All,
I've recently discovered this website, and forum, and have been reading a lot of stuff - and it has helped. But, everyone's situation is different. I really look forward to advice from some of the really awesome people in this forum. Thank you in advance for reading, caring, and commenting.
I have ordered the DB book, and am anxiously awaiting it. I am especially interested in the part where it describes what I can do - even if my wife is not interested.
I married my best friend (w/benefits) back in April 2002. We now have a family of 5 consisting of my 2 step-daughers, 17 & 15, and our son, 6.
In looking back, my wife has probably hinted to me at various times that maybe something wasn't quite right - but never openly communicated to me that something was up. We are both well educated, on our second marriages, and have always had a close friendship - well before we became intimate, married, etc.
Over the past several months, we have drifted apart. She started sleeping in a different bedroom - mainly because of my snoring. I wrote it off as, well I need to lose some weight, and maybe see a doctor about it. Basically, I am healthy, but slightly overweight, and that's what the Doc said.
On Monday, 8/23, my wife went to a baseball game with her Mom, and didn't come home that night. This was my true 'wake up call'. I was worried sick about her - that something may have happened. Then, she showed up to work the next day with no explanation, and no communication. I had called, e-mailed, texted her several times that night, but I got no response. When I confronted her at work - she basically told me that she doesn't care about us anymore, knew I would be mad, but really didn't seem sorry in the least bit.
After traveling for work, and one personal trip over the weekend for my brother's birthday party, I finally had a chance to talk to her about us in general. She told me that she has been unhappy for awhile (~ a year, maybe more), and that I had several opportunities to fix things, and that she didn't love me anymore. She said that she's trying to figure things out, she recognizes that we have one kid headed to college next year, another in high school, and our first grader. She also told me that it wasn't necessarily anything that I had done, but that she didn't want to be married, and we both should have listened to our 'gut' when we were friends and had both said that we were apprehensive about getting married.
Since this time, I have done just about everything wrong (as I have learned). I went through the gamut of emotions ranging from feeling sorry for myself and crying my eyes out, to feeling anger at 'why me', to screw her!
As far as another man involved - I am not completely sure. I know she has guy friends that she has met from work, and I know that she has had many text exchanges with one in particular. I know the guy, and I really don't think anything is happening - yet - but it really doesn't matter.
I started by telling her everything that a guy would tell his wife when he doesn't want to lose her. I stil love you, I will do anything to save the marriage, etc. Verbally communicated that, e-mails, texts, the whole thing.
She also has indicated that she feels like she has no space living here at home with me, my son, and our girls (we have split custody with her ex - so one week with us, one week with him. She said she doesn't want to me 'Mom' anymore, my wife anymore, and that she really wants to not be married and be on her own.
Having said that, she still treats our kids the same - the same loving Mom that she always has been. She probably has had lots of practice since she's been divorced from her ex for about 14 years now.
Her interaction with me can best described as minimal, and only when there is something that concerns our kids. I've been to baseball games with her (which we have always done over the past many years - and enjoyed together), and it's so not the same. I went with her, her friend, and our younger daughter recently, and she left the 3 of us for almost 2 hours, because she couldn't deal with me - it was too uncomfortable. I went to another game with her tonight, and she was more comfortable high-fiving some young guy next to her -than me.
I came home so pissed off, but also feeling somewhat liberated - thinking that we are so done, and I am going to tell her that I agree with her - she needs her space, and that she was right. Her current job is more of a fun job - and not one that pays well, or is what her career has been. I have been the primary bread winner since before my son was born. She knows that she needs to get a 'real' job, and genuinely is trying to find one - or at least that's what she tells me - and I honestly believe her.
Obviously, I am on here because I want to save my marriage. But, at this point, I am not convinced that it is possible. My wife is very passionate about everything she does. She has never met a challenge that she shied away from. And, once she makes up her mind, it is very unlikely that she would ever change her mind. So different from me - I am the mellow one, the go with the flow guy, the unless she hits me in the head with the 2 x 4 - thinks everything is fine. I guess a typical guy from what I read here.
So, obviously, there are kids involved here - which complicates things. But, I am pretty much ready to have the heart to heart with her and tell her that I am ready to give her her freedom. 2 things complicate this: 1) she still is living here with me in our house, and 2) she doesn't yet have a 'real' job to support herself. She works for the baseball team in retail and really wants to wait until the season is over - which will be later this month - or at the end of October at the latest.
What I am thinking about saying to her is that she can have until the end of the year - or until she finds a job - and that she is free to go out on her own and get her own place to live.
I have not spoken to a lawyer (yet), and she specifically asked me if I had. I am not overly concerned about our finances - even though she spends money like it's out government (sorry for the political reference here). The money doesn't bother me that much. I have a great job, and can always earn money. What I care about is the impact our separation will have on the kids.
