Divorcebusting.com
Posted By: robx Do you feel bullied? Be honest! - 11/08/10 04:03 PM
I posted this in another thread but thought maybe it would benefit by having it's own thread, here it is again:

Question time :-)

For... EVERYONE


Do you feel that a few of the veterans on this site (myself included definitely) push advice down your throats?

Do you feel bullied by myself or other veterans?

Do you have issues with my style of advice or other veterans on this site? If you just want to focus on me if that makes answering this question easier so be it, no worries.

But please speak up!

These forums are anonymous,
I'm not going to hunt you down and give you a beating if you tell me you don't like my advice style or feel like you're being bullied to take advice that you don't agree with.

For the record,
I doubt that puppy would have done that either back in the day when he frequented these forums on a daily basis. I sure as heck know that coach wouldn't do that to anyone, or Gucci or Steve or Sandi or Greek or any of the other countless vets that comment on these forums.

If you don't feel offended by our style of advice,
Do you like our style of advice? If so, why?

I would love to hear all viewpoints/opinions on this.


Originally posted on:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2098714#Post2098714
Posted By: pinhead Re: Do you feel bullied? Be honest! - 11/08/10 04:10 PM
I've been on the receiving end of many 2x4s and WTFs from the vets. 99% of them have been well deserved. The other 1%, well, I attribute those to posting while intoxicated (;)), differences of opinion, or the difficulty in communicating online.

But I'm sorely disappointed in the moderation that has gone on the last month. A resource that was vital for me in coping with my situation has been gutted.
Posted By: loweinsd51 Re: Do you feel bullied? Be honest! - 11/08/10 04:12 PM
In a nutshell...No.

Two things:

1) I look at the theme of the advice that is given and don't take the 2 x 4's personally...sum of the parts I guess. No one is going to DB perfectly and while the specifics of our sitch's are different, they all follow a common script.

2) I think the advice that the vets give and the questions that the vet's ask are the same questions that we ask ourselves but are afraid to answer because deep down inside we know what the answer is.
Posted By: DanF Re: Do you feel bullied? Be honest! - 11/08/10 04:16 PM
I like your style Robx and do not get offended by it. I look forward to reading all of your posts and wish that I had found this site earlier when my sitch was still new. You are more direct than most of the other vets, but I appreciate everyones advice.

Actually, I would really appreciate it if you would look over some of my recent posts and give me your opinion of what I should do next. I really admire what you did with your M. I think your advice would be to focus on myself and my kids and to start dating. I am trying, but it is difficult to accept that this R is over after 23 years.

The problem is that so many vets have been banned or given up, that I am not sure this site is worth as much anymore.

Keep up the good work and thanks for all you do.
Posted By: asher Re: Do you feel bullied? Be honest! - 11/08/10 04:18 PM
I think that the advice given by the vets is very good. It's the only way you're going to rebuild a healthy relationship. Sure, you might get your M back another way, but who wants to be in a R where you feel like you have no power?

I think it's tough advice to swallow, though. And when you first get here, you are terrified, unable to think rationally, and I think that it takes time to get to the point where you are willing to implement the advice. For everyone it's personal, but I think everyone gets there at some point.
Posted By: Starsky309 Re: Do you feel bullied? Be honest! - 11/08/10 04:24 PM

Rob,

Great thread. I hope they don't take it down.

I personally NEEDED all of the 2x4s I received when I first got here (under a different username, way back in the day). I didn't want to HEAR them, mind you, at least not at first, but when I look back it was some of the best advice I'd ever been given. I just wished I would have listened sooner.

Message forums should be freewheeling, and self-censoring. If someone's advice doesn't hold up to the intellectual rigor and scrutiny, by others dissenting and explaining WHY they disagree, then it gets dismissed. As it should be.

A healthy message forum needs both vets AND new blood/new thinking in order to be effective, IMHO. But what do I know.

Starsky
Posted By: robx Re: Do you feel bullied? Be honest! - 11/08/10 04:25 PM
Originally Posted By: Lostinlife
No, the advice isn't pushed......No, not bullied....No issues.

Fact is, we are here, we need advice. Without the advice, we may as well just sign the papers and agree to whatever the WS says....

That is a fact.

I wish the vets would chime in more on my sitch...it changes daily...

Just my opinion. If the vets are gone, the board is of no use.
Posted By: robx Re: Do you feel bullied? Be honest! - 11/08/10 04:25 PM
Originally Posted By: Lostinlife
in fact, we are being bullied by the WS with kids aet.....we need the advice.
Posted By: chocolateeyes Re: Do you feel bullied? Be honest! - 11/08/10 04:29 PM

I'm honored to reply to you, Rob. Your posts have given me more personal encouragement, wisdom and strength than you'll probably ever know.

When I first got here, I HATED some of the "tough stuff" the vets back then told me. Corri, NOPkins, Hairdog, and some of the others make Coach look like a lovable little puppy dog by comparison, and there were times I hated them for it.

But looking back -- and reading what they wrote to me -- I now see that 95% of it was TRUE, and I needed to hear it. And it was only thru their patient exhortation to me that I finally DID listen, and reach out to my wife in her pain and reconcile my marriage.

So no, I never felt "bullied." "Beat up" a little bit, yeah, but I needed it.

