Here's a link to my old thread..
Ugh...what to do? I hope this doesn't show up twice, sorry if this ends up being a repeat. I'm not sure if I accidentally deleted my last post or if it just isn't showing up yet.
Journaling...
For the last couple of days I feel like I could jump right out of my skin. I have never been so stressed and sad in my life. My anxiety is soooo bad right now and nothing seems to help.
I am struggling with detaching. I try to focus on the here and now, but my mind is racing. I keep throwing up the mental stop sign, but that doesn't work. I pray, I have given this to God over and over, but my thoughts keep going 'there'.
I thought I was a strong person, but I feel anything but strong right now.
That being said, I am following the great advice many of you here have given me. This site has truly been a light in a dark place for me. Thank you all.
Saw H at Ds soccer game today. He seemed very tense and sad. He did speak, though, and was fairly cordial. He also told my I looked good- I'll take that as a positive for now. I did bring my A game- only showed PMA and stayed away from hot topics.
I miss him so much. I have always been a very affectionate person, and not hugging or kissing him good bye is painful.
He did ask to see D later in the week and mentioned making that a regular thing. I have no problem with that, but I will protect myself as 25 said. And I'm shutting up and doing every DB thing I can muster right now, GALing and following 'the list'. When I spoke with H after the game on the phone about some logistics, we had a nice conversation about essentially nothing and I made sure I ended the call first.
25- I mentioned to a friend of mine the advice you gave me to shut up- now he reminds me of this, too.
Just wish I could get over this feeling of a shadow over my life.
You & I sound like we are pretty much in the same place right now.
Detaching is the hardest! Even if there is no communication, I still find myself going there.
I have come to respect so many people here, I really wish people could be spared of such pain.
Go get a massage - it can be a helpful stop gap when you are missing that physical touch part of the relationship.
ROMB, sending hugs and prayers your way ((()))
This won't last forever. You're in a tough place now. Only better things are up ahead for you.
This is part of the roller coaster and the dips in track do smooth out over time.
You are stronger than you know, ROMB.
I, along with others here, are in your corner.
((()))
You can do it, ROMB! It [censored].. but you can do it!
Lol... sorry.. "It sux... but you can do it!"
Journaling.... a little early in the day, but it was an eventful morning.
I had to pick up a few things from Hs house, so I called after dropping off D to see if he minded if I came by. He said ok, and I figured it would be a quick in-and-out kind of thing.
So I'm going through my stuff, trying to be quiet because he was still in bed- I turn around and he's looking at me, and I commented on how cold it was in the house. He throws back the covers and invites me to join him. I'm pretty sure I didn't do the DB thing, but I couldn't resist.
Anyway, I'll make a long story short and say it was a great morning. He did start a little R talk (actually tearing up, saying 'why did things have to get so f'd up?') which I just validated and changed the subject. I had my PMA game face on, and he was very affectionate although he did say he was 'hesitant'. When I left things were pleasant.
I swear I had 25's voice in my head saying...shut up! shut up! shut up! And I did.
He ended up calling a bit later to talk to D- his tone was sort of indifferent (same tone he always takes when he is with someone else and talking to me- am I the only one that notices this?). My anxiety crept up after the phone call, but I think I'm ok.
Anyway, I don't want to read too much into this, but I can't lie- it was nice. I am reminding myself over and over this is part of the roller coaster, but I'm trying to stick to my guns a little better if this, in fact, an upswing.
ROMB, enjoy the highs and don't let the lows get you down too much. This does seem to be classical WAS behavior. Pull in, push back, pull in, push back.
You did some things well. You probably know best what you could've done better.
Glad to hear you had a good morning.
I guess I'll leave you with one more clue: The bike tour was in a suburb, it was a fund raiser, and the foundation uploaded an album to their alternate universe page.
Thanks, JB, I know you're being nice- I'm sure I deserve some 2x4s for this morning... Thanks so much for the support, I'm still going to try and find that pic.
DG, thanks, I hope you're doing ok. ((()))
kml, I know what you mean about the massage and I think that would do wonders for my shoulders since I'm wearing them around my ears right now.
LC, JB- thank you so much for the support- the people on this board have really saved me these last few months. I am so grateful for all of you!!
Strange thing. H texted and wants to meet in the morning, using what kind of sounds like an excuse to do it...not sure what to make of it but I guess we'll see.
I wanted to say I'm thinking about you. The whole push and pull thing is not easy to deal with. It's not a normal thing to have to deal with!!
So you also get 25's voice saying 'shut up..." in your mind?? She smacked me with that free 'legal' advice a few times. I'm a very very shy person until one gets to know me, then apparently I talk way too much!
Your changes are showing -- he is noticing. Say little -- do alot. Love your baby. I see positives in your interactions. H will also see those, and may pull back === but keep on working on you. I think a massage is a wonderful idea. I'd love one myself!! That or at least some acupuncture.
Hi IS, I've been thinking about you, too. Hope things are well on your end!
Scheduled my first appointment with a coach, stoked about that! My money is very, very tight, so this is a huge deal for me. The massage is going to have to wait! I had to only purchase one for now, and hope I can come up with some funds for more.
I did see H this morning, it wasn't bad but I can't say it was good, either. I just tried to stay upbeat and positive. He was standoffish, and seemed sad and tired. He had an appt with his C today right after. He asked me to do a favor right after, I did and he thanked me.
My anxiety is back full force today. I did some GALing today with D, but it is so hard to stay focused on anything right now. Detaching is still a vague concept to me. I sure hope my coach can help...
ROMB, I think detaching will help with your anxiety. I have seen a substantial decrease in my anxiety after doing some detaching from my W's drama and emotions.
I think your coach will be able to help. Since money's tight for you, you may want to take some time to prepare for your session. Put together a pretty good summary of what going on right now. Write down your questions ahead of time. I think the more you can prepare, the more you will get out of your session.
Off the wall question: have you taken your D to get a pumpkin yet?
Hi JB, detaching is so hard for me right now, but I am working on it. I took some of 25s 'free legal' advice and that definitely helped with it, I have to say.
That is great advice on the coaching session, I'll definitely do that next time. It was very helpful talking to my coach. After I thought, ya know, that really isn't anything I didn't already know, but she was able to help me focus and create a plan. I've got to come up with a way to pay for more sessions.
I did take D to the pumpkin patch! We have already carved it up- she picked out a witch- and have two more to go!
This time of year is so much fun.
Today, although I'm not letting myself get too excited about it, was a good day with H. I did some GALing at D's school and H was supposed to pick her up and spend some time. I called to make sure he was on time (he is chronically late) and he ended up asking me to lunch! We had a nice time.
After he said his good byes to D, he would normally come around the car and say bye to me- not today. I was disappointed but put my game face on. After I took off he called me and apologized for 'the way he left'. I did my DB best (very proud of myself here and a definite 180) and told him no big deal, changed the subject and got off the phone first.
Yea me! I am really avoiding R talk at the advice of my coach, and that seemed to be where he was headed saying something about that 'it still killed him'. I also didn't react to something that popped up at lunch that was a reminder of a possible D, too. Being able to leave all of that alone is an accomplishment for me.
Overall, it was nice. We had a fun, upbeat time and I did my best with the DBing. Still praying for a miracle!
Gah, another punch to the gut...sometimes I hate FB. Saw a pic of H online with another mystery female.
Why is it every time I feel marginally better something like this pops up? Will this crap ever end?
ROMB...please do yourself a favor.
Get off facebook. Why torture yourself that way.
He has his life right now, and it doesn't include you. A hard thing to face up to as it is. You choosing to check his FB page is a disservice to yourself.
I know it hurts. Take care of you first.
Hi QS,
I agree with the sentiment but I do have mixed emotions about FB- it has definitely given me more opportunities to GAL and reconnect with old friends. Sadly, the pic was posted on the newsfeed of a mutual friend- I wasn't even checking his.
You are absolutely right, though, about him having his own life right now and that it doesn't include me. I have to come to terms with that.
Thanks for stopping by, I really appreciate it.
ROMB, so sorry you saw that. You may be best served blocking his feed. ((()))
I think you are doing a lot of things well. It sounds like you are making progress. Just don't try to get ahead of yourself. Remember, marathon not a sprint.
I am praying for a miracle on your behalf as well.
BTW - I was looking for a clue on the pumpkin thing.
So much for progress. I looked at FB again (yeah, I know, I was actually looking for my mom) and noticed my marital status looked different. He deleted me as his wife. I was crushed and immediately dissolved.
Made the mistake of calling him, he was nasty, and he told me he was trying to delete his FB account all together. Asked me if I would do it for him.
Is this the expected backlash? I have been looking for it, but this caught me completely off guard. I am devastated. Never expected something so stupid as his FB status to hurt so damn bad.
How can one day involve so many highs and lows?
What do I do now?
RMB... wow, two posters with Facebook deletions in one day... that must be some type of record...
