My LONG story...
My husband and I have known each other since 1995. We both met while in college in NC, and were friends immediately. For about week, after I broke up with the scum I ended up being with for years after that, we fell for each other blissfully.
We wrote each other that summer, but I got back with the scum, so no more letters. We continued to be friends, and would see each other on campus or around town off and on. But nothing every happened. Then one weekend while I was back home in NC visiting a friend, I saw his best friend. I think he was more excited to see me. LOL His first words were “I cannot wait to tell ____ I saw you.” I got my husband’s phone number and called him as soon as I got up the next day. I found out he actually lived in my area. We started hanging out and then became intimate. One time. I didn’t really like it and decided not to call him again. LOL My friends encouraged me to give the man another chance, so we remained friends. He ended up becoming unemployed and had to move back to NC. I was livid because he didn’t tell me until he had already moved back.
Then I needed a date for a wedding, he came up that weekend, and the rest as they say is history. We dated (officially) for 2 years before getting married in the Bahamas. We’ve been married just shy of 3 years. We have one son, my stepson who is 19 and lives in NC with his mother.
During the past 3 years, our marriage has been at most trying. He was unemployed for basically the whole year before we got married, and then much of the first year we got married. I did not handle it well. I come from a family where a man works; no matter what it is he has to do. He believes as long as unemployment is coming in, I can take my time to find the right position. Needless to say, things were rocky. We talked about separation once during that first year, but decided against it I did catch him having a text “relationship” back and forth during that year. This also happened prior to us getting married. (Yeah, yeah, I know!)
Enter the 2nd year…things are better, but not by much. I find yet another phone bill with a mysterious number being called and texted at all times of the night. I lose it, tell him to get out, and he does. I then proceed to beg him to come back. He goes to stay with his mom, and comes back and says he wants out. I beg and plead some more and he stays. (UGH!)
Year 2 is a little better. I start IC and we end up in MC. Things go fairly well until I mention to him that since he tends to have a lot to say in MC, he might want to think about going to IC like me. Well, he didn’t want to continue. We have another big fight, he goes home to his mother’s yet again, but we make up when he gets back. All along he’s been telling me about my tone when I talk to him. This time, I actually listen to him and work hard and trying to change.
But something still isn’t right. I can feel it in my bones, but I’m not sure what. We haven’t been intimate in MONTHS, and I’m getting that feeling again. Checking the phone bill, and the same numbers appear or so I thought. We went out of town for New Year’s Eve and I just knew it was finally going to happen. NOT! I was upset and let him know, but let it go. Then when nothing still had not happened around January 3rd, I told him he had to tell me what was going on. That’s when Bomb #1 comes out: He’s not happy. We’re not compatible and just don’t need to be in a relationship with each other. He still loves me but doesn’t think we can be together. I beg, I plead. I ask him if there’s anyone else. He says no. I ask about MC. He says No, he’s done.
I accepted it and started the Love Dare the next day. Told him I wasn’t giving up on us. But it just wasn’t making any sense. I then get the idea to check his iPad to see if I could find anything. He was spending an inordinate amount of time in the bathroom with that thing “listening to music”.
Come to find out he’s been having an affair (not sure if it’s just EA or full blown) for about 6 months (as far as I can tell from going back and looking at the phone bills). He actually had a whole identity on Twitter that I didn’t even know about. I’m actually happy to find this news out. (Crazy right?) It just let me know that it wasn’t all me. Anyway, I confront him calmly and tell him that I know there’s another person, and while it hurts me, I’m still not giving up on our marriage. And…this chick is friends with my stepson on FB. That burns me up! He’s 19; he’ll friend anyone on FB!
He went out of town last weekend after that conversation (to a town near where OW lives). Not sure if he saw her, but they’ve both since locked their Twitter accounts down. I asked him why. He told me it would be awkward. This is definitely an alien talking to me.
So…getting near the end...since he’s been back, he’s been sleeping on the couch. There’s been so much tension in the house. I’m trying to GAL as much as possible, but some days I can barely get out of bad. And God, do I miss sleeping beside him. And talking to him. And laughing with him. I was able to eat 2 half meals yesterday which is more than I’ve had in two weeks. The adultery diet helped me shed around 15 pounds already. Which I needed to lose.
I sent him an email today telling him that I still wasn’t giving up on us, even with the OW involved. I told him I was sorry that my behavior in our marriage had caused him so much pain, and that God was working on me with showing unconditional love even before I knew about the OW. I told him that we both promised before God that we would honor our covenant and that’s what I’m doing, even if he doesn’t want to. He responded that he’d always love me and he misses our friendship too. And he’s sorry for all the pain he’s caused me. (I know…take it with a grain of salt)
From the posts I’ve read everyone is saying GAL like never before. But what if I wasn’t showing enough attention to start with? My husband needs lots of attention, which I think is what this woman is providing. Should I still GAL? I’m so confused. It’s only been two weeks and I’m still floundering.
I also find it funny that he didn’t choose anyone where we live. We live in a Metro area where the population of woman to man is like 10:1.
My question is now what? Is there a way to get individual DB sessions? I can’t afford the $390 3-session deal just yet. But I need to start somewhere. I have both DR & DB books, as well as the Tough Love book by Dobson.
How do I edit my post title so that it makes sense?
hello roroinMD
how about you start by literally taking a couple of deep breaths....and then read on.
your biggest risk at this point is that you will over-pursue your H and drive him into solidifying a position of wanting out. plus, desperation is not exactly an appealing quality is it? i'm saying that playfully, not critically. but that's true, no?
at the same time, i know how very hard it can be not to feel panic stricken and desperate. and that is one of the reasons you need to work on a GAL strategy. you need to move on this and move fast i think - otherwise you are at risk for a downward spiral of wallowing. the good news: i believe you can GAL and really begin to respect yourself for it.
i encourage you, then, to do two things. first, think about what your life would look like if it were just the way you wanted it (aside from the relational part with your husband). then identify the things you would need to do - very specific things - to get there. what would those things be?
secondly, make a list of 10 random things - small things - that you've never done or want to do - and do them within the next week. do two of them today.
as you are doing these different things, please observe whether your H is initiating any discussions about your relationship. if he is, see what happens when you mostly listen to what he says, validate his point of view and then let him know you really want some time to think about what he said before you reply or comment. if he is not initiating conversations, then let that be for a while. that can be so hard in this situation, but - once again - i believe you can do it.
does this help you roroinMD? please post and let me know....
onyourside2
Excellent post, OYS2! Thanks. I'm not roro, but it helped me.
Thanks onyourside2. I did need to be told to take those deep breaths. It's been a CRAZY two weeks. I was already high strung and this hasn't helped. LOL
I tend to talk a lot, and analyze things, so my beginning posts will seem a little long winded. My major in college was Comp Sci, so forgive me!
I totally agree with the over-pursuing thing. And personally I am getting kind of obstinate about seeming desperate. LOL (Which is why I'm here asking for help.)
Thinking about my life if it were just the way I wanted it:
-lose about 100lbs (seriously, I've lost 15 in the last two weeks, I'd take another 20 or 30 or so right now) I work out, but haven't really been consistent since he dropped the first bomb. I need to do this for myself. Come Monday, back on my regular schedule.
-Have a clean house (the clutter is really out of control. Started clean-up last weekend, and will continue this weekend)
As for the 10 random things, I thought I needed to think about that. I'm always so busy taking care of my family (extended included) that I rarely do things just for me. Then an idea came to me as I was reading over my post. I do not watch scary movies. I'm a wimp I know! But some scary movies are really good. So that's first on my list - Go see The Devil Inside. We're supposed to have bad weather tonight, so I probably won't be able to go until tomorrow, but I am going. (The Hubs will probably want to go if I mention it to him as he loves scary movies. I'm assuming I should just go. But then that seems like I'm deliberately going out of my way not to do stuff with him. Am I over thinking this? Help!)
I am kind of excited about this list!
We have NOT talked about our relationship at all since this past weekend (which wasn't a good conversation). I honestly don't have the energy for it yet. So your advice here helps.
Also, he moved back into the bedroom last night. I didn't tell him when he came home from being out of town (seeing his friends and also OW I believe) that he had to sleep on the couch, I think he assumed that's where he would be. I'm thinking my email to him yesterday may have given him the impression that he should move back. I didn't say anything to him about it, just moved to my side and went back to sleep. He sought me out this morning to kiss me goodbye and said he loved me and have a nice day. He has also already emailed me today. (Which he has not done on his own just because in the last two weeks)
I don't want him to think that I am over this by any means, but being that I'm trying not to initiate the conversation about the relationship, how should I handle this? (It makes my skin crawl to think I could be lying beside him and he's thinking of the OW)
So I've been thining of more things for my list.
1) Watch a scary movie on purpose.
2) Enter any and every kind of contest I want to. No matter how outlandish it seems.
3) Visit the nearest planetarium.
4) Take a cooking class.
onyourside 2 - I need your help and insight. See my post by molly v - "help me please"
Any help would be great!!
You should GAL, like your life depends on it.
Why would you want a H who needs a lot of attention? Of course, this OW is showing him attention ... she's new, she's the so-called greener grass. BUT, you must get out there and show him you don't NEED him. You want him, but that's a whole different story. Go out, and be the fun person you were when he met you. Act "as if" until it is.
Why did his first M end? You might find out a lot there about how he functions.
Just thought of something else to add to my list - Bake a cake from scratch. My MIL makes fabulous cakes and I always have said I am not a baker. But now I want to try it. Maybe I am good at something else!
My h was never married to my SS19's mom. They were together in high school, but didn't last once he went off to college. He did tell me that she wanted everything her way and was controlling.
I also need some advice on detaching when we live in a smallish 2 bedroom condo. I got tired of having to sit in our bedroom watching the 22-inch TV while he got to sit in the living room with the 32- inch. So I've been in the living room too. There doesn't seem to be a way to really detach and not seem rude or cold when we have to share this little space.
Any advice on how to handle living with your spouse and they are still seeing the OP? She doesn't live near us but they are still communicating via Twitter and phone, and probably email.
Journaling...
Weekend was ok. Spent lots of time watching TV with H. (I've seriously got to get a bigger TV in the bedroom) I know I need to detach, but don't want to seem like I'm moping in my room either.
He's being extra nice (cooked dinner Friday night, bought my favorite snacks to ride out the ice storm this weekend, and helped me clean my car off after the storm Saturday morning). We've had some good laughs together, but everything seems superficial. I'm probably over analyzing again, but that's what I do - to myself anyway. We were both in our separate corners (me on our small couch, he on the long one), and mine was extremely uncomfortable. He told me to come sit beside him so I could be comfortable. We both fell asleep. No cuddling, but it did seem like old times. We used to spazz on this couch all the time.
He's still sleeping on the couch at night. Is it crazy that even though we haven't been intimate in MONTHS, I want him even more now? (Maybe because I found out he's giving it to someone else? Which makes me dislike myself even more for how I've treated him.)
Had a rough morning today. Couldn't stop crying while I was getting dressed. The grief seems to hit me when I least expect it. I managed to get myself together, but whew...for a few moments I just wanted to crawl back into bed.
My sister and brother are coming up for the weekend on Friday. Not sure how this will play out. We haven't told any of the family yet, so hopefully he won't choose this weekend to feel we need to do so. Not sure I can handle it yet.
This whole moderation thing consistently keeps my thread off the first page. GRRR!
