Divorcebusting.com

Sandi2's 37 Rules

Posted By: dbmod

Sandi2's 37 Rules - 06/02/12 02:10 AM

I THINK these were first posted by Sandi2. If not, please let me know and I'll correct.

I do know lots of folks go looking for these:
Quote:


1.Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or implore! This turns the spouse completely off!

2. No frequent phone calls to spouse.......let him/her be the one to call you. Then don't try to hang on to your spouse through conversation.....instead, you say good-bye first.

3. Do not point out good points in marriage or try to get him/her to read marriage books, look at your M pictures, etc. Especially, do not get him/her to read the DB/DR book. That is for you only!

4. Do not follow your spouse around the house like a puppy dog trying to get his/her time and attention.

5. Do not encourage talk about the future. They don't want to think about a future with you at the moment, so stay clear of that subject.

6. Do not ask for help from family members or friends. Don't discuss private matters with them that would upset your spouse.

7. Do not ask for reassurances (That is showing neediness and being clingy.) Show self-respect and self confidence.

8. Do not buy gifts to make "brownie points". (Can't buy his/her love and affection.)

9. Do not schedule dates together at this point. (That is pursuing.) Save for later when the R is much better.

10. Do not spy on spouse by checking emails, phone bills, etc. (Not good for you and will make matters worse.)

11. Do not say "I Love You" (It is being "pushy" and trying to make your spouse say it back to you......he/she will despise you for it.)

12. Act "as if" you are moving on with your life with or without them and that you are going to be okay. Keep a good attitude.
13. Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive at all times! In other words, be the best you can be and look the best you can look at all times. Even when wearing jeans and T-shirt, wear good cologne, b/c it does cause the spouse to take notice.

14. Don't sit around waiting on your spouse to see what kind of mood he/she is in or what he/she is going to do or say – get busy, think of things to do. Go to church, go out with friends, etc. in order to get a life for yourself without waiting on your wife/husband.....but it is okay to invite them, just don't act as if it will change your plans if they do or don't go.

15. When at home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation---then don't, wait for him/her) then, be rather scarce or with your words, but don't sound rude or too short like you are mad. If your spouse asks what's wrong....just say "nothing" and have a pleasant expression on your face. Keep it short and simple. Don't get into an argument! Stay polite and don’ t act like you are pouting. Use poise and class. This does not mean to act like you aren’t speaking, but don’t be overly talkative.

16. If you are in the habit of asking your spouse his/her whereabouts, ASK THEM NOTHING!! No matter what time he/she comes home! You are giving them space and asking no questions! You enjoy your time with your kids, friends, etc. Remember, you are getting a life, also.

17. You need to make your partner think that you have had an awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to move on with your life, with or without your spouse.

18. Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull back and wait to see if spouse notices and, more important, realize what he/she will be missing. (But never ask him/her if he/she has noticed any changes!!) This is important! If you do, then you have blown it.

19. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. This can confuse some of them b/c it is not what they expected. Show your spouse someone he/she would want to be around all the time, somebody that can be attractive and fun to be with. That somebody is you! Don't overkill in your attempts to outshine another person your spouse may be having an A with (if there is OP in the picture) to the point of looking like your attempts are "fake" b/c your spouse will see through all of that.

20. All questions about marriage should be put on hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while) so this takes patient on your behalf.

21. Never lose your cool! Don't let your spouse trap you into a fight. Don't take her/his bait.....leave the room or the house for a while, if you have to, in order to avoid a fight.

22. Don't be overly enthusiastic, don't over-kill; in anything you do b/c it will come across as fake.

23. Do not argue about how your spouse feels about something (it only makes his/her feelings more negative.) Only they know how they feel!

24. Be patient......very, very patient. Give your spouse space and time. When you pull back, it will draw them towards you. It feels opposite of what you want to do, but it works!

25. Listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you. Look them in the eyes when they talk to you. Do not interrupt them when they are speaking and stop what you may be working on to look at them when they talk. This shows them that you really care about what they are saying.

26. Learn to back off, shut up and walk away when you want to speak out (or scream and yell).

27. Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil). This is for your health's sake.

28. Be strong and confident and learn to speak softly. Read self help books, inspirational books or listen to tapes. They are for you only.

29. Know that if you can do 180's, your smallest CONSISTENT actions will be noticed much more than any words you can say or write.

30. Do not be openly show that you are "desperate" or "needy" even when you are hurting more than ever and truly feel desperate and needy. This is a large turn-off for your spouse.

31. Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse, instead, focus on them.

32. Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives because he/she is hurting and scared.

33. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel.

34. Do not ask your spouse if he/she has noticed your changes. Those changes are for you and for the rest of your life...with or without your spouse. If it is just to get your spouse back...they won't last and the same problems will return.

35. Do not send several TM's or emails throughout the day unless absolutely necessary.

36. It is best to stay away from the bar scenes where other problems easily arise.

37. Do not backslide from your hard earned changes
Posted By: Starsky309

Re: Sandi2's 37 Rules - 06/02/12 02:44 AM

This should really be a STICKY. It's near-gospel stuff, and highly-sought.


Starsky
Posted By: JustStunned

Re: Sandi2's 37 Rules - 06/02/12 03:14 AM

Two votes STICKY.

When people arrive they need to start somewhere these provide guidence. They were as important to me as GAL activities and detachment. When activity on my threads lagged I could bounce my thoughts and plans off of these, see how they aligned and decide my course.
Posted By: 2thepoint

Re: Sandi2's 37 Rules - 06/02/12 03:50 AM

Agreed, stick it!!
Posted By: JustStunned

Re: Sandi2's 37 Rules - 06/04/12 01:40 AM

Thank You!!! smile Dbmod
Posted By: AlwaysTrying

Re: Sandi2's 37 Rules - 06/04/12 05:24 PM

I know this is in a sub-forum called "Advice From Wise DB'ers" and I was literally just about to head over there to re-read them just a moment ago when I noticed the sticky.

I can echo JustStunned's sentiments. When you're not sure how to respond, it always helps to re-read the list and reflect on it.
Posted By: zig

Re: Sandi2's 37 Rules - 06/06/12 02:28 AM

I know this is in a sub-forum called "Advice From Wise DB'ers"

hi always - can you help me find this, please - i haven't come across it. also what's a sub-forum?

thanks
zig
Posted By: JustStunned

Re: Sandi2's 37 Rules - 06/06/12 03:37 AM

@Zig, This link should get you there
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=postlist&Board=35&page=1
Posted By: sandi2

Re: Sandi2's 37 Rules - 06/06/12 02:11 PM

Ahhhhh, dbmod!

The list was my random thoughts of what the LBS should or should not do based on what I read from Michele, the results of what others had tried, and my own feelings when I was the WAS.

If I had known anyone would actually pass it on, I might have tried to organize the do's from the don'ts. But then, that would not have been my usual shoot from the hip fashion (which I know you love ..... wink. jk)
Posted By: AlwaysTrying

Re: Sandi2's 37 Rules - 06/06/12 03:34 PM

lol! Maybe you were shooting from the hip, sandi, but your advice has been copied and pasted and immortalized forever into literally dozens of different posts that I've read.

Are you saying you didn't come down from a mountain top one day with those 37 rules etched into slabs of stone?

wink

It has been a great help. Thanks, sandi.
Posted By: Cadet

Re: Sandi2's 37 Rules - 06/06/12 05:27 PM

Originally Posted By: sandi2
I might have tried to organize the do's from the don'ts.
Well there is always room for a new and improved version smile smile smile
Posted By: HollyAnn

Re: Sandi2's 37 Rules - 06/15/12 01:19 PM

Originally Posted By: Cadet
Originally Posted By: sandi2
I might have tried to organize the do's from the don'ts.
Well there is always room for a new and improved version smile smile smile


Yeah, get rid of # 10.
Knowledge is power and it is very foolish to stick your head in the sand.
Keep track of all spending!
WAS could be draining bank accts, wasting marital assets on the A (which is illegal in my state, and does not impress a judge at all!) hiding marital assets or otherwise shifting them around.
You may still be "in love" with WAS, but that doesn't mean you have to be poor too.
Posted By: sgctxok

Re: Sandi2's 37 Rules - 06/17/12 10:03 PM

Quote:
10. Do not spy on spouse by checking emails, phone bills, etc. (Not good for you and will make matters worse.)



I am COMPLETELY with sandi2 on this one....if you have ANY interest in saving your marriage.

Sometimes folks who think their spouse is in an affair think this helps them.

It doesn't.



It's the wrong focus either way. Unless you have your heart set on divorce, and that's not what this site is for.


It sets drama in motion.

Leads someone to set ultimatum, some folks set lot of other drama including exposure in motion. Once those things are set in motion, they cannot be retrieved.


There are a LOT of other attractive options that can be worked out in between. With or without a DB coach.


Sandi2 and others know how to give you ideas.
Posted By: sgctxok

Re: Sandi2's 37 Rules - 06/17/12 10:04 PM

Just an FYI--


The Sandi2 37points are the LRT.
Posted By: 25yearsmlc

Re: Sandi2's 37 Rules - 06/17/12 11:30 PM

Originally Posted By: sgctxok
Just an FYI--


The Sandi2 37points are the LRT.


how so? They are for pretty much all newcomers. Are we talking about the same points?

Nowhere was pleading/pursuing part of DBing, for instance, so why wait til LRT?

I'm Just not clear on what you mean SGT
Posted By: 25yearsmlc

Re: Sandi2's 37 Rules - 06/17/12 11:33 PM

Originally Posted By: Cadet
Originally Posted By: sandi2
I might have tried to organize the do's from the don'ts.
Well there is always room for a new and improved version smile smile smile


I think I tried to do that and invited comment on a thread in Newcomers. I could use help there. Can you join & add your thoughts there too, b/c it'll help a lot of folks? The comments I'm thinking we need the most are from vets

and questions can come from whomever....thanks!
Posted By: HollyAnn

Re: Sandi2's 37 Rules - 06/18/12 01:56 AM

Yeah, I never thought they were "sandi's" 37.
Could have sworn I read them in one of the DR books.
Posted By: 25yearsmlc

Re: Sandi2's 37 Rules - 06/18/12 02:08 AM

Originally Posted By: HollyAnn
Yeah, I never thought they were "sandi's" 37.
Could have sworn I read them in one of the DR books.


agreed but I don't think sandi ever tried to take credit for them. I think someone else posted them but for 'credibility" purposes, perhaps, called them "sandi's" and didn't take time to realize they came from the book.

On the thread I posted I added 3 that are clearly based on DB principles but more articulated by my Godsent DB coach Vernetta.

Anyhow, like I said i welcome feedback (but I don't want to hijack this thread) b/c I think it's a work in progress and truly the more the newcomers read them and take them in, the faster they'll progress.

Again though, I don't see this as LRT at all. At least not most of it. It's for newcomers when they get the bomb...that's not LRT.

Am I missing something?
Posted By: Starsky309

Re: Sandi2's 37 Rules - 06/18/12 02:30 PM

I'm confused too. I think most (maybe not all) of the 37 are just pretty much "common-sense" DBing, and not referring to either the LRT or the "after-the-LRT" at all? confused

I do think that once things go legal, it's only wise to keep track of spending, any "squandering of marital assets," etc., and it's ALWAYS wise to protect yourself medically. These aren't any different than any good lawyer or doctor would advise you once your spouse is wayward. I personally would rather know what I'm dealing with, ACCURATELY, but once you know what's going on, continuing to "snoop" will only make you nuts. Get your proof, file it away, and move on to working on yourself and making your own positive changes, in my opinion.


