OMG Tig, you sound so much like me.
I was thinking from this page that it sounds like your husband and you became very disconnected, him into his computer games and you into your kids. It sounds like you neglected each other and the relationship, and the only reason I'm digging for that is that innocent victim is the WORST place to be, you risk becoming bitter and going on to plan hypothetical revenge scenarios with your friends, and have no power of your own to make things better.
So I read your first post, and will read all the rest when I can find time. Your first post was so like me 10 years ago. I made a decision to forgive, accept, and get busy with my own life that I loved, and wound up here after 10 more miserable years of hurt piled on.
My husband of 10 years filed for divorce a month ago 12/5/12
We have 2 sons, ages 4 and 8. I am a SAHM..(I do work part-time from home) We are not separated and going to therapy....but....
Backing things up--late August, he said he was unhappy, felt trapped, wanted to pursue outside interests, have less housework and home responsibilities, didn't love me any more, and wanted to go to counseling. He had gone twice on his own and asked me if I would go on my own before going together. I did--the counselor said that he thought we had more good than bad...and 6 sessions would be enough to get us back on track. After that H didn't follow up--didn't like that response I guess.
My H never said he was unhappy or trapped, but he started some hobbies that took us apart as much as possible, training for triathlons and marathons as well as helping and playing in a band with a regular late-night gig near his workplace. He just started putting all his fun in outside activities and all his trapped angry emotion into the home and family. He was dead set against counseling or workshops of any kind, those were silly and unnecessary, plus any mental health care would affect his career, he said, even if it was mental health care for me, let alone for him.
I was so suprised--though we weren't really connected, we have an active happy family life, and we don't argue or fight. (problem!)
I'm glad you know now that is not a good sign.
Any conflict or problem we might have, he usually just expresses no preference, agrees with me or if he does oppose, backs down easily and with a smile. He basically does anything to avoid conflict or distress. H is the kind of guy who never gets mad, almost always seems in a pleasant mood, such a "nice guy".
That was mine too. I thought we agreed on all the big things. His misery came out in nit-pickiness, which he would quickly back down from if I had a reason or argument. He just stopped smiling, stopped going out of his way to be nice to me, stopped being around much. But I thought he was happy because we didn't argue or fight.
I had long ago [bold]gotten used to being neglected
, and a low priority to him....he's pretty independent/isolated, has no friends, no close relationships (not even with his parents), he is friendly with my girlfriends' husbands, and enjoys socializing, but doesn't make friends of his own. Prefers computer games, going to the gym, playing the guitar on his own.[/quote]
Tig, that is so not ok. You were so strong and accomplished and had done what you wanted in life, and now you had the family (ie kids) you wanted, so you could justify being neglected and accept it. There's big stuff in here that you can explore and figure out. Why did that become ok to you? Was being married more important than being in a connected relationship? Did you not know how to break through his conflict avoidance and get connection? Were you ok with stuffing your emotional needs BECAUSE they weren't being met? I was, absolutely, and I thought doing that was "saving my marriage." How did that become ok to you? Would it be ok again? How do you recognize conflict avoidance in the future? What do you do with it? All relationships have conflict. The ones that know how to navigate it survive.
Over the years I have been disappointed, moody, complaining, begging for attention and expecting him to make me happy.
All that time he was experiencing the exact same thing from the other side. Though you seem more like the injured party, can you see that this couldn't have been fun for him either?
2 years ago my mother was diagnosed with cancer and became consumed with her care as she got worse and died 8 months later. I was overwhelmed with taking care of my then 2-year-old and kindergartener, my mom, the house...everything...but came out of this experience realizing life was short and I was responsible for my own happiness.
I am so sorry about your mom, so sad. My marriage also broke down while I had kids struggling in school and a cancer scare of my own (nothing after all) and cancer diagnosed in my mother. My H was completely unavailable in this, just a brick of non-emotion. If I were to mindread I think he did have some feelings and was completely unable to do anything with them so he shut down and distanced himself. You can't hurt if you don't have a wife crying because her mother has cancer and kids who need more help than you know how to give, if you walk away and be alone you won't have to hurt. That's just a hunch.
So I slowly began to change-- I forgave my husband (in my mind...) for all of his neglect and insensitivity and felt great! Started to appreciate him and was grateful for him.
Master of reframing! I did the exact same thing. I forgave my H again and again, for myself, and continued to enjoy my life and appreciate him for what he did do. I excused his neglect and insensitivity too. Why did you do that? Did it help? Did it fix what was broken? You cannot unilaterally fix a broken relationship. There's stuff there to explore (I'm still looking for your power to change, just not looking at world travel for you anymore. I think you can gain power in your situation by exploring how you came to be a person who would accept this and in this way assist in the breakdown...)
