I am separated but living together. Wife is beautiful and it's impossible in our house not to see her naked. I have an extremely high sex drive and haven't gone more than a month without sex in 15 years. I don't know what to do. I don't want to cheat but It's really hard. Is it OK for a cyber affair while Separated? Or am I just putting energy towards divorce? Help!
No, you should not cheat on her in any fashion. How would she feel if she decided to work on your M, and found out?
I am sure some of the others here with more experience giving out advice will reply to you shortly.
good luck
vc
I saw the title of the thread and thought it was a joke.
Um, do you want to be married? if so, the answer is obvious.
(If not, the answer is also obvious, come to think of it.)
So really, what is your situation and why are you here and what do you want?
Did you come here wanting permission to have an online affair?
Um, "Permission denied."
Now, Think this through...
How could an online affair possibly help your relationship with your w?
A relative did exactly that, got caught and it was the last nail in the coffin. He is now divorced. He threw away all hope with it.
Assuming this isn't a joke, my answer is a big fat NO.
It is not ok.
if you are about to get D cheating should be the last thing on your mind. In fact you shouldn't even be hungry. But anyways, if you have a high sex drive MWD recommends masturbating. Get the DR book and start there. my 2c
I don't want to cheat but It's really hard.
How is it really hard? If you don't want to do it. Don't do it.
Maybe take a look at what drives you for sex.
If its purely biological, then you should be able to take care of that just fine on your own.
If its a question of being validated by another person - what kind of person is going to validate you for cheating on your spouse? how much value does that validation have for you?
Why do you need to violate your own integrity to seek that out?
Does that mean other people count more than you do in terms of how you view yourself?
If seeing your Wife naked bothers you, tell her.
"W, when I see you naked I feel X (alienated, agitated, lonely, flustered.. you fill in the feeling) because I have a need for X (sexual expression, intimacy, connection, validation, companionship, belonging, security... again you fill in what your need is). Would you be willing to cover up more for the time being?"
get a fleshlight.
That should help a lot.
Forgot to mention - she is in an EA with an OM. Guess that's my issue. I don't have a problem waiting but if she acts on it and I am sitting here with a moronic drooling smile on my face as she humiliates me, I don't know how that will solve our relationship issues.
Because we are financially strapped and tied to the house - thus "Separated, living together" - her brilliant therapist's idea.
She has a habit of just being naked as she gets ready in the morning.
"God gave you 2 hands. Use them. Pop in a DVD and have some fun."
Gabby - this is not personal toward you - but I just think it is odd that somehow it is assumed that for a man to MB, he also must use porn.
Really, that isn't the case. Being in touch with your own body and its sensations is healthy MB. "Getting off" to images of strangers is not necessarily healhty.
Just my two cents.
The EA should have no bearing on your sex drive. You just want what you can't have and it's driving you nuts. What were the issues that caused the break up? Have you tried to correct those?
OK, now you are making more sense.
Of course, the answer to your original question is still the same - absolutely not!
It might help if we got a better idea of what else there is going on in your relationship. We know how you feel about being sexually deprived (believe me, I can relate), but how do you feel about her? How do you feel about Divorce? Has she filed for Divorce? Are you both talking about it? Why are you separated? Was it because of the EA, or were there other issues? I could go on all night, but I think you get the idea. What is going on with your relaationship that you are separated, where do you think it's heading, and where do you want it to be heading?
In the meantime, a couple of ideas. First, apparently she has violated a boundary with you - an EA. What exactly is going on between them? Does she define it as an A, or is she still insisting that they are just friends?
In any case, you need to lay down some boundaries. Let her know that you are not OK with the EA, and that if she wants you to stay together (does she?) she will need to respect that you expect to be the only romantic involvement in her life. The problem with this, of course, is that you are laying down a choice for her, then leaving it in her court. You have to be OK with the idea that she might choose OM. You have to respect yourself enough to hold that boundary, and not let yourself be humiliated. If she wants him, then she can't have you.
Just a side note: Considering that she is having an EA, and that is hurting you, how would your actions be any better if you have a cyber affair. We are not in kindergarten, and "she did it first" is not a valid or mature excuse.
