Okay. I did my own thing yesterday. After I got back, she suddenly had to go out... she came back 2 hours later and didnt come in the house. She was sitting on the chair outside the door crying. I asked her what is wrong and she just looked at me and starting sobbing more. I told her I dont know what I can do, so I gave her a hug and told her things were going to work out. then she said she has known me over half her life.
She asked me if I wanted to go trick or treating with our son all together. So we did.
After we got back she showed me her cell phone and her star app on her droid... first time she showed me her phone. I said it was a cool app and moved on.
Got home and she touched my arm and said good night. Then she kept going in and out of her room and left the door open. She came out and asked me a question about logistics for tommorrow and asked me if I would come upstairs to hook up her DVD to her TV... I did then she said I could sit on her bed and we could talk.. not a whole lot talking. but she cried some more. and I held her and then I went downstairs.
this morning same routine a little softer but all business.
I am reporting this only to get out what I saw not as a course for any of my actions.. I am not flipping or flopping, I am just reporting last nights strange turn of events.
Just don't stop what you are doing b/c she is softening.
So....you served up the cake for her to eat.
My first thought was, "She's crying over OM."
Greek
Greek,
yea I wondered about that. Maybe he broke it off.
Dont know. I am still detaching and GAL.
I would tend to agree with Coach, but all mind reading.
Just don't stop what you are doing b/c she is softening.
And ask yourself this: what is "softening"? Because... often... it's just the begining of realizing there are going to be some losses... in terms of security, that you may not be there to be her buddy (which is why you don't want to promise to be her buddy), and so on.
If she's ready to re-commit to your marriage, she will tell you that. My W initially did things that seemed like that is what she wanted, but then... naw she didn't "feel" what she needed to feel, and that's what is important in the begining. She has to feel something (e.g. loving feelings & respect).
You don't want to be nasty about it, but while she is chasing somebody else, she can't stay in your home. Be firm.
Are you gonna make a new thread every time your wife acts flaky?
You're gonna be starting a lot of threads.
Honestly, one night of "softening" means nothing in the grand scheme of things.
One night of her crying is not a "turn of events".
You say you are "dropping the rope" but as soon as she acts somewhat nice towards you you run here to start a new thread and ask what to do.
Kon,
no not going to start a new thread everytime. This was a complete change from her. I said I was just writing it down. I am not asking what to do. I know what I have to do. As for "running here to start a thread", I am looking for support and I appreciate the comments made. No need to be pointed. I thought this was supposed to be a place to seek that support?
I haven't followed your sitch, but, basically everything that has been stated. She probably had a fight with OM, or something similar, and now she feels all her life is falling apart and no one is there for her. This may be the first of many nights similar to what you had. Let her cry to herself next time. Go to your room, if she wants to talk to you that badly, she can come to you. Don't go to her, you are feeding her the cake.
Shocked,
good advice. Thanks.
My first thought was, "She's crying over OM."
Greek
Yup!
Don't let her cake eat, do not be there for her. She knows she has you, just look at your actions.
She needs to move out, what boundaries have you established?
Greek,
yea I wondered about that. Maybe he broke it off.
Dont know. I am still detaching and GAL.
Consider the effect that OM dumping her would have on her,
you know Gucci has commented on this very thing several times, dump her, reject her, especially if she's been having an affair - remove yourself from the available options and watch your market value soar sky high.
She knows she can have you, but guess what she wants the OM, specifically because he dumped her, he let her go, not the other way around. Look at this way, She let you go, and you want her.
That's the effect of letting someone go.
Robx,
You are of course correct.
I wont go for the trap.
thanks for the comments.
Hey Pen, I didn't mean for my post to sound so cranky. Sorry if I offended... I hadn't had my coffee yet.
I guess my point was that you're going to start to see a lot of wacky behavior from her now once you actually start to move on with your life. Last night was prbly just a glimpse of the wishy washyness that is coming.
Don't put too much stock into any of it until you KNOW it's real.
Yeah... things are going to be weird no matter what course this follows in the end I think.
Just wait until you get an email saying something like, "I made a terrible mistake", and then you cooly respond with something like, "Yeah, I know", and what follows is a three page note about how she scared the other man away with her neediness.
There's an ego check. Might as well check your own ego now.
Kon, no worries. Truth in your words.
TH, YIKES!
So I had a Cardio appointment today to get some stuff dealt with from my military retirement and WAW texts me to go to lunch if I am done when her lunch break is.
I complete my DR appointment and text her sure why not.
We go to lunch. She asks about the appointment and offers to come to the next one (some testing) if I need her to. I tell her no thanks I am fine. It will be okay.
Then we make small talk simply about our son and his doctor appointments and then I tell her I am going to Jacksonville for a friends retirement from the Navy. She said "oh okay" and then we finish lunch. No talk about last night, no talk about future or R no anything.. Then we are done and as we walk out she says what are you going to do for the rest of the day? I said some stuff that I have been waiting to do at home. She said okay see you later and that was that.
Pen~
WAW texts me to go to lunch if I am done when her lunch break is.
I complete my DR appointment and text her sure why not.
Next time try this "Thank you, maybe next time, I have plans in place that can't be changed."
Stop being the anchor for her to cling to, as long as you are willing to be "second best" you will continue to be "second best."
(((Hugs)))
Why did you go to lunch with her?
She's having an affair and wants to divorce you.
Time,
I was in the area, she was polite and I figured it was a no harm no foul. We didnt discuss any R or M talk. it was light. I know she wants to divorce me and I am not trying to change her mind. I want her out of my house. That hasnt changed.
Guess it was a no no.
Serenity,
I will remember that. Thanks. You live and you learn. That is why I keep coming back.
Call it what you want to call it.
A woman who is chasing another man and doesn't want you calls you up for lunch, and you are just happy enough to get the invitation.
I think you are listening to your ego and won't admit it here
Am I right?
As for "running here to start a thread", I am looking for support and I appreciate the comments made. No need to be pointed. I thought this was supposed to be a place to seek that support?
It absolutely is, but I had the same, apparently, 'pointed' thought about the new-thread-a-day approach you seem to take. It's much easier to follow someone when they stay put until their thread is so long that it's time for them to lock the old and start a new one. I believe most of us follow "people" rather than "titles". Also, frankly, "WAW...wow" is not particularly descriptive, and "Drop the rope" vs. "Rope drop and day to day existence" are not startlingly different, either. People are here for you and interested in the developments; we just don't need a new thread so very often.
Time,
Yea you have a point. Ego is tough, and the funny part is I truly am a humble person.
Question, IF she is dumped by OM, and now is coming around, should I continue to keep the rope on the ground? My sense says YES, until she is willing to demonstrate she is committed to the M and so far I have not seen that. This is the walk... I dont want to flip flop and I dont want to miss a genuine opportunity to R is she is sincere. Knowing is the problem.
Question, IF she is dumped by OM, and now is coming around, should I continue to keep the rope on the ground? My sense says YES, until she is willing to demonstrate she is committed to the M and so far I have not seen that. This is the walk... I dont want to flip flop and I dont want to miss a genuine opportunity to R is she is sincere. Knowing is the problem.
Oh my goodness, YES! Yes - you don't do a thing (not even have lunch) until she says she wants the M. And even then, you don't do a thing until she demonstrated complete transparency. Otherwise, you'll probably be looking at OM2 just around the corner. If you are two easy to slip in and out of a relationship with, no reason to take her dog out of the hunt.
Next time she asks for a lunch date with you, pal, "I can't - have plans. Thanks, though." Not rude. Just not available. To her.
Greek
Mine has turned completely PB, so I ssay wait. In 8 weeks mine went from "I don't know" to "lets makes plans". I knew OM stuff would play out but not this quick. I'm sure it does not usually happen this fast but they were not together long, it was more of a drinking buddy and stuff thing. When she was done with him she cut him off quick.
As the guys here said, keep moving on. My WAW knew I was going out with the fellas and this weekend she actually faced the folks we know, so I know that was tough for her. The threat that I used worked in my sitch but we were apart and threatening to "cut her off' from me was what I think did it.
M-48
W-38
M-9 yrs
Bomb-labor day weekend
She left 9/9
Reconciliatin? TBD
Greek,
I knew that. It is nice to hear it from someone else. Thanks NO lunch, NO nothing. Dont be available to her.
Ato,
Thanks for your opinion. Greek hit it perfectly. Rope Stays on the Ground. I am indifferent about it and not all melty because she needed a hug because her OM probably dumped her.. she can face her consequences. They wont be with me.
on a good note, I am going to start getting paid again on my contract so I will be contributing MORE money so she cant use an excuse for not moving out.
Pen~
WAW texts me to go to lunch if I am done when her lunch break is.
I complete my DR appointment and text her sure why not.
Next time try this "Thank you, maybe next time, I have plans in place that can't be changed."
Stop being the anchor for her to cling to, as long as you are willing to be "second best" you will continue to be "second best."
(((Hugs)))
Beat me to it, 13.
Starsky
PB, you seem to be understanding now. You are too busy for lunch(or whatever else) unless it's for S9. She will eventually leave you alone or come out of the fog. Either way you need to reach the point of being fine for yourself. But as stated above, she needs to prove it to you.
I understand.. I went from hoping she would return and not being even in the picture to second best.. I would prefer to not be in the picture. Those are my two choiced. I choose not to share.
simple really. Now action.
And remember that this OM business is like an addiction. If he's dumped her - or even if she's dumped him - there will be withdrawl (sobbing, mood swings, spew, melancholy, despair) until the chemicals in her brain balance out again. You must be an immovable wall as far as your boundary is concerned. "W, I want our M, but I will not settle for anything less than what I said: full transparency, you 'all in' our M, counseling together so we can work on our weak areas." No emotion. No anger. No punishments. Just your boundary and her choices.
Greek
And remember that this OM business is like an addiction. If he's dumped her - or even if she's dumped him - there will be withdrawl
You know all the crazy stuff you did at first when you found out your wife might not want to be married to you?
