My H and I are both in our mid-30’s, been married 8 and together over 12 years that included 3 years of long distance relationship across the ocean.
Last year was tough. We started trying for a baby and found out I had issues that required a surgery. After the surgery, I rushed big time to start an inf treatment right away because of my age. I started an inf treatment using injections and my hormones must have been out of control. In the middle of the treatment in July we were arguing about something and I was accusing him of how he doesn’t emotionally support me about this recurring issue we had. He completely broke down like I’d never seen and said we are not even in a healthy relationship to be having a baby. We sat down and talked but he just looked sad and distant. I had never seen him that sad. I completely admitted to my fault (which I’d almost never done before because I’m the kind of person in this relationship I always had to be right), promised him that I’d go to IC (which I made an appt within a week and gone quite few times) etc. We made up few nights later and we had an incredible intimate night. We stopped the treatment half way through. After that, things were going smoothly… or so I thought. I thought I was doing everything right after coming to a realization (i.e. initiating sex every Friday like it’s scheduled, planning mini trips for the weekends.)
He seemed to be happier at first but I noticed the sad face from time to time and I got rejected when initiated sex few times.I knew deep in my heart he was still hurt but I chose to think everything was getting better. I thought I came to a realization why he wasn’t happy, but the truth is I didn’t. I was so focusing on making up for my past actions that every new thing I was doing seemed forced/planned. (And I'm an incredibly organized person by nature) It may have looked to his eyes I was doing all that out of guilt only. The more change & effort I was making seemed to be making him even sadder. Another biggest mistake I made during this time was that I started showing him how sad I was about not getting preg anytime soon.
Fast forwarding to late Oct, his dad decided to divorce from his 4th wife of 15 years, which we had no idea about. His news did something to my H. He dropped D on me few days after, which completely shocked me. He told me he doesn’t expect the change to come overnight but he feels like his well-being is suffered. When we sat down together again he did tell me his dad telling us the news did something to his head. I really did NOT want to hear that. So our relationship will end because your dad’s action teaches you to leave your relationship when it’s in trouble? (I didn’t say that but that’s how I felt) He also said he felt we should not have a baby that will end up just like him (His parents divorced when he was little but he still remembers being passed around in parking lots etc) – it broke my heart. The first few weeks I did everything wrong. I asked him many questions, told him my feelings and tried to light up the situation and wanted him to see the light too. He was confused, he wasn’t ready and quite frankly I think he was already given up. He told me he feels weird around me, he feels different about me. I asked if he resents me badly and he said “no” really fast. He said he’s just really sad and he thinks he’s really damaged.
Around the time he removed his ring and started sleeping in the guest room.I was desperate. I was definitely not seeing any light like I did in July. I cried like I’d never have. My family and friends were worried and some of my friends strongly suggested that I should kick him out if he really wanted BD. My family (esp my mom) however opposed against the idea the whole time. My mom wanted me to be patient little longer. I was still going to ask him to leave because it was getting just too hard. On the day I was going to ask him, I changed my mind all of a sudden and decided to not ask him to leave.
After a couple of weeks of emotional hell, I snapped out of something and really started thinking about all this and myself. I started going for a walk alone, going to Starbucks alone, going shopping alone, taking Christmas pictures for my friends, working with animal rescue group etc. While spending lots of time to myself, I was able to really understand what he really wanted to tell me and what I chose to ignore in this relationship.
For the past 2 months, I really focused on changing myself. I think twice before I judge someone or something, before I say I don’t like something etc. Doing this has really helped me become calmer person. I was an extremely negative person before BD. I would even tell my H that I like to think everything negatively so if things don’t turn out the way I want, I wouldn’t be too disappointed. I mean… who wants to be around somebody like that? Now I think about it I must have been falling into a slight depression due to the baby issue. My whole family is in my mother country and I solely counted on my H for emotional support. Poor H, it was just too much for him.
Throughout the holiday, neither one of us brought up D or S. We went to his MIL on both TG and Christmas and had a good time. We were still sleeping in separate rooms but I’d make dinner on weekdays and we’d eat together, watched tv together, talked about other things, still went to eat out on almost every Friday night but just not going out together on weekends like we used to do all the time. He goes to his buddies house and I’d go work with a rescue group, go out with friends or just stayed home doing house work. Just few days ago he finally brought it up again saying he needs to continue on doing what he needs to do to be happy. He said it’s taking a toll on him by living like this, he felt distancing himself would help reinforce with me his feelings that he knows he’s doing the best thing for him and he’ll move out pretty soon. I still feel pretty desperate but strangely I feel somewhat relieved (?) to know something is actually going to happen. He’s right. It’s taking a toll on both of us. It was killing me to know know where his feelings were. Now I know he still wants to move out.
After knowing his feelings, it has become so much easier for me to kiss/hug him good night. For some reason I wasn’t scared of touching him anymore. Before I was too afraid to even touch him because I was afraid that I’d get rejected. I’d like to keep giving him a hug and a peck until he moves out but what I want him to know is that I’m supporting his decision all the way. The last thing I want him to think is that I started being physically affectionate because I want him to change his mind about leaving.
How can I be loving and still encourage him to move out?
I sound calm in my post but inside I'm a mess. I miss him so much but I'm DB-ing so I cry anywhere but home.
I am so sorry for the pain you are feeling. It is very difficult for him to know how to be in a relationship with his role model. Talking to a DB coach will help you come up with a very specific plan on how to go forward and interact in a way that will bring him closer (and not push him further away) and allow you to have the opportunity to get through to him on a different level. Please don't walk away before you talk to a coach...you will get clarity on the best way to handle your situation. Take good care.
Thank you Karen, but I already work with one
I can’t call him every day so I’m looking for additional support/advice here as well.
Sorry you find yourself here. Have you read DR yet? If so, how about the 5LL?
I think you are starting down the right track in taking a good hard look at yourself, seeing what you don't like and changing. That's really what's it's all about. What are your goals? What are your 180s?
With regards to family, they don't want to see you in pain so they always suggest getting out...it's the quickest way to end your pain in their mind. Careful of that advice. Typically, the recommendation is to basically let the WAS do all the work for D, don't bring it up, don't help them get there faster. Stay in the MBR (and the house!), don't push them to move out...let them decide how to proceed.
How young was your H when his parents D'd? I know that caused a lot of issues for me and my M. It's a path he has to walk alone and figure out, but if you can understand some of what he's going thru, it's easier to be supportive.
I have read DR and 5LL but can't say I read it from start to finish really thoroughly. That's my mission this weekend.
My 180 so far:
Doing everything around the house from g shopping, laundry, cooking etc:
Even before DB, I would cook every night. The difference is that now I never ask for help. One of my biggest things with him before was how frustrated I was if he doesn't help me in the kitchen. We both work full-time and I tidy up the house before I leave for work but still have to get to cooking as soon as I get home and he's at his computer. Also, we would ALWAYS ALWAYS go to grocery shopping together. For some reason I never liked shopping alone and I always went home first instead of stopping by at a market on the way home, ask my H to get ready and go to market together. I remember he mentioned once "How did you do this when you were living alone?" He was so right. How did I do this alone? I did live alone in a foreign county and did everything on my own. I even loaded the big heavy futon from IKEA into my car alone and brought it home myself.
Anyway, now I don't ask for help at all. Interestingly enough, now he comes to ask if I need help almost every time I cook.
As for g shopping, I go on my way home and I save so much time doing this. I can't believe I used to go home first, get him and get out. ugh.
Being more lady-like around the house:
I'm not gonna go into details but let's just say we had gotten so comfortable I forgot that I was living with a man that I wanted to seduce. I was acting like more like a sister. Now I do all the personal work out of his sight.
Getting out of the house:
My H always brought up how I don't have friends and I used to get so furious. I would fight back saying I had MANY many friends back home, how he doesn't know how hard it is to be in a different country and make new friends that you can totally be yourself with... but the truth is I never gave new people a chance. Luckily people find me likable and I have many good friends at work that truly care about me. I even had a few people at stores/restaurants that we go to liked me that they wanted to hang out with me but that's when I completely shut out. I liked the idea but always went back to "nah I'd rather spend more time with my H" If I don't give them a chance, how can I find somebody I can be good friends with? Now I'm reaching out to those people who wanted to hang out with me in the first place.
Doing something for others:
Before it was all about me when it comes to weekends. I always wanted to do something with H whether it was just a window shopping or going to amusement parks. If I could I would schedule seeing my best friend when he has a plan with his friends so I wouldn't miss my time with him. Gosh how dependent I was of him. I've always wanted to do some kind of volunteer work but never did because my time was more important. Now I help a local cat rescue organization every Sunday and help out whenever they need me for emergency shift. The work I do is definitely not glamorous or openly appreciated because it's the hidden work that supports the organization but it makes me feel ever better doing something like this to help those kitties be adopted.
I know I have more 180 I do but I have to get ready for work!
Again, as much as it hurts that we are in this situation, I'm almost glad that this happened because I would NEVER be where I am now taking a good hard look at myself.
With regards to family, they don't want to see you in pain so they always suggest getting out...it's the quickest way to end your pain in their mind. Careful of that advice.
Yes I'm currently really limiting myself to talk about details to my family and friends that care about me. I have to stick to my guts.
Typically, the recommendation is to basically let the WAS do all the work for D, don't bring it up, don't help them get there faster. Stay in the MBR (and the house!), don't push them to move out...let them decide how to proceed.
Should I not even say something like "How is the apartment seach going?" The last time we talked I told him to just let me know the availability of an apt he finds and we'll work out budget. I thought maybe mentioning something like that would tell him that I do validate and respect his decisions and I'm supporting them. I love searching anything (looking for a handyman, apartment, houses etc) but he, not so much.
Should I not even say something like "How is the apartment seach going?" The last time we talked I told him to just let me know the availability of an apt he finds and we'll work out budget. I thought maybe mentioning something like that would tell him that I do validate and respect his decisions and I'm supporting them. I love searching anything (looking for a handyman, apartment, houses etc) but he, not so much.
Do you want to stay married or no? If you do, that's one decision I wouldn't support. You can still be respectful, but I wouldn't be helping him find a place, or move, or D unless that's what you want. Ideally, you want to stay in the same house as long as possible so he can start to see the new you and you want to postpone D as long as possible so he has time to work thru his own issues.
I liked the idea but always went back to "nah I'd rather spend more time with my H"
I hear you. That has been my mode of operation for a long long time. I actually turned down sushi with my W the other night to go hang with my B....it was so hard! But, I've always been available to her so I'm trying to do less of that.
And you don't have to necessarily find a new friend right out...just try new things. I went to a wine tasting by myself last night and while I was a little uncomfortable at first (my W is the more social of the two of us), I ended up having a blast and got a nice ego boost from the fact so many women found me interesting.
After a couple of weeks of emotional hell, I snapped out of something and really started thinking about all this and myself. I started going for a walk alone, going to Starbucks alone, going shopping alone, taking Christmas pictures for my friends, working with animal rescue group etc. While spending lots of time to myself, I was able to really understand what he really wanted to tell me and what I chose to ignore in this relationship.
OK, well all this sounds really good!
For the past 2 months, I really focused on changing myself. I think twice before I judge someone or something, before I say I don’t like something etc. Doing this has really helped me become calmer person. I was an extremely negative person before BD. I would even tell my H that I like to think everything negatively so if things don’t turn out the way I want, I wouldn’t be too disappointed.
I can relate, I was like this as well. It sounds like you're doing a good job of 180's though. Just understand that it takes months of 180's before your spouse will believe they're not just done as tricks to get him back. Stick with them.
and I solely counted on my H for emotional support. Poor H, it was just too much for him.
If you want another book for your list, check out Codependent No More. I think you'll know why I'm suggesting it just by reading the title.
He said it’s taking a toll on him by living like this, he felt distancing himself would help reinforce with me his feelings that he knows he’s doing the best thing for him and he’ll move out pretty soon.
Sometimes separation is needed for the real healing to begin.
How can I be loving and still encourage him to move out?
It's his decision to make. Don't encourage or discourage him, just tell him you support him in whatever decision he makes, that you want him to be happy. If you've read Dobson's "Love Must Be Tough" this is what he refers to as opening the cage door. Your H feels trapped, so you want him to know he's free to go if he chooses.
Should I not even say something like "How is the apartment seach going?" The last time we talked I told him to just let me know the availability of an apt he finds and we'll work out budget.
It's OK to ask. You don't want to apply pressure, but things like this are just info, not really pressure. I asked W for an update now and then just so I'd know when she was leaving.
Do you want to stay married or no? If you do, that's one decision I wouldn't support. You can still be respectful, but I wouldn't be helping him find a place, or move, or D unless that's what you want. Ideally, you want to stay in the same house as long as possible so he can start to see the new you and you want to postpone D as long as possible so he has time to work thru his own issues.
I do! I do want to stay married, but at the same time I can see how it's taking a toll on him I thought it would help him to start seeing me in a positive way if he doesn't have to stay here. I think spending what it seems like a normal couple's time (eating dinner/watching tv together etc) but not sleeping in the same room is getting too much for him. In my mind though if he came back to MBR I would be all over him but I'm guessing he doesn't come back because he's not open to R or too shy (oh god I hope it's the latter but probably not)
In our relationships, I was always the one who initiated the first move. I asked him on our first date and I asked him to meet me after 4 months of break-up that eventually led us to marriage. That's why I feel like I should either help him move out or initiate LM if he were to stay longer... I'm very confused.
He said it’s taking a toll on him by living like this, he felt distancing himself would help reinforce with me his feelings that he knows he’s doing the best thing for him and he’ll move out pretty soon.
Sometimes separation is needed for the real healing to begin.
