Time For Me (Part 3) - DivorceBusting.com

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So I almost posted this over in MLC since I'm pretty sure that's where she is but decided to stay here. My plan is the same so not sure it makes any difference.

Since the last 'incident' I've been pretty quiet with W and only talking when she starts conversation. We did have a short conversation about us Monday night. One topic came up about why I've been quieter and distant lately. Gave her an example of a conversation we had a few weeks ago that's been on my mind. I told her what I remembered saying, she agreed with the words, then told her what I meant (which was shockingly exactly what I said...). I then said this is what I'm afraid you may have heard. She admitted to hearing even worse. The original conversation was very innocent and she agreed that she seems to only hear and believe negatives and can't get over the past. I told her I understood, I take responsibility for my part of the past, and that until I can figure out a way to ensure what I think I'm saying is heard this is what I need to do.

Talked about a few other things and I did a good job listening. I'll admit here that very little made sense or was even real. Her side of the talk had an edge to it but I wouldn't bite and felt very calm so was ok with having talk. She even admitted to interpreting the Bible and saying every verse can be interpreted to fit someones agenda. She knows this is a sore subject with me so I know she was trying to push a button. All I said is I know that people do that and I was glad my interpretation is one of hope, forgiveness, and standing for what you believe in against all odds. I made myself busy shortly after that subject because I could tell she was either about to shut down or get angry because she wasn't able to get to me.

Last weekend I did write a letter stating a bunch of boundaries, explaining how this and that hurt, etc... I sent it to a few people to read. I then reread it and knew it wouldn't accomplish a dang thing and didn't even say what I really wanted. Little too emotion filled. Within couple hours everyone I sent it to responded with their own version of WTF are you trying to accomplish with this? It was quickly deleted, never to be seen again. It did make me feel a little better to write it though...

Overall I'm doing pretty good and had a great GAL weekend last week (besides 15 minutes to write letter

). The feeling of being gut punched is still lingering but rather then fighting it I'm just letting it be there but not letting it control me. I think the reality of my sitch is setting in and the light I was hoping was at the end of the tunnel feels like it's dimming.

I've also started working on her charity stuff again. I took about 4-6 weeks off from it because I started doubting if my reasons were pure (did I have expectations?). I started feeling used and under appreciated for what I was doing and I knew that would end poorly. Fact is now I have very little hope (sad but true) of anything in my sitch changing before next court date and I have no expectations of this charity making one bit of difference with our sitch. I know how important it is to her and nothing has gotten done since I backed off and no way she'll ever ask me for help. Bottom line, if she's my W, if she's my friend, or if she's an alien that hates me, I know it's important to her, I love her, I can do it without feeling used, so I'm helping again.

Next step I need to do is more GAL during the week and doing a few more things with just the kids and I during the weekend. If honest I'm still not sure I'm ready for it or even want to because I LOVE our family time together but I know I need to.

Spartan, I have a question. Have you ever intentionally tried to push someone's buttons?

I ask because I don't think I have and I've never felt that my H did. But I posted on my thread that sometimes I would keep at something trying to say it in a different way, with different words or even raising my voice.

[b] As I said earlier, our pattern had been I would bring up some problem, he would shut down, I would continue to "nag" and he would further shut down...Why did I continue when I could see he was shutting down?

With this event on Sat, I wanted to continue until he gave me something and I've just discovered what that is, validation.[b]

Could that be considered pushing someone's buttons?

I hear that thing about pushing buttons on here a quite often and wonder how many people actually do intentionally push another's buttons or is that just our interpretation?

Yes I have intentionally pushed someone's buttons...in a work setting. I'll occasionally do things to see how someone will react, especially someone I'm (or a different manager) are considering promoting (or letting go).

In personal setting, I don't think I've ever set out to intentionally do it but something that would happen. I know the things I can do with W that make her shut down. I admit I would go there if a "discussion" wasn't going my way or she wasn't getting how smart I really am. I think the majority of time it's used as a defense mechanism for people to get off a topic they aren't comfortable with. Yes, it's wrong and I realize now what I was doing and have worked very hard to not touch her buttons.

I think if you set out to push buttons you're just trying to start a fight and what good is that? I don't think I've ever intentionally started a fight but God knows I backed into my fair share. We never had that crazy make up sex I've heard about so no benefit of starting a fight.

My interpretation for what I've been saying regarding my W is I know without a doubt she knows my old triggers (buttons). She keeps 'probing' those areas to see how I'll react. I think of it as a test. Does she do it intentionally? Who knows??? Like I said I think it's a defense mechanism and she's not comfortable with this new version of me. I know my W brings up things to try and get a reaction. Lately I pass the majority of these tests but believe me, if I fail one that's the one she remembers and uses against me.

I think this is interesting because of the interpretations we put on the actions of others due to the stuff that's in our heads.

Like, I don't really know why my H shuts down but my interpretation in the past has been that he's stubborn, mule-headed, won't stoop so low as to argue, thinks he's perfect, he just doesn't care, all kinds of things that may or not be true, none of them reflect well on him.

It could be that it scares the crap out of him to have a confrontation with me, or he can't in the moment come up with something nice to say so chooses to say nothing or he knows that he just can't win.

I'm learning to stop that auto interpretation, slowly learning I might add, because I don't know why he does what he does. So if I just take it as it comes, without too much mind-reading and taking my emotion out of it, life gets much easier.

This takes a lot of conscious effort. I try to practice this with everyone, so it does get easier.

Very interesting thread. I think I was a button pusher because it is a form of validation and reinforcement I terms of what you get out of a sitch, emotion, interaction etc.,is reinforcement, whether its positive or not.

Now I just don't do that anymore. A big part is that H is gone, so I am not frustrated or upset really, anymore. Weird....but good

I wonder Spartan when you feel she's pushing buttons, how do you respond to her.

And Ruby, how did you push buttons? Were you doing it consciously? Or were you as I described trying to be heard, validated?

When I was angry or feeling not in control, I pushed them consciously. But I think it was more of a way to say " look at me, why don't you understand how I feel" without having to bare my emotions. Anger is easy. Pain, hurt, resentment low self esteem is not....
So in a way, yes, I wanted a sort of validation for my emotions, if someone was disagreeing or I felt down or depressed.

An example would be if I was feeling blah about something at home or complained about school. H's reply would be along the lines of the wonderful life I had, doing what I wanted ( which is true). But all I needed was validation that my life could be tough on occasion even if I loved doing what I was doing.

An example would be if I was feeling blah about something at home or complained about school. H's reply would be along the lines of the wonderful life I had, doing what I wanted ( which is true). But all I needed was validation that my life could be tough on occasion even if I loved doing what I was doing.

BINGO!

We often just want someone to HEAR us, exactly what we preach here about validation!

There's an old song by The Who that starts out, See me, hear me, touch me, feel me.

Learning to state needs is so difficult because we're told we shouldn't have any, or that we're bad people if we just don't go on with our lot in life (there are starving children in Armenia was the line from my parents)

Learning to listen for needs is even more difficult.

Originally Posted By: labug

Spartan, I have a question. Have you ever intentionally tried to push someone's buttons?

I could write a book on how my W pushes my buttons!! She knows it's going to make me mad, but she does it anyway, then when I do get mad she acts surprised and upset that I get angry "so easily" which is yet another form of pushing my buttons. So she pushes buttons to get me started, then pushes more to aggravate the sitch. I have no idea why she does it. Attention? She felt hurt so wanted me to hurt too? She was bored? Who knows. I'm usually pretty even-keeled, so I tended not to react too much when she pushed my buttons. But those times I did react, she would go into a button-pushing frenzy, LOL!

Just a couple of examples of her button-pushing:

I'm colorblind and purple colors look wierd to me. She wanted to paint our bedroom (which in itself is strange because she never, ever does house projects, that's on me) and what does she choose? 3 shades of purple. She showed the samples to me and I told her they looked terrible. I said "they might look OK to you, but you know I'm colorblind and these colors don't look the same to me, I don't like them at all, they clash with each other and everything in the room." So she then proceeded to paint the whole room with those colors when I was at work the next day.

I can't stand the feel of silk/ satin. It's like fingernails on a chalkboard is to some people, it just makes me shudder. W knows it to the extent that she always makes me try to feel satin dresses and stuff just to see my reaction. I came home one day and what do I find on the bed? Satin PILLOWCASES!! Really? Really? LOL!

Originally Posted By: AnotherStander

Originally Posted By: labug

Spartan, I have a question. Have you ever intentionally tried to push someone's buttons?

