Here is a title to my old thread.
Too Tired To Fight Brief Overview.
W and I have been separated for almost 5 months due to "I love you but" and "finding herself". D-Bomb dropped on July 9th. July 31st, I found out she is officially dating again. There is no contact unless it is about D.
Journaling...
The reason I didn't name my thread "Too Tired to Fight pt 2" is because it no longer applies to my sitch. Because I'm not too tired to stop fighting. I plan to keep fighting for the rest of my life.
I think the biggest realization that I have made in the last 5 months is that it's truly not about saving my m, it is about saving me. You hear it on the board all the time, but it's hard to understand... especially when you are new to this kind of pain. It's hard because we are in our own fog. A fog of pain and confusion where our only goal is to save our marriage.. NO MATTER WHAT. Don't get me wrong, there is nothing wrong with the "save our marriage" mentality (lord knows I still wish I could) but we can twist it to not only pursue and beg, but to stop from detaching, or be paralyzed in so much fear we can't make decisions. We can use that goal to keep things status quo because we focus soo much on fixing the "unit", we don't look at ourselves. The individual that makes up 50% of the unit. I don't know if that makes sense. I'm not sure I can really describe it.
So when I say I plan to keep fighting for the rest of my life, I don't mean for my marriage. I mean for me. Just because my validating and understanding didn't stop my w from walking out the door. Nor did my 180s stop her from walking out of my life, didn't mean it didn't save me. For me, DBing goes way beyond my marriage, but into all r's. It's hard and it's sad, but every day I become more okay with the fact that even though I am working on me it doesn't mean my m will get better. I am learning to be okay with the fact that this hardship is in my life so I can become a better Val.
I'm learning who I want to be at that's why I labeled my sitch what I have. I've been challenged by wonderful people on this board to condense my goals and set actions. I know I don't have everything figured out yet and probably won't for awhile, but it seems that my 13 goals can be achieved from those four words. Grace, Love, Compassion, and Faith.
For my w, for myself, for sitch, my friends, my family, co-workers, and even people I've never met. It just seems that if I do my d@mndest to have every interaction, action, etc come from that place.. things will be alright. Better than alright, it will be great.
I consider this a moment of clarity in the craziness and emotional rollercoaster of what is - my current life.
Thanks Edmond. Your suggestion was great... I just added to it.
What a great post Valeska and so true. It is something I had to read tonight as I remind myself that I am changing my life for me.
That is a great post and POV...Now go GAL the sh!t out of this weekend!
RO & DG. Your welcome. I'm glad my words helped.
@ JS - I might have consider getting that tattooed somewhere.. lol
Can I just say how excited I am that football season is here.
WE ARE PENN STATE!
Val, very, very nice post. What an excellent attitude. You're coming a long way!
W and I connected yesterday in regards to my email question.
Conversation started with my FB post about not being able to watch Penn State. We chatted about that for a minute.
Our conversation about the mediation email was pleasant. She mentioned that she just wanted to create the list of assets beforehand so we could "quickly" discuss things when we met. That we could each have a gameplan going into it. I told her that made sense.
She also reiterated that she wanted to meet soon. I told her I was on a show and would let her know when I was available. She handled it well. It was the best I could do as I'm still working out some emotional stuff in regards to the meeting.
We talked about the check. Again she mentioned that she wanted to cash it soon. That it makes her uncomfortable that a large amount of money is on a piece of paper. I told her that made sense.
Then she asked "You doing ok?" I replied that I was good. I asked how she was. She said good also. She talked about school a little bit (she's a teacher). I kept my answers short and sweet. I really wanted to end the conversation first, but she always beats me to it. It's kinda hard when we are in the middle of something and then she is like "got to go".
I'm glad the conversation went well. Seems the anger from our last interaction (the hickey incident) dissipated.
It didn't stop me from crying afterwards. As much as I'm thankful that w was being pleasant vs. angry, interaction is still very hard for me. To know that she watches my FB, ask how I'm doing, and talk so freely about all the stuff we used to in regards to work yet doesn't make a commitment to be in my life at all is hard to swallow. Honestly, the fact that she cares a little but not enough.. still breaks my heart.
After the sadness, came the anger. The anger that I asked her to do so many things and she always procrastinated... but this.. "she have the list to me by Monday".
Those feelings didn't stay long though either. After all, I said I just wanted her to be kind to me throughout this process. Yesterday that happened. So I need to remember the positive there.
Everything else are just feelings and that's ok too. Eventually I was able to see that this too is difficult for her. To speculate - I'm sure she cares, but this is just too hard. To much of an effort. Once the D is final, the pain is over and she can move on. No more dealing with me, or us. She can truly focus on her and her life.
I still will continue to be on my timeline. Honestly, I'm very emotional still.. so I'm not sure how to keep them in check during the mediation. I handled it well, but there were plenty of times where I wanted to say "I know you want to handle this fast, but I need time". Which that's true, but I knew I feeling defensive, hurt, and controlled. And that was all in a 15 minute conversation.
Last night I tried a new line dancing place. Today is church and basketball. Life isn't bad, it's just not what I expected it to be.
I will just keep on keeping on.
ps. She ended the conversation thanking me for "picking up". I said "of course". Still pleasant.
I'm not sure of the intent, but I did set the boundary that I can not do this on her timeline. I can not be forced to have meetings and talk about things I'm not ready to talk about it. She's respecting that.. so I guess that's a good thing. IDK.
Val, very, very nice post. What an excellent attitude. You're coming a long way!
Aww thanks (((JB))). Baby steps and time. It's hard to believe the progress that has been made since November. I'd rather not be hurting... but the fact that I'm growing from the pain
almost makes it worth it. I'm sure as I keep my eye on the positives the word "almost" will continue to fade.
Thanks E and thanks for stopping by my thread!
Your journey has been amazing so far Val. I think your progress is incredible. It's such a difficult thing to go through... I'm grateful that I found this forum. It's comforting to know that in so many ways our WAS almost follow a textbook as do our own emotions. I realize I'm not INSANE when I read others' stories.
I hope u are having a wonderful So Cal day. I used to live in Burbank a long time ago, practically in another life
I also lived in San Francisco for a while. How I ended up in the midwest is a tale in itself (LOL).
Take heart Val. Take heart.
Another conversation w/ wife just happened.
W just ran into one of my favorite actors from Xena on the street and had a 10 minute conversation with her. W said she was so glad I picked up and that she just had to call me. We talked and laughed about it for a few minutes and I thanked her for thinking of me. She still managed to get off the phone first! D@mn.
It was sweet, but I'm not reading into it at all. She knows I love that show so I'm glad she thought of me. I'll chalk it up as a positive. If not for the r, just that the venom has stopped.
The only thing I will say is that most likely our pleasant conversation on Saturday sparked another one today. She could have very easily texted me that info. Texting/Emailing is usually what she does when she doesn't want to actually talk to me or is scared. Who knows.
Also got briefly hung up about the fact this actress was with one of w's "guy" friends.. however if this guy was more than a friend, it would be pretty ballsy for her to say that to me. She could have left that part out.
Just thinking out loud here to make sure I don't get on my hamster wheel.
Still doesn't make it easy. It's a battle between wanting to set the boundary (make a commitment to be in my life or stop hurting me) vs. trying to keep things smooth for if she reaches out. Good thing is that I don't have to make that decision today.
Back to my fantasy football draft.
Val, I am glad you had some positive interactions with your W, and glad they were light and easy. Just be prepared for the pull back. Keep your positive attitude going and keep growing through this junk!
Thanks JB.. Meeee Too!
Oh I'm prepared. My w has a habit of contacting me right after friendly conversations especially when she can express herself about D (odd isn't it?). She'll talk my ear off and then go dark for weeks. Part of her "It's difficult to have you in my life so most days I make the decision to not" feeling.
This time however I won't buy the ticket to that rollercoaster. I won't make the same mistake. Last time I told her that her dipping in and out confuses me. This time.. I just won't let it confuse me. I'll give me the power to detach instead of expecting her to step up.
As for the positive attitude.. holding onto it with a death grip!
Not alot to report on the S/D journey. W hasn't gotten me the asset list yet. I did have a moment of "happiness" when she didn't meet her own deadline, but I remember how hard it was when I created the list. I'm sure the same rings true for her.
About to start a new show for 3 weeks. Time to put the new tools/new Val into something other than r with w. The show is very difficult/challenging. I do love me a good challenge.
It's been awhile since I 2nd AD'ed. Brief film lesson - 2nd AD's are the right hand person of the 1st AD's. They plan the logistics of NEXT day. They make sure everything is in order so the 1st can come in and execute his schedule. They also are responsible for everyone else under their department.
IMO it's the much harder of the jobs. It's actually the one I enjoy more.. but haven't done since March. I'm a little rusty, not with logistics... but not being the boss.
The 1st AD went ahead and hired a very green staff. It has me a little stressed, negative, and honestly.. haughty. All stuff I'm working on. I need to remember that there was a day when I wasn't quite "qualified" to do the job and someone reached out and taught me. Now it is my turn.
I'm sure the staff is excited, scared, nervous, and a bunch of other things. Their feelings are valid and effect how they perform. I need to remember that.
I prolly sound like an a-hole. It's not that I mean to negative or stressed. I feel like my heart is genuinely in the right place. It's more of teaching an old dog new tricks (even if the dog is young). Time, patience, and alot of hard work.
I don't really know if I am having a down day.. just have alot of thoughts going through my head this morning.
It's been 2 months since D bomb, and 5 months since separation. It's hard to believe that its been 4.5 months since my w decided to cut me out of her life. 4.5 months since we stopped talking and hanging out. I know I still miss her, but there are parts of me that isn't sure if we would get along or if I'd enjoy her company today.
We definitely seem to be growing in different directions. I wonder if she misses me and our connection or if she too, like me, wakes up with it hurting a little less and accepting (even starting to enjoy) my new path.
I think deep down I wished she would have come out of her "fog", but I honestly don't see that happening. She's on a long journey to find herself. I still continue to believe that I am a reminder of the old her and until she can come to terms with that (if she ever will) I won't get to part of the new life.
Although I'm really happy with my progress, I'm struggling to stay on my path. Not that I don't want to show my thread title, it's just hard staying true to it when it's not having the results I want. I know deep down that's not why I show her grace and compassion, but the human side of me is disappointed that it hasn't made her want to be in my life, or keeps her believing that I will always be around.
I spoke to a friend last night. I was thinking of trying something new. I FB alot of my life and since I neither seem to have the strength or peace to delete my w from FB, I thought about posting less. I wanted to create a little mystery.
It's not like I FB every move, but I do FB about work, what I'm grateful for, Football, new experiences. Basically anything positive. It's one of the last threads of communication my w and I have. She doesn't comment often, but she does look and they are our conversation starters in the rare chance we do speak. I know she follows me. I haven't looked at her page in 3 months.
I guess I feel like this just enables her to "be in my life" w/o investing in my life. Idk if that makes sense.
My best friend didn't like the idea of posting less. He said that I should delete her (as does all of my friends) because it's slowing down my process of healing. I can't say that's he wrong with that statement.
He also admitted he is starting to hate my w. That he is bitter and angry at all the pain I'm in. He asked me if he could start calling her my XW. I said that as of now she is my w, and I won't call her my xw for awhile, but he could call her what he felt comfortable.
I also told him that his feelings were valid. He's my best friend and he has seen me at my worst. He's been so patient and so kind. He has watched my pain and watched my growth since S. It would make sense that those feelings would come up.
HOWEVER his feelings are not mine. I told him I have no intention of getting bitter or angry. I wake up every day forgiving my w and that although his journey is his.. my journey seems to be one of.. you guessed it.. love, grace, compassion, and faith.
Anyway.. my journal is getting long. I have more to post on the last two paragraphs.
As for the FB, I just don't really know what to do. I probably won't do anything. It's just stupid to give something like a website SO MUCH POWER.
It seems that whatever 180 I try to "make it work" will somehow to be twisted into w thinking either I will always be around, or that I'm just acting out of anger. I don't want to think for her, but I do still know her. However I act or whatever I do will be a consequence of her "figuring out who she is" and no matter if it's good or bad, she will continue on that path.
Therefore my 180s are for me alone and who I want to be. Doing stuff that I can be proud of regardless on if it has any effect on my w.
Still doesn't make it easy. Still doesn't mean I don't want to try new 180's or try to figure out what works and what doesn't.
I feel like I've learned alot about myself in the past 5 months. I'm not sure how much I've changed the dynamic of my m in the past 5 months.
Sorry for the long post.
I know I still miss her, but there are parts of me that isn't sure if we would get along or if I'd enjoy her company today.
This makes a lot of sense to me. Almost half a year apart - its to be expected that things might be a little funky. Especially that your consciousness is probably in a different space than it was last time.
, it's just hard staying true to it when it's not having the results I want. I know deep down that's not why I show her grace and compassion, but the human side of me is disappointed that it hasn't made her want to be in my life
It isn't impacting her the way you want it to, but how is it impacting you? Are you living up to what is best in you?
I would suggest that it is the human side of you that is doing the work of keeping you on your path despite the fact that it isn't having the effect you want it to have on your W. It is also the side that allows you to deal with the disappointment that you feel at the moment.
I guess I feel like this just enables her to "be in my life" w/o investing in my life. Idk if that makes sense.
