Starting a new thread...here's the link the my last.
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2319753&page=11 In a nutshell- BD last June; H's mother died in August; H moved out in Nov; been DBing since BD; H has been involved in EA w OW for over a year; H is "in love" w her/ not giving her up.
Sorry, I've been off the radar here for a few days. Been trying to process the latest BD from H.
On Saturday he says he "needs to talk" and tells me #1 He has no intention of giving up his apartment at the end of the 6 months (end of April); #2 He wants his "finanacial freedom" to pay his own bills & not have me be able to see his credit card spending or his cell phone calls, and #3 He is still "in love" w OW and is not willing to let his feelings change.
Quite a lot to take for me. I wasn't shocked at anything he said and I did 90% of the listening. I did cry. It hurt a lot even though it did not shock me.
I asked him WHY if he "cares me for so much" that he treats me like $hit? He said he didn't mean too but thought that if he was nice in any way that I might misread it to be him "coming back" or "regaining his feelings."
He is adament that his feelings for OW will not change and that his feelings for me (not in love) won't either. He's not willing to explore this possibility w me.
I feel so defeated. I feel so hopeless. I really don't know what's left of our M anymore anyway...just a piece of paper, really. I may be done...I just don't know anymore. It really seems like he is completely gone. For over a year now, maybe more.
But, I think HE should be the one who has to "end it" b/c he's the one that has wanted this the whole time, not me. I want him to own this to the end. I want him to say it's over.
I'm tired of being treated like nothing. I deserve more, better. I deserve happiness, respect, and I deserve to find myself again!
I find myself crying as I write this, which is why I've haven't been here in a couple of days. But now, I need help. Encouragement. Direction. Advice.
ANyone??? ruby? Tori? labug? Tallula? sucker? AS? others????
Oh, and just found out last week SIL (H's sister) has breast cancer & has to go thru 4 months of chemo then get a complete masectomy.
FIL (H's dad) is having brain surgery on Friday (not cancer) & should be okay in the long run.
And, H's aunt is in hospital for tests which turn out to be lymphoma.
TO MUCH FOR ONE FAMILY TO DEAL WITH!!! I THINK H WILL BE LOST FOREVER AS HIS FAMILY IS LITERALLY FALLING APART!!!
Lil'G, I'm so sorry to hear of your recent pain. I know it hurts and you deserve so much better, but It sounds like H is going to be lost for quite a while still. The only thing you can do is detach and let him go. Work on your plan for you and the boys.
Cry, scream, punch some pillows. Let it all out. Then sit down and write up your plan. The plan with H out of the picture.
You are a strong woman, you can do this.
Thanks, FY. Sounds like a good idea. And you are right, H will be lost for a long while more.
GTO I am sorry to hear this. All I can say is to breathe and then breathe some more!
For me this whole thing is like waling around with a knife in my stomach, with someone else in the picture (my W has someone she had/has an EA with and doesnt want to give up also) makes it feel like someone took that knife and is twisting it and pushing it in deeper. Sorry this is my pain and I feel yours too.
The things I believe in most from all of the amazing advice on here is this:
Believe none of what she says and half of what she does.
GAL and make yourself the best person you can be.
Become a spouse that your H would be crazy to leave.
Don't peruse
There is sooo much more that I like, but those are what is driving me right now.
I honestly emempathize with you, I KNOW it hurts!
Hang in there!!!
Sorry littleGTO, that is a really rough thing to hear, really awful. I can remember about the halfway point where my H reiterated that he hadn't changed his mind one bit, and he too was quite clear about how careful he was being to not get my hopes up at all or raise any expectations by acting like he cared or being nice. I know it hurts just like BD all over again.
It sound like you need to go darker and really start living your life right now the way you deserve. What's stopping you? Aside from dating and starting new relationships, what else does living your life look like? Where will you get your happiness and respect, and how are you going to find yourself? Why wait for some sign from H before doing that?
little GTO,
Adinva is right.
This sort of story is what most seem to say.
They are completely done; will never change; don't want to have anything more to do with us because it will give us false hope; blah, blah, blah.
It's standard.
Some of them change their minds, nevertheless. You know this will take a long long time for him to work though.
In the meantime, keep on your path. Have hope for yourself and the new, different and better life that you are going to lead.
We're right here with you. And we know how hard it is.
GTO, I hope you start feeling better soon. What your talking about is part of my struggle. Truly letting them go and knowing they may actually leave, is a painful struggle. However until we really let go and allow ourselves to heal we cannot move forward. We cannot have a healthy relationship with them until we have a healthy relationship with ourselves. Find a way to detach, for me it's a group of men I trust, that I can tell them things I have told no one before in my life. Fears and doubts that I tried to control yet I could not. The group I'm in is Celebrate Recovery and it has saved me. My relationship with my wife may recover at some point in the future but it will never recover until I am healthy. I hope my struggles helps you in some small way. I am now starting to claw my way out of this pit of muck and sludge called self doubt and loathing. Good luck GTO, I am here shouting and encouraging you to crawl with me.
GTO I am sorry you had to hear this awfulness.
What you are hearing is standard script I believe.
I asked him WHY if he "cares me for so much" that he treats me like $hit? He said he didn't mean too but thought that if he was nice in any way that I might misread it to be him "coming back" or "regaining his feelings."
He is adament that his feelings for OW will not change and that his feelings for me (not in love) won't either. He's not willing to explore this possibility w me.
For some reason their minds will 'never change' yet funnily enough they said the same things to us when they decided to marry us.
And the thing about them not being nice for fear WE will be misled? To be honest? I am starting to think that if they allowed themselves to be nice, they are the ones that might start rethinking their decisions about us. They are afraid to connect. Being cold and adamant with us makes it easier for them to stick with their decisions about OW/OM I think. When they are cold and adamant , they expect us to react in a negative, pleading, angry way....and that justifies their position even more in their heads.
So don't let how he is affect you at all. Respond to him in the way you would respond to a neighbor because that is just who you are...a kind and compassionate person.
It may take awhile GTO.
Try not to let his hurtful words get absorbed into your system. There may be more to come still and you need to work on YOU. HIs actions are NOT a reflection of you right now. This is all him. Let him go.
I know easier said than done. I am still working on it myself and I am in 2.5.
Love you GTO.
((((((((( )))))))))
GTO, I'm so sorry this is where you find yourself. I will echo what the others said about the "script". My H said similar things a week after BD.
You are a strong woman & great mom! I still think that the believe none of what they say & half of what they do applies here. Keep focused on you & the positives in your life.
Big hugs!!!
This is such a painful thing to hear. I know I got it a couple of months ago and then to a lesser degree just last weekend. It still hurts even after all this time. But not as much. It does get better.
You've gotten some good advice.
Do start living your life for you. Act as if.
And work on that control thing, letting go of that and not worrying so much about what others thought of me has been such a gift for me.
But it takes a lot of digging into who you want to be and what's important to you to get there.
You can do this.
I asked him WHY if he "cares me for so much" that he treats me like $hit? He said he didn't mean too but thought that if he was nice in any way that I might misread it to be him "coming back" or "regaining his feelings."
When my W was still at home she treated me like crap for a week or so. Then she came to me and said she just couldn't do it anymore. I asked her why she did and she pretty much said the same thing as your H, that she thought it would be easier for ME to accept the sitch if she treated me like dirt and she didn't want to send the wrong signals by being friendly towards me! It's just amazing how the mind of a WAS can justify things. But she felt guilty about it and said I was too nice and didn't deserve to be treated that way. Yay me, LOL!
He is adament that his feelings for OW will not change
I'd lay money that there was a time not so long ago that he would have said the exact same thing about YOU. He's a fool if he thinks "feelings" are forever.
I feel so defeated. I feel so hopeless.
That's OK, you deserve to feel that way a little while. Just take some time to let those feelings wash over you. But try to remember that they are just feelings. They don't control you and they don't define you. Like Michele says in DR, the person you are right now is not the real you. This person is depressed, sad, frustrated; but this is due to your sitch. The real you is still in there, you've just got to find her again.
I'm tired of being treated like nothing. I deserve more, better. I deserve happiness, respect, and I deserve to find myself again!
You're absolutely right. And you know you're not going to get that from H, at least not for a long, long time. So you've got to seriously detach from him, you WILL find yourself and your happiness if you do
That part was sarcasm by the way. Even now it just blows my mind that W (or any WAS) could think that treating their spouse like crap is actually beneficial and a GOOD idea!
That part was sarcasm by the way. Even now it just blows my mind that W (or any WAS) could think that treating their spouse like crap is actually beneficial and a GOOD idea!
Well the thought process that goes down for this is that you aren't any one special and they aren't kissing your ass, and it ends up in that they won't do anything for you, and then they say they are not "taking care of you", but they are actively hurting you ontop of it.
The other one is the selfish entitlement of a cake eater. It's not that they concerned that maybe they are hurting you, they are so focused on themself that they never even thought of you...
GTO, you've been given great advice. Focus on yourself and give some thought to what you want to do. He definitely should own the responsibility to file for D if that is what he wants. My question is, if he really is done, then why isn't he filing?
Hang in there. We're here for you.
Tori,
I don't know why he isn't filing? Maybe too much to deal w his dad and his sister (health issues/cancer). Maybe he wants to keep me around "just in case" --you know, option B. Maybe b/c OW is still livng w her eXH (selling the house) he doesn't feel rushed right now.
I've asked myself that question a lot lately.
I think ruby has it right in trying to have the friendship thing...you never know where they could take you! I just have to remember no expectations. Friendly like a neighbor. Friendly like a co-worker.
On another note, I don't know why I still wear my wedding anniversary rings. They are so special to me, yet I don't really feel married any more. Just on paper.
Does he wear his ring? If not, I think that is considered pressure. Maybe a veteran can chime in.
I still wear my ring and my W is in an active affair! But she wears her wedding band and also she has only told a few people of what is going on so I feel by taking mine off it would be forcing the situation to come out into the open. Almost like exposing.
I think is he has taken his off, and your separation is public, it is not making you look strong and forward looking if you still wear it. May even be interpreted as clingy.
That's my opinion but don't rush and take it off before getting other opinions! Do you have a DB coach? I'd you don't, try to get one if you can afford it. My coach has been wonderful and.clarified lots of things for me.
You need not get hung up on rings. TRUST me on this. Little you are projecting. You need to detach and start working on yourself. EE was suggested or any workshop to get you started. People have also mention Imago. You are also projecting and trying to figure out his every move. Yes it hurts but you need to move forward.
YOU NEED TO GO 100% DARK.
Did you start to see how he reacted when you said you were going out but didn't tell him where? He got panicked or upset. GOOD. But you're not continuing to do things like this.
You are going DARK FOR YOU. BTW everything he says is scripted. Right down to the very last word. My W also asked for her own bank account and even withdrew money out of our JC. She took the exact amount she came with into the marriage 10 years ago. Sort of comical now.
Don't worry why he isn't filing. You really need to start working on yourself, take the focus off him, go dark, stay mysterious, and find a support system..It doesn't appear to me you are consistantly doing anything suggested to you. You have to. Again I waited 1 year to do so and it wrecked me. Why would you want to do that to yourself?
My H does not and has not EVER worn a wedding ring, so he didnt have to make a decision about that.
PoN, I have gone as dark as I could for a long while--just talk about the kids and finances, as needed. BUT that has gotten me nowhere. Plus, I see him almost every day, although briefly.
I HAVE been working on myself. I am definitely in a better place than I was a month ago. The recent R conversation w H set me back though.
It makes me realize how done he believes he is. I know that is mind reading, but ALL his actions lead me to believe this.
I DO have a good support system -- a very good one. I just don't feel like talking about the same stuff over and over and I'm sure my family & friends don't want to hear it over and over.
I had an IC session yesterday. I confessed to her I know I need to be GALing but I just can't seem to get going too quickly. Absolutely ALL my friends are married w families, so there w/e's tend to be wrapped up in the family activities that we always were/are.
Philadelphia is too far for me to go to EE. I need to look for something more locally. A friend of mine did get tickets today for Jillian Michaels who is coming to our area in May! (She inspires me!):)
You are right, PoN, I do need to GAL. BUT, you are wrong that I haven't been doing anything suggested to me. More of the same isn't getting me anywhere (darkish). He perceives me as being cold, which wasn't my intent. I was trying to be dim. He is the same to me.