Thank you, btw, for your personal story and how you've encouraged me. I don't think I've ever told you that.

Chocolateeyes/Puppy Dog Tails
Posted By: hurtinhartford Re: Do you feel bullied? Be honest! - 11/08/10 04:30 PM
I appreciate the views and counseling from all of the vets. Each have their own style and tactics. However, the core theme that each vet brings is to help you see your own sitch objectively and focus on making you healthy so that you can endure the journey a head whatever the outcome maybe.

robx your style is more blunt and direct than others, but if the receiver listens to the message and not focus on the way it is delivered there is a wealth of knowledge to be had. There are only a few posters that I always go to and you are one. Your message is always direct and to the point and most importantly consistent.
Posted By: gutwrenching Re: Do you feel bullied? Be honest! - 11/08/10 04:33 PM
Quote:
I personally NEEDED all of the 2x4s I received when I first got here I didn't want to HEAR them, mind you, at least not at first, but when I look back it was some of the best advice I'd ever been given. I just wished I would have listened sooner.


That describes me and my thoughts exactly. Although I never received the full force blast from the infamous RobX...it probably would have done me some good. smile

Everyone is on a journey and everyone's timeline is different on that journey...but this is the place to get the straight truth. It is anymous and a chance to vent and listen to different points of views. I actually found it very helpful when I received different points of views because it made me really think and made sure I wasn't falling into a trap of just doing exactly what one person thought...
Posted By: idontunderstand Re: Do you feel bullied? Be honest! - 11/08/10 04:34 PM
Quote:
Do you feel that a few of the veterans on this site (myself included definitely) push advice down your throats?

Do you feel bullied by myself or other veterans?

Do you have issues with my style of advice or other veterans on this site? If you just want to focus on me if that makes answering this question easier so be it, no worries


I a word - NO.

IMO, most of the things those of us who are struggling with our sitches need to hear are things we don't want to hear. I know that was definitely true for me early on.

Now, I find myself struggling, a year later, with implementing the wise advice I have been given over and over again. It is all on me, now. I have never felt bullied or intimidated. Yeah, there were times that I thought, "This guy is an a$$, he or she doesn't understand my sitch, it's different." As we all realize at one point, our stich's do have individual characteristics, but at their core, they aren't all so different.

Some use a "tough love" approach, some use sarcasm, etc. It's all good. Most vets should give up when it's clear to see we aren't following their advice. They must feel as if they are beating a dead horse. But they don't. They keep trying to get us to understand. Those who do get offended need to get a thicker skin.

This is the most difficult thing that most of us have faced. It's no fun and it's not easy. We don't need to be told what we want to hear, that wouldn't help anyone. There is a place for support and I find myself leaning that way with my posts. The vets have a special role because they have been there and come through on the other side better people. Marriages saved or not, if the vets weren't here, we would all just be crying on each other's shoulders. As I said, there's a need for that, too.

But, to learn and grow and be successful DBr's, the vets cannot be replaced.

I would like to say thanks for sticking with me and hammering me over the head and trying to make me see why things work and why they don't. We all have different, what?, speeds at understanding and implementing advice given. Most of the vets recognize this and try to be patient. This board has been a lifesaver for me and I am still learning from everyone. We all need to take the advice as intended. Everyone is trying to help. Period.


Just moving post to it's rightful home. wink


_________________________
Me-43
W-36
TS-10
D-7
S-4
M-11
Rings off-8/16/2010

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1933641#Post1933641
Posted By: loweinsd51 Re: Do you feel bullied? Be honest! - 11/08/10 04:50 PM
Originally Posted By: idontunderstand
Those who do get offended need to get a thicker skin.


Amen
Posted By: dsh4320 Re: Do you feel bullied? Be honest! - 11/08/10 05:19 PM
Tough love baby!!! HAHA The cold truth is what helps people get the courage they need. Ya sometimes a blow to the stomach is what is needed to do the right thing! You know my answer rob, I have reached out to you on more than one occassion.
Posted By: ShockedOne Re: Do you feel bullied? Be honest! - 11/08/10 05:24 PM
I miss Puppy Dog here. He didn't sugar coat anything for me and usually had the right advice for everybody.
Posted By: Kimmie Lee Re: Do you feel bullied? Be honest! - 11/08/10 05:30 PM
Look upthread......
Posted By: LanceSijan Re: Do you feel bullied? Be honest! - 11/08/10 05:33 PM
I think, and I will probably get banned for saying this, that the problem is all about money!

None of the vets charge for their advice.

This website is here for the reason of getting people to sign up for DB coaching and to promote MWD.

Lets all face that FACT.

Anything that is posted that does not meet with that objective is not in the best interests of that company.

Although we may promote her books and DB'ing in general.
We are also the "competiton".

Lets face it business is bad everywhere and sometimes hard decisions must be made from a business point of view.

I think the decsions being made here "just business"
Unless we generate more profit for MWD we are all in line for getting banned.

Thats just my .02.
Posted By: PEI Re: Do you feel bullied? Be honest! - 11/08/10 05:38 PM
Originally Posted By: loweinsd51
Originally Posted By: idontunderstand
Those who do get offended need to get a thicker skin.


Amen

Thicker skin? Good lord ... agreed ... but in TIME! We're talking about the walking wounded here people.

