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Posted By: truelovewaits My Story - Need Help... Is there hope? - 07/16/13 06:37 PM
In short, I did everything wrong and really drew out our process. I argued, begged, reasoned, etc. Story in brief below.
My wife of 3 years left in December. We were together for over 7 years and lived together the majority of that time. We've been through a lot together and were truly best friends and I believe that we truly loved each other deeply. Things went bad a few years ago in our lives but I never knew anything was bad in our relationship. Because of financial issues and a choice after one hell of a hurricane we decided to move back to live with her folks. There I worked to get a job but was unable to as I was constantly told I was over qualified. We lived there for about a year. During that year we really didn't fight and I tried to provide in anyway I could, we struggled and we never really did anything romantic as we were trying to get back on our feet. I put on a lot of weight while I was there and I believe my wife lost attraction to me during that time although she didn't show it directly as we were still very intimate.
On her suggestion I left the state to look for work and went to stay with friends. Sleeping on couches, the time difference and other factors lead to a severe lack of communication. We rarely spoke and when she came out to visit she was distant, the intimacy wasn't there and she even said she felt that our connection was weaning. Shortly after I was offered an amazing job. I took the job and she moved out here. We were great the first few weeks, everything was amazing. Our passion was stronger than ever. Things began though to fade as we had a lot of outside problems interfering such as the new job, finances, and our living situation. We began to fight and she was distant. This lead to more fighting. Eventually she asked that she needed sometime. We separated for a minute and everyone we knew was shocked. She gave me the I love you but am not in love with you line. Turns out she was seeing another man who she had an emotional affair with back home. At the time she confessed this she also then changed her story and even had her parents call to explain her new story. I listened to the parents and chalked it up to a miscommunication.
A few weeks later she returned and we went to therapy. We were told we should spend more time together and that the distance as well as not living with each other had taken toll on our relationship. She went back home for the holidays and I stayed to work. She was suppose to come back early and I called to ask about that. A fight broke out as it was first about money, but when I said I would send her the money that wasn't the issue. We fought for days, it was horrible. She seemed to bring up every fight we had ever had in the almost eight years we had been together, things long past. I tried to reason with her and thought I had as she had said when she returned we would work on things and had suggested some fun things to do. When she returned I was working late, I came home and she was asleep but had been distant all day through text messages. I wanted to talk about everything so I woke her up. This lead to a fight and she moved out.
At first there could have been hope but I handled everything wrong. I mean I just didn't know I didn't read DB, I actually read a Dr. Phil book and tried to do everything in that book (none of it worked.) I agreed with everything and took responsibility for everything. Then though I found on her laptop that she was still in communication with the other guy. A friend said he thought he saw them back home while she was away. We'd speak, but it was mainly arguments as I couldn't get past the lying and the other guy. We quickly fell into a dance that involved arguing about trust, or me begging for her to take her back. This pushed her further and further away to the point that we filed for divorce. She denied having the affair as well and had her parents get involved. That story eventually changed and is now that she was questioning the marriage while we were gone before she met the guy but the guy isn't the reason and there is nothing wrong with the affair as our relationship was broken.
During our fights I did everything wrong. I really did. I begged, I argued, I yelled. I never really name called out side of questioning her character and calling her a liar. I did once say some really bad things but that was after I found out that she was seeing the other guy behind my back. When she admitted to it she didn't see the big deal and tried to play it off as if it wasn't anything.
Towards our anniversary she texted me about fond memories but i had just heard from a friend that she was with the guy at a wedding and that they were physically intimate. I argued more with her and she denied being with the guy. I saw a photo so I know what is happening. I wrote her a letter saying that we should try again, listing what I thought was wrong and that we can try again and start over but only if there is trust and respect. If not I said we would just have to move on with our lives. Shortly after that I spoke with her father who felt he'd talk to her as he felt we should try again. I agreed. He called me later saying that she didn't want to. We spoke for a while until he told me that they knew about her feeling distant while we were separated and they knew about the guy but he was just a friend she tells them. We got into an argument as I was hurt that he had lied to me and that he could have possibly helped things. Anyway, I was emotional and angry and just made more mistakes. I didn't handle any of this well. At the time I thought of her every second of the day it seemed. Now she is in my thoughts often but the emotional toll isn't as severe. It has been several months since i sent that the note and spoke with her father. There has been no communication. I'm working on myself and realize I've changed a great deal since just moving out here- this experience has only further helped me to improve myself. I know and told my wife that I was changing when we were together and that I felt I was asleep for a while.
Self improvement and all aside the fact remains that I'd give anything for us to have another chance if it were possible. I know she is involved though with this other guy and that she has now moved back home. We also haven't spoke in months and our divorce papers are done. Is there any hope? Is there anything I can do? She literally turned off all emotion towards me shortly after she moved out. She also felt that we were more like brother and sister she said. She has also been rewriting a lot of our history, but I understand that. I don't care about any of that, I just want to know how to move forward. I want to know how I can get my wife back and if she has the potential to be the wife I loved for so long. This person isn't her. My wife wasn't always honest but was never like this, and I do believe we really did love each other greatly once upon a time. I'm torn as I also know that I can't be treated with such disrespect and lies. I know that I can move on and have dated- I've also found there is a lot of interest in me in the dating community. Still, I also feel that she was my wife and that a relationship of almost 8 years is worth something - worth fighting for. I want her back, but I feel she views me as weak and has lost interest. I feel she is moving on.
Hello and welcome!

Originally Posted By: truelovewaits
In short, I did everything wrong and really drew out our process. I argued, begged, reasoned, etc.


That's OK, many of us started out on the wrong foot. Just don't do that anymore!

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She seemed to bring up every fight we had ever had in the almost eight years we had been together, things long past.


This is pretty common, once a WAS decides they are done then they focus on every bad thing that ever happened in the M and magnify it while conveniently forgetting every good thing that ever happened. We call it "rewriting history". This helps them to justify their behavior to themselves and others, they convince themselves the marriage was ALWAYS bad.

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I tried to reason with her


You can't reason with a WAS. They are driven by emotions, not logic.

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I wanted to talk about everything so I woke her up. This lead to a fight and she moved out.


Read Sandi2's 37 Rules, don't ever initiate these types of conversations!


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I wrote her a letter saying that we should try again, listing what I thought was wrong and that we can try again


You CAN'T reason with her!!!

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Shortly after that I spoke with her father who felt he'd talk to her as he felt we should try again.


DO NOT enlist the help of family members!! You are applying pressure to her from every direction. That's just going to push her farther away. The way she sees it, you're getting everyone to gang up on her. She sees YOU as the problem, and everything you do is just reinforcing her belief that you are controlling and manipulative. You've got to stop, pull back, give her time and space.

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I know and told my wife that I was changing when we were together and that I felt I was asleep for a while.


Don't TELL her you've changed, words mean nothing to her right now because she's heard a lot of hollow promises. You've got to show her your DB'ing through actions, not words.

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We also haven't spoke in months and our divorce papers are done. Is there any hope?


There is hope as long as you care to hold it in your heart.

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Is there anything I can do?


Read DR, follow the principals. Work on you.

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I want to know how I can get my wife back and if she has the potential to be the wife I loved for so long.


No, you'll never have your old W or old M back. That's all gone. You might be able to build a new R with your W some day though. That's the goal. But first you must become the spouse only a fool would leave. Work on YOU. Good luck!
That's OK, many of us started out on the wrong foot. Just don't do that anymore!

Thanks - We don't talk at all anymore. So I don't think that is a problem.


This is pretty common, once a WAS decides they are done then they focus on every bad thing that ever happened in the M and magnify it while conveniently forgetting every good thing that ever happened. We call it "rewriting history". This helps them to justify their behavior to themselves and others, they convince themselves the marriage was ALWAYS bad.

Yeah, she really has rewritten a great deal of our history. She now only sees me as a brother, and well blames me for everything that has gone wrong in her life since we have been together. It hurts. I tried to reason and that did fail. I wish I knew then what I know now...

You can't reason with a WAS. They are driven by emotions, not logic.

Yep.... If only I had a chance to see if we could have reignited our passion, if we could have broken the patterns perhaps the emotions would have changed.


Read Sandi2's 37 Rules, don't ever initiate these types of conversations!

I pretty much did everything wrong here. I really didn't like that she was betraying our marriage and lying to me. I also didn't want our marriage to fail as I loved her. This conflict didn't help. I lost myself there. All I can say is that I blew it.


You CAN'T reason with her!!!

Again, learned that lesson. You are 100% right.

DO NOT enlist the help of family members!! You are applying pressure to her from every direction. That's just going to push her farther away. The way she sees it, you're getting everyone to gang up on her. She sees YOU as the problem, and everything you do is just reinforcing her belief that you are controlling and manipulative. You've got to stop, pull back, give her time and space.

