So, no baseball, no politics for another year or so, and Sandwich Day is over. We still can't edit our posts, and I'm bored at work...
It's been a week since I told W I was staying in the house; things have been brutally cold, W is a good db'er. I've tried to give her space while GAL and taking care of our Ds. It's been hard. She rarely talks, isn't wearing her rings, doesn't look at me except when she wants to glare at me. I'm smiling, keeping a PMA, and trying my best not to crowd her. After the girls go to bed, I either work out at the Y, watch a show, or get some writing done on my novel. Last night I went out for swing dance lessons, which were really fun though I'm horrible.
Yesterday W was upset because I had told D8 that I wanted to take them to an equestrian show on Sat. My W assumed that she wasn't invited; I had talked to D8 first, before I had a chance to talk to W. So she was upset all night about it. I didn't argue with her, just said that she was invited, it was a family event. She didn't say much that I could validate/agree with. When I came home from dance lessons, she was in bed, having fallen asleep reading a book. I put her book away, and could tell she was pretending to be asleep.
I said "Can I talk to you?" and she said "Leave me alone." I said "I just wanted to say, you're absolutely right. I should have talked to you about the equestrian show before talking to D9 about it." She just rolled over and went to sleep.
Later that night, D8 woke up with a nightmare. W got out of bed before I did, and when I went to see what was happening, she snapped at me when explaining the nightmare, and then just glared at me. When she came back to bed, I said "Don't be rude to me like that, I was just worried about D8."
This morning, she called me for the first time in a week on my cell. She apologized for being rude to me last night. Said that she's been very angry and hurt; all the hurt from the last decade has come right back. That she's raw, and seeing me singing and happy hurts her more.
I said "I'm sorry that you're hurting so much. What can I do to help?"
She said, "You won't do what I need you to do" (meaning move out).
Then she said "I thought I was protected enough to not have my heart broken again, but I was wrong." She was at work, and couldn't talk any longer.
Then she said "I thought I was protected enough to not have my heart broken again, but I was wrong."
you broke her heart by staying in your home?
She sounds bitter that you are moving on without her. And she is placing all the blame for her unhappiness on your actions, not her own choices. She needs to move past that in order to heal.
Then she said "I thought I was protected enough to not have my heart broken again, but I was wrong."
you broke her heart by staying in your home?
Apparently so. My refusal to move out has "shattered the little piece of hope" she had held for us.
This morning, she called me for the first time in a week on my cell. She apologized for being rude to me last night. Said that she's been very angry and hurt; all the hurt from the last decade has come right back. That she's raw, and seeing me singing and happy hurts her more.
I said "I'm sorry that you're hurting so much. What can I do to help?"
She said, "You won't do what I need you to do" (meaning move out).
Then she said "I thought I was protected enough to not have my heart broken again, but I was wrong." She was at work, and couldn't talk any longer.
Oh, please. That is such BS, Pin and you know it. She wants out so bad, why doesn't she leave? She is the one who's told you in the past that she can't love you/only stays w/ you for the kids and if she stays w/ you it will only be because of the kids...
It not BS. It is the Walk-Away Wife Syndrome.
I know. This is just her trying to pressure me into moving out. I was soooo close to caving in and starting an R talk last night, and I'm glad I didn't. And the "decade of hurt" was a nice touch from her.
I'm really sympathetic to her pain. I wish she was happy. The fact that she got so mad about me singing in the shower has me floored.
But if anything, this reinforces to me that it was the right decision to stay in my home. I wish I had never broached the idea of me leaving since it made me appear weak and indecisive, but that's the past.
Typical WAS stuff IS BS.
Pin,
I admit I have not read all of your sitch since I had been consumed with mine earlier on and I am now sort of detaching from this site some, but this is my .02.
I know you run as well as write, but what have you done differently GAL and 180's that you didn't do prior to you sitch? Does your W have her own career and have the opportunity to self actualize?
Your W has the responsbility of being a mother as well as a W, which puts a lot of pressure on her and IMO the spouse begins to loose herslef/himself. It also happens to men as well and so I think often times this is the beginning of a WAS in rebelling the "life closing in on me" feeling. Do you both have time to do an independent activity for personal growth? Pin I know you run and write what does your W do? Maybe your W needs to GAL?
The reason why I ask is because in reading your posts I see "family game night" "friday takeout night", etc and it seems rather structured and maybe it feels too confining to her. IDK, however I do know that we only get one side of the story with regard to these posts and I am a firm believer that both sides contribute to the good and bad of a M.
