So here's my last thread. It's bound to get locked soon at over 150 posts. Plus, I wanted a happy title to look at...
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2319363#Post2319363Thanks, everyone for your support, advice and willingness to read my revenge fantasy's!! Plus for putting up with my atrocious spelling and typos. I do hate that there is no edit button. I am a pregnant mother of 2 kids under 3...I have no time to proof read.
I really can't express enough my gratitude for reading DR and finding these boards. It has made all the difference in my life!! I gain strength from your strength. I gain wisdom from your sharing. I get a safe place to vent. We have a shared experience.
Ahhh, here we go. Trudging the road of happy destiny... (Bill W. Dang it, he was right)
Hi Tallula...
You must be REALLY strong to go through this with 2 kids that age AND being pregnant! You are definitely going on my prayer list!
Brian
Hi, Tallula,
I like your new thread title! It sounds more upbeat! And, you sound stronger, too.
Hope you are hanging in there--it sure sounds like it!
Prayers are always appreciated!!!
GM- omg! 6 months old, first time mom. God love you! I can't even imagine what I will do if H ends up with this OW. But, I couldn't imagine feeling this ok 3 months ago, so one day at a time, right?
GTO- everytime I see my thread title, I can't help but sing the song. I mean, how can the muppets not make you laugh, smile, and feel better!!
Right now I just wish I had someone who could A. Bring me a DQ blizzard B. watch my kids do I could get one. C. Tell me way Smash's 2nd season is kinda sucking
how can the muppets not make you laugh, smile, and feel better!!
^^^^^Yes!
Right now I just wish I had someone who could A. Bring me a DQ blizzard B. watch my kids do I could get one. C. Tell me way Smash's 2nd season is kinda sucking
^^^^^And yes again!
Love the attitude and the new thread!
Prayers are always appreciated!!!
GM- omg! 6 months old, first time mom. God love you! I can't even imagine what I will do if H ends up with this OW. But, I couldn't imagine feeling this ok 3 months ago, so one day at a time, right?
You may not be able to imagine it, but I promise you will be more then OK if it does happen. My ex married her OM. They are very happy. I am happy too as without going through this, I would never had made the changes I did and would not be happy myself!
Right now I just wish I had someone who could A. Bring me a DQ blizzard B. watch my kids do I could get one. C. Tell me way Smash's 2nd season is kinda sucking
Where are you? I can grab a DQ blizzard but don't know if it would melt before I got it to you...
I don't understand Smash this season either...It's like they left out half a season to explain what is going on. I can only assume that if the show makes it to Broadway, there really wouldnt be much of a story left to tell. But yeah, it does suck right now! At least The Following is starting to get good!
Brian
Where are you? I can grab a DQ blizzard but don't know if it would melt before I got it to you...
I don't understand Smash this season either...It's like they left out half a season to explain what is going on. I can only assume that if the show makes it to Broadway, there really wouldnt be much of a story left to tell. But yeah, it does suck right now! At least The Following is starting to get good!
Brian
Midwest.
Oooooh, The Following is getting so good. When he pulled up to the house and all those people walked out...oh man!!!
Having a weird day. Not freaking out or anything, just feeling like texting H. This is the longest we have gone without texting. But, it's awesome that it's just a mild urge. Not overwhelming, and I know I'm not going to. This is really the first time I have truely pulled back. It's a wee bit scary. But I remind myself that not only do I need it and want it, but let's try something different with H. Not more of the same. And let's face it...I'm not losing anything. I did not sign up for an open M!!
Going to the gym after work (working an extra day this week).
Need to get out for a few runs this week, as I'm running a St Patty's day Race next week.
Hi Tallula - I just stopped by to see how you were - and you sound fantastic!
In the last thread, when you were discussing H coming on to you and then he turned it around, I just about screamed What the.. out loud here at my desk. Kudos for how you handled it.
Keep up the great attitude and take care of yourself
Hi Tallula - I just stopped by to see how you were - and you sound fantastic!
In the last thread, when you were discussing H coming on to you and then he turned it around, I just about screamed What the.. out loud here at my desk. Kudos for how you handled it.
Keep up the great attitude and take care of yourself
Yeah, that's pretty much where he is at right now. It all has to be "his" decision. He even talks about moving out like it was his idea. He would have stayed in the house forever if I hadn't set my boundary.
I see this more clearly now than ever, that he wants/thinks I will always be here, waiting for him to decide. He knows I have all the information now. I know he is still in contact with OW, but he tries to have sex with me, says he misses me, etc. Pulling away is the best thing for him to see that I'm not always going to be here waiting. Because, frankly, today I really don't see me being able to move on from this with him. I am not shutting the door completely, but I deserve much better than this. Time will tell if he wants to work at being faithful. Today, he doesn't. So, today, I'm not an option.
Still feeling a bit blah today. Having some OW thoughts. Panicky. I know its normal, but I just can't wait for the day these thoughts don't invade my POM. I can push them out much faster than I use to, so there is a plus.
Midwest.
Oooooh, The Following is getting so good. When he pulled up to the house and all those people walked out...oh man!!!
Having a weird day. Not freaking out or anything, just feeling like texting H. This is the longest we have gone without texting. But, it's awesome that it's just a mild urge. Not overwhelming, and I know I'm not going to. This is really the first time I have truely pulled back. It's a wee bit scary. But I remind myself that not only do I need it and want it, but let's try something different with H. Not more of the same. And let's face it...I'm not losing anything. I did not sign up for an open M!!
Going to the gym after work (working an extra day this week).
Need to get out for a few runs this week, as I'm running a St Patty's day Race next week.
Yeah, they would melt as I am in Alabama! Maybe I can drive REALLY fast!
I just read your entire sitch too...So you are going to get some of my blunt comments!
Your husband is a serial cheater. You don't need that in your life. He needs to fix ALL of himself before you should even consider being together again. He is very selfish and childish. The only way he is going to get better is if he WANTS to. He will also need to figure out why he cheats...Without knowing that, he won't be able to stop.
You, on the other hand, are an even more amazing woman than I thought when I first commented in this thread. You deserve unconditional love for you, and ONLY you! You are learning the skills that will make sure your next relationship will give that to you...whether that be your husband, or the man you will find afterwards, you will be strong enough to not settle for anything less!
Brian
[quote=Brian in Hville
Yeah, they would melt as I am in Alabama! Maybe I can drive REALLY fast!
I just read your entire sitch too...So you are going to get some of my blunt comments!
Your husband is a serial cheater. You don't need that in your life. He needs to fix ALL of himself before you should even consider being together again. He is very selfish and childish. The only way he is going to get better is if he WANTS to. He will also need to figure out why he cheats...Without knowing that, he won't be able to stop.
You, on the other hand, are an even more amazing woman than I thought when I first commented in this thread. You deserve unconditional love for you, and ONLY you! You are learning the skills that will make sure your next relationship will give that to you...whether that be your husband, or the man you will find afterwards, you will be strong enough to not settle for anything less!
Brian [/quote]
Thank you for taking the time to read my sitch. And for the DQ offer... and for your very kind words. The rug was pulled out from under me and I'm just getting my sea legs back.
Yeah, each day I move so much closer to not even entertaining the idea of R with H. He would need to do a complete 180. He is in IC and wants to WANT to fix that which is broken in him. I just don't know that I'm willing to put myself through anymore. Its really only recently begun to sink in that this man has cheated on me our entire M. This past year, I saw a few signs. First time in our R that we were disconnected. I flat out asked him, he lied of course. But when I think about the years...there was NO CLUE!! Everyone is floored. H is a charmer. He is fun to be around, a very giving person. But maybe it was all a manipulation, leading this double life? So, how would I ever truly trust him?
I do deserve much, much better. I am human, with faults of course!! But, I'm am really great catch. It's hard! I've been with this man since I was 22. He was my best friend, my teammate, my partner. I refuse to believe it was a lie. I know that he does love me. But he is incapable of loving me like I deserve. Honestly, like anyone deserves. Even him. It is sad. I do have a window cracked. I can't legally D him until I have this baby, so one day at a time until August.
It is going to take work for me to keep detached. I love him. I just do. But, I love me more. I just need to show me that.
Ok...that was way to cheesy. Quick, someone make an inappropriate joke...
Sounds like you and yourself need to get a room!!!
LOL
HI, T,
This is all about saving yourself. And you DO have to love yourself more. It is not cheesy at all.
I agree w Brian--that you deserve much better. And when love is reciprocated on a level that matches that which with you give, you will recognize the immensity of it & the happiness that goes along with it.
Your H serial cheating does NOT take away from the good times and feelings you have/had for each other. HE will rewrite your history, but your version of it doesn't need to change. He has a problem and unless he recognizes it and delves into WHY of it he will never fully be free of the recycled pattern he is in. So, he will never be able to give himself to OW or anyone else until he works on himself.
I am also a midwest girl-born & raised, but now live on the east coast!
Woo to the Midwest!!! I get nervous about posting too much, less someone in my real world figures out its me. Let's just say, the Cards Rock! & gateway to the west
!!
Crap, now I want ted drews...
Ah, the midwest is a big place. DOn't worry. I have a friend who just moved to your neck of the woods.
I was from just north of you.
Now am a big Sox and Patriots fan!
Tallula you are such an inspiration to me and I am sure to many others too. I hope that in 2 months time I am singing muppets songs too...believe it or not even after one month I'm almost beginning to hum...
One thing that I did that helped me get some perspective with my situation was ask our MC (we also saw him as IC) his honest professional opinion as to how long it would take in therapy for my H to be able to have a healthy relationship. MC said that with regular counseling and a lot of work on his part it would take several years...maybe 6 or so...and keep in mind that H showed no remorse and was not even slightly interested in restoring our marriage...so it was a moot point with us. So I did the math and realized my S8 would be a teenager and the little guy would be 11. That is a pretty long time to be hanging on and in an unhappy relationship. Think of how happy I could be with someone else or alone in a fraction of that time I might be waiting for H.
The other thing I asked in a joint session with the same MC (I told H I was goign to ask and he agreed). was what we each needed to work on individually. MC rattled off a list of things for H...work on honesty, trustworthiness, emotionally connected to kids, accept all emotions from me and kids without shutting down, explore/resolve childhood traumas...
And then my list was like this: "You are amazing. I can't believe how well you are handling this and how clear-headed you are. Keep on doing what you're doing".
I am FAAAAAAARRRRR from perfect. And I think the MC was glossing over some things I really do need to work on (like running the show--I always overcompensate and do far too much in a relationship, enabling H to do far too little) But a little affirmation didn't hurt at all. Even though I was sad to hear H had so much to do.
My point is that though I don't know your H, he cleary has SO MUCH to work on, and it may very well take years for him to resolve his issues. Just think of how completely happy you could be in the time it takes for him to "catch up with you" emotionally. You can do so much better. Maybe your relationship's purpose was to give you 3 great kids and prepare you for the next relationship.
Hoping for a miracle...but so glad you are in a good place right now. Have a wonderful weekend!
Tallula I hope you eventually got your DQ order.
I understand loving him but needing to detach. I feel the same way. And once again I need to say that you have brought out something in me that seems to finally be seeing that 'light'.
I hope your pregnancy is going well. What a blessing to have to in all of this mess. You are a strong and beautiful woman, mother and wife. I hope you H can get through this and give you what you deserve. And if not, I am confident that you will find it.
I am loving your energy and your honesty.
Ugh, just add some more fun to my day.
My grandma passed away yesterday. Earlier today my mom said they don't want H at the funeral. H wants to be there. I want to throw up.
I spoke to my alanon sponcer and she said I should set the boundary with my mom that he is still my H and that he will be coming.
I'm the type that wants everyone to be happy & just pretend to get along. So, I'm going to have to tell my mom this & just let go of how everyone acts. I just want to care in a hole. I want to make up that we all have the flu and bail. But, I'm either going to start this life now, or continue to avoid uncomfortable situations.
Tallula,
I'm so sorry.
I really understand how awful this must be for you. My dad and stbx's are both more or less terminally ill and I've contemplated what might happen in regard to funerals...
I don't have any answers; it's just hard. I hope someone wise can pop on here with some good advice - just wanted to let you know that I understand.
I'd love to hear some advice!!
