Well I'm here again.
Have survived previous divorce which was irretrievable due to infidelity of ex-wife with one of my friends and work colleagues. Rebuilt myself and was happy with my lot. Lo and behold ran into an extraordinary woman..........
New and fantastic relationship going extremely well until 5 weeks ago when suddenly for no apparent reason the "ILYBINILWY" spouts forth.
Much talking ensued. No reasons available. She is unable to give any at all and doesn't seem interested in the introversion to find some. Is equivocal about counselling as she doesn't believe anyone can influence a feeling, they just happen.
We had everything going for us. 5 weeks ago she was unpacking my last boxes, grinning and hugging me as my DR and DB books were placed in the charity shop donation bag. She was posting everywhere "cheers to the next 50yrs" and we were planning timing of kids and round houses to live in. We nearly melted the bed at the Ice Hotel we were so hot. 1 week later, like a light went out there was nothing. One day perfect, the next disaster. No I love you, no touch, no eye gazing, no intimacy. I tolerated it for 2 weeks. Then I confronted her and she said she hadn't even realised. Week 3 she said she had used the retrospectoscope and there was something wrong but she didn't know what. We just "lost the spark. "Weeks 4 & 5 included lots of together time, lots of talking but no progress. Last night we broke up. She still wanted to be tactile. She seemed a little upset when I said I'd arranged house viewings and would start packing, and reiterated that I didn't need to move out so quickly. She was extremely tactile this morning, many mixed signals after the quite blunt and serious discussion about why things were over. More eye contact in 12 hrs than the last 5 weeks from her. I asked her what she was looking for and she said "nothing."
My problems are as follows:
(i)Do I move out quick or slow? Will the short sharp shock of me not being here be beneficial or do I stick around to see if I can surreptitiously change things.
(ii) How do you help someone realise that relationships require effort. She feels that as it has been effortless up until now that the feelings should just be there without any.
(iii) Do I just cut my losses and forget her, or battle for someone that I felt an amazing connection with, that I cohabit with effortlessly and has the same life views as me.
(iv) Do I get on with counselling and get her to come in the hope that she'll open her mind rather than be so skeptical?
(v) How do you deal with someone who says "forever is just a minute at a time" and seems to think that forever today is just that. It might not be forever by tomorrow.
I actually truly love this woman, despite her flaws and we were so perfect in terms of living together, raising kids, laughing and talking.
Oh and I have goddamn comedy tickets for Saturday and have no idea whether we should still go. I was going to take her to the bar we met for dinner and then onto the club in my efforts to avoid getting to break up point. Never made it.
I'd forgotten how much of a rollercoaster all this is.
We just had a minor chat about the practicalities of living together as housemates. She said "I'm only 80% sure it's completely over."
I've been friendly all day, offered to pick her up when her car wasn't ready from MOT, and offered her a lift to her party as she's late.
She just gave me a huge hug and big smile and said "thank you for just being you"
Well 20% hope and I've obviously managed to hide all the ridiculous whirlpool of feelings inside me. Was crying only 15 mins before she arrived.
Today I am struggling and really need support.
I am truly torn between the go or stay. It is her house, so I feel obliged to make moves to go. I am viewing a house this morning, having lunch with friends and then have a work meeting this afternoon.
Everyone I speak to is pretty much saying get out of there and move on, if she decides she loves you after all she'll come get you. I'm not sure that's the right tack. My memories of DB before were that you should dig in your heels and not leave until forced to do so. I made that mistake before, and not keen to repeat it, but it's so hard in the face of people constantly telling me to get out.
Haven't seen her since our brief and very pleasant interlude yesterday afternoon and I miss her like crazy. She was very complementary about my new haircut, and I'm pleased to report another 2lb off on the scales this morning. Relationship break ups are good for diets!
I wonder if she will be home for dinner this evening or if it will be the usual Fri night at her best friend's house.
She admits she isn't sure what to do about anything for the best at the moment, including our "date" that had been prearranged for Saturday, dinner tonight, how to live together or even what to wear.
Did she ask you to leave, or are you taking it upon yourself to do so?
She ended the relationship, although we've both talked about that happening in the last 2 months. I feel obliged to leave as it is not a joint owned property. It is her house, that I moved into.
I came home with boxes today. Was very upbeat and positive about my day seeing houses and work stuff and seeing friends. She looked very sad.
She has agreed to relationship counselling to try and figure out what went wrong. I don't think she has any intention of repairing the relationship though. I think it will be difficult as there doesn't seem to be one of those common triggers. We communicate well, live together well, no OP, same life views etc. No idea what happened.
