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I didn't see it coming part 1 I didn't see it coming part 2 In home separation part 1 Last Post - before thread locked
Been out on my bike today & did a comfortable 10 miles which was nice in the sun cool
Earlier today my W was flirting with me a bit, trying things on & I have to admit she did look good.
Since I've pulled way back we haven't ML in about 5 weeks & as much as I don't want to potentially get dragged back into limbo, I don't know how much longer my will power will last.
I don't want to undo any good progress (personal growth) by sleeping with my W, because I run the risk of being dragged back in. (If I was a DB Jedi I could do both wink )
I will not cheat on my W, because I honour my vows & I know how it feels to be on the wrong end of it.
What would DB-MAN do?
Bill
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I chose not to initiate anything with my W and stepped back from my desires to think with my brain.
I have to tell you an In Home Separation with a WAW, when you are curretly a SAHH (stay at home husband)with your 2 young kids off for 6 weeks is character building if nothing else.
The other day I read through my sitch from start to where I am now and it was good to reflect on not only how far I have come, but also how far away I am from saving myself or my M.
I've been looking long & hard at our finances (lack of) and even when my teacher training bursary kicks in - because we owe alot of money out - financially we are tied together until at least February and maybe beyond.
This frustrates me somewhat because I feel disarmed financially from making choices and decisions on my next steps because of this financial barrier.
In hindsight, had I known what I know now about my sitch I would not have used my redundancy money to pay for a holiday & make some home improvements
I did these things because I love my W and famiy very much & really thought our M was in a stronger place than it actually was.
I am facing up to how things actually are, financially we are going to both need each other for at least the next 6 months & neither of us can afford to move out (that's the reality of it).
Emotionally I am ready to either legally separate or file for D, because I will no longer tolerate her lack of respect for me by continuing to dance with the OM.
As things are now I don't want to be part of any R with my W. If my W wants to give R another go there are things I will not compromise on, before I would consider it.
I have gotten used to not trusting my W, but to a point where I'm not suspicious as in, worrying who she's out with or who she's texting. I just accept that she's not to be trusted & more fool me if I have any expectations or desire to get sucked back in while she is living this way.
Instead of getting wrapped up in my sitch, I'm just going to have to live with some of the crap for now, because financially we can't stand on our own 2 feet right now.
What I am going to do is make sure I put everything into my teacher training & my future career - so that I can fulfill what I set out to acheive 5 years ago. The ultimate goal hasn't changed, but the measurements have.
It used to be all about being successful & moving to a nicer area with my W & the kids, now it's a little more defined ...
I want to be a strong role model and great father for my kids.
I want to be a great teacher.
I want to be financially and emotionally independent again.
I want the next chapter of my life to be my best chapter.
I want to be the best ME I can be.
I've got a long way to go on this journey & either way whatever happens between me and my W, I know I'll be OK.
I have to be for my kids and for me.
Bill
DB-Man would not give in to the temptation as DB-Man knows OM is still in the picture and WAS is only using ML to tag and confuse LB who is dropping the rope.
DB-Man would not flirt either.
DB-Man would have his plan in play and work on himself and his education and move forward.
DB-Man would spend extra energy on his children who need lots of love through these difficult times that wife has brought upon the family.
DB-Man would continue to drop the rope.
I think this is how I'm gonna move forward...
Everytime I have doubts, need to question something or my intentions, I'll just ask myself:
'What would DB-Man do'?
Thanks Chatter
i will keep on you. You keep on me.
i need some help with keeping with the running lately. I missed 2 runs last week. Got the long one in.
This week I am on course. But need to stick to it.
That's a deal!!
I did good last week with getting my 3 runs in and a half decent bike ride, but I undid loads of that good work by not eating well.
I'm gonna set my alarm for a 6am run in the morning, gotta get my 1st in tomorrow.
I'll let you know how that goes, I think i'll enter a 5 or 10k to get me motivated for some training.
How about you Chatterbug, are you in training for any runs?
Bill
Yea. The goal this winter is 1 marathon 6-10 half marathon's and 2 10k's
I keep up with my long runs ( 6 - 8 miles for maintenance ) But will be ramping them up now.
Marathon wow!! The most I've ever run is 10 miles - 3 short of a half marathon.
That's some going! I've been doing 5k runs - need to step up my distance - think i'll try and do 10k tomorrow :-)
Stay strong Bill (re all the flirting) - I mean, enjoy it, but don't succumb.
Why is she flirting so much do you think? There is clearly a connection that she is after, and not exactly the sign of someone wanting it to be over.
Yesterday when I had my 2 hr window to get a 10k in the weather was terrible - really windy and lots of heavy rain - so I didn't do my 10k yesterday.
I did set my alarm for 6:15 and squeezed my first 5k in of the week though this morning :-)
Taking the kids out today to Chester today - should be good, just me and the kids, it's an old Roman walled city, with a beautiful cathedral.
Might have to get an ice cream, cause it is hot today :-)
I'm going to try and do my long run on Sunday instead.
How about you cutter? You still doing good this week with your running?
Hey Yankee
Yeah, she was flirting a lot last night as well, but I never took the bait.
I'm sure it's just a temperature check on her part to make sure i'm right where she wants me (limbo central) .
If it's not she's gonna have to work a lot harder pursuing me.
I'm liking being pursued way to much to pick up that rope at the moment.
Bill
sweet did my run today as well. just 3.5 M
Yesterday I did 35 minutes in the pool
Plus 3.5 M on Tuesday.
Tomorrow the goal is to do 35 in the pool plus 8 M on Saturday then perhaps catch a match for week one.
That sounds like a nice evening.
Hey that's excellent - I think i'll have to get some swimming in soon.
Gonna get up early again tomorrow and either do a run or a bike ride - edging more to a bike ride - 'cause my bike is so nice to ride.
Should be able to get 10 miles in 1st thing in the morning.
Gonna go to a park on Sunday and do my 10k - the perimeter is 2.5 miles so 2 and a half times round should be a comfortable 10k.
I'm loving this checking up in each others cardio - keeping me on track.
Bill
Hey that's excellent - I think i'll have to get some swimming in soon.
Gonna get up early again tomorrow and either do a run or a bike ride - edging more to a bike ride - 'cause my bike is so nice to ride.
Should be able to get 10 miles in 1st thing in the morning.
Gonna go to a park on Sunday and do my 10k - the perimeter is 2.5 miles so 2 and a half times round should be a comfortable 10k.
I'm loving this checking up in each others cardio - keeping me on track.
Bill
You can make a report similiar to this for the next ninety days and you will be doing the RIGHT thing, as well as getting alot done. I'm inspired.
well it cannot all be doom and gloom
Exactly!! Happiness comes in small doses, too small to pass up.
My day out with the kids in Chester today was great - we had so much fun.
My W has to go to work early tomorrow - so no early morning run / bike ride for me tomorrow, so I'll have to get 1 in tomorrow night or 2 over the weekend.
Off to bed for some needed zzzz's
She's leaving the house at 6am!! it's 10 to 1 in the morning here and I'm only just going to bed. I might have soul, but I ain't a soldier
I'll just go for a run tomorrow night instead (promise)
You're good!! You're really good keeping me in check - no more slacking off from me.
You've already done a couple of runs & swims this week & have led by example, but you've set the bar high for yourself & I'll know when you're taking it easy
Bill
Running 8 miles tomorrow. Did a short swim today. Just 15 minutes..
When I say swim I mean I do a stretching warmup. Then exercise in the pool. To make it fun. Swimming back and forth gets old fast.
got the 8 in plus helped move Daybyday for 14 hours...
Nice going Chatterbug! I didn't get my 10k in did another 5 and was going to carry on but my knee wasn't quite up to it.
I went a bit DIY crazy yesterday, sorting out my neglected under the stairs cupboard. After throwing half of the stuff away, gave it a good Hoover and mopped the floor.
Then I said to myself that bit needs a new skirting board, which I fitted along with new flooring and painted it all - didn't stop from about 2pm til 11pm, but it looks great!!
Only thing now is sorting out what's going back in there and moving some stuff to the attic - but it'll be a more useable space and will get a few things out of our bedroom (bonus).
I'm gonna see how my knee is later and try to do my 10k tonight.
Keep up your good work cutter, you are going hard at it again!!
Bill
My thighs were so stiff yessterday after being up and down ladders all afternoon - very pleased with the results of my little DIY project though.
Got my 10K in this morning - just come back from it.
That's the longest I've run in nearly 2 years so I'm definitely having a rest day tomorrow.
How are you feeling after your 8 mile run yesterday?
The Saturday run was very hot. Then I helped move for 14 hours on sunday. Still feeling that. So no run this morning going to run tonight.
Congrats on the DIY project. It is nice to come here and talk about some accomplishments that we ourselves are completing. This week my main goal is to get 3 runs in and get ahead at work again. We have been short staffed so everyone is falling behind.
Helping someone move really takes it out of you, lots of lifting & usually lots of stairs.
I'm liking the 3 runs target this week, 1 today, 1 Thursday & 1 on either Saturday or Sunday - anything else is just an added bonus.
Good thinking about trying to get ahead in work, when a few people are off on vacation or sick, you can really notice the extra work.
I've got a couple of DIY goals to try & get done by the 10th Sept & I need to start doing some prep work for my course.
I'll try and check in later
Bill
I haven't really posted much lately about my sitch or my feelings towards it, been focusing on me since I managed to finally detach.
I didn't want to post anything because I wanted to see if my feelings would change over the last month or so.
I've posted many times stating what I would need my w to do to show that she was commited to working on our M, but the way I've been feeling lately I don't know if that would make me want to work on the M.
The longer this situation drags on of us basically being co-parenting roommates with our issues brushed under the carpet, more damage is being done to the floor (foundations of our relationship).
The pedestal that I held my w upon has been taken down, smashed and burnt.
I have come to terms with the versions of why our R was in a bad state and take full ownership of my failings.
I was prepared to forgive and to try and move on from my W's PA / EA.