Hi HIH,
My wife has her own career in retail, but she's boxed herself into a spot where it's hard to advance. She goes to book club once a month, and she does scrapbooking as a hobby. But she doesn't do much other than that. She started exercising some, but isn't very disciplined with it.
Our family life isn't really that structured. W and the girls used to have Movie Night on Friday's, that I usually skipped. I've started joining them. It's not a going out movie night, just DVDs.
W likes to have family dinners, so that's a bit structured. We plan our meals for the week ahead of time to save $$ on groceries.
My biggest 180s have been listening better, exercising, being more involved with our Ds, writing my novel, and church. I've also been reading a lot of stuff I normally wouldn't approach.
Oh, and now dance lessons. Swing is fun.
Oh, and I'm wondering if the timing of her phone call is related to Saturday being the day I had originally planned on moving out. Might be a last ditch attempt to get me to move tomorrow...
Stay strong Pin.
I never will understand the WAW who thinks it it the duty of the man to move out in order for them to be happy.
It is so selfish and cake eating.
My ex once told me, "why don't you man up and move out"., then several months later said "it was my choice to move out"
I just could not take it for my own mental health, so she DB'd me better than I did her.
Dane, you're in NE as well? I'm in the capitol...
So dancing is fun so ask her out spontanously ... no planning just go out! I use to take my 1st W out to the local lake to watch the submarine races...they served great sandwiches there
If she was speaking to me, sure I might ask her out. But we would need a babysitter, so it couldn't be spontaneous...
And NO MENTION OF SANDWICHES IN MY THREAD!
There. Got that out of my system.
Okay Pin!
Then take your D's to the equestrian show on sat and leave your W and her emotional baggage home. Don't offer to take her let her groval on her own! Enjoy your life with your kids and stop walking on egg shells around her!
I've been having a good week, despite her frosty freeze treatment. She can come to the show, I don't want to keep her from our girls. But I won't grovel.
Pin, she has asked for space so give it to her! Do a 180 and quit being so chivalrous towards her and be more Clark Gable in Gone with the Wind. Although, you two remain under the same roof show her how it would feel with you gone. Be spontanous with your girls! I recently drove 100 m to go indoor parachute jumping with my two boys...I didn't plan it we just did it and that was half of the fun!
She's getting tons of space the last week, hence the reaction.
Okay Pin!
Then take your D's to the equestrian show on sat and leave your W and her emotional baggage home. Don't offer to take her let her groval on her own! Enjoy your life with your kids and stop walking on egg shells around her!
Wise advise.
Okay Pin!
Then take your D's to the equestrian show on sat and leave your W and her emotional baggage home. Don't offer to take her let her groval on her own! Enjoy your life with your kids and stop walking on egg shells around her!
Wise advise.
Yep. The eggshells start to feel like broken glass after a while.
Pin,
I am just up the road in gretna. You can find me in the alt, look for friends of Michele Davis.
And NO MENTION OF SANDWICHES IN MY THREAD!
There. Got that out of my system.
Hoagies
Grinders
Subs
Panini
Heros
Muffaletta
In many ways WAW behavior for some reason is like teenage behavior, not adult behavior. How do you get a teen to grow up while maintaining a great relationship with them?
Example:
"...I said, "Don't be rude to me like that,"..."
Apparently this is a pattern: she throws a tantrum, you say this because you feel reallyl hurt and then later she apolgizes. How can you respond differently to break this pattern without telling her what to do so that she now feels she has more "space"?
And NO MENTION OF SANDWICHES IN MY THREAD!
There. Got that out of my system.
Hoagies
Grinders
Subs
Panini
Heros
Muffaletta
Muffaletta is delicious. Especially after diving for it.
pookie are you saying that you are a Muff a letta diver?
pookie are you saying that you are a Muff a letta diver?
Temporarily retired.
pookie are you saying that you are a Muff a letta diver?
Temporarily retired.
But not by choice!!
pookie are you saying that you are a Muff a letta diver?
Serious progress on your sense of humor after you got over tha birthday card crisis.
This place rules!!!
pookie are you saying that you are a Muff a letta diver?
Temporarily retired.
But not by choice!!
By necessity. I'm at the strip club right now. A little diving for my last single friend who's getting married month from now.
Excellent sandwiches here by the way.
pookie are you saying that you are a Muff a letta diver?
Temporarily retired.
But not by choice!!
By necessity. I'm at the strip club right now. A little diving for my last single friend who's getting married month from now.
Excellent sandwiches here by the way.
I don't think I would eat THOSE sandwiches!!!!
I don't think I would eat THOSE sandwiches!!!!
Not to worry. They were real hamburgers. Not the fake ones you think of.
No spam...
