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Posted By: tiggertiger Still Confused Beyond Belief...part 2 - 02/19/13 09:44 PM
Here's my first thread (hopefully)

First Post

It's pretty long and I can't imagine anyone wanting to read it all, but might make a pretty good Lifetime movie. At least that is what my divorce lawyer said. How sad is it that I am the unwilling star in this drama.

To summarize, in August H said he was unhappy, and asked for more space, counseling, more freedom...I took heed and did 180s to perfection. H said he noticed and acknowledged that I had made some pretty dramatic changes. Things were going "great" lots of sex, intimacy, great communication..and then out of the blue H filed for divorce in early December and then with some persuading to go to counseling with me...and though he was "checked out" he was working through the exercises, making plans for future events, building trust and communication...it was not all sunshine and butterflies, but if felt like we were making baby steps towards some kind of reconciliation. Christmas, birthdays, family gatherings, outings, all harmonious, enthusiastically attended.

Feb 1st H came home, kissed me hello, had dinner and as soon as the boys were in bed, told me he was having an affair and walked out with the clothes on his back, not telling our two boys, ages 8 and 5 that he was leaving.

It was and remains confusing and heartbreaking for all 3 of us. The boys are devastated and to add insult to injury, H revealed that the OW was my friend and across the street neighbor, the mother of my S8's best friend. Ouch.

H moved in across the street. Sneaking in and out after dark. OW's son was sworn to secrecy about mommy's new boyfriend (H). We continue to go to therapy and some heavy-duty psychotherapy. Psychotherapist some how impressed upon H that it was very harmful for the boys to have no idea where Daddy was, so he moved into my deceased mother's empty home. In theory. He hasn't spent one single night there since he "moved in" on Friday night. still sneaking around.

yesterday was President's day and I thought H was at my mom's. A block from our house, S8 spotted H's car and said--hey, that's Daddy's car--what is it doing here if he is at grandma's? I muttered some explanation. told H. He said he would be more careful.

H is still going to therapy. So am I. My kids start tomorrow. I wish this whole nightmare would end. It hasn't even been 3 weeks yet and I am devastated. I would still take H back. He is coming over tonight to see the boys and bring us dinner. Very hard. very very hard.

So confused. I want him back but not right away. I want him to be remorseful. I want his new relationship to fail. and I KNOW I have no power over any of this. I KNOW I need to get up and move on. But he is ACROSS the street. It is so hard, being so vulnerable, seeing OW come and go, I feel taunted and humiliated. I am so certain that the boys will find out. I think they already suspect in some unconscious way.

We are going through with the divorce...I don't want it...but the pressure is coming from him. I am cooperating as it might make things better for the boys in the long run. Or not. I have read here many times to trust nothing what he says and only half of what he does (or something like that). That is exactly where I am right now.

Does anyone have ANY words of advice? Any tips? I feel like a zombie. Still in shock. When does it feel normal? I haven't even told but a very few friends, though fairly certain the neighbors know by now. He's not really as discreet as he thinks he is.

help!
Posted By: Tallula Re: Still Confused Beyond Belief...part 2 - 02/19/13 10:13 PM
I hope someone with more experience posts. All I have to offer is my support. You are really doing great, especially given the difficulty of your sitch. I don't have any D experience, but personally I would just make sure to use your L and protect yourself.
your support means a lot, Tallula. thank you smile
Originally Posted By: TigWinkle

Does anyone have ANY words of advice?


All I can say is give yourself time to heal from this. You've done great DB'ing, but unfortunately people are unpredictable and even the best DB'ing doesn't always bring a WAS back. That said, I think he hasn't given himself enough time to think things through and is rushing into something he may very well regret later.

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Any tips? I feel like a zombie. Still in shock. When does it feel normal?


Therapists like to use this term they call "new normal", and while it sounded a little silly to me early on it really did become a mantra for me during the healing process. You're in shock, depressed and feeling like a zombie right now because your life is in upheaval. I'm sure you're scared too. This is a normal reaction to what has happened to you. You will eventually settle into your new life without H. You'll get used to doing things that he used to do and you will become more independent. You will establish your "new normal", that's when you'll realize that you're going to be OK with or without H. For now you're just surviving, but once you establish that new normal you'll start doing fun things and enjoying life again and not just surviving, but thriving.

Just hang in there, I 've been where you are now and I promise, it does get better! You'll be surprised to discover just how strong you really are!
Posted By: adinva Re: Still Confused Beyond Belief...part 2 - 02/20/13 04:29 PM
Wow Tig. So sorry. Honestly I don't know what the right thing is to do for such little kids who are still old enough to understand what their daddy's car looks like. The secrecy was very difficult for me with my boys, and I covered for my H until the point where I felt I was protecting him more than I was protecting my boys. If H is going to do this, perhaps the bandaid needs to be ripped and they need to be told in an age-appropriate way. Get your counselor's advice on what and how and when to tell them anything. But the knowledge to an 8yo that their dad is doing something fishy, that cannot be healthy.

Originally Posted By: TigWinkle
It is so hard, being so vulnerable, seeing OW come and go, I feel taunted and humiliated.

Bah! Hold your head up! Here is what has happened. Are you going to let it destroy you? You are not the one doing anything wrong. Go about your business, try very hard to ignore their comings and goings, and smack yourself (gently) every time you feel humiliated.

Believe me, I understand and went through feeling diminished, humiliated, just the lowest most disposable piece of trash for my husband to leave me and not even for another woman, just leave me. I was that bad of a wife. Stop that. No one in the world is going to look at you going about your business and your H carrying on across the street and think less of you. Nope, it is your H and OW who should feel taunted and humiliated, and they are sneaking around behind the backs of 8 YEAR OLDS. That is really low. Hold your head up.

If you have any insecurities start working on them. Work out, do your hair and makeup, dress well. Get busy. Do things that are fun and exciting or even just different from normal. Reinvent yourself. Know, with all of your being, that you are good and deserving and are going to have a great life starting right now, in spite of H. To spite H, if that's how you need to frame it.

You will be OK. You will.
Posted By: Grace_O Re: Still Confused Beyond Belief...part 2 - 02/20/13 04:59 PM
Tig,

Everybody starts to feel "normal" (or new normal if you will) on a different clock.

Take care of yourself, working out has been the best thing for me esp early on. If you think you need AD's talk to your Dr.

As you start to put one foot in front of the other, you will come to see that the humiliation really does belong to them.

How would you like to re-invent yourself? Who are you at the core and what does she do, look like etc? I know it is hard to focus on what you would like at this point, but any consideration you can give it will put you on the path to being the best expression of you.

HUGS
Posted By: Tallula Re: Still Confused Beyond Belief...part 2 - 02/20/13 05:07 PM
I do seem to forget that this part of your sitch is so new. Honestly, until 4-5 weeks ago, I was still off balance. So 2 months for me. My boss actually told me monday that I've seemed more myself the past month.

It will take some time. I do think your H is really rushing things. I'd just legally take your time. Take care of you.
I'm guessing once our support system is up and running I will feel like I have less responsibility for holding us all up. The boys have their first therapy session today. On Monday they start Rainbows (we all will participate) which is for kids with changing home lives (divorce, death, abandonment). MIRACLE of all miracles, H has decided that instead of not needing therapy, he will go to psychotherapy--he has been listening to my reasoning, and it is making sense to him (about being a better Dad for the boys). He says he realizes he needs to look deeply at his past/parents to be able to connect emotionally with his children. When I say this is HUGE, it is not an understatement. Let's see if he goes, but he realizes the kids are suffering and even said he would cancel his tentative plans with OW tonight to see the boys. It is a start.

I am in therapy too and it's so empowering. I will not give OW the satisfaction of seeing me frumpy and disheveled, and more importantly it is fun for me. I do my hair every day, (no mom ponytail) put on make up and bought a pair of jeans--I look good, too! I got in the habit of wearing cargo pants/yoga pants--comfortable stuff. Not anymore...The boys say wow mommy you look pretty!

