Ok so here goes. I don’t normally post to online boards and the abbreviations seem like another language. I have copied them to a cheat sheet so to speak to aid me. I have been lurking here since a week after the bomb. I found DR and began to read within days. Ms Davis should have been a familiar author as the W and I had purchased, but never read another of her books about the sex starved marriage. W’s passive resistance has been an ongoing issue over the last 29 years, not a constant issue more of a see saw. When she has said “Yes I will”, but places no effort in it I have learned not to push. It only entrenches the resistance and a lot of what we’ve begun over the years has been abandoned because of this. My fault for not trying something else harder I guess.
So here is my tale of woe, if I could not find some humor here I would fall apart. I tend to tell things chronologically so please bear with me.
My W ran away from home at 18. The MIL is bi polar (diagnosed). My W seemed to bear the brunt of her anger when cycling down and the FIL was not an effective shield. It got much worse after my W reached puberty and was diagnosed with epilepsy. I think part of what lead to her decision to D is she believed herself trapped in an angry environment again. We were caught in a rut when arguing about something. She would retreat inside and I would press to get a reaction. I know now I should have backed off and let her react, but sometimes her reaction would take days to be revealed if at all. Please to not misinterpret we have resolved many issues and differences and grown together in 29 years. We have had a lot of fun together and up until Mid December 2010 we were firming plans for how we would spend the rest of our lives together. I thought we were in lock step here because she was actively participating. She was about 5 yrs from retiring and I was about 15 to 18 yrs barring a catastrophe. Our communication issues had been escalating, but we seemed to be working well and communicating effectively about future plans and shopping for the holidays. I though we had turned a corner so to speak.
Our S enlisted in the Marine Corps met and married a female Marine in the last year. Our DIL’s mother has sufficient issues to impair her ability to live by herself and my W made it her mission to fix the problems she was having. My W is a healthcare professional in long term care and rehabilitation. Adding another person to take care of in August caused strain in our relationship. This MIL is our age and frankly all I could see is our priority’s reordered without consultation or care for my feelings and opinions. When I expressed myself about this my W retreated and I pressed. Her eventual reaction was “deal with it”. We have been dealing with aging parents and deaths in the family for years. I watched my parents care for a disabled older half sister. The constant sacrifices they made in their lives and required of us the other children were sometimes extensive. It felt like more piling on.
In the past five years our marriage has been essentially sexless. We would ML about once every six weeks. The W would initiate sex on a Saturday morning about once a month. I make a distinction between ML and let’s get this over with quickly because I feel guilty. I have ED and was not always able to perform. This of course led to other conflicts. When we were able to plan to ML my W generally drank to relieve inhibitions, sometime too much. I have felt bad she had to get drunk to ML with me.
In October my W changed to a new GYN. This doctor prescribed an anti depressant purportedly to treat a long term issue resulting from her endometriosis. She had a hysterectomy years ago and has been on HRT since. In November we began to notice undesirable side effects and she discontinued the med without Dr Supervision on December 15, 2010. I only mention this as it seems germane as a possible trigger point not the cause of our marital difficulties.
On December 21st she met with her L and announced to most of the family gathered for Christmas her intentions to D. She did not inform me until Jan 1, 2011. I can only imagine the strain this placed on our kids, Sister IL, DIL, nieces and nephews as they kept up a brave front and tried not to ruin the holiday. The SisterILs and one Aunt advised MC and to be certain of her decision. She refuses MC and is adamant the D must happen quickly. She wishes this to be over by April as in May our DIL separates from the MC and our S deploys. She has stated she will find a little place and make a home for our DIL while our S is deployed. I have spoken with our S and the DIL is not planning on moving in with my W. Frankly I think she is smart to distance herself from the drama.
In announcing her intentions to me on Jan 1 she said she is turning 50 this year and while ILYBNILWY. This is not where I saw myself at fifty. Our goals are not the same anymore. The plans we made were your plans not mine. You have dominated me, controlled me and abused me for too long. I have carefully watched our relation ship for the last four weeks and I am determined to follow through with this decision. I have made this decision and that is final. She presented her terms and moved to our S old room. She stayed in the house for about a week while we gathered documentation her L wanted. She has established separate bank accounts and we are speaking about splitting financial obligations. She moved out last week while I was at work leaving me a note. She is currently living with her Aunt in the next town.
I made mistakes at first challenging her decision, pleading for MC, asking her to slow the pace so we could go to MC and several others. I picked up DR and have been DB’ing for about two weeks. My short term goals are to get my W to take a breath and contemplate the consequences to her decision. She seems to think life will go on as before, that eventually we will all be happy with her and see the wisdom of her decision. She does not see a downside though it is apparent to me, our children and the family in general and see a MC myself, that is scheduled for Thursday morning.
I am trying to keep a PMA, and GAL. I have 180ed my actions and I am trying to distance myself from her hateful rhetoric. She is very angry and has attempted to push my buttons for an angry response. This will only serve to justify further her decision. I think she has to justify her decision to herself and others, being angry helps her with that. Where I used to rise like a trout to a fly I am refusing to play this game. I have gone dark not initiating contact, but responding to her calmly. I have maintained some contact with the SistersIL and our D has become a source of solace. Our D is 27 and moved out of the home at 18.
W has made plans for us to meet at our home and for us to clean for a couple of hours over several days each week while the D is prepared. She said we made this mess together we should clean it together. She has made plans in conflict with her cleaning schedule so I have begun to do so also. I don’t know what else to try here and I know I have only just begun.
She softened slightly yesterday. Our children have been privy to the terms she presented and the financial impact to each of us they present. The children do not want the home to be lost and expressed this to my W, without my knowledge or prompting. She has contacted her L and told him to remove the house from the equation. She informed me of this last night by a phone call. I remained non committal telling her my L would need to advise me regarding this change in terms. I told my L I am in no hurry to conclude this, at least not in the few weeks’ contemplation we have had. The W met with a clergy member she trusts last night. I have called him and asked to speak with him; I am still waiting on a return call about this. To place this in context of this board it seems to me W is in a MLC and has walked away. Our D a psychology major told me my W actions and statements are in line with a MLC.
So what am I missing? What else can I try next if these don’t begin to slow the pace of this rollercoaster?
You have my utmost sympathy. Seems you are in the car of ahead of me but on the same ride.
Frankly from the last few days and postings on MLC I've read, all we can do is hang the heck on, fasten our safety belts, and detach.
I will direct you the thread started by me entitled Someone Suggest H is having MLC....I don't know? Here:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showthreaded&Number=2121924#Post2121924One of the first posts has a resource list on MLC by Cadet to get you started. I'm not through all of it, but steadily working through it as I can.
I'll hold your hand and we can both scream.
Stunned
While I normally wouldn't steer someone over to the Mid Life Crisis Forum right away, it might be a good idea that you read the resources over there.
After you read you can determine if that (MLC) is what you're dealing with.
In any event you will find support here.
Keep posting.
Can you give your and your W's age?
Also I can surmize that growing up with a bipolar mother she meets the criteria of childhood trauma.
Usually there is something to trigger the MLC, is there anything you can point to recently (last couple of years)?
Thanks for the replies Scylla_Charibdis and Truegritter,
I have lurked on the MLC forum and read quite a bit. So much to pour over and try to assimilate. It is ovewhelming. I really feel more like weeping than screaming. Thanks for the support. I just don't understand how one can toss away 29 yrs with a few weeks consideration. I guess I have become the mother she ran away from. In her mind anyway.
She's 49, and she ran into an old crush from High School last fall. She made a big deal out of friending him on FB and telling her life story. His third marriage is crumbling. I am not ready to face my fears about that yet.
The W came over today "To clean the mess we made together" I think this is more about seperating the things she still wants than cleaning. It felt good to do someting together even if it is seperating our things. I kept neutral. She was heated a few times. I think she was attempting to provoke a reaction.
Her Aunt came with her. W will only visit if she has someone with her. She says she is afraid I will get violent. I think she belives it. I never have. Our agurments never went past raised voices and typically resolved within a day. I think it is important for her to believe I am evil and abusive. I helps rationalize her decision. Trouble is her support is buying into this fantasy. I will have a private conversation with her Aunt tonight. I intend to challenge the things she has been saying about me and show the Aunt I am leaving the door open for MC. Someone over there has to listen if only for a moment to myside. I have no illusions this will be kept private still I have to try.
I feel better just posting this THANKS
Stunned - Join the club man. I wish that I were in a better state of mind to give you some thoughts. This is the roller coaster of your life if you hang on... In the span of 72 hours I have been on cloud 9 and pushed off that cloud to be crushed like a grape. Good times.
Keep posting and posting. It will help you! I am not new to these boards but I am new this time around. just getting back into DBing again. Try to stay as positive as you can and don't worry about what other people are thinking. Change for yourself and only for you, It doesn't work any other way!
I am so sorry you are in pain. This is a great community for support. Everyone here knows what it feels like and everyone just wants to help.
Thanks Wanda15,
Just got back from the AuntIL. I think I was able to communicate pretty well. At least poke a few holes in the stories told. She did agree to encourage MC if she believed it would be favorably received. I am taking that as a plus. One day at a time. Keep with the program. I have to be in this for the long haul.
Moderator: Where/how do I place the H: W: Bomb dropped etc. at the bottom of posts. I tried sig, but that didn't work. Is there a guide, sorry social media and the like are new.
Sorry Truegritter I did not fully read your post. I am 52, W is 49, 2 C D 27 S 24.
