I found out about 12 weeks ago my wife was having an affair, EA & PA. At first I was shocked, devastated, thought it was all my fault. And did everything I thought I should, but later after researching sites like this one, I realized I made some big mistakes. I got angry, threatened to leave, divorce, pressured her to make up her mind, etc. It got so bad, she ended up leaving for one week to think things over. When she got back, she said she doesn't think we can work things out. I am reasonably sure the affair is still going on. The other guy is married and has two children 8 & 12. I contacted his wife to let her know what was going on. She plans on divorcing because she said her marriage was bad for the last 3 years. My wife said she needs more time to think. I said only if she stops the affair, NC. She hasn't done that. So I filed for divorce. She was served on Halloween. Since then I have totally backed off. She has said nothing and hasn't even acknowledged getting served.
I'm not sure what to do. I can't stand being in this situation. But I prefer to try and work things out with my wife. But I see effort from her. And now I wonder if I still want to be with her. Married 12 years, three kids 11, 9, 8.
I know how painful this is, but please know that Michele's coaches can help you come up with a plan to work toward turning this situation around...if you are willing. At this time, it might seem easier to walk away, but with 3 young children, you want to be sure you don't leave any stone unturned and that you stay strong for their sake. You will also get clarity on what your goal is when you work with a coach. I hope to hear from you. Take good care.
Sorry that you find yourself here. Can you fill us in on your backstory? That way we can give you the help you need.
I'm not sure what to do. I can't stand being in this situation.
You were too hasty filing for D. You're only 12 weeks into your sitch, your emotions are running the show. It takes time, but you need to get past the emotions and start thinking more clearly before doing anything rash like filing for D. D is not going to bring you the relief and peace you hope it does.
But I prefer to try and work things out with my wife. But I see effort from her. And now I wonder if I still want to be with her. Married 12 years, three kids 11, 9, 8.
Have you read DR? If not then do so right away, especially the chapter on infidelity. Many, many marriages recover from an affair, it doesn't have to be a deal-killer. An affair is usually a symptom of marital problems, not the cause of it. I'm not making light of what she has done, just saying you have your own issues you need to own and work on before you throw your M under the bus.
Yes, I'm still here. My post didn't show up right away, so I didn't know people were replying.
My backstory - Married 12 years, known 14. Three kids 11,9,8. I'm 44, my wife just turned 40. The first ten years are marriage was pretty stable and good. Of course we had ups/downs, but nothing serious. My wife was a stay at home mom until the kids all started grade school. She worked part time at first at a jewelry store. No problem with that. The extra money was nice, and she had more of a social life with co-workers. Then 2 years ago, she wanted to get her real estate license to sell residential real estate. I've been in commercial real estate for 20+ years. I had reservations about her doing this because residential real estate involves meeting clients when they are not working (so after work at night and weekends). Nevertheless, I still supported her desire do it. So I helped her study, even got her a position to work/train with a friend at his real estate company. So fast forward a couple years, she is doing great, sold like 10 properties this year. Only problem is I feel she is neglecting the kids and I. She goes out 2-3 week to network/meeting clients. I put up with it at first. But then about a year ago I write a letter to her letting her know how I feel. She responds saying she appreciates my support, and sorry for neglecting the kids and I. But the new job just takes up time/energy. We both hope that once she settles in, she will not be as busy. It never happens though, the market here in Honolulu heats up, she gets even more busy. Around July I notice changes in her. Nicer clothes, starts getting interested in golf, running. And she is going out 3-4 times a week now. I take her to lunch to discuss the same issue as I wrote her about a year before. But nothing changes again. She becomes more distant. We have sex less frequently and she doesn't seem into it. She starts coming home much later than before. I ask her if she is having an affair. She laughingly denies it. "How can I have an affair with this body after 3 kids" she says. But the truth is she is in better shape than ever. She's an active tennis player and people think she is under 30 on the court. I believe her about not having an affair. She was a straight arrow and conservative. And I really trusted her.
In August she went out with friends on my birthday. In late August I really felt something was wrong. I googled, "signs your spouse is cheating on you" I could check out half of the signs on the list. I did something I never did before, I checked her personal email account. And I found a string of emails that could not be mistaken for just a friend. I immediately confronted her about it. She admitted that she met a guy who owns a magazine company that she advertiser . And that they just had a good time with each other a dinner, going for drinks. She denies any sexual contact. She said she had no thoughts of divorcing me. But that our marriage had become stale, not fun for her the last couple years. I asked why she did not try to discuss this with me. She said she tried to but I did not listen or hear her. Maybe but I asked why she didn't bring it up when I gave her the letter and took her to lunch about my own feelings of neglect. She didn't have an answer. I was still devasteed, shocked even though it was an EA. I asked her to end the relationship. She said she needs time to do that. I found out the OM reserved a hotel room two days after Dday. And they consumated their EA into a PA. When I found this out, I got very angry. I started packing my bags to leave. But somehow my wife calmed me down and convinced me to stay. And saying she would end the affair.
