Good day! This is my first post on any forum, ever!
Let me introduce myself and share a bit of my story:
Me - In process of being a "reformed" WAW age 36
Him - age 45 and unfortunately, has new girlfriend
We were together 8.5 years and I moved out on what would have been our 7th anniversary: Jan 1 2012
No children
I first told him I was unhappy with our relationship in Nov 2010. After he asked and I'm not sure I would have ever told him. I was already thinking about leaving and wasn't sure how or when I would tell him. It always seemed like there was a reason NOT to...
I attempted to leave once in June 2011, I even got my own car. However, we decided to try to work things out - but unfortunately, without any professional help.
And then I decided to "walk away" Dec 11, 2011 and I moved out a few weeks later.
At first I said I needed a break, I couldn't see anything but the "fog" anymore. We were living two very separate lives. Sharing a bed, but not a life and definitely not a marriage.
8 months have gone by since that time - he has asked at least twice if I would change my mind. The first time, I replied that I wasn't sure yet. And second time, I still wasn't sure, but I knew I couldn't let him wait for me any longer. I had to let him go. It wasn't fair to keep him in the wings...and I knew I wasn't ready for what he wanted.
Well, he got the closure he needed and quickly found himself in a new relationship. Nothing he planned, it just happened as soon as he got the closure he needed.
Ironically, it was while he was exploring his new relationship that I started to clear some of my "fog". I was alone - really alone - on vacation and had lots of time to think, reflect and explore my feelings.
I didn't know about his new relationship at first. But I quickly figured it out (Facebook is a funny thing) then he told me about a week or so later. I was truly happy for him! All I ever wanted in all our time together was for him to be happy!
Then there was a message back & forth about stuff for the house we still own but was for sale. In the message I asked if the new gf would be going away with him on an upcoming trip. I didn't want to ask, but at the same time I needed to know. He wondered where this question was coming from as I clearly wasn't interested in him anymore...
And during this trip, I noticed that I was starting to feel really sad. I figured it was because he was on a trip that we had planned to do together (BTW: he was on his own) and all I wanted in the world at that point was to be with him. It had nothing to do with his new gf, because she didn't go, just an overwhelming sense of "what did I give up?"
It was at this point that I decided to see a C. She thought my feelings were based on seeing too much (from Facebook) and suggested I block him so I didn't see anything anymore, then re-evaluate in 4-6 weeks.
There were other things that happened too. We finally sat down to talk to each other, for the first time since January. It was so nice to see him, to be able to talk and not have an argument. And he seemed so strong, confident and just like the guy I met so many years ago. He really seemed happy, so I decided to be happy for him too. I even gave him some advice on what he should do to keep these great feelings 'alive' in his new relationship.
But then he reached out to see if I was OK, because he sensed some regret from me during our visit. I tried to convince him, and myself, that it wasn’t regret of leaving, but of not trying harder, earlier. I was still happy for him.
I also couldn’t escape the feeling that too much damage had been done. Too many people were hurt and it would be impossible to try again. His family would disown him! This kept me constantly pushing my feelings aside and wishing him nothing but the best.
Well, I did block him on Facebook, but we still communicated a bit by email. There was some family stuff going on from my side & we always chatted once a month about the house. It felt like we were finally going to be able to be friends again.
Then, not long after, I learned he had visited my Grammy in the hospital. I happened to visit her the day after he did. She and I actually argued about whether or not he would take me back if I asked. She thought he would and I was sure he wouldn’t. I was getting myself ready for the day he was going to ask for a D because he wanted to marry the new gf. But my Grammy was sure I was wrong and it got me thinking...what IF I really wanted him back? Is it possible to start over? I mean no one DID anything wrong (no abuse or cheating). What if??
I kept that thought to myself for a long while. I really didn’t want to interfere with his new relationship. Especially because during our visit, I shared (overshared) that I had a fantasy that we would meet up in a few years, both be single, and find our way back to each other. I really didn’t mean this as reality, hope or a signal for him to wait for me! It was just something I had considered when I thought about the future.
We were emailing back & forth about some of our issues from the past & some things of today. We both have the theory that we can’t change the past, only do better tomorrow. He expressed some regret about wishing we could have done better together and I comforted him in knowing that we were – but as friends. All the while I was wondering if my Grammy was right!
We ended up chatting on the phone one evening, supposed to be about stuff about the house. And I decided to tell him about this conversation with my Grammy. I needed to know if she was right – for me and for him - for us!
Through all our messages and emails I was feeling like I was falling back in love with him. I missed our life; and for once I could only remember all the good stuff. All the bad stuff was disappearing. I kept pushing him towards the new gf, but only because I thought he deserved better than me.
We continued messaging through emails, but I couldn’t take anymore of the what could’ve/might’ve been conversations. It was driving me nuts because I couldn’t ever ask him to choose. He deserved to be happy and I wasn't ready to be what he needed.
In the meantime, I spoke with some friends about my doubts and second thoughts. Not one was surprised about the news; just surprised that it took me so long! Sure wish one of them would’ve kicked me in the butt 3 months ago!
Well, we spoke on the phone a few more times since and we’ve met twice again in person. And the last time we met, it was because I was finally ready to put it all out there. After much soul searching and conversations with trusted friends, I am ready to do the work to get us back.
Not to the old us, to the potential US that was always there. We are smarter now, stronger now – we will not repeat the mistakes of our past. And if something goes wrong or something new comes our way, we will work together to get through it. We will go to MC and we will make it work. I miss him, I miss us!
He is really confused about my change of heart. And I understand that. And he has some trust issues with what I say – I understand that too. I tell him that I can only show him that I mean it, if he’s willing to take a chance.
Of course, he would have to end his new relationship to give us the opportunity to make our marriage work. And he doesn’t want to hurt her or potentially lose a relationship that could be better than ours would ever be…
I am ready to live with the consequences of my choices and actions, but it doesn't mean I want to. That's what it comes down to! I am OK alone, I will eventually be ready to move on and will be happy for him, no matter what.
He’s asked for space to let this all settle. Which he’ll get. I can’t message him any more because I need him to come to this decision on his own. And it hurts too much to hear that he “doesn’t know”. I now feel so bad for all the times I said that I 'didn't know'.
The only problem I have with all this is he will still see the gf. I guess that’s fair, I chose this path, so I will be patient and hope that he can see that I really am truly sorry. I am stronger now than I have ever been before and I will choose him over anything that life may throw in our way in the future.
He is seeing his C tomorrow and I see mine again next week. Here’s hoping that they can help us find our way back to each other!
Long story but glad to get it all out. I'm sure I left out some important things, but just am typing away trying to let it flow.
Any advice, thoughts would be appreciated
Hey Mandy, I am very new here but your story touches my heart. I am on the opposite side of your story but our situations are very similar. I am only one week in though. My W is now a WAW. We have been together for 8 years and I love her more than life itself! I have lost myself in the last 2-3 years, I lost a great job and then I got lazy. I stopped being "a man". I wasn't supportive, and I wasn't "there" for her.
I knew a month before she left that I was in big trouble, I had let things get way beyond critical. I knew immediately that I needed to step up, get a second job, and change my NEGATIVE attitude. I didnt share my feelings of embarrassment and shame with her, I kept it bottled, I just wanted to fix everything and make the pain go away. HUGE mistake, I didnt know she had already disconnected and been planning to walk away.
As much as I am to blame for this though, I believe I DESERVE a second chance, I am solely committed to making her happy and being there for her for the rest of her live. I cherish and adore her. And right now she needs space and it feels like she is toying with my emotions. I have been GAL, working out, lost 15lbs, have a new second job. But I have had to start the LRT. There was no cheating or abuse from me. I got negative and stopped being her refuge and rock. But I DESERVE a second chance to prove my love and devotion to her and I am not going sit around and justify her decision to stay away from me by reciprocating the "Good morning, have a great day!" and "Good night, sweet dreams :)" texts. As much as it crushes my heart to do this, she knows that she has my heart and I need her to CHOOSE ME!
Sorry for rambling. I hope that my situation never gets to 8 months like yours. I have been through a D before. I know she is that one that I was destined to be with forever, she has everything I was ever looking for in a W.
A lot of things can and do happen in 8 months, wounds scar over. That the body's way of protecting itself for the future.
I would say if you truly believe you are meant for each other and you believe you can reciprocate each others true needs and love, don't give up. If you had any kind of R like my W and I had then its worth fighting for and he will recognize that if he feels the same way. Falling for another woman is easy after seperation, men with a strong emotional side crave the comfort of a caring woman and have a lot to offer because they know exactly what they screwed up before. But that doesn't fill the void of TRUE love. If you had it once, he will want it back just like you do.
Like I said I am very new here and I dont have near the knowledge that others here do, but your story hits close to home so I wanted to give you my thoughts. I would love to hear your thoughts and advise on my situation. I have a thread on the forum.
I wish you all the best!
Mandy, you are one of the more unique people here as a "recovering" WAW. There are a few vets here (Sandi2 and Brit45, to name a couple) who might notice your thread and pop in to offer support.
Please keep posting short messages, even if it's just to journal once or twice a day, as it will help you get off moderation sooner and your posts will appear immediately.
I believe that the first support you will get will suggest that you follow Sandi2's 37 rules as well as to detach, live for yourself, and standard DB fare which you find most newbies are recommended.
I'm going to take a different tack, here.
DO SOMETHING DIFFERENT!
You spent the better part of two years distancing yourself from your H.
Now might be a VERY GOOD TIME to start re-engaging him.
You are afraid to ask him if there's still a chance? Why? Because you are afraid his answer will be, "No thanks, I've moved on."?
I'm not suggesting you ask him, yet. But at this time, please stop encouraging him to be with OW. Yes, she is OW (unless you are divorced now). Stop being happy for him because he's "happy" in his new life and relationship...
You DO NOT KNOW THAT...
He could very well be trying to make the best of his life, now. Putting on a brave face for you, etc...
So, rather than distance yourself...
You need to be a real catch, yourself.
Fix what ever complaints he had about you that were valid AND that you WANT to fix or make better...
and then, include him as much as possible... AS A FRIEND... in your life...
See what happens...
You do need to be doing this in order to maintain a great friendship with him. So IF you decide to go this route, you would need to have NO expectations that it will lead to reconciliation.
Still... there might be a chance that this draws him towards you and helps him realize that your changes are real AND permanent and that life with you would be much better for him, into the future.
IF he decides to re-engage and work on the M. THAT would be when the two of you should seek a M friendly (DB friendly, if possible) counsellor to help the two of you work out any remaining issues.
oh, regarding the friends who "knew" you might change your mind. It would not have mattered if they told you 3 months ago. You probably were not ready to hear it then, never mind act on it.
And, regarding the OW, please understand that statistically, most relationships that begin as an OP do not last. It could take a while for him to decide to re-engage with you and also to end the R with OW. AND... he will need time to grieve that loss... so patience would be key, here...
Hi Mandy -
I am reaching the one year mark of being a LBS, mine is a long story mostly journaled here - feel free to review at your leisure.
Regarding you and your H. I would strongly caution you to take a deep look into why you want to get back on track with him. Is it because he is with OW? The last thing you would want to do is somehow draw him back in and realize that you did it for the wrong reasons and put him through the ringer again. I am going to guess that he has gone through emotional hell trying to get over you and move on. Maybe he's there - maybe he's not. Either way - you need to be 100% sure that your feelings are not fleeting or a reaction to him moving on without you.
