Barn's burnt down
now
I can see the moon~Masahide
Life is good. Nothing much new, continuing to work on me. My sons and I continue to build our R into something better, stronger. The success of that is due to my letting go and accepting them as the people they are. They are great people but I'm a recovering controlling-perfectionist, so they could always be just a bit better to my previous way of thinking.
I had an interesting conversation with my IC yesterday. I never really showed gratitude or appreciation to my kids for doing what was "expected" because that was hmmmm, minimum standards and you only got gratitude/appreciation if you went over and above.
Didn't want to coddle them.
What utter BS! We all want to be appreciated and seen as valuable.
Holding back appreciation in expectation of better output is controlling.
Getting rid of that need to control is a bit like killing ants. You swat and swat and still they come, seemingly out of nowhere. Then you get some spray and that seems to work for a while, but then 1 appears, then 2, then 3. D@mn!
You have to follow them to the source and take action there.
Same with my controlling tendencies, find the source and work on that.
Father's Day came and went without a ripple around here. I worked 14 hours that day, not that I had any other plans. The sons didn't see H on Father's Day. I felt a bit sad about that.
But that's between the 3 of them.
Just some rambling journalling.
Great discovery in IC bug.
A mutual friend of ours had an ant problem and would advise you to stomp those M-Fers until they are dead.
I love that we both have IC on the same day, and come to our own realizations early on in the week
Sounds like you had a good one! I am a recovering controlling perfectionist too, I can relate
Working on getting to the source is a great way to see it, knock it out for good!
Glad you had a good weekend overall
I am with you in the recovering controlling club. I've found that space and non pursuit works well with teenage boys too. When I don't ask or prompt, he sometimes just does things on his own and that makes me happy!
I made it a point to randomly say that I enjoyed his company yesterday. I, too, am foraging a new R with him.
Hi, I'm Vera, and I'm also a recovering controlaholic.
Bug,
You know its funny what you said about appreciation.
It is very important to say what you appreciate instead of taking normal everyday things for granted. It makes you feel better as well as the person receiving the gratitude.
Personally, I am still trying to get used to hearing the thank you's for the day to day stuff that I do...
Stuff that I don't feel is above and beyond...
One of the things that I have learned is that living in gratitude is how we are supposed to live and it actually brings more good things your way.
Have a great day.
Yes, cat, I am learning more about gratitude everyday.
And not just gratitude for the good stuff but also the not so good stuff.
Case in point:
Barn's burnt down
now
I can see the moon
Hi, I'm Vera, and I'm also a recovering controlaholic.
lol
i'm a recovering one, too. it's funny that there are so many of us on here.
i'm wondering if this need is what caused our anger? and where did it come from?
I'm noticing a trend here.
I began to realize how much disappointment, discontent, blame I invited into my life by trying to control everything.
Because I can't control everything and when things didn't go my way, who did I blame? Who was disappointed? Who felt like a failure over and over?
I read this yesterday:
Macho sports-types like to say that failure is not an option, and in a totally not-macho way, they’re absolutely right. After all, we all have different definitions of success, and while individual skill is a factor, so are luck, fate, and a mess of other circumstances that we can’t control and/or overcome completely. So if you can’t meet certain expectations or fix pressing problems, the good news is, failure is not an option; if you do your best with whatever it is you actually control, judging for yourself what that is, you can never lose (F*ck Feelings)
Yes, SIAS, I was thinking of her when I wrote that.
Hi, I'm Vera, and I'm also a recovering controlaholic.
I can certainly resemble this remark. The operative part being recoverING. I think there's a lot of freedom in realizing that you can't control someone else's actions.
I began to realize how much disappointment, discontent, blame I invited into my life by trying to control everything.
Because I can't control everything and when things didn't go my way, who did I blame? Who was disappointed? Who felt like a failure over and over?
Yep. I know what you mean. When you lay down those bags, the disappointment, discontent, and blame all go away.
I had an interesting conversation with my IC yesterday. I never really showed gratitude or appreciation to my kids for doing what was "expected" because that was hmmmm, minimum standards and you only got gratitude/appreciation if you went over and above.
Didn't want to coddle them.
What utter BS! We all want to be appreciated and seen as valuable.
Holding back appreciation in expectation of better output is controlling.
Getting rid of that need to control is a bit like killing ants. You swat and swat and still they come, seemingly out of nowhere. Then you get some spray and that seems to work for a while, but then 1 appears, then 2, then 3. D@mn!
You have to follow them to the source and take action there.
Same with my controlling tendencies, find the source and work on that.
You have no idea how much I needed to read this today. Just no idea. Thank you for being you and sharing what you're learning about yourself. I always learn something about myself by reading your thoughts.
Love ya Bugsy!
Reading these posts--- it has taken me so long to realise how my actions and words were perceived as controlling. My H used to say to me I was preaching. I guess he meant I was telling him what to do...I.e. Being controlling. I never saw it. Didn't 'hear' him. I used to be so stressed out with worry.
Let go.......
Barn's burnt down, now I can see the moon
Wow...I guess Masahide was even better at finding the silver lining than I am?
I actually stopped by beacuse of the title, I thought for a brief second that the barn on fire was an alternative version of "Ladybug Ladybug fly away home..."
and I am a nursery rhyme; fairy tale junkie...
I am also...like many of you a recovering control freak.
It also hit me while reading this...just how helpful not having a working edit button is in this regard...well for you guys : ) I have been sorely tempted at times to fix my posts so it doesn't read like English is a my 3rd langauge. Yes Jack speak English gooder.
I have been able to resist so far.
"have been sorely tempted at times to fix my posts so it doesn't read like English is a my 3rd langauge. Yes Jack speak English gooder"
Jack I thought you were talking abut me here^^^.lol. Just ask Labug.
So our jobs now is to become slobbs, right? I'm well on my way.
Jack I thought you were talking abut me here^^^.lol.
Rick, I understand you....because of Jack
: )
So our jobs now is to become slobbs, right? I'm well on my way.
Well, if you want I suppose. : )
I look at it more like: To give up control of that which truly doesn't matter. To give up the illusion of control of that which you simply cannot control anyway...and to not miss either one.
Well I still can never understand Rick.
If I never met him I would assume he had Vienna sausage fingers.
He does speak his own language.
Barns burnt down now I can see the moon. It will be my mantra today
Hey BK Babe- Hope all is well!
i'm definitely a recovering perfectionist controlaholic too!!
I began to realize how much disappointment, discontent, blame I invited into my life by trying to control everything.
oh yes. too bad we couldn't see it when we were doing it as control. i can barely remember the reasons and feelings i had back then which made me that way.
in my own soul searching i found that fear and insecurity were behind it. the need to control all these minor things was a substitute for not feeling in control of my life. the more i work through my deeper issues, the more easily i let go of what and how others are doing things around me. because the more i deal with and resolve the underlying fear and seeming lack of control, and become more confident in the ability to take care of myself fully and not depend on others for it, the less i need to cling to them in emotionally unhealthy ways (like controlling)
so i'm finding out now, that the ability to let go and detach is really linked strongly to how much i'm still trying to "control" external events, and that is linked to the inner work i still have to do on myself regarding my own fears and insecurities.
i love the haiku that you found , labug - it's beautiful, a little bittersweet, but beautiful
zig
Hey Bug, just popping in. Catching up on the thread. Love the title and the reminder of finding things for which to be grateful. ((((bug)))).
in my own soul searching i found that fear and insecurity were behind it. the need to control all these minor things was a substitute for not feeling in control of my life. the more i work through my deeper issues, the more easily i let go of what and how others are doing things around me. because the more i deal with and resolve the underlying fear and seeming lack of control, and become more confident in the ability to take care of myself fully and not depend on others for it, the less i need to cling to them in emotionally unhealthy ways (like controlling)
Couldn't have said it better myself.