Anyway, I went back to kickboxing after 2 weeks off. I know I have to GAL, or at least continue the one I have. Today was an ok day, but saw a music video that had me bawling AGAIN! *sigh* Here I was having a great time watching VH1 Soul dancing by myself. Then Jill Scott's "Here My Call" came on. I had purposely avoided the radio and music channels the past two weeks to avoid this kind of episode.
Anyway, I had yet another heart wrenching cry. (They seem to be getting more gut wrenching and animal like. STRANGE) I'm ok now. Just going to take a shower, read some and head to bed. Long day tomorrow.
Reposting this since I think this got caught up in moderation before: Any advice on how to handle living with your spouse and they are still communicating the OP? She doesn't live near us but they are still communicating via Twitter and phone, and probably email.
I asked this question before about detaching and going dark, but still haven't quite figured it out. If the WAH's complaints were about not getting enough attention, feeling left out and like the enemy, how should detaching and going dark work? Should I even go dark?
Hi RoRo...
I wanted to share something with you that I discovered as I went through my divorce. I used to watch television ALL the time. I was dependant on it for all of my entertainment. Why don't you ask your h to go for a walk with you instead of just watching tv? Or maybe go take a dance class...There are so many things out there that are ACTIVE that can help you have fun and not just sit on a couch. I have lost over 65 pounds so far and love it! Now, I STILL watch TV. I DVR the shows I like and watch them when I have time. My ex and I used to watch TV all the time together but it wasn't quality time together.
Just something to think about!
Brian
Hi Roro,
Sorry you find yourself here but it does sound like you may be in a better position than some of us. Your H still seems to be engaging w/ you and willing to spend some time together.
My H and I use to spend a lot of time together sitting in front of the TV watching movies. We were together but totally disengaged as one of use would be on our phone and the other would be doing something else at the same time. What a mistake.
Brian suggested taking dance classes. H and I had done that in better times and we had a blast! Even talked about taking more classes together but we never did.
Go have fun if you are able to with H. If not, go yourself and maybe he'll want to join you then.
Hi RoRoinMD,
I wrestled with the same question, if your spouse's criticism was historically not enough quality time, then is GAL / detach the right thing to do?
The short answer is "yes", and here's why: H is effectively detached himself. He's trying to keep a "safe zone" of emotional space. If you pursue him, you compress his safe zone and he has to retreat to maintain it. If you push him away further by pursuing, you're going to have to regain every inch later.
Here are a few things to consider:
Reading your situation, lack of attention was probably not the only complaint H had about the marriage. You reference the fact that you treated him badly. Do you understand the list of issues that he had with the marriage? Part of DB is understanding that list, coming to terms with whether or not they would be problems for anyone, and deciding to address those things for you. "180's" are practices where when you have an opportunity to exhibit one of those historic bad behaviors, you do the opposite. If you used to complain, you support, if you used to control, you step back, etc. These 180's are far more important than paying attention right now. If you detach but knock your 180's out of the park and are able to effectively GAL, H will come looking for you versus waiting to be pursued.
It also looks like H has been pursuing women outside the marriage since you were dating and throughout your marriage. Is this the same woman, or different women? Why is H doing that? Do you have a theory? If H is a serial cheater, I would guess you've had trust issues, and that may have motivated some of your bad behavior.
One book to read is "The 5 Love Languages" by Chapman. It will help you understand how to make H feel loved, because the way to appeal to H is probably much different than what makes you feel loved. You need to be able to understand the difference and work with it. IMO it's a critical piece of knowledge.
Finally, I think you need to step back and come to terms with your situation. If H says he's done and there is OW involved, there is no quick fix here. Nothing you say or do on any given day is going to have an immediate and measurable effect.
As humans, we like simple cause and effect relationships -- if I do A, I get B. Humans are terrible with long feedback loops and complicated systems, and that's what your relationship is. Therefore you need to work on a lot of things over a long period of time, then you'll start to see results all at once, but it will take much longer than you expect.
As long as OW is involved, you will not be able to draw H closer to you. All you can do is tread water and not make things worse. OW needs to run it's course while you, in the meantime, improve yourself and consequently become a more attractive partner. The better you can do this, the shorter OW's shelf life may be. That said, I challenge you to find a single situation on this board where the LBS was able to say or do anything to get their spouse back once OM/OW was involved. If you look around, the progress never starts until that relationship is over.
H needs to know that (1) you want to save the M, (2) you own the difficulties that you brought to the relationship, and (3) you are committed to becoming a better person for your own good. Once H understands that, your pursuing is done. You can't point out any of your progress, you can't tell him about all the ways that you've changed. You just have to do it and assume he will notice. It's only be repeatedly demonstrating change over and over again that it becomes credible. Talking about it does nothing.
Here's the good news -- OW isn't a real threat. That relationship is based on fantasy. It's not about OW, it's about the issues you had with your M. H's dilemma is not you or OW, it's do I stay or do I go?
You want to demonstrate that you are the kind of wife that only a fool would leave, so "going" would be a really bad decision.
How do you do that?
-- Be responsible for your own happiness -- don't make H think "he's doing this to you and making you feel badly". "Act as If" everything is OK.
-- GAL -- do things that make you a fun and interesting person to be around. The joy you take from your GAL activities makes you interesting and that is infectious
-- 180 -- make H wonder if he really knows the real you. Make him call into question all the assumptions he holds about how you'll react.
I definitely don't think that sitting in separate rooms watching TV is a good place to be right now. You can "give space" while watching TV together if you don't talk about your relationship, your feelings, etc. Keep it light and topical. Alternately, while H is watching TV take the opportunity to go out and do something interesting. Get a life going outside the house. Make H wonder what you're up to.
Good luck RoRoinMD, GAL and detach are definitely the right things to do right now despite H's historic concerns about "not enough attention". More attention right now will sabotage your efforts.
Accuray
Brian & BF - Seriously doubt dance class would be an option right now. Just don't think he'd go for it yet. And its dark by the time I get home, so the two of us walking is out. Keep coming with ideas though. Maybe a cooking class?
quote=Accuray]Hi RoRoinMD,
Reading your situation, lack of attention was probably not the only complaint H had about the marriage. You reference the fact that you treated him badly. Do you understand the list of issues that he had with the marriage? Part of DB is understanding that list, coming to terms with whether or not they would be problems for anyone, and deciding to address those things for you. "180's" are practices where when you have an opportunity to exhibit one of those historic bad behaviors, you do the opposite. If you used to complain, you support, if you used to control, you step back, etc. These 180's are far more important than paying attention right now. If you detach but knock your 180's out of the park and are able to effectively GAL, H will come looking for you versus waiting to be pursued.
Yes, I understand the list of issues my husband has with me and how I treated him in our marriage:
- My tone when talking to him - He took it as talking down to him and made him feel like the enemy
- Not greeting him upon entering the house - This is a big thing for him. He told me it had him not wanting to be intimate with me. (YIKES!)
- He also told me I was too wound up, and never seemed to have fun for real. Which I am not surprised about. I am. Always have been. But for the last 6 months I've been walking around on egg shells trying to figure out what was going on with us. So I think that's where this is coming from. Trying to relax and have fun a little more now.
It also looks like H has been pursuing women outside the marriage since you were dating and throughout your marriage. Is this the same woman, or different women? Why is H doing that? Do you have a theory? If H is a serial cheater, I would guess you've had trust issues, and that may have motivated some of your bad behavior.
I do not have a theory on this. I do know his dad is a womanizer, not sure about his stepfather. He doesn't have a relationship with his dad after an incident about a year ago, but I can see his dad's past behavior written all over this. His dad high tails it when things get rough. At home, at work, with his son. He's the expert in going dark when he's in the hot seat. LOL I know he misses him, but refuses to contact him or anything.
Yes, there are trust issues, but they go way back to my own dad leaving my sister and I, and previous relationships. My dad and my mom don't have the greatest relationship and its affected me my WHOLE life. I was also sexually abused when I was a kid, and no one in my family outside of my H knows. I was in couseling last year, but recently stopped going. I'm trying to decide if I want to go back. It was helpful, but not sure if I want to go back to the same one.
One book to read is "The 5 Love Languages" by Chapman. It will help you understand how to make H feel loved, because the way to appeal to H is probably much different than what makes you feel loved. You need to be able to understand the difference and work with it. IMO it's a critical piece of knowledge.
I have this book at home, and will reread it.
Finally, I think you need to step back and come to terms with your situation. If H says he's done and there is OW involved, there is no quick fix here. Nothing you say or do on any given day is going to have an immediate and measurable effect.
As humans, we like simple cause and effect relationships -- if I do A, I get B. Humans are terrible with long feedback loops and complicated systems, and that's what your relationship is. Therefore you need to work on a lot of things over a long period of time, then you'll start to see results all at once, but it will take much longer than you expect.
I think I have come to terms with my situation. That to me doesn't me I have to accept it. I am standing for my marriage as God wants me to do. But I am willing to accept it quietly, for a while at least. (Which is a definite 180 for me, and has freaked him out a little I think!)
As long as OW is involved, you will not be able to draw H closer to you. All you can do is tread water and not make things worse. OW needs to run it's course while you, in the meantime, improve yourself and consequently become a more attractive partner. The better you can do this, the shorter OW's shelf life may be. That said, I challenge you to find a single situation on this board where the LBS was able to say or do anything to get their spouse back once OM/OW was involved. If you look around, the progress never starts until that relationship is over.
I am expecting this to be a long haul. Detaching & treading water I know will be my issues. I just need to find the balance of detaching without being cold. I normally don't do that well. When I detach, I'm usually gone. Which I think I've done in our marriage without intending to do so, so that may be a whole other issue now that I think about it. I have been gone. *sigh* The things I'm learning about myself.
H needs to know that (1) you want to save the M, (2) you own the difficulties that you brought to the relationship, and (3) you are committed to becoming a better person for your own good. Once H understands that, your pursuing is done. You can't point out any of your progress, you can't tell him about all the ways that you've changed. You just have to do it and assume he will notice. It's only be repeatedly demonstrating change over and over again that it becomes credible. Talking about it does nothing.
I have told him that I want to save our marriage, and that I own up to my own issues and how they have affected us. I also told him I've already started on the road to becominga a better me.
Here's the good news -- OW isn't a real threat. That relationship is based on fantasy. It's not about OW, it's about the issues you had with your M. H's dilemma is not you or OW, it's do I stay or do I go?
You want to demonstrate that you are the kind of wife that only a fool would leave, so "going" would be a really bad decision.
How do you do that?
-- Be responsible for your own happiness -- don't make H think "he's doing this to you and making you feel badly". "Act as If" everything is OK.
-- GAL -- do things that make you a fun and interesting person to be around. The joy you take from your GAL activities makes you interesting and that is infectious
-- 180 -- make H wonder if he really knows the real you. Make him call into question all the assumptions he holds about how you'll react.
I definitely don't think that sitting in separate rooms watching TV is a good place to be right now. You can "give space" while watching TV together if you don't talk about your relationship, your feelings, etc. Keep it light and topical. Alternately, while H is watching TV take the opportunity to go out and do something interesting. Get a life going outside the house. Make H wonder what you're up to.
Good luck RoRoinMD, GAL and detach are definitely the right things to do right now despite H's historic concerns about "not enough attention". More attention right now will sabotage your efforts.
Accuray [/quote]
I do have activities that I do outside the house (Curves, Kickboxing), but with it being winter, there's not much to do after dark around here unless I want to go to Happy Hour every night - Umm no, especially when I have to get up and be at work the next day. I have bible study on Wednesdays, which I am making myself go to from now on. Its hard to even get out of bed these days, much less have fun after work, when all I want to do is bury my head under the covers.