Crystal clear. You feel like she is monitoring your experiences and adventures so she is kind of 'connected' but at the same time she is free from having to make any kind of substantial movement in terms of being a part of your real life. Given your previous relationship dynamic, this kind of thing seems off to you, right?
FWIW my W deleted her facebook profile after being a facebook fiend for the past year or so. My M status is still Married although I'm pondering if I should delete it.
The struggle to remain in your own mind in the face of other people's reactivity and opinions can be very difficult. It sounds like you are doing a good job of it by telling your friend he is free to have his feelings and emotions about it but you are going to stick to yours.
I do wonder if perhaps it depends on the way one defines hate and how it is targeted. If you are seeking to be compassionate, hatred is a difficult emotion to reconcile as it requires a lack of empathy.. but perhaps there is room for it within the larger consciousness we all possess. Just a thought.
Therefore my 180s are for me alone and who I want to be. Doing stuff that I can be proud of regardless on if it has any effect on my w.
No harm in this. In fact, there is a lot of good in taking that stance, IMO.
I'm not sure how much I've changed the dynamic of my m in the past 5 months.
Invariably when we change, the world around us changes. It may not always change in the obvious or focused way that we hope for. You know this already, though.
You have done tremendous work and evolved a lot over the past 5 months. This is important stuff! I have to think that you respect yourself more as a result of all of this. As you acknowledge, your W's path right now is pretty blatantly her own. Whether or not it leads her to where she believes it may take her, well... who knows?
Following your story, Val - you are doing great! Very inspirational.
@ Lucky
Thanks Lady!
@Aeo
Thanks for your reply. You bring up alot of great points and ask some awesome questions! I will answer once I've collected my thoughts. Appreciate ya man!
Hope everyone GAL's the sh!t out of their weekend.
I have been thinking alot about 9/11 today.
I was 18 when it happened. I worked at a bar with no career ambition. I had been out and proud for almost a year and was trying my first relationship with a girl (an unhealthy one but that's another story
).
My mom called and I couldn't believe it. I don't remember crying. Perhaps i did. However I'm not sure I really got the impact on our nation.. or on me. I never thought "What was I suppose take away from this experience or What could I learn from this experience?" I guess that would have been complicated thinking for an 18 yr old.
Now 10 days away from being almost 29 yrs of age, I'm just keep thinking about what if someone I cared about died tomorrow? Not people that I'm on good terms with, but people I struggle with. People who have done me wrong. People in which I associate anger and pain with. People who I associate with fear. So much fear that I can't move forward at times.
People like my w and my dad. What if they were gone for good?
I can argue that my feelings are valid and I can say "You hurt me.. so this justifies my actions". And of course my feelings are valid.. but I guess I am not convinced that they justify not forgiving or at least attempting to heal a relationship.
I'm sure some people that died that day were dealing with our issues. Infidelity, Anger, Abuse, Drugs, Pregnancy, etc. I'm sure there are also their survivors that were also dealing with those issues.
And I wonder.. if either person knew it was going to happen.. would they right their wrongs? I wonder if those feelings and that pain that survivors were going through 10 yrs ago even matter. That in the moment of realization of the loved one being gone, all those "feelings" were replaced by a greater one. If The feelings of anger and fear are now overshadowed by the loss or even the fond memories once shared?
Today I look at 9/11 and am saddened to see that even though we are aware of this possibility, many of us still make the CHOICE to not right our wrongs. We chose to leave the anger in our hearts therefore denying love to not only the people who wronged us, but to ourselves.
Why does it seem that death is one of the biggest motivators to change, yet we always assume it will happen later? We know from the minute we are born, we will die.. yet we still live by this statement "There will always be tomorrow".
I know when I first wrote about 9/11 on FB.. I thought "I wonder if my w will think that I wrote it so I could "tell" her to work on us, because we have all those feelings towards each other. That by writing it, I would be trying to take away her justifications to leaving our m and not talking to me.
I'm sure there is a part of me that is.. but I am taking away the justification for myself as well. It's not ok. It's not okay that I chose to be angry at someone rather than love them. It's not okay that I keep saying "I'll take care of that later".
So maybe after 10 years I finally learned what I needed to from 9/11. Now the challenge will be to live it.
Hey Val...
Just wanted to pop by your thread and tell you I think you're doing fantastic. You've come a long way and are offering great support and feedback to other DBers on the forum...
I love your thought process on this in your post above:
"I'm sure some people that died that day were dealing with our issues. Infidelity, Anger, Abuse, Drugs, Pregnancy, etc. I'm sure there are also their survivors that were also dealing with those issues."
Yes, probably not something an 18yo is likely to process... never mind likely MOST people wouldn't process... fantastic introspection...!
And also, consider how every day, people are being impacted by those thing above... irrelevant of the goings on in the world... while the rest of the world is oblivious...
As we say around here... keep on, keeping on...!
Thanks KD! I appreciate you kind words and for stopping by my thread. You offer some pretty great feedback yourself.
Val, This will ramble a bit and I’ll use examples from my experience. This isn’t about me I cite examples to clarify what I am trying to say.
In 25’s sig line “Forgiveness: it's your way out of hell.” To me this says forgiveness is key, and learning to forgive yourself, and others for the wrongs is a process we must all eventually master to find peace.
Most of my life Mom has been trying to teach me a life lesson.
I have seen her wronged, anger and in some cases rage have flared, then the next day or so forgiveness. Her mantras have been, “life is too short to stay angry”, “they will pay for the hurt they have caused when they stand before God”, and “forgiving them takes away their ability to hurt me”.
That is not to say she has permitted herself to be wronged repeatedly. She doesn’t carry a grudge, she forgives, and she doesn’t forget. The ability to forgive begins within. You forgive yourself first, realizing your value, that you are worthy of forgiveness. We all are and so are they.
Relationships that were damaged can take a long time to heal. We learn in DR and here that the old relationship may not heal, that we need to think of this as building a new relationship. Regardless of the approach they both need patience, space and hope. There needs to be a genuine desire from all parties to work at it. Sometimes the desire just isn’t present or present at the same time. To pine while waiting for a relationship to heal isn’t healthy and IMO has a very low probability of success. So we GAL and move forward hoping for the day all parties wish to heal the relationship. Confidence and strength are much healthier and attractive than indecision and wasting away.
There was a rift between Mom and who her remaining living brother was. It was big enough for my cousins and me to grow up without ever really knowing each other. My cousin R is five year older than I. I have vague childhood memories of him. I have much better memories of him from the last 15 years.
They healed the rift when they were ready. My Uncle made the first overture expressing concern about a tornado touchdown. He was concerned about Mom’s safety. He was motivated by stories of devastation. Healing took several years, and they became siblings again before he past. Point being they both needed to be ready to forgive themselves.
September 11 is a watershed moment for many it has been burned into the national conscience. It is recent. It is poignant to me also. There are other moments reminding us life is too short for grudges. My father lit a candle and reflected on September 15. I do so on October 23.
I will not tell you what to do with FB. You are in control of what you use it for and what you post there. I will ask is it good for you? Does it forward you?
Currently I use FB for two reasons. There is a small group of friends I connect with. I never thought I would use the evil scourge of the earth for anything this constructive. I also use FB as a window to display “I am still standing here, strong, resolute, my honor and principals intact”. I do not care if she see’s it or what she thinks of it if she does. I post for the extended family, the nieces, nephews and my children, to see how to handle a gut check blow and its aftermath.
Thanks JS!! I appreciate you always and feel free to explain yourself with stories anytime.
Like I said to Aeo. I will give my thoughts.. once I have them.
Hard to collect thoughts currently. Swimming in some rough waters right now. My emotions are really high. Been really wanting w to come around - thus causing anger, extreme sadness, and all around - a bunch of other sh!t. Feeling angry at God for allowing this to happen. I actually said.. "but I don't want to grow!" (which is totally not true, but am feeling overwhelmed with the amount of work I have to do to keep myself and my life together). Having a hard time allowing my heart to follow my head.
I'm sure this is all coming up from her asking me what I thought of the asset list and continuing to ask when we are going to sit down and have our mediation. I never got one so I told her that. She said "Odd.. here it is".
Stupid expectations. Thinking that it would be as hard for her as it was for me. Hoping she wouldn't send it. I hear 25 saying now.. "It probably was hard for her". I'm sure it was so I'll rephrase "Not hard enough for her to stop wanting D".
Time to be strong and deal with her. Email her back. Try to set a time to have this meeting.
I'm sure it also doesn't help that my birthday is on the 20th. Saturday my friends are being awesome. Paintball in the morning, huge party at night. Alot of mixed feelings there also.
The D is just becoming very real and honestly.. I'm having a hard time handling it. I feel like every thing I would write currently would be a huge journal entry in which I would need an endless supply of tissues and a whiskey and gingerale.
I don't know what this stage is. It kinda blows.
Val:
Thanks for journaling...you've helped me in my situation.
I'm in a similar stage...the D is becoming real and it's put me in an emotional loop as well. When I think about it, it's like learning someone close to you is terminal ill. You go through the "stages" and you learn "to deal" with the situation. When the person does finally succumb, it opens up a bevy of emotions that you thought you had worked through.
As we all know, no way to bypass this phase. All we can do is keep on keeping on. Hang in there and know that you are not alone. The weather here in LA has been nice...maybe getting out and enjoying the sun will lighten your mood.
Val, the rollercoaster ride always gets worse when we have expectations. You have a bunch. It is ok we all do. I try to keep mine at bay or at least turned down to a dull roar. After a long while, longer for some, they begin to fall away. I don’t think they are ever completely gone, but I think eventually we find ways to live again, and live better.
Every so often a vet from here will pop in and speak about how there is a brighter light at the end of the tunnel. That their life is brighter, more satisfying, better after passing through this stinking pile of gelatinous fecal matter. Ever watch the sewer pipe crawl Andy does in the Shawshank Redemption?
In each of our lives we have had experiences that were rights of passage, where we become something better. We will do this again! We will become better!
It is very tempting to map this out. It is natural to do so. We want to know where the end will be. This did not work for me as it set expectations and I became more wrapped up in enduring it than working on bettering myself.
Give yourself a break, you have a lot going on that demands your focus. I expect the shoot you’re on has similar complexities to the projects I have. Compartmentalization is a useful learned skill that has gotten me through more than once.
Try and visualize placing all of this BS, the drama, W, and anything else related into a shoebox, alright a bootbox, place that box on the top shelf in the back of the closet. Only when you’re ready or you absolutely need to pull it down, open it up and deal. They cannot stay locked away forever, although it is tempting to do so. Compartmentalization helps me focus. Not always or as well as I would like, we all have our moments.
There is a concept here about letting go of the WAS. It is referred to as dropping the rope. I probably will not do it justice.
When the WAS departs, running away and we stop the initial pursuit we hold on to hope clinging to pleasant interactions and small signs they are turning back to us. The WAS perceives the hope and runs away faster. It is as if they have an invisible rope tied to them and we hold the other end in a death grip. The more they perceive the resistance of the rope the harder they run. If we drop the rope, then there is no resistance. What are they running from? It cannot be a strategy the rope needs to truly drop. For if it is a strategy when the WAS tests and sees hope renewed they will feel the tug of the rope and run some more.
It is very hard. I know this well as do many others here. If it is not a strategy, if when the WAS tests they do not see hope, they do not feel the tug of the rope then they may stop running for a time and begin to take stock. If they look back then and see the person they would be foolish to leave, and if that vision remains true, then they may begin an overture and the LBS may see the first baby steps to a new R.
It is not all milk and cookies. There are a lot of “ifs” here. Mom used to say “If ifs and buts were candy and nuts we’d all have a very fine Christmas” That is why we better ourselves, steel our resolve to make it out of this hell. For the WAS may not look back until it is too late, until after we have moved on to someone better. There is always someone better!
Do we really want someone who is running away so hard and spewing venom to hurt us? The possessed by the alien WAS? I do not. I deserve better. So do you! Frankly I wouldn’t mind being pursued a little. It would be a much need ego boost. That is not likely to happen sitting around waiting for the drama to end so get out and enjoy your birthday.
Happy birthday! Paintball, whiskey and ginger ale sounds like a recipe to me.
Drink a better whiskey and you will not need to adulterate the taste.
It isn't impacting her the way you want it to, but how is it impacting you? Are you living up to what is best in you?
It's a mixed bag honestly. In some ways.. I am really happy with myself. My dad left for 9 months when I was 9 and I never really got past it. While in MC with my w, I explained that this felt very similar to me. I promised her and myself that I would do everything in my power not to hate her. To stop being selfish and hear what she has to say. I've made it a point to do that across the board in my life and am really happy with the results. It's radically changing almost all aspects of my life.. except with w.
The negative side is that it feels like constant work. It's constant because I don't get to "shut off". I don't get to let the anger consume me. So feeling everything else is painful. It's retraining my brain ALL THE TIME. At least that what it feels like.
While I change and my w appears to not notice anymore, it's a huge temptation to "treat her as she treats me" vs. "treating her as I would want to be treated". It's not that she is being mean, it's just that she has stopped caring about if things hurt me, she has stopped caring about my feelings. It doesn't help that some of my friends think that I abuse the grace and compassion to stop from moving on and to fuel my co-dependency issues.
It's a lot aeo and If I'm honest, I'm fighting myself. I'm fighting my selfish wants and fighting my negative feelings. I very much felt like I didn't have a "voice" in my m. Now I don't have one in my D and it bothers me. The truth is that I do have a voice, always have, but never thought my w heard me or have been afraid to use it.. etc.
