Divorcebusting.com
Hello,
I'm supposed to keep this short- as I am new here.

My situation is a bit different than most. I am 41 and so is my wife. We have one child, he is ten. We have been married 20yrs at this point. About 2 yrs. ago my wife started having an online emotional affair (Second Life). We weren't getting along that great either, Arguing. I felt horrible, she paid no attention to me. Said I didnt listen to her or something like that;) No really, I didn't know how to meet her needs. How to just hear her, and how she was feeling. Then she broke us up. we got separate apartments. I went right out and got a new GF. This made her insanely jealous. I broke up with new girl after 3 months, so I could go back to my family and her. We started couples therapy back when I first got the GF. Then things were getting better for a year. At that point I had some problems, found out I was bi-polar, and got depressed. I broke up with my wife. Stopped couples therapy. I also got my bi-polar medicated, and got on antidepressants. It took about a year to get that all under control. We still talked to each other and went out as a family on weekends. Divorce had been kicked around and was like we just were being lazy about it. Actually I was dragging my feet, but i didnt tell her that. I just didnt make any effort toward it. I was feeling good and I was starting to want to go back and try it again, I was afraid to ask her to take me back. Then she has a guy (same as before) from the UK come over for 2 weeks. This made me insanely jealous. I didnt expect that. I told her all this- That I loved her, And wanted to try it again. I also begged and pleaded and all the stuff I wasnt supposed to do. So she is into this other guy and I want to win her back. She said its just easier to be with him. That he is good with sharing his emotions. She said she would go back to the couples councilor with me. That happens 2 weeks from now. How should I proceed to win her back? What method. I have "the divorce remedy" book. Thanks for your time.
Originally Posted By: Acy
So she is into this other guy and I want to win her back. She said its just easier to be with him. That he is good with sharing his emotions. She said she would go back to the couples councilor with me. That happens 2 weeks from now. How should I proceed to win her back? What method. I have "the divorce remedy" book. Thanks for your time.


Right now the big selling point of OM is that he is not you. He has problems of his own, but she doesn't see them yet. In time she will. Right now all you can do is work on yourself. Figure out what your contributions were to the marriage failing and do 180's on those things. Settle in for the long haul, this won't be fixed overnight or in a week or a month. It's going to take many months. Be consistent with your 180's. She will notice, but it will take time before she accepts that you really have changed and aren't just doing it to trick her into coming back to you. Also, work on GAL (get a life). Reach out to old friends, make new ones. Pick up old hobbies and new ones. Run, lift weights, cycle, fly a kite, build a model, work on your car, whatever makes you happy and takes your mind off the M even if only for a while. Read DR over and over again and work the principles into your life. Print out the DB 180 tips and review them daily to remind yourself what to do and not do regarding your W.

Good luck!
Have you looked into Dialectical Behavioral Therapy?
Thank you both for your speedy replies.
I will do 180's, and GAL.
She doesn't seem to want to talk about her feelings at all. She does talk about general stuff like what our kid is doing or whatever. Should I keep trying or not?
Can I let her see me reading the DB book?
Thank you Chatterbug, I looked at DB therapy, it seems to have a lot in common with Hakomi/RCS . I am actually studying to become a Hakomi and RCS therapist. I've done the first year and am on my second.

Thank you Anotherstander. I will figure out what 180's to do and concentrate on GAL and read DB.

Another question, should I let her see me reading the DB?
It's been days since I responded to my thread, but my posts are not showing up.
I've noticed that one of the testimonials at the end of the "divorce remedy" book the husband had his wife read the DB book. Why shouldn't I at least have my wife read the first chapter of DR? It highlights the reasons to stay married.
It was what he was writing to Michele.....not what she advised to him. I feel it would not be wise to try to get her to read the book right now. Of course, you could talk to the DB coaches and get advice.

Asking your W to read DR or any other book on M is your way of trying to fix things.....or as you said, "win her back". It doesn't usually work that way. I think DR is written more with the LBS in mind. Michele is giving advice to the one who wants the M to continue....not the one who wants to end it. Also, DR is like your tool box. It gives you the tools to use in how to coop. It's for "you".

I am curious as to why you think your story is different and doesn't fit any of the categories on the board. If you'll read some of the other threads here, you can't help but notice how they all begin to sound alike.

