Here’s the link to my last thread:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2272457&page=1 You should be able to link back to all of my other threads from there.
I wasn’t going to start another thread yet, because I really don’t have a lot to say or a lot going on. But who knows…things change around here quickly. Maybe I’ll have lots to say tomorrow. LOL
I just got back from a 5 day vacation alone in VA Beach. H didn’t want to go, and it was a free trip, so I went alone…and had a pretty good time. Got to meet up with a DB friend one night and got to walk on the beach on Saturday. I’m glad I went. It’s been a long time since I just did something that big for myself. It was worth it.
I’ve been getting back out a little more too. My friends told me I definitely seem better than I was right after BD. I’ve also been hanging out with another friend who is also a LBS. Her H left her over a year ago. She was one of my rocks when I first found out about OW, and helped me through the first few months. Her daughter is my goddaughter, so being around them is a distraction from everything that is going on. Sadly it’s also a reminder of what I don’t have – a child of my own. That’s too long a story to go into, so I digress…
H is still living at home. He’s still looking for a job, but has some prospects. As far as I know he’s still planning to move out once he finds a job and saves some money. Meanwhile, he’s still being the model husband. We’ve been on “dates” and he still says I love you every morning when I leave. Sometimes I just look at him and shake my head, and think “THIS is my life?”
I’m not sure what is going on with OW and him. I do know he’s not on his phone as much at night as he was. And yes, sometimes I do call him during the times they would normally be talking (early morning, midday, after work), and he’s almost never on the phone. (Thank you Verizon for that handy call waiting tone! LOL)
Right now I’m just taking it one day at a time. We still haven’t been intimate since our anniversary. Neither one of us have initiated, so I guess that’s no surprise. I think I’ve fallen into a rut, and haven’t exactly been following Cheryl’s advice to act like his girlfriend.
Sometimes I think what’s the point? He’s leaving anyway. Then I think are you not going to do something because you wonder what reaction you may get? Or are you finally going to be your true, authentic self and just live? So freeing…
Anyway, as I said not much going on. Maybe I do need to get a makeover or something to shake things up for me. I did go shopping for some “things” while I was on my trip. H definitely noticed too! LOL
I decided to go a different route with my thread title. Before I got married, I went through a lot of drama. WAY more than being a LBS will ever be – go figure! Anyway, there were two songs that helped me get through that time period, and that I’m going to start listening to again. They are both by Mary J. Blige. Here they are:
Good Woman Down
In my life I've seen It all
Now it's time For me To pass
On this Knowledge to you
All my sisters My troubled sisters
This is my Gift to you
Been many days
Couldn't take The pain
Felt like I should take My life away
See it everyday
In every other Young sister's face
(Young sister's face)
See'em cryin' out
Life full of doubt
Runnin' in the streets
No self esteem
Thinkin' that Used to be me
What a shame
And life Is a mutha
It's hard To sit back And see
The same thing That happened to me
Happen to you
This ain't love
But here's The love
I wanna give to you
It doesn’t Matter what They say or do
Don't let'em Get to you
Don't be afraid
You can, you can
You can breakthrough
Take what I've been through
To see that
You can't Hold a good Woman down
Went through
The same point Of givin' up
I-I felt Like I had enough
Went to the edge Of the ledge
But I didn't jump
"My Life" Will sum it up
You can't Hold a good Woman down
When I used to see
My daddy beat My mother down
Down to her feet
I used to say That ain't gon' Never be me
(Never be me)
Now look at you
Bruised up From him
Girl recognize
You're better than
Him tellin' you That he'll never hit You again
Girl don't cry
Through your changes
I will hold your hand
Use my songs As remedies
Whenever you're feelin' Down or blue
I'll be there for you
Trust And know
That I've been Where you're at
Seen the things That you can see
Lookin' at you
Resembles me
But you gotta Hold your own
Can't hold me Down
Can't hold me Down
Can't hold me Down
Can't hold me Down
Can't hold me Down
Can't hold me Down
You can't hold me
Take Me As I Am
She's been down and out
She's been wrote about
She's been talked about, constantly
She's been up and down
She's been pushed around
But they held her down, NYC
She has no regrets
She accepts the past
All these things they
helped make to make she
She's been lost and found
And she's still around
There's a reason for everything
You know I've been holdin on.
Try to make me weak,
But I still stay strong.
Put my life all up in these songs
Jus so you can feel me.
So you can get the real me
so take me as I am,
or have nothing at all.
Just take me as I am,
or have nothing at all.
Now she's older now
Yes, she's wiser now
Can't disguise her now
She don't need
No one tellin her
What to do and say
No one tellin her
Who to be
She's on solid ground
She's been lost and found
Now, she answers to G-O-D
And she's confident
This is not the end
Ask me how I know
Cause she is me.
You know I've been holdin on.
Try to make me weak,
But I still stay strong.
Put my life all up in these songs
Jus so you can feel me.
So you can get the real me
So take me as I am,
or have nothing at all.
Just take me as I am,
or have nothing at all.
So it's all or nothing at all,
All or nothing at all
Don't you know I can only be me.
(I can only be me, yeah)
So take me as I am,
or have nothing at all.
Just take me as I am,
or have nothing at all.
Take me as I am.
Take me as I am.
Said it's all or nothing at all
Said it's all or nothing at all
Just take me as I am,
or have nothing at all. (This is me)
Just take me as I am, (take me as I am)
or have nothing at all.
Just take me as I am, (take me as I am)
or have nothing, nothing at all.
Take me as I am.
I'm trying, Bug! *catwalks down the hallway* LOL
((((Ro))))
Keep that music rolling in your head!
Thanks, ces!
Journaling...
I noticed something last night and simply because I have nothing else to write about, I'm journaling about it here.
One of my H's issues (on his long list of things I did wrong) is that I hardly ever kissed or hugged him when he came home from work. It wasn't that I didn't want to. No one in my house kissed or hugged anyone until my brother came along when I was 13, so it's not something I grew up doing or felt comfortable doing really.
Anyway, I started doing this a few months ago. At first he would kind of give me this look like what are you doing? Then the look became the skeptical "Why are you doing it?" look. But he's never pulled away, and has actually kissed me first or stopped what he was doing to kiss me hello. This leads me to last night.
