My story:
My wife a and I have been married for 11 years and together for 13. We have 2 children. The boy is 4 and the girl is 2. I thought that our marriage was strong because we have gone through a lot and survived with no counseling or extended family support. The memories of how this started are blury but basically this spring we had lots of arguments, did not spend time together because I was taking a class, and did not plan any vacations. Sometime at the end of July we had a big argument. According to W (my memory is sketchy and very different) she was so afraid of me after that, that she packed the van with the kids the next day and left for her parents. She spent a little over a week there. When she returned she would not let me kiss her or touch her and was colder towards me than ever before. After a couple of days of this I finally confronted her about it and she told me that I should consider us separated. She was already sleeping on the sofa bed we have in the living room. Her story may be different now, but at the time she originally said she was sleeping there because the air bed was good for her back. We have the computer in the living room as well. So now she was spending a lot of time on facebook and away "running errands". She joined a running group at the Y earlier in the year and they became part of her "support" group. She also started drinking again, buying new clothes and texting her friends on the phone. She avoided me like the plague and would not explain to me what she meant by "separated". We had no phisical contact and she was using the kids bathroom now. I proposed going to counseling and she said she was not interested in marriage counseling but that she was going to counseling for herself and that I should do the same. Then she said she needed to go away for a weekend to take a break from the kids. She went away for 3 days on Labor day weekend and I stayed at home with the kids. She texted me a couple of times to ask me about the kids and to tell me that she was walking or going to bed etc. When she came back, she was certainly refreshed and we had a conversation that night. She then said that she wanted a divorce eventually after she got back on her feet(ie find a job, get her credentials to teach) but in the mean time she wants to enjoy life, be happy, be free, go out with her friends and date other men.
I listened to it all, cried all night. Went to work the next morning and spent the whole day writing her an email about how I could not tolerate her dating other men and living under the same roof. I told her that I was changing the person that I was so that I could be more emphatetic and caring. She answered by asking me why I had spent a whole day writing that email to her and that I was risking losing my job and putting our family at risk. She asked me not to do that again. After that we had some conversations where I practiced listening to her and trying to understand why she was doing what she was doing. She would not be explicit in anything other than I had a serious problem and I needed to deal with it or I would lose the love of my children like I had lost hers. So I scheduled a visit for Oct 6. The weekend before my appointment I again stayed home with the kids and she went to a fund raiser at a friends house and stayed there overnight. That saturday night I was so upset and hurt that I did something I had told myself that would never do, I hacked into her e-mail account. That is when I found out that she had at least an EA with an old friend from High School that was well on his way into his own divorce.
She had deleted all these emails but I found them anyway. So she comes back and I don't know how to confront her. After a couple of days I get tired of all the lies I keep hearing from her and I tell her that I know what is going on. She tells me that she is in love and that it just happened and that her intentions were never to hurt me. Then I find out that she spent labor day weekend with the OM and that she actually invited him to fly here to meet her. We live in California and he lives in Missouri. I did not follow through with my threat to leave because she said she needed help with the kids. I said I would ask my counselor before I made a decision. After I came back we had an argument about why she had done that and she tells me that I broke my vows first and that I left the marriage a long time ago and that she had warned me that she was going to do something like this. Last Sunday, she left for Idaho with the kids to go see her family there. She has been there ever since and she has been sending text and calling at least once a day each. She is coming back on Nov 3, but this is not a change of plans and she is not clear about what kind of relationship she is keeping with OM. She just told me before she left that she was planning on keeping him as part of her support group.
My therapist thinks that she has ACOA syndrome and her therapist thinks I have some "personality" disorder that she won't disclose. My guess is "narcissistic" because I know how she describes me now to other people.
Anyway, enough rambling. I know that I have left out important details but I guess I can fill in questions. I am calling a coach tomorrow and I need to come up with goals. Right now I am quite numb because I am taking Zoloft for "severe" depression.
Hi, Broken -
First, I'm sorry to see you here. You are in the right place for support, understanding and ideas for getting your life back on track.
Second, if you have been coming here for a while before you posted your sitch, then you know what the common census is: LET HER GO.
It's common for the WAW to rewrite history and blame everything on you. Don't fall for it. We all have a part in our M getting to this point. She is the one who is having an affair, not you.
She has told you she wants out and that she wants OM to be a part of her life. The simple answer is to let her have what she wants. Tell her she needs to find her own place and that you won't be part of an open M.
Some of the vets will chime in soon. In the mean time, post often and ask questions. Most importantly, read as much as you can and notice what works in these sitches. It is hard work. You can and must do it for your own well being first and foremost.
I agree.
She then said that she wanted a divorce eventually after she got back on her feet(ie find a job, get her credentials to teach) but in the mean time she wants to enjoy life, be happy, be free, go out with her friends and date other men.
