Mostly, right now, I feel overwhelmingly guilty. I do feel as if my husband has put in a lot of effort the last year or maybe more of our relationship, and I do feel like I took him for granted a lot of the time. On the one hand, I wish I had taken him more seriously when he discussed things with me, but on the other hand, I wish he had really been more forthcoming and had expressed how he was feeling leading up to this so it wouldn't have been such a surprise for me. We both made mistakes, I'm sure, but overall, he was always able to see the big picture and realize that things weren't as serious as I took them to be. He said sorry even when he didn't need to say sorry just to preserve my feelings. Meanwhile, I instead wanted to make him feel badly for making mistakes and withheld affection and saying that I loved him, even when he said it. I tested him and played games with him. And it didn't make either of us feel particularly good. Looking back, I think this is stuff my parents used to do to me, and I don't know why I didn't consider how it used to make me feel. Even though it made me feel horrible, I still did it to the one person who I loved (and still love) more than anything. How could I not be mature enough to realize this until now? I think the damage is already done and I think any changes at this point forward are simply too little, too late. He loved me unconditionally, and I didn't express this sentiment back.
I have ruined this, and I don't believe there is any way to go back to how it was beforehand. I ruined Richard and I ruined our chance at ever being happy together. I pushed away the person who cared so much for me and made him unsure of what he even wants or values in life. How can I live with this forever?
Sophiedaphne...
it's not over till it's over... focus on you... you've had a breakthrough.. embrace it... love him NOW unconditionally and he will see it... my W was the same with me... I did all she asked, and made changes in myself and she hoped that her feelings for me would change, all the time acting/saying that she loved me and that nothing was wrong... until the bomb... I'm hoping that with time and space, she will have the same breakthrough you did and realize that we should work on our M together... Keep the faith, be good and stay safe... God has a plan, and it's awesome... it will be revealed in time... everything happens for a reason... stay strong...
Thanks, Fightfire. He won't let me love him now. He can hardly stand to be in the same room as me. I'm trying to give him everything he needs right now, and he is doing what he can for me, but I broke him, it seems.
I hope the counselor tomorrow can help him realize that it's not too late. I really hope so. This hurts my heart so deeply.
stay strong... he is hurting because he felt rejected, but given time, it will go away and he will see.. just keep loving him, work on you... make yourself into someone he would be a FOOL to walk away from... it takes time... I'm having a hard time realizing that myself... but all will be revealed in time... Counseling is good and will give you perspective... Have Faith, be good and stay safe...
I'm sorry you're going through this too. It is so hard. I haven't yet figured out out to make myself better. I'm finding it impossible to get that motivation I really need. I don't know how to get him to see that I'm growing as a person. I don't think his hurt can ever go away.
Sophie,
It's wonderful and life-altering that you're recognizing the unhealthy patterns you used to fall into. Your challenge, over the next while, will be to learn to understand and forgive yourself, and create new & healthier ways of relating to others.
We are all brought up by imperfect parents, who wound us deeply, and yet we end up marrying someone who creates the same dynamic, because on an unconscious level it feels familiar and comfortable. Try not to beat yourself up too much about doing what we all do--the important thing is that once you can see the pattern, you needn't be trapped by it any more.
Also, you state that you "broke" your H; in fact, he too will have found himself replaying childhood dynamics in your treatment of him, and it's that double-whammy that has brought him to his knees. Don't worry about taking his hurt away, or showing him your changes right now--he is the only one who can do the work to understand where his wounds are, and how he can heal them.
Right now, just focus on becoming healthier, recognizing your strength, and give your H the space to grow and learn as you are doing.
Hi Cyrena,
Thanks for your reply. It means a lot and reading it brought tears to me eyes. I don't think I can forgive myself.
I don't feel strong. I feel guilty. My husband hurt me, sure, but he never did it with an intent to hurt me. He did his best. And I know that I did things with the intent to hurt him. Quite often.
I hope this becomes evidenced during counseling. I hope he feels it's a safe place to discuss this stuff. It doesn't feel enough for him to say that he doesn't feel "ill will" towards me. How could he ever trust me again? He can't and we both know that he can't.
Don't forget that you also did the best you could, given the inadequate tools you had at that point. We hurt people because we are hurting, because our needs aren't being met and we don't know how to get what we need in a healthy way.
To go back to your title, I think the best way to deal with the guilt is to become a person who knows better than to behave in ways for which you'll later feel guilty; once you feel sure of and proud about your changes, you'll have compassion for your earlier self.
But all this is a process--don't lose heart while you're still in the early stages, just know that your feelings will change over time and things will definitely get better. (((hugs)))
Hi Cyrena,
Your words really help me, so thank you for that.
But what if there's no way to repair things? I will have to realize, throughout my life, that it was my behaviors and feelings that ended this marriage. That maybe if I had noticed sooner, or really took things seriously, there would have been a way to save us? There could have been a way to get back to how we were when we were happy and in love. My husband's self esteem is as low as it could be right now, and I'm at least partially responsible. That's a lot to accept right now.
I know how painful that feels to you right now, and remember going through a similar remorse. I came to realize that although H & I had initially been very happy and in love, the skills we both brought to the M were insufficient--if we'd patched things together earlier, sure, we'd have limped along for a while, but we really needed to be forced to repair ourselves and our M properly, from the ground up, to create a satisfying M.
Hi Cyrena,
Thank you again. You are probably right that neither of us were prepared to deal with these issues. Well, you are definitely right. I take it, by what you're saying, that you were able to successfully repair your marriage? I hope things worked out for you.
I have finally made plans to do something tonight! I'm going home (because I left Chuck's number there, oops.) And then to the library, then I'll have my call with Chuck, and then I'm meeting a friend and her boyfriend at their house, so I don't plan on being around for too long tonight. I'll be as pleasant and upbeat as I can. I'm so nervous for marriage counseling tomorrow, though.
A friend invited me out on his boat tomorrow after counseling. I'm not sure what to say, because I don't know what the outcome of counseling will be. Will I want to stay with my husband, or will I want to be as far away from him as possible? I just don't know.
We were lucky enough to be able to revive our marriage, though of course it was a long and painful process--and, more importantly, we have come to terms with our childhood issues and are at peace with ourselves.
Good for you to go out tonight--try not to think about your situation much while you're with your friends, and give yourself a break.
That's great to hear, Cyrena. I'm really happy for you.
I got home and husband made some small talk. He said he was making some tea and asked if I wanted to have some, so I said ok. He said he went food shopping for us, so I thanked him for that.
He said that he was going out with a friend from work and would be installing something for him. I tried to smile and just said ok. He wanted to know if I needed anything while he was out, and I said no thanks.
I got a snack from the fridge and just went into the bedroom (he is out in the living room, where he has been sleeping). He already has his clothes for tomorrow hung in the bathroom.
