Divorcebusting.com

LBS Script & Flying on Instruments

Posted By: Coach

LBS Script & Flying on Instruments - 08/11/10 08:36 PM

So if the WAS has a script and they are in a fog why doesn't the LBS know their part in the script and how to fly in IFR (Instrument Flight Rules) conditions?

The WAS is confused, scared, stressed, angry, frustrated and irritable. Why would a LBS ask for a decision from them? Why would a LBS ask how they feel, for a hug or kiss, ask them to go to IC/MC? When you are stressed out do you want to make a decision or be asked to do one more thing?

Why would you not agree with them? It's how they feel, it's real to them. You defending your position is not going to change how they feel. It's just going to frustrate them more that you don't "see" them.

Flying in the weather depends on not believing some of the normal input you get and relying on instruments to give you data which you cross-check. Your eyes and inner ear will "lie" to you and you can't fly by the seat of your pants right now. So you have to discount those feelings and go with evidence provided by external sources. It can be very disorienting flying in the fog at first. You can feel like you are flying wings level but be in a nose-down 45 degree banked dive if you go by your feelings. The key is knowing what the instruments are telling you to fly wings level. More importantly you have to complete the mission regardless of the conditions. I can control my actions, knowledge, and skill and not let the fog deter me.


What lines do you want to know?

What skills and knowledge do you need to successfully navigate and fly thru all conditions?


When you think thru this it becomes apparent on what you need to do. Don't make this harder than it needs to be. Your feeling are yours, fear will paralyze you. Think thru the fear (False Evidence Appearing Real) and dispute your beliefs about why be afraid.

The so called vets (Pinheads :/) here want to help. We were in your shoes, we understand the issues, we believe in marriage and we believe in the DB techniques. You have to do the work on yourself and be willing to try something different.

How can we help you?


Cheers
Posted By: pinhead

Re: LBS Script & Flying on Instruments - 08/11/10 08:43 PM

God, the idea of me being a vet? LOL.

I might be Wrong Way Corrigan, or a poster child for some skid mark on the runway...
Posted By: Puppy Dog Tails

Re: LBS Script & Flying on Instruments - 08/11/10 08:43 PM

Originally Posted By: Coach
More importantly you have to complete the mission regardless of the conditions. I can control my actions, knowledge, and skill and not let the fog deter me.


What lines do you want to know?

What skills and knowledge do you need to successfully navigate and fly thru all conditions?


When you think thru this it becomes apparent on what you need to do. Don't make this harder than it needs to be. Your feeling are yours, fear will paralyze you. Think thru the fear (False Evidence Appearing Real) and dispute your beliefs about why be afraid.




whistle whistle whistle whistle


R2C, sticky that sucka!!

Puppy
Posted By: pinhead

Re: LBS Script & Flying on Instruments - 08/11/10 08:46 PM

Validating and accepting your spouses feelings has to be the biggest issue I've managed to work through. I don't have to agree with them, or the reasoning behind them, but I sure as hell have to accept that's how my spouse feels.
Posted By: Puppy Dog Tails

Re: LBS Script & Flying on Instruments - 08/11/10 08:47 PM

Originally Posted By: Coach
So if the WAS has a script and they are in a fog why doesn't the LBS know their part in the script and how to fly in IFR (Instrument Flight Rules) conditions?



Great idea for a thread, Coach. The above jumped out at me, and even though the rest of your post went in a slightly different direction than I thought it was going to, I wanted to comment on the above.

I've long felt that the LBS doesn't take NEAR full advantage enough of just how PREDICTABLE the walkaway/wayward spouse's script is. If they are following a script (and they are), and their behavior is predictable (and it is), then why aren't us LBSs/BSs more prepared for the stuff we KNOW is coming??

I get a lot of credit for being able to "peek around corners," but it's REALLY not that difficult, if you'll just put a basic amount of study into these things.

Puppy
Posted By: Chuck66

Re: LBS Script & Flying on Instruments - 08/11/10 08:48 PM

My sitch is already on here but usually 3 pages deep and gets little review.

W couldn't decide on if she still wanted to be married. I did not want to be in limbo and filed.

Same house/same bed/10 sentences a day to each other/She works long hours when she doesn't have to. 99% sure no PA. 50% sure no EA.

She was elf destructive in June. ER visit for OTC drugs. Alcohol every night, etc. Last 2 weeks no pills whatsoever, no alcohol, no hiding in one room at home. We actually have sit down meals with kids. Still no movement on communication between her and I.

Do I just do the DB step of "nothing" and wait to see if GAL and 180s have any effect (yes I know they are for me, but many of us do it for two reasons)?

