Hello all,
These forums and Michelle's books pretty much saved me and my marriage back
starting in 2005. I am back for some support and help and maybe to be able to
help someone else because I have been through alot.
Currently my heart is broken again. I want to stand but am unsure of doing so.
My H has left me 4 times for 4 different women since 2005 and he had a few other sex
only ow. We have 6 kids together. We discussed the sex addict angle but when he starts messing around with a different woman all of a sudden it's me and not sex addiction. He is a serial cheater it seems and I seem weak and pathetic for taking him back and trying hard to stand for him.
We moved 1200 miles away from our hometown last year and have struggled alot financially . My H started a few arguments May after I picked up on the signs he was cheating again. He left the kids and me the last week of May to move in with a friend from work. He denied ow and started blaming me for all the wrongs in his life. We have been together 14 years. I was devastated when he left. In July lost his job because the place he works found out that he was having an affair with the girl who answers the phones. They both got fired. The guy he lived with came by my house late one evening with all his clothing and he moved back home bc he had no other place to go. H is 38 and ow is 25. She is married and has two kids. But she filed for divorce from her husband. H was home until the last week in August after calling up ow and telling her he missed their fun times and she made him feel good. While he was here at home he kept telling me home much he loved me and wanted to work on us and get help. He even promised our kids that he would never leave again and then two weeks later he walked out to a motel and to start seeing ow again.
I think I still love him and this hurts so bad. He is taking our kids to meet her tomorrow. He has told me he doesn't respect me and will always cheat on me that we didn't belong together and I messed up his life. I am freaked out and need some advice. Should I wait for him to maybe come back home? I don't want to be a doormat but made vows to him. He says he loves her and will change for her. They don't get to spend alot of time together so she is still very much a fantasy.
I know I left alot out but please feel free to ask questions
Should I just be patient and hope he comes around ? Or will he always be a cheater?
My kids are
Hi Lisa,
Welcome back. Sorry that you need to be back here but the people here will help you.
The story that you tell about your H makes me think that he will always be a cheater. It's happened 4 times already and you still keep taking him back. So what's to stop him from doing it again?
I know you made vows but I would say you're not married to a man who is taking his own vows seriously. When he says he doesn't respect you and will always cheat on you, I'd listen carefully. He's demonstrated that pretty clearly already.
I'm sorry Hun but I agree with regretfulLA
It's hard on me with two children, I can't imagine with 6! Are some of them grown?
It's probably harder that he comes and goes. You have a lot of thinking to do. He has came back 4 times now, chances are he will again. The question is are you prepared to take him back? I'm all four standing but four times in 7 years,.,, Are you willing to keep putting yourself through this?
Thanks for the input. I agree alot with what you saying. I do think that this is an issue that won't get better. I know this deep down and our children don't want him home. They don't even like when he comes to see them. He is staying in a hotel and drives 2 hours both ways to work everyday except Sunday. So there is no way for him to get the kids on the weekend. He comes to my house to visit them.
He has always overlapped his relationships. Before we started dating I knew the he changed girl friends alot and always had one waiting before he left his current one. I guess it just hurts me that this time he says he is changing for the better with her. He says that they have open communication and talk about everything and he makes him feel good about himself. He says they have so much fun together. It hurts that he says these things and I don't know how to deal with him.
He hasn't filed anything yet that I know of and he still wants to have sex with me which I gave into one time and I hope this isn't TMI but he wasn't able to perform. Maybe he feels guilty for cheating on ow. I know I shouldn't have done that and I learned my lesson there.
I think the techniques used in divorcebusting will help me get through this and turn the focus on me. I have used a couple already and I know this isn't a game but I acted "as if" and pulled back he freaked out and text me asking if I was seeing someone else. I told him that I am worried about getting my life together and I didn't say yes or no about another man. I know that may have been wrong of me not to clear the air. He text me and asks if I am going out with him and when I only answer if it concerns the kids he reads into it and I get a text from him calling me names and stating that he is going to have the kids meet his 25 year old gf/ow. H knows that will hurt me. He is taking them today to meet her a her kids. She is in the process of getting a divorce.
I know I should not even have thoughts about her but I do. I hate that he is changing for her and didn't change for the kids and me. He says that they are meant to be. I asked him if there was a future with us a few weeks ago and he said that you never know what life will bring. What a line! He seems so happy with her and she has contacted me a few times saying she was sorry for what happened and didn't know if it was going to last with him but she was sure going I try it out and that she didn't want another man telling her what to do
I hope this doesn't sound crazy. I just really need help getting myself together. It hurts so much that he is happy with her and changing for her. I got out phone bill in and saw that he is constantly on the phone with her either texting or actual phone calls 20 plus times a day.
Sorry for the long posts there are lots of things I didn't include yet but as I go through this I am sure it will come out.
Lisa
Soul- our children are 17, 14, 12, 10, 5 and 4
Soul, what makes you think he will come back. Is it bc he has always come back? He says this time is different with her than all his other gf/ow. He says he never was in love with me and has been unhappy this whole time. To be honest it would feel good to have reality hit them but they will probably weather any trouble and they will live happy
Loving someone doesn't make everything OK.
What do you really want?
Are you showing your children a life you would want them to follow?
Lisa, he may come back, he may not. But he's made it pretty clear that he doesn't respect you. You need to get up on your own two feet and not take this anymore.
Think about it this way. Go back and read your posts and imagine if someone else were telling you her story. What would you tell her to do? He's clearly established a pattern. He stays with you until something better/younger/skinnier comes along, and then follows that for a while... then when that doesn't work out you're always there for him... then away again and so forth. He will continue to do this until you put a stop to it.
Is this the person you want to be? Is this the kind of treatment you deserve? Think about why you are accepting this behavior as "ok". Are you in individual counseling by the way?
Yeah you are all right. I don't deserve this and my kids don't either. I try to set a good example for my kids and this is the one area I don't show them strength. I don't know why I accept this from him. I know that I apparently have veryow self esteem. I also feel so rejected. I enjoy him not being here bc everyone walked on eggshells and we were miserable. It just really hurts that he left me and is so happy with his new gf. I am left struggling with kids and bills and he gets all the fun. I know I am whining.
This ow is so cruel towards me and rubs it in my face that she took my H. She likes to say that he may have been a cheater before but things will be different with her and he is finally happy with her.
I am just hurt and lost. What should I do to pick myself up?
No I am not in IC. I don't have the money or time right mow
Labug, I don't really know what I want. I am starting to realize from doing some research that this might not be all my fault like H claims. I am embarrassed to admit it but it seems like it's emotional abuse. I have never seen it that way before but all the signs seem to point to it.
I am lost
Lisa,
Why would you take on ownership of your h's issues? Stop buying and drinking the koolaid that this man is trying to pawn off on you! You aren't makeing him go out there and have affairs. There is something broken within him and he is out there searching for something that he will not ever find or be happy with.
One of the first things you will need to do is set boundaries. Stop the revolving door of allowing this man to return home after he's had an affair. He has no respect for you or your marriage. Until he's willing to do the homework to win you back and prove to you that he can be trusted, he wouldn't be allowed to return to your home. He has to earn your trust, not the other way around.
BTW, be sure you are tested for STD's periodically. It's important that you do that since he's out there sniffing around ow.
I am in a sort of similar situation. And I am back again. I suspect my M is done. He is with XW1 and left me with our 4 kids. It seems so easy for me to tell someone else what to do. Impossible for me to do it myself. First, if you did DB before then you know you are doing everything wrong.
1. Set boundaries. Tell him what you expect and what will happen if it doesn't happen. If you are open to reconciliation then you need to stay what you need for that to happen. If you cannot even entertain the idea with OW involved then don't accept that.