I could write a book on how my W pushes my buttons!! She knows it's going to make me mad, but she does it anyway, then when I do get mad she acts surprised and upset that I get angry "so easily" which is yet another form of pushing my buttons. So she pushes buttons to get me started, then pushes more to aggravate the sitch. I have no idea why she does it. Attention? She felt hurt so wanted me to hurt too? She was bored? Who knows. I'm usually pretty even-keeled, so I tended not to react too much when she pushed my buttons. But those times I did react, she would go into a button-pushing frenzy, LOL!

Just a couple of examples of her button-pushing:

I'm colorblind and purple colors look wierd to me. She wanted to paint our bedroom (which in itself is strange because she never, ever does house projects, that's on me) and what does she choose? 3 shades of purple. She showed the samples to me and I told her they looked terrible. I said "they might look OK to you, but you know I'm colorblind and these colors don't look the same to me, I don't like them at all, they clash with each other and everything in the room." So she then proceeded to paint the whole room with those colors when I was at work the next day.

I can't stand the feel of silk/ satin. It's like fingernails on a chalkboard is to some people, it just makes me shudder. W knows it to the extent that she always makes me try to feel satin dresses and stuff just to see my reaction. I came home one day and what do I find on the bed? Satin PILLOWCASES!! Really? Really? LOL!

I am sorry, that is really a terrible thing to do...but it made me laugh

And the Really? Came out in my H's voice, the incredulity and all, that it cracked me up....

Sorry again, :), but man, your wife wins the button award

Ruby

Spartan still rooting for you

Thanks buddy. Still treading along here with no visible movement in sitch. Our D mediation date has been set for April 25th with next court on May 28th. The dates add pressure to me. I know I shouldn't let them but what can I say, just being honest. Part of me wishes I had limbo...time doesn't seem to be on my side. Yes I know it's just a piece of paper and doesn't have to end at D and I've read the threads, it's just...enough babbling

I've had more bad moments emotionally lately but keeping them away from W, she's just seeing PMA. The 'sad/ hurt' emotions don't last long and don't affect what I do, they're just popping up a little more than before. I think the triggers are mainly with me knowing I'm not the same person I was but it not seeming to make any difference in sitch. I've also learned a few things along the way about W that aren't sitting so well and have me questioning what I really want. Even though this has hurt me worse than I ever imagined I am grateful for it. I'm a much better person now than I've ever been in my life. I now have a toolbox that's starting to fill up. I trust God has a plan for me and I'm going with the flow.

For most part W and I are barely talking about anything other than kids. Last several days her illness was really bad which I absolutely hate seeing. I did ask about it once but she was pretty clear it was a bad idea to ask so I kept quiet. Just went about my day and tried to keep kids a little busier so they wouldn't bug her. Our schedules don't align this week so won't see much of her until Sunday night which is fine.

It's really tough for me to watch all this happen to W. I think I've mentioned before I fully believe she's in MLC and possibly has been for quite a while. Watching how she's changed and how she acts so indecisive and confused (and hateful) is hard to watch. On top of that this last weekend when her illness flared back up was especially tough. She's a strong woman and to watch what this can do to her $ucks, especially since she wants no help from me anymore. Scares me thinking about what could happen to her after D. I know it's not my problem or decision but I still don't like it.

We went to Easter church service which of course was filled with hope. Funny how this time I didn't hear so much about hope for my M but instead I heard hope for MY future... W did join me to watch TV last night for first time in a LONG time. Likely nothing and we didn't talk but surprised me to see her sit down next to me.

As far as GAL been hanging out with friends more than before. Still working out a bunch. Have a 10k race coming up in 2 weeks followed by half marathon, tough mudder, and full marathon later in year. Starting playing pickup basketball at gym also, all new guys so good to meet new people. Coaching starts in about a month so that's always fun with the kids. Kids and I are also doing a lot of things with just 3 of us with more planned if weather here in Michigan ever turns (snowing again today). Now that MLB is going will likely catch a Tigers game or two in next few weeks with friends. When I'm home I'm reading or doing some spring cleaning (accumulated a lot of junk over the years...). Last one may not be GALing but needs to be done

Good for you, Spartan. I'm in the same sitch with looming dates. We just have to keep on keeping on, right?

Ooh, tough mudder.....I wanna do that one when I am growed.

Running has saved my life, I think, since BD. used to hate it and now have booked two ten k and two halfs.....

Those hurt/sad emotions pop up at the strangest times, don't they?

Sorry brother. You're right there is nothing you can do but let her take her course. Like a hurricane waiting it out. Just keep doing the positive things to change you.

You know it is sad to say I still don't know what PMA stands for and I've been on this forum forever

PMA - Positive Mental Attitude

ah or fake it lol. Gotcha. Been there. Displaying happiness on the outside and a wreck on the inside

Originally Posted By: Inside Out

I am sorry, that is really a terrible thing to do...but it made me laugh

No need to be sorry, I laugh when I think about it and I tell it because I think it's a funny story, so your reaction was perfect

Originally Posted By: Spartan

Our D mediation date has been set for April 25th with next court on May 28th.

What is the wait time in your state? It's 60 days here in TX, but I've heard a lot of states have gone to a year.

Quote:

W did join me to watch TV last night for first time in a LONG time. Likely nothing and we didn't talk but surprised me to see her sit down next to me.

I think we get so jaded after months and months of nothing happening that when a baby step does happen, we tend to dismiss it as a fluke. My W did something similar recently- sat down on the couch at my house and just hung out for a while. It didn't dawn on my until later that it had been a LONG time since she had done that. I think that what she did and what your W did shows an increase in the comfort level, and that's a good sign. There are hardly ever any big moves in our sitches, you have to watch for the small ones like this to see any movement at all.

Originally Posted By: PowerOfNow

ah or fake it lol. Gotcha. Been there. Displaying happiness on the outside and a wreck on the inside

Yeah. I was just telling someone I may have missed my true calling in life. I never thought much about acting but I seem to have a real knack for it.

Wait time here in MI with kids is 6 months. Will be 6 months in 10 days so mediation and court date are past that.

It might have been a baby step but who knows with her. I'm not reacting to it or really giving it much thought. Mentioned it because I thought it was odd and most likely a little of the distant/ pursuit dynamic. I'll just continue to do my thing and try and stick to my plan as much as possible.

Couple new GAL activities seem to be coming up. Friends are starting a golf league and invited me in. I used to golf a LOT which was an issue before S5 was born so I quit. Kind of excited to start back up and really like guys in the league. Hope it fits in my schedule (spring/ summer are so busy).

The other one that I'd love to do but doesn't look like it will work is an over 30 fast pitch baseball league. Friends team, which is pretty good, lost both their 2B and CF which are positions I played in my younger days. I don't think my knees are up for CF but 2B would be a blast. Right now I just can't figure out a way to fit it in my schedule unless I give up coaching which I can't do. Love coaching kids and watching them progress through a season. Maybe I can get on the team during second half of season...

Wow, that's some serious GAL! I love it! Also glad to hear about the PMA...keep it going man.

I'm doing Mudder in the fall too...currently just lifting, but will have to integrate some serious running as it gets warmer. Have you done it before?

My SIL is talking about doing a half-marathon, which I might do with her....but probably nothing beyond that. I just don't like running all that much.

And now that you mention it, my golf league starts tomorrow! I'm not good, but throw in a few buddies and a few beers and it's a blast regardless.

Spartan, you sound strong and confident. Good for you that you're planning activities that bring you excitement and joy.

Thank you for your support. I really appreciate it :-)

Been almost 2 weeks since I posted so figure I'd update a little, yes it's another book.

Happy 6 month anniversary to me!!! 6 months ago my W BD'd and filed on me (yep, same day). I knew things weren't great but stupid me thought we were finally getting on the right track and I didn't pick up on any warning signs that she didn't feel the same way. I spent this morning reflecting on where I was and where I am now and what a ride it's been. Have to say no matter what happens with my M I'm glad I went through this for me. I'm in such a better place now than I've ever been and I can clearly see where I want to get to.

It wasn't easy to get to where I'm at now and I know I still have a long ways to go to get to where I want to be. A few weeks after BD, when I was asking the why questions, doing everything wrong with W, starting to look at myself and the person I had become I got to the lowest point anyone can get to. I never imagined that a Christian man who is big into the men's ministry at church, a person with enough 'close' friends that I didn't feel alone, a man who loved his W and kids more than anything would ever consider suicide (yes I said it) but I had hit rock bottom. It makes me sick even thinking about that morning as I write this but that's where I had let myself get to.

