In order to mentally prepare myself and to get my brain into detach mode:
Thinking long term...
I am making a list of the repairs that need to be done if we have to sell the house.
Also, I am making a list of the assets I want for the separation agreement if needed
I am going to make an asset and liabilities statement for division of property (stocks pension etc.)
Custody will have to be worked out
Who gets the dog?
What am I missing here?
Should I include my W in this process or would she see that as pressure?
Red pill / blue pill... I believe if you take the red pill...
Man, it would have been nice if someone could have given me a manual to detach...
Should I include my W in this process or would she see that as pressure?
You already know the answer to this, neo...
I have been making a similar list - other than division of assets (I'm just not there yet, as well I don't think he would fight me for much of anything. He just doesn't care about 'stuff'). My list is all the house stuff (ie repairs, painting etc) that I want to do. I have started documenting all our finances, so I can plan a realistic budget for when I am truly a single Mom. I've researched child support etc etc.
My suggestion is to think about your custody arrangements. What do you think is fair? what would you be comfortable with? What would be best for the kids? etc etc. Don't discuss with W AT ALL - believe me discussions of custody never go well. Just prepare yourself for IF the time comes. So you can talk about it calmly and logically.
Personally I am at the point where I am preparing for the absolute worst case scenario - which I fully expect to happen right now. But I am not discussing anything with H - I just want to prepare myself both financially and emotionally as best I can. Although, I don't think you can ever fully prepare your heart for any of this. If things work out in the end, then fabulous and no harm done b.c you haven't discussed any of this with your spouse yet.
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best right? A close friend keeps reminding me that nothing is really done until that paper is signed. Wish you well!
Wow, I dont know how to describe ny feelings today. One minute I'm ok, the next terrified, the next sad. What a ride. I think detaching from your spouse is pretty tough to do. I have found it very tough to keep my happy act going around her. My guts are churning, my brain is replaying happy memories, my heart is breaking. I can feel my love for her whithering, because I know, my marriage as I know it is dead. This must be how she has been feeling for a long time, I don't like it. I have released the rope. Maybe the fact that we (W, S, and I) are missing the girls (11 and 6) so much it is adding to my pain. I have tried reading success stories to give me hope, but truthfully, it's too painful. I am very happy for anyone who is able to rekindle their dying marriage... You are so lucky. Why did my marriage have to get to this point for me to realize how much I love my wife. I wish I had, held her more, talked to her more, and listened to her a lot more.
I want to write a letter to my wife telling her how I am feeling and my feelings for her, but I know better than to do that. I am sticking to the plan and doing my best to detach from her, It sux. My W seems to be in a happy mood. I am off work again today, and looking forward to my vist with the psychiatrist tomorrow. I hope he can help me. G.A.L. I suppose it would be a good thing for me to go back to work, as that would keep me busy. I was thinking about my sitch last night and it occurred to me that I have been DBing for longer than I thought. The problem was that every time I "fell off the wagon". It reset the clock. Truthfully, I am scared to admit this, but my W appears to have moved on. That's why she had her A. She has started her new journey, unfortunately, I'm caught in the door dragging beside the car. I know I will get through this, I just have to be strong and soldier forward. God, please give me the strength to seize control of my life again.
j
I want to write a letter to my wife telling her how I am feeling and my feelings for her, but I know better than to do that. I am sticking to the plan and doing my best to detach from her, It sux.
Yes, it does, but I'm pleased to see that you're learning, and becoming less reactionary Johnnie. Sending a letter like that would be
disaster at this point.
Starsky
Just got this email from my wife.
"Hi
Hope your monday goes well at (work) hell ;P
So (son) has swimming mon to thursday this week everynight again....then he passes level 4! (pretty sure he will pass)
And I have my course from 9-2PM friday and (Sister In Law) is taking (son) for me. I will do some groceries on thursday night, so if you need or want something let me know by then ok! Are you able to get (son) from sister in laws) or do you want me to see if she can drop him off to you when you get home friday night.
I am camping for 2 nights and (somethingfest) concert and shopping in the states too.
The next weekend you are prob working again and me and (son) are off to get the girls.
Also good luck on wednesday with your interview.
PS called (daughters) this AM and they are having fun off to the beach and kyacking too. Maybe call them when you get home from work as not to upset them right before bed."
How do I respond to this letter?
I can feel the panic building in my veins.
What if she is going to (somthingfest) with him? it's all I can think about...
How am I supposed to concentrate during my job interview?
I need help please!
Should I ask who she is camping with?
Should I ask who she is camping with?
NO!
Response along the lines of: "Thanks for the update. This should be a great week! I (can or cannot) get son from SIL." Polite, non-needy, mysterious.
Answer it like it's from a business associate, trying to work out the logistics of some business meetings with you. You'd be civil (even friendly), helpful, informative, right?
Ignore any of the personal stuff, and just answer the logistics stuff. Be courteous and responsive.
You'd be best to just assume thru all of this, Johnnie, that yeah, she IS spending time with OM. It helps to assume the worst, and then just plan accordingly.
Starsky
God, this is tough.
Is she testing me?
I thought I could just let go of the rope. It a lot toughr than I thought...
J
Just got this email from my wife.
"Hi
Hope your monday goes well at (work) hell ;P
So (son) has swimming mon to thursday this week everynight again....then he passes level 4! (pretty sure he will pass)
And I have my course from 9-2PM friday and (Sister In Law) is taking (son) for me. I will do some groceries on thursday night, so if you need or want something let me know by then ok! Are you able to get (son) from sister in laws) or do you want me to see if she can drop him off to you when you get home friday night.
I am camping for 2 nights and (somethingfest) concert and shopping in the states too.
The next weekend you are prob working again and me and (son) are off to get the girls.
Also good luck on wednesday with your interview.
PS called (daughters) this AM and they are having fun off to the beach and kyacking too. Maybe call them when you get home from work as not to upset them right before bed."
This does remind me a little of that scene (was it a Woody Allen movie or maybe a George Carlin routine? I can't remember . . . ) where the guy goes into a convenience store, and wants to get a dirty magazine, but wants to be all nonchalant, and so he says to the clerk "I'll have some Tic-Tacs, and a 2-litre bottle of Coke, and some Advil, oh and that Penthouse right there, and some gum, and . . . "
So yeah, she's probably trying to finesse you Johnnie, but so what? You need to ask yourself "What did I just possibly learn right there,
that I didn't already know??" Have you ever seen the "You're already dead" scene, from "Band of Brothers?" Many around here have found that it's the best way to DB when dealing with the really painful stuff:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tKYJLfWqTBY Starsky
So,.. I'm already divorced...
This sux
How long will I have to live like this?
She is keeping me twisting in the wind... It's cruel.
