I'm workinprogress. Been married 29 years, 33 years total in October. We have two daughters, 26 and 21. Bomb dropped on Tuesday May 7, 2013. Had bags packed in car and finances typed up on sheet when I got home from school. His age...yes 55! Mine 52. Stated reasons: Not happy, things need to change, feels like he doesn't come first, has put everyone else first, not he wants it to be about him.
Recent history, lost job and has been out of work for months. When he moved out he was interviewing . I never begged, I did cry, due to empathy. I know he was feeling hurt bewilderment, and frustration. I suggested counseling and he concurred. First few weeks was both of us e-mailing. He shared his complaints, about me, his past decisions, what-ifs, and insecurity about our future together. I shared my feelings of situations, and eventually just validated his feelings. I stopped saying " I love you " I stayed somewhat cheerful and tried to get off phone first. I did share with him how our 21 year old was taking things. She is with me until school starts. She has a serious condition CVS. Cyclical Vomiting Syndrome. Triggers...hormones and yes STRESS. She was a mess and feeling abandoned. Let him know, so both would/could work through this. At one point she was uninsured due to insurance/cobra issues. Keeping her out of a 7 day hospital stay was a priority!
Over past 8 weeks, a roller coaster. My daughter's birthday was a week after bomb. She wanted to celebrate at home. I prepared everything and husband, brother and other D. attended. He was attentive and when leaving planted a huge kiss on my mouth!
Phone died, husband had me get new one. Our anniversary came and went...it was within weeks of bomb.
His birthday came and of course Father's Day. He wanted all of us to come out to dinner and a movie, his brother included. At first I said no, for we had just had a counseling session two days before. He finally admitted using a prostitute 10 years ago. Over the years, I would give him the opportunity to share, but he always said he didn't do anything ( lied ). I knew he had, for I have the emails that were sent back and forth. ( he left his laptop open and I had to get on computer to do something, was kind of hit in the face. Didn't want to read , so I forwarded them to my inbox for later ). Anyway, he finally admitted it and the reason why. He justified that it wasn't an affair, that he didn't want to do that to us, but he needed sex...long story short, he felt relieved the truth was out. I was calm and collected, for it wasn't news to me. Anyway, I corrected myself, for I saw a pattern within myself. I avoided situations of high anxiety and rejection. I wrote to share and said I would be coming, that I'd had an epiphany. It was his day and would celebrate his life and fatherhood.
It went swimmingly. He was attentive and was happy I liked the new phone, couldn't stop showing me how to use it. First daughter was jealous of his attention towards me! Sat next to each other at dinner and movie. When over I initiated hugs and kisses goodbye. He was startled.
Mostly good conversations back and forth, I did offer to go out and have fun, put troubles aside...rejected twice and told him I would not do so in future. He knew where I was, and when his "comfort" level changed I would not be far...lol.
last three weeks. He came over to collect mail and took me out to lunch. Lunch was awesome! He has a job, that we've been in contact with regularly. I had a job fall in my lap and it is within my field for which I'm going to school. We high fived, I drank...I don't drink 180. We hugged and kissed goodbye.
I went to my gf's house around the corner, hit three HUGE potholes and rolled my wee Ellie Mae ( Nissan truck ) <
:'O Called him and he turned around and was great. Not the best ending.
We've back and frothed since then, daughter and I sharing Ford SUV. Truck totaled. Last week came to get title and mail, was only going to be there a sec. I said that was great for my D and I had plans to go to a Musical. He ended up staying an hour, loving on dogs, asking about my job...during the time in the kitchen , he couldn't stop noticing my appearance . Eye darting, looking up and down, then hastily looking into my eyes...He's noticed the 22 pounds taken off and the gymn's toning. Walked him to the car and more of the up and down looks. Gave me a " you're looking good! " Asked if I wanted to go to lunch or dinner this past weekend. Yay!