My H is out w his co-workers for an evening out including OW. Although I am definitely thinking about it, I am not obsessing or even overly concerned about what he might or might not do tonight.
Eventually I figure they will become physical. I actually am surprised it hasn't happened yet (am I sure, yeah, pretty sure it hasn't already happened).
FIL was in 10 hours of brain surgery today, but he will be fine. Coming out of recovery okay, SIL says. That is a huge relief (for me and my H, I'm sure).
His M's death and now his father's surgery and then his S is going to have chemo then surgery starting the beginning of March. It will be a long time before our family sees better times. By then who knows where we'll be.
No GALs planned except boys' basketball games and church on Sunday. Might invite GF over for drinks at my house tomorrow to hang out. Hope to play indoor tennis next w/e (cancelled from last w/e. Want to visit FIL either in hospital or at his home sometime this coming week.
Just chillin' out w my boys tonight!
I love that u can predict the future, really. And that u lie to yourself so well. Carry on.
And are your Sunday plans planned or just wishful thinking?
Rick, if you're not there to help people you really shouldn't be posting.
Thanks, MrBond.
I was just going to ask rick what he meant by lying to myself? Sorry, maybe I should have said I am WAY LESS CONCERNED with what my H may or may not be doing w OW tonight than I was in December when their co-workers last got together.
They have been in an EA for over a year. They sext each other. He has told me how attracted they are to each other. I can't predict the future but I am stating what I believe to be true so that WHEN it happens I will be emotionally prepared. It is not so much to mind read or predict the future as it is to HELP ME.
I really didn't understand the comment about Sunday plans,rick!
My boys and I will go to church in the morning. Probably will go to the movies or something low key with them. H will be going to see his dad in the hospital all day.
Never mind Rick.
Right now you're dealing it in the way that's completely normal. That's why they call it a rollercoaster. Continue to concentrate on yourself as hard as it may be.
Oh Mr Bond you still have a ways to go but your insight is always welcome.
No offense taken. I'm here to help even if u and others don't agree with my approach. It's not a perfect science u know. It's a hit or miss in mental health.
Little read my answer to your post. Not here to humiliate u or poke holes. I'm here because I know how hurtful and painful this is. I know how the spinning of your head feels. The confusion the end of your dreams as a family feels. I don't ask questions as an outsider. Take everything with a grain of salt. Otherwise many if us would still be married. Ok?
ok Little do what you think helps your sitch the best. Only you can gauge this. I know this is hard and OW makes it very hard.
just take 1 day at a time.
how did the latest bomb drop conversation even come up may i ask?
The latest BD came up b/c H showed up last Sat and said he wanted to talk to me. HE brought up the whole conversation--not leaving his apartment, wants finanical freedom, and still feelings have not changed "for so long" and he's "unwilling to let them change."
I listened A LOT. I did cry as it was all hard to hear. I wasn't shocked, however.
PoN, I don't KNOW what will help my sitch best! NOthing I've done seems to work. And with 3 children and seeing him daily (as he comes to our house to be w boys after school) it is impossible to go dark. DIM, I've tried.
Maybe my "dimness" has come off cold--as H has said that's how I seem to him at times. Well, I don't know if I should continue this or not, as Michele says to try something different if you aren't getting any results.
You are right that OW in picture makes this very tough. B/c their R is still based in fantasyland (as it has been only thru emails/texts and at work) he still has her on a pedestal & she is w/o flaws.
Someone recently said to me that even though they have been "in love" for over a year now, their R really is stuck in that fantasy world & until they move to reality he may not discover that she is NOT the answer to his happiness issues, even he may think she is. IDK.
I am hoping H will not show up here at the house tomorrow b/c he will be gone on Sunday. I'd rather just be w my boys alone. But, I know they will want to see him (as they didn't see him today b/c he went out w co-workers including OW). <sigh>
Okay, I realize I'm focusing way too much on him tonight...will shift my thinking & go read some other posts now!
Oh, little, I've been thinking of you!
Maybe setting up a different agreement with the kids would help? Even though my H and I are getting along, I would not be making the strides I have detaching & POM seeing him every day. Just some food for thought. Plus, I still think you should get a weekend off here or there.
The OM stuff has to be so hard to hear. I know hearing my H talk about another woman & his caring for her just ripped my heart out.
BIG HUGS!!
Hope you get in some tennis tomorrow!
Thanks, Tallula!
No tennis until next weekend,I'm afraid.
I hear you about the kids and visitation needing to change. I guess FOR ME emotionally I need to take this in baby steps. Last weekend two of the boys spent the night at his aparmt. That was HUGE for me. Didn't love being alone at the house, but I went out w a friend and had a good time so not all bad. And the boys liked it too.
Most days I only see H for a matter of minutes so it's really not that bad. Weekends are different but they are evolving, I think.
I'm hoping that H will start to open up to me more talking about his family. Maybe that will give us a bit of a connection. No expectations. Just thinking.
GTO, good job letting the kids go to his place.
Also, the troubles in his family are an opportunity to listen to him and reestablish the connection. You are correct.
The "going dim" strategy has to go with the attitude that you're moving on with your life and understand that he's moving on with his. If you go dim and also ask him to reconsider, etc., you are making things more confusing for him. If you apply the LRT, you need to convey that you understand he is done with the M. And this is why the LRT is so hard. At the same time, you need to do the 180's. I think I've asked you this before, but what are your 180's? How can you be a better wife? What is he getting from the OW that he wasn't getting from you? Tough questions, but worth answering. They'll give you a sense of direction.
Big hug to you!
Tori,
It is good to review my 180s--not taking things for granted, specifically things he did around the house. He needed WoA & I was not good at that. I do that naturally now. I thank him for everything-genuinely.
I also compliment him whenever possible- I like your new sweater. You smell good. You are doing a great job with the boys. etc, etc, etc.
I also have the mantra "Don't sweat the small stuff." I realized I like to be in control and that even the little stuff had to be a certain way. I have done a BIG 180 with that. I really let a lot of things go or let H or boys decide.
And decisions regarding the boys were mostly mind. If H offered his opinions and I didn't agree, I most always trumped his. Now, I really listen and try to reach a mutual decision or if I don't have really strong feelings about something I let H decide.
I also think I am becoming a much better listener and often hold my tongue and really try to think if what I have to say will help our sitch at all. If not, I try not to say it. I'm definitely not perfect here, but I'm really working on it.
I was emotionally not there for H last Jan/Feb due to some health problems (minor) and the "winter blues" I have gone through each year. He started talking daily to a co-worker who was struggling in her own M. He felt she really listened to him, gave him WoA that he wasn't getting from me and she needed him to rescue her from her verbally abusive H. He didn't feel appreciated or needed at home. (So far from the truth, but that is how he felt.)
His mom was also told in February that she would be battling ovarian cancer the rest of her life. Well, that was just 1 year after she had been diagnosed & we realized that meant she wasn't going to recover & that she had a small inite amount of time left.
PoN, I have read DB and DR. I have highlighted parts and wrote my own notes everywhere. I know I need to revisit them both from time to time to remind myself what I need to be doing. Why do you question this?
"Oh Mr Bond you still have a ways to go but your insight is always welcome."
So petty. I'm glad you were able to save your M. We are just trying to help others do the same in a positive way.
I say this because your H is basically cheating on you with EA but I feel you are still trying to catering to him. I would think you should be doing LRT and doing a lot more Gal and not worrying a bit what he thinks
GTO, I know this is so difficult. I can read the pain in every post. (( ))
You're constantly looking for signs that things are changing and that's to be expected early on. We want to turn the Titanic around.
But we can't.
I think it helps to stop fighting, and I know that sounds strange because after all, aren't we supposed to be "fighting" for our marriage. I don't think so.
What we're doing is changing parts of ourselves that we don't like, that we know are hurtful to others, that cause problems in all our Rs. That shouldn't involve fighting so much as an acceptance of who we are and who we want to be. You can only discover that in the quiet, still moments when we look deep within.
I think many of us lose that because we get so caught up in activities. Being busy has become a goal for many people. Often times those activities are an excuse to not be with ourselves, to not look at our Rs and we don't have time to work on ourselves because we have to be somewhere else.
Always.
Do you do that or are you comfortable just being? Do you take time to reflect and renew?
I see your 180s in your previous post and that's good but what are you doing for you?
I think looking at the big picture is also helpful. You didn't get into this predicament alone, your H played his part even if it seems he didn't. Men (or women) who stand on the sidelines and then aren't happy with the way things went are just as controlling as those of us who overtly control. That's just for perspective. You can only change you and it sounds like you're making strides. Do you feel that you're making progress with you, not your M but with you?
As you can see, I've been at this for close to 2 years but only on the boards for 18 months. The first 6 months or so before I came here, I was a mess and was sure it was all about me and what I did wrong. I didn't start to really makes changes until I accepted me as I am with all my flaws. I then was able to see what I needed to change to make myself who I wanted to be. Before that it was all about changing to get him to come back.
Those are the changes that don't last.
So relax into this, nothing worth happening happens quickly. You've heard it before, it's a marathon, not a sprint. Work on you, stop worrying so much about what your H will or won't do. I doubt that he even knows but the fact is, it doesn't matter.
The 2 of you are on separate paths right now. You have your goals, he has his and what those are is not your business, you have enough to do to stay on your path. Sometime in the future your baths might intersect or converge, you just don't know. All you can do is stay on the path today and not worry about what's ahead. Worrying about the future never changed anything. I used to think the more I worried about something, the more prepared I was for whatever.
Wrong.
It just robbed me of today. I still have to stop the obsessive worry sometimes.
Life is so much better without it.
^^ THIS!
Man, labug, I needed this today too. I feel so grateful to have found DB & the boards so early in in my sitch. I am having an emotional weekend and I was just thinking that I may have left my schedule too open with the kids gone. But, no. This is what I need. To feel these things, to look within. It's hard.
One of the things that I need to change is my disorganization. So, I've been purging my office. That has been giving me time to think...and worry. No more wasted worry today!
It is important to focus on the good parts of us too. We did not get into this alone. But the only thing that I an effect change in, is myself. It feels painfully slow at times, but I have hope.
Labug, awesome stuff as usual!
Thanks, I'm glad it was helpful.
"Sometime in the future your baths might intersect" your baths might intersect but I meant paths.
Thanks, labug & Tallula & PoN,
Very thoughtful post labug. I appreciate you taking the time to really read and understand my sitch.
You are right that H and I are on different paths right now. And, who knows if they will ever converge again.
I do feel like I've changed over the past 8 months (since BD). I still have a long way to go though. Some parts of me are missing-like the strong, "gritty" me that was very much a part of who I was. I don't like that I feel weak and emotionally vulnerable so much. I don't like how I have to constantly question what I'm going to say to H and how I'm going to say it.
I know I am failing miserably in the GAL department. I will do better with this over time. My GALs mostly revolve around my boys. By choice. I know I need to start doing more things for me.
Some GALs- I did go out to bookstore on Saturday just to get a coffee and read by myself. Enjoyed myself a lot. Then GF came over to my house for a drink Sat night & to chat. Also, going to spend the whole day w FIL (on Wednesday)who is coming home from the hospital tomorrow.
PoN, how am I catering to him? Because I allow him to come to the house to see the boys? B/c I choose not to have boys go to his apartment (except one night)? I ask not to defend myself, b/c I truly am not see what I'm doing that I should not be doing!
I do feel like I've changed over the past 8 months (since BD). I still have a long way to go though. Some parts of me are missing-like the strong, "gritty" me that was very much a part of who I was.
I'm sure she didn't go far. Call her back.
I don't like that I feel weak and emotionally vulnerable so much. I don't like how I have to constantly question what I'm going to say to H and how I'm going to say it.
Thinking about our words is a way of being we all should have learned as children but most of us didn't. For many of us it's our lack of thinking and poor choice or words that got us here. sigh
So look at this as a master class in self-expression, something that will pay off greatly for the rest of your life. Think how lucky your boys are that they get the benefit of your new communication skills. And they can learn from you.