It would be easier for me to protect my self and the kids if I told her to leave. Just give her her freedom. She may find that she doesent like that life and come back. Or she may be gone for good at that point, but at least, I will be able to heal and the toxic environment in the house will be gone for the kids, and we can move forward.
The truth is Johnnie, if you were following the advice that most are giving you here, it is YOU who would soon be in the position of making a decision about what was going to happen next.
YOU.
Personally? I'm not sharing my house, let alone my life, with a woman who pledged her fidelity to me and yet is in the midst of a hot affair. If you're just confused and you need some time to think (without the red hot romance), that's one thing. If you're just stringing me along because it's nice to have a safe place to land at night...No Thanks.
But to get to that point, you have to be solid. You have to have done the work. You have to have put inthe time.
You're spending all your time lamenting the fact that your wife has had an affair and may very well be continuing it. You seem to have an almost obssessive need to talk about it (even though she's already confirmed it) and hash it out with her.
Are you thinking you're going to be able to shame her in to stopping it? Fat chance.
Are you think you're going to make her change her mind by verbalizing all the changes you are making right now? Fat Chance again.
There is absolutely NOTHING that you gain by allowing all your energy and all your focus to be wrapped up in what she is or isn't doing.
Your wife has had an affair. It probably continues even now.
That's a message to you Johnnie. It's a message that she trying something else out for now, because she's not happy with what she had before.
It might not even be you. As you've already mentioned, she's been burned out by doing the daycare life for too long. She's getting a little older. She's got a hot friend who is LIVING LIFE and she thought maybe she'd like some of that.
So she's getting it.
And you are paralyzed.
I would think you could at least get pissed off enough about what is taking place to force yourself to start LIVING YOUR OWN LIFE, even if it was just to spite her for what's she's done!
None of this stuff is winning her back. None of this stuff is attractive or enticing. If you're showing us this kind of stuff in your words, I can just imagine how you LOOK.
Time to man up before it's too late Johnnie.
This woman is NOT your life. She's your WIFE. You have shared a life together, but you've been doing your own breathing all along. You do NOT NEED her.
You can't win it back, if you never let it go.
Blessings,
Bill
So,.. I'm already divorced...
This sux
Yep, it does. But the message of that sergeant in the movie is that ONLY BY ACTING LIKE YOU'RE ALREADY DEAD (divorced), can you POSSIBLY SAVE YOUR LIFE (marriage).
It's the ultimate expression of "detachment."
The thing is, that I would be doing the same thing as I do right now. Be a great father, spend time with friends, exercise, work movies, playing with my kids... What am I missing?
The thing is, that I would be doing the same thing as I do right now. Be a great father, spend time with friends, exercise, work movies, playing with my kids... What am I missing?
What you're missing is, LETTING GO OF THE OUTCOME.
Would you still do those things that you list, if you knew for a FACT that they wouldn't be "rewarded" -- wouldn't result in a successful outcome, as you're currently defining it? (in other words, it wouldn't result in a reconciliation with your wife)
Would you still do them? If so, why, and if not, why not?
Johnnie
Detaching is not the same as acting as if you're divorced. you don't need to divvy up the house to be detached.
again, slow down. breathe.
you keep saying you're confused and all over the place, and then follow this up by making life changing decisions of who gets the dog.
panic mode is the absolute worst time to make decisions. you're still in shock, you have such a long way to go.
detaching is purely emotional, has nothing to do with your furniture. nor is it about killing the love for your wife. nor is it about ending your marriage.
its the act of being strong enough that your situation cant break you emotionally.
Hermann Hesse wrote of the strength of water, no matter what you throw in its path, it continues flowing.
read other threads here, learn from them, offer them support. you've been here about a month and haven't commented on any other threads. these are people just like you, and can profit from you and you from them.
get out of your own head for a while, stop thinking only of your own situation.
and again, slow down.
I don't if this helps you, but they did to me. These 2 things helped me a lot during my darkest times.
1: Do NOT make any big changes in your life, finances, anything right now. Take it easy.
2: Consider this year as 'no-count-year'. Means that whatever bad happens for 1 year from now, in your memories it does NOT count. Treat them like they did not happen to you.
The second one helped me a lot. Lot of negative stuff happens during this time and as you start paying attention to each of them, they become unbearable. By saying to myself that whatever bad stuff happens this i'll treat it like it is not happening to me detaches the emotions a bit. See if they help you.
Johnie
You have got some great help here, esp the ones above.
Look I have been reading your thread from the start, and I must be honest, I don’t see a lot of moving forward by YOU.
Hell yes its hard, bl**dy hard, I know, I’m there also, as are many others. You need to take a deep breath, step back and look at where you are.
DETATCH, DETATCH, DETATCH
Again, Bl**dy hard, but you MUST DO IT, or work to it. As Yoda says, do or do not, there is not try
Let go of what you have no control over, you control YOU. Ask yourself these questions (these are some of the ones I asked myself)
1) Who is Johnie?
What I mean by this is not the person you had became, not the person you were at the end of the marriage, and not the person you portray now, but who is the real Johnie, what wonderful traits did you have when you first met W, what makes you tick. Think who you really are. You are a lot more confident deep down aren’t you.
2) Acceptance (this is just the start of this one!)
Recognise your faults, how you contributed to the failure of the marriage. Acknowledge them, accept them and own them. Learn from them, but don't dwell on them. Only then will you be able to forgive yourself and others and move forward.
3) What do you want? (Different to need, but some may be the same)
You only get one chance at life, and most experts say one major f up/mistake. What do you want out of life? What makes you happy? Where do you want to be? What vision do you have for this? How will you get to this vision?
4) GAL
How can you enjoy life, think of activities with your kids, on your own, with friends etc etc etc
You can do this, we are here to help you, but please please listen to others here who offer exceptional advise and a lot based from THEIR experiences of what works.
Yes, you don’t have to listen to any of it, but WTH would we all be doing here if we ignored stuff.
Do what works, do not do what does not work, like the books and good peps here say
Say to yourself over and over to start believing it, “no matter what happens I can handle it”
Come on Johnie
Yes. Absolutely. I will be doing all these things and more because they are for me. Not her. I like the new me, and I will be adjusuting to new behaviors as I grow.
It's great that you spend time with your kids and all, but you need to start GAL away from the house and without your children. It's best to get all decked out and walk through the room your W is in at the moment, and tell her you're going out and don't know when you'll be home. She'll be mad, of course, and ask all the typical questions.....but you don't answer, just repeat what you said and get the heck out of there. Plan to be out past midnight, anyway.
This is the only way you are going to start telling a difference in your feelings. I don't want you to give any excuses. We done heard all the ones where the kids are concerned.
Thank you everyone for your words..