Right now you feel scared and in panick mode. The first thing you have to do is calm your fears and find inner stability. If you'll read far enough, you'll find what is... and what is not an attractive man to a woman. Until your W begins to feel attracted to you again...the chances of her wanting to stay are slim. I say slim b/c there are a few cases where one will find their moral compass....or spiritual conviction, and decide to do the "right thing" and stay in the M. That's what I did and let me tell you, it is a very slow and painful journey when one does not have the desire for the other one.

The fact that your W was jealous of you and the GF, shows that she still had some type of feeling about it. Doesn't mean it was love....but she felt something. It's when she totally feels nothing for the LBH that seems so hopeless. I'm not saying to run out there and try to make her jealous again, okay? I'm just pointing out that your M can still be saved, but it's going to take a tremdous amout of work on yourself. Not her. YOU! You can't fix anyone but yourself. She will have her own battles and work to face, but first things first.

Are you going to stick with us? I hope so. You need to post every day if possible, in order to keep people responding to your thread.
Originally Posted By: chatterbug
Have you looked into Dialectical Behavioral Therapy?


DBT is specifically tailored to BPD, Borderline Personality Disorder.

Since you are new here, i suggest you read several threads from beginning to end and look for the similarities in your situation.

You must have been on moderation and your posts need to get reviewed before the moderators allow them to publish.

Be patient.

I am learning a new way to look at myself from reading all the advice given to others.

Try to not let anxiety get in the way. The best actions can always be deferred to later.

Work on improving yourself.

Ed
Thank you Sandi2
OK dont have her read the book.

I feel this situation is different because I left her and while split she got a BF. So Its not an affair. It may be sort of the same, but not the same. I am the one now that wants to try and save marriage.

I hear that I just need to GAL. It is very difficult at the moment. I have a job, I lift weights, I am attending School, I fish with my son, I just went to Vegas, I went to my friends birthday bash at a pub on Friday night. -Seems like I have a life. I am quite busy.

I will try to stick with you guys. I read DR twice.
I have goals.

"Am I Too Late"
Thanks for the clarification about DBT.

I think I am off moderation now.

-------------------------
Another element I should mention is that we work at the same place, so we have to see each other quite a bit. So...
This morning she confided in me that she is beating herself up, and that its not fair that I want her and she is "supposed" to not proceed with new guy. My son was mad at her for having OM at house. She is still pretty upset about that.
Later on we had another chat when she asked me how I was doing, I was sad. I asked her how she was doing, she said ok and then proceeded to say she is not interested in me moving back in or being in a relationship with me, also that she is not interested in any physical relation. I wasn't even asking about these things she was just saying this stuff.

One of my 180's is to listen to her and ask her about her day and how she is feeling.

Also we spent a lot of time together over the weekend with our son. We went out to dinner with our son, we had drinks together at her house. No relationship talk.
I've been reading 5 love languages. While I was watching our son at her house I mowed her lawn and did the dishes, while she went out with her mom to eat and shop. Is that good or bad? She was happy about it.

So what should I do in couples therapy tomorrow?
P.S. I have been upbeat around her and acting like I am alright. I did slip on the one thing today when I admitted to being Sad.
Acy, I would agree that your situation very much fits into many other stories on the boards. I went through a period where I thought I was alone in my situation. I agree that you should read through some threads from start to finish. You actually have waited longer than some to get here so you should keeping mind that some of the longer posts might actually make more sense to you as some posters have posted throughout their journey where you have come here with some history already. In the end, the common thread is that the posters here, for the most part, want to get their spouse back. Otherwise why would we be here. This isn't a foolproof technique and there is no guarantee of success. But the idea is to do the 180s that you need to. Even if 5% of what was wrong is you. Fix that 5%. Do some soul searching and admit to yourself the things that you could change. Do it for you, make yourself a better person. Make yourself the better option to your W. You guys working together is good and bad. You don't get to have your own space but you do have an opportunity to show her the new you. Hopefully if she sees that you have really changed she will be kicking herself for not wanting to be back with you. But these need to be life long changes, not just to manipulate her to get her back. This way, no matter what happens, you will be a better person for your next relationship. Maybe that will be with your W, maybe not. But you will be better off for it either way.
Thanks for your support Fuanacdc

I guess its true that the common thread is wanting to get our spouse's back.

