wow! i can't believe i was actually locked out of my last thread before i had a chance to start a new one. lol. my perfectionist ways is having a hard time wrapping my head around this one.
so it's been weird. i have been txting H good night (it's my RV challenge of changing a behaviour). it usually results in us having a back and forth until i say.. "well.. good night". and the other day, H really annoyed me. and i had to remember that he is free to make his choice. then i was done w/ being annoyed. lol
we have not been doing our RV dialogue. we are supposed to be doing it everyday but it's rather challenging when you don't live together. and trying to do it over the phone proved to be unsuccessful. tues and wed night D wanted to call H to say good night and both nights he was asleep and didn't hear the phone ringing.
so last night i asked if he wanted to come over for dinner tonight and we could do our dialogue in person. i wasn't really sure if H would show but he did. and the minute he walked through the door.. he started crying. and he was holding the kids.. and they were asking.. why are you sad daddy. i asked if he was ok and he surprisingly said no an started sobbing. so i left him be.
afterwards, i asked how his dad was and he got teary again telling me that the cancer might be back. in the end, i gave him a hug and then i left the room. it truly pains me to see him hurting. then i made us tea. random? lol
my daughter was looking at a photo of me on our wedding day and said "mommy's a princess! mommy's so beautiful. i go show daddy" and then she did. i secretly laughed to myself!
anyway.. a couple of new things.. our dialogue was really good. insightful. we even reminisced about our "first" wedding (it's a long story). S5 sent me a song that H had obviously helped him make. the song says.. i love you mommy.. and it's some weird r & b beat.. so cute.. i loved it!! H use to do things like this for me a looooooong time ago. this is definitely my LL. and then when he left.. he said.. "text me later?". now i realize this sounds really insignificant and it probably is. i'm just taking notes... because we use to say "call me later?".. "text me later?" when things were good and we wanted to hear from the other person. for months now.. it has just simply been an awkward.. "bye".
i really don't know what's going on. but the reality is that i don't care so much today. i think.. it is what it is. i am continuing on my journey.. and i am good. i'm fine. more than fine.
oh, how nice for you! those little things mean so much when they come back! i'm happy for you and your family!
I refuse to have expectations, but my heart skipped a beat...oh wait, that was my benign PVC...
(((BF)))
I'm happy to hear that you have had good dialogue with your H. I hope it continues!
ok.. it's been a while. i thought it was time for an update.
things have been up and down to say the least. H has been around a lot more lately and it's really unsettling. he's either just.. hanging around.. or he vanishes. to sum it up.. we've had some really good dialoguing sessions. where he says he doesn't feel as trapped.. and questioning his decisions and his choices. said he wants to go back to IC because it really helps him explore and question some of the things he questions.
as for me.. through dialoguing.. i have been able to voice things i might not otherwise say. like how i am very apprehensive about trusting him. we don't discuss why.. just my feelings behind it.
and then the other day.. i just went on a complete rant. i was sick.. the kids were sick.. tired.. overwhelmed.. H was doing one of his disappearing acts.. and when i put D2 to bed, she cried and said she wanted me to stay with her. when i asked her if she was afraid i was going to leave she said yes. so i asked why? and she said.. "because daddy not here" and then later.. "if you leave D2 and S5 will be all alone". i cuddled her to sleep comforting her and telling her i wasn't going anywhere.. and when she fell asleep i cried my heart out for her.
the next morning, H finally txted "how are you feeling" and i just went on my rant.. telling him all about D. he said it was heartbreaking and came over soon aterwards for his weekend w/ them. well.. his weekend minus mother's day. he made plans w/ "friends". yeah. when i saw him, he made some general comment about a women at work who had gotten pregnant w/ a married man (of course the man didn't leave his wife) and how he had a lot more respect for her now after talking to her. about the choices she made.. and the struggles she faced as a single mom. i stewed for a couple of hours and when i got home saturday night, i couldn't hold it in and told him how hurt i was because of that comment. because i said.. i am basically a single mom. have you considered my choices.. and my struggles. and i cried.. and he actually took my hand and held it.. but i felt awkward and sucked up the tears.
it's a different hurt these days. it saddens me that he may never be the man that i need him to be again. there are times when i wonder.. is he purposely being hurtful or is he just clueless (like the comment about the single mom) and i really think he's just clueless. he says stuff like he wants to be there for the kids when they need him and to call and he will be right over to reassure him. i wonder.. reassure him of what?? yes you love them? that you didn't leave them?? and then when their tears dry.. you walk out that door again and they don't understand the concept of time an when you'll be back??
ok.. totally ranting again. i am definitely pmsing.
i should focus on the positives.. H made me breakfast in bed this morning before he left for the week. it was a nice mother's day surprise. he had S make a handmade card for me. H brought over treats for me the other day.. i was surprised.. it was actually for me because he picked out stuff that he knew i had liked in the past.
its a day to day process. 7 months. i didn't know where i would be 7 months ago. i'm surprised? and yet i'm not surprised at where i am. everything in God's time. not mine.
((((BF)))))
everything in God's time. not mine.
That's^^^one of the hardest things. Sorry you're roller coaster ride took a drop on you. Very thankful that you're getting feelings out on the table though. It may not seem like it now, but I believe it helps down the road. They just take time to seed it and bloom.
Hope you're feeling better and have a great week!
Hey Girl- Check Bug's most recent post. What about a daily gratitude journal/list? I'm sure u can find an app to do it on since u seem so tech savy.
When I actively practice gratitude and take just a few minutes to be greatful for the many things I have in my life or going for me I feel like I live in such a positive state and some of the triggers that could potentially take me down a negative road are stopped.
It kind of takes me out of the victim mask where nothing positive seems to come.
Things like:
-You r awesome
-u get to spend so much quality time w/ your kids
-your kids are healthy
-you are healthy
-etc..
