Here are links to first two threads.
Too Tired to Fight Grace, Love, Compassion, and Faith Officially 6 months separated as of yesterday. It's hard to believe the huge differences in my life from 6 months ago to now. The personal growth has been difficult but very rewarding. I am surrounding by a ton of friends who love me. I am mending broken relationships with my family. I am getting closer to God. I am getting closer to myself.
These things have not come without pain. My w and I have had little to no contact in 6 months. She shows no signs of slowing down D, or wanting me in her life. I think the 2nd has been the larger pill to swallow out of the two.
It's been difficult not seeing myself as a reject when I am clearly being rejected.
However I continue to push forward. Now actively in the D process I struggle with loving myself and loving my w at the same time. Figuring out the difference of when I am being emotional (hurt and angry) vs. when it is fair for me to stand up for what is fair.
It's something I've never done before in my relationship with w. I know if I can do it, I will finally break this horrible cycle my w and I created the past 9 yrs.
I know that I have not been as positive as usual. That I have been working through alot of fear and pain in the past few weeks.
I appreciate the support you all have shown thus far, and the continuing support I know you will provide.
Val, concentrate on how much you've grown, and you've grown tremendously. Applaud yourself for that! There are a lot of positives above. As you know, most of those positives would have never happened had it not been for your circumstances. I can certainly identify with a lot of the above.
We're all here behind you and pulling for you. ((()))
Val I totally understand the feeling of rejection, that hit me. I often feel like a reject. But I was thinking when I read that comment is that I'm really not a reject, trying to look at myself differently. I'm actually a great person, with baggage. I have been mostly a good husband and father with flaws. W has said during our stich. And Guess what, we are the ones here trying to save our selves and our families, where are they? No where, I bet they haven't even done any research or read anything about saving the M. My D is right now having her 1st C session, not because W thought she needed it but because people here educated me and encouraged me to get my D some help. So it worked. What I'm trying to say is that you are a great person even when you are being rejected. We are here to support you.((( Hugs)))
Thanks JB. I do need to remember to applaud myself and remember all the good changes.. and to be thankful for this opportunity to grow. I've been trying to stay in my hurt/anger phase as I have been avoiding it. However I acknowledge it is part of the process, so I'm trying not to run from it. Honestly, It has gotten me down a bit.
Thanks Rick for the reminder and you're absolutely right. We are good people. I'm so glad your D is in counseling. It's a smart move.
Journaling...
Things have been moving in a positive way the past 48 hrs. I'm starting back to work. I took off quite a bit of time as I was very distracted and had a hard time doing my job 100%.
I booked two more Disney commercials so I must have done a good job back in August. I'm budgeting a 3D movie and I am GALing the sh!t out of my weekend working with a director who was in "I am Legend".
Heard good news from my sister. She's finally getting all of her kids under one roof. Her eldest daughter, who is 16, told my sis she wanted to come home. Talk about 11 yrs of prayers finally answered.
Not much happening on the D front. Pushing 2nd mediation to November most likely due to schedule conflicts. It's been a week and I've come to realize that I will not be able to rush this. One day, I want to fight w like hell for what is fair to me, the next I just want it to be over with and give in to her demands. She may want to end things quickly, but honestly.. I do need time to think about stuff. I refuse to not take the time to look inward when it comes to big decisions such as these.
The only thing that I can really move forward on is getting my own health insurance. She may not have meant it this way, but I am very uncomfortable with the fact that she said "she could have taken it away from me at any time". Not to mention, that it hurt my feelings.
It still continues to surprise me with the stuff she does. I really do want to think the best of her but there have been too many times that she has come to a conclusion in her head and has acted on it regardless of how it financially affected me or us as a couple. So I can't risk this. I don't want to go to the hospital and find out my insurance is gone. I don't want to be made to feel bad that she took care of me (when it was her idea originally), or that this is financially hurting her. I know what my w makes and what her bills are.. my insurance doesn't hurt her unless she is p!ssing away her money.
But regardless of what is true or not true, I think getting my own insurance is a loving move for both of us. If I can afford it, than it protects me from all the possibilities my w could use against me and it's loving towards her by freeing up a couple hundred dollars a month.
We'll see what the insurance broker says. Hopefully this is one of the bazillion things I can cross off my list.
More venting vs. journaling
Trying to schedule another mediation time is exhausting. I'm the one who is always checking with our mediator if he is available.
I mean.. I understand that he's my pastor.. but now that she has meant him and has agreed to keep using him.. I feel that she can reach out to see when he is available.
Sorry I'm trying to be loving.. but I don't want this D. I feel like I'm doing the coordinating and that I am playing the same role I always play in our r. One that managed the bills, took care of things.
I took over the bills last year because she kept forgetting to pay stuff.
It's not a role that I wanted to play in the r.. at least not to that extent. Now I'm still playing it and we're separated.
Urgh... help please?
V sorry you are having this trouble.
You know at some point I asked myself:
Why do I accept in someone, much less than I am committed to give myself?
It is a very good question to ask.
How do we stop that?
Val do something different, do a 180 Do NOThING NADA.See what haPpens. You don't have to answer to her unless there is legal reason I would sit back and let her do some of it. She chose this.
Ps thanks for the post cried most of the way home hugs
Val, I felt much the same, as if I was doing most of the work. She abandoned us and now I’m helping her, really, seriously? I even spoke to my L and C about how I felt on separate occasions. Although they said it very differently what they told me added up to the same thing.
This flies in the face of some of the advice here about having the WAS do all of the work for the D. It is where I settled b/c it gave me the most peace.
If you’re doing most of the work then you’re in control of the schedule. When I first met with my C I was very overwhelmed and felt out of control. One of things we worked on first was to help me get some sense of control over my destiny. Setting the pace enabled me to only move forward when I was ready.
It did heighten the tension when my STBX realized she was not getting her schedule met. So be ready for some pushes. Keep it fair so when they come you can honestly push back with honor and integrity.
I know the temptation to just give in and get it over with. I need to be able to look myself and my children in the face and know I not only tried to stand for this relationship, but for my quality of life and their eventual inheritance, that I exhausted all my options without sacrificing honor and integrity.
I know there are no little Val’s yet. When you choose there will be. In the mean time be fair to yourself while standing. The reflection in the mirror is yours. ((()))
Trying to schedule another mediation time is exhausting
....
Sorry I'm trying to be loving.. but I don't want this D. I feel like I'm doing the coordinating and that I am playing the same role I always play in our r.
Hey Val,
So don't put your energy into it.
It isn't loving or unloving to not take over responsibilities for her in this case.
It's
her divorce. You aren't going to stop her from getting it, but why would she think you would put your energy into helping her do it?
Especially if you have a lot on your plate. There is absolutely zero reason for you to make helping her jump through the logistical hurdles any kind of priority.
If I were in your shoes, I would put it at the bottom of the list.. after things like stocking up on toilet paper, learning some new recipes, and getting adequate sleep.
Val, do what's right for you. If it's wearing you out, I would do as AC above suggested. If you've agreed to do it and you want to be sure to continue using your pastor, just plod along and put it at the bottom of the list. I know this is very emotionally and physically exhausting. Besides, you don't want it anyway, so low priority at best.
V sorry you are having this trouble.
You know at some point I asked myself:
Why do I accept in someone, much less than I am committed to give myself?
It is a very good question to ask.
How do we stop that?
TG - In some ways I always have. She's been so troubled. Always struggling internally. So when she starting dropping the ball on stuff or backing away emotionally, I
thought I was being loving by stepping in. Being her knight in shining armor. Letting it be "ok" how she acted or felt.
It's odd that she doesn't want me yet she still allows me to play that role.. or will get upset if I don't play it. In some ways, I don't even think she is aware of it.
How do we stop that you ask?? I don't know. I understand the concept of tough love (for a better word) and boundaries but I've never really done either.. or when I have they have been not respected or twisted into coming from a place of anger.
The sacrificing, putting her first.. I have down pat. But I have a hard time seeing boundaries as being loving.
It's something I'm working on though.
Been thinking about what people have been saying. Of course I agree with alot of it.. of course I'm afraid to actually do it. Much prayer is needed from me.
I realized that the 22nd is a Saturday. I know my pastor spends that day with his family. I'm not going to pretend that I don't want to be the one to coordinate anymore.. BUT.. I'm also not comfortable with asking my pastor to give up family time. I know his heart is full of love so he wouldn't mind serving.. I just don't think it's right to ask when it doesn't make a huge difference if we meet in November.. other than the fact that I know she wants out asap.
So here is what I am thinking to send to w. Feedback is greatly appreciated.
-----------------------
W,
M (our pastor) dedicates Saturdays to spending time with his family. Although I have no doubt of his love or willingness to serve us, I feel uncomfortable asking him to give up his family day, especially given the fact we meet at his house so his family and roommate will also have leave.
With our schedules conflicting throughout October, we can revisit our next session in November.
Best,
Val
----------------
PS. I really suck as this. Communicating with w causes so much anxiety and fear. I wish I had more confidence in this area and less fear on how she will respond.
Val, I think you can make the first paragraph a lot simpler. It's probably more information than you need to provide. You can just state your pastor's simply not available on that day, or that it's not going to work. JMVHO.
. You can just state your pastor's simply not available on that day, or that it's not going to work.
The truth is that I don't know if he is available. He says that he'd prefer not to do weekends but of course will help in any way.
I just feel uncomfortable being the one asking for help knowing this. I feel uncomfortable asking him for this.. for my w.. not for me. Maybe I can add if she wants to ask him to go ahead, my schedule is open that day... or something like that.
Val, JMO and keeping in mind I am an old grunt with all the tact of a hand grenade. I suggest keeping it short and simple.
And with this in mind.
I just don't think it's right to ask when it doesn't make a huge difference if we meet in November
W,
M has previous engagements booked for every day I/we have available for the next three weeks pushing the next session to November XX.
Best,
Val
Like I said all the tact of a hand grenade, so rewrite it as if you see fit, but keep it factual, the less emotive the better. Pick a date in November that your pastor and you can agree to. Use it for XX, and let your W meet it. We’re talking about three to four weeks of lead time. If it is important to her she should be able to juggle her schedule to accommodate yours.
Exude confidence and control of self.
Val, JMO and keeping in mind I am an old grunt with all the tact of a hand grenade. I suggest keeping it short and simple.
.
Ha. Well for an old grunt with the tact of a hand grenade.. not bad at all JS.
As always.. you make goods points. Self Confidence, control of self, and less emotions.
Check, check, and check.
Journaling -
Trying to stay awake as I work overnights this weekend. I'm by nature a morning person so w/o lots of coffee - Val gets extremely grumpy.