It's OK if you don't have an answer to tell H that you need time to think and will get back to him.
I addressed this a bit to you on my thread, but in order to be friends with H, I have found that two things must occur:
You have to be happy where you are. Oh, I am not saying that everyday is a wonderful Disney kind of day, but that you have to have your own life (This is where the GAL comes in...you have to get out even if just for a movie by yourself in the afternoon when H comes). Take a free class in something, anything. Check the Groupons etc for good prices and deals in your area. Try something once just to see...this is key. The more you isolate yourself, the harder it is to see your own worth Turtle. Once you are good with you, you can accept that being friends may never result in the R you want. That any expectation is going to kill you and you have to be in the spot where if nothing happens with H, you go on with your life because it is full and rewarding already
The second thing is that H must also want to be friends, but he must also realize that your expectations are none. As you have already posted, H is being stand offish because he doesn't want to raise your hopes. So when you have your own life and you are carrying on and you seem happy and are doing your thing, he will cautiously throw a friendly something out there and you respond in kind. Even if a phone call where he starts to talk about other things, you can be supportive and friendly and then say "Gotta go, have to go to store, gym, lunch, etc" and it was great to talk to you. Talk to you later (smile smile smile upbeat),
My H constantly wonders how he left and I got happy...lol! I acted as if for the longest time and then I realized, I was pretty freaking happy. And am happy that he is getting to a good place as well, even if he needs someone else to do it with.
Good call on H and kids at his place. I would let them go more often. And don't be home when they are at H's...go out, have some fun, wander around, do something that looks interesting but never thought you would do. Sometimes I compliment total strangers on their hair, look etc. I asked the barista at Starbucks if I could make my own latte (sadly no
). But he gave me great advice on karaoke...lol. Put yourself out there just a little. You can make someone's, or your day by giving a small compliment or getting out of your comfort zone. Try it!
Little you have some great advice and posters on this thread. (not referencing me either, I am no expert but have been through some of this)
Little read inside out ^^ read it again. Pretty good
I am saying catering. Maybe poor choice of words by my part. You are walking on eggshells and living a life out of fear. You fear the words you choose will push him away (he's gone for now)
You don't tell him where you are going (gal) it makes him curious or upset and you worry about it. Who cares. He is cheating on you plain and simple. How long have you consistantly stuck to a plan. Not 1 week. I mean 4-6 weeks. You don't have to be COLD but he doesn't have to know your GAL plans does he? Do you ask him where he is going with OW?
What inside out does above is what EE is all about. Complimenting on hair and making own Latte.
I was stuck like you for a long time. Guess what GAL is forever and when times are good. The first thing I stop doing when things get good is GAL and have to often remind myself to do it. So I completely understand how tough it is but so vital for you to do to get through this. DO IT, and don't worry about what he thinks
Mr. B use to always say to me "you allow yourself to walk on eggshells" and he was so right. I was always worried about my actions and what they did to my W. You need to get over that.
I know what you're going through. If I say this then he'll think what. Did I piss him off.
You really should sit down and setup a parenting schedule to allow yourself to have some time to GAL and heal. Great job allowing kids to go over there but you need to have a parenting schedule. GIVE UP CONTROL (for now)
I know not seeing kids [censored] but you didn't choose this but doesn't mean you can control them staying there etc.. come up with a set parenting schedule that gives you time to yourself too.
This was always a struggle with my W. Bottom line the kids are 50% both of yours. So he should see them half the time and help 50% of the time if he is willing.
Saying to yourself well I didn't want this is acting like a victim. I've read you say that somewhere. Those kids need to be with Dad just as much as you right now. Please don't say it is bouncing them around and disrupting their schedule. That is what my W use to say and it is the furthest thing from the truth.
I SUGGEST you BOTH read "Dad's house, mom's house" on separation and D. I read it and I lived under same roof. You read it first.
http://www.amazon.com/Moms-House-Dads-Ma...ouse+moms+houseThe only thing that will ever pull your H back is you pulling away more. And when he shows signs of pulling closer you pull away even more. You don't need to be COLD in these actions. Do it with a smile on your face.
You can answer him on your GAL by saying "I'm going out with some friends" Do you really owe him these answers? Or not telling him at all that you're Gal'n. Going out when he has the kids
I'm trying to help you. I care about your SITCH. Take care of yourself and try not to worry about what H thinks. You don't have to agree with everything I post. Only you know your sitch at 100%.
I didn't take the advice of every post on here to recover my M. But I did use a lot of it.
I also found myself venting on here a lot and it was misconstrued on how I was acting in front of W. I had a quiet tongue in front of my W for a very long time.
PON
I love what inside out and power of now wrote.
It is hard! To really detach and not overthink things you say. Labug is right, we got here by NOT thinking about what we were saying. But, the difference now is to not care how they react to what we do say. Like here is a great example. I've been really working on listening to my H. I tend to interupt, so now I really listen and don't say anything until I know he is done. Yesterday he told me that now sometimes when we talk, it seems like I'm not listening. I said, "well, I'm really listening and so I'm not interupting you and making sure you are done. If you feel this way in a conversation, can you let me know?" He got mad and said "NO! I'm not going to let you know." I simply said ok. Then he made a coment about how I seem distant because I don't text as much. But then I talk too much. But not enough...I'm being distant. This was in a 5 minute conversation. If I let this fester in my brain, I will be unable to move. I did let it fester a bit. The bottom line? Right now my H is a mess. Everything I do one minute has him wanting to move back in, 2 days later...he never misses me and we fight all the time. An hour later he texted me that I'm an amazing wife and mother. Yeah, if I take all this to heart and let fear take over, I'll be insane.
Work on you. Pull back. You are human. We will make mistakes. But, if you are truly working on you, then you are being you. You are enough. You are great!! If your H doesn't like that YOU, it's his los. But right now, this isn't YOU! You aren't allowing yourself to be you. Like MWD says, this isn't the real you. My sobbing mess of a self yesterday IS NOT THE REAL ME!! So, if I can only act happy around my H for 10 minutes, by God I will only be around him 10 minutes. I need to be honest with myself in the moment. You can do this!
GTO, you've been given great advice. I loved Ruby's post. You're getting there. All you have to do is be more aware of your progress.
1. You know the 180's you need to put in practice--great job!
2. You are starting to GAL.
3. You are aware of your feelings.
4. You sound more at peace.
Keep the great work going, and continue posting. Even if I can't post as often as I used to, I always think of you!
GTO how are you today? Xxx
Ruby's post was very insightful. We can all learn something from it. About the importance of acting as if and GALing.
GTO what we are going through is possibly the hardest period of our lives - and we can CHOOSE how to respond and not be victims of our own blessed lives. And they are blessed. With children, family, friends and ourselves. I recently heard this:
Train yourself to let go of everything you fear to lose
I have been thinking about this and i think it's exactly what we need to do.
Am with you GTO ... Come let's sit on the blanket x
Wow! I feel so loved on here! Thanks, ruby, labug, Tallula, PoN, Tori & bustin'!
ruby- Your advice really resonates for me. I do wonder if/when I could possibly be friends w H. But, based on your conditions I'M not ready just yet. His words can still pierce me.
For instance tonight he came over late (as he brought his dad home from the hospital) and he said he received a text he thought wasn't meant for him originally but then realized it was from one of my brothers. He asked if I wanted to read it which I did.
I can't repeat what it said here as my brother was basically calling him out for abandoning his family and refusing to "let me move on." I asked him if that was true- Had he moved on? He said, "I guess so, emotionally."
I have to stop asking questions that I don't want the answer to. (Not that I have done that much.)
I didn't respond, as I was afraid of what I might say, so I just said nothing. Conversation shifted, but after he left I feel to pieces about what he said.
PoN, thanks for clarifying what you meant. I understand what I NEED to do. And, I understand WHY I need to do what you've said.
Am going to my first "meet-up" w complete strangers to play indoor tennis Sat night. I told H I was going out & said that if he wanted to have the boys to sleepover he was welcome to.
He proceeded to aske what my plans were. Since last time he asked about my "secret plans" he got so upset I thought I'd try a different strategy to gauge his reaction (okay, I know I'm not suppose to care what his reaction is at all).
So, I told him what I was doing. He was a bit shocked, I think. He said, "You have some balls for going out to meet a bunch of people you don't even know. You'd better be ready to get attention you might not be looking for."
He called later to apologize to me (wow, a first) about a comment he had made about me not overseeing something one of the boys was supposed to do this morning & that I had said calmly "I'm doing the best that I can & I don't think you have any right to criticize."
He also said something again about the outing on Saturday but it was more on the lines of "I'm glad you are reaching out to connect w old friends and meet some new people." It sounded sincere....which for me hurt b/c it was like hearing "I don't give a $hit if you go out & meet some new guys. It will make me feel better."
Ahhhhhhhhhh!!! I know, detach, detach, detach!
Coming to the blanket, bustin!
He proceeded to aske what my plans were. Since last time he asked about my "secret plans" he got so upset I thought I'd try a different strategy to gauge his reaction (okay, I know I'm not suppose to care what his reaction is at all).
So, I told him what I was doing. He was a bit shocked, I think. He said, "You have some balls for going out to meet a bunch of people you don't even know. You'd better be ready to get attention you might not be looking for."
He also said something again about the outing on Saturday but it was more on the lines of "I'm glad you are reaching out to connect w old friends and meet some new people." It sounded sincere....which for me hurt b/c it was like hearing "I don't give a $hit if you go out & meet some new guys. It will make me feel better."
Coming to the blanket, bustin!
BINGO- is what H says all the time. Did you meet anyone, etc etc.
Basically they are looking to alleviate the guilt they feel and then can be justified in their decisions (because look at you moving on, I knew you didn't want me).
Also H tends to fish about anyone who shows interest-much like yours tends to get mad at secret plans.
When he asks about tennis say you had a great time (big smile) chances are he will ask if you met new people (as a segue into "any men"). My response(to questions about new GALs) is always "Yes and the people are great, I learned so much" or "I felt a little out of practice..lol" or anything like that. But is always "Had fabulous time..."
The line about Saturday, I like to use "Me too"
Have you read any of PON's old threads? It might be helpful for you to see what he's talking about.
Ruby gives you some good suggestions on how to handle it.
I am hoping you did not put your brother up to that text. I know I sure did silly things like that. That is controlling and manipulative and not working on yourself. I would ask your family to stay out of your private personal matters. If you want to continue to push him further away continue to allow that stuff to happen. Trust me on that.
As far as your secret plans only you know your sitch and what is working.
As far as the apology you probably should have just ack'd it and left it at that. Thanks, I am doing the best I can. The last part you threw it in his face a little.
You are projecting and overanalyzing this below.
Sounds like this is a 180 for you below and he is ack'ing it. Good. 95% of your anxiety thoughts are wrong. You here that. 95% of your anxiety ridden thoughts are wrong. I struggle with that still. But in the end during my entire sitch I was always wrong. I remember one incident she wrote an address on the fridge whiteboard. I thought it was apartment for her to move out with kids. I google'd the piss out of it. call my real estate agent. Went crazy. It ended up being a craigslist address to pick up a doll for my daughter.
"He also said something again about the outing on Saturday but it was more on the lines of "I'm glad you are reaching out to connect w old friends and meet some new people." It sounded sincere....which for me hurt b/c it was like hearing "I don't give a $hit if you go out & meet some new guys. It will make me feel better."
GTO, I think I found a way we can meet sometime. I belong to the same meetup group that plays tennis on Sat. Maybe I'll show up to tennis one of these days. Let me know if the group is fun.
Be careful with the mind reading...I think you do too much of it.
((((((((GTO)))))))))
Thanks again, ruby, labug, PoN and Tori! You guys are the best!
Please don't give up on me b/c I am a bit s-l-o-w at some of this. It's not b/c I don't understand it. It's b/c I'm really trying hard to undo years of bad habits/ practiced strategies.
I am very much an emotional person. I am working on processing my emotions before reacting to them. I am doing better.
Yeah, Tori!!!! I do hope we can meet in person! I love tennis, but haven't played in a long time, so I hope I don't let my partners down on Saturday.