I come home and he's in bed asleep. He hasn't been feeling well (I think it's allergies), and was laying down. I just woke him up to let him know I was home and told him I would let him get some rest. I figured I'd kiss him later when he got up. Well, a little while later he got up to use the bathroom and get a glass of water. So he walks by me going back to lay down, stops in the hallway, turns around and comes to kiss me hello.
I almost cocked my eyebrow at him, but managed to keep my face as neutral as I possibly could. (At least I hope I did) So maybe me stepping out of my comfort zone and doing a 180 is a good thing. Even if our M ends, I will do my best to never hold affection/love from my SO again. Even if it makes me uncomfortable...because doing that is not my authentic self. I know that now. I have all of this love inside and someone's going to get it. LOL
I know the feeling Ro....I have so much love and kisses to give...someone, someday is going to be the recipient of it all!
LOL
I know the feeling Ro....I have so much love and kisses to give...someone, someday is going to be the recipient of it all!
LOL
Hey Brian!!! I know you'll find that special someone...hopefully soon!
I've got a couple of dogs that are very happy right now.
Ro that was a good message.
Giving affection is hard for me too. I always withheld it on the off chance that it would be rejected. I need to try harder. Thanks!
Some times I think H has changed his mind and really isn't going to leave. But...I know my reality is that he told me he was leaving and hasn't said otherwise. So that's what I need to believe is true.
For those of you who know my sitch, you know that my H started his A through Twitter. He was always on his phone/ipad. I honestly thought nothing of it. Until I found out about the A, and started putting things together.
So after BD, he would still be on his electronics and of course I would say something occasionally, but it just got to be so stupid that I stopped paying it any attention for the most part. I was checking the phone logs online, but that got old too, so I just stopped. I mentioned on here before that the phone/ipad usage has gone WAY down. He's been using the laptop alot, and the history is there for me to look at it if I want to. But I don't. I don't say anything to him about being on his phone.
Lately he's been volunteering to tell me who he's talking to or texting. I don't ask. So here's what happened last night: He had been typing away on his ipad for a while. I noticed but figured he was surfing the net or something. He went out of his way to say, "I'm writing down ideas about my music stuff to talk to friend X about. I just wanted you to know why I was over here doing all of this typing." I just said okay, because I didn't really care. LOL
He NEVER would have done that before. After BD, I found out just how many secrets he had. But lately, he's been an open book. He tells me things without me asking, when in fact, I rarely ask him anything, unless its related to my SS or the house. We still talk and hang out, but I don't really ask him questions about his life.
A friend remarked that my H isn't acting like someone who plans on leaving. I agreed, but said I can only go by what he's said and that is that he is in fact leaving. The friend asked if I think H is leaving because he can't forgive himself for what happened. I said that is probably true on some level, but there's nothing I can do about it. H has to work on his "stuff" just like I've worked on mine.
He NEVER would have done that before. After BD, I found out just how many secrets he had. But lately, he's been an open book. He tells me things without me asking, when in fact, I rarely ask him anything, unless its related to my SS or the house. We still talk and hang out, but I don't really ask him questions about his life.
A friend remarked that my H isn't acting like someone who plans on leaving. I agreed, but said I can only go by what he's said and that is that he is in fact leaving. The friend asked if I think H is leaving because he can't forgive himself for what happened. I said that is probably true on some level, but there's nothing I can do about it. H has to work on his "stuff" just like I've worked on mine.
I haven't read all of your sitch, but these couple of points you made seem a bit parallel to my own so I thought I'd comment.
With regards to my W, I have been complaining for years about her not answering my calls, not texting me when plans change, basically not communicating with me. About a month ago she moved out, then moved back, and I've basically stopped asking her anything. I just let her come and go as she pleases, and I plan for the kids accordingly. Since then, she's always telling me what her day looks like, when she'll be home, she'll call when things change. It's kinda weird that in order to get what I wanted, I had to stop asking and complaining about it. Sounds like the same for you to a point so I say, keep doing what works.
With regards to the second point above, I don't know that I'd worry about it one way or the other. I'd just take it day by day, enjoy the good moments, try to fill them with laughter and fun. My W really never said she was moving back in, she just kinda started bringing stuff back. We've never discussed it. I just take it day by day and that seems to be working for both of us.
Some times I think H has changed his mind and really isn't going to leave. But...I know my reality is that he told me he was leaving and hasn't said otherwise. So that's what I need to believe is true.
You're forgetting one of the big tips in DB- don't believe anything he says and only half of what he does! It sounds to me like there are some very positive baby steps happening, but you're refusing to believe them! You should be celebrating the baby steps! You're husband coming to kiss you, that's a good baby step! It should have been one of your short-term goals, and if it was you can now check it off!
So after BD, he would still be on his electronics and of course I would say something occasionally, but it just got to be so stupid that I stopped paying it any attention for the most part. I was checking the phone logs online, but that got old too, so I just stopped.
Good. Don't forget tip 10:
10. Do not spy on spouse.
It won't help your frame of mind and if he finds out it's going to push him farther away.
"I'm writing down ideas about my music stuff to talk to friend X about. I just wanted you to know why I was over here doing all of this typing." I just said okay, because I didn't really care. LOL
Oh but you should, that's another baby step in the right direction!
A friend remarked that my H isn't acting like someone who plans on leaving. I agreed, but said I can only go by what he's said and that is that he is in fact leaving.
Even if he leaves that's not the end of it. If he does leave, think of it as his chance to have the space he needs to think things through. But frankly his actions don't match his words. He may be testing you to see if you're going to try to talk him out of it. Don't take the bait, just keep playing it cool and stay detached but available.
Thanks for checking in breakdown. I'm never sure anything is "working". I'm just living my life and trying to focus on me for a change. I think he senses a changing wind, but isn't sure what to make of it.
Had a bit of an emotional night last night. Yesterday was my grandmother's b-day. She passed away in 2003. I was extremely close to my grandmother, and I miss her terribly. Especially while going through all of this. I know she'd give me some well needed words of wisdom.