Additionally, do you think the core problems in your M have changed? Improved? If not, chances are you will land right back in the same spot again.
I could say more, but you get the point. As a man whose wife left (who would want nothing more than to have her back) think about his perpective for awhile - it seems that you have. If you really think you want R back, give him time and reason to trust. But most importantly, MEAN it when you say you want him back....all of him.
Crimson
Tried re-engaging but unfortunately that led to behavior that wasn't healthy for either of us. So all contact has to stop; it's just too tempting.
I asked him today to not contact me again as long as he is still in new R. Too difficult for now and I feel like the OW.
He doesn't trust me enough to let go of the new R and wants to see how things work out with her. He says he doesn't want to hurt her...
And I don't blame him for not trusting me, but I can only say "sorry" and "I'll do better" so many times. It would take actions and MC to 'show' him and that's not possible as long as he's with her.
So I will live my life, not quite like I was before, but I will be happy. He's encouraging me to date, but I can't do that as long as I have feelings for him.
My C encouraged me today to start a journal. Here's as good a place as any!
Thanks for the support
Oh, I know I might not have been ready to hear it either. But maybe it wouldn't have come to so much of a surprise to me when I started to feel regret...
And I have patience, all there is in the world
I am so happy to have all these replies! Thank you
Yes, I have *really* looked at the reasons for wanting R and him back - all of him.
Our M fell apart due to a lack of intimacy. This drove a wedge down the middle of our R that made us grow further & further apart. We had a vicious cycle going which I ultimately had to put an end to. I always said that I just needed a 'break' to be able to get clarity. I feel like I was in a M burn-out.
The thoughts started before his new R and the OW. And then I pushed them aside because I was sure he was happy in the new R. It was during one telephone conversation that gave me a glimmer of hope that he *could* forgive and want me back. That's when I was finally honest with him and myself about my feelings. That conversation led to more conversations, which led to me feeling more in love than I have in years.
When I started to have doubts about my leaving, I was sure he wasn't ready to hear that. I still don't think he's ready for it now...which is obvious because he still wants to pursue/choose OW.
I believe that the first support you will get will suggest that you follow Sandi2's 37 rules as well as to detach, live for yourself, and standard DB fare which you find most newbies are recommended.
Should have read those rules two weeks ago! Broke quite a few already and worse!
So last night was difficult...
It was the first night in about a week that we didn't talk on the phone...I must've woken up half a dozen times to make sure I didn't miss an email or text.
I know it's because the OW was visiting. Plus I've asked for no contact, so even if she wasn't there, he probably wouldn't have called...
This "no contact" thing is going to be rough!
Hey Mandy, I left you a long post yesterday but I am still on moderation as I am new here. So it just popped up back towards the beginning of your thread.
Anyway, I hear your pain, I am living it. I am trying this DETACH but I think it may actually kill me. We haven't had a physical conversation now in 5 days. For 8 years we never went a day without speaking to each other...its hard to see how this is an appropriate step at this point.
The only thing that I truly believe at this point is that self improvement and positive thoughts and actions have never hurt anyone. It is just very hard to keep that train moving in the right direction all the time...
OK, so you are respecting your H's new R, which is appropriate and appears to be what he wants.
I understand that you feel like the OW. I am curious though as to what behaviour was not healthy when you attempted to re-engage? Are you saying an attraction by both of you?
If you are going N/C, there are a few things to understand:
+ N/C is FOR YOU, first and foremost, to help you detach.
+ a side effect MIGHT be that your absence might stir your H to miss you.
+ N/C is generally temporary, unless you are setting it as a boundary regarding your H's R with OW. If that is the case, then I recommend you read up about AtLRT in DR, because that is the stance you are taking if this is about the OW.
+ N/C is about not contacting your H. In a strict sense, it means not responding to your H, either. Although modified, it might mean you respond to SOME contact from your H and not ALL contact.
I do want to frame the context of your sitch:
+ you left your H and M
+ your H is likely to have serious trust issues now, around you, due to feelings of abandonment
+ your H has now become involved with OW (one would assume it is because he is moving on)
Consider this...
Your H DOES NOT TRUST YOU and HAS CHOSEN A OW.
Do you really think that telling him he can't be in YOUR life while he is with OW is going to matter, to him?
I believe that it is really important for you to ignore the OW, right now. Whether you chose out first... he still is your H... and unless the two of you are D... SHE IS the OW.
How can you show him that he can trust you?
How can you show him that you are a great choice for him?
How can you show him that life with you NOW AND INTO THE FUTURE... will be much better for him and something he might desire?
How can you be attractive to him?
You do still sound like you are sitting on the fence...
If you want him back...
Then work on that. That's your goal...
Use the above questions and the DR book as your guide to help you work out what might help you achieve your goal.
Also, I would really recommend looking into getting a DB coach if you can.
Well, just got off the phone again!
He missed me last night too! Still not any further ahead, but it was nice to hear from him...
How does anyone "do" the no contact rules?
I have mastered the GAL, been doing it since before I ever left. Keeping busy, looking after myself and being the best I can be isn't a problem.
It's to stop myself from replying to emails or "allowing" him to call that I have a problem with...
I feel the need to fight for him, to convince him that I will NEVER do anything to hurt him again!
Thanks again for the reply.
Attraction would be putting it mildly. Crazy, powerful desire and 'playing with fire' would be closer to the truth.
Obviously from my last post, N/C clearly isn't going to work. Glad to know it's not the only way to go about this.
And I'm not on the fence, I'm trying to be respectful. I don't want him to ever blame me for it not working out with OW. And you're right, she is the OW. Not D and we both still 'feel' M.
Still trying to figure out 'how' to show him those things if I don't get to see him...because telling him those things isn't working.
I checked back on your thread and can't actually tell if you have picked up and read "Divorce Remedy" by Michelle Weiner Davis. It's often described as THE workbook for Divorce Busting and the work we talk about here.
Please do pick it up and read it, now.
As a WAW, you have already (initially) gone through the Detaching and GAL process. It's pretty common. So what is ALSO common, is you are now at a point where you've reconsidered and now want to see if things can be worked out.
So as you indicate, GAL is NOT a problem, for you. Keep doing that, as it will continue to be helpful for you, to some extent.
As you go through the DR book, there will be a number of key elements that you will really want to work through. Things like "Starting with a beginner's mind", "Knowing what you want", and "Asking for what you want".
At that point, you will probably be looking at focusing on 180s. The things that you want to work on, make better for yourself, which may also be things your H might have complaints about you, as well as things that might help your H trust you and believe that life with you, from this day forward, would be much better.
And finally, there is another book which is often referred to here called "The Five Love Languages". It will help you possibly understand what YOU need, to feel loved, as well as what your H needs, to feel loved, and how that dynamic can cause problems because we don't realize we ARE being loved and that our loving actions may not be seen as loving actions by our spouses, and how to change that.
So... please pick up and read the books...
And...
With a beginner's mind, not that the two of you don't have history, but rather from a perspective of "Life between the two of you BEGINS NOW and is NEW", you can move forward.
You already know that you would like to try to work things out with your H, so that's clear.
So...
Just to be clear, your H has asked you a couple times whether you would work things out and you weren't ready. Have you now told him you would like to work things out? No subtle hints to him. Have you actually said to him, "H, I understand that you are moving forward in your life. I am working on myself to become a better person and am making new, better choices, now. I would like you to know that I am interested in working things out with you and staying M."
No "if's". ie. Not "if he ends the R with OW" or "if he is willing". You want to be very clear that you intend to work on the M.
He MAY NOT believe you, right now. Still, you need to make that clear to him, verbally. And THEN, you need to SHOW HIM, that you are doing so, with 180s and other positive, consistent behaviour from yourself.
Hope that makes sense.
Please pick up the books and read them.
Just an FYI regarding "showing" your H.
Showing is not about getting in front of him and showing him all your good or "fixed" points, nor verbally telling him (he possibly does not trust you so won't believe your words, anyhow).
The little contact that you DO have with him, must exude these positive changes in yourself. They will be genuine and HE WILL notice. Also, there is always "back channel" that will likely get news of "the better you" to him.
And finally... you DO want to engage him... as scary as that might feel, for you...
It IS... after all... what you believe you want...
And as things move forward, if the both of you recommit to the M... then you will want to investigate and work on any past issues, so they do not crop up, again.
Hi AMA,
Hang in there! Took me 6 months and lots of soul-searching to feel anything again.
My R had many 2nd chances...While going through our first experience with me being ready to leave (a year ago), I found an old email while cleaning out my inbox - from 2009 - with promises that he would do better and be more supportive. I never felt that he tried and so I gave up.
Thanks for the words of support! I'm ready for him when he's ready for me
Thanks for the messages
Ordered the DR book, not here yet. Hope to get it early next week. Looking forward to reading
I have told him, in no uncertain terms, that I am ready to recommit to our R & M
He doesn't trust me and doesn't want to risk losing his current relationship, which I believe is already at risk if he still has feelings for me...He feels by talking with me he isn't focusing 100% of his energy on OW, but yet - he still calls...
The no-contact was for me, not to try to get him back. It's too hard to have my hopes raised with a great, albeit late-nite phone call, to then wake up the next morning to another email that he feels guilty and shouldn't be talking to me anymore. But then he asks to call again last night and I can't say no - I miss him!
I was just driving around aimlessly last night and decided to go see if H was home from business trip yet.
He turned up the street towards "our" house as I was waiting to make the same turn from the opposite direction - freaky timing! So I knew he was home...
He invited me in and we had a long chat. It didn't seem to be going well for me - more of him being messed up and not wanting to hurt OW.
He kept talking about her being so loving and supportive during this period and all I can think is "If only you'd give ME a chance to be loving and supportive" and "nvm her, I'm your wife". Kept those to myself.
The night ended with more of our "playing with fire" behavior. Which led to me leaving, in tears, and another late night phone call to say we can't do that anymore...
We've agreed to n/c until I've seen my C next week. He'll be going away for a couple of days to let his emotions and feelings settle a bit. It's gonna be a LONG weekend!
Weird how small the world is...
Was browsing another relationship forum, and stumbled upon my H's user name. Easy from knowing him for 9 years that it was him! The temptation was bigger than me, I had to click - had to see what he was writing...and what others were saying...
I started in the most recent posts, then went back to the beginning. God, it hurts to see how much he was hurting. Is it weird to wish I could have been there for him??
Then I went to the middle, seeing his progress - slow, but sure - and becoming stronger. (For any LBS out there - working on yourself does work, give it time.)
I then found his new R in the most recent thread - found out it started 2 days after he got his "closure" from me. And he's wondering if he started dating "too soon"?!?
I read way too much about that...also really painful.
Part of me wanted to experience a fraction of his pain for all the pain I cause him. Made myself read to have that happen. Messed up, eh?
I am also encouraged by a few other posters looking to give him advice to *carefully* approach the idea of R with me. And to let OW go, she is innocent in all this.
Also - I sent him an email to see if he wanted me to stop reading the posts - almost 1000 of them! I felt like it was good for me to know where he was coming from, yet at the same time, I want to respect his privacy.
He called to 'reply'. So good to hear his voice! He's ok with me reading them, he wondered if I'd ever stumble upon them. They are public. He did remind me that he's far from where he was in the beginning.
He wrote in a recent post "I do still love my wife". Gives me something to hang onto.
And after reading for over 2 hrs tonite, I do understand why he will have a hard time to forgive me. I need time to show him that I can do better, be better. I know I still have work to do on myself too. I am now ready to do this - preferably with him.
