I hit 100 posts! Good or Bad, You Be the Judge
Those who remember the Carly Simon song You're So Vain probably know the line:
But you gave away the things you loved and one of them was me
I had some dreams they were clouds in my coffee, clouds in my coffee...
and so it goes...
LB that song brings back great memories for me!!! I used to bartend and we had someone that came in and sang every Friday night. One night I requested Your So Vain and from that point on she sang it to me every week for a couple of years.
I've been doing a lot of reading and thinking and have come to a deeper understanding of detachment. Detachment Does Not mean worrying abut whether every little thing I might do or say will in some way affect the R, either positively or negatively. Detachment DOES NOT mean that I obsess about what H may be doing or thinking.
Detachment DOES MEAN that we are each on our own path; H has opted out of relationship with me. I need to accept that and live MY life, my life without the spectre of him. My life without parsing every little fiddle-fartin' thing. I want peace and serenity and all this angst is certainly not conducive to that.
I have written a lot about detachment here and every day I think I get closer to actually living it. It ain't easy.
Now I'm thinking what my next step should be. I think I need to re-read Coach's old thread.
Hey LB, I am in the exact same boat. I too am trying to figure out what my next step should be. All of this thinking is completely exhausting. I wonder if our spouses are driving themselves crazy thinking?? Considering my W is on the phone with the OW as we speak I am going to go ahead and assume that in my sitch she is not going crazy thinking about our R.
I want peace and serenity and all this angst is certainly not conducive to that.
So true!!!
Hang in there and thanks for posting on my thread today. I am just trying to figure out what to do so I haven't updated it.
More on Detaching, this is really helping me, because I am being the best ME I can be and that is in no way based on what he thinks of me.
I think a necessary facet of detachment is the process of disconnecting one's own sense of self-worth and even *basic identity* from the opinions/actions of one's spouse. "Believe none of what they say and only half of what they do" is only the first step. You can't successfully detach while your self-image is still in any way in their keeping.
This is NOT the same thing as "not giving a sh*t what they think". It's not asserting that you are great the way you are and might not have productive changes to make. It's refusing to let them decide FOR YOU whether or not you're a decent caring, spouse/parent/sexual partner/friend. It's caring about their needs and emotions while simultaneously realizing that you are a perfectly valid (not perfect; valid) human being with or without them, their love, their, cooperation, or their approval.
Classic Schnarchian differentiation, IOW.
The thread his was taken from is good for the soul.
Hey Sunshine, glad you checked in.
Journaling: Had an interesting talk with S22 yesterday. He's been home since the 19th and during that time he's seen his dad once. That was on Christmas Day for maybe 3-4 hours. That surprised me and I just asked him why. His answer: "because it's a pain." Now, I don't doubt his love for his dad, or H's love for them but H doesn't invite them to do things or try to have fun with them. They did go shooting a few times in the past but haven't for a while. He could invite them down for chili (one of his specialties) but he doesn't.
So what this means is that over the holidays, H has been alone except for a few hours on Christmas day. His mom was out of town so he didn't even have that family connection. Is this solitary life really what he was hoping to get? Not my business but I am curious. Is he depressed? Maybe, but nothing I can do about that.
As I've made changes over the past months I have wondered, "How will H know if we never see each other." In fact I asked him that early on (pre-DB), "If we don't see each other, how will you know I've changed?" As time goes on I find that that matters less and less because I'm happy with me and have been able to salvage and improve my R with my sons. They've seen and appreciate my changes and we have been able to move to a more adult R. We can have talks about emotions, boundaries, anger. We have fun, we've played Wii, cooked together, they've cooked for me, we went out to our favorite Mexican restaurant last night and laughed a lot. We stopped at Culvers for frozen custard (better get on my bike today!)
I guess this is all to say that I've changed and I'm happy with myself and my life. I'm OK and I will continue to be OK as long as I stay on this track.
I needed your 'upbeat' nature this morning
I'm so happy for you that you've come to develop a new R with your sons. It is too bad that your H is choosing to let his R with them go downhill, but like you said- it's nothing you can do anything about. It does sound like H might be depressed- probably why S doesn't like to be around him.
Hey Pur, thanks for stopping by. Like I say a lot, H will do what H will do, I can only control me.
And for today, I choose to be happy.
Labug, I dont remember if you have ever used a DB coach or not but they are really good at helping with some strategy like how to let H see your changes. I find the coaches are not as pro going dark as most of the posters on these boards.
The coaches really emphasize having the WAS see the changes and initiating some contact may be okay. You need to try something and see if it brings him closer, pushes him away, or is neutral.
Kind of that he hasnt tried to hang with his S more over Christmas break. Probably is due to some form of depression. Its like he dug a hole and is just gonna sit in it.
Thanks for your kind words on my thread I definitely needed some cheering up.
Thanks, B! I've entered an interesting phase of this experience. I think I'm DBing more for me. I've stepped off the roller coaster and have some peace finally. If H wants to create a new relationship with me, he knows where to find me. I will be OK no matter what.
That doesn't mean I don't love him or would not welcome a real attempt at reconciling. But, I have no control over that.
Had you told me 6 months ago that I might feel this way, I would NEVER have believed it.
Wow. Your confidence is inspiring.
I love "he knows where to find me". I always try to act as if thats my stance but I cant quite get there... one day.
And for today, I choose to be happy
Hey LB, I hope you don't mind if I steal your motto today??