That being said ... to answer Rob's question ...

Rob, you've never posted directly to me so no, not directly offended by any of your posts. And although I agree with the vast majority of what you say, I do find your style a little over the top. Perhaps it's on purpose, knowing that most newbies might react to the "shock and awe factor", perhaps it's just your personality ... whatever, to each his own. As long as we all check our egos at the door, welcome debate and stay respectful, I've got no problem. Coach, Greek and PDT have all posted to me and I've never been offended by anything they've posted, or their style of posting either. Direct is usually effective (eventually!). And we all know ... "do what works" smile

I would agree that a variety of styles, perspectives and opinions is what made this board so effective at supporting and advising the people who post here. I do conceed that we need to respect MWD and the DB philosophy and would argue that the majority of vets do, while drawing on their personal sitchs to augment what the books have to offer.

I would also like to point out that my only concern re some of the advice given is that sometimes it seems that there isn't enough focus on helping the noob get to a place where they are following the advice (setting them free, letting go, dropping the rope ... and setting boundaries) from a calm, non-emotional (NOT angry, resentful, vengeful) place. I know you all advocate it, but it seems to get lost in the noise ... with the focus so heavily leaning towards the tactics (the WHAT) sometimes it seems like the HOW (and better yet, how the noob can achieve the HOW) gets too little attention. JMHO.

Peace
PEI
Posted By: Kimmie Lee Re: Do you feel bullied? Be honest! - 11/08/10 05:43 PM
Originally Posted By: LanceSijan
I think, and I will probably get banned for saying this, that the problem is all about money!

None of the vets charge for their advice.

This website is here for the reason of getting people to sign up for DB coaching and to promote MWD.

Lets all face that FACT.

Anything that is posted that does not meet with that objective is not in the best interests of that company.

Although we may promote her books and DB'ing in general.
We are also the "competiton".

Lets face it business is bad everywhere and sometimes hard decisions must be made from a business point of view.

I think the decsions being made here "just business"
Unless we generate more profit for MWD we are all in line for getting banned.

Thats just my .02.


Yep.

And irony can be so ironic.....given the fact that we always tell noobs to BUY a copy of MWD books....
Posted By: soleil Re: Do you feel bullied? Be honest! - 11/08/10 05:43 PM
Rob, I don't recall you posting on my original post but for me personally, the advice I got from the beginning was stuff I should have taken (Get a L STAT). In the end, it felt like the advice in my original post tapered off and that made me feel kind of sad. LOL. I wanted to hear more in the end of that first thread & felt like I didn't...

Cutterbug used to make me laugh so hard w/ his countdown in my original thread. Gnosis always had some great advice, too.

I think you give great advice, as well as the other vet posters...
Posted By: So Ashamed Re: Do you feel bullied? Be honest! - 11/08/10 06:18 PM
I wish you'd comment on my sitch, but I'm the kind of person you probably aren't interested in speaking to. But I'd love your advice anyway. I am the one who did wrong and my husband walked away. I used to get my feelings hurt when Coach or Steve McQ would post their brutally honest advice/opinions, but I deserve it. I don't need to be coddled. I made my mess, now I just want an opportunity to clean it up.
Posted By: Gnosis Re: Do you feel bullied? Be honest! - 11/08/10 06:36 PM
I'm still alive and well. I've been too busy to frequent the forums of late, but have my "spies" keeping me informed of anything of interest like this thread.

So... did I feel bullied? Nope.

I appreciated reading the perspectives of different people - both hardliners and what Puppy used to call "Bo Peeps." Just like all advice it is up the the reader to take what is applicable and APPLY it. Test the approach for a while and measure results. If it don't work toss it, if it does, do more.

Oh, and as for my R status... Fully reconciled and life is good.
Posted By: MrBond Re: Do you feel bullied? Be honest! - 11/08/10 06:41 PM
I don't think alot of it was "forced" on the posters. Just some of the "vets" postings were "it's my way or the highway". There were also some times I've seen that they went beyond just being 2 x 4s and escalated into name calling, etc.

I think there was a point where this became more of the "how to bust your spouse's affair" rather than divorce busting. With things revolving the "action" of the affair rather than the reasons for why the affair happened, people seemed to become obsessed that once the affairs were done with, things would go right back to normal.
Posted By: soleil Re: Do you feel bullied? Be honest! - 11/08/10 06:44 PM
Originally Posted By: Gnosis
I'm still alive and well.

Oh, and as for my R status... Fully reconciled and life is good.


So nice to see you again! smile I am glad things worked out in your M, Gno!
Posted By: 40andsadintexas Re: Do you feel bullied? Be honest! - 11/08/10 06:48 PM
I wish the vets would have jumped me more. I think since I detached they left me alone. I think or maybe every one just knows mine was a lost cause :-)
Posted By: DumpedforMIL Re: Do you feel bullied? Be honest! - 11/08/10 06:57 PM
Quote:
I would also like to point out that my only concern re some of the advice given is that sometimes it seems that there isn't enough focus on helping the noob get to a place where they are following the advice (setting them free, letting go, dropping the rope ... and setting boundaries) from a calm, non-emotional (NOT angry, resentful, vengeful) place. I know you all advocate it, but it seems to get lost in the noise ... with the focus so heavily leaning towards the tactics (the WHAT) sometimes it seems like the HOW (and better yet, how the noob can achieve the HOW) gets too little attention.