Starsky
Posted By: chatterbug

Re: Sandi2's 37 Rules - 06/27/12 01:53 AM

This started in 2009. There were a bunch of us who called it the db rules... Then when someone would ask for the 34 rules sandi would post them. So we just started to call them Sandi's list. And it just stuck.

And that snooping line. It changed too over time.

It used to be about monitoring activities and verification. The LRT one was to stop monitoring as the spouse was no longer living with you as then it would be spying. But like everything if you paid the phone bill then you would not be spying. You would be monitoring what your money goes towards.
Posted By: sandi2

Re: Sandi2's 37 Rules - 07/02/12 11:32 AM

Gee HollyAnn, do you have a problem with me? Why the attitude?
Posted By: mab1

Re: Sandi2's 37 Rules - 07/02/12 02:45 PM

Is there a similar list for LRT?
Posted By: dbmod

Re: Sandi2's 37 Rules - 07/09/12 02:06 AM

follow these rules and you will be following the LRT
Posted By: LosingHope61

Re: Sandi2's 37 Rules - 07/09/12 01:20 PM

This is a great help! Thank you for posting!
Posted By: professorjay

Re: Sandi2's 37 Rules - 07/24/12 07:04 PM

I just printed these out. I can already see things I did wrong when my wife filed for separation a year ago. This list will help remind me.
Posted By: AlkalineThoughts

Re: Sandi2's 37 Rules - 08/06/12 09:33 PM

I re-read this list at least once a week, especially when I know that I'm about to have a phone conversation with WAW. Thanks so much for posting these in an easy to find place!
Posted By: Snookee

Re: Sandi2's 37 Rules - 09/27/12 01:42 PM

These rules sound great; too bad I wasn't following them sooner, but its not to late.....I think?

Anyway, I was looking at #36 and the bar scene causing problems. What kind of problems does it mean? I can't stay home ALL the time and I need to get something in my life to make me happy. Music and a drink every now and then is no good? Maybe it means something that I wouldn't do anyway. Thanks:)
Posted By: Crying out loud

Re: Sandi2's 37 Rules - 10/17/12 06:17 AM

Thank you for this.
Posted By: Snookee

Re: Sandi2's 37 Rules - 12/29/12 01:02 AM

What about when you haven't had any contact with your spouse? I thought that in November we were on the way to a possible reconciliation. The OW threw him out because he had been with me but after 3 weeks she took him back. Now we don't talk or have any contact. I'm crushed and am trying to just keep away. He doesn't live with me and I'm not sure how to be. Reach out sometimes to remind him I'm alive? Totally back off and let him be with this relationship? Let him screw it up himself? I don't know anymore.
Posted By: sandi2

Re: Sandi2's 37 Rules - 12/30/12 10:51 PM

Staying away from bar scenes is just my personal opinion. If you can handle it, then that is your choice, but the "other problems" I was referring to is when one may drink too much on top of their vulnerability and they may tend to make bad decisions. Everything from one night stands, causing jealousy, getting into physical fights, etc., are examples of what I meant.


When I wrote that, I had been following a couple of threads where they would go to the bars and end up with more problems.

If you are not living with your S and he is interested in OP, you need to go dark.
Posted By: asadgirl

Re: Sandi2's 37 Rules - 01/08/13 03:16 PM

As a newcomer I LOVE this post. My husband keeps telling me it is over and that I shouldn't think this is salvageable. I did things wrong until finding this site. I was begging and pleading; emailing and texting; would basically lick the floor if he asked me to do so. I am pathetic.
There is a list a mile long of names he has called me and trying to "drill" it in my head "it is over, just except it". Boy do I wish I could. But I can't and that is what brought me here.

To be able to read these "rules" over and over have helped so much. When he does say those things, it gives me hope that he doesn't mean it. It hurts so bad that it is unbearable and I feel like I could explode. Now I can just read this and feel better.

Thanks again!!!
Posted By: Mileus

Re: Sandi2's 37 Rules - 01/19/13 01:12 AM

I printed this the day I found it. (4 days ago). I have probably read it 30 or 40 times since then. There is something comforting about a list. Thank you.

I don't know if I'll be able to save the marriage, but at least I feel hope and a sense that I can heal.
Posted By: Juanton

Re: Sandi2's 37 Rules - 01/20/13 11:24 PM

As a newcomer I have pulled up the page on my iPhone and screenshotted the rules and set it as my lock screen that way I can look at the rules anytime.
Posted By: LBH_LC

Re: Sandi2's 37 Rules - 01/29/13 04:50 PM

I read this list several times a day; thank you.
Posted By: Occy01

Re: Sandi2's 37 Rules - 02/10/13 02:54 PM

Thank you so much for this list! Gets my thoughts focused when they are proving to be too many, too fast!!
Posted By: EngineThatCould

Re: Sandi2's 37 Rules - 02/17/13 05:19 PM

The list is great...i read it three time / day!
Posted By: SugarBaby31

Re: Sandi2's 37 Rules - 02/23/13 05:44 AM

Great reminder.
Posted By: LoveU2

Re: Sandi2's 37 Rules - 03/18/13 12:37 AM

Such a helpful practical list, thank you for putting this together.
Posted By: Fartiltre

Re: Sandi2's 37 Rules - 04/16/13 08:40 PM

This is the best....simple and easy to understand
Thanks!
Posted By: TryingToDo180

Re: Sandi2's 37 Rules - 06/18/13 09:28 PM

Great list! I'd say don't get rid of any of the rules, they are there for a reason! I fully understand why number 10 has to be there, I sometimes have a go and look at H's facebook page to see if there's any activity on there (he doesn't go on that much!) or he's added someone else. It is tormenting and I should really delete him off my fb page but for some reason I can't bring myself to do this just yet!
My H is going to see a solicitor sometime in July to start the divorce proceedings. He was going to see her in June, but he delayed it for a month as he felt I wasn't talking to him! (this was when I first started the LRT). Hopefully by keeping up with this list and the LRT, he may delay it again if he thinks I'm still not talking to him! I've just got to find a way for him to realise I'm not talking to him as much on the phone as there's always some reason I've got to phone him and it is urgent things that can't wait! He wanted me to phone him tonight to let him know how my son did in his exams, but I wanted a night off smile
Since starting the LRT/180 list and now Sandi's list, H is now contacting me more and trying to interact more with me. Last Saturday he ended up helping run a stall at the Church fete when originally he was only going to be there to pick up our son. He bought me a burger, a cupcake and a mug of coffee. Well there's progress for you!
I was confused about the bar scene rule, but after having it explained then I can understand that! You don't have to be in a bar though. I went out with my friend on Sunday and when I got back home my H was waiting for me. He was talking to me, but because I'd had a couple of drinks I wasn't that bothered when he started talking negatively to me. In fact I wasn't really interested at all in what he had to say!
I'm not perfect! When he first told me he was filing for D, I begged and pleaded with him. I did a whole load of things that the list tells you not to do! I've learnt since smile
Posted By: Hopeingforher

Re: Sandi2's 37 Rules - 07/05/13 07:59 PM

Ive read the rules over and over yet do they really work? I can see maybe or maybe push them further away were is a gurentee something please
Posted By: TryingToDo180

Re: Sandi2's 37 Rules - 07/05/13 08:50 PM

I think it does smile Since applying DB rules and Sandi's rules my H has become more curious as to what I'm up to. He is the one now who is pursuing me. Slowly but surely though. I talk about a future without him in it, because that is what he wants to hear at the moment. For instance, he was looking to get rid of some stuff out of his "office". I asked him to move it to the spare room so it can be a games room for our son. He thought this was a great idea and came round one day last week and moved it all. Our son loves his new room and can't wait to have his friends over to play video games in it smile
I used to find excuses to ring him, now the only time I get in touch with him is when it's to do with our son. Today he rang me twice! He's picking up our son tomorrow, so there was no need to ring me.
I didn't think it was going to work either. I thought it would drive him further away but it doesn't smile He left to have more space away from me and that's what I'm giving him, loads of it!
Don't knock it until you've tried it, give it 2 weeks and see what happens! Let me know how things develop smile Good luck smile
Posted By: DFE

Re: Sandi2's 37 Rules - 07/05/13 09:16 PM

Life doesn't give you guarantees. All I can tell you is I've tried it both ways. The begging, pleading, reasoning just made him more angry with me. Think back to when your parents told you not to do something or that something wasn't good for you. It made you more eager to try it.

I opened up the doors of the "cage" and let him out. He's been gone about a week and he's been here almost everyday on his own. Text me today on his way and asked if I'd had lunch and came here and ate it.
Posted By: TryingToDo180

Re: Sandi2's 37 Rules - 07/05/13 09:40 PM

See this is where it gets confusing for me. at the end of May, I thought that things were turning a corner. My H was coming round every day and I made him a couple of meals. We'd speak on the phone nearly every day. I thought things were on the turn, but then a week later he told me he was going to the solicitor to file for D. A couple of days later, I asked him to delay it so I could finish my course and he said no. When he went to see the solicitor though he delayed it for a month because I had started doing a 180 on him and he wondered why I wasn't speaking to him.
I've carried on doing a 180 on him and he's started being in my life more. This time I'm taking nothing for granted as I know any day now he's going to be back at the solicitors. My head was spinning last Monday, I was so confused! My heart was jumping with joy, but my head was saying "remember what happened last time!" I hardly got any sleep that night!
I'm just taking every day as it comes smile
DFE, you must love your H very much to forgive him each time he goes away. This is only the second time my H has done this, the first time was 12 years ago when he had an affair.
We both must be crazy! lol smile
Posted By: DFE

Re: Sandi2's 37 Rules - 07/06/13 12:25 AM

TryingToDo180 it's not so much loving him but keeping my family together. Although I do love him this is the third time he has done this to me. Granted we never resolved the issues from the first time and life just took over but I am still angry and it still hurts. However I have two kids and a family with him. P,us we own a very successful business together. So to answer your question I do love him but I am angry and haven't forgiven him. I just want to put my family back together. One of my boys is very attached to his daddy. He comes downstairs alone in the morning looking for his dad and sits on the couch alone waiting for him. It breaks my heart. I don't want to see them hurt.

My H suffers from anxiety and depression or maybe I am the cause of his depression. I also never got over our first separation and was always expecting him to leave. We have lost the friendship and I now see where I didn't treat him right. He's a good guy just confused as heck. I don't believe in divorce and will fight for my family.
Posted By: Hopeingforher

Re: Sandi2's 37 Rules - 07/06/13 03:37 AM

New question with the rules it says no gifts but my anniversary is comeing up soon should I get her something or just causally say happy anniversery
Posted By: TryingToDo180

Re: Sandi2's 37 Rules - 07/06/13 08:50 AM

I agree with everything you say DFE smile I don't believe in D either, I take my marriage vows seriously. I also want my family back together again and I think that my son does as well. My son has high functioning autism, so he finds change hard. He is trying to plan our summer holidays together, but I also need to sort out my finances. The local council is being awkward about my benefits and I've got to produce a load of stuff they want. When I said that I've a lot to sort out since H had left, my son said I hate this! I said so do I but it has to be done! He's got his friend coming round next Friday so that's cheered him up smile
My H also suffers from anxiety and depression. You mustn't blame yourself for his depression, it's a chemical imbalance in his brain. My H tried to blame me for his depression, but I don't buy it! I know he's going through a MLC as well, he's even said that he's a 25 year old trapped in a 48 year olds body.
Posted By: DFE

Re: Sandi2's 37 Rules - 07/06/13 01:21 PM

TryingToDo180 I don't blame myself for his depression he does. And now that he is gone I see how happy he looks. Like a big weight has been lifted off of his back. That big weight being me. It hurts to see him so happy being away from his family.
Posted By: TryingToDo180

Re: Sandi2's 37 Rules - 07/06/13 03:15 PM

Originally Posted By: DFE
TryingToDo180 I don't blame myself for his depression he does. And now that he is gone I see how happy he looks. Like a big weight has been lifted off of his back. That big weight being me. It hurts to see him so happy being away from his family.