The taunted feeling is how I KNOW they are there. I KNOW they are sneaking around and part of the thrill for them is the forbidden nature of their relationship. I don't think H was too thrilled when S8 saw his car, though. We have consulted with counselors and they said to delay them knowing about the OW for as long as possible. This means I feel like an accomplice to H and OW and also that I am lying to the children. It is a horrible position to be in. I will do it as the lesser of two evils.

Adinva you are right. They should be afraid of the humiliation not ME. As one of my friends says---Everyone LOVES YOU and they HATE HER (this is true--she is uniquely offensive to anyone who meets her, a rare trait) and They will think your H is an IDIOT. That is probably true too. I don't want people to gossip as it might be an embarrassment or cause shame to the boys. So I probably won't really tell many people.

I have a neighbor who unfortunately simultaneously is going through divorce due to physical and mental abuse. We are able to do this together and support each other. That is good. The fact that she hates the OW is a fringe benefit for me.

Two months to feeling the new normal sounds great...I was hoping by the summer, so that will be ahead of schedule...:)

Thanks for your kind words, everyone.
Reinventing myself is a foreign concept really. I like myself just fine the way I am. I sort of want to stay that way!
Posted By: Verum Re: Still Confused Beyond Belief...part 2 - 02/20/13 07:07 PM
Maybe you should tell your husband a condition for the divorce is that they move to another house? While enforcing such a condition is impossible, by mentioning it, you'll have him thinking more about how his life must change.
Posted By: adinva Re: Still Confused Beyond Belief...part 2 - 02/20/13 08:09 PM
OK well you have a healthy self image and that's good. But your boys noticed you dressing more attractively. That's within the scope of "reinventing yourself" even if it's a small thing.

So, there is nothing out there that you haven't done yet that interests you? You've traveled everywhere you wanted to? Learned all the languages? Can cook any kind of specialty? You already know how to play an instrument at the highest level possible? I'm grasping for something that falls in the category of getting back to who you were at your best, before you became Wife and Mom, the real TigWinkle new and improved version.

These things spark a WAS interest and curiosity while also building the LBS up as a whole fascinating independent person. They are some of the things that eventually might persuade a H that marriage to you might be different from and better than the one he left.
Posted By: adinva Re: Still Confused Beyond Belief...part 2 - 02/20/13 08:18 PM
For me, I picked my worthless humiliated self up and started a meetup group to meet complete strangers who were interested in playing guitar and singing together, and have improved tremendously and gained confidence doing something I never would have imagined myself doing before, singing for other people. Those people don't even know I've been left, don't know and it's not who I am to them. To them I'm interesting and fun and a good organizer.

I joined another meetup group to get to know fellow hikers and in the warmer months I'm going backpacking. I tried it for the first time last summer.

I learned how to ski in the face of my entire family telling me I'm not coordinated enough and will look foolish.

I had given up my connection to my college, which used to be a big part of my identity, because it's not as impressive as H's Ivy League alma mater. So when a sticker came in the mail for me to make a donation to the alumni association, I stuck that sticker on my car window. A very small thing, but to me, it's like I'm coming out of a shell I've been in for 20 years.

I've taken my kids on two cruises and taken them to beaches and adventure trips, ALL BY MYSELF.

I need to get back to basics and reread DR, so please don't take me as presenting myself as a great role model, but I had a very healthy self image to start with, and found a bazillion things I would like to do to really be me more overtly and more intentionally, to express that I love adventure and travel and music and I'm not just a single mom and I'm not just a wife who got left because she wasn't good enough at housework.

That's what I meant by reinventing.
Thank you adinva...that makes sense. I married and had kids later in life--married at 36, had sons at 38 and 42. (I'm 47). for my whole adult life I lived abroad in 3 different countries, traveled to probably 50 others, became fluent in Spanish and played the piano and sang in a choir. I have a PhD and taught full-time for 20 years. This motherhood gig is new to me and something I longed for my entire life. So I am exactly where I want to be right now (except with no husband!). I will have to keep thinking of what else I can do because I love where I am now, and I'm really busy with being part of the PTO, the board of directors at my son's preschool, the head of a mom's group in town. I do everything I love, socialize, take the boys on adventures, bake and cook and decorate the house. In short, I already "have a life". and it's one that I love.

I totally get your point, and being attractive to H and showing him how things would be different makes total sense. I would love to lose the rest of my baby weight, and take the boys on far flung adventures--(no $ for that though)...maybe I should try to run a 5K. That would be something out of my comfort zone and definitely something the boys could be a part of. Maybe that is what I'll do. Win win, fun for them, fun for me, will get in shape. and will be something NEW.

thanks...thinking out loud...
Posted By: adinva Re: Still Confused Beyond Belief...part 2 - 02/21/13 04:17 AM
Good thoughts. You're in a good place and very well grounded. Separation and divorce can be devastating and the point is to shake things up and take charge of your awesome life. A 5K would be super great! Oftentimes the 5K's will have a 1 mile fun run that you could train for and do with your boys.

You do a lot that revolves around the kids and clearly love it. I can completely relate. I immersed myself in my boys and was a PTO volunteer, cub scout leader, active in playgroups, and part stayhome mom with a houseful of craft and educational projects.

Are you keeping up with the woman side of you as much as the mom side? The you that was you before you were a mom? (I think that is why I liked the 5K idea, but then I turned it back into a kid-oriented activity with my idea).
I do have a very active social life. I play Bunko twice a month, go out for coffee/drinks/lunch with my friends at least once a week, book club, exercising with them..., Well I should say I *did* have an active social life because now I would have to pay for a babysitter and be reluctant to leave them as they are very fragile. I leave them with friends when I go to therapy or the lawyer, and even then it doesn't feel good for any of us. They would not stay with my H on his own right now and even if they would, since he has no place to watch them he would have to watch them in the house and I don't trust him here on his own.

I am lucky because I have many people who love me and support me. I'm a really great friend and have friends that are even better than I am. When my mom was sick, I had dozens of offers for babysitting and people showed up with treats for us for months. When she died, my friends provided meals for our family every single night for 6 weeks, every day a different person showed up on my front porch with a hug and a hot meal. I haven't told many people about this yet, but the of the 5 people I have, 4 have promised to do ANYTHING for revenge against them. I just need to say the word. LOL! they are passionate and dangerous and they make me laugh. I know they won't do anything because I said--don't give them the pleasure of clinging to one another in persecution. But still! A mark of a good friend if there ever was one!! The 5th friend is a psychoanalyst and she just helped me find a good therapist. So I have some balance in my life, not just crazies wink

Right now my biggest struggle is trying to make peace with the fact that H hasn't really accepted the impact his actions have had on the boys. H said that he realizes now that his bond with the boys while he was in the house was largely based on his presence. He did not "DO" much to initiate contact and he agrees that I was the bridge between his and their relationship. Computer games, the gym, playing the guitar ALL came before me and the kids. Right now the OW and spending time with her (and her son) take precedence over our sons. I shouldn't be surprised, except before our sons were joyful carefree happy little boys and now they are angry, sad, withdrawn, confused and frightened. H has heard from me how difficult it is to navigate through their emotional storm, and last night on the phone he heard a minor simultaenous meltdown from the boys. I am sure it shocked him and hurt him to hear them shriek and stomp and slam doors--this is not their style.

The therapist said he needs to spend more time with them. S8 said he doesn't really believe that Daddy loves him anymore. I have told H from the start that he is welcome to see the boys EVERY day. He has chosen not to. And tomorrow he will be off on a weekend getaway with the OW and not see the boys all weekend.

