Time for a new thread. Here is the link to my old thread and one's before that:
How many licks... Today after a lengthy conversation with my W about life in general and challenges we all face, I finally got up the courage after nearly a year and a half, to ask about the big "us". I had no expectations other than I needed to put this issue to bed one way or the other so that I can get on with my life.
First some background:
My W dropped the bomb back in September 2011. She said all the familiar things about being done, not being happy, never been happy, I'm the worst H, father, etc. She had a near nervous breakdown about a month later and I moved out. I later learned that she had been having an EA that turned physical after her bomb and to my knowledge ended months ago.
In late January she had a severe health crisis that nearly took her life. I helped nurse her back to health. Then around the April/May time frame, she ran a red light and t-boned another car. Again I was called upon to help her, which I did.
In the late summer she had a blow up with her elderly father while on a visit to see her family. She called me, very distraught and we talked through the problem and she was able to work things out with her father before it was too late. About that time I landed a consulting gig up in Maine and was pretty dim for about 3-4 months.
While I was away, my W turned 50 which is a huge milestone for most but especially for her. During weekend visits home from Maine, we'd often do things together as a family and when it was time for me to head on out, she would always give me a hug goodbye. Thanksgiving and Christmas were spent together as a family though no significant presents were exchanged. One thing that I thought at the time was HUGE was that she attended Christmas eve candlelight service with me and the boys. The previous year, she could barely bring herself to look at me.
Recently, she has been posting occasionally to my facebook page whenever she saw something she liked, (a photo, comment, etc.). A couple of weeks ago she sent me a text message about how well her most recent cardiologist check-up had gone. Apparently, she has recovered near 100% and we were both surprised considering her odds from a year ago. During the text exchange, I asked her about the other part of her heart, "emotional/relationship". Her response was, "getting better".
So now, back to the big "us"....
When I asked her about "us" her immediate response was that her feelings hadn't changed. I told her that I can't remain in limbo indefinitely. I told her that I had always been willing to do whatever it took to get our M back on track and that my biggest regret was having her get to a point where she felt she had to exit.
I told her that I want what is best for the boys and she agreed. She started crying. Said she is sorry for hurting me. I told her that for my heart to heal, I can no longer be the go to person in her life. That I will do whatever I need to do for the sake of the kids but it is time for me to move on. I can't see myself being in limbo for yet another Christmas.
I also told her that I really struggle with helping to get the house in a condition to sell. I said it felt like being handed a shovel and being told to dig my own grave. She nodded in understanding.
She said that if I wanted she would do the research on how to wrap things up as quickly and painlessly as possible.
And that was that. I told her I needed to leave and I'd see her later. After leaving, I felt emotions well up in me like during the time of the initial bomb, but it was fleeting. Sort of like I have some scar tissue on my heart and while it hurts, it doesn't hurt quite the same as before. That being said, all afternoon, Bonnie Raitt's "I can't make you love me" has been running to my head and it makes me very sad.
So anyway, this is where I'm at folks. I spent the past 17 months working on myself and trying to repair my relationship with my W. She had been sending signals that made me think perhaps she was willing to reconsider. But I guess it was a false alarm. The bottom line for me though is that I put up a good fight, made the effort and the sacrifice, but at the end of the day, it was too little, too late.
So onward I go, anxious to see what the tide will wash into my life in the months ahead. Time will tell.
2thepoint,
It is amazing you've help on as long as you have. I, too, feel like at some point I could be where you are. It's been 7 months since BD but a whole year since my H left our R emotionally (EA w OW).
I give you a lot of credit for asking the big "us" question of your W. BUt, you've done everything you could & you gave her all the time in the world to reconsider.
I'm glad you feel at peace about moving on. It is none-the-less still very hard! Good luck moving forward!
2, what is there to say? It's been a long haul. Sorry that it's come to this but we all know the odds when we step out on this journey.
(((2)))
A few hours after I opened my new thread, my W sends me the following text:
"Buying tix for Warm Bodies at 7. Do u want to go?" I responded as follows: "No thanks. You go ahead and have fun with the boys." The previous night I was going to take the boys to see the same movie but W didn't want to go. The movie ended up being sold out so we saw something different. But now she wants to go see this after what transpired earlier in the afternoon?!?!?
Later she sent another text:
"Lving at 7:30 2morrw to take S14 to predator. Going to gym at 10. S11 wld like to go if A is going unless u want him to go to church with u." I replied, "He can do whatever he wants.". And her response was, "Ok. You wont have to hear from me anymore. I'll drop him off at Jason's around 4".
Why must I always be the bad guy in all this?
So today, I've been feeling pretty lousy. I didn't sleep well last night. I also woke up with a headache that has stuck with me all day. Surely things should be looking better, right?
Has anyone seen my mojo? I know I left it around here somewhere!!
2tp so glad you are back.
U have been missed.
You helped the Us conversation perfectly and you seem committed to no longer living in limbo.
Your text response was completely normal and non adversarial. Of course she needs to look for reasons to justify her leaving and breaking up her family so she looks for the negative in everything.
I have been in a funk the past few days too. The only thing I can do is stay busy GALing, go to Alanon, read these threads and read other positive books.
For me I cant hang out with many people that are old friends because they tend to say the wrong thing. I need to stay positive and stay focused on my blessing in life.
YOu can do 2tp, look at how far you have come. You should be proud, your boys will day know what you were willing to do for them and their family. How you have been humbled but kept pressing forward. They are lucky to have such a strong and loving dad.
You handled the US conversation....
2tp, I'm sure it'll get better soon.
Somehow our S's always make us the bad guys. When I'd reply to H's text, in a friendly, but short manner, I'd be told "I'll never bother you again, since i'm obviously bothering you, I'll never contact you, it's obvious you don't want to talk to me", and so on.
No matter what you do, there's a chance your W could take it the wrong way. I wouldn't worry about it too much.
I've had my share of headaches recently. Hope yours goes away soon.
2tp,
Bonnie Raitt is right, and living with someone who does not love you the way you need to be loved is a little slice of personal hell.
She told you what you knew but didn't want to hear, so now she feels badly and wants relief from her guilt at the same time you need to grieve. Her overtures are about her seeing you okay with this so that she is not the bad guy. Unfortunately these gestures can give the LBS false hope.
If you want to give her relief act as if. If you need time to grieve, don't worry about it --these are her choices and you don't need to fix it for her. You do need to let her off the hook at this point and give up on temperature taking.