Thanks for always posting so many insightful things.
I am so happy that you are re-connecting with your sons and realizing that you deserve to be happy!
You know, Ladies, a lot of it is just self-preservation and attitude.
LABUG!
I love your attitude! I am trying to keep up.
I have read several threads you have posted about. It is nice when you do that, because it helps me greatly with shifting the wheat from the chaff.
I am choosing to be happy today, too!
Wendy
Well my attitude hit the effin' wall today. I've had a hard time with my emotions and have been very sad. I went to 2 meetings today (there are a lot of meetings around the holidays) and that usually helps me but I started crying as I was driving home. Then it hit me why I was feeling this way. Last year we went camping over New Year's with a club we belonged to. We had a great time (at least I did)and I was just so sad that things seemed to go so wrong, so fast. In reality, I'm sure he was not as happy as he was acting.
Then I was going to go to a movie by myself to get my mind off things. I got to the theatre early and as I was sitting in my car, saw different couples going in and started crying again. Came home, and am feeling better. But geesh, it's been a hard day.
Tomorrow will be better. Right????
Tomorrow will be better. (Tomorrow, tomorrow, I love ya' tomorrow. You're only a day away.) Lucky you were spared actually hearing me sing that!
I just posted on someone elses thread about how many of us seem to be down right now. And I am planning on taking myself to a movie. Yep, alone. I might even splurge and have candy....... What the heck.
So now I know to not people watch before I go in. Thanks for the hint.
I also had a sad what I was doing last year memory going on. I think it really hurts to think you are happy and to find out they were NOT.
If I knew then what I know now. But all we can do is move forward from this day.
We might not be riding our spouses rollercoaster anymore. But we are all still on our own rollercoaster! (Insert more singing of the timeless disco hit Rollercoaster here....)
Wendy
Thanks, Wendy, your support is so helpful. And I love your singing!
I've enjoyed going to movies by myself before but today was not the day. The couples I saw were close in age to me and I, in my mind was thinking, "they're going to an early movie and then probably to a nice dinner after and here I am sitting by myself in a parking lot, crying."
I'm better now and just keep thinking: let him go, I have no control, let him go, I have no control, rinse, repeat...
ahhhhhh Disco, they don't make music like that anymore! Thank god.
Just had a thought: at midnight wherever we happen to be, we should all sing I Will Survive out loud!
First I was afraid
I was petrified
Kept thinking I could never live
without you by my side
But I spent so many nights
thinking how you did me wrong
I grew strong
I learned how to carry on
and so you're back
from outer space
I just walked in to find you here
with that sad look upon your face
I should have changed my stupid lock
I should have made you leave your key
If I had known for just one second
you'd be back to bother me
Go on now go walk out the door
just turn around now
'cause you're not welcome anymore
weren't you the one who tried to hurt me with goodbye
you think I'd crumble
you think I'd lay down and die
Oh no, not I
I will survive
as long as i know how to love
I know I will stay alive
I've got all my life to live
I've got all my love to give
and I'll survive
I will survive
It took all the strength I had
not to fall apart
kept trying hard to mend
the pieces of my broken heart
and I spent oh so many nights
just feeling sorry for myself
I used to cry
Now I hold my head up high
and you see me
somebody new
I'm not that chained up little person
still in love with you
and so you felt like dropping in
and just expect me to be free
now I'm saving all my loving
for someone who's loving me
Of course I will probably be in bed asleep, so I'll use east coast time!
((( LB ))) I absolutely love your idea of singing I Will Survive!!!!
so you felt like dropping in
and just expect me to be free
now I'm saving all my loving
for someone who's loving meIf they don't want us well eff them. Maybe it's time to start saving all our loving
I am sorry you had such a rough day. I know what you mean about seeing all the happy couples walking around (some of them I just want to kick because they are so damn happy)
Hang in there, we are all going to get through this!!
Thought I'd do a gratitude list for the first day of 2012.
Today I am grateful for:
-I'm alive and healthy
-My sons are alive and healthy and are fine young men
-I have a house and food.
-I won't need to move unless I want to because I have the means to pay for my house. (this was not sure right after BD)
-Got a 2nd job to position myself for a future change if I want it.
-My therapist
-Al Anon
-All of you here and those who have walked this path before and shared their stories
-Friends
-The Bomb Drop-yes, because had that not happened I don't think my growth would have happened at the rate it has.
-most of my problems are FWP, First World Problems.
Happy New Year LB! Here's to being grateful, personal growth and becoming truly happy...
DB Friends, I have a question.
H and I started a discussion about financial stuff before Christmas, actually 12/12. I curtailed it with the statement, "I want to table this until after the first of the year."
As he is the classic non-confrontational guy (sigh) should I restart the conversation or wait and see what he does?
Thanks, all.
addendum to above...12/12 is the last contact we've had and it was all financial.
Do you want to have the conversation, or is it something he wants? If it is his conversation, I'd let him come to you, or at least wait a couple days to see if he will make first move.
It involves him having to give me money. It's not crucial to my life, more about making things fair and fulfilling his responsibilities to me, his sons and the bank.
IMHO you are too cut off from your H and I think you need to test the waters a little so he can see your changes.
I think you should call him or email him, talk about the kids, your movie suggestion and mention you would love to finish the finance conversation you had last month when he was ready. Let him know that he can email you a time & date for the meeting.
