Stand up, poor and tired, but STILL more than this

My first thread: What's going on here.... and what do I do? What is going on here.... and what do I do?
My second thread: Stand up, poor and tired, but more than this

I guess I like to type a lot. Locked up the previous thread.

H and I went to a counseling appointment this morning. The counselor's (C) mission is to save marriages. To work through the issues, even when it seems hopeless.

I stayed quiet mostly... It was the first time I'd get to hear what the issues were. Why we were where we are.
H lied in the counseling stating his affair was 2 years. It wasn't. He said that he felt this way before our 5 year old was born. He's always felt like he wanted a D, but just never could go through with it because of my reaction.
C: "it sounds like LIO is willing to work on whatever it is that you need, have you communicated your needs to her? "
H replied: "She's not the issue. She would do anything that would help me. except when she doesn't get her way..." C looking at me: "how so?" in relationships like right now."
C looking at me.
Me to C: "I can only think of right now, where I do not want cheating or lying." H: "and murder"... (haha trying to be funny).

Reading these forums, I could see where the C was going with his questioning after getting stonewalled. He was asking midlife crisis questions. C brought up our son, and asked about his reaction... H was silent. I told the C, and H chimes in that I was feeding into S's reaction. I report what he does/says. Not my feelings.

H said he wouldn't come back, it was pointless. The C encouraged us to come back because it wasn't hopeless, but if we wanted to see him individually, that that was an option.
C suggested that we work on a parenting plan. H was uninterested, and took off quickly at the end.

H then called while I was crying/upset left in the office and his voicemail said: "I'm sorry you are upset, but I knew it would go that way. Have a good day."

I have another appointment with the C next week. For myself.
The C had me stay past the session and said that my husband is unwilling to accept any responsibility, and that I need to get out of the limbo and I've been left with a lot of responsibility with the kid, the house, the bills...

I had a great workout tonight. Signed up for more training sessions. I'm feeling stronger physically and mentally.

I was trying to keep the road smooth. I think I was a fool for being too accommodating. Maybe it's time to go NC again?
----

I would say so. He seems to at least show some interest then. My ex sounded alot like your H. There was no hope, he wasn't going to end his affair and I couldn't make him. What a little kid. Hon, he has a lot of work to do.

Let's get you bak to you and making your life better.

kat

He came in the next morning (yesterday)- while I was sleeping and squeezed my shoulder which woke me up and said "I'm sorry I'm such a pain in the ass." I didn't respond. I really didn't talk to him much yesterday. And besides one light conversation today (son was busy when H called) - no contact.

I took our S to a school party tonight. We both had fun and it was so nice to see his classmates' mothers, and have the kids do the activities. I'm so grateful we can send our son to the school he is at.

No contact continues on my end. H is now try initiating contact or including me in voicemails to S. Back and forth. I quit that game though. Finally. If I show interest, then he retreats. I'm not rewarding that any longer.

Today I went back to a workout I haven't done in 5 months. I'm really focusing on getting more fit. Even if H was going after bigger girls, it won't make me happy to be out of shape.

There is a new person around who has expressed interested in me (friend of a friend). I've not given my phone # or gone out with the person yet, but I can see how flattering it is for someone to receive attention not from their spouse and how tempting it would be. However, I'm going to keep db'ing as I want to be the best me I can be however life turns out. Maybe I'll know when I get there. For now, nc with H.

I've been galing more effortlessly now with NC. I am finding myself so appreciative of the people around me - the relationships I'm building at the gym, at church, my son's school, and it's really building my sense of community.
I want to make sure I give just as much as I take - including on here.

BTW: Kat thank you so much for sticking with me! It's been a learning experience these last 7 months on this board.
I also appreciate feedback from so many other wonderful posters!

Hey, no problem! I remember how hard all of this was. The friends I made here are my friends today. Some I don't hear from much but others I have regular contact with.

I hope we can get you to a great place in your life. If your H decides to join in...well he has plenty of work to do. You are a wonderful person and it sounds as if the people you run into day to day are getting to see that.

kat

Journaling - a bit all over the place and verbose. As always!

I am in a alternate universe.
Somehow H and I are going on Christmas vacation with S to visit H's parents. Together.