i agree with PEI.

i understand why the vets are frustrated when it takes a while for the advice to sink in. newbies who come here are often very emotional and in their own fog. rightfully so due to what they have been dealt - which is probably an 8x16 from their WAS. after being hit by a mack truck, how effective will a 2x4 be?

you have to figure out a way to help them clear the fog before you tell them to 'let go'/drop the rope. advice simply won't sink when they are distraught or desperate. that's why most of them say "i did the begging and pleading thing". vets should know that it took them a while to drop the rope. you are able to look back and say 'if i had only dropped the rope sooner.' the newbie won't understand that. sometimes the newbie has to take that walk of shame in order to come to their senses. there are no short cuts ..

the advice in general is good. healthy debate is good. it won't be the same here.
Posted By: Starsky309 Re: Do you feel bullied? Be honest! - 11/08/10 06:59 PM
Originally Posted By: MrBond


I think there was a point where this became more of the "how to bust your spouse's affair" rather than divorce busting. With things revolving the "action" of the affair rather than the reasons for why the affair happened, people seemed to become obsessed that once the affairs were done with, things would go right back to normal.


What amazes me, however, is how this approach is frowned upon even on the INFIDELITY forum. I mean, reasonable people can disagree about its appropriateness (or timing) on Newcomers, say, or whether or not an "MLC affair" is substantively different than a "normal" affair (whatever that is), but c'mon, on an INFIDELITY forum? Isn't that pretty much the PURPOSE of such a forum -- to get help in busting the infidelity?

I think if your perception that such a forum is for "how to DEAL/COPE with infidelity," vs. one that's more problem-solving in nature like "how to BUST the infidelity," then you're going to have an entirely different perspective than one who views it as the latter.

Starsky
Posted By: idontunderstand Re: Do you feel bullied? Be honest! - 11/08/10 07:18 PM
Quote:
Thicker skin? Good lord ... agreed ... but in TIME! We're talking about the walking wounded here people.



You are right, PEI. Thanks for clarifying for me.

Walking wounded, hurt, scared, lost, in a panic.....We are not in a good place when we first come here. I really didn't mean to suggest a thick skin for newbies. I think most people here recognize that phase in this journey and tailor their advice accordingly and with good intentions.
Posted By: Serenity13 Re: Do you feel bullied? Be honest! - 11/08/10 07:24 PM
Did I feel bullied?

Good question and the answer is no...

I was blessed from the start with Puppy and for whatever reason he wouldn't give up... Back then, if you had asked, I may have said yes.... Today I am grateful for his tenacity...He forced me to look within myself and wouldn't let me wallow in self-pity & self-doubt.

Was my marriage saved because of it? No...

But I was and that is more important on any given day IMO.

I have had some wonderful vets on my threads and I could list each of them however I won't T/J like that... I am thankful to each of them for the contribution they have given me regarding my sitch.

I am most grateful to Him, for bridging the gap left by my H, with some truly wonderful people.

(((Hugs)))
Posted By: maple Re: Do you feel bullied? Be honest! - 11/08/10 07:25 PM
I never felt bullied.

Actually, I remember getting upset when PDT said my H was most liking involved w/ OW and he said he would back off with his advice if it was upsetting me so much. I responded to have no fear on holding back... I needed to hear the truth.
Posted By: Starsky309 Re: Do you feel bullied? Be honest! - 11/08/10 07:38 PM
Originally Posted By: Serenity13


I am most grateful to Him, for bridging the gap left by my H, with some truly wonderful people.

(((Hugs)))


Yeah, He's pretty good at that whole "tenacious" thing too, isn't He? smirk
Posted By: Serenity13 Re: Do you feel bullied? Be honest! - 11/08/10 09:18 PM
Originally Posted By: Starsky309
Originally Posted By: Serenity13


I am most grateful to Him, for bridging the gap left by my H, with some truly wonderful people.

(((Hugs)))


Yeah, He's pretty good at that whole "tenacious" thing too, isn't He? smirk


smile smile smile That He is...

Now if only Puppy was around to thank once again... (((Hugs)))
Posted By: Greek Re: Do you feel bullied? Be honest! - 11/08/10 09:21 PM
Originally Posted By: LanceSijan
I think, and I will probably get banned for saying this, that the problem is all about money!

None of the vets charge for their advice.

This website is here for the reason of getting people to sign up for DB coaching and to promote MWD.

Lets all face that FACT.

Anything that is posted that does not meet with that objective is not in the best interests of that company.

Although we may promote her books and DB'ing in general.
We are also the "competiton".

Lets face it business is bad everywhere and sometimes hard decisions must be made from a business point of view.

I think the decsions being made here "just business"
Unless we generate more profit for MWD we are all in line for getting banned.

Thats just my .02.


Lance,
I agree with you. I noticed all of a sudden there is a thread promoting all of the wonderful advice the official DB Coach's have given going back to 2005.

My question is - just where were they - the DB Coaches - when we were keeping suicide watch on the poster a few months ago who was ready to end it (remember the golf pro)? Where were all of these coaches when people show up here SHAKING with fear, despair and heartbreak upon having JUST found out their spouse is having an affair? Where are these coaches when folks show up to ask for perspective about their court appearances and judgments?

