About a year ago, I became addicted to chatting online, especially with strangers, particularly men. It got to the point that I opened a secret Facebook account, started playing games online, and started chatting with people I was “meeting” thru the games. Conversation would turn to my marriage, and how I felt I wasn’t getting the attention I wanted/deserved from my husband.
I made many of these friends. Things escalated. Suddenly I had all these secret “friends” in my life. The conversation was not always wholesome, in fact, sometimes it was quite damning. In some cases I became emotionally involved. I started chatting with some of them on Skype. Sometimes video chat was used. I said nasty things about my husband that weren’t true, but I liked all the attention I was getting. I did nasty things that I can’t bare to put into words on a public forum.
My husband became suspicious. Asked who I was staying up late chatting with on Skype. I lied and said I was talking to my sister. He did some detective work and discovered the truth. Evidently for some weeks he was monitoring my online socializing without my knowing. Like I said, the things I said and did on there were damning. I had no idea he knew anything was going on.
Two weeks ago, when I came home from work, he confronted me in the driveway. He had already moved his things out. The only thing he said to me was “You can’t do this and be with me. I’m leaving. You’ll be served in a few days. And served I was. During the next few days, I left desperate voicemails, asking him to go to therapy, telling him I loved him, etc.
We have had one face to face conversation sine he left. He didn’t want to be alone with me, so he asked my sister to supervise. During that conversation, at the advice of my therapist, I said almost nothing. I just listened. He only wanted to speak about divorce and what he wanted and did not want in the divorce. I only said, that I needed time to think about it, and I hope we could reconcile and be stronger than ever. He says it’s not an option. I did say I was sorry, which he doesn’t believe.
I would do anything to get him back. I’m reading the 7 steps. I never got involved with anyone physically. I know that doesn’t really matter. He feels betrayed, angry, etc. He says we can’t get back together because he doesn’t want me to be the victim of his anger. I’ve stopped all contact with my old “friends”. Changed my phone number so no one could contact me that shouldn’t contact me.
My therapist says he made his decision and I need to respect that and let him go, but honestly, I can’t imagine my life without him. I do love him. I’ve made HUGE mistakes. I would do ANYTHING to fix it. He could smash my computer with a sledgehammer and password protect everything else so I can’t access his computer, etc. Give up my cell phone. Anything, and I do mean that. Please help.
Two weeks ago, when I came home from work, he confronted me in the driveway. He had already moved his things out. The only thing he said to me was “You can’t do this and be with me. I’m leaving. You’ll be served in a few days. And served I was. During the next few days, I left desperate voicemails, asking him to go to therapy, telling him I loved him, etc.
We have had one face to face conversation sine he left. He didn’t want to be alone with me, so he asked my sister to supervise. During that conversation, at the advice of my therapist, I said almost nothing. I just listened. He only wanted to speak about divorce and what he wanted and did not want in the divorce. I only said, that I needed time to think about it, and I hope we could reconcile and be stronger than ever. He says it’s not an option. I did say I was sorry, which he doesn’t believe.
I would do anything to get him back. I’m reading the 7 steps. I never got involved with anyone physically. I know that doesn’t really matter. He feels betrayed, angry, etc. He says we can’t get back together because he doesn’t want me to be the victim of his anger. I’ve stopped all contact with my old “friends”. Changed my phone number so no one could contact me that shouldn’t contact me.
My therapist says he made his decision and I need to respect that and let him go, but honestly, I can’t imagine my life without him. I do love him. I’ve made HUGE mistakes. I would do ANYTHING to fix it. He could smash my computer with a sledgehammer and password protect everything else so I can’t access his computer, etc. Give up my cell phone. Anything, and I do mean that. Please help.
SoAsh,
I will have some advice for you in another post, but this needs to be said:
Everyone needs to look at the above. It's funny;
I thought hardline ultimatums weren't supposed to work? 
Would only drive the cheating spouse toward their OM/OW??
Hmmmmm.
Robx and Gucci say it all the time, but no one listens.
Betrayed spouses need to study the dynamics of the wayward spouses. It's only when the BS becomes the wayward/walkaway, that the dynamic changes. By saying "this isn't working for me anymore," suddenly the other spouse will do ANYTHING to try to reconcile and make the marriage work!!!
Sorry for the semi-hijack, but this needed to be pointed out. I'll try to post something to you shortly, SoAsh. I'm sorry for your pain, and I give you props for having the guts to post here, and to address your issues.
Puppy
My therapist says he made his decision and I need to respect that and let him go
If he saw what you were doing and saying then he felt your disrespect. Respect is a big deal for men and making them feel loved by their woman. You might have crossed a boundary with your H that is a deal-breaker. You need to get your issues resolved and try showing repsect thru your actions.
Your therapist is right don't pursue him. Learn what it means to "let go." Sorry you are here, learn from this experience to become a better person for yourself.
Yes, but, Puppy, it's not as though she has a particular OM that she's built up a fantasy about in her head, who she has decided will solve all the problems in her M. That's a HUGE difference, from what I've read. If she was almost ready to leave herself, her H's reaction might easily have pushed her to go. That's why I don't like to see hard-and-fast rules for everybody.
Sorry to interrupt, So Ashamed. Some of the best, including Coach and Puppy, have come to help already--take to heart what they have to say, and you will begin to grow in ways that will ultimately make you feel much better about yourself.
I should add, he is out of town right now for work. I have no idea where he lives, except it's a furnished apartment he's renting month to month, somewhere nearby. He agreed to a phone conversation when he gets back in town. Any advice? I'm still reading the middle of the chapter with the first "step".
Hi So Ashamed - I hope sandi2 comes here to post. She went through almost exactly what you did, and has come out the other side with her marriage intact.
Hi So Ashamed - I hope sandi2 comes here to post. She went through almost exactly what you did, and has come out the other side with her marriage intact.
I hope she does too. Thanks Futureunknown. I could use a miracle right now.
If she has posted about her experience, could you direct me to her posts? Please and thanks.
Hi SOA - Welcome. Glad you came here. Thank you for posting your story. A lot of members will appreciate your perspective.
Unfortunately, when you play with fire you eventually get burned.
He had ever right to react and be upset. I can definitely relate to the feelings of betrayal, mistrust, etc. BUT if you love someone enough you will DO ANYTHING to WORK it out. That's the part that is not adding up.
Have you guys been unhappy for awhile? Why was he so quick to walk?? From my perspective it looks like he has been checking out for awhile. Or he might have been cheating on you as well. Unless you are dead emotionally these feelings cant be turned off overnight. Once again. He was hurt, felt betrayed, blah but if your partner is remorseful and is willing to do THE WORK to REPAIR then it's a whole different ball game then what the rest of us members dealt with.
My advice is to stop PURSUING, stand your ground, tell him you have ALREADY APOLOGIZED for what you did BUT it takes 2 to get to the point where you're at. Show strength. Show respect. Dont kiss his a$$. You made a mistake BUT have owned up to it which is more then a lot of people are willing to do.
Stay strong. PMA
He had ever right to react and be upset. I can definitely relate to the feelings of betrayal, mistrust, etc. BUT if you love someone enough you will DO ANYTHING to WORK it out. That's the part that is not adding up.
Have you guys been unhappy for awhile? Why was he so quick to walk?? From my perspective it looks like he has been checking out for awhile. Or he might have been cheating on you as well. Unless you are dead emotionally these feelings cant be turned off overnight. Once again. He was hurt, felt betrayed, blah but if your partner is remorseful and is willing to do THE WORK to REPAIR then it's a whole different ball game then what the rest of us members dealt with.
My advice is to stop PURSUING, stand your ground, tell him you have ALREADY APOLOGIZED for what you did BUT it takes 2 to get to the point where you're at. Show strength. Show respect. Dont kiss his a$$. You made a mistake BUT have owned up to it which is more then a lot of people are willing to do.
Stay strong. PMA
What is not adding up? That I didn't think my mistake would ruin my marriage and now I have deepest regret that things have gotten so bad? I'm just looking for clarification.
Thank you for your advice. I don't know why he was so quick to leave. Probably because he really loved be and I betrayed him, said hurtful/hateful things, although I have no hate for him at all. I was his first love. We're both in our early 30's, married for 7 years. I wish he had tried to talk to me, but I guess by asking who I was talking to on Skype, that was his "trying". I can't fault him for leaving, but I want to fix this, more than anything. He did tell my sister that he has no love left for me. I just can't believe that. You can't just turn it off, even if you're really hurt, can you? I know for a fact he wasn't cheating. He's the most moral man I've ever met.
Thank you for your advice. I'm listening with open ears and a hopeful heart.
I understand how you feel and I definitely understand how your H must have felt to read those message BUT again, he did not read detailed messages about you screwing some other guy like many of us on this board have endured.
Either he was a time-bomb waiting to explode from past issues or he has been planning this for awhile and saw his opportunity. I'm just saying from my years of experience dealing with these type of stories. It is a rare occurence for a spouse to just walk without having another gameplan lined up.
What aren't you telling us? What caused you to need your escape? What issues have you BOTH been dealing with??
Help me understand... Regardless you need to calm down and STOP the BEGGING and PLEADING. It is very WEAK. No one is attracted to this behavior especially someone that has the WAS mentality. Stop the contact. You have apologized and are open to talking when he is ready. In the meantime, stop beating yourself up. Go dark and keep doing things for YOU. Show him that you will survive with or w/o him.
Do you guys fight a lot? Do you nag or have anger issues?
Big pieces of this puzzle are missing. Once again. I get the anger, hurt, betrayal thing that he is feeling. I felt that way as well but I loved my spouse and would have done anything to fight for us. Some people aren't fighters. They are runners. The old "fight or flight" instincts fromt he animal kingdom. If he is a runner then he would have displayed these traits before.
Any kids??
PMA
What caused you to need your escape?
Hi SOA, glad you're here as well. I guess reading your story, this was my first question. I think before you should be worrying about how to get him back, perhaps you need to address the issues that led you to want to start connecting with other men. Can you tell us more about that? How you were feeling in the M? Was there fighting? Distance? Disconnect?
No kids. I guess what I'm not telling you is that recently there was one man in particular that got a lot of my attention. I have said the L word to him, although we never talked about meeting. I think we were both comfortable with the level of our so called relationship. He didn't want to be a home wrecker, and I didn't want to wreck my home. I chatted about him with other "friends" that I had made online. Told other people that I loved him. Said in other conversations online to "friends", that I know my husband read, that I wish I could marry "so-and-so" but that means I would need to get a divorce first. It as all my secret little fantasy world. I never wanted to make it my reality. I just liked the attention and excitement it brought.
My husband and I have always been pretty compatible. We rarely fought. I definitely had my frustrations. I felt like we weren't physical often enough. I started assuming he wasn't attracted to me.
What caused you to need your escape?
Hi SOA, glad you're here as well. I guess reading your story, this was my first question. I think before you should be worrying about how to get him back, perhaps you need to address the issues that led you to want to start connecting with other men. Can you tell us more about that? How you were feeling in the M? Was there fighting? Distance? Disconnect?
I felt disconnected. Unnoticed. Taken for granted? But I was taking him for granted too....obviously.
Do you guys fight a lot? Do you nag or have anger issues?
PMA
I can definitely be a nag. I'm learning from reading the 7 steps why that doesn't work. I nagged him about things he left lying around, or things he didn't do around the house that I thought he should. I wish I'd read Divorce Remedy BEFORE I got married. I feel like I've been doing everything wrong.
Another thought...a few weeks ago, or so, I was chatting to a "friend" online, and said something to the effect of "If I had a therapist, I wouldn't need to talk to all these strangers online". I did try to stop what I was doing a few times in the past year since I've been up to no good, but I was afraid to tell my husband and ask for his help, because I didn't want to hurt him or lose him. I always ended up falling back into the same trap though.
I felt disconnected. Unnoticed. Taken for granted? But I was taking him for granted too....obviously.
Oh SOA, I do feel for you. That's a very lonely place to be. Those are the feelings I had too, when I first came to this board. Did you ever share those feelings with your H?
I felt disconnected. Unnoticed. Taken for granted? But I was taking him for granted too....obviously.
Oh SOA, I do feel for you. That's a very lonely place to be. Those are the feelings I had too, when I first came to this board. Did you ever share those feelings with your H?
We never had a real conversation about it. I was always afraid of hurting his feelings and driving him away. I did occasionally ask, "why don't we ever have sex?" But I didn't push it.
Since we've never had a conversation about our problem...do I write a letter? If so, what do I say?
SOA, I just want to say your experience is similar to mine in that when the separation occurred, my H moved on pretty fast.
Therefore, I am going to agree with the PMA who said he probably already had one foot out the door to move on so quickly....
Either he was a time-bomb waiting to explode from past issues or he has been planning this for awhile and saw his opportunity. I'm just saying from my years of experience dealing with these type of stories. It is a rare occurence for a spouse to just walk without having another gameplan lined up.
Have you guys been unhappy for awhile? Why was he so quick to walk?? From my perspective it looks like he has been checking out for awhile. Or he might have been cheating on you as well.
We never had a real conversation about it. I was always afraid of hurting his feelings and driving him away. I did occasionally ask, "why don't we ever have sex?" But I didn't push it.
Yes, I think I can relate. That's where I was at too. But I think that rather than rushing into this...
Since we've never had a conversation about our problem...do I write a letter? If so, what do I say?
Could I suggest that you take a bit of a breath. I think there's some thing you may want to explore in yourself before you start focussing on your H and trying to get him back?
One question that comes to mind is - why was it more important for you to not hurt his feelings, than to get your feelings of being disconnected, 'unnoticed' and 'taken for granted' addressed? Why did protecting his feelings come before caring for you own?
SOA, I just want to say your experience is similar to mine in that when the separation occurred, my H moved on pretty fast.
Therefore, I am going to agree with the PMA who said he probably already had one foot out the door to move on so quickly....
Either he was a time-bomb waiting to explode from past issues or he has been planning this for awhile and saw his opportunity. I'm just saying from my years of experience dealing with these type of stories. It is a rare occurence for a spouse to just walk without having another gameplan lined up.
Have you guys been unhappy for awhile? Why was he so quick to walk?? From my perspective it looks like he has been checking out for awhile. Or he might have been cheating on you as well.
Yeah, actually, I broke his trust once early in our marriage. Nothing to do with cheating on him, but I lied about my past. He forgave me. He probably has decided he didn't want to give me a 3rd chance to hurt him.
SOA - We all make mistakes. Learning and growing from them is what counts.
Unless H is hiding something or someone from you I think it's a matter of time before he can come to his senses. I definitely see hope.
Again, my advice, goes along what others are saying. Stop thinking/worrying about H. Start focusing on you and your NEEDS/WANTS. What makes you happy? You dont need a therapist to do some internal searching. They just help point you in the right direction.
Why would you want someone that doesnt want you or is so quick to leave you??? What does that say about your self-esteen??
Use this time to become the best YOU YOU can be. Dont join the army or anything
just use this time to reflect on what makes you happy. It's so easy to get caught up in the "cat and mouse" chase game that you forget why your even chasing. STOP!! Relax. Nothing is going to happen for months if YOU dont want it to. The D process can takes years if the other party doesnt want it.
Here's the list that everyone is given when they first come to this site. Read and reflect on each item. Then APPLY it. NO CONTACT. You need to regain CONTROL and STRENGTH by going dark and GAL/PMA
Godspeed.
1.Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or implore! This turns the spouse completely off!
2. No frequent phone calls to spouse.......let him/her be the one to call you. Then don't try to hang on to your spouse through conversation.....instead, you say good-bye first.
3. Do not point out good points in marriage or try to get him/her to read marriage books, look at your M pictures, etc. Especially, do not get him/her to read the DB/DR book. That is for you only!
4. Do not follow your spouse around the house like a puppy dog trying to get his/her time and attention.
5. Do not encourage talk about the future. They don't want to think about a future with you at the moment, so stay clear of that subject.
6. Do not ask for help from family members or friends. Don't discuss private matters with them that would upset your spouse.
7. Do not ask for reassurances (That is showing neediness and
being clingy.) Show self-respect and self confidence.
8. Do not buy gifts to make "brownie points". (Can't buy his/her love and affection.)
9. Do not schedule dates together at this point. (That is pursuing.) Save for later when the R is much better.
10.Do not spy on spouse by checking emails, phone bills, etc. (Not good for you and will make matters worse.)
11.Do not say "I Love You" (It is being "pushy" and trying to
make your spouse say it back to you......he/she will despise you for it.)
12.Act "as if" you are moving on with your life with or without them and that you are going to be okay. Keep a good attitude.
13.Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive at all times! In other words, be the best you can be and look the best you can look at all times. Even when wearing jeans and T-shirt, wear good cologne, b/c it does cause the spouse to take notice.
14.Don't sit around waiting on your spouse to see what kind of mood he/she is in or what he/she is going to do or say – get busy, think of things to do. Go to church, go out with friends, etc. in order to get a life for yourself without waiting on your wife/husband.....but it is okay to invite them, just don't act as if it will change your plans if they do or don't go.
15.When at home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation---then don't, wait for him/her) then, be rather scarce or with your words, but don't sound rude or too short like you are mad. If your spouse asks what's wrong....just say "nothing" and have a pleasant expression on your face. Keep it short and simple. Don't get into an argument! Stay polite and don’ t act like you are pouting. Use poise and class. This does not mean to act like you aren’t speaking, but don’t be overly talkative.
16.If you are in the habit of asking your spouse his/her
whereabouts, ASK THEM NOTHING!! No matter what time he/she comes home! You are giving them space and asking no questions! You enjoy your time with your kids, friends, etc. Remember, you are getting a life, also.
17.You need to make your partner think that you have had an
awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to
move on with your life, with or without your spouse.
18.Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull back and wait
to see if spouse notices and, more important, realize what he/she will be missing. (But never ask him/her if he/she has noticed any changes!!) This is important! If you do, then you have blown it.
19.No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. This can confuse some of them b/c it is not what they expected. Show your spouse someone he/she would want to be around all the time, somebody that can be attractive and fun to be with. That somebody is you! Don't overkill in your attempts to outshine another person your spouse may be having an A with (if there is OP in the picture) to the point of looking like your attempts are "fake" b/c your spouse will see through all of that.
20.All questions about marriage should be put on hold, until
your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while)so this takes patient on your behalf.
21.Never lose your cool! Don't let your spouse trap you into a fight. Don't take her/his bait.....leave the room or the house for a while, if you have to, in order to avoid a fight.