I am on Meetup, so maybe I will find some new things to do on the weekends. I did tell my H that I was planning on going Ziplining as soon as it got warm outside. (Total 180! I'm normally a wimp. He had his look of mild amusement on his face. LOL)
Nice RoRoinMD,
It seems like you have it figured out intellectually, you just need to do it! It sounds like you have some good GAL activities figured out, have identified the 180's to work on, and have a plan for working on them.
If that's the case, time is your ally, there is no reason to rush anything right now. Take deep breaths and exercise to deal with the anxiety. If you can find a good support structure other than an IC that can help too -- someone you can call and talk to any time you need to, day or night. When I got really low and was tempted to pursue W, my support structure always saved the day. I'd spend 30 minutes on the phone with a friend and come away propped back up.
To your point, if "being cold" has been an issue, make an effort to be friendly. My DB coach talked about "the acquaintance standard" and "the friend standard". If you were dealing with a casual acquaintance, you know how to be polite, you know how to not come across as cold. Think of H as an acquaintance. Progressing from that, you can use the friend standard. The point with a friend is that you might invite them to dinner. If they come along, great, and if they decline, you don't really care, it's fine. That perspective takes pressure off the relationship -- there is no expectation that H will do anything. You'll each have opportunities to interact, either you'll take them, or you won't, but either way you're still friends.
Is there anything specific you'd like help with, or is the best thing the board can do right now is support you?
Accuray
hi roroin
i have a couple of questions. you referenced complaint about moderation. what are you referring to?
secondly, does your H acknowledge there is an OW? i'd like to share a thought on him texting and all that, but first it would be helpful to know this.
i like that you are trying out new things. bravo, bravo bravo. one thing you learn from this, and that i learned from this, is how to keep yourself doing things even when it's difficult. and remember the words of one of my favorite so called motivational speakers: "anything worth doing is worth doing badly" - because we are all bad at things when we first start doing them.
do you exercise at all? can you take some off the time in front of the TV and go out for walks? what concerns me about the time with H and the TV is that it's all part of a routine. and if the status quo got you to where you are, perhaps you want to be thoughtful about which parts of it you maintain.
the emotional roller coaster you're on? it's very difficult and very normal. i do think the cries are good - you're a very solid person when you can do this and work a DB program at the same time.
cheers to you,
oys2
Accuracy - Yes, my brain works fine most days. Its my heart that's the issue. LOL I do have some support, but not someone I would feel comfortable calling day or night. I have some great friends, but they have their own families and I don't want to bring my drama into theirs. We haven't told the family yet, so I can't call any of them. (Well, I did tell my older half-sister, but she's really know help as she mentioned going to the range. LOL)
I really like the acquaintance & friend standard. That made me think more about our interactions. When I think about it like that, its low pressure. I just need to remind myself not to expect a a good reaction - or any reaction at all.
I think I just need the board for support. I tend to get very dramatic and caught up in the things that aren't working. I'm definitely more of a glass is half empty person. So if you guys can be there to talk me off the edge of the ledge occasionally, that should work.
Today's posts really helped put some things in perspective. Instead of talking about it, I need to be about it.
Onyourside - I was talking about the site moderation. I think I'm finally out of it, so my posts will show up when I submit them. It was taking my anxiety to level 42. LOL
My husband sort of acknowledged there was another woman. He never came out and said yes or no. He said it just happened when I asked him about it. And then I went off. LOL He told me he was feeling done in our marriage before this happened. But he still hasn't said what THIS is. I asked him if he accidentally fell in the bed, and he just gave me this look. From what I've able to gather from my snooping when I found out, I believe she said I love you (can't remember the exact email - he may have responded with the same), and he's written her poetry. He writes, and we fell in love over his letters and poetry, so this was yet another thing that killed me. There was a reference in one email to them being together in 2012. They are still in contact via cell phone because its in my name, and he always goes over the minutes and they send me a text message or email about it.
I also know he saw her the other weekend when he was out of town because I asked him and he said yes. I also asked if she knew he was married and he said yes. I asked if he had told her I said I wasn't giving up - he said yes. She's even friended my stepson on FB, which caused me to go through the roof when I found out. Funny thing is through my snooping before, I also think she has a BF (the father of her two kids). He still tells me he loves me and kisses me goodbye every morning (so its on the cheek now, but last week it was nothing). This whole thing is too bizarre for me.
I exercise but normally on my way home from work. Watching TV together used to be our thing until things got back and then we were in separate rooms alot. Any suggestions on things I can do by myself even if he's in the room would be great. Thought about getting a jigsaw puzzle to put together. I used to love those.
thanks roroin....
jigsaw puzzle it is! i still urge you to get out and take the occasional walk and break the claustrophobic atmosphere a bit. you might find even a 10 to 15 minute walk can really keep you on your game and allow you to collect your feelings and hold together.
and yes, why not do jigsaw puzzles?
ok - here's my thought on his texting and communication. and it's based on the premise that his relationship with the OW is essentially out in the open. you might say something like this: "H, at this point i have nothing to gain from trying to control or monitor who you communicate with. you have complete power to do what you want and i have to accept that. i also hope that you can understand that the thought of some of those communications can be hurtful to me. for that reason i would like to ask you to keep that in mind and be considerate about when and where you do this."
how does that sound to you? i can explain the rationale if you want, but it might also be self-explanatory.
let me know what you think.
oys2
Oys2 - I kinda already said something like that, but nowhere as sane or as nice. LOL Maybe I can try again?
I think I know the rationale, but from your point of view what's the logic behind doing this?
It's the Land of Bazarro at my house. My husband came in this morning to kiss me goodbye. He's pretty much kept this up the whole time since he told me he wanted out, and since I've known about the affair. But - he's only kissed me on the cheek. Well this morning, it was a peck on the lips. Not reading anything into it, although my body did have an inward reaction. One of my Love Languages is physical touch, and after not ML for months on end, my body is starting to betray me. LOL
I did backslide a little and told him that I still loved him even if he doesn't love me in return. (I know, I know!) He then hugged me fiercely, said he loved me too, and left. He had this strange look on his face (somewhere between being perplexed and in pain). I asked him what the look was for. No answer. But he didn't get upset or anything. Not outwardly anyway.
So I know I shouldn't have said what I said, but GEEZ. I've been holding that in for days. Coming from where we used to hug and kiss all the time (granted it's been a while for that too), it's eating me alive that we aren't doing it now. It was as if I couldn't help myself.
I fell asleep for a couple of hours last night then woke up around 1am thinking just how stupid this whole thing is. He's on the couch and I'm in the bedroom. Neither one of us is asleep, but doesn't want the other person to know. He got up to use the restroom and turn out the lights, that's how I woke up. LOL
We laugh, we joke, we watch TV, then go to bed in separate rooms. SMH It's just too crazy to me! I know the issues are bigger than that, but last night I realized how we really let our marriage fall by the wayside, and literally waved as it fell over the cliff. And now, here we are. I'm cynical today.
So..bring on the 2x4s. *sigh*
RoRoinMD,
No 2x4 needed. You're human and you demonstrated that. IMO a 2x4 is for someone who keeps getting the same advice over and over, keeps ignoring it and doing the same destructive things, then keeps posting on the board like they never got the advice in the first place and wonder why they keep getting the same bad reactions!
Your H's unexpected kiss is one of the peaks on the roller coaster. Know that tonight he may be cold and withdrawn. Often the WAS will "try on" being nice or affectionate to see how it feels. Then, they will fear you will interpret their actions to mean that everything is going to be OK and they'll retreat again. Expect this and don't let it bother you. Many folks on this board have lived through lots of hot and cold. It's part of the journey.
Accuray
Accuracy - I am so not tall enough for this roller coaster. UGH!
I'd be lying if I said it didn't feel good to know I at least still deserved a kiss on the lips. Sad, huh? This whole thing has really done a number on my self-esteem.
I didn't interpret it to mean anything actually. Which I guess is a total 180 for me. If this had happened before, I would have been pursuing all day (calling and e-mailing him saying I love you, I want us to work, blah, blah, blah). None of that today!
Good for you. Start pulling back and establish some boundaries with him. He's got an OW. He can't have you both.
Good for you. Start pulling back and establish some boundaries with him. He's got an OW. He can't have you both.
Ain't that the truth!
hi roroin
regarding this statement/phrasing:
first, you are acknowledging that he has all the power to do whatever he wants, but all the responsibility as well. when you get too involved in trying to control or monitor these EAs or PAs your partner finds it easier to use those efforts as a shield for their own responsibility.
secondly, you are essentially using the friend or acquaintance standard and saying, "please be thoughtful to me because we are sharing space with each other". it reminds him of something he should know: what he's doing is hurting another person - namely you. at the same time, though, because you are acknowledging his freedom to do as he chooses, this doesn't come off as a pursuit or control behavior.
if i was in your husband's shoes and someone said this to me, i would feel immature and thoughtless and very uncomfortable with myself.
oys2
....and furthermore!
i agree with accuray. no 2x4 needed. you are doing better than you think. you are building skills, day by day and you have already demonstrated that to "the board" and yourself. you are a skill-building person.
one of those skills is observation of small details. i agree you need to watch yourself so you don't ride too high or low with them, but you also need to look for trends and patterns. and we here can help you with that.
while H is riding this wave of excitement (most waves eventually crash or dissipate) you are quietly building yourself as a person and therefore your appeal as a relational partner as well. it's really better done quietly with little fanfare as you maintain an even-keel, friend-like and non-antagonizing relationship. and a relationship where you work to un-tether yourself from him.
if i had a magic want i would fill you up with self-esteem. would you consider this: making a list of some of the things you have done that have made you feel best about yourself?
oys2
Journaling...
I didn't get much sleep last night because my allergies were acting up. I kept coughing and coulnd't catch my breath. My husband comes rushing in with a glass of water, but I already had a glass on the nightstand. The coughing continues, and he rushes in again to make sure I'm okay. Asks if I need anything - even offered to go the store at 1 am. I think this heightened my anxiety and made me angry (I wanted to yell "You jerk! You want to act like you care how I'm doing NOW? After you've broken my heart into a million pieces." But I didn't). But the anxiety of those thoughts did make my coughing fits worse. So needless to say, I had to sleep sitting up, and didn't get more than a couple of hours of sleep.
onyourside2 - Low self-esteem has always been an issue for me so these kinds of lists are never easy. But here goes:
1. I went back to kickboxing after 3 years off. I'm getting stronger physically. That's going to make me look very hot come summer. ;-)
2. Since the bomb was dropped, I've lost about 15 lbs from not being able to eat. Not good circumstances, but you're looking at someone who couldn't lose 1lb a month, 2 weeks ago.
3. I'm learning to cook from scratch. I could cook before, but most of the stuff came out of a box. I get joy when I see a dish I made come out right, and people get to enjoy it.
That's about all I have right now. I'm tired, which makes my sadness worse today. *Just keep swimming!*
Read this on Molly V.'s thread, and needed to post it here for myself.
1) make changes in yourself that YOU want to make, no matter what
2) face whatever comes w/dignity and grace. You will make it to the other shore...HE's there for you, as we are, and all your friends and family who love you.
I need to remember this on the days like today when I feel like the world is on my shoulders.
But if my h died and I were done grieving, I know I'd be happy again.
If h left me and stayed gone, I know I'd eventually be happy again.
So profound...I need to hear this...OVER, AND OVER AGAIN!
Your consistent changes + sufficient time passing = changes HE can believe in.
