Any thread with over 100 comments tends to get closed at the weekends.
T1000, yeah I knew it was going to happen soon.
Just found this quote from AnotherStander to 2old, and felt I needed to add it here for me.
Whether you do it or don't do it, you've got to quit worrying about what her reaction is going to be. This isn't a chess game where every little move might lead to victory or defeat. She's a WAS, she's done. Nothing you do right now is going to make an impression on her right NOW (although it might later). You need to have confidence in yourself, do what you think is right and do it with NO expectations because you are confident that you are being true to yourself. If you send a message and you get no reply, you should still be able to think to yourself "well she's a WAS and she's following the WAS script, but what I did was the right thing and I'm glad I did it." Make sense?
Why do you like what AS said there?
I spent 12 months doing things hoping it would create change in W. I was living for R with W. It's what a lot of the LBS does whether 20 vets tell them to or not.
I have found that with DB you don't understand the parts you are working on until you have moved through it.
That's why taking the vets advice is so important. If we could do it ourselves then why are we on here?
T1000, I like it because it is something to continue remembering what I need to do or think about. It isn't a game of chess, doesn't matter if she visits the boys, or does her own thing during the holidays. There is no points being scored.
I also like the idea (the way it was written) that the WAS is done and nothing I do is going to make an impression to her now.
I need to show more confidence and accept no expectations from her. A big one to learn there.
It comes down to bit by bit, I am not doing as many things or thinking as many things, with the hope of R with the W. Decisions are being made for me, not for us.
Thats the best attitude. Become awesome either way.
HWA,
Well it looks like a lot of caring people grabbed the question about the place you live! That’s good – I do hope you have been thinking – I know you have!
Your personal HR-inquisition is almost ready to judge – How are you doing?
Got the books?
Fingers, legs and arms crossed!
F
F, thanks for the look in. Books haven't arrived yet. Remember I am out in the sticks. Ha ha.
I do agree a lot of caring people asked about the transfer.
I am doing fine with regards to HR advising about the transfer. Less than 48 hours now.
Thanks for the fingers, legs and arms crossed.
All the best also for your surgery.
Yea what AS said there was totally correct...Im on 5 months this week and I have been n/c for the past month. Thanks to many ppl here I know you can only do for yourself. I also know NO EXPECTATIONS....With the n/c I have begun to feel better also. HWA hope you get your transfer, I've been reading...
Funny moment: had my first dream about the W since BD.
In the dream we were in her solicitors office, with W wanting me to sign the divorce papers. The reason she gave for wanting the divorce was that she needed time off to recover from her breast reduction. WTF?
My question to her was how the heck do you justify wanting a divorce because of a breast reduction, and then why the heck do you need a breast reduction.
Dreams can be so funny.
The dream can be funny if viewed that way, HWA. Dreams do have messages in them.
Know about the image of people who are full of self-importance? It's usually when their chests are inflated and puffed up.
To me, your recent dream about W is telling you that her ego is deflated and feeling defeated.
That's a way of looking at the dream Wonka, can you expand on that more?
Dream interpretation is not an exact science because one item (i.e. baseball bat) can mean different things to different people depending on their situations and experience.
However, there are some messages that do come clear in the dream state.
For example, a woman wakes up feeling agitated after dreaming of her boyfriend standing on a pile of leaves or holding some leaves in his hands. She's picking up on the fact that her boyfriend is actually thinking about leaving her.
To me, in the dream of your W having a breast reduction could mean a number of things:
1) Reduced sense of self-worth
2) Reduced sense of self-importance
3) Reduced sense of self as your W hence the divorce in the attorney's office
4) W could have a skewed set of priorities
Not knowing what's going on with W, all you can do is acknowledge the dream and file it away.
Sometimes I've found that when I DO remember my dreams [I don't always do], I try to understand those messages and file them away. At a later time when something comes up or a situation comes to fruition, then I have an "ahhhhh" moment about my dream and piece it all together. In my case, they usually happen weeks or months later on.
That you for that Wonka. In regards to the breast reduction, she actually had one at age 16. Anyway, will file it away. It is very rare for me to remember dreams also.
My question to her was how the heck do you justify wanting a divorce because of a breast reduction, and then why the heck do you need a breast reduction.
BWAAAHAAAHAA! Oh man, thank goodness I didn't have anything in my mouth because I would have spit it all over my computer when I read that! Classic!
To me, in the dream of your W having a breast reduction could mean a number of things:
1) Reduced sense of self-worth
2) Reduced sense of self-importance
3) Reduced sense of self as your W hence the divorce in the attorney's office
4) W could have a skewed set of priorities
Not knowing what's going on with W, all you can do is acknowledge the dream and file it away.
Except it was HWA's dream, not his W's.
AS,
Except it was HWA's dream, not his W's.Yes, I am clear on that one.
Hi HWA. I followed you over from 2old's thread. I thought you were a bit quiet and wondered if you'd already gone on holiday. However I now know that your old thread was locked down
At least I've found you again
That dream was so funny
It's as mad as the dreams I have about my H. I've had weird dreams about my H, but I can't remember any of them, lol. I get weird dreams full stop anyway
TTD180, holidays in 3 days time. Transfer info in less than 24 hours time.
I have been thinking about you all day - hoping for the best!
Still crossing what I have got to cross!
F
Well the transfers came in and I am going back to the city for next year. Such a huge relief has hit.
I can feel like I am in some control of my life now. It still was very emotional opening my email about the transfer, as it still feels like I am walking away from my wife.
I certainly accept that she is the one who left me and I have tried very hard for the last 11 months to do positives for us, but it simply hasn't happened.
Whatever the case, finding out about the transfer, opened up a lot of emotions when I did read it.
I have decided I won't be telling the W about the transfer, and if she does ask/texts then I will wait the 48hrs, ask the forum and still probably feel that it is no longer her right to know these things.
