My previous thread seems to have been locked.
The thread is here
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2316478&page=1 http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2316478&page=1So quick recap on last weeks events - W told me she was desperate for a feeling of love or hope towards me to work on marriage. She told me sees I have changed and she is very conflicted because it is all hurting our son so much. Also said she would contact her lawyer and cancel divorce proceedings - she said we might as well just wait the 2 years so no one needs to be blamed.
She left the house sobbing and promising to keep communication going. All I have had since is cold, short text messages until today when I received an email:
"I just wanted to let you know I have thought about what you have said. Sunday I am taking myself away for the day to have time away from everyone and everything. Time to think and reflect on all that is happening. I hope you can respect this and give me the time you say we have.
I had a long talk with Son last night as he just opened up to me about things. He wanted lots of reassurance that I still loved him and that you still loved him. I had a picture book with a story in about a little boy like Son. I read it to him and he just talked about how he felt sad and missed us being together. He said it is different now. He likes daddy days and mummy days."
Wondering what I should be making of this - it's very difficult not to over think it.
Any thoughts or opinions would be greatly appreciated as always...
Overthinking it won't help you. However, it is better that than pushing her to talk or make any kind of decisions. Don't take her temperature to find out where she is or anything. Keep quiet. Let her bring it up when she is ready. If that's a year from now.....so be it.
Use the time wisely, to work on yourself and help your son.
A word of caution when talking with her about how your son is doing, it can come across as blame. Even if you don't mean it that way, her gulit may take it that way and it can push them away.
HUGS
Thank you grace - about our son, that email was from her to me - all our conversations regarding him have been very civil and I've made sure not to direct blame.
So quick recap on last weeks events - W told me she was desperate for a feeling of love or hope towards me to work on marriage. She told me sees I have changed and she is very conflicted because it is all hurting our son so much. Also said she would contact her lawyer and cancel divorce proceedings - she said we might as well just wait the 2 years so no one needs to be blamed.
Those are good signs. Just don't try to hurry things along, she just left last month so this could just be the pursuit/ distance dynamic taking place. Just keep your DB'ing going and give her space.
She left the house sobbing and promising to keep communication going. All I have had since is cold, short text messages until today when I received an email
That too is consistent with pursuit/ distance.
Wondering what I should be making of this - it's very difficult not to over think it.
I agree with everything Grace said, don't make anything of it, just maintain distance and let your W work things through at her pace. Do you know the squirrel analogy? Think of it like that:
If you try to feed a squirrel by hand, you have to hold perfectly still. It will slowly come to you, but even if you don't move, it will sometimes get scared and retreat. But it will return and get a little closer each time. If you get impatient and make any move towards it, it will quickly run the other way and the entire process starts all over again from the beginning. But if you remain patient, it will come closer and closer until it will finally take the food from you.
So quick recap on last weeks events - W told me she was desperate for a feeling of love or hope towards me to work on marriage. She told me sees I have changed and she is very conflicted because it is all hurting our son so much. Also said she would contact her lawyer and cancel divorce proceedings - she said we might as well just wait the 2 years so no one needs to be blamed.
Those are good signs. Just don't try to hurry things along, she just left last month so this could just be the pursuit/ distance dynamic taking place. Just keep your DB'ing going and give her space.
She left the house sobbing and promising to keep communication going. All I have had since is cold, short text messages until today when I received an email
That too is consistent with pursuit/ distance.
Wondering what I should be making of this - it's very difficult not to over think it.
I agree with everything Grace said, don't make anything of it, just maintain distance and let your W work things through at her pace. Do you know the squirrel analogy? Think of it like that:
If you try to feed a squirrel by hand, you have to hold perfectly still. It will slowly come to you, but even if you don't move, it will sometimes get scared and retreat. But it will return and get a little closer each time. If you get impatient and make any move towards it, it will quickly run the other way and the entire process starts all over again from the beginning. But if you remain patient, it will come closer and closer until it will finally take the food from you.
Thank you for the advice - your words always mean a lot too me as your story is really inspirational.
Hard day today as I can't stop thinking what will or won't happen on Sunday - I've felt line this since my W sent the email.
I have worked on myself a lot and I so desperately want my W to work on our marriage - but I just can't see it happening - not yet at least...
The more anxious you are about Sunday the harder it will be and that kind of anxiety or tension they spot like a red flag. If you can work out first and take the edge off, it might be helpful.
I've made sure not to direct blame.
That's great. I was not referring to direct blame though. In looking back I can see where I said things were taken as indirect blame. Was some of it his own guilt and shame? Sure. I could have been more aware though. Just sayin.
HUGS
The more anxious you are about Sunday the harder it will be and that kind of anxiety or tension they spot like a red flag. If you can work out first and take the edge off, it might be helpful.
I've made sure not to direct blame.
That's great. I was not referring to direct blame though. In looking back I can see where I said things were taken as indirect blame. Was some of it his own guilt and shame? Sure. I could have been more aware though. Just sayin.
HUGS
Yes you're right thank you... Truth s though its impossible not to think about it.
But I've been here a few times - she goes away to "think" about things but the outcome is always the same "can't come back" "don't love you" etc no reason to believe its going to be any different this time.
Intact,
Have you ever tried meditation? If nothing else the breathing techniques might be helpful for you.
Intact,
Have you ever tried meditation? If nothing else the breathing techniques might be helpful for you.
I haven't grace - but think its probably something I should look into.
JOURNAL
Really hard day today - whilst my W has gone away to "think" or be with OM depending on which way you look at it, I am at home with our Son.
Don't get me wrong we've done some nice things; been out for lunch, football, played on computer etc its just that everything I do with him, it makes me so sad that my W isn't with us.
The truth is I can GAL and 180 all I want but it doesn't change the fact that I just miss her so much and desperately want us to be a family again. It just seems like that will never happen.
Some days just plain suck. When I move right to the future, I really try to focus in the moment. Feel sad,but look at reality. You aren't D yet. Don't know if that helps, but it usually puts me up.
Some days just plain suck. When I move right to the future, I really try to focus in the moment. Feel sad,but look at reality. You aren't D yet. Don't know if that helps, but it usually puts me up.
It does help thank you. Actually it's the one thing that gave me hope - the fact that she had started divorce proceedings to get it all done ASAP and now she just wants to wait 2 years.
Well, after my Wifes day of "thinking things through" she sent me a email:
" I have thought about this, our marriage long and hard and for a very long time. There is no point for me in going to any more counselling because for me our marriage is over and has been for some time, which i have tried to tell you and explain to you so many times. I know you find this hard to understand but I know it is the right thing."
No surprises really - same old stuff.
Unfortunately I had this email on the very day I found out my Dad has a matter of days to live so very upsetting.
I'm so sorry to hear about your Dad. It's hard going through either of those things, let alone both at once. Just know that you can and will get through this.
Thank you soul I appreciate that.
The worst thing is I'm devastated about my dad as we are very close - the hurtful thing is the only person I want to comfort me is my wife - and she wants nothing to do with me. Very hard to take.
I am so sorry to hear about your dad! My thoughts and prayers are with you.
Thank you Tallula I appreciate your thoughts and prayers.
You know what's strange? My W was very close to my Dad and she's just brushing it all off like it doesn't matter at all. Honestly what has happened to her?
Well, after my Wifes day of "thinking things through" she sent me a email:
Wow, she gave herself one whole day to "think things through"? Good grief. It's only been 2 months since BD so don't read too much into anything she says right now.
Unfortunately I had this email on the very day I found out my Dad has a matter of days to live so very upsetting.
Oh no, that's terrible!! My thoughts are with you, hang in there!!
Well, after my Wifes day of "thinking things through" she sent me a email:
Wow, she gave herself one whole day to "think things through"? Good grief. It's only been 2 months since BD so don't read too much into anything she says right now.
Unfortunately I had this email on the very day I found out my Dad has a matter of days to live so very upsetting.
Oh no, that's terrible!! My thoughts are with you, hang in there!!
Thank you Another Stander - I'm desperately trying to be strong but it's a hard task at the moment. To think in November I was obliviously happy and a few short months later I am seperated and watching my dad die.
Dear Intact,
I am so sorry you have to struggle with this. I am frequently appalled by how life can "pile on"...I am always impressed by the people that come out of it.
I wanted to give you a point of view to consider, hoping that it may help you process your experience.
I was the unfaithful one in my relationship. I'm coming to think of the affair experience as something akin to an addiction.
It is so overpowering, so euphoric that it colors everything you see. You suddenly can't remember how you made it through the world without it...and then it starts to eat everything around you......all your relationships, your job, your finances, everything.
When faced with this, some people see that its the addiction that caused it, some people believe that its is everything else but the addiction.
When you deal with the addict all that can be done is help them understand the consequences of their choices and make sure the road back is paved and open. Its up to them to see the addiction for what it is; you can't force them.
