My old thread had exceeded 100 posts, so I'm starting a new thread. It seems like I've been extremely busy lately, so I apologize - I haven't been posting very often.
Here's my old threads:
Continuous Confusion Trying to love my WAW from a distance Trying to love my WAW from a distance II Trying to love my WAW from a distance III It's a marathon, but where are the mile markers? Still in the marathon - am I going the right way? Marathon continues. It is me or is it all uphill? Where is this marathon leading me anyway?Still in the marathon - did I miss a turn?Marathon continues. Where we going, anyway?Why did I sign up for this marathon, again?Why was there no course map for this marathon?Is this really an ultramarathon?Who designed this ultramarathon course? Ultramarathon continues...was there a detour?Ultramarathon continues..will I get a second wind?This ultramarathon has plenty of hills, no?How long is this ultramarathon anyway?Ultramarathon finish line or hallucinations?Well, it has certainly been a long journey. When I started this journey, my W was on the fast track to D. I think she had a 2 month timeline in mind. FWIW I am 20.5 months into this journey. So if you're new and reading this and don't think you have a lot of time to DB, you may in reality have more time than you realize. For me this started as sprint, turned into a marathon, and it's progressed to be an ultramarathon.
I was certainly given the gift of time. I have chosen to use it as wisely as I can. GAL'ing has become a way of life for me. I have turned to God through this. I have joined three groups at my church, my church softball team, a running group at my church and several other activities. I've been on 3 mission trips. I have joined a couple of cycling groups in my area. I have taken a couple of family vacations and a few weekend trips with my S (minus my W). I have invested a lot of time in my S - our relationship was pretty close before the bomb, but now it's even closer. That's just naming some of the things, not all.
As a result of this, my support group has grown, I've made a lot of new friends and met some amazing people. My relationship with God has flourished.It's helped not only survive this ordeal, it's helped me to thrive. I feel like a new person now. I have the confidence that however this all turns out, I will be OK.
Back on the home front, this has certainly intrigued my W, but as of right now, we're still moving toward a D. We've started the initial settlement negotiations, but it's currently progressing fairly slowly. My W really hasn't made any significant movement back toward me.
So - who knows how this will all turn out?
Since my last update, I've had a few interactions with my W. There has been a lot of turmoil on her side of the family. We have a niece that my W pretty close to get arrested and get involved with drugs. I followed up with my W last week to see how things were going and just to let her know I have her and her family in my prayers. She opened up to me a bit. She said she had almost called me late Tuesday night of last week because she thought she was having a heart attack.
She determined it was likely an anxiety attack. She does not seem to be doing well at all.
That being said, sometimes she's able to put up a pretty good facade when I see her.
Update on the D front: My L asked for paystubs about 4 weeks ago and we still haven't heard anything from her L.
Every once in awhile, my S will offer up little tid bits of what's going on on her side of things. Apparently, OM is still in the picture. I don't know what the status is and I don't ask. She sleeps a lot on the weekends. She sent my S into a panic on Sunday because she wasn't responding to texts. Not only did she sleep late, she took a 4 hour nap.
Meanwhile, I continue to live my life. I've been on a handful of group cycling rides, including a couple at night
downtown. I ran a 5K with my running group at my church. I took my S to the Trunk and Treat at church and had a great time! I was in charge of one of the games. I'm still going to all my Tuesday night group at my church and my every other Saturday group has started back up. I've been dropping in on my Thursday night Men's group after my group rides, though this week I'll probably be dedicated to Men's group - it's getting late in the season for the Thursday night group rides. I also have signed my S up for basketball, and they recruited me to coach. Of course, once a week I still try to smuggle in Chipotle at lunch at school for my S. Keeping busy.
Tonight is Trick or Treat. It may well be my S's last year to Trick or Treat.
My S wanted my W to come down for it tonight. I went along with the invite and simultaneously (my S had her on speaker) invited her to come down. I made a batch of crock pot chili this morning for the event. At the very least, I have dinner covered for my S and me and I've garnered some more experience in cooking for us.
My W did come down for Trick or Treat tonight. It turned out to be interesting. My W and I were alone for awhile, outside of the kids coming by. My S was out with some neighbors. The weather wasn't that great, it was about 40 degrees and kind of drizzling. However, it was interesting because it was the longest period of time my W and I have been together in a long time. She really got a heavy dose of the new JB that's developed over the last 20 months. I maintained a very upbeat and positive attitude - it's pretty much ingrained in me by this point and frankly, comes pretty naturally. My W asked me on more than one occasion if I knew the people I was just being friendly to and the answer was they were just strangers. She made a few remarks about all the friends I have now - she's recognized that. Other than that, it was a lot of small talk between the two of us, nothing heavy at all.
My S was done Trick or Treating about 1 hour in probably due to the weather. That left the three of us passing out candy together. It was kind of weird TBH. It was a little bit reminiscent of when we were still together and we all got along well.
Toward the end, we had the chili I had made this morning. I made some brownies for dessert, too. My W liked the chili and complimented it and enjoyed the brownie, too. I had fun preparing everything this morning, so it was fine with me.
I'm not sure what, if any, effect the evening had on my W. I'm also not sure of the impact it had on me. I'm expecting some sort of a pull back, but then again, I think she's even growing weary of the pull backs.
I'm willing just to let it ride and see where it goes. I don't have any really big expectations. TBH, I'm not even sure what I want at this point. I'm really enjoying my new life I've gotten for myself and I don't want anything to drag me down.
Enough rambling for now.
jb - good to hear from you.
Its interesting to hear our observations about your W. Compare that to your new life. What a difference.
I noticed some of those things in my W when we were apart. I sometimes felt a "calling" to intervene, but was advised (wisely so!) to leave her alone and let her figure it out on her own.
I loved her and wanted to help but that would have driven her away even more.
It's quite a dilemma. The important thing is to "keep on keeping on" and taking care of yourself and your S.
Thanks as always for stopping in NTX.
I loved her and wanted to help but that would have driven her away even more.
I know EXACTLY what you're saying here.
Its interesting to hear our observations about your W. Compare that to your new life. What a difference.
I think one of my biggest fears has become one of going back to the way it was if we were to ever R. TBH, I think she finds the new life attractive, but she would have to be on board with it. When I get anxious about the prospect of losing the momentum on the new life, I remind myself that, as far as I know, she still wants a D. In a way, that calms me down. It's not that I want a D, but I defintely don't want to go back to the old life.
Hey JB! Nice to hear from you. One thing that you said in your most recent update was that you are not sure what you even want at this point.
Is that something that you are trying to figure out?
BTW, thanks for you support over on my piecing thread!
Thanks for stopping by Denver!
One thing that you said in your most recent update was that you are not sure what you even want at this point.
Is that something that you are trying to figure out?
Well, I think it's more accurate to say I know what I want, but I'm not sure my W would be able to get with the program if she even showed an inkling of wanting to come back - which she hasn't really shown me, BTW. I know what I want out of a M and if my W would want to come back and would be on board with what I want out of M, I'm all for it. However, I am absolutely not willing to sacrifice the new and improved JB or the new life, just to have her come back and things regress to the old life. Today, her coming back isn't a realistic concern anyway - I think it's just me trying to look at all angles of what could happen.
BTW, thanks for you support over on my piecing thread!
It's a privilege.
Thanks for stopping by Denver!
One thing that you said in your most recent update was that you are not sure what you even want at this point.
Is that something that you are trying to figure out?
Well, I think it's more accurate to say I know what I want, but I'm not sure my W would be able to get with the program if she even showed an inkling of wanting to come back - which she hasn't really shown me, BTW. I know what I want out of a M and if my W would want to come back and would be on board with what I want out of M, I'm all for it. However, I am absolutely not willing to sacrifice the new and improved JB or the new life, just to have her come back and things regress to the old life. Today, her coming back isn't a realistic concern anyway - I think it's just me trying to look at all angles of what could happen.
BTW, thanks for you support over on my piecing thread!
It's a privilege.
THere needs to be a 'like' button here.
Well, anytime my W and I have been together and we've had a somewhat decent interaction, there is almost always a pull back. It looks like my W had at least one more in her. She texted me early on Saturday evening saying we hadn't talked about the dissolution for some time now, and that she thought when I hired a L, that things would start moving along. She said she has contacted her L and that allegedly my L is not responding.
My understanding was we have been waiting on her for 6+ weeks.
I let her know what I've heard from my L. I just left it with her I would call my L today.
I also found out from my S that the OM and his S spent the entire weekend over my W's house.
I'm just angry for my S.
TBH, though, knowing that makes it a lot easier to be sure to call my L today.
It also kind of shines some light on why she chose to do the following early on a Saturday evening.
On top of all that, my S really doesn't like OM nor does he like his S. He calls them idiots while chuckle inside and don't say anything.
There WAS some good stuff mixed in this weekend. 50 mile group bike ride on Saturday morning. There was my community group with my church on Saturday night. I met with the prayer warriors at church on Sunday, went to service, and then went to the Student Ministries service.