Crystal clear. You feel like she is monitoring your experiences and adventures so she is kind of 'connected' but at the same time she is free from having to make any kind of substantial movement in terms of being a part of your real life. Given your previous relationship dynamic, this kind of thing seems off to you, right?
it is a change in dynamic. My w and I spent a lot of time together. Too much time together. The reasons behind are both positive and negative. She admitted that I embarrassed her. I was too shy and a lot of her friends weren't super comfortable with a lesbian couple. I. She always wanted to be normal and we weren't. It was always hard walking into a situation where people didn't accept me My friends were a complete 180 but I had more. She felt jealous.
However at the same time, it is the same. My w ran when things got hard. When she didn't want to deal with me or m, she didn't. When she didn't feel like she was worthy to be in people's lives, she didn't make the effort. I don't know what her reasons are now.. I guess it doesn't matter.
Sometimes when I talk about all of this stuff.. I think "no wonder she feels like we can't change our dynamic. We were so unhealthy together in a lot of ways.. no wonder she doesn't want to work on the m or have me in her life. It would mean a sh!tload of work".
You have done tremendous work and evolved a lot over the past 5 months. This is important stuff! I have to think that you respect yourself more as a result of all of this. As you acknowledge, your W's path right now is pretty blatantly her own. Whether or not it leads her to where she believes it may take her, well... who knows?
Thank you. I do. That's true about w. Just dealing with the fact it doesn't include me. In many ways it feels like I'm back in every stage of the grieving process EXCEPT acceptance.. which is where I want to be.
"However at the same time, it is the same. My w ran when things got hard. When she didn't want to deal with me or m, she didn't. When she didn't feel like she was worthy to be in people's lives, she didn't make the effort. I don't know what her reasons are now.. I guess it doesn't matter.
Sometimes when I talk about all of this stuff.. I think "no wonder she feels like we can't change our dynamic. We were so unhealthy together in a lot of ways.. no wonder she doesn't want to work on the m or have me in her life. It would mean a sh!tload of work".
This. Right here. You have nailed what I think is true for so many couples. I read this and thought, "That's us."
Why do so many marriages fail, yet we all know at least 1 couple who make it look so effortless; couples who have been married 30, 40, 50 years...
Trust and honesty, I suppose. My W used to say she didn't feel safe with me...she meant she could not feel safe opening up to me. Like your W, it was easier for my W to just not put the effort into breaking that barrier, which would frustrate me, which would cause her to shut down even more and on and on and on...
any chance posted a question in his thread asking when I (or anyone) knew it was time to say "Enough. I'm done." To paraphrase my reply, I said that when I tried to picture us reconciled, I saw a marriage of suspicion and convenience. I thought it would be too easy for us to slip back into our co-dependent ways, regardless of how much work I had successfully done on myself, because my W has not and will not look inside herself and try to take out the garbage.
I guess what I'm saying, V, is that if you step back from where you are right now and take an honest, cold, realistic look at where you would be with your W if you reconciled, you might come to the same conclusions.
The negative side is that it feels like constant work. It's constant because I don't get to "shut off". I don't get to let the anger consume me. So feeling everything else is painful. It's retraining my brain ALL THE TIME. At least that what it feels like.
So you feel like the work of feeling the pain without going into anger is work?
It probably is, in many ways. You are confronting your impulses to get more 'animalistic' and working keeping your thoughts in the most 'human' part of the brain (the parts that have evolved most recently and are broadly seen as the source of our highest cognitive functions). So.. yeah. You are working to retrain your brain.
But that is a good thing, for you - you're evolving!
It's not that she is being mean, it's just that she has stopped caring about if things hurt me, she has stopped caring about my feelings. It doesn't help that some of my friends think that I abuse the grace and compassion to stop from moving on and to fuel my co-dependency issues.
So, in your mind, do you think that her choices and behaviors should be playing a role in yours at this point?
Do you think you are abusing grace and compassion?
How is it stopping you from moving on? And how is it fueling your "co-dependency issues"?
Does the fact that you are choosing to be graceful and compassionate towards your W despite her actions towards you make you a more or less reactive person?
It's a lot aeo and If I'm honest, I'm fighting myself. I'm fighting my selfish wants and fighting my negative feelings. I very much felt like I didn't have a "voice" in my m.
Are all your wants selfish? None of them are valid?
You are a warrior heroically doing battle with your own dark side. You are bravely staring into the face of your self and not turning away. Its a battle only you can wage but you seem to be waging it with a strong heart.
Some of what you say about your shyness and her wishes to be normal and running resonate with my own sitch, so forgive me if this feels at all like I'm projecting on to yours.
What do you think her wishes to be 'normal' were rooted in?
I wonder if your shyness and her tendency to run aren't two sides of a very similar coin? Do you think thats possible?
In many ways it feels like I'm back in every stage of the grieving process EXCEPT acceptance.. which is where I want to be.
What do you feel like you are grieving?
What is it that you are accepting?
Is it different from what you were grieving/accepting before?
@ Aeo. More to think about. I like it.
Quick Journal..
Been waking up after only 5 hrs of sleep every night all week and very sick to my stomach. This stopped in August.. I'm not too excited about it coming back.
Work has me stressed. One of the producers is green but instead of admitting when she doesn't know the rules, she just makes my job difficult. Trying different tactics (other than telling her what how it is) but nothing seems to be working. It's like high school.
Birthday celebration is tomorrow. Still haven't found a bar yet.. but have friends on it. I had a dream that my w had a surprise birthday gift for me to go paintballing and was upset that I was going with my friends instead.
That was fun. I've been trying to push w out of my mind since my work has me a little too busy to do anything about it. So I guess my sitch needed to work it's way into my brain somehow.
The dream was about two things. The stress and sadness of my 1st birthday w/o w. I know I will be hurt if she doesn't wish me happy birthday. I know I will be hurt if she does. Trying to manage my expectations there.
The 2nd is of her being jealous of my friends. It's not like I hung out with them often, but I always did get alot more phone calls and invites than her. It wasn't she joined OA until she began to have a social life.. with other OAers.
I responded to her asset list yesterday. Her list is very broad. It looks like it took her 5 minutes to write it. I created one awhile back that is in much more detail. So I told her I will have stuff to add to it. She included our wedding rings on the list which I thought was interesting. I didn't even think to consider them.
I also told her I couldn't meet in Sept. I'm working 14 hrs a day M-F and our mediator isn't available on the weekends. I said we could try to schedule the first week in October. I don't know how she will handle it.
I still don't really want to see her though. I don't want to have these meetings and I don't want D. Weird thing is that I'm not sure I want M either. There are a ton of feelings there.
However I have to make sure I'm not using this feelings to run away from her. I've been praying to God that if he doesn't feel I'm ready to take this step to not open the door.. but when he feels I am, I will walk through it.
I will be scared sh!tless... but I'll take that first step.
Val, your growth is amazing. I think you have done so much hard work on yourself. I always read your posts.
If you get a chance, go check out mine. I could use your insight in addition to all the great insight I get over there (25 years is a true fountain of wisdom!!). I guess since u and I are both in same sex R, i was wondering if you had anything to add to my sitch. Right now I'm thinking i'm hitting a rock bottom... and not sure how/if I'll make it through.
@ Shock.
Thank you.. I appreciate it! It's definitely a 2 step forward, 1 step back process. I'm okay with that.
I have been reading your sitch so I will post soon. Sorry.. I've been super busy and super emotional. When I'm emotional I don't post much as I can't be trusted with what I say..
.
In the meantime, listen to 25. She pushes me really hard. She sometimes says things that I don't want to hear but she always speaks up for my w who can't defend herself here.
((( ))) Hang tight. You'll get through this.
Val,
How was your birthday?
Did you GAL the $h!t out of it?
Val, Just checking in. I know you’re busily occupied. Take care of you.
Quick Journal,
Today is my 29th birthday. Spent about 30 minutes crying this morning before work. 1st one w/o my wife in 9 yrs.
Didn't know if she was going to wish me happy birthday or not. Figured it was a lose/lose situation for me.
She sent me an email
-------------
"Happy Birthday Val. I hope this new year of life brings you much joy and happiness!"
W
-------------
I don't know what I think about it. I want to say it's a nice sentiment but at the same time, I feel it's very impersonal. Like I said.. lose/lose.
Why can't I just be happy with the HUGE amount of love shown by friends and family? Why am I only seeing the glass as half empty?
I hope you can make the best it of today. Happy Birthday. Wish I was 29.
Why can't I just be happy with the HUGE amount of love shown by friends and family? Why am I only seeing the glass as half empty?
This ^^^^^^^^^we do to our selves by stinking thinking. ((((HUGS))))
I think you're feelings make a lot of sense under the circumstances.
But you also see that you have alternative ways to look at it, and that is a good thing.
Have an awesome birthday!!! You've certainly grown up a lot this year.
Happy Birthday Valeska. I truly hope today is a special day for you.
I had my 1st bday without my H in May. Our anniversary was in June, and his bday is in a few weeks. It is hard to spend all these occasions without him, but I remind myself that it won't always feel like this.
You have grown so much. Be proud of yourself.
Val, she sent a birthday greeting. Expectations of something more are causing disappointment. Let go of the expectations. Show yourself some compassion. You’ve looked at yourself honestly and grown as a person.
Happy Birthday! I plan on having an IPA later and will toast your growth and health.
Happy Birthday Val!!
Take the positives out of the fact your W did send you a birthday greeting.
Hope you did and/or will do something special for yourself today! You deserve it!!
Thank you all for the birthday wishes and support!
Overall - My Birthday went well
Saturday - I was picked up and driven to paintball. I was completely taken care of. We played at multiple courses. I was shot first in my pinkie, followed by a bunch in my face (Thankfully I wore a mask). Towards the end, we were all on the same team.. labeled "Val's bada$$es". It was awesome!
From there we went to lunch at a small little diner. I remember looking at the table and thinking "all these friends have been with me through this sh!t! I couldn't have asked for a better group of people"
Later I threw a party. About 25 people came. A g/f came over to do my hair and make-up. I danced my a$$ off. It was great.
Missed my w very little that day.
Lots of Love followed at church on Sunday.. and a hang over. Posted my pics on FB, 5 minutes later… my w unmarried us. Still kept me on as a friend though. Guess god answered that prayer.. at least for now.
Yesterday was probably one of the most stressful days at set however I was joyous and very upbeat. I mentioned how I cried in the morning, but I prayed hard that God remind me of the love in my life and he provided. None stop love from the crew, followed by tons of emails and post. I was swamped with it. I missed my w.. but even she too wished me happy b-day. Got off that emotional rollercoaster pretty fast.
Went out or beers with my bestie after work and we talked about the year. What was amazing was how much positivity came out of my mouth. I'm getting a divorce. I lost my best friend and the woman that I can honestly say, loved more than anyone. I should have said that this year sucked…
But instead.. I am building deeper relationship with friends. Work has improved tremendously.
My r with my w might be over, but I spent 6 months putting in every effort to save my m. Really trying to understand her perspective, fears, wants.. and put mine aside. To give love with out expectations (I know I still struggle with them). To work on stuff that bothered her (needy, controlling, negative). I lost the battle, but I can say that I didn't lose the war. I don't regret a thing.
I have grown so much in the past year. I feel more positive and more loving. My anger still comes up, but it doesn't consume me. I am happier. I look forward to pushing my growth further.
My bestie's response… "Yeah.. I definitely see that in you now. You've really changed in the past year."
Came home to a card from MIL. She wished me the best and said thanked me for taking care of her daughter while we were together. She told me to remember the good times w and I shared, and not get stuck in the bad stuff. It was signed from her and "Gram X". I cried. I loved w's gram. She treated me like a granddaughter.
I'm thinking about writing MIL a response back. First to say thanks, and then to say what's on my mind. Her and w have a crappy relationship.. I know they both want one, but are stuck in so much fear to move forward. I know it's not my place, but now that my own mother is sick and my limited time with her is becoming more apparent, I want to say something about not allowing fear to paralyze them. I will think on it .. maybe post here about it.
Spent the rest of the night thanking the 80 people that wished me happy birthday on FB That took a little bit of time but if they took the time to write "HB".. I could take the time to write "thx". Plus alot of the posts were super loving. Just another reminder of how much Love my birthday was full of.
Responded to w as well. "Thanks for the email. I appreciate you thinking of me today!"
And that my friends was my 1st birthday w/o my w in a long time. Fully of sadness and joy, disappointment and love, expectations - both good and bad.
P.S. Aeo, JS, and Tele.. been really thinking about what you said. I can't seem to post anything about it as I am on my own emotional rollercoaster right now. Trying to figure out the truth, my wants, my boundaries. Thank you for posing the hard questions… it just means I have to look hard for the answers.
Val
Haven't posted to you before but read what you write to others and you are full of good wisdom.
Happy B-day! (belated)
The thing is. Recognizing significant dates is difficult for them.
It is anethema (sp?) to what they believe right now.
If we try to recognize it...it feels like pressure to them.
Best to just celebrate yourself. Fill the void of their not having recognized it. Or your desire of how nice it would be if they did.
Then you begin to be free of that...
Be well.
Thanks Gritter. I read your feedback to others as well.
I'm sure it was very difficult for w. I can't read my w's mind or her intentions, but her action.. was a nice gesture. I was definitely reacting yesterday at first, but today I can just be happy with that.
Baby steps to freedom...
I appreciate you stopping by my thread. Thank you!