I think we've got the same H's, lol. That's how my H has been since he left. He even told my friend that it was like a big weight being lifted off his shoulders. Well when I say friend, I don't think it's nice that she had to repeat that to me! That comment still really hurts and I've distanced myself from her now!
Posted By: DFE

Re: Sandi2's 37 Rules - 07/06/13 06:39 PM

The WAS seem to have a lot of characteristics in common. Nobody understands what the LBS goes through unless they have been there themselves. That's why people can sometimes sound insensitive. I am sure your friend wasn't trying to hurt you. It's just we are super sensitive right now.

I agree it shouldn't have been repeated to you. It doesn't do any good. What purpose does it serve? Again people don't understand what we are going through. I feel like they think we are dumb and can't see what is going on. On the contrary. We see what's happening and struggle with it daily. We also see the bigger picture. We see that breaking up a home and family isn't always the best choice. And that if one spouse is in turmoil and not making the best decisions it doesn't mean we shouldn't stand up for our families and do what we know is right.
Posted By: 25yearsmlc

Re: Sandi2's 37 Rules - 07/06/13 08:32 PM

Originally Posted By: Judd
Ive read the rules over and over yet do they really work? I can see maybe or maybe push them further away were is a gurentee something please


Of course there were Never any guarantees, & we cannot offer you any now.
The "rules" are merely guidelines sandi assembled, based on DB principles.

Obviously, if your spouse says you "never pursued her" or "ever showed interest"
Then SOME of the rules would take a backseat to the 180s.

If you are looking for ANY guarantee then i will only be able to give you a few.
I "guarantee" you will Not be more attractive to your spouse by pleading, or radiating misery.
It's not appealing & it does Not "prove" your love.
I "guarantee" that doing Needed 180's are helpful.

Under All circumstances, becoming the Best YOU possible, i.e., "a man/woman only a fool would leave" gives You the best chance at happiness,
with or without your spouses return.
Do an honest inventory & strongly consider the feedback your WAS gave you.
Then do YOUR work...
IF there's a secret to this, that's it.
But I think even when you do your work & make permanent needed changes, of course it might still be too little too late.

Does that mean it's not worth it? I sure hope not.

Because if the only reason you are making any changes is to get your spouse back, you're missing the most valuable piece of this journey.
Plus your changes are not real, they're tactics.

Stay with an approach long enough to know if it's working. There are rarely fast results in this process. Don't pin your hopes on a few grand gestures.

Consistent changes + sufficient time = change a spouse can believe in.

Make the NEEDED changes in you, b/c You believe they are valid changes You want to make. You'll be a better person & sometimes, that has to be enough.
Posted By: DFE

Re: Sandi2's 37 Rules - 07/06/13 08:43 PM

Yay 25yearsmlc I am glad to see a success story. I saw in your signature line that you have put your marriage back together. That gives me hope.

I agree begging and pleading are the only ways to guarantee that this won't work. You lose your self esteem and your spouse loses their self respect for you.
Posted By: 25yearsmlc

Re: Sandi2's 37 Rules - 07/06/13 09:11 PM

DFE,
Like you, I was very angry at my h for selfish choices.
But my DB coach gave me great advice, which i learned to follow.

Lose the anger & work on real forgiveness.
It is NOT condoning their actions. Forgiveness
Means letting go of the past & doing what
Our vows said to do, " go from this day forward."

You admit he did this twice before, but nothing was resolved when
You reconciled. I don't call that a real reconciliation.
More like, he just moved back in.

***Without NEW TOOLS & New behaviors

How can we expect to improve our marriages?

Isn't it clear we'll be right back here again, if we
Learn nothing and repeat the same behaviors?***

Do this DB approach because You want to live a life unencumbered by pain from
The past. You want the weight of the past OFF your shoulders (but not on his!)

If your h knows he's going to come home to an angry or
Disappointed wife, might he Not want to come home?

For a long time i resented my h's career choices (medicine) & when he'd
Work late for extra cases, i blamed him for putting the
Accolades of his colleagues or patients ahead of his family's needs.

Sometimes i was "factually right", other times not. But being "Right" is Not as important as being happy or loving!

Back then, i feared being warm/loving when he'd come home late.
I did not want to "reward" his selfish choices, after all.

So For years he came home to a w with her arms crossed, literally & figuratively.

Took me a great DB coach to ask
" how is THAT approach working?" And
What are you teaching your kids?

And my fav question,

"What if you gave your h a loving home to return to? Might he miss that more than an angry "right" wife?" Yikes, for an educated woman, i sure could be stubborn.

My DB coach was so totally right.

My h never takes extra cases now, unless he needs to AND he asks me my opinion. That's a big change in him, which followed huge changes in Me.

Please let go of the past and work on problems you now have.

The anger, (or at least showing him that anger from the past), only makes it seem impossible that he'll ever be out of the dog house with you.
Plus it sounds as if you blame him for all of it.

Keep the Road Home, Paved & Smooth.

That does Not mean be a doormat. No marriage is worth saving "at ALL costs", but you can only change You. That's where the focus must be.

Good luck!
Posted By: 25yearsmlc

Re: Sandi2's 37 Rules - 07/06/13 09:20 PM

PS see if Retrovaiile is in your area. It's just for couples in crisis. Really eye opening and very helpful.
Posted By: DFE

Re: Sandi2's 37 Rules - 07/06/13 09:23 PM

Wow nicely said. You are right he just moved back in. I now regret not using his return as a chance to work on things. Instead I let me anger take over. Instead of giving him a warm and loving house to come home to he knew coming home it would be to my attitude and my passive aggressive sarcastic attitude. I shut down because I was so hurt. I hope I have the chance to change all that around. He has said he is done trying and that we just need to cut our losses but his behavior tells me otherwise.

We do have 2 kids together so I don't know if he is coming around just to see them or wants to see me too but he spends time with us and it's his choice. I just hope that we have the opportunity to put this back together. I never told him or showed him how much I loved him and how important he was in our lives. I was so angry that I always wanted to take a shot at him.

My coach is amazing too. Every time I speak to her I feel empowered. I am glad you were able to reconcile. I was starting to wonder if DB worked. Thanks for the feedback I really needed it. I have let go of the anger this time. I am done being upset. I just want him home where he belongs.
Posted By: TryingToDo180

Re: Sandi2's 37 Rules - 07/07/13 12:12 AM

Originally Posted By: DFE
The WAS seem to have a lot of characteristics in common. Nobody understands what the LBS goes through unless they have been there themselves. That's why people can sometimes sound insensitive. I am sure your friend wasn't trying to hurt you. It's just we are super sensitive right now.

I agree it shouldn't have been repeated to you. It doesn't do any good. What purpose does it serve? Again people don't understand what we are going through. I feel like they think we are dumb and can't see what is going on. On the contrary. We see what's happening and struggle with it daily. We also see the bigger picture. We see that breaking up a home and family isn't always the best choice. And that if one spouse is in turmoil and not making the best decisions it doesn't mean we shouldn't stand up for our families and do what we know is right.


that is so true and our friends should be told about this smile I related the post to one of my friends tonight. Even though she's not as back as my other friend, she still needs reminding at times!
Posted By: 25yearsmlc

Re: Sandi2's 37 Rules - 07/07/13 02:12 AM

TT,

Instead of punishing the friend for repeating what your h told her (= punishing the messenger)
Why not use that comment as insight into how your h sees things?
Because that is the truth--HE believed it when he said it, anyhow.

Contrast that negative image he has, with a Positive image or comment. For instance instead of cutting Her off, because His comment hurt you, tell her another truth, which is that you
" sure hope he's not depressed Because of you, because You want him to be happy. However, you've learned that WE are all Each responsible for Creating our own happiness."
And you wish nothing but good things for him. That's a loving healthy comment to make.

Then be upbeat, showing your new PMA.

Otherwise, by feeling angry & hurt because HE told her he's feeling better now, you just fuel His concerns...you must counter those negative views, not confirm them.


Make sense?

Remember, this isn't about being "right" and we MUST NOT keep scorecards in our marriages.

Even good families sometimes hurt each other.
The lethal problem is when we keep a litany of grievances and constantly Measure what We THINK WE have done that was good, vs what We think They have done to harm us.

Our spouses have a different scoring system. Usually, on THEIR scorecards, we are Not ahead...
So i strongly suggest you drop the scorecard. TT, if i recall your family dynamics well, you were brought up with lots of score keeping, judging, controlling and some co-dependent issues.

You do Not have to repeat those behaviors in your marriage.

You Can break the cycle & you must, if you are to move forward.

Like my coach said, Keep the Road Home, Paved & Smooth...

so don't make it harder than it already would be, for him to come home.

None of this means you should Enable him to avoid responsibilities, but it's not your job to teach him a lesson or show him the consequences of his actions either.

As my coach said, " Life teaches them lessons, not spouses."

I think you need to do some deeper digging, and be brave about it.

Those of us on the " other side of this ordeal" all had to face some things in us that were Not easy or fun to face.

But it's so worth it.
Posted By: TryingToDo180

Re: Sandi2's 37 Rules - 07/07/13 07:54 AM

Yes you are so right MLC smile I haven't actually cut off my friend that made that comment and maybe H did say it. I have been starting to got this house in some sort of order now since I've left college.
I don't get in touch frequently with my friend that made the comment either. She's got issues of her own and lacks PMA real bad! Everything that comes out of her mouth is negative, this is because she's suffering from depression at the mo. I'm trying to keep my PMA up and when I'm with her, she just brings me down.
I will do what you suggest and turn these negative statements into positives smile I can't do that with her though as she'll bring it back to a negative! She's what you call a toxic friend. She thinks that I shouldn't be hopeful that H will come back home eventually and she doesn't want me to get hurt. I keep telling her that I'm not being that hopeful and I won't get hurt. I'm being realistic, but for my PMA I need to have a tiny bit of hope tucked deep inside me smile Does that make sense?
Posted By: TryingToDo180

Re: Sandi2's 37 Rules - 07/07/13 01:42 PM

Originally Posted By: Hopeingforher
New question with the rules it says no gifts but my anniversary is comeing up soon should I get her something or just causally say happy anniversery


I wouldn't even acknowledge it! My H left a few days before our anniversary and I just ignored the whole day as if it was a normal day! My MIL phoned to say she'd put some money in the bank and perhaps me and my son would like to go out for a meal or do something. It took me a bit to realise that it was our anniversary and I said I'd forgotton, lol.
Posted By: 25yearsmlc

Re: Sandi2's 37 Rules - 07/08/13 12:29 AM

Dear Hoping,

I don't know your situation but I'm sure this is Not a one size fits all.

The issues are usually centered around Not pursuing, versus those who need pursuit due to the dynamics of their situation. Love Languages play into this as well.

My former BIL left my sister after 22 years if m, and 3 kids...On their anniversary, He sent flowers with a note saying "it's still worth remembering."

Though my sister shed some tears, she was also very touched.


Hope, if there are children from the marriage, isn't it true that If the only way you could have those children in your life - was to endure all that you have endured,

you would do it all again, in a heartbeat? (That's good for your kids to know as well, btw).
IMO there's nothing wrong with acknowledging the gifts the marriage will always have provided...

I assume your issue, Hope, is that you do not want to appear to be pursuing her?
Is there a way you can show gratitude for the kids and a PMA, without appearing to pursue her?

I will have to review your thread perhaps.