In the meantime I am being the best father I can. Bought all school supplies, was at school for 2 hours getting them registered, and I take them everywhere (fun) 3-4x per week.

What lines do I say when she says "how about a legal separation instead of a D because it would be quicker?"

When we have not talked for 6 hours, do I even say, "hi, what sounds good for supper?"

What say you Coach?
Posted By: DanF

Re: LBS Script & Flying on Instruments - 08/11/10 08:56 PM

I still don't get how to predict what is coming next. We are getting separated, I havwe dropped the rope. What is next in the script? Do I just go back to Robx thread and read through it? Is there a thread that lays out the sequence of the script?

Sorry to be so dumb, but I would love to be able to predict what is coming next and take steps to prepare myself. Right now I feel like what is coming next is dividing our "stuff", settling the ownership of the house, the finalization of the D and moving on.

????????????
Posted By: Chuck66

Re: LBS Script & Flying on Instruments - 08/11/10 08:59 PM

I feel the same.
Posted By: DumpedforMIL

Re: LBS Script & Flying on Instruments - 08/11/10 09:07 PM

coach, i did a mini brain dump on my thread. could you review it?

thanks,
dumpling
Posted By: Coach

Re: LBS Script & Flying on Instruments - 08/11/10 09:10 PM

Originally Posted By: Puppy Dog Tails
Originally Posted By: Coach
So if the WAS has a script and they are in a fog why doesn't the LBS know their part in the script and how to fly in IFR (Instrument Flight Rules) conditions?



Great idea for a thread, Coach. The above jumped out at me, and even though the rest of your post went in a slightly different direction than I thought it was going to, I wanted to comment on the above.

I've long felt that the LBS doesn't take NEAR full advantage enough of just how PREDICTABLE the walkaway/wayward spouse's script is. If they are following a script (and they are), and their behavior is predictable (and it is), then why aren't us LBSs/BSs more prepared for the stuff we KNOW is coming??

I get a lot of credit for being able to "peek around corners," but it's REALLY not that difficult, if you'll just put a basic amount of study into these things.

Puppy


Yes, that is the real discussion. Know your part. Once you see how your woman feels you can "know what they are thinking" and anticipate your next move. It's like having the playbook. It's also attractive when you are paying attention, listening and are tuned in. The dynamics change very quickly. Know your situation and become aware. Aware of the vibe you are projecting, their feelings, what they really are saying and your responses back. It's not glib, it needs to be sincere but without expectation - that's confidence. Something that projects a little confidence too is keeping your sense of humor.

What projects confidence - she spews all over you and you hold your ground, validate, enforce boundaries, callout mindreading, respond with compassion and still you walk away first without any needs from her.

I wanted a dialouge on this because it's been on my mind and "Newcomers" seems to me to be a little stuck right now.
Posted By: Puppy Dog Tails

Re: LBS Script & Flying on Instruments - 08/11/10 09:10 PM

Originally Posted By: DanF
I still don't get how to predict what is coming next. We are getting separated, I havwe dropped the rope. What is next in the script? Do I just go back to Robx thread and read through it? Is there a thread that lays out the sequence of the script?

Sorry to be so dumb, but I would love to be able to predict what is coming next and take steps to prepare myself. Right now I feel like what is coming next is dividing our "stuff", settling the ownership of the house, the finalization of the D and moving on.

????????????


I'd have to read your thread more regularly to help you with this, Dan. I'll try to get caught up better, and give you my take.

I will say, though, if you TRULY drop the rope (and I would add the caveat here that 95% of those that SAY they have, HAVEN'T), the wayward/walkaway spouse will usually try to suddenly draw you back. SHE WILL PURSUE YOU.

But again, that's a big "if".

Puppy
Posted By: lostnhurt

Re: LBS Script & Flying on Instruments - 08/11/10 09:10 PM

Great post Coach. Now I need to tattoo it to my forehead.
Posted By: Coach

Re: LBS Script & Flying on Instruments - 08/11/10 09:16 PM

Quote:
"hi, what sounds good for supper?"


"I am grilling steaks for dinner and having a beer. How would you like yours cooked?"

Lead.


Quote:
"how about a legal separation instead of a D because it would be quicker?"


"I have decided that this marriage isn't working for me either. If that will make you happy then I will talk to my attorney."

Lead.
Posted By: Chuck66

Re: LBS Script & Flying on Instruments - 08/11/10 09:19 PM

PDT,
I agree with the 95% have not fully dropped the rope (me included). Can you give some tangible ways to do this?

If my wife wants a S because the D is taking to long do I ask her how many boxes I need to get for her stuff? Do I purchase said boxes?