I still don't know how to approach the Therapy session tomorrow.
IMHO this could be a good thing. Is this the same counselor you went to before or someone new? There are a lot of bad counsellors out there. Is this someone that you know that will give advice in line with what you and your wife believe? It took me a while to admit it, but MC only works if you both want to fix it, at least most of the time. I finally got my W to agree to it, but she was only going because she was certain that the MC would tell us we couldn't fit it. Then the MC told us this was all very fixable. Still afterwards, all my W heard was that we could only fix it if we both wanted to try. Your W isn't interested in 'fixing' your marriage, as hard as it is to grasp. She has no interest in rekindling what you had. That is why she left. Your hope lies in the fact that you can start a brand new R with her. For whatever reason, rational or not, she doesn't want what you had. At least not in the end. So my advice to you is to figure out what changed. If it was that you were more exciting when you got married, then do something about that. If it was that you started to argue, then figure out why. Take those revelations to the MC. Maybe she will at least see you had your 'eureka' moment. That isn't going to fix everything magically overnight. But couple that with her seeing you make lasting changes about those things and it may be a good thing. No matter what you do, do NOT make this a bashing session on her. If she has things to work on, then that is something that she will need to deal with in her next R. Hopefully that is with you. But let's see if you can't get some sort of R started first, right now you don't have that. She made it clear to you that she doesn't want that right now. So show her that you at least are acknowledging that SOMETHING needs to change. Sorry for the long post. It is strange for this advice to be coming out of my mouth when I am in the same boat with you! We can all support another in some respect though. Stay strong!
IMHO this could be a good thing. Is this the same counselor you went to before or someone new? There are a lot of bad counsellors out there. Is this someone that you know that will give advice in line with what you and your wife believe? It took me a while to admit it, but MC only works if you both want to fix it, at least most of the time. I finally got my W to agree to it, but she was only going because she was certain that the MC would tell us we couldn't fit it. Then the MC told us this was all very fixable. Still afterwards, all my W heard was that we could only fix it if we both wanted to try. Your W isn't interested in 'fixing' your marriage, as hard as it is to grasp. She has no interest in rekindling what you had. That is why she left. Your hope lies in the fact that you can start a brand new R with her. For whatever reason, rational or not, she doesn't want what you had. At least not in the end. So my advice to you is to figure out what changed. If it was that you were more exciting when you got married, then do something about that. If it was that you started to argue, then figure out why. Take those revelations to the MC. Maybe she will at least see you had your 'eureka' moment. That isn't going to fix everything magically overnight. But couple that with her seeing you make lasting changes about those things and it may be a good thing. No matter what you do, do NOT make this a bashing session on her. If she has things to work on, then that is something that she will need to deal with in her next R. Hopefully that is with you. But let's see if you can't get some sort of R started first, right now you don't have that. She made it clear to you that she doesn't want that right now. So show her that you at least are acknowledging that SOMETHING needs to change. Sorry for the long post. It is strange for this advice to be coming out of my mouth when I am in the same boat with you! We can all support another in some respect though. Stay strong!
Sorry for the double post. And keep doing your 180s. It will take time.
Originally Posted By: Acy
She doesn't seem to want to talk about her feelings at all. She does talk about general stuff like what our kid is doing or whatever. Should I keep trying or not?


The only thing you should be "trying" to do is to be a fantastic listener. Do not pressure her into talking about her feelings, but if she does go there then you listen and validate. That's it. Make eye contact, nod, lean forward, repeat back key thoughts. You talk just enough to validate and let her know you're listening. If all she wants to talk about is light and fluffy stuff then that's cool too.

Originally Posted By: Acy
Why shouldn't I at least have my wife read the first chapter of DR? It highlights the reasons to stay married.


I tried exactly that with my W. I found the first chapter online and sent it to her in an email. I'm sure she read it, but she never said a word about it. It didn't change a thing. I don't think getting WAS's to read anything really works well unless they get to the point where they're considering reconciliation.

Quote:
I hear that I just need to GAL. It is very difficult at the moment. I have a job, I lift weights, I am attending School, I fish with my son, I just went to Vegas, I went to my friends birthday bash at a pub on Friday night. -Seems like I have a life. I am quite busy.


I'm surprised you say it's difficult, because it sounds like you're doing it already smile The idea of GAL is just to live your own life without your W. Take your mind off of W. Do things for you and your own enjoyment. Sounds like the above activities fit the bill quite well.

Quote:
This morning she confided in me that she is beating herself up, and that its not fair that I want her and she is "supposed" to not proceed with new guy.