What I can't forgive my W for is this continual lack of respect for me and her M vows, by continuing to maintain contact with the OM by dancing with him. She knows exactly how I feel about the situation and yet continues to disrespect me every Friday night.
To me it is clearer now than it ever has been, she has made her choice.
I have made my choice, to work and work and work on ME.
I'm in no rush to file or move out because of financial reasons and I love being with my kids.
I've got my teacher training, my kids, my family, my friends , my fitness, my GAL activities.
My life is full of good things and good people, I might have lost the love of my wife but I've found ME again
Bill
I wrote the same thing Bill a few years ago. You are looking forward to some great personal growth.
Crisis. Make something positive out of it.
Thanks Chatterbug
Yeah I have got a lot of personal growth to go through and I am looking forward to it.
The other day we got into a bit of an argument over a misunderstanding & I could feel it building & turning into an R talk.
The disagreement was ultimately about my W feeling like she isn't spending enough time with the kids on her own, with an undertone of 2 way criticism of my W not pulling her weight with the day to day running of the house & me not getting as much stuff in the house decorated / fixed as hoped for.
I stopped it dead, because I could see where this conversation was heading.
I just said, 'This situation is not ideal for either of us, but blaming each other isn't the answer, we need to talk more & be logical abouth these things. I've been on plenty of days out with the kids on my own this summer, you've got today & a few days off work next week, take the kids out somewhere & I'll get as much done in the house as I can'.
I asked her if she was ok with that & she said yes, so I left the conversation.
My W took the kids out a couple of times & I had a good clear out in our bedroom & decorated it.
The argument has been forgotten about & we have got on really well since.
The difference for me was that I wasn't hoping for any positive outcome or had any agenda that was measured by my W's reaction. I simply listened, acted & stepped back.
The rope was thrown to me, but I didn't pick it up
Bill
missed one run this week. Hope to catch up on Friday for the lost run. so down 3 miles. I have 10 miles on Saturday to run.
boy last friday I went to a concert with my lady and we had 3:30h sleep before we both ran 8 miles. Man was I dragging all day.
went to bed at 21:30 that night.
I missed a run last week too, did 7 miles today so I'm happy with that, my knees can go and complain to someone else
That's pretty good stamina running 8 miles after an early night
Just got back from the movies, went to see Ted with one of my friends from Uni, loved it!! So funny!!
My curiosity is killing me, who did you see in concert last friday?
Manchester Orchestra. A southern USA Rock band.
Everything to Nothing
Definitely not the things that I'm seeing
Did I think I'd see so instantly
I found a note in my grandfather's coat
When I read it out loud I got cold
'Cause he said:
I'm not complaining
I was just saying
I'm a man, I'm a lost one you see?
Come down with me to a place
We'll get clean
And we'll meet with them eventually
You mean everything
I don't know much but a crutch is a crutch
If it's holding you from moving on
I don't know what to do
Not anymore
Not anymore
And you
Well you mean
Everything
You mean everything to nothing
You mean everything to nothing
You mean everything to nobody but me
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUWepZoSSqYnot bad for a bunch of 24 year olds.
Mind you they are older now.
This was the song that caught me
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LoLOlQ3l8hMP.S. Mods. If links are not allowed please remove them.
Also got in watching reds tie sky blues
skrtel backpass was awesome... ugghhh
Hey not bad that Manchester Orchestra, might listen to a few more of their tunes later
I reckon you might have liked my friends band - they were signed to parlaphone in the mid nineties up to about 2001
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FqFQI0Y5ih4&feature=youtube_gdata_player Yeah it wasn't the best pass by Skrtel, he's all right foot and since our defenders are no longer able to hoof the ball, he's bound to make the odd mistake.
I'll forgive him though, he was outstanding last season and his header cancelled his mistake out anyway. Good result and I was happy with how we played, we've got the 2nd leg Europa league qualifier against Hearts tonight, which is on ESPN over here.
Had an awesome day today - my w took the kids to the park and my little girl has finally learned how to ride her bike!! She sent me a video and caught up in the excitement I asked her to ask if my daughter wanted me to meet her at the park on my bike so we could ride together. She said yes and we all had a great time at the park.
I'm off out tonight to meet up with a few of my friends and to watch one of them play live later on. When I was leaving the house my W said that my hair looked nice.
I can't remember the last compliment I got from her!!
Not reading anything into it other than enjoying it for what it was a compliment.
Just take it for what it is right now, a compliment. Be careful not to read into anything too much. With that said, I definitely agree that it is a positive thing.
What he said
Actions speak louder than words.
7 miles this morning.... too hot.... Hit the wall
Thanks Denver / Chatterbug
Yeah I'm not reading too much into it, other than it was nice to get a compliment.
Had a really good time last night, feeling it this morning only had 8 pints, but they were a mix of porters, real ales - so i'm feeling the dehydration - 2 pints of water, a coffee and a glass of coke and i'm still thirsty!! No headache though
7 miles is good enough, I did a good bike ride yesterday, gonna do 7 miles tomorrow morning.
Time for another coffee
Hey Bill,
Finally caught up on your thread. What a journey mate! It looks like you are taking control over your life and the changes in you are having an effect. Keep up the good work. don't pick up that rope.
Just a comment I have about your Ws unwillingness to drop OM her dance partner. My W is a singer/musician and a few years ago, when I discovered EA (with the drummer of her band), I put my foot down and told her that if she wanted us to stay together she had to quit the band. She fought it like crazy, often saying that she was fine with us splitting up, and it took so much for me to convince her to quit the band. She eventually did and broke off all contact with OM (We left the country). I thought we were out of the wood but the second we got back in this country (over a year later), VLAM!! BD and the she's back with OM although at BD she said that she could never be with any man other than me.
Back in those days, she would explain that the band was the best around and that OM was the best drummer and all of that but I now believe that there was a strong emotional attachment between them (which one might call love) and that the fact that it remained unexplored back then, drove her back to see what she had missed. Now she's caught in it, and I think she believes she's gone too far to come back.
I see a bit of this in your W. JMO
Bill crumbs are crumbs... Just remember actions speak louder than words. You will know when it is real.
ANd that is when she stops the dancing. And actively attempts to mend the marriage.
Anything less falls short of the goal.
Hi Arsene
Thanks for stopping by and comparing sitch's. Yeah my W has given me a lot of lame excuses about why she won't quit the dance class or stop dancing with the OM, similar to your W and the band.
I'll have to read your thread about what happened when you got her to choose you over the band to where you guys are now, before I can really comment on that, but i'm guessing it wasn't a straight me or him ultimatum?
Right now I know exactly where I am in my sitch, I'm happy with how I'm feeling now, I'm still working on me, but it really is just for me.
Emotionally I feel ready to give my W an ultimatum and move forward with my life whether it's with my W or not, but physically and financially I can't really back that up until my teacher training is over and I get my 1st job.
That's a year away and judging by this year a lot can happen in that amount of time.
Things might get better organically, my W could file, literally anything could happen and it wouldn't surprise me.
All I know is that things change one way or another, but nothing can be forced, we just learn as we go and if we can't save our Marraige, we save ourselves by using these experiences to make sure we don't make the same mistakes again in our R's.
So your W still snubs you about the OM? What other boundaries have you placed on her? You can't have boundaries without consequences. She's walked over and spit on your boundaries. What were you prepared to do?
Bill crumbs are crumbs... Just remember actions speak louder than words. You will know when it is real.
ANd that is when she stops the dancing. And actively attempts to mend the marriage.
Anything less falls short of the goal.
I couldn't agree more with all of the above.
Bill
Hi Bond
My boundaries were broken months ago, but at the time I was to weak to enforce them.
My W knows how I feel about her continuing to gave contact with the OM and right now I need to focus on my teacher training and getting a job.
Until I've acheived these 2 goals I don't feel like I could back up any ultimatum.
If it didn't go my way, I can't afford to file let alone the legal costs.
It's the only thing stopping me now from doing this.
Maybe you're right, the longer it goes on the worse it gets, but I do need to make sure my M issues don't get in the way of my teacher training - this is my future, no matter what happens.
Bill
The OM and the job search are two different things. While having a job is great, it won't woo your W back to your bed. Being decisive and knowing what you want is what is attractive. What does your W still say about the OM?
I get where you are coming from the 2 things being separate things. I'm talking about, where I would like to be giving that ultimatum, not because I think it will make me a better option, but more so I can back up my ultimatum and be independent if she chooses not to work on our M, I have the means to file and begin a new life single.
My W, will not discuss anything about the OM, so I don't know what is going on still.
You see my biggest worry is giving her an ultimatum and Not having the financial means to back it up, if it doesn't go my way.
But I agree continuing on this cycle is not good for either of us and waiting another 10 months to a year is probably not realistic, before we have this out.
"My W, will not discuss anything about the OM, so I don't know what is going on still."
You should find out.
"You see my biggest worry is giving her an ultimatum and Not having the financial means to back it up, if it doesn't go my way."
You should already be thinking about this.
Has she had any physical contact with you at all?
I agree that I should find out what's going on, what's happening with the OM.
You see the money side of things is already tied up. I'm in my final year before I qualify as a teacher, I can't afford to live anywhere else while I'm doing the course and I can't afford a divorce.
We haven't had any physical contact in 2 months, I stopped initiating anything because I wanted to stay detached and not get dragged back into limbo.
My W has not initiated anything either.
What's your thinking on this?
Don't sleep with a woman who sleeps with other men.... Serious Bill you know this already. It is bad for the health.
And as you said , you are working on your PMA and schooling.
Why are you second guessing your plan now ?
What has changed?
Don't sleep with a woman who sleeps with other men.... Serious Bill you know this already. It is bad for the health.
And as you said , you are working on your PMA and schooling.
Why are you second guessing your plan now ?
What has changed?
I think I just got caught up in a moment thinking about my sitch differently and started to doubt my plan.
I'm sticking to it, because it is working for me.
Thanks Cutter I'm ok.