But for the next several weeks she was very reluctant to discuss anything about the affair. The only way I could get her to talk was by getting really angry or threatening to leave the house. I found out she got a second cell phone.
We go to MC a few times. The MC suggested she take some time away because our situation at home was very stressful for both of us (probably because of my anger). She took a week off by getting vacation rental. And when she came back she said the OM didn't matter. But that she didn't think we could work things out because I got so angry and kept snooping on her. This seems like shifting the blame on my, and making herself the victim. She never showed any remorse or even any empathy for what I was going through. I figured that was the end of our marriage and she would divorce me. But later we talked some more and she wanted more time to think about what to do. I said ok, I'll agree to more time if she agrees to NC with the OM. She said okay.
The OM is about my age, has a wife and two kids 12 & 8. I sent a letter to his wife. But she didn't respond until right after my wife came back from here 1 week separation. I know she received the letter because my wife told me that the OM told her. So I know my wife broke her promise of NC with the OM. I also find out she gets another laptop which she tried to hide from me (she even told my daughter 8, not to tell Daddy about it) The OM's wife and I decide to meet secretly. I showed her proof that the affair was real (emails). She tells me her marriage has been bad for several years and her husband comes home everynight after 11pm, not just the last couple months, but for 3-4 years. He spends no time with her or their kids. So the affair was the last straw for her. She plans on getting a divorce. She is way more certain and confidant than me. She tells me her husband also wants a divorce. But recently she thinks he is having second thoughts.
The OM's is a avid golfer, runs marathons, likes to make money. This is the same stuff my wife has gotten interested the last few months. But the guys seems like a jerk to his family.
My wife refuses to be transparent. I accuse her of still seeing the OM which she denies. But she still has to 2nd cell phone, the 2nd laptop, still goes out 2-3 nights a week and doesnt come home till 11pm-12mid. I am reasonably sure the affair is still going on.
Because I get angry when I try to talk with my wife. I start sending letters. I send several and finally she responds saying that she doesn't know what to do. She cares about the kids and what's best for them. But she is not sure she can love me again like before. She doesn't say hardly anything about the situation with the OM. Most of the letter blames me for not making a happy marriage, wanting too much sex, and overreacting in a repulsive way to the affair. My last letter I say I agree our marriage had problems, and what mistakes I made I am willing to try and fix. But I can't stand waiting for her when the affair is still ongoing. So I have to leave the situation. So I filed for divorce. She was served on Halloween. She has not said anything about getting served. She did hire an attorney. The have until 11/20 to respond to the Divorce complaint.
Around the time I filed, I discovered this website. I got the other book Divorce Busting, but not Divorce Remedy. And I can tell I really screwed up from the beginning when I found out about the affair. I wish I found this website first. So after getting DB and reading alot of this website, I changed my plan. I stopped talking about our marriage, the affair, trying to reconcile. I stopped showing anger. And I stopped pressuring my wife. I basically am just trying to be the nice guy that I was before I found out about the affair. Not overly nice. Just polite and courteous to my wife. We still sleep in separate bedrooms. But we talk about regular things, the kids, work. We eat dinner as a family when she is home. She still goes out 2-3 times a week. Some of it is probably legitimate work related stuff, but I always supspects she meets the OM afterwards which is why she comes home so late. But my wife is in a much better mood than before. She even watches TV with me in the bedroom I sleep in. This morning I gave her a quick hug, she didn't pull away like she has done recenlty. I don't know what she is really thinking though. Maybe this is what she wants, ie no hassles/pressure/anger from me, almost normal family life, but she still gets to see the OM a few times a week. Im I letting her cake eat?
On the other hand she knows I filed for D and the time is ticking away. We have not discussed that. I feel like I should have waited longer. But I really can't stand being like this. Inside I still feel horrible, anger, jealousy, sadness. I'm faking contentment on the outside for my wife.
So what do I do now? If I dismiss the divorce complaint, wont she think I was just bluffing?. I bluffed before about leaving, filing for D (all mistakes I know). If I back down now, won't she know I'm not really serious and she can just do whatever she wants because she thinks I'll wait for her. For all I know, she might be waiting to see what the OM does. His wife it planning to Divorce soon. I don't want to wait around as Plan B for my wife. My true desire is to at least try and reconcile.