2. I completely understand feeling relieved that he is gone on some level. I also understand that it is MUCH harder on you and you do have to be a caretaker to all those kids. There is little time left for you. I have actually been doing more activities with my children. We do the library on Sat mornings and free or cheap community activities fairly often. They are playing basketball and doing that sort of thing so it keeps me busy and I get out of the house. Consider these types of GAL activities.
3. IGNORE THAT W!TCH. Do NOT talk to her. No reason to. She is nothing to you. Certainly there is no reason at all for you to listen. She wants to laugh at you? Ha, laugh back. What kind of stupid twit gets involved with a man that has to pay child support for 6 kids? Is she planning on supporting him? Is it really THAT great? I doubt it. Of course, don't say that.
She only gets and hears what he wants her to. And my thoughts on that same as my own H OW- What kind of real woman wants a philandering cheater? None. Soon the sex becomes routine and they get bored. Then they start to notice the other things like morning breath the horrible family and things fall apart. You have been through this multiple times before you should KNOW this.
Of course this is not your fault. Perhaps the problems in your relationship leading up to this you have a hand in. Most certainly you do but the cheating? Nope. Not at ALL your fault.
4. Set up visitation and child support. Depending on your location you may be able to get child support started just by going into the local office. (this is to protect you and your kids)
5. My H has changed in the past for OW then reverts right back to the same jerky ways for me. You know why? Because I settle for that. That's why. When I quit accepting it, he will stop doing it.
6. You need to sit down and really really think about what you want in a M and if your H can reasonably be that guy.
For me- I know my H cannot. At least not without divine intervention that will truly change his heart.
In truth, despite knowing all of this it kills me every time I talk to him. It is like a knife in the gut. Unlike any pain I have ever known before. I really cannot even begin to fathom how you have gone through this 4 times.
I'm so sorry for your pain.
Please work on no contact and GAL. You CAN do this if you want to. But more importantly, this needs to be the last time. So either you change and demand he treat you as you should be and he comes back with real consequences and really tries to change and focus on M or you decide you can't do this and still move on in a better place.
I am using this thread to vent. I am so broken hearted. My kids came home from meeting the ow and said that she laughed so much and dad laughed too. I said really and they said yeah she was always laughing. I am so hurt. I am trying to hold it together I am broken
Thanks for the replys. I truly appreciate the advice right now. I don't know what to do. I have been through this so many times and it hurts everytime. I don't deserve being his safety net but I have allowed myself to be just that. This pain is horrible. I try my best to keep my composure I am too busy to break down.
I just received a text from him asking if I was home. I have been ignoring alot of his texts lately. I am trying to regain control of myself and my life. Apparently, this means that I am dating someone. He thinks that while he had our children today that I was with someone else. Not true at all. I haven't bothered even entertaining his words. He text me he was bringing the kids home earlier than usual and I didn't respond. He text me 3 more times asking if I was home or with my "boyfriend" ( what the heck) once he dropped them off he text again asking if I was home. I didn't answer as I was busy with kids. When I checked my phone again it had 4 missed texts from him. They all basically said for me to have a good night with "him" and he hoped I was happy and that he hoped we could just be friends. Why do this? He knows this is so hard on me. He left me for a 25 year old. He is 38. I am 37. This really hurts.
Yes I know DB and DR is for me first and that's why I am here. I need to put some of these techniques back in my life because they helped me tremendously in the past. I need to post here alot and hopefully be able to help others with the things I have learned from DB.
Thanks everyone
Let him think you are with someone else. Don't clarify a daggone thing. He lost the right to know when he walked. Don't lie but don't offer any explanations. You are right. Ignore the texts. If you aren't home or aren't finished with what you are doing then let him sit at the house with them until you get there.
Yes it hurts. I was so upset tonight. Then I cried in my room. My room. I don't even like saying that.
Take the time to figure out what you actually want. Do you want to try to put your M back together or not?
MKB, I don't think there is much left to save. We have been through so much together but he just won't stop the cheating. I can't do this anymore unless he totally changes which apparently he can only do with his latest ow. I haven't lied to him at all about me seeing someone else. I don't even know where that came from. I haven't text him back but have received several from him this evening that all basically said " I hope you and him enjoy your evening". I am thinking this isn't bc he cares or is jealous but it's him feeling guilty about having hurt me today with taking the kids to meet her. So if in his mind I am seeing someone it will help him not feel so bad.
Once again I don't think I would be able to live with this happening to me again with him. But he seems like he is happy with ow and they are soul mates. I will admit I am jealous but I will find myself again.
Thanks for stopping by and posting.
I am posting alot here. I hope that is ok. I woke up at 3am and can't get back to sleep. I need some advice. I have somewhat been pulling away recently. At first I did all the wrong things even though I know it's wrong. I got over it quickly and dropped the drama but I did keep texting him silly things that just popped in my head everyday. I was texting him almost all day and into the evening. Sometimes he would text back and sometimes not. I pulled back to only texting him during the day. In the last two weeks I have dramatically reduced my texting to him. In that time he has started to text me about little things and became a little more friendly. I have tried not to read into anything and I am not sure I want him back. I don't want to get divorced but you guys see what I have just started realizing that he doesn't respect me or our marriage.
Question is should I just drop all conversation and contact all of a sudden or should I send him an email telling him that I am moving forward and the ball is in his court. I don't want to seem desperate I have already shown that side I just want to show an independent person who will be ok no matter what. I also worry that if I pull back now too much he will think I am seeing someone and that will cause issues.
I need some advice from someone on the outside. I have gotten such helpful advice here and it's really helping me to find myself
Lisa,
You do not need to tell him that you are moving on. Actions speak louder than words...just do it!
Respond once in a while to h is texts...nothing says you have to be on the spot w/each and eveyrone of of them. You do have a life and children to look after and it's not like you are sitting there waiting on him to text.
Don't make it so easy for him to return home. He's got to prove to you that this is it and that he wants to earn your trust and love back again.
I totally agree snodderly. I just don't know the right steps to take. I am quite busy with the kids and my life but it seems that when I don't answer his texts right away he goes off on how he hopes I am having fun with my new bf and that he hopes it works out and maybe now we can be friends and all that mess. That is not even close to what is going on in my life. I know I need to get over feeling like I owe him an explanation. That's why I asked about sending him am email to let him know I am letting go so be would not think crazy and jump to conclusions.
I know I seem pathetic. I am just scared and needing advice
Lisa
Lisa, I agree with most of what snodderly is saying.
Why text him at all unless there is an emergency with the kids?
Why respond to his texts (unless it's an emergency)?
Lisa, what are the chances if he returns that he will cheat again?
Labug, I don't think he will be faithful. I don't even know if I want to save anything. I just feel numb really. I hate thinking about how happy he is with his new ow and how he all of a sudden changed and can be faithful and loving to her. It hurts alot. I hope to use DB to help me find myself first. This has always worked for me in the past. It was only that after I found myself and let him go that he has come home. There is where I fail bc after he is home for a little while I start becoming clingy and needy again. I usually end up giving up my dreams again to make him happy. I don't even know myself anymore. That's why I came back here to this bb to find strength.
You guys have no idea how much this is helping me.
Lisa,
Then allow the texts to sit if he's acting immature and they aren't an emergency. He wants you to be right where he left you and he wants to ensure that you are not seeing someone while he's out there doing his own thing.
Sounds to me like he's using projection and is baiting you to respond to him. Don't! If you have an emergency or it's child related, that is something else, but texts of what you shared w/us...no! Ignore him. There are some that want attention and they don't care if it is negative or positive.
Your h really needs professional help to explore all of the avenues of why he's cheating, i.e., the entire sexual arena. He definitely has something missing within himself that he can't seem to fill up/complete.
Lisa, you've been down this road several times, you know that you are going to be okay. There are no guarantees that this man will come home and then go out there again and cheat on you. You have to sit quietly and figure out what you want. Are you willing to allow him to return and do this again? Are you willing to be disrespected by him again? What is this revolving door demonstrating to your children? Honey, you've got to stand firm and do what is healthy and right for you and your family because he sure isn't.