She will do that kind of thing for OM. It ain't pretty.
And remember that this OM business is like an addiction. If he's dumped her - or even if she's dumped him - there will be withdrawl
You know all the crazy stuff you did at first when you found out your wife might not want to be married to you?
She will do that kind of thing for OM. It ain't pretty.
Right! And if one is PREPARED for it, and can see it for what it really is - sort of detach from the crazy display and not internalize any of what she says while going through it - much better off.
Greek
Stop asking her, "What's wrong?"
STOP COMFORTING HER!
CUT OFF THE MONEY!! NOW.
If she throws a hissy, TOUGH!! And DO NOT DEFEND, EXPLAIN, or otherwise try to REASON with her.
The last thing you want to be is her GOOD-FOR-NOW-GUY.
You are making it easier for her to continue her disgusting behavior, and in the process, you look weak and unattractive to her. Women find wimps pathetic.
So, for the love of God, stop. Just stop. Please.
I am not flipping or flopping,
flipping and flopping would mean you are doing two different things. you are still the same.
WAW came home yesterday and again sat there crying. Same chair outside on the porch. I walked outside put the rugs out ( I was sweeping the floor) and went back inside. I ignored her.
She made dinner and then came into my room where I was reading and sat on my bed. She started crying and then told me she does NOT want a divorce. She said she is scared but she wants to go to MC and work on the marriage... I was and am STUNNED.
She asked me to sleep with her last night. Not sexual, we just laid there. She told me she loved me, and she was sorry for hurting me and she didnt want to throw away 20 years. She had our rings and our wedding picture out. She got up this morning and told me again she Does not want a divorce and wants to repair the marriage and knows it will be a long process. She asked me not to give up and to not stop trying.
Now WTF!?:!
Thats the kinda stuff you need to hear to even start. So thats cool.
Now, she needs to SHOW you she meant the things she said.
What's your NC and transparency plan?
She wants to work on it? Good. You schedule MC, and in MC you bring up your transparency/NC plan.
Now you do nothing for 48 hrs. You have been letting your and her emotions drive you.
Now is the time to stop this cycle and start letting your rational thinking lead you.
Wait 48hrs to see if the crazy train comes back around. Again she probably got dumped from OM and is just feeling lonely. Do you really want to be the backup plan.
For now. I would not REACT to anything she has says. Just let her know you appreciate her talking to you and that YOU have a lot of THINKING to do.
PMA
Time,
I told her I have some things to discuss with her but we need to that at MC. We have an MC appointment next week that was supposed to be to figure out how to tell our son. She asked me if we can use that instead to discuss our marriage and working this out.
I also told her I will need openeness, and transparency to rebuild the trust. She said she understands. I made no other conditions. She asked that I simply be kind.
PMA, got it nothing for 48 hours. Yea it is a freaking crazy train. I will tell her I have a lot of thinking to do. Probably should sleep in my own bed tonight.
Dont want to regress and dont want to blow it. I alsso DONT and WONT be second string to the OM. no way.
thanks for the advice and comments folks. I am very appreciative.
Sounds good. Time for her to see the new you. The "I dont need you, but I want you in my life - you". The "Im not going to be disrespected - you".
You can do it!!
Congratulations and good luck man. I have very little advice beyond, try your best not to jump out of your skin. I know for me, right now, it would be very difficult to not try to jump back in it with two feet.
Good luck, Pensa. We could use some good news around her.
What's your NC and transparency plan?
She wants to work on it? Good. You schedule MC, and in MC you bring up your transparency/NC plan.
This. ^
Failure to do this ^ is what dooms 90% of all premature reconciliations.
What are YOUR short list of things you need to see/have happen, Pcola?
Starsky
honestly, I probably would have made her work for it a bit harder,
I think you're still too easy.
"I'm not sure how I feel anymore about you and your relationship, your affair made me rethink everything. I need some time to consider my options and find out what I really want now, not sure if this is it anymore...."
and then left it at that.
In her current state, I bet you she will pull the jekyll and hyde routine so don't be convinced of her initial actions right now, she may be testing to see if it's that easy to come back after all that she's done.
Playing hard to get isn't a bad thing, maybe let her worry for a little bit that you're done with this situation, make her work a bit to get you thinking that marriage is a good thing.
This is what I would do, and what I've seen work on these boards:
Wife: "I don't want a divorce; I want to work on our marriage!"
You: "Oh?"
Wife: "Yes."
You: "What changed?"
(let her explain her thinking)You: "That's very different from what you were saying and doing just a few days ago.
I'm not sure how I feel about that, or about this marriage anymore. What's different? What changed?"
(let her explain again)
Do NOT go all "melty man" at this crucial point (hat-tip to PDT here)
Then I would say "I need to think about all of this. I'm not sure how I feel about it anymore. Let's talk more this weekend, maybe on Sunday."
And then RE-DETACH.
Trust me . . . IF she is sincere . . . she will come to you, repeatedly. YOU WILL KNOW. Do NOT make this too easy on her. "This is your mess; you need to clean it up" should be your position.
I'm a quick study.
Starsky
Totally Agree!! Thanks P I mean S.
honestly, I probably would have made her work for it a bit harder,
I think you're still too easy.
"I'm not sure how I feel anymore about you and your relationship, your affair made me rethink everything. I need some time to consider my options and find out what I really want now, not sure if this is it anymore...."
and then left it at that.
In her current state, I bet you she will pull the jekyll and hyde routine so don't be convinced of her initial actions right now, she may be testing to see if it's that easy to come back after all that she's done.
Playing hard to get isn't a bad thing, maybe let her worry for a little bit that you're done with this situation, make her work a bit to get you thinking that marriage is a good thing.
meant to read as ".... and OUR relationship", not YOUR relationship, typo and editing has apparently been disabled on these forums.... what a surprise LOL!
Starsky,
I like that. I will tell her that when she brings it up tonight. I wont bring it up. When she does I will asked the pointed question "what changed?, Whats Different?"
Rob,
that is what I am preparing for just like Greek said. If I am prepared I wont be taken back by it. I still question the turnaround.. and I am proceeding with maximum caution.
Then I would say "I need to think about all of this. I'm not sure how I feel about it anymore. Let's talk more this weekend, maybe on Sunday."
And then RE-DETACH.
Oh, and part of my "re-detaching" would be to have my own plans on Friday and Saturday nights.
Starsky,
I like that. I will tell her that when she brings it up tonight. I wont bring it up. When she does I will asked the pointed question "what changed?, Whats Different?"
Rob,
that is what I am preparing for just like Greek said. If I am prepared I wont be taken back by it. I still question the turnaround.. and I am proceeding with maximum caution.
Attaboy.
and I am sleeping in my bed alone...
What's been the sleeping arrangements this week?
alone exxcept last night.. she asked me to sleep in her room, I did but it was simply hand holding nothing more. She asked me to stay when I got up to leave.
Be careful.
(and remember last time I said, "be careful").
alone exxcept last night.. she asked me to sleep in her room, I did but it was simply hand holding nothing more. She asked me to stay when I got up to leave.
Then yes, sleep in your own bed. If she tries to join you, politely say "If you don't mind, I'd prefer to sleep alone tonite. I don't want to send you the wrong message. Okay?" Not mean, not nasty, but neither apologetic. Just IS.
Starsky
I don't understand the "making it harder" part. I'm not saying it can't/work, because I just don't know. But it does seem like playing games to me, which is almost always destined to fail. Why not tell just tell them that if you're serious, here are my requirements. They either meet them or they don't.
I don't understand the "making it harder" part. I'm not saying it can't/work, because I just don't know. But it does seem like playing games to me,
Being careful isn't playing games. You know what is playing games? Having an affair, blaming your spouse for the affair, then when the affair falls apart, running to your spouse because you feel needy, but when they're too happy just to be there, you remember you don't really want them and are just saying that, so you dump them all over again.
Not being too easy is about not letting your ego drive everything, not being too happy just to be there (Yay! She now says she wants me. I win, I win, I win!), and taking the time to make sure this is all real because you know you don't deserve to be treated that way.
TH,
i know. youre thoughts?
I don't understand the "making it harder" part. I'm not saying it can't/work, because I just don't know. But it does seem like playing games to me, which is almost always destined to fail. Why not tell just tell them that if you're serious, here are my requirements. They either meet them or they don't.
Because the Good Things in life aren't easily attained -- they are worked for. And the effort expended in trying to attain them is directly proportional to our intentions, in my opinion.
I'm not advocating game-playing. I'm saying that Pcola should REALLY BE skeptical at this point, he REALLY SHOULD think "I'm not sure how I feel about this right now." Anyone who's been stabbed before (and my wife has never cheated on me, but people tell me it's like you've been stabbed in the chest) SHOULD be understandably skeptical when their once-attacker now stands before you, asking to dance.
Starsky
I think you need to proceed with a little healthy skepticism if you don't want to keep running in the same circles.
If she's sincere, she will prove it. If she's not, then nothing has changed except possibly the affair is going through a rough patch, or it has ended. Who knows. She is likely to be on her own roller coaster of sorts, so be careful, take your time, and be a little skeptical right now.
If this moves toward reconcillation, it's still a long road ahead for BOTH of you.
she was sleeping with the tkd instructor? i taught she just had a crush on him?
she was sleeping with the tkd instructor? i taught she just had a crush on him?
Then you have a different definition of "crush" than I do, Steve:
I have been married to my WAW for 20 years. She supported me through a 20 year military career and I recently retired. She was always my cheerleader and friend.
We decided that I would take a job that pays very well overseas for a few months to get some money to pay off some debt.
10 years ago, I was on a long (10 month) deployment. I notice my WAW was mentioning an OM often and I asked her how she felt about him, she said it was nothing.. but I did tell her if she was lonely, I would understand if there was a physical ONLY relationship.. but she had to be honest about the whole deal.. I truly thought if I let her do what she wanted she wouldnt leave me.. maybe not even see this guy.
up this point neither of us were unfaithful.