PoN, I DID NOT put my brother up to this at all! In fact I was quite shocked that he sent this. It has been since December that I talked to him but I did talk to my mom recently about H wanting to divide up finances b/c I knew she would be a good resource to make sure I protect myself and my boys.
My B got pi$$ed that H wanted to do this as he sees this as a big step to the end (and I wonder the same), and he thinks H is stringing me along (why doesn't he end it, he thinks).
I will talk to him about not interferring any more. I realized what a set-back this could be.
You all are right about me doing too much mind-reading. I realize this is not helpful or productive to focusing on myself and detaching.
ruby, I will take your advice about how to respond about my Sat night when H asks! Thanks!
On another note---The baby kittens are ready for adoption!! The boys and I may go to visit them tomorrow and pick one out, then go back on Saturday to take her home (as I don't want to get a kitten on a weeknight only to abandon her for the entire next two days!) Any name suggestions?? Looking for a girl's!
Oh, and taking the day off of work to visit my FIL and my SIL (as my FIL had brain surgery on Friday last week but is now home recovering). My SIL is waiting for results from various tests to see what kind of chemo she will receive in a couple of weeks.
I feel great to be able to spend a little time w them alone tomorrow. I have gotten a lot closer to both of them since my MIL was sick/passed away last summer.
I know that they will always be very important people in my life, no matter what happens to my M.
YAY! Kittens!!!!! Cleo for the girl?
Glad you are staying friends with the people that matter to you
Remember to practice the "me too" so it comes out with a sense of honesty and conviction. It won't be a lie, you will be happy, you just dont know it yet!!
Thanks, ruby!
ME TOO! Me too. ME toooooo! me too. MEEEE TOOOOO! Me to.
GTO, you sound so much more positive. That's great! The tennis, the kittens, going out with people who care about you...These are all great things!
You sound really good, GTO!!!
Yippee for the kitty!
GOt out kitten last night! No name yet... the boys can't agree. The shelter named her Akela so that may stick if we can't agree in the very near future!
She is black and white and VERY friendly. Purrs all the time! I stayed home from work to kitty-sit today as I felt bad to leave here the first whole day home. AND, I didn't get a lot of sleep as I kept her in my room & she was up and down like a newborn!
Tennis was cancelled AGAIN! Boo. I think I might just go out and pretend I'm going to this meetup and then go a movie or something by myself. I haven't been to the movies for a long time (except for kids' movies, of course).
Spent the whole day w my FIL yesterday as he can't drive due to his recent surgery. We laughed and we cried...we've both lost someone dear to our hearts. He basically encouraged me to move on as his son doesn't give him any hope that he has any intentions of R.
He used the "D" word a lot which hurts my heart to hear (as H has yet to ask for a D directly).
The past two days have done my PMA a lot of good!
I hope it will continue as the weather turns warmer (I can't wait for Spring to come)!
Oh, and a friend of a friend owns a bike shop and he is going to custom build me a great road bike for a lot less than I would pay for a new one "out of the box." I am excited about this too.
And, one more thing--I am 1/2 way to my charity goal for the cancer bike event I am riding in this summer--yeah!!!
God is with me every step of the way! I can't wait to see what he has in store for me!!
GOt out kitten last night! No name yet... the boys can't agree. The shelter named her Akela so that may stick if we can't agree in the very near future!
She is black and white and VERY friendly. Purrs all the time! I stayed home from work to kitty-sit today as I felt bad to leave here the first whole day home. AND, I didn't get a lot of sleep as I kept her in my room & she was up and down like a newborn!
Tennis was cancelled AGAIN! Boo. I think I might just go out and pretend I'm going to this meetup and then go a movie or something by myself. I haven't been to the movies for a long time (except for kids' movies, of course).
Spent the whole day w my FIL yesterday as he can't drive due to his recent surgery. We laughed and we cried...we've both lost someone dear to our hearts. He basically encouraged me to move on as his son doesn't give him any hope that he has any intentions of R.
He used the "D" word a lot which hurts my heart to hear (as H has yet to ask for a D directly).
The past two days have done my PMA a lot of good!
I hope it will continue as the weather turns warmer (I can't wait for Spring to come)!
Oh, and a friend of a friend owns a bike shop and he is going to custom build me a great road bike for a lot less than I would pay for a new one "out of the box." I am excited about this too.
And, one more thing--I am 1/2 way to my charity goal for the cancer bike event I am riding in this summer--yeah!!!
God is with me every step of the way! I can't wait to see what he has in store for me!!
GTO, you continue sounding very positive. Good for you!
Yes, do something for you on Saturday. Go see a movie, or go shopping, or whatever brings you joy.
I also hated hearing the word divorce. It still hurts to hear it. But as Wayne Dyer says, you can't get wet from the word water. It's just a word.
Great job on raising money for the event. I also love biking.
God is with you right now, and what you desire is on its way.
Hey little just here to sey I'm sorry if offended u in the past. I am working through my own stuff.,I'm sorry
Thanks, Rick. I accept.
I like that quote "you can't get wet..." Applies to so many things in our lives,
turtle, take Tori up on the hiking. Even if it is not so etching you would do what a great opportunity to meet new people and try something new!!!!
You sound GOOD!
I think I've heard the D word more than I said the F word in the last 3 years. Its a word. It's a way for them to control you. Let it go
It's funny that you say that...my H has not actually said the D word to me in terms of wanting a D.
He's said things like, "I wonder why people get D?" "Did you know so-and-so are getting D?" "Hey, guess who I ran into today- he got D."
But, I think he's throwing that word around to his dad as when I met w FIL on Wed his dad said something like, "Your H told me not to spend the day talking about D." I was a little taken aback, since he has not talked about that w me.
I guess it's an inevitable possibility so I mustn't let the word define me or my path. You're right.
I did go out w some co-workers after work today. TGIF. It was not to get out w people who don't all know the nuts & bolts of my life & NOT talk about my sitch.
Kitty is keeping us pretty busy & distracted in a happy way at home. She is such a cuddler! She has slept right beside me the past two nights! Not exactly the "wow" factor of a good man but she'll do for now!
...still no agree-upon name.
S13's bday is Monday so we will laser tag on Sunday & maybe go out to dinner w him. I'm hoping H will NOT be part of the plans, but we'll see. No extended family party as H's family are all battling their health issues and my family lives far away.
Took down more pictures of H in the house. Just feels like what I need to do. He either hasn't noticed or commented.
oops -It was NICE to get out...
GTO, take the pictures down for you, but not for your H to notice. If you like the pictures, keep them out.
Too bad I'm so allergic to cats. Otherwise it would've been fun to see the kitten.
Happy birthday to your son! I hope Sunday is fun!
I am in a very, very low place right now. I've been here before and know it will pass, but I can't stop crying.
I'm having a hard time accepting what is.
I forced myself to go out alone to a movie tonight. That was fine & I was okay there. However, I lied to my H and told him I was going out w a meetup group to socialize ...invented a story that the tennis group that I was going to meet w decided to just make it a social since courts weren't available.
He questioned me about how I came upon "this group." Told him I googled a sports and fitness group to meet up w and came upon this one & found one of there events was to play indoor tennis (all true).
He noticed I had taken off all 3 rings he'd had given me on my right hand & before I left said "your rings are on the counter if you want them." Interesting.
He also clearly made a "sound" which I interpreted as "you aren't going out looking like that!" when I came downstairs. Of course he said nothing.
I told him I would be home at bedtime for the boys so he didn't have to stay late and so they didn't need to sleepover at his aptmt. My movie was later than I thought so I texted him at 10 and asked him if he minded if he put the boys to bed and I would be home at 11.
"Yes, he would mind," he said. So I texted him back saying, "No problem, just thought I would ask."
When I got home he was obviously upset (again) and then we got into things about the day. This included a last minute change in S13's birthday plans to do lasertag & dinner today, which I invited H to come (last minute,I'll admit). He commented on how he felt he should have been called about the switch in plans earlier. I said we just decided before S9's basketball game which is when I told you and invited you.
We got into this 10 minute discussion/argument about the boys and when/where he gets to spend "quality time" w them. I told him I didn't really want to be around him when he's here (at the house) but that I still feel strongly about boys having one home. Without going into it all here...he left in a huff.
But, he called me on his way back to his apartment and said he didn't want us to get into arguments where the boys were concerned as we were never ones to fight/argue so why start now.
He said maybe we can find time to talk tomorrow about the weekend time w the boys.
I am crying b/c of where we are at and the fact that it comes back to the reality that I know I can't be w my boys all the time any more. But, I can't seem to let this go!
And, also my H said on the phone how "proud" he is that I'm "getting out there and meeting new people" which is what he thought I was doing tonight, but wasn't. It was like he's cheering me on to move on w my life so he can move on w his.
Can't stop crying. It just hurts sooooooo much!!!
Big hugs!! This stuff is so hard.
Time without your kids is hard. Bottom line. When I get down about it, like today when my niece was saying her ABCs and I had to leave the room because D2 & she ate the same age & she kept asking for her, I told myself "do you want to be better, or bitter!?!" it's my mantra now.
We've been dealt a crappy hand. Sob!cry! Feel it!! But know that this won't break you. You will not feel this way forever!!!
GTO, this is another opportunity to pick yourself back up and take action. Find a new activity to do for you. Don't wallow in the negative emotions. There is so much I'd like to tell you, and wish my book was ready NOW so you could read it! But for now, don't resist the pain. Let it be. Then, take some positive action today. The boys are your children regardless of how much time you spend with them.
Hang in there!
((((((GTO))))))))
This too shall pass. Please try (I know it is hard), like Tori said, to let yourself feel your emotions and let them go through you. Accept that you feel low, cry it out and then continue doing what YOU need to do to get your PMA back. All of this is so hard. Know that and keep fighting the good fight. You can do this.
Can we take something positive out of this maybe? I was thinking that this doesn't seem so negative...
he didn't want us to get into arguments where the boys were concerned as we were never ones to fight/argue so why start now.
If you can work as partners with regards to the boys, that seems to be a very positive step for where things are right now.
Hang on there GTO. You are not alone.
Hang on there, GTO. I know it feels when your WAS tells you that he is happy about you meeting new people and going out. My H told me that I would have no problems finding a new partner. He also told our friends that he was glad that I was making new friends. But then I learnt from the same friends (female) that he made a comment which made me think that he was a bit upset that I was going out.
Recently I’ve been thinking about this a lot. It seems to be a pattern here on the board when WAS wants LBS to start going out and dating. Part of it could the guilt. But, in my case, I’m not sure if my H feels the guilt. We don’t have kids at home (my son is 25), and I was not begging and crying, so he probably had no idea that I was quite a mess for the first few months. I remember times when I split up with my first XH. He cheated, so I kicked him out. After a while he was asking to come back, but I was already over him, and I remember I was care less if he dated anybody or not. So, I’m thinking why my current H is pushing me to get on with my life. If he is not in love with me, then why would he care? I think it might showed in my attitude (vibe) that I was still holing a hope for us to get back together, this is why he was saying this.
GTO, I think your H also feels that you are trying to save your M with him, so he is pushing you away. I bet as soon as he feels a change in your attitude, he will not be saying these words anymore. I know it is very hard to let go, but it seems to be the only chance to turn the dynamics in your favor. Try to think about all the positives you have in your life, and try not think about what your H is doing or saying. I hope you feel better. Hugs!
Thanks, Tallula, ruby, PoN, Tori, BF and bustin,
I appreciate all of you coming to my rescue to give me some good words of wisdom in my moments of misery last night.
Today was better although I was still a bit teary-eyed during church this morning.
H called before he came over today which is new. He asked when would be okay for him to come. He wanted to know if he should come when I was ready to leave to do grocery shopping/go to the gym, as I told him last night I was not comfortable being around him when he was here.
I told him I did not communicate what I meant using the right words--I am comfortable around him--in fact it sometimes seems oddly normal when he's here, but it gives me mixed feelings when I know things are anything but normal. He said he understood.
I apologized for changing S13's bday plans last minute w/o consulting him as if roles were reversed I definitely would have been upset. He said he wants us ALWAYS (there's that word I hate) to be able to do what's best for the boys & to be together for important events.
