Divorcebusting.com
Posted By: InAPickle Need Insight III - 12/16/10 03:15 PM
Well my second thread seems to be locked.
Here's the link:

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2109919&page=11

Thanks for posting everyone.
From all I have read, I think I have already "detached" or "dropped the rope".

I am living my GAL and just waiting for W to either file for D or come to senses. Just waiting it out. My atty recommended that I not do anything until she files and serves.

Next "talk" I expect will be her wanting to go cheap and use the same atty to which I will remind her that I do not want the D and if she want's it, she must file. I have the most bad ass D lawyer in town lined up.

She knows legal costs will exhaust all our meager savings, so that will ruin any silver lining to the outcome. She also knows that I intend to tell all D is her choice and not mine, which does not sit well with her, but it's the truth.
Posted By: Ruikee Re: Need Insight III - 12/16/10 04:37 PM
I am in the same predicament, but i have not seen a lawyer, not sure she has but i do not think so. Issue i am really having is she has viewing access to my bank account. She is logging in every evening like at 1am which tells me she isnt sleeping very well. But if she says it is over, then why checking up on what i am spending my money on. Last time we seperated she was doing the same thing, i changed the password and she said it was just a way to control her. She doesnt do anything malicious just checking, i dont really want to tick her off. any ideas?
Posted By: pookie69 Re: Need Insight III - 12/16/10 05:02 PM
Change the password. It is not controlling, it is protecting yourself.
Posted By: Jack_Three_Beans Re: Need Insight III - 12/16/10 05:17 PM
Rukiee,

It is your account right, not hers? She doesn't contribute to it?
If she has the password, she can do far more than just look at it.

Your wife was upset and based upon the last time will likely be upset if you change the password, because it is controlling?
It is NOT controlling, you did it or you're doing it because you don't trust her.

It is a matter of trust not control, and right now, is she worthy of trust? Is she seeking to be trustworthy?

If no, then you have your answer.

Will it upset her? Well, she'll get upset, her choice.

It will be something she'll have to get over, and you're going to hear about it. It will be an issue when you guys talk.
Posted By: Ruikee Re: Need Insight III - 12/16/10 06:36 PM
Originally Posted By: Jack_Three_Beans
Rukiee,

It is your account right, not hers? She doesn't contribute to it?
Correct
If she has the password, she can do far more than just look at it.
I do not think so but possibly.

Your wife was upset and based upon the last time will likely be upset if you change the password, because it is controlling?
It is NOT controlling, you did it or you're doing it because you don't trust her.
I have never not trusted her except that she has left breaking our vows of being together in good times and bad.

It is a matter of trust not control, and right now, is she worthy of trust? Is she seeking to be trustworthy?
Not sure of any of her intentions. But you are right i dont think she is doing it to seek my trust.

If no, then you have your answer.

Will it upset her? Well, she'll get upset, her choice.

It will be something she'll have to get over, and you're going to hear about it. It will be an issue when you guys talk. Possibly but we only talke about the baby right now and thats about it.
Posted By: Ruikee Re: Need Insight III - 12/16/10 06:37 PM
answers embedded in quote, have to figure out how to do each one.
Posted By: InAPickle Re: Need Insight III - 12/17/10 06:41 PM
Alright I'm taking back my thread.

So this is the big weekend. I've spoken to a paralegal who works for the most expensive lawyer in town. (Couldn't afford the lawyer) He could not give me "advice" per se, but hepled with interesting info.

I'm in a no fault 50/50 split state so there's no "grounds" to speak of, which minimizes W's affair. That said, I cannot do anything that can be construed as "firing the first shot" like taking money out of our joint savings and putting it a private account, or packing all her stuff in boxes etc. etc. These kinds of things would only hurt my defense that I do not want to end the marriage. They could easily be twisted and used against me in D court.

Basically, I act like I'm married. That makes sense, but also looks a bit like being a "doormat". Still I gotta do what's best for moi and kids. I have noticed that W has beeing trying to "provoke me". I don't know whether or not she's being advised (smells like) but the things she says and does seem aimed at getting me to fire a shot. So I've got to keep my cool.

I am amazed at how quickly things have detoriated.
Posted By: Truegritter Re: Need Insight III - 12/18/10 01:36 AM
Originally Posted By: Pickle
That makes sense, but also looks a bit like being a "doormat".


Pickle you will see I say this alot.

You are doormat IF you think you ARE are doormat.

You are not a doormat for standing up for what you believe and want.

Your W is going to do what she is going to do.

Does that define you? Is she really wiping her boots on you?

You decide.

Does that make you a doormat?

Only if you let her actions and choices make it so.

Who controls that?

Protect yourself.

Our State unfortunately is not the best for advocating waiting in a marriage.

I am not a lawyer but your sitch is what it is.

Time is not your friend if it is a new marriage but the long term ones ...

It is not going to change in a year.

The detioration?

How much of that are you in control of?

Deal with that part of it Pickle.

You didn't get here overnight so it ain't gonna get solved overnight.

Don't read into the quickness of your M detioration.
Posted By: InAPickle Re: Need Insight III - 12/18/10 04:22 AM
No, I don't feel like a doormat.
I'm divorcebusting.
From what I have been reading, I would judge my WAW to be in a MLC. She displays some of the characteristics. This of course is bad news, because there's no telling how long it will last. Half way through it all there just might be a D. Just don't know. Can't believe a word she says or does. I could get served next month or next year or not at all. That's the difficult part, patience and uncertainty and in between a lot of hurtfulness.
Posted By: InAPickle Re: Need Insight III - 12/18/10 03:43 PM
Starting to really feel the anguish.
Can't stop thinking about W in the sack w/OM
Trying to keep occupied, cleaning house, laundry, anything.
Need you guys to pray for me - now!!
Posted By: mrbt Re: Need Insight III - 12/18/10 03:56 PM
Originally Posted By: InAPickle
Starting to really feel the anguish.
Can't stop thinking about W in the sack w/OM
Trying to keep occupied, cleaning house, laundry, anything.
Need you guys to pray for me - now!!


Pickle, I am sorry you are in this situation. This probably doesn't help much, but you are not alone. Myself and others are in the same situation.

So far today, I swept the floor, cleaned litter the litter box, started some laundry. All the while wondering if wife is Christmas shopping with OM.

I've been told it gets better - I sure hope so.
Posted By: mrbt Re: Need Insight III - 12/18/10 03:57 PM
BTW. I need to update my signature. We are not divorced yet -- wife left 10 days ago.
Posted By: angel61 Re: Need Insight III - 12/18/10 10:42 PM
Will pray for you. I understand, when my H went to visit OW, I was so distressed that I even ran a red light cause I was crying while driving and got a $520 ticket!

Do not let your imagination run wild. Sometimes, it is not as bad as we think.

YOu can try to be busy to get your mind off it, or again, you can just pull the covers over your head and cry at hoe, sometimes that is also helpful.

But do not forget to take care of your kids.

My D11, early in our sitch, once told me: "You have a problem, Mom, and I know its Dad. Dad has a problem too. Both of you are giving me a problem. You are not taking care of me..."
Posted By: InAPickle Re: Need Insight III - 12/18/10 11:44 PM
Shouldn't have done laundry.
I noticed she packed her intimates, teddy, thongs, thigh highs, garters. That's what's driving me keep busy.
How can our spouses treat us like this.
For better for worse.
Just shoot me.
Posted By: Coach Re: Need Insight III - 12/19/10 12:36 AM
Quote:
How can our spouses treat us like this.


You have a choice in how people treat you.
Posted By: Coach Re: Need Insight III - 12/19/10 12:46 AM
Sandi posted this yesterday on Kempers thread. You wife doesn't have to chase you,she is off with another man and you are at home washing and folding her laundry.

Quote:
IMO, the only reason a woman would look at another man with interest is b/c she is not completely happy/satisfied with the R she is in with OM. This woman's emotions are all over the place and she doesn't know who she wants. She doesn't even know what she wants. She is making decisions and acting out of her emotions. So, to say she's unstable is an understatement, but typical in these cases.

I know if my H had stopped pursuing me and started showing interest in anothere woman....I would have dropped all interest in OM and my attention would have been completely on what was taking place with my H & OW. He would have suddenly looked more attractive if another woman wanted him. But here is the the most importatnt part....if I had flirted enough to show H I might be interested in making our M work.....and then he dropped OW right then (without much effort on my part), then I think my interest in getting him back might not hold very long. It has a lot to do with the "chase". Being men, you should know that the chase is such an important part of the courtship. If the girl can be swayed too easily.....well, it just takes the wind out of your sail,doesn't it? Much more interesting if there is enough wind to fuel that boat and keep it going.

Keeping a nice distance between you and the woman. Letting her see you once in a while and letting the sexual attraction build.....causing her desire for you to deepen....that's important.

Here's the thing that I don't understand about teenagers today.....and even young adults. They don't appreciate the dating game. They don't play the field. It's like they want a solid committment before going out on a date. Takes the fun of the chase & mystery out of it, if you ask me.

I had some good looking boys that wanted to date me in school, but there was something that was lacking. You see, good looks isn't everything. There has to be a chemistry between the couple, or at least for the girl. I remember going out with a guy who was crazy about me....but I felt like he was my cousin. I couldn't even kiss him. Nice guy, nice looks.....but just no chemistry.

The biggest thing that would turn me off was for a guy to be sniffing around me. Sometime I wondered if I would see slobber dripping off his chin. (lol)....no, just kidding a little. I liked that guy that stood over to the side who wasn't looking at my boobs, but was looking into my eyes and had a little hint of a message there in that look.
That was what attracted me to my H. I wanted to learn more about what made him tick!

That old saying about men & women is as true today as it was from the beginning of time. "He chased the girl unil she caught him". Be very subtle, and let her "work" to catch you.
_________________________
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Posted By: Coach Re: Need Insight III - 12/19/10 12:48 AM
This is from Lisa Lost today.

Quote:
My Husband actually left me the first time with a huge mortgage and 4 kids in a town with no family and took the money with him as he moved right in with another woman! I know how u are feeling, I had to think about him sleeping in the bed with her ans sharing a home with her while he was still married to me. But when I pulled back and started GALing, it was on!! He went nuts asking where I was, why was I dressed nice, who was calling me since they heard we had seperated.
Posted By: Truegritter Re: Need Insight III - 12/19/10 01:04 AM
Pickle

Some good advice up there ^^^

The sooner you stop looking and acting like you just got kicked in the cowboys...

The sooner you will feel better.

And maybe.

Maybe.

Your W will see it. But do it for you.

The only way through this, is through it.

Thinking about her and OM will just send you spinning.

So you have to stop it when it comes into your head.