As if that wasn't enough, I woke up from a nap yesterday afternoon, and overheard H giving his best friend what sounded like relationship advice over the phone. My first thought was how is he giving anyone relationship advice when his own is in pieces? And then I got mad thinking the gall...like he's a relationship expert or something? PLEASE!
I did a 30 min workout to try to get my mind back in a good space, and it helped some. But then I watched Oprah's Lifeclass. The topic was Terrible Things Women Do to Each Other. Watching that brought up some old stuff along with some new stuff, so I ended up having a good cry. But it definitely left me in some kind of mood.
I think H could tell something was up, but he just left me alone, Thank God. Feeling a little better today. I hate that I let that insignificant thing derail me. Hasn't happened in a while. Need to figure out how to not let it happen again.
We're supposed to go see a movie tonight, and he's supposed to cook burgers for dinner.
Hang in there Ro. My W and I both had wonderful grandmothers, so I know how you feel. It's sad, but I can always imagine my GM telling me "Don't be moping about me, I had a good life. Now how about you get your head on straight and focus on what's important!" She might call me 4 different names before she said "BD" but she'd eventually get it
Enjoy the movie....and smile...it helps
Hope you have a good week Ro. Don't let the slip in attitude take you down. Its part of being human. Recognize it, learn from it and move on. Just like you said, its a lot less frequent than it use to be but I can't imagine any of us will ever be fully free of a backslide once in a while.
What movie are you going to see?
Did you share how you were feeling with H?
Hang in there Ro. My W and I both had wonderful grandmothers, so I know how you feel. It's sad, but I can always imagine my GM telling me "Don't be moping about me, I had a good life. Now how about you get your head on straight and focus on what's important!" She might call me 4 different names before she said "BD" but she'd eventually get it
Enjoy the movie....and smile...it helps
LOL! My grandmother used to call my sis and I everybody else's name first. She'd get to us at like #5 or #6. LOL
Thanks for your post. My grandmother "Muh" would also say the same thing. It made me smile just thinking about it.
Hope you have a good week Ro. Don't let the slip in attitude take you down. Its part of being human. Recognize it, learn from it and move on. Just like you said, its a lot less frequent than it use to be but I can't imagine any of us will ever be fully free of a backslide once in a while.
What movie are you going to see?
Thanks for checking in ces. You know I have a problem being a regular person. I put way too much pressure on myself to be happy and all that, when in fact, I wasn't most of the time. I'm learning it's okay to be sad sometimes. Just sit with it, figure out why, and move on.
Did you share how you were feeling with H?
Ha! You know me too well. Of course I didn't say a word. Just sat with my sadness by myself. I almost went to him once but told myself I didn't want his "fake" pity or hugs. Yeah, I know. Sunday was a BAD day. Thinking back on it, I wish I had though. I keep so much to myself. That is one of his issues with me (although, he does the same thing). It's getting old carrying all this stuff around. I've let go of some, but not all. Just means, there's still work to do.
Btw, we both ended up taking naps, so we missed the movie, and we didn't see anyting OnDemand that we liked. But...I found 4 movie tickets I had misplaced this morning, so now we can go see 2 free movies. So that worked out!
Hang in there Ro. My W and I both had wonderful grandmothers, so I know how you feel. It's sad, but I can always imagine my GM telling me "Don't be moping about me, I had a good life. Now how about you get your head on straight and focus on what's important!" She might call me 4 different names before she said "BD" but she'd eventually get it
Enjoy the movie....and smile...it helps
LOL! My grandmother used to call my sis and I everybody else's name first. She'd get to us at like #5 or #6. LOL
Thanks for your post. My grandmother "Muh" would also say the same thing. It made me smile just thinking about it.
Hope you have a good week Ro. Don't let the slip in attitude take you down. Its part of being human. Recognize it, learn from it and move on. Just like you said, its a lot less frequent than it use to be but I can't imagine any of us will ever be fully free of a backslide once in a while.
What movie are you going to see?
Thanks for checking in ces. You know I have a problem being a regular person. I put way too much pressure on myself to be happy and all that, when in fact, I wasn't most of the time. I'm learning it's okay to be sad sometimes. Just sit with it, figure out why, and move on.
Did you share how you were feeling with H?
Ha! You know me too well. Of course I didn't say a word. Just sat with my sadness by myself. I almost went to him once but told myself I didn't want his "fake" pity or hugs. Yeah, I know. Sunday was a BAD day. Thinking back on it, I wish I had though. I keep so much to myself. That is one of his issues with me (although, he does the same thing). It's getting old carrying all this stuff around. I've let go of some, but not all. Just means, there's still work to do.
Btw, we both ended up taking naps, so we missed the movie, and we didn't see anyting OnDemand that we liked. But...I found 4 movie tickets I had misplaced this morning, so now we can go see 2 free movies. So that worked out!
Also, my car got side-swiped on Friday night. I had an appointment with the insurance adjuster this morning. H went with me and handled most of it. Normally, I would have done most of the talking and giving of information. Today I chose to step back and let him lead. He also had to move a bunch of stuff out of my trunk to his car so that the body shop could take a further look at the damage.
I know he didn't have to do any of that given our situation, and I would like to do something to say thank you to him. This is something I used to do all the time when we first started dating...showing appreciation. Regardless of the state of our sitch, I'd like to start doing that again. I know I can't do but so much, otherwise it'll probably send him running for the castle, but I'd like to do something.
Maybe grab his favorite dessert on the way home? Suggestions?
Sorry I missed this-what did you do? What is his love language.
Maybe you should melt his barrel...
Sorry I missed this-what did you do? What is his love language.
Maybe you should melt his barrel...
Traffic was so bad on the way home that I stopped and grabbed dinner for us at this greasy spoon we like. I was dead tired when I got home, so there was no barrel melting. LOL Hopefully soon though. I'm getting crotchedy (is that even a word? LOL) about the lack of ML. LOL
You know, I know what I "think" his love language is. We did the quiz during pre-marital counseling and something like it when we went to marriage counseling. His answers surprised me both times. Maybe I'll look the quiz up online today and see what I can figure out.