This would have been a good time to validate her emotions. She says she's beating herself up, you say "Wow, that sounds really frustrating, is that how you feel, frustrated?" Then if she says yes then you say "Yeah, I can understand why you feel that way." You're not agreeing or disagreeing with anything she said, you're just trying to get her to talk about how she feels and you're validating it. The goal is to make her comfortable talking to you about her feelings. DO NOT try to fix her problems! That's a guy thing, women don't want fixing, they want validation.

Quote:
Later on we had another chat when she asked me how I was doing, I was sad.


From one of Michele's books:

"successful DBers cherish their spouse and show a great deal of compassion. They almost always keep their pain to themselves... they "act as if" things are normal in their life"

I know you want to be honest with her about your feelings, but this isn't the time for it. Right now you need to act "as if" everything is fine.

Quote:
I asked her how she was doing, she said ok and then proceeded to say she is not interested in me moving back in or being in a relationship with me, also that she is not interested in any physical relation. I wasn't even asking about these things she was just saying this stuff.


Again, just validate. "I understand why you feel that way and I support your decision." Don't argue, negotiate, explain, etc. Just validate.

Quote:
Is that good or bad? She was happy about it.


Well then it was good!

Quote:
So what should I do in couples therapy tomorrow?


Listen. If she brings up reasons she wants out of the M, then make mental notes of those and add them to your 180 list. Try not to talk much, your W will probably perceive any M comments as pressure on her.
Thank you both for all this good advice. The therapist is our original therapist. She knows what she is doing. Today the session went very well in my opinion. W agreed to continue going to therapy -thats great. She has a bunch of pent up feelings- anger-feeling like she is bouncing around-Not sure what she wants-Afraid I will leave her again if she lets me in-Afraid of becoming enmeshed with me again. I explained that I wanted a relationship where we could be independent people and still be in relation. The therapist agreed that would be possible. The therapist said she believed me when I said that I was sure of what I wanted and stable now. I said I wanted to be a family again and have a relationship with W. She asked W if she thought I was being honest and W agreed. I think that was a huge thing.
W is very concerned how this all will effect our son, councilor assured us that he will be ok no matter how this ends up, because we are both good solid people. That seemed to make her relieved. Our next appointment isn't for 2 weeks and we decided to have separate appointments, then a together appointment a week later.
I feel encouraged, because W wasn't dogging the idea of getting back together (which she had been outside of therapist office). So I guess I just GAL for 3 weeks and continue my 180's. Thanks again for your support.
That does sound encouraging. But remember, you can only believe half of what she does and none of what she says. This will take time. Make sure you are working on yourself and make those changes last.
So this evening my W said:
she was overwhelmed
said I would make a good partner
she is afraid of being alone in the future
afraid that our son will not like her if she has OM
She dosent want to have to decide if she wants relationship with me or not
Wanted to know what would happen if I got bored (in the relationship) because im a gemini. I told her that would be my problem, not anyone else. (not bored because of her)
She said I am better now because I listen

This is when I said to much:
Then I screwed up and started talking about how I wasnt interested in a fairy tale fling with anyone. I wanted to do the work to make this work. That commitment and trust are what its all about in relationship. And some other type stuff. She got all trapped feeling and like she is trying to be convinced.

So I realized I screwed up. I kicked myself a bit for doing that. So the good half and the bad half, maybe it evens out...

I have a new 180 from it though -Dont try to convince her. let her alone about it.
Originally Posted By: Acy
She asked W if she thought I was being honest and W agreed. I think that was a huge thing.


I'm not trying to deflate your hopes, but I want to give you more realistic expectations. My W and I went to MC for 6 sessions and they seemed to go unbelievably well. I really thought we were on the road to recovery, there were many positive signs. The only "hangup" was any time the C asked my W about the future of our R she would respond "I just don't want to try". She ackowledged my 180's, said I had become the perfect husband since BD, said everything was fantastic in the home including sex, but she was done with the M and didn't "want to try". In the end the MC did not change her mind and she left. I just want you to understand that it may seem like MC is going well, but if your W is "done" then the MC may have no impact on her at all.

Quote:
W is very concerned how this all will effect our son, councilor assured us that he will be ok no matter how this ends up, because we are both good solid people. That seemed to make her relieved.


LOL! Nearly word-for-word what our C said. Unfortunately it just made my W (and probably yours) believe that leaving the M will have little to no impact on the kids. So at that point concern about the kids ceased to be a factor in W's decision.