Do I remind her that our auto insurance is almost due in a month or two and I will have to remove her from my policy and it will no longer have the multi-car discount?

What other tangible things can I do other than not talking to her about R, not pursuing, no texting, emailing, or calling? I have those things down pretty good. I have very few other things to go along with them.

Chuck
Posted By: Greek

Re: LBS Script & Flying on Instruments - 08/11/10 09:20 PM

Quote:
It's also attractive when you are paying attention, listening and are tuned in. The dynamics change very quickly. Know your situation and become aware. Aware of the vibe you are projecting, their feelings, what they really are saying and your responses back. It's not glib, it needs to be sincere but without expectation - that's confidence. Something that projects a little confidence too is keeping your sense of humor.


Truth.
Greek
Posted By: Chuck66

Re: LBS Script & Flying on Instruments - 08/11/10 09:21 PM

If they are not talking, how can I pay attention and listen?
Posted By: Puppy Dog Tails

Re: LBS Script & Flying on Instruments - 08/11/10 09:23 PM

Originally Posted By: Chuck66


If my wife wants a S because the D is taking to long do I ask her how many boxes I need to get for her stuff? Do I purchase said boxes?

Do I remind her that our auto insurance is almost due in a month or two and I will have to remove her from my policy and it will no longer have the multi-car discount?



Yes, yes, yes, yes and yes.


I'll try to check out your thread for more feedback, Chuck.


Puppy
Posted By: Chuck66

Re: LBS Script & Flying on Instruments - 08/11/10 09:25 PM

Cool!
Posted By: Coach

Re: LBS Script & Flying on Instruments - 08/11/10 09:27 PM

Quote:
If they are not talking, how can I pay attention and listen?


When you take care of business (TCB).

Kids - school, sports, hobbies, behavior
Finances - car, house
Moving - start talking about splitting up the Christmas decorations, photos, artwork,the kids artwork, music (all the emotional stuff) -while you lead

She will start talking and the opportunity is there.
Posted By: Puppy Dog Tails

Re: LBS Script & Flying on Instruments - 08/11/10 09:32 PM

Originally Posted By: Coach

Moving - start talking about splitting up the Christmas decorations, photos, artwork,the kids artwork, music (all the emotional stuff) -while you lead

She will start talking and the opportunity is there.


Yep. It's like the politicians; when you threaten austerity in their budgets, it's always "teachers," "firemen" and "police protection" they wail about first! They know that will get the public's attention.

Puppy
Posted By: Ready2Change

Re: LBS Script & Flying on Instruments - 08/11/10 09:40 PM

I have gotten very good at stiring emotions just enough, then the truth comes out...Then I shut up and listen...
Posted By: Coach

Re: LBS Script & Flying on Instruments - 08/11/10 09:51 PM

When you get to the emotions it creates a connection. It makes people feel like the other person "sees" them, they feel appreciated and supported. It says to them "you matter to me." That changes how the other person thinks about you when you create that emotional connection. That creates and stirs the attraction chemicals. Be catnip.
Posted By: dad1b1g

Re: LBS Script & Flying on Instruments - 08/11/10 09:55 PM

I guess I am one of those that thought I had let go. Then she starts calling me for no reason, telling me shes comming home, tells the kids things knowing they'll tell me (what she is doing, where she is going) which she hasn't done for quite some time and was one of her issues with me and all those feelings come back. I don't let them show and continue down my path but when she's gone and I'm alone that stuff starts creeping beck in.

I've heard of the script alot from reading and re-reading but I may be too covered up in my own sitch to see the pattern.
Posted By: Chuck66

Re: LBS Script & Flying on Instruments - 08/12/10 12:25 AM

Coach,
Those are GREAT tangible things to do. That helps A LOT! X-mas items, photos, and heck, even dishes...now I can see many more things!

Out with the old...in with the new! Sort of speak. My new life is waiting and I have to shed the old. Can't be draggin' our heels now can we?
Posted By: packergirl34

Re: LBS Script & Flying on Instruments - 08/12/10 01:52 AM

I love this! Thank you! This is what we need. I'm new here and don't have a lot of time to read through all the threads, so this is really great.

My question is about the kids. This week was supposed to be "his week" with them, but I have had them for most of it so far. I have them this weekend, then they are going to stay with the grandparents for a few days, then I have them again for a family trip up north. What do I do? I mean, he's the WAH and he's just loving this because he gets to sleep in, eat what he wants when he wants, read books, and just do what he wants. He's off work this week and won't see the kids for the next two weeks, so I thought he would want to spend a lot of time with them, but he doesn't.

I can't let them suffer, so do I just suck it up and do what I can with them and for them?