So what do you consider yourself? I just don't agree with a man sacrificing his own self worth while his W is going out with another man.
Hi Mr Bond - just seen your post.
I know how I am dealing with my sitch is not the way you would handle it, but I've got to be realistic and be consistent with what works for me.
My W and I are not together and because of her continuing contact with the OM (in whatever form), we can't be together, hence the decision to not have any physical contact.
I know that I have a particulary hard year coming up with my teacher training & I have to be realistic about what I'm able to cope with right now.
If I'm honest I don't know if the goal is to get back together with my W anymore, so much would need to change and the trust and respect issues alone, would require full commitment from both of us to overcome.
Once I have finished my course & have my 1st teaching job, I will be secure and independent, then I will play my hand, right now I don't have the means to back it up.
In the meantime things may change, but my focus will be on me and my kids - I'm not pursuing my W in any way whilst she carries on dancing with him.
I don't like it, but then I don't have to like it, I'm putting up with it to secure my end goal which probably won't end up in R with my W.
Getting into this with my W right now, won't acheive anything positive for me or my kids, right or wrong I'm going to wait.
Bill
I see where you're coming from mate. In the end, only you knows what your sitch is like and what you can and can't do.
Just in the event that things go too far and you decide to drop the rope, you should have a plan "B". Do you have family/friends in the area who could take you and the kids in for a few months if things got out of control?
Are there things you cold sell right now which could help you get a place of your own for a few months? The thing is, no matter what happens you don't need to file for divorce right away. A separation would send the same message. That you are done. Again, I know it's not what you want now but in never hurts to plan ahead mate.
Just in the event that things go too far and you decide to drop the rope, you should have a plan "B". Do you have family/friends in the area who could take you and the kids in for a few months if things got out of control?
There are a few places I could stay with family and friends, but nowhere with the space for my kids. Being separated from my kids is the biggy for me, plus lots of advice from on here helped convince me that leaving my home (because of the children being young) was a bad move.
If things don't work out that's a reality I'm going to have to deal with, not having the kids live with me. For everything that has happened, I can't say that she isn't a good mum and no court would not grant her custody if it was disputed.
If things did get out of control & it was to the detriment of my kids I would probably move in with my sister or a friend for a bit.
We can still do things together as a family & have fun & talk about the kids and what's going on in our day to day. If anything our communication has improved so much over the last 7 months.
That side of our family life is pretty much still intact & all our issues are largely a secret to most family and friends.
So yeah I sort of have a back up plan, financially I don't (yet)but I'm getting there.
Thanks for the advice
Bill
So when you say that you and your W aren't together, does that mean she moved out? When you stopped ML with her did you tell her it was because of the OM? What did you actually tell her?
So when you say that you and your W aren't together, does that mean she moved out? When you stopped ML with her did you tell her it was because of the OM? What did you actually tell her?
I'll try and clarify a few things, I know it's not a straight forward separation.
We are still living together with the kids & still sharing the same bed.
When we last had an R talk 2 months ago I told her that I wasn't prepared to be part of any love triangle or open M and that we can't begin to work on our M while she is still dancing with the OM.
There was no direct ultimatum, I just stated I wanted no part of that - so I took all physical contact off the table.
In many ways I suppose we are still together, as in living together and the kids not knowing what is going on. I guess it's a secretive in home separation.
That's the best way I can explain it.
It's had no impact in terms of her stopping dancing with him, but I'm not taking that as a reflection on me, I know I'm good in bed
Before you bash me if it was an ultimatum I accept it was a weak one, but it's something I've kept my word on.
In my eyes we aren't together as husband and wife, whilst there is a 3rd party involved. I've stayed true to my vows & not pursued anything with anyone else, because I know it's wrong & it would just complicate things even more - which I know I don't need right now.
My sitch is what it is & this is where I'm at, I fully understand and accept that you would deal with it differently and I appreciate your advice, I'm just doing what I can.
Bill
"When we last had an R talk 2 months ago I told her that I wasn't prepared to be part of any love triangle or open M and that we can't begin to work on our M while she is still dancing with the OM."
And what did she say about that?
"There was no direct ultimatum, I just stated I wanted no part of that - so I took all physical contact off the table."
I can see she's broken up about that.
"I'm not taking that as a reflection on me, I know I'm good in bed laugh"
I think this is where you're getting misguided. Your W has an "emotional" investment with this man. It doesn't matter if you're a god in bed, if your W doesn't feel any passion towards you then there is no attraction. What have you done about that?
"Before you bash me if it was an ultimatum I accept it was a weak one, but it's something I've kept my word on."
And again, what you told her wasn't an ultimatum. You bluffed her with something that she really didn't care about in the first place, so she didn't feel like she lost anything.
How are your regular interactions together? Do you go out alone with her, have dinners, etc.?
When we last had an R talk 2 months ago I told her that I wasn't prepared to be part of any love triangle or open M and that we can't begin to work on our M while she is still dancing with the OM.
And what did she say about that?
She said that she was sorry, understood, said it was too difficult for her to talk about & just went quiet.
Your W has an "emotional" investment with this man. It doesn't matter if you're a god in bed, if your W doesn't feel any passion towards you then there is no attraction. What have you done about that?
My W does obviously have this emotional investment with this OM and with 2 of her friends in the same class who she is very close to. I'm not trying to justify this, I'm just saying that this is another factor in her not wanting to quit the class and break contact with the OM. I don't know for sure what the situation is with them now, all's I know is that she won't stop dancing with him or stop going to that class.
How are your regular interactions together? Do you go out alone with her, have dinners, etc.?
All our interactions are when the kids are around - we don't do anything on our own together. I've said in the past that this needs to be initiated by my W, so I know that she genuinely wants to spend time alone with me and not just appeasing me. Even if it was just coffee, that would be a start, but for me it needs to come from her.
Like I keep saying, I know what I want to do, but I am not in a position to do it & I am just accepting the situation for what it is.
There is no point in me making an ultimatum that I cannot back up, right now I am keeping it together, observing what's going on, but focusing on what I can control in my life, my studies and my relationship with my children.
I can't change what has happened or what is happening right now with my W, but I can keep on my path and when I get there, yeah it might be too late to save our M, but right now it wouldn't matter what I said or did.
The only thing that MIGHT change this is if I filed or moved out, I'm not in a position to do either right now.
If you had any other suggestions on how I can enforce boundaries, I'd really like to hear them.
I appreciate that you are asking me the hard questions and I'm not taking them personal, I think your a good listener and you say it as you see it and I like that about you.
Bill
Got my 2nd 5K of the week in today - plenty of time between now & the weekend to get a 7 mile run in.
I like doing 2 - 3 short runs & 1 long run (long for me), it's helping me a lot with my fitness, thanks for pushing me Chatterbug.
How are you getting on this week? How many runs & sessions in the pool have you squeezed in so far this week?
"it was too difficult for her to talk about & just went quiet."
Then you should have asked her why.
You keep mentioning an "ultimatum". No one said you had to do that. Establishing a boundary is different.
"The only thing that MIGHT change this is if I filed or moved out, "
No. Those aren't the only options.
Obviously there's something still bugging her. What is it? Have you asked her what is it she wants?
Bill.
You are only in limbo when you have no future.
You made the choice to concentrate on schooling for 9 months and take care of the kids.
You weighted the options at that time and decided what you knew yourself what you were strong enough to handle.
Quiet on the homefront , stiff upper lip and work on your future.
I do not think that you can handle being away from your children , schooling and Divorce all at the same time.
Maybe in a few months but not now.
As long as you see a future with you moving forward you are not in limbo.
Being in limbo is waiting around for your wife to pick you again for awhile.
What your doing now is difficult and if it gets to a point where you cannot handle it. Then go full swing in plan D and help her leave the home.
But do not ruin your schooling over this.
Your future will be fine as a single dad or as a married man with a wife who know's what she did and how it hurt you and your children.
Anything in-between is a waste of time or as we call it. Limbo.
Mind you I would start the process so I know that I am ready. But I am a believer of parallel paths.
At the time I didn't want to press on with that conversation, she was clearly uncomfortable & I didn't think pressuring her would be the answer.
You are very quick to recognise that my W doesn't respect any boundaries, because there is not much I can do to enforce them right now.
I can tell you this though Bond, I'm not getting sucked into this anymore, discussing my R with my W will not do anything but speed up a process I am not ready for on a few levels.
I know what I have chosen to do, doesn't sit right with you, but I'm not you I'm me. I know what my priorities are and I also get what you are saying about sacraficing my self worth, I'm ensuring my future and my kids future by getting through this year & becoming a teacher. When that's done I will have my independence, my self respect and the means to back up any separation or D, which until I have attained, a R talk will not serve any purpose.
Once I have acheived this, I will be ready to move on with my life, without any fear and it will be a clear choice to make.
Right now isn't about my W, it's about me, my future and my kids. She has made her choice by continuing to see him and I have made mine.
If you don't want to support my actions, choices and plan that's fine, but right now I don't want to go down the road that you are suggesting.
Hi Cutter
Thanks for chipping in here.
I do not think that you can handle being away from your children , schooling and Divorce all at the same time.
I know I can't handle this all at the same time. After I got the bomb(s) I couldn't function for 2 months in the last year of my degree. I had to suck it up, get through it all & put a brave face for my kids & I still got a 1st class honours degree.
I would not choose to go through a D or separation whilst I am in the position I am in & the amount of work this course will demand.
I like the way you talk about being in limbo, it makes sense to me, because I am not pursuing my W, if anything I have let her go now because of her choices.
I see how I want my future to be, if my W doesn't want to commit to R after I get through this year, then I'll accept it & move on with my life.
No more limbo, just progress.
Mr Bill.
4.5 miles. 30 minutes pool exercise and 15 minutes in the hot tub.
I do think when you have enough PMA under your belt that you should put the paperwork in place for the parallel path.
Not to be talked about. Just actions.
So this weekend I am going to do 9 miles. Go on a date with my lady. And hopefully have a few pints saturday night with a mate.