Now, back to boundaries - another boundary you need to set is regarding nudity. I have no difficulty understanding how it could be sexually frustrating to see the woman you love nude when you are not emotionally ready to be intimate with each other. As has been suggested before, you need to respectfully ask her, if she is not willing to be romantically or sexually involved with you at this time, to respect your feelings and needs. If she is an adult, she should be able to understand that it is inconsiderate to a man (or woman, I would expect) to do things you know will arouse him sexually (such as walk around naked) when she has no intention of being sexually intimate with him. You might suggest strategies, such as keeping to separate parts of the house during that time of the morning. Be creative. However, if she will not try to accommodate you, you will have to keep the boundary yourself. Quite simply, try not to be where you know she will be naked, and when you have to be there - hard as it is - don't look. If she asks why you are acting differently in the morning, calmly, respectfully tell her the truth; seeing her naked arouses you, and if you are not going to have sex at this time in your lives, then you would rather not frustrate yourself. Why should you walk around with a perpetual case of "guy cramps?"
That said, just going without sex will probably cause you some degree of frustration anyway. You just have to ask yourself, how much does this marriage mean to you? And make your decisions accordingly. Either commit to it, grit your teeth and start Divorce Busting...or don't. But don't have ANY kind of affair, as that is destructive for everyone - including you.
Thank you for adding more information. I was worried that you were a troll just looking for attention.
I would tell her that if she is going to be in common areas of your home, to have some respect and put some clothing on.
I don't agree with psych's take on it as far as
"boundary setting" and confronting your w about the EA and OM....
b/c that sounds a lot like an ultimatum. Read the Divorce Remedy book asap
so you can understand why it's a bad idea to issue an ultimatum.
We've also NOT gotten enough information from you to really give a lot of advice out.
But you can certainly address the nudity in front of you issues. NOTE---
What you were asking originally us was whether
YOU could do what you fear your wife is doing-having an EA
only you wanted to make sure sex was part of yours...
See any irony?
I don't agree with psych's take on it as far as
"boundary setting" and confronting your w about the EA and OM....
25 -
You are right. My bad.
Thanks all for the advice. Now she's covering up on her own - maybe she's getting used to being separate also.
A little BG. We were totally happy and head over heels for 7 years - day in and out. Then I started a company and started ignoring her. Company collapsed with eceonomy, had twins, almost got forclosed on, couldn't find work. Pulled it together as a contractor but it's inconsistent.
She is now in biz school and having this EA. She told me about OM to be 'respectful' before anything happened. Now she is saying if we didn't have house and she wasn't in school we'd be divorced tomorrow. Said she is keeping an open mind but right now doesn't see us fixing it.
I think I have figured out my stand point on the EA. I am going to let it continue as I know it's a rebound and may end but if it turns physical, I am not going to be standing here like some slackjawed moron. I am going to have to dump the house and the marriage and my poor kids will be the ones who suffer - but I am not a saint and cannot imagine forgiving an affair - especially knowing beforehand.
Yesterday she was texting and giggling to the OM in our bedroom with me and the kids right there. Totally disrepectful. Still working out what to do on that. Saw a therapist today -she's awesome. She's not sure what to do about the texting either - said it's extremely disrepectful and very immature.
Think about it...if you met a potential mate who was nothing but a bundle of needs, would YOU be attracted to them?
Would you think that applies to OM? Maybe he will realize what a mess she is and he's walking into and back off? (not likely, right?)
I think I have figured out my stand point on the EA. I am going to let it continue as I know it's a rebound and may end but if it turns physical, I am not going to be standing here like some slackjawed moron.
meanwhile you think something will change backwards or turn around, if you simply do nothing? Why don't you change something in YOU now?
I am going to have to dump the house and the marriage and my poor kids will be the ones who suffer - but I am not a saint and cannot imagine forgiving an affair - especially knowing beforehand.
Instead of planning how you will punish your whole family, take a stand NOW before it gets to that.
And never say never. Many of us THOUGHT we'd for sure leave if 'x' or 'y' happened, only to find that there actually is a streak of saintliness within....
Yesterday she was texting and giggling to the OM in our bedroom with me and the kids right there. Totally disrepectful. Still working out what to do on that. Saw a therapist today -she's awesome. She's not sure what to do about the texting either - said it's extremely disrepectful and very immature.
but if you really are that close to destroying the family in retailiation, why not confront sooner? I mean you can't sit there and test her waiting to see if she does IT and THEN SLAM THE DOOR on all....too preventable on your end....
Thanks all for the advice. Now she's covering up on her own - maybe she's getting used to being separate also.
A little BG. We were totally happy and head over heels for 7 years - day in and out. Then I started a company and started ignoring her. Company collapsed with eceonomy, had twins, almost got forclosed on, couldn't find work. Pulled it together as a contractor but it's inconsistent.
