How do we know if what our was is telling us is true? How could it be over for a long time and w not see it? Did he ever really love me? Why did he marry me? So lost and confused. I dont know what to say to him or how to treat him. I dont want to push him away, I want him to come back but I dont know what to say or do
"...after I posted last I backslid again..i lashed out at him by saying if he didnt want to pay he could sign his rights away and i would do it myself. That really pissed him off and he called me a bitch. I appologized and said i didnt mean that."
3 steps forward, 2 steps back, but at least it's one step at a time. That's how most of us did it/do it. Expect the backslides. When they happen take note, learn and move on. Sounds like you're getting a little better though.
"I have been keeping busy. Today I went to church, then to the store, then to our friends house to watch the game( Go Packers!)"
That's the spirit! Yes, things will still get you down. Expect that. However, as time goes on the downs will have less and less impact (it's already happening.) Eventually, more and more you might even find youself thinking/saying, 'Ya, seen this before, whatever...' or 'I know what to do.'
"How much time passed before things started to turn around? I have a hard time w/ patience. I miss our old life together."
Accuray and Mishka said some very good things on your last thread just before it closed. Review what they said on this. I can add a little to this.
From what I've seen and learned, probably about a year or 2 at least before you can start to feel you're in the clear with H. You'll be getting better 'long' before that though. I know this is hard. My heart goes out to you.
I've said this before and I will say it again, H has to work through this and H will take as long as H takes. Unfortunately H is not coming around any time soon. However, you can help it along though, again, see above and below even. Note: don't miss the 'little' improvements here and there. Take note, file it away, then go watch a Packers game.
"I want to know what it is... "
I know it's hard not to but resist pressuring him for info on this. Actually, a part of him would be expecting this/liking that. The part that wants to push your buttons. Don't feed that, you'll be sorry.
Things will come out on its own. Always does. Note: I said 'things' and not just one thing. Again, his mind is cycling between a number of thoughts. The reasons can even change hourly. You don't want to crawl into his mind right now or in the near future. Go watch a Packers game instead.
"It was so sudden. It was few months of strange behavior and then I'm done."
I had the same thing actually. A number of others did too. This was when the ILYBNILWY bomb was actually dropped by my WAS. One minute I'm eating sushi with W, enjoying life, birthday coming up, then 5 minutes later I'm supposed to move out because W needs to find herself. Ya, it helped coming here and finding out I wasn't the only one!
"Should I complement him to "build him up", which he responds well to, ignore him, be indifferent, cold, I'm not sure. Where do I go from here??"
Sure, it works, why not? Every once and a while, give some words of encouragement. Space it out a bit though. Maybe every couple of days. Too much and this could be seen as clingyness by H. We talked about this. We know he responds to words, so words it is. Watch and take note. (As we talked about also, keep working through the DB books, Divorce Busting and Divorce Remedy.)
In between, talk about the weather, the Packers, things that need tending to, things that are non threatening. I wouldn't give the cold shoulder though. Avoid this unless he's in a real snit. At that, you already know what to say/do for this type of thing.
Sure, even skip a day or 3 without contacting him here and there. Let him chase you a bit. Be mysterious even, can get H thinking/curious,
H, 'So, you haven't talked to me lately, what have you been up to?'
You, 'Thanks for your concern. I've been keeping busy. Lot's to do.'
H, 'Where have you been?!'
You, 'I've been out'
Note: don't point a finger at H for being the cause of it all, generalize on this. Adjust as you see fit.
Let us know how this goes.
Hey guys, things have been pretty quiet. After I told H I signed the "papers" he has stopped texting me pretty much at all. Things have calmed down a ton. He still see's our son once a week but it's only for 2-3 hours. He had him today and when he was done raced out the door b/c he was late meeting "someone" at the gym. Yeah. I haven't contacted him except about our son. He was sick at the sitter the other day and I called him to ask if he could stay home w/ him the next day and he said he would get back to me later He was off that day. He later said no b/c it wasn't his responsibility, wtf, and thats why I have sole custody, and he pays child support. wow i really couldnt believe it.