Tonight starts football season in our house - Dallas vs. Giants. H is a Cowboys fan. Football was a heated issue in our house. H would watch footbal (or ESPN) all day every day if he could. I didn't know this before he moved in, and didn't handle it well when he wanted to spend every Sunday and whatever weekday in the house watching football. He brought this up in counseling, and I did make an effort to start watching with him. He even said after BD that he knew I was making an effort to spend time with him doing something he liked, but he still wanted out. I actually kinda like watching it now, so I just do it because I want to.
Anyway, I'm thinking pizza & wings tonight. Maybe some dessert. He won't be expecting it, so that will be a nice surprise.
Make it a celebration of the start of FB season, get out the cheerleading outfit!
Make it a celebration of the start of FB season, get out the cheerleading outfit!
I almost died laughing! I don't have a cheerleading outfit. :-( But I can at least get the pom poms. *wiggles eyebrows* LOLOL
Football, pizza, wings and pom poms!? Can someone please send my W this idea?!
I just giggled to myself thinking of my H's reaction to the pom poms. LOLOL
Now picture him while explaining the concept of "melting the barrel"....
Short skirt, tight v-neck sweater, pom-poms, be creative!
Short skirt, tight v-neck sweater, pom-poms, be creative!
Lord, Bug, that might be overload. LOL But it might just work...
It's been a long, emotional evening in my household. It started out with me asking H questions about OW (I know! I know! But please keep reading)
Things I learned:
-He apologize several times for hurting me. He's said it before, and this is the first time I actually believe him. Before, I felt like it was more to make him feel better about everything.
-He hasn't seen her in months (His words were: I can't even remember the last time. HMMMM OK)
-They still talk, but not sure how much. On Twitter, its initiated mostly by her, according to him. He says he can't control what she posts. He acts like he doesn't want to talk about her at all. Like he wishes she didn't exist.
-He still feels very hurt from things I've done, although he acknowledged that things are better now (maybe justfying why leaving is still a good idea?)
-He wishes he had been more vocal earlier on in our M. I agreed.
-He still is planning on leaving, although he never came out and said it tonight. He still hasn't found another job yet, so I guess that's the hold up.
-He thinks SS will be fine when we tell him. (His words: SS won't crumble when we tell him. I said (while giving him a incredulous look) maybe not, but it's not going to be an ordinary day either.)
-Oh and he still loves me and wants to be my friend. SMH
There were lots of tears on both sides. A lot more from me as this conversation brought up some stuff I hadn't dealt with individually. Once I digest it all, I'll be back to discuss.
He held me while I cried, then offered to iron my work clothes. *shrug*
There's a lot of pain on his side that I think he needs to let out, but won't. He says he thinks about our sitch a lot and how he has hurt me. Not sure if that's good or bad. He says this isn't how he was raised and he's ashamed about what he's done.
I think he really feels we can't get over this. Plus, he says that's not the reason he's leaving. I told him if that's the case, it would have been better for him to pack a bag and just leave, rather than cheat.
So I have a decision to make: Do I stop DBing and give up on my M completely, or do I continue to DB, but step WAY back? My only thought about that is that he will see that as more of the same behavior from before: no talking, not listening, no affection, etc. I think I've been doing pretty good with DBing even though my efforts haven't delivered much progress on th M side of things.
I'm really feeling like there is no hope, so #1 is looking like the safest option for my heart right now.
(((((((RORO))))))))
Somewhere out there is your quarterback just waiting for you turn up with those pompoms. Maybe it's your H and he's just in spring training!
I am not the best to advise being someone who has given up. But maybe it's more of a case of beginners mind. The only options aren't to continue on course or to give up. As you say you could step WAY back. You could just focus on you, becoming the woman you want to be etc, leaving the door open but not trying to lead him through it.
I'm losing my own analogy here but I would just say that there are several inbetweens.
There's a lot of pain on his side that I think he needs to let out, but won't. He says he thinks about our sitch a lot and how he has hurt me
awww this...he needs to forgive himself. He must be putting himself through hell. He probably feels like he doesn't deserve you.
Big Hugs RoRo!!!
Thanks Brit for your post! I feel like I have spent these last 8 months becoming the woman I want to be (mostly anyway - after last night, I realize I have more stuff to work on). I don't plan on stopping that now.
I'm just not sure what to do DB-wise from here. Maybe I need to use my last call to my DB coach?
Sorry, Ro. Sometimes these converations need to happen to create movement in our lives. At least that's how it worked for me.
So what do you want?
I'm really feeling like there is no hope, so #1 is looking like the safest option for my heart right now.
This last statement caught my eye. I may be off-base on this but as you state above, the lack of hope is a "feeling" and you have figured out by now that feelings change; they ebb, they flow, they alter as time moves on.
As far as "safe" Is there really safety in in loving someone? Is there really any guarantees? The hardest part to healing sometimes is that someone has to risk giving up their safety to love unconditionally.
I'm not there every day to see the interactions but from what you've put on this board, what you have done has had an impact whether you see it or not. The OW is now an after-thought and a regret to your H. You H is being kind and considerate to you. Your H has acknowledge the changes in you.
You decide when its over. And that is by all means your choice. Just be sure of what you want. Loving someone is a risk. And you are absolutely at risk of having your heart-broken again if he does leave. But you also have the chance of reconciliation and that won't come without taking a risk. They just go together. Every great success was achieved because someone risked putting themselves out there.
You're a good woman and I have not doubt that whatever happens, you will not stay down!
(((Ro))) Thought you were quiet this weekend.
ces is right, only we know when we're done and what that looks like.
Here's where I am: I'm pretty happy with myself, I no longer feel like I MUST SAVE MY MARRIAGE! I'd like for my H to reconsider his position but if he doesn't, there's a big, wide world out there. So right now, I'm friendly, joking, cheerful but as I said in a previous post on my thread-time's a wastin'.
Any parallels with where you are? I think the biggest problem for me is getting rid of the I shoulds and just living my life.
Thanks Ces & Bug for checking in on me.
I'm not sure what I want. I haven't felt like this in a while. I just wonder why I'm still doing this when he's adamant about leaving. Risking my heart seems like a mute point.
Bug, I see what you're saying. I haven't felt like I HAVE to save my marriage in a few months. Would I like to? I'd be lying if I said no. I was doing so good. Seems like every time I open my mouth, I'm the one that ends up feeling bad. I need to figure out why. At this point, nothing H says should really make a difference in what I'm doing. But it does, and I don't like it.