If it makes you feel any better, and it may or may not, he didn't delete you as his W most likely. He probably just hid that status from being publicly visible. My W did the same thing a few weeks ago. She didn't tell me she was doing it, just did it and god did it hurt. I actually confronted her it made me so angry, and all I got was "I didn't plan to.. it just seemed like the right thing to do when I was cleaning up my profile".
How is it they all follow the same general script? It's amazing really... But if you look at my W's page from her login it still says she's married to me. If/When she deletes that it will tell me (and everyone btw in a broadcast posting). The day she dropped the bomb on me was the day before our anniversary. She then removed our anniversary date from her FB page that afternoon and FB sent me an email telling me she did it. Boy did that surprise her!
And yes... this is, if you're lucky, the repercussion of the high you had. He got close, too close for his own comfort, and now had to really "reset the bubble" so you know where things are at.
I don't know if it's worth it or not... but about two weeks ago I got fed up beyond belief with my W "resetting the bubble" every couple of days with hurtful/spiteful comments or acts. So I confronted her, nicely and not aggressively. I validated where she is at, that I am fully aware of her feelings, and that I didn't need these repeated comments/statements/acts that appear to be intended to help me understand she still wants me out of her life at some point.
She actually apologized and said she wasn't conscious of doing it. I can't say that it's made it 100% better... maybe 75% better or 50% better, ask me in a week it might change
But it has helped me.
My H deleted from his Facebook friends and changed his marital status to separated. It crushed me. But he still has our wedding pics and honeymoon pics posted. At least for now. I am hoping that is a good sign.
ROMB, I am so sorry. ((()))
As hard as it is, try to not to focus on this.
I'd say welcome to the club, but I'm sure it's not a club you wanted to join. I noticed one day when I logged on Facebook my married to W status changed to just married. At the same time I noticed she wasn't in my friend list anymore. Yes, it hurt. But I was also somewhat relieved. It may have been because I was tip-toeing through FB trying to avoid seeing anything that was going on with my W.
FWIW just a couple days after that, I started getting all these friend requests from people at my church. It's not her actions triggered this, either. It started with people who don't know my W that I've recently become friends with. Maybe you'll get a similar result?
You're on the crazy
train ROMB. Trust me, it will get less crazy
as time goes along.
Hang in there! ((()))
WHG, H, and JB- thanks as always for the support. It does help to know I'm not the only one dealing with this.
Journaling...
After the FB debacle it seems like things started to snowball. H was at an event out of town and called past D's bedtime (she was already asleep). I didn't hear my phone. Of course, he was mad and made a comment about this being par for the course.
Follow that up with, I took some of D's things from the house while he was out. He knew I was going to be there, but I didn't mention taking Ds things because I honestly didn't think it was a big deal. He was furious, and threatened to escalate the D again. Again, he says something about 'nothing has changed'.
I'm confused by the 'nothing has changed' comments- I absolutely did a 180 on my reaction to his anger. Didn't take the bait and apologized. He's attacking me again, and it is over the most inane things.
I am so incredibly sad these days, and he seems completely bent on ending things. Anybody have some suggestions?
ROMB,
I think you did the right thing with your 180. It may take awhile for effects of your 180s to sink in.
I see a lot of H pushing buttons and testing you. He's expecting you to react a certain way. He's testing your changes to see if they're real. When he gets the expected reaction, he's convinced the changes aren't real. When you throw a 180 at him, it's confusing, and he may start to think the changes are for real. So - good job on the 180! Just my crack theory.
Keep up the 180s. Continue to work on being the best ROMB possible. Take care of your D. Try to avoid your H's roller coaster.
JB, I hope you're right about just pushing buttons to see if the changes are real. He definitely does that and I am doing my best not to react. I wish he could see in my heart- lately I surprise even myself with the shift in my thoughts. I find myself being more tolerate and kind, not that I wasn't before, but I was guilty of negative, unkind thoughts. I am really working on the power of positive thinking!
It kills me how he speaks to me when he's in front of other people- there is such an edge to his voice that isn't usually there when he's alone. It makes me think part of his problem is that he has painted himself into a corner with what he has told people about us.
Since all of the drama I posted about last, things are once again pleasant. I haven't seen him, however, since last week. We did have the longest conversation we've had in a while yesterday and it was positive overall.
I will definitely see him tomorrow, please keep me in your prayers! My pastor and the priest that married us keep reminding me that He is the God of impossibilities...
Found these quotes in the foreword of an old book...
"Without Hope it is impossible to find the unhoped for." - Heraclitus of Ephesus
"He who sings to the God a song of Hope shall see his wish accomplished."
- Aeschylus of Eleusis
"Time is the Father of Miracles" - Harirr of Basra
I decided to google the last quote to see what I would find...it led me to this website:
therealpresence.org Very interesting reading...I do believe some things are shown to us for a reason.
I wish he could see in my heart- lately I surprise even myself with the shift in my thoughts. I find myself being more tolerate and kind, not that I wasn't before, but I was guilty of negative, unkind thoughts. I am really working on the power of positive thinking!
Good for you! This is very good stuff! It sounds like you are using this to grow and become a better person. These changes don't sound like they're superficial, they're coming from deep inside. That's the only way the changes will last. Unfortunately, I don't think your H is in a position to truly understand or trust the changes, at least right now. That doesn't mean he'll never come around. But the bottom line is you are working on yourself. I think it will benefit your relationships with other people as well the relationship with your H.
Since all of the drama I posted about last, things are once again pleasant. I haven't seen him, however, since last week. We did have the longest conversation we've had in a while yesterday and it was positive overall.
Good, glad to hear it! Hold on to these positives, while at the same time be prepared for more testing and pull backs. It's all part of the WAS roller coaster.
It kills me how he speaks to me when he's in front of other people- there is such an edge to his voice that isn't usually there when he's alone. It makes me think part of his problem is that he has painted himself into a corner with what he has told people about us.
I know what you mean. You can't focus on it though. You know where you are in the situation. I'm sure my W is telling people something entirely different from her side like, "Oh, we just couldn't work it out" or "We're just heading in different directions", etc. However, I'm not drinking the Kool-Aid. I know where I am on things and that's where I choose to focus.
I will definitely see him tomorrow, please keep me in your prayers!
Will do!
My pastor and the priest that married us keep reminding me that He is the God of impossibilities...
I truly believe this from the depths of my soul. There's a reason I have the scripture I do in my signature, but that's a much longer story...
I believe God is using my situation for a purpose. I am getting occasional glimpses of it, but TBH I don't always see the big picture. When I take a step back and try to think about the big picture, I'm in a better place.
So - when you get too close to the details of your situation, maybe it's time to take a step back and try to focus on the big picture.
Journaling...
Another day in paradise. Had some interactions with H I don't know what to make of. I bailed him out of a car situation, and took him to work with D in tow. He was in a very bad mood. I did my DB best and asked if he was ok, but left it there when he didn't elaborate. Didn't react when he jumped me because I missed his phone call. Didn't react to his temper. Didn't react to him making a snide comment about me texting.
A couple of times today (the first after I asked him if he was ok, the second as I left) he said, 'this is hard'. He also noticed my wedding band (I have decided to wear it regardless until I am no longer married, even if he doesn't) and questioned it. I asked him, does it bother you? He just shook his head no.
Today he is a puzzle, but at least I didn't do anything to make things worse, I think.
ROMB,
Wow! He's definitely on his own roller coaster, isn't he? Not much sense in doing any sort of mind reading. His bad mood likely didn't have anything to do with you personally but could have been the situation or something totally unrelated.
Today he is a puzzle, but at least I didn't do anything to make things worse, I think.
If I'm reading this the way I think I may be, it tells you're starting to detach from his emotions. IOW, he's a puzzle, but it what it is and it's not going to affect how I'm feeling.
I think you did a pretty good job of DB'ing today.
Sounds like it was pretty difficult and it took a lot of strength.
Stay strong! Keeping you in my prayers!
((()))
Thanks, JB. In some ways I do think I am starting to detach from his emotions. Especially when I am attacked for no reason. I was able to not react, but geez, do I really deserve to be treated that way? I love him, I miss him and I still want to reconcile- but not with the person he is right now. This is not the guy I fell in love with.
Last night I did some great GALing with some girlfriends, lots of fun. One of them, incidentally, is something of a WAS. She is unhappy with her H, says she has been the entire duration of her marriage. She is also cheating on him with an old friend.
She actually asked me if I would consider 'one on the side'. I told her no, definitely not. Told her I still loved my h, and that I couldn't do that to someone. She also told me that my H probably has one on the side as well based on the details and I guess she would know! I kind of knew that, but it still sux hearing it.
I'm hoping her hearing how much it hurt me to think my H is cheating will make her rethink her own situation. It did remind my how oblivious some people are to the hurt they inflict.
As much fun as we had last night, I can't help but be a little bummed this morning thinking about that part.
