If you guys have been following my thread, I did not expect what just happened. W and I were talking on her lunch break, discussing our M. She said you dont even want to try, she said you have been pushing me further away, I said I was giving you space. She said you dont want to work on M. She left the doorbell rang 2 minutes later and I was served with divorce papers. I am crushed right now.
If you guys have been following my thread, I did not expect what just happened. W and I were talking on her lunch break, discussing our M. She said you dont even want to try, she said you have been pushing me further away, I said I was giving you space. She said you dont want to work on M. She left the doorbell rang 2 minutes later and I was served with divorce papers.
Her Kung Fu is strong.
Because, you know, it's the person who has been threatening divorce and has you served divorce papers that really wants to work on the marriage
I give that deflection 100 pts easy.
WoW. Sorry brother. That "you" talk is a bunch of crap. Im was getting that too. That "You" means "me". I sorry for you. Bounce back quick.
That's always been my biggest concern with the LRT strategy in terms of spouses who have felt neglected. I know that often when I pull away, my W has felt like I'm cold and withdrawn.
Hang in there dSH. It's not over til the fat lady sings.
W just called me, I asked her when did she decide to file, she said she didnt thinnk I would care, since I told her to go, then she said why do you want to talk about this now? I told her I do not want a divorce, she said you havent seemed to care one way or the other lately. She was at work and said she needed to go, I said can we talk later, she said "maybe".
Help me out here, I need to be prepared when she gets home on how to handle this, I am not going to beg but i do think she was looking for me to fight for her and I have not done that at all, I have given her space.
Just be strong and speak from your heart. Thats all you can do. Right now what is done is done. Just be honest but strong-IMO
First off. BREATH!! slow down. This is a long process. It can go as fast and as slow as you want (2 years plus).
This is all about POWER and CONTROL. It's a pissing contest. She is just trying to get a REACTION. Dont REACT but RESPOND in a day or so.
Just use this OPPORTUNITY to VALIDATE her feelings. Just shut up and listen and say "I can understand how you could feel that way..."
Then let her know that you will not stand in her way but you do not believe in quiting or divorce as an option.
Show her RESPECT by listening and not interupting. Show your STRENGTH.
Just stay calm, cool and collected.
PMA
Hmm. I would suggest staying strong, and taking control of the situation. That you will
- Go to MC and give this a real effort if she'll stop the D proceedings
- Spend 1 hour a night with her doing SOMETHING with your undivided attention.
- That you do not think divorce is the right option now unless every stone has been unturned.
That's what you offer I think.
That's always been my biggest concern with the LRT strategy in terms of spouses who have felt neglected. I know that often when I pull away, my W has felt like I'm cold and withdrawn.
Hang in there dSH. It's not over til the fat lady sings.
Call bull$hit on that one. Cause that is EXACTLY what it is: I (WA) want out and you (LBS) won't beg me to stay. You won't allow me to manipulate you anymore, therefore, you must be
cold. Don't fall for it.
DSH, take a deep breath. As someone else pointed out (sorry, don't recall which poster), this is not an immediate process. My H served me last month. L contested. H has a good 2 year wait.
I would advise you to allow your W to come to you w/R & M talk. I wouldn't initiate it, but would listen when/if she does. Listen, validate. When speaking to her, make it about her. Not you or your feelings.
Call bull$hit on that one. Cause that is EXACTLY what it is: I (WA) want out and you (LBS) won't beg me to stay. You won't allow me to manipulate you anymore, therefore, you must be cold. Don't fall for it.
Agreed. It's a double standard, the very things you wan to do, beg, plead, change overnight, are the very things a WAS NEEDS to self justify and break the gravity from the LBS. When that is cut off from them, things change, they are not in control of the situation as they thought they'd be. Thus, you are doing the right thing.
That's always been my biggest concern with the LRT strategy in terms of spouses who have felt neglected. I know that often when I pull away, my W has felt like I'm cold and withdrawn.
Hang in there dSH. It's not over til the fat lady sings.
Call bull$hit on that one. Cause that is EXACTLY what it is: I (WA) want out and you (LBS) won't beg me to stay. You won't allow me to manipulate you anymore, therefore, you must be
cold. Don't fall for it.
Oh I recognize it now. But before I became a Jedi, I fell for it everytime.
Oh I recognize it now. But before I became a Jedi, I fell for it everytime.
LOL,
Much to learn, you still have.
Oh I recognize it now. But before I became a Jedi, I fell for it everytime.
H used to call me Spock. Which is
mighty handy when dealing w/his craziness.
She has no clue how bad this could really become. Our credit has been shot due to my business with my partners and the fact I have not received a steady paycheck in months. We have no equity in the home we are in, thanks to the market, and she put in the papers she wants to stay in the house with the kids, but she cant afford it. I have enough money set aside to go rent a new place tomorrow. I am going to go get the kids and hit the gym, she had the nerve to ask me to stop by her work so she can give the kids a treat, UMMM I just got served papers, is it normal for her to be on her high horse right now seeing me in shock? it is not even phasing her one bit?
You should have 30 days to file an appearance (or your attorney that is). Then, as noted above, a good attorney can slow this down or speed it up as you wish.
Be careful about moving out of the house. In some states it is viewed as abandonment.
Re the LRT - all I can say is it is working for me. My H hadn't actually filed, but he gave an attorney a retainer and I received a letter stating that was what was going to happen.
This is happening really fast, 1 month ago she was sending me pics of her and the kids, saying "we love you" now papers? I am going nutz need to go throw weights around, and I need a kick in the @ss from Robx????
Go read Divorce Remedy. Go right to the LRT section. You have at least a month before you have to file anything (it should say that in the papers) and also find out if your state requires mediation. States often do when children are involved. That's usually a great delay tactic.
Do or do not, there is no try.
I guess my first reaction was F her, if this is what she wants she can have it. Emotions, emotions I believe she did this off of emotions, and not really thinking it through. The last few days I have been distant and chipper, which I am sure pissed her off, thinking he doesnt give a sh!t so I will show him?? Like PMA said, its a pissing contest. I have told her its not what I want, and when she gets home I wont bring it up. I will wait a few days and see if she brings it up?
W just texted me and said, leaving work going to store do you need yogurt for your breakfast?? WHo the hell am I married too? Is she trying to be nice so i go along with her plan? I keep osting like a friggin teenager this is really frustrating.
WHo the hell am I married too? Is she trying to be nice so i go along with her plan? I keep osting like a friggin teenager this is really frustrating
.
Calm down and stop trying to read her mind.
Logically, the only thing you can do is take the papers to your attorney and start the process.
Don't Panic (from Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy).
Stop fighting her. She levelled a guilt trip on you, and it's working from what I can read.
She has no clue how bad this could really become. Our credit has been shot due to my business with my partners and the fact I have not received a steady paycheck in months. We have no equity in the home we are in, thanks to the market, and she put in the papers she wants to stay in the house with the kids, but she cant afford it. I have enough money set aside to go rent a new place tomorrow. I am going to go get the kids and hit the gym, she had the nerve to ask me to stop by her work so she can give the kids a treat, UMMM I just got served papers, is it normal for her to be on her high horse right now seeing me in shock? it is not even phasing her one bit?
Yes she's gloating,
you took her power away when she originally asked you to leave. This divorce process was probably in place for quite some time, remember it's only been 2 weeks since you were supposed to leave the house as per original demands. She asked you to leave, you've been reading her journal, where in that little book of hers did she write that she loved you and hoped you would fight for the marriage just like she was?
I'll answer that.... no where did she write any of this stuff.
Don't move out, you can shelve those plans to rent a new place.
Let her be.
And don't be her puppy dog either,
jumping at her every request.
If she doesn't want to be with you, let her go.
No amount of kissing her a$$ now is going to do any good,
don't you remember that you felt like she was fishing for information, via email a week ago about your counseling, about your drinking, she kept asking you about you being an alcoholic, hoping you would admit something via email, she's been planning this for quite some time already. That's why we told you not to reply to her emails with any details via email, she was stockpiling information.
Let her go.
Her staying in the home is just a dream of hers,
when you reply to the d filing, you can write the same thing in there as well, you want to stay in the house with the kids.
W just texted me and said, leaving work going to store do you need yogurt for your breakfast?? WHo the hell am I married too? Is she trying to be nice so i go along with her plan? I keep osting like a friggin teenager this is really frustrating.
I would have told her,
"yeah I need yogurt" and give her a list of things you want her to buy, no worries.
She's trying to be nice because even though she felt all big and strong with her serving you divorce paperwork, a part of her feels guilty about what's happening now, you're ok, no worries, you can handle this.
This is happening really fast, 1 month ago she was sending me pics of her and the kids, saying "we love you" now papers? I am going nutz need to go throw weights around, and I need a kick in the @ss from Robx????
You're fine,
stop running around like a chicken with it's head cut off,
remember part of this was you learning how to respond and react to these situations without flying off the handle, you'll get through this.
I guess my first reaction was F her, if this is what she wants she can have it. Emotions, emotions I believe she did this off of emotions, and not really thinking it through. The last few days I have been distant and chipper, which I am sure pissed her off, thinking he doesnt give a sh!t so I will show him?? Like PMA said, its a pissing contest. I have told her its not what I want, and when she gets home I wont bring it up. I will wait a few days and see if she brings it up?
Aside from the "f her" part,
your thought about "if this is what she wants she can have it." is exactly right.
If this is what she wants, give it to her.
She's been emotional this whole time, up & down, grumpy, moody, angry, sad, then happy.
Don't worry about telling her that a divorce is not what you want, what YOU want is someone who wants to be with you without all this drama and if she's going to act like this, you have your answer.
Why would you want to be with someone who doesn't want to be with you?
I keep osting like a friggin teenager this is really frustrating.
from urban dictionary, osting: To overcome seemingly unsurmountable odds surprising everyone around that person.
Jose pulled off an Osting yesterday at the game.nice.
To be honest Rob, I don't care about the house the taxes are behind as well as the mortgage. I have about 12k saved up and to get the house current would take 10 of that. I am half tempted to give it to the bank anyway, and move on. W came home from the store put groceries away, and has crawled up to her room with a catalog and shut the door.
I am letting her be. Part of me wants to not catch up on the house, she can't do it on her own. I can at least rent a decent place and make a better environment for the kids. The best she could do is a 2 BR apartment. I don't know if I even want to hire a L. I could probably handle it myself.
I do agree its probably something that she has been planning for a while. Like I said playing me like a fiddle. The paperwork also stated something about anger management and if I am not in a program asked the court to insist I go in one. Such BS.
So I can play hardball and tell her guess what? I am not going to get house caught up, you need to plan on finding a place to move to since I am going to contact the bank and let them know. I don't see anywhere in the court papers that says I have to keep paying on the house or anything like that.
Also I did listen and did not put anything in email form so she doesn't have anything there either.
focus on taking care of yourself and being a good dad to your kids, the best father they can have, let your wife do what she wants to do, you can't stop her even if you want to so don't waste your energy in that direction.
As for your house, that's your personal call, it's your home, its your decision.
Also I did listen and did not put anything in email form so she doesn't have anything there either.
good man, we had a feeling she was up to something, let her continue on her clue hunting and you continue doing what you're doing.
Yes it is my call. I do feel I need to let her know my intentions with the house. I don't want to be a total d!ck. She needs to start seeing the reality here. And its not going to be pretty for her.
She needs to start seeing the reality here. And its not going to be pretty for her.
If you want to explain the finances related to the house, go ahead. If you're expecting "her to see the reality", then you are going to be sadly disappointed, I expect.
She doesn't want the life she has now: the house, the husband, the family. She probably feels there has to be something more, that this is not who SHE is. She may feel like she is living a lie right now.
How is talking finances going to change that? If anything, it's just a sad reminder of just how lost she is which is probably how she feels a lot of the time right now.
The only thing you can do that isn't going to cause more grief is start agreeing with her while she pulls away. If she wants a divorce, give her a divorce, but protect your own interests, protect your kids.
Stop trying to pull her back or she will fight to get away even more. Don't focus on how YOU feel (your feelings will be changing a lot and often: over the next few months, if you do the work, you will go from sad, to angry, to happy, and back through it all a couple of times, so you cannot act on your feelings).
Warning: Nothing you have ever seen in a romantic comedy is going to change things.
Your mission is to focus on protecting yourself, your kids, getting a life, and moving forward. Embrace the challenge, and it will change you for the better. God (the Universe or whatever you want to call it) is offering you an opportunity to grow in ways you didn't even know you can grow. If you embrace it one tiny step at a time, you will grow into a happier, healthier, more confident person.
Can embracing the change save your marriage or revive it after death? It can, but it might not, but you won't reget it.
I should note that things like house finances, etc are probably better off done through your attorney, however.
You can't stop this divorce. She filed, you have 30 days to respond, the divorce is on, and only she can stop it.
TH,
True,
We did talk for about 2 hours. I did explain the sitch with the house and told her whether we were goingthrough what we are or if things were good, I would still look at giving the house back to the bank.
I let her talk most the time, she told me she met with a L last week and filed yesterday. She said that after I told her I wouldnt stop her on the divorce she said she figured I didnt want M either. Told her I did want the M, but that I wouldnt stop the D.
All in all it was a good talk. We will see how things go from here.
That's always been my biggest concern with the LRT strategy in terms of spouses who have felt neglected. I know that often when I pull away, my W has felt like I'm cold and withdrawn.
Hang in there dSH. It's not over til the fat lady sings.
Call bull$hit on that one. Cause that is EXACTLY what it is: I (WA) want out and you (LBS) won't beg me to stay. You won't allow me to manipulate you anymore, therefore, you must be
cold. Don't fall for it.
If it was me I would be wary of using the LRT on the WAS who felt neglected. If they felt "invisible, "you don't understand/see me," or "unloved" then you need to be able to show love (lovingly detach), don't put up with CB (boundaries) and take care of yourself (GAL). How are you going to change their feelings of neglect? How would you make them feel "seen," understood, supported, cared for and loved? Which feelings are you trying to validate?