I know it won't happen overnight, and it will take baby steps. I offered to meet someplace for lunch on Saturday, he was very clear that was "no!". Too soon I guess...
Meeting w/my C on Monday - can't wait to hear her perspective in all this!
Thanks for the chance to journal all this! The last week has been a roller-coaster ride!
We all "snoop" and you found out the consequences.
I applaud you for "outing" yourself. Did he say anything other than he was OK if you read his posts?
I also applaud your bravery (or was it morbid curiosity) to read his posts and your humility and empathy which allowed you to better understand his position.
You can not "unknow" this, now.
He is still feeling pressure (based on his "no" answer to lunch).
You need to be attractive, you need him to see your positive changes and allow him his time to trust them and believe they are permanent (the SHOULD be), and you should work on patience and stop pursuit. Stopping pursuit does not mean N/C.
Just continue to become a better option... and be patient...
He also said he was sorry that reading them caused me grief. He knew I was crying while reading them and was again, while on the phone with him. He asked if I was OK, which I told him I was not...and he apologized and I tell him that I am more sorry than words can express.
Another thing - we were talking more about the passion we are both feeling. He wonders if "hooking up" would be a test of how things could be or just a romp.
I told him I couldn't go there if he was still with OW. It's just not 'him' - the man I love would NEVER go for that. He's not a cheater! So as much as I would want to see if that could start to chip away at his wall, I could never be part of that type of behavior - married or not.
I already feel like he's getting his cake & eating it too. (Relationship by day with OW and by night with me - mostly through the phone, but still!)
You may miss an opportunity to allow him to see the person who is becoming newer, better, more attractive.
If your fell YOU could not resist, than don't meet with him. It would take huge risk, courage, strength to meet with him and...
just be friends...
and that would be great...
If he's just looking for s3x, then no... stay away...
Again, please remember that the two of you are still M. The "idea" might be that you are the OW... the reality is, SHE is STILL the OW...
It is up to you to decide what you want to do.
I do think that getting together with your H for something casual, but fun might help.
Another late night phone call! Why can't we stop??!!
This time disguised as "house" talk (it's for sale). Always starts out for the reasons stated, but always ends up in a more intimate conversation.
He says he can't see past his wall and it is built strong. The months he spent getting over me have strengthened it. He isn't sure if there's anything to be done to tear it down. He also says my words and promises mean nothing, that they are bouncing off the wall.
I've kept reading his posts on the other forum site. They aren't very "marriage"-friendly for a marriage oriented site! Had to stop reading tonight when I stumbled upon the R with OW.
Reading these really have me wondering if he CAN ever forgive me and move on...Am I only setting myself up for failure??
Looking forward to seeing my IC on Monday.
Another f2f visit today and more crazy passion!
Went to far this time, we crossed a line that shouldn't be crossed while he's still with OW. Guilt and fun, all at the same time...Trying out our "test" theory. And I will repeat, how many tests until one has to take the final exam? So how messed up is that?
He feels super-guilty for all this of course. He felt guilty about phone calls, so physical is that much worse. He's afraid to tell OW because she might want to leave R. And I feel bad that it hurts him - more. Not what I want to leave him with when he thinks of me... *He did tell her a little bit, but that's his story, not mine. She's still around, for now*
He also worries that I see him "doing" this behavior and what must I think of him? Honestly, I think he made a choice today to no longer be with OW by his actions. Just not quite ready to accept/deal with it yet. Because he is not a cheater - never would've done anything like this EVER - until faced with these circumstances.
He also confessed that he found this thread yesterday, told me after our visit. Not sure if he's going to keep checking it...It's ok because I don't share anything that I wouldn't want him to read anyway.
I think it's interesting that he saw all this yesterday and still initiated contact today to meet.
I know he's messed up and needs time to process all this. Will wait it out, for as long as it takes.
He is still encouraging me to date. See what else is out there. Been there, done that. Nothing that interests me right now...
I told him that our behaviour today left me wondering if instead of tearing down the wall, that maybe I can find my way to the other side of it...Lust/passion is a strong emotion!
We've also agreed that email/phone is OK, but no more f2f - unless in public place.
Today was tough - got yet another email saying that we have to keep our contact to just essential business. I'm relieved this time it wasn't so he could "focus on his new R". At least I was saved that humiliation again; this time it was for "our" respective healing.
I agree to a certain point, though I do miss my friend in all this. Before I asked the "question", we were starting to be able to talk like friends...
And it was also tough because I knew she would be visiting today. Not sure how he reacted seeing her again...
Tomorrow is first meeting with IC in 6 week, and is about 3 weeks overdue! Should get my DR book tomorrow too.
Another phone call and I'm a basket case!
I made the mistake of asking if H & OW were still planning to take a trip they planned for this upcoming w-e. And yes, they are. He says it will be weird, but they want to see where this R is headed and it's too late to cancel everything.
I feel so stupid - for everything! From not trying harder in our marriage, to leaving him, then to discussions of reconciliation, to asking him to give us and our M another chance, to the passion and actions that followed.
And I feel guilty - H & I had a VERY similar trip planned for last summer when I dropped the first bomb about wanting to separate. (He calls it the 2nd - but the first was really just an admission that I wasn't happy in the marriage - not actually leaving it). I don't want him to be *jinxed* for this trip! But I can't wish him well and tell him to have a good time.
I wish I had the strength to let him go! I once told him that it took all my strength to leave in January and that's why I didn't go to IC then - just couldn't talk about it yet. Wasn't thinking about anything other than today - tomorrow would come tomorrow! So I know he and I aren't in the same place for growth - but I just can't let go - yet!
Don't get me wrong, no doubts about what I want or what I will do to get it. I just can't be part of his problems anymore. He's confused and I get it.
I will continue my work on myself. It will make me stronger and more ready for what ever comes my way. I will learn from my mistakes and will do better next time. I hope he gets to see it and even benefit from it, but the work and results are for me. To be the best ME I can be! Someone will benefit - me, first and foremost, and my life partner - who ever that lucky guy might be!
Sent H another song that I relate to - I love music and some artists can say what I am thinking better than I ever could.
Now wishing I'd have sent 2. The one I sent was Adele's version of "Make you feel my love" and in hindsight I should've also sent Jason Mraz's "I won't give up!".
Had my first session in 6 weeks with my IC this evening. The conversation lasted 90 mins but felt like 30 - time flew by! I had so much to say - so much that I've learned and experienced in the last 6 weeks.
I hadn't explained "why" when I called last week to see if I get an earlier appointment, just that I hoped I could see her sooner. And from the beginning of the session, I could tell she was curious. I started with what's been happening with my work life, which is going amazingly well! I'm so happy & feeling so good about that part of my life right now
She was starting to wonder why I was there...
So I explained that I was there because I am still in love with my husband. And she believes me! That it was evident in the telling of my story...
She says if the feelings would have all shown up after the OW, then maybe there could be reason to question - but they started before I knew or even suspected that he was seeing anyone.
The feelings started as soon as I saw my H living his life for himself, no longer wallowing in self-pity - when I saw him HAPPY! He was back to being the man I fell in love with
Crazy enough, this was after I gave him the "closure" he needed to move on with his life...
Yes, it's true, the feelings got stronger as I realized how much it hurt to see him moving on. And really, really hurt as he used the same words/emotions to describe his new R, as he had 9 years ago when we met.
And then that got me remembering how we met and how much we enjoyed each other in the beginning, which only made the feelings stronger. And we *finally* got to sit down and talk after 6 months, how good it was to clear the air and how strange it felt to be wishing him well with his new gf...
And she says it IS possible for me to see a change in my values/priorities within 2 months. And she's not even surprised! She says my clarity, healing and growth are just starting and really only started in May, even though I left in January.
She says I am so much more settled now. Last time I couldn't name 5 values (she had to give me a "gimme") and today I know exactly what they are. I know what I need/want and "only" need help & guidance to get there!
She believes that our respective growth and healing CAN bring us back to each other. That I still have a long road to cover before I'll be ready for R with H (or any man), however she believes it is possible to start again. That we can find ourselves on the same road and working on it together. From my side of the story, she believes H still has feelings for me and in time, he will come to believe what is in my heart.
She explained that he was probably waiting almost 6 months for me to say and feel what I'm feeling and saying now. It only makes sense that it feels like a shock to him now. Especially since I kept most of the thoughts to myself for a few weeks while I figured out if it was really what I wanted. I really did take the time to think about it too, I just couldn't approach this situation any other way! It was something that just can't be "unsaid"
She reminds me constantly and throughout the whole session that I can only take responsibility for my emotions, actions and choices. That his are his own, including his reaction to the separation.
My guilt, while a normal reaction, will only slow my progress. Discovering/awakening to my belief that I thought it was my responsibility to keep/make him happy is a big step. Accepting that his happiness is his own to create/claim is a big piece of forgiving myself and moving forward.
She thinks the only thing that is really unhealthy in all this is that I stopped living my 'life'. For example, Saturday I stayed home instead of spending time with friends, just in case H called. Oh and the late night phone calls should stop, as they are affecting my sleep - but it is OK to keep talking and emailing. (Late night calls should stop now anyway as he is back to a regular work schedule now)
She agrees with the boundaries we set about not meeting in person. That, for now, it's just not a good idea. Especially as he is still with OW. She understands my rationale for wanting to find ANY way in that I can, as well as my logic that we ARE still M. Not what she considers the passion unhealthy, because it is good for the R - it's just too soon.
It was a great session and I'll see her again in 3 weeks. She is sure that my patience and clarity will show through in the coming weeks/months. And not to give up hope unless I get a clear "no, not ever" instead of "I'm messed up" or "I'm not sure I can ever trust you" - because neither of those are him saying no...
In all of your posts, I don't see the one thing that's needed...what started all this in the first place. You say that there was an issue with intimacy, but don't explain it.
Fact of the matter is (and especially if he's reading this), both of you need to figure out what happened, seriously, so that it doesn't happen again. So in your opinion, what do you think caused the rift between you? You keep mentioning that he doesn't trust you. For what? Did you do something to betray that trust?
Good questions Mr Bond
Good/bad news is that it wasn’t just one thing that caused the rift.
I have retention issues (that I’m working on). H made a comment one time about my kisses being “too wet” which caused me to stop wanting to kiss him. I felt self-conscious because of that comment. That was the start to the end of our intimacy. Others things got in the way, but I own that mistake (and would spend the rest of my life kissing my H!)
H had a “burn-out” early in our relationship. I was his rock – listened, supported and cared for him deeply during this time. I’ve always said that I didn’t feel like he had made it completely to the other side of it, however, in reflection – I never did!
I felt/feel like I have to tiptoe around his emotions. I have to do anything and everything to make him happy, so he never goes back to that “place”. Even if that means not communicating my feelings. So I wouldn’t share when little things crept up, and so they all got bottled inside and became bombs ready to explode.
We both have self-esteem issues but his caused him to withdraw from our social life and left me feeling alone and unsupported. He missed a few key events during our marriage that left me feeling resentment – like he didn’t want to be there for me.
Resentment also came from the fact that I believed he was relieved when I was passed over for promotions. He loved our home and didn’t really want to move. So every time I got a “no”, he would breathe a sigh of relief. (While I became depressed over never achieving any of my career goals)
I obviously have my own issues – I don’t like to look “dumb” – so I stop myself from enjoying some of the simplest things in life – like a video or card game – because I don’t want to feel stupid. I just don’t do things that I’m not good at (see kissing above) – however, I need to let down my defenses and try!