Was talking to my best friend today about my family. All of my family lives in Pennsylvania. My m very much separated me from them. I hardly went home or felt like I fit in. I found myself not dealing with their health issues or found myself angry at them. I always felt like it was because I was the "gay" daughter or the "gay" sister.. but I'm not so sure that was the reason. I'm still "gay" after all..
I always felt justified in my actions.
But when my life came crumbling down this past year, they stepped in. It was like our past didn't matter. The fact that I was "gay" didn't matter. They wanted to be there for me and I wanted them to be there.. it was a huge step in a positive direction.
It was a huge step that has drastically changed our relationships.
When my sister found out she was sick.. she did some pretty crazy things. hurt my parents, used alot of us for money. She dipped into drugs, lost her kids. I remember one day saying to her a couple years afterwards "You made your bed, now lie in it".
What an immature self-righteous biatch I was.
Today I realized that in the past 6 months.. I have truly forgiven my sister. We are finally building that relationship that we once had. She is an active part of my life and I am hers.
The same holds true with my mom. It's like my anger seems so silly. It's far better to forgive them and enjoy them than to live being angry at them. That didn't help any of us.
Life is too short for that.
It actually makes the thought of reconcile with my w scary. Like I couldn't have both.. because when I was with her, i didn't. I realize I was part of that problem.. but even now when I got so excited for my sister.. I wanted to text w about it.. then I realized that she would have a negative reaction to it.
I'm even thinking about sitting down with my dad. Next to my w, no one has hurt me as deeply.. I was talking about my w one day to my mom and somehow it switched to my dad (w/o even recognizing it) and I found myself yelling over the phone like the 9 year I was when he walked out.
Kinda creepy how many similarities my w and father have.
But I think I'm finally ready to let that go. I'm thinking about sitting down with him when I go home for Christmas and telling him how him walking out made me feel. Not to throw it in his face.. but I think I need to tell him so I can stop punishing him for it. If I stop punishing him for it.. I can heal.. and if I heal.. I can forgive.
The thought of moving home to be closer to the family bounces around in my head. I sit here crying to them about my pain and my mom and sister never tell me how they are doing.. they tell me I have too much on my plate. They don't want me to worry.
Thanks pretty f-ing loving.
But I'm not blind.
I know they are in pain and I kinda want to be there. My mom always acts so strong, but she isn't doing good. I'm starting to ask myself if my career is really worth not being part of their lives. It's not like the doctors said 6 months to live but their time is limited. Will I look back and say - I don't regret moving to LA or will I say - I wish I would have been home to enjoy those last 3 years with them??
I don't have the answer to that question anymore.
Just alot of new feelings for me. I've been homesick for the past 2 wks. I haven't felt that in 10 yrs.
Wanting to forgive and love instead. I want to do that with w too but I just don't know if that's possible while I'm still hurting and going through a D.. but I know it will be possible one day.
Anyway.. that's what's going on in my head at 1 in the morning.
V-
I'm in a pretty dark place right now, but I wanted to let you know I'm thinking about you and I'm here for you.
V that is some carthartic thinking you are doing.
sometimes we can get so focused on the pain and pushing it away, we stunt the process of healing which requires feeling the pain.
I used to tell people here that your pain will guide yiou through this process.
It is true and I still beleive it but only if you allow yourself to listen to it. To feel it.
To look it right in the face and decide whether it serves you anymore.
If you want it part of your life anymore.
That applies to every stage of healing of the LBS.
From detachment to acceptance.
And the very cool thing is you find it applies to everything and everyone in your life.
That it is part of life.
V:
There's alot on your emotional plate right now. The D, reconciling with family, contemplating a career move if you return back East.
I can't offer you the sage advice like the vets here, but what I do know is you'll handle it gracefully and respectfully as you determine the best course of action.
In my thoughts...
W just texted asking if I remembered the code to our storage unit.
I'm ignoring her text for now. It feels rude and I wouldn't want her to not answer me.. but texting me is the easiest solution. The unit is by work and she could just walk in and get it from the manager.
I also kinda want to know what she is getting out of it. She does have school stuff but at the same time... I wouldn't want her using OUR camping gear with whomever she is dating.
I think this is an example of DBing going against my nature.
You're not really ignoring her. You are failing to respond. Splitting hairs? Yes!
You are busy living your life and will respond when it is convenient for you to do so.
A storage unit code is not life or death, and she can obtain it elsewhere.
Val, I agree with JS. Not ignoring - there's just higher priorities right now. When you get to it, you get to it.
Don't worry about what she is getting from the storage unit. You can't control it, so don't drive yourself crazy thinking about it.
Thanks JS and JB.
Your both right. I didn't even get home until 1:30a due to work and poker night with my friends.
She ended up texting me later saying she got it taken care of. I knew she would figure out a way.
It was a little upsetting to have her text me about the storage unit which was so impersonal when she emailed me such a impersonal birthday wish.... but I didn't stick on it too long.
Thank you both! This 180 of stopping to jump when she calls or tough love or whatever you want to call it is extremely difficult for me. It feels wrong inside on alot of levels so I greatly appreciate the support!
It's being loving from a distance Val.
It's extremely hard but think of it this way...your W left because she needs to feel independant and understand she can live without you, but in the long run...she still needed you for a storage unit code that she can very well get herself, which in turn means you're still on her mind.
Revel in the small victory I say lol!
I agree with OZ. She is getting a bit of a chance to stand on her own --- and she still contacted you.
It's not over.... Val, you are doing amazingly well!!!
@ OZ. That is definitely a different way of looking at it. I don't doubt that she thinks of me.. I only doubt her ability to take any actions towards me. I just have to continually remind myself that the 2nd part is in God's hands now. I can only control me and most days that is handful.. lol.
@ Shock. Thank you. Most days it does feel over though. We've been apart for a very long time w/ almost no contact. It some ways.. I feel like I have adjusted so much to my new life.. the past has gotten fuzzy. There is so much joy, happiness, and positive growth in my life. When I think about an r with w, I keep thinking "but I don't want to go back.. I don't want to give those things up again!"
I did spend most of the morning crying. I just felt like an a$$hole. I question my actions and on if it was truly portraying the Val I want to be. My friends were proud of me.. They aren't necessarily fond of the way w treats me.. so their opinion was biased.. as if I did it to get back at her.
But I know myself and as hard as it was.. I was portraying the Val I want to be.. or at least I think so. I do think it was loving from a distance.
Sorry I'm having a really hard time getting my thoughts to formulate into complete sentences at the moment.
Val-
Don't apologize for your feelings-ever.
We all have our highs and lows, which is why it's an emotional rollercoaster.
Going against what feels natural is so hard to do at first, especially when the last thing you want to do is make them think that we don't care.
However, I found that I had to detach from my H for my own mental health. My instinct is to call/text/stalk 24-7 but I know it will only hurt me, and not help.
Eventually....the new habit becomes a way of life.
Yes to what DG said here: "Going against what feels natural is so hard to do at first, especially when the last thing you want to do is make them think that we don't care."
I remember, Val, you posted your thoughts on this several times. I struggle with this daily. I want W to know I still love her and want R. BUT I know for her to want to be with me, I have to show her I will be ok without her. My mind reels. Val, you have done such a great job with the situation you are in. You express your emotions in a way I can only aspire to. I, for one, have great respect for your strength. (((((((())))))))
Thanks DG and Shock for the reminder.
Sent w an email about meeting for another mediation session. Email exchange.
V: the 22nd does not work. I can do the 1st or 3rd. Please let me know once either of them are confirmed.
W: the 1st works. What time? 5:15 again?
V: That works fine for me however if you want to check and see if that time/ date works for mediator, that would be great.
No response yet.
That was the best I could do at setting this boundary without feeling like an ahole... Although maybe I was being a bit weak too.
Who knows???
Val, I think you did just fine. I have no qualms with it. She'll respond when she responds.
^^^^^what JB said.
As Sandi's sig line goes "Do what works"
Praying for you Val. ((()))
Thanks JB.
@JS. I don't know if it works but I think this may work for me.
Journaling - be warned.. I think this may be a long one.
I've been in a funk.. for awhile. My posts have been anything but upbeat because in alot of ways.. I've been anything but upbeat.
At the beginning of September, I felt like I was about to explode. I felt that although I was upbeat and positive.. I was in turn ignoring this deep feeling of hurt and betrayal that my w has caused me. That it some ways, my positivity had reached a point of almost being shallow because it was getting to difficult to ignore those darker feelings.
So I took the plunge to just sit in them. Scared that I might lose control, many people advised me that in order to move on - I had to feel those things. I had to get through this stage.
It's been a rough two months. I've been having a hard time getting out of bed. I cry almost daily. I have screamed a few times. I punched the sh!t out of my pillow. I told God that I just can't handle it. The pain too great, the fear too strong, my faith.. too weak.
I think I kept expecting in these two months that this would just blow over. That I wouldn't have to fight through it. That one day - I would wake up and I would have accepted my situation.
Silly Val - why would this journey be any less difficult than the road traveled thus far??
I think for me.. it's become more difficult because I feel that it's time to let go. To let go of my w and our m. To move forward with the knowledge of who I am and who my w is and that our journeys are no longer connected. To let go of my fears that if I do this or do that.. she won't think I love her.. or a certain action will doom my marriage forever.
To let go and start making my life about ME vs. about her.
The truth is that my w walked away from our m. It wasn't perfect but it wasn't bad. She chose to cut me out of her life entirely. She chose to let me hanging when I was in my car accident. She chose to take money from the account w/o telling me. She's choosing to get a D. She's choosing to say our m only counts when it financially suits her.
Those are her truths. I have validated her messed up childhood. I have understood the burden she must have felt being the breadwinner for the past 3 yrs. I have looked deep within myself and have done my damndest to change the valid points she has made known.
I do not regret this.
But understanding is not excusing and I need to stop painting my w as such a pretty picture. I need to stop painting myself as such an ugly one.
I was very much a doormat in our relationship and I have posted many times about how my w treated me. In short - she didn't treat me that great. I didn't set up boundaries and in trying to love her so much - I took away any reasons for her to love me. I just started becoming this weak, sappy, spouse who would enable my w instead of growing with her. Instead of growing myself.
This has to change. Because I want to change. I don't want to be punished for my feelings or being told I wasn't worth it. If my w feels those things.. I cannot change her but I can't let her feelings dictate who I am. If this is tough love - so be it. If it guarantees the demise of my m - so be it. DBing is about saving us right... then so be it. It has to be this way..
Because she is only ONE person.. one person in my life.