Thanks T1000, after some early morning emotions, it is an awesome feeling now.
It's funny how emotions flow through us quite hard during times like this. I had a massive wave of emotion when W brought up a quick D yesterday even though I had been thinking about it for while.
Luckily the longer your at this the quicker it flows on past.
I agree with T. Sometimes I think I am doing fine and then the smallest thing will trigger waves of emotion. Probably because it is constantly in the back of your mind.
You are doing great things for yourself, so hang in there.
Great news HWA, sounds like this is just what you needed. Probably will help you help out greatly emotionally also. Something different for a change gives you o ther things to concentrate on............
FANTASTIC NEWS!!!
GREAT!!!!
I am so happy and so relieved on your behalf!!
Those beers and sunsets!
F
Thank you all.
Pudmuddle: so true, it is the smallest of things that set you off.
2old: it is exactly what I needed.
F: Thank you heaps, we now have the verandah for those beers and sunset, overlooking the pool. I cannot offer the sheeps and cows at my house though. Good luck with the op if you get the chance to read before going.
Folks, I will be going on holidays in less than 24 hours. Most probably with very little internet connection. I won't be back to my house until the 6th October.
So no need to worry about me, I am in a very good place. Looking forward to seeing my sons, friends and going to visit a place (Melboune) that I haven't seen before.
Will be enjoying lots of great coffee and chocolate, buying some new sized clothes and simply enjoying the holiday with an old school friend.
In twelve weeks time I will be back in the city, hopefully in my own home (depends on the tenants moving out) and most importantly riding my motorbike.
Hey HWA. That's great news. Have a wonderful holiday. Sounds like you are well and truely ready for one. You will enjoy Melbourne, plenty of great cafes and places to eat and things to do. Life's good!
With that I've gotta mention I've just come home from sea kayaking at Byron Bay. Wow what an adventure, but tired so tired, the swell was up and we were paddling into the wind on the way back. Phew!! Sightings of dolphins and whales just metres from our kayaks made it more than worthwhile. CU on your return.
That would have been so great GALbaby. And yes I am well and truly ready for a holiday.
PS: The nuts book still hasn't arrived, so no chance of reading that during my holidays. At least it will (should) be here for when I get back.
HWA,
ENJOY the holiday and life in general! Once again congrats on the transfer!
All the best
F
Enjoying my holiday in melbourne, but hate that I am still thinking so much about the W.
HWA,
Glad to hear that you enjoy Melbourne-time!
I understand you about thinking of W! I do that as well – ALL the time!
It has helped me a lot to think of these thoughts as totally normal, totally understandable and totally acceptable. Most the times when hit by these I am now able to just think: “Oh, hello thought welcome again”
I believe the more you fight them or react emotionally to them the harder it will be to get rid of them!
If you weren’t thinking about her or sit I would be concerned so just let them come, greet them and bid them farewell when they leave again. Like you would do with a friendly neighbor. I mean this quite literally! When they hit you think or say “Hello there” to yourselves and then smile to yourself – big smile!
Works for me – give it a go!
All the best - enjoy!
F
I agree with F, give the thoughts some time inside your head rather that fight them. Then move onto the next thing.
Thanks F and T1000. Most thoughts are simply "what this would have been like if she was here".
Otherwise still doing good.
Funny thing that did happen. I liked the tattoo shop on Facebook many weeks ago. Yesterday they sent a request for a person to contact them on their page. It was the wife's friend they were chasing. I could think of so many things it could be, but really who cares. The friend tries to remain very secretive, but sometimes it doesn't work.
Thanks F and T1000. Most thoughts are simply "what this would have been like if she was here".
Otherwise still doing good.
I find that too, every time it's a special occasion like birthdays, parties and even a funeral.
T, HWA
I have them ALL the time! In the morning when doing lunchboxes and the codependency hits me, when D6 is sad and her hurt hits me, when I have put the children to sleep and I am alone downstairs and the missing love hits me, when I have good times and bad times, when new stuff happens....just all the time!
I think this is totally normal and we just have to welcome these thoughts. They will disappear but that will take a loooong time.
Take care and enjoy the weekend!
F
F, I think you are so right about these thoughts being so normal. They will disappear (and sometimes they are being reduced)over time.
Really been thinking about other relationships over the last week. Not that I want to rush in to another one, but more on the side of what do I do if I am given an option.
For example: I have a female friend that I have known for over 10 years, she has been single for that time due to most likely having a severely disabled daughter (not that it is a valid reason). But at times it has been made or offered that friends with benefits could be a possibility. How to deal with that??
Do I take up the friends with benefit offer, or continue to wait for my W.......to do what? Do I wait until a divorce is given? Or do I go with the view that I still love my wife, but, there is a good chance she is in a relationship or if not, she has made no effort to even look at us being a couple again. Do I not take up the option and miss out on some closeness that I am so missing?
F, I think you are so right about these thoughts being so normal. They will disappear (and sometimes they are being reduced)over time.
Really been thinking about other relationships over the last week. Not that I want to rush in to another one, but more on the side of what do I do if I am given an option.
For example: I have a female friend that I have known for over 10 years, she has been single for that time due to most likely having a severely disabled daughter (not that it is a valid reason). But at times it has been made or offered that friends with benefits could be a possibility. How to deal with that??
Do I take up the friends with benefit offer, or continue to wait for my W.......to do what? Do I wait until a divorce is given? Or do I go with the view that I still love my wife, but, there is a good chance she is in a relationship or if not, she has made no effort to even look at us being a couple again. Do I not take up the option and miss out on some closeness that I am so missing?
I don't think friends with benefits is for someone wanting closeness. It's for someone wanting sex.
I think you're way too caught up in your W to do anything like that right now.
My advice would be to wait a little longer until at least your W isn't jumping around your head every day.
If it is put out there you can always just say your still getting over what has happened and you're not ready.