Easier said than done. We all know. But it can and must be done.
Posted By: InAPickle Re: Need Insight III - 12/19/10 03:54 AM
Wish I knew some single women - I guess.
All my friends who happen to be women also happen to be happily married. Some of them are real fantasy material, but I'd never.

No, I've been fighting the thoughts. Posting them helps.
I journal a little and vent a little and it helps.

Tonight I enjoyed watching my Penn State girls vollyball team win a fourth straight NCAA title with my S11. Wonderful TV

Now if the Jaguars can knock off the Colts tomorrow and win the NFC south, W will be a distant memory - for at least a while.
Posted By: sandi2 Re: Need Insight III - 12/19/10 08:15 AM
Guess I'm not much help, but I always thought "where" you met the woman says something about her. KWIM?
Posted By: InAPickle Re: Need Insight III - 12/19/10 12:10 PM
Whoops, I meant AFC south.
Posted By: InAPickle Re: Need Insight III - 12/19/10 01:26 PM
Originally Posted By: sandi2
Guess I'm not much help, but I always thought "where" you met the woman says something about her. KWIM?



No - what do you mean?

All my friends are from church.

I met W 19 yrs ago at church singles group.

I don't socialize w/ people from work 'cause they remind me of work - no single attractive women anyway - very small company.
Posted By: sandi2 Re: Need Insight III - 12/19/10 05:55 PM
I will probably have some to disagree b/c anyone (such as your W) come from church-going background and still do a lot of wrong. But I think if a person goes and picks up a woman at a bar, for example, maybe he shouldn't be shocked if her standards aren't what he is wanting in a woman.

I knew a girl who met her future H in a bar, went home with him the first night. Then when she decided to get back in church, she was very disappointed that he had no interest and wanted to go out and be with the party crowd.

That's all I meant.
Posted By: InAPickle Re: Need Insight III - 12/20/10 08:24 PM
Alright.
W comes home tonight from weekend w/OM
How do I keep my cool?
Posted By: InAPickle Re: Need Insight III - 12/20/10 09:05 PM
Guess a little background on this trip might help.
Thurs nite she's packing.
So I said, "You're really going to do this?"
She says, "Hope you're not planning anything stupid."
Which I understood to mean packing her stuff and putting it in the yard and/or exposing her to all out friends and family.
I said, "No I don't have to do anything."
"What do you mean by that?"
"What you're doing is wrong, and you'll pay the price."
Then the convo somehow drifted to D talk.
I said, "You want it, you file."
I know it was hostile and provocative, but she pushed my buttone again.
I honestly don't know what to do when she shows up.
Posted By: Denver_2010 Re: Need Insight III - 12/21/10 03:51 AM
I don't envy what you have to deal with tonight IAP. On one hand, you should be p*ssed as all hell. On the other, you want to save your M. I wish that I knew what to tell you other than don't show your anger. That never helps with anything.
Posted By: angel61 Re: Need Insight III - 12/21/10 04:37 PM
Hi Pickle,

When my H came back from his fist visit to OW he was very quiet, and I did not ask him too much. Luckily, I had my first therapist appointment that week, and she told me to remember that I could not control my H actions, only mine, so I was able to concentrate on controlling my feelings.
I asked my H in an even tone how his trip went, and he started to talk to me about it, and although every word was like a nail driven through my flesh, I listened carefully without getting angry.
In the end, he told me that he was fully expecting me to hit him, and he was surprised I did not. He also said that it was more an more a complicated situation and that it would be really hard to imagine anything coming out of it.
I don't know if my calmness had anything to do with it, but maybe if I got angry or hit him it would have been easier for him to say that we should D.
Posted By: InAPickle Re: Need Insight III - 12/21/10 06:01 PM
Well W showed up around 6:30 PM. Said hello, she interacted with the kids.
I had already fed them dinner, so I finished up what I was doing,
and about 7:00 PM I left to visit a friend and confidant. I had to get outta there quick, 'cause I couldn't stand the sight of her.

I just said I'm going to do some shopping, which I fully intended but spent the next couple hours with my buddy venting, drinking beer and puffing on cigars. It was damn cold outside, so that didn't last as long as I would have liked. Got back home about 9:30 PM and started posting here, then off to bed.

I went to work today early, She's a teacher so she's off with the kids. Around lunchtime she calls my cell while I am browsing in a store, telling me she's shopping w/a friend and what she bought for S11, to make sure I didn't get the same stuff. She got a little tongue twisted and I sensed her fight some emotion, couldn't tell what, so I cut it short, "I didn't buy the same stuff; see ya later."

So I go to the gym and work out and then head home for lunch, thinking she's still out and about 'cause when she's shopping it's usually marathon. Nope, I get home, she's there. Crap! I nuke a hot pocket and leave, "I'm off, gotta go."

And here I am, I don't want to be on the same planet with her right now.
Posted By: angel61 Re: Need Insight III - 12/21/10 07:32 PM
Looks like she wants to talk...seeing she is hanging around, staying at home, calling you. Maybe things did not go too well with OM, or else she would be in 7th heaven. I think you are right to push it off for now, especially if you are feeling that way. You'll just end up being angry. But aren't you curious? I would be...
Looking back, there were 2x my H visited OW. The first time he acted like your W when he got back, and I learned that the visit was dissapointing for him, and caused him to feel closer tio me, almost reassuring me that he was on a journey back home, he even said that he felt he had turned around and was heading back. The 2nd time when he left we were actually close, when he came back he was so distant, and later I learned that at that time OW was almost reciprocating, and he was very happy with her during that visit, and so in my mind I pictured him as walking away again.
Posted By: Denver_2010 Re: Need Insight III - 12/21/10 07:44 PM
Don't mean to hijack IAP's thread, but I am wondering if Sandi, Trugritter, Bond, and/or Sad But Happy would mind taking a look at my thread? You all seem to give really good advice and support... both of which I could really use right now. The thread is "Need advice and support to keep hope" Thanks.

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2115113#Post2115113
Posted By: InAPickle Re: Need Insight III - 12/21/10 07:52 PM
Right now I am not curious.
Anything she says about the weekend, even if it was disaster, would push daggers into my heart. I am being brutally honest about not wanting to be on the same planet with her right now.
Posted By: Denver_2010 Re: Need Insight III - 12/21/10 10:51 PM
I don't blame you at all! I would be so p*ssed off. I don't know how you kept yourself from packing all of her stuff and putting it in the driveway. You are showing more strength for your children than I may possess. You are definitely the better person in this sitch.
Posted By: InAPickle Re: Need Insight III - 12/22/10 03:57 AM
I don't even want to touch her knowing she's been with OM.
Posted By: Denver_2010 Re: Need Insight III - 12/22/10 06:33 AM
Tonight one my friends called saying that he needed to talk to me. He had spoken with my BIL earlier today and was told about OM. My friend didn't know anything about OM. BIL told him about it and how much time my wife is spending with the guy. That she has even 'crashed' at his place. She still claims that nothing physical is going on. On one hand I believe her bc she has always had very high moral standards. On the other hand, I'm not stupid and I am now well versed in the WAW behaviors from this board.

The truth is that no one knows what is actually happening bw wife and OM except for them. My problem is that I am absolutely consumed by thoughts of what MAY be happening. I can't get it out of my mind. Hearing of this conversation bw friend and BIL took me back about 10 steps in trying to detach. I am so sad and sick with worry right now that I can't express it in words. The idea of my wife with OM is destroying me.

I wish that I could just hate her and begin to end this pain!! I still love her though and I also know that I did a lot to push her into the mental state that she is. I am blaming myself for what is happening. I feel that I need to actively forgive her as this is going on for that reason. It just hurts so badly.

I'm sorry for hijacking your thread IAP, but you and I are in somewhat similar situations. I'm also sorry for being so pathetic. I am normally very strong and confident. But I feel so weak, sad, and betrayed right now...
Posted By: Denver_2010 Re: Need Insight III - 12/22/10 07:21 AM
"I am in a business that has been struggling for a couple of years; let me tell you it takes its toll. The stress is enough to hurt your R even if it is unintentional. I used to complain about my W's spending, but did not want to discuss the job w/her to keep her from worrying - my mistake. I probably should have shared more and kept her "partnership" in our R. I don't have any advice to give, but you may want to assure your H that you are standing by him for "better or worse". Beneath the passion and romance you have to have a foundation of partnership and respect for each other. My W and I lost that and became too independent of each other, and then things spiraled out of control. The OM came along just when she was having a MLC and was vulnerable. Now I have a deep hole to dig our R out of."

I just saw this post from you on another thread. I am amazed how similar your situation is to mine. My biz has been struggle for the past 2 years too. I shielded my wife from what was going on with that and with our personal finances, yet I was suffering from the effects of the stress and became distant. We too became too independent of one antoher and things got out of control. OM came along while she was vulnerable and here we are!

I am being very hard on myself for not seeing this as it was occurring. I consider myself a smart person, yet I totally missed the boat with the thing that is most important to me.

How are you dealing with your role in what occurred? I am having a really hard time.
Posted By: InAPickle Re: Need Insight III - 12/23/10 04:04 AM
Well it's all water under the bridge now.
We just have to move forward.
Like they say "hindsight is 20/20".

We haven't "talked" since the weekend.
I've been avoiding her like the plague.
I know I don't think I can keep my cool right now.
Besides, let her sweat, I know she's got some emotions happening.
And I want to make Christmas happy for the kids.
I am detaching from her "drama".

If she comes to her senses fine, and if she files for D fine.
I am prepared to deal with both in due course.
My hope is the former of course, but I cannot allow myself to think of "what might happen." only whats' going on from day to day. Either way it's going to take a lot of time and patience.

It's difficult to gauge anyone in a MLC and an EA, so I'm not going to spend a whole lot of time thinking (fretting) about it.
Posted By: Denver_2010 Re: Need Insight III - 12/23/10 10:21 AM
Originally Posted By: InAPickle

If she comes to her senses fine, and if she files for D fine.
I am prepared to deal with both in due course.
My hope is the former of course, but I cannot allow myself to think of "what might happen." only whats' going on from day to day. Either way it's going to take a lot of time and patience.

It's difficult to gauge anyone in a MLC and an EA, so I'm not going to spend a whole lot of time thinking (fretting) about it.


I want to be where you are with all of this very, very soon. I feel like I have moments where I feel somewhat detached and strong, but then those moments are so easily replaced by that sick feelling and fear of losing W forever.