You are going to be okay no matter what.
and just to add, you don't know that he's faithful and loving to her so stop torturing yourself. You don't what will happen down the road.
This has always worked for me in the past. It was only that after I found myself and let him go that he has come home.
What you need to think about is, are you willing to let him "come home" without showing you real changes. It's like letting the alcoholic who promises to stop drinking if you let them come home. Without out hard work and time, they will drink again.
I think any recurrent/addictive behaviors that are abusive to the family should be treated the same way.
You will be OK.
Have you read Codependent No More, if not get it today. If you have it, read it again.
Your not pathetic at all and don't let yourself think otherwise. IMO he is trying to control you by sending you those messages. He wants you to want him, Ti respond to him. He wants to know you will still be there if things go sour in his current R. Just ignore the texts, if you can do that reply saying that at his present time you are not seeing anyone but you will not be responding to this type of text anymore. He is free to think what he wants.
You will get through this.
I do feel that he is happy with her. I mean why not here at home we have financial difficulties, 6 kids, my disabled mother and his job that he works 12 hrs a day at then add in his 2 hr commute to work and 2 he commute from work. He has Sundays and Wednesday off. With her he has nothing to bring him down. It's all relaxed fun. She is going through a divorce bc she left her husband for mine. She told me she wanted freedom and someone to love her and that's what my husband gives her. He says she is fun and everything is so easy and natural. Yeah I have been here before and it still hurts to hear those things
I know how you feel. My STBXW and I share custody of children where I get them three nights a week. I don't know if AM is involved, but she sure loves the freedom. She goes out all three nights without a thought.
Yep Grateful, we are left to deal with their messes and they love their freedom
I have to say that I was the major cause of this situation. I was never there for her, and I don't think I met any of her needs. She now tastes what life is without me, and she is happy now without my weight on her.
Well it's good you realize that. My h always took me for granted and I let him get away with it. That's why I am in this situation.
I took her for granted as well. That is why I am kicking myself. I literally tried to change for years, and it took her filing for D for the changes that she wanted to take place. It is one of my many regrets.
I am going to read through your thread so I have your story before I try to offer any advice. I thank you for stopping by my thread. I appreciate all advice and views
I haven't answered any text this morning from him. He isn't happy about it and has started again on the " I must be with my bf" train of thought. I am thing not to answer back to defend myself. I did send him 1 text that a poster had suggested that said I wasn't seeing anyone right now and that we needed to stick with issues concerning the kids or our finances. I feel good about it even though he wasn't to happy with it and said that I was lying. I can't control how he feels so I am taking charge of my life.
Thanks to all those who read and post
I just got a text message from our cell phone provider about the payment not being made and service will be interrupted. He has this all in his name and locked up right with a password to even be able to discuss it with the company. He did this so I couldn't see his calls and texts to ow. This is the only bill he has been paying and that was so he could talk to her. All of our kids and my phone is on this plan. I text him that I had been contacted by Verizon and he text back that e paid it last week. But he would call and check on it. I don't like him being in charge of this so I am thinking of getting my own account started and getting the kids and I new phones. I think I made a mistake bc I text him that I didn't want h controlling out cell phones meaning the kids and mine and that I was going to open my own account. He replied to me that I should just add myself and the kids to my bf account. I don't know why he is on this kick. I ignored that and just received a text back that wasn't very nice. It just said " F you Lisa all you want to do is mess up everything and make everyone's life miserable karma will get you *itch."
I know this shouldn't hurt but I don't understand what I did. I am now feeling hurt bc I have come so far since he left and worked hard to get bills caught up and everything switched into my name bc he was threatening to turn off power and water
How do I handle this?
Definitely consider your own account. :-) Point of fact, he doesn't need to see who you are talking to. lol
Sorry for posting alot but I want to text my h so bad about an issue that came up with the kids. Not a huge deal but it has made me want to also text the ow. My kids mentioned something tonight that was out of line with them. And I need to let it go. But I am just freaking.
Don't, re read what he texted you earlier.
Do you have an attorney?
A few days ago I stood up for myself and told my h that I was expecting him to respect me and to give me a days notice on visits and to show up on those days. He told me that I didn't control when he saw his kids that he did. I don't argue. He responded with a text that he is seeing that I am trying to be firm bc I have a new bf. not true. He text me lots of threats and name calling. I ignored it all last night. This morning he kept on with his ranting I was on the phone with a cousin and he called 3 times and sent 7 messages while I was on phone. When I got off phone. I read the last text that said I had one more chance to tell him.
I I asked what he was talking about but he said too late. He called in sick and took his ow to a lawyer and filed for our divorce. Then he text me that he filed and that will teach me to ignore him and he hopes it works out with my bf. who is nonexistent.
I am kinda sad bc he did it out of spite and his assumption that I am seeing someone. But part of me is relieved. That finally the process is started.
Any support or advice.
I just read your story
I'm so sorry LisaLost..I'm a new DBer myself and I don't know what to say but you have my support!!
This isn't the first time I've read about a cheater who tries to lay all the blame on their innocent spouse. The only thing I can assume is that because THEY are a liar and a cheater, they just assume their spouse must be too. The really strange thing is that often they become wildly jealous of an OP that doesn't even exist. It's like their brain is short-circuiting or something. That's really what it sounds like, he's extremely jealous and he's taking it out on you.
Anyway, I think you did well to just ignore the messages. You were in a no-win situation, if you reply and deny it then he accuses you of lying, if you say nothing he accuses you of verifying your guilt through silence. I suspect that now that he's filed he wants you to beg and plead with him to stop, because don't forget this is ALL ABOUT HIM. Now you've got to decide if you are still interested in reconciling or not. If you are, I would just ignore the filing unless you're painted into a corner and have to respond.
Lisa,
It sounds like your H is very insecure indeed. He has to keep hopping from woman to woman to make himself feel manly, then has to accuse you in the process. My own H, who has screamed and cried about how badly he wants a D has thrown in a few times that I am really the one who wants the D and made comments about my imaginary BF too. It's insecurity, plain and simple.
Now that he knows you're not begging for him to come home, he probably doesn't know what to do, which is why he went and filed for D so abruptly.
From what I can see here, and I know it's not much, the way he has treated you over the years is grounds for a D as far as I am concerned. I know this is DB, but I really think he's doing you a favor.
Lisa are you sure he filed and isn't just trying to manipulate you? If he has no money then I can tell you a L would likely explain to him it would be considered a contested D and those are pretty expensive. My L wants a significant chunk of change upfront before filing the first motion. In fact, I am planning to see another and see what sort of payment options are offered.
Don't respond to his stupidity. He is likely jealous and really, that's okay. What is happening is the power is shifting and he is freaking out. Let him. Any R has to be balanced.
Thanks for all the caring responses. MKB, I am prett sure he did. He was pretty mad that I have pulled way back and informed him that I won't tolerate disrespect. He took off yesterday along with ow to go to our 12 year olds school to call him out of class to talk to him. The guidance counselor sensed something bc my son didn't want to go with him. My h then showed his butt and embarrassed our son. They asked him to leave and she phoned me and told me what happened. She also said she asked him why he was putting his son in the middle of something that should be handled between him and me and our respective lawyers. She told me he brought the ow into the school with him and he told the counselor that I have brainwashed everyone and he would take all the kids. The had the resource officer remove him. She also informed him that she has not spoken with me concerning this issue and until he showed up she had no idea we were getting divorced. She kept our son in her office as he was shaken up a d embarrassed but she said he left in a happy mood and opened up to her about how he was happy his dad wasnt home and we all were happier. That he loved his dad but didn't want to be with him all the time.
My h is the kind of person that reacts without thinking and regrets things later. So I am sure he did file. He hasn't been getting any reaction from me lately and is doing anything to produce one. I am not taking the bait. I am surprisingly calm about it.