I KNOW that I need to set her free, and honestly, I'd love to believe that she would come back to me eventually after the novelty of being free wears off. But, she is such the type that once her mind is made up - that I'm really not sure.
When I talked to her about what was going on - I told her that I thought we owed it to our kids & family to go to counseling. Her reaction was - that's like we are trying to make it work - and I just don't think it's possible any more.
I hope that I haven't bored you out of your mind with all of my ramblings and trivial detail here.
Please help me by providing your excellent inputs. I have seen many of your postings, and comments, and genuinely look forward to hearing your comments to me about my situation.
Thank you in advance again for being there.
Sorry, even after all my ramblings, I failed to mention the whole wedding ring thing. I noticed that for the past few weeks - she has not worn her wedding rings at all. She even 'unfriended' me on Facebook, and listed herself as not married.
This may have been in response to a text that I sent to her a few days after her night of not coming home - when I said that I knew who she was with and I wasn't happy that she lied to me about it.
Since then, she changed the password on her (and the kids) phone account - so I cannot see who she texts now - and also one of her credit card accounts.
I know that was a stupid move on my part - but you live and learn, I guess.
I still have access to some of her personal information, and have checked up on her to see what I can find. But, TBH, lately I haven't really cared that much. If she wants to do whatever - without me - than what does it matter.
looking2keep -
Glad you found the site, but am sorry that you are here. I am in no position to be of any real help as I am in a very similar position myself, but wanted to say that I feel for you. There are a people on here who can and will help you.
I will bet money she is involved with someone.
Search for puppy's post and follow one of his two plans to start.
She never changes her mind? I thought she took vowels for better for worse till death, so it now looks like she can change her mind. They change there mind 20 times a day never believe what they say and little of what you see
Looking,
Sorry you are here but its a good place to be in your sitch. I dont post much, but just wanted to say yor W sounds very much like mine. Some of the things you posted are pretty clear signs there is a OM involved. Password changes, no desire to do MC, and the old "I dont want to be a wife or mom anymore". Search for puppys posts on busting the A or letting them go. If you really dont care anymore (something tells me you do or you wouldnt be here) then letting go is your only option.
If not, then as painful as it might be you need to find the truth about OM and go from there. If you have read alot of the sitch's here you learn the WAW "script". Its amazing how we are all different but yet the WAW script remains the same. If you can search for posts by puppy dog tails, robx, gucci loafer, coach, greek, sandi2. IMO they will help you the most.
Best of luck to you..
I thought she took vowels for better for worse till death,
I'd like to buy a vowel. Is there an 'E'?
Yes, there are one, two, three 'Es'. Would you like to spin again, or would you like to solve the puzzle?
Looking,
You HAVE to let her be free. You cannot go through this for months and months on end and keep hoping in the back of your mind that something will right itself, or that your mental health should take a backseat to your fears about what will happen to the kids. Of course, you are nervous about the unknown, I certainly was. But if your relationship with all of the kids is strong and always has been, you will get through setting your WAW free and they will get through it too. That was my biggest fear, and I have not yet found that my fears have been realized with my daughter. My relationship with my daughter is as strong as ever.
But as far as your W goes, take the initiative to set her free and consult with your lawyer as soon as possible. Like tomorrow, 9 AM. I reccomend you figure out a way to get 50/50 custody of your 6 year old. If you try to fight for full custody of him, you are not being fair to him, you, or your wife. Try to set that tone so that she doesn't attempt to fight for sole custody of him. Not really much you can do with the stepdaughters I wouldn't think, just let them know you'll always be there for them and make the most of all the time you do spend together. Figure out how to protect all of your assets and also plan it so that YOU stay in your home, but don't leave your W completely scared to be out on her own either. Make some conciliatory agreement just so that she's not wondering how to pay for her next meals. It's not like you are rewarding bad behavior, it's just propping her up a little so that she can take care of your son with some level of comfort when she has him.
Why did I just talk about all this legal stuff? I am not pro-divorce here and neither is the site. But in doing those things, you show her that YOU are not going to keep chasing her down this road forever. And it is not about getting in her head, nor is it about waiting for the novelty of her newfound freedom to wear off. It's all about YOU and keeping you sane.
As a metaphor, it's like you both lived in a certain city for a long time that was starting to get run down but, was still at least livable for you though much less so for her. In response, instead of working together with you to find new kinds of joy in that city, or moving to a different city WITH you, she has instead chosen to take a highway toward a different city you know you don't ever want to live in. Think of the most god-forsaken place you've ever been and that's where she's headed. But you have been following her there, especially because you are worried about the effects on your son. Unfortunately, that is actually putting your son on the same chase that you are, and you are ignoring your own mental health. You're not going to be able to be there for him (or your stepdaughters) because you'll always be consumed by the distraction of this chase. [Case in point, you now have to take time out of your life to post on this site instead of doing something with your son, or using the time to clear other things out of the way so you have more time to do things with your son.]