I know I need to state my boundaries. Only mY sister knows that he cheated in me more than once. I've kept much from them, but they are mad. I get it. They don't agree with some ways I'm handling this. I refuse to act bitter & angry towards my H. He is the father of my children & I want a good relationship with him for them. The momentary relief of treating him badly won't be worth a strained relationship. They don't think I should have him at the ultrasound, etc.
Im walking this how I am, and they will chose their path. It's really hard for me to "disappoint" people, but I do know today that this boundary is for me. They can judge me if they chose, I'm the one who has to live with my choices. I chose to tell them, so I have to deal.
I really hate being an adult. I've thought more about running away as an adult than when I was a kid...
So sorry about your grandma
I know exactly what you mean. In my opinion, if you want him there he should be there. Your family can be mad all they want, but in the end they have to understand that it is your decision, between you and your H.
And let's hope they don't judge you for this, but it will be hard, only because they care for you.
Hi Tallula,
Have I posted on your thread before? If not here is my advice...
When I was 8mos prego I discovered clues of the affair. 3 days after baby was born it was confirmed.
Do I regret including him in my pregnancy and childbirth? In the past I woulda said no. Let me explain why...
-I saw it as my daughter's history.
-I wanted him to be able to tell her about her birth as my dad did every birthday.
-I didn't believe it was my day but our (my daughter and myself) day. And I know she would want him involved. My dad did a lot of stupid things but I'm so grateful that he shared very special moments with me and my birth is one of them. His relationship with my mom is separate from my relationship with him.
-I thought it would help him WAKE up from all this. (didn't make a dent!) but this was me trying to control and that's very childish.
Now that I'm past all the emotions from discovering the affair, I'm clear headed and can say that I would not have had H involved in the pregnancy or the delivery. Why?
-I wanted to have a natural birth and couldn't focus on something other than what I was suspecting that he was doing.
-I would've wanted people in the room that were there to help me and not hurt me (of course not intentionally but I wanted to be in a healthy frame of mind)
-It would've helped me distance myself from the sitch and just focus on baby and me.
I don't rack my brain from all the shoulda's because in the end I believe I made the best decision given the circumstances. I was in a very very difficult sitch and I did my best!
You will too!
I refuse to act bitter & angry towards my H. He is the father of my children & I want a good relationship with him for them. The momentary relief of treating him badly won't be worth a strained relationship. They don't think I should have him at the ultrasound, etc.
Im walking this how I am, and they will chose their path. It's really hard for me to "disappoint" people, but I do know today that this boundary is for me.
Tallula,
I think that what you wrote ^^^^^ says it all. For me (and for many others here) the hardest part of this process has been to actually keep the road home paved and smooth. To act with empathy and kindness to our spouses in the face of deceit, lies, selfishness and abandonment. We struggle with being detached enough and loving enough to avoid the temptation of acting like a victim or being punitive, judgmental or vindictive, even when we think we are not doing so.
One of the things I have come to admire of you, despite of how tough and recent your situation is, is your ability to be so strong, to act kindly to your H and to really focus on what is in your best interest and that of your kids, despite how much you are hurting.
Yes, enforcing boundaries with those we love is tough, doing the right thing is tough but like you say, you are walking this HOW YOU ARE. In the end, the only person you need to answer to is the one staring back when you look in the mirror.
((((tallula))))
I'd love to hear some advice!!
I know I need to state my boundaries. Only mY sister knows that he cheated in me more than once. I've kept much from them, but they are mad. I get it. They don't agree with some ways I'm handling this. I refuse to act bitter & angry towards my H. He is the father of my children & I want a good relationship with him for them. The momentary relief of treating him badly won't be worth a strained relationship. They don't think I should have him at the ultrasound, etc.
Im walking this how I am, and they will chose their path. It's really hard for me to "disappoint" people, but I do know today that this boundary is for me. They can judge me if they chose, I'm the one who has to live with my choices. I chose to tell them, so I have to deal.
I really hate being an adult. I've thought more about running away as an adult than when I was a kid...
Sounds like you have a great way of talking with them about where you are. Be firm, yet loving say what you have to then walk around the corner and throw up. It gets a little easier each time you stand up for yourself.
I'm so sorry for your loss, make sure you take time for YOU to grieve the loss of your Grandmother, everyone else can figure themselves out and if they can't "OH WELL". Here is a redneck hug (((((Tallula)))))
Tally, I fear if you start practicing avoidance it will become a habit, but a couple things:
Deaths often make people contemplate their lives and their worths. You or H may feel particularly close during this time , but you have to chalk it up to what it is.
Can you do this, with H there? Remember,you are responsible for you. Not behaviour of H or mom etc. it's all you can control. If you feel H should be present, and he wants to go, by all means. Maybe explain to your mom that H was a huge part of this family for a long time. He will continue to be father of these children , your grandchildren, and continue to be a part of our lives regardless.
Just wanted to say, you know your values and you can uphold them. As you know so well, your control is limited to your attitudes and behavior.
Thanks guys! I so plan to tell my mom this. If I keep avoiding stuff, it's just going to get bigger & I'll tie myself in knots.
H is the one that wants to be there. I have no problem with it. Plus, we have decided not to make public our separation, so dealing with my grandmothers passing & fielding questions about where my H is would make me want to punch people.
Bottom line. He is here is in my life forever. We have children & he is a good dad. Do I want to scream at him? Yes. Have I, uh huh. Did it make me feel better? Not really. I still have to feel all my feelings. So living in anger and resentment will just prolong it.
I slept like crap last night. I'm in knots. We were all at my aunts last night looking through pictures. It was hard enough answering where H was at last night. But the truth was that he was cleaning out his grandmas apartment with his sisters, since she is in a nursing home now. So when I was leaving, my mom was like "call me tomorrow and we will talk." I have to be honest, I'm mad at her. I'm mad at myself for telling them. But what I'm really mad at, is that I have to set boundaries & let go of how others choose to act. Very hard for me & scary. But as my sponsor said,"you believe in making things look good in public. You get that from your mom. I doubt anyone will make a scene. But, it's out of your control. You keep allowing this and it's just going to get harder & harder each time."
This is one of my biggest problems. Trying to force a situation to be ok. Everyone happy. Everyone act "right". I will try to manipulate things. Beg H to act like this, my family to act like that. Not my job or in my control. Which, me no likey!
Off to church. H is coming over to spend time with the kids later. Friday night we all had dinner & went bowling. It was pretty great. I'm detached enough now, to not look at my kids & H and be sad we aren't a "happy" family. H also apologized for acting the way he did when I told him no when he put the moves on me. He said he understood completely why & thinks its a good thing. The only thing that happened that I need to talk to him about his S3. When we pulled up to H's apartment S3 got upset, started to cry & said "I miss you, come live back home with us!" H was upset, hasn't dealt with this yet. He grabbed S3's hand and told him how much he lived him & then said "I'll be home soon, buddy." Um...yeah. Can't say that! So tonight I think I need to tell him that I've just been reassuring him that daddy & I love him very much, hold him & talk him through it. That we shouldn't tell him that, since we don't know if that will happen.
I get to have a ton of fun conversations today. Yippee me!!!
Redneck hugs ((((tallula)))) be strong
Hay Tallula,
I hated when my son would say he wanted his dad to come home. Broke my heart. You're doing a great job reminding him that his actions don't change how you feels about him (Son).
My son said to me yesterday that basically Dad was a dorp and that S didn't understand any of his behaviour at all. LOL. I said basically we support the people we love and at the same time we get to learn from the mistakes we make and see how we would and would not like to live our own lives. That you may not agree with decisions, but you love them anyway.
Course S is almost17..
How did convo with mom go Tally? Sending you a little energy today (the good stuff)
I really hate being an adult. I've thought more about running away as an adult than when I was a kid...
Love this...was driving the other day without S in the car and thought about just keep on driving...just leave this life and find another would seem easy for a little while...but then there is reality.
Sometimes it seems like H has picked this path though. Something I need to work on to be able to deal with.
Good Advice from keep_going...it is hard to keep that smooth paved road back home, also hard to not make it seem that doing GAL is not to get them back...time I guess...this is a hard one for me too...
Set the boundaries that you need for the funeral, do what you think is right for you, supportive for you and that you are okay with when you look back at the day...good luck, sorry for your loss, and try to keep you head up...easier said then done.
My anxiety has been high lately too and trying to keep focused on my goals is hard too...but the need to do that is what will make the anxiety go down.
So, I spoke with my mom. She was upset, they didn't want him there. I said that he is still my H and father of my children and it was not ok with me. Then she launched into basically the crux of it all. They see me going out to dinner with the kids and he, letting him come to the ultra-sound as messed up. She thinks he should be punished for what he is doing. I said that she has no idea what I'm going through, and this is my way I chose to handle this.
Basically, what I got from this conversation is that my family can not be who I go to for support about this. If I'm crying upset one day, and then being nice to H, they are judging me and my choices. I don't need that. I believe that separating my H from his behavior is the only way that I can live sanely in this sitch. "Punishing" him, will only punish me. I can't hold on to hate and anger. I feel them and let them flow through me. I will not let his actions define me.
Well and hour later D2 started throwing up. So H had to stay home with her anyway. Ha!! But, it was great to state my boundaries to my mom. It was really, really hard. I come from a long line of co-dependants. (MY MOM!!) We care about appearances, we care about how everything looks to the outside world so much so that my mom lies constantly. "Just tell everyone he has the flu!" Let's just jump and dance around so that everyone is happy and no one gets hurt or upset. Well, I'm done with that. If this sitch ends up putting a distance between me and my family, that's not on me or my H. I told them what was going on. Their choices are theirs. It's not up to me to control this.
It's scary for me to take care of me. It's scary that people don't agree and are judging me on my choices. But, I know in my heart I'm doing the best I can and what is right for me. For the first time in my life, I am clear that I do what is best for me and my family. And that is just 4..soon to be 5 of us.
I miss my grandma. But later that day we found out...we are having a BOY!!!! Woo hoo!! H and the kids came. S3 is so excited, D2 has no clue what is going on. Ha.
H seems (won't hold my breath until it lasts a few weeks) to see how screwed up he is. He has mentioned it many times to me, as we have been around each other more than usual. He came over to help with D2 being sick and was over all day yesterday. It's not that I see a future for us, not that I completely don't either. It's that I do just want him to find some happiness. He said "I am so sick, so messed up. I think I'll never really be happy. And I'm just a jerk (edit)." It truly isn't said in a "poor me" way. I listened each time, validated, and one time said jokingly "Well, it will be ok. 10 minutes from now it will be all my fault again..." He cracked up and said "Man, I really am lucky to have you in my life. And because you are like this again, I know when I'm blaming you, that I'm full of it. This has nothing to do with you. All me."
Lastly, I was raised Catholic. Like, went to Catholic school 18 years, church 6 days a week until I was 14, catholic. I started going to a non-denominational church a month ago that my AA/alanon sponcer and some of my alanon friends go to. I really feel like I found a spiritual home. It's scary, because while I love the traditions and familarity of the catholicism, this feels right. It's scary, because of my family, out of my comfort zone...just everything. But, I'm going to continue this path of doing what I feel is best for me. One foot infront of the other...
I come from a long line of co-dependants. (MY MOM!!) We care about appearances, we care about how everything looks to the outside world so much so that my mom lies constantly. "Just tell everyone he has the flu!" Let's just jump and dance around so that everyone is happy and no one gets hurt or upset. Well, I'm done with that. If this sitch ends up putting a distance between me and my family, that's not on me or my H. I told them what was going on. Their choices are theirs. It's not up to me to control this.
I feel ya, girl! And kudos to you for protecting yourself in what I know is such a tough place to be.
My mom's been dead for 3 years and I still have to say no to her voice far too often.
But it's getting better.
Tallula I think you doing what is best for you is the best path to take. You continue to inspire me with your strength and character and clarity of mind.
OMG!! OW's husband/ex husband just FB friend requested me. I about fell out of my chair when I realized who he was. I was like "who is? Who is...holy (insert many many curse words)
So, I declined the request & sent a simple message that I didn't think it was a good idea, but wished him luck in life. He sent back that I was right. He just thought since they are still FB friends, that it would be funny to [censored] with them when they saw we were friends.