Even the most basic things, shelter, eye sight, legs. Their are sooooooo many things to be greatful for.
Day to day it is!!
Good advice and much needed reminders for all of us.
i think i dropped the rope for a good while and then grabbed back on or something. i am so emotional and teary. is it the RV stuff?
i am out of sorts. and i know i really have no reason to be. H has not done anything differently. in fact, through RV, H has expressed that he no longer feels "trapped" and is thinking about choices.. and the answer to what he wants is not quite as clear anymore.. he made me breakfast in bed for mother's day.. when we talked the other day, he took my hand when i cried (even at the RV weekend i cried and he sat there looking at me). so what is it?? my expectations.
D2 woke up from her sleep a while ago and started crying. she clung to me when i went to go pick her up. she said she was scared i was going to leave. when i told H, he said.. poor nugget.. did she have her nightlight on?.. he later asked whether she was feeling like this because we sometimes rush her in the morning and she thinks we will leave without her. i txted back.. no. and told him she is afraid i'm not going to live her anymore like he doesn't and then her and S will be alone. yeah. didn't think i would hear back from him.
some days i feel like a crazy woman. wondering why the heck i haven't just.. moved on? what keeps me here? what makes me continue w/ RV? to attempt the dance of distancing myself while not distancing too much that he feels the door has been shut closed....
i really have no idea what i'm doing. db? RV? it's all got my head spinning.
so what did i do to make myself feel better? well.. i had a good cry. and then i went and purchased a deal for a 1 hr stand-up paddle surfing course.
you are doing it for your family. Your kids. Hang in Chris((((()))))
I like how you were able to comfort yourself Chris! You are awesome!
Have you ever read Weniki Tiki's thread in MLC, she does stand-up paddleboarding.
Did you read How to Improve your Marriage....? That book really opened my eyes to how we expect our partners (M or F) to think the way we do when it really just isn't in the DNA to do that.
I know that doesn't help in the middle of the night with a crying child but it point out to the pitfalls I had allowed myself to fall into.
D is lucky to have you for a mom! I'm lucky to have you for a friend.
And your H is lucky too.
You're the anchor your kids need to feel secure and you're doing AWESOME at it! Keep the focus on being better for you. You've got some good insights into managing yourself! IMO, we can't stop the emotionals that flow up & down in our sitchs, we can only learn to recognize them and respond in ways that help us more than in the past.
You're really doing that! (((BF)))
labug, is this the book you are talking about?
http://www.amazon.com/Improve-Marriage-W...3914&sr=1-1Have you ever read Weniki Tiki's thread in MLC, she does stand-up paddleboarding.
Did you read How to Improve your Marriage....? That book really opened my eyes to how we expect our partners (M or F) to think the way we do when it really just isn't in the DNA to do that.
I know that doesn't help in the middle of the night with a crying child but it point out to the pitfalls I had allowed myself to fall into.
D is lucky to have you for a mom! I'm lucky to have you for a friend.
And your H is lucky too.
Yes, the title's too long to type out.
I should shorten it to HTIYMWTAI.
In my Top 5 relationship books.
Chris, you know I feel the same way most of the time: WTH am I doing?
Actually, I think you're doing great. You're able to express yourself more than you would have done otherwise. You let yourself cry, then went and did something good for yourself. Way to go!
I am so proud of you for continuing the RV stuff, even when you sometimes probably want to quit! Keep going. Your kids are a lucky bunch!
so what did i do to make myself feel better? well.. i had a good cry. and then i went and purchased a deal for a 1 hr stand-up paddle surfing course.
^^^^^^AWESOME!!!!!
ok peeps.. update on the sitch.
RV continues.. this week's topic was intimacy. awkward? yes. difficult to face up to? yes.
things have been up and down for H and i. we had done some dialogue earlier in the week about trust and forgiveness. it did not go well. and today.. we had an interesting talk.
my mom is having a lunch on saturday for the anniversary of her H's death a year ago (it's an asian thing). i asked H if he wanted to go and he had said.. "i'll get back to you?". as for RV dialogue.. i asked H if he wanted to do some dialogue this week and he said he didn't know.. the topics were deep and he felt like i was trying to change him.
so in the end.. this is what our discussion ended with.. he is coming to lunch at my mom's (he stated he understood if i didn't want him there and i said i wouldn't have mentioned it if i didn't want him to come). as for RV.. i had said that i didn't want to continue w/ RV because i didn't want to continue w/ RV and continue to put myself out there if there was already a set agenda. after much discussion.. i left the decision up to him. he said he didn't know where it will lead but he wanted to continue the journey we started.
forgive.. it's 350am. i am on break at work.
LA - yes i have read wen's thread.. it always sounded so cool so i jumped at the chance to try it out!
thanks everyone.. for the love and support. it's nice not to feel alone.
i think i'm just about done.
i've spent the last couple of weeks really trying to just sort myself.. where i'm at.. how i'm feeling..
it's been really challenging. doing the RV dialoguing.. but i think i'm just about done.
i don't feel angry. i feel sad. but i'm ok. i really loved him. and in truth, i probably always will. but it's different. when i think about us... the innocence of that love.. that marriage.. is gone. i have been hurt so much the past few years w/ the infidelity, his leaving.. even now. his lack of commitment.. his choice of not being married.. i feel.. it is what it is.
i can not control how he feels. i can not make him be happy w/ this life. there's so much going on in my head and i don't know how to get it down in words.
i did something today that seemed so trivial but in hindsight.. i see the significance. i called a guy friend today. and i was nervous. how dumb! lol. but i think part of the reason why i felt nervous was that i was doing something out of my comfort zone. i should clarify.. i did not call him with the intention of pursuing.. yes i think he's cute.. but i think a lot of guys are cute.. it was the fact that it was a step forward for me. and something i would not have done if i felt M.
i keep thinking about the leona lewis song.. happy. i just want to be happy. i want that for H too. he is a good guy.
i can't write anymore. i'm all over the place. more emotions than words right now. i need a hug.