So you need to turn around right now and go back to a city that makes YOU happy, because that will in the long run put you in the best position to have the proper candor and self-respect and positive attitude you need to have to raise your son. You have to stand your ground and stop following onto hers, she is going nowhere that you or you son will ultimately benefit from. By going to the attorney and planning to set her free, you at least are doing what you can to regain control of your future without her. Don't wait any longer. It is not at all farfetched she's at least looked into the matter with an attorney on her own...she may have just not told you about it. You don't want to be blinsided by having to respond her divorce papers...you need to work together to draft dissolution papers and make it a cooperative process. You tell her, look, I'm tired of this, this isn't obviously working for me or you. I'm going to get the ball rolling with a dissolution. Don't take any more of her garbage.
Keep in mind, if she really wants to change things, she will. Anything less than full excitement and sincerity from her is unacceptable though, and that includes full transparency about the past and present (none of this hiding cell phone bill garbage, she needs to admit to whomever she might have been with, etc.).
But I wouldn't hold my breath on that, sorry to say. She has shown you she wants out, and probably can't beleive you have followed her to that god-forsaken city, even in the name of your kids. Let her go, and call her bluff. Do it with the mindset this is best for both of you, and that will inturn be best for your son and stepdaughters. Shown him a dad he can be proud of, not a dad who is like the coyote chasing the roadrunner.
I also reccommend posts by robx, in a case like yours. You have to keep your dignity with this. Easier said than done, I know, I made all the typical mistakes myself and ended up divorced. But I CAN wake up every morning now and look myself in the mirror and live with myself...I could not do that when I was going down the highway to the forsaken city.
I wish you well.
M-30
W-28
D-3
Found OM's presence 4/09
Separated 12/09
Divorced 8/10
I have read some of the posts by the folks you've mentioned before - and many of them give me great hope and inspiration. The people you have mentioned: puppy dog tails, robx, gucci loafer, coach, greek, sandi2 - all have been great.
I am not likely to throw the OM issue at her and am more likely to set her free. To me that seems like it would give me the best shot at 1)me coming to grips with the whole sitch, and 2)giving her what she wants.
I have not talked to a lawyer yet. I've thought about it several times, but haven't yet. In fact my W asked me specifically if I had because somebody called our house, and she must have looked it up and found it was a lawyer. Likely a wrong number. But, she did seem pretty pissed off about it, and told me that she could really make things ugly 'if I was a jerk about it - like her ex.' He told her to take some time to think about it and spend time with her friend. When she was gone, he filed and charged that she abanadoned the kids, etc. It was a messy divorce. I would never do that to her, us, or the family.
What I am struggling with is how to set her free. Is it by getting a lawyer involved? By filing? It's so counter intuitive as it seems that I am making it worse and pushing her away. I don't consider myself a wimp, but more of an intellectual that is caring and not overly demanding. Am I being unrealistic about this?
I need to better understand that whole thing about being her friend. I've always been good friends with her (until recently by her choice). Maybe that comes later, I don't know. But is seems to me that if I ever will have her back like before that is the way it will happen.
I thought she took vowels for better for worse till death,
I'd like to buy a vowel. Is there an 'E'?
Yes, there are one, two, three 'Es'. Would you like to spin again, or would you like to solve the puzzle?
LOL dang iPhone spell checker
I think she's saying she could really make things ugly if you are jerk about it because she is scared too. She is probably in a state that feels like a holding pattern, she doesn't want to let you go or set YOU free, but she doesn't want to continue down the path of unhappiness that she feels. Furthermore, yes, she doesn't want a repeat of another ugly divorce, and is emboldening herself to not let someone do the underhanded thing the last guy did to her. You get it though. You are a much better person than that, and that's exactly the point...you don't have to be a jerk about it. I received advice from several people, and the consensus was, be a gentleman during this time. Don't be a pushover, but be a gentleman. I think this is much easier to do if you focus on the three major things, the kids, the kids, the kids. It is about the kids first and foremost. You need to have the heart to heart with her like you were talking about, but in the context of, "this isn't working for me, you, us, or the kids any longer." We're all miserable, and we can't keep going down this road. Everyone kept telling me, this kind of situation can be as bad as you want to make it, or as cooperative and cordial as you want to make it, assuming you both are mature enough to conducct yourselves well. I can tell by the way you write and the way you mostly "get it" about setting her free that you are.
I was always upfront with my ex about anytime I was going to meet with a lawyer, and any drafts of our dissolution agreement I always had her examine first. If you maintain setting her free is the way to go, you both have to admit things are not working and that you will both cooperate into seeing a dissolution agreement through. But YOU should do the bulk of the work on it, set up a custody schedule you think is fair, set up what you think is fair for child support relative to the time you spend with your kids, how much you pay for daycare as the primary breadwinner, and so on. Give her an offer that's fair for both of you, make it as much of a win-win situation as you can in a situation which nobody really wins. Just keep the kids in mind first and foremost. Then, with her awareness, take it to your attorney and have him review.