Had a fairly long text msg conversation with my W tonight. It was mostly negative in that she reiterated that we are finished and that she has trust issues with me that she doesn't believe could be resolved. But I did take some positive out of it in that she showed the emotion of anger when she realized that I was having a simultaneous text conversation with a friend. I didn't tell her who I was having this conversation with and she immediately became angry and asked me if it was my girlfriend. WTF! Here she is spending tons of time with OM in an EA that she claims to only be friendship and she accuses me of wrong doing without any evidence to back her up! BTW, there is no g/f. But it was at least encouraging that she still cares about the idea of me being with someone else. So she angrily said that she was going to file for divorce soon and that we could save time if I filed with her. To which, I gave her a 'dropping the rope' speech that I found on here on another threat:

"I've told you before that I still love u and still think that we an have a great life together as both a couple and a family. I have not changed my mind on that. But I understand that you are not happy, that u don't feel happy or complete inside. U need to do what will make u happy. By my side, we can be partners and will share everything and we would do anything to help one another. But that's only if we continue as a team. but I won't stand in your way, but also won't help u leave this marriage or our family. I hope that u do find happiness u r looking for. go do what u need to do. You know where I will be."

I felt like I kind of took some control back with that and let her know that I AM beginning to come to terms with her wanting a divorce. But that if she wants it, she's going to have to do the work.

Anyway, that's my update. Keep up the good work!
Posted By: angel61 Re: Need Insight III - 12/23/10 06:43 PM
Hey, YOU are getting there! The detaching, I mean.

Its a process, and it comes in small bits and pieces. There will be days that you are totally attached to your spouse' coming and goings. Right now, with Christmas and D11's bday coming up, I am again turning into an emotional wreck.

Hang in there, go shopping, and have a good Christmas!
Posted By: InAPickle Re: Need Insight III - 12/23/10 06:58 PM
"Hang in there, go shopping, and have a good Christmas!"

Thanks Angel, You too.
I visited your thread at MLC BTW.
I've got a lot of reading to do at some of those links.
The more I read, the more I recognize symptoms of MLC in my WAW.
Posted By: InAPickle Re: Need Insight III - 12/24/10 01:49 PM
It has been two months to the day that bomb was dropped, and a miserable two months it's been. Don't mind me, I am just journaling a little.

I woke up this morning surprised at myself that I could harbor such intense disdain, hatred, contempt, whatever you want to call, it for another human being. Her meanness and unkindness toward me have taken its toll, and I am sorely tempted to immerse her in crisis, but now is not the time. W seems to be acting secure I will not exposure her to kids and friends, but little does she know that I am only human. The time will come and I will know it. She will face a crisis.

Little by little her infidelity and MLC fantasy plans will surely leak out and it wont take long I imagine. Some of our best friends already know, but act around her like all is normal. That's fine with me, but they're only human too.

The kids, well they will be in denial in spite of what they see happening, until somebody drops a bomb on them, but it wont be me. There's no way in hell, I will ever sit side by side with W explaining that we "agree" to D or S, no way. I intend to make it abundantly clear to them that I have never wanted a D, and it is she and only she who does. And the next time she wants to talk D, it'll be abundantly clear to W too.

Later on today I expect, my bitter feelings to subside as they usually do. I just hope I can control myself enough to continue DBing without a setback of one kind or another.
Posted By: Denver_2010 Re: Need Insight III - 12/25/10 04:36 AM
Amen IAP, Amen. This has been a tough day for me too.
Posted By: InAPickle Re: Need Insight III - 12/25/10 01:43 PM
Merry Christmas Everyone.
Had a wonderful midnight mass.
Didn't get to bed till 3 AM.

W is still in lala land.
Everytime she looks my way I see dagggers blaming me for her misery.

If I was keeping a solution journal, I don't think I'd write anything in it. Nothing seems to be working so far.

Just have to wait for her to navigate her through her guilt and escape fantasies.

Friend told me some interesting stuff the other day.
After church some time ago he overheard W talking to his sister. W observed all the "short haired old ladies" in the congregation and said with determination she'll never become like that. MLC?

And although I have been accustomed to letting things roll off my back, friend said he and his wife noticed my W putting me down in public (in their company) surprisingly. He even said to his wife, "You know if you did something like that to me, we'd be having words."

Looking back, this past year and beyond, W has done a lot of wardrobe shopping, a lot of hair color and a lot of toes. She's definately fighting the "short haired old lady" path. She has also taken to wearing 2" heels which makes her taller than I and causes her to look downward when in my direction. I don't like it. She's in la la land.
Posted By: angel61 Re: Need Insight III - 12/25/10 11:51 PM
My H acted weid during mass last night. After comunion, while we were kneeling and praying, he sat back right away and started singing in a loud voice. D11 and I were freaked out. We both were thining he had gone crazy....
Posted By: InAPickle Re: Need Insight III - 12/26/10 02:08 PM
Well so far this weekend W has held her venom. She even gave me a hug after D17 opened a special gift we had managed to collaborate together on. That's the first warm thing I have received from her since bomb day (10/24).

She's going to the Jags FB game today w/ her divorced GF's. Looks like cold rain. That's another thing I think might be due to MLC. Before she was only marginally interested in the NFL and the Jags only if they were good. Then all of a sudden this past summer she gets together w/ these two GF's and they get tickets for girls day at the game kind of thing.

I thought it was a little out of character, but looking back, by August she had already tossed me out of the M in her mind and was in the long distance EA with exH. I hope it pours and she freezes her a$$ off, not to be vindictive or anything, but just so she'll begin to realize her misery is not the fault of her H and is all a result of her choices and attitude.

For example, "I'll never be like those short haird old house women!" Well if you're heading in that direction, whose fault is it? It seems her dealing with growing old is all manifested in outward appearence and outward activity, but inside there's nothing she can do to stop the aging.

I guess it does not help that when she sees me she sees a man 3 yeard older than she, young looking, no grey, full head, slender and buff for a 50yr old (don't get excited ladies) and until the bomb - contented (save the normal stresses of life).

I know, I know - I am still at the stage where I am trying to read and analyze her - but I only do it in the forum (mostly)- I swear!
Posted By: InAPickle Re: Need Insight III - 12/26/10 06:35 PM
"Then all of a sudden this past summer she gets together w/ these two GF's and they get tickets for girls day at the game kind of thing."

I meant to say "season tickets", in case it was not clear.
Posted By: InAPickle Re: Need Insight III - 12/27/10 08:43 PM
Got the post holiday blues today.
Christmas day was "okay" I guess.
We took the kids to the movies, but now it's back to....
We live in the same house but exchange very few words.
When I come home she leaves and when she's there I'll go.
Been trying to LRT under the same roof but it's awkward.
Kids are probably wondering what the hell is going on.
Been forever since she slept in our bed.
Don't know what else to do but wait - for what?
Any ideas what to expect - another bomb perhaps?
Yesterday she came home from the game to an empty house.
S11 and I were at friends house and D17 was out w/BF.
Friend and I came home to grab some firewood and she's there.
Looked like she just woke from a nap or something.
She said hello very subdued, she looked sad.
Later when S11 and I finally came home for good, I asked if she heard from D17 and when she's coming home.
She snapped, "It's only 9:15!" back to being pissy.
Posted By: InAPickle Re: Need Insight III - 12/27/10 10:53 PM
Another little snippet to consider.
Just got the joint amex bill.
On 12/7 W retained a lawyer - charged $2500 to our joint amex. acct.
WTF should I say to her?
Posted By: MeMyselfandI Re: Need Insight III - 12/27/10 11:51 PM
Pickle, my heart goes out. Stopped by to visit after you did the same for me and wanted you to know, that STBXH did a similar thing for retaining his lawyer. Took $2,500 out of our joint account for a certified cheque, (we were still living together at the time). I instantly went to the bank, opened my own account and started having my paycheques deposited into a separate bank account. He tried say it was not legal but it certainly was, as long as I transferred over enough money to our joint account to cover expenses.

I would suggest you cancel that joint amex account immediately and get your own.

Although I'm early on the in process in some ways, I have been through negotiating the separation agreement, money, assets and all. It's a grueling time and I don't wish it upon anyone. I did get taken to the cleaners somewhat and although many times I would call my father (hundreds of miles away), to vent, my mantra was:

It's just stuff, it's just money, it doesn't define me. At the end of all of this, I will be able to look at myself in the mirror with dignity and respect.
Posted By: MeMyselfandI Re: Need Insight III - 12/27/10 11:56 PM
And, don't say anything to her. Just go to the bank and do what you have to do. I don't know what the laws are in the US or Florida but I wouldn't suspect any court in the world could condemn you for protecting yourself as long as you make it clear that you still expect to live up to your financial obligations.
Posted By: InAPickle Re: Need Insight III - 12/28/10 01:52 AM
Actually, being the man, I have been advised not to fire a shot accross the bow: No taking money out of accts, etc. anything that opposing lawyer can twist into convincing D court that I want/agree to D. So I have to sit tight and squirm.

We live in a no fault state, so wife's affair has no weight. I have to act like I don't want the D. It's tough being the H when W wants out. I was the homeowner when we got M; she rented and was in debt. But we've been M 18 yrs so that is diminished. Besides D court does what's best for kids.

My only hope is to fight alimony 'cause I will probably get kicked out of my house. W wants to live as roommates, but I refuse to be a divorced roomie.
Posted By: MeMyselfandI Re: Need Insight III - 12/28/10 02:27 AM
Sorry, don't know much about no fault ... I'd have to check into it. One thing that struck me about your response though was "I have to act like I don't want the D."

Isn't that in fact the truth? So really, you are not acting at all. I believe that is why we are all here, (maybe me being the exception 'cause I do want to D to start over), that we don't want the D. Don't get me wrong, I want my family back, so bad that I can taste it, just not the way it was.

That being said though, protecting yourself financially is very different, IMHO.

Cheers to no divorced roomies.
Posted By: InAPickle Re: Need Insight III - 12/28/10 03:50 AM
About D: I do and I don't.
I honestly don't want to be married to the woman my W has become.
But somewhere inside the alien is the person I fell in love with.
She's in there somewhere. I don't know whether she'll show up again though. I do know MLC takes a long, long time.
I know I will not sit side by side with her and tell the Kids
"mommy and daddy agree to a D and break up of the family."
That would be a lie. If she wants it she needs to pay that lawer and file. Then I will will deal with it.
That's the legtal advice I have gotten.
Makes me the victim.
Posted By: InAPickle Re: Need Insight III - 12/28/10 01:48 PM
Well this morning before I left for work, she finally gets up the gumption to "talk" - the one she promised/threatened right before trip to see OM.

She said we have to attand a mandatory parenting class and do I want to go together. I said I don't know, havn't thought about that. Then she asked me if I talked to a lawyer; I said no I have only talked to a secretary (but I think she was really a paralegal).

Then she asked about one of our mutual friends from church if I had told him anything b/c he acted funny around her. I truthfully said no I hardly ever see him. This is the second friend whose made her uncomfortable. Like I posted earlier, people are only human; things get around.

