It's been a few months since I've posted but long story short, last year my W had an affair with a client of hers. It ended after about 6 months which eventually led to her coming home. I accepted that blindly, being happy that she wanted to come home, and we never went to MC or dealt with any of our issues that had come to the surface through her affair. By March of this year things had turned rocky again when contact with OM resurfaced and since we've had this weird in-house separation thing going where she's sleeping in a guest room. Contact with OM stopped about two months ago after I confronted him which she was furious about but I had to do something.
At that point she basically sat me down and told me that she didn't want to be married anymore and wanted a divorce. It's not the first time she said it but its usually when she gets to the point where she had enough. Each time she basically wants me to give in and say, "Okay, let's end this" but I haven't and won't. I've told her that. It's not that I want to fight with her through any proceedings but I'm just not at the place where I want to end our marriage. This most recent time I told her that if it is really something she wants then she shouldn't wait for me to do something about it. Learn about the process, talk to a lawyer, etc. I almost get the sense that when she does say it it's to scare me and back off because when I told her to go ahead and talk to a lawyer, that's actually when things turned around for us.
Since then up until about two weeks ago, we've been getting along, she would initiate contact and making plans, rather then spending all her time downstairs I'd come home and she'd be waiting to talk to me about her day and so on. She is still sleeping downstairs but up until about a week ago I was hoping that would start to change.
Through all of this, she got a new job and made some new friends with her coworkers. That was great because I felt like her old job started a lot of our issues because of her hours and that was where she met OM. Along with that, one of her coworkers now is a bartender and she began going out when this girl was working. At first it was once here and there which was fine with me. I didn't know the girl and would have other things going on so I didn't have a problem not going. Then it started to become a more regular occurrence to where it is now a weekly, if not multiple times a week thing. It's also not just the girl she knows from work anymore, it's all the regulars from the bar she goes to hang out with, guys included.
I'm fine with her having her own friends, I really am. The problems for me come in here:
- I don't know these people for the most part - I met two of them once for a half hour - so I really have nothing to go on as to who they are. She's made it clear that she wants to have separate friends which just seems odd to me. I don't need to be friends with these people, I just want to meet them.
- These people are all like five years younger than her and at different points in their lives: just out of college, no full-time job yet, still living at home with parents, renting summer houses and going out to bars on the weekend to relax. It's just not the same place as we or our normal friends are: married, owning a house, some of our friends have kids or are about to have their second kid. I keep thinking she's going through some quarter-life crisis or something.
- She stopped wearing her wedding rings probably about two or three months ago except for when our parents are around and this week changed her Facebook around to hide the fact that she's married (yes, it's stupid) - I'm left asking, "What's that about?" She resent the fact that I ask about it. It's almost like she's hiding the fact that she's married to anyone that doesn't know. She tells me that they all know she's married but knowing how open she is about her life with her actual friends, I doubt she walks around broadcasting it.
- I don't like have to compete for time with her. It's one thing if she goes out every other week or something but when now that it seems like it's weekly, I can't get her to commit to do anything.
- She's going on a trip to Las Vegas with a few of them in November. When she first brought it up to me it was just a "girls trip" so I was fine with it - especially since I just went Vegas with a few of my friends. But now it's changed into celebrating one of the girl's birthdays so her boyfriend is going and his friends. I'm obviously not invited which is fine and would be weird if I was but I'm left guessing about the whole thing and she takes offense to me questioning her.
- The obviously underlying trust issue I have given her affair last year.
I know a lot of this is all over the place. I've had people tell me, "Why do you put up with this?" The only answers that I come up with are that we've been together for too long and I've put too much into our relationship just to walk away. If I was going to give up, I would have last summer when she moved out during the affair. The other thing I say is that this isn't her normal behavior. Since all this happened between us, she has taken every opportunity to skirt responsibility if she can. I do believe that there is nothing going on with anyone else (at least right now), I just don't like being marginalized. I also know that things have been a lot worse and there are people with bigger problems here on this forum. I just hate feeling like I have no control and it's almost like things are back to square one at times. I wish I could turn back the clock like two years.
There's a lot about your wife in your post and changes she made during the time she came back. What about you, what did you do in that time period? In your time here before did you practice any DB techniques, if so, which ones do you feel worked for the benefit of yourself and the marriage?
Did your wife ever say why she left in the first time, what made her come back and what is making her not want to be married again now?
Do you have any changes you'd like to make to be better yourself/for yourself?
Thanks Mimi.
Just to give you a little insight, last year when my wife was having her affair, there was a good 2-3 months where we tried sharing the house. It was torture for me knowing that she wanted to be with someone else. After a few pretty bad fights and when I threw a bunch of hard evidence in her face, we were talking about the next steps and what we were going to do. We laid out a few options, divorce being one of them and then I suggested a trial separation instead. She took to the idea and decided to get her own apartment closer to work and I stayed in the house. Throughout the time she was out, she tried keeping the fact that we were separated a secret - we didn't talk about it with our friends or family and it was a big facade for a while. One thing that she did say early on in the affair was that she wasn't happy. That didn't mean doing what she was doing was going to make her happy but by staying she saw that as more of the same. When she came back she said it was because she wanted to and wanted to make our marriage work but I think part of it was because she saw what it was like to be on her own and wanted things to get back to some sort of normalcy.
Now, I think she simply doesn't want to have to be responsible or answerable to someone else which isn't too far from last year. She's hanging out with a younger group of people that don't have the responsibilities that she would under normal circumstances. She wants to be able to go where she wants and hang out with who she wants. What's interesting is that we never had an issue previously about that - we both had our friends and would have no problem spending time separately with them. What is different is the lack of concern for my opinion and something I continually struggle with.
What did I change previously? I worked on getting a life when she was out of the house. I had my softball seasons, participated in 5k runs, spent time with my friends and made it a point to do things regardless of what she was doing. That's not to say I don't do that stuff now but I made more of an effort. By the time I was going to have to find new things to do with the change in weather, she moved back in.
What worked? Not pursuing her constantly. Because of the affair I was 24-7 consumed with where she was and who she was talking to. I had figured out how to read her text message and and was simply just consumed with it - despite how much of a torture it was. Once I stopped doing that stuff, even before she moved out, I started to feel a lot better and she could obviously notice that I wasn't on her all the time about what she was doing. I feel like still do decent job with that and giving her space but I know with all these new people she's hanging out with, I'm constantly putting her on the defensive.
Changes I'd like to make? I'd like to be more confident and I'd like to be able to say, "No" and not feel bad about it. I'd like to find a way that we can both be happy.
Hi Hurt. What you describe is like a MLC but as you said she's too young. This brought back stuff for me that I'd somehow managed to block from my mind. My H started going out with friends that were younger than him. I never met them either and it annoyed me not knowing who they were. He said that some of them had wives as well. One Sunday, he stayed out all night! It was one of his friends birthdays and they ended up in a night club. My H got drunk even though he was supposed to be driving. He ended up sleeping in his car all night. I was worried sick as you can imagine! Anyway in the morning I rang him and the phone was switched off. I waited a few hours then I rang the police. I was just going to be connected when H rang. I am furious just thinking about it and being reminded about it!