So she's 80 % sure. Is she a computer like the one on jeopardy?
No she is not and I believe she is toyig with you right now and you are jumping through the hoops. This will not allow her to respect you. Dont be so available for her at this point.
You have to let her think that you are ok with her decision for now.
9
Had a decent no relationship talk or pressure hour sat just chatting about our day. Now separately in bed.
Will have to see what advice comes from her mother on Sunday, and what comes from counselling which she has agreed to book. Still think she's already mentally checked out from this relationship though.
Must be positive, patient and prepared!
Wow, lees. What a story. You know, I'm really beginning to dislike W. Us M aren't all that great, I know, but come on! Is the gov't putting something in the water? Why is every W I know flaking out on their M right now?
I'm no one to give advice. I'm stuck in this DB thing with a whacked out W because we have a kid and a 15 yr. history and it ain't easy. Knowing what I know now, if I started w/ a new W and she pulled something like that on me up front in the R, I'd be out of there so fast it would be like she never knew me - this just isn't worth going through twice.
Not a good day today. Lost it this morning & cried & told her I love her. She held me & cried too. Said she would give counselling a go. Doesn't think it can be fixed but will see. Wants us not to gave what we had before all this but stronger, better, bigger & longer relationship.
Still lots of dichotomy there.
Had a nice day at home together, both got work done in same room, tidied kitchen together and I'm just back from night at comedy with a friend. She is staying over with one of her mates. She offered and did my hair before I went which was lovely.
I miss her like crazy. I hate separate beds, rooms and the loss of touch and text and calls.
I don't think the usual "dark" philosophies work here, no idea how to go Feds except wait for counselling and stay pleasant.
Answers on a postcard please...........
Difficult day again today. She has been gardening all day with her Mum. Her best mate has just fallen off her horse and needs to go to hospital and she didn't turn to me at all for support. That hurts like hell.
She's just driven off with her Mum to go and see what is happening and didn't want me to go with her.
She said we would talk and play scrabble later on, but I know that any chance of time together today is now totally scrapped. She'll spend the evening at her mates house, go to work in the morning, not book any counselling as she's busy and our relationship will be even more down the pan that it already is (which I didn't think was possible already)
I'm hurting a lot from this, back in an empty house, with a few boxes of my stuff packed feeling totally in limbo. I can't concentrate on work, no boxes left to do packing in. I can't even move out as I don't have anywhere just yet to go to and all my mates are busy with mother's day.
This is so damn confusing.
Had a lovely 2 games of scrabble and a bottle of wine together. I was messed in the head, cried on her and asked if we could share her bed for a "last time." She said of course yes we could share a bed, but why was it "the last time." I said because we've broken up, everything like that is therefore a last time. She cried at that.
I haven't packed anymore boxes. She asked me yesterday after we had dinner together if I wanted to share her bed again. I did. She stroked my arm this morning as she woke, and kissed me on the forehead before she left. It felt good. We are going to first counselling tomorrow lunchtime and I am petrified. I feel like although it will give me somekind of closure, it could also seriously spell the end of us, and I will have to move out and move on as quickly as possible.
I am just such a whirlwind of emotion and actions, despite my best efforts at self control, which I usually have a lot of.
Guess I'll just wait and see.
lees,
Remember your DBing. Get control of yourself and get focused. Do what only what works, don't do what doesn't. I'm thinking is she's willing to let you share her bed and go to counseling with you, you have lots of opportunity here to make some really great progress. Perhaps reread DR and try to get a plan together.
Best of luck to you, lees. I'm pulling for you!
lees,
If there's one thing that you will hear often in these forums, it is 'dont cry'. I know it is very hard to do. Hey i cried for a week calling my wife up before i turned off the faucets.
crying for women signifies weakness and women don't like weak guys.
Right now you are on an emotional rollacoaster to nowhere land. Get off that wagon and start thinking and acting objectively.
It is very good that you guys are getting to see a counselor. But be strong and act strong.
Lees: Dont be that guy that is looking for sympathy to save the relationship. It usually doesnt work and if it does , it is not long lasting.
She wants to see a strong man that she wants to be with. I am a very sensetive person and that has cost me; especially in my wife's eyes. Its good to be sensetive to some issues , but ultimately, you need to be strong one and the person she wants to share her life with.
Please dont do any of that weak a$$es stuff again. If you need to cry, leave the room until you compose yourself.