One concern I have is that all these affairs and all the ow that were sex only he has never put our kids in the middle and he has done it twice in the last 3 days. Do you think he is realizing he has truly lost his grip on me and the only way to get to me now is the kids?
Thanks
Lisa
Regretful, I didn't post a lot of the back story and I will try to finds old posts from the beginning. I had to change my name at one time. But if you want to know anything I am an open book. So feel free to ask. I appreciate any thoughts. And in the beginning back in 2005 and 2006. I had plenty of 2x 4's to the noggin. By some old timers here. Was2sad and MNsteve I think that's right along with several others.
Thanks for your valuable input
I want to apologize for any grammar or punctuation errors in my posts. I am having to use my phone for this right now. I am trying to read on others who post here that are also in pain and feel hopeless so please be patient with me I soon will have my home Internet back as can hopefully help others like I have been helped and supported
Thanks
Lisa
Lisa- It's okay that he filed. In a sense he is going to force the issue with custody and frankly that is in your favor. Keep doing what you are doing. You might ask the resource officer at the school if they are aware of any counseling programs - free or low cost for your kids- I was surprised at the resources I found. Your H is most definitely still trying to control. You are holding up like a champ! Don't take the bait, don't get sucked in. Obviously, he DOES NOT have the kids best interest in mind or he wouldn't be forcing OW on them.
You can do this. Remember if things actually change that much you can always stop the D later if you should reconcile.
Yes I am ok with him filing I am just shocked at how he is bringing our kids in on it like this. Putting them in the middle. He has never ever done that before. Since I quit reacting and getting jealous and angry at his texts and calls and I demanded respect. He has went off the chart. This has nothing to do with love. He realized he lost control of me. All the times before I let him make the rules and walk on me even while he was living with other women. Now that's over. He is being so harsh. I am saying strong I want so bad to respond to his mean words but I am better than that. I am so proud I can finally say that. A little scared but proud
Yay!! You are better than that! And you are giving your kids a positive role model! Now they can see what it means to stand up for yourself and demand respect. That is a huge thing. I wish I had done that sooner with mine.
If you have followed my thread you will know that I have taken back control of my life. I have demanded respect where I have been a doormat before. I haven't responded to texts not concerning the kids and it has gotten so bad. I have to post on my phone for a few more days till I can get Internet and computer working again so I am sorry for the unorganized posts. You guys have helped me stay strong through the name calling and threats. I am not reacting so he has starting attacking my children by trying to put them in the middle. They don't belong there. Today he had off again for the 3 day in a row to spend with sick ow and her kids well that's his story. But he informed me he wouldn't be able to get the kids for visit this afternoon bc once again he couldn't leave her. Now mind you this is a man that when I had a miscarriage or I think they stated it as still birth at 14 weeks he refused to get off work to take me to hospital. I drove myself I remember being put in an er room after being told my precious daughter had died in utero the room next door was a woman with issues but the heart rate monitor on her for her baby was loud and still haunts my dreams. I am happy she didn't lose her baby so I didn't want to complain but it hurt me so bad to know my child was gone but still in my womb. I was alone. I called him at work I will never forget what he said. " well that's good at least I won't need to leave work. When are they releasing you so you can get the others from school ". I was devastated. But rationalized that that was his way of dealing with it. They decided to send me to a hospital 30 minutes away that is a university hospital and they would help me deliver my baby. The nurse called him to tell him and she came back into my room as they were putting me on the stretcher to transfer she asked me if I had anyone else to inform bc she had never dealt with a more selfish man in a situation like this. I was transferred to the other hospital. They gave me meds and the fantastic nurses took turns sitting with me. I delivered with almost no pain a precious baby girl as well as they could tell. I held her they let me bath her. No husband showed up. He did call this hospital to talk to me but the nurse intercepted and he told her I had caused an inconvience by him having to find people to get the others from school. He never came. I was finally able to get ahold of my friend from high school that lived 4 hrs away she came and got me. There is more but I am over talking my welcome
I am no saint but that's a horrible thing to do to your wife. When I got home my younger kids that didn't know better asked where the baby was and my husband said well mom couldn't handle it so she killed him with her body. I have never shared this before but I am tired of stuffing this stuff I have to heal. Even if no one responds. I need to journal this. And of course other things concerning marriage.
Any way back to tonight. After informing me he couldn't get them nor give me any money help. He decided again for the second day to give me surprise notice on getting kids. I told him no they made plans to go to a pizza thing at a friends church. He went crazy. Texting me every name in the book same old same old. No response from me. He then sent me a text saying he is coming to get them no matter what.
I told him no please do not do that. Give me the notice tomorrow and get them then. Nope not good enough. I told him they were at a church function. He called me a liar. Ignored. He then said he would see them tomorrow or Sunday and give me notice. 5 minutes later he said he was coming over to get the kids if he had to bust a window ton take them and when he left I would know he'd been there. Now he is 6ft 5 and I am 5ft 3 105 soaking wet and wearing boots. Years ago he snapped and beat me bad enough for me to spend a few days in hospital and he had jail time. Yes I am stupid for taking him back but well he had visitation and would say I wouldn't be there to protect them.
I had to call police I am embarased but had no choice. He showed his butt took the cops and almost got arrested. They made him leave but informed him that if I ever called them again for him being on my property then he would go to jail.
He laughed at me as he was leaving and said in front of two officers " she thought she was bad and tried to stand up to me in texts but I showed her I can still scare her. She is afraid of me. That's all I wanted her to know. I own her. Look at her shake". The officer told him he had 3 seconds to leave or be arrested.
I can't believe this is happening. Why worry about me if he is happy with his soul mate.?
Good news is that I am finally seeing his true self that I overlooked all these years.
Thanks for letting me post.
For those dbing. They do notice your changes so stay at it. Mine is just a psycho. That can't stand not being in control of me.
Keep venting. Keep letting it out. Really. It's good. Now tomorrow you may want to consider contacting your county attorney for a protection order. He's a jackass. My H is too but not to that extreme. He's just mentally jacked up. Not normally violent.
I will keep praying for you. You are right, he does notice the changes and it has him completely freaked out. He is fighting for his power. Not sure why he thinks that fear is the right route. My guess is OW is not sick but he is getting obsessive. Please protect yourself and your children.
I called him at work I will never forget what he said. " well that's good at least I won't need to leave work. When are they releasing you so you can get the others from school ".
That is positively evil. I really can't believe there are such cruel people in the world. It reminds me of a lady I worked with, she was the sweetest thing. When she was about to give birth to their 2nd child, her H drove her to the hospital and dropped her at the door, then went to play golf. He was still out playing when the baby was born. Your sitch is even more depressing than that though!
You could not tear me from my wife's side when our 3 children were born, I was there in the hospital by her side before, during and after. I snipped the umbilical cords on all 3. I watched as they appeared in this world for the first time. That was the greatest thing that has ever happened in my life. Unfortunately my W is looking for something more than a loyal husband and father. Some guy in shining armor on a white steed I guess, who knows.
He did call this hospital to talk to me but the nurse intercepted and he told her I had caused an inconvience by him having to find people to get the others from school.
Oh my gosh, that just makes me angry. I am amazed that you are a LBS and not WAS. He really treated you like dirt. That's horrible!
That's just beyond horrible. You deserve so much better. No one deserves to be treated like that.
Honestly it must be pretty bad for your S to say those things. Most children would give anything to get their parents back together, back to living under the same roof. Listen to your children, They love him but know that they would rather not live with him full time. To me that speaks volumes.
MKB- that's what I am doing exactly. I venting. I hope no one thinks I am posting for attention I am not. Maybe my story bit by bit coming out will help someone else. It helps me see how I wasn't loved by h I had such a hard time convincing myself of that. I wanted to be loved. I can be honest here and post what I have been holding back and not be judged and see that I deserve better that my kids go to.