This is so true. I really messed up with that and the way I handled everything. I was trying to save my marriage and at the time it seemed like a good idea. I was grasping at sand as hard as I could. smile



Don't TELL her you've changed, words mean nothing to her right now because she's heard a lot of hollow promises. You've got to show her your DB'ing through actions, not words.

True. I don't even know how to do that now though.


There is hope as long as you care to hold it in your heart.

Please elaborate on this..



Read DR, follow the principals. Work on you.

I am working on me and have read DR. I think it maybe too late. What can I do? How would I contact her? What would I say? Can I ever trust her again? I don't want to be a second choice to anyone either if it doesn't work out. At the same time I do care for her and believe in marriage. I'm haunted by this conflict.

No, you'll never have your old W or old M back. That's all gone. You might be able to build a new R with your W some day though. That's the goal. But first you must become the spouse only a fool would leave. Work on YOU. Good luck!

I think I am there right now, and really close. I have no way to let her know now. I made every mistake possible. I just wish I had these tools then. I wish I had reacted better and were properly aware of how to handle it. I wonder if it would have made a difference, I believe it would have helped and maybe given a second change. Now it is just me. When you say a new relationship do you mean there is a chance that we can actually be in a romantic relationship again?

I am working on me. I've lost a lot of weight and I'm close to in shape (before all of this happened it was a goal of mine.) I'm thinner now than I was when we first started dating, my goal is to get to my fighting weight. I'm really happy right now, life is amazing. It just isn't as sweet without her. I mean it's like I have everything except her.

The thing is life is good and has been. I'm meeting amazing people, I'm out all of the time with friends both new and old. I'm experiencing life in a way that I can't even explain. I'm doing amazing things.

All of this though leads to moments where I want to share that with her. I will get rewarded at work or honored for an event and a part of me feels incomplete that I'm sharing this with her. I am enjoying meeting new people, but I do find I compare them to her - our friendship and intimacy was exceptional when it was great. In the end it wasn't as strong but it literally was a day to day surprise before we finally split.

Now there is nothing and I'm moving forward I just honestly believe that what we had was special and worth fighting for.

I'd like to know more about your experiences and how should I move forward. I don't know how I would contact her if I could and what i would say. I know she is also very stubborn. I just have to say that I wish I had another shot. I wish she could see things and what was happening to us and how that isn't a factor anymore. I wish she could see how I've changed.

However, I know she doesn't want to and that is all there is to that. It's tragic to realize such things, I know in the end it will pass and just become wisdom. This is one area in life where the experience and wisdom gained is not worth the price...

Today I need help. I really want to make this right and do want to save my marriage. I know that she should be the one to apologize and reach out and that I will only hurt things. I know I am not suppose to do anything, but what do I do. We don't talk, I know she is "in the fog."

Is there anything I can do? I know I shouldn't be the one to initiate contact and that she isn't interested right now, but what if she might be but is too stubborn to call? What if she is thinking about me or us? What if there are other factors or something I can do?

Do I just move on and accept that there is nothing that can be done? Do I contact her? Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks.
Posted By: DigDeeper Re: My Story - Need Help... Is there hope? - 07/19/13 03:03 PM
Hi truelovewaits,

What are the complains that your W had of you? When did she dropped the bomb on you?

Remember this is a marathon not a sprint. I learned this the hard way. Initially i was impatient and tried everything wrong and it failed.
She dropped the bomb at the end of September, we had a brief reconcile in November but it lasted about two weeks. Since then things only got worse. We don't even talk anymore. She lied to me, involved friends and parents who she either lied to or told half truths. We fought and things got worse. I'd go from fighting about the dishonesty to at times forgiving everything and taking the blame for everything including the EA. Those were the times when I begged. I really messed up and now we don't even speak and she is EA and PA with this new guy and we haven't spoke at all in months and when we last spoke it was an argument with me pleading and reasoning. Every communication via text or email has been more of the same. Now we don't speak at all and it has been several months.
She complained that we were like brother and sister. We went through some rough times but were ok. Not great but ok. We were then separated for about a year in different states because of work. When she returned things were hot and cold. She loved me and then was distant.

I didn't really get answers. She would say I was controlling in the end, which is true as I was trying to save the marriage and listening to the MC who said we needed to spend time together but that isn't what she wanted. I yelled and she felt I had a temper, and I did. However, it wasn't like I got mad at anything, it was when she would lie or flake on plans that we had and blame the excuse with others on me etc. We both yelled. I figure though a lot had to do that she also felt I was weak when things were bad and that I put on a lot of weight then.

Things are really different now but she can't and doesn't see that. I'm not weak and I've lost all of the weight and then some. A lot of changes but none of it matters with respect to her as she doesn't know or care I assume.

I'm getting things right for me, but not a day goes by that I don't wish we just had a chance to work on things.
It seems you and me both failed. Is there any hope? What do we do now?
Last night was really tough for me. I went through some pictures with a friend from her birthday last year. To say the least I was affected by it.

I need advice. I need help community. I don't think she wants to explore anything but there was a time I know she did. I know now she is in another relationship but I don't want to give up. I'd like to know if I contact her and how do I start? I think if we could be in a friendly contact without any discussion of the R or M it would be a good start but I don't know. What are your thoughts?

This roller coaster ride is a tough one.
So if she is done and in another relationship do I have a chance?
Posted By: DigDeeper Re: My Story - Need Help... Is there hope? - 07/21/13 02:00 AM
Hi tlw,

I'm sorry to hear that your W is in another relationship. However, The question you should be asking yourself first is whether it will be a deal breaker for you. Don't answer it immediately but take some time to think over it.
My first reaction was yes. I was angry and I reacted poorly to learning of the EA (now a PA.) I've been told it is too late that there is too much water under the bridge by her parents.

I wish it wasn't. I believe we could get through this. I don't like the idea and I'm hurt from what has happened, but I also believe in marriage and would give it another chance. That said I feel waiting around makes me a doormat and I don't want to be that.

My question is what can I do? Can I attempt to make this work? How can I contact her if we don't talk? How should I without her feeling that I am weak or giving in?

I really don't know if there is anything I can or should do. Part of me feels it would be good to email her, but another part only feels that would make things worse. I just don't know how to proceed and would love the advice of the community.

In the end I realize that I do care for her, I don't like what she has done now and who she is at this moment. I know it all sounds very conflicted because it is. The more I look at it I see she would have to make the first move to show any interest.

However, she is very stubborn as are her parents. They are the type that never really apologize for anything and like to avoid mistakes or problems. Also, I know she views me as a brother and believes we couldn't get past the arguing or the issues with the other guy. I don't know as we never really tried. I believe we could.

Then again who knows anything, there have been so many lies I don't know what is real anymore.

Help me community. Thank you so much for the reply by the way DigDeeper. I really appreciate it.

Thank you everyone else (anotherstander) who has read this thread and to those that have offered advice. Again, I really appreciate it.
Can anyone please help? I need to know how or if I should attempt to reconnect.
Posted By: BKS Re: My Story - Need Help... Is there hope? - 07/22/13 10:56 PM
truelovewaits,

I am sorry for the situation you find yourself in. I am in it too. It is by far the hardest thing to go through in my life.

There is always hope as long as what has transpired between you can be forgiven, by both of you. This will not happen over night and will take a very long time to work out. Its a marathon, not a sprint. Even if you do everything right from here on out, there is still no guarantee. You need to take care of yourself.

You are in the beginning stages of this and you haven't detached, AT ALL!

YOU MUST DETACH, DETACH, DETACH. GAL, 180, AsIf. EVERYDAY.
That old saying comes to mind right now. If you love something, set it free. If it comes back, it was meant to be. You need to let her go and GAL.

Think of it this way. Was being needy, begging and having no self confidence in yourself what attracted her to you when you first started dating. Probably not.

Start being that person she fell in love with when you first started dating. That was the attractive person she fell in love with. Be that guy. If she doesn't come back to you, I can almost guarantee someone else will find YOU attractive and will love YOU for who you are. Not the begging, needy and no confidence person you are being right now. (Sorry for the 2X4 over the head.)

Those qualities are not attractive to most people. They are especially not attractive to the WAS/MLCer. Those qualities will only assure that you situation is prolonged.

Stop being that person. I know it is hard. I struggle with it everyday. Please trust me though, it will get easier. Just start acting AsIf. Get out and GAL, PMA and live by Sandi's 37 rules EVERYDAY.

Get ready to cycle. Cycling is when you think you are moving forward and getting your PMA going. Then something happens and you are reminded of what you had and you down cycle. Example: You have had a good PMA day or week and then POOF, its gone and you are sad and lonely again. Learning to recognize that you are cycling will help you deal with it better. We all do it. It gets easier with time. that is why GAL is so important. It will get your mind off of the negative emotions.