You've been together for quite a few years and if my calculation is correct, then that means you started going out when you were 17. Do you think she settled down too soon and is living her younger life now? What about you? did you settle down too soon as well or were you both still acting like 17 year olds? Just a thought
Have you read DB and DR? In DB it talks about uncommon sense which I found great and would love to apply it to my sitch. When she goes out, tell her to have a lovely time and comment on how nice she looks. Tell her you won't be waiting up for her and you'll see her in the morning.
In the morning I would have a cooked breakfast, she'll either want some as well or throw up if she's hungover. Either way it's in your favour. Act as if you're not bothered what she does, but show her you still care. Does that make sense? When she's in a semi conscious state (I'm assuming she gets drunk!) then ask her if she enjoyed herself and if she feels better.
Give her lots of space as well. Go out if you need to and go for a long walk or meet up with friends, etc.
I wouldn't question her about her friends anymore, just let her go out with them and be happy for her. The last thing she wants is that you don't trust her.
My H left me 12 years ago for an OW. When he came back home 8 months later, I found it hard to trust him again and it put a strain on our marriage. We didn't talk about it or go to MC, he didn't want to talk about it but I did.
If you don't trust her, try not to show it. Just be happy for her and get on with your GALing that you had started before.
I'm only saying these things because she is still living with you and there's still a chance that you could change things around.
Start doing 180s, be pleasant towards her, listen to what she has to say and don't interrupt. If she says anything that she finds irritating about you, just acknowledge it. Reread Sandi's rules and follow them.
I hope I've helped. If you're already doing this stuff then great
Keep up with the good work
Thanks Trying.
You're post is really helpful bc it honestly reminded me of a bunch of techniques that I need to get back to using from DB and DR. Specifically, acting as if what she does isn't affecting me. I hate the idea of just taking what she dishes because it obviously goes against everything I want to do but I know from experience it works and if anything it makes for pleasant interactions. And if I'm able to build off those interactions then we can start piecing things.
I 100% believe that part of this is her trying to get back some of those younger years that we spent together rather then seeing what else is out there. For me that was never an issue bc I was always happy where we were.
When she came home last fall we didn't talk about her affair either beyond the fact that it was over. She was uncomfortable talking about what she did wrong and I honestly didn't want to rehash everything that happened.
My ultimate hope is that this is just a phase and that just as quickly as things turned south that they can hopefully turn around just as quick. I also realize that is a little bit of a pipe dream given what's happened in the last 18 months so I try to go with no expectations, knowing having those only sets mess up for heartache.
Hi Hurt, glad I was able to give you some advice
I hope it goes well for you
One thing I'd say that if she does want a R, then you need to take it slowly this time. That's what I intend to do if I ever get a chance at R
I feel that both of us need to address the affairs and talk to an MC about our sitches. It's the only way I feel that we can really trust our spouses again.
You mentioned about turning it round quickly, but you need to take things slowly. You'll have to have a lot of patience and lots of little babysteps in order for this to work. Reread Sandi's rules, sorry I'm repeating myself now but I feel it's important to do that
go out and GAL. Find a hobby that you can engage in or some other activity that doesn't involve your spouse. This will make you feel better
You can have a little bit of hope, I always keep hold of a bit of hope
In the long run you may get hurt again but you'll come out of this a lot stronger if you follow the system on here. Keep posting regularly, we're here to help and encourage you
You will get some tough talk on here as well, but take what you want and ditch the rest
Good luck
Hurt84,
She's putting you in a situation where you cannot feel confident and self assured because you really don't know what she's going to do or what she's up to. She is emotionally separated from you judging by her behavior and seems to be investing nothing in your marriage. Since you don't have kids, another physical separation may be in order.
You can't entice her back by being nice, and it will be hard to give her the space she needs with how you're feeling and being treated. You're In a prolonged one down position and that will fail to draw her attention to you.
I recommend living separately and creating some boundaries to protect yourself. I would set a high bar of what you need to see from her before considering reconciliation. She's checked out -- the shortest path back together is to check out also
Hey Hurt. I'm sorry you find yourself here, but keep posting.
This is a tough situation, and to me, a few things sound pretty straightforward:
1) You sound like you want the M to work and are willing to do just about anything to make that happen.
2) Your W is cake eating big time. If you think she's not checking out the other fish in the pond, you are wrong buddy.
3) The underlying issues of the first affair were never addressed (both sides).
How long ago did you read DB/DR? It might be time for another read. I'd also consider "Love Must be Tough" and "Five Love Languages." You might also consider "The Married Man's Sex Primer."
What are the issues as far as you know?
What have you been working on?
What do you argue about?
What about your role in the M do you not like?
What did your W like about you when you first met? What happened to that guy?
These are important questions, and the answers even more so. So far, I'd guess your W hasn't seen the changes she's looking for, so she's still shopping around to see if the grass is greener someplace else. You have to start by working on you, and that includes GAL.
If you look back at #1 above, that's a good quality...one lacking in most people these days. However, the bad thing about it is that it makes you look weak, and that makes you unattractive. You have to be strong and stand up for what you believe in.....being the whipping boy will not win her back.
This last bit, I don't say lightly. I was much the same, and fought to keep it together for years. It was only after I finally stood my ground and said "no, I won't accept that in my marriage" that things actually changed.
Thanks everyone, the responses are encouraging and despite me consistently doing the same things that don't help the situation I do appreciate the insight.
I can't necessarily say the same for the results of this weekend as it started off with her going out Friday night instead of dinner plans we had. Our plans were never really set but with her recent uptick in doing anything to go out with these people, it leads me to believe she's doing just as Breakdown had said and is seeing what else is out there. After that, Saturday afternoon I sat her down and was straight-forward about my feelings.
I know that isn't attractive to her at all but at the same time I had to say something. I told her that I think the amount that she is going out is excessive and I'm starting to not only get concerned for our relationship but her as well, at that point she had been operating on about 5 hours sleep for 2 days. She can't keep burning the candle at both ends. I told her I can't compete for time with these new friends of hers - it's obvious at this point she will do just about anything to go out with them so something needs to change. When she brought up divorce and moving in with her mother, because that's the inevitable bomb when I address anything that bothers me these days, I told her at this point I don't think it would be a bad idea if she stayed with her mom for the time-being. The current situation isn't doing anything for us but making me frustrated and hurt again and putting her on the defensive all the time. I don't want to be fighting this battle daily. At this point she refuses to make a change in the living situation as long as we are married and is "paying to live there". The conversation escalated from there to the point where we basically didn't talk for the rest of the day - we had a party that night and we might as well have gone separately - but there was some thawing of the ice by the end of the night.