H seems so far away. I really wonder where he has gone to. Not physically but emotionally. I miss him so much. I wonder if he will ever want to get back together and be a family. He did ask me several times via text why I wasnt changing my last name back. When I responded I said that i wanted the same last name as my son. He said ok, that he was just wondering. One of his biggest complaints when we were together was that I didnt finish school. He throws it back in my face all the time. When I told him I was going back and not taking loans out he said how? When I said that my work was paying for it, he got pissy w/ me. Lie he couldnt be happy for me.
Do you guys thing that I should try to iniate some kind of dialog between us or stay dark for a while?I'm not sure b/c he's not contacting me at this point and i dont want to pursue but he has allways responded well to complements and things
Wow! I don't know your H, but what I gather from your last post... what a JERK!!! He doesn't want to stay home with his sick son b/c its "not his responsibility"? WTF?
I say go dark. You need to start taking care of yourself. Stop worrying about what's going on with him and worry about what's going on with you. Going back to school is WONDERFUL!!! You don't need his approval or permission to do so. Keep doing things for yourself and your son. Its hard, I know, I've been there... but if you keep at it, even one month from now you'll be in a much better place.
I think you should ask yourself before you tell him anything you are doing for yourself... like the school thing. Ask yourself what kind of reaction you are hoping to get from him? Then ask yourself what is the likelihood, based on his current behaviors, that you are going to get that reaction? If that answer is slim to none... don't bother asking. You are just setting yourself up to be disappointed.
Hi TMC,
I recommend going dark -- he obviously wants/needs space and time so give it to him. To the degree you can, ask him for nothing, even where S is concerned. Just pretend he's always working so he's not an option.
Read over Hopeful's situation. H moved out and went dark and she got pretty convinced he was gone for good. When she really stopped pursuing, he started coming around. One of the best things I read was that he called her when she was out with friends and there was music and good times in the background. That's what you want him to hear -- you having fun without him.
I know this is hard, but close up the hatches and go dark. Remember it is just for now and not forever
Accuray
DARK, DARK, DARK. BLACK if possible!
If your H won't take his own son for a day when he's already off work and says it's 'not his responsibility' then he is not worth your time or emotion. That is disgusting.
You said you have sole custody right? Is that sole physical and legal custody or just the physical custody? Just curious how you worded it.
I'm so sorry sweetie, but that man sounds like an arrogant, selfish pr!ck and he doesn't deserve to have the love of a sweet woman or the pleasure of being a father. He's just turned into a sperm donor in my eyes. How sad.
Hey guys. Yes its pretty much just that. H sees S once a week for about 3 hours. Thats all. He frequently throws it in my face that he "gave" me sole custody ( physical + legal). I cant believe how fast he has changed. He is allways angry w/ me. We had made a plan for xmas that we made weeks ago and both agreed upon. He was going to come here on xmas and we would do our S's xmas together and then he was going to go to his moms b4 he had to go to work at 12, and i was going to go to my moms. So he texts me and says after we do xmas together he wants to take S to his moms for 2 hours and then i can come get him. I said no that that wasnt what we had disscused and he flew off the handle like usual. He was saying that he only gets to c his son for a few hours week and i have him all the time. Which is true but thats by his choice. I have NEVER denied him seeing his son or anything like that. He was the one who checked out. H also said that he is making this easy on me and that he could take S half the time away from me if that was what i wanted. I stayed pretty calm and said was that what he wanted? I cant believe he was playing the victim. I'm sooo tired of him trying to get what he wants by threatening me with our son. wtf!!!! I gave in and said that he could take him but that i wanted to talk about it. I said that i saw his point but that a few extra hours wasnt a big deal but that it wasnt fair to make me change my plans eirther. He said that he couldnt see my point of view, that he never sees my point of view, which is why this happened, and i make him angry w/ everything i say and do. wtf?!! I texted him that i didnt understand why we cant talk about our s and what was the problem. he said he didnt "feel like it". i replied that when he feels like it to call me.ARGGGGG
That's terrible. I don't know if this helps or not but every time I read about what your H says to you I get angry. It's so hard to understand what's driving his bizarre behavior.
The only thing I can think of is that he knows what he's doing is so wrong, and living with that knowledge makes him feel badly about himself, and the only way he can deal with that is to get beligerent and try to make your life miserable to try to make himself feel a little better. It's terribly cowardly and he will need to break himself out of that pattern or he'll eventually have a nervous breakdown.