9
Seperate rooms last night. She cried a lot about how intense her work is at the moment, and how she didn't have any time to think. I offered to go away for a few days so she had space but she said she didn't want that. She's confused. We've broken up but we're still sharing a bed, and having a hug when she gets in the door. I said that was because I was trying to preserve at least a modicum of intimacy until she's decided whether she wants to invest in this relationship or not. She said intimacy for her is conversation, I told her for me it is touch. She is confused that I have packed up a lot of stuff on one hand, and told people we've broken up, but on the other hand am still wanting that intimacy and to fix things. I said touche! I want to be realistic. And realistic right now is that I'm leaving as that's what she effectively asked for when we split up, and is the likely outcome irrespective of counselling. Packing boxes is reminding me of what is happening to, and making it real in my head.
She came home late from work after I'd gone to bed and came and gave me a hug and peck on the cheek and asked why I hadn't had dinner (I had in fact) and if I wanted her to climb into bed with me. I said no, that's OK, I've eaten and I'm OK, there's no need to worry.
A good sound night's sleep, a hug and peck on the cheek this morning and a "see you at lunch" when I was still pretending to be asleep.
We'll see what counselling holds. I am scared, but it must be done.
Lees.....
So...
Do tell about the time between this......
Have survived previous divorce which was irretrievable due to infidelity of ex-wife with one of my friends and work colleagues. Rebuilt myself and was happy with my lot.
And this....
Lo and behold ran into an extraordinary woman..........
What changed with you ?
About 9 months between.
I never went looking for anyone, I didn't expect it to happen. It just did.
Counselling was a disaster. The session itself went really well. The counsellor picked her up on all her unrealistic expectations and I learned a thing or two as well. She independently agreed it would be a good thing to continue. Then she was unable to find any time in the next 2.5 weeks she could actually attend. In the end the counsellor said she couldn't work with us as we needed to be able to attend regularly for safe counselling. I agreed and left without talking to her.
She chased me in the street. I said she had demonstrated the importance of our friendship/relationship in her final actions. That if she wanted to sort it out, she could book it when she can fit it in. Her answer was "I have a statuatory requirement for this election work, I have to be there. The counsellor clearly wants someone who can attend every Tuesday or every Thursday." I said "no she didn't. She wanted someone who could attend once a week."
I went home, packed a bag and left. Now staying with friends.
She txt to ask if I had left, and say she had no idea what had happened today. I replied with "Hope you have a good time at the show tonight. I found today's counselling in the main extremely positive, but the last 2 minutes demonstrated in actions rather than words how important our friendship/relationship is to you, and how much time and effort you are willing to commit."
Watch this space. I suspect her reply will be something along the lines of "I am elections officer, you know how stressful it is, you know i don't have any time at the moment"
About 9 months between
I never went looking for anyone, I didn't expect it to happen. It just did.
Who were you during that 9 months ?
Who did you become ?
How long did your prior relationship last ?
How long have you been in this one ?
I was little different than I am now, except for living alone rather than in a house with a fabulous woman.
I'm not any different - even she has said that.
Prior relationship was 3 yrs - she had the affair just a very short time after we got married.
This one only about a year in total. I know it is short. But I do know the difference betweene something important and the average 6 month fling.
I've booked another counselling session in the hope she might attend. I've sent her an email explaining why I got so upset and acknowledging that work commitments are huge for her at the moment.
I have 2 more house viewings on Monday and Tuesday after the weekend of working nights. Not much more else I can do after that except move out and drop the rope and hope she realises what a great opportunity she's missed and someone else will have I guess.
I miss her so much.
This is such a [censored] situation. I know she has not meant any malice in this situation, she just didn't know what to do when she started feeling out of love with me. And when she finally responded to me asking, it seems to have been too late.
Now we are both making token efforts in something that was fantastic, amazing and had all the tick boxes to really go the distance but is probably now too far gone to resolve because we both took our foot off the relationship pedal at the same time.
I hate it. Hate it. HATE IT. Such a wasted opportunity.
lees, buddy, take it easy. I know you're hurting, but as everyone on here reminds us, it's not over until we decide it is. My WAW has been continually reinforcing the fact that we are done, yet contradicts herself when she let's her guard down. You just never know until it's over. We can believe what they tell us.
By all your post, it sounds like you have plenty of opportunity. Chin up, bro. Get yourself together and get DBing. This isn't the end of your life, it's the beginning!
We can believe what they tell us.
Sorry, that you CAN'T believe what they tell us. Standard DB principle: Don't believe anything they say and only 50% of what we see.