22.Don't be overly enthusiastic, don't over-kill; in anything you do b/c it will come across as fake.
23.Do not argue about how your spouse feels about something (it only makes his/her feelings more negative.) Only they know how they feel!
24.Be patient......very, very patient. Give your spouse space and time. When you pull back, it will draw them towards you. It feels opposite of what you want to do, but it works!
25.Listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you. Look them in the eyes when they talk to you. Do not interrupt them when they are speaking and stop what you may be working on to look at them when they talk. This shows them that you really care about what they are saying.
26.Learn to back off, shut up and walk away when you want to
speak out (or scream and yell).
27.Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all
the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil). This is for your health's sake.
28.Be strong and confident and learn to speak softly. Read self
help books, inspirational books or listen to tapes. They are for you only.
29.Know that if you can do 180's, your smallest CONSISTENT
actions will be noticed much more than any words you can say
or write.
30.Do not be openly show that you are "desperate" or "needy" even when you are hurting more than ever and truly feel desperate and needy. This is a large turn-off for your spouse.
31.Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse, instead, focus on them.
32.Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 50% of what
you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives because
he/she is hurting and scared.
33.Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel.
34.Do not ask your spouse if he/she has noticed your changes. Those changes are for you and for the rest of your life...with or without your spouse. If it is just to get your spouse back...they won't last and the same problems will return.
35.Do not send several TM's or emails throughout the day unless absolutely necessary.
36. It is best to stay away from the bar scenes where other problems easily arise.
37. Do not backslide from your hard earned changes.
Last thing I'm gonna say today. He thinks we can be divorced in 4-6 weeks if I don't contest it. So I just need to follow the above rules and leave it?
Ask as many questions as u want. We r all here to help.
4-6 weeks. Possible with no kids involved. Depends on state.
Regardless, he is saying this based on how the OLD YOU has acted.
What about the NEW YOU?? The STRONG, CONFIDENT, ATTRACTIVE YOU?? That guys are lining up to date. Would he still give that YOU up??? Become the greener grass.... Start working out... Get hair did.. new sexy clothes... perfume.... join clubs.... make new friends... women have a lot more power then men do.. that's for sho...
Albert Einstein - "No problem can be solved from the same level of consciousness that created it."
Yeah it's really important you follow that advice, SOA.
This one is super duper important and conveys many of the things listed there:
17.You need to make your partner think that you have had an
awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to
move on with your life, with or without your spouse.
Your H has given you the chance to get away from the computer, get away from those "friends," and re-invent yourself to be the best person you can be. Focus on yourself, and seize it.
What about the NEW YOU?? The STRONG, CONFIDENT, ATTRACTIVE YOU?? That guys are lining up to date.
You don't think before you post, do you? I am sure that this is the last thing this guy wants : more guys stroking his wife's ego and fulfilling her fantasies. Wow.
This is an important thread. One that should be read and mimicked by many many many men and women on this site. When your spouse seeks emotional and physical "attention" from others, Set them Free. Let them go. Move on with your life and leave them to question what is really important in their lives and what they need to discover in order to love themselves and to love others.
Hanging in there, telling each other to set boundaries that you will not share your spouse with another WHILE THEY ARE LYING AND CHEATING AND SHARING THEMSELVES WITH OTHERS RIGHT IN FRONT OF YOUR FACE is not even a boundary. It is a desperate attempt to avoid the obvious.
I have read 10, 15, 20 guys on this site over the past year whose wives behaved in this same manner who are still on this site and have made zero progress in reconciling their marital problems. All the while showing "unconditional love," analyzing every word and move they make while telling each other not to believe anything they say and half of what they do, thinking their 180s and GALs are working and telling themselves their spouses behavior is just script, as their chances grow slimmer and slimmer.
This post should be inspiration to many. Remember this is all very simple. If you are to have any chance to savage this marriage you need to stop YOUR needy behaviors as soon as possible. Acting desperate or needy is probably the MOST common mistake guys make in these situations.
NEXT. Take 30, 45 - 60 days of NO CONTACT. You have been dumped. It would be ridiculous to think your wife doesn't think you love her. She knows that. That is not the reason she left you. Take a month or two to better understand what "love" is by learning how to love yourself again and to decide if this is someone you really want to be involved with.
3.
What about the NEW YOU?? The STRONG, CONFIDENT, ATTRACTIVE YOU?? That guys are lining up to date.
You don't think before you post, do you? I am sure that this is the last thing this guy wants : more guys stroking his wife's ego and fulfilling her fantasies. Wow.
This is an important thread. One that should be read and mimicked by many many many men and women on this site. When your spouse seeks emotional and physical "attention" from others, Set them Free. Let them go. Move on with your life and leave them to question what is really important in their lives and what they need to discover in order to love themselves and to love others.
Hanging in there, telling each other to set boundaries that you will not share your spouse with another WHILE THEY ARE LYING AND CHEATING AND SHARING THEMSELVES WITH OTHERS RIGHT IN FRONT OF YOUR FACE is not even a boundary. It is a desperate attempt to avoid the obvious.
I have read 10, 15, 20 guys on this site over the past year whose wives behaved in this same manner who are still on this site and have made zero progress in reconciling their marital problems. All the while showing "unconditional love," analyzing every word and move they make while telling each other not to believe anything they say and half of what they do, thinking their 180s and GALs are working and telling themselves their spouses behavior is just script, as their chances grow slimmer and slimmer.
This post should be inspiration to many. Remember this is all very simple. If you are to have any chance to savage this marriage you need to stop YOUR needy behaviors as soon as possible. Acting desperate or needy is probably the MOST common mistake guys make in these situations.
NEXT. Take 30, 45 - 60 days of NO CONTACT. You have been dumped. It would be ridiculous to think your wife doesn't think you love her. She knows that. That is not the reason she left you. Take a month or two to better understand what "love" is by learning how to love yourself again and to decide if this is someone you really want to be involved with.
3.
Steve, I'm the needy woman in this thread. Your post has me somewhat confused. Your advice sounds like it's for my husband?
OK, met with my therapist today. She told me to stop reading the "Remedy" and learn to accept that my husband is divorcing me. She told me to start packing my things. She was not as harsh as my post makes her sound, but she said I really need to focus on acceptance now. Like I said before, I don't know who to trust. I'm going to keep reading and applying the 7 steps anyway. I have read the list of 37 steps. I printed it off and I'm carrying it with me. I keep re-reading it. Thank you everyone for your advice and your take on my situation. Keep it coming. I need all the help I can get.
If your goal is to save your marriage, find a new therapist; one who's focused on saving marriages. IC is important, so you can figure out why you behave the way you do.
Let your husband go. Work on your own issues. You might have a chance with him when he's seen what he's missing.
So how do I find a therapist who will focus on saving my marriage?
Are you active in a church? I found my MC through my pastor.
Your therapist is not harsh she is Realistic.
She gave you excellent advice.
Alot of men will be reading your thread, if we helped you would you be willing to help them?
Are you active in a church? I found my MC through my pastor.
Yes, I am active in my church. Unfortunately, my church is different in that they don't send members to an outside MC. Instead they offer scriptural counsel. My husband has been advised that God hates a divorcing, but they can't make him stay married to me.
Anyhow, that brings up another issue. We attend the same church. We have been sitting on opposite sides of the church. It's a small group that meets together and we pretty much all know each other pretty well. Everyone has noticed that we aren't together. Some know that we are not living together at this time. Some know that he has filed for divorce. Everyone hugs me and tells me they love me and that they hope we can work it out. They do the same to him. These people are my friends, my family, my support group, but they are his as well. It's so hard seeing him there and not being able to sit with him, to talk to him, to hold his hand. Last night I tried my best to look my best, hold my head high, smile instead of cry, focus on the message from the minister rather than let my mind wander. Afterwards, when the hugs started, I started crying. I can't help it. I would give anything to get him back. So how do I pretend that I'm ok and getting on with my life when my friends hug me and I fall apart as a result?
Another problem is when I get an invite to go out, for instance to a festival this weekend. My friend invited me and then said...."ohhhh wait...your husband might be there". All of my friends are friends of his as well. I don't want people to feel like they are choosing sides. I don't want him to feel like he can't have support because I'm hogging our support group. Ideas? Advice?
Btw, I started taking Xanax and I promise it makes me feel worse and more depressed.
Your therapist is not harsh she is Realistic.
She gave you excellent advice.
Alot of men will be reading your thread, if we helped you would you be willing to help them?
I am willing to help. I just don't know how much help I can be.
Your therapist is not harsh she is Realistic.
She gave you excellent advice.
Alot of men will be reading your thread, if we helped you would you be willing to help them?
So does that mean I should listen to her about not reading Divorce Remedy?
Your therapist is not harsh she is Realistic.
She gave you excellent advice.
Alot of men will be reading your thread, if we helped you would you be willing to help them?
So does that mean I should listen to her about not reading Divorce Remedy?
No. She's wrong. You may have seen Coach mention the Stockdale Paradox? That's how you should approach this and your therapist should know better. Many therapists have the strange notion that although a person's feelings towards their partner can change and become negative, it's impossible for those feelings to reverse themselves again.
Stockdale Paradox:
You must retain faith that you will prevail in the end, regardless of the difficulties.
AND at the same time…
You must confront the most brutal facts of your current reality, whatever they might be.
Your therapist is not harsh she is Realistic.
She gave you excellent advice.
Alot of men will be reading your thread, if we helped you would you be willing to help them?
So does that mean I should listen to her about not reading Divorce Remedy?
alot of people on this site will type in capital letters when asked if someone should give the BS a copy of DB, "Don't let them (your WAS) read it. It's like giving away your play book."
Bah. It doesn't matter. Read. Read alot. It's all very intuitive. Probably nothing you don't already know. In fact, I was reading it again last night. I read about Randy the 29 year old labourer and Interrupting Destructive Habits.
Let's consider "More of the Same."
"When People continue doing the same old thing to solve a problem that doesn't work, the situation will never improve."
Does this seem to fit? When you weren't geting the attention you wanted from your husband, you became desperate and sought attention online. You are not getting the attention you want from your husband now and in desperation you are crying in church in front of him and your friends.
You are doing "More of the Same." You are acting out in desperation. You are not learning and growing from your experience.
When your spouse seeks emotional and physical "attention" from others, Set them Free. Let them go. Move on with your life and leave them to question what is really important in their lives and what they need to discover in order to love themselves and to love others.
Hanging in there, telling each other to set boundaries that you will not share your spouse with another WHILE THEY ARE LYING AND CHEATING AND SHARING THEMSELVES WITH OTHERS RIGHT IN FRONT OF YOUR FACE is not even a boundary. It is a desperate attempt to avoid the obvious.
I have read 10, 15, 20 guys on this site over the past year whose wives behaved in this same manner who are still on this site and have made zero progress in reconciling their marital problems. All the while showing "unconditional love," analyzing every word and move they make while telling each other not to believe anything they say and half of what they do, thinking their 180s and GALs are working and telling themselves their spouses behavior is just script, as their chances grow slimmer and slimmer.
This post should be inspiration to many. Remember this is all very simple. If you are to have any chance to savage this marriage you need to stop YOUR needy behaviors as soon as possible. Acting desperate or needy is probably the MOST common mistake guys make in these situations.
NEXT. Take 30, 45 - 60 days of NO CONTACT. You have been dumped. It would be ridiculous to think your wife doesn't think you love her. She knows that. That is not the reason she left you. Take a month or two to better understand what "love" is by learning how to love yourself again and to decide if this is someone you really want to be involved with.
3.
This is a really excellent post.
Steve, I'm the needy woman in this thread. Your post has me somewhat confused. Your advice sounds like it's for my husband?
I think Steve means that your H is doing the right thing, handling this as he should in this situation.
Does this seem to fit? When you weren't geting the attention you wanted from your husband, you became desperate and sought attention online. You are not getting the attention you want from your husband now and in desperation you are crying in church in front of him and your friends.
You are doing "More of the Same." You are acting out in desperation. You are not learning and growing from your experience.
this is a excellent point. Try to put yourself in your H shoes. He's probably thinking if those people knew what went on would they be fawning all over her? It's kind of another slap in his face - disrespect. You have every right to go to and attend church when and where you want but you have to develop your sense of compassion and empathy in a healthy way.
What would be a good 180 here?
SoAsh...in my first marriage, I was a wayward wife, with a somewhat similar sitch to yours (as in, how could I have cheated like that? What was I thinking?) Remorse, regret, etc.
My sitch was a bit different in that my ex-h didn't just find out everything all at once and leave like yours. But there are enough similarities that I would like to offer you my perspective.
Here is the thing: no matter how you keep searching for some "reason" outside of yourself for why you did this, you are not going to find one. Therefore, you cannot really offer your husband any "reason" for what you did. And further...that means all you can give him for a "reason" is the truth: "I did it because I wanted to and I felt entitled."
Now that you've been caught, you want to back-peddle and take it all back...but that is pointless. That will not help you ever figure out why you felt entitled, and why you would hurt the person you were supposed to love and protect.
After my first marriage ended, I did all I could to understand affairs and why they happen, and what I found out was this: If you were the cheater, the problem was ALWAYS within YOU.
So...now that your husband has discovered the truth of what you have done, he has also seen the ugly truth of what you will "do".
You cannot change this truth. You cannot apologize, what is the point? You cannot find some other reason for it. The reason lies within you, and you must face that you did this horrible thing, and further face that your husband has every right to withdraw his love from you now.
Once you accept that, and focus inward, there may be a chance to rebuild things with your husband. But being focused on YOUR pain and how much you miss him and want him back, it NOT going to help you. You need to focus instead on this: What is it within ME that made me behave in a cruel way to the man who loved me?
Find the answer to this. None of us know the answer, as it is different for all cheaters. But here is a hint: it is not because you didn't get enough sex from your husband, and it is not because of your childhood. These were adult decisions you made, and now you must use adult reasoning to find out "who" you really are.
I feel for you. I was in your shoes at one time. We are divorced now, and my ex-h hates me. I can't take back what I did.
But...I did find out who I am, and worked to change it, so that I could be proud of myself in the future.
Ok. Now I'm confused too. Are we trying to help SOA or her husband??
I agree he has done everything perfectly and is obviously getting the desired results.
Now back to who were trying to help. As the LBS, from my experience, what SOA is supposed to do is ACCEPT her H's request for space and use this time to work on her own GAL/PMA. Which translates to working out, updating wardrobe, creating mystery, and becoming more ATTRACTIVE to HERSELF and possibly H.
Have I missed something??? Once again I thought we were helping SOA??
The best way to help SoAsh (IMO) is to help her understand the "whys" behind her cheating.
True. Sounds like a great topic for IC.
SOA - Did u have a good weekend?
Weekend was not good. Since husband put a tracking device on my computer I don't feel comfortable accessing this site from my home computer. Talked to husband Sunday morning. He says he will NEVER be with me EVER again. I meet with my divorce lawyer today. in less than an hour. My gut tells me to contest the divorce. Probably the wrong answer, but I don't know.
Could use some words of wisdom.
Only you know how best to respond to the D. If you aren't agreement with his petition, then you don't have to agree, SOA.
Your H sounds really angry and well, there's nothing you can do about how he feels.
If he gets agitated on the phone with you, remain calm and NO R talks.
Did he serve you with papers? I can't remember.
Yes, he served me. I want to fight for him and our marriage. DB says I should let him go, more or less. I'm running out of time.
Wow!! R u sure your H didnt get advice on this site. He is following DB to a tee.
Can u get another computer? Netbooks r around $300. Or you can reinstall the OS with the recovery disk.
Here's the difference in my eyes. Wanting to WORK on the M/R and setting a boundary of FULL-DISCLOSURE and NO-CONTACT is one thing. Not wanting anything to do with you and still tracking you is CONTROLLING and STALKING.
Your best bet, is to do what I originally suggested. Go dark. Take back control. Give him what he wants but dont DO any of the WORK. Just stop pursuing and if there is any hope of working this out he will have to PURSUE YOU. You cant force this or CONVINCE someone to take you back. All you can do is DETACH and MOVE ON. Show STRENGTH and in turn ATTRACTIVENESS. But my no means HELP support his EMOTIONAL decision to end the marriage.
Again. Back off. Work on you. Become ATTRACTIVE to him AGAIN. Remember he married YOU once before. And wait for him to come to you. If he doesn't then you are better off being with someone more FORGIVING and ACCEPTING.
Godspeed. PMA
If he doesn't then you are better off being with someone more FORGIVING and ACCEPTING.
Is that like saying, Find someone else who doesn't mind being cheated on?
Not sure how you concluded that.
No you're right she should just keep on pining over him while he flushes her self-esteem into the toilet.
Once again. Are we trying to HELP or HURT this woman. Unlike my X, who didnt give an F about what she did to me or her family, SOA is trying to make an effort by coming to these boards. I think that's worth something.
How about being a little less judgemental?
Here's how I see it, if he has filed for D, then his decision is pretty clear.
Some couples can and do work through infidelity but only when both partners want to. If one partner doesn't, then there is nothing the other person can do to change their feelings/decision.
SOA, if you want to, call H today and tell him that you do not want a D but that you will respect his decision for one if that's what he wants. You may also want to ask him if there is anything you can do to save M on your part or any suggestions he may have as to how you guys can work on your M. That will give you peace of mind that you told him you didn't want a D and expressed interest in reconciling. If he doesn't respond affirmatively or tells you he is done, well honey, I'm sorry, but there is nothing you can do.
Get your L today and tell him what's going on.
SOA, you do sound really remorseful about what you did and the only think I can tell you is not to repeat this again. Your H may come around but he also may not--it may have been the dagger to his heart that couldn't be removed.
Take care of yourself in the interim. Prepare for the worst and have zero expectations.
Where do I find information about going dark?
To go dark, you simply stop initiating contact with him.
I would recommend that you make sure you have at least a weekly counseling appointment, to help you get through this process. Divorce takes awhile, and it is scary and sad...you need support.
Do you also have family and friends to lean on? You need to make sure you don't spiral down into a deeper depression. You may even ask your doctor for a temporary script for anti-depression meds.
To go dark, you simply stop initiating contact with him.
I would recommend that you make sure you have at least a weekly counseling appointment, to help you get through this process. Divorce takes awhile, and it is scary and sad...you need support.
Do you also have family and friends to lean on? You need to make sure you don't spiral down into a deeper depression. You may even ask your doctor for a temporary script for anti-depression meds.
