Hi all, I've been on the forum and wasn't sure how to start new thread until someone helped me just now.
8-2012 H Stated - He was not happy, he felt we were just business partners, and he needed some space. Left for two days, came back and then I found out he had been having an EA with someone we both know. We both went to IC and also went to MC. I continued, he did not. He did not like our C. I asked him to move out until we could figure out what we were going to do. He left and was gone until February 2013. Came back, I was still going to IC, he nothing.
Things were going well until 8-2013 - I walked outside to take garbage out and he was on a second phone. I asked him to leave. He said "We are DONE anyway". Found out it's the same OW as last year.
He has been up and down emotionally since then. One day wanting a D, the next day he misses me and loves me. I'm pretty sure MLC.
I have done the DB techniques and have been working on me, GAL, staying busy with other things. I have backslid a couple times with comments I've made but all in all I feel I've done pretty good.
We own a business together and therefore have daily contact. I make sure I do not initiate any R talk. So for the last two months, we have had civil conversations, he's taken S on occasion and he has met us for dinner.
I feel really strong right now, I've detached and I honestly don't have that pain in my heart anymore.
Yesterday evening, he comes over and hugs me and asks me if I want him back. I said if he wants to even begin to work on it, he has to do NC with OW in front of me. He said he knew what he had to do. He said if I didn't want him back that was ok and if I wanted to take it slow that was ok too that he understood. I basically left him hanging. I didn't respond.
Now he wants to go to dinner tonight. My problem is this, I'm not sure what I'm feeling right now. Not sure what I want. I do not believe any of what he says, and half of what he does. So for me at this point, I'm pretty sure I am detached.
Don't know where to go from here.
I said if he wants to even begin to work on it, he has to do NC with OW in front of me. He said he knew what he had to do.
I literally just told my W the same thing for OM. So has it happened yet?
JonF, no he just asked me yesterday about getting back together and then left for our beach house (where he is staying at present).
I guess I shouldn't put much stock into anything until that happens.
P.S. Sorry you're here, but it sounds like you've done a fantastic job so far.
If he contacts again, I would simply restate about the NC rule, and if he refuses, then keep going the way you're going.
I've had a lot of false starts recently, and I'm almost positive that most of them have happened because of W's EA still floating around. Until that separation happens, I would seriously doubt you'll see much change. Even then, most folks on here would tell you about a "grieving" period over the OW.
JonF, thanks. I'm sure that's what I will be doing. Feeling stronger everyday. I hadn't brought up OW or R talk before. But when he asked me yesterday, I felt strong enough to make that very clear to him. I feel like he's been sitting on the fence for a while and riding a roller coaster. I chose to not be an option for him anymore and I also got off the ride. I'm looking for actions, not words. Talk is cheap.
And I'm aware of the "grieving" period as well. He did that last year also. I appreciate your response.
WOW Tina.... I must admit, I am envious of your position.
Good luck to you... I agree, talk is cheap! Do not be an option. Either you are #1 or not at all!
Must ask... when you have conversations (even about business), are you more matter of fact with him or friendly neighbour or loving wife?
Tx., Magic
Magic - the conversations we have at this point about business are matter of fact. If he brings up any relationship talk, I'm more friendly neighbor. Have not been "loving wife" for a while. I do still validate things, but have learned to do so without alot of emotion. Maybe I'm turning hard, I don't know. I do know it feels alot better on my heart.
That's a harsh experience, but I do envy you the spouse trying to reconcile
Best of luck.
2Stubborn - Not sure if I even want to reconcile right now. That's the problem I'm having.
I understand that and it's a difficult decision, but seeing as it's a choice then there's a positive element for you. If I was to give advice, I'd try the mc and see which direction it goes...mc can help with either reconciliation or smooth out the divorce.
He has been up and down emotionally since then. One day wanting a D, the next day he misses me and loves me. I'm pretty sure MLC.
Sounds more like WAS, unless there's more indications that you didn't mention. Like Jon said, recovering from an OP is not a linear process. The WAS will flip-flop a lot during their grieving and recovery.