Catch some 2014 matches and get in some needed rest. Work on the website.
What are your plans.
There seems to be a disconnect in terms of what you think I'm recommending.
"When that's done I will have my independence, my self respect and the means to back up any separation or D, which until I have attained, a R talk will not serve any purpose."
I didn't say that you needed to have an R talk. What I've been trying to tell you is that you don't need a job to get your self-respect back. For some reason you wrap everything around a job when in fact it's within you.
Your biggest problem is fear. No job will prepare you for the emotional turmoil which is coming up. That's what you need to not be afraid of.
Once I have acheived this, I will be ready to move on with my life, without any fear and it will be a clear choice to make.
There seems to be a disconnect in terms of what you think I'm recommending.
"When that's done I will have my independence, my self respect and the means to back up any separation or D, which until I have attained, a R talk will not serve any purpose."
I didn't say that you needed to have an R talk. What I've been trying to tell you is that you don't need a job to get your self-respect back. For some reason you wrap everything around a job when in fact it's within you.
Your biggest problem is fear. No job will prepare you for the emotional turmoil which is coming up. That's what you need to not be afraid of.
Once I have acheived this, I will be ready to move on with my life, without any fear and it will be a clear choice to make.
^^^^ yup
Hi Denver and Bond,
Sorry but you know I have a lot of respect for both of you an your opinion, but I'll have to disagree with you guys on this.
Maybe I'm getting this wrong but I think Bill is worried about the financial aspect of things right now. Also, he doesn't think he's capable of going through this year of his studies while coping with divorce, the loss of his kids and the financial burden of moving out. Frankly, I don't blame him. He's doing everything he can to avoid this and this includes not making any waves.
We're told all the time to focus on ourselves. He is doing just that. He's not pursuing, he's not having R talks, he's not being clingy and he's trying to focus on his studies. I'm sure what's going on with his W might affect his self-worth, but no matter what one does, when an A (EA or PA) occurs, it is bound to affect your self-worth. He's actually doing what I wish i could do. Not wasting time and energy thinking about he OM.
Is what he's doing having a negative impact on his sitch? Maybe, I'm not sure but we've been told over and over again to try something and be patient until we see results, and then adapt. I think Bill feels comfortable with what he's doing now and he doesn't seem to be suffering from it so he's got the detachment to handle his sitch. IMO, that's good. In a month (or 90 days) he can always re-assess where he's at and how he feels about it, still no harm done, right?
Sorry, I know I'm a rookie at this but I'm reading this guys thread thinking he's doing ok. If he's not, I'm not sure I understand why and I would like to know (as he would I'm sure).
Thanks guy,
*sorry for referring to you in the third person on your own thread mate!!
There seems to be a disconnect in terms of what you think I'm recommending.
What are you recommending? Boundaries that I can't enforce with any meaningful consequences right now?
I didn't say that you needed to have an R talk. What I've been trying to tell you is that you don't need a job to get your self-respect back. For some reason you wrap everything around a job when in fact it's within you.
This would lead to an R talk. It's not all about self-respect, yes mine has been damaged, but I take heart with the fact that I'm on a road to recover this, the job is more than a job to me. It's not just a job, it will be an accomplishment I never thought possible 10 years ago. What it represents to me is a timeline, a big piece to my own jigsaw puzzle.
I can't commit to working on my M or a separation 100% whilst I am doing this. A bit like when you get that message on an airplane saftey demo - you put on your own oxygen mask before helping others.
I'm still fixing myself, whilst she is in contact with the OM, there is nothing I can do to fix my M as a R.
Your biggest problem is fear. No job will prepare you for the emotional turmoil which is coming up. That's what you need to not be afraid of.
I agree with this to a certain extent, but let me put it to you in other words.
If you were going to a climb a mountain would you just do it without any preparation, research or training?
I'd want the best equipment for the climb, want to know the quickest and safest routes and most importantly I'd want to be physically strong enough to make it to the top.
I'm not climbing a mountain, but the principles are still the same.
I really appreciate your input Mr Bond, but this where I am at and this is where I am coming from.
Bill
Great stuff Chatter
I'll bet after your run & pool exercise that hot tub felt great
I've just done 2 5K runs this week & I'm going to do another 10K on Sunday.
Sounds like you've got a fun weekend lined up, mine's a bit more low key.
I was gonna watch the England V Moldova game tonight, go out with the kids on Saturday & maybe catch an early kids movie with them on Sunday.
I'm pretty busy with some UNI work right now so I'm taking it a bit easy.
Yeah I've looked into how to file over here & the forms already. I can have them ready without paying any legal fees, that all happens once you file the petition for D. So yeah theoretically I could have all the paperwork ready & get it checked over by a solicitor (lawyer). Then I've got it waiting if I need it.
This is not really high on my to-do-list though right now.
Been in to my kids school where I'm going to be doing some class observations next week for my course, had fun catching up with some of the teachers who I volunteered with last year, so I'm in a good mood & gonna get stuck into to some work today.
Have a great weekend
Bill
Hi Arsene
LOL don't worry about referring to me in the 3rd person, that bit made me laugh when I read it.
Thanks for the support, I think it's all a matter of interpretation really. I know Mr Bond & Denver are just trying to help me and give me advice.
It's not always black and white though, there isn't a one size fits all approach to life & DB itself is open to interpretation.
Hey but thanks for sticking up for me Arsene, differences of opinion on here are the norm and that's what's good about this forum. People will call you out on stuff & it's all good because it all helps.
Hope you have a great weekend chief
Bill
Arsene,
Of course you disagree with my and Denver's advice because YOU are doing the EXACT same thing as Bill. Both of you are walking on eggshells around your Ws while they run around with OM.
What I was trying to get across to you was that you are letting the immigration issue run your life so you're existing in fear. If that reality were to happy, in the end you end up with nothing. Same as Bill and his job. The fact is that you feel like you need to be on better footing before you do anything. And what I've been trying to tell you both is that you already are on better footing. That comes from within.
In my sitch, my W's boss (her EA) came to my working place to get me fired and even tried to have me arrested for some bogus charge. At that point it didn't matter how much money I had, what my standing was with the company, etc. Here was a guy threatening me and my family. I knew my W was deep in her EA with this guy but once he threatened my family, NOTHING else mattered. I looked him square in the eye and told him that while I loved my job, my family took priority and so he could do whatever he wanted and to do his best. I didn't know if he actually had anything he could do and in fact he really did know my boss, so losing my job was a reality. But none of that mattered. As a man you find out what's the most important and say what you will or will not tolerate.
And for me, I was not about to tolerate this @$$hole any longer. After that he actually looked scared for a change and I never heard from him since.
The power to change you sitch, right now, is within you. There will never be the "right" time for things to be perfect. You find the strength within right now to be the change you want to see.
Sorry Bond. I still don't see it. You did what you did but what did you have to lose? This guy was coming after you. Show me someone other than my W coming after me and my family and nothing will stand in my way. For the moment, all I want to know is how Bill and my behaviour is not following good DB technique.
We are both trying t be very patient by giving ourselves a very long and if I may say so myself, realistic timeline, we are both trying to focus on ourselves (Bill is better at that than I am) and improve who we are on more level than one. We both have managed to semi-detach from our sitch (again, Bill is much better than I am here) and are trying not to see too much in what is happening. DR states that the affair must run it's course. I know that in many cases forcing the issue has had positive results but then again, it's also been said that one has to be truly prepared to lose it all before going on that road.
All I want to know Bond is how what we are doing goes against good DB. I honestly thought Bill and I were doing well, and following the advice from DR as well as the one given here by many.
Thanks Bond,
Bill, I feel like I'm highjacking your thread. I apologise for that mate.
Arsene. DB is not for affairs. Its actually not a great system for BH's as it makes you into a lapdog.
I follow the path of parallel paths.
Plan D and Plan DB. Plan DB is to rebuild PMA and protect the family.
But your wife is the enemy of this family. And you know what. Part of the plan DB is to realize that your thoughts on what you believe your wife is and who you wish she was is no longer reality.
Arsene you have been at this 2.5 years. That is your wife. She is a cheater. She will lie and she will pick OM over you and your D. That is who she is. Once the Affair starts the clock starts to tick.
The gaslighting and lies start. Then the fights and anger start. The excuses build up.
Then you find out.
This is when the parallel paths should start. Work on yourself and build up the strength and belief in yourself to realize that you deserve better. To be treated as a husband , not some dog on the side of the road. You see you need to regain your self respect. For you need to take control of your life. You need to define your path for moving forward.
This is where I see Bill at. He is working on gaining control of his life and defining his path.
Has he started his healing ? No. You cannot heal when you are living with a unremorseful cheating spouse. The clock ticks away and things will get worse with time.
You see your problem is that you have it all wrong.
You need to realize that they are the ones who lose out on this.
You were a loyal spouse.
You start plan D to do one of the following.
They realize what they are losing. So they try to work back into the marriage. You keep with plan D until their actions are consistent and repetitive on working on and restoring the marriage. Then you can pause it. And eventually kill it.
Or they get angry and leave... This gives you the space to heal and jump starts the process that was going to happen any ways.
Or they keep on cheating.... So you D them. They lose a loyal husband. You just lose a lying cheating wife.
The clocks keep ticking. Once you get to a point where you lay your path out.
Start the parallel paths.
The key is to move forward. On your own two feet.
For Bill. I think it would be in his best interest to start this process soon. As financially it would benefit him to D when his income is at its lowest. As his wife may have to pay him alimony until he has his career going. But this is one of those things that he needs to explore.
I started the parallel path the day I asked ladybug to stop the affair and work on the marriage.
If they say I don't know. You start parallel paths.
If they say No. You start parallel paths.
If they say yes I want to work on the marriage. Then you work on the marriage. But the first time they slip. parallel paths.
If you had done this Arsene you would have been further along than you are now. 2.5 years of emotional abuse is wrong.