Sorry for the long post. Any advice is appreciated.
Aloha,
Coda87
When a divorce is finally filed, its almost a relief to the WAS, they all of a sudden come to terms its over, so I don't have to keep up my charade. They settle down, feel the situation in now amicable and can jump right back into co-parenting without the extra burden of trying to make the marriage work anymore.
I don't know how to proceed. Maybe a vet can chime in, personally I wouldn't say anything, I would withdraw the papers and say nothing. If she comes to you later and asks why she hasn't gotten her papers yet, well then, you know she's been waiting to get it over with. That still doesn't mean you cant salvage your marriage, you just made it a lot harder I guess.
I'd wait to see some of the reply's you get, DONT act on my advice. You've still got some time.
have you had any other talks with the OM's W?
As Fly says a vet will come with words of wisdom
This is the first time I have suggested this, but a DB coach would not be a bad idea, they are great from what I hear.
Might want to read DR, for me it made more sense.
I am truly at a cross on your dilemma since you filed, I see both sides.
Keep posting, it take a while to get off moderation.
Keep calm, and positive. Work on keeping yourself healthy and busy.
Yes, I keep in regular contact with OM's wife. Her husband is out almost everynight, so its hard to match when OM and my wife are both out. But we report to each other what times they come home. Some nights, they arrive home very close in time. OM's wife thinks her husband is worried about divorce because he might lose custody of his young children. And he owns several companies, all built up during the marriage. Hawaii is a no fault divorce state. Assets/Debts are divided up pretty much 50/50. According to her, his main goal in life is to make money (he grew up poor). So facing possibility of losing half the value of his self built businesses must bother him a lot.
His wife doesn't work. So alimony at least temporarily and child support the next 10 years. He will take a big hit financially.
Also, My wife is a couple years older than his wife, so its not like he is picking up some much younger babe. My wife will have joint custody of our three kids aif we divorce. I don't see how their relationship looks promising. Especially after knowing they both had a big part in destroying two families with young kids and they both cheated. Not a good way to continue a relationship. I'm sure it was fun when the affair was secret.
Also, my wife is still keeping up the charade. She is still trying to hide the fact that the affair is ongoing. In fact she denies it. If it's really over for her, why lie about it? Hawaii is a no-fault divorce state. The courts generally do not consider the affair as a factor in the divorce. I'm sure her lawyer advised her. She already got served the D papers too. I could dismiss the complaint. But not sure if I should.
Coda,
Just my opinion, but I agree with your thought of maintaining your course of D as it is. Right now your wife is cake eating, as you seem to understand, and she will continue to do so while watching what you do. You have set a boundary, and must stick with it until she really goes NC and agrees to create a new marriage with you.
The OM sounds like a creep and it will not work out for long with your W, if she try's to make a go with him. When (not if) it crashes and burns, I'll bet she'll be back at your doorstep asking for you to take her back. I suggest one of your conditions for R is that she quits real estate.
Good luck to you, you seem like a decent guy. 40 seems like a magic number for affairs to start.......
-hs
Hi Coda,
I was following your story on another forum and your situation has been particularly heartbreaking. I think you have kind of glossed over just how horribly your wife has been treating you on in your posts on this site.
I think DB and the 180 will be very good for you to emotionally detach, regain your center, rebuild and move on. However, I would humbly suggest you not look for strategies to reconcile with your wife from this or any other approach right now - she is a cake-eater of the highest order, completely devoid of any real empathy for you, and nothing you do can change that. You need to protect yourself and your kids. She is clearly in a state of limerance/fog right now. As painful as it is, I think pushing the divorce forward as quickly as possible and trying to maximize custody by documenting your position in recent years as primary child care provider and the only stable parent will put you and your kids in the best position possible in the future. I would bet your wife will never snap out of it until well after you are no longer an option.
Good luck!
So the OM lives at home with his W? Sounds like both are cake eating. Stop doing nice things for her. She's committing adultery in your face.
So the OM lives at home with his W? Sounds like both are cake eating. Stop doing nice things for her. She's committing adultery in your face.
Mr Bond - in a case like this would you ever recommend the LBS sets an ultimatum and request the cheating spouse to leave the house?
No you shouldn't offer an ultimatum, however there is a point where the LBS needs to put their foot down and start establishing boundaries.
In an extreme case, if it were me, I would pack up her bags and drop them off at the OM's working place with a note saying "she's all yours".
But that's just me.