The assited living place where the son's MIL is staying is creating some havoc in my Ws life. Feels strange not to be helping her deal with it.
We have had a few issues with the signature line. I placed a notification to our administrator. Try again in about 24-48 hours.
Today was a bad day. I learned that last night while I was pouring my heart out to the Aunt, my W and the SisterILs were playing cards and having fun with friends. This was the way we would pass a Sat night about once a month.
I spoke with the SisterIL who hosted the party today. She doesn't think there is any hope, but wonders why my W want the D final in a few weeks. What’s the rush? Still no one is advising W to slow down only to be certain, so she is more certain each day.
I know I need to GAL but so much of my life revolved around her family and doing for her family that I am isolated without them. My family is small, no one beside Mom is close by. I can't speak with Mom about this she's 83 and frail. I always counted on W being there for me when the trauma of her passing occurred. Just a bad day tomorrow’s another chance. Even the dog knows I am hurting, her keeps leaving his toys with me.
<<JustStunned>>
I haven't been on the boards in a quite a while. I just popped in tonight to see what was going on. Your thread was the first one I dived into. It brought back a lot of memories of my own experience. I just want to give you a big hug.
I want to post a few things for you:
I hope you have been reading the books. GAL is essential, and of course its not an easy thing to do. The books (especially Divorce Remedy) cover this in some detail. Even better, read a lot of threads hear about GAL. When I first got to the forums here, I would basically check my own thread over and over, holding my breath for just SOMEONE to post a reply. I wish I had used that time reading more of the stories here. There is so much specific advice here. I understand you are feeling isolated. Go out and do NEW things.
Make sure you do the actual steps outlined in the book. I was so desperate(I wanted a fix NOW), that I read the whole book at once, skipping parts too, even though the book explains exactly why you shouldn't do that. I suspect that many people here don't follow the steps in the book. You have a lot to learn, and the sooner you get to the book the better.
This forum here/the people that participate made a big difference in my own situation. Even though I did not save my own marriage, I still feel very strongly about the DB principals. The DB work I did/do has made me a better person for my experience; helped me survive it.
Hang in there.
I spoke with the SisterIL who hosted the party today. She doesn't think there is any hope, but wonders why my W want the D final in a few weeks. What’s the rush? Still no one is advising W to slow down only to be certain, so she is more certain each day.
Divorce seems to always take much longer than any of the parties suspect. When I eventually had to interview lawyers, I was really surprised when they all told me to expect 6-12 months to reach a divorce. I didn't think they were right, but sure enough it took over 8 months from when my wife actually filed.
Keep in mind, your wife has likely been thinking about this a long time, so it doesn't seem like such a rush job to her. Still, read what the book says about this. Spend your time on taking care of yourself, improving yourself. Let her worry about the divorce. Treat her well. Hang in there.
Even the dog knows I am hurting, her keeps leaving his toys with me.
All of our pets responded the same way too. They are very sensitive aren't they? Take the dog out for long walks, away from everyone and you can let out some of that pain, where no one else can see it. My own dog has truly been a best friend through all of this.
I found that playing with the dog, would often help with the deep sadness.
Thanks, I am trying, walking the dog on the weekends. It is to dark and cold during the work week. W insisted on getting the dog about two years ago. I wonder sometimes if she was attempting to find another friend for me.
I have been reading threads here and DR. So much of this is overwhelming that I can only do so in little bits, still getting through some of this is helping.
I had my second session with my MC this morning. The MC is trying to give me ideas and things to say, much of this is reflected in DR and on this board. It is the timing I am concerned with. My MC advises me to keep all comments "I" centric, avoid using "You" She advised me to indicate I want to keep the door open for exploring how we might have a different kind of relationship in the future. That I do not feel we have given consoling a chance. I know now that our relationship cannot continue as before, but perhaps we can make a different relationship if we try.
My W told one of her sisters she does not want to be alone with me, as I might try to manipulate her into second guessing her decision and beginning MC. Frankly I am comfortable with this in front of her support group. I went down this path three weeks ago. At the time W agreed it was a reasonable request and met with a C and setup an appointment for me a few days later. When she meet with her C she represented her desire for a D. The C called me a few days later and advised me to seek another C as meeting with me would be a violation of her ethics.
So I have to try and detach from the emotions here. Try to find a time when my W might be open to the idea before proposing it again. She is the best thing to ever happen to me. While I know I can move on, losing our relationship completely without fighting for it feels like such a waste.
Had a good evening yesterday, spoke with S and DIL about this sitch. I have spoken with the S since the bomb but never about the sitch and the DIL has been dark. Neither of them believes I am the monster I have been portrayed as. They understand W is angry and lashing out. My D and I spoke last night also. She wants to confront and refute what W is saying to family and friends. She agreed to try and temper her approach. It is important she expresses herself, but she agreed to try and keep it non confrontational as this would only cause W to escalate her anger. Advice from DR this board and MC all seems to agree on this point. I hope D can maintain composure.
From the D I understand her contemporaries, (nieces, and nephews) believe W will eventually see she should give this relationship a chance to develop into something different. Not what we were prior to the bomb, but not D’ed either. All of the nieces and nephews close by have been born outside of marriage or grew up dealing with SIL’s D. My W and I have been surrogate M and F to all of them at one time or another. They are feeling the stress too. Reading this make my W family seem like WT. That is not true, fair, or my intention. These posts help me detach.
This rollercoaster is running level just now, but I know another steep drop is just ahead and I am trying to be dispassionate about it. Need to GAL more I will check to see if there is a local archery club near by this weekend.
JustStunned:
There are a lot of details in your last post.
many MC's are divorce friendly, hopefully you have found a IC for yourself that is familiar with DB principles.
I know it's counter-intuitive, but you should be spending your time on yourself and trying not to worry about your marriage right now. This is in the book. I think I truly understand how hard it is to focus right now, and certainly how hard it is to know what is the right thing to do. Yes, reading all these posts is hard. Still, have you done the first steps in the book? Finding out what YOU need?
My understanding of true GAL, is finding out what you want most out of life and going after it, without relying on another person for your happiness. If you do this, it may be the true "180" that you need to improve your situation.
Are you reading the book?
I'm in a rush this morning, so I'm typing this fast. Hang in there!
Thanks Awoken:
I’ve pretty much gone dark as it relates to direct contact with my W. I have not emotionally disconnected to my W, but I am trying with some success to let most of what she says and does to pass without challenge. That is a 180. So she presses harder. I assume she is attempting to provoke a reaction. I am praying for peace and control of myself and my half of this sitch. I never saw it before, but the longer this goes on the more I see how many of my actions in this R were reactions. So much of my life was spent giving to the extended family that I have forgotten what makes me alone happy. Some of that giving was very satisfying and I was happier for it.
I need to put the house in order to begin to find peace. Several of the rooms and most of the basement looks like people with a hoarding disorder live here. I’ve made a few dents here and there and I am beginning to find pride. My D came by last night and told me the house is cleaner than she has seen it in six months. That is not entirely true I know she was trying to lift my spirits. Tonight I plan to begin tackling part of the basement. I’ve spent the last week washing and putting away sheets and blankets that have been piled up in the basement laundry for most of the last six months. When I would be out of the house for an extended period typically a week (7 times last year) my W would begin a project. Several of these need to be finished so I have plenty of indoor work to keep busy with. I think putting the house in order will help me GAL. It certainly cannot hurt to reduce some of the chaos.
Yes, I am detail oriented. This was required in a previous life and needed where I work. This aspect of my personality was alternatively loathed and appreciated in our R
I am reading the books and finding mechanisms for coping here. I need more so I continue to look.
So Tuesdays W and I are supposed to meet at the house and clean up our mess. Yesterday I received a text asking if I was planning on it or something else. I replied I planned on cleaning, but it was up to her if she wanted to stop by.
She was there when I got home drinking a cup of tea alone. She has previously stated she did not trust me not to get violent with her and that was why she would never be alone with me again. There is no basis for her lack of trust. It does not reflect reality. We made small talk while I fed the dog and I managed to keep the conversation neutral. I told her if she wished me to continue feeding the cats I would need her to provide the food. She agreed to provide cat food. She seemed to appreciate I would continue to care for her cats and that I had recently purchased food for them. This is a 180 as I have never seen the logic in feeding the 6 feral strays. I asked about DIL’s M. apparently the assisted living place wants my W to move furniture out and into storage. W was hinting I should help her do this. Normally this is something I would have jumped to help with. I didn’t this time. She did not ask, and I did not volunteer. Oddly I do not feel bad about it.
I received a text from one of the SIL inviting me to dinner. So I told W I now had plans and she would need to leave in thirty minutes. She seemed to alternate between anger and sadness the whole time she was there. She seemed to gain composure when she informed me of what her L told her to do. The L doesn’t want us to have contact and to let each of our Ls manage the D. She emptied a storage closet of her summer clothes and left.
Later at SIL for dinner the stress hit me. I spent most of the rest of the evening depressed. Not for the way I handled it or how well it went. I think it went pretty good. Rather for the sitch and lack of progress I am making. Today I realize I have been barely at this for three weeks and the road is long.