I understand the detaching can appear cold. Activity creates warmth.
That's a very interested observation on those who feel "invisible."
While activity does create warmth, what specifically can be done to detach with love without feeling cold?
TH,
True,
We did talk for about 2 hours. I did explain the sitch with the house and told her whether we were goingthrough what we are or if things were good, I would still look at giving the house back to the bank.
I let her talk most the time, she told me she met with a L last week and filed yesterday. She said that after I told her I wouldnt stop her on the divorce she said she figured I didnt want M either. Told her I did want the M, but that I wouldnt stop the D.
All in all it was a good talk. We will see how things go from here.
Here is a recent quote from OIN's thread,
read it and understand it:
Yes an inspiration..
BUT do you understand the dynamics of the exact thing that turned HER around? Do you know when that moment came? Or do you actually believe it was his "hanging in there and not giving up" was what did it? (you are WRONG if you believe that)
It was when he told her AND showed her that he FINALLY understood that no matter what he did that he now realized that she did NOT want to stay married and would never love him again and that he was going to STOP trying to show her how sorry he was and he was going to stop trying to win her back....(and THEN he followed through on that)
THAT was HER turning point. It was when he told her he was giving up winning her back... She THEN wrote him the letter and then told him she wanted to try..
I get torn between the 2. I have been doing the LRT pretty much from the beginning and it has pushed her further away.
So do I at least not try another tactic?
Rule number 1. Stop doing what doesnt work. You are the only real expert of your sitch. Keep on trying different things until they work.
W told me she loves me and has felt neglected during our whole M. So by going totally dark and going along with it seems to be putting the nail in the coffin.
Rule number 1. Stop doing what doesnt work. You are the only real expert of your sitch. Keep on trying different things until they work.
W told me she loves me and has felt neglected during our whole M. So by going totally dark and going along with it seems to be putting the nail in the coffin.
Exactally. From what I read above, your sitch is close to the same as mine, minus a few.
I found that going dark unless It was needed, didn't work. What I did find is that validating her feelings did. Listen closely to what she has to say. Try not to put the focus on yourself when you do talk, but see what she is missing in the M.
Next start doing your 180's.
As for the D papers, that is when you let the L handle it. When I went to find a L, I told him that you look out and protect me and I will work on my M. Then you do that. Don't focus on the papers.Actually they gave me the incentive to work harder on my 180 and GAL.
If what she is saying is true, and if she doesn't have another man in the wings, then what she is telling you is important information. Have you neglected her?
There is an article called "Why Women Leave Men" by W. Harley. He says that the #1 reason women leave and file for divorce is neglect: it isn't abuse, or infidelity or finances or addiction issues, it is feeling neglected.
Not sure if it applies to you, WAWs tend to rewrite history to suit their mood, but if it even smells faintly true then stop distancing yourself from her immediately. Pay attention to her. Do a 180 with your behavior and engage with her. And if she is just rewriting history then get ready for divorce.
Esox, in my case neglect is one of the things she claims, but also told me to stop being nice, don't do anything sweet, no compliments, etc. So what is one to do?
dad1b1g,
They'll do this.
One of mine was she forbid me to come to her house, with threat of police call on harrassment, but in the end complained that I wasn't coming to see them.
They make their own realities. They are spinning the situation as they see fit, and they will "prove" that it is not their fault.
but also told me to stop being nice, don't do anything sweet, no compliments, etc.
= pursuing
Detach = give her space, let her go, agree with her, take care of yourself, play with and love on your kids, prepare yourself to be divorced, prepare for a reconciliation, take care of your business, let go of your anger, show compassion when appropiate......
These are all ways to show love to a WAS while respecting yourself.
That's always been my biggest concern with the LRT strategy in terms of spouses who have felt neglected. I know that often when I pull away, my W has felt like I'm cold and withdrawn.
Hang in there dSH. It's not over til the fat lady sings.
Call bull$hit on that one. Cause that is EXACTLY what it is: I (WA) want out and you (LBS) won't beg me to stay. You won't allow me to manipulate you anymore, therefore, you must be
cold. Don't fall for it.
If it was me I would be wary of using the LRT on the WAS who felt neglected. If they felt "invisible, "you don't understand/see me," or "unloved" then you need to be able to show love (lovingly detach), don't put up with CB (boundaries) and take care of yourself (GAL). How are you going to change their feelings of neglect? How would you make them feel "seen," understood, supported, cared for and loved? Which feelings are you trying to validate?
I understand the detaching can appear cold. Activity creates warmth.
Bingo!
Pin which one are you saying bingo too? Nothing really new today stayed busy, havent heard from W all day. Like I said before she is going dark now, I am letting her be, but going to try a few things different, what do I have to lose at this point?
To Coach. My wife has always felt I'm not affectionate, and that I've neglected her.
Even though she's a WAS, it's a bit different than a sitch where the LRT is an obvious choice. For me, I've settled on some of it, GAL, detach, 180s, but also really focusing more on listening and being available for her.
So the trick for me is to give her non-threatening attention. Not to act as if I'm fine she's leaving, nor to push her out the door when she starts to be afraid.
"Esox, in my case neglect is one of the things she claims, but also told me to stop being nice, don't do anything sweet, no compliments, etc. So what is one to do?"
Ok. Then treat her as you would a friend. Listen to her when she talks to you. Don't try to solve her problems if she presents one, just listen.
As pinhead said, pay attention to her. Be fully there when you do happen to spend time together. Don't try to hug her, or get in relationship talks either.
Look carefully at what hasn't worked for you and stop doing those things.
The trick if no 3rd party is involved is to teach yourself the 4 steps of listening.
1. Shut up and listen!! Dont interupt.
2. Mirroring - Repeat back to them what they are saying. "So I hear you saying...."
3. Validate - "I can understand why you would feel like that..."
4. Empathy - "Now that you say it like that I would have felt the same way..."
I know pin, I did book her a massage and facial for the hell of it. If it doesn't show her something then oh well.
Is there OM in the picture?
And are W's complaints anything she voiced pre-bomb? Or were these things only brought to your attention at bomb drop?
Hi all,
There is no OM, and I have always been kinda a mans man, not much of an affectionate guy. So I guess the issues are that I have been neglecting her, and need to show some love(in a detaching way).
The W has buried herself with her family, our kids and 2 jobs. She has completely kept herself as busy as possible to remove herself from this. Sh ealso says she is not sleeping at all. I do not follow her around or bug her so it cant be me i guess keeping her from sleep.
She says she is paranoid around me, worried about her every move and how I will react. SHe says she has noticed changes in me, but does not believe they will stick, that is my M.O, work on changes and go back to the way it was.
She says she is paranoid around me
So I suppose getting together to start your own paint-ball team is out of the question?
TH,
That would be funny, yes out of the question on the paintball team.
I did speak with my L today, I am going to represent myself at the first hearing, with our first S I was awarded full custody, so I do have that in my court. My plan if it gets to that is to ask the Judge for custody on a 50/50 format, no child support either way and we split the assets down the middle. If that is not acceptable I will ask for a continuence to hire an attorney. I do not want to retain one at a couple grand right now, the papers I was served with are not asking for a whole lot, she is not trying to rake me over the coals.
went to celebrate recovery at church tonight. I am a newcomer so I sat with some of the organizers and discssed my issues. It was nice to get to talk about them without having to pay someone to listen and offer some feedback. I saw the W for about 2 seconds today and the only thing she brought up was the fact she was not notified by the bank about the pending foreclosure. I simply said would it have mattered? she said guess not. so not much conversation today at all.
helped put the kids to bed, W obviously got the card, which was pretty much a card that spoke of things in the past cannot be undone, the fact I reflect on problems and apologize for the hurting it caused. the end of the card says I love you and always will. She was given a single red rose and a gift card for a facial and back treatment. I gave it with no expectations, a little worried she was going to flip out about the cost, or say something like dont do things like that. Neither happened. She looked very tired, she was lying on the bed with our D falling asleep on her chest. She looked at me and said she is asleep. I walked over and picked our D up rocked her a bit and laid her down in her bed. W looked at me while I did this, got up and went in her room.
I finally have my laptop back and can type and journal from bed. I did not say anything about the gift, and I will not bring it up, again no expectations.
I tried something different, against Robx's advice which is probably why he isnt posting on my thread anymore
Our S pciked up the rose and said "mommy where did you get this from'? W says Daddy gave it to mommy.
So for now nothing really changed, still have time on my side.
At least she is still in the house. Mine gave me the same line ilybnilwy think that is it. And it is another guy, she has been talking about it on facebook and even carried on a conversation with a classmate about it today which I was CCd on. But she said I was the one that is nuts and phsyco, why cause he grabbed my hand begged me not to go and that he just wont give up letting me go was her excuse. So Im going to really focus on GAL and 180 wish me luck. (I dont hold hope out for us after what I read tonight) also the other man a police officer she and him are devising a plan so I dont know if I should expose this, go public or really how to handle it. I actually feeling a bit worried he might use his powers against me. I think he is also married and would love to find out how to get in touch with his spouse.
Well good luck man
Mark,
I am still involved in law enforcement. I work part time to keep my license active, just dont get paid for it
anyway, if she is getting involved with a police officer, you need to expose it. Depending on department policy, a lot of departments discourage anything like you are saying, they want their officers to be upstanding with morals and ethics. I say rock his world through his employer, It sickens me when people mess around with married people.
If he tries to use his powers, in my state that is considered offical oppression which is a felony. Law enforcement cannot use their authority to threaten or cause anyone harm outside of enforcing the law. Depending on your state most states do have some law in place for such actions. If he tries document it, report it and expose the pr!ck.
helped put the kids to bed, W obviously got the card, which was pretty much a card that spoke of things in the past cannot be undone, the fact I reflect on problems and apologize for the hurting it caused. the end of the card says I love you and always will. She was given a single red rose and a gift card for a facial and back treatment. I gave it with no expectations, a little worried she was going to flip out about the cost, or say something like dont do things like that. Neither happened. She looked very tired, she was lying on the bed with our D falling asleep on her chest. She looked at me and said she is asleep. I walked over and picked our D up rocked her a bit and laid her down in her bed. W looked at me while I did this, got up and went in her room.
I finally have my laptop back and can type and journal from bed. I did not say anything about the gift, and I will not bring it up, again no expectations.
I tried something different,
against Robx's advice which is probably why he isnt posting on my thread anymore Our S pciked up the rose and said "mommy where did you get this from'? W says Daddy gave it to mommy.
So for now nothing really changed, still have time on my side.
Bro,
you are my "brutha from anutha mutha",
I wouldn't abandon you because you aren't listening to my advice, my advice is given freely without a requirement for you to do anything other than read it and consider it.
I have seriously been busy at work, after work and sick as a dog, bronchitis and these antibiotics ain't doing a damn thing, I cough so hard my head/brain hurts after a while.
I haven't left you, I'm still here, just more active on some days when I'm feeling better.
As for your sitch,
you're doing ok and like I've said in the past, you can handle it. We had a feeling that she was fishing for stuff to possibly use against you in a divorce filing, the fact that she filed a couple weeks after asking you to leave suggests that this was in motion for some time now, filing for divorce and getting you served within 1-2 weeks is pretty darn fast for legal proceedings which leads me to believe it was probably filed more than a few weeks ago.
Keep doing what you're doing as for you are concerned,
take care of yourself and your kids, be the best person you can be for you first and your kids second, don't worry about your wife. You have gone through this before with your first separation and you have given her a wake up call as far as the house is concerned. Her working 2 jobs and having joint custody is going to prove to be a lot more work than she is anticipating plus now she has deal with the consequences of her decisions, she wants to divorce and with the looming spectre of the house issue, she'll have to find a place she can afford for herself and for the kids (and you will also).
The gift purchase is pursuing, you know it, that's why you're questioning it yourself but switching things up every now & then can't be a bad thing but I still consider it pursuing. She filed for divorce against you and you bought her gifts, that's like rewarding someone for bad behavior and that's something I don't do but I can't force anyone to adopt my views, just maybe think about it a little next time.
Have a good night, we'll talk to you guys tomorrow, for now, I'm pooped, long day at work and my chest and head are killing me ;-)
Hope you feel better soon Rob. Take care of yourself!
Thanks Rob,
yes it is pursueing, and yes she has moved quickly, I also think about the first S, I filed quickly then, maybe she was freaked that she needed to file before I did. Dont Know. Yes it will be a wake up call. I think her Dad is a driving force in this as well. He is 50 something divorced and lonely. He and I dont get along, I have told him in the past he was a sh!tty father. He is enabling her by giving her money for L and probably will give her money for a place, but he wont be an endless money tree.
Again, I am trying something different bcuz the other stuff wasnt working for M. But I want everyone to know I am working on me, and the fact that I am doing different things makes me feel better about myself, I can look back and say I tried
Trying new things is always a good idea, especially when what you've been doing isn't working. I've started different things than the LRT etc would normally suggest, but I think it's important to remember that DB/DR is a set of guides, not a rigid instruction set.
At least she is still in the house. Mine gave me the same line ilybnilwy think that is it. And it is another guy, she has been talking about it on facebook and even carried on a conversation with a classmate about it today which I was CCd on. But she said I was the one that is nuts and phsyco, why cause he grabbed my hand begged me not to go and that he just wont give up letting me go was her excuse. So Im going to really focus on GAL and 180 wish me luck. (I dont hold hope out for us after what I read tonight) also the other man a police officer she and him are devising a plan so I dont know if I should expose this, go public or really how to handle it. I actually feeling a bit worried he might use his powers against me. I think he is also married and would love to find out how to get in touch with his spouse.
Well good luck man
Handle it how its done in this situation. There are others who have had to get police officer's off of their spouses. You're going to have to find out the right way to do this, and get it done without telling them what your doing.