But exactly what does "get myself together" mean? The strong thing to do here would be to say:
"Thanks, but no thanks, I'm done with limbo. I'm moving out on Tue next week."
My issue with that is that it puts us in seperate cities, with no contact except for the actual moving of my stuff. I see the point of NC - it isn't to save the relationship, it's to save the LBS. Possibly not the right tack when she's saying she's only 80% sure it's over and agreeing to counselling.
Otherwise I'm doing the same work, social activities, housework etc as I was before we met. Possibly a little more work pressure at the moment, but that's the only difference, along with the current house hunting for somewhere else to live.
Is it ever possible to get someone to read something without them knowing you want them to read it? I don't have an ally to deliver it for me unfortunately. I don't have anyone I can turn to from her family or friends that I think would be interesting in helping to save our relationship rather than view it as an unfair manipulation.
But exactly what does "get myself together" mean?
I've booked another counselling session in the hope she might attend. I've sent her an email explaining why I got so upset and acknowledging that work commitments are huge for her at the moment.
Not like this....
Yourself....define...yourself
You do things for YOU, not in hopes of anything other than you becoming a better person throughout the process. You cannot put any hope into "convincing" her of anything.
Once you can work on you, then your focus changes.
What was her deal before you met ?
Where was she at in life ?
Previous relationship just failed ?
There is little back ground here Lees, would you mind filling us in more ?
Is it ever possible to get someone to read something without them knowing you want them to read it? I don't have an ally to deliver it for me unfortunately. I don't have anyone I can turn to from her family or friends that I think would be interesting in helping to save our relationship rather than view it as an unfair manipulation.
Why you would WANT anyone else in your relationship ?
Such a wasted opportunity
Only if YOU waste it Lees....
Only if YOU waste it Lees....
Agreed Mach1.
The strong thing to do here would be to say:
"Thanks, but no thanks, I'm done with limbo. I'm moving out on Tue next week."
lees, my question is, if you want to be together, why are you moving out? What is it YOU want? Why is it this the "strong" thing to do? She is the WAW, but it seems like you are helping her and then you complain about the way you are treated.
That's what I mean about "Get yourself together." Step up here and start doing things for you and you alone. Do what you want. Take care of yourself first and let you WAW worry about herself. Go to counseling - that's great, but go for yourself. Don't go "hoping" your W will mysteriously join you and everything will be ok.
And cut the covert stuff. It never works. It's sneaky and unappreciated. Plus, as Mach1 says, you are then introducing other elements into your R - there are enough there already. The idea is to remove unneeded elements.
Such a wasted opportunity
Only if YOU waste it Lees....
Exactly the point. Get busy.
I am busy. I work a 50 hr week. I am working towards exams for the last time (thank heavens). I go running. I see my friends. I socialise. I play music. I have been staying with friends for last 5 days, she doesn't know where, or what I am doing. I let her know I was safe and when I would be back, and told her I'd booked counselling as I would find it beneficial and she could come if she liked.
She has moved her work commitments in order to come to counselling. This is a big positive. She also stated how positive she found the last session.
My previous is a 3yr relationship which ended in marriage and then fell apart because a few weeks after getting back from honeymoon the XW was sleeping with one of my best mates and my work colleague. I fought hard for that one too initially, but they rode off into the sunset eventually, and I decided I didn't want her in the end if she could exhibit that kind of behaviour with no remorse. We divorced, which I found very difficult as I've always believed that marriage is for life and you don't just give up when it hits a rocky patch. But she obviously didn't have the same views in the end, despite spouting them ad nauseum to me before we tied the knot. I never got any other feedback from her about what was missing in our relationship. I have had 3 other long term relationships of between 3 and 5 yrs which finished on good terms as we ended up in different stages of life with different ideals to follow. I am still friends with these exs.
Her previous is a 10yr relationship and a few 6 month ones since. She was single for about 8 months before we met.
We have broken up. She broke up with me. I am living in HER house. It is not a joint house. She owns the deeds, pays the mortgage. I have no claim on it (I own my own property but it is 400 miles away). I find it difficult to stay on that basis, although I think as long as we are attending counselling together I will endeavour to do so.
Prior to meeting we are both in similar stages of life. Careers gone well, decent jobs, financially secure, want to settle down and have a family. That is both our deals.
And now, I have the joys of night shifts until Monday morning.
Awesome that she's going to counseling, that's a good sign. I may have said this already, but like my DB Coach always says, look for the small signs. That's a pretty good one.