Yesterday W and I spoke about our DIL living with her after the DIL separates from the USMC during our S deployment. She said our S and DIL decided it made more sense for our DIL to stay in their apartment. I asked if this reduced the urgency for the D. She agreed it did then immediately began to push for the rushed timeline again. It is a mixed message. I think she has made this decision, planned her escape and is afraid she might have second thoughts about it. She has rushed to tell everyone she is D’ing me as if she is trying to get comfortable with the decision and make it more real. I reminded her of a time when one of her uncles tried to recruit us onto his side during a rough patch in his M and how uncomfortable that made us. She didn’t comment, but was thoughtful for a moment.
I am waiting to see if what I have tried so far is working. I believe I am getting small successes. She was as nervous as a small caged animal yesterday, but I managed to keep our meeting calm and off R discussions. The closest we came to an R talk was the impetus rushing the D.
Sorry one more thing comes to mind W tells me she accepted a different position at a different company. She and I had discussed this job change before. I thought I had been pretty neutral about it, but perhaps she didn’t see it that way. It is a longer distance to travel and she would work for an old friend that we had heard through the grapevine was difficult to work for. So when she brought it up several months before the bomb I was cautionary. Yesterday she just announced it and gave reasons for her decision. I wished her good luck and asked when she started.
Yesterday our D had dinner with W and the Aunt she is living with. Our D wanted to ask questions and discuss how this decision is affecting her. She has asked me questions and I have been as honest as I can be. She needed to hear Ws side. W and Aunt accused D of representing me in this. D and I had discussed this possibility, and I asked D to be careful. She thinks she was eventually able to swing the discussion to her and away from me. She was upset afterward and needed to vent. She came by the house late and we spoke while she vented to online friends. Though this is not a decision I have any control over I grieve for the affect it is having on family. Saying I am sorry just doesn’t seem enough, but what else can I do? D told me she is alternating between anger and depression over this decision. I asked her if she could speak to a C about it. She doesn’t know if her employer has a program or if it is part of her HC insurance.
This morning I received correspondence from my L. He has received a proposal from W’s L and wishes to meet to discuss it. We’ll have to generate a counter proposal and begin the back and forth. I am in no hurry. I do not want to D without a chance at MC. My W is pushing and rushing this as if our R can be discarded like refuse. My C tells me I have control over this as it takes two to D and I have to sign the papers. I doubt I can simply refuse to sign. I meet with my C again on Monday hopefully we can put some perspective around this.
Tomorrow family gathers to celebrate a birthday. Our niece has been like another daughter at times when my W and I stepped up to provide stability and help her mother. Both my W and I have been invited. I’ll be DB’ing my fanny off.
Wish me luck
Well the dinner went well. W did not attend. She called to tell me she was busy with DIL’s mother in the ER. She wanted me to take the B Day present we picked out when we were Christmas shopping. It seems strange that we were happily buying gifts for family while W was judging the state of our relationship and deciding to D. I was pleasant during dinner and her family seemed to be gauging me. We played a hand of Uno afterwards and then cut cake. Today I spoke with one of the SILs, she wanted to know if I felt comfortable in their presence. I told her it felt a little strange for W not to be there and I was attempting to be a little more talkative. I hope word gets back to W how pleasant it was. My SIL said it was important to my niece that I was able to attend.
Today I met with an informal group of people for a little CC skiing. I was fun and there is the added benefit of being able to tell the SILs about it. The organizer of the group also organizes sailing trips for venture scouting. Each of the SILs and several of the nephews and nieces are involved. So part of my GAL will benefit them. I hope word gets back to W. W accuses me of being controlling. According to my W I am lost and alone because I cannot control her anymore.
This morning I was reviewing our relationship and I never realized how controlling she was, how isolated I have become. I have no close relationships aside from those she approved mostly her family. More fodder for the speaking with my C tomorrow.
If anyone is reading these posts a word of encouragement would be nice. I hate to ask and if I have offended in these posts I apologize. So much of the online etiquette is foreign to me.
Yesterday W stopped at the house. I was shoveling snow out of the driveway and she granted me a ride to the house with her. It is a long driveway. She brought over cat food as I had agreed to continue to feed the outside cats. I had already purchased a bag. When I told her I had she did not seem surprised. She gave me a check for half of the property taxes. When she took half of our savings she took most of the property taxes. I told her I would need her to provide half of the taxes and she agreed. She asked if I understood the terms her L has communicated to my L are negotiating points. I told her I did and asked if she understood pursing the D this way was moving it out of an amiable disillusionment and more into confrontation through our Ls. I told her I preferred to work something else out. She asked what. I told her I did not think she was ready to discuss alternatives. She pressed and I got stupid. My C had been coaching me to bring up exploring if we could have a different relationship than the one she is running from. So I asked if she would be open to discussing it. She said you’re right I am not ready to talk about that. I wanted her to know the door was ajar when she is ready to talk about it. Did I make a huge mistake here?
Through this whole encounter she had this odd grin. She seems almost giddy about the effect she is having. This is not the way W normally presents herself, especially in sitch that are stressful. She is under stress the tension in her body language is apparent. Who is this person? She is behaving more like a child taking delight in the chaos she is sewing than the women I have spent the last 30 yrs with.
I told her about joining an archery league, and CC skiing. She dismissed these, so I will continue to provide examples when I am capable of being happy since she left.
I did set a boundary telling her she should not be in the house when I am not there. She has removed items she thinks are hers. Silver and pewter dishes we shopped at antique stores for and such. I would agree these are things that she could have as part of the D, but I wonder what else is missing. She wants to move larger items next week as she is taking a week off between job changes. I told her I had been advised these were items we purchased as a couple and they should not be removed from the house until after we had agreed and listed them. This is becoming more adversarial. This is not what I want, but it seems as if I am pushed this way. I have to try and come out of this with as little damage as possible, but I am already scarred. So do I change the locks before next week?
How do I DB while W pushes hard for the D. It seems like she is afraid of haveing second thoughts and must push as rapidly as possible to her freedom. I am afraid before this is all over I will hate her for the position she is pushing the family into. Today is a low day. Thanks for listening.
In all this I have been trying to find rational reasons for the sitch I find our relationship in, something to blame it on. A brain chemistry imbalance, some med she was taking, a psych break, the beginning of a manic cycle, etc., something that could be fixed. It makes me crazy trying to fix blame. I’ve come to understand from reading other threads that there are better ways so…..
I am trying to think of it this way.
The person that was my W has disappeared and the person inhabiting her body is running away. Sooner or later she will rest, look around and realize the grass is not greener, the sky bluer or the water sweeter. Until then I need to work on making me happier. If she looks over her shoulder and sees a happy secure man moving forward in life perhaps she’ll walk over and speak with me again. Then and only then can we explore the possibility of building a new different relationship. This one, the one she is running from cannot be restored. It is no ones fault it just is.
I do not know how successful I will be, but at least it is a better plan and helps me accept something I cannot change.
So the W came by the house tonight, sans the support group. She had previously said she would not be alone in the house with me as she was fearful about what I would do to her. She has been alone with me for a few times for a few minutes each time. This time was a whole hour. I have never lifted a hand against or physically abused her. So it was good to see her trusting me enough to be alone with me. Perhaps a bit of reality is sinking in slowly.
Her body language was closed so she was not going to listen to anything I said of substance. I managed to keep the conversation light and away from R discussions. I did not approach R at all. We discussed her change of address issues and what bills to split up. It seems her L has advised her to begin paying for the CCards in her name. I need to speak with my L about that as it runs counter to what he told me. She kept trying to bring up how to separate the furniture. It is strange as these discussions will all come up in good time. There is little rush, and they are all just things. She seems to be trying to build what she will have after the D. I guess in her mind it is a head long rush. We spent an hour straightening in the basement. She put away things our S left behind. I broke down empty boxes and got them ready to move to the trash. She seems to think I will provide storage for everything left behind. Certainly I will try to keep the children’s things as long as I am able to keep the house. If we actually do D part of the reality to be dealt with will be where to put all of her stuff. This post is just for my piece of mind, but comments are welcome.
Today my W came by the house after lunch to “clean our mess”. She brought our other dog over to play also. After some small talk about what was happening with her job change and how good this new job will be she asked if we could get started. The conversation was all about her world and what is affecting it.
I deferred cleaning as the dogs were still quite excited and told her we would only be running upstairs every few minutes. The dogs are a 30 lb mixed breed and a 200 lb Mastiff. They need to be supervised when they play, else the smaller dog could be hurt. At least that was the logic I used. We made more small talk. After the dogs settled she asked again if we could get started. I told her the dogs would not stay settled. As if he read my mind the mixed breed went over to her from where I was sitting and began to whine and beg for attention. During this whole time she stayed distant standing just outside the room the dogs and I were in.
I told her I’d rather talk with her than clean. She came into the room and sat across from me. Her body language was tentative. I read it as if she would listen, but close off if I said something offensive or pressured in any way. I managed to validate a couple of reasons for her decision to D and apologized for the way I made her feel. She heard me for the first time today. She told me what she has been doing to make herself happy. I thought to myself none of what you are doing you could not do while staying in the M. I congratulated her on doing things for herself; and silently myself for not vocalizing my initial thought. I spoke about the archery league, and CC skiing. She asked if we could move the Tuesday cleaning to Wednesday. I alluded to another commitment on Wed. I don’t have one. I guess I need to get one.
It is a small step. There are many more to take. She needs to see me as changed. She need to see the possibilities of the R changes also. I can only stay this course.
JustStunned,
I just came back today to check in out you. I'm surprised that you are not getting replies from others here. It's different from when I was here a year ago.
I read through your postings since I last responded.