I worked on House yesterday. I had like 30 people say how excited they were for me. Should I really allow the fact that because my w didn't say anything beat me down - he!! no.
Should I let it beat me down that my wife doesn't want a relationship with me when I am constantly being loved by others - he!! no.
Can I be sad - yes.. but I'm tired of crying over her. I really wish we could have made our m work, but I will survive. I will stop giving her power over the happiness of my life. I will stop giving her power over my self worth.
Now if only I could delete her from FB... because the truth is that if anybody else had said what she said.. she wouldn't be my friend... Stupid feelings.
Thanks for listening to me rant. I hope this is one of many posts that will continue to help me get through this dark tunnel. The tunnel will only end when I have walked through it. When I have stepped into the light and said "I made it".
(((V)))
I can relate to so much of what you just said.
Yes, you do have to feel those feelings. As much as it hurts and suks you have to feel them. The good news is they won't last forever, they really won't. I found that very hard to believe at first but it's true. It's all part of the healing process.
It is hard to let go. I still struggle with it, although some times are easier than others.
She is only ONE person, and there are so many people that love you, that's pretty amazing.
You give such wonderful, thoughtful advice to others (including myself) and I have no doubt you'll come through this stronger & better than ever.
Val,
I have watched you grow through this journey. There is still more growth and journey ahead of all of us. Will we have the courage to take the journey and grow? I for one will not stop, for when we stagnate we begin to waste away.
Face the fear; embrace the change, and look back occasionally to appreciate your courage and journey. It is something to build upon.
Could it be that you feel ready to “drop the rope”. I have dropped mine many times, picking it up and dropping it again. It is back there somewhere in the darkest portions of tunnel you spoke of.
Pain is a warning. It lets us know when we are injured. It also tells us we are not dead. I believe the pain of this experience tells me I will love again, for I am not dead inside.
You are not dead inside. You are loved and will love again.
The pain I felt carrying the rope was an indication of the harm it was doing me so eventually I ceased to pick it up again.
You are coming through this portion. What direction lies ahead is for you to decide. You will use these experiences to set your heading. There is no single path. There is no right path. What lies ahead has only been vaguely charted. What lies between your present position and your destination is the series of experiences that shape the journey.
Discoveries to make, life to savor.
This is/was some of those experiences. Learn from them Grow from them.
Thanks DG - I appreciate your kind words.
@ JS - Yes.. I do feel ready to "drop the rope". It's soaked in acid and I feel my hands are too far gone to hold on any longer.
That was kind of a gross picture.. sorry.
But there is a part of me that isn't ready to give up. There is no pride in this saying.. I just don't want to. I feel like I'm putting conditions on my love for her - although I also fear that if I don't.. I will hang on forever because of that love.
But there is no reason to try and get blood from a stone any longer.
Journaling - My wife got back to me pretty fast. Our next session is November 1st. I got upset with her that she responded so fast.
I get upset at her for taking care of something. I mean I want her to be responsible, but because it's in regards to D.. I don't want her to be??? Because I show her tough love and she doesn't buck against me.. I get angry at her??
That's dumb.. and conditional love.
It's like if I admit the positive in her, I can't continue to be mad at her for leaving me. If she is changing for the better, than I use the justification that she is the same w.. because she left me.
It's like I have to be right or the better person because I'm the LBS. Because I need some explanation for her need to cut me out of her life.
I just need to pray to God for a changed heart in this area. If I show her tough love and she reacts in good way.. or if I set boundaries and she respects them.. then I need to be okay with it. I need to be okay with more 180's not equaling recon or even her speaking to me.
I need to not let my hurt and pain twist my intentions to show her tough love or loving from a distance.
The first round of 180s were easier because they were benefiting me. It was me working on myself.. loving myself. These next 180s will be much more difficult. They will require me truly loving my w. In a time of such pain, I will have to love her more than I ever have. I will have to love her the most in a time where she has loved me the least. Man.. the timing is a b!tch.
I'm sad that this is really a lost cause. I'm sad that I will be rejected regardless of what I do.
"I'm sad that this is really a lost cause. I'm sad that I will be rejected regardless of what I do."
V...this looks like acceptance to me. And that's a good step. It's a painful, heartbreaking, gut-wrenching step, but it is the one most of us will take sooner or later. I am at the same place; I do not want to accept the end of my marriage, but I have to.
Once we accept the circumstances and know that we did all we could do, but can do no more, we can move forward without the burden of "what if's".
Telemark is right, acceptance is a good step. I wish I was able to accept that my M is coming to an end and all that I know and cared for will be changed forever. But just like V, I don't want to give up, I don't want to lose that love for my W, I don't want to let go.
Unfortunately, no matter how hard we try, no matter how much we love and care for our S, no matter how many 180's we do, or how much DBing we do, in the end, it all comes down to what our S wants. We can make ourselves the best that we can be, but if our S doesn't want to be a part of it, then it is over. It [censored], it hurts, and it isn't fair, but that is the simple truth of it all. I'm not saying that anyone should give up hope, only that in the end, there is little that we can do to change our S minds.
Val, feel how you feel. I am glad you can express it and feel comfortable enough with us to express it here. Remember moving forward is only a prelude to moving on. Moving forward makes you stronger.
After moving forward for a time you may find you have moved on or you may feel ready to make the decision to move on. IMO this will happen much later in this journey.
Do we need to focus on where we are, on whether we are moving forward or on? I don’t think so. What difference does it make so long as what we do is healthy for us individually?
I think we need to focus on doing the things that make us stronger. Focus on doing the things that make us complete, better and happier. Focus on doing these things for us as individuals first. Focus on the actions rather than the status.
Do rather than be and when you can no longer do but must be, be in the moment now. Do not let the past drag you down.
Of course we will reflect on what was, and we may feel pain when we do. I am suggesting we cannot allow the past to dominate our present. We are sad and this is normal and healthy. We grieve for what has been or what will be lost. At some point we need to put the grief away and move forward, lean into it. You are doing this each day.
(((V)))
@ TM - Maybe it is acceptance. Maybe it is me giving up. I really try to not limit God's greatness.. but then again we all have to be open to receive God's grace and love.
@ JS - I completely agree about moving forward vs. moving on. I have always been a "driven" person. Setting goals and seeing that if I met this goal, I have succeeded.. if I go back in any way, I have failed in some way.
That kind of thinking doesn't apply for this situation. I will continue to go 2 steps forward, one step back for awhile. As long as it's still forward, it's still progress.
Journaling - Had a fantastic shoot yesterday. It was a good bounce back after a very tough shoot with the commercial company last week. The director, DP, and myself were very worried going into yesterday. But we came out on the other side on time, with a good product, and a few extra shots! (no not booze..
)
Got alot of "great jobs" and it was a "pleasure working with you". The director came up to me, gave me a genuine "thank you" and said "See ya on the next one!".
Bonus!
I got asked back to work on "House". I'm pretty excited about that.
Still having some troubles moving forward on the D front. Having a hard time doing things that move me in that direction. I used to be afraid that not moving forward meant I was "hanging on". Now I just really don't have a desire to get on that rollercoaster. Life is so much calmer when I don't have to deal with sitch, don't have to deal with w. The longer I go without talking to her, the better and more stable I feel.
Will have to look into that.
Woke up this morning though wanting to put my ring back on. I took if off over 5 months ago because it was painful to keep on. I felt it was stopping me from accepting the sitch I was in.. stopping me from thinking about me. I did it in alot of ways to protect myself when I was very fragile.
Today - I wanted to put it on to remind myself that although I am in this sh!tty situation.. I am still married. My w may think "Our vows do not apply anymore" but I still feel they do.
Maybe it's because I am longing for some companionship. There is a director that I am insanely attracted to. Director/Assistant Director relationships are like marriages in many ways. We have built a really strong one in the past 11 months. There has been no flirting and or anything of that nature. I just find myself thinking about her often.
I don't want a relationship with this director because she too is coming out of a long relationship so we are both dealing with our BS. She is very guarded in alot of ways and I need to make sure I'm not attracted to another version of my w.
But I still have these thoughts that are like "well let's just see how things unfold over the next couple of years.. after her and I have completely healed from this time in our lives".
WTF!
Anyway, I do not want my current w or my old m. It was unhealthy and very harmful to me. I'm sure harmful to her also. But I am committed to treating us in a way that is healthy for the duration of our m. Because of that, I feel inclined to put my ring back on?
Or is it another way of holding on?
Or a way to uphold myself to our vows and marriage when I am feeling tempted?
I don't know I'm rambling.
((((hugs)))) Val. Hope you are doing better today. Too soon to think of any R but it must be nice to feel attracted to someone else. I think that maybe you are feeling stronger and feeling attractive yourself. All good things. Funny that you do commercials and shoot movies. Remember the movie the War of the Roses? I was a host at a restaurant were they had their get together on the opening day of that movie. I met all of the actors. A director from 21 century came up to me and asked if I was interested in a major part in some coming up movie. Unfortunatetly acting wasn't my thing. W was pissed that I said that. Look at me now I'm living the movie.
Hang in there
Val,
I am happy that you are having success in your work life. It doesn't define you, but it sure is nice to be appreciated, right?
Your feelings of longing make good sense and are something that I think you should feel good about. I would try to savor those feelings and appreciate that you aren't numb. Honor yourself for having these desires and appreciate them.
I wouldn't act on those feelings though (at least not right now). I know you won't.
What does the ring mean for you? Do you feel better seeing yourself as still honoring your marriage in spite of your wife's decision?
Obviously the ring is symbolic, so I wonder what that symbolism is for you at this point?
@ Rick.
Yes I do feel more confident and more attractive. I think that is because I don't have w putting me down anymore. No more worrying about if I look too femme, too butch, too skinny, too fat. I can just be me and I'm finding out.. that I like me!
Too funny about your experience. The film business is fun. Doing 12-14 hr days sometimes makes it difficult to have any kind of life.
@ Aeo
Good to hear from you. I know you are going through some sh!t of your own so I appreciate you stopping by! It won't define me but I will allow the reasons that I am being appreciated will. I have dedicated myself to being a more positive person. The hard work ethic has always been there.. but the soft touch is a new addition.
No i won't pursue another r. I know I'm not ready.. my hormones can just chill out.
I don't feel the need to wear the ring as much today. Yes I do feel better seeing myself still honoring my marriage. It's who I want to be. Regardless of how this is going down... I still love my w and want to respect her and be thankful for the way she contributed to my life.. no matter the outcome.
I just feel I will be tested throughout this process. I have been seeing L fees ranging up to 10K.. I don't have that kind of money... so it's up to me to think clearly, w/o emotion and ride the wave of what is fair for both. I'm not sure I am capable.. hopefully with God's help I can..