You have been given a gift. The gift of TIME under the same roof. Yes it's hard in many ways--tension or stressful...
but it's the 4-5 months you have, to change your ways consistently.
and NOT point them out or highlight them...just make the changes and let them radiate. Believe in the new you and it will show.
You may have to ACT like an Academy Award winner, but you can do it.
Fake it til you make it.
NO pursuing/No guilting/No arguments FOR the marriage...
I need to take more acting classes, because right now I suck at this. I'm still running out of the room so he won't see my tears.
When you operate in fear, you are NOT operating in faith.
If you are a believer, then remember that^^^ statement...and have some faith.
He will guide you. HE will strengthen you and you will survive this crisis.
It's not eternal. It's not fatal. But you must take care of yourself.
Take a breath, say a prayer and believe you will be alright, b/c you will.
a wise man, that 25yearsmic. methinks he's dead on.
ok - roroin - even from your brief posts i count two significant accomplishments. do you see what they are?
oys2
Gotta be honest...I'm having a hard time finding any kind of accomplishments. I think I'm missing something. LOL
hi roroin
you wanted to scream at him....but you did not. that's number 1. the second is you made a list. that's number 2. this may seem small and in a way it is, but in another way it's bigger. it means you are mobilizing and moving in the direction you want to go.
oys2
oys2 - Okay, I see now. What is the saying around here...celebrate the 1%? Or is that just for the WAS?
Journaling...
H is headed to NC for a funeral and to see my SS and in-laws. My sister is coming up tonight, so it'll be good to spend some one on one time with my twin, and not to have an empty house. And with him gone it'll be good not to have to explain why he's been sleeping on the couch. (How does one get him off the couch anyway? GEEZ?)
Last night my H knew I wasn't feeling well, so he offered to bring me some dinner. He also picked up a dress I had in the cleaners when he went to pick up his own stuff. I asked how much it was and said I’d pay him back. He said not to worry about it.
We ate (me at the table, him on the couch of course), and watched some TV. He then got on the laptop in the bedroom and I stayed in the living room watching TV. He then comes almost running into the room saying that he found a new video of one of our favorite artists on the net. And he just stands there like he’s waiting for something. I thought he was just telling me this. Oh no. I then understand he wants me to come watch the video with him. (My husband used to do this all the time, but not so much recently.) So I go in, we watch the video, and start laughing and talking about some other stuff. Once the video is over, I leave the room. As much as I wanted to stay, I know I can’t smother him.
But…here’s where I get into trouble…
This morning as he’s leaving he comes to kiss me goodbye. He leans in and I literally try to suck his lips off. He doesn't pull away. Then leans back, looks at me, kisses me again and hugs me. He says he was sweaty from loading the car, but now he’s really hot. We both walk out into the living room, he comes back to kiss me again, and says I love you. (I did not initiate this...he said it on his own) I say I love you back and then he goes down the stairs saying he needs to stop and get a bottle of water on the way to the train station.
Now I know I was NOT supposed to do that. It’s pursuing, and I'm dead wrong for my actions, but I could not help myself. (Well okay, I probably could have.) I’m seriously in the dry spell from H*LL. I need to pray about this so I either won’t attack him next time I see him, or seek it elsewhere. I know that won’t help the situation at all. It’s just so frustrating. Before everything got really bad, ML was really great between us. Like REALLY great. *sigh*
One other note...my father-n-law (H's stepdad) texted H last night to call him. He told me his stepdad wanted to tell him to make sure he calls his mom. Apparently he hadn't been doing his normal once a week call. (I wonder why?) I was surprised. Anyway, they talk. (He's in his bathroom, and I'm in mine when I hear this conversation. We have two 1/2 baths with a tub separating them. You could hear a fly go by in the other bathroom if you’re in mine.)
He tells his stepdad that everything is okay, and he knows he needs to call more often. His stepdad must have asked if I was coming this weekend, because he said no, she's staying here. I'm just coming for the funeral. They talk some more and get off the phone.
Then I hear sniffling. I'm like is he CRYING? I hear more sniffling. Yes, he is CRYING! I'm thinking to myself What the H*ELL are YOU crying for? Is it because you don't want them to know what you're doing? But I don't really get mad. I actually feel very sorry for him. (Total 180) Because he's really in this by himself. He told me none of his friends know what is going on. He said, how can I tell them this is what I'm doing? (I know...don't believe half of what he says.) I think he may be suffering from a little depression too. But of course, I'm NOT going to tell him that.
He also asked if I had any money and said he would leave me some cash so I’d have enough for the weekend. He didn’t leave any this morning, so I called him to ask about it when I went out to grab lunch. He said he forgot but he’d stop by the house on his way out of town. I said he didn’t have to go out of his way, since I knew he was trying to get an oil change before he left, and that I should be fine for the weekend. He said it wasn’t a problem, and he’d get his oil changed in NC tomorrow if he missed the place. I just said ok. (Normally, I would have kept arguing that he didn’t have to do that. Why can’t I accept when someone wants to do something for me and just let them do it? UGH! Something I need to work on.)
This whole keeping my mouth shut is getting really, REALLY hard. I don't think I've ever not talked about something as long as I have not talking about our R. This is 180 that just might kill me!
I think I may schedule a session with a DB coach for sometime soon. I do have some money saved, and now may be just the right time.
H is on his way to NC. He got off early so he was here when I got home from work. Kinda annoyed me that he didn't call me and tell me he was leaving work early like he used to. But then I remembered where we are in our R, so I swallowed my comment and just smiled/slightly scowled at him. (Slowly but surely, I am going to get better with the no reaction thing.) He pointed out he left money for me on the dining room table. Asked if I needed him to do anything before he left. I said just a couple bags of trash which he took when he left. He hugged and kissed me and said I love you. (For some reason this is bothering me today. I wonder if he's telling the OW he loves her too. GRRR! Gotta stop this kind of thinking!)
On his way out the door, he told me he'd call me when he got down the road. I asked him if that was code for don't call me, I'll call you. He smiled and said no, you can call me. I told him he didn't have to tell me that. He said, I know and laughed.
My Sissie is on her way! YAY! I so need this distraction!
I am finding myself very angry tonight. I keep thinking do I really want to save this marriage with a person who is cheating on me? I know he's still communicating with the OW. But still telling me he loves me. What kind of person does that? And what kind of person does it make me to still love him and want to work it out? Makes me feel desperate, and I don't like it.
Glad he's gone until Sunday. If he was here, I 'd probably be throwing his stuff out into the street. LOL
So you call him a sissy and find his mannerisms feminine now, etc. So do you want to save your M? You're in the early stages yet, so have alot of anger left. Believe me, I know the feeling.
"And what kind of person does it make me to still love him and want to work it out? Makes me feel desperate, and I don't like it. "
No it makes you a person of integrity and the ones with the greater strength. Are you saying that the rest of the LBSs here are desperate and pathetic?
Bond - I didn't say anything about him being a sissy. What he is is unfaithful. I do want to save my M. I'm just having a hard time knowing that right now he's chosen to go elsewhere, and hasn't stopped even though I know now. Yes, it's partially my fault, and a bitter pill to swallow. I'm working on forgiveness. Most days I feel like I have forgiven him. Yesterday wasn't one of those days.
As far as the desperate comment. That was me feeling sorry for myself. It was/is a personal feeling I have, and has no bearing on anyone else's sitch.
"That was me feeling sorry for myself."
Understood. That's why I had to splash some cold reality your way.
Believe me we've all felt the way you have. My W's OM was her boss, twice her age and she'd see him every day. For me that was hard knowing that she chose her job and him over me.
You are doing the right thing which says alot more about you than your H. It is much harder to build something than tear something down.
Just got back from the movies with my sister. We were trying to see "Red Tails" but it was sold out. Ended up seeing "One For The Money". It was pretty good.
H has been texting and calling me to update on the funeral (17 year old distant cousin who got hit by a car) and my SS who had several teeth extracted yesterday. I did call him this morning to check in, and texted him earlier and said I was thinking of him because he was thinking the funeral was going to be bad. He didn't respond but called and apologized saying he was inside the church when he got the message.
Feeling a little better. I lounged pretty much all day and then did some well overdue cleaning. My husband won't know what happened. LOL It felt good though. I think when things started getting really bad with my H, I got depressed and let a lot of stuff go by the wayside. Cleaning today helped me get a little piece of my sanity back. More cleaning tomorrow.
RoRoInMD,
Your H is conflicted -- that's good news! My W said she wanted a D and that was not up for discussion. She didn't kiss me for a long time after that and wouldn't let me hug her at all, I had to go with "butterfly touches" as that's all I could get away with, it was BRUTAL! The fact that he's kissing you and telling you he loves you is great! The fact that you're laughing together is great, that's the best thing you can do right now.
Continue your GAL activities, vent here on the board, do your best not to pursue, and be happy and fun to be around when H is present. You are making progress, you're doing a great job with DB. Keep it up!
Accuray
H called me before church this morning. Quick chat about him visiting family before he leaves.
One of the ladies at church asked me where H was. I told her he was out of town, and to please pray for him. She then tells me she was thinking about him last week and she asked if we were still together. And I lost it. She hugged me and said a quick prayer. She said she thought something was going on. I did eventually pull myself together, but man what a way to start Sunday service!
My Sissie left after church. All alone again. Good and bad. Now I have plenty of time to think about my dismal life with no distractions. YAY ME! :-(
So...I have a dilemma. H is currently sleeping on the couch. Since my sister was coming, he moved his stuff out of the living room, and I moved his pillows back to our bed to "keep up appearances". My question is should I move his pillows and blankets back to the living room? I'm trying to not manipulate the situation, but I am thinking it would not be "keeping the road home smooth" if his bed is literally already made in the living room when he gets home. I also know that if he removes his pillows and blankets from our room on purpose, it will hurt me.
Any ideas?
Still trying to detach, but having a real hard time. My head is telling me that by detaching, I am leaving to door even wide open for the OW. I know this is not necessarily true. Need to find the balance to detach, but not seem uninterested. I keep thinking how is he going to notice my changes if she's calling and emailing all the time. Not doing too good at this...even with GAL
activities. *sigh*
My main idea for you is that you
MUST LOSE THE ANGER, at least in front of him.
It only fuels the negative images he has of you and undermines all your marital efforts.
When he's kind to you, or loving, or shows he's in pain,
Show some empathy and gratitude, not resentment.
OR TRY TO feel it... b/c it's just too negative to put a bad spin on those things.
And it's So not helping you.
I lived in the interior of Alaska for 3 years (w/a newborn and 2 older kids)
and my GAL included
auditioning for community theater and getting roles-met cool new people
stand up comedy
joined a writer's group
volunteered at a woman's shelter
learned to cross country ski, seriously fish, hunt and snowmachine
took an Italian Cuisine class, a class in French Conversation
and a pottery classs (huge 180 for me)
Learned to fly and got my pilot's license
Went skydiving (summer only)
Worked out and got in excellent shape.
Saw a T and got on some ADs for the winter. They helped.
Most of these things cost very little.
The more you focus on GAL and your 180s (what are THEY?)
the easier the detachment will be AND
you may manage your anger and pessimistic (glass is half empty) approach to life.
That would greatly help YOUR happiness and that makes you more attractive.
But heck, being happy is your job and your task and a gift you give yourself.
Forgiveness is a process - but it's FOR YOU
b/c no one who is holding onto her pain/anger, can be happy.
Holding onto anger b/c you think it hurts the other person -
is like lighting yourself on fire to get smoke in their eyes.