Pin,
I am trying to mix it up a bit. I have given her something to show some affection and love but I am also detached not showing to be needy showing strength. I guess the best way to put it is that I want to work on M, but if it doesnt happen I will move on.
With the pending house sitch, she basically has until the 1st to find a place to live. Or we rent a place together and keep working on us. She has not said anything about the gift nor has she made any arrangements for a place. I at least have been looking. I am going to ask her to watch the kids for part of the weekend so i can go look at some rentals. I will see if she offers to "come along".
The waiting game is what sucks. I know a lot of people here would rahter it be done, or get back to working on M, but we all have to wait.
As long as there is an affair partner in the marriage, you will not be able to move forward. Efforts with your spouse will set you back until they are gone.
DLS,
There isnt an affair. At least I havent found any evidence. I have looked pretty thoroughly, and I believe our sitch is just we are both unhappy.
and I believe our sitch is just we are both unhappy.
Well, I know why you are unhappy: your wife is divorcing you.
You've thrown out some ideas about why she is unhappy (e.g. neglect). Why do you think you "neglected" her? Just too familiar? Started to treat her like a guy buddy too much because she said you were her "best friend"? Turned her into your psychologist? Or did she try to become your mother in order to perfect you? I could go on and on, but...
What do you think happened?
IN CR last night, we talked about how men have no clue when it comes to intimacy. Not just sex but all the affection and love women need to feel fulfilled. I think a lot of WAW leave for the reason I am writing about. NEGLECT. Men often overlook it, and women often have an issue with telling their spouse they feel this way. Women get the idea that men should know, well we dont. Women feel that men should pick up on their hints and small leads that show they need more affection. Well obvioulsy we dont.
As far as my situation TH, WHen I would really have no interest in sex for a perid of time, my W felt I didnt want her, she did not feel wanted or needed. I explain to her that when I am stressed I have no interest. I have also dealt with low testosterone levels, which my W new about, and the Dr. said if your levels are as low as they have been no wonder you have no interest. I am also not a touchy feely guy, the W always wanted me to sit next to her during a movie or just watching TV. I would sit by myself, I am a personal space guy and dont like being close to anyone for very long.
These were all issues during our first S, I worked on them and slid back. THe issue is I can look back now and say "jesus why didnt I see myself sliding back" but at the time I just went along as if nothing has changed.
The W texted me and asked what time I dropped D off at daycare. responded and she replied with a K. I then simply wrote " I am working on a few things but since you have a busy day, if there is anything you need me to do, let me know. ANother way of me offering help for things, but if she doesnt respond i will leave it alone.
TH,
another thing about the "perfect you" statement. I think everyone feels they want to "mold" their perfect mate. But in reality, which most of them are not living in right now, that is not an option. People can change bad habits, but God made everyone to be themselves. Certain things can be changed, but not all, and especially not everything a WA wants changed in their spouse.
I am not getting something.
On the one hand, you claim that it was affectionate touching that she was missing, but on the other hand you say that acts of service is how you respond to this.
I am thinking that if it was touch that she was missing, then all the cards, roses, gifts, and kind acts of service in the world might not work to get through.
When was the last time you held her hand like it meant something?
TH,
I do understand what your asking, but she is too cold right now, and I feel when I am around her without the kids she would rather lock herself in a room. It is not at a point today where I can move to show her that kind of affection.
Then all you can do is GAL/PMA and RESPECT/ACCEPT where she's at.
Hold the line. PMA
PMA,
I am doing all the above. I respect her decision, I have let her know I accept it, but that I do not want the D. That is where I have left it.
I am thinking that if it was touch that she was missing, then all the cards, roses, gifts, and kind acts of service in the world might not work to get through.
The problem I have, as a woman, is once I feel detached the other person's touch would be unwelcome. They would have to woo me first - win me back. I think slow and steady wins the race in that situation.
I am thinking that if it was touch that she was missing, then all the cards, roses, gifts, and kind acts of service in the world might not work to get through.
The problem I have, as a woman, is once I feel detached the other person's touch would be unwelcome. They would have to woo me first - win me back. I think slow and steady wins the race in that situation.
How would you feel about non sexual touches, like on the shoulder, for instance?
LRT,
Thank you for stopping by, most of the posts have been from Men, so a woman's thought is appreciated. YOur statement is exactly why I have not tried to touch her in any way.
I felt the gift was a form of wooing and just a gesture of "you deserve it". If we werent at this point I would tell her how proud I am of her stepping up and working so much. The issue is she is doing it to build her own bank for the D I believe.
dsh - It's possible about the finances - I had a friend who did that very thing. However, don't mind read. And what does it matter? In the end that won't determine whether she stays or not. How she feels about you and the relationship will determine whether she stays.
making progress - I am not a "hugger." Having said that, as long as I have some connection to someone I don't mind being touched. The more intimate the touching the stronger the connection required. Hope that helps.
The problem I have, as a woman, is once I feel detached the other person's touch would be unwelcome. They would have to woo me first - win me back. I think slow and steady wins the race in that situation.
I don't disagree. I am just digging into "are acts of service and gifts the way to deal with this?".
My gut is telling me "validation": don't fight her or try to change her mind, don't get angry or upset, accept her. I could be wrong.
That is my point LRT, I am not doing anything to try and control the outcome. that would be having expectations, I am doing things that feel right to me at the time, hearing what she says, and acting on what feels appropriate at the time.
I think that instinct is often underestimated here. We know our WASs better than anyone usually, even though we have usually missed out on the incoming Bomb. Looking back, I knew a few years ago that something was eventually going to happen. I just wasn't mature enough to deal with it. Nobody around me had a 2x4 handy...
I left a card for my wife in her car last night. I didn't expect anything from it. It only had three words (not ILY). It felt appropriate, and when she read it, she went on to work instead of getting an axe and making mincemeat of me.
Instinct can get you into real trouble with pursuing, but at times, your instincts can really work wonders.
I am not doing anything to try and control the outcome.
Very good. Don't fake it, don't push it, and if you are not getting wound up wanting a particular result, then good.
Went to the gym, W is working at the kids daycare until midnight, its one of those drop hourly places that have become very popular the last couple of years. One of her friends reached out to me today, she is the only person that W confides in who will tell her she is making a bad decision. As I have said before W's family and I dont get along. The enable her big time. W texted me today and said she is going horseback riding on sunday. This friend is who has the horses, and has spoken with the W for the last 3 months about our sitch. of course our bomb didnt happen until about a month ago, the friend told me W was thinking about D 3 months ago, ROBX you were right once again. Anyway her friend said to me, you are the best thing that ever happened to W, she is still on love with you, very attracted to you, but balming you for her unhappiness(go figure).
The friend, who knows nothing about these sites or techniques has told me basically what is taught here. She says your W needs to know what life is like without you, she said go on as if you are done. I told her about the few nice things I have done, and she said, Hey thats ok, but at the same time you can be nice to your W you can also be nice and move on.
I think its funny though, WA's will not hang out with their friends who tell them they are messing up, this friend will tell her that and she is going to go hang out with her on Sunday. I think its interesting..... but I cant read in to it.
W also texted me and said her friend and her BF are joining us for church tomorrow night(another plus). I did text the wife earlier today and said if you need me to do anything for you today let me know. She didnt respond until before I dropped the kids off, she sent a text asking me to bring her something big and cold to drink. So I went by Sonic and got her favorite Route 44 powerade. She thanked me and I left the daycare.
I am going to text her and let her know I am going out to shoot some pool. She will probably get home b4 me and figured I would let her know.
I feel good today...
just got home from going out with some of the guys shooting pool. Drank diet coke and a couple of Odouls, saw some pretty women, wore my ring with pride and did not hear or get a text from the W all night. they were all in bed when got home. I did send her a text earlier that I was going out, she never responded. It is what it is, will see how the weekend goes.
Keeping it cool, dsh. Don't text her though.
im not going to text her today, we have plans to go to church tonight with some friends, the one friend is the friend I mentioned above who has told the W she is making a big mistake. So again a person who will not agree with W, has been invited to join us for church, like I said people dont want to hang out with people who tell them what they are doing is wrong. I think its interesting, I am going to get some laundry done, go to the gym then drop kids off to the W and go look at a house.
I forgot this morning, I was brushing my teeth and my D was sitting on te counter watching me. She likes to watch me brush my teeth and shave, a little odd but cute. Anyway W walked up to the bathroom door and said you can drop the kids off at the daycare today if you need to, I said thats ok I want to spend time with them. D got off the counter walked over and slammed the door in W's face. I didnt laugh but so wanted to. W pushed the door open and was pissed off at D. I kept brushing my teeth..... I thought it was classic!!!!!
I forgot this morning, I was brushing my teeth and my D was sitting on te counter watching me. She likes to watch me brush my teeth and shave, a little odd but cute. Anyway W walked up to the bathroom door and said you can drop the kids off at the daycare today if you need to, I said thats ok I want to spend time with them. D got off the counter walked over and slammed the door in W's face. I didnt laugh but so wanted to. W pushed the door open and was pissed off at D. I kept brushing my teeth..... I thought it was classic!!!!!
Good stuff right there
Got to love DADDIES GIRLS.. LOL My 2 y/o daughter is a daddies girl mommy gives more attention to our son 4 y/o so my baby girl knows how to play daddy like a fiddle... LOL. And guess what Im using it to my advantage right now. Same with my son too. I want them to go back to her happy and tired having so much fun. What sucks is her dad has money and is buying his and her ways to there hearts where I can not do that so its alot of attention love affection kisses hugs and taking them to do things like parks,swimming,festivals etc..
Tell your daughter high five and some ice cream should be in order.. LOL
I forgot this morning, I was brushing my teeth and my D was sitting on te counter watching me. She likes to watch me brush my teeth and shave, a little odd but cute. Anyway W walked up to the bathroom door and said you can drop the kids off at the daycare today if you need to, I said thats ok I want to spend time with them. D got off the counter walked over and slammed the door in W's face. I didnt laugh but so wanted to. W pushed the door open and was pissed off at D. I kept brushing my teeth..... I thought it was classic!!!!!
There is no "Like" button but if there was, I would have clicked on it, too cute, daughters tend to be protective of their dads, it's a respect thing, apparently mommy has done something to make your daughter angry ;-)
Mark,
I have learned over 5 years of parenting that objects and toys they enjoy, but time with them and attention is what shows true love for your children. QUALITY TIME BROTHER!!!!!
Robx, she is such the daddy's girl, she can sense tention and wants me to put her to bed and hold her, I am the protector of the family and the D knows it.
W texted me again and asked if I was going to drop off the kids at daycare, I sent one back that said i will think about it, I am going to take them to the gym first.
W texted me again and asked if I was going to drop off the kids at daycare, I sent one back that said i will think about it, I am going to take them to the gym first.
Dude, you have to get off this electronic leash. If you already told her, you should at least wait a couple of hours before you respond a simple, "No".
Let's suppose you divorce. On your days with your kids does your warden... err wife think she can call and check up on you constantly? No, she cannot unless she wants court ordered instructions on contact at some point.
So... take the kids to the gym? How about a park where you can ride a paddle boat or something? I dunno, get out, take the kids, screw day care.
TH,
your words are oh so comforting, LOL your right, I am going to just take them to the gym and run a couple of errands.
I did take the kids to playcare, I need to go look at a house. I picked up W's favorite Sushi Roll, which through her through a loop, she gave a smile I havent seen in months, I smiled back and left. No expectations, just another gesture on my part. Completely ignoring any types of nice things being done hasnt gotten me anywhere, so i say again trying to mix it up a bit.
Nobody said you ignore nice things she's done.
In fact, the idea is to go along with what is happening. She wants to leave and get a divorce, then you oblige with an OK, that probably for the best.
She wants to play nice, you return the favor. Nobody is saying, "be a jerk".
Just don't try to make her like you; don't disagree with her. "You don't want to be with anybody who doesn't want to be with you either" is one side of the coin.
TH,
I am not ignoring any good things from the W, she hasnt done anything nice to ignore. What I meant was I am mixing things up on my end. Went and looked at a house, funny thing it was the sme floorplan from Ryland homes as the first house W and I shared 8 years ago, isnt that friggin funny?!?!?!?! Any way I am taking the lead for my own life, going to get a house ready for moving to, need to talk to W aboout S school, since we wont be in this house any longer we need to figure out where he is going to go to school. The house I looked at is in the same ISD different elementary school though. With these new subdivision popping up everywhere the put a new school up in every neighborhood. So u leave the neighborhood and its a different school.
W is still cold, I might have gone to church with a complete stranger. Now I am getting to the point, actually I am at the point of just moving on, gonna talk with a L this week get one retained to file a counter against her petition. Of course the first hearing is 8 days after we are to be out of the house, she claims she wants to stay in.
I really don't know how she is going to go get a place with the kids in the next 3 weeks. She doesn't have the money unless her dad gives it to her. All I can do now is again, fight for custody and lead without her in my life.
I think you just need to let go. It dosn't mean anything other than letting go.
You just resolve to be fine and accept what is happening as it is happening.
You hire a lawyer to protect yourself, and so on, but you don't fight the idea of a divorce if that's what she wants.
Your right TH, we were putting the kids to bed, I said the D and S that they are running around with Daddy tomorrow while mommy is riding horses. W looked at me and said what are you doing tomorrow? I looked her right in the eyes and said looking for houses to move in to. She had a look on her face that was blank.........
so the friend who disagrees with the W, texted me last night and said W andI need to be friends first to love again. Friend says after talking with W she sees hope in us. I dont know what to do, I am going to look at houses today, and tonight I am going to remind the W we have 3 weeks to vacate the home. I would like to start going through property and seeing what I will take, she will take. I told the friend that the W is being a sellfish, spoiled brat and does not deserve my friendship.
I feel like throwing in the towel to be honest with you all.