Accuray
Your H has a lot of turmoil going on inside. Sounds like abandonment issues/feelings of abandonment from someone trusted or important before you and H. What H encounters on his job most likely provided the catalyst for bringing this oil slick to the surface. Or, it could be a mental illness showing itself. Whatever, now H is directing his anger and emotional jungle at you. Not cool.
Limit communication with H to only what is absolutely necessary, ie, dealings with S and essentials on the D. Don't forget, if you have to talk to H and H is abusive you don't have to take that. Tell him if he's going to be that way then end the conversation and tell H you'll talk later after H has cooled down. Don't get sucked into yet another mud slinging contest.
I was going thru my "paper drawer" today looking for some stuff and found a stack of cards. I allways keep every card H ever gave me. I read them all again. They were so thoughtfull and sweet. He said how lucky he was to have me, how much he loved me, how I was such a good mother. What happened to those feelings? How could that change so suddenly? It makes me so sad. I really miss the way we used to be. I dont understand this "new" h at all. Pretty soon I'm going to have to call him my ex h. That really hurts. Everything that has happened the last 3 months was so different from who he was. Im trying to hold on to the hope that he will realize what he has lost, but I dont know if he ever will. BTW how do you go dark when there are kids are envolved? Coyote you said that it might be 2 + years before I'm in the clear w/ H. What did you mean by that?
Today H starts texting me that he has been talking to his uncle ( alawyer) and other divorced men in the family and he has "woken up" to the fact that I have screwed HIM in the divorce. He tells me that if we do not ammend the agreement we will go back to court and fight. Basically he no longer wants to pay half of the daycare costs, whic is 300 a month. I tell him no thats not fair, i cant afford it on my own. We fight some more and I ask him if he can sleep at night. His answer ripped my heart out. He said yes he sleeps just fine and better now that he dosnt wake up breathing next to me. or me breathing one of the two. I got off the phone w/ him and burst into tears. I sent him a message a while later asking why he was so hateful to me, that i WOULD have loved him 4 ever, no matter what job he had, how much money he had or didnt have, or whatever mistakes he had made as a husband. I said i know i wasnt perfect and there were things i would have done differently but i never stopped loving him. he replied sometimes people just cant get along. wtf anyway me made me and offer before we go back to court. i told him i would let him know in a week. he wanted an answer then and there but i said no. i cant believe he said that to me, really really shocked and hurt. to top it off his uncle will be representing him 4 free. nice
He's pulling your string and you're responding. I know it's hard but you have to stop. Nothing good will come of it. You deserve better treatment.
H starts texting me again saying he dosnt want to make this harder on me than it allready is but i have to be reasonable w/ him. he expains all his financial troubles to me. then he sends me pics of the baby which i didnt have. I guess thats his way of trying to say sorry. he said he didnt want to fight. i cant ride this coaster any more.
"Coyote you said that it might be 2 + years before I'm in the clear w/ H. What did you mean by that?"
I should give more explanation here. Understand this is just to help give you a better understanding so that hopefully you don't waste so much energy going over, 'what if I had done this or that, and what if I had...etc etc.' It's an easy rut to get into.
Almost always, when a person/S goes through a radical, persistent change in their behaviour like this it doesn't get 'worked out' overnight. Especially when it's an up/down roller coaster ride like what you've seen from your H.
While it seemed like it to you, this is not something that happened over night with H. He's probably been feeling increasingly out of sorts for around 6 months, maybe up to a year. Like something's not quite right. Finally, like a wound up rubber band it snapped. I've seen this pattern with my WAS and many others. (Read alot on it too.)
As a side note, again, try not to waste energy going over, 'if I would have done such and such this wouldn't have happened.' Often, when a person has finally come out of this they have reported that, 'even if my spouse had been perfect this would have happened anyway.' (I have personally heard this myself a few times from 3 different individuals, my WAW being one of them.)
Yes, there are other WAS's that are basically cheesed off at a few things/a group of things from their S. Behaviour from their S's that's been grating on them for a long time and they've finally had enough. However, these WAS's don't usually do the up/down roller coaster thing. This is not the case with your H.