Originally Posted By: Acy

This is when I said to much:
Then I screwed up and started talking about how I wasnt interested in a fairy tale fling with anyone. I wanted to do the work to make this work. That commitment and trust are what its all about in relationship. And some other type stuff. She got all trapped feeling and like she is trying to be convinced.


Go back and read my last post to you. Your job is NOT to talk! It is to LISTEN!!! Listen and validate! Tattoo it to the inside of your eyelids! When you tell her what you want the R to be, she sees you as controlling and manipulative.

Quote:
So the good half and the bad half, maybe it evens out...


It doesn't. One bad thing wipes out a ton of good things. A really bad thing can wipe out weeks and weeks of progress. That's OK, it happens. Just double down on your DB efforts.
There is something I've noticed in the majority of LBH's. They feel so desperate to hear the W say she'll work on the M....or at least say she won't file for a D. It's really difficult for him to focus on his plan of action b/c he just wants her to this or that.

You know how men & women are in having sex. The man is a microwave and the woman a slow burning cooker. Reaching the goal may not be in the same timing. In fact, the goal may not even be quite the same. He may want to climax....but she may want to experience the physical closeness of him. He goes for the finish line and then he is done and feels it's complete, while she may still want more of the physical loving. (Of course I realize there may be a few couples in the entire world that are not like this example.) Anyway, I think it is much this way after the WAW drops the bomb on him. They have different goals in mind. They have different desires and what he wants to do will not be what she necessarily wants. And you know........no matter how sexy the voice, talking usually just don't cut it for the woman. She needs more than talk, guys.

From what I've observed in most stories, the LBH can't seem to focus on much of anything b/c he just wants her to say that she'll agree to work on the R. I get this picture of him trying to set on a hot stove. But she is cold. No matter how much he tries to get her to warm up like he is.....she looks at him scooting around on top of the flame and she wants no part of it. And even though he may get good advice about solving his M problems....he's thinking, "I know....I know, but I just want her to tell me _________ (fill in the blank), and then I can do such & such. He wants assurance! But there isn't going to be any assurance from her.

I wonder if it's b/c of man's characteristic to conquer. And how many win the W back....and think they are through working?

The WAW does not desire anything in regards to her H, the M, affection, on & on. The more he wants her to just say she'll "try".....the worse he's making it on himself. If he can accept that he won't hear her say that, the better chance he will have. Each time he brings it up, the more he pushes her away.

Not to pull you down more than you already are, Acy, but I don't think she'll stick with the counseling. She doesn't want to work things out and she doesn't want to stay in the M. Her mind is on another man and she daydreams of how life with him could be....or how better her life would be if she was single.

Don't ask her if she'll keep attending or if she's going to stop. But brace yourself in case she springs this on you. Know in advance what you will do if she tells you it isn't working and she doesn't want to go back to the counseling.

Do you know what you would do? It may be wise to have some backup plans in mind. IOW, let yourself dare to think about some things she might do and what action you'd take if she chooses to do it.

Even if she stops going to the C sessions, it doesn't mean the M can't still be saved, okay? But when the WAW has pulled in a third party, things usually gets worse after she's dropped the bomb. Probably, you are going to face a lot...but you will get through this and will be better and stronger. Just keep reminding yourself this isn't a quick nor easy fix. It will come in baby-steps, so hang in there.
Very insightful Sandi!! Before I found DB'ing I kept asking W for some assurance that there was just a tiny possibility she would consider R down the road. I told her even a 5% change, or a 1% chance would be something to work towards. But she steadfastly refused to offer even that much hope. What's the lesson? I never should have asked in the first place! I know that now, but didn't then. I was just applying pressure to her, it wouldn't have mattered if I was asking for a 99% possibility or 1%, either way it was 100% pressure.
Originally Posted By: AnotherStander
I know that now, but didn't then. I was just applying pressure to her, it wouldn't have mattered if I was asking for a 99% possibility or 1%, either way it was 100% pressure.


Great advice. My sitch is still fairly new, but I learned this same hard lesson early on. DB'ing works and addresses this if you stay consistent. It is hard, but I do notice a change in the R conversations when she brings them up and the moment I stopped asking her for assurances the more she would talk. Even the level of anger has died down because of the BD process.
Originally Posted By: sandi2
The WAW does not desire anything in regards to her H, the M, affection, on & on. The more he wants her to just say she'll "try".....the worse he's making it on himself. If he can accept that he won't hear her say that, the better chance he will have. Each time he brings it up, the more he pushes her away.