Otherwise all you can do is detach, keep your part of the road clear of debris, and try to keep yourself well.
Peace be with you
Believe it or not something very similar happened to me, about a week after BD my dad landed in the hospital and there was some question as to whether he was going to make it or not (he's almost 80, much tougher for him to recover these days). In my dad's case he did recover which I am very thankful for, but I remember that feeling of utter despair and hopelessness when that happened on top of getting the bomb dropped on me. Yet today I am happier than I've been in probably 10+ years. All you can hope for right now is to persevere, just hang on for now. Once you have some strength back then get back to work on GAL. You'll eventually not only survive, but thrive. I know it doesn't ring true to you right now because I remember people telling me the same when I was in the dark and it didn't ring true for me either. I had to drag myself through day by day. It was the most difficult thing I've done in my life. I did it for my kids. Put yourself in S8's position, and think about what he needs right now, and be that for him. It does get easier. You will come out of this!
Believe it or not something very similar happened to me, about a week after BD my dad landed in the hospital and there was some question as to whether he was going to make it or not (he's almost 80, much tougher for him to recover these days). In my dad's case he did recover which I am very thankful for, but I remember that feeling of utter despair and hopelessness when that happened on top of getting the bomb dropped on me. Yet today I am happier than I've been in probably 10+ years. All you can hope for right now is to persevere, just hang on for now. Once you have some strength back then get back to work on GAL. You'll eventually not only survive, but thrive. I know it doesn't ring true to you right now because I remember people telling me the same when I was in the dark and it didn't ring true for me either. I had to drag myself through day by day. It was the most difficult thing I've done in my life. I did it for my kids. Put yourself in S8's position, and think about what he needs right now, and be that for him. It does get easier. You will come out of this!
Thank you - that's all I'm doing at the moment dragging myself through everyday for the sake if my son - god knows where I'd be without him.
Intact,
I am so sorry about your Dad.
Putting one foot in front of the other and giving yourself time may be all you can do right now. That's ok. Just hang in there.
HUGS
Unfortunately my Dad passed away in the early hours of this morning. The last thing he said to me was how important family is and I should never give up on mine.
In about 2 hours time my wife I are going to tell our son. I'm so emotional I really think DBing is going to go out of the window. The only person I want by my side to help me through this is my Wife but she told me yesterday before he died "I know I've made the right decision because your dad is dying and it's not made me want to come back and it's not made me care about you" such hurtful comments.
Unfortunately my Dad passed away in the early hours of this morning. The last thing he said to me was how important family is and I should never give up on mine.
In about 2 hours time my wife I are going to tell our son. I'm so emotional I really think DBing is going to go out of the window. The only person I want by my side to help me through this is my Wife but she told me yesterday before he died "I know I've made the right decision because your dad is dying and it's not made me want to come back and it's not made me care about you" such hurtful comments.
I am so very sorry, Inact. You will be in my prayers.
That had to be very hurtful thing to hear. I hope that MWD's advise to believe nothing that you hear, applies here. Just take care of yourself. Give yourself time to grieve and if at all possible, just focus on the family and parts of your life that will give you comfort. It seems that your wife will be unable to give you that.
Thank you Tullula - it was indeed the most painful and hurtful thing anybody has ever said to me. I know they say believe 50% of what she does and nothing of what she says - but think this is even stretching this a little too far.
Intact,
I am so very sorry for your loss. I am also so sorry that you had to hear your W's hurtful words.
I can empathize with how tremendously difficult this situation is: my parent is terminally ill and is fading. I know what it is like to want the one person you love to give you some love and comfort - and they have none to give. it is like the BD all over again. Sometimes I feel like getting through a day is like moving through a molasses fog.
This may sound trite, but take care of yourself at this time as best you can. Take care of your son. Lean into those quiet, private moments. Go to bed early if you can. Lean on your family who will be grieving alongside you. Bring Kleenex everywhere you go.
Sending you and your family peace.
I'll say it since no one else wants to. WHAT A B@TCH!
I am sorry for your loss.
I think your wife's comment highlights that she is only thinking of herself; she's being selfish. Instead of emphathizing with you, she is putting your father's death in the context of how she feels.
I didn't read all of your story. Is your wife in MLC?
Yeah Bond, that too. But it will be better for Intact if he can see that comment in a different light. Here's what I wrote way before lunch and forgot to submit:
((((((Intact)))))
So sorry about your dad. Last words have a way of seeming epic. But remember, never giving up on your family can mean a lot of different things. You cannot control your W, there is nothing at all that you can do to make her feel or think or act the way you want. If she leaves she leaves, and your family is your son and you, and the people you surround yourself who are healthy for you and there for you. DBing is a great way to live out "never giving up" because it provides a roadmap for being a whole person prepared to reconcile if the chance comes, and keeping the road home paved and smooth, and focusing your efforts on only the things that are within your control. Never give up, on what you have control over.
What your W said to you is pure spew, meaningless. Let it go right out the other ear. Imagine a place where she could possibly have gotten to to say something like that to a grieving son? How sad for her. The best and most compassionate and loving thing you can do - FOR YOU as well as for her and for your family - is wipe it from your memory with the realization that sometimes people just say some unimaginably wrong things. Let it go.
Your W may or may not feel conflicted, emotionally frozen, searching for justification, trying to convince herself and you that you don't belong together. Who knows what's in her head.
Empathy isn't something that strikes you like lightning, it's something you do, you practice. The fact that she chose not to, today, get outside herself and have compassion for what you're going through, does not need to have any lasting import or meaning for you if you choose to ignore it.
It doesn't make it ok, what she said. However, it doesn't help you in any way, holding onto it or giving it any credence. She's in a sad place right now, and I hope she finds her way out of it.
Take care of yourself. Think some happy thoughts about your dad, and what kind of a dad he is and what kind of a dad you are.
I'll say it since no one else wants to. WHAT A B@TCH!
Yeah, for REAL!! I haven't been around here long enough to feel comfortable saying that without someone else first doing it.
I'll say it since no one else wants to. WHAT A B@TCH!
Yeah you're right, but she was never like this, and I still love her dearly. Chances of me ever getting my family back together are very slim though.
"I know I've made the right decision because your dad is dying and it's not made me want to come back and it's not made me care about you"
This has got to be the epitome of cold, cruel and heartless behavior. One has to wonder if she would say the same to a friend, neighbor or coworker who had a relative passing away, I suspect not. I can't imagine the motivation for this other than to hurt you in the deepest way she can think of. I'm sorry you had to suffer this on top of losing your father. I hope your W learns to regret those words and apologizes to you some day, if not then I would be very concerned about her character.
Intact,
I am so sorry for your loss. How is your son doing with the loss of his Granfather?
With regards to the cruel comment you wife made, they may have been meant to keep from giving you "false hope" (never haver eally understood that one). Still she was in full witch mode for sure.
The only morsel I have to offer is that for me, emotion is better than indifference.
HUGS
Thanks for all of the comments.
We told our son together and my W was crying and holding my hand - as I left she hugged me. She has been cold and distant ever since. Not even one text message to ask how I am...
My Son was very upset but he seems to be handling it all very well.
JOURNAL
Been a tough few days as I have been making preparations for my dads funeral which is on Friday.
When I have seen my Wife she has been soft and nice - asking how I am etc - when she is not with me the texts and emails etc i get are cold and distant.
It's like Jekyll and Hyde.
She is going to the funeral - although not with me - you'd think at times like this she would offer me a little support but she really hasn't.
Intact,
Someone once told me something useful:
"Emails can't be mean (angry, loving, sad, cold, distant) They are only a bunch of zeros and ones sent over a wire. They aren't even written by hand for chrisakes.
Its what we tell ourselves that creates the emotion"
I guess its just a reminder not to try and look for too much in an email or text
JOURNAL
Been a tough few days as I have been making preparations for my dads funeral which is on Friday.
When I have seen my Wife she has been soft and nice - asking how I am etc - when she is not with me the texts and emails etc i get are cold and distant.
It's like Jekyll and Hyde.
She is going to the funeral - although not with me - you'd think at times like this she would offer me a little support but she really hasn't.
Sorry to hear about the death of your father. I hope you are able to find peace after processing the pain.
It has to be extremely difficult to understand how your W can be seemingly caring one minute and go completely cold the next. It is as they say, mostly script. The WAS has to continue to convince themselves that their decisions are the right decisions even if from the outside, they seem completely irrational and ill conceived.
Regarding the hurtful comments your W made, again this is really more of an attempt to create such distaste that no one in their right mind would consider sticking around. It is what she feels she needs to do in order to follow through on her plan. She may one day grow to regret her choice but you shouldn't be trying to goose that along. If she comes around, it will happen when/if she is ready and not before.