The other pearl of this process is learning that holds true for all relationships (including children). We should never be so enmeshed as to depend on others for our sense of worth, or our happiness.
Had a discussion with friends yesterday about priorities in M and how we have become very child-centric. Everything is about the children. What do you think the most common response would be if you asked husbands and wives what their priorities are? I'm thinking for many it would be family and/or children. How many would say my wife/husband is my #1 priority?
Then when a break-up happens, it's "how can he/she do this to the children?"
So little effort is put into the R that is the foundation of the children's happiness. I think that by making the M a priority, it follows that the children will get what they need in most cases.
Other thoughts?
[quote]
I am also...like many of you a recovering control freak.
It also hit me while reading this...just how helpful not having a working edit button is in this regard...well for you guys : ) I have been sorely tempted at times to fix my posts so it doesn't read like English is a my 3rd langauge. Yes Jack speak English gooder.
I have been able to resist so far.
Yes, I admit, I will create a whole new post in order to correct one word.
Baby steps ...
I agree labug. One of my biggest sources of pain is that i did not protect my children's needs because I did notninvest enough in my R with H. I am just as responsible as him for the pain they are suffering. If my M had been safeguarded, my children would have been too. And thats the most important thing
labug, bustingout - i realized that about not working on the r to safe guard the marriage early on in the sitch. it was like a light went on.
we were so focused and child-centric, or at least i was, that we totally forgot to take care of, as you say, the very foundation within which it was even possible to have the child/children
and yes we are just as responsible for the breakup as the lBS . i said that to h right from the beginning. only slight problem , of course, is that the difference from that point onwards is that the LBS wants to fix that and the WAS absolutely doesn't.
this is a great discussion here. thanks labug. it actually helped me to do a little precious 180 last night. i'm going to go write about it on my thread
aahh - letting go of control - sweet stuff
zig
I'm off to the cool mountains today for a break from this he!!ish heat. I have a friend who has a house in the pines and she and I are going to read and talk and eat and watch movies. I'm taking my bike and will get some good rides in.
First I have to tackle the drive! I'm not good with heights and have to descend and ascend this crazy river canyon full of twists and turns which lies between here and there. I hate it and drive slowly and carefully (not too slowly) which means people who drive it more often fly by me and get right on my tail waiting to pass. I usually settle myself behind a semi and let them lead the way.
But I will have fun and I'm taking my laptop so I can check in occasionally.
Not one grammatical error, crapp. Bugsy go and have a blast
probly missed a coma here an ther.
Sounds like a wonderful getaway. Have a great time!!
that sounds wonderful - have a great time.
zig
probly missed a coma here an ther.
LOL
Have a wonderful time !!!
Now that sounds like a great little trip! Bon voyage! Don't be on the laptop too much
hi bug, i caught up on this thread today and learned once again from your journey. thank you. i hope you have a great time in the pines. i could not help but wish we could be bicycling together.
how are you bug? you have been busy posting your much appreciated gems of wisdom on other threads... hope you are taking good care of yourself and doing well! ((( )))
Just wanted to say thank you. You know why.
Hope you enjoyed your getaway labug!!
Please let us know how it went!
thanks..for everything (((bug)))
Thanks for the well wishes. I had a very nice time in the mtns, it wasn't as cool as it usually is but still very pleasant had some very nice bike rides. Otherwise I read and friend and I solved a large number of the world's problems. You can all feel safer now.
Her H was there and he is very like my H even in body type and personality. I've been very interested in couple interactions since the BD and it is so glaringly apparent to me the things that I didn't do in my M, both good and bad.
The number one thing I didn't do was show my appreciation enough. I think I journaled on this topic here but in an IC appt I talked about not doing that with my kids. They didn't get appreciation for doing the baseline stuff because that was expected and I know I did it with H also. That doesn't mean I never said TY for little things but I just didn't make it a habit. My appreciation for having them in my life was not always apparent. I've changed that.
Also, they did a lot of light touching when sitting next to each other, Things like holding hands or just lightly putting a hand on the other's arm.
It's been an up and down week work wise because I'm trying to work through some issues with my second job so I'm a bit unsettled around that.
I saw H last night as we needed to sign some papers to get the ball rolling on refinancing the house. He agreed to it readily and as the initial request needed to be in by today to lock the rate, I texted him yesterday afternoon to see if he wanted to meet me somewhere to sign. He texted right back with "I'll come up." I replied "I can meet you at *bux if you don't want to come all the way here." We don't live far apart but he had been working all day and has to drive quite a ways to get home from work. He texted "No, I'll come up."
He was here for maybe 90 minutes. We talked about inconsequential stuff and a little about the refinance. I talked about all the fun things I've been doing. All very pleasant but it's always so surreal because here we sit chatting away as if things are peachy, both still wearing our wedding rings so we look very married but there's this elephant in the room that neither of us mentions.
I'm not so good with the unknown, not having control. I'm working on it.
And yes, I did have expectations, I tried not to but I did as I could tell after he left.
As he was leaving I made eye contact and said "It was good to see you." It made him nervous and he brushed it off (can't remember what he said) He very clearly didn't say it was good to see me. So I have to fight my black/white thinking and not make the whole interaction about that.
It was good to see him but I did want to ask "Are you happy?" because he doesn't look or act happy. Yes, that's me mind-reading but I'm mind-reading a man I lived with for 33 years.
So, there it is. Not great, not terrible. I need to look at this as the glass is half-full. That's work for me.
LaBug, I think your interaction went pretty good. You showed that you are still living your life.
Those darn expectations! Glad you recognized it. Now you can move on to more fun and exciting things!
Thanks Ro, my sister from another mother.
Yes, I have this anxiety in the pit of my stomach that wants me to do something even if it's the wrong thing. I know I will get over it but sh!t, I've been at this a long time and I know it's not over because things aren't better yet!
So I'm making a list of baby steps.
6 months ago
1. he wouldn't respond to texts from me.
2. he wouldn't have come to the house.
3. he wanted either to sell this house or to get his name off the deed/loan.
4. he hasn't talked divorce
5. he has never spewed.
6. he doesn't do crazy.
7. there is no OW
Must keep these things in mind.
Thats a great list labug. Seems like a good way to stay afloat. I might give it a try myself.
I'm glad you had a good trip. I did wake up feeling safer this morning in fact. ;-)
Good take aways from your trip w/ the other couple. I find myself observing couple dynamics all the time as well and find myself learning from them and wishing to have another chance to put some of what I've learned into practice.
As far your time w/ h. Any interaction that is not negative is positive to me.
Why did you not want to ask him if he was happy or not? What is the worst that could happen?
As u said Bug, u have been at this a while and I totally respect you for it. That is a great list of positives, no matter how small, BUT (sorry Mach)
-Your H is not filling any emotional needs for you and I know you are filling as much as you can for yourself but do you have a pull to want to have intimacy, companionship, partnership, etc..?
What's that anxiety pit in your stomach stemming from?
I'm finding lately that my own personal needs (the ones that I am unable to fill myself) are starting to become more important to me than waiting for my w to make a decision to re-connect. This is very strange for me because I have always been a giver as well as co-dependent.
I'm also having an issue w/ the lack of communication (not saying u are). We haven't had a r talk in 6 months or so and I've decided recently that that is not working for me.