Show him the new you, that you are forgiving but dont want to short change yourself.
Hey LABUG!!!!!
Glad you liked my story about the President. I got to workout with him again today. He was already there when I got there, but spent about 40 minutes after I got there. I wasn't as close this time, the word got out and the gym was packed.
He does an intense free weight workout. Several of the SS guerds worked out with him. And I saw the special backpack that goes everywhere the President goes. That was cool. The whole entourage that goes along with him is impressive.
Anyway, hope all is well with you. Things are happening with my H. Time will tell if it is all good.
Keep up all your good work!
Wendy
I just read this post and wanted to move it here so I could find it again. I also have a text file of DB Words of Wisdom that I will add it to.
On detachment and GAL
rickb89: I really could not imagine how much it would sukk if this doesn't work out.
25yearsmlc: Well you NEED to imagine it. Yes...that's what I said.
Only when I imagined life without my h, but with me being happy
was I able to make the changes I wanted in my life and in me - ANYHOW....so flesh out the images of what you'd be doing without her. If she passed away and enough time had passed
what would your life look like assuming it's a healthy happy life? You're not shriveling up in the fetal position, right?
Are you going back to school or taking a class or joining a new church or taking Spanish or travelling or what? And with whom? (not OWs, but who else?)
and create as much of THAT life now, as possible. It's called GAL and it makes you happier and healthier and more likely to reconcile...and yet, if you don't, you're a lot farther down the road of recovery than you would be otherwise.
It's a win win....hope you get this. Make sense?
Some days I feel really detached and others, not so much. Now when thoughts of H enter my head, I'm saying to myself
We're not a couple, he does not want to be with me, I'm worth more than pining for someone who doesn't want ME.
Of all the old threads I've read, they all say this-DETACHING-creates success, no matter if there's reconciliation or not.
Thanks for reposting this - I too loved this post. I need to read this every day. I need to remind myself everyday to create the life I want.
Hello LADY,
I am enjoying your new thread, alot of great stuff here! Thanks!
Hi Labug,
Sorry about your difficult day, overall you're doing great! Hold on to that. WRT your financial discussion with H, I would have it. It's carrot and stick. Your good attitude and all your positive changes are the carrot, and the bill coming due on the financials is the stick -- both will hopefully get him thinking more about the decisions he is making. Obviously you need to handle the discussion in DB fashion, but I get the sense you know how to do that.
Accuray
Thanks for reposting that very wise morsel of advice
I am having a very difficult time with the same thing at the moment.
Hope your day gets better~
Of all the old threads I've read, they all say this-DETACHING-creates success, no matter if there's reconciliation or not.
Interesting. In many books I've read, men tend to retreat in relationships as a coping or defense mechanism -- go to the man cave to escape being shamed, that kind of thing. Women then feel that they're not connected, and you have a downward spiral.
Now in DB, detaching is necessary because the other person doesn't want to be with you. It's a strategy to (a) give them space and (b) make you learn to be OK with giving them space. To some degree it's letting go of the rope and letting the tide take you where it will. This is successful in DB because you stop pursuing which takes pressure off the WAS.
In the case of reconciliation, I don't think the detaching is quite the same, but maybe I'm wrong. I wrestle with this. In the context of reconciliation, I find Schnarch's concepts of "Differentiation" and "Fusion" more useful. "Fusion" is like codependence where you need your spouse to validate you, and you have a reflected sense of self. "Differentiation" means that you are able to self-soothe, and define yourself as a person independent from your spouse. You are in your marriage not because you *need* to be, but because you want to be.
In the context of differentiation, I think you want to be with your spouse, but you don't lean on them as a crutch. Detaching to me implies learning not to want your spouse, but maybe I'm looking at it the wrong way.
Accuray
I didn't finish that thought, sorry! The point about the "retreating" is if that was a walkaway factor, then "detaching" during reconciliation runs the risk of looking like retreating, right? That's what I struggle with. One of my W's historic complaints was that I would retreat and leave her alone.
Now, I'm hesitant to GAL or detach, because I don't want to foster that alone feeling again. If connecting is the opposite of detaching, then I think the strategy needs to change in reconciliation to differentiation rather than detachment.
Accuray
I think detaching for me was a difficult concept to grasp. I tend to think of it as not letting someone else's emotional response to something control my feelings or emotions. I don't believe it's the same thing as disconnecting or withdrawal.
I think the GAL'ing for me has been about creating the life for myself I want to live. I am focusing on activities that put an extra spring in my step and that make me feel alive. I am surrounding myself with people with a positive outlook.
If that all makes any sense...
I think the detaching and success was more about during the phase before reconciliation when you are DBing, letting the S miss you. If you reconcile then you slowly work toward the interdependence I've mentioned before, not expecting your partner to complete you but to complement you.
What I wanted to convey was that detachment is healthy and even necessary for building a new relationship.
The complete vs complement thing is interesting to in this context. I do like the concept of "needing" the other person and being needed within reason. My wife and I have had the debate several times. I like the model where we are 85% whole and the marriage brings the following 15% to our lives. My wife likes the model where we are 100% whole by ourselves, and the marriage is benefit above that.
I can see and appreciate her point, and it is in line with Schnarch, I just don't like it.
It struck me that Labug referenced working toward interdependence which, as a choice of words, supports complete versus complement. In complement, there is no need for interdependence, there are two wholes who are choosing to share, but who do not *need*.