W was leaving for Riding, and ireminded her we have 3 weeks to vacate. She said how long have you known this I tiold her friday. SHe is trying to manipulate me, she said I thought we were going to get a house, and you were going to stay part time at the house and part time at a friends. I said you filed for D, I have 4 weeks before a hearing, I am going to meet with a L this week and file an answer to the petition. She says so your plan all along was to find a house for yourself and leave me hanging. I reminded her you filed for D, we need to discuss a garage sale and splitting up stuff over the next week. SHe left pissed off, and I dont feel an ounce of guilt about it. I will enjoy my time with the kids today.
Big girl panties for her. Good for you.
yes she needs to put on her big girl panties, for the last 2 weeks she has been working and banking money, what i am doing is no different than her blindsiding me with the D, no warning no discussion.
3 weeks isn't alot of time to move and find a new place to live,
this needs to be your top priority right now, maybe find a temporary apartment for you and your kids while you're looking for a new home, seriously 3 weeks... it will go by very fast.
Leave the db'ing on the side for now, finding somewhere to live is #1 on your to-do list.
That is what Im doing Rob, I am looking at a few houses within 1-2 miles of our current house. Some are vacant and some are ready sept 1, I have the cash to get the landlord motivated for me to move quickly. The ting is the W has known for at least a week, and has done nothing about her own sitch. She is so self obsorbed with her feelings she has made no effort to move forward. I guess she assumed I would enable her by doing all the work for her except the D. Originally I told her I would represent myself, now she knows I plan on getting a L, she is steming now, but she needs to steam, reality check and needs to find her big girl panties.
Dsh, if your W finds her BGP, see if she has an extra pair to lend to my wife. She could use them...
Hang in there man, you sound like you have your head on straight, and your focus is locked in.
Church helped me last night. As much as I dont want things to get angry or hostile between us, she is not going to run the show, I am taking the lead for me and the kids. She wants a D she is on her own.
Chruch today got to me. It started talking about family and bearing fruit for the important things in life. Of course on the way home my 6 year old girl said "Daddy Im just going to start begging mommy to come home, please come home, please come home". I want to call her help as ask why doesnt she know what the HECK she is doing to every1
They don't care its looking out for #1 narccism at its prime
Yeah, church was good and bad for me. Made me realize how this is really going to hurt the girls.
Well I think I found a house, a nice single story open floorplan with a separate study. My S christened one of the toilets and clained it as his next to a room. Its affordable, close to everything and available now. As far as church, as I have said before, I did not grow up in church, I am getting more nvolved and finding my faith in God. I am not one to jump in and be what they call a "luke warm" believer.
Church is for guidance and hope. We had a very powerful message last night, and our pastor always touches on family and the importance of it as well as marriage. I obviously get a different message than the W, but again her choices are between her and God. She displays all the signs of a hypocritical christian. Pulls pieces out of the bible that work for her in her "moment".
So for now, I am moving forward "as if".
So W came home from horseback riding hanging with her friend who tells her she is making a mistake. She asked about the house hunting, told her found a house getting the paperwork together. She brought up the letting her and the kids stay there, and I stopped her and said I changed my mind. She says you are trying to leave me hanging, I said no, I have come to realize the D is what you want and you can have it. I dont want the D, but I am moving on with my life. She just sat there didnt talk much, so I talked.
She said its what you wanted anyway, I said again no. She keeps throwing back on me, which I wil not let her do. She seems pretty freaked out right now, but I told her I cant make you work on the M, so am agreeing with the D, and I will meet with a L this week. I told her I wont fight her on the assets but the child custody will be a fight.
The conversation didnt really end, she got a session booked at 7 and I am taking the kids to see a preseason Fball game. I will have more to post later.
displays all the signs of a hypocritical christian. Pulls pieces out of the bible that work for her in her "moment".
Stop judging her faith. I know you are feeling a little angry, and it's OK to share with us here, but her faith REALLY is between HER and GOD. She has to find her own path.
In fact, since you are religous, when you pray for strength and clarity, turn her over to God in your prayers. Let God deal with her.
On the other stuff, good. You have to protect yourself and your kids as you best can under these conditions.
TH,
Iagree her Faith should not be judged by me. Yes I am angry, and I am still finding God for myself. W has been more pleasant tonight, I filled out the app for the new house and just scanned and emailed it. We have been friendly and have talked about our feelings and what has transpired in the last few months, nothing about how things will end up, but I did get across the fact I am moving on....
acknowledging your anger and that it exists is the first step in dealing with it, you're doing ok bro, she will deal with the reality of the situation on her own timeline - I'm glad to hear that you keeping it friendly, it definitely makes things easier on the other occupants of the household (ie. kids) during this process.
Agree with rob on the anger: it's OK to feel angry, and it's even OK to say you are angry and tell us all about how you are angry, but... our emotions do not need to dictate our actions.
Had a good night last night, W and I watched Closer together and talked about things other than the show. We talked about her riding horses and small chit chat about current events. This is one thing i have changed, she used to get mad that we did not interact about our lives outside of the kids. So all in all it was pleasant.
I left a few thigns out in my last post. Yesterday when we did talk about the M, I stood firm, agreed with her but at the same time did not let her blame all on me. She asked me what I felt love menat? I told her loving and imperfect person in a perfect way. She could not respond, It was my way of telling her "ya im not perfect" I have made mistakes but I am who I am.
She also told me that her family told her if you still ove him, which she says she does, any problems in the M can be worked out. Dont knwo if I believe it, I dont get along with her immediate family.
TH and Rob, I slowly feel I am getting away from the angry stage for now, doesnt mean the anger pill wont be swallowed again, but for now I am content.
She gave me a little crap about spending money on her gift card, I simply reminded her that when I received the D papers, I did not consider my money any of her concern. I told her she has worked her butt off and she deserved a spoiled treatment. What I felt I accomplished last night was a good talk, no argueing, before any time I would stand up for myself and what I have done she would counter in a negative way, last night I believe she took what I said to heart.
This morning the W asked me if I had used her income for the rental application. I said no. I told her we need to register S for school, she asked if the rental was in the elementary district we are currently in, I said no. She said we will have to wait then. I guess she is considering moving with me/us/the kids and working on things or she is just asking questions.... trying to mind read, sad sad i need to stop.
She did ask me if I am trying to work on the M, why I have I been so happy and distant? I told her that when you are cold and basically lock yourself in your room you are not exactually approachable. Since I made that comment she has been a bit warmer, a little flirty. i also told her that I realized i cannot make you work on the M, and that I need to get on with my life, the way i want my life to be.
So I dont know if the weekend was a bit of a wake up call for her, but she has probably got a lot going through her mind right now.
Mirror her language if you want: "If you (W) are working on the M, why are you so unapproachable?"
But I would avoid those talks, but if they come up, your tone is what makes it work, and you sound like it came across the right way.
thanks Pin,
I have kept a pretty level tone, not elevated and not depressed. She does notice that, which has made me feel, well a little free..... After we went to bed last night she sent me a pci of her with a horse, I do know how much she misses riding, I sent her a message from the pic that said "you look happy and pretty" nothing else, she sent back a thank you....
tonight has been so-so. W and I hung out with the kids, and basic chit chat. How was your day, this and that I listened to voicemails and W looked at me and said you ok? I said ya why? she said you look pissed. I said nope feel fine, and kept playing with the kids. Put the kids to bed and W gets on the phone with her family members, either her Aunt or her Dad usually. I forgot to tell you guys I kinda through one back at her, when she was bitching about money, I said remember a few months ago, when I didnt get a paycheck my parents covered our mortgage payment? I said when u bitch about money, you go to your Dad to borrow money to file for D, who's priorities are screwed up? I felt pretty good after that one, she couldnt respond.
W came down, I was on my laptop she began to watch Frasier on DVR. After she finished she said, lets not take our kids to bars anymore. I said first off, sont accuse me of anything, I took the kids to a wing restaurant last night for the Hall of Fame game. I told the W we sat in the restaurant section which is sectioned off from the bar, thy have a kids area and the kids had fun playing with other kids. I finished with, I had never been there before, go check it out if you would feel more comfortable, and that the kids had a good time eating and playing with other kids. She softly said, OK and went to bed. It was not an argument, like it would have been before, I did get a bit defensive but I was not irate like before, I was calm and would not let her convince me what I did was wrong, I am there father and will not put them in harm's way. I made myself pretty clear, and difused the situation and took the lead.
W and I had a blowup this morning about bills. Im done with this crap, she is vindictive and trying to manipulate everything. I told her I am hiring a L this week, and she is throwing punches so will I. I cant be nice anymore she is trying to do things that are ridiculous. I am really pissed right now.
Don't let her control you. She's testing you constantly (as you are her). Focus on detaching, walk away if you can't stay detached discussing something with her.
You can do this dsh...
4320,
It's not the problems in our life that get to us, but the way we let them effect us. Choose not to let them effect us and they are no longer problems.
Mind over matter. If you don't mind, it don't matter.
Take a breather and go out and do something to distract yourself. Even for just 15 minutes. Go outside and smell a flower or something.
I just got so angry this morning that I snapped. I said some things I probably shouldnt have, and told the W we need to get together and split things up this weekend. She asked when I was moving and I told her the end of the month. I reminded her that she also needs to find a place. She reiterated that you have issues, and I have issues that we need to work through. She said all I want is to for us to be good parents for our kids.
I definately let my emotions get to me this morning, I basically said I was throwing in the towel and helping get the D done quicker. I did read a psot on another thread that PIN wrote, which I feel the same way. I still love her, but dont know if I really want to be with her anymore. She is and always has been sef-absorbed and a drama queen. I really dont know that she can be happy no matter how good the M is with me or an R with anyone else.
I hear you on snapping I asked the wife if have any kind of brain, when I asked her if I could pickup S & D early Wednesday after our mediation and her answer was I dont know. Same with asking for some days before I go back to work in 2 weeks..
This 180 turn around I'm still having a hard time. And my patients is running thin with STBXW.
I just got so angry this morning that I snapped. I said some things I probably shouldnt have, and told the W we need to get together and split things up this weekend. She asked when I was moving and I told her the end of the month. I reminded her that she also needs to find a place. She reiterated that you have issues, and I have issues that we need to work through. She said all I want is to for us to be good parents for our kids.
I definately let my emotions get to me this morning, I basically said I was throwing in the towel and helping get the D done quicker. I did read a psot on another thread that PIN wrote, which I feel the same way. I still love her, but dont know if I really want to be with her anymore. She is and always has been sef-absorbed and a drama queen. I really dont know that she can be happy no matter how good the M is with me or an R with anyone else.
Well I would say the reality of the situation has definitely hit home with you ;-)
Getting angry and snapping/exploding still shows that you're emotionally invested in this situation. If you were indifferent and it didn't bother you at all, I would say you were totally done but you aren't done yet.
I highlighted the last part of your post,
you should read that part to yourself again a few times,
why would you want to be with someone who doesn't want to be with you, why would you want to be with someone who is self-absorbed and a drama queen? Let her go bro, she filed for divorce, you move on with your life, you get a place for you and your kids, you file for joint custody and you take care of you and her assuming that you are going to provide her a place to live well it's a bad assumption on her part, she needs to get cracking on her part of this equation but it's not something you have to worry about anymore. Sign the lease on your new place, move your stuff over, move the kid's stuff over and tell her that until she finds a place for her and the kids that you can keep them with you.
You take care of you, let her do whatever she wants to do, if she wants to drag her feet on this issue, she will be the one left with the rude awakening.
I can't say with 100% certainty/guarantee but her filing for divorce was done out of anger with no thought of how you guys would work on the task of moving on/out, etc. Part of you detaching and moving on is letting her take care of herself and letting her see how adults have to take on adult responsibilities. She assumed she would stay in the house and you would move out, and she was wrong now that she found out about the house situation. How many other assumptions did she make that she will be wrong on? Only time will tell ;-)
Just focus on taking care of you and the kids, being a good parent and getting that new place to live in lined up, school starts soon and you will have issues related to that soon enough as well as being a single parent so you have plenty to worry about and deal with when it comes to you, stop worrying about what she's going to do, let her deal with that part herself, she isn't your responsibility anymore.
dsh...
Robx is exactly on the mark here. The stuff he highlighted is what I've been thinking about all morning.
YOu are right, Rob, I cant worry about what she is going to do,t is her problem. I am going to get my stuff together and plan on making the move. I am going to tell her I am taking the kids with me, until she makes adequate arrangements for herself.
I am meeting with L today at 3 and will hand over the D stuff to him. My W thinks, and I am sure her L is telling her this, that she will get primary custody. I reminded her this morning that a District judge awarded me custody 2 years ago, and that will be a factor in court. I did not need to bring it up, but I did.
She told me with the last separation, I was nasty to her, I reminded her she had an A, and she felt why wouldnt I be nasty this time. I said I dont want a D this time last time I did, that is why I filed last time. She siad you didnt want a D last time either, but I had an A and thats why you filed. She is correct on that one, it took me a while but I was Dbing then and didnt want a D then either.
The friend who talked to her on Sunday, said the W was receptive to advice and blew some off, Friend feels like W is still confused and angry. Friend says there is hope, but it is long term hope. That made me realize this is not going to get "fixed" any time soon, so I have no choice but to move on.
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...428#Post2053428- Gucci's logic on all of this stuff is so good that he should publish a book on it, seriously
I read it, and agree drip,drip,drip. I am leaving to meet with L, I might start spending a few nights a week at a buddys to take the itch off the sitch, but will ask the L first.
if you're out of the house in a few weeks,
you might as well stay where you are, provide security to your kids during this time, they're going to experience a lot of changes soon with you guys moving to a new home and you and your wife separating, they require you to provide them with some sense of security and stability throughout these changes, especially when they're little and don't understand why these changes are taking place.
I understand that, don't think W does, but I will be their rock.
Had IC tonight, came home and shaved my head. Told the W who was I guess waiting on me to watch closer with her that I had to get up early and was going to bed. She asked me why I am being weird? We had a blowup this morning, and she says I am trying to be your friend and not make this ugly. We started R talk, we talked for quite a while, I told her I understood her feelings, I feel like we keep going back to these talks. She said she has noticed my changes (again) but doesnt think they will stick(again). She brought up this morning as far as my anger and such, I reminded her that what started the fight this morning was her accusing me of messing with her things, I told her you did not ask, you accused.