What specific changes in yourself would YOU like to make?
Do you want THIS MAN and marriage, or are you simply not wanting to "lose"?
I ask this not to offend, but it seems to me that you agree you mistreated him- and that you have many personal issues not related to him.
But he's also been flirting or more, with OWs for most of the r. You accepted that and NOT ML for months...
So do you want HIM, or do you just not want to be alone or feel rejected?
this question matters...read the Div Remedy book again, it really helps. I see new things in it all the time and I've read it probably 5 times.
((( )))
25 – Thank you for responding. No offense taken.
I have not shown any anger since 2 Fridays ago when we actually discussed the A. I have actually been more gracious and kind since that night. Which is a total 180 for me. Ordinarily, I would ignore him, or be sharp in my words to him, and I haven’t done that one time. I know he’s expecting it. I told him I forgive him, and I meant it. I keep praying that God will release my anger. I probably should find a T and go talk about it. I just don’t want to talk about the past anymore. And that’s most T seem to want to do.
My GALs – kickboxing, Curves, church, and hanging with my friends. Most of my friends are either married or in serious relationships, so we don’t get to hang out a lot. I actually spend a lot of time by myself. Which is probably not good. I am a part of a couple of Meetup groups, but one is for wives and I just can’t handle going to their activities…not now anyway. I plan to look for some more soon. I was also encouraged by someone at work to look into voiceover work because she liked the sound of my voice. So I plan on beginning the research for that soon.
My 180s – Be sure to speak with a softer tone (not just to my husband, but with everyone); Ensure my facial expressions relay what I’m really feeling; Let stuff GO and don’t sweat the small stuff; Actively listening when my husband talks – this includes eye contact and waiting for him to finish his thought before I barge in; My H also likes to be greeted when he comes in the house (He mentioned this as another one of his issues). This may be pursuing, but this is something I plan on doing because I was not doing it before. I won’t go overboard, but I do know that if I don’t do this, things go downhill from there. So any ideas on how to do this, but not pursue would be great. (Not sure it’s possible, but I’m open to suggestions.)
My main goal right now is to be genuinely happy again. That was one of my H issues. He says I never seem happy. I think that’s because I didn’t know what to do when things would go wrong in our marriage, so I went into a deep depression. So I’ve been making myself get out and exercise. I don’t make it every day yet like before, but a couple of days are better than nothing.
And yes, I want to save my marriage to THIS man. Of course I don’t want to feel rejected or be alone. But, that’s not my motivation for saving my marriage. I genuinely love this man, even with everything that is going on. I accepted all the drama because that’s what I was taught to do. In my family, you don’t give up on your marriage. I probably didn’t handle it correctly (clearly because we are here now). If I had tried DB before, I may not be in the place I am now. I seriously thought something was medically wrong with my H, and that’s why we were not ML. He had been having issues before, so I honestly thought that was what the problem was. Stupid me.
I actually got both DR & DB books out last night and plan on reading through them both again today.
Seriously, thanks 25 for your comments. They give me pause to think about what I really want.
25 has posted a lot to my thread about detaching and letting go of the anger (something you and I appear to have in common
) Most of that info is on my 3rd and 4th threads- please check them out- I re-read them when I start to get upset again. (there's too much to repost here).
The 180s and GAL activities are key in keeping yourself sane and giving your brain something else to think about (even if it's only for a few hours.) It's been 2 months since my bomb, and I'm *just now* really trying to GAL... so I know it's hard to get started and to focus solely on something for yourself.
I too thought: "If I had tried DB before, we might not be here"... but all we can do is accept that we are trying now and move forward. 25 has told me: "be the best you can be from this day forward"... I try to remember that everyday.
Purg, I'll go hunt down your threads.
Strange - After answering 25, I was ravenous. I have not been hungry in DAYS! I also finished some more cleaning, had a snack, and took a nap.
H texted and said he was visiting family and friends (he actually saw a long lost relative) and would be on his way after that. I responded Cool! Enjoy your time with your friends and went back to cleaning. Planning on cooking dinner tonight. I haven't been able to bring myself to cook since the first bomb dropped.
Little progress, but progress still.
hello again roroin,
you have some very good contributors posting with you. i'll do my best to uphold their standards!
going back a few days. yes, 1% becomes 2% becomes 3% and etc. and just in the days since then (last friday) i see more and more tangible examples of progress and successful incorporation of DB philosophy and strategies. and i do agree that reading and re-reading DR until it becomes absolute second nature is very wise.
but also consider this. you are a quick study as they say. and don't judge yourself too much when you don't apply the DB strategy in the way you like. you are training yourself and this takes time. you are progressing and succeeding!
i challenge you to go back over your posts since i last posted on friday and see how many references you made to acting differently than you would have in the past. then let's compare lists. i'd like to comment on one of those. your H called you in to watch something with him. you went in, you shared, you laughed and then you left. utterly brilliant, my dear, utterly brilliant!
i tend to agree with the poster who thinks this shows he is in a state of confusion or mixed feelings. if that's true, it means you are in the mix - more so than in situations where there are no such displays of mixed feelings. if he's in the bathroom crying about what's happening in his life and marriage, this may show he is feeling guilty (as well as potentially thrilled by OW). if so, it's so smart to let him ruminate with his own mixed feelings rather than either over-pursuing him and/or scolding and attacking him. just be the kind of person that no one in their right might would feel entitled to betray.
best to you and way to go, really!
oys2
Oys2 – thanks for your comments. I’m trying really hard to GAL. It’s so hard sometimes. I will read back over my posts. I have a hard time giving myself compliments. Maybe this will help. I still don’t feel like I’ve gotten the DB principles down. I really need to sit down and read and highlight. I’m good at highlighting. LOL
So, I took a day off the boards yesterday. Because I am seriously living in the Land of Bazarro. My H came home Sunday night around 11pm. We sat and talked for a while, and he was extra talkative about the weekend. He got to see some high school friends and was EXTRA excited. Told me I just HAVE to meet one of them. (I wanted to ask when, before or after we split, but I didn’t. LOL)
I then did something I said I wouldn’t do. I asked him if he had worn his wedding ring at all the whole weekend. Then he proceeds to tell me how he can’t find it and how upset he was and that he’d been looking for it all weekend. I said YOU LOST IT? He gave me this fearful look and said he thought it might be somewhere in his car. I just said Wow, and didn’t say anything else about it.
Then my trip to the Land of Bazarro gets even crazier…so I take a shower and I am basically hiding out in my bathroom because I don’t want to have to deal with the whole pillow/blanket/couch debacle. I hear him moving around in the bedroom, but don’t come out until he’s gone. I come out and say “Oh you got your pillows?” He says, “Yes.” I say, “I only did that so my sister would not ask me a bunch of questions.” He says, “Its fine.” Then I lose myself for a minute and say/yell slightly, “Well, clearly it’s not fine if you’re still sleeping on the couch.”
I instantly felt bad. There went my DB skills out the window. But there wasn’t anything I could do then. Not at 1:30 AM. So…guess who comes padding in to the room about 20 mins later? I didn’t say a word…just moved to my side and went to sleep. Or tried to go to sleep. Because my H then proceeds to cuddle with me. (This is a big thing for him that he loves and we hadn’t really been doing this at all. I never said much about it though.) I tense up for half a second and then relaxed. Told myself to breath and just go to sleep. But I didn’t get much sleep at all. I was too busy up thinking what in the world is going on? And fighting for covers, which honestly I hadn’t missed. LOL
Same thing last night. I came home from kickboxing, and he was his same talkative self. We watched a documentary on an R&B group we love, and then both went to bed around the same time. Here comes the cuddling again. We both tossed and turned literally all night. Then this morning things got even stranger. When we first got together, we would do this thing that we called our “good morning”. And I could always tell when my H wanted his “good morning”. Well, I got that same vibe this morning, but didn’t make one move. It was the strangest thing. He hasn’t touched me like that in MONTHS. And now this.
Of course in my head, I’m hearing Wendy Williams say, “Oh no you didn’t!” LOL At first I was FURIOUS. Really, after all this time, here you are now? UGH! But I just laid there, still as a church mouse, with his arm draped across me. Finally, we both had to get up or we were going to be late for church. I think he was really waiting on me to make the first move. Doing so would have been a true 180 for me because I never really initiated before. Well I did, just not a lot. But…with all this OW stuff, I felt this would have been a mistake to do this today. Even as bad as I wanted to do it. Maybe tomorrow I’ll feel different. *shrug*
I took a long time, and many words to say that I still don’t know what’s going on in my M. But, I am feeling better about things. At least today I am. One day at a time. Today I woke up thinking, I just don’t want to talk about H. I don’t want to think about H and our M. I just want to live today. And so far, so good.
Wow- sounds like you did have an interesting weekend/evening! I'm impressed that you kept yourself 'together' when he crawled in the bed with you- I think I might have jumped all over my H if he ever did that now because I miss the affection so much. Isn't it strange when the WAS acts 'as if' nothing is wrong?! Very confusing for us LBS. I struggle to not over think and analyze what his 'strange' actions mean... looks like you're doing a good job not dwelling on it.
RO said: "I took a long time, and many words to say that I still don’t know what’s going on in my M. But, I am feeling better about things. At least today I am. One day at a time. Today I woke up thinking, I just don’t want to talk about H. I don’t want to think about H and our M. I just want to live today. And so far, so good."
This is very positive thinking! It's really hard to get to that mindset, but if you can stay there- its the best thing for your sanity!!
Purg - It took everything in me to NOT jump on him. LOL Another 180 is not saying anything at all. This whole process has made me so much calmer (AKA in denial) than I used to be. The small stuff just doesn't seem important anymore.
I'm also still struggling with the overthinking and analyzing. It's something I have to constantly work on. Hence the thought - not thinking about that today.
H just called out of the blue to see how my day was. We normally talk at least once a day, but it had been me calling for the last few weeks. If I go back, I'm sure its been longer than that, I just hadn't noticed. (This is pursuing I know, but I also know how my H works. He used to like to talk to me at least once during the day, just to check in.)
Work was crazy and I just didn't feel like calling today. So he called right before left to go home just to chat and tell me what he planned to do when he got home (work out)? Especially when he'll probably have his daily after work call with the OW?
I'm SO confused. Someone help me out here...
On my way home from working out, I called to see if H wanted me to grab him something to eat since I was picking something up for myself. He did. Thanked me for asking. As I'm walking up the sidewalk to the house about 20 mins later, he comes outside and proceeds to help me bring everything in.
He used to do this when we first got together. Not so much anymore.
Please note: The only way he would have known I was even coming was if he was waiting for me, due to the location of our parking lot.
Has yet another alien taken over my H's body? What is really going on? I'm afraid another bomb of some sort is coming or something.
Okay, I need some advice...
One of my friends checked on me this morning to see how I was. She is going through her own marriage troubles. Her H cheated has cheated before, but they stayed together. She found out he had been corresponding through email with someone else recently, and she told him she wanted to separate. So they have been separated for a few months.
So she asks me what is going on with H and I. I tell her we haven't talked since the other week about our M, but I've been trying to GAL and just stay busy. I tell her I know H is still talking to the OW. She tells me I need to have a conversation with H, because I can't stay in limbo forever. Which I agree with. And that he's still disrespecting me and I should not let that happen.
But honestly, I just don't think now is the time to have another conversation about our M. And following DB principles, that is correct. But...the A is still going on (to what extent I don't know since she's in another state, but probably still by phone, email, & Twitter). My friend told me I was in denial, which is probably true to some degree.