Yes I can see how you feel like you need another man to make you feel validated. I guess you are one of those who needs to have someone in their lives to feel happy.
Is that what you want?
Hmmm that's not how I read it.
bf, here's a hug (((bf)))
Are you going to continue the RV work? How many more weekends do you have?
You'll know the step you need to take when you need to take it.
(((((((((((((((((bb))))))))))))))))))
Wow. Mr bond.. I'm a little taken aback at that comment about requiring me being someone who requires validation from a man. What have you that impression?
LA - Thanks for the hug! There are 2 weeks left of RV. I gave H the choice whether he wanted to continue to which he said yes. H didn't want to do any of the dialoging this week because it dealt with intimacy. I'm not pushing anymore.
(((BF))) The standing one day for the M and saying eff it the next is part of the healing. It is a learning process that really svcks but we must go through it. What I read is that you are struggling with forgiving him. Maybe I'm wrong but it is what I'm reading. I know how strong you are and you will make it.
No I don't read it as needing validation but that you are unable to LET GO with out having some sort of EXPECTATION or control mechanism.
Maybe this is a step in that direction.
Maybe you need some reason to LET GO.
I think that the RV gave you some sort of false EXPECTATIONS.
I wish it were that easy, but this is really hard stuff.
What does "DONE" look like?
(((BF)))
Its seems that reaching out to your friend is part of closing the door on your M. Not sure if that's how you see it or not. At some point you do need to move on with you. And you know that the choice of your H joining you on that journey is his and not yours.
Can you tell me why calling your friend was out of your comfort zone? What part made you nervous?
Hey. Your heart and mind and emotions are going to be all over the place for a while. This is all so not easy and then to redefine your life going forward is not easy either.
What's underneath all that, your beautiful soul, will still be there waiting. Eventually you will reconcile all of it.
(((BF))) I had this in draft, but work kept me from responding. Gotta earn my keep.
I didn't get that you were seeking validation like Bond said. And I don't see that "you are unable to LET GO with out having some sort of EXPECTATION or control mechanism..." or that "RV gave you some sort of false EXPECTATIONS..."
like Cadet said. Maybe I'm missing something. What do I know? *shrug*
I'm wondering about the calling your friend thing too. I like how ces put it - "It seems that reaching out to your friend is part of closing the door on your M." I think you need to think more on why you called it trivial, but you were nervous and out of your comfort zone.
I think you are beautiful and strong, and that you TOTALLY rock! I see a teeny, weeny, yellow polka dot bikin in your future. ;-)
I think you need to think more on why you called it trivial, but you were nervous and out of your comfort zone.
Hmmmm, good point, RoRo.
thank you for all the feedback! it really has given me a lot of things to think about! i'm going to try the advance mode of quoting and answering comments. lol.
(((BF))) What I read is that you are struggling with forgiving him.
rick.. i think i have forgiven him. in the sense that i realize he is doing what he feels he needs to do. but i will say that i do not trust him. that is something i have been really struggling w/ for over 2 years since i found out about his PA. the difficult part is that he clearly stated in MC that he had no desire to rebuild that trust. i am not closed to R.. i just see a lot of hurdles if we ever decided to.
No I don't read it as needing validation but that you are unable to LET GO with out having some sort of EXPECTATION or control mechanism.
Maybe this is a step in that direction.
Maybe you need some reason to LET GO.
I think that the RV gave you some sort of false EXPECTATIONS.
I wish it were that easy, but this is really hard stuff.
What does "DONE" look like?
cadet, you are probably right about RV and the expectations. i had hope. hope = expectations? it's sometimes a blur to me. lol.
i'm not quite sure what you mean by maybe i need some reason to let go. i do need to let go. i guess that's what i meant by being done.
what does "done" look like for me. it's about moving on with my life. i love H. even through all the bad times.. there have been way more good. and i know when he loved me.. he truly loved me. but by being done.. i need to move forward. because H is on his own path. whether that path crosses with mine again remains to be seen. but he may never become the man i need him to be.. and i may never be the woman he needs me to be. does that make any sense?
(((BF)))
Its seems that reaching out to your friend is part of closing the door on your M. Not sure if that's how you see it or not. At some point you do need to move on with you. And you know that the choice of your H joining you on that journey is his and not yours.
Can you tell me why calling your friend was out of your comfort zone? What part made you nervous?
i have always had a lot of guy friends. i think i end up in the unintimidating.. reserved good girl that guys like to confide in. lol. and in a group setting.. i am usually the last one to get noticed.
so what made me nervous was the fact that i have been w/ H for 12 yrs. after M, i cut off a lot of those friendships. i only kept the guy friends that i was comfortable introducing H to and including him in those interactions.
this phone call was to someone H does not know. and i think you're right.. it is closing the door on my M in a way.
rick.. ro.. la.. thanks always for the love and support. as much as i need the 2 x 4's.. i need the love too!
the phone call was just a phone call. no more. no less. out of my comfort zone because i always feel so awkward and shy. i am truly a dork. lol. and it was something i definitely would not have done in my M.
as for the teeny weeny bikini?? you have got to be kidding me!!!! lol. i would need maybe 3 of those teeny weeny things to be decent!!
yay! i did it! i figured out how to do multiple quotes in one posting!!!!
(((((BF))))), there's a few, not in person but just as heartfelt.
I'm not gonna speak for .007 here....
I will speak from what I have been through, and seen....
We ALL seek validation in some shape or form. We all need to feel as though we are special.