I like the philosophical debate, and I realize I'm on the side that will most likely be judged "wrong" by a healthy relationship yardstick, but I like the notion of comfort and security that the mutual need provides. The complement model suggests that any day, one partner or the other would get tired of sharing and walk out without feeling diminished, and the other partner would let them go without feeling diminished. From an evolutionary "pair bonding" standpoint, that doesn't feel like a marriage to me.
I think it's an interesting thing to think about anyway...
Accuray
We interrupt this program....
I need a root canal, really, as if this sitch hasn't been as painful as a root canal.
Accuray, I'll respond to your post when I can think clearly.
We interrupt this program....
I need a root canal, really, as if this sitch hasn't been as painful as a root canal.
Accuray, I'll respond to your post when I can think clearly.
DB Friends,
I need help with my response to this email from H. This is in response to our discussion about mortgage/house expenses. My possible responses/explanations are in red.
We are not legally separated and there has been no talk of divorce. He does pay healthcare for the sons, insurance on the car they drive, a set amt for groceries as S19 lives with me and 50% of interest on S22 PLUS (school) loan.
This is a WAH with no OW, a true WA who was done with my controlling ways. He is a non-confrontational "Mr Nice Guy" until he blows and then it's all over.
I think that it would be best to file taxes as married. We did okay last year.
If you'll get a large envelope and collect the statements as they come in, mortgage, bank, W2's, registration on your car, property tax and anything else that's year end. It will all come by the end of this month.
It would be good to have last years return, that way I can package it up for [tax prep]. I will sort and collate, for submission to them, I will also pay the preparation fee. I may need a blank check for the fee, but I will pay it. Can you write a check from your acct? It will, as always be electronically deposited into the [bank] account.
I would like to have this by the first week of Feb. as this is the less busy time and the refund will come sooner. It is also nice to have it done, no stress and no hurrying.
I think they do a better job in the "down time". Will do. And thanks for taking charge on this.
As for the house, If I have the truck and the trailer,...I do want my tools,(he has a lot of $$tools but he does not make a living with these)... I imagine that would be close to a wash. [I had given him a list of things that would allow him to meet his house obligation, one of them was relinquish his claim to the house]Unless of course the housing market has made a great rebound that I don't know about. I realize that I owe something for what you've paid and I haven't on the house this past year. Hopefully the tax refund will take care of some of that. Help me understand this. I'm not clear on what you mean about the house.
I'm not prepared to talk about any thing other than the house at this time.
What are your thought's ,...ideas?
You have some personal stuff in the garage. If you let me know when you'll pick it up, I can have it on the garage apron.
Please change your address and phone number with everyone you regularly receive mail/calls from.
I worry because control is so much a part of me, I sometimes don't even realize I'm doing it although I'm getting much better at it.
Thanks, all.
Bumping cause I want some input.
How do you want to be ????
How would you have responded in the past ?
You have some personal stuff in the garage. If you let me know when you'll pick it up, I can have it on the garage apron.
A little of the old you ?
Anytime one uses the words "I" or "you" , there is a chance of placing blame , or guilt onto the WAS. Choose your words carefully in those situations.
Please change your address and phone number with everyone you regularly receive mail/calls from.
Ouch....
Your fix, for his problem....
Will do. And thanks for taking charge on this.
Sounds pretty good, as long as it is true to what you really feel....
Thank you!! I need jump-started, this behavior is so new for me. I want to be non-judgmental, open, thoughtful, fun, a listener more than a talker.
I don't want to be a free storage and mail drop but I don't want to shame him. That's how I got to be a LBS.
There is some of your personal stuff in the garage. Also your mail still comes to this address. Suggestions on how we might handle these things?
I am beyond grateful that he is taking over the taxes. I was dreading that like the plague (or root canal).
I don't want to shame him. That's how I got to be a LBS.
I have to expand on this, I don't want to shame him because that's not who I want to be. My controlling, judgmental behavior affects all areas of my life and all my relationships. I want to file off those parts of me that chafe others.
I may need a blank check for the fee, but I will pay it. Can you write a check from your acct?
Are you concerned he won't pay it? Otherwise give him the benefit of the doubt. You can have the conversation after he disappoints you versus implying that you know he will.
[i]As for the house, If I have the truck and the trailer,...I do want my tools,(he has a lot of $$tools but he does not make a living with these)... I imagine that would be close to a wash. [I had given him a list of things that would allow him to meet his house obligation, one of them was relinquish his claim to the house]Unless of course the housing market has made a great rebound that I don't know about. I realize that I owe something for what you've paid and I haven't on the house this past year. Hopefully the tax refund will take care of some of that. Help me understand this. I'm not clear on what you mean about the house.
I'm not prepared to talk about any thing other than the house at this time.
You lost me here. Versus saying "I'm not prepared" (controlling), say "Let's discuss"
You have some personal stuff in the garage. If you let me know when you'll pick it up, I can have it on the garage apron.
Please change your address and phone number with everyone you regularly receive mail/calls from.
Change to: "I am currently receiving your mail and phone calls, please think about how we should handle that. Also, how would you like to handle your personal stuff in the garage?"
--Accuray
Good stuff to think about Accuray. Thanks.
Hope you are feeling better after the root canal.