I have been very diciplined w/ the DB principles and have not initiated any talk because I want her to make the decision to discuss things w/o my influence but it is to a point where it is not working for me to discuss things every 6+ months. Not communicating is what got us where we are.
I'm not projecting my sitch on you but it is working for you to not discuss anything at all for so long?
Are you hesitant because you are waiting for him to engage or are you being stubborn and/or scared to bring anything up?
Your personal growth has been inspiring Bug.
OK sias, thanks for those questions, I have to think about this and will get back.
interesting questions from SIAS...
ok.. i think i've been missing a few comas here and there too..
and i'm sorry.. but ants are a huge problem! but i showed those suckers who's boss! the sightings are few and far between these days.. but i think they're just laying low.. waiting to pounce when i've become too comfortable... when i think i'm ok....
Why did you not want to ask him if he was happy or not? What is the worst that could happen?
Fear. I don't know the answer and as I said, the unknown is a scary place for me.
-Your H is not filling any emotional needs for you and I know you are filling as much as you can for yourself but do you have a pull to want to have intimacy, companionship, partnership, etc..?
Yes, yes and yes. As I've come further on this journey and unearthed, unleashed the real me I want to have a real, loving R. I like being married, I miss sharing my life with another person. I would like it to be him.
What's that anxiety pit in your stomach stemming from?
Again, I think it's the unknown. I'm changing and it may be that I'm getting to the "this isn't working for me" stage of the journey and that's unsettling.
In the past, I've always handled unsettling things by changing something, and changing them sooner rather than later. In many ways I created chaos around me. Chaos may be too strong but things were never quite settled because they weren't perfect yet. I kept adjusting trying to get to perfect and then I could relax.
And guess what, I never got there. That put a lot of pressure on the marriage because H is a pretty settled kind of no drama guy.
So just sitting with things and letting events unfold is a challenge for me.
I'm not projecting my sitch on you but it is working for you to not discuss anything at all for so long?
Are you hesitant because you are waiting for him to engage or are you being stubborn and/or scared to bring anything up?
I have been waiting for him to engage.
Not stubborn but a little scared. I'm not ready for the end because even tho the attachment is only by a filament, it's still there.
Your personal growth has been inspiring Bug.
Thanks, sometimes it amazes me and I know there's more to come.
And thanks for taking the time to challenge me.
This just came to me: Being vulnerable scares me.
i kow!
isn't it funny when we feel ok we're so okay but when the vulnerability hits - oh my , it's like in seconds we are totally ungrounded
when i think of it that way - no wonder our WAS's are so scared to attempt another shot with us
hope you're having a good day bug
zig
This just came to me: Being vulnerable scares me.
Me too! For me it's all about being in control. I can't be vulnerable AND control the situation. LOL
Me, three! However, my H has told me that when I'm vulnerable is when he feels close to me. So I'm trying to let my defenses down.
Been a crap weekend so far.
I'm hoping that as in the past when I go over these bumps in the road, I come out much better than I was before.
I need more GAL activities, scheduled GAL activities.
I was feeling really "alone" yesterday. I've never really been alone in my life. I have my kids and they love me but they have their lives and they shouldn't be my emotional support. I have no close family, geographically or emotionally. My parents are dead. I do have some great friends but that has its limits.
I have to figure this out and be OK with being alone. Most times I am but it really hit me yesterday.
I did a bike ride yesterday morning and saw H in a chance meeting. I stopped by my friends house who is on my route. They are building a tiny house and I've been a part of that. I hadn't seen it in awhile so thought I would check out the progress. This was early in the morning and sometimes I stop by and don't even see my friends, I just check things out and leave. However, they were up and out feeding the horses and other chores.
Friend and I checked out the house and then sat talking about many things. She's always been our real estate agent so we discussed refinancing and appraisals and interest rates. About that time H walks in, he's been helping them with the electric and had come by to finish up. She told me later that she was expecting him today, not yesterday.
He interrupted our conversation (not in a rude way, just by the fact that he walked in) and didn't acknowledge that (very unlike him). He didn't really acknowledge me, just started talking to friend. She then walked outside to get the things he needed and I hung around a few minutes to finish up on our conversation and also to let H know what she had suggested about the refi. I said goodbye, friend said goodbye, H didn't.
He was uncomfortable and a bit rude. So why even stop by? I could chalk it up to his being surprised to see me but he knew I was there, he had to have seen my bike (actually his bike) as it was right by the gate he had to open to get onto the property. He could have easily turned around at that point and no one would have known he was ever there.
My tolerance for this is just very low this weekend. I've been in this "I want to confront" mood for a couple of days and this just makes me want to scream "What the ef are you doing? This is what you wanted. Be happy! Stay the ef away from me."
Help me get past this bump in the road wise friends so I can keep moving along.
((( )))
this is a long, long road and i think it is natural to get tired and confused.
your last few posts made me think that something is brewing within you.. some change or step of growth.. and it is uncomfortable bc you don't know where you are going yet. and there is aways an element of pain in those steps..
maybe look at the feelings under the anger from yesterday's encounter with H.
GALing is great but I wonder if you also need some of this time to let things evolve inside you.. I know sometimes I use GAL too much to distract and I end up feeling less okay just being.
sorry, bug. their anger is so hard to take. it's especially hard when you haven't done anything to deserve it other than exist on the same planet (or so it seems).
he will just have to work it out, himself, or let you know what the problem is. from what i've been reading in the book about codenpendency, codependent people are people (like me) who "let other people's moods control their emotions..."
the author goes on to say, "if my husband is happy, and i feel responsible for that, then i'm happy. if he's upset, i feel responsible for that, too. i'm anxious, uncomfortable, and upset until he feels better."
your husband's attitude and feelings are his own choice and his own to deal with. you are not responsible for his choices and his feelings or his behavior. if he's rude, it's because he's rude, not because you are breathing the same oxygen he's breathing.
(((bug)))
I don't think he was angry just confused maybe. He is not a rude person that's why his demeanor yesterday was remarkable. Very out of character.
grace is correct, I am the one with the anger and it comes from fear. Fear of being alone, fear that this is really over, fear that I can't fix this.
Fear because it's out of my control.
Yes, I have all the codependency traits, used to go to weekly CoDA mtgs. Maybe I need to get back to them.
zig wrote this:
or was that the wrong attitude and perspective? was it a huge effort for me because i'm always wanting something else than what there is right now? was it a huge effort because i'm the one messed up in this and h is actually just floating along not giving a rat's a$$ about anything
Friend and I were talking about this same thing yesterday before the real estate stuff, and I actually began to cry because it relates to what I said earlier about creating chaos in search of perfection and only then I could be happy. (CoDe)
If I'm waiting for perfection, I'll be waiting a long time, huh?
i love your answer ss - gosh look at you!!
labug
(((( )))
i think ng is right - something is evolving within you - and you can ride it out . the "i want to confront" mood - i think it takes over sub-consciously - i'm beginning to see it as a defense mechanism within myself. when i have to face something within myself, which is difficult - then my own self-protective mechanism kicks in, and i start looking outward for things to focus on so that i can try to avoid the growth and the pain of it.
eventually the lesson or growth is forced on one anyway - but the fighting part of it that we do, just makes the process that much more painful.
so don't fight what's brewing within you - as pema says, lean into it and the less you resist it, the less painful the bump will be.
so hang in there, friend, and just try to float a bit until it passes, and trust that it will pass and you will be one step closer to yourself
zig
Again, I think it's the unknown. I'm changing and it may be that I'm getting to the "this isn't working for me" stage of the journey and that's unsettling.