EAT SLEEP AND EXERCISE. If you cant sleep, the rest.

It can be very difficult emotionally for you when you down cycle. Once again, I know from experience. If you have the book DR, read about LRT.

Keep us posted.

Once again, I am sorry you have found yourself here with the rest of us. You are not alone. We are here with you and are going through similar situations.

Trust in DR and Sandi's 37 rules. they will help you get through this. They will make you emotionally stronger, which ever way your R goes. Plan for the worst and hope for the best.

My prayers are with you. STAY STRONG!

BKS
Posted By: BKS Re: My Story - Need Help... Is there hope? - 07/22/13 11:04 PM
Specifically to your question, "I need to know how or if I should attempt to reconnect."

DO NOT ATTEMPT TO RECONNECT!

She must come to you on her own. The only way for that to happen is for her to chose to come back.

Do the 180 (opposite) of reconnecting. You must disconnect from her, eg. DETACH!

Trust DR and Sandi's 37 rules.

BKS
Thank you so much for your advice and support. I know I can't reconnect after reading your post. I am down cycling. I thought I was moving forward but the past two days have been a nightmare. She is in all of my thoughts.

She made her decision to leave while we were seperated she once said, but when we were reunited i know she was into the relationship. We were very physical at first, things went through an ebb and flow. We lost it and regained it. She feels she doesn't love me and that she married her brother and that she wasn't happy. I pushed her further and further away by chasing after her.

At this point it seems that all is lost as we don't talk and she never contacts me. She views me in the worse way. Now she is in another relationship and in another state, how do I even begin to show any 180 progress?

In your experience do people like this ever return and initiate contact again?

Also, how do you detach more. I really want to. GAL and all of that doesn't seem to work when things remind me of her often or if I see something that was a gift or photo I down cycle. Any help would be appreciated.

Thank you and I hope that your relationship improves. Looking at your sig BKS it looks like you are doing it all right so please let me know how I can maybe improve my situation.
Posted By: BKS Re: My Story - Need Help... Is there hope? - 07/23/13 09:10 PM
TLW, trust me when I say, I am not doing it ALL right. I backslide ALL the time. Then I dust myself off and get back to living Sandi's 37 Rules and my GAL, 180's and AsIf's.

Just because my signature looks positive, it is no guarantee that we will be able to reconcile. She is still very negative towards me. She does have better days than others (WAS/MLCers cycle too) but, I still believe that she is done with our M. Time will tell. By lowering my expectations to ZERO, I don't count on her wanting to try to work on our M issues anytime soon.

Also, if you attend a church, ask the priest to recommend a marriage counselor. Go by yourself and start working on yourself. This is for you not your W. If she chooses to go later on, great. You can not force her in anyway to go to MC. She has to want to go on her own. Don't even ask her. You may tell her you are seeing a MC and she is welcome to go with you but that is all you can tell her.

Try treating your M as if it is over and that she will never come back. Then, with that in mind, what would you do differently tomorrow knowing that you are on your own. Once you figure that out, go do it. Start moving forward with your life AsIf she is not coming back. Go out and have some fun, even if you have to fake it at first. It will feel very awkward at first. JUST DO IT! It will feel more natural the more you do it. Like they say, act AsIf your happy, confident with a PMA.

That is how you detach. If she contacts you, follow Sandi's 37 rules on how to interact with her. Know them inside and out so that you can apply them when needed.

Treat yourself well and exercise, eat and sleep. Read DR's LRT. I think that is where you need to be right now. VETs please chime in if I am incorrect on this. When you feel down, recognize it and stop it immediately (Visualize a STOP sign in your mind). As soon as you start feeling that way, stop at the STOP sign and go running, get busy doing something positive. Anything that makes YOU happy.

Don't spend too much time by yourself at first. Hang out with friends and family but, have a PMA around them too. If you have a close friend or relative that you can vent with, do so judiciously. I didn't have anyone to talk to at first and I started going to MC. That is what helped me the most during the first few months.

Keep up the PMA and GAL.

Keep us posted on how you are doing. We are all here for each other. The faster you learn DBing, DR GAL 180 AsIf, the faster you will feel better emotionally. DBing is for you more than for your S. It is to improve yourself not to get your S back. She has to choose to come back all by herself. You cannot control her choices, only your own.

I hope this helps you and others.

BKS
Posted By: BKS Re: My Story - Need Help... Is there hope? - 07/23/13 09:16 PM
"In your experience do people like this ever return and initiate contact again?"

I have no experience with any of this WAS/MLC. This is a first for most of us. Read HeartsBlessing's thread. It took years before the M was reconciled. But, YES, it can and does happen. Other times it doesn't.

LOWER YOUR EXPECTATIONS TO ZERO!!!!!

Please give us the stats of your R with S, kids (if any) BD etc in your signature. It will help the Vets and others to relate to your situation better.

BKS
Hey BKS thanks again for the advice. I do believe my expectations are at zero right now and I don't even know if I have hope as with what I have stated above.

I know I deserve better, I deserve honesty and love and someone who would communicate and work on things. Someone who also wouldn't cheat. I thought I had that though and I want to believe she could still be that.

Only thing for certain is she doesn't want me in her life.

Half of me wants to reach out and apologize for pressuring her into staying into the marriage, for chasing etc. The other half is sad it came to this and feels that it might be pointless unless she came back now because how could this be repaired and how could I ever trust her again?

If she comes back later it will be the realization that the grass wasn't greener. That isn't redemption though or seeking to right a wrong, that is attempting to hedge. Is that something I should ever want to take back? That is the only reason why I believe I should fight to save things now. I know it won't work though.

What are your thoughts community? How do you accept someone back to reconcile if they leave later - after the affair. How do you repair that gap? What about your self respect? Her respect for you?

Regarding Stats:
We were separated because of work for about a year and we handled it horribly as we didn't communicate or take care of each other. When she returned we had ups and downs and then the BD.

We went to MC and it was tough, it was good for a while. She even eventually admitted to an EA although she backslide and at first argued with the MC that it wasn't one. When she went to visit her parents she told them but they didn't feel it was one. By her return she was telling me that I was wrong and the therapist was wrong even though she wrote that she wanted to be with this guy, had feelings, and even loved him. She said she didn't want me to confront him when I first found out because I might ruin it. She even lied about the name. She is now with this guy....

together 7+yrs
Married 3
Me 33
W 33
no kids
BD 9/12
MC 9/12
W leaves MC 10/12
W moves out 11/12
Divorce 2/13
W moves 5/13
How did you communicate to get back with your S or were you always on good terms?
I'd still like to know if I should write to apologize for pressuring her and letting her know that running though won't solve anything. Pushing it away and attempting to ignore reality is hiding from what happened. It is running away.. I believe I'd need to change the dynamic to have hope. That and the other is I feel a part of her is running away and trying not to contact me over shame or guilt. She hasn't been able to deal with any of this, I mean she can't even talk about it. It's too much.
Posted By: Whiterose Re: My Story - Need Help... Is there hope? - 07/24/13 03:44 PM
Hi TLW

I'm sorry you're here....it [censored] ass.

In regards to writing the letter, in my opinion, no....leave it be. Pretty much everything you say right now will be misconstrued or, at the very least, annoy her. It's so hard, I really understand that, the first three months for me I wanted to talk to my H all the time to try and make him understand. I wasn't too bad, I don't think, I only tried 3-4 times and I still got no where.

My H has very little contact with me directly but since I've gone dark and have made GAL even more my mantra and started 180 I've heard through the grape vine that he's making the tiniest of comments about how hard he's finding it. I was desperate to "fix" my H and my M and it's only possible if I work on myself while he works on himself .....whatever form that takes for the WAS at the moment. My H complained I was the dictator, in a way I was, I am also the fixer and the problem solver of our relation ship and its been a brick wall for me to understand that my old ways of dealing with H are just NOT going to work.

She does feel shame and guilt but she's unable to recognize it in herself right now and it's not your job to force her to see it. Running away is also perfectly true......my H has run so far no one knows exactly where he lives. No one! Does it freak me out? Sure does! He drives an hour to and from work on a route I don't know. Him room gets no cell reception so if something happens to him, or I need to call about my boys, I can't get ahold of him.....I have not commented on this once.