Um...nope. But now I'm glad I get to go to sleep thinking of that dumb (multiple curse words)
Yeah. I need to really work through my feelings on her. She is just a sick selfish person. I need to view her in the same way I see my H.
Blarg!
OMG... Somethings are just unbelievable - lol...
You did the right thing and took the high road. Good for you!
I understand the challenges of working through your feelings re. OW. No advice here, just support, understanding and hugs.
(((((Tallula))))))
Well, he had messaged a bit more. And now...I'm spinning. He spoke of his guilt of knowing and not telling me and how he had seen me walk out of a meeting and called OW and how my H and she were freaked out he would tell me.
I'm not going to tell H that he contacted me. It would just do nothing but bad things. Plus, it's just something he and OW can bond over. I know he is "trying" not to contact her, so this would be an excuse. And then I'm like...why do I care if he contacts her!! They deserve each other, those selfish jerks!! Is the only reason he told me because her H was going to out them? Or was this because he didn't want me to know who she was. He never told me that. I only found out when I went through his phone.
Of course, it doesn't matter why. I'm just mad that she is occupying space in my head. I'm mad. I'm hurt. I'm remembering. I hate this. I hate this. I hate him!! I hate her!! And when I get really honest with myself, I don't want them to end up together. Why? Because then this stupid chick..wins. What does she win? A cheater. But...she. Wins.
So silly of me. But, if I'm honest, it's the truth.
It's not silly, it's what you're feeling and it's good to express it.
You just need to change your definition of win.
I've been reading about nonviolent communication and the author holds that most communication is built around winning and losing so it's full of blame, shame, coercion, fear, punishment. NVC is based on creating connection with compassion and meeting the needs of both parties.
(how's that for a tangent based on one little 3 letter word?)
OMG!! OW's husband/ex husband just FB friend requested me. I about fell out of my chair when I realized who he was. I was like "who is? Who is...holy (insert many many curse words)
I never sent or received a FB request, but, when I suspected my W of an A, I gathered the evidence I felt I needed. Then I took that evidence and went to see OM's W. She had been doing the same since she also suspected something was going on.
Yeah. I need to really work through my feelings on her. She is just a sick selfish person. I need to view her in the same way I see my H.
Sick & selfish? Yeah, I'd agree with that. In my case, OM told his W that he and I were good friends and had no problems between us - nothing could have been further from the truth. I didn't trust or like him, neither did the kids. W thought we was a 'nice guy' who, we just misunderstood.
Turns out, not only was OM on his
sixth M, his then current W was a PA during his previous M. And I'm aware of four other women that he was sleeping with during this same time period.
I can't even begin to describe the anger I had during this time
- if it wasn't for my kids, I'd probably be in jail right now.
I'm not bragging about my actions - anyone who thinks the actions I took are correct, well, that's for them to think. On the contrary, it was real easy for my W to cry foul and accuse me of not trusting her and trying to control her. We didn't speak for almost two weeks after - so it wasn't really worth it, except for the fact I KNOW his life was just as miserable. Even that didn't make it worth it...
Tallula, I do admire your strength you have shown by NOT getting involved in the same activities I did.
blake-I think that letting the OM's W know what great. It is what I would suggest to do. But now, 4 months after I know...all this would do would piss off H and OW and add drama.
However...he just messaged me a little more. And I answered. DANG IT!! See, he is newly sober, hense how H & OW met in ala-non. He has some mutual friends of ours now, and I had wished him well on being sober in my first message since i saw our mutual friends. Anywho, he said he completely understood why I didn't want him to contact me more because...ding ding...OW stepped out on him 3-4 years ago. H, as we know has done this before. When I first found out and was going OFF about OW and how can a mother sleep with a man all while watching his wife post happy family pics on FB, he said "This is her first A!! She feels terrible!" Yeah, these 2 deserve each other if they do stay together. She sold H a sob story about her H cheating on her.
Of course he could be lying to me, but he really seemed to come from a place of complete understanding and said he totally understood that him contacting me brought up stuff about OW, cause he knows all too well. He said if he sees me in a meeting, he will steer clear of me, because he doesn't wish that mind game on his worst enemy.
So what do I do with this info...write it here. Vent here. Do nothing. Never tell H he contacted me. Never tell him what a slimey chick she is. And if they do end up together, maybe they were made for each other.
Labug-I really like that. I had so become a "WIN AT ALL COSTS" communicator. If H got some silly detail incorrect I would HAVE to comment about it. "No, it was tuesday, not wednesday."
And, I have to thank OW's H. Whether it's true or not, I have stopped spinning. I will allow myself one day to marinate in this:
My H seemed to take pride in the fact that this woman was so good and this was her first A. He was so special and she is so in love with him, that she went against her moral code because he is so wonderful. "I found another Tallula. I mean, you are an amazing person. She is a good person."
The liar has been lied too. :rubs hands together: Muh ah ah ah ah!!!
H seems (won't hold my breath until it lasts a few weeks) to see how screwed up he is. He has mentioned it many times to me, as we have been around each other more than usual. He came over to help with D2 being sick and was over all day yesterday. It's not that I see a future for us, not that I completely don't either. It's that I do just want him to find some happiness. He said "I am so sick, so messed up. I think I'll never really be happy. And I'm just a jerk (edit)." It truly isn't said in a "poor me" way. I listened each time, validated, and one time said jokingly "Well, it will be ok. 10 minutes from now it will be all my fault again..." He cracked up and said "Man, I really am lucky to have you in my life. And because you are like this again, I know when I'm blaming you, that I'm full of it. This has nothing to do with you. All me."
How did/do you feel about his comments?
"Labug, I really like that. I had so become a "WIN AT ALL COSTS" communicator. If H got some silly detail incorrect I would HAVE to comment about it. "No, it was tuesday, not wednesday."
abug-I really like that. I had so become a "WIN AT ALL COSTS" communicator. If H got some silly detail incorrect I would HAVE to comment about it. "No, it was tuesday, not wednesday."
Thank you both for that! I was that, too! It's like correcting someone and really, putting them down. With a man, it would probably be interpreted as "shaming" (from the book).
This is something I've given up now. I'm no longer the "captain of the world" whose job it is to set everybody straight!
I'm hoping that makes me a more pleasant person to be around.
Sorry for typos. This kindle is tough!
H seems (won't hold my breath until it lasts a few weeks) to see how screwed up he is. He has mentioned it many times to me, as we have been around each other more than usual. He came over to help with D2 being sick and was over all day yesterday. It's not that I see a future for us, not that I completely don't either. It's that I do just want him to find some happiness. He said "I am so sick, so messed up. I think I'll never really be happy. And I'm just a jerk (edit)." It truly isn't said in a "poor me" way. I listened each time, validated, and one time said jokingly "Well, it will be ok. 10 minutes from now it will be all my fault again..." He cracked up and said "Man, I really am lucky to have you in my life. And because you are like this again, I know when I'm blaming you, that I'm full of it. This has nothing to do with you. All me."
How did/do you feel about his comments?
Honestly, we'll see if he backs anything up with action. I'm pretty detached and just trying to live in the moment. So far this week we have Sunday: I don't want a D. Monday: texted that we should go see a lawyer. 1 hour later: I'm sorry, you are amazing. Tuesday: I'm totally screwed up, it's me. I'm a mess.
So, yeah, I don't hold out for long periods of clarity. He was upset that he had texted my parents about my grandma's loss and that they never texted him back. I didn't play into any of these comments. I just listened. Didn't react to the lawyer or no divorce either. I just listen. All tuesday he was very remorseful, more than I've seen so far. More introspective. I finally said to him "look. I'm not ready to file. If you are, great. But here is the deal. I'm working on me. Will my parents hate you forever, don't know. Will we fight about who does the dishes and puts the kids to bed forever, don't know. But I do know, that I've been able to keep a house clean, do 3 people's laundry and not fight with you since we separated. I can set boundaries with people that I previously couldn't. That I have pride in how I'm handling our children, this pregnancy. That I'm trusting in God and not my will like I was the past year. That's what I know, today. Maybe you can just look at what you know. All the rest we will know when we are suppose to know.
He took a deep breath. And agreed.
That's when I said "Well, it will be ok. 10 minutes from now it will be all my fault again."
Tallula I just don't know what else to say except again, wow. Again, your clarity of mind and the way you can respond with such calm is inspiring to me.
And to second SS, thank you Labug and Tallula for this:
"Labug, I really like that. I had so become a "WIN AT ALL COSTS" communicator. If H got some silly detail incorrect I would HAVE to comment about it. "No, it was tuesday, not wednesday."
I too am/was guilty....
I finally said to him "look. I'm not ready to file. If you are, great. But here is the deal. I'm working on me. Will my parents hate you forever, don't know. Will we fight about who does the dishes and puts the kids to bed forever, don't know. But I do know, that I've been able to keep a house clean, do 3 people's laundry and not fight with you since we separated. I can set boundaries with people that I previously couldn't. That I have pride in how I'm handling our children, this pregnancy. That I'm trusting in God and not my will like I was the past year. That's what I know, today. Maybe you can just look at what you know. All the rest we will know when we are suppose to know.
He took a deep breath. And agreed.
Outstanding!
blake-I think that letting the OM's W know what great. It is what I would suggest to do.
That's probably the ONLY thing that I wouldn't go back and do differently. She had a right to know what was going on, especially considering his history. For my part, I can see where I could've handled things MUCH better in my own glass house...
So far this week we have Sunday: I don't want a D. Monday: texted that we should go see a lawyer. 1 hour later: I'm sorry, you are amazing. Tuesday: I'm totally screwed up, it's me. I'm a mess.
Wow, he really does change directions more than a pendulum...
So, yeah, I don't hold out for long periods of clarity.
Understandable...
He was upset that he had texted my parents about my grandma's loss and that they never texted him back.
I'm sure they know at least some of what you've been going thru - what did he expect? A grand welcoming committee? And his comment may well have been an attempt at some sort of sympathy...
I didn't play into any of these comments. I just listened. Didn't react to the lawyer or no divorce either. I just listen.
Showing great strength and courage.
All tuesday he was very remorseful, more than I've seen so far. More introspective.
It's common for the WAS to show remorse and guilt - and actually feel it. My W has gone there several times. It almost seems like she's begging for forgiveness. But, I know she hasn't changed her mind either...
I finally said to him "look. I'm not ready to file. If you are, great. But here is the deal. I'm working on me. Will my parents hate you forever, don't know. Will we fight about who does the dishes and puts the kids to bed forever, don't know. But I do know, that I've been able to keep a house clean, do 3 people's laundry and not fight with you since we separated. I can set boundaries with people that I previously couldn't. That I have pride in how I'm handling our children, this pregnancy. That I'm trusting in God and not my will like I was the past year. That's what I know, today. Maybe you can just look at what you know. All the rest we will know when we are suppose to know.
He took a deep breath. And agreed.
That's when I said "Well, it will be ok. 10 minutes from now it will be all my fault again."
Again, showing great strength, courage and maturity. He has to realize, if even on a subconscious level, that you are growing as a person, and soon may well outgrow him. That may also give him some pause to think about his actions. Just a few of the questions you might consider are (mostly a rhetorical list since I'm sure you've already thought of these):
- would you take him back?
- under what conditions would you take him back?
- what boundaries would you set?
- what are the ramifications if the boundaries are broken?
- what level of transparency must he meet?
- what are you prepared to do if he refuses?
And really, all of the above is necessary for him to be willing to do to prove that he deserves YOU as his wife.
Really, you're strength and resolve is an inspiration!!
Tallula I just don't know what else to say except again, wow. Again, your clarity of mind and the way you can respond with such calm is inspiring to me.
And to second SS, thank you Labug and Tallula for this:
"Labug, I really like that. I had so become a "WIN AT ALL COSTS" communicator. If H got some silly detail incorrect I would HAVE to comment about it. "No, it was tuesday, not wednesday."
I too am/was guilty....
I appreciate that, busting. When I'm in spin mode it's hard to feel any clarity, but then I realize that I have no intention of acting on it and I go...OMG, I have changed!! OMG it will pass. And H, man he is nuts. After the text about us seeing a lawyer, then the you are amazing, he sent "I think I'm going insane." Yeah, I agree. It's hard to watch. He is so full of fear, and just plain nuts. I have never seen this in our 13 years together. I've watched this man get sober, bury his abusive father who committed suicide, take care of his alcoholic mother who then died, all before the age of 30. But I've never seen him cry. I think all of these things are bubbling up, and his way of dealing with everything was living this double life.