Either way I did apologize for some of the things I said this morning. We talked about a S instead of the D, I brought up the S. I told her I still dont feel that D is the solution. I agreed that we need time apart, and we discussed the option of a S, with a new rental house, and I would stay with a friend. The agreement would be based on something in writing acknowledging the agreement to the fact i am not abandoning the family.
We talked about MC. She said I think we should no matter how our M ends up. So at least she is agreeing on the MC right now. I did make some mistakes here, For some reason I get to a point of "letting go" then I go to C or church, and want to fight for M, swallowing my pride and being humble.
W brings up all the negatives in our M, and I cant help but saying it is easy to focus on those and not the good times we have had. She also says she goes back on forth on working on things, So she still waffles, could be good or bad I guess. I think she filed for D, because she did not see any other option. She told me tonight we have separated in the same house and nothing has changed. She says you tell me you want the M, but you dont act like it. Again i am stuck here, she says you dont invite me places with you, you dont include me when you plan stuff with the kids. So am I shooting myself in the foot> I told her you show me that you dont want to be with me why would I think you want me to invite you places with me? she cant answer.
I guess I need to include her so I can DB around her more often? All our sitches are similar but also different as far as what the WAW wants to see in us. I know some will post what i am doing is wrong. some will post the opposite. I guess I dont know where to go from here, I think I know what Rob will say dont know about puppy or Gucci, think I know what TH and Pin will say.....
So she is still waffling between. You have let her know you want this M to work and ti's good she wants to do MC. It is unfortunate she says she'll go "no matter how this ends up."
It looks like she wants you both to do things together...so why not plan a dinner out tonight or this weekend?
Keep your head up. You have let her know you want this M to work. The rest is up to her.
dsh,
I make a point to invite the W to all events and activities with our daughters. I also make a point to invite myself to any activities she does with them, if she doesn't explicitly invite me. There's nothing wrong with inviting her along; it's not pursuing. If anything, you can show her how good a father you are, which is very attractive.
I wouldn't worry about her saying "no matter how this ends up" when going to MC. She's just scared.
Baby steps, be patient, no more R talks!!!!!
Either way I did apologize for some of the things I said this morning. We talked about a S instead of the D, I brought up the S. I told her I still dont feel that D is the solution. I agreed that we need time apart, and we discussed the option of a S, with a new rental house, and I would stay with a friend. The agreement would be based on something in writing acknowledging the agreement to the fact i am not abandoning the family.
This is pure manipulation from her. She doesn't want to deal with the consequences of her actions. She wants you to solve her housing problem. Don't fall for it. What do you think will happen once she is in a new home with the kids and you are part time at a buddy's house? She'll be right back to "This will never work". Only this time, she'll have the house and the kids and you'll already be out the door.
If she really wants to try a S instead of a D the way you described, than tell her the only way that can happen is if she puts a stop to the D. If she won't do that, you know she's just using you. Don't let her.
Also, get Relationship Rescue by Dr Phil. It's great for communication. It will definitely help you stay out of her traps.
Either way I did apologize for some of the things I said this morning. We talked about a S instead of the D, I brought up the S. I told her I still dont feel that D is the solution. I agreed that we need time apart, and we discussed the option of a S, with a new rental house, and I would stay with a friend. The agreement would be based on something in writing acknowledging the agreement to the fact i am not abandoning the family.
This is pure manipulation from her. She doesn't want to deal with the consequences of her actions. She wants you to solve her housing problem. Don't fall for it. What do you think will happen once she is in a new home with the kids and you are part time at a buddy's house? She'll be right back to "This will never work". Only this time, she'll have the house and the kids and you'll already be out the door.
If she really wants to try a S instead of a D the way you described, than tell her the only way that can happen is if she puts a stop to the D. If she won't do that, you know she's just using you. Don't let her.
I understand the manipulation point. Again I am trying to do the best I can with my sitch. I have made the point that if the S is agreed upon, the D will have to be on hold. If she doesn't agree then what is already in process keeps going, so what do I have to lose at this point?
Pin I know being a good father is attractive, I am a good father I don't think that is the issue so much. She said last night " I am not a good person with you" she also said she is to blame for this as well because she let me be the way that made her unhappy. I informed her that when I do something that upsets you, we need to communicate about it not let it slide by. I also made the comment that ourt issues are not unique and the problems are repairable
any thoughts on above post??
You're going backward.
Every time you get into these negotiations with her, you lose ground.
I thought the rental house was for YOU?
You need to decide what YOU are going to do, and then let her figure out what she is going to do on her own.
she let me be the way that made her unhappy
She let you? Really? I guess she is aware she has more control over you than you do.
And what did she let you do? Make her unhappy? Ha! She let you not make her happy? hahahahaha.
Dude, stop being gullible.
It's not your job "to make her happy". That's HER job. You're job is to make YOU happy, be a good father, and not treat your wife like crap or take her for granted.
She's not supposed to take you for granted either, but she DOES.
Stop letting your emotions dictate your decisions. Use a more-objective "what is right" kind of criteria to base your decission making on.
I am wondering how much of her "unhappiness" comes from just knowing that she can push you around and treat you badly, and you will take it and cave in?
I heard a saying that I've been using myself,
"Happiness is a DIY job",
it was her job (and still is) to make herself happy,
just like it's your job to make YOU happy.
You can each add to each other's happiness and assist in making you lives and existence more enjoyable but your own happiness is your own responsibility.
Unfortunately people fall into the trap of high expectations and placing a lot of pressure on others to make them happy and that never works because you keep wanting more and more and more and you become a bottomless pit, someone else can't fill up that emptiness if you're not able to do it yourself.
No more relationship talks with the wife DSH,
just tell her that she filed for divorce,
you are moving on with your life, she needs to do the same and your priority right now is finalizing the details of your new living arrangements for you and your kids - what she does or has to do now is of no consequence to you.
When you finally let go and I mean really let go of her and she feels it (because just saying words and performing real actions are two different things), that's when she will have her awakening.
You won't be there to make her "unhappy" anymore and she'll still be unhappy, you won't be the reason for her unhappiness but she'll still feel it and that's when she will realize that she was part of the problem.
Right now she's just flapping her gums, in part to try and make you feel better about what she's doing, it's also possible because she feels guilty for her part in all of this, it's hard to say, you can't read her mind (I know I can't).
Just let her be,
you take care of you and your kids, that's all you need to do right now.
I heard a saying that I've been using myself,
"Happiness is a DIY job",
it was her job (and still is) to make herself happy,
just like it's your job to make YOU happy.
You can each add to each other's happiness and assist in making you lives and existence more enjoyable but your own happiness is your own responsibility.
Unfortunately people fall into the trap of high expectations and placing a lot of pressure on others to make them happy and that never works because you keep wanting more and more and more and you become a bottomless pit, someone else can't fill up that emptiness if you're not able to do it yourself.
No more relationship talks with the wife DSH,
just tell her that she filed for divorce,
you are moving on with your life, she needs to do the same and your priority right now is finalizing the details of your new living arrangements for you and your kids - what she does or has to do now is of no consequence to you.
When you finally let go and I mean really let go of her and she feels it (because just saying words and performing real actions are two different things), that's when she will have her awakening.
You won't be there to make her "unhappy" anymore and she'll still be unhappy, you won't be the reason for her unhappiness but she'll still feel it and that's when she will realize that she was part of the problem.
Right now she's just flapping her gums, in part to try and make you feel better about what she's doing, it's also possible because she feels guilty for her part in all of this, it's hard to say, you can't read her mind (I know I can't).
Just let her be,
you take care of you and your kids, that's all you need to do right now.
I need to start copying and pasting again, rob and TH. I guess what started the R talk was when she said, you and I are not at the same place right now are we? She also said she feels like an abused dog, which either bites or leaves. So I guess I just have to let goooooooo.......
I guess what started the R talk was when she said, you and I are not at the same place right now are we?
I don't know, Dear, where are you right now?
She also said she feels like an abused dog, which either bites or leaves.
Well, Dear, if you are going to bite me, we better make sure you get your shots first
HAHA TH, yes some of her comparisons are a bit lame? Anyway left the house before they all woke up and didnt get home with the kids until after the gym at 7. W was home, and chipper. So all I can do is be upbeat(which I am) and focus focus focus on me and what I need to do. I feel she is always looking at me, when I turn towards her she looks away. I dont react just keep doing my thing. I am talkative she is as well.
I think the talk last night was a mistake, but what is done is done, no more. The issue I am having is do I register my S in the school that will be where I am moving too> W has made no effort the register our S, and its 2 weeks until he is suppose to start, I think I should and if she has a problem with it tough sh!t, he needs to be in school.
I registered my kids yesterday. Took me 2 hours! I also bought all their school supplies, got their shot records, birth certificates, SSN cards, and proof that I live in the district.
WAS' don't help around the house or family much... :>P
I agree Chuck, W is already complaining about working 2 jobs, since the bomb I have not helped her with her laundry(not totally true) I still help when she leaves her fing clothes in the dryer, one of my pet peaves I cant help but pull them out and fold them, I hate wrinkled clothes(can you say OCD).
We were going to watch a movie, W fell asleep on the couch while the kids were still up. I woke her and said you look tired why dont you go to bed, she did and has been a little pissy about it. Earlier she said someone at work told her she looks taller when she straightens her hair. I said your face looks bigger when you straighten your hair. Her jaw dropped and looked at me with anger! I smiled and said when your hair is curly it makes your face look thinner thats all. She said she has to work at daycare saturday night, and offered for me to drop kids off there at 5. I said well I can just take them to church? she said I figured we would go to church as a family on Sunday, I said ok and shrugged my shoulders.
On another note, I have some real crap brewing with some business issues that are pretty serious and are taking on my complete focus. Which for my sitch at home will help I guess, but it doesnt help that it makes me very moody and I have to turn that mood off when I get home and pretend to be all giddy
My wife works only 1 job but stays there 11 hours a day. Escapism or EA, who knows? Too many watching her for PA.
Why wake her up. Turn the TV off and go to bed with her still on the couch. I like to give the WAS a taste of what it's going to be like outside of the M.
I bought Rib Eye steaks and had them in the fridge overnight. W's favorite cut of meat. She got home late again. The kids had hotdogs and I grilled and ate half the steak. She wasn't home until after I bathed the kids, brushed their teeth, etc. She thinks she wants to be single, then she can fend for her own supper and not see her kids go to bed.
LOL about "makes you face look bigger"! I wouldn't have even said that line before the WAS syndrome arrived!
I am also starting to cut her out of family events. The next baseball game I am going to tell her I'd just like to go with the kids. Same with church. We won't be doing those things after the D so she's better get used to it.
You saying, "ok and shrugging your shoulders" reinforces the idea that you will always be her safety net. You don't want to be a safety net for any of her options. It's ok to say no. There is no mystery to you if you are always there.
yes chuck, that is where I get in between the fences. I am dealing with a W who has said that she has felt neglected. So I am dealing with trying to include her, but not beg she gets one invite if she doesnt want to go, then I dont ask her again. I am trying to be friends again, without being a doormat.
W just waved me upstairs cuz, D got out of bed and curled up and fell asleep in the hallway. I asked the W if she got a second wind, she said she felt like soaking in the bath, I told her I had work to do, you can use the big bath in the master, up to you, and walked away. She started the bath upstairs.
Again I am trying to just be cordial. I do feel for the sake of our kids and if there is any hope I need to be friendly. I feel that is part of the DBing, If I am not that way, then she will think i am not moving on, or acting as if. Can someone repost robx thread?
Detachment with love.
Pursuing or not pursuing.
Testing the waters.
Testing too often.
I am still trying to figure out the nuances too.
yes chuck, that is where I get in between the fences. I am dealing with a W who has said that she has felt neglected. So I am dealing with trying to include her, but not beg she gets one invite if she doesnt want to go, then I dont ask her again. I am trying to be friends again, without being a doormat.
W just waved me upstairs cuz, D got out of bed and curled up and fell asleep in the hallway. I asked the W if she got a second wind, she said she felt like soaking in the bath, I told her I had work to do, you can use the big bath in the master, up to you, and walked away. She started the bath upstairs.
Again I am trying to just be cordial. I do feel for the sake of our kids and if there is any hope I need to be friendly. I feel that is part of the DBing, If I am not that way, then she will think i am not moving on, or acting as if. Can someone repost robx thread?
This is essential. Why would she want to stay with someone spiteful, vindictive or mean? You're doing well.
Thanks Pin,
I need to focus on this. I do feel sometimes I am giving too much, but I have thrown an alternative out there compared to the D, she has a few weeks to think about it, if she doesnt jump at it her loss. While she is thinking I will focus on the friendly and corial side, without being a doormat. Im sure I will have to put my foot down at times and also set some boundaries. But things will move forward in either direction which I have no control over. The only thing I can control are my actions, which is what I need to focus on.
W was really pissy this morning. I have been giddy with the kids got them dressed for school. W has been taking more time to get "ready" she is putting on makeup again and doing her hair. Her friend told me she is doing this to get a reaction out of me. I have not said a word. I have not reacted one bit, I think she is trying to rub it in, she is a very pretty woman, and if it helps her self-esteem then good for her. That is one of my own boundaries for myself, I do tell her from time to time how good she looks but I am not going to be the slave boy that tells it to her constantly.
I am starting to realize, although I have faults I am not willing to be a completely different person than who I am. W told me a few nights ago I was fake and not able to love. SHe says that is the way I have been our whole R. I listened to that and have been thinking about it. If I was that way our whole R 7 years, why did we stay together? why did she come back after the first S? During the first S, I was very vindictive and stuck it to her because of the A. I completely detached, it was easier with the A. But at the same time I cannot do this every 3 years. This is not a high school Bf/Gf relationship. We are M we have 2 wonderful kids.