Not a rhetorical question - where are they on this board?

And if they are not here, well then why muzzle anyone who wants to be here and is helpful here?

I think Lance's theory is correct.

Pity.

Greek
Posted By: Kimmie Lee Re: Do you feel bullied? Be honest! - 11/08/10 09:27 PM
Originally Posted By: Serenity13
Originally Posted By: Starsky309
Originally Posted By: Serenity13


I am most grateful to Him, for bridging the gap left by my H, with some truly wonderful people.

(((Hugs)))


Yeah, He's pretty good at that whole "tenacious" thing too, isn't He? smirk


smile smile smile That He is...

Now if only Puppy was around to thank once again... (((Hugs)))


Look upthread.
Posted By: Kimmie Lee Re: Do you feel bullied? Be honest! - 11/08/10 09:29 PM
Originally Posted By: Greek
Originally Posted By: LanceSijan
I think, and I will probably get banned for saying this, that the problem is all about money!

None of the vets charge for their advice.

This website is here for the reason of getting people to sign up for DB coaching and to promote MWD.

Lets all face that FACT.

Right on.

And for a noob to have to try to look for them in addition to what they are going through........well....

Anything that is posted that does not meet with that objective is not in the best interests of that company.

Although we may promote her books and DB'ing in general.
We are also the "competiton".

Lets face it business is bad everywhere and sometimes hard decisions must be made from a business point of view.

I think the decsions being made here "just business"
Unless we generate more profit for MWD we are all in line for getting banned.

Thats just my .02.


Lance,
I agree with you. I noticed all of a sudden there is a thread promoting all of the wonderful advice the official DB Coach's have given going back to 2005.

My question is - just where were they - the DB Coaches - when we were keeping suicide watch on the poster a few months ago who was ready to end it (remember the golf pro)? Where were all of these coaches when people show up here SHAKING with fear, despair and heartbreak upon having JUST found out their spouse is having an affair? Where are these coaches when folks show up to ask for perspective about their court appearances and judgments?

Not a rhetorical question - where are they on this board?

And if they are not here, well then why muzzle anyone who wants to be here and is helpful here?

I think Lance's theory is correct.

Pity.

Greek
Posted By: Kimmie Lee Re: Do you feel bullied? Be honest! - 11/08/10 09:31 PM
Right on.

And for a noob to have to try to look for them in addition to what they are going through........well....


Sorry. The bolded part is mine. It looks like Greek said it in the part I quoted.
Posted By: Kimmie Lee Re: Do you feel bullied? Be honest! - 11/08/10 09:32 PM
I feel bullied because the edit button is disabled.
Posted By: idontunderstand Re: Do you feel bullied? Be honest! - 11/08/10 09:33 PM
Quote:
My question is - just where were they - the DB Coaches - when we were keeping suicide watch on the poster a few months ago who was ready to end it (remember the golf pro)? Where were all of these coaches when people show up here SHAKING with fear, despair and heartbreak upon having JUST found out their spouse is having an affair? Where are these coaches when folks show up to ask for perspective about their court appearances and judgments?

Not a rhetorical question - where are they on this board?And if they are not here, well then why muzzle anyone who wants to be here and is helpful here?

I think Lance's theory is correct.

Pity.

Greek


I think this deserves an answer.

Everyone is here to help. I've never seen an instance that proves otherwise. I have paid my $400 for a DB coach when I didn't really have it. It helped, some. These boards have helped, too. Tremendously.
Posted By: Starsky309 Re: Do you feel bullied? Be honest! - 11/08/10 09:39 PM

Rat OWN, Greek. Rat own, rat own, rat own, rat OWN! cool




Where Were You When I Needed You
as Sung by The Grass Roots, The Bangles, and others
(P. F. Sloan/S. Barri)

Don't bother cryin'
Don't bother crawlin'
It's all over now
No use in stallin'
The love I once felt
I don't feel anymore for you
This time I'll even
Open the door for you

You walked out
When I was down
Well now I'm well off
And look who's comin' around

Where were you when I needed you
Where were you when I wanted you
Where were you when I needed you
Where

You're looking good
It's hard to fight it
There's no use explainin'
I've already decided
That livin' without ya
Is worse than without ya
I won't spend a lifetime
A-worryin' about ya

Things got rough
And you dissappeared
Now I'm back on my feet
And look who's standing there

Where were you when I needed you
Where were you when I wanted you
Where were you when I needed you
Where

You were so young
And you were so wild
I knew you were nobody's
Innocent child
The first day I saw you
You really got to me
I thought I could change ya
What good did it do me

Things got rough
And I couldn't wait
Now you're trippin' back
But babe, it's too late

Where were you when I needed you
Where were you when I wanted you
Where were you when I needed you
Where

Posted By: Starsky309 Re: Do you feel bullied? Be honest! - 11/08/10 09:41 PM
Originally Posted By: Serenity13


Yeah, He's pretty good at that whole "tenacious" thing too, isn't He? smirk


smile smile smile That He is...

Now if only Puppy was around to thank once again... (((Hugs))) [/quote]


But see, that's the thing about puppies, Serenity. You don't have to thank them. A puppy's love is unconditional. wink
Posted By: Ready2Change Re: Do you feel bullied? Be honest! - 11/08/10 09:42 PM
Originally Posted By: robx
Do you feel that a few of the veterans on this site (myself included definitely) push advice down your throats?
Absolutely not.