Doc gave me Xanax. Thanks to my impending divorce, I won't have insurance after Thursday. Friends are here for me. But I will be moving away if this divorce really happens. I don't like my therapist. Probably because she doesn't tell me what I want to hear. Going dark it is.
SOA, here is the "Go Dark/Last Resort Technique" (long version):
If your spouse told you it’s over, it doesn’t necessarily nail the marital coffin shut. There are still things you can do to revive your flat-lined relationship. One thing you should consider is The Last Resort Technique. The Last resort Technique is exactly what it says it is. You use it as a last resort. In theory, this technique is identical to doing a 180, but you put it to use when your situation is extreme. What do I mean by extreme? It’s imperative that you begin doing the last-resort technique immediately if:
■Your spouse has said to you in no uncertain terms that s/he wants to get a divorce and it appears as if s/he really means it. It wasn’t just said in the heat of battle.
■You and your spouse are separated physically.
■You and your spouse still live together but have very little to do with each other. You may be sleeping in separate rooms, have virtually no communication, and little or no sexual contact.
■Your spouse has filed for divorce
Although it’s true that many marriages do end in divorce, just because your marriage is really fragile right now doesn’t mean you have to become a statistic. There are many people who beat the odds. Don’t feel hopeless. I will give you specific instructions about what you should do to try to get things back on track. Although the last-resort technique doesn’t always work, it works often enough for you to be eager to give it a shot. I have worked with many clients and have received many letters, phone calls, and e-mails from people whose relationships were on the their marital death beds but were successful at turning things around by using the last-resort technique.
Step 1 – Stop the Chase
First, you need to stop doing anything that your spouse might look at as pursuing behavior. Here are some examples of behavior that I would consider “pursuing.”
■Frequent phone calls
■Begging your spouse to reconsider
■Pointing out all the good in your marriage
■Writing letters
■Following your mate around the house
■Encouraging talk about the future
■Soliciting help from family members
■Asking for reassurances
■Buying gifts/flowers
■Trying to schedule dates together
■Spying on your spouse
In addition, it is essential that you stop saying, “I love you.” I know this will be hard. But remember what I told you. Each time you say, “I love you,” you remind your spouse that the feelings of love aren’t reciprocal at the moment. My guess is that every time you say, “I love you,” your spouse says, “I know, ” or remains silent. Not exactly reassuring, is it?
Step 2 – Get a Life
I’ve worked with enough couples in this situation to know that when you feel desperate, you get clingy and depressed. You cry a lot, mope around, lose interest in things, and basically become a blob. Understand that this is perfectly normal. Losing someone you love and watching your family fall apart are definitely the most painful things you can ever experience. However, the end result – your desperateness – is not exactly attractive. In fact, it’s very unattractive. And when you consider that you are competing with your spouse’s fantasy of an ideal life without problems, or perhaps even a real-life affair, you’d better pick yourself up by the bootstraps and get yourself together! You need to act as if you are moving on with your life. Otherwise, you don’t stand a fighting chance.
You’re probably asking yourself, “How do I become more cheerful, strong, outgoing, or attractive when I feel like crap?” That’s a good question. The reason you are feeling as crappy as you are right now is because you are living through some really tough circumstances. You are reacting as any normal person would. But, and this is the big but, this isn’t the real you. You are much stronger and more confident deep down inside, aren’t you?
Stop for a minute and ask yourself, “what was it about me that attracted my spouse to me in the first place?” Think of all your wonderful traits. Well, the person your spouse fell in love with is the “real you.” You’re acting differently right now because you’re going through hell, not because you’ve changed radically as a person. Don’t forget that.
I’m not asking you to put on an act. I’m just asking you to remember who you really are. You need to stop acting as if you’re a victim because if you act the victim, you’ll become the victim. Any self-defense instructor will tell you that the worst possible thing to do in a tense situation is to signal to a potential attacker that you believe you are helpless.
Focus on making yourself a better person. If you’ve stopped going to church or synagogue, go back. If you’ve been wanting to take a new class, go for it. Think about some old friends you haven’t contacted in a while. Pick up the phone and connect. Go visit a family member. Watch a sunset. Read poetry. Count leaves. Play golf. Go fishing. Do something that will put you back in touch with you, not just because your spouse might like you more if you do, but because it’s important to feel centered and love yourself. You deserve it. I know you do.
Step 3 – Wait and Watch
One of three things happens when you use the last-resort technique.
1) Nothing.
Unfortunately, there are times when, no matter what you do, your spouse has firmly shut the door on your marriage. I tell you this because I don’t want you to think that this is a magic bullet. It isn’t. However, even if your marriage doesn’t improve when you do the last resort technique, your mental health will. I promise you. So many people have thanked me for suggesting this technique because it gave them back their dignity. They felt so lost and out of control prior to employing this method. With your self-esteem in place, you will feel more prepared to take on whatever comes your way. I know this isn’t what you want to hear, but since it is a possibility, you should know about it. Having said that, you should also know that there are two other responses you might observe in your spouse.
2) Your mate becomes curious.
S/he might start showing more interest in you, your whereabouts, and what you are up to in your life. Your spouse might even suggest you spend some time together to talk or do something enjoyable. It’s also possible that your spouse might start asking you a lot of questions about your sudden changes. If any of these things begin to happen, here’s my advice:
■Be loving in return, but not overly excited or enthusiastic.
■Accept some invitations to spend time together, but not all.
■Do not ask any questions about your future together.
■Be vague when asked questions about the changes in you. Say that you are just thinking things through.
■Continue to be upbeat.
■Do not say, “I love you”
■Resist getting into conversations about your marriage.
■Beat your spouse to the punch when it comes time to leave or separate from each other at the end of an activity. You set the tone for going your separate ways.
The general rule of thumb here is to be responsive to your partners new interest, but not too responsive. If you go overboard, your partner will get cold feet. I’ve seen it happen many times before. If you are excited that the last-resort technique is working, share it with a friend, write it in your journal, go for a run around the block, but don’t wear your emotions on your sleeve.
You need to stay interested, but cool, until you are absolutely convinced that your spouse’s renewed interest in saving your marriage has taken hold. Once you feel absolutely sure that this is so, you can test the waters by becoming more obvious about your desire to stay together. You can try discussing your future together and see what happens. If your spouse is receptive, you can continue to move forward slowly and begin to tackle the issues that drove you apart in the first place. If, on the other hand, you’re met with reluctance, backpedal just as quickly as you can. Resume your interested but distant stance until things move in a more positive direction. This might take a whole lot longer that you would like, weeks, even months. However, you must be patient. As long as your spouse seems to be somewhat interested rather than pulling away, it’s okay for your marriage to be in a holding pattern. It will try your patience, but what else do you have to do right now that could be as important as trying to save your marriage? Be patient.
3) Your spouse might have an overnight change of heart. That is, s/he might want to abandon any thought of divorce and jump right back into things as if nothing had ever happened. This third possibility is the least likely, but it does happen occasionally. I have some advice for you if this does happen. Don’t move too quickly! It’s really important to pace yourselves. If you act as if nothing had happened between you, it’s only a matter of time before your spouse will have second thoughts about the decision. You didn’t get to this place of disharmony overnight and, as much as you’d like to forget that it had ever happened, you probably won’t get things back on track overnight. So if you’ve been separated, don’t jump right into being together again. If you’ve been emotionally miles apart, don’t spend every waking minute at each other’s sides and don’t abandon all of your other interests. You have to back into your marriage cautiously. If you don’t, and really deal with the problematic issues before you recommit, you might find yourselves in the same situation a few weeks or months down the road.
As you do the Last Resort Technique, it might be useful to keep a solutions journal. Keep track of any and all changes you see in your spouse or your marriage. And remember, you should look for small signs of change. This might include a spouse who is a little more talkative than before, or one who emails you for the first time in months, even if the email is mundane in content. If you are living under the same roof, a small change might consist of your spouse spending time in the same room as you when in the past. s/he has avoided your presence.http://www.divorcebusting.com/blog/how-to-prevent-a-divorce-the-last-resort-technique/
It is not you need to "Go Dark" whatever that means but accept the "darkness" that is being shown to you.
You are who you are. You did what you did. There is nothing to be ashamed of.
You need to continue living the life you were given. Someone above said you need to figure out why you did what you did. Well Yes, you do. But don't let it overtake your life. There was a reason for it and that reason might still exist. Find happiness within yourself so that you may share it with others.
Realize, there is nothing to be ashamed of.
People and animals are sexual beings. And we all express our sexuality differently. We are not amoebas and protozoans. We do not reproduce by asexually. Ferns and some fungi have a strange sexuality that involves sperms and eggs but to our knowing they do not have the ability to express emotions. They are not in our realm of spirituality. Because you once strove to find the thrill of who you are does not make you anything other than who you are. Accept that. It is healthy. If you negate yourself to anything less, even to save a companionship, you are doing yourself more harm than good.
I read so often so many people writing how saving their marriage is the most important thing in the world. But it isn't. Knowing Yourself and learning how to love yourself so that you can understand how to love yourself takes precedents.
Know thy self. Find knowledge in that.
People and animals are sexual beings. And we all express our sexuality differently. We are not amoebas and protozoans. We do not reproduce by asexually.
Knowing Yourself and learning how to love yourself so that you can understand how to love yourself takes precedents.
Know thy self. Find knowledge in that.
For the longest time I wanted to ask.
Do you like Ayn Rand?
Realize, there is nothing to be ashamed of.
I am ashamed. I don't know if I can forgive myself or get past the guilt. I just can't believe that he doesn't want to try to save our marriage. I'm being selfish and I know that. I'm just falling apart.
I'm considering hiring a DB coach. Any suggestions?
Feeling desperate . I'm sure that's not a surprise.
Now that woman had a twisted marriage and series of adulteress affairs.
I am ashamed. I don't know if I can forgive myself or get past the guilt. I just can't believe that he doesn't want to try to save our marriage. I'm being selfish and I know that. I'm just falling apart.
Use this as motivation to become a better person; to understand yourself better.
Forgiveness can be tough. You can handle it.
SOA, have you looked into IC yet?
I think guilt is a good thing because it reminds you of how massive your cheating was. If you felt no guilt, that would be no good.
SOA, have you looked into IC yet?
I think guilt is a good thing because it reminds you of how massive your cheating was. If you felt no guilt, that would be no good.
I do have a counselor. She just keeps telling me to pick myself up by my boot straps and get on with my life. He made a choice, I'm young and pretty and will love again, blah blah blah. I feel like my life is over. I am spiraling downward in a bad way. I'm scared to death.
Your life isn't over. It only feels that way. You already know your IC is right. Though it's easier said than done, right?
Your life isn't over. It only feels that way. You already know your IC is right. Though it's easier said than done, right?
I sob every night before I go to bed. I feel like I'm slipping into a major depression. I have meltdowns several times a day. Eleven days after he left we had to put our dog to sleep. We had to take turns at the vets office because he wouldn't see me. I know I hurt him, but I can't imagine that he thinks divorce is going to take his pain away? I know I can't change his mind. I just want to so badly.
What are you grateful for?
What are your goals to improve yourself - mentally, physically, emotionally and spiritually?
Who are you going to help today?
What are you going to learn today?
What dog at the pound could use a second chance and have you as his loving owner?
What are you grateful for?
Grateful for friends who pick up the phone when I call late at night.
What are your goals to improve yourself - mentally, physically, emotionally and spiritually? Well physically, I've lost that last pesky 15 pounds since I can't eat since he's gone. Mentally, I'm seeing a counselor, doc called in a presription for an antidepressant for me, thinking about calling a hospital to see if I can check into the psych ward. Emotionally, I've gone dark, but I don't think it's helping me. Calling friends when I start to meltdown. Spiritually, I've been praying non stop, asking God for forgiveness, reading his word, asking for his will to be done, but for my husband to give me another chance.
Who are you going to help today? Help? I can't help myself. Not sure I can help anyone else.
What are you going to learn today? Not sure.
What dog at the pound could use a second chance and have you as his loving owner? I'd go to the pound and adopt for sure, but I have no $. Paying for attorney with a credit card. Husband made the money. Not me.
Not sure I can help anyone else.
say something nice to them, compliment them, smile at people.
What dog at the pound could use a second chance and have you as his loving owner? I'd go to the pound and adopt for sure, but I have no $. Paying for attorney with a credit card. Husband made the money. Not me.
Are you looking for a job? It would good for you for lots of reasons.
What are you grateful for?
I like to start with this one in my own life if I am drifting off the path.
In the space you are in, try this:
1. Make a list of 10 things you are grateful for.
2. Repeat #1 every day for the next 28 days.
What are your goals to improve yourself - mentally, physically, emotionally and spiritually?
I think that if you don't have a fitness routine, it's critical that you establish one that you do daily. I don't care if it's only taking a long walk.
Spiritually, that's deep stuff, so I say find your own path on that.
Are you looking for a job? It would good for you for lots of reasons.
I have a job. I need a better one. Things are coming at me so fast with this divorce, I haven't sent out any resumes. I will be moving out of state if we divorce. He wants the marital home and I don't have the strength to fight him on it.
Yes, I have said nice things to people today. I guess I'm doing better than I thought.
Yes, I have said nice things to people today.
How did they react?
Yes, I have said nice things to people today.
How did they react?
Kindly.
Yes, I have said nice things to people today.
How did they react?
Kindly.
So how do feel about yourself knowing that you made a positive impact on someone else's life today?
Once again. Just because you cheated doesnt mean you have to cave in on everything he wants.
Fight for your rights as a spouse.
It's interesting looking at this from the opposite perspective. Are you in a no-fault state? Then cheating, especially emotionally doesnt mean squat in court. Sometimes if kids r involved you can spin it.
How long were you married? What is your attorney telling you??
Dont forget it took both of you to get where you were at. Everyone on this site has to take responsibilty for the state of their marriage. Even if the only part they played was marrying/choosing that particular person.
Start standing up for yourself. NO ONE should be allowed to just WALK AWAY from a marriage. Especially if the other person wants to work on it. Unless your dealing with extreme issues suc as abuse, most issues can be worked out in time.
Stop letting him DEFINE YOU. You need to LOVE yourself first before he could. Use this time to WORK on that. Look into
CO-DEPENDENCE.
SoAsh...I'm going to give you an alternate reality scenario, and you simply won't believe it, but I'm going to do it anyway.
Lets say that when your husband found out what you were up to, instead of saying "its over", he blubbered and cried, and begged "How could you do this, are we over? Are you in love with someone else?"
You may think if that is how it happened, that you would have said "oh no darling, of course I don't love anyone but you, it was a silly mistake".
But instead, what you probably would have said was "Well...now that its come out (and you are properly blubbering and begging and I feel horrible but at the same time, I know I can make this into your fault), the thing is, I haven't been happy for a long time, maybe ever, and we don't have enough sex for me to be happy, and that is your fault. I'd like a separation to sort out my feelings. And again, just to make sure you know, this is all your fault, not mine (because I feel too guilty to face the fact that it might be me, not you)."
Do you see the dynamic at play here and why you are feeling the way you do ONLY BECAUSE of the way he handled it?
You don't even know your REAL feelings right now. You are just reacting to this crisis...you are not really getting in touch with your deepest truth...THAT is what your IC is trying to tell you.
I received an email from him yesterday that my attempts to get him to change his mind have made him more determined. He said I'm trying to trap him in a loveless marriage. I'm letting him go. Maybe one day he'll call me and give me a chance to apologize and consider giving me another chance but I'm not going to bother him anymore. I hope he can be happy some day again. I hope I can be happy too.
Letting go hurts more than anything, but my struggle isn't helping anything. Reading DB should have told me that. I just felt desperate and did desperate things. If I had done nothing I would have always questioned myself. I was afraid he didn't know that I do love him. Apparently he doesn't believe it or care anyway.
Letting go hurts more than anything, but my struggle isn't helping anything. Reading DB should have told me that. I just felt desperate and did desperate things. If I had done nothing I would have always questioned myself. I was afraid he didn't know that I do love him. Apparently he doesn't believe it or care anyway.
It is EXTREMELY difficult,however it is so necessary if you would like a shot to reconcile.
The sooner the better.
Hang in there, we all made mistakes along our way.
Just read up on co-dependancy. Felt like I was reading an article written by me. I will bring it up to my IC.
Do you see the dynamic at play here and why you are feeling the way you do ONLY BECAUSE of the way he handled it?
You don't even know your REAL feelings right now. You are just reacting to this crisis...you are not really getting in touch with your deepest truth...THAT is what your IC is trying to tell you.
This makes perfect sense.
What do I do with my ring?
Do what you want with it.
It means nothing at this point.
To wear or not to wear? That is the question.
Do you see the dynamic at play here and why you are feeling the way you do ONLY BECAUSE of the way he handled it?
Dance is 100% spot on.
Another question. Any other books I should be reading?
I thought I could edit my post, I must need coffee or food or something, can't find it.
Anyway, should I move this thread? If so, how do I do it? And any suggestions as to where?
I received an email from him yesterday that my attempts to get him to change his mind have made him more determined. He said I'm trying to trap him in a loveless marriage. I'm letting him go. Maybe one day he'll call me and give me a chance to apologize and consider giving me another chance but I'm not going to bother him anymore. I hope he can be happy some day again. I hope I can be happy too.
SOA - I'm still not convinced from reading your posts that a 3rd party is not involved. What he is saying is textbook for a emotionally involved spouse. He definitely sounds confident in his decision. Which usually doesn't come unless he had something else lined up.
Just my observation.
Another book I'd recommend is "getting the love you want" by Hendrix
Oh and before you repeat yourself on how "he would never... he's too good.." blahh. Doesnt matter. We have seen ministers cheating on this site before.
Just saying.... Things might not b how they appear....
PMA...I know you are just trying to be supportive, but I really don't understand your thinking here.
SoAsh had sex online with multiple men, told one of them she "loved him" and told others she wanted to marry him, but would have to get divorced ... and her husband READ all of this and possibly SAW skype sex with his own eyes.
IMO, he is behaving exactly as MANY people would behave...by immediately moving out and getting an attorney.
On this board, you see many people in his shoes who don't want to let go...even after seeing similar with their own eyes, even after being betrayed like that. But my guess is that MOST people are more like him than those people here.
The people here want to make things work even after such a disaster. Myself, I would leave and never look back...and yes, that is coming from a former cheater. I'd be done.
Please don't encourage SoAsh to have suspicions of her husband. It isn't going to help the situation for her. IMO. Respectfully disagreeing.