Excellent insight, Sandi. It is as if you were in the same room when I first started pushing my wife for any level of assurance. I thought what I was doing was innocent and harmless and yet I realize now it was just as selfish and destructive as my W was being. I pushed her further and further each time.

I hope others are reading this same thread. What great insight.
Thank you!
Anotherstander, sandi2 and nickb smile
You guys are great. It really means a lot to me to have a little support in all this. And to keep me Patient, and on track.

I have been working on letting go, it seems as soon as I really decided to just let go and just do the LIsten and Validate, she has been in a better mood around me.

I have a question again though. So one of my 180's is to initiate conversation about how she is doing. But the book says to let her initiate, so I am not quite sure what advice to follow?
I agree with not starting the conversation. The reason being that it is pressure to her. Maybe there was a time she would have loved you doing it, but not now.

There is so much about men that are of a pursuing nature. That is usually what women like.....but not a WAW. Any type of pursuit from you will totally turn her off.

I'm glad you asked, b/c I'm sure you were looking at starting a conversation about her day as showing you are interested in her. You have to do the opposite of what you really feel like you should be doing...in nearly everything at this point in the stitch.
Great, thanks for the 411 Sandi2, I will let her start any conversations.

She started the conversation today. I tried my best to just listen and validate.
She started out saying she wants to finalize the D papers. Said she is angry that I was dragging my feet before. I told her that it was not my intension in the beginning (a year ago), it was only the past few months. Said she feels like she is just floating around as usual, not making decisions. I just listened. She said she cant take the guilt anymore. That she had reorganized our relationship in her head over the past year, during the separation. She said she feels trapped because she feels like she is in charge of my emotions my happiness. I told her that she wasn't in control of my emotions, that I was.

After thinking a little, I knew I hadn't contacted enough and said to much as usual. I later text her that I realize she feels trapped, and if finalizing the papers would help, then I will help do it. She said OK.

I have a really hard time just validating. She is so critical of my efforts. I listen. But fall silent after some things are said because I cant think of a good way to validate. Sometimes I say "I hear that" Is that a validation? I do think of what I could say.

arghh, I guess I will just keep trying when she starts a conversation, Listen, Validate, try to be unavailable...

I just need to think about my life more and what makes me happy.
I was just on another thread talking about the same problem. I feel it's more important to listen and not be distracted with thoughts of how you're going to validate her. I don't think she wants your validation right now....but she does want your undivided attention on what she's saying b/c she wants a D.
Originally Posted By: sandi2
I feel it's more important to listen and not be distracted with thoughts of how you're going to validate her.



Thats a relief, I can just listen. That I can do.
Thanks again
So I am putting no pressure on her and she seems in a better mood, could be coincidence. Maybe because she's glad about making a decision on the divorce.

Am I suppost to be trying to be all mysterious and unavailable? Is that the right tactic for this stitch?
If so, how often should I accept offers to do stuff together? Every other time?
The worst part is I like doing things with her, so its going to be hard to say I can't. Luckily I am very busy this weekend with my classes.

Another thought that occurs to me is I wonder if you guys could point me to some similar threads?
So, I'm still waffling on the correct approach to this situation.
I'm understanding to put no pressure on her. Is going to counceling pressure?
I guess I'll leave that up to her. I'm going either way. Am I supposed to act like I don't want her? She already knows I want her. She knows I want to save the marriage- she probably feels like it would just be more of the same. So finalizing the divorce is probably in my favor. I always look good around her. I'm totally hitting the gym, so I look great. I'm still wondering about texting and stuff. Keep replys short, don't always respond right away? I've been letting her ask me to go out to dinner with our son. I've really let her be the instigator of us spending time together with our son. I'm still wondering about the whole be unavailable. What does that actually look like?

So I was in class all day and I texted her about dinner, "I'm available for dinner if you guys want to go out" (not typical for me to initiate) she responded that the cousins were over and they were eating. I put ok that's cool I'll see you guys later. This is the part that gives me hope. She said "ok, how was class today?"
She could have just said ok and left it there. We went back and forth a few times with me sending my texts as if it could just end. But she kept adding questions(you know typical chit chat) This feels like a good sign of at least being friends. (She pretty much hated me before I found DB, cause I was doing all the stuff I wasn't supposed to be doing) so here is to small victories, baby steps...
"So I am putting no pressure on her and she seems in a better mood, could be coincidence. Maybe because she's glad about making a decision on the divorce."