I bit my tongue as I know this probably won't be possible, AND he is NOT putting the boys interests first by doing what he is doing!
Anyway I tried to be upbeat around him today and we got along fine for the time we were together here.
Again, I took off one of my rings and he pointed out that if I wanted it, here it was! (He knows I value the sentimentally of my rings immensely, but I don't know why he points out where they are if I happen to take them off & he noticed them. Oh,well.)
Our new kitty has a name (finally)! It is Lulu!
She is an absolute sweety. Last night after my crying marathon she cuddles up right on my pillow by my face and her little purring motor put me to sleep! She is a little gift from God!
"I forced myself to go out alone to a movie tonight. That was fine & I was okay there. However, I lied to my H and told him I was going out w a meetup group to socialize ...invented a story that the tennis group that I was going to meet w decided to just make it a social since courts weren't available."
I don't see a problem with this. It is GAL. In the future you don't owe him wear you are going. But do you see that this makes him curious. That getting on with your life makes him curious. GAL and acting as if makes him curious.
"He questioned me about how I came upon "this group." Told him I googled a sports and fitness group to meet up w and came upon this one & found one of there events was to play indoor tennis (all true)."
Again making him curious. Still none of his business. Did he question you or ask you a question.
"He noticed I had taken off all 3 rings he'd had given me on my right hand & before I left said "your rings are on the counter if you want them." Interesting."
That is interesting. Could have said thanks and walked out. You are taking rings off for you. Not for him. Not to spite him. I wore my rings through entire separation. Even after wife took hers off and told me to date other women.
"He also clearly made a "sound" which I interpreted as "you aren't going out looking like that!" when I came downstairs. Of course he said nothing."
analyzing, projecting, mind reading
"I told him I would be home at bedtime for the boys so he didn't have to stay late and so they didn't need to sleepover at his aptmt. My movie was later than I thought so I texted him at 10 and asked him if he minded if he put the boys to bed and I would be home at 11. "Yes, he would mind," he said. So I texted him back saying, "No problem, just thought I would ask."
You handled this perfectly
"When I got home he was obviously upset (again) and then we got into things about the day. This included a last minute change in S13's birthday plans to do lasertag & dinner today, which I invited H to come (last minute,I'll admit). He commented on how he felt he should have been called about the switch in plans earlier. I said we just decided before S9's basketball game which is when I told you and invited you. We got into this 10 minute discussion/argument about the boys and when/where he gets to spend "quality time" w them. I told him I didn't really want to be around him when he's here (at the house) but that I still feel strongly about boys having one home. Without going into it all here...he left in a huff.But, he called me on his way back to his apartment and said he didn't want us to get into arguments where the boys were concerned as we were never ones to fight/argue so why start now. He said maybe we can find time to talk tomorrow about the weekend time w the boys. "
Sounds like you handled this a mature level. Try not to do things out of spite. Last second changes. I know you did not wish for this situation. But the kids are first.
"I am crying b/c of where we are at and the fact that it comes back to the reality that I know I can't be w my boys all the time any more. But, I can't seem to let this go! "
This is tough. When you are with them you make every second count.
"And, also my H said on the phone how "proud" he is that I'm "getting out there and meeting new people" which is what he thought I was doing tonight, but wasn't. It was like he's cheering me on to move on w my life so he can move on w his."
analyzing, projecting, mind reading
My wife waited for a counseling session (safe place) to tell me she wanted a divorce and she would feel better if I started to date other people. (alleviate her guilt of breaking up feeling)
It crushed me. Please do not get hung up on his words. It is scripted ok.
"Can't stop crying. It just hurts sooooooo much!!!"
You cry as much as you need. You start getting support from other people outside of family members and friends. I suggest joining a church group. How was your upbringing? did you grow up in a dysfunctional home. What are your goals? How about not posting anything about your H for 1 week on here. Only post stuff about what you are doing for you. What are your 180's? Name 3 and what are you doing to implement them. You are doing these for you not to win your H back.
What can you do to continue to take the focus of your H and put the focus on you
Hang in there.
PON
god I hate you can't edit.
*where you are going.
better if I started to date other people. (alleviate her guilt of breaking up *family)
Thanks, PoN, for taking the time to post in such detail to my thread. I appreciate the feedback.
Okay, one week, no talk on here about H. I can do it!
Upcoming GALs--going to a "new school" meeting for S11 tomorrow w a friend. Thursday either IC OR meeting w friend at her house for drinks after work. And, Saturday night indoor tennis (third time's a charm?). Oh, and all 3 boys have bball games on Sat. which is always fun.
Oh, and boys will probably spend the night (Sat) w their dad (2nd time for S9/S14 and 1st times for S11).
My upbringing was an intact family, fairly traditional in a lot of ways, although no extended family nearly (as neither do I).
PoN, I love rings. I wear 5 different rings my H has given me over the years. I still wear all 5 every day. Recently I have taken them off at the house to put on lotion and "accidently" leave them laying around (just to let myself see how I feel about this). I have never taken off my wedding ring (yet), nor do I intend to until/unless we D.
Goals- keep in great shape. Think before responding. Be grateful and appreciate (say thank you). Don't try to control what is not within my control. Detaching. Rediscovering what makes me happy. Acceptance of what its and living in the moment. Finding joy in every day and counting my blessings every day. Thanking God & putting 100% trust in Him.
I am thinking about attending a women's all day retreat next Saturday at a nearby church. Not sure if it's what I want to do or not, but thinking it might be good for me.
Lovin' our new little kitten. So snuggly. A great therapy pet!
Kittens are wonderful
Woman's retreats ROCK!!! GO!!
I usually go to a silent woman's week long retreat each year, but I have a work conference this year. Boo!
Great GALS and goals, lady!
I HIGHLY RECOMMEND YOU GOING ON THE RETREAT. I THINK YOU WOULD BE A FOOL NOT TOO. CONNECTING WITH PEOPLE THIS WAY IS VITAL. THIS IS ANOTHER WAY OF GETTING UNBIASED SUPPORT WHICH IS CRITICAL. ALL CAPS MEANS I'M SHOUTING AT YOU
^^^This made me LMAO and shout "TRU DAT!"
PoN, does that shouting mean you care enough to yell at me--aw, shucks. Thanks!
I'd like to go to the retreat, but it might mean missing my boys' playoff bball games & I really don't want to miss those. I'll really have to think about this one.
The new school mtg for S11 went very well. It is a lottery & we'll have to wait and see sometime in April if he'll get in. I'm in the frame of mind that if it's meant to be it'll happen, if not then it wasn't meant to be. No expectations.
Am going to my IC tomorrow instead of GF's house for drinks. I think I made the wrong choice on that one. I know I need to GAL so that would have been a good opportunity, but I don't really want to miss a C apptmt right now either.
Promised I wouldn't talk about H. I have been sleeping better that last month, but the past few nights I've woken up in the middle of the night & just broke out in tears. Then had a hard time going back to sleep. Reminded me of all those sleepless, horrible night I hope never to have return.
Am thinking a lot of my H's family, as there has been a lot of really horrible life issues/health issues this yea. My SIL starts chemo on Tuesday (breast cancer). She is one of the strongest women I've ever met (except my mom) & I know she'll get through this like a champ, but I just feel awful that she is going through this. Has to have a complete masectomy after chemo too. Ugly disease.
So glad I am raising money for my summer bike ride to benefit cancer survivors and their families. Makes me feel good to be doing something positive for others out there dealing with the same thing.
GTO, you're dealing with your sitch in a more positive way. If you don't want to miss the playoffs, then skip the retreat. There are other ways to be involved. Do what feels right to you.
The sleepless nights/nightmares are really hard. I know firsthand. But they'll lessen as time goes by. Continue connecting to other people, and to God.
((((((((((((((((())))))))))))))))))
Thanks, Tori!
I had an IC session today. I wasn't sure what I wanted to focus on, but it seems when I get there it all poors out.
Basically after I talked & cried for 1/2 hr, my C said she sees that I have more to a "new place." That I am really starting to grieve the ending of my M. Not sure what all the months prior to today I was crying about....?
But, I think she is right. Not only do I feel more emotional lately, I feel different. Like there is really no going back. The past is over, and our M is too. I don't even know where I stand any more. I know my hope is really about nill. And, I also know I wouldn't accept H back w/out A LOT of changes.
SO, not sure where that leaves me. Moving forward, slowly, I guess. Grieving and allowing myself to feel all the emotions that come to me.
I just have never been here. What do you do to move on from a 20-year relationship? When you share 3 growing boys to co-parent. When there is an OW in the picture. When H is not the person I've known all these years. I just don't know.
But, I know I WILL get through this! And, I have a tremendous support group. I have 3 beautiful boys (and a very sweet little kitty).
Looking forward to this new meetup tennis group Sat night. Not looking forward to boys all sleeping over at H's aptmt and waking up to an empty house (except little Lulu!).
if you want to goto the playoffs then go! Kids first was my always my rule
FYI. I left 5 counselors who all told me to leave my W! One C handed me a card for a local L. I told her she was crazy and wasn't pro marriage. I actually told another C she wasn't pro marriage and it really hit her hard. I actually told a guy I met at EE about MWD work and to read up on it. He is a big MC in NYC.
YOU DON'T KNOW IF YOUR M IS OVER. You are not a fortune teller. So stop trying to be one.
You need to live in the moment. POWER OF NOW. Eckhart Tolle. Hence my handle. Bond told me to change my handle id from something negative to something positive and I'm glad I did.
Start living in the moment. Your C is going to tell you what you want to hear especially if you are feeding her negative stuff. TRUST me. Your C should be helping you focus on yourself and if she is talking and/or encouraging D I would run very far and fast.
GOOGLE: Law of Attractions. Cliff notes:
If you think you will be D'd you will be D'd.
If you think you will be broke, you will be broke.
If you think you will have cancer, you will have cancer.
Did you know that the majority of cancer is from holding onto the past and holding onto hurt. Your mind heals if you let it.
You should be meditating and/or doing yoga. You need to move the negative blocked CHI in your system.
Do you know what happens when your body runs out of chi??
DEATH.
Start being positive. Starting living more in the moment. Focus only on you and the kids. Detach in a loving manner. GAL helps you detach
Keep your head up. You are a STRONG lady. Stronger then me
PON~
POW, thank you for your positive attitude! I needed this today, had a similar experience with my IC yesterday too. Stop being a fortune teller - man that's hard for me too.
GTO, I have these moments of no hope too. I’m almost in NC. Sometimes it feels that my M is over, sometimes I think this is just temporary misunderstanding. My emotions are all still over. But, it gets better with time.
I agree with PowerOfNow, “start living in the moment”. Take one day at a time. I want to try one of these meetup groups too. I’m thinking dance, or hiking.
Like there is really no going back. The past is over, and our M is too.
Yes. You shouldn't strive to go back to your old M. Your H doesn't want that and you shouldn't either. The past is over. Your M is over. That doesn't mean you can't have a new M with your H though.
I know my hope is really about nill. And, I also know I wouldn't accept H back w/out A LOT of changes.
I know what you mean, I've pretty much lost hope as well. 9 months in and W's fortress walls are as tall, intimidating and strong as ever. I know reconcilations have happened after longer periods of time, but the reality is the odds are so low. As many say around here, there's hope for as long as we care to hold it in our hearts. But for me, holding onto hope when the chances of reconciliation are so tiny makes it seem like I'm just unnecessarily extending the pain and discomfort of my sitch. I've never been a gambler, so the idea of putting my life on hold for, say a 5% chance of reconciliation just seems like a waste of what little time I have left on earth. I'd rather get busy living my new life.
SO, not sure where that leaves me. Moving forward, slowly, I guess. Grieving and allowing myself to feel all the emotions that come to me.
And that's a healthy place to be. Because you DO need to grieve, and getting through that process will lead to your "new normal" and your desire to GAL truly for yourself.
I just have never been here. What do you do to move on from a 20-year relationship? When you share 3 growing boys to co-parent. When there is an OW in the picture. When H is not the person I've known all these years. I just don't know.