Where does this leave me? Well, after that strong push back, TBH it pushes me away. I am seeing some nice possibilities in a potential relationship with someone else. I am seeing a huge contrast between the life she's living and the life I'm living at this point. She has verbalized to me, too, her observations some of those positive benefits of the life I'm living. She's said I seem happier, and she's remarked several times on how many friends I have now. Like I've seen it said here before, if she wants to come back or work on the M, she's going to make it abundantly clear - it won't be subtle.
Oh well, enough babbling for now.
Hi JB,
Found your new thread, looks like you called it, a slight pullback, but you are still hanging in there. How is the biking going in this weather?
Hey gunny, thanks for stopping in. Still been biking. Did a 50 miler over the weekend and a 34 miler last night. I finally broke down and bought some foot covers to keep my feet warm. I'm having to burn the headlights nowadays.
hey jb,
we are getting hammered here, 6 inches of snow on top of sagging power lines = no power again. with the time change and floods, snow, downed trees, etc, have had to get the running in on roads, rather than the canal towpath I usually frequent. Oh well, the show does go on, keep on leaning forward!
Hang in there, gunny! I'm praying for y'all there in Jersey and the East Coast.
I've been kind of up and down this week a little bit.
I took the day off on Tuesday because my S was off of school. I ended up taking my S to a movie. I had a good time as usual with my S.
My W had him on Tuesday night and I went to dinner with 3 women from my Tuesday night church group. Got home and biked 34 miles under the cover of darkness.
I connected with my L yesterday. She asked me if I wanted her to follow up again with my W's L or go ahead and file for D (
Easy there chief!!
) Supposedly my W's L had sent over the paystub information upon the first request in September. My L connected with my my W's L and and there were emails flying this morning. So it looks like we're moving forward with the D process again. Fun, fun, fun!
Don't let your lawyer rush you into doing anything. We attorneys tend to do that when the billable hours slow down.
Sending good thoughts your way.
Hey jb -
If you think its heading for D, maybe you should consider filing. I don't know if my W's attorney was good, or if it's because my W is a woman, or if it was because she was the one that filed, but she clearly had an advantage with the courts and was in the driver's seat. They ran the show and I spent 9 months jumping through hoops and being ordered to do this and that.
It also may demonstrate to her that you are tired of the situation she's put you in and it may wake her up.
You have the most patience I have seen anyone have ever. Kudos to you, you've clearly grown and are a better man than most.
Don't let your lawyer rush you into doing anything. We attorneys tend to do that when the billable hours slow down.
Sending good thoughts your way.
Thanks Denver! Nah, she works for me. I backed her down and stated my position. I'm holding my ground. I'm just doing what I have to do, and that's where it stops.
Hey NTX -
I think you were posting at the same time I was so I missed your post earlier.
We are currently working on a dissolution agreement. If my W is consistent about anything, she will say she wants a D. That being said, her actions are not always consistently indicating that. Frankly, I attribute some of that to disorganization and laziness on her part. She had grown accustomed to me doing a lot. If we can reach an agreement this way, and I really think we can if it comes to it, I'd rather go the dissolution route. However, if we are definitely heading toward a full blown divorce, I'll do what I have to do to protect myself and my S, full guns a-blazin'.
Hey jb - long time no hear, I hope you are doing well.
Hey NTX, thanks for checking in on me! Wow, I didn't realize it had been so long since I've last updated!
I am still hanging in there, and I do owe y'all a big update.
I have been extremely swamped with work and GAL'ing. I have recently started a couple new GAL'ing activities. I am going to be leading a group of 5th and 6th graders during service at my church and I'm also starting to coach my S's basketball team.
It was good to hear from you but it's already been nine days since you admitted you owed us an update.
Anyway, I hope all is well with you and that you and your son have a great holiday season.
I'm putting aside my work schedule to give y'all an update. It looks like a have a developing situation on my hands, and I'll save that for the next post.
Over the last month or so, I've still been GAL'ing strong of course. I been able to do several cycling group rides. It's getting pretty cold here, but we've still been able to squeeze in a few rides. Still a very big part of all my church groups. In fact, I am planning hosting my Men's group tonight at my house and I've spearheaded a impromptu Bengals party afterward. I've started coaching my S's basketball team. This weekend I make my debut leading the fifth and sixth graders in the group discussion at church during their service. The GAL'ing has been going pretty well.
I even suffered my first illness in 23 months after Thanksgiving. It was just a mild cold, so it turned out to be no big deal, it just hampered the GAL'ing for about a week.
On the D front, I have been going back and forth with my L over the last month or so, going over the particulars of the agreement. Once we received all the paystub information, the feedback I got from my L is they were being very reasonable about things. However, admittedly, I have kind of drug my feet a bit. I've been moving the ball forward, but at a slow pace. My L will email me some responses. I'll wait a few days and respond with a long list of questions.
This Monday, I found out from my L I had run out the string. I had exceeded the allotted hours for a flat fee dissolution. My L was going to send me a statement for my review. It sux, but I have to deal with it, right?
During this time, about a week and half ago, I had one of the most "interesting" interactions I've had with W in a long, long time. She dropped off my S on a Sunday night. She came to the door with my S. She said my S wanted to show her the Christmas tree. I told her it was fine, as long as she could overlook the laundry I was folding. When she came in, she said a mutual friend of ours had said there were several good pictures of our S on my FB page, but she couldn't find them. I guess she didn't understand that she couldn't see them because she unfriended me last year.
I just kept silent about it. Then, she notices the Bengals game is on TV. She asked if she could stay and watch it. The three of us sat on the couch and watched the last 4 minutes of the Bengals game together.
Then, she started asking about dinner, and ultimately invited herself to come along for going out to dinner with us.
I was also starting to see some changes in her. Particularly that she was turning back to her faith. Dangit! I thought I was just about DONE. And then this. This was making her more attractive to me.
OK. now here's the part I think warranted a separate post.
Remember how I said I was feeling DONE, but then again I wasn't becoming a little more unsure of it?
Here's our text exchange from yesterday:
W: Hey...i just talked to my atty and he said they r waiting for ur atty to respond...said its been a month. Do u know anything or any reason this is being delayed?
JB: Actually my atty and I have been emailing over the last couple of weeks, so we're working through it as we speak. Should see something soon.
W: Is there something going on that we need to talk about...i dont understand
JB: Do you mean with the agreement, emotionally, or either/or? I can give you a call on the way home if you like.
W: Call me please on ur way home.
So I called her on my way home.
I explained I was moving the process forward, although I've been very busy at work. However, I am moving forward, unless you throw up a big red stop sign. She asked me if I'd seen that stop sign. I turned it around to that it sounds like I should be asking her that question.
SO here comes the bomb.
The conversation then turned to how God's really been working on her lately. She's feeling like maybe she's hearing we should get back together, but she's really confused about it. She said she was a total mess. I just let her talk and I listened. She said she's never thought that way during this whole journey and it's very confusing to her.
At one point, she asked if I would even consider reconciliation. I told her I would be open to giving it a shot, if she's willing to put some work into it.
We both agreed it be a slow process and we should start by perhaps just getting together a couple of times as a family and doing something light and fun. We should get together and talk a couple more times soon. We want to discuss if reconciliation is even possible. If nothing else, we've agreed that having this conversation would at the very least give us some closure and some peace with the whole situation. If we were to reconcile, we mutually agreed it would be more like starting over and rebuilding instead of patching up what we had before.
The way we left was both of us are going to contact our Ls and we are going to say we're putting the D on hold until the beginning of the new year. At that point, we'll re-evaluate and see what we want to do.
:-) :-) :-) :-) :-)
Am so happy for you.
(((((((( ))))))))
woa good for you. scare I imagine JB. But good news none the less. Time for you to hit the piecing threads. I have read that it is a very difficult process but I'm praying for you and your family budd. Learn as much as possible. I hope 25 will chime in and give you some info on retroaville especially if W has gone back to her faith. Keep us posted
Wow jb - that's incredible. I am very happy for you and your family.
It sounds very similar to my sitch. I was DONE and wanted to wrap up the D.
It's almost like God wants us to hit rock bottom before letting up put the pieces back together.
Congrats and happy holidays my friend. Keep on keepin' on!
:-) :-) :-) :-) :-)
Am so happy for you.
(((((((( ))))))))
Thanks, busting!
I think things are potentially turning in the right direction, but we're far from out of the woods. This is first time I even heard the hint of the word reconciliation in the 22 months of my sitch.
woa good for you. scare I imagine JB. But good news none the less. Time for you to hit the piecing threads. I have read that it is a very difficult process but I'm praying for you and your family budd. Learn as much as possible. I hope 25 will chime in and give you some info on retroaville especially if W has gone back to her faith. Keep us posted
Thanks Rick!
Yes, it is very scary. I didn't sleep well last night. I was a little more anxious than I've been today in awhile.
Nope - not time to hit the piecing thread yet. Not ready. I think our ensuing discussions will determine on whether I head for the piecing thread or something like Surviving the big D thread. The good news that my W would even consider it an option. I think we need to talk through it, quite frankly, to see if it's even a viable option for me.
I appreciate the prayers, buddy.