Is he offering to do so much because he is feeling guilty? He is being so cold and straightforward, which I think is a coping mechanism, but he just seems like the complete opposite person. It's almost scary. When he interacts with his friends, he is really happy and cheerful and joke-y.
Stop mindreading him. It's going to do you no good.
It is a marriage. It takes two to build it up and two to take it down. He has his faults too and contributed to the marriage failing as well. Shake off the guilt because it's chaining you down right now.
Hi MrBond. You are right. Mind-reading is not helping anyone.
Today is the first time I've felt even the tiniest bit of optimism and motivation since this has started.
The husband went out this evening to help a friend build a computer. I did not feel the need to pressure, talk about the relationship, or be the old sophiedaphne I used to be. I walked through the door with maybe only a half smile on my face, but that's better than normal.
When my husband went out, I opened up a recipe book and tried something new. I didn't quite get to finish it, but it felt nice figuring out what I wanted to make and getting it all together.
I had my conversation with Chuck this evening. I think he gave me really good suggestions. Naturally, I am a little bit skeptical, and it was a bit of an eye-opener for me, but I think I have a clear focus now. Maybe not clear, but an idea as to where to start. Thank you, Chuck! I am going to schedule my next conversation for two weeks from now, and I think I will probably end up paying for another three sessions. I'll see how I progress in the next few weeks.
After I finished with Chuck, I went over to a friend's house. This was really the first time meeting with this friend. We had arbitrarily met her in a CVS one day, because she was applying for a similar visa to the one that I was applying for. She has a fiance, (I think, maybe they are married?) and she had tried a few times to get us to go out with her, but we're both so introverted and shy that we put it off. This was the perfect opportunity to spend some time with them. I had such a wonderful time, just talking and socializing with someone DIFFERENT! They gave me such wonderful advice, which I may or may not take, but they opened up to me so much and opened up their home to me and gave me cake. I feel really fortunate to have met this couple during this time in my life. I was there for hours, just talking. They put a lot of things into perspective.
When I got home, husband was sleeping. I was as quiet as I could be. I picked up the recipe book and started looking through it again, getting excited for new things that I could make. I was genuinely happy when I walked through the door, and wish he could have seen that.
Then, to make things ever more lovely and happy, a friend from the past posted a random comment on facebook, so I commented on it with an inside joke from when we studied together in Italy. She instantly messaged me and said that she was going to Australia for a year in September, and wanted to know where to live. I told her about what was going on, and she said, "Why don't you come and live with us?" and I was like... Wow. I mean, if things don't work out, this is the perfect adventure for a year to do something different. She already forwarded me all of the information. Just thinking about the possibilities and planning it can make me feel exhilarated.
Tomorrow, I am calling the animal shelter and the hospital, which are close by, to see if they need volunteers. I certainly feel motivated right now. I can't believe how quickly things can turn around. I mean, none of this is set in stone, and ultimately I would still like for my marriage to work out.
I can't wait to finish my recipe tomorrow. I'm also really nervous for marriage counseling. But I am going to go into it with the advice that I've gotten (validate! listen!) and with the words that Chuck gave me to think about.
I think I will be ok after all.
I emailed him with the address for the marriage counselor. I even made a silly comment and added a "haha" about the counselor's last name as it related to an inside joke we once had, just to lighten the mood of something so serious.
I am going to validate, listen, and follow Chuck's advice. I'm so nervous, but I think it will be good.
And of course, when I woke up, it hit me hard again. I can just hope that today will be a little bit better.
You sound like you are doing GREAT! Keep up with the GAL and you will feel better and better. You can still be sad about what's going on in your sitch, but you will have a good life in many other ways and it will help moderate your emotions.
One foot in front of the other, one day at a time. You already sound much better describing your evening!
Expect mornings to be bad for awhile. Get a new morning routine, that doesn't include laying in bed ruminating.
I get right out of bed and do yoga.
Thanks, everyone.
When I went to go to work, I saw that my husband had moved my car from halfway across the parking lot to right in front of the apartment. I just sent him an email saying, "You moved my car! Thanks so much. There was a huge puddle, and it was nice to not have to wade through it, haha. I really appreciate it. -sophiedaphne" I hope that's ok. It was a really nice gesture, although he would have done it regardless of the situation.
He wrote me back to say "You're welcome. My feet were already soaked from walking to my car, so I figured I'd move yours while I was there."
I wrote back and apologized that his feet had gotten so wet, and that I hadn't realized that it was supposed to rain today (I'm probably talking to much here, I think, but I wanted to make it casual). I then sent him a second email because he had went to a friend's house two nights ago and had brought me back a piece of pie that he thought I would like, so I just wanted to let him know that I ate it for breakfast and that it was great, and that he should thank his friend for me.
I probably didn't need to write all of this stuff. But I know I haven't been appreciative in the past for the things he has gone out of his way to do, and I just feel the need to thank him and show him that I'm acknowledging this stuff, sincerely.
After reading through the archives, I am not questioning if going to marriage counseling is a good idea tonight. Help!!
I mean, "now" and not "not."
Just sit quietly and listen. Say as little as you can get away with because you are so fragile right now you go into self-destruct very easily.
When you want to say something or feel yourself getting emotional try to calm yourself with breathing. Google square breathing and practice it today.
Hi Labug, thanks so much.
Do you think I properly handled our email conversation earlier? Or did I maybe say too much?
Next time, just text "Thanks, I appreciate you moving the car" and leave it.
Ok. So chit chatting is kind of a no-no? I just wanted to come across as friendly and not pushy or anything like that. Just, like, a normal conversation. But I don't know what I'm doing, so maybe that's the wrong thing to do!
Chit chatting = no
It's pursuing, and I'm guilty of that too. It's going to be difficult sometimes, but labugs response is succinct!
If you think you say too much, then you did. We do that because we are looking for a sign, or something to grasp onto - a connection. With that comes expectations of their response, and then your feelings about that.
Ok. I got it. I will be as short and to the point as possible. Thank you guys!
Did you buy any duct tape yet?
Here is where I am confused though.
It has been suggested that I speak to him as I'd speak to a roommate/brother/friend. So when he asks, "how was your day?" Do I go into detail about my day, because that's how I'd answer a roommate, or do I just say, "It was fine. How was yours?" and then walk into another room?
And then it was suggested to be "unpredictable." So, one day, do I answer with a long-winded explanation of my day, and the next day go into the bedroom when he comes home so as not to talk to him at all? I feel like this is conflicting advice, and I don't know which one to do.
Should I go out of my way to do nice things for him? Like, I've been stacking and emptying the dishwasher, which is nice for both of us. But should I, like, fold his pants when he leaves them out on the couch? Should I initiate ANY conversations with him? I just don't know.
Here is where I am confused though.
It has been suggested that I speak to him as I'd speak to a roommate/brother/friend. So when he asks, "how was your day?" Do I go into detail about my day, because that's how I'd answer a roommate, No
or do I just say, "It was fine. How was yours?" Yes
and then walk into another room? Listen to what he said about his day, validate, and then don't linger. Don't ask him about his day and then immediately leave the room. Ask him, listen, and then go about your day.