I think I'm moving from denial into acceptance. His email yesterday gave me some closure that I needed. I'm done reaching out. I'm not gonna ask the attorney to delay or stall the proceedings. If he changes his mind he has my number, and if he calls, I will respond cautiously. Here's to being tough.
Good luck SoA. You can handle this.
SoA,
I'm glad you are making progress. One day at a time. Someone recommended fitness. This has been amazingly helpful for me. As they said, even just walking. A couple weeks ago I bought a pair of new hiking boots. Each day for the last week I've been walking a 2.8 mile loop through a local park. It is not a big deal, but it is something. I feel good each time I complete it. It is a new routine. Not hard, not impressive but new and something to look forward to. Something to take up time and give my day structure.
There are many such things. Running, walking golf, swimming, tennis. Anything. But having some small scheduled thing to look forward to and complete daily has been hugely important to me. A dog is a good idea too.
Rings? Mine is off. Taking it off was harder than not waring it. Mine is clipped to a carabiner. I don't know why. It seemed like the thing to do. Taking it off does not have to be a super meaningful event.
If reading helps, then by all means do it. But all the reading in the world can't change H's mind.
If you are at all like me, time is the issue more than anything else. How to make the clock tick faster. Structure, planning and routine helps me. Give yourself a list of goals for the day. Anything. 1)Do laundry, 2) Read the paper 3) post 5 times on divorce busting.com . . . . . What is less important the the routine and completing things.
Finally, every time you feel the need to call/email/write/text H. Post here first. Ask for advice. I've found each time I do it, put my thoughts into writing, the immediate urge is satisfied and I can stay dark.
Good luck and we are all pulling for you. You will get through this and you will be a better person in the end.
I do have a question. I'm still putting my paycheck in our joint account, but he is not. I thought it was the right thing to do. Now I'm not so sure. He always took care of the bills so I'm in the dark about everything pretty much. Now I look in our joint checking account and his gym membership and a nutritional supplement that has on auto-ship each month has been deducted from our account. Other bills that are set up on auto pay like our electric bill and auto insurance are due to come out of the account within the next 5 days. There isn't enough money in the account and for all I know, he could have already had his auto insurance put on a separate policy. I really don't want to speak to him.
I'm talking to my attorney today but she charges me $250 an hour....so basically I don't know what to do. Advice? Not to mention the mortgage will be due by the 15th. I don't make enough money to cover the bills that are coming in. I guess part of this is "my problem" because this is all a result of what I have done, but he wants the house, I intend to give it to him, so he should be helping with these bills, right??
That's what your L is for to make sure that the financial issues get resolved the right way. This is a business decision don't let feelings get in the way.
That's what your L is for to make sure that the financial issues get resolved the right way. This is a business decision don't let feelings get in the way.
Good advice. I will talk to my attorney today. I want to avoid contact with him at all costs. I will find out what she suggests.
I've been missing the advice from this board.
I'm leaving him alone and trying to better myself. Still haven't started an exercise program. Spending a lot of time with friends. Trying to focus on work instead of my life and circumstances. Still wishing I could get another chance. Confiding in a few friends in regards to that, but otherwise trying to pretend that everything is OK. I will start the exercise this weekend. Any other suggestions? What else can I be doing? I'm having a horrible time keeping my chin up. I just can't believe I've ruined my marriage. I would do anything to get him back. I know I keep saying that and I need to stop focusing on it, but how? Can't eat, can't sleep, etc.
SoAsh...I feel really sad for you, I know you are in agony.
Are you spiritual? Do you belong to a church? If not, would you consider joining one? Church is a great place to go and sit in a pew and cry your eyes out. If not a church, there are help-support groups for divorcing people.
Please be gentle with yourself, but at the same time, try to stop focusing on how you ruined it, or that you would "do anything to get him back". Those thoughts are not going to help you.
Maybe think of it like a car accident where you were the driver and you hit a pedestrian, and that you know you were not paying enough attention when the accident happened. You accept your part of it, but you also know in your heart you would never have "meant" to do that. At the same time, you cannot expect the pedestrian to make you feel better. He/she has their own pain to deal with and yours is irrelavant to them. In that type of case, you have to get your own closure with it and stop focusing on "anything to get them back". Instead, you pray for their progress and recovery, and you pray for your own. The only thing that helps is time and acceptance.
A question, why are you pretending everything is ok? If your world is falling apart, you need to be open about that so that your friends and family can help you with it.
SoAsh...I feel really sad for you, I know you are in agony.
Are you spiritual? Do you belong to a church? If not, would you consider joining one? Church is a great place to go and sit in a pew and cry your eyes out. If not a church, there are help-support groups for divorcing people.
Yes, I do belong to a church. In fact, most of our friends are friends from that church. My close friends from church know the truth about what happened. They are taking sides, they just wish we could work it out. Everyone at church is loving, kind and supportive. Some have offered me money, a place to stay, I get many invites to dinner. My husband goes to the same church. I'm sure he wishes I would go somewhere else so he doesn't have to see me, but I've been a part of this church for 5 years (with him) and this is where I feel at home. Friends offer to save me seats at church. I get many text messages asking if I'd like a seat saved with a friend and their family.
Please be gentle with yourself, but at the same time, try to stop focusing on how you ruined it, or that you would "do anything to get him back". Those thoughts are not going to help you.
Maybe think of it like a car accident where you were the driver and you hit a pedestrian, and that you know you were not paying enough attention when the accident happened. You accept your part of it, but you also know in your heart you would never have "meant" to do that. At the same time, you cannot expect the pedestrian to make you feel better. He/she has their own pain to deal with and yours is irrelavant to them. In that type of case, you have to get your own closure with it and stop focusing on "anything to get them back". Instead, you pray for their progress and recovery, and you pray for your own. The only thing that helps is time and acceptance. I have been praying for God to soften his heart too. I don't think there is anything wrong with that...right?
A question, why are you pretending everything is ok? If your world is falling apart, you need to be open about that so that your friends and family can help you with it.
With very close friends I am open and honest. I was trying to pretend with others that everything is ok because I am "going dark". Almost all of my close friends are married to his friends. Aren't I supposed to pretend I am doing ok? I did try to reach out to him a few times but he was completely determined to not hear me out, and since the last time I now know I can't convince him. If he changes his mind it's because he's made that decision. An email he wrote me said that all of my efforts to get him back only made him more determined.
Ash,
I think you'll find exercise to help tremendously. One it'll get you in better shape, which is always a good thing. It'll also help you get your appetite back, which is also important unless you're a contestant on The Biggest Loser. It helps relieve stress so you'll sleep better, and best of all, it's measurable. So you can set goals, and have personal achievements.
Could someone possibly direct Sandi2 to my saga? Someone once said she might have some insight on my situation. I'd send a message to her but I don't know how.
Might be another desperate move on my part, but I have an appointment to see another marriage counselor today, even though he refuses to go. It's someone I found because of a link on this site. She's supposed to be a marriage friendly counselor. I can't stop hoping we can work this out. Or I should say, I'm not ready to stop. He moved out 1 month ago today.
Sandi has her own thread in Piecing.
Go alone. It will be good experience for you. You can't drag him with you.
Also, stop looking at the calendar.
Go alone. It will be good experience for you. You can't drag him with you.
Also, stop looking at the calendar.
This ^
SoAsh...you asked if it is ok to pray for your H to have his heart soften. Of course you can pray for anything you want...however, that is not how it works. Your H has free will. You cannot pray "against" someone's will. Even God cannot change your H's will, because it is free. At this time, your H is exercising his right to free will in his choice to not be open to a reconciliation.
Can you pray for him to change his mind? Sure. But God cannot change it. Your H may change it on his own. I hope you understand the difference.
I still think that you are not really seeing the full issue here. As in, if the shoe was on the other foot, would you really want your husband back? I know you will try to apply your current feelings to that question and will try to answer yes...but very likely, if the shoe really WAS on the other foot, the answer would be "no".
There still is no harm in praying for him to have a change of heart...but I think most of your prayers should be sent to heal him of the pain of what he has gone through. IOW, your prayers for him to have a change of heart are actually selfish on a certain level (please don't take that as mean). Whatever HELPS him is what you should pray for...and at this time, HE feels he should move on and that is what will help him.
Your prayers for yourself should be to learn real contrition. If you were truly in contrition, you would understand why he cannot have a change of heart at this time and you would want what is best for him. I know you think that reconciliation is what is best for him, but that is not what HE thinks.
I'm still very sad for you. Trust me that I do know how painful this is.
Dance Queen, I get what you're saying. I am just having a horrible time accepting it.
So is there anyone else that has had a situation like mine whose marriage has survived?
I went to a new therapist yesterday. She said I'm an empty vessel. I have no passion. Maybe she's right. Right now I feel like someone took the air out of my tires.
Now my husband is telling my friends to tell me that I need to move away. He gave my family a job. It was to help me understand that this is really over and talk me into moving away. At first they were They now wish he would talk to me, but at first they were trying to relate his messages to me. Likely I should just give up hope, right? But I'm still hoping.
I went to a new therapist yesterday. She said I'm an empty vessel. I have no passion. Maybe she's right. Right now I feel like someone took the air out of my tires.
Find your passion! What did you dream of becoming when you were young? Don't stew in your own juices, you're young! Go live!
I went to a new therapist yesterday. She said I'm an empty vessel. I have no passion. Maybe she's right. Right now I feel like someone took the air out of my tires.
Find your passion! What did you dream of becoming when you were young? Don't stew in your own juices, you're young! Go live!
I didn't dream of becoming anything. I still don't know what I wan't to do. I "like" the idea of some things, but nothing has ever jumped out at me as my calling.
I went to a new therapist yesterday. She said I'm an empty vessel. I have no passion. Maybe she's right. Right now I feel like someone took the air out of my tires.
Find your passion! What did you dream of becoming when you were young? Don't stew in your own juices, you're young! Go live!
I didn't dream of becoming anything. I still don't know what I wan't to do. I "like" the idea of
some things, but nothing has ever jumped out at me as my calling.
What are these "some things"???
My wife liked the idea of being married. The idea of having a house full of kids. Reality is much different than the "idea of." It's a lot more fun!
Find out the reality of these things that interest you. They may lead you to more and better things. Things that make your toes tap.
"Find out the reality of these things that interest you. They may lead you to more and better things. Things that make your toes tap."
Expanding on this ... I always recommend dancing for GAL activities. And TAP DANCING is actually an excellent form of GAL. It requires a lot of practice, to keep your mind focused on someething other than your sitch. It is REALLY fun, once you get a few steps learned. It is something you can do in private, so you don't have to go out and embarass yourself anywhere. It is exercise, as while you are practicing you do actually get some cardio activity sometimes. It tones up your legs. You get to buy special shoes. And best of all...you can impress people when you whip out a timestep and they didn't even know you can tap dance. You can search around and find a local class or a private instructor.
There are many other types of dancing as well that include an exercise element to them.
- - - -
SoAsh...the only cases like yours I have heard of that have reconciled are ones where both parties wanted the reconciliation. So if your H changes his mind, there is hope. But I would not count on that. As I suggested, just pray that he heals and can be happy again one day. That is the purest prayer you can say for him right now.
I have had to face a similar fate as you. I nearly killed the man who loved me (emotionally). I hurt him worse than if I had thrown him off a cliff. He claimed I "ruined his life" and sadly, he is living a life that does in fact seem ruined. It is 7 years later now and he lives alone and doesn't appear to be looking for any new love. I was his second wife and his second divorce, and he feels he is just unlucky in love and doesn't know how to pick a woman, so he avoids any future heartbreak by staying alone.
For many years I felt horrible for this and took all the responsibility for his current situation. But eventually...after I'd said all the prayers I could for him...I finally released the idea that it is still my fault. He is making his choices now, and although he has every right to blame me if he wants, at this time, his life course is his choice. I feel finally that I have made my peace with the situation.
I will never feel that I was justified in hurting him, but I do feel that I have passed through to the other side of self forgiveness and sincere contrition. I did all the internal work to figure out how I could have done this to him, and I have extended verbal and written apologies years after the D (which he did accept).
We have kids together so the only time I will ever see him is when they get married...which one already did, and he did not even hug me at our daughter's wedding. But that's alright. He hates me and I cannot change that. That's fine. It is just a consequence I will always have to live with.
- - - - -
I have moved on and am remarried and happy. I will never EVER be unfaithful to my husband. That is the one thing I can say for sure for the rest of my life.
Hang in there...
So is there anyone else that has had a situation like mine whose marriage has survived?
SOA, some people can get past infidelity--a lot of couples do, but like Dance said, BOTH parties have to want it. In this case, you H has told you he doesn't want to reconcile and wants to D. Though it pains you and breaks your heart, all you can do is accept his decision and move on. Do not repeat the same mistakes in the future.
SOA,
So sorry for your continuing pain. I empathize with you very much from my own sitch.
Right now, your H's heart is not open to reconciliation. It may or may not reopen to you. He knows how you feel about him and the relationship, your remorse about your actions, and your guilt for hurting him. You have stated it to him clearly in the past, right? If so, there's not much more you can do on that front. If HE brings it up again, you can apologize again for hurting him deeply, taking full responsibility for your bad actions, and also for your PART in the deterioration of your relationship.
What you can do is work to improve yourself, distract yourself, and heal yourself from your current emotional situation. Exercise, exercise, exercise; new hobbies; social activities with supportive friends; resurrect neglected projects/personal goals.
Emotionally, keep exploring what difficulties in your relationship with your husband got you to this point. What of your own personal issues led you to seek intimacy with computer friends? Why did you avoid discussions/interactions with your husband about what was missing for you and turn to the computer instead? What other actions (or inactions) on your part in your relationship promoted the emotional distance in your relationship that cultivated the soil from which your emotional affair grew? You need to address these issues so you don't repeat the same pattern in future relationships, whether it be with your H or another.
Your husband is angry, hurt, resentful and disrespected. You may have passed the point of no return for him and must accept that possibility. You pulling on the rope overtly or covertly for him to come back will just piss him off more and get him to yank harder. Give him space, and let him go. Work to better YOURSELF so that if he does decide to test the waters with you again that you are the best version of yourself you can be. And, if he cannot get over it, you will be wiser and ready to live a rich life.
This ^
And it's damn good to hear from you Busto, how you been?
Still doing the separated limbo lambada. I'll post an update to my sitch. =)
Hmmm, for some reason I had to update the link to my thread. The thread number changed with the board going down. Did that happen to others?
Actually, the UBB link doesn't work at all for me anymore. Same for others?
SOA,
So sorry for your continuing pain. I empathize with you very much from my own sitch.
Right now, your H's heart is not open to reconciliation. It may or may not reopen to you. He knows how you feel about him and the relationship, your remorse about your actions, and your guilt for hurting him. You have stated it to him clearly in the past, right? If so, there's not much more you can do on that front. If HE brings it up again, you can apologize again for hurting him deeply, taking full responsibility for your bad actions, and also for your PART in the deterioration of your relationship.
What you can do is work to improve yourself, distract yourself, and heal yourself from your current emotional situation. Exercise, exercise, exercise; new hobbies; social activities with supportive friends; resurrect neglected projects/personal goals.
Emotionally, keep exploring what difficulties in your relationship with your husband got you to this point. What of your own personal issues led you to seek intimacy with computer friends? Why did you avoid discussions/interactions with your husband about what was missing for you and turn to the computer instead? What other actions (or inactions) on your part in your relationship promoted the emotional distance in your relationship that cultivated the soil from which your emotional affair grew? You need to address these issues so you don't repeat the same pattern in future relationships, whether it be with your H or another.
Your husband is angry, hurt, resentful and disrespected. You may have passed the point of no return for him and must accept that possibility. You pulling on the rope overtly or covertly for him to come back will just piss him off more and get him to yank harder. Give him space, and let him go. Work to better YOURSELF so that if he does decide to test the waters with you again that you are the best version of yourself you can be. And, if he cannot get over it, you will be wiser and ready to live a rich life.
I don't really know if he knows how I feel. The first time we talked about our sitch, he didn't want to talk about what happened. He told me we were through, and that there is no changing his mind. The second time we talked about it, at my request and his reluctance, I wanted to have an opportunity to express my feelings, since I didn't do that in the first conversation. I only listened in the first conversation, I didn't want him to feel like he wasn't being heard. So anyway, second "conversation" which was over the phone I told him I wanted to reconcile, that I was sorry, that I loved him, etc, and his response was "I don't believe anything you say, and I can't listen to this anymore". So I never got a chance to pour my heart out. And even if I had, he thinks I'm just lying to him.
This whole online thing started out innocent, or so I thought. I was playing games (like video games), and not chatting with people are getting involved emotionally or anything. Then one day some guy sent me a message and we chatted, and nothing "weird" ever came of it. He was friendly, but didn't ever express any interest in me that was anything outside of "friendship". So when the next guy sent me a message, I guess I didn't see the red flag. It started out with me just expressing frustration. Like "Why won't he pick up his dirty socks?", or whatever. But then it just snowballed. I said so many of those things I never meant. Things that when I walked away from the computer, never even went through my head. I said things because of the response they evoked, "i.e., you're beautiful, you're smart, he doesn't appreciate you, etc, I would treat you so good, blah blah blah" I did feel like I wasn't appreciated. But did I appreciate him? No, obviously not. Now that he's gone all I can't think of is how sad I am for hurting him, for destroying our marriage, for causing so much pain. I hate not sleeping next to him, I hate not putting my arms around him, I hate not cooking his dinner and picking his dirty socks up off the floor. Yes, I had frustrations with our marriage that I had trouble expressing. Yes, I looked for attention where I had no business. Yes, I did many horrible hurtful things. And I know I need to accept it. I just don't know how.
And Dance Queen, I'd give tapping a chance if I had any interest in dance what-so-ever. I've never wanted to dance. I wish I did. Right now I'm still so raw, I can't even think of one fun thing I'd like to do.
I don't really know if he knows how I feel.
So anyway, second "conversation" which was over the phone I told him I wanted to reconcile, that I was sorry, that I loved him, etc, and his response was "I don't believe anything you say, and I can't listen to this anymore".
Though you never felt like you got to "pour your heart out" he did in fact hear that you love him, want to work on M, etc. You may not feel you said your piece at full length but he got the gist of what you were saying and unfortunately, he wants no part of it.
GAL, Soa. GAL, GAL, GAL.
You will be fine in time, you really will eventhough it doesn't feel like it.