AS - Thank you for your input and more books for me to read! I read your threads recently and they are just so inspirational. I think both you and Breakdown are onto something. I don't think I should energetically encourage him to move out but my H seems kind of like your wife that his thinking time won't start until he moves out. He seems cold, distant and mostly sad.. that I don't think he can really think as long as he's here. AS - I saw in your post that your wife was cold and distant when you guys were under the same roof but you also said you'd spend a lot time with her and kids. How was it like? Did you do your own thing with or wo kids on the weekends?
He had a birthday recently and while I usually pick a card that says I love you and stuff but I chose a card that said wherever the year takes ahead hope it's happy.
oh! He called me "honey" today! He never called me by my first name since we've been married and before D dropped, but now he hasn't called me honey at all after D dropped.
Sigh.. I never knew a year ago being called honey would bring me this much joy. Oh I miss him so much.
I read your threads recently and they are just so inspirational.
Thank you so much! There will be a happy ending regardless, I hope that it's reconciliation but if it isn't I will still continue on with a great life!
I don't think I should energetically encourage him to move out but my H seems kind of like your wife that his thinking time won't start until he moves out.
It's really hard for a WAS to get the space they need if they stay at home. There are a lot of threads on here where the WAS has stayed at home and the relationship has been in a miserable limbo for years.
AS - I saw in your post that your wife was cold and distant when you guys were under the same roof but you also said you'd spend a lot time with her and kids. How was it like?
I knew from the moment of BD that W planned on moving out, so I made the decision not to detach until she moved out. While she was at home I would instead concentrate on my 180's. One of her complaints was that I was cold and distant during the M (she was towards me as well, but 180's are not about her) so I wanted to show her how things could be with a warm and loving me. It wasn't acting, BD really did transform me into a much more caring, warm and loving person. Anyway, I stuck with those 180's until she moved out and at that point I detached to give her the time and space she wanted.
Did you do your own thing with or wo kids on the weekends?
While she was still here we continued to do everything together. After she moved out we've continued to do some things together (things like S10's basketball games and D16's drill team performances) but also do things on our own with the kids on our respective weeks.
BD really did transform me into a much more caring, warm and loving person. Anyway, I stuck with those 180's until she moved out and at that point I detached to give her the time and space she wanted.
I know what you mean. I can't believe how calmer person I am today. I mean I always had to be right to be happy. When I got my way I felt accomplished but was I happy? Honestly I don't know. Despite the situation I can definitely say I am happier with myself. I've learned to let things go, be patient (very patient) and be more loving.
It's really hard for a WAS to get the space they need if they stay at home. There are a lot of threads on here where the WAS has stayed at home and the relationship has been in a miserable limbo for years.
That's my fear. I don't think he has a clear plan as to how and when to move out. I probably have more ideas for him at this point (how we do finances and how he should furnish etc) Of course I'm not going to help him with that but I'm just saying. I wonder if I should show him how we'd handle finances etc once he finds an apt so he can focus on finding an apartment... or am I helping him too much in my mind.. I like planning things! I can't help it
Feeling down today. The more I read his email he sent me last week the more I'm convinced he is done and wants to move out. The hardest part is he doesn't look/act like it at home. My perception of "done with somebody" would be he/she would not even want to see each other, talk each other or have dinner together..
If anyone has time to read my posts, please share your thoughts on LM. The literal 180 on that matter would be me initiating it but my H sleeps in a separate bedroom and I take the sign as "Don't even seduce me"
I've been doing good as far as improving myself - but once a day or so I have these moments when I feel really down. I was acting happy all morning and as soon as he went out now, I broke down on the floor.
I need strength.
I wonder if I should show him how we'd handle finances etc once he finds an apt so he can focus on finding an apartment... or am I helping him too much in my mind.. I like planning things! I can't help it
I'm the same way. When W decided to move out I did a spreadsheet for myself to figure out if I could even afford my house or not. I also did a spreadsheet of W's expenses. I did go over it with her to show her how tight things were going to get and suggested she might want to tighten her belt on extras because of it (and told her I was going to have to do the same). I don't see any harm in you figuring out the finances and sharing it with him, just don't expect him to change his mind if things are going to be tight, because the WAS is convinced they'll figure out how to make it work even if you show them they can't.
Feeling down today. The more I read his email he sent me last week the more I'm convinced he is done and wants to move out.
Just remember, that's how he feels right NOW. He may very well change his mind later, so don't be discouraged by that.
The hardest part is he doesn't look/act like it at home. My perception of "done with somebody" would be he/she would not even want to see each other, talk each other or have dinner together..
My W was the same way before she moved out. We still did stuff together, got along great (better than before BD in fact) and were even ML. But she still moved out. So just enjoy it while he's there, but don't have any expectations that it means he's changing his mind, because he probably isn't yet.
If anyone has time to read my posts, please share your thoughts on LM. The literal 180 on that matter would be me initiating it but my H sleeps in a separate bedroom and I take the sign as "Don't even seduce me"
I wouldn't push for it, it sounds like he doesn't want that right now. Let him initiate it if he chooses to, but otherwise let it go.
Journaling -
Last night's emotional breakdown was tough. I'm sure all the LBS (even WAS) must have their breakdown like that often.. I wonder how they deal with that. I just walked around the house not knowing how to cope with the sadness. Broke down on the floor and just cried for good 10 min or so. Before, when something like that happened I'd call my good friends but I'm really trying to refrain from it because I know what they are gonna say. "Get out, you deserve better" and that really affects my patience.
My W was the same way before she moved out. We still did stuff together, got along great (better than before BD in fact) and were even ML. But she still moved out. So just enjoy it while he's there, but don't have any expectations that it means he's changing his mind, because he probably isn't yet.
Us too. We get along great, like you said better than before BD because I'm much calmer and loving. I constantly have to remind myself to not have any expectations. I think because he's stayed until now I was beginning to think he may have changed his mind. Boy I was wrong.
You are so right about how WAS won’t be convinced about our positive changes in just a couple of months. I feel like these changes have now become my nature he can trust them. However I can’t say I don’t ever slip back to old habits. The way I interact with my friends I’m totally comfortable with is very similar to how I interacted with my H. My sense of humor was (is) mix of sarcasm and anger, and people found it funny when I was irritable with my H. My H and I would insult(tease) each other on fb (as jokes) and people loved it. I loved it too that we share such a quirky sense of humor and he seemed to enjoy it too.
What I didn’t know was that while the dynamic we created worked great as friends but didn’t work for our M. We’ve lost romantic feelings for each other and therefore our sex life suffered. I was always looking for “romance” and I didn’t understand why he couldn’t be romantic with me.
Going back to what I was saying: I should always remind myself to be kind and loving while maintaining my sense of humor; otherwise I’m just a mean person lol.
QUESTION, please share your thoughts...
Since I started DB-ing early Nov, I haven’t told/showed my H my feelings AT ALL and I don’t know if I’m doing this right.
I haven’t simply because I did not want to smother him with my emotions and wanted him to have his time and space.
When we sat down after D dropped, I poured out my feelings and said I now understand this and that. (I didn’t beg him to stay ) He didn’t say much and said “You talk like everything is going to be ok and I really don’t know” That moment, I knew I wasn’t giving him space for him to do the thinking on his own and my telling him my feelings was confusing him even more. Mind you at this time he wasn’t even interested in trial separation. It seemed like D was the only way to get out.
I was re-reading his email he sent me last week and I can’t help but to wonder if he knows my feelings for him and this marriage haven’t changed even a little bit? Of course I don’t want to tell him that I will be waiting but I wonder if I should let him know that this (D or S) is not what I want but I’m supporting your decisions (moving out) because I know it’s taking a toll on both of us. He didn’t mention D and only talked about moving out this time but I know I shouldn’t have expectations that he will consider R.
Because I try to look content at home I often wonder if he’s thinking if I’ve moved on or if I want to move on with my life w/o him.
I ask this because when we broke up before getting married, we were almost NC for 4 months. After 2 months in I said something like I’d be in your area but I wouldn’t want to see you (I only said that because I didn’t want him to think I was expecting something. I was still deeply in love with him.) Another 2 months passed and I was really going to be in his area but was not planning on letting him know. I ended up just mentioning it and he just wished me to have a safe flight. I was bummed and said “oh so you don’t wanna see me?” and he said “I thought you didn’t want to see me. Never mind then! When will you be here?!?” If I hadn’t said the last word, I still don’t know if we had ever gotten married.
Any thoughts?!?
Thank you
Since I started DB-ing early Nov, I haven’t told/showed my H my feelings AT ALL and I don’t know if I’m doing this right.
I haven’t simply because I did not want to smother him with my emotions and wanted him to have his time and space.
You're doing it right. It is important to share feelings in a healthy marriage, but in a broken marriage the LBS needs to conceal their emotions while trying to get the WAS to open up about theirs. The LBS needs to act "as if" everything is fine and always display a PMA.
Of course I don’t want to tell him that I will be waiting but I wonder if I should let him know that this (D or S) is not what I want but I’m supporting your decisions (moving out) because I know it’s taking a toll on both of us.
I kept wondering this same exact thing, after months of DB'ing and not talking about the R I was concerned that W might misinterpret that as meaning I wasn't interested in the R anymore. So I did mention it to her, but it didn't make a difference. She was still confused, didn't know what she wanted, blah blah blah. So it's up to you, but I imagine he still knows.
Because I try to look content at home I often wonder if he’s thinking if I’ve moved on or if I want to move on with my life w/o him.
Actually most of the old timers here will tell you that the WAS needs to think they might lose the LBS before they'll seriously reconsider what they're doing. So even if he does think that, it's not a bad thing for him to think.
Since I started DB-ing early Nov, I haven’t told/showed my H my feelings AT ALL and I don’t know if I’m doing this right.
I haven’t simply because I did not want to smother him with my emotions and wanted him to have his time and space.
You're doing it right. It is important to share feelings in a healthy marriage, but in a broken marriage the LBS needs to conceal their emotions while trying to get the WAS to open up about theirs. The LBS needs to act "as if" everything is fine and always display a PMA.
Thank you AS always for your inputs! I keep forgetting we are broken .. maybe because we interact with each other like nothing is going on except the nighttime. Somebody said before as much as his true feelings hurt, at least he’s being completely honest about his feelings to me about needing distance and needing to leave. I should respect that.
Journaling -
Even though we don't send each other funny texts or pictures like we used to, the text I send my H almost every night is to ask if we have ingredients that I'd like to use for dinner. I keep forgetting what I have in the fridge and text him from a market. Last night I asked him to check if we had pasta sauce in the pantry. He usually replies to me after checking so it'd usually take 3-5 min to reply back. This time he replied in a sec and said he just parked but he could tell me without going inside if we had enough pasta sauce. That put a huge smile on my face. - Just the other night we were joking about how much pasta sauce we had and we wouldn't need any for a while.
After that I started crying in my car.
I miss us so badly.
I’m having a hard time with my friends that care about me.
I’m supporting my H moving out and we are kind of working as a team about this. When I say that to my friends they don’t seem to understand why I’m being so nice to him about it.
Honestly I don’t have any reason to be mean especially when he seems to really care about me. If he was moving in with OW and taking our kids (referring to 2 cats we have) away from me against my will or something, yes I might have been little meaner.
I get they think I’m being a doormat but I don’t believe I am because he is not asking for anything unreasonable that I can’t bear but I do it anyway. I almost feel I shoudn’t tell them I’m just being patient and hopefully he’ll consider R with me in the future.
My H went to look at an apartment Sat morning. When he came back I asked how it was and he shared a lot of details. Old me before DB-ing would have been so quiet from the sadness and would have NEVER asked him how it was etc, so sadly this was my absolute 180. I'm showing him that I support his decision even though I don't like it at all. Like AS, it's hard for me to detach still because he's still at home and we are friendly while he somewhat remains distant.
Sun morning after I came back from a volunteer work, I made a pretty yummy breakfast for us. He enjoyed it a lot and took a time to tell me how great it was. I'm pretty domesticated and I enjoy all the housework incl ironing his shirts. In my culture being domesticated as a wife is very important we even have a saying husbands will always come home as long as you make yummy dinner every night. (even if they have an affair!) It might be a silly saying but I always believed it. He always came straight home on weekdays. I only hope he'll remember my cooking when he leaves and misses it. That's my goal at this moment.
As for separation details - my few friends that I share what's going on seems to greatly care if we discussed this will be a temporary or permanent before D. I'm counting on what my H said about distance reinforcing with me his feelings and clinging to a hope for R in the future, but I don't think it'd be a good idea for me to ask him now "So honey, would I consider this as a trial separation or what?" To me, that's pressure. To me, it shouldn't matter if it's trial or not but the important thing here is to just let him free however it is without asking for a "title" of this separation... but what do you guys think?
I'm just going to take it as a good sign that he didn't mention D anywhere in his last email a week ago. It must be still in his head but he didn't mention it like in his first email 3 months ago "I intend to file for D" I mean he wasn't even interested in "trial separation" at that time.
I've started squatting in the morning and evening. I'm pretty fit and my friends even give me side eyes when I say I need to tone my body. (They think I'm being modest.) But they don't know that I hide my flaws really well. I've always had a chubby bottom that may be appreciated here more but not in my country. I've carried the scar all my adulthood about how my good boy friends of mine would tease me about my chubby legs (not like bullying, but heavy teasing) growing up and I guess it was somewhat "ok" for boys to tease girls like that. When I was at my chubbiest in high school, a young couple at my age was walking behind me near a train station, the girl walked close up to my back, lifted her leg a little bit and asked her bf "Which leg is chubbier? I'm still ok right?" And the bf yelled at her back "Of course, your leg is much skinnier!" That incident haunted me and it still does. You would never guess that I have a complex like that if you just met me. The complex about my legs contributed to how insecure I am about my body image and confidence. I always felt not in a mood for sex after dinner because it made me feel fat. My H loved me, loved my body no matter what. My insecurity made me say no to sex quite often that resulted hurting him so very much.