And then it was suggested to be "unpredictable." So, one day, do I answer with a long-winded explanation of my day, and the next day go into the bedroom when he comes home so as not to talk to him at all? I feel like this is conflicting advice, and I don't know which one to do. No, it means vary your routine. Do you come home every day at the same time and cook dinner at the same time and watch TV at the same time and go to bed at the same time? Come home late some day, go get dinner out with friends, and don't tell him about it ahead of time. Do you never go out at night? Go out at night. Unpredictability is part of YOU focusing on YOURSELF getting a LIFE outside of your H.
Should I go out of my way to do nice things for him? No
Like, I've been stacking and emptying the dishwasher, which is nice for both of us. Do you normally do this? Does he ever do it? If it's usually you, why don't you not do it one day (unpredictable) because you're not home to do it (out GAL). Do it when it works for you to do it for YOURSELF. Your H wants to fire you as his W. Would you go out of your way to do nice things for your employer if they fired you from your job?
But should I, like, fold his pants when he leaves them out on the couch? No! Leave them there! That's his job. Why would you do this?
Should I initiate ANY conversations with him? Only necessary things, business-like things. Let him initiate. He is the one that wants to leave you. Let him understand what it's like to not have you constantly PURSUING him.
First of all, take a deep breath. You're confusing yourself. Clear your head.
In the beginning, did you write down the list of your 180s? What behaviors or actions did he not like about you? Do the opposite actions of those first.
Based on your current interactions, when you are nice to him and do him favors, what does he do? Does he reciprocate? If so, then continue doing them. However, if you are doing nice things for him and he rude and disrespectful to you, then stop them. Simple as that.
Each person's sitch is different and at different levels. You're going to have to gage when to do what. Whatever it is that you decide to do, do it without fear or fear of being judged or rejected. Do it because you want to do it.
Start from there. For the more heavier interactions or to journal, be sure you detail the interactions here.
Thank you so much for your replies.
I've been trying to vary my routine -- I went out yesterday and by the time I came back, he was already asleep. This is huge, and I never did that kind of thing before.
However, I know that one of his complaints was that I didn't do enough around the house. He always did the cooking/cleaning, and he claimed that he LIKED doing all of the cooking/cleaning. His sister told me that he complained to her about it, though, hence my attempt at trying to do the dishes, cook stuff for myself and leave some in the fridge for him, etc.
He hasn't had the opportunity to notice anything good that I've done. However, he keeps doing nice things for me.
I also know he doesn't like that I was so emotionally dependent on him. Therefore, I have been acting upbeat, happy, smiley.
So far, he has not changed at all. He did answer my email this morning when I thanked him for moving my car, which was unexpected. I thought he would just read it and cast it aside, so I don't know if that's a good or a bad thing or neither.
I also think that, in the past, I have not been a good listener. I haven't stopped what I've been doing to really talk to him. So I can make this a big change. But maybe I also haven't been communicative. But if being more communicative is pursuing, I think pursuing is worse. I am confused. I honestly am.
I need to ask him to bring the checkbook to counseling, since he has an hour and a half to go home and I need to go straight there from work. Do I text him and just ask politely for him to grab the checkbook?
He has been doing a 180 too. Like I said... exercising, reading, going out. Is that bad? I mean, is he really just enjoying his life without me? It seems like he is moving on so quickly already.
I made a list of his problems with me.
1. I am too emotionally dependent on him.
2. I didn't do enough around the house - cooking/cleaning, and I complained when he asked for him.
3. I always acted upset/depressed/angry and never smiled. When he tried to act funny/silly I got mad at him for not being serious.
4. I tested him and expected him to always know how I was feeling.
5. I ignored his feelings and never validated anything he felt.
6. I ignored his caring gestures.
"He has been doing a 180 too. Like I said... exercising, reading, going out. Is that bad? I mean, is he really just enjoying his life without me? It seems like he is moving on so quickly already."
Forget about his actions and concentrate on yours. Here's a suggestion. When he's gone, cook something new and exciting. Time it so that it's close to the time when he is coming home. When he sees you cooking tell him that you were trying out a new recipe you saw online and wanted his opinion since he's a great cook. Let him comment and finish the dish. Tell him that you made enough for two and serve it to him. If he declines, shrug it off as his loss.
Doing something like that does two things: 1) It shows that you are ready to take on some of the duties like cooking 2) It strokes his ego a bit when you ask his opinion since he's a "great cook"
Keep it casual and light. Since he does nice things for you, I would suggest trying to get some laughter in there. But be sure you are prepared for rejection. Take it as "his loss". That will show your strength and resolve.
I think it's important to learn to forgive...not just others, but yourself. I have come to terms with my own shortcomings thru a combination of logic (the comments Cyrena made on upbringing ring loud and clear in my mind!) and faith.
Sometimes my wife tells me "I wish I would have threatened to leave you 10 years ago so you would have learned all this then, and we could have enjoyed the last 10 years." And I respond, had you threatened to leave 10 years ago, I'd have probably said "see ya!" I wasn't ready to change then, I wasn't ready to open up and wasn't willing to see things different. Things happen when they do for a reason.
Thanks, MrBond.
I'd like to try the recipe idea. Although I think he'll just get annoyed that I'm making noise in the kitchen, because if he gets home late, he wants to go straight to sleep.
I texted him a simple message, "If you're stopping off at home first before we meet tonight can you please pick up the checkbook?" He said sure, so I just said thank you. That's simple enough, right?
When I greet him tonight, I am going to SMILE. Chuck said this was most important. Today, I wore my hair in a way I've never worn it (or haven't worn it this way in at least a year). I put on a new pair of earrings. I look weird (haha) but different. I think in a good way. I think it will surprise him GREATLY.
It is so difficult to figure out what will work, because he has been so stoic. No emotion, at all. Just monotonous and uninterested and flat. I can't break him yet.
Hi Breakdown,
Forgiving him has been easy. I forgive every mistake he has made in this relationship.
It is, indeed, forgiving myself that I am struggling with. It is getting a little bit better. I haven't broken down and started crying today (yet).
I am making small changes, I think. I feel, finally, like I have things to look forward to. I think my outlook is slowly changing for the better. I just want him to see that. I am concerned that counseling will cause a backslide, but I guess we haven't made enough progress for it to matter.
"he'll just get annoyed that I'm making noise in the kitchen, because if he gets home late, he wants to go straight to sleep."
Stop walking on eggshells around him. Do what YOU want to do. Besides I'm sure there's a time you can cook something during a period he's awake. Lunch, breakfast, whatever.
"I texted him a simple message, "If you're stopping off at home first before we meet tonight can you please pick up the checkbook?" He said sure, so I just said thank you. That's simple enough, right?"
That's the right way.