Especially when I am attacked for no reason. I was able to not react, but geez, do I really deserve to be treated that way?
No, you don't deserve it at all. You're taking a lot of crap you don't deserve. I'm not sure it was 100% directed at you, though. Your H appears to be very confused and frustrated. Your 180 of not reacting is probably adding to his confusion and frustration. It's not necessarily a bad thing, though. If you reacted, it'll probably just give him confirmation of his decision to leave. Just my crack theory of the day.
I miss him and I still want to reconcile- but not with the person he is right now. This is not the guy I fell in love with.
I hear you loud and clear on this one. I can resemble this remark.
One of them, incidentally, is something of a WAS. She is unhappy with her H, says she has been the entire duration of her marriage. She is also cheating on him with an old friend.
Wow! The quintessential WAS. Re-writing history and everything. May give you some helpful insight, though.
She actually asked me if I would consider 'one on the side'. I told her no, definitely not. Told her I still loved my h, and that I couldn't do that to someone. She also told me that my H probably has one on the side as well based on the details and I guess she would know! I kind of knew that, but it still sux hearing it.
Good for you! You took a stand. You are doing the right thing. Just because your H is not doing the right thing, it doesn't justify doing the wrong thing yourself. I KNOW it stings actually hearing that, even if it's not a surprise. ((()))
Stay the course. You're being very strong. I'm praying for you.
Need some DB advice!
Here's the latest- H calls today and I didn't answer. My stomach was already in knots today, and I was really anxious about why he would be calling. He hasn't been friendly lately. So then he calls back a couple of minutes later, leaves a message saying he wanted to talk to D. I decided A. it would be a little less predictable for me to call him back later and B. I was in the car at the time and he really couldn't talk to D anyway (we've tried this in the car, he just can't hear her well).
TBH, I just didn't want to talk to him right then, either.
So 30 minutes go by, and I'm in a drive through getting lunch. He calls back, so I texted him I would call him in a few. When I call back, he asks what's going on. I said, nothing, I was on my way to town. He said I was being secretive, and when I asked why he said it was a gut feeling, and why couldn't I answer him.
I told him I didn't hear my phone (I do generally leave it on vibrate), and that I called him back when I could. I will spare some of the details, but he said in a nutshell that nothing has changed, I'm the same as I've ever been, but that it really doesn't matter anyway. Made some snarky comments about me texting all the time. He also says I don't answer questions directly- this isn't true in this case, I just don't feel the need to offer specific details of exactly what I'm doing unless he asks.
He also feels like I should be at his beck and call when I have D. This is nuts, since one of the things we discussed in MC was him not answering MY calls when he has her! He also says I have to tell him where I am when I have her.
For some history on this, my not answering the phone is one of his problems with me. I am just not a phone person. I always call back, but I don't feel that I am obligated to answer the phone simply because it rings. He thinks that is rude.
Intellectually, I know he has to get over my not answering the phone on the spot, especially if we are no longer together. He can not dictate I tell him every detail of my life if we are no longer a couple. I know he needs to miss me, and this is part of that.
What I don't know is what to say to him when these things happen. What is the DB thing here? If I push too much, its going to start a battle. Today all I could say was, 'sorry you feel that way' and 'you really haven't been around me enough to understand the changes I have made in my life'.
Lately he has really been harping on the 'changes' I have made, and I am not bringing them up AT ALL. It is ALL him. But, all of the comments he has made are 'nothing's changed' or 'things are just like they always were', etc.
Sorry for the length of this post. I did talk to a couple of DB friends and I do realize some of this is a control issue, and I will not call him back right away to demonstrate another 180 (in the past I would have called back right away and hung on like a rabid dog- not pretty but true).
EEEERRRRRRRR!!!!! What should I do??
Well, I didn't know what to do so I did nothing... I called him to let him tell D good night, no answer, he called back and told her good night. Discussed plans for this weekend, ended the call. Not a word about the earlier discussion.
Total call time, 5 minutes.
ROMB, I think you did the right thing. I think short and sweet was in order. I'm glad he wanted to talk to his D.
FWIW, I'll offer up something our MC offered up a couple of years ago in regards to anger. He said it's usually related to fear or hurt. I think in the earlier incident, it was likely fear. Fear of losing control. And my DB coach once told me - fear is a powerful motivator, but a miserable guide. I think it can lead to irrational behavior. Just a couple things to think about.
Jb's comment reminded me of something my EAP counselor told me when my sitch started and I was so angry with my W.
Anger is usually just internalized hurt. So considering how much I was hurting and then internalizing it, it was no surprise I was so angry.
It's a fair bet he's very angry as well because while he may not show it he is likely in incredible pain.
Thanks JB and WHG, I definitely think you're right- I do believe he is in pain. I can see it in his face. It makes me hurt sometimes because when you see someone you love in pain, you want to help them. But he won't let me.
I found a great article on finding hope, thought I would share it:
Finding hope
I know ROMB, I have the same feeling. I see my w so sad and in pain. I just want to hold her and tell her it will all be ok. But I stop myself by trying to see through her eyes. Seeing that the hug, comment, offer would only make the pain worse. It only serves to remind her of what her immediate actions have wrought.
I have only held my w once like that since the bomb, and that was when she asked me to.
Yes, y'all are right. It is SO tough seeing our spouses in pain when we know we are the last ones they want to help them through the pain.
Thanks for the sharing the ariticle, ROMB!
Hi there! I just wanted to comment on your H's harping on all your changes and that he feels like you you haven't changed. I think this is classic behavior for the confused spouse who is not sure if what he is seeing is real or a mirage. I think it was 25 who said the time + consistency = changes he can believe in.
Right now he appears to be testing you, trying to draw you in and engage so he can prove your changes aren't real.
Prove him wrong!
The swings in their behavior is amazing. They are just if not more confused than we are. At least we know that we love them and want to save our M. They have no clue of what they want other than some fantasy freedom away from us. No matter what they say, they are thinking about us, the house, the kids, the dogs, finances everything that we worry about. Real you are doing a great job keep it up.
yes, they are definitely more confused than we are!! LOL. WE know we are willing to do the work and save the marriage. They just bounce all over the place. Constantly.
ROMB you are doing well---- keep DBing him!!!!
(and praying for me as well!!)
Thanks so much everyone... it helps to hear other perspectives on it. He does seem to have noticed the change in me, especially since I have not said/done anything to point those things out- it has all come from him. In a weird way, I guess that means I'm doing something right for him to have noticed.
We ended up having quite the conversation today. I called him about some logistics regarding D, and he brought up some issues he has had with me. TBH, some of these things are definitely valid. There were many things I did that I thought were insignificant to me at the time, but were big deals to him. I disregarded his feelings, and I have to own that. I listened, validated, and genuinely apologized for them.
It does frustrate me that he still acts as though I am the only one with any fault in this, but I'm trying to keep my eye on the prize.
There was no talk of a R, but we also didn't talk about a D, either. He did say he hated that it always had to get to 'this point' for any changes to happen. I told him the difference for me this time, anyway, was that I realized that the changes need to be made in order for me to become a better person. If it saves my marriage, great! But I have to make the changes regardless.
I feel like it was a productive conversation, even if things are essentially the same.
On a brighter note, my pastor called me today out of the blue just to check on me. Friends, new and old, have come out of the wood work to offer support. It feels good to have so many people pulling for me, people I didn't even know were there for me. No matter what happens, this has been such a learning experience. I have learned to ask for help, which is something I have always struggled with.
Thank you all from the bottom of my heart, you have all been a blessing to me!
ROMB, I think when evaluate what you're doing and try to figure out what's working and your H is noticing your changes, you can say your changes are working.
I think you did very well with your conversation. You probably did more than you know. This will have some sort of ripple effect. These conversations can be unpleasant and pretty tough. This conversation will make you a better person, regardless of the final outcome.
I had a conversation similar to this with my W back in April. My DB coach had suggested I ask her to talk about a time where I've hurt her and what I could've done differently. This was supposed to be something pretty small, but she went ahead and unloaded on me with the elephant in the room parade. I knew I really had listened, because I just felt ill
. i didn't sleep really well that night or even a few nights after that.
That's awesome that your pastor checked on you. Having the new friends is exciting. You're doing the right thing.
Keep it up. I continue to pray for you and your H and D. Your support crosses state lines. I'm pulling for you, ROMB!
me too --- from up in the bluegrass......
U are doing well.
Journaling...
Got a call from H today. He started bringing up some of the issues we talked about yesterday. I tried to get off the phone in a pleasant way, he wasn't having it. He asked me if I would answer a couple of questions honestly. I tell ya, when you hear that you know its coming, right?
Soooo, he asks me if I wore my wedding band to church today. This was one of the things he brought up yesterday, too. He feels like I never wore my band (not true, I did occasionally forget it, but it was mostly a case of taking it off before he got home so he thought I wasn't wearing it) when we were together. I told him yes, as a matter of fact, I still have it on.