I'm new to this too and I'm sure some of the more seasoned people here have better advice but I truly wish you peace in your heart and joy in your life
Thank you so much for your advice Whiterose. I hope that your H realizes the folly of his ways and recognizes the importance of marriage and returns to you soon. I'm in a difficult situation and although things are great for me I wish I was able to experience things with her. When on the beach in malibu a few weeks ago I experienced a sexual encounter that I had never experienced and enjoyed it very much. Driving home I couldn't help but think how amazing it would have been with my ex. Tonight I met an amazing an attractive female who I will take out this weekend. That said I don't know if it will replace her. Even the woman I'm seeing on a some what serious basis who is amazing is something I compare to. Although she does win in every comparison so far in terms of beauty, education, attraction, knowledge, and spiritual understanding as well as beliefs. Still there is a part of me that wants nothing more than to reach out to my ex and to rekindle the passion and love we once had. I believe we could be so much better. I know I'm amazing now and better than I ever was. I guess I just wanted to share that with her. I appreciate your advice that I cannot contact her but a huge part of me wishes I had the education and knowledge i have now as I feel I could have handled things much better and changed the way things were. Still I also know I don't deserve to be treated the way she treated me. In the end I guess I'll just keep moving forward and allow life to show me the way. Whatever happens, happens.

Thank you for the advice.
How do you do it? How do you wait? How do you not contact him? What if you feel that you ended things wrong? I just feel that I dealt with all of it wrong. I was angry, I pressured her, I fought, I begged. I did everything wrong. Those are her last memories of me, would anyone want to come back to that? Would you?

As a woman what would you suggest? Should I send her an email? Should I send a gift? I don't want to ignore her. I also don't want to annoy her. I just feel that if I could have handled the situation better she wouldn't have cheated physically (I am assuming she didn't until after she left but the EA was there for sure.) I understand the EA as we both handled the distance poorly. Doesn't excuse the behavior, but it is understandable. Once upon a time we were beyond best friends and shared everything, we were more than best friends and our love was full of passion and excitement. Now we don't even speak and the person who left is someone who really didn't care or respect me.

How do you deal with all of this community? I know GAL, I get it. I have to say I do have one, but she is always on my mind. Right now my life is more exciting than it ever was. I am also apart of things that I know she would love more than I do (and I love them.) It kills me.

It does get better and has, but still I feel that this part of me will always be here and I'll always yearn to restore what we once had or to try for something better if we just had the opportunity. Knowing that I wonder what I could do to help the situation I guess.

If nothing is the best solution than I will do it. As difficult as it is I will, but if any one feels I should do anything else please let me know.
So community I need help. What do I do if I want to re initiate contact? I can't show any progress made or even begin to open up any discussion without communication. I know she is very stubborn and the way we left things wasn't good. I also know I said that I didn't want to be friends and that I wanted to try again as a married couple.

I've learned so much and there is so much I want to share. I want to discuss the R but I know that shouldn't happen. What about just opening a dialog? I know that would look weak but I don't care. I really would like to see if we can move beyond this and rediscover each other. I know right now that is very unlikely, but I also know without communication it won't happen.

I need every ones help. We haven't spoke to each other at all in about 3 months.
Posted By: Whiterose Re: My Story - Need Help... Is there hope? - 07/30/13 01:00 AM
Hi TLW

As a woman I say, for now, leave her alone. When my H and I were together and he would contact me constantly, which he did as he is very social, and if I was busy or in the middle of stuff it would irritate me to no end......and I'm not in the middle of a MLC.

I don't make contact for a few reasons. My H knows how I feel, there is literally nothing more I can say. I've apologized for my part in it. I've told him I love him. I've said I'm in until the end. I've also told him I would not help with lawyers, etc. also, I'm a very "end game" type personality......I understand that if I contact him now I loose the chAnce of winning the ultimate prize and I'm not ready to to do that.

Have you done GAL and your 180's? For a long enough time? It's harder for those of us with spouses not in the home becAuse they are not there to see the day to day changes. Make sure you've given that a good enough amount of time. My H is always on my mind as well. We share children and then there's the fact he works two blocks from our home in a place that is visible from anywhere in our area. He also has a highly visible building with his part time job visible from many places in our city. These two places also heavily advertise tv, radio and social media so everywhere I turn he's there. He's been gone just over three months and although I think of him often I no longer allow myself to wallow in it. My concern for him is high, I believe he's in the depression stage (with replay and withdrawl) and I come from a family that hAs battled depression (sometimes with the end result being suicide) but I CANNOT let it control me. My boys need me. I need to work so I don't lose our home and again I'm keeping my eye on the prize. This community has actually helped to focus my attention so I feel that in helping myself I am actually working on my marriage.

I'm sorry if this is All over the place. I'm new and this is where I'm at currently....maybe others have some thoughts?

Take care of yourself.......
Thank you so much for your guidance and support Whiterose. I'm amazed at your determination and discipline. I believe your husband will eventually see the error of his ways. Keep up the good work.

I've done GAL and 180s but I've screwed up and backslid a bunch. I know she views me as weak because of what happened in the past and the chasing and bringing things up drove her away. She now doesn't see me as anything but a brother at best but she doesn't speak to me at all or wants to. She doesn't want to face any of it and has said that she wasn't happy in the M and that she just M a best friend (even though there was surely a strong love.)

I also didn't handle my responses as well as you did as I said I begged and fought and told her I didn't want to be friends. She is in another state and there really is no way for her to know anything that is going on. Not to mention if she heard anything it would be through operator which would only cause miscommunication.

I'm all over the place too right now. A good part of me knows that I can't contact her right now. Another though feels she will never contact me again and that if I don't establish a friendly contact she'll be gone forever. If she feels she is done and is with the OM is it over? As a woman do you feel you could change your mind? What if one of the primary reasons was that you felt that the EA would never be forgotten and held over your head? I tried to say this wouldn't be an issue but we never got to really discuss it and the EA continued even when she lied that it was over. She then called it a fantasy.

I'd love more perspective and advice from you and the community. Thank you again for your help. I cannot imagine how difficult this must be for you and for your family. I admire your courage and dedication to your family, you are an example for us all. Regardless of anything else your children are lucky to have such an amazing mother.

Take care. Thank you again.
Posted By: Whiterose Re: My Story - Need Help... Is there hope? - 07/30/13 02:58 PM
Thank you truelovewaits for your kind words but in the brginning I did it all wrong. The week after then BD I begged, pleaded, cried......I feel that's what pushed him to move out. Once he was out I was less crazy but would still talk R if he called. On some level I understood that he didn't want to deal with me though so I really didn't pursue and would go dim, even though I didn't have a name for it.

You need to detach. Learn to understand that this time is for you to heal and become a better man. If, and when, she contacts you you will know how to address all the. Issues that have arisen I believe that people accepting what they've done, changing their mind, asking for forgiven comes with maturity......our spouses are children right now. Once they see the light I definitely think they can change their minds and make an amends WE cannot make them see the light though.

Just like you I have bad days. Days I cry in the car or my stomach is just all in knots and the stress and sadness make mr want to crawl into bed and stay there. A fried of mine, she introduced me to the site here, says that every day you are closer to happiness....whatever form that takes
Posted By: LBH_LC Re: My Story - Need Help... Is there hope? - 07/30/13 03:06 PM
Originally Posted By: truelovewaits
So community I need help. What do I do if I want to re initiate contact? I can't show any progress made or even begin to open up any discussion without communication. I know she is very stubborn and the way we left things wasn't good. I also know I said that I didn't want to be friends and that I wanted to try again as a married couple.

I've learned so much and there is so much I want to share. I want to discuss the R but I know that shouldn't happen. What about just opening a dialog? I know that would look weak but I don't care. I really would like to see if we can move beyond this and rediscover each other. I know right now that is very unlikely, but I also know without communication it won't happen.

I need every ones help. We haven't spoke to each other at all in about 3 months.


TLW, I've been there. Hell, I'm still pretty much right there. You've got to have patience. That's why the GAL is so important, it lets you take the focus off your spouse and your relationship, and focus on yourself.

I went for over 5 months with no contact with my W, but she eventually initiated contact at a point when I least expected it. It is a very gradual process, and there's no guarantee that I'll end up where I want to be, or that it will be the same for you. But I will guarantee that if you pressure her, you will not end up where you want to be.

What are you doing to GAL?
Thank you so much LeftCoast LBH. I feel your struggle and hope and pray that your wife returns to you. I'll continue with no contact but I feel that unless I try to help move things in the right direction that she will continue to have hurt and fear towards our relationship. I don't want to annoy her though or come across as weak. I'm stuck though.