Don't wait to see what the tide washes in, paddle out in the big surf and take it!
ke it
Accuray great post. For some reason it was an aha for me - the part about how they want to relieve their guilt but instead it gives us false hope. I am sure I have read something similar but it really made sense this time
Glad BklynMom,
After the bomb W desperately wanted me to tell her I was 100% fine so that she wouldn't feel badly. That had really nothing to do with really wanting me to be fine -- it's about guilt relief. Despite their stoic appearance I do think the guilt is torture so they will try to reach out and pave things over. When the reaching out gets our hopes up, they sense it and deliver another smack down -- it's a push pull dance that can go on for a long time.
Accuray
Sorry 2- Give yourself some time to grieve before you evaluate what your next steps will be.
You are not alone good friend.
I hope you can reflect on how you handled yourself and this experience over the past 17+ months and be proud of the great man and father that you are.
Hey 2...
Thanks for posting this update re the discussion you had with your wife. I am starting year 4 of life in Limbo after the Bomb drop. Wife and I still live together post bomb, EA and PA.
It has been 13 months since our last relationship discussion and like you, I have the same feelings and questions. I really liked the way you framed the discussion and choice of words.
I am not expecting a response any different then the one you received, but I also need to move on.
Hey 2. Good to see you. I know, man. It hurts bad, sends us ruminating, robs us of our mojo. I know you know how to handle this. You handled it well beginning a few months after D-Day.
Like Accuracy said, drag yourself back to the board and paddle out -- there are some beautiful swells out there. Mmmmm....And, you are so money.
What's your next adventure, 2? Whatcha gonna do with your boys?
All good advice.
For now,"all I need are some tasty waves and a cool buzz and I'm fine." - Jeff Spicoli
Just kidding... I'll come back later with more.
If we're going to do movie quotes:
"Just paddling out in a big surf is total commitment. You can't just call time-out if you don't like the way things are going."
--Point Break
Thanks everyone, for the nice welcome back. I've been lurking and posting occasionally to other threads. But just didn't feel up to posting on my own thread until I felt like there was something new to post about.
If you want to give her relief act as if. If you need time to grieve, don't worry about it --these are her choices and you don't need to fix it for her. You do need to let her off the hook at this point and give up on temperature taking.
Easier said than done. Just today, W sends me a text asking about my availability in March. She wants to order basketball tickets. She also reminded me that it is spring break and she would like to plan a little side-trip. On the heels of our conversation from just 2 days ago, what could possibly be running through her mind?
Like Accuracy said, drag yourself back to the board and paddle out -- there are some beautiful swells out there. Mmmmm....And, you are so money.
Ha! I remember that one, Busto! I have a friend who tries to remind me of that from time to time. I just need to live it, breathe it, believe it!!
What's your next adventure, 2? Whatcha gonna do with your boys?
Good question. My plans for a high sierra camping trip last summer got bumped due to the consulting gig that cropped up unexpectedly at the same time. I suspect we'll try again this summer. I would like to try something else with them, like maybe a cruise or a ski trip or something like that. I'll have to see. These consulting gigs are coming fast and furious and the client up in Maine wants me back for another round. So planning gets a little difficult.
Speaking of catching a wave; surfing used to be my passion when I was younger. I've always wished we lived near the coast where I could teach the boys how to surf and watch the stoke build in them like it once did for me. I did recently take the boys to watch the movie "Chasing Mavericks" and they both thought it was mucho supremo!
Hmmm, maybe Costa Rica...
Accuray great post. For some reason it was an aha for me - the part about how they want to relieve their guilt but instead it gives us false hope. I am sure I have read something similar but it really made sense this time
Me too....H is just happy I am making the transition easy, I guess. He says he has a commitment to me (ie in terms of seeing me solid and on my own, and I know he is attracted to me) but really doesn't want to be here. So, I get the false hope all the time.
Wow...the US conversation. Good for you
If we're going to do movie quotes:
"Just paddling out in a big surf is total commitment. You can't just call time-out if you don't like the way things are going."
--Point Break
Actually, surfing is on 2013 bucket list....I know a bit, but from way colder climes lol. Hatteras in May, here I come, though!!
Thanks 2...I will rent it
Movie nite Saturday....
Love your idea about taking the boys to Costa Rica and teaching them to surf, what a great vacation for you and them. We have to make the most of every moment we have with the people we do have in our lives. (((((((((((((2tp))))))))))))))))))
Two, are you keeping yourself in limbo? Are you waiting for her to let you out of it? Why don't you decide what your relationship is with W.
If you hang out in March and buy baseball and movie tickets together because that's what you do with the mom of your kids, then good. If you find that friendship false and would rather make it clear that you're doing your own thing, what would happen if you get to define that for you and for her? Instead of waiting to see how she's defining things?
You've been in limbo for so long, and you're tired of it, and it's like you're asking her to release you from it. You got the powah.
And I'm curious too what your next big adventure is going to be. Must top Spain.
Two, are you keeping yourself in limbo? Are you waiting for her to let you out of it? Why don't you decide what your relationship is with W.
If you hang out in March and buy baseball and movie tickets together because that's what you do with the mom of your kids, then good. If you find that friendship false and would rather make it clear that you're doing your own thing, what would happen if you get to define that for you and for her? Instead of waiting to see how she's defining things?
You've been in limbo for so long, and you're tired of it, and it's like you're asking her to release you from it. You got the powah.
And I'm curious too what your next big adventure is going to be. Must top Spain.
GREAT advice, adinva. Really awesome post.
Starsky
Great advice Adinva
I trying learning surfing in tamarindo costa rica 6 years ago. It was fantastic. They made it as easy as possible for a city girl like me.
Thanks for the post, AD.
Two, are you keeping yourself in limbo? Are you waiting for her to let you out of it? Why don't you decide what your relationship is with W.
That is something I am working on, AD. For too long, W has been dictating the terms of our relationship, tossing out crumbs every so often and basically stringing me along. I'll be the first to admit that I've been a willing participant in the hopes that she would eventually come around.
If you hang out in March and buy baseball and movie tickets together because that's what you do with the mom of your kids, then good. If you find that friendship false and would rather make it clear that you're doing your own thing, what would happen if you get to define that for you and for her? Instead of waiting to see how she's defining things?
I think I was pretty clear that I would no longer wait for her to define our relationship. And frankly, while a friendly co-parent (hate the word by the way!) relationship may be how we end up, right now I am really quite tired of her getting to have her cake and eat it too.
You've been in limbo for so long, and you're tired of it, and it's like you're asking her to release you from it. You got the powah.