I got the exact same thing from my W a couple days ago. Considder yourself lucky your W is still in the house. My recommendation is to say:
I understand and I agree. But I don't think it is healthy for us or the kids that you stay here when you want out of the marriage. I suggest you find an apartment this week, and I will begin to consult lawyers.
Broken,
Sorry to see you here. There's a lot of great advice and experience here and it can go a long way in helping you through this. Much of what you will hear seems counter-intuitive, but trust me your experience is not unique and most of us have been through this.
It looks like to me that you need to take quick and immediate action. Stop groveling, crying and contacting her unecessarily. Go buy the Divorce Remedy book and read it...much of what you will hear on this forum will make better sense.
I would post questions and experiences on here and generally you'll get some good advice.
I suggest you find an apartment this week, and I will begin to consult lawyers.
I would say NEVER leave. Odds are better if she's in the house, like you said. She's leaving you, so she should leave the home. It can also have implications later if this does goto divorce, especially if there are kids. Do not leave the home.
yes broken, do not grovel and do not try to prevent her from doing what she wants. Let go of OM (hard to do for me too) your W was in a marriage and has broken her vows. Do what you can to take care of you and your kids. Do not listen to her BS right now. The best thing to say to yourself is "whatever".
Hi Broken,
Read as much as you can here. Read DR as ASAP, and do not let W see/read it. It is your play book.
You have many choices on how to handle this. I strongly recommend that you calmly give here a GUCCI or ALLEN A speech in person. Look up those users and see what they recommend over and over.
There are many reasons that I recommend this. I have read 50+ personal growth books since the bomb and countless posts on these boards. The things that work are counter-intuitive.
Here is a pattern to use to speak to W:
Make an Observation, your thoughts on the observation, your feelings on the observation, what you need.You can spin this many ways, here is a simple one:
"Wife, This marriage is no longer working for me. I think it is best if you find a place to live as soon as possible. Two weeks should be plenty of time to find a new place. I will even help you pack."
I am sure I have posted better ways to state the same thing here:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1407102#Post1407102The important part is to project to her that you do not want to be involved with her. She cheated on you and you do not tolerate that kind of disrespect. She is no longer welcome in your house.
Project that you are happy that you are free of her. She will get angry... Use the pattern above:
Calmly say "You look angry. I will not tolerate being yelled at. " Walk away.....
Read as much as you can until you understand why I recommend that you respond this way.....
Always respond, never react......
"I am thinking"
"I have not decided"
"I understand you feel that way"
.
.
.
I wish you well.
I did say something along those lines when I came back from the therapist. She said that what was not healthy for the kids was all the fights we were having before. That if I left she would have to find someone else to look after the kids when she is investing time on herself. Also now she is really worried about our finances (OM is bankrupt)so renting a place cost extra money that we will need for the big D. and to support the kids.
So far the kids seem to be oblivious to this, If I move out, at least my son will start to figure out what is going on..
I got DR last Saturday. I read all 300 plus pages in 14 hours.
My main problem is that she has the wall up now. She does not want to talk about our relationship or where things are going.
We talk fairly often but is either about the kids or small talk with lots of awkward silence periods. If I ask her what she is feeling, she won't say much but the little she says is very painful to hear.
Question:
How do I deal with the "support" group? This group includes friends from the Moms club, the OM, some members of her family that no longer speak to me on account that they are not interested in my side of the story and sadly I think, her therapist that diagnosed me with some "disorder" without even meeting me. There may be others that I am not aware of.
Rationalize all you want but trust me it's a very bad move to leave.
You will not be able to "deal" with her & her support groups. Don't waste your time trying to get them to hear your side of the story b/c they've already set up judgment. That is why it is good for you to come here instead of trying to get advice from friends/family......they will say what you want to hear and we don't. You know the truth and for now, that's all that is important. Your W will even convince herself of her own lies b/c she wants to be justified for what she's done to you.
Don't discuss the R with your W! I know you are probably wondering how the problems will get worked out if you don't talk about them, right? You are going to hear a lot of things that will sound very opposite of what you thought would be the correct advice for DB. Already it sounds as if we are telling you how to bust the M instead of a D, but trust me, if you'll do what you read here, you'll stand a much bigger chance of saving the M.
Right now you are in a panic mode and you need to try to calm down so you think. You can't think properly when the emotions are out of control. All you are going through is normal so don't be too hard on yourself, but do try very hard to get a handle on yourself.
You will have to accept the fact that you cannot control your W. You cannot control what she tells others or what they think about you. All you can truly control is yourself. So, get your focus off your W, off the MR, off the OM, and think about you and the kids.
Most LBH's bang their heads against the wall wondering why this and why that. Why is the W doing what she always hated in others,etc. She is not the girl you M. She has changed in her thinking, feelings, morals, principles, everything! You will be SHOCKED at more to come. She is not through dishing out. So, be prepared for anything.