In the past, I've always handled unsettling things by changing something, and changing them sooner rather than later. In many ways I created chaos around me. Chaos may be too strong but things were never quite settled because they weren't perfect yet. I kept adjusting trying to get to perfect and then I could relax.
And guess what, I never got there. That put a lot of pressure on the marriage because H is a pretty settled kind of no drama guy.
So just sitting with things and letting events unfold is a challenge for me.
wow, thank you for writing this. you could have been describing me. Remember when I talked about my wacky schemes and plans, the next big thing. I thought it was part of my fun personality, the fact that I was a DOer. I don't look at it that way anymore. If I was planning something (a big party, a vacation, a move, a new job) then I didn't have to just exist with myself in the everyday. I read something (don't remember where) about how planning something like a vacation to have something to look forward to in order to escape the reality of right now. And I realized how true that was. I would get back from travelling and need to book the next trip.
I really enjoyed your list of what's changed in 6 months or the positives about your sitch. I think it's KEY to write down and keep a list of the positives. It's very easy to think that because the sitch isn't where we want it that it's bad....but actually it has come a long way whether in communication or personal growth.
thank you for sharing!
If I was planning something (a big party, a vacation, a move, a new job) then I didn't have to just exist with myself in the everyday
Always changing something and moving on to something else meant I never had to look to see what was really going on inside me.
hmm - your response to what brit wrote - made me think immediately - isn't that exactly what the WAS is doing
WE are not doing that now are we? We are just slowly slowly uncovering all these little things and seeing them for what they are and learning and growing and allowing all this understanding
we should hug ourselves and each other (virtually!!) for being able to do that.
zig
Wherever you go, there you are.
My weekend improved.
I went to work yesterday and was able to do some mindless work and some meaningful work. That helped.
All the advice and support here helped.
It's when I lose sight of my SELF that I fall in those holes. To be expected occasionally, I guess.
I did watch 2 interesting movies yesterday. The Artist, which I thoroughly enjoyed. It's black and white, mostly silent, takes place 1927-1932. Loved the costumes, the setting, the hair, the story.
Jeff, Who Lives at Home (Jason Segel, Ed Helms) is not the wacky brother movie you might expect from these two. It's quirky, humorous and touching, but also a bit simplistic. Gave some interesting views of relationships of all kinds.
Fear. I don't know the answer and as I said, the unknown is a scary place for me.
[quote=labug]
Again, I think it's the unknown. I'm changing and it may be that I'm getting to the "this isn't working for me" stage of the journey and that's unsettling.
I have started to question my fear of the unknown..Is it truly the fear of the unknown or has your imagination filled in some unpleasant scenario of the unknown and that is what you fear?
I'm starting to think that mine is the latter.
Messed up the quotes, I'm still a rook
hey bug, i picked up key mo's cd "reflection" and love it. thank you for making me aware of his music.
grace-love that keb mo!
sias-maybe...
But I'll write more about that later as i think there's a lot of stuff shifting in me (and it's not the burrito I had for dinner last night).
I've had lots of emotion this week, some tears, some sadness and it scared me for a bit but I think it was grace who advised to just let it happen.
I have been and there's some stuff coming up that's been with me forever. I think I'm finally in a place where I can see this clearly and get moving to where I'm meant to be.
It's a bit scary.
I'm tired because my sleep has been interrupted by this so I'm not ready to get into it here now but I will...I will.
I got a suitcase, I take it everywhere I go
People I got a suitcase, I take it everywhere I go
It's a big old bag of trouble, I don't need no more~keb mo
i know that song!! was just listening to it the other day and laughing!!
((( ))))
trust and let it flow right through you and as it does it will wash away the old -
visualize yourself cleansing from the inside.
hugs bug - and blow off some fire crackers as part of the "ritual"
zig
It's a while since I've posted to my thread. There's been a lot going on with me as stuff was shifting and sometimes you just have to sit back and let that happen.
I used to try to control those shifts and force myself in certain "acceptable" directions. Acceptable to the outside world, not always what was best for me.
I made a career decision that was scary and freeing at the same time. I quit a job (I had 2 jobs). Taking it was based on money, acceptable and seen as a smart move by the outside world but not a good fit for me. This has been a pattern with me forever; I somehow felt that if I wasn't miserable in some way, I wasn't working hard enough.
The job I kept fulfills me in so many ways and gives me time to pursue other things, GAL things. The pay is not as good but it gives me so much more and I work with a wonderful group of women who have been incredibly supportive of me throughout this journey.
I was also concerned about how people would see me as I changed direction. Yes, I've always had the need to be the smartest, fastest, jumping highest kid. It's time to let that go.
Passed time, really.
And now that I've cleared out some of that junk, who knows what new things await me. I was keeping myself burdened by that baggage filled with judgement.
I've done a lot of reading here during this time and I will affirm that this is a tremendous group of people who post here regularly. To those who don't read other threads (and you're probably not reading this one but I'll say it anyway)
you are missing out on so much.We've all heard the Joseph Campbell quote: "We must be willing to let go of the life we planned to have the life that is waiting for us." I would always follow that up in mind with "Yeah, but..." We know where that leads.
Another Campbell quote that speaks to me because my path was always laid out, step-by-excruciating-step and I have the checklists to prove it:
“If you can see your path laid out in front of you step by step, you know it's not your path. Your own path you make with every step you take. That's why it's your path.”
“If you can see your path laid out in front of you step by step, you know it's not your path. Your own path you make with every step you take. That's why it's your path.”
Where is my "LIKE" button!
^^^^ thank you - i'm putting that up on my wall
labug - you lead the way......quietly
Thank you for the new post-it quote Bug
and the book suggestion on my thread. (I just ordered it on Amazon.)
Pema had a birthday this weekend and there is a video on her site with instructions for a day of retreat. I listened to it while bicycling this weekend.
Funny... I turned down two opportunities to work more over the past month. In the past I would have grabbed at least one. But I have realized that I was so focused on securing our future and "advancing" that I was missing out on enjoying the now.
I am glad you are in a work place you enjoy and that you have carved out time for you, Bug.
Letting go of the baggage that weighs us down, what a wonderful picture in my head and heart today. Thank you, Bug
“If you can see your path laid out in front of you step by step, you know it's not your path. Your own path you make with every step you take. That's why it's your path.”
^^^ Love this!!!
One step at a time bug
A great finding yourself and expressing your voice message. Good for you labug!
you gave me an image today, bug.
with each step i take running,
with each bicycle pedal,
with each swimming stroke,
with each tear,
with each moment of gratitude..
(and the list could go on and on)
i am letting the baggage go, freeing myself to move forward on MY own path..
i wish i had thought of that before i went running today...
thanks, bug
“If you can see your path laid out in front of you step by step, you know it's not your path. Your own path you make with every step you take. That's why it's your path.”
Wow...just wow....
I have said before I identify a lot with you. The controlling over achieving thriving in chaos so you're always looking outward not inward. Thank you for posting everytime you have an insight I learn so much from it. Thank you for sharing!
“If you can see your path laid out in front of you step by step, you know it's not your path. Your own path you make with every step you take. That's why it's your path.”
I hadn't heard this one, but I love it. I discovered Campbell's other quote last summer after my BD. I was so busy planning my SS's college fund and our retirement that I didn't enjoy the present.
I like this quote because it's a reminder that there is no one correct choice because it's my own path. I am forging my own way, one step at a time.
I think this'll make its way onto the bulletin board above my desk also.
Thanks!
Hi Labug!
I've been missing you. Glad to hear you are doing what makes you happy.
I got some of Pema's books. I am loving reading her. Learning so much. So much to still learn!
Aloha,
Wendy
Thanks Wendy and SBR!