One of the things she asked me before we left for the party was why do I want to be around her? She either is dramatizing my opinion of her or interpreting everything I'm saying to be that I think she's this horrible person - her words. The response I gave her in the moment was that there were a million ways I could answer that but they all point to her being the person I want to be with. Afterwards, I thought about it and wrote them out and left it for her in the morning while I went to softball. I'm starting to think she believes I'm just being stubborn and isn't moving on for whatever reason, at least with this she could tangibly see why I'm still here putting up a fight even if it shows me as being weak.
Sunday was supposed to be a day for us to hang out just us, with her not planning on going out or anything. The plan in the afternoon was for us to go out shopping (she wanted me to pick out my birthday gift from a couple weeks back) and then we were going to dinner which had been pushed off from Friday. When I got home from softball she was still a little stand-offish from Saturday but our friend had just had their baby so she was excited about it. Right away she told me she planned on going out later that afternoon but she wanted to go visit the baby and we could still go shopping together unless that was a problem. At that point I wasn't going to change her mind and I just said that she knew how I felt about it already but she was going to do what she wanted. She just said she needed space but still wanted to spend part of the day together. After we were done and went and did some stuff around town and stuff around the house. When she came home she did apologize for pushing off dinner again but after Saturday she needed to get away for a little.
That was obviously a long-winded story but I think it shows a few things: A) She's definitely checked out to a certain extent, I agree. B) I think she's struggling with what she thinks my motivation is. C) If I don't change something, things aren't going to get any better. I know things take time but I need to really start thinking about what I need to do here.
To answer Breakdown's questions:
-- I read DB about a year ago with re-reading some select chapters back in March. DR I read in March.
-- From what I understand, the issue is that she's unhappy with where she is in life. I get the impression she feels like she missed something in her younger years and is trying to have those experiences now. She has said that she wants separate friends and for me to not have to know every little detail about everything.
-- Up until now, the only thing I've been working on has been keeping it together. When things were going well for the month or so I was kind of just going with the flow and we were getting along really well. As her going out has increased I've gotten more uncomfortable with it and I've started pursuing her big time. I need to do better with that and do more.
-- We basically argue about her going out and the underlying issue of her basically walking away from our relationship. She doesn't say too much about what she wants from me, but more what she personally wants - the majority of which do not involve me. When I discovered her affair last year she said that I was too complacent and that she was tired of doing the same thing all the time. I tried to make changes to accommodate for that at the time but it was "too little too late" according to her.
-- I don't like that I come second to her desire to go out all the time. I feel if I was invited here and there it would solve a lot of that specific problem. At this point, I feel like she's hiding the fact that she's married to some of these people. I want to be more of a priority.
-- We've known each other since we were in grade school and started dating right before college. I think we clicked because we had common interests and had similar friends. We used to go out here and there when we were younger but for a while there it seemed like we were growing out of that with our friends as we all got married. We started talking about having kids early last year and I think the seriousness of that freaked her out. I've stayed pretty consistent with my priorities, so if anything I think part of the problem is that I haven't changed my priorities with hers maybe.
One of the things that Breakdown deduced is 100% accurate and that is I would do just about anything to make the marriage work. I just haven't been able to find the right thing yet I suppose.
I tried to make changes to accommodate for that at the time but it was "too little too late" according to her.This is what my H said as well when I tried to change. I didn't know what our issues were as he never told me, but I worked on the issues that I thought they were.
I think you're right when you said you should be working on not pursuing her. Just let her go and do her own thing and tell her to have a nice time. If she arranges to do anything with you, then have a back up plan in case she changes her mind again. I know it's frustrating at the mo
Don't arrange anything with her, let her make all the arrangements. What's that saying again? Believe half of what she says and none of what she does or something like that.
I would also reread Sandi's rules and try to apply them to your sitch.
Hope things get better for you
I know that isn't attractive to her at all but at the same time I had to say something.
No you didn't have to say something! You need to stop making excuses for pouring out your feelings and pursuing her -- it's NOT GOING TO WORK. It will only push her farther away and leave you feeling more rejected. You may get some temporary attention out of guilt, but it's going to push the resentment meter higher.
interpreting everything I'm saying to be that I think she's this horrible person - her words.
This is manipulation. She's turning the situation back on you. When you complain, she has three possible responses:
(1) engage you to understand your complaint and work with you to resolve it
(2) ignore your complaint
(3) turn it back on you and condemn you for complaining, often expressed as a failure to accept her as she is, a failure to love unconditionally, or she will exaggerate your complaint such that you are making her out to be a monster, and then hold that against you.
The WAS script is usually (2) and then if you keep pursuing the complaint it goes to (3).
She doesn't need to be convinced that you want to be with her, and she doesn't need you to explain why. She's just trying to manipulate you so you'll stop complaining, or asking anything of her, because she doesn't want to feel responsible for you or your feelings. That is all that's going on. Imagine she's trying to walk away and you're holding onto the back of her shirt, that's the effect of your complaint right now, it's just annoying her and will not change her course.
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Sometimes we do things to make our spouses unhappy.
Sometimes our spouses are unhappy independent of us, and make us the lightning rod for their unhappiness just because we are there.
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In the first scenario, 180 works. In the second scenario, her complaints are a red herring and working hard to address them is the equivalent of pissing in the wind. The only thing that's going to help in that second scenario is removing yourself from being her lightning rod so that she can see that she's still unhappy without you, and maybe you weren't the source of her unhappiness after all.
She will NEVER come to that realization with you pursuing her -- NEVER.
Accuray I like those scenarios that you painted
Even though you are helping hurt, it applies to a lot of us on here as well. My H needs to realise that I'm not the cause of his unhappiness
Hurt, what Accuray is saying makes sense, though he hits you with a 2x4 whereas I hit you with a foam version of a 2x4, lol
Yep, sometimes it's you and sometimes it ain't. The other thing I've learned is that all cheating requires is opportunity -- that's it. Dissatisfaction makes it more likely, but only opportunity is required.
Every marriage has challenges, and everyone has flaws. Dealing with and negotiating these shortcomings IS marriage.
One challenge for the LBS is that they often feel horribly guilty about their very human shortcomings, and then convince themselves that if they 180 them all it will fix everything.
If your spouse cheated only based on opportunity, or your spouse is simply unhappy because of things going on in their own head, then you can run yourself ragged and get increasingly frustrated with them for not responding to all your effort.
Unfortunately, your effort doesn't matter to them at all because it was never about you -- it's about them.
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This does NOT apply to every case, or even to most of them. Most of us who find ourselves here truly did engage in non-marriage friendly behaviors that we really DO have to remedy. Like anything however, it's a grey area, and often our WAS' problems have more to do with them than with us.