First off, I did have a Drs appointment and was diagnosed with something called "adjustment disorder". I will find out more about that at my psychotherapist visit tomorrow. In essence, i think it has to do with my ability to accept change. I was doing ok (not perfect) at DB, then in June 1 I was hit with letter bomb, after which I read DR. So really I have only been trying to cope with the letter bomb for 2 weeks b4 I was hit with, job loss on the 14th of June, and then Affair Bomb on July the 3rd. (yes people 3 bombs in 1 month) Yes I could have handled the situation better on July 3rd, but I was overwhelmed. I am proud of my self for not yelling, screaming or sobbing after that devastating news of her affair. Now... Have I learned a lot, absolutely, I have. Do I have more to learn, absolutely, will I get better at DR, with time yes.
When I ask a question it's because I don't get it. I am following the DR program against the advice of my physician. He told me that letting my wife delay making a decision on the future of her affair, is affecting my health. However, even though I think it would be vital for me to set my boundaries with her(end the affair, or find a new place to live) I am not doing that, because it would put pressure on her to make a decision. You know the other side of the coin is I could ask for the decision and if she took the option to leave, she would have time to experience a life, that is very different to the one she has now. Statistics prove that greater than 90% of affair relationships where a married partner leaves the marriage for the affair partner end In Failure. it's been said here in the stories of successes that, in many cases once the unfaithful spouse has experienced their exciting new life, they realize that the grass really is not greener on the other side, and many come back to their spouse.
So, whats the point of all of this?
1.
Confidence = very little right now, I am adjusting it's been a brutal month.
Changes = made em, I'm pretty happy with who I am.
Who was Johnnie b4 I was married? = an immature, selfish, arrogant kid.
Who is Johnnie now? = a mature loving, civic minded, father, a supportive, hard working, respondsable and loving Husband, a mentoring, punctual, top 3% quartile employee. The list goes on. I am proud of myself. Did I lose my way at being the perfect husband... Obviously, but that can't be undone, only improved upon going forward.
2.
What faults of mine contributed to my marriage breakdown?
Temper (I'm European you know),
selfish (I like to get my way).
Controlling (didn't let my wife buy everything she wanted all the time),
Frugal (money's tight when you have 3 kids and 1.5 incomes)
Poor communicator with my wife (I talk all day long, when I get home I didn't talk because I was tired of talking) (She needed to talk to adults, because she was stuck with kids all day). I realize that now.
Lazy (I was raised in a house where my mother took care of the household chores)
Impatient Father (I expect discipline from my children, something most parents don't do enough of with their kids, have noticed how disrespectful some kids are? Mine aren't.
Who is Johnnie now?
All of the above traits have been addressed and improved greatly since February, still a work in progress on frugal though I want to have the house paid off 10 year early so that my wife and I could travel while we were still fairly young.
3.
What do I want:
I want to be an excellent, loving and supportive father and husband, I want to be the best in class in my job performance. I want to be the man others look up to as a role model. I want to travel and really experience other cultures. I want the highest attended funeral, when that day comes. I believe in treating others the way you yourself would like to be treated, I teach that to my kids, and that means I have to live up to that to set an example. Like I said before, I may have lost my way from time to time, but I'm getting better.
4. GAL. I have a life. Exactly the life I loved, then slowly over time, the other half of that life pulled away, until one day she vocalized it, and when she did and I could see it, she was done. I wish we would have communicated better so that this never happened, my life has sucked ever since. Yes I gave her too much power in my life over my happiness, quite simply, I saw that as love.
In marriage Most days I feel like I'm running throughout the forest with a blindfold... I've hit my share of trees, I just wish somebody would help me take that blinfold off. That blindfold is communication, her addiction to her crack berry texting, my willingness to talk only on commercials has significantly stunted our cerebral connection, so, that will be my first area of focus should I ever get the chance.
I'm starting right now.
Sandi,
I don't think that would even phase her. Truthfully, she shows no signs of caring what I do. I have been GAL and nothing.
Maybe I just need to do that more. I need to buy new clothes though all the old ones are too big. I've lost 41 lbs since Feb. I have to be careful until I secure my financial future with a new job.
I will offer support, when I feel like I have more experience at DR. Right now it would be the blind leading the blind.
GAL Man,
That is some awesome advice, and well thought out answer Johnie.
The disciple with the kids? I have a similar desire, however, I also backed off a little bit and the rewards are...amazing.
They are still respectful and polite, but I have taken time to enage more with them.
Oh GAL,
pretty sure you can say:
bloody.
Although I admire your restraint.
Does it have a different meaning in the Queens English? Like the f word?
Thanks GAL man, I feel much better about myself after that exercise...[quote][/quote]
Jack...
I agree on the backing off part, I too use rewards based behavior modification now... Like I said b4, I am way closer to the kids now
Cheers!
My physician suggested that I should tell my wife about the effect her delay in discussing her A is having on me physically and emotionally. I think it would sound something like this:
I just thought you should know that I am under a physicians care for the stress caused by the events of last Sunday. I have been diagnosed with "adjustment disorder". This has manifested itself through insomnia and no appetite and extreme mood swings and tachacardia. These symptoms will persist until we can discuss your decision on your future plans.
Obviously, this would be putting pressure on her, but, how could I reword it so as to be less pressur'ish...
Yeah I have a better way to reword it...don't say anything at all.
It's not putting pressure on her. It's making you sound like a wuss and a child to put it mildly. Just a 2x4.
I understand your need to get things out there, but telling your W isn't the way to do it. Think about it this way...if there were a woman that was interested in you and all she did was talk about how her health was deteriorating because of her love for you, would that make you want to go out with her or move away from her?
First things first. You've got to break this codependency you have with her. You don't need her to live a healthy life. Sure it's not ideal, but you don't need her. You didn't need her before you got married right? You have to get that back.
What is it about the OM that she is attracted to? Not saying you have to be like him, but you want to outdo him. You're already the better man for standing for your M. Now it's time for you to bring that to the surface.
Release the fear you have about your W and what her reaction or non-reaction will be. Start being the man instead of acting like it.
I have no idea what the OM is like. I
have never met him. Personally, I hope I never do.
That way he can keep his teeth.
My physician suggested that I should tell my wife about the effect her delay in discussing her A is having on me physically and emotionally. I think it would sound something like this:
I just thought you should know that I am under a physicians care for the stress caused by the events of last Sunday. I have been diagnosed with "adjustment disorder". This has manifested itself through insomnia and no appetite and extreme mood swings and tachacardia. These symptoms will persist until we can discuss your decision on your future plans.
Obviously, this would be putting pressure on her, but, how could I reword it so as to be less pressur'ish...
No, NO, and HELL NO.Listen to Bond. You can lean on us, lean on friends, family, and/or God Himself, but DON'T lean on your wife in this. You need to show strength.
Starsky
This is the only way you are going to start telling a difference in your feelings. I don't want you to give any excuses. We done heard all the ones where the kids are concerned.