I returned and she gave me all the details and we had a tough time for a week or so, but I told her I understood. Then about a couple of months later and after we had our Son, she wanted to see the guy again. I consented on the grounds she tell me every detail. I would find myself less jealous and she was honest about each encounter.. the intimacy was there and I saw her sexually sparked. Our love making increased.
We moved away in 2003 and started enjoying raising our son. The spark kinda died out of our sex life. I started to bring up her times with the OM and while the thoughts of intimacy were there for me, she pulled away.
this was off an on for the last couple of years and I have asked her to discuss it with me but she refuses and refused.
fast forward to August 2010. I am on a deployment to another country in my new civilian job and WAW emails start to turn.. I ask why she is pulling away and notice a Tae KWondo partner is now a FB friend. I asked about him an she insists it is nothing. I notice her story about where she is and where she was dont match and she is more and more reluctant to Skype or email me.
She pulled away.
She told my Dad and her Sister (our 2 closest relatives) that sheis going to ask me for a divorce when I get home. She said she had too much respect to do it while I was gone.
She is a great mother and has been a great wife, friend and lover. I see that my actions of pulling her towards me and fighting with her while she has been confiding in a OM who build her up all the time led her to become more and more attached to this guy.
At first her answer for a divorce was "I am not happy" She said no one else was involved. I did all the things your not supposed to do.. I agreed with her desire to divorce, I begged and pleaded with her not to do this, I cried, I yelled, etc.. then I stopped. I told her simply I want to continue to be married.
She took her rings off. She is living upstairs and I am downstairs.
I noticed an video and picture file that should have been deleted had the OM with her socially and with his kids and our Son. OM is divorced same age. In Tae Kwondo with her 2 times a week.
She got a new phone plan all hers. I went to the old provider and got the phone and text records and discovered she and the OM were TXT phoning from 11 August to Labor Day.. then they stopped contact. (probably FB and Email though). I confronted the OM by calling the number and he lied he knew she was, so I asked her about him.. she said he is just a friend nothing sexual and he is not the reason we are divorcing.
I asked her to be honest with me and stop lying. I asked her to discuss it with me when she is ready but she needs to be open and he is a barrier to us getting back together.
I started phone coaching here at DB.. I have done my first session and sticking hard witha few setbacks to begin LRT. I am slowing the email, phone and text down. We have a 9 year old and that requires some communication to coordinate.
I sent her an email on Saturday, telling her I understand my actions in our marriage and how I have hurt her and made her feel unimportant by the events of the last 10 years.. but that I am going to accept my responsibility in what I have done and I am seeking counseling.
Se replied back that if I was serious about adressing the issues she would go with me.
I scheduled counseling with a solution based believes in marriage counselor for this afternoon. I told my WAW, I am going to counseling and she is invited to go with me if she would like. I told her that is her choice, but I am going for me. She said she would think about it.
and that my friends.. is my terrible situation.
M: 41
H: 39
S9
D-Day: 30 Sept
Married 20 Years.
I don't understand the "making it harder" part. I'm not saying it can't/work, because I just don't know. But it does seem like playing games to me, which is almost always destined to fail. Why not tell just tell them that if you're serious, here are my requirements. They either meet them or they don't.
Well here is another way of looking at it,
if you have a WAS and they are not making it easy on you, in fact they are playing very hard to get, impossible in some cases, does that make you quit or does that make you work even harder to try and get them back?
Read most of the situations on this forum and this seems to be reality in most cases.
So it's not so much a game but reality,
we tend to place higher value on things that are hard to get/acquire.
If you could step outside your house, reach into your flowerbed and scoop up hundreds of perfect 1 carat diamonds, and every one of your neighbors could also do the same thing, do you think diamonds would be that expensive to purchase? No, obviously not.
We attribute the concept of value to everything, some things have little to no value, and some things have very high value.
We pursue what we don't have,
we take for granted what we do have.
It's not playing games, it's just human nature - accept this as reality because it is what it is.
That's frigging brilliant, Rob!
That's frigging brilliant, Rob!
Thanks bro, I appreciate the feedback.
I find it incredible that this concept is so ... "alien" to a lot of people, is it really that difficult to grasp?
Steve,
I never confirmed a physical Affair. I do know there was an emotional affair. I have the phone records and text records to prove it.
Not sure if she was sleeping with him or not, but I have been lied to at every turn about him.
Time,
wise counsel.
I find it incredible that this concept is so ... "alien" to a lot of people, is it really that difficult to grasp?
Even harder for people to do.
"there is no try there is do or do not."
"train hard you must to be Jedi warrior."
I don't understand the "making it harder" part. I'm not saying it can't/work, because I just don't know. But it does seem like playing games to me, which is almost always destined to fail. Why not tell just tell them that if you're serious, here are my requirements. They either meet them or they don't.
Well here is another way of looking at it,
if you have a WAS and they are not making it easy on you, in fact they are playing very hard to get, impossible in some cases, does that make you quit or does that make you work even harder to try and get them back?
Read most of the situations on this forum and this seems to be reality in most cases.
So it's not so much a game but reality,
we tend to place higher value on things that are hard to get/acquire.
If you could step outside your house, reach into your flowerbed and scoop up hundreds of perfect 1 carat diamonds, and every one of your neighbors could also do the same thing, do you think diamonds would be that expensive to purchase? No, obviously not.
We attribute the concept of value to everything, some things have little to no value, and some things have very high value.
We pursue what we don't have,
we take for granted what we do have.
It's not playing games, it's just human nature - accept this as reality because it is what it is.
Okay, but does a two or three day stall really impart that much value in the LBS? If so, do you want your WAW back because she fell for a 2-3 day stall?
If it's not all about the stall, then someone should lay out to Pensa exactly what he needs to do, when and if he needs to go to MC, and how long he can expect this to take. It can't really be about playing hard to get a for a few days.
you're right, a few days won't cut it, I would say several weeks or even a few months
Couple of questions-
How do you know when your WAS is all in?
Are you ready for the process of reconciling? The tools needed are different than DBing.
If it's not all about the stall, then someone should lay out to Pensa exactly what he needs to do, when and if he needs to go to MC, and how long he can expect this to take. It can't really be about playing hard to get a for a few days.
PB to W: "Clearly you are going through a lot of transition. I am going through some changes, as well. We need some time and help to dig in all of this dirt and what got us here.
I will not begin to do any reconciling until I have a transparency and no contact agreement from you. No contact means no contact for any reason. There is not a reason I would accept. Transparency requires no locks on your phone and access to email. If you cross those boundaries, I will begin interviewing lawyers to file for divorce. Non negotiable.
I will work with your schedule so we can have time with MC on a regular basis while some of this dust settles.
I'm not comfortable with a physical relationship with you at this time. Your behavior up to now has been somewhat unattractive and that won't change until trust is rebuilt."
Then, PB ~~~ remember all of that GAL advice? It's still relevant! In fact, you already have plans to meet friends at a sports bar this Saturday to watch Alabama play LSU. Or whatever. But you are NOT walking around waiting for HER to enhance your life. You are doing that all by yourself. She can be a part, or not.
That's a start.
Greek
Actually, the tools are the same for reconciling...reconciling IS DBing. It's called Piecing.
Couple of questions-
How do you know when your WAS is all in?
Are you ready for the process of reconciling? The tools needed are different than DBing.
I have no idea. I live in world of logic and reason. Living with a WAS seems more like being on an acid trip.
As an aside, I just found out my wife of seventeen years has probably been on meds for a mental health condition (that I didn't know about) for much of our marriage and went off them nearly two years ago. Just when I think it can't get any more f'd up. . . (and she still hasn't told me.)
Then, PB ~~~ remember all of that GAL advice? It's still relevant! In fact, you already have plans to meet friends at a sports bar this Saturday to watch Alabama play LSU. Or whatever. But you are NOT walking around waiting for HER to enhance your life. You are doing that all by yourself. She can be a part, or not.
It's more than relevant in all probability. I bet it's key.
"Hello, welcome to the Mental Health Hotline.
If you are:
Obsessive-Compulsive, press 1, repeatedly.
Co-Dependent, please ask someone to press 2 for you.
...
Low Self Esteem, please hang up. All our representatives are busy.
Don't stand around trying to get her to press '2' for you.
Greek,
Got it GAL, GAL, GAL and keep on getting a life.
I like your comments about maintaining the detachment and telling her I am not comfortable with a physical realationship yet. I will say that this evening when I sleep in my own bed and she asks me to come up to her room or vice versa.
Coach, I am asking myself that also.. I see the value in GAL. I also know a transition must occur. SHE did come to me after all and in my room on my terms. With her choice...
I think that is important. It fits with my goals.
SHE did come to me after all and in my room on my terms. With her choice...
I think that is important. It fits with my goals.
I think it is important, too. But I would be concerned, if I were you, that it is of momentary importance to her, until she sees that the storm has passed with you. If she is not made to demonstrate her sincerity - long term sincerity - well, easy come~easy go. You might be dealing with OM2 before long.
Also, you need to be assured of the sincerity, to your core, for that trust to take root. Otherwise, you'll always wonder "Did she come back to me just b/c he dumped her?"
Greek
Greek I agree 110%. I will enforce my original boundry. Mc is going to help with that. I have received many texts from her today and she is leading with I miss you and I love you's
Greek I agree 110%. I will enforce my original boundry. Mc is going to help with that. I have received many texts from her today and she is leading with I miss you and I love you's
and how are you responding to these?
Greek I agree 110%. I will enforce my original boundry. Mc is going to help with that. I have received many texts from her today and she is leading with I miss you and I love you's
You are too busy to respond to those texts, PB. Texting is low hanging fruit for her. If she can get you at the text level, shoot - she's in there. You require much more than that. Let the texts make you feel good, b/c they should. She's coming around and thanks GOD! Just b/c she sets the table, though, doesn't mean you have to eat. Maybe you are not hungry now.