It was a vicious cycle, never sure of what started which feelings. I know that I have my own healing & growth to do in all this. I have to find the tools to deal with my own issues, so the cycle never gets to start again.
The trust issue, I believe, is three-part – 1) H says I already left twice, so why would he give me an opportunity to leave a third. 2) I shared in one of our conversations about “why” I was leaving that I had thought about cheating. Never did anything, not even a kiss; I didn’t even come close to pursuing it. Just that the temptation was there – the thought - wondering “what if”. And 3) I said some mean things when leaving – things I hoped would make it easier for him to move on. I didn’t mean half of what I said...but now, he’s not sure he can trust anything I say.
And I have to be able to trust him too – that what he is doing/living/trying is genuine. That he won’t repeat his past mistakes!
All these things I am sure we can work on – together! None of these are one BIG thing – just lots of little things. So with the right support, counsel and love – we can make it better!
Actually I don't think alot of it you need to work on together. You need to start with yourself first. Deal with your own self issues. For example, it seems like you tend to think of the negatives in a situation rather than the positives. You thought of having an affair before exhausting positive solutions in your M, you "believed" that he was relieved that you didn't get a promotion. You seem to only think of the worst. Try changing that.
Plus don't be as critical or self-condemning. I think that's the main reason why your H is afraid of you. He doesn't know what to trust is correct.
That's right on the nose! I've realized that I can't expect him to forgive (or trust) me if I haven't forgiven myself.
I am and will continue to work on my issues. It's all I can do, all I can control. I will be ready for whatever the future may hold. He will make his own choices and decide what is best for him.
I asked him today to no longer mention OW - too hurtful for me to hear, over and over again, that he still wants "to see where things go with her". Makes me feel like OW and his backup plan...he agreed. I could tell it was difficult during our conversation to leave "her" out of it, but he managed.
And I also asked if he can see any good in a future together, because he only talks about the negative "scenarios". And he admitted that he can...
I wish I could erase his memory of all the horrible things I said, especially those when I was trying to leave...I can tell they still hurt him!
Hmmm the 'other' site isn't one that 'advocates marriage' is it?
What did you tell him when you told him to leave that was so hurtful?
No, the other site sure doesn't seem to be, at least not the group he's found himself surrounded by...A lot of working on ways to move on...forgetting the marriage.
Things I told him when I left: I wasn't sure I was ever in love with him, that we never should have gotten married and that the idea of us in bed together made me sick to my stomach - to name a few of the "worst".
Each has their own "reasoning", none of which really matters. For as true as I thought it all was then, while in my 'fog' and R burnout - I know the opposite to be true today.
I've always loved him, to the point of even too much, when it isn't any more healthy. And of course, there were days I could've loved him more. Like the day of his grandmother's funeral. After the funeral, H invited some family & friends to our place to get together. My 'problem' was that I had a previous commitment, that I placed more importance on than my H & family. I went to my meeting and missed the whole party/reunion celebrating a wonderful lady's life...
I loved our wedding day and every day before and after. A few conversations leading up to it had me wondering if he knew and understood the real me, but it was never enough for me to doubt the commitment we were making to each other! I still see the picture in my head of a photo from when we first saw each other that day. Still makes my heart melt.
As for the sex, it wasn't "fun" anymore - it felt like work or an obligation. We are both to blame for that and have proven recently that it doesn't have to feel like that...It can be fun again
Oooh that is pretty bad. You know on these boards it's always debated whether or not the "fog" actually exists. The message of how "we should have never gotten married" is something I think we've all heard. What did you mean by it when you said it to your H? Is it that you really couldn't see how you could ever be happy with him?
I think because I was feeling dishonest with how I approached our relationship. I was feeling like I "oversold" myself from the beginning, especially our first date. (Which lasted 17 hours btw!)
On our first date we played a question game - a way to get to know one another. I found myself giving answers that I thought he wanted to hear not always the whole truth. I really wanted him to like me and thought he'd like the me I 'could' be better than the real me.
I know that the real me isn't who/what I was the past two years either. Somewhere in there the real me existed...Funny, he says he lost himself in our marriage. I guess I did too...
I call it a 'fog' because I couldn't see any of the good stuff anymore. Only the negative and now HE can only see the negative, the risks...
Right now we're in a complete role-reversal from where we were 8 months ago - when I felt like I couldn't trust what he was saying and he could only see the potential of our future. Maybe another couple of weeks/months and we'll be on the same wavelength!
Journaling:
Today is gonna be tough. H & OW are leaving for a trip after work tonight. The exact same trip H & I cancelled last summer because I was talking about leaving. I'd even bought myself a car...
I would never want him to miss out on another experience because of me, but it stings that he's going with her while he's still confused about his feelings for me...They discussed canceling when he started feeling confused but decided to go just the same.
I have to be strong and not message him today. To be happy for him, if he's happy.
I also realize that it's their first trip anywhere together - this could be good or bad. Because you get to learn things you didn't already know when you travel with someone. I think a trip within the first few months of dating should be a requirement of a relationship!
What does his new GF think of all your correspondences?
Mandy, I just wanted to thank you for your brutally honest posts, while it may not be your intent your story is actually one of hope and inspiration for me and no doubt other husbands who are dealing with WAW's right now. You're living my current greatest nightmare- that I will detach from my wife fully, start another relationship and THEN find out she wants to reconcile. I've told my inner circle that it's the worst-case scenario for me because then someone's heart gets broken regardless of the outcome- either my W or my new GF; and probably also mine. Your story gives me reason to continue to be patient and hope for my WAW to clear her own fog.
Right now you just need to be patient, it took many months for your H to get to where he is now and you can't expect an overnight R. Just as you had to sort through your issues, he now has to do the same. It took you many months, it could take him a while too. So be patient, read DB and DR (over and over again) and implement the lessons. Good luck to you!
You have good questions Mr Bond! Not sure how much she knows about...she knows of the times we've met in person. Not sure if she knows about the late-night phone calls or the multiple emails each day...
From what he says she is being nothing but supportive & patient. That she "knew" what she was getting into when she started messaging him. She has offered to step away from their R three times, which he says shows how much of a giving person she is. The physical contact hurt her (of course!) and she won't be able to forgive a 3rd time (it was 3 times, but he told her about 2 at the same time...)
Can't remember if I've already posted this, but I've asked him to no longer include any mention of her in his correspondence/conversations with me. I know she's there, I know he still doesn't know 'what' he wants. I don't need to be reminded. It only makes me feel like the OW and his backup plan!
More journaling:
Wow - this is the longest period H & I have gone without contact in last 3 weeks. It's been 29 hours since his last message and it takes every bit of strength I have to not send him something. Especially today, with him going away with gf and all...
I'd like to wish him well on his trip, but just can't put it 'on paper'. I hope he has fun, just wish it was us going away - especially since this was one of "our" favorite destinations.
I'll spend the early evening catching up on a favorite TV show of mine, then will crack open my just-delivered-today copy of DR
Then a little blue pill to help shut the world off for the nite & then tomorrow is a new day!
Hope to get news about promotion details tomorrow - always nice to have something to look forward to!
So I cracked!
I just couldn't *not* send a message for his trip.
I told him that I hope it is everything he wants it to be & safe travels
Not expecting a reply, just felt like I had to send him off.
Two things:
H wrote back: "nice to be here, but not quite the same" So hard not to read too much into that!!!
2nd thing - promotion news/update! Looking really good that our house will be bought out with my promotion/transfer.
And that makes me as happy as it does sad. The house has tied us together for the last few months. It's weird to think that it will soon be gone.
Also, I'll be moving to the same city as OW - that's really weird! And I think I found a place today, should know next week if that will be approved. (PS: I already made sure to find out what neighborhood she lives in, don't want to find myself living next door!)
So much happening all at the same time. Decided to wait until H is home from trip for an update to him on house. Nothing he can do while he's away and it will be stress on him for nothing.
Have a great weekend everyone! I'm off to enjoy some ME time
So H has sent an email for us to talk or meet tomorrow when he gets back from the trip with OW. Things he wants to say & ask.
I'm ready for the conversation whatever way it goes! If he went and had a wonderful time and wants to cut contact with me OR if he really felt like it wasn't the same and wants us to keep talking OR whatever it is he wants to say/ask...No hopes, no expectations...well, trying not to have hope...
On another note, I had a great chat with another couple who are friends of us both last night. Their advice for me is to be patient and consistent. And NOT to cancel the trip I booked for my birthday. Which I booked hoping he might want to work on M and that we would go together...I'm not ready to go on this particular trip alone - but I can cancel up to 4pm day of - so no worries...
Hi Mandy,
I don’t hit the boards very often any more. To be honest, it’s too painful considering the state of my own M. But I get the feeling that your H is in a state that my W was in once. My greatest wish is for her to make her way back to that place. But I think her mind is made up and even positive things are seen in a negative light.
The reason I mention this is that from what I’ve read in your thread, your H seems to
want to trust you. He
wants to want to reconcile.
I don’t know if I missed it, or if you didn’t get into specifics about what he doesn’t trust you about, but I’m sure you’ve already considered them, and are doing some 180’s on them.
You two seem to have had some classical communication problems, and lately you’ve had some more intimate conversations than you had before. But you both feel that’s wrong.
I know you kinda feel like the OW, but you're his W! You lost your friendship somewhere along the line, but if you want to get closer together, it all starts with friendship. Close friends share their feelings. That means intimate conversations.
For what it’s worth, I think you need to think back on the things that attracted H to you nine years ago, and maybe do some more of that. Those things are still a part of you. Doing those things would not be fabricated or dishonest.
On the negative side, you’ve expressed regret for some things you’ve done. Well, stopping those things is no more dishonest than doing the good stuff. All it means is that you’ve become conscious of some mistakes, and decided that they do not fall within your value system. It’s called growth
The rest is up to your H. Nothing you can do except to be the best Mandy you can be, and wait and see.
That’s what I’ve been trying to do for several years now, and I won’t say it isn’t painful. But it’s the way things are.
{{{{{Mandy}}}}}
Thanks Andy!
It's my gut feeling as well, just need to be patient and let him come to the same conclusion.
The trust issues stem from me threatening to leave twice, actually having left once, he doesn't want to risk being 'left' a third time.
Mine seems like such a different sitch than most on here - with me being the WAW who wants to go "home". You said your wife was in same position as my H awhile back too...do you mind me asking what got in the way??
{{{HUGS}}} to you too!
You said your wife was in same position as my H awhile back too...do you mind me asking what got in the way??
The short answer is OM. It's a little more involved than that, but my W made a decision to "move on." She blamed me for the distance between us, and then put as much distance between us as she possibly could. She says they're just friends, and I suppose I'm still hoping that this is true. However, at a minimum, he has replaced me as her best friend.
I've always believed that love starts with friendship. I think my W can love me again if she lets me be her friend. I don't think she believes that is possible.
And as to your sit:
It's my gut feeling as well, just need to be patient and let him come to the same conclusion.
Yes. Be patient. It appears that your H is not as commited to OW as my W is to OM. And they haven't had enough time to build a friendship.
You have a common history with him. I think all you can do is to be yourself (the best Mandy you can be), and let him remember why he was your friend, and why he fell in love with you in the first place.
I've been M for 29 years. We have four kids, and our youngest is autistic. There's a lot of good times, and a lot of tough times. My W remembers the latter to the exclusion of the former. And she's enjoying herself with OM in the same ways she and I used to share. I can't compete with that. I still have responsibilities that I cannot shirk.