I think Retrouvaille would be a good thing if I could get my W's buy-in and if we reach that point. I'm open to it.
Wow jb - that's incredible. I am very happy for you and your family.
It sounds very similar to my sitch. I was DONE and wanted to wrap up the D.
It's almost like God wants us to hit rock bottom before letting up put the pieces back together.
Congrats and happy holidays my friend. Keep on keepin' on!
Thanks NTX!
I think sometimes we have to hit rock bottom before we're receptive to what God has to say.
TBH I was asking God if there was any reason I shouldn't be DONE, and I kept getting the answer to stay the course.
Happy holidays to you as well, my friend.
I wish you and your family all of the best.
Happy holidays :-)
I wish you and your family all of the best.
Happy holidays :-)
Happy Holidays to you and yours as well, busting.
JB, your W is lucky to have you! your faith and your willingness to consider R is truly inspiring.. all the best to you and your family!
JB, your W is lucky to have you! your faith and your willingness to consider R is truly inspiring.. all the best to you and your family!
Thanks, NG!
Good to hear from you, jb. Yes, at first blush it sounds like there should be a move to piecing, yet I don't think your W said she wanted to R. She simply said she wanted to review and see if that might be something to consider. There's a huge difference, there.
I know want you WANT. Yet I know you have done an awesome job living your own life and had been prepared to carry on with what WAS the status quo.
Take things really, really slow, my friend. Continue to be the new, best you. I have no doubt that you could eventually step into piecing as a better man and sharing partner.
You will need to take time to allow her to continue to step towards you, until such a time that she wants to actively work on R. Otherwise, this is just a false start which will simply delay the D direction the two of you were on, up until now.
Wishing you the best in this, and a very, Merry Christmas to you and yours.
JB,
I'm not familiar with your sitch so looks like I have some reading to do
I wanted to just chime in that I'm happy for you with the development of your sitch. Yes take it slow my friend. It seems like true space is when couple actually separate and sort through their feelings.
Keep us posted. Nice to see another cyclist in here.
Newman
It took me a bit to consider how I wanted to say this, as well.
Take a look at how T^2 is operating, in his threads in MLC.
He neither makes himself inaccessible, nor does he pursue.
He stands like a rock in what ever comes.
I think that might be a really good position for you to take, at this time.
Good to hear from you, jb. Yes, at first blush it sounds like there should be a move to piecing, yet I don't think your W said she wanted to R. She simply said she wanted to review and see if that might be something to consider. There's a huge difference, there.
It's great to hear from you KD!!
Bingo! You have hit it right on the head. Or at least that's the way I see it, too. One of the big things I have to factor in, too, is concentrating on what I really want. I have built and entirely new life for myself. TBH, I would love to share it with someone. I have to figure out if my W is able and willing to get with the program, i.e. if it's similar to what she wants her life to look like, too.
Take things really, really slow, my friend. Continue to be the new, best you. I have no doubt that you could eventually step into piecing as a better man and sharing partner.
Yes, that is the plan.
You will need to take time to allow her to continue to step towards you, until such a time that she wants to actively work on R. Otherwise, this is just a false start which will simply delay the D direction the two of you were on, up until now.
Agreed. The worst thing I think I could possibly do to try to move things along faster. I believe that would inevitably backfire. It would feel like pressure to her. From her perspective, she would see a controlling JB that she wanted to get away from in the first place.
Wishing you the best in this, and a very, Merry Christmas to you and yours.
Thanks, KD! A Merry Christmas to you and yours as well!!
Take a look at how T^2 is operating, in his threads in MLC.
I'll have to check it out.
He neither makes himself inaccessible, nor does he pursue.
He stands like a rock in what ever comes.
I think that might be a really good position for you to take, at this time.
I also agree with this, KD. I think this sounds like an excellent plan.
Thanks for stopping in, Newman!
I'm not familiar with your sitch so looks like I have some reading to do
Yes, I guess that would be a lot of reading
I wanted to just chime in that I'm happy for you with the development of your sitch. Yes take it slow my friend. It seems like true space is when couple actually separate and sort through their feelings.
Thanks, Newman!
Keep us posted. Nice to see another cyclist in here.
Will do. S
So, you're a cyclist also then?
Hopefully there's some groups you can ride with in your area. That's been nice component of my GAL'ing activities during my sitch.
As a quick update. I think we're doing a pretty good job of taking it slow thus far. So far, so good.
The only real thing I've done is email my L and say we're putting things on hold until the beginning of the year, at which point we'll re-evaluate. She replied back and said, "Sounds good JB, I will continue to pray for peace for your family."
I talk to my W for about 2 minutes last night, and it was all business. It was all about my S.
We have not yet set up a time for us to get together and talk. I think I'll know when the time is right. I certainly don't want to apply any pressure.
HEY JB,
Glad to see the positive development. In this season of prayers I will say a prayer for you. Your go slow philosophy seems like the right approach to me, trust your gut, it has gotten you this far. Merry Christmas!
Hi JB,
Just wanna say thanks for checking out my sitch. I left you a long response-sorry about that
I read a couple of your threads, I feel exhausted on your GALs lol...but it's a good plan. You really mapped it out to weather the storm in your sitch.
My W loves Chipotle, maybe I will surprise her Friday and buy that for dinner.
Hope to hear from you soon.
Newman
Hey JB how did the holidays go, can you give an update?
HEY JB,
Glad to see the positive development. In this season of prayers I will say a prayer for you. Your go slow philosophy seems like the right approach to me, trust your gut, it has gotten you this far. Merry Christmas!
Gunny, always good to hear from you my friend. I hope you had a Merry Christmas and Happy New Year! And thanks for the prayers and encouragement!
Just wanna say thanks for checking out my sitch. I left you a long response-sorry about that
No worries at all, Newman. I am very sorry I didn't get the chance to reply back.
I read a couple of your threads, I feel exhausted on your GALs lol...but it's a good plan. You really mapped it out to weather the storm in your sitch.
Sounds like you've been doing some reading
Thanks for reading through those.
Hope you are doing well.
Hey JB how did the holidays go, can you give an update?
OLW, thanks for checking in on me! Update coming right up.
I'm long overdue for an update. Of course, I have continued to GAL - I really haven't let up on the gas, so to speak.
I'll concentrate on updates on my sitch.
On the Friday before Christmas, I had arranged to meet up with my W to talk. I had originally proposed we continue our conversation from the previous week. I showed up with a different game plan. We just small-talked, listened to each other, and enjoyed each others' company. We had a nice time. It was kind of like a first date or more appropriately like getting together with an old friend. When we got up to leave, my W said something about us not talking about anything we had planned on talking about. I just said I thought about it and it wasn't time yet. She agreed and actually seemed very relieved.
Fast forward to Christmas day. I had my W over for Christmas morning for my S to open his gifts. I upheld our tradition of having cinnamon rolls while we're opening gifts. Pretty much my S was the only one to open gifts. It was not nearly as awkward as last year. She offered to watch the dog while I traveled to be with my family. I stopped by her parents' house to pick up the dog on the way home. I actually ended up staying for over an hour, just talking with her parents and family.
The day after Christmas, it was time for my S to go over to her place. She asked me to meet her because the roads were bad due to snow. I suggested meeting for dinner. The three of us had a nice dinner together.
There was really not much time spent together until this previous Sunday. We ended up meeting for dinner and once again had a nice dinner together.
Up to this point, we really hadn't had any significant discussions regarding the M or the D. Taking things very slowly.
Which leads to the more recent update...:O
Today I'm at work minding my own business and get an email from my L. She had received a fax from my W's L asking about the status of things. Evidently, my W had not put her L on hold.
I ended up calling my W asking her how I should respond to my L. We talked for a bit. My W had given us credit for getting together a couple of times and having a decent time together. However, she mentioned she really wasn't keen on the "on hold" concept. She also mentioned she did see how we could ever find our way back to each other. She was also asking my opinion.
I think I realized at this point the time was right for:
We have not yet set up a time for us to get together and talk. I think I'll know when the time is right. I certainly don't want to apply any pressure.
I mentioned I wasn't sure either way. I agreed with her that the limbo is very tiring and I don't want to be just in limbo not making progress one way or the other. I did make a brief mention of Retrouvaille and invited her to check it out, because in my opinion it may help us figure which direction we needed to go with things.
She really seems to be leaning back toward a D. She did agree to get together and have a conversation about things. At least me, I'd like to get a good picture of where she is emotionally. I also feel the need to air it out a bit on where I am. Frankly, I also want to talk about what I want out of a M, what she wants, and to see if there's even a match. We are planning on meeting up after work on Thursday. She was amenable to meeting up, although she didn't entirely see it as necessary. For me, I don't see how there's much to lose.
OK, enough babbling for now.
Hello JB! I hope all is well. How did it go last night?
Hi NTX, thanks as always for checking on me!
Well, I can't necessarily say I got the outcome I wanted from our conversation. I did get a good picture of where my W is emotionally, however.
For most of the conversation, I just listened and validated.
I led off with an executive summary of what I've been doing with my life and what I want in a relationship.