I believe a WAW who is in an A must suffer some type of loss before she will begin to change her mind and do what is right regarding the M. It has to be something very precious to her. Therefore, do not make things easy for her. A WAW will try to have the best of both worlds. She's already said that she needs someone to babysit while she has time for herself. Well, sorry.....but that's too bad b/c you aren't going to babysit when she's not there. She will have to find (and maybe pay) for someone else to do it. You will be out GAL. You pick and choose when you will be there and when you will be with the kids, not when she says. The very best thing that I believe a LBH could do when his WAW is in an A is to dump her. That's right. If she thinks that you don't want her, then she will suddenly get very focused on you instead of OM. However, if you pursue your W, she will be sickened by your actions. She wants what she can't have. That is why she got into an EA to start with.
Does your inlaws live in the same town? Do you and your W attend church?
Yes WAW are ok with divorce they file for 2/3 of them. Your WAW will do things you never thought possible. You may get her back you may not, there is no sure thing. The best thing you can do is get your mind and life inorder. Being the lbh sucks. Hope you have better luck than I did.
My inlaws live four hours away. No, not together.
here is what I thought about today:
If I really want to act as if I do not care if she continues down the D path, I have to think about all the benefits from being alone and focus on them.
1-No more naging. The OM will start to get that soon enough.
2-When D is final I will control at leas 1/4 of my income, right now I control 1% and she spends 99% on stuff that just aggravates me.
3-I will get to take my children to my side of the family on some Holidays. Up until now they only know my dad in person and my sister, niece, nephew and brother in law thanks to Skype. My mother they have only seen in pictures. Because we always have gone to her family for every single holiday, and no, I am not exagerating.
4-I will be able to separate my finances and credit from hers. From D day on, if she is late paying her credit card bill, the fee comes out of her pocket not mine.
If she wants to waste money on every weight loss product or method known to man, she will be paying for it and I won't be getting upset anymore about it.
5- I will get to watch what I want on TV. No more Real Housewifes of _______ (fill in the blank) or "Medium" or that Jennifer Love Hewett Show about dead people.
6-I get to buy my own clothes and not wear things I do not like just to please her.
You can do some of these things anyway and right now.
Especially numbers 3,5 and 6.
Yes, you should be doing those things now!
If she acts like my waw 5 months after the bomb she has a huge support group of totally new friends there is nothing you can do except be a better person than her. You wouldn't take your side if you heard what she's saying about you. Just worry about your self nothing you can do about her support group of fake new good time friends.
Well, my sister lives in Europe and I can't take the kids there without W's approval. I have to start preparing to do that though. My son is allergic to peanuts and I will have to carry epi-pens on the plane as well as his hearing aid. My daughter is two so I need a car seat for her, and I know they won't be easy to handle in sucha long trip( I live in California). Hopefully she will not think that I am taking them there and not coming back because that is not the case, even though the idea does sound appealing sometimes.
I think I slid yesterday. Sent WAW an SMS with audio. I was singing a song to my daughter for WAW to play it for her when she put her down. The only problem is that the song was "I will" (Beatles white album) and I do not think it went well. She has not called or texted today, when she has been doing it at least twice a day for the last two weeks. Is my fault, because afterwards I remembered that I used to sing that song to her (WAW).
Teach your kid this song instead, and the next time you want to send a "cute" video....
Dave Edmunds-- I hear ya knockin'
Your cheating W controls 99% of the money? Cut it off. NOW!
Do not move out!!
If she wants to continue down this path, she can do it with NO HELP FROM YOU!!
Oh, and don't worry about making her mad. If you put your foot down and keep it there, you will regain some of the respect she has lost for you.
Your cheating W controls 99% of the money? Cut it off. NOW!
Do not move out!!
If she wants to continue down this path, she can do it with NO HELP FROM YOU!!
Oh, and don't worry about making her mad. If you put your foot down and keep it there, you will regain some of the respect she has lost for you.
Yes!! and without respect, the can be not reconciliation!
No, she does not control it, she just spends it. She never knows how much money is in the checking account. So I am the one that has to keep an eye on it so that checks do not bounce. She does carry the checkbook because I never pay anything with checks but was never able to persuade her to do the same. We have all our accounts joined (will never make that mistake again). So yes, I have thought about separating our finances. Closing all the joint accounts and credit cards but don't know yet how she will react to that.
I need help from the vets on this because I am not sure that is the right way to go.
OM is bankrupt and she is "in love" so I am worried about some money "evaporating" for that reason. The main issue here is that some times she is the person I know and trust and sometimes she is not.
She feels she deserves to be supported because according to her she sacrificed here career to rear the children and now she needs help with getting her credential to teach again.
I guess I can tell her that we can split everything we had up to the day she dropped the bomb and from then on what I make is mine and I will pay her child support and alimony. I think that is more than fair.
I just do not want her to stay for financial reasons. Yes, she probably would say ok to droping OM but it would not be sincere.