As you know our sitches are so similar! I think first I had to accept that the W I fell in love with and spent 25 years with was gone. Then I had to decide if the person she had become was someone I even wanted to be married to. What I asked myself is this- if I was single and met this woman, what would I think about her? Would I want to pursue her? Strangely the answer is no, I wouldn't even be interested. But, she's not a stranger, she's mom to my kids and so that raises her above the rest of the field by default. So then I had to ask myself, am I willing to be in a R with this woman, someone I wouldn't normally pursue, just because she's mom to my kids? Now THAT is a tough question. Basically am I willing to be married to someone I love but am not in love with just to keep from breaking up the family? Should I sacrifice the possibility of finding true love for that? To be honest it's a question I haven't felt inclined to spend a lot of time on because I don't expect W to change her mind anyway.
Looking forward to this new meetup tennis group Sat night. Not looking forward to boys all sleeping over at H's aptmt and waking up to an empty house (except little Lulu!).
That was the hardest part for me too. My little long-haired mini dachsund was my companion through many of those lonely nights, she really helped me through some tough times! She is just the sweetest little thing and always likes to be right by my side. She made me feel like I wasn't alone.
Then I had to decide if the person she had become was someone I even wanted to be married to. What I asked myself is this- if I was single and met this woman, what would I think about her? Would I want to pursue her? Strangely the answer is no,
GTO, you've received great advice. I agree with PoN that IC tend to want you to "move on." I remember spending hours at my IC's and MC's office crying and feeling worse about myself. They would all say the same thing: "you're starting to grieve, blah blah." That's what they're taught to do in school. But what is it that you really feel?
As long as you are willing to be patient, choose to think you will save your M.
I quoted AS because I felt (and feel) exactly the same way. If my H were a stranger, I would never--NEVER--be interested in having a R with him, esp after all the lies and betrayal. I stayed with him bc I loved him and he was my H. Now that we're going through the D, he will be at the same "level" as anyone else, so I doubt I would ever choose him as my partner again, as sad as that is.
Big hug to you, and have an awesome time at tennis!!
I've never been a gambler, so the idea of putting my life on hold for, say a 5% chance of reconciliation just seems like a waste of what little time I have left on earth. I'd rather get busy living my new life.
If we're doing it right, our life is not on hold, and we are busy living our new life. Enjoying our life does not require anything from another person.
I just have never been here. What do you do to move on from a 20-year relationship? When you share 3 growing boys to co-parent. When there is an OW in the picture. When H is not the person I've known all these years. I just don't know.
This is the biggest reason to stand, in my opinion. You are aware that most D's happen at the 7-8 year mark, right? All three of us have beat that milestone by far for a reason. Because we had true commitment and learned how to work out our differences. Our M's have already stood the test of time. I figure our long commitments deserve the best that we can give.
Should I sacrifice the possibility of finding true love for that?
Personally, I'd wonder more what the odds are of finding "true love". (whatever that means to you) Certainly you'd agree you and your W had it for years. Will your next "true love" relationship last longer than your present 20+ year M? The odds say nope.
Michele tells us to not allow
anyone to tell us when it's time to throw in the towel. Also that if and when the time comes we will know.
I'm waiting for my wife's "feelings" to return. Maybe they never will, but starting over with someone else is no sure deal either. In the meantime I plan to move on with my life and be happy about it. Bust On, my friends!
Thanks for your posts AS, Tori, BF, PoN & reb,
I appreciate the insight and advice tremendously. You've all given me a lot to think about.
This is my 3rd IC. I like her approach. She is definitely not directing me toward D. Is she pro-M. Yes. BUt, she is not giving me DBIng-like advice. She is very good at directing me to some excellent resources/books.
Journaling-
Very interesting weekend. Fri was a snow day & we (me & boys were stuck together all alone until late afternoon-no H). It was awesome just to relax and spend the day together!
H cam over & snowblowed the driveway then hobbled in all doubled over. Evidentally he hurt his back and could barely move. I felt bad, as I would have done the driveway myself (or enlisted S14 to do it). He didn't stay long b/c he was in such pain he didn't see any reason to hang around .
Sat he called and said he was in such pain he wasn't going to be able to coach boys' bball games (so I knew he was in serious pain) so we didn't see him all day. Again, the lack of contact made the day relaxing/stress-free for me.
I went ahead and went to my tennis meetup (as my boys are old enough to stay alone for several hours by themselves). It was a lot of fun and I met some very nice people. I am glad I went.
Sun H came over briefly in am and thought he would join me and boys to go see his sister (as she starts chemo this week). But he couldn't even sit in my car w/o being in pain, so I convinced him that this wasn't a good idea for him.
He got out and got into his truck and started to cry. I rolled down my window and asked him if he was in pain or upset? He said "both." He really wanted to be w the boys.
He called me about 5 minutes into my drive and said, "I don't know why I'm calling. I just don't know where I'm supposed to be. I really wanted to see the boys. "
Now I know I probably shouldn't have said this, but I did... " You know you are welcome to come back and be with us." He said, "I know. I appreciate that." Not going to try to interpret that at all.
I called him on the way home as he said he might come back to the house to see the boys but again said he was in too much pain. Boys were disappointed, esp S11, as he likes predictability and hates not seeing his dad.
Clearly he was upset about not seeing boys this w/e. He came to house after boys got home from school and stayed until 8:00. I went to they gym and grocery shopping so I didn't actually spend much time w him. But, I did thank him for doing laundry...
...He made a comment about some new undies I had bought and had gone thru the laundry. "I see you got some new undies. You never got these when we were together."
I just replied that I had bought them for my new low-rise jeans & needed bikinis. (Interesting he commented about this...again, not going to read into this at all.)
PoN. I will have to get the book Power of Now to read. I've heard a lot about it and it sounds like something I need.
Despite the lengthy talk about H on this post (and, BTW, PoN, I DID go a week w/o talking about H here), I have been living day by day and staying in the present more. I am starting to enjoy my boys more (when they aren't driving each other crazy or whining about this or that LOL!).
Thanks again, everyone!
Hi GTO,
you sound like you are doing much much better. I am happy to read that :-)
Keep doing what you are doing. It a daily challenge but you can do it. I know you can. :-)
Turtle, it sounds like we maybe are grieving together. I drank a few glasses red wine Friday and cried all night lol! Some sense of loss, probably for the realization that what I want and what I actually need are two very different things.
My H also makes the " glad you are meeting new people" noise and as you know has been pushing me to date. I accepted a date and canceled.. Not on his timeline and I won't alleviate his guilt or affirm his notion that " aha. I don't love him after all". I'll go when I'm ready.
So this all catapulted me back on my path because I can't live like that
Still friends with H, still best friends, but it is a different vibe for me. My mantra is " live my life cuz I can't live someone else's !"
little great job. keep up the work. you have your H thinking. You said you felt stress free w/out H around. Keep up the GAL. It helps. Act as if. Keep working on yourself. Good job thanking him for doing laundry.
If we're doing it right, our life is not on hold, and we are busy living our new life. Enjoying our life does not require anything from another person.
That is partially true, but for me companionship is an important component to my life, I am not interested in living life alone. I'm not saying I need to be codependent, I just like sharing life with others, particularly someone I'm in love with. So perhaps I should have said I don't want to put my "love life" on hold indefinitely rather than "life" because my life is certainly not on hold.
Personally, I'd wonder more what the odds are of finding "true love". (whatever that means to you) Certainly you'd agree you and your W had it for years.
W says we never had true love, and after having thought about it a lot over the last 9 months I think she's right. We were always more friends and companions than starstruck lovers to each other. It's really strange that we ever got married, it's like we did it because we were like "well we've dated 5 years, I guess we should get married now".
Will your next "true love" relationship last longer than your present 20+ year M? The odds say nope.
My M is dead, it's never coming back. DB'ing says we need to look at this as starting a new R and M with our spouse. But is that something we want with the person our spouse has become? That's the question we're discussing here. People change. I'm not the person my W married and she's not the person I married. Should the two of us that exist TODAY forge a new marriage together because the kids we once were got married 20 years ago? Maybe, maybe not. That's the question many of us are asking ourselves. Either way we're starting over, whether it's with our old spouse or with a new person.
Thanks for your reply AS, it makes sense. The only thing I'd question is this comment:
W says we never had true love, and after having thought about it a lot over the last 9 months I think she's right. We were always more friends and companions than starstruck lovers to each other. It's really strange that we ever got married, it's like we did it because we were like "well we've dated 5 years, I guess we should get married now".
Could this be re-writing of history based on recent feeligs in order to justify D? I have a difficult time believing that a couple who stayed in a 20 year marriage were
never in love.
Saying "we had it, lost it, and aren't interested in working on getting it back" makes more sense to me.
I'm not looking for an answer to this, just throwing it out there for everyone else to consider on thier journey.
"Saying "we had it, lost it, and aren't interested in working on getting it back" makes more sense to me."
Yep, FY, this is what I believe is H's current thinking.
I'm with AS about whether or not I want H back. Definitely not as is. Back as time goes on and I remove myself more and more (detach) I'm starting to look at him and really wonder if I was wearing rose-colored glasses for a long time. I really put him on a pedestal in which he doesn't belong.
Now his imperfections which I was perfectly happy to live before seem bigger somehow. Not to mention he is definitely a different person to me.
GTO, it seems you're detaching. You can only truly love someone when you see them as they are. You don't expect perfection, you don't put him on a pedestal, you accept them for who they truly are, and you are okay with them living life the way the choose to live it. This does not mean you will accept being mistreated, so love yourself and establish boundaries.
Your H is under a lot of stress. He seems to be softening a bit. You sound so much more composed, and I'm happy for that.
Also happy you enjoyed tennis! :-)
//W says we never had true love, and after having thought about it a lot over the last 9 months I think she's right.//
I am not sure what people mean when they say "True love" I like to think of the song in Fiddler on the roof.
Golde..."
Do you love me?
(Golde)
Do I what?
(Tevye)
Do you love me?
(Golde)
Do I love you?
With our daughters getting married
And this trouble in the town
You're upset, you're worn out
Go inside, go lie down!
Maybe it's indigestion
(Tevye)
"Golde I'm asking you a question..."
Do you love me?
(Golde)
You're a fool
(Tevye)
"I know..."
But do you love me?
(Golde)
Do I love you?
For twenty-five years I've washed your clothes
Cooked your meals, cleaned your house
Given you children, milked the cow
After twenty-five years, why talk about love right now?
(Tevye)
Golde, The first time I met you
Was on our wedding day
[. From:
http://www.elyrics.net .]
I was scared
(Golde)
I was shy
(Tevye)
I was nervous
(Golde)
So was I
(Tevye)
But my father and my mother
Said we'd learn to love each other
And now I'm asking, Golde
Do you love me?
(Golde)
I'm your wife
(Tevye)
"I know..."
But do you love me?
(Golde)
Do I love him?
For twenty-five years I've lived with him
Fought with him, starved with him
Twenty-five years my bed is his
If that's not love, what is?
(Tevye)
Then you love me?
(Golde)
I suppose I do
(Tevye)
And I suppose I love you too
(Both)
It doesn't change a thing
But even so
After twenty-five years
It's nice to know
Thanks, Tori,
Over the weekend I had a hard, but I felt needed conversation w my boys about WHY their dad moved out. S14 said to C at first session when she asked if boys knew why he moved out, "Because grandma died."
This has been bothering me a lot that they think this is the major reason he left. While his M's illness/passing DID contribute/trigger his perception of life (he agrees w this) it is not the main reason.
I had already talked to S9 about this, as he is very verbal about things and asking questions, but hadn't brought this up with the other 2 boys. I told them "while mommies and daddies ALWAYS love their children sometimes mommies and daddies stop loving each other. Daddy stopped loving me. I still love daddy. That's why he moved out. He is not planning to move back any time soon. Some mommies and daddies get a D, but we have not talked about this at all. But it is a possibility. It is not what I want for our family at all."
I felt I owed it to them to be honest to the degree they could handle.
S11 cried and hugged me for a long time. He desperately wants his dad to come back home. S14 reacted very sadly but didn't talk about it at all, as is his MO.
Glad they are seeing a C. I told her what I had said to the boys and she seemed surprised that I had "taken this on all myself." I told her I thought it was time and they deserved that (honesty) from me.