I feel really strong right now, I've detached and I honestly don't have that pain in my heart anymore.
That's great, sounds like you've done some effective DB'ing!
Yesterday evening, he comes over and hugs me and asks me if I want him back. I said if he wants to even begin to work on it, he has to do NC with OW in front of me.
GREAT! I'd also tell him that if he's serious then HE needs to set up MC for the two of you. Also consider Retrouvaille if it's in your area, it will help both of you immensely.
Now he wants to go to dinner tonight. My problem is this, I'm not sure what I'm feeling right now.
You're feeling WAS-type feelings. That's actually pretty normal, you've gotten to a good place and you're not sure you want to open yourself up to being hurt again, to trusting him again when he's done so much to breach your trust. Just remember, the goal is NEVER to go back to what you had. It was broken, consider it dead and gone. The question to ask yourself is this- is this a man that you think you could fall back in love with? Are you willing to give that a chance? Go to the dinner and explore that.
AS, thank you for the insight. Other things he has done to make me think MLC is withdrawn, depression, anger, wanting to lose weight, wanting to color his hair, not feeling he is good enough socially, not feeling he is successful enough in society. He just recently turned 45.
You are correct on the not wanting to open myself up for hurt again. I have a major issue with trusting anything that he says right now which is why I find it hard to let my guard down.
I think he has an out of town run tonight so dinner will be postponed I'm sure, although he hasn't called or texted that information to me yet.
Thanks again.
Good luck with your dinner!
I am feeling the same way as you right now, kind of in self-protection mode. I understand the self-protection thing. I guess what you need is to decide what it is that YOU want for yourself. How do you picture your life farther down the road? I think you should at least hear him out at dinner to see where he is at. Keep posting and let us know how it all goes!
-cp
CP, you are correct, self-protection!
Dinner postponed as he had an out of town run, last minute. I know it's true since I have to order permits for him to haul it back. He did mention wanting to get together this weekend for fishing while he was here. I didn't agree nor disagree to anything. I will hear him out, but am still waiting on that NC with OW to happen. I will not ask or tell him again that that's what I need. I've told him 4 times in two months.
hi tina,
I've been having these exact thoughts lately about IF I could ever open up again to him. My sitch has not gotten far enough to have this R talk yet, but I still am trying to prepare for it and figure out what I would want from it.
I truly understand the self-protection mode. Who wants to be hurt like this again?
I hope your dinner or convo on this goes well. But I've seen how strong you are in your talks and I know you will say what needs to be said, firmly and calmly. I'm learning from you!
Hey PM, Hope things are good for you.
H just called wanting to know if he had any pants here. I said "Why would you?", not trying to be ugly, but he took all his clothes when he left. He indicated he didn't want to have to drive an additional 1 1/2 hours to beach house in pouring rain. I told him I don't know what to tell you. I really wanted to tell him to go stay all night with OW, but I didn't.
He said "You don't want me to come home?" Remember - I've already told him 4 times what he has to do to even begin this healing process, which is NC with OW where I can witness it. I said H, we will need to discuss things and try to figure out what and how our old M got broken before I can commit to anything and that I can't set myself up to be hurt again like this. He was silent on phone for about a minute so I told him I would talk to him later.
I do expect him to show up here without calling, which is one of my boundaries that he continually crosses. He also has not spent anytime with his S this week, which really saddens me. I do not even talk about that anymore as S would rather be here.
Extremely confused, but strong here and not expecting A THING! As I've said before Talk is Cheap.
H just sent a text: H - "What do you want to talk about", "I'm tired".
M: Ok, no need to talk.
H: You said we did
M: Nothing
H: You sure
M: Yeah, it's fine. Basically you just old me your too tired to talk anyway. And I didn't mean today.
Really ticks me off that just over two hours ago I told him we need to figure out how our old M got broken before I can commit to anything.
Please help me lord!