I know she thinks about this all the time and does not feel good about it.
In that sense she is an atypical WAW. She did not wait until she was able to survive on her own to drop the bomb and now she regrets it. (the timing I mean).
She is expecting me to kick her out any minute now and she is dumbfounded that I have not done it yet.
She is in Idaho with her family right now and has been for two weeks. The only time she called to talk about the R she asked me if she still had a home to come back to. I told her that I never kicked her out and would never do that. I do not want to separate her from the children. They spend most of the time with her because I work an hour away from home.
In any case part of our problems were that she felt I was controlling because I would not agree with her spending habits. However, I never stopped her from doing anything.
There is also guilt on my part. I feel I was too harsh before the bomb droped because I was always pointing out the non-sense in her spending and how much more money we would have if she had been more careful. When we finally talked about separation, I told her that I never meant to hurt her. That if I wanted to save money was for the future of the family and now that she was destroying it I could care less if she spent it all. So if I start making money the issue, I would be contradicting myself.
I guess also part of what makes OM attractive is how much he is not careful with money either.
Closing all the joint accounts and credit cards but don't know yet how she will react to that.
If she's chasing other men, who cares how she reacts?
My Xw did much of the same. Much of her 'awe' of my committment was out of guilt.
This is my feeling about this...she is probably feeling unworthy to some degree. She in some small (very) way knows that you have turned around and that could possibly be a good husband and father. She knows she's screwed up and there's no going back. Truth, ego or whatever reason, she cannot face the reality of her behavior. Eventually, she will try and find another man to be this again for her and she will have a clean slate and can be the 'good girl' again.
The key is getting her to realize this...that history means something. And the only way to start this is for you to make the best of this and drop the rope...
1-No more naging. The OM will start to get that soon enough.
2-When D is final I will control at leas 1/4 of my income, right now I control 1% and she spends 99% on stuff that just aggravates me.
3-I will get to take my children to my side of the family on some Holidays. Up until now they only know my dad in person and my sister, niece, nephew and brother in law thanks to Skype. My mother they have only seen in pictures. Because we always have gone to her family for every single holiday, and no, I am not exagerating.
4-I will be able to separate my finances and credit from hers. From D day on, if she is late paying her credit card bill, the fee comes out of her pocket not mine.
If she wants to waste money on every weight loss product or method known to man, she will be paying for it and I won't be getting upset anymore about it.
5- I will get to watch what I want on TV. No more Real Housewifes of _______ (fill in the blank) or "Medium" or that Jennifer Love Hewett Show about dead people.
6-I get to buy my own clothes and not wear things I do not like just to please her.
Don't forget to take your pants back from her.
Get your own bank account right away. Start protecting your assets and prepare for the divorce. Just because you prepare for it, doesnt mean it will happen. Separate all financial matters. Do not move out of the house. Do not let her take the kids out of state until an arrangement is made. If she gets upset, so what! She is having an affair with another man! She doesnt care about your feelings in all of this, so dont worry about hers.
See a lawyer, get the ball rolling. Make sure she understands that you will not settle for anything less than shared custody of the children. They can stay with you and visit at her place.
please protect yourself. If this affair continues, she will be spending your money to have a good time with his broke butt.
Solid advice, tank. I took this advice and I'm glad I did. Money started disappearing from my business account to the tune of $400 per day. I shut that down quick. In reality, cutting them off forces them to start thinking about consequences...
Ok I am listening now.
Here is the epiphany I had today and It may help tank with his conundrum. I love her because she is the mother of my children and we spent many years together and went through a lot. She took care of me when I was sick and saved my life.
What I realized today is that I also resent her. I do because I do not think I did anything that would justify infidelity. I do because she lied to me repeatedly and has not come clean yet.
I am not showing it because I want to save the marriage and if I keep pressuring her I would be acting like the old me.
I don't want her to panic, but she needs to understand that I do not want her to stay with me because she has no other place to go. I do not want to sabotage my chances for reconciliation but I need to know where I stand. She agreed to go to counseling together and we are doing so on Dec 1. I think she is softening out of guilt for what she is done but like you guys mentioned before, that is pity, not love and she is not showing me any respect. Like Sandi2 said, I need to take my pants back.
It is not easy to do that without starting a war that will affect the children. So tomorrow when she gets home we will talk.
I will take my Zoloft so that I do not get emotional and I will ask her this:
What do you want to happen?
Do you still want a divorce?
If so, when do you think that will happen?
If not, why don't you want a divorce anymore?
If it is because of fear of losing health coverage, do you want to file for legal separation then?
If yes, lets get the ball rolling because I do not want to have any other financial ties to you and I do not want to support your new "lifestyle" because IMO is not good for me, for the children, for the family and in the long run not even for you.
Please understand that I still love you but I can not allow you to behave in a disrespectful manner towards me because that does not help my cause and it affects the children negatively. If you want me to be your friend for the sake of the kids, you still need to respect your friend.