Thankfully something hit me and I realized what I was considering. I pulled myself out of it and decided it was time to own all my $hit and make the changes I needed. I manned up. I read like crazy and started looking at myself and started making some progress. Then a couple people on these boards (one in particular) took me under their wing and the journey really began. Started asking me the real hard questions that I never wanted asked and I dug deep to answer them. The layers started peeling away, I still have plenty to uncover about myself but the big ones were now out there and the scabs were pulled off. We discussed my fears and how they drove my actions, my abandonment issues and impacts on my actions and thoughts, my feelings of obligation, my control issues and even bigger my fear of being controlling, trust, forgiveness, honesty, guilt, feelings of superiority, my judgemental attitude, codependency, all of it... With those out there other topics started being discussed to help define who I wanted to be. I had to answer things like what is love, what it means to be a father and what legacy I was leaving, what it means to be a husband, a friend, what are love languages and mars/venus stuff, what does loyalty and obligation really mean to me, what do my vows mean, understanding I need to feel my feelings and not be the macho guy and bury them, what validation and empathy are and why they're so important, what does it mean to cherish and respect someone, etc...).

I still have my up and down days regarding my M sitch but I don't try to fight my feelings, I just let them happen and don't let them control my actions. I still sometimes question my strategies with how I'm handling my sitch. I question why I still have trust issues and where my boundaries really are for many things in life. I have to say though, I have way more up days than down ones and the choices and decisions I'm making are in line with who I really want to be. I'm also (finally) letting my W go and figure out her own stuff and trying not to fix her anymore. Figure I have enough to fix on me that I have no time, or right, to try and fix anyone else... I'm also done beating myself up for my past wrongs and I'm done letting my W use our past against me. I own what I did but I've learned from those mistakes and also understand it wasn't all me.

My relationship with my kids, while always good in the 'fun' father/ kid relationship has taken on a whole new level. I am the rock they need, they are talking with me very candidly, I am passing on lesson's and wisdom when I can. With that a new level of trust has grown and we are closer now then ever and I'm honestly enjoying every single minute and it's obvious to everyone around us. No more of the 'obligation' feelings of the past. I'm also happy to say I've never said or implied anything to them negatively about their mom through this process.

Overall, yeah this process $ucks the big one and I feel for every single person that has to go through it. I know I have some very tough times still ahead of me but I wouldn't change a thing. I'm proud of who I've become and who I'm becoming, I'm proud of how I've stood, I'm proud of the father I am, and I now know who I am and where my happiness needs to come from.

So - since this is a marriage site I might as well update the thread on my sitch. This will hopefully for you be shorter then above. Overall W and I are treading along towards D. We have mediation on 4/25 and court on 5/28. I don't instigate talks much anymore but with that she has started them much more and I'm not avoiding those. I've become a good listener and I validate much better and try to understand her feelings. I'm still not perfect and every talk I think of something I could have done a little better but I'm way better than I was before. She seems a lot more comfortable and is talking a lot as of late, especially about things that were never discussed before (her work, things her friends/ family have done, etc...).

We've only had one real R talk in last couple weeks, well it was actually 4 talks spread out through one day with her initiating each one. Our hot button is still issues regarding kids but the talks went well with me staying very even keel throughout and trying to understand her side while still discussing my thoughts when appropriate. At one point, in response to a question, I discussed things I would see in a new M and things I would expect differently from me. She was thinking a lot and I could sense some doubt entering into her mind. She told me she has started seeing an IC again and said that we may talk in future... I honestly have no expectations of ever even having this next talk but I know she knows exactly where I stand so her move and I'm ok if she doesn't make one and we continue with the process. I won't lie to you though, this talk did get in my head a little for a few days. Not with excitement or new hope but whether R is really what I even want anymore. Questioning whether I think she could fulfill my needs. I've also realized this week that I no longer have my W on the pedestal I've placed her on for much of the last 6 months. This is a good feeling to have, our resident wordsmith explains it much better than I can:

Originally Posted By: Accuracy

Just as the WAS is in a fog, the LBS is in a fog too. You want the situation resolved immediately and at too high of a personal cost because you are also in a fog. You know what? The WAS that left really wasn't that great. Can you get perspective on that? The marriage only feels like it was such a great thing because you can't have it. Your spouse is on a pedestal only because they are out of reach. If there was a pill that would give you perspective on that quickly, we'd all be DB pros, but it's something you come to only with time unfortunately.

So, 6 months later I really have no idea where my M is headed and I can honestly say I'm ok with whichever direction it goes. I'm better now then I've ever been in my life and I'm looking forward to the next 6 months and beyond. Thank you so much for all your support!!!

Interesting...

I was just thinking about you. You don't call, you don't write anymore...

Sheesh...

Glad you are doing well

I am glad to read your update. You sound really well :-)

Oh....

He can write....

Did you get through that ^^^^ ???

Makes In Search of Lost Time look like a short story....

Good ness !!!

You sound good man....I'm glad to hear it.

You don't sound like you even need a hug today, but what the hell (((Spartan)))

LMAO ^^^^

Must be that dammed Tea....???

I skimmed it...

I thought the days of novels were over with...

Guess I was wrong. At least that is how it looks these days.

Sigh...I told you before, I'm not that bright or articulate so I have to write a lot in hopes that one good point will come out.

Thanks for the ((())) BD, you know how I love those.

Cat - Now I feel bad. I never heard back after I apologized so figured you were pissed at me so just giving you space

[quote=cat04]I thought the days of novels were over with.../quote]

I think the N00bs are learning... it's those who have been here a while that still seem to have trouble with... conciseness...

Originally Posted By: Kaffe Diem

[quote=cat04]I thought the days of novels were over with.../quote]

I think the N00bs are learning... it's those who have been here a while that still seem to have trouble with... conciseness...

I was actually thinking the same thing...

Hope everyone is well...

Originally Posted By: Spartan

Sigh...I told you before, I'm not that bright or articulate so I have to write a lot in hopes that one good point will come out.

You shoulda went Blue....

Hey KD ....

Good to see you around....

Things good ????

Originally Posted By: Spartan

Cat - Now I feel bad. I never heard back after I apologized so figured you were pissed at me so just giving you space

My bad...

I was just giving you grief

I get lazy, and I have my own sources of intel...

If I am pissed...you would know. I don't do that whole passive aggressive silence thing.

Originally Posted By: Mach1

You shoulda went Blue....

You know those are fighting words. Meaner than anything W has said in weeks...

* waves to cat and mach *

Hey y'all, yeah... doing well enough.

Spartan, I think you need to be a bit more assertive here and take your thread back...

Just do it in one paragraph, though...

Spartan you sound good and I am glad.

I am sure it's the Tea.....

W and I had a pretty tough weekend. Saturday morning at race was an absolute blast together and as family but then it went downhill after that. I hate to admit it but this time it spun me out pretty good. Reason why I haven't been around much last couple days. Few days there felt like November all over again... She said some pretty cold, hurtful stuff, and sadly I flung a few truth arrows of my own. I've slowly gotten to the point where enough is enough and it was time to call BS for what it is. Right or wrong, $hit just needs to be said sometimes (i.e. explained how her actions were hurting kids and me). I know it didn't help matters at all and I wish it didn't happen the way it did but what's done is done. I beat myself up for a couple days. Mostly because I was disappointed in myself for letting her get to me and now I'm back to normal.
*Caveat - I don't recommend doing this and it was wrong from a DB aspect. Do as I say, not as I do type thing going on... I've made a few DB mistakes over the last several weeks getting away from my strategy. The strategy, while it didn't feel right, seemed to be improving the sitch so why wouldn't I change back to what felt right? (sarcasm there). When things started going good I dropped my guard and got stung. I've received enough 2x4's last few days and I know what I've been doing wrong but feel free to swing away if you want

. Here's a few of the cleaner ones I've heard so you'll have to come up with better than this:

�What is ok is to move forward for you and forget her words
�You have to let this $hit go, what's wrong with you
�So, she defines you? Who you wanna be?
�Why not try something different?
�What's YOUR plan? Don't put any kids emotions on her, it's not gonna happen. You fix this
�You are stronger than you have been the past few days. Stop pussyfootin around and stand...dignity, honor, and grace...accept nothing less
�Events don't matter as much as how you handle the events
�Stop F'n around and do it then

I was told it would happen and it did; the very next day my W acted like nothing had happened or was said the day before. She acted like everything was status quo... She's been acting "normal" ever since. Just shows how emotion fueled she is right now.

Few kid incidents also arose again where she made promises she didn't keep and they got hurt which didn't help. Hurting me I can take to a point, hurting kids is what I struggle with... I also feel responsible because I could have done a better job protecting them and myself.