My H wanted to know what I talked to C about & called me later to ask. I told him. He was upset I didn't let him know in advance of this conversation and include him in it.
I told him it had been lingering on my mind for a while & I just thought it was the appropriate time and me doing it alone felt like what I thought was best for them. (I actually don't think I could have handled the conversation so well if H had been involved. Plus I feel he would have felt the need to defend himself somehow, rather than just stating the reason simply.
I did remain very calm when I told him and I validated his feelings of wanting to be included in "big conversations with the kids." I said in the future I would try to be more considerate of his feelings about this.
One last important thing (I think)- 3 times he asked me if I told the kids he was NEVER moving back or that he wasn't moving back right now. Interesting he asked about this 3 times when I told him "not moving back right now."
Oh, and you're right, Tori, I wasn't wearing rose-colored glasses at all. I just accepted him for who he was flaws and all...and loved all of him. Still do.
Just wondering where the "real" H has gone.
Wow Lil'G, like your C, I'm really proud of the job you did talking with the boys. You did great, and I agree they needed to hear your explanation without H there defending himself.
Rock: Great song! Thanks for posting.
I love Fiddler on the Roof, but now to me that song sounds like a Words-of-Affirmation struggling to get his needs met by an Acts-of-Service, which is sad because it sounds like my marriage.
LOVE IS A CHOICE .
yes that is a period
GTO, I read this last night and again this morning.
"while mommies and daddies ALWAYS love their children sometimes mommies and daddies stop loving each other. Daddy stopped loving me. I still love daddy. That's why he moved out. He is not planning to move back any time soon. Some mommies and daddies get a D, but we have not talked about this at all. But it is a possibility. It is not what I want for our family at all."
I'm curious why you included what I did a strikethrough on? Were your kids asking for more information? I'm a a believer that kids ask for things when they are ready to deal with it and that different ages will be ready at different times.
Were you telling them because of anxiety you had or were they expressing a need to know more.
My sons are much older than yours but one of my mistakes with them was trying to make it all Dad's fault. He is their father, he's been a great father and they will always love them. Trying to take him down a notch only lessened me a bit in their eyes, and mine.
Been away from the boards for a bit. You sound really good GTO!
they will always love them,combined 2 thoughts into one, should read:
they will always love him, he will always love them.
LA is right. Not sure telling your children daddy stopped loving mom is fair or the right thing to do. You have to be careful. My W told my S that Daddy was never moving home. They remember everything and I still get asked about things to date
Yea, I was waiting for others to chime in on that. It's different because mine are soooo young, they don't really ask why. I find in all situations, I don't answer unasked questions. I use to, and it got me in trouble.
LA is right. Not sure telling your children daddy stopped loving mom is fair or the right thing to do. You have to be careful.
But it is the truth, and it sounds like it wss stated in a gentle and non bitter manner. I'm not sure how you beat around the bush on an issue this grave. I'd like to hear the rational for not telling the kids the truth.
I have to agree with FY. I thought about this a long time before talking to my kids. Their thoughts about H leaving b/c of their grandma dying were off base and I wanted to set them straight.
Their g-pa just had brain surgery. Their auntie just started chemo. I didn't want them thinking that something else "bad" was going to happen in their lives b/c their relatives are sick.
Although they weren't asking, I felt they needed to know. I needed to be honest with them. And, I felt I did this in a way that was not demeaning or blaming to H. Rather, just stated what happened. The truth. H's actual words, not mine.
I will not tell them about OW b/c they are too young & there are a lot of reasons why this would not be in their best interests, but I feel they previous thinking might lead to misinterpretations of what.
I don't understand how this isn't "fair" when it is the truth. They deserve some of the truth, I believe.
Thanks for your thoughts, labug, PoN, Tallula, and FY!
GTO, lots of opinions and advice. I think it's good the kids know the truth but it would be best if your H was present when you have these conversations. I think the kids might hold resentment toward their father if they see him as the only one at fault. And yes, he was the one to abandon you guys, but you want the kids to continue looking up to him. So next time, I would include him. I'm not a mother, but I can imagine what it would be like to be told my dad left me bc he doesn't love my mom (which I would take it as "he doesn't love me either.") Just my thoughts. Honesty, though, is critical. So keep doing that.
Thanks, Tori,
I received a little bit of coaching from both my C and my kids' C for this conversation. I hold fast that I did what was best for them.
Plus I reinforced to them that mommy and daddy both still love them and always will. (We both tell them that every day.)
I think the kids will form their own opinions and feelings about what is happening regardless of what I tell them. S9 is already mad about his dad leaving. S14 is living in his own little bubble world. And, S11 just wants everyone to be happy and constantly "checks in" with both me and his dad to ask, "So, how are you doing today?"
Honestly, they are awesome kids. (I know I'm quite biased and I know they have their own bag of imperfections, but will always protect them and try to act in their best interests.)
You're the one who needs to be happy with it.
We're just the peanut gallery.
Based on all the stories I've read, the kids always resent the cheating/leaving spouse for breaking up their family, and not because of anything Mom or Dad did or didn't tell them.
They seem able to figure out who's to blame just fine by watching.
You did, and will continue to, tell them their Daddy will always love them. Don't second guess yourself for having this conversation now. If H didn't cheat/leave, you wouldn't be in this spot in the first place. This peanut thinks you did fine!
Plus I reinforced to them that mommy and daddy both still love them and always will. (We both tell them that every day.)
LG, I agree with this approach that both mommy and daddy love the kids.
In my sitch neither of us has told the kids that one or the other of us has fallen out of love. Just think that would be confusing for our kids and potentially turn them against one parent. Not only have we told the kids we both love them but also have reassured them that what is going on with mom and dad has nothing to do with them. Just things that mom and dad need to work on.
I just think telling the kids the "truth" has the potential to damage the relationship with one or both of the parents. If things don't work out you are looking at several years of shared parenting and the last thing I would want is my kids being reluctant to stay with mom because of something I said. I know for me I feel more at ease when kids are with mom because I know they are happy to be with her.
I agree the kids will form their own opinion.
Sounds like you have great kids!
What good does it it telling your kids that Daddy doesnt love me anymore? What if he comes out of his funk and loves you a month from now? then what. Oh kids. Daddy loves me again. Idk call me a fool but it sounds self serving to me. But as LA said we are just the peanut gallery. I don't see how this brings you any closer to your H
Turtle, I dunno. Both kids of mine 13 and16 know that their Dad was one who left. I said basically that he wasn't unhappy with the marriage to me and when someone you love is unhappy sometimes you just gotta let them do what they need to do to find some balance again.
That being said, up until a month or so ago, D thought it was my fault, that I had asked H to leave. Son has known Dad has GF for sometime, but to put it in S16 words " has his head up his ass..." Lol
So, my point is they make their own observations and judgements based on what they see, I think, and what they hear is mitigated by actions and observations of interactions between the parents and all of you as a family ..
Also, GTO, your 14-year-old is not in his own bubble even if he seems to be. Talk to him, and listen. He's just repressing or hiding his feelings, and that's not good. Show him it's safe to say what he feels.
GTO, this is so hard with children. I think you did what you think is best for your kids and stand by it.
I struggled for a few years because my kids were so young. Then they started to ask lots of questions. And it got to a point where D said "i don't think daddy is working all the time like you say". And i felt it was time for a little more honesty.
I did not mention OW, but I did say also that daddy is unhappy with mommy. Mommy still loves daddy and daddy still loves us all and he will always love you both. Daddy needs some time alone.
I thought a lot about what to say because I didn't/dont want to demonize H to the kids, while at the same time I thought they should have some sort of answers to their questions that were no longer "ummm daddy has to work so can't be home"
But kids are smarter..they have more intuition. It was my S that said I know daddy is not coming back...daddies always leave. I said no, daddies don't always leave. And then he said, we are just unlucky. I said well, we don't know what will happen but today, right now, we are enjoying our lives and we are very lucky for x,y,z.
I do not think young ones need all of the details, but I have also realized they feel more of the truth than what we say.
I have struggled with this and still do. I don't know whats the 'best' way to handle it in a way that protects the emotional well-being of the kids. Especially when its not a mutual decision of the parents. I would like to think that if they see me interacting with H in a loving manner no matter what, that it will help them later on to not demonize either party and preserve their love and ability to love regardless of the mess us adults find ourselves in.
Wasn't happy....not wasn't unhappy. Sigh. Should pre read before posting lol
Thanks, ruby. I know what you meant.
I appreciate all the feedback about this. I understand everyone's POV about this. BUt, what is done is done.
PoN, my H didn't fall out of love w me in a month, so I'm guessing it would take a long time for him to fall back in love w me too. I'm sure the kids would warm up to the idea well! But, the truth is I don't think this is going to happen.
Tori, I agree S14 is internalizing...the bubble is his protection from the world and he is in a very selfish early-teenage stage. I am definitely not oblivious to his reaction. In fact in some ways he worries me the most out of the 3 boys!
The past 2 days of brief interactions w H have been interesting. He has been as friendly as he ever has since BD, I have to say. I am very suspicious about why, but really am not going to let myself go into the crazy world of trying to mind read and figure it out.
I have to admit I am starting to do research about D in my state. Maybe b/c I feel it is inevitable. Maybe I feel there is just no other way this is going to play out. I am certainly NOT initiating anything (& am still wanting to save my M), but want to be prepared a little for when H drops the D bomb.
Since he has never said to me, "I want a D." I figure when he does that he is done, completely done.
Sorry for my negativety today, but I am in a bit of a funk. Not feeling well (physically or emotionally). Tomorrow is a new day!
Stop fortune telling. You don't know if your husband will or will not fall in love with you. Love is a choice 💘
You need to let your husband miss you and fall in love with a NEW you.
This requires YOU to do your work. Are you ready yet
Turtle, just because you want to be prepared does not mean you think divorce is down the line. There is nothing wrong with knowing exactly where you can stand and I think that it takes away part of the fear, knowing the unknown.
H asked at the beginning if I had seen a lawyer and I said yes. He was not happy. I explained that for twenty years, I had essentially been a stay at home mom, with basically no assets in my name. I had to know where I stood and where the children stood. No apologies. It was to familiarize myself with all aspects since I had never entertained this before. He came around eventually when he saw that I wasn't out to screw him lol.
I was just simply informing myself. Knowledge is power. Not over someone but for yourself. When you know all the facets it takes away the fear.
GTO, good idea to research the laws. It's quite complicated...
Also, start keeping track of all of your expenses. It's a good thing to do regardless.
And love is there or isn't. I don't think people fall out of love. I think they're blinded to what love really means.
PoN, I'm going to be a bit defensive about your remark, "Are you ready yet?" b/c I have been working on myself since BEFORE (last SPring) first BD-180s that have been noticed, that have become part of the new me.
I have taken notes about H's indications of what went wrong according to him and have really made changes where possible.
I GAL w old friends, and some friends from my past I haven't seen in years, and now am starting to get out (well, once) and meet some new friends.
I guess researching D laws is helpful to me to be informed of what my rights my be should it come to this.
Tori, I think you are right about WAS's being blind to what love really is. There are definitely STAGES of love. New/Infatuation love is just that. Deep commited love is what you have when you come to accept a person for both the good and bad...and you love them even more.
When there is an OP in the picture the LBS is powerless to have influence over his/her S b/c he/she thinks they are really "in love" with this OP when it is just infatuation....not based in reality at all.
I can't compete w someone who remains "perfect" in H's eyes, b/c he has not seen her flaws, that she is imperfect and in fact, carries a good deal of negative "baggage" with her. And, she has not seen him for all who he is.
Time will tell. I just don't know if I want to wait for this to play out. I have this (new) awful feeling that H will drag this EA out for a very very long time. I thought it would become a PA by now (and yes, I am quite sure it hasn't). I can only speculate as to why they are waiting to "be together/date."
But, on some level, it just feels to me like the worst has already happened--he is "in love" and is "not willing to let his feelings change." To me a PA would only seal the deal.
BTW- His niceness continues...it really has me wondering. He even complimented me about what a good job I'm doing "all by myself" with the boys in front of them tonight. It was nice, but WEIRD to hear from him. I just said ,"thank you." Not reading into it any more than a nice comment.