I can't stop hating him for what he is choosing. He'll be off having fun, and I am stuck here drying tears and holding together the life that he destroyed. Don't get me wrong, I am glad to be my sons' rock, even if it means I am the target for their anger and resentment, but this is SO UNFAIR.

this is my biggest challenge. I would be just as bad if he was choosing computer games over them...but the fact that the OW is a mother, and realizes what is going on with the boys...well that is just even more disgusting to me.
Posted By: Tallula Re: Still Confused Beyond Belief...part 2 - 02/21/13 01:02 PM
You are dealing with 2 very selfish people who can't/won't grasp the damage they have/are causing. This pain is unimaginable. But it won't feel like this forever. That's what I kept/keep telling myself. Just feel it, keeping going. This is so new. Also, now this "secret" is out in the open more. The neighbors have to know, and that will maje this way less appealing eventually. The odds aren't in favor of this R, but I would think it has to be even less given the proximity & sitch.

I had a very active Social life before, so for me the main things I've added has been working on me. My 180s, reading books. I'm reading the 5LL & The Power of Now currently. I journal twice a day, pray & meditate twice a day, really spend time on me. What I want, what things in myself I want to change. That's a big change for me. Ive spent the last 4 years focused on everyone but me.
Posted By: adinva Re: Still Confused Beyond Belief...part 2 - 02/21/13 01:47 PM
OMG Tig, you sound so much like me.

I was thinking from this page that it sounds like your husband and you became very disconnected, him into his computer games and you into your kids. It sounds like you neglected each other and the relationship, and the only reason I'm digging for that is that innocent victim is the WORST place to be, you risk becoming bitter and going on to plan hypothetical revenge scenarios with your friends, and have no power of your own to make things better.

So I read your first post, and will read all the rest when I can find time. Your first post was so like me 10 years ago. I made a decision to forgive, accept, and get busy with my own life that I loved, and wound up here after 10 more miserable years of hurt piled on.

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My husband of 10 years filed for divorce a month ago 12/5/12
We have 2 sons, ages 4 and 8. I am a SAHM..(I do work part-time from home) We are not separated and going to therapy....but....

Backing things up--late August, he said he was unhappy, felt trapped, wanted to pursue outside interests, have less housework and home responsibilities, didn't love me any more, and wanted to go to counseling. He had gone twice on his own and asked me if I would go on my own before going together. I did--the counselor said that he thought we had more good than bad...and 6 sessions would be enough to get us back on track. After that H didn't follow up--didn't like that response I guess.

My H never said he was unhappy or trapped, but he started some hobbies that took us apart as much as possible, training for triathlons and marathons as well as helping and playing in a band with a regular late-night gig near his workplace. He just started putting all his fun in outside activities and all his trapped angry emotion into the home and family. He was dead set against counseling or workshops of any kind, those were silly and unnecessary, plus any mental health care would affect his career, he said, even if it was mental health care for me, let alone for him.

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I was so suprised--though we weren't really connected, we have an active happy family life, and we don't argue or fight. (problem!)

I'm glad you know now that is not a good sign.

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Any conflict or problem we might have, he usually just expresses no preference, agrees with me or if he does oppose, backs down easily and with a smile. He basically does anything to avoid conflict or distress. H is the kind of guy who never gets mad, almost always seems in a pleasant mood, such a "nice guy".

That was mine too. I thought we agreed on all the big things. His misery came out in nit-pickiness, which he would quickly back down from if I had a reason or argument. He just stopped smiling, stopped going out of his way to be nice to me, stopped being around much. But I thought he was happy because we didn't argue or fight.

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I had long ago [bold]gotten used to being neglected
, and a low priority to him....he's pretty independent/isolated, has no friends, no close relationships (not even with his parents), he is friendly with my girlfriends' husbands, and enjoys socializing, but doesn't make friends of his own. Prefers computer games, going to the gym, playing the guitar on his own.[/quote]
Tig, that is so not ok. You were so strong and accomplished and had done what you wanted in life, and now you had the family (ie kids) you wanted, so you could justify being neglected and accept it. There's big stuff in here that you can explore and figure out. Why did that become ok to you? Was being married more important than being in a connected relationship? Did you not know how to break through his conflict avoidance and get connection? Were you ok with stuffing your emotional needs BECAUSE they weren't being met? I was, absolutely, and I thought doing that was "saving my marriage." How did that become ok to you? Would it be ok again? How do you recognize conflict avoidance in the future? What do you do with it? All relationships have conflict. The ones that know how to navigate it survive.

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Over the years I have been disappointed, moody, complaining, begging for attention and expecting him to make me happy.

All that time he was experiencing the exact same thing from the other side. Though you seem more like the injured party, can you see that this couldn't have been fun for him either?

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2 years ago my mother was diagnosed with cancer and became consumed with her care as she got worse and died 8 months later. I was overwhelmed with taking care of my then 2-year-old and kindergartener, my mom, the house...everything...but came out of this experience realizing life was short and I was responsible for my own happiness.

I am so sorry about your mom, so sad. My marriage also broke down while I had kids struggling in school and a cancer scare of my own (nothing after all) and cancer diagnosed in my mother. My H was completely unavailable in this, just a brick of non-emotion. If I were to mindread I think he did have some feelings and was completely unable to do anything with them so he shut down and distanced himself. You can't hurt if you don't have a wife crying because her mother has cancer and kids who need more help than you know how to give, if you walk away and be alone you won't have to hurt. That's just a hunch.

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So I slowly began to change-- I forgave my husband (in my mind...) for all of his neglect and insensitivity and felt great! Started to appreciate him and was grateful for him.

Master of reframing! I did the exact same thing. I forgave my H again and again, for myself, and continued to enjoy my life and appreciate him for what he did do. I excused his neglect and insensitivity too. Why did you do that? Did it help? Did it fix what was broken? You cannot unilaterally fix a broken relationship. There's stuff there to explore (I'm still looking for your power to change, just not looking at world travel for you anymore. I think you can gain power in your situation by exploring how you came to be a person who would accept this and in this way assist in the breakdown...)

By the way, this is about where my story ended 10 years ago. I stayed in that forgive and forgive phase for a very long time while all affection, fun, love, caring, emotion drained from our relationship. Being married was the most important thing, and going along to get along was the way I knew to stay married. But nothing was getting better and resentments I didn't even know I felt were piling up on both sides. If I had anything to do over again, I would have stopped accepting neglect back then when my kids were smaller. It just seemed like the worst thing in the world to rock the boat and risk (the unspeakable D word). So here I am anyway.
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Anyway--when H requested the freedom, and the counseling, I was immediately game, and excited for it. So began what I thought were the 4 best months of my married life. We were talking more, the sex was great and much more frequent, H explored new interests, was appreciative of my taking over all of the housework to give him some down time, we were physically very affectionate...

This is a weird interlude. Perhaps he was desperate to check the box of "I did all I could" so when he left it would be with the hopeless shrug of what else could I do. My H has left with that. He won't say anything by way of explanation or defense. He was just miserable, what could he do but escape? I have no words of advice, just companionship. It really stinks to watch someone pay lip service to what you KNOW could really help fix things. Did the counseling give you anything to work on internally or was it about trying to get H back into a happy place?

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Then out of the blue that morning of 12/5/12 H says he is going to file for divorce that day, and that he has been "faking" everything for the past few months, he is done lying and trying to please me.

Lip service, box checked. My H faked it too, as long as he could. Thinking that faking it is going to somehow miraculously fix things. He did you a disservice, maybe he was just unable to face what he needed to face.
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He is miserable, and my resentment and anger over the years had affected him to the point that he feels like he's going to have a heart attack from stress. Agrees that everything has been harmonious and improved for the past few months, that I am a different person in many ways, and acknowledges that he believes I am committed to continued improvements, yet he can't let go of my past anger and resentment.