As you have likely been advised and read among these pages, you need to look after yourself. Prepare for the reality of a permanent break up of your family. Doing so with help you move forward and detach in a way that will help you survive this tragedy.
Finally, think about how your W would react if you were to stop being affected by her spew. How might she react if you were to totally and completely detach? If you can do this though, you can't do so with the thought of getting her to come around. It has to be so that you can survive and thrive on your own. Afterall, isn't your reality today anyway?
I am so sorry I know how hurtful that was especially coming from your W. My H said some of the most hurtful things to me that anyone has ever said. Seems to have no recollation of them either and in the next converstation acts friendly.
Take care of you and your S. Try not to think about what your w is feeling or thinking. I know it is hard it does get easier in time.
Thank you for all the recent comments. They do offer me so much support.
Everything that has happened has made me realise just how much my Wife has changed - I need to work out now whether I actually want to be with this new woman... Although, I do see glimpses of my old Wife - when we told our Son about my Dad, she was crying and holding my hand - comforting me - that's my real Wife!
Intact, I just read up on your sitch. Man, I'm sorry for your loss, take care of yourself. I'm praying for everyone involved. Be strong, be courageous and be bold.
Intact, I just read up on your sitch. Man, I'm sorry for your loss, take care of yourself. I'm praying for everyone involved. Be strong, be courageous and be bold.
Thank you Subguy - that's very much appreciated.
JOURNAL
Another tough day today as I'm writing my speech for my Dads funeral. I just wish she was here with me... helping me.
Wednesday is also what should be our 9th Wedding Anniversary so I also know that's going to be a difficult day.
On Friday my Wife will be at the funeral - not with me though - with her Mother. I am interested in how she will react etc even though i realise I can't control it.
W is having a lot of problems with our 8 year old Son - he keeps swearing at her - he's obviously very angry. I have him tonight so I need to talk too him about this - it's difficult though because honestly when he's here he's such a kind hearted and helpful boy.
So I'm finding a little easier to detach from my W but I do wonder if its my best course of action... I think I was pretty detached in her eyes throughout our marriage. And now I can't help but wonder if its a case of out of sight, out of mind.
It just seems like I'm making her life with OM too easy for her.
Yet another hard day today as I finish writing my speech for my dads funeral.
I initiate no contact with my wife but I am scared - I think she feels I was detached throughout our marriage - will she not see this as more of the same?
It was obviously false but at the start of December my life seemed so perfect. No my family is ruined and my dad is dead.
Your family is different, not ruined. Your son is healthy, right? You have a good relationship with him? You are his family and will always be. The perfect family you thought you had in December was false. Would you rather have a false perfect family?
It really suxx to have your dreams dashed, but life will go on and you will heal.
For now, get through your dad's funeral and go easy on yourself about everything else. There's time for that. (((hugs)))
Just getting caught back up on others sitch's and I'm so sorry for your loss. You, your son, and your family will be in my prayers.
I know how much you're hurting right now but try not to let all the negative thoughts consume you. As adinva mentioned start looking at the good stuff in your life. Also remember the good times you had with your father. Those are memories and life lessons that can never be taken from you.
W is having a lot of problems with our 8 year old Son - he keeps swearing at her - he's obviously very angry. I have him tonight so I need to talk too him about this - it's difficult though because honestly when he's here he's such a kind hearted and helpful boy.
How is your son doing? You need to stay as strong as you can for him because he's going through a lot right now too and I'm guessing you're his rock. You might be surprised at just how much comfort he will give back to you in these circumstances. A hug from my D seems to make almost everything go away for me...
As you have likely been advised and read among these pages, you need to look after yourself. Prepare for the reality of a permanent break up of your family. Doing so with help you move forward and detach in a way that will help you survive this tragedy.
Finally, think about how your W would react if you were to stop being affected by her spew. How might she react if you were to totally and completely detach? If you can do this though, you can't do so with the thought of getting her to come around. It has to be so that you can survive and thrive on your own. Afterall, isn't your reality today anyway?
This is great advice so I wanted to make sure you read it again. This is exactly the spot that I'm in. Just the mindset change that the word "family" for me now means my kids and I changed everything. It's hard, no doubt, but I now feel like I'm ready to take the next step towards moving forward with MY life.
As far as detaching I think you need to do this for you right now. With the things your W has said and how she treats you is it really in your best interest to remain attached, especially with everything else going on in your life? Detaching means something a little different to everyone on here but, whatever you call it, I think you need to just concentrate on you and your son for the time being.
Stay strong man, like I said, you will definitely be in my thoughts and prayers.
Hey Intact, my thoughts and prayers are with you and am sending some good energy your way
The first few months sukked.... No really, they always do. The only thing that kept me going were my kids, my GAL, my friends. I realize this is even harder with the loss of your dad, but that is the very reason, you need to concentrate only on you at this point. You only have a limited amount of energy. Use it wisely. Save yourself first...everyone else comes after.
Someone wrote that when there is trouble on an airplane, you put your mask on first. Dude, you got trouble on your flight, put the mask on.
Thoughts, love and prayers to you and your kids Intact.
It is like a flip of a switch how life changes. Your sitch is like mine in that way. it was false. Though you will realize with hindsight where the dysfunction was. If they can't be honest with themselves, they won't be honest with you.
I lost my dad suddenly 19 years ago. He adored my wife (then fiancé). But you know what? I still feel him with me. I feel him guide me with my kids and I appreciate that everyday. Your dad may be gone from here, but he is always with you.
Stay strong pal.
Thank you for all the new replies; adinva, Spartan, Inside Out & Floyd Man - they are very much appreciated and helpful...
I am trying to be as strong as I can be for my Son - all of this just all seems to have come together... It's also our 9th Wedding Anniversary today... I know I shouldn't but I do wonder if it has even crossed her mind.
Our Son seems ok - he still gets very upset; when he's with me he misses his Mum and vice versa. There's almost 2 sides to him at the moment.
When I have him he's the boy I know - kind hearted and helpful my Wife seems to have this monster that has temper tantrums and tells her too "f off" etc - it's really can't be nice for her. I have tried talking too him and telling him its unacceptable...
Will be seeing W tonight as we have a Parents Evening together to find out how he's doing at school... should be interesting.
My 180s are still in full effect - I have complete control over all of my finances, the house is spotless and I haven't got angry with W in a long time (not that I see her much).
The GAL is going ok but has been disrupted by my Fathers death - hopefully after his funeral on Friday I can continue - it is somewhat difficult at the moment as I don't have a car and really can't afford one for the time being...
Hey buddy, I thought of you this morning while driving to work. Just wanted to let you know we're thinking about you today.
Glad your son is doing good with you. I'm sure you don't need me to say it but stay close to him during this time and keep reinforcing that he needs to respect his mom and that you understand how he feels. Think of it as a perfect opportunity to teach him some life lessons about being a man.
I liked Inside's analogy of the flight and putting on your own mask.
In my opinion I would treat tonight's Parent Evening with your W as a business deal. Don't expect any sympathy, don't expect her to say anything about anniversary and don't bring it up yourself. Just sit down, learn how he's doing at school, ask a few questions, have a little small talk if YOU are capable without getting hurt, and then drive off thinking how fortunate you are to have your son.
Stay strong today and during the next several.
Hey buddy, I thought of you this morning while driving to work. Just wanted to let you know we're thinking about you today.
Glad your son is doing good with you. I'm sure you don't need me to say it but stay close to him during this time and keep reinforcing that he needs to respect his mom and that you understand how he feels. Think of it as a perfect opportunity to teach him some life lessons about being a man.
I liked Inside's analogy of the flight and putting on your own mask.
In my opinion I would treat tonight's Parent Evening with your W as a business deal. Don't expect any sympathy, don't expect her to say anything about anniversary and don't bring it up yourself. Just sit down, learn how he's doing at school, ask a few questions, have a little small talk if YOU are capable without getting hurt, and then drive off thinking how fortunate you are to have your son.
Stay strong today and during the next several.
Thank you Spartan this means a lot.
Is this the general consensus not to mention the Anniversary? I was just going to say something like "I did think of you today" I just don't want to seem cold or like I've forgotten what an important day it was.
Absolutely not.
It will hurt you if she acts cold, it will hurt you if she sounds sad and maybe there's a chance and what is she thinking, it will hurt you. Do not be the first to bring it up.
Where you are at, and with how extremely cruel she's been (in order to get you to understand what she's trying to tell you), you would be completely justified to not give her a scrap of marital attention on this anniversary. Don't do it.
Have an idea of how you will respond - noncomittally and not pursuing - if SHE brings it up. Some ideas: "yes, it's still worth remembering," or "I know. I hope you are well." or "yes, it had me thinking too" and then CHANGE THE SUBJECT. Be ready to do that.