So, although I don't need to lose weight like my friends say but I know I WANT to tone my legs so I can be so confident and rock mini skirts and dresses that I never did in my 20's.
My H went to look at an apartment Sat morning. When he came back I asked how it was and he shared a lot of details. Old me before DB-ing would have been so quiet from the sadness and would have NEVER asked him how it was etc, so sadly this was my absolute 180. I'm showing him that I support his decision even though I don't like it at all. Like AS, it's hard for me to detach still because he's still at home and we are friendly while he somewhat remains distant.
[/color]Like AS, I feel great hope in my ability to really detach and focus on me now that H is gone. I'm 3 days into my S. Good for you!! I helped my H with move and finding this place. I just don't talk about it with my friends. They all think its nuts.
Sun morning after I came back from a volunteer work, I made a pretty yummy breakfast for us. He enjoyed it a lot and took a time to tell me how great it was. I'm pretty domesticated and I enjoy all the housework incl ironing his shirts. In my culture being domesticated as a wife is very important we even have a saying husbands will always come home as long as you make yummy dinner every night. (even if they have an affair!) It might be a silly saying but I always believed it. He always came straight home on weekdays. I only hope he'll remember my cooking when he leaves and misses it. That's my goal at this moment.
As for separation details - my few friends that I share what's going on seems to greatly care if we discussed this will be a temporary or permanent before D. I'm counting on what my H said about distance reinforcing with me his feelings and clinging to a hope for R in the future, but I don't think it'd be a good idea for me to ask him now "So honey, would I consider this as a trial separation or what?" To me, that's pressure. To me, it shouldn't matter if it's trial or not but the important thing here is to just let him free however it is without asking for a "title" of this separation... but what do you guys think?
[color:#FF0000] I wouldn't ask. You know that drill, depends on the moment you ask him what his answer will be. I almost asked my H again, even though he constantly says "well, I don't want to have to buy this, cause when I move back we'll have 2." It's like we want a guarentee. We'll never have one. You know that. Just try to live in the now and limit what things you discuss with your well meaning friends. They don't get it. It would be pressure.
I'm just going to take it as a good sign that he didn't mention D anywhere in his last email a week ago. It must be still in his head but he didn't mention it like in his first email 3 months ago "I intend to file for D" I mean he wasn't even interested in "trial separation" at that time.
I've started squatting in the morning and evening. I'm pretty fit and my friends even give me side eyes when I say I need to tone my body. (They think I'm being modest.) But they don't know that I hide my flaws really well. I've always had a chubby bottom that may be appreciated here more but not in my country. I've carried the scar all my adulthood about how my good boy friends of mine would tease me about my chubby legs (not like bullying, but heavy teasing) growing up and I guess it was somewhat "ok" for boys to tease girls like that. When I was at my chubbiest in high school, a young couple at my age was walking behind me near a train station, the girl walked close up to my back, lifted her leg a little bit and asked her bf "Which leg is chubbier? I'm still ok right?" And the bf yelled at her back "Of course, your leg is much skinnier!" That incident haunted me and it still does. You would never guess that I have a complex like that if you just met me. The complex about my legs contributed to how insecure I am about my body image and confidence. I always felt not in a mood for sex after dinner because it made me feel fat. My H loved me, loved my body no matter what. My insecurity made me say no to sex quite often that resulted hurting him so very much.
[/color] Oh I could go on and on about body issues...and I'm a personal trainer. Ha. Ok, don't laugh. My IC had me start telling myself in the mirrow each day how I'm beautiful just the way I am. After 2 1/2 months...I really believe it. Try it.
So, although I don't need to lose weight like my friends say but I know I WANT to tone my legs so I can be so confident and rock mini skirts and dresses that I never did in my 20's.
[color:#FF0000]Go for it!! Start up a new class, start running, weight lifting. A great book for starting a weight training program is The New Rules of Weight Lifting for Woman. Couch to 5k is awesome. I love ZukaLight. She use to be on the bodyrock tv (free internet interval workouts). I'm a firm believer in HIIT workouts for toning and building muscle.
I'm new in my S, its hard in some ways, but better in others.
I wouldn't ask. You know that drill, depends on the moment you ask him what his answer will be. I almost asked my H again, even though he constantly says "well, I don't want to have to buy this, cause when I move back we'll have 2." It's like we want a guarentee. We'll never have one. You know that. Just try to live in the now and limit what things you discuss with your well meaning friends. They don't get it. It would be pressure.
How much do you tell your meaning friends about your stich? I need support especially from my best friend. She says she doesn’t want him hanging (She wants him to make all the decisions now) because it’ll hurt me more if he doesn’t. I’m actually thinking of having a heart-to-heart talk with my best friend because it actually stresses me out more than my R with my H to think I don’t have her support. I know she does whatever I decide but I can tell from her words and her expressions that she thinks I’m not over him even though he’s leaving. Um I am not and I will never be done with this M until it’s the end. Him leaving to me isn’t the end and apparently she doesn’t seem to see that way. She herself almost walked out on her H due to his alcohol problem last Spring, but decided to stay after he quit. She told me “I know you’d think it’s stupid but I’ve decided to stay” I said “Why would I think it’s stupid? I think it’s great” I was the only one out of her friends that told her to separate first and don’t file D while her other friends told her “It’s over, he’s not quitting, move on” It’s so wrong that we both think we wouldn’t be supportive of each other’s decisions/feelings. I think it’s time we talked.
Go for it!! Start up a new class, start running, weight lifting. A great book for starting a weight training program is The New Rules of Weight Lifting for Woman. Couch to 5k is awesome. I love ZukaLight. She use to be on the bodyrock tv (free internet interval workouts). I'm a firm believer in HIIT workouts for toning and building muscle.
Thanks for all the recommendations, I’ll definitely look into it.
Just a quick journaling –
I understand now more than ever why I have to work hard on 180 until my H moves out. I realized just tiny backslides from 180 would put me in a bad position.
One of my 180 I’ve been doing is to shop for grocery or any household stuff all alone. We used to go to g shopping together all the time. I hate shopping alone to begin with so I kind of made a routine for us to go shopping together all the time. Even when we come back from shopping, I kind of let him load most of the stuff into the house and put them away. I felt I did my part of coming up with menus and cooking every day I didn’t have to do loading part. Ever since DB-ing I go grocery shopping on the way back from work, unload all the stuff into the house, put them away and start cooking without asking for help. Interestingly enough, now I don’t even have to ask for help because when he seems me with all the bags he offers to help and I gladly accept it. It feels so much nicer that way. But just a couple of nights ago I came back with all the bags and I guess I just wanted him to interact with me so I asked him to go back to my car to help me with the rest of the bags. He didn’t look upset or anything but it just had a weird vibe. It was almost like we were right back @square 1.
I do this tiny backsliding often recently. When he was helping me with cooking one night I suggested that he used a different spoon than the one he was using. I know he does not want to be treated like a kid and my old habit just snoops back in if I don’t be careful.
No more backsliding so he’ll only have good impressions of new me when he moves out..
It's so weird how well we get along at home. It almost makes me feel that he's changed his mind about leaving - but no he's filling out an application for the apartment he went to see Sat.
We watch the preview of the next season's Walking Dead and realized it was coming back this weekend. I'm sure we both thought "Will we be here to watch it together?" The unit he's filling an application for is available now so he could move out this weekend.
I don't even know if I should stay home to watch him leave or be out of the house... If I'd do 180 on that, I would stay home and see him off with a smile. It would be hard as hexx but I might have to do that.
How much do you tell your meaning friends about your stich?
Only discuss it with friends that have no connection to your H. I've seen this happen over and over again here, people talk to their BFF "who won't tell a soul" and next thing they know they get an extremely angry call from their WAS who is pissed about being read the riot act by said friend. The WAS ALWAYS blames it on the LBS, they ALWAYS accuse of them of trying to rally people to their "cause". It's a huge backslide every time. So discuss it here, or discuss it with people you know have zero connection to your H. DO NOT discuss it with mutual friends or family. When talking to mutual friends or family, just say things like "we're both taking this time to learn more about ourselves and what we want."
It's so weird how well we get along at home. It almost makes me feel that he's changed his mind about leaving - but no he's filling out an application for the apartment he went to see Sat.
Don't read anything into it. My W was the same way, we got along great, better than before BD in fact. Even the sex was better. I often thought she had changed her mind. But she left anyway. What's going on internally is what is driving them. What you see on the outside is something totally different.
We watch the preview of the next season's Walking Dead
I LOVE that show! One of my guilty pleasures
as for what to tell well meaning friends
I said "we're facing a tough marital challenge right now, thanks for asking". If they pry,
then you have to decide if and what to share. Do NOT bring up OPs unless you think your friend won't give you their 'Decree" of what to do.
Always say "FYI, I'm trying to save my m and I DID play a part in where we are so bashing him isn't helpful" and remember to vent HERE, not to others.
They'll recall the worst things you tell them and you WILL have to hear their feedback. It makes it harder to keep the road home, paved & smooth.
You're smart to do your best 180s while you still are around him. Give him good memories to live with when he's gone,
do not fuel his reasons for leaving. You want to undermine his reasons for going, not confirm them. Make sense? That might mean being Mother Teresa for a few weeks, but it's good training and it's worth it.
Good luck.
Only discuss it with friends that have no connection to your H...DO NOT discuss it with mutual friends or family. When talking to mutual friends or family, just say things like "we're both taking this time to learn more about ourselves and what we want."
Hmm I've been talking to my best friend and best friend at work and my H know them but I wouldn't call them our "mutual" best friends so they don't have any contact, I'm good there.
I haven't asked any family member or his friends to "help" him change his mind. I just want them to be there for him because that's what he needs. Both my MIL and my H admit that they have issues with asking people for help or talking about problems. To this day I don't think my H called his parents to talk about his feelings about our M issue. He still has big scars from his parents divorcing when he was little, from his step dad's sudden death, from his grandpa's sudden death, feeling of abandonment from his dad and they were not addressed or healed because he hid them deep inside for a long time. I still believe they are not healed.
In my H's first email to me 3 months ago, he said he regretted that he couldn't communicate his hurt feelings with me (about our relationship) so we wouldn't be where we were.
I couldn't believe it. You regret...? But I'm still here. It was his way of dealing with big scars. It's too painful so let's just put a bandage on it and forget it.
When I told my meaningful friends about it, they all said the same thing. We all hurt, we all have scars from life that can't heal, but we deal with it and move on. I couldn't have agreed with them more
BUT I didn't have the rough childhood my H had so if either one of us has to step up and show him we
CAN heal big scars, it has to be me. I have to be patient until his scar from our M heals.
We watch the preview of the next season's Walking Dead
I LOVE that show! One of my guilty pleasures
Ours too! I cried like a little baby when Rick talked to xxx on the phone in prison.
As for separation details - my few friends that I share what's going on seems to greatly care if we discussed this will be a temporary or permanent before D. I'm counting on what my H said about distance reinforcing with me his feelings and clinging to a hope for R in the future, but I don't think it'd be a good idea for me to ask him now "So honey, would I consider this as a trial separation or what?" To me, that's pressure. To me, it shouldn't matter if it's trial or not but the important thing here is to just let him free however it is without asking for a "title" of this separation... but what do you guys think?
AnotherStander, did your w and you discuss what would the meaning of your separation was gonna be before she left? I know in your early posts your W was completely DONE but she still changed her mind after she moved out.
It's so weird how well we get along at home. It almost makes me feel that he's changed his mind about leaving - but no he's filling out an application for the apartment he went to see Sat.
We watch the preview of the next season's Walking Dead and realized it was coming back this weekend. I'm sure we both thought "Will we be here to watch it together?" The unit he's filling an application for is available now so he could move out this weekend.
I don't even know if I should stay home to watch him leave or be out of the house... If I'd do 180 on that, I would stay home and see him off with a smile. It would be hard as hexx but I might have to do that.
H has been gone since friday, last night was the first night I watched one of our shows without him. It felt good and bad all at the same time. He isn't here and he just ordered cable at his place, so I watched it. He got a 6 month cable deal. That also hurt. Ahh. I just keep telling myself that it won't hurt so bad eventually.
as for what to tell well meaning friends
They'll recall the worst things you tell them and you WILL have to hear their feedback. It makes it harder to keep the road home, paved & smooth.
You're smart to do your best 180s while you still are around him. Give him good memories to live with when he's gone,
do not fuel his reasons for leaving. You want to undermine his reasons for going, not confirm them. Make sense? That might mean being Mother Teresa for a few weeks, but it's good training and it's worth it.
Good luck.
Woo Hoo! I finally got an advice from 25yearsmlc!
Not that I meant to resist bashing my H to my friends, but I really didn't have bad things to say about him to them since this thing started, so I'm good there. I just repeatedly told them I know what he went through in this M and while I was certainly not the only one to blame for our problems, I had a lot to do with it because I was a stone-headed. They don't say bad things about him either but they just see me hurt and still see me try to restore M, they are frustrated for sure. They just always go back to "I just want to shake him! He should know how much you are trying"
But I think he's trying. I really do. It's very slow but he is. I have always been like the bunny in the bunny and turtle race. I should be the turtle for once.
He got a 6 month cable deal. That also hurt. Ahh. I just keep telling myself that it won't hurt so bad eventually.
It's better than a whole year deal!
I'm sure when I hear what kind of cable deals he get, I'd be crashed depending on the length. My mind is already wondering if the rate he was quoted for monthly basis rate, 6 months or 12 months!!!