He asked why I'm still wearing it. I told him I intended to as long as I was still married. A moral decision. He said why, because you are not going to be married soon. I told him I would as long as I still was married. He said we are only married legally. I said, yes, but we are still married legally, and before God I am still married. So I intend to honor my vows and I'm sorry if he has a problem with that.
I asked him if it bothered him that I still wore it. He said, yes, he would rather I didn't. I told him I'm sorry but I intend on wearing it anyway.
He also asked who I had been talking to on my cell- apparently he's checked the phone records and saw some numbers he didn't recognize. I told him who they were, some new friends and great sources of support.
I was able to keep my cool, although I am very frustrated and confused. I keep reminding myself, only believe half of what they do and none of what they say. He definitely said some things meant to hurt me or push my buttons, notably that I wasn't going to be married anymore.
Any thoughts out there?
I don't know what to make of this conversation. I don't know if this is a case of testing the changes, or just a case of misery wanting company.
BTW, thanks JB and IS, your support is so helpful! I'm glad to have some cheerleaders out there, especially when it feels like I'm doing everything wrong.
ROMB, I am wondering if he asked you a question he had already determined he wasn't going to like the answer to. If you had said you weren't wearing your ring, would he have come back with telling you that you're still married and you should wear it?
I had a similar conversation with my W about a month ago.
W: Why? We're getting a D anyway. It's just a matter of time. It's coming.
So I feel your pain. I think at least part of it is the 'ol self convincing.
Is it practical for y'all to separate your phone records.
It sounds like your H for some reason is feeling like he's losing control and he's very frustrated. Unfortunately you can't have it both ways, i.e. he can't expect you to do what he wants to do while he's doing whatever he wants to do.
I think each one of us has our reasons for wearing or not wearing our rings. I am proud of you for sticking to your guns.
As one of the guys in my Men's group last Thursday said to me, you are following God in this. You are taking the right direction. I am proud of you for that, too, ROMB.
I think all of this is testing, and trying to drag you into the drama in addition to the fear of losing control.
Sending hugs ((())) and prayers your way.
Thanks, JB, I am trying to do the right thing as far as honoring my marriage. I don't know if it going to help save it, but it definitely makes me feel better about how I'm handling it. I'm proud of myself for taking the high road.
Journaling...
Had some interaction with H after D went to bed- we were discussing plans for Halloween today. We're going to take D trick or treating in his neighborhood. I mentioned to him something I heard about Steve Jobs buying his clothes in bulk, which reminded me of H because that's what he tends to do.
He made a snarky comment about some clothes (some that he bought for me)I left in a bag over there- I told him I must have left them by mistake when I was picking up stuff, and thank you because they will come in handy. I've lost a lot of weight so anything I don't have to buy is a good thing. He makes a snarky comment about 'glad he could help someone else's cause'.
I pretty much glazed over the comment, and just tried cracking a joke about helping 'his cause' instead. Then he hints that I could try on the clothes for him. My DB coach did say don't turn down opportunities when he reaches out, so I told him I would love to give him a 'private show'. Sorry folks, if this is TMI.
Anyway, then his comments turn to 'why not' and 'if that's what you want to do' as if he is just acquiescing to me. I'm thinking, wait? Wasn't this YOUR idea? I think he definitely wants the show, but now he has to make it look like he wasn't asking for it.
I feel a lot of jealousy coming from him, not sure if that's a good thing or not...
JB, I realized I didn't address your questions.
In regards to the ring, I think if I had told him I wasn't wearing it he would have said, 'see, I was right.' I'm glad you asked me that, because I hadn't thought about it that way. It helps, and makes me think you're right, its a test.
As far as the phones go, no, I can't separate them right now without causing a battle. He pays for both of our phones on a family plan, so I'd rather deal with him 'checking up on me' than dealing with him wanting to know why I need privacy. I have nothing to hide in that respect. He already keeps making comments about me 'moving on' (he absolutely hates my GALing) and I think doing that would only put fuel on that fire.
the high road is always best. You are doing an amazing job. Even though it's frustrating and sometimes it's just flat out confusing.....
As I've said, he's confused --- and like JB said, he can't have it both ways. He's losing control and doesn't like the reality of it.
Stay strong.
ROMB, the fact you are taking the high road speaks volumes about who you are and who you are becoming. You are proving yourself to be very strong, even though it might not feel like it all the time.
I guess if your H wants to stop snooping, he'll have to be the one to separate the phone plans. Doesn't he know that snooping just makes you miserable? Hasn't he talked to anyone on this board?
Seriously, you have nothing to hide, and I think you're right - what's the point in you initiating splitting up the phone bill?
The mystery you're creating may not be a bad thing.
Hope you're having a great day today!
Journaling...
BTW, thanks IS, I am really trying to do the right thing.
So yesterday H called late morning and asked me to pick up some candy for last night- apparently he kept forgetting, so I told him I would, no problem. I was planning on stopping by the store on the way over. He asked me to let him know when I was on my way, so I called when I headed out and told him I would be there as soon as I stopped by the store to pick up the candy. He starts getting ticked off, saying it was typical of me to wait until the last minute. ???
I stayed calm, although I have to admit I was pretty mad. You ask me to do YOU a favor, that YOU waited until the last minute to do, but I'M the procrastinator? I told him, politely, that it didn't make sense for me to leave the house just to get candy when I was leaving in a few hours anyway. He then tells me he'll get it himself, and I can tell he's still ticked.
Sorry if this next part is tmi, but it is very relevant.
When we get there, I put on an old costume he had bought me (one of those kinda sexy ones) since he mentioned he was going to dress up to take D out. We start flirting when he gets home, and then stops and says he's not sure if he should since he doesn't want to lead me on. Admittedly, in the past I have reacted poorly to intimacy because it is a big deal to me. The last time we were intimate I think I did a good 180 by not bringing any drama to it after the fact.
So as things progress, he stops and says, this will be the last time. I was crushed. Why would he say something like that? Just then the doorbell rings and he goes to pass out candy. When he came back I asked him why he would say that. He says its not that he doesn't want to, he just can't keep doing that- that he's afraid it will give me false hope, and that he thinks I feel like it will make everything better.
I told him I am well aware that it won't make everything better, and that I'm ok regardless of the outcome. I also told him in the past it was difficult for me to do that knowing he didn't want a R with me, so this is a definite 180. Then he asks me if I just want to 'live in the moment'. I said yes, and you can figure out the rest. Afterwards, he starts crying.
We have some pretty emotional, intense conversation after that, and although I'm sure I wasn't the best DBer I didn't pursue as far as begging, pleading, etc. He asks me why all of this now? Told him losing him was the hardest experience of my life, and I never want to experience something like that again, therefore change is inevitable.
We discussed getting together to talk, but later when I asked him when he would like to do that he said he didn't know, so I dropped it. D also told me something heartbreaking on the way home. She said she wanted us to be a family again. I told her we were, but she said, no a 'real' family.
I'm strangely pretty calm today considering. H is a puzzle and I have no idea where his head is at right now...
I think you handled that pretty well ROMB. Especially the part about setting your boundary on not having him throw hurtful sayings in your face. My W and I had a similar convo a few weeks back. I can say that it really helped with her not tossing those hurtful "distancing" barbs in all the time.
I also think you did just right calling him on it and validating. That's why he's doing it. To make sure you know that he's not coming back. Of course... I tend to believe the WAS is saying that as much to tell you as he/she is to tell themselves, but for now just deal with the obvious part of the message.
Frankly, when my W and I had our convo I felt almost more grown-up than her. Sort of like talking to a kid who keeps saying hurtful things to get a reaction. When you sit them down and say "look, I know you don't like Johnny, but you do not have to say that each time." Or "if you don't have something nice to say, then just don't say anything".
As far as your D's comment... I'd tell her you are a "real" family. That families come in lots of shapes, sizes, and make-ups. You're no less real than you were before. And families are defined by the love within, not the appearance from outside.
Thanks, WHG- I especially like what you said about 'real' family. I struggle with what to tell her, and I will use that.
I am really trying to validate his feelings. Its hard sometimes, because as you all well know, to a WAS everything was bad, everything was the LBS's fault, nothing will change, etc. I do feel like he was trying to shock/hurt me, not really say 'this will never happen again'. I have felt that way about quite a few of his comments lately.
Listened to 'The Secret' again, going to try and really focus on that. Positive thinking certainly can't hurt! Like attracts like!!
ROMB, Wow! He is working really hard to vilify you! That might not be a bad thing that he has to work that hard to vilify you. There's a possibility that means he's struggling and confused. If only he'd work that hard on the M, huh? You are doing a great job of responding to him. Keep up the good work with that. I know it's not easy. Come here and vent or vent elsewhere.