When we first start posting here, we pat each other on the back and send out "((hugs))", and "I'm sorry" as if they are the last we will ever get. Many of us take those, and shed a tear, or soothe an anger that is building inside of us. Most of the time though, it brings us a smile, and a feeling of being understood. To some, it makes them feel loved and wanted.
What is that, other than a validation ?
What is calling a friend, and having an ear to bend, other than validation ???
What is posting on FB that you are feeling down, and having that contact make you feel loved, other than validation ???
What I am trying to get across, is that through this journey, we tend to lean toward the easy path rather than the path that is open , and brutally honest. We shy away from the questions that "sting" us , because it is easier to say that a person is full of crap, and walk away. The hard part, is having the courage to stand up when we feel the hair stand up on our necks, and ask...." Why did that hurt me so much? "
Once those questions are answered inside, you will validate yourself.
That is where true happiness comes into play. When you can validate your own feelings and actions. Internal validation is one of the hardest things to do, yet one of the most emotionally gratifying things you can do. You smile because it is what YOU want to show the world, regardless of the praise, or the ramifications.
My question to you would be....
IF it isn't true...
Why did Mr Bond's question ruffle you so much ?????
BTW....If you have to "think" that you are done.....you aren't...
so what made me nervous was the fact that i have been w/ H for 12 yrs. after M, i cut off a lot of those friendships. i only kept the guy friends that i was comfortable introducing H to and including him in those interactions.
this phone call was to someone H does not know. and i think you're right.. it is closing the door on my M in a way.
the phone call was just a phone call. no more. no less. out of my comfort zone because i always feel so awkward and shy. i am truly a dork. lol. and it was something i definitely would not have done in my M.
I totally get this^^^. My w has been out of my house for 9 months and the last I heard from her as far as where we stand was that she wanted to D.
Recently I became friendly with another woman and I felt guilty for talking to her because I am currently married. I am still trying to sort out why I feel this way. Maybe it is as you've said that it is closing the door some more but on the other hand I feel like our lives must go on.
Whatevs, u r not alone girl... (((BF)))
The fact that you mentioned calling another guy and then you started feeling better.
I totally understand the feeling of worthlessness that we feel when our spouse's leave us. The reason for GALing is so that the LBS feels confident and strong in themselves without having to rely on someone else to make them feel good. If you don't do that, you will find yourself in the same situation with someone else.
If you can honestly say that you're fine without someone in your life and have increased your self worth, then you're ready for going out with others. Just MHO.
I'm not gonna speak for .007 here....
I will speak from what I have been through, and seen....
We ALL seek validation in some shape or form. We all need to feel as though we are special.
When we first start posting here, we pat each other on the back and send out "((hugs))", and "I'm sorry" as if they are the last we will ever get. Many of us take those, and shed a tear, or soothe an anger that is building inside of us. Most of the time though, it brings us a smile, and a feeling of being understood. To some, it makes them feel loved and wanted.
What is that, other than a validation ?
What is calling a friend, and having an ear to bend, other than validation ???
What is posting on FB that you are feeling down, and having that contact make you feel loved, other than validation ???
What I am trying to get across, is that through this journey, we tend to lean toward the easy path rather than the path that is open , and brutally honest. We shy away from the questions that "sting" us , because it is easier to say that a person is full of crap, and walk away. The hard part, is having the courage to stand up when we feel the hair stand up on our necks, and ask...." Why did that hurt me so much? "
Once those questions are answered inside, you will validate yourself.
That is where true happiness comes into play. When you can validate your own feelings and actions. Internal validation is one of the hardest things to do, yet one of the most emotionally gratifying things you can do. You smile because it is what YOU want to show the world, regardless of the praise, or the ramifications.
My question to you would be....
IF it isn't true...
Why did Mr Bond's question ruffle you so much ?????
BTW....If you have to "think" that you are done.....you aren't...
you are right. i do seek connection.. love.. comfort.. if that equals validation.. then that's what i need.
what i read from .007 is
"Yes I can see how you feel like you need another man to make you feel validated. I guess you are one of those who needs to have someone in their lives to feel happy.
Is that what you want?"
yes.. i need people in my life to feel happy. but that's not the only thing. if i didn't need people, i would live a complete life of solitude and be ok with it. (alone in the wilderness comes to mind).
but if the question is whether i need a man to feel validated.. that would be inaccurate. it sounded like i needed another man before i could move on from this one.
did i get upset at the question? not upset.. more surprised because if felt like it came out of left field. trying to understand better whether i am giving off the impression that i need a man to validate me.
as for being done.. i think.. i'm not sure.. i'm getting close.. hence the reflection and taking my time to sort things through.
thanks for the tough words. i have been hoping to see more because i feel like i need it to move forward.
The fact that you mentioned calling another guy and then you started feeling better.
I totally understand the feeling of worthlessness that we feel when our spouse's leave us. The reason for GALing is so that the LBS feels confident and strong in themselves without having to rely on someone else to make them feel good. If you don't do that, you will find yourself in the same situation with someone else.
If you can honestly say that you're fine without someone in your life and have increased your self worth, then you're ready for going out with others. Just MHO.
lol. i was just thinking about this more!
i didn't feel better after calling another guy. it was simply that i took that step. a few months ago i would have felt guilty. but what is there to feel guilty about?
you are right. in the beginning i was a total mess. what was wrong with me? why wasn't i good enough? and it was awful. my self-worth went completely down the toilet.
i have battled a lot during this time with the question of why i felt i wasn't good enough? why i needed to feel i had to sacrifice myself all the time? who was asking me to be a martyr? no one. only myself.
i can honestly say that i am fine without someone in my life right now. my increased self worth? yes. i can take care of myself. i am perfectly capable of doing what i need to do for myself and my 2 monkeys. whether i'm ready to go out with others remains to be seen. lol. one step at a time!
mr.. thanks for the hugs. virtual or real.. it's all good!