I am glad to say: I did not push it, arrange it, ask for it, or plan it. I had nothing to do with it. H and his parents did.
I am going to go so I can be in the sun, be relaxed, calm and have a nice time in nice weather. I am watching it unfold as it comes.

I do admit that I have a thought of: 'how interesting we are going together to visit his entire extended family. Back into the very place where we both have such good memories of each other. Where we met, where we always get along so good. But also the same place that I left 9 months ago alone - imagining we would go back together and have more good memories, only to arrive home to a WAS'.

But no expectations. I promise myself that.

After the counseling, I backed off entirely.
I did it for him so he could have room to process his feelings/thoughts without mine interjecting all the time. But I did it mainly to get a sense of sanity for myself.

In my time away so far:
I reviewed my actions in the last 8 months. I read books about communication between pointers and painters. How each processes and deals with conflict differently.

I vowed to be open, trusting, and loving. Real 'love' not controlled love only if you do what I want.
I figured out that he sees through his own filters, like I do. His feelings really have nothing to do with 'me'. I saw that my actions are louder than my words, and I had been practicing my words more than I had been changing my poor actions.

I found out that I am always trying to be 'right'. I'd rather be happy. Being 'right' adds stress to my life.

I am now focusing ENTIRELY on making my life something I will be proud of. If that involves him in the role of 'husband', then good. If not, good. Really.

Regardless, I am evaluating my life and going to be open to what comes in my direction without fighting, without yanking on that rope. I encourage him and anyone to do the same.

I have dropped the rope. I finally figured out what that truly meant and DID it. (Actions are more than words!)

If I speak to him, it's always about some benign thing. If he wants to talk about the R, he needs to initiate the conversation.

I am taking action by doing 'nothing' - which is still something.

I am taking care of what I need to take care of here regarding the house. I don't involve him. He doesn't care, and I don't care to worry about it.

I step out of his and S's relationship. S has been very vocal about wanting H at home. H hears him. H confided to me that 'I (LIO) don't think that he thinks about it every night'. I replied: "I don't doubt it, I just don't understand it is all." And I don't understand it. I'm not in that position. But I'm not going to be looking for the 'whys' anymore.

I'm adjusting my attitude overall.
I am accomplishing my finance goals! Just paid off my last credit card yesterday! One of our old scripts was 'how much do we owe on that...' Now that conversation can be dead.

I'm still training at the gym. Still working on the final 20 pounds, which apparently requires me to eat more food... GO figure.

He shared that his hours at work have been getting cut back. I see why he is so desperate to get some other job potential lined up. I see why he is stressed more. I see that I can add to it. I also see that I alone am in control of my own emotions and if I allow myself to be stressed by perceived slights or imagined situations.

My stress contributes a lot of stress on my relationships with not just H, but my S, and even my work.

It's going on 10 months. Every day I used to wonder if I could hang on longer, and for how long, and how long other people's reconciliations took. I haven't thought about it lately in terms of 'time'. I think it will happen when it's supposed to. Or like it's supposed to, it won't happen. Either way.

I don't know if that means I'm quitting. I know that I'm quitting the 'fight'. I'm not fighting for my marriage. He means a lot to me, and I will care for him to death if he lets me. But I'm not going to force that on him. He can choose. But in any case, I choose me that is loving, not controlling.

Hey LIO, first time caller, long time reader

Your last post was an inspiration to me and you said a lot of things that resonated. especially being happy instead of being right. I have always wanted to be right and am slowly moving towards happy instead. It's a hard process and some days are better than others, but I am working on it. I see how far you have come and it gives me hope and inspires me to continue.

Thanks!
Ruby

Good for you!! This reminds me of my Thanksgiving dinner with my parents and aunt and naturally my 4 kids. Things were going pretty well and the kids got a bit bored so got rowdy. I corrected them several times. I can't remember exactly what was done but my dad mentions that there are no consequences in my house. I just changed the subject.

I walk out to take stuff to my parent's car with my Mom and had a light bulb moment. My dad wants constant control and would suggest my kids be constantly disciplined so they would be like me when I was a kid. He just had to snap his fingers and we came running.