Journaling - Speaking of that director. Going out to dinner with her tonight. Work meeting only but should prove to be a good time.
She invited me to her Halloween Party. I will have to seriously think about that. There will be ALOT of women there.. I'm not sure I want to be tempted.
So I'm officially starting to GAL the Sh!t out of my weekend (or week) RIGHT NOW! Plans include dinner tonight, kicking a$$ on set, Halloween parade in Weho on Sat, Hiking on Sun, Leadership conference on Monday, and back on "House" on Tuesday.
That should keep me pretty busy.
I am going to have to reschedule my mediation due to work. I do feel bad that it's all based around my work schedule.. however I need to work as much as possible.
I'm making the decision to take care of my own insurance (since 1) wife has threatened to remove me & 2) her offering to pay for it has clearly expired).
Plus my mom is really struggling so I'm paying to have a cleaning lady come to house once a month. I would love to pay for two but that just isn't possible.
These are not my w's problems.. they are mine but that means I have to do what I have to do.
I did think about telling w though because I really don't want her to think I'm trying to use this time to win her back or that I'm avoiding her.. but then again.. she will think what she wants regardless of what I say and do.
Hi Valeska-
I didn't realize the field you work in.
How awesome! It sounds like a lot of hard work, but also a lot of fun.
This W that you are attracted to is a good thing.
I think it's smart that you avoid any type of romantic interaction with her, but at least you know that you are not dead inside.
So I'm officially starting to GAL the Sh!t out of my weekend (or week) RIGHT NOW! Plans include dinner tonight, kicking a$$ on set, Halloween parade in Weho on Sat, Hiking on Sun, Leadership conference on Monday, and back on "House" on Tuesday.
Love it. LOVE IT.
I'm glad to hear about all these positives for you, Val.
I understand about the attraction thing. After awhile, you really start to crave that one on one companionship. However, you are doing the right thing. Your guard should be up. It could be a slippery slope if you're guard's not up.
@ DG. It truly is awesome. I couldn't imagine doing anything else.. except for possibly being a park ranger.. idk why?
@JB - Slippery slope indeed.. but as much as I don't want to.. I still love my w. Until that has lessened.. there will be no r for me.
Journaling -
Well leave it up to w to put a taint on my GAL weekend. I'm not saying she does this purposefully.. just always seems to time out that way.
She sent me an email saying that she will be taking me off her health insurance as of December 1st. I wasn't surprised.. after she threatened me at mediation.. I knew it was a matter of time. Whatever her intentions or reasoning doesn't matter.. it still hurt.
I've come to realize that not being legally married combined with my love for my w and our union may mean that this outcome may be unfair to me.
One doesn't think at the age of 24 to have a document saying what we are entitled to should we dissolve our domestic partnership.
One doesn't think when co-buying a car with a spouse that if she doesn't want to give it to you.. she doesn't have to. That neither can move forward until the other concedes to it.
These are very painful lessons in life. Ones that I will never forget.
So the question is how do I move forward now protecting Val? The truth is that majority of my fears in regards to w comes true eventually.
In some ways it means that I need to move this D forward. Because I do see my w becoming more and more selfish. Please do not think I am spewing anger - it just is.. what it is. She has no problem doing whatever is necessary to look out for herself.
I think what I need to do first is to settle our savings account. If we were to split it 50/50... it would be slightly unfair to me. She took out more money for this separation than I did. She took out money for her way of life. She has even decided to try and even it out by saying that I should pay for my health insurance for the past 6 months... something that she willingly wanted to do when we separated.
But if I cut my losses now.. I don't have to worry about her coming up with other reasons that I can't legally combat. Not cashing a check because she thinks I should help pay for divorce costs. Who knows what she will come up with.
So I lose a couple thousand dollars.. it's better than risking the whole thing. I can build a new life with what I have.
I just want it to be done. I want to stop waiting for the bombs to drop. Stop being surprised when she does something.. even though I know it's going to happen. Stop living in fear that because I'm not legally protected.. she will take it all.
I want to stop living in fear of her. I want to move on from her.
If I just have my savings and she takes both cars and all of our stuff. I will survive. God has proven for the past 7 months that he will take of me. Financially.. emotionally.. if I can learn to rest in my faith.. there won't be any fear.
It's just stuff and not worth the stress and craziness that continues to run through my body. Having her in my life repeatidly showing me how little she cares.. is not worth it.
Does this mean I'm done.. I think so. I think I have to be. I can take back what control I can and continue to live for me.
I wanted it to be this big step.. me putting my foot down and fighting for what is fair financially. Maybe it's time to see what is fair for me emotionally.. and I think putting this behind me is.
God wants us to love, but he doesn't want us to be a doormat. He doesn't want us to put ourselves in situations where we are hurt and people treat us badly.
This is not meant to come off as saying I don't love my w or that I don't want my marriage to work... but I need to take care of myself.. and I've been trying to keep her there and manage expectations and not close the door..
.. but I need to. I need to or I will walk away with nothing. I need to or I will truly lose myself in this process.
Took my first step towards getting control over my life in this situation.
I went to the storage unit this afternoon and removed all of my stuff. When I first arrived I was nervous that it would be empty or that she would have changed the lock. Neither of those things would have surprised me.
But it was all there (minus a sleeping bag).
It was a hard process. There were some things that I wanted but remembered I gave them to her as a gift. There was a beautiful wedding card from her grandmother. I took most of the wedding stuff, but left that for w. Her grandmother loved her and me.. but she died a few years ago. I thought w should have that memory.
A g/f came with me for emotional support... and to make sure that I will still loving to me. If you think of my m as a coin (Val on one side, w on other).. my thoughts and perspective on this focus almost exclusively on w's side. Worrying that what I do will hurt her, worrying about pissing her off.
Some of these thoughts are true.. ie - it will piss her off.
Some of these thoughts are not true - hurting her. I've never done anything to purposefully hurt her.
So when I took the camping gear and our wedding stuff.. I took it knowing that it wasn't because she didn't deserve it or as a punitive or an angry move, I took what was important to me so she couldn't do anything to it.
I took it so I knew it would be safe.. and that I could have some control over what I am gaining/losing in this D.
I don't know if that makes any sense.
It was very symbolic closing the storage unit door. Shed a few tears there. As my book with my w is coming to an end.. the chapters are bittersweet.
So sad to lose her.. but also thankful to not be with a woman who made me feel unworthy.
I came across a few letters from her today addressing those issues. It's clearly something we struggled with. In some ways it validated all the feelings I have in regards to her treating me poorly.. in other ways.. it made me sad for her that it was a struggle she didn't fix.
I felt worthy today.
As I was walking to my car with my stuff in hand.. I felt some weight lift off my shoulders. I prayed all morning so I feel like God was answering.
I feel like a took a step towards the healing process.
I took a step in making sure that my w didn't control my things or the things that I cherished in our marriage.
I did it without anger towards w
I did it with love towards me.
I walked out to my car feeling more free.
Each step will be very painful, but knowing that I will feel more and more weight lift from my shoulders will be amazing. To gain more and more control over my life will be great.
It was a hard day.. but I think it was a good day too.
That's great Val. (((())))) Trying to get out of limbo land must feel good. Having control of your feelings, I miss those days. But it will happen again not sure when but it will.
"I went to the storage unit this afternoon and removed all of my stuff. When I first arrived I was nervous that it would be empty or that she would have changed the lock. Neither of those things would have surprised me"
I have been having thoughts like these^^^^^. Every time I come home from work I wonder if she changed the locks or when we go to court in a couple of weeks weather she will ask the judge to remove me? pretty sick stuff. Hang in there
Val, I recently have gone through a similar trial. I don’t have a long perspective to look back upon this from, and time has not proved the wisdom or outcome so what follows is mostly opinion.
I think most of the actions we take to secure ourselves are merely taking control of our lives in the present and enabling us to secure a more pleasant future. I equate this with detachment, for it permits me to be effected less. The more I am in control of myself and my immediate environment the less likely the wind howling outside will affect me, and the better I can begin to ignore it.
Provided we do this without rancor, in a fair and equitable manner, removing feeling of injustice and anger we enable them to detach also. They may not see it, but if we can see our actions within our sense of honor we can be at peace with it. Just as anger breeds anger, peace eventually breeds peace.
You have no control over how she will perceive your actions. There will likely be some probing for weak points. There may be some negotiation. Perceived weaknesses and emotions may be used as levers. Hold to what you believe is fair. Weakness and hand wringing are not attractive.
I believe you are doing what you believe is just. I do not perceive fault with it. I know it is difficult. Please know you are becoming a better person with each positive you perceive. They are foundation blocks for your future.
There are pitfalls and trip wires yet ahead. They will be negotiated with honor and strength
(((Val)))
Val, I intended this thought to make it in the last post.
Reflection often occurs in quiet peaceful moments. This is often when I begin to ruminate over this sitch. I wonder if our Sps don't have a similar experience. I will not set myself up for disappointment hoping for an outcome from their reflective thought, but I do hope to provide an opportunity for it.
Good for you Valeska. I'm sure it was hard to sort through your shared belongings, but it's necessary.
As hard as it was to move all of my H's stuff out into the garage, it felt better once it was done.
You are worthy. I'm glad you realize that now.
Thanks DG!
@ JS. Your opinion makes as much sense as your wisdom. Only time will tell how this hand plays out.
Journaling - W agreed to split the savings account 50/50. It would have been silly for her not.. but I am very thankful she said yes.
A friend asked me what about "x - she spent or y - she spent". I said I was letting it go. I'll admit that I had a brief moment of doubt, but for the most part I am at peace of this decision. I think the doubts will continue to rise, but I will not allow them to control me.
Hopefully it will be taken care of as early as Friday.
I went to a "Get Motivated" seminar on Monday. Some very awesome speakers such as Gen. Colin Powell, Bill Cosby, Joe Montana, Lou Holt, and many others.
For a business seminar, there was a ton of spirituality involved. I must have heard to "Forgive.. and let go" 5 or 6 times.
I think God might have been trying to tell me something
Maybe some day soon that will be true for me.
I have a pretty busy week ahead of me. I'm getting more and more opportunities to be on "House" so that mixed in with a few other projects will keep me pretty busy in November.
Randomness that I wished w happy halloween yesterday during our email exchange in regards to finances.. I figured "What the he!!". She wished me one back.
No expectations, no rollercoaster.. just glad to break the awkward silence for a sentence.
Thanks DG!
@ JS. Your opinion makes as much sense as your wisdom. Only time will tell how this hand plays out.