I think your goal needs to be getting through today with as little damage as possible. It's just a day. Don't think about it.
Thanks adinva I will take this advice. So incredibly sad though that for 9 years we have shared and done so much - and now we are at a point where we can't even say Happy Anniversary.
I don't want to sound like the victim but sometimes I feel like a Husband who has beaten/abused their Wife. I told my Wife I loved her morning, noon and night. Just so very sad.
Well parents evening last night - we got on ok and we were pleasant too each other. She asked if I was going out and I just replied yes.
My W looked very good and seems really happy - I'm starting to wonder if her R with OM could be the real thing... Just don't understand how she can be so happy...
Been a few days since I stopped initiating contact - and she hasn't contacted me once - starting to wonder if the distancing is the right thing to do - it just seems if she thinks I'm moving on she will be happier with her decision - guilt free - it's like it makes it so easy for her.
Thinking about you today brother. Will be thinking of you tomorrow too. It will be a rough day but know that you have people on your side like us praying for you. Remember your dad. I lost mine suddenly 18 years ago and still kiss him but know too he is right with me at times. God bless intact and stand tall.
Also, I too wonder if my distancing makes it easier on her. Who knows....I think in the long run its will make it easier on us as hard as that is to see right now for us. Sometimes a little vindictive voice in me hopes she feels guilty and is struggling but I don't think that is the best way to think. We just need to remember who we are and our virtues and know we can hold our heads high.
Blesses to you and all your family who are hurting with the loss of your dad.
My heart goes out to you Intact. We're for you brother. Hope you got through the day okay.
Intact
Wondering how you're doing today. How did your son do? Hope it went as well as this type of thing can go. You were in my thoughts.
Thank you Spartan it was a very tough day for us all.
W was very warm towards all of my family - hugs etc but very cold towards me.
Unfortunately in the evening I did a massive backslide and sent her a text that said "I know deep down you know that this is all wrong - you are a part of this family"
She just text back saying "it's not wrong"
Like I said a massive backslide but I just have to put it down to the emotion of the day...
Intact, just caught up on your situation. So sorry to hear all that is going on in your life right now. Thoughts and prayers are with you! Thanks for taking a look at my posts....
Thinking about you Intact. Don't worry about a backslide. It is gonna happen but try to avoid it. I have had plenty but am better at it now and and have been able to control myself.... it is helping me. Not with the sitch, but with me. I have had plenty of comments like your wife's text back to you...many of them, almost word for word. It does not bother me as much as I know where it comes from. Act as if pal. Act as if.
JOURNAL
Very hard few days and I'm really struggling with detachment.
My W is still so cold with me - I don't know what I've ever done to deserve the coldness. I also wonder how I can ever get her to warm too me.
Had to email her today as our son wants us to do something together in Easter holidays. She replied with "perhaps we could meet for a game of football out on the pitch, that would be a good start" not reading anything at all into this as I suggested doing so eing on behalf of our son. Although I do plan to make sure we have a damn good time together!
If anyone has any advice on how I can get her to warm to me I'd really appreciate it. Thank you...
Okay, listen very carefully.
YOU cannot control someone else's emotions. YOU cannot "warm" your W to you unless she wants to.
Also, SHE is not cold to you. You just PERCEIVE she is. She will tell you that she is not. YOU can control this. YOU control how YOU feel. YOU allow this feeling of coldness to come over you. YOU have to learn to cope with this. Think of her like one of those people you see muttering to themselves on the street. If they came to you and started calling you names or ignore you, you wouldn't give it a second thought. YOU are the one who empowers the other person to have that control over you.
That's why you GAL to gain back your self-esteem. Strengthen yourself and it won't bother you.
Okay, listen very carefully.
YOU cannot control someone else's emotions. YOU cannot "warm" your W to you unless she wants to.
Also, SHE is not cold to you. You just PERCEIVE she is. She will tell you that she is not. YOU can control this. YOU control how YOU feel. YOU allow this feeling of coldness to come over you. YOU have to learn to cope with this. Think of her like one of those people you see muttering to themselves on the street. If they came to you and started calling you names or ignore you, you wouldn't give it a second thought. YOU are the one who empowers the other person to have that control over you.
That's why you GAL to gain back your self-esteem. Strengthen yourself and it won't bother you.
This is excellent advice thanks mr Bond.
Not a problem. Just to let you know, when my W was at her worst, I would imagine her as being that "crazy" person. It allowed me to detach and really just look at her. I would just shake my head, wish her well and walk away. It also helps when they are spewing at you. Once they find that they don't have that power over you, you'll see things much clearly and calmly and know how to react in each situation.
That's a good idea... The crazy woman.
Thing is my wife doesn't get mad at me, or shout at me anymore - it's just like she really can't be bothered with me. Which in fairness is probably the case.
She will get mad and yell again if she feels pressured in any way shape or form. Trust me, I have been there (am there). The perceived coldness is just a start pal. Best to heed Mr. Bond on this. I wish I had started this 10 or eleven months ago. And no, you don't deserve it, nobody does. She is feeling she doesn't deserve it either. But as everyone on here is saying, control yourself.
Thanks for the reply FloydMan - I don't think I put too much pressure on her to be honest - I think she would just find it so much easier if she didn't have to have anything to do with me...
I can't mind read but I do think she feels an awful lot of guilt - who wouldn't? I've also believed that she would of worked on our marriage if OM wasn't involved...
These days it's like she doesn't even want to be in the same room me, even see me and I'm sure that's easier for her - when she does see me she tends to get rather emotional.
Hope you are doing a little better pal.
Intact - How are you doing? What have you been up to?
Hi Spartan - I'm up and down at the moment but doing ok... How are you? Thanks for asking...
JOURNAL
W has seemed a little warmer to me in recent conversations - which have been few and far between. I know she is with OM now so trying to take my mind off it.
Strangely, 2 of her friends asked me last week if I would still take her back - chalking that up to a coincidence though...
I do still miss her dearly and will do especially tomorrow being Mother's Day - have bought her flowers and a dress scarf off our son - I hope she likes them.
Whilst detaching seems to be getting a little easier I do still find it hard... Especially the don't initiate contact as I'm worried this is more of the same behaviour from me.
Ok so hoping someone can help me here... Things seem to of very much stalled with my W so I was considering booking a DB coaching session...
I'm in the UK does know the correct number to dial and the cost please? Have tried the numbers on the site but it doesn't seem to work... I'm probably doing something wrong...
Saw W briefly today and she had a new ring on her wedding finger - that hurt a little. I jokingly asked if she was engaged and she just told me she wears the ring on whatever finger it fits depending on how cold her hands are etc. I think it's a little harsh personally, but there you go... The mind of a WAW.
JOURNAL:
Really struggling today, no idea why I'm just so sad that my W finds it easier and better to run off with OM than she does work on our marriage. I find it the saddest thing because in my heart of hearts I truly believe we would be happy together with my new changes...
Sometimes I think all of this is really done. I don't think anything could ever make her reconsider - she is so stubborn and the truth is she seems to be enjoying every minute of her new life.
Mindreading...
You have no idea whether she is enjoying every minute or if she's in misery and putting on a good face. Stop worrying about it because either way their really isn't anything you can do except drive yourself crazy.
Hard question for you: Do you love your W enough to want her to be happy even if she's not with you?
What type of things are you wanting to work on with the DB coach?
Mindreading...
You have no idea whether she is enjoying every minute or if she's in misery and putting on a good face. Stop worrying about it because either way their really isn't anything you can do except drive yourself crazy.
Hard question for you: Do you love your W enough to want her to be happy even if she's not with you?
What type of things are you wanting to work on with the DB coach?
Thanks spartan I know you're right...
I do love my wife enough, no question I suppose I just have this feeling that we could be very happy together - as a family...
As far as the DB coach goes I just wanted to ask what I should do next - she is x little warmer to me now - at least face to face anyway. Just thought a coach may be able to give me some new ideas.
Thank you for the advice - it is really appreciated - I know I need to stop mind reading - and this is what I struggle with the most...
Don't get me wrong, I wasn't questioning why you wanted to talk with a DB coach. Reason I asked is to make sure you had thought about what you wanted from the call.
I do love my wife enough, no question I suppose I just have this feeling that we could be very happy together - as a family...
I know the feeling buddy, I feel the same way. Something I had to realize is that my W doesn't share the same opinion as I do. The only way to convince her otherwise is to show her, through my actions, that a new M with me won't be the same as the previous one we struggled with. In order for that to happen I have to look at myself and change what I don't like before I can honestly expect her to take another look at us.
Have you made enough changes in yourself already?
Are those changes natural and a part of you?
Don't get me wrong, I wasn't questioning why you wanted to talk with a DB coach. Reason I asked is to make sure you had thought about what you wanted from the call.