How were things in your M before the affair?
I don't really know if he knows how I feel.
So anyway, second "conversation" which was over the phone I told him I wanted to reconcile, that I was sorry, that I loved him, etc, and his response was "I don't believe anything you say, and I can't listen to this anymore".
Though you never felt like you got to "pour your heart out" he did in fact hear that you love him, want to work on M, etc. You may not feel you said your piece at full length but he got the gist of what you were saying and unfortunately, he wants no part of it.
GAL, Soa. GAL, GAL, GAL.
You will be fine in time, you really will eventhough it doesn't feel like it.
How were things in your M before the affair? Before the emotional betrayal, I felt like overall we got along pretty well. We never fought, but we did disagree. We had the same interests in food, music, movies, etc. But I felt like when I tried to communicate about something with him that was important to me, I felt like he wasn't listening. If he didn't want to talk about something, he just wouldn't talk about it, period. I found myself frustrated often that he wasn't listening or hearing me out. If we had a disagreement, I always yielded. He always stood his ground. I wish we'd learned to work things out when our problems were still relatively small, but I'm sure that's a problem most couples who go through divorce make.
Yep, communicating is a killer; Men are from Mars and all that. Read that book when you have a chance. It may not help you in your current sitch, but it'll be a lifesaver in your next.
Yes, GAL GAL GAL. I agree with soleil and dancing queen that, based on what you said, he knows how you feel. He just wants no part of it now(?).
Towards healing/improving yourself, I suggest you get a book about infidelity and also a book about boundaries/assertiveness in relationships. It's not only OK, but the better thing to do for your partner in your relationship to stand up for yourself and make sure that your key/critical needs be met. That you always feel "heard." You are actually doing a disservice not only to yourself, but to your partner by "yielding" because of the problems that follow. (I did the same as you, incidentally)
Re: infidelity, I liked: Not "Just Friends" : Protect Your Relationship from Infidelity and Heal the Trauma of Betrayal (by Glass)
Re: boundaries, consider: Boundaries in Marriage (by Cloud and Townsend)
SoAsh...I hope you do realize that what you did was an affair (sounds like maybe more than one) and not just an "emotional betrayal". Its called an emotional affair. However, in your case, I would actually also call it a physical affair because of skype.
In my situation, I had many sexual "friends" even though we didn't have intercourse, we did have verbal/written/phone sex and similar. When I was "you", I also wanted to avoid the word affair.
As part of my growth and healing, I had to learn the cold hard truth - everything I did was an affair, either emotional or physical or both.
I'm sorry to seem to rub salt in, but you do need to fully understand this. You can't hide from the ugliness. You'll never really get past it if you think you can call it just an emotional betrayal. You have to get into yourself and find out why you had AFFAIRS and face that mirror and find out who you are.
Yes, totally agree with DanceQueen re: above. This was a mistake I made early on to not really own/admit that what I did truly was an affair. It invalidates your spouse's feelings and hurt, which is as bad as the affair itself.
And if you have minimized in any way or tried to act like it was a "lesser" affair when talking about things with your H, then you have not truly taken full responsibility for your bad actions and for his real pain. In case you have minimized it, I am not saying you should raise this issue with him now, BUT if he chooses to raise it with you that you take the opportunity to really own what you have done and not try to minimize it. To apologize for how you have hurt him. Period.
Yes, totally agree with DanceQueen re: above. This was a mistake I made early on to not really own/admit that what I did truly was an affair. It invalidates your spouse's feelings and hurt, which is as bad as the affair itself.
And if you have minimized in any way or tried to act like it was a "lesser" affair when talking about things with your H, then you have not truly taken full responsibility for your bad actions and for his real pain. In case you have minimized it, I am not saying you should raise this issue with him now, BUT if he chooses to raise it with you that you take the opportunity to really own what you have done and not try to minimize it. To apologize for how you have hurt him. Period.
This is good advice. We haven't ever talked about what I've done. He just knows what he knows and made a decision that way. IF I ever get a chance to talk to him about it I will put this advice to good use.
Letting go is hard, but I've not contacted him in any way since I last spoke to him on September 26th. I've made arrangements to live with a friend. I'll be sleeping there starting midweek. I will move the rest of my stuff out of the house a little at a time. I haven't started packing yet. I'm completely overwhelmed by what lies ahead. My emotions are keeping me from making much progress at all. I haven't even finished the paperwork my attorney needs. Need to finish that today. I think I will start keeping a mood journal.
He will be angry that I'm not leaving town. He said his generous offer in the settlement only stands if I move away. I guess we will see what happens. I'm not trying to make him angrier. But I'm also not ready to move 1500 miles away because he's angry. I have friends here, a job, and a place to live that I can afford. I feel as though he is trying to punish me. That's fine, I deserve to be punished. I will take my medicine, get out of his life, etc., but I don't have to like it, do I?
SoA,
His wants and needs need to take a backseat to your own needs. You can't even begin to worry about how he'll react to things you do. One, it's mindreading, and two, you need to do what you need to do.
SoA,
His wants and needs need to take a backseat to your own needs. You can't even begin to worry about how he'll react to things you do. One, it's mindreading, and two, you need to do what you need to do.
I know exactly what you're saying, but he's been telling mutual friends that I just need to move away, and an email that he sent me stated that his "offer" stands only if I move away, so I think it's less mind-reading, and more expectations based on what I've heard from him, etc. But yes, I need to take care of me first and not worry about how he reacts. You are right about that. It's just hard to change my mindset. I've loved cared about this man for 8 years, and yes, I made some very big mistakes as of late, but it's hard to stop caring about how he feels.
He said his generous offer in the settlement only stands if I move away.
What does your L say? You control yourself.
He said his generous offer in the settlement only stands if I move away.
What does your L say? You control yourself.
My L says his offer isn't that generous and he can't tell me where to live.
He said his generous offer in the settlement only stands if I move away.
What does your L say? You control yourself.
My L says his offer isn't that generous and he can't tell me where to live.
So that is the reality. What are you doing for you today?
He said his generous offer in the settlement only stands if I move away.
What does your L say? You control yourself.
My L says his offer isn't that generous and he can't tell me where to live.
So that is the reality. What are you doing for you today?
Nothing so far. Any suggestions?
Make some goals. Then come up with a plan. Then get busy.
- mental
- emotional
- physical
- spiritual
Make some goals. Then come up with a plan. Then get busy.
- mental
- emotional
- physical
- spiritual
I have a good idea of physical goals I can set. But can I get some examples of spiritual, emotional and mental goals?
I have some kind of weird problem with my home computer and that's why I have not been able to post. I didn't want you to think I was ignoring you.
As soon as I get my computer fixed, I'll do my best to reply. In the meantime, don't give up. My M made it and yours can also.
Sandi,
Thanks so much for your reply. I don't want to have false hope, but I'm not ready to give up either. I'm dark, staying dark. Not even sure if that applies since I'm the wrong doer, but I'm not contacting him in any way. Not trying to slow down the Divorce. Just trying to be patient and breathe.
SOA, I forgot... did he file yet?
SOA, I forgot... did he file yet?
Yes, he met with the attorney before he dropped the bomb. I was served 6 days after he left.
Hang in there, So Ashamed. What are you going to do for yourself, today?
Hang in there, So Ashamed. What are you going to do for yourself, today?
Exercise. That's the only good thing I've been able to come up with so far. I'm broke as a joke.
I need some suggestions on goals I can set for myself or things I can do for myself mentally, spiritually and emotionally. Suggestions please?
Go to the library, read some books. Take a walk. Weed your garden if you have one. Weed someone else's if you don't.
Clean the house.
I need some suggestions on goals I can set for myself or things I can do for myself mentally, spiritually and emotionally. Suggestions please?
- learn something new
- revive a hobby
- volunteer
- pray/meditate
- read jokes
- make a list of what you are grateful for
- read
- call a old friend
- smile at someone
Today, I'm fighting with the same question that I can't seem to get over. How do I tell him how sorry I am if he won't speak to me?
Maybe you could write him a letter saying you are sorry and hope he will forgive you one day.
Anyone else--suggestions?
I like Soleil's suggestion of writing a letter, SoA. I've written my H a letter in the past and it was very helpful to me as well. Just a question as well - have you forgiven yourself yet?
I like Soleil's suggestion of writing a letter, SoA. I've written my H a letter in the past and it was very helpful to me as well. Just a question as well - have you forgiven yourself yet?
No, I haven't forgiven myself yet. I feel very guilty for what I've done, for thinking I could do those things and get away with it, for hurting my husband, for breaking up our marriage. I had an emotional affair (yes, Dance Queen, I said it) with a man, men actually, as I was a repeat offender, who I didn't even have real feelings for. When they would get too clingy, or start to want too much (i.e, they wanted to meet in real life), I'd cut them off and move on to the next one. Or I'd object about getting together, making one excuse after another, until they would finally give up and leave me alone. I just liked the excitement and attention. I'm guessing my husband assumes that I'm either just sleezy, and he isn't interested in sleezy, or that I really had feelings for these men. Either way, I don't know what to do.
Do the divorce busting rules apply to those who are the guilty party wanting to fight for their marriage when the innocent spouse says they're are done?
SoA. I'm so sorry for your sitch, I can see how much pain you're in. I do think divorce busting has a lot to offer to us all in that you can make a difference in your relationships, (even if you're the only one trying) because you start with the changes you make within yourself.
SoA,
Not clinging/pursuing/needing, 180's, GAL's are giant thumbs ups, I think.
I can tell you from my own sitch that any pursuing/clinging/needy/wanting behavior does NOT work in situations like ours. Time and space are your friends.
Validating your husband's hurt IF/WHEN HE BRINGS IT UP and telling him how sorry you are for hurting him may help. And taking responsibility for YOUR PART (but not ALL) of the deterioration of your relationship.
Taking amends in your life (whether it's IC or reading self-help books) to understand and prevent for the future why you engaged in EAs. IF YOUR HUSBAND EVER BRINGS IT UP, you could mention what amends you have taken/are taking in your life so that you will never engage in such behaviors again.
Ultimately, though, this is all about whether our spouse's decide it is something they can try to forgive -- whether they can decide the pain/risk of being with us may not outweigh the (potential?) benefits/happiness of being with us. I think that aAnything you do to try to force the issue while they are not ready to or are still angry/resentful will just backfire. This is why you need to focus on bettering and forgiving yourself. And to be ready for if/when your H might venture back towards you. Be PREPARED to validate your husband's hurt and be the best, happiest version of yourself you can be should he send feelers out to you.
Caveat that I may not know what I am talking about since I am still separated. BUT, things between my W and I are not as awful as they were a few months ago.
SOA,
Found this article for you:
I sometimes get emails from people who are trying very hard to restore their marriage and their life after they were the one who cheated or had an affair. But, even though they're trying their best, they can't seem to get past the guilt and shame that their actions have brought. This in turn can affect their ability to save their marriage or to rebuild their relationship with their loved one or spouse (even if that same person is willing to make things work.) So, in the following article, I will offer some insights and tips that will hopefully help you to finally ditch the guilt once and for all.
What's Done Is Done. You Can't Take Back The Affair, But You Can Control Your Actions Today: In much the same way that worry can be said to be a wasteful emotion, the same can be said for guilt. The truth is, you can't turn back time and make it so the affair or the cheating never happened, although I'm sure that you would sometimes like to. So, dwelling on something that can never really happen is pointless.
You can't control the past. You can however, control how you conduct yourself today. I know that this is easier said than done, but vow to approach every day as a new opportunity to make things right. You might feel as though you've having to live with and to deal with the past as far as your spouse or loved one is concerned. This is understandable and you can not always control how they are feeling or coping. You can however, control the way that YOU are feeling and coping. Vow today, at least as far as yourself is concerned, to work in the present and the future rather than in the past.
Make Sure That Your Spouse Knows How Sorry You Are And Give Them A Relationship Or A Resolution That They Can Look Forward To: One sure way to leave the past behind is to create a future that makes you want to look forward rather than back. It's equally as important that you adequately express how sorry you are so that you can move forward knowing that you haven't left things unsaid. Often, people who cheated feel so much shame and guilt, that they will turn inward and clam up when what they really need to do is to take their loved on by the hand, look them in the eye, and offer up a very heartfelt and meaningful apology.
You want to make it very clear that you understand how wrong and devastating your actions were and that you're going to spend the coming days, weeks, months, and years making this up to them by becoming the best spouse that you possibly can and by producing a relationship and partner that is much better than what they had before.
With these things said, you will know that you are doing all that you can. And, you'll know that you are giving them the partner that they deserve. Many people do not connect the dots to realize that their guilt and shame is negatively affecting their spouse as much as it is affecting them. This misplaced guilt makes you hesitant and only partly there. It keeps you from giving your all and from from giving the affection and reassurance that I can almost guarantee your spouse really wants right now.
Understand Why You Took This Actions (And Help Them To Understand It As Well) So That You Don't Have To Worry That It will Happen Again: Often, the guilt that you're feeling goes hand and hand with the doubt that you might feel when you try to rebuild. If you don't understand why this happened and then go about placing safeguards in place, you will allow for your doubt to seep through and sabotage things moving forward.
Don't get me wrong. There really isn't a valid "excuse" for cheating. There is always another choice. But, if you can understand why you did it (and help your loved one understand also) then this can help to begin the healing process and can help you begin to ditch that guilt. Once you've done this and are confident that you and your spouse don't have to worry about dealing with this again in the future, you will begin to gain the confidence that this situation can be rectified and fixed.
And frankly, knowing that you've righted the wrong so much that your and your spouse have never been happier and more fulfilled is the best way to begin to move on. Moving on is often the first process of getting past the guilt. Just for today vow that you're going to realize that this guilt is only holding you back. It's not fair to you or your spouse. It does nothing positive for you. All it's doing is delaying the healing. You can not change the past. It's done and over. But you can change what happens in your future and you can work tirelessly to make things better. This is where your focus should be.http://ezinearticles.com/?Getting-Over-t...&id=3763513
Soliel, sooooo....How do I tell him how sorry I am if he won't speak to me? He's really putting a rush on the divorce. I can honestly say in my one face to face opportunity to speak to him, I did clam up (thanks to my therapists advice) otherwise I would have been pouring my heart out to him.
This has been one of my biggest concerns. I haven't been able to give him a good apology. Show him how sincerely sorry I am.
Once again. YOU cant until HE DECIDES to come to you. Until then. Anything will fall on deaf ears....
Until then YOU WORK on YOU.
That's all YOU can DO.
PMA
Once again. YOU cant until HE DECIDES to come to you. Until then. Anything will fall on deaf ears....
Until then YOU WORK on YOU.
That's all YOU can DO.
PMA
OK, good point. Every suggestion brings up more questions in my mind. Can you guys and gals tell that I'm panicking?
We've been there, SoA, and understand. =)
What's on the life menu for SoA, today?
I'm watching these miners being pulled out of the ground and working on a grant at the moment. Looking forward to run with friends and some house projects tonight (cleaning up and decorating for Halloween!).
Can you guys and gals tell that I'm panicking?
Like PMA said; We've all been there.
I don't have anything else to offer but my support.
Listen to the wise people on here and become the best person you can be. You WILL make it through this.
We've been there, SoA, and understand. =)
What's on the life menu for SoA, today?
I'm watching these miners being pulled out of the ground and working on a grant at the moment. Looking forward to run with friends and some house projects tonight (cleaning up and decorating for Halloween!).
I'm at work for another 2 hours. I have to go back to my soon to be former home to get some more clothes to move over to my new room. Yes, I'm staying in a room at my friends house. I can't afford a studio apartment. After that I should try to check out the fitness center in the community where I'm staying. I have a gym membership but I've only gone once since my husband left. That's all I've got.
What if you mailed him a letter apologizing and asking for forgiveness?
How long were you guys married/together SOA?
What if you mailed him a letter apologizing and asking for forgiveness?
How long were you guys married/together SOA?
Married 7 and a half years, I know halfs don't count. Together 8 and a half.
I'm afraid of writing a letter and pouring my heart out and him not reading it or reading it and not "getting" that I'm sincere because he's not ready to deal with me.
Can you guys and gals tell that I'm panicking?
Like PMA said; We've all been there.
I don't have anything else to offer but my support.
Listen to the wise people on here and become the best person you can be. You WILL make it through this.
Thanks idontunderstand.
Halfs do count. Everything counts!
Well SOA, the ball is in your court on how to approach your H. If you want to write the letter, do it. If not, don't. And IDU is right.. we have all had that panicky feeling--it SUCKS but is very normal to happen when your M seems like it's on its last leg.
Halfs do count. Everything counts!
Well SOA, the ball is in your court on how to approach your H. If you want to write the letter, do it. If not, don't. And IDU is right.. we have all had that panicky feeling--it SUCKS but is very normal to happen when your M seems like it's on its last leg.
I thought according to the rules of DB, the ball is in HIS court? I'm afraid of what PMA_Baby said. If he's not ready, it falls on deaf ears. I don't know what the right thing to do is.
Halfs do count. Everything counts!
Well SOA, the ball is in your court on how to approach your H. If you want to write the letter, do it. If not, don't. And IDU is right.. we have all had that panicky feeling--it SUCKS but is very normal to happen when your M seems like it's on its last leg.
I thought according to the rules of DB, the ball is in HIS court? I'm afraid of what PMA_Baby said. If he's not ready, it falls on deaf ears. I don't know what the right thing to do is.
Do you guys see why I'm so confused?
I meant, regarding on whether you write the letter or not... (that would be your choice).
As for wanting to reconcile...it's clear you want that and he doesn't so yes, the ball is in his court as far as R'ing.
Idk... what do you guys suggest? Should she write the letter ot not? I think if it makes you feel better, then do it. What have you got to lose.
Keep in mind that I'm far from an expert
-
Should she write the letter ot not? I think if it makes you feel better, then do it. What have you got to lose.
I have read on here, over and over, now is not the time to send a letter like that. OTOH, it can be therapeutic for YOU to write it and pour your heart out, get it ALL out and down on paper. BUT DON'T SEND IT! I believe it will, indeed, fall on deaf ears.
It can help you find out where you are at this point in time, things you need to work on yourself and where you want to be in the future.
Again, just my $.02.
W
What's on the life menu for SoA, today?
I'm at work for another 2 hours. I have to go back to my soon to be former home to get some more clothes to move over to my new room. After that I should try to check out the fitness center in the community where I'm staying.
YES, get into that fitness center/gym tonight. Work some of that fear energy into sweat.