I hope you are feeling better after the root canal. I had one once and it was awful. I feel for you.
just had my crown done today, last part of the root canal. Hope you are feeling better lady
Just got back from the root canal procedure. Not bad at all! After all the horror stories I've heard, I was dreading it. The worst part of course is having your mouth clamped open for 45-50 minutes.
I'm grateful to live in the age of modern dentistry where these things can be taken care of with minimal pain.
Hey Labug!
Glad you got through it okay. Made me remember my root canal.
An emergency one. The dentist's assistant called in sick. So his wife (Also a dentist, filled in.) It was the longest 90 minutes of my life. They bickered about everything. Right now I'm wondering if they are still married.......
Hope you have a nice evening!
Wendy
Thanks everyone for your well-wishes on the root canal.
Here's the email I sent to H. I appreciate everyone keeping my terse, controlling tendencies in control. I'm more and more realizing how when I arrange things for other people "I'll have your stuff on the garage apron" that I'm controlling them, or attempting to. I'm giving the message, 'I'm going to arrange and plan your life because I think you aren't able to do it.'
I become enmeshed by doing things for others that they can do for themselves. I just read this line this morning-I have no right to deprive anyone else of the challenge to meet his own responsibility.
H
About the taxes, I'm glad we agree on that. I will package the paperwork up. I appreciate you taking charge of this.
Help me understand about the house, it's not clear to me what you're saying
I am currently receiving your mail and phone calls, please think about how we should handle that. Also, how would you like to handle your personal stuff in the garage?
Sounds good to me, my only suggestion might be to rephrase the part that says "help me understand" "I'm not quite sure if I understand your thoughts about the house" Just a thought, good luck, either way sounds good!
Gunny
meant to say rephrase the part that says "help me understand" to "I'm not quite sure if I understand your thougts about the house"
Thinking about you today.
Don't think I'm sappy, but I'm like a child now. When I say my prayers at night I run through all the people I can think of to help give them strength.
I had gotten out of the habit of praying at night. I've found it really does help me go to sleep. Something about putting my world in order in my head.......
Aloha,
Wendy
Thank you so much and I don't think you're sappy. I usually have my quiet prayer/meditation time in the morning, trying to get centered for the day.
I saw this on FB last week:
Dear God, so far today, I’ve done all right. I haven’t gossiped, and I haven’t lost my temper. I haven’t been grumpy, nasty or selfish, and I’m really glad of that! But in a few minutes, God, I’m going to get out of bed, and from then on, I’m probably going to need a lot of help. Thank you! Amen.
Just a little journaling after reading 25's last post and a post from gunny:
I have so much to work on with me that I don't think I'm ready for ANY relationship.
What I do know is that I need more GAL fun activities. A friend is getting a group together to do a mud run in March. That is going to be on my list. Even tho I'm active being silly and doing things that seem to have no purpose has never been high on my list. That needs to change.
Lady,
Mudruns are fun, great social events, you get to meet new people on your team, and the after run activities are great! Bravo!
Just a little journaling after reading 25's last post and a post from gunny:
I have so much to work on with me that I don't think I'm ready for ANY relationship.
What I do know is that I need more GAL fun activities. A friend is getting a group together to do a mud run in March. That is going to be on my list. Even tho I'm active being silly and doing things that seem to have no purpose has never been high on my list. That needs to change.
labug - good for you for recognizing that! I think it sounds like fun! Go for it!
That sounds wonderful labug!! I've heard great things about mudruns.
Haven't posted on my thread for awhile. I've been reading current posts on the board and learning a lot. Most importantly I'm learning about forgiveness and letting go of anger and resentment, about what true understanding and unconditional love really look like. Changing decades of ingrained behavior is not easy, but I am up to the challenge. And most of all, I want to have a good life.
Some of my goals:
-think before I speak
-if I feel anger, really look at where that's coming from
-don't react to other's emotions
-awareness, acceptance, action
-define, and live in tune with, my personal values
-stay in the present (this will be a real stretch for me)
-try a new activity every month
-call friends more often, not just when things are in the crapper
Something different happened yesterday, H emailed me! He has not initiated contact with me at all since he moved out. We've had contact but always his was in response to me.
I had written this on gunny's thread a few days ago:
He responded to my last email about the house (non-committal), mail (he'll change his address) and stuff in the garage (no answer). The tone seemed different, and I know it's hard in email to gauge that but there was something about his choice of words. He did tell me he was going to be out of town over the next 2 weeks which is something he's not let me know before.
The current email was to let me know that he had deposited money in the joint account. In it he said:
"I deposited the insurance and half of S22's interest payment. I hope I figured it right,... if not let me know."
The insurance money is monthly thing and we have an agreement that it will deposited by the 19th. The school loan payment is quarterly and I had forwarded the statement to him. His math skills are better than mine and let's face it, it's simple division and addition, so the part about letting him know if it was not right is interesting.
I'm trying not to read too much into this but it does feel different from the contacts we've had up till now. How is this for a response:
Thanks for letting me know about the deposit. You have better math skills than I do, so there's no need for me to check your work
S22 made the Dean's List! How great is that?Feedback always appreciated.
I've also been thinking a lot about what keeping the road home paved and smooth really looks like in practice. I think in the beginning I was running a road crusher over it constantly and setting a few land mines, just for fun.
It's a good exercise to really think through some of these concepts that have become catch phrases.
La how would you know that you have made changes? What will that look like?