Would you like to know what I need from you so that I feel respected?
Yes? Ok. First you need to tell me the truth and nothing but from
now on. You need to explain to me what happened because I think I deserve a full explanation. You do not need to fear my response. I know you are sorry, but I need to know what you are sorry for.
If you do not want a legal separation, then what do you want?
You don't know? You are confused? You need time?
Ok, I give you time. But in the interim, what are we?
Should I see you as my enemy? my friend? my frienemy?
If we are not friends, the kids will suffer, but if we are not open and truthful, we can't be friends.
Sigh....
Why on earth would you start talking R with her again?
Stop it. Stop asking her questions You are tipping your hand.
So what should I do then?
First of all you shouldn't be initiating R discussions. Period. Second, just look at the list of questions you created to ask her. You are giving her all the decision making power. Don't reason with her. Figure out what you want and do it.
What part of taking back your balls don't you understand?
What do I want?
I want her back. I want to make her fall in love with me again. I want her to believe that I can change and have changed. I want my children to have a stable home with parents that love each other and put them first. I want the opportunity to grow together and make up for lost years. I want to work on our problems and get closer as a result of all this.
I got some answers yesterday.
She still wants a divorce, but she does not know when she will be ready for it.
Emotionally she is still in love with OM but she said that she will end it because is not good for anyone involved.
She is still trying to understand why I behaved the way I did before she dropped the bomb. That is her only motivation to go to couples therapy.
She is afraid that I am mentally unstable and does not know what to expect from me from one day to the next. I do cry a lot and have a hard time handling my emotions. I was diagnosed with severe depression and I am taking Zoloft. I also take medication for ADHD and was previously diagnosed with OCD, but I am not taking medication for that.
I did tell her that no matter what I say, I will not kick her out of the house because I know she has no means of survival.
I am not leaving because I want to be close to my children and she does not want me to leave.
As far as GAL. I have started to exercise in the mornings (6 am to 7 am swimming) but I feel bad about it because I do not see my kids in the morning now.
She wants me to GAL. She is GAL herself. At this point I think I should push for separation and if she wants someone to take her of her that is not me, she should give the OM a try and see how that works out for her.
Still pondering what to do.
War? Peace?
Break my promises?
Do a 180?
First of all it will get better and you will be fine. You have to be for your kids.
Emotions follow thought, so think of the future and positive thoughts.
No war. No more pursuing, and relationship talk. Let her go.
Sure do 180's. You have found out some of the things that DO NOT work. Keep finding what does work.
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I want to let her go, I just don't know how.
How much of the OCD bothers your W? I'm wondering how big a part that has been over the years? Have you ever been in therapy for it?
You say you want to let her go,but you don't really. That's understandable. But here's the thing....you are scared to death and that is what she's seeing.
A WAW in an A needs a strong man. It is very important that she is not able to "use" him. If he buckles down under her dictation.....it won't work. If she sees any signs that makes you appear to be weak, she'll tear you apart. I understand depression and crying. But, don't cry in front of her. Do not let your children see you crying. That will cause them to be insecure and cause her to .....well, feel disgusted.
I said that on a post once and the LBH thought I was being rather hard, but I KNOW
Oh flip! I accidently hit the submit button. Here's the rest of what I was trying to say:
KNOW what a WAW feels and I'm trying to paint you a picture of what not to do. She does not feel things like she once did. She will not feel sorry for you. The main thing she must feel right now.....is respect for you as a man. Forget about wanting to know if she loves you! She can't love you right now b/c she has no respect for you. A woman has to respect a man before she can feel love and sexual attraction. I'm telling you like it is and you better hear what I'm saying or she'll be gone. She's already left you--emotionally, sexually, every way but physical. She's closed her heart and the only thing that will cause it to open is respect.
A woman needs to have a strong leader for her family. How do you be a strong leader for your W...and for your children? What kind of man do you want your D to M some day? These are things to think about and to act upon.
Do not ask her any of those questions you listed. Stop it! Stop bringing up R talks. Your job is to show a side of yourself that spells self-confidence and keeping a PMA. You need to GAL so you will be more interesting....not b/c she says so. Stop asking her how she feels about things. If she decides to talk about the R, then you just listen. You do not argue with her! If you don't agree with what she says, then tell her you're sorry she feels that way. Keep it simple.
The WAW in an A will turn the tables and make the LBH think she's afraid of him, or that he's the one who left her a long time ago, or everything is his fault. Do you know the truth? Do you really, or have you allowed her to dictate to you what you're suppose to believe?
Stop telling her that you won't have her to leave. Don't tell her thatyou won't leave. Don't tell her that you'll pay her child support!