Then she said she spoke privately w/D17 about things not going well between us (WELL DUH!) and we would wait till she graduates from HS to seperate (remember she still wants her D settlement but live as roomies). She said D17 took it ok. I responded she's hiding her feelings (just like me on bomb day b/c her personality takes after her dad) Of course W was in total denial about that.

The I "gently" put it to her:

"I can't help you, I will not sit before kids and say 'Mommy and Daddy agree to such and such' b/c that would be a lie; I don't agree to a D"

"What are you going to do then?"

"Guess I'll just wait for you to file."

"Well I want to put the holidays behind us so it's not associated with Christmas."

HOW SWEET !

I expect the EA will fizzle soon enough, but the MLC - WTF knows?

She's in total lala land and does not realize, that when I get served, I will fight for every last brick and penny.
Posted By: cat04 Re: Need Insight III - 12/28/10 03:07 PM
Pickle,

See a lawyer. Have a consultation. You really need to know what your rights are.

Even though Florida is a no fault state, there are circumstances that can make a difference. I know second marriages hold different status with regards to assets (or they used to), I am just not sure of the specifics.

Your W is correct that you have to take the parenting class. I believe it is four hours.

There are formulas in this state that determine child support so it will not just be whatever arbitrary number someone wants to set.

Personally, I would begin to set up separate accounts and close the joint ones. Maybe for no other reason than you don't want to be a party to any future debt that she incurs.

There are things that you can do to protect yourself, without looking like you are trying to be a jacka$$.

Fighting for every last brick and penny, is going to cost you more in the long run I am afraid. Not just monitarily either. However, that is a different conversation.
Posted By: InAPickle Re: Need Insight III - 12/28/10 04:05 PM
I did call a lawyer. The paralegal/secy said there's no point in a paying for a consultation until I get served, and they can see what she wants.

And I don't care about the money either.

She's more afraid of depleating all our resources than anyone, hence the roommates fantasy. Kids are in private school, D17 will want to go to college, money means everything to her now. That's one of my 180's; I used to worry and complain about it; now I don't even care.

Her saying that she wants to distance the D from the holidays gives me a little time. EA started in the beginning of August and by the end of January it'll have been seven months. She's been to see him; he's no prize (I checked out his facebook). He's married, lives 500 miles away; past the initial excitment there's nothing to build on there.

Whenever I'm in prayer I sense God telling me to give God a month. That kind of works out with putting Christmas in the rear view mirror, so we'll see what happens. If she still wants that ugly MF, she can have him.

She still doesn't realize that if I lose the house, I'm not staying to play house dad and be her roomie while she lives the single life. Oh no baby - it'll me that lives the single life - and I fully intend to make the best of it.
Posted By: InAPickle Re: Need Insight III - 12/29/10 02:43 PM
I'm getting s lot of conflicting advice about legal aspects.

Forum posters are telling me to consult an atty and find out my rights.

Lawyer's offices are telling me to wait and to not fire the first shot, also about my rights, they are what they are period.

Here's what I know:

W wants to put some distance between holidays and D.
If W really wants the D, there's nothing I can do to stop it.
The only thing that stands any chance of saving M is DB-ing.
As a LBS I can "request" court ordered MC if it comes to court.
The $2500 W charged to amex was most likely a "retainer" and she still must "decide" to preoceed.

Here's what I think is down the road:

I fully expect her next "talk" will be to try and convince me to use her atty together to save $$.
And I fully expect to tell her I will get my own atty after I am served (which I think I kinda did already)
Posted By: InAPickle Re: Need Insight III - 12/30/10 02:14 AM
Any thoughts on my sitch guys.
Things don't look to be improving.
She used to keep a picture of me on her nightstand - it's gone.
I stopped wearing my ring; is that bad?
She had it engraved after before we were married, "Forever yours, her name". So it hurts to wear it.
Posted By: angel61 Re: Need Insight III - 12/30/10 04:47 AM
Pickle,

Remind yourself that for the MLC'er, only half of what they say and do is true.

I notice that you are also starting to listen to God .... once you really pray from your heart you will hear Him talk to you in many ways.

Things will get worse before they get better. It has to reach bottom before it starts to look up again. And bottom is not a point, its a flat surface as well. I am trying to go up but m slipping all the time.

Hope the new year brings a better sitch for you!

Hugs,

Angel
Posted By: InAPickle Re: Need Insight III - 12/30/10 01:53 PM
Thanks Angel.

I have good days and bad days.
Usually when I am posting I am having a bad day,
or I have some news of some development.

For some reason she got up early this morning before I left for work.
I wore my ring and made sure she noticed.
I actually caught her looking at my hand holding the coffee mug.

I think she still thinks I "hate" her for going to visit OM.
But really I think she "hates" what she's doing.
I hope after a while she'll want to find a way out.
Posted By: InAPickle Re: Need Insight III - 12/30/10 02:10 PM
Found this at another thread.
MWD's new year's resolutions for all of us.
Let's do it!

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/divorce-busting
Posted By: angel61 Re: Need Insight III - 12/30/10 09:17 PM
They do get to hate what they do. When my H says he hates his life I know he hates what he did to it. he once said before that it was him, not me.

That is why when we act nice to them it throws them off, they have more reason not to hate us and cannot put the blame on us, and so they hate themselves more.

But hopefully, that hating themselves makes them realize that they have to change, and that it is in their power.

Wearing your ring shows her and your kids that you are want the M, not D, and that is what you want them to think, right?
Posted By: Truegritter Re: Need Insight III - 01/01/11 01:22 AM
Hey Pickle

Been catching up on you.

I am a man whose W is also MLC.

Only you can say if she is or not. I am sure you read the resources but you are in for a long haul if it is so.

Nothing you do will move her to back to your M.

You just need to come to grips with that.

My thread is in MLC if you are interested in reading.

It's long.

And so is this process.

To what?

Maybe your M reconciling.

Maybe not.

I can only tell you that this day to day sweating it out will take a LOT out of you.

YOU must decide what you want to do. Regardless of the outcome.

This is not just MLC, but for anyone.

Decide what what you will be and who you will be.

And do it.

Your W is going to act crazy some days and move toward you other days.

You cannot ride that ride with her.

She has to come to her own understanding. And...

You must let her.

It is NYE tonight. A time make different choices for you and your family.

Will you kepp riding the the change of winds? The change of the tides?

Things you do not have control of?

You must learn patience if you want this. You must learn compassion if you want this.

From enduring these hardships you learn wisdom of what life means to you.

What love means to you.

And most importantly who you are.

Your actions speak to that. Not words to anyone, especially your wife.

She has not ears to hear right now.

You want to honor your W like you vowed? Listen to her.

She is in pain and alone and this OM is only to fill that void.

You won't be that man again I can tell you.

You don't want to be that man.

Until she looks within and sees that she is part of the problem.

BUT

You are too. So get to working on that which you control.

YOU.
Posted By: InAPickle Re: Need Insight III - 01/01/11 02:45 AM
Thanks for catching up Truegritter.
I was beginning to wonder if any input was coming.

So far MLC W has not made any move toward me that I can tell.
But I'm a guy, so not real big on noticing small things,
unless of course they're getting on my nerves LOL.
After I told her last time I'll just wait for her to file, it seems like she's neither moving toward nor away, but parked. Maybe she's just waiting to file; who knows?

I have made what changes I deemed necessary like getting my 50 yr health checkups and picking up the old guitar and just practicing STFU mostly, however she doesn't say much. Before bomb I already had a life; I liked me then and like me now. I don't know what's not to like.

All sitch talk is initiated by W and it seems to be only about logistics of D and her "escape". She doesn't air her greviences about me personally, so I don't know what to change in response. All I can do at the moment is detach from her drama, enjoy life w/ kids and friends.

I have been doing the unexpected. I used to always come straight home from work to see the kids and help with domestic chores. Couple times I've not come home and gone with friends, b/c I really didn't want to see her after her trip to see OM.

She avoids me in the house; I don't know WTF that's all about. She is reading a self help book. I'll try to sneak a peak and let you know what it is. Maybe someone in the forum might be familiar with it.
Posted By: InAPickle Re: Need Insight III - 01/01/11 02:59 AM
Here's what she's reading.

"Thrive, finding happiness the blue zones way"

by: Dan Beuttner.

Anyone know this book?
Posted By: Truegritter Re: Need Insight III - 01/01/11 03:36 AM
Originally Posted By: pickle
All I can do at the moment is detach from her drama, enjoy life w/ kids and friends.


Stay on this path...

It is all YOU can do and it is the best thing for you.

Don't know the book but the fact she is reading one in that direction I think is good

But then again she could just read what she wants to read to confirm her own decisions.

So you never know my friend.

That's the rub.

Real growth has to come from her and on her own time.

Someone asked me a while ago:

What does it like like when you will take your W back?

Is it at any cost or what do you need to see?

What do you need to see in yourself?

Are you ready for her to come back IF she says she wants to?

Tough questions.

Think about it.

Happy NEW year.
Posted By: InAPickle Re: Need Insight III - 01/01/11 05:05 AM
"What does it like like when you will take your W back?"
It will be better than it ever was before.

"Is it at any cost or what do you need to see?"
Not any cost; I wont go back to what it was.
I need to see: committment, connection, unconditional love

"What do you need to see in yourself?"
committment, connection, unconditional love
Posted By: InAPickle Re: Need Insight III - 01/01/11 05:11 AM
Let me expound on question no.2.
If you've followed my thread,
I would never take back the woman my W has become.
She's Kate and I am no Petruchio!
Posted By: InAPickle Re: Need Insight III - 01/01/11 03:30 PM
" My thread is in MLC if you are interested in reading.
It's long."

Hi Grit:
I stayed up and read some of your thread at MLC.
You're right, it is long, but I learned some things.

And it scares me to think that my own thread(s) could get that long.

Happy New Year,
and thanks for the input on my sitch.
Posted By: InAPickle Re: Need Insight III - 01/01/11 04:04 PM
"All sitch talk is initiated by W and it seems to be only about logistics of D and her "escape". She doesn't air her greviences about me personally, so I don't know what to change in response."

Been thinking about what I said just there.

It's the crux of the sitch right now.

I wait for her to either:

1 - file for D or
2 - start telling me her greviences.
Posted By: InAPickle Re: Need Insight III - 01/02/11 03:05 AM
I was in the adoration chapel by myself tonight doing some grieving and prayed alot. I prayed for all of you and about the pain and loneliness I am enduring. I wondered about finding someone else to fill the void in my life, and the message came to me clear as a bell. Don't do it.