He says its not that he doesn't want to, he just can't keep doing that- that he's afraid it will give me false hope, and that he thinks I feel like it will make everything better.
I'm sorry, ROMB. ((())) I think what WHG said was on the money - he is telling himeslf that as much or more than he is telling you that. That he is telling you he's afraid it will give you false hope may be saying he has a glimmer of hope he's trying to squash in his own mind.
It's hard when you drop back into the relational conversations to keep your DB'ing hat on all the time. I think we all backslide a bit sometimes or tip our playbook so to speak. You were just being honest and authentic. TBH, I think you did reasonably well. From what you were vague on whether the changes were for you or him. IOW, you didn't make it sound like you were changing just to win him back.
I think you doing a great job, ROMB!
JB, thanks as usual for being my cheerleader! I really hope you're right about him. I do believe he is fighting that little guy talking in his ear saying maybe there's a chance. I hope the little guy wins, lol!
I really tried hard not to slide into the 'let's give this another chance' mode. I did manage to not contradict his 'there's no hope' kind of talk, but I'm sure it still smacked of pursuing here and there.
He asked to talk to D today, and the first thing she says to him is that she wants us to be a family again, and her and Mama to come live with Daddy, and that she prayed and so that's what she wants. He was taken back, and when she handed me the phone I just didn't know what to say. All I could think of was, 'out of the mouth of babes' (and an uncomfortable laugh).
I just hope he doesn't think I provoked her to say that- I didn't. She's really noticing the dynamic lately.
ROMB, Good for you; you seem to be doing really well.
I wanted to say SNAP on the 'false hope' line. I got that from my H tonight in the same sort of discussion (see my thread if interested), and I gave the same answer as you - so I'm waiting to see what transpires....
Journaling...
I am grateful for a decent day. Not much interaction with H, but we did have a short and pleasant convo. Day by day!
I've been thinking about some other issues I need to deal with in my sitch. In laws on both sides. My family is pretty supportive, although they would like to see me move on from H- they don't like him. But they understand its my decision. My mom, however, does create problems at times. H flat out told me she was part of 'the problem'.
I think I did make some recent headway there- my mom has a really bad habit of calling multiple times, and will keep calling until she gets someone. This is out of concern, not impatience, because she knows he has a really bad temper. She worries. A lot. She did so recently, he got mad, but I handled it with her and told him so.
I do have a pretty blunt relationship with my mom, so I can tell her how I feel about the interference. Its difficult to think about because I am very close to my family, and my H is going to be very uncomfortable around them. I picture very awkward holidays if a R happens, although I think eventually it would level out.
His family, on the other hand, is a mixed bag. One half (his parents are divorced) is very nice, and continues to make me feel welcome. The other half has not contacted me in any manner since July. In fact, I just saw his mom blocked me (not unfriended) from viewing her FB info. Pretty childish, imo.
She has also been WAY too involved in our issues, and is very manipulative. His siblings are 'incapable of independent thought' (his words, not mine), so his mom tends to be the puppet master there. She definitely pushes him to do things he wouldn't ordinarily do, and I'm dreading when she comes back to town.
The sudden stop in communication is standard MO for that side of the family- another sibling's SO (who is splitting after 25 years of marriage) even commented that no one had even called to see how they were, even after being part of the family for such a long time.
Anyone have any advice on how to handle this?
ROMB, I'm sorry to hear about the family issues. The 'ol helpful friends and family.
I may not be the best one to advise on this. I think everyone has their own family dynamic. So please take any of this with a grain of salt.
It sounds to me like you have a pretty good idea on how to handle your Mom. It sounds like it will be your job to manage that and to re-construct that bridge.
One side of his family does not sound like an issue. I don't see how you have much control over what his Mom does or what that side of the family does. All I can say is to be your best ROMB around them. Unfortunately, you have no control over what influence your H's Mom has over your H.
I'm still praying for you and your family!
ROMB, I'm new to this forum, but I'd like to say that your thread has been an inspiration to me! My ex wife just left for the second time and we are hardly speaking at the moment. But I'm still doing my best to DB and your story helps me stay strong. Thanks and I wish you the best of luck!
Journaling...
Have a friend going through a rough time with her H and recommended this website/book to her. So far it looks like she's making progress already. Thought I would share a bright spot!
Personally I am stressing today, lots of anxiety. Had a not-so-great encounter with H yesterday that left me in a bad place. He was very cold and bitter, no idea why. Mentioned he wanted to work on something this weekend to see D more, and it feels ominous.
I have a feeling the in-laws are coming and that might be the catalyst here. I know he needs to see her more and that it would be good for her. But the last time we discussed visitation things blew up and he started making threats, so this is not something I really want to do again.
ROMB,
Thanks for sharing the positive news! Always nice to hear!
Sorry about the rough encounter with H yesterday. I know it sounds cliche around here, but the more you detach, the less those kinds of encounters will bother you. As many situations as I've followed, it just seems to be cyclical. Unfortunately, the pendulum's swung the other way. Also, unfortunately, the visitation thing is a necessary evil. It's a good thing y'all are discussing it. Try your best to be as diplomatic and cooperative as possible. That's not say that you let him just come in and dictate what he wants, making threats, etc. - there should be some negotiation. Think of it as an opportunity to show him / remind him how the two of you can work together on something.
Again, unfortunately you can't control the IL's influence. You'll just have to roll with the punches. If you're around them, DB them as well.
Still have prayers coming your way.
Thanks, JB, isn't it nice to hear some good news once in a while? It gives me hope, and makes me feel GREAT that I may have had some teeny-tiny role in making her feel better about her sitch.
Big surprise yesterday after I posted. H calls and was just his usual cold self. I guess maybe I was feeling detached, because I just wasn't having it. He asked me if I thought he was out of line, and I politely said yes, I don't think I've given you any reason to treat me that way. And I told him I needed to go, I had stuff to do. He was clearly upset that I didn't want to talk. Told him I would call him when D went to bed.
A couple of hours later I get a text- 'got a sec?'. I call him, and he asks me to dinner. We had previously talked about getting together to talk, and he says maybe we can do that. I wasn't sure whether to be excited or scared, but I agreed to go.
Soooo , we go to dinner, and at first he's still stand-offish but we were having a nice time. I waited for him to say something and he finally asks me what I want to talk about. I just told him he seemed to have a lot of questions before for me, and we never have an opportunity to discuss them without interruptions.
It ended up being some more venting/validating talk. He did say (unsolicited from me) that he still loved me. And that he 'can't go back'. I told him I can't either, that I also do not want to go back to what we had. He also brought up the changes he has seen in me, but he doesn't trust that things will be different. I told him if that's what he believes then he is right, it won't be.
I don't agree, but right now that's his reality. I still think he's trying to convince himself, and now he's questioning his resolve. I hope so, anyway. I think I did pretty well not pushing or pursuing.
Kept thinking to myself, time + consistent change. Not enough time yet.
On another note, I think I did DB the mil a little yesterday. Emailed her and offered her a GC for a restaurant I had over in her area. She emailed me back and thanked me for it.
Got some GALing planned for later today, family day at church, then have some family coming over for the football game. Looking forward to it, hope everyone has a great day!
Saturday turned out completely uneventful. H called late while I was at church, called him back and we talked for a few minutes. Glad he called while I was GALing. There was one small gesture I thought was nice. When he initially texted me it was him asking if he could talk to D. Then he sent another one that said 'and you, too'. I did have fun at church, and D loved it.
Today H texted back and forth with me a bit and then asked to talk to D. He did, we talked about this and that for a minute, and then my spidey-sense started tingling that he was getting a bit irritated (not sure why) so I made up an excuse to get off the phone.
That's been my MO of late, any time he starts getting cranky I beat a path to get away from him. Hope that's the right thing to do?
ROMB,
Thank you for dropping by my latest thread in Piecing and for offering your words of support. I have read through your threads and definitely see some similarities in our situations! I also see that your husband is still emotionally invested in your marriage on some level, so you have great reason to hope that things can improve. THAT is why it's so important that you keep DB'ing like a rock star! I personally think you are doing great. My advice to you is to continue working on detachment and toward your own personal goals and to keep up the great GAL. It took a long time for detachment to "kick in" for me, but once it did, real change in MY life began to happen. I know that even if my marriage wouldn't have been saved, I would still be a better lc4 on the other side of this storm.
Any time you feel like things are completely hopeless, just read through my thread again!
It took us hitting rock bottom - as a couple and as individuals - to start making the climb back up. If we can make it, anyone can!
Take care, and know that I'm praying for you. hugs, lc4
I really like this and wish I could have used those very words when I got "Why now?"
He asks me why all of this now? Told him losing him was the hardest experience of my life, and I never want to experience something like that again, therefore change is inevitable.
ROMB, I still think you're doing a great job DB'ing! Good to see you're DB'ing other family members as well
From what I can see, I would agree with lc4 - your H is still emotionally invested in the M to some extent. I think he is still on the self convincing pattern. And I think you're doing the right thing by shutting down the conversation when it starts going South. You're not taking the bait. At that point, probably nothing good is going to come out of the conversation.