Okay, I have some questions that given where we stand might be silly or a continuation of a lot of what I described previously on my part but I need to figure out how to handle these situations, especially if I'm going to stop pursuing and moving forward some way:
-- How do I approach things with friends or people that ask about her behavior? Despite her apparent need to blow me and some of our friends off to go out drinking with whoever, she still is close with our friends and they are concerned about her and ask me about it. So far, depending on who it is, I've either said that I don't understand it or that they should ask her directly about it but I haven't gotten into too much detail beyond that.
-- Our anniversary is coming up the middle of next month. Part of me feels like trying to get us to go somewhere for the weekend, away from the distractions back home. That's not to say they won't be there still when we get back but potentially make it an opportunity for us to re-focus or perhaps it would end up being an eye-opener for me.
-- Same issue the following month, her 30th birthday is coming up. Her mother and I had been talking about trying to put something together for her.
-- If we do have plans to do something and for some reason she breaks those plans, what would be the best approach? I'm tired of putting her on the defensive because that is then her flipping the behavior back on me.
-- To date, she's resisted going to marriage counseling or talking to someone with me about our situation. I know there is a school of thought that if she's so detached at this point, MC might not be the best place for us right now. Is there another way to spin it to try and get her to go? At this stage, is it beneficial at all?
I think what you're doing with people who ask you is absolutely spot on! I would say the same
Not too much detail, just simply I dunno and ask her will do just fine!
I dunno what to say about her anniversary coming up. My H didn't want to know and wouldn't commit to anything. He moved out a week before our anniversary. As for her birthday, I would carry on making plans with her mum, especially if her mum doesn't know what's going on.
If she doesn't want to go to MC, you can put a rocket up her bottom and she still won't go! My H was exactly the same, he said he didn't like talking to strangers about his problems.
Hopefully some of the vets on here will have some better advice than I can give you
Agree with ttd180 about the friend talk. The anniversary, I would say that since you are still going out for dinner etc, then I would plan a nice dinner together only. I don't think a night away is the best thing at this stage. Others may disagree. But in saying that, you need to see how things go over the next few weeks. What about simply asking her opinion on what she would like to do?
I think you could continue to still make plans with her mum. It is still her birthday and you still love her, so why not? Just don't expect anything in return for doing it.
Marriage counseling is detrimental when one of you does not want to fix the marriage. I have not seen anyone who was "gotten" to go to marriage counseling and they saw the light and changed their ways. It doesn't work that way. She has to really want to be there to work hard and do what it takes to fix the marriage with you. Unless you're both at that point, it does either nothing or more harm than good. Counseling for YOU, by yourself, is not a bad idea at all.
These are my opinions, based on my experience "getting" my husband to try marriage counseling, and two years of reading sitches here almost every day. You've got to follow the rules and stop pursuing her, stop making excuses for why you just can't help yourself from pushing her away with your pursuing behavior, and do all your 180s and repair all your shortcomings - simply because it's an opportunity to be a better person - not because it will bring her back. If you do all that and get lucky, she may recommit to the marriage and decide to work on it with you, and she may not. There is actually nothing you can do to make her do that. There is plenty you can do to ensure she doesn't.
Agree with Adinva 100%, MC isn't going to help you unless your W is motivated to make your marriage better.
For your anniversary, I would ask her how she would like to celebrate it and go with that. I definitely wouldn't try to surprise her with a weekend away or anything. For her birthday, I would keep it low key, no grand gestures on your part.
Thanks everyone again for the replies.
I'm going to proceed with setting something up for her birthday with her mom, we'll see where it goes. If for some reason things really go south then I could always cancel the plans if it came down to it.
With the anniversary I'm going to see how the next week or two go before thinking about that again. I feel if I were to propose something as simple as dinner for it at this point I wouldn't be shocked for her to respond with "Why are we celebrating?" I'd rather get on a little better ground before broaching that topic.
Just a follow up question, if somehow we do have plans set and she breaks them, what would an appropriate response be on my part? I don't want to come off as weak or a nag anymore but I also don't want to keep taking it and there be no response.
In the meantime, I need to focus on calming down and doing my own thing if she's off doing hers, and even when she isn't. Sitting around stewing or pouting about it gets me no where except coming off as weak when I can't control it. A simple question such as "Do you need a ride?" turns into mess of an argument and I hate feeling like this.
-- How do I approach things with friends or people that ask about her behavior? Despite her apparent need to blow me and some of our friends off to go out drinking with whoever, she still is close with our friends and they are concerned about her and ask me about it. So far, depending on who it is, I've either said that I don't understand it or that they should ask her directly about it but I haven't gotten into too much detail beyond that.
I assume they know your sitch, and if so then it's fine to tell them that you have no insight and you're giving her time and space to sort things through herself, and that you recommend they do the same. Discourage them from trying to intervene, when friends and family intervene the WAS ALWAYS blames the LBS for "ganging everyone up" against them. Whether it's true or not doesn't matter, it's all about perception.
-- Our anniversary is coming up the middle of next month. Part of me feels like trying to get us to go somewhere for the weekend, away from the distractions back home.
Sounds like pursuit/ pressure to me. My W and I had an anniversary a few months after BD. I told her it didn't seem appropriate to "celebrate" but that I thought we should do something just to acknowledge the date, so we agreed to go out to dinner. Keep it low key/ informal. No gifts.
That's not to say they won't be there still when we get back but potentially make it an opportunity for us to re-focus
You've got to quit looking at everything as an opportunity to reconcile. Your W isn't there right now, and the more you push the farther away she'll move.
I'm tired of putting her on the defensive because that is then her flipping the behavior back on me.
Cheeseless tunnel. Don't set up camps on front of cheeseless tunnels. As soon as you identify it's cheeseless, move on.
To date, she's resisted going to marriage counseling or talking to someone with me about our situation.
Of course she has, she's a WAS. That's what YOU want, not HER. You need to quit pushing your agenda on her. Back off, give her time and space.
I know there is a school of thought that if she's so detached at this point, MC might not be the best place for us right now. Is there another way to spin it to try and get her to go? At this stage, is it beneficial at all?
MC NEVER works with a WAS that's one or both feet out the door. They just use it to justify why they're leaving, and so they can check it off their list of "things I tried that still showed our M is dead".
Just a follow up question, if somehow we do have plans set and she breaks them, what would an appropriate response be on my part? I don't want to come off as weak or a nag anymore but I also don't want to keep taking it and there be no response.
That's why you need to keep it low key. If you set up some weekend getaway with reservations then it's an ordeal if she breaks it. But if you're just going to dinner and she changes her mind, you just shrug and say "OK" and leave it at that. No big deal.
I agree with both your posts AS
I do this with H if I've got a family outing to go to. I ask him and if he says no or I don't know then I just go with my son anyway as if it's no big deal. I also never remind him about it. He gets one chance to go and that's it. I know he's got a bad memory but if he really wanted to go then he'd remember.