H showed up last night, as I expected he would. Without a phone call. Spent some time with S watching TV. No R talk at all between us. I did notice he kept his cell phone close to his person. Hugged me, told me he loves me. When I didn't respond he said, "Did you hear me?" like he's been doing. I replied with a yes. Now he wants to take me to lunch today. I feel him trying to push his way back into the M and home quicker than I am ready, especially with no C or talk.
HELP!
AS, thank you for the insight. Other things he has done to make me think MLC is withdrawn, depression, anger, wanting to lose weight, wanting to color his hair, not feeling he is good enough socially, not feeling he is successful enough in society. He just recently turned 45.
quote]
Yeah, he could be MLC. I think pretty much everyone goes through an MLC phase, but for many it's just a period of reflection rather than full-blown crazy monster alien MLC.
[quote=Tina825]
He said "You don't want me to come home?" Remember - I've already told him 4 times what he has to do to even begin this healing process, which is NC with OW where I can witness it.
Is he still involved with OW? If so then you're right, this is all a non-starter and it's pointless for him to even say such things if he can't even comply with your most basic boundary (break it off with OW).
Darn it, I screwed up the quotes on that last, should read like this:
AS, thank you for the insight. Other things he has done to make me think MLC is withdrawn, depression, anger, wanting to lose weight, wanting to color his hair, not feeling he is good enough socially, not feeling he is successful enough in society. He just recently turned 45.
Yeah, he could be MLC. I think pretty much everyone goes through an MLC phase, but for many it's just a period of reflection rather than full-blown crazy monster alien MLC.
He said "You don't want me to come home?" Remember - I've already told him 4 times what he has to do to even begin this healing process, which is NC with OW where I can witness it.
Is he still involved with OW? If so then you're right, this is all a non-starter and it's pointless for him to even say such things if he can't even comply with your most basic boundary (break it off with OW).
I haven't asked a word about OW, YET. I just told him several times what I need in order to even begin to heal and move forward. If I decide to go to lunch today, that will be the topic, unfortunately, I do not want to discuss OW, but it's obvious he's not going to bring that subject up unless I do.
Guess we'll see where this goes today.
Thanks AS. Have a great day.
So, did the lunch thing with H. He was asking if I would give him another chance. I told him I wasn't sure what I wanted at this point because I'm not ready to give it my all and get hurt again. That we need to work on what was broke and bury the old M.
I again reiterated that he has to make that phone call in order for me to even BEGIN this process of healing. He agreed to do so. Phone call is suppose to happen this evening after S goes to bed.
H states he hasn't talked to OW in over a week, did not answer her calls and did not answer her texts. He showed me a text from Tuesday from her that said "I guess you not answering my calls or texts for the last week tell me where I stand. I hope your happy in your life, which I'm sure you will be. I'm sorry I wasn't good enough (story of my life). I will be looking for work in (another city FAR from here), and I wish you well.
We will see how this goes after phone call. I still have been very reserved and not showing or actually feeling any emotion at this point.
Nice Tina, good things happening in your sitch. I completely understand being reserved right now. I love the boundaries you laid out, you seem to really know what you want.
I wish you all the best in this current development. So what happened? Don't leave us hanging!
Hey PM, good to see you. And yes I do know what I need and what I want. I have to stay strong this time.
Phone call to OW didn't happen yet as H was called out of town that evening. But he did forward me a message she sent him, which basically said, "What? Your not going to talk to me again?", and He replied, "That's right, leave me alone". He then let me know she had tried to call him twice and he didn't answer. Now tonight the phone call will happen since he will be coming back in town, if it isn't too late and he comes over here.
He is still asking if I will give him another chance, apologized for screwing up the last year of our lives, said he doesn't know what he was doing, but he know this, that he wants me if I'll allow him to show me the kind of H I deserve. He said he knows words are just words, but he has every intention on showing me that he deserves another chance.
Our MC suggested he get on anti depressant about six months ago, and I'm going to suggest he talk to his doctor about that. Also, after this phone call I will ask him to go to IC and MC. We will see how that goes over. Like I told him, I'm not here to punish him for the rest of his life, but I will be doing what is necessary to protect myself and will continue to do things that better me as a person.