This is a difficult thing here. On one side, you have to believe that the WAS is going to spew and justify his actions, you have to know that he's going to blame you and make this your fault, and it's not just your fault. But on the other hand, you do need to look at what happened to search for where you have some power to change, some reason to change for the better. It is a very painful thing to think that you have some responsibility for what has happened. But the alternative, that you have no responsibility and nothing to change, means you're pretty much done working on your sitch, just a helpless victim. I prefer to look hard at myself and get to work. Besides, if he's ever going to look back, think about coming back (if you'd even want him back) he's going to have to believe somehow that marriage to you would be DIFFERENT and BETTER than it was before. What can you do now to be different and better in marriage than you were before? Now that you know accepting wasn't effective?

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He was planning on leaving that day...but I convinced him to consider the boys...I think he hadn't thought things through...and he stayed...slept in the basement. We found a counselor we both like and have been going to him for several weeks. H says that he cannot see a full restoration of the marriage, he is willing to be open to that, but it is very unlikely, he really does want OUT.

He also confided to me that over the years he has been self-harming himself by punching himself and cutting his ankles with a knife to relieve his emotional pain. I do remember him having to go for x-rays on his hand which was not healing but he said it was a gym injury.

Whoa. Not good. He really needs help and I hope he's getting it. You know, he may never become emotionally able to be in a healthy relationship, he may never learn to cope, or to navigate conflict in a healthy way, he may never be able to be the husband you should have. Would it have been better if this blowup hadn't happened, so you could stay accepting neglect forever till death do you part?

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I feel deeply compassionate for his pain, and want above all else to save this marriage for the sake of our sons, and for the sake of ourselves. Right now we are focusing on his angre and resentment towards me in counseling...and building communication skills. I have always dreamed of a great relationship with him---and here I was thinking we were finally getting there...

But unfortunately it sounds to me like he was playing along and not really going deep.

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So here is a rundown of where we are:

-we are going to weekly counseling
-H is in the house
-we are talking and doing things as a family
-H kisses me hello goodbye, goodnight, hugs too--whether kids around or not
-H says he doesn't want to send mixed messages, or raise my hopes...wants to be honest
-My birthday was 1 week after he filed for D. a few days before--he asked if I managed to get the sitter so we could go out to dinner as planned. I was super confused. Said why? I said I wanted him to be honest, not do things out of obligation--and said he did not have to get me a present, that I would understand. We did not go out to dinner but H got me a present and said he enjoyed doing it.
-I bought xmas presents (before the D filed) for H and bought some for myself and said that he was not obligated to buy me anything, I would have presents under the tree already, and be thrilled with them. H went out and bought me 4-5 little things anyway. very well-chosen and thoughtful gifts.
--New Year's eve we went out with friends, came home, drank champagne together, and H got up walked across the room and kissed me very sweetly at midnight.
--we sit together at night watching tv, chatting, share meals together, laugh with the kids, sharing our days, take them places, go out with friends as if nothing is amiss--then he kisses me goodnight before he goes down in the basement to sleep.
--over xmas he slept in our bed for "the kids" no sex or anything else.
--he sleeps in our bed on the weekends for the same reason.
--he doesn't think therapy will work.
--he lies quite a lot--hiding things--saying my angry reaction makes him lie. I don't trust him.
--I caught him in a few lies and confronted him gently kindly and with compassion, no yelling or tears, he lied anyway...finally came clean...and he said my reaction was very good--didn't cause him stress..
he appreciated it.
--no OW but has developed an online friendship with a happily married friend. She shares his sense of humor and "gets" him in a way I don't he says.

Without the counseling and kisses but pretty much everything else you described, I lived with my H from June 2011 until December 2012, requiring him to rigidly adhere to his commitment to show nothing that would give me any hope. He really cemented his position all that time.

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I was supposed to reply or respond to the divorce complaint by today or in the next few days. I told him I would not agree to divorce. Period. He can get a divorce anyway in our state if he pushes it through...he said that he would not be doing that. He said there is no "time limit" but he wouldn't push it through unless we had a huge fight--and he would let me know--I asked him--no more bombshells, and he agreed...but he would not be cancelling the divorce complaint. In six months if he doesn't pursue it further, it cancels itself.

You don't have to do anything. This can be a very long and slow process. You should have lots of time. You can do a lot for yourself in that time, and begin to heal, and become stronger. Time is your friend. I hope you have good legal counsel, but you don't have to agree to anything you don't want to. I don't know if this is relevant, but in my process there were lots of points I feared and thought of as points of no return...they included telling the kids, H physically moving out, receiving the separation agreement. Those all came and passed and nothing really changed. The kids were already hurting before they were told, they just didn't understand why. I was already missing H before he moved out because mentally and emotionally he'd been nothing more for me than clothes in a closet. The sep agreement hurt but I've had it for two months now and am getting around to responding. None of these things turned out to be the lightning strike I thought they would be. Heck, Crimson here at DB is completely divorced now and his sitch continues and shows positives even. Life goes on. I'm trying to learn to fear less.

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Some days I think we are progressing...we talk, do exercises the therapist suggests, practice better communication skills...but he says it's not enough. We are harmonious, friendly, and cooperative. He texts me and messages me from work every day. Yet he does not love me. Says being married to me would be platonic at best...yet says he is open to the possibility of something more...not optimistic though.

It is very normal around here for WAS's to continually affirm that yep it's not working, still not working, not working. A lot of the ideas in DB get you away from "temperature checks" and remove opportunities for him to feel he has to justify to you or tell you how he hasn't changed his mind. Get more space, be more quiet, even agree that you can see it's just not going to happen. If you look like you're fine and moving on, he may be curious, he may start to wonder what he's giving up, especially if he sees that you are different, that things might be different. This takes A LOT of time to happen.

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Some days I see we have no hope at all. H says he respects, admires, likes, and appreciates me as a friend, mother, person--but he does not love me and probably never did and doesn't want anything from me.

same as above. Try to have fewer opportunities for him to tell you this.

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Would like to coparent in a positive manner. The divorce outlined his wishes to see the boys here at the house every day for dinner as a family and tuck them into bed then he'd go "home" and have them every other weekend. I did say that I didn't see him being in my house for 3-4 hours every weekday living as a family being a realistic outcome. He said "okay" but seemed sad.

That is good. Good job.

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I have read Divorce Remedy--I don't even know what to do. I am very active socially and have my own life o utside of the marriage, I have a "life". we are not fighting and we are talking a lot and getting along.

I think your GAL is practically built in already, but it also might have been part of what was wrong with the marriage. Of course if you were neglected you needed to get a life outside of the relationship. What would be different if you reconciled? What would be different if you have a future relationship with someone else?

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But he is not committed to saving the marriage...he is going for the kids on the splinter of hope he might change his mind, but he doubts it.

I range from devastated to terrified to numb. Mostly numb. Some days hopeful. H says he is depressed.

H definitely sounds depressed, and it's great that he thinks he is (mine says he definitely is not; he's just miserable because of me!) This might be something you just need to wait out and it may never get better. It's on him to heal himself, and you can do absolutely nothing about that. But in the meantime, you can get out of the victim mentality and set the stage to do better in relationships going forward.

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What on earth do I do now? I am Confused beyond belief...

sorry this is rambling and disjointed. I did my best.

You did great. You're doing great. Hang in there. I hope you don't mind my rehashing your entire first post. I was just struck by how much of it resonated with me.
Advina...VERY VERY VERY helpful thank you so much for the time and thought and compassion. I have a lot to think about and I do want to respond. Right now I have two little ninjas jumping on the furniture and dinner to start. I will respond later in detail...

but just from the top of my head...