As for GAL. I'm currently having the time of my life. I work out 3-5 times a week and have not looked or felt this good since I was in college. I date women, but that actually has only caused me to miss her more as I miss the connection we had and the little gross intimacy we shared as we knew everything about each other and held no secrets for a very long time. I go out to events often and have experienced many new amazing things. I am actively involved in social groups now, some that I couldn't even imagine. I am actively engaged in nature, hiking, painting, photography and the arts. I also now ice skate and play hockey again. I go out to bars with new friends and old ones. I have new nephews and nieces in my life and I attend many dinner parties. I read a great deal and debate the learning experiences of the R with friends, family and many others. Above that my job is great and I'm actually considering leaving it to form a start up as I am excited by many opportunities within the ecosystem. In short life is amazing, but also amazingly complicated. I enjoy the ebb and flow of life, but feel that I wish I could share this with my wife and that the past several years we did things wrong and that we handled what happened very poorly.
Posted By: DigDeeper Re: My Story - Need Help... Is there hope? - 07/31/13 01:38 PM
Hi tlw,

I can relate to what you're feeling right now. The eagerness to show off what we have learn to our W. I'm guess this is life's way of teaching us to be patient now. My W too is very stubborn, I can understand that feeling of trying to explain things to my W. In fact that is what i did before the BD, what i didn't realized that when i try to explain everything to her i'm actually invalidating her feelings.

However I can't seemed to be able to give you any sound advice now as i'm trying to get myself unstuck and GAL for the sake of myself, but i will be here to give you my support. smile
Thank you for your support digdeeper. What advice though would you give regarding my situation? I contacted her about once a month but it was typically trying to reason and arguing about the EA which she now feels wasn't a big deal and was a fantasy even though she now has a PA with him. Her details have changed greatly but the response has been the same. I argued, apologized, and begged. The worst possible combination, I drove her into his arms. It's been over six months of arguing and everything else. Now it has been about three months of NC.

Can I do anything? What should I do? How can I initiate contact in anyway?
Posted By: LBH_LC Re: My Story - Need Help... Is there hope? - 07/31/13 09:27 PM
Three months is not that long in the grand scheme of things. I know it feels like it is, though. My advice would n

Can you post a brief history in your sig like mine so people can get up to speed on your sitch quickly?
Hey left coast... what is your advice?
Posted By: LBH_LC Re: My Story - Need Help... Is there hope? - 07/31/13 09:56 PM
Whoops, I left you hanging.

My advice would be to continue no contact.
I just feel that because I pressured her and pretty much broke every single one of the 37 rules for so long that there is absolutely no hope. I mean she doesn't look at any of our past in any good light and I'm pretty sure she lost all respect and love for me because of it.

I wish I could show her things have changed but that wouldn't do anything.

So many things I'd like to say but it all just doesn't help. Nothing did, and well I don't know what would.
Originally Posted By: truelovewaits
I just feel that because I pressured her and pretty much broke every single one of the 37 rules for so long that there is absolutely no hope.

There's nothing you can do to change that, so learn from your mistakes, don't make them again, and move forward. Dwelling on mistakes and letting them eat you up inside serves absolutely no positive purpose towards any goals you have.

Quote:
I mean she doesn't look at any of our past in any good light and I'm pretty sure she lost all respect and love for me because of it.


So? You never know what can change over time, but you CAN know that wallowing in self pity isn't healthy or productive. So watcha gonna do?

Quote:
I wish I could show her things have changed but that wouldn't do anything.


Pure speculation and nothing but negativity.

Quote:
So many things I'd like to say but it all just doesn't help. Nothing did, and well I don't know what would.


DB'ing and showing consistent, positive change over the long haul can work. Being a negative Nancy had no chance of success.

Your choice.

-PM
Should I send an apology for pressuring?
TLW,

Clearly you are itching to contact your W, I understand, but listen to everyone on here and DO NOT DO IT!!!! It doesn't matter what reason you come up with right now, she will not receive it well.

The best thing you can do is keep working on yourself, growing, making the changes that needed to be changed in order for you to be a spouse that only a fool would leave.

At some point in the future when she hits the same problems in her current relationship, she may realize that she played a part in the downfall of your M too. When you find out she is having trouble, or that R is over, you may still want her and you may not.

However, living apart (esp in separate states) with her right in the middle of the high of a new R, there isn't anything you can say that will bring her back or make things look different. That doesn't mean there won't ever be, it just means there isn't today.

The other thing you want to do is start reading stories and look for those that are similar to yours and follow them. You will learn a lot by doing that.

Good luck with everything...in the meantime, it sounds like you have the best GAL going!
Hey Lovethehub,

Itching isn't even the word. I feel like the only way to move forward is to apologize for pressuring. I want to also explain things and talk about things but I know that is a horrible idea. However, what if I just apologize for pressuring? That is something I feel I need to do.

The thing is I want a relationship with her, I want a chance for her to be my wife again. I believe if we had that chance we would have a much better relationship, I know I would not make any of the mistakes I made before and that I wouldn't take a single day for granted. That said I know she has to want it to. However, I don't think she will as things were left. Also, her moving and being in a new R is pretty much a new life. That life is exciting and new and full of great possibility.

I don't think I can bring her back or anything. At least not right now. But I do believe I can at the very least open the idea of communication and if not well I'm in the same boat I'm in.

I do need to find similar stories. Know of any? Our situation is weird and I believe that it caused a great many issues. The way I handled it caused the decay and distance.

As for GAL... Life is good. I'm just back from the gym and going out with some friends for dinner. I've had a pretty stressful week but it has also been great in other areas. It's just the ebb and flow of life I guess. The thing is when amazing experiences happen (like this weekend twice.) All I think about later is how much she would have loved and appreciated that, or how amazing that would have been with her.

I know though that our R is over. I also know though that it requires two and right now there is no interest at all on her behalf. Her behavior was bad, and her actions and betrayal of the marriage and everything else are her own issues. I cannot fix those or address them as they are her own. I blame myself though for how I reacted. If I had followed the 37 steps who knows where we'd be. I also know I've changed from all of this and the only thing I know for sure is that I don't care about what happened, I understand it, I just would prefer that we try again. I know I've learned and that I can do better. That is why I wonder if I should apologize, at the very least it might open the door.

So that's me and where I'm at.
Hey Patient Man,

Good advice. I'm moving forward, but I want a new beginning. I would really prefer another chance with my wife. I realize I don't control that, but I do control things I can do regarding that.

You are right though that being a negative nancy doesn't help a thing. I just really hate the mistakes I made and just pray for another opportunity.

Thanks again.
Posted By: MileHigh Re: My Story - Need Help... Is there hope? - 08/02/13 02:18 AM
I agree with the don't apologize crowd. You have to look for that door opening just a crack, but you can't push it open yourself, or even barge in if it does open.

If there's any oportunity to communicate, try to adhere to the DB principles - I, too, have failed many times, even though I've been through this whole process once before. Just have to start over, and do better each time.

I suggesst re-reading parts of DR that apply, repeatedly if necessary! Hang in there!
Originally Posted By: truelovewaits
Should I send an apology for pressuring?

No.

-PM
Hey all. Just curious, why shouldn't I send a letter of apology? Wouldn't that at least help by letting her know I am truly sorry? I don't expect a response, I just want to do this because I feel it is right. Am I wrong? What is the reasoning behind it?
So I wrote the apology. I didn't send it. I also included a bunch about the R which I know I can't send. A big part of me though feels that things need to be discussed but I know it is up to her as to when she is ready. But the apology might help.

Today I'm hurting over this. I don't know why as I had a great date last night. It seems that this always follows something amazing is that I reflect later and long for her. How do I change this? I know it should be about my life, and my GAL is great and is very exciting right now. But the best part of my life was always sharing with my wife, our connection as best friends was very strong and that is something that I truly miss.
Posted By: sandi2 Re: My Story - Need Help... Is there hope? - 08/03/13 09:25 PM
Quote:
Hey all. Just curious, why shouldn't I send a letter of apology? Wouldn't that at least help by letting her know I am truly sorry? I don't expect a response, I just want to do this because I feel it is right. Am I wrong? What is the reasoning behind it?


Do you realize you keep asking the same thing? You may change the words a little bit, but it's basically the same. You want to do, do, do, do something. No expectation? Of course you have expectations ! If you did write a letter and then heard absolutely nothing in return, you would be wondering what you could do, do, do next. B/c you still believe saving the M is based on something "you" can do. And, like most LBS's, you believe if you can just talk it out, you can work it out.

I'm sorry you are hurting so badly. I wish it were as simple as contacting her and saying just the right words to change her mind. But here is the cold harsh truth: as long as she has a third party in this M, she will not be ready to reconcile to being a faithful W to you. A woman can have sex with multiple partners all day long, but she will not be in love with two men at the same time. She may still care about you, but she does not feel "in love" with you......and won't as long as she wants this OM in any part of her life.

The OM could be sent to the moon and it would not get him out of her head. There is nothing you can do to control her thoughts. And the more you try to contact her, the more disgust she will have toward you. Is that what you want?