"It is so difficult to figure out what will work, because he has been so stoic. No emotion, at all. Just monotonous and uninterested and flat. I can't break him yet."
Again, don't overthink. Start off small. Think about this way. He's built up this huge wall and you're like a big wave outside trying to batter it down. Each time you hit the wall, he fortifies it. Become more like a small stream. Instead of hitting his wall head-on, you find cracks and crevices to get through. Eventually you start to wear those down and so does the wall. Small actions with big impact. That's what you go for.
MrBond, thanks so much. I guess it's a matter of figuring out what small things to work on.
Do you have any advice for marriage counseling tonight?
Let your H speak. Listen and hold your tongue even when there's something you disagree with. Validate his feelings. Then talk about how you feel and not how "he makes you feel". Remember that HE can't make you feel anything you don't want to. Only you can.
Also, don't say the word 'but'. Like when he says something and you say "I understand how you feel, BUT..." The word 'but' negates everything he says prior to it. It shows that you weren't listening. Let him get whatever he needs to off his chest and don't contradict it. He has a right to feel how he feels. Say things like "I can understand how you could feel that way." or if he says something that you know isn't true, say "I don't recall it being like that myself, and I can understand how you felt hurt when I did...."
Then start going into things that you admire about him. Not too over the top, but you need to show him some positives. Don't beg or plead and follow the basic DB principles.
Most importantly, be strong. It will be tough, but you can do it.
MrBond, thank you.
I feel so incredibly selfish for asking you all of these questions, but just know how much it means to me.
Just one more before I go.
What if he decides not to say anything? Or what if he decides that he won't go first and essentially makes me say everything? Do I list the things that I feel I have done wrong? Is that the approach that would work best? I am really concerned that he won't say anything while we're there, which I guess is a possibility. How should I approach that?
No problem.
Let the C guide the two of you. That's his job. Don't list the things that you believe you've done wrong. The whole point is to get HIM to open up. And besides you could be off about what you think is wrong (even if he told you the things that went wrong, it could have just been in response to something happening at the time).
Again, stop mindreading about what might or might not happen. If he chooses to talk, that's a plus. If he chooses not to talk, that's fine too. It's a plus just the fact that you're going.
And if I haven't mentioned it before - STOP WALKING ON EGGSHELLS. If he senses that you're nervous and apprehensive, he will be too. Be reassuring to him and warm. Remember, YOU CAN DO THIS!
Ok. MrBond, I can do this. Thank you so much for your help. I am nervous, but I am going to do this "square breathing" technique that I looked up earlier. I am going to validate his feelings and listen, and hope the counselor guides us in the right direction. It will be ok.
Thank you again.
I forgot to ask. Is your MC pro-marriage? Be aware that you can always change the MC if you're uncomfortable with the way they are. I would suggest that afterwards the two of you get some ice cream or something to lighten the mood. It will help to get things into a more pleasant feeling rather than being so dire.
Hi MrBond.
We had MC. I liked the counselor, and he was very pro-marriage. Now, of course, we've gotten home, and my husband won't even speak to me.
I didn't try to encourage him to talk about it, but I could tell that he didn't want to interact, so I just picked up my computer and came into my bedroom.
I validated everything he said and said I agreed with everything he said. I did cry a little bit. But basically my husband said he was not interested in fixing any of our problems.
Ok, backing up. Can you explain what was said?
Well, the counselor asked me what brought us here. I said that we had some issues, and I explained what it was I believed were the issues, because that's what the MC asked.
Husband said that, yes, these were issues, but ultimately, he was just tired of everything that led up to this point. He resents me and doesn't feel interested in working anything out.
There is built-up resentment against my parents, because they did a lot of things that he wasn't happy with, and I never stood up for him. They're the only family I have, so that put me in a difficult place to begin with.
The MC asked what made husband love me in the first place. He named some stuff, although he struggled. The MC asked the question, if you were to go to sleep and a miracle happened, what would have to happen to make this relationship good again? He couldn't answer the question.
We talked about what problems we each felt we had. Husband said stuff, I agreed with everything. About how frustrating I've been. I said yes, yes, I have been so frustrating. I don't disagree. You are right. I've been so hard to talk to. I've made it difficult to work things out. I've pushed you away. Yes, yes, yes.
MC said, this is what all couples go through. I'm sorry to say you're not unique! Blah blah blah. Sophiedaphne, how do you feel? Yes, everything he said was correct. He asked how I felt about husband's family and I said the truth -- they have been very good for me. I told MC how husband was so selfless for so long and how that drew me to him. How generous he was.
Husband was not wearing his wedding ring.
Afterwards, the MC said, would you like to come back? Husband said we needed to discuss it.
We got home and I could tell he wasn't about to interact, so I came into the bedroom and he started cooking something. He knocked on the door a few minutes ago and asked if I wanted some of the felafels he's making, so I said sure.
It hit REALLY hard that he has already stopped wearing the wedding ring.
I am giving up. Honestly. If he is going to give up this easily, so am I.
I could go on to tell you how every spouse says this. And to tell you the truth it's never "easy" for the WAS. He feels guilt and tried to get things to change with you before but you didn't listen. But you made your choice.
Good luck to you.
So there really isn't anything that I can do now, is there?
He won't even talk to me now. Not at all. We ate dinner together and watched a show. I tried to tell him how delicious it was! I thought that something was happening. I don't know.
Then the TV show ended and he just sat there. He said, really rudely, it is ok if I change the channel? I said, Sure!
He was clearly getting worked up, so I cleaned up the dishes and came back into the bedroom. Now I want to just cry. He went into the bathroom and washed up and turned off all of the lights.
I can't deal with this right now.
There's actually alot of things you can do. But they all involve patience, understanding and compassion.
When my W and I went to our first MC session, she started off by saying she wanted a D and that was that. We were in and out in 3 minutes.
But there's nothing that can be done as long as you keep saying...
"I am giving up."
Ok, ok. I'm not giving up. I had a moment. I don't want to give up.
Good girl. Right now you just got out of MC and like you said before he isn't the type to open up so it was probably really tough for him.
Did you acknowledge that when you left the MC?
No, I didn't. I guess I should have. My mind was just so full and I didn't know what to say. He wouldn't even walk alongside me when we walked to our separate cars. He asked if I would be ok getting home, and I said I would, and I asked him the same question. I asked if he was going straight home (which I guess was the wrong thing to do.) When should I tell him that I realize how hard it must have been for him to open up like that? Is it too late?
Is he there with you now? If he's still awake, tell him thank you, acknowledge that you understand how hard it was for him and give him a hug.
It's never too late.
MrBond,
I went out into the living room and I sat down, and I said, I just wanted to say thank you for going with me. I know how hard it was for you to open up.