This is not just about her wanting to come back. It's about YOU getting your thoughts straight on WTF just happened to me?! So you keep the pace such that you can PROCESS this. Don't let her rush you b/c she NEEDS to know it will be OK for her.
When Coach and I put it back together, we both came with what we believed would constitute 'all in'. And it took months, literally, to work through all of that. We STILL work on these issues daily to keep it real, and real good!
Greek
When Coach and I put it back together, we both came with what we believed would constitute 'all in'. And it took months, literally, to work through all of that. We STILL work on these issues daily to keep it real, and real good!
So am I still DBing you are or am I using different skills?
When Coach and I put it back together, we both came with what we believed would constitute 'all in'. And it took months, literally, to work through all of that. We STILL work on these issues daily to keep it real, and real good!
So am I still DBing you are or am I using different skills?
I won't answer that until you tell me why you want to know.
Greek
When Coach and I put it back together, we both came with what we believed would constitute 'all in'. And it took months, literally, to work through all of that. We STILL work on these issues daily to keep it real, and real good!
So am I still DBing you are or am I using different skills?
I won't answer that until you tell me why you want to know.
Greek
C'mon Greek, it's the Socratic Method.
One other thing you don't see mentioned that often, if she has been sexually active with others, she needs a STD screen before you are going to be physical with her again. You need to look out for your own health.
C'mon Greek, it's the Socratic Method
Which, as we learned earlier today, is a euphemism for 'entrapment'.
We will now leave "Sophistry" and return to our normal programming.
Greek,
Got it. She told me last night she wants all in. I will remember that about the texts.
I didnt initiate any.
I did reply. Belatedly some where logistic about Son..
Most from where about M talk and her being glad we are going to work on it.
I detect sincerity but I am guarded as I said.
I will not answer any non Son texting.. I am REALLY trying to figure out where I am in the DB process now and what is next.. so I will keep the detaching going until I am certain she is in..
Coach,
good question about being all in.. She said she was, now I need to make certain. Words like you all have pointed out about me dont translate into action so easily...
this is a lesson in psychology, I wish I could skip.. it hurts too damn bad.
Maybe time to spring for a DB Coach if you can swing it?
I have on MP... I have 2 sessions left.. I am saving those arrows.. I will probably sked one for later this week..
WAW called, she is NOT going to TKD this is her usually big night and she told me is going to make Fajita's and wants a family night.. she wants to let the emotions relax and not go to TKD.. (whose emotions? her and the OM? maybe?)
BIG deal for her not to go to TKD.. does make me think something happened between both of them
WAW called, she is NOT going to TKD this is her usually big night and she told me is going to make Fajita's and wants a family night.. she wants to let the emotions relax and not go to TKD.. (whose emotions? her and the OM? maybe?)
So she's respecting your wishes which is good. Her actions are lining up with her words. You need to acknowledge it but don't go all "melty man."
I have on MP... I have 2 sessions left.. I am saving those arrows.. I will probably sked one for later this week..
Good. It sounds like you are at a critical juncture here. A DB Coach might say that you are going into the healing phase. Not a good time to be melty man, but not a good time to rub salt in the wounds, either.
BIG deal for her not to go to TKD.. does make me think something happened between both of them
the unspoken tenet of tkd. triangles are messy.
WAW asked me to pull the truck from the sale lot. She said it is not for sale.
She came home we had a nice dinner. I asked why she isnt going to TKD? She said she wanted to spend time with her family. I didnt pres it. I told her I aprpeciated a family dinner.
After dinner took a shower and then she asked me to take a shower so we could cuddle. Yea I know alarm bells but I did and we did... I told her that it was too soon and she agreed, and we did talk alot about the R and the M. We also discussed a lot about communication and setting boundries.
She told me she would NOT be talking to any men, divorced or married and she wanted me to trust her again. I noticed our wedding picture and all of our rings on her dresser, and she said she has been thinking about all of this for weeks, but didnt want to let me know.
She said she went out on Saturday and Sunday to look at houses and she saw them empty and not homes, and she said that is when she realized that the M deserved a chance to be saved.
So there it is, and she came willingly, on her own, and appears to be respecting my boundry of NC with EA OM.
So should I look at Piecing now?
She asked me to take our rings to be cleaned and asked if I could take her engagement diamonds to be inspected. I said I would.
She also wants to go on a dinner date / Beach walk on Friday.
I am cautiouus still.. and I told her I would be outta here iif I find out that there is any thing still going on, she told me that she told the EA OM in September that she needed to figure out what she was going to do and deal with it. I dont think I have gotten the whole story, but that is what MC can help with.
So should I look at Piecing now?
Seriously!?! Didnt we suggest waiting for any heavy talk for at least 48 hrs. You didnt even make 10. Others suggested weeks. All you are doing is teaching her how easily she can manipulate and flip you.
Please go back and reread the suggested responses and DO THEM.
PMA
PMA,
Will I set everything back keeping the rope on the ground? When do you go from LRT to Piecing? You have to start validating somewhere right?
Doing what works is the theme.. when it works there is the next step.. if I keep the rope on the ground when can I ever expect to repair the M?
damn this sucks
So should I look at Piecing now?
You should be careful.
She says she's all in. She is acting like it. Let her prove it to you. Patience grasshopper.
Use some self-control here. I know this is what you hoped for, but proceed slowly and with some reasonable caution.
The difference between men and boys: boys are just happy to be there. Confident men know they deserve a good relationship and don't settle for less.
Will I set everything back keeping the rope on the ground? When do you go from LRT to Piecing?
Based on what I've read, you've never really did the former, and you don't want to rush into the latter.
Fools rush in where angels fear to tread.
Pen - I understand how difficult this is, but like other board members have suggested you need to build a new, stronger foundation NOW. You do that by not making it easy for her. Make her realize she has to gain your respect again. Nothing wrong with showing strength by letting her know that this hasnt been easy for you and you have a lot of thinking to do. You do value marriage, but you want to make sure you are with someone that does as well.
She needs to earn it!!
PMA
And she actually blew off her TKD.. that is a huge step and shows to me she IS in... it took a long time to get that action and it is a monitor , wait and watch on my goal. It happened. My goals that I have set in DR are coming to action and that is a good thing...
I am scared shitless of the next step and missing a sign that destroys all of the progress.. I am out of arrows so to speak.
PMA,
I Understand! Yes you are right.
Coach and Time, I am proceeding with caution. I know she needs to show the sincerity.
in my heart I know the only way for that to happen is for her to want to do it on her own and I need to continue with what was working and do my own thing.
am scared shitless of the next step and missing a sign that destroys all of the progress
Why? You didn't have an affair? The burden for building a better marriage isn't completely yours alone. That's the point of proceeding with caution.
If you let your ego drive you all of the time, then you care more about how you really feel than how she really feels.
Give it some time. Let her show you how she really feels. She can't do that in a day or a week.
PS. For what it's worth... you haven't done badly, and more importantly... things appear to be headed in the right direction.
What we all want for you two is a lasting reconcilliation, and that means both of you need to grow a bit from this experience, and you both need to respect one another, but respect is something you both need to earn.
What have we learned: it's NOT OK for men and women to form close emotional bonds with members of the opposite sex other then their spouse. It can permanently alter their lives and destroy their marriage.
Your wife is saying she understands that lesson, and if that is true that's great. That's something you can build on.
Now... what about you? What have you learned from this?
I am proceeding with caution.
Your words -- and more importantly your ACTIONS -- say otherwise, Pcola. While reasonable people can disagree about to what extent you should "make this not easy for them," etc., there is NOTHING that I would characterize as "cautious" about how you immediately responded to your wife the past 48 hours.
As for skipping her TKD class and going no-contact (for now) with OM, I'm afraid I don't award brownie points for simply doing what she SHOULD be doing, to begin with.
You're making this WAY too fast; WAY too easy.
Starsky
Hey PB!
Don't look at pieceing yet. Its great to see what is happening but don't rush to piecing too fast. Take it slow and let things build. I gave my W back her engagement ring(yes I took it before she moved) and told her that when she is ready to wear it she will.
She thanked me for not rushing her. Let your W make the moves and suggestions now. Take her lead, see if she is serious. Don't open your heart too fast. Actually you can't. Things will bother you from time to time about OM. Try to shake them and is she gonna go to Co? That may help..
So should I look at Piecing now?
You should be careful.
She says she's all in. She is acting like it. Let her prove it to you. Patience grasshopper.
Use some self-control here. I know this is what you hoped for, but proceed slowly and with some reasonable caution.
The difference between men and boys: boys are just happy to be there. Confident men know they deserve a good relationship and don't settle for less.
Just saw this. ^^ TH said it much better than I did, as usual.
Starsky
What have we learned: it's NOT OK for men and women to form close emotional bonds with members of the opposite sex other then their spouse. It can permanently alter their lives and destroy their marriage.
I wish my W could learn this lesson...
Ato, yes she is going to counseling . Thanks for your input. I have been following you for the whole time as hope.
TH,
Yes. I am listening to you.
What have I learned? I learned that I lead by emotion and that is dangerous. I learned that I often didnt respect my wife and destroyed her self esteem. I am not owning her EA, that is hers to deal with and we will, but my CB led her to turn me off and tune in to another.
I learned I need to figure out to communicate. I need to really really work on that with her.
I learned that I should have enforced the boundry of no communication with members of the Opposite sex YEARS ago and should never have encouraged her PA 10 years ago.
I also learned I WONT share my wife with anyone.
and I learned this is more painful than anything I have ever faced.
I also learned I WONT share my wife with anyone.
Good. Happy to read this.
It is painful PB.
My W is talking and talking and talking. Where as before I would shut her out after awhile because every thought that pops in her head seems to want to come out, I have been activly listening. she did say something last night that I did not respond to(old me) and she started to repeat and I turned to her and said "I'm sorry, I heard you I was just processing it" . I got a huge smile and than I repeated it to her. After alot of time really not "listening" you need to listen and process. I should have learned this after my 1st marriage!! LOL
If you get some time to watch old movies, maybe try to find "Philadelphia Story" starring Cary Grant and Katherine Hepburn?