Thanks.
Posted By: DanF

Re: LBS Script & Flying on Instruments - 08/12/10 02:10 AM

Originally Posted By: Greek
Quote:
It's also attractive when you are paying attention, listening and are tuned in. The dynamics change very quickly. Know your situation and become aware. Aware of the vibe you are projecting, their feelings, what they really are saying and your responses back. It's not glib, it needs to be sincere but without expectation - that's confidence. Something that projects a little confidence too is keeping your sense of humor.


Truth.
Greek


I'm confused about how to balance all the different advice.

Just be gone.

Stop talking to your wife, you seem to go backwards every time you do.

So I have spent more time away from the house and not talking to her. Now I will be moving. now I am reading to pay attention, listen and tune in.

How do I balance all this?

Sometimes I feel like I have dropped the rope, but lots of times I don't either. I know I don't validate like I should, somehow I always end-up defending myself instead because I am being attacked.

I've tried to follow links of guys that are slightly ahead of me in the process, but things are never exactly the same and we sometimes leap-frog each other.

I just don't know anymore. All I get from her is cold. We did get into it a bit after our court date last week Tuesday. We talked for quite a while in the middle of the afternoon when my brother was at my house. It wasn't very productive. We never seem to have time alone anymore because the kids stay up so late now that we go to bed just about the same time they do.

I wish there was some easy way for me to know what to do, because I just can't seem to figure it out. And continuing to talk about it seems to make it harder for me to drop the rope completely.

I think it will be much easier once I am out of the house. I won't be talking to her unless it is about transferring the kids or if she bring something up. My understanding is that that is the right way to proceed?
Posted By: pinhead

Re: LBS Script & Flying on Instruments - 08/12/10 10:40 AM

Originally Posted By: Coach
When you get to the emotions it creates a connection. It makes people feel like the other person "sees" them, they feel appreciated and supported. It says to them "you matter to me." That changes how the other person thinks about you when you create that emotional connection. That creates and stirs the attraction chemicals. Be catnip.


What happens when the emotions you stir up are fear and guilt? Talking about splitting up our possessions makes her very upset. Leading her with finding a place to stay gets her very upset. Do I try and lead her in talking about her emotions? Right now she feels like I'm trying to push her out, but at the same time I don't want to be taking her temperature every evening. I give her a chance to talk to me, but as soon as she knows I'm going to go work out, she shuts down.
Posted By: Coach

Re: LBS Script & Flying on Instruments - 08/12/10 02:15 PM

Quote:
What happens when the emotions you stir up are fear and guilt?


And you are responsible for how someone else feels? It's not your problem.

Quote:
Do I try and lead her in talking about her emotions?


NO! It's pursuing, let her go to feel all her emotions. Trust me when she let's you know how she feels you won't be asking her how she feels.

Quote:
Right now she feels like I'm trying to push her out


Really, you asked for the D? Stop trying to fix it.
Posted By: pinhead

Re: LBS Script & Flying on Instruments - 08/12/10 02:22 PM

Gah, I must be the dumbest person on this forum!

Here's my thinking:

She's dragging her feet, or at least not moving as fast as I would be if the roles were reversed...(hmm)

If I stir up her emotions by talking about our possessions etc, she'll get agitated. Then I should listen to her? Just validate? That seems pretty manipulative. Trying to control her.

Instead, I think I should just keep my GAL, working out, 180s, and when she wants to talk, listen and validate. Not try to push the separation forward at all, let her go at her own pace. The problem is that this limbo is really hard on me, and on the girls.
Posted By: Coach

Re: LBS Script & Flying on Instruments - 08/12/10 02:28 PM

Quote:
Stop talking to your wife, you seem to go backwards every time you do.


Who likes to be talked to?

You lead on the issues.
"Here is what I have decided about the house."
"You can stay on my health insurance until _________ after that you will need to find your own plan."

You listen to her, if she starts going off about not being able to afford _____. Just say, "that's what happens when you get divorced." It's not your problem.

You have to let them go so they can face the brutal reality - family split, miss you, money is tight, face their issues in the M. Let them feel all of it, it's theirs to own. You want your WAS to come back because they decided they want to be with you.

Quote:
somehow I always end-up defending myself instead because I am being attacked.


A woman wants her man to be able to weather her feelings. She needs to feel safe. You are not being attacked - how did you get hurt? If she beat you or verbally abused you then OK, you were attacked. Her feelings are her feelings, that's OK.

Quote:
I wish there was some easy way for me to know what to do, because I just can't seem to figure it out.