The choice is yours HWA, just make sure you realize what you are getting into. No pun intended
HWA,
What are your own thoughts on this issue?
F
Congrats on the transfer :)))
But at times it has been made or offered that friends with benefits could be a possibility. How to deal with that??
Do I take up the friends with benefit offer, or continue to wait for my W.......to do what? Do I wait until a divorce is given? Or do I go with the view that I still love my wife, but, there is a good chance she is in a relationship or if not, she has made no effort to even look at us being a couple again. Do I not take up the option and miss out on some closeness that I am so missing?
First, don't "wait" for your W. Standing isn't waiting. It's moving on with your life while leaving the door open to possible reconciliation.
Second, it's strictly up to you as to whether you want to engage in a new R, and what the nature of that R is. I tend to agree with T that if you want closeness, you're probably not going to get it in a FWB R, so keep that in mind. My personal take on D is that the "real" D happens a long time before the paperwork version, so I haven't let the lack of the paperwork D (which is currently underway) dissuade me from dating. But each person has a different take on this, so you've got to decide what yours is.
T1000, I am still caught up in my wife. Therefore I wonder if going this way would help me getting over her?
The friend isn't insisting of benefits, more the way of mutual thoughts it could go that way.
I still think that I haven't seen or heard from the wife for 3 months, apart from my one text that wasn't replied. I haven't seen or heard from any of her family or the good friend for even longer. My comment about waiting for the wife was more tongue in cheek, rather than a feeling.
My thoughts on the friend. We have been very close for more than 10 years. She has known my wife that long as well. all our visits have been the wife and I together, so I suppose she knows the wife quite well.
The friend is quite peeved off with the wife and family and their behaviour. The friend is very supportive and the benefit thing may simply be imagination running wild. What do I think about it. Scared and worried, as it feels that what ever action I take I seem to be the bad person in the marriage, or whatever it is now. The wife could be in a relationship with this other woman since day one, but as soon as I find someone, then typical me doing the wrong thing - not even divorced yet. While I am not so worried about her families views as much, both my boys are with them quite a lot and could hear a lot of stuff.
AS, the wait for the wife comment was a tongue in cheek moment, rather than should I wait for her.
I wouldn't have agreed with you about the divorce happens way before the paperwork a few weeks ago, but would agree with you know.
I can only speculate my wife wants nothing to do with me or our marriage at all. It is probably to her benefit that I leave the country and go back to the city.
As for the friend with benefits, then it is simple, I won't be initiating anything, and will have to think carefully if or when an offer comes.
HWA,
I fought and fought with full self-awareness of getting on that slipper slope. It takes every ounce of strength and self-control not to slip. Back then, I recognized the reasons for wanting to date again so soon...it was because I felt lonely and needy. Not very good reasons to date again, eh.
You want to date because you feel good about yourself and ready to give again. I suspect that your cup is pretty empty now and might not be able to give yourself to another woman. Even as "friends with benefits." In that case, it may leave an unpleasant aftertaste in your mouth.
Just something to think about as it will involve other people.
Would that be fair to them?
Just an update on the holidays.
Got my tax done, the wife was booked to be there but she didn't turn up. Decided to be very civil and allow half the investments to be claimed for her tax as well, even though I have paid for everything since the BD.
Spent some dinner time with both boys, and then individual time with them also. Importantly no discussion about the wife with them at all. Still disappointed either didn't ask about me, the holiday in Melbourne or even if I am transferring.
Organised some trees to be removed from the house I am coming back to, also new gates and the roof steam cleaned. All able to be claimed on next years tax.
Couple of questions to ask.
1. How do I prepare myself for seeing the wife and her family at my sons 21st at the end of the month? Especially when I don't get any practice at this. My personal view is act neighbourly, if asked mention I do not want to discuss anything apart from how are you, and that reply will always be "great". But I know my emotions will be hard to control outwardly, not anger emotion more tearing up emotion.
2 when should I tell the boys about my transfer? At this stage I haven't because the wife will then probably find out, and while it shouldn't change anything, I have this feeling in the pit of my stomach about her finding out could cause issues.
3 didn't ever believe I would be at this point in my marriage, but the BD is 12months in 3 weeks time.
Thanks Wonka for the input. I would probably tend to agree with you. Generally it was just something I brought up to get peoples views. In all honesty I would still thinking too much about the missus to enjoy myself anyway.
HWA
1. How do I prepare myself for seeing the wife and her family at my sons 21st at the end of the month? Especially when I don't get any practice at this. My personal view is act neighbourly, if asked mention I do not want to discuss anything apart from how are you, and that reply will always be "great". But I know my emotions will be hard to control outwardly, not anger emotion more tearing up emotion.
Prepare by doing mental exercise visioning you doing great at the party! Psycho Cybernetics contains a lot on this subject.
Stay away from the alcohol
Be rested - sleep
Exercise before the party.
Practice smiling until the smile stays on your face.
Plan a little ahead so you know who you will seek out and address.
Leave early but not to early.
I teach salespeople about the 4 times 20 because first impressions last.
Focus on and practice:
The top 20 cm (your head): Make it neat and put a smile on it, nod when people talks…..
The first 20 words: Practise them!! Practice answers for “How are you” What have you been up to” and other ice-breaking questions and so on. What will you ask people about?
The first 20 paces: Walk tall, confident and not around in the corners
The first 20 sec: The time it takes people to make their picture of you! Focus on this everytime you greet a new person.
Still remember to be HWA! Don’t change you – just show the best part!
I agree on the neighborly but I don’t think you should actually say “I don’t want to discuss……” – just don’t do it! Shift the subject! Your emotions should be stoved away on this occasion and I know this one will be hard on you – but you can do it!
2 when should I tell the boys about my transfer? At this stage I haven't because the wife will then probably find out, and while it shouldn't change anything, I have this feeling in the pit of my stomach about her finding out could cause issues.