I'm not following you regarding me "asking her to release me from limbo." I pretty much told her that I was done being in limbo and needed to move on. So I'm not really seeing where you are coming from in this regard.
I'm interested in hearing more perspective on this.
2,
HI, thanks for posting on my thread.
Are you moving on in terms of filing for D? Or, are you moving on for yourself and making her do the "dirty work?"
It's interesting how the power shifts when we (LBS) take control of our own lives and make decisions for our own futures.
You KNOW you are going to see more pursuit behaviors from her, right? ANd, that they are just part of the same ol' cycle.
Your boys are similar ages to mine (although I have one more S9)...looking forward to planning adventures just the 4 of us!
Not up for surfing, but am somewhat adventurous. IDeas???
No, I'm not going to help facilitate the D. At least not now. She can do the leg work if she so desires. I'm just going to stop being there for her and I'm going to start living my life independent of her. I am making moves to get my own place (been living with a roommate for 16 months) so that my kids have a safe and comfortable place to go when they are with me.
It has been a slow process for me.
Here are a few adventure's to consider:
- Camping
- Canoeing
- Sledding if there is snow nearby
- Go on an archaeological dig (hey that sounds like fun to me!!)
- Climb a mountain
- Search for sea glass if you are near a beach
- Go birding
- Hot air balloon ride
- Visit a battlefield
- Lather, rinse, repeat...
Ah crap.....Mach posted to me.....
Hey 2, good to see you out and about here again...
You sound like you have come to a crossroads...
Good or bad, whichever it may be to you.
Kind of like the story of Robert Johnson ??
Did you sell your soul to learn how to play ????
I don't think that you did....now
Earlier you were, and I understand FULLY why and how. You weren't there yet, and you weren't ready to even think about it yet...
Your story isn't finished, and you are the one who gets to write the ending....
How is your crossroads different now , and how are you gonna get to where you wanna be ???
Just some...(as AmyC used to say)
DBing , Meat and potatoes....
Ah, the Mach 1 has arrived!
How is your crossroads different now , and how are you gonna get to where you wanna be ???
Well, the one thing that is very different is the fear is gone. I think it was Busto who once told me, lose the fear, lose the limbo. You may have said something similar. It was a long time coming, tied mostly to my need to find relevant work. But now that that issue seems to be solved (at least for now anyway), I can focus on moving forward without fear of what the future holds for me. I also believe my time away (3 months in Maine) was a huge plus in terms of helping clear my mind. With nothing to do but be alone with my thoughts, surrounded by the rugged beauty of the Maine coastline and in-land mountains, I found it to be a very cleansing experience. I also needed to be able to envision life beyond the misery I had been experiencing and that came about only after I began to regain my confidence. It is still not 100%, but I am miles away from the dark place I had been last spring.
So how am I going to get where I want to be? One day and step at a time, I imagine. That is all I can say for now. It will be interesting to see how my story develops from here. I'll keep y'all posted.
I think it was Busto who once told me, lose the fear, lose the limbo.
Love this 2TP. Thank you!
It is funny the things that stick with you. Applying those concepts though is where the real work begins. But once you get there a whole new world opens up before you.
Worked really helped me get my mojo back as well
We are so lucky to have our kids to share this great big world with
My in-laws live in snow battered NY and I usually check in with them from time to time, but particularly when they have significant weather events. So today I called them up to see how they were doing and I had a nice conversation with my MIL. We talked about the weather and the snow of which they received 2.5 feet. We talked about the boys, what I've been up to, what they've been up to, etc. Then she asked me about how things were between W and I.
I was a bit taken aback since this is the first time she has asked that question since the Thanksgiving following BD. I told her that W and I get along well enough and that we do things together with the boys but beyond that there was really no movement. She went on to tell me that he and FIL rarely have any conversations with W. In fact, she said that they received 2, one sentence text messages from her in the past month. I could tell that she was perplexed and saddened by where we are at the moment.
I told her that I may be taking another assignment up in Maine soon and if possible, I'd try to stop by to see them. She was very happy to hear that and then went on to say that she hoped to see "all of us" soon. I said that I was sure that W and the kids would be out this summer but I wasn't sure if I'd be able to make the trip. She said well, we'll just hope for the best.
W's behavior is so baffling. I can understand to an extent wanting to cut things off with me. That is her choice. But to cut off virtually all communication from her family, is just plain bizarre.
Thoughts anyone?
W's behavior is so baffling. I can understand to an extent wanting to cut things off with me. That is her choice. But to cut off virtually all communication from her family, is just plain bizarre.
Thoughts anyone?
Wait you are asking if your wifes behavior is bizarre?
Didnt you get the memo?
"But to cut off virtually all communication from her family, is just plain bizarre."
Exactly what my W did
I guess my point was, she cut off her family around the same time as BD. I would have thought things would have changed on that front by now. Guess not.
I guess my point was, she cut off her family around the same time as BD. I would have thought things would have changed on that front by now. Guess not.
My W did that too. She did not talk to anyone in her family about our sitch. Her sister was going through chemo and radiation treatments for cancer and I talked her her sister more than she did. It was many months before W started talking to her family again.
So 2, did she have a great R with them before? I don't talk to anyone in my family much and probably less since the S because I quit being a caretaker.
Your W's reasons may be very different but I wouldn't read a lot into it unless she went from spending lots of time with them to none at all.
Part of moving on is preparing a life for yourself. For me, that includes purchasing a bed. You would think that a simple purchase of a bed would come with no problems. But for me, nothing is easy! For some reason a wave of anger and resentment has swept over me today and I don't like how I'm feeling. Part of it has to do with the seeming finality of things, (one more step to truly dropping the rope). Which brings me to another matter.
My W and I are friends with this couple and their son who is about S11's age. We've know these people for 13 years or so. We've gone on numerous vacations together including Hawaii, The Grand Canyon, etc. They live about 100 miles north of us and so it is a commitment to make the trip to see each other. But we always made the effort.
After BD, W cut off all contact with these people and virtually everyone else. The boys and I were in the area January a year ago, and so we made a point of stopping by to say hello and have dinner together. I did not tell them about our sitch and so as far as I am aware they have no idea what has been going on. We were supposed to have gone on a cross country vacation together this past summer but things got in the way, including the consulting gig that popped up late in the summer and so nothing ever came of it. And, we've not been in contact in all that time.
But I've been feeling bad about what appears to be the loss of good family friends all because of my W's choices and my desire to keep family issues within the family. Yesterday, I see an email in my in-box from these friends titled, "checking in." I have not opened the email yet. I want to tell these friends what is going on and apologize for my/our obvious absence from their lives. But, I'm also reluctant to say anything because then it is one more person who knows about our sitch. But how can I acknowledge this email and then not disclose the reason for our loss of contact?