Your H has to work through this on his own. There's nothing you can do for H. You have to leave H alone while he's off on his roller coaster ride. When H is ready to come out of his 'tunnel' it will be gradual. In small stages. It won't be all at once. Sure, sometimes it may actually seem like H is back but then H will probably scurry back into his tunnel for a bit more. Gradually, this will get less and less. Knock on wood, H will come out of the tunnel for good. Expect a little change though if he does. Usually, when people go through something like this they come out of it changed a little. (There are a select few that, unfortunately, don't come out of their tunnel. Chances are your H is not one but just a small heads up here.)
This is why, as I said before, you can expect at least about a year or 2 before you can 'start' to feel you're in the clear with H.
Keep chipping away at the positive changes you need to make for yourself. One by one. Changes that help you become a fuller, better, more balanced individual. You need to do this for you and your child. If and when your H comes back around in a genuine fashion to see what's up you won't be someone mired in bitterness, accusations and finger pointing.
Now that we've cleared the air on the above,
"I sent him a message a while later asking why he was so hateful to me, that i WOULD have loved him 4 ever, no matter what job he had, how much money he had or didnt have, or whatever mistakes he had made as a husband...We fight some more and I ask him if he can sleep at night. His answer ripped my heart out. "
Again, you have to stop these ILYs, 'why do you hate me' or 'what did I ever do to you' thingy's completely. Otherwise, as you found out you're going to spiral down into H's tunnel. When you do this H will push buttons and H knows 'exactly' which ones to push. Vent here, or with a trusted friend or C instead when you need too.
As we talked about, limit contact with H to only that which is necessary. Contact concerning necessary details with D and child. Keep it clinical and dry. Yes, you'll be cringing inside. You'll want to say this or that. Especially when H trys to bait you with some tantalizing argument material. Resist or you'll get burned more. Again, vent here or with a trusted friend or C when you need too instead.
Things have been pretty bad lately. H continues his crazy coaster rides w/o any ups so to speak. He has outbursts of nasty towards me. I've made no efforts to try to get him to do anything. No ilu's im sorrys, or anything else. I really miss him. I'm struggling. Nothing seems to be working. How do i know if its really over 4 ever or just for now. I need encouragement from my fellow dbs! Give me some hope
Looking for some hope/ inspiration from people....
How's it going TMC? I don't know what I can offer in terms of hope or inspiration other than the fact that you will come away from this experience a stronger more emotionally mature person than when you went in.
When we go through these experiences, we are forced to become "relationship experts" to some degree. If H comes back to the table, or if you find yourself with someone new down the line, the experience and what you've learned will give your future relationships a much better chance of success than someone who is holding onto romantic notions about "fairy tale love" or a marriage with a "soul mate" that requires no work.
One way or another you will find "happy", and the highs will be so much better by virtue of the memory of the lows. You are on the side of the righteous, you are trying to do what is best for your family. Keep doing the best job you can and feel good about that. You have a lot to be proud of.
Accuray
Sorry for the delay TMC, as I said to another I've been out of the loop for a bit. (Holiday festivities, life and such...)
I will get back to you more later. For now, know that with H and where he is there's nothing you can do to influence him now or in the next while. You have to let H twist and turn and generally do his own thing. Again, limit contact with H to that which is only necessary.
"I really miss him. I'm struggling."
I'm going to post something I posted for another but I feel it's needed here as well,
When these feelings wash over they aren't pleasant, to say the least. Say for example, one moment, you're driving the car down the road, everything's fine. Then by chance you happen to pass a favourite hangout for you and H. Or even hear a song on the radio that the two of you have a connection with. All of a sudden, BAMM, feelings of sadness, loneliness, even grief wash over you. (Heck, for the first while I would often have to pull over to get it out of my system or enough that I would be able to drive again.)
Know that for this type of lousy situation these feelings are normal. You can't just sweep them or 'will' them away. They'll come back to bite you on the @$%&! down the road if you do.
Again, keep chipping away at any positives you figure need looking at. As you work through this, you'll get a better and deeper understanding of what's what. The sun does shine again but it has to peek through some clouds first,
Coyote
TMC,
How do i know if its really over 4 ever or just for now.
Would you behave differently if it was forever vs now? If so, what would the difference be?
When you feel even a tiny bit better, what are you doing?