You fear these issues so much that you haven’t shared this major thing with your sons????
Why is that? – I would say tell them now!
What are these issues you fear?
What do you fear the most: Issues from W or you son asking you “Dad, why didn’t you want to share this with me?”
About the FWB I agree with others and you: You do not seem ready for this. Wonka hit the nail perfectly IMO. On the other hand keep on seeing her and enjoy the time and company.
Still disappointed either didn't ask about me, the holiday in Melbourne or even if I am transferring.
Boy’s 18y and 20y – why would they? They properly even don’t remember that you have applied. You are the farther – show them the high road!
Pulling!
F
F, thanks as always. In reply to your feedback.
1. There will be no alcohol anyway, I am driving. The rest of your suggestions are pretty normal for me, but will continue reading psycho book for help with the emotions.
2. I think my biggest fear about telling the boys, is that the wife will find out and this in turn will somehow advance the asset selling or divorce papers. I am not against telling the boys at all. Also don't think the boys would say anything about not telling them. Will think quite hard this weekend about telling them.
3. FWB isn't an issue either, seriously, I think if a supermodel offered herself I would struggle emotionally. Apologies to the ladies out there :-)
4. I have been focusing on the boys not asking about me because of their age. It just hurts when no one asks how you are, or even cares.
Holidays are now over, back to the country tomorrow, with only 10 weeks left.
Back in the country now.
Hold onto your nuts book arrived, so will start reading tonight.
Thank goodness no letter from the solicitor. Any ideas why no reply from the solicitor? The W sent one over 3 months ago, I replied to her request and gave my view/options, but nothing since. Is this normal? Was she just checking out what I would request?
Decided to tell the boys about the transfer in 3 weeks time, when I go back to the city for my sons 21st. I would prefer to do it face to face rather than over the phone. Unless they ask beforehand.
No FWB stuff occurred during my holidays, I really don't feel comfortable about it, especially while I am still recognised (by paperwork) to be still married.
Other than that, I am feeling ok about everything. Had a bad day yesterday, but it happens.
Have read the first chapter of the N.U.T.S book that was suggested. A very good read, makes a lot of sense.
I love how you call it the Pschyo book!
T1000, I think I was on the Ipad when typing that, so reduced it's name - but that shortened title somehow fits.
I forget to mention a good moment coming back in the plane to the country. Normally I have the magazine to read or the Ipad to play game on, simply say hello to the person next to me and that's it. This time is was a woman next to me, a couple of years younger, and yes, she was married. But we struck up a conversation that went for the entire 1 1/2 hour trip. She was interested in learning to ride a motorbike, she was coming to the country for a nursing 20th anniversary and lots more. It was great to simply listen to someone and ask questions about them. At one time she asked about me, my family etc. I simply replied my wife separated from me last year and I didn't continue on that path. That felt good as well. No let me tell you my story.....sob....sob.
Hey HWA! Sorry I've just come across your new thread, didn't realise that you'd had the old thread closed
I did wonder where you were, lol. 6 pages already! I can't keep up with you, lol. Last time I heard from you, you were going on holiday. Did you have a nice time? I see you're off again somewhere else
Well done for not going into the whole story with the woman on the plane
TTD180, no I am not on holidays again. The plane flight story was coming back to the country.
Had a great time on the holiday, visiting a city I haven't been to in many, many years. It has changed so much. Drank lots of coffee, ate lots of chocolate and bought some new clothes. Visited all the tourist destinations.
Came back to the city, spent time with both boys. Didn't see or hear from the family (W's) or the supposedly best friend. Did have some expectation the friend might have contacted me. Doesn't matter, at least I know where I stand.
Also have put my name down for the half marathon in March next year. Since I will be back in the city, then lots of runs will be available. This will be my first half. Looking forward to it.
So did you get your transfer then? If so congrats, I'm really pleased for you
Sorry I'll try and catch up tomorrow, It's 11 o'clock here and I think I need to go to bed as I'm up at 6am! lol.
Glad you had a good holiday
I know what it's like to lose a friend, not nice at all
Good luck for the half marathon next year, I have great faith in you that you can do it
Yes TTD180, the transfer came in. It was a very emotional day when I found it. As much as I had prepared for it, the emotion hit hard. I know the W is gone, but it still feels like I am walking away from her with this transfer. I know it is for the best to move back home and it is positive. Just hurts.
So mixed emotions then? Glad you got the transfer you wanted
It's not all bad though, she could still want a R in the future and may move to where you are going to be. A fresh start for both of you
Thanks TTD180. It is still very mixed emotions, as much as I know the separation is all her choice, it still feels like I have chosen to walk away from her with this transfer. I am not focusing on it as being me the one to walk away, just simply an emotion around it.
I would have stayed if there was a glimmer of hope from her. But with no contact from her for so long, I cannot make the choice to stay, but to move on and make me a better person. To also spend more quality time with my sons.
In saying that, just a few questions to everyone.
1. When I tell my boys I am transferring, do I also mention that I cannot stay when the W isn't interested? Or do I say that I have tried all I could while in the country, but have come back for them (my boys)? Or not mention the W at all, just simply say I am coming home?
2. Should I tell the W about the transfer? If so, how should I mention it? Letter, email, phone (though she probably wont answer) or organise a face to face meeting?
These are just questions in my mind, not things that I necessarily want to do now. Just thinking ahead.
These are just questions in my mind, not things that I necessarily want to do now. Just thinking ahead.
I believe that planning and thinking ahead is a good thing so IMO just keep on doing that!
1. When I tell my boys I am transferring, do I also mention that I cannot stay when the W isn't interested? Or do I say that I have tried all I could while in the country, but have come back for them (my boys)? Or not mention the W at all, just simply say I am coming home?