I am also pleased to see that lc4 paid you a visit.
I, too, see some of the similarities in the situations.
Still keeping you in my prayers!
It sounds like you may be making some progress ROMB. I wish you the best and keep up the good work!
Ic4, thanks so much for the support and especially the prayers. Your sitch gives me hope that change is possible!
Ajay, so glad you found something you could use in my sitch. That is the great thing about this MB, we all learn so much just reading other threads. I know I have, both about myself and how to handle situations when they come up.
Thanks, edgarb, its great to hear some positive feedback. Sometimes its hard to see it when you're 'in' it.
JB, I always look forward to your feedback. You are such a positive force of nature, and I am so grateful for your friendship and prayers!
Journaling...
I've been out of town this past week, so I really didn't think I'd have a lot to post when I got back.
I was wrong.
The day before I left D was not feeling well, so I texted H to let him know I didn't think she should go to soccer that day. Offered to meet him later for dinner or something so he could see her before we left. His solution? Asked me to drive her down to his work (an hour and change away). It was an already packed day, I didn't want to waste my gas since I'm pretty much broke right now, but I agreed.
He was totally cold to me, and got irritated when I checked my phone as he was talking to D. When we left he basically didn't even tell me good bye. I was really sad about that, I hate leaving on a trip on bad terms. When I talked to him later I told him that, and it ended up being one of those conversations I try to avoid. He says that while he is 'done', he still has lots of questions as to why this all happened between us.
He did tell me he still loves me, again. I have to admit it made me very emotional. It ended with me telling him I accept his position, although I don't agree with it. He keeps saying his coldness when I see him is because its hard for him. He thinks it will help him detach (not his exact words, but the message in a nutshell). I told him I would have D keep in contact with him on the trip, and he didn't have to talk to me. He backpeddled a little, saying, 'well, we'll just play that by ear'.
Its a weird push/pull with him.
I started reading 5LL on the trip, great book!!! Love it, and it really opened my eyes to some things I coulda/woulda/shoulda done. I did mention to H that sometime I would like to pick his brain a little about some things I read. He was very curious as to what insight I thought I had gained, told him I was just trying to learn from my mistakes, and that no matter what happens it will serve me well in my future.
Next day: H blows up at me because he didn't think I was scolding D enough. She's been sick and a little grouchy, and just doesn't want to talk on the phone much. H says that's my fault. He also said I presented this trip (its been on the books since early summer) with a false pretense, and had he known he would have never paid for it. I was really irritated with him, so I politely got off the phone in a hurry. He did send some nasty grams, but I DBd them.
He had to add as well, 'things are the same as they ever were'.
Basically, the entire trip was H trying to make me mad, start a fight, talk about where we went wrong, etc. I tried to validate where I could, and I at one point asked him, if you're so 'done' why do you keep having these conversations with me? If you find out the 'why' and its an acceptable explanation, how will that change things for you?
I know, I know, shouldn't have said it. There is no point trying to reason with a currently unreasonable person. Not the DB way. I'm afraid my patience is wearing thin right now, and my anxiety is building about the holidays.
We have not discussed Tday plans yet. At all. I'm waiting for him to bring them up, because quite frankly, I'm afraid to.
One small positive. He did end up apologizing after calling me a liar yesterday. Basically this came up because he said I wasn't consistently treating D's cold. I took offense to this, because its a load of crap. I know he was baiting me, but don't you dare say I wasn't taking proper care of my child. There, I draw the line. I think he knew he went too far.
Hoping and praying for a better week. Any prayers and positive thoughts sent my way are greatly appreciated! I am going to a divorce care 'surviving the holidays' class this week, and I really hope it helps.
yes, that's what I've thought about him. He's pushing your buttons, acting angry, being rude, etc... because it is hard for him. I have told you--- i still think -- he's not done at all. It's just a matter of you keeping your DBing skills. You are doing SOOOOOOO much better than I am :)]
BTW, I had mentioned casually the 5LL book to W once. She told me she took the quiz online. Funny, she actually paid attention to something like that. She told me her LL is physical touch -- but quickly added that she doesn't want me to touch her!!!! LOL> ok....got it. *i'm very huggy myself, and when I'm needy, watch out. *
So, about you --
The whole push and pull is his way of building up the wall, chipping at it, building it back, popping his head out.... etc.... He's very confused. You stay strong and a rock for your D. (I know you have!!!) Like JB said, you are DBing great!!! It's always hard when they act nasty and/or unreasonable, but those are the times it's most important to keep our cool (I'm taking notes on what I just said so I can do it myself...lol!)
Hi ROMB,
Just wanted to say that I too know how you are feeling.
My H is going through a return to a cold and irritable stage that I haven't seen since around BD.
It's very disheartening after all the work we've put in, but it's good to see feedback from others (IS, JB,lc4) that there is still a chance for our H's being involved/ invested.
Please keep us posted as to how you are doing with this.
I'm trying to be more detached and quiet around my H, but it hasn't produced any results yet (although I'm only really a week in to the cold and irritable treatment from him).
I'll be thinking of you,
NLW.
ROMB,
I'm sorry about the stressful week you had. I hope your daughter is feeling much better and that you got some much needed rest. Please know that I am praying for your strength, as well as for your husband (these WAS need all the prayers they can get!) and for your marriage to be restored.
Your husband is obviously still very emotionally invested in your relationship; if he wasn't, he wouldn't spend so much time trying to push your buttons. I think he's behaving this way because he is confused about what he wants. As tough as it is to do (I know, because I'm married to a button-pusher, too), try to walk away from him when he starts up with you. Treat him as you would a child who is throwing a tantrum...let him know that when he has calmed down and would like to discuss things in a calm manner to let you know, then walk away (or hang up the phone, delete his texts without reading them, etc.). Soon he will tire of throwing a fit for an audience of one (himself).
Don't worry too much about the holidays yet; just keep taking things one day at a time. Your fight is far from over!
Love and hugs, lc4
NLW and Ic4, thanks so much for your kind words and support... don't know what I'd do sometimes without my DB friends.
Yesterday was nuts. I was telling a friend about H's latest antics, and she said she thought I should avoid talking to him as much as possible. I agree. Unfortunately, H does not. I tried to get off the phone with him yesterday, and he wasn't having it.
First off, and I hope 25 might chime in here, he made a IM comment about me 'offering' him to spend time with D. I have no problem with him getting her, all he has to do is ask. I have been advised however, not to 'offer'. So I ignored the comment.
Later H called as I was out running an errand. I tried to end the call politely and he asked why I was always trying to get off the phone. Told him I'm not feeling well (the truth) and I just didn't want to talk. So he starts in on me anyway, saying he has checked the phone records again and wants to know who I've been texting during the wee hours.
Its a friend (and you know who you are) that has been a great source of support for me. I've told H about him in the past, and how I know him. Apparently, he was bent out of shape by the frequency of the contact. I will not defend myself against a completely platonic friendship with someone who has been there for me. He also asked why I didn't respond to his earlier IMs.
I have to say, I did not respond in a DB manner. And I don't care. Maybe that is detachment finally kicking in, but I am over how he is treating me right now. I can honestly say I don't want him back the way he is. He still completely refuses to see his role in this, and actually told me 'I made him do it'. He thinks that's taking responsibility for his actions.
He says I'm not doing everything I can to save our marriage. I laughed at that- if he only knew. I asked him what it would look like if I was doing everything I could and he said he didn't know. I asked him how I was supposed to know what to do if HE didn't even know??
In the end, I told him I would love to work on our marriage, but it would take a commitment from both of us, not just me. And for now, I am working on ME for ME, not him. He told me previously he wanted me to move on, I reminded him of that and why was he upset I was actually moving on?? That left him speechless.
Sorry if this is a rant, I'm still really irritated by the convo. I'm tired of everything that went wrong being my fault, tired of getting verbally blasted at every turn, tired of being worried, sad and lonely. Rant over.
I am going to have to trust God on this one, and trust He has something better in mind for me. I told my friend that I while I still feel my R with H is not over, I can't imagine God would put me back in such a lousy situation. I have to be patient, I suppose. I'm trying!!
ROMB,
Hugs to you! (((())))
It really seems to me that your H is pursuing you - HARD. It seems like he is launching an all-out assault to push every button he can think of. If one button doesn't get you going, he'll try another one. If he doesn't get results by pushing that one, then he'll try another, and so on. You are handling it like a champ. Keep standing strong and don't let it wear you down.
I don't know what's harder, being married to a button pusher or being married to someone who seems to be all but checked out. I almost think the latter is easier.
I think lc4 has some good advice for you, considering she has navigated this before. Treat like a child with a temper tantrum.
Vent here all you want.
It's a lot better than saying something to your H that you will regret later.