What have I learned? I learned that I lead by emotion and that is dangerous. I learned that I often didnt respect my wife and destroyed her self esteem. I am not owning her EA, that is hers to deal with and we will, but my CB led her to turn me off and tune in to another.
I learned I need to figure out to communicate. I need to really really work on that with her.
I learned that I should have enforced the boundry of no communication with members of the Opposite sex YEARS ago and should never have encouraged her PA 10 years ago.
I also learned I WONT share my wife with anyone.
and I learned this is more painful than anything I have ever faced.
Sorry, Pcola, but I couldn't resist:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFCYN_dvmpU
lol
funny guy. great movie anyways. Touche`
If you get some time to watch old movies, maybe try to find "Philadelphia Story" starring Cary Grant and Katherine Hepburn?
C. K. Dexter Haven: Not interested in yourself, Red, you're fascinated. You're far and away your favorite person in the world.
Tracy Lord: Only for the moment, I'm not interested in myself.
C. K. Dexter Haven: Not interested in yourself, Red, you're fascinated. You're far and away your favorite person in the world.
The thing I like about that movie is the way Grant plays the role. Even when he's standing up to his ex-wife, he's having fun with it
The thing I like about that movie is the way Grant plays the role. Even when he's standing up to his ex-wife, he's having fun with it
Indeed.
Tracy Lord: You seem quite contemptuous of me all of the sudden.
C. K. Dexter Haven: No Red, not of you, never of you.
And she actually blew off her TKD.. that is a huge step and shows to me she IS in... it took a long time to get that action and it is a monitor
You would be wiser to view this as she is embrassed to show her face and needs to let this all blow over so she can walk back in with confidence and an attitude of "if you did not want me so what I still have my husband. you're loss."
People who do the dumping dont carrying on crying. They usually go out and grudge ****. Not seeking comfort and consolation.
They have a cockiness about them that they are better than thou. She held this attitude over you for awhile. You can be certain she didnt act one way before you then go to him crying.
Your "monitor" will be how these two interact in the near future. What you should have learned is you wife is a very good liar. Their eye contact, body language, the one that acts like nothing happened, will be your indicator of why the sudden interest in reconcillation.
Steve,
very good point. I wonder if she will find more reasons not to go to TKD.. if so what does that mean? She is going to go back to TKD and someday down the road they will get involved again? Perhaps she wont go back at all..(that would be best)
In the meantime, she tells me she is committed to making this work.
I need to see and feel the sincerity. I know that. I also agree with the way you describe how she acted towards me. That reminds me to remain cautious and watch for true sincerity. I am not seeing that 100 percent..
No contact means No contact!! There are plenty of other dojo's to go to.
Put your foot down man!! Women love a man who demands respect.
PERHAPS she won't go back at all???? PB ~ when you tell her no contact with this predator to your marriage and family, you better mean it. That means she can find another place to do whatever TKD is. Or find another hobby. Or something, but going back there would mean contact and that crosses your boundary.
He told her to cool it b/c dating a married woman with children is frankly just a lot of baggage. Is he married, by the way? And going back there would be humiliating and most uncomfortable for her. Maybe he's asked her not to come back - that's a possibility. At any rate, IF she does have contact after NC is agreed upon, you know what to do. And don't let her think there is an inch of wiggle room. Otherwise, she'll be wiggling right out of it. We've seen it here before.
Greek
he may not have been the predator but rather the prey
Greek et al,
I never said TKD was a boundry. the NC is.. how she accomplishes that is for her to figure out.... she has stated that TKD is non negotiable, she will go and continue her climb to 3-4 level black belt. The day she agreed to my drop him from FB requirement (after 3 weeks) she was at TKD and that was when I walked in and called her on her CB.. she went again Thursday but that was the last time. There is no other TKD studio in our area (within 30 miles) so that is not a possibility.
Your answer is, no he is not married he is divorced with 2 kids. I have called him a wolf at the door to our marriage also. It is possible he told her no, and blew her off.. and that could explain much.. and Steve she may have been the predator.. she gave him her phone number.. he called first.. I have the records to show that...
I am unsure now that she says she is committed to the Marriage to bring up TKD.. If I say no TKD with him there and he wont stop going and she wants to.. it will seem like I am controlling her.. how do I get around that?
You are controlling her at all: she gets to choose. You or contact with him.
She just can't have it both ways.
Then she makes the 30 mile drive. It's her call in the end.
Marriage is work. Marriage after a breach of trust is hard work. If she chooses TKD over the M, then you know how much she values the M.
Greek et al,
I never said TKD was a boundry. the NC is.. how she accomplishes that is for her to figure out.... she has stated that TKD is non negotiable, she will go and continue her climb to 3-4 level black belt. The day she agreed to my drop him from FB requirement (after 3 weeks) she was at TKD and that was when I walked in and called her on her CB.. she went again Thursday but that was the last time. There is no other TKD studio in our area (within 30 miles) so that is not a possibility.
Your answer is, no he is not married he is divorced with 2 kids. I have called him a wolf at the door to our marriage also. It is possible he told her no, and blew her off.. and that could explain much.. and Steve she may have been the predator.. she gave him her phone number.. he called first.. I have the records to show that...
I am unsure now that she says she is committed to the Marriage to bring up TKD.. If I say no TKD with him there and he wont stop going and she wants to.. it will seem like I am controlling her.. how do I get around that?
And you completely support her in her TDK aspirations. But not with him. Gee, I guess we'll find out if she's all in or not. It's you or the OM. It's you or TKD. Same diff.
And that's not controlling. You are not telling her she can't TKD. You are telling her that if she does it with him, you are out. She can choose. Again - all in or not?
Greek
that one was as fast and accurate as Bruce Lee's 1 " punch.
Eeeeooooooowwwww!!!!
Tough crowd.
And fwiw, I completely agree with them.
Starsky
Tough crowd.
And fwiw, I completely agree with them.
Starsky
You agreeable fuzzy guy aren't you. Agreeing your way to post #19,000.
Greek,
I will put in those terms.. I will talk to her about it tonight and tell her I appreciate her sincerity and committment to our marriage. I will tell her I completely support her TKD but not with him and directly ask her what her intentions are. if she says she is going to attend TKD with him there, I will tell her that I will not accept that.
Didn't you already tell her NC?
I'm just wondering why you need to tell her again?
Afraid she might choose him?
I can see discussing it if she brings it up, but.... Am I missing something?
PB ~
One of our sticking points was me taking a PhD in residence away from Coach and the fam. He was dead set against it and we FOUGHT big time over this. Part of coming home and reconciling was for me to recognize what that would do to our M, and for him to articulate his concerns about it in terms that were not controlling. In other words, he went from "If you go, our M won't survive it. You're just leaving us! I'm against it." to "I fully support you returning to school for your doctorate. How can I support you as you find a way to do this within the M?"
See?
Greek
I did tell her NC outside the TKD studio.. I left the TKD studio contact soft for now until I had some help from the MC.. she was pretty adamant a few days ago about continuing TKD.
I realize that if she attends the TKD there he may be there.. no way around it when they are both black belts and train on the same class... I was hoping the weight of it would collapse on its own.
I think I need to just lay it down and tell her I want ZERO contact period.
Greek,
good approach, and that is how I will approach it. She has a class tomorrow.. I should address this tonight.
TH, you didnt miss anything, she chose NOT to go last night and that was a big step for her to intiate R / M talk and I told her I appreciated it. Now I need to enforce the NC boundary.
I like the fully support the TKD how can I help help support her with this inside the marriage?"
Just spoke to WAW. She said OK. I can go on nights he doesnt go and if I do see him I will tell you.
not quite NC...
Just spoke to WAW. She said OK. I can go on nights he doesnt go and if I do see him I will tell you.
How is she going to see him if she's abiding by no contact?
What did you say about this?
Is that the only TKD studio where you live?
That is not a NC plan. You do not put yourself intentionally in a place that OM is known to possibly be at.
I like to play "flip this script" to imagine how it plays out.
Let's see, I have some kind of affair with a woman at a martial arts studio.
My wife says she is done, wants me out, she's not putting up with it anymore.
I say (for some unstated reason), it's over between me and her, and I will not see her anymore, but...
I am going to same martial arts studio when she is not there, but if she is there I will tell you.
My wife says...?
Does it matter what she says, before or after she kicks your pocket mouse?
Tell her that you need her to find a different TKD studio or you are not R and really stick to it and mean it. Be prepared for her to say no, but think of it this way- you know that she is somewhat interested in R so if she says "no" it is probably not the last that you will hear from her. If she continues to go to that TKD place, I can almost garruntee that she will not fully break if off with him. My husband told me the same thing when he was willing to work on the marriage. He would just avoid seeing the OW at their mutual work place. Supposedly this would be pretty easy for him to do. But this plans lasted one week. As soon as they got back around each other, his motivation to work on the marriage fell apart.
Tell her that you need her to find a different TKD studio or you are not R and really stick to it and mean it. Be prepared for her to say no, but think of it this way- you know that she is somewhat interested in R so if she says "no" it is probably not the last that you will hear from her. If she continues to go to that TKD place, I can almost garruntee that she will not fully break if off with him. My husband told me the same thing when he was willing to work on the marriage. He would just avoid seeing the OW at their mutual work place. Supposedly this would be pretty easy for him to do. But this plans lasted one week. As soon as they got back around each other, his motivation to work on the marriage fell apart.
I've just read about this. Like any addiction (and make no mistake, affairs are HIGHLY addictive), it's physiological. Every contact -- even casual contact, and even NEGATIVE contact (say, a spat), floods the brain with all kinds of endorphines, and sets back your reconciliation efforts.
They keep making the same mistakes.