Over the course of our marriage, we have had several sets of friends with whom we have lost touch over the years. If I were to be honest, I'd have to say that the reason for this is primarily of my W's choosing. Her two best friends who were a big part of our lives when we were first married are pretty much gone. But I am the type of person who likes to keep friendships alive. My best childhood friend and best man at my wedding is still my friend. Another childhood friend is also still very close. And yet, who are my W's friends? She really doesn't have any.
And so.... here I am facing the stark reality of having to come to terms with the must have's in my life but don't, and the realization that in order for my own happiness, I need to truly move on. And yet, it pains me to think about my W, her lack of close friendships, cutting off her family and now cutting off the one person who is supposed to be her closest and best friend, me. I'm sad for her. What is she going to do when the boys are grown and they move on. Her parents will likely be gone by then as well. And then she will be completely alone. Is this really what she wants her life to be like?
Sigh!
I would simply apologize that you've lost touch recently, but that your wife and you have "been having some marital challenges." and add "But however those end up, I'd like to retain our good friendship, including the kids," and add that you hope to get together soon.
I wouldn't offer any details as to why you've had marital problems, but I also wouldn't lie to them if they asked. They sound like pretty close friends.
Starsky
2, I’ve only read the last few pages. My X cut off anyone that did not take her side and has consistently pushed family and friends to take her side. She continues to seek solace and justification for her decision. These efforts cause pain and most of the family has had enough. She is not a happy camper. She does not know how to be.
There comes a point when one needs to leave the drama and those that cause it behind and focus on building up ourselves using what is left as a starting point.
There is no good reason not to continue these relationships. There are many arguments for continuing these relationships.
Yeah it is difficult at first, and sometimes painful. Perhaps that is one of the reasons they don’t. I submit that is exactly why we should.
I agree there is no reason to go into detail.
2TP,
I don't see the value in withholding details from friends. This is not a short term thing and the experience is now part of you. There is no shame in it -- it just "is".
You need support, let your friends be there for you. Embrace it, the journey has shaped who you are and who you will be from here forward.
Accuray
2,
I agree w others who have posted about your dilemma w your friends' email.
I used to think the more people that know the more "in stone" this becomes, the more "real." It honestly felt good that people who were close to me after I told them. They have been so supportive, as I believe your friends would be too.
Don't give any details for now. You can always tell them more later if you want to.
Good luck!
No not withholding.
Determine what your comfort level is.
There is a difference between broadcasting and withholding.
YMMV. I was satisfied with stating fact, not broadcasting, answering questions factually as I perceived them, always careful to include that my facts, were my truth, from my point of view. Avoid the negative and remain factual.
Your truth is where you find yourself and how you perceive it. Others truth is colored by their perceptions.
I found it dissatisfactory to just have the facts without context. My sisters in law have been told nothing but H lives in another town. I've struggled with the lack of closeness that comes from being so vague and unbiased. They think I left him, or really who knows what they think, because they seem to be trying to let me reveal what I'm willing to, and I'm waiting for them to just ask.
So figure out what you want to be known, and tell that. You don't have to trash her, but don't go too far out of your way to protect their image of her because in doing that you'll sacrifice your closeness to your friends. I think you need that closeness.
That's just my experience and how I'd apply it to your sitch, I'm obviously still figuring this all out too.
I appreciate the ideas on dealing with the friend's email. Here's a little more context that was perhaps lacking in my original post on the topic. The friends consist of a man who works with my W, (they both telecommute). So he started out as a work friend for her and eventually evolved into close family friends. His W is a nice girl but my W doesn't care for her because she finds her too needy and annoying. I'm not bothered by her at all, perhaps because I'm more adaptable to people. Who knows?
So you have the dynamic of friends who started out close to my W, then became close to both of us. My W would just as soon ditch them both as is her habit. So, it really is on me to either let the friendship die or try to resurrect it in some new and different form. I prefer to resurrect the friendship but then struggle with the idea of unintentionally putting them in a position to choose between me and my W, much like her family.
I've seen it said here many times to be careful of disclosing too much or trashing the WAS for fear of it cementing things from which there is no hope of return. I've been very careful in this regard. What I choose to disclose will not be in the form of blame although as time goes on, it gets harder to maintain due to how I always felt people would come to conclusions about the sitch that were completely inaccurate.
Anyway, I guess I will share just the basics and see where things go from there., I really do value the friendship and hope it doesn't come to an end. It has been a year since there has been any contact with these people so I need to apologize for the absence as well.
2-
You have a lot of good feedback and advice going on here!
I personally used to fear the same as LittleGTO. That the more I shared, the more "definite" things became. It's not true. I have also always had issues with showing vulnerability and to me, sharing my situation and my pain meant that I would need to open up and show some of that vulnerability. I also feared people's reactions - would they reject me, my H, judge, etc. I was pregnant when H left, so I feared people thinking the worst of me, because after all, who would leave a pregnant woman, right?
All of the above - was just FEAR. Once I finally figured out the reasons why I was uncomfortable sharing, I was able to work through my fears and overcome them. The support I have found from those I chose to share with, which were only close people I could trust, has been invaluable. In fact, I know that I would have not made it without the support I have received and I am so grateful I allowed myself to be open, do a 180 and accept love and support from others.
I hope our experiences help you to at least feel like you are not alone, and hopefully also help you figure out the best approach for you in this situation.
I think the context was more meaningful to you than it seems to me as an objective observer. I think it was on you from the beginning to be friends with people you like, and it's still on you now.
If she's ditched them both, or not, or why, shouldn't really have any bearing on you separately being in contact with them if you like them.
You aren't really going to get to pick whose side they end up on, so you're not doing W a disservice or anything by reaching out to them as people you like. You're not doing W a favor or anything by not reaching out to them. They'll form their own opinions and be close to you, or not, for their own reasons.
The only outcome you might control is that they won't be close to you anymore if you don't reach out to them. It seems worth it to me to go be friendly with them.
I'm getting ready to contact a couple I haven't heard from in 12 years, because I keep thinking about them and how much I liked them and how interesting they were. I haven't heard from them because they were "H's friends from high school" and not "my friends" and when they seemed to drift away from H I didn't feel like it was my place to try to connect with them. Now I'm puzzled why I acted like that, and I'm going to see if I can find them.