So, where does that leave me? Got a few new scars but I'm back to feeling strong and knowing who I want to be. I'm just going to live it for the next month. I was challenged last night to go one month without talking, thinking about future or past, and get my $hit together and get back to being the man I am, not the 'Alice' I've been acting like the last few weeks. I also need to get back to protecting my kids more. (i.e. bed time is at 9:00, mom promises to be home by 9:30, kids will be going to bed at 9:00...no more waiting up with no call and eventual tears/ anger from kids with me picking up pieces). I need to keep expectations in line with the current reality. I also will give myself more space from W and create distance again. I'm obviously not to a point yet where I can be close friends and do everything together and not get off my center.

Crap...another book. Sigh...

Oh, Spartan, I am so the queen of making up my own sh*t as I go along. But, DB helps me to not go off the rails, and I find that those scars heal a little quicker, because I now have the tools to deal with them (how I use the tools is up to me and I have been known to use the pot as a hammer...)

This is not linear. Sure we move ahead with ourselves, our growth our lives, but it is very cyclical too. I, myself, have been in a bit of an anger phase lately, but am letting it go these past few days (with success I must say).

So while you see telling wife that actions are hurtful, I see it as a boundary. Simply you stating that these actions do not benefit myself or children, so I won't engage with you when they occur. Sure, you'd like to have stated it in another way, but hindsight is 20/20 and just sometimes an eye opener is needed by WAS. Whether or not they are ready to have eyes opened is another story lmao!

But boundaries are about us, not them.

Spartan, I felt I had to do the same about 6 months ago. Huge temp check because I still needed someone else to define my path for me.

In my weaker moments I still slide back there but I just keep to the mantra, This is about me.

That part of me gets stronger every day.

Originally Posted By: labug

But boundaries are about us, not them.

Fully agree!!! That's what I meant when I said sometimes things finally have to be said. Going along being friendly and pretending to be a happy family, while great at times was also hurting me deep down because I saw the other side. Assuming she remembers and didn't shut down, she knows why I'm not talking as much, acting like BF's, or pretending to be the happy cohesive family any longer. Those things are still possible in the future if she makes decisions that don't hurt me and the kids, until then I'm done pretending when it's convenient for her. What I said had nothing to do with trying to make her see what I think she's doing wrong, make her see she's hurting people, or even make her see my point of view. It was to explain the reasons I won't accept it any longer and the outcomes to her decisions.

From BD's thread:

Originally Posted By: Mach1

But Spartan is right...

I had to document that in my own thread.

I might be getting closer to where I want to be than I thought

.

Let the games begin...

Originally Posted By: Spartan

From BD's thread:

Originally Posted By: Mach1

But Spartan is right...

I had to document that in my own thread.

Well kid, you threw one by me.

Savour the flavour, cause it sure as hell won't happen again.

In the meantime, good luck to you

Marty, cut a check to Callahan Auto for those brake pads!

There ya go Mr Movie quote guy....

Oh Spartan, did you really say let the games begin to Mach?

You have no idea, do you?
Good luck to ya, man. Good luck. LOL!

Tommy Boy...nicely played

Yeah uRworthy, I know what I'm doing

(famous last words). Sometimes these threads can be so serious I try to inject a little humor. It's hard enough living this without that

I hear ya, back in the day we used to have some of the best times on our threads.

We used to have a virtual party thread every so often.

With music, food and drink choices. And then there were the games. Man, the things people came up with.

Sense of humor goes a long way.

^^^ yep.^^^ That is how I survive

Thanks for the humor. I love movie quotes (and Seinfeld quotes).

Life isn't about waiting for the storms to pass.....
It's about learning to dance in the rain!

No soup for you!

Nice work cbt!

Sorry Spartan, your thread has been taken over again.

LOL, no problem at all guys. I love the humor in the thread. I also love movies so here are a bunch of quotes (I'm bored and I have a file saved with this stuff in it...)

"It's not who you love. It's how." - Chasing Amy

�Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies.� - The Shawshank Redemption

"Love is not a feeling, it's an ability" - Dan in Real Life

"The ones who are hardest to love are usually the ones who need it the most.� - Peaceful Warrior

�I�m gonna punch you in the ovary, that�s what I�m gonna do. A straight shot, right to the babymaker.� - Anchorman
What can I say, I have a little anger mixed in today

"A man who doesn't spend time with his family can never be a real man" - Vito Corleone - The Godfather

"Remember those posters that said, "Today is the first day of the rest of your life"? Well, that's true of every day but one...the day you die." - American Beauty

"I�ve been listening to my gut since I was 14 years old, and frankly speaking, I�ve come to the conclusion that my guts have $hit for brains.� - High Fidelity

"Every man dies, not every man really lives." - William Wallace

�It's only after we've lost everything that we're free to do anything.� - Fight Club

�You know how they say you only hurt the ones you love? Well, it works both ways.� - Fight Club

"�At the time, my life just seemed too complete, and maybe we have to break everything to make something better out of ourselves.� - Fight Club

�If you don't know what you want," the doorman said, "you end up with a lot you don't.� - Fight Club

"Real loss is only possible when you love something more than you love yourself." - Good Will Hunting

"You'll have bad times, but it'll always wake you up to the good stuff you weren't paying attention to." - Good Will Hunting

"You see? You just can't trust anyone. The first girl I let into my life and she tries to eat me." - Zombieland
See, it could be worse...

"You can't spend all your time worrying about where your next Twinkie is going to come from, so follow rule #32 and Enjoy The Little Things." - Zombieland

"...it was my integrity that was important. Is that so selfish? It sells for so little, but it's all we have left in this place. It is the very last inch of us...but within that inch we are free.� - V for Vendetta

Finally, these are for Mach since I once mentioned I like this movie. I'm the only guy strong enough to admit it...

"So it�s not gonna be easy. It�s gonna be really hard. We�re gonna have to work at this every day, but I want to do that because I want you. I want all of you, forever, you and me, every day�" - The Notebook

"The best love is the kind that awakens the soul; that makes us reach for more, that plants the fire in our hearts and brings peace to our minds. That�s what I hope to give you forever." � The Notebook

�I am no one special. Just a common man with common thoughts. There are no monuments dedicated to me and my name will soon be forgotten. But in one respect I have succeeded as gloriously as anyone who has ever lived. I�ve loved another with all my heart and soul and for me that has always been enough.� - The Notebook

Good quotes all.

And now you have left yourself wide open to Mach by saying you liked the notebook. LOL!

Personally, I think it takes a real man to admit it.

Come on, Mach, I aint skeerd. Hee hee.

(grabs popcorn)

Great quotes.

uRworthy, "I ain't skeerd". Hilarious. You must be southern.

Hey Grizz, nah, I'm a New Yorker through and through.

That was for my good friend, Mach. LOL!

Well how about that. Skeerd coming from a New Yorker.

I have just heard that all of my life.

Yesterday D4 said "dad, I know where the Statue of Liberty is. It is in Yew Nork!"
She cracks me up.

Hey Grizz, well, you know what they say - New York is the melting pot of the world. We'd say, "Whatcha freakin' gonna do about it?" LOL!

So cute that your daughter said that. They make it all worthwhile, dont they?

LOL!!!
And yes, my two D are what keeps me going through all of this madness.

Wow...

Yea, I see "Man cards" getting pulled ....

I'm gonna go a different route here for the quotes...

Some of my favorites from DBers over the years, and feel free to add on...

Standing doesn't mean to stand still----Fisherman

DBing and standing takes its toll, please provide exact change----Jimbo

Life is how you handle plan B---JackThreeBeans

Listen without defending, and speak without offending---FaithAK

Hey Mach, you use one of mine all the time - "The only way through it, is to do it." Just sayin. I want my nickel. LOL!

Just because I like chick flicks doesn't mean I should lose my man card. My last 24 hours:

Quoted Fight Club (3x) & Braveheart
Ran 5 miles
Watched couple innings of Tigers game
Watched Fight Club and part of Gladiator
Did some Muay Thai training
Ate Oreos for lunch
Took apart a dishwasher and ordered new pump
Watched MSU spring football scrimmage (Green & White game)
Played with kids (so much fun!!!)
Sang at church and discussed setting up new men's small group
Read some of Mars & Venus book
Now getting ready to watch UFC

I would say you really like the movie, "Fight Club." Just a guess.

It was a great movie.

And wow, those are some manly things to do, Spartan, especially the oreos for lunch. LOL!

Think I'm going to go watch The Notebook...go ahead and try to take away my man card! Good list Spartan...thanks for posting...

I wouldn't watch The Notebook on a bet, or anything by Nicholas Sparks, but that's just me...

What card of mine gets pulled?

Been a while since my last update so here goes. I really need to update more so these don't always turn into books...