He called on Wednesday to check in on truck issues and things... said he'd check back with me on Friday to see how my first Brazilian went, ( me giving one ). I asked which day we were getting together? He said probably Sunday. I sensed hesitation and should have cancelled. Didn't, BOO! Friday, he didn't call, double BOO! Weekend came and went, stood up....triple BOO! Something hit him, fear, anxiety, ? No call, text, or email all weekend. He avoids conflict, one of his patterns too ! I made sure I had plans Sunday. Took myself to dinner and a movie. The new " 2 Guns " Awesome, even alone in theater I laughed out loud, it felt really good! Had rough night, can't say it didn't hurt or that I didn't want to slap him up side the head...over it now.
He called at 8:00 p.m. last night...I missed the call, was enjoying daughter / mom time downstairs, cell upstairs. I've been doing this or turning it off so I'm not checking it or being too available. On here Tuesday morn, don't plan on calling back for awhile. Perhaps I should text an acknowledgement that I recv'd his call and phone message? Something along the lines of..." sorry I missed your call ". Nothing more? Would love feed back... heavy s I g h
Here is the post you made in your other thread:
Well the weekend came and went. After he asked me to lunch or dinner and never followed through. I allowed myself to get excited and look forward, which yes means I allowed myself to get hurt. He knows my bugaboo was don't say you'll call, or do something then not do it. He knew he stood me up, and didn't call to cancel or whatever. Anyhoo, he called last night around eight, left a message that he was on way back to where he is living from a business golf game, which was down the road from our home. He said he was just touching base, in a light upbeat tone of voice. I don't know if I should call back or if I should just text a "sorry I missed your call" message. He will be dropping my daughter off at home from their scheduled dinner date tomorrow eve. I do not want to be here when he does. Still feeling stupid and manipulated Any suggestions?
Stated reasons: Not happy, things need to change, feels like he doesn't come first, has put everyone else first, not he wants it to be about him.
You might want to do some reading on the MLC forum, there are some indications there of MLC and certainly his age is right there too.
It went swimmingly. He was attentive and was happy I liked the new phone, couldn't stop showing me how to use it. First daughter was jealous of his attention towards me!
This is part of the distance/ pursuit dynamic. It happens, don't read anything into it. He'll pursue for a while and it's easy to think that things are getting back to normal. Then he'll suddenly drop you like a hot rock. Just recognize it for what it is and it'll save you some heartache.
We high fived, I drank...I don't drink 180.
Ummmm, I think perhaps you misunderstand what 180's are. They are taking stock of what you did wrong in the M and doing the opposite of those things.
He's noticed the 22 pounds taken off and the gymn's toning. Walked him to the car and more of the up and down looks. Gave me a " you're looking good! " Asked if I wanted to go to lunch or dinner this past weekend. Yay!
That's great that you've lost that much weight. But drop the expectations!! You CANNOT depend on anything he says right now.
Weekend came and went, stood up....triple BOO! Something hit him, fear, anxiety, ? No call, text, or email all weekend.
Again, it's the distance/ pursuit dynamic. He pursued a while, then felt like things were getting too chummy and you were getting the wrong impression so he went back to distancing.
Perhaps I should text an acknowledgement that I recv'd his call and phone message?
Depends on what the message was. If it was just "hey, tried to call you, bye." then there's no need for a reply at all. I wouldn't respond unless he asked a question that needs answering. Here's the thing, when he distances, YOU need to distance too. When he pursues, YOU need to temper your response to it. DO NOT pursue him! Read Dobson's Love Must Be Tough, it gives some great insight into the distance/ pursuit dynamic.
A 180 is doing something that is the complete opposite of what you would normally do.
And it doesn't have to be complaint related (because if you do it simply because your spouse complained, then you are being manipulative).
180 is about listening to the complaints, seeing if they fall in line with what you want for yourself AND it is also about looking at yourself and making changes in areas where you want to be different.
So I would be more curious to ask...
Was there a complaint about you being to stuffy or something? Were you just trying to relax and have fun? What exactly was behind the behavior?
Yes, the 180 was about loosening up. I never drank, and my daughter 21, and I have been enjoying our new experiences. I was anxiety ridden, so I thought why not?