I am praying for wisdom and strength through this, ROMB.
Another bizarre day...
H was exceedingly nice today. I'm flabbergasted. Was kind, considerate, showed empathy...I've been letting him contact me all day, and he has several times.
During his call today, he thanked me for telling him who was clicking through on the phone. And said he doesn't want to hurt me anymore. Not sure how to take that one, but I'll try not to mind read. He also avoided R talk somewhat, I think because I was silent when he brought it up.
I hate feeling skeptical. We'll see how it goes..
JB, I know you and Ic4 are right and I'm trying to get back on track with my thoughts. I just feel physically like I was hit by a bus, so I think combining that with H's antics pushed me until I just couldn't take anymore.
Thanks soooo much for stopping by and your support!!
Another day of H being nice...not much contact, but it was pleasant and short. Not going to look a gift horse in the mouth.
ROMB, I'm glad the conversations have been pleasant recently. I say enjoy it and ride the wave as long as it lasts.
Just be prepared for the standard WAH pull-back.
Thanks JB, I am definitely waiting for that but trying to keep a positive attitude for now.
Had another very pleasant convo with H yesterday, a real head scratcher. We were talking about his work, and how he needs to get some life insurance policies to meet a quota by year's end. I asked if he still had a policy on me he got a couple of years ago. He said yes, and he may convert it to a whole term policy to build some money up in it for me.
Didn't sound like something you'd do for a STBX! I just responded casually, ok, whatever you need to do (it would help him meet his quota). Still not getting my hopes up too much, but it seemed like a positive sign.
We were also able to discuss visitation without it blowing up. Yea!! He is still being really nice- going to try and relax, trust God and have a nice holiday.
Real- I really admire and am inspired by how you are handling yourself and your situation. I'm rooting for your happiness.
Keep up the great work!!
Best!!
going to try and relax, trust God and have a nice holiday.
This is perfect!! I wish that for you, a nice and peaceful holiday!! I wish that for all of us!
what they all said
I've also told you that he's still emotionally invested -- pushing buttons, etc..... DEFINITELY ---- Keep. Doing. What. You. Are. Doing. !!! YAY!
I'm exhausted from my own pile of u know what --- so I don't have any advice other than that. You know I'm thinking of you and am so inspired that so many of you -- you, jb, telemark, etc... have been able to keep things going so well.
(hope to txt soon)
First off, Say and AL, thank you so much for your kindness..
Now let me explain for the newbies why you should never, never snoop.
Yep, I did. Stupid, stupid, stupid. Checked the phone records, no idea what possessed me other than things took a strange turn day before yesterday and my antenna was up. So of course I found a bazillion texts and super late night phone calls. I did refrain from saying anything to H, but he definitely knew something was up. I deflected.
So the real reason you shouldn't snoop, is now I feel like crap. I did it to myself, have no one to blame but myself. Had a good cry yesterday, so now I can add a puffy face to my list of reasons why you shouldn't do it.
H is coming to get D today, and I am not looking forward to that either. I really don't want to see him right now. A friend of mine said I was self-sabotaging and she may be right. Its a subconscious thing, I believe, but why would I do that? I know better.
He did ask what our plans were on Sunday, I told him (I've got a full day planned) and he asked if he could join us for the movie. Not sure what to make of that but it is the first time he's asked to join us on any family venue in a couple of months. We'll see if he shows.
BTW, went to the divorce care class 'surviving the holidays'- did not like it. I found it very depressing, and I'm sure that's not the goal. Maybe it was just me...
Sorry you got a little off track and got hurt in the process. Do you know who he was texting/talking to? If not, or even if you do and it hurts you, try your best to focus on the good things right now...improved communication with H, him asking to join the family at the movies, etc. You really need to celebrate the baby steps (and they are great ones!) and not get mired down by what you found.
When my h came back to me, it was over a process of events happening...like the things that are happening for you and your h! I was pretty well detached once he started coming around again, and I looked at the situation with NO expectations and with the attitude of, "if the worst thing that happens is we get a divorce but can have a good co-parenting relationship, then that's pretty darn good!". I think he saw that in me, with total lack of pursuing, and that was very attractive to him.
I'm not saying this will happen for you as well, but I do see a lot of similarities in our sitches and see your h is still quite attached. So...take a deep breath, enjoy the time together as a family and keep working on that attitude of detachment.
Also, if you feel like you'll be tempted to snoop again, maybe you should separate accounts. We did when we first separated, and that was a huge relief for me.
Love & hugs, lc4
Thanks Ic4, I am definitely not expecting anything despite the recent turn of events. I have no idea who he was talking/texting, but I do know that did me absolutely no good. Won't be doing that again.
It was really strange today when he came to get D. I am soooo glad I didn't say anything about my snooping. He was actually very nice, and told me about how someone from D's school contacted him about getting a family photo that was due. I knew about the photo, and I had mentioned it to H some time ago. I just didn't want to ask again after the down turn we've had over the last couple of months. How could I ask to pose for a family photo, ya know?
When he brought it up today, I asked him what he wanted to do. He said we should get one this weekend. I was floored. He could have opted to pose individually, but he asked to do one together. We took it when he came to pick up D. Then before he left, he gave me a big hug. I was really shocked, he has avoided me like the plague for the last month when we've seen each other. He also told me I looked really good (don't you know that was planned on my end, lol).
He had previously asked to join D and I for the movie we're going to tomorrow. Today, he also asked to come to lunch and the shopping we were planning before the movie.
I'm not getting too excited about any of the above, and like Ic4 said, at the very least improved communication would mean a better co-parenting situation. Going to get myself back on track and focus on having a nice holiday. Looking for a few new recipes to try so I can do something different this year!
Have to admit, I'm a little anxious about H dropping D off later. We'll see how it goes!
Journaling...
H dropping D off was pretty uneventful. He didn't stay at all and seemed in a hurry. No hugs.
Called him to see if he was still going to meet us today since he didn't mention it. He said yes, and seemed a little bummed. I asked him what was wrong and he said he was lonely. He had friends waiting at his house to watch the fights, so that explains his hurry. He actually asked me if I wanted to come over to watch the fights, although I really don't think he meant it.
I'm going to church in a few minutes, and then we'll meet H for lunch, some games, shopping and a movie. Hoping for a great day!
Hi real-
I hope you have a great day also.
Just remember to have no expectations and to go with the flow.
Thanks so much DG, I definitely have no expectations. I have learned that the hard way! He does seem to be in a different frame of mind, but I've also been here before with him.
I often think, what would I do if he asked to reconcile right now? I certainly wouldn't move right back home, not without some serious work and consideration.
It does feel great that he actually wants to spend time with me- its been a couple of months since anything like this has happened. I'm going to enjoy today, for today, and keep on keeping on.
Thanks for the support!! Hope you have a great day as well!
It is great that he is initiating spending time. You are on the right track -- i will say that again. PERFECT work in not saying anything about the snooping. The one time I snooped, I saw texts that made me want to poke my eyes out --- and I never mentioned it, but I never did it again!!!!
Getting sep. phone accounts -- very good idea-- but for some reason hard, at least for me. It seems kind of, I don't know... final? No ? That's why I'm STILL without a cell phone right now. My phone died --- and I am supposed to go start my own account separate from W's. I havent been able to make myself take that step this week..... I know it's the right thing to do, but....
Anyway, like DG says-- no expectations!! Roll with it. That seems to be what u are doing. As soon as I find the courage to get a new phone account, u will be first to know
ROMB - great job on mentioning the snooping. Also, good job an recognizing it's something you shouldn't have done. Hopefully, you've learned your lesson.
I'm glad to hear about the positives, especially with your H initiating contact. I agree with IS - you're on the right track. Now, just be patient and persevere. Be prepared for future pull backs. Hopefully, the overall trend will be in the right direction - it appears it is.
Still keeping you in my prayers.
Thanks IS and JB,
I hear you on the separate accounts but there are a couple of reasons why I can't. First and foremost- no money. He still pays for the phone and I simply can not afford it. Second, I think he would view that as a huge negative, like I was trying to hide something. He has checked my phone records as recently as last week, so if I suddenly got a new plan it was cause a big stink.
Yesterday was a mixed bag. We were having a good time, and I could tell D was loving having her family together.
H was playing with D and I told him to hand me his phone and I would take a picture. Unfortunately, when I pulled up his phone he had his texts pulled up. Of course, now I know who all of the texts and late night calls were to. And I swear I wasn't even snooping, it was just right in my face. The one I saw is the one where he was thanking her for her 'advice' and asking her to dinner. I had to fight the urge to vomit.
I think after he handed me his phone it must have clicked in his brain what I was going to see because he started acting overly nice and strange after that. I played it off and didn't say anything, but my heart was pounding out of my chest.