I'm still reserved, got my wall built up, taking baby steps. S and I are suppose to take my Mother out for her 75th birthday on Thursday and H asked could he come along. I told him if he'd like to, where and what time we would be there. He is definitely calling me and pursuing me at this point. I do not even have to call his number at all. I have to admit, it's kind of nice, feeling wanted and knowing that I also have decisions to make in this situation.
Have a great evening!
H tried to make that phone call yesterday evening and OW wouldn't answer. I guess I'll have to wait on that, and it may never happen. I'm not going to have keep trying to call her.
Talked to H about anti-depressant and C. He's agreed to both. He is going out to dinner with us tonight. There's been more talk of reconciling on his part. He said he doesn't want to push me but would like to talk about the future.
Am checking out dance classes and the shooting range. Am excited about those things and am also checking out some craft projects that I might like to do. I am working on a pallet headboard for the beach house mermaid room and can't wait to see final product!
Hope everyone has a great day.
Sounds like things are progressing well for you. I wish you the best for whatever comes up next.
That is awesome that he actually is talking about ADs and C. wow. That is a positive step for sure.
You sound busy busy with fun stuff! Awesome.
Take care
H and I started spending more time with each other and staying the night together and talking ALOT, about everything and he was so sweet and everything had been progressing well until two days ago. All of a sudden, H is withdrawing. I ask what's wrong and he claims that since my D(18) hasn't changed (Mind you she doesn't live here anymore) that he knows he will have to live with her actions (Not going to the college he wants her to and having the job he thinks she should have) will affect him for the rest of his life and he doesn't want to be unhappy for the rest of what life he has left. I don't get it. I asked him if he missed the OW? He says not at all. We have both been very open and honest (he leaves his phone for me to see) the last month, but it sure seems to have taken a few steps back over the weekend. I asked him this morning if we were splitting up again and he said "Why are you talking like that?" The only time we have actually had any arguments was about my children, so to me this is another excuse to argue. We did have a argument last night, he doesn't seem to understand, no matter what she will always be my D. Even though I don't agree with alot of things she does, it's out of my control. I don't get it!
Well, looks like I forgave a little too quickly. H is moving out on Christmas Eve. The electric company called to verify new usuage. (We have rentals so I have security code set up on our social security numbers). I confronted him, he originally denied it, then finally came clean. Wanted to have a "peaceful" Christmas. Back to square one. I think it's just time to go file for D. Doesn't even hurt that bad this time, I almost expected it to happen.
Been almost a week. H and I have minimal contact. S is with Aunt until Thursday so we haven't had to be in contact. During this time I'm going dark. But I know when S is back, I can't be dark anymore. This is third time he's moved out in 1 1/2 years. Each time saying that I'm the best woman he's ever known, but he's not happy with my teenage daughter's decisions on job and college. That's the ONLY thing he can come up with. This time he got an apartment 10 miles away, prior he moved into one of our rentals. He has had 3 secret phones (one for each parting), and the last time he begged me to take him back and I did so too quickly. He has texted me he loves me, misses me, etc. I'm so confused. My good friends and family that I've shared with are all ready for me to divorce this man. I am still not at that place. I don't understand how I can still hang on to this. I am starting individual counseling this week and GALing. I'm so hurt that I allowed him to come back home only for him to leave again.
Tina - I am so sorry to read your update. I think that you have a good plan to start individual counseling and GAL. I dont think that you need to jump and make a decision as to whether to file for D at this time. Since you H continues to come and go, it has probably hindered your progress over the past 1 1/2 years. It really is time to focus on yourself! It seems like your H is searching for something that will magically make him happy. He cant find it with you or without you because he has not figured that true happiness comes from within. So while your H searches for something that does not exist, you need to find your own true happiness, whatever that may look like.
You have time on your side. There is not rush to D or R. Take your time.