As for him calling me, I didn't call him back but did write a light hearted text. " Got your message, golf game sounded fun! " That was it. I don't want him to think that standing me up pissed me off. I don't want to give him the knowledge or satisfaction of affecting me. I don't want to see him tomorrow, so I'll probably go to the gymn. I'll get the DR book tomorrow, I really need to read it. I just don't know, I'm feeling so sad right now. This whole pursuit , pull back thing sounds so creepy. It sounds very cruel and unkind. How does anyone go through all of this and not resent the Hell out of their WAS? How does one confront issues, when all that is said and done is incredibly damaging? I find this to be overwhelming. Thanks all for responding.
I made sure I was not home when he dropped off my daughter. I just don't want to see him right now, I want to really focus on what I want, not react or respond to his behavior. I don't want to be so available for him to see. I have read the MLC part of DR and board, he does fit many of the symptoms. I believe he has been going through this internally while he lived with me. He is being introspective, has actually questioned if he was going through a MLC. I didn't validate nor respond to his thought, just let it hang out there. At the time, I did let him know he had to feel his emotions and that he had choices to make.
As for me... I took his Fall/Winter clothes to the storage unit yesterday and want to remove the dressers in the 10 x10 room that he used as a closet. I'm in an antique home, so to reach the bathroom I have to constantly walk through his stuff . I've decided he doesn't wish to live here, then I'm moving on and doing to the house what I want to do. I'm taking down the bars and brackets, and will proceed to paint the room. Thinking of making it a reading room off the Master bedroom. Since I'm in limbo, I want to at least have some control over my surroundings. I do vacillate between wanting him back and getting a written separation agreement. I truly fear the possibility of him deciding that he's tired of paying a mortgage and bills. I worry that he'll go through one of the stages that I've read about. His father completely abandoned his mother with five kids. She had to pull rank , called his C O and his pay was garnished to support her. Since I'm supposed to not believe what he says and does...he promised he'd never do something like that. I really don't know what to do , I don't want to push him further into feeling crappy. Yet I am in a protective mode. He is making a consistent effort to see our adult daughters on a regular basis. Having a job again has lifted his spirits, and he has looked into therapy.
Second part of my journaling.
I am feeling myself detach, but I do fear by doing so I may not ever want him back. I look at the past years and do see where we both made mistakes. We became complacent and our intimate life was getting fewer and farther between. I look at how he thought it was about us, and I see it monetarily but not emotionally. I can see a distinct pattern of his behavior about confrontation, conflict, and avoidance. How it lead to my feeling hurt/devastated, frustrated, alone and at times angry. I know I don't want that feeling anymore. I know that is not the marriage I want. I know as this drags on , I will have a boat load of resentment and anger built up. At that point I just don't see how "piecing" can work. You see stuffing my feelings just leads to anger and stress. I am tired of watching my face break out due to the increase in cortisol. I physically hurt due to the tension in my traps. I'm supposed to be concentrating on my classes but can barely drag myself to them. I have been working and truly enjoy it. I'm thinking about joining a Swing dance class. I've been working out and walking, lost weight and toning up...feels AWESOME! Oh and I took off my wedding bands...it just feels weird to have them on when this crap is going on. He got bitten by a spider and had a HUGE reaction, hand swelled, open sore, had to take antibiotics. Since then he hasn't put his ring back on...so I figure I can wear some of my rings I don't usually wear due to so many ring fingers! Anyhoo, that is where I am. Still have a knot in stomach and feeling down, but forcing myself to move on. I'm having more happy moments, and laughing more. It really does a body good to do so!
This whole pursuit , pull back thing sounds so creepy. It sounds very cruel and unkind. How does anyone go through all of this and not resent the Hell out of their WAS?
It can seem cruel for sure. That's why it helps to understand the dynamics of it, because if you expect it than you can be mentally prepared for it.
WAS's do a lot of things that seem mean, spiteful and hurtful. There are reasons for their actions, and understanding their reasons (as much as we can) helps the LBS to deal with it and not be hurt by it. We call it detaching from the roller coaster.
How does one confront issues, when all that is said and done is incredibly damaging?
You don't. See
Sandi2's 37 Rules. Live by those rules. Don't ever initiate a conversation about "serious" issues, keep everything light and fluffy. Forcing talks about serious issues is applying pressure, and WAS's HATE HATE HATE pressure.