After that we went to a movie, and during one of the slightly sappy songs (kid's movie) he started crying. And cried through most of the movie. Afterwards I asked him what was wrong, he said it just made him sad (meaning being with me under the circumstances). I tell you what, after what I saw, and then the downturn in the mood, I was kind of ticked.
This was a day I had planned with D to have a good time. I didn't invite him, he invited himself and then goes and ruins it. I don't know if that is selfish of me, but I was over it. I don't mean to sound cold about his being upset, but geez! Can't we have a good time without drama?
I need to post more later about some of what we talked about- hope you guys can give me some insight.
H was playing with D and I told him to hand me his phone and I would take a picture. Unfortunately, when I pulled up his phone he had his texts pulled up. Of course, now I know who all of the texts and late night calls were to. And I swear I wasn't even snooping, it was just right in my face. The one I saw is the one where he was thanking her for her 'advice' and asking her to dinner. I had to fight the urge to vomit.
ROMB, I am so sorry!
((()))
I can't believe how you held it together. Probably if you had called him on it, who knows what you would've heard? The truth?
Probably not.
He still appears to be very conflicted. Keep working on being the better option.
I don't think you sound at all cold for being ticked.
Heck I would be, too. It didn't sound like you acted on being ticked - good for you! Lashing out would probably not get you any closer to your goal.
Wow, you did an AMAZING job of handling yourself! There were a few circumstances in the past few years when I caught my husband texting or emailing his ow (like you, without snooping), and I always erupted in anger. Guess what? That was never the right option, and I always regretted it later. You showed incredible self-control in not mentioning it at all. Like you said, I think he knows you know, so it will be interesting to see if he asks you anything about it. All I can say is just keep on doing what you're doing! You are incredible at keeping your cool!
I agree with JB; your husband seems very conflicted. It's so obvious to me that he is still emotionally attached to you and the life you represent: loving wife, sweet family, consistency, etc., yet he's a bit interested in what the "single life" has to offer him. I can tell you this...my husband was the same way, and he discovered after time on his own the grass was indeed greener at OUR home. I hope your husband does the same, before it's too late.
I hope you and your family have a happy, drama-free, BLESSED Thanksgiving!
love, lc4
Thanks JB and Ic4, I honestly do not know how I kept from losing it. I believe it was some sort of Divine intervention, because the 'old' me would have flipped. He has still not said anything about it, and I don't intend to. At this point, all I could expect would be an argument, and JB is right, I definitely wouldn't get the truth so what's the point? More hurt and aggravation?
I was going to post about some of the stuff we talked about, but I realized its just more of the same. Nothing really new to report. I am tired of hearing it, however. It feels good to stand up for myself and tell him to stop beating the dead horse. Enough already!
Ic4, I know you have a point with H's internal conflict- I think that's a big part of the problem right now. Does he want the 'family life' or the 'single life'? I also know I can't really help him with that decision. And I also know time is running out for him to make it- it took me a long time to get here, but I know I deserve better. I know I will be ok, no matter what. Its his loss.
Tonight at D's soccer he was actually very nice. He also kissed me good bye! That was a shocker, and while I enjoyed it I'm not expecting anything from it. We actually had a good laugh because D was in the back seat saying, 'stop kissing daddy on the lips! You gonna make him sick, Mama!'.
I love that sweet little girl soooo much...
ROMB,
Reading your post reminded me so much of my H.
He also cries at the drop of a hat in movies that we see now.
And yes, trying to separate the financials is something that my H cannot cope with at all.
I think it's down to internal conflict - he wants to go but doesn't want to leave us. I know it doesn't matter what's behind it all, but it does help to hear others' experiences of their H's.
I am mighty impressed by your composure in the face of those phone messages. I've been there, too, and know just how that heart-beating-out of your-chest feels when you make the discovery.
Good on you for not losing it. As lc4 mentions, it's not going to make anything better to blow-up about it. Arguing is a pointless activity that only makes our situations worse.
I'm glad to hear you saying that you are now at the point where you know you deserve better than this. That really is a major step forward in the process.
I am mighty impressed by your composure in the face of those phone messages. I've been there, too, and know just how that heart-beating-out.
I am too. DB'ing with icewater in your veins!
Very admirable.
I think it's a good sign that your H has that internal conflict between the "single life" and the "family life". I think my W still seems to be focused on the "single life".
Tonight at D's soccer he was actually very nice. He also kissed me good bye!
Just another case of his internal conflict. Hope you have your neck brace on, so you don't get whiplash from the push and pull.
You know I am still praying for you, too! ((()))
Thanks so much for stopping by NLW and JB, but I think the ice water running through my veins turned to mud...
Well, it seems like a life time since I've posted here. So much has happened. After D's soccer we had a really good interaction on Wednesday, and I finally found out his plans for Thanksgiving.
He was spending it with his family, and then going to his friend's house. Unfortunately, this friend's house is where I believe he is running into 'texting girl'. I know she was a friend of his BFFs. I did invite him to come by that day, but he didn't show.
I ended up being really sad on Tday. He called briefly and that was it.
The day after we had a terrible marathon talk. He started out being ticked off because he asked for a weekend with D, and I made the mistake of wanting to check the calendar first (?). Guess I'm not allowed to make plans now.
That set off a really long, completely draining talk. All the usual topics, I failed miserably at DBing, and he also through in there he wouldn't be spending Christmas with us at all. I'm afraid I lost it coming so close on the tail of a really sad Thanksgiving.
So, it was nothing new really, everything is still my fault, nothing has changed, he can't let go of his anger and resentment, blah blah blah. He asked me why I thought things would be different. I told him the only thing I could tell him honestly, was that I am different and that I made those changes for me. But I also told him, if nothing was different for him that it would never work. That's a true statement I think, right?
Anyway, he sent me a nasty text later and I didn't respond. Haven't heard from him since.
One bright spot, a sweet friend of mine planned a girl's weekend for when H will have D to cheer me up. What would we do without our friends??
I was watching for you (still no c phone...) and hoping ur thanksgiving went well. I'm sorry he's still being nasty. If u remember, W won't let go of the past with us either --- 6 years later. I think that it's their problem, not ours. We've tried to move on and make things work/right, and that holding on to old hurts is keeping them stuck as we try to get in a better place.
You are right--if nothing is different for HIM, it won't work. He has to realize his part in it, his problems, and his inability to let go and trust. I've failed quite often as you know, but I keep plugging. You and I are doing it mostly now for our kids.... We want an intact family so badly, both of us. BUT we have to make sure we keep those healthy changes and the boundaries. I have a real problem with boundaries!!
I'm sorry he also remarked on Christmas. That seems like a spur of the moment thing to hurt you. This time of year is difficult in normal times, but in these, as gunny's post is titled "Times that try men's souls" it takes a lot out of us. Especially those of us who are trying to keep our families.
I can honestly say I think of you daily. I've been slammed with work and school - (good in a way b/c I can't worry as much about W and all the bs) I haven't even checked the 'alternate universe' for over a week or more. About 150 papers to read, 3 books to read, and a lot of bureaucratic end of semester nonsense ---- and I again honestly say...I think of you and D EVERY DAY. EVERY DAY. I'm still here--- after about December 11 or so when school ends --- I hope to have more time-- but then I'll just obsess about things...LOL. (JK I hope!)
I still think he's far from being done and is struggling madly with himself. Hang in there my good friend. Hang in there!!!!!!
Anyone remember me?
Its been forever since I posted, talked to a good friend of mine who made me think about all of the good people here. For anyone reading this, I pray for you all every day and have popped in and out to keep up with everyone.
Although its still a crazy roller coaster, my sitch is largely unchanged. We still have moments of good and bad, but no D filed to date. I think I am getting to a better place detachment-wise, but I still struggle with that from time to time. Trying to do a better job facing my fears.
The holidays were very difficult, although Christmas eve/day ended up being peaceful- H was out of town. Twice in December he told me he wanted to 'work on things'. This month, his tune has changed. He says he is committed to a D, but doesn't pursue it actively. Not sure why, or if there is some strategic advantage to waiting for a D? I've wondered if he was waiting for his latest tax return.
I would be interested in how many of us are dealing with WAS's with higher than normal narcissistic qualities. Its something I've always known about my H, but some reading I've been doing lately has me a little off balance. My H definitely has some of the more unsavory N traits- gaslighting, highly critical, blame-shifting. He has a very different public persona than private. If you believe what you read on N there is no 'fix'. In fact, everything you read says to run like He!!.
Anyone have a take on this?
I know with God all things are possible (thanks JB). It definitely adds to my fear, however...
ROMB - You are still remember but I dont remember the time line of you sitch could you give us a refresher.
Seems like you are in a good place right now. You should be proud cause it takes a lot of work to get there.
It is interesting what you say about narcissistic traits. I would have never thought of my H as a narcissist cause he is such a "good guy" and always wants to help and fix. However he wanted to help and fix to fed his ego. He is not at all critical.
Anyway you have given me something to think about.
Welcome Back