I really do think you have to do this to set her free. She IS telling you she wants out, but she doesn't want to be blindsided by activity she thinks is going on between you and an attorney. I think she wants to be a part of getting out of this uncomfortable situation with you, not without you. I would talk to her and see. If she balks about going through with this, then you reiterate, "look, I'm confused, if you don't want to go through with it, do you really want to keep going on like this? I cannot and will not keep going on like this."
Apparently, all the right answers to these problems are to indeed do the things that are counter-intuitive. Hard to do, but from what I can tell, you two are planets apart, not just miles apart at this time. The intuitive things don't work at a time like this.
As far as being her friend, just think of her like your best male friend at this point. If you don't feel like doing something for her, don't. If you do, then do it. You wouldn't bend over backwards all the time for a buddy of yours, nor would you plead and chase a male friend to come back into your life. You also wouldn't "go dark" on your best male friend either unless he did something just completely unconscienable. Treat her almost the same as you would your BEST male friend.
Yes, you probably should keep the OM issue out of it, but don't think for a minute there isn't one. You're closer to her than anyone and you know when things aren't right. But it's kind of like living in a old house with suspect plumbing, and standing downstairs in a room that is directly below an upstairs bathroom. By the time that something "bad" is leaking through the roof and makes its way to your attention, you can be darn sure that when you go up there to investigate it's going to be much much worse, because you still went ahead and trusted that bathroom plumbing even though you knew it was suspect.
Sorry, all I know how to do is write questionable metaphors.
Point is, this suspicion alone is enough to cause you enough anguish to not tolerate things any longer. What if your son was 12 and saw this going on? How might he look at you? You can't go on like this forever. And you should take the initiative to do something to stop it. That initiative I beleive is the lawyer and setting a dissolution in motion, because it is the only thing to show you are serious enough to demand your dignity back and to allow yourself to be away from someone who has clearly expressed they don't want to be with you.
M-30
W-28
D-3
Found OM's presence 4/09
Separated 12/09
Divorced 8/10
Sorry, even after all my ramblings, I failed to mention the whole wedding ring thing. I noticed that for the past few weeks - she has not worn her wedding rings at all. She even 'unfriended' me on Facebook, and listed herself as not married.
This may have been in response to a text that I sent to her a few days after her night of not coming home - when I said that I knew who she was with and I wasn't happy that she lied to me about it.
Since then, she changed the password on her (and the kids) phone account - so I cannot see who she texts now - and also one of her credit card accounts.
I know that was a stupid move on my part - but you live and learn, I guess.
I still have access to some of her personal information, and have checked up on her to see what I can find. But, TBH, lately I haven't really cared that much. If she wants to do whatever - without me - than what does it matter.
Ok, I will recap for you.
1. She takes her ring off.
2. She unfriends you on facebook so you can't see what she's doing.
3. She lists herself as not married on facebook.
4. She changed the password on her phone so you can't see what she texts.
5. She changes the password on a single credit card so you can't see where she goes.
COME ON MAN WAKE UP. Seriously? She's have an A. No doubt in my mind.
Time to do some aggressive affair busting.
Grocerykarman,
I genuinely appreciate the extensive feedback, and quality of advice you have given me. It makes perfect sense to me.
We'll see if we can talk tonight - it will be best before our girls are back with us next week.
I still have access to some of her personal information, and have checked up on her to see what I can find. But, TBH, lately I haven't really cared that much. If she wants to do whatever - without me - than what does it matter.
Man you aren't just "laid back" and "go with the flow".....you are just
lazy! That is why the M is in this shape. You bored your W right out of your bedroom, your M and your life.
So, what do YOU want to do? You sound like you don't want to do anything that requires any effort. Isn't that the real reason you are willing to set her free?
Decide what you are willing to live
with.....and what you are
not willing to live with. Define your personal boundaries and start from there.
You may be right Sandi. Obviously, I have not made her happy.
What I do want to do is to work my butt off to try and fix our marriage. I certainly have been guilty of taking her for granted. Let me be clear - I am NOT happy about this situation, her EA/PA with OM (as everyone else sees as obvious).
I want to either have her and I both work on our marriage to see if we can fix what we have - or give her what she tells me she wants - which is to set her free.
I have really changed my actions in a big way since this has happened. I've been training (again) for another half marathon, I've been dieting, and have lost 12 lbs, I have taken a more active role in my son's daily activities and care than ever before.
I have changed, want to continue to change for the better regardless of whether I can make my marriage work.