Sorry I just have more questions than Answers Congrats on him making dean's list
Good morning labug! Catching up on some reading this morning and was going through your sitch. Thanks for all your insights and thoughts. Its been helpful. Its funny how I see either me or my W in the situations you mentions.
Comments that compare to my W:
I had another realization yesterday...I've always carried a lot of anger which led to resentments. I played the rescuer, the fixer, and yes, sometimes the martyr, always seeking the approval and praise of others. When they didn't respond the way I wanted, the resentment came and I cared for, fed and nurtured it. I blamed others for my anger, "Couldn't they see how I had sacrificed for them? How I had fixed things for them?" Needless to say, they didn't ask for my sacrificing or fixing.
Comments that compare to me:
I have always had difficulty with fun activities or other things that are "just for me." I was raised in an atmosphere of scarcity, so felt guilty spending money on me. (guilt and shame, huge motivators-?demotivators for me)
These just scratch the surface but wanted to give some examples.
Also, you said.."I guess this is all to say that I've changed and I'm happy with myself and my life. I'm OK and I will continue to be OK as long as I stay on this track."
Ditto on this. waiting for the "ok" feeling to be more consistent and not falling back on the misery around W's behaviors but all in time.
Take care and hope you have a great weekend.
La how would you know that you have made changes? What will that look like?
Sorry I just have more questions than Answers Congrats on him making dean's list
Hi Rick, thanks for the questions. Do you mean this in relation to my goals? If that's the case I think you're right, these aren't really goals but rather behaviors that would get me to a goal.
More thought needs to be put into this now that I have my full dose of caffeine for the day.
ces, I find that the more I stop looking over my shoulder for H, the easier the path is to walk. Which only makes sense, I guess. You can't move forward when you keep looking back. That's why living in the present is so important.
I have to say that reading a lot of the threads here has been so instructive because if I keep reading the same advice over and over eventually it starts to sink in.
Some of my goals:
-think before I speak
-if I feel anger, really look at where that's coming from
-don't react to other's emotions
-awareness, acceptance, action
-define, and live in tune with, my personal values
-stay in the present (this will be a real stretch for me)
-try a new activity every month
-call friends more often, not just when things are in the crapper
labug, I like your goals. I think these will help you work toward creating a road home that's paved and smooth. I think some of too, would be doing the opposite of what you did when you were a land mine planting road crusher. I would say be as upbeat and positive as you can in any interaction with your H. It appears you are trying to to do that. You're not being demanding in your interactions either, and I think that helps.
I think your email is fine. I think it's to the point and it's positive at the end. There's no pursuing and there's definitely not any venom in there.
Congratulations your S22 making the dean's list!
hi labug,
just finished catching up with your story. and thank you for dropping by mine in the past.
one quick question.. as i was reading your post i kept wondering.. are you a nurse? because that would definitely explain a lot of things for me
i'm very inspired by your comments. gave me a lot to think about.
Hey Labug!
I think I will never be a deep thinker. I love reading your posts, you are really getting into it all.
I keep thinking and thinking, thanks for the motivation.
Aloha,
Wendy
12 hour shift.. fix-it attitude.. you and i share similar traits
i was speaking to my counselor this week about how i recognize that i seem to come in and try to "save the day" with H. ie. when kids are acting up.. etc. need to step back and let him take charge and make decisions.
Can't remember if I put this in another post but my IC said to me, "the things that make you so good in your job, make you difficult in relationships."
I am finding that it's nice to let go of some of those things I "had" to do.
that last post of your reminds me of rick1963's post i just replied to. A lot of us are like that -- the work v home personality....yep, it gets us in trouble. I was told by W that one of the reasons she is leaving is that I am too into my work.... Well my job is my fun, it's something that i would do regardless of whether I got paid. I just think i'm lucky in that sense.
I'll catch up on your latest updates.
Labug, you continue to be an inspiration. I'm at a crossroads of how I can keep Dbing while in so much pain.... reading your posts helps to keep me on track, thanks you.
Can'[color:#6666CC]t remember if I put this in another post but my IC said to me, "the things that make you so good in your job, make you difficult in relationships."
I am finding that it's nice to let go of some of those things I "had" to do. [/color]
i concur. i never wanted to become my H's mother but that is what happened. definitely stepping back from that role!!
One of my friends thinks I should just say "Do I look like your mother?" everytime my husband says something that is the kind of question one would ask their mother.
Easier said than done. So hard to define new roles in old relationships.
Hello Lady,
Thank you for your kind words about my dog, hope your day is going well,
Gunny, We(I) have a dog, big 110# golden/lab mix. We got him for the boys and now he's mine. I've not been much of a dog person but I will miss him when he's gone. He's great company for me and gives me something to care for.
He will eat just about anything. Today I came home from work and he was eating the plastic handle of an emery board, manicure thingy. Sheesh!
Labug said - my IC said to me, "the things that make you so good in your job, make you difficult in relationships."
Rick said - OMG this is me too! I am just realizing this in myself and have been thinking about this all week.
Best to you!
Wow, I still have a thread! Thanks for dusting it off, Rick.
I should probably write something...H has a lot of stuff in the garage and I asked him about what his plans were for this in an email a couple of weeks ago. He responded to other things in the email but not the garage stuff question. I think I should bring this up again..."so did you make a plan for getting your things from the garage?"
Remember, I've always been the controlling, pushy type-my 180 is open to his ideas, listening and NOT controlling.