I need some help here. I told my friend I was okay for now dealing with my situation the way it is. I know if the A doesn't end, there will come a time when I have to issue a "her or me" ultimatum. I'm just not feeling that now is the time for that. I still don't know if he's really moving out in a couple of weeks or not. He hasn't mentioned it all again, which I know doesn't mean it's not going to happen. But I don't want to push him further away if there's any chance he's thinking about staying.
I'm at a loss as to what to do...
Those not familiar with DB do not understand what we're trying to do. I completely agree with you on not wanting to be in limbo, but if you do bring up your M, it will likely push H further away. I would advise against it, as hard as it may seem. You are not in denial, you know what is going on.
You need to re-read the 37 rules as a reminder. I need to do that every so often myself. Try not to think about what he is doing and focus on YOURSELF! Do NOT call him to talk about his day. If he calls you, be friendly, but try to end the conversation before he does.
What are you doing to GAL?
Thanks nh. That's what I was thinking to. Not having the conversation.
I know I need to not call him. It's such a hard habit to break. At least yesterday I didn't, and he called me. But I have been working on ending conversations first.
GAL: Kickboxing, Curves, DB boards, and liturgical dance at church. It's getting easier to get out of bed in the morning most days. But some days, it's all I can do to get up and get dressed. I tend to overload myself with activities, and can burn out quickly, and become a very irritable individual. Hence, another issue my husband has.
Those are great GAL activities! I used to do cardio kickboxing and felt so awesome afterwards. Do you actually get to kick and punch? What a great stress reliever that would be!!!
Don't do too much if it burns you out. Or better, try to think of things that are not as physically challenging like going to the library to read a book, or to a book store or cafe where you can sit down, have some coffee or tea and read a few pages.
Have you tried yoga or meditation? Or reading zen or buddhist quotes or books? I find that there are a lot of "teachings" around self-control, inner piece, etc. I try to remember to look up a few things when I can.
Hang in there! There will be days where you'll feel better than others, but with time you will start finding your inner piece. Think about what YOU want, how you can make YOURSELF better. Don't waste too much energy thinking about what your H is doing, thinking or saying. No matter what you say right now, he will not "hear" what you have to say. Try to distance yourself while still remaining "pleasant" and "friendly". It's easier said than done, but just try to immediately start thinking "DB" when you see your H, or when your mind starts to wander.
hi roroin -
don't be too confused. this is what happens when you wait and don't initiate. please put this small experience in your memory banks!
more later!
oys2
ok, roroin.....here it comes
damn, you are getting good at this. and i agree with NH - no no no on conversations about the relationship.
all these crazy mixed feelings you are experiencing? totally normal. the impulses to go against DB strategies? totally normal. the learning curve where your behaviors are mixed? totally normal, if not better than average on your part.
look at the data when you stay back and don't initiate. look at the data when you do your 180s. it all works, just like physics! and even as all of this is going on, you are working on you, learning you can do positive things even in the most difficult circumstances. learning some grace under pressure.
i would say keep it up and let's see how things go for the next week or so. the thing i find most encouraging is all of the things your H is initiating with you. and most of the time, you've really made hay. you've just had fun and then left it at that.
keep up the GAL stuff and build, build, build. no one can ever take that away from you.
rock on,
oys2
Journaling…
First, the past couple of mornings, H and I have been intimate. Since moving back to the bed, H has literally been my 2nd skin at night. We’re not all the way to ML yet, but man, so not the dry desert either. Kinda crazy! Normally, I would not have gone through with this, but I thought, WTH, he’s MY H! Not sure if this was a good decision or not, but gotta say I wasn’t as wound up as I normally am. LOL Anyway, today, I passed up on my “good morning”. My H was a little bewildered, understandably. I’m the one who has been so upset about us not ML or anything close to it. But I just rolled over and went back to sleep.
Just to be clear, yes, I have thought about him having his cake and eating it too. And normally, I would be raging and all that about the OW. But you know what? I could care less. If I want to sleep with my H then, *insert appropriate curse word here* I will. I honestly have not let myself even begin to get attached with all of this intimacy. (A serious 180 for me…guess I’m guarding my heart just in case) And maybe this isn’t DB, but I’ve spent a lifetime not doing stuff because I was afraid of what people might think or say. I want to live for ME now! I’m the W, not the OW. Can you tell I feel really strongly about this? LOL
So, he comes in this morning to say goodbye and kisses me. I don’t say anything but that his new shirt looks nice. He stands there like he’s waiting on something. Then he realizes I will NOT be saying I love you and leaves. I get dressed and go to get in my car. As I’m waiting on my car to heat up, I get a “Have the best day ever! Love you” text message from him. Normally, I’m the one sending the text messages! I was wavering on whether I would today or not (I know, I know – it’s pursuing). But I didn’t have to. (See oys2 & nh, I do listen occasionally!) I responded “Thanks. Have a great day as well. Love you too.” Now if I can just make it through the day without emailing or calling him, I’ll be good to go.
On another interesting note – my church is having a couple’s breakfast this Saturday. I forwarded my H the notice on Monday, and said I would send a response back. He didn’t say anything. So, last night one of my friends (W of a couple we hang out with occasionally) sent me a text about getting together on the 11th for a Valentine’s Day dinner. I mentioned it to him because the H had already left him a message about getting together on FB. I told him I would tell them we couldn’t go. He says, “We can go.” I stop what I’m doing, turn around and say, “Are you sure?” He says, “Yes we can go.” I just said okay, and left it at that. What is happening HERE?
Had a rough morning with some sadness creeping in, but I managed to pull myself together. Sometimes I feel like my brain is shutting down. I get so tired and sleepy if I think about my situation too long. Is this normal?
Had to tell this...
I said I was going to try not to call or email H today. Well, I was going to email him just to say hey. (I know...pathetic!) I had the window up and everything in my email, about to start typing. And then the phone rings. It's him calling me!
We chatted about his day and mine, about some house and family stuff, and then I got off the phone.
I think there may be something to this DB stuff after all! LOL
oh ye of little faith!
the gods are on your side roroin! keep it up. you are really getting to see these principles work. and don't pound on yourself. you are really ahead of the game in terms of the speed you are learning and applying this stuff.
way to go!
oys2
OMG I had the same thing happen last week when I was laying down and thinking about my W.
There's something to say about a psychic connection between H and W.
When I got home today, I felt such an overwhelming sadness. So I had about a 20 min cry in the bathroom. I just keep asking myself how my life got like this? I managed to pull myself together long enough to cook dinner. I've been hiding out in my bedroom because I don't want to lose it in front of H. He didn't hear me earlier. At least I don't think so. He's already been in here once asking if I'm ok and if I need anything. We SO need a bigger house!
And here I thought I was doing good today. *sigh*
Feeling some kind of way still. Tonight it took everything in me not to say anything to H about the OW. I think my sadness has turned to anger tonight. Time to say a quick prayer about it and go to bed.
Tomorrow is coming! Thank God.
So today is a somewhat better day. Although, I kind of went "dim" last night without intending to. Or at least as dim as you can get living in a two bedroom condo with your WAS.
And I think it might have made my H think I was in a bad mood or something. I've been reading on here that giving your WAS space is important. Well, the condo we share isn't that big, so it's either we're watching TV together or in two separate rooms (which has been an issue in our M). Anyway, I decided to give him some space last night and watched TV in our bedroom. Plus, I was an emotional wreck. Now, for the past couple of weeks, we've watched TV together almost every night, and from my point of view have gotten along great. We've laughed and talked, but not about R stuff. But, I didn't want to appear like I was smothering him or anything by being in the living room all the time with him.
Well, we hardly talked last night. Just when we had to - excuse me when walking past each other down the hall, are you going to eat dinner, etc. Then he gets into bed, and turns his back to me. He's been back in our bed since Sunday night, and we've been cuddling every night since. But not last night.
I know I was in a sad mood last night, and was trying not to show him, but I think I let that set the tone for the evening, and he mistook that for me not wanting to be bothered. (Which has also occured happened between us in a not so nice way)
Any advice on the giving space when you live in the same house when too much time apart was an issue?
How do you know he mistook it?
labug - Good question. Are you trying to say I'm mind reading? ;-)
He kept asking me if I was okay, if I needed anything, was I not feeling well, etc. Then when I did go in to ask him a question, you would have thought I pulled sunshine out of my pocket with the way he perked up. LOL
Maybe I'm reading to much into this...I just want to make sure I'm doing this right. Overachiever that I am. *smirk*
Yes, the old mind reading trick...
Let it go, the longer you do this the easier it gets and everyone has slip ups. Mind reading will drive you bat-sh!t crazy if you let it.
When he asked you those questions what was your response?
I just told him I was fine and that my allergies were acting up (which they were). But I just realized as I was typing this, that I was not looking him in the eye when I was talking to him. That's one of my 180s. To actually take an interest when he's talking. That's one of his issues. And I totally was NOT doing that.
Okay, I so get it now.
Thanks labug for putting this into perspective for me. I feel like I'm getting wound too tightly again. Gonna leave work early today and enjoy the sunshine. I think I need it. I think I might need to talk to someone about my anxiety too. It's beginning to be a little too much.
"Are you ok?" can be just asking if you're emotionally stable but more often than not it translates into "are you upset with me?" and "are you enjoying your time with me?". I got this question all the time with my W when I was unusually quiet or depressed and not showing it. Just a thought. But sometimes the spouse needs to know it's not them it's you.
If you're really depressed and can't shake it, then it might be time to get yourself on some prescription anti-depressants like SSRSs or mood stabilizers. You can go the homeopathic route with SAM-E or 5HTP, and a little extra caffeine but these choices are less potent and you can develop a tollerance much faster.
Even on those you will need to distract yourself from the negative thoughts and make yourself happy. If you can find it in you to 180 as soon as possible and show him a wonderful and charming you that's 110% better I promise you he will want to open up a little more and be friendlier. But in your situation you need to get out more because there's nowhere you can sulk in private. So go to a movie by yourself and cry your eyes out when you need to or join free classes for tango or martial arts once a week to get all your pent up feelings worked out physically.
When you return only show him a woman that's he will want to be around. Make it hard for him to leave that incredible person you really are and not this depressed mess that he wants to get away from.
NS - I think you are right about the "Are you ok?" thing.
I will look up the supplements you mentioned. I am ok most days around him. I think I need to try to stick to my workout schedule as possible. But lately, it's all I can do to get out of bed.
Things still feel off in the house. Maybe it's me and my PMS. LOL Just hanging at home tonight. Was going to the movies but my allergies have me feeling like crap. :-(
I feel your pain on that. It's not so much the depression that hits hardest, it is the waiting and delayed gratification that kills. The only thing you can take comfort in knowing is that it hits them just as hard if not harder than you, though your spouse may not show it.
BE KIND TO YOURSELF AND VERY FORGIVING AT THIS TIME.
If you need to stay in bed all day then do so but at a time and place where your H can't see you hurting. Try a friends house or a cheap hotel if he is home. And at this time if you are too upset to leave the house (like me today) then focus on building a suportive atmosphere by only watching comedies and movies with a strong female role that doesn't remind you of your sitution. No breakups, divorcing, or anything else that may trigger you to cry. I for instance watch fight club about every day.
Here's few ideas I came up with that really helped me and I've passed on to people in divorce groups. Try playing the dollar game where you give your self $1 for every day you have good contact with your H. And here's the kicker, it could be no contact at all. So long as he isn't fighting with you I consider that good contact. You may also want to keep a contact diary to see where you need to make changes in the way you talk, text, and email him. Little tip... there are dating books just for this. Focus on improving your looks even more when your depressed.