My WAW is still conflicted and needs excuses to do what she's doing. She would just love it, I mean really love it, if I found some other romantic interest. That would free her to fly to her midlife fantasy world.

I remember vividly the restaurant on bomb day. Leading up to her revelation about her exH: "Don't you ever wonder what so and so is doing and wouldn't like to get back in touch?" (I was engaged twice to two other GF's before marrying W) She also referred to my Bday in August where we were out w/friends and I got hammered (50th you know) "I think that waitress really had an eye for you"

Yes, so she wants me to find an OW, to justify some of her choices. So here I am stuck in this nether world waiting, just waiting. This is not just a legal issue, or an emotional struggle, it is a spiritual battle.
Posted By: MeMyselfandI Re: Need Insight III - 01/02/11 04:18 AM
Wow Pickle, does this ever resonate with me. I sometimes feel that is exactly what STBXH wants is for me to find someone else so it will justify his choices and remove some of the guilt. I struggle with this as well but I think, deep down that it is not what they really want.

Maybe I just need to believe this to keep me going on this db path. Maybe it's a pipe dream, I don't know. I do know that if I'm not strong enough to have a life without him, truly to be able to keep going without him then I am not ready to be with him.
Posted By: MeMyselfandI Re: Need Insight III - 01/02/11 04:18 AM
Wow Pickle, does this ever resonate with me. I sometimes feel that is exactly what STBXH wants is for me to find someone else so it will justify his choices and remove some of the guilt. I struggle with this as well but I think, deep down that it is not what they really want.

Maybe I just need to believe this to keep me going on this db path. Maybe it's a pipe dream, I don't know. I do know that if I'm not strong enough to have a life without him, truly to be able to keep going without him then I am not ready to be with him.
Posted By: MeMyselfandI Re: Need Insight III - 01/02/11 04:19 AM
Wow Pickle, does this ever resonate with me. I sometimes feel that is exactly what STBXH wants is for me to find someone else so it will justify his choices and remove some of the guilt. I struggle with this as well but I think, deep down that it is not what they really want.

Maybe I just need to believe this to keep me going on this db path. Maybe it's a pipe dream, I don't know. I do know that if I'm not strong enough to have a life without him, truly to be able to keep going without him then I am not ready to be with him.
Posted By: InAPickle Re: Need Insight III - 01/02/11 02:14 PM
Like I said at the beginning of my first thread, W has a lot of teary eyed talks, even admitted feeling guilty about hurting me, but really that's not even the half of it. She will not come to grips with what this is doing to her insides; that's why I think she's reading that book on happiness. Why read a book on happiness if you're happy? I thought EA endorphins were supposed to make you happy! No, right now I think life aint that happy for her.

In our 18 years, we've been practicing our faith and raisng our kids in the faith and not just on Sundays but also involved in parish lay minsitry and social activities. With the exception of her tennis and bunko babes, all our close friends are from church. She has no one to confide in (though she did admit telling a fellow teacher, who noticed the endorphins).

She knows that a civil D doesn't mean squat in the grand scheme of things and that we'll always be sacramentally married in the eye's of God and the Church. (unless she wants to get our marriage anulled, for which there are no canon law grounds)

So yeah I'm in for the long haul, for better, for worse, for richer, or poorer, but this sitch is takng it's toll on her, so I don't think it'll be too long before she makes some decision and there only three choices:

1. File D and proceed with it.
2. Status quo
3. Consider saving the M
Posted By: InAPickle Re: Need Insight III - 01/02/11 03:28 PM
fullsteam: " I do know that if I'm not strong enough to have a life without him, truly to be able to keep going without him then I am not ready to be with him."

Like I intimated in earlier posts.
I don't have a problem living without the woman my W has become. I'd almost be glad to be rid of her and move on.

What I really want back is the sweet girl I married, or someone even better.
Posted By: MeMyselfandI Re: Need Insight III - 01/02/11 03:57 PM
Yes Pickle, I can understand that. I see my H at kids activities, etc. and he seems like the great guy who I married which is why it is so tough sometimes. I believe he is putting up a front as he has told me in the past that he acts like who he has to act like, depending on the company he is in.

So, deep down, is he still that guy or is he still the running scared, blaming all his unhappiness on me guy who walked away from our M last year? I don't know. I remember when we were going through all of this at one point I had told him I didn't know who he was anymore. He responded that he didn't know who he was either and that he just couldn't handle this getting any harder.

At the end of it all you are right, I want that great guy that I married but maybe only if he is able to be himself and be true to himself.
Posted By: Lorie1964 Re: Need Insight III - 01/02/11 04:07 PM
Pickle,

I have too spent many times in prayer about my sitch and feel that if I were to look to another man now I would not be honoring my sacramental marriage. My H and I too have been involved with the Church and parish life through out our marriage. Actually, last night at Mass I thought about when H and I started dating and I invited him to come to Mass with me on Saturday nights before our dates and how he converted to Catholicism because he came to love the Church so much. We have raised our daughter in the faith and in April she will make her confirmation. Our whole marriage we have prayed and felt God guide in so many of the major decisions of our marriage. He told me recently that he was never the religious one, and that I was, you could have knocked me over with a feather. This is the biggest lie, and he has turned his back on God. You know what is sad, after the years of his parents seeing our commitment to God and the Church also converted. He was so proud when that happened.

So, I pray for him everyday and throughout the day. I pray for his soul and pray for him to find his way back to God. That is what he needs to do first. Then maybe he will find his way back to me, but I want a Godly man first and know that is what I need to see in H if he ever wanted to reconcile.

So pray for your W and for her to find her way to happiness through God. Because for someone who has had God in their lives so long, needs to fill that part of her first before she finds true happiness with herself.

God Bless and I pray that 2011 will be a year of conversions for our spouses to find their way back God.
Posted By: InAPickle Re: Need Insight III - 01/02/11 08:35 PM
Just journaling here.

Kids stayed up too late last night, so they would not budge to get up for church. Since Jags play at 4:15 today, W & I wanted to go to church so we could watch the game on TV. D17 & S11 decided to go to mass this evening.

It felt a little awkward just me and W. But once in church I immersed in the liturgy and felt at peace, even though W would not sit any closer than 8 inches away from me in the pew.

I remembered three weeks ago kids sat between us, and at the sign of peace after embracing D17 & S11 I reached accross to W and tried to pull within cheek peck range, but she looked off balance and yanked herself back. Not right after mass nor later that afternoon, but in fact days later, she referred to that incident and making an ugly face, sneered, "Don't ever do that again!" (those words tasted like venom).

So here we were 8 maybe 10 inches apart in the pew: time for the Lord's prayer; many other families joining hands, I reach out - nothing - she clenches hers together. Right after is the sign of peace and I'm really wondering, I figure the usual stranger to stranger handshake.

But then she opens her arms and gives me a gentle squeeze; I gently squeezed back and added a cheek peck - felt no friction compared to the last fiasco. Don't know if it means anything, but like I posted earlier, I'm a guy, so hardly notice little things (trying to learn though) and like I said above - just journaling here (had to tell somebody).
Posted By: InAPickle Re: Need Insight III - 01/03/11 12:32 PM
Had a little chat w/D17 last night.

Seemed reluctant to answer my question: "What's momma told you about us?"

"She told me at the end of January W wants to file D."

I didn't press for anymore, knowing that D17 only has heard W's side of things.
But I did tell her I did not want the D and I want to save my M. Left it at that.

Is this the "one month" God was telling me about? Or was I just imagining the still small voice? We'll see.
Posted By: Truegritter Re: Need Insight III - 01/03/11 04:08 PM
Pickle

I found a lot of solice and my own clarity by just sitting in the chapel. I was raised Catholic so I understand why that may be a quiet place for you.

I am happy that you found a place for you to be at peace and listen.

Inside you are all your answers. When you can come to that clarity and that calm place you will realize that this is all about you.

Not what your W does or doesn't do. What you choose here is important for you, your family and your W.

The questions I asked you about what does it look like when you will consider taking your W back.

Those were for you. Your answer that you don't want her back the way she is now...

That is for you too. Read your own words and then understand what they really mean.

Your "aha" moment in the chapel is a good one IMO.

It will help you understand that your vows are not just for when your W is healthy and happy.

They are especially for when she is scared and unsure. When she is so scared she runs away. She will keep running toward where she thinks the answer lies.

Today that happens not to be in your direction.

BUT if she does begin to look back. If she does look inside.

Maybe

She can see you standing as a light in the distance.

This journey is for you Pickle. You will find out some amazing things when you decide to travel this path.

At least that is what I experienced.

One more thing. You will be tempted to tell her about all this that you decided and your prayers and what they mean to you.

Don't. It will be pressure. Keep this for yourself. And live what you decide.

Show her don't tell her.
Posted By: InAPickle Re: Need Insight III - 01/04/11 03:46 AM
Well today W called me ballistic that I asked D17, "what did momma say?" and sounded especially livid about when D17 told her at the end I asked, "Is that all?"

Told ya she was paranoid I would expose EA to kids. Still have no report on trip to Ohio if there was a PA.

But what really happened after D17 told me W was planing D at end of Jan, I just meant to say, "That's all she said then?"

But of course W gets it twisted around in her head and says I made D17 uncomfortable.

I just said sorry, did not defend myself and gave her nothing else. I had no idea W was so unstable.
Posted By: Denver_2010 Re: Need Insight III - 01/04/11 04:21 AM
Yep... my W too. She got p*ssed at me when I explained to her that I would not assist her in filing for, or paying for, Legal Separation papers bc I didn't want LS. I guess this is what we have to look forward to in the coming months. Good times.
Posted By: InAPickle Re: Need Insight III - 01/04/11 12:38 PM
Originally Posted By: Denver_2010
Yep... my W too. She got p*ssed at me when I explained to her that I would not assist her in filing for, or paying for, Legal Separation papers bc I didn't want LS. I guess this is what we have to look forward to in the coming months. Good times.


Do you have kids Denver?
The approach I took with W about D was:

"I can't help you with D; I can't sit next to you and say to the kids mommy and daddy agree to such and such etc etc b/c that would be a lie; I don't want a D; I don't agree to D"

She seemed to understand that logic.
Just buyin' time.
Posted By: InAPickle Re: Need Insight III - 01/04/11 02:40 PM
Some of us need to watch this every day.

Simple secrets to a happy life.

http://newsletter.simpletruths.com/a/hBNIHbnB8PINaB8U9H2NmEvAFQy/movie
Posted By: angel61 Re: Need Insight III - 01/04/11 08:52 PM
HI Pickle,
I too am just buying time. Tine is gold, I would try any trick in the boook to get him to stay, I feel that if he goes, then thats it.

But sometimes I read sitches here that shows how DB techniques works more when the spouses are apart.