He said you're welcome. And then he said thank you. And then he mumbled something and it almost sounded like he said "I love you" but it couldn't have been, unless it was a mis-step because he was so tired. I walked away, but I got hung up on it, and I asked if he was willing to go again (and I only asked because the counselor will not be around for two weeks and I need to tell him by Friday if we want to come in two weeks) and he said he wanted to keep thinking about it. I said no problem, and thanked him again and went off into my room.
For the next two nights, I won't be home, so it'll give him his time to think, I guess.
I knew he wouldn't have let me hug him, so I didn't even try.
I read in a post you were looking for D support groups. Divorce Care groups abound in my neck of the woods. Google their web page and see if it could be something you're interested in.
Peace
Thank you, JustStunned. I found a bunch. They're all in churches, and I am very much not at all associated with any religion, but I'd definitely give it a shot to find some kind of support. This is really helpful. Thanks so much.
Well, I'm set for the next few days and have places to stay if I need to get out! That's optimistic!
I'm going to a friends house after work today. I'm really trying to get a life. I'm still so discouraged. Not wearing his wedding ring? That just surprises me so much. I had really thought marriage counseling would have helped.
The counselor said that nothing what has happened is out of the ordinary!
its not out of the ordinary. pretty much the same for all of us. my W hasnt wore her ring since before she dropped the bomb. she would take it off when she left the house, put it on when she got back i guess. i know it hurts, there is nothing you can do to MAKE him put it back on. he will if he wants to.
i know how hard this is right now. i've been there and somedays still am. bond gives great advice. he has helped me alot. keep trying, dont give up. one way or another you will get through this.
Thank you, heartbrokeinsd
I'm sorry that you're going through this too.
I just don't get how our problems are "not that bad" and "not that out of the ordinary" yet my husband thinks that it is the end of everything. The marriage counselor said that things need to be this shaken up for change to occur. But if he doesn't want changes to occur, how can they? I guess I can make the changes within myself, but if he's not willing to see them, how will it make a difference?
your problems are bad. not unique. WAS need to think in absolute negatives in order to be okay with their decisions. it hurts, i know. your C is right, there has to be change for any change to occur.
change you. if he sees it great! if not, his loss. my W hasnt seemed to notice my changes either. i have though. i like where i am going. i really wish she was going there with me. i guess she has her ow path to walk right now and its not with me. it hurts less and less every day. if you are changing for him, nothing will change. i tried that. didnt go so well.
you can only be you. somewhere there is a great person. you are blind to her because of the pain. look beyond it. look to you. who you want to be. who you can be. it will make a difference. how, is up to god. keep your head up. never give up. you only fail when you qui trying.
Dakota
Thanks, Dakota, for your reply. You're right. I need to change for me.
I know how to change by doing other things, but I don't know how to change the inherent facets of my personality. Not to say that I want to change my personality, or that I CAN change my personality, but I just don't know what it is exactly that I can do differently in terms of the day-to-day. Like, I understand smiling and being happy and upbeat. But that seems so simple. I mean, what can I change about my outlook? Yesterday, we were watching TV, so I tried to laugh at some parts, (even though I didn't see them to be particularly funny) which was out of the ordinary for me, I think, I tend to not really express how I'm feeling around husband, but he didn't notice/care. Even when he has been rude/snide, I've been trying to let it just roll off my shoulders. I mean, I guess those are changes, right? He really is just thinking in complete negatives. Everything is horrible and bad.
It's not going to happen over night, so try to be patient. Don't let yourself get upset (or at least don't show it!). He's going to need some time to work thru what he wants, and he's going to have to believe your changes are real and not temporary.
I struggle with the patience myself, so I know how difficult it is. I've been working on myself for over a year now and my wife still hasn't committed to working on the marriage. She hasn't left, but is still confused. It takes time to trust again, to be willing to take the risk again. Don't give him any more reasons to distance himself from you.
Be good to yourself and hang in there.
I've been really trying hard with the "not getting upset" thing. It's really difficult.
The thing about this is that he is leaving to move back to Australia in December. So I will be in New York, and he will be as far away as possible. I feel like I don't have time to work things through. He isn't just confused, he has decided that he is leaving. For good and forever. I'm sorry that you are having such a difficult time, Breakdown. I hope that she sees the changes you're making soon and works with you. It's so frustrating that there is not more that we can do.
You are still focusing on YOU: your fears, your feelings, your desire for an immediate solution.
If you want to focus on yourself, focus on: what you can control, your areas of your personality that can be improved (impatience, self-centeredness, lack of empathy, depressive and obsessive thoughts), failure to listen.
We all have things to work on. Stop trying to work on him and start working only on you.
You've only been at this a VERY SHORT TIME. And half of that time you've wanted to give up. Go back and read all the advice that's been given to you. Then follow it.
You are right. I have to focus on changing the bad stuff about myself. There's clearly a lot of it, haha. I'm seeing an individual counselor next Tuesday evening. I'm looking forward to that. Then I'll probably schedule another session with Chuck for the following week.
Do you guys have any other suggestions for books to read? I'd like to get the co-dependent book, but I've passed by some other suggestions and failed to write them down.
Thanks again.
What do I do if he doesn't want to even talk to me or just leaves the room as soon as I come in? He appears to always be depressed and unhappy. Should I ask him if he is ok or if he wants to talk?
no, that would be pursuing. don't pursue. if he doesn't want to talk, then don't talk. smile, say hello, and get on with your life.
so he's depressed and unhappy? that would be normal in this situation. it doesn't mean you have to be. show him that you can be happy no matter what he's like. if you can't stand to be around his moods, then leave and go somewhere. take control of yourself.
stop analyzing everything about HIM and analyze YOU. you're watching him too closly and tying your feelings to his and his actions, moods, etc.
DETACH, DETACH, DETACH. i know it's hard. nothing worth having is easy. are you up to it?
good luck! i'm on your side. everyone here is.
Ok, here's another question. Last night after we ate, he was pissy, and I could tell. I got up and went into the bedroom without saying anything. Should I say, like, "I'm going to hang out in the bedroom and read!" or should I just get up and go, like I did?
no, that would be pursuing. don't pursue. if he doesn't want to talk, then don't talk. smile, say hello, and get on with your life.
so he's depressed and unhappy? that would be normal in this situation. it doesn't mean you have to be. show him that you can be happy no matter what he's like. if you can't stand to be around his moods, then leave and go somewhere. take control of yourself.
stop analyzing everything about HIM and analyze YOU. you're watching him too closly and tying your feelings to his and his actions, moods, etc.
DETACH, DETACH, DETACH. i know it's hard. nothing worth having is easy. are you up to it?
good luck! i'm on your side. everyone here is.
Yeah, it's true. When you microanalyze everything they do you will never be happy. You do tie your feelings to how your treated, detach is better for you and gives you a chance with them if you where to have one.
Ok, here's another question. Last night after we ate, he was pissy, and I could tell. I got up and went into the bedroom without saying anything. Should I say, like, "I'm going to hang out in the bedroom and read!" or should I just get up and go, like I did?
if you're NOT tying into his moods, you just go. if he were your child, you wouldn't cater to his bad behavior (yes, being pissy is bad behavior).
remember, YOU are happy.