But I get the impression that you and your H are pretty much on an even keel in that respect.
I think you just have to be patient, and let him rediscover the good stuff. It's not all that far off in his memory.
And thanks for the {{{HUGS}}}
Not sure if you're talking to me or Mandy. If you're asking me, then unfortunately, it went nowhere. WAW is still lives in the house, cordial (more or less), but acts as if my only role is to provide family income, and watch over autistic son.
It's obvious that Mandy's H isn't in the same head space. I think there's more hope for her
I don't want to hijack Mandy's thread, though. I'm not really looking for advice. I've been DB-ing for a lotta years with mixed success. No magic bullet. I've resigned myself to the way things are. Things might change some day, but I believe that in my case, any new changes have to come from W.
Good, I think.
H is still messed up. He & gf are now on a "pause". She's going to give him time and 'freedom' to explore what he wants.
He's just not sure what that is and warns me NOT to get my hopes up...
I continue to be patient, loving and supportive - along with all the Mandy'isms he fell in love with
ANS, I was talking to Mandy since this is her thread.
Mandy, could you fill in a little more detail about what was said? The 'pause' happened while they were on their trip?
The "pause" happened on the way home from the trip. She noticed that he wasn't "there" with her. (No kidding - he was emailing me while she was driving!) She felt she had to step away to give him the opportunity to see what he wants. It's a weird term "pause"...not a break, not together - he's just free to explore what he wants/needs without consequences.
It's been a nice change for me, even though it's only been 24 hrs, I no longer feel like OW. I don't feel like I have to "hide". But he still feels/does guilt when we're together. And that makes sense...but it hurts too!
I was all ready to give him a big lecture when we met yesterday, that we couldn't "fool around" because he'd just be throwing away his new R, instead of ending it respectfully. Well that went out the window quick enough. I did get to say that there are 2 decisions to make - 1)does he want to be with her? 2) if no, does he want to be with me? While he can't have both, it doesn't mean he should base one decision on the other.
The problem is he misses her when he's with me and misses me when he's with her.
He's messed up. I think it's too soon to say what he wants, but he seems to think he needs to decide "yesterday". He's afraid to end up losing us both and at the same time doesn't want to hurt either of us.
The house being sold and him having to move doesn't help either. Too soon to "move in" with either the gf or me & so he's feeling like his whole life is getting away from him.
"He's messed up."
You know it was you who put him in this situation.
"I think it's too soon to say what he wants, but he seems to think he needs to decide "yesterday"."
He feels that way because he's been bounced around by you for a long time.
"He's afraid to end up losing us both and at the same time doesn't want to hurt either of us."
Understandable.
Oh - I know all too well that this is all my fault. He'd be so much better off if I could step away...but I just can't - I want him and us too much!
I told him that it might be too late, but I'm not going down without a good 'fight'. He knows a lot more of where I'm coming from now. We had a good discussion tonight - I let down my 'wall' and confessed to a lot of things I did/said/believed/felt that were wrong.
"He'd be so much better off if I could step away"
Yes he would.
"...but I just can't - I want him and us too much!"
See that's your problem. You're not thinking about HIS needs. You're only thinking about your own. Stop thinking about yourself and start thinking about him.
Release the chains around him and see if he comes back on his own. Right now you're causing major pressure on him. His GF has the right idea.
That's hard to hear and harder to do!
I don't want him to think that I don't know what I want or that I've changed my mind....
It is so sad to see a sitch like this.... I feel for you Mandy, my W is exactly where you were before your H found OW. My W says because she hasn't felt that spark for a few years that it means we are not meant to be together. I know I have played my part just like you know now that you played yours.
I can tell you right now that you NEED to detach and be the better option. It has helped my sitch out tremendously. The OW is doing what you should be doing. Be nice, cordial and keep any correspondence short and sweet. But PULL back hard. It's the hardest thing I have ever had to do in my life but it gets easier with time. Just work on you more, this promotion looks promising and a great distraction as well.
I hope my W doesn't have to feel what you are going through right now. I feel your pain and will read your sitch from time to time to see if there is anything I can offer.
Let me rephrase that... I hope my wife feels what you felt when you started to lose him, I just hope it does not get as far as your sitch gets. My heart goes out to you.
Thanks Guy! Good luck to you.
I decided to send H an email this morning & tell him that I was NOT changing my mind OR letting him go, and that I would be HERE if he needed me, but I felt like he needed to take a few days break.
He emailed me back & we 'talked' all day. Ultimately, he decided I was right - he does really need some time away from the whole sitch. And maybe I could use downtime too. It's hard on the heart...
Next time you talk to him, try to avoid saying things like "letting him go". No one wants to be "owned" by someone.
And this part..."I felt like he needed to take a few days break. "
You don't control the situation, but it shows you're trying to. Time and time again you do this. If he is to come back to you, he has to do in under HIS terms. NOT yours.
Good points Mr Bond.
Whatever I said (or meant by it) didn't 'work' anyway. He ended up texting to come and see me tonight...
It is what it is.
BTW, didn't quite write it as I wrote it here. I think the exact wording was "I am not changing my mind or giving up"
Thank you Stander,
Not sure how I missed your post before today. Guess I just needed to read it today...
The last few weeks have been a roller-coaster ride. But not one I would've skipped for the world and one I will stay on until I get told to get off.
Hang in there! I'm not saying all WASs will change their minds, but give them the time and chance to see what they are missing!
So what did the two of you talk about?
Thank you Stander,
Not sure how I missed your post before today. Guess I just needed to read it today...
The last few weeks have been a roller-coaster ride. But not one I would've skipped for the world and one I will stay on until I get told to get off.
Hang in there! I'm not saying all WASs will change their minds, but give them the time and chance to see what they are missing!
No problem Mandy! I'm still on moderated posts, so when I post to a thread it usually takes a few days before it gets approved and then it magically appears a few pages back if a thread is active. So you didn't miss it, it just wasn't there until it got approved. Good luck in your sitch, I hope it works out in your favor!!
Mandy, do you think you could take a look at my 2 threads on my sitch and tell me what you hunk from a WAW perspective? I would greatly appreciate it.
Our whole sitch is weird And getting weirder...
With my promotion/transfer, I will be moving, as I mentioned, to the same city as OW. With that, our home will be *very likely* bought by my employer.
So my H has to move out of our house. And he doesn't want to buy because of the state of flux in his life right now, and it's too soon to move in with me or OW - so he went looking at apartments. There aren't many "nice" ones around and he happens to likes mine, so he'll be moving into my apartment once I move out & the house sale is completed...So he came over to measure the apartment for his stuff, or at least that's how it started...
Part of the freedom of his "pause" with OW means we can fool around. And that's how most of our conversations either start or end. And now that I'm no longer feeling like OW, it's been so much FUN! Hard to believe that I missed out on all this fun for the last couple of years...
No hopes, no expectations - just enjoying the moments.
Also, last night was the first time that we met in person and I didn't end up in tears. That's progress - I think!
He's still undecided and still feels messed up - and that's OK - I understand. There's a lot going on and with added pressure from moving. Today I kept up my end of the deal and only messaged about the house sale, as hard as it was not to ask about anything else...
Of course. I will go do that now
Thanks Mandy, I really wish I was in the position where W wanted to be physical at least a little. But I do not envy your sitch where the OW is concerned. Definitely glad I do not have that and that we share the house, bed and are still really good friends.
I am probably as envious of your home life, as you are of my s_x life
I am so tempted to ask H, given his new "freedom", if we can do something together OUTSIDE of the bedroom...go for a walk, take a drive, watch a movie - something "easy". I'm just too afraid of the answer...
Thanks Mandy, I really wish I was in the position where W wanted to be physical at least a little. But I do not envy your sitch where the OW is concerned. Definitely glad I do not have that and that we share the house, bed and are still really good friends.
Just A Guy,
I assume W is not being intimate with someone else or hasn't in some time...
That's funny because I want to ask W if we can try being intimate again sometime to see if sparks fly. I am afraid of the answer and of the potential for no sparks.
Crazy how sitch's like this work.
I also think from a guys perspective if you cut all ties of sex or physical affection you will get a posative reaction from him, at least you will get him asking the questions you are dying to answer. But cut the cord now before he settles into a routine of expecting "it" without having to make a decision.
I know, but it's so much FUN.
And it's our 'thing' - something we've done very well from the very beginning...and passion is one thing he didn't have with OW.
This is part of showing him what it could be like, if he could find his way to trust me again. I let a few hangups, along with my lack of trust in him, get in the way and that part of our R died.
I know you're right, it doesn't really help - though it is a great stress-reliever
"and passion is one thing he didn't have with OW. "
Did he tell you that?
"This is part of showing him what it could be like,"
No it's false advertising. What you're going through is the initial rush. Do you think that he's going to believe that it's going to be like that in 3...5...20 years? Do you?
Yes, he told me it was the *only* thing missing from their R. It was something that worried him greatly, esp since it's a 'sign' of a rebound R when you'd rather just hold someone. That missing passion, along with her desire to be a mom, were two "red flags" for him.
And OK, maybe not every day like it has been, but the FUN should be there always. Yes, even in 20 years!
<----- is wondering if I should get 50 shades of grey to read and see if W wants to read it after me. Lol
It wouldn't hurt! LOL
Could be torture for you and a wake up for her!
Yeah I am hoping she has a wake up, I keep thinking about her weekend "away to think" and trying to get a grip around it. I would love to borrow some of your libido and transfer it to the W for the weekend.
Take the time she's giving you, give her as much as she needs - that's all you need to remember. It could take lots of it - hopefully less than it took me!
AND as long as she's still in the house, still wearing her rings, still willing to see MC - you are on the right track. A week or weekend away is nothing!
Lots of talk about time these days...My H said tonight that maybe he just needs some time to "miss me"...and so that's what he'll get. I'm away tomorrow, so that'll be easy, Sunday not as easy - but I can do it, if he can!
I agree Mandy. Let's try and keep each other in line.. Lol. No contacting the H this weekend!
And I will do my absolute best to just be me and not backslide.
He emailed me, so I wrote back. Oh well!
I'm not initiating contact, that's a step in the right direction
Wow! This is tough...
I just about jump with every new email that comes in, hoping it's him. It hasn't been yet though...been about 7 hours since the last one, and he hasn't replied to my reply.
I think it will be an early night to bed for me - easier to sleep this nervousness off, I hope!
Space is hard!
Space is REALY hard. Tonight I worked my butt off because I told her long before this sitch that I would help her with this event and tonight the dogs got a better good night than I did... Hard to detach, you and I have too though.
well, I was just officially part of "booty call" with/from my H.
So maybe he does miss me after all, just not in all they ways I hope he might...someday...
It'd be easier to say "no" if it wasn't so much freakin' FUN! And it FEELS so good...
Saw someone else post about not being a 'doormat'...I am willing participant and I get as much out of it as he does, so that's my reasoning for thinking it doesn't make me *one*. Or is that just me rationalizing it to suit my sitch?
Also, read in the book to try "things" for two weeks to see if they have positive results. It'll be a week Monday of the "pause" with OW, which led to our now *regular contact*. I'm not sure if another week of this will make things better or worse. But having fun in the meantime...
And he saw OW today - a fact that I completely ignored. Couldn't ask him how it went...trying to ignore that she exists when we are together. Smart or not??? Any advice??
If you want to have relations with your H, I say go for it. However, If it makes you feel like a "booty call"...well then thats not doing much for the self respect eh?