I was thinking of her being only 80% sure she wanted out. Reminded me of the old Pareto Principle - or 80/20 rule - where 80% of the effects come from only 20% of the causes. If she's only 80% ready to leave, then focus on the 20% that causing her to feel this way. A 20% change isn't all that much, when you think about it.
I was thinking of her being only 80% sure she wanted out. Reminded me of the old Pareto Principle - or 80/20 rule - where 80% of the effects come from only 20% of the causes. If she's only 80% ready to leave, then focus on the 20% that causing her to feel this way. A 20% change isn't all that much, when you think about it.
Absolutely. I was so chuffed when the counsellor asked how sure she was and she gave reasons of "not feeling in love" which turns out mainly to be about desire, and "not seeing a future for us together anymore" and couldn't think of anything else. The counsellor said "Is that all? That's not much for 80% sure and can all be fixed." I wanted to jump up and shout "YES!"
LOL!
I've learned to not always be "right" in this sitch - essentially keeping my big trap shut. But, I would be a liar if I didn't admit it feels so GREAT when others say for me what it is I really want to say.
I'm actually smiling and laughing at that post lees! I have faith you are gonna be ok.
I hope so.
It has been really tough the last 48 hrs being away from home and her. I miss her like a limb. I really miss the excitement of finishing work after a night shift and driving home knowing I got to snuggle into bed with her whilst she was still in that really cute dozyness. And having her come and wake me up by climbing into bed with a kiss and cup of tea to get me up for work. Now I just finish work and wanser out to the car, don't care if I'm late or not and drive home slowly because I don't have anything except an empty bed to look forwards to.
Having her made everything seem so much easier, troubles so much more bearable as we faced them together.
I so want this to work out but don't know how.
Do I continue to cook meals for her or just eat alone. Do I still do both of our washing and ironing, or just do my own. Do I still clean her car when I do mine, or just do mine.
I don't want to push her away. She's already commented on not liking the moving boxes, and why am I giving her mixed signals saying I want to fix things, but am still looking at houses. Will she interpret me not doing any stuff for her as a negative?
It's going to be a killer going home tomorrow morning. Knowing she's there, being in the same house and not being able to touch her or kiss her or tell her how I feel about her. And another whole week till the next counselling session where I get to hear what is really in her head.
Ho hum. Here's hoping at least tonight's night shift passes pleasantly.
Well today is clearly another day of me feeling totally unimportant in the gf life.
Came home to not even an acknowledgement. I said "Hi" after eventually going into the kitchen where she was. She said "How was work?" I said busy, and went to bed. She came up and said "oh, are you sleeping in here? I've been sleeping in here (spare room). Sleep well." Then she went out, apprently to a BBQ picnic according to facebook.
I just had to get up and feed her cats because they were driving me nuts every 10 mins for the last 2 hours since dinnnertime. She isn't home, hasn't been home.
An hour to go till work.
I am getting very tired of being totally unimportant
((((((((((((((((Hugs)))))))))))))))
Well that was a really rubbish night shift at work and now I've got a banging headache and am trying to deicde what to do with myself for the next couple of hours. Think she's coming home later from work and wanted to "catch up" or something.
I think reality will be that she will go to the pub afterwards and not rock up home till much later.
I am feeling rubbish and have a banging head, but am desperate to see her. It's been about 6 days now since we've had a conversation of any kind. I'm beginning to think I've blown it by intentionally giving her space. She seems to have just drifted even further away and we have become even more like housemates.
At least the house I went to look at today was nice. There is hope for moving should I have to.
I really don't know what to do to sort this out. Just have to wait for counselling next week I guess. And take painkillers.
I'm beginning to think I've blown it by intentionally giving her space.
Ask those LBSs who persued the WAWs how they made out.
Almost every new poster states they di the begging, pleading, chasing, etc thing in their first post.
Giving them their spece in counterintuitive. Stop leading with your feelings.
Letting someone live their life freely is the greatest act of love.
lees, you sound has if you have a case of depression.
please look into that with you IC.
get A little bit stronger everyday.
Detach with love. That is how isn't it. I know the theory, just so damned difficult to put into practice.
Let her make her own decisions in her own good time.
Change my own behaviour in the meantime.
I'm trying. That's why I vent on here, difficult to vent other places due to my weird hours and friends that are geographically distant or working more normal ones.
I'm not depressed. Just in a [censored] place in my relationship and can't get it out of my head when I'm not at work.
Almost every new poster states they di the begging, pleading, chasing, etc thing in their first post.
That's how I ran my WAW right out the door!