So I think about it more, she is just blaming me for everything that is wrong. Her friend told me, Derek you need to be you, go back to being just you. I was the same way when we first met, could have made some habit changes then, but I am who she fell in love with, so being me makes me happy.
You have to be comfortable with yourself. But don't avoid changes that you know you should make to better yourself.
in,
I am not avoiding changes, I am not as "short tempered", I think before I speak and I am working on acting instead of reacting to things. I think maybe the W has been with me for 7 years and just feels like I am not who she wants to be with anymore, people grow and change, maybe she fell for me when she was younger and wants something different out of life? I was very reserved about getting involved with someone 10 years my junior. Maybe I am reaping the reason I did not want to do it back then...
Wow, another 10 year age diff. That has to be a good indicator of marital stability (or the lack of).
People do change. My wife is definitely not the same woman I married, and neither am I. But a lot of the traits I had back then, I still have (for better or worse). Same with her.
Don't let her blame you for everything that is wrong. That's WAS syndrome. You both own 50% of what happened in your M.
I know this Pin,
But she says she has done everything to make this M work, and I have done nothing. So I guess there is no option but to move along with or without her. I do not plan on contesting the D, I will show up at the hearing on the 9th of September, and basically do what I need to do for me and the kids, there is still time before the D, so I have to make sure I do my best in that time.
Another thing I forgot to mention, is I offered to go stay with a friend for a while, she has not brought it up, 3 weeks ago she kept asking when I was moving in with my Brother. This time I offered to go again, and there is no pushing me out the door, a little confusing....
But she says she has done everything to make this M work,
Don't forget one of the most important rules of Dbing.
DO NOT believe anything they say and only 50% of what they do...
Actions speak louder..
Hold the line. PMA
Thanks PMA, I need that boost from time to time. I am going to go get the kiddos and hit the weights!
Actions speak louder than words on your part too. Don't say you are going to go some where for 3 days.
Like Nike says, "Just Do It"!
You keep talking about the brother's house or friends house but are still holding her apron string at home means you don't say what you mean or mean what you say.
If you say it, ya gotta do it. Otherwise don't say it.
I know Chuck, I could just go stay there for a few days. But as Robx said, stay at the house for the kids. Had a good night at a group meeting at church. was there until about 10, came home and went upstairs to kiss the kids in their beds. W was already in her room light on, door shut journaling and reading her book " the mom's devotional bible". I kissed the kids and came to my room. Just sitting here typing on the laptop.
The group at church has everyone from substance abuse, co-dependency, intimacy isues, anger, guilt, grief and people dealing with divorce. I basically go to deal with not any particular issue just a place for support and understanding.
I seem to be doing better each day that goes by. I did do the W and kids laundry today while working from the house. W did thank me for it when she got home before I left. I said no problem gave the kids a hug and threw them in the air a few times, W seemed to enjoy watching me do this and listening to the kids giggle and laugh.
What kills me is even though we are pretty much separated in our home, the kids seee both of us at night and in the morning. When this ends up us living separate, I think the kids will hit their own emotional roller coaster. They will be very confused and they are so young 5 and 3. That is what is starting to set in and it tears me up....
Thanks for stating both spouses own 50% of what went wrong with the M. We need to remember that when we hit a low point- own what we did, work on it, move on. That's healthy.
I own it, the W does not. She feels that the majority of our problems are me. She has a habit of being on her "high horse" at times and looking at everything negative, nothing will fix "us", she is better off on her own, the grass is greener, she is very much an impulse decision maker. She decides on something without fully understanding the consequences going forward.
Even when she is getting involved in something new, whether its a hobby, a new job, or just changing something up? she jumps in feet first and gets about 50% there, then sits on her hands. It has been one of my issues with how she conducts herself. Even with stuff around the house, she will be one to start cleaning or doing laundry and never finish. She will be going at 100 MPH for 50% of the task, then stop. Usually I have to finish it. She sems to be in better moods towards the end of the day and at night, then in the morning she is pissy and grumpy. She is already complaining about how much she is working which has only been the last 2 weeks. So i guess the reality of where this is going is setting in a bit, but she is stubborn and wont let me see her weakness.
W just left for daycare with the kids, S was all excited about getting donuts on the way to daycare. I picked S up and said eat one for daddy! W says to S come on xander you know your daddy cant eat just one, and she smiled and looked at me. I said well if I had my yogurt I could of had my usual breakfast of yogurt and grape nuts(yum). SHe laughed then apologized because she was suppose to go to the store 4 days ago and has been slacking.
Where i feel there is still hope, she still wears her rings, her FB says she is still married to me, and she really hasnt told anyone other than a few family members that she has filed. With our last S, rings came right off, FB and myspace(at the time) we no longer have myspace, either way she changed them both immediately, and was changing her name back to her maiden name on everything she could without having to show proof that her name was legally changed back.
Am I reaching? or could her L be advising her to leave everything as it is until after the D. Her L told her to put a hold on some money I transfered to her account after she met with L, but before it was filed. So I guess part of me thinks she is just doing what her L tells her to do.
Am I reaching? or could her L be advising her to leave everything as it is until after the D.
I am wondering the same of my W, still wears rings to work, hasn't told anyone, acting nicer. I don't know the answer....I was hanging on it, but now have decided to wait and see if it progresses or not. Then I will know. I do return the favor though, if she is nice then I follow suit, if not I back off.
There was a discussion on another thread about having good and bad times, and if I recall, and it's true for me, that morning is the hardest time and maybe for the WAS as well?
I wouldn't read anything into your WAS's ring-wearing etc.
Nights are toughest for me, especially after the kids are in bed. That's when I'd like to be spending time with my W...So instead I go work out, give her as much space as she wants. If she says anything about watching a show, I'll join if asked, but not waiting around anymore.
I am not trying to look into it too much, but its still a little hopeful.
So I get home from buying a new suit(for some interviews next week) set the stuff on the counter and get on my laptop. W walks in the house unexpectedly, stands in the kitchen and starts looking through my stuff, I didnt say anything. She starts to tell me she had to get a change of clothes for D, and starts rambling and my phone rings for an interview. I had to take it, W is still talking and I just went into the phone call. She walked out a little pissy, and got back in her car and left. I continued my phone interview which turned out to be pretty good. They want to meet with me next week. I am not going to apologize for it, if she brings it up I will simply say, it was an important call I had to take, didnt think you would be home.
I think she thought i was getting the suit for our day in court, LOL!!!!!
I know you guys have heard this 1000x on this site BUT
STOP TRYING TO READ THEIR MINDS....
Doesnt work.. DETACH DETACH DETACH!!! GAL GAL GAL!!!
Enjoy the weekend.
PMA
PMA, were you reading my mind? LOL
Ok people, W called me out of the blue, I was busy making the kids dinner. She started with small talk and I tried to get off the phone, politely of course. She asked me If I was serious about my proposal. I said yes I am. For those of you following my thread, I have issues with lying about stupid stuff which is my part of breaking the M down(on my part). In any case she says she wants to believe I want to work on the M. I told her that I have not told any friends or family about the D. They all know we are having problems but they dont know she filed.
She wants to believe me, which obviously takes time to restore trust. She asked me if i go to C on tuesday. I said yes he offered for you to call him if you need to(transperancy). She asked if I go to the church group on thursdays, I said yes I can give you the number of my group leader(again transparency). She asked me why I havent told anyone about the filing, then she said because you want to save the M? I said I cannot save the M, I said I want to work on a new M, but that takes both of us, not just me, I cannot fix anything but myself.
I could tell she wanted to keep talking, but I told her I need to feed the kids and this is better done in person. I dont know what to think right now, I have been a solid DBer the last few days and GAL is getting to her quickly. I think maybe the reality of the sitch is setting in to her a bit, I can tell she is still scared. Any advice as too how to handle it when she gets home? I have about 2 hours, she is working late.
W came home, and was beat she sat on the chair and fell asleep, she has to be at work job 1 at 7 am until 3, then off to job 2 at 5-midnight. Hope she is liking the reality... anyway we did not discuss her earlier phone call, from a few posts up... I did not bring it up, when she is ready to talk about it we will.
W came home, and was beat she sat on the chair and fell asleep, she has to be at work job 1 at 7 am until 3, then off to job 2 at 5-midnight. Hope she is liking the reality... anyway we did not discuss her earlier phone call, from a few posts up... I did not bring it up, when she is ready to talk about it we will.
Nice job Man. Perfect. Keep up the hard work.
Thanks Faith,
I feel pretty good today, W will be working all day and night, i will spend time with the kids. Like I said I think she is getting a taste of reality, I dont know if she brought up working on the M for the right reasons. We will just have to keep up the PMA and GAL and let her figure it out.
Had an interview this morning, W I guess went by the house, she called me, I answered and said i am finishing up my interview, she had a lot of questions, my whereabouts and such, I reminded her that I had an interview this morning, she obviously forgot, She seems to be reacting to the fact I am moving on with my life, getting my s!t in order. She will be a part of it or not, her choice. But I am friendly, told her good luck with her trade show that she is goig to for about 3 hours, she tanked me for that amd told her I had to get going. I am patting myself on the back, I am doing what I need to be doing, not clingy and moving along "as if". She is noticing I believe...
Good interview, took the kids to the gym then out to lunch. W got done with work at job #1, texted me and asked where we are at? Waited about 20 minutes to respond, just said running around town, gym and errands. She is working at daycare tonight, and I told her I needed to meet with some potential investors on some deals I am working on. Told her I would drop kids off around 630 and pick them up a little after nine. She said I could drop them off at 5 and she would keep them until she gets off. Usually this would have started a back and forth tug of war, But I simply replied "whatever is easier" which put me on a 180 and a lid on the text conversation. She has been contacting me more since I dont contact her at all unless totally needed for kid stuff. I am GALing like a mother and she has noticed. She wonders where I am, what I am doing which has to do with the breakdown of trust. I keep replies short, and if she questions the answer I do not get hyped up I just say it is what I said it is. My confidence has come back quite a bit, and she sees that. Will post later.
Hey keep your head up things sound better for you and enjoy the great time you have with the kids. Talk later hope
Thanks Hope,
Things are looking up, but I still keep the firm belief on the inconsistency patterns. She brings up working on things, then hasnt mentioned it since, so I just back off, and let her bring it up again when she is ready.
Went to meeting with some people over dinner. Came home, W was talking on the phone(like usual) and the kids were very happy to see me. Letting the kids sleep in daddys bed tonight. W stayed up and started to tell me about her day, we talked a bit, I think she was trying to through some things out there to test my jealousy, didnt react just listened to her about her day. She didnt ask about my day, I turn away for 3 mins and then she is asleep.
She wakes up tells me goodnight and makes her way upstairs. After about 10 mins she texts me and asks if the salon I got her a gift card at was open on sundays and if i would mind if she went tomorrow. I replied " I knew you would go on a sunday, I made sure they were open on sundays, no I dont mind". She replied with a thank you, and i replied with a your welcome. She did text me quite a bit today, nothing important, and she also made the effort to call me a few times today. I always ended the calls, and was friendly and polite.
We are going to church together tomorrow so I will be chipper and on my best behavior.
dsh,
Keep doing what you are doing. Do not backoff from DBing because you are making some progress.
I wish you the best.
sounds like your handling the upswing pretty well. stay focused and know that there are others that are watching and supporting you and learning from your success
Thanks guys,
LSG I used to live north of LA, what kind of work are you in, I still have a lot of contacts out there if it would help. In any case, I dknow I am making progress in regards to me, which is the ultimate goal. W has noticed but she is up and down, which I know is normal. So I will keep doing what I am doing.
A friend of hers I ran into last night, said with our first S, even though she had OM, W kept focusing on what I was doing, she would even hack into my emails and stuff while we were S and after I filed for D. I guess no matter how much she says she is done, is she really> her friend says the W gets like this and even though she wants to walk away she doesnt want anyone else to have me. Friend asked if I would take her back? I said right now if she was willing to work on it I would, but if D goes through I am done. I am not going to do this every couple of years with the W, when she gets unhappy time to run. She needs to grow out of that mentality its childish and frankly I am sick of it.
Good service at church. The message was about people losing themselves in trying to make their own "image" perfect. It had a lot of insight to what a lot of WA's i think go through. They look back on their M or R, and think this cant be all there is to life, so they try to paint this perfect picture, they pound it in their heads that this new life will be perfect, so they start to believe it. In reality we the LBS once we figure ths out, we can truly detach. The fact they think about the this new life, if you can realize it wont be all its cracked up to be for them, you can let go. For some they will take the W or H back, for others, once you move on so far, your done. You dont want to take them back and put yourself through that misery again. I went through it 3 years ago, and regret taking her back more and more now. I should left her in the bed she made for herself and moved on then. But I did take her back more for my kids than anything. So where to go from here..... tick tock tick tock..... I know where I am going, moving ahead without her, if I take her back in 2 days or 2 months or 2 years, that will depend on how far into my journey I have progressed.
my thread must be getting boring or redundant
I know where I am going, moving ahead without her, if I take her back in 2 days or 2 months or 2 years, that will depend on how far into my journey I have progressed.
No matter what, Life will go on. You never know whats around the corner. Bottle that attitude and just be the best you, you can be.
dsh, keep your chin up. Enjoy your journey, we only get one. Sometimes you get an extension, sometimes, an early withdrawal.
My chin is up Pin, we all got home this evening, a storm blew through and knocked out the power. We were parked next to each other in the driveway with about 10 inches of rain piling down, she texted me I said I am going to take the kids to get dinner, she kinda invited herself, mentioned one place I said no, then another I said sounds good and we went to dinner as a family. It was nice, she talked to me quite a bit, and again has not brought up the S instead of D since friday. I also mentioned earlier in the week that we need to divide stuff up this weekend, here it is sunday and no mention of it.