Well that is a pretty brutal story. It reads like you have been a good husband, communicated when you needed to, etc. I think in general folks on DB are quick to tell you that you weren't meeting your spouse's needs, or there was something "wrong" with what you were doing in the marriage that lead to this, and that is always a great place to start looking and good soul searching to do. It's not always the case however, sometimes you didn't do anything wrong and you can still get cheated on.
That said, no one is perfect, so it does bear doing the introspection and determine if there is anything about you that needs to change to make your future relationships (with or without your wife) as affair-proof as they can be.
Following your story, your W went into real estate, which is a highly "social" profession. The business really runs on referrals, so it's important to spend time building relationships and getting people to like you. My MiL was a mortgage broker and had an affair with a realtor. The whole realtor / mortgage agent / real estate lawyer ecosystem seems to thrive on wining, dining and socializing in order to build the referral network. There's at least one other person I'm aware of on the boards whose wife is a realtor and had an affair with another realtor.
If your W was also hitting some kind of MLC point in her life, then you had a perfect storm brewing of opportunities to court validation and affirmation outside of the marriage outside of a regular workplace. I agree that getting back on track may well require her to change careers for some period of time until you have mutually re-established trust.
I think what to do next depends a lot upon what you want. When a WAS initially leaves a panicked LBS tends to think that the WAS returning "will make everything all better", but the reality is that the return of the WAS is just the starting line for the next period of struggle and hard work. If your wife returns but remains uncommitted or checked out, I guarantee you a life of misery.
Relationships need balance to survive, which is to say that each party needs to "want it" to roughly the same degree. If she comes home reluctant, your M will be out of balance, and she will do as she pleases or threaten to leave you when things don't go her way. She'll know you want it more, and that will impact how you relate going forward. When the WAS comes back for the safety net, or as a second choice, and is not willing to do the work to make the marriage better, I think you're better off if they didn't come back at all, because you are just prolonging an inevitable destruction.
That said, I do think it's worth it to play hard ball. The steps are as follows:
(1) Determine what YOU want: What do you want in terms of a recovery and reconciliation plan? What does a longer term marriage look like that makes you happy and satisfied? Spend some time figuring that out for yourself.
(2) Communicate your needs to W: "W, I believe in marriage, and I would like to save ours from dissolution. I'm willing to do the work to make things better between us and deliver a relationship that will make you satisfied. I will not, however, be disrespected or do it alone. If you want to re-engage with me, we will need to work together to improve things between us. I'm not telling you what to do, you can do whatever you want to do. If you want to start a new relationship with me, I will have some requirements."
(3) Create and Enforce Personal Boundaries: W, I will not be in an open marriage. If you persist in seeing OM, I would like you to move out. If she will not move out, resolve that you will limit your interactions, separate your finances, etc. etc. Definitely don't stand for or enable cake-eating.
WRT your filing, as long as she is involved with OM, or even still in contact with OM, she's very unlikely to take any action to make things better between you. Therefore, if she's still with or seeing OM, and you proceed with your divorce filing, you are likely to end up divorced.
That can be a fine long term approach, as the best way to get your spouse to re-engage as equals is to first completely "drop the rope" and let them go. That said, finalizing a divorce is expensive and comes with some structure and rigidity regarding custody and finances that can be very inconvenient.
One strategy might be to suspend the divorce proceeding without telling W and wait out the affair while pulling back on any behaviors that would enable cake eating.
Once OM is gone and W no longer has a back stop, that's when I would put the divorce proceedings back on track if you're not seeing any re-engagement and feel stuck in limbo.
Good luck!
Acc
No you shouldn't offer an ultimatum, however there is a point where the LBS needs to put their foot down and start establishing boundaries.
In an extreme case, if it were me, I would pack up her bags and drop them off at the OM's working place with a note saying "she's all yours".
But that's just me.
I'm with Bond….
Well I lost my patience after trying to do the 180 for a couple weeks. Since my wife got served the D papers, she has gone out at night almost every night returning at 11pm-12midnight. The last 6 nights, she went out 5 of them. I finally had to say something to her which was basically "it's not good for our kids, don't forget you are still a mother". She got all defensive, saying it was all work related and she is just busy right now. But she admits some of the days were just drinking with co-workers and a party with friends. The other days I am reasonably sure she met the OM after her client meetings (if there even really were mtgs). Who stays out with clients on weekdays til 11-12midnight?