Well an interesting evening in the end. She came home, we had dinner together and about 30 mins chatter about the day. Then she said "we can talk if you like but I'm still very angry."
So with my recently acquired Mars and Venus knowledge I sat and listened, and prompted, and listened, and prompted.
She was changing her mind about working on our relationship during the counselling session apparently. Was becoming more of a realistic idea to work at. Now she isn't so sure after our argument at the end. She's angry both at me for what was said in the street, and at the counsellor for not being able to accomodate her election schedule and saying she couldn't work with us if we couldn't attend regularly.
She thinks I was cruel to mention babies in our argument after counselling last week, as she has had 2 miscarriages in the past. It was part of an angry spouting forth on my behalf, mostly about her work being more important than me, our relationship, or indeed anything else when she couldn't find time to attend a second appointment. When she chased me in the street I told her she could keep her damn elections and hoped they would give her the lifelong happiness, love, affection, support and children that she seeks.
Tried to keep my disappointment out of it and just listen though. Said she understands my point of view, and that it's natural for me to be so insecure after being told she doesn't love me anymore. But still thinks I'm cruel, and she'll still be putting the election in front of anything bar major accident or family death, a mere counselling appt is not worth jeapordising her job over.
I didn't feel heard by her but it seems she did, as she said she felt less angry for talking about it. A small part of me is pleased she is hurting and angry, partly as I think it does her good to feel a bit of what she's dished out (selfish and vindictive I know), and partly because any emotion is better than the apathy I was recieving before.
Guess I have a choice here. Drop my expectation that counselling needs to be as highly prioritised for her as it is for me, or walk away. I suppose if there were a major incident at work I'd be missing a counselling appt for it!
Oh totally forgot to mention the funniest bit of all. When she came home after the argument and I'd packed my bags and gone to a friends house, she had 5 mins to get ready to go out to a show with her Mum and the cat stood and peed up her leg at the door lol.
I had to stop myself laughing at that in the middle of our serious chat! Little beggar, but he's got timing!
Lees,
I know you are hurting but a few things in your post stood out at me:
..........and she'll still be putting the election in front of anything bar major accident or family death, a mere counselling appt is not worth jeapordising her job over.
At the moment jobs are pretty hard to come by here as you know. I assume she has a mortgage to pay, whether you live there or not. The election is 5th May is it not? In the over all scheme of things that is not a long time. Be patient.
She thinks I was cruel to mention babies in our argument after counselling last week, as she has had 2 miscarriages in the past. It was part of an angry spouting forth on my behalf, mostly about her work being more important than me, our relationship, or indeed anything else when she couldn't find time to attend a second appointment. When she chased me in the street I told her she could keep her damn elections and hoped they would give her the lifelong happiness, love, affection, support and children that she seeks.
Ok, so you listened and prompted. Did you validate at all anything she said? I think that if you DID say the above then that is pretty unkind. You have to remember you are carrying the baggage of a very recent failed M that caused you much hurt.
She needs to realise that that may cause you to have a short fuse sometimes.
She was changing her mind about working on our relationship during the counselling session apparently. Was becoming more of a realistic idea to work at. Now she isn't so sure after our argument at the end. She's angry both at me for what was said in the street, and at the counsellor for not being able to accomodate her election schedule and saying she couldn't work with us if we couldn't attend regularly.
OK, so wait until after the elections and then get regular appointments set up. C'mon, you are moving too fast and ricocheting back and forth. Why don't you ask her for an amnesty until the elections are over.....and an assurance that after that she will work at the C side of things with you.
To me it sounds like there is some hope there that this R will work, but you keep destroying opportunities by wanting your results now! Or maybe you are so afraid of getting hurt again you are pushing this R in to being a self fulfilling prophecy of a failure? Please slow it all down. Breathe.
Patience is not my strong point, it is true.
I did validate, and I apologised. She spent a long time offloading about work. I bit my tongue every time I wanted to talk about my day, or how I felt.
The thing I am really struggling with at the moment is that she isn't validating anything I say, and doesn't seem to be making any effort. I feel like I am running out of steam doing all the work all the time. It is all very one sided. I am trying to taking the positive bits from yesterday's discussion though - she was thinking about working on the relationship, and we do still manage to sit comfortably and talk together, and have a laugh together. I managed to not initiate any relationship talk - she did that. I didn't touch her, I didn't feel bad about going to bed seperately. No boundaries crossed by me.
Feeling positive today. She booked tickets for another music festival I want to go to as well whilst I was staying away and I asked if she minds me tagging along by txt (she was staying away from home last night with work). She sent a very nice little txt msg saying of course not, and she'll see me tonight when she gets back from work, and sleep well.