I realize I didn't mention my R/H in yesterday's post. Hmmmm
Things are status quo. We talk when we need to, he responds to emails and texts, no anger, no spewing. Not surprising, tho. That's him. Still waters run deep.
I realize that I have to give him space to begin to trust that I am no longer the fear-filled, controlling, angry mess that I was 16 months ago. He took a lot for a long time so it would be silly to think that it would turn around in a few months. He has noticed the difference in my R with our sons. That change has come about by me dropping the rope with them, giving them the space to make their own decisions and removing myself from the role of judge. I am their mother, here for support and advice, but only when asked.
When H bomb-dropped the path that had always been in front of me was demolished and I was scared to death. That fear is gone (for the most part) and I now know that I can choose each step on my new path.
Sometimes I'll misstep but it won't be the end of the world. In my IC appt yesterday we talked about being a toddler-I'm like a toddler just learning to walk on wobbly legs but with each step I get stronger and more balanced. I get cheers for the steps I take and encouragement to get up, dust myself off and try again when I fall.
And as far as the M is concerned, I'm OK, either way. Really. Because of that, I've been thinking of changing things up a bit but I'm not sure how.
Suggestions?
I made a career decision that was scary and freeing at the same time. I quit a job (I had 2 jobs). Taking it was based on money, acceptable and seen as a smart move by the outside world but not a good fit for me. This has been a pattern with me forever; I somehow felt that if I wasn't miserable in some way, I wasn't working hard enough.
The job I kept fulfills me in so many ways and gives me time to pursue other things, GAL things. The pay is not as good but it gives me so much more and I work with a wonderful group of women who have been incredibly supportive of me throughout this journey.
I was also concerned about how people would see me as I changed direction. Yes, I've always had the need to be the smartest, fastest, jumping highest kid. It's time to let that go.
Passed time, really.
And now that I've cleared out some of that junk, who knows what new things await me. I was keeping myself burdened by that baggage filled with judgement.
Awesome Bug!! I can imagine quitting the job being scary yet it seems like a great decision for you. I look forward to hearing about what you are doing w/ all that extra time for yourself.
Wow, all the way back on page 5...
Sometimes I'll misstep but it won't be the end of the world. In my IC appt yesterday we talked about being a toddler-I'm like a toddler just learning to walk on wobbly legs but with each step I get stronger and more balanced. I get cheers for the steps I take and encouragement to get up, dust myself off and try again when I fall.
Hip! Hip! Horray!
And as far as the M is concerned, I'm OK, either way. Really. Because of that, I've been thinking of changing things up a bit but I'm not sure how.
What ideas have you been considering?
Wow, all the way back on page 5...
Was that for me?
Showing up on his doorstep in a fur coat---and nothing else
And in AZ in summer that would be a novelty.
-------------------
Being friendlier but not overly pursuing. We had minimal email contact for the first 9 month of this. I think at one point we went 5 months without setting eyes on each another and we live 10 miles from each other. Now since March I've seen him several times-no R talk just friendly banter.
I don't really know, probably a good one for the 48 hour rule. But all ideas and thoughts are welcome.
Well, they may not be welcome but will be tolerated.
Showing up on his doorstep in a fur coat---and nothing else
That may be a tad extreme but honestly Bug what have you got to lose? What have you to fear? What is your goal? You are ok either way so IMO I would reccomend you just being you.
Whatever your comfortable with and makes you feel good. Being friendlier, flirtatious, whatever. If you are just being you and acting authentically then I don't buy into the pursuing as much because I believe that you are detached enough and at a point where as a friend of ours has said many times you are doing something , not to induce a reaction, but regardless of the reaction.
You are a great, inspiring, (add countless other positive adjectives here)woman and it is unfortunate for your h to not be able to see that......YET
Sounds like you've got a few good ideas already in the hopper. I particularly like the fur coat idea. The only thing missing is a bottle of champagne and 2 glasses to toast the event!
You go girl!
2Pac- I think you should don the fur coat and show up on w's doorstep??
Damn! Now why didn't I think of that?
You know I'm all about a dramatic entrance....but what about something small inviting him over for a family dinner?
Oh and if he were always the one to BBQ or something like that you could frame it that way my H loves to feel needed and like there's something he can do that I can't (probably because I was such a controller and always told him the things I did better.)
You are a great, inspiring, (add countless other positive adjectives here)woman and it is unfortunate for your h to not be able to see that......YET
hear hear!!
Showing up on his doorstep in a fur coat---and nothing else
That may be a tad extreme but honestly Bug what have you got to lose? What have you to fear? What is your goal? You are ok either way so IMO I would reccomend you just being you.
Whatever your comfortable with and makes you feel good. Being friendlier, flirtatious, whatever. If you are just being you and acting authentically then I don't buy into the pursuing as much because I believe that you are detached enough and at a point where as a friend of ours has said many times you are doing something , not to induce a reaction, but regardless of the reaction.
You are a great, inspiring, (add countless other positive adjectives here)woman and it is unfortunate for your h to not be able to see that......YET
Thanks, sias, I think I'll frame this for the bad days. Love ya, ya [censored][censored][censored][censored]nut job!
I agree that at this point I have nothing to lose really. I'm good, as bf says, I'm better than good with my life right now. He's not necessary for my happiness but might be a nice addition. My potatoes on the side!
he's been out of town this week and will probably get in late on Thurs, tired with little to eat at his place. I'm making bbque and coleslaw so I might make him a plate and leave it in a cooler on his doorstep.
A nice gesture I would do for a friend.
You find the greatest things when you fear these threads.
Found this at gunny's place:
Lol. I really don't understand why guys worry about the "friendship trap." I've never dated anyone I wasn't friends with first. And even if you start dating and then develop a friendship as you date, you still have to develop a friendship. If you aren't friends, you certainly can't be more than that.
And the four phases I was taught as a newcomer here were reducing negative emotions, friendship, romance, and recommitment.
Build the friendship. Be the loyal, supportive, loving friend she needs and the rest can follow.
In all your communication I would refrain from telling her how you improved.
I think a lot of the negative emotions have been weeded out and a bit of friendship is germinating.
Brit, so you think my first idea was a little too dramatic?
Perhaps there will come a time...
Thanks, Verab!
so since this "friendship" theme is coming up - how does one respond to what my h just said to me a few days ago when i told him that it would be great to be friends:
well it won't be a real friendship because i won't be able to talk to you about things going on in my life. that's what friends do
i replied oh i meant that we could just hang out and be relaxed together and one in a while do something fun or frivolous
him: no that's not friendship
Hee hee!!
"labug and the fur coat"
now that sounds like a story book title - adventure story...
i'm starting to see now, that when one is detached enough - one can easily initiate contact with the spouse, because we don't "fear the consequences" any longer.
funny how until the detachment comes, we can't even see that that is a state we may reach.
good times labug, good times
zig
Thanks, sias, I think I'll frame this for the bad days. Love ya, ya [censored][censored][censored][censored]nut job!
LOL, right back at u ya [censored][censored][censored][censored]- THUNDER!!
Went out for coffee with S22 tonight. We had a great time and a wonderful conversation. It's so interesting to watch your kids become adults and find their way in the world.
I did have to stop myself from interjecting advice and remembered to listen and validate. Really listen.
This DB stuff really works!
I'm so proud to be his Mom.
Sounds like a fun evening, Bug! Glad you were able to listen and enjoy. And I would bet that a lot of the thing that make you proud of him are becuase he's always had a great mom to help guide his way. Even though we learn a lot about ourselves in these situations its good to know we have always had good qualities about us as well! Have a great weekend!