When she tells you how she feels just listen. It's not personal. Agree with her feelings, "I can see how you would feel that way. How can I help you with that?" Then listen with all your senses, be in tune with her.
Posted By: gr8 day 2B alive

Re: LBS Script & Flying on Instruments - 08/12/10 02:30 PM

Quote:
The problem is that this limbo is really hard on me, and on the girls.


Oh yeah, not a fun place to be. Went from one limbo to another.

First, whether or not she wanted to work on M. She said no.
I moved forward.
Then limbo about the finances. She was passive, I got the ball rolling, she still is passive.

Limbo sux, difinetive answers we can deal with either good or bad.

Be patience.
Posted By: Coach

Re: LBS Script & Flying on Instruments - 08/12/10 02:31 PM

Quote:
Then I should listen to her? Just validate? That seems pretty manipulative. Trying to control her.


How is listening and validating controlling or manipulative?

Asking her if you should put the deposit down is controlling and manipulative. That's not your business.
Posted By: Coach

Re: LBS Script & Flying on Instruments - 08/12/10 02:34 PM

Quote:
My question is about the kids. This week was supposed to be "his week" with them, but I have had them for most of it so far. I have them this weekend, then they are going to stay with the grandparents for a few days, then I have them again for a family trip up north. What do I do?


Go see a L and get a agreement drawn up. Visitation and how much money he pays you for child support. You are setting precedent now, don't let him set the precedent.
Posted By: pinhead

Re: LBS Script & Flying on Instruments - 08/12/10 02:36 PM

Originally Posted By: Coach
Quote:
Then I should listen to her? Just validate? That seems pretty manipulative. Trying to control her.


How is listening and validating controlling or manipulative?

Asking her if you should put the deposit down is controlling and manipulative. That's not your business.


Agreed about the deposit. Looking back, I was trying to get some type of response.

But isn't that the same with asking her about divvying up possessions?
Posted By: Coach

Re: LBS Script & Flying on Instruments - 08/12/10 02:47 PM

Quote:
But isn't that the same with asking her about divvying up possessions?


Who's possesion's are they? Wouldn't you have a say in what you get?

She wants out. What needs to happen on your end to make that happen?

"I have decided that this isn't working for me. You have 2 weeks to find a place to stay. Here is our visitation schedule and the financial agreement. We will need to seperate furniture and other household items. I will work on that Saturday, I would like you to help if you don't help then my choices stand."

You say you want out of limbo then get busy.
Posted By: pinhead

Re: LBS Script & Flying on Instruments - 08/12/10 02:50 PM

I can't force her out. She's on the mortgage as well as I am. She'll just dig in her heals. And I don't want to leave my home.
Posted By: Coach

Re: LBS Script & Flying on Instruments - 08/12/10 02:54 PM

Quote:
I can't force her out. She's on the mortgage as well as I am. She'll just dig in her heals. And I don't want to leave my home.


You assumed alot there. Enjoy limbo.
Posted By: LRT Land

Re: LBS Script & Flying on Instruments - 08/12/10 02:57 PM

coach - do you think the emotional play applies equally to men and women?
Posted By: Coach

Re: LBS Script & Flying on Instruments - 08/12/10 03:02 PM

Quote:
coach - do you think the emotional play applies equally to men and women?


Yes. But it's not a magic bullet. People need to feel and think thru their actions and the consequences.

Look at the emotional responses the men go thru here when they see their world being split.
Posted By: gr8 day 2B alive

Re: LBS Script & Flying on Instruments - 08/12/10 03:08 PM

Quote:
You say you want out of limbo then get busy.


Remember YOU have a choice too.

It wasn't until I made the choice to get things going that woke W up.

Now she has been more responsive, even communicating with me. (although not very well)

Take a stand. Show her (lead, right coach?) that you are OK with moving on w/o her.
Posted By: pinhead

Re: LBS Script & Flying on Instruments - 08/12/10 03:08 PM

Originally Posted By: Coach
Quote:
I can't force her out. She's on the mortgage as well as I am. She'll just dig in her heals. And I don't want to leave my home.


You assumed alot there. Enjoy limbo.


So I give her the "It's not working speech, with a 2 week deadline." She doesn't want to move out that quickly, how can I move her out? Pack her stuff up? Be a jerk? She's already complained that she feels I'm kicking her out. I'm trying to be assertive with her, but other than me leaving my house, which I won't do, I don't see any alternative.

So in order to get her out in 2 weeks I should:

1. Tolerate her foot-dragging and hope she decides to move by then.
2. Physically move her stuff out, change the locks, etc.
3. Be firm in our discussions, with nothing to back them up however.
4. Move out myself, risking a charge of abandonment which will hurt my chances at custody.
Posted By: Puppy Dog Tails

Re: LBS Script & Flying on Instruments - 08/12/10 03:28 PM

Pinhead,

You can start by completely eliminating from your thought process, whether or not she thinks you're a "jerk."