Dude are you seriously at a strip club and taking the time to post on a marital support message board?
I'm konfuseed about that one myself!!!
Differences aside, Pookie became my hero with that.
Dude are you seriously at a strip club and taking the time to post on a marital support message board?
Yes and I am giving future marital support to my friend who is getting married next month.
It was a "lunch with a view" in a classy place. We had a nice conversation about all the future do's and dont's.
Everyone was home by 5pm.
More spew...
She's in "true mourning for our dead relationship" while dropping fbombs on me yesterday.
Trying to agree/validate and haven't argued with her at all for two days. She's not happy with that.
You celebrate while she mourns. Good she's not happy with no arument. Looks like progress. And what's with the connection to other men's wives?
FB2,
Not sure I get "what's the connection to other men's wives?"
Ignore her.
DO NOT MOVE OUT.
Do not ask her to go dancing or anything else.
Keep smiling.
I realize that your wife thinks she is being consistent, but she is not. She wanted you to move out until you decided that you would. Then she didn't want you to move out and argued that it was wasting money. Now that you've decided to stay, she wants you to move and says that you are torturing her with your presence. There are many things wrong with this.
First of all, it is rude. Whether by marriage or birth, you are family. One can't just kick people out of the family. But imagine that you aren't family, you are two people who agreed to share a house. What is the appropriate way to treat the other person who shares the house? Certainly she would not be saying this stuff to a roommate who was paying his share of the bills. She shouldn't say it to you, either. You have a legal right to live in that house, and rudeness is bad manners.
Secondly, it is she who keeps the relationship strained. You have offered to go to counseling and retrouvaille. Either, or both, would improve the way you relate to each other. But she steadfastly refuses to try to relate better.
Happiness is a state of mind. If you want to be happy, change your mind. She is a prisoner of her choices, not yours.
In other words.....she's just dicking you around to keep you off balance.
She's not "confused." God, I hate how that word is thrown around so much.
Most people are not "confused." They know exactly what they want. They only become "confused" when they aren't getting their own way.
Not sure I get "what's the connection to other men's wives?"
I don't either but it seems to be your slogan at the bottom of your postings. I maybe so dense I don't get it. Anyway listen to the women a little. I'm glad you stayed put. Some of the men here have DB'd their balls off.
FB2,
Not sure I get "what's the connection to other men's wives?"
They don't want to have a real relationship. They just want to get laid!
Not sure I get "what's the connection to other men's wives?"
I don't either but it seems to be your slogan at the bottom of your postings. I maybe so dense I don't get it. Anyway listen to the women a little. I'm glad you stayed put. Some of the men here have DB'd their balls off.
Ah, another LBS had written that his wife was just seeking a "mental connection" with some old flame. A wise forum member remarked with the "...genital connection" reply. I thought it was pretty funny as well as pertinent.
I realize that your wife thinks she is being consistent, but she is not. She wanted you to move out until you decided that you would. Then she didn't want you to move out and argued that it was wasting money. Now that you've decided to stay, she wants you to move and says that you are torturing her with your presence. There are many things wrong with this.
First of all, it is rude. Whether by marriage or birth, you are family. One can't just kick people out of the family. But imagine that you aren't family, you are two people who agreed to share a house. What is the appropriate way to treat the other person who shares the house? Certainly she would not be saying this stuff to a roommate who was paying his share of the bills. She shouldn't say it to you, either. You have a legal right to live in that house, and rudeness is bad manners.
Secondly, it is she who keeps the relationship strained. You have offered to go to counseling and retrouvaille. Either, or both, would improve the way you relate to each other. But she steadfastly refuses to try to relate better.
Happiness is a state of mind. If you want to be happy, change your mind. She is a prisoner of her choices, not yours.
Thanks, Lotus.
The other day she asked if she had a sign tattooed on her forehead saying "Hurt me" because all of her relationships had come to a similar point before. It took all of my DB training not to ask "what's the common element..."
The spew is just hard to deal with. For the first couple of months post-Bomb, things went pretty well between us, despite a lot of tension. This, this is just unrestrained hostility. Last night was a bit better, but not by much. Some CB I called her on, but just an unpleasantness that sucks.
She's unhappy, expects the men in her life to make her happy, and since I won't accomodate her by moving out, she's furious. At least by now I know what to expect from the script, but that doesn't make it much easier to tolerate.
In other words.....she's just dicking you around to keep you off balance.
She's not "confused." God, I hate how that word is thrown around so much.
Most people are not "confused." They know exactly what they want. They only become "confused" when they aren't getting their own way.