We talked a bit about what it was like for him when I was in the midst of my depression while taking care of my mother and after her death and then the separation. He's dealing with all that in a healthy way but he had some interesting insights.
Went out for coffee with S22 tonight. We had a great time and a wonderful conversation. It's so interesting to watch your kids become adults and find their way in the world.
I did have to stop myself from interjecting advice and remembered to listen and validate. Really listen.
This DB stuff really works!
I'm so proud to be his Mom.
AWESOME!!!
Wow, that's some heavy topics, Bug. And how awesome that you have a relationship with your S were you can have those conversations in a healthy way.
Labug, how rewarding that all your hard work of parenting has tangible results!
I would say you do a darn good job of parenting your own self too!
Labug,
I have been gone for a few months and I am now back and trying to getting caught up with people's threads.
You have always been a source of inspiration to me (and to many others here, I can see). You are so wise and positive and I learn something from your posts every time.
You also have a way of being kind and compassionate yet truthful and firm when needed and you make me think and re-think my positions and challenge my thinking.
So I just wanted to say that I am glad to be back and reading about your amazing journey and the great life you have created for yourself.
Thank you.
Went out for coffee with S22 tonight. We had a great time and a wonderful conversation. It's so interesting to watch your kids become adults and find their way in the world.
I did have to stop myself from interjecting advice and remembered to listen and validate. Really listen.
This DB stuff really works!
I'm so proud to be his Mom.
I could have written this myself and love it! I find myself really enjoying my boys on a different level now. D18 is about to start college and D15 will be D16 in a few weeks. They are not little boys anymore and they are handling the changes very well for the most part.
I really find myself enjoying their company both together and separately.
And when I go out to spend time with friends, they are so encouraging and genuinely happy for me.
I know that your boys feel the same, labug!!
Hey, it's been a while!
Just posted to ces about resentment and it made me think of ...me.
I'm wrapping up a week-long vacation in Chicago (love this city) with my 2 sons. We've had tons of fun, eaten great food and walked out legs off.
But I have also learned. I've always heard the we learn from our children, I've now realized that I have to be still enough to hear it.
And willing to look at the ugly parts of me that I like to hide.
Some resentments came up for me during this trip and I had the opportunity to work on that and learn and grow.
Other people really can't read our minds nor should they have to try.
I'm wrapping up a week-long vacation in Chicago (love this city) with my 2 sons.
I was wondering where those tall buidings were and you being afraid of heights!
But I have also learned. I've always heard the we learn from our children, I've now realized that I have to be still enough to hear it.
And willing to look at the ugly parts of me that I like to hide.
Some resentments came up for me during this trip and I had the opportunity to work on that and learn and grow.
Other people really can't read our minds nor should they have to try.
Good Job.
Finding all the hidden things is really hard work.
Crazy things like doing things they want to do but I don't and then being a bit angry about it.
Gotta nip that resentment thing in the bud!
I am really glad you had a nice vacation with your sons!
Thanks, Autumn! How are you? I'll check your thread for an update.
Oops I need to update
Going there now!!
Glad you had a good trip Bug.
Why I love these boards, I always get something that point so what I need to learn.
Are you saying that during the conversations with your W, you did not put any of your needs on the table?
I needed to hear(read) that.
Thanks, KD.
NP, bug.
I continue to work on that, myself.
A stable M is different than a WAS is different than MLC is different than A is different than piecing... etc... at least, as a sitch...
And yet, the work is the same, in most cases... for the LBS...
Except in piecing and a stable M... OUR needs as well as appropriate boundaries are OK and should be stated clearly.
Until we are in a stable M / R or in piecing... our needs have nothing to do with our spouse and are likely contrary to and/or conflictual with THEIR needs.
And for them, that's their new norm. It sux... but it is what it is...
Thanks, kd.
But I do have needs and they aren't being met and I don't know that I'm OK with that now.
I'm feeling lots of *disturbance in the force* and don't know how to deal with it. I thought I was past this.
This week since returning from our trip has been difficult.
Sadness and grief and feeling that I am about at the end of this road.
We say have no expectations, but I do. I try not to but they creep in. We say detach and I have, but not completely. Maybe I need the cutting of the legal ties that bind to really detach.
The fact that he said he was done and left but has not filed is just a continuation of our old R. Being the fixer it was easy for me to jump in and *fix things* that he didn't want to do. Now is it up to me to *fix* this for him? Or would it be fixing it for me?
I keep telling myself I feel this way today and tomorrow I will feel different, but I haven't. I've been sad, and weepy at times and also notice my black dog (depression) nipping at my heels a bit. It's interesting how I can tell the difference in my feelings of sadness and those of depression. That's something positive, I guess. I can see the the dog approaching and take steps to protect myself.
I know I've again let go of the discipline I've tried to maintain with yoga, meditation, exercise. I'm working to recover that and hoping it will be helpful as it has been in the past. I'm also increasing my GAL activities and have been quite busy but those sad feelings are still there waiting for me in the quiet moments.
I know Adinva has mentioned that she can't believe this is happening in her sitch and I feel that, too. How could it be so bad that you cut someone you loved for so long out of your life? That doesn't mean that I don't realize that things were bad; I did a lot of damage to the R but to not try seems so crazy.
But, I'm a fixer. He never had to fix anything because I was there, fixing. Fixing is not all bad, sometimes I think it would be nice to have someone to fix things (and not just the broken dishwasher that I'm currently dealing with).
Maybe my interference kept him from gaining that skill.
As I think through this, I realize that it's my expectations that have most likely brought me to this point. Before the vacation we were having pleasant email exchanges and a few texts, flirty, friendly, fun stuff. I had even fixed some food for him that I left at his place when I knew he was returning from a week out of town. He thanked me for it a couple of times and told me how good it was. Later, he sent me an email wishing me a good trip. I didn't contact at all during the trip but sent an text from the airport about a funny thing that happened with S(19) which he responded to.
When we got home, I emailed some photos and a short recap of the trip and the conference we attended.
Dead silence from his end.
So maybe I should back off.
But I'm really tired of this.
Advice?
hi labug,
i think i relate to what you are saying...am very busy, GAL etc, but really feel quite lonely...
Wow LA I feel almost exactly the same way as what you expressed in your post. I actually posted my whining this morning early and it was so similar to yours that its uncanny. I can't for the life of me see how she can just act as though we haven't had 15 years together and be so....I dont know if casual is the word but its what comes to mind....as though I dont mean anymore to her than the guy making her coffee at starbucks...and possibly less b/c im betting she's friendlier to him than to me right now.
Funny thing is, all of these feelings have been welling up inside of me in the last week....and its been a good week. It really has been a good week, not only for me, but for "us" if there is an us...at the very least our interactions have been really good this week and I can see her slowly coming out of the shell that she put around herself....its very slowly, but it does look like she's peaked out a few times recently and based on the fact that she didnt immediately jump back in she must have at least been a little more curious about what she's seeing, or maybe she even liked what she saw.
Point is even with good vibrations going this week, I to can see the black dog creeping up on me. I never really thought about the difference in sadness and depression, but its obvious that this isnt normal sadness b/c with the week i've had I have no reason to be sad right now.
I dont know that I have any advice for you because when i start to feel sorry for myself when i've been seperated for 9 weeks and see someone who's been seperated so much longer its amazing the resolve it must take to stand for your marriage that long. I hope that im able to do that, im simply deciding each morning that i'll stand for my marriage another day and thats the only day I really worry about.