I observed lots of advice to seek the truth. More advise to bring influential people the truth. I believe that the truth will set you free. I was too week to search the truth....I can see the truth with hind sight.


Regards,

Little Poo Peep
Posted By: pookie69 Re: Do you feel bullied? Be honest! - 11/08/10 09:44 PM
Originally Posted By: Starsky309
But see, that's the thing about puppies, Serenity. You don't have to thank them. A puppy's love is unconditional. wink


Could not agree more. wink
Posted By: williaij Re: Do you feel bullied? Be honest! - 11/08/10 09:51 PM
NO

I haven't posted in a while but I think that the advice that I got here and going out and BUYING the MWD books are the reasons that I am still married and not divorced. You can't have one without the other. I never needed to contact a DB coach b/c I was lucky and my WAW saw the paridigm shift and agreed to work on us together.
Thanks to Greek, Coach, Ready2Change, and others for giving me the words and getting me to a place that would have taken me much longer to reach on my own through 2X4's and all.

M 36
W 35
T 12
M 11
S3
A S or D? on the way
Posted By: Serenity13 Re: Do you feel bullied? Be honest! - 11/08/10 09:52 PM
Star~

Gonna make me all misty talking like that smile

Thank you ~ Always.

(((Hugs)))
Posted By: pookie69 Re: Do you feel bullied? Be honest! - 11/08/10 09:55 PM
Originally Posted By: Serenity13
Star~

Gonna make me all misty talking like that smile

Thank you ~ Always.

(((Hugs)))


Dont get misty. Listen to the spirits. smile
Posted By: pookie69 Re: Do you feel bullied? Be honest! - 11/08/10 10:07 PM
I guess I should pipe in too.

The answer is NO. Being hit with the truth is not being bullied.

Not to say that there hasn't been debates but as long as I've been here I have not seen any bullying.

Which makes me wonder about banned members and disappearing threads.

If there is any bullying it would be the silent shadow moderating with no transparency or explanation.

I would still be a hysterical mess without this place and DR book that brought me here.
Posted By: Starsky309 Re: Do you feel bullied? Be honest! - 11/08/10 10:12 PM
I've read this and RE-read this, and still can't figure out where someone like Coach went wrong. Even the other authors he cited, he SOURCED, and usually just included a LINK to them, but I guess we're supposed to just go by our personal emotions and feelings, and not any actual RESOURCES. Sheesh.



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Posted By: desert_rat Re: Do you feel bullied? Be honest! - 11/08/10 10:14 PM
I was never bullied.
But then there was no infidelity involved.

I do think I have seen posters bullied, but that's for them to decide, not me.

I agree with Mr. Bond though, though I may be in the minority. I think that when the emphasis becomes busting the affair there is a very good chance that even if there is "success" in the short term, if you have moved all of your focus there, and not on how you got there, it's most likely temporary, and if you are not working on yourself, you are probably going to end up back where you were.

And there have been successes doing it the "DB" way. AliSuddenly and Kalni that I can think of right away. There's no one-size fits all for any situation, and some "vets" strongly seem to suggest that there is. I have no real doubt that in some cases the affair busting approach is the best. Equally, I have no doubt that in some cases it is absolutely not.

(By the way, despite appearances, I've been around a while. If you know me, you know who I am.)
Posted By: CityGirl Re: Do you feel bullied? Be honest! - 11/08/10 10:16 PM
I think it's all about finding a balance during a very chaotic time.

For the first year of my situation I had a horrid IC that just let me talk and cry away. I joined another web site that did lots of hand holding and followed the "bo peep" philosophy. All that did was help me fall apart more. And make no mistake about it, I fell apart something big.

I understand, as we all do, the amount of pain, shock and emotional chaos we feel when our spouses leave us. It is mind bending and nothing other than a death can even come close to the turmoil we feel. Eventually though somebody has to shake the crap out of you or else you will get more sick, more hurt and get in a hole that is NOT easy to get out of.

My "shaker" was called Annie. Her H had emotionally abused her just as my H was doing to me. And she was tough on me but without her initial stance with me I might still be rocking in the corner.

This is all so multi layered - the emotional trauma, the legal process, the financial burden. And some have it worse than others. For the people that have an easy legal divorce I envy you. But for those of us that don't we need a different kind of support. I would rather saw off my own head than have another legal battle like I had.

So you pick and choose who can provide you with the kind of support you need. I couldn't think for a long time because I was a mess. I needed somebody to get me started. We all do.

I certainly would not turn to somebody who has never been on the receiving end of infidelity for support as how could they possible know? Everybody needs something different.

So you have to wonder... is it being bullied or taking advantage of the time and effort people give to get you started in a new direction? No bullying going on here within the MEMBERS.