THe clock is ticking with our living arrangements, and something needs to happen pretty soon. I have already brought up the bills, that she needs to pay half of, which I did politely and told her we need to make arrangements on them this week. I could see the frustration in her eyes, I am not going to make things easier for her. That is not my job, with a D pending.
Reality has a way of sobering up the most irrationally behaving folks.
very true, I dont think she is still back to reality yet....
not much new to report, she complains that she cant sleep because of me(another thing that is my fault) but the funny thing is when she sits down in a room with me to watch a movie she falls asleep, when she goes to her room by herself she cant sleep. That is funny. Nothing has been brought up lately, D, S dividing stuff up, but if she doesnt this week I will have to, time is running out.
W had an early appt. She came home to take the kids to daycare, I was dressed up for an interview, and the first thing she said was that I looked nice. I thanked her, and she took the kids to daycare. She is very chipper today, and it drives me crazy, it gets me boiling that she can be so happy at times. I know that is normal but it still affects me, her ups and downs, but the ups get to me the most because I think it hurts the ego. You feel that you are not important to them and they can be completely fine with the way things are, that is the toughest for me to deal with.
The punches keep coming. W and I Talked about S school, had to pry a bit, but W has already signed a lease on a place for her and the kids, and has enrolled S in school. Originally I was uspet about this, then I realized its probably for the best. I realize I am trying to rush my changes, and it is coming across as false. W is done, she stated she keeps waffling back and forth, but in reality she is making her "actions" towards filing and leaving. I dont believe what she says, but the fact she filed and signed a lease last week are pretty good indicators that she is moving on.
So what choices do i have now? well I guess its really easy to answer that. I need to get my sh!t together, work on me and do things for me.Tonight I did realize how much I have damaged are M. I said I understood her choice, did not ask her to reconsider, just went along with her choice. She is at the point that no matter what I say she doesnt believe me, I dont blame her really. I have lied about small and large things, mainly because of my ego, and in the end it truly caught up with me and our M.
She told me she doesnt believe I am ready to change, she feels the IC and the other things I am doing are just to make her feel better. She is upset that I received a mailer from Twin Peaks, she says you dont respect our M. I wanted to defend myself, on some points I did most of them i did not, I let her speak and I listened. She is freaked out that I am already dating, which is one point I stood firm on that was not the case. I can tell she is very tore up about this, she is friendly but she gets very emotional when we talk. She is still very attached, but she is set in her ways right now.
Do I think its the end for us? maybe maybe not. But any chance of reconciliation in the near future is a long shot. I have realized that tonight, and for now, I am ok with it. I told her I would help her move which I think surprised her. She does not expect me to cover her insurance any longer, god I am glad I did not rent a house yet. I have a buddy who lives in a nice house by himself and said I can rent a room there. With the current financial sitch, all in all things are happening the way they are for a reason.
I can stay with him, focus on work and save money. She said she can be civil with me, and have normal conversation, but anything else hurts too much for her. I guess that is her saying she is still attached in some way. Dont know if this is typical or not.
I guess the divorce and the living apart will either let her move on or miss me, obviously she is so angry about the lying I have done, that no matter what I do now, it will not work. I think the only option is to bury the old M, and let us both start off clean apart. any thoughts out there???
I forgot to mention, the W still wants to do counseling next month? strange I guess, and she also mentioned that she did not feel the buddy I am going to live with is a good idea, she referred to the house as a bachelor pad, and used the kids as a reason to say, I dont think its a good environment for them. dont know what to think of that. I guess she is not completely detached.
need some feedback peeps.....
Where you live is really not her concern anymore. As long as your buddy isn't doing drugs or having orgies at the house, then she can't keep you from seeing your kids.
She is obviously not detached, but she's driving this thing. I think the reality of what she's doing is starting to dawn on her.
Get Dr Phil's Relationship Rescue. It's great for communication. My H and I had similar communcation issues. This book really helped change the dynamics of our R. You can implement the changes by yourself. When you change the way you communicate with her, she will have to change her style to you.
Also, when my H and I were separated, I told him that I knew that we both made a lot of assumptions when communicating with each other. I knew that I had made mistakes in the past by not telling him the truth about how I felt. But that from that point forward, I was committed to being honest about my feelings, etc and I would not say something that I did not mean. I would also not assume that he meant something other than what he actually said so he should please tell me exactly what he thought, felt, etc.
A statement like that to your W might help. She's making a lot of assumptions about what you want, how you feel, etc. You need to make it clear that this is a negative pattern and you want to stop it. If you notice in the above example, I used all "I statements". That's very disarming because you're not blaming them just stating what you are willing to do.
Thanks Blue,
She is driving this thing, there is no doubt about that. As she was leaving this morning, she said she would probably start moving small stuff over to her place. I didnt say anything. As she was walking out, a mover showed up to give me a quote. She seemed stunned a bit, as he was sitting with me, she came back in the house started doing some stuff in the kitchen, and I asked her what her address is. She did not know it off the top of her head, but I think she is still surprised that I told her that I would help her move. Again she had this look on her face, the one that looks like oh sh!t this thing is moving forward.
Before you start moving stuff, be sure to go through and make a list of what you really want. Keep in mind that you will eventually need a room for your kids at your place. Unless you intend to have to buy everything new, you'll need 50% of the kids stuff at your house. Also, you need furniture just as much as she does. Don't just let her have everything.
If you need to put some stuff in storage for awhile, do it. But don't just cave to her.
Thanks again blue,
I will take some of the kids stuff, I think splitting things up will be amicable. I told the W today that I have a meeting tonight at 7, and wont be home til after nine. I told her that if she has to work late I will drop the kids off at daycare and she can pick them up. She seemed a little confused, but this is the reality of the situation, I am going to give her the joint custody she is asking for, and right now I cannot do 50/50 since I will be staying with a buddy for a while. I am going to talk to him about setting up his other spare room for my kids. When we are officially split, I will not be her babysitter on call. I will do everything I can to see my kids as much as possible, but I cannot make this easy for her, again she is making her own bed and she needs to lie in it for a while.
W texted me from the Dr's office, kids need to get their shots beofre school starts. She texted me that my ex biz parnter's wife was also there, W and her dont get along, anyway she texted she was there with a hahahahaha, I did not respond and wont either. I am going to only respond to things about our D, house and kids, other than that I am not going to be there for her, even with little stiff like that. She told me last night she cant see us being friends right away, because friends dont lie to each other. Again she is putting the lying thing back on me, then she texts me stupid stuff like that? I am not going to be a part of the bs any longer.
But she sstill wants to go to church as a family and start counseling next month, which is right around the time of our first hearing. I think the counseling will be more for the kids than our M anyway.
When you don't respond to that stuff, she'll eventually get the hint. I do want to caution you though. The D needs to be a long term outline of what you want, not based on what you do right now. That means that if you want 50/50, you need to set it up from the start. You can't count on her being willing to change it later. Also, since time equals money(support) in a D, she could get very comfortable with you paying more and seeing the kids less.
Also, don't use time with the kids as manipulation. If she wants you to have the kids and you can, do it. She'll only hurt herself and you'll built a great bond with your kids.
You are right blue, I told the W my intentions last night was to do 50/50 which is what I will suggest at our hearing. I will provide a room for the kids at the place I am staying, and will ask the judge that if he grants 50/50, then no child support either eay. I am going to get the kids under my medical insurance, the wife is working but she doesnt report a lot of her income so i am sure she will lean on the state for help.
I agree. Figure out what YOU WANT NOW. I fought for joint residency from day 1 and got it w NO SUPPORT. You're DAMN RIGHT dont make it easy for her.
You might want to consider "nesting" which is both parents sharing the family home on their nights. That is what I did w my X for the first 6 mons or so. on the days I didnt have my daughter I stayed at a buddies house. If she wants to move out then great, but just make sure YOU fight for YOUR TIME.
PMA
I plan on it PMA, she has already signed a lease, she wants me to tell my family about the D(which I have not yet) but I do plan on requesting that at the hearing.
I am not going to make it easy for her, I will be friendly and help her where I can but I won't be at her "disposal".
The funny thing is is that what she is doing is pretty much what my proposal was except I wanted the D put on hold. So all I can do now is go with what is happening and let the chips fall where they may.
GEEZ, the W is moving fast, she has already grabbed omst of the stuff she is taking, and I guess today is when the kids and her start staying at the new house. It feels a little weird, I guess she didnt want me to help her move. IT feels a little strange right now, i am a little down about everything.
W came by we had a huge blowup, I told her I was fine with her decision to leave, but to do it not talk to me about it in refenerence to our children really got me boiling. She still kept going to the lying stuff, she thinks I lie about everything now, she cant trust me this and that. I told her it was disrespectful for her to say the best thing for the kids is her leaving me. I told her that is inappropriate and she said she meant its the best thing for her. I replied that its probably the best thing for me as well, and to leave the kids out of it. I told her that "we" need to talk to the kids about what is going on, she is doing all this on a minutes notice and without consulting me, I told her they are my kids too, and she needs to stop making decisions for them and not include me, I will bring all this up in court when we have our hearing. I am so pissed right now I cant even see straight,,,,help....
Sigh, sorry it's turning out this way dsh...
Hang tough, fight for your rights with your kids.
So I came back from a meeting, W still does not have the power on at her place yet so when I got home, W and kids were curled up in my bed wwatching TV. W was civil, she was laying on my side of the bed with her head buried in my pillow. I dont know if she will have the power on tomorrow or not at her place, I am planning on moving stuff over to my buddy's house this weekend.
The kids were a little restless, W got up and moved to the couch. We did not talk about anything other than her asking me about my meeting which I said went well. I was trying to calm the kids down and she put her hand on my shoulder and the other hand around my waste to get me to leave the room and let them be. She hasnt touched me like that in 6 weeks, felt kinda nice actually. I know things are still going where they are going, and just need to press on. I am so lost right now, this happened so quick and why does it not phase her one bit? she seems to do all this stuff so quickly, all the time she complains about me reacting to stuff, when that is exactly what she is doing herself, getting mad or upset and reacting quickly.
I will feel better once I am out of this house, even though we have only been in it 2 years, it was a house we moved in to as a family when we decided to reconcile the first time. It does hurt quite a bit. I am going to go curl up with my S, D went to the couch with the W.
W said she moved quickly since she had time today, and S starts school monday. She says she wanted the kids to get adjusted with their new home. We are going to a meet the teachers meeting on thursday together and as I said before W still wants to attend church as a family. I am only getting insurance for me and the kids going forward. I still dont know how she plans on affording her new place at 1k a month when she barely brings in 2k. I think she is moving too quickly and she is going to fall on her @ss.
dsh, you will feel better in your own place, you'll be busy doing things the way YOU want to do them, putting things where you like, and though you'll feel a heck of a lot of twinges, the pain will go away.
Keep focusing on your son and daughter. They need you to be a rock; strong, not melty man.
Don't focus on your wife falling on her @ss. It's not what you really want, and it's negative energy. Push negative thoughts/energy as far away as you can.
Remember, this is a marathon, not a sprint.
I know Pin,
I just dont get how this is happening so qickly, it feels lke yesterday everything was ok.
Fast is slow and slow is fast. Have a plan. Expedite your execution and stop analyzing. Stay focused. Stay disciplined.
I do need to stay away from the negative energy, Chuck I dont have any control of slow or fast, W is driving a friggin stock car here, does anywone know a similar sitch to this? one day she is back and forth the next she is leasing a place and moving at the speed of light? I am trying to stay focused on what I need to do, but the overwhelming frustration of how quickly this is happening is creating havoc in my head.
Also since she thinks I lie about everything, last night I forwarded 2 emails to her, that show I was not lying. I did not explain anything only that here "look". I am sure she wont respond or say anything, but it felt good to prove to her from another source, that whne she thought I lied about something that I was telling the truth.
I just realized that no matter what I say to the W right now, she wont believe me. I know its actions over words, but the way things have unfolded if I said its sunny today she wont believe me. So maybe the D, is putting an end to the old M, and we start a new friendship and coparenting schedule. I know she does not like the fact of where I will be staying, but that is not her choice. The thing she got upset about yesterday is that when the mover showed up she thought I canceled a meeting for that. I told her I planned an in home estimate 2 weeks ago and forgot about the guy showing up. Of course she didnt believe me so I forwarded the email from 2 weeks ago regarding the appt. Like I said before no explanation just here ya go, here is the email that shows I was not lying.
I feel like she is still trying to control what I do with my life. She asks about everything, I tell her some and just not everything. She got pissed because old friends(girls) have been sending me stuff on FB about travelling to TX and wanting to meet up. If we were still together I would invite her, I told her that they send me stuff like that and I havent responded. This is where I feel she is still attached, so maybe I can do my best db'ing being apart. I just have to make sure all interaction is pleasant and that the GAL shows big time. any thoughts??
I feel like she is still trying to control what I do with my life. She asks about everything, I tell her some and just not everything. She got pissed because old friends(girls) have been sending me stuff on FB about travelling to TX and wanting to meet up. If we were still together I would invite her, I told her that they send me stuff like that and I havent responded. This is where I feel she is still attached, so maybe I can do my best db'ing being apart. I just have to make sure all interaction is pleasant and that the GAL shows big time. any thoughts??
The only things you should respond to are about kids, house, money. Your private life
doesn't concern her anymore and that is
due to her choices.
Since you aren't together, tough darts on her getting bent over your old friends. Don't tell her you would have invited her; counterproductive. W needs to have the fear that a.) she's made a mistake b.) you are moving on c.) OW find you worthwhile.
Future interactions w/W:
be pleasant, upbeat
only discuss children, house, financial
end conversation first
dsh,
My W does not believe anything I say or do until she finds out for herself. It is just that way with WAS. Not much you are able to about it. It is just better to not engage in the drama for yourself.
I just say what I need to, and I do not respond to much else she says. She still tries to control me, and your W is doing the same to you. I think you have made yourself more attractive to her from what I have read of your thread so far.