By now, you are wanting to ask me, but what can I do, do, do? At this point, you need to look at yourself and ask, "What can I be, be, be?".

Until you get past this mindset of doing something, you will not listen to any of us. I hope you get weary of that idea quickly and want to take a different approach.
Thank you for the words sandi2. I get what you are saying. I just feel that the issue without an apology makes any thought of us in comparison with the other negative.

What can I be? I don't know. I'm just being me right now and working through things the best that I can. You are right about the love thing, she loves the OM so I'm screwed right now as she is in love with him. So where does that leave me? I should just sit and wait? Be patient? Do women change their emotional state? Do you think with what you have read in the thread with zero contact and being so far removed that she would contact me? If so it seems it would only be if she broke up with the OM. Is that correct? If it is, you are saying the only thing I can be is a fall back for her? Second place?

If that were to happen that makes things very difficult. Would that mean she doesn't really respect me?
Hey Sandi,

Once again I do truly want to thank you for taking time to post and offer your advice. I realize I'm asking the same thing.

Today was really tough. My thoughts were haunted by the past. I went out with friends but my thoughts were with her. At a dinner party my thoughts were with her. Constant reminders in married couples. At a poker game with friends tonight I still found I was distracted, haunted by the past. Why tonight? It was as if it just happened. I haven't felt this bad in months.

I see every mistake I made. I fought with her, argued against her feelings. It doesn't matter that she lied, or that she was having an EA in the way I handled things. I was acting out of fear, I was trying to save something and by doing that I destroyed it. The harder I tried, the further she became. I put too much pressure and tried to reason and explain things. If we could only try again. Perhaps just start as friends and see if the spark could reignite our love. I don't know if we could get past what happened, I don't even know if I could ever trust her again. I want to believe we could, I want to believe that if she just wanted to try that I could not only trust her but trust in the fact that we both had faith in each other and in our marriage.

Now though I'm face to face with the fact that she is in another relationship. The M and R that we had isn't something she wishes to see. Instead she has decided to start over and forget the past. I get it, it is easier and it makes sense. The last six months were unpleasant for both of us. It started just with confusion and space and asking to forget, saying that we couldn't get past it because I couldn't let it go. At that time I believe she was confused. The constant arguing and begging though just drove her into his arms. She may have already been there, I don't know. I do know though that she was confused then. By the end I know she wasn't.

Who would want to return to arguing and pressure? Nobody. I wouldn't, and I understand why she wouldn't. That is why I feel an apology would help but I understand what you are saying. Your words speak truth and I believe you are right any contact would only hurt things. It is silly but I'm about to say that I just wish there was something I could do. I'm sure she is happy to be away from our situation. I'm sure she is happy with her new R. I want her to be happy. I would prefer though that we gave it a shot. smile

As for what I can be.... I don't know other than working to be a better me everyday. I want to be a husband only a fool would leave, and I know I'm on that path. I want to be a beacon of light and hope to her, and to fill her heart with love and passion. I want to be her partner, her friend, and her lover. I want to be a husband to my wife. I want to save my marriage.

I'm trying to be patient. Please, I ask you all to help. Please pray for the restoration of my marriage, and for me to move on. I won't give up hope, and I do believe in the love we had and shared.
Posted By: sandi2 Re: My Story - Need Help... Is there hope? - 08/04/13 08:56 PM
If you read the first thread of other LBH's, you will see how they reacted the same way as you. A letter of apology is one of their desperate attempts. And you know what? They said the same thing.......that it wasn't to get a response......that they just felt it was the right thing to do. Just as the WAW's seem to follow a script (b/c they seem to say about the same thing), so do the LBH's.

"My thoughts were haunted by the past. I went out with friends but my thoughts were with her. At a dinner party my thoughts were with her. Constant reminders in married couples"

Very much like one who loses a S in death. But in death, you know there is nothing you can do to change things. And, just as in losing a S in death, you will go through the stages that have been discussed. Everything pulls up memories of her. Everything seems to enhance your loneliness and pain. The other LBS's here can sympathize with you completely. And everyone (LBS & WAS) has terrible regrets and wish they could have a "do over".

"At that time I believe she was confused"

Another common thought from others who share like experiences. And she probably had some comfussion, but whenever a man tries to argue with a woman about what she "feels" and/or tell her she's just confused........he might as well have declared war! You don't tell a woman that......ever! Don't tell her what her feelings are ....or are not.

"Who would want to return to arguing and pressure? Nobody. I wouldn't, and I understand why she wouldn't"

I agree. Remember when you said if you could just have a friendly conversation you might be able to reach through to her? (I can't recall your exact words.). Why would you expect her to be friendly? She would be on the defense and prepared to counterattack your verbal punches. And even though you would try to start out on the right foot, at some point one of you would say something to trigger the emotions. That's just how it is.

Later on down the road, after plenty of time has past, the two of you may be able to talk, but not now. Before you start jumping for glee, let me explain. I'm not referring to the type of talks you've wanted to have with her, where you are trying to change her mind. You can forget that talk! But you may get one more chance to show her that you can listen to what she wants to discuss. Not by your invitation, but in her own good time.

I'm almost hesitant to bring it up b/c I don't want you to pick and choose the words you want to hear, okay? If you will work on you, and stop trying to figure out some way of snapping her out of the A, etc., and if she has time for reality to set in with her life, I believe she will contact you. But "if" she does, it will be a long time from now. Things have to happen first.

She may even ask for a D. And the truth is, some people marry their AP. Those are the negative things. But the other side is the A could end and once she really has him out of her system, she thoughts could return to you.

Thinking of yourself as second choice is up to you. But you were her first choice to M. And how you handle yourself from this point forward could determine future relationships. Maybe it will be with her, or maybe someone else.......but if you don't learn from all of this and determine within your soul to change for the better, then all this pain will have no value. Make it count! Make this painful experience change you for the better.

"As for what I can be.... I don't know other than working to be a better me everyday. I want to be a husband only a fool would leave, and I know I'm on that path"

Well you must be a remarkable man! Most people have a list of areas to improve. smile.

" I want to be a beacon of light and hope to her, and to fill her heart with love and passion. I want to be her partner, her friend, and her lover. I want to be a husband to my wife. I want to save my marriage."

Okay, but you are thinking in terms of what you want to be if you stay M to her. I'm not talking about just improvement as a H. I mean as a man. Is there any need for personal improvement? Stretch your thinking beyond the M. What were you like before marriage? Are you the same now? Maybe so, if you haven't been M very long.

In order to be a H only a fool would leave, you have to be the man.....first.

One way to make this painful time valuable, is to use it as your training time to shape up. Shape up physically, mentally, socially, spiritually, etc. When the board tells you to get out and GAL, it is b/c of the valuable benefits it has to healing and getting in shape to be that guy on,y a fool would leave. And if she is a fool, you discover that you will be happy without her. If she isn't a fool, you will have the opportunity to do those things you want so badly, at this moment in time.
Hey Sandi,

Thanks again for the wisdom... The D is already filed, we did that a bit ago. Nothing is final it should be in the next few months though.

I do have a great deal I'm working on with regard to my own GAL. As a man my goal has always been to be a better man today than I was yesterday. I've come a long way this year in terms of my body, mind, and soul. I've grown more than I ever could have imagined and continue my education on a daily basis. I'm working out, reading much more, evaluating what I want out of life, meeting new people, learning new hobbies, and stumbling along the way. I'm growing but also realize there is a great deal of work to be done. This experience has only quickened my resolve and accelerated my growth in that it has made me greatly aware of every mistake I have made and ever flaw I wish to correct. It is going to take a while, maybe years but I'm growing and learning every day.

The funny thing is that so many of the amazing things I'm doing makes my mind go to her. I say to myself how much she would love this experience, or that one, or how amazing it would be to share this or that with her.

Today started horribly as it was actually worse than yesterday. When I read your response I was emotional and very sad. By the end of the day it was magical, there are no other words to describe it. I met kindred spirits that were beacons of light and hope on my journey and they really helped shift my perspective at least for today. If this feeling fades tomorrow I can at least say that I felt something close to bliss today. I've been happy a great deal during this and sad, but nothing like this. By the end of today I went from pretty sad to unbelievably happy. I'd swear it was almost bi-polar. I've never experienced anything like this.

I was able to discuss all of this and we all connected on a very deep level, it was beautiful. We also expressed what we have learned and what we want a year from now. The most amazing thing was how much better I felt being around these people - some of whom I had just met. You ever just connect with people Sandi? I mean really connect? We were sharing intimate feelings, details, experiences, hopes and dreams like we've known each other for our entire life times. It felt beautiful.