Good luck
Posted By: 25yearsmlc

Re: Sandi2's 37 Rules - 07/08/13 02:13 AM

PLEASE, TO BE CLEAR, the "rules" are NOT RULES.

They are guidelines based on MWDs's work, that are GENERAL
in nature.

Of course there are exceptions. But it's more than that. There are some "rules" that are suggestions for if/when they apply to YOUR situation...

There is NO ONE for whom all the rules will apply, b/c there are inherently contradictory "rules" (b/c your 180s will vary!).
Make sense?


Think of it this way. As an example, IF YOUR 180 is to give gifts, (b/c you rarely gave them before OR you did not put much thought into it, or you bought gift certificates b/c they were easier, etc)

and your wife SAID (or you somehow KNOW) she wishes you spoke her "love language", which is gifts

and then on your anniversary you give NO gifts b/c you say "that's what the RULES told me to do so I would not be pursuing her...", then you would be missing the point big time.


The 180s and the legit needed changes you want to make in you, are THE BIG rules....follow them first!

(And of course always ask yourself if what you are about to do or say is going to move you TOWARDS your goal or just get something off your chest...



The rest of the 37 or 40 or whatever it is now, follow, but if/when they conflict, then THINK about the big picture.

Okay? Hope that helps, b/c the rules are NOT to be confusing. If they are confusing you then don't use them.

Hang in there and keep asking for clarification. You may have to go find the vets who can best answer b/c I think you'll get LESS confused. And I know that feels a lot better than the confusion this situation first brings...
Posted By: Hopeingforher

Re: Sandi2's 37 Rules - 07/12/13 03:23 PM

All the advice I have been recieveing has been helpful I still dealing with the emptiness in my soul. I will keep working on my 180s I started councling to learn how to deal with my emotions.
I like to ask my next question and that is will there come a time or how will I know if I should start pursueing her as in courting/dateing or do I do nothing and just wait?
I feel like her puppet right now on a string.
Posted By: TryingToDo180

Re: Sandi2's 37 Rules - 07/12/13 04:59 PM

Just do nothing, let her do all the pursuing. It does get easier, I promise smile Once you GAL of your own, she is pushed to the back of your mind and you'll probably find that she starts ringing you up more. At this point, don't take anything she says or does for granted. There will be a lot of baby steps along the way. Take each baby step as a step in the right direction. The only time that you can start pursuing her again is the time she tells you that she really wants you back smile That time may not come for you or me, which is why we need to work on ourselves and find a life without our spouses in it. She is going to have to work around you now, not the other way around!
Have you got kids? I can't remember. If you have you must spend the time you've got with them happy and full of fun!
Posted By: Hopeingforher

Re: Sandi2's 37 Rules - 07/13/13 03:41 AM

Yes I have kids and whats killing me and her is the 3 year old gets on the phone and says mommy when are you comeing home? Ive told her the last time he did that you came home well at least you body was here your mind was not and I told her not to come back this time because he says that but come home when your ready to be my wife and partner was that the right thing to do
Posted By: TryingToDo180

Re: Sandi2's 37 Rules - 07/13/13 05:10 PM

I think that was the right thing to do, but I'm not expert! You certainly don't want her yoyoing between the two houses and like you said it'll be bad for the kids. Keep working on yourself and PMA smile
Posted By: Hopeingforher

Re: Sandi2's 37 Rules - 07/14/13 04:15 AM

Damn it the 3 year old did it again mommy come home daddy will get you making her cry after words she tells me how miserable she is feeling and what do I do fall into the trap again and say we really have to work this out for us and our son why do I keep doing that dang it Im very upset with my self
Posted By: TryingToDo180

Re: Sandi2's 37 Rules - 07/14/13 08:19 AM

Your children should be with their mum, it's unfair on the 3 year old. You will have to tell your wife to take care of your children. Of course the 3 yr old is going to miss his mum, a 3 yr old should be with his mum!
Instead of asking her to come back home, tell her she needs to take care of her children. I know you've probably told me this before, but what's her reason for leaving her kids with you?
Next time she tells you how miserable she is feeling, tell her that you are feeling miserable as well but you can't have her yoyoing between the 2 houses because that will really hurt you and the kids. Try not to make her feel guilty about the kids, you don't want her to come home for the wrong reasons!
The only other thing you can do is be a mum and dad to your kids. Make life fun for everyone, especially the 3 yr old. Do you live in the States? Can you get help to look after the kids? Do you work?
I know it's probably alien to you, but you could take the little one to activities at the library and mum and toddler groups. You may find another male there and if not I can guarantee you will get a lot of attention from the ladies. Not in that way, just that they will want to look after you.
Do you go to any single parent groups? They will give you lots of helpful advice as they've been in similar sitches.
Do a search on the internet for free or cheap activities in your area.
Hope this helps, you've got a lot of homework to do now smile
Posted By: MrBond

Re: Sandi2's 37 Rules - 07/14/13 11:00 AM

"I told her not to come back this time because he says that but come home when your ready to be my wife and partner was that the right thing to do"

Yes it was the wrong thing to do.
Posted By: TryingToDo180

Re: Sandi2's 37 Rules - 07/16/13 10:38 PM

I think this rule is a hard one to follow - 31. Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse, instead, focus on them.
Especially if you are used to telling them about your day!
I've just re-read the rules and I think this is the only one I'm not following.
I will practice this tomorrow when he comes round to see our son, but I mustn't ask where he's been or what he's been up to! lol.
The other rule I find hard is getting him to speak first, I hate long silences, lol.
Posted By: lost_hope

Re: Sandi2's 37 Rules - 07/31/13 11:54 AM

DFE, I very much love my husband but I can't say I'm in love with him anymore. I am also doing this for my family. He has done this to me more than once so even if he did come back I'd have a very difficult time with trust.

With respect to 180s not everyone can apply 180s in the same way. 180 is the mathematical representation of turning around or doing something on the opposite spectrum. So if your normal thing is not to be affectionate or say I love you then I would say your 180 can include "I love you". Same thing goes with going dark. If you're usually dark and distant then maintaining that would not be a 180. I think I'm correct on that but vets please feel free to jump in.
Posted By: TryingToDo180

Re: Sandi2's 37 Rules - 07/31/13 12:21 PM

I'm not a vet lost hope, but I think you are right in what you say. My problem is that my H didn't actually tell me why he'd left, I only got hints. What hints I did get though I've tried to apply 180 to smile
Posted By: mathwichi

Re: Sandi2's 37 Rules - 08/15/13 08:18 PM

I don't get #29. A 180 from what again?
Posted By: TryingToDo180

Re: Sandi2's 37 Rules - 08/20/13 04:19 PM

Originally Posted By: mathwichi
I don't get #29. A 180 from what again?


29. Know that if you can do 180's, your smallest CONSISTENT actions will be noticed much more than any words you can say or write.

Mathwichi, have you heard the phrase - actions speak louder than words? By following Sandi's rules then any small actions that you take, your spouse will notice. For example - When I started applying Sandi's rules and not contacting my H, all of a sudden he was contacting me more.
Hope this helps smile
Posted By: mathwichi

Re: Sandi2's 37 Rules - 08/22/13 07:42 PM

Got it, thanks!
Posted By: TryingToDo180

Re: Sandi2's 37 Rules - 08/23/13 10:04 PM

Originally Posted By: mathwichi
Got it, thanks!



That's good smile You're a quick learner smile I'm not very good at explaining things normally. How are you getting on with Sandi's rules?
Posted By: peaceSJ

Re: I'm a newcomer asking for help! - 08/26/13 06:55 PM

Here is my story. My husband and I are in early 40s and we've been married for about 17 years with two little kids. Most of time our marriage was fine except we didn't have much sexual life. In April of this year, my husband told me that he wants a divorce. He claimed that I didn't love him at all because most of time I didn't want sex with him. We are lack of initimacy. He was too frustrated about so many times when I rejected him for sex, so he decided to give up. I was so shocked. I agreed that I'm low interested in sex but that does not mean I don't love him. Actually I was trying to imporve myself. I know I loved him very much, and I did almost all the house work and take care of the kids. But he couldn't feel my love because I am a low sex driver. I admitted that's my problem. Since then I promised him I can make changes, and we also tried marriage consulor once. I even tried to initiate the sex with him. But he rejected everything. He doesn't want have sex with me any more, and said it has been too late and nothing I do can change his mind and soft his heart. When he said he does not love me any more, it hurt me so much. We are still living in the same house but in a seperate room. He closed the door every time when he was in his room. He even went some other cities by himself and didn't tell me where he went, leaving only me and our kids home.
Before I came to this forum, I did so many wrong things, such as crying, begging him, chasing him around the house, asking him to giving me another chance... but nothing worked.
I appreicaite it if some one here can give me some advices. Do I still have a chance to save our marriage? I really want ot save our marriage. I think other than the sex issue, we are good couple. I couldn't get to sleep every night, lost more than 10 lbs, and feel so hopeless and devastating now...

Is there any other things I can do to save our marriage? Not only for myself, but also for my two lovely kids...
Posted By: TryingToDo180

Re: I'm a newcomer asking for help! - 08/26/13 10:51 PM

Peace, is he still living with you or has he moved out? My marriage had the same problem, I lacked the intimacy that my H desired. Mine was low libido and repeated bouts of thrush. We also slept in separate rooms as my H snored and kept me awake.
All I can tell you to do is have patience, follow Sandi's rules at the top of the newcomers page and read divorce busting and divorce remedy.
Without knowing more about the current sitch, I can't advise you further, sorry. Hopefully others on here will be able to advise you further smile
Posted By: peaceSJ

Re: I'm a newcomer asking for help! - 08/26/13 11:11 PM

Thank you for your reply, Trytodo180. We are still living in the same house but in seperate rooms. I guess you and I have the similar situation. My husband and I slept in several rooms for several years for two reasons: 1) each of us take care of one kids when they were little; 2) his snore always kept me awake. But he agreed to this arrangement until lately he said he wanted divorce. But I told him I don't want divorce. So currently he didn't do anything but slept in his room and refused to do anything together with me. He even rejected to take kids out together with me, and insisted either him or me to take kis out to play.
I want to improve the intimacy but he rejected again. He claimed it is too late and nothing can change his mind. He said couple times that he does not love me any more. It really really hurt.
Posted By: TryingToDo180

Re: I'm a newcomer asking for help! - 08/27/13 04:52 PM

I feel sorry for you and your sitch frown It must be hard living in the same house as him. Can't he find somewhere else to go? It would make it a lot easier for you at the moment.
I think you will have to accept everything he's saying to you at the mo and lovingly detach from him. Have you read Divorce busting or divorce remedy? They are two good books to start you off smile
Read Sandi's rules at the top of the newcomers page as well. They are a good guideline for how to live your life when your H says that he doesn't love you anymore. Take care and keep us posted. We're here for you smile
Posted By: peaceSJ

Re: I'm a newcomer asking for help! - 08/27/13 05:29 PM

Thanks again. It is so hard to detach from him. I know how much I love him... and also everytime when I think about our two little kids, my heart is broken. I don't have any family member here and only have a few friends in this country. I came to USA only because my husband liked to live here... now I cannot imagine what my life will be without him. I don't want to give up him though I know I lost him already...I'm feeling so lonely now.
I started reading divorce remedy now...Thank you for your support.
Posted By: TryingToDo180

Re: I'm a newcomer asking for help! - 08/27/13 05:47 PM

you're welcome smile anytime you want to tell us something new that's happened in your life, either positive or negative then come here to post smile If there's anything in DR that you don't understand then ask questions on here. I'm sure someone will be able to help you out smile Look after yourself and your children and try to keep a healthy positive outlook on life smile
Posted By: peaceSJ

Re: Sandi2's 37 Rules - 08/28/13 04:50 PM

I'm following these rules now, but it seems my H didn't notice the change at all. If any of you are doing it, could you share the results? I do need some sucessful stories to encourage me. Otherwise I don't know if I shoud give up my hope...