So basically you are saying communicate to her by attitude... Like, "you aren't the boss of me"
Is that right Sandi2 ?
Ok star sky.
How long would you suggest I give her to "think about things" (regarding her A) before I say enough is enough. If you stay, A is over, if you want to keep OM, you can leave.
Ok star sky.
How long would you suggest I give her to "think about things" (regarding her A) before I say enough is enough. If you stay, A is over, if you want to keep OM, you can leave.
Asked and answered, upthread. Many times over.
First of all, don't answer all of her messages if it's not necessary. Forget about the friendly banter. There is a time and place for it and now's not the time. Obviously your health is suffering because of it.
If she messages you, respond with "hey I can't talk right now, I'm out. I'll get back to you later." Then turn off the phone.
Show her you've moved on. Where is she living now?
She is living in the same house. She is not rude or anything like that, I try to be civil to her, but I can't look into her eyes. We are both keeping our distance from each other. I wait for a while if she emails during the day. I have been deliberately staying outside until bedtime, we sleep in separate rooms.
Go out to a U-Haul store and buy a bunch of boxes. Can't afford? Go get empty boxes somewhere.
Put the boxes in a place where she will see them.
Just plant the boxes and let em sit.
IF she asks, what the boxes are for, Calmly WITH Strength tell her "I don't know yet, but until I know I'm not living in an open marriage I'm preparing for the choice I'm going to have to make". Then walk away and do your normal thing. IF she pursues with questions, just say "I do not want to talk about this right now". Leave the house if you have to.
You want to do something differently Johnnie? Do this.
Let her wonder for a change what YOU are doing. I'm tired of seeing you in pain and focusing on the "what if's"; "what do I do" "why why why"; You want a reaction, follow the instructions above and keep acting "as if" nothing is wrong. You need to find empowerment. You need confidence Johnnie.
You need to reduce the mere quantity of what you always seem to suggest saying/writing to her. You tend to go on and on, saying much more than needs to be said.
You also have a way of condemning her with the things that you say, even when they are apologies from you for something you supposedly have done wrong.
Remember that your wife is not a student of yours. You should not be in the business of teaching her with your words. That is condescending and will never be received well.
Blessings,
Bill
Thank Bill for your insight, I didn't see that. I suppose I have been talking to her in that manner because I have seen her go from a mature woman into an immature twenty something.
I am trying to cut down on my communication with her. I have also been removing myself when she comes into the room.
On the emotional side, I have decided to think of her as "someone else". Because she truly has changed so much in the last 1.5 years. I think that if I can picture her as an old ex girlfriend who was needy and clingy to me, then I can move forward. It will be tough though because with all, the weight she has lost, she looks DAMN GOOD.
Thanks again
Johnnieno1, I've been following your sitch, and I'm going to chime in here with something you probably already know but have not done:
you've gotta grow a pair.
NO WOMAN, whether she's single, happily married, unhappily married, divorced, or _______________(fill in the blank) wants to have anything to do with a weak man. And you are coming off as a weak man to your W. Stop communicating. Stop acting like a hurt puppy.
GET A LIFE.
We have all been where you are. And we have all found out this type of behavior does not work.
Read that again: "This type of behavior does not work." Ever.
I have been living with my W since the bomb dropped 4 months ago. I did everything you have been doing. It got me nowhere. I took the advice of the veterans on this site and pulled back; way back. I took back my role of "Man of the House." That does not mean I became a controlling bully or continued to be a whiny little boy. But I do not go out of my way to avoid my W. She is the one who is threatening to walk so I let her deal with any discomfort. I come and go without saying a word. I make my own meals, do my own laundry and basically live as if she were not in the house.
If you continue to try and change your W or the situation, you will fail. You will drive her away faster than you can believe, and she will see no reason to return.
Stop talking. Start doing.
By the way, I VERY much liked Faith's idea about the moving boxes.
I would be inclined to do something like that.
The key is (and wait for this Johnnie)...
I would NOT be doing that for an opportunity to TALK. In fact, I don't really want to TALK about it at all.
I would be doing it because I HONESTLY felt like I was at the point of preparing to make a decision FOR ME.
And if she asked, that's all I would have to say about it.
Blessings,
Bill
Thanknyou gm23.
I am putting the suggestions into play. Even though my heart can't let go, I have to act as if and move forward. I sometimes wonder though if my efforts to start my GAL are true to me. What I am trying to say is, I really have no interest in going out to bars and that stuff. I went through that stage for many years before I met my wife and to be honest, was very unhappy in that life. I always wanted to get married,settle down and raise a family (what I am doing now). Being a great father and husband, is fulfilling to me.
I know that once my wife makes the step to adress her affair to me, and her family, she will suddenly realize the life she has been living. I have been a loving husband to her dispite my flaws and she has lived a comfortable lifestyle. With my changes and the fact that I have kept them going, I think that with some time and a lot more effort she will realize what we have had right here all along, patience, fortitude, understanding, determination and most importantly forgiveness, will see me through. Hopefully that realization will cause her to rethink her actions. I know that deep down, she does still love me, she is just confused about it, and the fact is that her mlc, home daycare crisis are major contributing factors as well. I have not given it my all yet. I know that if we get to the stage of a separation agreement, I will refuse to sign it untill we have been to marriage counseling.
If we can't get through mc, then it will be time to move along, however I am still going to be a fantastic father.
I am going to repost a question I asked in one of my previous threads that I never got a response to... Hopefully someone can share their thoughts...
The key is (and wait for this Johnnie)...
I would NOT be doing that for an opportunity to TALK. In fact, I don't really want to TALK about it at all.
Here's something about TALKING that I saved in my archives awhile back:
Types of Convos
Exactly. Here's the thing: if someone is in an ongoing, unrepentant affair, there are only a few types of conversations/communications they can have with their betrayed spouse, and ALL of them are cheeseless tunnels for the BS:
1) NEGATIVE ones. Blame-making, re-writing marital history, angry outbursts, fight-picking, etc. 'nuff said.
2) Seemingly POSITIVE ones. So long as they are still in contact with OM/OW and lying to their spouse about it, these are all "bullchit spin" at best, and outright GASLIGHTING and LIES at worse. And the problem is, the betrayed spouse inevitably sees this as "baby steps!" and true marital progress, when they are no such thing. They can lead to horrible strategic and tactical mistakes, esp. if the BS doesn't have a good intel system in place. Reading my old journal yesterday, I was BLOWN AWAY at how stable I was able to be in the face of my wife's deceit, simply because I HAD INTEL TO SHOW ME OTHERWISE. This can't be overemphasized.
3) LEGAL/FINANCIAL ones. These are best handled by your attorney, for the obvious reasons. If you start negotiating yourself, when you are way, way, WAY too emotionally entrenched in the situation (and also often running on too-little sleep and WAY too-little emotional needs of your own being met), YOU WILL MAKE FOOLISH MISTAKES and UNWISE CONCESSIONS.