And stay away from junk food and alcohol at this time! Trust me on this, as a person diagnosed with a depressve disorder I get my downs a lot and find myself wanting to eat sweets and starches when I'm not hungry because I "need" that rush of serotonin to feel better. This happens especially at night and can cause rapid weight gain in the blink of an eye. That is where 5HTP or L-Tryptophan come in handy and a dose of whatever medicine your are prescribed will really come in handy. I suspect you may get put on a Selective Serotonin Reuptake Inhibitor (SSRI) which helps slow down the consumption of serotonin in your brain. With these you need to take them 6hrs before bed and monitor your potential loss of sex drive.
I pulling for you RR!
In general, this is very good advice, NSweet. However, before using OTC items like 5HTP or L-Trypotopha, CHECK WITH YOUR DOCTOR, and ESPECIALLY if you are on any other medication.
Thanks NS & dbmod for the info.
Well last night ended up ok. I got worst so ended up lounging on the couch. H was attentive and helpful. Watched some TV and went to bed. H initiated some intimate contact this morning, but still no ML.
I had an extreme episode of dizziness this afternoon. Ended up sprawled on my living room floor. Scared H to death as he was on his way out to grab us some food. He helped me get myself together and has been attentive all day.
I did backslide and ask him if his mistress knew he was taking care of me. He repeated "Taking care of you?" I said taking care of me today? He just looked at me and didn't say anything.
I've been so good about no initiating R talk. Its been building up and I had to let some of it out. I feel like such an idiot at times for loving him when he's calling and texting someone else. Where did the man I married go? *sigh*
Man, I could really use some advice from anyone whose WAS is/was living at home with the OP in the picture while you were DBing.
Sometimes I feel like I'm fighting a losing battle.
Journaling...
Still sick. I think I may have the flu for the first time in my entire life. NOT GOOD. H is still being helpful.
Read through some old posts on here last night. They didn't leave me hopeful. In fact, I started feeling like why am I even bothering with this DB stuff? It doesn't appear to work very well. I'm still not all the way out of my funk, but hopefully another nap and some meds will help.
From what I've read, I know it's a good sign H is still in the house (and bedroom). We've been getting along better than we were before. But there doesn't seem to be much guidance on what to do when the WAS is still in the home, there's no arguing or coldness, AND there's an OP involved.
I've read that I should not be a doormat. I get that. But if arguing and all that was a part of the old marriage, shouldn't kindness and tenderness be a part of the DB plan?
I mean I know the OW is still in the picture, even if she is in another state. It's been said that no R can take place while the A is still going on. I can see why now. But how should the LBS react to this while still living with the WAS?
I've been told not to confront and to set boundaries. But what if those boundaries (i.e, no sexual contact) was any issue in the marriage?
I'm so confused today. I thought I was doing okay with DBing. Then I second guess myself and wonder if I'm doing this right.
I have no idea if anything I've just written makes any sense at all. Just needed to get my thoughts out.
i want to bump this and ask the same for my similar sitch. my waw has ongoing ea with om, text and facebook messages mostly, some calls and sees him once a week at work. we still coparent in the same house, share a bed...but more like roommates. it seems like the only reasons she is staying right now is she is part time till aug. and could not really afford to be on her own now and she wants to minimize impact of seperation or divorce on kids by doing it over the summer.
so same, similar question as above, do i try to value and appreciate that we are still in same house and have time, vs. my feeling that waw is set on her course and has her vision of what life will be like...and will not see or consider the chance of us working it out until she sees the color of the grass on the other side or feels what life out on her own is really like.
can't help you with having S still in the home. i guess there's a plus and minus to every situtation.
have you read wenitiki's story? she's in the MLC boards these days. very inspiring. her H still at home while OW in the picture. i really admire how strong she has become.
i hope you get better soon (flu wise). hang in there!
Thanks BF. I have started reading wenikitiki's threads. They have given me some insight.
There are pluses and minuses. Guess I'll have to wait and see if he still plans to move at the end of the month. Until then - zipped lips. Kickboxing is going to come in handy! :-)
I think if the WAS is still at home your job is to appear as desirable as possible. (Hard to do when you are sick) But when you are well every time he sees you, you should be well groomed and on your way to some fun activity. Also maybe you can get more into cooking while at home or playing an instrument, maybe painting. Just hobbies that H would find attractive.
It would be exhausting but its what you need to do. Make them a fool to want someone else.
Okay, so I just sort of lost it.
I went to the store to grab something to eat. Mostly to get out of the house. Note to self: Driving while having the flu is not a good idea. I came back and H was just acting weird. So I asked him if my being sick had kept him from talking to his mistress. He says he wanted to make sure I was ok. I asked so you haven't talked to her? He says he has, but making sure I was okay and getting better was more important. I mumbled I guess it was. He asked me to repeat what I said. I told him that in a way I guess it was important to him. He then gets busy getting the trash together to take outside. I go take a shower because I am pissed!
Does he really expect for me to act like the OW doesn't exist? I want to tell him the sneaking around he's still doing makes him look pitiful. But I won't. I've already said too much as it is. This keeping my mouth closed thing isn't working so well. Why do I feel like I'm the one who is losing their mind?
I may just stay in my room for the rest of the night. Getting upset is making me feel worse and cough more. And I'm sure we won't talk much more for the rest of the night. So much for Super Bowl Sunday.
Hi,
I am a newcomer and have been desperately waiting to post in this forum. Please forgive me if I don't know all the abbreviations yet, but I need to get this off my chest, and I will try to be as concise as possible.
My husband and I have been married for 3 years and we have no children. This is the second marriage for both of us. When we originally got together, I he was already divorced, but I was legally separated, but still technically married. He knew this but we agreed to continue to see each other casually and started a bonafide relationship once my divorce was final.
Since we have been together (9 years in each other's lives, 6 years living together, 3 years married) I thought our relationship and subsequent marriage was fine. We had our ups and downs and arguments, but nothing that I felt would have me here right now.
My H is an entrepreneur and I had a corporate job until about 2 years ago. Since his business has been unsteady, I have been the breadwinner most of the time. I didn't have a problem with this, but I think it was taking a toll on his ego. In his past relationships and marriage, he took care of everything and I believe a lot of his self worth is tied to what he does for his significant other.
I have been growing increasingly frustrated because even though I was holding down the fort, he wasn't expressing any appreciation at all. Resentment set in and we were fighting like crazy. He is a very mild mannered and quiet guy and he has repeatedly told me that he doesn't like to argue, so he would rather say nothing than to argue which in turn infuriated me even more. Some of our interactions were not healthy (but never physical).
Fast forward to about 5 months ago, after the surprising death of his aunt, he announced to me that he needed to make a change in his life, that he wasn't happy in the marriage and hadn't been for awhile, that he actually "checked" out of the marriage back in '09 (never mentioned this to me) and that he wanted a divorce. He went on the tell me that every since we got together back in 03 that he was feeling guilty. He stated that God had spoke to him several time telling him that "he knows better than to deal with that woman" He said because he wanted to be with me, he ignored what he felt he heard and pursued me anyway. He also said that he subsequently married no only because he loved me, but he also felt that by "legitimizing" our union, that would somehow make it right with God.
He is now telling me that he feels because he was disobedient to go all those years ago that he felt our marriage has been "cursed" and that is why his business, and our marriage has not grown or prospered. He has NEVER told me about his until now. He said the reason why he didn't say anything was because he wanted to try to fix it on his own and he didn't want to hurt my feelings by suggesting that I was somehow a curse to him. So he kept it to himself while silently hoping that the marriage would self correct.
After he told me, he seems so convicted in leaving. I keep asking him to give me the opportunity to help him address the issues because I feel like I was fighting against a silent enemy that I didn't know was there.
He stated that he felt he gave it enough time in his mind because he has been tormented with guilt and depression about it for so many years. He is at his wits end and he wants out immediately. I feel hurt and devastated because I feel that he is not taking my feelings into considerations. I know that I have done things in the marriage that have made his feel emasculated, but I still feel like I don't deserve to be blindsided by this.
I really feel like he is going through a mid life crisis brought on by the unexpectedly death in his family, He feels like he is failure in every aspect of his life, including the marriage and he feels like he has no control of anything in his life. I think he feels that this is one thing he can control and decide on his own (and he feels justified in is decision) and one less thing that he has to feel disappointed about.
I love my husband very much and I want to save our marriage. He has moved out this week and it's killing me. I have prayed, read forums, the bible scriptures and everything else I can get my hands on to keep me motivated. I think he is so angry with himself and where he is in his life that he can't be rational.
I am trying to stay prayerful, but it is really wearing on me which is why I am truly a "woman on the verge".
Please help me!
Hi Wotv, sorry you find yourself here. You probably want to create a separate thread for you, so you will get specific advice to your situation.
Have you read Divorce Remedy or Divorce Busting? If not, run do not walk to your nearest bookstore or library.
RR,
I know it's a little late but...
You've already changed his expectation of you and and made great progress with the 180. He knows you're a great woman and care for him and won't push him out the door for the A. So go dark now. Let him begin to miss what he took for granted and see over the next few months the OW can't/wont do that for him.
Hi RoRoinMD,
Thanks for your response. I have not read either book yet, but I plan to pick them up sometime this week.
I will create a separate thread because I really need some support from this community in additional to what I am doing for myself spiritually.
H keeps asking me what time it is and shouldn't I take some medicine. I asked him if he was trying to put me to sleep? He laughed and said no. I said it sure sounds like it. He said well you keep coughing. It's annoying me. I'm sure its mostly PMS so I'm going to stay in the bedroom where I've been most of tonight. Otherwise, I'll probably say something I shouldn't again.
Sometimes I just want to shake him and say WAKE UP! Don't you see what you're doing? UGH!
Home sick today. Really hoping I feel better soon.
So last night ended up ok. Both in separate rooms and it felt weird but at this point everything does.
Another 180 for me - H asked me to schedule a dentist appt for him when I went on Friday. I did - for today. He was supposed to call and reschedule if he couldn't make it. He forgot, and this morning I kept my lips zipped and didn't mention it to him. On his way to work, he calls and asks me to call them and reschedule for him, because "he's driving and can't look up the number". Ordinarily I would have made a big deal about this, but I didn't. I just said Sure. My tone wasn't the greatest because he apologized, I guess for asking me. I quickly changed my tone, said don't worry about it. Called and canceled the appt and told the receptionist that he would call back to reschedule. Relayed the info to H and he said thank you. I said no problem and hung up.
Before I definitely would have badgered him to death about this. Not today. I'm working on not sweating the small stuff. Some days are better than others.
RoRoinMD,
Sorry to hear you are sick, and that you are feeling skeptical of DB. It's not guaranteed to work, but it's the BEST thing you can do right now. Pursuing will not work, nor will anger. Reading through your posts, you're having a hard time detaching and tend to fling barbs at H about his OW. That's normal and human, and it probably makes you feel better in the moment, but will make you feel worse longer term. H also is going to feel worse about it and your going to spin up a negative cycle where he'll want to avoid you fearing another barb, and his avoidance will make you more anxious and resentful, so you're more likely to attack. That's a death spiral as you can see that leads right down the drain.
You need to try to work on breaking that cycle by holding back on the comments. Keep telling yourself that H is not responsible for your happiness until you believe it.