BTW, what is 180?
Posted By: TryingToDo180

Re: Sandi2's 37 Rules - 08/28/13 06:08 PM

Hi Peace
Glad to see you're following Sandi's rules smile 180s are found in the divorce busting and divorce remedy books by MWD. She can describe them better than I can smile I'm sure a vet on here will be able to give you a good description of a 180. Sorry I can't be much help.
I try and follow Sandi's rules, but sometimes I miss one or two out because I forget them. You don't get an immediate result from Sandi's rules, it will take your H a while to even comment on them.
I suppose one of my successful rules is
2. No frequent phone calls to spouse.......let him/her be the one to call you. Then don't try to hang on to your spouse through conversation.....instead, you say good-bye first.
Though I haven't yet mastered the hanging up first bit yet, lol.
When my H first told me he wanted a D, I didn't contact him. I let him contact me first. He came round on Weds and said I thought I'd tell you that I'm delaying the D for another month so you can finish your college work. I've not heard anything about his D since!
The thing that he said was that he thought I would phone him on the Monday to ask how his interview went and I didn't! He said he thought he'd better delay the D as he then realised that I wasn't speaking to him!
If I need to speak to him now, I text him once and if he doesn't answer then I don't text him again until he answers my first text. These texts are only sent if I need to speak to him about my son.
He always initiates contact with me now.
Occasionally you may find that you break one of Sandi's rules. Don't beat yourself up about this, just start again! I've done this and I'm sure everyone else on here has done it at some point. The thing is to get back to doing it straight away. I've got a thread here called DB newcomer - second thread, which you can read how I've been doing since applying Sandi's rules.
Hopefully someone will come here to explain 180s to you.
Keep up the good work, you're doing great smile
Posted By: peaceSJ

Re: Sandi2's 37 Rules - 08/29/13 06:05 PM

Can anybody here give your input for my questions in other thread?

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...684#Post2380684

Thanks,
Posted By: Ambivalent

Re: Sandi2's 37 Rules - 08/30/13 04:29 AM

Hi Peace,

Let it be between he and your kids. This is part of the consequences of his decisions. You may choose to act " as if ". Just go ahead with your plans and try and enjoy the time with your kids, and not have him watching or in the same area as you.

Your husband is in the anger and resentment stage, so he's not into noticing anything positive about you right now. Just try and become mysterious. Think about how he has not told you where he's going, what he'll be doing, and do the same. He needs a TON of space right now, treat him like a neighbor. Pleasant enough, but not share your personal feelings, or everything that's going on inside of you. You are just starting out, and he sounds hostile. Back off, and get in your own rhythm. Start exercising it can save your sanity, gives you endorphins ( nature's anti-depressant ) will clear your head and release stress, while also allowing you to sleep better! Start reading, and then look for an activity or three to get your mind elsewhere!
Posted By: CRPL

Re: Sandi2's 37 Rules - 09/01/13 05:03 AM

"15. When at home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation---then don't, wait for him/her) then, be rather scarce or with your words, but don't sound rude or too short like you are mad. If your spouse asks what's wrong....just say "nothing" and have a pleasant expression on your face. Keep it short and simple. Don't get into an argument! Stay polite and don’ t act like you are pouting. Use poise and class. This does not mean to act like you aren’t speaking, but don’t be overly talkative.

19. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. This can confuse some of them b/c it is not what they expected. Show your spouse someone he/she would want to be around all the time, somebody that can be attractive and fun to be with. That somebnody is you! Don't overkill in your attempts to outshine another person your spouse may be having an A with (if there is OP in the picture) to the point of looking like your attempts are "fake" b/c your spouse will see through all of that."

Hi everyone. I'm confused as to how these two rules work together. I'm still living with my wife who wants time/ space right now to think about our M. It's not in my personality to be short, we do talk a lot as friends now without any R talk.
Posted By: TryingToDo180

Re: Sandi2's 37 Rules - 09/02/13 05:04 PM

CRPL adapt the rules to work with your sitch. What works with one, will not necessarily work with another sitch, es[especially in your case. Have you got a thread yet on the newcomers page that we can read more about your sitch and comment on where you're up to. A few of us on here still have spouses living at home, but don't want to be there. I can't advise properly as my H doesn't still live at home. Take care smile
Posted By: doug777

Re: Sandi2's 37 Rules - 10/06/13 08:44 PM

Thank You for this - Great Read!
Posted By: WB2014

Re: Sandi2's 37 Rules - 01/05/14 12:02 AM

I'm confused... But I only see 6 rules in the initial post??
Posted By: WB2014

Re: Sandi2's 37 Rules - 01/09/14 11:09 PM

Never mind. I realized it's only like that on my iPad.
Posted By: inafog

Re: Sandi2's 37 Rules - 01/27/14 04:51 PM

I am 3 months into my nightmare. Wife in a MLC at 37, wants fun, career and kids; everything but me. It's bonecrushing sadness. I found Sandi2 rules a few days ago. It's a smart list and makes sense. Problem is, you have to break all of the rules in order to realize they are the rules to follow. In other words, you have to beg, cry, flowers and so on or you will wonder if any of those things might have worked. I wish I had this list 3 months ago as I would have more dignity. But, I have it now and will try and keep trying for the sake of my 3 innocent kids. Oh if I could only wind the clock back 6 months. Now, I have to try to get her love back while she doesnt give a hoot and frankly I love her less as well.
Posted By: TL72*

Re: Sandi2's 37 Rules - 02/14/14 05:29 PM

inafog: I found the list after I did a lot of the things on it too. Now I wish I had not done those things (sent flowers, broke my heart when i found he had just shoved them in a cold truck to die) bought a few other heartfelt gifts and pursued him. I was following another marriage help site that suggested doing that but I do think it pushed him away further so now I'm doing the 180, not calling, not texting, not emailing unless it is something needed, we have a normal home relationship until he moves out. I'm being kind but detaching, letting him see that I am getting a life of my own. I have found that this forum has helped a lot and I also found my spirituality again. Praying has helped my inner strength tremendously. It is a roller coaster ride. I am only a month in and often thought that I wish I had the last 6 months to KNOW about it so that I could have made changes then. I just had no idea. We can't change the past so we must focus on our futures with or without them. I feel the same way you mentioned about her not giving a hoot. My H will say "are you ok?" once in awhile and I say "i'm fine" and try to appear happy all the time, but what i'm really thinking is "how the hell can you ask me if i'm ok? I"m NOT effing ok!" excuse my language but that's what is in my head when he asks. Hang in there, read these boards and post often, we can help each other, there's many people on here going through similar things.
Posted By: leaving

Re: Sandi2's 37 Rules - 02/18/14 04:04 AM

I have a questioN? My W found Sandies list that I copied and put it in my documents on the laptop. My W confronted me when she came home from counseling and said she knew what I was doing. I was a bit confused and asked what she ment, she said your playing a game and using a guide to try get things better I found it on the computer. I told her this is not a game and I'm doing this to make me a better person. W tells me why now are you doing this, I said I need to be a better person. She tells me she is angry that I'm doing this now. I validate her feelings and let her do most of the talking. She starts to cry. I hold her in ny arms hugging her. I'm being a friend and just listening to her. She tells me you told me before you would change and it didn't happen why should I believe you now. I validate her feelings by saying I can see why you would think that and I apologize for what I have done. she begans to cry some more and I hold her again. She does allow me to hold her, she leaned into me. I did ramble on. My question is she now knows the rules by sandie. Does this hurt me her knowing.
Posted By: TL72*

Re: Sandi2's 37 Rules - 02/18/14 04:21 PM

I don't think it hurts anything, just keep following them. You're right, it's not a game. You're doing what you have to do to try and change and reconcile. It's a support group, there's nothing wrong with you needing/seeking support for what you're going through.
Posted By: leaving

Re: Sandi2's 37 Rules - 02/18/14 08:03 PM

TL72, how are things with you? One thing I will have to stress is I'm doing this for me. If we reconcile then that would be FANTASTIC! I don't wan't you to think I don't Love my W, because I do and I have pain. I do know praying and going to church is going to make a huge diffrence for me and it already has. I'm definetly waiting for the D papers to come in the mail.

If anyone can answer me this, W got a new cell phone and nuber on 2/13/14 and still hasn't given me the number. The times she does call me its from the kids cell phones, my D or her S.

W and I use to text and call one another everyday just to check in and see how are day is going. This stopped on 2/13/14 new cell phone and she told me she filed for D then. I'm not sure if there is OM or not. I can find out but whats the point just cause me to sink deeper, its out of my control.
Posted By: TL72*

Re: Sandi2's 37 Rules - 02/21/14 02:55 PM

It is out of your control. All you do is focus on yourself at this point. Take care of you, make changes in you. This is what she feels she must do to heal. My D will be final in April. He's moving out tomorrow. He didn't even tell me he was moving out, I just saw things were missing so I finally asked. I was trying to just detach and not ask any questions but the wondering was killing me and I figured I had a right to know. It felt like relief when he said yes. I don't want him to leave but I did not say anything like that. I just said "ok" and then helped him separate some of his things out. This is just something he has to do in order to get through this part. I still think he's in MLC and he's either got a furnished apartment or he's moving in with someone else. I asked no questions other than if he was taking this or that. I'm acting as if it is all ok and staying positive. I want to have hope for reconciliation but I know he has to move out first and see what it's like. I'm hoping he will eventually have a change of heart. This really [censored]. Just have to keep on living.
Posted By: LitFuse

Re: Sandi2's 37 Rules - 03/07/14 01:16 PM

I'm having a very hard time following these rules. I feel like it just gives my husband exactly what he wants. All he wants is me to shut up and us to not discuss his issues or him to be accountable in any way at all. It makes me angry. I want him to grow up and be accountable. I don't understand how this aids that at all, even though I know it's pretty much the only hope to ride it out until he gets over himself. :-( Anyone else having this problem?
Posted By: bjudge

Re: Sandi2's 37 Rules - 03/08/14 02:42 AM

I am struggling with this list as well....it feels like following some of the items on the list will cause my W to detach even more.
Posted By: unbidden

Re: Sandi2's 37 Rules - 03/09/14 02:42 PM

Question, has your ways of talking and trying to hold him accountable worked? DB is counterintuitive and it tends to take the R out of the predictable patterns that haven't worked.
Posted By: paul19510

Re: Sandi2's 37 Rules - 03/09/14 03:43 PM

Originally Posted By: LitFuse
I'm having a very hard time following these rules. I feel like it just gives my husband exactly what he wants. All he wants is me to shut up and us to not discuss his issues or him to be accountable in any way at all. It makes me angry. I want him to grow up and be accountable. I don't understand how this aids that at all, even though I know it's pretty much the only hope to ride it out until he gets over himself. :-( Anyone else having this problem?


Hi Lit, its hard to have patience with this. It seems you are new here. One quick thing that jumps off the page at me is your signature. its hard not to mind read. but mind reading (trust me most of us here do it/have done it and its not helpful) is harmful to you and the process overall. The last line of your signature says: 'H doesn't want a divorce, but would prefer we live our entire marriage by the "37 rules." '

Did your H specifically tell you he knows the 37 rules and that's what he wants? if he didn't, you're not helping yourself by thinking that way.

I'm not saying this to be a downer. Only trying to give you a place to start. Read the 37 rules every day and go out and GAL.