Listen, the only way most WAW's get their eyes open is to actually start suffering something due to their unfaithfulness. All you're doing is promising her that you will continue to provide for her. The best thing for you is just keep your mouth closed for a while. If she asks questions then tell her you'll have to check with your lawyer. If you don't want to say that, then tell her you will have to give it some thought.
Sandi2
You are right, I am scared. I am scared that she has not ended her EA and just lied to me again. I am scared that she will hate me for forcing her to make a decision right now when she is not sure of what will happen to her if she has to leave. I am scared of not being able to care for my children by myself. She says our problems are not related to this other person.
This is how I have been tried to show leadership and that I have changed.
I am taking an active role in caring for the kids on the weekends and some week nights. I am fixing things around the house and getting things organized and cleaned up.
I do not know how to make her start suffering due to her unfaithfulness.
I am not telling her that I love her, I am not having any physical contact with her and I am trying really hard not to cry when she can see me.
I know that I have to take the initiative, but other than going to MC on Dec 1, I do not know what else to do.
Not talking about R will be easy because I dread it too now.
Do I ask her if she ended EA yet? Should I act as if I care?
I am talking to her tonight. We talked briefly on the phone this morning. She is "still in love" with OM. I listened to what I have heard now many times from her. I could almost recite it by now.
I understand how you can "almost recite it by now".. My circumstance isn't the same, except for my W wanting to make our separation "legal"(divorce), but I listen, and listen, and understand her. But when will our spouses listen back?
Sorry for your heartbreak- I feel it too.
BI - We understand that you are hurting, but if you are going ignore the advice given here then why even post?
You have been advised to stop contacting her. Stop pleading with her. Stop asking her about her R with OM. Do you enjoy being kicked in the balls?
Listen to what Sandi and others have said. She doesnt RESPECT you. I would go as far as saying she probably tells her BF that you are weak and make her sick. Why fight for a person like this? It's time that you stand up for yourself and your family. What would you do if your daughter or son was being treated like this by somebody? Im guessing we'd see a different MAN.
I know this is hard, but you need to take a stand for YOU and your FAMILY. Go see an attorney asap. Seperate your finances. Cut her off. SHow her you will not be DISRESPECTED like this. Until you do she will not even consider a future with you.
Hold the line. PMA
PMA:
If I separate the finances, she will leave and move to Idaho with her aunt.
I know that I can stop her from moving the kids out of state but then she either moves away by herself, leaving the kids behind, or she stays here with no means of survival and kids will suffer because they will be away from their mother or living with her in dire straits.
Calling a lawyer at this point is a possibility, but then I have to decide if I tell her before or afterward and what her reaction will be in either case. I do not even know what that would accomplish other than starting the war.
I talked to my wife again yesterday. I realized that my posts are biased and paint me as the victim of a sick person when that is not entirely truth. We are both victims of each other. She does not take responsibility for her decisions and frankly until recently, neither have I. In talking to her, I realized how much I have to change for myself, for my children for her, and for the marriage to work. Reading other threads here, has helped a lot as well. Yes, she is a WAW and does not realize this yet, but I made it very easy for her to stray and make decisions that were not good for our marriage, our children, and ultimately herself. I realized how stubborn I have been and how reluctant to look at my self first when I should have listened to her criticism and how my behavior was influencing her and our children.
Broken
I realized that my posts are biased and paint me as the victim of a sick person when that is not entirely truth.
Pretty normal for the LBS to do this buddy.
We are both victims of each other
Okay question for YOU....pick a door below:
Door # 1 - live your life as a victim, constantly beating yourself up for you PAST mistakes OR
Door # 2 - Accept your past mistake and CHANGE YOUR FUTURE!
Which, door would you pick?
She does not take responsibility for her decisions and frankly until recently, neither have I
Can you control what she takes responsibility for?
In talking to her, I realized how much I have to change for myself, for my children for her, and for the marriage to work.
Change for YOU - and you will never regret this NOR will you fail. Change for someone else and you will always be trying to [b]make{/b] someone see or feel something that YOU cannot control.
I realized how stubborn I have been and how reluctant to look at my self first
And now that you know this what are you going to do about it.
Honestly, ya did what you knew how to do - ya know better know, so just do better.
DB 101 - change YOU!
Dude, make this about you!
Eric
Thanks Eric,
I listed myself first as my motivation for change but truly, if I was the only reason, I would feel selfish.
My children need me to change because they learn their behavior from me and my wife (we really do not have extended family)and for that reason, she needs to change as well. She will not change unless I change first and become a role model, so that is why she is listed. I know that her changing in a positive way does not follow from me doing so but I believe is a necessary condition.
I am the one that has to get the ball rolling.
If we did not have children together, I do not see a reason why I should care about her future life but we do, and she will always be the mother of my children.
Thanks Eric,
I listed myself first as my motivation for change but truly, if I was the only reason, I would feel selfish.