In general, I think you are having too many relationship talks. Think about how that is working. If she gives you the slightest bit of acknowledgment, you are leaping on it as a sign of improvement. You mentioned your archery and skiing, and your need for here to see your changes. Do the changes for YOURSELF, and try not to worry if she can notice them or not. You need to make these improvements for yourself, in order for it to be changes that really matter, both to you and your wife. When you mention these things to her, it sounds needy, like you need here approval, like you want her to see you trying.
I will use the word that is often used here in the DB forums: You need to detach. It's a simple word, but very difficult to understand it's meaning and how to do it, plus it's stands opposite of what you are trying to do: remain attached. If you can emotionally detach yourself from your need to save your marriage, and focus on being a better man yourself, you may make some meaningful changes that will shock everyone.
I wish I had more time, and that others were participating in your thread. I'll be more blunt with you, because I think it's relevant. I'm a little hesitant, because in the past I've relied on the balance reached through having a group of people commenting on a thread. My own situation ended in divorce, but I still think I learned a lot here. What I want to say is that in reading your thread, you are saying and doing the things that most left-behind spouses do, and the very things that continue to drive their spouses farther away.
I think you should avoid all divorce talks. Let the lawyers handle the divorce, and delay it as long as you can afford to. Read the part of the DB book about "last resort". You should avoid all relationship talks. Yes, she seems like a different person. There is nothing to gain from talking about this right now. I know you want to fix things, and fix it RIGHT NOW. This impulse is something you have to fight. I followed through with the no relationship talks, but one of my many mistakes, was to just avoid talking. You need to be cheerful around her, but be too BUSY living your new life. Any conversations you have, politely end them first, because you have to go. Don't explain any of it. You have already made it clear that you want to work things out. You don't need to keep chasing her. Anything you do that she can see as chasing her, she may and will likely use against you as reasons to justify her decision to leave.
You have to provide real 180's, but don't explain or justify them. Every newcomer here (including me of course) asks "how will they know that I am making these changes?!?!" You have to not worry about this.
I asked you before about if you were reading the book. How is that going for you? Are you reading other threads here? I know that it takes a lot of time. Look, from my perspective, you NEED to read that book, and the threads, PLUS you will have the extra benefit of all that time distracting you from things that are likely interfering with what you need to do. You need to stop thinking about saving your marriage, and come to terms with saving yourself. It's in the book. When you are having all these thoughts, read the book, read threads, go do things that improve your life.
Hang in there.
Awoken:
Thank you for your feedback. I needed it. I defined myself through my marriage and how happy W was. When we clicked we were a force. Most of her family is dysfunctional and they relied on us. Recently as I was less able to see her happiness and satisfaction I began to drive for mine. Problem was I was driving her rather than myself and arguing against the major thing she was doing for herself.
I am reading the threads and commenting in a few. I have read and I am rereading DR. picking up bits and pieces of advice from both. None of this is cookie cutter, sometimes she is a deranged 15 yr old in a 49 yr old body in the middle of a MLC, and other time she is the adult I love. It plays with my mind. The sitch with the 15 yr old in it is easy to detach from, the adult who is no longer exuding hatred less so. I was speaking with the adult the last time.
I will have no contact with either this week perhaps I can find something to be busy with this weekend also.
I will continue to journal here.
Mom found out about the sitch. She’s upset and concerned for both of us. It is painful to see her reaction. My biggest worry is how this will affect her health. She internalizes a lot of emotional, she always has. The anxiety will prevent her from sleeping. I am taking her to see her GP in a few weeks if it gets bad I’ll ask if she’ll let him prescribe something.
Maybe I should be taking something too, although this seems to be getting a little easier. I am getting a little more sleep.
I spoke with our S last night. This was the first time in two weeks, just small talk, nothing about the chaos here. We did discuss if he would be able to take leave before he deploys and how we might spend a little of it together. That is up in the air as the timing is not known. I wonder how W will take this. If we weren’t in this sitch, we’d have used some of the air miles I have saved to travel and spend a few days with our S and DIL. Now I am not inclined to facilitate her travel and by then the D will likely be final if she keeps to her plan.
Moderator: What does the (NA) in front of the thread title indicate?
An update from the GAL front: I joined an archery league. Tonight was the first night. I shot a 283 out of a possible 300 with 25 X rings. Not bad, I am not in the running for the prize money, but it was a respectable score. More importantly I was able to socialize and participate in something I like to do. I’ll go back next Tuesday.
No contact with W so far this week, my choice. I need to find something to be busy with Saturday. With any luck I won't speak with or see the W until a week from Thursday.
I am still going through the emotions of grieving. This morning was anger some what less intense than before. I am angry W can just toss away everything we worked for over 29 yrs due to anger and disappointment at the last 6 to 9 months. This is the time frame she referenced in her parting letter to me. It has taken me weeks to decipher and try to make sense of the ranting contained in her letter. If there ever will be an example of her state of mind as she ran away that letter is it. I realize the time frame is probably longer and running away is what she did at 18. She never, ever indicated her anger and disappointment; she just withdrew further and further from the R. Like an idiot I perused and pressured for a response.
I knew we weren’t communicating and now I know I was running down cheese less holes trying to force a reaction from her. I kept yammering away if we don’t speak to a MC about our problems we will end up D, is that what you want? I did not want D and could not conceive she would either. So in a way I brought this upon us. I planted the seed. Her anger and disappointment nurtured it.
I have accepted I have no control over her decision; I am still grieving, less intently than before but still grieving. Any change to this sitch is her decision to make and she has to want to. So I need to detach, GAL, and use everything I can to focus myself elsewhere, away from the sitch. I need to stop whining. I need to return to PI. I need to sound off like I have a pair. Wish me luck.
In another thread tjack45 posted "You need to work on detaching. google livestrong detachment and read this all the time."
I did, it puts detachment in a different light for me, one more applicable to my sitch I think. There is also an article about boundaries that applies on the same site. I am not promoting another site. I am saying these articles have meaning for me.
W called last night. First time in a long time. She usually texts. She asked if she should come over Thursday night to clean our mess. I told her no, I have plans after work and will be late getting home. I stumbled over the words and almost began to explain myself. I caught myself and did not offer an explanation of what I was doing. The conv ended when I said have a good night. She did not give me much of a reaction. she seemed anxious to get off the phone.
I have a meeting with my C after work tonight no telling when I'll get home.
Met with my C last night, I can only afford one more session so we scheduled it for 10 days out. It was not a very productive session. We reviewed the last week and how I have little hope W is willing to slow the D process. My C does not understand what the rush is anymore than I do. She tells me to tell W “We can D anytime. We have 30 yrs invested in this M. It seems to me we could explore the possibility of a relationship in the marriage that is different from the one you wish to end.” From my point of view this makes logical sense.
I don’t think W is ready to hear this yet. She told me so about two weeks ago. The opinions from this board have been to stay away from this type of discussion. What sign do I look for to tell me I can broach the subject?
I meet with my L today to develop a counter proposal. My C thinks if the counter is realistic and W realizes she will struggle also then she might be approachable. I wonder how many couples have gone to the brink and pulled it back. I know I am not standing at the brink yet, but it looms ahead.
Some days I am more detached than others. This isn’t one of the better days. Maybe I should take up base jumping as part of my GAL.
Hello All, I really need some feedback here. I have just met with my L to discuss a counter proposal. He has been a D attorney in this county for 30 yrs. So I trust he knows what he is saying. Basically the realistic settlement will leave both W and I financially devastated from where we are now. There is too little equity and too much debt for this to be any different.
This is not the fantasy W has built in her mind. She believes she will have enough in the settlement to make a down payment on a small house she can afford. The numbers just won’t support this and neither one of us will be able to keep the present house. I am not surprised by this so I am not too devastated now.
My L will draft the response and her L will see it in about a week.
My questions to you:
Do I let this be a shock, or do I warn W? I am inclined to let her find out from her L.
I’d like for her to read the 1st chapter in DR at some point after she speaks with her L about the counter. Any suggestions about how to introduce the 1st chapter?
Saturday, I had a cup of coffee and spoke with one of the SILs, nothing about my sitch, just small talk. She congratulated me on what little GAL I’ve been able to do. Her boyfriend was interested in the CC skiing. Too bad we are at the end of the season.
I had a little contact with W. I initiated a text message about her old expired credit cards stored in the safe. She called asking about replacements cards for the ones she is carrying now. I had to tell her they are not here. When she planned her escape she packed several bags and cached them with family and friends. She lost her extra checks for a week this way. I was accused of shedding the checks. I don’t know what I am accused of about the cc cards. Doubtless the replacement cc cards are stashed somewhere. It is all irrational, but from information about WAS on this board seems to fit.
She will stop at the house on Thursday to discuss what to clean on Saturday. It'll be the first time in two weeks she will see my smiling happy confident face. I am debating whether to remove most of the pictures of us from display in the house. They are beginning to depress me so I probably will pack them away
Yesterday Mom asked if W had moved back home. I had to tell her no and a little bit more about the sitch. I previously had been making meals ahead for her like W and I used to, talking about W, and what we were doing, keeping the R alive for her. I just can’t keep up that part of the charade any longer. Mom is pretty much house bound when the weather get bad so I’ve been grocery shopping and taking her to Dr appts.
Mom is taking this pretty hard, she is sorry for me. She reminded me the last time W was hospitalized for depression W blamed all her problems on Mom. W still does blame my Mom and her Mom for a lot of issues. Now she blames me. When will she realize all of these people are not at fault? That her happiness is dependant upon how she perceives and communicates. She’s never reconciled with her mother; she only just tolerates my mother, so why should I hope she’ll try and build a new R within our M?