Again, some people say in MLC there are no tactics that work.

I'm confused!
Posted By: Denver_2010 Re: Need Insight III - 01/05/11 02:43 AM
Originally Posted By: InAPickle
Originally Posted By: Denver_2010
Yep... my W too. She got p*ssed at me when I explained to her that I would not assist her in filing for, or paying for, Legal Separation papers bc I didn't want LS. I guess this is what we have to look forward to in the coming months. Good times.


Do you have kids Denver?
The approach I took with W about D was:

"I can't help you with D; I can't sit next to you and say to the kids mommy and daddy agree to such and such etc etc b/c that would be a lie; I don't want a D; I don't agree to D"

She seemed to understand that logic.
Just buyin' time.


Hey Pickle - My W and I do not have kids together. I have a daughter from a previous R who lives out of state and my W has a son who is 11 and lives with us, or rather, lived with us until W went off the deep end.

Yes, all I'm trying to do is buy time myself here. I figure the longer I can put D off the more chance that she will come around. Sometimes though, I wonder why I am bothering. I don't know why I am investing so much of myself into this M when W wants the easy way out. I'm a little down today, so never mind my negativity.
Posted By: InAPickle Re: Need Insight III - 01/05/11 03:24 AM
You have to play the hand you're dealt Angel.
Every sitch is different.

Kids make a huge difference, when it comes to hard stands versus letting your kids have the benefit of both parents at home.
Trust that God is in control, especially if you pray for your kids, Believe that God wants what's best for them. Sometimes in abusive or addictive sitchs it's best for the kids to be away from that. Other times they're devistated if one parent moves out.

Rely on your intuition and instincts and God's still small voice and NOT act on emotion. The emotional rollercoaster will trip you up sometimes (speaking from experience).

The hardest thing for me sometimes is taking my own damn advice.
Posted By: angel61 Re: Need Insight III - 01/05/11 11:39 PM
Pickle, Been reading the articles in the link. They are very good. Seems like most of the people in this board reads them , as all of the terminology is the same.

So far, I have been able to label my H with some of the descriptions in the articles, as such:

1. He is a distancer, I am a pursuer - even before the bomb.
2. He is a boomerang type - a clinging boomerang
3. He is an ego-deflater

Thinking of your sitch, I think your W is the female version of my H - both of them wanting some sort of legal S or D but keeping the contact with the family for reasons of guilt, especially because of the kids, and the convenience of still being in a family type situation (your W wants to live as roomies, my H wants to live as neighbours, but with 1/2 time living in the same house). So probably your W falls into the same categories as well. She seems a little less clingy though copared to my H, more aggressive and willing to move, while my H is passive, seems to avoid change, does not do anything (not even researching about D! even if he talks about it. He probably wants to just push me so hard so that I will do all the work, as I always have). Well, this works for me as buying time is still my startegy in all of this.

Right now I am trying my best not to rock the boat. I go home from work and don't even talk to him, just go up to the room, talk to D, surf, work some more, read, clean while he cooks, then just go down when he yells "eating time".

Denver, Pickle - good luck to all three of us. Remember, D is not the easy way out actually. Denver, I read somewhere you atre a lawyer so you know all the intriccacies, so it may be the easy way for you but I don't view it that way!
Posted By: Denver_2010 Re: Need Insight III - 01/06/11 01:31 AM
Angel - When I said that D is the easy way out, I didn't really mean that it is easy. I am a lawyer, but not a divorce attorney. Anyway, what I meant is that leaving the problems in a M to look for something new is the easy way out. The hard way, the right way, is to choose to stay and fight for you M, to work at figuring those problems out.

Kind of like back in H.S. when one of your friends stole the answer key to a math test that you feel you will flunk. The easy way out of the situation is to use the answer key to cheat and pass the test. The hard way, is to actually put your nose to the grind and work to learn the material. I feel that my W is choosing the easy way out of our problematic M. My choice is to stay and fight for my M, put my nose to the grind and learn WTF I messed up so that I know "the material" in the future...

Good luck to us all... yes, definitely.
Posted By: InAPickle Re: Need Insight III - 01/06/11 12:44 PM
More background. How could I have left this out?

A few years ago, W began IC for her depression, which runs in her family. She got on meds and seemed okay (to me at the time). I don't remember exactly when she started IC - she never talked to me about it - I didn't pry. like I said, I thought it was working. It bothered me a little that she was spending the money, when she "seemed" okay, but I never said so.

First meds depressed her libido, and our LL went in the toilet. Then she switched to something else which helped, but we had lost a lot of connection. The time line is fuzzy; I didn't keep track. It's all in the past now.

So now she's reading the self help book on happiness b/c she aint. I walk in the room and she picks up her stuff leaves like a phukin' child. Could the sight of me or my presence make her guilty and/or depressed ie. unhappy? What do you guys think?

My DB and LTR and even small talk all seem to be pushing her further out the door. Her planned D-day according to D17 I recall is the end of Jan. As that date approaches, she seems to be getting more distant and avoiding more. If I remember my college days, my roomies were a lot of fun, this person is the furthest thing from a room mate.
Posted By: angel61 Re: Need Insight III - 01/07/11 12:46 AM
Denver, I get it. Sorry for misinterpreting.

Pickle, In the articles, it says that the MLC spouse does not consider the LBS as a friend. They are actually afraid of their spouse because we know them better than anything, and know what is in thir mind. Its a kind of paranoia. The more you know about her, the more you can manipulate her. That is why she runs out of the room when she saw you - she does not wnat you to see what "weapons" she has to make herself strong.

I notice the same with my H. He seems to not want to share anything about himself with me. He mumbles when he talks to me, as though he is reluctant to share any information.

My H also has a family hx of depression. I think that increases the predisposition to MLC, as depression is a must in MLC.

Everyday, it feels that more and more our R is spiraling down the drain.

But as they say, MLC has to reach bottom before it can go up. Sometimes, I just want to hurry it up, hope he just crashes and goes into overt, clinical depression so we can start going up.
Posted By: InAPickle Re: Need Insight III - 01/07/11 04:14 AM
Wonder if I should move my thread to MLC then?

I just hope that by the end of this month I havn't been served.
But if it happens - gotta believe it is God's will and he will bring good from it.

It's scarin' the hell out of me though. I really don't want to go through all that stuff after reading so many others' sitchs regarding sep and dev.
Posted By: InAPickle Re: Need Insight III - 01/07/11 04:41 AM
Originally Posted By: Denver _2010
[quote=InAPickle][quote=Denver_2010]I wonder why I am bothering. I don't know why I am investing so much of myself into this M when W wants the easy way out. I'm a little down today, so never mind my negativity.


Trugritter cleared the "bothering" question up for me. Did I promise to love and cherish only for better, only in health, only for richer? Or did I promise to love and cherish for "worse" in "sickness" or for "poorer"?

How much do you value those promises? In the end I want to be able to believe I did everything I could to keep those promises.
Posted By: habitacker Re: Need Insight III - 01/07/11 05:01 AM
That is the way I have thought about it also. I feel in some way she has a "sickness", and I have to stick by her. Especially, because of my faults, I am the one who got her sick.
Posted By: Denver_2010 Re: Need Insight III - 01/07/11 05:17 AM
Pickle - I saw Gritter's post about that and a few others from him on the same subject. I agree and that's why I am here. I was probably just venting when I said that. There are days when I feel like taking the easy way out and just quitting. It is really tough knowing that W is doing lord knows what while I am still fighting for M by myself. Like Habit though, I also know that I am greatly responsible for our problems and there was a long period of time where W was fighting for M and I was not bc of depression.
Posted By: Truegritter Re: Need Insight III - 01/07/11 01:25 PM
Gents just a quick note on this subject...

The most important thing to understand is this is for YOU.

Not about how your W will see your choices. Quite the opposite.

You are making them in spite of what she chooses. Not as a reaction to. Or because of. That is the ONLY control you will EVER have in ANY relationship.

This one or another.

You're not making it for her. You promised. You choose how to live that.

The key is we all share a spouse who is guilty of at the least bad behavior and poor choices.

You choose how you let that affect who YOU are and what you believe.
Posted By: angel61 Re: Need Insight III - 01/07/11 06:58 PM
Pickle, Maybe you should open a thread in MLC. The vets there give a lot of good input. But Newcomers get a lot of traffic, so maybe keep this as long as you can as well, as you are still fairly new but I can see you are already getting more comfortable and knowledgeable about DBing.

As Gritter says, its all about you. About us, not our spouses. I agree with Habitacker, our spouses do have some "sickness". I am in the medical field, I now view my H as a "patient" and am doing a lot of research about the MLC condition. The more informed you are, the more you understand why they do things.

I would recommend that all of you read about MLC if you are not sure why your spouse is behaving so.
Posted By: InAPickle Re: Need Insight III - 01/09/11 03:41 PM
Just sharing some experience for those newbies struggling with the emotional rollercoaster. As you can tell from my signature, I was bombed 10/24/10 and did all the "wrong" things for about 2 weeks until I read DR. You all know what it's like, seemingly endless cycles of depression, anger, heartache, thinking, thinking, cannot concentrate on anything else etc. etc.

Well this was right before the holiday season, and at my church, beginning thanksgiving weekend, we sell Christmas trees. The following weekend we usually hold a caroling party at the tree lot complete with fire pit, hot chocolate, roasted hotdogs and mingling. I have been providing the guitar accompanyment for the past few years, but hadn't picked up the instrument in months. Well obviously I had to pick it up and practice, which was one of the first things I did after reading DR.

I began to notice that playing and especially singing the carols in practice actually lifted the depression from my mind and took me to a peaceful place. Needless to say, even after the party, any time I felt a down cycle on the rollercoaster, if I was home I'd pick up the guitar and (softly) sing and play. Now I download from the net, some of my favorite old tunes and continue the hobby.

Maybe some of you have an activity which takes your mind to a peaceful place, even if it's just, singing the shower or watching a good movie, or saying a rosary, do something in those valleys. It cannot hurt; it can only help.

Still prayin' for you all.
Pickle
Posted By: Denver_2010 Re: Need Insight III - 01/10/11 02:59 AM
Thanks Pickle... It sounds like you are becoming one of the "wise" ones on this site. smile

And it sounds like you are in a good place. That is great news.
Posted By: InAPickle Re: Need Insight III - 01/10/11 03:34 AM
Interesting little tidbit tonight.
Remember when I posted about D17 and then W getting mad that I talked sitch with her?
Well tonight D17, S11 and I were playing a board game and W is getting ready for bed.
She kisses them both goodnight and totally ignores me when I also say goodnight.
D17 was sitting across from me and our eyes met.
D17 gets a look on her face like WTF was that all about?
Nothing said afterward, but I get a feeling there'll be some chat between them. Can't wait.
Posted By: dbmod Re: Need Insight III - 01/11/11 03:41 AM
Hi Pickle,

I apologize if I've missed it, but I've been reading through and trying to find your wife's complaints. What's so appealing about her exH? You met in a single's group--what pulled you two together?