Mediation on the 25th was rescheduled to 5/1 due to mediator scheduling issue. The mediation went terrible. Going into it I thought we were close on everything and only a little off on custody (i.e. I wanted 50/50 and she was at 6/14 days for me every 2 weeks). They came in with completely different requests (started with I'd get 4/14 and said they'd consider 5/14 days for me). The custody and money weren't anything like what we discussed and her L was unwilling to move. She even got caught in a lie during the mediation... So we're headed to court and I'm sure things will get more unpleasant. I'll stick with facts and not let emotions drive my actions. I won't waiver from my mantra of acting with honor, dignity, and grace no matter what she tries to do.

W and I did talk a little since then regarding the custody and I proposed a schedule that I felt was fair and worked for both us and more importantly the kids. She said she'd think about it but wouldn't agree. I tried to discuss why she felt entitled to more time so I could understand where she was coming from but most her points didn't make sense or just weren't factual. I countered every one of her reasons with facts and I stayed calm through entire discussion. She did bait me a couple times trying to hit old buttons but I didn't let it affect me. This portion of the discussion I didn't validate much because she's trying to take my kids from me. It got so ridiculous that her last point to why she thought she deserved more custody was because she made the grocery lists every week... She knows without a doubt I'm ready to fight in court for the kids so we'll see what happens, I hope she reconsiders and does what's fair and right for the kids. Other than that it's been pretty quiet. I really have nothing to say to her and it's been close to full LRT (as close as can be in same house).

The charity race that I helped her setup (truth be told I did most the work) I'm still continuing to work on. One of the things she complained about was I didn't finish things so I'm finishing this one. I finished up a few loose ends this weekend and everything should be ready to go. I'm also going to run in the race since she didn't get as many runners as she wanted and I want to get a half in anyway. I might not go to the post party or if I do I'll just play with the kids. It will only be her family and her new friends going, all our old couple friends have told me they aren't going any more... I feel for whatever reason I should still run it and I think I'll be able to get through it without being hurt (sadly I'm pretty much numb to everything with her anymore).

Since mediation I've had an eerie calm about my sitch. I don't feel much of anything towards saving my M at this time. Before I wanted to R so bad that I was letting myself get hurt because of my own expectations/ hopes. Now I'm just going about my life and I see W as person trying to take my kids away. I'm not angry, or hostile, I'm just ready to fight for what I believe in.

I also know I still love my W but it feels like it's a different kind of love. I care about her and want her to be happy but (at this time) I don't think I want her in my life anymore. Never know what tomorrow brings but that's how I feel today and it's been building to this for quite a while.

As expected GAL has picked up even more. After mediation last Wednesday I had first T-ball practice (I'm coach) and working with kids is a riot. It was exactly what I needed after mediation. Thursday golf league started which was a blast. Friday my D7 and I volunteered at a special needs prom. She was a greeter and I was a buddy for someone for the night. One of the most amazing nights I've had, so much fun and so proud that my D7 enjoys serving so much. My buddy from dance and I have even texted a little since. Very cool!!! Saturday had another T-ball practice then hung out with kids rest of day and we did some yard work, went for bike ride(s), and went hiking and geocaching. First time trying that and we found both things we looked for. Sunday went to church, went for a nice run, then played outside with kids rest of day.

Good to hear from you Spartan.

I think fighting for time with the kids is an absolute.

Sounds like your doing very well for what your up against. Keep up the GAL and be ready for shifts in your emotions.

Keep posting, we are here for you.

The GAL is extremely important. I didn't feel like I was doing enough of it, or with the right attitude, until just a few weeks ago...but of course, I had the T-factor helping me

.

Continue to focus on you. What do you want out of life? What are your plans going forward?

sorry Spartan.I am pretty certain my W would use the exact same antics when coming to custody. Make sure you have a good lawyer. There is no reason during present times that you can't have 50/50 custody unless you are abusive etc. It isn't the 70's anymore

I'm in the midst of it too Spartan.

My stbx filed for full custody and just 2 weeks ago we finally settled on custody. 50/50 for my younger 2 and I have primary for our oldest.

It was extremely stressful and will test every ounce of you.

My best to you.

It's always good to hear a dad getting 50/50 custody. I firmly believe that a 50/50 split is in the best interest for the kids if the parents are both engaged in their children's lives.

I'm scared to death that even with all my time spent with my kids and the things my W has done that a judge may dictate when I can see my kids. Sadly I know even if I got my best case scenario of 50/50 it won't be enough for me (or my kids)...

W and I haven't really talked except for one custody discussion since last Wed. I (finally after much urging) decided it was time for this to protect myself from getting hurt anymore. I won't lie, this is much more difficult then I thought it would be. I'm a pretty laid back, have fun and joke around type of person and being quiet and/or unavailable isn't my thing. W has tried to have small talk every day and seems to linger around where I am more than before. I'm polite and listen if she initiates small talk but I'm very short with responses and then leave the room at first opportunity. I SO want to engage in these talks because I do care about her and what's going on in her life. Problem is I want more then to just be friends and I've continually let myself get $ucked back in which inevitably leads to hurt that I won't allow any longer.

In our last custody discussion I proposed a 5-5-2 schedule and I'm now trying to live it. I'm scheduling my GAL stuff on days I wouldn't have kids and staying scarce on those nights until kids go to bed. This should give us each more space and give us a taste of (potentially) our new life. Of course this week she comes home Tuesday night (first Tuesday in 3-4 months she didn't go to group) and then last night comes to T-ball practice and watches entire thing (new also...)).

Overall I'm still doing good and really enjoying my GALing activities. I made a list of hobbies I would like to either try or start doing again so will be starting a few new things there as well. One new thing is I've always ran alone but running with marathon training group starting this Saturday morning.

W and I plan on trying 50/50 custody with a running 3 day rotation. I hope that this isn't too hard on the kids. I just couldn't imagine going longer than that without seeing them.

It is tough, but it sounds like you are doing good. Stick with it, and keep smiling!

Have you been documenting anything regarding your child care?

If not begin immediately and go back and backdate as far and as accurate as you can. How often you watch them, take them to school, pick them up, take them to extra curriculars, put them to be, etc...

From what I've heard and read most judges don't want to disrupt the kids lives as much as possible so if you have been their primary caretaker for half of the time or close to it, which it seems like you have, it would be out of the ordinary for your stbx to be granted full custody.

At least in my state it would be.

Yeah, I have a daily log of my time with the kids since last Christmas day. I also have a calendar showing nights I have them alone vs. when we share getting them dinner and to bed. I also have the normal school hours schedule showing who gets them to and from school. Before Christmas I have the general parenting time schedules going all the way back to my D's birth. 12 weeks after she was born my W went to work afternoon/ night shifts so I watched D 4 nights a week alone and continued this schedule until S was 1.5 years old. W then got sick and schedules changed because of that.

I've worked this out every which way I can and I see no (fair) reason she could get full custody.

Originally Posted By: Grizz

W and I plan on trying 50/50 custody with a running 3 day rotation. I hope that this isn't too hard on the kids.

That's similar to my original proposal. Someone pointed out to me that it might get confusing for kids on where they have to go and who is getting them to and from school since it would change weekly. They told me, and it makes sense, that the 5-5-2 is pretty constant for the school week (I get every M, T, W gets every W, TH, and we alternate F, S, S). Going those 5 days will be very difficult for me though, good thing I coach their teams...sorry parents, practices are now on W and TH's

Originally Posted By: Spartan

That's similar to my original proposal. Someone pointed out to me that it might get confusing for kids on where they have to go and who is getting them to and from school since it would change weekly. They told me, and it makes sense, that the 5-5-2 is pretty constant for the school week (I get every M, T, W gets every W, TH, and we alternate F, S, S). Going those 5 days will be very difficult for me though, good thing I coach their teams...sorry parents, practices are now on W and TH's

I have a 5-2-2-5 schedule and it has been working fairly well for our kids. I had a lot of anxiety about not seeing them for 5 straight days but that has yet to be the case.

Its funny about the coaching because I coach as well and made my practice days on her nights so I could see them more.

I also volunteer at their school and they have games and other things on the weekend so I typically see them almost every day.

Spartan can you explain on the Fri-Sat-Sun rotation works.

Originally Posted By: PowerOfNow

Spartan can you explain on the Fri-Sat-Sun rotation works.

Either W or I get them alternating weekends. The proposed schedule would look like.

Me: M, T
W: W,TH
Me: F, S,S,M,T
W: W,TH,F,S,S
Me: M,T
W: W,TH
.........

Man, looking at 5 days in a row just stresses me out.

Originally Posted By: Grizz

Man, looking at 5 days in a row just stresses me out.