Like Cadet says to most people when they come here: "Your spouse has given you the gift of time, use it wisely..."

keep reading and posting. it helps. Hopefully you will find as many of us have, that this process is really more about saving YOURSELF than saving your M

There are many here who have suffered and still come out of it better. Maybe not married, but better. good luck.
Posted By: bjudge

Re: Sandi2's 37 Rules - 03/10/14 05:10 PM

Originally Posted By: unbidden
Question, has your ways of talking and trying to hold him accountable worked? DB is counterintuitive and it tends to take the R out of the predictable patterns that haven't worked.


With talking no, but how is it fair to me to not hold my W accountable for her actions? Do you put the accountability on the back burner in the infancy stages of BD?
Posted By: Upwards

Re: Sandi2's 37 Rules - 03/13/14 02:14 PM

Question - every time I attempt NC my H contacts me regularly as we have a business together & 2 children, do I answer sometimes and be "unavailable" sometimes or do I completely ignore his calls? When I've completely cut him off in the past its then led to animosity when we do see each other, not sure what to do for the best as we cant have completely NC because of children/business.
Posted By: Roberta

Re: Sandi2's 37 Rules - 03/14/14 06:22 PM

Having no contact with a spouse when work and children are involved is tricky and often impossible. Many people contact our divorce busting coaches for help with this issue. Not only will a DB coach give you proven suggestions for productive conversation, you will also get the support you need to move forward in a positive direction.
Call me to discuss our coaching program 303-444-7004
Posted By: Upwards

Re: Sandi2's 37 Rules - 03/17/14 10:14 PM

Originally Posted By: Roberta
Having no contact with a spouse when work and children are involved is tricky and often impossible. Many people contact our divorce busting coaches for help with this issue. Not only will a DB coach give you proven suggestions for productive conversation, you will also get the support you need to move forward in a positive direction.
Call me to discuss our coaching program 303-444-7004


Thank you, I wish I was in a position to be able to pay for a DB coach but i'm not frown
Posted By: 25yearsmlc

Re: Sandi2's 37 Rules - 03/17/14 10:50 PM

You may have answered your own question

Originally Posted By: Upwards
Question - every time I attempt NC my H contacts me regularly as we have a business together & 2 children, do I answer sometimes and be "unavailable" sometimes or do I completely ignore his calls? When I've completely cut him off in the past its then led to animosity when we do see each other, not sure what to do for the best as we cant have completely NC because of children/business.


So, have contact only about the children or business. Don't engage about other topics, and you need not be rude about that. Simply do not respond to those parts of his texts.

Only answer re: the kids or business. The rest? Either save it for the lawyers, ignore it totally, or tell him you're not prepared to discuss that "at this time". Maybe even ask "what's to discuss?"

His goals are plain enough for now, are they not?

There is no hassle free way to do it, no painless way thru this. But you can minimize your personal pain to an extent.
Posted By: Upwards

Re: Sandi2's 37 Rules - 03/18/14 03:40 PM

Originally Posted By: 25yearsmlc
So, have contact only about the children or business. Don't engage about other topics, and you need not be rude about that. Simply do not respond to those parts of his texts.

Only answer re: the kids or business. The rest? Either save it for the lawyers, ignore it totally, or tell him you're not prepared to discuss that "at this time". Maybe even ask "what's to discuss?"

His goals are plain enough for now, are they not?

There is no hassle free way to do it, no painless way thru this. But you can minimize your personal pain to an extent.


His goals are unclear at the moment to be honest, he wants to "be friends and see what happens" whilst we both work on ourselves but i've said i'm unwilling to do that whilst he's still in contact with the woman he slept with... i've left that with him.

I also struggle when he wants to talk about our sitch, do I just not talk about it or do I allow him to open up?

Thanks for your input 25yearsmlc.
Posted By: 25yearsmlc

Re: Sandi2's 37 Rules - 03/18/14 07:54 PM

you're unwilling to do what, work on yourself or be friends while he is with OW?

Your own work is yours to do, regardless of what he thinks/feels/says/does.

I'd be upbeat, hopeful but expecting the worst. And I'd move forward. Your h knows how to court you and to try and win you back IF THAT DAY COMES,

but it won't if he thinks you are waiting

OR if he believes you are never going to forgive him for OW.

So, you can start swimming to the other shore now, without looking over your shoulders the whole time. When you get to the other side (GAL along the way) you will find your life vastly improved, with or without him.

IF he had died, and the grief had mostly passed, what would you do? Lie down in the fetal position and never get up again? Imagine for jet 3 minutes, your life without him, but with you being happy.

What does it look like? Would you do ANY new hobbies or take classes or move or get a different job? DETAIL this vision...flesh it out.

And now, see if there are any things in this list^^ that you can begin to do, today...

BE the better choice and don't look or ponder OW. That's beneath you if you are becoming your best self, which is your job/responsibilty.

Good luck
Posted By: Upwards

Re: Sandi2's 37 Rules - 03/18/14 08:47 PM

I'm unwilling to "be friends and see what happens" whilst he's in contact with the OW.

I'm absolutely working on myself & moving forwards, there is probably a lot more I could do though so will have a think what else I can do for me. I'm beginning to feel much better (most days) in myself and more positive about my future regardless of my marriage, I'm working on finding myself & it feels good to be slowly feeling more like me again. My H has also noticed and said "he likes who I'm becoming" which is of course a bonus smile

Thanks for the advice, makes a lot of sense & has given me some things to think about.
Posted By: ye21

Re: Sandi2's 37 Rules - 03/18/14 11:06 PM

Well this is a complicated one but its a very important one...should we be friends or not?
There is a fine line here and we have to be carefull with how we deal with this...could I have a sip of wine while I am in rehab? IMO I see this as we can only do what it feels less painful for us at certain point, if you are not ready to be friends with him just yet....well listen to your needs, you dont have to do it if you consider that you are not ready yet, this is a proccess and its important to accept how we feel at each time...now what he means by friends? It might mean he scare of not knowing what he wants yet and not having you as a friend means he is not going to have you there if he changes his mind....

The important point here is that we dont know what he feels exactly and thinks and since we dont have clarity just be with yourself and patiently the time will give you responses....there is no right or wrong thing to do, there is only you and protect yourself... There is no system to bring them back....just breath and take one day at a time..
Posted By: 25yearsmlc

Re: Sandi2's 37 Rules - 03/19/14 02:48 AM

Originally Posted By: Upwards
I'm unwilling to "be friends and see what happens" whilst he's in contact with the OW.

Must you tell him ^^this? If so, Why?

Chances are It will sound punitive to him. I know you want to protect yourself but that does not require informing him of your new label. The more you challenge his choices, the more you force him to defend them. Your belief, perhaps, is that you'd be "rewarding" him by not cutting him off. OR he'd be cake eating. But you can keep that cake eating from happening without telling him "you're NOT my friend"...

You are co-parents. It's clearly in the children's interests to behave civilly. Be civil at all times.

Let me repeat that for emphasis, be civil to him at all times. If there is an affront to you, and it is important, then LEAVE. There is no advantage to you in losing your head, no matter what the provocation.

Believe me, I've envisioned many scenarios in which I could "Justify" losing my head. Many...But never have I imagined one in which I benefit... It's just always in OUR interests to maintain our dignity and honor.


I'm absolutely working on myself & moving forwards, there is probably a lot more I could do though so will have a think what else I can do for me.


I'm going to share some ideas with you that helped me. I GAL big time, even in the winter, while we lived in the interior of Alaska, near a small "city". It was not easy or convenient. Neither is divorce or being a single mom forever.

Oh, I had 3 kids including a baby (so you know I get how it's a hassle. But divorce is a bigger hassle.) These are things I did over a 2 year period and they are just that; things I did. But a lot of these things were new to me, fyi.

I was in a place where I knew no one b/c we moved when I was 8 months pregnant with our 3rd child.
Frankly, it was the hardest I have ever worked to just feel alright. But honestly I did feel happy, in time.

The lack of sunlight DID bother me, but it's uniquely hard there, and I took some meds for it in the winter.

Just fyi. Okay here we go and yes I did all of these things and more that I have forgotten.

I volunteered at a battered women's shelter. Ended up on the Bd of Directors.

I coached a girl's softball team, two summers (my older D was on it).

I was on the board of directors for Wrestling, (b/c our son wrestled).

I auditioned for community theater and met some fun creative people. I got cast, too. Often and the reviews were quite favorable.

I did stand up comedy (and yes, I still do it). In fact, I did a whole set once on a MLCs at the Improv in Hollywood. It went very well. (H has still not seen that video)

I learned to cross country ski, became a better shooter.

I Learned to hunt big game, to deep sea fish & I got better at downhill skiing.

I learned to use a snowmobile (aka a "snow machine" to Alaskans)
I loved riding it and it got me outside in the remaining daylight minutes when the older kids got home.

Sometimes the sun would set at 3:30 and I'd rush out before all light was gone, just to get some fresh air outside. For me, the daylight exposure was a big deal.

Learned to fly an airplane, and I got a pilot's license. Very cool, intense.

I was asked to edit a book, which I did. (The book ended up on the Best Seller's List in its' genre. Who knew?)

I Worked out 4-5 times a week, and I really did get in excellent shape.

Looking good made a world of difference to me. Improved my h's views it seemed.

(Plus I'd just had our last child, and needed to lose the baby weight. It was not easy to do, let alone in the dark, deathly cold LONG winters. But really what choice did I have?)

In the winter, I used a tanning booth, which helped me a lot with some mild to moderate depression. I felt more energized, and it probably helped my appearance, which also helps us FEEL better.

Saw a therapist, and for some months, went on ADs.

Took a pottery class (very odd for me to do, but I liked it a lot & still have my cups and vases and fruit bowl).

Joined the Officer's Wives club, after 15 years of active duty.

(Wish I had joined sooner! Met 2 women who are life long friends.)

Joined a writer's group
Took a class in Conversational French
Took a class in Italian cooking

Except for pilot training, these ^^ activities were free, or quite cheap.

Leaving the house and doing ANY of these things requires overcoming inertia. Sometimes that is the main obstacle....inertia.

Fear and Inertia are the greatest enemies to GAL.

I think those who continue NOT really GAL, if they were honest with themselves and dug deep within,

they'd see that some of their marital issues, lay in their having a RUT in the marriage. And getting out of our ruts, matters. The more you change and GAL the more other changes will come more naturally.

Make sense? These are new behaviors you are learning. Laying new tracks in our brains takes consistency and effort and being "mindful".

I'm beginning to feel much better (most days) in myself and more positive about my future regardless of my marriage,

Good^^, b/c that is KEY to being an appealing person one wants to be around. Not "needing" someone else to "make us happy". B/C of course WE are happy. We're good folks here, loving, funny, smart, kind, into our children, interested and interesting, etc...

Becoming our best selves is a journey we're all supposed to be making. We just tend to forget.


I'm working on finding myself & it feels good to be slowly feeling more like me again. My H has also noticed and said "he likes who I'm becoming" which is of course a bonus smile

Very nice to hear. Make sure he knows your changes are really just "getting back to YOU" and that you are happy to be returning to yourself as well, not b/c of him or FOR him, but for you...make sense?


Thanks for the advice, makes a lot of sense & has given me some things to think about.


Good luck, I hope you know you really will be more than alright, regardless of his choices.

Flesh out that vision of life without him, but with you being happy.

Can you tell us any of what that would look like?
Posted By: Upwards

Re: Sandi2's 37 Rules - 03/19/14 09:46 AM

Originally Posted By: 25yearsmlc
Chances are It will sound punitive to him. I know you want to protect yourself but that does not require informing him of your new label. The more you challenge his choices, the more you force him to defend them. Your belief, perhaps, is that you'd be "rewarding" him by not cutting him off. OR he'd be cake eating. But you can keep that cake eating from happening without telling him "you're NOT my friend"...