Acy, she's in a better mood b/c you agreed to the D. How did you go from "listening more" to "helping her fill out the paperwork"?

I doubt you'll be getting offers to do things together since you will be divorced from each other.
Spot on ^^^^^^^^ Sandi2!


Small hijack here:

Hey Sandi2! I 've been wanting to tell you thanks for your early posts to me. I can't say much more, contact me on the alt if you ever want to.
WenikiTiki - you sound like you are leaving the board. I have been lurking and reading as much as I can. Your story has helped me hold on to what little self I have left. Thank you for your posts.

What 'needs' did she have that you aren't meeting?
She said she didn't feel heard. Why?


You asked what being unavailable looks like.
For me: I don't answer the phone every time. I let it go to vm. I might call back later. Or I might listen to a vm and let it go.
I don't volunteer information, or talk about me.
I don't call just to talk. It's pursuing.


Our job is to listen. Not talk. This is a hard lesson that I've ignored for 8 months. It doesn't matter what we feel to them. It's about their feelings.

I worked hard on getting comfortable with responses that repeat back what they say. A good counselor does this and it draws out more from a person. A OP does fills this gap. If you can do it, then the OP isn't so special.

For example:
"I feel like I'm not being heard"
Me: "I understand, you feel that you are not being heard. What's been going on?" (I don't add anything else to that)
There is usually a clarification by the other person.
Me: "in xxxx situation, you feel like you aren't heard. I understand. (do not say "that must be (insert feeling here)" Let them get to the feeling themselves.

That moment is NOT the time for a solution. It's for you to add to your database of information of things that you might want to 180 silently.
I like reading what the men say here too, it gives me a different perspective that does have the attack from my spouse added for confusion.
Thank you Weni, I appreciate it. I've never been on what people refer to as the alt.
So it's really hard to stay upbeat around waw. She talks to OM for hours each day. She wants to go to my family's functions, like Thanksgiving and Christmas. It could be just for our sons sake. Should I let her go to those functions? Should I go out with her on weekends? Or watch tv with her and my son? All these little things. Should I still be her best friend? I really feel like just cutting off all the seeing her and talking to her as I can. My thinking is she may realize she can't go out to dinner with online boyfriend. And going out to dinner is a big deal to her. I want to just focus on my life and spend as little time with her as possible.
Originally Posted By: Acy
She wants to go to my family's functions, like Thanksgiving and Christmas. It could be just for our sons sake. Should I let her go to those functions?


It depends, how do y'all get along? If you fight a lot it'll just make everyone miserable.

Quote:
Should I go out with her on weekends? Or watch tv with her and my son?


Your sig says your separated, is that the case? If so, why would you want to go out with her or hang around and watch TV? She'll never learn to miss you if you're around each other all the time.

Quote:
Should I still be her best friend?


DR says yes, but most people around here say no. It's hard to detach and still be her best friend. And as mentioned above, she'll never learn to miss you if you're best buds.

Quote:
I really feel like just cutting off all the seeing her and talking to her as I can.


Then go with your instincts. Try it and monitor the results.

Quote:
I want to just focus on my life and spend as little time with her as possible.


Excellent plan!!
Can't seem to post on mine so will try here. Having a really hard time today, not sure why but can't stop crying. I just don't understand how he can just go on with his life like it's the normal thing to do.just cut me out of his life after just about 50years together,it's killing me ,help!
So has not being her friend and not doing things with her worked for you?
Like is she closer now?
Update.
Wife is still texting and skyping OM.
But we are still in counseling. Progress is being made.
We had a nice Christmas together with our son.
She invited me to go to her relatives Xmas
She said she was sorry she was having a hard time reopening her heart to me.
I want to tell her to quit him or I'm done. But I know that would just push her away.
I feel like a pushover though. I guess I have to wait.
I wish she was stronger. She is very emotional. My LL is physical, so this whole stich is wearing me thin. No physical touch for over a year. :-(
There is a woman who is a great match, wants me, and is fun. So tempting...
But I'm in it to win it. My wife will come around. She loves me, I know it. She just needs time to heal from the pain I have caused her.
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