I haven't asked any family member or his friends to "help" him change his mind.
Be very careful, because they will take it upon themselves to try and "fix" things. Like I said before, I've read many stories about how some relative promised not to say a word only to turn around and tell every other relative and then the WAS.
I just want them to be there for him because that's what he needs.
Actually what he needs is time and space, not just from you but from relatives and mutual friends too. I specifically told my relatives not to talk to my W about our marriage, I told them by all means talk to her about anything else but not that. The WAS does not want ANY pressure, not from the LBS, not from friends and not from relatives. Basically they want everyone to act like nothing is going on, because they already feel shame over it and anyone saying something to them just makes them feel worse and they want to lash out. And inevitably the target is the LBS.
I didn't have the rough childhood my H had so if either one of us has to step up and show him we CAN heal big scars, it has to be me.
Just remember, you can't fix him. Like 25 said, all you can do is keep the way home paved and smooth.
Ours too! I cried like a little baby when Rick talked to xxx on the phone in prison.
Ha! Yeah, sad and creepy at the same time
AnotherStander, did your w and you discuss what would the meaning of your separation was gonna be before she left?
We were in MC at the time and the C suggested a trial S. At first W agreed to that, she had a friend in a HUGE house whose H had just left, so I suggested she stay with her a while. After a few days she said that she would feel like a "hobo" if she did that and that if we were going to do S then it needed to be permanent. So when she did leave it was with the full belief that it was for good.
I haven't asked any family member or his friends to "help" him change his mind.
Be very careful, because they will take it upon themselves to try and "fix" things. Like I said before, I've read many stories about how some relative promised not to say a word only to turn around and tell every other relative and then the WAS. .
Thanks AS. I'll have to be extra careful. I'm fortunate enough that my in-laws love me so if the majority of his dad side family learns about what's going on with us the women of the family might say something pressuring to him. Thankfully though, because my H waited to tell him about his moving out until holidays were over no family member except his parents and mine (not here) had to know. We spent Thanksgiving and Christmas at grandparents’ house etc, and I know 100% sure they have no idea. I know because they kept asking about when we were having babies sigh..
I just want them to be there for him because that's what he needs. I didn't have the rough childhood my H had so if either one of us has to step up and show him we CAN heal big scars, it has to be me.
Actually what he needs is time and space, not just from you but from relatives and mutual friends too. I specifically told my relatives not to talk to my W about our marriage, I told them by all means talk to her about anything else but not that. The WAS does not want ANY pressure, not from the LBS, not from friends and not from relatives. Basically they want everyone to act like nothing is going on, because they already feel shame over it and anyone saying something to them just makes them feel worse and they want to lash out. And inevitably the target is the LBS.
Just remember, you can't fix him. Like 25 said, all you can do is keep the way home paved and smooth.
This is a very great advice, Thanks AS & 25. Apparently I have to often remind myself I can’t fix him even though my feelings and thoughts I pour out here shows that I still want to fix his problems. I didn’t and don’t understand why my H doesn’t reach out to his parents and talk about his feelings or vice versa, but I guess it’s a good thing then. I have a close relationship with my mom and she calls and texts me to check up on me and the status. Even though she tells me to be patient, she’s the most impatient person I’ve known and I know she wants things to go much quicker. When D bomb was dropped I took a trip back home and spent an entire week with her and man I was irritated the whole time! She just wants to do things now now now, and I realized big time this is EXACTLY what I had been doing to my H. I remember he would often mention how similar my mom and I were. All I was thinking last year was babies. I was rushed by my condition, my age, my Dr and my mom.
Now she knows that I’m taking this extra slowly but I know she’s frustrated. Just how I have to remind myself this will take time, I have to remind her every time I talk to her that it will take longer than she thinks and I’m ok with it. Thank god she’s in a different country. If she was here she might have been the one that ruins this all by rushing me and him!
I’m thinking deeply today…
Few things I can say about me is that I’m very organized, I am very particular about what I like and I’ve always liked criticizing things and people. I don’t think they are particularly bad traits of mine but what if you posses completely opposite traits and have to live with me 24-7?
I often remember an incident that happened to me when I was in high school. My friends and I were talking about something and I must have suggested something. My friend then said “Just because you think that’s the best way, that’s not the only way” or something like that. I don’t remember how I reacted to that but it stayed in my head to this day obviously because I saw truth in it.
If I were to characterize my H, he would be very laid-back, patient and take people who they are. People thought and still think we are very harmonized because we are so different.. but I think we were harmonized because he tuned into my traits for many years.
DB-ing is definitely transforming me to become a better person, more harmonized with anger, frustration, sadness, things I don’t like… but man I still have a long way to go.
Just a reality check
I’m thinking deeply today…
Few things I can say about me is that I’m very organized, I am very particular about what I like and I’ve always liked criticizing things and people. I don’t think they are particularly bad traits of mine but what if you posses completely opposite traits and have to live with me 24-7?
I applaud your bravery in looking within. I really do.
My only two observations are that saying you "always liked criticizing things and people" - honey, it IS not a desirable trait.
It's called being "critical." Honestly, no one likes it. Do you like being around other people who constantly or "always" put others down?
As for being "very organized" and that being a good trait, it is if you like that!! AND OR don't expect others to meet your standards in THEIR lives...
IF you are an OCD person OR someone who criticizes those who are different --than no, it's not. Others might describe themselves as more spontaneous and easy going than you, so to THEM, being "very organized" can be seen as rigid, controlling, obessive compulsive, etc.
Striking balance is important. Allowing others to be themselves is important. But the extremes of either can be seen as negatives.
I often remember an incident that happened to me when I was in high school. My friends and I were talking about something and I must have suggested something. My friend then said “Just because you think that’s the best way, that’s not the only way” or something like that.
I don’t remember how I reacted to that but it stayed in my head to this day obviously because I saw truth in it.
that's good insight about an incident to ponder...If I were to characterize my H, he would be very laid-back, patient and take people who they are. People thought and still think we are very harmonized because we are so different..
but I think we were harmonized because he tuned into my traits for many years.
you mean b/c he tuned OUT? I don't get your wording. You mean he didn't want to fight it out with you b/c he was conflict avoidant with you, or he didn't feel he'd get anywhere or what?
If there was no compromise & it was all done your way, then, isn't it easier to see what really happened? What do you think?DB-ing is definitely transforming me to become a better person, more harmonized with anger, frustration, sadness,
things I don’t like… but man I still have a long way to go.Just a reality check
Join the club of the flawed humans here!
Those who dig deepest may at first find some unpleasant surprises, but we grow the fastest and the most too...
if we stay with it. If we don't cut & run and begin the "blame game" b/c we're too ashamed by what we find, to face it.
Stay brave and you'll find that down deep, under whatever baggage you have (and we all have some --- til we deal with it)
can be handled.
Hi stilllooking up. Thanks for popping over to my stich.
'Those who dig deepest may at first find some unpleasant surprises'
Boy is this true! I have a pad full of them and things still pop into my head. Nothing particularly nasty, but situations/behaviours that you look back on and think urghh!
FWIW W did make some things up as well and in my sitch the knack was to find the truths or the elements of truth in what she said. But when I dig deeper I discover more and more about myself that I need to change!
Re S my W was also very clear we were done. I would not read too much into whether it is a trial or permanent. A WAS may say it is a trial to spare you the hurt, may say they are done to hurt you more or they may actually mean it...IDK, but point is it distracts you. Would you behave differently in your work here if you thought it was a trial or permanent? If he tells you then fine but IMO I would not push for this discussion.
'but what if you posses completely opposite traits and have to live with me 24-7?'
For the record your sitch struck me in that me and my W had a similar dynamic. W was the organised one, very particular in what she liked, critical of others etc etc and I was the more laid back one (too laid back). So we are opposites in the same sitch! So when you say your H tuned in I bet he did as I did for all these years and tuned out as 25yrs says! He let you get on with it for an easy life?
....but W came to resent this in the end as she shouldered too much of the burden at home.
Just some food for thought and sorry I could'nt be more help.
Good luck
I applaud your bravery in looking within. I really do. My only two observations are that saying you "always liked criticizing things and people" - honey, it IS not a desirable trait. It's called being "critical." Honestly, no one likes it. Do you like being around other people who constantly or "always" put others down?
I should have clarified it better. I agree with you 100% that is is NOT a desirable trait when it’s voiced often. However the reason why I said why I think it wasn’t a bad trait of mine was because that’s why I am good at handing finances, making good decisions at work etc. Essentially being critical is one of the traits that makes me who I am. I also believe being critical is the reason why I can look at myself deeper and analyzes good and bad. Having said that, it is NOT a desirable trait for others to handle and I can say I never held back. English is my second language and I had and still have an identity crisis living here. When I first came here, I was a quiet one because of the language barrier. I quickly learned that to make it in this country I had to be more assertive because everyone else was. I come from a culture where we would do what the next person does. We don’t like doing anything different. Coming from the culture, I had to make a serious adjustment to how I would behave and think. And apparently I had the wrong idea of being assertive. I thought if I voiced every opinion and criticism I would be perceived as an opinionated person. Fortunately though after awakening, I have been refraining from voicing my criticism whenever I catch myself. Of course I slip here and there but the most important thing is that now I am aware of how my being critical has affected my relationships with others.
As for being "very organized" and that being a good trait, it is if you like that!! AND OR don't expect others to meet your standards in THEIR lives...
Striking balance is important. Allowing others to be themselves is important. But the extremes of either can be seen as negatives.
This is going to be my lifetime challenge. Apparently and unconsciously I expect others to meet my standards. That’s why I get irritated and force them to do my way. I don’t understand when something so simple isn’t organized. But the funny thing is I’m so organized people who’ve seen our home say it looks like it’s right out of a magazine and yet I have a pile of unsorted papers in the corner of my desk, a pile of things I have to put up on ebay but haven’t and a bunch of expired groupon. You see, It’s just like my marriage. I told my H this too but I had priorities all messed up. I should have put him first before organizing, financing, house or baby. In my mind I thought I was organizing life events well. Get married, Organize house, Get finances together, Buy a house, decorate the house beautifully, fix it up beautifully, organize closets, get a surgery for infertility, get a baby and then, THEN focus on “us” Boy was I wrong.
Being like this affected the way I interacted with him greatly. I always liked everything planned. I would ask him to call his mother to ask about date and time for a party. If he didn’t within few hours I was irritated. After his breakdown in July I was game. I initiated a date night every Friday followed by sex. I mean every Friday night I initiated. I noticed he looked sadder and sadder and I didn’t know what I was doing wrong. I was too mechanical. Finally I understand after BD… he didn’t just want more sex, he wanted to feel loved. I love him from the bottom of my heart but I didn’t know how to show him. I thought having scheduled sex would show him I cared about him.
you mean b/c he tuned OUT? I don't get your wording. You mean he didn't want to fight it out with you b/c he was conflict avoidant with you, or he didn't feel he'd get anywhere or what? If there was no compromise & it was all done your way, then, isn't it easier to see what really happened? What do you think?
English is my second language so bear with me when I don’t make sense sometimes
You are right, I should have said he tuned out.
Again, since DB-ing I’ve learned to let go and go with flow more but like I said I have a LONG way to go still.
Thank you 25yearsmlc, your comments makes me think even deeper and deeper and that’s what I need to do right now
For the record your sitch struck me in that me and my W had a similar dynamic. W was the organised one, very particular in what she liked, critical of others etc etc and I was the more laid back one (too laid back). So we are opposites in the same sitch! So when you say your H tuned in I bet he did as I did for all these years and tuned out as 25yrs says! He let you get on with it for an easy life? ....but W came to resent this in the end as she shouldered too much of the burden at home.
wow so she couldn’t take it anymore and wanted D.. That really proves neither way wins. If we don’t have a balanced dynamic in our m, it doesn’t last. My H actually pointed out about that when we sat down after BD 4 months ago. I could not agree with him more. It was always my way.
Thank you for your comment. Don’t worry about not being much of a help. Any comment is a help
Journaling -
Right after his last email (my 1st post in this thread) in late January, he went to see an apartment and filling out an application. Then early Feb, his grandpa he (everyone) loves dearly went unconscious we were asked to come up to see him. My H who received the news from his mom called me at work and I could tell right away he was crying. I calmed and comforted him the best I could over the phone and we all went to see him later that day together. This grandpa is really extraordinary. No one can remember the last time he was angry. He was always laughing and joking and he’s just the most likable old guy I’ve ever known. His wife on the other hand is completely opposite. We can only remember her being mad at him but the dynamic worked for them. In fact it worked for them so well that they had been married over 60 years. Although it hurt seeing him in the state, it was more painful to see her by his side completely confused and sad. She kept walking to the bedroom where he was sleeping just to tell him “I love you, please open eyes one more time” It absolutely broke my heart. It broke everyone’s hearts. Few days later beloved grandpa passed away very peacefully.
Since this day my fear of touching my H and being affectionate to him was gone. (I’ve been so scared of even touching him since BD) His grandpa reminded me again how precious a life is. I can’t remember how many times I hugged him since this day til today. Whatever the situation we are in, I do not want to regret not letting him know that I love and care about him so much. Instead of not being able to tell him I love him, I hug him every morning now before he goes to work. Call me delusional but I feel somewhat closer to him. He hugs me back every time I hug him. It might not mean anything on his end but at least I feel closer and that’s all I can cherish right now. I know he’s still planning on leaving soon but the weird tension we had before is fading. I hope to carry this atmosphere until he leaves.
Rest peacefully, grandpa. Give us both strengths to get through this.
I know 180 is all about being counter-intuitive but what if my issue before DB was being counter-intuitive? Now I think about it more and more, that was one of my biggest flaws.