She mentioned all these things I've been doing to GAL ticked her off. She said I was doing all of these things she wished we had done together as a couple. I simply told her I wasn't doing them to tick her off, but I had to make my life count and make it worthwhile.
The conversation turned to where my W is at emotionally. My W is holding on tight to the past and is unable to let go of some mistakes I've made several years ago. Her main complaint against me is that I was controlling. She is perceiving any delay on the D on my part as being "controlling", kind of like my final gasp.
I know I'd made mistakes in the past but I'm not sure I was fully aware of that affected her. Most of my mistakes were along the lines of neglect. Unfortunately, I think the mistakes piled up to the point where she just checked out. The change process in me really got underway about 6 years ago, then accelerated when she left. I think just because my W was checked out at that point, the majority of the changes went unnoticed, especially the deep underlying changes. However, the mistakes still piled up. Wow, that hit me like a ton of bricks. Yeah, I've heard it before, but wow, the magnitude of whole debacle really just struck me.
I think I needed to hear all of that. I wish we had this kind of conversation years ago. However, I don't think I would've been in the position to listen like I did several years ago. I felt horrible the day after, and I'm thinking that may be because I really listened.
As we parted company, I told her I thought we needed to have a another conversation and I also told her I thought I needed to get in touch with my L to tell her we're resuming the process. She agreed to get together this Wednesday and is still on board as of today. I am planning on getting in touch with my L tomorrow - I think it's something I need to do to show her something different anyway.
Out of curiosity jb, did you appologize (to validate) for your part of being distant or "neglectful"? I say that simply because you appear to have better heard and understood her position and perhaps she might have been appreciative of the appology.
I suspect that if my W and I ever had that discussion, the results would be the same. That my W might share how much my neglect hurt her. In the same token, your W is still pointing at you for her hurts (which of course are valid), but unwilling to speak of any realizations of how she may have contributed.
Until she can speak of her stuff, she is still harbouring anger and resentment (as she alluded to when mentioning she was upset with your GAL) and may not look internally for her own growth.
That said, I still think that while it is ok to move towards the D, there is still no need to rush things. Not to hold off the inevitable, rather keep in mind that for both your interests as well as for S, things need to be thought out during the process so no mistakes are made.
As always, thanks for stopping in, KD. You're quite the keen observer.
Out of curiosity jb, did you appologize (to validate) for your part of being distant or "neglectful"? I say that simply because you appear to have better heard and understood her position and perhaps she might have been appreciative of the appology.
I did..but it wasn't to the degree I feel I needed to. I am hoping to get the chance to own those mistakes and apologize for them. As long as she holds to those, she will remain stuck. And quite frankly, I want to be free of that burden.
In the same token, your W is still pointing at you for her hurts (which of course are valid), but unwilling to speak of any realizations of how she may have contributed.
Until she can speak of her stuff, she is still harbouring anger and resentment (as she alluded to when mentioning she was upset with your GAL) and may not look internally for her own growth.
Yes, I would say you're absolutely correct. In addition, she also doesn't want that feedback from me at this time. If she invites me there, I'll go there. I crossed that line last Thursday night, and she just got ticked at me, because from her perception, it was about how I got hurt and once again, was not about her feelings.
That said, I still think that while it is ok to move towards the D, there is still no need to rush things. Not to hold off the inevitable, rather keep in mind that for both your interests as well as for S, things need to be thought out during the process so no mistakes are made.
You known me long enough, KD. Do I do anything fast?
It's a fine line to walk, though. I think it's wise not rush and make mistakes but my W is also seeing any perceived dragging of my feet as a control effort, and just more of the same.
I have a little bit of an update.
I have been talking with banks and mortgage brokers this week to figure out if I can keep my house and still be able to afford it with everything considered.
I have also contacted my L and indicated that unfortunately, we are moving forward.
To my surprise, I asked my W on Monday if she would be willing to meet up tonight, and she agreed to do it. So I am confirmed to meet up with her. My only game plan is to go in there, reflect back to her what I heard last week, and apologize for what I need to apologize for. I think she really needs the floor again, and if she wants, I will let her have the floor, and I will just listen.
Sounds right, jb. Slow and steady, forward progress. Eyes and ears open, feedback with validation.
No matter what the future brings, you will be fine.
Hey JB,
What your w said about you still wanting to control the sitch is exactly what my ex said one night when we were having a heart to heart. She was crying and I sat down to comfort her, she had been drinking and said that the magnitude of what was happening was finally hitting her. Up to that time we had agreed that I would file here in Nj(even though I didnt want the divorce), because she was moving to ohio and would have to come back here to appear in court. I was having second thoughts and told her that since she wanted the divorce, she should file, not me, since I didnt want to do something I didnt believe in. She looked at me and said how surprised she was by me saying that, that we had an agreement and that I should follow through. She said that by not filing I was trying to control the sitch, which was one of her main reasons for wanting the d. Since I believe always keeping your word is sacrosanct, I told her that I would follow through even though I didnt want the d.
Should I have said the heck with keeping my word and reneged on my agreement to file? Still havent come to a conclusion on that, my therapist and all friends and family at the time said that I should have let her feel the pain of her actions., a year and a half later, not sure, I certainly was in a less stable emotional state then than I am now.
I guess my point is that I was also told that I had been neglectful of my sp during the marriage, with much justification. She was right when she said I was attempting to control the sitch by slowing down the process, even in my emotional fog i could grasp that essential point. It was then that I realized that she had to have the d, and it was pointless of me to try to hinder the process. Looking back now, I think it was the right decision, since we have remained amicable, are just now slowly starting to communicate every 4 weeks or so on a very basic basis, usually about the welfare of our dog, which she has custody of.
The other thing i wanted to comment on was your comment about moving the d along to show her you are doing something positive. All well and good, but if you are going to move the process along, do it for you, not just to show her you are doing something positive, because then you make gal look like something you are doing for her, when in reality, you are doing it for you. Hopefully I expalined that correctly. If you do it for her, then you havent quite detached to the degree that you might need to show her that you are ready to move on if need be, dont want to, but can if push comes to shove. If she thinks you are controlling, any hindrance of the process is going to be perceived by her as just the same old same old.
Just my two cents, as always buddy, I hope for the best.
Sounds right, jb. Slow and steady, forward progress. Eyes and ears open, feedback with validation.
No matter what the future brings, you will be fine.
Thanks KD!
Thanks for stopping in, gunny! It's always great to hear from you!
We have been negotiating the agreement and the ball's currently in my court. If I don't do anything at all with it, I am just hindering the process at this point.
And this:
If she thinks you are controlling, any hindrance of the process is going to be perceived by her as just the same old same old.
explains the current dynamic pretty well.
We had agreed to to put things on hold back in December, but she had indicated to me that she didn't want to be on hold anymore. Therefore, I am just taking the next step in an effort not to hinder the process. I am doing absolutely nothing to accelerate the process or try to just "get it over with".
JB any updates, hope all is well.
Just a quick update. I'll provide some more details later when I can.
My W and I did get together to talk the following week after we go together to talk the first time. I left the conversation a little discouraged, and we didn't set anything else up. I felt like about 3/4 of our conversation was necessary. I did thank her for getting together with me to talk and paid for her meal. Oddly enough, I was feeling a little more encouraged in the days after our talk. The thing that's agonizing about it is that were having the kind of hard, difficult conversations we should have been having when we were still together. Also, I am very confident when she goes into the past, that I'm not the same man at all I used to be. TBH, it's very hard for me hear about my mistakes of the past from the person I hurt, or neglected. I wish for a whole bucket of mulligans. I do need to keep in mind that I only made some of the mistakes, but I do have to own my own mistakes.
Last week turned out to be an interesting week. My W got fired from her job on Monday. She texted me to let me know. I texted her back that I was sorry to hear it and asked if she was OK. I ended up just following up Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday of that week.
Thursday was also interesting. My W was on her way to pick up my S, and called me while I was at work. She followed up with a text. She was stranded on the side of the Interstate. She had run out of gas. Since it was cold out and I really didn't want her walking along the freeway, I left work, picked her up, went home and got a gas can, and got her back on the road. It was something I just felt I needed to do. I really didn't have an ulterior motive.
I had intended to get back to her on the D paperwork and what I had learned about refinancing my house. Because of the chaos of last week, I didn't do it. I am mentally planning on doing it this week.
Hey JB can you give us an update on how things are progressing.
Hey JB can you give us an update on how things are progressing.
Thanks for checking in on me OLW.
Another quick update. Last week I did get in touch with my W. I suggested we get together and discuss some of the details of the D and try to handle at least some of the negotiations among ourselves. We would then get the answer back to the Ls and have them finish things up. She agreed to meet up to discuss the agreement. We are set to meet up in about an hour and a half.
In my notes I have stashed a brochure to a "Weekend to Remember" marriage conference. If the opportunity presents itself, I'll give her the brochure and she can just get back to me if she wants to pursue it. I'd give it about a 10% chance tops. She may just throw it away. However - if she doesn't like it, what's she going to do? D me?
I've had more time to mull over our previous conversations. My understanding of where she is with things is becoming clearer and clearer.It's become very clear to me if there were to any sort of reconciliation, it would definitely be rebuilding this thing from the ground up.