Brief Journal,
Sent email to pastor asking if he was available to mediate between w and I the first week of October. I still don't feel ready to deal with this.. but I can't run from it either. She has been patient with my work schedule. I should at least push myself a little bit and show her the same courtesy. If I'm still not suppose to meet up with her I know God will take care of it. If I am, he will take care of me.
My GALing the Sh!t out of this weekend consists of working on a music video. Song is pretty cool and the folks seem great. Working 12 straight, 14 hour, days will be exhausting.. maybe I will sleep more than 5 hrs a night.
Extra cash will be nice too. I might as well act like a squirrel storing nutz for the winter. You never know what the future holds.
Valeska I admire you so much, you have no idea.
Your discussion with your friend reminds me a lot of how I feel on most days.
My world should be coming apart, but instead I feel more blessed and loved than ever. It's situations like this where you find out who your friends are.
i hope you CAN sleep more than 5 hours. Enjoy the work and enjoy the rest! Have a great weekend.
Thank you all for the birthday wishes and support!
Overall - My Birthday went well
Saturday - I was picked up and driven to paintball. I was completely taken care of. We played at multiple courses. I was shot first in my pinkie, followed by a bunch in my face (Thankfully I wore a mask). Towards the end, we were all on the same team.. labeled "Val's bada$$es". It was awesome!
I'm definitely consulting you for my next birthday...dang girl...
From there we went to lunch at a small little diner. I remember looking at the table and thinking "all these friends have been with me through this sh!t! I couldn't have asked for a better group of people"
Later I threw a party. About 25 people came. A g/f came over to do my hair and make-up. I danced my a$$ off. It was great.
WHAT A HEALTHY HAPPY THING TO DO!!! Yay you!
Missed my w very little that day.
Lots of Love followed at church on Sunday.. and a hang over. Posted my pics on FB, 5 minutes later… my w unmarried us. Still kept me on as a friend though. Guess god answered that prayer.. at least for now.
um, well, whatever...I mean I guess there's a great reply to that act of hers - but it escapes me at the moment...
Yesterday was probably one of the most stressful days at set however I was joyous and very upbeat. I mentioned how I cried in the morning, but I prayed hard that God remind me of the love in my life and he provided. None stop love from the crew, followed by tons of emails and post. I was swamped with it. I missed my w.. but even she too wished me happy b-day. Got off that emotional rollercoaster pretty fast.
Went out or beers with my bestie after work and we talked about the year. What was amazing was how much positivity came out of my mouth. I'm getting a divorce. I lost my best friend and the woman that I can honestly say, loved more than anyone. I should have said that this year sucked…
But instead.. I am building deeper relationship with friends. Work has improved tremendously.
My r with my w might be over, but I spent 6 months putting in every effort to save my m. Really trying to understand her perspective, fears, wants.. and put mine aside. To give love with out expectations (I know I still struggle with them). To work on stuff that bothered her (needy, controlling, negative). I lost the battle, but I can say that I didn't lose the war. I don't regret a thing.
I have grown so much in the past year. I feel more positive and more loving. My anger still comes up, but it doesn't consume me. I am happier. I look forward to pushing my growth further.
My bestie's response… "Yeah.. I definitely see that in you now. You've really changed in the past year."
so much in this to respond to I chose instead to just highlight some b/c YOU GET IT...and I love that about you. What a frickin' fast learner you are when the chips are down...
Came home to a card from MIL. She wished me the best and said thanked me for taking care of her daughter while we were together. She told me to remember the good times w and I shared, and not get stuck in the bad stuff. It was signed from her and "Gram X". I cried. I loved w's gram. She treated me like a granddaughter.
I'm thinking about writing MIL a response back. First to say thanks, and then to say what's on my mind. Her and w have a crappy relationship.. I know they both want one, but are stuck in so much fear to move forward. I know it's not my place, but now that my own mother is sick and my limited time with her is becoming more apparent, I want to say something about not allowing fear to paralyze them. I will think on it .. maybe post here about it.
Do post here about it in ase your w could be offended/pressured freaked or whatever... IF that matters to you.
Your insight about whats really important NOW when time with your own mom is limited --is something to share with mil for sure.
It means you have Perspective, and gives the context of your contact.
Like you have NO expectations of w or a reaction, for example BUT you know life is short.
Spent the rest of the night thanking the 80 people that wished me happy birthday on FB That took a little bit of time but if they took the time to write "HB".. I could take the time to write "thx". Plus alot of the posts were super loving. Just another reminder of how much Love my birthday was full of.
Beautiful...
Responded to w as well. "Thanks for the email. I appreciate you thinking of me today!"
And that my friends was my 1st birthday w/o my w in a long time. Fully of sadness and joy, disappointment and love, expectations - both good and bad.
P.S. Aeo, JS, and Tele.. been really thinking about what you said. I can't seem to post anything about it as I am on my own emotional rollercoaster right now. Trying to figure out the truth, my wants, my boundaries. Thank you for posing the hard questions… it just means I have to look hard for the answers.
You have done a lot of deep brave work. That's why your results are apparent and profound.
Keep it up! Well done.ps Happy belated Bday...
Valeska I admire you so much, you have no idea.
Your discussion with your friend reminds me a lot of how I feel on most days.
My world should be coming apart, but instead I feel more blessed and loved than ever. It's situations like this where you find out who your friends are.Aww thanks DG! I'm glad you feel bless and loved! Your right about finding out who your friends are in times like these.
@IS - I did sleep more than 5 hrs. I slept 12 hours today. Off and on.. but it was still great!
Later I threw a party. About 25 people came. A g/f came over to do my hair and make-up. I danced my a$$ off. It was great.
WHAT A HEALTHY HAPPY THING TO DO!!! Yay you!
25 - I remember your story about going overseas on your anniversary and how healthy it was for you and a wake up call for h. It sparked my thought process for my bday so thank you! It didn't spark anything with W but I'm ok with that.
Posted my pics on FB, 5 minutes later… my w unmarried us. Still kept me on as a friend though. Guess god answered that prayer.. at least for now.
um, well, whatever...I mean I guess there's a great reply to that act of hers - but it escapes me at the moment...[/color]
Yeah. Throwing a party is a complete 180 to who my wife thinks I am. There have been moments when she has admitted that she thinks she held me back. That she kept me from having friends, and a life.
In some ways it was probably a smack in her face and for that I am sorry. I wish stuff that I did for myself didn't hurt her. However at the same time, she HAS contributed to my feeling worthless. I have to start building that back up.
So I don't know if that was a reaction from her or just a CRAZY concidence. I said that God answered a prayer because FB stresses me out. lol. Been fighting myself with expectations that her keeping her status = hope as well as my lack of strength to set some boundaries. God took care of it for me.
I'm thinking about writing MIL a response back. First to say thanks, and then to say what's on my mind. Her and w have a crappy relationship.. I know they both want one, but are stuck in so much fear to move forward. I know it's not my place, but now that my own mother is sick and my limited time with her is becoming more apparent, I want to say something about not allowing fear to paralyze them. I will think on it .. maybe post here about it.
[/b]
Do post here about it in ase your w could be offended/pressured freaked or whatever... IF that matters to you.
It matters and I will post here. An awesome writer I am not.
You have done a lot of deep brave work. That's why your results are apparent and profound.
Keep it up! Well done.ps Happy belated Bday...
Thank you!
Val, you are familiar enough with my sitch to know my W defriended our daughter after our daughter befriended me. IMO this action was an attempt to manipulate, and an example of conditional love.
Your W felt what she felt and reacted the way she reacted to your posted pics not b/c of your post, rather b/c of her own issues. This is her work to be done by her, her tasks to accomplish.
When we walk on eggshells to keep from causing them pain we do them a disservice and permit control of ourselves. I know you know this as do I and still we pragmatically avoid p1ssing them off, until quite by accident we do.
There is this Dr Seuss quote: “Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don’t matter and those who matter don’t mind” I try to keep in mind. While I am picking my battles and terrain.
val, still following you. Still here with you in spirit. You're inspirational. Keep on keeping on girl!!! (((Hugs))) Wish we could have a beer together!
LOL
If there is a meeting to comiserate over a beer or two count me in. I imagine we could pull enough people together to get a group rate.
Yes a beer get together would be good.. although it is only 11a here.
September has been an extremely rough month for me. I have cried probably more so this month than in April when I first separated. I have very much been grieving my w. 2 months since we have seen each other, almost 6 since we have really spoken. The death of my m has been very hard to accept this month.
I know God has given me this time to work through these feelings. It has almost 3 months since d-bomb (2 months since the hickey fight) and God has protected me thus far. There is much work I need to do on myself and I have been firm in my faith that he will not put something in front of me until he feels I am ready.
However it seems that its time now. My w, my pastor, and my schedule have opened up to have our first mediation meeting next week. This morning I was offered another job to start next week and I breathed a sigh of relief. But immediately it went away.. I guess God thinks I'm ready.
I plan on doing alot of posting here over the next couple of days. Hopefully I will answer alot of questions posed by Aeo, JS, and TM. My hope is that I can work through some of my demons before next week.. cause honestly I am scared sh!tless.
I don't feel strong enough. I don't feel ready. I suppose none of us ever do completely.
Having faith that I will be alright is hard for me. I'm used to taking care of things on my own, being strong enough to handle it on my own.
If there is anything I have learned throughout this process is that I can't. If I had tried, I would be having a nervous breakdown.
I never thought this separation would bring so much of my past and inner demons to the surface. At times it is too much to bare. At times it consumes my thoughts and stops me from working, enjoying life.
I have had many conversations with God recently saying "Really? All this had to happen so I could become a better Val? I mean couldn't you have just said "Hey.. it's time you deal with your sh!t. It's time you become the woman I've wanted you to be all along!". Did I have to lose my m, my w, do I have to accept my mom & sister being sick? Did all this pain need to be in my life.. so I could grow??".
The short answer is.. YES.
I'm reading "The Shack". I cry all the way through it. It reminds me that God does not use pain or evil to change people. he just allows it to happen.. so he can come in and show his unconditional love for us.
Enough rambling for now. I'm getting a little too spiritual for myself.
although it is only 11a here.
A lot of beers are brewed with cereals. I see no problem here.
My hope is that I can work through some of my demons before next week.. cause honestly I am scared sh!tless.
What does that fear feel like?
If there is anything I have learned throughout this process is that I can't. If I had tried, I would be having a nervous breakdown.
It sounds like you feel a lot of gratitude for the support you have received.
What does it look like for you to know that you will be alright?
Does believing you will be alright in any way scare you?
Did all this pain need to be in my life.. so I could grow?
What would it be like if you had chosen not to grow in the face of this experience?
Familiar with the idea of samsara?
Lots of compassion directed your way - hold on to the woman you have become and are becoming.
Asset list is complete. Email drafted. Hitting send.. that's another story.
JS - you talk about walking on eggshells only to know that they eggs will break anyway.
That's how I feel now.
It's hard to send this list. It's more extensive than hers. It clearly defines that she has more than me. There are alot of hot topics.
I wish I could compose an email saying "this is just a guide, just because I put things like 401k on the list.. doesn't mean I want it".
But there I go again, putting her feelings ahead of mine. Trying to manipulate the situation so I don't get "in trouble".
I spend 9 yrs trying to convince this woman that I love her and would not hurt her. I spent 9 yrs not sticking up for myself so I wouldn't get punished or get the cold treatment. I did my best to protect her from others and herself. In some ways, I was w's little whipping boy.
But in being the whipping boy, I no longer know how to love myself. It feels very unnatural to think of me before her. It feels unnatural that loving myself does NOT mean that I have stopped loving her.
Another 180 that will be healthy for me, but pushes me further away from w.
This blows.. just sayin..
What does that fear feel like?
It can play out lots of ways. Forgive me if this is stinking thinking.. I'm just basing it off of actions.
It all begins...
I show up in my purple dress that I have been saving for this meeting. Hair done, make-up on. I look pretty. My w makes some comment about my physical appearance. She doesn't like the blonde or thinks I'm too skinny.. etc. She may even say I look nice - regardless it's just a dig at me.
We begin talking about our assets. Her demeanor is cold. She is very matter of fact. There is no hint that she ever loved me or cares about my feelings anymore.
When I mention that I am entitled to half, her anger rises. Our marital problems come to the foreground. Of course it's the same sh!t just now cloaked by the D. I wish that we could work it out.. if she's angry.. than I'm all ears, full of validation and empathy. Her response.. it doesn't matter now. We are over.
It takes two to work on these things. She has no desire to do that. She has made it clear in her actions and her words. She just doesn't want to deal with me.
As things get heated, I start backpeddling. My w, knowing how to manipulate the situation and me, says things to gain control of our conversation. Her top two things - That I am acting out of anger or that I don't care. The two things that cut me the most. Because she knows I struggle with my anger and that I love her very much. She knows the thought of hurting her breaks my heart. So I begin to believe these lies. Instead of growing angry or sticking up for myself, I grow fearful. Fear of pissing her off because in the past there are always consequences to my actions. I know that any step I take towards protecting myself leads me farther from w.
I panic and desperately try to stop this from happening. My w is gone, but I still have threads. I hold onto them desperately because I fear her never being in my life again.
As I am doing this, I fail to recognize in the moment that this is our cycle. Me.. trying to manipulate the situation because I know the consequences of my actions and thinking that I am not worth more. Using the excuse that I love her so much that I don't want to hurt her or screw her in anyway, when in actuality I am just hurting and screwing myself.