Believe me when I say that I think about all of this every minute of every day. I actually had a good laugh a few days ago when my son said something pretty funny. It's the first time I have laughed in quite awhile.
Thanks for your honest feedback.
I had a productive talk tonight with the W. It is clear that she wants out, and so we have agreed to get a divorce. I told her that we should try and be as mature about this as possible, and work together to come up with the terms of the divorce. She has already agreed that we will split custody of my S. We didn't really talk about my 2 SD's, but they will be fine as they are almost grown and on their own anyway.
We do have the near term problem of her living here until she can find a job. I told her that I am NOT moving out. She can go and live with her Mom, or she can wait until she finds a job to move out. There is a lot of work to do on the house to get it ready to sell, but we both agreed to work on this as we will have to sell the house. It's probably best as there are way too many memories here.
I recognize now that I have neglected our relationship to the point that it is no longer fixable. Maybe it is normal, but I certainly keep thinking about everything that has happened, what I could have done differently, and TBH - what I need to do to NEVER have this happen again. Obviously, I am a long way from having to worry about that, but it's certainly something that I want to make sure I don't do with my son.
My son, I hope, will be fine. He knows that both of us love him dearly, and I do think that we will do our best to keep him as happy as can be, given the circumstances.
It is going to be very difficult getting through this, but I feel that I have a decent support system in place - and this forum is one of those.
I could never have imagined that I would be in this place again - since this is my second marriage too, but here I am. I thought that the real reason for my first marriage failure was due to my EW's insane and unfounded jealousy. But, it very well could have been due to my neglecting our relationship too. Maybe someday I will know for sure.
I know that this will likely make me a better parent as I already have been 'stepping it up' in that regard. And I am trying to keep a positive attitude on this whole situation. I will get through this, and it will make me a better person in the long run. One step at a time, and day by day.
Thanks again Grocerykartman - your advice was dead on, and I had so much more confidence in how to proceed on this. It helped me a lot, and for that I am so grateful. Thank you!
Making these changes in yourself came with a hefty price. The real test will be to make these changes a life-long change.....and not some "reaction" to a dying M.
If you can really drop the rope and set her free......and move forward, happily, there is always the chance the A will die and she'll begin to miss the man she fell in love with and M......especially when she begins to see him surface in you.
If that happens, then she will begin to do little things (pursuing you)and your part is to be very calm, confident, and no falling back into her web. If she wants you again, make her work for you.
Indeed so, Sandi. Way too high of a price. And, you're right that it needs to be a life long change - not a near term one. Time will tell, but I know I can do it.
We talked about her doings again last night and I asked her to come clean with me as to what's going on. She still maintains that there is no OM - just friends. And, TBH, I believe her. But, you can certainly call it an EA - or just her reaching out to her friends for support.
But, I understand what you are saying about the possibilities in the future, and to be careful. As much as I'd like to think that could happen - I just don't see it. Once she makes up her mind about something - it rarely, if ever changes. I guess her feelings towards me did, but it's doubtful they will ever change back.
And, that's OK because I have to let go and proceed ahead with this. Right now, it's just hard to get over these feelings that I have - what could I have done differently, where did I go wrong, and the general numbness that I have about the whole sitch. My feelings have changed from anger to sadness, and sometimes it is hard to stay focused on the tasks at hand.
I'm trying to work on one step at a time and take each day to accomplish things towards the goal of getting this all done. I guess this kind of thing is never easy - for anyone.
A fine example of letting go - I am. Tonight I got all pissy with the STBXW. She ordered my son a Halloween costume - which he's been waiting for, for at least a week. When it arrived, I opened the box only to find 2 other adult male costumes. Not sexual or anything, but costumes for someone else I can only assume.
Needless to say, I wasn't very pleasant when the STBXW got home. I apologized to her, but was more pissed at myself for getting mad. That's not exactly a good example of letting her go.
She ordered my son a Halloween costume ... When it arrived, I opened the box only to find 2 other adult male costumes. Not sexual or anything, but costumes for someone else ...
I apologized to her, but was more pissed at myself for getting mad. That's not exactly a good example of letting her go.
Let me get this straight.
She had something for her paramour delivered to YOUR house where YOUR children live and you are apologizing to HER?
There is letting go, and then there is being a friggin door mat.
It is time for Puppy’s lesson on boundaries.
but costumes for someone else I can only assume.
How do you know it wasn't for you and her? What did she say?
Either way, you failed that test. Letting go......what would you have said or done--or not done if this had been a cousin of yours, or a co-worker, or anybody on earth except your W?
What an idiot I am. I asked her this morning about the other costumes, and it turns out that they screwed up and shipped somebody else's order with it. It says right on the label that it was supposed to ship to someone in Puerto Rico!
So, I got all bent out of shape for nothing. Lesson learned here.