So, yea, my method of "discussion" was ridiculous. H "So, I was really hurt tuesday when you said you would be home at 5...I interupt "It was wednesday." H "Whatever, when you said that you would be done with your instructing at 5 ...interupting "It was wednesay and I told you I was going to run errands." H "OMG!! Let me finish, I was hurt that you snipped at me that I didn't read your text. I don't care when or where or what time!!!!" Me "I'm sorry, it just seems like you never read all of a text. Well, it was tuesday and I told you..."
:face palm:
Again, showing great strength, courage and maturity. He has to realize, if even on a subconscious level, that you are growing as a person, and soon may well outgrow him. That may also give him some pause to think about his actions. Just a few of the questions you might consider are (mostly a rhetorical list since I'm sure you've already thought of these):
- would you take him back? [/color] I don't know right now. Today, I lean towards no. Because of his behavior TODAY.
- under what conditions would you take him back?
[color:#000099] Complete transparency, defriend OW, ask for work to give us phone records monthly. A complete change of his crazy True and honest remorse. An understanding of just how insanely hurtful and devastating this was to me. - what boundaries would you set?
[/color] No woman friends, the above. When ML, using protection until I feel comfortable with his fidelity. - what are the ramifications if the boundaries are broken?
[color:#000099] Divorce. He knows that, which is why he wouldn't agree to the boundaries and we separated. He said he is scared he will keep doing it and he knows another strike if we are piecing and I'm gone. - what level of transparency must he meet?
[/color] See above - what are you prepared to do if he refuses?
[color:#000099]Well, the reason we are separated if because I told him transparancy or separation. I have no idea how long I will stand. But not indefinately. So, I am very willing to divorce my H. These things are deal breakers for me.
And really, all of the above is necessary for him to be willing to do to prove that he deserves YOU as his wife.
Really, you're strength and resolve is an inspiration!!
Thank you Blake. I have obviously thought about all this at length. I will continue to focus on me. He either does work on himself, or not. Time will tell.
I've watched this man get sober, bury his abusive father who committed suicide, take care of his alcoholic mother who then died, all before the age of 30. But I've never seen him cry. I think all of these things are bubbling up, and his way of dealing with everything was living this double life.
Wow, Tallula. Your H has had a very, very rough life. Did he ever go to therapy to dealt with any of his pain? I assume he did a 12 step program for his sobriety, but there seems to be so much he has needed to deal with, make sense and cope with...You may be right - his way of dealing might have been the escape of the double life. Would he be willing to get professional help now? It seems to me it would be crucial for his well-being and for any chance of him having any healthy R - not only with you, but anyone else in his life, specially his kids. Even if you guys don't R, I hope he can get to a healthy place for them.
So, yea, my method of "discussion" was ridiculous. H "So, I was really hurt tuesday when you said you would be home at 5...I interupt "It was wednesday." H "Whatever, when you said that you would be done with your instructing at 5 ...interupting "It was wednesay and I told you I was going to run errands." H "OMG!! Let me finish, I was hurt that you snipped at me that I didn't read your text. I don't care when or where or what time!!!!" Me "I'm sorry, it just seems like you never read all of a text. Well, it was tuesday and I told you..."
:face palm:
I didn't know if I should laugh or cry when I just read this ^^^^. I used to have the same type of dynamic with my H.
((((Tallula))))
We all, as I have said before, well mostly all, have had this dynamic with our H's...I think it is very common.
Tally, you sound good. Your H sounds crazy. Pretty much, if you can't laugh, you would never stop crying. Sometimes H just makes me laugh because his actions are so weird...and sometimes my heart breaks for him.
So I totally understand where you are.. Amazing strength...hugs
KG- He is now going to therapy. He is the one who actually said that when things are hard, he gets someone to fall in love with him. He hates every minute, almost killed himself the fist time he cheated. He never cheated on me until we got married. Yeah. When I say that above everything else, I want to to be healed, I mean it. The guy had a HORRIBLE childhood. Bad. Once he was put on lexapro he stopped cheating (4 years). Then last december we had a situation happen where he lied to me about confronting a friend of mine for firting with him. She finally told me, and I had a difficult time getting over the fact that he lied to me for 5 months and it had been causing problems between us and me & my friend. So around March of 2012, I pulled away emotionally, it was slow. And within 3 months, he started the affair. This one he fell for. I don't know why he ever thought it couldn't happen, but IC is working with him on his issues.
So my final thoughts on today, Her X and I exchanged a few more messages and then I wished him well.
1. He told me a few things last made me feel better. She is experiencing alot of negatives. She is too ashamed to go back to her regular ala-non meeting. She thinks people know & many of the woman there know & love me. Well, I am pretty fabulous, lol.
2. She just told her sister 2 weeks ago & she called her a word that rhymes with 4 and said should H & I D & they try to have an R, that their family won't accept it & she will make sure they all know they ruined his M.
3. They are trying to not see each other.
Well, I have to say...I'm glad it's life that is punishing these 2, and not me. Plus, it turns out that when her H thought he was threatening to tell me, my H had already confessed. I just didn't know who she was. I bet in their little fantasy of running off in the sunset, they knew if I knew who see was, I'm not going to be happy, happy friendly with her. But now...if these 2 end up with each other they are just going to mess each other over. But it seems like reality is coming in to play.
Obviously this changes nothing with H & I. I am glad to know that he is being honest with me & not blowing sunshine at me with the "I'm trying not to see her."
Plus, he acted crazy enough for the 2 of us. Craved some choice words in the headboard (thank god it was always at her house) and destroyed a bunch of her clothes. But, I can imagine that the second betrayal was hard!!! They D & got back together.
H & I are running with the kids in a st patty's day run & doing the parade on Saturday. He may sleep on the couch here because my house is closer & it's early in the morning. I'm a little nervous about it. I've stayed strong in the ML boundary...but I'm preggo
i just hope he won't even try it after the last time.
So I was sad today. Just had a nice cry in the shower. It still amazes me that when I just the feelings flow through me, it ends. It's like I push it down, well mostly because my kids are around, and it feels like I will be sad forever. 5 minute shower sob, much better.
It's just the inability to leave each other alone that is replaying in my head. That someone has such a hold over my H, that he is willing to throw away our family for this person. Our years together. Then I get mad because I'm over here, pregnant and alone. And he has someone to confide in, to hold him. And I'm over here crying in a warm shower.
It hurts. It just does.
I've reasched out to a woman I really respect in ala-non. I have known her for years, but was hesitant due to the fact that she loves H and goes to the meeting OW and he went to. But, I need more support from people outside of my family and friends. I need some judgement free folks. Now that her X told me that she really isn't going to meetings, I plan to hit one tomorrow night that I haven't been to in a year or so. God help me if she is there...
Well, everyone drink some green beer for me!!!!
((hugs)) Tallula... that's all I can offer.
Tallula,
I am so sorry you are going through this rough patch. You are sure well familiar now with the ups and downs and yes, it hurts like crazy.
It doesn't help when we think that our H's have someone to love and support them, while we don't. I have found that this thinking really keeps me down. I try really hard to get those thoughts our of my mind, but it's sometimes hard, specially when you are also going through the hormonal fluctuations.
I can only tell you that you will be having a lot of these ups and downs, but you are doing great. You are allowing yourself to feel your emotions when you are alone, you understand where you are and you get out of the bad waves. So you will as well after this one.
Be good to yourself, hug your little ones and think of the precious little boy that will come to give you more love and comfort.
(((((Tallula)))))
Tallula,
How many hundreds of millions, if not BILLIONS, of people on this planet don't have access to a warm shower to cry in?
Just something to think about.
---
I was going to leave it at that, but I'm new here so let me explain myself instead of potentially sounding like a jerk because I am relatively unknown. I don't mean to imply you are ungrateful AT ALL, I just know that perspective is powerful, at least for me. And I think of my problems...I even had trouble praying for my situation for awhile because I thought my prayers were so unworthy compared to others who experience famine, oppression, violence, and injustice. It made me feel selfish to pray for my seemingly insignificant problems. I have a good job. The family is well fed. We all have roofs over our heads. Everyone is healthy. No one has died. We even have A/C, hot water, and cable.
I'm not saying our suffering isn't real (the mental anguish has been terrible), but things could be much, MUCH worse. I'm thankful for that, and that line of thinking is similar to some other strategies I have read on this forum, such as writing down a gratitude list every day.
Do you any opportunities to volunteer?
I am sorry you are having a bad day, but the rest of the day is yours to control. Hit your "RESET" button. And tomorrow is a brand new day! I wish you the best and am genuinely impressed by how you are handling yourself. You motivate me!
-PM
Everytime I went through a really rough patch it was because another layer was peeing away. I almost welcomed them...almost.
You're doing the right things.
"Everytime I went through a really rough patch it was because another layer was peeing away. "
LOL! I nearly PEED myself laughing at this typo!!!
Hah! Now that's a good one.
Ok, strong T...gone. Enter messed up big time, now a sobbing mess T.
I seriously need guidance.
So, H and I had a great 24 hours. Lots of positives, great convos "I don't know what will happen with us, but I can see a future.." blah blah, I'm an idiot & slept with him. Yes, I did. He was affectionate, we ran in a st pats race, did the parade, he took a nap, woke up & looked at his phone. Bam, was short with me, said I was being sensitive. It wasn't fights or anything, just a little snippy. I joked that I guess our limit on time together was 24 hours. He left with the kids.
OWs X had messaged me "hey" the night before & I ignored it. I wanted contact ceased. Well, I'm in a meeting and I get this message :
Please get control of your husband before he starts something he can't finish:
I just received a text from him (I have not told OW we've chatted) but she obviously didn't like it when I pointed out to her that the ring she's wearing is representing a broken home & hurt. A ring that H gave her while I was in Rehab.
Next thing I know, she won't allow me to take my kids to dinner & I receive this text from your hubby:
"I wanted to thank you for being a (word that rhymes with hussy) Cause of that sexy OW's name and i are having an amazing time. I am surprised u drive that truck with as many times many name has been called out in it. Please let me know if u want to meet and talk. I bet u keep bullying people instead".
Well, #1 I messaged him that I can't hear things like this, no more. Then I started sobbing & ran out of the meeting. One of the woman I know followed me out, and I ended up telling her evetything.
I'm so hurt. I'm so mad at myself for Pretending for just a little bit that their was hope. That my hubby & I might have a chance. That I so easily lowered my self worth just to feel some love from this man.
I'm waiting for my sponsor to call me back. I just don't know what to do. Clearly her X is not stable. Not that I didn't know that, but now I am wondering if I tell H about the messaging before her X blurts it out to OW to "get her back". My H is incredibly unstable right now. Im torn as tonwhat tondo. Plus H texted all this to the guy either with me here or with my kids.
I feel like I'm in a crazy soap opera. I just feel so lost. Help! I feel a bit back at square one. I feel played. Like, I'll just keep her over here in case I desire this one isn't where I'm going...
Advice, help!!
Hi, Tallula,
First of all-breathe.
Secondly, don't beat yourself up about sleeping w your H. You love him and were looking for that from him--any of us might make the same decision in your situation.
Third, let yourself feel the way you do. It is the only way through this, even though it is very hard.
Fourth, (((((((((((((((((hugs to you))))))))))))))))))))))
This is the roller coaster ride. UP and down and loop-d-loops. Your H is not thinking straight at all.
But, you are not crazy to have hope. That's why we are here. Even when things seem hopeless.
I'm glad you told OW's X that you can't hear these things any more. He should not be enlisting your help to get to her. It is not healthy for you.
Take care, T! You will get through this difficult time & tough T will reappear stronger!
Tallula I am sorry you feel so down.
I was wondering, do you know for sure that your husband sent thise messages to OWs X? I mean if this guy is really that unstable and desperate to end your H and his W affair, couldnt he fabricate this? Did you get a typed out message or a screen shot showing the message actually came from your H?