Good for you hurt to say you're going to do your own thing from now on
It will not stop her from moving on, but it'll make her stop and think. Also don't offer her a ride anymore, she can make her own way there from now on. Treat her as if you are just housemates from now on as that what she wants to be at the moment.
You should always be nice to her and if she starts arguing then just walk away. Don't get into arguments with her. Also go around singing or humming to yourself to show her that you're happy, but don't go over the top with this. When you're going out, make an effort - sing in the shower and get dressed up even if you're only going out with mates. If she asks then just say I'm just going out with a few friends. That'll make her think as well, but make sure it's true in case she gets someone to follow you. She will be so frustrated that she doesn't know what you are doing or where you are going. She may think you're going out with a girl, but always tell the truth and don't start going out with girls. I always worry about that with my H, I've got a friend who's male but he's gay as well. My son comes with me to see him as he works at a local shop and we often pop in on our way home. I'm worried that one day he'll say to H "oh we went to see D today!". Last thing I need is a reason for H to D me.
Hurt84,
You've been around the track a couple times now on 180/GAL/Act as If. One of two things are possible (1). You didn't really commit to it and never stopped your pursuit or (2). You did stop pursuit and it didn't work.
If its the first one, you can go back to square one with DB and really commit to it this time -- let her go, no pursuit.
If you feel you did a good job of it before but still find yourself here, time to do something different. I would work on boundaries:
You will not allow people to speak to you disrespectfully
You will not tolerate threats
You will not tolerate W agreeing to plans with you and then breaking them, etc etc
If she breaks your boundaries, you need to think about what you will do and have that set out in advance.
I would give her the "Things are going to change around here" talk and be prepared to move out or move her out the minute she disrespects you or an agreement you have made. Play hard ball.
Being nice and accommodating isn't working. The 12,546th nice thing you do for her won't bring her back, nor will the 34,567th nice thing you say. Do something different
I do this with H if I've got a family outing to go to. I ask him and if he says no or I don't know then I just go with my son anyway as if it's no big deal. I also never remind him about it. He gets one chance to go and that's it. I know he's got a bad memory but if he really wanted to go then he'd remember.
Well done, that's exactly how MWD describes it in DR. Make plans to go whether they go or not. Invite them along, but make it clear you're going regardless. Something like "S and I are going to the zoo Saturday, you're welcome to join us if you wish." And if they refuse, then you go anyway. This may not apply to a birthday like Hurt was asking about (you can't really say 'W, I'm going to your bday party, you're welcome to come along if you want', LOL!), but it's relevant to most other stuff.
lol at W's birthday party. Thanks for the encouragement AS
I do often wonder if I'm doing things right
So what do you think you have done that has contributed to your M getting to this point? Those are the things you should be working on while you give her space.
With regards to your M, a lot of what you're doing reminds me of my own sitch. You play nice, you hang out when you can, you make plans, and things seem good to you. Then she breaks plans, or stays out late, or whatever, and you are stressed out and arguing with her, at which point she talks D. That my friend is a roller coaster ride I bought many tickets for....and it $ucks.
So how do you get off the ride? One, you work on yourself as I mentioned above. Two, you GAL....hard. You meet new people, you work out, you get busy, you start enjoying life outside of your M. Three, you stop being available for your W and stop accepting all her invitations to do things. And four, you learn to break your codependent behavior and respect yourself.
Believe me, the longer you stay on this ride, the worse shape you will be in as well as your M. It doesn't get better until, as Acc said, you do something different.
That is so true Breakdown and you don't realise any of this until it hits you hard like it has done with me today
I've been making myself available to my H without me realising I'm doing it. Tomorrow I've got a haircut in town and my son is at work experience. I plan to take my son for a meal afterwards in town and H said he wants to come over in the afternoon. I've been thinking that I need to get home so we can be there when H is there and he can see his son. Now I've found out that he's been going out with a friend on Sunday when he was supposed to be seeing his son so I figured I'm not going to rush home just so we can all have lunch together and if he wants to join me and my son in town then it's up to him
I'm not going to make myself available to him anymore, he's got to fall into our plans in future! It does need a short sharp shock though to make you realise that you've been doing this.
Thanks everyone for the feedback. It's been a few days and I've been focusing on me and what I have to do to be a better man, for myself and my wife if things ever get back on track. I made some plans tonight to catch up with some friends and then we'll see where the rest of the weekend takes us.
I've also been reflecting on things and I was thinking about some of what Breakdown said, specifically the question "what do you think you have done that has contributed to your M getting to this point?" I think the answer is actually quite simple, I didn't do anything. Anything as in, I just continued with what had been working, or at least what I thought it was, and didn't look to change my approach or things as indicators would pop up. I took our relationship for granted because it seemed so "easy". We never fought but was that because we didn't have problems? Or was it because we appeased each other? I think it's clear now what the answer to that question is.
All it took was for people other than me to take interest in her to upset the applecart, or at least mine. Looking back now, any time we had problems it was because someone other than me took interest in her. Is that her looking for someone else, or was it me trying to control her and who she associated with? We had this problem before our wedding when she started hanging out with a male coworker, last year obviously with her affair and now with her going out and detaching again. Each time it was new people in her life that she was drawn towards, which in turn drew her away from me.
I was reading some other posts on the forum and many of them have similar situations where the WAS talks about wanting a divorce but hasn't done anything with it to date. This is the second go around for me in two years with this situation and I'm curious if I should continue to treat it as a shot across the bow technique from her, or if I should prepare to eventually go down that road. As far as I'm concerned, I have no intentions of initiating that process and I've made that crystal clear but I also don't want to keep whistling in the dark if that makes any sense.
Hi hurt, you're doing really well I'm really impressed
I too don't want to be whistling in the dark, but I'd like to see where I'm going with this. If you want, set yourself a time frame - say a year from now and if after a year then evaluate where you are and whether you would still want her back. I've given my H a year and I'm going to see what happens after that.
My H said he was going to start D proceedings, but to date I've heard nothing. I'm assuming it's because he can't afford the fees. I'm not going to bring this up as I don't really want to know. Hope you have a good time this weekend, keep us updated
Someone here wrote an excellent post about using "relationship Judo" to lean into your WAS's threats. If they threaten divorce you say "Great idea! That would probably make things better -- what's the first step?"
Don't let them hang threats over your head, just lean into it
Accuray, that's exactly what my IC said
If he brings it up again then I will, but at the moment I'm letting sleeping dogs lie
Thanks for the post AS
One rule that goes against sandi's rule is this one -
4. Date others. Make them jealous. Play hard-to-get.I have found that if you start following others rules, there's always contradictions in this and causes confusion (I'm easily confused!). The other part that is a bit contradictory is to phone them and make small and happy talk.
If you're just learning about sandi's rules and DB, it's like giving that person permission to get in touch with their spouse (I can think of one person in particular regarding this!) then you'll be back to square one in your DB attempts.
Other than that, it's a good article and the DBers who have been doing this for a while will know what to pick out and what to dump
I guess at this point I'm using this as a journal more than anything...