My children need me to change because they learn their behavior from me and my wife (we really do not have extended family)and for that reason, she needs to change as well. She will not change unless I change first and become a role model, so that is why she is listed. I know that her changing in a positive way does not follow from me doing so but I believe is a necessary condition.
BI.....
Dude, I agree with some of what you are sayin here..
Change is something you do for yourself though.
You have to want, it for it to stick around ....
IF you decide to make those changes for anyone else ( including the children) , then you are selling yourself short of what you are truly capable of.
And although you want to change, you are only gonna change enough to want your wife to come back....
These changes you make, they have to be real, they have to make sense, and the have to be for you....and you alone.
You can be a light for your wife to see through her fog, but you can't be her role model....that would be kinda arrogant.
What kind of goals do you have right now ?
Right now I want to sort what is worth keeping of the old me and what needs to change drastically. Self knowledge is a goal of mine that I have neglected in the past. I know that sometimes I sound arrogant and I have to explore how much of that is true. One thing I have identified in me is that I have an irrational fear of rejection. I always have and I can't quite explain why. I causes me to reject people before they have a chance to reject me. I am afraid to give because I can't handle the rejection of my gift. I am afraid to ask for what I want or to even identify what I want because I can't take "no" for an answer. If I were to generalize my fear I would say that it is really fear of failure.
And what I am slowly realizing is that the only thing to fear is fear itself (yes, I know Roosevelt).
So another of my goals is to overcome my irrational fears
I also need to manage my ADD and OCD effectively. Depression is temporary for me, not chronic, but it bothers me a little bit that it goes away with the Zoloft without much effort on my part.
Another goal that is part of my GAL is to reconnect with my old friends and make new ones, but the rejection thing is a big obstacle here.
Another goal that is part of my GAL is to reconnect with my old friends and make new ones, but the rejection thing is a big obstacle here.
That might be a good place to start on confronting your fear of rejection. The old ones first, making new friends is also about finding the opportunity to do so. Its not quite as simple as going up to someone and saying, "Hey you're my new friend!"
: )
I'd be more worried about you if that person agreed.
no, what I think I will do is start finding people with common interests to mine and make friends in that environment.
Hmmm...that's a good idea. So is connecting with old friends...for the comfort level. Why not do both?
The old friend thing is a little bit tricky for me, because I do not want to end up in the same place as WAW. Before the bomb was dropped, I did not have a face book page and now I do. Old girlfriends and high school crushes are starting to show up and I am in a vulnerable position right now. My wife says hurtful things to me every other day now and I am the one avoiding R conversations because of it. Most of them are not factually true but I know confronting her now with facts is futile. I have done it though and all she will do is shift the focus to something else and minimize the importance of it. She does this with time lines a lot because she does not want to acknowledge (even to herself) that her relationship with OM did not "just happened" and that it started before she dropped the bomb on me.
Those are choices that YOU make...
You could have 10,000 women hit on you in one night...
It is your choices that will matter.
This isn't tit-for-tat , you kick my dog, I'll kick your cat either...
Your choices will define you.
And you get to make those.
Should I get her a christmas present?
If so what could be appropriate?
Any ideas?
We are going to MC tomorrow and I do not even know what to tell the counselor. She is now thinking of triathlon. Good for her.
Did not register for her credential class.
I think a Christmas gift or not is not really a priority right now. In light of your current situation, unless failing to give her tokens of affection was a problem area, it doesn't make much sense to me. How about a simple Christmas card saying "Merry Christmas" if you feel you must do something?
I was glad to see your post about your OWN issues. With all the many things you mentioned in other posts, what stood out to me was that you probably were not the easiest person to live with, and probably an even more difficult person to stay madly in love with.
I don't say that to be harsh, but to agree with you that YOU have work to do on YOU, and this marriage crisis is one that BOTH of you made.
Hopefully this will allow you to find some empathy for her current state. Infidelity is never justified however, so don't go overboard.
A stalemate never lasts, though they can seem to drag on forever. If you can stay the course, stay true to yourself, work on YOUR issues, and keep the relationship discussions to an absolute minimum, at some point SHE will break the stalemate.
I know you don't want the status quo, but neither does she. And nothing you do is going to force her into a decision, even if you ask her to make one.
Make peace in the home. Make the environment one that stays good for the children - it is the two of you who have the issues after all.
Fianlly, if you TRULY fear that she might up and leave with the kids and the bank account, do not hesitate to establish some legal protection. But don't do this just to punish her. You do it because you honestly are afraid that she might decide to clean you out and take off with the kids. I cannot tell from your posts if this is a legitimate fear or a wild thought on your part.
Blessings,
Bill
Bill,
Thanks a lot for your post. It was very helpful. She is free to take all the money. I really do not care about it anymore. I was very tight with it before so that is a 180 for me, also, if I am not going to have a family, I really do not need it. Also if she decides to stay with me, I want it to be an emotional decision, not an economic one (OM is bankrupt).