She is now in biz school and having this EA. She told me about OM to be 'respectful' before anything happened. Now she is saying if we didn't have house and she wasn't in school we'd be divorced tomorrow. Said she is keeping an open mind but right now doesn't see us fixing it.
this is not an answer, okay?
We want to help YOU b/c you are the one here posting. You are all we can help and you are all YOU can control.
What has SHE Complained about in the marriage? You say you ignored her and you seem to explain it away due to finances/new company.
This is too generic. Either you are not digging deep enough or you are avoiding real issues.
What are her complaints? Are any of them valid? What are YOU doing about those? Instead of planning for failure, plan on changing into a better man.
No woman is unmoved by the loving interaction of her children with their father. (I think it's a turn on for many moms).
So Be the best dad you can be. NOW. They need you more than ever and it's a win win.
The deal is,
YOU have to show her change (not "convince" with words or arguments about what she SHOULD feel or really did feel, but forgot or refuses to see).
SHE believes she is unhappily married, so she is.
So you have to SHOW HER that marriage to you, from this day forward,
can be better.
How are you doing that?
Thanks. Good points. I really did ignore her. Slowly at first but increasingly for 5 years. To the point where she was very very alone. She had post partum and I didn't see through all the screaming and verbal abuse how alone and how much pain she was in - so I put her on anti-depressants and continued ignoring her (I didn't realize I was doing it) She started complaining about all the child care duties and housework so I started taking on more and more of that as a way to make up for my financial failures. She also lent money to my business which is now gone along with both our credit scores.
I am guilty of hurting her deeply and extremely remorseful.
Please put a helmet on. I don't mean to punish you for honesty b/c it's brave. But it's also mandatory if your situation is to improve....so let's look at this...
[quote=calidad]Thanks. Good points. I really did ignore her. Slowly at first but increasingly for 5 years. To the point where she was very very alone.
She had post partum (that can be a very big deal)
and I didn't see through all the screaming and verbal abuse how alone and how much pain she was in - so I put her on anti-depressants and continued ignoring her (I didn't realize I was doing it)
Just so I'm clear, what does this mean? Are you an MD who prescribed anti-depressants for his wife and didn't address the underlying reasons for them? NOT bashing you, just wanting clarity. .
She started complaining about all the child care duties and housework
You make it sound unreasonable of her "complaining" but to be clear, isn't it because she was doing all or most of it AND working too? And had given birth AND had post partum??
so I started taking on more and more of that as a way to make up for my financial failures. She also lent money to my business which is now gone along with both our credit scores.
So you DID help more around the house? But your business went under and hurt hers too? Okay. Anything else?
I am guilty of hurting her deeply and extremely remorseful. [/quote]
Let's accept those words at face value and say you really are aware of the fact you hurt her deeply. AND
Let's say you really are "extremely remorseful."
I never saw any of that in your posts.
I just saw your anger and victimhood feelings.
Neither of which helps you. And neither of which reflects your remorse or awareness of what you did to create this situation. You simply posted about how you wanted to know if YOU could have a sexual online affair...
I'm betting, she feels you pushed her into the arms of OM.
and you concede SHE has been "very very lonely... for 5 years..."
you have been lonely for what, a few months?
And you are Already lining up your plan of attack and how you'll avenge yourself if her affair gets physical
by leaving her AND the kids...Or issuing ultimatums...Good grief!
You have not read the div busting books, have you?
PLEASE DO SO ASAP!
The real question is, what type of personal work are you doing?
Until this post, all I saw was the opposite.
So, what are YOU doing NOW to show her that YOU are different ?
Just so I'm clear, what does this mean? Are you an MD who prescribed anti-depressants for his wife and didn't address the underlying reasons for them? NOT bashing you, just wanting clarity.
-- No. I suggested she she a doctor and she refused so she went to her gynocologist - who told her she needed the meds because she is taking care of two one year olds and needs to remain emotionally stable.
She started complaining about all the child care duties and housework
You make it sound unreasonable of her "complaining" but to be clear, isn't it because she was doing all or most of it AND working too? And had given birth AND had post partum??
--Yes. That's all true. No, it wasn't unreasonable. She wouldn't let me help with the housework because I wasn't up to her standards.
so I started taking on more and more of that as a way to make up for my financial failures. She also lent money to my business which is now gone along with both our credit scores.
So you DID help more around the house? But your business went under and hurt hers too? Okay. Anything else?
--- Yes and Yes.
I am guilty of hurting her deeply and extremely remorseful. [/quote]
Let's accept those words at face value and say you really are aware of the fact you hurt her deeply. AND
Let's say you really are "extremely remorseful."