I do love my wife enough, no question I suppose I just have this feeling that we could be very happy together - as a family...
I know the feeling buddy, I feel the same way. Something I had to realize is that my W doesn't share the same opinion as I do. The only way to convince her otherwise is to show her, through my actions, that a new M with me won't be the same as the previous one we struggled with. In order for that to happen I have to look at myself and change what I don't like before I can honestly expect her to take another look at us.
Have you made enough changes in yourself already?
Are those changes natural and a part of you?
I have made changes and for the most part they are very natural now...
She now knows that I am financially responsible - as I am paying for the house and all of the bills by myself. As part of my GAL I have started going to the theatre to see plays etc. I have really enjoyed this and I know it's something she's always wanted me too do.
I understand what you're saying with regards my W doesn't feel the same. But at the moment she has a OM and sees her Son 3 days a week - surely us working to live in a happy marriage where she sees her Son everyday would be better than her current life? It really does baffle me.
I understand what you're saying with regards my W doesn't feel the same. But at the moment she has a OM and sees her Son 3 days a week - surely us working to live in a happy marriage where she sees her Son everyday would be better than her current life? It really does baffle me.
Hmm....
It would certainly make sense now wouldn't it...
Only that is YOUR fix for her....not hers
Intact, IF she were to come back to you today, and ask to make it work....
Are you where you want to be ????
Are you to the point, where there is no chance that things would fall back into familiar patterns in a few months ???
Generally, there is a reason that these things take time.
It is so you BOTH can step away and heal...
That ^^^^ just sounds really judgmental to me
I understand what you're saying with regards my W doesn't feel the same. But at the moment she has a OM and sees her Son 3 days a week - surely us working to live in a happy marriage where she sees her Son everyday would be better than her current life? It really does baffle me.
Hmm....
It would certainly make sense now wouldn't it...
Only that is YOUR fix for her....not hers
Intact, IF she were to come back to you today, and ask to make it work....
Are you where you want to be ????
Are you to the point, where there is no chance that things would fall back into familiar patterns in a few months ???
Generally, there is a reason that these things take time.
It is so you BOTH can step away and heal...
That ^^^^ just sounds really judgmental to me
Thank you Mach I appreciate your advice - it wasn't supposed to sound judgemental but it is something that baffles me. It really is.
Honestly, I really think I am now in a place where I would never make the same mistakes again. I love my W with all of my heart, and if I had been told long ago that what I was doing or wasn't doing was hurting her I would of worked on rectifying it immediately...
I just think (and I know I shouldn't) that my W has now fallen in love with OM which seems to leave me with very little chance of reconciliation. I know, I know I'm mind reading but it is how I feel.
Intact, I feel the same way about my W when it comes to the kids. We have discussed 50/50 share but that seems awful to me. I can't imagine not seeing my girls everyday.
I too am awful about mind reading and it really causes me alot of grief. Some how we have got to figure out how to stop that.
Good luck.
Thanks Grizz - I wish you luck too. I have my son 50 percent of the time, and whilst I understand I'm lucky compared to other sitches, I hate not being able o give him a kiss goodnight every night.
No matter how much GAL I do, I miss my Wife and Son more than I ever felt possible.
It's amazing how the feeling of emptiness hits you. My W is still in the house and I miss her terribly if that makes sense. I can't wrap my head around not being able to kiss them goodnight.
They say GALing becomes easier the more you do it. But for now,?I am like you. It is hard to still not think about them even when out GALing.
Like you, I feel empty a lot of the time. It's catch 22 almost - when I don't have our son I miss him desperately, when he is with me I love it and have great fun but it is always in the back of mind that wife is with OM - I find it very painful.
JOURNAL
Just had a meeting with W she asked if our Son could meet OM. I told her whilst I can't stop her I feel it is too soon and a little inappropriate. She told me that "I had to accept it sooner or later as she thinks he's 'the one'" Horrible.
Nice stuff to hear that. She also told me how her Mother has said how she looks happier than ever and that her friends keep telling her I look miserable and rough. So much for GALing - I never look miserable or rough when I'm out and about...
With regards to the ^ above post she also said "it's different with him, I can be myself"
Just had a meeting with W she asked if our Son could meet OM. I told her whilst I can't stop her I feel it is too soon and a little inappropriate. She told me that "I had to accept it sooner or later as she thinks he's 'the one'" Horrible.
Is this the hill you want to die on ???
Just a simple question you should be asking yourself before you react to any situation.
You aren't always going to like her choices, and they won't always match up to what is perfect. You don't have to like them, although you do have to acknowledge them.
Be there for your Son, if/when he asks questions.
One important thing I learned, was that it isn't your job to facilitate their (wife) relationship. Your only job, is to NOT damage it.
I'm not saying it is right either, cause it isn't. Although it is her decision to make.
This guy will never be your Son's Father, no matter how hard he tries.....
Nice stuff to hear that. She also told me how her Mother has said how she looks happier than ever and that her friends keep telling her I look miserable and rough. So much for GALing - I never look miserable or rough when I'm out and about...
Blah, Blah, Blah.....bullschidt
This is why you don't talk to friends and family about this. You are gonna get a biased opinion, depending on what side of the fence you are on....
Want a pick me up ? Call your family...
Wanna feel worse ? Call her family....
YOUR opinion of you is all that matters, and you have really sukced at that up till now.
And make no mistake, she is running on pure emotion right now. when the dust settles ????
Things will be different. If YOU are different...
I just think (and I know I shouldn't) that my W has now fallen in love with OM which seems to leave me with very little chance of reconciliation. I know, I know I'm mind reading but it is how I feel.
Yea.....
Well "thinking" got you here didn't it ???
Stop thinking that you know what she is doing, or saying, or feeling...
Cause you really don't know...
If you did, I would be hittin you up for the winning lottery numbers...
This isn't easy, on either of you. She is reacting from emotion, and so are you. There is no reason for BOTH of you to do so.
Start applying the DB rules, and living them, so that you can act from rational , instead of REacting from emotion....
Just had a meeting with W she asked if our Son could meet OM. I told her whilst I can't stop her I feel it is too soon and a little inappropriate. She told me that "I had to accept it sooner or later as she thinks he's 'the one'" Horrible.
Is this the hill you want to die on ???
Just a simple question you should be asking yourself before you react to any situation.
You aren't always going to like her choices, and they won't always match up to what is perfect. You don't have to like them, although you do have to acknowledge them.
Be there for your Son, if/when he asks questions.
One important thing I learned, was that it isn't your job to facilitate their (wife) relationship. Your only job, is to NOT damage it.
I'm not saying it is right either, cause it isn't. Although it is her decision to make.
This guy will never be your Son's Father, no matter how hard he tries.....
Nice stuff to hear that. She also told me how her Mother has said how she looks happier than ever and that her friends keep telling her I look miserable and rough. So much for GALing - I never look miserable or rough when I'm out and about...
Blah, Blah, Blah.....bullschidt
This is why you don't talk to friends and family about this. You are gonna get a biased opinion, depending on what side of the fence you are on....
Want a pick me up ? Call your family...
Wanna feel worse ? Call her family....
YOUR opinion of you is all that matters, and you have really sukced at that up till now.
And make no mistake, she is running on pure emotion right now. when the dust settles ????
Things will be different. If YOU are different...
I just think (and I know I shouldn't) that my W has now fallen in love with OM which seems to leave me with very little chance of reconciliation. I know, I know I'm mind reading but it is how I feel.
Yea.....
Well "thinking" got you here didn't it ???
Stop thinking that you know what she is doing, or saying, or feeling...
Cause you really don't know...
If you did, I would be hittin you up for the winning lottery numbers...
This isn't easy, on either of you. She is reacting from emotion, and so are you. There is no reason for BOTH of you to do so.
Start applying the DB rules, and living them, so that you can act from rational , instead of REacting from emotion....
Thanks Mach - I know you're right. I do react from emotion - I've always been terrible at this. It was just stuff today that was all very hard to hear.
The thing is, I'm actually proud of the changes I've made - yes, they are still a work in progress but I very much like and respect the "new me".
Perhaps you're right and when the dust settles she may think differently... I hope so.
I do think her IC is a bit of a nightmare - I didn't like her when we went to MC as it seemed she just wanted to get my Wife out of the M. Wife now says that counsellor has told her we shouldn't be friends and we should only discuss things in a business like manor.
This might sting a bit....
Lay back and relax...
Honestly ?
Let me ask you this....
Why do you feel the need to say "honestly" before a response ??
Have you not been honest up till now ?
Any time I see the words "honestly" , or worse yet, "trust me" BEFORE a statement, or a sentence, it sends up a Red Flag for me. That you are trying to convince me of something that YOU aren't sure of yourself...
Is that the case ?
Are you not being honest ?
If you are, then I don't need you to tell me that you are being honest...