I was completely stressed out about this and I guess it depends on each situation. Hopefully your stbx will realize what is best for the kids is having each parent in their lives as much as possible.

Pick one night out of the 5 w/o them and ask your stbx if she minds if you take them out for dinner or ice cream. Hopefully she will cooperate and if not now maybe in the future when things settle down.

My stbx lives .25 mile away which can be good and bad. I will have to drop things off that they forgot or need and vice versa so that gives me opportunities to see them even if only just for a few minutes.

We also cover for each other if our kids have different things going on or if we have work conflicts.

We also every now and then split them up for a day so we each can have some 1 on 1 time with our younger two.

As I'm writing this I feel that we must be doing a good job all things considered but I have many other emotions cycling when it comes to her and the transitions are definitly not always easy.

I usually don�t discuss my W on here anymore because I don�t see much value in it since she�s gone batshit crazy and it�s all about me any way

. Today I�m going to change that up a bit and maybe start a little discussion. I saw something similar posted somewhere else so figured it was a sign to post here. I also like writing books on Friday mornings so here goes�

Last night my W tried to start some small talk which I quickly and politely got out of and started watching the Braves/ Giants game. I quickly zoned out (how could you not watching the Braves) and I started thinking about life, LL�s, and that type of stuff. Thinking wasn�t something that ever got in my way before but something that keeps happening as of late

.

My thoughts eventually revolved around why in the world would someone who says they want out not leave and instead even try to initiate discussions with the person they want to be away from? She�s been perfectly content the last several months living together as friends and co-parents and we continued to do family things together and have fun. Truth is if you zone away from my emotional hell I've felt not much day to day had changed in our lives besides the fact that she cut me off even though she�s still sleeping in the same bed� She doesn�t stay out all hours, didn�t change her wardrobe or hair, her schedule is pretty constant, nothing much besides a few things. While I don�t believe much of what she says anymore for discussions sake let�s pretend she believes it. She�s told me she wants out of M and filed D paperwork 7 months ago, has said she doesn�t love me several times (her latest actual line was �I�m completely indifferent towards you�), she blames me for everything that�s went wrong with her life, and she holds on to the old anger/ bitterness like an addict holds on to their last drug.

Is it money concerns? Nope. Early on I told her that if she really wanted out we could set up a separation agreement and she could leave free and clear. I�d pay all the current bills and she could use all her money on a new place and new life. She asked me why and I told her I wanted her to be happy and if this is what she felt she wanted then I didn�t want money concerns getting in the way of her finding herself.

Is it kids? I don�t think so. Early on we were at 50/50 custody and things seemed fine. Custody discussions started taking a turn about the time I started talking about leaving. She knows I won�t move out until the custody deal is agreed to and signed. It seems like we�re drifting further and further away from the 50/50 with each discussion.

I believe it is fear that keeps her here. Fear of being alone, fear regarding kids, fear of not having me there to pick up the pieces, fear of her getting sick again, fear of having to do everything (many things for first time in her life), fear of failing, and maybe fear that she has no one to blame if things don�t go right.

I also wonder if maybe (doubt it) she�s waiting and hoping for something to change within her. She�s mentioned several times that she�s seen the changes in me but she still thinks the old me is in there. It�s frustrating to hear that but I understand she doesn�t trust it yet because we�re not that long into this and I have had a couple backslides during these last 7 months. She�s also told me she won�t change her mind until she feels something different inside her which I�m fine with. Why else would I want her to change her mind?

I also know from one of her friends (completely unsolicited) that W feels a lot of shame and guilt for her part in our past. She�s not the type of person that asks for forgiveness or admits to being wrong so this is a big hurdle for us. I feel I�ve forgiven the things I know about the best I know how to and haven�t brought them up or referenced any of it in a long time. We also started going to church together a few years ago and I know from previous talks she struggles with some of the topics and wonders why her believes aren�t always aligned. In fact in our last talk before mediation, that I thought was going ok, she all of a sudden got upset and yelled at me saying �I guess I�m just not a good Christian�. Had nothing to do with what we were discussing at the time, maybe she was having a different convo in her head??? I just sat there looking at her with I�m sure a WTF look on my face because it caught me so off guard, she looked at me, looked embarrassed, and left.

Well there�s my Friday book. Not planning to change anything with my current direction. Going to continue to stay dim to protect myself, work on me, GAL and try new things, and try to implement the proposed 5-5-2 schedule the best I can. I�m just journaling my thoughts and not necessarily looking for suggestions to change. Figured maybe get some theories on why someone would stay with someone that�s obviously as bad as the LBS that may have finally seen the light�

Seriously dude....you've read my sitch right?! Lol

Yes, the WAS hanging around can make you feel it's because they are still attached to you and secretly want things to work out, but as you guessed it's often just fear and procrastination that keep them in place.

The only way "those feelings inside her" are going to change is if she sees you as a prize to be won, because you are:

-- attractive
-- self-confident
-- happy and fun
-- not available to her

And maybe, when it is right for you, you look at separation as an option? Although, your kids are pretty young yet and it is hard on them at any age. I have t say, you all who have in house "separations" have strength that I do not know I could muster..
Ruby

Originally Posted By: Accuray

The only way "those feelings inside her" are going to change is if she sees you as a prize to be won, because you are:

-- attractive
-- self-confident
-- happy and fun
-- not available to her

Well that doesn't bode well for me

Attractive: Wife doesn't drink anymore due to illness so next...
Self-confident: I used to fake it, now I'm feeling pretty good about most things and it's showing
Happy and fun: Check, now we're in my wheelhouse
Not available to her: Sigh, really blow at this one but starting to work on it

I was going to say, isn't that list pretty much what we've been talking about for the last week? The beginning is the hardest...just keep going.

And while you may not be attractive, maybe your self-confidence and happiness will be enough to override that

Hey Spartan, not really a book, a novelette maybe? LOL!

My xh had a MLC and is still in the tunnel, I think. Though peeking out a bit lately.

Anyway, sometimes, he and I have discussions about stuff.

Now, there are those on here who know of my xh and his antics and our conversations.

And sometimes they sound like something out of, "One flew over the cuckoo's Nest". Trust me on that one.

But he and I did have a conversation once about why he stayed.

Warning: Do not do this. We have a unique way of talking.

Anyway, I asked him, "Why would you announce that you no longer wanted to be married, that you were unhappy and wanted out and then stay in our home for a year? I mean, I dont get it."

He said, "I needed to say those words. I meant them. But following through on those words was very difficult. It meant untangling from a relationship of half my lifetime."

I said, "Im thinking I wouldnt say those words unless I was leaving. But maybe that's just me."

Ok, now, here comes the part where the cuckoo was flying around the clock again.

He then says, "Look, uR, I hear what you are saying. I guess it was crazy to you that i would say those words and stay. But you have to understand, I was unhappy and when you are unhappy you say things without thinking."

Huh? Ok, enough said.

^^ I think that some people have to say things to make them real.^^

I hear you, Kate. But it didnt really make them real. Real would have included him actually leaving.

I agree in his mind, it made it real in once sense. But, not really in another.

kate's_place

The one thing I am grateful for after BD is that she backslid on me leaving ASAP. I know, I know...detach. But I am still grappling with the whole idea of walking away completely.

At least with me in the house...she can see the changes. Since apparently the deal breaker was me using chewing tobacco. I asked her how the hell am I going to prove I stopped? Drinking was easy. If I drank...everyone knew it. Drunk is easily spotted. But the dip is a lot harder.

It is hard...but I do leave her be, and have stopped going into the bedroom, and/or following her around. I dont even ask where she has been when she comes home late...even though 2 minutes before she walks through the door I am an emotional wreck wondering where she is.

I agree, S, that fear is part of their reason. Confusion, crisis, and depression are some of the others.

Whatever the reason, your path remains the same, right?

Originally Posted By: uRworthy

I hear you, Kate. But it didnt really make them real. Real would have included him actually leaving.

I agree in his mind, it made it real in once sense. But, not really in another.

I so understand this...like trying it on and seeing what it looks like

Wow Spartan when I just read this it was a complete reflection of my sitch. My W has become distant lately because of supposebly something I said 8 weeks ago that gave her emotional trigger of our past relationship. 4 solid months and I am back to ground zero with her. Same thing. Bat s hi t crazy. My W also does not apologize and blames me for everything.

Not being readily available is tough while living under the same roof. I have increased GAL and it does help.

Accuray how do you suggest become less available while living under same roof with 2 young kids.

GAL only?

As I said, I have nothing but admiration for you all living together. The space for H and I had was invaluable and still is. He wants to see me and talk with me, but is still able to grow on his own. I do not think our marriage would have survived ( technically speaking) if he stayed.