This weekend came and went with some developments and a couple conclusions on my part:
-- I went out with my buddy Friday night and had a good time.
-- At 1am W texted me that she was staying with her girlfriend after saying that she planned on coming home originally before leaving. I'm not saying that I didn't expect it, twice in two weeks though is going to eliminate her "I never stay out" excuse real fast, but something about it seemed a little off. It's to the point where I believe she's taken interest in another OM who's shown interest in her. She's exhibiting a lot of the behavior that she did last year during her A. I'm keeping a lot of this to myself because to bring it up will just drive the pursuit into overdrive and push her further underground. Whether she's with someone else or not, it still comes to the same conclusion right now and that's that she is not with me. I can follow her around and check up on her or spy on her messages but that's not going to change what she's doing and at the end of the day, I can't control what she is doing. I didn't push the issue - she already knows how I feel about it - but I only asked if she had what she needed for the night since she planned on coming home to which she replied that she would borrow clothes from her girlfriend, that she was supposedly staying with.
-- Prior to her going out Friday, I told her I was going to the beach Saturday AM. She could join if she liked but that was my plan for the early part of the day. She was home by 8am Saturday and got ready to go to the beach mighty quickly.
-- We were to have dinner together Saturday night but once we got back from the beach she offered me a "deal" as she put it: She wanted to go out again that night but if she did, she would definitely be home that night, come to my softball game in the morning (she hasn't been to a game all season and knows that it means a lot to me when she does), and we can do whatever I wanted for dinner Sunday night. Again, rather than fight it I gritted my way through it and put on the best face I could to tell her to have a good time. We also had a good time together at the beach so I'll take the small victory in that regard.
-- Her "deal" did lead to a very brief conversation (if you even want to call it that) about what we were doing with our relationship, which she prompted. It didn't go anywhere special besides the fact that we came up with options that we have: divorce altogether, separate for some space and see where things go on their own, or come to some agreement to start piecing things together with no guarantees. No conclusions were made but the fact that she started the conversation was interesting. Usually when that type of conversation comes up it doesn't go well and the only conclusion in her mind is divorce. Saturday didn't go that way. Personally, I'd jump at the 3rd option in a heartbeat and would take the 2nd one to try and at least get some peace out of this for some time.
-- Sunday was actually a pretty good day. She came to my game which I really enjoyed. The weather wasn't too good yesterday so she asked if she could make dinner for us instead of going out. I was okay with that and we decided we'd go out together either during the week or next weekend, which is my preference. Otherwise, we did some food shopping and some other chores around the house together. I did make it a point to keep myself busy otherwise and not just sitting around on top of her when we were done - it's been weeks since we've been in the house together not watching the clock with plans coming up so that was actually kind of calming to me.
-- She called me a little while ago after leaving work that she was going to dinner with two of her girlfriends tonight and asked if we could do our dinner out tomorrow night. She also wants to go out with her friends Sunday night and both Friday and Saturday she isn't able to (she also already has plans to go to Atlantic City next Monday for a coworker's birthday) which is why she's pushing for us to do our dinner during the week. I told her to enjoy dinner tonight and we'll see about dinner tomorrow - I don't want her to fit me in when it's convenient for her but at the same time the fact that she is being proactive in making plans, even if she keeps putting them off, is somewhat promising. Also big time cake-eating but that isn't news to anyone following this thread.
-- If I'm building conspiracy theories, I would say that its possible she's meeting up with OM for dinner but who knows. She made it a point to say that she'd be getting home around the time I do so it's entirely possible that she's doing exactly what she says, having dinner with her girlfriends. The fact that she was upfront about it I guess is good at least, where she goes and with who is a different story and I need to stop focusing on that.
That's pretty much it for now. I definitely need to work on my acting-as-if techniques and I need to pick up the GAL efforts.
On another note, I'm expecting a lot her going out and erratic behavior to slow down once Labor Day passes here in a couple weeks. I'm laughing to myself as I write it but for anyone that is familiar with the show "Jersey Shore", those are the type of people that she's started hanging out with recently. They rent beach houses for the summer months in one of the towns along the shoreline here in NJ (we live near the shore already), alter their work schedules around their partying for the summer, and go out to the bars or clubs 4-5 nights a week. Personally, I don't understand it - I feel like you can only do that so much before A) you go broke or B) you burn out from the lifestyle. The summer rentals end on Labor Day and these people migrate back to North NJ and NY where they came from. While damage has already been done with us, I'd be lying if I didn't admit to starting the two-week countdown today. What happens after that should be interesting. She's never been one to keep relationships too active if it isn't convenient for her so we'll see what she does.
Yeap I know does Jersey types. Lol
Thanks for the update hurt
I'm glad you managed to do some GALing this weekend, it seems to have paid off
Very curious about the talk that your wife had regarding where you are going with your relationship. I know I would choose piecing as well, but you can't really do this if she's still acting like a teenager. She sounds just like my H at the moment, hanging round people younger than him and having a good time. I wouldn't have my H back the way he's behaving at the moment, he needs to grow up! I know your W isn't going through a MLC, but she's definitely trying to relive her youth. I don't even think she knows what she is doing, she's going all out to have fun (again like my H). She'll run out of steam one day and wonder what on earth she is doing? Of course as you know, she's got to work that one out by herself!
I think it's time to make yourself unavailable. Plan to go out in case she doesn't stick to her dinner date, so at least you'll have a back up plan. Remember Sandi's rules - Accept 3 invites out of 5.
She seems to be making more of an effort this weekend, going to the beach with you and going along to watch you on Sunday. It seems that she wants to try piecing with you, but she's still hanging out with these other people!
Like you I wonder what she'll do when these friends of hers go home. Watch this space! Like you said damage has been done and it will take time to build that trust back. I think that applies to all us LBS!
Oh, and it may sound stupid but I started updating my wardrobe - if you want to call it that. I've been taking advantage of a lot of these back to school sales and replacing some of my clothes that I've been hanging onto a little too long.
Just quickly about our talk on Saturday regarding our relationship - Like I said, I would take the piecing in a heartbeat but I know before any real progress will be made two things need to happen 1) I need to make some changes for myself that will also have an impact on how desirable I am to W, or anyone else, AND 2) she's got some work to do on her own. I can't dictate necessarily what those changes will be for her, she has to figure that out on her own if she ultimately decides she wants piece it together.
I'm trying not to get my expectations up, I'm acutally trying really hard to have none. If anything, at the very least she's making plans. I do need to work on not always being available to her.
I wouldn't call it stupid to want to change how you look and improve yourself - I'd say good for you! I wouldn't do it for her though, do it for you! I agree with everything else you say in your post
You're doing really well, keep up the good work
If you had a friend who called you up and told you that his wife spent the majority of her time with friends he had never met, including weekends away and last minute overnights, that she consistently makes and breaks plans with him, but that sometimes she's nice, and he wanted your take on it and your advice, what would you say to him?