When we talked a few nights ago he asked could we "be friends and see what happens" and also agreed to spending a little time together as friends - I felt that this would be allowing him to just keep me as a 'Plan B' and keep the other girl as well, it didn't feel like it gives an intuitive to move towards the marriage and also I feel that doing that would only hurt me because his attention would be elsewhere?

I told him that I wasnt happy to do that and he agreed that it wouldnt be fair to expect me to, he then said he had some decision to make and that he "needs to find some strength to do whats right" and left it at that. I havent brought it up or mentioned it since.

He's said that the OW is nothing serious, as i'm aware they only see each other every couple of weeks and its mainly phone/text and emotional stuff I suppose. He's said it would never be a long term thing, he could just be saying this to me I suppose but I think I believe him.

Quote:
Let me repeat that for emphasis, be civil to him at all times.

We are always really civil and get on really well, we rarely argue (now) and we're both learning how to avoid conflict and how to disagree in better ways - its working well so far. That's the crazy thing we get on so well even whilst separated, we have a very deep connection.

Quote:
I'm going to share some ideas with you that helped me. I GAL big time, even in the winter, while we lived in the interior of Alaska, near a small "city". It was not easy or convenient. Neither is divorce or being a single mom forever.

Wow you did so much!!! I have a health condition (fibromyalgia) which impacts on my mobility and energy levels so I struggle with anything physical but I'm trying to do as much as I possibly can and trying to push my boundaries and do some things I've never done before.

I've been seeing friends/family more, socialising, cinema, bowling etc. I'm joining the gym & going swimming. Tanning, nails done, pampering myself. I've been looking into doing some voluntary work again. Joined Al-Anon for help with recovering from codependency. Seeing a therapist & have signed up for some self-esteem & confidence courses.

I'm going to have a think what else i've always wanted to do or thing I can do that I wouldnt normally!

Quote:
Very nice to hear. Make sure he knows your changes are really just "getting back to YOU" and that you are happy to be returning to yourself as well, not b/c of him or FOR him, but for you...make sense?

Yes he knows its for me and only me, he made the comment after I said I was beginning to feel like myself again smile It surprised me as I didnt think he'd noticed that much to be honest but he clearly has! I'm in this rut as a result of his addictions and how it affected our family, he has a lot of guilt around that and I think that's a big barrier he has between us at the moment as he cant move on from that guilt.

Quote:
Flesh out that vision of life without him, [i]but with you being happy. Can you tell us any of what that would look like?


That's one thing i'm unable to do at the moment, I can envisage my life without him in it... I know that me & the kids will be ok and I know that I will be happy in time, I just cant picture it right now.
Posted By: Upwards

Re: Sandi2's 37 Rules - 03/19/14 10:05 PM

I've decided to cut contact, i've posted on my thread here:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2439396#Post2439396
Posted By: claire7

Re: Sandi2's 37 Rules - 03/24/14 04:44 PM

I totally hear you! I made all the mistakes I could possibly make. What's done is done. I'm just trying to move forward. Trying to keep in mind that the only thing I can control is myself. I still have so much hurt and anger--he is a stupid fool-- but if this becomes divorce my goal is to truly be the kind of person that everyone would agree only a stupid fool would leave.
Posted By: Upwards

Re: Sandi2's 37 Rules - 03/25/14 05:51 PM

Originally Posted By: claire7
I totally hear you! I made all the mistakes I could possibly make. What's done is done. I'm just trying to move forward. Trying to keep in mind that the only thing I can control is myself. I still have so much hurt and anger--he is a stupid fool-- but if this becomes divorce my goal is to truly be the kind of person that everyone would agree only a stupid fool would leave.



Sounds like an excellent plan Claire! You can only control YOU, what your H does is his responsibility, so work on bettering yourself and you are a winner either way smile
Posted By: gogofo

Re: Sandi2's 37 Rules - 03/26/14 01:46 AM

6. Do not ask for help from family members or friends. Don't discuss private matters with them that would upset your spouse.

12. Act "as if" you are moving on with your life with or without them and that you are going to be okay. Keep a good attitude.


I need some clarification and opinions on these two rules above.

I have been working on myself and one of my 180s is to appreciate and think more about friends and family, mine and the in-laws. I was selfish and self centered and this is something I don't like about myself and want to change.

The wife and I are separated, but I still have had contact with the in-laws. I have never asked them for help and we don't talk about the W or our situation. When they ask how I am I simply reply good. What we do is just catch up about work and what we have been up to or whatever, but never the situation or W.

The W has been getting upset about this. On Feb. 15th I delivered some homemade sausage to the MIL and FIL and we ended up talking for a while. The MIL failed to tell me or the W that either of us were going to cross paths that night or I would have left.

W gets upset and thinks I am playing games and trying to turn her parents against her. I tell her I dropped off sausage and we started talking and I had no idea she was there or I would have left before she arrived. Told her it had nothing to do with her and I left. Later she sent a text message that she was okay with me visiting as long as my intention was just to talk to them and not try manipulation or whatever. Manipulation was never my intention, I just missed her parents and wanted to give them sausage and catch up with each other.

Last Sunday I delivered two birthday cards to my SIL's house for two of my nieces. I did not stop or talk to anyone, but I probably would have for a little bit if they were awake. The W calls yesterday, upset, and asks if we have anything to talk about. She was upset because I dropped off birthday cards. We sent text messages back and forth and she feels that I am trying to mess with her and only doing this to manipulate her. I tell her I just wanted to give them a birthday present.

There is also a package to mutual friends who had a baby, friends that were hers before we met. I am sure when she hears I did this she will be upset again.

My intentions were not to manipulate her or mess with her. I tried to do these things without telling her as they were things I wanted to do. Are these actions from me in violation of rule 6? I am trying to live suggested in rule 12 and get on with me and my life and working on who I want to be.

I have had suggestions in my thread about stopping contact with her family because that it what she wants. I feel that is something she will have to work through because my contact with them has never been about her or our relationship. If my actions do not match her perception of me, I cannot help that, but I don't think I should stop because she thinks I hate her family.
Posted By: Upwards

Re: Sandi2's 37 Rules - 03/26/14 02:40 PM

I think number 6 specifically refers to getting family/friends to help persuade/talk to your spouse with a view to changing their mind or challenging their decisions, I don't think it relates to general contact from what I can gather.

Personally I would try to come to a compromise - talk to her and find out why she feels so threatened by you having contact with them, make sure you listen and hear what she has to say about the situation. Then explain where your coming from, tell her that they have been a part of your life for many years and you would like to stay in contact with them and that you have no intention of causing any problems or discussing the situation between the two of you.

See where it goes from there. Its a difficult one as she will see them as HER family/friends but they are part of you life also, if she is really upset about it then maybe you could agree to less contact as a compromise?
Posted By: gogofo

Re: Sandi2's 37 Rules - 03/26/14 02:47 PM

Thanks Upwards, the contact isn't daily or weekly, but maybe once a month. I know she doesn't know how often we do or don't talk, but any contact at all might be too much for her.

The talk seems like a good idea and I will probably do it if or when the opportunity arises.
Posted By: 25yearsmlc

Re: Sandi2's 37 Rules - 03/29/14 11:01 PM

if you did not talk about W to her family members, there is simply NO issue. If she says "ah, but now you are behaving differently!!",

you can concede that it was a change YOU WANT to make and you're glad of it b/c those folks mean a lot to you. They are part of your life and as grandparents, always will be...there's no "manipulation" in you being more considerate. It's called self improvement and you're working on it. Period...she ought to be happy for you (and in a healthy moment, she might be)...

But don't cut them off. IT's unfair to them, and if you are truly NOT discussing your w, then it should not matter. Don't let her fears control YOUR actions.

But make darn sure you are not talking about her to them...

as
for the awakening on your end, I don't see how this relates. I mean, does it?

Also see the TED videos by Shawn Achor and Amy Cuddy about "Faking it til you BECOME It", and "Positive Psychology"....they're not long but they are profound.
Posted By: gogofo

Re: Sandi2's 37 Rules - 03/30/14 05:11 AM

Thanks 25, you stated clearer what I was thinking and feeling about my contact with her family. I do care about them and we do not discuss the situation.

Last Thursday the W and I had another talk in which she said she misses my family. I figured she did and I know they miss her. We have not been hostile to each other and probably have as healthy of a R you can have while separated.

I saw a reference to both TED talks in another thread and watched them a month ago. Very inspiring, both of them. I immediately bought Shawn's book "The Happiness Advantage" and have been working some of his systems for 30 days straight since I finished the book. His book has had a profound effect on me and the way I look at my life. I think it is a must read and for me helped me move farther along with myself. I have never felt this much internal happiness.
Posted By: rednet

Re: Sandi2's 37 Rules - 04/06/14 07:44 PM

I wish I had seen these weeks ago, but I have started today. My gut has already told me its too late but my feeling still betray me. Thanks for this wonderful advice but its late, I have already screwed up on a bunch of these. Still I start today!
Posted By: rednet

Re: Sandi2's 37 Rules - 04/06/14 08:08 PM

I thought I had posted on this. I have made so many of these mistakes over the last few weeks but starting today I am done. Although I really do want to save my marriage I think these things will help either way. Thanks so much.
Posted By: FL3Boys

Re: Sandi2's 37 Rules - 04/09/14 11:57 AM

My wife told me in December that she was unhappy, and didn’t think our marriage would last until Christmas a year later. Things have gradually gotten worse, and she is moving out June 1.

I have begun implementing the 7-step process, or, more accurately, the “last resort” step. I'm following Sandi2's 37 rules.

I am making serious changes. I have lost nearly 40 pounds since December (I was 6’ tall, and 257 lbs, I am now 218 lbs). I exercise regularly and and trying to stay positive and “light hearted” at all times when around my wife.

I have stopped “chasing” her, looking pathetic, and saying “I love you” only to hear nothing, or “I know”.

My biggest problem is that when I am near her, I am SO COMPLETELY attracted to her. She’s the one woman in my life who just “does it for me”. Always has. We are both in our early forties, and she is extremely fit and beautiful.

It’s the knowledge that I may never again have her that sends me careening into depression.

I’m okay if I stay at work, or exercise, or am not around her, but when I see her in the morning, or at dinner, or anytime, I just want to touch her.

Any suggestions on what to do when this gnawing, aching feeling persists?

How can I overcome it?
Posted By: rednet

Re: Sandi2's 37 Rules - 04/10/14 05:04 PM

Gonna give the happiness advantage a read, thanks for the tip.
Posted By: rednet

Re: Sandi2's 37 Rules - 04/13/14 12:16 AM

This week I stopped initiating contact since I was the only one doing it but as I have been reading DB it seems counter intuitive, feeling kinda lost since before I cut contact we seem to be having some decent interaction, what to do?
Posted By: Oxford1

Re: Sandi2's 37 Rules - 04/20/14 10:23 AM

I have a unique and challenging issue. My wife's had left the home and lived with OM for ten weeks. We went through ups and downs of communication. I would go dark and she would text me over and over, a few times she would email me we are done and proceeding to divorce.

Recently we ended up at both the Collaborative divorce coach and financial planner. Our finances are a mess. The collaborative coach drew up boundaries
She moved back in on Thursday night, we had no contact until Saturday.

The issue is she is continuing her affair, I get the ilybnily speech on and off and she cries a lot.

Yesterday we did a lot together, the gym, took a walk,mate dinners during the walk we had a lay it on the line get it off my chest, it eventually lead to what I saw as the issues with OM.

Then at home Little bit aboutt her she with him.

Last night we watches tv together and sat in the same bed. When she fell to sleep I went to my room.