My problem is I think too much. I have a problem enjoying things the way they are. I'm definitely one of those people who acts after I think. Since when I was little I cared awfully a lot about how other people perceived me. Maybe because my older brother was a trouble maker and my mom would always tell me that she was counting on me?
If I see a TV commercial I think about the story behind it really deep and my H used to make fun of me. "Man the things that go through your mind!" Because I think too much I often told my H "You know honey I admire a sponteneous person but I've realized that's somebody I'll never be" If you've ever watched the TV show, Friends, I am just like Monica. I just can't seem to do something out of order because I'm so organized and planned.
While my H definitely appreciates some of my organizing trait (I know this because he answered so on a questionarrie in the couple's group class) I don't think he liked my ever-unsponteneous side.
Like my best friends have told me, I need to loosen up. I need to lighten up. Ha! No wonder people love me when I drink and get silly.
Hi Still,
Thank you for sharing your story. I can see how this situation is causing you to really look hard at your own actions, and how they contributed to the separation. I admire your ability to empathize with your H, and refusal to blame him, while still acknowledging the issues he is grappling with.
I am going through a similar situation, although my (now) exW has been gone longer. I find myself with almost eerily similar thoughts to yours and other LBS on these forums. I guess the encouraging part of that is, if our and the WAS feelings and thoughts are so predictable, perhaps the process of reconnecting via PMA and GAL, etc. really applies to your (and my) situation, and will gradually lead to positive change.
Hang in there. I'm rooting for you.
Hi azguy, Thank you for posting. I've said this before and I'll say this again but if this whole thing hadn't happened, I wouldn't have been able to find myself and do all the thinking and GAL. So for that I really want to thank my H. Don't get me wrong. This is the hardest thing I've ever had to do and I know some of my friends don't understand why I'm being patient. Well newsflash - they haven't been in our m. I decide our m is worth fighting for.
I've taken a quick look at your thread just now. I gotta go do my volunteer duty in a bit but I'm looking forward to reading more about your situation when I come back.
Still, I agree with you. I never would have asked for this to happen, but I've learned to move out of my comfort zone and become a better person. I still wish it hadn't happened, but I'm going to end up better because of it.
StillLookingUp, love that quote:
"I've said this before and I'll say this again but if this whole thing hadn't happened, I wouldn't have been able to find myself and do all the thinking and GAL. So for that I really want to thank my H. Don't get me wrong. This is the hardest thing I've ever had to do and I know some of my friends don't understand why I'm being patient. Well newsflash - they haven't been in our m. I decide our m is worth fighting for."
Kinda where I am now.
Still, I agree with you. I never would have asked for this to happen, but I've learned to move out of my comfort zone and become a better person. I still wish it hadn't happened, but I'm going to end up better because of it.
I'm right there with you! I am, actually let me re-phrase that.. I
was a very impatient, easily irritable person before this. Every little thing annoyed me and voiced it every time. I'm not a saint, so I still find some things annoying but I don't voice it and more importantly when I do come across something annoying, I've learned to be able to think "nah, whatever. There are more important things to care about" And that's HUGE for me.
StillLookingUp, love that quote:
"I've said this before and I'll say this again but if this whole thing hadn't happened, I wouldn't have been able to find myself and do all the thinking and GAL. So for that I really want to thank my H. Don't get me wrong. This is the hardest thing I've ever had to do and I know some of my friends don't understand why I'm being patient. Well newsflash - they haven't been in our m. I decide our m is worth fighting for."
Kinda where I am now.
Thank you, hotwheelsaust. Hang in there!
Just yesterday, I was talking with a co-worker who also is a good friend and knows my situation. I told her my mom is flying from overseas for my best friend's baby shower I'll be hosting. I also told her my MIL is also coming. And my co-worker immediately said "Won't your mom say something to your MIL? about what your H is doing to you" ??? What is he doing to me? Nothing. She is a mom also so I get she's speaking from a mother's perspective and she's in a protective mode for me. Again, this kind of comment tells me she's so frustrated that I'm being nice to H. She's a long time friend at work and seen I have been by my H side when he was unemployed 3 years etc so I totally understand she feels for me... BUT I can't let her frustration confuse me.
Anyway I see absolutely nothing wrong with them both coming to the shower because I haven't said anything bad about my H to my mom or his mom. Interestingly my mom genuinely understands what H is going through and my MIL is supporting me all the way. MIL has been my greatest emotional support through this. She understands that I'm giving H time and space he needs and she doesn't at all pressure him.
Journaling -
It is starting to hit me. I’m staying positive but the next few days will be really tough. H went to buy fridge and mattress at an outlet store early this week and he’s having them delivered today at his new place. He knows I don’t like hearing about anything to do with his new place too much so he’s being considerate and he just tells me that he’d be late for dinner because he’s going to an outlet after work or he’s going to work late because he’s having them delivered at his new place etc.
My friend and I went to see a musical last night and had a great time and I’m planning on continuing to do fun stuff with my friends more after he leaves. But I can’t keep track of the number of times I catch myself welling up just out of blue throughout the day. I usually manage to pull myself together and think happy thoughts but that’s going to be tough the next few days.
On the brighter side though, he’s definitely more engaged with me. This morning he turned away from his computer and asked how the last night’s play was. That almost NEVER happened, even before D was dropped. I was usually the one who would just tell him what I did today when he was still playing games on his computer. I usually had to ask him to pay attention to me when I talked. He continues to wait at the door before he leaves house for work because he knows I would hop on a couch and give him a hug(quite a height difference), hugs me back tight and rubs my back.
I think I will have to ask him tonight if he’s moving out this weekend because I know he was planning on leaving once he got appliances. I have to stay positive but I’m not gonna lie here.. it is hard.
My H unofficially moved out Sunday. He rented a truck in the morning so I thought he would be using that to move stuff out of the house but he just used it to pick up mattress etc and returned it so I thought he was not moving out that day. Well I got excited for nothing. He started loading his computer and some clothes in his car that I knew for sure he’d be out that day. There’s no way he can last a day without his computer because it is his life. He just uses his sedan to move stuff without anyone’s help so he’ll be making many trips back and forth – That’s why I said he unofficially moved out Sunday. It was getting dark out and he told me he would be spending the night at his place that night. I already knew that but I nodded and he came closer to give me a hug. It was a long, tight and loving hug that I started crying in his arms. I didn’t hop on a chair this time so I don’t think he saw my crying face but my whole body was shaking from crying. I pulled myself away from him because I didn’t want him to see my face and also because I was ready to collapse on the floor. Pulling away from him was all I could do. I couldn’t say anything else. We both said nothing and I started walking to the kitchen and he walked away to the garage. After I heard the door closed, I collapsed on the floor.
It was the hardest night of my life, bar none.
He stopped by last night to grab few more stuff. I wished he wouldn’t come by last night because I was not feeling well and lying down on the couch. The last thing I wanted to see was for him to go back and forth to load more stuff. He just came in, saw the diaper cake I finished making on a kitchen counter and gave me a compliment, grabbed his belt and shampoo and left. As usual, when he got to the front door I hopped on the chair to give him a hug. Again it was a pretty long tight one. I felt he was not letting me go when I was ready to pull away.
I am sadder than ever and still wish he didn’t have to move out.
Having said that, I can’t deny but feel relieved and even little excited that I’ll have all this me time now to work on myself.
Right after D was dropped 4 months ago, I implemented 180 right away and it seemed to be working for a while, or so I thought.
But for my H, letting him guess my whereabout, GAL etc were not really working. It was making him further away.
Ever since I went back to letting him know my schedules, hugging him and kissing him occasionally on the forehead etc, I have felt much closer to him. Now he’ll be out of the house that I’ll really be able to focus on my GAL.
It’s been over a month since my H moved out. When he came back to grab hew more things the next day he moved out, I helped to carry some stuff to his car in the garage. We were saying bye and he said he’d give me a call when he comes to get the stuff in the garage. Whenever he mentions getting the rest of his stuff my heart sinks. I know that’s what “moving out” means but I guess deep down I want this S to be just temporarily so badly that I know I’m hoping he doesn’t have to take the “rest of his stuff” to his new place.
It’s been over a month and so far he hasn’t come back to get “the rest.” One thing I’m being really careful about is that I don’t send a wrong message. I’ve read some posts here that making changes to the house etc made WAS think that we’ve moved on and scare/upset them so I haven’t touched his stuff in the garage, his hobby desk etc at all. He also still has the key and remote to our house & garage and he lets himself in whenever he has to come get his stuff (mail, packages that he ordered before he moved out) He does let me know via text beforehand that he needs to come, I say ok and he lets himself in. Some people might have problem with that but I don’t. I actually like that he still holds onto the key. One thing I’ve noticed – he does seem to like to come get stuff when I’m not home and he only takes what he needs (mail or packages) and not the rest of his stuff.
I don’t text him unless he texts me so you can say I was going dim. I haven’t posted anything on FB since last Oct (BD) so nobody knew what I’d been up to except friends and family I occasionally update my sitch. I hosted a baby shower for my best friend few weeks ago that I put my heart and soul in. The shower turned out wonderfully and I debated if I should post pics on fb or not but I ended up posting them mainly because I wanted my bf’s family and friends on fb to share. The next day he texted to tell me he saw the pics and how great everything turned out. He was still living at home when I was making a diaper cake so he knew how hard I was working on this shower. He also asked how one of our cats were doing (because he was supposed to take her when she recovered from her surgery), and if I was going to the charity walk for his sister that weekend. I told him I was going with my girlfriend and that I could not miss it this year because I missed last year. Right after that I saw he registered for the walk online. I only took that as a positive sign for 10 min and my negative thoughts started going through my head. “Why did he donate $25 extra? Is it for his date?” “Did he ask if I was going because he didn’t want me to come?” I know I shouldn’t but it’s my nature I guess.
Deep down I knew he was not gonna bring a date to a family event even if he did have one but I sometimes feel I don’t know him anymore that I speculate things. When I got there with my friend he was sitting next to his mom. His mom walked up to me and gave me a hug, which felt tighter than before. She knows I’m putting on a smile outside but hurting inside. I went to hug all the family members and when I went to hug my H, he kissed me on my head.
I’m so glad I asked my friend to come. She definitely helped to lighten me up in an awkward situation that I was able to act happy and fun throughout the day. I had a ladybug on my forehead and everyone was yelling and telling me to not flick it. My H was keeping an eye on where the ladybug was going and every time I moved, everyone had big laughs. We really had a great time. I remembered there would usually be a brunch at MIL’s house after the walk for the family but when we were walking to the parking, I quickly said that I parked the other side and I was leaving. I’m sure my MIL wanted to spend some time with her daughter and son I didn’t want to create a weird obligation for her.
This was particularly good day because I had a serious awakening…
As I was leaving, I thought about my friend who drove more than an hour for this walk and how appreciative I was of her. I don’t know if I ever mentioned this on here but I’ve always had trouble letting people become friends with me. I always hated happy hour because I felt why would I want to go have a drink (I prefer juice over cocktails!) and chat about guys and stuff. I always felt it was such a waste of time when I could go home and have comfy time with my H and cats. My H never understood this. He always joked (now I think about it he wasn’t joking) how I intentionally didn’t make friends. This is very true. One time I even said “I only want to be friends with someone who I gain something from” …………. What kind of bitxx would say that? I did. When I said this he froze and had a little disrespectful face. He said “When you say like that you are superior than them or something” I honestly didn’t mean that but now I know I did. He was right all along. People liked me but I didn’t give them a chance. I always had excuses for not making friends and blamed the entire world I’m here all alone and all my friends and family are in my mother country. This girl who came to walk with me always liked me and I liked her, but I never initiated hanging out with her outside of work because I wanted to spend time with my H. This close-minded and arrogant attitude of mine greatly affected our relationship. I’d say it’s one of the biggest reasons he wanted to leave.
I truly want to thank my H for waking me up.
That is great for you to understand that you may have have been holding yourself back from the simple pleasure and value of having friends, just for the sake of having friends. Companionship.
It does not mean that you always have to go out and make small talk. There's no obligation to always do things with friends.
On his stuff in the garage and being "OK" with it being there and otherwise worrying that if you tell him to get his stuff out of the garage, you might chase him further away.
It is a funny thing about human nature. We have a tendency to want what we can't have. So when a WAS begins to see a LBS who is moving on with their life, they have a tendency to become curious and may actually start pursuing.
While that may be true, it is not something that you want to test. Moving on without the WAS is basically LRT. And what that means is, you are ultimately OK with getting D. You certainly can do LRT at some later point, if you are finally done.
In the mean time, you are having a lot of contact and your H has reasons to visit. If access to the house is not a concern for you and his stuff in the garage is not in your way, then certainly it IS ok to leave those things as they are.
What are some other GAL activities that you are planning on doing? Any new 180s you have planned? like... meeting new people and making new friends?
Thank you for your comment. I especially like the first line you wrote about friends. The simple pleasure and value of having friends, companionship. I feel like a child learning new simple things every day! hahaha
I understand the WAS pursing LBS but like the typical 180 didn't work for my H while we were still living together, I don't think it'll work for him. I just know in my guts that hinting him I've moved on will send a wrong message. So I'm not moving his stuff in the house or asking him about the keys he still has to the house. (And of course I actually don't mind that he does) Soon after BD, I started going out and letting him know little about whereabout and detaching physically. While I think it may have worked a little, he seemed even more distant as time went by. I don't think my distancing was doing our sitch any favor. So I decided to change it back little bit and increase physical touch... only I couldn't. My coach suggested that I would do little more drastic to have a physical contact with him since I was so beyond scared to even touch him. It was like he had an invisible barrier around him. I was still scared and all I could was give him a hug before I went to bed. Then his grandpa passed and I supported him in any way I could. Since around that time my fear just went away. Looking at his grandpa in bed and seeing his wife of over 60 years talking to him even though he wasn't responding did something to my head. I realized I should at least show H how much I care about him without saying it with words that might have pushed him away. I hugged him as many times as I could and I noticed he was hugging me back really tight and even longer than I anticipated. I'm sure he felt the love from me he had always wanted to feel for years..