We had a discussion. I told her NO CONTACT means NO CONTACT. She said so "this is a deal breaker for you..?" I said um YES!!! Told her there can be no maybe... has to be her boundry and I cannot accept part time contact period, not even in a controlled area, situation.. I told her it is unacceptable.
I was calm, I was tactful, I was firm.
She said so what do you propose? I said that is her decision but it really boils down to what is more important? I told her the Marriage should be the most important thing in the world.
She said what if I go on nights he is not there?
I asked how will you know?
I told her she should call him and tell him she is a married woman and wont be in ANY CONTACT with him and they need to change class nights to ENSURE they are not at the studio at the same time. Period... She said she would do that.
I told her bluntly, it is him or me and I am not sharing.
She made our son dinner and then pouted all night.. at the end of the evening I told her I am going to bed. she said okay and she was stunned when I went to my room... she asked "are you going to sleep with me?" I said no, I am tired and I have some things to think about and I really want to read my book"
she asked me 30 minutes later to come read my book with her and then come back down to bed if I wanted.. I agreed. She hugged me and said she missed me.
She fell asleep on the bed, I got up and as I was leaving she asked are you really going down stairs? I said I was and she said I can sleep here... I said thanks and then went down stairs.
Her move...
Yeah, this situation sucks. I really wish you would see your family therapist before you make more suggestions about how exactly to implement NC though.
Here's my thinking. So TKD is important to her. Fine. Is her marriage important to her? So what was she thinking when she initiated an affair at her TKD classes?
We make choices in life. Our choices have consequences.
There's an old platitude about romances in the workplace that could be updated for this situation:
Don't crap where you eat.
In this case it's "Don't crap where you play if playing there is so gosh darned important to you".
As Starsky has pointed out to you, any contact at all (even negative contact) is likely to set you back to square 1 where she just has no loving feelings for you.
So... that's the risk to you, your family and your marriage. How long can you and your family endure being on this rollercoaster before you finally snap, and you become the one who is leaving and who has no interest whatsoever in rekindling things.
That might sound crazy to you right now, but we have seen that happen over and over and over, so it's not as crazy as it might sound.
Pen,
You are getting some positive signs from your wife at home.
NO TKD at all anywhere even in nearby towns?
Pen, I live in ALASKA, I got three just off of google.
It's not like say: Jeet Kune Do style.
Assuming your name might be near to where you live...
google says: 10.
Work with her to finding a new spot.
If she is willing to work with you that is also another good sign.
How about a private TKD tutor?
She should respect your feeling/thoughts period. Especially when trust is an issue.
You are handling this well. Stick to your guns. Explain to her why this is a problem and even the science behind hormones etc.
Explain to her how it's important that you both define what your "NUTS" are. Your w having an EA/PA is definitely top of the NUT list.
TKD studio are in every strip mall. If she has been with that dojo/school for a long time then she can go to another satelite school or work w another of it's instructors.
Another idea. Was this Jackoff the head instructor? Then traditionally you should be able to train in another form. Then challenge him to a fight to the death then take over his dojo. Works great in Bruce Lee movies.
If nothing else, talk to the instructor about private lessons. Might cost more, but definitely cheaper than the alternative. D.
Doesn't work that way folks.
issue arose because he did not share it with her. something that she enjoyed immensely that he never came to support.
much like the reason why you see some guy and some girl you work with taking their lunch hour together or meeting at Moe's for a beer to talk about work after work. they feel alone and want to share their experiences.
didnt even go to her black belt promotion. interesting, would you blow off your kids HS graduation?
can you bend over and touch your toes?
Oh HE F-ed up big time. No question there.
Pen needs to fix some internal shite, but if she is wanting to work on being married then finding a new TKD studio is a great sign from her, unrealsitic and controling for Pen to take TDK away from her completely though, hence a new studio, even if its 10 more minutes away.
Steve,
There are ways he can support her with her TKD that don't involve her having regular contact with OM. And yes, he needs to be "solution-oriented" in this, as Coach has already outlined for him.
Just because you haven't supported a sculptor in the past, doesn't mean you allow them unfettered access to the scalpels once they become a cutter.
Starsky
Okay one at a time bottom up,
Starsky, I am totally solution oriented. Ensured the MC is on the same page also. Interesting Analogy.
Jack 3,
our area of town is small. TKD has several disciplines. The one my WAW is studying has two studios within 40 miles. This is the ONLY one in the Gdamn area with out going to Alabama or Tallahassee...
Also I never had any intention to deny her TKD. She likes it, and our attends also.
Steve,
I was NOT invited to the promotion. This was 2 weeks after she dropped the bomb on me. I wanted to go she said no. There it was... It was not out of malice. I never said I didnt support TKD.. this was her thing and my sons.. like little league coaching and baseball for my son..
I am making progress here, she has texted me all morning about wanting to make it work and she states she will do anything to make the M work.
Folks I am not an a&@, I encouraged my wife to be the best she can be, always have. I just dont want her involved with her TKD instructor.. not too damn much to ask.
MC can address lot of the issues and I have a lot of heavy lifting to do also.. I got that.
PMA, that is funny!
Pensa
I understand your desire to allow her access to this interest of hers, but this promotes her interests to a level of almost equal if not greater importance than your marriage. It's that kind of attitude that caused most of us to end up here. We subordinate our Marriages to the needs of our children, to the demands of our jobs, and to all kinds of outside pressures. While it is important that we not let our marriages consume us to the detriment of all else, lest we become one dimensional caricatures of ourselves, our children, our jobs, and everything else suffers when our marriages collapse anyway.
Your marriage is what's at risk here and it must come first right now. TKD at this school is a direct threat to your marriage and neither one of you should give a rats ass about it right now while you are trying to repair your marriage. Put this into its proper perspective, but let your MC do the heavy lifting here. You don't need to keep hammering this home to her. Get your MC to help.
This guy has a new dojo down there. He's good too.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hh10UVpfpy0Cheers
Progress, I concur.
She knows how I feel. I have put it out there. She has a class tonight. Will be interesting if she goes. She says he does NOT go on Thursdays. I could drive on over and check it out if she goes.
Regan said it best regarding trust when your not sure you should.
"Trust but verify"
Lol!! I love that movie!!
Is it normal after all this damn up and down and emotional football, to have a moment or even a day when you are just to damn drained to give a crap?
Is it normal after all this damn up and down and emotional football, to have a moment or even a day when you are just to damn drained to give a crap?
Yes.
Pen~
Is it normal after all this damn up and down and emotional football, to have a moment or even a day when you are just to damn drained to give a crap?
It is normal to feel emotionally up and down within the confines of what you can control. You can't control the situation and are allowing it to get the best of you.
Perhaps you need a break away from all the drama, a chance to let your mind rest. Go for a walk, take in a movie...Something that gives your mind peace for a few hours.
(((Hugs)))
Regan said it best regarding trust when your not sure you should.
"Trust but verify"
And he presented it like it was the enemy's own proverb. Brilliant.
"doveryai, no proveryai"
Yes.
Starsky
P.S. Don't make decisions on those days
Yes.
Starsky
P.S. Don't make decisions on those days
Trust me. Every decision I've made that has burned me has been made when I've been emotionally exhausted. Eventually you'll find an even keel, almost a peace, and then you'll be better prepared to make the tough decisions.
Don't make major decision when you are feeling HALT:
Hungry
Angry
Lonely
Tired
This has saved my butt many a time.
Don't make major decision when you are feeling HALT:
Hungry
Angry
Lonely
Tired
This has saved my butt many a time.
O crap, is THAT what the "H" is for. All this time I thought it was
Horny
Starsky
Yeah that cow will never be the same huh?
Good advice... I am simply exhausted and tired of the F(@( drama... will step away and do nothing. Chat with you all tomorrow,
Well, last night she and I talked for a little bit after putting the knucklehead (son) to bed.
She wants to go out on a date tonight.
She also said the other night when I slept in my bed, she thought I was reconsidering about working it out and didnt like how that made her feel.
She did NOT go to TKD last night, she had a crown crack and had to go see the dentist and that didnt allow her enough time to get back and then go to TKD she said.. I just agreed with her.
so no TKD since I laid down the NC.. and she said last night she will respect my boundry and will work this out. I told her I would leave if she cant be loyal and faithful and that is simply a fact. She said she will be.
So that is about it for now. Feel better after a good nights rest. Mind gets cluttered. She wants to move back into bedroom this week..
she thought I was reconsidering about working it out and didnt like how that made her feel.
This is good for now...good to keep this going for a bit, until you are both sure you are both truly working on things and committed. Don't lose this yet.
She did NOT go to TKD last night, she had a crown crack and had to go see the dentist and that didnt allow her enough time to get back and then go to TKD she said..
Am I the only one here who doesn't fully trust this?
Any way you could discreetly verify this, Pcola?
What dentists are open at night???
Starsky,
Dental was at 430 PM emergency walk in.. she was home by 600pm.
Sorry if I didnt make that a little clearer.
OK. Then my Cynic-B.S.-O-Meter is only on a "6" instead of on a "9".
I am with Star on verifying it.
Pen if she is truly wanting to work on your (plural) marriage she should be understanding of your desire to verify trust.
I think Puppy, Robx, Coach alot of the other heavy hitters here call it transparency.
You should ask around about it.
If she is wanting to rebuild trust with you, she should except some scrutiny on your part.
LOL. the mumbling and the drool wouldn't be enough to convince you left behinds?
I could see maybe driving across country in a diaper to kill your boyfriends old lady happening, but subjecting yourself to a root canal as a cover to drive past taekwondo and see if "he" is there is ridiculous accusation.
You boys are PARANOID.
oh, btw, Did they vote at the same bingo hall?
Oh, surely. Why there's never been a cheating spouse who was newly-confronted by their spouse, and who promised to end their addiction of contact, who suddenly had to "run to the store" or "run an errand" or anything, no siree . . .