Or to "trust you"
Cause that makes me trust you less....
Words can mean more than you think they do....choose them carefully...
I really think I am now in a place where I would never make the same mistakes again.
There you are...thinking again...
Are you sure about that ???
I love my W with all of my heart,
Why ?
Why do you love her...
What does that mean to you, to love her with all of your heart ??
Define what love means to you ???
Does love equal obligation ?
Duty ?
and if I had been told long ago that what I was doing or wasn't doing was hurting her I would of worked on rectifying it immediately...
IF....
Pretty big word buddy....
If the dog wouldn't have stopped to crap, he would have caught the Rabbit...
IF...is why you are here, trying to understand, and I applaud you for that...
Now dig in, and find out for yourself, why you are here....
And go ahead, and say "but" one more time....
: )
Thanks Mach - I know you're right. I do react from emotion - I've always been terrible at this. It was just stuff today that was all very hard to hear.
"I know"
Like I said about words....
"I know"...
Well, obviously you don't know, or you wouldn't do that.
And "knowing" that you do react from emotion, and just because you admit it....
Makes it even worse.
Knowing it, and doing it anyway, gives you the excuse to practice poor behavior.
Stop allowing yourself poor behaviors, just cause "you know"
You're right Mach - I never realised before but I use the word "honestly" a lot. Even in conversation - I'll do my best to be more careful with my choice of words... I have been honest on here and with myself - although my feelings do change constantly on this roller coaster ride.
I love my Wife because she is the Mother of my beautiful Son. I love her because of what she has done for me and how (up until this) she has always been by my side.
Love too me is hard to explain... I want the best for her, I really do. I want her to have happiness and health. I of course, feel that can be achieved within a new relationship between the 2 of us.
I know exactly why I'm here. I took my Wife for granted. I pushed her away unless sex was involved. If I was in a bad mood I would take it out on her with snide remarks, and I wasn't financially independent. Yes, I can look back now and it is all too easy too see. I am ashamed and I am bettering myself - working on myself.
I have always been a "great Dad" according to my W - I feel at times I should have made sure we were still a "couple" as well as a family.
Mach, I genuinely want to thank you for your advice and support. It really does help me.
First off....
we should only discuss things in a business like manor.
Is this like a Victorian ?
Tudor ?
Ranch ?
Southern Plantation ?
I don't believe I have ever seen a business MANOR....
Okay, just messin with you there..
I love my Wife because she is the Mother of my beautiful Son. I love her because of what she has done for me and how (up until this) she has always been by my side.
Love too me is hard to explain... I want the best for her, I really do. I want her to have happiness and health. I of course, feel that can be achieved within a new relationship between the 2 of us.
So, is that the line you are gonna use IF she decides to make things work down the road ????
That is so romantic buddy <sarcasm intended>
Think deeper than that,
I know exactly why I'm here. I took my Wife for granted. I pushed her away unless sex was involved. If I was in a bad mood I would take it out on her with snide remarks, and I wasn't financially independent. Yes, I can look back now and it is all too easy too see. I am ashamed and I am bettering myself - working on myself.
Okay, so you feel guilty over being an asshat for years....
Is guilt the only thing keeping you here ?
Define the above question more clearly, and you may find a better source of motivation.....
Guilt will keep you stuck in a role that you may not want...
I have always been a "great Dad" according to my W - I feel at times I should have made sure we were still a "couple" as well as a family.
What about ....according to YOU ????
Mach, I genuinely want to thank you for your advice and support. It really does help me.
You may want to save that, for when you get all of your splinters picked out....
Jus sayin...
Thanks again...
Ok... You're right it wasn't the most romantic answer but my love for my W does include all of those things. Of course there is also a physical and emotional attraction to her. She is beautiful - she can me laugh and cry.
According to me, I have always been a very good Dad - this is the thing I am most proud of within my life.
I am not here because of guilt. I am here because of genuine love and affection for my W.
Intact
I hope you can think deeper than this. Mach asked you these questions and I'm not sure you answered them:
Define what love means to you ???
Does love equal obligation ?
Duty ?
The reason I'm posting to you is I've said some very similar things as you do. Think hard about this, does guilt partially define and drive your love? The word obligation had me spinning for days when I was peeling layers back. When you define what love means don't think of it in the context of just your W, what does it mean to YOU?
When I first came to this site a lot of it was because of guilt. I was a jackass for years and felt guilty for not being H my W needed or wanted. The guilt got me here but you know why I'm still here, because I'm loving the changes I'm making. My changes are for me and no one else. I feel better about myself than I have in years, probably ever. I don't think about changes being made to save my M any longer. With that guess what, I don't feel guilty anymore. I've forgiven myself and I know I did everything I could at the time with the tools I had.
We all want you to get to that point buddy. Most of your posts are either about your W, your W's thoughts, or telling us you know we're right about something. We want to know what YOU think, how YOU feel, and what things YOU want to change about yourself. It's hard work and I applaud you for being here, just dig deep and think about the questions being asked.
Ok, as a woman, the second answer didn't make me swoon either.
I mean, Dr. Suess can make me laugh and cry as well but im not in love with him...
Dig deeper...
I find 'love' hard to define actually. I think love is a lot of things - including putting that persons feelings in front of your own. Duty and obligation? Yes I think it is that too... Parenting together. Yep.
I do feel guilty about the kind of husband I was but that is not why I am here. I have made changes, and I feel good for them. They have benefited me greatly and whatever happens in my sitch I will continue with the positive changes...
How do I feel? It changes constantly. I always feel good about my changes. I miss my Wife dreadfully. I feel a little empty that the person I love so much has been driven away by my actions.
There are of course still things I want to change about myself, but I realise it will take commitment and time. I don't want to act out of emotion any longer.
Intact, I just read all your posts and wanted to say that I really feel for you in your situation. It made my heart ache. I just want to say I hope you find what is best for you, and if you decide your marriage is beyond retrieving, that you are able to find happiness.
Intact..
I see you standing at the edge of this cliff, wondering how cold, how deep the water under you is...
I see you wondering if you jump, will anyone be there to catch you, and to make sure that you are safe...
Nobody can guarantee you of that, and nobody can guarantee you that your marriage will work out, or end.
There are no guarantees in life, other than no matter what, you will face struggles and battles on your way. I have found that making that leap of faith, is the hardest thing you will ever do, and yet, it is the most rewarding thing you will ever do.
I can't tell you that it won't hurt, or sting, or cause you to look at things you could have never imagined looking at within yourself.
What I can tell you, that if you are going to do it, then stop Fing around and do it. Put your heart into it, and make it worth your time. Don't halfway do something that is this important. Don't not answer a question, because it is hard to answer...
What I have found, is that God gives us exactly the problems we need, to fix ourselves..
And I'm not gonna get all religious on you here or anything, just something that I believe in...
I will tell you, that I really do not need the answers to those questions either....those answers are for you. And you better know those answers when the time comes.
It would be really easy, to come onto a Divorce Busting website, and scratch the surface of what a reconciliation looks like for you, and scratch the surface of what exactly went wrong ( on your side of the street), and walk away, feeling better. Because you posted on a website...
The BEST way for a chance to save your marriage, is to take care of the shortcomings that you may have had, and change the things that YOU want to change, because you want to do better for the future, and to teach your Son how to do better.
Learn what Love means to you. Learn what respect, desire, kindness, compassion, dignity looks like...
Learn to define that, just for you...
Learn what it means to be controlling, manipulative, and co-dependent....
THAT is what I mean by digging deep....
Are you ready for that ???
Or is this merely a way to say that you tried ????
Intact, first I wanted to say I'm sorry about your father. I can only imagine how difficult that is.
I've just read thru both your threads and one thing comes thru over and over again, from your very first post to your last. Do you know what that is?
Wife wife wife wife....over and over. Wife did this, what do I do? Wife is seeing OM, wife said x, etc etc.
What about you?There are of course still things I want to change about myself, but I realise it will take commitment and time. I don't want to act out of emotion any longer.
So what are you working on.....for you?
You need to stop thinking in terms of "
if I do this, W will come back" and start thinking more like "
this is who I want to be."
My changes are for me and no one else. I feel better about myself than I have in years, probably ever. I don't think about changes being made to save my M any longer. With that guess what, I don't feel guilty anymore. I've forgiven myself and I know I did everything I could at the time with the tools I had.
Yes! I couldn't have said it any better.
I also totally agree with Mach1's point about God giving us the hardships we need, to make the changes we need to make. Maybe it just makes me feel better, but with that mindset, I can easily look at every difficult moment in my life and find the silver lining.
Thank you for the advice - I can promise you my heart is very much invested in saving our marriage if at all possible.
My changes haven't been to get my W back - although that was what bought me here originally thus while scenario made me take a hard look at myself. They are changes that I realised I had to make myself - whether my W returns or not could or would simply be a bi product of those changes.