Journaling - W agreed to split the savings account 50/50. It would have been silly for her not.. but I am very thankful she said yes.
A friend asked me what about "x - she spent or y - she spent". I said I was letting it go. I'll admit that I had a brief moment of doubt, but for the most part I am at peace of this decision. I think the doubts will continue to rise, but I will not allow them to control me.
Hopefully it will be taken care of as early as Friday.
I went to a "Get Motivated" seminar on Monday. Some very awesome speakers such as Gen. Colin Powell, Bill Cosby, Joe Montana, Lou Holt, and many others.
For a business seminar, there was a ton of spirituality involved. I must have heard to "Forgive.. and let go" 5 or 6 times.
I think God might have been trying to tell me something
Maybe some day soon that will be true for me.
I have a pretty busy week ahead of me. I'm getting more and more opportunities to be on "House" so that mixed in with a few other projects will keep me pretty busy in November.
Randomness that I wished w happy halloween yesterday during our email exchange in regards to finances.. I figured "What the he!!". She wished me one back.
No expectations, no rollercoaster.. just glad to break the awkward silence for a sentence.
This ^^^^^^^^ is not just Good Stuff...it's GREAT!
Good to see you 25! I thought I had stumped you with my mediation post.
I must also say that I see you up at all hours. I thought I had a wacky schedule and could function off of little to no sleep. You put me to shame!
@lc4 - thank you and thanks for stopping by my thread!
Journaling -
Woke up yesterday morning receiving messages from "House" saying they were cancelling my two days next week. They gave a perfectly good reason - one that made sense to me as a fellow AD... however my mind went straight to the negatives
"What if I did something wrong! What if they don't like me? What if they were lying to me?" Urgh it was so frustrating.
I think thoughts like this are normal for every human being but I have taken it to the extreme between my dad leaving and the unhealthy dynamics of my m.
Having self-worth is still something I am struggling with. I have accepted how my w contributed to the destruction of my self worth. I'm still working over my feelings to that but in the past 8 months, I have realized that I don't need people to validate my worth.. Don't get me wrong it helps but people.. they have flaws, fears, opinions.. etc. If this sitch has taught me anything its..obviously their opinion of me can change.
I am worthy because God thinks I am. If I remember to look through his eyes (as if that's even possible) - that NEED to have other people accept me will go away.
I've been saying this from the very beginning to myself and other people on this board.. that God doesn't punish us but does allow bad things to happen so we can become the people he intended us to be.
I'm beginning to think that this S wasn't for my w to work out her problems, but for me to work out my own.
I don't mean to sound super spiritual..but I'm just looking at everything.
My w dropping my from her insurance and fighting me over the money = having faith in God that he will financially provide for me.
Knowing that he will provide because he has laid things on my heart that I have wanted to change (my negativity, my feeling of "being right" professionally.
Or that I'm having friends going through similar experiences and I can show them love and patience because I have opened up my heart to allow the love and patience to be shown to me.
I don't know.. maybe it's giving the man upstairs too much power and credit.. However - I beginning to believe that in actuality.. I never gave him enough.
"I'm beginning to think that this S wasn't for my w to work out her problems, but for me to work out my own."
I think this is a very healthy and sane way of looking at your situation. It allows you to examine yourself without the weight of your spouse hanging around your neck.
Two thumbs up.
@lc4 - thank you and thanks for stopping by my thread!
Journaling -
Woke up yesterday morning receiving messages from "House" saying they were cancelling my two days next week. They gave a perfectly good reason - one that made sense to me as a fellow AD... however my mind went straight to the negatives
"What if I did something wrong! What if they don't like me? What if they were lying to me?" Urgh it was so frustrating.
I think thoughts like this are normal for every human being but I have taken it to the extreme between my dad leaving and the unhealthy dynamics of my m.
yes you do And it's inconveniently NOT self serving as you bash yourself too much. Why can't what they said actually be TRUE? of course it probably IS...
Having self-worth is still something I am struggling with. I have accepted how my w contributed to the destruction of my self worth.
this self esteem thing really belongs to US...so why bother with the assignment of blame? It's not what you intend I'm sure, b/c you are braver than most.
But is this really something to project onto her or your dad?
Yeah they hurt you - that's a fact.
But NOW, as of Today, YOU ARE AWAKE..
and you are in charge of your happiness and
self esteem is part of that "duty" to yourself.imo
I'm still working over my feelings to that but in the past 8 months, I have realized that I don't need people to validate my worth.. Don't get me wrong it helps but people.. they have flaws, fears, opinions.. etc. If this sitch has taught me anything its..obviously their opinion of me can change.
I am worthy because God thinks I am. If I remember to look through his eyes (as if that's even possible) -
it is a very worthy aspirational goal.
that NEED to have other people accept me will go away.
I've been saying this from the very beginning to myself and other people on this board.. that God doesn't punish us but does allow bad things to happen so we can become the people he intended us to be.
eternal questions I ponder often. But I know He does not cause the bad problems or torture us with crazy "tests" to pass...if so, then just once I'd like to win a bunch of money as my "Test" to see if I become a jerk...
I'm beginning to think that this S wasn't for my w to work out her problems, but for me to work out my own.
I don't mean to sound super spiritual..but I'm just looking at everything.
Being spiritual is a good thing. Don't apologize for it. You don't sound self righteous and you're not speaking with false sounding piety, if that's what you are worried about.
My w dropping my from her insurance and fighting me over the money = having faith in God that he will financially provide for me.
Knowing that he will provide because he has laid things on my heart that I have wanted to change (my negativity, my feeling of "being right" professionally.
Or that I'm having friends going through similar experiences and I can show them love and patience because I have opened up my heart to allow the love and patience to be shown to me.
I don't know.. maybe it's giving the man upstairs too much power and credit.. However - I beginning to believe that in actuality.. I never gave him enough.
absolutely...Val, fwiw, last week I went to my high school reunion. Very affirming, btw.
But The day before it, an old friend called to tell me He did not want to go. Said he felt bad about his life as he is not "the rock star he was SUPPOSED to be", etc. (I replied, "I'm not President or on the Supreme Court...we adapt.") He was serious and depressed. We had a good honest "real life" talk and that was rare for us b/c we usually facebooked or talked about once a year.
I did get him to laugh and we sort of resolved things...he also left me a beautiful voicemail that said "I love you" at the end, and that was never said before, to my knowledge. (He is married and it wasn't inappropriately said, just super touchy feely for him)... In short, the call was NOT typical..
THEN, hours before our reunion the next day, he died.
At first I believed he had taken his own life. What are the odds someone I had not spoken to in so long, would call THE DAY BEFORE, to say they did NOT want to go to the reunion b/c of how depressed it made them feel about their life?
But no, he had a heart attack. Really.
I cannot help but believe that God had him contact me b/c the content of our discussion was, in hindsight, so beautiful and such a lovely goodbye that it was a gift.
My friend may have known or sensed at some level that his time was limited, but good grief, he's 50 and not sick or unhealthy...
or so we thought.
all I'm saying is that there is definitely something greater than us around...
more than ever, I am convinced of that.
My friend is now in the arms of a loving God and i will choose to see his call as the gift it was.
hope this stuff makes sense to you. I know you are on a journey with spiritual overtones but we all are, it's just that You are cognitively aware of it.
So thank God...literally...
Yes 25. It does make sense. Very crazy story.
this self esteem thing really belongs to US...so why bother with the assignment of blame? It's not what you intend I'm sure, b/c you are braver than most.?
It's not really blame as much as realization. I didn't really realize how my wife contributed to it until we separated. I didn't really realize that I allowed her words to affect my self worth until we separated.
I know that she only has that power if I ALLOW HER. I know now that the self esteem ball is completely in MY court.
I painted her in such a beautiful light.. I hid all her flaws. I'm not trying to paint her differently.. just trying to take the blinders off my eyes.
I feel I need to do this so I can learn how to love in a healthy way... and honestly that includes loving my w.
It may seem silly since we are getting a D.. I really do want to love her well. People think I'm crazy because she doesn't even talk to me and by her actions, doesn't give a rat's a$$.. so I guess I am.
But I don't love her well. I think I love her good but I also know I say I am doing something loving when in all honestly I'm doing it out of fear.
My self worth is an example. Any actions I take with the mindset "I'm worthy" usually pisses off w. So I say "I love her so I'm not do x"..
"WAKE UP VAL... YOU'RE NOT DOING IT OUT OF LOVE, IT'S OUT OF FEAR"
Does that make sense 25?
As for projecting - I try really REALLY hard to not project on W or Dad. I'm aware that I WANT to.. and I'm also aware that I DONT.
It's an internal struggle and one I will have for awhile. My goal is to forgive them both. This will not come overnight and w/o dying to myself a little... maybe even alot!
But it is my goal. I don't plan on giving up on it.
I gain so much insight from your posts Valeska. Thank you for that.
I gain so much insight from your posts Valeska. Thank you for that.
Anytime DG. I'm glad there is some kind of clarity in my ramblings.
Hi Val,
I just wanted to stop in and say I agree with you - God will allow these things to happen to make us better people, more like Him, more like who we were intended to be.
You ARE worthy. Don't let anyone tell or convince you that you're not. I think it's the enemy coming to bring those negative thoughts to tear us down. Not that I want to ignore constructive criticism.
Hopefully I'm not going super spiritual on you. I'm just sharing what I believe - it's between you and God what you believe.
You have gained so much wisdom since you've been on this MB. This shows in your posts here and to others. You should be very proud of how far you've come.
((( )))
Thanks JB.. I really needed to hear that today.
It's hard not to allow the fact that my w hasn't really spoken to me in 8 months play into that. I realize that I'm not alone here and there are plenty of people on this board who has been married twice as long....
.... but it's still a hard pill to swallow. I have and continue to own up to my part.. but I believe I have done every thing I can. It's up to my w to deal with her demons.
So needless to say that I'm feeling down today. Will be going to bank in about 5 hrs to split our savings with w. I also plan on giving her the key back to our storage unit.
I am stressed. I woke from my stress dream of losing my teeth and my chest is super tight. As usual, I jumped on my rollercoaster.
The ride was short and intense. I got off before going on round 2.
The truth is that I don't want to see my w. I don't blame her for putting me on the rollercoaster but it's kinda like when I quit smoking.. at first I couldn't be around other smokers or in bars until I could be strong enough.
Maybe that's an horrible analogy to compare my w to a cigarette..
It just hurts. Seeing her is a reminder that she does not care about me anymore. I do want her to get healthy and figure out who she is, but I still don't believe that had to come at the cost of our m.. and I certainly don't believe she had to hurt me in the process.