I need that sounds weird, but if this guy is following the tactics of a theory like marraigebuilders style, he will stop at nothing to break their R up, even if it involves lies and fabrication. You know that tactic is designed to make the affair as uncomfortable as possible, and having you feel hurt and angry increases the likelyhood that you blow up at your H.
Just a thought. Not sure how sure you are that he actually wrote those messages.
Keep your head up. Your husband would be lucky to have you, and that is the truth. He will realize it one way or another!
Dont feel bad for sleeping with him. That makes him the one who used you. Why cant you feel some power in that yiu perhaps used him! I know that sounds bad, but I mean you need some love too. I think women are quick to feel used by a man because of how society raises little girls to not 'give' themselves to a man unless he deserves it. But you can induoge in some selfishness right now, if you feel like it. You enjoyed it, and you had fun. He didnt use you, you didnt lower your self worth, you used him and raised your power in the R. I am no expert, just a regular guy giving his opinion. If you can project this mentality that he is a toy to you right now, and if he senses it, he will feel weak and lesser and will want to pursue to shift the power to himself.
The vets will probably have a field day with my comments, but im just saying how I would feel if I thought my wife was using me for sex. As a man I would want to turn the tables and that would involve a lot of my thoughts and probably divert me from OW. Men enjoy the power of knowing they can have you at any time. But if they sense you are just playing them, it becomes a challenge to change that.
Again, I am not expert. I tell it like I have seen it in my time in his world. And I see a hurting comrade, who feels down. Yiu have been there for me, and so I must be here for you. Yiu had some fun. Big deal. Just dont let him get used to it or it will stroke his ego too much. You take control of if and when he gets any!
Thanks GTO. I really feel like an idiot. Because he is totally cake eating. He said so many things last night, ahhh. I mean, I get that he has felt me pull away. He does know that I'm ok with this ending. It's not like he said lets get back together, cause neither of us are close to there. I just got my hopes up a bit. I ket myself dream a bit. But...knight in shinning armor to the rescue for his damsel. Meanwhile, just dangle the strong, preggo wife who takes care of your kids. He's going away on an adventure race next weekend so I get the kuds 7 days.
Ugh!!! I'm not going to act on anything. That is amazing & a true gift. Because that is NOT what OWs X is doing. My H has anger issues & is just plain crazy right now. He would love nothing more than an opportunity to just get into a fight, so I see this as that.
I plan to block OWs H on FB so that this ends. But, I figured that could send him into pissed off world & he tells OW we messaged. I need to really think about what to do. H will LOSE his mind. But, do I want to be the bearer of that news?
Again, can I run away?
One more thing. He might feel his is slick because he got you in bed without giving up his OW. But turn him down next time and watch him become a man who is desperate for you and has to prove to himself you cant resist him. Its a game that men like to play sometimes,.......
SM- actually it's not really even the sex that bothers me so much. I am someone that can see it as a fun act. I have really had no hang ups about it since finding out, I just use protection. It's that I let myself get emotional. Ack!!
It's seems exactly like a text my H would send. Really it more ego, let's piss this guy off so he'll fight me, than i am in love with OW. Plus, her X is in a new R. They are done, hes just bewly sober & pissed!! I know it sounds weird, but my H is in a really dark place. When we were still drinking he would purposely pick fights with guys in bars. Even today he was marshaling the parade & got into a few verbal altercations. Nothing crazy, but I know him well.
And, H is Initiating texts with me...
Sweet lord. I will stay pulled back and NOT sleep with him next time he tries. I turned him down about 5 times before that. Yeah, in a matter of a week & a half... And we saw each other 5 times..
I'm sorry you are suffering T. Remember to slow down and take care of yourself. You have value and worth, never compromise that. (((T)))
Have you told OWH no more contact and blocked his number? You don't need to be in the middle of some crazy adolescent pissing match-you're pregnant and have a baby on the way.
You know some people only feel normal when there's drama involved. Back away and have as little contact as you can with H.
Boundaries are your friend.
Labug- yes. He was Facebook messaging me. I had told him to stop, so after last night I blocked him from being able to contact me.
Yeah, clearly this guy does. Well, and my H and OW, I don't want either of these people in my life nor my kids. And the way H is acting? Why does he even have this guys number? It's just ridiculous.
Now I
Just need to decide if I tell H. Maybe I don't, and if he finds out just say I blocked the guy & didn't Think it was needed to say anything.
Can you tell him as an FYI only? Just to inform him, it may extend trust but don't ask for his opinion or help in dealing with it. Sounds like blocking owh was the best way to remove yourself from the sitch. But your H will most likely find out because owh will just find a more direct way to lash out. Just tell him this is what's been going on just so you hear it from me. Hope you have a better day and can take care of yourself and baby.
The only reason I would tell him is so he heard it from me.
But, I just need to remove myself from the crazy and let the chips fall where they do. I'm not going to tell him & I need to pull waaay back from my H.
While I do believe that this doesn't need to be advertised, I'm pretending we are a happy family to most of the outside world. I'm not going to do that anymore. I lied to my neighbors & said H has been working out of town. I will not announce it to them, but I think I may tell one of them. I don't know.
I will still conduct myself with kindness, but I need to protect myself. No more family time for awhile.
T - so sorry this happened. You didn't deserve this at all.
Its a damn shame your H had to play you like that. That was cruel and unfair. Good call on blocking OWH, tho.
If it were me, I'd go completely dark, no contact except for matters with the kids. I wouldn't even let him in the house. But, that's just me.
I went to a friends house and feel a bit recharged. While I was there H called several times, then texted if I was ok & safe. I eventually resoinded just hsnging with a friend, kids ok? Then he texted other stuff about answering my phone and i just didntvtespind. She pointed out that hecwas nsnipulating me & i dont need tespond to him. I am mind reading, but i feel like he knows sinething...buy i dont care anymore. My friend is in ala-non & has known us both a really long time. She actually goes to the meeting they met in. She said shes seen a change in him.
I've been dark to H pretty much, but we did family things together. I'm don't doing that for awhile. Clearly I can keep my boundaries only so long, and he is going to keep trying to cake eat.
I need to continue to take care of myself, but really let H deal with the consequences of his choices. I'm not an R option right now. I know it, but I let myself think about it a bit. I knew he shouldn't have spent the night, so I will take this as a lesson, move on and keep my head held high. I've blocked OWH & if he tells anyone we messaged, so be it. Not my deal. I'm debating deactivating my account altogether, but I'll sleep on that a bit.
Thanks everyone for being there for my latest meltdown.
Now I
Just need to decide if I tell H. Maybe I don't, and if he finds out just say I blocked the guy & didn't Think it was needed to say anything.
I think this is appropriate and honest.
-PM
Have you told OWH no more contact and blocked his number? You don't need to be in the middle of some crazy adolescent pissing match-you're pregnant and have a baby on the way.
You know some people only feel normal when there's drama involved. Back away and have as little contact as you can with H.
Boundaries are your friend.
Bug did a much better job of being direct than I did. T, I hope you really get what we are saying, treat yourself with respect. Honor yourself and your baby. They can figure their own dysfunctional crap out any screwed up way they want to, just leave you off the crazy train. Take the time to heal you deserve it.
^^Agree. The crazytrain ticket is not worth it
Correct! I returned my ticket for a refund...I hope I don't buy another one anytime soon.
I picked the kids up, I was kind & left. Immediately. Being with my kids is the best!!!
Good, spend the refund on you
Being with kids is worth it...my H misses out on so much and he doesn't realize it at all.
Oh, thank you everyone for all of your help and words this weekend.
Journal:
After yesterday and doing my morning prayers and journaling, I really had to get gut level honest with myself. My H has placed this family in a seriously high drama situation with very unstable people. One of them being him. As painful as reading that text he send OWX was, I see it for what it is worth. My H is not the man I knew. He is desparate and he is spiraling out of control. This behavior is childish and recklass. From him to have gotten this mans phone number to text, is just ridiculous. And for this dumb woman to insight these men against each other...I have no words. I need to get out of the way, and protect myself and my children.
I saved the FB message from saturday night. I had deleted the previous conversation. I will see a lawyer in the next week to get advice. I do NOT want these people in my life. I do not want my children exposed to this.
I am already very pulled back from H, I don't text or call unless I absolutely have to regarding the children. But, I plan on no more family time. Only in public and very limited. Tomorrow night is S3's school concert. I had texted H the info last week and normally I would remind him about it. This time, I will not. Easter I had asked for the kids, and said that maybe we could all do something together, but when it gets closer I will just ask for them.
He is going out of town this weekend for a race and I have the kids. I will also not ask him what night this week he will come see them. I have already made plans. He should have asked sooner.
I really can't believe this sitch I find myself in. I feel like the only adult. But, it is what it is. I have support and I have you all. I am truly grateful. I have changed so much through this experience, and know that I will continue to change more. Peeling those layers as labug says. It's so hard. I have these times that feel so crazy and painful and I just want to lay in bed forever...but then my babies, ah my sweet babies!!! They are my saving Grace. I am so blessed!! The pain will ebb and flow, I will continue to feel. I just have to take these lessons and guard my heart better.
Ahh Tallula I am sorry for what you have been through these past several days... You seem to have gotten yourself back onto stable ground.
It's true that one person needs to be the adult and that it's best to step out of the way of the crazy train. It's fast it's furious and it will bring you down.
The layers that come off while we journey on our paths are deep and sometimes painful. But each one reveals new growth and light for ourselves. And as we shed these layers we find strength that we never knew we possessed.
I am sitting with you on the blanket. We can watch our kids play while we has some cool lemonade.
((((())))))
HI, T,
I agree you need to protect yourself. Your H is acting irrationally. Your children are fortunate to have you. You are their rock, their stability, their one stable parent who is acting in their best interests.
I hear you about the layers- it IS hard. VERY hard. Expect to cycle back around at times. Expect that the emotions you thought you have worked through will come around again and again. BUt each time they do you will be in a different place to handle them. Until someday they won't be so consuming and eventually you will be able to thought-control them.
This is what I am learning.
You ARE a different person. So am I. Everyone on this journey changes. But because we are fortunate enough to have this amazing support group here, we will save ourselves. We will come out of this a better person through this personal growth and awareness.
And, one day we will look back from a place of unbelieveable happiness and say, God, thank you for taking me on this journey. I trusted that You would guide me to this place of peace.
But, the only way to get there is to do all the hard work first.
You are doing great, T!
!
Thanks busting & GTO!
I'm reading Facing Codependence by Pia mellody.
Besides seeing how it manifests in your life, it really takes you through boundary setting. This is clearly an area of my life that is new & needs work
When times got crazy at the beginning (and trust me, they did) I set huge boundaries to protect myself as well. The sitch you see me in now, is very different from where I was in November of last year, even December. They helped me focus on myself, my kids and get myself back from a very dark place.
I am glad you will see a lawyer. H went through a period of conflicting emotions concerning what I should do (with house, kids etc) where I should live...okay, he was on the crazy train.....so I saw a lawyer to get advice and also I have D papers drawn- but that is in concert with my own private timeline.
You need to protect you and the babies first. Boundaries and lawyer are good starts
Even when H practically hated me in the beginning, he has always said I can take everything since he is the one who has been lying and done this. He hasn't wavered on that, surprisingly.
That being said, I really need advice on several issues. Most importantly is that I was a stay at home mom for 3 years, then started part time a year and a half ago. After his lease is up in June, we will almost be out of savings & we have no extra money to support his apartment. I live in a no fault state & CS is put into a formula according to income. It has been suggested by many to not work anymore days than I am because it would effect what I would get in CS. And, if I work full time I will make more than H.
Also I've been writing down exactly how much he sees the kids, should he want 50% physical custody, which also effects CS. Because...he barely has them 2 days a week now. If he would truly have them 50% of the time, I'd have no issues. So anyway. I just need info.
Ah, boundaries. I thought I had done well, but then BAM. So I will keep us being alone to a minimum. I'm way better than I use to be. Progress not perfection. My life will be calm. Stable. Happy. His & OW can be crazy drama. Have fun with that...
Big progress!!! I logged onto our banking & saw how much $ he has left until the end of may... Omg?!? He has spent so much money for this race I have no idea how he will make this money last. But, I did nothing. I'm putting it out of my mind. His problem. Total 180. TOTAL!!