My W is still in my thoughts and I do love her and miss her. However, after speaking with one of the woman today I want to feel as she does. It was so beautiful, so pure and full of passion and love. It was beyond acceptance and wishing your partner happiness and love. It was a true love without expectation and a gratitude for everything that has transpired.

I pray that I find this feeling and that the feelings I have today stay as your words and these experiences are truly resonating with what I want - with or without my W.

The bitter does certainly make the sweet that much sweeter, I thank you for your wisdom and kind advice. I really do appreciate your wisdom and help in this difficult time. Thank you again for your support.
Posted By: sandi2 Re: My Story - Need Help... Is there hope? - 08/05/13 07:18 PM
Thanks, and I sure hope you can stay as positive as you sound in that post.
Thanks Sandi,

One day at a time it seems. Today I once again found my thoughts often going to my W. I just feel I should apologize but understand why it would be best not to. She is always in my thoughts it seems - somewhere in the back of my mind. So many things though can bring her to be a dominant thought.

I want to share with her, but can't. I want to move past things that I know she hasn't even faced yet. I'm sad that everything came to this for us, but grateful that I have been able to have these experiences to grow. When I reflect I question the price of such things. The growth and lessons have been invaluable and I am amazed at how different I am than I was a year ago.

I wonder about her though. How does she really feel? Is she ok? Does she have thoughts of us? Regrets? Would she ever want to try again?

I know she is with another so I assume these thoughts don't exist or if they do they are of such a little priority that it doesn't motivate her to take action. However, who knows. Maybe she would like to but others are telling her not to. This type of thinking doesn't help at all, but I wanted to write out what was going through my head today as I know that I'm being advised against such contact.

The ebb and flow of things. smile

Thanks again for listening and for the positive reinforcement. I do wish her nothing but love and happiness, although as I said before I'd prefer if we could have seen if we could share that happiness together.
Anyway, hope you have a wonderful day. Sandi, did you ever get back with your S?
Hey Community,

So today I received our final divorce papers. We are now officially divorced.

It really sends a message of finality to the whole situation. I'm sad about it and yet also feel some relief. I can't change the past and this certainly is a strong reminder of how we both failed in our relationship.

Without effort from her there can be no R. Our R is over now and at this time there is no new R for us.

I don't know if this will be full closure for all things.
Posted By: Whiterose Re: My Story - Need Help... Is there hope? - 08/07/13 11:06 PM
I'm sorry you received those today true but I hope this can help you to move forward in peace and you can find joy again soon.

I wish you nothing but the best life possible
Thank you White Rose. Peace is something I believe that will come with time as well as joy. Thank you so much for your support.

It is time to close this chapter and to begin a new one. I don't know who the players will be - maybe she will return? All I do know is that our M is now over and that brings an end to this chapter. What's next is anyone's guess.
TLW,

Just keep focusing on yourself and working on your personal growth. It will help you to have a wonderful M one day, either to your current ex, or a new woman who will be able to appreciate you from the start because of the work you have done.

Sorry you have to go through this frown
Hey Lovethehub,

Thank you so much for your support. I'm really glad by the way that you are working on your R and healing! That is the best thing that can happen, I can only imagine how difficult it must be, but I believe that the reward makes any struggle worth it.

I'm working on myself every day and realize I have a lot of work ahead of me. I've grown a great deal since this all began, and like I said I did everything wrong, my focus and perspective were wrong as I was continuing to argue and focus on the pain rather than focus on healing and moving forward. I drove her away with the way I responded, but at the time I was in such shock and pain and didn't know anything about DR/DB.

I know I would never make those mistakes again and I'm grateful for the education this providing me as I will be a better person, husband, and lover. I'm sad though as I know that this would be great for my W if we had just tried, or if she even had the opportunity to see the changes I have made.

I struggle with it daily, some days are good but most lately have been bad as thoughts of her enter my mind.

I'll just keep moving forward and resist the urge I have today to call or write or do anything. I don't want to bother her, I want her to be happy. That said I would prefer the option of us. At this point it is just for growth and my focus must be on the future. Some days are easier, today is a day that I want to pick up the phone. Today is a day I want to tell her how wrong I was in how I handled this and how stupid all of this was. Today I just want to tell her just that and that I'm thankful for the love we had together and that I do love what we had and that she will always have a piece of my heart.

Sure I'd like to have something more. I'd like to explore to see if we could be friends again, to see if that could grow if we could love each other, trust each other, and be in love with each other again.
Why is she in my thoughts even more since the papers came? Why can't I just move on now? Why do I want this when she doesn't?
TLW,

Give yourself time to grieve. D is like a death and it is much better to deal with your feelings than to sweep them under the rug like many people do.

Thank you for the kind words about my M. I can tell you with certainty that if we didn't have children, we would be D'd. It took me too long to really get it and H never would have stuck around that long w/o children. I am so grateful I found MWD, the books and this site and I think everyone here feels that way sooner or later.

The personal growth is what changes the dynamics of the M. It will help you so much in the long run and you will be much happier for it. In the meantime, don't deny the feelings you have or think you should be past them. I am so sorry you are going through this pain and I will send prayers and positive thoughts your way.
Posted By: sandi2 Re: My Story - Need Help... Is there hope? - 08/15/13 01:42 AM
You sound amazing. I hope other will be inspired by reading your post. I don't know if anyone could have a better mental attitude than what you presently have. I don't know who met but they must have been a blessing to you b/c you left carrying the positive energy, joy, peace, good will toward others...especially your W. when you process these qualities, you heal faster, IMHO. You will deal with the sadness, but you have your sense of direction. That is so important b/c may LBS's are so blown to bits they afen't capable of seeing beyond their immense pain. Instead of seeking the spiritual inspiration, the stay focus on their loss, and the results are not pretty. Regrets, bitterness, anger, and several other negative qualities continue to shred what ever is left of this person who is more like the living dead compared to this fresh picture you have given to possibilities for people who decide they will love their S from a distance, and in the meantime enjoy life by freeing yourself of hatred, vindictiveness, and that whole ugly scene, and replace it by the the things that keep our soul in step with peace, joy, and good will toward others.

Whatever, wherever you found these people, I hope you can keep them near to be a source of inspiration, I just know that has to rub off on more folks around here!
Hey Lovethehub,

I won't ever deny the feelings I'm having. I cherish every single one of them. The pain and heartache isn't pleasant but I know that I am growing and learning from it as well. I'm sorry that your children do have to go through this, but the silver lining is that they have held you together to try again. That is a true blessing.

I just feel like everything I was working so hard towards was all for nothing. I loved her so much and I just wish that I had the opportunity to try again, to show her how much better I can be - we can be. I know I could look past anything and focus on the new R and our future rather than the past, but I also know I cannot do this w/o her and I cannot contact her.

I'm also realizing that from all of this I don't know what I want to do with my life. I'm starting to question everything but in a good way. It would be nice if she was here, but even without her I know I'm finding a new path. This I can tell will lead to major changes in every aspect of my life. I need to think more on everything and reflect on the choices before me. Sad to say that this evolution is so painful, so terrifying, and yet I can't remember the last time I have been this excited, happy or alive. I know I did have many moments of this with her, but not overall about life. Strange.

I thank you and Sandi for your support and kind words. I'll continue to love my W from a distance and allow fate to decide my path. My prayers are with you.
Hey community...

So I backslid. Everything was over and I just felt I should apologize. I might have gone over board with the apology and I know the advice on the community is that I shouldn't have sent it but I did. I don't know if she read it and I doubt it will change anything- perhaps at best too little too late.

I realized though I did it for her as I don't want her to feel hurt or guilt. I know this just doesn't help me as it makes me look weak and that I bothered her but I don't care about how I look. In the end though I realize I would like peace and this will be the last step and/or the first step.

I've made mistakes and this might have been another. This though is a 180 I think in the right direction. Overall, this has taken a huge weight off of my shoulders.

I can honestly say that right now I'm at peace. I know that after sending that letter that I have done everything I possibly could. I should have done it sooner perhaps, but now I'm not tormented with what ifs and wondering if she feels bad. I also feel better for apologizing for everything.

I do believe we could have worked on things. I know that isn't to be. Doesn't change the desire. I'm moving forward now though in life to discover new love. It isn't easy, as I still do love her. I'm trying to take it day by day.

I truly hope she is happy.

From here on out I have to keep NC. I have to move forward and just learn from it all. I cannot change the mistakes of my past but I can work towards a better future.
I'm not saying the following for your benefit since you already sent the letter, but for those who may be reading this and thinking of sending their own letter. WAS's do not believe words from the LBS whether written or verbal. They think they've heard it all over the years and that it's just more empty talk. What they believe are actions- consistent actions over a long period of time. That's the focus of DB'ing- taking action. Writing letters is therapeutic for the writer, so we do encourage writing letters (or journaling) and getting all those emotions on paper. But once that's done, then burn it or file it away somewhere. It's for you, not the WAS.
Posted By: JayMan Re: My Story - Need Help... Is there hope? - 08/29/13 01:28 PM
I'd agree - I not only used words but clear actions with my W. My actions were noticed by everyone around me; friends commented on my happiness, kindness, gentleness, my patience with W in the face of unbelievable lies and horribleness.