I wouldn’t mention W at all! As I have read you: You are looking forward to coming back to the city, your house, your bike and so on but most importantly your boys.
Every time you mention W in front of your son’s you risk putting blame on her. If you mention W not being interested you are doing exactly that. Don’t go down that road.
2. Should I tell the W about the transfer? If so, how should I mention it? Letter, email, phone (though she probably wont answer) or organise a face to face meeting?
IMO No! If she contacts you then tell her otherwise don’t. She will know shortly after you tell this to the world anyway.
If at some point you tell her then remember that you did this for you, to move on with your life – not because she hasn’t shown interest yet.
Stay on the path!
F
I agree with Fartiltre here
When I read your original post without seeing F's reply then I was thinking how to reply it myself. F said what I was going to say
I wouldn't make a big song and dance about it with the boys. Just tell them that you're coming home and leave it at that
A bit of you must be excited with this new venture and it's a brand new start for you
When do you move?
Thanks F and TTD180. Your answers are the way I was thinking about those questions. Again amazing how our change happens in the sitch's.
I am sure once the boy's know I am transferring, then she will be told by one of them. That is fine. They do know I applied many months ago for the transfer.
With regards to talking to the boy's about why the transfer, I don't want to put any blame on the W. But I do kind of want to state my position in this sitch and how I have tried so many different ways. Yes, I agree I shouldn't still say anything, it is just that horrible sense of feeling that if one of the boys ask many years down the track, it is only then that they might understand what I have tried to do. I get the feeling at this time, it is simply "mum left because of dad" and that's it.
*****But don't worry, no talk to the boys about anything other than the transfer. No discussion why I am not staying, nor discussion about the W**********
I am getting so much better at all of this now. Still sad, still sorry, still wish the W would do something....anything, but also realising the reality of our marriage.
Sorry TTD180, I didn't answer your questions.
A bit of you must be excited with this new venture and it's a brand new start for you
When do you move?
Yes, a bit of me is very excited to be going back home, don't see it as too much of a new start. Some things will be new, more I will be seeing me as a new person. When do I move? Don't have exact dates yet, because of the tenants in the house. At this stage I finish school on the 13th December and generally we are expected to move out within a few days of that date. All our belongings, would have or should have, been picked up by the moving company employed by the education department. The tenants are contracted until the 24th January, but are aware of the situation, and have been for the last two years, and have advised they will probably leave around the end of November. So hopefully I will finish up here on the 13th, and literally move straight into the house. Then spend most of my holidays unpacking and getting my stuff that has been stored at different people's houses.
At least I will be busy.
HWA,
But I do kind of want to state my position in this sitch and how I have tried so many different ways. Yes, I agree I shouldn't still say anything, it is just that horrible sense of feeling that if one of the boys ask many years down the track, it is only then that they might understand what I have tried to do. I get the feeling at this time, it is simply "mum left because of dad" and that's it.
You had me worried there for a moment, but then I read the below!
*****But don't worry, no talk to the boys about anything other than the transfer. No discussion why I am not staying, nor discussion about the W
I understand you so well – I have the same thoughts! This is about you (and me) being able to look at ourselves and say. I did all I could! I did wrong while we were married and there was not a place in Ws heart for another chance or forgiveness. I have forgiven myself and her!
If we can do that we will be all right and our children won’t need to know anything.
I know you read Bug’s piecing post – nothing is determined until you call it!
I am getting so much better at all of this now.
You have come such a long way the last 3 months or so and reading the above is great. I won’t even try to guess how you would have handled this a while ago!
Your post in LJC’s thread…..
Though the difference in me is a few months or weeks ago I would have been struggling with this question, now it is just simply a question.
…also shows this!
I think you are doing so well.
Still sad, still sorry, still wish the W would do something....anything, but also realising the reality of our marriage.
That’s exactly how I feel these days. I feel sad and sorry but the hurt from 2 months ago is much less these days.
Cows and sheeps – we will come out all right on the other side! What ever happens!
All the best!
F
I am getting so much better at all of this now. Still sad, still sorry, still wish the W would do something....anything, but also realising the reality of our marriage.
I feel like this as well and I think that it's worse when you've got events coming up like birthdays and Christmas. I wish that my H would realise the importance of marriage and family. Keep working on yourself as I'm trying to do, it's all us LBS can do at the mo
I've recommended a book on my thread if you want to pop over and have a look
I'm getting away from relationship help books at the mo to concentrate on me!
1. When I tell my boys I am transferring, do I also mention that I cannot stay when the W isn't interested? Or do I say that I have tried all I could while in the country, but have come back for them (my boys)? Or not mention the W at all, just simply say I am coming home?
Don't mention W, make it all about the boys. You're coming back for them, because you miss them and want to spend more time with them. I mean it's the truth, but they may not know it. So tell them. WAS's need to be shown actions, not words, but that doesn't apply to your boys. They need words backed up by actions.
2. Should I tell the W about the transfer? If so, how should I mention it? Letter, email, phone (though she probably wont answer) or organise a face to face meeting?
Do your boys still live with W? If so, I'm sure as part of this you're hoping to see them more. That will no doubt involve some coordination with your W. I would let her know. Just send her an email and keep it brief- "just wanted to let you know I'm relocating back to the area". That will break the ice for further communications later regarding the boys.
AS,
As I recall HWAs boys doesn’t live with his W and there have been almost no comm what so ever (including boys) for a long time.
F
Thanks for your feedback AS. The boys don't live with the W. When I move back, myself and the boys will be almost 1000km away from the W. I will tell them I am coming back to be with them. Nothing about the W will be mentioned.
Yes, I am hoping to see them more. Also hoping that they will in turn come and see me, rather than me doing all the chasing/ringing etc. But being young adult boys, I have to accept it may be the case that I am doing all the work.
AS, as F mentioned, I haven't communicated, nor has she, with each other for a long time now. The boys are talked to every week and usually text/facebook every few days. I believe the W does the same.