Ya...I am the boundary shifting queen myself. I have been SAHM pretty much for whole marriage, part time sure, but not even one fifth H's salary. So, I had lawyer figure out exactly what I was entitled to for CS and alimony, until I am done Master's. I also had her figure out future scenarios and asked a bunch of questions about pension plans etc. It was very informative and really put my mind at ease.
My H has always said he would support us until my degree was done and then until I had a job, but things change, so I wanted to be absolutely sure we were provided for in case H went totally batsh%t lol!!
Good for you about 180 and money, it will enter you mind, trust me, but you say "This is not my choice..."
Your h is different from mine on financial stuff so i dont really have advice just thoughts. The point of CS and spousal is what do the kids need and what will get you back on your feet. Not what is the way to get the most.
If h takes care of the kids 48 hours a week where hes responsible for whatever their expenses are then, then lower cs seems reasonable, and if its 50% then even lower cs, and more time cared for by dad is usually good for kids. But if realistically hes going to do a lot less than best for the kids is max cs to you.
Is it best for the kids for you to work fulltime and get childcare? For me it is not. For smaller kids maybe it makes sense for you. If its best that you stay part time then ask for spousal that enables you to do that and get by. Remember spousal support is taxable income to you.
In my case im being told the judge will not likely agree that i should be part time and that my income will likely be extrapolated to a hypothetical full time amount when spousal support is considered. My l is probably trying to set my expectations realistically /low. You should have info from your l before making a decision not to try to earn more, to ensure your expected outcome is realistic.
But i would just hope a judge wd just want to throw the book at an adulterer leaving a pregnant wife and small kids, like you.
T - I understand your concerns. IDK why your income would affect the amount of CS he should pay - SS yes; but, I do not know since I am at the beginning of my S & D.
Good job on logging his interaction with the kids.
Only you have control over the boundaries you wish to enforce and you certainly seem to be on the non-crazy train tracks
. But his actions last week will resonate with you for a while to come - and probably not in a good way, either.
And his spending isn't our problem, either, unless he intends to move back in when the $$$ runs out...
I've tried to come up with a reasonable figure for CS & SS as well. We'll have to see how that turns out...
I've tried a number of time to figure out SS & CS to no avail. I'm certainly willing to help and pay what I have to, but, there's no telling what will come of it.
I've taken a second mortgage, raided a retirement account twice and spent a large sum of settlement money on my W trying to start and run her own businesses because she 'doesn't like to work for other people' so I hope that is considered during negotiations.
Not that I don't want to do what's right, but, I feel like I went above and beyond in many aspects WRT to financial considerations. But Florida is a no-fault state so all of this should be just the wobbly end to this roller coaster ride.
Your h is different from mine on financial stuff so i dont really have advice just thoughts. The point of CS and spousal is what do the kids need and what will get you back on your feet. Not what is the way to get the most.
^^^Is also my understanding as well. CS is for the benefit of the kids and really has little to do with income, from the research I've been doing.
If h takes care of the kids 48 hours a week where hes responsible for whatever their expenses are then, then lower cs seems reasonable, and if its 50% then even lower cs, and more time cared for by dad is usually good for kids. But if realistically hes going to do a lot less than best for the kids is max cs to you.
Again I agree with ^^^^.
Is it best for the kids for you to work fulltime and get childcare? For me it is not. For smaller kids maybe it makes sense for you. If its best that you stay part time then ask for spousal that enables you to do that and get by. Remember spousal support is taxable income to you.
^^^^Exactly
But i would just hope a judge wd just want to throw the book at an adulterer leaving a pregnant wife and small kids, like you.
And herein is the problem with no-fault states. At least in Florida, it's the equitable distribution of assets and debt, and what's best for the kids. When I suspected my W of having an A, I had a lawyer tell me adultery doesn't even enter into consideration...
yeah me neither. There's nothing punitive in any of this, it's all objective to the judge here. Other than the judge may feel punitive toward me for working less that I possibly might.
I definately don't think working more is in the best interest of my kids. We Areca ways off from school, and I'd prefer to continue to only work 2 days a week. My kids don't need any more change.
I am willing to work, of course. And working more days isn't about getting the most or anything, it's more that if I work more to finance my H's need to live in an expensive apartment have cable we don't even have... Only to then get less CS. In my state CS is figured out by total household income & then time spent with each parent. I would live for H to spend more time with the kids, but that isn't what is happening.
My goal is to be fair if this ends, but I tend to be too accommodating. I could manage in our house with CS & my 2 days. I haven't even thought of SS.
Oh, I meant I could manage to live off of CS & my 2 days. Not here in our house.
2 months ago I started working an extra day a month & it's actually been hard on my kids that week. I know they will be just fine if I have to work fulltime eventually. You have to do what you have to do. But, my main thing is to not add more days to simply finance H in this apartment to end up losing CS if we D & I wanted to go back down to 2 days a week. Especially with a newborn.
Honestly, the guy needs to live in someone's damn basement or something. His expenses are high. His rent on a 1 bedroom is only $300 less than our mortgage!!
I definately don't think working more is in the best interest of my kids. We Areca ways off from school, and I'd prefer to continue to only work 2 days a week. My kids don't need any more change.
That's logical. Just don't be surprised if a judge disagrees with you WRT to your working schedule.
I am willing to work, of course. And working more days isn't about getting the most or anything, it's more that if I work more to finance my H's need to live in an expensive apartment have cable we don't even have... Only to then get less CS. In my state CS is figured out by total household income & then time spent with each parent. I would live for H to spend more time with the kids, but that isn't what is happening.
IMHO, you shouldn't have to pay for anything for H and his apartment. He's the one who wanted it and had the A, should be his responsibility.
My goal is to be fair if this ends, but I tend to be too accommodating. I could manage in our house with CS & my 2 days. I haven't even thought of SS.
You need to look out for you and the kids - which you appear to do a good job of. Especially if his track record with spending quality time with the kids isn't stellar. After last week, it's admirable you still want to be fair. Not many would be...
Blake- to be honest, this weekend was more a "bad" on me. Don't get me wrong, he's being a huge jerk. But, I know he is conflicted. He doesn't know what he wants. He said I'm perfect, wonderful, I've changed. He's lost. He said its all on him now to get better. And...I got a little hope. Which is ok, I guess, but then i slept with him. Reality is I don't know if I see a future, but I wanted to feel connected to someone in that moment.
I just look at him as doing the best he can. It may look super crappy to me, but it's his best. I have to protect my POM, because he won't. And that is the lesson I learned this weekend. We are 2 months into him seeing a future for us, but he can't stop with OW. And he can't stop with me. So, I have to protect my boundaries. That's not on him. As much as I would like to blame him, that's old behavior. I did that. Me. Boo hiss.
You're certainly the one living it, not me, so I'm not in any position to really have an opinion. I still think it's a crappy thing to do, lol. But you're showing tremendous clarity with your willingness to accept the situation as you describe it.
For most people I know who have been thru similar sitches, they can never get past the blame game to accept their own part.
Oh, we can all have an opinion, lol. Ours are the same, crappy & selfish are words to discribe H.
But, I can only live as a victim for so long. It makes me do grateful for my years in AA & my new journey in ala-non. I can have some (some days, none) compassion for H. But, I'm the one who needs boundaries. And if I waited around for him to protect my heart, he'd still be living here doing the same thing each day. When I get real healthy, (this is rare at this stage) he is doing the same thing to OW. He isn't caring for anyone's heart.
As Labug says, boundaries are my friend.
Still feeling ok. Had to thought stop some H & OW thoughts, but feeling good overall. D2 is really struggling. She use to LOVE getting to school and now she sobs histerically when I drop her off. Clings to me. Won't let me put her down at the house, wants me to hold her everywhere. the kids are now fighting over sitting in my ever expanding lap. I've heard here and truly believe that my R with my kids just keeps getting better and better. I'm more patient and understanding. I'll just fold the laundry later, snuggle them now. Lots of crafts, lots of positive validation for them.
H came to S3's easter program. He actually called me about 45 minutes before saying he was on his way to the house. I said we were leaving in 5 minutes, so to just meet us there. He sighed and said "I really wanted to ride with you guys. I miss you so much, and I'm missing so much with the kids."
I just said "Yeah. Gotta finish getting the kids ready." D2 didn't want to sit on his lap, but I set her there and said "Mommy needs to take pictures of S3. Daddy wants some D2 snuggles." She snuggled up.
So, for some reason I decided to check our online balances yesterday. Thank goodness! H had used our debit for a few dr's visits and a med refill and so I had to transfer $ to cover all the outstanding checks. I sent him a short text to just give me a heads up when he uses the card. Well, at first I had clicked his new account because the balance was around the same as our bills checking. The man has spent a boatload of money on this race and I have no idea how the remaining $ will last the 2 + months it is suppose to. I called a friend to vent a bit and she thought I was crazy to 1. not say anthing (and I still don't plan to. Not my business. His problem.) 2. Not approach him about thinking/planning for what will happen at the end of May if we aren't ready to have him move back in.
So, my question is to you all. What do you think I should do? I know he already feels so much pressure to "fix" himself in the remaining time he has. We will not have the money to finance this particular living arrangement come June. He knows it. I worry about it a bit, but honestly I just figure it will work out. He'll have to figure out somewhere to go, and I wont allow him to move back in simply for finanacial reasons.
Evidently he doesn't feel it necessary to fix himself, otherwise he would be. And honestly, do you think anyone facing the issues he is could do that much changing in two months? Remember the believe none of what you hear and half of what you see rule? What have you seen vs. heard just in the last two weeks? Is it indicative of a man who has really dedicated himself to changing?
Again, you're the one living it, not me. So what follows is only MHO...
From my (often twisted view) I think it's time for you to ensure you and the kids are as protected as you can be - if that means cutting H off financially, so be it. He's spending money in a fashion that is detrimental to not only him, but also your entire family. Added to that, his continued contact with OW and his antagonistic contact with OWH - it's not good for you or the kids and he seems to have no problems with any of it.
"I really wanted to ride with you guys. I miss you so much, and I'm missing so much with the kids."
If this were really the case, he'd stop what he's doing things that has the potential to endanger you and the kids. Seems to me he's only playing on your emotions - which are already out of whack due to your pregnancy - so he can continue his cake-eating ways...
So, my question is to you all. What do you think I should do? I know he already feels so much pressure to "fix" himself in the remaining time he has. We will not have the money to finance this particular living arrangement come June. He knows it. I worry about it a bit, but honestly I just figure it will work out. He'll have to figure out somewhere to go, and I wont allow him to move back in simply for finanacial reasons.
You have got to protect yourself first and foremost. What if in June he is still all about the OW and doesn't have the money to stay where he is? he will probably move back in. Then you will be miserable. I take it you handled all th efinances in the relationship? That's what my ex did. I was clueless and she had to sit down with me to show me everything. Maybe you should show him the same.
Brian
Evidently he doesn't feel it necessary to fix himself, otherwise he would be. And honestly, do you think anyone facing the issues he is could do that much changing in two months? Remember the believe none of what you hear and half of what you see rule? What have you seen vs. heard just in the last two weeks? Is it indicative of a man who has really dedicated himself to changing?
Honestly, I never thought he'd figure anything out in 4 months. It was for me so I didn't have to be around the crazy each day. I'd be ok with him living at home if he'd end it with the OW...cause it's just prolonging his work. Which will be years in the making and I don't know if I'm even willing to stay for it. But I'm not 100% that I'm not.
From my (often twisted view) I think it's time for you to ensure you and the kids are as protected as you can be - if that means cutting H off financially, so be it. He's spending money in a fashion that is detrimental to not only him, but also your entire family. Added to that, his continued contact with OW and his antagonistic contact with OWH - it's not good for you or the kids and he seems to have no problems with any of it.
Well, I can't cut him off. He is our main income. He could just have his paycheck deposited elsewhere, and I believe that would just be starting a needless war. He is only using joint funds for things that were previously spent on ie meds, dr's visits. All food & apartment costs are to come from the other account. Which he has said if we D, that will come completely from his half. He actually knew himself well enough to pay all the rent upfront, so really he will just have to live "college style" on top ramon. Not on me. He may be nuts as far as this crap with OW and stuff, but financially he has not changed on being overly fair to me. He can't raid his retirement as to how the plan is set up and I manage all our finances. If this got ugly, I'd be fine. I have family and they have money and have told me they would help me. I also think, when you came from being an alcoholic 23 year old living in your car, with no one speaking to you, 20k in debt & no job...this doesn't have the potential to be the deepest hole I've dug myself out of.