Nobody really stops to think that it is NOT easy to keep reading and reliving such pain all the time. And yes, it's a choice to do so but paying it forward is not optional IMO.
Posted By: Kalni Re: Do you feel bullied? Be honest! - 11/08/10 10:45 PM
People may say the right thing, but not in the right way or more importantly not at the right time. Right time for THEM, not the A, not the M. Unfortunately when it is the right time for them to listen, the time slot for their M may be missed. Veterans know that. And they are eager to help on time.Sometimes it feels like watching your kid ready to burn its fingers, wanting to stop it. IMHO, some times things went overboard, not with me personally, but I read posts that did sound a bit "intimitading". And I was wondering whether the issue was to help newcomers or to prove they were right. Someone mentioned ego. Maybe that was what I read.

Although I do have a thick skin and know how to filter things, there are some wounded people so vulnerable that take advice and use it hoping one size does fit all. And they will fail.

I havent felt bullied, ever here. I love robx's posts, steve's,coach's, puppy's and of many more veterans that I cant name now. But they do have different styles. And different styles fit different listeners.

BUT, in no way, anything that came to my attention was/is an excuse for what is happening with the mods lately.

And being around here for almost 3 years, I feel totally disrespected by the lack of communication between the forum's operators and us members. It is ridiculous.
Posted By: Kalni Re: Do you feel bullied? Be honest! - 11/08/10 10:46 PM
BTW, good to hear your news Gno!! Hugs
Posted By: LanceSijan Re: Do you feel bullied? Be honest! - 11/09/10 12:19 AM
Originally Posted By: Starsky309

Board Rules
This messageboard community is designed to support, encourage, and educate people about
Divorce Busting strategies and techniques to help them improve their relationships and save their marriages.


You may not always agree with our decisions to delete posts or to ban some members.
We reserve our right to do so when we feel necessary, with or without explanation.

We reserve the right to delete, edit, move or
close any post or thread for any reason at our sole discretion.


Well that explains it!
Posted By: lostandconfused6 Re: Do you feel bullied? Be honest! - 11/09/10 01:29 AM
No, i like your style. I think when we are going through something like this we are in our own "fog" and need someone to help us out of it!
Posted By: MrBond Re: Do you feel bullied? Be honest! - 11/09/10 01:31 AM
Gnosis,

You should post your story in Success Stories.
Posted By: Frank V Re: Do you feel bullied? Be honest! - 11/09/10 03:17 AM
I think some casual readers may view a 2 x 4 as bullying.

I have yet to read anyone looking for advice respond in any way that they appeared bullied, and most celebrated and welcomed in the input...

I know some posters are hard headed, I am among them... And I have seen some heated debates here on the effectiveness of a variety of approaches, but I don't recall reading any threads that were bullying actual visitors... just some heated debate amongst veterans and to my mind that's healthy...

Some websites even have a private forum dedicated to more heated disputes...
Posted By: robx Re: Do you feel bullied? Be honest! - 11/09/10 12:40 PM
Actually Lance it doesn't explain "it", see below:

Originally Posted By: LanceSijan
Originally Posted By: Starsky309

Board Rules
This messageboard community is designed to support, encourage, and educate people about
Divorce Busting strategies and techniques to help them improve their relationships and save their marriages.


You may not always agree with our decisions to delete posts or to ban some members.
We reserve our right to do so when we feel necessary, with or without explanation.

We reserve the right to delete, edit, move or
close any post or thread for any reason at our sole discretion.


Well that explains it!


Some of coach's posts were removed without any indication as to why they were removed. He is always clear, well spoken, rarely if ever heavy handed and very much respected on these forums along with his wife Greek (you commoners may refer to her as the "Queen"), and they are probably the only example of a married couple that both contribute extensively these forums.

The DB forums couldn't ask for a better example of a success story.
Posted By: LanceSijan Re: Do you feel bullied? Be honest! - 11/09/10 01:15 PM
Rob,

I believe we are writing the same thing.

The posts were removed without explanation.
As advertised in your red highlight.

They are under no obligation to us whatsoever.

They IMHO feel that they can treat their customers or potential customers in any mannner that they deem fit
and that those customers will continue to flock to them.

What do you think?
Posted By: Frank V Re: Do you feel bullied? Be honest! - 11/09/10 02:02 PM
The problem Lance is that if you start discussing the policies in any way other than positively you run the risk of your post getting deleted.

This is the catch - 22 that made free speech so important...

I am starting to hear The Sound of Silence running in my head so lets just leave it at that.

Either free speech is respected, or its not... And these policies certainly don't make an argument in favor of the importance of free speech...

this post won't likely last long either...
Posted By: Kimmie Lee Re: Do you feel bullied? Be honest! - 11/09/10 02:16 PM
The Sound of Silence is such a great one with beautiful lyrics:

"The sign said the words of the prophets are written on the subway walls, and tenement halls...."

And an apt analogy. I need to find a subway wall or a tenement hall....
Posted By: Kimmie Lee Re: Do you feel bullied? Be honest! - 11/09/10 02:18 PM
...."People writing songs that voices never shared.....AND NO ONE DARED.....

.....disturb the sounds.....of silence."
Posted By: Atossup Re: Do you feel bullied? Be honest! - 11/09/10 02:37 PM
No way, the advice given by the vets was spot on. As I did 10 yrs ago I was panicked when W #2 left. I was going to go back to old ways, begging pleading wishy washy. A couple weeks and plenty of 2x4's my self worth came back. I knew my W would wake up and see our relationship in a different way. I just had to back off and let it happen. And than when she did approach the door I dropped the D-bomb becuase she was having a short lived affair and I would not stand for it.
It was hard but the guys here gave me the courage and stregth to pull it off. Keep plugging away RobX!
Posted By: LanceSijan Re: Do you feel bullied? Be honest! - 11/09/10 02:44 PM
Frank

Agreed!