How did I go from melting barrels to this? SMH
(((Ro)))
So sorry about your low last night, but sometimes we need to let out what's been bottled up inside. Sometimes we can control how we release it, and sometimes we can't.
Based on you threading waters for the past few months, I assume that you still want your H back, that you would work on forgiving him, and would want to work towards a new and better R. Your H still seems to struggle with shame and forgiveness. Did you at any point say that despite all that's happened that at some point he needs to forgive himself for what he's done, and he would need to forgive you for the "grief" you've caused him. And did you tell him (if that is how you feel) that you are working on forgiveness yourself, forgiving him for the choices he's made and yourself for the pain you caused him?
I could be completely off base, but I feel like your H is the type of person who would need affirmation - not saying that what he did was ok, but telling him that what's done is done, and that in order to move on one needs to forgive....whether he would move on with you or without you.
((((((((((Ro)))))))))))
Yes, those conversations are still so painful.. but I would guess that you will bounce back quicker now than before.
and you don't need to decide anything this moment. you can wait for the feelings to ebb to see where you are at..
it does sound like he must forgive himself if he can..
((((((((((((((( )))))))))))))))))
Based on you threading waters for the past few months, I assume that you still want your H back, that you would work on forgiving him, and would want to work towards a new and better R. Your H still seems to struggle with shame and forgiveness. Did you at any point say that despite all that's happened that at some point he needs to forgive himself for what he's done, and he would need to forgive you for the "grief" you've caused him. And did you tell him (if that is how you feel) that you are working on forgiveness yourself, forgiving him for the choices he's made and yourself for the pain you caused him?
No, we've never talked about him forgiving himself or me for that matter. It came up a little last night, but he wouldn't really talk about it. I told him last night that working to forgive him has been one of the hardest things, but I do, even though some days it's hard to do. I told him that I was sorry I had hurt him so bad that he felt like he had to walk away.
I could be completely off base, but I feel like your H is the type of person who would need affirmation - not saying that what he did was ok, but telling him that what's done is done, and that in order to move on one needs to forgive....whether he would move on with you or without you.
I think you are right about the affirmation, but I'm not even sure where to start. I've been consistent in my changes, and he sees that. But how do I bring this up without having another night like last night? I told him I could see the hurt and pain in his eyes when I look at him. I know its not all because of me, but I do think he believes it starts with me.
((((((((((Ro)))))))))))
Yes, those conversations are still so painful.. but I would guess that you will bounce back quicker now than before.
and you don't need to decide anything this moment. you can wait for the feelings to ebb to see where you are at..
it does sound like he must forgive himself if he can..
((((((((((((((( )))))))))))))))))
I'm not sure how well I'm bouncing back. I slept like 2 hours last night and feel sick to my stomach. I know I need to sit with everything for at least a couple of days.
Yes, see my post to Nhmom about him forgiving himself. Maybe he is waiting on some kind of affirmation from me? I'm just not sure what that would be.
Stay still RoRo - this is just one of those crossroads - and if you trust your intuition and wait for it to tell you what you need to do or say, the right thing will come to you right in the moment.
but if you continue to worry - you're blocking it. so just relax - there's no urgency or hurry, don't you think?
zig
Stay still RoRo - this is just one of those crossroads - and if you trust your intuition and wait for it to tell you what you need to do or say, the right thing will come to you right in the moment.
but if you continue to worry - you're blocking it. so just relax - there's no urgency or hurry, don't you think?
zig
You're right, zig. There is no hurry. Just wish I felt comfortable trusting my intuition. Ever since the BD, I've second guessed everything in my life since H and I got together.
I took today off since I was in no condition to drive 45 mins to an hour on no sleep. I got up to call into work, and stayed on the couch.
H got up to go to the bathroom, and asked me in sort of a distressed voice if I had slept out here. I just shook my head no. He went back in the room. He's come out twice since, and seems to be tiptoeing around here like he thinks I'm on the edge. I told him he was welcome to come watch TV in the room if he wanted to. He said he was but hasn't come out of the room yet.
I think he thinks because I was on the couch, I don't want to be around him. (The couch was his go to place to sleep after an argument) I'm thinking about this WAY too much, and most definitely mindreading, but I'm positive this is what he's thinking.
H got up to go to the bathroom, and asked me in sort of a distressed voice if I had slept out here..... He's come out twice since, and seems to be tiptoeing around here
can you see it RoRo? not what you're thinking he might be feelling but the actions themselves?
it's the distanced/pursuer thing going on here.
lean back and keep leaning back away from him..
look at what just went down - beyond the emotional stuff and tears and tenderness.he basically told you that he's leaving anyway - you keep being there for him, he keeps leaving
not saying to do anything negative or call him on anything. just lean away from him - don't give him all that much right now - then, when you sense it's right - you can acknowledge his stuff some more. and that includes not saying things like you can watch tv in here - basically don't take care of even the smallest needs. it's not you getting back at him - it's you pulling the blanket around you and taking care of YOU
do the feral cat thing... but with the attitude that "I'm feeding myself BEFORE I fee you!"
have a good rest - you deserve it - this emotional stuff is like 5 nights of no sleep, not one. glad you did the sensible thing and not drive
((((((( ))))))
zig
Hey Brian! I'll let you know when I figure it out.
Zig, I don't see it as distancer/pursuer. Not in the way everyone talks about here. Others have mentioned that as well.
In all honesty, it's me that's distancing (and always have been). He's the one in the kitchen already cooking dinner for tonight. He's the one that has been doing the cooking, cleaning, laundry, etc. It's like a little kid doing stuff so Mommy will be proud. He basically said that last night.
Maybe I'm missing something.
That emotional stuff does take it out of you. Take care of yourself. big hugs!
Ro...If you still want you marriage, fight for it. He said himself things have been getting better. He hasn't left yet so there is still time. You seem to be doing mostly the right things. It just comes down to how much fight do you have left?
Ro...If you still want you marriage, fight for it. He said himself things have been getting better. He hasn't left yet so there is still time. You seem to be doing mostly the right things. It just comes down to how much fight do you have left?