4) FAMILY/LOGISTICAL ones. These are fine, but best handled via e-mail or text message. A cheating spouse will use these as a ploy to lure you into R convos and worse; SEE #1 ABOVE.
5) SMALL-TALK. This is fine, but only in RESPONSE -- don't initiate it if your strategy is to go "dim" and if it's to go "dark" you shouldn't even respond. If it's "dim," then only respond to one of every several communications, and usually delayed, because you're BUSY and GETTING A LIFE, remember?
Repost of previous question...
Also, I am wondering if a WAW, can be influenced to be a WAW, by someone else's coaching. One of my W friends is newly separated about 14 months now. My wife's behavior changed drastically when she started hanging out with this person more. I know that my w was not overjoyed with our marriage, but I always thought it was due to the home daycare stress. All of which would relieve itself in time. My W is the type of person who can be easily influenced by someone with a more dominant personality. I've seen it in how she mimicked her sister b4 her friend came into the picture...
She started dressing like her friend...
She started wearing dark makeup like her friend.
She started going to the gym like her friend.
She started going out on the weekends instead of spending time with me, like her friend...
She got a blackberry so she could text her friend...
She met OM through her friend
The list goes on.
Now, I am not blaming this on the friend, but could the friend be coaching my wife in a misguided attempt to help her? Has my wife chosen to model these behaviors after her example,, it just seems too convenient. Will she ever go back to herself again? Will she realize that she is not being true ie to herself?
At one point last year I called her on it... I said "I married YOU! Not "friend".
She got angry and said not to blame "friend" for her changes.
Interestingly enough my wife's sister told her in essence the same thing about how miserable people attract misery and it affects this around them negatively. I think she was right on target with her comments. My wife has responded to her sister by pulling away from their relationship too.
Thoughts anyone?
Thanknyou gm23.
I am putting the suggestions into play. Even though my heart can't let go, I have to act as if and move forward. I sometimes wonder though if my efforts to start my GAL are true to me. What I am trying to say is, I really have no interest in going out to bars and that stuff. I went through that stage for many years before I met my wife and to be honest, was very unhappy in that life. I always wanted to get married,settle down and raise a family (what I am doing now). Being a great father and husband, is fulfilling to me.
This is a common misconception about "GAL." Somewhere along the line, a bunch of folks -- esp. the guys -- equated it with "drinking with my buddies."
Your GAL activities should be a reflection of WHO YOU ARE; things that you maybe neglected as you "lost yourself" in unhealthy co-dependency in your marriage. Some great alternatives are to coach a youth sports team, do volunteer work at something that means something to you, be a Big Brother to an underprivileged child, etc.
Some of these involve getting yourself into a strong place emotionally, first, but I think something structured, a volunteer job with someone else in charge, would do WONDERS for you right now, Johnnie.
What sorts of things, causes, activities, mean a lot to you, Johnnie?
Starsky
First of all, don't answer all of her messages if it's not necessary. Forget about the friendly banter. There is a time and place for it and now's not the time. Obviously your health is suffering because of it.
If she messages you, respond with "hey I can't talk right now, I'm out. I'll get back to you later." Then turn off the phone.
Show her you've moved on. Where is she living now?
Agree 100%
If W text you, and is not vital to respond, DON'T....
Replying ASAP shows you are waiting for her, and shows clingyness and neediness.
By not responding shows strength, courage and non neediness.
Let W desire build so she contacts you again.(if not vital to do so)
IF you need to reply, keep it basic and vague, such as "hi, got you message, been really busy, hope u are well)
You are then not opening up a conversation.
Look, this may mean nothing but my W emailed me yesterday being friendly for the first time and not regarding the kids totally. I have yet to reply, but got another email from het this morning asking if I got her mail and asking me for my thoughts. I will keep the reply basic and send in another couple of hours.
Just my 2p
GAL Man,
That is some awesome advice, and well thought out answer Johnie.
The disciple with the kids? I have a similar desire, however, I also backed off a little bit and the rewards are...amazing.
They are still respectful and polite, but I have taken time to enage more with them.
Oh GAL,
pretty sure you can say:
bloody.
Although I admire your restraint.
Does it have a different meaning in the Queens English? Like the f word?
Thank jack, really cuffed to get praise from a vet mod such as yourself.
And bloody (there I said it) means the same in the queens English LOL
Thanks GAL man, I feel much better about myself after that exercise...
Glad it helped, I am no expert by any stretch, but will try and offer constructive thoughts were I can, people can then chose what to do with it
And you found it useful
Well thought through response BTW, excellent
Now believe it and do it
GAL Man,
That is some awesome advice, and well thought out answer Johnie.
The disciple with the kids? I have a similar desire, however, I also backed off a little bit and the rewards are...amazing.
They are still respectful and polite, but I have taken time to enage more with them.
Oh GAL,
pretty sure you can say:
bloody.
Although I admire your restraint.
Does it have a different meaning in the Queens English? Like the f word?
Thank jack, really cuffed to get praise from a vet mod such as yourself.
And bloody (there I said it) means the same in the queens English LOL
Should of read chuffed (means pleased/happy over here LOL)
GAL Man,
That is some awesome advice, and well thought out answer Johnie.
The disciple with the kids? I have a similar desire, however, I also backed off a little bit and the rewards are...amazing.
They are still respectful and polite, but I have taken time to enage more with them.
Oh GAL,
pretty sure you can say:
bloody.
Although I admire your restraint.
Does it have a different meaning in the Queens English? Like the f word?
Thank jack, really cuffed to get praise from a vet mod such as yourself.
And bloody (there I said it) means the same in the queens English LOL
Should of read chuffed (means pleased/happy over here LOL)
Ok telemark.
I have been keeping my convos to a minimum with her. I have not displayed my hurt to her, when I am in her vicinity, I am upbeat whistling... You get it.
What I share ipon the board is how I am feeling. In the future I will stick to the facts only, and to ask questions.
Yes I am going to get some packing boxes today. And use faiths idea (thanks faith)
My intent is that the boxes will be for her to move out though, not me.
This is my house. I'm not the one who wants to leave the marriage, so why should I leave the house.
J
So... More macho... Is that it!
J
Confident, not arrogant. That's attractive.
Confident, not arrogant. That's attractive.
Sorry for the double post.
J1, I think you are misunderstanding our intentions, or at least my intentions. Posting here and sharing your feelings is not the issue; we all do that. Go back and look at my threads. There have been plenty of times I've just wanted to crawl in a hole and pull the top over me. But...I was able to move forward despite feeling like absolute worthless crap. Backsliding? Yep, still do it. But those times are fewer and fewer.