If you told her you were going to join her for dinner with her girlfriends (you didn't ask her, you told her), what would she say?
If you told her you were going to join her for the trip to Atlantic City, what would she say?
Interesting perspective Accuray.
If a friend came to me and described basically the exact situation that I'm in back to me, I would tell him that he needs to be patient. The situation is horrible but if at the end of the day he still loves and wants to be with his W then he may have a tough road ahead to get there. The worst thing he could do is continue to pursue his W because it will only drive her further away. Obviously two things are going on: 1) she's going through something and is doing what she thinks is right by her so despite how logical of a case he may make, it won't get through and 2) he may think everything going on is related to her behavior but what was his role in the relationship up until that point? Rather than talking, he needs to be acting and working on making himself a more appealing option to her than what currently exists. At some point he may need to think long and hard about how much he is willing to go through before he moves on and if he focuses on himself and GAL, he should be in a better place to do just that.
As far as the questions specific to my W, with her being a WAS and judging by how some of our interactions go when I pursue her:
-- She'd say that they are her friends and that she wants to be able to have friends that are separate from our "joint" friends.
-- There's only two weeks before they are gone for the summer and she "never" used to go out all the time.
-- The trip to AC would be similar but she would also come up with a reason about she's sharing a room with her friend, etc.
-- Basically, she would come up with a variety of reasons why I shouldn't go.
Two years ago, those responses would have been a lot different, I can guarantee that. She's in a different place right now.
As a side note, my conspiracy theory was wrong last night. She did go to dinner with her friends and not another OM. That isn't to say there isn't an OM but I just need to be careful about jumping to conclusions. As I work on detaching a little more I should be able to handle that better but right now I still have some work to do in that regard. I did however tell her I couldn't do dinner tonight like she proposed - Like has been suggested I need to not be so available to her.
One thing I noticed is that this time around I'm not necessarily "sad" about the situation. I'm more frustrated than anything that we are here again. Since this seems to be a recurring issue for her and us, I need to really take stock of where we are, what I am looking to achieve and is it really possible? Do I want to be with someone that can't decide what she wants? Are my feelings about our marriage and towards her enough to work through this again?
Good stuff Hurt84 -- if you are living the advice you'd give someone else, then you are being true to yourself. It's easy when we are so close to a situation to kid ourselves. If you can step back and look at the facts as a third party would it can be a good exercise.
One observation I would offer -- living the way you are living is very hard on your emotions and self esteem. Make sure you are practicing adequate self care -- that may require you to get some physical distance to get yourself centered.
Thanks Accuray.
Knowing what to do and doing what you know are two entirely different things. I still have a ways to go to follow all of the advice I'd give.
I was actually thinking if it got to the point where I couldn't take much more at home and needed a break that I'd take a week or so from work and just go either stay with some friends out of town or out to our friend's parents lake house a couple hours away - they are never there. Just to get away from it all for one thing and two, to see how she reacts to it. I'm not there yet and really don't want to be but if I keep jumping to conclusions about another OM I just might have to do it.
Otherwise, I'm eating and physically active - I signed up for a 5k on Labor Day last night. It's just sharing the house with someone that isn't there emotionally really stinks..again.
Yep, I think you should move out for longer and not explain yourself. I think you need to make this worse before it will get better.
I'm not sure how well this will go over but does anyone have some simple suggestions for taking my mind off things with W? I'm doing my best to GAL but even when I'm off doing my own thing, I'm constantly thinking about my situation with her.
Last night was her trip to Atlantic City. She went dark for a good 18 hours or so while down there. I see how she is when we're together and she has no problem taking or making calls, texts, etc to her friends. Obviously, I'm not on that same level as them where she would reach out to me unprompted but it definitely makes you feel a little snake-bit to be an afterthought.
If it's any consolation I feel the same when H doesn't talk to me. I had a bad week last week with no contact with him and his nasty text he sent me. But that's not helping your sitch!
What helped me was a good day out at the music festival with my friends and my son
It helped me take my mind off my sitch and when H text me later, I wasn't that bothered whether he'd phoned or not.
I don't know if it was because I had NC for a week that helped me, going out with friends, posting on here or a combination of all three
I think if you have a good night out with some friends of your it may help at least for a few hours
It is very hard having NC with them, I know I've been there and I'm sure a lot more have on here!
Other than that I really don't know what to suggest, sorry
It's just another ride on the old roller coaster I'm afraid! All I can say is that it does get better
I only had to wait a week before I felt better, so not long at all. Just keep up the PMA, keep GALing, Keep up with the 180s, talk to a counsellor if you need to and look after yourself
Hurt, GALing is the best way. Keeping yourself as occupied as you can with something - exercise, new hobby, old hobby, friends, something you always wanted to try but haven't. I've found that I tend to think more about my sitch when I'm sitting around doing nothing.
None of us like being "Option B" but unfortunately that's where a lot of us are right now. You need to concentrate on yourself. You need to accept that you cannot fix your sitch by constantly thinking about it, and besides that will only make you feel worse. And you need to accept that nothing is going to change overnight. You are in for a long, bumpy ride. You'll have good days and bad days - we all do.
So I confirmed there's another OM. I'm not proud of it but I figured it out from snooping on her phone and Facebook. When she didn't come home one night a few weeks back - she stayed with him. When she went to Atlantic City earlier this week - she shared a room with him and a few other people. She has plans to go out Friday night - she's expecting to get "peer-pressured" into staying at his place.
It's not that I didn't already suspect it or assume it to be the case - I pretty much knew right away but wasn't looking to confirm it. Now that I know again, what does it really change?
-- I have a wife that wants a divorce
-- She hasn't given me any inclination that she's wavering on that front or willing to take time to sort through things
-- This isn't her first affair (if I can even call it an affair at this point since we've been basically in a live-in separation for close to 6 months)
-- She doesn't see our relationship more than something on a piece of paper.
-- When she came home after her first affair, as happy as I was that she was home, I was too afraid to initiate contact or anything with her for the 6 months or so things were "good", fearing that she wasn't ready or would reject the overture.
-- What affection or attention she didn't get from me she's obviously trying to get from someone else.
-- Even with her first OM out of the picture, I still managed to push her away towards this new OM. He only came into the picture in the last 3 weeks, when things started turning for the worst again.
-- He more likely than not will not be going away with the summer renters this weekend, I think he's got a year-round rental.
What good would confronting her do? She's already detached and probably just waiting for me to have enough and give her what she wants.
What's sad is that I'm still attracted to her and still would do anything in my power to make it work. Surprisingly he's been more pleasant with me the last couple days than she had been the last week or so. I've put on the biggest mask I can to keep up the good front and to try not let what she's doing affect our interactions.