Brian, I swear I wish I could clone you sometimes. LOL Funny how you always pop up in my thread during these times.
Honestly, I ask myself that question every day. Most days I'm fine. Days like today, not so much.
I don't know if the world could do with more then one of me! One is too much! lol
Well, for days like today, that is what we are here for...to support you, listen, and to give you unconditional love!
It's like a little kid doing stuff so Mommy will be proud. He basically said that last night.
Maybe I'm missing something.okay - i think i see it a bit differently now after you described that.
where the hell is KD
when we need him - I think he would have picked up on this right away
I'll give it a shot, and warning - i am just throwing this out there - and it's the amateur version compared to what KD would write. maybe he'll chime in later
I think it's the double bind at play here
He puts you in this position of being mommy by doing all this stuff, and which grown man wants to feel like that in his romantic relationship, right?
but your allowing him to let him play this, is what allows him to keep you both in the double bind. and then he gets to think - why would i want to be with RoRo if she feels like mom. of course i love mom, and so i can tell RoRo that i love her, but I don't have to stay because an adult man does NOT stay with his mom. (one of the significant symptoms of being in a double bind is a feeling of helplessness, that you can't even see what is really going on in the dynamics)
Your first question will be - how do I allow it?
well, that's the problem with the double bind, it's really difficult to see your own role in how you keep it there.
As KD explained to me, the only way out of a double bind is to step right out of it.
Find the 180 here - for example - he's cooking dinner tonight already? call a friend and go out to dinner.
Use ways to keep yourself out of the double bind. yes you may hurt his feelings and he'll play that card big time, especially now after your most recent talk - he has GOT to keep you in this position in order to keep on leaving. he'll probably throw the book at you for being so unappreciative after all he did to cook dinner. you can just say gently that you had no idea he was doing it for you, how sweet of him. maybe YOU could cook him dinner tomorrow night?
take that role back - where he's not doing stuff only for you, but that it becomes equal and you do it equally for each other.
and then lead - like KD said to me - bring out the good stuff in him - and believe me that's not him doing the laundry!
lead him towards doing the things that he is genuinely good at as an independent person. find out what his strengths are and guide him in that direction and validate every little thing he does in that direction. and stop validating anything he does which makes him feel as if he's pleasing mommy.
if he had big complaints about the things YOU didn't let him do - allow him to do those and nudge him in that direction. as an eg. - the one i'm focusing now on with my h: he was really bitter that i controlled the parenting. so now, i've completely stepped back and insist that he takes over and leads the way. he's reluctant when it comes up each time, but after, i can see he is much more confident about doing it
this is a different perspective - and when KD presented it to me a while ago, it was really difficult for me to grasp. it's taken me a while, but now i can apply it and recognize it much more easily
hope this helps
zig
ps.
just to make it more clear - for a starting point - start noticing which are the things he does that make him feel like he is "pleasing mommy". then find the 180 there - the 180 is not a direct reproach against him or to make him feel bad - you have to find a way to do it where it is neutral and more of your stepping away from it, if that makes sense.
if you have been showing a lot of appreciation for those things that he does in an effort to validate him - show it in another way - do it yourself, first. then you take away that option in a neutral way and make the space to lead him towards more healthy actions for himself
zig
Maybe I didn't write it quite right. He didn't say he was trying to please Mommy. He said he would sit and think of ways to make me happy and nothing ever worked. I think I associated that with ME trying to please my own mother. And that's one of the things that came up last night.
I feel like a failure for not being able to fix this. Which brings up feelings of never being able to do anything right according to my mother. Like I said last night was a long night.
I do think there may be some of what you're saying going on. I'll have read your post again and think about it some more.
Were you in my IC appt today, similar words were coming out of my mouth.
In general, what types of things will make your H feel that he's done well? Do certain words do it? Is he looking for actions? What about in work situations? What makes him feel good about himself?
My observation about men in general would be that they need to be praised, even for the littlest things (even if they don't admit it).
My H used to say that he felt that he couldn't make me happy. For me, I think it had a lot to do with my facial expression, and also not acknowledging and thanking him for the "acts of service" that he apparently did to make me happy (which also happens to be my 2nd LL).
Were you in my IC appt today, similar words were coming out of my mouth.
You know we're soul sisters. :-)
In general, what types of things will make your H feel that he's done well? Do certain words do it? Is he looking for actions? What about in work situations? What makes him feel good about himself?
My observation about men in general would be that they need to be praised, even for the littlest things (even if they don't admit it).
My H used to say that he felt that he couldn't make me happy. For me, I think it had a lot to do with my facial expression, and also not acknowledging and thanking him for the "acts of service" that he apparently did to make me happy (which also happens to be my 2nd LL).
I think words of affirmation are #1 on his list. He used to love getting cards and letters from me. I "think" he feels good when people notice his efforts and tell him so.
That last paragraph could have been said by my H word for word. But he's in so much "pain" that I think any words of affirmation now are just scratching the surface.
I stayed mostly to myself today. Fought several urges to go to H to get comfort in his arms. H$LL, I'm still fighting that feeling. I know he would try to comfort me, just like he tried to do last night when I was a hysterical mess. He hasn't seen me like that very often. Probably never. Not sure I like being so vulnerable in front of him right now.
Spent a lot of time today thinking...about things my H said last night, about how much pain we are both in, about things that came up for me last night, and about everything you guys wrote today. I really don't know what my next steps should be. Guess I just need to get back to the basics and just put one foot in front of the other.
hi RoRo
He said he would sit and think of ways to make me happy and nothing ever worked
RoRo - that was me in a nutshell too. my h fell over himself trying to do everything that i wanted - and he never got back from me what HE needed.
but what i see now is that he pleased me at the expense of himself - until he was so used up he couldn't do it any longer. his most repeated words since BD have been "i have to take care of myself, i spent too long taking care of you"
i think it's still the double bind playing on some level. so h is pleasing you at the expense of taking care of himself - and he doesn't get any satisfaction from it no matter how pleased you are, because it's not fulfilling something in him that he really needs - and that something is him growing in self awareness and dealing with his own issues that make him unhappy.
he thinks that you are the cause of his unhappiness because he can't do enough to please you, but it's actually just a projection of not being able to be happy himself.