I agree I did not handle the neglect in my marriage well. I am learning from couples therapy that H most likely has an attachment disorder which has prevented him his whole life from being emotionally available to anyone--beginning with his parents and now including everyone even his children. I blame myself for ignoring this/not realizing this early on, for adapting myself to this less-than-perfect marriage and not seeking counseling sooner. I had every right to feel neglected and disappointed. H even said that he realizes that he is probably to blame for the emotional emptiness of our marriage. I told him that I was to blame too, for as much as he neglected me, I ended up neglecting him right back. I was not a good friend to him, and I pride myself on being a good friend. That part makes me sad. I tried desperately to have a connected relationship with him for YEARS--not just by complaining and nagging. I was thoughtful, sweet, did lovely things for him, bought him thoughtful gifts, gave him affirmation (just think of the 5 Love Languages and me doing ALL of the languages)....and with nothing in return, I asked for what I needed...and he tried...but never really followed through. I am sure that he was miserable when I stopped acting loving towards him on one level...but I also believed that he was relieved. Strong emotions of ANY kind make him very uncomfortable...and any time we would get close, it would be followed by him pulling away. In fact, the psychoanalyst remarked that it was no coincidence that we had the most amazing sex ever on a Saturday and he filed for divorce on the following Tuesday. It was too much intimacy for H to handle.

Although I will take a lot of responsibility for the failure of our marriage, I will not take any for his affair. I definitely feel like the victim of the affair. I don't believe there is EVER a valid reason to have an affair. It is a willful decision that causes a lot of pain to a lot of people, and he chose to do that. I don't think he thought it through--don't think he meant to cause pain...but he did. Just like I will not take responsibility for the lies he chose to tell me, I will not take responsibility for his decision to have an affair, to move in across the street, or the general way HE ended the marriage. This was not my choice. If he wanted to end the marriage there were many other ways to do it that would not have been so hurtful.

I am so long-winded! will be back. I am grateful so very grateful for your insight.

Tallula I like everything you said. I will try to follow your example and work on me. I have been working on me for a while, as I told H--I have changed and have been changing inside and out, and I am only halfway there...and with you or without you, I will be a different person this time next year.

By the way...I said this to H when I had lost almost 40 pounds and he hadn't noticed. I said--when are you going to mention how much weight I have lost? And he said--huh? you have? Oh you are right-- I didn't notice. Well done! I've lost more since then and have a little more to go. Will get there soon. I really did feel invisible in my M. That is something I will not accept from here on out.

Oprah always said the measure of a successful relationship is not whether or not you stay together but on how much you learned. I'm guessing this M will be my most successful R to date then. And I am only halfway there.
Adinva, you are really an amazingly perceptive person and now that I have read about your experience too it is interesting how similar it was to mine. You should pursue a career in psychology if you don't already do this, you have a gift for this kind of thing.

Your words have made me think and admit things more than the therapy. Though I have a therapist now who is tough and good--and H is going to go to him too. This is wonderful news for me and for him as coparents and even better news for the boys.

I want to address some of the things you said. You are so smart.

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Was being married more important than being in a connected relationship? Did you not know how to break through his conflict avoidance and get connection? Were you ok with stuffing your emotional needs BECAUSE they weren't being met? I was, absolutely, and I thought doing that was "saving my marriage." How did that become ok to you? Would it be ok again? How do you recognize conflict avoidance in the future? What do you do with it? All relationships have conflict. The ones that know how to navigate it survive.


If I am brutally honest with myself, I think that yes, maybe being married to a good solid man was more important than a strong emotional connection. After a few highly emotional relationships (think rollercoaster) I welcomed the respite of a peaceful person and relationship. I remember thinking--how wonderful that he has no family traditions--no yearly committments with family--that means all of the holidays are MINE!....not realizing it at the time that his lack of connection with his family would mean lack of connection with me. I guess I thought I was pretty special and would be treated differently than all of his ex-girlfriends, friends, family. And in the beginning it certainly seemed that way. I believe he was intoxicated with who I was all exciting and adventurous and went along for the ride willingly. I think over time I rationalized about me not getting my needs met by saying--he's a great guy, does anything I ask with a smile, he's so helpful, kind, so much nicer than other husbands--why am I complaining? I could do a lot worse--and who gets their prince charming anyway--that's only in fairy tales. But yes, I was selling myself short and damaging the relationship and myself by not asking for counseling years ago.

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I am so sorry about your mom, so sad. My marriage also broke down while I had kids struggling in school and a cancer scare of my own (nothing after all) and cancer diagnosed in my mother. My H was completely unavailable in this, just a brick of non-emotion. If I were to mindread I think he did have some feelings and was completely unable to do anything with them so he shut down and distanced himself. You can't hurt if you don't have a wife crying because her mother has cancer and kids who need more help than you know how to give, if you walk away and be alone you won't have to hurt. That's just a hunch.


It seems like everytime I was not on top of my game--with newborns, with two little ones, with a dying mom---whenever I needed HELP--that is when I felt the neglect and lack of compassion most. The therapist said that I am an overfunctioner meaning that I tend to do more than my fair share of the work--and this enables dysfunction in the R. I can relate to that. I did sooo much. Then I gave up and invested my energies elsewhere, neglecting him. Now When I say neglect, it wasn't like I ignored him. I was still kind, interested in him, did special things for him, affectionate...it just wasn't buckets and buckets of attention. I really sold myself short on our sex life. I have a much higher sex drive than he has and have lived a sex-starved life for a long long time. Of course our infrequent sex life was MY fault, according to him.

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Master of reframing! I did the exact same thing. I forgave my H again and again, for myself, and continued to enjoy my life and appreciate him for what he did do. I excused his neglect and insensitivity too. Why did you do that? Did it help? Did it fix what was broken? You cannot unilaterally fix a broken relationship. There's stuff there to explore (I'm still looking for your power to change, just not looking at world travel for you anymore. I think you can gain power in your situation by exploring how you came to be a person who would accept this and in this way assist in the breakdown...)


Yup we might very well be twins separated at birth! Yes yes yes. Guilty as charged. I know what to do, I just need to not drop my standards. I am totally worth it...but I let his treatment of me affect my self-esteem. That won't happen again. It's like losing weight. I bet everyone can rattle off how to do it--portion control, drink water, exercise...but actually putting it into practice is quite a different thing. I know what to do, just need to be consistent in putting it into practice.

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Did the counseling give you anything to work on internally or was it about trying to get H back into a happy place?


Nope, the counseling was all about getting H back into a happy place. I sat there listening to the therapist saying--well TigWinkle has a very good point....what do you think H? And then it was like I was eavesdropping on an individual counseling session. H very resistant to change though very pro-counseling. In an individual session I asked the therapist how long would it take to get H in a place to have a successful relationship? T said years of therapy. He has multiple things going on. Really deeply serious things. It makes me very very sad. But then again maybe our M was the best thing for him if he finds the peace and happiness within him that he never had. I only wish that we could be TOGETHER when we're both new and improved. I love him. I don't want a divorce.

I do have very good legal counsel. Maybe too good (little did I know) H expressed to me today that his lawyer is concerned, she knows my lawyer well and I guess is worried? Not sure. H wants this divorce done yesterday. I am in no such rush. Remember he has a new R. There is pressure from the OW.

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If you look like you're fine and moving on, he may be curious, he may start to wonder what he's giving up, especially if he sees that you are different, that things might be different. This takes A LOT of time to happen.


How long is A LOT of time? I need to be patient. It's been 3 weeks exactly since he left. I am in the thick of it still. I want the future to arrive yesterday.

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I think your GAL is practically built in already, but it also might have been part of what was wrong with the marriage. Of course if you were neglected you needed to get a life outside of the relationship. What would be different if you reconciled? What would be different if you have a future relationship with someone else?


Absolutely. My GAL is in part a reaction to my unhappiness in the marriage. What would be different is that my boys are older now and able to be left with a sitter (the little one had severe separation anxiety--he is fine now) and I would happily give up any of my outside activities for more intimacy. My friendships are so important, but if I had a willing partner, I would make him a priority.