The concern is that you are stuck, and that, my friend, is the sure path to your own self-destruction. Every minute you dwell on your W, or what she is doing/thinking/feeling, is a minute you are not working on your own mental health and happiness. Re-read gabbysmom23's post above; she defines what an attractive man looks like. Not swaggering macho, but cool confidence. You might be falling apart inside, but don't let it show to your W (or any other woman, or your kids).
This is the hardest thing you will ever do in your life, I think. It is summoning courage in the face of all of your fears. It is putting one foot in front of the other when all you really want to do is lie down.
We all are living with the very real possibility that our marriages will not survive; that our spouses will continue to walk. Tough stuff to digest every day. My W is constantly on my mind, but I have made a promise to myself to not let that stop me from being a better man than I ever was. If she leaves, I can't - and won't - stop her. Her loss, I say.
Please do not take our responses to your posts as uncaring criticisms. We are a hurting bunch who are trying to look out for each other when it feels like nobody else will. If our words sometimes seem harsh, it is only because we do not want to see anyone who comes here get swallowed up by their own pain.
Be strong and stay strong.
Is this the question you said was not answered, b/c I was pretty certain I had.
I am wondering if a WAW, can be influenced to be a WAW, by someone else's coaching
Yes, I believe another person can be a strong influence on a W who is already having unfulfilled emotional needs which can leave her in a vulnerable place. The friend chats with her, telling her she should do whatever to find happiness.
So, does that answer your question?
The thing is.....it doesn't change things, does it?
I agree with the others. Rememeber what I've told you about a WAW needing to see a man of strength who is able to handle
her, among other things.
Every LBS has suffered the diagnosis your doctor gave you! Doctors can give you a name for everything. But, you are wanting to USE YOUR DIAGNOIS to somehow "touch" the heart of your W.
It will not work! Get this in your head, she doesn't care! She isn't the girl you M. Stop finding excuses to try to change her and cause her to want you.
You've been given the directions, but you want to do things differently. Please listen to these members who are trying to guide you.
((hugs))
just to clear something up about giving support to others here.
when i say support, i dont mean giving advice. read others threads, and simply tell them "i'm sorry you're here too, i hope things work for you"
i was terrified to give advice, but i gave support, and later found i had some light advice to offer. now i'm sure people wish i'd go away.
"because I have seen her go from a mature woman into an immature twenty something" -- if this is your attitude towards your W, then she will be able to sense this, and this is not helping you.
Is this the question you said was not answered, b/c I was pretty certain I had.
I am wondering if a WAW, can be influenced to be a WAW, by someone else's coaching
Yes,
absolutely. she'll gather opinions in the same way you do, she'll talk to her doctor, priest, friends, etc and take what she wants.
in my case i believe OM influenced my x to become a WAW and his PA.
i was terrified to give advice, but i gave support, and later found i had some light advice to offer. now i'm sure people wish i'd go away.
Been fishing lately?
Ken makes a great point.
When you are blindly running around in your own dark forest with no hope, you can still see inside other peoples forests very clearly; watching them run around as blind as you are. It does help you and I always considered it therapeutic to say the least.
Ok, so let me see if I get this straight:
A strong man:
Lives by his convictions
Looks after himself physically
Confident
Patient father
Provides for his family
Pitches in at home
Asks for help when required
Takes charge
Supportive husband
Steady
Reliable
Teaches his children
Ethical
Spiritual
Good listener
Sharp dresser
Gives a job his best effort
Who wants to add anything?
Tank you Kaffe... That is my lust of me, granted I'm a little shaky right now, but I'm woking hard on improving.....
J1, I think you are misunderstanding our intentions, or at least my intentions. Posting here and sharing your feelings is not the issue; we all do that. Go back and look at my threads. There have been plenty of times I've just wanted to crawl in a hole and pull the top over me. But...I was able to move forward despite feeling like absolute worthless crap. Backsliding? Yep, still do it. But those times are fewer and fewer.
The concern is that you are stuck, and that, my friend, is the sure path to your own self-destruction. Every minute you dwell on your W, or what she is doing/thinking/feeling, is a minute you are not working on your own mental health and happiness. Re-read gabbysmom23's post above; she defines what an attractive man looks like. Not swaggering macho, but cool confidence. You might be falling apart inside, but don't let it show to your W (or any other woman, or your kids).
This is the hardest thing you will ever do in your life, I think. It is summoning courage in the face of all of your fears. It is putting one foot in front of the other when all you really want to do is lie down.
We all are living with the very real possibility that our marriages will not survive; that our spouses will continue to walk. Tough stuff to digest every day. My W is constantly on my mind, but I have made a promise to myself to not let that stop me from being a better man than I ever was. If she leaves, I can't - and won't - stop her. Her loss, I say.
Please do not take our responses to your posts as uncaring criticisms. We are a hurting bunch who are trying to look out for each other when it feels like nobody else will. If our words sometimes seem harsh, it is only because we do not want to see anyone who comes here get swallowed up by their own pain.
Be strong and stay strong.
Starsky
Here is a great post from the archives that will hopefully help.
Here's some absolutely great advice from Greg. Thanks, Greg.
********************************
Do you feel like you can't go on? Like your world is nothing without your spouse?
Well... YOUR FEELINGS ARE DECEIVING YOU. You can go on, and you can have a great life without your spouse.
After marriage, you both come to rely on one another for many things; love, confidence, security, and many other physical, psychological, and material needs.
But, how did you survive on your own before you were married? Could you survive on your own before you were married? Are you surviving on your own now? Legitimate questions here folks.
Marriage requires a certain amount of co-dependency from each spouse as noted above. Here's the kicker: You have to learn to be independent before you can successfully be co-dependent. This is not a one-way street either, both spouses must learn to fend for themselves.
Giving your walkaway forgiveness, time, and space to develop or recapture their sense of self-worth (the soul?) and individualism is the BEST thing you can do for your troubled relationship.
And You. You need to build/maintain your own unique individualism, and be comfortable on your own before your walkaway spouse will see you in a positive light. These positive changes are what manifest into major doubts for the walkaway spouse as to whether or not they are doing the right thing by leaving you. The right thing meaning, the right thing for THEM. After all, this really is about them.
Worrying, begging, pleading, obsessing, negativity, and the list goes on, are all extremely counterproductive to your efforts. These are traits of a person who depends on other people to make them happy and get them through life. Do you want to live the rest of your life with a person who acts in these ways? Well, your walkaway spouse doesn't either. The truth is, other people can't MAKE you happy, they can only make you happier than you already are. True happiness comes from you and only you.
So, is this crisis in your life really a crisis, or an opportunity for personal growth in disguise?
People, please take care of yourselves FIRST. It will do incredible things for you and your relationship.
Peace.
G
Thank you litb.
This is awesome. This I will put on my notepad in my iPad. It is inspiring. I will read it when I need a boost
Thanks again
j
Thank Kaffe, its my list for me.