Failing to give her tokens of affection was a problem area in the sense that I gave her things I thought she needed or should want instead of the things she asked for.
MC was canceled by the counselor today so we are now doing it on Monday. One problem I have is that I do not know what she wants out of it. Some times she acts as if we are still married but most of the time she acts as if she is living with an enemy that she can not trust but must deal with. She cooks for me, made me a pie for Thanksgiving (out of guilt I think) and wants me to go visit my mother and re-establish my relationships with my side of the family. She says she wants me to be happy and that she worries about what I might do if she leaves but insist that my happiness can not be tied to her staying in a relationship that no longer works for her.
She says she wants me to be happy and that she worries about what I might do if she leaves but insist that my happiness can not be tied to her staying in a relationship that no longer works for her.
She's absolutely right about the part in bold underline.
You cannot tie your ability to be happy to her. She may bring joy to your life. She may mean a tremendous amount to you. But YOU are the only one who can determine your happiness.
Trust me that the rest of what she has said is ever so typical of a spouse who has mentally checked out of the relationship and is simply biding their time.
You can't respond to that stuff. If she expresses things about you that she thought were flaws, you owe it to yourself to look within and determine whether or not her comment has merit.
But leave all the rationalization talk alone and strike it from your mind.
Serial killers rationalize why they do what they do.
Tyrannical despots rationalize why they do what they do.
Politicians rationalize why they do what they do.
Your wife is no different in this respect - she has chosen a course of action that you and many others consider wrong, and so she must rationalize it. To try to argue the merits of her thoughts, or even to give them weight in your own mind is a sure step towards madness.
Work on you. Find your balance. Become strong and confident again. You're older and wiser. You've learned valuable lessons. And you have a great opportunity right now for a bit of a mid-life correction.
Make the most of it.
Strength and honor.
Blessings,
Bill
Well, we could not wait until MC session on Monday and had at it last night until 2am and this morning from 7 to 8:30. For the first time I ended the R conversation. Tonight its supposed to continue, I am supposed to confirm that the EA turned into a PA on Labor Day Weekend.
She is telling me now that she is on the fence about me and OM and I said that I was not going to pressure her into making a decision now but whatever that decision turns out to be, It can not include me and OM both in her life. I also said that until that happens I can not be emotionally available to her. She proceeded to tell me how miserable all those years were to her and how much I hurt her and that what I was asking for was not fair to her because OM gave her emotional support when she could not get it from me. She said I had been cruel and treated her like garbage, like she did not matter in my life. I responded that if she still thought all that, then her choice should be very clear to her and to me.
I said I could not change the past and that the way I remember events in our marriage was very different from what I was hearing from her now and that it was very painful to hear.
I said that every day that she kept any contact with OM was insulting and disrespectful to me and actions is the only way I would know that she was really sorry for what she did; not words.
Who knows how this will end but I think this will be painful to me until the day I die. I said I was sorry for the way I had been in our marriage and that actions would show that, not words.
Well, Its been a while. I have been here but mostly reading other people's stories. We have our third MC session on Monday and I have no idea what we are going to talk about. It's been five and a half months and I still cry every day. I do not in front of her anymore though. After the first MC session, she committed to end the R with OM but offered not way to confirm it so I do not know if it actually ended. She is still distant. I sleep on the sofa and she sleeps in the bedroom (my choice, I feel trapped in the bedroom and there are too many memories there). I am swimming in the mornings from 6 to 7 almost every day, so I am getting in shape very quickly. She registered for her class to get her teaching credential. I think right now she is just biding her time to finish that and get a job so she can finally leave without taking the kids out of state.
Getting a job as a teacher these days is kind of hard so she is also doing Tupperware and playing the lottery. Given the odds of any of those things panning out(Tupperware is a money pit and now they are into MLM), it looks to me that we will be living together for a long time. I am happy that I get the time with the kids but interacting with her everyday is very painful. She now drinks beer on a daily basis (in the evening when I am home) and sometimes gin and tonic, Irish Cream Or Wine on top of that.
Since she started running she is also into CytoMax, FRS energy drinks and all sorts of sports supplements on top of the medication she regularly takes for insulin resistance (a form of type 2 diabetes) and the daily morning and afternoon coffee and diet cokes. She still has no awareness of how much all this stuff costs and how potentially detrimental these things are for her health but I can't even have a conversation with her about this. I could not before the bomb anyway. She had a panic attack last week while running, because of a runaway heart beat and that made her consider a heart monitor. She probably would have gotten one years ago if I had not suggested that to her. That is why now I keep my mouth shut.
I does not look like she is wanting a divorce anymore or in anyway limit my access to the children as long as she is around.
She wants to take a long vacation in the Summer but wants the children to stay with her dad and brother instead of me because "I should not miss work". I think is because she is afraid that I will take them away with me to Europe and she will never see them again, not that I have ever threaten to do that, but it is in the realm of possibility.