My GALs? Too many to list here! I actually carry a small notebook in my purse now and every time I do something new or exciting (even the smallest things!) I log what I did in the notebook. But the biggest one has to be volunteering and driving. I mean now I drive anywhere without even thinking but before… pffft it’s so embarrassing to even say I would dread about going somewhere alone I ended up not going a lot of places because of that. How much fun had I missed out on all these years!
Driving anywhere
More new places, the better!
Improving cooking skills.
I always cooked dinners almost every night and my H loved it but I was always cooking the same thing and never really made time to improve it. What’s worse is that whenever I tried making something new and failed, I would throw the biggest fit and never cooked the same thing again. Talk about being cynical! And I don’t like reading recipes so my goal is to try new recipes and practice.
Having girls’ night at my house and treat them to my cooking.
We just did this the other night and we had a BLAST. I can’t believe I never even thought about inviting them to my house for dinner before.
Saying yes to any kind of fun activities/invitations from friends.
So far I’ve done go-carting and photo shoot. As the Summer approaches I know I’m adding more fun activities to the list.
Toning up.
People consider I’m so tiny and skinny but that’s because I hide really well. They obviously haven’t see my flabby thighs because I always hide them. My legs have always been my biggest complex and just like driving I give up wearing different types of clothes because of that. I’ve been really focusing on toning up so I can wear mini skirts like I never have. I’m beginning to be able to wear slim tight gym pants and not being so self-conscious about it already. I’m taking one step at a time..
So basically I had been a wife who always did the same thing, stayed home, wanted to hang out with H all the time, and wore jeans all the time. Geez!
It turned a somewhat worse turn for me yesterday -
Weeks ago I accidentally noticed he changed his status to Separated. Around that time I noticed a same girl I've never seen before posting funny pictures on his wall. He wasn't really commenting on the pics. One day he posted some article I had no idea about but I must have "liked" it as I was falling asleep with my phone in my hand. I noticed that I "liked" it few hours later and unliked it.. only because I had no idea what the article was about. It wasn't because "oh [censored] he's not supposed to know I'm looking at his stuff" Few hours later I noticed the same girl did leave a decent comment on the article.
I also noticed she tagged him in her pictures from a recent hike.
The girl's wall or the pictures are open to public or friends of friends so I could see everything. I cried hard that night as I was finding out about her. She's very cute, tall, a mother of three, is into video games and geek stuff just like my H does. One of her kids' names is my H's favorite movie. She seems like an absolute opposite of me. She also seems like somebody who would be perfect for my H.
I found out about this girl before the charity walk we both went and mentioned in a post before this. After the walk, I noticed again accidentally H removed the marital status from his fb completely. I somehow took it as a good sign that he's not telling the world "he's separated" Since the walk, I still noticed the girl kept posting funny pictures on his wall but he was not commenting on any of it. His sister said something on his wall and he replied right away.
Then yesterday on Mother's day, H called me. (He never calls. We only text when we have to) and asked if I was home because he needed to pick up a CD or something. I knew something was up because he could just come in and get whatever he needs when I'm not home. I knew he needed to see me. He got here and he was looking for whatever he needed but was struggling. As soon as I asked what he was looking for I spotted it right away and gave it to him. He was still standing and didn't look like he was gonna go in the next few min. It was really warm inside so I went to get myself a glass of cold tea and he asked if he could have some. I sat down in a dining chair and he sat down also. I knew he was not gonna leave anytime soon. We chatted for about 2 hours. There was a time we didn't have anything else to update each other and had awkward silence. I was telling him I'm helping my friend to set up a budget and he said "oh that reminds me, the money I'm putting in J checking, is that enough? I was thinking about it the other day and thought maybe that wasn't enough" I reminded him no he puts $$ bi-weekly so he's actually putting twice more than he's thinking. I see on this board sometimes getting money from WAS gets nasty. So far he's been more than great in terms of that but.... to tell you the truth it kills me when he says something like this nice. I almost wish he would act like an a@@ so I wouldn't be so attached.
We were running out of stuff to talk about but I was showing him pictures my friend took at the walk. At the end of the slideshow, out of nowhere he said "So we need to talk about facebook" It really shocked me as he said it very nervously. It was almost like a kid who did something wrong but dreaded to bring it up. I was calm and just listened. He said "So by now you know I started seeing someone" I was quiet and didn't say anything. "I'm so sorry you had to find it on fb. I was so busy with work and didn't realize people see stuff on my wall. A couple of people told me how inconsiderate/inappropriate it is. I'm so sorry I really didn't mean for you to find out like that" Again I was silent. I don't know if I was hurt or appreciated his telling me this. I was just dead quiet. He then said something like how few people (idk if he means his friends or family members) don't like her. I was still quiet and he said he'd totally understand if I didn't wanna talk about it now. I wanted to say something really badly but I just couldn't figure it out.
He got up and said I've been meaning to give you back the parking pass. It's in my car so I'll get it and come back. When he came back, I said I did notice the girl on his wall. He said that he thought I might have noticed it because one day he got a notification I made a comment on his stuff but the comment went away. (He was referring to my "liking-unliking while falling asleep" incident) so I told him the truth. But I also said that's about the time I started seeing the same girl on his wall. I don't know if I should have said it but I told him how it made me so jealous, it made me so jealous that this girl seems to have a lot in common with him. I guess I chose to say that because throughout our m, I was never jealous of any girl he interacted with because I trusted him completely. But I might have had an attitude like "you are not going anywhere when you have me!"
So whether it was DB-ing or not I felt I needed to tell him how I felt learning about it. He kept saying sorry and it started annoying me. I calmly said "It's not that honey. It doesn't matter if I found out about it on fb, from your friends, your family or from you even. I just didn't think you would be dating at all" Again I don't know if it was good or bad but I'm kind of proud of myself for saying that to him. That was my honest feeling about all this.
He looked at our desk area and said he needs to come get all these (just his desk accessories) and his old car sitting in our garage. We are still paying ins for it even though it's non-operative. I already hated the car and wanted him to sell it for the longest time but he never got around to it. Now he's mentioned it a couple of times he needs to sell it so I can use the garage space. Again Idk if he's saying that to be nice but it kills me whenever he says that. I feel that way because if he sells it it's one less thing attached.
Strangely enough he did give me back the parking pass but didn't even mention about giving me the house key or the garage opener.
After he left, I felt completely numb. I couldn't cry. It hurt so badly inside but could not cry.
I can't call my mom because she'll be so worried and I can't do that. I told my best friend last night I couldn't go to her house like promised because something came up. She understood and didn't ask me why, which I really appreciated. I don't wanna talk to my girl friends at work because they will be telling me to move on.
I need you DB friends more than ever. This is so hard but my gut tells me I shouldn't give up. Need encouragement please.
One more thing I told him before he left -
"I'd be the happiest with you but ultimately I want you to be happy"
Oops I left out one important fact -
So he basically came by to say sorry to me in person and that he decided to delete his fb account all together. After he left I checked fb and he was completely off from fb.
Who do you talk to when you have down days? I've been ok not talking at all about sitch to my friends until now. It hurts that I want to talk but at the same time I feel like I shouldn't because of the anticipated responses "you need to move on, you deserve better than this," which I don't need to hear.
Hi SLU... well, we do need to move FORWARD, and we do DESERVE better (which is why we are supposed to be working on us)... BE the spouse only a FOOL would leave.
((hugs)) to you... Keep venting in here!
Thank you but what some of my friends mean by that is completely different from what we call “moving on” I think.
Some of my friends do clearly suggest that I should be open to seeing other people. One of them often kind of jokes about it like “Are you going to the gym obsessively for a reason? (hinting there might be some guy I like works out there?)” or “Or I want you to go to these parties Doctors go and marry one!” I know she's trying to cheer me up or something but every time she says something like that it honestly really makes me mad.
I guess I'm struggling with how people think of "separation"
For me, we separate so we can take our time to figure out what we want. But it seems like a majority in our society encourages separated people date. I guess it's a way to go and I know I won't do it not because I'm against it but only because I don't have a slightest interest/desire to date anyone else right now. I will date a new person or my H when I'm ready to move on, but I don't need my friends to constantly encourage me to do it.
I just remembered he said yesterday he got a 60" TV when I asked. We laughed about it but inside I was thinking "oh my god that seems like something somebody who's having a MLC would buy"
He then said the TV would probably fit here which confused me then said I wanted to get a big one just in case I move to a bigger place. He just said it unconsciously but my heart sand when I heard it.
Now I'm remembering the email he sent me in late Jan before he moved out.
"I finally understand what a commodity happiness is"
As English is my second language, I sometimes struggle what a simple English phrase means. To this day I didn't understand what he meant by this but is getting his own place, getting a 60" TV was what he was referring to??
If anyone has any suggestion/insight I'd greatly appreciate it..
We don't have kids. I let him take one of our 2 cats because the two never got along anyway and the one that went with him loves him to death. Since he left in early March, I have been dim except when he texted me. I'm still planning on going dim because now he's completely off FB he won't have any access to our photos or how I'm up to except my grocery shopping activity on our J account that hopefully he'll feel how it'd be like not having any contact with me.
But quite frankly I'm scared. I'm afraid he'll think I'm done with him.
Should I keep going dim or initiate something..? I'm confused ever after his last visit.
I will date a new person or my H when I'm ready to move on, but I don't need my friends to constantly encourage me to do it.
Hi there. You get what you need from your friends by clearly asking for it. Ask them to stop with the winks and nudges and dating recommendations and tell them you'll let them know if and when you are interested in dating. The unhelpful help of friends and family is the subject of many many posts around here. People just want you to be happy, and they don't understand standing for your marriage. If you're getting advice here, from a therapist, and/or from a db coach, and it's advice that helps you achieve your goals, then turn off the friend-advice tap. Just say no to it, no thanks, it's not helping.
Your question about the meaning of happiness as a commodity and the purchase of large tvs is an effort to mindread, something else that is widely discouraged here, that people do anyway, and then tell here about the consequences they suffer because of it. Read other threads here and you'll start to see a lot of the same things you're going through.
Stop mindreading. Get out of his head, which is probably confusing enough, and stay in your own. Work on you, get a life, explore what you'd like to change about yourself, make good use of this space and time. If and when he wants to come back to you he will let you know, it won't be a hint or unclear.
You worry that he'll think you're not interested if you go dim. Have you expressed to him yet that you want to repair your marriage? If you were clear, then you don't need to keep repeating it. He knows. If you begged and pleaded and cried, he knows. If he asks and you tell him, you don't want this but you understand that he has to follow his journey, and if you look in the meantime very attractive and at peace, I don't think he'll assume you've changed your mind and don't want him.
DB is counter-intuitive, but it can work, you can read the thread s here, and the book, and the success stories. It's a lot more likely that you end your marriage faster by pursuing, and it's a lot more likely that you'll have a chance if you let go and let him feel like you really heard him. You don't control his journey, either way.
Good luck to you.
Adinva, Thank you so much. If my friends bring it up again I’ll be much firm. I felt bad shutting them down because I know they want to help. But if they are good friends they should respect my decision. My best friend and another friend never say anything and in the beginning I felt I wanted them to suggest anything but actually now I’m grateful now they didn’t.
I see on other threads people talk about mind-reading but I guess I don’t realize I’m doing the exact same thing until I’m told. It’s so much easier to ready other people’s sitchs and comment but when it comes to your own sitch, all of a sudden everything is a question.
I worry because I’ve seen threads where some LBS went dim and their WAS thought LBS was done with them they started dating.
It might have nothing to do it but I guess that’s why I worry. I also worry because I’m not sure if he knows I’m not going anywhere. I’m not good with words. Especially when I’m countered by him like Sunday I’d be so quiet. There were million things I wanted to say but I think too much and I can’t even say “I can’t talk about it now but can we talk later?” Like I said in my last post I did try my best and tell him it was not about how I found about the girl he’s dating, but I thought we were not gonna see other people. (We didn’t have S agreement or anything so this S is very unofficial) I just assumed that married people don’t date even if we are separated, at least in my culture it’s not acceptable. But I’m in U.S and when I google on the subject it’s almost widely accepted that separated people date. The last and only thing I could say to him was “I didn't want to say anything to you since last year because I didn't want to overwhelm you but my feelings haven’t been changed” I wonder hard if that was enough to let him know I still want to work on our m.
What should I have said?
Have you spoke to H recently SLU?
oh hey T1000 Thanks for stopping by. No I haven't. We don't have kids so if he doesn't initiate contacting me we go dim for a long time. I really don't think it's a good idea for me to text him.
My WAS shows great remorse whenever we talk and that's really painful to me. If we even ever R, I would not want him to come back out of guilt. I want him to come back because he truly wants to. If not it's never gonna work.
We, LBS feels so resentful sometimes for what WAS have put us through that we want to make them fell guilty for what they've done (familiar with your sitch, eh? T1000?
but now I kind of understand there's no point in doing that.
Maybe this weekend I'm thinking of driving to a city where we got married. There is a nice harbor and a park I can walk around. I'm gonna bring my good camera and just take pictures. Of course I'm not gonna tell him or mention it to anyone really.
I do not want to feel resentful of the recent discovery and I'm really trying. I think going back to where it all started would make me feel calmer.
Hi SLU,
We want the WAS to hurt like we have and you are right it doesn't do anything but push them away and make us hold onto the pain longer.
There's advantages and disadvantages to all sitches.