I'm not saying to intentionally BE one -- in fact, you should be cordial and polite -- but that she may THINK you're being one should have NOT ONE WHIT to do with your decision-making process.

Puppy
Posted By: pinhead

Re: LBS Script & Flying on Instruments - 08/12/10 03:55 PM

Aye, worrying about her opinion is unproductive. I was just thinking that by acting like a jerk, she'd be more motivated to move away, sooner. But it wouldn't work, she knows I'm not a jerk, and all it would do is reinforce the fact that she has such a strong influence on me.
Posted By: futureunknown

Re: LBS Script & Flying on Instruments - 08/12/10 04:10 PM

Quote:

I'm confused about how to balance all the different advice.

Just be gone.

Stop talking to your wife, you seem to go backwards every time you do.

So I have spent more time away from the house and not talking to her. Now I will be moving. now I am reading to pay attention, listen and tune in.

How do I balance all this?

Sometimes I feel like I have dropped the rope, but lots of times I don't either. I know I don't validate like I should, somehow I always end-up defending myself instead because I am being attacked.

I've tried to follow links of guys that are slightly ahead of me in the process, but things are never exactly the same and we sometimes leap-frog each other.

I just don't know anymore. All I get from her is cold. We did get into it a bit after our court date last week Tuesday. We talked for quite a while in the middle of the afternoon when my brother was at my house. It wasn't very productive. We never seem to have time alone anymore because the kids stay up so late now that we go to bed just about the same time they do.

I wish there was some easy way for me to know what to do, because I just can't seem to figure it out. And continuing to talk about it seems to make it harder for me to drop the rope completely.

I think it will be much easier once I am out of the house. I won't be talking to her unless it is about transferring the kids or if she bring something up. My understanding is that that is the right way to proceed?


My sitch isn't resolved, so obviously I'm no expert, but I am learning. I was very confused at the beginning too, and I made some mistakes. I was pretty good about not pursuing, and GALing, but my biggest mistake was not setting and enforcing strong boundaries. I think if I was able to do that from the beginning, I would have shaved a year off my sitch.

The key is to try your best to turn the tables in your mind. Take ALL pressure off her. Let her feel your loss, let her wonder what's going on in YOUR head. Deal with what needs to be dealt with, with grace and dignity and strength. If she crosses a boundary, decisively let her know. If she comes to you to talk, THAT's when to pay attention and tune in. Listen, validate, let her feel that you care about her. If she tries to unfairly blame you, call her on that crap. Be strong, use humor, show her a confident man, then be gone again. If she hits you with things you're not expecting, just say "Hmmm... I need to think about that, I'll get back to you."

Try to imagine that YOU'RE the one who's not that interested, make HER work to get YOUR attention, but when you decide to give it to her, be there 100%. Make every interaction with her positive, even consider enforcement of a boundary a POSITIVE thing. Just because she throws a little fit doesn't mean it wasn't positive. She will respect you for it.

When you're so emotionally wrapped up it's virtually impossible to get into the right mindset. Trust me, I know! That's why detachment is so important. Create a vision of your future without her in it, and MAKE IT a GOOD THING. That was the secret to detachment for me. Although we all hate the idea of our M ending, there are some good things about not being M. Marriage means certain restrictions and obligations, in exchange for certain comforts and security. It's a trade off.
Posted By: futureunknown

Re: LBS Script & Flying on Instruments - 08/12/10 04:12 PM

Quote:

So I give her the "It's not working speech, with a 2 week deadline." She doesn't want to move out that quickly, how can I move her out? Pack her stuff up? Be a jerk? She's already complained that she feels I'm kicking her out.


Enforcement of a boundary is NOT being a jerk. Took me my whole life up until about six months ago to finally understand that!
Posted By: Puppy Dog Tails

Re: LBS Script & Flying on Instruments - 08/12/10 04:17 PM

Originally Posted By: futureunknown
Quote:

I'm confused about how to balance all the different advice.

Just be gone.

Stop talking to your wife, you seem to go backwards every time you do.

So I have spent more time away from the house and not talking to her. Now I will be moving. now I am reading to pay attention, listen and tune in.

How do I balance all this?

Sometimes I feel like I have dropped the rope, but lots of times I don't either. I know I don't validate like I should, somehow I always end-up defending myself instead because I am being attacked.

I've tried to follow links of guys that are slightly ahead of me in the process, but things are never exactly the same and we sometimes leap-frog each other.