Anyway..Who wants to put themselves in that position to feel those things??
I want to be cheerful but not as an act but because it's who I am. There is alot to be grateful for.. I hope I can muster the courage.
This is just another step in this process. It's another step towards the unknown.
It's scary
P.S. Got a text from House today asking if I was available so clearly I didn't do anything wrong. I will continue to remind myself of your words, 25, about assuming people are telling the truth.
Val, you are worthy, you deserve to be happy, keep that in mind.
Breathe deep and slow calm cleansing breathes.
The feelings you are having are normal. You are in a situation producing anxiety. It is flight or fight and if we were less than we are, without our higher functions we would flee until we had to fight. It is a survival mechanism. It is normal
We have the higher functions. We believe in honor and integrity. We believe in a higher power. We believe we are part of something greater than ourselves. We will face the fear that produces the anxiety with serene confidence. It will not be easy. We will persevere, for we know the moment is fleeting, it will end. You will persevere. Believe it or not she is having many of the same anxieties and will want to fight or flee also.
(((Val)))
Thanks JS.
This will probably be a long post. I would like some thoughts from vets on this board. I'm sure I also deserve some 2x4s.
Met with W yesterday at the bank. I was really nervous and was scared... so I was quiet. My w tried to make small talk. I did my best to keep the answers short. I answered them but didn't say more or ask about her day.
When we split the account, she gave back the $500 she took from our account in July without telling me. The amount that I froze the account for.
Went to her car to exchange things. Told her I took stuff out of the storage unit and she asked what about the camping stuff that was ours. I said I took what I wanted from it. She said ok.
So I turn to walk away and she stops me. Hesitates.. and I ask "what?". She said I seem defensive and angry.. and that she doesn't know why.. "You don't have to tell me but if you want to tell me what's on your mind, I'm here to listen".
I was super shocked.
My w has never pursued me at all in the last 8 months. Has made no attempt to hear me (without me saying it first) or running after me. I'm not sure she was..maybe just shocked by my approach to distance myself. I honestly don't know if was a good thing or a bad thing.
I wanted to walk away.. but I couldn't. I wasn't being angry or defensive and although I am a believer of DB techniques.. I also believe in God and opening doors.
I told her that I wasn't either of those things and explained that I was just trying to respect her new relationship with me. That I needed to accept that she doesn't want me in her life, and so I'm trying to make that as my truth.
She said she didn't know how else to do this divorce. I asked what did she mean? She said that she doesn't know what a relationship with me looks like. She's trying to set boundaries, separate our lives, move forward. There are so many times she wants to know how I'm doing, what I'm working on.. but she doesn't say anything. (I don't necessarily think she was talking romantically.. more of a friendship)
But her emotions are all over the place when it comes to me. She doesn't know how she is going to treat me, she doesn't know how will treat her. Nothing is consistent.
She said it's a grey area and she doesn't like grey. I said I understood. I said that we knew what the past 8 months looks like. She agreed. And I was like well only we can decide if the other is worth it to get out of the grey.
She told me that I keep saying it's about my worth but that it isn't for her and it never was. That she has so many emotions. She's scratching the surface of them.. but isn't dealing with them yet. She has alot to forgive herself for and she's sure there is stuff she needs to forgive me for as well.
We dropped it for awhile. Talked about life. She said that I seemed like I had alot of my plate. I said I did. She asked if I wanted to share.
I said.. yes.. but that I couldn't.. because tomorrow I would wake up and she wouldn't talk to me. I couldn't do that to myself. She said that she was fighting wanting to know so she could fix it. Caz that's what we've always done.
I said yes except I still wanted to be there for her and she still goes through life not wanting or needing to open up to me.. which is fine but I can't do it the same old way any more.
Went back to talking about life. It started to rain and she was like "You are going to have to get closer if you want to share my umbrella".
She did throw out a couple digs. About my mother being sooo thrilled that I've gone back to church or that I'm sooo busy I must be rolling in the doe. I let the comments roll off my back.
She told me about her struggles in OA. She made a pretty big realization about being a "good OAer" vs working the program. I applauded and said that was huge that she recognized it and changed it.
We talked about my positive changes and God. She kept pushing on settling the cars. Finally I said.. "I don't make any decision about you or us without talking to God first. I have alot of feelings and I don't want to hurt you or myself so I need time to work through it with him before I can make a decision.. so you and I am going to have to wait".
She said that was fine.. that she realized that this is all on God's timeline (something I said months ago to her). When I had my answer to let her know.
So an hour later I ended the conversation. We hugged very deeply and I got in my car.
30 minutes later she texted me.
w: I'm glad we stayed and chatted. It was good to connect with you.
m: (5 hrs later) Me too. on both. Hope you have a great weekend and you feel better.
I have a whole other post about my reaction to this afterwards. Pretty revealing stuff.
I know not to look into it. There are a ton of info there and a ton of positives there.. but the D is still moving forward.
I'm not really sure if what I am doing is working or what...
End part 1
You go Val. :)I'm not an expert DBer but she is curious about you and your life. In Motivational interviewing the drug addict at 1st is in the precontemplation stage. They don't have a problem, later when the fog lifts a bit they move to contemplation stage which is full of ambivalenece. I think that is where she is. I also sense that you feel a bit more in control of you and the sitch. You are doing great. (((HUGS)))
Valeska why do you think you need a 2x4?
I don't see anything in your interaction that would warrant one.
I am so proud of you.
Do you realize how much you've grown?
I can see it in your posts.
You have opened my eyes to a lot of things, and I thank you for it.
Your W is crazy for letting you go.
Val's long post part 2.
If you don't read part 1.. this may not make alot of sense.
So I called my mom to tell her how it went. We talked about how w could turn at any minute or this new w could be true. Only time will tell and only with God's help.
And as I was talking... I got mad. I screamed. I hit my steering wheel. Thankfully I had already parked my car
I have been praying for God to change w's heart. That the abuse would stop and she would just be nice to me.. And then when it happens.. I'm pissed!
And through this realization.. I lost it. I broke down and wept on the phone to my mother because I had realized my truth.
I say I want my w to get better... but ONLY if that means she comes back to me.
I'm angry that she is working on parts of her life besides our part rather than applaud the fact she is working on her life period.
I'm not letting go of my pain and using it to portray w in a negative light. I can't look at an event for what it is.. I try to twist it to a negative. I do this as a defense mechanism because for the longest time.. when I hoped with w, I was let down.
That means I'm not living "from this day forward".. I'm staying in the past.
Instead of Thanking God, I was mad at him. I sit there and say I want to love my w as god loves me. I want to love unconditionally....
...but I'm getting in the way of that. I don't love my wife as much as I say.. otherwise I wouldn't have these d@mn conditions.
So I don't know if I did the best at DBing yesterday.. but I know now what I do need to work on with her.
Because in my heart, I do want my w to be happy and healthy. If I was a b!tch.. I wouldn't have applauding her changes at all. I just need to get over myself and my hurt. I need to let go.
I need to be more humble. Yeah... I am changing. I feel that.. but I'm NOT doing it alone. Therefore if my w's heart is softening, if she is changing
I have very little to do with it.Get off your d@mn high horse Val!
Be thankful. Be thankful that there was NO abuse yesterday. No words of hate or anger. Be thankful that she gave me back the $500. Be thankful that she is respecting my space to figure out the car. Be thankful that the idea of splitting the car is 50/50 which is a very different place than she was at in mediation 6 wks ago.
Be thankful that she is changing
Be thankful that I am changing
and whether or not we get back together, our dynamic IS changing.
I'm not beating myself up here.. just realizing where I need to grow. I don't think I can stop this D.. but that's not really the point anymore.
I don't need to be married or with my w to unconditionally love her.
I don't need to be married or with my w to change our dynamic.
I don't need to be married or with my w to become a better wife.I feel like this may be a huge change of perspective for me. One that will surely be hard to see at times, but one I think will be an awesome way to heal.
Hey Val,
Everything you said made sense to me, and from your perspective on things I can understand how you would feel the way that you are feeling.
I think you experienced a real moment of self-confrontation there, and those can be painful. But lets face it - even acknowledging those things exist can only come from a good place in you.
So you take another step in your journey to becoming the woman you want to become. It never ends, so embrace that and be happy your feet are moving in the right direction.
Love is, as you note, a choice. And there are so many ways of thinking about love.. so many. And so many things we call love that are really about something else. Can they all exist together? I think so, if we recognize them for what they are.
And so much responsibility for that choice lies within us. Maybe you and your W never reconnect.. but perhaps the strength to love her outside of how it relates to you gives you the power to more fully love all, and in turn more fully love someone in the future. It seems to me that one thing is clear, you DO want to love.
You are growing - maybe you aren't where you thought you were just yet but that's no reason not to keep going.
Val, IMO you have just had more positive exchanges with your W than I have had with mine in the last year.
Why should wood swing?
I think it was very admirable the way you conducted yourself.
It is normal to have stress and emotive reactions after, getting them out is healthy.
You’ve had epiphanies. Give yourself time to process them and adjust to the new information.
It seems as though she has also grown a bit.
Friendship is not a bad thing so long as neither is sacrificing for it. Friendship is a better R than the one where we are bickering over who keeps the couch and coffee table.
As much as the separation s*cks it is an R of sorts, dialing down the rhetoric and anger is a small positive step to better. Providing an environment for friendly positive exchanges is another small step. If a friendship begins and can be nourished it is a step on the path to better also.
There is a mantra in my professional life it relates to change and patience. “Do not let best get in the way of better”.
Too often with any change people strive so hard to get best, they lose sight of better. They will accept nothing less than best. In doing so they fail to use better as the resting step it is along the path of continuous improvement and they fail. They fail to have the patience to use better to get to best.
What represents best to you? I finally dropped my rope when I realized my best did not need my W. I want her there but I do not need her there for my “best”
Do not let best get in the way of better
Peace & ((()))
It seems incredibly odd to me that an old grunt should be wishing peace and hugs, but perhaps that is a 180 also.
@ Rick - She did SEEM curious. It's hard to tell if she is having mixed emotions. If so.. it wouldn't be the first time. She had mixed feelings right before we separated. It led to her not talking to me.
That being said.. I have to still guard my heart. Let her make the move back should she chooses.
@DG - Thank you! I do feel like I have grown. I especially see it now that I have friends going through breakups. They are reacting on feelings of anger and hurt. It's getting pretty ugly. As hard as it's been. I'm glad I didn't chose that route.
I won't lie. If I AM turning into a woman only a fool we leave, I hope my w sees it. I just have to be careful to keep my motives pure. I am changing because that is what's best for me.