JOURNAL
Another bad today. I think a lot of the trouble is because of this whole situation I really don't think I've mourned the death of my Dad and sometimes it all gets too much.
Today I am in a place where I don't know if I have the energy to continue with this attempt to reconcile with my W. If she is so certain that OM is "the one" is there really any point? Am I not just wasting time and energy?
I don't know... hate days like this.
Dropped my boy off at school this morning - I don't see him again until Sunday. It hurts him as much as it hurts me.
Intact, you have been through alot in a very short amount of time. You do need time to grieve. Try to somehow find time for this.
As they say, your W is in a fog. Of course that is what she is going to say. She has to justify her actions to not only you but to herself. Who knows if that is actually true.
You are the only one that knows if you want to save your M. But in the whole scheme of things, you haven't been in your sitch for very long.
Try to keep your head above water. Be there for your S. And take care of yourself.
Intact, you have been through alot in a very short amount of time. You do need time to grieve. Try to somehow find time for this.
As they say, your W is in a fog. Of course that is what she is going to say. She has to justify her actions to not only you but to herself. Who knows if that is actually true.
You are the only one that knows if you want to save your M. But in the whole scheme of things, you haven't been in your sitch for very long.
Try to keep your head above water. Be there for your S. And take care of yourself.
Thank you Grizz, I really appreciate your kind words and advice.
The truth is, I really do want to save my marriage. Perhaps my W is in a fog - if she is and it eventually lifts I want to be a different person. Not just for her, but for myself and my Son.
Perhaps my W is in a fog - if she is and it eventually lifts I want to be a different person. Not just for her, but for myself and my Son.
You and your son HAVE to be your main priority for being a better person, no buts allowed. I still get the feeling you're trying to change with the goal of saving your M. These changes have to be for you because you want the changes. There are lots of old threads where people changed to save M and ended up back here because they weren't real and things went back to old ways.
What have you been doing to keep busy?
What things are you working on (for you)?
Spartan - the changes are for me.
I have started meditating. I'm also looking at issues I have with my temper as well as trying to refrain myself from fixing things. I am ALS learning to be a much better listener - all these things are for me.
I am keeping very busy. My business is doing well, I am exercising daily, I have guitar lessons twice a week and I've joined a local book club.
I am making the changes for me and my future - of course I want my marriage to work but that would be a bi product, these are changes I would be working on regardless. I have seen my faults and I am trying my hardest to rectify them.
Thanks again for all if the advice and support.
Intact -
I read through your thread going back to about early february before your father passed. You remind me of myself a few years ago. At that time, I knew my WAW was in another R. She was sleeping in another room in the house for about 18 months and during that time I was desperate to save our M. I was a wreck - hopefully you are holding up better but under the circumstances I have a feeling it is very hard for you.
I was hanging on her every word, trying to get inside her head and mind read. Finally she moved out and I immediately heard from someone who saw her around town with OM. Then I knew I wasn't going to wait any more. It was like God touched me on the shoulder and said "Its time to let go". So I did. It was all I had control over as far as the R at that time - to let it go and move on. I ended up filing for D about 3 weeks later (to her shock and suprise which I thoght was strange).
I see that she wanted to introduce OM to your son. That is very painful. That was one of the things I dreaded most in my situation but it turned out that my kids never liked her BF at all, and actually lost a lot of respect for their mother as a result (I had 2 teenagers at the time and 2 more 11 and 13). Just remeber that there are things you can't control and let the chips fall where they may.
My read on your situation is that you really need to let go. I realize she filed for D and put things on hold, which I am assuming is because of your father's passing? Or, do you think she is having second thoughts?
If its the latter, you should probably step in and drive the D process yourself so she doesn't leave you hanging. I felt much better once I was in control and driving the situation even though the thought of initiating D had been horrifying to me the prior 18 months before she moved out.
Sorry that came off a little harsh - when I say you need to drive the D process if she isn't going to do it its because you need to take control. You can always decide to not go through with it if needed. At least you are then seen as actively driving the decision making process and in some kind of control rather than letting her drive, which may help your M in the end.
I know it made a difference in mine but at that time I had truly moved on. Its funny, but I read so many times that the WAW finally comes around once you TRULY let go, and that is at a point where you may have actually decided you don't want to stay with WAW. There is a clear truth in the situation - you have truly let go and then they want to come back when its too late (at least that is what happened to me). Maybe people who can act 'as if' don't need to get this far, and those are the ones who have hope of staying together.
Thank you trying - I really appreciate your comments. You are right I am having trouble detaching which leads me to constantly mind read.
Having said that the GAL is going well and I'm certainly doing a decent job of acting "as if".
The OM has damaged me without a doubt, especially when she stealing everyone how good and special he makes her feel etc. it had knocked my confidence badly.
The whole divorce saga was strange - and it happened before my dad passed away. In face when my dad died she was colder than ever towards me.
Basically, 3 weeks after she left she went to see a L and filed for divorce. I asked her under what grounds (there's only a few in the UK) she told me she was divorcing me for "unreasonable behaviour" I told her that I would not sign that and that I deserved more.
She turned up at the house the next day and told me she had stopped her L filing and I should file against her - she told me to file for unreasonable behaviour as its seen as the quickest route to D. I agreed to doing this and contacted my L.
The next night she turns up and says we shouldn't bother doing it, and just be legally seperated for 2 years - in the UK if you're legally seperated for 2 years you don't have to blame anyone. Her reason for this was "it just means no one has to be blamed".
It was all very odd, and I still don't really understand what it all meant.
She seems to be very concerned about where the 'blame' lies. Now I am mind-reading, but I would think she has either a little or a lot of guilt related to the situation. It may be even something subconscious that she doesn't focus on but it comes out in things like this.
Yes I think you're right - and I do believe she is guilt ridden.
Well W has just been round as our S is home from school sick. She was more pleasant too me than she has been in ages. Even offered to come to S football match with us both on Saturday - which I will take as a little baby step and internally celebrate...
Oddly (and yes I'm mind reading here) I had to tell her that 2 of our friends have seperated from their long term relationship - I'm interested in how she will feel about this as she has always held the belief that the woman in this relationship "has a thing for me" - perhaps that's why she was nice or perhaps it's just the DB dynamics - I have pulled away so she inches closer...
GOALS...
Ok I re-read DR yesterday and I've realised 2 things. 1. A physical affair isn't a deal breaker for me. It hurts but it is something I would work through should the chance ever arise.
2. I've been bad at stating my goals. My goals have been too big and general. Ie. get back together.
So I have a few goals I'd like to get too in the next couple of weeks and would appreciate any feedback please.
1. Have a conversation that isn't just about our Son.
2. I'd like my Wife to put a "x" on the end of a text too me - I know this sounds small but it's something I've noticed.
3. Would like W to stay a little longer when she drops S at home.
4. Would like us to do something together as a family with S - even if only for a few minutes.
I don't know whether these are at all achievable but I already feel better about having them. Any constructive criticism / ideas welcome.
Thank you.
JOURNAL
Detaching is going quite well and so are my 180s.
I'm pretty early on in my sitch but I do believe I'm already a better person. Still lots of work too do - but I'm getting there.
I do worry that I'll still be here in 4 years time, fighting for my marriage. What do people think about a DBing time limit. So, I say if there is not a decent amount of progress in one years time, then I walk away and stop trying to reconcile. I just don't want to be stuck in limbo forever... Obviously it will depend on how i feel though...
Also if people could give me tips/advice regarding my goals above I'd really appreciate it.
Thank you.
JOURNAL
Well, my WAW is being very nice too me - which is strange. She even had a coffee with me yesterday. I have greatly detached so either she now thinks I've moved on so it's safe to be friends or the dynamics of DB are really working; as I pull away she inches closer... We'll see...
Onto me, have a counselling session today regarding my temper and short fuse as this is something I'm desperate to fix for myself. I'm never physically violent but I do lose my temper by shouting etc. I don't like it, it achieves nothing and needs to be changed.
My S has been off school ill the last 2 days - I've really enjoyed having him at home. Quality time although obviously not in the best circumstances.
Tonight I'm going to get my new tattoo finished and then go to the cinema with a couple of friends which I'm looking forward too.
Professionally, my business is doing really well - better than it has years and I can safely say that I am not financially responsible (another 180).
I do find it hard to not internally celebrate baby steps without reading too much into things - this is something I have to work on.
Also, validation, I'm struggling to understand this and use it, if anyone would be kind enough to give me a few examples I'd very much appreciate it.
Thank you.
Would say I am "now financially responsible" not "not financially responsible" lol
Also, validation, I'm struggling to understand this and use it, if anyone would be kind enough to give me a few examples
I struggle with this too! DB coach told me yesterday that validation is all about making WAS feel like they can handle their own lives. Showing them we have confidence in their decisions - which is crazy because their decisions ruin families! But I can see the point, no forward progress if the trust isn't rebuilt in our spouses.