By the way, this is about where my story ended 10 years ago. I stayed in that forgive and forgive phase for a very long time while all affection, fun, love, caring, emotion drained from our relationship. Being married was the most important thing, and going along to get along was the way I knew to stay married. But nothing was getting better and resentments I didn't even know I felt were piling up on both sides. If I had anything to do over again, I would have stopped accepting neglect back then when my kids were smaller. It just seemed like the worst thing in the world to rock the boat and risk (the unspeakable D word). So here I am anyway.
Anyway--when H requested the freedom, and the counseling, I was immediately game, and excited for it. So began what I thought were the 4 best months of my married life. We were talking more, the sex was great and much more frequent, H explored new interests, was appreciative of my taking over all of the housework to give him some down time, we were physically very affectionate...
This is a weird interlude. Perhaps he was desperate to check the box of "I did all I could" so when he left it would be with the hopeless shrug of what else could I do. My H has left with that. He won't say anything by way of explanation or defense. He was just miserable, what could he do but escape? I have no words of advice, just companionship. It really stinks to watch someone pay lip service to what you KNOW could really help fix things. Did the counseling give you anything to work on internally or was it about trying to get H back into a happy place?
Then out of the blue that morning of 12/5/12 H says he is going to file for divorce that day, and that he has been "faking" everything for the past few months, he is done lying and trying to please me.
Lip service, box checked. My H faked it too, as long as he could. Thinking that faking it is going to somehow miraculously fix things. He did you a disservice, maybe he was just unable to face what he needed to face.
He is miserable, and my resentment and anger over the years had affected him to the point that he feels like he's going to have a heart attack from stress. Agrees that everything has been harmonious and improved for the past few months, that I am a different person in many ways, and acknowledges that he believes I am committed to continued improvements, yet he can't let go of my past anger and resentment.
This is a difficult thing here. On one side, you have to believe that the WAS is going to spew and justify his actions, you have to know that he's going to blame you and make this your fault, and it's not just your fault. But on the other hand, you do need to look at what happened to search for where you have some power to change, some reason to change for the better. It is a very painful thing to think that you have some responsibility for what has happened. But the alternative, that you have no responsibility and nothing to change, means you're pretty much done working on your sitch, just a helpless victim. I prefer to look hard at myself and get to work. Besides, if he's ever going to look back, think about coming back (if you'd even want him back) he's going to have to believe somehow that marriage to you would be DIFFERENT and BETTER than it was before. What can you do now to be different and better in marriage than you were before? Now that you know accepting wasn't effective?
He was planning on leaving that day...but I convinced him to consider the boys...I think he hadn't thought things through...and he stayed...slept in the basement. We found a counselor we both like and have been going to him for several weeks. H says that he cannot see a full restoration of the marriage, he is willing to be open to that, but it is very unlikely, he really does want OUT.
He also confided to me that over the years he has been self-harming himself by punching himself and cutting his ankles with a knife to relieve his emotional pain. I do remember him having to go for x-rays on his hand which was not healing but he said it was a gym injury.
Whoa. Not good. He really needs help and I hope he's getting it. You know, he may never become emotionally able to be in a healthy relationship, he may never learn to cope, or to navigate conflict in a healthy way, he may never be able to be the husband you should have. Would it have been better if this blowup hadn't happened, so you could stay accepting neglect forever till death do you part?
I feel deeply compassionate for his pain, and want above all else to save this marriage for the sake of our sons, and for the sake of ourselves. Right now we are focusing on his angre and resentment towards me in counseling...and building communication skills. I have always dreamed of a great relationship with him---and here I was thinking we were finally getting there...
But unfortunately it sounds to me like he was playing along and not really going deep.
So here is a rundown of where we are:
-we are going to weekly counseling
-H is in the house
-we are talking and doing things as a family
-H kisses me hello goodbye, goodnight, hugs too--whether kids around or not
-H says he doesn't want to send mixed messages, or raise my hopes...wants to be honest
-My birthday was 1 week after he filed for D. a few days before--he asked if I managed to get the sitter so we could go out to dinner as planned. I was super confused. Said why? I said I wanted him to be honest, not do things out of obligation--and said he did not have to get me a present, that I would understand. We did not go out to dinner but H got me a present and said he enjoyed doing it.
-I bought xmas presents (before the D filed) for H and bought some for myself and said that he was not obligated to buy me anything, I would have presents under the tree already, and be thrilled with them. H went out and bought me 4-5 little things anyway. very well-chosen and thoughtful gifts.
--New Year's eve we went out with friends, came home, drank champagne together, and H got up walked across the room and kissed me very sweetly at midnight.