Yeah staying in the same house is very difficult at times. After kids go to sleep there's rarely a word spoken anymore which is just not who I am but who I have to be right now...

Journaling:

So after mediation last week I've really tried to go as dim as possible to help me detach and not get sucked back into the hurt roller coaster. (I bought a ticket yesterday for one more ride but more on that later...) Also because nothing I say makes a bit of difference anyway and I'm not strong enough to be 'just friends' and not allow myself to get hurt. Truth be told I have no interest in being just friends and have been very clear on that with her.

I've also tried to implement the 5-5-2 parenting schedule as much as possible meaning I would be less available/ scarce on days that would normally be hers so she'd get a feel of what real life will be like. It's been a little harder then I thought mainly due to W not being responsible (i.e. last Thurs she was supposed to pick up D7 but texted me saying she couldn't get D7 from swimming. I had to leave what I was doing to pick her up since she was 'still at work' which was almost an hour away and D7 was supposed to be picked up in 30 min...). No way I could just leave her there

Monday I was playing with kids and D7 grabbed W's phone to look at photos. Later W was helping S5 shower and her phone was in bathroom. D7 snuck it out to "put a funny picture on the phone for mom". She brought phone to me and asked if she could change screens. Without thinking I looked at it and BAM!!! She was in the middle of texting OM. It gets better, not just most recent OM but OM from over 8 years ago that almost caused us to D back then. It's a phone number that will always be ingrained in my head. I didn't read it and just hit menu and let D7 take her photo. I haven't spoken a single word to W since (she texted twice yesterday and called once and lingered after talking with kids, I just hung up phone).

I won't lie, yesterday was a very rough day for me. My head was spinning most the day. Thoughts of:
Has it been going on the entire time?
Has my whole life/ family been covered in lies?
Looking at photos on the wall with W and they're all tattoo'd black (Black was one of favorite Pearl Jam songs before BD but now has so much more meaning...).

I so wanted to confront her but I was convinced by a good friend that there is no point. The only consistent thing she's done for years, not just since BD, is to not give a crap about me, our M, our family, or anything I have to say. If I start that conversation the only outcome will be more hurt. I also was reminded by a few people that I'm allowing myself to feel this hurt and was "gently"

reminded that I needed to get the F off the roller coaster. The ONLY person that controls my emotions is me and while I don't have to like them they don't have to control my day(s). Easier said then done some days but I got the message.

After few talks yesterday and some timely texts during the evening I have my head back on straight and feel normal again. Last night I looked at photos with kids and remembered those good memories. No matter what W has done or is doing I know who I am, who I was, and she can't take that from me. As people say on here all the time, we find things out when we need to and when we're ready. While the truth can hurt it was a reminder that I needed for what reality is, not what I want it to be. It's just one more step in helping me detach from her and move on with my life.

Today I plan to finally map out, in writing, what my goals are for moving on. Feel I need this plan to reduce some of the fear of life without W that I've been secretly holding on to in the back of my head.

Dang, I really need an editor. I type fast and tends to be these frickin' books every time...

Well, that was crappy but her actions are based on her crap, not you.

I'm glad you got some timely advice.

Spartan,

When we are in this situation, our minds will always fill in the worst possible interpretation of what we learn, as often we only get a little bit of info and write a book around it in our heads.

While it is possible that W has been in contact with old OM for the last 8 years, it's more likely that she is scared facing legal separation and seeking to line up "insurance" that people will be there to comfort her when she needs it. Therefore, it's likely that she's using this guy to be her backburner insurance plan versus truly caring for him right now.

The point is, don't torture yourself with could have beens. If she was unfaithful for 8 years you would have sensed it and known it in your heart at the time.

Acc

Originally Posted By: Spartan

Today I plan to finally map out, in writing, what my goals are for moving on. Feel I need this plan to reduce some of the fear of life without W that I've been secretly holding on to in the back of my head.

I think that's a good plan, but I hope you aren't thinking of sharing that...it's for you and you alone. It will help bring a calmness to the sitch and maybe some acceptance (at least it did for me).

Originally Posted By: Spartan

As people say on here all the time, we find things out when we need to and when we're ready.

Certainly seemed like it in my sitch. I would have been destroyed had I found out about the PA earlier. As it turned out, I was exactly where I needed to be when I found out, and was able to move forward without a lot of negativity. I felt like I had become "a man only a fool would leave" and everything just kinda fell into place.

That said, I do remember the night I found out...and it was awful. So I'm sorry you had to go thru that, and it's even worse that it's an old wound getting reopened. Hang tough buddy...we're here for you.

Originally Posted By: PowerOfNow

Accuray how do you suggest become less available while living under same roof with 2 young kids.

GAL only?

PowerOfNow, this isn't a blanket suggestion or tactic. What I'm recommending is that if your spouse is actively engaged in an affair, that you not be their security blanket or their fallback plan. If you're contributing lots of emotional support, they are getting all the benefits of being a spouse without any of the contribution, and that is not okay.

IF your spouse is engaged in an affair, you have to wait it out (assuming you want to), and you can have no expectations that anything you do to DB will have a short-term impact on your spouse. While they are engaged with OP, you are in a holding pattern at best.

That's why I'm saying your best course of action is to pull back emotionally. How do you do that when you're living at home with 2 small children?

1) Be the best father you can be. Demonstrate your emotional capacity for being a good spouse by being a good parent. This is attractive.

2) Be mysterious. Come and go without explaining yourself (assuming the kids are covered). Change up your wardrobe, haircut, etc. Be unpredictable in a good way.

3) If your spouse engages you, be friendly, be courteous, try to end the conversation first. Act-as-if.

What does this look like? Limit the follow-on questions that you ask. Validate, tell them you're sorry they feel that way, move on. Don't offer suggestions, don't offer fixes, don't get sucked into their drama.

Your spouse says "I'm so confused and sad, I don't know if I'm doing the right thing!" You can either get sucked into an R discussion, or you can say "I'm sorry you feel that way, that must be a challenging thing to deal with. I'm going to go play softball with some friends, I'll be home by 8:00. I hope you feel better!"

I would completely NOT recommend this if OP is gone. At that point you may want to consider re-engaging and being more supportive. However, with a WAS, you need to rekindle some attraction.

You're generally not going to be attracted to someone who follows you around like a puppy and seems to get too wrapped up in your emotional state. You're going to be attracted to someone who is self-confident, a bit mysterious, fun, funny, who has information they're not telling you, and who is with you because they WANT to be, not because they need you to scratch all their emotional itches.

Accuray

Originally Posted By: Accuray

While it is possible that W has been in contact with old OM for the last 8 years, it's more likely that she is scared facing legal separation and seeking to line up "insurance" that people will be there to comfort her when she needs it. Therefore, it's likely that she's using this guy to be her backburner insurance plan versus truly caring for him right now.

Might be right with that, who knows. Whatever her reasoning is it doesn't change my current path. Well I might not help D7 put a funny photo on phone next time...

The frustrating part for many of us here is she didn't need the insurance policy OM, she had someone that loves her unconditionally, was working his a$$ off to become a better person, and that person just so happened to be the father of her kids. We play the hand we're dealt so enough of the why's and poor me BS.

Originally Posted By: Breakdown

I think that's a good plan, but I hope you aren't thinking of sharing that...it's for you and you alone. It will help bring a calmness to the sitch and maybe some acceptance (at least it did for me).

Yeah, it's for my eyes only. Several months ago I started doing a few budgets based on a couple different payment scenarios to figure out what type of house I could afford. I really want a house for my kids (and me). I stopped thinking about that stuff though because I felt like I was planning for failure...failure to save the M and family. Now I feel like I'm planning for success, a happy life with my new reality.

Originally Posted By: Spartan

The frustrating part for many of us here is she didn't need the insurance policy OM, she had someone that loves her unconditionally, was working his a$$ off to become a better person, and that person just so happened to be the father of her kids. We play the hand we're dealt so enough of the why's and poor me BS.

Blah, blah, blah....

Yea, and the Titanic had life rafts too..

You really doing this for her ??

Or you ??

You know the answer to that. I thought by adding that last line one of you wouldn't blast me for my "poor me" whining. Have to admit I'd have been a little disappointed though if you hadn't.

Spartan sorry you discovered that info. I have complete empathy for you. When my W withdraws she starts to txt OM (life long friend who tried sleeping with my W while we were separated). It drives me crazy and we ever start to piece again I need to address this relationship without fear.

Sounds like your detaching. Keep going on going on

Originally Posted By: Spartan

You know the answer to that. I thought by adding that last line one of you wouldn't blast me for my "poor me" whining. Have to admit I'd have been a little disappointed though if you hadn't.