Having kids means some contact and some chances to show how you have changed. It also means you have to chat with someone who has left you about mundane things and look after the kids while they do things.
Living in the same house means lots of contact and chances to show off 180's but again you have to have PMA 100% of the time and sit and watch what your WAS is doing.
Going to where you got married could be a good thing or it could be a bad thing.
I would be moping around feeling sorry for myself.
If you can do it without feeling bad and depressed thats OK. I would find it to difficult myself.
Yeah I know it will be hard but I just have to remember how it was before - maybe I'll have another realization or two while I'm there.
Just before my BD, my best friend was thinking about leaving her H of 10 years. I knew she often complained about him and said she has a divorce process site bookmarked on their computer and her husband knew etc. But the whole time I had no idea why she casually mentioned D to me when I didn’t hear any single incident that should have made her consider D.
When she decided to leave him, she told me for the first time that he is an alcoholic. I was shocked. She said she was patient for 10 years but it was time. She told him that she was leaving but her H told her he would not go to IC or quit drinking. She told him the only way she’ll stay is for him to quit drinking completely. He wasn’t badging for 2-3 weeks or so and he finally decided to quit and she decided to not leave as she promised. He quit drinking completely but refused going to IC.
Around this time, I was in my dark spot after my H broke down in July. I thought I was doing my best to change by going to IC etc. During this time my best friend shared a little story with me. She said “When you guys were here for a dinner the last time, my H said something about you. I don’t remember exactly what he said but he said something like “Why is she always like that (mean) with her H?” As soon as I heard that from her, I exploded. I blew up because I knew he was refusing to go to IC and I had already started going to IC and trying to change. She then said it’s just another person’s opinion. If somebody told me that I’d think maybe that’s something I should work on. Then I blew up again. Again this was before BD and before I found about DB-ing. Apparently I wasn't ready for criticism, especially not from somebody who was refusing to go to IC.
2 weeks later she was complaining about him again saying “Trying to change lasted only 2 weeks, I should have left him when I had the momentum” She then told me that she needed to tell me something. She swore she’d leave him if and when he ever drinks again. She wanted me to know so she’d keep her words.
A week later, she found out she was pregnant.
They just had a beautiful baby and seem happy.. but I went to visit them at home the other day for the first time the baby was born. I can’t be 100% sure but I’m pretty sure he was drinking again. I noticed that because he was kind of engaging a conversation with me and his mom in rather aggressive way. Whatever we say, he comes back and say “I don’t know about that” “That’s not true” Almost every response was cynical, which my best friend always complained about then I saw the drink in his glass and thought I smelled alcohol from him. I'm not an alcoholic and that's not why my H wanted D but being cynical was a HUGE part of the reason I believe. Talking to her H the other day made me think a lot. Is this how I appeared to him before BD? As much as what he said about me pissed me off, he was right on if this is how I was to my H.
I hope I’m wrong. But if he started drinking after the baby was born, it’s sad. Oh how I hope I am wrong.
Every since the movie "Hope Springs" came out I've always wanted to watch it. I believe it came out in theater when our problems just started surfacing that I couldn't ask my H to go see it with me. After it left theaters I read reviews on amazon and they were not that great so I didn't rent it right away.
I wish I didn't trust those reviews because I just rented it through Netflix yesterday and I absolutely loved it. Some reviewers complained about sex or how slow it was... well most of them obviously aren't going through what we are going through I guess. I thought it was well written and portrayed deeper emotions of both possible WAS and LBS. I cried throughout the movie. I saw my H in Meryl Streep's role as to how she held back a lot and also saw H in Tommy Lee Jone's role as a husband who fantasized about things but couldn't voice and felt lonely when W stopped sex for years.
I never really watched too many movies that both actors played in but wow aren't they great actors. They played the old couple really well. I thought Steve C did well as a counselor too. When he was talking I caught myself nodding as if he was counseling me! oh boy. I'm definitely going to buy the movie now.
"You have to break the nose in order to fix it"
Hey, watch throwing around that old word.
oh is it? Didn't know. But I didn't grow up here so I thought it was a new saying in the movie! Ha!
Journaling -
What we still share - joint bank accounts, cell phone carrier, car insurance and his car loan. H never really brought up separating those services so I never brought it up either. We are charged through our joint account. He put $ in our J account on his bi-monthly pay day. He's never skipped it once. Even when he was late few days I never say a word but he still does, which is a big 180 from him.
I've always managed finances and it has always been our rule to put the majority of our pay to J account every pay day because that's where we pay our bills from. But when we were together, I would always remind him to put $ in the joint if he doesn't do it first thing in the morning. It's not that I needed $ right away but I was so structured, organized and quite frankly crazy that way I just wanted to get things done on my terms. I'd text him at work on our pay days "How much?" meaning how much will he have left in his account after contributing his share to Joint. I always made sure we both had some "allowance money" left in our own accounts after we put our shares. He tells me how much he'll have and I tell him how much to put in the Joint. While it worked, we also created a very non-romantic dynamic by doing so.
Now we are separated, he puts his contribution to the Joint acct right on time without even my asking. That tells me I definitely treated him more like a child than an adult or husband for the matter. He is capable of handling responsibilities but I treated him like he needed my help in everything he did. sigh..
that hopefully he'll feel how it'd be like not having any contact with me.
But quite frankly I'm scared. I'm afraid he'll think I'm done with him.
Should I keep going dim or initiate something..? I'm confused ever after his last visit.
You and me both! I've been wrestling with this since my W left. I wish there was a clear answer but it seems every time someone asks this question there's either no answer or consistent answer.
I want my W to feel how life would be like completely without me, but like you I'm afraid that she'll slowly drift away from me...especially if there's AP.
Hi JRG,
Thanks for stopping by. Going dark for me had to be done I think. Before I use to text him ALL the time. Funny pictures, funny incidents, complaints, grocery shopping lists... So not texting to get his attention is a major 180 for me too. Since he left, he commented on an old picture of his grandpa I have on my fb, asked me if I was going to his SIL family event. Neither time I initiated.
I still sent out Mother's Day cards and plan on sending Father's Day cards to his in laws. I have a great relationship with his in laws. Don't get me wrong though - I don't do those things hoping to get them "convince" H to come back because that's the last thin I want. I dont talk to them about current situation or my feelings unless asked. I simply continue having relationship with them because I deeply care about them and they care about me too. Even his best friend his wife welcomed me at their house the other day. I only told him before the visit I might cry when I see them both and he said that it is OK because we r all friends. I just couldn't believe the friendship they offer me. All these years I made excuses to not attend parties or gatherings they invited us and my H always hated and thought I didn't like them. I just can't believe how I had been the past years and I'm so mad at myself as I'm realizing all this.
Hi looking...how's it going? Still going dark?
Hi JRG!
Oh ya very! The only activity of his I see is when he contributes some money in our J account on pay days twice a month. And when I get his mail here I text him to let him know and he comes to get them while I'm not here.(He still has the key to the house) We are still friends on fb but both of us rarely post anything anymore and I've been trying to not log into FB altogether so Idk if he has any updates or not. Not logging to FB feels great actually because I focus on GAL more than worrying about what I might or might not find out on FB.
I often text my H's BF and he's so great. He never tells me how my H's doing or asks me what's going with us etc. I really appreciate his friendship now more than ever and I can't help but to think how ironic it is. All these years my H wanted me to go to his friends' gatherings/parties more with him and I almost always had an excuse to not go. Not that I didn't like his friends (Actually I really really like them) but I just did not want to give up staying at home time on the weekends and go drinking.
.... man how much lazier could I have been?!? hahaha
GAL is going well. I recently went to see a movie by myself for the FIRST time in my life! It was such a big deal to me I had to encourage myself all day lol. I told H's BF before I went so I had to do it. He knows I've been trying to do new things so he encourages me more and it's been a great help. Idk if he tells my H about what I've been up to or not but it doesn't matter. I'm GAL-ing for me anyway.
I continue to go to the gym at least 3 times a week. A girl at the gym remembers my name now and she told me once she had to remember my name because I go there a lot. (Ha! never thought in a million years I would hear something like that at the gym. Me? going to the gym a LOT? that never happened before)
I look and feel better than ever and I'm exploring types of clothes I've always wanted to wear but never did.
Another small and odd GAL is Netflix. It's not really social or outgoing GAL activity but it's doing a great deal for me. I'm the kind of person who watches my fav movies over and over again. It was very rare for me to explore new movies. Since I joined Netflix, I must have watched 10-15 movies in a month. Movies usually have great messages to deliver and watching them has been great for me to realize/remember things I forgot or I've never thought of before.
I think I've said it somewhere in my thread before but I seriously secretly thank my H for giving my life back. I still wish this didn't happen this way but without this happening I would have NEVER been where I am now.
Of course I have my down time. In fact I probably have some sort of down time few times a day. I sometimes do feel resentment. I sometimes do feel I want to give up but I'm still looking up
Good to hear that you're doing alright. Good job on the GAL activities. I struggle with social GAL and most of mine are things that I do alone. TV and movies have helped me too. And yes, I too have been to the movie theater by myself.
I've still been dim with my wife. Only communications have been business related. I'm finding it easier for me this way. I'm still too attached and I tend to analyze every communication for hints of something. It's hard not to.
Like you I've had secret thoughts of thankfulness for my situation. I know that I'm growing from this experience. I'm becoming a better person. Previous to this I never had any "difficult" life events that forced me to think in the manner in which I think now. I was taking too much for granted and was too much of a pessimist. Hopefully the significance of our deep emotions at this time will serve as a reminder that will last our entire lives!
Did your W have a rough childhood? I myself had a very lukewarm childhood. No divorce, no abuse, no death, no financial problem (all not that I knew of!) my H on the other hand, had his parents divorced when he was 3 or so and he still remembers being passed around in a parking lot. His beloved step dad died suddenly at 40 something, his beloved grandpa died of an accident...
Having lived through somewhat a normal childhood, I took a marriage lightly. I shouldn't say "lightly" but I thought it wouldn't be hard. My H on the other hand was so afraid of getting married because of the failure of his parents' marriage (but they were 16 and 18! They did their best)
People around me tell me to not beat myself up and I swear I am not. I'm just realizing how lazy I had been in my marriage and most people around us had absolutely NO idea. I made very little effort to be a woman in my marriage. I presented myself very well outside of m, all my H friends think I'm such a cute, devoted wife who dresses nice and cooks home made dinner every night. They would have never even imagined that I would fart.
I got too comfortable... too comfortable that he probably felt he was like my background in my life to his eyes. I focused on organizing house, finances, every house related thing in order and I just needed a H to support me in the background. It's harsh but that's what I was probably doing. So when it came to a baby matter, he probably felt the lowest of all time. "Now she's ready to focus on a baby and skipping me"
I'm similar to you. My childhood was good with no major problems. However my parents did end up divorcing but I was already 21 and my family was pretty much expecting it. I too thought that my marriage would be fairly easy (or at least not hard). I didn't try very hard because I just didn't think it was necessary. I got comfortable and took it for granted.
My W didn't have a terrible childhood but she wouldn't say that it was good either. She had a lot of responsibility with looking after her brother and sister. Because of it she missed out on some of the freedom that most kids enjoy. Her parents are still together but their marriage isn't good. Her dad is an alcoholic and her mom puts up with it. Her dad didn't pay attention to my W growing up and her mom was controlling. I think my W has probably felt controlled for most of her life. I think this is partially why she's seeking freedom now.
This is an interesting conversation. My W had a rough childhood with her family basically disowning her. My parents got D when I was 10 and remarried a few years later. I thought marriage would be easy also. I got comfortable and lazy which I think is the biggest reason I'm even here.
The thing that I always thought was odd was that W said recently she was always thinking about D for the whole 13 years we were married. I just couldn't fathom living with that kind of fear. She had this phobia that people would leave her. So instead of speaking up and fighting for what she wanted, she says she didn't fight at all in order to save the marriage.
Might just be WAS talk, but who knows? I think it has helped me appreciate how different her thinking is from mine. Some days, I feel like I really need to relearn my W.
Hello kingdl and sorry I missed this post! Don’t think I got a notification.
I’ve been commenting on other people’s sitches lately I was abandoning my sitch as nothing major was happening until yesterday.
From the beginning of our relationship when we started talking about marriage, I could tell he was scared. We even broke up once because she didn’t think he could do it. Later on after we reconciled and got married, he confessed that when we were talking about m, he looked around in his dirty room in an apartment he was renting with two other guys and was convinced he couldn’t possibly support me. I was very optimistic (which is rare considering I was very cynical about everything) and couldn’t understand why he was feeling that way. Now with our sitch I’m sure he’s having the same feelings he first had and he might be even thinking “see what happened to our m, I shouldn’t have married”
I’ll update my sitch later.
I’ve been encouraging other fellow WAS lately but when it comes to my own sitch it is so hard to get myself encouraged. I cried hysterically in my parked car in my garage yesterday, which hadn’t happened for the last few months.
I have to interview many people today at work and I had to sneak out to the bathroom few times today to cry between interviews.
I feel like I'm worth much more than this but then I quickly go back thinking H probably felt exactly the same for the last few years.
You are worth exactly what you feel you are worth. This will pass. Self worth comes from you, not anyone else.
H mentioned the other day I was intimidating, I told him I was always insecure, but hid it under a veneer of self confidence. Now, funnily enough, I am secure in who I am and confident ( sure, still have those days where the mirror is NOT my friend, but don't we all?)
Think of what you accomplish everyday. Your worth is not tied to what someone thinks of you, even though it hurts
I feel like I'm worth much more than this but then I quickly go back thinking H probably felt exactly the same for the last few years.
Use that to keep yourself humbled, but don't let it destroy your psyche.