I just don't know anymore. All I get from her is cold. We did get into it a bit after our court date last week Tuesday. We talked for quite a while in the middle of the afternoon when my brother was at my house. It wasn't very productive. We never seem to have time alone anymore because the kids stay up so late now that we go to bed just about the same time they do.

I wish there was some easy way for me to know what to do, because I just can't seem to figure it out. And continuing to talk about it seems to make it harder for me to drop the rope completely.

I think it will be much easier once I am out of the house. I won't be talking to her unless it is about transferring the kids or if she bring something up. My understanding is that that is the right way to proceed?


My sitch isn't resolved, so obviously I'm no expert, but I am learning. I was very confused at the beginning too, and I made some mistakes. I was pretty good about not pursuing, and GALing, but my biggest mistake was not setting and enforcing strong boundaries. I think if I was able to do that from the beginning, I would have shaved a year off my sitch.

The key is to try your best to turn the tables in your mind. Take ALL pressure off her. Let her feel your loss, let her wonder what's going on in YOUR head. Deal with what needs to be dealt with, with grace and dignity and strength. If she crosses a boundary, decisively let her know. If she comes to you to talk, THAT's when to pay attention and tune in. Listen, validate, let her feel that you care about her. If she tries to unfairly blame you, call her on that crap. Be strong, use humor, show her a confident man, then be gone again. If she hits you with things you're not expecting, just say "Hmmm... I need to think about that, I'll get back to you."

Try to imagine that YOU'RE the one who's not that interested, make HER work to get YOUR attention, but when you decide to give it to her, be there 100%. Make every interaction with her positive, even consider enforcement of a boundary a POSITIVE thing. Just because she throws a little fit doesn't mean it wasn't positive. She will respect you for it.

When you're so emotionally wrapped up it's virtually impossible to get into the right mindset. Trust me, I know! That's why detachment is so important. Create a vision of your future without her in it, and MAKE IT a GOOD THING. That was the secret to detachment for me. Although we all hate the idea of our M ending, there are some good things about not being M. Marriage means certain restrictions and obligations, in exchange for certain comforts and security. It's a trade off.



whistle whistle whistle whistle


Yes, it's the highly-coveted (and Not Available in Stores) "Puppy's '4 Whistles' Award!"


Puppy
Posted By: steady

Re: LBS Script & Flying on Instruments - 08/12/10 05:25 PM

Pinhead, sorry to jump in here, but Coach and Pupppy, tbart is on the edge of possible reconciliation and I was wondering if you guys could take a look at his thread and give him some advice. I have absolutely no experience with piecing.

tbarts thread
Posted By: Espr444

Re: LBS Script & Flying on Instruments - 08/12/10 07:45 PM

I agree that was well put. As tough as it is moving foward is probbly the best thing to do. Who knows what can happen in the end; except that our future could be better either way.
Posted By: Coach

Re: LBS Script & Flying on Instruments - 08/13/10 02:48 PM

http://www.ted.com/talks/philip_zimbardo_prescribes_a_healthy_take_on_time.html

Past, present or future.

Where are your thoughts and actions taking you?
Posted By: idontunderstand

Re: LBS Script & Flying on Instruments - 08/18/10 10:30 PM

Coach-

If you could do me a favor and check out my last couple of posts and maybe give me some insights. Is she softening a little or just feeling guilty? Were there any moments like this with you and Greek?

It seems like we're on the brink of something. Good or bad, either way is better than this. Or, am I over analyzing?

Just looking for a heads up, I guess.

Thanks.
Posted By: 40andsadintexas

Re: LBS Script & Flying on Instruments - 08/19/10 01:26 PM

After staying awake all of last night and searching for waw I still have not found the thread every one was talking about the waw script could someone please post a link to that. It would be nice to have some insights to the wild ride my wife is taking me on.
Posted By: A_goodman

Re: LBS Script & Flying on Instruments - 08/19/10 06:49 PM

Coach,

I love the idea for this thread. I think the problem that affects most of us as newbies is that we're only rated for VFR. And unfortunately, we all ended up flying into IMC before any of us got any training. So here we sit. In the soup. No way out but learn to fly on instruments or buy the farm.

The analogy is a very good one and explains why we all make so many damn mistakes. The instruments contradict what our senses are telling us. Add to it the panic associated with certain death looming, and the urge to follow instinct is overwhelming. It's a primeval drive. The instruments are what our brains are telling us is right, but the instincts are all feelings, strong desperate feelings. You guys (You, Sandi, Pup, R2C and the other "vets") are the tower trying to talk us out of the mayday. And thank God for you. I wonder how many guys (and gals) auger in without ever finding the right freq and hitting the mic key for some help. It's a sad way to go. All alone out there. Knowing its coming, but never seeing it. Or popping out 300 ft AGL in a death spiral when you thought you were straight and level.