I'll give her the brochure and she can just get back to me if she wants to pursue it. I'd give it about a 10% chance tops. She may just throw it away. However - if she doesn't like it, what's she going to do? D me?
Exactly. At this point, really. What do you have to lose. Or rather, no harm to something that is likely damaged beyond repair, as you suggest.
We all knew you had the stamina, I am pretty impressed I lasted as long as I have, and you are edging me out...
A couple months ago I met a lovely little thing and this past month, we've started to "hang out" more and more.
I would not have gone that route until I was completely and utterly done. There is nothing left to rebuild or build from new and my W was / is not someone I would want to be with. She is the woman I married and I would not change the past. Still, I would not marry her twice.
I have no idea where this new R is going. What I DO know is, we are both cautious and open about how we feel about each other and that we will simply enjoy what ever time we are together.
Your life certainly won't be over once you D. I know you know that. It certainly can be different... better... no matter what.
Hello everyone! Thanks for checking on me OLW and NTX!!
I was in Belize GAL'ing on a mission trip. I had a big push at work to get a lot done before I left and now I'm on the other side trying to catch up.
I will post an update when I'm able.
Hey jb, good to hear from you. I forgot about the mission trip. I was just getting a little worried about you, the last time you posted it sounded like you were getting closer to something happening.
Praying for you and your family.
I also forgot about the mission trip.....Anxiously waiting for an update when you get a chance.Hope all is well.
I've been pretty delinquent on updates, so here goes. I will try to keep it at an executive summary level. NTX & OLW - I appreciate you guys following up.
My W and I did get together now about a month ago to discuss the terms of our agreement. As to be expected, there was more opportunity to talk. I started off by asking her how she was doing. She gave the standard answer until I asked her again. Not too surprising, but her life hasn't been going particularly well. At that time, she was starting get knocks on the door to get her out of her apartment. She had been sleeping excessively, obviously very depressed.
I also gave her a brochure during our conversation for a Weekend to Remember marriage conference. She actually looked through it to my surprise. She did say she was surprised I would even consider something like this. I just told her the story behind it, I would look at it as potentially a "hail Mary" or something that would help us to be sure. She said it felt like pressure. I just told her I was not intending on applying any pressure and she can do whatever she wishes with the brochure. From my perspective, I was just sending a message that it would be something I would be willing to try. Her reaction exceeded my expectations. I went in thinking there was a 10% chance she would consider it and left thinking it was more like 20%. The local conference have come and gone and she hasn't mentioned anything about it and neither have I.
During our conversation, I did tell her our two previous conversations were very hard, but in my opinion, very necessary. I admitted to feeling both encouraged and discouraged by those conversations. I was encouraged because we actually talking about some very deep stuff. I wished we had those conversations years ago. They were discouraging because frankly, it's hard to hear that stuff about yourself and how it affected someone else. Also, I've realized she checked out of the M years ago.
Also during our conversation, I did tell her I would be starting over with just about anybody. She has the advantage that she's the only woman who can love my S the way he deserves to be loved. She got emotional about that one. Not that it was the intent - it was just the truth - just laying it out on the table. During that part of the conversation, she also mentioned the OM was big mistake on her part.
After the first part of the conversation, we did cover the details of the D agreement. We already have a template to work from, but since we're talking, we're trying to work the details among ourselves, and the bring the Ls back in. We're pretty close. There were a couple of items she needed to get back to me on.
BTW - I had an amazing mission trip to Belize!! Thanks for asking.
Things as a whole are going well from my side of the fence. I'll be chaperoning a 5th and 6th grader conference (Friday night overnight) Still GAL'ing strong. Sometimes probably too much. I've even managed to make more new friends along the way. One thing I'm not doing for sure is sitting at home sulking in misery.
My W's side of the fence appears to be a different story. Since our last conversation, she has been evicted from her apartment. She still doesn't have a job. She's been sick with a nasty cold for about 3 weeks. She recently moved in with her parents.
She also told me last week (our niece was living with her) that about a month ago our niece had met a guy at a bar. Our niece brought this guy home to live with her. TBH, I was pretty ticked
about her inability to lay down a healthy boundary because my S is with my W about half the time. Turns out this guy had a bit of a jaded past. Not cool.
You do reap what you sow, and that turned out to be the case with my W. When my W moved out of her apartment, there was a lot of conflict because our niece and her boyfriend had to move out, too. They had nowhere to go. Hopefully my W learned an important lesson.
That situation just magnified that my life and my W's life are going completely opposite directions. It's really brought the thoughts to the forefront of what I want out my life and my M. From my perspective, I want to be in a Christ centered M with both parties committed to working on the relationship. I want to share this new life I've built with someone. As it stands right now, I'm not sure my W is a good fit for that.
It had been since our last get-together back on 2/5 that I was waiting on my W to get back to me on a couple open items regarding the D agreement. Obviously, she's been preoccupied with a few things over this last month. However, I wasn't forcing the issue.
Last night she finally followed up and asked what the open items were. She agreed to one of the open items, the other one still needs to be discussed. Unfortunately, it triggered a little anxiety in me. Just when I think I don't care or I'm feeling pretty ambivalent, any tangible movement will trigger some sort of feeling- hope or anxiety. The good news is the anxiety wore off after about 2 hours. I'm back to waiting for the next trigger event now.
You're doing great of course, jb. I'm glad you answered the unspoken question of how your mission trip went. lol. Glad it went well... always such a blessing to be part of such things.
Remember that just like yours, your W's path is neither good nor bad, it is simply her path and the results are of her choosing, even if it is not something you would choose. You never know where her... or your path, may lead.
Keep on keeping on, my friend.
Thanks as always for stopping by, KD!
Remember that just like yours, your W's path is neither good nor bad, it is simply her path and the results are of her choosing, even if it is not something you would choose. You never know where her... or your path, may lead.
I agree with you, KD, but only to a point. When my W's path takes her to a place that negatively impacts my S, it's bad. When she makes choices with negative consequences, it's bad - that is, unless she learns something from the bad choices.
Thanks as always, KD.
True enough, jb. I would go out on a limb and say that at this moment, any path your W chose would have negative consequences, because her path is self focused rather than family focused.
jb - good to hear from you. Its amazing how different your path is from hers. She's clearly in a downward spiral and you're on a upward path. It's ironic that she chose this situation and you are gaining the most from it.
True enough, jb. I would go out on a limb and say that at this moment, any path your W chose would have negative consequences, because her path is self focused rather than family focused.
Yes, KD, that would be the way I would hedge my wager.
jb - good to hear from you. Its amazing how different your path is from hers. She's clearly in a downward spiral and you're on a upward path. It's ironic that she chose this situation and you are gaining the most from it.
Thanks as always for checking in on me NTX. Yes, I guess you could say she's dealt the lemons and I've done my best to try to make lemonade out of them.
Thus far, it's been a reasonably quiet week in my situation and as far as I'm concerned, I hope it stays that way.
I had a great time last weekend being a chaperone for a youth conference I took my S to. Of course I got lots of rest
As I've been able to do every week of school, I took my S some Chipotle at school again today and hung out with my 6th grader friends, teachers and lunchroom aides.
I still continue to GAL, sometimes almost too much. My week's been fairly typical. I had a Relationships group on Tuesday night, Men's group tonight. Still get my exercise in. 17 mile ride on Tuesday night, 3 mile run this morning, and I'm shooting for a 34 mile ride tomorrow night. Then it's on to see the Dead Sea Scrolls on Saturday and I have a small church group meeting on Saturday night. Sunday morning I am teaching the fifth and sixth graders at church for the first service and I have greeting duty for the second service. Sunday afternoon, I may be hosting a small birthday party for my S.
Also, it's my W's weekend with my S but he really wants to go to church with me on Sunday morning. So I am going to drive 1.5 hours or so before church to make sure he's able to get there. As a bonus, I will have him on Sunday afternoon.
Yep, story of my new life I've created over the last couple of years.
Hey JB just checking in. Not fully updated in your sitch but read your last post. You are still the GALing strong--thats great! I feel exhausted reading all you do
This morning I took my bike for a 14 mile ride before work and I thought about your bike rides. Yeah I'm training for a bike tour end of April so gotta keep up with you.
Keep us motivated JB!
Newman
JB:
You are an inspiration! Still have ice and snow here, but looking forward to getting the bike out in a couple of weeks. It is the best GAL mechanism I can think of!
Keep on keeping on!
The quiet had to come to an end at some point, and there's thunder in the distance so to speak.
We met to have our taxes done last night. All was well until we found out we owe a substantial sum of money. If you're playing along, you may recall my W was fired from her job in January and is living with her parents. Well, this was just another blow to her. In the words of 2tp's thread while ago (which I loved), how many licks does it take?
My W was in tears. I felt compassion for her. Not to the point of rescuing her (which I feel would be a big mistake), but I did feel bad for her.