Hi Tina,
I'm sorry to read that your H is a flip flopper. He's very impulsive but isn't that like all the other WAS? I'm getting off topic...
This must be very difficult for you since it makes you question what part did you take in this. When we're so caught up in the sitch we blame ourselves "why did I take him back so easily?"
Let me start off by stating that his indecisive behavior is not your responsibility but setting boundaries is. Take this opportunity to work on yourself and forget about his emotional baggage that he's carrying. He really needs to work on himself or else he might do this again, and again until you get tired.
Work on rebuilding yourself, your self-esteem. Don't let his disfunctional behavior affect you.
Take care of Tina ;-)
^^^now that's the ticket!
Thank you for the replies. I've been gone for a while from the boards and have had a lot happen since I last posted. He came back in February 2014 and we did very well, in counseling, both IC and MC. Then once again the filp flopper came out and he left in May, the same time my Mother was diagnosed with stage 4 ovarian cancer. She passed away June 19th and he didn't even come to her service. I was so humiliated and felt so disrespected and the disrespect for my Mother is huge. He filed for divorce 8/14 and I got an attorney as well. Then we had started "talking" again about how to work on us and he asked me to attend a marriage boot camp which I reluctantly agreed to. While there the OW would not stop texting. He showed me all the texts and appeared to be giving our M 100%. We attended for 4 days, came back and within two days he was gone back to the OW. We are now sharing our S10, every other week and my son hates going. I had my lawyer put in paperwork no contact with OW, so I don't have a concern there. I honestly don't know what to do at this point. Our D will come slow as we have a lot of assets to split and I've tried to talk to him about splitting them. He refuses. I'm doing the 180 and going dark when I can. Hard because we run a business together and have our S. It's been over 2 years since the A began and this OW seems to have some kind of power of him. I am still in IC, obviously no MC happening right now and he isn't doing IC. Sort of lost, still love him and would love to stay M, but I feel it will always be this way with the back and forth and I will not do that.
I forgot to add when I asked H why he flipped, he said he is torn and doesn't know what to do.
I got a lawyer also. We got temporary orders that allows me to stay in the home with our S10. It's eating him alive that this happened since this was his house prior to meeting me.
He is still actively flip flopping and still seeing OW. I found evidence that he bought her an engagement ring. Can't believe that. He denies that. But she got mad at him and left the receipt in his pick up. Just more evidence for my lawyer.
I'm in the self preserve mode. Set boundaries today with him. Told him do not contact me unless work or child related. Am actively working with my lawyer to split our assets. It's time to move on.
Well I did tell him not to contact me unless it was child or business related. That I'm not doing this to punish him, but to protect myself. I told him I was tired of being strung along.
His reply: "Well I didn't mean to string you along as you say I do I do love you and enjoy being around and with you. I miss our time together."
My reply: ::Crickets::
His: "What you doing?, should have went to work with me today if your bored."
Me: ::Crickets::
His: "I am sorry to have hurt you. I am sorry for you having to feel like that. You deserve better than me."
Me: "Have a great day and a wonderful Thanksgiving. Please tell OW to quit texting me."
Pretty much the conversation. The OW texts me constantly, updating me on their whereabouts and what they are doing and how good the sex is, etc. I've blocked many, many numbers that she uses. I'm saving texts right now to gather enough evidence for harassment charges. I don't understand why, I'm the one not doing anything wrong, but get dealt a plate of shiX.
I'm hoping for a good Thanksgiving with friends and family. Trying hard not to think about what he and OW are doing today. It saddens me to think this is another holiday spent like this.
Texts:
Thursday H: Miss U crazy
Friday H: Just let you know someone cut fence at lot.
Saturday H: Hope you are having a good day
Sunday H: Did a job this morning for $$, u want it?
After a couple hours I responded to last text:
M: The money needs to be put in our business account.
H: Why you got to be a bitxx
M: Do not call me names. I will not tolerate that behavior.
Hours later:
H: U know I really want to come home and work it out that is why I have tried contacting you these pass few days, no response.