If he asks me to eat dinner with him, should I accept?
Do you guys have any other suggestions for books to read? I'd like to get the co-dependent book, but I've passed by some other suggestions and failed to write them down.
Here's some of the books recommended in retrovaille:
Getting Back Together
Five Love Languages
DB
DR
Love Must be Tough
Take Back your Marriage
The Intentional Family
Building a Christian Marriage
Courage to Love When your Marriage Hurts
Marriage; A Spiritual Journey
The Truth about Love
Fighting for your Marriage
Marriage Savers
The Case Against Divorce
The Secret of Staying in love
Why am I afraid to Tell you who I am
Why am I afraid to love
Unconditional Love
Forgiveness
The Good Marriage
Sacred Dwelling
Making Love Last Forever
I haven't read all these, so I can't vouch for them.
A couple of others I read that helped me worth thru my own issues:
A Journey Called You
The Courage to Trust
I love you, but....I'm not In Love with You
What should I do if he asks if I want to eat the food he has cooked? Do I eat it? Do I sit with him?
I called a lawyer today, just to find out what my rights are, I guess. I know he was going to do the same because his mom mentioned it. I'm just waiting for them to call me back.
Yes, eat with him. It's an opportunity to have a good interaction. Just don't go overboard on being nice. Don't be fake. Be upbeat and pleasant.
Like, last night, I was talking about how delicious what he made was and how grateful I was. Afterwards, we watched a show. He didn't talk at all, I didn't pressure him. I tried to make it tension-free, and laughed at the show. He sat there, and I could feel the tension. Then he lay down and said "can I change the channel?" And I said "Sure!" and then he said nothing to me so I went into the room and he came in to get his clothing for the next morning and we said good night. It's just so frustrating. I didn't act upset or angry throughout all of it, which I normally would have, so maybe that's a step for me, and I definitely didn't let him see any emotion other than upbeat, but it's SO frustrating.
Yes, it is. This is one of the hardest things you will go through.
Rather than sitting with a silent H watching a movie and feeling uncomfortable, you would feel better leaving, even if it's to go to the grocery store, book store, or just a walk in a park.
He keeps saying that he doesn't "feel" the same way about me. He doesn't think he "feels" the way he needs to be feeling towards someone to who he is married. What does this mean?!
"What does this mean?!"
It means he doesn't know WTF he's doing. There's no rhyme or reason why they say that. I bet if you took a poll on here, close to 100% of us on here have heard the WAS say exactly the same way.
It's like this. He's dug himself into a deep hole and all he can see are the sides of the hole with no way out. But if he were to actually look up (get help, get educated about M like us) he'll be able to see that those feelings can and will come back. But unless he chooses to look up, he will always see no way out.
That's why second M don't usually last. Because they can change their partner, but if they themselves don't change, they're going to end up in the exact same spot.
And DBing will get him to (hopefully) look up?! Maybe?
Maybe. Look, I understand that you're looking for guarantees and absolutes. Problem is that there aren't any. You rely on faith and the strength within yourself.
Look up the Stockdale Paradox. It explains how you come up with a plan without a timeline and just let things go. I would suggest that you go dim so that the communication is not completely gone an do little actions that he used to enjoy. Keep things light and fun.
Both you and he need to get your mind off the R and remember that it comes down to the two of you enjoying each other. That's what makes a M last.
Right now you're choosing to climb into the hole with him and can't see a way out. You choose to climb out and let him stay in there himself. When he looks up, he'll see you there.
Thanks, MrBond. I'm sorry for being so demanding in my threads. I'm just so lost and confused, but so is everyone else right now. Thanks a lot for your responses.
Love your analogy MrBond!
SD, my H & I had our one and only MC session 3 days ago. He said he feels and acts in ways a married man shouldn't feel/act. So he doesn't want to feel like he's married!
I really appreciate your detail and honesty in your posts.
Hey ReachingHigher, it [censored], doesn't it? Do you feel like marriage counseling actually made things worse? That's kind of how I'm feeling.
I went and had a look at the Stockdale Paradox.
http://www.ndoherty.com/stockdale-paradox/It's interesting.
I'll look at Stockdale Paradox tonight after the boys go to bed.
For me, MC was good. Not that it resolved anything. It was just great to hear H talk for 45 minutes about me! Lol! And him too, of course!
I wrote down the things later that he listed as him being unhappy with our M. There we're seven main areas. I also listed the two things he really liked (I honestly think he wasn't trying to be mean, there are more than two things, but that isn't why we were there).
I really looked at those seven areas in light of the advice I've been reading on this forum.
So, in that respect, it really helped me a lot. I can see where I need to grow if I expect him to think life is better with me than by himself or with someone else.
I was disappointed, of course, that the three of us (H, C, and me) saw no point in H coming back until he is ready to work on the M. It's just the truth. But I'm going to continue now to see her as an IC because I need to work on me! And H encouraged that. He's been wanting me to do that for years!
So, it didn't resolve any marriage difficulties, but it helps me see the next steps I need to take. Does that make any sense? Or help you at all?
It makes sense. Maybe my MC wasn't particularly good, then. It sounds like you did get something from going. Maybe your husband will think about what was said and will have a change of heart?
Nothing really came out of it when we went, though. Other than the fact that my husband doesn't want to work on any issues with me. He said I was kind, intelligent, and a good person. He said I used to make him feel wonderful and special. He used to just look at me and feel better about himself. I don't know how I did that, and he couldn't verbalize it, either. I know what my problems were already, I guess.
My MC asked if we wanted to come back. My husband had already told me that he would be willing to try it for a month, but told me yesterday that he wanted to think about it before he made a commitment. So I said that was fine. I wasn't going to pressure him or make him feel bad for potentially changing his mind.
I'm really happy that you got something out of it. I don't know where to go from here, and I don't think the MC really gave either of us any direction.
I don't think one session is long enough for someone to give you direction when there are so many issues. IMO. They have to just first figure out what is going on.
I don't know how good our MC is. She seemed good at validating and asking questions. She asked what a typical day was like for each of us. H has moved out 2 1/2 months ago. She asked if life was what he imagined it to be. She asked if he missed his family. And she asked what his ideal life would look like.
She didn't give us any "homework" like I'd hoped she would. She also ended the session by saying we would resolve everything whether it be reconciliation or divorce! That put me to tears. She said it so matter-of-factly!
My H said twice in the past four months he would go with me but backed out each time. I was so glad he went with me once, I wanted to make the most of it.
I think you are right, don't pressure H to go again. Are you seeing an IC?
I think you and I have H's who appreciate who we are but have just lost the spark. You should read what MrBond wrote on my thread yesterday. I was feeling so discouraged.
I think my H sees me as either a mother to be respected or a daughter to be taken care of. He doesn't see me as a hot & sexy girlfriend.
