search she made it clear it was still full steam ahead with S.
She also told me the other day that she has consulted with a lawyer to see what her rights were, and she told me that the question that she had for the lawyer was if she leaves the house would that be considered her abandoning her child.
My W did the exact same thing before leaving for the same reason.
I am very skeptical here as to what she is thinking/feeling and if she has some type of motive behind all of this
There's probably no motive, if she's like my W she probably just sees the "light and the end of the tunnel" (solidifying her plans to leave) and feels like the pressure is being lifted since she'll be out soon.
Thanks for the feedback A.S. Your answers above describe exactly how I have been feeling, I was just having trouble putting it into words.
I do not want to put any pressure on her that is the reason that I will not bring the M up and will instead just wait to see if she says anything.
I just don't understand why all of the sudden affection if she still plans on leaving. I understand keeping the peace and seeing a light at the end of the tunnel, but the things she is saying and all the affection are going overboard on her end if this is her plan.
Another thing that I havent mentioned is that my W has no one to talk to. She does not have many close friends and her family is emotionally cold. She goes to IC once a week, and they just increased her depression meds the other day. I feel like I am her only real friend
I do not want to put any pressure on her that is the reason that I will not bring the M up and will instead just wait to see if she says anything.
Good, that's the right approach. It's very difficult, you really have to fight the urge not to say something or ask her what her plans are; but it's best not to ask because asking is pressure.
I just don't understand why all of the sudden affection if she still plans on leaving. I understand keeping the peace and seeing a light at the end of the tunnel, but the things she is saying and all the affection are going overboard on her end if this is her plan.
Well, there's a lot going on inside the WAS's head. They may seem very calm and collected on the outside, but they are confused and in turmoil inside. They're not sure they're doing the "right" thing in breaking up the M. Often they'll try to keep the LBS on the hook as plan B in case their new, exciting, fantastic life adventure without their spouse turns out to be not so great after all. So they'll do just enough to lead the LBS along. And as long as the LBS says things like "I'll always wait for you" then the WAS will be content to cake-eat. It's often said around here that the WAS had to learn to miss the LBS, and usually that doesn't happen until the LBS gets fed up and decides they're done waiting. It's the ultimate irony, but as long as the LBS waits the WAS isn't interested, but when the LBS finally well and truly moves on then THAT is when the WAS might look back. That's why we stress giving the WAS time and space and getting a life for yourself. It's also why there are Sandi's rules about never bringing up M talks, never following the spouse around, being mysterious, etc. It's what works, not just for possibly bringing the WAS back, but for giving the LBS the tools they need to feel better about themselves and get on with living life whether with or without their spouse.
You are exactly right. The more life I get lately the more interested she becomes in me. Last night when she came home from work she needed help moving some boxes in from her car. Over the past few weeks she has been moving all of her "important" stuff (paperwork, pictures etc) to her grandparents basement to keep it away from me. She decided yesterday that she wanted to move it all back. "This is my home and my stuff belongs here" is what she said.
Today I didn't hear from her until she called me on my way home from work. She invited me to her fathers house for dinner. I declined, said I'm just going to go home and relax. When she arrived home from dinner I wasn't there, I had gone out to do a few errands.
She also told me tonight that she got a baby sitter for Saturday so her and I could go to the movies since we haven't been out together in a long time. I told her that sounds great.
I am moving forward with working and worrying about myself. Even though part of me still wants to try to talk to her about the M I will not do so. No matter how much it is driving me nuts not knowing what's going on in her mind
For the past few days your posts have all been about your wife doing this and doing that. You got a bad case of the "She...She" 's.
Consider posting only about FItz's progress. Leave her out of your posts. Leave out the marriage for the time being. Just enough for you to recollect yourself from all this. She has you bouncing back and forth and you are hanging on every little bit of hope she is offering you. Focus on yourself.
What have you been doing for YOU! Homework: Post only about your GALs!!