I find this to be overwhelming.
Totally understandable. Just take a deep breath, you've got plenty of time. It may seem right now like you don't, but you do. It's a marathon, not a sprint.
When I was speaking about confronting...I meant if or when piecing may occur. If I feel this way now, months from now I will be even angrier. I am aware not to get "heavy" during this period....but really it took two to get here. I know where I went wrong and but do they ever try to work on things? Especially if they are the type that doesn't do this. UGH. Been reading the book, yes I did read about the MLC...he fits some of the profile, but almost seems as if he went through part of it while still under roof. Has anyone seen this or read about this? He knows he wants "change" but isn't solution oriented, which is odd due to his sales and mngmnt career. I believe he thought he was sharing with me, but was really sharing with his friends and inside his head. In one email, he said he missed me and the girls. Has felt melancholy thinking about what he loved...He is really a family guy. He and his b's and s's were pulled together due to what his father did. Family is everything to this guy! He seems to be a WAH and part MLC, is there such a thing? Anyhoo, made myself busy all day! I actually got three pairs of pants, and they make my butt look AWESOME! That is a positive for me and I'm holding on to this feeling as long as I can! I'm going to the gymn with my 21yo in a few, and going to work 'til I drop. I want to sleep soundly tonight. Tomorrow I get to go in to work, YAY! I'm SO loving my new job as an aesthetician. Husband will come to the house to pick up 21yo and look for a car on Sunday. I'll be at school , I may be around this time , not sure yet. Getting a new (used) car is an exciting thing for my daughter and I do want to share the moment with her when and if she brings one home! He may not come back to the house, but I think I should be here for her! Read the part of DR on setting small attainable goals. Not sure if one does this if the guy is in MLC. Right now I'm just trying to be upbeat and perhaps I can try " As If " ? Would love feedback...anything at this point...DISTRACT ME...so I don't cave...
Just curious...you say I've got time? What makes one decide in three to six and another to take 1 to 2 years? Does it make a difference if there was not a lot of bickering or nastiness? Does friendship make a difference ? If so, how? I seem to be the one who cycles, rather than he. Although earlier he did mention, not wanting to hurt and guilt he was feeling. Also, he tends to leave an open door in his past emails..." you may not want me if I tell you X Y Z or counseling can make things worse and cause you to hate me , I don't know if I want to work on marriage, BUT maybe after individual counseling " This to me, seems like keeping me on a ride.
Also, another question. I packed up a lot of his things when he wanted to get some, he didn't want to take the Fall Winter clothes. Actually brought them back up to the closet. Yesterday, when needing to detach, I took the rest of his clothes and the mess he left on the shelves and inside closet, to the storage facility. Is taking down the rods and painting the room/decorating for me and my taste going too far? I just want to enjoy what time I have in this antique home, while I can. I don't want to be depressed while alone in the house. If I entertain is that going too far? I am SO tired of being alone and working on school and job. I want to feel good and really laugh with abandonment. Another question, since we are married, has anyone platonically dated during this " long haul " ? Does anyone set rules, or do we just let them call the shots...it just seems so odd right now, and I'm NOT thinking straight.