Not to mindread, but I've jerked her around a bit too. Changed my mind a few times as I tried to cling to the rope any way I could.
But your essential point is correct. Once they realize what they want, and you're in their way, you're almost an enemy...
[quoteIgnore her.
DO NOT MOVE OUT.
Do not ask her to go dancing or anything else.
] [/quote]
How's that working out for you?
I would boldly say what you are doing isn't working.
I will never understand why a man would stay with a woman who doesn't really want him there and then keep complaining about HER...
At some point Pin, this isn't about what or how she acts or treats you. After all NOBODY is forcing you to stay with her. At some point you need to come to the realization that this is now your OWN doing and you are getting exactly what you deserve.Complaining and venting and talking about it doesn't seem to be working and it is now as much your own fault for putting up with it as it is hers for dishing it out.
There is not one person forcing you ormaking you stay in a miserable situation. How sad.
I never said anyone was forcing me to stay here. I'm choosing to stay here, to stay in my home, to stay with my daughters for as much time as possible. My wife is free to leave any time she wants. I'm not holding her captive here. I'm not seeking sympathy from anyone, just trying to describe what's going on in case something is slipping past me since my perspective is biased.
I don't see that I am "getting exactly what you deserve." And I thought this forum was a place where people could vent their frustrations and hurt.
I'm not ignoring my wife. I talk to her as much as possible, without pursuing. I'm not bringing up R talks, and when she talks to me, I'm validating and listening as best as I can. I'm spending a lot of time with my daughters, trying to enjoy life instead of being bitter. I'm exercising, going to church, working hard at my jobs, living life.
Yes I wish my wife was happier; I have a lot of empathy for her situation, for how she feels. But it's not my job to make her happier; nor to manipulate her so she is happier.
And yes, I wish my wife still loved me; but that's not something I can create out of thin air. Her attraction to me has been lost over the years, and I can't cold-heartedly kick her out of our home, even if it was legally possible. She'll either find enough reasons to stay, (and hopefully enough happiness to make it livable) or she'll move out. She's free. No rope to drop on my end. I'm not holding on at all...
W was upset this morning when I was helping get our Ds ready for church. She said "I don't know what you want me to do." while they were in the shower. I asked her what she meant, and what she wanted me to do.
She said that she's been asking me to be more involved with the family, to stop spending so much time on the computer, to pay more attention to her. And that she felt like I was butting in on things/activities with our daughters. That I thought she was a bad mother.
I said I thought she was a great mother, and that if I had made her feel like I was jumping in too much, I was sorry.
Church was uneventful, and while waiting for Sunday School to finish, we didn't have much conversation.
Stop apologizing; they're your kids too.
DO NOT MOVE OUT.
Do not invite her to go dancing, or anything else like that. It is pursuing.
KL,
Don't worry, I'm not pursuing at all. I'm not moving out either.
Good morning Pinhead, just stopping by to send you my support. These last couple posts are fairly significant, don't you think? Just wanted to encourage you too, to not assume that your wife's feelings for you will never come back, even though they've been lost through the years. It just takes so much darn time Pinhead.
I know I've shared with you that I thought my love for my H was gone too. Don't know if I've shared though, how LONG it took and how hard the experience was. It was a full 10 months of me working really hard - monthly or twice-monthly visits to a therapists to talk it out, plus reading everything I could get my hands on and posting here regulary - before I started feeling 'in love' with my H again. It was really painful and I had to look deeply at myself and my background - it was exhausting, and still can be at times.
I think you're doing great Pinhead... just try to be patient... don't give up on her; I DO agree with the others not to just roll over and let her use you; but just want to encourage you to keep an open mind. It can take a long, long time.
She said that she's been asking me to be more involved with the family, to stop spending so much time on the computer, to pay more attention to her. And that she felt like I was butting in on things/activities with our daughters. That I thought she was a bad mother.
I said I thought she was a great mother, and that if I had made her feel like I was jumping in too much, I was sorry.
This is a great interaction, don't you think?... especially that she's wanting more attention. What do you think about that?
FMV,
The conversation where she wanted me to pay more attention to her was really just a litany of her complaints about my behaviour in the past. She was just feeling bad/inadequate as a mother; for example, our daughters just had their ears pierced, and the ears need to be cleaned 2x a day. W hurts the girls when she cleans their posts, so they prefer me to do it.
Good morning Pinhead, just stopping by to send you my support. These last couple posts are fairly significant, don't you think? Just wanted to encourage you too, to not assume that your wife's feelings for you will never come back, even though they've been lost through the years. It just takes so much darn time Pinhead.