Thanks to everyone.
You are fine. My story is equally as dramatic. I never really thought of it that way though. It was just my life. I learned to navigate it. Obviously not well or my M wouldn't have been so dysfunctional. It wasn't always. H didn't start really getting nutso until later. I guess that can be typical of that.
Yes, keep posting. No one is going to judge you. I myself have been posting a lot. I have been out of sorts the last couple of days.
Trying to gain strength from reading my old posts. From 2006 on and I am seeing a pattern with my h. Same cruel words same nasty behavior same blaming. Wow
I know this is necessary but it hurts like hell.
Trying to gain strength from reading my old posts. From 2006 on and I am seeing a pattern with my h. Same cruel words same nasty behavior same blaming. Wow
Has he ever seen an IC about his issues? 6 years of that kind of behavior is unacceptable.
He has claimed he saw a therapist in the past. Every single time he returned home. He refused MC but we saw my Pastor for Christian counseling until he disliked what my Pastor had to say. I myself have been in couseling since I was 12 bc of several issues the main one being my main caretaker which was my grandmother died of lung cancer. I had a really rough time with it. I may start a new thread for me detailing my childhood and issues that have carried over into my adult life that I have truly tried to work on and learn from. There I can throw in some background on my h for those who haven't been around the bb when I posted way back when dinosaurs roamed and to refresh those who were here. Maybe my story will help someone.
I am not a blame everything on your childhood kind of person. We all have rough stories I am sure but it helps to get it out and also helps others realize that they aren't alone. My h or should I say stbx is one who blames everything on his childhood which while hurtful and rough he has control over how he heals now.
He has broken down and admitted that he has a problem with sex, porn etc. but doesn't want to seek help. He says the right girl will fix him.
My sister is a forensic psychologist and has known him 15 plus years. She has seen his behaviors and blame shifting and more. She recently told me she would classify him as a narcissistic sociopath. Based both on his adult behaviors and his childhood experiences. She has explained to me that people with those issues lack empathy and the ability to truly love. All the info she sent me fits him to a tee.
I know this bb is for saving marriages and I wish I could save mine but not at the cost of losing myself or harming my children. I want to DB to save myself and also follow and learn from Michelle and others to prepare myself for my future spouse.
Newcomers. Marriages can be saved. DB works for you and can change your marriage. Mine failed bc my stbx it seems has mental issues he refuses to address. Keep trying everyone. Follow the steps and stand for your marriage. I think my stbx is the exception and not the rule.
I welcome any questions and want to offer help and support. So many helped me.
With love,
Lisa
Lisa we are in the same boat with the same goal. I wish you peace and please know there is nothing you can do to fix H and yes it hurts terribly. Especially, knowing that help is out there. It's like the old saying goes- You can lead a horse to water but can't make him drink. He will have to learn these lessons himself. In the meantime take care of you and your kids.
(((lisa)))
He has broken down and admitted that he has a problem with sex, porn etc. but doesn't want to seek help. He says the right girl will fix him.
My sister is a forensic psychologist and has known him 15 plus years. She has seen his behaviors and blame shifting and more. She recently told me she would classify him as a narcissistic sociopath. Based both on his adult behaviors and his childhood experiences. She has explained to me that people with those issues lack empathy and the ability to truly love. All the info she sent me fits him to a tee.
I am so sorry you're having to deal with this. It's hard enough DB'ing with a relatively normal spouse that is just going through a phase or adjustment, but clearly you're dealing with a H that has some very serious mental issues.
I know this bb is for saving marriages and I wish I could save mine but not at the cost of losing myself or harming my children.
That's completely understandable and I think most if not all of us here would totally support you if you decide to walk.
I want to DB to save myself and also follow and learn from Michelle and others to prepare myself for my future spouse.
That's a great attitude!
Wow, h's ow just had the nerve to call me pathetic. She called me this after h found out I had filed for temp support, alimony and custody plus visitation. Really she called me pathetic? Wow
Don't buy into it! You KNOW better! Not pathetic - smart- protecting yourself and your children. Scr@w her. Let her support him. lol It's not all sunshine and roses. There are real actual consequences to their actions. Please do not talk to her or communicate with her anymore. Frankly, I told H if his ever did again and I found out and knew for sure it was her that I would change ALL of our phone numbers and not give them to him again. I meant it too. Don't tolerate that.
How have you been? You haven't been on in a few days.
I have been trying to work through some things. It's been tough. I don't consider myself pathetic at all yes I have done some pathetic things but not recently. It's just the irony that the homewrecker she is would call me pathetic
I want to post more later. It's been rough
I know this bb is for saving marriages and I wish I could save mine but not at the cost of losing myself or harming my children. I want to DB to save myself and also follow and learn from Michelle and others to prepare myself for my future spouse.
I think of it more like it's saving yourself, and a byproduct is saving marriages (if possible - though honestly in your case I would recommend you save yourself!)
Is it all possible for you to see a IC? I know you said you don't have time, but usually it's 45-1 hour per week, or every other week or so. They also operate on a sliding fee scale and if you go to a larger place, they have grants provided by the state and counties. Also check into your county. I wasn't aware of this until reviewing the divorce paperwork but my county has counseling available for no cost.
Yesterday afternoon my 14 y/o and 10 y/o went down to see their brother my 12 y/o who had decided to try to live with my stbx and his 25 y/o gf for a bit bc stbx promised him all kinds of money and gifts. They found the apt and of course ow was there with my son. He came out to play with his brothers and chat in the parking lot. My 14 year old said she stared alot at them and used her phone alot an laughed and giggled while on the phone. He said she came over to them and asked what's up and my 14 yo s asked her I leave and let them spend time with their brother. She freaked out on him and then he freaked out on her he said he called her a homewrecker and she should have found her own man and so much more. To which she just laughed and said well if your mom had been woman enough she wouldn't have lost him. The according to all kids she smirked. They said she stood there saying things like I have changed your dad and made him a happy man. So F off little boy. My son said he told her some unkind words then left. My 12 yo was left crying.
Why did the "adult" woman argue with a kid? Why not stay in your apt and let them spend time with each other? My stbx then calls me and a me I create all this drama bc I am jealous of her and want him.
I am so sick of this.
Why ?
Thanks Lisa
First of all - I can understand them wanting to see S12 but why in the world would they go over there alone with her? Secondly are you certain S12 WANTS to be there?
Thirdly - I would recommend something more traditional as far as visitation. Honestly for us the time initially apart from H was helpful in letting the kids get into a routine and know what to expect. Also, that continuity is important so that they know even if one parent is not there that they have you. This is imperative.
Also, I would encourage S12 to come back home. You need to decide what you want. Really. Do you want to stay M and try again or do you want D? Whichever you choose you need to sit your kids down and rationally and calmly tell them. Then you need a game plan so that all of you know what you can expect. As for OW- as I said you should limit all contact with her if possible. In the future if the kids want to see each other why not contact H and ask him to bring the other over or even have them ride the bus after school if need be. These confrontations are damaging.
Hang in there Lisa.
H was at work and the boys didn't think it would be that big of a deal to go see of their brother wanted to play. She had already met them so it shouldn't have been a problem and it wasn't until she came out.
I understand what you are saying and I am getting a divorce. My lawyer is going in for temp custody, support and visitation. I have tried to do visitation between us but it has never worked.
He just moved into this girls apt after their being together for less than 4 months. Oh and he told the boys they were welcome anytime. There is a huge community park right next to her apt. She is on section 8 and so low rent they have no bills and are just lovin it up.
S12 wants to be there for now bc they are buying him things. H had also told s12 that he has given me money an he has not but .....
Trying to take it day by day. Just ready to be myself again. I am the only one holding me back.
Thanks
Lisa
Hi Lisa,
Been a long time. I happened to log back in as I spoke to someone who's son recently seperated and thought I would poke around the forum and here you are. What is going on? I didn't read your whole thread, but I see you are in IA now.