If it was me I would keep on with school and kids. But at the same time I would start with gathering the paperwork that I would need for the D. I would start to separate fiances and I would start putting money away for it. Then come xmas after exams. I would get that first phase done and serve the papers ( lodge the divorce petition ). Then back to school and work on the next phase. Come 1 month before exams. I would cut all communication off until they were complete then I would push through the next phase. And when school was finished it would be right around the time when the decree nisi will be pronounced.
So I would time it to happen 1 or 2 months after school was finished.
Then the career would start up to fall into and the house would sell and co-parenting plan would all fall into place at the same time.
Or she stops the dancing and starts to work on the marriage. And I would put this on hold during study for exams. That is when she can work hard at getting back.
That is a time line.
Parallel paths.
Who is in control there ?
And what are you in control of ?
Thanks CB,
So as to not highjack Bill's thread any longer, I'll answer this in my own thread.
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...897#Post2278897Thanks Bill, and sorry about this.
I will stick to Bill's thread. It is a good place to chat and offer thoughts. Plus there is a ton of good old fashioned PMA here as well. Got my 9 miles in this morning.
Haven't got time to respond to all of these posts right now, but thanks for checking in with your advice.
Got my 7 miles in this morning!! 3 runs done this week - check!!
Spent a great day in the park with W, w's friend and kids - we all had a blast and even had a water fight at one point.
It was great to have fun like that as a family, stuff like this hits you hard because it feels so good, so natural and then wham you remember your sitch...
Cooked an awesome Chilli for dinner as well, man I'm a catch ;-)
Hey you've got to have a laugh at yourself now and again.
If I get chance I'll check in later with some more, if not I'll catch my DB brothers from other mothers tomorrow.
Bill
Hi Chatter
A few things you posted earlier have got me thinking & I wanted to get your opinion on a couple of things.
I started the parallel path the day I asked ladybug to stop the affair and work on the marriage.
After you asked her to end the affair, did you ever consider exposing the affair? I know it's not something MWD recommends, but a lot of other authors & sites promote it alot.
They say it takes all the excitement away & if the right person challenges them about their behaviour it can be a massive wake up call to what they are doing.
The more I think about my sitch, the longer I stand by and let this affair continue, the more likely we'll end up divorced.
What you say about DB for affairs is spot on IMO, I mean it mentions in DR on p216-17 about working out what needs the OP is fulfilling & it mentions keeping a low profile not discussing the affair or reacting to it, GALing & being the person they want you to be & they will hopefully come to their senses & realise the grass isn't greener.
This is a very emasculating way of dealing with an affair that is enabling the cheating spouse to continue their affair without challenge & is unlikely to make them stop the affair because it is being tolerated.
I'm a bit torn on continuing solely with this approach, (I mean DB promotes self improvement anyway) to the OM - but not 100% sold that exposing it (to the right people - not everyone) is the way to go either. (pro's & cons fest)
Gonna have to think this one over a bit.
Bill
BTW Arsene, feel free to hijack this thread whenever you get the chance
I'm just going to weigh in here a bit. I mostly agree with Bond and Chatter. As Chatter said, if the A is going on, you should be on a different path. Only if and when your W puts a stop to the A and says that she is willing to try, should you be on a path WITH her.
You can sum it up pretty easily, and this is what I told my W more than once..."I will not be an active part of your life as long as any OM is".
When he was, I lived my own life, SEPARATE, from my W. I sought my own happiness and tried to not worry or think about what my W was doing. She was no longer my concern during those periods of time. If she called me, I might answer. I would be polite but short. But there was no way in hell that I was going to hang out with her or provide her what a H provides a W while she was spending time with OM. There was no way in hell I was going to do that.
Where I differ from Chatter, and maybe Bond, is that I wasn't rushing to the courthouse to D my W. I wasn't worried about that either. I just lived my life the best I could.
YOU CAN wait this out while also enforcing a boundary that you will NOT be a part of an open M.
And yes, I think that is what you, Bill, are doing, and what you, Arsene, are doing.
And guys, I know how difficult this is. I just lived it.
A few thoughts here. Your wife works you do not. So do not affect her work.
It has been 10 months now.
So exposure now is kind of mute. I think you should let your parents know just so they can support you and your kids.
Her parents. Well how close are you ? I told her parents and it was hard. But I wanted them to know the truth.
And I told a few good friends who would remain on the side lines and support both of us.
If I knew they would pick sides then I kept quiet.
And I did it within 24 hours.
And the reason I did it was to support both of us. Now and down the road. And I did it within 2 weeks of finding out.
A race of the truth. And she was a combination of mad , ticked off , embarrassed and shocked.
My reason was to tell the truth and seek support. We had no kids but we had a niece and nephew on her side that were basically our children. At the time they were 17 and 14. And I told them.
My wordings were to support both of us. But not support the affair.
Personally this is a very personal choice. Heh
Once it is out there you cannot control it. Do not do it to force shame. Or to snap her out of it. You only talk to those who will help you and your children and your wife. No matter if your D or not. For they have unconditional love for all of you.
Now if OM was a judge or MC I would report them as they are abusing their position in society.
Michele has written some beautiful work here. Her words of 'DB' will improve your life completely with every relationship you have. I like to read her books every few months. Along with hold on to your nuts. They are a good balance.
You see she promotes a strong sense of self. It just gets lost in the execution from time to time.
The current conversations have done what the goal was.
For you to question your current moment.
So take that moment and look at your plans.
You know you can always file. That will say more than everything you have said and what your exposure will say.
IMHO. I would just talk to parents and a few close friends. I would say that you want them to support both of you. Mind you time line is stale.
And she will come at you on that. So you have to be ready on that.
D8 will need to know but you can judge when.
See your starting to realize about the ticking clock and her actions is causing you to lose your love and respect for her.
And I think you have that nagging feeling in the background of once a cheater...
But the good news is that you can still treat her as a lady. Be a gentleman. Honour the love you have for her and always make sure the kids know to treat their mother with respect and love.
I will stress. PMA and school is your primary goal now. Do not become undone.
So why are you wanting to expose now so late in the game ??????
Denver. I think I need to read your story. I would be honoured if you read mine as well. I enjoy reading your posts.
Denver. I think I need to read your story. I would be honoured if you read mine as well. I enjoy reading your posts.
You like horror stories eh Chatter?!
I would love to read your story. Somehow I'm guessing that the plot will be similar to mine!
It's funny that we never crossed paths while I was in the thick of my situation.
Darn edit.... Bond did not rush... Nor did I. Some times I think Bond is a yo-yo.....
But I respect his words. He speaks to you from the heart. I am sure he has a few good words about me. I hope he has respect for me as well.
Ladybug and I did not end up getting back together. But we left with no hate. Just a shared time together. I loved her deeply. She hurt me deeply. I forgave. But I will never ever forget. Scares run deep. Very deep. But scares can be overcome. Tough thread Bill. You remind me of me. You will gain a ton of wisdom here. I see you making this more than the affair and possible D.
I see you making this about your life. Growing up and finally becoming the man you want to be.
Parallel paths
Hi Denver
Thanks for the input
I lived my own life, SEPARATE, from my W.
I'm doing this to an extent but it's hard because we still live together.
But there was no way in hell that I was going to hang out with her or provide her what a H provides a W while she was spending time with OM.
Did this include time spent with your SS? Did you do everything on your own with him? I'm just asking because this is the only time we spend together outside of the house.
YOU CAN wait this out while also enforcing a boundary that you will NOT be a part of an open M.
I feel like this is what I am doing, but I need to take Bond's advice about enforcing boundaries,
I know how difficult this is. I just lived it.
You went through a lot Denver in your sitch and I get why you stuck it out so long to get to the point you are at right now.
A big part of me feels that I owe it to myself to try & hang in there as long as possible. By that I just mean leaving the door open to a R if my W will commit to working on the M.
I don't justify the affair because of our joint failings in the M, I just see it as another barrier to overcome.
I am working hard on myself physically & emotionally to be a better me, a better dad and a better man.
There will come a point if this affair / contact continues when I won't be able to leave the door open and I'll need to move on.
Thanks Chatter
I was a little restless last night thinking about my sitch & looking for different ways and approaches for dealing with the affair, whilst using DB to work on me.
I went back through my threads & re-read what I actually did when I got the bomb(s) and I couldn't expose the affair then because of the damage it would do to the reputation of my W and my kids mother and how it would be another obstacle to overcome if we did get to R and piecing.
I think the only person who may make a difference if I exposed the affair to would be my MIL. We get on pretty good and 4 years ago her husband FIL cheated on her and me and my W helped her get through that & he ended the affair because of death threats from her family. He moved out for a week & then came back, they don't have the best R, but they are still together. She is a big believer in M, meaning death to us part & I know she would do everything she could to support us staying together as a family and pressure my W to end her affair / contact.
I'm not sure if I should do it, because I think after reading your reply and my own thread, it may do more damage than good for my sitch, this could horribly backfire & speed everything up.
I have decided to keep on pushing through with my own personal goals:
1.better PMA - feel good, act positive - be positive.
2.improve my fitness & appearance. lose some more weight & tone up, get a new wardrobe ($ permitting)
3. improve my listening & validating skills. (using a summarising sentence to respond and not tring to fix everything)
4. Be more patient with my kids when they are demanding - try to spend some more 1 on 1 time with them.
5. Put everything into my teaching course - pass it, get the career, get that job satisfaction & financial independence again.
6. Stop to enjoy the moment once in a while, appreciate something each day.
7. Be more decisive and assertive when communicating with my W, stand my ground, have faith in my convictions. - I will try this out with making my own plans for the kids next weekend - taking them to a movie & then round to my parents for dinner. I will tell my W what I am doing with my kids without checking if she had plans or seeking her approval.
I feel so much better for just putting out there some of the things that have been cycling around my head lately. I've got some clear goals to follow that will help me on my DB path for me & my own personal growth.
I have to start preparing a plan D (having paperwork ready, separate finance), but that will be on my timeline unless something changes.