I on the other hand, knowing that I was in this by myself knew that I would need to choose my battles or I would constantly being on my kids for every little thing and none of us would be happy. I think my way is better. My kids are getting to be kids.

kat

Oh and besides, my kids aren't me. I was a bit of strange, uber responsible child!

kat

Hi Ruby! I'm glad that you got something out of it

For months I was reading a long time poster's (25yearsmlc) signature that said: "Be Happy or be "Right"" and think 'yeah... but I AM right - I should be able to have both!' It wasn't until I sat down and thought about it all. All the times I'd diagnosis him, the marriage, talk about 'our' history, chastise him, when in reality, it is 'my version' of events. And it came down to: "I interpret it like x, he interprets it like y, why is x better than y?" I had no answer. What made "my" truth better? If I couldn't answer that, then why did I need to be right?

Kat! My mom would snap her fingers and immediately my sisters and I would stop - dead still. I 'trained' my son to do the same. I remember the anxious feeling I'd have when I was a kid when she'd do that - it was always someone getting in trouble.
So I am dropping a lot of 'rules' that I once had. Control. Discipline is good, but at some point, it becomes too much. I like you was the uber responsible kid. I think it takes away the ability to be a kid.

While touring a apartment complex for S and I, I overheard this 'big sister' of 9 or so tell her brother 'Gabe, I told you that you need to keep the [toy] away from the little one' said in exactly the tone I imagine her mother uses. I felt bad for her.

I am having way more fun with life, with S, with work, and sometimes, even with H. And I have no anxiety!

I'm not worried about 'tomorrow' and what ifs.

My thoughts of H have taken the back seat.
I really took to heart what I learned. He will open up when HE is ready. I compliment him on things that I appreciate. I ignore the rest. His battles/struggles are not mine. I am in control of my thoughts. I used to try to remember that 'stop sign' - but I've since found that if I tell myself: "You have no idea what is going on, you are creating a movie instead of fact."

He leaves the house so quickly now with no words. I texted him the name of a song that I asked about earlier (it has some swear word name calling in it) he called immediately thinking that I was mad. He isn't sure what to make of me now!

I volunteer NOTHING!

I was listening to music at work, and a 'Amazing' from Aerosmith popped on. For years I'd sing along - but yesterday... I really 'got it'.

"I kept the right ones out
And let the wrong ones in
Had an angel of mercy to see me through all my sins
There were times in my life
When I was goin' insane
Tryin' to walk through
The pain
When I lost my grip
And I hit the floor
Yeah,I thought I could leave but couldn't get out the door
I was so sick and tired
Of livin' a lie
I was wishin that I
Would die

It's Amazing
With the blink of an eye you finally see the light
It's Amazing
When the moment arrives that you know you'll be alright
It's Amazing
And I'm sayin' a prayer for the desperate hearts tonight"

The last line especially - I am saying a prayer for everyone here and in our lives including our WAS's who are stuck in that place. It's no fun, sometimes things will still hurt, but it will be okay. I believe in that.

LIO, I must say your last posts have been refreshing. You are off to a great journey. And yes, that Aerosmith song is captive. All the best.

Are you still in a good place? Hope those positive thoughts keep you going in the right direction.

kat

His all!
Yes, I am still alive, actually more alive than I ever have been!
Thank you all for the great words.

I am filing divorce.

I realize I went. Into this trying to save my marriage. I realized that I ended up saving myself through divorce busting. For that, I am grateful. I have gone through the worst year of my life and it became the best experience I have ever had.

We don't always get what we want, but we get what we need.

I've deatached fully from h. I realized that not only was he unhappy in this marriage, but so was I. When we started to have different ideas about marriage, and when he cheated and removed himself, the cracks in the foundation started to grow. I agree trust could be rebuilt, but it's not going to happen with H. He won't do the work. I can't anymore.

I was knocked down unexpectedly to the lowest I'd ever been. I didn't think I'd ever see the light,and I'd hoped h would be along on my life journey. I was wrong. But...I am stronger, wiser, and grateful for this year.

I have listened to you fine folks, really questioning myself on why I'd want to spend my life with h. "because I love him" is a cop out response, I had to dig deeper. It was fear of being alone. Fear of finding who I was and what I wanted in life.

Addressing those made all the difference. It opened up new opportunities for me.

I am not a depressed person like I thought. I am in the best shape of my life, and I looks forward to what comes at me now. I do not live in fear.