You mentioned you drifted apart over the years...if you were to drift in her direction, what would you have to do?
Posted By: InAPickle Re: Need Insight III - 01/11/11 05:18 AM
Originally Posted By: dbmod
Hi Pickle,
I apologize if I've missed it, but I've been reading through and trying to find your wife's complaints. What's so appealing about her exH? You met in a single's group--what pulled you two together?
You mentioned you drifted apart over the years...if you were to drift in her direction, what would you have to do?


Circumstances brought us together. Honestly, looking back I don't know what drew her to me, besides chemistry. I was 31 she 29, We seemed both ready to settle down. I was successful, confident but shy - still am to a degree. Life takes a toll and I've had my own midlife transition, but never dreamed things could get like this.

If I knew what would make her drift in my direction I would jump right on it. She's definately struggling with age. Depression has been in her family: cousin, mother, brother, I can think of right off the bat. The past year she's been, I cannot really describe it, a real bitch, to a point where I even fantasized D finding someone else to fill the void myself, but it was always fantasy, and then, you know what happens to a man when.....

To me it seems she came right out of the blue with the D bomb, when I fully and totally expected her to be the one to give me the ultimatum to do MC or retrouvaille. Said we've been living like roommates. Sh!t, I used to have fun with my roommates!

The catalyst was definately her exH seeking her out over the internet. She resisted at first, but after a couple of months caved and was drawn into an EA. He's married 10 yrs with a S6 and apparently unhappy so he went trolling.

Now she obviously thinks she's better off single and available for more romance, but I am the obstacle to those dreams. I can only draw her back if she realizes there's something worth salvaging, like protecting S11 from the trauma of D. Her own mother did the same to her and younger brother at about the same age, which she despises her mother for. So I Don't understand how she could be seduced by all this.

Over the past few weeks she's put more distance between us in spite of my LTR's 180's and GAL, but I get the sense that is a result of more internal conflict. Things are gonna come to a head soon: she'll either file and force a D down my throat or have second thoughts, but things are not going to go on the present way much longer. I'm just detaching and waiting.

The only thing I have going for me right now is that OM is 500 miles away and she cannot afford the time or $ to make further trips. It has to fizzle out if he remains with his W and S.

SO that leaves her MLC, stuck in a tunuel with me trying to draw her out into the real world. I am open to suggestions.
Posted By: dbmod Re: Need Insight III - 01/11/11 05:40 AM
People often do the thing they hate most, they thing they think they would never do. It doesn't make it ok, but it makes us human. Coming back around full circle can be a strong act of love.

Detaching and waiting MIGHT be enough.

Protecting her children from the same trauma she had MIGHT work, but if she has a brain fog going, it might take more than that. What things do you think you could do that would make you a more attractive option?

Having fun is a strong 'bonding' agent. What activities have you two done together in the past that were a lot of fun? Or what is 'out there' that you two never did together, but always wanted to do?

Howa re other thigngs going for you--job etc--again I apologize if I missed it...I will go back and read again as well.
Posted By: dbmod Re: Need Insight III - 01/11/11 05:54 AM
Since she hasn't spoken her complaints, what has changed about you personally from the time you were first in love til now?

What are the differences between you and her exH?
Posted By: InAPickle Re: Need Insight III - 01/11/11 03:42 PM
Originally Posted By: dbmod
People often do the thing they hate most, they thing they think they would never do. It doesn't make it ok, but it makes us human. Coming back around full circle can be a strong act of love.

Detaching and waiting MIGHT be enough.

Protecting her children from the same trauma she had MIGHT work, but if she has a brain fog going, it might take more than that. What things do you think you could do that would make you a more attractive option?

Having fun is a strong 'bonding' agent. What activities have you two done together in the past that were a lot of fun? Or what is 'out there' that you two never did together, but always wanted to do?

Howa re other thigngs going for you--job etc--again I apologize if I missed it...I will go back and read again as well.


After 18 years of marriage, there were a lot of fun times we shared together. Mostly those were times in the company of friends and family, like parties, vacations, get-togethers, sporting events.

When it comes to one on one with only me, we only dated ten months before the wedding and it seemed like a whirlwind, our destiny, I’ve found my soul mate kind of thing. We were happy just planning and nest building, shopping, watching TV, being around each other, nothing extra special. It was enough or so it seemed to me at least. But she always seemed to have the most fun in a group setting and that’s the way it’s been to this very day.

I cannot think off the top of my head anything we always wanted to do together but never got around to. Funny thing: we always wanted a pool, and this past summer in the midst of her EA she initiated that endeavor almost on impulse; I went along even though it put us further debt. Perhaps there’s a communication breakdown there, we haven’t talked those kinds of dreams, except of course the fantasy things we don’t have the money to do.

In 2007 we did take the kids and met extended family on an awesome vacation trip, Hong Kong, Beijing, London, Paris, a whole month. But since then only she and the kids have been anywhere, like Disney or Washington DC. Work was good and I got paid for that whole month. She’s a teacher so she gets time off in the spring and all summer. With the economy tanking since 2008, I’ve had to work and couldn’t (or felt at the time I couldn’t) take any time off. I think she resented that I did not plan to go on those trips.

As far as the job goes, I’ve endured two pay cuts since 2009, taking home 60% of what was and there’s no time off with pay. I can take off any time I want now without pay.
Posted By: InAPickle Re: Need Insight III - 01/11/11 04:29 PM
Originally Posted By: dbmod
Since she hasn't spoken her complaints, what has changed about you personally from the time you were first in love til now?

What are the differences between you and her exH?


Like I said earlier, I've been through my own midlife transition. Under the stresses of life: bills, job, kids, increasing distance from W, I retreated to my man cave: the screened in porch where I enjoyed sports, beer and a good cigar. Mind you now, I wasn't trying to get away from anyone, I just couldn't smoke indoors and the kids were more often than not hogging the TV with some show or playing wii. But it made me look really bad. She even complained once that I was watching the same show outside that they were watching inside, but I was puffing on a stoogie so whatever, no excuse I guess. Hind sight is 20/20.

One of my biggest mistakes was trying to shelter her from the worry of how really bleak things were at work with the crumbling economy and all (I'm in construction). I should have confided in her like the marriage partner I was supposed to be.

The changes I have made so far has been to try and do more with the kids, like the board game we were playing the other night. Over Christmas break we all went to the movies as a family to see Narnia and Tron. I've cut way, way back on the beer, even lost a couple inches. I've always worked out so that's nothing new. Since W is kind of avoiding me, I save the cigars in the man cave until kids in bed or immersed in homework. You know how kids always procrastinate till late.

The one thing that really matters I cannot do anything about now, which is taking her for granted, thinking she'd always be around - no matter what. I kind of enjoyed unwinding by myself or with a buddy, knowing in the back of my mind, W was gonna be around, even if things were rocky, we'd get around to talking about it sooner or later. Like a fool I waited for her to take the lead. I just did not see, or hear, or ignored, the signs or was afraid to push someone on depression meds, plus she was being unpleasant, I don't know - just classic taking the spouse for granted.

What is the difference between me and OM? Well he's an old flame yet a novelty and with intreague, at least before she went to visit him. His emails "woo" her (her exact words on bomb day) Physically he's no Adonis (seen his facebook, more like Danny Divito) but does have a height advantage. W is my height and in our better days would always wear flats (for me) but these past months - nothing but heels. I know practically nothing about him since they were long divorced befor W and I even met, I did not inquire 'cause I was not interested. She'd had other BF's in between.

I don't think she's that taken him, it's just that since he initially got her all excited, I think she obviously wants a more out of life than she forsees in the future with me, probably a romance novel experience before getting too old and, well, I am in the way. Her diet is nothing but cashews, cheese & crackers, and salad. She seems hell bent on losing those last few pounds. I don't know her anymore. She was always a moral, good person, and I don't want to sound like I am judging, (God knows I'm no saint) but now it wouldn't surprise to be served tomorrow.

The only time she wants to "talk", it's about D, never about R or M. I just don't [edited word--dbmod] know. (sorry)
Posted By: angel61 Re: Need Insight III - 01/11/11 06:14 PM
Just a thought ....

Sometimes it may not be the differences per se (Physical, behavioural) between OP and ourselves that attracts the WAS. Its the novelty - the romance, the sense of freedom , when they communicate, there are no childcare issues, house issues, money issues - it is the escape. How can you compete with that?


My H said that succinctly during bomb day - that when he got to know OW, who was freshly divorced then, what struck him was her sense of freedom from the stifling relationship she had with her exH, and then H felt that he wanted that feling of freedom as well.
Posted By: dbmod Re: Need Insight III - 01/11/11 06:46 PM
I'm sorry. Your story is familiar, with details changed.

Being wooed, feeling young is very important to someone who sees that slipping away and to someone who needs that to make them feel more attractive.

It's hard because if you're in a place where she needs you to woo her, but wants no part of YOU wooing her right now, it's a catch 22. You just have to make things as good and attractive to her as you can now, and wait for your moment to strike, so to speak.

One of my biggest mistakes was trying to shelter her from the worry of how really bleak things were at work with the crumbling economy and all (I'm in construction). I should have confided in her like the marriage partner I was supposed to be.


I apologize, I remember reading this with someone, and couldn't find it in your thread when I reread your thread.

Sometimes the job and 'coolness' factor is part of that. What can you do to up your ante on those things? Is money important to her? Or was the partner aspect more important to her?




Posted By: InAPickle Re: Need Insight III - 01/11/11 07:39 PM
Originally Posted By: dbmod
Sometimes the job and 'coolness' factor is part of that. What can you do to up your ante on those things? Is money important to her? Or was the partner aspect more important to her?


Oh, money's important to her alright. That's why she had the crazy idea of being divorced roommates, 'cause we'd only get half what our house is worth, that is if we could sell it, plus the kids would remain in the home with mom and dad for a while.

The partner aspect is more like what my coach told me about our drifting apart and losing the emotional connection. It could have contributed - or not, don't know for sure.
Posted By: InAPickle Re: Need Insight III - 01/11/11 08:54 PM
Little journaling here:

Last night was bunko nite at our house.
So W wants all of us out (of the way)
D17 goes over to her BF's house.
S11 and I go to friend's to watch the BCS championship.