Very much enjoying the N.U.T.S. book. Very easy to read and understand. Simple things to change ourselves.
N.U.T.S book? What's that one? yet another one to add to my ever growing list of books
lol. I need to have books that will work on me instead of my relationship, so this sounds perfect for me
No TTD180, this book is completely focused on us men. But yes, it is a working on me book, rather than a relationship one.
well that's a bit sexist! lol. Isn't there an equivalent one for women?
I wonder what the acronym would be?
I dread to think! I'm not sure what words they'll let me put on here so I'd better not
Lol Well if you don't get banned for saying that JonF, then I'll say what I was going to say and that's B.O.O.B.S. lol
The boys don't live with the W. When I move back, myself and the boys will be almost 1000km away from the W.
Gotcha. In that case I agree with you and F, don't say anything to her about it. She's removed herself from the picture at this point unfortunately.
Yes, I am hoping to see them more. Also hoping that they will in turn come and see me, rather than me doing all the chasing/ringing etc. But being young adult boys, I have to accept it may be the case that I am doing all the work.
I suspect that if you do the work initially, then eventually they will reciprocate. The 5 Love Languages techniques don't just work on spouses, it's the same kind of deal with kids. You fill their love tanks and they'll WANT to fill yours.
I agree totally with AS
Do the work and hope for them to return the love.
Doing that work now, or have been for a while. Just sent them a random pm on facebook saying how proud I am of their latest achievements. They are both probably shocked they haven't seen me be angry, depressed or whinging for so long.
Good work HWA
Bet they can't wait to see you after all this PMA!
I hope TTD180. I suppose part of everything we are trying to do with the DB, is also recognising where we have gone wrong in life. While I still did lots of things with my boys, maybe (who knows the history anymore) I should have put more effort into positive feedback to them. Also my wife should have been given more positive feedback.
All I can do is continue to grow and improve myself.
All I can do is continue to grow and improve myself.
That's all we can do
Busy weekend. Need to itemise all my furniture and belongings for when the company comes to transport them back home. It is a very long job to do. It's amazing how much this hits home that I am going back home, but it'a also strange I am not worrying to much about the W now.
Speaking of the W, for a few weeks now, I have been up and done about whether I really do want her back. Don't get me wrong, I miss her and love her heaps. Just the simple fact of could I learn to live with her again, to spend each day with her again, to TRUST her again.
Then there is the "can I put up with her family again" after all the poop that has/is happening with them.
Does anyone else have these type of questions they ask themselves?
Trust will be a big one, as since I still have not found the answer to why she walked out (WAW or EA/PA) and probably won't. The W has shown no normal (if there is such thing) WAW signs, she literally has just put up a wall and that's that. Considering the lead up to the BD was just normal day to day living, it does seem quite strange behaviour (from my point of view). If she is in a EA/PA relationship again, if PA, no outward signs are being shown or talked about. Maybe that is easier for them to work on PA, as they will be in the country by themselves. The W still never really answered my question about being in a relationship when I asked two months ago. She rambled on about different scenario's and things that happened, and how could you think that means they are in a relationship. She simply didn't say yes or no.
It is also hard to understand no asking about my transfer. While it is nice I haven't had to explain at this stage, it still hurts that no one (and I mean no one in the family) has asked about whether I am transferring or not. Since the W and SIL are both teachers, they know the dates and times of transfers. They know I have applied many months ago for the transfer, just simply haven't bothered checking. Again, I am not focusing on this, just simply stating things that are in my mind at times. Not on my mind all the time.
It is still very hard to understand what is happening when there is simply no contact whatsoever. Especially when the BD wasn't from some big nasty thing that occurred. It does though make it easier for me to start moving on, having no contact from the W, not seeing her and not hearing from the family now.
Good time yesterday. Went for a run, got about 1km into the run and met a father of a student from school. We were in the cross country run a few weeks ago together and talk quite regularly about running etc. Anyway it ended up he was going for a 15km run and we decided to run together. Good stuff. Ended up talking (trying to talk) about lots of different things (but no Sitch talk) and I even validated some. I made sure I didn't talk about me, whatever the subject, but simply asked him questions and listened to him talk. It was a good run. Ended up doing about 16kms all up in 1hr and 11min.
Well, need to finish my itemisation and watch the big race today, Bathurst. I don't know whether you hear about this race overseas or even see it on tv, but it is a beauty, the big race of the year. My brother is a volunteer each year and is on the stands at the last corner this year.
Just the simple fact of could I learn to live with her again, to spend each day with her again, to TRUST her again.
Then there is the "can I put up with her family again" after all the poop that has/is happening with them.
Does anyone else have these type of questions they ask themselves?
Yes I have these issues all the time. I think Trust takes time and I think if you do what others have done on here, the main objectives are MC and complete disconnection from the other person.
The other bit about family is what worries me as well. Not his family as I know my MIL is going to be ok about us getting back together (if ever!), but from my family. They've already told me that they won't accept him back into the family again. I know it's between the two of us, but it's hard when your family aren't supporting you. I think this would be one of the reasons why H won't come back.
You're worrying to much about the EA/PA and as said above, she needs to lose all contact with her OM and MC will sort out a lot of issues such as why she left, etc.
These things are on my mind at times as well, it's hard for them not to be! However we're moving on and that's what counts
I've never heard of Bathurst race. My cousin lives in Williamstown and she's not mentioned it. She recently mentioned about the tall ships docking in the harbour!
Couple of more questions to put to the DB group, please humour me.
I know most of the answers, just want to confirm them. And no, I am not wanting desperately to do them.