When I do, they may reject me because they're "H's friends and not mine" even though they've been out of touch with him for a dozen years. It's worth a shot. Until I reach out to them they're definitely not my friends; if I do reach out, they might be and I might like having them back in my life. Most likely we'll reconnect for an hour or trade FB messages and drift apart again but I think I would like to at least let them know I'd like to hang out with them. I feel like that's kind of similar to your friends.
Yep, 2tp. I hid our marital crisis from family first and many friends later. For reasons I know you understand. And for a LONG time -- in some cases not disclosed until absolutely forced to (friends coming to visit and stay with me --- ummmm, where's your W? where's all her stuff?).
There was a close circle I had disclosed to. But, I can tell you, it was so cathartic when I peeled the curtains back and let the sun shine on it. And let my friends BE my friends. They will understand your absence -- when you tell them.
So I opened the friends email and was relieved to see the following comments:
"We miss you guys though. Summer is fast approaching. I wanted to check in and see if you had any plans...
You guys are always welcome up here if you want to come by sometime or we could come down if you guys were up to it. We are game for anything. Just really miss all of you. Let us know if you feel like getting together sometime. If not, we respect that. Just wanted to drop you a line and let you know that we are still thinking about you all."
Reading that, I felt encouraged and responded as follows:
"It is great to hear from you! I am sorry for being so silent for such a long period of time....
I am sad to report though that W and I have been having marital problems and have been separated for quite awhile now. It has been a painful time for both of us and frankly, the stigma attached to such an event really makes it difficult to reach out. I don't know where we will end up, divorced or reconciled, but it has been a long and painful process and thus we seem to have fallen off the map.
I have been thinking about you guys a lot and have really been torn about not seeing you since a year ago January. It has just been such a difficult time and I didn't know what to say or how to say it. I am very glad that you reached out though because I was afraid our friendship would have died and that would have been a sad day."
I was relieved to have finally gotten that out and was not sure what kind of response I would receive. Then I got this:
"Dude!!! So glad you replied. I was kind of thinking our friendship may have already died and I was struggling to figure out why. Sorry to hear about you and W. To tell you the truth I kind of suspected there might be issues between the two of you. Not the kind of thing I wanted to come out and ask about. I could understand W's silence but couldn't figure out why I hadn't heard anything from you. At any rate, I'm glad you were forthcoming about it...
Hopefully you two can work things out. We are friends of both of you regardless if you are together or not. No choosing sides here. So feel free to reach out to us anytime...."
Well, as you can see, that turned out pretty well. I'm glad he reached out and happy that I responded. One less monkey on my back!!!
What great friends.
And yes, that first step is hard.
So glad you got that ball rolling, 2TP. Sounds like a GREAT pair of friends!!
Remember, if you do decide to share more with them, you are NOT asking them to choose either you or your wife. You are asking them to choose (be in support of) the MARRIAGE.
Starsky
Remember, if you do decide to share more with them, you are NOT asking them to choose either you or your wife. You are asking them to choose (be in support of) the MARRIAGE.
Absolutely! Other friends have reminded me of the same thing.
So today I was thinking about what was going on in my life last year at this time. It had been 5 months since W dropped the bomb and 3 months since we separated. Oh, and W was in the hospital ICU with severe heart failure. She was literally on her death bed, or so the doctors believed, and so did I!
Fast forward 1 year and W is completely and miraculously recovered. Our M is still in the dumper but at least she has her health. Oh, and she got her dream breast reduction a few months ago. I wonder what things will look like next year at this time.
2TP,
Glad your friends were supportive, you should give them a call. There's a time to be stoic, and a time to let it all out. You've been in pain for a long time and there is virtue in accepting compassion from friends. I found my friends to be very supportive and that was heartwarming.
Accuray
Me too. Friends are good..especially the kind that stand with you without judgement.
I think another lesson here is that many times we project an outcome and the fear of that potential outcome prevents us from doing anything at all.
I feel that every time I force myself to face a fear it really isn't nearly as worrisome as I had envisioned.
With ya Pac!
I have a little dilemma and need some perspective:
Spring break is coming up and I'm considering a family vacation, (W and my 2 boys). Should I do it?
Here's a little context. My 2 sons play competitive sports which sometimes requires overnight travel. Even though my W and I are separated, we still attend these games as a family. When sharing a hotel room, we will do 2 queen beds with W in one and I'm in the other.
I recently asked my W about the big "us" and she said her feelings hadn't changed (17 months later) though she hasn't filed for D. I told her I need to stop being her fall back, go-to guy for things if she wasn't willing to work on the M. Our R in all other aspects is tons better than BD. I'm am making moves now to get my life a little more organized, get my own apartment instead of sharing a place with a roommate, etc. In essence, I'm moving on.
Considering all of this, and the fact that I have ZERO expectations about anything R related, is there any down side to this family spring break vacation? Upside?
I appreciate the feedback.
2,
I understand that you and w share a hotel room NOW.. but that WILL change once the Divorce is final? You realize that right?
The same thing goes for vacation. If you divorce, you won't be taking your w.
Why not just plan a vacation with your sons?
If she is truly giving you no feedback and you are telling her that you need to move on.. back it up with actions.
It's been 17 months.. don't you think it's time?
2 u know I have your back. But it's time to Rock the boat buddy. No more vacations sharing queen beds or anything. Yes to answer your question IMO. There is a huge down side to your plan. You are prolonging the healing pain and suffering. Let her go. And stop lying to yourself about not having expectations because we don't buy it. We are on to you.
There I said it.....
Why not just plan a vacation with your sons?
This is a great idea.
Leading the way, would be showing how you are going to survive without her.
Taking her along is enabling.
My .02
2,
I understand that you and w share a hotel room NOW.. but that WILL change once the Divorce is final? You realize that right?
The same thing goes for vacation. If you divorce, you won't be taking your w.
Why not just plan a vacation with your sons?
If she is truly giving you no feedback and you are telling her that you need to move on.. back it up with actions.
It's been 17 months.. don't you think it's time?
This ^^^^^^.
Starsky
Several opinions here...all care about you --all are valid -- mostly yours and your wife 's
Without discounting the others--I don't at all--they have GREAT points. Mine will get the yawn or eye-roll, so feel free to 'bring it'---
Give this vacation a stupor, ESP since its YOUR idea.....invite her, enjoy it, make a memory, if only for your kids. Let go of any and all expectations and see what you get that you can build on. If she will go, you have a lot more going for you than a lot of folks would give their eye teeth for, even if some folks don't agree.
Whatever you decide , we're on your side, you've done a great job so far.