I guess researching D laws is helpful to me to be informed of what my rights my be should it come to this.
I've done the same. I have not contacted a lawyer and no plans to do so at this time. My focus is on myself and ultimately for Plan A to happen. But if Plan B comes about you'll need to know your rights.
Get legal advice. Do what they suggest. I wish I did early on. Now it's a mad scramble of a mess.
Little you keep predicting the future. You also very negative. I've been there and it doesn't help. You need to stop this. Law of attractions.
I met with several lawyers. I had a spreadsheet mapped out with my entire new life not including my W. these things are helpful.
But do you see how when you pull away it pulls him closer.
You even got a compliment.
The work you need to do is thinking positive and fortune telling. It seems your doing alot better With mind reading.
If Pa is deal breaker how will you ever know. He won't tell you.
GTO, embrace the niceness, be nice back, but continue detaching. Continue working on yourself...
Thinking about you ((((((((()))))))))))
This is good!
BTW- His niceness continues...it really has me wondering. He even complimented me about what a good job I'm doing "all by myself" with the boys in front of them tonight. It was nice, but WEIRD to hear from him. I just said ,"thank you." Not reading into it any more than a nice comment.
Check what you did to help me do this ;-)
Thanks for posting on my thread, VeryGrateful, Floydman, PoN, Tori, and 2chiquitos!
What I've found out legally (or already know): 1) I will not get any alimony (as H actually makes a little less than I do); 2) I can probably keep out house until kids are 18 w/o paying H a cent until then; 3) I can probably get physical custody of kids w/o a problem; 4) H will have to pay up to 45% of his salary for child custody (3 boys); and 5) H hasn't got a clue about what's coming down the pike if he D's me!
PoN, my negativity is vented here on this forum. I do not show this toward H at all. In fact the one things I feel I have 180ed on best is NOT saying what's always on my mind before really processing what I want to say and how I want to say it. I am proud that I can really listen to H w/o responding negatively.
Oh, H will tell me if EA turns into PA. The one thing he HAS been is brutally honest about changes w OW. To the point where I don't want to hear some of the things he's said. A PA is also a deal breaker for him (at least that is what he's said). I really don't know how a man who thinks he's in love w OW can abstain for so long.... any thoughts?
I am quite sure "the niceness" from H comes from a R talk (he initiated) in Feb when I told him that if he "cares about me so much then why does he treat me like $hit?" At the time he told me he didn't want to send me mixed messages--that he thought I might misinterpret his niceness as a change in his feelings toward me/OW. I think he is trying out this "niceness" to see what happens--to see if we can be "friends."
I don't want to be friends w H. I can be friendly but not friends. It won't help me detach...this I know about me now. Maybe down the line- IDK.
Working on finances as H has made it clear he wants to divide up finances next month. I will make it clear what we (boys & I) need to live on. I already told him 1/2 his salary would be what we need. I'm not sure he liked that! Oh, well, it's the truth. We'll see how "friendly" this stays after finances get dividdy up.
I don't want to be friends w H. I can be friendly but not friends. It won't help me detach...this I know about me now. Maybe down the line- IDK.
Hi turtle, For what it's worth, (about 2 cents) I'm on board with this.
If my wife fully bails on me, I will no longer be a friend. Not to hurt her, but to protect me. And since we have no kids, it will be quite easy to do this.
At the end of the day you need to protect yourself. Great job gathering the facts
I certainly think it would be difficult to be friends in my sitch. W has ruined chance of that. Any friendship would be superficial and phony, so 'friendly' would be the most it could be. Even that would be a loooong way off....and that has been her choosing.
Just catching up on your sitch. I was in full on "ME" zone the past few days. No fun.
You sound good!! I've been doing the same thing, and I plan to see a lawyer in the next few weeks to have all the info I can. It's important. Inforamtion doesn't mean action. Just that we know where we stand.
I am definately looking at my friend/friendliness with my H. I really stepped about 10 steps back this weekend in the detaching, although my H is really playing both sides. He wants to keep the door open to our R, while still being with OW. I know I can't be friends with him right now for my own POM. Good for you for knowing that as well.
Detachment is neither kind or unkind. Remember you need to detach in a loving way. You have children so you will need to be "friends" if you want to continue to work together to raise your children.
"friends" - not hypocritical, continue to act as if, don't take his re/actions personal, you are on separate journeys.
There are times my friends don't need to know how I'm feeling. Am I being a hypocrit? No.
I'm allocating my feelings in a more appropriate place. I can express myself through writing, physical activity, sharing with IC or friends who will help me with these feelings.
Don't make decisions about money based on emotions. Separate your sitch from how you want to divvy up the money. This is a great opportunity to use what you have learned.
Set aside what you are willing to compromise and what you are not willing to compromise.
When H n I separated our money a year ago, H gave me money for all my bills. There was absolutely no extra money for either of us. So in that respect, we didn't disagree.
It hurt because it was another step in our separation but it was more than anything for him. He wanted to do this to relieve some stress and know that we were taken care of.Same w him moving into an apt.
Hope that helps.
I like what 2 said about detachment not being kind or unkind. It's hard to detach lovingly and I know I have to think twice, three times or more before I respond in my efforts to reflect loving detachment. It has helped by not initiating any contact with H except with regards to the kids...but even this can be hard because it needs to be for the right reasons. Without expectations. For the kids and their R with H. I think that maybe friendliness or even may be friendship could develop from that.
I got this from Al Anon.
Detachment is neither kind or unkind. It does not imply judgement or condemnation of the person or situation from which we are detaching. Separating ourselves from the adverse effects of another person's alcoholism (I replace it with cheating) can be a means of detaching: this does not necessarily require physical separations. Detachment can help us look at our sitch realistically and objectively.
Detachment allows us to let go of our obsession with another's behavior and begin to lead happier and more manageable lives, lives iwth dignity and rights, lives guided by a Power greater than ourselves. We can still love the person without liking the behavior.
My W's detachment has been very unkind, mean-spirited and full of disdain since May. My L believes this is not someone that is detaching at all and is holding onto that anger because they cannot really let go and there is too much emotion. Thoughts?
My W's detachment has been very unkind, mean-spirited and full of disdain since May. My L believes this is not someone that is detaching at all and is holding onto that anger because they cannot really let go and there is too much emotion. Thoughts?
Undoubtedly, Floyd. If you can arise emotion from her, she isn't completely detached from you. However, negative emotion isn't exactly a good thing. Keep working your 180's. In time, hopefully she will come around.
GTO,
you and I are in somwwhat similar places. I am sorry I haven't had much useful advice for you lately. I'm so confused with my mess, I have been focusing on other things to keep me centered.
Sounds like you are doing pretty good though. I like your attitude. This "friend" thing is a PITA. Keep up the great work!
Floyd-that's not detachment.
Agree w labug, Floyd. NOt detachment.
Thanks, 2, Tallula, Floyd, PoN, FY,bustin and SP,
I appreciate all of your feedback!
One thing I do know--the less I interact w H, the better I am. I don't think about him as much or what he's thinking. I rarely think about what he's doing any more.
I put far more energy into wondering what's going on in his head when we've had conversations or interacted at all. I am really not trying to mind-read.
Our "21" years of being together (although we aren't technically together any more) is coming up at the beginning of April. This morning I had crazy thoughts about emailing him & his entire staff at work (including OW) saying, "21 years. I love you still. But... Song dedication- Just Give Me a Reason by Pink. Your wife, turtle.
I know it sounds crazy and I have to dig deep as to my intentions with this. I wonder if I'm not at a point of After the LRT. Give one last expression of love and then push away. Don't really know if I'm there, but I certainly feel like there isn't much left.
And I'm not sure WHY I would want to send it to all his co-workers except that I want HER to hear how much I love my H. I want any co-workers that know me to realize when this goes down that it wasn't ME who wanted this. And, that OW is a demon.
Okay, now that I've got that off my chest, can anyone give me advice about what the heck I'm thinking! I know 2x4s are coming, so give them to me, if needed. PoN, don't be too harsh--I don't think I'd really actually do this.
I struggle with the same feelings, GTO. recently, I started feeling like I was pretty much done DBing, with the exception of the 180's I am doing for myself. A little over a week ago I got sucked back onto the roller coaster. I am starting to think that there must be a happy medium somewhere between overly detached and caring too much. If you can find that balance, DBing could continue forever. It is when you get too wound up thinking about it that it becomes so discouraging.
If it is any consolation, I am sure those interactions that make it hard for you, are hard for him too. How could he get you out of his mind....He's thinking about you. Stay strong, Lady!
GTO- you love the guy. You have huge history. No 2x4, just an acknowledgement of your growth...
A final F$%^ you, is basically what you want to send, but I know you won't and that is what the board is for. I often have fantasies of smacking H upside head and saying a la Cher "Snap out of it!!!"
I think the point of After LRT is a place of serious detachment. I know you don't have much left, but since you are considering the song...there is something. So, I don't know if you are quite there yet
Crazy thoughts are usually attached to lots of emotion, lots of emotion usually means you aren't done yet.
Write down the automatic thoughts and match them with rational thoughts. Google examples. It helps
GTO, here is what I see as signs of attachment:
-You care about what the OW sees or thinks
-You care about what the coworkers think of the OW and about you
-You feel like demanding attention from your H
I've been there, and sometimes I still go back to that dark place. But by definition, this dark place cannot bring you happiness. You need to embrace life and the only way is by continuing the detachment process.
I agree you're not ready for after LRT. Be kind to yourself.
Lots of love.
(((((((((((())))))))))))
"I agree you're not ready for after LRT. Be kind to yourself."
Yea, it may "feel" like you are ready, but you aren't. Me neither. I'm as detached as I have been this whole process, but I'm not to that place. And it's ok. If we can't accept where we are, then we will never move forward.
Ah those silly OW and what we want them to see/get. They won't. It's futile. They can't see past their noses and it won't give us any satisfaction. I wish it would, but it won't.
Love ya lady!
I advise you not to do such a thing
PoN, you crack me up!
Thanks, SP, ruby, labug, 2, Tori, and Tallula, for giving me advice/encouragement I needed without the 2x4.
You're right, of course, that I'm not ready to go to that final LRT place. I just needed to hear that & recognize WHY I'm not there. Too many emotions still involved. WAY too many.
I do love my H. I look at him and think "if only he'd come out of this fog & come looking for me" I think I'd have it in me to forgive and do the hard work needed to move forward.
BUT...I don't know if he will. It seems as though he just keeps moving further and further away. (like the recent request to divide all our finances.) That just seems so final.
I will continue on the long path of detachment. Thanks, friends!
My w withdrew 1/2 our savings and opened her own account . She also got a lawyer and marriage cert which is required to file . She also told my S
7 (5 at time ) daddy is never moving home
Think what you want
Turtle, I am in an H smacking kind of mood....wants I should whack a mole yours? :P
Seriously though, listen to PON, you and I tend to mind read our azzes off, let's not.
Turtle, I am in an H smacking kind of mood....wants I should whack a mole yours? :P
OMG! This seriously caused me to bust a gut. Worded so perfectly too.
I hope you ladies consider taking a look into a kick boxing/martial arts class to help release all the stress and resentment. It truly does help, and it's good exercise for the body.
Don't worry FY, it passes and I run...boy do I run lol!!
...yeah, and I bike my butt off. That's one of the reasons I am doing the 75 charity bike event this summer (& training for it)!
Thanks, ruby! Whack away!!!
Thank you, too, PoN. I need to be reminded what I need to improve on...mind-reading is definitely a weakness of mine.
H stopped by the house this morning (which is unusual) to drop off something for S11 before school. He started my car (as we have no garage) as he used to do for me every day in cold weather. I soooooo miss that!
So, after he left I called him specifically to thank him for that. And he just said, "You're welcome. " But, then went on to ask if I was ready for the day. And, then he said 'we should sit down and talk some time. Not about anything specifically, just talk."
I thought that was good. No expectations about that, but it seems like a good thing to "talk.' Which I presume that would mean about things that are NOT related to the kids, which is what our conversations are almost exclusively about now.
Looks like I should start a new thread....
The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.
Most LBS get stuck trying to figure out insanity with insanity
Sounds positive....I like just talk....