Heh... and here I was thinking... trust is something you earn
So what if he doesn't trust her, I say to myself. Why should he trust her?
I am willing to cut him a little slack as long as he doesn't become obsessive about stalking her.
Paranioa is just a heightened sense of awareness.
And not sure anyone made the accusation, which IS ridiculous, that you suggested Steve.
Emergency repairs to a Crown...does not a root canal make.
The assumption here is that she did indeed come home drooling, something Pen never mentioned.
You would rather have Pen, take her back, trust her completely and she doesn't have to earn it back? You don't think that is a disaster waiting to happen?
You've been here awhile, what happens when the spouse comes back and isn't willing to rebuild trust?
Is the TWD guy a dentist by day?
It wasn't about her going to the dentist as a cover to see the OM...
The true insight here is this:
She did NOT go to TKD...
Which may be evidence that she doesn't care so much about going to TKD when the OM isn't there. You were believing she didn't go because of your NC rule.. You got fooled. She probably didn't go because the OM wasn't going to be there. She could then use that as her excuse that she was doing what YOU wanted.
Her NOT going points more to evidence that she isn't so motivated about TKD unless the OM is there.. She then used her not going as a tool to get Pens to think that she is serious about reconciling...
Too early to tell. The WS doesn't usually get over the OM this fast. Be wise.
There's a "drilling" joke in here SOMEWHERE, but let the record show that I didn't go there . . .
Gucci makes an awesome point.
and I like Time's:
"doveryai, no proveryai"
Is the TWD guy a dentist by day?
Maybe an ORAL surgeon...
You guys are too damn funny and an earlier time I would have taken offense.. but... lmao...
Gucci,
You have a great point. I would like to point out she didnt go on Tuesday night either when she knew he goes.. and then she didnt go last night due to a cracked crown. She is well aware of my boundry and said last night she will respect it. I am watching... one of her solutions is to go to TKD on nights when he is not in the same class. She knows I will not accept them being in the same class period. No Contact means that.. and she has that loud and clear.. She knows it is a deal breaker.
I am proceeding with caution and watching.
Date tonight.. dinner. More watching.
Cuz my XW never said she was going somewhere and went somewhere else to meet OM. Like catching them together in a parking lot. Never. "insert bleeding sarcasm here"
Shocked did it happen when she was trying to reconcile?
Do or not do, there is no try.
Too early to tell. The WS doesn't usually get over the OM this fast. Be wise.
I tried telling this to ATU but he didn't listen,
I hope he's right and I'm wrong but this tends to be the case most of the time. Takes a while to recover from the love bug ;-)
I just told the same thing to Tank, basically. Like most, he LEAPED at the first offer, intead of doing the "I'm not sure HOW I feel about this anymore ... I need some time to think about it" thing.
You would rather have Pen, take her back, trust her completely and she doesn't have to earn it back? You don't think that is a disaster waiting to happen?
I still believe
as of september 30th you were separated, go out, start acting single. do you a world of good.
nothing here has convinced me to not say it again.
You've been here awhile, what happens when the spouse comes back
And I have been around the block, several times, and what happens when a spouse gets caught.
1st thing. they say, we need to cool it my husband knows and I can't lose my kids over this. or I am not losing my career over this right now. or I have been through this with my first wife take some time to figure out what you want to do...
then. someone is driving by someone elses house and calling and hanging up and sending up smoke signals
and alot depends on who did the breaking up and what the other person feelings are for getting put on hold or dumped.
or they are just "cooling off"
Robx, and Steve,
yea, I hope this is not the case either. I am watching.. I was pretty quick to suspect the EA and got the records to prove it happened. Then I confronted. Then the crazy crap the last few weeks and her turnaround on Halloween, after I went out with my friend, told her to get out and I was moving on.. she came to me and told me she doesnt want a divorce and now is trying to work it out.. although her committment affection level is lower than I would like, she says she needs time to ease into it.. I am not sure if that is normal or if she is holding back because she feels loss from the EA...
it bends the mind.
Robx, and Steve,
yea, I hope this is not the case either. I am watching.. I was pretty quick to suspect the EA and got the records to prove it happened. Then I confronted. Then the crazy crap the last few weeks and her turnaround on Halloween, after I went out with my friend, told her to get out and I was moving on.. she came to me and told me she doesnt want a divorce and now is trying to work it out.. although her committment affection level is lower than I would like, she says she needs time to ease into it.. I am not sure if that is normal or if she is holding back because she feels loss from the EA...
it bends the mind.
It's not normal and it's bull$hit,
she didn't need time to ease into her affair and I'm sure if given the chance, she wouldn't need to ease into her committment affection level.
This isn't how women act when they're really into the men they want to be with.
At least you're being honest with us,
now you have to be honest with yourself,
this isn't good enough for you,
you're settling for this behavior and you shouldn't have to settle for anything especially when dealing with a spouse who was having an affair.
Tell her that you're not sure about her anymore and you have to think about things and start going out with your friend again.
she didn't need time to ease into her affair
She didn't? She didn't go through that attraction phase or 'friendship' phase , she just picked the guy out and jumped him?
: )
Hold up. The reason she sought out another man is because she lost her attraction, at least to some extent, to Pensa. She may know intellectually that it makes more sense to work on her relationship than to have an affair, but that doesn't mean that she's ready to fully reconnect emotionally with Pensa, especially since he is expressing reservations to her by not even sleeping in the same bed.
Hey, if my wife decided that she wanted to work on our R right now my affection level would not be very high either until some trust and respect was rebuilt.
she didn't need time to ease into her affair
She didn't? She didn't go through that attraction phase or 'friendship' phase , she just picked the guy out and jumped him?
: )
You're assuming the attraction phase and friendship phase took a long time to facilitate.
When a woman really wants to be in a relationship with a man, she makes it easy, she doesn't make it difficult. You ever notice people who are in affairs, always "busy" when the affair is new, always "working late", always have a "business thing to attend", always "going out with friends, drinking too much, staying over night", always "too busy to do something" with their spouse and family, always making excuses so that they can make time to be with their affair partner. She does whatever she can to make time for the other man, to be with him, the affair is like a drug, she needs it and she needs it now and makes excuses to get it as often as possible - there is no easing into it.
Jack, you and I will always have two different opinions for dealing with people who cheat on their spouses ;-)
Hold up. The reason she sought out another man is because she lost her attraction, at least to some extent, to Pensa. She may know intellectually that it makes more sense to work on her relationship than to have an affair, but that doesn't mean that she's ready to fully reconnect emotionally with Pensa, especially since he is expressing reservations to her by not even sleeping in the same bed.
Hey, if my wife decided that she wanted to work on our R right now my affection level would not be very high either until some trust and respect was rebuilt.
Agree with MP. The DECISION to work on the marriage can be (and should be) immediately, but the ATTRACTION is going to take time to re-establish.
Shocked did it happen when she was trying to reconcile?
I don't recall specifically on this one, but there were definitely some lies involving OM for sure while "trying to reconcile".
she didn't need time to ease into her affair
She didn't? She didn't go through that attraction phase or 'friendship' phase , she just picked the guy out and jumped him?
: )
You're assuming the attraction phase and friendship phase took a long time to facilitate.
When a woman really wants to be in a relationship with a man, she makes it easy, she doesn't make it difficult. You ever notice people who are in affairs, always "busy" when the affair is new, always "working late", always have a "business thing to attend", always "going out with friends, drinking too much, staying over night", always "too busy to do something" with their spouse and family, always making excuses so that they can make time to be with their affair partner. She does whatever she can to make time for the other man, to be with him, the affair is like a drug, she needs it and she needs it now and makes excuses to get it as often as possible - there is no easing into it.
Jack, you and I will always have two different opinions for dealing with people who cheat on their spouses ;-)
Rob
I agree with you most of the time, but the romance level of an affair and reconnecting with the father of your children just isn't the same. The decision to work on your marriage is not based on hormones. The decision to have an affair is.
Hold up. The reason she sought out another man is because she lost her attraction, at least to some extent, to Pensa. She may know intellectually that it makes more sense to work on her relationship than to have an affair, but that doesn't mean that she's ready to fully reconnect emotionally with Pensa, especially since he is expressing reservations to her by not even sleeping in the same bed.
Hey, if my wife decided that she wanted to work on our R right now my affection level would not be very high either until some trust and respect was rebuilt.
interesting to see how some people still use logic when dealing with emotion ;-)
Logic and Emotion are two different things,
you can't use male logic when dealing with female emotion, you need to learn a different "logic" when dealing with female emotion and create that environment where those feelings are generated.
...She may know intellectually that it makes more sense to work on her relationship than to have an affair, but that doesn't mean that she's ready to fully reconnect emotionally with Pensa
Would you really want a woman to stay with you and be with you if she was only in it because "intellectually" she knew it made more sense to be with you instead of the other man?
I hope not, that type of logic is easily trumped by emotion, rationalizations for the type of behavior that enables affairs and cheating are always made in an environment where a woman only stays with a man because it's the right thing to do "intellectually".
Something to think about.
you can't use male logic when dealing with female emotion, you need to learn a different "logic" when dealing with female emotion and create that environment where those feelings are generated.
Be a Cat Whisperer.
Rob,
The cool part is we both have the same end goal, a stronger LBS, and the abilty to be in a healthy relationship, no matter what relationship that is, wife or someone else.
I like the fact that we have different approaches. Options.
And while we disagree, it is respectful.
I sit here hesitant, about 5 minutes now, trying to phrase this in a way that is not seen as an attack.
Last night I was reminded that us older guys here want to impart our advice and for that advice to occur like turning on a light switch. Man up, get self respect, set a boundary.
We tend to forget how long it took us to get to that place where we, ourselves could do that.
That was not an attack.
I know that I know what the goal is, and I want the guys I believe I am helping to get there as quickly as possible, I tend to forget that it took me a long while to figure it out even with others telling me.
I agree with you most of the time, but the romance level of an affair and reconnecting with the father of your children just isn't the same. The decision to work on your marriage is not based on hormones. The decision to have an affair is.