We have always had a joint account for all our standing orders, salary coming in, that would be something I'd need to weigh up how to go about right now in this moment.
I mean it could spook my W and oil up the gears on her plan D, which is definitely not what I want, I need to be the one who files if it comes to it, otherwise it'll just be a process to end everything and not an action that demands a reaction.
Bill
I mean it could spook my W and oil up the gears on her plan D, which is definitely not what I want, I need to be the one who files if it comes to it, otherwise it'll just be a process to end everything and not an action that demands a reaction.
Bill
Sorry Bill, I'm not sure that using D to get a reaction is the right thing to do. It sounds like a tactic to me. I guess it might backfire and you might not get the reaction you expect. I think you should file for D when you are done. You might get a reaction but if you do, it'll be up to you what you do with it. You might not even be interested anymore when/if it comes.
When Denver filed, he'd had enough and was starting to look forward to life without W. W did come back within a month I think but that is not why he filed. JMO
Hey Arsene
I see where you are coming from and my wording does make it sound like a tactic.
If I filed I would genuinely be done, and I would like to edit that sentence.
Filing for me would show my wife that I was done and she would need to deal with that action.
If it gets that far, it won't matter if there is or isn't a reaction - I would be moving on with my life one way or the other.
Thanks for pulling me up on that Arsene
Bill
Bill you always need tactics for a plan.... Else your having tea.
Filing shows your wife that your are done. Done with being an option.
It shows that you understand your vows. Its a hard thought.
So 10 months in.... Do you think you need to say it again. Or do you think that you need to just work through your thoughts and act upon your decisions?
There is really nothing to confuse. Wife cheating + 10 months = file...
Nothing to explain. If she asks that is what you say! So instead of talking about it. Just work and go to school and then one day you are confident enough and you go and file.
How often besides once do you need to explain the dis-respect?
And since you have said you have read the laws in England You know about the pauses... You can move it and pause.
Hey CB, it looks like we're always on different sides or things.
While I understand what you are saying, it just doesn't sound like DB to me. It's more of the Dobson approach, which I'm sure works in many cases but "tough love" can easily blow up in your face and you have to be ready to accept that as a possibility.
Although I'm not totally eliminating it as an option, I think that people all have a different breaking point, when they know they put in everything they've got and they are ready to "drop the rope". It's always a personal choice and no one should be made to feel like they are a doormat for sticking with the techniques prescribed by MWD.
Still, it's always good to hear that there are different options available. Thanks.
I mean it could spook my W and oil up the gears on her plan D, which is definitely not what I want, I need to be the one who files if it comes to it, otherwise it'll just be a process to end everything and not an action that demands a reaction.
Bill
Sorry Bill, I'm not sure that using D to get a reaction is the right thing to do. It sounds like a tactic to me. I guess it might backfire and you might not get the reaction you expect. I think you should file for D when you are done. You might get a reaction but if you do, it'll be up to you what you do with it. You might not even be interested anymore when/if it comes.
When Denver filed, he'd had enough and was starting to look forward to life without W. W did come back within a month I think but that is not why he filed. JMO
That ^^^ is correct. Bill, you can be done with be disrespected, even be done with your M completely, and not file.
In fact, I never actually filed for D. I was done. True. I completed the paperwork and had it notarized. True. It was ready to file. True. But I did not file. When my W told me that she believed that filing was the right thing to do (a couple of weeks after me telling her that I was ready to file), I sat on it all. The reason that I did was simply because I was actually enjoying my summer and didn't want to start that process and potentially ruin the rest of it. I was going to wait a few weeks, maybe even a couple of months, and then go ahead and do it. It was during that period that W came back.
But see, she knew that I was serious. That I truly had reached the point of being done. Even though I had not actually filed the paperwork.
It was more what was going on in my head, in my heart, that showed. What caused her to know. What caused me to know that I was going to be okay. And what caused me to finally feel that I was okay with either outcome.
It can't be a tactic. You tell someone that you are going to file for a D, you better be prepared to be divorced.
You can take a tougher approach, you can set boundaries, without filing for a divorce.
Even the end requires patience and cannot be done in haste.
And darn it Chatter, I have your story pulled up and ready to read, but I didn't get to it this weekend.
I know that you and I aren't quite on the same page with what Bill should do, but I hope that you know that I respect your opinion.
Ultimately, Bill will do what he decides is best for him anyway.
Sorry to talk about you as if this isn't your thread Bill.
Weird how chatter and I never crossed paths during my situation. Anyway... off to bed.
Denver
4 miles today bill.
Good PMA on that run. Listened to the queen jazz album.
I agree with Denver. See it's possible to establish a boundary without threatening to expose or a D. That's what I've been trying to explain to you.
Whoa, got loads of posts to reply to.. gonna try & get back to everyone tonight.
Arsene, I'm going to reply to you first
It's always a personal choice and no one should be made to feel like they are a doormat for sticking with the techniques prescribed by MWD.
I think there's alot to read into this statement, firstly I agree with you completely that this is your sitch & no matter what advice or intentions people have on here, ultimately it's YOU who has to live with the consequences of whatever plan you follow.
The part I've highlighted in bold sounds like you feel that the feedback you've been getting from some people on here (myself included) is making you out to be a doormat.
What you've got to remember about people's advice and criticism on here, is that is offered, but noone has to take it if they don't want to. Everybody's input is based largely on their own personal experience, to quote Morrissey,
How can anybody possibly say they know how I feel? When they are they and only I am IThe biggest difference to your sitch that makes it unique from other threads that I am aware of is the issue of your residency and contact with your D8 reliant on your W. That is a huge weight on your shoulders that only you know how much it influences your decisions in dealing with your sitch.
You have more to lose than just your marriage here, your R with your daughter, being in her life, being her dad is also in the balance.
I wish you the best Arsene & hope it works out for you, no matter how you approach busting your divorce.
Trust your instincts & your gut when you are in doubt, let the advice you get here inform your choices not influence them.
Take care chief
Bill
Hey Denver & Mr Bond
This is something I do need help with - setting boundaries.
You can take a tougher approach, you can set boundaries, without filing for a divorce.
Some of the things that I would like my W to do in no particular order.
Wear her rings again
Stop dancing with the OM & any other contact with them
Stop shutting out my parents & my family from her life
Make a commitment to work on our M
Now all of these listed are things that I would have thought needed to be done by choice by my W instead of boundaries, if anyone wanted to chip in with possible boundaries & how to enforce them for these things or other things I've mentioned in the past I'd really appreciate it.
Thanks Bill
"Wear her rings again"
Stop dancing with the OM & any other contact with them
Stop shutting out my parents & my family from her life
Make a commitment to work on our M"
I think you're getting things mixed up. These aren't boundaries. In fact, these are things that you CAN'T control. These have to be conscience choices made by your W. Especially the rings and the family issue. You can't demand her put on her rings and you definitely can't force her to like your family. There is free will involved.
Hi Chatter
This made me think
So 10 months in.... Do you think you need to say it again. Or do you think that you need to just work through your thoughts and act upon your decisions?
I asked myself if I wanted to file now & I couldn't commit to it. As far as I have come towards this possibility I'm not quite there yet.
I know what I'm doing in terms of fixing myself & this is a work in progress, which keeps having things added to it.
I think I'll know how much more I can take of this behaviour from my W, when I know. Right now I'm not ready to file and I'm focused on my kids, me & my studies.
I will put my plan D on hold, in terms of timeline, but make steps to have it in place.
I'm looking forward to GALing a load more & starting this course is going to be great for my PMA.
Had my first day in a school today on my preliminary attachment before I started my course and it went really well. I can't wait to get stuck in & actually teach.
I don't think I'm gonna get my 1st run in until Wednesday with how my week is mapped out, getting 4.5 miles in today is a great start to the week though Chatter
Bill
Hi Bond
Yeah that's why I said straight after listing these things
Now all of these listed are things that I would have thought needed to be done by choice by my W instead of boundaries,
You are quite right they are all made by choice and free will, what things did you have in mind that I could enfore boundaries on?
First of all, what are your goals? The short term ones.
For example, if your GOAL is to have your W go out with you for coffee, one on one, what are you going to do to achieve it?
Eventually you can make your goal for her to wear her rings.
In terms of boundaries, what are the things that you can't tolerate? State them. Then you don't encourage that behavior. Say you won't XXXX if your W continues to go out with OM. Like if you're paying for the class, tell her you won't be doing it any longer with your family's money. She can do whatever she wants, but you are not going to let it be a part of your life.
Things like that are enforcable boundaries. You don't need to threaten D.
First of all, what are your goals? The short term ones.
For example, if your GOAL is to have your W go out with you for coffee, one on one, what are you going to do to achieve it?
Eventually you can make your goal for her to wear her rings.
In terms of boundaries, what are the things that you can't tolerate? State them. Then you don't encourage that behavior. Say you won't XXXX if your W continues to go out with OM. Like if you're paying for the class, tell her you won't be doing it any longer with your family's money. She can do whatever she wants, but you are not going to let it be a part of your life.
Things like that are enforcable boundaries. You don't need to threaten D.
Absolutely agree with Bond.
Boundaries are things that YOU can control. Example, "I won't be a part of your life as long as you are dancing in that class and/or having any contact with OM."
THAT is a boundary that you can put in place and YOU can enforce.
"I want my W to put her rings back on" ... that is a goal for you, but only your W can make that choice.
See the difference?
It's always a personal choice and no one should be made to feel like they are a doormat for sticking with the techniques prescribed by MWD.
I think there's alot to read into this statement, firstly I agree with you completely that this is your sitch & no matter what advice or intentions people have on here, ultimately it's YOU who has to live with the consequences of whatever plan you follow.
The part I've highlighted in bold sounds like you feel that the feedback you've been getting from some people on here (myself included) is making you out to be a doormat.