I know I've shared with you that I thought my love for my H was gone too. Don't know if I've shared though, how LONG it took and how hard the experience was. It was a full 10 months of me working really hard - monthly or twice-monthly visits to a therapists to talk it out, plus reading everything I could get my hands on and posting here regulary - before I started feeling 'in love' with my H again. It was really painful and I had to look deeply at myself and my background - it was exhausting, and still can be at times.
I think you're doing great Pinhead... just try to be patient... don't give up on her; I DO agree with the others not to just roll over and let her use you; but just want to encourage you to keep an open mind. It can take a long, long time.
FMV, how do we know whether or not our W's are working on this? I am currently separated (only 2 months) and I see no movement at all towards reconciliation from her.
Just wondering how to proceed.
But it's not my job to make her happier; nor to manipulate her so she is happier.
Yes, it is. Genioglossus, Hyoglossus, Styloglossus, Palatoglossus. Endurance not strength is key.
SMQ,
For once I think I understand you.
Talk to her...
The conversation where she wanted me to pay more attention to her was really just a litany of her complaints about my behaviour in the past...
Ouch. I know it can be hard to hear all that... can you perhaps look though, at the fact that through all that spew she's asking you for more attention? I think she's trying to share with you what makes her happy. When I was first starting to share my needs with my H it went alot like that too. In my sitch it seemed like I had to get out what I didn't want before I could share what I did want. I'm sorry, it's rough I know, and far from being fair and easy to listen to. You can take the thought or leave it, just trying to point out a different interpretation on what she's saying.
FMV, how do we know whether or not our W's are working on this? I am currently separated (only 2 months) and I see no movement at all towards reconciliation from her. Just wondering how to proceed.
Hey Dan, I'm sorry, not really familiar with your sitch. How long were you guys struggling before you separated? Or had you realized that she was unhappy before the split? I can say this... two months is not a long time. I'd be more than happy to read your thread and offer support but I don't know how good my advice is...I never physically left my M so my viewpoint might not be quite on target for you...
The conversation where she wanted me to pay more attention to her was really just a litany of her complaints about my behaviour in the past...
Ouch. I know it can be hard to hear all that... can you perhaps look though, at the fact that through all that spew she's asking you for more attention? I think she's trying to share with you what makes her happy. When I was first starting to share my needs with my H it went alot like that too. In my sitch it seemed like I had to get out what I didn't want before I could share what I did want. I'm sorry, it's rough I know, and far from being fair and easy to listen to. You can take the thought or leave it, just trying to point out a different interpretation on what she's saying.
FMV,
All those complaints were things that I had been doing 180s with the last four months. And they were valid complaints.
All those complaints were things that I had been doing 180s with the last four months. And they were valid complaints.
I guess what I was trying to say Pinhead, was that you're hearing only part of what she's telling you. Completely understandable because criticism hurts. But don't confuse criticism with rejection.
She was also telling you what makes her happy... your attention.
And the last week, after I told her I was staying, I pretty much GAL'd my butt off. She was so angry at me, it was easy to find the motivation to go to the gym etc. And after a week of being left alone, of having her space, she's still mad. Last night when she called from work to say goodnight to the girls, she was a bit friendlier, but not a significant shift.
Endurance not strength is key.
Loved this. My point exactly, only much clearer than I can ever seem to say things.
And the last week, after I told her I was staying, I pretty much GAL'd my butt off. She was so angry at me, it was easy to find the motivation to go to the gym etc. And after a week of being left alone, of having her space, she's still mad. Last night when she called from work to say goodnight to the girls, she was a bit friendlier, but not a significant shift.
Ya she's going to be mad regardless of what you do. If you're around she'll want space if your gone she'll want time. Her script has to be justified. You'll just have to live your own happy life until her brain gets resided and she comes back to you.
Oops resided -> rewired
Not only can I not edit my post but I phone changes what I type if I don't pay close attention.
Endurance not strength is key.
Loved this. My point exactly, only much clearer than I can ever seem to say things.
So "Stay strong" => "Stay enduring".
Hey PH,
Just checking on you. How's old foggy head doing? I see she is still up and down. That may last awhile, I have experienced that with my 1st W and she never got over it till I remarried.
Hope your well
Thanks, Rondo.
She was warmer yesterday. Not warm, but warmer than the Arctic blast I had been receiving. Who knows how she'll be today.
Doesn't matter how she'll be today.
How are YOU today?
I'm good. Had a great morning with my daughters. When I'm in a good mood, they're in a good mood! And that circle keeps on going.
I'm just a little down. I miss my wife. I miss sharing my day with her, all the little things that got lost over the years. Realizing that this is the new "normal" for us.