I refinished a chair today. This has always been a love of mine and I haven't done it much since the bomb. But we had this chair at work that needed help and so I brought it home and worked all day on it. I thought very little about anything other than that chair and the steps I needed to take.
A great GAL activity that I need to do more of.
I start the new PT job tomorrow. Want to get the first day over to get rid of the first day jitters. Wish me luck!
Good luck on your first day!!
I like repurposing/refinishing furniture too! i never thought of that as a GAL activity... my dining room chairs are desperate for some new cushions... You've inspired a new project!
I think that asking about the garage again could be viewed as you trying to 'control' the sitch. Only because, you've already said it once, and it's in an email (so he can re-read if he ever wants to)... but by you bringing it up- you are implying that *you* have a timeline/urgency for this action to happen, instead of letting him decide when to make his own timeline. If he's anything like my H, he might be thinking: it's *my* stuff in the garage, *I'll* decide when I want to move it. I had the same problems you did that contributed to the break-up (controlling, not listening) and I understand that you really do want this taken care of sooner rather than later.... but I would not say anything for a little longer and give him the chance to make the decision. Just my 2 cents.
Thanks Purg,I appreciate your response. You know, I really don't care if the stuff is there but I feel like he's taking advantage because he's gone, he says he's not coming back but he gets free storage. I like what you said about it possibly being controlling. Sometimes I'm just being direct and to the point and he sees it as controlling.
It's like learning a new language.
Yep. We have to learn to speak their 'alien' language... filled with acceptance and validations. I don't think *they* even know this new language yet- which is why they over react and only hear the negatives out of our mouths. It's really not fair that we have to do the majority of the work while they just float through their new life.
I'm with ya on feeling taken advantage of... H has 'moved' out, yeah right. He has a room at a buddies house that he crashes at when he's not spending all his time at OW's house. Yet ALL of his clothes, toiletries, computer, tools, everything... is still here. I feel like a free storage unit too. The bad part for my sitch, is that I can't expect him to move everything out since he doesn't have his own place- just a spare room. I guess he could get a storage unit to 'live' out of... but in reality, we can't afford for him to do that over the next 1.5 years until he gets back from deployment. I think, that while he's deployed, I might move all his things to the garage- or ask him to do that before he leaves.... no action, just thoughts right now.
Bug and Purg - if you want to reconcile, as hard as this DB torture is, why wouldn't you leave the road home smooth and paved? I hope I
Didn't just piss off two woman but wouldn't your forcing of them to move their stuff out just be another move towards further separation?
I hate seeing you two bummed out like this. Here's a suggestion and it worked for me when I felt like you tonight. I watched the movie Bridesmaids. I haven't laughed that hard in a long time.
wow, rick.... I hadn't looked at it like that. AND Bridesmaids made me laugh so hard I started crying!! I saw it twice in the theater and rent it often when I need a good laugh! "I can't be positive which end that came out of".... gets me every time!!
I was thinking that by asking him to move his stuff out or to the garage- I would be sending the message that 'I accept that our M is over and I'm creating a distinct boundary'..... thanks the other perspective.
Man, this DB stuff is confusing sometimes! On one hand people say to set clear boundaries so the WAS *knows* that you are accepting their decision, and 'moving on' with your life.... but then you bring up a good point too- by keeping the stuff in the house, it doesn't make it as hard for them to feel welcomed- if they ever changed their mind, and keeps the 'road home' nice and smooth.
GRRRRR! Now I don't know what to do!
Can't speak for Labug (btw- sorry for hijacking here)
rick - thanks for that perspective! like labug and purg, i have been wondering about H's stuff too. will keep your words in mind.
My apartment is filled with my H crap and sometimes it really gets to me. I am sure you can imagine my NY apartment is not that big and it would be great if he cleared out the bike tools, & tires and crap but I just deal with it.
I only cleaned out his side of the medicine cabinet 2 months ago.
It will make it easier for him to come home if I just leave his stuff here.
First day at the new job was good. I worked there for a short time about 20 years ago and believe it or not some people are still there...and they remembered me. It was a good day and I met some new, very nice people.
Now the first day jitters have been squelched.
Thanks for all the responses. I guess it might come down to whether or not I feel taken advantage of. If a Spouse has decided that it's over and they don't want to continue in the M then the natural consequences of that are they need to make arrangements to take care of their "stuff."
As I sent the email just before he was working out of town for a while, I think the better part of valor is to wait a bit a see if he responds.
I guess I've looked at the "paved and smooth" plan in more of an emotional context-no carryover resentments, no bringing up past difficulties, from this day forward, etc.
Thoughts?
My thoughts....if a LBS decides its over then you close all the doors to the past ... but if you want to reconcile then I think you have to leave all avenues for the WAS to come home. Even if an A has happened....you either want to fix the M or not. If you do the you must allow for all opportunity for it to work, as tough as it is.
What sukks is how tough it is on us and so much is in limbo in the meantime. I guess you have to look at this in the context of you are doing soul level work here...for yourself....for sacred marriage vows...for you children's well being and as an example of altruism for them...for love in the world. That doesn't mean you won't feel stabs of real pain but how else does our spirit and souls evolve? DB is a form of the deepest soul level work you will ever do and perhaps one of the greatest acts of love you will ever give.