--we sit together at night watching tv, chatting, share meals together, laugh with the kids, sharing our days, take them places, go out with friends as if nothing is amiss--then he kisses me goodnight before he goes down in the basement to sleep.
--over xmas he slept in our bed for "the kids" no sex or anything else.
--he sleeps in our bed on the weekends for the same reason.
--he doesn't think therapy will work.
--he lies quite a lot--hiding things--saying my angry reaction makes him lie. I don't trust him.
--I caught him in a few lies and confronted him gently kindly and with compassion, no yelling or tears, he lied anyway...finally came clean...and he said my reaction was very good--didn't cause him stress..
he appreciated it.
--no OW but has developed an online friendship with a happily married friend. She shares his sense of humor and "gets" him in a way I don't he says.
Without the counseling and kisses but pretty much everything else you described, I lived with my H from June 2011 until December 2012, requiring him to rigidly adhere to his commitment to show nothing that would give me any hope. He really cemented his position all that time.
I was supposed to reply or respond to the divorce complaint by today or in the next few days. I told him I would not agree to divorce. Period. He can get a divorce anyway in our state if he pushes it through...he said that he would not be doing that. He said there is no "time limit" but he wouldn't push it through unless we had a huge fight--and he would let me know--I asked him--no more bombshells, and he agreed...but he would not be cancelling the divorce complaint. In six months if he doesn't pursue it further, it cancels itself.
You don't have to do anything. This can be a very long and slow process. You should have lots of time. You can do a lot for yourself in that time, and begin to heal, and become stronger. Time is your friend. I hope you have good legal counsel, but you don't have to agree to anything you don't want to. I don't know if this is relevant, but in my process there were lots of points I feared and thought of as points of no return...they included telling the kids, H physically moving out, receiving the separation agreement. Those all came and passed and nothing really changed. The kids were already hurting before they were told, they just didn't understand why. I was already missing H before he moved out because mentally and emotionally he'd been nothing more for me than clothes in a closet. The sep agreement hurt but I've had it for two months now and am getting around to responding. None of these things turned out to be the lightning strike I thought they would be. Heck, Crimson here at DB is completely divorced now and his sitch continues and shows positives even. Life goes on. I'm trying to learn to fear less.
Some days I think we are progressing...we talk, do exercises the therapist suggests, practice better communication skills...but he says it's not enough. We are harmonious, friendly, and cooperative. He texts me and messages me from work every day. Yet he does not love me. Says being married to me would be platonic at best...yet says he is open to the possibility of something more...not optimistic though.
It is very normal around here for WAS's to continually affirm that yep it's not working, still not working, not working. A lot of the ideas in DB get you away from "temperature checks" and remove opportunities for him to feel he has to justify to you or tell you how he hasn't changed his mind. Get more space, be more quiet, even agree that you can see it's just not going to happen. If you look like you're fine and moving on, he may be curious, he may start to wonder what he's giving up, especially if he sees that you are different, that things might be different. This takes A LOT of time to happen.
Some days I see we have no hope at all. H says he respects, admires, likes, and appreciates me as a friend, mother, person--but he does not love me and probably never did and doesn't want anything from me.
same as above. Try to have fewer opportunities for him to tell you this.
Would like to coparent in a positive manner. The divorce outlined his wishes to see the boys here at the house every day for dinner as a family and tuck them into bed then he'd go "home" and have them every other weekend. I did say that I didn't see him being in my house for 3-4 hours every weekday living as a family being a realistic outcome. He said "okay" but seemed sad.
That is good. Good job.
I have read Divorce Remedy--I don't even know what to do. I am very active socially and have my own life o utside of the marriage, I have a "life". we are not fighting and we are talking a lot and getting along.
I think your GAL is practically built in already, but it also might have been part of what was wrong with the marriage. Of course if you were neglected you needed to get a life outside of the relationship. What would be different if you reconciled? What would be different if you have a future relationship with someone else?
But he is not committed to saving the marriage...he is going for the kids on the splinter of hope he might change his mind, but he doubts it.
I range from devastated to terrified to numb. Mostly numb. Some days hopeful. H says he is depressed.
H definitely sounds depressed, and it's great that he thinks he is (mine says he definitely is not; he's just miserable because of me!) This might be something you just need to wait out and it may never get better. It's on him to heal himself, and you can do absolutely nothing about that. But in the meantime, you can get out of the victim mentality and set the stage to do better in relationships going forward.
What on earth do I do now? I am Confused beyond belief...
sorry this is rambling and disjointed. I did my best.
You did great. You're doing great. Hang in there. I hope you don't mind my rehashing your entire first post. I was just struck by how much of it resonated with me.