I’ve interacted more with mom in the last six weeks than I have with W. Yesterday was a bad day. Today is not much better. Time to suck it up and get moving I have lost 22 lbs to the anxiety of separation program. I’ll start lifting again when that part of the basement gets straighten. It is next on my list. joining a gym isn't finacially possible.
Tomorrow I have archery leagues so at least I’ll get out and socialize there.
So here I sit at work. An email from my attorney arrived. I know it is the counter proposal we worked on last Friday. He told me I could take a couple of days to review it suggest changes and then get it back to him.
Sooooo I will wait to open it. I see it as another steep drop on this rollercoaster, and right now I need my wits about me for other things. It is review time and my people deserve my focus on their reviews. I am about half done with Friday as the deadline. If I can focus I’ll get it done.
In a few hours I’ll be in an archery lane. It generally calms me done to focus on form and sight picture. It cannot be done well if one is tense or over thinks. I’ll be calmer in a few hours.
Hi there JustStunned! Just caught up with your sitch ... so surprised you haven't gotten more comments on your thread.
Just wondering if you ever changed the locks ... i thought it a good idea to broach that with your L.
I don't think you should approach your W to read DR or any other R book. That would seem like pursuing. Only enter into a R talk, if she starts it, and then only affirm her feelings (which is not agreeing that she is right with the actions she has taken).
Detach. Try avoiding her ... don't always be available for her. Cancel appts sometimes ... just find something else to do. I think you are starting to get the point, that GAL is for you. You can use this time to be instrospective.
Try and renew old friendships. Yes, you have been isolated within W's family, but you have your adult kids too ... they are there for you now, even if they shouldn't be taking sides. I so feel bad for your mom, but you are there for her. Try and spend time with her, just chatting about other things. If she likes to play games like cards, then do that or put puzzles together. This will allow her to concentrate on something else. You sound like such a good son. Do you have sibliings?
And, I think you should take down the photos of you and your W ... before she comes around again. Let her see you are moving on without her. If you ever reconcile, then you can have new pictures take because it would be a new M.
I think you are doing well considering the situation you find youself in. Keep up the good work.
Hello BeingMe, Thank you so much for posting. There are so many people on this board the threads seem to fly through the first pages, so I guess this one is just lost in the shuffle. I cannot figure out how to quote sections of a post.
I did not change the locks. W is respecting my boundary of not entering the house unless I am present. Possibly because there is little left there she can easily remove by herself. I hope not, but it is a real possibility. My L was not enthusiastic about a lock change at this time.
I canceled all of her cleaning plans last week, two of them legitimately and two of them just because I did not want to deal with the drama. I needed time to center myself, probably still do. I’ll know tomorrow night when we meet to discuss what to “clean on Saturday”. I suspect W is losing enthusiasm for this.
I am spending time with mom. She likes to visit and reminisce. We try and keep the conv away from my problems most of the time, but it is an effort for both of us. She likes to talk about her childhood experiences. I know it was a hard existence, but it is amazing how she can remember the good times. I have a sister living in CT, we speak about once a week. She will visit mom in April.
Our S is expecting to get leave before he deploys. I have offered to visit him, I have enough air miles. I speak with him about once a week. DIL listens on the speaker phone. Our D visits most nights after class or work.
The pictures and the MR license came down. They have been boxed and put away. I left a collage of a happy vacation up in a hallway. I just realized I left it up, and I don’t see a good reason to pull it down. There is only one couple shot in it.
I have called a few old friends, and my cousin and his wife will visit this Sunday. I am not as isolated as I was.
To put a phrase in italics --- highlight section you want italicized/quoted, then control/C, go to your posting form, control/V, hightlight and click on the " (quote some text) on the above bar. I will do it below:
I am not as isolated as I was.
I am so glad you are not isolated .... one needs a group of friends/family as a foundation to carry one through a crisis, and a separation or divorce is almost like a death in the family, and I can't think of a worse crisis than that.
You are doing very well for this stage, so I commend you for that. Perhaps that is why you don't get as many hits on your thread .. people are unsure how to help you.
Take care.
That is the problem with seeming to be doing so well...
It's almost like triage, yeah your hand is cut off but this guy has a sucking chest wound...
Stunned, post to others, talk to them and they'll respond in kind as well. Build a support group, find the BITS and start talking with them, it s a good group of guys and gals and : )
BITS never walk alone.
Thanks BeingMe, I’ll give the quoting thing a try when I am not so exhausted. I think I am doing well right now. I know that will change. I have little reason to hope I will actually achieve my final goal, but if I dwell on it, put energy into it, it will become a self fulfilling prophecy. So for now smaller more achievable goals is where I need to put my energy. Perhaps I'll make it to success stories God and time will tell. Please check back
JTB thanks for the advice. The triage example makes sense. I circle at the edge of the BITS, and commented in a few of their threads. They are tight.
This was a bad morning but a better afternoon, not great, better since I have been able to log on to this board.
I had one of those 3AM dreams people write about. It is pretty vague now, but in it I was trying to text W about something, huge sense of urgency. I wasn’t able to though something more urgent kept interrupting me. I was up for about an hour after, just couldn’t shut my mind down.
Tight?
Too tight to get in?
Nothing in doing this is easy, so go for an easy win. I bet if you put BITS in your signature they'd even tell you their secret handshake. : )
I'm pretty sure you don't get asked to join, you just do.
You support them, they support you.
The dreams...
The brain...
Being up for 30 minutes doesn't sound all that bad.
Saying it's just a dream while true...doesn't help you in the middle of the night, have a book next to your bed...no not DR, nothing...like self help, that will just get your brain going...something light, something decent, not so decent you stay up until the morning reading though.
Tight?
Too tight to get in?
Nothing in doing this is easy, so go for an easy win. I bet if you put BITS in your signature they'd even tell you their secret handshake. : )
I'm pretty sure you don't get asked to join, you just do.
You support them, they support you.
That's right Jack!!
BITS
Denver
JS,
The dreams are pretty difficult for a lot of people, I understand. I keep a Bible by my bed for those nights (and there a lot for me). Maybe you can find something that will bring you comfort.
I am so sorry for what you are going through and I'm praying for you!
LIS
Thanks, Jack, Thanks Denver, BITS is added. I feel better already.
Visited mom last night, we talked about the farm market she and my uncle had for a few years between the depression and WW2. She’s dealing like she always deals with crisis, ignore it, bury it, do not dwell on it, move out and get on with your life. Strong lady, she was in an abusive R with her 1st H. I and my sister are from her 2nd. M & D were part of the 20% or so that made their 2nd marriage work
JS,
How are YOU doing? Are you finding the detaching easier?
What did you do with the counterproposal from the attorney?
What was your last interaction with your wife?
I'm praying for you.
LIS
What does BITS mean?
I also had a bible next to my bed during the bad times. I would read it until I got tired enough to sleep, or just a passage or two. A magazine like Readers' Digest is also good .. lots of inspirational stories and the like.
Take care.
Hi LIS, Thank You for checking back. I am better than I was. Detaching is easier although I cannot say why.
For the last two weeks I have not seen W. We have interacted briefly several times. A couple of times it started with a text message and then became a phone call. It has usually been me canceling a house cleaning session. The most recent was this afternoon. I scheduled a DB coaching session and had to cancel this evenings cleaning. Texts from W have been single characters or as minimal as possible. Today instead of K or NP, I received No Problem, nothing to hang a hat upon, but more than usual.
I am sitting on the counter at least until I ask my L when I have to respond by. It has sat unopened in my inbox since Tuesday morning. I planned on tomorrow, but I want to slow this process down so I want to ask when I must respond by.
W comes by on Sat to clean I’ve been canceling these session for two weeks. Sat I’ll do my best to accomplish something with her and keep the tension low. The goal is to for her to leave feeling good about us working toward one of her goals.
Brothers (Babes I assume) In The Shi(t)
JS -
I am sorry that you find yourself here, but I gotta tell you, I'm a little sorry that you didn't show up sooner. You know what you've got going for you? A lot of wisdom. You could have saved me from my own stupidity a couple of times!!! I really appreciate the fact that you told daughter to be careful and back off. It would have been easier to let her continue, but you did and said absolutely the right thing. You are also absolutely right to try to delay the D for as long as possible so long as you are not causing more problems doing it.
The one thing you have to learn is that you need to hang onto ANYTHING positive. Her replies got longer? Well that's a baby step and that is positive. I have a journal of the positives in my situation. It helps me so when I get down, I feel better. I don't know if something like this will help you.
Honestly, JS, the goal you have is again, RIGHT ON. Make her feel good. Any idea what you are going to do to accomplish that?
You have so much to be proud of especially in how you are carrying yourself right now. How did the session go with the DB coach? What did he say?
BM -
I LOVE, LOVE, LOVE the Reader's Digest idea. You're right, there is a lot of inspirational stuff in there. I never thought to do that.
My prayers are with you. And we'll stay here and walk with you. You are going to be ok. First step is to BELIEVE that. Your GAL'ing is just plain awesome.
LIS
LS, Thanks for the kind words and encouragement, I have to say I don't think I deserve the praise. I am just another soul on this board trying to make my way. I make mistakes too.
Collectively we'll get through this. None of us is an island or will make it through trying to be one.