Some might say that it could bring you closer. That positive interaction is a good thing.
Some might say that he could be living a little fantasy. Enjoying the variety. And that there is something to be said for wanting what one can't have.
Again, as long as you are enjoying it, and you don't feel bad afterward, no harm done. That's my 2 cents anyway.
A couple questions I was hoping you would answer from the WAW perspective.
What kept you from filing for D? When you were "done" and you left, did you consider yourself D already? That the rest was just paper work and H could initiate that if he wanted, but you didn't want to bother with it?
What kept you from being intimate with another? Did you feel free to do so?
It's just the time of day that made it feel like a "booty call" - had it been an noon instead of midnight, the same descriptor may not have applied.
It is enjoyable and I don't feel bad. It's been a week of "freedom", no "I feel guilty" emails the next morning" - progress??
And he actually spoke about moving with me when I move at the end of the month...taking that with the old adage "believe none of what they say..." - but nice to hear him even consider the idea.
I've been asked about the lack of D from friends and family - I just wasn't at that point. Also, it does take a year to apply for one - but it was never something I wanted or asked for.
I didn't even change my name back yet either. Which many consider strange as there are no children involved. I finally changed my name on Facebook, but only after H went public with new R.
It was the finality of D, along with everything that has finality (ie: changing wills, beneficiaries, health plans), that kept me thinking that all I needed was a break. I didn't WANT to deal with those things - it made it feel too "real".
When he starting dating, I was preparing myself for the day that H might ask for D. It seemed to me that he might want to marry OW one day.
As for lack of intimacy with OM while separated - had a few offers - just wasn't interested. Which, to me, confirmed that the intimacy problems in our M were with me not us. I didn't feel like s_x until after I had a week of NOTHING and some 50 Shades. But the books just made me miss my H not wanting to go looking for some quick fix.
Truth is I've always and still feel "married".
but it was never something I wanted or asked for.
So you expected him to constantly be rejected and be fine with it?
How much C have you had for yourself?
Never wanted D - always said I needed a break. I didn't like the person I was becoming - very bitchy and resentful. I thought separating was the only way to break the cycle. Thought it would make us both better. But I hated the idea of anything that made it "final".
I didn't want him to feel rejected. In fact, I said things to *try* to make it easier for him. I would rather deal with him angry than sad. He did come to accept that it was me and REALLY not him.
I would have lived quite happily for 6-12 mos with no SA or significant changes other than our living arrangements. My lawyer was the one who advised to get everything in writing ASAP because of the house. The SA also allowed us to separate our credit cards - he had his own, but 'mine' was joint. (Never liked the idea that he could see what I bought)
As for me, I have been doing a lot of web C, as well as in person every 3 weeks. I've also been doing a lot of reading. I realize that I was projecting my fear, anxieties and depression on him. I need to forgive myself first, then he can (maybe) forgive me. Lots of work still to do, but I'm doing it!
I feel ya on the "lots of work to do" part Mandy! I am right there with you but I am a fighter with the most motivating cause in the world.
It seems to me that you and I are on opposite ends of the spectrum in the same sitch. With the exception being that yours is a little further progressed down the line of separation than mine. I will tell you right now that as the male in my sitch if my W was doing what you are physically with me and saying what you are saying at the same time, I would be loving it but I would also be thinking to myself "is this her reaction to me having an OW or are these sincere feelings".
On the one hand you are fooling around on a regular basis with him "no strings attached".
On the other hand you are telling him where you are and how you want the M to work.
I know it's "so much fun" and I know the sex keeps him coming back but I will tell you that if it was me I would be very reserved if I was him. I can see fooling around and feeling in sync like the days of old, I would then go into the mode of NON sexual intimacy to work on the true underlying issues of the M. The sex can be a great distraction from those especially when the sex is great again. I was there after the first bomb.
My point is have you asked him if he feels like the connection between the two of you is growing again or not? I don't know many men who will turn down sex when presented the opportunity so I would just make sure that you are heading in the right direction with him before getting too caught up in the feel good and not working on the things that brought you here.
Just my .02 but I could be way off base.
Thanks "Guy", I think you're right on the mark.
I finally asked him if we could try to spend some time together "outside" the bedroom and he says he's not ready yet. He says he feels weird about it - on one hand, he's still married and on the other, still in a new relationship.
I explained what I see from my POV: if his relationship is on a "pause", then he is free to do 'whatever' it takes to figure out what he wants. If that's an easy 'date' or s_x or just a drive around the countryside to talk - what's the difference??
My gut tells me he is afraid to feel more and I told him as much. He's still not sure if he can trust me, I tell him that it will take time. He's still undecided, but talks about what people would think/say if we were to reconcile.
He talks about what life would be like together - both good and bad scenarios. When he thinks about what it would do to OW, he gets upset and blames himself for moving on too quickly. (He had planned to take the summer "off" and only start dating, like now.)
As I left yesterday morning, we said we were going to take a few days break, but then he sends me an email last night to see if I wanted to come over...I had other plans, so he wrote back it was probably for the best...
I figure either way, s_x or not, I will get hurt if he decides that I'm too much of a risk to try again. So I will enjoy the time we have together and if nothing else, I will give him memories to last a lifetime.
Pull back even further Mandy. I think you will see some more results.. The comment he made saying "probably for the best" is just a snyd way of saying "whatever" in my opinion. He is still attracted to you, he still wants to spend time with you so he is stil interested. Just show him how much he wants it by pulling back more..
Check my thread out when you get a sec, got a ? On there I'd like to see what you think.
Not sure I'll have the chance.
H just sent long email that basically says not interested right now. He's just not sure that he can trust me and he's still angry.
I have an argument for every point he makes, but it doesn't matter if he's not ready to hear it...
"I have an argument for every point he makes, but it doesn't matter if he's not ready to hear it..."
We can't argue with how another person feels. This is HIS choice. Right now you have to respect that. Doesn't mean he can't change his mind at a later time.
He couldn't argue you out of leaving in the begining of this sitch could he? This tactic NEVER works.
"Not sure I'll have the chance."
Sure you do. Right here and now. Continue to be nice, but follow the 37 rules. Keep working on yourself. You control YOU. All is not lost.
You know you're setting yourself up for failure right? You haven't learned anything from this. You are still making this about YOUR needs and not his. Back off before you lose him for good. Stop being so selfish.
If he wasn't a bit curious about us, he could've said "too late, I've moved on". And yes, I'm aware he could still say that - but he hasn't yet...
His IC said that if my feelings were real, they would still be the same in 6 months. If that's what it will take for him to believe me, I'll be waiting...
I will be patient. Will keep going to C and will be the best me - for me.
You're still coming up with excuses for YOU. This is about HIS NEEDS right now NOT YOURS. See what happened when you kept pushing and pressuring him? A couple of days isn't what I think of "giving him space".
When was I pushing or pressuring him???
He calls, emails, texts - for the past 2 weeks I've only responded. We're having a civil conversation and then he asks me to bed...how is that on ME?
Are you saying I should be ignoring him? How will that help?
And he's not the only one who is stressed! I'm changing jobs, moving AND trying to save my M - all at the same time!
Since you started on this board.
Yes he calls and emails you, but bottom line is that he told you he wasn't interested or at least not yet, in a relationship.
"Are you saying I should be ignoring him? How will that help?"
No you don't have to ignore him, you just don't have to jump into bed with him.
"And he's not the only one who is stressed! I'm changing jobs, moving AND trying to save my M - all at the same time!"
You never mentioned he was stressed. At least here you admit this is for you.
Look, bottom line is that you kept pushing him away and after reading all of the things you said you did, from a guy's point of view, you're lucky he didn't dump you from the get go. Just being honest.
The issue that hasn't been addressed or healed is the issue of trust. Right now, the sex, light conversations don't address the issue. They're just band aids. Because the trust issue hasn't been taken care of, it WILL come back again. I don't know how many posters have come here, done the exact thing you did, thought their M was healed, and then came back because they went back into their old habits and didn't heal the base problem that got them there in the first place.
If you feel the need to talk to him, then suggest C for the two of you or go to a retreat like Retrouvaille or a private session with MWD. It will open your eyes for the two of you.
I didn't realize that encouraging our conversations and responding to his advances could be pressure on him...because HE was initiating. I figured if he wasn't interested in the thought of us, he would have dropped the subject (and the passion) by now.
The first issue of trust to overcome is to see if he can trust what I say. I said a lot of mean and horrible things in the end of R. That's all on me, I was reflecting my fears and insecurities on him. As for having him believe what I say now, that can only be done through consistency and regular contact. That's why I keep responding to contact.
And he doesn't want to see a MC yet. Not until he decides what comes next. He is wondering if he should just take some time and be alone for awhile. No more OW, but no more R with me either.
Yes, the sex should stop. It's only messing with both of our heads (and my heart). My gut feeling is that if he can't stand to spend time with me outside the bedroom, why should I be playing with him in it.
I've got a busy week, that should allow me to keep my distance and will give him some space. But I'm not going anywhere. Well, unless he can say "no" instead of "I don't know". And if that takes 6 weeks, 6 months or longer...I will wait until I feel I can't anymore.
I am right there with you Mandy, I will continue to work on me and if W wants to come around and be with me then we will. If the time comes where I feel this is futile and I don't want to try anymore then I will move on as a better person than before. I feel like I have a great shot and I don't want to squander it. You should try and pull back HARD over the next week or two.
Journaling
H called again last night...didn't ask me over, but hinted. I didn't bite. Truthfully, I'd already been sleeping for almost an hour when he called, otherwise I'd have been tempted.
And then no messages from H today. That feels so weird...
And he had a good reason to send one. One of the appraisers called today for appointment, he could have messaged to confirm the appointment. It's good that we're taking some space.
Plus he acknowledged yesterday that he understood this was all very stressful for me too.
Told a good friend tonight about my change of heart. She was surprised and at the same time she couldn't believe the difference in my attitude from a just over year ago to now.
When we reconciled last summer, she was worried because issues were never addressed. No admission of wrongdoings or MC, just a decision to "try" to work things out. And not surprised when they didn't...
That is a huge improvement from last July. I have admitted my share of the problems and have resolved to work on my shortcomings. Last July I was convinced it was his fault and I was only reacting to his 'faults'.
I didn't realize that I was part of the problem. I felt I my feelings/thoughts/actions were a result of the problem. Acknowledging that I have to share the blame, plus I have my own issues to deal with is a HUGE step forward! And she sees that
And YOU see that, but you need to use that as fuel to shut down these temptations from this sitch. You need to show H how strong you are and how changed you truly are becoming by totally pulling back and detaching. No more booty calls and no more of letting him take advantage of the sitch. It's only going to make you look week and feel resentment eventually.
Be strong Mandy!!!
I finally asked him if we could try to spend some time together "outside" the bedroom and he says he's not ready yet. He says he feels weird about it - on one hand, he's still married and on the other, still in a new relationship.
That is just completely bizarre reasoning. He feels weird about going for a walk or dinner because he's in a new relationship, but sleeping with you is A-OK. That says a lot about his character.
My gut tells me he is afraid to feel more and I told him as much. He's still not sure if he can trust me, I tell him that it will take time.
If you're actively DB'ing then it would be a good idea not to tell him what you think he's feeling. If he wants to talk about his feelings then by all means empathize with him, but don't start the conversation, let him.
My gut tells me he is afraid to feel more and I told him as much. He's still not sure if he can trust me, I tell him that it will take time. He's still undecided, but talks about what people would think/say if we were to reconcile.