@Aeo - Yep.. Growth is a journey that I will forever take. If I don't enjoy the little successes of my changes, I think I would grow exhausted from all the work. I will keep keeping on.
@JS - I too feel like I handled it well. The tears came to my eyes but I did not let them roll down my cheek. I cannot help that I am an emotional person, but I have learned that showing my emotions do not equal weakness rather strength.
I have been trying to process my feelings lately and really looking at your saying about not letting best get in the way of better.
I am appreciative of my interaction with my w, however my 5 yr old inner child and has taken down the box of hope and is crying and desperately hanging onto it. I've been fighting with her to put it back. For having hope hurts me and is something that keeps me from moving forward.
I am clearly not done with my w.
Friday has also let me confused on how to move forward. I think this is partly because of the hope. She has explained to me that this is how she needs to do this D, and I still want it to be different.
I went on a spin of trying to figure out ways to make her more curious, or changing my tactic of calling her vs. texting to discuss things. To change my emails to be more friendly vs. more business like.
I went back to putting the burden all on me. Leave it to me to fix it, leave it me control the situation.
And as much I WANT to.. I can't. I can't go back to being her enabler. I can't go back to the old dynamic. I can't go back to being the old Val.
So right now.. I'm just doing what I know works for me. Living my life the best I can, being the kindest person I can. Looking deep within myself to change.. and constantly challenging myself.
In regards to w, I continue to work through my feelings to see what is fair and loving. I wake up trying to forgive and trying to let go.
I can't worry about if that will save my M right now. I have to have faith that in my heart, that's what feels right.
On a different note - did a completely different GAL activity. I went to a bar last night by myself to watch the Bears Game. Huge fan and I had a bunch of work to do.. but I never went to a bar alone.
It was great. A friend ended up joining me later.. but one thing I know for sure. I am not the shy, awkward Val anymore..
Well that is wonderful Val, everything up to the Bears fan comment
I am an Eagles fan here. Congratulations to your team! I'm glad you were able to GAL and go out a bit last night, that is wonderful!
I tend to be a fixer too and can understand what you are saying. I need to just step back and let my H feel some of the things he is feeling. I don't need to (and can't) fix anything right now, other than GAL myself and working on me!
V:
Just wanted to send a note of encouragement and to thank you for sharing your experience...it is inspiring and helpful.
One day at a time....
Very Quick Journal as I just finished shooting a music video for 15 hrs and I need to be back to work in 9 hrs.
W wrote on my wall today on FB (Yes I know.. still haven't deleted her). She asked if I knew what was going on with Penn State.
The last time she reached out to me about anything other than the divorce was in August. I don't count my b-day as it was a very generic b-day wish.
I still won't have any expectations in regards to her reaching out.
I haven't responded yet because I am busy working, but also because I don't really know what to do with the info. Wanting and having a pleasant conversation is something I can easily do.. just not really sure if I should.
Thoughts??
Val,
My only thought is like the one I shared on WAWLa's profile.
It isn't a question of right or wrong. should or shouldn't.
The question is, can you do it from the right place in you?
(((()))) Val
Do you know what is going on at Penn State? Big sex scandal. Fotball coaches accused of sexually molesting boys?? i don't follow football so that it is all I know.
Val, I am following aeolianchaos here.
Should I or shouldn’t I? Don’t get wrapped around that axle.
Can you have a conversation here without shaking up the 5 year old past the point you can calm her down? Can you have this conversation calmly; enjoy it for what it is, not attaching additional significance and expectations to it?
Your post says yes.
Place a smooth paving block into the path and level it. Wait and see what happens. Don’t focus here to the exclusion of your life, for you deserve better. You are achieving better. This is not the only project. Don’t empower co-De by making this the most important project.
Calm, confident, detached, nonchalant.
Keep yourself safe
((()))
To Aeo and JS
Yes I can. Yes I did.
I waited and responded with a very calm, cool answer. Being detached and nonchalent will be in my thoughts the next few hours.
JS - You nailed it with the paving block. I laid it, I leveled it, I'm leaving the results up to God.
As for my 5 year old child.. well I guess I'm also the 29 yr old parent. I'll hug her when she cries and protect her from harm.. but I'll also give her the opportunity to grow and overcome her fears with small steps such as these.
Thanks Gentlemen. You are truly a blessing in my life!
(((()))) Val
Do you know what is going on at Penn State? Big sex scandal. Fotball coaches accused of sexually molesting boys?? i don't follow football so that it is all I know.
Thanks for the info Rick. And Hug! Yeah it's pretty crazy. Some riots are happening. Everyone's safe but when PSU fans get pissed.. they have no problem showing it.
V:
Just wanted to send a note of encouragement and to thank you for sharing your experience...it is inspiring and helpful.
One day at a time....
Thanks WAW. Been thinking about you! I know you are going through some rough waters. I'm glad my posts are helpful.
Take it slow. That's all. it's not a matter of could or should have a pleasant friendly conversation. It is if you can handle it with no expectations. You also have to ask yourself if it is something that makes you feel better or worse.
Thanks for your words Gabby and for stopping by my thread!
At this stage, I feel BOTH. I'm not sure how much you read of my sitch, but my w said said all of these things about hanging out and not wanting to lose me from her life.. and then she just stopped talking to me and did the exact opposite for almost 7 months now.
So the
better is that she does still care, the
worse is that it isn't consistent right now.. or what I always said.. it's not enough to want her to even work on some kind of relationship.
I've been learning to let go of that expectation for now. At some point I will act on it.. but for now I am resting. I do not feel it is the right time to say to w. "Well since you feel I'm worth investing time into a relationship or a friendship, I do not really want you in my life".
That still feels wrong to me. It seems very black or white. With my w going through a 12 step program.. I know she is in a world of grey.
Go slow, do what feels right. It all comes down to what feels right to you.
Going slow is exactly my gameplan. I'm still working out what feels right.. but I do know what feels wrong.
It's progress.
Journaling -
During my conversation with my w last week, I had mentioned that I wanted to come over when the D was final and say goodbye to our cats. One is 7, the other is 4. One of them was my baby.
Cut to today - w emailed me asking if I wanted to come over and feed them and spend time with them while she was out of town with her students. She said that she was more than happy to have someone else do it, but wanted to give me the opportunity to see them since I had mentioned missing them.
Honestly - I'm just super confused. Friday has seemed to spark more contact with my w this week. I have done an "ok" job at holding my expectations and keeping it cool and calm.. I have seen this dance before in July. I don't want to get back on my rollercoaster again.
I want to guard my heart.
My w has had a history of letting me fix everything and take care of stuff. I'm very loyal and dependable.. however for most of this, she has not reached out really to take advantage of that in a awhile. So I'm not sure if it's that.
She goes on this trip yearly. She's known for awhile so she could have asked earlier. My guess is that because she is asking so late to her leaving, she could easily have someone else do it.
So assuming all that to be true, my w is doing this out of an act of kindness for me? If I let the stinking thinking go and just see that as hard for me to accept it, it must have been hard for her to ask it... right? (This is where 25 would probably say yes)
So she is putting herself out there.
Is this another opportunity for me to lay another block of the road?
I'm not sure I'm ready to go to her house. I want to see the cats but I feel it's too hard for me to see them in HER apartment with her not there. I don't know if she is sharing her life with anyone and I don't want to be put into a situation to see it.
This is all soo hard. I have no idea what's going on. I have no idea what to do.
Val, it's probably a little of both. She's probably thinking you may like to do it, but she also knows she can depend on you to do it, and it's very convenient.
Is this another opportunity for me to lay another block of the road?
Hard to say. If you do it, you should probably have no expectations.
Also, I would suggest doing this only if you're up to it. If you're doing it to see the cats and to take the high road, it may be all right to do it. If you're doing it with expectations and high hopes, it may not be such a good idea to do it. I think it depends on what your motives are.
Also, I would suggest doing this only if you're up to it. If you're doing it to see the cats and to take the high road, it may be all right to do it. If you're doing it with expectations and high hopes, it may not be such a good idea to do it. I think it depends on what your motives are.
Ahh yes.. this is the question. Right now all of the above. I think it might be time to ask for a little guidance from the man upstairs
I think it might be time to ask for a little guidance from the man upstairs.
ALWAYS an excellent decision IMO!
Went to take my car for an oil change.. found out that it has many more problems than I had thought. It wasn't even safe to drive it home.
Called w. I don't want to start pumping money into the car if we are going to sell them both. I was surprised that she answered. She was very pleasant on the phone and offered to meet me tomorrow to discuss the cars. We talked briefly about Penn State and then hung up.
I've been crying ever since. The cars will be the last part of this divorce. All that is left is the paperwork.. and that's it..
I've got to be honest.. I'm tired. I'm tired of acting upbeat. I'm tired of being positive. I'm tired of turning the other cheek and taking the high road.
I know I'm venting. I know I'll be alright.. but for right now. It just hurts.
Maybe it's not a good idea to see the cats.. all this contact has me kinda loopy.
(((Val)) I'm sorry your having one of those moments.
Allow yourself to vent, allow yourself to feel, you are not alone on this road. We are all in this together.
Talk to the man upstairs, He will help you through this.
Sorry you are having a rough time today Val. Thinking good thoughts for you and realize this will get better with time.
Val:
As you know I'm going through the same things, so tired of trying to be positive and GAL. You're ahead of me in the unwinding process (I'm still in the negotiation phase), but when I get to your stage, I'm sure I'll be feeling just like you. I hope when I'm there, I'll handle it as gracefully as you.
You're in a low point on the journey, with no way quick or easy way to get out of it. As you've done in the past, you'll bounce back and be the better for it. For now, just know that folks are thinking about you and wishing you speedy passage through this latest hurdle.
Hang in there and as you often say, GAL like hell when you can.
Thanks DG! (((( ))) Sorry for your loss.
@ Gabby. Thanks for the words even if dosed with painkillers!
I did tell my w that I deeply appreciated the offer, but at this time I was not comfortable being in her apartment alone. She said that she understood.
Long Journal:
So met w today to talk about the car. Our conversation started off rocky.
We started talking about the cars. We were doing fine until she started playing the victim. She fell into our old dynamic. I know there will be a devil's advocate.. but I know myself. What she said was not true and a way to keep the old dynamic going.
She reminded me that she made more the last 3 yrs so she was entitled to more of the car.
She accused me of punishing her for the divorce. She lost money by settling on the insurance and now was going to lose money because she has to buy me out of the car. Saying that the last 7 car payments should come out of my half.