I am confused, because I saw a video where Michele says to ignore the affair ,they last two years etc.

But remember she ran away even went to his country,now she's home..

I switched from some of the other boards where they wanted me to throw her under the bus.

I so have two threads ( one closed) on here.

I read DR.

I am just trying to wrap my head around the best way to handle this in home thing and be that husband no woman would want to leave, but she's still in her relationship, and thinks eventually we will divorce and she will go off with him..
Posted By: unbidden

Re: Sandi2's 37 Rules - 04/23/14 07:06 PM

You've asked this same question many, many times in several different topics but you are still resistant to taking advice. Lots of folks here are dealing with affairs and a spouse who is still in the same house. It's time to stop asking and start doing.
Posted By: Italian

Re: Sandi2's 37 Rules - 05/07/14 08:36 PM

Excellent rules! I'll be treasuring them smile
Posted By: LBSinTX

Re: Sandi2's 37 Rules - 05/22/14 12:49 PM

Pure gold! Trying to live by them.
Posted By: ItHurts

Re: Sandi2's 37 Rules - 05/30/14 04:48 AM

May I ask why #36 is on here? Doesn't GAL involve socializing with friends in bars to some people? This rule confuses me. What problem could arise. Also, do these rules apply to a WAW that isn't in the same residence with whom we are in strict NC with?
Posted By: MrBond

Re: Sandi2's 37 Rules - 05/30/14 05:21 AM

ItHurts,

Have you actually read DB or DR?
Posted By: rayzzz

Re: Sandi2's 37 Rules - 05/31/14 04:36 AM

Hey should "don't give your spouse too many compliments" be the same as #11 "dont tell your spouse I love you"?

I am just judging by my nasty cold reactions that I should shut the heck up when she looks so incredibly beautiful to me.

Rookie mistake on my part so now I am saying nothing and learning to wipe that stupid grin off my face when I see her. Women!
Posted By: Grey

Re: Sandi2's 37 Rules - 06/03/14 04:08 PM

Originally Posted By: rayzzz
Hey should "don't give your spouse too many compliments" be the same as #11 "dont tell your spouse I love you"?

I am just judging by my nasty cold reactions that I should shut the heck up when she looks so incredibly beautiful to me.

Rookie mistake on my part so now I am saying nothing and learning to wipe that stupid grin off my face when I see her. Women!


Yeah, this is the sort of stuff I don't get.


My wife needs me to touch her, to kiss her goodnight, hold her hand, hug her. But I can't tell what the balance is now.

It used to be romantic (and is still what ALL her friends see when I do anything like that in public, they get vocally jealous), but now it's perceived as clingy?

I can be patient with my wife. I can stop being honest about how I feel, telling her she's pretty, buying her jewelry and flowers. I can't stop cooking for her or she won't eat, so how do I approach that? I can't sleep in another room because she hates that, so what do I do there?

And how long do I wait? My wife is not having an affair. She's just gone distant when I brought up how hurt I was and tried to communicate that we're in a sexless marriage after being married for 7 months and the sex was great and once or even twice a week before marriage.


How do I find the balance between looking like I'm ignoring her (which essentially I am, I just can't have her think that?) and otherwise just living my life without needing her in it?
Posted By: Spiff

Re: Sandi2's 37 Rules - 06/06/14 01:19 PM

My story so far:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=55669&Number=2457428

I'm trying to 180/GAL/Sandi's 37 rules, but seem very counter intuitive. WW is thinking about leaving for OM. I feel like my GAL will make her more comfortable with leaving and convince her that I didn't want to stay with her anyway. However, I had pretty much sucked up to her since DDay in April.

I am doing the 180, but have questions:

1> I text my wife during the day informing her where I might stop on the way home from work and if she needs anything. I do a significant amount of the shopping and abruptly stopping that seem more like "d**k move". Is this OK?

2> If my wife is watching TV, I will go in be in the same room, but not necessarily watch too. One attraction for her to OM is how easy conversation comes to them. If I withdraw too much, I'm just underscoring the difference between OM and me. Thoughts?
Posted By: Timmy76

Re: Sandi2's 37 Rules - 06/10/14 04:39 PM

Ok, so not to sound stupid, but what are these rules supposed to accomplish? This is all new to me. Since I'm reading these 37 rules and have failed on a large number of them to this point (especially #18), now what do I do? Help please?
Posted By: Mat

Re: Sandi2's 37 Rules - 06/10/14 09:38 PM

This list is SO helpful. My W walked away very recently; when she asks me how I am, what help am I getting (I have no reason to believe her concern is anything other than genuine), how do I deliver point 19, and to a lesser extent 17 and 30? I cannot lie and say I'm not bothered if she ever comes back or not, it's not going to come across as genuine. And saying "I feel fantastic!!" 2 days after she walked out and saw my tears makes absolutely no sense! I suppose I'm wondering if there's a grace period or a time frame element to these?

At the same time I am scared she will want to move swiftly to D before I've had time to shine...

No prizes for guessing I'm a newbie here smile
Posted By: Roberta

Re: Sandi2's 37 Rules - 06/11/14 06:24 PM

I am sorry that you find yourself on this site. But, the best news is that we are here with answers for you. The concerns you have are real and the next moves you make are crucial to saving your marriage. I strongly urge you to make an appointment with a Divorce Busting Coach. Our coaches are trained to not only answer your questions, but to give you personal and professional advice on what to do to next. Learn how to get your marriage back on track. Call me today to discuss our program- 303-444-7004.
Posted By: Starsky309

Re: Sandi2's 37 Rules - 06/11/14 06:30 PM

Originally Posted By: Mat
how do I deliver point 19, and to a lesser extent 17 and 30? I cannot lie and say I'm not bothered if she ever comes back or not, it's not going to come across as genuine. And saying "I feel fantastic!!" 2 days after she walked out and saw my tears makes absolutely no sense!


Mat, try saying something along the lines of "Well, I've been doing a lot of thinking, and while this is NOT what I would have wished upon anyone, I have come to the realization that I WILL BE OKAY no matter what happens. I still don't want a divorce, but for now there are some things I want to work on, just for myself."

Be a little mysterious, and no, not over-the-top HAPPY or anything, but . . . just "I'll be okay."

Make sense?


Starsky
Posted By: Mat

Re: Sandi2's 37 Rules - 06/11/14 10:42 PM

Originally Posted By: Starsky309


Mat, try saying something along the lines of "Well, I've been doing a lot of thinking, and while this is NOT what I would have wished upon anyone, I have come to the realization that I WILL BE OKAY no matter what happens. I still don't want a divorce, but for now there are some things I want to work on, just for myself."

Be a little mysterious, and no, not over-the-top HAPPY or anything, but . . . just "I'll be okay."

Make sense?


Starsky


Thanks starsky it does make sense. I just finished DR, and read the last resort pages so it's all coming together albeit slowly.
Posted By: Cadet

Re: Sandi2's 37 Rules - 06/12/14 05:54 PM

Validation: Cheat Sheet

Above is a link for a great thread by Wonka to check out
Posted By: Mat

Re: Sandi2's 37 Rules - 06/12/14 07:50 PM

Thanks - I am going back through the LRT pages in DR, and it's not obvious to me where validation stands wrt LRT? It sounds like good advice at all times, am I correct?

Another question I have for you and Starsky (and anyone else). My WAF plays the concerned card a lot, and asks questions about who I'm talking to and the sort of advice I'm getting. Now that was only from one convo; it could be that it's because I mentioned I was talking to people. But in these cases, is it going beyond LRT to say that it's none of her business, or is it perfectly within the rules?
Posted By: Starsky309

Re: Sandi2's 37 Rules - 06/12/14 07:57 PM

Mat, I don't think you're under any obligation to tell her to whom you're turning for advice and support. I would stay mysterious, and say something vague like "At times like these, you really learn who your friends are," or "I'm doing what I need to do in order to get some advice and support from a few close people I trust," and leave it at that.

She has walked away from you. You need to let her put on her BGPs.


Starsky
Posted By: Icedtea

Re: Sandi2's 37 Rules - 06/24/14 06:06 PM

I love these rules! They really help me stay focused. While I want H back, I know that all of my changes are for me!

After only a week, he has started mentioning them and saying he is scared it is all for him. I thank him for the compliment but mention that it is for me and my happiness. I want to have a great relationship with myself and the kids.

His BD was a wake up call that I haven't been happy with myself for a while, but I need to make changes for me and the kids. I want my marriage, but I feel like changes will work if I do it for us and not for him.

It has been a sad time, but I have also felt like I have been closer to my kids.
Posted By: BigMac

Re: Sandi2's 37 Rules - 06/30/14 02:23 PM

Wow, I'm so glad I found these. I was doing everything wrong.
Posted By: Meghan

Re: Sandi2's 37 Rules - 07/09/14 12:22 PM

Maybe I missed it elsewhere, but I've looked and can't find the answer.

How do the rules and DBing in general fit in the context of marriage counseling?

We're in counseling, and my main concerns are that I tend to cry because things get really emotional with the pointed questions.

On top of that, we're supposed to be talking about our relationship in detail and from both sides. It's especially hard to successfully do things like validating H.'s experiences of resentment and his issues when I'm being asked to talk about my points, too.

Is it possible to both follow the rules and to go through marriage counseling together?
Posted By: Gotan74

Re: Sandi2's 37 Rules - 07/16/14 10:02 PM

I have a question about going dark. If my wife felt alone in the family should I do this if she seems to want to spend time with me and the kids.?
Posted By: mindsin

Re: Sandi2's 37 Rules - 07/18/14 08:10 PM

The hardest one is the no pursuing/chasing/begging rule. I've broken that several times unfortunately.
Posted By: sandi2

Re: Sandi2's 37 Rules - 07/21/14 06:44 PM

Quote:
How do the rules and DBing in general fit in the context of marriage counseling?


They don't fit at all with some MC! And sometimes, it can cause confusion for you, not knowing which way to go.

From what I have seen on the board, if there is a WAS (and especially one in an A) MC is not very helpful in bringing the couple together. Mainly due to the WAS not wanting to work on the R. However, I do believe a MC who is solution based (and familiar with MWD's material)could give support to the LBS. But don't attend as a couple, b/c you will face resistance from the WAS.

I do believe once the couple has moved into piecing the M back together again, they certainly need a good solution-based C to help guide them. Difference is that in "piecing"-- both are willing to work.
Posted By: sandi2

Re: Sandi2's 37 Rules - 07/21/14 06:56 PM

Quote:
I have a question about going dark. If my wife felt alone in the family should I do this if she seems to want to spend time with me and the kids.?


Do you know what "going dark" involves? In glancing over your thread, I hardly see it being a successful move on your part. MWD suggests that going dark is saved until all else has failed. As many kids and activities your family has, I don't see how you could be dark. And, if not applied correctly, it loses the intended effect. I suggest you not go that route at this time.

BTW, (not saying you are, but) don't confuse the term going dark with detaching.
Posted By: Gotan74

Re: Sandi2's 37 Rules - 07/25/14 08:28 PM

Sandi one more question. In my stitch my wife was close to a mental breakdown and she had separated herself from the family slowly. She felt alone and probably thought she had no choice but to leave me and our 4 kids. She says that she doesn't want to date anyone just be alone but she spends 4 days a week at home. She doesn't ask for anything but changes have been made. We go out once and sometimes twice a week. Is this ok or am I chasing and pursuing?
Posted By: MrBond

Re: Sandi2's 37 Rules - 07/25/14 10:06 PM

Gotan74,

Have you actually read the DB or DR books? It seems like you're asking alot of the questions that re in the book. The only way you're going to learn is by reading them and understanding the concepts. You shouldn't be asking so many questions from others to get the "Cliff Notes" version.
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