Wow, he must have self-esteem issues if something as important as reconciling his marriage is dependent upon what other people would think.
He talks about what life would be like together - both good and bad scenarios. When he thinks about what it would do to OW, he gets upset and blames himself for moving on too quickly.
Well he's going to hurt someone regardless, either you or the OW. And he will be hurt regardless too. I think I mentioned earlier in your thread that this is my greatest fear- that I will move on, start a new relationship and then my WAW will want to reconcile. That's why I've decided to give her some time.
As I left yesterday morning, we said we were going to take a few days break, but then he sends me an email last night to see if I wanted to come over...I had other plans, so he wrote back it was probably for the best...
Good! That is good DB'ing, be mysterious and not always available. Let him wonder what you're thinking and doing.
Thanks Guy,
I will be trying really hard to pull back - it's tough though...I pushed him away for so long, the last thing I want to do now is push him away again.
There has to be a balance...somehow to keep our friendship growing without conversations always turning to sex.
Just have to find that "balance"...
Yeah well find things you can do instead of the sex that are no strings attached. Things that will spark conversations which lead to finding out new things about eachother. W and I went mountain biking and then cloud watching. Then a few days ago we got coffee and went for a walk. Sounds corny bu it was nice and pressure free..
PS: Just for fun, I just counted the emails he sent me today.
25 in less than 12 hours...Not one yesterday...It's so messed up
If only... he's not at that point yet.
He won't spend any time with me unless we're fooling around...
I finally asked him if we could try to spend some time together "outside" the bedroom and he says he's not ready yet. He says he feels weird about it - on one hand, he's still married and on the other, still in a new relationship.
That is just completely bizarre reasoning. He feels weird about going for a walk or dinner because he's in a new relationship, but sleeping with you is A-OK. That says a lot about his character.
My gut tells me he is afraid to feel more and I told him as much. He's still not sure if he can trust me, I tell him that it will take time.
If you're actively DB'ing then it would be a good idea not to tell him what you think he's feeling. If he wants to talk about his feelings then by all means empathize with him, but don't start the conversation, let him.
My gut tells me he is afraid to feel more and I told him as much. He's still not sure if he can trust me, I tell him that it will take time. He's still undecided, but talks about what people would think/say if we were to reconcile.
Wow, he must have self-esteem issues if something as important as reconciling his marriage is dependent upon what other people would think.
He talks about what life would be like together - both good and bad scenarios. When he thinks about what it would do to OW, he gets upset and blames himself for moving on too quickly.
Well he's going to hurt someone regardless, either you or the OW. And he will be hurt regardless too. I think I mentioned earlier in your thread that this is my greatest fear- that I will move on, start a new relationship and then my WAW will want to reconcile. That's why I've decided to give her some time.
As I left yesterday morning, we said we were going to take a few days break, but then he sends me an email last night to see if I wanted to come over...I had other plans, so he wrote back it was probably for the best...
Good! That is good DB'ing, be mysterious and not always available. Let him wonder what you're thinking and doing.
PS: Just for fun, I just counted the emails he sent me today.
25 in less than 12 hours...Not one yesterday...It's so messed up
Classic distance/ pursue behavior. He's testing you to see if you'll contact him. He wants you to. It's a form of control. Don't take the bait!
PS, I submitted this message last night and it looks like it got hung up, so I'm submitting it again. Sorry if it shows up twice (I won't know until these posts are approved).
Journaling
I have no willpower. I caved last night and again today...
We start talking about how good it is and he asks and I say yes.
Last night was a little different...I was ready to "jump" right in and he said 'wait, I want to hold you first'.
And tonight he asked me to email him when I know I'll be in town to visit, maybe I could come by...
I sent him a message after our rendez-vous of this afternoon (middle of his workday I might add) and told him that I should no longer spend time with him in the bdr if he doesn't want to spend time with me outside of it.
He replies that he understands and he will try to respect us both more. Then, three hours later, another sex-charged email and subsequent phone call...We were on the phone over an hour!
I have to be strong, but it isn't easy to say NO...I was successful in saying no tonite, but not sure I can be this strong next time...
So it depends on you. He can either treat you like a hooker (just for sex) or he can treat you like a woman is supposed to be treated. The physical stuff is going to be the first thing to go. You're just going through the hysterical bonding period.
Next time you start talking about your issues first before jumping into bed.
Hmmmm....
So we had to sign for the house to be listed with realtor this morning. First of all, signing together is a huge step forward. When the house originally was listed after I left, he wouldn't sign with me. He asked the realtor at that time to meet with us separately.
H took opportunity to bring something from the house (that belongs to my parents) to the apartment. He then helped me bring things from storage up to my apartment. And he invited himself in, asked for something to drink and sat down.
Then he toured around the apartment a bit, because when the house sale is final he is assuming my apartment. (I know weird, but reality) He was trying to picture his "stuff" here.
He stayed for almost 2 hours and we didn't fool around. We were very tempted and we talked about it, but he left without anything happening.
Progress???
Process yes... Keep that up, I just took a huge backstop a few days ago and it hurt. Make sure you set the precidence and stick to it. Show him you are ready to move on with or without him.
Let me explain it in A different light. What you are doing is akin to telling a child no video games until they finish their homework. Then 5 minutes later letting them play the video game with out finishing their homework.
Now if you repeat this with the kid for weeks on end do you think that child is going to learn anything or take you seriously? Or are they goin to think less of you and disrespect you and think of your rules as a joke...
Every time you backslide with H you let him know that you are weak and he can do what ever he wants with no consequences. NOT the message you want to send him!!!
More journaling:
H has admitted he is very bitter because of the move. I try to remind him that even if we were together, the move would be happening. I've asked him to try to separate the moving from our R. Yes, it isn't convenient for this all to be happening at the same time - but they are two separate events.
He is VERY attached to our house. Whenever I'd applied for promotions, he was reluctant to leave the house. That's part of why I felt like I had no support when I was unsuccessful in those applications...he always seemed relieved that we wouldn't have to move...
He keeps reminding me of what his IC said - that if my feelings are real, they will still be there 6 months from now. Yesterday, he even said "One month down". It's like he's keeping track. And that's OK - I'm in this for the long-term. 6 months is nothing to wait. It took me more than that to realize that I want him and our M.
He hopes that he will have an easier time to deal with all this once I move away. It will be easier for him to detach. He says part of him wishes we would squeeze in as much sex as possible over the next 2 weeks because once I move, it will be rare.
I know - "believe none of what they say"! But it's hard on the head just the same...
Wow, I would LOVE to squeeze in some sex lol.... I think if you keep detaching and gettin your own life then he will come around. I am not holding as much hope as yesterday, and I think you should be holding more hope.
Me again!
So I've gotten some face time w/H without any nookie - about 4 hours in the last 2 days. It's nice to spend time together...
I'm not reading too much into it as it's mostly conversations about the move, house and the messed up sitch we're in. A little cuddling and a few kisses - but no getting naked!
I went over to the house tonite, I knew he'd had a hard day. I wanted to support him. I know how hard it is for him to leave that house...
It was difficult not to give in to temptation. I knew it would make him feel better - but I also knew that the feeling would be short lived. He says sex is just sex, but unless he's done some major 180s - that's not him. He's just not that guy.
He always questioned my 'loose' morals, because I could have had sex without love. He couldn't and to my knowledge, hasn't.
He asked me today why I am fighting for HIM? Why don't I take advantage of the move and just move on?
So I told him! It's because of who he is - the funny, sexy, handsome, smart man he is. Because it's him I want to spend my life with. And then tonight, while we were talking about the sale of the house, I asked him if I could add something to that list - because he feels like home. That's why the house being sold doesn't matter as much to me. He is where home is. (BTW: Our song is "Feels like home".) And then he reminded me that is what he said in January, when I was leaving...so messed up!
NOT detaching was part of my 180 and GAL was never a problem - during our R or during the S. Even today, my life goes on...
Only once did I stay home to 'hope' to hear from H. The next day I gave my head a shake and went on leading my life.
Hope comes and goes...I'm hopeful then he says something about OW...
I wonder how long a R can be "paused"...
Two steps forward and one big step back!
H shared yesterday that he hasn't been eating well. Take-out for breakfast and then usually skipping lunch and sometimes supper too.
So today we're chatting about when we should meet again. And if it should involve fooling around, when he says he has enjoyed us NOT fooling around...
So I say "I'm easy to please - more time doing nothing is fine with me. How about supper? I can make sure you have a decent meal"
And he PANICS!
He doesn't feel he can take that step as long as he's with OW. And he's not sure he's ready to end that yet...
And I finally see, there I go pressuring him again...In my mind, I was trying to be helpful, trying to be sweet - to make sure he is eating. And he sees it as me asking for more than he is willing to give.
I feel bad, that wasn't what I meant to do...
I hear you Mandy... It's tough to balance pulling back while there is still so much of you that wants to be totally available for your spouse. It is hard to pull back while loony together. That's been the hardest thing for me so far I can only imagine how hard it is when you don't get to see each other that often and you crave it.
I keep going back to when you told me that just let her go and do her thing because her head is just not in it right now. I think the same applies to you here. Let him go and do his own thing, him saying he is not ready for that step just means he is not ready. You and I both have not heard anything like "we are never goin to work out" so why are we so worried about all these little things? They just distract us from our ultimate goal of fixing our own problems.
Mandy, I'm usually quick to try and give support to a WAW who comes here. However, I've been quite to your thread and once I say what I've said, I won't bother you anymore.
I don't think you can see what you're doing. Now, I'm certainly not telling you that you don't love your H. I'm not saying that at all. But, if your H had not gotten involved with OW, and if he was still trying to get you to R with him.....you would not feel the same urgency. I doubt if you would even have the desire to R, if he had continued to pursue you. But he didn't. He stopped and moved on with another woman. Between us girls.....we know that makes him look much better than he did before. Each time he refuses to break it off with her, it causes your desire to grow. Okay, so you may not want to admit that part, but sweetheart you have to stop putting pressure on the man!
Why didn't you respond to what Mr. Bond said in his last couple of posts? You know why. B/c you don't want to face it. Didn't your mother talk to you about girls like that? I bet she did, and if you had a little girl, you'd not want her having sex with a man who was with OW. That's crazy!
Years ago, there was a young woman here who was in a stitch a bit like yours, only she had two kids by her H. She tried different things and finally started to have sex with her LBH. But he was having sex with his OW, too. Know what? As long as she was willing to put out, he was willing to partake. But in the end, he went with the OW. I'm not saying your H will go with his OW, but I'm saying that he will want to have sex as long as you're willing to put it out there free for the taking. That.....or else he'll decide the OW is more valuable and he doesn't want to lose her. Be the woman who is the most valued by him. Yes, he is very confused right now, but you stand a good chance of losing all his respect.
I'm sorry if I sound harsh, but this isn't the way, Mandy. If he did go back to you.....this "passion" would fizzle before the week was out, b/c it's the competition that's putting the passion there.
Please take care of yourself.
Thank you Sandi for your message. I respect the wisdom of your advice.
I started to feel that I missed my H when he stopped pursuing, got a life and seemed happy - not because he started to date OW. The feelings started a good 3 weeks before I knew of OW...But I can't prove that, so it makes things difficult to explain to H.
I admit, the feelings were intensified when I learned of OW and I tried to cut ties and let him go. But he kept asking if I had regrets and eventually, I told him the whole story.