My coach agrees I need to make the time with W as positive as possible while giving her a sense of accomplishment doing something jointly. W wants to put the house in as positive a state as possible erasing the messes we allowed to creep in. We would have never qualified to be featured on one of those cable hoarding shows, but we were walking that path. So reducing the clutter, organizing, separating stuff into save, toss and sell is where this will probably go.
Snow on the trails has melted, so longer walks with the puppy while I look for something else.
Well, I read the counter proposal from my L. Strangely I do not feel as bad about it as I thought I would. I have to get it back to my L by next Tuesday. I’m sitting on it this weekend. I don’t think W will realize the long term impact until she lives it for a while. Long term planning is not a skill she is practiced in.
She has been rushing the D. Insisting it occurs yesterday, so I don’t think she has looked past it much. I think she sees it as a new beginning for her.
I am not going to let this get me down. I will not let this sitch control me. There are good people in this world and on this board going through far worse than this. Besides her L will likely make a counter, I would.
Sounds like my wife... she is convinced that all she wants is to get the divorce and move on. The only thing that I have thought to do was get her to that place as fast as possible so that she can see that it's not some magical cure all. Probably risky for me but if she thought that I was playing games to prolong our sitch I don't think that would help me at all.
Sounds like my wife... she is convinced that all she wants is to get the divorce and move on. The only thing that I have thought to do was get her to that place as fast as possible so that she can see that it's not some magical cure all. Probably risky for me but if she thought that I was playing games to prolong our sitch I don't think that would help me at all.
Tonight to lift my spirits I made a real meal. Got out a real plate knife fork etc., and enjoyed myself. Yeah I was alone, but it was the first real meal I’ve had in weeks. Well not entirely alone my little puppy hung out with me hoping for a scrap to fall.
Hello What Next, Yes I have considered giving W her time line, but I am not ready to do that yet. I am trying to slow this down to a pace I find acceptable, so I can face myself in the mirror and honestly believe I gave saving my M my best shot. I suppose I am being selfish here as this is for me. The old R is gone; it will take time to heal, before building a new one. This is part of my healing process.
Oh, that's good, JS! What did you have?? My H was the cook in our house so when he stopped cooking, I stopped eating. It was a great diet plan but alas, like you, I got hungry
I still think it is a good thing to try and slow things down. Again, so long as it doesn't provoke your wife further.
I was pretty worried about you opening the proposal... kind of lurking to see what would happened when you did (which is why I asked yesterday). You did great.
It really astounds me how well you are able to put things into perspective. However, you still need to let yourself feel the grief sometimes. You seem so strong to me, but I know that you are in a lot of pain. We're here for you, JS. I know this stinks. Keep up the DB'ing. They seem so in a rush for the D, but their long range planning isn't so good. Once that catches up with them, it usually slows down.
I'm praying for you!!!
LIS
Hi LIS, just a simple meal really, typical man fare meat potato, green beans, nothing fancy, still it was very nice to go through the rituals at the table.
Thanks for asking. I have added you to my prayers also. Sometimes I think we should have a users list to use.
Some days I do really well, posting here offering opinions trying to help, helps me. I grew up with a handicapped older sibling perhaps that experience helps a little bit too.
Post about W's visit to follow. I think it went well, it was not what I was expecting.
Well, W visit was strange; we haven’t seen each other in two weeks. I know many of you are separated by greater distances and longer times. I was expecting more of the manic gotta clean, gotta clean, I hate you, I am so much happier since I’ve run away from you. This was different.
W called twice to verify I’d be home and her visit would be ok. She came in, I held the puppy back until she had her coat off came into the house proper and seemed composed. The puppy greeted her warmly. She brought him a toy, commented how much he’s grown, and showered him with affection. She really misses him. He has been a surrogate child.
Mostly we talked about her new job and its challenges. I was able to validate a little bit about the stress of starting a new job, learning new people. She asked about the archery league. I told her about it briefly and asked more open ended questions about her. It was all small talk. She noticed I have removed couple/wedding related items from display, but did not comment. I removed them because they were depressing me. They are wrapped and boxed against the day we wish to display them again.
We went into the basement and looked around. We discussed what is left to organize and clean. She is still under the impression the house will remain to be a storage location, and I will maintain it as such. She wants to conduct an inventory of all of the house hold items and begin the process of dividing them. I told her I was not ready to do so today and left it open ended. She told me this is what the Divorce for Dummies book, website and her L have suggested as the next step. “Divorce for Dummies” if I wasn’t living this I’d think that part was from a sitcom.
She left saying she would visit my mom on the way home. That could get ugly. I pray it does not.
I did not achieve my goal of working on something tangible with her while keeping the interaction pleasant. Certainly we were pleasant, but I don’t think W feels a sense of accomplishment. I do, she asked about something I am doing, expressing an interest in me. Baby steps.
Ok, I want to take this as a small positive. What do you think?
Today I let a call on the home phone go to the machine. It was W she said her C has recommended a web support group “divorcecare.com”. They send out email encouragement and conduct meetings. She said she was not going to meetings but receiving the encouragements, but I might want to go to the meetings. I want to see this as a small positive, but am I grasping at straws here?
She could have called my cell. She knows it is on my hip pretty much at all times. It is a work cell I am expected to respond to. When she left the call I am normally out of the house CC skiing. So she could have been trying to avoid speaking with me. IDK maybe I am over analyzing.
Today has been a tough day. My cousin stopped by and we talked about this drama and little else rehashing everything is depressing.
Just an update to my sitch. This morning my L called and reminded me I need to approve the counter proposal. I have done so and sent it back to my L.
I don’t know how I am going to focus on work for the rest of today. I knew this was coming and I braced for it, doesn’t make it easier.
Small positives over the wkend that didn’t lift me much, now this big drop in my morale. Hope I can maintain bearing for the rest of the day.
Just another update. This morning was tough, but I managed to maintain bearing through the day. I went to lunch with two other co-workers. I haven’t done that in about 6 months. It got a little tough when one of them related aggravations from his recent D. I just kept silent. I felt a little sorry for him. He is harboring quite a bit of anger and resentment. I thought about mentioning this site but I am not ready to have open discussions at work about my sitch.
My boss knows, his boss and HR, but I have asked them to respect my privacy and not discuss this. There is quite a little gossip mill where I work and I’d prefer not to be a topic now.
JS -
Sorry for my disappearing act this weekend. I am so sorry, I know that this is quite the roller coaster ride.
I agree that keeping things private at work is of paramount importance. I made the same decision and kept my circle of people who knew of my situation as small as possible. It gave me more control over my emotions.
Tell me more about this divorcecare thing. Had she actually visited the website? They seem very pro-marriage to me so yes, I would agree that this is positive. You have to let this play out, though. When do the papers need to be back at the lawyer's office?
I'm praying for you.
LIS
I agree about keeping the circle of people who know about your sitch as small as possible. Unfortunately, I discovered about my H's EA, just before starting a new job. I couldn't concentrate, and would burst into tears and odd times. My boss knew that something was going on, and asked me, so I had to tell. We had a small team, so everyone knew by then. I am glad I told because they helped me to get calmed, and understood. I worked there for a year before moving to another city, but I remember those workmates very fondly.
It always depends on the circumstances, where you work, etc.
I do see a baby step in your wife giving you that web address. Do not, however, return the favour and give this one. This is for you to vent, and you won't be able to so worrying that she may be lurking.
LIS, BeingMe, thank you for posting. I know most of us were busy with our own drama this weekend. Do not worry, this site is for me. I worry a little bit about the DB FB presence but that comes more from weighing possible alternatives than what I actually know. I do not have a FB account. I don’t know how I’d handle it right now
She has visited the divorcecare site and signed up for their daily messages. The counter needed to be in her L hands by Friday. In this State if I do not counter within 30 days it is taken as a sign of agreement and she can file.
I am just taking this day by day right now. Archery league is tonight, gotta remember to loosen my grip on the bow. I am tending to torque a little bit to the right.
Pretty down right now. Not anyone thing just a lot of small things.
I fear I may have posted some poor advice in another thread.
The dog is hurt. I think he slipped on ice and injured his left shoulder. Income from W's check would have paid for the vet visit so right now I can only try and keep him calm and pray this is a soft tissue injury.
I shot poorly at the league tonight, just could not relax and focus. I guess I am still pretty shook up over the counter proposal.
Reading threads here is a bit of a rollercoaster too. I am up for up for Bolt, LIS and Denver, then down for Zen, KevinC and so many others. I need just a good nights sleep to fight this off and renew. No one promised me a rose garden. I'll regroup and be back.
I am back, a little better, needed to cave for a while.
Still not ready to join in, but I'll lurk on a couple of threads tonight and see how it goes.
Dog is still limping it seems worse just after he gets up than after he has been moving for a while.
Not much to report about my sitch. W sent a TM letting me know she would be busy tonight. Taking a Nephew to boy scout meeting and then a dinner with D.
I spoke with D last night about her dinner with W. She has seen me at some pretty low emotional points in the last few days and I asked her not to share these. She said she does not want to discuss anything about this sitch. She has mid terms coming up and needs to focus on them. She said she understood what I asked her and just wants to avoid the topic altogether. I asked her if she could checkout the DB FB page and let me know what she thinks. She understood that was for me and not W. I may have to get a FB account, though in this emotional state I don’t know if that is a good idea.