The problem is of course that even with the best guy in the tower, a lot of us just can't master it without the proper training. Or run the tanks dry before we ever find an opening. And sometimes, the conditions are too bad and even if you do everything right, it's out of your hands.

I’m really trying to stay focused and listen when the tower gives me advice and instructions. It’s hard, but it’s not just my tail on the line. I wish it was. I wish I was flying the proverbial “cargo plane full of rubber dog Sh_t out of Hong Kong”. But the three “souls on board” include my kids. I REALLY don’t want to screw this up. It’s the only thing keeping me from punching out right now.

I hate to seem stupid, but aside from the specific examples cited, what are the general things to expect. How can I learn to “peek around the corners” As Dan has said, a lot of this seems contradictory. I’m struggling with validating, yet calling BS when it’s needed. I face the same problem with defending myself. That was good advice Coach. Of course her words cannot actually hurt me, unless I let them. I will keep that in mind and not get baited any more. Also, I detached well, then realized I was being cold and unkind in my dealings with W. So I re-read a lot of posts and have been able to affect a happier more cheerful demeanor. But now face the challenge of not being seen as the doormat I used to be. She sensed my change in attitude and started trying (or unconsciously fell back into) her old patterns. I am doing ok standing up when needed, but either get puffed up and come off as a jerk, or walk away wondering if I was strong enough. And the “agree with them always” argument has always seemed out of step with the “don’t take any CB argument”. It’s confusing sometimes.

I know that certain instruments lag others. Is that the case in this as well?

I know it’s stupid to think there are specific rules that will work EXACTLY the same for each of us, but I’m glad for this thread and the WAW script thread. Please keep going.
Posted By: A_goodman

Re: LBS Script & Flying on Instruments - 08/19/10 06:52 PM

40inTX,

I'll look for the WAW Thread and try to link it here. I read it a long time ago, but it's probably still up.

Cheers.
Posted By: 40andsadintexas

Re: LBS Script & Flying on Instruments - 08/19/10 07:26 PM

Man were in the exact same plane
Posted By: Coach

Re: LBS Script & Flying on Instruments - 08/19/10 07:56 PM

Quote:
And the “agree with them always” argument has always seemed out of step with the “don’t take any CB argument”.


Simple:

Agree with what she feels and what she thinks.

CB - is when she tells you what you think/feel/believe or is doing something that is unacceptable (boundary).
Posted By: dad1b1g

Re: LBS Script & Flying on Instruments - 08/19/10 08:42 PM

thank you AG, I could have written the same thing (not so well though). I feel the same confusion. I think I am doing something only to find out I've missed the boat on something even more damaging.
Posted By: FaithnAK

Re: LBS Script & Flying on Instruments - 08/19/10 09:11 PM

Originally Posted By: A_goodman

I'll look for the WAW Thread and try to link it here.


I'd be very interested in this link as well. Not sure if I've read it.
Posted By: DanF

Re: LBS Script & Flying on Instruments - 08/20/10 01:35 PM

I don't think it exists.
Posted By: A_goodman

Re: LBS Script & Flying on Instruments - 08/20/10 01:50 PM

Dan, you might be right. I looked back to before we were on and I can't find it. Ive read so many posts maybe I'm just imagining it. Sounds like a good topic for a new thread!
Posted By: CD Bear

Re: LBS Script & Flying on Instruments - 08/20/10 02:01 PM

Hey, PDT.

Fancy meeting you here.

Originally Posted By: Chuck66

If my wife wants a S because the D is taking to long do I ask her how many boxes I need to get for her stuff? Do I purchase said boxes?
Do I remind her that our auto insurance is almost due in a month or two and I will have to remove her from my policy and it will no longer have the multi-car discount?

Originally Posted By: Puppy

Yes, yes, yes, yes and yes.


Not to sound dumb, but in my mind (and sitch) since WAW's generally feet-drag, all of the above would require LBS to initiate contact.
In my case, I just packed all her stuff. She still doesn't know it's all neatly piledin boxes in the garage.

So should I initiate the contact to:
-get "us" out of our truck lease and have her make arrangements to get her own vehicle?
-call insurance company to call her to set up her own insurance (or tell W to call them)?

Thanks, PDT

Gonna put this on my thread, too
Posted By: gr8 day 2B alive

Re: LBS Script & Flying on Instruments - 02/25/11 07:11 PM

Bump for newbies
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