Again I don't have advice, but I do have encouragement.....im sure you've heard plenty of this, but we all love compliments....I know nothing about you except that your amazingly strong....you have stood for your marriage and have worked/are working to improve yourself and in this world today that is rare. Very few people are willing to fight at all for their marriage, much less to recognize and admit their own role in the failure of it.
I'll finish with this.....i've always said that because I believe in marriage, and also because im completely convinced the kids never truly recover from it and it causes them problems their entire lives that I would do everything in my power to stay married. I had a man tell me a few years back that when my S11 is a grown man and comes to me and asks why I didnt try harder to keep our family together that I better be able to look at him face to face and tell him that I did everything in my power to make our marriage work and it simply didnt work out. Throughout this entire process that has been on my mind whenver I want to throw my hands up b/c she's so cold to me. But when I see people like you and others who have stood so much longer and more strongly than me I know that if I were to give up now I couldnt look him in the eye and say those words so I put my head down and get back to work. So just know that your not only an inspiration to others, but your an incredibly strong woman who is to be admired.
Smile its Saturday.
Thanks, Carnac. I'll read your post.
I've stood this long because I have thought up till now that the piece of paper saying we're divorced wouldn't make much difference in how I am. I needed to move through this process at my pace and have done that and become a much different person. A person my h doesn't really know at this point. That's the sad part.
Also I do have the expectation (yes, it is an expectation) that his not filing means that there is hope. I'm now close to asking for clarification on that.
The dreaded RELATIONSHIP talk.
((((((((((((labug))))))))))))
Also I do have the expectation (yes, it is an expectation) that his not filing means that there is hope. I'm now close to asking for clarification on that.
before doing so, could you spend a few days - just sitting with that, and breathing into it, until there is a space around it and find out what's in that space?
you have to find that out, before you can have the R talk, don't u think?
labug - i hear a tiny bit of self-denigration toward yourself. and more than the expectation issue, i think there is the time factor issue that is at play here.
if you remove the time factor - how long it's been, how long will it be... what does that leave you with?
it's like KD keeps pointing out to me - I'm where I am until I'm not there any more and then I'll know it.
I'm trying to lean into that and leave all the other things out. It's possible that you only have to have that talk when you know where you are.
could everything else just be hoping that a nudge will influence an outcome?
I don't know...
what i am starting to see more and more clearly is how circular this all is - we come full circle on one thing and think the circle is complete and then the next and the next circle, and then suddenly we're back at a circle which we thought we'd left behind and have to go through the process all over again.
might this be one of those circles that need to be repeated, where you find something new for yourself?
i think many of us think of you when we are floundering - your strength in standing this long has been an inspiration to us, especially in the face of your growth and self-awareness - you've been a quiet beacon here on the board - aspire to where bug is. but i also think that the most beautiful thing about where you are in your strength is also your acknowledgement of how this comes up again periodically and how you deal and go through it in this quiet balanced way. your honesty is really touching to me - you teach us how to do it right
so labug - maybe to just be where you are - it's the best place, and then you'll move into another circle when this one has taught you what you need to know
i hope you have peace today
zig
Thanks, zig, I need to reread this a few times but a lot of what you say is ringing true.
Thanks for your words of support.
More later but I know I will sit with this for awhile.
Hi Bug, I'm a fixer too and my H loved to be rescued. From his mum to his ex to me to his now current GF.
Maybe my interference kept him from gaining that skill.
don't take on his short comings. How many skills have we had to learn since separation? How many skills have we chosen to learn since then to become a fuller, happier, more balanced person? LOADS. everyday we come here and talk about our growth. You more than anyone on this board I think does such a great job of reflecting in how far you've come and your desire to go further and learn more. I had to accept that some people don't want to change. I don't think my H enjoys having people fix his life he feels inadequate and yet he keeps doing it but that's his choice.
but to not try seems so crazy.
I wrestled quite a bit with whether my desire to piece was down wanting to try to make it work out of obligation and loyalty to the marriage or because I'm in love with him. It does seem crazy not try...especially because we're fixers. In my mind anything can be fixed. People who say that something's impossible are quitters. i love a challenge. I love defying stereotypes and statistics. I'm in the "how can we" group whereas H was always in the "that's never going to work so why try"
Focus on you and work on not giving that black dog a visit at your house! LOL Big hugs I know you'll come out okay. I really do have faith in you!
Also I do have the expectation (yes, it is an expectation) that his not filing means that there is hope. I'm now close to asking for clarification on that.
The dreaded RELATIONSHIP talk.
So let me get this straight.
He is depressed and you are giving him SPACE and so he is not moving along with the divorce.
My mind reading would be that he is too depressed to do that.
It is too much work and why bother.
So anyways you want to POKE him with a relationship talk to see how he reacts?
My thoughts are that maybe that is not a great idea.
What's coming up for me is that I've felt that *standing* has been beneficial to me but now I'm not so sure that continuing is.
I'm feeling spent.
and I feel just this way:
- wow, i am still so afraid of showing my true vulnerability and weaknesses, that even on line, where there is a semblance of anonymity, i still manage to give this impression of being really strong and capable - and possibly create a situation where i don't get the help i truly need because i hide behind this facade ( and all of a sudden, i see how i did that since i was a very young child - staying bold and defiant no matter how much i was hurting inside - groan groan - it's still like that, after all this work? wtf? when does this effing end?)
You need to refocus. Write a new list of positives. Do not engage in a R talk. Your H is unable to have that conversation.
I see so many positives happening and a new relationship slowly starting to grow. Yes he backed away from one exchange but just let that be okay.
Unfortunately you have to be the incrediably strong one right now, but I know you can do it.
Get back to your fun stuff. Focus on you and dont poke the bear:)
Thanks, BK. Sometimes we need to step away from our sitch and have others look at it, I guess.
Don't poke the bear...OK.
Gotcha.
labug,I hear you on just being tired. However, after looking over the last few posts, it looks like you have two viable choices: either move the D forward or continue standing. I would agree with BK, your H is not capable of having a productive R conversation right now.
Focus on the part of your life that's great, put the crappy part in the corner for now.
Yes, jb, I do have 2 choices and I've always heard and probably even said, a decision based on emotion is probably not the best choice.
Thanks for stopping by.
Hi labug,
I feel I know just what you're going through at the moment.
I too was here:
"I do have the expectation (yes, it is an expectation) that his not filing means that there is hope. I'm now close to asking for clarification on that."
And my H, like yours, has been making so many steps towards being around us more in a normal way lately.
But then he announced he was going on a trip OS and sure enough next day he told me I'd be served with D papers while he was away.
So like (the new) him to do it this way.
Where we live, all that's required is an application for D and then one month later, it is granted. So by the time he returns from his holiday with OW (to a number of destinations in the world that have significance to our family) it will all be done.
I had the R talk - acted on my emotions - just wanted to know before he left why he had to D me so fast. It was exactly one year to the day that he separated from me that he applied. The first available opportunity.
He just said it was because I'd said to him once during separation that 'You are still my H and I am still your W" and he didn't want to hear that any more. He said he'd made his decision (to D me) and he needed to move on. He didn't want to talk any more. (I didn't point out that he still seemed to want to see me every day and talk on the phone..)
All the standard script. No news there.
So I'd advise not trying to discuss it with him. There is no point. It just serves to reinforce his belief that he's doing the right thing.
As you know, you need to be prepared for a bumpy ride. I am astounded by how much his action (of applying for D) has thrown me back into a state of utter despair. I am depressed, crying, and so sad.
And I knew this was coming. I've been living as if divorced for a year; and yet I still didn't believe it.
And like you, I still can't believe that this is happening.
I guess it just takes a bit longer to sink in.