As the mediation comes to a close and I make it through as best I can.. it's over. My w and I will never talk again. There is nothing I can say or do to reassure her that I never wanted this. That just because I decided to protect and love myself did NOT mean I have ever stopped loving her. She will find any excuse to stay out of my life. From her own guilt, to making excuses that it's not fair to me. Unless God does some major work in her, this will be the end to our story.How does that sound for fear??
Am heading out to clear my head a bit Aeo. I honestly don't know if I have answers to the other questions posed.
"So when I say I plan to keep fighting for the rest of my life, I don't mean for my marriage. I mean for me."
This is you, V. The real you. You have shown enormous growth and strength through your situation. You can steer yourself through mediation or any other situation now. Old V is gone.
I found these two quotes which I will share:
Courage is being afraid but going on anyhow. ~Dan Rather
Courage is doing what you're afraid to do. There can be no courage unless you're scared. ~Edward Vernon Rickenbacker
I'm in for the beer thing and I don't even drink
peace to you val. U are in my thoughts!
Val,
Thank you for sharing that - it is very personal stuff and I'm sure putting out here (even an anonymous forum) is a move of bravery on your part.
Stinking thinking -- we can't change what we can't recognize.. no apologies needed from you!
Since I've inundated you with lots of questions, I'm going to do my best not ask more for the time being.
I would highly suggest that you think about who you are and who you want to be. I have followed your progress since you came on here, and it's been remarkable. Might not hurt to think about that progress somewhat, and the strength and courage its taken you to get to that point.
Sometimes we take our own accomplishments for granted, while loudly applauding the work of others.
If you feel like empathy or validation is going to lead down that road - then don't use empathy or validation. I think there is such a thing as too much of both of those.
Maybe you've mapped her out well enough to know how she is going to respond, so be ready for that. You are 100% capable of handling this, and not taking anything she says personally.
When you try to define another person, you define yourself.
^^^^^^^ What your W says to you and about you speaks for her and her character. Don't let it inside you. Not out of fear, but out of love. Love for yourself. Love for the best in who you are.
Some ideas about the panicking and other stuff:
1) Spend some time really exploring the feeling of your fear. Try to get rid of all the stories that you tell yourself about it, and just attend to the actual feelings you have. Get real curious about it. Make friends with it.
2) Strategize ahead of time how it's going to go down. This is a legal matter, not a personal one. Write it down every day: "If x Then y" where X is something that happens and y is how you are going to handle it.
Planning when, where, and how you are going handle something ahead of time increases your odds of success for a lot of reason. A lot of which work in your unconscious and will be very reliable.
3) Get yourself psyched up. Come up with some realistic affirmations about the wonderful Val that we've all come to know on here, and look yourself in the mirror every day and say them out loud. If you get to the point where you are smiling and laughing, even better.
4) Know that whatever the outcome, you will be alright.
Courage is being afraid but going on anyhow. ~Dan Rather
Courage is doing what you're afraid to do. There can be no courage unless you're scared. ~Edward Vernon Rickenbacker
Thanks TM. I will do my best to remember this when I walk into that room next week.
Since I've inundated you with lots of questions, I'm going to do my best not ask more for the time being.
Aeo, I like the questions posed. I mean I knew I was fearful, but being able to answer that questions specifically.. brought specifics to the foreground. So thank you.
What does it look like for you to know that you will be alright?
I think the day that I can get up and w doesn't consume me. That I'm not dealing with all this pain, constantly battling my CoDe issues with her as well as the wounds caused by the EA.
Waking up not sick, sleeping more than 5 hours
Loving myself.. truly loving myself.
Enjoying my life w/o the sting that w is not there. Enjoying my life w/o the sting that my w did alot to make me feel worthless.
Getting a text, email, or whatever from w and not feel like my heart is going to explode out of my chest.
Getting a nice text, email, or whatever and not tricking myself into believing that she cares more than she does.
Accepting that w is a sick woman who has many issues, and that does not reflect on me.
That I will not be sucked into this toxic cycle that her and I have created.
That I will FINALLY believe that this beautiful, loving, woman that I see in w is NOT HER. It never was. She could have moments of that, but she's broken. It doesn't mean that she can't be fixed.. only that she isn't now.
Does believing you will be alright in any way scare you?
Absolutely it does.. because the only way I can achieve any of above is to "Let Go" and I just struggle with that SOOO badly.
I feel that if I let her go, she will never return.
I feel that if I let her go, she will think I never loved her.
I feel that if I let her go, I am being selfish.
I feel that if I let her go, I am doing what she did to me.
Letting go is something abused people struggle with. It is something that CoDe struggle with this. I know this. It's not like I can't see how healthy this would be for me. It's not like I can't see that she is already gone. But thus far.. it has all been by her doing.
This would be my CHOICE. It would be retraining my thoughts. It would take away her importance in my life.. well actually it would just emphasize my importance in my life.
There is just this little voice in the back of my head. "If you let go.. be prepared to lose her for good."
That's why DBing is soo hard for me. Nothing I do brings w closer to me. My 180's help in life, but not in r.
And the answer to that little voice in the back of my head should be "but I've already lost her."
Wow, Val - do you bring this kind of insight and openness to your everyday life?
I'm touched by your awareness of your processes and I think it speaks to something very good and sensitive inside of you.
I think that a lot of what you are feeling is part of the grieving process - how is that for you? What is it like for you to grieve and experience that kind of pain?
Is it different for you, than the pain of being hurt by another person?
Also - have you thought about grieving the loss of the 'old val'?
What does it mean for 'old val' to die and 'new val' to more fully live? Would you like yourself more? Would you respect yourself more? Do you think that it would allow people to truly know you?
I'm definitely projecting here, but I think it has merit so I'll put it out there anyhow.. the idea that in order to grow, we need to let go of where we once were in terms of our 'self'. The ropes we once gripped to raise ourselves up.. they become the tethers that now hold us down.
This quote may be meaningful to you:
Only to the extent that we expose ourselves over and over to annihilation can that which is indestructible be found in us...I wonder if that is part of the process - you feel that you were in a Co-dependent relationship and I wonder if for you, part of that is the feeling of getting your identity from your W. Perhaps rather than seeing your experience through a window of pathology you might look at it in terms of how you and your W co-constructed your relationship to accommodate each other in avoiding self-confrontation in various ways.
Maybe at that time it was easier to receive your sense of self from her, and probably her from you. And this created a system where it only made sense that you would have the feelings you mention experiencing at this time -- the ones that you feel you would not experience if you were 'alright'.
Her response and behavior towards you, if it defined your sense of who you were, would only naturally be something that would make you feel unstable. It takes your ego and puts it in someone else's hands. So it makes a lot of sense you would respond in the ways you described. And yes, developing your 'self' does mean, to an extent choosing YOU. But only in a way that makes you more capable of fully loving another person.
A lot of what you describe are very fight/flight responses and those become entrained in you - there is an excellent article on Psychology Today's website called "Pet The Lizard" by Rick Hanson - he explains very clearly how this stuff works and what you can do to consciously address it. I know you're crazy busy, but it might be worth looking at. As real as your experiences and feelings are - much of it can also be habitual.
This would be my CHOICE. It would be retraining my thoughts. It would take away her importance in my life.. well actually it would just emphasize my importance in my life.
There is just this little voice in the back of my head. "If you let go.. be prepared to lose her for good."
I understand this so well, Val. And I know the fear you feel. After I hit rock bottom, when I learned to really relax, I feared that it meant I didn't care about my W anymore. Learning to relax made me anxious! My feelings and experience changed and I wasn't comfortable with 'what it meant' because it was new and a little unsettling.
The truth is - it means what we make it mean. And so if you want it to mean that you are 'taking away' her importance, it will. If you choose to think of it as 'taking the pressure off of her', it will. There are a lot of very valid ways to reframe it and look at it.
I wonder if you might think about the idea of how letting go is part of letting 'old val' die so 'new val' can thrive? What does it mean for you to do that, and what might it mean for your capacity to love and truly be known by another person?
How might this improve your relationship? Without digging into whether or not it means you may lose your W for good, what possibilities might it open up for you in terms of your personal experience in living and loving?
Yes Aeo.. I do tend to talk with much openness and insight. More so now in the past 11 months. I think that has alot to do with now having safe environments.. with my friends and family. I find this board very safe which is probably why I talk about things so deeply.
Yes I am definitely grieving and it is extremely painful. Other than my dad leaving (in which I chose to be soo angry I didn't feel anything) I've never really experienced loss. I guess this is what one feels when you decide to not run away from your feelings.
I haven't really given much thought to grieving the 'old val'.
because when I think about the old Val.. it makes me angry.. at myself and at w.
I hate the fact that she (old val) was so negative. That she didn't enjoy life. That she felt she was "right" because being right meant she didn't have to work on herself.
She was very selfish. Not so much in her m but towards other people. She only invested in certain people instead of showing grace and love to everyone. She thought love had to be earned instead of just giving it w/o expectations.
I hate the fact that she had no self-esteem. That she allowed someone to rob her of her self-worth. That she soo desperately seeks love from someone who can't give it.
I hate that my w help create this person. I hate that my w still tries (although not purposefully) to keep old val alive.. the same way I do.
In alot of ways I'm glad to see the old val go. Changes such as self-esteem, being positive, showing love has been a long time in the works, but it's nice to finally see it having a positive impact on my life.
The parts of the Old Val that hang on now are much harder to get rid of.
I've been hanging out my with my friends and pastor. I just needed to be surrounded by love this week. I can sit there and say that my w and I shouldn't really be together.
I need to learn to love myself and not have my self-worth dependent on her opinion of me.
How I don't need to be with someone who put me down so much that I believed her. I'd rather make excuses for her that she had a rough childhood and had no self-worth.. as if it made it right that she projected her lack of love and self worth on me.
I see it.. but the old val hangs on. Whispering in my ear not to give up because I can change and so can my w. Twisting truths into false hopes that I believe so I don't drop the rope - in turn letting go of both her and my w. Whispering - "If you can both change.. you stand a chance"
And that MAY be true.. one day.. but right now it's not. So holding on to something that doesn't currently exist is because I am scared. Fearful of losing the woman who has been so close to my heart.. Not my w - Old Val.
Val, truly changing ourselves is one of the hardest things we will ever do. It requires stripping away all of the preconceptions, defense mechanisms, and walls we have built. Over the years we have become comfortable behind these. This place has become safe.
Then along comes a trauma forcing us to adapt. We’ve got to change to live again. We could stay the same and survive. To live we must change.
As you posted fear of change holds us back. Hope that circumstances we cannot control will evolve enough to return us to where we were holds us back. You’ve recognize how this is false.
We must motivate ourselves to change, to live, to transform. It is a slow process, as real change happens slowly. Epiphanies happen and show us a direction, but the journey to arrive there requires time, effort, and motivation. It is often a slow walk.
What we use to motivate ourselves to change must overcome these false hopes and fear of change. I no longer visualize futures that include STBX. It helps me leave behind that false hope. Having future life goals mapped out permits us to put some of the pedestrian steps we are going through in perspective.
Mediation is one step along the path. It is not the end. To paraphrase Sir Winston Churchill “It is perhaps but the beginning of the end”. As a step the direction taken following it determines the direction of your path.
Step toward your goals.
“It is perhaps but the end of the beginning”......D@mm Edit Button
V:
Thank you for sharing your fears. When I read your recent posts, I thought, "OMG, that's exactly how I feel". It helped me a great deal. Namely being able to see what I've been struggling with expressed so beautifully and also reassuring to know that I am not alone. Again much thanks.
You'll be in my thoughts this week before your mediation. Be strong, breathe in and out, you've grown so much...you'll be okay.
It's like summer this weekend in SoCal...try to get out and enjoy the weekend.
Thank you JS. I know it's not the end for me. I know it's a step that I must take. As for the slow changes.. I'm trying to make that ok. I've always been a fast paced girl.
@ WAW - Yes it was summer in LA and I GALed the Sh!t out of my weekend. I'm glad you are finding my thread helpful to your own sitch. I'll catch up on it so we can perhaps continue to help each other.
Journaling - Tomorrow is the big day. I've spent much of this week in tears. Tears of mostly anger and hurt. I've desperately avoided those feelings over the past 5 months out of fear that I would never return from them. This week I have been trusting God, myself, and my personal growth to allow those feelings to wash over me. To accept them and realize that they are okay to have. Just because I have them doesn't mean I will let them consume me. I know my heart is changing.
I've taken Aeo's advice and have tried to think of as many scenarios that my w will present. There are three outcomes that I think could happen.
1. She will be extremely cold to me.
2. When I start talking about the assets, she will grow extremely angry.
3. She will be pleasant and really think about splitting things fairly. She will be understanding that I do deserve 50%.
I have #3 on the table because I do believe God can change people's hearts. I just for some reason don't think it's going to happen... because I have not received any actions from w taking my feelings into consideration at all. If she would do #3, I feel it would just be so she could move on faster. I feel that if she did #3, it would be for selfish reasons.
Regardless of whichever w chooses, my response needs to be the same "It does not reflect on me and my self worth".
Walking in tomorrow knowing that my w will lose alot in our D is very hard for me. Although I realize that these are the consequences to her actions I've always done my best to protect her. I have sacrificed my self worth, my feelings, in all because I thought I was "loving her".