I'm in the same boat as you, where our conversations are only about the kids. So how can I be supportive and validate WAH decisions? It's super hard and takes a lot of effort.
Your coffee with W? Did you reach one of your goals and talk about something other than kids?
JOURNAL
Onto me, have a counselling session today regarding my temper and short fuse as this is something I'm desperate to fix for myself. I'm never physically violent but I do lose my temper by shouting etc. I don't like it, it achieves nothing and needs to be changed.
Good for you. My H has the same issue. It's very scary to live like that. My mom was the same, screaming, yelling, throwing stuff. I had started to do that this year during my unhappiness and have completly stopped. It's a struggle sometimes, especially with 2 small kids and being pregnant.
I do find it hard to not internally celebrate baby steps without reading too much into things - this is something I have to work on.
Our timelines are very similar. This was something I have struggled with too, once H started showing positive signs. I'd pull back, he'd respond...then I'd get too close, mildly pursue, he'd back off. Now, I've stayed pulled back for about a month. Even with the sex this weekend, I stayed pulled back. In my sitch, it has become more of a pain. Ha. Since he is still w/ OW and now actively pursing me as well. But, boundaries are my friend. I continue to be pretty dark. I don't contact him unless it's about the kids. I am still very friendly, joke, etc when we interact, but I end the conversations, physically leave first, etc. Sometimes it's hard, but you can do it!
Also, validation, I'm struggling to understand this and use it, if anyone would be kind enough to give me a few examples I'd very much appreciate it.
Thank you.
I also had trouble understanding this at first. AnotherStander has great examples when he shares. But how I understand it is this. Here is an example from friday. H: "I just hate myself most of the time. I feel really crazy. I miss you, I love you. I miss the kids. I just don't know what to do." What I want to say. "Well, you hate yourself because you are sleeping with another woman & breaking up your family. Stop that, focus on yourself and maybe you will stop hating yourself." What I actually said "It must be really awful to feel like that."
I think for men especially, they have a tendency to try to fix things. My H does all the time. I just want someone to listen and he tells me what I should do. I get now that he is just doing what he thinks is best, but just listen. It's REALLY HARD!!!
Thank you reb and tullula think I understand a little more now.
Reb - during our coffee our son was present but I did ask about her parents and how work was going etc. so a bit of a baby step I suppose but I wouldn't call it reaching one of my goals...
Tullula - I have stopped all pursuit of W and never initiate contact - she does seem a lot warmer towards me - but she certainly isn't pursuing me as your husband is you... In fact I think she is warmer towards me because she feels I have moved on - not sure if this is a good thing or not... We'll see.
Sme days I feel great at detaching - this afternoon I've really been missing her. Hate the way it claws you back - but perhaps this prevents us from dropping the rope completely?
Thanks again both for your words of advice - it is greatly appreciated.
"Sme days I feel great at detaching - this afternoon I've really been missing her. Hate the way it claws you back - but perhaps this prevents us from dropping the rope completely?"
It's up and down. I hate it, but each time it hurts less and lasts less time. Progress right? I think even when we decide to drop the rope and stop standing, it's going to hurt. We love these people. I think my H will always be a sadness to me, but one day I hope it's just a pang, and then my super hot rich young latin lover snaps me out of it
JOURNAL
Detaching... What a journey this is. Just when you think you're getting somewhere BAM!!
I think a lot of my trouble is, I've not forgiven my Wife I'm still so angry with her.
How can she split up our family? How can she just walk out? How can she be with OM when our son is hurting? Why is she putting all of this effort into R with OM instead of working on our marriage, our vows?
Not sure i will ever fully be able to forgive and I realise this is hindering me.
She told me the other day that OM makes her "sparkle" - she sees her son 2 days a week - is it worth it? I'm so confused.
GALing today - just meeting a few friends for lunch but at least it will get me away from the house...
Vent over.
Ok so looking for a bit of advice please.
Haven't initiated contact with my W for 3 weeks now but nothing really seems to be changing - it doesn't seem to have had any effect. Is this long enough to judge it on? Should I start mixing it up a little or just continue with the route I'm on?
Would really appreciate any advice.
Haven't initiated contact with my W for 3 weeks now but nothing really seems to be changing - it doesn't seem to have had any effect. Is this long enough to judge it on? Should I start mixing it up a little or just continue with the route I'm on?
Would really appreciate any advice.
Effect how ?
Cause it doesn't
appear to be working ?
On
your time ?
Or
her time ?
Haven't initiated contact with my W for 3 weeks now but nothing really seems to be changing - it doesn't seem to have had any effect. Is this long enough to judge it on? Should I start mixing it up a little or just continue with the route I'm on?
Would really appreciate any advice.
Effect how ?
Cause it doesn't
appear to be working ?
On
your time ?
Or
her time ?
Thanks Mach this is a good point. It just feels like since I have stopped initiating contact it has been easier for her to back away. I get worried because MWD says don't be afraid to change directions if things aren't working - I guess I'm wondering what is sufficient time to know if something is working or not?
Thanks Mach this is a good point. It just feels like since I have stopped initiating contact it has been easier for her to back away. I get worried because MWD says don't be afraid to change directions if things aren't working - I guess I'm wondering what is sufficient time to know if something is working or not?
You posted this on 3-20
Well, my WAW is being very nice too me - which is strange. She even had a coffee with me yesterday. I have greatly detached so either she now thinks I've moved on so it's safe to be friends or the dynamics of DB are really working; as I pull away she inches closer... We'll see...
So which is it ?
It's working, of it isn't ???
Just because change isn't in your face , doesn't mean it isn't happening...
How are things coming in your own sandbox ????
Thanks Mach, for 2 days she was ver nice - chatty, had coffee etc since then it's back to being cold. I'm trying to lovingly detatch but worried she will think I just don't care...
My own Sandbox is doing very well thank you. Have been GALing - went to a wine tasting event yesterday full of people I had never met. I have also been doing lots of work around the house. I have been to counselling to help me control my "short fuse". I am exercising, eating healthier than ever, spending lots of time with my Son.
I can say that apart from the issues with my W my life has never been more complete.
Thank you again mach.
Back to square 1 now!!!!
My S can home from school sobbing - when I eventually got him to talk too me he told me that whilst he had been with his Mother - the boy next door (4 years older) had made him "snog" him. Twice.
I quickly rang my Wife and she came over whilst MIL took S away for a few minutes. I had every intention of staying cool - until she said "I have to go now as I'm going to OM's house tonight" I was furious and told her that she was ruining our Son, didn't keep an eye on him and that she was an "unfit mother" - obviously not great DBing here but my emotions over the welfare of my Son massively got the better of me.
So here I am back at square 1 - but her inability to see the damage and pain this causes our son astounds me.
Intact...
I think that you should start looking into some support for your Son.
I would advise you to start finding some counseling for him.
I would also advise you to start journaling all of your interactions with your spouse.
I would also advise you to be in contact with the local authorities.
At this point, everything else takes a back burner to your Son...
He is more important than anything else....
I agree Mach - I have kept a journal since BD and everything is dated etc.
I think counselling for him would be a good idea.
Nothing is more important to me than my Son (including our marriage) I just wish she could see the pain this is causing him.
Thank you for the advice.
Um, wow. HUGS!!
And, yes, all about your son!! Authorities, probably. That would put this kids at 12, so this is not some little experiment.
Oh my.
I agree Mach - I have kept a journal since BD and everything is dated etc.
I think counselling for him would be a good idea.
Nothing is more important to me than my Son (including our marriage) I just wish she could see the pain this is causing him.
Thank you for the advice.
Intact....
I can only imagine your pain, and the fears that come along with what happened, and hearing him tell you about it....
Try to step back a little though, and try not to allow your emotions to take over here. Be realistic, and absolute in what you do.
And please...
Do NOT let the fear of hurting your marriage, keep you from doing what is best for him....
Thank you Tallula and Mach - I promise my son is my only priority here.
I just feel exhausted from it, meanwhile my W just wanders off to OM like nothing is wrong. I'm a little worried about her mental state at the moment too.
Haven't initiated contact with my W for 3 weeks now but nothing really seems to be changing - it doesn't seem to have had any effect. Is this long enough to judge it on? Should I start mixing it up a little or just continue with the route I'm on?
So here I am back at square 1 - but her inability to see the damage and pain this causes our son astounds me.
I just feel exhausted from it, meanwhile my W just wanders off to OM like nothing is wrong. I'm a little worried about her mental state at the moment too.
Intact, do you see a pattern?
Do you think you are taking care of
you first?
If you were already D'd, how would you want yourself to behave? What would you be doing differently?