I had lost some faith in DB techniques but think I was still pursuing H in a big way. I saw some baby steps last night when I applied DB properly.
Just hang in there, SD. Keep reading. Keep posting. Other people have great advice. I just have sympathy. And lots and lots of it!!!
Hey reachinghigher. I'm sorry that you're going through this as well.
I don't know how to proceed with the marriage counselor. He's on vacation anyways so I have two weeks to see how DB works and then I'll figure it out.
I actually went straight from work to a male friends house after work. I met two of his friends and it was a lovely evening. He lives ten minutes away from my work whereas I live 45 minutes away from my work, so I slept here (completely platonically).
My husband texted me last night to say that he was not going to be home because he sold the Wii to one of his friends (he's already getting rid of our stuff). I didn't answer him. I didn't feel the need.
This morning, he sent me a text asking that I please text him to let him know I'm ok. He had no idea where I'd be today and since he doesn't want to be my husband, I'm not obligated to tell him.
What should I reply, though? Just a simple "I'm ok?" Do I ask him if he is ok? Do I tell him that I stayed at a friend's place? I feel like he is going to be angry/resentful that I didn't tell him to begin with, but honestly, why would I? How should I proceed??!
"I'm fine, thanks."
His anger is his problem to deal with.
One other thing, your H can't really get rid of your stuff without your consent.
You should consult a L.
Omg, and now he's even calling me! I didn't answer the first time but I feel like I should at least let him know at some point that I'm safe? Someone who knows better than me... How do I handle this??
Let it go to VM and you can answer in a few minutes after you get control of yourself.
Oh labug I just saw your post. Thanks! I'll keep it simple. We had talked about selling the Wii for awhile actually so I'm not even that upset about it. Just shocked it's happening. I called a lawyer for a consultation through work yesterday and am waiting to hear back today.
I texted him, "hi I'm fine! Thanks" and he saw it and read it and didn't reply, which is fine. Why would he care where I am if he doesn't want me anymore?
Is it a bad idea for me to sleep elsewhere right now?
I texted him, "hi I'm fine! Thanks" and he saw it and read it and didn't reply, which is fine. Why would he care where I am if he doesn't want me anymore?
I think that's the perfect response. Not only did you tell him you're fine, the exclamation point makes it seem like you are doing great, which will probably make him wonder why....and as he gets interested, he may pursue some to try to figure it out. Just don't backslide when he does. Keep it up!
Thanks breakdown. Do you think sleeping outside of my apartment sends a bad message?
SD, you really need to stop living in his head. You won't be able to figure it out. You will go crazy.
Concentrate on you and what you're doing.
Did you get the book Codependent No More?
I second Codependent no more.
Why do you need to leave? I wouldn't. Just GAL!
I mean, like, is t wrong to stay at a friends overnight?
Thanks breakdown. Do you think sleeping outside of my apartment sends a bad message?
I'm not sure about that one....I wouldn't do it, but everyone's sitch is different. If my wife spent the night at her brother's, hey, no biggy....a friend from work who is of the opposite sex? Well, that rubs me the wrong way. My wife's confused, and I think she'd have a serious issue with it if I did it....even if it was someone she knew. She might not know what she wants, but she does know our relationship is damaged and we're both in a fragile state....not the best time to be hanging out with the opposite sex.
So even though I am getting a life, that's probably not the best way? I mean, it's so uncomfortable being in the apartment and he wants to be alone anyways, so I mean wouldn't he want me to not be there?
Sd: what are your hobbies? What do you like doing?
Focus on that. So if it takes you out of the apartment, great, if they are things you do inside, is there a group you can do it with?
My H was sending me "not wanting to be there at home with me" messages in January '12. I made a plan to get out of the house. I signed up with a gardening class from the county on one evening, fitness boot camp on two evenings and swimming at a local comm. college on a fourth evening.
It felt terrible like I was getting booted out of the house, but it gave us both some breathing room, got me some exercise, and I met some new people.
No one can tell you about where to spend your time or nights. But maybe just think about your goals and how you would best get there. (is this action bringing me closer to my goal or driving me farther away? Is there a better action I can take?)
Well, I am doing activities out ot the house. In going to a vegan meetup tomorrow and will be going out in a friends boat this weekend. I just wasnt sure how my husband would take it knowing I'm sleeping at a boys house.
Just do what you want to do. After all, he is.
He got home from work today, all pissy. Slamming doors and stamping his feet and acting as angry as possible. WTF?
I know it's because he's mad I didn't, like, tell him where I was, or something.
DBing isn't supposed to make them ANGRIER, is it?!?
SD - DB'ing is about helping YOU improve yourself. Your H is not mentally in a stable place right now, so mood swings are to be expected. If I were you, I would ignore his tantrum. Go about your day without mentioning it. It sounds like he COULD be trying to get your attention (you cannot know for sure) so do not take the bait. The only person's emotions you can control is YOU.
I know what you mean. I had plans tonight and they fell through and now I don't know what to do with myself!
"DBing isn't supposed to make them ANGRIER, is it?!?"
Let me put it to you this way. He's mad when you're there. He's mad when you're not. He's mad that you want to stay married. He's mad when you're around. But you THINK he's going to be mad when you're out.
He's going to be mad no matter what you do. But you know what? The anger is within himself. He's going to be mad but doesn't want to look inside. He thinks it's all coming from an external source and that source is you.
If he does get mad, you tell him straight up. "You say you don't want to be married. You say that you don't want me. So you have no right to be mad at me. You have alot of things to work out that are within yourself. I don't make you angry. YOU make yourself angry."
This is the first time in days that I've cried.
I dont think I will say anything to him right now. I know my emotions will take over.
thats a good idea. i was told to wait 24-48 hrs before i start asking questions or having "chats". alot of times what i want to say i the moment changes with time. i dont do this as much as i should but am getting better. keep your head up.
When they see you GAL, it does at first. Don't hang out with this type of aggressive behavior.
SD: I didn't see this, but what does your H think about your male friend? You will do what you need to do, but I can only say from my perspective, I was not happy when H was at a female's house - no matter if they were *friends* or not. It doesn't send a good message to me personally. I also know when I had a male friend that H was silently jealous (which I found out later). You know your situation better.
Don't talk to him if it's going to make you emotional. It took me about 2 months for me to not cry/plead/beg, and now I can look at him and talk to him without me taking on his emotions. (It took me longer than it would have had I read the Codependent No More book earlier!)
Please get the Codependent No More book this weekend and read it and do the exercises! It was such an eye opener for me. Your posts sound so much like me in the beginning. Just breathe, line up your hobbies, start plans on going out to do them, and let him have a temper tantrum. You are not the cause of his emotions - and don't let him be the cause of yours. You can't fix it.
Hey Lio,
My husband has no idea whose house I was at. I know that he isn't particularly fond of this particular friend, but he doesn't know what I was anyway.