Tomorrow I will still love her, but I will also love myself. I'm not sure how to convey that to her. That by loving us equally, and splitting our assets equally, she will lose alot... but it does not change my hopes for us or my feelings for her. I hope God provides me with the right words. I hope he provides me the strength should those words fall on deaf ears.
I really hope there is no small talk tomorrow. It's just not healthy for me. I wish I could be healthier and handle it as just that.. but I can't. It hurts.
It hurts that we are still FB friends. It hurts that she will call me out of the blue and then retract for weeks. It hurts that she sends me a generic birthday wish. What's next - A Christmas card or a comment on my FB 3 months down the line. I realize that she is 2% in my life, 98% not.. but until I can see that 98% as being okay.. I should probably eliminate the 2%.
I am trying to find a loving way to say this. One that says I have not locked the door and that I care about her deeply, but her being in my life w/o being in my life is not okay for me. When/If she decides to make a commitment to invest in my life as someone she truly cares about, I will be there. Until then, I prefer she leave me alone.
I don't want it to come off as angry and probably something that I will not say tomorrow.. but it weighs on my heart heavily.
I just kinda feel like I am worth it. I'm worth investing time into. I feel like she never fully invested into me. Whether that is she actually didn't care, or she was afraid or whatever. Whatever her reasons are valid and hers alone, but does not excuse the hurt she has caused, nor does it excuse her not being able to fully commit or let go.
If I read this above in another sitch, I would encourage them to accept those feelings and not use them as an excuse to do any action.. but all I can think at the moment is that If I don't start seeing it in that way.. I may never move on.
Val, I am sorry you are hurting. I think many of the people on this board grieve together to some extent. Know that this will not last forever. To get beyond the anger and hurt the feelings must be experienced. It is good you have allowed yourself to feel.
Preparing for different anticipated scenarios is how I cope with the stress of an unknown. Rarely has all of my preparation been in vain. Just as rarely has my preparation been 100%. The situation will change, be prepared to adapt, and be confident you have done all you can.
Regardless of whichever w chooses, my response needs to be the same "It does not reflect on me and my self worth".
That is absolutely right this does not define Val!
Do not worry about the right words. Speak and Act with integrity within your personal sense of honor, and the “right” words will come.
I know it is hard to drop that rope. It is painful when we are not ready. Your pain is palpable through this and several other recent posts. It is ok. The rope will fall when you are ready. I cannot point to the moment mine fell. It crept up upon me. There is a peace that accompanies it.
I copied something from thatgirl007 sometime ago and modified it to fit my sitch. Perhaps it can help you also.
“I do still love her but not more than I love myself. Despite all of the good times, our history and the vows we made to each other, she is not good for me - and I do not love myself as much when I am with her, because she doesn't love me the way that a husband should really be loved. It makes me sad that I do not believe in her ability to love me the way that I deserve and I do not believe in her ability to maintain a healthy marriage.”
I could not bring myself to think of moving on, so I think of moving forward.
I’ll keep you in my thoughts and prayers tomorrow. Use your mediator he's there to make progress. You’ll get through tomorrow. Be prepared to take a few days to process the emotions of it.
So, this is it? Not necessarily Val...
it's just a step towards property division and that is simply a step towards divorce. This "ends" nothing important or lasting if you don't want it to.
Thank you JS. I know it's not the end for me. I know it's a step that I must take. As for the slow changes.. I'm trying to make that ok. I've always been a fast paced girl.
You sure have been fast paced...I recall seeing your 1st post here and all I can say is you are absolutely a fast learner, but part of the reason you've grown with such alacrity is your courage.
--- This week I have been trusting God, myself, and my personal growth to allow those feelings to wash over me. To accept them and realize that they are okay to have. Just because I have them doesn't mean I will let them consume me.
^^great line
I've taken Aeo's advice and have tried to think of as many scenarios that my w will present. There are three outcomes that I think could happen.
1. She will be extremely cold to me.
2. When I start talking about the assets, she will grow extremely angry.
3. She will be pleasant and really think about splitting things fairly. She will be understanding that I do deserve 50%.
I have #3 on the table because I do believe God can change people's hearts.
He can. So if she does #3 OR eventually comes around to that option, don't assume the worst of her or dismiss postives...Maybe her heart did change and you need to give God some credit!
I just for some reason don't think it's going to happen... because I have not received any actions from w taking my feelings into consideration at all. If she would do #3, I feel it would just be so she could move on faster. I feel that if she did #3, it would be for selfish reasons.
why believe the worst of her in the face of good deeds? Why deny God his works revealed? see above...
is it b/c you fear seeing a loving action from her and the confusion that might ensue? if you were anyone else, I'd say you prefer anger but you are you. So I ask...and of course she may Not choose door number 3 but let's not assume the worst of her anyhow. What good does that do?
Regardless of whichever w chooses, my response needs to be the same "It does not reflect on me and my self worth".
^^^100% correct!
Walking in tomorrow knowing that my w will lose alot in our D is very hard for me. Although I realize that these are the consequences to her actions I've always done my best to protect her. I have sacrificed my self worth, my feelings, in all because I thought I was "loving her".
Val, you often said you both had issues and there are mutual aspects to this. Don't revise so much that you are a victim, OR that she is a monster OR that either of you must play either role. You are better than that.
you were together a long time considering the tools you both lacked. Now, YOU have more tools and insight and so YOU will love better and more wisely...
and who knows what she will do? She's not in your "jurisdiction", or "state". You are in charge of yours' and she is of hers. Keep the borders clear.
Tomorrow I will still love her, but I will also love myself. I'm not sure how to convey that to her.
this^^ does Not have to be conveyed on this day. Dividing assets is not usually when couples reflect on their r's or their growth or their love for each other. Just stay calm and
avoid ANY signs of anger for in her eyes they'll be magnified...exude Buddha like calmness...and worry about conveying your love some other time.
Don't confuse todays mission...
That by loving us equally,--- I hope God provides me with the right words. I hope he provides me the strength should those words fall on deaf ears.
lovely sentiments. Know that you can talk to her another day too Val...a better day.
I really hope there is no small talk tomorrow. It's just not healthy for me. I wish I could be healthier and handle it as just that.. but I can't. It hurts.
---- I realize that she is 2% in my life, 98% not.. but until I can see that 98% as being okay.. I should probably eliminate the 2%.
I am trying to find a loving way to say this. One that says I have not locked the door and that I care about her deeply, but her being in my life w/o being in my life is not okay for me. When/If she decides to make a commitment to invest in my life as someone she truly cares about, I will be there. Until then, I prefer she leave me alone.
Val, realistically a recon would occur after some probing motions. So, in a way you can't have all or nothing b/c it'll be nothing and it's tough to go from that to all.
Something in between would likely be needed or...what? No contact at all and then suddenly she'd know AND you'd know that it's the right time to reconcile?
You'd have to get to know each other all over again anyhow...you both are changing no doubt. So...be careful what you wish for.
And please don't see this day as the "Resolve ALL issues" day...b/c this IS a process.
let it happen in STEPS...
Today's step is a property dividing step, a legal/financial one.
As you said, She is going to lose a lot and that would sting the best of us...so That's enough to process for now, don't you think? I'm betting it is for her.
I don't want it to come off as angry and probably something that I will not say tomorrow.. but it weighs on my heart heavily.
understood...
I just kinda feel like I am worth it. I'm worth investing time into. I feel like she never fully invested into me.
You are worth it...BUT then you devolved into "stinkin' thinkin' " with the "She never loved me or "fully invested into me" stuff....don't go there. You were/are in charge of investing in YOU...and
You were m to a woman and she to you. That takes some guts and some LOVE to do...you loved each other and I'm sure there is still love remaining there too...
Don't diminish what was b/c it is no longer, or it has taken a new form.
Whether that is she actually didn't care, or she was afraid or whatever. Whatever her reasons are valid and hers alone, but does not excuse the hurt she has caused, nor does it excuse her not being able to fully commit or let go.
Val...where are you going with this? IDK what it means...but I know you are hurt...okay, vent away...
If I read this above in another sitch, I would encourage them to accept those feelings and not use them as an excuse to do any action.. but all I can think at the moment is that If I don't start seeing it in that way.. I may never move on.
when you can, explain this^^^....when you can.
For now, take a breath, trust that God will strengthen you to face whatever comes, for He will...and
know that you have LESS to lose than she does...let that empower you in a loving way - so you feel safe.
((( )))
So, this is it? Not necessarily Val...
it's just a step towards property division and that is simply a step towards divorce.
This "ends" nothing important or lasting if you don't want it to.I don't know what you mean by this? Can you explain?Thank you JS. I know it's not the end for me. I know it's a step that I must take. As for the slow changes.. I'm trying to make that ok. I've always been a fast paced girl.
You sure have been fast paced...I recall seeing your 1st post here and all I can say is you are absolutely a fast learner, but part of the reason you've grown with such alacrity is your courage.
Thank you. That means alot because I feel like a chickensh!t in alot of ways recently.
--- This week I have been trusting God, myself, and my personal growth to allow those feelings to wash over me. To accept them and realize that they are okay to have. Just because I have them doesn't mean I will let them consume me.
^^great line
I've taken Aeo's advice and have tried to think of as many scenarios that my w will present. There are three outcomes that I think could happen.
1. She will be extremely cold to me.
2. When I start talking about the assets, she will grow extremely angry.
3. She will be pleasant and really think about splitting things fairly. She will be understanding that I do deserve 50%.
I have #3 on the table because I do believe God can change people's hearts.
He can. So if she does #3 OR eventually comes around to that option, don't assume the worst of her or dismiss postives...Maybe her heart did change and you need to give God some credit!
Yes I should. Thank you for the reminder.
I just for some reason don't think it's going to happen... because I have not received any actions from w taking my feelings into consideration at all. If she would do #3, I feel it would just be so she could move on faster. I feel that if she did #3, it would be for selfish reasons.
why believe the worst of her in the face of good deeds? Why deny God his works revealed? see above...
is it b/c you fear seeing a loving action from her and the confusion that might ensue? if you were anyone else, I'd say you prefer anger but you are you. So I ask...and of course she may Not choose door number 3 but let's not assume the worst of her anyhow. What good does that do?
YES!! I fear it.. so much.. because I believe her good deeds so easily and then she does something that hurts and I am disappointed. Assuming the worst is because I have a hard time stopping myself from hoping for the best. I don't know how to get to a place where I'm in the middle.
Regardless of whichever w chooses, my response needs to be the same "It does not reflect on me and my self worth".
^^^100% correct!
Walking in tomorrow knowing that my w will lose alot in our D is very hard for me. Although I realize that these are the consequences to her actions I've always done my best to protect her. I have sacrificed my self worth, my feelings, in all because I thought I was "loving her".
Val, you often said you both had issues and there are mutual aspects to this. Don't revise so much that you are a victim, OR that she is a monster OR that either of you must play either role. You are better than that.
you were together a long time considering the tools you both lacked. Now, YOU have more tools and insight and so YOU will love better and more wisely...
and who knows what she will do? She's not in your "jurisdiction", or "state". You are in charge of yours' and she is of hers. Keep the borders clear.
Ok. I will try. I'm not trying to re-write history but I don't know what to do with things I am discovering about myself. Things like my wife said I was socially awkward or didn't like to try new things. Neither of those are true. I feel like I easily jump to blame myself vs. seeing her part. Now I'm trying to see her part in this as well but I can see how that very easily can turn Val into the victim and W into the monster. Something I need to work on so I don't put us in those categories.
Tomorrow I will still love her, but I will also love myself. I'm not sure how to convey that to her.
this^^ does Not have to be conveyed on this day. Dividing assets is not usually when couples reflect on their r's or their growth or their love for each other. Just stay calm and
avoid ANY signs of anger for in her eyes they'll be magnified...exude Buddha like calmness...and worry about conveying your love some other time.
Don't confuse todays mission...
That by loving us equally,--- I hope God provides me with the right words. I hope he provides me the strength should those words fall on deaf ears.
lovely sentiments. Know that you can talk to her another day too Val...a better day.
It just doesn't feel like another day will happen. I will keep it to business but it seems like she is in high gear to push this D through. I get the feeling that once this is over, she won't talk to me again. We'll never really talk about m or have any kind of relationship again. She says she just rather move on than deal with me. I believe her.. and it scares me.. I guess because there is so much still left unsaid..
I really hope there is no small talk tomorrow. It's just not healthy for me. I wish I could be healthier and handle it as just that.. but I can't. It hurts.
---- I realize that she is 2% in my life, 98% not.. but until I can see that 98% as being okay.. I should probably eliminate the 2%.
I am trying to find a loving way to say this. One that says I have not locked the door and that I care about her deeply, but her being in my life w/o being in my life is not okay for me. When/If she decides to make a commitment to invest in my life as someone she truly cares about, I will be there. Until then, I prefer she leave me alone.
Val, realistically a recon would occur after some probing motions. So, in a way you can't have all or nothing b/c it'll be nothing and it's tough to go from that to all.
Something in between would likely be needed or...what? No contact at all and then suddenly she'd know AND you'd know that it's the right time to reconcile?
You'd have to get to know each other all over again anyhow...you both are changing no doubt. So...be careful what you wish for.
I don't wish for this at all by any means. I have these feelings but its not a decision I feel at peace about. I don't know if I ever will though. Honestly, I don't know how to get myself to a place where she can probe and it doesn't re-open wounds or I manage my expectations. It doesn't feel like I am running away from trying to do that - It just feels like I am failing at it still - after 6 months! So I want to do something that I know will heal my wounds and yes I know that if I did that.. it would be nothing.