Of course, what does she do later when I'm at my Relationships group at church? She follows up on the remaining detail for the D agreement, being the transportation of my S, that's what. She did it via text. That triggered a little anxiety, I think just because it's something I need to respond to. I waited a couple hours, and just responded back by first asking her if she was OK, because she appeared to be shaken. I told her I felt we should discuss any negotiation regarding the D via phone or better yet just meet up for coffee. I ended by saying I was emotionally shot and couldn't talk last night. She replied back with saying that she held it together for my S, but she was a train wreck. It was a big expense she wasn't prepared to deal with, and she's in dire straits as it is. She said she was really struggling. She also said we could talk later because she was spent as well.
I guess the positives I'm seeing from the conversation is that she's open with me. Obviously she still wants the D.
Anyway, to be continued....
J how are you doing buddy any update's
Well I believe the limbo going to be coming to end soon. Things came to head last Thursday night so to speak.
I was on my way back from a doubleheader of GAL'ing (a group ride downtown and stopping by Men's group at my church before heading home) and I received a text from my W. She told me she didn't think we could talk about the D anymore, she was very tired, she wanted me to get with my L and propose something on the last remaining item. If we didn't get this wrapped up by the end of this coming week, she was going to file for D.
I think previously that would have ticked me off. However, I thought I was waiting on her to set a time to talk about the final detail (it's the driving distance we're hung up on). However, I'm very tired myself and ready to move forward in one direction or the other. I took it as a signal to lay all my cards out on the table. I'll try to keep it to an executive summary here.
The entire conversation was through text. We texted back and forth from about 11pm to 1am. I kept on going until 3:40am. This seemed to work for us. I think we were able to cover a lot of things.
I started out by telling her I thought I was waiting on her, on when she wanted to set up a time to talk. I told her straight up I am just tired of waiting, tired of the limbo. Then I started into why I have been hanging around so long. I told her I was asking God to direct my every step, I wanted to be able to tell my S I tried EVERYTHING to save his family, there's a possibility I may just be crazy
I also mentioned I have been able to use this time to grow, have a lot of new friends now, and my relationship with God has grown.
Her take on that was I was blaming her for the failure of the M. She also said me telling her about all of the good things in my life just rubs salt into her wounds. She said she just felt like she lost herself in the M.
I responded by telling her I wasn't blaming her for the failure of the M - we both had our contributions to that failure. I felt our M is dead. However, we both have our different solutions to the problem - she says D, I say rebuild. That is where we disagree. I said both have their merits and drawbacks. I said if we were to rebuild, my biggest fear is that things would just return to the way they were, and we'd be in a worse place than we'd ever been.
I apologized for the way I'd hurt her in the past. I told her that was never my intention. I told her I have learned a lot from my mistakes, and I'm still growing.
I'm going to break this up into semi-manageable chunks so I'll break here...
I went on to tell her I really believed there is still a beautiful person behind that wall and hardened heart. I told her about some of the qualities I really believe are at the core of her soul. She is a friendly person and people naturally like her. She likes to laugh. She likes to make people laugh. She has an amazing singing voice. She pursued the Lord. But then I told her all I see is a broken, hurting mess right now.
She agreed with me. She IS broken and hurting right now. She feels she has very few friends. She said she cries a lot and has been looking at a lot of churches and can't find the right place. She has never felt so alone in her entire life.
I went on to tell her it was until the first marriage conference we went to in 2006 that I even saw there was the first thing wrong with our marriage. But looking in hindsight, I think she was checked out of the marriage even at that time.
She agreed with that it had been some time before that she had checked out of the marriage.
I told her that first marriage conference marked a big change in my life at the time. My W said she didn't know, didn't realize it. I mentioned to her that I really didn't tell her that at that time, did I? She affirmed that. I told her I probably didn't realize it myself either until I looked back on it. My W apologized she didn't see the changes and said her mind and heart were probably closed at that time.
I also told her I don't tell her about the positive things going on my life to rub salt in her wounds. But rather, it's that I would love for her to experience the joy in my heart and the things I believe God is doing in my life. I'd love to show her the way. However, she may have to take a different road to get there.
I went on to share some more of my story. I told her I had to pretty much hit rock and lose just about everything I thought I cared about before I would respond to what God wanted to do with me.
She said she just has the walls up. She feels like a walking target and the walls protect her. She agreed with me when I said I thought I wasn't the only one the walls were protecting her from.
I went on to say it makes it hard because I actually give a rip. I said it would be a lot easier if I just didn't care.
At that point, she was ready to go to bed. She thanked me for listening and talking through some things.
I told her I had just gotten a glass of wine and had more to say.
However, she was more than welcome to just go ahead to bed and hopefully she would have something entertaining to read in the morning, though there was no pressure to do so.
So I continued my "tirade" (not really that, but it sounds good to me)
Really all I did was recap where my head and heart's been since 2006. She didn't see the change then because she was so checked out. There were several events where I went through transformation during that time. There was the first bomb and start of MC in 2008. There was a marriage conference in 2008. There was another marriage conference in 2010. During this time, I was the one studying about relationship. I was watching videos online. I was reading books. She was way too fed up to see any of it.
Of course, there was also the bomb on 2/10/2011. I admitted to her how devastated I really was at that time, and how upside my world had been turned. But then I also went through how I've responded to it.
I concluded by asking her what she would like me to do. I said I could either follow up with my L as she had "encouraged" me to do, we could talk by phone to wrap things up, meet up to wrap things up, or we talk about rebuilding the M. I told her I believed there are a lot of exciting things going on my life and I'd like a special woman to join me in the pursuit of the Lord. I said I'd like for that special woman to be her. Heck, I'd even share my friends.
However, if that's not what she wants, I will respect her wishes. I said maybe God has someone else in mind or maybe He doesn't want to share me?
I have not heard back from her since Thursday night.
I figure I will either hear back or I will need to follow up with her.
There were also another couple of activities going on I didn't know about that I didn't find out about until Friday morning.
My W had texted a friend of mine from my church who had written her a letter late last year. She had asked for prayer and said she frequently reads her letter for encouragement. This text occurred about 5 hours before my W sent me the nastygram.
Another friend of mine had text-bombed my wife starting about 45 minutes after I got done with her. He felt compelled to do so. He has known my W for several years. He and his W had gone through a rough patch several years ago. He reported his observations that he knew we were going to have troubles. He also said I am not even close to the same man I was several years ago, that I have come a long way.
I am kind of thinking of these last events as being JB's Last Stand. I am sooo ready to move forward in my life. I am so tired of being a married bachelor and conducting myself that way.
Hey jb, rhetorical question: What does JB want?
Sure, you want to R. Do you think your W is testing you, telling you to talk to her through the L and then not responding to your texts from Tuesday?
Of course, I'm not encouraging you to get your L to file. If she said she would file if this other sticking point weren't completed, are you prepared to wait until she files?
How do you see this playing out?
Hey jb, rhetorical question: What does JB want?
At first glance, I want to put the limbo behind me. My W does, too. I think some of it depends on what she's willing to do. If she is willing to move in the direction of R, I am willing to wait on her as long as she's showing baby steps of progress. However, I am also very, very tired. If she is unable or unwilling to R, I just want to move on with my life. There are times when I get excited about the prospect of being in a different relationship. Sometimes I feel guilty if I move things forward with the D, like I'm the one taking the easy way out
On the emotional side, I am at the point where if we move things forward with the D, that's the point where I close the door on the relationship.
Do you think your W is testing you, telling you to talk to her through the L and then not responding to your texts from Tuesday?
No, I really don't think she is testing me. I think she is very confused. She has been sending me mixed signals all along. I can say for certain that she's very tired. Likely even more tired than I am.
If she said she would file if this other sticking point weren't completed, are you prepared to wait until she files?
I have a definite no for you on this one. While I really don't believe she would file, if she did file, it's just going to prolong this thing. That was actually my first thought. In the past, when she threatened to file, it triggered a lot of fear. This time, it didn't have that effect. It triggered a feeling of dread, that this thing would go on for another 1.5 years minimum.
How do you see this playing out?
I think I may have partially answered this above. However, my faith tells me one thing and my observations tell me another. My faith tells me it's not over. My observations and general feelings tell me just to move on. On one hand I can see a rebuilding of a M, and that's my faith. On the other hand, I am almost wondering if I am going to have to be in a new, happy relationship before my W sees things differently. By then, it'll be too late.
On a side note, I met my W 20 years ago today. I updated my signature here. Other than that, it's just another day.
Well, happy anniversary, then.
OK, well. I can certainly tell that you are tired. And by your relating your W's comments, she is, too. But...
Not tired enough to do something about it... if you know what I mean. Which then suggests... neither of you are done, yet. The limbo isn't bad enough for either of you to move forward... until one of you does...
How would you move forward? What would that look like, for jb? i mean forward, without your W and M. Truly surrender...
Well, happy anniversary, then.
Thanks!
I wished my W the same yesterday.
How would you move forward? What would that look like, for jb? i mean forward, without your W and M.
I don't see that as too difficult a question. Early in my journey I started GAL'ing. However, the GAL'ing for me was really a process of reinventing myself in regards to what I wanted my life to look like without regards to my W and M. Frankly, some of things I've been doing would interest my W and some she could care less about. Doesn't matter. So really moving forward would mean continuing on this track of reinventing myself. If that leads to another relationship in the future it does, and if it doesn't, it doesn't.