I'll try to be more diligent of posting. I do know that I will not be looking back anymore. I look for opportunities for personal growth - I've just begun to scratch the surface on how messed up my relationship was to my psyche. i am noticing 'triggers' unexpectedly because of how my own needs in my marriage weren't being met either. So I am working through those so I can have a healthier, grown up relationship.

I'll be back

Hi there,

I have just read your post, it gives me some sort of hope, thank you. I admire how you have clearly stayed strong and learned about yourself and not let yourself sink. I hope I can do the same - today I feel like I am sinking but your post has given me hope.

Thank you and best of luck on the next chapter of your journey.

Amazing LIO, absolutely amazing. I realize I was not happy in my marriage either and it has only been a couple of months since H left. But I am still in love with him so I know that I have to go further down this path in order to let go.. It is hard because he wants to be like best friends, but to me emotional intimacy equates with physical intimacy in a relationship with opposite sex.

So I am going to keep reading your journey on how you got to this place and I will deep travelling..happy life LIO. You deserve love and happiness!

Hi LittleWings and Ruby Tuesday!
Thank you for stopping in!

I wasn't strong the whole time. There was definitely dehabilitating days where I could not get out of bed. There were days where I couldn't get past the anger. There were days where I cried and cried, days where I talked everything through with my BFF and the people on this board. There were days were I did all of it.

I considered it a good day if I got out of bed. An even better day if I could go to work. And a great day if I could do both. Eventually I worked in eating, and then exercising.

It took time. And a lot of effort. A LOT of effort.
I couldn't imagine the self-reflection I REALLY needed to do. What I still do. Everything was about what H did, and what he didn't do. Then I questioned my own motives and reactions. I read into everything H said. Good or bad.

I read and reread the rules, the book. I read into the success stories, trying to figure out how to make that mine.

I didn't realize that in it's own way, I would feel like a success on my own. For me - it was saving myself. Saving myself from lies, from having to justify bad behaviors and weaknesses (both mine and my husband's...) I looked at every angle, every excuse I had... I am still not perfect, but I look at my motives, what fuels triggers, and how to stop myself from spiraling.

I can't live in the past. We had a good time years ago, but over time it faded and I didn't see it for what it was.

I don't feel anything when H calls. He is someone I loved, and I am grateful that I spent so long with him and grew up with him - but we really are in two different places now.

I don't eagerly away his phone calls... we talk about S. We both care about S deeply. We share that. We do not share the feelings about our marriage, and what it was. We can occasionally talk about other subjects, but I don't hang on to every word. I see him for who he is right now. I do not judge him, I do not try to change him. I accepted that he and I have different ideas for what makes up a fulfilling life - and if I were to change his for mine, it would not be respecting him. He'd have to come to a compromise on his own - and I can't bend until I break anymore. So for now, here we are.

I want to encourage people to fight if it's their desire. I would not trade even the worst days if it meant I would not be where I am right now. I just choose to not fight now. I am at peace with it. I did everything I could. Some far off tomorrow may bring something different with H and I, I can never predict the future. I can only work on me... each day.

Friday, H and I go to the courthouse and fill in our paperwork...together. At the end of next month - we will be divorced. Not just a year ago, I would never expected to be at peace with that.

Good for you, LIO. Now I have some questions for myself. I really do wonder why I want to save my M somedays. Hmm

Quote:

I wasn't strong the whole time. There was definitely dehabilitating days where I could not get out of bed. There were days where I couldn't get past the anger. There were days where I cried and cried, days where I talked everything through with my BFF and the people on this board. There were days were I did all of it.

I considered it a good day if I got out of bed. An even better day if I could go to work. And a great day if I could do both. Eventually I worked in eating, and then exercising.

It took time. And a lot of effort. A LOT of effort.
I couldn't imagine the self-reflection I REALLY needed to do. What I still do. Everything was about what H did, and what he didn't do. Then I questioned my own motives and reactions. I read into everything H said. Good or bad.

I read and reread the rules, the book. I read into the success stories, trying to figure out how to make that mine.

I didn't realize that in it's own way, I would feel like a success on my own. For me - it was saving myself. Saving myself from lies, from having to justify bad behaviors and weaknesses (both mine and my husband's...) I looked at every angle, every excuse I had... I am still not perfect, but I look at my motives, what fuels triggers, and how to stop myself from spiraling.

Great post, LIO!

I think it's the amount of self-reflection and learning to sit with our feelings that causes people to drop out after a short while.