He is also concerned if I "win", things will change and that's one reason he is waiting...I try to remind him that it isn't me or her - it's what he wants...it's not a game! Not for me...
As for the sex, he says that any intimacy he had with OW stopped when we started fooling around. I believe him. He already shared that the sense of passion was missing from new R, so it makes sense.
I've felt that the sex was reminding him of what we used to have... The way we were before "life" got in the way and we didn't deal with it. It's been fun to walk down that memory lane...
I hope that he doesn't see me having sex with him as me being loose or cheap, because it's been amazing.
Plus I asked my IC (and he's asked his) about pursuing this side of our R, both were encouraging. We are still M and sex is an important part of our R that went missing. They warn us, like you and Mr Bond, that it will slow down once we are past this phase, but it's otherwise healthy. So yes, I've been leaning towards their advice more than not. Partly because it's what I want to hear and another part is that I hope they know what they're talking about!
And when he says he has enjoyed NOT doing it, it gives me hope that there can be more. Maybe he just needs more time to heal and to see what I say is what I mean...
"As for the sex, he says that any intimacy he had with OW stopped when we started fooling around. I believe him. "
Then he's not being fair to his GF. He's cheating on her.
"I hope that he doesn't see me having sex with him as me being loose or cheap, because it's been amazing."
It's called Hysterical Bonding. You're feeling the rush because it's not right and he feels the thrill of cheating on his GF.
What does he consider you? I mean you are his W but he has a GF. I know you treated him like crap before, but he's going to have to make a decision or else he's just being a d@ck to his GF.
She gave him a "pause" in their R for him to feel free to do whatever he needs to do to figure himself out.
So we don't feel like he's cheating. Maybe taking advantage of the situation, but not cheating...
Not sure how long she'll let this "pause" idea of hers go on. It's been 2 weeks today.
I am grateful to read your story Mandy. My WAW has been gone exactly 7 months today and i wish she had 1 percent of the personal insight as you do, by realizing your what part you played in the down hill slide of your marriage.
I am still on moderation, so when my topic gets posted, i would appreciate both your insight a d sandys.
Thank You,
Ed
You know, of course, that you only know what he told you. Have you ever met her face to face since this "pause"? I don't know any woman who would let a guy she was seeing do the nasty with their ex and still wait around for him.
Still doesn't make it fair for her.
You're right, I only know what he tells me.
From what I know it was defined that I was to pretend she doesn't exist...Impossible day-to-day - but for 20-30 mins at a time, possible.
I believe him and that's on me. I would be surprised if he has become a liar throughout this process - it's just not my H.
"I was to pretend she doesn't exist"
Really? Sounds pretty naive on both your parts.
"...Impossible day-to-day - but for 20-30 mins at a time, possible."
And so is that what "marriage" is to you and your H? 20 mins. of sex? No real intimacy or tackling the tough issues? The part I worry is that the euphoria of all this will wear off in a couple of months and then you're going to be left standing exactly where you were when you first started and he'll take off with his GF whom I'm sure he's been feeding info to.
What's your timeline? How long until you introduce some kind of C or retreat for the two of you?
Not what marriage is to me, just the only connection I have to my H right now. I know it's not the "right way" to connect, but it's what I've been grasping onto.
Given what I have learned and what we have been through, from my POV, we will never be back to where we were before...
I have no timeline. H's IC said if I truly mean what I say then in 6 months I still will - seems to be his timeline...
I would love to see a MC together and any retreats I've seen are really far from where we live. But he won't do any of that if he's still in R with OW. So I wait, patiently...
Waiting, waiting, waiting..... It's a friggen great test in patience.
I think that you could really progress that timeline if you let go of that sexual attachment to him..
Do you feel like you are getting stuck in friendville? I am feeling that today and since our sitch's are somewhat similar was wondering what your take on that is in your sitch.
Mandy, FYI, I thought being intimate with my H would help us reconnect-that was last year. I didn't know he was having an A. Lots of intimacy but no reconnection.
This time around, no intimacy at all. And you know what? I'm very glad I chose this route. He adjusted to me saying no, and I stopped feeling like trash every time we did it and he left me to go back to his place. Think about it.
All I've been doing is thinking...and attempting to keep some physical distance from H this week. If we can make it through the weekend, it'll be a week since our last "hook up".
He is considering more and more being single for awhile...He misses the life he had late-spring...before OW and before my change of heart...lots of time with friends, more social, exercising, happy & at peace.
He said he's seen me, more than anyone else in his circle of friends within the past 2 weeks. That makes me happy & sad.
Speaking of friends, H told 2 more of his friends yesterday about the whole sitch - well, most of the story...Widening the 'trusted' circle...maybe testing the waters...Trying hard to NOT read too much into that!
It's already been 5 weeks since I told him that I want us to work on our M...that I'm ready to take my part of the blame for the troubles...that I am willing to do the work! I am in this for the long-haul, but does time ever move slowly in limbo?!?
Weird day today on a personal front too - worse because I'm over-emotional. One friend announces she is ready to leave her H while another announces her engagement - and asks me to be matron of honor!
Mandy, your H's statements sound like my H's. He would say he really enjoyed being single. But now he says he's ready to "date" other women, and that being officially married is a turn off. The physical distance is what you need, or you can still see him and do fun stuff, casual stuff, but no "hookups." Try to keep the conv away from the relationship. My H was saying he wanted to be single for over a year, so five weeks seem like nothing (now.) In the past, a day seemed too long.
Like someone said on this board, our S's new behaviors soon become the "new normal." Yes, it stinks. I know...
Hang in there.
How are you doing, Mandy?
Thanks for asking - trying to balance life, work and love.
H and I have been chatting almost every day on the phone, which he initiates He says it is nice to be talking like this. And he's as glad as he's not that we're being 'good'.
He accepted my help the other day when his car had to go to the garage. It was going to be a lengthy appointment and he didn't want to wait at the garage. I offered to pick him up and bring him home, then come back and drop him off to pick it up again. It was nice to be helpful.
But on the downside, I got kinda mad the other day. I just couldn't take anymore talk about OW. He was telling me that she was dropping by - and I can't. She was bringing him supper - and I can't. I just got upset. It was an overemotional day to begin with (packing up wedding stuff), plus throw in a few hormones for good measure...but I think he finally heard me. And I made a good point, I'm sure that he doesn't talk about me when he talks to her...
Their 'pause' is ongoing - not sure how long a 'pause' can last...
He's been sick for a few days, so I haven't really seen him. (that helps with the being good!) But I did get to visit yesterday for a few minutes - it was his Birthday. I brought him his card, which I left for him to open after I'd gone.
It was difficult to choose a card - Husband/friend vs. romantic/funny. I decided to go with romantic but not H. When I found 'the' card, it just felt right! He thanked me for the card and reminded me that he still needed time to let things settle.
He is hoping once the house is sold and he moves into my current apartment that he will have some time to just 'be'...And I agree, he needs some downtime - too much happening, all at the same time. He hasn't really had any time to process all this.
One backslide will not likely be the end to the positive. Let it go and keep moving forward.
Otherwise, it all sounds awesome. Yes, give him what ever time / space he might need and in the same hand, keep doing what you are doing. It appears to be working.
Just keep ignoring any bad behaviour and praise / encourage good behaviour.
Agree. He's not pulling away from you, and this is a great sign. Things take a long time, so continue being patient. What I don't understand if the "pause" in his R with the OW. They're still seeing each other and she brings him dinner? I totally understand why you can't take it. Would you agree to him moving in with you when this OW still is in the picture? Make sure you are both ready to move back in together.
Not ready to move back in together...yet!
He's moving into my apartment when I move out. I've accepted a transfer with my job to a city about an hour away from home.
He plans to live here for 6-9 mos and then decided where he really is going to live. And that could me moving in with me or maybe moving in the opposite direction...he's still not sure what he wants or where he wants to go, very messed up.
I see. This makes more sense. Six months is a good length of time to see where things are headed. I learned by experience that patience is critical in DB, so continue being patient.
I feel ya Mandy. The wagon wheels keep spinning in my sitch without any real direction. Very frustrating. Hope you are well...
Short update just because I am too tired to write much more...Looking forward to moving just so I don't have to travel 2 hours a day!
H & OW are over. She ended it. I would assume she was tired of waiting on the sidelines...
No new advancements in our R or M. I'm still giving H space, time and patience. Some days are harder than others...
Thank you everyone for your support
That's what makes this site so awesome. The support... I know for darn sure it has helped me get through many days.
The fact that OW and H are done is good, just keep up the space giving! Last thing you want now is for him to resent you for OW dropping him.
Patience...
Mandy, I'm happy to hear the OW is out of the picture. When are you moving?
Ugh. When H and OW ended it, he was heartsick, and it was a really messed up situation. He almost expected me to console him?
Keep giving him the space he needs. Don't get too wrapped up in it. That's what I did and I regret it.
H isn't heartsick - he was a little sad, but OK. Still confused...
Moving in 2 weeks! And looking forward to it, as much as I'm not. I think H needs some space to help him figure stuff out & moving will give him that. It also means I won't see him as often...
The sale of our home is the same - glad and not that it will be happening...
Off to have supper - thanks again everyone for checking in!
Hi Mandy, I hope you are doing well! How is your sitch? That's a very interesting development about H and OW being done. I'm sure H will grieve for a while, but I suspect it could bode well for your M! Let us know how you are doing
Things are better, I think!
H & I are spending quality time together. Took a day trip for a bit of shopping last weekend, that was nice. 4 hours of driving with good mix of conversation!
H also visited my new place, loves the layout - just not the location, about 40 mins from our hometown...
He asked me if I'd considered our living arrangements IF we reconcile. I explained that I hoped since he worked from home that he would move in with me, so I wouldn't have to travel for work. He asked if my idea of maintaining both residences was still on the table (which I'd suggested early on) and I said it was. Especially in the beginning, best to take things slow...
He said he liked us spending time together "like this", as friends and maybe eventually I might spend the night at his place when I come home to visit, or he could spend a night at my new place...
I was also happy to spend a few hours with H for my birthday
Ordered takeout and watched a movie - great progress from a month ago!
All in all, I'm very happy with the sitch today. No pressure from me for more, for now. My C says I'm giving him too much power because he gets to make all the decisions on our time together - but I'm OK with that - at least for now. I need to show him that I am ready to do anything to make our M work and he's allowed to set as many boundaries as he needs.
We both move next week, that will be difficult for both of us. We'll get through it...but it will be an emotional week.
Good, good, good for you (((((()))))))
That's awesome Mandy, sounds like a great development!! Congrats!! Keep up the good work, your DB'ing is paying off
Don't fall back into old habits, keep the 180's going!
Congrats Mandy! Your sitch has helped me a LOT in my own, I only hope that my W's eyes become as open as yours did...
Thanks everyone! I believe things are going really well. I think he sees more of what I've been trying to explain. It's been nice, he calls me almost every day
Went to help H pack today - I am fortunate that my relocation package includes packing - so I figured if he needed help, I could help. I was happy to help, but it's weird just the same!
He had a bunch of "memories" on his dresser (pics from our wedding, cards I gave him, even his copy of the DB book). Not sure if that was just stuff that he wasn't sure what to do with yet or if it was for my 'benefit', and it doesn't really matter...
On top of the pile of pictures was one of my favorites - it's the picture of when we saw each other for the first time on our wedding day. It was nice to see that again
This week will be difficult with moving - both in emptying the house, as well as being almost an hour away from H. I'm looking forward to no longer having to commute each day for work, but at the same time, sad to be away from H.