SIAS.. it certainly isn't without it's complications is it? lol
"Yes I can see how you feel like you need another man to make you feel validated. I guess you are one of those who needs to have someone in their lives to feel happy.
Is that what you want?"
yes.. i need people in my life to feel happy. but that's not the only thing. if i didn't need people, i would live a complete life of solitude and be ok with it. (alone in the wilderness comes to mind).
but if the question is whether i need a man to feel validated.. that would be inaccurate. it sounded like i needed another man before i could move on from this one.
I read your post much the same way as Bond...
You were down, you made a call, and it happened to be a little risque, with it being this particular guy...
It read as if the only validation that could help you,at that particular time, was his....
did i get upset at the question? not upset.. more surprised because if felt like it came out of left field. trying to understand better whether i am giving off the impression that i need a man to validate me.
Coming from a man, who is on the other side of this....
It sounded that way...
Words can be a tricky thing sometimes...
as for being done.. i think.. i'm not sure.. i'm getting close.. hence the reflection and taking my time to sort things through.
Is being "done" your goal ????
OR is standing for your marriage while taking the time to improve the things that you don't like about yourself, in hopes that it pays dividends in your next relationship, that may or not be with your current spouse ???
We tend to work toward the goals that we have in our head.
Thinking about being done long enough, will allow you to accept what you may not really want.
Being done isn't a decision, it is a state of mind that takes TIME to get to. Rushing through things, is what regret is made of......
thanks for the tough words. i have been hoping to see more because i feel like i need it to move forward.
Are you sure about that ???
: )
Oh yes. Bring it on!! Lol. Yes I do like the pats on the back.. The hugs.. I won't lie. But I do need the hard questions that I am sometimes unable to see. Lol.
Ok.. This needs to be clarified. I wasnt down when I made the phone call. I was actually having a pretty good day (well.. Aside from the 2 demons that sometimes takes over my household). The reason i called was more.. Why couldn't I call? Nothing more.. Nothing less.
As for my goal of being done.. That has not been my goal throughout all this. I have really tried to find myself through this whole process. Who I am.. Why I do the things I do.. Why I feel the way I do.. I just meant I need to move forward. H has stressed over and over that that is what he wants.. I can not change that. Whether he decides to change his mind in the future is up to him. Maybe I will still be here.. Maybe I will not..no just need to start untangling the life we use to share in order to build a new one for myself and the kids.
Since when does calling a friend (male or female) mean that you *need* validation. Like Cadet said- isn't that what we were all looking for when we came here to the boards? I've never heard that humans were designed to be isolated people, we are social creatures by nature... so are we all needy? And if so, why is that wrong?
You have shown time and time again that you are able to stand on your own two feet and face your sitch with dignity. You have done A LOT of hard work on yourself and the M, and should feel proud that you can tell your kids "mommy tried". Isn't the point of all the introspections, effort and hard work to come out of it with a sense of self worth and what you value in yourself and a relationship? If after months of posting here (receiving validation from all of us, btw), self-reflection, 180's, GAL activities, even going to RV... you decided to call a friend (which I would call a 180 since it's out of your comfort zone)- wth is the problem??
I can completely understand the awkwardness and feeling nervous- after all, you said this wouldn't have happened in your M. Someone mentioned closing the door a little bit more on your M... is that what gives you hesitation? Any guilt that you may or may not have felt, is simply b/c you haven't fully chosen to move on yet. You've already admitted that you *think* you're done, which we all know means that you haven't put both feet into the water.... and that's ok! You're still standing on the edge thinking about what could be out there if you decide to let go.
I'll tell you this: when/if you decide that you've done what *YOU* can for your M, and you choose to move forward into a new life which is focused on you and your kids... it will be beautiful. You can choose to do it alone, or choose to have someone in it with you- either one isn't wrong. If you already know that you are a person who enjoys having someone to share in your activities and experiences...so be it. All of your hard work has led you to understand what you want from and for your life (whether that's in a M or not), and you have all the power to make that happen.
Whoever is blessed enough to be a part of your life, will have to be an incredible human being... because you're pretty m'fing special and you deserve nothing less than the best!
"isn't that what we were all looking for when we came here to the boards?"
No. We come here for understanding. Not to have people agree with us. If we did that we wouldn't learn anything.
The only reason why I brought up the having someone in your life part was because you mentioned "guy" and that you were nervous. So usually that implies that you want to go out with him.
There's nothing wrong with that. Just be sure you're not going out with someone because you are dependent upon having a male in your life. That was my point. That's what happens in rebound relationships and why they don't usually last.
If you can be confident and say that you are fine with or without anyone, then you're in a good place.
I can see how some some people can interpret a female calling a male as pursuit, but this is not how I interpreted the post. (And when a girl calls a guy, it does not automatically mean she wants him)
I read it more as someone trying to do something out of her comfort zone. People can feel uncomfortable in a variety of situations...public speaking, talking to a stranger, dancing with a stranger, eating alone in a restaurant...you name it.