YES, get your clothes and start nesting up your spot at the new house. Anything else you can do to make yourself feel more at home in your new surroundings while you engage on this working on YOU process?
Re: the money sitch, what steps can you take towards long-term solution of more moolah?
Keep in mind that I'm far from an expert
-
Should she write the letter ot not? I think if it makes you feel better, then do it. What have you got to lose.
I have read on here, over and over, now is not the time to send a letter like that. OTOH, it can be therapeutic for YOU to write it and pour your heart out, get it ALL out and down on paper. BUT DON'T SEND IT! I believe it will, indeed, fall on deaf ears.
It can help you find out where you are at this point in time, things you need to work on yourself and where you want to be in the future.
Again, just my $.02.
I agree 100% with IDU re: writing it, but not sending it and was told the same by my IC. I did a whole Step 8/Step 9 type inventory of all the wrongs I did to my W (not just the EAs -- everything that I could think of) in my R. It is scarily long. I have NOT read it to her and won't until (or if) we ever get to the point of piecing, but it has served at least three purposes:
1) Gave me more empathy for her hurt -- much easier to validate, be patient through the process if I could empathize with her hurts.
2) Showed me what issues I needed to work on/understand with myself (looking for themes in the wrongs).
3) When she brings a hurt up to me, I am prepared to acknowledge it, own it, and express amends re: it.
Think of it this way, SoA. There almost for sure WILL be a time when he brings it up in the future. If you write it out, you will be prepared.
My IC says he has abandonment issues since his biological father bailed when he was small, and that when people with abandonment issues shut the door, they never open it again. Is she right?
By the way, I'm reading all of the advice, trying to absorb it, re-reading it. Please keep it coming, don't think I'm not listening. Just completely overwhelmed. You guys are the best. Thanks so much for your patience with me.
That is crazy mind reading and fortune telling from your IC.
He may or may not open the door. If you live the sitch acting "as if" the door is forever shut, a set of bad outcomes is more likely. If you ACCEPT that it may be shut forever, but WORK towards the possibility that it might be opened (Stockdale paradox), then a different set of interactions may follow.
No way of knowing what his psyche reveals. All you can go on is what is the here and now.
SOA, were you really happy in your M or was it getting bad?
By the way, I'm reading all of the advice, trying to absorb it, re-reading it. Please keep it coming, don't think I'm not listening. Just completely overwhelmed. You guys are the best. Thanks so much for your patience with me.
Not a problem, SoA.
It is overwhelming and it's good to be able to talk with others who have been in the
exact same place .
Come back as often as you can and read, read, read! So many common themes. You can always learn from other threads.
Take care.
IDU
That is crazy mind reading and fortune telling from your IC.
He may or may not open the door. If you live the sitch acting "as if" the door is forever shut, a set of bad outcomes is more likely. If you ACCEPT that it may be shut forever, but WORK towards the possibility that it might be opened (Stockdale paradox), then a different set of interactions may follow.
This is what I'm working on. Living in a way that if he were to change his mind, my door is still open for reconciliation. No running around, no affairs, emotional or otherwise. Just obsessing and worrying and hoping that we can work this out someday. Oh and trying to do things right until then.
No way of knowing what his psyche reveals. All you can go on is what is the here and now.
SOA, were you really happy in your M or was it getting bad?
It wasn't bad, per se, but something was missing, no doubt. I realized reading DR that the fact that you're no longer in the "honeymoon" phase doesn't mean your marriage is broken. We had our problems. Of course, communication was a biggie. If he didn't want to talk about something, he just didn't, period. There were lots of things I wanted to talk about, for instance, the SSM issue, finances, writing a will, making a budget, having friends over, what color we should paint the bedroom, etc. I'd ask him if dinner was good, he'd say "It's ok". That seemed to be his standard answer for everything. I wanted him to say, "Yes, I like it", or "no, I don't like it" but how could everything be just "ok"? I lost a lot of weight and everyone else seemed to notice. I'm sure my perception was flawed, and maybe he payed more attention to me than I thought. Whenever I wanted to talk about something serious, or ML, he was tired, had a headache, etc. Maybe saying he did that every time isn't true, but that's how I felt. So, did we have a bad marrige? No. Did we have things to work on? Yes. If I had read DR before I went "astray" could I have fixed our problems without him even realizing what was going on? Maybe.
Of course, communication was a biggie. If he didn't want to talk about something, he just didn't, period.
So, when he'd dismiss you like that SOA, what would you reply back to him? What would you do?
Of course, communication was a biggie. If he didn't want to talk about something, he just didn't, period.
Go in the other room and pout. I didn't want my friends and fam to feel badly about him, so instead of venting to them, I went online and started playing games, and then one thing lead to another....
Sometimes I would ask him to tell me when it would be a good time to talk about whatever it was I wanted to talk about. He never did. I tried not to nag. I hated to nag.
I didn't want my friends and fam to feel badly about him, so instead of venting to them, I went online and started playing games, and then one thing lead to another....
Sometimes I would ask him to tell me when it would be a good time to talk about whatever it was I wanted to talk about. He never did.
Ssss...ouch. Yah. That's what I did too. Withdrew and hid. But unfortunately, withdrawing when someone dismisses you only helps to perpetuate that kind of cycle. Oh but I agree that no-one wants to nag. And no one ends up listening to a nag either. But - everyone has a right to stand up for themselves and ask to be heard if they're upset about something.
Have you ever read any good books on self-esteem SOA? Before I started therapy and came to this board, I actually loathed the idea of them. But once I started reading... I couldn't stop. It helped me regain my self-esteem so much. (don't get me wrong... I still wobble a lot and flub... but I'm miles ahead of where I was a year ago) I'd be happy to suggest some if you're interested?
SOA, your H sounds like my stbx. He never wanted to talk though to a complete extreme. You are welcome to read the first thread I posted if you like.
It's very frustrating when you walk to talk to someone and they won't hear you out.
Did you end up hitting the gym after all?
SOA, your H sounds like my stbx. He never wanted to talk though to a complete extreme. You are welcome to read the first thread I posted if you like.
It's very frustrating when you walk to talk to someone and they won't hear you out.
Did you end up hitting the gym after all?
No, I didn't hit the gym. Ended up on the phone with mom til too late and I knew if I hit the gym that late I'd be up all night. I know, excuses excuses. Unfortunately with my schedule today, gym won't happen til tomorrow morning, but I promise tomorrow it WILL happen.
I didn't want my friends and fam to feel badly about him, so instead of venting to them, I went online and started playing games, and then one thing lead to another....
Sometimes I would ask him to tell me when it would be a good time to talk about whatever it was I wanted to talk about. He never did.
Ssss...ouch. Yah. That's what I did too. Withdrew and hid. But unfortunately, withdrawing when someone dismisses you only helps to perpetuate that kind of cycle. Oh but I agree that no-one wants to nag. And no one ends up listening to a nag either. But - everyone has a right to stand up for themselves and ask to be heard if they're upset about something.
Have you ever read any good books on self-esteem SOA? Before I started therapy and came to this board, I actually loathed the idea of them. But once I started reading... I couldn't stop. It helped me regain my self-esteem so much. (don't get me wrong... I still wobble a lot and flub... but I'm miles ahead of where I was a year ago)
I'd be happy to suggest some if you're interested? Yes, I'm definitely interested.
Is your mom being a big support?
Wondering if I should have responded to this email sent to me on Sept 28th. I didn't. I thought it was the right thing to do. Now I'm questioning it, like I question everything:
"I have not and will not reverse my decision to dissolve our marriage. Your efforts to change my mind have only further convinced me to proceed with the divorce. Please, recognize the severity of what you've done and except the consequences. If you care for me in any way whatsoever you will comply with my wishes. It is not fair for you to attempt to trap me in a loveless marriage due to a technicality of your violation of our marriage vows. You should trust me when I say that divorce is a safer alternative to remaining together in our situation.
Please, do not contact my family and drag them into this. It will not have the results you're seeking.
Also, I cannot continue to live this way much longer. I would like to keep the house. And I know that you have the option of moving in with your sister in (another state). I'm not saying this has to happen over night, but, I strongly encourage you to pursue that option so we can minimize the difficulty of this situation. My attorney has informed me that you do not have to respond to the court by the deadline if you agree to a marital settlement agreement. If you simply fail to respond to the court by the deadline I will still stand by my generous offer and acquire all the debt as long as you move away.
Regards,"
SA,
You need to get legal representation quickly.
Is your mom being a big support?
At first no. My husband spoke to her when she came into town to support me. And instead of telling him we should try to work this out, she nodded her head at everything he said, and took her job to given to her by my husband, to convince me that there is no working this out and that I should move away, very seriously. Now she wants him to give me another chance and she wants us to work this out, blah blah blah. Also, she keeps comparing this to when my father left her. I love her and I'm sure she meant well. Now the best she can offer me is that I won't hurt this much forever and that some day I will feel happy again.
SA,
You need to get legal representation quickly.
I have legal representation.
I just want to know should I or shouldn't I have answered that email? I didn't because I thought I shouldn't.
SOA,
You could have responded but I don't think it would have changed anything. He seems pretty blatant about what he wants. the only thing I think is screwy is him demanding/telling you that you hae to move away. You don't have to go anywhere. If you want to stay in your town, why not? He isn't a dictator who gets to decide where you live and when and how. He is understandably upset and hurt but that doesn't mean he gets to tell you where you live and you have agree to everything he says. It doesn't work that way.
In the wise words of one (well, two) great friends here... ClingingToHope and ImprovedRomeo....... Don't be a martyr!
Yeah you were wrong but that doesn't mean you just agree to whatever he wants in the divorce and you leave so he can be happy that you are no longer in his immediate radius.
If you aren't in agreement, contest it. Did your L respond to the petition already? I would advise you do that and soon...
Your mom is on your side and is listening to you on the phone so that is good.
How is your IC going?
SA,
I'm new so take what I have to say with a grian of salt.
That email was VERY aggressive and hostile. I wouldn't put up with it nor dignify it with a response. It was a blatant attempt at controlling you. It also comes across as coming from a very scared and desperate person.
Kudos for not responding.
Hi SOA
The two self-esteem books that helped me the most are:
'
Self Esteem' by Matthew McKay & Patrick Fanning
'
The Six Pillars of Self Esteem ' by Nathaniel Branden
They are both very different so were very helpful as a set.
Six Pillars is more a 'thinking & feeling' book - in addition to the six pillars, it has exceptional sections on Self-Assertiveness, Self-Acceptance that I've found very helpful in learning how to speak up when people are being dissmissive and disrespectful to me.
'Self Esteem' however is a very hands-on book - lots of exercises, and explanations eg) on cognitive distortions. Also helpful were the chapters on the roles of compassion, 'shoulds', and how you handle mistakes, in determining your self-esteem.
SOA,
You could have responded but I don't think it would have changed anything. He seems pretty blatant about what he wants. the only thing I think is screwy is him demanding/telling you that you hae to move away. You don't have to go anywhere. If you want to stay in your town, why not? He isn't a dictator who gets to decide where you live and when and how. He is understandably upset and hurt but that doesn't mean he gets to tell you where you live and you have agree to everything he says. It doesn't work that way.
In the wise words of one (well, two) great friends here... ClingingToHope and ImprovedRomeo....... Don't be a martyr!
Yeah you were wrong but that doesn't mean you just agree to whatever he wants and the divorce and you leave so he can be happy that you are no longer in his immediate radius.
If you aren't in agreement, contest it. Did your L respond to the petition already? I would advise you do that and soon...
Your Mom is on your side and is listening to you on the phone so that is good.
How is your IC going?
Counselor thinks NOT moving away is a bad idea. I told her last week I'm moving out of the house, but staying in town. She told me I was in denial and grasping at straws hoping he'll change his mind. We'll I'm sure that's true, but this is my decision the time being. Maybe in 3 months I'll decide that moving out of town is the right thing to do, but for now, I need to stay put and carefully plan any steps I take. Running away from my problem isn't the answer for me at this time. Right now I'm looking for a new counselor.
I can't contest the divorce. We're in a no-fault state, so I can only negotiate on the terms of the divorce, but I can't contest it. That's not even an option. I wish it was.
He can have the house, I don't want to be in there without him. But I am not ready to just get out of town either. I'll get nothing out of this divorce. There are no assets to split. I have a job with mediocre pay that supplemented our income and helped us to make ends meet. Neither of us were savers.
Hi SOA
The two self-esteem books that helped me the most are:
Six Pillars is more a 'thinking & feeling' book - in addition to the six pillars, it has exceptional sections on Self-Assertiveness, Self-Acceptance that I've found very helpful in learning how to speak up when people are being dissmissive and disrespectful to me.
'Self Esteem' however is a very hands-on book - lots of exercises, and explanations eg) on cognitive distortions. Also helpful were the chapters on the roles of compassion, 'shoulds', and how you handle mistakes, in determining your self-esteem.
Just requested both books from the library. Thanks
Just requested both books from the library. Thanks
You're welcome SOA, I hope they help. Be sure to do the exercises - they're eye-openers. Take care of yourself - you deserve it.
SA,
I'm new so take what I have to say with a grian of salt.
That email was VERY aggressive and hostile. I wouldn't put up with it nor dignify it with a response. It was a blatant attempt at controlling you. It also comes across as coming from a very scared and desperate person.
Kudos for not responding.
That's how I felt when I read it. I can't dignify this with a response. But of course, now I'm questioning it all.
Why do I want a man who doesn't want me? Or have any love left for me? ugh
Why do I want a man who doesn't want me?
That's part of the brutal reality that needs to be thought thru.
Why do I want a man who doesn't want me? Or have any love left for me? ugh
Here's where you need to be brutally honest. He
might, might have feelings for you still. Hidden by the pain he's feeling, but they might still be there. Or they might be nuked. And though it's a romantic Hollywood notion that you can "win him back," it's BS. Don't kid yourself into believing it. He either is hiding his feelings because of pain, or has lost them, maybe for good.
Either way, you can't change his feelings at all. Only he can. You can grow from this turmoil by learning communication skills that will serve you well in future relationships, by working on your self-esteem so you stand up for yourself and your needs.
Once he gets over his hurt and anger, he might realize his role in what happened. The mistakes he made. That's when you would have a chance for him to initiate contact with you. That's when you would make a heartfelt apology.
I'm a firm believer that you learn more about a person by how they handle a crisis. This is your test (and his). How will you handle yourself? You can handle this.
Counselor thinks NOT moving away is a bad idea. I told her last week I'm moving out of the house, but staying in town. She told me I was in denial and grasping at straws hoping he'll change his mind. We'll I'm sure that's true, but this is my decision the time being.
Um, I'm with you here. Your counselor is loco. Why should you have to move??? That's ridiculous. And you are right, it's totally your choice. A new counselor may not be a bad idea.
I can't contest the divorce. We're in a no-fault state, so I can only negotiate on the terms of the divorce, but I can't contest it.
Wait a minute here. No-fault just means there doesn't have to be "fault" stated in order to divorce. That has no bearing on whether you agree or not to what he's set fort his petition for divorce. I also live in a "no fault" state but I sure as hell didn't sign over wht stbx wanted just to appease him and make it go away... You need to talk to your L about this. Now if you are in total agreement with him, then that's another story.
Paging CityGirl!
Counselor thinks NOT moving away is a bad idea. I told her last week I'm moving out of the house, but staying in town. She told me I was in denial and grasping at straws hoping he'll change his mind. We'll I'm sure that's true, but this is my decision the time being.
Um, I'm with you here. Your counselor is loco. Why should you have to move??? That's ridiculous. And you are right, it's totally your choice. A new counselor may not be a bad idea.
I can't contest the divorce. We're in a no-fault state, so I can only negotiate on the terms of the divorce, but I can't contest it.
Wait a minute here. No-fault just means there doesn't have to be "fault" stated in order to divorce. That has no bearing on whether you agree or not to what he's set fort his petition for divorce. I also live in a "no fault" state but I sure as hell didn't sign over wht stbx wanted just to appease him and make it go away... You need to talk to your L about this. Now if you are in total agreement with him, then that's another story.
Paging CityGirl!
I didn't fully understand what you meant by contesting. He's asking for the house, which is fine. I can't afford it anyway and it's worth half of what we owe on it. He's not asking for anything else really. My attorney is working on the details with me.
Sometimes I forget to breathe. Right now I'm having one of those moments.
Breathe.
You can handle this.
Do a meditation exercise. You can and WILL get through this, SOA
Things keep getting worse. Now he's taking his "generous offer" off the table and leaving me with the debt, the house and the mortgage....or trying to anyway. Talking to the attorney today.
Listen to your lawyer and follow their advice. Make sure that you get what's fair. And don't worry about how your H will react to any legal stuff.
Just when I thought I had things figured out, everything changes. Well, let's be honest, I had nothing figured out really, but these changes just make me more confused and upset about the whole sitch.
SA,
He's working off his feelings, which are naturally in flux. Give him the time and space to work them out, while you work on yourself.
With the lawyer, just treat it as a business transaction, and try to separate any emotions as best you can. Don't be "nice" legally in the hopes of earning brownie points to win him back. Get what you deserve legally.
I'm ready to wake up from this nightmare now.
Hey SOA,
What goes with the D stuff?
Turn your frown upside down today. Do something for yourself. Treat ourself to some ice cream or rent a flick you've been meaning to see.
I'm ready to wake up from this nightmare now.
I hear you. I had a horrible dream that put my in a crappy mood when I woke up. Then I decided not to let it bug me.
Now I look at my old sitch as a crappy dream, and I'm not going to let it bug me anymore.
Hey SOA,
What goes with the D stuff?
Turn your frown upside down today. Do something for yourself. Treat ourself to some ice cream or rent a flick you've been meaning to see.
I feel like I've been doing nothing but "treating" myself. Spending lots of times with friends. I'm still miserable. I miss my husband. I hate to be in my house. I sleep at a friends house every night.
The D situation is...he's decided to leave me with the house, which I can't afford. Initially he said he'd take the house and the debt. He's also leaving me with most of the the marital debt, because a majority of it was used for improvements at the house, which I can't afford. I most likely won't get alimony because on paper he doesn't make much more than me per month.
SA, LISTEN...
Get your lawyer working right now. There's no way he can saddle you with the debt. Here's how it generally works: You get half the assets, and half the debt. If you have disparate income levels, the lowest spouse MIGHT get spousal support depending on the variation of your incomes.
Do you have any equity in your home?