Here's a suggestion: living with WAS with OP involved is painful because you badly want to control that situation and cannot. Find something you can control -- start a challenging fitness program and set a goal for yourself. Measure your progress weekly and keep a log. This has multiple benefits: (1) you will feel in control of your health, (2) you will become more attractive to H, (3) you'll meet new people and have more reasons to get out of the house.
I understand that you're doing exercise classes now -- if you're not adding goals and goal tracking, do that. It does help!
Accuray
Thanks Accuray. Most days I do pretty good with holding back comments. I told myself last night NO MORE! Keep your lips zipped!
Detaching has been extra hard for me. But I resolved last night to do it finally. I have to for my own sanity. I just need to figure out how to detach without shutting down completely.
I will be focusing in me and my health. It's something that has been pushed to the wayside for far too long. And you're right. It is something I can control.
H called to check on me a couple of hours ago, but I was asleep. Just said get some rest and I said ok and hung up. Probably should not call back and wait for him to call, right?
RR,
Seems like he still cares for you or else he wouldn't be doing all those little things for you. Be sure to show a little appreciation in return but dial it down a bit. Men need to feel like they are good providers or else they get their feelings hurt. A simple "thank you" goes a long way.
And honey, stop bringing up the OW! Just stop it! Each time you do you're only hurting him because it reminds him of the guilt and shame he has over having to juggle both of you. You'll better your chances by avoiding those OW talks at all costs.
BTW You can bet the OW is jealous of his good time with you and taking care of you that he could be with her. So long as you aren't needy for him and driving him away the OW will be soon enough. Then she NOT YOU will be the woman saying "I need more and more, gimme, gimme!" at him for a little attention. And how will that make her look? There's one thing you've got she doesn't...DR and DR.com. You let her be the spoiled brat, you know how it's going to end and just what to do.
Forgot to mention that I told H this weekend that I was thinking about getting a fish tank because I wanted a pet but wasn't really a dog or cat person. Why did he get right on his ipad and start looking for fish? Talking about he loves fish.
I was thinking to myself - Dude, you said you were moving, so these will be my fish, not yours! LOL
Sometimes I do have to laugh to keep from crying.
Good job not saying it out loud. Fish tanks take a lot of work if you haven't had one -- algae scraping, chemical balance in the water, and every so often you need to change the gravel and clean out the tank. Just so you know it's a bit of a work permit.
Detaching is hard for everyone, not just you, and it's not something you can just decide to do and flip it on or off like a light, you need to work on it every day until it becomes second nature.
I struggle with it too, despite the fact that I'm piecing I still let W's moods influence me too much. I haven't found the secret other than continued effort.
WRT your exercise program, goals are the key. It doesn't matter what they are, it could be weight, it could be measurements, it could be the amount of time it takes you to do something, it could be the distance you can go in some particular exercise activity. What I've found is that doing the activity can be a great stress relief, but it's keeping a log and measuring progress that can really help you feel better.
As you see your progress from week to week, it's inspiring and helps to rebuild your damaged self-esteem. Plus, it gives you something else to think about and focus on. Set a modest goal, figure out how to measure it, and start keeping track, the "in control" feeling is priceless when your spouse is off the rails.
Accuray
Accuray - I think I'll start with a small tank and see how it goes from there.
I haven't thought about specific weight loss goals yet. Before, I was trying to lose weight so we could have a baby. Since, that's not an option right now, and I've lost some weight on the A diet, I had put it on the back burner. I'll do some thinking on it tonight.
H did pick up dinner and some other things from the store. Still attentive for the most part, but he seems nervous or something tonight. Not himself. I asked him if he was okay. He said he was just tired. Weird.
I've seen that feeling from my wife. It means your 180 is working and he's reconsidering the A. You're now equal to or the slightly better woman. Whatever you do, do not get into a fight over the next few weeks and you'll see that look a lot more. Remember "you were friends first and H and W second".
Now he may "blur" the good times you had the next day and forget what he's said or promised. This is just him coping for showing insecurity and opening up to you, so you can expect a blur or ignoring to happen later. Don't sweat hon, just "act as if" and still be kind. Also get him do what he can that same day like going out to luch together or looking at fish at the pet store.
For motivation try the $1 game. Give yourself $1 for every day of good contact, and take away $2 for everyday of bad contact. So long as he isn't angry or arguing with you I'd consider that a good day. I'm up to $22 so far
Look up Eat Stop Eat for weight loss. You can get it free or pay $40 I think. I lost 40+ lbs since June and with intermittent fasting I lost more fat than I ever did with cardio or low carb diets.
Last night was interesting...
I reconnected with this guy I used to work with on FB. There was chemistry when we first met, but nothing happened. We've been texting back and forth. He has a girlfriend and knows I'm married, so its just been chit chat. But I have been texting a lot more in front of H. I would catch him looking at me every time I picked up my phone. I know it was wrong, but I thought, not so much fun when the shoe is on the other foot, huh buddy? Anyway, the guy and I are just friends, and plan on keeping it that way.
But...get this...I've mentioned that H "lost" his wedding ring. So he hasn't been wearing one. He has some cheaper rings that he could have worn to replace it, but had not. I haven't mentioned it to him. Well this morning, he comes in the bedroom and starts moving things around on the dresser. I'm like what are you doing? He says just getting my other ring. I didn't say one word. He kissed me on my cheek. Then on his way out he asked if I needed anything and if I was okay. I said I was fine and he left.
I feel like yesterday was the first day I have been even semi- detached. I just kept repeating to myself "I can't control what he does". Let's see how today goes.
This really jumped put at me:
"I reconnected with this guy I used to work with on FB. There was chemistry when we first met, but nothing happened. We've been texting back and forth. He has a girlfriend and knows I'm married, so its just been chit chat. But I have been texting a lot more in front of H. I would catch him looking at me every time I picked up my phone. I know it was wrong, but I thought, not so much fun when the shoe is on the other foot, huh buddy? Anyway, the guy and I are just friends, and plan on keeping it that way."
Was this sort of tit-for-tat stuff a dynamic in your marriage? Is this who you want to be? I'm sure this jumped out because it's one of my issues, that "I'll show you!" behavior which is nothing but revenge fueled by hurt. I have to be so aware of my motives to keep me from controlling. But I think it's that slowing down and really examining my thoughts and actions that is really the heart of this journey.
labug, way to get to the heart of the issue. LOL
Yes, I can say the tit for tat stuff is probably one of the reasons we're where we are now. Thank you for pointing it out. (Like I didn't know that's what I was doing?) No, I don't want to be that person anymore. It hasn't gotten me anywhere but on my way to a D.
Just when I think I'm doing okay...
Called H today at work to tell him I transferred money into our joint account so he could purchase something for my laptop (he got someone at his job to do some work on it for free). He asks me how I'm feeling. I tell him not that great, but would stay at work as long as I could. He then tells me to call or email him when I leave and if I need for him to leave work to come home with me he would. I told him that wasn't necessary. He said he just wanted to make sure I was okay. I called him when I was well on my way home. He says to be sure to get some rest and to call him if I needed anything at all.
It's almost as if he's going over the top with this stuff. I mean he was always mostly helpful when I've been sick before, but it's almost like he's trying to make up for wanting to leave. Regardless, I'm taking it at face value and as much as I want to lean on him for comfort, I won't.
Ordinarily, he would have liked for me to ask him for comfort, since I almost never do. Totally against DBing though, so back to resting I go.
I'm with labug on this one. Jealousy can be a great tool to get a little more attention and intill the fear of loss in your H. It shows him you're taking yourslf out of he running as you being a back-up plan, causing him to pursue you instead. But there are better ways to show this. And it can backfire and push him away if his efforts to get your attention are ignored for the new emotional affair.
I would only reccomend this as a do something else last resort tool when when all efforts have failed or you chased him too much. I have had success with this with my WAW in her EA showing her I didn't need her after chasing, that I could move on like that and have my "just friends", and creating a little attraction for what she can't have. But I have a little more experience with this from the dating scene and know when to push her away and when to pull her closer. And that can only happen afte you've 180d enough to show him someone he would want to have but can't. The main thing with jealousy is you want to remain a challenge but not completely out of reach. It's an experment and watch thing and not a "all out in your face" statement.
Don't mistake it, once you start calling the new guy to talk about issues in your M or meeting at times you don't want your H to know about.... it's an AFFAIR. You can keep your male friends and go out to dinner but don't lose focus of your reasons to DR.
Question - I know part of DBing is not having R talks. After the initial bomb, H said he would stay until after his trip to Vegas, which is next week. After finding out about the OW, he said again that he would find him a place. I told him I had never said for him to move out.
Now, he hasn't mentioned moving again, and I have been preparing myself mentally for it if he does. However, financially I need to be prepared to become a one income household. Is there no way I can bring this up without looking like I'm pursuing or want him to leave?
Or does this seem like me trying to control the situation? I hate second guessing everything. Makes me feel kinda crazy.
It's probably best not to bring it up unless you want it to happen. At the same time, you should start preparing to be a one income household without involving H. Hope for the best but prepare for the worst kind of thing.
H drew a line in the sand when he said he would move out after his Vegas trip. If he hasn't been bringing it up and hasn't been looking for a place to live, he's probably reconsidering. If you shine a light on the deadline, he may move out just to save face so that he follows through. If you want to pave the road for him to stay, don't bring it up ever -- just pretend he didn't say it. Remember not to believe anything they say and only half of what they do. Just blow it off.
Accuray
You've exposed the affair and now he's in all or nothing and pursuing the OW even more. Been there
The best thing I heard to say in this situation is this, "I would prefer you stay and work on our marriage, but you're right this reltionship can't be saved. I'll help you pack up and find another place to stay". You agree with him and don't pressure him to think differently, sort of gently pushing him away in a nice way. Watch what he does next when you show him that "act as if" attitude. If he does move out and closer to her, let him! It's gong to end faster this way if you don't chase him and let it end on it's own
You can try to get support for the bills but I would think he is going to blow you off at first when he's in the A fog. I imagine you could bring it up to him but nothing will get him to change his mind about leaving and supporing both you and the OW aside from spousal support. Depends on his character. If you can try an automatic billing from the joint account.
Thanks Accuray. I will prepare on my end.
Tonight was the worst. I ran out to the store and when I came back H was playing slow jams thru his ipod. At first I was grooving too. This is something we used to do a lot - listen to old school R&B and just be with each other. Then a thought hit me. He probably is sitting across the room thinking about OW instead of me. (In my snooping to find out if there was an A, I found text messages referring to this.) And then I had to get out of there.
I had a good cry in the bathroom, then just laid across the bed trying to figure out where it all went wrong. Then guess who comes in the room asking if I'm ok. I say I'm fine. He asks why I'm crying. I say I'm not - which may have come out a little harsh. What I wanted to yell was you expect me to sit in here while you're thinking about your mistress? But I didn't. That would have just caused an argument.
I think I need a break from all this. I may take tomorrow off and do something just for me. I need a little pick me up.
Still under the weather. H just asked if I needed him to take me to the dr. I said no and that I thought I could get there in my own.
Now, me being superwoman has been an issue in our marriage. Should I have said yes? I don't want to appear too needy even if I am sick, but don't want to appear like I don't need him if he's reaching out.
Would you have appreciated him taking you? Would this have validated him in some way?
FYI, you're at 106 posts-time for a new thread.:)
Labug, yes to both questions. He ended up staying with me. He seemed anxious/relieved when I agreed.
Starting a new thread, but can't figure out how to link my old one. I'm using my Nook Color since my laptop is being worked on.
Next thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...;gonew=1#UNREADLooks like you did a good job linking back to this one.
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