Maybe this is part of self-improvement, growth, whatever...but being able to do something that you feel uncomfortable doing, and coming out "alive" at the other end, not having made a fool of yourself, can be a pretty good feeling....even a feeling of accomplishment.
had our RV session on conflict resolution today. it was good. but i'm ready..
i've had a lot of little moments these past couple of weeks. looking back.. i see the changes.. the timeline.. it wasn't what i had thought.
although the bomb was dropped almost 8 months ago, in truth.. i have battling with things within my marriage for over 2 years. that was when i found out about the PA.. and subsequent EAs. at that time, we had committed to working on our marriage and attending MC. things seemed better.. but i believe a lot was never fully resolved.
i really struggled w/ trust. and although H at first made an effort to regain my trust.. it slowly faded where he retreated to doing his own thing again. the weight gain.. the low self worth.. and even when he hugged me.. kissed me.. or when we ML.. i felt myself retreating because i wondered if he was comparing me to someone else.
this last time with the bomb drop.. i felt utterly devastated and truly it has been the most difficult and lowest point in my life thus far. heartbroken.. dejected.. completely miserable and lost.. but through that.. i set out on a journey to find myself again. where and when was the vibrant, independent woman lost? how did i become a shadow of who i was?
this morning, after work, i was walking to my car and thinking to myself.. i am a 37 year old woman. i am a working professional raising 2 beautiful kids. i have friends and family who love me. i love who i have rediscovered. i am a caring, compassionate individual who truly feels no remorse for the choices i made in trying to save my marriage. i committed to the best of my abilities to fight for what i believed in and still believe in.
i harbour no ill will towards H. i love him. he is a good person. he needs to find himself.. and i love him enough.. and myself enough.. to wish him the very best.
i didn't know where this journey would lead me. i know i didn't think it would lead me here. but this is where i am.
several weeks ago, i went out for coffee with a guy friend. he is someone i was very close to many years ago. he is someone my mom thought i should have married. when we were sitting at coffee, i looked at him and thought.. you are cute. and you are a sweet and kind person.. you always have been. i just never saw it. ok.. before anyone starts going on about my need for validation etc.. no. i do not feel anything for him. i just recognized that the world is full of great men and women if are able to just look at them.. truly look at them.
i focus on the male relationships i have on the db boards because it is something different from when i felt M. i go for coffee w/ my girlfriends all the time. but when i speak about the male companionship.. it is merely because it is something different from how things have been.
i am not closing my heart off to H. like i said, i do love him. we are intricately entwined by the kids and 12 years of being together. but i am moving forward.. and not feeling guilty for moving away from him. i want him to be happy. i want to be happy too.
BF, when you know, you know. Good for you for doing the hard work of self discovery and working to save your M. You will always be respected for the choices you have made and the effort you have placed in seeing things through to their natural conclusions.
I wish you the best and pray that you find happiness again. And you will find that happiness. Of that I'm sure.
God bless!
(((BF)))
It's so weird how pain can be such a teacher. It's like lifting weights or going for that extra mile in a run. Only when we move out of our comfort zones can we truly challenge ourselves to grow and achieve more.
It's awful that our situations are so painful but it's also amazing to see the emotional strength that grows within us to deal, face and move forward from these circumstances. These circumstances do not define us. Our response does. I agree with all your positive affirmations you mention above!! Hope you have a great day!
((bf)) it sounds like you are in a solid, peaceful place. You've done a lot of great work on yourself and that will only pay dividends in the future.
thank you. i do feel at peace. it doesn't mean i don't feel extreme sadness.. but i am at peace.
i drafted a letter i am intending to send to H. it starts w/ the RV way.. i'd love to have some feedback..
Dear H,
Thank you for being my biggest support and my best friend for almost 12 years.
This may be the hardest letter I have ever had to write. My strongest feeling today is extreme sadness. Sadness that I have to write it.. sadness that we are here today.
H, i never intended for you to feel that I was trying to change you. I realize now that we have both been trying to do what we felt was best and there is nothing wrong with that. We made our decisions and choices to the best of our abilities with the information that we had.
I love you. Through the ups and downs.. I have always loved you. And now… I know.. that I love you enough to want you to be happy. To want you to find yourself and find out who you are. i may never be the woman you need me to be and you may never be the man I need you to be. And I love you enough to want you to find that. Someone who loves and supports you.. and inspires you to be an amazing man.
I don’t regret a moment of “us”. I wouldn’t do anything differently.
I really got lost over the years. I became a shadow.. and never felt like I was good enough. But I recognize now that it was never you that said it. It was always me. I was the one that convinced myself I wasn’t pretty enough.. or thin enough.. I was the one that convinced myself that I didn’t measure up.
I think we both know that our current situation is not working. It hurts me to see you struggling and feeling so lost.
We need to discuss the house. Figure out child support.. custody/visitation arrangements.. I’m hoping by doing that, it will be much clearer what your financial obligations are and that will make it easier for you to find your own place so that we can both begin to rebuild our lives for ourselves.. and with S and D. I love those 2 so much!
I want to see you succeed. I want you to find passion and your own happiness. I can honestly say that I have started to find mine. I don’t want us to become a hindrance in each other’s lives. I don’t want us to look back on our time together with anger or bitterness. It was a gift. I didn’t see it then. But I see it now.
I’m not sure where our story ends.. or maybe it’s just the beginning.. I don’t know. I only know that I feel ok with moving forward. I think you feel that way too.
Always,
BF
Dear H,
Thank you for being my biggest support and my best friend for almost 12 years.
This may be the hardest letter I have ever had to write. My strongest feeling today is extreme sadness. Sadness that I have to write it.. sadness that we are here today.
H, i never intended for you to feel that I was trying to change you. I realize now that we have both been trying to do what we felt was best and there is nothing wrong with that. We made our decisions and choices to the best of our abilities with the information that we had.
I love you. Through the ups and downs.. I have always loved you. And now… I know.. that I love you enough to want you to be happy. To want you to find yourself and find out who you are. i may never be the woman you need me to be and you may never be the man I need you to be. And I love you enough to want you to find that. Someone who loves and supports you.. and inspires you to be an amazing man.
I don’t regret a moment of “us”. I wouldn’t do anything differently.
I really got lost over the years. I became a shadow.. and never felt like I was good enough. But I recognize now that it was never you that said it. It was always me. I was the one that convinced myself I wasn’t pretty enough.. or thin enough.. I was the one that convinced myself that I didn’t measure up.
I think we both know that our current situation is not working for me. t hurts me to see you struggling and feeling so lost.