The hope you're looking for is inside of you. Are you more of the type that believes that hope is:
“Hope is the worst of evils, for it prolongs the torment of man”
Friedrich Nietzsche
or
"Hope is the thing with feathers
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune--without the words,
And never stops at all"
Emily Dickinson
When I would ask if it was done for good, it was because I wanted to be able to let it all go and not have to think about it or deal with strategies for how to cope not only with myself and D's, but with him. I wanted a concrete answer so that if I pulled a bonehead move (or something I even thought was) I wouldn't obssess over it later, wondering if that was the staw that finally broke the camels back.
Being the best expression of yourself for you and your kidlet is what's going to give you not only hope, but the best life.
Hang in there.
HUGS
When I would ask if it was done for good, it was because I wanted to be able to let it all go and not have to think about it or deal with strategies for how to cope not only with myself and D's, but with him. I wanted a concrete answer so that if I pulled a bonehead move (or something I even thought was) I wouldn't obssess over it later, wondering if that was the staw that finally broke the camels back.
^I like this, thanks grace!
Well fellow DBs I must be doing EVERYTHING wrong. H is gone and hasn't looked back....yet. Not even a peak. I havn't iniated any contact, I have lost weight (27 lbs), gone through FPU (finance class at church), got a full time job with a 5% raise, found child care by myself, and started making time for friends. I have tried to be nice, understanding, and neutral with my now xh but nothing has worked. As soon as he signed the big D papers he started having second thoughts. Not about us or coming home but about the financial reprecousions. He is like a child kicking and screaming. He send me nasty texts bullying me telling me to let him out of paying spousal maintance. I kept putting him off saying I would think about it, let me talk to my lawyer, I'm not sure, etc.. Finaly after speaking with my lawyer who was confident that the judge would uphold the agreement, I told him no. I wasn't volunteering to change the agreement on my own. If he wanted it changed he would have to go to court to do it. I told him that I was a different girl now and that I was going to stand up for myself. I told hi that he has made it very clear with his words and actions that he didn't care for me or about me anymore and that I had to do what was best for me and our son. He didn't like that. He said if i didn't give in he would try to change the custody arangment. (i have sole custody) He is trying to use custody of our kid as leverage. Sick!!!!! I wanted to give in so badly but didn't. I stood up to him. I hope I made the right decision. I want him to respect me. To understand that my no's mean no and yes's mean yes. He thinks he can bully his way. I just pray that this dosnt push him away for good. He has sooo much anger towards me. He blames me for all his financial problems. I told him tonight that he needs to stop blaming me for those issues. He said he can't stand me and cant live with me that I drive him crazy. Ouch. I said you could have talked to me about it and he said I'm not talking to you about anything. He is just like a little kid. I wish he would be the guy i married and had a baby with. I can see the goodness in him...deep down. I want him to be a man of his word and start living that way. blahhhh this [censored]!!!! Hope i didnt [censored] every thing up
sorry this s@cks and I hope i didnt f this whole thing up
You did fine. Let him continue to rage on. You put your foot down and he didn't like. So much like a spoiled child. Don't let threats of your child scare you off. Talk to your L about his threats. Log everything down and save them.
MB just read some of ur posts. Has it gotten better for you? Has your end goal of reconciliation changed? I to wish there were more resources for reconciliation of d.
Things have been better in my sitch, although we are not R...yet. My W had to go through the anger stage, blaming me, etc. I rode all those out and the thing is that things didn't start to change until I put my foot down and told her enough was enough. That I wasn't the source of her unhappiness and that she had a choice. She could either continue to act like a 12 year old or a mature adult.
Since then, she's been calling me to see how my day is going, does nice things to me, etc. This is after absolutely nothing for 2 years. I may be lacking in alot of things, but patience isn't one of them. LOL.
Do not - DO NOT - let your H bully you out of money that you DESERVE.
So he's discovering that it's more expensive to have two households than one? Boo hoo
So he thinks he can get more custody? This from the man who has been spending three hours a week with his kid?
So he doesn't want to pay half of the childcare costs - so you can WORK and support your child???
Honestly, any judge would probably laugh in his face. Your attorney told you this is a reasonable settlement, then it is. So he is resorting to bullying you, because he thinks he can pull one over on you that way. DON'T LET HIM.
It's a big mistake women make - giving up their financial rights in the divorce, in hopes that he'll come back. Don't let him play you like that. You need all your resources to plan a solid financial future for you and your child.