Perhaps it's because I do feel like one at times mate. Sorry if I got defensive. Like everyone around here I'm going through a lot and I'm never sure if I'm using my head or simply following my heart. What you've got to remember about people's advice and criticism on here,
is that is offered, but noone has to take it if they don't want to. Everybody's input is based largely on their own personal experience, to quote Morrissey,
How can anybody possibly say they know how I feel? When they are they and only I am II know. I realise this. Probably a bit insecure these days. It feels like I'm getting criticized from all directions. Apologies are in order. Sorry folks. Thanks for trying to help. - Good quote!The biggest difference to your sitch that makes it unique from other threads that I am aware of is
the issue of your residency and contact with your D8 reliant on your W. That is a huge weight on your shoulders that only you know how much it influences your decisions in dealing with your sitch.You have more to lose than just your marriage here, your R with your daughter, being in her life, being her dad is also in the balance.It is one of the biggest issues I'm struggling with. That's why keeping the peace sounds pretty good right now, at least until I'm in a better strategic position.I wish you the best Arsene & hope it works out for you, no matter how you approach busting your divorce.
Trust your instincts & your gut when you are in doubt, let the advice you get here inform your choices not influence them.
Take care chief
Bill
Thanks Bill.
Hi Bond
"if your GOAL is to have your W go out with you for coffee, one on one, what are you going to do to achieve it?"
This is one one of my goals, but at the moment it is at odds with me trying not to be my w's back up. I mentioned that when I was having IC that it was a big deal for me that my W would need to ask me, so I'd know she wanted to be there.
Maybe I need to set something a little smaller as a goal, need to think about that one.
As far as a boundary for not being part of my W's life whilst she is in contact w/ OM, I'm trying to understand what that means in my sitch, still living with my W and my 2 kids.
I've stayed firm about no physical contact, but we still talk about the children and our day and general talking. It's hard for me to be clear as to how I can enforce boundaries concerning with the OM.
Saying I will not be part of my W's life, when I can't really avoid living it in my sitch confuses me as to what else I could be doing.
I do want to try and give M another shot, but the longer this goes on the harder it is getting to maintain this desire to work things out.
I am happy with how things are going in other parts of my life, my next personal goal is to get better at staying in contact with my friends and family, making more of an effort.
I know this is stuff I need to work out for myself, it just makes it easier hearing what other people would and have done in similar sitches.
Bill
Hey Arsene
Don't beat yourself up mate, it's normal to be up and down with your PMA with everything going on, there is a lot to lose at stake.
Do something for yourself today and post it here.
Bill
"I mentioned that when I was having IC that it was a big deal for me that my W would need to ask me, so I'd know she wanted to be there."
This isn't going to happen. If you want the M, YOU have to put in the effort for now.
"Maybe I need to set something a little smaller as a goal, need to think about that one."
How many more examples do you need? Everyone has offered suggestions, but you don't want to listen and just want to follow your "plan".
"As far as a boundary for not being part of my W's life whilst she is in contact w/ OM, I'm trying to understand what that means in my sitch, still living with my W and my 2 kids."
Again, how many more examples do you need? Look, you don't have to D your W, you don't have to separate, etc. If there is anything that has to do with the OM, such as bills, time, etc. you don't accomodate. Don't pay for the lessons, don't babysit while she goes out, etc. You've told her you feel disrespected, now act on it.
"I've stayed firm about no physical contact,"
There's no loss for her it seems.
"but we still talk about the children and our day and general talking."
This is fine.
"Saying I will not be part of my W's life, when I can't really avoid living it in my sitch confuses me as to what else I could be doing."
No one said you had to be completely cut out from it.
"I do want to try and give M another shot, but the longer this goes on the harder it is getting to maintain this desire to work things out."
Yes this happens all the time. Basically because you haven't set any goals and have a subconscious timeline.
"it just makes it easier hearing what other people would and have done in similar sitches."
At what point do you stop listening and start doing?
Hi Bond
I'm sorry for being a bit slow on the uptake about boundaries and wanted to say thanks for being patient with me and spelling it out.
" If there is anything that has to do with the OM, such as bills, time, etc. you don't accomodate. Don't pay for the lessons, don't babysit while she goes out, etc. You've told her you feel disrespected, now act on it"
I get it now and thanks for explaining it so clearly.
I can't post anymore right now as I'm in school and about to go back to a class of hyperactive 5 yr olds
Hey Arsene
Don't beat yourself up mate, it's normal to be up and down with your PMA with everything going on, there is a lot to lose at stake.
Do something for yourself today and post it here.Bill
Funny you said this. I've been thinking about stuff all day and decided to start doing the things I can do with no money (I'm more than a little short these days - until pay day at the end of the month).
In my early posts I mentioned I'd like to give back to the community around here as a huge 180 (all the years I've been here I never really spent much time with my neighours) and I decided that I could build a playground for the local kids. It just happens that the house I just moved in has a huge back yard but it's filled with rubbish of all sorts (looks like the remains of an old building that's been demolished).
I don't know when I'll be able to buy material to build the playground but I decided to start clearing the rubbish, by hand. Put in an hour today, after my meditation and my hour doing laps at the pool.
It felt great. I haven't done that much physical work since I left the army 25 years ago.
Also, on my way back from work tonight, I dropped by a local cafe and managed to get a gig starting next week. I'm not sure how often I'll be playing but it's an hour per night 9-10. Now I just need to get my repertoire polished up.
Thanks for the support Bill.
Hi Bill,
I've not been around much - focussing on career stuff lately, but I check in from time to time.
Mr Bond gave some good advice here. In particular:
"I've stayed firm about no physical contact,"
There's no loss for her it seems.
With women, it's the emotional connection that is important, and this would be 'backed up' with the physical.
I've still be thinking about how to overcome this status quo you have found yourself in, other than moving out and/or not being emotionally involved, I can't think of anything else.
What other goals are you setting for the R?
You sound well otherwise
Hi Yankee
Thanks for keeping an eye on my thread and chipping in here.
I struggled to get my head round some of the things Bond was saying, maybe it was because I didn't want to hear it, or was convinced I'd tried all that I could. I know that I haven't & have a long hard look at myself.
I am happy with some of the progress I've made in other areas of my life, but by and large most of that has just been to 'get back on the horse' so to speak.
I know that I can do more to make a change in my sitch & I have been given lot's of support on here from many people. Everyone on here has something different to offer in terms of advice and experience, but we are all different & sometimes we need to go with our gut.
Last night I thought about what Bond had said and re-read the 2nd & 3rd chapters of DR - Starting with a beginners mind & Knowing what you want.
This has helped me to start writing some goals which I am going to post here, now if I have the time or maybe later on tonight or tomorrow (when I get the chance). I want to carry on reading more of the DR book again tonight as a lot of the messages were missed on me first time round.
I have 4 specific goals ready - with bullet points for each as to how I will achieve them.
As for boundaries, thanks to Bond's suggestion I now know what I could do in regards to dancing & the OM - enforcing this is a sore subject for me, because of how flexible my wife is being accomodating my new ever changing schedule, changing her hours so I can attend UNI or school placements.
I could try to enforce a boundary, saying I won't be here to watch my kids whilst you are dancing with OM, but if I did this my W would not accomodate my changing schedule & I could not rely on others to pick my kids up & mind them without paying for childcare, which I cannot afford right now. I am not going to act on this possible boundary just yet & will post my goals that I want to work towards whilst I am still living with my W and kids.
Goal 1. Communication - I want to be more open, assertive and communicate my day to day and how I feel without worrying about my W's reactions.
Plan for Goal 1
- Initiate conversation after my W is home from work. After dinner I will make a hot drink & start the conversation asking about my W's day & telling her what the kids have done
- then I will share what has happened in my day, discuss any upcoming plans.
- If my W wants to talk I will listen and validate as much as possible.
- I will remain positive during all interactions.
Goal 2. Use my Initiative - I want to be more outgoing, doing things for my W and children, planning through my own inititive - not being asked to do things I know I could be doing and doing them without expectations.
Plan for Goal 2
- Morning time, I will continue to be more considerate to my W of a morning - offering to make tea & breakfast, packed lunch whilst I am making one for the kids anyway.
- I will offer more compliments, genuine ones, when my W has got ready to go somewhere without any asking or hinting for them (pay more attention).
- I will make a to-do-list of things that need doing in the house & try to knock one of them off each month.
- I will clean the car & hoover it once a month, check oil, water & tyre pressure - I will do this with the kids to teach them what I am doing & this will be another sign of showing I am concerned with my W's well being & safety (as I rarely drive the car & it gets her to work & back).
There is more to continue here, will post later - got to go
Bill
Goal 2 plan continued- I will take more ownership of our finances by drawing up a budget & look for ways to make the money coming in go further for more enjoyable things, such as days / nights out, clothes and hair and beauty treatments.
Goal 3. Organisation - I want to be more organised, manage my time better so I can be available more to my W / family and friends.
Plan for Goal 3 - I will keep on top of my Uni work better by organising my workload and assignments into mini tasks - looking for ways to maximise the use of my time to get them done quickly (especially when I am not with my W and children).
- This can be organised with to-do-lists and targets in my diary. For example, I will finish my introduction to this essay (500 words) by tomorrow
- I will prepare clothes & packed lunches the night before, so we start our day not rushing & I will then have time to make a drink, fix breakfast.
- My goal is to keep 1 full day at the weekend free to spend with my kids & will make it fun with things like going to the local park, movies, museum, visiting friends & family.
- The knock on effect for this is that my W will have the option to join us if she likes, do something in the house, relax or do something for herself. It is also win - win for me as I will get to spend a fun day with my kids every week
Goal 4. Spend time with my Wife alone together outside the house - This could be walks, coffee, shopping, eating out, dancing, movies, days out, breaks.
Plan for goal 4 - -After monitoring the results of my 1st three goals for say a month or so I will ask my W out for coffee / breakfast on a Saturday or Sunday morning - making all of the arrangements for childcare & where & when.
- I will ask this without fear of rejection & stick with the first 3 goals & leave it another month before asking again if she says no.
I will monitor progress of all 3 primary goals and start a new thread like Zig's for goal setting.