I finally asked her how she feels about my filing for divorce. She said she is worried about divorce. Then we get into an long argument. She denies the affair is still ongoing. I ask her to show me her 2nd cell phone bill to prove that. Or just admit that the affair is still ongoing which is why she is still on the fence. I said I can understand her indecision if the affair is still active. But I say I can't stand the repeated lying. Her response to me was lets just get a divorce then. She refuses to do either of the things I ask. I have a sense that she doesn't want it to look like the marriage is ending because of the affair. That is why she is unwilling to do either of the things above (because both will show the affair is ongoing). But I tell her the reason I filed is because I think the affair is ongoing and she is lying about it. And that is my boundary.
So I really feel like I can't back down now. My wife maybe trying to bluff me. Or maybe she really decided divorce is what she wants. I really can't understand what she is thinking.
I will continue the 180 and go very dim/dark on her.
I'm now having doubts if I even want to be still married to her. I definitely made mistakes before and after D-day. But I put way more effort into the marriage prior to the affair. And even after the affair, I've made all the effort to try and fix the situation. If I think this is the way its going to be even if we do try to reconcile, and maybe after, it's not very appealing to me. Maybe I should cut my losses and just go through with the divorce.
. So after getting DB and reading alot of this website, I changed my plan. I stopped talking about our marriage, the affair, trying to reconcile. I stopped showing anger. And I stopped pressuring my wife. I basically am just trying to be the nice guy
This is great!
As hard it will be, you have to stop putting your energy into the OM. Focus on you and what you need and want to change about you. Stop talking with OM W.
Well I lost my patience after trying to do the 180 for a couple weeks. Since my wife got served the D papers, she has gone out at night almost every night returning at 11pm-12midnight. The last 6 nights, she went out 5 of them. I finally had to say something to her which was basically "it's not good for our kids, don't forget you are still a mother". She got all defensive, saying it was all work related and she is just busy right now. But she admits some of the days were just drinking with co-workers and a party with friends. The other days I am reasonably sure she met the OM after her client meetings (if there even really were mtgs). Who stays out with clients on weekdays til 11-12midnight?
I finally asked her how she feels about my filing for divorce. She said she is worried about divorce. Then we get into an long argument. She denies the affair is still ongoing. I ask her to show me her 2nd cell phone bill to prove that. Or just admit that the affair is still ongoing which is why she is still on the fence. I said I can understand her indecision if the affair is still active. But I say I can't stand the repeated lying. Her response to me was lets just get a divorce then. She refuses to do either of the things I ask. I have a sense that she doesn't want it to look like the marriage is ending because of the affair. That is why she is unwilling to do either of the things above (because both will show the affair is ongoing). But I tell her the reason I filed is because I think the affair is ongoing and she is lying about it. And that is my boundary.
So I really feel like I can't back down now. My wife maybe trying to bluff me. Or maybe she really decided divorce is what she wants. I really can't understand what she is thinking.
I will continue the 180 and go very dim/dark on her.
I'm now having doubts if I even want to be still married to her. I definitely made mistakes before and after D-day. But I put way more effort into the marriage prior to the affair. And even after the affair, I've made all the effort to try and fix the situation. If I think this is the way its going to be even if we do try to reconcile, and maybe after, it's not very appealing to me. Maybe I should cut my losses and just go through with the divorce.
1. Breathe
2. Implement the 48 hour rule or something similar. Don’t make any decisions or say anything to your W until 48 hours have passed.
3. Keep trying to not worry or fix the A. Doesn’t matter if it is happening or not right now. You can only control you.
4. GAL
You are going to have changes in what you feel and want weekly, daily, and hourly. Please make sure you have read DB, I prefer DR and read and follow:
Sandi's Rules You can do this.
"Well I lost my patience after trying to do the 180 for a couple weeks."
Just FYI, it takes more than just a couple of weeks. It took years to get to this point. A few days won't do it.
I forgot to mention I received DR in the mail yesterday. Again, I wish I read it sooner. I got through about 1/3 of it last night and I read chapter 10 on Infidelity. It sounds like I jumped right to the Last Last Resort.
I never realized until now how hard this is to do which is controlling your actions/behavior when you have serious negative emotions whirling around inside. At least the length of time I can endure it is getting longer. Right after D-Day I had no control, then every 2-3 days, then 1 once a week, and most recently I held out for almost 2 weeks.
I will keep doing the 180, not focus on her, keep the divorce proceedings going. I let her have it all her way until I filed for D. I hope I can keep my resolve.
Coda87, I think you misunderstand "180" as you keep referring to it as "the 180" and seem to think it means not focusing on W.
"180" in the book means looking at the things you did in your marriage that drove your spouse crazy and changing them. i.e. if you always left your clothes on the floor and it drove your W crazy, start putting them in the hamper all the time. It's taking their marital complaints and turning them upside down.