Keep contact to a minimum. When he brings this stuff up, tell him that's for the attorneys. Refuse to get sucked in.
In retrospect, was he a bully in the marriage? Or was this totally out of character behavior?
(Btw - this is not uncommon, for a guy to agree to one thing, then talk to other guys and decide he got "taken" in the divorce. My ex would probably tell you the same thing, even though our divorce was very fair and I actually gave up a number of things I could have won in court, just because I didn't want to deal with him any more).
Klm, that is exactly what happened to my xh. He said he talked to his "friends" an how much they pay and he has realized he has gotten screwed. To be fair he did not have his own lawyer, by his own chosing because he wnted out sooooo bad, and "gave" me what he thought he could so I wouldnt contest. But again, this was all his choice. He came up with the agreement, he wanted the divorce. He wasnt a bully until he became a cop. At about two years into his career and after the birth of our child he started bullying. So after the big "talk" and he got upset and stuff he txted me a while later asking if I would just not make him pay allimony and us not go through lawyers or court. just let him off the hook. I didnt respond. I dont know what to say to that.
MrB Wow 2 years you hung in there? Impressive. Did your D get finialized? What made it turn around for you? Do tell im so curious?
Again, if your lawyer says it's a fair aggrement, listen to that. Giving up the support will just make it harder for you and your son.
If he truly wants to change things, he can get an attorney.
You are letting him off the hook by not going back to court. As your son gets older things do not get any cheaper. You'll need to support for him.
It takes guts and skill to stand up for yourself in a reasonable (non bullying) way. Sounds to me like it's a good thing for you.
I agree with the others. Consult a L. My W kept telling me the same that I did not need one that all we had was the house. But she got a L and served me. So when I met with mine things changed. I am entitled to 401ks and even some alimony. He is responsible as a father for child support specially if you can't afford to care for them. That is a man's 1st responsibility to financially care for his children. SO DON'T let him off the hook
"I must be doing EVERYTHING wrong. H is gone and hasn't looked back..."
Yes, I know that sometimes it seems that your efforts are not paying out. We've talked about this before, perhaps we need to go over this again. The way your H is right now there really is 'nothing' you can do to change H. I've seen this played out many times before. When a WAS is like this, guy or gal, they're going to do their own thing for a time and it has to be allowed to play itself out. Your H is not well right now but unfortunately there is no chicken soup for your H.
Your H is a brick wall that you're not going to be able to go through right now. It's not going to change any time soon. If that changes down the road, fine. For now, you need to look at what you can control and that's you and only you. Those are changes you can trust.
At that, maybe list some more of these changes you've been trying for yourself. Let us know what's been working for you and what hasn't. If anything you've been doing for you has been met with limited or no success, and you need new ideas, ask here. There's plenty of folks here who will have 'oodles' of new ideas you can try! (Amidst what you are are going through right now, it can be easy to forget about this.)
Speaking of positive changes you can do for you,
"I havn't iniated any contact, I have lost weight (27 lbs), gone through FPU (finance class at church), got a full time job with a 5% raise, found child care by myself, and started making time for friends. I have tried to be nice, understanding, and neutral with my now xh..."
Stop for a moment and give yourself a Pat on the back. If you drink beer stop reading for a minute or three and open one up. If you don't drink beer, stop and partake in your favourite no no, ice cream perhaps, and then come back and continue.
All done now? Good...to continue...way to go! Under very difficult, and screwed up circumstances you have refused to give up and have picked yourself up and have definitely been putting one foot in front of the other. I have personally seen those that have rolled over and have given up. That was nasty. You have not. I'm really proud of you, keep it up! (Perhaps you should stop again and partake in another helping of your favourite no no...)
Let's play a game. Imagine what would have happened if you had done nothing. Continually begged H to come back. Rolled over. Given in to H's demands. Tried to fix everything that H demanded. Then when you fixed those, H demands more and you try to fix those. H bullies you some more. You plead to H even more to come back.
I know this may not be pleasant but stop and take a little time to imagine where would you be if you had gone down this route instead of the one you are taking right now. How would you be compared to now? In the future? How would you be with your child? If H comes through this, would you be more prepared to talk to H as a mature, solid lady who is much more at peace with herself? I'm going to leave this with you,
Coyote