Several opinions here...all care about you --all are valid -- mostly yours and your wife 's
Without discounting the others--I don't at all--they have GREAT points. Mine will get the yawn or eye-roll, so feel free to 'bring it'---
Kinda hard to "bring it" when you suddenly and completely arbitrarily MODERATE my posts. If "all (points) are valid," why not let them see the light of day -- immediately -- and let the original poster decide for themselves which is the best course of action?
I think 2TP is a big boy, and can handle it, don't you?
Starsky
How do you give a vacation a stupor? Sorry I'm not understanding.
How do you give a vacation a stupor? Sorry I'm not understanding.
That makes two of us.
that's right - we all care about 2.
But I'm interested to know why you are suggesting that dbmod. Divorce Busting is about doing what works. Being at wife's side is not working for him. We have seen 17 months of that.
She almost died and he was there for her every step of the way. He did this w/o expectations from her (at least none that he projected on her)
If that didn't change her mind - why would a vacation?
I can understand your point about creating a good memory and would suggest it myself if this would be early on in his sitch. But it's not and it's more of the same from him.
IMO - he needs to experiment with some 180s. A 180 here would be living his own life and letting his wife figure out on her own if she misses him enough to reach back.
Yes it's risky and may not get the answer he wants.. but it will definitely be an answer he deserves to know.
2, I think you are ready to go alone. Not going to be easy, but this is the first step.
You are remarkable, and I agree with everyone else when they say you have been above and beyond.
Create your own memories with your kids. They will cherish them just as much.
I see what dbmod is saying up there, and I think it may be worth a try...as long as it's done without any expectations, as always.
It may give you two a chance to be in a neutral environment, not brought together by any obligations, such as kid activities. If she agrees to go, then go as "friends". Maybe you can enjoy your kids together and may find some things to laugh about. She may appreciate little things you could do for her, like getting her a cup of coffee in the morning. If you go somewhere with spa services, treat her to something relaxing. Hand her a drink and tell her you'll take the boys and let her relax. Or, maybe bring cards, or other portable (non-electronic) games and ask her to join you.
Just be prepared that there is a very good chance that, even if she agrees to go, she will go with a wall around her. She may keep to herself and not engage too much. She may complain. Will you still enjoy your time away and not let her potential mood bother you?
I say, if you want to spend time away as a "family" and she agrees, then go for it...what do you have to lose? You and your W seem to get along well for the most part. Have a great time and enjoy your kids together. No R talk, no hurt feelings, no (sad) emotions...just plain "live in the moment" time. It might be really good for her to get out of the house.
I think it all depends on whether or not 2tP is still "DBing" and actively trying to save his marriage, or if he's "moving on" and wanting to co-parent civilly with his wife. How he answers that for himself should dictate his strategy. Cuz -- as someone else noted above -- doing these sorts of things have decidedly NOT led to reconciliation thus far.
Starsky
^^ couldn't agree more. 2tP, what's the consensus??
I think the consensus is that I should stay away and find something to do with the boys on my own. That is certainly easy enough to do but also seems like the easy way out.
I have to admit that I am truly conflicted here. On the one hand, I'm really quite weary of this entire episode of my life that has been going on for a very long time. I am taking steps to get my life on a track that doesn't include my W but does include more time with my kids. It is what I must do and it has taken me far too long to get to this point.
On the other hand, my W seems agreeable to a family vacation. For someone who was Done! Done! Done! it sure seems like a positive to me. I know that she recently told me after I brought up the big "us" that her feelings hadn't changed. However, a friend made a point that perhaps I caught her off guard and her instinctive reaction was to be defiant.
Regardless, a family vacation would be good for all of us, the kids especially. And, family time together after such a difficult year+ might be just what the doctor ordered. Maybe!
I've also been thinking about the length of time my sitch has been going on. 17 months is a long time but there are others here who had or have been at it longer and eventually came out the other end, some reconciled, some not. So, while I am making moves to get my life back, get my life on a track for a better future, I still feel like all the signs are there that this show isn't quite over yet.
I have another friend who's W has given him 2 years of he!! but she is not well. She is majorly depressed much like my W. And only now is she starting to take ownership of her actions and ownership of her need to dig herself out of the mess she has made of her life. She is making the effort. And if she can do it, I have to believe my W can too.
I hope I'm making sense and not simply being delusional.
I don't think this is a switch in the railroad track two, just a point along the way. It's not a make or break.
I could be wrong but it seems like your W has been very consistent for a very long time, and I didn't read her reaction to your recent conversation as accidental defiance. It seemed to me like not going would be more of a change for you than going. It would indicate that maybe you're not hanging around in limbo anymore, maybe you're OK with moving forward.
I would think having recently clarified things to you she might feel it's safe to take a family vacation without getting your hopes up.
I think it's wrong to try to base your decision on what she might think or do based on this or that. I think you've got to base it on what is best for you and your kids. Letting the limbo go a while longer? Or separate vacations?
I am wrestling with same, since my H wants us all four to go somewhere for spring break. Family time? A chance to show positives? Maybe even a sign of interest? Or refusal to accept the reality that we aren't together anymore? Or trying to force the "friends" goal that WAS has but LBS doesn't feel? Am I fixing, facilitating, kidding? Can I handle it or will it raise expecations? What if it's an overture and I brush it off? Who am I kidding, it's not an overture. I get it. I can't tell you the answer.
Unfortunately 2TP the post above is exhibiting hope and expectations. The WAS can smell expectations from a mile away and makes it their job to squash them. Your hope brings you up and the resulting disappointment brings you down. This is the rollercoaster you are oh so familiar with.
The only way you should go on that vacation is if you expect nothing, expect it will change nothing, and can be okay with that -- in other words detached. If you were at detachment I don't think you'd be posting about it because it would be inconsequential.
If you're going to go you need to start working on your mainframe now. Otherwise your expectations will not be met, your resulting frustration will become evident and things will spiral down. You know that's how it goes.
Prepare your state of mind early and leave hope and expectations at home, it's the only way it will work.
Accuray
i love how Ad put it, its not a switch in the track just a point along the way.
Neither decision is right or wrong both choices have some positives and negatives.
If you choose to continue on the limbo path (family vacation) can you live with that with no expectations. Will you promise to stop taking her temperature??
PS I am trying not to be envious that you have the chance to go on a family vacation
sort of jumping in late here..
so to clarify.. you are thinking of taking a family vacation for spring break with your W and boys. you feel this will create some positive family memories for them?
just wondering.. have you talked to them and asked them how they feel?