Okay, this week looks to be a good week. He called on Monday night to "touch base". I bubbled him back 24 hours later with an upbeat text. Next day I needed to spend some money on bras, just texted , giving him a heads up. No phone contact from me. Had a fun dinner with daughter #2 and bought three pairs of pants 'cuz I'm down a couple sizes. We worked out last night and I slept all the way through the night...YAY! Today I got to work and everyone was SO complimentary, and it just boosted my mood. While working , I got a call from my WAS. Listened to message and he was " updating" me. I waited a couple of hours before returning call. Got voice mail, and left a " just callin' ya back" message. He immediately phoned me back. He was chatty and upbeat, job offer going well, more money than he expected and this is good. His stress is diminishing. He wanted to chat about my job, how it went last week, and asked me how my day went. I was in a great mood so it was definitely coming across. He proceeded to mention the girls and their things, he mentioned my weight loss again. I was pretty upbeat about it, feels real good to get it off and go forward. I cut off the conversation after about five minutes because I had to get back on the road, so I told him I had to go. He told me to drive carefully, and I said thanks. Light, confident, loving, and brief! Decided to go eat something fun today...not what I've been typically eating a Wendy's hamburger and some B&R . When I walked into B&R the owner couldn't stop complimenting me on my weight loss and how great I looked! I probably won't have a day like this again for awhile, so I'm going to relish it and take a nap with a smile on my face! Husband did say he would come over early on Sunday to do some yard work prior to taking daughter car shopping. I won't hold my breath, besides I won't be here, have class! I need to set another goal, just don't know where to begin. I had set a detach and GAF, while it would be nice if he reached out to me. I can't control what he does, so when I got two calls in less than a week, it has thrown me. I would like another lunch or dinner, but that I can't control. I am going to take a dance class...SWING! Hoot! Monday night, I can't wait to do this, always wanted to do it. Now I can!
Journaling: Went to dance class, enjoyed it. I'm going to dance practice tomorrow night. Joined an area social group, over 3,000 members. They seem to do varied things. A band is playing in town and 24 members are going. Not sure if I can do this. It sure would pass a Saturday night , since my daughter will be gone. Just don't know yet. Feeling a bit melancholy and missing my husband. Can't help but wonder how he is working through things. I want to call and I want to see him. <:/
Sure wish I could get off moderation and get some feedback...
S I G H
This moderation is killing me. I really would like to interact and bounce things off of people. I fully understand making sure someone isn't a spammer, but how long does this take? Yes , I understand patience with our spouses is a must, but here it is detrimental to the communication process. Part of trying to stay positive, and GAL for me at present is being able to meet and interact. I have my emails to journal to myself. Please, this really is devastating and cuts to the core.
This moderation is killing me. I really would like to interact and bounce things off of people. I fully understand making sure someone isn't a spammer, but how long does this take? Yes , I understand patience with our spouses is a must, but here it is detrimental to the communication process. Part of trying to stay positive, and GAL for me at present is being able to meet and interact. I have my emails to journal to myself. Please, this really is devastating and cuts to the core.
Yesterday was a VERY VERY tough day. My youngest daughter was moving officially into her first apartment. She has been with me since day two of separation. We have gone through a lot of emotional moments together over this and been each other's support and gymn rats. My WAS/MLC spouse and I are purchasing her a car with the funds from my accident. I rolled my truck, and it was totaled. Anyhoo, yesterday was packing and loading the SUV and me dealing with my sorrow. H phoned several times yesterday, once while I was cleaning up beds in the front of the house. I didn't answer. Once while at the gymn. I didn't answer. Then he bubbled me while I was on a piece of equipment. I did respond, " ..tied up will get back to you soon." When I got home and D was in shower , I phoned him back. I was behaving "as if" and we got through the conversation. Normally I'm pretty positive and upbeat. I wasn't negative nor obviously down, but just didn't feel it. The discussion was mostly about getting the funds together for D's car, logistics, a little about his job offer coming in.
Things I've stopped doing on my own:
Saying " Love ya "
discussing relationship
crying where he can see or hear me
offering to get together (did it twice)
asking anything about what he does, other than job sit.
Things I've stopped doing since reading DR :
Answering the phone immediately
responding immediately
less frequent thoughts about his life ( where abouts )
Things I'm trying to do:
Working on me ( accepted job, joined dance classes 2 x's a week, trying to go out with friends (even when I don't want to)
Staying light upbeat and friendly on phone with H
Getting off or hanging up phone first
Taking care of body and making better food choices
Working on yard and gardens again
Focus on school when there
Journaling and getting emotions out
Things with which I'm having difficulty:
180's
Goal setting
Birthday is coming up Sept.8
Wondering where this is all going
Vacillating between empathy for him, anger, and despair
Frustration over his use of we, and our, when "we" are apart from each other
detachment/moving forward ( I moved most of his clothes out into storage facility ) Considering painting a room and reusing/redecorating it.