Seriously adinva, your words have helped me so very much. Thank you. I will be thinking about this a lot. I have therapy tomorrow and it will help me crystallize my thoughts.

I am sad about H. I hope he gets the help he needs, and finds happiness. I would never do anything to hurt him, not even now. My friend, the OW, has also betrayed me, and as much as my friends say they would seek revenge on my behalf, I would never act upon it. Would be easier if I didn't have to see this going on LITERALLY outside of my front window. Our windows line up. Our driveways line up. It is very painful. I need to detach from HER. We talked on the phone EVERY day. We got together 2-3 times a week. We were friends. Our sons were friends. And now this. It is a lot of betrayal to process for me...Her betrayal...H's betrayal...all while taking care of my broken-hearted sons and broken-hearted me. sorry for the pity party but I am doing the BEST I can.
Posted By: labug Re: Still Confused Beyond Belief...part 2 - 02/22/13 03:54 AM
Well, ladies thanks for all of this. I had to walk away from reading your posts several times because it was so close to what I've felt and still feel at times. It's been a difficult week. The feelings are not as raw now but events can bring it back. Not the same intensity but it still hurts.

I have no words of wisdom only, as Ad said, companionship.
Posted By: labug Re: Still Confused Beyond Belief...part 2 - 02/22/13 04:06 AM
I'm going for ice cream.
Originally Posted By: labug
I'm going for ice cream.


I love this idea! smile Had some myself the other night, it was the right decision!
Posted By: l'infidele Re: Still Confused Beyond Belief...part 2 - 02/22/13 01:06 PM
Dear TW,

You are getting some great advice I just thought I'd add a couple random thoughts.

I love the fact that you are making the conscious decision to look great and act confidently whenever you leave the house. Go get 'em cougar; be the hottest, brightest TW you can be.

Their affair WILL implode. It simply will. Affairs area fantasy world and the fantasy evaporates when faced with the real world. Then challenge will be deciding what you want to have happen once it does. (that may not be as straight forward as you think)

Do the 5k! Just do it!. Join a running or exercise group that meets regularly, cross fit, yoga, whatever. The regularity of the group will provide you with some cameraderie (sp) the endorphins act as an anti depressant, and the physicality will give you confidence. Also have your kids run the 5k with you. Our 10 year ran one last fall and he was by no means the youngest.

One final thought. As I was reading your posts, I had this image of a really active, focused Mom, there for her kids, rockin' it at PTO, play group, bunko, etc.

Is there a possibility that you devoted yourself so much to being a Mommy that you forgot to be a wife? I ask because that's in part what happened in my world. My wife became Mom to everyone, including me, assuming that if I was taken care I was happy. I really didn't need to be taken care of.

Just some something for you to consider.

Peace be with you.
Posted By: adinva Re: Still Confused Beyond Belief...part 2 - 02/22/13 02:39 PM
Tig, I really appreciate your words of affirmation! That's my thing. I really love learning and have always had a kind of hobby in psychology and relationships. That is why I thought I was so good at understanding and dealing with my H! That is why I thought my marriage was so well chosen and solid! I was so ignorant. But I'm open to learning and I really laid myself bare after the bomb and have been working hard ever since. Many of the ideas that formed the foundations of my life were not as right or healthy as I thought. I'm still learning, and practicing every single minute of every day. And I have a really amazingly great IC.

But I'm just sharing with you stuff I have been told that helped me be productive in my grief, because there are similarities in us. I'm so glad you find it useful.

There are two things I studied that I recommend again and again. Pia Mellody's cd set called "Boundaries" which seems like it wouldn't be for us and then it really is. It's very remedial information that will fill in some gaps about why you think it's ok to suppress your own needs, and what would happen if you didn't. And Sven Wahlroos's Family Communication, which is just plain interesting, but also shows how you can get shut down or even give up trying to communicate what you need to your own spouse. That one you may not even get as much out of but if you ever can get your hands on the cd set it would be worth a listen. I actually didn't really get how it applied to me until the second listen.

Tig, this is a terrible awful thing. There is NO excuse for your h and your friend. But there it is. It can happen and you suffer or it can happen and you grow, your pick.
Thank you l'infidele for your thoughts which I can't tell you how much I appreciate...really.

I am going to do that 5K. My S8 did it last year with H (when he was 7) and it went great. I bet my S5 could run/walk it with me, too. There is a fun run of 1 mile, too.

How are you so sure the affair will implode? I would really like to believe this is true. I know my H is very dysfunctional in relationships and so is OW. Yet he stayed married to me for 10+years and she was married for probably 15. I am praying you are right simply because contact with the OW and my children is absolutely unacceptable and I am going to seek legal action to keep it that way. (seriously)

I tried very hard in both positive and negative ways to have the connected, happy marriage I wanted. I definitely made many many mistakes. But the more therapy and couples psychotherapy and counseling we have had, the more I realize that H has serious problems with emotional relationships and there was never really a hope to reach him the way I needed to. He admits this is true and acknowledges he has no idea how to connect with his own sons in an meaningful way. I am not trying to point the finger at him and claim I am all-innocent--I am not--but yes--I threw myself into my Mommy life when I realized my marriage wasn't giving me anything despite what I did or didn't do. I should have sought counseling--BIG mistake--years ago...but since H seemed happy and we were always harmonious and agreeable--it didn't seem urgent. Big big big mistake. And even now I think that counseling earlier might not have helped anyway.

but still I want my old life back, it was fun and comfortable and safe, and this new life is NOT. at least not yet.
thank you for the recommendations, adinva, I will look them up.

thank you for the compassion. this really is a HORRIFIC thing that is happening to our family. As I mentioned earlier, H chose to go away on a weekend vacation with the OW. The boys won't see him, and there were tears today and lots of anger from S8. Hugs and punching pillows helped, but it's just so infuriating how H chose OW over our sons this weekend. They really feel insecure and need to see him. I hate having to just sit back and let it happen but that is what I will have to do from now on.
Posted By: labug Re: Still Confused Beyond Belief...part 2 - 02/23/13 05:25 PM
I finally ordered the Wahlroos book just yesterday!
Posted By: l'infidele Re: Still Confused Beyond Belief...part 2 - 02/23/13 05:40 PM
TW,

A couple of thoughts.

1) You absolutely DO NOT have to sit and let it happen. That's the whole benefit of DB! You should be out doing something positive with yourself....movie night with friends at your house, cooking, working out, day trips. Expand your life. Here's one "challenge" for you to try if you want. Tomorrow ask one or two friends over and cook dinner together. Preferably try to grill outside. (OK, that last part might be just for a tweak on his nose for no good reason but you get the point)

2) I'm so sorry to say this, but your old life is gone forever, really, it just is. Everything has changed. The good news is that you have a whole new life ahead of you! It will be a great life, so fulfilling and meaningful. I can tell this just by your posts. Your husband may be part of it...and he'd be a fool not to be. But he may not be. You need to get going on creating your new life and not wait for him....... you may well discover that he is swept along in with it.

3) How do I know the affair will implode? I had an affair...I have some experience.

a)History shows that the odds are simply against it

b)Affairs are a relationship completely devoid of reality. That's why they are so appealing at first. You are only together for the positive parts of the relationship. Once the affair faces the real world, toilet seats left up, dirty laundry, nose picking, farting, uncapped toothpaste, unpaid bills....both parties realize "hey this relationship is the same as my old one, just a little different" then its like "well if its the same why am I here?"

c)Taking an affair relationship into the real world is like starting out on a transoceanic journey with a half sunk ship.

You know how hard a relationship is to keep healthy, vital and growing, right?

Now imagine starting a new one founded on deception and lies, with the burden of money woes, balancing children's needs, potential step children's needs, ex-spouses, lost friendships, lost family, new extended potential family members, new friends, work, cars, houses.....all while never having done anything to resolve your own inner turmoils that got you there in the first place and no shared history to fall back on. holy sh*t I just scared myself again.