I got loads of work done on dissertation last night, the only negative so far today is that I can't mow the lawn as it's raining.
I have just procrastinated for the last 2.5 hrs by reading the first half of Lori Gottlieb's book "Mr Good Enough." In absolute stitches, funniest thing I've read in ages. And full of very salient points about dating and relationships. Wish my ex would read it!
lees
great attitude today! keep the good vibes going.
Wish my ex would read it!
You can't make people do things you want them to do.
What you can do is live what you have learned, when she is intrigued by your strange happiness, you then can share with her the information.
With current circumnstances I don't think that will ever happen.
She does seem a bit intrigued by what I am doing and where I am going, but I think it is just in a friendly small talk kind of fashion. We do that quite well.
I'm not sure she is capable of understanding how her words and actions might impact on me, or being able to put herself in my shoes in the way that I'm trying so hard to do for her.
We are living in a house as friends, and I think that is exactly what she wants right now. She hasn't asked me to leave yet, so I assume that's what she wants.
The positive start to the day is allowing me to cope with it though. She came into my room this morning and smiled at me (or possibly just the cat) with the cat sitting on my chest for a tummy rub. She asked if I wanted to finish off her cup of tea and left it on the bedside table. Then she left and shouted "Have a good day, get your dissertation done! Bye." from the door. First time she's shouted anything from the door in a while. And that was the beginning of all the problems - that she stopped shouting "I love you" on her way out.
Must be patient. Await counselling on Monday - maybe more answers about how she's feeling in regard to our non-relationship then.
Keeping positive.
Reasons I am a fantastic catch:
Intelligent
Fiercely loyal
Reliable
Committed (without the psychiatric connotations)
Logical
Want kids
Honest
Good career
Financially solvent
Lots of common sense
Laid back but can scrub up well and behave when needed
Not dog ugly
Musical
Creative
Good at DIY
Grow my own veggies given the chance
Can cook well
Enjoy lots of hobbies
Reasonably fit
Enjoy all kinds of travel
More than computer literate
Good command of language
Can score 400 at scrabble
Not averse to housework or ironing
Have just the right handful of good friends
Own my own property (albeit too far away for me to live in at the moment)
Now who wants me?!? If she doesn't I'm sure others will.
You left out Confident.
Without confidence all ohter things mean zilch.
I'm sure it's was just and oversight.
You left out Confident.
Without confidence all ohter things mean zilch.
I'm sure it's was just and oversight.
I'd say given the length of the list it is a given!
Love the list lee, GREAT attitude!
lol confident definitely. And yes I know, sometimes a bit overly so
Struggling just now though. Know she's due home soon. Have really REALLY strong urge to go and sweep her up into my arms and kiss her when she comes through the door.
Know I can't
I dunno. Would you normally do that if everything was good? Are you to the point where you can act "as if" and do something like that? Sometimes I wonder if I'da done more of that, I wouldn't be having the problems I'm having today.
Not saying do it, but how do you know that's something you shouldn't do?
I would have definitely done that if things were good. We always used to meet at the door for a big cuddle and kiss. But a few weeks ago she said it was muddying the water too much as it was a couple thing to do, and we're not a couple.
I held my line though and didn't. She came in and asked about my day (I made souffle for the first time, and it was a success!), she commented on the pic of them I posted on FB and then we had a tiny bit of small talk and I kissed her on the forehead with a brief run of my hand through her hair and went to bed whilst she finished her bourbon.
Slipped up this morning though. She was meant to be up at 0430 to drive down south for work and I could hear her alarm going off in the other room repeatedly. Eventually I got up and stood at the open door and said with a wry grin "'surname' if you don't get up right now I will get in there with you!" She mumbled and I repeated it a bit louder standing by the side of the bed. She woke up and I told her her alarm had been going off for ages and she apologised profusely and I gave her a hand to pull up out of bed before going back.
Before she left she came in to say goodbye, have a good evening (staying at a buddy's house for catch up in the 11hrs between my shifts) and was stroking the purring cat lying on my chest. She asked why I was awake, and I said I'd had bad dreams and was lying there wondering if she'd left for work yet or not as all the cats seemed to be in my room. I grabbed her hand after she said have a good evening and said "you too. I love you." She gave me a kiss on the forehead and left.
The weird thing is, the friendliness, the friendly touch, the friendly peck on the forehead or cheek has never disappeared from her. Just the intimate romantic one. The one that says I want to be your life partner, not just a good friend. The one that says I know you intimately, every nook and cranny.