Of course everyone on this forum AGREED to these rules in order to post here.
So there is only one other way to express yourself.

By taking your above advice.
Posted By: Frank V Re: Do you feel bullied? Be honest! - 11/09/10 11:17 PM
Those rules change.. I don't have the originals...

And there is a lot of gray area in those rules...

Somehow I don't think coach believes he's violated any of them either...

The fact that a post or an entire thread can be deleted without explanation because a policy says it's ok, doesn't make the removal morally legitimate... It just makes it bureaucratically expedient.

Rules are no substitute for good manners and apt judgement... And the exodus that's taking place sends a pretty clear message to me that it may be missing here...
Posted By: Kimmie Lee Re: Do you feel bullied? Be honest! - 11/09/10 11:26 PM
Yeah.

It's a Coach22!
Posted By: MichelleLT Re: Do you feel bullied? Be honest! - 11/09/10 11:28 PM
I've seen some very heated debates. I've seen some blunt posters, and some debates that bordered on name calling, but between vets, not directed at the newcomers.

I definitely received a few 2X4s from desert_rat, kalni, NikB, PDT, etc etc etc. Well deserved and not bullying.

I never felt bullied as a newcomer, and I hope I don't make anyone else fee like I'm shoving my advice on them either.
Posted By: MichelleLT Re: Do you feel bullied? Be honest! - 11/09/10 11:29 PM
Kimmie - LMAO
Posted By: Frank V Re: Do you feel bullied? Be honest! - 11/10/10 04:05 PM
So much for the so called bullying that's taking place...

Methinks this was just an excuse for heavy-handed moderating...

Hold it.. Bullying.. Heavy-handed moderating...

Bullying... Heavy-handed moderating...

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm....

<play theme from Jeapoardy here...>
Posted By: Starsky309 Re: Do you feel bullied? Be honest! - 11/10/10 04:20 PM
Originally Posted By: Frank V
Those rules change.. I don't have the originals...

And there is a lot of gray area in those rules...

Somehow I don't think coach believes he's violated any of them either...

The fact that a post or an entire thread can be deleted without explanation because a policy says it's ok, doesn't make the removal morally legitimate... It just makes it bureaucratically expedient.

Rules are no substitute for good manners and apt judgement... And the exodus that's taking place sends a pretty clear message to me that it may be missing here...



whistle whistle whistle whistle


Starsky
Posted By: DumpedforMIL Re: Do you feel bullied? Be honest! - 11/10/10 05:31 PM
no offence starsky .. the four whistles is pdt's trademark. pls choose a different smiley. the four whistles is a reminder of the good ol' vet we lost.
Posted By: Serenity13 Re: Do you feel bullied? Be honest! - 11/10/10 05:36 PM
Originally Posted By: DumpedforMIL
no offence starsky .. the four whistles is pdt's trademark. pls choose a different smiley. the four whistles is a reminder of the good ol' vet we lost.


The reminder should be there so we all know what was truly lost.

(((Hugs)))
Posted By: Starsky309 Re: Do you feel bullied? Be honest! - 11/10/10 05:55 PM
Originally Posted By: DumpedforMIL
no offence starsky .. the four whistles is pdt's trademark. pls choose a different smiley. the four whistles is a reminder of the good ol' vet we lost.



I tried to find the "4 Gran Tourinos" emoticon, but they don't seem to have one. Sorry.

Starsky
Posted By: gr8 day 2B alive Re: Do you feel bullied? Be honest! - 11/10/10 06:05 PM
Maybe the rules should be drawn up with articles and when someone breaks a rule, the article could be named.

That way the offense is classified and known.
Posted By: LanceSijan Re: Do you feel bullied? Be honest! - 11/10/10 06:06 PM
Originally Posted By: Starsky309
Originally Posted By: DumpedforMIL
no offence starsky .. the four whistles is pdt's trademark. pls choose a different smiley. the four whistles is a reminder of the good ol' vet we lost.



I tried to find the "4 Gran Tourinos" emoticon, but they don't seem to have one. Sorry.

Starsky


smile smile smile smile

grin grin grin grin
Posted By: MichelleLT Re: Do you feel bullied? Be honest! - 11/10/10 06:09 PM
Either that or the bullied ones are too scared to post.

Somehow I don't see that being the case though.
Posted By: Jack_Three_Beans Re: Do you feel bullied? Be honest! - 11/10/10 06:15 PM
Or they left.
Posted By: ShockedOne Re: Do you feel bullied? Be honest! - 11/10/10 07:04 PM
IMO, its not typically so much that it's bullying. People don't like what they hear, even when most of the time it's what they need to hear, and some of the vets feel they are just repeating themselves or wanting to say I told you so.
Posted By: MichelleLT Re: Do you feel bullied? Be honest! - 11/10/10 08:25 PM
Very true.

I have seen some people disappear off the boards, but mostly it seemed to be the ones who bought into the idea that D is easier, that they would pick a better person the next time around. Maybe underneath they felt like their feelings/opinions/desires weren't being respected.
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