The thing that is affecting me so much is not having a reaction from the counter proposal. I don’t know if W’s L has even discussed it with her yet so it is too soon to expect a reaction. The counter is very different from what W asked for. It protects me as much as I can be protected, rewards her decision to D as soon as possible very little, and per my L is very realistic. He has been doing this for 30 yrs in this court so I have to trust his opinion on how realistic it is. I know I need to let go of expectations here. It will be what it will be.
I can feel the beginning of an illness probably the flu that has been going through the building at work. I hope not, but I may be off line for a few days if it is.
Hope you're not getting sick, Stunned. But, if you are, hope you get well soon. Make sure you eat healthily, and drink plenty of fluids. Being ill leaves one emotionally vulnerable, and you need to be strong right now.
Take care.
Thanks BeingMe, I'm living on OTC cold meds now, It doesn't seem like flu. I'm coping.
Journaling: Last night our D called me to let me know she was home after dinner with W. She said she was sick over all the emotions she felt prior to meeting W. She was calling off work and had a paper to turn in tomorrow. I wanted to discuss her meeting with her mom, but I didn’t think it would be good for her. So I suggested she unwind, rest and get some sleep, calling off work should give her a few hours in the morning to finish her paper.
I feel bad our sitch is affecting her so much, but there is little more I can do about it than I am doing now.
Mom is very worried and sad about my sitch. She’s trying to hide it from me. D told me she was crying after remembering how much work I, Dad and her put into building our house and that it’ll probably be lost. We personally built about 75%. I have an intimate acquaintance with all of the foundation, framing, roofing and some of the finish work. W helped where she could. I remember one rainy fall night W and I only managed to layup 12 blocks in the foundation before the rain forced us to give it up
Three weeks ago W is sitting on the other side of the room expounding on the changes she is making and the self help books she is reading. She was very animated about the changes and how good they are for her professionally.
Then virtually no contact for two weeks, I was dark and trying to be busy. Last week W asks about one of the GAL activities I am doing and tells me she is just working, watching TV and hanging out with family and FB friends. Aside from monthly camping trips with me and visiting DILs mother twice a week these are the activities she did in our R almost every night.
I need another GAL activity. One she will find fascinating. We went repelling together for the first time last summer. She loved it. I wonder what costs are involved in sky-diving. Hey if she can have her MLC maybe I should too.
One she will find fascinating.
Wrong reason.
jtb, yes you are right of course. I should GAL for me.
Trying to do something she would find fascinating or to be more interesting to her is only setting me up for disappointment and failure. Thank You.
Still if I can get a group together, I don’t want to rule out sky diving. I had orders to jump school may years ago. I had to forgo it. Dad had a stroke and I was needed at home. It is one of those unresolved, wish I had done it things from the past.
Jumping out of a plane was AWESOME!
Because it was a first time for me, having a guy strapped to my back? Not so awesome.
Considering I didn't like heights or ledges? Part of my GAL wa facing down my fears. Hell I almost got a trantula...but that plan was nixed by others.
I got home tonight and into the downward spiral again, big empty house, so many memories. I remember W complaining it would not be big enough and then later it is too big to keep clean. I felt better after praying.
I’ve spent the last couple of hours rereading DR for the umpteenth time. I need to find another book. I have seen a couple of suggestions here so to the book store I go tomorrow.
When W left last Sat, she said “see you next week”. She wants to begin the inventory of household items to divide. I think I will be busy tomorrow. I know she has an appointment to give blood at the Red Cross tomorrow. They called and left a message confirming it. They are just up the street. She hasn’t contacted me regarding a time to meet. So I think I will be busy away from the house most of tomorrow. It is a risk, she could decide to take another load of stuff, but at this point it is just stuff.
I am actually of two minds here. Going through an inventory and facing the reality of splitting it up, will be stressful for her also. Perhaps it would inject a dose of reality into la la land. Sorry I am frustrated. I need to prepare to do this and follow through else I might become emotive and blow it, another reason to be busy tomorrow.
BITS, help!
Does the WAS cycle like a MLC? Aspects of my sitch are like W is in a MLC, but she lacks the gotta be young and alone again aspect. I don’t expect any of this is written in stone, but does this make sense?
W wants to jump to being the grandparent/care giver of the grandchildren? There are no grandchildren yet. She is pressuring the kids and wants them to move in with her so she can care for them and the grandchildren when they are born. She is rushing the D so she can afford a small place to do this in. She is cashing out the last 29 yrs to gain this vision of life. There are insufficient funds to make this happen, but in her delusions of now she does not see it. She continues to believe we will all be friends and share family holidays together. We will vacation together for the grandchildren even after we have established new relationships with other people. That eventually we will see her wisdom and agree her decisions are best.
Arrrgh there is so much of this that is not based in reality. These posts are small. I could write a book.
Last night my D came by after work. She wanted to discuss her dinner with W. She is concerned W has returned to the angry blame him for all slights and problems state she was in 3 months ago. W wanted to discuss it, and D said she had to tell her firmly no I will not talk about this several times. Per my D, W was behaving like the angry rebellious 15 yr old again, and tried to give her money. I guess W is trying to recruit D to her side of this equation. DIL is firmly there. I hope to keep as much of this drama from our S as possible. He must remain firmly focused on his situational awareness when he deploys.
I know there are no right, or wrong sides here. My D is affected by this sitch and I am trying to be supportive. It is hugely tempting to lash out verbally and vilify W during these discussions. I have with some success kept from going there. I am only human and last night I had to stop myself several times. I tried to tell D that W making me the bad guy and vilifying me in front of family is normal for a WAS and should be expected. D and I agreed this discussion was not healthy for either of us and spoke about other things, like school, her plans for the future. I am very proud of her.
I am so fraking frustrated with all this. I still love W and want to make it out of this drama with the M intact working on building a new relationship. I thought I had made good progress to the goal of dialing down the drama and tension so we could at least have a friendly conv about mundane things, but with the anger W expressed during dinner with D that all seems to have been a pipe dream.
I know I am cycling through the stages of grief again. So the WAS must also cycle. I am trying to use the stage of MLC to grasp and make some sense of this.
Does the WAS ever come back to reality, or have they repeated their fantasy so many time it becomes reality?
Journaling: no direct contact with W since the 19th, TM on the 22nd no reply to TM from me. No need.
I visited Mom today and tried to allay some of her anxiety. I was not very successful. She knows I am trying to protect her.
Had a nice TM conv with my son before I left Mom’s house she was happy he checked in and is ok. He became a member of the same mil branch as I did years ago. He is freezing at night, training at a base I was stationed at. I know how cold the nights there can get this time of year. We kept the conv focused away from this sitch and on what he is doing to increase his comfort level at night. It felt hollow to not discuss this with him, but he needs to be able to focus on what he is doing.
I know this is not related to W or my sitch, but it helps me to put it down. W was not my whole world, though I was not as detached from her as she needed me to be. We share culpability on that. My psychic powers have not worked in years.
When I first signed onto this board, I lurked and copied threads to review later. A lot of what I was going through was overwhelming so I copied things I thought might have meaning to digest later. I keep reading and absorbing. I have recently read again a thread titled Sermons. I cannot give credit to the poster, but I thank them for putting it up.
It has helped me accept that the fifteen year old persona that W is displaying is part of her MLC, and not a psychic break into another personality. I don’t know how to deal with it, but acceptance may make it easier. I do wonder how her support group views this persona. Possibly as a stress induced reaction? IDK and probably never will.
IMO her stated goal of owning a small place to raise the grandchildren is a return to motherhood. This was a period in our marriage when we were very happy. Especially when the children were small and we could show them the world. I never looked at how we became surrogate parents to the nieces and nephews in that light but in retrospect it makes a sort of sense.
W had huge emotional problems in 2007 when our son announced his intention to become a Marine. She blamed me for his decision. She was understandably proud watching him graduate and seemed at ease while he attending training. Very nervous during his first deployment, then angry and upset when he married without giving us an opportunity to attend.
This latest upset began during our sons Christmas leave about two days after he told his mom of his upcoming deployment. During Christmas she purchased several EPTs and asked DIL to see if she was pregnant. She told the kids of her intention to D during this time and then dropped the bomb on me, 1-1-2011.
I am attempting to put a timeline around all of this. Not in anticipation of an end point, but to help me get my head around it. I have less hope now than before, but I have placed my faith in my God to resolve this. I pray for an opportunity to work on establishing a new relationship, I love this woman. I hope she resolves her issues and decides to work on it with me someday soon, but if not I will flourish.
I am GALing, we are dark, perhaps to dark. I have detached enough that the emotional rollercoaster is less and of shorter durations. Suggestions of other things to better me and comments are welcome
"Suggestions of other things to better me and comments are welcome"
Play a musical instrument just for the fun of it:
http://www.webmd.com/balance/stress-management/features/how-making-music-reduces-stress
Suggestions of other things to better me
Classes.
Soemthing that always intrigued you.
My favorite?
What fear(s) do you posses?
Phobia?
Right now Just, right now?
Nothing hurts likes this. It is all consuming.
Your fears are silly compared to this.
Face them down.
Afraid of spiders? Go to Petco, get up close to the glass, buy that suck put it in a glass cage somewhere in your house.
Afraid of heights? Tallest building in town, go up and look down.
Afraid of rollercoasters, get on a real one, not this self made on based upon emotions.
Afraid of water? Join the Y learn to swim.
Don't just beat your fears...destroy them.
InAPickle lol, there is a goat skin headed djembe over in the corner; I not have played in years. I’ll have to see what I remember.