My experience is that hormones played a huge role in our reconciliation. It's amazing when you realise the power of catnip.
no worries, it's all good ;-)
I agree with you most of the time, but the romance level of an affair and reconnecting with the father of your children just isn't the same. The decision to work on your marriage is not based on hormones. The decision to have an affair is.
My experience is that hormones played a huge role in our reconciliation. It's amazing when you realise the power of catnip.
yup!
My experience is that hormones played a huge role in our reconciliation
I am unaware of any procedure that might be available to remove the human endocrine system completely.
Dry humor.
I agree with you most of the time, but the romance level of an affair and reconnecting with the father of your children just isn't the same. The decision to work on your marriage is not based on hormones. The decision to have an affair is.
My experience is that hormones played a huge role in our reconciliation. It's amazing when you realise the power of catnip.
I would not call it huge, Cat Whisperer. There was a hell of a lot more going on than hormones.
Greek
Oh, it's
never good when your wife says to you "I wouldn't call it huge ..."
I agree with you most of the time, but the romance level of an affair and reconnecting with the father of your children just isn't the same. The decision to work on your marriage is not based on hormones. The decision to have an affair is.
My experience is that hormones played a huge role in our reconciliation. It's amazing when you realise the power of catnip.
I would not call it huge, Cat Whisperer. There was a hell of a lot more going on than hormones.
Greek
I understand how you could see it that way.
Oh, it's
never good when your wife says to you "I wouldn't call it huge ..."
Tumor
Just hate to see something that has taken so much work and will, reduced to something as fickle as hormones.
Just sayin'.
Greek
Hmmm... From a woman's point of view...it takes me quite a while to get to know a guy/get involved -- especially if a marriage/kids are invalid.
As a woman ...it takes time to rekindle that attraction and that bond. Do all the things the OM did... The things YOU did before the mortgage, the kids, and the laundry took over! Take it slow, if you get the chance " date" her!
I don't trust this at all.
I think she got dumped by TKD guy and Pensacola is simply the default.
If she really wants her M back, she would jettison TKD altogether. I know it's "important" to her, but she polluted that one the minute she started her A.
Or do actions not have consequences after all?
Or do actions not have consequences after all?
Oh, they do have consequences, alright. They have both intended and unintended consequences.
It's easier to see the problem if you flip it around to focus on her as if she were coming here for advice.
If she came here and said she had an affair with her TKD instructor, and now her husband wants a divorce, but she wanted to save her marriage, but she wasn't willing to give up going to that martial arts studio, what would you tell her?
Yeah that cow will never be the same huh?
Moovelous!
My experience is that hormones played a huge role in our reconciliation
I am unaware of any procedure that might be available to remove the human endocrine system completely.
Dry humor.
Call Gary Busey. He will rip it out for you. Did you see that clip of him? What a tool!
I think that if she wants to try to reconcile that you should push for two things no contact and transparency and that's it for about the first 6 months. From the reading that i have done going through this situation myself, having an affair is like an addiction. They will have withdrawal symptoms the first few months and this will make them very depressed and not wanting to connect on the emotional level that they may have before. People who are successful at breaking an affair seem to have some understanding of this. If you can spend that time allowing them to see your best side, rather than focusing on what they are or are not putting into the marriage I think you will be much more successful than if you pressure them to feel something that they may not be able to feel at the moment which is a strong emotional connection to you. I know it doesn't seem fair, but no contact alone is going to be about all she can handle right now, and a pretty tough feat to accomplish. If you can get her to do that for about 6 months, she may be able to work on reconnecting once this time period is up. I think I pushed to hard for too much affection early on when my husband was still going through this withdrawal.
I think that if she wants to try to reconcile that you should push for two things no contact and transparency and that's it for about the first 6 months. From the reading that i have done going through this situation myself, having an affair is like an addiction. They will have withdrawal symptoms the first few months and this will make them very depressed and not wanting to connect on the emotional level that they may have before. People who are successful at breaking an affair seem to have some understanding of this. If you can spend that time allowing them to see your best side, rather than focusing on what they are or are not putting into the marriage I think you will be much more successful than if you pressure them to feel something that they may not be able to feel at the moment which is a strong emotional connection to you. I know it doesn't seem fair, but no contact alone is going to be about all she can handle right now, and a pretty tough feat to accomplish. If you can get her to do that for about 6 months, she may be able to work on reconnecting once this time period is up. I think I pushed to hard for too much affection early on when my husband was still going through this withdrawal.
There it is boys & girls! Very good post, lostandconfused6. I don't whistle very well, but you get one hard try from me.....
I think that if she wants to try to reconcile that you should push for two things no contact and transparency and that's it for about the first 6 months. From the reading that i have done going through this situation myself, having an affair is like an addiction. They will have withdrawal symptoms the first few months and this will make them very depressed and not wanting to connect on the emotional level that they may have before. People who are successful at breaking an affair seem to have some understanding of this. If you can spend that time allowing them to see your best side, rather than focusing on what they are or are not putting into the marriage I think you will be much more successful than if you pressure them to feel something that they may not be able to feel at the moment which is a strong emotional connection to you. I know it doesn't seem fair, but no contact alone is going to be about all she can handle right now, and a pretty tough feat to accomplish. If you can get her to do that for about 6 months, she may be able to work on reconnecting once this time period is up. I think I pushed to hard for too much affection early on when my husband was still going through this withdrawal.
There it is boys & girls! Very good post, lostandconfused6. I don't whistle very well, but you get one hard try from me.....
Yeah, I think this sums it up, too, and I'm gonna stick to my guns on this one.
I don't trust this at all.
I think she got dumped by TKD guy and Pensacola is simply the default.
Forgive me if I'm mis-remembering, but Pens, aren't you getting deployed again soon? The cynic in me says she's just stringing you along so that yes, you will continue to pay the bills when you go.
Lost,
I agree. That is the current boundry we are at. She agreed to give me access to her phone, her email, her fb all of it.. I reciprocated, to show the trust.
We had a nice date. Dinner and we talked. She opened up about a lot of it and apologized for her actions and lies. She stated again she wanted to move forward and become stronger. She also told me she "broke" the contact with OM back in September except for the TKD classes and that she understands that they cannot continue in the same class any longer and why.
She was my same old friend and girl I married, but I was still cautious and remain so.
I think she has made HUGE progress and now I need to see if she backs it up with words.
Progress and Lost, I agree with your comments.
Robx, I think your advice to me is what started the catlyst she told me she lost her mind when I went out to dinner with my friend (female). that was what steered her out of her fog.
She is moving back into the bedroom today.
Kimmie, actions have consequences . I have set the boundries and she is respecting them. I think she may stop TKD when she gets level 2 Black Belt Passed. That has always been her goal.. she told me she is not sure how long she will remain with it, and that is different then 2 weeks ago.
4more, yea I deploy in Dec-Jan.. it will be a big test of trust.. you have to start somewhere...
oh and she said when she broke it off she told him it wasnt right and she needed to focus on her happiness and end the marriage before persuing any other relationship.. and that was when she decided to divorce me .. but she maintains she didnt see him or contact him after that.. I dont believe it... but nonetheless she is here now and agreed to my terms...
This is why 100% no-contact, and complete transparency, is so important. Because even if she IS sincere, she will have a very difficult time pulling this off if OM doesn't respect it, or even if SHE has the sudden urge to re-contact him.
There is "willing," and then there is "able."
Starsky
Pens-
You are very far from being out of the woods with this thing yet. I think you have some positive signs - no contact (as far as you know), transparency, and some remorse. I think if you read about affairs you will find that many of them end up going back to the affair partner at least once. They really need to hit rock bottom first, and unfortunately I don't think you going out to dinner with a friend is rock bottom. I really doubt that is the reason the affair stopped. Something else must have happened on either his/her end that caused it to end if that is really the case. Your moves over the next few months are going to determine what happens next. Focus on you, not her. Try not to have any R talks yet. That will come later. You will push her right back to him if you do. Really work on yourself and try to be the kind of husband she would want to have, but never make it look like you are doing it for her. Spend the next 90 days trying to do nothing that would "turn her off" no neediness, hide all of your annoying habits, etc. I really suggest that you go to marriagebuilders.com and read what they have to say about recovering from affairs.If you can stick to this plan if she does relapse (which there is a strong chance she will) then you know you have done everything you could, and at least set the stage for her wanting to come back when she does hit her rock bottom. If and when she does break no contact be ready to end it, and do this without acting emotional or making her feel guilty for breaking the no contact. It's like dealing with a child going to time out - no emotion. Just wipe your hands of it and walk away. Again, this will help her to want to come back when she does hit rock bottom. I know I may seem like I am jumping the gun now by telling you all of this, but I wish I had known all this when I was in the position that you are now, instead of after the fact. So it is better to be prepared. This is a long process and you have a lot of work ahead of you!
[j.
1st thing. they say, we need to cool it my husband knows and I can't lose my kids over this. or I am not losing my career over this right now. or I have been through this with my first wife take some time to figure out what you want to do...
then. someone is driving by someone elses house and calling and hanging up and sending up smoke signals
and alot depends on who did the breaking up and what the other person feelings are for getting put on hold or dumped.
or they are just "cooling off"
[/quote]
This is exactly how it happens.
Sorry- I was trying to do a quote of what Steve said above and I don't know how to do that yet. But reread the part of his post that I put above, b/c that is exactly how it happened to me.
I think I'd make her work her way back into the marital bed. You are so glad to have her "back" that you are moving way too fast.
I believe that the WAS should have to suffer at the same level and for as long as the LBS before they can earn their way back.
I believe that the WAS should have to suffer at the same level and for as long as the LBS before they can earn their way back.
Really?
Who gets to keep score?
Coach, I was exaggerating, sort of.
I just think he's moving too fast and letting her off the hook to easily.
This thread is very large, please start a new one.
Thanks,
sg