-PM
Hi Kate's pl Thank you for stopping by. Self-worth... Well that's my biggest life challenge I've realized. It's really nothing to do with H but it's a struggle with myself really.
I came to US when I was 16 for the first time to stay with my uncle family and I remember I couldn't speak a word of English. I was so disappointed with myself that I decided to come back next year to spend a whole month with an American host family. I remember I was so confident I could communicate with them but 10 years later when I reunited with them they said they had such a hard time understanding me when I was staying lol. I chose to go to an American school in my country to pursue studying English more seriously. I came back in US when I was 22, went to school, worked, met my now H, went back to my country for few years and came back few years ago to marry H ans I've been here since. In my culture its rare we immigrate as a family. We usually come here as in international student while leaving the whole family and friends back home. I've done all this adventure all by myself, alone in a foreign country.
After we got married I moved here "for good" While it was very exciting there's the unspoken sadness inside of me I carried on. The reality hit and I often thought about how many times I can see my family in my life?. I love my in laws from the bottom of my heart and they have been so good to me but I couldn't help but to resent few times when I was asked by my in laws to remind my H to "call grandma" or "call to say happy Mother's Day" It was like every event/celebrations are for H family. I have my family across the ocean and I have to think about what to send for Mother's Day or Father's Day but I also have to worry about reminding H for his'?
Since I don't know when but I began to think H must make me happy because I left everything back home. I left everything to be with him here. Everything was happening on my terms. Getting an apartment, decorating the house, getting a car, getting cats, getting a house, trying for a baby and IVF until BD. Don't get me wrong, I've always asked for his opinions but if his was slightly off I would try hard to somehow convince him my idea was better. As kind and laid back he was he always gave me my way.
I rambled on but what I wanna say is that I got codependent on H big time over the years. H drove everywhere we went, we spent almost every weekend together and I'd give a fit if H wanted to go with his friends on weekends.
So you see? I've really lost sense of who I am over the years. The adventurous independent girl who landed here and did everything alone disappeared after she got married. I was so busy trying to create a traditional "married life," and when things on the list were not happening I panicked and pushed harder and totally forgot about H's feelings about his ideal married life.
Since BD I've started re-learning about myself. I now drive everywhere by myself (I don't have a choice now he's gone lol) and funnily enough that alone gave me a boost of confidence and since then I have done numerous new things. When my friends invite me to do something new I say yes and I'm regretful every day I didn't try new things over the last few years.
So Thank you Kate for reminding me again that I have to keep trying new things and accomplish things on my own. I need to hear that once in a while.
Use that to keep yourself humbled, but don't let it destroy your psyche.
Thanks PM for stopping by. I'm not gonna lie. Some days I use it to be humbled and some days it's destroying my psyche.
Journaling -
So about two weeks ago H reciprocated "in a relationship" life event OW created on FB. The date goes back to last Oct. The date was just few days after BD. This is all bizarre activity coming from him as he was not getting tired of fb altogether. It hurt like I couldn't explain but did absolutely nothing about it. I didn't ask, I didn't message him, I didn't unfriend him. Soon after I noticed he blocked me from seeing his past activities including the reciprocation. Then within the next few days he finally unfriended me. To be completely honest, the unfriending hurt less than seeing reciprocation and it even relieved me somehow. Soon I realized I felt that way because now I don't have to be afraid going on fb. I don't have to be afraid of seeing possible their interactions.
After this event I had a coach session and my coach advised me to be more active on fb now H unfriended me. I found this advice very valuable. If he hadn't suggested that I would have still abandoned fb altogether. He instead suggested I should actively start posting about how well I'm doing etc. After the session I changed my profile picture and started posting again when went out with my friends. I noticed my fb friends (most of them are H's family and friends) liked my pictures and postings - it's like they have been waiting to see me.
I also received a change of address confirmation letter from USPS about a week ago. H must have finally completed it online. That broke my heart, period.
Few days after that, I texted him "How are you? Would you please send me pics of XX when you get a chance?" I was asking him to take pictures of one of our cats he took with him. I didn't say anything about fb activity including unfriending me. I sent it around 10pm and saw that he read it but I didn't get a reply the whole night. I got tired and went to sleep. When I woke up I still didn't get a reply. That morning I had a weird thought that he might reply around the time he gets to work. In the past he usually does his personal texting, checking news etc first thing in the morning at work before the real work begins. I was right. He texted me right about the time when I was enjoying my morning coffee. He replied "I'm doing well. Work is keeping me very busy. I think XX has gotten fatter (sad face) I'll send pics when I get home" We exchanged few more texts solely about the cat. I didn't get any picture until 10pm that night and I figured he forgot, which again hurt me a bit only because I was really hoping he'd keep his promise. Expectations I know. I fell asleep but when I woke up in the middle of the night I noticed he sent me pictures around 11pm after I fell asleep. I said a Thanks text following morning, also around my coffee time.
Journaling -
Wow it's been almost 3 months since my last post. For anyone who's been following my thread, the update is we are still both going dark. This has been possible because we don't have kids.
You know how vets used to tell us, newbies the time will heal and we could be well detached from our WAS after some time pass. Well I used to hate hearing that. It's really easy for them to say but I always thought it was kind of bs because we wouldn't be here if we weren't expecting our M to work or wanting our spouse to come to senses and come back. Well I don't consider myself a newbie anymore and now I totally get what they were saying. I'm at a point where I can enjoy every day life without him and can think what would be like without him. I don't wonder all the time what he's been up to. Don't get me wrong. I still do love him and wonder SOMETIMES what he's been up to but certainly NOT all the time.
I continue to GAL, accepting almost all invitations to any event, which I never ever did before. It's really amazing how people want me at many events. The most amazing part of all this is that I've gotten many invitations from H's families and friends. H's mom, aunt, cousins, grandma, step-grandparents (!) , step-MIL etc etc all want me to come visit them alone. Just few weeks back H's guy friends were having a bd party for one of the guys and I was invited to pop in since I was in a neighborhood. They are such a great friends - they don't ask me about our sitch and just wanted me to have fun with them. I would have NEVER been spontaneous like this and pop in at a bar like this EVER before BD.
One interesting turning point -
Just few weeks ago my heart almost stopped when I saw a text from H. This was the first time ever to send me a text since I don't even remember. His text read that he just transferred some money to our J account, how he's been consistent and he's going to start letting me know every time he does.
This text was particularly odd because I can see the transfer activity every time he does it. He does not have to let me know via text. Since the separation he transfers some money twice a month on his payday and he's never skipped it or been late.
I simply replied Thank you very much and that I know he's been consistent. I also said I hoped his busy work was not stressing him out too much. - That actually opened a conversation and he started telling me about how his work has been crazy, how he's still in the office right now working on a big project, how he noticed my office moved because he saw from the freeway my old office's parking lot was empty, how his friends have been doing, how our cat is doing etc. At some point he told me his lunch hour and he often goes to a market near our offices for his lunch. (Ironically my office moved to a place 2 min away from his office) I thought maybe he was waiting for me to offer to see him at lunch time - but I didn't offer. I figured he would have to make an effort to ask me if he really wanted it to happen just like he sent me this text after all these months.
We continued to text back and forth for about 2 hours - and I knew I wanted to end it before he did, so I did. I told him I was sorry for keeping him away from the big project and would let him go back to work.
I also continue going to the gym at least 3 times a week and the result is really showing in my body and my confidence. My wardrobe has greatly changed. I recently bought a pair of knee-high boots which I'd ALWAYS wanted to try but never tried. Every time I see someone who I haven't seen for few months, I get the biggest compliments on how pretty and skinnier I look. Just the other day I went back to a market alone after 6 months of absence where my H and I used to go together all the time. The cashier who used to treat us very well was still there. As soon as she saw me she remembered me and screamed "wow you look really really pretty!"
Oops one more thing I wanted to add -
The last time I talked to my coach was about 2 months ago. I told my coach about my H's unfriending me on fb and how I now feel more comfortable posting my positive updates on fb. He suggested that I would "like" some positive quotes or books on how to become happy or something like that. His hope was for my H to be curious and interested in what I've been up to after all these months of absence from fb.
Although I'm not a fan of "liking" a lot of things on fb (annoying when all I see from my contacts are "liked" pages) I did start posting pictures of me and my friends, funny incidents, my cat etc about the same time.
Even though my H and I are not FB friends any more most of my FB friends are his friends and family (I'd say 90%) that he can still see my posts and pictures if I set the privacy level to "viewable to friends of friends"
I don't know if it was coincidence or not but I did get his last text about a month after I started posting on fb. If it wasn't coincidence then my coach's suggestion was dead-on.
You know how vets used to tell us, newbies the time will heal and we could be well detached from our WAS after some time pass. Well I used to hate hearing that. It's really easy for them to say but I always thought it was kind of bs because we wouldn't be here if we weren't expecting our M to work or wanting our spouse to come to senses and come back. Well I don't consider myself a newbie anymore and now I totally get what they were saying. I'm at a point where I can enjoy every day life without him and can think what would be like without him. I don't wonder all the time what he's been up to. Don't get me wrong. I still do love him and wonder SOMETIMES what he's been up to but certainly NOT all the time.
Glad to hear you're doing so good, and the above is really well said! I too remember being aggravated at any post I saw that implied I wouldn't be back with my W shortly as that seemed like the ONLY path to happiness. I really did not like reading that success was when you got to the point of knowing you would be OK whether your life continued with or without your spouse, yet now I say that exact same thing to others. Because it is so very true, when I finally got to that point myself I was at last free of all the pain, anguish and anxiety I had been suffering in my sitch.
I continue to GAL, accepting almost all invitations to any event, which I never ever did before.
Fantastic! GAL activities that involve getting together with other people are the ones that heal us the fastest!
I thought maybe he was waiting for me to offer to see him at lunch time - but I didn't offer. I figured he would have to make an effort to ask me if he really wanted it to happen just like he sent me this text after all these months.
Good, you are correct that he needs to make that move, not you. You handled the communication well! Don't have any expectations though, it may have just been a temperature check on his part.
I also continue going to the gym at least 3 times a week and the result is really showing in my body and my confidence. My wardrobe has greatly changed.
Excellent! Congrats! I'm sure even if your H doesn't see you that others will be telling him how great you look, and that might be making him curious
This is all great DB'ing, keep up the good work!
Glad to hear that you're doing well! Going dark is easy with no kids and it has helped me tremendously. It has obviously helped you. It makes it much easier to detach. Of course the GAL needs to go along with it. Congrats on your new physique!
Life continues on...:)
AS and JRG - Thank you so much for your response back in ... Sep! Geez has it been that long since my last post. JRG, I know you have already started your new life. I'm really happy and excited for you. Keep us updated here. AS, I just read your thread after how many months. It breaks my heart to read your love for your W. I don't know if it's the same love you had for her when you were together but I can relate. I still love my H but I wonder if this love I have for him is as same as what I had for him before. I cry for him because I know he's really lost but I can't help him. It's tough. He or your wife will have to figure out what their happiness is on their own.
I can't believe it was an year ago when I started this thread. The first thing that comes to my mind is how I've changed. I did my best to detach myself from my H and having no kids really helped. I only saw him few times last year after he left and few texts exchanged also. Some people know we are still married, some people assume we have already been divorced. His mom didn't even know until few months ago if either one of us filed or not. She probably thought we did because at some point I removed my wedding ring. The truth is - as of today nothing has been filed.
He completely distanced himself from his family who has obviously been against what he's doing. This breaks my heart. His grandpa passed away last Feb and no one in the family hadn't been able to tell the grandma what was going on with us or his dad and his wife. Who could have? How heart-breaking would it be for a 80 something old lady who just lost her husband of 60 years to know her son and her grandson have just left their wives around the same time to be with somebody else.
However, as holidays approached somebody had to tell her something because her son or grandson (my H) hadn't called her even ONCE since grandpa passed away. I called her few times and every time she asked for my H, I lied. "Sorry grandma, he's really busy with work" Well lies were all over. We had to tell her. She cried. A 80 something years old lady cried like a little girl - she couldn't believe her son had just divorced his 4th wife. She couldn't believe her sweet grandson who she believed would never do something like this left his wife, me.
At this point I don't care what he and his gf do. Just like the title of my thread, I still wish from the bottom of my heart him to be happy. If his gf can make him happy like I couldn't the past years, then that's what I want. But what I care more about now is his family. They have shown me so much love and support since this all started. You'd think they would side with my H. They love him regardless but they also love me so much it touches and breaks my heart at the same time.
Another biggest change in the past year is that somebody came into my life. Somebody who really cares about me and loves me. I had my guard so high up I didn't let any guy enter into my life but I somehow chose to let him enter and I now believe I did that because I wanted to. I too care for this person so very much. Our situations are so complicated I honestly think we might not be able to be together ever, even if my H and I end up divorcing. Do I regret letting him enter my life? No. He has shown and taught me different warmth and love I'd never known.
However..being a LBS, I know better. I don't simply think "now this guy IS the love of my life! Forget my husband!" like most of WAS would feel? I really don't. I really love this guy and he does too but I still do love my H. Even though I've known this guy for as long as I've known my H, we were never this close. That means he never really knew me before DB. I said in the beginning how much I've changed. This guy entered my life when I was changing. Then it wouldn't be fair for me to say this guy loves me more than my H did because I was definitely NOT the same person for the most part in our marriage.
.........
My life was so much simpler few years ago. I always told my friends I would never get a divorce because I wouldn't like the complicated lives a divorce brings. Well, look at me now. I'm separated but still married. I love my H but I also love this another guy. I want a family. I want my H to be happy. I want to be happy.
A year later, I'm still very much confused and I'm not even a WAS. No wonder it takes so long time for WAS to figure out what they want.