I told her that I refused to do that. She kept saying that I was punishing at her.. and this is where I stopped DBing and stuck up for myself.
I said..
I will not let you sit here and say that I am punishing you. I will not sit here and let you say that I don't deserve half.
These are just consequences of the divorce. We both lose.
I did contribute to the marriage. There were times in which I made more and since we moved, I may not have made what you did, but I didn't make crap. I paid different bills and when I had extra money, I put it towards the car.
I will not sit here and allow you to say I have and am punishing you. There is alot I could do, but I'm not doing it. I have never punished you in the 9 yrs we were together.. I have not punished you in the 7 months we have been separated.. and I'm not punishing you now!
I will not backpay for the car or for the insurance because you wanted to do it, and we both know that you would not have allowed me to have the car. You have told me many times in our marriage that I would always get your hand me downs. Remember.. I made you move to here, therefore you got the new car.
So don't make this about me. Dig deep in yourself. You say that you know I love you and that I am good woman.. Believe it now. I speak the truth.
I do not want to argue with you about this. This is not what I came here to do and this is not how I want to behave.Was that DBing.. definitely not.. but I couldn't allow her to create these fairy tales. I'm all for admitting what I have done wrong.. and to look at things from her point of view.. but I couldn't let her beat me down. I couldn't allow that same dynamic.. even if it meant not DBing.
And for the 1st time... my wife stopped and apologized. She said that she was scared.
I said.. "Me too so let's start over".
We talked about the car and came to an agreement. Unfortunately we both did the math wrong and so I have to email her about that.
There was a time that she came up with an agreement that would require trust from each other. I said that we couldn't do it because she didn't trust me and I didn't trust her. She said "Yeah we really destroyed everything we had" My response "Yes we did. I understand the divorce.. but I still don't understand why we had to destroy everything. Our trust, our friendship, the past 9 yrs.. why did we have to lose it all?"
And then she grabbed my hands and said.
"I had to run from you! I couldn't deal with it. I can't have you in my life and be a new person. It's too easy to go back to the old me. I'm dealing with my feelings now, but I don't know how long it's going to take.. but I don't not want to be in your life."
I felt validated. I always knew that my w was running. That the 12 step program brought up too much and rather than deal.. she ran.
I thanked her for sharing and I grabbed her other hand.. and told her that I forgave her.. that I was angry and hurt but that I forgive her for the harm she did to me in our marriage, and for the hurt she is causing me now.
I told her that when she was done dealing with her demons, my door was open. Not as her wife, but as her friend.. and that I would welcome her with a hug and a high five for finally beating the woman who had caused her so much pain (herself)
That I wanted her to be happy and was proud of her changes. She said she could tell I was changing too.
And she bawled.
We ended the conversation. As we walked to the car, she grabbed and held my hand. I walked her to her car and she hugged me. She said "You know I love you right?". I said.. I see it now, but it's been very hard to see the past 7 months.
I explained how God opened my heart last Friday and that I was done punishing her. I was done making her out to be evil because I was hurting. That it wasn't fair to her and it wasn't loving.
I told her that I loved her too. She said the same old thing.. "I know you do".
She later sent me a text saying that she appreciated that we brought our higher power into today. There was an obvious shift in the way we communicated, and she appreciated it.
I responded saying me too and that God is good and that I continue to be surprised by how much he loves us considering how unlovable we act at times.
And that was that. I will be getting a Divorce. I will be getting one because my w feels it's what's right so she can change for the better.
I can choose to be upset about it.. but I look at it this way.. if a person can't stop abusing the spouse, but decides to leave the spouse until they can get better.. than that's not a bad thing.
Do I agree with my wife's choices.. no. but I also know that I struggle with my co-dependency and that I can't really be in a healthy r with her either.
I don't know what the future holds.. but it looks brighter. I'm sad to lose her, but I truly want her better.. even at the sacrifice of our marriage and me.
That's where I stand at the moment.
Wow V...I am so proud of you. Sticking up for yourself isn't exactly against DBing. I didn't read anywhere in DR or DB that in order to do it effectively you had to be a door mat.
It was a good conversation the 2 of you had, I admire that you were able to recognize that falling in to the same patterns and routines would do nothing but hurt the chances of being able to communicate effectively.
It is so hard to let go, I know.
One thing I realize through out this process, and maybe you can relate, was I didn't know how lost I really was until I started to find myself again.
Val has done so well consistently. Val, we're all so proud of you for handling yourself with strength and courage. It is painful, it rips our hearts out. Sometimes I wish i could just literally rip my heart out instead of feeling all this slow death -- but you are doing what we all HOPE to do. You are growing. You are discovering yourself and your are meeting yourself where you are --- and improving.
I read your updates with great interest and I am thinking of you. Plus, people who don't have animals likely don't understand how hard it is to give up pets. I am lucky in that sense b/c W knows our dogs are getting older and are very expensive to keep. No chance she will try to take them. I feel so bad that you had to give up your babies.
Wow.. thanks ladies for all the kind words spoken. It means alot to me.
@ DG - Yes I do know what you mean. I didn't realize how co-dependent I was until now. Being in a relationship with an addict is hard. They say it's a sickness that effects the whole family. I think w and I will be healing for a long time.
@ Gabby - I hope you don't leave the newcomers but understand if you need to. I agree that newcomers blur the line between DBing and being a doormat. I believe this stems from the fear that our next move will be our last move... when in actuality we just never know. We do our best, plant our seeds, and let God do the rest.
@IS - Yes I do miss my cats.. but it is what it is. I gave them up because her house was bigger and I couldn't separate them. With w exploring her new life, the cats will need each other more than ever.. they are very lovey that way.
@ WAW - Wow.. I just don't even know what to say to you hoping to be as graceful as me. I guess the only thing I can say is that it's not me.. I pray all for God to keep my heart loving. If it is happening, it is truly because he has given me the strength to keep going.
Weekend continued on. I woke up sad today but it passed when i went to church. Spent that hour being very thankful for how Saturday turned out.
Spent the afternoon watching the bears game and was excited for another win. The person I hung out with didn't know I was getting a D.. when he found out he was extremely sad. I said me too, but I'm becoming a better woman from this whole thing.
Texted w that I was sending her an email about the car. I felt that since we had taken it to a friendly level, I didn't want to hit her with it out of the blue.
I'm just going with my gut. We are still continuing to be friendly and I plan on keeping that up. I will make sure to expectations in check and allow my emotions to wash over me. Both good and bad.
PS. Had a BBQ Chicken Quesadillas and it was Ah-mazing! Made me think of your thread DG!
Val, I actually thought that was DB'ing. You were kind and loving but you stood up for yourself. You don't have to validate her accusations, especially when you know you are committed to being a loving compassionate person and that your motives were pure. I think you handled that conversation with grace and love and you should be proud. I also wouldn't be surprised if someday, your W really takes a long hard look at her decisions and truly regrets her choices. Actually, I think that process might have already started.
((()))
Aww thanks E! Missed seeing you around these parts and I always appreciate the hugs.
She told me on Saturday that she still feels that D is right but she has been extremely sad and for me to not think that splitting our life up "has not phased her".
I believe that to be true but other than that.. I have no idea what is going on in her head. Only time will tell.
I just keep moving forward. As much as stuff can hurt and I can be sad, somewhere all of my changes shifted from being about my m to being about me. I'm not going to lie.. I hope she sees them.. but I'm not going to go back if she doesn't. I'm not going to try something "new" so she can "see" I've become a better/different woman.
I know I changed.
I like who I have become and am becoming. It's hard and uncomfortable that times.. but if growth was easy.. everyone will do it.
So glad to hear you and your H are doing well. Such strength and love you possess! Keep us updated from time to time will ya?
(((E)))
good good good. The shift from M to Val. Fantastic!!!!!!
The only way to get through the pain is to go through it -- not around it....you're awesome.
Val, I GAL’ed the Sh!t out of my extended weekend and I am exhausted. I checked your thread skimming it. I will get a deeper read after I clear the mountain of work at the office.
After a first pass: Well done!
I agree with others that part of what we learn here is establishing our boundaries and holding firm to them. In a manner that allows us to love ourselves. IMO what you said and did was DB’ing 151 as opposed to 101.
You’ve had more epiphanies, take time to process them. I struggle with giving my STBX the freedom and room she needs to grow. It seems you will be doing that more gracefully than I.
(((Val)))
Hello Val,
Thank you for some inspirational posts! Great job on your convo with s. I only hope that someday if the time comes when I talk with my w face to face that i will do as well, well done!
Gunny
@JS - Yah! Can't wait to hear all about your weekend. Did ya kill anything?
I still struggle with letting go too. I have no doubt you will let go of your w gracefully.
@ Gunny - Thank you! My secret - lot's of prayer.. seriously. I feel like I am in constant prayer with God. I know he is the only reason I am handling my w with the grace and love that I have been.
Small Journal
Not alot going on in regards to sitch. W is away on a trip w/ her students. She is aware of the price to buy me out of the car. She will get to it when she does. I no longer sit and wait or fear her response.
The past weekend did leave me missing her a bit.. although I am thankful that I am remembering her in a positive light. My inner 5 year old is doing ok. Just need to remember that this past week is not the normal. My heart shall remain guarded, my hope.. in the box up high on a shelf I can't reach.
I continue to pray for my w, me, and our m.. but trust that God knows what's best for us individually..and as a couple. I'll do my part, but will leave the rest in his hands.
I took up a new GAL activity.. running. There have been a few times over the past 7 months when I have been out for a walk and got angry at my sitch.. so I started to run and felt better. So I took it up this week. I can barely run 2 miles. (The Divorce Diet made me look good but did nothing for my physical fitness
) A new goal is to run my first 10K at the end of January.
Other than that.. just living life. Appreciating the good moments, learning from the bad.
I continue to pray for my w, me, and our m.. but trust that God knows what's best for us individually..and as a couple. I'll do my part, but will leave the rest in his hands.
This sounds like a good plan to me. I think you have your head on straight.
took up a new GAL activity.. running. There have been a few times over the past 7 months when I have been out for a walk and got angry at my sitch.. so I started to run and felt better. So I took it up this week. I can barely run 2 miles. (The Divorce Diet made me look good but did nothing for my physical fitness ) A new goal is to run my first 10K at the end of January.
Good for you, Val! Even 2 miles is great! I love to run - I just wished my body loved it as much. It amazing how much it helps mentally.
Good choice on the running Val, it does make a world of difference, enjoy!
Hi Val-
Your thread is over 100 posts--can you close it out, start a new one?
Already done sir.
Here it is. Lock this one up at your convenience.
Grace, Love, Compassion, Faith - EVEN BETTER