We had a good talk this morning about schedules for us individually, and the kids. Also talked about timing of selling the house - waiting until Spring to increase our chances of selling, getting it in shape to sell, and also minimizing the disruption to the kids - especially our HS senior. It was a very civil, intelligent, matter of fact conversation. One step at a time, and one day at a time.
Let me tell you looking, and I probably don't need to, this isn't the last of the things you're going to find that will infuriate you. It will likely get worse, though I hope not for your sake. How did she react to you? And how were you "not very pleasant", if I may ask?
Sorry, I failed to see some of the earlier posts.
Thanks for the words of wisdom again Grocerkartman. I'm sure it will be tough, but right now at least we can communicate without shouting at each other and are logically trying to work this out. Even if it is headed for divorce - which is not what I wanted. But I have learned that setting her free, letting her go is the best way to go at this point. I cannot force her to love me.
So, part of my healing process has been talking with my family. My brother already knows of my sitch, and now my sister (who lives nearby) does too. Everyone I've told is just shocked. They all say the same thing - I thought you two were perfect for each other and everything was great. Obviously, they don't see what goes on at home, and see us everyday, but it certainly was a big surprise to everyone who has found out.
She has shown no signs of changing. She did talk to me today about some details of her most ferocious obsession - our baseball team. Went on about so and so hit home runs, etc. Like I care. I like the team, but my mind hasn't been into it lately. Hmm, I wonder why.
I mentioned I told my sister today. I didn't show any signs of being sad. It was here's what's happened, here's what our plan is, I will likely need your help, and in general a good conversation. Last night wasn't so good for me (major sadness), but no one else in the house knew a thing.
I am really working hard to stay steady and positive with the kids, and minimize my interaction with the STBXW, and keep my sad times to myself. Maybe that's not the way I should be handling it, but that's how it's been for the past few days.
Oh, and I just got my DB book today. Yay. And, picked up 3 books on D from the library. Now, I will be able to read at night and keep focused on the tasks at hand.
I do travel for my job, but haven't been traveling much lately. My WAW goes out of her way to do things to keep busy with her friends to ensure she is not here when I am here - even when the kids are here. Like tonight, she is going to the movies with one of her girlfriends - or at least that's what she told my D and I.
My wife has always been a planner. She now has managed to plan just about the entire weekend away from me. Tonight, she's taking my D's to dinner with a gf, then hanging with her gf to watch the game afterwards - won't be home until late.
Tomorrow morning she's going to one of my D's activities and won't be back until I am at my sister's house with my S. Then's she's going to our friend's party without me (which is definitely better since there will be lots of drinking) and staying over (which is good - no driving). We have about 2 hours planned together with my son on Sunday for an activity that's been planned for months, then I'm going to the football game.
I know I need to give her space and let her go. But, this just pisses me off. She doesn't know that I am mad at all. I haven't been negative at all - mostly just OK's and normal logistics discussion.
Somebody please talk to me and tell me if I am off base to be feeling this way. I could use some encouragement right now.
Don't think about what she's doing. What are YOU doing this weekend??? Do something FUN.
And yes, your feelings are totally normal.
Soleil,
You are so right. I am going to work on having as much fun as possible tonight, tomorrow, and Sunday.
Thank you!
I took my son to a fun park, and we had a great time. Overall, it was a fun weekend at least with my son and I.
Sunday, I went to the football game with a client while my wife took my S and SD to a different fun park. When I dropped him off, I learned that she was also taking her 'friend's' son too. Of course, this made me mad, but tried not to let her know about it.
Then, when I got home her 'friend's' son was at my house - playing with my S. I, of course got mad and told her that we need to have boundaries that I don't know this guy, or his S, and that I did not want her to bring him to our home again. I really didn't want her to introduce someone into my S's life that may not be around. She thought I overreacted, but got the message. She now thinks that I don't want any of her friends at our house, but really what I meant was someone who we both didn't know - me, or her. I tried to explain to her 'what if it was me doing that', but again, she just thinks I overreacted.
This week was going OK, and then this morning, she seems to have a renewed focus on separating. She has increased her zeal for not being home when I am, and is already talking about 'easing' my son into one week that I'm with him, and one week that she is with him - even though she has not moved out yet (because she still has to find a 'real' job).
She now is going to talk to her parents tomorrow night and tell them what is going on, and likely will be spending much more time with them. Although I have a great relationship with them, they will not react strongly in any way, and will likely just go along with her request.
I've been spending time reading the DB forums, and getting positive - even though I'm hurting. Today, I actually felt the most positive I have felt in a long time - despite the discussion this morning.
I have continued to work on positive changes for me personally - I have lost ~ 14 lbs now, ran seven miles today, and am feeling better.
The biggest challenge I have is to not let me anger/sadness affect the way I am with my S. I've found myself being short with him, and even getting mad - knowing it's not something he's done, but the way I feel about my WAW. I continue to try and be patient with him and do things together to better our relationship - even if he's only 6.