As I am pulling out of the drive, one of the bunko guests pulls in. She walks over to my car to say "hi" gives me a hug thru the window and then goes on, "I'm so sorry about everything; these things happen etc etc." I reply, "That's okay, everything's going to be okay; have fun; win something," and I pull off with S11.

So there's one of her confidants.

Later that night after we get home and S11 is in bed (school night you know), W is cleaning up after the party. I had helped set up beforehand, straightening up the place and vacuuming and stuff. W says "Thank you for helping tonight." She sounded obligated I guess, since the rest of the time is silent treatment. I retreat to the cave to catch the 2nd half; W goes off to shower and bed, ignoring me.

Just reporting on events. Why do I feel like D day is getting closer?
Posted By: dbmod Re: Need Insight III - 01/11/11 09:24 PM
It doesn't have to go that way.

I don't ask the money question to be cynical, I'm sure the connection part is real. My perspective is that people often ignore the 400 pound gorilla.

If money is important to her, youth is important to her, these things may be about her image or her life as she dreamed it would be. Waiting for someone to snap out of an MLC isn't always the best strategy...MEET THAT NEED of hers. That makes you the more attractive option. As sandi2 describes well, when you are the more attractive option, THAT'S WHEN you have are in a good place to set boundaries while growing your relationship. (That's what we call piecing--the growing, starting over part.)

So if there is something you can do to improve your job situation, your income, your fun or coolness level (according to HER view), you will be in a place of greater strength.

What do YOU think you can do?
Posted By: InAPickle Re: Need Insight III - 01/11/11 10:02 PM
Originally Posted By: dbmod
It doesn't have to go that way.

If money is important to her, youth is important to her, these things may be about her image or her life as she dreamed it would be. Waiting for someone to snap out of an MLC isn't always the best strategy...MEET THAT NEED of hers. That makes you the more attractive option. As sandi2 describes well, when you are the more attractive option, THAT'S WHEN you have are in a good place to set boundaries while growing your relationship. (That's what we call piecing--the growing, starting over part.)

So if there is something you can do to improve your job situation, your income, your fun or coolness level (according to HER view), you will be in a place of greater strength.

What do YOU think you can do?


Bottom line is we make enough between us to live comfortibly enough, but seperately would be a financial struggle for sure.

I could look for something else, but I am tethered by my licensing to present employer and he would be really screwed if I left. And the economy in my sector is not recovering fast enough for higher paying positions to come open - excuses I know. I can still look around, but wouldn't hold my breath. I wouldn't make a lateral move.

I am not sure that I am competing with the OM directly, but more of an idea of another life. Heck she used our money to fly away and stay in a hotel at OM's invite, and he didn't shell out a nickle.

My competition I think is a fantasy of freedom like Angel61 alluded to; bunko, tailgating, girls night out, flirting with other men, maybe meeting someone special or younger, all the while still being mom but not wife KWIM?

I remember not too long ago we were hanging out at the home of some close friends, just chatting and enjoying each other's company, and she said we were boring. Right now I don't get any indication she wants me to meet her needs.

I've got to think hard to come up with someting,'cause I am not one of the girls, or a new guy, or younger etc. I'm trying to be fun, but it's hard in the cold.
Posted By: dbmod Re: Need Insight III - 01/11/11 11:46 PM
What did you used to do together when you were in love?
Posted By: Denver_2010 Re: Need Insight III - 01/12/11 12:37 AM
Just read the specifics of what led you here Pickle. Our stories are very, very similar. I guess we at least see where we messed up so that we can learn from it. I hope that you are doing well.
Posted By: InAPickle Re: Need Insight III - 01/12/11 01:01 AM
Originally Posted By: dbmod
What did you used to do together when you were in love?


That's just it. We used to do together. Get a sitter and go on a date or with another couple. We behaved like a couple, nothing special.

It's easier if I list what we don't do together(more often than not) which we almost always did together.

Go to mass.
Watch TV (a program we both liked)
Go out for a drink or coffee.
Go out to dinner.
Shopping
Plan home improvements (His Honey Do's)
Plan home decor (Her Honey Do's)
Read in bed (before going to sleep or ML)
Talk, talk
Oh and Talk.

All blase stuff, nothing out of the ordinary.
She seemed happy, and I assume half the blame for letting it slip away.
Posted By: InAPickle Re: Need Insight III - 01/13/11 03:28 AM
Originally Posted By: Denver_2010
Just read the specifics of what led you here Pickle. Our stories are very, very similar. I guess we at least see where we messed up so that we can learn from it. I hope that you are doing well.


Celebrated S11's birthday today, so updated the profile.
Nothing new to report. W is still the same distant person.
I havn't noticed any changes in her.
It's cold out here man.
Posted By: Denver_2010 Re: Need Insight III - 01/13/11 03:36 AM
I seriously doubt if it's as cold there as it is here in Colorado!

I'm about to have a major backslide... I can't take the no contact bw W and I. I'm going to call her to see how she is doing...
Posted By: InAPickle Re: Need Insight III - 01/13/11 04:10 AM
Originally Posted By: Denver_2010
I seriously doubt if it's as cold there as it is here in Colorado!


I was speaking figuratively; W is as cold as icicle toward me.
Posted By: Denver_2010 Re: Need Insight III - 01/13/11 04:13 AM
Originally Posted By: InAPickle
Originally Posted By: Denver_2010
I seriously doubt if it's as cold there as it is here in Colorado!


I was speaking figuratively; W is as cold as icicle toward me.


I was too... only bc of darkness bw W and I... haven't even had a chance for W to be cold to me. I'd almost take that right now...
Posted By: Denver_2010 Re: Need Insight III - 01/13/11 04:16 AM
Although it is actually really cold here.
Posted By: InAPickle Re: Need Insight III - 01/13/11 01:35 PM
Originally Posted By: dbmod
It doesn't have to go that way.

I don't ask the money question to be cynical, I'm sure the connection part is real. My perspective is that people often ignore the 400 pound gorilla.



dbmod:
I hope I understood you correctly, but just to be sure.
What exactly did you see as the 400lb gorilla?
Posted By: InAPickle Re: Need Insight III - 01/13/11 01:46 PM
Got a question for the forum:

Now you may not believe this but after 18 yrs of marriage, I feel like I don't even know my W anymore, so I want to find out what her LL's really are.

I myself took the online survey.

But how can I find out hers without pursuing?
Posted By: Denver_2010 Re: Need Insight III - 01/13/11 08:42 PM
Hey Pickle. I don't have an answer to your question bc I haven't read the book. But thought I'd reply to give you a bump so that maybe someone else can weigh in.
Posted By: InAPickle Re: Need Insight III - 01/14/11 04:22 AM
Thanks Denver.
Looks like I've counfounded everybody. Oh well.

S12 and I are camping, or should I say freezing our butts off, with the boyscouts this weekend. It will be good to get away for a couple of days.
Posted By: mj144 Re: Need Insight III - 01/14/11 04:44 AM
Read the book 5 Love Languages by Gary Chapman. It is very helpful. They are:
1. Words of Affirmation
2. Receiving Gifts
3. Acts of Service
4. Physical Touch
5. Quality Time
Posted By: InAPickle Re: Need Insight III - 01/14/11 05:02 AM
Just a curiosity here.

Remember when I posted W was reading a self help book on finding happiness? Well I guess she's finished with it b/c for the last few days it's been left on the kitchen counter, not laying flat mind you, but propped up against the backsplash as if on display at a book store. That's highly unusual. We have hundreds of books in bookcases throughout the house, and whenever she's done with a book she'll put it back on the shelf. Wonder if she wants someone to pick it up? May be one of her bunko guests from the other night?

The book is "Thrive, finding happiness the blue zones way" by: Dan Beuttner.

I have flipped through it and am not enticed by it. Hypothetically though, if she wanted me to look at it wouldn't it make sense just to say, "I think you should read this"?

The fact that she devoured it in less than a week, screams to me that she has not "found happiness" and is still looking. But I already know she's not happy - Duh!

The only thing I can think of is she might want me to sneak a peak and suddenly be enlightened by it's wisdom and eureka! I can be happily divorced. And then I can "cooperate" in her plans.

Am I thinking too much about this?
Trust me, I would not be if it was not unusual.
Posted By: Denver_2010 Re: Need Insight III - 01/14/11 07:07 AM
Originally Posted By: InAPickle

The only thing I can think of is she might want me to sneak a peak and suddenly be enlightened by it's wisdom and eureka! I can be happily divorced. And then I can "cooperate" in her plans.

Am I thinking too much about this?
Trust me, I would not be if it was not unusual.


I agree that it is very odd the way the book was positioned in your kitchen. I definitely would think that it was done on purpose. I'm not saying though that I think that she thought you'd read it, be enlightened, and then agree to be happily divorced. Maybe she wanted you to look at it to understand the what and why of her feelings right now. I don't know, but I think you are right that she was up to something.
Posted By: Truegritter Re: Need Insight III - 01/14/11 12:16 PM
Originally Posted By: Pickle
Am I thinking too much about this?


Ayep.

On your LL question. Now is the not the time IMO for you to be discovering her LL

I think that could come into play in the reconciliation stage.

What would you do with the info you gain on her love language?

When I read it and took the little test I could pretty much guess what I think my W is.

But then again I may not know so...

Don't you wish people were more like dogs? If we had tails you could pretty much tell when they are happy huh?
Posted By: InAPickle Re: Need Insight III - 01/14/11 12:37 PM
Originally Posted By: Truegritter
[quote=Pickle]Don't you wish people were more like dogs? If we had tails you could pretty much tell when they are happy huh?


I just thought if I knew her LL's I could subtly work on them w/o pursuing.

I know W is not happy - not around me anyway.

She's all jokes and laughter with her GF's etc, but around the house, it's obvious, even when she's trying to interact nicely w/kids.

There is no joy in being not happy and then pretending to be happy around everyone else - I know 'cause I've been struggling with that myself.

The thing I really seek no matter what emotion I am experiencing or what mood I happen to be in is the inner joy, which comes from believing in something no matter what I see going on all around me.

I had that once and I'm gonna get there again.
Posted By: InAPickle Re: Need Insight III - 01/14/11 02:08 PM
Long Distance EA Snooping report.
(W in FL, OM in OH)

I checked W's phone activity on line this AM.

Yesterday, she and OM sent/rec'd 29 text messages

Before 8:00 AM today there were 3.

What??

So in love they cannot stay away from texting?
Planning another rendevous?
Fighting?

It's mind boggling, anyone seen this kind of thing before?
Posted By: habitacker Re: Need Insight III - 01/14/11 02:22 PM
I thought the 5 love languages book seemed useless at this point other than just more info if I get to reconciliation.

It really stinks that there is so much info for working on marriage, but so very little for the stage we are in.
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