TALK TO YOUR LAWYER ASAP...
SA, LISTEN...
Get your lawyer working right now. There's no way he can saddle you with the debt. Here's how it generally works: You get half the assets, and half the debt. If you have disparate income levels, the lowest spouse MIGHT get spousal support depending on the variation of your incomes.
Do you have any equity in your home?
TALK TO YOUR LAWYER ASAP...
I've been talking to my lawyer. No equity what so ever. We are upside down or "underwater" on the house.
Then he's just as responsible for the house and paying for it. His credit will be screwed if it gets foreclosed upon. He can't just walk away from his financial responsibilities as easily as his relationship.
Then he's just as responsible for the house and paying for it. His credit will be screwed if it gets foreclosed upon. He can't just walk away from his financial responsibilities as easily as his relationship.
Stupidly, my name is on the mortgage. His is not. We are both in title. The reason for my name only being on the mortgage is that I was able to qualify without his income or credit score, in fact, his credit score was going to hurt our interest rate, so...it will only hurt my credit.
I agree. He's liable for half no matter what state you're in.
He's just trying to scare you.
He's either very immature or emotionally involved with OW.
Either way. It doesnt matter. All you can do is MOVE ON... and PROTECT YOURSELF... Time to take back CONTROL. Give him what he wants. Seperate accounts. Go dark.
Again. You are married. Which means he is accountable for any joint debt. Including the house.
I thought you said he have spoken to an attorney. Did your attorney say you are the only one liable??
Again. You are married. Which means he is accountable for any joint debt. Including the house.
I thought you said he have spoken to an attorney. Did your attorney say you are the only one liable??
I feel as if he is not handling this like an adult. First he thought he could run me out of state, and when that didn't work, he decides to stick me with all the debt. Yes, the attorney said I am the only one liable for the mortgage. And my attorney said as for the credit cards that were used for items purchased for the house, I'm stuck with that too.
Again. You are married. Which means he is accountable for any joint debt. Including the house.
I thought you said he have spoken to an attorney. Did your attorney say you are the only one liable??
I feel as if he is not handling this like an adult. First he thought he could run me out of state, and when that didn't work, he decides to stick me with all the debt. Yes, the attorney said I am the only one liable for the mortgage. And my attorney said as for the credit cards that were used for items purchased for the house, I'm stuck with that too.
Find a new attorney.
What!?! Is he paying for your attorney too??
You really need to consult other attorney's asap.
That sounds like BS to me. Why was his name on the title then??
Stupidly, my name is on the mortgage. His is not. We are both in title. The reason for my name only being on the mortgage is that I was able to qualify without his income or credit score.
SA,
I'm in the same boat. I'm on the mortgage, both of us are on the title. It does not matter. The bank WILL go after both of you. I guarentee it. He is on the hook. In fact, you basically can't get him off the hook, unless you get the D and THEN refinance it into you name alone.
The D situation is...he's decided to leave me with the house, which I can't afford. Initially he said he'd take the house and the debt. He's also leaving me with most of the the marital debt, because a majority of it was used for improvements at the house, which I can't afford. I most likely won't get alimony because on paper he doesn't make much more than me per month.
Contest it. You don't have to just say, Okay, sure I will get saddled with all the debts, the house payments, mortage, etc. doesn't work that way, Soa. Get your lawyer working on this. Or at least put on paper what you want (i.e. You want the house to be sold, he can have some furniture, etc). State what you want in writing.
Then he's just as responsible for the house and paying for it. His credit will be screwed if it gets foreclosed upon. He can't just walk away from his financial responsibilities as easily as his relationship.
Yes.
He's just trying to scare you.
Yep. That is exactly what I think.
And at this point, SOA, I agree with Pma on no contact. I don't know how often you reach out to him or anything but my advice is to make a clean break. You are not in any position to deal with him in an emotional level so do not call him or write him or text him. Get your L to write up everything on your behalf and start GALing. I know you are feeling really down and I can't tell you that you'll feel better by the weekend because it's going to take TIME but try to listen to some good music, get some exercise and rent a funny movie.
Not only is he trying to scare you but more importantly HURT YOU. PUNISH YOU. for what you did. That is why you need to go dark and let him come to you or run away. Regardless, it's his choice. You have your choice to WORK on YOU.
True about the mortgage. Your attorney is a clown if that's what he/she told you. He is definitely liable for everything. Only way that would be true if YOU solely owned it BEFORE you were married. Even then a judge could decide that you are both responsible because that person has been living there for awhile.
Again. YOU dont have to agree to anything he says. That is for the court and judge to decide. Especially if he is just trying to "Get Back" at you.
Time to stop the pity party and stand up for yourself.
You need to give him time to GROW UP and realize that MARRIAGE takes WORK. People make mistakes but if you have a partner that is willing to WORK on it then it's your OBLIGATION to try.
Until he gets to that point you will NEVER be able to CONVINCE him.
Again. Take back CONTROL of the DYNAMIC of your R/M. Stop all contact. Have your attorney write up all the MARITAL LIABILITIES so everyone is on the same page.
What!?! Is he paying for your attorney too??
You really need to consult other attorney's asap.
That sounds like BS to me. Why was his name on the title then??
His name is on title because when we purchased the house we were a "happily married couple".
I agree. He's liable for half no matter what state you're in.
He's just trying to scare you.
He's either very immature or emotionally involved with OW.
Either way. It doesnt matter. All you can do is MOVE ON... and PROTECT YOURSELF... Time to take back CONTROL. Give him what he wants. Seperate accounts. Go dark.
I am dark. Very very dark. He paid the mortgage the day after I paid it. I felt like calling him or sending an email that said "Hey stupid, if you talked to me, we wouldn't have to pay our attorneys $250 an hour to sort this stuff out, AND you wouldn't have paid the mortgage the day after I paid it". But of course, I didn't contact him. I haven't contacted him since I got that ugly bullying email. I didn't even respond to that.
Sometimes it is better to bow out gracefully then to publicly humilate yourself.
How much damning evidence do you expect he has that will become public record? What else may you have forgotten about that you said or did that will be seen and heard by your family, friends and church community? Are there voice recordings or pictures that are best walked away from?
How much of the Tiger Woods scandal did you follow?
Sometimes it is better to bow out gracefully then to publicly humilate yourself.
How much damning evidence do you expect he has that will become public record? What else may you have forgotten about that you said or did that will be seen and heard by your family, friends and church community? Are there voice recordings or pictures that are best walked away from?
How much of the Tiger Woods scandal did you follow?
I'm not running for public office nor am I a celebrity. I should just give him everything he wants because I made mistakes? Is that really the right thing to do?
Now that's the attitude you need to have!
SMq is wrong. You made a mistake. You don't need to worry about wearing a scarlet A. You deserve to be treated fairly, and not carry too much of this.
Not only is he trying to scare you but more importantly HURT YOU. PUNISH YOU. for what you did. That is why you need to go dark and let him come to you or run away. Regardless, it's his choice. You have your choice to WORK on YOU.
He has run away. He moved to a new town. Changed churches. Won't speak to friends who don't nod their head at everything he says about me or the divorce.
Well unfortunately FOR NOW that is your answer.
You have only been at this for a couple months. If it had been a year then it would send a different, more concrete message.
The only thing you can do is LET HIM GO. DROP THE ROPE. MOVE ONE WITH YOUR LIFE. Give him what he wants. Not the D part. That part you can stall on. Get another attorney that actually has your best interests in mind and fight for what YOU WANT.
Meanwhile. Take this time to WORK on YOU. Find out what made you "explore" in the first place. Figure out why you NEEDED that ATTENTION. Time for you to have a LOVE AFFAIR with yourself. I know that sounds lame, but you really need to CONTINUE figuring out these CO-DEPENDENT issues.
Life is too short to pine away for someone that doesn't APPRECIATE or WANT YOU. Again. You screwed up. We all make mistakes. Forgive yourself or he will never be able to forgive you either.
I am reading people telling you to fight, fight, fight and that your lawyer is wrong when I assume they have no idea what state and county you live in. I am giving you a bit of realism.
Can you reconcile your marriage? That is up to your husband.
Should you give him everything he wants in the divorce? No. That is what your attorneys are for, to assist the both of you in coming to a settlement that is fair or equally distributed.
Am I wrong? Absolutely Not. There was a divorce recently in the county adjacent to mine in which the husband was carrying on a series of internet affairs. The wife in concern of her husbands behavior set up security cameras in their house and video taped her husband masterbating in women's clothing with a pair of women's panties over his head in front of a web cam. The couple could not come to a settlement and the video tapes were submitted into evidence in court. Embrassing?
In troubled times people make irrational decisions and listen to unwise advice. And the reference to Tiger Woods, was hoping you noticed, that despite all that he tried, in the end he still needed to live his life and move on.
I am reading people telling you to fight, fight, fight and that your lawyer is wrong when I assume they have no idea what state and county you live in. I am giving you a bit of realism.
Can you reconcile your marriage? That is up to your husband.
Should you give him everything he wants in the divorce? No. That is what your attorneys are for, to assist the both of you in coming to a settlement that is fair or equally distributed.
Am I wrong? Absolutely Not. There was a divorce recently in the county adjacent to mine in which the husband was carrying on a series of internet affairs. The wife in concern of her husbands behavior set up security cameras in their house and video taped her husband masterbating in women's clothing with a pair of women's panties over his head in front of a web cam. The couple could not come to a settlement and the video tapes were submitted into evidence in court. Embrassing?
In troubled times people make irrational decisions and listen to unwise advice. And the reference to Tiger Woods, was hoping you noticed, that despite all that he tried, in the end he still needed to live his life and move on.
Steve, I appreciate your point. Fortunately, the state I live in is a no-fault state. The judge doesn't care what I've done...Thank goodness for that I guess.
Well....I think I am finally back and running. I am so sorry I wasn't able to be there for you when you needed me,but you are getting good advice.
I'll just tell you that your biggest thing will be to forgive yourself. It took me such a long time and sometimes I wonder if I have fully done that yet. But we will not heal nor will we be able to move forward until we can forgive ourselves.
The thing is, you don't feel that you deserve to be forgiven. You see what your actions have caused and you are over-whelmed at how quickly your life fell apart.
You have been yanked out of your fantasy-escape world. The pain, remorse,regret....all of it is horrible. But, you will survive this. I believe that right now you must protect yourself financially. For now, you will have to put the plan to reconcile your M on the back burnner b/c your H is not in an emotional or mental place to even consider it. He made up his mind before you even got home that day. He had packed and had contacted the lawyer. That says a tremdous amount about his pride. His pride is hurt and he is very angry. Don't know if he will allow himself to ever consider forgiveness.
But here's the thing.....you have got to take care of YOU. You must learn to be your own friend and stop beating yourself in the ground. You may even have to find a C to help you get past this.
I did the same things that you did. I understand you. I don't think it is something we planned to do....but was kind of sucked into it due to our vulnerability and sadness in our M. We wanted something to cause us to "feel" again. We wanted to feel alive instead of walking through each day as if we were dead. I could talk for hours about that, but I won't right now.
My M survived, but my H is not turned like yours. It was hard and it took a long time to find our way back.....b/c it was mostly "me" trying to find myself again.
Even if there is a D, your life will go on. Maybe someday the two of you will get back together, or maybe you will find another.....but you will go on....if you will allow yourself to heal and to grow from this point.
I still have so much regret but I know there is no way of undoing what I've done. I can only strive to make my life better. We learn more from our mistake and if we're smart...we don't repeat them.
FWITW, I've learned that we do most of our growing through suffering. So, don't give up on yourself. Push forward and and be the lady you know you can be.
Steve, I appreciate your point. Fortunately, the state I live in is a no-fault state. The judge doesn't care what I've done...Thank goodness for that I guess.
no they probably won't. the buddy of mine who told me that story was laughing so hard his manhattan came back up shooting out his nostrils. public record. people talk.
I'm fighting a losing battle.
(((((SoAshamed)))))
Maybe it's a losing battle.
But, the bigger battle is one you can win. You can get yourself right. You can understand how you got here, and make sure that you do what you need to to make sure that you don't fall into the same traps again. You can take care of yourself.
I still think it is possible, perhaps not likely, that you can reconcile. You will have to give him time and space, probably a lot of it. You will have to be your best, so that when he looks out of the corner of his eye, figuratively and literally, he likes what he sees. You can't pursue him, you can't pressure him. And while you are at it, don't pressure yourself.
(((((SoAshamed)))))
Maybe it's a losing battle.
But, the bigger battle is one you can win. You can get yourself right. You can understand how you got here, and make sure that you do what you need to to make sure that you don't fall into the same traps again. You can take care of yourself.
I still think it is possible, perhaps not likely, that you can reconcile. You will have to give him time and space, probably a lot of it. You will have to be your best, so that when he looks out of the corner of his eye, figuratively and literally, he likes what he sees. You can't pursue him, you can't pressure him. And while you are at it, don't pressure yourself.
Jeff, Thank you for your kind words. I'm not closing the door to reconciliation. I'm not pressuring either. I do feel like telling him that our attorneys, and his employer are trying to pit us against each other, but I will just keep my mouth closed for now. (The employer thing is a whole new ball of wax that I won't even bother going into the details for now.
I've seen some talk of Retrouvaille on this forum. I realize that it's not for my husband and I as he has no interest in reconciliation at this time. I just found it an odd coincidence that there is one scheduled in the town that I live in 10 days from now. Too bad it's not something I can do alone.
No, alone wouldn't work at all.
Separated people can do it, and it can help. But they both have to be willing to go. Maybe, if things settle out, and take a while, it could still happen.
((((((((So Ashamed))))))))
Hey SOA. Just checking in on you. Hope your day is going well. Are you still seeing IC?
Hey SOA. Just checking in on you. Hope your day is going well. Are you still seeing IC?
I'm very up and down today. Someone is lying to me, and it's not making me happy at all. It's a long story..
I'm in the process of looking for another counselor. My friend has recommended her counselor to me. I will call tomorrow to schedule an appointment. Am I just lucky or is it normal to get 2 counselors who give you bad advice? Well, I don't know if it was actually one told me I was an empty vessel and called me back the next day and told me that I'm not an empty vessel, I just need to find a man that loves me. The second one told me that I was making a mistake by not moving out of state ASAP. Anyway, maybe the third time's a charm?
Keep looking and looking til you find the one you like. I went through a few before I found the one that I felt comfortable with.
The second one told me that I was making a mistake by not moving out of state ASAP.
This is what Steve was warning you about. I know you have a choice and a right but is it worth it to you in the long run?
The second one told me that I was making a mistake by not moving out of state ASAP.
This is what Steve was warning you about. I know you have a choice and a right but is it worth it to you in the long run?
I don't know how to take advice like this. My husband is divorcing me. I wish we could work it out. He has the right to divorce me. I recognize that. He does not have a right to chase me out of town. Am I crazy? I've been abandoned. He won't even speak to me. I understand why he is so upset. I'm not saying he shouldn't be upset. I do think there are other ways to work thru this without rushing into a divorce. I should move away because he doesn't agree?
The second one told me that I was making a mistake by not moving out of state ASAP.
This is what Steve was warning you about. I know you have a choice and a right but is it worth it to you in the long run?
I don't know how to take advice like this. My husband is divorcing me. I wish we could work it out. He has the right to divorce me. I recognize that. He does not have a right to chase me out of town. Am I crazy? I've been abandoned. He won't even speak to me. I understand why he is so upset. I'm not saying he shouldn't be upset. I do think there are other ways to work thru this without rushing into a divorce. I should move away because he doesn't agree?
No it's because your H could be smearing your name and reputation all over town to get back at you. It's not the kind of thing anyone but a great friend would warn you about if they knew. Maybe the second C had heard stories and was warning you.
I don't know how to take advice like this. My husband is divorcing me. I wish we could work it out. He has the right to divorce me. I recognize that. He does not have a right to chase me out of town. Am I crazy?
No, you're not crazy. I firmly disagree with the counselor who told you that. You H can D you and has that right but him telling you, demanding even, that you must move out of town is completey and utterly ridiculous.
If you CHOOSE to move, you can, but it shouldn't be because someone else is TELLING you to. Dictating for you to go.
As for gossip and talk... people are always going to smack, no matter where you are, no matter where you live, and so on and so on. That is just a fact of life.
I'm having a bad day today. Called a psychiatrist to schedule an appointment. My husband had my insurance cancelled at work even though he paid nothing for it, and I'm broke. I can't afford the initial consultation. Not sure what to do now. Feeling unable to cope.
(((((So Ashamed))))))
Sounds like he is doing the mean, angry, dance. Not surprising, perhaps, but still not nice.
But, knowing that's what he is going to do, you are going to have to get a lawyer, I think. I know, you can't afford that either. But you will have to protect yourself.
Since it's a no-fault state, he can't use any of that "stuff" to justify things like this. It might even be possible to compel him to continue your insurance until things are finalized.
(((((So Ashamed))))))
Sounds like he is doing the mean, angry, dance. Not surprising, perhaps, but still not nice.
But, knowing that's what he is going to do, you are going to have to get a lawyer, I think. I know, you can't afford that either. But you will have to protect yourself.
Since it's a no-fault state, he can't use any of that "stuff" to justify things like this. It might even be possible to compel him to continue your insurance until things are finalized.
I do have an attorney. She's turned in a summons to the court to have him pay the insurance, but it won't go before the judge until November. In the mean time, I wait....
The old waiting game...
Oh yeah, the waiting game is sooo much fun.
SOA, don't sweat it. This is just another bump/delay in the road. Is quite normal.
Gonna get my hair did today. Something to look forward to.
Gonna get my hair did today. Something to look forward to.
I have a few dids but they are not for hair.
Gonna get my hair did today. Something to look forward to.
I have a few dids but they are not for hair.
LOL, I don't know what you're talking about pookie. Sounds good though.
Not sure I would ask for clarification...
Gonna get my hair did today. Something to look forward to.
I have a few dids but they are not for hair.
LOL, I don't know what you're talking about pookie. Sounds good though.
Yes they are. My dogs love them.
Gonna get my hair did today. Something to look forward to.
Good for you
Not sure I would ask for clarification...
Not to worry. They don't have hair either.
Well done ((((((SoA)))))).
No matter what is happening, taking care of yourself is a good thing!
I just need to find a man that loves me.
You do not need another counselor.
.
SoA, I've been following along for awhile now and I just read your entire thread. I want to make some more comments but it's late and I want to really be thoughtful so I'm going to post in the am.