I don't know how to get that back. She's clearly more settled and happier whilst we are sleeping in seperate rooms.
Just hope the MC can do something on Monday to help her decide to reconcile. I think if we have a common goal, a common plan, then we're both the kind of people that are determined and hard working and will get there.
This is new territory for me. Last time I went pretty much straight to NC and then to divorce.
I have no idea how to handle this. Do I pull away or do I start to encourage touch and couple type behaviour? I'm struggling to find objective evidence of which is better. Sleeping seperate has settled her down a bit. But she didn't recoil to me kissing her forehead and often asks to sit on the sofa with me. She doesn't say "I love you" but didn't seem to be disgusted with me saying it this morning, in fact she did that 'hold hand as long as possible whilst walking away' thing.
Survived another day. Today came home to a very pleasant gf. She said she wanted to just chat, and grinned at me a lot. Fetched me a beer when she was up on her feet without me saying anything and was really pleasant. I even had a hug.
I asked her how she was feeling about counselling on Monday. She said she was still angry with the counsellor but felt OK about going to it. I asked how she felt about me having backed off totally in terms of contact and time and she said she felt a lot less guilty. It was all light hearted and quite pleasant. She's now out for curry with her mates. There had definitely been more direct questions from her in the last few days about what I've been up to and who with, and what I've talked to them about.
Is this decrease in guilt good or bad? I'm still swinging madly between hope and despair. This morning I felt terrible and was scared of driving home, yet when I got here, it was actually very decent. I guess she could've invited me for dinner, but I don't usually do that after a 12 hr shift anyway.
That sounds to me like progress. Keep doing what works, even if it seems counter intuitive.
Today another 180. Totally different clothes to usual. Don't do that often, usually at home in jeans or tracksuit or working in glorified pyjamas, unless it's a special occasion. Feeling very smart and summery at the same time.
Last night was interesting. I played guitar when I got home as I had a rubbish day at work and needed to destress. She sang along whilst doing a bit of work on the computer. We had dinner together - she suggested it, and a very small relationship talk whilst she was ironing before bed.
She asked about the houses I'd been looking at, and how I was feeling about the whole moving thing. I told her I wasn't moving at the moment, although had seen a few lovely places. I told her I agreed with what she said 3 weeks ago about mixed messages of wanting to work at things and then packing. I explained it was just self preservation, and being ready to go should I need to. I asked her how she felt about me still being here in the her house, and she said it was awkward the first few minutes every time, but after that it was fine and comfortable. I told her how frustrating things are for me at the moment, because I know what I want, and thus feel the need to formulate a plan to get there. And that I'm not done with this relationship yet. She doesn't know what she wants (finally admitted it, hurrah!). I told her it was frustrating not being able to do or say what I want to do or say in her presence. I said I wasn't sure if I would be able to move out and not consider the relationship totally over and just start afresh in a totally seperate life. It would be weird. She asked why, and I couldn't really answer that.
She talked a lot about her day in the garden with her Mum and organising a leaving do for one of her colleagues. Showed me all the silly presents the office had made and bought.
Neither of us know what to expect at counselling, but she does want to go. I asked if she thought she might go again and she said "I don't know, it depends what happens tomorrow" but with a very positive face and tone.
Only 9 hours to go!
Keep up the good work lees. Sounds like you're getting somewhere.
Well I think I'm done now. Time to move out, move on. Shame that the house I really liked has already been rented.
MC last night was interesting. She seems to want me to have heard stuff she then admitted she'd never even tried to say. She doesn't ever want to be "looked after", doesn't ever want to be reliant on anyone, and is 85% sure the relationship is over. Still no further clues about what I've done wrong other than possibly not being viewed by her as open enough to talk to about the things she didn't want to talk about. She did the same in previous relationships also it seems. She still doesn't think feelings can be changed by actions, or that she'll ever feel "in love" again.
She wants to be friends. She likes spending time with me, likes that we have similar hobbies, thinks I understand her, and finds me intellectually stimulating. She doesn't believe that you should ever have to compromise on any of your wants or needs in a partner. The latter is the biggest red flag for me. I told her she was welcome to a single life if that is the case.
Still not sleeping well, not doing much revision and generally feeling like I'm going to be the last 30 something left on the shelf. Funny how I've been successful at everything else in life except the thing I want the most - a family and stable relationship. Even applying as much research and effort to that as I have to the other parts of my life doesn't seem to have borne fruit.
Onwards with the house hunting.
Anything new to report lees?