Let me know, Steve
Steve , it has been a long time. Super long drama I am looking forward to be out of soon. I was hoping to find you floating here somewhere. He had numerous other affairs current one he is living with since he left 3 months ago she is 25 he is 38. Once again she is different and his soul mate and I am garbage. I lost the strong Lisa I had become. Would love to get your advice sometime.
Love
Lisa
Oh yeah I am in Iowa now. Dubuque to be exact.
Lisa,
Fill me in on the last couple years. I remember seeing photos on myspace with you and the family (H too). Also remember your oldest being involved in baseball and H being very supportive of his efforts, actually being involved. Also remember the trouble H was in at the car dealership. Your Mom and sister also were there for you as family in the past. Being in Iowa, this may not be the case with the relocation. After that, my memory is pretty fuzzy.
So here you are, having lost the strong Lisa and distraught with another OW in the picture. Very understandable. When we mix emotions with trauma, our reasoning ability vanishes, as to be expected.
I've reviewed your thread and have to ask this question. What is your goal? Having been through this is your intention to save or to become strong, GAL and move forward?
This is about what you want not what your H wants, does, or says. Let me know your thoughts and we'll go from there.
And if you remember, patience, patience, patience.
Steve
Steve,
Thanks so much for responding. I think at this point I am thinking it's best to save myself. There has been countless other women. We now have 6 kids. I don't think I can do this anymore. He is being so cruel with this new girl. She is 25 a getting divorced for her h. She has 2 kids ages 5 and 3. He moved in with her after not even 4 months. I am typing this on my phone am will have my Internet and computer back Friday. I hope I will check in when it's easier to post.
How are things with you?
Lisa
Great, h called I answered like a dummy. He started to tell me that he feels really bad that he did love me and was in love with me at one time but that we just don't belong together. That he doesn't love me in a way to spend his life with me. He just thought I should know in case I thought I had a chance since he always came back every other time. This time is different Lisa. I am in love and we don't fight. She is fun etc.....
It still hurts. Bad
Thanks,
It just hurts to hear those words and to know that I am nothing to him.
First of all, YOU ARE NOT GARBAGE!! You're homework is to work on your self esteem. I suggest you do that quickly because your H's problem will and has done a number on you.
I have had only one OW. I don't need anymore but can only imagine what it must be like to have to go through all this more than once.
I hope you find yourself in all this. As MnSPD (aka Steve) asked you what are your goals?
Truthfully, and I feel I can be honest here. I have no idea what my goals are. You are right. Self esteem is a major issue. I don't want to seem helpless but I don't know where to begin. One day I am strong and the next well a meek woman.
I had to start from square one. I got a workbook, The Self Esteem Workbook. It helped. From there I slowly crawled out of the hole I dug myself in.
Find a support group. Divorce/sep group at church? 12 step program (Al Anon helped me tremendously!), Are you going to an IC?
No IC yet but it looks like I am not strong enough to so this on my own. You know I don't think actually I am pretty sure I don't want him back but why is he so happy with her? Why are they so perfect and different from all the others? That's what kills me. He is her knight and shining amour after less than 4 months together less than 1 living together. All he does is praise her. Ugh huh
No IC yet but it looks like I am not strong enough to so this on my own. You know I don't think actually I am pretty sure I don't want him back but why is he so happy with her? Why are they so perfect and different from all the others? That's what kills me. He is her knight and shining amour after less than 4 months together less than 1 living together. All he does is praise her. Ugh huh
It's puppy love. They're in the phase of the R where the other can do no wrong:
"He snores and it's sooooo cute!! Oh and I just love the way he slurps his soup! And look at how he leaves his clothes all over the floor, it's just darling, he's like a kid! I just love picking up after him, makes me feel important!"
A few months of living together and it'll be:
"How in the world does he expect me to sleep when he snores ALL THE TIME??? I'm tired of sleeping on the couch!! And I don't even serve soup anymore, you should see how disgusting he is when he slurps it, it's like some bridge troll that hasn't eaten for 6 months. And don't get me started on his clothes, he leaves them EVERYWHERE! I'm sick and tired of it, I swear hell would freeze over if he picked up one sock off the floor. He's a SLOB!!!"
AS- I must say- Your post encouraged me too. I need to keep sight of what is REALLY happening.
Yeah I know it can't be all rainbows and unicorns but they sure make it seem like it. We are the perfect match. We talk about everything. She quit drinking and smoking and I am going to also. We communicate so well. Never fight. We have nothing to fight about. Blah blah blah.
You know we go through the sickness and poorer with them. The op get the better the health and richer.
Nah. It's okay. The new will wear off. Besides you don't know her history. She could be rebounding as well. Better to not engage but when you do see him make sure you look great!! All the time. I used to not be a morning person. Now I am up, dressed, make up and hair by 7 even if not going anywhere because you just never know!
Get on here and vent. It will help. Don't let them occupy too much of your time and thoughts and certainly don't listen to that crap when he says it. For that matter- No more R talks at all!
lol You CAN do this!
I try so hard not to think he now has this perfect life and the kids and I are struggling. He just says things like Lisa you don't understand it's so easy to talk with her and we share our dreams and she is so laid back and fun. She is an it is what it is kinda girl. Then he starts with the you are always stressed and need things planned and we never go out partying. Well H we have 6 kids and a home I have to run. She is 25 and getting a divorce and has two kids 5 and 3 which se puts in school and daycare . She drinks and smokes and I don't but he says she all of a sudden quit drinking except with meals. She left her husband for mine and they moved right in . My kids tell me when they are around her that she hangs on dad and giggles and laughs. Yeah I am a little jealous I can't want this man back he has left is for so many women and I always let him come back. This time he says he has found the one and is gone for good.
Lisa- the best revenge is living well. Remember that. You are focused on them because you are unhappy right now and feel stuck with all the work, heartache, and responsibilities.
Don't ask kids what they do. Don't talk to him about anything but the visitation. Everything else- nope. If you have business make a list of the things that need discussed and try to do it all at once. Do NOT listen when he talks about his R. He is doing this to make you jealous or hurt you. No other reason. So know this and don't bite.
Take care of you. GAL can start with kids activities. Try to fit some exercise or walks in with the kids. That will be nice for all of you. So many things you can do. You CAN do this. Once you put the focus back on you then your path will be clearer. Also, perhaps without an "audience" they will not be so outrageous and hurtful. Mundane is much better than drama. So let them settle in. Nothing like bo and morning breath and all of that to really give a dose of reality.
I just keep thinking that my H used to go on and on how he hated XW cooking, her family, and the sex was not good. Oh and she was naggy. So I am hoping leopards don't change their spots. Also, she was a cheater. Hopefully she never found DB!
Your H OW is obviously a cheater too. You can bet that may come into play. :-) combine that with a young girl who just got her freedom and likes to drink and party. Again, leopards aren't likely to change their spots. Hang in there.
Thanks for the response. I just wanted to clear something up. I don't ask the kids about their visits. They are older so they come home and talk to each other and of course I either overhear or am in the room. They don't mean anything by it they just make comments like " who giggles that much" and did you see how He followed dad around. That kind of stuff.
We don't really have talks about much concerning kids bc he starts in with well ow does it this way with her stbx and she doesn't ask him for extra money. I want to say yeah cause she has ur extra money. Unless I agree with him he refuses to discuss the kids. And if she is around he refuses to discuss anything.
I am trying to busy myself with things to keep my mind off of this. Why does this bother me so much when I don't want him back?
My take is you let him control conversations and the power in your relationship. Something I have really struggled with is my H not stepping up for the kids. However, I finally just decided oh well. His loss. I have to do this, I'm gonna do this, and if he doesn't make the effort then that's okay.