See much of what he "said" he felt was about coming 2nd. Not feeling as if he counted or was a priority. Sex was almost non existent, I "never" initiated and he stopped. I really don't know how to initiate. Feel awkward and uncomfortable. Much had to do with feeling alone, as if other's were more important than I (friends, family) I raised kids and was alone a lot. Whenever I attempted to have us do something on a regular basis there were always excuses. Yet he managed to schedule basketball, golf, now bowling and poker, on a fixed schedule. This hurt me over the years, and I really felt as if others were more important. I was the primary caretaker of the girls, and even if I did something, it was my responsibility to make sure they were tended to. He feels or has said he feels, as if everyone came first, me and the girls. I am able to concur somewhat when it came to decisions about financing schools, or the type of home. Yet as I really look back, he wanted to join a C.C. and that required an initiation fee and regular dues. He made sure he had all of his activities, yet couldn't make time for us. I facilitated the relationship between the girls and himself. When I tried to work on our sex life or romance, he wouldn't read anything or even try. I stopped trying because it hurt too much and I just figured he didn't care.
As I write this today, I even ask myself why? There is a core part of me that was hoping we could reunite during "empty nesting" but it was so awkward. He says he isn't sure about "working on our marriage" that he wants it to be about him. I now realize, a lot HAS been about him. He believes counseling will ruin our friendship, and I now wonder , what friendship? I can look back right now and say : WOW! I reeeally don't want to go back to that. I realize that I've self medicated with my children, activities to stay busy, friends to stave off loneliness. I don't want THAT marriage! I even see myself as going through a MLC! Thinking about driving a wee sports car and travel. Part of me wants to tell him about how I feel and my insight. The other part, committed to God, and to him. I have two daughters, who are very affected by this. I don't want them scarred by this.
I am feeling so hurt, for this is just more of what I felt when under the same roof; and that it reinforces what I have buried for so long ( 29 years of marriage and a couple for four years prior ). Do others come to this kind of epiphany? Am I going through a phase? Part of our problem was that neither shared our hurt or feelings. We avoided. I am more confrontational, but when one doesn't know how or is afraid to admit something out of fear of hurting the other, how does one go about it?
A real 180 for me would be to tell him how I've felt and why. But that is against the
" don't talk about relationship issues"
I am very confused, yet I do know I don't want that guy or marriage anymore! He has said he didn't feel accepted for who he was, perhaps I was seeing things and pushing him away unknowingly?
At this point conversations are pleasant, friendly, neighborly. No talk of divorce or even where we are going. He still talks of immediate future, but that is about jobs, and getting me a new car. He made a point of telling me that he went online looking at the Nissan Juke, (D told him we thought they were adorable) So he is still trying to please, but WHY? He does love me, and I him, but desire has dwindled. I think I'll stop now, this is not helping me keep a pma. I think I'll go talk to God.
Another thought. co-dependency. I understand this, yet that was what marriage was supposed to bring. Two into one. We are supposed to be one, yet not. I really want to share how I feel about our past marriage. I want to it out there so I can feel some closure on the past. I cannot go forward without being honest about what I won't accept anymore, what I need. If we were under the same roof right now, I think I may be the WAS. Is that unusual? Have others come to this introspection?
Okay, today is Saturday August 17, 2013.
I'm moving my posts, journaling and help wanted ads to the MLC forum. I've discovered that is where I belong. Wish it weren't so, there is a touch of WAS, should be SP but mostly MLC. Now I guess I'm in for that damned roller coaster ride, which I've always hated . Hopefully, prayerfully, I won't be tortured too much. Last night was tough, but after reading MLC for Dummies, today I laughed out loud ! Good bye from newbies and onto the next forum...
MLC for dummies? Now that is a book I've got to read, lol
Hi WIP, just thought I'd pop in and say hi
Just off to your other thread. Before I go though, AS mentioned a book called love is tough. There's also a book called love is tough: a marriage in crisis. Which one should I get? I feel that a marriage in crisis is better for me
Have you heard of "How to improve your marriage without talking about it?" I need to add that to my reading list.
I've put it on my reading list MH, but I think my marriage is past all that. I think love is tough is a better one for me