We need to discuss the house. Figure out child support.. custody/visitation arrangements.. I’m hoping by doing that, it will be much clearer what your financial obligations are and that will make it easier for you to find your own place so that we can both begin to rebuild our lives for ourselves.. and with S and D. I love those 2 so much!
I want to see you succeed. I want you to find passion and your own happiness. I can honestly say that I have started to find mine. I don’t want us to become a hindrance in each other’s lives. I don’t want us to look back on our time together with anger or bitterness. It was a gift. I didn’t see it then. But I see it now.
I’m not sure where our story ends.. or maybe it’s just the beginning.. I don’t know. I only know that I feel ok with moving forward. I think you feel that way too.
Always,
BF
I can only imagine how hard this is for you.
(((bf)))
I am continually inspired by you and admire your incredible honesty, ability to love despite the pain, your amazing dignity, so much more too.
I can only imagine how hard this had to be yet you did this without ever once selling out, without ever losing the high road, while never losing sight of the incredbile gift you both created in those two amazing kids of yours.
Its is a tragedy in many ways what happened, yet you have given your husband yet another purely beautiful gift in addition to your love, and the kids. He may be the most fortunate man alive and hopefully he will see that despite the pain you stayed on the highest path any woman ever could have. I hope he knows, and I'm sure he will, recognize that you just gave him the most selfless gift of love I, for one, have ever seen.
So you found yourself again and that is another gift. Pressure creates diamonds and you are certainly one of them.
You will find what you deserve.
labug caught the things that caught my eye, which were places where you kind of put words in his mouth. I thought your letter should focus on your own thoughts so I would have modified those too.
I thought the confessions in it were fine and touching.
I think the expression of love is important for you to say.
I don't know anything. I can just offer my prayers and support and ((((hugs))).
another suggestion:
I don’t regret a moment of “us” but our current situation is not working for me.
Hey. I didn't know you were asking us to suggest changes! Hell, i thought it was perfect. How could it not be? Its from the heart.
i love who i have rediscovered. i am a caring, compassionate individual who truly feels no remorse for the choices i made in trying to save my marriage. i committed to the best of my abilities to fight for what i believed in and still believe in.
i harbour no ill will towards H. i love him. he is a good person. he needs to find himself.. and i love him enough.. and myself enough.. to wish him the very best.
i didn't know where this journey would lead me. i know i didn't think it would lead me here. but this is where i am.
Man, bf...this is so profound and gorgeous!
I completely believe that the pain we are faced with in our lives is where all of the important lessons we need to learn are. So many of us lose our sense of Self in relationships...we lose that delicate balance between *being* with and loving another and maintaining our own identity. As difficult as it is to go through these uncertain times, we are re-awakened and ideally reacquainted with the love we need to have for ourselves. Without it, we simply cannot enjoy healthy relationships with others.
Bless you, bf...you have so much courage and strength.
i'm looking for feedback.
i wasn't trying to db.. i'm not trying to change his mind.. or make him feel guilty.. i just wanted to share my feelings (which is essentially what we have been doing in RV) and let him know where my heart is.
that's all i got.
Hey, you know these boards...no one waits for an invitation to suggest changes! Hopefully Chris will just do what is in her heart.
Yes, you know what is best for you.
I thought it was written honestly and beautifully. Once labug suggested the changes, I could understand why, and do agree.
I do feel that maybe you need some kind of segway in the middle. You said that things are not working for you, and then you go into needing to discuss the house, finances, etc. Perhaps it might not be clear what it is that you want. To me (and maybe to most here) it seems that you want to go separate ways, while still continuing to co-parent. But I'm not sure it would be clear to your H.
It's an incredibly hard thing to put in words, and even harder to take the next step and give it to the WAS. ((((BF))))
i wanted to discuss finances because right now.. it's all intertwined. all our income goes into one acct and the bills are all paid out of there. he currently doesn't have his own space and is staying w/ his dad (who is probably not the best person to be staying with). having the finances joint actually benefits me because he pays half the mortgage etc. but i am wanting to try and figure out what will be in both our best interests. ie. he will know exactly how much he if responsible for in terms of financial support for the kids and therefore can make a plan for his own finances (hence getting his own place.. whether he needs to pick up a second job etc). and for me.. i will pick up more shifts at work if necessary etc.
feedback is good. it was really difficult to write because i didn't want to make him feel bad or guilty etc. i don't know.. i'm kind of flying by the seat of my pants here.
I would only change one small thing -- "what your financial obligations are". I would change that to "what our financial situation is", make it a mutual thing.
Otherwise, it was awesome, and can you please send it to my W too?
Accuray
thanks for you kind words joyful. as much as it's been difficult and painful.. there is the blessing of rediscovery. it's a continuing journey.. lol
Its from your heart and its your truth, I think its great.
I feel priviledged to witness your strength and have you as a friend.
[<-{((BF))}->]
Only change what doesn't honestly and clearly express what is in your heart.
((((BF))))
(((BF)))
Good suggestions from the ladies. Stick to what you feel. Talk about what your needs are (child care, plans confirmed arrangements).
Express what you feel you need to express. Get out what you need with only expectations for yourself and howmyounwant to move forward from here.
You are in my prayers.
how are you BF?
Please don't disappear if you two divorce. I think it is SO important that people posting here understand
that while not all the marriages get saved, or can be, ALL LBSers CAN grow and be happy again
regardless of what happens to their marriages...so for you to have come so far and grown so much in a relatively short time
means we/they will benefit from hearing how your new life that YOU create, goes.
And who knows, your h may wake up. There are at least 2 people on this site who reconciled after divorcing and being apart for 5 and 6 years, and I have 2 family members who divorced and remarried years later too.
It happens.
But perhaps MORE importantly is that no matter what your h does,
we want to know what you create for yourself, if it fulfills you,
if you meet another man and have another r, if that is a better healthier one for you,
really it's about
people in pain wanting to know what is on the other side of this pain...
and you'll be a valuable resource no matter what else happens with your h.