my h would do everything i asked for and more - but no matter how profusely i said thanks to him he never felt that i appreciated it. NOW i understand why - i didn't show him appreciation in HIS love language - i did it in mine.
so i think doing the 180's applies here still. and you need to find the LL that he can hear your appreciation in. maybe you have to try each of the 5 out one at a time for a few weeks each to see if any of them makes the difference.
either way - you need to change the dynamic between you two over all the things he does for you
but more importantly than that:
I feel like a failure for not being able to fix this. Which brings up feelings of never being able to do anything right according to my mother
this is more disturbing to me - are you still in fixer mode? how much do you believe that you have truly resolved your own inner issues, from a long time ago?
the dynamics and the patterns between the 2 of you cannot truly change until one person takes the real steps. if you have unresolved issues - you need to address them, because it will totally change your emotional mindset, and then you can change the dynamics between the 2 of you. and once you change your energy, the pattern has to shift
it's hard to think about so much especially when you are so tired. maybe taking a coupel of days off to mull over it and let it go through you will help a lot.
hope you feel a lot better soon
(((((( )))))))
zig
my h would do everything i asked for and more - but no matter how profusely i said thanks to him he never felt that i appreciated it. NOW i understand why - i didn't show him appreciation in HIS love language - i did it in mine.
so i think doing the 180's applies here still. and you need to find the LL that he can hear your appreciation in. maybe you have to try each of the 5 out one at a time for a few weeks each to see if any of them makes the difference.
This made me pause. I think you are right that I've been showing him affirmation/appreciation in my LL instead of his. I have the 5 LL downloaded to my Nook. Guess that's my required reading for this week.
I feel like a failure for not being able to fix this. Which brings up feelings of never being able to do anything right according to my mother
this is more disturbing to me - are you still in fixer mode? how much do you believe that you have truly resolved your own inner issues, from a long time ago?
the dynamics and the patterns between the 2 of you cannot truly change until one person takes the real steps. if you have unresolved issues - you need to address them, because it will totally change your emotional mindset, and then you can change the dynamics between the 2 of you. and once you change your energy, the pattern has to shift
(((((( )))))))
zig
I've been really trying to stay away from the fixer role. Because that's where I live. H even said so last night. But please don't be disturbed. It really just boils down to mother issues. I spent a year in therapy working through most of them. I am better than I used to be, but things still come up. I spent every day for the first 18 years of my life trying to be good enough for my mother. When I got married, the need to be perfect was transferred there. Little did I know that by doing that I was actually shutting my H out. And here we are as a result.
(((((((((((RoRo))))))))))))
It is hard to be aware of that stuff when it is happening.. I did the same, shut my W out in ways without realizing it. Please remind yourself that you did your best, if you had known differently, you would have done it. I think Ms bring out those issues for healing... unfortunately, we live in a society that does not understand and support this process.
Little did I know that by doing that I was actually shutting my H out. And here we are as a result.
yes that's what i've spent this year uncovering - all the unresolved issues within myself that made me shut myself away from everyone else.
i really believe the key to all of this is to make ourselves emotionally healthy and whole. anything within us that is unresolved tends to reflect in the relationship, because we are an integral part of how the patterns work
so if you have the urge to "fix" like all of us do - keep fixing yourself. be relentless in that pursuit, make it your first priority
from what you wrote, is it possible that you are focusing on your mother and the issues you had with her? maybe you could put her aside and see what is behind your having needed to be so perfect? could it be she was just the trigger in some way?
my need to be perfect - came up when s was born big-time - and i transformed into an OC monster overnight. everything had to be just right. you know it's funny, but i think that the dynamics between h and myself brought that out. after he moved out it became so much easier not to be that. so i wonder if 2 people actually bring out certain aspects of each others character over time
well enough for tonight - you have a lot to mull over and maybe taking a mental break from it would be better than anything else
take care RoRo
zig
(((((((((((RoRo))))))))))))
It is hard to be aware of that stuff when it is happening.. I did the same, shut my W out in ways without realizing it. Please remind yourself that you did your best, if you had known differently, you would have done it. I think Ms bring out those issues for healing... unfortunately, we live in a society that does not understand and support this process.
Thanks for stopping by ng! There are many things I wished I had known before. I can say, though, that the changes I have made show me that when you know better, you do better.
Zig, it's hard to put my mother to the side when the reason I feel this way is because she has compared me to my twin sister every day of my life. And I mean literally compared EVERYTHING, from report cards, spelling bee results, down to how straight my legs were doing a cartwheel. Our relationship is much better than it used to be, but some of the underlying feelings for me still come up.
That must have been really really hard for you RoRo, when you were a child and all those years.{{{{{{{ }}}}}}} I went through the same with my brother - but it was our grandmother not my mom
what about your twin sister - what is your relationship with her? is it warm and close and loving?
I can say, though, that the changes I have made show me that when you know better, you do better.
Love that! So true!
This growth stuff can be mighty painful.. but you know what, I do not think I would trade it. Much as I fight this place I am in w/ W, in my heart I know this is where I need to be for me.
That must have been really really hard for you RoRo, when you were a child and all those years.{{{{{{{ }}}}}}} I went through the same with my brother - but it was our grandmother not my mom
what about your twin sister - what is your relationship with her? is it warm and close and loving?
I love my sister to death. We've had some rough spots but are ok now. Funny thing is that she remembers our childhood completely different than I do.
I can say, though, that the changes I have made show me that when you know better, you do better.
Love that! So true!
This growth stuff can be mighty painful.. but you know what, I do not think I would trade it. Much as I fight this place I am in w/ W, in my heart I know this is where I need to be for me.
Ditto.
Ro, I think this is just another step in the process. These points come along and we are given the opportunity to peel back another layer (by the time this is over I hope I've peeled off enough to be the 120# I've always wanted to be!)
You are so much farther along than even 6 months ago. You see that don't you?
I think your H, like most of the spouses here has his own stuff he's sifting through, trying to make sense of.
Will he figure it out? Who knows?
Is it worth waiting longer to see?
Only you know that.
You are so much farther along than even 6 months ago. You see that don't you?
I don't feel like it. The last time we had a R conversation I bounced back pretty fast. This time some of my own stuff came up and it has me floundering again. I know I'll work through it, but I'm having a hard time right now.