Oh, man, Rick! That's deep, I'll have to read it again in the morning and think it over. Thanks, I always appreciate your posts.
rick said: " DB is a form of the deepest soul level work you will ever do and perhaps one of the greatest acts of love you will ever give."
Wow. I mean, wow.
You always have such great words to explain our sitch's.
(sorry, labug, didn't mean to steal your posts)
Glad your first day went well!!!
I have to say, there are very few places where a question about "crap in the garage" can led to a discussion about "soul level work" and not seem ludicrous.
Thanks you guys!
I need to just keep thinking I'm doing what I would with my life, being married or divorced or separated makes no difference right now. I would still be going to work, having fun, learning things, meeting new people, talking with my sons, in other words GALing.
If I were rady for another relationship, this might be different but I still have far too much soul work to do.
Again, thanks to you all for making me think!
Wow, I haven't been this down in a long time. Just this morning as I see by the post above, I was doing fine, or at least trying to convince myself I'm fine.
(venting)
H never contacts me. We have a 19 year old son who is not in school this semester due to poor choices. He just told his dad that tonight but will H contact me to talk about it? No! As I've heard so many here ask "How can they just walk away from everything?" How can it go from one day sharing everything to the next day nothing.
I know he had checked out long before he left. I know I hurt him a lot with my controlling ways and my anger and resentment. He!! I didn't even like me. I truly own all that and I'm working on changing and have made great progress, but tonight it seems useless.
It's coming up on a year since he left in which time we've had very little face-to-face contact and minimal email contact about money, house, tax, kid issues. Still no talk of a divorce or anything to do with the R. I've only been DBing since Oct-Nov. Am I expecting too much. (I know, I know, I shouldn't be expecting at all.)
Why is the limboland of this so painful. If he's so done why doesn't he just get it over with?
Feeling a little brighter this morning. I think part of my problem is the amt of hours I worked this last 2 weeks which severely cut into my GAL time. Then there's the stress of starting a new job. And I'm tired today, didn't sleep well last night.
I have a pretty full day today, hope I can fit in a nap somewhere.
Words of encouragement? or a 2 x 4, whatever is appropriate.
Catching up on you.....
I can hear how sad you are that H doesn't contact you, even about the kids. I'm impressed that you are still able to keep going after almost a year apart.
I hope that your new job will help to give you some sense of purpose, even though it's stressful starting out. Once you get your feet under you again, and get used to the new routines- make sure you figure out where you GAL fits in. I remember when I was working full time, I ALWAYS complained that I never had anytime for myself (looking back, that's where a lot of my resentment came from). I've come to realize that it's not selfish to schedule time for yourself only- it's healthy.
Naps are great! Even 15-20 power naps are good for getting your second wind
Thanks, Purg!
Yes, I also almost never scheduled time for myself and when I did the old guilt monster reared its ugly head. Guilt monster must die!
H has been so resolute in his decision to be away from me that I can't help but think about how much better things could be if he only put as much energy into working on the marriage. But I have no control over him.
IC appt this a.m. That usually helps.
Just noticed I'm at 100 posts. Better open a new thread.
hello lady,
sorry to hear you were a little down, but I think that is par for the course for what you are going through. You seem to be making good progress, but sometimes will have a little down day.
This weekend I had a great time, got to spend time with my family at my brothers place in Pennsy, cold, about 0 degrees every morning, but we got alot of good physical work done, cut wood, shoveled snow in the driveway, outdoors most of the day, sitting by the fire each night having a cold beer and talking about old time. One of my younger brothers is being deployed to Afghan next month, this was our goodbye get together with him, so,bittersweet. I was feeling great last night, this morning, a little down, nothing compared to the depths of depression a couple of mos ago, but not as good as I have been feeling, but I attribute this to not sleeping well last night.
So, bottom line, we will have these days, but we are making progress, and I can tell you are moving along at a healthy pace, keep it up!
Thanks, Gunny,
I've been sleeping really well up until this past couple of days.
I have never been able to get by on just a few hours of sleep. It really messes with me. And I start wondering and mind-reading.
Blecchh!
Wow, I haven't been this down in a long time. Just this morning as I see by the post above, I was doing fine, or at least trying to convince myself I'm fine.
(venting)
H never contacts me. We have a 19 year old son who is not in school this semester due to poor choices. He just told his dad that tonight but will H contact me to talk about it? No! As I've heard so many here ask "How can they just walk away from everything?" How can it go from one day sharing everything to the next day nothing.
I know he had checked out long before he left. I know I hurt him a lot with my controlling ways and my anger and resentment. He!! I didn't even like me. I truly own all that and I'm working on changing and have made great progress, but tonight it seems useless.
It's coming up on a year since he left in which time we've had very little face-to-face contact and minimal email contact about money, house, tax, kid issues. Still no talk of a divorce or anything to do with the R. I've only been DBing since Oct-Nov. Am I expecting too much. (I know, I know, I shouldn't be expecting at all.)
Why is the limboland of this so painful. If he's so done why doesn't he just get it over with?
It's coming up on a year since he left in which time we've had very little face-to-face contact and minimal email contact about money, house, tax, kid issues. Still no talk of a divorce or anything to do with the R.
Would he be open to regular discussion about the R? I mean, if you simply told him that you have had many awakenings about how you were in the R and want to maybe have regular discussions about it. Maybe, just baby steps discussions? Would he feel safe enough to try it?
Hi Rick, I'm going to respond on my new thread as this one is over 100.