And please don't see this day as the "Resolve ALL issues" day...b/c this IS a process.
let it happen in STEPS...
Today's step is a property dividing step, a legal/financial one.
As you said, She is going to lose a lot and that would sting the best of us...so That's enough to process for now, don't you think? I'm betting it is for her.
[/color]
Yes it will.
I don't want it to come off as angry and probably something that I will not say tomorrow.. but it weighs on my heart heavily.
understood...
I just kinda feel like I am worth it. I'm worth investing time into. I feel like she never fully invested into me.
You are worth it...BUT then you devolved into "stinkin' thinkin' " with the "She never loved me or "fully invested into me" stuff....don't go there. You were/are in charge of investing in YOU...and
You were m to a woman and she to you. That takes some guts and some LOVE to do...you loved each other and I'm sure there is still love remaining there too...
Don't diminish what was b/c it is no longer, or it has taken a new form.
Thanks for that.
Whether that is she actually didn't care, or she was afraid or whatever. Whatever her reasons are valid and hers alone, but does not excuse the hurt she has caused, nor does it excuse her not being able to fully commit or let go.
Val...where are you going with this? IDK what it means...but I know you are hurt...okay, vent away...
Yes. This goes alot deeper. Alot of what she has said in passing and what has happened. I'll journal about it soon.
If I read this above in another sitch, I would encourage them to accept those feelings and not use them as an excuse to do any action.. but all I can think at the moment is that If I don't start seeing it in that way.. I may never move on.
when you can, explain this^^^....when you can. [color:#3366FF]Will do.
For now, take a breath, trust that God will strengthen you to face whatever comes, for He will...and
know that you have LESS to lose than she does...let that empower you in a loving way - so you feel safe.
Ok. Thanks 25!
((( )))[/color]
I know it is hard to drop that rope. It is painful when we are not ready. Your pain is palpable through this and several other recent posts. It is ok. The rope will fall when you are ready. I cannot point to the moment mine fell. It crept up upon me. There is a peace that accompanies it.
Thanks. I just feel the pressure that I should be letting go of the d@mn rope. I'm sure it's partly self-inflicted. I feel that I'll never be ready or that I won't have a peace about it. That it's a more of a "let it go and deal with it" thing. I pray to God to give me peace, but I'm impatient. It doesn't help that my whole world of friends are telling me to let go of the rope, my family is, my wife is.. why shouldn't I?
Because I love her? Because I want to be married to her? So what? Are those good enough reasons? Idk.. anymore. I know I can have those feelings and still let go.. but right now they are too connected for me.
I probably GAL as much as JB. I try to manage my expectations of her. I make an effort to change and be the best Val.. but I'm still holding on the GD rope!! I'm frustrated with myself clearly...
I don't want be someone who is waiting around 10 yrs for a person to come back. I'm afraid that could be me. That I could love w so blindly that I'm not open to reality.
I also feel like in many ways I've waited long enough but I know that is coming from a place of hurt right now. Only time will tell if its true.
“I do still love her but not more than I love myself. Despite all of the good times, our history and the vows we made to each other, she is not good for me - and I do not love myself as much when I am with her, because she doesn't love me the way that a husband should really be loved. It makes me sad that I do not believe in her ability to love me the way that I deserve and I do not believe in her ability to maintain a healthy marriage.”
Well this made me weep like a baby last night. Did it have that effect on you?
I’ll keep you in my thoughts and prayers tomorrow. Use your mediator he's there to make progress. You’ll get through tomorrow. Be prepared to take a few days to process the emotions of it.
Thank you JS! I appreciate you in my life!
I'm sorry you're hurting, Val. ((()))
Thank you E.. especially for the hug.
I'm a HUGE hugger in my non-virtual form.. so virtual hugs mean alot as well.
well....when are we going to know if you're okay??
Sending you good vibes and prayers...
((( )))
mediation isn't until 5:15 PST. Getting ready now.
I will definitely let you know but I am okay now and I will be okay at 7:01 (which is when mediation ends).
Thank you for the prayers and good vibes. Much appreciated!
I was a little worried...
((( )))
V:
Praying that things are going well this afternoon!
Thank you E.. especially for the hug.
I'm a HUGE hugger in my non-virtual form.. so virtual hugs mean alot as well.
You are very welcome. Here is another one. ((()))
Hoping things go well for you today. Sending you lots of virtual support and positive thoughts, Val.
Val, the very last thing I wanted to do was cause you more pain. I sincerely apologize.
I repeat that to myself when I begin to accept all of the responsibility for the demise of the relationship STBX and I had. It reminds me I am worth more love than she is able to give now. It reminds me she has problems she needs to grow from also. That she has responsibilities for this sitch too.
Yes, I wept and still do. I will not allow myself to become paralyzed. I very nearly did. It will not happen.
Post when you’re ready, we will be here. ((()))
Val, just wanted to stop in and let you know I'm praying for you. Big hugs. ((()))
Val, sending loving kindness your way. I hope you can find your peace in this experience.
Val
I'm here too.....well?? We're here....
Val
God watches over all of us LBS. God will make aLlright. Hugs
((((Valeska))) thinking of you.....
Val, the very last thing I wanted to do was cause you more pain. I sincerely apologize.
I repeat that to myself when I begin to accept all of the responsibility for the demise of the relationship STBX and I had. It reminds me I am worth more love than she is able to give now. It reminds me she has problems she needs to grow from also. That she has responsibilities for this sitch too.
Yes, I wept and still do. I will not allow myself to become paralyzed. I very nearly did. It will not happen.
Post when you’re ready, we will be here. ((()))
Aww JS. I'm sorry. I wasn't implying you caused me pain.. just that it opened the flood gates. I'm a cryer by nature. Sometimes not all cries are good, but last night was a good one.
So thank you so much for posting it and everything you post to me. You have been such an important part of my personal growth. I'm glad we are on this journey together.
Disclaimer:
Val is emotional. Nuff said.
First off.. thank you all sooo sooo much for all the support and love. I know we have never met and in most cases never will, but I felt your presence today. Through your prayers, good vibes, thoughts. I was not alone.
Know that God heard them all and he answered.
Woke-up feeling ok. I slept well considering. Spent a good amount of time posting on other threads. I needed for my mindset to change from being consumed with hurt/anger to a more loving place. I find it easier to do that when I encourage other people to love.
Dolled myself up in an awesome purple dress and went to a g/f's house to talk about my gameplan. I cried a bit but we worked through both a financial one and an emotional one. I knew I wasn't prepared to talk about everything today.
Met w outside house. My pastor is our mediator as we don't possess alot of assets so are trying to do this outside of court. I knew that because he truly believes in God's love, he would show her love. That was important to me.
She complemented my dress. I said thank you.
We sat down and it was hard for us to get started. We both admitted we were scared and didn't know what to expect. We couldn't really get started.. so I took the lead.
Back in August when my w freaked about freezing the account, I did an asset list with numbers. That's how I knew my w was going to lose alot in the D.
Showing the numbers and how much w would lose was a surprise to her. She did her best to try and have the conversations, but she started to cry and excused herself to the bathroom.
My heart broke for her.
She mentioned that although the numbers make sense, she would be losing alot in this. It was definitely an "Oh Sh!t moment" for her. I really don't think she thought this through.
She said she expected this from me. I'm a numbers/details person. I said I wasn't hiding this from her, I just didn't know if we would need it. I didn't know what to expect.
She had mentioned that she was getting screwed over a couple of times. She admitted this was a feeling.. not necessarily what I was doing. I listened and validated.
My w looked very scared. And instead of using anger.. she used that fear.
But I'm very thankful that it was NOT anger.
We took alot of things off the table that were either miscommunication or assumptions. She didn't want to put our wedding rings on the asset list. Praise God for that answered prayer as I didn't want to feel that part of my heart breaking.
However the issues that I thought she would have a problem with she did.
A big one is the cars. Her car is worth $6k more than mine. She feels that $6k shouldn't count against her because she was the breadwinner in LA and feels like since she paid for most of it, she should get it. She asked me if I understood why she felt that way.
I said that I did... but that I contributed to the marriage. I didn't make as much she did, I still made money. That the law sees our finances joined and at the time so did we.
The other thing is that she has been paying my health insurance since our separation. Even though she told me she would pay for it.
She said she did it at the time because she cared about me and wanted to make sure I was taken care of. I felt like that was a dig so I backslid and said "well the separation cause financial hardships on me as well.. I didn't really want to pay extra rent for the past 6 months (puts on my 2x4 helmet protector).
I guess the appropriate feeling would have been - well if you did it because you care - why are you asking for payment for your kindess..
Other than that we did ok. She did accuse me of "f-ing her over, but she apologized immediately. That is a change for her. I applauded loudly.
As we moved further down the list - and I kept bringing up the law and the fact that a marriage is 50/50.. which is something we both agreed on.. it got harder and harder.
(keeps 2x4 hat protector on) And that's when I stopped being calm and started getting emotional. I cried and said that I hated seeing her hurt. That doing this didn't give me pleasure, that knowing she will suffer so it can be fair didn't sit awesome with me.
I mentioned that mediation is supposed to be about the numbers but we both have alot of emotion. I admitted I didn't know what to do about that.
But I saw it coming. I felt the urge to protect her. First I handed over a painting that was dear to her, then on an older TV that cost more even though it's a crappier quality than my 52 inch.
But then I started considering stupid stuff like the car and medical insurance and that's when I stopped it and said I'm protecting ONLY her now and not me by thinking that.
Hooray to growth.
So we shelved it. Said we would look over everything, process everything and meet in two weeks. In the end, she hasn't really compromised on anything I asked.. For now I will assume that is because she didn't think this through so she had no idea how to split things, therefore she needs time to process this all. She needs time to process her consequence.
Outside she asked if I was ok, I said yes. I asked her if she was ok.. she just said that it was hard and she felt tense. I validated.
Then she asked me for a hug and if that was ok. I said yes and I hugged her deeply and her me.
I stuck to my word and kept things off the list that didn't matter to me or that I considered a gift to her. Other than the rent comment, I did not react, get anger, or take any of the bait.
I hold firm to my belief that marriage is 50/50 regardless on if that hurts me or her. I held firm the rights we both possess by law.
I let her see/feel the consequences of her action... for the most part.
And I walked out of there with my head high. I felt that I loved her but more importantly that I loved me!! (high five).
I have more to say about things I learned about w, me and our r but this post is incredibly long as it is.
If you made it through to the end.. I applaud you.
Clap clap clap....I read it all.
And will process it more before being specific...only a few "L" comments
* if the worst that she can do is pay half, and you are requesting that,
then what does she have to lose by NOT mediating? Why shouldn't she fight for more, strategically speaking?
Oh, and if you are going to count assets jointly as 50/50
then why isn't it fair to count contributions that way too? (I.e. the health insurance...)
as for your increased rent, good point, except,
HER rent went up too
(and fault is legally irrelevant).
Well, enough for now. I got too specific too soon,
sorry
Val
you're brilliant to wait 2 weeks and to have gotten through this with "a starter's mindset"...and you didn't lose it, actually neither of you did so
kudos to both of you for that.
All in all, I'd have to say very well done.
((( )))
Val, you did well, kudos to you.
I walked out of there with my head high. I felt that I loved her but more importantly that I loved me!!
That you can post this says you did well and more importantly you know it. From my POV that is the most important take home. Add it to the other blocks and use it to build with.
And will process it more before being specific...only a few "L" comments
* if the worst that she can do is pay half, and you are requesting that
then what does she have to lose by NOT mediating? Why shouldn't she fight for more, strategically speaking?
Ha - I would expect nothing less 25. What she would lose by us not mediating and us using lawyers, well then everything would go on the table. Our 401k (which I took off) and individual/together debt. (which I didn't even consider until this morning.. I don't think she did either).
Our savings would be gone in an instant due to lawyer fees. We would lose more to try and get more. We both know that.
Oh, and if you are going to count assets jointly as 50/50
then why isn't it fair to count contributions that way too? (I.e. the health insurance...)
as for your increased rent, good point, except,
HER rent went up too
(and fault is legally irrelevant).
I've thought about this too. It's something I need to pray about. I'm struggling to deal with the fact that I could very easily take things off the list, but w couldn't unless they were birthday gifts. She used the fact that she loved me to make me feel bad (I don't think purposely) but that's hard to swallow at the moment. I need to go through my feelings to get to a place that I can think instead of react.
Well, enough for now. I got too specific too soon,
sorry
No worries. I look forward to hearing your thoughts whether they are L comments or DB comments.
Thanks for posting this Val. I couldn't stop reading it. It gave me lots of insight and what to expect. You did a gret job.
Thanks Rick. I hope you and your w don't get to this point. I wouldn't wish D on my worst enemy.
Val, you did great! It sounds like you learned this is a long hard process, too. One mediation session is not the end. I think your W learned a lot, too.
I'm sorry you're having to go through this. ((()))
That you can post this says you did well and more importantly you know it. From my POV that is the most important take home. Add it to the other blocks and use it to build with.
Thanks JS.. And you are definitely right about the emotions too.
Val, you did great! It sounds like you learned this is a long hard process, too. One mediation session is not the end. I think your W learned a lot, too.
I'm sorry you're having to go through this. ((()))
Thanks JB. I am definitely learning alot. This isn't the end.. not by a long shot.