Jack, makes me wonder how W would react to a big old hairy T lol
Thanks.
So give me a moment to vent. I am so angry and resentful I could spit in W face.
I know this will pass. Even now it is leaving. I was returning from leagues tonight. It is about a 20 minute drive and you know how ones mind can wander on familiar roads. I shot just below my average. It is not the fault of this sitch. My form fell apart on the last 10 arrows. I even had target panic once and shot a flier. I felt bad letting my partner down as he was shooting below his average also and needed me to pick up the points. So after diagnosising why I failed to improve my average I began to think about this sitch.
I became increasing resentful over how selfish W is now. I know this is a manifestation of her state of mind, but this rationalization is not helping now. It is terrible to say, but honestly a part of me wishes she is hurting as much as I am.
I have prayed for calmness and strength to let this negative go. I picked up the djembe and banged out a few rhythms. I am very very very rusty. It was terrible. I will fix myself a drink and lurk here for a bit. I hope to gain strength from you all. I am not a regular drinker, but I am going to have one, maybe two to relax.
Listen man. Every WAS puts on a brave front. It goes with the role of being the bomb dropper. Trust me they are in just as much anxiety and confusion as anyone else living a crisis mode. This is a crisis for them as well as all of us; remember that.
For my sitch, it turned out W was bound and determined to get out of the M. Once she makes it all legal, we'll see if that makes life any better for. No one can convince her that in the fog she's in, really nothing like that is the real answer to happiness. But she'll never find out until she goes thru it.
It may be a relief at first, but after she checks off a few items on her bucket list her eyes will probably begin to open. It may be too late by then; who knows? I'm not getting any younger, and I have my life to live.
Thanks for the response, intellectually I know this is true, and I am coming to grips that she may need to complete her journey before rethinking her decision. Long range planning and delayed gratification never were her strong suits.
The cycles of anger and resentment I feel are lessoning in intensity. I guess I am moving slowly to acceptance. I know I will cycle back several more times and I pray I don’t melt down.
It is aggravating that before her are examples of where she will crash and burn, one SIL and several cousins, but she is certain that it won’t happen to her. We used to talk about their sitchs and promised each other we wouldn’t let US arrive at that point. We chose each other and we chose to make the relationship work.
She has now chosen not to, and is attempting to gain as much as possible despite the havoc created among other loved ones. The pain caused because she doesn’t see or seeing, doesn’t care is the hurdle we are all trying to get past. That I can only deal with my pain and cannot shelter others is frustrating. I have always been the rock others anchor to. It was one of the things she was attracted to and family relied upon. This role gave me solace and only in private moments would I share my pain with her. Now I share my pain with this board, my sister and one cousin.
From the point of view of this sitch I am just marking time waiting for the fog to clear. Detachment is increasing and patience I have so I will mark time.
I am filling my days with work, and other activities some GAL and some daily maintenance like playing with the dog. I am acting as if I have moved on. Sometimes I think I have and other times like last night it is a bigger facade than I can easily maintain.
I posted MWD's New Year's Resolutions before,
but they are worth a second look at.
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/divo...busters-edition
Pickle, thanks, I printed and posted them where I will see them, but W will not.
Journaling: visited mom last night. She told me I just missed W. Mom did not elaborate about Ws visit. I found out later from our D that mom lashed out verbally at W as W was leaving. The outcome from that remains to be seen.
W attempted to find an apartment and asked one of the SILs to move in with her. The SIL declined. I understand the SIL thinks W needs to move out of AuntIL house and get on her own. That his might cause her to crash and begin to understand the havoc she is creating in the family.
IDK, when I met W she had run away from home and been on her own for several years. The struggles she went through then had only firmed her resolve to stay out of her parent’s home. I have no control about any of this so it is pointless to worry about it.
There was another report of drama from la la land that indicates all is not rosy. Just minor cracks in Ws plan. I think the debt 2X4 is swinging. I take no joy or solace from this. I pray for Ws well being and peace of mind.
One of the nieces will be home from college this weekend. She wants to spend sometime with me. We almost adopted her when her mother was hospitalized, and we have always been close. I understand she is taking this drama pretty hard also.
Postings in another thread created the following thoughts. I posted a little of this there, but where it applies to my sitch I decided to place it here.
In my sitch though I was trying to make W happy I was hovering and crowding her. I was too attached. This worked early in our M as she played the damsel and I played the knight. She does not know now how to be happy, because I never enabled her to grow. She needed me to detach. She tried to tell me, but not in a manner I understood so I did not.
As you move through this journey improving yourself do not make my mistakes. Grow and sustain your changes so your W can grow also.
As she became increasing unhappy in our R she assigned blame to me. I continued to try and do what I had always done. As the frustration grew I became angrier. The angrier I became the further she retreated to the point of running away. She is now the damsel again waiting for another knight to rescue her.
I cannot be knight to her damsel. This is a cheese less hole. She needs to grow and improve herself before we can think about reconciling. Problem is she is not improving. I have not had recent contact contact, but family that has tells me she is playing the damsel in distress to them, seeking solace and sympathy.
I still want a chance at a new R with her, but I must wait for her to be ready. How long? Until I am done. Would an EA or PA make me done? I don’t know, it would be tough, but I don’t think so.
I think I have identified two things we would need before any MC could be effective. Hold the 2X4s I am not attaching hope to any of this as it is too premature. I know this is too early to really think about or apply much planning to, but I have always been the planner.
The trust between us has been destroyed and needs to be rebuilt. I have no idea how to begin this but a good MC should have suggestions.
W needs to be able to find happiness within her. I cannot affect this she needs to grow into it.
She's 49, and she ran into an old crush from High School last fall. She made a big deal out of friending him on FB and telling her life story. His third marriage is crumbling. I am not ready to face my fears about that yet.
I see that nobody has mentioned this to you that running into an old flame is a textbook reason a wayward starts acting like your wife is acting. I would encourage you to face that fear and face it NOW.. My suspicion is this "old crush" is the reason for the change in your wife...
Do your homework. I know you want to believe it is MLC. Wanting to believe something doesn't make it so.
Don't underestimate the power of an ex lover or crush coming into the picture after years apart. It happens all the time.
Problem is she is not improving.
This not your problem Stunned. It is hers.
You can't do anything about it.
I know you want to believe it is MLC. Wanting to believe something doesn't make it so.
MLC or sh!tstorm crisis in your M?
Call it what you want it makes no difference and it not an excuse to be a victim of bad behavior.
It may explain the behavior and that is all so the situation is you have a crisis in your M.
Look in the mirror and own up to your part.
I see you doing that. Your R with your W evolved into a codependent one where you saved and protected her from herself.
That doesn't work as you know.
She feels inferior and loses her own self esteem and begins to resent you.
You get angry when she doesn't make better choices...
Then
She will seek someone else who doesn't make her feel that way and the cycle starts all over again...
Until.
She looks inside herself and takes responsibility for her own happiness and stops blaming everyone but herself.
Until that happens for her it will only mean more of sh!tstorm for you.
So what are you prepared to do in your life while she figures this out...
because she will or she won't on her own time.
Yours?
Is your choice.
I can only tell you that the time I have given to my own situation has been a gift to myself.
I have found answers to questions I would not have even known to ask if I hadn't chosen to give time to this process.
Gucci, thank you for pointing out that pitfall. Since I posted that I have given it quite a bit of thought. I have not snooped or coerced family to discover if there is an affair. I have no evidence one exists. I admit it is possible. Though it is possible, I suspect if this is going on it is more EA at this stage. If this old HS crush is involved it is probably as a C. He is a rape, abuse counselor heavily involved in one of the local churches. It is a huge conflict of interest though; I’ll admit stranger things happen daily.
I would expect her support group to evaporate if she could not be very discrete. These actions and the consequences of them are for her to worry about when she realizes them. I realize how that sounds and I am certain if true I will be affected, but I will survive and eventually flourish.
I can waste no energy worrying about this. It changes little in how I approach what I need to do. W and I have a huge history together with many good memories; eventually W will recall these or complete her rewrite of history. I have no control over this and if I am involved in trying to remind her it only damages the effort.
I am better for W than any other man W meets and getting better daily. If she does not eventually realize this another women will when I am ready to move on.
Grit, every once in a while I have difficulty understanding your posts, probably because you are posting to someone else about specifics in their sitch. I do not have that problem with this one.
So what are you prepared to do in your life while she figures this out...
because she will or she won't on her own time.
More of what I am doing now. Delay the D as long as possible, continue GAL, I’ll join the archery club in a few weeks. In April see if the local junior college still offers a fencing PE class. Remain as connected as possible to family without discussing this sitch. Post to this board. Get on with life.
Stunned
That sounds like a good plan...
Keep steppin'
If anything I write here or anywhere that you don't understand please point it out.
I have been where you are now but it was a year ago now.
You sound like you have a good perspective on what is happening and what you control.
I can waste no energy worrying about this. It changes little in how I approach what I need to do.
I didn't say to "worry" about it. It most certainly should change the way you approach things. The man who doesn't change his game plan based on the circumstances and facts is wasting time and energy.
W and I have a huge history together with many good memories; eventually W will recall these or complete her rewrite of history. I have no control over this and if I am involved in trying to remind her it only damages the effort.
You sound like you are just making talking points and quoting what you have heard from others. You DO have some control over this. The way you act, respond and handle this can very well help you OR hurt you. So, stop talking like that. You DO have some control over this.