S, you're kidding right? Let me introduce you to Mach. LOL!

Come at me Mach - I'm ready -

Originally Posted By: Spartan

The frustrating part for many of us here is she didn't need the insurance policy OM, she had someone that loves her unconditionally, was working his a$$ off to become a better person, and that person just so happened to be the father of her kids. We play the hand we're dealt so enough of the why's and poor me BS.

Ah...I remember having that pity party myself. Good times...

And I think I remember a similar response from Mach1 lol

Originally Posted By: Spartan

The frustrating part for many of us here is she didn't need the insurance policy OM, she had someone that loves her unconditionally, was working his a$$ off to become a better person, and that person just so happened to be the father of her kids.

The problem that most people have is that they point this out to the WAS over and over again.

If you ever do that I will hunt you down with my crossbow.

I won't be pointing anything out to her for many reasons:
If she doesn't see it in my actions then she's blind
She never listens to anything I say anyway
She's on her own journey and it's best I stay clear because it's a path I have no interest being on
And most importantly I have more important things to do with my time...

Like talk crossbows. I broke my arm on a four wheeler last summer so bought a crossbow because I couldn't shoot my bow. I was so hesitant and even considered taking year off. I ended up with a Stryker 350. That thing is so nice and accurate. I may never shoot my bow again.

Time for another Friday morning novel by Spartan...

Before the tough stuff I figured I'd post some good. GALing this week has been good. My T-ball team had first game and they played great and looked in mid-season form, we got 11 outs compared to other teams zero (don't keep actual score). S5 was given game ball by other coaches, he was so happy and I made sure he knew I was proud of him. I told him while I was happy about how well he played I was most proud of him for his sportsmanship; he told a kid on the other team nice hit once and helped a kid up that fell down next to him. Kids and I had a lot of fun this week outside since weather is finally warming up. I golfed last night in league and had a blast with friends. Tonight kids and I are going roller skating then sitting around first camp fire of the year. Have plans for rest of weekend also so that side of things is looking up. All in all I'm doing really good except for when I'm around W...

And now the tougher stuff... I wasn't going to post this here but figure might as well post my stupid stuff as well, maybe someone will learn from my mistakes. Living in same house is tough and getting to breaking point happens more then I like to admit. Many times I find an outlet for it but sometimes it still comes out.

So dim but polite hasn't been the easiest thing for me for several reasons. I've been doing it but it's been hard on me. I'm not a quiet person so no fun not being the 'real' me. The bigger issue is my W has been really struggling this last week trying to get everything done for this weekends charity event. She looks so stressed and tired and I hate seeing her like that. I think her illness is flaring up also because I've seen pain killers back on the counter. She won't ask me for help which is frustrating the heck out of me because I made it clear a while ago I'd help if she asks.

Last night feeling bad for her I bit the bullet and asked if I could help and she barely responded with a mumbled no so I grabbed the Kindle and started reading. Before bed I said good night with no response. This AM we saw each other before work and she looked at me so I said good morning and no response again. My original plan was to not help as much this week so she'd get a taste of reality, I just didn't realize how hard the reality of watching her implode would be on me so I was trying to be nice. My frustration came out a little this morning...

After the good morning blow off I saw her again downstairs and told her she didn't have to do it all alone and I wanted to help. Told her this should be fun for her, not stressful. She didn't respond. I then said you don't even respond to me and you treat strangers better then this. No response again and she just stared, I finally asked her if she even knows why she hates me so much. She looked down but didn't say anything. I just said it didn't have to be like this and left for work.

I wish I could have kept my mouth shut because that was another interaction that didn't do any good at all. I'm sure it won't change a thing and I likely just tossed some unneeded guilt/ shame at her and while she may have been sad then she will be pissed at me later. My friends have already delivered the 2x4 reminders of this earlier today. I'm just really struggling with watching her go through this process knowing it's only going to get harder for her and there isn't a damn thing I can do.

For whatever reason I have a lot of guilt and anger for not being able to help her. The one thing I can't seem to drop yet is my feeling of husband responsibility to my W to help her when she needs it. Crazy because she can't be more clear that she doesn't want my help. I know it's all on me to let her go and get better to STFU. I was reminded that she chose this path so I HAVE to respect her choices. Still doesn't make it easy.

Spartan I am sorry sorry. My W consistently goes to be without saying goodnight and leaves without saying goodbye. It is tough. I also get the silent treatment (which is a form of control). It is very very hard detaching under same roof. Nearly impossible. I just try to understand it is on them. Swing by my piecing post and see what Bond wrote

I think you might need to re-read the LRT section again. I know you care for her...but respecting her choices and letting her go are part of that. Sounds like you are just getting impatient, and having some trouble detaching.

At different times in my sitch, certain mindsets worked well for me, so maybe consider something like that. Roommates, friends who co-parent, etc. Find something that works for you, something that allows you to be you, without sucking up all the negativity she's spewing.

Grats on the t-ball! I have a 5yo so I understand how impressive that is!

Originally Posted By: Spartan

For whatever reason I have a lot of guilt and anger for not being able to help her. The one thing I can't seem to drop yet is my feeling of husband responsibility to my W to help her when she needs it. Crazy because she can't be more clear that she doesn't want my help. I know it's all on me to let her go and get better to STFU. I was reminded that she chose this path so I HAVE to respect her choices. Still doesn't make it easy.

It ISN'T easy, and much more resembles how a parent teaches a child, but that's really the role you are taking here. She has to figure things out for herself, and you can help and guide only in certain ways that she allows. Anything more will be seen as pressuring and pushing her towards more independence (like a teenager). You have to figure out the careful balance of how you can guide without creating any pressure, and most of it is her seeing change in you.

I know you know this, but thought you might like to read the reminder.

Here's an example from me that has happened over the last week or so. We had a big plumbing problem. Concurrently (and unrelated), she and the kids backed up three of the four toilets in the house. (I don't know what the deal with that is, but I'm not going to think about it too much as, for some reason, they clog toilets far too often. I don't know if they're overusing toilet paper or what in the heck is coming out of their bodies, but I've never clogged one once over there.) ANYWAY, the next time I was at the house, I unclogged the two of the three toilets that my daughters use, and left the master bath toilet alone. That's her problem.

Previously, I would have just fixed it because...well, just because. That's what I do to take care of my girls. But if she doesn't want to be one of my girls, then I'm not just going to swoop in and fix things without being asked. It's been a little while and I'm not sure how she put up with it (guessing/hoping it was just #...never mind), but this morning she actually asked, "will you fix my toilet, please?"

This may not seem like a big deal, but for us, who have a 13 year history, I think it kinda is. I'm prone to fix things. You say your back is hurting? You don't have to ask, I'll just rub it. One of the lights is out in the house? Changed out before you even get a chance to mention it. We're out of milk you say? Look again...vuala!

I think she may be getting the message that I'm not going to take care of her like I used to (secretly: how I WANT to). And she may be entirely fine with that, but I think it's something...and that it's a "something" the WAW needs to experience as part of this process.

And if I think that it's something she really "needs," then it makes it easier to do it. But you're spot on: it is very difficult.

-PM

Spartan google :

does perimenapause cause divorce

read the article on voices.yahoo

it all makes sense

Originally Posted By: Breakdown

I think you might need to re-read the LRT section again.

And POOF !!!

Here is (what I think) the best description of it....

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...55814#Post55814

That is a superb post Mach!

Originally Posted By: Breakdown

That is a superb post Mach!

I tried to read everything Jamesjohn posted...

Thanks BD...

M1 it can be challenging doing the LRT while living under the same roof with young children hey

Originally Posted By: PowerOfNow

M1 it can be challenging doing the LRT while living under the same roof with young children hey

Can be...

Not impossible....

...Hey

Thanks Mach. I like the way he worded that and seems to 'feel' better that way. I sometimes get hung up on words and how they are used and Last Resort had a negative connotation that I struggled with.

This entire thing is challenging so what's another good challenge

Fact is I have to do something different because what I've been doing (or at least pretending to do at times) hasn't been working for me.

I just need to get through Sunday and then will go all in with this. Not going to pretend what will happen at race, I'm just going to be me and let those chips fall where they fall. Only thing I know for sure is W will get to the finish of it, I feel it's what I really need to do to finish that commitment...

Have a good race man....stay safe and have fun! If I was closer, I'd have ice and beer waiting at the finish line

I would've just brought the scotch....but that's me.

Originally Posted By: kate's_place

I would've just brought the scotch....but that's me.

You runners...

Spartan, good luck on Sunday. Will be sending you my positive energy!