For now, I want to say that you need at least another consulation with a different L. I am also in a no fault state but that doesn't mean that your house and debts aren't marital property. Also, it's standard to have a "cease and desist" filed so that the status quo is maintained through the process. He is likely not legally able to cancel your medical insurance. Your L should be on that now not later. You should check into getting your own policy at your employer though just in case. This qualifies as a change of circumstance so that you can elect it even if it's not your annual open enrollment.
I just need to find a man that loves me.
You do not need another counselor.
.
Steve, please expand on this statement. I'd love to hear your insight.
SoA, I've been following along for awhile now and I just read your entire thread. I want to make some more comments but it's late and I want to really be thoughtful so I'm going to post in the am.
For now, I want to say that you need at least another consulation with a different L. I am also in a no fault state but that doesn't mean that your house and debts aren't marital property. Also, it's standard to have a "cease and desist" filed so that the status quo is maintained through the process. He is likely not legally able to cancel your medical insurance. Your L should be on that now not later. You should check into getting your own policy at your employer though just in case. This qualifies as a change of circumstance so that you can elect it even if it's not your annual open enrollment.
I look forward to your other thoughts bluestar.
How'd your hurrr turn out?
I just need to find a man that loves me.
You do not need another counselor.
.
Steve, please expand on this statement. I'd love to hear your insight.
Any counselor who is telling you that you need someone else to make you happy sucks. A good counselor would be telling you to work on you, to get to the bottom of why you did what you did, to make you see that involving ANYONE ELSE in your life right now is NOT the answer. That is why you need a new C. Plus that one told you to leave town. Uh uh. Not a good IC.
How'd your hurrr turn out?
I just need to find a man that loves me.
You do not need another counselor.
.
Steve, please expand on this statement. I'd love to hear your insight.
Any counselor who is telling you that you need someone else to make you happy sucks. A good counselor would be telling you to work on you, to get to the bottom of why you did what you did, to make you see that involving ANYONE ELSE in your life right now is NOT the answer. That is why you need a new C. Plus that one told you to leave town. Uh uh. Not a good IC.
My hurrr is alright. I just wondered why Steve thought I shouldn't try another counselor. I think I need to get thru these issues that I'm faced with, including "how could I do this to the man I wanted to spend the rest of my life with?" You know?
I think he means finding a new man right now in your current circumstances would be the equivalent of taking on a
'new' counselor, rescuer, distractor and all around band-aid.
I think he means finding a new man right now in your current circumstances would be the equivalent of taking on a
'new' counselor, rescuer, distractor and all around band-aid.
I have no interest in a relationship with any man but my husband right now...who of course wants NOTHING to do with me.
I understand. I'm just pointing out that SMcQ's comment was a response to an expressed desire for a 'man who loves me' not an H who loves you.
I should know better than to try to mind read at this point. Especially Steve's.
Just take comfort in knowing that YOU have no idea what the future will bring. Times change. Feelings change. That is why detaching and moving on is the main thing YOU should be looking to CONTROL.
Hi SoA =)
How about a relationship with YOURSELF right now?
From reading your sitch, it seems to me that you have looked outside yourself for feelings of reassurance, self-worth, and happiness -- whether from your husband, "internet friends," or otherwise. I understand this and am not judging you. I know it and have been there. We all know it hurts to be "left behind."
BUT, what are YOU going to do today to try to be responsible for your own happiness? To start a better chapter for SoA? I understand you are in pain. How can you refocus your mind? How has the gym been going? How is your room shaping up? Whose the last friend you talked to/went out for a _______ with? What's the latest book you read or movie you saw? What's the last thing you made/did with your hands?
Re: the counselor, I think Steve McQ was saying it was HEALTHY when you wrote that you do not want to be with someone who does not want to be with/love you, and if the counselor has helped get you to that conclusion, then that was a good thing.
SoA, here's my two cents sorry it's later than I thought. First, I want to tell you that what I am going to tell you is coming from a 2x LBS. First time, I filed a D-no saving it. The second I used DB and we are still together. So, that said, here we go. Just hear my heart. I do want to help but I won't sugar coat.
You are already getting some great advice from other posters. My thoughts will probably echo theirs. Think of what you are going through like the stages of grief because that is what is happening. You are grieving your M. It is over. Your H is choosing to end it and nothing you can do will change that. You are still in heavy denial. You have stated that you were abandoned. That is not true. Your actions put you exactly where you are. You need to work through the grieving process so that you can get to acceptance. You need to accept reality in your situation. No amount of times that you change IC will change reality for you.
You got some great book recommendations. I will add one more. Relationship Rescue by Dr Phil. Now, I am not saying that you can rescue your M. However, this book really helped me search myself. There are many inventories to take to help you get in touch with yourself and what you want in a healthy relationship. It also helped me realize what healthy communication looks like. I never had it so I didn't even know what good communication was.
A few others have tried to suggest that your H is doing something wrong in his actions. I sorry to tell you. He is not. He is DBing to a T except he has also decided that he does not want to continue the M. That is his right. When someone hurts you that deeply, you have to decide if you can rebuild a M with them or ever trust them again. He has obviously decided that he can't. He is doing nothing wrong. He is doing what he needs to do to take care of himself right now and deal with the extreme hurt he is feeling. Oprah says, "When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time." You showed your H and he believed you.
Now, that does not mean that you are only what you did but like others have said, you have to deeply search inside yourself to find out why you did this and how not to do it again. It also does not mean that he did nothing wrong in your M. M takes two people. He had a part in getting it to a point where you did what you did. You have to be careful not to blame him. You must accept responsibility for YOUR actions. But you can acknowledge the things that you would change so you don't repeat it.
As far as the moving issue, I would not discount moving so quickly. Really, consider it. Ponder it. Think about the pros and cons. Do you really want to live in a place where you will always, and I mean always, have a scarlet A on your chest? People in your church have been talking whether you are hearing it or not, whether they are being nice to you or not. It might be easier to get the clarity you need if you move away. I'm not saying do it. I'm just saying really think about it. Don't just discount it because you want to work things out. (I realize he's moved in the meantime but you still need to consider it.)
Well, there it is. Hope it didn't hurt too much. I really am on your side. I hope you can heal from this and go on to a healthy R with someone. Keep working on the detaching and the GAL. That really will help.
I have no interest in a relationship with any man but my husband right now...who of course wants NOTHING to do with me.
And do you KNOW why you do not want anyone but your H?
Listen, let's say that day he met you at the car had played out differently. If you had gone in to find your H in tears and torn up about what he had found on the computer.....and begged you to stop all of that and commit to the M....yada, yada.......what do you think you would have done?
Doesn't matter, but here's the thing sweetie, if your H had pursued you it would have turned you off cold as a fish. You probably won't believe me but all you have to do is read all the LBH's posts of the WAW in A's and see how the W would react when the H would beg, plead, cling, etc.
I used to think I would want to see or hear my H do that just one time......just pursue me once. Well, I did--and it nearly made me sick to stay in the same room! The reason you are wanting your H so badly is b/c he did just exactly what Gucci tells newcomers that's been LB or cheated on. Suddenly, you can think of nothing else but the man you can't have. Works every time! A little thing called human nature.
because you need to forgive yourself
and you can figure out how to do that yourself
tell me something. two things maybe
what was exciting about these internet men
and what did your husband not do to satisfy you?
because you need to forgive yourself
and you can figure out how to do that yourself
tell me something. two things maybe
what was exciting about these internet men
and what did your husband not do to satisfy you?
Hmmmm...they noticed me. They were interested in things I had to say, or at least they pretended to be, which is more than I got from my husband. They complimented me. They told me I was beautiful, even sexy. I could prance around the house half naked and my husband wouldn't even notice. And I'm sure there's gonna be some wise guy here that says it's because I'm not attractive or I don't have a nice figure. I'm not bragging...well, maybe only a little, but I look pretty good. My husband and I had sex, maybe...8 to 10 times per year. I'm a young woman, and I'm the one with the high sex drive in this relationship, where his seems to be almost non-existent. I didn't feel like he felt any physical or emotional connection to me. I was starting to feel like our roles were reversed in our relationship because he was too tired to have sex, or had a headache, or whatever. Isn't that the crap that women usually say? I used to tell my girlfriends not to keep sex from their mates because what a person isn't getting at home, they will find a way to get somewhere else. I didn't ever expect that I'd do that myself, and I wish I hadn't, even though my crimes were emotional, not physical, which is just as bad. Now by reading DR, I see how I could have handled things better in this respect, but my attempts to talk to him never did me any good.
I wasn't going run away from my husband or my home. I thought I could get things under control before anything "serious" happened.
And bluestar, you are right, I should have never said my husband abandoned me. Poor choice of words. I should have said...I "feel" like he abandoned me.
Let me go get that scarlet A now.
SoA,
You sound a lot better. You're thinking about causes, accepting responsibility, but not beating yourself up. We all make mistakes that we have to live with.
The hardest part is figuring out how to forgive yourself for the mistakes. Understanding them is the first step.
Sorry to hold your feet to the fire again...but you said that your crimes were just "emotional". That is not true and I'm sure your H doesn't see it that way either. While you haven't actually explained your Skype adventures, you have said that you did things you were ashamed of. That broke the physical affair barrier. When you show a private part of your body to someone outside of your marriage even "only over the internet", that is still a physical affair.
And let me give you some food for thought...how do you know that the men that you did these things with didn't record what you did? You're going to have to live with the knowledge that you sent illicit interactions out over the internet and someone who knows what they are doing could have captured them. Also, some of these men could have "friended" you for that purpose. Predators use the internet to take advantage of women in this way but you are the one left facing the consequences.
I understand that you feel abandonded but the distinction is important. You weren't and you should remind yourself of that when those feelings creep in. Just like the emotional vs physical A question, it is important that you face the hard facts of what you did as ugly as it is because the more you allow yourself to wallow in denial, the harder it is for you to recover.
I'm not saying these things to punish you. I want you to get healthy and be able to move forward. In order to do that, you have to get real with what you did. Sometimes, it takes people outside your situation to help you see it clearly. You do sound much more like you get it now than when you first posted. Hopefully, you can use the clarity that comes with something like this to make your life better long term.
Good point Bluestar. Too bad they don't still stone women in our country for these sorts of things.
Those comments show me you are missing my point and not really getting it. Just like most of the cheaters who come here.
Watch how you talk to yourself. You think anyone on this earth over 18 hasn't done something they regretted? It's called a mistake, mistakes normally have consequences, it's the wise person who let's experience teach them.
This is temporary and doesn't define you. You can handle it.
I understand that you feel abandonded but the distinction is important. You weren't and you should remind yourself of that when those feelings creep in.
True, we know that SOA wasn't physically abandoned by her H. She was, IMO, emotionally abandoned. I get very frustrated and upset when I hear people minimizing the long-lasting, destructive effect of neglect. It's very real to the person who's being neglected, it can be devastating. I've been there and the loneliness is unimaginably overwhelming. It makes a person desperate for any little sign from anyone that they matter; that they're important and are valued. Hang in there SOA.
Even though I just posted, it's not letting me edit my post. I clicked submit in error when I really wanted to switch screens.
In order to really heal from this you have to accept what you did and understand why you did it, until you quit justifying it you aren't accepting it fully. You have rejected 3 IC's so far and anyone here who has tried to hold you accountabe for your actions. It's part of the recovery process. The sooner you stop fighting it and really hear what I'm(and others) saying the sooner you can move forward.
You deserve to forgive and heal. Stop with the defensive comments so you can get there.
The edit button is disabled for some reason. Only the Shadow knows why...
I understand that you feel abandonded but the distinction is important. You weren't and you should remind yourself of that when those feelings creep in.
True, we know that SOA wasn't physically abandoned by her H. She was, IMO, emotionally abandoned. I get very frustrated and upset when I hear people minimizing the long-lasting, destructive effect of neglect. It's very real to the person who's being neglected, it can be devastating. I've been there and the loneliness is unimaginably overwhelming. It makes a person desperate for any little sign from anyone that they matter; that they're important and are valued. Hang in there SOA.
Both my W and I could write volumes about being neglected in a relationship. It's horrible to feel trapped in a relationship where one or both partners have withdrawn.
FindingMyVoice, I am in no way minimizing her experience. However, there is a differnce between really understanding what you've done and why vs making excuses. Right now, SoA is still sounding like she's making excuses. That's why it seems like I'm being so hard on her. I want her to get that so she can move past it.
After she accepts the reality she's in, she can begin to unravel how she got there. Naturally, it's not all her fault. Her H will have some responsibility in getting the M in trouble. BUT, she cannot allow herself to see that as justifications for what she did. See the difference?
I just think that telling someone that they shouldn't feel abandoned, just because they weren't physically abandoned, is invalidating.
How can anyone accept their reality if they're not allowed to acknowledge what their feelings around that reality?
If she felt abandoned, then she felt abandoned. Her feelings aren't up for debate by anyone.
Maybe adandoned isn't the right word to describe it. Sounds like neglect, lack of communication, and no real intimacy. My POV.
I agree with FMV here--neglect absolutely destroys a relationship.
However, I do'nt think it justifies cheating, ever. But it is understandable to feel LONELY as hell when you feel someone is withdrawing for you or intentionally doing it (especially in those cases).
Soa, you sound like you do understand what you did. And I agree with Blue that in order to heal, you have to won what you did and find the root cause of it.
Yes, you did a very bad thing. It would be worse if you did not feel bad about what you did at all. You are not evil. I read something once that was along the lines of not punishing yourself constantly for misdeeds--that if you repeat the misdeed, then you haven't learned but if you do learn, then you have grown.
*I meant to say :
in order to heal, you have to OWN what you did and find the root cause of it.
No edit button is really sucking.
How about some goals for affair-proofing yourself for the future?
What are ways to:
1) Avoid being neglected/withdrawn from
2) Avoid FEELING neglected/withdrawn from/unloved
3) Healthily cope with/respond to feelings of being neglected or unloved (i.e., not seeking out or responding to outside suitors).
When you show a private part of your body to someone outside of your marriage even "only over the internet", that is still a physical affair.
So, whenever you watch porn, that's having a PA with all those women?
Stop playing on words, blue. You know what she's trying to say when she said it was "emotional". Don't you think you've thrown enough emotional stones at her? I think she feels bad enough, now, so some help in how to move forward might be in order.
Darn edit button!
Not that "you" watch porn (or other women), but that was an example about looking at other bodies.
I'm not saying any of it's right, I'm just saying let's get past what she's already done and see if we can help her. This is not the way!
I'm with sandi. I would not call it a PA, but it really doesn't matter. It was what it was, and the goal now is to move beyond it.
I like bustorama's thinking. No matter what the outcome, it would be wonderful to know that it isn't going to happen again.
(((((SoA)))))
Hi So,
Your thread is very large...please start a new one.
Thanks,
sg-
Sandi, there was an implication that she exposed herself over the internet via Skype. To me, that is not the same as passively viewing porn and breaks the PA barrier. If it doesn't for you, ok. My point was to get her to see it from her H's point of view.
I am in no way throwing stones of any kind. In every post, I have said that I'm on her side and I want her to heal from this. The sooner she accepts her reality and gets to a place of learning from understanding the better. I am challenging her to think from a different perspective with the utmost respect for what she's been through. There are enough other posters holding her hand, telling her it'll be ok and even blaming her H. Some people on this board waste years stuck in feelings unable to move forward. I don't want her to be one of those people.
By the way, the goal can't just be "it was what is was and move on". We tell the LBS's every day not to except a WS back until they have accepted responsibility and learned from what they did. How can we now tell her something different?
For the record, just because I have challenged her to consider something does not mean that I am 1)namecalling, 2)believe she should take that position or 3)being mean. When I asked her to just think about moving, it's not because I think she should. It's because it could get really uncomfortable if her H continues to be nasty about the D. She needs to ask herself, "can I take that?" if it happens. When I pointed out that someone may have recorded whatever she did on Skype, it wasn't to be cruel. It was to make her consider that fact in case she's ever tempted again and also consider the fact that her H may have something to use against so she can try to protect herself.
SoA, I am sorry for my comment about missing my point "just like the other cheaters..." I reacted before I thought and I shouldn't have.
It is very difficult to come to this board as a WAW in an A. Some well-meaning challenges sound more like a kick in the gut from a bitter LBS. Maybe you don't think you're bitter, and maybe some others don't think they are either....but it always shows up when they start to post to a woman who had an A!
She's ASHAMED! Very ashamed, heart broken and she sees that her life is going up on smoke. I doubt that she's going to be tempted again....unless she completely goes off the deep end. That is always possible and that is why she needs help.
I still suggest counseling,but get somebody qualified and not some goof-ball. I went to a counselor after my EA, and was told that there was absolutely nothing wrong in what I did. Even in my frame of mind, I knew that wasn't right!
So Ashamed, do you go to Church? Are you a Christian? If so, then your greatest healing will come through spiritual feeding. A lot can be learned from the Savior's forgiving grace. If you have a good Pastor or Priest, then talk to him for guidance.
Have a strong and loving support group. By that, I do not mean people who put down your H, etc., but who show you love during this difficult time. When my kids do wrong, I still love them in spite of their wrongs. When I had my EA, my mother still loved me in spite of my wrong. You need to feel loved right now. Where is your family & friends?
Surround yourself with uplifting music instead of depressing country blues or funeral music, KWIM? Don't watch sad movies. Buy funny movies that will cause you to smile in spite of what you are going through. That's important! (Watch cartoon if you have to!)
Go to the library and read inspirational books and self-esteem books. It's so important that you get the right kind of mental and physical atomosphere. Eat good, pray hard, exercise often. Cry until you can't cry anymore but stay determined that life is not over and you will survive this.
Just checking on you, SOA....
How was yoru weekend?
Thanks to all of you who have offered kind words and helpful advice. One day at a time is all I can do. Still wish I could talk to him and tell him I'm sorry. Tell him that I really DO love him even though I did unloving things. Beg for another chance. I still need to find a new IC, one that isn't crazier than me, and one I feel comfortable with. I've tried 2, maybe the third will be the one for me.
Begging isn't the way to go, SOA but maybe for yourself, to get some closure, you could write/send him a letter asking him for his forgiveness, apologizing for what you did and telling him what you want to say. I knwo you said he refuses to speak to you so maybe a letter will make you feel a little better.
Keep searching for a C til you find one you LIKE and who GETS you.
I know begging won't help. I just want to anyway. I gotta start a new thread.