"I really wanted to ride with you guys. I miss you so much, and I'm missing so much with the kids."
If this were really the case, he'd stop what he's doing things that has the potential to endanger you and the kids. Seems to me he's only playing on your emotions - which are already out of whack due to your pregnancy - so he can continue his cake-eating ways...
I have no doubt he misses us. I know that he does see I'm pulling away, and the pursuit is to keep me as an option. I also have no doubt that he is incapable of rational thought at this stage. I think that is why I hesitate to even bring it up just yet. He is crazy enough. There are plenty of people he could stay with if he had to and he could get a second job. I just think this would add pressure to someone who is clearly at the end of his rope. This stuff with OW & OWH, is NOT my H when he is healthy. I haven't seen this in over 10 years, and honestly...it's worse.
Thanks for your comments Blake. I will protect my kids for sure. I've made an appointment with a lawyer for next week.
You have got to protect yourself first and foremost. What if in June he is still all about the OW and doesn't have the money to stay where he is? he will probably move back in. Then you will be miserable. I take it you handled all th efinances in the relationship? That's what my ex did. I was clueless and she had to sit down with me to show me everything. Maybe you should show him the same.
I sat him down a few weeks before BD since that was a complaint of his. I'm too controling with the money. He knows that he will NOT move back in unless OW is gone and he is transparent. That is why I had him leave in the first place. That is something he knows or he'd still be in the house.
Tallula. I have your threads on my list of reading so hopefully I'll be able to post something useful after, but I did want to pop in and say I love the title!
I've heard here and truly believe that my R with my kids just keeps getting better and better. I'm more patient and understanding. I'll just fold the laundry later, snuggle them now. Lots of crafts, lots of positive validation for them.
This is nice :-)
Honestly, I never thought he'd figure anything out in 4 months. It was for me so I didn't have to be around the crazy each day.
Wish I had done this myself - almost daily it felt like I was going to be fitted for the self-hugging jacket if I didn't get away. Since we still live in the same house, GAling and other activities probably saved me.
I'd be ok with him living at home if he'd end it with the OW...cause it's just prolonging his work. Which will be years in the making and I don't know if I'm even willing to stay for it. But I'm not 100% that I'm not.
That's a conundrum alright. I fought those feelings from late October to the beginning or March - I know exactly how you feel. At least your H has acknowledged (if even on a superficial level) that he has demons to fight, so I guess that might offer you at least some hope.
I also think, when you came from being an alcoholic 23 year old living in your car, with no one speaking to you, 20k in debt & no job...this doesn't have the potential to be the deepest hole I've dug myself out of.
Yeah, but, now you're trying to do it with three children. Don't get me wrong - I FULLY believe you are strong and capable enough to do so. With the family help and your strength, I know you will!
I have no doubt he misses us. I know that he does see I'm pulling away, and the pursuit is to keep me as an option. I also have no doubt that he is incapable of rational thought at this stage. I think that is why I hesitate to even bring it up just yet. He is crazy enough. There are plenty of people he could stay with if he had to and he could get a second job. I just think this would add pressure to someone who is clearly at the end of his rope. This stuff with OW & OWH, is NOT my H when he is healthy. I haven't seen this in over 10 years, and honestly...it's worse.
That actually speaks volumes...
Journal:
Today H came by to pick up stuff for his race. He hung with the kids for a bit. I was in my bedroom folding laundry. He came back and was chatting and randomly says "well, I'm going move move bank in when my lease is up." I was caught off guard, like way off guard. I gave him a sideways look and said "oh are you." he said pretty much that yes, and he will stay at least until the baby is 4-6 months old regardless. I very calmly said "well, you decided to truly end it with OW & agree to the things you weren't ready to before?" he said well, so you want to deal with 3 kids all week & be away from the baby on the weekends. I said "no, That is not what i want. But that doesn't change anything."
I saw that tatic a mile away. But know in my heart what I want. He surprised me by not flipping out. I had braced myself. He got quiet. He started saying how much he hates himself & that I really should just leave him. It really wasn't in a poor me, make my wife feel sorry for me. It was like his whole body went limp. I know he does hate himself. He said that he wants to just die. And that he looks at his life. Great kids, an amazing wife, a great job, his health a new baby on the way, and how his life is perfect. Nothing is wrong. But He just can't act how he wants. Then he said how sick of hearing this I must be. I said "you talk all you want. I'm here to listen." And I did.
I feel strangely calm. Today I am sad for my friend. He is in pain. All these years the pain of watching him drink himself silly, bury his parents, the joy of being sober, in love and becoming a father. But there was always a sadness, an "im not good enough", this little 5 year ild boy who just wanted someone to wisk him out of the crazy & love him. I spent years trying to heal that pain. He spent those years trying to let me, and ignoring it. Today I know, that I can't fix it. I can't do this for him. The best thing that I can do for him, is let him do it. Let him go. He has a god, and it's not me. So, yes, right now I have tears. But not for me. I pray more than anything that he can find peace. I don't know that I will be his W for the rest of this journey & I don't know that I won't. I just know that I will continue to speak my truth. I'm in pain too, so I need what I need to heal me as well.
New GALs
-do at least 1 race a month until I can't run (hoping to make it to 36 weeks)
-finish charcoal drawing of the kids
-start going through the tubs of S3's clothes for the baby
-get a fun book to read.
Oh, I also wanted to say that I came here so desperate to save my M. But now I'm here to save me.
Just wanted to take a second to thank all of you, my DBing family. You lift me up, give me strength, and especially hope. I read alot, more than I post...and I post alot
. I do believe my God speaks through you, and this forum has been on my daily gratitude list since day 1.
Ok, enough sappy stuff...mana mana! Doo doo doo doo doo...
Ok t you gotta tell me how manamanadoodoo sounds in ur head. I read it as the muppets maNA maNA...doo DOOOO de DO-doo. Am i right?
Your h, wow. You have such compassion. Its like youre a natural at db. U did 12step right? Maybe that experience has given you a boost, natural coping skills.
Did u tell him he can move back in? My first thought was no way jose he hasnt done the work yet, but he has a point about the baby. Maybe a strict inhouse sep for a defined time wd b good help for you while not completely taking him back too soon.
Im almost thinking his cheating has been a way to sabotage himself out of self loathing without consciously being aware of it. He needs to want to change, then he needs to get real help and accountability. I listen to a religious radio advice show that talks about men needing to be in a small group of men in the church to maintain longterm accountability and support, to begin to be ablee to earn back their wive's trust after such betrayal.
Hang in there t.
Yep, muppets.
Without a doubt I believe my years in a 12 step program has helped me with DBing.
I told him no. But I also said we don't have to figure out what happens closer to the baby. I was just shocked he thought he could move back in 3 months before he's due.
I will discuss more with my IC in 2 weeks. Unfortunately, neither of us have been able to see her for a month. She was on vacation. I might, might be open to an in house S closer to the baby being here. But living with the man I love, actively trying to be with me & someone else was emotionally taxing. Add a newborn & inthinkbit would be impossible. I really didn't want to get into much yesterday, but I did say, what would be different? No way he can live here and we don't end up sleeping together. Then the eventual anguish of him talking to her. Blah, blah.
He's got things to think about. Amazingly I'm the one said nothing needs to be worked out now. Just things to think about. Earlier yesterday he did send a text that meant alot to me; now & forever u deserve everything. It's funny. Now that I'm on my own, I'm doing all of the things that I use to complain about u doing. Not keeping house clean, laundry, sporatic grocery shopping. I guess compassion is a learning process" I texted back: and do it with 2 kids. You can also substitute 2 monkeys. Same diff". He laughed back, but brought it up again in person.
He truly is lost. I am glad he brought this up so that he does get that he can't just come back in here like nothing is happening simply because we are having this baby. He wants to be able to be with me & our kids. He just may not be capable. Sad, but true.
He truly is lost. I am glad he brought this up so that he does get that he can't just come back in here like nothing is happening simply because we are having this baby. He wants to be able to be with me & our kids. He just may not be capable. Sad, but true.
I think that's probably one of the saddest things I've ever read...
The magical thinking comment is too cryptic? Or are you asking a question about something else?
Magical thinking-my wish will come true because I think it and have that power. Tallula's H thinks it's reasonable to come home and that be OK with everyone because that's what he wants.
Tallula's H thinks it's reasonable to come home and that be OK with everyone because that's what he wants.
Maybe on Fantasy Island... But yeah, I definitely see your point...
Thanks, yeah, I didn't know to what you were referring as magical thinking and what you meant by that. So it's magical thinking because he said he thought he'd move back, instead of asking if it was ok for him to move back or saying he would like to move back. It's in the tone? I think it's ok and good to for WAH to bring up something he would like, and hear the response even if it's not-on-your-life or not-until-you're-not-cheating-on-me.
The alternative would be he reads T's mind and knows she's not going to agree to it so he stays put and doesn't bring it up, that's not healthy communication.
Tallula,
how are you today?
I havent posted for awhile but am still following you strong lady.
Maybe it is a positive that he is vocalizing what he wants instead of just assuming it is something you would/would not agree to to. It could be an opportunity to open up communication in a more honest way. Is this something your H would normally do? Vocalize what he is thinking/wanting?
Also, maybe for him, he really is looking at it as an alternative to you being alone with the new baby. I am not saying its a great solution, but it shows he is thinking about it??
Been a bit since I've posted...weeee!!
Been super busy with the kids, since H was out of town this weekend. But, he has also not been by to see them yet. Last night I got pretty upset by it. Plus, my friends were texting me videos of H climbing, zip lining, etc. Makes me sad. Makes me miss my friend. He said that too, in a conversation sunday night on his way back to town. That he really likes me again. The process, missing my friend. I don't get mad at myself anymore. I should be more worried if I wasn't missing him.
So when he called to say that he had to go to his grandma's to finish getting all her stuff out (has to be out by friday) and couldn't come by to see the kids, I was upset. He did say a buch about knowing I needed a break. Yeah, I've been with the kids by myself for a week and a half. I'm pregnant and S3 has been up half the night going on 4 days. But I don't say that. Why is that? I want to never complain. I had become a huge complainer to H. Instead of my partner, I just dumped my frustrations on him. But, I also need to not go the opposite direction. Something to think about.
It's
Opps, hit enter too soon.
It's important for me to seem strong, project POM for him, but I should also be honest.
See, H took monday off. He could have spent the day cleaning out his grandma's place and then come over to see the kids when he said he would. Instead, he borrowed the snow shovel and went around shoveling people's driveways. It snowed a foot on sunday. Not ours, because I did that myself. But, he texted that he took our shovel, then some woman I don't know tagged him in a post on FB saying thanks for shoveling her driveway. I of course assume he did that for OW as well. So, I'm really upset about his priorities, but...not my deal. It is tricky to figure out how to approach the fact that his kids need more of his time. An hour and a half last week...so far we are on wednesday and they haven't seen him. They don't really ask about him much anymore. But, they act out in other ways. D2 still sobbing when I drop her off at school. S3 super clingy to any man who will give him attention.
Going to an ala-non meeting tonight, got a sitter. The kids stuff just kills me, because I know it upsets him...but these are his choices. Yea, go see your mistress before you see your kids. Nice.
Hi Tallula, can I ask why ala-non? I am not fully aware of all of your story.
As for your h's involvement in the kids, I understand that one. Although my D is 22, h says he wants to be involved in her life, but yet doesn't make the effort to make plans to be with her. This upsets me HUGELY and I have made the comments here & there to let him know that it does. As he calls/texts me often, he asks about her. I say "ask her" "talk to her", etc. I know his rel'p with her is upsetting to h. He says he wants to go for breakfast with her and doesnt. Yet, he goes for dinners/breakfasts with his friends, but not D. She is kind of avoiding him ATM because she is "giving him space" and want him to make the effort to bridge that gap. Staying out of it is soooo hard.