1. Do I tell the W I am transferring? If so, when, as I leave around the 16th December?
2. My BD anniversary will be on the 24th October, do I send any letter, last chance requests etc.
3. My marriage anniversary is on the 25th November, same thing, do I do anything, send anything or simply ignore?
4. Do I buy presents for the in-laws at Christmas, or ignore them as they have done to me over the last few months?
5. Do I ask/request about the solicitor and why no reply? Or simply let it go until I get a reply? At this stage I don't need to worry about anything, but, in Australia a de-facto can apply for half of the assets (if she is in a relationship).
At this stage in my sitch, I am still standing by a lot of my original ideas: I was not the one who walked out, I will not start the solicitor or force the sharing of assets, and lastly I will not file for divorce. If the W is happy to do all those things, good on her, but I will not do that, as I still have the belief that things can be worked out (maybe a silly belief). I still have the knowledge that if my sons ever ask about the sitch, I will at least feel that I did all possible for the sitch and that I did not force any issues.
That's more than a couple of questions, lol.
First of all have you still n/c with the W or are you getting on at the mo? This will change the answers I give you.
1. What would your W's reaction be if you told her you were transferring? Would you feel better by letting her know? You could always send her a Christmas card with your new address in it. If she needs to get in touch with you then she'll find a way I'm sure.
2. I wouldn't
3. My anniversary was a few days after my H walked out so I didn't acknowledge it at all. If your W acknowledges it then send a thank you email and wish her a happy anniversary as well. Otherwise just ignore the date.
4. They've been ignoring you so I would ignore them. Whatever you do will not build a relationship back up with them anytime soon. My parents will not appreciate a present from my H. Maybe send a card if you want to, but see what the others think first
5. Definitely not! If you've not heard from her solicitor then she may have withdrawn. My H threatened me with a solicitor in June, then realised he couldn't afford it.
I hear what you're saying about the kids knowing that you've done everything you can about the sitch, but believe me they'll know
If it works out in the future then great, if not then you can tell your kids that you tried your best
I know that you've had no contact from your W and they will think that you've not tried your best but I truly believe that you should keep things as they are. You can explain to them all about 180 and DBing if it doesn't work out.
Hope that helps. Feel free to ignore everything I've said
Wait and see what others think as well.
Well HWA, IMHO you dont say anything about anything. Since our sitchs' are somewhat alike (WAW)I will tell you I tried acknowledging our anniversary and only got a response saying she would get back to me on the matter of filing divorce. Which by the way nothing as yet...Then I went thru whether I should email her a happy Bday a month later. I did and when mine came 3 weeks later unbelievably she did not acknowledge mine whatsoever...I said unbelievably because I did not think she would ignore mine.
As far as you have come do you think in your mind you should say anything? I have come to realize my with WAW there is nothing I can say to make anything between us better. She is im her own world and apparently quite happy without me....
I agree with 2old
That's not to say though that things may change between you in the future, just not now. I keep saying this about my H, I know he's still in a MLC fog and so I tell myself it's not going to be next week.
Thanks TTD180 and 2old. As I said, I am pretty comfortable with my own answers, which by the way are the same as both of yours. Just putting these questions out there.
TTD180: Still no contact with the W. We haven't seen each other, talked or messaged since the discussion about the mortgages back in July. Apart from one silly text I sent a few weeks ago - no reply to that anyway. With regards to Q1. She will know the address, it is our house we own. Me telling her won't make a difference to how I feel. The difference would have been if she asked, rather than being told. Her reaction: again it depends on whether she is in a relationship. But I would expect that her reaction would be great, I don't have to see him (not that she does) and more than likely she would be able to focus on being a single person without much history that she would need to explain to people.
2old: I expect the same kind of response from the W. If I contact her, she will start to think again about the solicitor. My W is definitely in her own world and presumably quite happy also without me.
One of the biggest questions I ask myself (and am sure everyone does) is, have I done everything I could/should have? For the last 3 months, no contact from the W, nothing. In that time I sent one text saying "I miss you heaps".
This is my thorn in the rose so to speak. While I am moving on and improving myself, this simple no contact by the W is my mountain to get over, and I don't know how to do it.
I get no info about the W from sons or anyone else (not that I am expecting it), but simply have no idea what she is up to or doing.
So I ask myself, should I keep up the NC, should I do something else, or should I simply just give up?
Again, I am just thinking out aloud and won't be making any rash decisions.
I finished with my DB coach a while ago, as no progress was being made with the W, but have been wondering lately whether to have one more call before moving back home?
HWA, I'm going thru the same thing. WAW hasnt initiated any contact now for 2 months. What contact we did have was by me by email and she did respond but you could tell she was forcing herself. My last contact to her was her bday back in mid september, a simple emailed Happy bday wish and she did thank me. Since there has been nothing and much to my surprise she opted to ignore my bday 3 weeks after hers.
The only option here HWA is to stay n/c. Nothing you can say to her is going to make a difference. She has got to be the one to speak up if she wants to this much I now realize. I am done contacting my WAW it's been a month and I know nothing I say will bring anything of any value.
A female friend had gone thru the same thing with her H. She finally went silent and it was 7 or 8 months later her H finally peeked out and spoke up. They are still trying to see if things will work out.....
So I ask myself, should I keep up the NC, should I do something else, or should I simply just give up?
3 months of NC is a long time. Remember cheeseless tunnels, in DB'ing you're supposed to reevaluate your progress now and then, and keep doing what works and stop doing what doesn't work. I don't think another month or 6 months or year of NC is going to "improve" your position any, so at this point you may want to reach out. That does NOT mean sending her "I miss you heaps" though. You've got to crawl before you can walk and walk before you can run! Maybe something like "hey, haven't talked to you in a while, I hope you are doing well!" Your goal for now should be to establish a friendship, nothing more.
I finished with my DB coach a while ago, as no progress was being made with the W, but have been wondering lately whether to have one more call before moving back home?
I think you should try something new/ different with your W, and a coach can help you determine what that should be, so yes I think it's a good idea.