Now having said all that affairs are like heroin, no really its addictive. At some point the addict has to accept that its the heroin causing the problem and CHOOSE to do the hard work it takes to get clean. That can take a long time and the fall could be very far. Just like an addict, you can't force him to choose to get clean and he may never. That's why you have to take care of you and keep the road back clear, but with appropriate boundaries.
hey labug--I was trying to find a thread about you to find out more information about your situation. are you making progressing on getting your H back home? what is working for you?
Posted By: l'infidele Re: Still Confused Beyond Belief...part 2 - 02/24/13 03:17 PM
Originally Posted By: TigWinkle
threw myself into my Mommy life when I realized my marriage wasn't giving me anything despite what I did or didn't do.


Just a follow up thought on this (Sorry its disjointed from my earlier reply)

One of the things I have observed over the years is that Mother child relationships become absolutely at the center of the mother's life (absolutely makes sense)

And then when the marriage faces trouble it becomes the absolute center of the universe and in the event of a divorce it can have the gravity of a black hole, pulling every single other relationship in(including the mother's relationship with herself)

Then there are all sorts of issues the Mom faces when her relationship with her children transitions from Momma, to Mommy, to Mother as it must.

I guess that's just a way of saying make sure to GAL for all the facets of who you are and ALL your life relationships.
Posted By: dbmod (NA) Re: Still Confused Beyond Belief...part 2 - 02/24/13 08:59 PM
^
What you say is true l'infidele. I am very attached to the boys (and vice versa) and very concerned about them right now especially, they are really suffering. But I am not enmeshed with them in an unhealthy way. I will take note of what you say because it makes sense. Thanks.
Weekends are exhausting. I am keeping my nose out of H and sons relationship. H came to see the boys today and I stayed out of it and quiet. Didn't interfere or provide support. He stayed 3.5 hours. It is very hard for me to have him in the house, but I did well. Nothing else to say except this is hard. And exhausting.
Posted By: adinva Re: Still Confused Beyond Belief...part 2 - 02/25/13 03:45 AM
Can you reward yourself with a bubble bath or something? It is hard, and sounds like you did very well.
Posted By: Tallula Re: Still Confused Beyond Belief...part 2 - 02/25/13 04:39 AM
Tig, you are doing awesome!!

Calgon took me away tonight!
Posted By: labug Re: Still Confused Beyond Belief...part 2 - 02/25/13 01:17 PM
Tig, do you have to stay in the house when he's there? Go get your nails done or something.
Thank you all. Yes I have to stay in the house. My S5 and to a lesser degree S8 do not want to be alone with him right now--either that or they don't want to be away from me. Remember H very suddenly disappeared while they were sleeping. I think the little one is afraid that I will disappear too. He can only take H in very small doses on his own(like 3 minutes). S5 won't even come to the phone when H calls to say goodnight.

Also I do not trust H in the house. It's the only place I have left that is "safe". As soon as I walk out my door or even by a window I get the feeling I am being observed by the OW who lives across the street. Too many times I have literally put my key in the door coming home and the phone is ringing and it is H. Not a coincidence. I try not to be paranoid but I feel like I am living in a fishbowl sometimes. H has lied so many many many times I don't feel comfortable with him going through my things or documents or maybe he would take things that mean a lot to me (photos, keepsakes).

Detaching detaching detaching. I am coming to understand he has done me a favor in many ways. Reflecting upon all of this nonsense makes me wonder how long I could wait for him to make the necessary changes for us to be able to restore our marriage. Surely I'd be on to greener pastures by the time he was able to do that much work on himself. Sorry if it sounds like I'm so great and he's a mess. I know I have lots to work on, too. But it's sort of true.

On Thursday night it will be 4 weeks. It has been a HUGE change for us and since H and I never fought I truly believe the boys were especially blindsided.

Last night the boys and I went to Rainbows. It's a national program for kids (and parents)which is free of charge to help families transition after loss of a family member due to death, divorce, abandonment, etc. The kids absolutely loved it. Helped them to see that they're not the only ones. They can't wait to go back. Some of the people have been going for years--helps build self-esteem and helps everyone reflect and share feelings better. They served snacks and I realized my boys are vultures. Very obvious I don't let them eat Doritos at home and they inhaled bag after bag. They went into their first session with orange mouths, hands and shirts (where they wiped their hands). A proud mommy moment for me wink

Also I saw one of my friends (we are both leaders in a local organization--I haven't seen her in a few months since she has been going through a divorce herself). I walked up to her and said, "Surprise!" and she looked at me and burst into tears. She said--I never would have guessed ever, no, no no. not you too! A sad moment. Was grateful for the support. I haven't told many people...
Posted By: labug Re: Still Confused Beyond Belief...part 2 - 02/26/13 01:47 PM
How great that you have that resource for you and the kids.

With what you described, I can understand that the kids would be worried about losing you, too. What painful thing for him to do, for everyone.

((()))
Things keep trucking along. Heartbreak, emotions, and me trying trying trying not to get sucked up in drama, disappointment, trying to detach. Hard to do. Especially when he's in my house pretty much every day, acting so happy and normal.

There is nothing to say. More lies discovered, more disappointment. I know the future is bright, but right now is bad. The divorce proceedings will be stressful and probably cause more problems. The kids finding out about the affair will be a new layer of pain and conflict....this is yet to come...not sure when...

I am sick of my life. I long for boring problems. The drama is stressful and overwhelming. Every day something new. Just when I think it can't get worse...there is more...and more to come. and every day I get up, smile and laugh and play with the kids, keep our home clean, put food on the table, and pour out my heart to my friends that lift me up. What I would do without them is not even worth thinking about.

Off to therapy today and I have no idea what to say. I am strong but am reaching my breaking point. I need some respite from my life and there is none in sight.

That's the state of my life. So sick and tired of my life right now.
Posted By: Tallula Re: Still Confused Beyond Belief...part 2 - 03/01/13 12:48 PM
Man, Tig, I feel you. I'm in a similar place right now. I'm still "standing", but I have made a mental shift to this may be the end...for me. I don't think my H will be able to change enough of his demons to be faithful. I don't need to make a decision now. Frankly, I can't D him until I can this baby anyway. So we are separated, and I live in that.

I'm sorry you keep finding out more. I understand that!!! Remember that you ate still only 4 weeks from this craziness. Most of the books I have read say not to make a decision in the first 6 months. I mean, your H is rushing a D. You can just live in the now.

You are so strong!!! I hope you can get some kind of break to recharge. Your children are blessed to have you as a mom!
Posted By: adinva Re: Still Confused Beyond Belief...part 2 - 03/01/13 02:16 PM
I hope therapy gave you some relief. I sometimes start to cry as soon as I see the open door to come in to my IC's office. It just has to come out. Trying not to feel the painful emotions you feel makes it both more painful and longer-lasting.

Sometimes even the idea that you should try to appreciate something in your life seems like piling on. Asking you to do even more, or like you have to be positive even when you're handling all you can possibly handle and maybe a little bit more than you can handle.

I've just been noticing lately that the idea of waiting for things to be better in order for me to feel better is NOT OK. I've been feeling really stressed and driven for a couple of months, like I have more on my plate than I can handle, and that if I just get to point x or point y that I can name, THEN I'll recharge. THEN I'll be better. It isn't working.

Then I read in the paper about a guy who's fighting to save the life of his son's murderer. I hear on NPR about a guy who found out at age 40 that his adoptive father actually stole him while his unit was murdering the boy's entire village. It doesn't even have to be that extreme. There are people going hungry in my county. There's a family in my neighborhood battling cancer in their 16 year old daughter. Life is happy and sad and ugly and beautiful and crazy and overwhelming and sometimes peaceful. Are you OK with only experiencing peace and joy during the good parts? When the other stuff is entirely outside your control?