The nuance is that you want to make changes that are important to you, not just things you can do "to get your spouse back". If you just do it to get them back, it will be transparent, and they will distrust that the change is real. They'll think as soon as they come back you'll revert to how things were. That's why it's important to commit to your 180 and "live it" even when no one is watching. That's what it comes down to.
Not focusing on her and stopping your resistance is "Act as If"
Acc
Thanks for the clarification about the 180.
My wife admitted that our marriage was comfortable before the affair. But she had these complaints:
1)We didn't have enough fun, both just the two of us, and with the family
2) I didn't take enough initiative to plan fun things with her and/or the kids.
3) I'm too lenient with the kids (ie with homework, staying up late, playing too much videogames/computer time)
For #3, I have made changes. I've been making the kids go to bed earlier, limit their videogame/computer time, monitor their homework, even made a chores list they have to do to earn their allowance.
For #1 & #2 - I am a bit confused because I've always spent more time with the kids. I take them camping 3-4 times per year. I take them to the beach at least once a month. I'm the Wolf den leader for one of my son's Cub scout pack, weekly mtgs for that. And my wife very rarely participated in all those things. Usually on Saturday we would go out to eat as a family for dinner. And I have continued to do things with the kids and even as a family on weekends.
So I think my wife wanted bigger fun things like family vacations (which we haven't done in a while). And alone time for just her and I. I actually complained about this to her after she started her new real estate job. Since the affair is still ongoing and things are bad between us, it seems kind of weird to try and 180 the issues for #1 & #2. So not sure how to 180 this issue. Any advice is appreciated.
Also here is an update since our argument last week Thur. She when out on Fri to dinner with a friend to talk about D. But she came home early before 10pm. She didn't go out Sat or Sun night, and is not going out tonight. Neither of us has brought up the marriage/divorce since then. She hasn't made and appointment with the MC to discuss how to tell our kids about the D. At home, both of us have been polite/courteous. But not affection displayed by either. I thought about asking her if she wants to postpone the divorce proceedings until after the holidays. But I decided not to do that for now.
A couple other things happened that made me think. It could just be my wishful thinking. First, she was going to go out Saturday afternoon to practice hitting golf balls. I asked if she was going by herself, and she reacted like I thought she was going to go with the OM who is an avid golfer. I shouldnt have asked. But 10 min later she said she is not going to go. I'm hoping that she changed her mind maybe because she thought I would worry, so out of consideration she cancelled. And second, I went out with some friends on Saturday night. When I got back, everyone was in bed. But on her desk was her 2nd cell phone bill for Oct. Last week when we argued, I asked to see it, she refused then. The bill is not a detailed bill showing all the calls/text msgs. But it shows the # minutes used and # of text msg, both were lower than the previous month, especially the txt msgs (only 19). So I wonder is she left it on her desk on purpose? Or is she that careless? I don't know for sure. Maybe I'm just hoping too much.
Yeah, you have to be careful with their complaints because sometimes it's just a smokescreen to justify their affair, and sometimes they are real. You have to critically evaluate them and think about how YOU want to live your life and what's important to YOU. From what you've written you're doing fine. The best way to 180 the "lack of fun" complaint is to go out and have fun yourself or with the kids and don't worry about if she notices or not.
With regard to your second post, that is all wishful thinking. You're way down in the weeds analyzing her every utterance and action and attaching meaning to it. You need to take the long term view. No one interaction one way or the other really means that much. You will know you are making progress when you are feeling better about yourself. You will know you are making progress in your relationship when W starts staying home at night because she wants to, gives up her second cell phone, and agrees to go "no contact" with OM and provide full transparency. Before that, don't believe anything she says at all, believe only half of what she does, and do NOT get your hopes up over anything.
I would not expect things to be markedly different until July - August next year. I would focus on that as your next appraisal point and not try to temperature-check on a day to day basis. Don't bring up the D either, that was good. When she goes out, don't ask if she's going alone, just take your eye off what she does, that's up to her. Focus on you and the kids.
Acc
I'm really not willing to wait til next summer for her.She finally admitted that she still has feelings for the OM. That's all I wanted to know. All this time she kept denying the affair was still ongoing. This lead me to believe there was still a chance. Now I know there isn't because I'm just not patient enough to wait around for her. And I'm what, just her backup plan?
No way. I'm will continue the divorce process .
I get it, there is nothing at all wrong with that
My WW keeps saying the affair is over. And she wants a divorce because of our bad marriage. Well Friday night I figured out what hotel they were meeting at. So me and the OMs wife went to the hotel to confront them. The four of us met in the hotel lobby. OM barely said anything, but my WW, OMW, and I talked. My WW said she wants to be with the OM. So I know the truth now is that WW is still deeply attached to the OM.