I think your H, like most of the spouses here has his own stuff he's sifting through, trying to make sense of.
Will he figure it out? Who knows?
Is it worth waiting longer to see?
Only you know that.
That's the million dollar question. I once thought I wasn't going to wait 4 months, and now here I am 8 months in. I thought there was some progress (in the M - I know I've made my own progress), but there really wasn't in all that time. I'm wondering what more time would do that 8 months hasn't.
I get it but back in Jan-Feb you would have been all over the place, now you're not so reactive. That's great progress.
Wait for your mojo to come back and see where you are.
And the saga continues. I got the following "apology" FB message from OW today:
Good morning..
This isn't message to get you all upset..nor is this a public service announcement. however, because of who I am you deserve an apology from me, even though your issue with me isn't because of me. So I sincerely apologize for any ill feelings or thoughts that you have about me. That is all have a good day.
I have already been advised by friends not to respond, although its taking everything in me not to. I also haven't told my H, and probably won't.
Is she crazy or what?
OMG.... that is the craziest apology I have ever read! I don't even know what to say..
She is apologizing for you having ill feelings or thoughts about her.. and that your issue w/ her isn't about her... WTH?
I do not think it is possible to respond to as it does not make any sense.
although i am sure that it isn't a public service announcement bc they tend to make sense.
you can't make this stuff up... CRAZY.
Tell me about it ng. I think she really believes she is the "wronged" one here. I think she said the public service announcement thing because she didn't want me to post about it on Twitter or FB. She of course would be embarrassed about it. I'll have my say soon enough. I'm going to chill...for now.
I spent some time last night thinking about the purpose of OW's message to me. The Christian side of me wants to believe that she is trying to get her own life right and really meant it. The human side of me thinks this is a part of her game and envisions doing things I shouldn't put in writing.
I woke up this morning still fuming thinking about the nerve of her to send me that message. I won't respond, but this is some crazy ish! I think she really might be nuts!
Don't give her any more of your mental real estate.
yes that is some crazy sh*** but it is also an opportunity for you to showcase to yourself and the world the grace and strength you possess. use it to be strong and proud of yourself. (((((((( )))))))))
You guys are right. I need to stop thinking about it. I am better than all this. Time to move on...
Interesting...I agree you should waste too much time on it or respond.
Optimistically, she might be apologizing for the affair...and hopefully that means its in the past. Or, she's trying to get under your skin because it isn't going well. But, I wouldn't analyze it more than you have.
Are you going to show the note to H? I probably would if it was me...I'd want to see his reaction and also show him what she said. I'd be nice about it and simply show it to him...but maybe that's too hard to do and if you are making progress with him maybe it isn't worth any risk. I just think putting it out in the open might help.
Hang in there...you are creating your own path and one where you won't have any regrets over not trying!
I meant shouldn't respond!!
Many of you guys are going to be incredible relationship partners, to yourself, to either your spouse or the new love of your choosing!
Are you going to show the note to H? I probably would if it was me...I'd want to see his reaction and also show him what she said. I'd be nice about it and simply show it to him...but maybe that's too hard to do and if you are making progress with him maybe it isn't worth any risk. I just think putting it out in the open might help.
Hang in there...you are creating your own path and one where you won't have any regrets over not trying!
Thanks for stopping by Nblost!
I have been told not to show the message to my H. I will say I'd be interested to see how he reacts too. I think it could go both ways: he's mad that she contacted me, or he gets mad at me for bringing her up in conversation yet again.
hi Ro - i agree with you - that note is a great opportunity to practice letting go.
it represents too many negatives for your h and you. more important to focus on the positives and keep introducing more positive things
how are you? hope that you are feeling alot better.
(((( )))
zig
Hey Ro, hope you have a good day today. Find something good to focus on and enjoy the day. (((Ro)))
Thanks zig and ces for checking in me. I'm slowly coming out of my funk of the past couple of days.
I think I need to make a new positives list. Feeling like I'm coming around the final curve to the end, so maybe I need to focus on what's going right as far as DBing is concerned.
1. I'm facing more of my own issues. Its hard but necessary.
2. I'm still working out and losing weight!
3. My H has not moved out yet. (Lately its felt like more of a positive than in the beginning)
4. H is helping out more around the house. (His guilt is probably playing a big part in all this.)
That's about all I can come up with right now. LOL
Many of you guys are going to be incredible relationship partners, to yourself, to either your spouse or the new love of your choosing!
I just saw this...
THANKS! I plan on one day truly feeling like I have the love of my life with H or someone else. Life is too short not too!
Journaling...
So the H of the couple we always have the celebration dinners with (birthdays, V-Day, holidays, etc) invited us to a b-day celebration for his wife on the 22nd. We went to the H's b-day celebration last month. I've been leaving it up to H whether we go or not. My thought process was if he says no, then I can always go by myself.
So I asked H about it yesterday and there was a beat of silence on the phone. I told him he didn't have to go if he didn't want to. I just needed to let them know who would be coming. He mentioned that his friends were trying to get together to discuss some music stuff that weekend, but he won't have any money then (he won't start getting his unemployment until the week after that). Plus he wants to see who is really going to commit to showing up.
I said so do you want to go? He says yeah we can go. I told him at least its at one of our favorite restaurants. He said yeah, but besides that, they are good people. (This caught me off guard because it is something normal H would say, not the stranger living in my house. He hasn't really interacted with very many of our friends in the last year. I think he thinks they can see the adultery on him or something. SMH)
I figured he'd say no since we had just hung out with them a month ago. We've seen them more since BD than all of last year. I like hanging with them, but I leave our outings sad that H and I are going through what we are. I know they've had their own blended family issues, but they have both been divorced and are Christian and are determined to make the M work. I haven't told my girlfriend anything about my situation, although I know she went through something similiar in her first marriage.
On another note, H was playing slow/love songs last night. He's done this before when he and OW have been on the outs (he didn't know that I knew that was why). A girlfriend suggested I start playing some Pink or some other I-am-woman-hear-me-roar song, so I played Blow Me (A Kiss). Suddenly the music stopped, and the TV was on. LOL It was really funny to me.