At the moment I'm finding some relief in thinking that H is dead. Is that terrible/stupid?
Trying to thought-stop, in a way, by tricking myself into believing that he has died and that's why he's no longer around.
I can do this OK at the moment because he is physically not here for 3 weeks or so. Hoping by the time he returns I'll be strong enough to not want to have anything to do with him; that he really will be 'dead' to me.
OTOH, maybe it's the first sign that I'm just going mad.
But anyway, I'm with you in this, believe me. I have my arm around your shoulder and we're holding each other up.
Hi LaBug - sorry that you're feeling tired and down. I've notice my feelings cycle around, sometimes really angry, sometimes this faithful love, sometimes apathy, and sometimes why don't we just get this over with.
I don't know how long standing without progress makes sense, but it's a very personal decision and different for each of us. I don't know how long it's fair to yourself to sustain yourself with tiny crumbs of affection or even civility. I don't know enough about depression to know if your H is going to wake up without some impetus.
You've put all this time to great use, and knowing you if you put more time into it you'll reach ever higher levels of awareness and understanding. You don't have to decide anything right this minute.
Maybe the stress of traveling has you a bit down? Do something special to take care of yourself, and hang in there, and keep journaling. We'll be here for you no matter what!
Bug I think everyone here goes through this cycle. You are not alone. I think BkMom's idea of thinking about your positives could be comforting to you now and help you bring your focus back on the light you have shining on you.
(( ))
Wish I could get you out on a bike ride Bug, think it would be good for both of us. Hang in there, we are all behind you.
Accuray
and I feel just this way:
- wow, i am still so afraid of showing my true vulnerability and weaknesses, that even on line, where there is a semblance of anonymity, i still manage to give this impression of being really strong and capable - and possibly create a situation where i don't get the help i truly need because i hide behind this facade ( and all of a sudden, i see how i did that since i was a very young child - staying bold and defiant no matter how much i was hurting inside - groan groan - it's still like that, after all this work? wtf? when does this effing end?)
dear bug, that quote is such an amazing piece of self awareness - that you defend yourself by being the bold and defiant one.. and yet here you are admitting that to us openly and expressing your sadness.. instead of covering it up with strength..
i am so sorry that you are hurting but i wonder if by feeling your sadness you keep the black dog away.. i heard a C say once that depression is turning off your feelings,it is like a single water spigot, we think we can turn off the negative feelings, but don't realize that we have turned off the positive feelings as well.
we are all a work in progress and always will be, i think..and wouldn't it be boring not to be?...
i think zig is right on...
this is just another layer to your growth and healing... i don't know how many times on this journey so far that i have felt like i was drowning right before i took another big step..
growing pains..
(((((( )))))))
Thank you all, it really does help to come here and vent and get things off my chest. I feel better today and am thankful for the support system I have.
I had lunch with a friend yesterday, dinner with other friends and all of you to chat with during the day. How great is that?
About the vulnerability quote from zig, I'm going to share this because it shows the lengths we(I) go to in order to hide that soft spot. I woke up this morning feeling embarrassed and needy that I had shared that. I felt I should be stronger, that I should be able to get through this on my own.
But I quieted that voice because sometimes I do need help and that's OK. One of the reasons my marriage fell apart is that I couldn't say "I'm drowning here, I need help." I didn't seek help for my depression because I thought I could fix it on my own.
Sometimes trying to be strong can be detrimental.
I'm feeling much better today but I know I have to work to keep this so back to my GALs. I need some discipline which has never been my strong suit. I'm great in a pinch or in that push to the finish but doing routine things daily, not so much. Something for me to improve.
Another piece of this I didn't add yesterday, part of our trip to Chicago was to attend a conference about S(19)'s health issue. It was 2.5 days of constant information and I came away overwhelmed and overstimulated. Those days also had a lot of emotion, listening to the keynote speaker I almost had to step out as some of her life mirrored what we have struggled with with S(19). But hers was a message of hope and that was good.
I had lots of stuff to work through from that.
I also completed the major milestone in a project at work this week. All that's left is an assessment and my workplace will gain a national designation.
So it's a lot and my T often has to remind me of these things that I tend to ignore that add to the stress of life. Not to recognize them in a prideful way but to note them and give them their due.
So I'm getting up from where I stumbled, brushing myself off and forging forward on this crazy path.
One last thought, I'm coming to the realization that I'm not OK with having a husband in name only. It's been almost 18 months and while I don't think I've wasted that time or that I would be any further in recovery had we D earlier, I'm not quite sure what is to be gained by standing.
I have a good life.
I have 2 great sons.
I have loving friends.
I have a great house easily affordable on my income.
I live in a lovely community that I enjoy.
I have a job I enjoy going to where I work with fun, knowledgeable, supportive people.
I am healthy.
I have many interests.
I'm not getting younger. It's a fact.
I want someone to enjoy all of the above with me. If my H is not stepping up to that then I have a decision to make.
When I felt the heartache again this week, I thought "I'm tired of this."
And today it's not as scary as it was yesterday.
I'm not going to run out today or next week and change anything but the wind is shifting.
Hi labug, I am happy to read you are sounding more positive..and gnat you have kept the black dog at bay.
Maybe this is the start of bring DONE and dropping the rope as the vets speak about.
Just let it come to you.
You have been a source of strength to me since I joined.
((( )))
Thanks busting, I think sometimes dropping the rope is done strand by strand.
I will let it come to me.
but to not try seems so crazy.
I wrestled quite a bit with whether my desire to piece was down wanting to try to make it work out of obligation and loyalty to the marriage or because I'm in love with him. It does seem crazy not try...especially because we're fixers. In my mind anything can be fixed. People who say that something's impossible are quitters. i love a challenge. I love defying stereotypes and statistics. I'm in the "how can we" group whereas H was always in the "that's never going to work so why try"
I missed this post yesterday. Thanks, Brit.
Getting him to try is attempting to change/control him and that's not going to work, so I have to (again) accept that and figure out what is best for me.
Another step in letting go.
This is NOT a linear process. Newbies, take note!
Also I do have the expectation (yes, it is an expectation) that his not filing means that there is hope. I'm now close to asking for clarification on that.
The dreaded RELATIONSHIP talk.
So let me get this straight.
He is depressed and you are giving him SPACE and so he is not moving along with the divorce.
My mind reading would be that he is too depressed to do that.
It is too much work and why bother.
So anyways you want to POKE him with a relationship talk to see how he reacts?
My thoughts are that maybe that is not a great idea.
Something like that.
It is too much work and why bother.Yes, this is historically his MO in relationship matters.
I need to focus on me and what is best for me right now. (see a previous post of mine^)
I need to expand on that a bit. The *why bother* part is probably not exactly correct.
It's more that he doesn't know how to do it and it's scary for him. This is not an excuse as he could learn to do it if he wanted. Just like I have learned new skills.
In his world, it's seemingly easier not to.
I understand that 100% my H is the same way. I don't think he's happy but he'd rather be less happy than put in the work.
LaBug, Just reading through your thread. Thanks for letting me learn from you. I especially needed to hear "This is NOT a linear process. Newbies, take note!" I want to keep thinking that progress (what I think is progress) is some place to move forward from, not sideways or backwards. It's a splash of cold water when forward (closer to reconciliation) isn't the direction we move. I also like the depression analogy, you can't just turn off the bad feelings at the tap, you turn off all feelings. Also, Don't Poke the Bear. Lot's of good stuff.
LA, I'm glad to hear you are feeling. I hope the trend continues.
Yes, Lilly, sometimes we even go back a few steps but the key is not stopping but doing the next right thing.
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