I figure it's pretty much over. But I don't want to divorce.
The divorce process is moving forward. Is it too late? What can I do now?
Should I even try to talk my WW about stopping or at least delaying the D?
I'm feeling so sad and desperate.
Do you really want to be the second choice?
Coda87,
You're very conflicted. Your message on 11/20 lead me to believe you wanted out, but then you drove to the hotel with OMW to catch W in the act and confront her. I guarantee that action made her resent you very much.
If you want to divorce, divorce. If you want to try to save your marriage through DB, then you have to act differently and approach this situation in a completely different manner, and that will be counter-intuitive and painful for you.
I will tell you this, if you do it "half way" or sometimes DB and sometimes do what you want, the impact will be to not save your marriage and prolong your pain too, which is the worst outcome, so you have to either commit, or don't commit, but you can't semi-commit, because that's doomed to fail.
So if you want to commit, what do you need to do?
1) Reset your expectations: Realize you are in for a very long wait, and nothing you do can shorten that wait. You literally have to wait for her affair to end on it's own, then you need to wait for her to grieve the end of the affair, and then you need to wait for her to evaluate what she wants such that she can look at you as a possible future rather than just a scarred past. You can't shorten that timeline, but you can continue to lengthen it, potentially indefinitely, if you keep building resentment.
You have to drop your expectations of "what you are owed", or what marriage implies you should get. You have to adopt the philosophy that she literally owes you nothing. She doesn't owe you an apology, she doesn't owe you courteous responses, she doesn't owe you some time, she owes you nothing. You simply have to act as the silent better choice.
2) Decrease Resentment: Many relationship books use the concept of a "love bank" where you make deposits and withdrawals. If you make more withdrawals than deposits, the love bank runs empty, and your spouse starts shopping around to get their needs met elsewhere. In a "happy" marriage, your deposits need to outweigh your withdrawals by 20:1, and in a maintainable marriage, the ratio needs to be 7:1. Where this model breaks down though, is once the love bank is empty, the resentment bank starts to fill, and you can't start refilling the love bank until the resentment bank has been cleaned out, and that is very, very difficult. That's why when you spouse says "you never took me out to dinner", and you offer to take her to dinner *now*, it doesn't do any good, she no longer wants to go, because her resentment bank is preventing any love deposits.
Therefore *everything* you do needs to be measured against a yardstick of resentment. Will it make her resent you more or less?
What will make her resent you more will be shaming her, embarrassing her, scolding her, appearing to be trying to stand in the way of her happiness, being sad around her, making her responsible for your feelings, telling her you're not happy because of what she's doing, etc. etc. She will also resent you for discussing your situation with family and friends and making her out to be the bad person. You simply have to stop all of that if you want to DB. You have to "act as if" it doesn't impact you, and that you are fine no matter what she does.
That's different than condoning it or saying that it's good or even okay, you don't have to go that far, you just have to let her do what she will do, and act as if you are fine with yourself no matter what she does. It's getting to a "judgement free zone", and establishing complete self-reliance, like you had back when you were single.
3) Apply DivorceBusting: Re-read DB / DR and live it. Live by Sandi's 37 rules. The principles are really quite straight forward, they are just counter-intuitive. 180 your spouse's long running complaints about you, get a life of your own, and act as if you are fine. That's the prescription in a nutshell. Easy to say, hard to do, but that's the path.
The hardest part of this is the timeline. We typically feel that if we apply our best efforts to something, we should be rewarded. This is a lot like riding an exercise bike for an hour a day for a week and expecting to right away lose 20 pounds. When it doesn't happen it's easy to get discouraged, but if you really want to see results, it's probably better to get on a maintainable exercise plan you can stick to, and have realistic expectations of how long it will take to reach you goal.
If you choose to go the "save my marriage" route, there are no guarantees, W and OM could get married and live happily ever after. You need to be okay with that based on the fact that applying DB will make YOU a better person.
I felt that if there were things about me that blew up my marriage and annoyed my wife, they would probably come up again in future relationships and annoy anyone else I might start dating, so I better deal with them or they would be a permanent issue. That has nothing to do with W and everything to do with you.
You simply have a choice to make, and it's a tough one.
Acc
Yes, I do feel conflicted. One day I want to divorce. The next day I don't want to. I know my wife resents me for the way I reacted to the affair, and it pushed her further into the arms of the OM.
I will commit to trying to save the marriage.