Journalling,
Ok day today, am keeping my distance from my WAW. I am still going dim. No e com, text you know. Got my dress clothes ready for my interview tomorrow, I had to dig out my dress slacks from b4 we were married, as they were to only ones I had that fit. Down from a 41 w to 36w. I was proud and commented in front of my wife... Look at this! It was an excited reaction by me, I know I shouldnt have said anything, I blew it. Picked up my contacts today, the script is not quite right, so I can use these until the modified scripts come in. I forgot how uncomfortable they are at first.
Going to pick up boxes on Friday to follow faith suggestion.
I think I will go in now and take an anxiety med and then watch tv with my wife. I so need to get a good nights sleep tonight. I will take one again tomorrow morning so that I am not dozy for the interview at 2... Wish me luck...
J1,
Every step hurts no matter how you look at it. The pain does get better im only 2 months in and I am not crying every day and my backsliding has become easier to stop. You will get to where you need to be so keep trying! If you have a bad moment or even a bad day remember you are only human. Also only worry about today I find that if I think of the future too much I make myself sick.
I also have lost a bunch of weight so much that NONE of my clothes fit. Not even my skinny clothes..
At first I couldnt eat because of the stress etc but I worked out to combat the stress. Now I am eating and sleeping but working out like 6 days a week and it helps me so much. So I guess my work outs are my medication in a sense..:)
I went to the local women's resale and found tons of clothes that were great and cheap. There are probably some near you that have men's clothes so look them up and go check them out.
Also she does notic your weight loss! My H did too so much that he commented to a mutual friend that I was losing weight to win him back. WRONG Im doing it for ME.. so your W notices but wouldnt dare tell you.. So when you look awesome do walk around in front of her if you can. Show her how happy you are in your new skin and just to be you!!!!
Going to pick up boxes on Friday to follow faith suggestion.
GOOD! With thanks to Bworl's and Starsky's support re-read what they said/agreed to. Any questions? Ask....just try to do what I outlined first. Anything outside of that, suck it up when she says anything and get out of the house as fast as possible. Then post your dilemma here as soon as you can.
First sign of strength is not caving in to her pressure. Have faith Johnnie. We will back you.
The goal here is not to be a Jerk, the goal is to show you have the strength to honor your boundary, which is "I will not live in an Open Marriage".
So basically, I'm going to get the boxes in the morning and then have them conspicuously in the house. If/when my wife asks, wht. I will respond that "I am waiting on her response regarding her A, and that I am panning in advance for if her answer is not for our marriage. I will not live in an open marriage.". Then I will leave the house. She will be packing for her trip to somethingfest and will have the weekend to mull it over.
Does that sound ok?
So, while I was taking my shower this morning, I noticed my gut is gone from all the weight loss. I know my wife was watching tv in the living room, so I put on a towel, walked to the kitchen, throughout the living room(it is on the way to the kitchen) and got a drink of water. On my way back, when I had to negotiate the gate (daycare remember) my wife took a good look at me. I think she was noticing my weight loss. Then I went back into the bathroom and got dressed.
Was that a good idea to have her take notice?
J
J1,
she has probably already noticed, even if she hadn't said anything. Strutting your stuff is one thing...but (isn't there always a but...) this kinda comes off as game playing and trying to win her back by showing off. You should be proud of looking and feeling better, but the quiet pride comes across the strongest.
One important lesson (not what you might think) is that whether this was a mistake or not, it's done and move on.
Good luck with the interview today! PMA does wonders in both R's and job interviews!
Was that a good idea to have her take notice?
Walking around semi-nude through a day-care is never a good idea.
"Walking around semi-nude through a day-care is never a good idea." 
been separated 18 months.....I am misearable....I am stuck...
I'm working out like crazy and taking vitamins and I am quite obsessed with working out and keeping myself busy at all times...can't even watch TV anymore, I have to be on the go....can't relax...I am terrified of boredome, but at the same time I think if I stop I will get depressed and "DIE!
does anyone feel this way or has felt this way?
is there a way out?
H 41
W 38
M 15 YRS
s 13
d 14
separated 02/15/2010
Living alone (split custody of the kids)
Boy that was timely, just had an hour chat with close friend who knows our sitch, she was a WAW. She echoed everything Michelle said about WAWs. Then I sent her the WAW article on the front page and she was floored. She left her husband for the same reasons as my wife is now, and she went with the affair partner and now wishes she stayed with her husband, instead of the affair partner. in her words I realize now theat he(lbs) was truly in love with me.
Hopefully you understand the importance of this coversation. A WAW told you one of the most successful tactics for making them want to be with you.
So basically, I'm going to get the boxes in the morning and then have them conspicuously in the house. If/when my wife asks, wht. I will respond that "I am waiting on her response regarding her A, and that I am panning in advance for if her answer is not for our marriage. I will not live in an open marriage.". Then I will leave the house. She will be packing for her trip to somethingfest and will have the weekend to mull it over.
Does that sound ok?
I would try to be shorter, less specific. Something like "Well, this clearly isn't working for either one of us the way things are right now, so I'm just trying to get some ducks in a row. I think we both have some big decisions to make, very soon."
But that's just me. "Less is more."
Starsky
Yeah, I felt really bad for her because she is not happy in her current relationship. She said somthing interesting that I am going to clarify with her is sounded like "I wish (Husband) tried harder... Ill fill in the blank later...
SMQ maybe im really dense... what did you mean by "Hopefully you understand the importance of this coversation. A WAW told you one of the most successful tactics for making them want to be with you."
J
J1, not to down play the conversation, but what you said above is important...
Notice... she's still coming from the WAS perspective...
"I wish HE would have tried, harder..."
She still believes, even after leaving the M to be with the OP, that it was her H's fault for not trying harder.
Yes, I understand that you can debate what I said. And it will be an awesome, intellectual exercise...
In the end, it will do nothing to get your M back.
Until your friend owns that SHE could have tried harder...
Until your W owns that SHE could try harder, only THEN will the two of you be able to consider R...
A friend of mine who's brother just went through the same sitch as I just told me... her brother's X had indicated that brother could have moved back in... but the question is... did she ASK him to move back in...? No... She puts it out there, like it was up to HIM to assume that would be OK. So... it is HIS fault...
Get it...?
Notice... she's still coming from the WAS perspective...
Yes. Understand the WAS prespective. If you haven't notice they are the ones who have their LBS's persuing them. NOT the other way around. hmmmmmmm..... They are DOing WHAT WORKS!
Notice... she's still coming from the WAS perspective...
Yes. Understand the WAS prespective.
If you haven't notice they are the ones who have their LBS's persuing them. NOT the other way around. hmmmmmmm..... They are DOing WHAT WORKS!
Wisdom, this. ^^^
Starsky
I totally get what you are saying.