She plans on telling my Step-D's about what is going on in about 3 weeks. Honestly, there is a big part of me that will be relieved when everyone finally knows what is going on. I'm not sure why, but maybe it's because she dropped the bomb, and won't make any attempts to go to MC - or to give me a shot at changing. She really seems committed to leaving now - more than ever.
I've decided to really give every effort to be positive, happy, and 'act as if' this is not going to make me sad. I sure have my moments, but I recognize that nobody wants to be around someone who is sad, feeling sorry for themselves, and generally a negative person. I also want to try and enjoy what I do have - which is a great relationship with her family, and most importantly, my S - and SD's.
I'm sensing that she may be moving more towards moving out and living with her Mom in the near term. This is likely because she feels that she doesn't have 'her space' here and with me setting the boundaries, maybe even less so.
So, I am taking it day by day, trying to be positive, and trying to work on my work travel schedule to coincide with her request to travel when our girls are with us, and not when they are not. This, of course gives her a full week to be Mom (and she hopes I will be gone a good chunk of that time), and when I'm back - she can be away and do whatever she wants.
It's really hard to just let her go, comply, and be positive about it, when I am hurting. But, I feel that's what I need to do at this stage. And, in many ways, it will be easier once we have sold the house, she's moved out, and I have my own place too.
She still maintains that there is no OM - just friends.
I have a few questions, if you don't mind. Were either of you still M when the two of you met? You said the two of you were friends with benifits. (I hate that term b/c that is what's use on those so-called dating sites.)
Anyway, I wondered if she left her first H b/c she was involved with another man (maybe not you...but another).
I suspose "uptown" society thinks that couples should have friends of the opposite sex and be free to contact each other "very often".... but I've seen it distroy M's time after time. I do not women can have that type of "friendship" with OM without her getting her personal emotions involved. Then the next thing is OM is "supporting" her feelings and then....well she's already in an EA before he tells her he feels the same way.
It's your decision if you do not want to bust the A. I used to be very strong about not exposing the mother of children. I thought the H should continue to protect her even if she's cheating on him. Since I was a W and mother who had been in an EA, you can understand why I felt the way I did. It took a long time for me to come around to seeing why an A should be busted. I have my own ideas of how to do it, etc. but if my EA had not be discovered, there is no telling how deep it would have taken me and how badly I would have ruined my life.....and my family's.
Sandi,
When we first met, I was not D, but separated - like a long distance one. She has already been D a few years before. So, at the time of her D, I really don't know if there was OM or not. Her and her ex are worlds apart, so it made sense to me that they got a D.
Her friend now I have met a few times, but never hung out with him (back when W and I were fine). But, I know she communicates with him regularly, and likely is in a EA with him.
When I confronted her to establish the boundaries, she said that she knows that I think there is something going on with them - but that there is not.
In my sitch, I really don't see the benefit of pushing this as it would likely push her away even further. To me, how is this any different than what she may do once she moves out? She would be free to come and go, and see anyone she wanted to.
I'm trying to focus more on me, and making myself a better person, and doing what I need to do to be happy. That is the overall message I've gotten from reading up on this through the forums.
My WAW had dinner with her parents last night to tell them what is going on with us - that she's not happy, plans on leaving, getting a D - the whole deal. I fully expected them to remain neutral, and basically support her.
She sent me a text last night that said that they did not take it very well, and she is going to stay at a hotel. She had originally planned to stay with them - at least that's what she told me and my S. Who knows what she really planned. But, I think it's likely that she ran right over to her EA OM and got support from him - maybe even stayed over there, although I really don't know if she has before or not - I certainly think she has.
I am going to the football game with my F-in-law on Sunday. So, I will find out more of what happened - at least from his perspective. I don't want to initiate any conversation with the in-laws or WAW now. I'm going to keep it cool, and act like it went as planned - unless one of them bring it up to me.
What I find interesting is that in many ways, she now will become more dependent on EA OM for support if her parents truly aren't happy with her decision.
She sent me a text last night that said that they did not take it very well, and she is going to stay at a hotel. She had originally planned to stay with them - at least that's what she told me and my S. Who knows what she really planned. But, I think it's likely that she ran right over to her EA OM and got support from him - maybe even stayed over there, although I really don't know if she has before or not - I certainly think she has.
Do you have access to the credit card so you could verify she's staying at a hotel?
I don't want to initiate any conversation with the in-laws or WAW now.
Good plan, don't discuss M with In Laws. Don't ask them for info.
I have access to 2 of them, but she also has 2 that I don't have access to.
So, really no way to verify, unless it shows up on the ones I can look at.
Based on a charge I saw this morning on her debit card, I am about 90% sure she stayed with EA OM last night. Krispy Kreme doughnuts. She doesn't eat them, but I'll bet she bought them for his S.