Feel free to chip in with any advice or criticism, I think I can give these 3 goals a real shot whilst I am at home - goal 4 is really just something to aim for in the future.
Thanks Bill
a few of the bullets there are looking like your announcing that your still in limbo. Just waiting for the A to end.
I also notice that one of your goals is to reward your wife the morning after her dancing with the OM.
Your actions will speak loud here.
I think your starting to regress. A month ago you decided what you needed to do to move forward. Now it looks like your planning a holding pattern.
You are setting goals to reward your wife to continue having her cake. Serious Bill.. Hair treatments.... Why not emergency funds and barrier fee's
I never understood that smile and treat them like they are the most amazing person in the world when they are disrespecting you.
"Honey you look amazing. I hope you had an amazing time disrespecting the family and hurting me to the core tonight. Breakfast in bed tomorrow ? I have that manicure scheduled for you tomorrow. What oh... Ok I will get it scheduled for Friday afternoon next week."
Come on Bill. Your better than this.
Work on yourself and university. Work on the house and your children. Be polite and civil. But no R talks. No being super upbeat all the time. You will become a gasket ready to explode.
What happened to these goals ?
I want to be a strong role model and great father for my kids.
I want to be a great teacher.
I want to be financially and emotionally independent again.
I want the next chapter of my life to be my best chapter.
I want to be the best ME I can be.
I've got a long way to go on this journey & either way whatever happens between me and my W, I know I'll be OK.
I have to be for my kids and for me.
_________________________________________________________________
Have you truly pulled away?
I think if you follow these current goals that you are just going to get stuck.
Parallel paths.
Yeah... I understand what you are trying to do Bill, but I gotta agree with Chatter. I know that you have been pounded with advice contrary to what you are doing. You may want us to shut up now. Like me, there comes a point when you are going to do what you are going to do. Damned the advice.
Hi Chatterbug
I slipped, thinking I could do more in terms of my efforts to make my W see what she was throwing away. Some of those goals were written when I was upset after an argument with my W yesterday about changing plans at uni for w's work.
Some of those goals I had written, when I read them this morning are ridiculous, but my emotions were all over the place when I started to write them.
I like some of things I was talking about concerning communication and organisation, but everything else was fuzzy thinking.
We followed up yesterday's fight with an apology from me that led to an R talk, I'd had enough and instead of dodging it I asked all the q's I wanted answers about OM, what she wanted and you can guess the rest.
I got all the scripted answers, we both got upset, my W wishes she could get past her resentments to work on us, but she can't. I told her how much what she had been doing by bringing a 3rd party into our M and that whatever we do now will be hard.
I can't write much more this morning, i'm rushing for school but we are at the very least going to now separate.
I got confused on my path, wobbled and now it is clearer.
I am not going to fight this anymore in terms of staying together - I am better than this and I am dropping the rope, no ifs or buts.
I'll be ok - I knew this would happen sooner or later.
Bill
Sorry it had to come to this mate, but you seem to be taking it well enough considering. This is where these old goals will help you pull through. I know you'll be fine.
What happened to these goals ?
I want to be a strong role model and great father for my kids.
I want to be a great teacher.
I want to be financially and emotionally independent again.
I want the next chapter of my life to be my best chapter.
I want to be the best ME I can be.
I've got a long way to go on this journey & either way whatever happens between me and my W, I know I'll be OK.
I have to be for my kids and for me.
Take care mate!
Thanks Arsene
I feel very tired and drained today - we were up talking until after 3 in the morning and I had to be in school for 8 today.
I feel a lot better knowing where I stand with my W about so many things we haven't talked about. I'm not devastated, I've been working towards letting go.
Yeah, I doubted my plans, but never put any of those new ones I posted when I was upset and confused into action (luckily).
I know what the next steps are now and I cam build on that.
I don't need any 'told you so's' or advice about what went wrong, it's been put to bed for now.
The focus is back on the here and now, me and my kids and my teacher training.
Thanks Bill
Bill if we knew each other in the alt. We would be friends. So I was speaking to you one friend to another.
Goals are simple write out.
Write a goal. Then write out the smaller steping stone goals to get you there.
1. Graduate University.
1.1 Be Organized for class.
1.1.1 create a calendar to track all assignments , projects and tests.
1.1.2 Input all assignments , projects and tests to the calendar within 12 hours of receiving them.
1.1.3 Update progress on all projects and assignments.
Like that.
Simple and to the point. With many mini goals to push you to the over all completion of the main goal.
I am sure you can find your style on it.
Keep emotions out of goals. Keep them simple and attainable. Work in what to do if you get side tracked.
Hi cutter
Bill if we knew each other in the alt. We would be friends. So I was speaking to you one friend to another.
Thanks for that, I needed it and feel like we'd have fun hanging out in that alt world
I really don't know why I doubted myself and my plans, they were a moment of weakness and it's a lot simpler for me now.
As hard as that talk was last night with my W and knowing that it's a huge setback in terms of any possible R, I'm actually taking some positives out of it.
Instead of wondering what is going on with my W, I now know exactly where I stand.
I gave my W a choice to work on our M and stop the contact with OM and she said she couldn't do it.
My W asked for a trial separation and I agreed that it was best if we weren't together if nothing is going to change on her stance.
Now it's more of a practical exercise of working out money and logistic as to how we are going to make this separation financially possible. In the short term I might recommend splitting our time in the house with the kids, maybe she stays 4 nights and I do 3 nights with the kids.
This way the kids aren't uprooted and they still get to spend time with both of us, this would be until I could afford a place big enough for the kids to stay.
Nice tip on the calendar, i'll have to do that with my uni work
Bill
Bill. Do not leave the home. It is the family home. You are not the one who stepped out.
Lead by showing your children the man you are becoming.
Since she asked for a trial separation.
She is free to leave. The children stay.
They can sleep over on weekends when the place is ready.
Do not help her find a place. Do not help her find furniture.
DO not raise one finger. Do not give her a single shilling to fund the place.
Trial separation means that she wants to take the affair to the next level. Could be dancer could be someone else.
Trust me on this.
Stand tall here and protect your children and your home.
Wow, I actually agree with CB on this. Maybe we're not that far apart as I thought we were after all.
I'd say she's the one who wants to leave and is unwilling to work on the M, that's her decision. It has nothing to do with you and you shouldn't finance it either.
I'm sure my W resents the fact that I've got a nice house to live in with D8 while she's sleeping on a mattress on the floor of some boarding house. Tough. It's her choice. Another thing is, when it was time to separate our stuff (car, computer, etc..) i made it clear that these had been purchased by the family, for the whole family. If she wants out of the family, she can go and re-buy that stuff. What we had before is for the family. By her actions, she's already adding an extra financial burden on the family so there is no reason why she should be helped. If she needs it, she can always ask OM.
OK, I admit it. There is still a tiny bit of anger left in me.
Thanks for the advice Cutter
I think I need to do some more research into where I stand legally with all of this in terms of our joint mortgage, accounts and debts before I make a decision as to what will be the best for me.
I'm not just thinking of myself I am also thinking about my kids - because there will be so much time spent away from the home this year with my studies and placements, that realistically I wouldn't offer my kids the stability they need. This would be the case until June at least.
I think the best thing for me to do right now, would be to get some independent advice (financial & legal) to inform a really big decision.
If the circumstances, timing was different & I had qualified - was on a salary and a working pattern that matched my kids I know that I would be the best option in terms of supporting my kids in the family home.
Right now, my circumstances are a reality that need to be considered, because my children's welfare is the most important thing to me.
I have to be honest with myself and look at the bigger picture, a house is just bricks & stuff - it's my kids that makes it a home.
I'm not saying I'm going to do this or that, I'm saying that ultimately their needs come before mine & I need to research what I can & can't feasibly and legaly do before I decide what is best here.
You've got my back & I really appreciate you looking out for me.
Bill
Bill you have your family to support you as well.
When anything is presented to you.
Your first thoughts are
Why I cannot do this.
Plus worse comes to worse. The children can go stay for a week or two at the other place. You do not want to set yourself up here to be a glorified uncle.
I think your starting to understand the parallel paths.
It allows you to realize that you have options.
Wow, I actually agree with CB on this. Maybe we're not that far apart as I thought we were after all.
I'd say she's the one who wants to leave and is unwilling to work on the M, that's her decision. It has nothing to do with you and you shouldn't finance it either.
I'm sure my W resents the fact that I've got a nice house to live in with D8 while she's sleeping on a mattress on the floor of some boarding house. Tough. It's her choice. Another thing is, when it was time to separate our stuff (car, computer, etc..) i made it clear that these had been purchased by the family, for the whole family. If she wants out of the family, she can go and re-buy that stuff. What we had before is for the family. By her actions, she's already adding an extra financial burden on the family so there is no reason why she should be helped. If she needs it, she can always ask OM.
OK, I admit it. There is still a tiny bit of anger left in me.
^^^^ Nice!!
I'm liking the way you are looking at it Arsene.
Bill you have your family to support you as well.
Yeah, I'm gonna need the support of my family through this - that's for sure. Even if it's just picking the kids up from school & sitting with them before I get home - it all helps.
When anything is presented to you.
Your first thoughts are
Why I cannot do this.
You're right I need to look at these things that are barriers to my goals and try to remove them 1 by 1.
Plus worse comes to worse. The children can go stay for a week or two at the other place. You do not want to set yourself up here to be a glorified uncle.
There is no way I am going to become that type of figure - I'm their dad, I'll be there as much as I can for them.
The goal is to have them with me as much as possible.
Great advice as always Cutter
Have a great weekend mate.
Bill
How are things Bill? No news for a while. This board has been very quiet this weekend. Hope all is well!
Hi Bill,
Just checking in to see how things are going. I've caught up on your sitch though, and hope you are feeling ok.
Take care,
Yankee
Hi Bill,
Here is a good article written by MWD that is very helpful in your sitch.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/michele-we...17l0.5.5.2l12l0