So if she had said
"I wish I had given him a chance to be a better man"...
or
"I wish I had tried harder in our relationship, or wanted it to work out more"...
I guess they wouldnt be a WAW if they had that attitude though.
So now I have to identify what works to have my wife persue me...
Good thing Ill be coming home all dressed up from my interview, contacts in and all... Lets see if she takes notice...
Atleast I can enjoy looking in Picture mirrors on the way home...
DAMN!
"So now I have to identify what works to have my wife persue me..."
Wrong. You do what you do for YOU. Not to have her pursue you. If you're only doing things based on what you THINK she wants, the changes won't be real AND they won't be for life.
Never change your life FOR someone else. If those changes are things you recognize are good changes for you, then great. But that's when they're for you.
If you think you look good, then great! Show off your swagger. If your W notices that, consider that a plus, but not the primary benefit.
"Wrong. You do what you do for YOU. Not to have her pursue you. If you're only doing things based on what you THINK she wants, the changes won't be real AND they won't be for life."
This is a big and one of the most important shifts to make. Great advice MB.
Agreeing with what Mr. Bond said above...
and...
I never really bought too strongly into this whole strutting around dressed to the nines idea.
I think women like seeing a man who is well taken care of, but I don't think they particularly are attracted to a man who they think is just showing off.
REGARDLESS, I DO strongly believe that your attitude and how you carry yourself is FAR, FAR more significant than what you are wearing or how you dress.
You're focusing on the SUPERFICIAL.
That's NEVER winning your wife back.
Instead of worrying about whether you are dressed right or smelling right, get back to work on YOU. You STILL worry too much about her, and you are still completely UNCONFIDENT in yourself.
I'm fairly certain that she can smell that like a shark smells blood in the water. Regardless of how nice you look.
And as for the whole boxes thing, I think maybe you've missed the point.
THIS IS NOT A SKIT. You are not putting on a performance for her. If that's why you're doing it, forget it and don't do it.
How can we get you to LEAVE this mode of trying to TRICK her into loving you, and get you to MOVE on with becoming a man she'd be a fool not to love?
Again Johnnie...SUPERFICIAL crap will only get you crap in return.
If you're ready to make a decision, and that decision might be either leaving or telling her she has to leave, then you would naturally start accumulating moving boxes.
You would NOT scatter them around the house (because you're wanting to be SURE she sees them - THAT is a performance), you'd start stacking them up somewhere natural.
She might see them. She might not. It might take awhile for her to see them, BUT WHO CARES? They're not there for HER benefit, they are there for YOURS.
If she asks why you got them you say something like..
"Well, I haven't heard what your plans are, and I have no intention of staying in a relationship that involves more than two people."
PERIOD.
Walk (or run if you have to) away to avoid any further talk. Go for a drive, go shopping, go visit a friend, go workout, ANYTHING that takes you away.
That's MY take on this Johnnie.
Blessings,
Bill
First off I was dressed up for an interview. Believe me with my good clothes and contacts, I got many girls heads turned in the office. I aced that interview, not because of my skill set or resume. Everyone was pretty evenly matched there, I nailed it because I used my charm to win over the 3 female interviewers. God... I needed that pick me up. When I came home, I didn't strut, my ego boost from a day of female attention said it all. I am the alpha male. If she can't see it and doesent plan on working on our R then her loss. Im going to turn the tables on her now and she can peruse me, she just doesn't know it yet. Then when she is ready to work, we stand a chance. I'll be hitting the gym and sticking to my diet everyday. She won't know what hit her.
Thanks Bill for helping me to see the point. You are right. I get it.
"So now I have to identify what works to have my wife persue me..."
Wrong. You do what you do for YOU. Not to have her pursue you. If you're only doing things based on what you THINK she wants, the changes won't be real AND they won't be for life.
Of course he wants his wife pursing him. She is pursuing another man right now. It's obvious what she wants. There is no "thinking" about that.
The question is "identify what works."
Why does momma hide the cookies on the top shelf?
First off I was dressed up for an interview. Believe me with my good clothes and contacts, I got many girls heads turned in the office. I aced that interview, not because of my skill set or resume. Everyone was pretty evenly matched there, I nailed it because I used my charm to win over the 3 female interviewers. God... I needed that pick me up. When I came home, I didn't strut, my ego boost from a day of female attention said it all. I am the alpha male. If she can't see it and doesent plan on working on our R then her loss. Im going to turn the tables on her now and she can peruse me, she just doesn't know it yet. Then when she is ready to work, we stand a chance. I'll be hitting the gym and sticking to my diet everyday. She won't know what hit her.
Great attitude Johnnie. Your not Alpha yet though. You have to control your emotions and LEAD your Wife by standing up for what you know is right and have the conviction to follow through regardless of the end result. A MAN, especially Alpha, KNOWS and asks for what he wants; if he doesn't get it, he walks away, lets go, and has no regret because he is true to himself.
I love your attitude here and this is how you need to walk the rest of your life. Whether it's with your W or someone else. Your kids benefit from this attitude as well.
You are getting this Johnnie, slowly, but I'm seeing glimpses. You are getting a wealth of info from some really experienced posters.
This is what my true intentions have been all along.
I express my feelings here and get lambasted for them but, do not do that to my W.
I will not have her disrespect me and my kids. I will do what is right and give her a clear message that her lack of an answer is an answer and that it is not within my boundaries, so, it's time to go.... For her.
First though, I will plant the seed, just the boxes
I searched,,, I couldnt find them
i'll have to agree about the boxes. personally, i wouldn't use them. strikes me as a cheap prop. too easy for it to backfire.
and congratulations on the interview. its a great feeling.
the thing about attitudes is that its such a fine line between confidence and arrogance and acting yet the results are vastly different.
true confidence has an attractive aura, its not something others see but they sense it. the man with confidence doesnt think about whether he's confident, the same way he doesnt think about whether he has a mouth - he knows its there so theres no reason to think about it. the act of thinking about confidence shows a lack of confidence. confidence is not 'hey-look-at-me" loud, doesnt act with the intention to draw attention to itself.
acting as if you have confidence is walking around with your chest puffed out, looking down your nose, trying to come across as aloof. and is cheap and unattractive. its gold colored plastic.
arrogance is overconfidence without being able to back it up, this is not only unattractive but repulsive.
my point is, that you need to be sincere in your actions and attitudes.
make yourself better for yourself. wear contacts for yourself. dress nice for yourself (and your interview).
take care of yourself not to get her attention, but because you have self-worth and you deserve to take care of yourself.
doing something to gain her reaction will come across as cheap and will actually push her away.
Very well-said, Ken.
Starsky
That's a cheap shot at Bond, McQueen.
No it wasn't. Lets not convince Johnny to be STUCK.
***** new thread started *****
***** see I am so lost... Someone please help me 4 *****
Very well-said, Ken.
I agree.