I'm going to try to do what Accuray suggests. Have no expectations, stop nagging my WW, and DB. I have both books now.I just hope I have the patience to wait for her.
So should I tell her I'm going to stop the Divorce proceedings? What should I tell her, if anything?
Thanks!
I just wouldn't tell her anything and give her space. Just take your eye off that ball completely.
Start focusing on protecting yourself emotionally. Watching her live this way is hurting you. How can you protect yourself? How can you avoid watching? Those are the questions to ask.
Usually, when our spouse leaves we feel very invalidated and "less than", and we desperately seek our spouse's validation to build us back up.
When you were single you survived just fine without that validation. Rediscover what that takes.
Meet new people, try new things, put yourself out there. The best way to feel "in control" again is to build some new relationships, engage in some new hobbies and activities.
If you can do things where you will see progress, like workout out or learning an instrument, it can help produce feelings of being in control which boost confidence.
You need to design a way forward for yourself that does not involve W, what W is doing, saying, or thinking, and if you can insulate yourself from those things, you will feel better. Snooping on her will pound you down.
I do think it's good to know what's going on, but once you know, you start torturing yourself with it if you keep looking. You need to open the door, take a look, then close the door again, lock it, and throw away the key.
For now, one day at a time.
Acc
I think there are conflicting sites... this one stresses keeping the lines open and while detaching remaining available. Another site suggests the opposite, going completely dark and having absolutely no contact, no thoughts, nothing to do with the WAS until the fog clears and the get rid of the AP. It's to heal and move on and let go. Because these two sites conflict each other it's probably a good idea to choose one to follow and one to just read.. otherwise you will be all over the place and confuse the terms such as the 180 and Plan B, which is what the other site calls their suggestion. 180 means to do the opposite. Do not beg, reason etc, do not discuss the issue if they aren't ready etc.. . where Plan B is going deeply dark sometimes for good. One keeps the door open to reconciling the other prepares you to move on with the door firmly closed tight.
Coda? She is telling you that you are the problem and making it seem like if you did this or that it would be better, but in reality it wouldn't be. What you are doing is making it harder for her to do what she is doing, she prefers to cake eat and take her time about what she wants to do, you are pushing her and she is resenting it. This is not your fault. She made the choices she made. She is now wanting to keep you and her OM. She can't. So she is resenting that you are making her choose. I made my husband choose. He filed D. It hasn't progressed yet beyond being served but he too said I pushed it. No, I set a boundary that he can't be in MY life if SHE is in HIS. So he filed. Since it's gone nowhere it makes me think he did it to regain control over the situation and make me back down. All he succeeded in doing was now making it even harder to ever reconcile.
At the end of the day, I will probably let his filing expire and then file myself in the new year. My marriage unfortunately is totally over. He made that very clear when he chose her, told me I need to understand how OW feels and then filed divorce and refused to speak to me about it. Just wants me to go away and fade from existence as if we never met, never married and then he can feel good about himself and not like the POSWH he actually is.
Coda - My recommendation would be to move forward with the Divorce. These things take time. I am not sure about your state, but in Mi, there is a 6 month waiting period when you have children.
If your W ever changes her tune, you can delay the proceeding at any time. Heck, you can even reconcile after the D. But, these things have the potential of getting ugly, and it is best to put in place the financial and custody boundaries that a legal divorce offers.
If you get to the point where you are thoroughly done with her, it is a long wait while the legal process moves forward.
Bottom line, you need to respect yourself enough to end any relationship with a woman treating you like this.
180 means evaluating the issues that you brought to the marriage and addressing them. If you used to nag, be supportive, if you were withdrawn, engage, etc. Take what your spouse thinks they know about you and surprise them by not following your typical behavior.
That's different than managing your emotions post-bomb.
Ok, I get the definition of the 180 now. I'm working on doing the 180 on the marriage issues. But do I also 180 the way I behaved right after finding out about the affair?
For example, I've gotten really angry, been judgmental, put a lot of pressure on my WW about the affair. I know this has pushed her away from me and to the OM. And caused her to feel great resentment about me.
I'm going to slow down, but not stop the divorce proceedings.
Will see how things are going in January, then re-evaluate.
For those of you whose spouses had serious affairs, how long did it take them for the initial fantasy phase to wear off and reality start to set in? For my WW, its really only been about 4-5 months, 3 months since it became physical. She is still not thinking rationally.
Thanks!
Coda87
What I've read is 18 months to 3 years for an affair to run it's course. At that point it either fizzles and falls apart, or turns into a "regular relationship", which is to say that the fog of "everything is awesome" has burned off and there are regular relationship problems that come along with the benefits.
Acc