OK folks, I'm going in.....
I'm in Mexico at the moment with the family. So far so good. Truly no expectations on my part. I'm just trying to have a civil and enjoyable time with the family in a place that is conducive to some R&R.
There have already been a few rough patches along the way, like the day before our trip when W completely panicked, was convinced she had thrown out some expensive basketball passes for that evening and I went digging through 3 bags of trash looking for them, (I know, there I go again with the trash). Turns out they were in the back set of her car... of course!
Anyway, I'm here to have a good time with the W and kids and will keep you all posted as the next few days unfold.
It makes it easy when the resort bar is literally steps from the lanai. Now if the skies would only clear up, then everything would be perfect. Well almost everything.
Oh I'm soooo jealous! I love Mexico! Have fun
and get off your computer and mosey on over to that resort bar.
Family vacation over. I survived. Heart intact and unchanged. News at 11.
I'm very curious to know how it worked out!
yes, 2TP, how was your trip and how are you???
yes, 2TP, how was your trip and how are you???
The trip was ok, not great, but ok. We went to Playa del Carmen, Mexico. We had a nice room with 2 queens or maybe they were double beds. Wife and S14 in one, me and S11 in the other. The weather was unseasonably cool, (mid-70's and breezy). We ate breakfast, lunch and dinner together as a family every day with the exception of one evening when the boys decided to order room service and W and I went to dinner together.
Conversation was very light and non-controversial the entire trip. I made a point to be my most charming and funny 2TP possible which is really the way I prefer it. My W though sometimes brings out the worst in me, but we'll get to that another time. With dinner, I usually had a few glasses of wine. W always had a soda. I really wished she would loosen up some but I wasn't about to suggest it.
During the day while hanging with the boys on the beach, W would enjoy the occasional pina colada or blue hawaii and often went in search of sea shells. Because I am the adventurous type, it didn't take me long to figure out just how close we were to 5th Ave and all the activity there is along that stretch of coastline. I convinced the boys to join me on excursions and we discovered a hidden Mayan ruin behind a small hole in the wall hotel. We ate gelato every night. S11 would join me for my morning walks to Starbucks and always respond to my invitation by saying "it would be delightful." One day, S11 and I saw these crazy Mayan pole sitters who hung from unwinding ropes 60 feet above the ground. It was quite the sight and S11 couldn't wait to tell his mom all about it.
I think the hi-light of the trip for my W though she probably would never admit it, was the fish spa treatment her and S11 enjoyed. If you don't know what that is, it is a tank full of tiny fish that eat your skin cells. It is supposed to be invigorating, but the looks on their faces revealed a different story. It was actually pretty funny.
S11 also held a lion cub and had his picture taken and we all had a laugh when the guy said, "Come take a picture with the lion cub. When do you think you'll be able to see and hold a lion cub. It's not like there is another one around the corner". I replied, except of course, the other one around the corner, (there actually was another one right around the corner). So we all had a good laugh at that one.
Somehow on the flight home we all ended up in 1st class, (not sure how that happened, but it was a nice way to end the trip).
So here are some observations:
- W wore a heart shaped silver pendent with a pink pearl in the center that I had given her a few years ago. Not sure of the significance of that, if any.
- W put lotion on my back but had S14 put lotion on hers.
- I learned that my W has purged 2 other friends of hers, leaving her with zero friends that I know of.
- In the past 18 months, (including the time away in Maine this past summer/fall) I have missed out on a lot with the kids. They have formed an new life with their mother, new routines, etc. And it really makes me kind of sad that I am not there with them all the time.
- My W still waits till the last minute to do things that can and should be done ahead of time. And it still makes me crazy.
- I am finding that my feelings for my W are significantly diminished. This makes me sad and I wonder what am I even waiting for and why do I continue traveling down this DB path?
There is more to share but it is late and I am tired.
I do wonder though just how some of the vets who reconciled their marriage after a prolonged period, did it. I mean, after 18 months, I really feel like this ship has sailed and any feelings I may have left are not enough to rekindle any type of meaningful relationship. So, how can it ever be recovered? Maybe this is what my W was waiting for; for me to finally give up and move on so her guilt or whatever can be alleviated.
Anyway, I'm interested in opinions, perspective and feedback.
Ok meant to say that after we got back to town but while still at the airport, W got really snotty at one point and I just sighed which prompted her to make another snotty remark. I asked her why she has to be snotty? That I have been working very hard to keep my composure during some tense moments during the trip and why she can't do the same. Her response was " cause I feel like it!" After driving home in silence, I dropped everyone one off at the house and S14 went upstairs and slammed his bedroom door. Late this morning i got a text from my w that read, "I'm sorry 4 being ugly yesterday and hope it didn't ruin the vacation for you."
So there's that.
2tp....ah...the old, don't expect this to change anything, here's my rude remark to you...that is my personal fave. Almost as favourite as "Wow, things have been great, we are good friends, we chat, oh, let me pull away completely now."
I digress, but wanted to say I am glad you had fun and offer this: When I was conflicted about something, my H better not have been happy, or my kids. I always drew them into my feelings, because misery loves company. I mean, if I am not happy, then I don't want you guys to be. This was not conscious on my part but it was part of my behaviour for a very long time and at some point, I began to be conscious of what I was doing, but still did it anyway.
There would have been nothing H or kids could have done to diffuse my mood, not by being nice, calling me out on it, etc. The best I can remember is when they ignored it lol!! I came out of funk pretty fast
2, you and I have commiserated in the past about our perfectionism and control issues.
From my perspective, I'm so much happier since I've figured out that piece and let go of a lot of it because for the most part, it just makes my life more difficult and has a ripple affect.
There are times when those traits are useful but we have to figure that out and be able to use our "talents" judiciously.
After all this time why does this My W still waits till the last minute to do things that can and should be done ahead of time. And it still makes me crazy.[/b[ still make you crazy?
Can you adjust in some way so it doesn't make you crazy? My H and I had many uncomfortable (resentment building) moments in our marriage because he wasn't ready when I wanted to walk out the door. I wanted to be places early because the anxiety when I was late (or even just on time) was so uncomfortable I would go into b!tch-mode.
Do you know how many of those moments I wish I had back? What a waste of time.
And I've found that the world doesn't end if you show up on time. It doesn't end if you're late either. Life goes on.
If you were ever going to have a life with W, one of you would need to change on this, ideally there could be a compromise but right now you're the one who's DBing. What's the 180 here?