I'm sorry too, but I need to learn to love myself and honestly I think this D is going to be a step to showing me how.
Journaling -
It's raining in LA.. in October! I grew up in PA and lived in Chicago for 7 years so seasons have always been a part of my life.
In LA, we don't have seasons. We have super sunny, kinda sunny, june gloom, and rain. I'll take the rain though. My car needed a wash.
I have alot going through my brain right now. It's not that I'm afraid to put my thoughts out there but there is alot of confusion for me.
I can understand why the D process is so ugly now after only 24 hrs. The unsolved problems and feelings that you experience in your marriage only amplify in the D which would make sense.. If those problems were solved, I most likely wouldn't be here.
The emotions are insane. I can say that last night I made offers out of good emotions.. my w.. out of negative ones. It's nearly impossible to not be emotional. I might even go as far as to say that it IS impossible.
Because of this, I can understand the need for a L. Although my w and I are in different fogs, we are both in one.. It's hard to see the finish line, therefore difficult to know which road to take.
I did text my w last night and thanked her for her attitude and openness. That I really appreciated it.
Other than that, I will limit my contact while I continue to process everything.
Whatever the feelings, I am going to allow myself to feel them and then deal with them. The more I'm dealing with stuff, the more I'm okay with dealing with stuff. I'm glad I'm not running any more, not matter how hard it is at times.
Tonight is community with my church. I plan on dressing comfy and enjoying the company of my new friends.
Journaling -
It's raining in LA.. in October! I grew up in PA and lived in Chicago for 7 years so seasons have always been a part of my life.
In LA, we don't have seasons. We have super sunny, kinda sunny, june gloom, and rain. I'll take the rain though. My car needed a wash.
The rain was a nice change of pace, though it makes driving more challenging since folks have trouble with inclement weather.
On the Westside, the storm has now passed and it's a nice sunny day!
I can understand why the D process is so ugly now after only 24 hrs. The unsolved problems and feelings that you experience in your marriage only amplify in the D which would make sense. If those problems were solved, I most likely wouldn't be here.
V...so true! This is my constant struggle -- balancing DB, GAL, and the practical/unwinding.
Because of this, I can understand the need for a L. Although my w and I are in different fogs, we are both in one.. It's hard to see the finish line, therefore difficult to know which road to take.
Whatever the feelings, I am going to allow myself to feel them and then deal with them. The more I'm dealing with stuff, the more I'm okay with dealing with stuff. I'm glad I'm not running any more, not matter how hard it is at times.
I admire your attitude. I know it's difficult for you on so many levels, but take comfort in knowing that you're handling this as well as you can.
I know that mediation is heading my direction...THANKS for giving me a glimpse into what I'm in store for.
I'm happy you're doing okay.
Hey WAW
Yes it was. Thank you. I do question if I'm handling it the best I can. I know I'm definitely thinking about my w's feelings and wants.. I'm just not so sure I'm thinking about myself with such TLC.
I'm sorry mediation is heading your way. It is a difficult thing but you have to believe you will come out of it okay. Easier said than done for sure.
I do question if I'm handling it the best I can. I know I'm definitely thinking about my w's feelings and wants.. I'm just not so sure I'm thinking about myself with such TLC.
V:
Likely because you're still dealing with the sitx...hard to look at your WAS in such a "business" context while wrestling with the hopes of reconciling. As the more experienced folks mention, there needs to be detachment. But, it's not an easy thing to get too.
You're doing well, though I know it's difficult to see that being so close to the situation.
Hang in there!
Val,
I'm really proud of you.
You've come so far.. your W would only be so lucky to join you on your journey.. because I can see you are going to keep growing.
You deserve to be proud of yourself and build on the self-control, self-respect, and dignity that you showed the other day.
I'm sure none of this was easy for you to experience.. but you did experience it and you did so w/ an open heart. That's so important. You know you can 'deal with it.'
I hope that you get to take some time and just reflect on how far you've come. I applaud it.
Thanks Aeo! I would honestly love for my w to join me on this journey.. but it seems that card isn't part of my current hand. *shrug*
Reflecting on Tuesday - my w is still clearly angry at me. She says she wants to be fair to both of us, however her idea of fairness changes when it comes to LA. It's like our 4 years in Chicago were a marriage, but in LA.. it's different.
Our hardships in Chicago were many too. There were many times where one made more than the other. I honestly don't believe she felt anger towards me or vice versa so I'm still having a hard time figuring out what changed in her mind.
I know I'm mind-reading, but if the anger is true, it explains so much. It explains why she felt such anger towards my work increasing in the last 6 months. It explains why she doesn't want to give the car (which she blatantly stated) or why she is going back on her word about the health insurance. It explains the comments of "me screwing her over", or the "I did it at the time because I cared about you".
But I just don't know what to do about it. I validated and apologized but at the end of the day.. those are her demons.
She can continue to use that as a reason for D or her getting more than what is fair or she can deal with those feelings. I pray that God works in her heart. It would be a huge change to put her anger aside and see our marriage as equal no matter the outcome to her. It would be huge for her to say that I do deserve 50%.. even if the situation isn't ideal for her.
It would be her saying "This is hard for me, but I care (or love) you Val".
It would be her dealing with me.. which again is something she doesn't want to do.
It would be putting me first (in her mind).. which goes against everything she is doing right now.
I don't really know how to DB that. In the rare occasions we do see each other we allow ourselves to be emotional and then she closes back up. She has mentioned many times that there is no point getting emotional, they lead us in circles and it doesn't matter now.
All in all, she's pretty set on her decision not just have a physical divorce, but the emotional one as well.
I don't know what to do for myself. I have been looking in my heart and although the hurt and anger is there..I don't really have a HUGE internal struggle to use those emotions to attack her.
She has caused me many hardships, financially & emotionally but to use them as tools to benefit from my D just doesn't seem fair to her.
However I do feel that I contributed to our relationship the best I could for 8 yrs.. and for her to use her anger doesn't seem fair to me. It doesn't seem like a valid reason for me to get less. It could also be that although she is angry, this wouldn't be the first time she tried to controlled the situation. She knows how to push my buttons to get certain reactions.. and I don't mean angry ones.. but ones where I come in to protect or apologize. I'm not saying she did that purposefully because I know I didn't act that way purposefully.. but I did see that dance happen on Tuesday.
I don't really want to stop seeing us as an equal partnership. I believe it's the best way to ensure my feelings don't get in the way and that I can continue to be loving to both of us... but I'm at a hard crossroad now.
I can fight to keep it 50/50. To establish myself as truly an equal part of the marriage regardless of her feelings, setting up healthy boundaries.. and let go of the possibility of recon.
Or I could just say "screw it". Give her what she wants. Do this unhealthy cycle one last time and then move on.
Does it matter that I change the dynamic of our relationship when our relationship seems over?
Does it matter that I show her love in a different way (a more healthier way) by allowing consequences to happen?
Is this the battle I want to fight in order to prove to myself that I am worth it?
I don't know..
Reflecting on Tuesday - my w is still clearly angry at me. She says she wants to be fair to both of us, however her idea of fairness changes when it comes to LA.
But I just don't know what to do about it. I validated and apologized but at the end of the day.. those are her demons.
She can continue to use that as a reason for D or her getting more than what is fair or she can deal with those feelings.
It would be her dealing with me.. which again is something she doesn't want to do.
It would be putting me first (in her mind).. which goes against everything she is doing right now.
I don't really know how to DB that. In the rare occasions we do see each other we allow ourselves to be emotional and then she closes back up. She has mentioned many times that there is no point getting emotional, they lead us in circles and it doesn't matter now.
All in all, she's pretty set on her decision not just have a physical divorce, but the emotional one as well. [quote]
V:
I sympathize, my WAW feels EXACTLY the same. To hear repeatedly "it doesn't matter anymore", cuts like a knife.
Under the circumstances, we must accept that all we can do is work on us--to be the best we can be and "protect" ourselves. We can't let our desire for R get in the way of that. Again, much EASIER said then done.
I'll let the more sage folks jump in, but letting your WAS get what they want at your expense....will that really help with R?
Will that help you with becoming a better you?
I'm sorry you're going through this, I know it's not easy.
I know I'm mind-reading, but if the anger is true, it explains so much. It explains why she felt such anger towards my work increasing in the last 6 months. It explains why she doesn't want to give the car (which she blatantly stated) or why she is going back on her word about the health insurance. It explains the comments of "me screwing her over", or the "I did it at the time because I cared about you".
I think I understand where you are coming from here.
It can be tempting to look at
their anger or theorize that they are angry and repressing it. I think it provides an intellectually satisfying explanation for what is happening.
And to an extent there is likely a lot of unresolved anger going on. Sadly, validating and apologizing only goes so far. There is a point where people are gripping that anger tightly because it comes to define them in some way. Even if they don't see it as anger.
Righteousness, perhaps.
It would be putting me first (in her mind).. which goes against everything she is doing right now.
I wonder if it's possible to look at this from some other angles?
Is she really putting herself first, in terms of what she wants? Or is a question of what she fears? What makes her anxiety unbearable for her?
She has caused me many hardships, financially & emotionally but to use them as tools to benefit from my D just doesn't seem fair to her...... I'm not saying she did that purposefully because I know I didn't act that way purposefully.. but I did see that dance happen on Tuesday
What if you don't look at them as tools to benefit from your D, but simply as things that happened? However, you also stay committed to a fair and equitable process where you get what you are rightly entitled to?
The dance you speak of - it will keep happening because as much as your W believes that leaving you will solve her problems.. it doesn't really change anything.
You've already gotten this - so you are trying to change the dance, introduce new steps, new rhythms..
Does it matter that I change the dynamic of our relationship when our relationship seems over?
You tell me -- does it matter
for you?
I know no one likes to hear this.. myself included.. but if D ends it.. you will eventually meet new people. And you will always be stuck with yourself.
Is there a better time than right now to change that experience for you?
Does it matter that I show her love in a different way (a more healthier way) by allowing consequences to happen?
Is this the battle I want to fight in order to prove to myself that I am worth it?
I think you already know you are worth it.
Whether or not you show her love by allowing consequences to happen .. it depends. What is in your best interests?
Separating self-interest from punitive behavior is a big challenge in this experience. I think you are asking some good questions of yourself..
Thanks Aeo. I'll have to process your questions. I have the answers to alot of them, but as you know... everything is a little bit more complicated than "yes" or "no".
Jounaling -
Been overwhelmed with my feelings the past couple days. Mostly been stuck in fear. Afraid of this process, afraid of the outcome, afraid to fight fairly, afraid to lose everything.
My w and I are not legally married in California. We moved here a few weeks before Prop 8 passed. That adds a level of complexity to everything. I have been trying to spend some time looking into these complexities.. it's been emotionally draining. Looking into how to dissolve a domestic partnership in two states... when I don't want one period... is difficult.
Took a break from my head to go hydrobiking with a friend. It's like riding a bike on a plastic kayak. You would think 1hr would be nothing.. but it was extremely challenging.
About 40 minutes in I wanted to give up. I was tired and my legs burned like a MoFo.. I could see the finish line but just wanted to be there. I tried peddling faster but for some reason that didn't work. If I didn't peddle at all and go with the current, it took me farther away from my goal.
I couldn't go back, I couldn't stay put.. I HAD to move forward. I couldn't jump to the finish line. I had to endure the pain and just keep on.. keeping on.
Suddenly I bursted out in tears. I started peddling. I put my head praying and just put one step in front of the other.
When I reached the finish line, I was exhausted. I wiped the tears from my eyes and said "I did it". I hurt but I made it. I smiled.
I'm pretty sure on the bike, in the middle of the ocean, God spoke to me (I'm still new to that concept so it's hard to know for sure).
This morning I barely got myself out of bed. I wanted to give up.. not in a suicidal way but I was just over it. I just wanted to skip to the end of this road, be divorced, never talk to my wife again, and pray that what I settled for would last. I wanted to stop caring about my w, our marriage, I wanted the pain to be over, all my tears finally shed.
But I'm sure now that I'm not supposed to give up or take shortcuts, I need to keep moving forward no matter the pain or exhaustion. I need to keep trying. I need to keep pushing on. That is God's plan for me.
I just don't know what I'm supposed to be exactly moving forward on. Still fighting for m, still loving w, loving myself.. all of the above.
I'm sure that part of the answer will come soon enough.
Jounaling -
Been overwhelmed with my feelings the past couple days. Mostly been stuck in fear. Afraid of this process, afraid of the outcome, afraid to fight fairly, afraid to lose everything.
This morning I barely got myself out of bed. I wanted to give up.. not in a suicidal way but I was just over it. I just wanted to skip to the end of this road, be divorced, never talk to my wife again, and pray that what I settled for would last. I wanted to stop caring about my w, our marriage, I wanted the pain to be over, all my tears finally shed.
But I'm sure now that I'm not supposed to give up or take shortcuts, I need to keep moving forward no matter the pain or exhaustion. I need to keep trying. I need to keep pushing on. That is God's plan for me.
I just don't know what I'm supposed to be exactly moving forward on. Still fighting for m, still loving w, loving myself.. all of the above.
I'm sure that part of the answer will come soon enough.
V:
Thanks for checking my thread earlier today, much appreciated.
The visit was emotionally draining, so I'll post details tomorrow.
I just read your post...I empathize, I know the feelings you're describing, especially after my meeting with my WAW today.
I wish for you peace and clarity...will be thinking about you too.