This is hard stuff. Thanks for the post which I just re-read.

You are a success story!

LIO, reading your feelings make me sad and give me hope, at the same time. i think we are near the same point in our M's to our H's.

sometimes, we just have to accept. we can't control. we have to think about our future and not our past.

i'm happy for you because you seem to have found some peace in all of this. that's what i want and need, too.

(((())))

Here's another gem: I have listened to you fine folks, really questioning myself on why I'd want to spend my life with h. "because I love him" is a cop out response, I had to dig deeper. It was fear of being alone. Fear of finding who I was and what I wanted in life.

I feel the same way!! I am trying to figure out how I feel about H. It's so hard when we've been together for so long. Let me know how you go thru your decision process.

LIO, I am new to your sitch but it is really inspiring. I'm especially inspired by your change of heart. I am a few months behind you - just very recently made the switch from "I will do whatever it takes to save the M" to finally accepting how unhappy I've been over the years, and starting to look at it from a different angle. Finally accepting that I might be happier without H, and accepting that I need to really focus on me now. Realizing that I have work to do to be kinder, gentler and happier.

You sound very positive and truly at peace. Keep posting... we all need the inspiration!

You sitch is inspiring and I have thought a lot over the past few days about your words, "Saying because I love him is a cop out".

You should be very proud of yourself and when you are ready for a new relationship find someone that appreciates the real LIO.

Hugs

How did Christmas go? Is everything still going well for you? Just checking in.

kat

Well hello almost a year later!
Christmas 2012 was fine - my ex and son went to Phoenix, I stayed here. We had 2.

He didn't want to do the divorce paperwork at all, but did have a lot of opinions about me. To be honest, I'm trying to remember everything - but know that I ended up developing a thick skin in dealing with him since then.

I moved to my own apartment in Jan, shared a bed with my son, got a roommate to save money, and in August, ended up moving up 2 hours away from where I lived for 20 years. I needed the space, my job, I found out was ending anyhow, and it just seemed like a nice new start - even though I knew no one.

Back February I found out about the latest girlfriend that he started seeing on our anniversary the previous September.
Apparently they are having issues now. They made it a year, but she discovered that she doesn't like the passive aggressiveness, the emotional withdrawing, and all of that.

Which brings me to this: he came by here for parent-teacher conferences, stayed in our son's room for the night, and tried to play house. It was nice in some ways - but I had this overwhelming anxiety with him being in my apartment.
As he sat on his 'old side' of the bed and held my hand and hugged me, like we used to years ago, he said 'isn't it nice I came?'
I said "honestly, you put me through hell for 2 years. And while this is familiar and is nice, I am anxious because I don't know what you will do next."
Finally said to me 1) he was sorry and 2) he didn't know what he wanted anymore but he was having problems with his girlfriend, and his life had gone downhill since leaving, and he's probably like 'his mom'
I suggested he might want to go to counseling himself because if he is - I believed she was bipolar, and if he could get that under control, he'd probably find his life turning around better. He seemed open to it.

So he is without a job and he is looking up here, my job is ending soon and I need to find one in my/my son's new town. I bit my tongue a lot with the antics of his girlfriend and facebook, and when he'd try to make me feel guilty for the decisions I had to make, I held my ground.

He hasn't done much to even say he wants to try again, will work on anything. I treat this as a regular November down period. Without effort, I'm having to tell myself this is all on him. I've built a nice life here, have tons of friends, go to the gym, have a social life. I'm not dating anyone (I discovered quickly that a person I was interested in was similar to my ex and need to re-evaluate that attraction!) And while I have men who are wanting to date, I feel very secure/confident on my own and building my own security not dependent on them.
Also, my son and my face have changed so much in one year. We had dark circles, dark lifeless eyes. Now we smile, we have hope.

Just need to get a job soon!

Oh I ended up getting the divorce in May. He signed it. He didn't want to go to parenting classes nor do any work for it.
I drafted it, got primary custody and everything I wanted.

Good for you LIO, being independent, seeing patterns and choosing to still work on your self. You sound like a great mom. I hope you are able to find a new job soon. Keep us updated!

LIO...nice to see you back and strong and confident. I wish you and your son all the happiness in the world

Ruby

Another success story. All the best to you LIO and your son.