Things just get more interesting all the time.
Today on her way out the door, she told me that when she told her parents about what's been going on that they were 'idiots and assholes, that she can't trust them anymore and she doesn't even want to claim them as her parents'. She also said 'well they sure love you though'. This all came about as she said she didn't know if she could trust her Mom to watch our son over fall break. I will be out of town for a week on business (that I didn't have a say in), and she will be with our D's looking at colleges.
All this points to her furthering her dependence on the EA OM. I am almost sure she will be there again tonight and tomorrow night. She won't be home until Monday.
Part of me wants to just kick her out of the house, put the house for sale, and really accelerate this whole process. I certainly as losing my respect for her daily it seems, and honestly don't know if I would ever want her back after all of this stuff she's been pulling.
I have never been of the belief that she is going through an MLC, but am reading up on it more. She seems to be so convinced that she is right, and is doing the right things that she is alienating more and more people - obviously me, now her parents. I know that she has totally blown off a lot of her friends that we knew as a family, and spends all her time now with her 'new friends' that she's met from work. They seem to be the most important thing to her now. She does still keep a reasonable job of taking care of my S when she has to/needs to. And, she still is in good with my SD's, but I think as time goes by that they will be affected too - especially our 15 y/o.
OK enough about her. For me - I have a good weekend planned. Today, I'm hanging out with my S. I'm hoping to take him to the driving range to hit some golf balls. He's never done this (he's only 6), but I just got a new driver and I want to hit some balls, and I thought he might want to also.
Tonight, we are going over to his best friend's house, and we have lots of fun planned there. Tomorrow, I'm getting a sitter and going to the football game with my F-in-law. I hope to learn more about 'what happened' a few nights ago too. Then, I'm with my son all the way through Monday night.
It's a challenge for me to take care of him by myself, but one that's well worth it as I will be doing that more and more. I am encouraged that at least for now that my relationship with the in-laws is still intact. I haven't contacted them, but from what the WAW says, they still like me. I will likely need their help and support.
I'm trying to remind myself every day that 'today is going to be a good day'.
I think it's great that you're managing to keep a good relationship with the inlaws; they'll always be your son's grandparents, no matter how things turn out.
Your wife is still living with you while carrying on an EA? Why?
Well, after years of me supporting her spending habits, and running race habits, and allowing her to have a 'fun' job - she needs to get a 'real' job which will allow her to support herself. She has a good degree, and has had good jobs, but not since our S was born.
It's making it extremely difficult to deal with it - with her supposedly living here...
I don't know how I'd feel if my wife were having a PA, but I know what I'd do:
1. Pack up all her stuff.
2. Put it on the front porch.
3. Tell her that she either ends the PA or GTFO. And she'd have 5 min to decide.
Reading this scares the [censored] out of me! As I could see how this same situation could happen to me.....ugh. With that said if my wife was seeing another man while living in our home, I would kick her the F-OUT. I feel like if you let that go on there is no way she would ever be able to respect you again and more importantly will you be able to respect yourself when its all said and done? For me I know it would be the hardest thing in the world to do but I would have to tell her to leave. I feel for you Man I dont ever want to go through what your dealing with. Stay strong
Not that it's a huge difference, but I have no proof of any A, and if I do, it's only an EA, not a PA...
Not that it's a huge difference, but I have no proof of any A, and if I do, it's only an EA, not a PA...
It's why she can't stand her parents, you or her family. It's a big deal. Someone connecting with your wife emotionally is a big deal. You need some solid intel. DB with a EA/PA is different than without. Know the game before you start playing.
Thanks Coach. Her sitch with her parents has improved. It's hard for me to gauge exactly the situation with her friend. She has told me many times that he's just a friend, but it sure seems to be more than that to me. I used to be her friend for many years before we got married. So, I know exactly how I was with her (of course I was pursuing her), but know that we did some kissing, hugging, as friends.
How should I get more intel - without pursuing? I don't have access to nearly as much as before. She changed the PW on two of her cc's, and her phone account. I have been thinking about asking her why she changed these - especially if she has nothing to hide?
I have also been mulling over asking her again about him specifically, and also exactly where she stayed the past few nights. If she stayed at his house with him, my thought was to tell her she has exactly 7 days to get her stuff and get out.
I do not plan on being in an open marriage, and will not allow her to live here if she's seeing someone else.
I plan on catching up on the DR book to see how the rules have changed. If anyone can save me time and give me guidance, I am all ears.
This:
Wife, I won't live in an open marriage. Your relationship with Mr. XYZ is inappropriate. To be reassured that this relationship is nothing more than friends (don't openly snicker), I'll need you to be 100% transparent with me: email, txt messages, cc statements, everything. You have five minutes to decide, otherwise I'll pack up your stuff right now and you can stay at the Motel 6.