I basically told him what I expected and then I left it alone. If he is telling you about his OW and their R you should say if it is not the kids then I do not want to discuss it. Say it calmly, and civilly. Tell him what you will do if he insists. Then follow through. It's really like parenting a child. Lord knows if you have 6 you can do this!!
If my H was rude or nasty I just stopped contact. That could be hanging up or walking away. Now, at least I don't have the passive aggressive antagonistic behavior to deal with. He actually does follow the guidelines that I have set. They are not overly harsh or restrictive. Just respect me. Since he hadn't for so very long it was very hard at first.
As far as money you filed for support I believe? Also, while unfortunate, the reality is you may have to get a job. If you have older kids can they help with the younger ones? This is about survival and you have to do what you have to do.
You are spot on. I have let him control everything so he doesn't get mad. I have filed for support alimony custody all that temp order until divorce. He makes a very decent living. I am looking for work and have dug myself out of this hole financially he left me in. With him controlling the bills and payments. When he left everything was behind and no one would work with me bc he had broken too many previous payment arrangements. We went without hot water most of the summer while I chipped away at the bill then got in my name only. Our power was out for almost 2 weeks due to him breaking arrangements and then they wanted all the budget billing up front. I finally got that handled. I have everything in my name only now. He took my car when he left so I went and bought this old beat up Honda civic for 300. So I have proven I can do it. It just [censored] so much. I know we all here know that it's not fair feeling.
He hasn't contacted me about seeing any of our other children. He has his favorite with him now. So should I just go as dark as possible ? He freaks when I ignore him. I know that's a control thing not a love thing.
I just want this to blow up in his face with this girl so I can tell him where to go. Don't we all we all feel that way sometimes? It can't be as good as he makes it out to be can it? Maybe it can ? But it's actually only been 3 months not the 4 I thought and he has lived with her about a month.
Please somebody 2x4 me!!!!!
lisa
Don't know why it says censored. I don't think I used a bad word lol
So I just re-read Sandi's 37 rules. I have been here countless times before but have a question with the believe none of what you hear idea. Does that mean when he gave me the speech yesterday I think it was about I used to love u but don't anymore. Don't see a future with you I found my soulmate I love u bc your my kids mom. But I have no romantic feeling for you anymore. Doesn't that have to be true? Please don't think I am an idiot. Yes I need 2x4s right now. I have done some work around the house like making our bedroom my own these last few days and working on GAL.
Do I even love him or am I codependent?
Lisa,
I have never posted to you before, but let me tell you - I have actually read ALL your threads. Yes, all the old ones and this new one. I did so a year or so ago when I was looking for success stories around the board. First let me tell you that I am very, very sorry that you are in so much pain. I totally get how hard it is, specially with young kids.
Now I have to give you the 2 x 4. A harsh and long one. Please know before-hand that I mean no disrespect and that I only want to try to help you. I might be completely off-based here, but at least I know your sitch well, because I have spent hours and hours reading all your posts and I forewarn you that this is probably the harshest 2 x 4 you will ever get. PLEASE know I just want to help you!
So here it is.
I think that you are stuck. How do I know? Well, first because I am too and I know how hard it is to get out of that mode where you are just focused on one thing - YOUR H. I remember your sitch so well, because reading your posts was so hard for me. It made such an impression because I could sense your hurt, but also because it made me want to shake you when you were in the middle of chaos, just like you are now.
If you went back and re-read your old threads, you would think they are carbon-copies of this one. Your thoughts and emotions are identical. Your H's behavior and actions are as well. Your reactions to him have not changed. And what struck me the most after I read all your threads last year was the notion that you took your H back - repeatedly. I considered yours the most incredible "success" story based on how much you had to endure and how mean your H was. So here you find yourself again in the same sitch, so the success story didn't work out.
I have to be honest - I would get very, very upset and angry when I was reading about your sitch because I don't think ANY human being deserves to be treated the way your H has treated you. I don't care what you had done wrong in the M, nothing justifies the abuse and torture he has submitted you to. He clearly has a lot of issues - and in my opinion, some very, very serious mental issues.
Why do I say that?
Your H has been probably one of the meanest, most abusive spouses I have seen here. By your own admission in very old posts, he has said the most hurtful things I can recall telling someone, much less the mother of his kids. Do I also recall that there has also been some physical abuse? I don't mean to bring painful memories back, but I think it's important that you see your R with him as a WHOLE, not just what he is doing now.
You had also mentioned years ago that he has a sexual addiction and he at some point was trying to deal with it. Yet I also remember him later recanting on having any issues or being responsible for any wrong-doing? Didn't he also have some issues with alcohol or drugs? I might not be remembering that correctly, but I thought that there was some heavy pot-smoking involved in one of his R with one of the OWs. Again - I could be confusing you with someone else and I apologize if I am.
And he cheated on you, not only once or twice, but repeatedly. And not just go away with OW for a few hours here and there and keeping his affairs under the radar - he has left you and his own children REPEATEDLY and moved in with other women and exposed all your children to the most unhealthy patterns of behavior with all these OW.
I believe that he doesn't love you. He just doesn't have the capacity to love ANY woman right now and his behavior has proved it for years. If I recall correctly, you at some point talked about him hating women? I do believe he does. I hope you can see that he not only doesn't respect you, but also none of the OW involved in this. Not that they are helpless victims, but your H clearly just uses women to feel good and discards them when he doesn't. His behavior has shown that for years.
I also want to address his behavior as a father. He has abandoned his children repeatedly - physically and emotionally. He fights with you and at least in the past he even treated you horribly in front of the kids. He has ignored his financial obligations to his kids many times, controlling you and being vengeful at you by withholding money for basic needs.
Yet, you are just thinking about your H and what he feels and what he does and what he says and if he means what he says to OW #20,849... And you always take him back.
So to answer your question:
Do I even love him or am I codependent?
I am NOT a professional (and I will please beg you to go get some professional help as the #1 thing you do), but I personally don't think you love him either. I think you have a very co-dependent R with him and I don't know why. Only you and a professional can discover the reasons and find the way to break from it. But I strongly recommend that you find a CODA (Co-dependents Anonymous) group ASAP. I know it has helped me more than I can say. Until you find one, google co-dependency today and start learning about it now.
I also think you are a victim of abuse and that your self-esteem has been completely destroyed by this man and it saddens me because I can see how valuable you are as a human being and really want you to see that and act in a loving way with yourself. You need professional help to find out what is it that you have been getting out of this very unhealthy relationship for years. That is where therapy would come in.
Sorry to be blunt, but how many more chances do you need to give him until he can prove to you that he has changed? How many more OW will there be? How many more times will he leave you and the kids again?
What further proof do you need that he is not able to stop his behavior by himself? He needs help and until he gets it, he won't change. And NONE of this is within your control so you need to stop focusing on him.
Because the real issue here is not that your H treats you like crap (because he does so with everyone in his life), but why you take it and how are you going to stop it. His behavior to you and your kids will only stop when you make it stop. Period. It's all about having boundaries and CODA can also help you with that.
You are an amazing woman. Strong, loving, loyal, forgiving, caring... It always came through to me in all your posts. You just need to realize that you deserve A LOT better than this. One thing I have learned from my own journey is how low my self-esteem is and how it has led me to a very dark, unhappy place and to accept things that are destructive. And I believe you have the same problem, so I understand that it's not that easy to see that in ourselves.
I want you to be happy and move on and get a better life for yourself, but if that doesn't seem like a good enough reason to take a strong stance and really change your life, then let me say that you have the 6 most important reasons to stop this insanity...
The day you became a mom, your life changed. You are not just responsible for yourself anymore, your goal in life is now different. You have 6 kids that depend on you like nothing else. And they deserve a lot more focus from you than your H does. You don't really talk much about them or how they are struggling with all of this...I know you adore them and you are trying your best to give them all the love they need, but you are dealing with bigger issues here.