Very good point...A lesson learned...I just wonder though alot of things said here in DB mention going dark until the squirrel draws near otherwise might be spooked...Some have mentioned staying dark indefinately. Personally I hate n/c but if your getting nowhere do you indeed peek out say every three months or so?
HWA,
IMHO:
WAIT!! - and see what happens at the upcoming party!
BUT:
If you decide to call her then the party could be the reason. Perhaps you could suggest doing something together (gift, song, speech - whatever...that would also be a good thing for your sons)
F
AS, 2old and F, thanks again for the feedback.
AS, I have felt that the MWD books view on trying something different is about due. You are right about sending her a text, something a little bit better than "I miss you heaps".
Again, is going dark and n/c, helping me, even if very slowly?
F, funny you should say wait for the party to be over. That's exactly what I was going to do with the DB coach. Wait and see what the party brings and go from there. I still don't even know if the W is going to the party or not. Remember for us to go, we would have to fly there, I bought tickets for me.
Remember also everyone, in 8 weeks time I will be moving over 1000klms away from the W, and she hasn't even asked whether I got a transfer or not. Not to mention, me moving could be the best thing for her and her EA/PA friend?
Just a little bit more time to think about above comments. In some ways I am scared/worried about the cheeseless tunnels. While I know where I am in the sitch isn't a great place, in someways it feels better than trying to contact her and get nothing in return. It's the getting used to no expectations that is the normal now, but if I start to text, then I will start to get my expectations up.
If that makes sense.
Its a bit like: the devil I do, the devil I don't
Who knows what to do "shrugs". You think you're doing everything right, then something comes along to throw a spanner in the works!
HWA,
Just want to let you know that I think it is so great seeing you work through this contact or no contact.
You have all the emotions but you do not act on them and now you even start to predict how an action will make you feel later on!
You ask for advice and then you stop and think about the advice given. Just a few months ago you asked for advice and acted before it was given.
You have come a loooong way – well done!
F
Thanks F, I appreciate that.
I have actually contacted DB to organise another coaching session before the son's birthday in two weeks time.
I agree with F
Well done
Just a little bit more time to think about above comments. In some ways I am scared/worried about the cheeseless tunnels. While I know where I am in the sitch isn't a great place, in someways it feels better than trying to contact her and get nothing in return. It's the getting used to no expectations that is the normal now, but if I start to text, then I will start to get my expectations up.
If that makes sense.
Its a bit like: the devil I do, the devil I don't
I can completely relate to this! My husband moved out in the beginning of Aug and the only communication we've had is when I message him. We have talked 3 times online and that's it. Haven't heard a word from him from text/ phone/ etc.
We don't have any kids so there's really no pressing issues that we need to be in contact for.
When I think about it, I think for me its the fear of being rejected if I try to call or text and don't get a reply that keeps me dark. It would feel like a fresh wound to heal and I'm already trying to protect my heart from being destroyed even further.
Thanks for joining in lostinpgh. Rejection is very hard, especially coming from someone you love so much, which in turn does destroy your heart even more.
Ok, update time.
Have booked for another 3 sessions with DB coach. Looking forward to this. Will possibly try to get these sessions done before my move in 8 weeks time.
Will keep you updated. First session is Monday afternoon your time.
Will start a new topic title over the weekend as well.
That's good news
I look forward to hearing what the coaches have to say
I just felt like bringing this into your own thread:
Somehow, I feel this is what is happening with my W. She probably expected I would move on by now, expected me to be angry and say nasty things behind her back, to buy the house off her or sell it, and to start divorce proceedings. Since I haven't done any of these, she only has the last option, to ignore me.
You could be right but the case is that she just can’t keep on doing that! She can do it for now, but not for ever! The two of you are hooked up in a house and more important your sons – you will have to interact!
I think this long period of NC that you have had will serve you good when you finally do meet up and talk. The impact on her of the changes you made will be much stronger. I don’t know where the two of us will end up but one thing is totally certain and that is that it will be a new life and our Ws will be a part of them.
The insights gained and the mountains climbed will make us stronger and better and perhaps Ws will see that one day.
Also this one:
I am so jealous of the amount of GAL stuff you can manage to do, either with your kids or by yourself. It's fantastic and can only help heal you quicker and better.
First: Thanks for the kind words! 25mlc hammered me some months ago about this and I have been working hard on this.
I know your worries about moving but when you get to the city promise me to do this work!!! It feels totally awkward at first because you suddenly takes all these initiatives but my experience is that when people see it is consistent they suddenly start to invite and take initiatives. I have gone from almost nothing to turning down invitations, my friends call me before setting a date and ask if I will be able to make it and so on – it feels great and it is all about focus and initiative.
Due to this I believe that city will be so good for you!
Make yourself a nice set of goals on this one!
Great news about the coach! I think C will be amazed when they talk to you now and I think it will do you good to actually talk to a human being for an hour without minding words, tone and all of that
F
Thanks again F. I am really looking forward to going back to the city. My plans, goals and GAL.
Even simple things like fixing the house up, will do wonders. But most importantly, the GAL will be getting out with people.
In a way the W probably can keep ignoring me: the house is owned mostly by the bank, so selling it at this time is a loss (with the house prices being down), very little equity. She is comfortable about mortgage payments since I am doing them all. And since she doesn't want any of the furniture or other belongings, what is she missing?
She literally has walked away from it all, without it seems, a care about any of it.
She gets to talk and see the boys, and I believe her interactions is the same as before BD. She is living her life the way she wants to be, or so it seems.
It will be me that most probably will have to force the issue of paying for the mortgage or splitting the assets. And I think she knows that and is playing that card.
Again I could simple be mindreading about it all. Still it will be good to speak to the coach, especially with my new attitude and/or less emotion in the sitch.
Good luck with your upcoming coaching sessions! I hope all goes well and you can gain some new insight.