I went to the library to get the book today, and of course the library was closed.
My marriage counselor called because I wanted to see what I should do. He basically said that, since he clearly doesn't want to talk to me and is acting like this, I should hand-write a note and leave it for him and to ask him to list things that can make this easier for both of us. Like, how can we be civil if we're going to have to co-exist in the same apartment. I feel like this is pursuing though?!?
I then told the marriage counselor this and I mentioned MWD and he mentioned the see-saw thing. He said that maybe what I was doing was a good idea then. Thanks, Mr. Marriage counselor?
And no one is around to do anything tonight and I feel absolutely trapped.
Go to a dinner and a movie. Go to the book store and read. Get comfortable with yourself. You don't always need other people to enjoy life.
When I leave the apartment, do I even say anything to him? I'll have to walk by him...
you also don't need to leave the house if you don't want to.
And I agree with ScaredSilly, you don't need other people either!
Here's some ideas that I do at home (I am trying to be more comfortable at home instead of on the go go go with other people all the time):
start a relaxing ritual - light candles and:
Read (a real book, no internet!)
Watch a movie with popcorn
Learn to knit, or crochet
paint
cook something new
anyway, you get the idea.
SD...
I feel your pain... though my W moved out two weeks ago today, she uses me as her primary care plan so she can work at hospital to afford rent on new apartment... I have the boys more than she does (which I don't mind when they are up, we are having a great time) but as soon as they go to bed I'm left alone with nothing but my thoughts... VERY difficult to process everything... and GAL is tough when you have a 8 and 5yo tagging along... I'm praying a lot and beginning to read the bible.. I have faith that my sitch will work out in God's time.. good luck to you... do your best... have faith, be good and stay safe...
When I leave the apartment, do I even say anything to him? I'll have to walk by him...
Sure if you want to. "Hey, I'll see you later!" works just fine. (and say it with a smile in your voice because you should be excited to GAL!) No, you don't need to tell him what you are up to.
FF
I have the same issue, I'm fine while D7 is up, but when goes to sleep, I get into a funk.
Thanks everyone. I think I am going to head to the bookstore and read something, since the library is closed. Thanks for your replies and support.
SD - bookstore is a great idea. I've done that, too! Have a nice night!
On my way out, a friend asked if I wanted to grab a drink so I said ok! I said see you later! On the way out and husband angriy said bye
See? He gets angry no matter what. Just enjoy yourself.
He went to sleep at someone else's house tonight I guess. He left his laptop open so I read his latest Facebook message, which was to his best friend. He said things have gotten bad again and now we are just working on moving on and dividing our possessions (since when?? He's just selling them.)
I'm going out with some friends today. I'm looking forward to it.
Other than getting a life and not pursuing, I don't feel like I've made any other changes yet. I've been trying to smile more and be more upbeat, but I feel like he has not noticed.
What other behavioral changes should I be making?
Like this morning. I was in the kitchen getting breakfast. He woke up and started walking past me without saying anything or looking at me so I said good morning! and he just said hi and went into the bathroom.
Also, should I even start to try to engage him in conversation?
No, but exchanging pleasantries like, "good morning" is just being polite. He's noticing. He's just trying to justify his position that he should leave the M.
Keep doing what you're doing. It took a while to get where you are today. It will take time to get back.
I agree with scaredsilly! Keep being kind and he will notice. If things have been bad for a while he may not trust it. Consistency on your part. You can't control him. Now if I could only take my own advice:-)
Thanks, guys. I think that he thinks I'm just being resentful by not pursuing or talking to him. He was always so concerned that I'd "hate" him for doing this and I think he thinks that I'm trying to show him that I hate him.
... Like, I'm wondering if he thinks that I wouldn't be interested in talking to him or even if he changed his mind, he wouldn't try to speak to me about because he feels I don't want to talk to him, since I haven't.
Thanks, guys. I think that he thinks I'm just being resentful by not pursuing or talking to him. He was always so concerned that I'd "hate" him for doing this and I think he thinks that I'm trying to show him that I hate him.
he's upset because you are NOT being a bee-otch about it! LOL! it doesn't fit with his preconceived picture of your reactions to his plan.
just keep doing what you're doing. do it for yourself. show YOURSELF you can control your emotions and not react to his anger. do it to be a better YOU!
and as you were advised several times before, get out of his head.
Thank Yoi everyone. I feel Optimistic about life in general right now
Other than getting a life and not pursuing, I don't feel like I've made any other changes yet. I've been trying to smile more and be more upbeat, but I feel like he has not noticed.
What other behavioral changes should I be making?
Your changes are for you, remember.
Other than getting a life and not pursuing, I don't feel like I've made any other changes yet. I've been trying to smile more and be more upbeat, but I feel like he has not noticed.
What other behavioral changes should I be making?
If you could build the ultimate SophieDaphne model, what would that look like? Think of it like a collage project.
Also has H ever said anything that you could do differently (what were his complaints), and do you agree with that? For example, my H would call me 'needy', and I agree. So guess what one thing I worked on?
He says I'm too dependent. So, I haven't been dependent! I know he didn't like that he did all the work around the house, so I've been trying to do little things like making the bed and taking out the garbage. He doesn't like that I don't give him space when he needs it. So, I have been! He doesn't like that I haven't truly appreciated what he did for us. I have been trying to say thank you and be upbeat but if he doesn't talk to me there's not much else I can do.
Those are good things. Did Chuck suggest anything else for you to work on?
He said to smile and upbeat. I've been trying. But it's so difficult when he won't even look or talk to me. It seems like a lot of spouses are at least talking to one another. I avoid being home right now because of all of the tension.
He said to smile and upbeat. I've been trying. But it's so difficult when he won't even look or talk to me. It seems like a lot of spouses are at least talking to one another. I avoid being home right now because of all of the tension.
Not true. My h would speak to me with venom in his tone. I avoided conversation with him and tried to remain upbeat (hard to do, I know). I had the thought of "it's his proble, not mine" rolling through my head. It was verrrry difficult to be cut out like that. You remind me so much of me, so I hope you don't mind me telling you: I wanted to cry because of the silence or the hatred (and slipped a few times, mind you). Eventually, I stopped caring as much (practice makes perfect!) and I've been so much less stressed because of it. It is your choice how you want to present yourself to the world. Strong, upbeat, a fighter? Confident? Or one who will be afraid of his reaction?
It's his problem. His anger, his reactions. You can't control that. There is absolutely NOTHING you can do to change him, or his mind. Only he will do that. You smile, keep doing all those wonderful things you listed above. When it's tough for you and you feel like you are flailing, failing, or falling, come post instead.
And to take the focus off him (you really are doing good 180s), what hobbies, projects, goals have you set for yourself? What makes sophiedaphne tick? What is her passion? can you break down a goal into measurable outcomes?
This is what I'm doing because it makes me focus on me, not h. Not H's reaction.