Look at how emotionally devastating this relationship has been for you AS AN ADULT. Now imagine what it has done to them - they are just kids! Are they in therapy? How are they coping? What specific actions have you taken to help them deal with this?
I don't know anything about the laws in your state, but I wonder what your L and a judge would say given the history and extend of your situation and struggle with your H and how irresponsible, immature and abusive he has been with you all. Perhaps you will need to force your hand legally with your H to get him to behave and be responsible to his kids. Get ALL the help you can.
Your kids need some stability that they have not had for years. For your younger ones, this way of life is probably all they have ever seen. You need to be the adult one and protect them and SHIELD them from this madness. Your H's behavior is erratic, impulsive and he doesn't care how his craziness affects the kids. But you are aware (or should be by now) and it's all on you to take them away from this environment. It might not be fair, but this is what you have in front of you and what you need to deal with.
YOU NEED TO FORGET ABOUT YOUR H. He is toxic, destructive and abusive to all of you and if this continues, who knows how you and your kids will end up - physically and emotionally. IF your H ever changes (and that would require extensive professional help and YEARS of consistent, healthy behavior), then you can start worrying about what he says or does. But you are years away from that. You have bigger things to worry about.
Lisa - you are an incredibly strong woman. You have proved it by surviving this craziness for so long. Yet it is now time to use your strength not to survive, but to end this and give yourself and your kids the life you all deserve. My bet is that once you get yourself and your kids in a healthy emotional place you will probably not want him back. But that is not important now.
Please, Lisa - break free from this pattern of abuse and model healthy behaviors for your kids. You don't want your boys to grow up to become just like their dad and you don't want your daughter(s) to grow up thinking this is how a man should treat a woman.
You owe it to yourself and to them.
Lisa, I am so sorry I have to be so blunt, specially when I had never posted to you before. I just feel like you need a real shake-up and wake up call and I don't know that many of the people that are reading your thread now know the whole story and how far back this insanity goes... I feel like this is a mini-intervention and if I am being harsh and direct it is because I can't just sit here reading your thread day in and day out and just come and post that it will be ok, that you are doing great and that you should hang in there and be patient and ignore what your H says and does.
That is in my opinion the problem - you have been ignoring your H's behavior for years and now you need to end this.
Please accept my apologies if this is hurtful and I am not intending to cross any lines here. Please know that I am just trying to help you and your kids. I mean nothing but the best. I hope you don't think I am judging you - I am no one to do that. I just want for you to see your situation with different eyes so badly. I want you to see it with self-forgiveness, compassion and love for yourself and your kids.
Please come back to vent often, don't let me scare you. You need it so much. You will find support here, you know that because you have been here before, but I also would love for you to come back and share what actions you are taking to change your life and that of your kids. Stop being LisaLost - it's all in your power and many of us here are cheering you on!!!!!
((((((LISA))))))
Keep Going,
I sooo much appreciate your post to me. You basically put into words the thoughts I have but can't seem to say them. It's hard for me to admit that he doesn't love me. It's hard to admit that this has been an abusive M and that I allowed it. I will be starting counseling the first week in December and I have been reading self help books. I know all this stuff I just can't seem to practice it.
I went back and read all the old threads of mine I could find also and I noticed the patterns. He has said the same nasty words to me and the same glorious words about the ow. It opened my eyes. I tell myself he has issues that no woman can heal but then it seems this new ow is his magic ticket to becoming the man he is suppose to be.
I need to stop torturing myself with this. How can someone who has been this way with every woman in his life suddenly change after 3 months? But he apparently has. Smack I needed a 2x4 for that last thought
I am going to retread your post over and over till I get it.
Thanks for the thoughtfulness you put into it
Lisa
Hi LL,
My heart goes out to you. So much heartach for so many people for seemingly no reason.
Worse than that LL are all the countless hours you have spent in pain, crying, in sadness, and alone...
Think of all the things that could have been done. All the people you could have met. All the fun you could have had... And not just you . All of us on this board that have spent those countless hours in sadness... I'm sure it adds of to many lifetimes. What a shame that is all that wasted time.
I am known as a "hard line approach" person on this board. My Ex had an EA, and at the end of the day, I could not get past that betrayl. I don't say that claiming to be right. I say it because it was what worked for me. To save myself I needed a clean slate. And a person that I knew would be devoted to me and me alone.
It's time for you to be strong LL. Time to demand respect. Time to realize your self worth. Time to show your kids a strong person worthy of true love.
I have never told a person to leave their spouse. Not on this board and not in my real life. And I'm even hard pressed to say it to you now...
BUT...
This board and these books have less to do with saving marriages and more to do with saving ourselves.
SO...
My thought is you can't save yourself in the relationship you're in. You may never be yourself. May never be secure. May never be happy. May never be the woman you were intended to be. Is he worth that? Is anyone worth that?
I may be wrong... And if i am, than follow your heart. YOUR TRUE INNER VOICE. And do what's best.
And save yourself...
Peace and love to you LL.
Hope everyone has a nice evening. I am going to settle in a surf the web on codependency and ways to overcome it. I am also going to look for some good websites on low self esteem and fixing that issue. My Internet will be on Friday so I won't be posting from this iPhone which I am grateful for it just makes it hard to read others threads and offer support.
Love
Lisa
Lisa,
You just received some fantastic insight and advice from the last 2 posters. What you need to do is identify your goal(s). Without a focus, you will continue to drift. Take your time, do the reasearch, look for patterns (yours), keep the issues to you only don't concern yourself with others as you have no control over them.
Be your own solution detective, prioritize things you can identify and then execute a plan to address them. Don't over whelm yourself by working on too many things at the same time. Actually, post some of them here and let the DBrs give some input. There are very insightful people here.
Get to work on identifying the issues, then the solutions and the rest will follow.
Slow and steady wins this leg of the marathon.
Steve
Steve, I need help with goals. I don't know where to begin with them.
Sure you do! Let me give you a head start--I will follow up and use these too! Seriously.
Goal #1 - Block as much communication as possible/ practical. For me I would also block your childrens for the time being. Long enough to establish some normalcy for them without him constantly butting in and being jerky. Really even a week would be good to let everyone cool off and calm down.
Goal #2 - follow up with child support to be sure it is happening. Also- Check your state- mine has tough support laws- use those to your advantage.
Goal #3 - Do what you have to in order to ensure a safe environment for your children - change locks, consider restraining orders, whatever you need.
Goal #4 - Please be certain to talk to your kids' school and let them know the situation. If you get protection orders be absolutely certain they are aware of it to.
Goal #5 - KNOW you CAN absolutely do this!
Fantastic list of goals!! All controlled by you, have no reliance on anyone else. Lisa and MKB23, when you accomplish this list I want both of you to recognize you are moving forwad with GAL. One key tool you have at your disposal is your spouses mind. In the same way his actions are controlling your thoughts and thus behaviors, your actions can do the same. I'm not saying either of you want your spouse to return, but you want to take control and you can!! You will be amazed what transpires when the balance of control shifts to you and away from your spouse.
Keep the goals in the fore front, recognize the accomplishments as the happen and keep moving forward. We are here to assist if you stumble.....2x4 ready.
Steve
Almost forgot. Happy Thanksgiving!
This is a great excercise. If you can truely be thankful today and feel content on the inside with what you have, you are successfully letting go of the rope. Recognize it and believe it! It is 100% true!!
Steve
Hi Lisa -
A DB goal is what you want to Achieve, not the steps it takes to get there. You very often have to break those into smaller goals.
You determine the steps to try after deciding what you want.
Lisa - there is no judgment here. You deserve to be happy. If you decide you want to try to win him back, that's fine. If you decide you've had enough, that's fine. If you want something in-between, that's ok too. We are here to support you in what YOU want.
If he is behaving poorly, it is not a reflection on you. It doesn't mean you are doing anything wrong.
Happy Thanksgiving!