M: When and If OW's gone from your life for good. I may entertain the thought of discussing our relationship at that time. Until then, please do not contact me unless it is business or child related. Thanks for understanding.
H: I do understand and you have every right to be that way. I deserve whatever you do to me. I am sorry.
M: This is not being done to punish you, this is being done to protect me.
Then today I get "I miss everything we did together". Have not responded. Have been quite good at the dark thing. I had failed at that in the past but am finding it easier to hold my boundaries.
My question is this. Do I not respond to anything? Do I open the door just a bit or what should I do. I know it's only been a week since I went dark and that's why I'm asking.
Tina -- Stay the course! You're doing great. And remember, you ARE doing this to protect yourself. It's ridiculous what he's putting you through (and what he has put you through in the past) when I see your timeline. You've already wasted plenty of time listening to and believing his nonsense. You're smart enough not to believe him anymore. Good for you!
Wow, you're doing awesome! Keep up the good work!
Some people would kill to be in your shoes, to have the ball in their court. You're showing us all how it's DONE, girl! Way to go!
If you told him once that you don't want contact unless it's child related, I'd stick with it. It's your boundary. The only time I'd respond outside of his attempts otherwise are exactly what you did: "If and when OW is out of your life for good, we can discuss....".
Thanks Ahoy and Little. I'm trying. It's getting easier everyday. I had to go unlock a gate for him yesterday and I swear he looks like he's aged 5 years in a week. Sad eyes.
Oh well, I just smiled, and he thanked me and I left.
Had a minor setback yesterday evening. After dinner, I stopped at corner store with S10 and one of the ladies that works there said, "So I hear your H is still messing with OW?" I replied, "Not sure what he's doing, nor do I care."
Obviously I do care or I wouldn't have texted H. "Nice hearing about you and OW when I take our S places, nice".
Think I will find another store to go to as I really don't need to hear that crap.
I've been dark and now he's texting me like crazy.
Asked me to come eat tomorrow at our beach house. Where he stays when he has our son. I asked was OW still in his life? He said, forget it. I said well as long as she is, I'm not.
Will not be a option for him.
Tina, WOW is all I can say. You are clearly a woman only a fool would leave. Stay your course. Ball is in your Hs court and you've made that crystal clear.
Tina
Dealing with H is one thing, but OW texting you is another. Keep the evidence.
If it had been me I would by now have done a 180 and put the texts on automatic forwarding. To his email if you can because he would respond immediately by text or phone. email would be less easy for him. Plus you can block email responses from him. If that's not possible then manual forwarding. No comment though other than to tell him they are being forwarded.
Glad you are here, keep posting.
Vanilla
Thanks for the responses.
In the last 5 days he has texted more and more. Telling me he loves me, he misses me, he misses all the things we use to do together, etc.
Again, I give the: As long as you are with OW, do not text me these type of messages response.
He is now upset with me because he thinks I had a man in HIS house. Have not heard from him since yesterday morning.
Tina
Good for you. Maintain those boundaries, be firm.
Ignore the rail, H knows the truth, it's just a big rationalisation that you are rejecting him because there is someone else. That's his behaviour not yours. Smile to yourself, it's irrational and not you.
Now OW texting you makes some sense to me, H only seems to want what he can't have. OW is no longer such an attractive proposition to H and she may see it. Possibly roll out next OW?
I got this, apparently my affair is a 72 year old much married female called Jo, who H felt w as a hansome young buck with whom I had a great passion. He still does not know Jo is female and a fellow Rotarian with whom I was arranging parking permits for a concert!
Keep strong
Vanilla
Every one in my area is talking about my hot love life, where it is I have no ideas.
Get dressed real pretty go out have a ball go home alone. Have some fun, h has some work to do. It's nothing you can do for him.
Gg
It's the kick ass red shoes! Only a red hot gg would wear those.
Shhhhh.........
Sees RHC3 on the horizon.
Tons
Vanilla
Shame I missed the romance with the first 2, rolls eyes.
Must say having a canine bf is easy, not high maintence like a real h.