I don't have the answers to these questions, I just keep finding myself asking myself, what are you waiting for?

When I feel down and things are piling on, and I want to just crawl under a rock, nothing external really seems to ever align itself to make me feel better. I just seem to somehow shift my focus and my perspective, find a way to take better care of myself, and get back to enjoying the fact that I'm alive in this world. What else is there to do?
Thank you Tallula your support and compassion mean a lot to me, really really really. I told 3 more friends in the last 3 days and it helps. One friend almost vomited and couldn't sleep all night. She is praying constantly for me and for all of us. Another friend thought I was dying and was relieved when I told her I was fine but my marriage wasn't. Then outraged and in tears. She sent me home with homemade chicken soup (she had made it for me before she knew about my situation). Another said her son had told her (my son told him) but when she heard some of the details she told me, Tig, you are loved by many people and I am one of them. I want to help you, and I mean it. Drop the boys off, anything you want, any time. It really helps. Tonight I decided that I would go out for cocktails with a group of girlfriends. It will only be for a few hours and the babysitter will be a bit beyond our budget but my mental health depends on it. I deserve it. A teeny tiny vacation from my life. The boys will play wii and stay up late, and love it.

Tallula what does it mean when you say

Frankly, I can't D him until I can this baby anyway.

I think some of your sentence is missing. I found being a mother to a baby overwhelming. I loved it of course, but it was so time-consuming and I breastfed for a long long time--so there was a loss of freedom--I am not complaining since I loved it--but it was an adjustment. I am not sure how you manage this without help. That is really amazing and what you are going through shows how strong you are. I am sorry it is hard on you. I hope you come to a decision that fills you with peace soon. Or else I hope your husband comes to realize what he is throwing away and does an about face. If I had a magic wand I'd be using it on both of us.
Hi adinva

thanks for your thoughts, you can't know how much I appreciate your wise and thought-provoking posts. Therapy was helpful. It helped me realize that I am still trying to run the show in our coparenting relationship, and that I have to stop doing that. It helped me realize that OW is using H as a pawn in her game to feel fulfilled, to replace the loss she has in her life. She will attempt to use my boys too if she has the chance. I hate sounding overly dramatic, but this is very very serious stuff. OW is dangerous. I am really anxious about that. The situation is very sad at the same time. Believe it or not I have compassion for them.

Your words resonate with me. I am grateful and lucky and appreciative of all I have every day. Friends and family that want to help, that love me. I feel pity for H who doesn't have anythign or anyone but OW. I can make it with my friends. I take time to watch decadent junk tv, go visit with friends, take the boys on adventures, chase them around the house, tell them dumb jokes, and believe me, it means a lot when I asked my S8 if he was worried about me being sad--and he said--Mommy, I don't want you to be sad, but this is a sad time, and you're mostly very bright and happy. It cheers me up. I am not at any time curled up in fetal position. I am busy and trying to at least stay in the same place and not go backwards. I have a warm lovely home, two healthy boys, love in my life, and a clear mind and optimism. Next week I begin my training for the 5K. I am moving forward. But realistic. There is more junk to come. More threats, more legal junk, more snide comments and somehow I will repeast my detach mantra...again and again. H's actions are making this easier for me. I am also going to begin slowly and methodically packing and labelling his things. It will make it easier for me when he has to spend less time here packing when he eventually moves on. And therapeutic for me.

Every time I am half a straw away from the camel's back breaking, someone takes a handful of straw from me and my burden is less. It keeps piling on, but God is good and he makes sure that I can handle what I have, and sends his angels to relieve me just a little when I am at the breaking point. Hard but not impossible. Hard. But....Not Impossible.

hope you have a great weekend...
Posted By: adinva Re: Still Confused Beyond Belief...part 2 - 03/01/13 11:05 PM
You too, Tig. And you should record what S8 said; I couldn't imagine a better possible way to be seen by my kid.
Posted By: Tallula Re: Still Confused Beyond Belief...part 2 - 03/02/13 12:37 AM
I legally can't D my H in our state until I phyically have this baby. Which, after tonight...I really want to D his butt.

You last post made me cry. Well, cry harder than I already am. Your S was so sweet!! I'm am so grateful that my kids are too young to understand what is going on at all. But somethimes it's so hard when I do get sad and they just don't get it. They hug me. Ok, I can't type that right now since they are gone and I'm super upset.

Just know that your strength is giving me strength!!
Thank you both for your kind words. Maybe it doesn't seem like a lot, but never underestimate the power of a little kindness...it gives me strength.

Tonight was fun. I had a few drinks with 3 friends and 2 other ladies I just met tonight. we all have 2nd graders, and had lots to talk about, it was nice, and definitely the escape I needed.

My S8 is amaaaazing. He really is. He had a tough week, but I am so proud of him. A gorgeous beautiful soul. Smart as a whip. Wise beyond his years and breathtaking to look at. Seriously his face, his gigantic eyes would take your breath away. Girls already swoon. Can't believe how lucky I am. S5 is also remarkable. Emotionally intelligent, he too is struggling a great deal, yet comforts me with his words--I only feel safe with you mommy, your hugs make me happy. Do you love me S5? Always, Mommy, always... A little love, he promises he will be my baby even when he's an old man. Fun, funny, serious, with a head full of ringlets and again, the most captivating eyes. I seriously must have been born under a lucky star to have been blessed with these two. How on earth H doesn't see this is so foreign to me....

Ahhh back to reality. I have to admit that H is trying by taking me up on my offer to see the boys every single day. I seriously need a break from it. But as it benefits the boys, I endure...

Tallula maybe the baby coming will bring you all together again. Babies are so magical. One can hope.
Another looong weekend over. What a relief. The week at least has some type of rhythm and pattern to it. It was nice to be invited to a friend's house for dinner tonight. Seeing her H interact with my boys made me realize how little H and the boys actually connect. Very sad.
Posted By: Tallula Re: Still Confused Beyond Belief...part 2 - 03/25/13 08:09 PM
Tig-How are you? Been thinking about you
Tallula--I just finished reading your whole thread. Good grief, what a story. I am a step ahead of you, already in the divorce laywer stage...it isn't going to be pretty either. Found out that H went to meet the EA lady halfway across the country. Not sure what happened there. Not sure the PA lady knows or not. What a mess. Two women. He is trying to get the kids for a lot of physical custody,,,most likely to avoid paying child support acc. to the lawyer. Get a VERY good lawyer. They told me 2 months ago that the H always say they are going to be generous and fair and put the kids first in the beginning, but then they change. They were so right. Also PLEASE keep telling people. It is so important to have the support of many. It has been the best thing I have done, tell my friends and family. People love to be helpful, people want to supportive. It will make you stronger...because when your life seems to be feeling "normal"
their anger and dismay at your situation will keep you MAD. and that is a source of strength. I swing between feeling pity for him, for feeling sorry for him and kind. It's NOT GOOD for me or my kids, once you get to this point, where there is no hope for the marriage, you are no longer "friends". Divorce is a business transaction, keep it that way and keep your emotions out of it.

Thanks for checking in. I am good. Less shocked, more stable, and strong, resilient. Not crying, not curled up in fetal position, not slashing anyone's tires. Just living my life and looking forward towards a bright future. beginning to see already that H has done me a HUGE FAVOR by leaving. He was holding me back from the good stuff in life. It still [censored] here and will get worse before it gets better...but the future is going to be great. The waves may be knocking me down right now but the tide will go out and I will still be standing tall. He will still be being tossed around by the waves of dysfunction, lies, and lack of integrity in his life...while my boys and I are building sandcastles on the shore. Better be careful or else I will begin to feel sorry for him again...not a good place to be for me! Detached anger is much much better.

THANK YOU for checking in. You are an inspiration. If you lived here we'd be going for coffee right now. For sure.
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