I never saw any of that in your posts.
I just saw your anger and victimhood feelings.
Neither of which helps you. And neither of which reflects your remorse or awareness of what you did to create this situation. You simply posted about how you wanted to know if YOU could have a sexual online affair...
I'm betting, she feels you pushed her into the arms of OM.
and you concede SHE has been "very very lonely... for 5 years..."
you have been lonely for what, a few months?
-- no, I've been lonely for a number of years too. But yes, correct. she does feel I pushed her into his arms, I assume.
And you are Already lining up your plan of attack and how you'll avenge yourself if her affair gets physical
by leaving her AND the kids...Or issuing ultimatums...Good grief!
You have not read the div busting books, have you?
PLEASE DO SO ASAP!
-- I am reading it right now.
The real question is, what type of personal work are you doing?
Until this post, all I saw was the opposite.
So, what are YOU doing NOW to show her that YOU are different ?
-- I just started going to church. Haven't had a drink in 3 weeks. Reconnecting with old friends. Listening to her much more. Getting away for a few days here and there to give her some space. I'm much more present in the room when I am with her, the kids, the family, friends. I am engaged in my life again and it feels really good.
-- And yes, I am very upset, very confused and very remorseful all at the same time. I feel sick about the way I treated her and I didn't even realize how much pain she was in. At the same time, I can't swallow the idea of living in the same house while she actively dates OM. I don't think I could forgive that was my point.
I don't agree with psych's take on it as far as
"boundary setting" and confronting your w about the EA and OM....
b/c that sounds a lot like an ultimatum. Read the Divorce Remedy book asap
so you can understand why it's a bad idea to issue an ultimatum
Lot's of men and women on here who followed the "boundaries aren't DB" and where are they now? STBXW is pregnant by OM, living with their divorced spouse in the house (while they are still __ing OP), their W is inviting the affair partner over for dinner parties, wives left pregnant or with newborns, and spouses coming and going all times of day with no accountability.
Boundaries in all relationships are needed for them to be healthy. Boundaries are defensive in a nature they are about about how people can treat you. Why would anyone respect, love, cherish or honor you if you let them treat you like dirt?
In my bones I can't believe that any therapist, counselor, coach, psych, doctor, lawyer, police officer, clergyman, rabbi, friend, parent, DB vet, or guru would counsel someone to have no boundaries. I really don't think this is gospel from MWD.
I think boundaries are great. They show you see your spouse and give them freedom to choose their path. They also show that you love yourself and that you think you matter - that's attractive. Probably a 180 for most people too. Lot of heartache can be avoided by having healthy boundaries. Lovingly detach people it works.
"Love God and love your neighbor
as yourself."
Cheers
Coach
"Don't confuse forgiveness with insanity."
Forgiveness is letting bygones be bygones and no longer holding something against someone.
Insanity is making yourself vulnerable to another person's crazyness all over again.
This quote from dbmod makes the case for boundaries. Don't make yourself vulnerable to another person's craziness means you need a boundary. Thanks dbmod for the quote!
Cheers
Here is what DR says about "the Ultimatum"
pp. 230-31
"You can deliver a message such as this face-to-face, in a letter or e-mail, or over the phone. How you do it really doesn't matter. That you do it does. Your spouse will either take you up on your offer or decline. However, s/he might react defensively at first and then soften a bit. Wait a fwe days to see what happens and then, if s/he hasn't responded, ask for an answer. Then act. Either schedule a therapy appointment with a solution-oriented therapist, or go see a good attorney."
Step 3 in DR says to "Ask for What You Want."
Somewhere along the line the message is getting cloudy on the forum.
Boundaries are absolutely necessary. Absolutely. It's in the HOW and WHEN these boundaries are enacted, that is extremely important.
I would say that Coach's last post is correct, but may be a little out of order.
Asking for what you want is important. Knowing what you want must come before that (your goals). Be smart in HOW you ask for what you want.
Delivering an ultimatum, as described on 230-231, is not the first step. But an ultimatum is not the first step in boundary setting.
Start with knowing what you really want in this relationship. Ask for it in a way that your spouse can receive it. If you demand sex right now, you're not going to get it. If you demand she stop her affair right now, you not likely to get it.
Making everything either do this or everything is over is not the best way to build a relationship.
Besides knowing what YOU want, it's important to know what SHE wants, that's where negotiation of boundaries comes in(and boundaries are usually negotiated).
Great discussions.