[b]W got really snotty at one point and I just sighed which prompted her to make another snotty remark Do you wish you had done this better? You both fell into your pattern of communicating. That "I just sighed" was packed with meaning. How about if you had said "W, I feel frustrated when you yadda yadda. The next time could we yadda yadda?"
Ad recommended the book Family Communications and I'm really getting a lot out of it. We can learn from our mistakes and show our kids a better way to communicate.
That was one of my early goals, that I could learn to be better so my kids could be better. I might not save my M but there are other just as important reasons to DB.
2, I know that's a bit of a 2x4 but I know you can take it and that you don't want friends just whispering sweet nothings in your ear.
((()))
Hope you can figure out what was supposed to be bolded. Did that just to mess with you and your perfectionism.
A question, how did you respond to her text apology?
It sounds like you and the boys had some great adventures. I loved those ages. Actually, I've enjoyed all the ages and stages but we had some really fun times at 11 and 14.
Bug - I understand your point about control and patterns. Short of stepping in and applying more control to help her with her "in the moment" crisis, all I can do is observe and try to not let it bother me. But it makes me crazy because it usually affects me and others who are around.
I mentioned in an earlier post about the episode with the basketball tickets that she was certain she had thrown away. She was in a complete tizzy over it. I calmly helped her through the crisis and I eventually found the tickets (after tearing through 3 bags of garbage). So I guess the 180 is to not get caught up in it but it is so difficult. And different situations lend themselves to different reactions and a sense of urgency.
There was a time years ago, when she told me that she prefers me to step in and take charge to get things under control. Guess that's not the case anymore.
Regarding my response to her text (and you should know that I was pretty worked up after the episode but not in her presence beyond what I described ^^^), I said "Don't worry about it. I hope you had a good vacation." She did not respond to that text, although later she invited me over for dinner, but I was already doing something else so I politely declined.
Congratulations on surviving a WAS vacation! I don't think you can rekindle a relationship with a WAS, because to your point, their behavior kills your feelings for them over time.
You need to wait until they are no longer a WAS and "just a person" again, because at that point they can exhibit some behaviors toward you that you may find attractive. You need to push the big "reset" button and that doesn't seem to happen until the WAS is *convinced* that you have moved on. As long as you're in the picture, you are the source of their discontent. Once you've moved on, then you can be "just a person" again too!
Accuray
Don't worry too much about feeling in love w her. You can work on that when the time comes. They are feelings and feelings can change.
Your trip reminds me of our trip to the Mayan Palace at Playa del Carmen before I got prego w S4. We had such a great time!
And since you're a perfectionist like me...
the men on strings aren't mayan. The ritual is called Danza de los voladores. They're from areas close to Papantla, Veracruz.
I tend to be a little miss 2cents. 180....keep mouth shut!
So 2, could you have responded to her text by saying something like "It's difficult traveling with kids, we were all stressed by then. (I'm mind-reading here because you didn't say what the issue was but I know traveling with kids can be trying)I apologize for sighing and rolling my eyes, that wasn't respectful."
You're bringing up resentments from years ago. If you can't let those things go then you can't have a R with her. You want her to change, chances are she isn't going to so the choices are you figure out how to deal with it or let her go.
But it makes me crazy because it usually affects me and others who are around.
Have you explored ways, even if only in your mind, you could work this out where you both get your needs met?
Because you know this will come up again. We can never find someone who meshes perfectly with us. Being in a successful R means being able to work through problems, and both sides have to give a little.
Sorry to hear that the trip was ok - not great.
Unfortunately I'm not surprised by the information you gave us... how do you use it to move forward NOW?
I know you mentioned wanting more time with the kids. Is getting custody on the table for you?
Are there any new 180's for you to explore?
And a response to the apology could have been. "Thank you for the apology. I really appreciate that".
Only say the 2nd sentence if you mean it. I wouldn't go as far as to apologize in return... but validating the action will go a long way - especially if your w doesn't apologize easily.
^^Agree^^
I always like to acknowledge things H says or does, a 180 for me. I don't apologize easily either, so when I do, it would be nice to have it validated, I think
She acknowledged her behaviour was unwarranted by apologizing, so a thank you for apology says that you appreciate the apology, and yes, behaviour was crappy. She knows it was, you don't have to justify it by making an excuse.
She knows it was, you don't have to justify it by making an excuse.
Ruby, help me here.
What that means is justification for behaviour (ie. I know it was stressful...) is unnecessary.
You can accept, and understand, but don't make excuses...you weren't rude, so the actions in that situation could have been different on her part. You can accept apology and still be okay. You felt the need to mention the rudeness, so it is something you are not blowing off.
I only spent a day with H and made an Old Ruby comment. Kudos to your W for only slipping at the end, and kudos to you for making the best of your vacay
It was me that asked.
I see his sigh as repeating old patterns and disrespectful. These are things (sighing, shrugging, eye-rolling) I'm trying to rid myself of as they are unfair and destructive.
What about meeting on common ground or seeing her need, evidenced by her remark and addressing it? I'm asking because I want to learn (2 and I share many common traits as I said earlier).
Ah....the eye rolling is always a p*ss off !! as is the sigh, makes me want to smack someone when I am in that kind of mood myself....
I think if you can see the need and identify at that moment, good...you can switch gears, muffle behaviours, and as for me, just ignore my behaviour. I think everyone's relationship is different. Addressing it afterwards is not effective simply because it's done. At least that is my thinking. If I apologize, then I am aware that my behaviour was crappy but have no desire to revisit.
Meet on common ground at time of remark? Sure. Like a laugh and "Geez spouse, I know what you mean, always a hassle with blah blah" or if one is at that point "That remark was hurtful, it's a stressful situation, but I did not warrant that remark"
For me, as I said, ignoring my little rude azz works best, I always felt badly and aware of my behaviour much more quickly when this occurred. Anything else would just cause me to justify my behaviour with more excuses and rudeness. That's my personality though....
I'm right here, BK. Got lots to tell, but will do so in a new thread. Wasn't expecting to see a post to my old thread. Thanks for checking in.
Looking forward to catch up
Wasn't expecting to see a post to my old thread. Thanks for checking in.
Thats what happens with those EXPECTATIONS!!
Two years ago on 9/30/2011 I was lost and in deep despair. Then I found a little book called Divorce Remedy which led me to this place of refuge, support and understanding.
A lot of water has passed under the bridge in the past two years. I've grown. I've improved. And I found ME again after a very long absence.
I'll have more to share when I post in a new thread. In the meantime, I just wanted to say thanks!
Whats up 2Pac!? Looking forward to an update.
And Thank you