OK, I do understand what you are saying...
I am just trying to work through what could likely have just been a vent, for you. I am guessing that based on what you just posted, you are not ready to pull the trigger, no matter how frustrated and tired of the limbo, you currently find yourself as.
I know how that feels, without a doubt. And I have not yet pulled the trigger, although I don't think there's a trigger for me to pull, I think in my sitch this is more just walking away from the metaphorical M grave site. For me, this year has brought with it the realization that beyond there is no fixing the broken M, there will be no "new M", either. My choice and has nothing to do with bitterness nor resentfulness.
That said, for me. Are you prepared to just keep moving forward, even in the frustrations, and allow the M to be ended only by your W's choice and the time of due diligence by the legal system?
Little update from yesterday. My W came to pick up my S. I was working from home. I ended up following up with my W on the last text I sent her where I asked her whether she just wanted me to follow up with my L on the last item we have on our agreement, whether she to discuss it via phone and try to work something out, whether she wanted to meet, or whether there was a remote chance our conversation changed anything. She gave me a very vague answer, but ultimately I clarified she wanted me to just work with my L on that item.
My W's reasoning is that she has a lot of things up in the air right now. She's jobless and she's living with her parents. The D is one thing she feels she can get closure on, so she can check that box, so to speak.
In part of our conversation, I just mentioned if we go all the way through the D process, that'll be it for me. I will close the door on the M. I didn't say it to get a reaction, it's just the way I feel. She said she understood.
We pretty much left it at that. I have started a dialogue with my L to at least get the agreement back in her court and we'll go from there.
Truth of the matter is I think that's exactly what I needed to do. My W will not see me as who I am if she views me as merely as getting in the way of what she feels she needs to do.
Are you prepared to just keep moving forward, even in the frustrations, and allow the M to be ended only by your W's choice and the time of due diligence by the legal system?
Yes, I am, if it goes that direction. From what I believe, it's in God's hands. I have no intention of trying to force anything. I will continue to live my life in the meantime.
You're a good man, bj. A man that only a fool would leave.
I believe that you are on a good path.
Keep keeping on.
lol... stupid finger can't type...
Jb are you out there, any new updates?
jb - how are you doing my friend?
Sorry, don't mean to go dark on y'all. I have been very, very busy lately - more than ever. Just got home from a weekend road trip to Atlanta.
I have been going back and forth with my L, getting our D agreement shored up. We will then pass it along to my W's L for them to review and make any changes they want to make.
I go through a range of emotions. Most of the time, I'm excited about the potential of the future. After all, GAL'ing has caused me to create a whole new life for myself. I am really looking forward to the prospect of having someone to share it with. There are times of anxiety, too. I think the times of anxiety come when there is something looming I have to deal with. TBH, if my W were to say she wanted to work on herself and wanted me to wait, I believe I would be receptive. However, she hasn't said that, so maybe she's giving me a gift.
On my W's side of fence, she has secured a job. She is looking for a new place to live. Last week, when she was out with my S, she picked him up in one car and came home with a new one. This is her third car since we've been separated now. If she finds a place to live, it will be her fourth residence. So she's making changes, but I don't believe they are the changes that matter.
She still needs that "new car smell" excitement. Sounds pretty dang familiar to me...
She still hasn't figured out that objects and things outside of herself aren't going to make her happy. Maybe she'll finally settle down, some day...
I don't think there's anyone who knows you that would doubt that jb... master of GAL... will build a bright and amazing future.
Keep moving forward... hope the weather is decent for some midnight runs.
jb - great to hear from you. You sound happy and to be building a new, happy life. She seems to be "stuck" in turmoil and unhappiness.
I hate hearing about the new cars, etc. I don't know you or her, but it sounds like she's taking advantage of you. Ultimately you will be paying for part of her mistakes. Buying and selling automobiles so quickly typically incurs a large financial loss that's just rolled into the next bad decision. When/if the divorce hits the final stage, you could be on the hook for half of that loan/lease which is probably filled with tons of negative equity.
In some ways her being slow about the divorce is her making a decision - which is that she's not committed to you and the marriage.
I only throw that out there because you seem like a stand up guy and don't deserve that.
I don't know how Ohio laws work but you might ask your attorney about seeking an injunction or temporary restraining order which in essence preserves the "status quo" financially so that neither party can run up debt or hide assets.
As you get closer to the final resolution - which ever way that may be - you need to take care of YOU and your son.
Hey jb - are you still poking around here on this forum?
Hey jb - are you still poking around here on this forum?
Hey NTX! I still do occasionally check in.
Big surprise, but I continue to be very busy living this new life I've built for myself through this journey.
I had already discussed the car thing with my L last year when my W bought her previous car. It's looking like I'm clear of any responsibility toward her car purchases.
About 3 weeks ago, my W did text me in an attempt on trying to negotiate some of the terms of the D agreement. I didn't feel it was appropriate to do such a thing via text, so we had a phone call the next day. We still having some sticking points, and during the conversation she left me feeling like I hadn't grown at all over the last 2.5 years, more like I'd regressed to about 8 years ago. I think she was frustrated I've hired a L and that I won't just go along with the way she thinks it should be. I've had time to process it over the last 3 weeks and the truth has been working its way back. It's kind of funny, she's the only person in the world that can lead me to feeling bad about myself. I left the conversation, too with a little fear that she may do something irrational like just outright file for D for instance. I think I've realized that may be possible, but the worst case scenario isn't realistic.
One of the biggest sticking points remains to be the transportation for my S. She has made the decision to move 40 miles from me (and our S for that matter) and yet expects to split the transportation evenly. I think at this point it's more a matter of what we're going to put down in the agreement more than it is about what we're going to practice. Over the summer, we're trying to arrange it so my S is only going back and forth once a week. I'm doing a little more driving than it looks like I'll be doing during the school year, but we're trying to minimize between the two of us. During the school year, my W is just planning on coming and spending a couple of evening with my S during the week and then he would be with her only every other weekend.
For now, I am still waiting to hear back from her. It could be any day, any minute. She's had it in her court for 4 weeks now. Yet, anytime we talk about it, she intimates that I'm primarily responsible for making the process drag on as long as it has.
Hi JB,
Nice to hear from you. Sorry to hear the latest on your sitch. Seems like your wife is taking her frustrations out on you. But You sound like you got your handles on the sitch...good for you.
Nice job JB, keep us posted!
Newman
Hi jb-
Saw your latest.
You said it yourself:
"With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.' - Matt. 19:26"
What is your goal at this time?
Keep the faith-
Thanks for stopping in, newman! Good to hear from you. Hope you are well, my friend!
Rick, I don't have any significant tangible updates at this time. Of course, that could all change in the blink of an eye.
We have been waiting to hear back from her L for 6.5 weeks now on the D agreement stuff.
I do know when my S has been visiting my W, she has been a little lax on attending to his needs. I realize it's summer, but she hasn't been making him shower, many times the laundry's not caught up, and she has very little there for him to eat. He says she spends very little time with him - most of the time she has her head buried in her phone or laptop or she's talking on the phone.
My S has told me my W is actively dating. That would have hit me like a ton of bricks a couple of years ago. I surprised my myself about how much I really didn't care when he told me that, at least for my sake. For my S's sake, it's a different story. She has been going through a pattern of dating several men in serial. Within days, she has brought the guy to her house. Then they break up and she's sad, according to my S. IMO, the way she's handling the dating is totally inappropriate, whether we're D or not.
It's become very clear she is unwilling and/or unable to work on herself. She's looking for someone else to fix her. She's disappointed every time.
My W continues to make herself more unattractive to me as the months go by. She is continuing this downward spiral. Meanwhile, I feel like the Lord is leading me in an entirely opposite direction. It just seems like we're getting further and further apart. Yet, that all being said, if she were to wake up one day and without a shadow of doubt say she wants to rebuild the M, there's a chance I would be receptive. That is, if I saw clear evidence she was changing the path she's currently on.
That's where it's at at the moment.
Hi jb-
Saw your latest.
You said it yourself:
"With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.' - Matt. 19:26"
What is your goal at this time?
Keep the faith-
Actually, it was Jesus that said that. I just quoted it and felt like God gave that to me back in February of 2011.
Anyway to answer your question, I am really just taking it one day at a time, asking God what we wants me to do. I am trying to listen for His will. I am trying to also keep the momentum going with my new life.
I am eager to have someone to share my new life with now. I'll have to be honest, right now I don't feel like my W is very compatible with me.