((HUGS)) wfm
H and I are both recovering alcoholics. I have a ton of sober and not sober alcoholics in my life. I have been going to ala-non for 5 months and it has been instrumental towards learning to detach with love from my loved ones.
Honestly, it's become more important for me right now than my AA meetings.
As for your daughter, they are both adults and can certainly manage an R on their own. I wouldn't make any comments to let you know it bothers you. But answering "ask her" politely and kindly when he asks about her is a good thing to do. Puts the responsibility on him. I work really hard not to put guilt on my H. He is the one who is responsible for his R with our kids. He can see them anytime he wants.
I don't mean to open a sore spot. If you can, can you explain the diff between ala-non and AA? I am glad that this is helping you. You seem so strong! Inspiring!
ala-non is for people who's lives have been effected by an alcoholic and AA is alcoholics anonymous, for alcoholics.
No sore subject.
You seem so strong! Inspiring!
wfm--- I absolutely agree! She is one of the strongest women I have had the honor of knowing!
((((((( )))))))
I have a friend who recommended Al-anon to me even though alcohol is not a problem in my sitch. What do you think? Is it useful in general for learning to detach, even without an alcohol problem?
Sailing, a friend is recommending the same thing to me! Would love some insight T. She said it really helps with control issues (major problem of mine!)
Wow, ladies. You have no idea how much that means to me. I'm having a pretty emotional day, and feel less than strong. Icame into work and had misunderstood my boss Monday, and made a mistake with a client...and burst into tears. Haha. My boss was like "um...eh..." He knows what is going on. I've never cried infront of him, even when telling him my sitch. So through the tears I said "I'm pregnant, exhausted and a little overly emotional today. Give me a minute..." Good lord!! Then I just grabbed my phone and texted H:
Me: messed up at work. Started sobbing...I'm going to run away from home.
H: UR pregnant, no crying in baseball.
Me: I'm serious, I'm loading up the kids and heading to Idaho. I'm gonna live off the land. Wait, I'm crap at chopping wood. U come for that.
H:
How big was the mistake?
Me: Not big. I hadn't snapped out of a "pathetic" mood, so this just topped it off. Thank for knocking me up, it's really helping me with my goal of being the crazy emotional woman who cries at work.
H: Your welcome. I hate when you are sad
Me:Just read this: There are 2 ways to be happy: improve your reality, or lower your expectaions. See, something WANTS me to move to Idaho. I have zero expecations anymore.
H: Does that mean you hate me?
AND THIS IS WHERE I SHOULD HAVE SAID: NO and went back to work...
Me: Of course not. I shouldn't have texted you. I'm sad. I'm exhausted. I'm pregnant. I miss my husband. I miss my best friend. I just cried at work, so I reached out to u. I'm really ok. I just need to have more patience for myself.
H. Well said & I get it. Don't ever b ashamed to be u around me. I'm safe
Me: K. Back to work! There's no crying in the stock market...
I haven't texted anymore. Blarg. I have trouble being vulerable around anyone, but right now with H...hate it. It's a positive that he reacted the with compassion and concern. 2 months ago he screamed at me for crying, but still. I hate it.
Now to detach and stay backed off.
"I have a friend who recommended Al-anon to me even though alcohol is not a problem in my sitch. What do you think? Is it useful in general for learning to detach, even without an alcohol problem?"
Well, it is for each member to decide if they belong. No one would kick you out. Ha. I do believe that the literature would help at a minimum. It is all about detachment and letting other people be themselves and live their lives, regardless of how distructive it is. Go to the website and check it out. google ala-non. We can't link things here.
Oh, and I did their 4th step workbook...um. Yeah, if you have control issues. It's good for identifying and working through those.
Journal-
Just venting. I was paying bills through our bank accounts and I clicked on his. Saw that he ate yesterday at a place in her town. He has no reason to be there for work or any other reason than to see her. Makes me extra sad for my kids, considering I don't work tuesdays, so he could have eaten with them. Oh, let's be honest. For me too. I assume he is seeing her all the time, so it's not like that is new.
Plus, I'm just really emotional today. (see above post, ha) Just missing H. I think it is worse now that he actually is being kind, opening up to me and moving more towards me. He was going to bring the kids over saturday evening to dye eggs and everyone spend the night so we could both be here for them to wake up to their easter baskets. I need to really think about this. Last time we ended up ML and he slept in our bed. Doubt that would be different. I do know if I tell him I can't emotionally handle it, he would respect that. He asked me that the last time and I thought I'd be ok. Honestly, I was until the whole OWH drama. These are all things to really journal about and especially discuss with IC.
I feel so weak admitting that I'm still in love with this man. But, I am. Here we are. And let's face it...I'm pregnant and have needs
If I get honest...that's a big part of the problem
But, H just texted he plans to come over tonight and tomorrow night to see the kids. They will be so excited.
All boils down to what you're willing to accept right now.
It's hormones. They do tend to play tricks on the mind and body - and you acknowledge that.
Big question: would you have put up with this when you weren't prego? Not to be preachy, because I'm the last one with a right - your kids are so close together has your body even fully recovered from the first two? Physically wise, I've read that it takes two years for a woman's body to recover from child birth. I have no real idea how long it takes for the hormones to normalize...
All boils down to what you're willing to accept right now.
Yep. That's the deal. That's what I need to really look at. Honestly, I'm pretty much 75% willing to have sex because I want it since I'm pregnant, and won't cheat. I've always been very sexual, but I'm turbo charged preggo. Where it gets tricky is when my mind wonders to "am I letting him cake eat..." Like am I letting him get away with something. And that's just silly. Most of the time I don't care. I want to get some. I am capable of separating the feelings from sex. Truly.
Big question: would you have put up with this when you weren't prego? Not to be preachy, because I'm the last one with a right - your kids are so close together has your body even fully recovered from the first two? Physically wise, I've read that it takes two years for a woman's body to recover from child birth. I have no real idea how long it takes for the hormones to normalize...
Oh, probably not. My hormones are definatley playing a large part. At least in my emotional state. I often wonder if I'd even be standing at this point if I wasn't pregnant. But, I am. I can't change it. So, here we are. You aren't being preachy at all. I put this out there to get others opinions. I've removed the potential drama, ie OWH. I have accepted that OW is still around, so it's not like I'm pretending he isn't still sleeping with her. I'm firm on no moving back unless NC and no moving forward with R. So, I need to really soul search. And I would have to say to him that if he spends the night, no moves. Cause my preggo brain might say yes and it has the potential to hurt me emotionally. For as sick as H is, me saying that would stop him in his tracks. He's gotten that now when I'm saying no sex, it's to protect my boundaries, not an insult to him. Well, at least he has gotten that for a few weeks...
God, it was so much easier when he hated me... hahaha. NEVER thought I'd say that. Never.
hmmph.. Tallulah, u think its just your preggo brain wanting sex? I am having lots of sex dreams. I miss sex. I can't understand how mr. demanding horny hubby is not caving into me. Iknow he can take care of it himself, but is that really enough? I know there isn't another woman. So, how is this even possible for him? His drive was greater than mine!
hmmph.. Tallulah, u think its just your preggo brain wanting sex? I am having lots of sex dreams. I miss sex. I can't understand how mr. demanding horny hubby is not caving into me. Iknow he can take care of it himself, but is that really enough? I know there isn't another woman. So, how is this even possible for him? His drive was greater than mine!
No, I'd still want sex. It makes it harder for me to turn him down, especially since I can look at it as sex. I never initiate. That's all H. So, do I think I can not do it if he spends the night? That's the question. 50/50, I think. He brought up doing this in a text, so I said I'd think about it. I'd just set that ground rule. Hands off the preggo wife.
I dunno Tallula, sounds like he is cake eating. Its weird that he even brought it up in text. Like its part of his plan. Is he still coming over even if no sex?
Be careful.
No, haha. Not the sex. Doing the eggs & spending the night. It's the first year both kids will "get it" for Easter. Neither of us wants to miss out. I'm hesitant because when he spend that much time alone, he has become very affectionate & most timed I can resist, but the last time I didn't. There would need to be ground rules & me being honest about my ability to say no. And...do I even want to say no.
I think you should... cuz it sounds like cake eating, especially if he has OW. Why would he EVER come back if he can have 2 women? I wish some affection was tossed my way.
I agree with wfm. Just Say No!! And not just for the Cake Eating aspect, either - as if it isn't enough. I'm not a female, obviously, so I have no clue what the female sex drive while prego is like.
However, I do know what it's like to have to endure months at a time of no sex - it ain't no damn fun!! But, I'd rather do that than put my health at risk if I didn't know where my W has been - and more importantly, with whom... And it's easier for women to catch a disease than for men. Not to mention the act he pulled after the last time was about as classless as one can get, and had a negative emotional impact on you.
Again, not trying to be preachy - but, in the end, is it worth the risks right now?
Feel free to tell me to shut up, lol...
Hi, Tallula,
I get off the boards for a week and OMG, you have had quite a busy time of things! WOW.
I agree with other. Set boundaries for yourself--no sex w H while he's w OW. Have you tried other "options" for relieving the sex drive? I'm just saying...
The "nice" thing is a killer, I have to say. It is much easier to be upset and mad at them when they are acting like jerks.
On the other hand, co-parenting will be much easier if you can remain "friendly" without getting overly friendly and letting your emotions get the best of you.
How many weeks r u now??
Well, I thought sex and emotion would be a problem for me...it's not lol...I understand where you are..is it cake eating on his part? Yep. But I also think it is on mine as well. I get some, and have none of the drama. Of course, when GF comes back, I may not see him for awhile, because, you know , he's "in a serious relationship" as he tells me.
I need my whack a mole stick.....
Geez Ruby, when I said you were his EA, you didn't correct me and say PA. Are you sure there's no emotion and no drama?
Ok, I really wasn't debating actually having sex with him. Don't know how I got sidetracked by that. It is a boundary that I set and maintained since we S, except when I let him spend the night 2 weeks ago. So, when he asked if he could stay over for easter, I was wondering if I would be able to decline his advances or if I should not allow it.
We spoke last night about the boundaries. I said he could stay over as long as he would please not try to be affectionate and try to have sex. That I am not in an open marriage. Since I do find it difficult to say no, if he could respect that he could stay over. If it happens again, then we will have no more sleep overs. If OW is out of the picture we can discuss that then. We'll see...
Ruby, yea, I didn't realize you guys were having sex either.
How did he respond to your statements Tallula?
He agreed to it. Understood, doesn't want to hurt me, blah blah. Like I said...we'll see...
But, just having said it makes me feel strong about it. And, let's face it, I'm pretty an irresistable pregnant woman.
lol, yes you are.
Good to feel strong. Verbalizing our needs can do that.
I'm pretty an irresistable pregnant woman.
Awesome, carry that attitude forward in life.
Be strong in your boundaries. I have a friend that contracted a STD from his WAW, so... protect yourself.
Yeah, saying it helps. Plus, he flaked out on the kids thursday night. Said he wasn't feeling good. So I had to tell them, again, he wasn't coming. I really just never thought he'd end up "this guy". So, we'll see what happens in the next few weeks. Next time he flakes I'm going to drop them off at his apartment. I know in his head he thinks he's being a good dad. In 2 weeks he has seen them 3 total hours.
S3 said the other day that he doesn't miss daddy, but I'd miss you mommy. We don't have a daddy anymore. Sigh. Sometimes I think being a capable, strong woman has it's drawbacks. H knows I'll pick up the slack, because I just do. That's who I am. Sadly, I just didn't know that he was the type to take total advantage at the expense of his children. But, we all have choices in life. These are his. My kids are blessed to have amazing men in their lives who will give them what they need. Currently, it's not their father. So, I will count my blessings that I have wonderful people who love us, and not focus on the one that can't show us the love we deserve. The universe will provide us what we need. Who am I to question what it looks like. It just is.
Oh, and that was suppose to be "I'm a pretty irresistable pregnant woman" Damn straight!! FYI-when I did slip up 2 weeks ago, I was protected. I was only half dumb...
Lol! You are irresistible
WTG Tallula !! Glad to hear you did the right thing!!
Sometimes I think being a capable, strong woman has it's drawbacks. H knows I'll pick up the slack, because I just do.
I relate to this. I think it made it easier for H to leave because he knew deep inside that I would be able to pick up the slack.