W's perspective? It was all an act. So my ACTIONS barely changed anything about me, let alone words/letters/etc.

Not to heap coals, truelovewaits, but I'm going with AS on this one. But what's done is done. If you sent it, and you can honestly chill out and move on, then maybe it's what you needed to do for you.
Yep. That is true. I know what you are saying and the fact remains that we are far apart and don't speak so there is no way any actions can be seen. As for the letter... It might have been a mistake, it might not have been. I feel better though and I am moving forward. As for moving on.... Well I'm in the act asif stage still because I have to say that I really would like to attempt to restore my marriage. I do know though that we are divorced and that isn't happening so I am moving forward. Hope springs eternal though and life continues.
So Friday was a great day for me. I was truly enlightened, I can't express how amazing it was. Saturday was phenomenal as well. Sunday, well Sunday was another story all together. I was a mess. It isn't like she isn't on my mind as she often is. Sunday, she was front and center. She was there from the moment I awoke. I don't know what type of dream I had but I longed for her. I was sad. Truly sad.

A few triggers later and I was a mess. I spent the day distraught from the unchangeable events of the past and yearning to be able to correct the circumstances that led to my present reality. I broke down and cried. I wrote my thoughts out, and even wrote a pleading letter - but I did not send it.

I wish she knew how much I love her, and how much I want to move past all of this and try again. I wish she knew that I don't want her to feel pain. I wish we spoke. Why is so painful? How can this be repaired? I'll keep GAL and doing what I need to but it seems to be an ebb and flow. Days like today are painful, very painful. I've learned so much and I'm happy for my progress but I yearn for what I lost. Everything today was a reminder, and everything was meaningless without her.

Tomorrow is a new day. I'll keep moving forward. I'll workout, I'll go out with friends and have a great time but I know somewhere she will be on my mind.

I wonder am I on hers? When she makes love does she doubt it? Does she think of me? Does she have any love left? Does she even care? I wish her nothing but love, but my heart desires my wife.

I've never felt like this for anything in my life. I've lost focus. I realize now that the one thing I really want, the one thing that gave life meaning more than anything else was her, it was us.

Sure I'll continue to move on and GAL but today was a reminder that even all of the joy and happiness I have experienced lately has been hollow. Today has been a painful day. Perhaps this is just the emotions of today speaking. Perhaps I dream of an image of something that never was. Perhaps it never could be as I imagine. Still, these thoughts haunt me.
Hey Community,

I do need help. More like support. Since my last post, I constantly think of her. I know my love for her continues from a far but my thoughts lately have been only of her. Day and night they continue.

I wonder does she think of me? Clearly it isn't enough of a thought to motivate any action. I wonder how that is possible? Is the other man that much better? Why did she rewrite our history? Will she ever see the truth?

More and more I find that every new event and good time is not as satisfying as I want it to be. It would be better shared, with her. My thoughts lately are like this often not when I'm alone - although when I am they are often of her - but rather when I am having a great time that I feel she would enjoy.

I regret getting angry and how I reacted to our situation as I violated the 37 steps and DB ideals. As Sandi and many others have said I just want to do, do, do something. I realize that I can't, I guess I just really miss her and really regret my part in all of this. The distance and the way we handled things caused this. I wish she told me that anything was wrong, I wish I had the opportunity to attempt to fix anything, to go to therapy.

I work on myself and continue to gain strength. I find it interesting that I often awaken with her as the very first thought on my mind lately.

I still hope that she will one day call. We are now divorced though and there hasn't been any contact. I'm GAL but I'm also tormented by all of this. I love her so much still, and I'd truly to anything to have a chance. I do just want her to be happy and I know this new life and new man must be fulfilling that. Still, I also do believe that we could have provided that. I left things though in a state that was the opposite, I begged, argued, etc., and helped drive her away.

I've been looking over the boards but I have not been able to find a similar situation of success. Are there any for men who have lost their wives? After the divorce is final?

For those that have been through this type of pain and situation. How do you move forward when the past continues to haunt you? How do you stop loving her? Do you give up?
Can anyone get Cadet to look at my question?

I saw his post regarding this:

ILUBINILWY

SCRIPT

Time to learn about boundaries and go as dark as possible.
If he wants a divorce let him do the work for it.

Yes if you are going to speak with him agree on everything.
But be sure to PROTECT yourself with your actions.

I however did the EXACT OPPOSITE of this. I made all of the arrangements and made it as simple as signing a few pieces of paper, even that was too difficult and any discussions or terms were made between me and her parents as she wasn't involved. I really messed that up.

Considering all of that. I'd love some insight.
Posted By: MrBond Re: My Story - Need Help... Is there hope? - 09/09/13 09:03 AM
I saw that you read DR, but did you understand it? Your question is discussed pretty well in the book.

When was the last time you actually talked to her? What was said and how was the tone? Right now because you are officially D'd, there really isn't much you can do.

What have you been doing for you?
Originally Posted By: truelovewaits

I do need help. More like support. Since my last post, I constantly think of her. I know my love for her continues from a far but my thoughts lately have been only of her. Day and night they continue.


Whenever I see someone say something like this I have one thought- "this person is not getting out and getting a life for themselves." So tell us, what is GAL to you? What GAL activities are you doing, and how often? Be as detailed as you can so we can provide you feedback on it.

Quote:
I wonder does she think of me? Clearly it isn't enough of a thought to motivate any action.


As sad as it is to consider, the WAS really doesn't think much about the LBS. The WAS has convinced themselves that they don't love, and really don't even like the LBS. They believe the LBS is the source of every bad thing in the WAS's life and getting rid of the LBS is the path to the perfect life. All the LBS can do is get the heck out of their way and let them discover that their unhappiness is actually within them.

Quote:
Is the other man that much better?


Typically the OP is a step down from the LBS.

Quote:
Why did she rewrite our history?


To bolster her belief that leaving you is the right thing to do.

Quote:
Will she ever see the truth?


Unknown. Most WAS's do come out of the fog eventually, but some never do.

Quote:
More and more I find that every new event and good time is not as satisfying as I want it to be. It would be better shared, with her.


Have you read the Married Man Sex Life Primer? It's a bit crude and borderline sexist, but it might be a good read for you since you're D'd now. There are a zillion women out there, your XW isn't the only one you can share life's moments with. The book will help you to understand that and give you a roadmap for getting back into the dating scene.

Quote:
I've been looking over the boards but I have not been able to find a similar situation of success. Are there any for men who have lost their wives? After the divorce is final?


It's fairly uncommon, but you might be surprised to hear why. I know of several instances where the WAS tried to reconcile after D, but it was the LBS that shut the door on it. Why? Because there's nothing like D to convince the LBS that things well and truly are over and it's time to move on. So when the WAS comes knocking, the LBS has established a new life for themselves and they don't want to open themselves up to being hurt all over again by a WAS that they've learned not to trust.
It has been a while since I last posted. Many crazy things have happened in my life. I'll avoid that whole story and just give an update that only relates to this...

She wrote me a half-hearten apology denying any wrong and regretting nothing. I have yet to respond. She is getting married to the guy. Love to hear the thoughts of the community.
Posted By: luvless Re: My Story - Need Help... Is there hope? - 11/01/13 03:25 AM
Sorry true…a punch in the stomach is just how it feels. I wouldn't respond to her what will it change? Continue to be good to yourself. It will take a long time to get over this. That marriage probably won't last. I know it doesn't make you feel better but still.

Take care.
I agree with Luvless, no response is needed. Based on what you described it doesn't sound like it deserves the dignity of a response. DB'ing often triggers a soul-searching in the WAS that hopefully leads to growth on their part, but unfortunately it doesn't always work that way. Maybe your W will get there some day, but maybe she won't. But if she doesn't then she's doomed to repeat her failure in the next relationship.
Thanks for the advice. I wouldn't even know where to begin to respond. I just feel this whole thing is tragic and wish it just went differently. So many regrets, yet it seems she doesn't have any. The thing is I don't want anything but happiness for her. I really hope her new relationship doesn't fail- at the same time I would have liked to try to see if we could have made it work. Still, I know life moves forward and that there are others, I just still feel it is a waste to abandon a relationship that was so strong and significant for so long.

Anyway, thanks for the support. I'd love to hear any additional support and/or advice regarding this.
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