Thanks for all your work here. SO valuable.
And btw, I like the letter you wrote but agreed with all of Labug's changes b/c that's where you were speaking for him
or saying 'Your financial" obligations rather than both of yours...and last,
I also think your h is incredibly confused. He may not know exactly what you mean when you say you want to move forward. For all I know, he'll think you mean attend another RV session...
I think if you are ready to send the letter, be clear about what it is you are saying.
What is it, exactly, you are ready to do? Separate finances? Date OPs? File?
But when in doubt, don't...
and keep us posted!
((( )))
I'm baaaaaccccckkkkk...
wasn't sure where to start so thought i would give an update.
25 - thank you for your heartfelt message. i think i'm in a good place. and hopefully i can give back to someone who can benefit from feeling they are not alone.
hmmmm.. so H and i completed RV. we are not R.. we are not together.. but i am so glad i had the chance to go. because i learned a lot more of myself and i had moments of clarity that i might not have otherwise seen had i not gone.
when i look at where i was 9 months ago, i can't even recognize who i was. and i never envisioned that it would be possible to find some happiness again. in all honesty.. i don't even remember what it feels like to be married to H anymore. i don't remember that feeling of knowing he was coming home to me.
H and i get along fine. we're cordial.. friendly.. hard to imagine that he was my best friend. i don't share a lot of my life these days and he doesn't share a lot of his life. he continues to txt random messages asking how my day was.. wishing me a good night.. i don't initiate contact unless i have to.
i want him to be happy. i honestly do. i'm giving it a bit of time before i bring up the whole.. getting his own place thing again. my focus is now stability for the kids.. for all of us. i'd like to sit in my home.. look around.. and really feel that it's mine. paint my walls.. put up pics of friends.. and have people over whenever i feel like it.
i've been really thinking about what i want in my life. trying to define who i am? and that's in all aspects of my life. do i want to start dating? what am i looking for there? is it time to start taking a couple of courses to get into a specialty area at work? i have new friends.. love them!! they are like family...
in the end.. i love H dearly. we shared 12 yrs of our life together. because it is now ending.. i don't see it as a failure anymore. because we have 2 beautiful kids.. and we did have many great moments where we laughed and shared amazing experiences (like seeing elephants on my 30th bday!). i still am a firm believer in marriage. but it came to the point where i had to let go to find myself.. and honour him enough make his choices. i can't predict the future. maybe H and i will reconnect on this journey.. but maybe we won't. i'm just continuing on my life and not letting it pass me by..
i'd love to try to give back what i've received here on the boards but frankly.. i'm not even sure where to start! lol. i'll muddle through and see what input i can give. if anyone has suggestions.. please don't hesitate to point me in the right direction!
Guess who's back, back again.....
I hated these posts when I first started reading here.
Now, I get it.
Blessings on your journey.
Bugsy! Lol!! Should I'll add all the negatives too! Would that be better? Like.. Worrying about whether people are going to like me.. If I look ok.. Lol!!!
it's not always rosy..
although the majority of my days are happier.. there are still moments of sadness? regret? i'm not sure...
there are days when i feel like the life i have today no longer fits who i am. this home.. the daily routines.. they are things that were created based on being married. there are occasions when i'm standing in my home and everything looks familiar..and yet i feel so far removed.
maybe i need to move to get the fresh start i need? but i'm not quite sure what i want. perhaps if H found a permanent place and moved his stuff.. i could begin to create new memories here? dinner parties? evenings w/ friends and a bottle of wine?? i'm trying so hard to find my place...
i had to see H yesterday to have him sign some insurance papers. i really felt fine. i even had him take S to have his hair cut while D and i went to the pet store etc. it was very much like what we use to do. afterwards.. i had H walked outside to the area where i had parked the car (not my usual area). H didn't help w/ the kids to the car but he stood around and made a phone. i didn't think anything of it. but even after he made the phone call, i was surprised to see him standing around watching me put the kids in the car and then drive away. he stood there to watch us leave (he use to do this a lot a home.. and wave goodbye to the kids).
that image of him standing there made my heart hurt. not because i wanted him.. but it was a reminder of the life that no longer exists. and in that moment i felt so sad... knowing we both had to move on.
there you go. i have made the decision that if H does not file by the beginning of next year.. then i will file the D papers myself. many days i am happier.. at peace.. but there are days where there is that underlying sadness that i wonder if it will ever go away...
Hi BF - Isn't it strange how one minute, one day, one week, one month we feel like we are totally over it and then some memory, sound or smell triggers all the emotion we thought we had purged?
I think that at the end of the day, all of this is just a process. Good days, followed by bad ones. Eventually the good start to outnumber the bad and the next thing you know, you are living life again.
The underlying sadness you feel is something I think we all feel. I don't know if it ever really goes away or if it is simply replaced by some other emotion. Perhaps the sadness gets buried under new found happiness.
BF, I believe that love and happiness is yours for the taking. Just don't go looking for it. It will arrive when you least expect it. It is a lot like a pot of water waiting to boil. If you watch it, it will take forever.
Live your life.
I have read many threads on here and the emotions you are experiencing seem to be in line with many at your particular stage.
Keep blazing that trail for us mamacita!!
BF-
I hope everything continues to go well for you. You sound so strong, grounded and at peace.
I understand your feelings of sadness and loss. Time and healing help transform some of our intense hurt and anger to that sadness. I feel it too sometimes.
I hope you come back soon to update us. I look forward to hearing all the fun things you have going on.
(((BF)))
thank you everyone who has supported me through some very tough times. i'm hoping to be able to pay it forward by lending support to others when i can.
for the time being.. if you care to follow my sitch.. i can be found over at surviving the big D
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2279132&#Post2279132