This post is mostly me venting. I'm working on GAL and 180s (she wants to come to my 5k Monday) but confirming this and thinking about her constantly is tough. It's like I'm back where I was 18 months ago. Frustrating...
Hi Hurt, vent away we've all been in the same position at some stage. You need to concentrate on yourself and look after yourself and your health.
You know that you shouldn't have been snooping, but it's too tempting isn't it? If you hadn't been snooping, then you wouldn't have known about this OM. I had this problem with H a couple of weeks ago and although it was all innocent on his part I had to delete him off FB to stop myself from snooping. I've not been to look at his page since
I just want to let him get on with it now and get it out of his system.
That's all they need to do is get it out of their system. The "affairs" are just them thinking that the grass is greener on the other side. They will know eventually that this isn't the case!
Take care of yourself and speak soon
You didn't push her to OM, she chose it. She never really came back. Relationships need balance to survive and she has not been making the deposits needed to make you feel whole.
The way you are living is hurting you and preventing progress. You need to back away so she has space to move back toward you if she is so inclined.
You must get emotional and physical distance and you will feel better. Once you feel better you can pursue the road back
I totally agree with Accuray. Hurt, it is hard to do it since you and your W are still living in the same house. I have experienced the same problem. Even I tried to do something by myself, still there are many times I cannot keep thinking of my H and our R. It did drive me crazy... But we have to become stronger and stronger.
I'm sharing a big mistake I made last night. He will go somewhere this long weekend and rejected to tell me where he will go. I felt so hurt. But I think I must be ridiculous and crazy last night. Instead of expressing my anger and pain, we were just talking about buying new furniture for our house. This erased all my prevoius do180 effort......
Sorry Hurt...this is a crappy situation.
I suggest re-reading the section in DR about when your spouse is having an affair....good to brush up on that. Also consider "Love Must be Tough." Take care of you first.
Peace, don't beat yourself up about it, we all make mistakes
We're only human and occasionally we don't follow 180 as we thing we know bast
I agree breakdown
Hope you have a better weekend Hurt
TryingToD180, thank you for your response and support. Sometimes I am confused by my H. He wants to buy new furunitures and decorates our house. I don't know if I should agree with him or not.
Hope all of you have a nice weekend too...
Peace have you got a thread of your own I can visit? I thought I had already visited your thread but I'm not sure
Anyway Peace, I would let your H decorate your home and buy new furniture but make sure it's to your taste. If he did move out then at least you'll have a nice decorated home
Thank you again 180 for your comments. I'm not quite sure how this forum works. But I think I have my own thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...684#Post2380684
Thanks Peace, I'll pop over there now
Nothing earth-shattering to report from this weekend (W stayed out Friday night, we met for dinner Saturday and Sunday and yesterday we went to a BBQ. Afterwards we argued a little.)
Needless to say I need to do something different. Even though I really don't have the extra cash laying around, I just signed up for 3 coaching sessions. I'm hoping to schedule my first session later today. Very nervous about it and what's ahead but I need to do something differently.
That's great news hurt
I wish I could afford coaching sessions, the feedback I get from them is amazing! Hope they go well for you
Don't be nervous about it, they're there to help you and they've helped thousands of people before you
I think you, or she, needs to move out for a while. Your proximity to her behavior is hurting you more than you realize.
I agree Accuray
It must be really hard living with someone who doesn't want to be with you anymore
I also agree, in-house separations seem to result in miserable LBS's. It's hard to detach and GAL when the WAS is under the same roof. That said, the LBS should make every effort to stay in the home, the WAS is the one that should leave.
I agree, particularly when there are kids. In the context of no kids, the LBS should try to get the WAS to move out, and if they won't, the LBS should move out instead of getting stuck in limbo. Being in that toxic environment is poisoning your self-esteem and that is working against you.
Everything you need to do to equalize the balance of power in the relationship, make yourself attractive to your spouse again, rebuild your self esteem, etc. is going to be constantly pounded down when you're living with someone who doesn't value you, disrespects you, and carries on with third parties right under your nose.
You need to say "Enough!" and take a stand. You need revolution, not evolution, in this case.
You're being slowly poisoned by your proximity to this behavior. You can shield yourself with distance and rebuild yourself.
[quote=Accuray]
Everything you need to do to equalize the balance of power in the relationship, make yourself attractive to your spouse again, rebuild your self esteem, etc. is going to be constantly pounded down when you're living with someone who doesn't value you, disrespects you, and carries on with third parties right under your nose.
I'm under the belief that you can take a stand without leaving your home or the WAS. Marriage shouldn't be a power struggle. To me there is nothing more masculine than a man that walks with clarity, authority and demostrates humility. Now having said that that i've never really had to live on the other side of being alpha so it might be different for some. I demand respect, but I also give it now too. As a result my W is starting to come around, and it hasn't been becuase i've done anything other than get back to basics and gotten much closer to Christ. I haven't "DETACHED" but more so "PLUGGED" in to my surroudings without letting my sitch dictate.
No matter what you are going through respond with clarity and authority... And when I say authority doesn't mean it's this verbose character, sometimes being still and quite speaks the loudest. I tell my children often "the loudest one is the weakest one" look in the mirror and tell yourself you will be ok, DEMAND respect but also give it. Love unconditionally(another sign of strength) we can all control our destiny men it will be whatever we say will be.
Nothings impossible once you convince the mind...
[quote=Accuray]
Everything you need to do to equalize the balance of power in the relationship, make yourself attractive to your spouse again, rebuild your self esteem, etc. is going to be constantly pounded down when you're living with someone who doesn't value you, disrespects you, and carries on with third parties right under your nose.
I'm under the belief that you can take a stand without leaving your home or the WAS. Marriage shouldn't be a power struggle. To me there is nothing more masculine than a man that walks with clarity, authority and demostrates humility. Now having said that that i've never really had to live on the other side of being alpha so it might be different for some. I demand respect, but I also give it now too. As a result my W is starting to come around, and it hasn't been becuase i've done anything other than get back to basics and gotten much closer to Christ. I haven't "DETACHED" but more so "PLUGGED" in to my surroudings without letting my sitch dictate.
No matter what you are going through respond with clarity and authority... And when I say authority doesn't mean it's this verbose character, sometimes being still and quite speaks the loudest. I tell my children often "the loudest one is the weakest one" look in the mirror and tell yourself you will be ok, DEMAND respect but also give it. Love unconditionally(another sign of strength) we can all control our destiny men it will be whatever we say will be.
Nothings impossible once you convince the mind...
A very poignant post CL
I've got more closer to Christ during this sitch and it has helped with the struggles
I don't feel I can add anymore to this post, you need to do what you feel is right for you
Take all these comments on board and take what you need from them
Good luck
That's good perspective CompletelyLost, by all means if you can take a stand and maintain your self-esteem while staying in the same house, you should do so.
I got the impression that Hurt84 is not there, and that's why I recommend he may need some distance to come back to the table with the strong stance you are advocating.
Accuray