Be really careful about letting your 12yo be the conduit of information about what your W is doing and how you feel about her actions. Don't put him in that place, and don't let him be there if he's using complaints about mom as an easy conversation topic to have with dad. Your care and concern in response to his comments will encourage him to report more and get more of that positive attention. It's just my opinion but I think if he's feeling down about lack of attention from his mom, focus on teaching him some ways to address that directly with her such as to ask her to make a plan to play a game with him or do an activity with him. He's going to need to learn how to navigate the relationship with his mom and get his needs met, and he's old enough to start learning how to do that. I would discourage him from reporting her dating activities to you, and if he complains to you about it perhaps tell him it is completely normal for divorced parents to date. You may telegraph your disapproval to him so he sees this topic as a way of bonding. There is usually stuff going on under the surface with kids of this age that neither of you may realize is happening if you're not on the lookout for it, and dad=good mom=notsogood is not really healthy for him. He's got to learn how to make the best of his reality.
You personally sound like you're in a pretty good place; it's been a long journey, huh?
Thanks for stopping in AD!
Be really careful about letting your 12yo be the conduit of information about what your W is doing and how you feel about her actions. Don't put him in that place, and don't let him be there if he's using complaints about mom as an easy conversation topic to have with dad. Your care and concern in response to his comments will encourage him to report more and get more of that positive attention. It's just my opinion but I think if he's feeling down about lack of attention from his mom, focus on teaching him some ways to address that directly with her such as to ask her to make a plan to play a game with him or do an activity with him. He's going to need to learn how to navigate the relationship with his mom and get his needs met, and he's old enough to start learning how to do that. I would discourage him from reporting her dating activities to you, and if he complains to you about it perhaps tell him it is completely normal for divorced parents to date.
This is a very tricky situation. I would say I am putting a lot of this into practice in the way I'm handling it - maybe not to the letter, so to speak.
When he tells me these things, I just listen, almost to the point where I'm just simply collecting data. I really don't offer too much of an opinion, and he's the one bringing this up almost all of the time of the time. I'm not perfect in this regard. I do offer suggestions on things he can do to spend time with Mom, and even asked him if he's discussed some of these things with his Mom. I remind him his Mom loves him, and I believe she does.
There is some fear there, that I will handle myself the same way as Mom. It has opened up a discussion on how I do intend to handle myself post-D. I have candidly told him there may come a day when I will want to date, I just don't feel like now is the right time. I have told him I don't intend for him to meet anyone unless it's reasonably serious. I have asked him if he would want to know if I'm dating anyone when the time comes. He said he would like to know, but he didn't want to meet anyone unless it was serious.
There's a fine line here between letting him decide or learn what's right or wrong and avoiding throwing Mom under the bus, which the latter is highly inappropriate IMO. Not that she doesn't do it to me because he has also told me about some things she's said. (e.g. one of things she's told him is that I'm delaying the whole D process, yet I've been waiting on her almost 7 weeks now). Again, on those things, I have listened, but not really provided any feedback or defense.
You personally sound like you're in a pretty good place; it's been a long journey, huh?
Yes, I think I'm generally in a good place. I have my moments and days, but overall and all things considered, I think I'm doing well. And yes - it has been a l-o-o-o-o-n-g journey for sure. I think you know a little bit about that.
It kind of sounds like he's looking to be close with you by affirming your way of doing things and by expressing his disapproval to you of his mom's way of doing things, knowing that you agree even if you're not saying anything, probably guessing that you approve of his values because they match your own. It's a fine line to walk between being someone he can tell anything and being someone to whom some things are inappropriate to spend much time talking about.
I guess if I'm telling you anything I'd do different it would be to do less data collection and if it seems like a favored topic maybe try to appear less interested in mom's personal life. Anyway, I sometimes think as I'm writing to other people, what is it I should be learning from this...and I think for me I could be doing a better job myself of being less judgmental of my H, who is not up for father of the year award in my book. I am 100% there, 100% committed, I'm trying so hard to really be there for my kids, and really fretting for their wellbeing, in stark difference to my H. My feeling self-righteous is not good for me or my kids; maybe I need to relax my judgment on my H. So I might be talking to me more than you here. Something to go ponder.
The other thing, curious but not trying to provide advice I guess. I do not tell my kids their dad loves them. I did only on the night we told them he was moving out, because I felt like it was so important for them to hear that we both loved them, but that was the very last time I spoke for him on that topic. I don't know how he feels. The kids know how he acts regardless of what I might tell them about how he feels. What they believe and feel from him is between him and them. So I have not said it again. I don't know if that's a mistake. I don't want to look like a liar, and I don't want to be in charge of explaining and speaking for H anymore. FWIW. I thought it was interesting the way you worded "I believe that she does" I don't know if I was reading into it based on my sitch, that's not a wording that sounds like you're that sure. That's a wording that would seem to go with "in spite of all evidence to the contrary..."
I would say son if something's really bothering you I'll try to help guide you, but sometimes we're bordering on gossiping about what mom's up to, and that's not my business to know about now except where you need help dealing.
I'm just throwing that out as a practice. My kids don't talk to me nearly as much as your son does with you, and they're definitely not in any way trying to bond with my by talking down about their dad's activities. He comes up so rarely in conversation in any way, today my son mentioned shopping with dad for a present for dad's friend whose father died and I had to really work for a minute to figure out who he was even talking about. I caught up, but it struck me how weird it is when I get an occasional report that there's life and activity happening in H-land. So different from your sitch.
Just that, what I've read is the very best for the kid is to think mom is ok and dad is ok.
jb, it has always been interesting how similar our sitches are. How similar our stbxs are as are the time frames.
My D10 does tell me things from time to time, like not being alone or that my stbx is actively dating or sometimes, when she is doing things (like apparently planning to attend the outdoor music festival again with her enabler friends, this year).
I just wanted to mention that it is OK to listen to your S12, as I do listen to my D10 when she mentions that stuff, although I do try to acknowledge and then direct the conversation to something else, as she does when she notices she's on stbx as a subject, too long.
Keep moving yourself forward.
I guess if I'm telling you anything I'd do different it would be to do less data collection and if it seems like a favored topic maybe try to appear less interested in mom's personal life. Anyway, I sometimes think as I'm writing to other people, what is it I should be learning from this...and I think for me I could be doing a better job myself of being less judgmental of my H, who is not up for father of the year award in my book. I am 100% there, 100% committed, I'm trying so hard to really be there for my kids, and really fretting for their wellbeing, in stark difference to my H. My feeling self-righteous is not good for me or my kids; maybe I need to relax my judgment on my H. So I might be talking to me more than you here. Something to go ponder.
What Mom's up to probably only amounts to about 3% of what my S and I talk about. It's not just an easy topic to start a dialogue on - we have lots of other things we discuss. We've built our own life outside of what his Mom may or may not be doing. We've always bonded well and we're a lot closer since my W left the home.
That 3% we discuss is probably the most noteworthy things pertinent to my situation here, though. So it probably sounds like we're talking about my W a lot more than we are.
The onus is on me to just be the best Dad I can be for my S. I do have to fill in some of the holes where my W just simply isn't stepping up to the plate. I am handling everything with the school, doctor and dentist visits, he goes to church with me every Sunday, we make meal plans, and so on. He still needs Mom, though, and I know there are roles I cannot fill in that regard.
jb, it has always been interesting how similar our sitches are. How similar our stbxs are as are the time frames.
My D10 does tell me things from time to time, like not being alone or that my stbx is actively dating or sometimes, when she is doing things (like apparently planning to attend the outdoor music festival again with her enabler friends, this year).
I just wanted to mention that it is OK to listen to your S12, as I do listen to my D10 when she mentions that stuff, although I do try to acknowledge and then direct the conversation to something else, as she does when she notices she's on stbx as a subject, too long.
Keep moving yourself forward.
KD, thanks for stopping in. It's always good to hear from you. Yes, I would say my conversations with my S are similar to what you described with your D.
Hope you are well, my friend.
jb - I worry when you don't post for 3-4 weeks. I hope you are doing ok and just are busy.
A lot of food for thought jb...glad S has you, since W does not seem to be a capable parent right now. Not that she loves S less than you, but I find that people go a few ways with kids; they put kids first and that helps to heal them as well. They can't think of kids at all because they can't fix themselves at this point and most unfortunately, the last, they don't care all that much about the kids in the first place
You sound balanced...
jb - I worry when you don't post for 3-4 weeks. I hope you are doing ok and just are busy.
No worries NTX. I was just waiting for you to give me a prod. LOL I'm fine, very busy.
Took my fifth mission trip and my first with my S since the bomb was dropped. And just left for vacation with my S awhile ago.
I'm overdue for a more detailed update, but in an executive summary my W and I are moving forward with the D process. It's looking like we're going to be able to reach an agreement on things between the two of us, without the Ls. At this point, the door is still cracked open for my W, but frankly I'm ready to explore other relationships. I won't do that, however, until I'm legally available.
Like I said though, there's a lot more to the story. I'm feeling pretty peaceful about things at this point.
A lot of food for thought jb...glad S has you, since W does not seem to be a capable parent right now. Not that she loves S less than you, but I find that people go a few ways with kids; they put kids first and that helps to heal them as well. They can't think of kids at all because they can't fix themselves at this point and most unfortunately, the last, they don't care all that much about the kids in the first place
You sound balanced...
KP thanks for stopping by!
That all sounds like a pretty good assessment.
I'd say for the most part I'm pretty balanced. I think I may gotten myself too much of a life at times, but it sure beats the alternative!