Continue to DB because you never know what could happen.
Have a pleasant and peaceful day.
Thanks Vlcanized and LSG, BTW LSG I sent you an email reply. I spoke with my Mom who said your W has made a choice, let her go. My Mom also said that, your W has wanted to change you since you guys met, and she cant, bc you are you. Mom says W is a narcicist, which I think most people have some of that, but when they become a WAS, it heightens it quite a bit. They put their needs and wants above all, including the kids.
Mom says you both have made mistakes, at least you will own up to them. If the W does not then she will carry that baggage with her, as well as the baggage she still carries from her childhood. W is just like her Dad, a narcisist to no end. When we have problems she becomes a daddy's girl again, and that last a few months then he disappears like he has done throughout her life. He has come to the rescue recently loaning her money for L, new place and a cell phone but that tree aint gonna keep shedding money for her, he is as cheap as they come.
Ok I was about to leave the house today to go get the kids and the W walked in and started talking to me about simple stuff. She then asked if she could get me any groceries, I said no dont worry about it. She then came overto me gave me a hug, and buried her face in my chest for a good 3 minutes. I said what is that for as i rubbed her back. She just said "cuz" and then walked away and said "with a smile "stop trying to make me hate you" I smiled and said Im not trying to do anything. She rolled her eyes and smiled.
She then said why dont you come over to the house tonight with the kids after the gym for dinner. I said ok, then reminded her that I cant. She asked why? I said I have a C appointment. She asked what time, then said well come over for dinner and you can leave from the house. I said ok and left to get kids and go workout. As I was working out I started to think, I should just take the kids over check out the house compliment on the house and leave. Which is what I did, said the C moved up the appointment and I couldnt stick around.
I told her she could take all the kitchen stuff and decorations around the house, since I am moving in with a friend and it will save money on storage. I said when I get my own place we can split things up then. She agreed. I told her I was moving in with my buddy this weekend, which I think she is till a little upset about, but again this is her choice and I have to do what I have to do.
My S is still very confused. He does not like the fact I am not staying at the new house. He kept saying on the way there he wanted to stay with daddy, D was asleep on the car so she didnt have much input
So for now I think there is some hope, in reality this is happening for the best right now. She will either succeed in what she feels is the best thing for her, or not, but that is up to her. I can tell she is still attached, I keep saying this, but I am not feeling like I am analyzing or reading her mind, but she seems to be feeling right in her decision, but still having trouble letting go of me. So now it is time to fully DB to the best of my ability, didnt mean to make it rhyme.
Also Vulcanized, I did not invite her, just made the point that if we were together I would have.
bump ^
dsh, you sound like you're in a good place. Glad you're getting out of limbo.
Thanks Pin, I am at home W and kids are at their new place. I came home from C appt, W had come by the house, and as I was walking up she drove back up, had her car packed up, and said " D thought she left her shoes here, but tey are in the car, so we just drove bak for that" I said ok, gave the kids a hug and kiss and told them I would see them tomorrow. Didnt say anything to the W just waved to her as I walked up the driveway. I was hoping to get a little feedback on the interaction from my post above, if anyone has any advice, comments or want to give me a cyber slap.
W and kids stayed at the new house last night, W called my phone this morning, i didnt answer the first time so she called again, I answered in case it was important. She asked if S backpack was here, I said I will look. I hung up went in his old room and it was hanging on the door, called her back and said its here I will leave it on the counter for you to get later. Well she said i will come by and get it now, I said he doesnt start school until monday and you still have a lot of other stuff to get. She came by anyway. I gave it to her, she looked like she got run over by a truck, must have been a rough first night. I went out gave the kids a hug and kiss and told them I would get them for the gym today.
I think its funny that she had to think of something to get to come over this morning. SHe probably has 5-10 more trips to make to the house to get stuff, and she comes by for his backpack which he doesnt need yet.... I was cordial not a jerk, but did not talk to her much. When we were separated before, she never slept in her bed at her house, she would not sleep well and always sleep on her couch. If she starts feeling like this is a mistake she will be too bullheaded to say anything, but again I cant worry about that. Life must go on.
The backpack is a safe thing to pickup. It's not "her" stuff, that reminds her of leaving. She's trying to see if the soft landing cushion is still there.
I agree Pin, like she does many times she moves at 100MPH initially, and still has a bunch to still pick up. I am going to start moving stuff over to my place today and thru the weekend. When I am over at the new place she will not come by unannounced, she will feel uncomfortable doing so. My C told me last night that the W still feeels comfortable with me being at "our" house, when I leave there will be more mystery and darkness as to what I am doing. We will see each other today for the S teacher parent meeting, then I will try and be dark until church on saturday night. For a while she was just texting me now she calls me more.
dsh4320,
I think you are doing the right thing. I do not believe that you should make easy for her. Let her come to you.
Why is she calling you? Is she not able to just continue to text message you?
LSG,
as we have all said before texting is not personal enough. She could have texted me, but she called instead. she called me twice while I was at the gym yesterday and I replied 40 mins later by text. I also did not stick around for the dinner she invited me to. She stayed in her house for the first time, and I believe she wanted to hear my voice. As pin said above, what she came by for at the house this morning was not important, she was checking up on me. My C said she will have work and the kids keeping her busy, and will miss the interaction with me. He said adults need adult interaction, and she will not have that with me going forward unless its church, or with the kids. I told her the other day I have accepted her decision, no mention of trying to work on things, just stated I have decided to let go.
I have been some what of a "melty man" off and on for the last month and with the separation it will be a lot easier to move away from those actions. When she comes by to get more stuff from the house, she will notcie more of my stuff gone, the reality will set in, she will overcome it or not, again thats her problem, not mine. I am overcoming the reality of the situation. And I think that is why we are here, to get ahead of our WAS in regards to reality. You work and deal with your emotions, but while they live in fantasy we live in reality.
dsh,
It will get easier with the separation. You'll have some warning when she comes over, so you can put melty man back in the freezer. Living with the WAS while in limbo is much tougher I think, since there's no telling when you'll be weak.
Thats why I feel better already, I miss the kids more than the W that has been the W for the last 2 months anyway. I need to go start boxing some sh!t up and start figuring out where I am putting stuff at the new casa.
I am looking forward to gettting the kids today, and talking S to meet his teacher and see where is classroom will be. NO contact with W today, which is good, getting some stuff put together at the house to move. I started to think about what you said Pin, about the soft cushion, she knows I will be outta here this weekend, and I am sure she will not want to come by the house I am staying at, any kid exchange will either be at her place or at a public place I am sure. Movin along......
Update:
Before I left to pick up the kids, W shows up with them at the old house. S wants to ride with me to his new school. He starts to cry about the fact that Daddy is not staying at the new house. I picked him up held him, and said daddy is staying at a new house too, he can stay with daddy whenever you want, I am here for you. I started to get choked up, and cheered him up with picking up a cherry limeade from sonic on the way to school. I told the W that S wanted to drive with me and I would meet her there.
We showed up at the school went through the orientation, and took his supplies to his cubby. W said she had an appt. at 5 it was already 4:30 SO i told her she should probably go. Which she did, and I took the kids to the gym. I told her I would check the kids in at church for my group meeting and she could pick them up there.
On my way to church which the group started at &, got a call from the W around 6:40 she said her 6 oclock cancelled and I said why dont I meet you somewhere to drop off the kids. She asked me if I could take them to church so she could go tan, I said sure.
I checked the kids in, and texted the W that she could pick them up, and if she needed the id tickets she could text me when she got there and I would come out to the looby or she could just give them the code and get the kids. During the group she texted me and said Im here, I met her in the lobby and she asked which room they were in, i started to think just go and ask, she can figure it out, but instead I said they are in the last room on the left, after that I went back to group.
I went with a couple of guys to get something to eat afterwards, and met up with some ladies. No contact from W, which is what I expected. But talking to the ladies, 1 of them is going through a D, the other has been separated from her H for 5 months. I pretty much spoke with the separated one for most of the night. She said her H neglects her, is arrogant and doesnt give a crap. She has been separated for 5 months and still calls him daily. So I told her he still feeels like you are there, no matter what. I said you need to go dark, and expressed more DB tactics to her. She will start them or not, but it felt good to pass on to someone what I have done before and what new things I have learned.
I dont know the plan for the kids this weekend, but i will let the W initiate any talks about that. I am going to move stuff to the other house, and some stuff in storage.
While at the school orientation I was playful with the kids and chipper, the W was a little grumpy. I keep phone and text conversations short, not angry or mean just the facts.
I said you need to go dark, and expressed more DB tactics to her. She will start them or not, but it felt good to pass on to someone what I have done before and what new things I have learned.
Enlightening others is fun, isn't it?
Hopefully she'll take what you said into account. DB tactics really do make so much sense. Unfortunately it seems hardly anyone can follow them in the beginning, when it would really matter!
Did you get a storage unit already or you still have to find one?
No. Quite frankly it sounds like you have most things under control.
However, if you need answers to something you are unsure of, state it as a question in bold.
That will usually generate some opinions and advice.
You are doing well in your actions. And that counts most.
You seem very strong and doing a great job suriving this. And helping others always seems to be a huge help to oneself. I only hope I can bear these rocky waters as well.
Dagny.
dsh,
You are doing a great job. It is good to do like you did with your S to make him feel better. His whole life has been changed, and you are handling it great.
It is great to pass on some of the knowledge on this site to others. I would recommend it to anyone who is unfortunate to be experiencing the marital problems.
Keep responding the way you are to your W.
It is difficult, but you are doing the right things.
Thanks peeps,
Soleil yes I have found a storage unit. Ande it does feel good to share the wisdom and tactics found here. W did send me a text today, asking since she has rearranged her work schedule can I pick S up 2 days a week at 2pm and drop him off at daycare. I told her it depends on what job i take and what my hours will be. She replied Ok, let me know I can make other arrangements. I did not respond back to that conversation anymore. I am not trying to use the kids and of course I want to see them as much as possible, but at the same time I cannot be her fallback, not really as far as the M, but her on call person to work with her schedule in regards to the kids. I will let her sit and think about it for a while.
I then sent her a text that I need the kids SS#s for health insurance forms. And also told her I wanted to take them to the gym and that I would pick them up before 4 and drop them at the daycare where I think she is working until 12 otnight.
I on the other hand am going to go out with buddies and check out the nightlife which I havent done in a while.
I need to stay patient and persistent with my actions, very tough, but really no other choice right now. It gets tough when the WAW just acts like none of this bothers her. I almost regret giving in to the hug the other day, she seemed to enjoy it more than me, and I cannot make her feel like I will be here to be her soft cushion any longer.
She has been off work for most of the day I think, and has not made any effort to get the rest of her stuff, this is typical of her, she moves 60% of her stuff in 2 days then leaves the other stuff for the last couple of days, its lke she jumps in the pool and swims 90 mph half of the way, then stops and treads water.
about to leave to get kiddos, the W texts me and asked if I could grab her make up box and mouthwash, I replied back not at home had to get stuff done, sorry. She can get the stuff herself, along with the other crap she still hasnt moved yet.
Tough Love Brotha.. Tough Love.. Better then using the line "why dont u have your boyfriend do it.." like I used to
Actually PMA, She wrote back and said, I will get it on my way to work. I didnt reply, I dont need to know that and I dont need to reply back, do what ya need to do....doesnt concern me no mo>>> I think when I pull up I will text her when I am out front and ask her to send the kids out.... give her a little piece of her own medicine..
Well people it gets better, I show up at W house, and send her a text that I am outside, she replies come in. I walk up and knock, being polite its not my house, the kids open the door and both jump on me. W asks me if i have plans tonight? I said yes I do. She said I am working at the daycare late and the kids want to spend the night with you, I said its short notice and I cannot cancel my plans. Then she goes inot the where, with who and how late? said a couple buddies, dont know yet and probably late yes. She tehn gets a phone call, and is on the phone forever, she has been in her house 2 days and the A/C went out it was like 90 degrees in there. was getting impatient and told S to go tell mommy we are leaving and you will se her in a little bit. He does that and I walk with them outside. She walks out and says" your not going to let me say bye?" I said you were on the phone and you will see them in 2 hours. She gives D a hug and kiss and stands there, I dont even look at her tickle my son and get in the drivers seat.
After the gym I took them over to the daycare and W is working. I drop them off give them hugs and as I am walking out W says " I booked a client at 7 AM tomorrow" I looked at her with a look that was basically "so" she said can you watch them, I looked at her and shook my head No. She got upset and started to ignore me and talk to the kids, I started to walk away and said "*****(her name) you need to figure it out" and left.
She keeps thinking that this new "life" that I am just going to enable her and make it easy for her, well I am not, I expect a lot of resentment and anger but I cant control that. I do not like my kids suffering but if I give in to make her life easier I am not doing this correctly. The next time we talk, my boundary is going to be this: You and I need to agree on things that work for both of our schedules, not just yours. I cannot be asked to do something to accomadate you on a seconds notice. She needs to learn that if she cant book a client at a certian time because of her schedule, she needs to book them when she knows I or someone can be with the kids. She has her head so far up her @ssright now, that the world revolves around her needs, Time for another reality check sister.....
Not much new to report, wanted a little feedack on post above. Went out with some friends last night, did a little flirting and had a good time. I am suppose to go with W and kids to church tonight, I am not going to contact her, if she doesnt contact me, I will show up to church and do my thing. If she shows up fine, if not I will keep up with what I am doing.
I think your post above is solid. You are right. These are not your problems any more and she needs to figure out how to schedule her life and solve her own problems. You should not be there to rescue her every time she falls.
I think you are doing great!
Keep it up dsh.
Thanks DanF,
What gets me down is the empty house, I used to always tell the W that when she went to her family's house with the kids for a weekend it was a nice break. But after a while I miss the kids and just the family in the house. I am going to finish moving stuff over to my "new" place tomorrow I really need to get out of this house, the kids rooms are empty and I find myself going in their rooms and looking at how we painted them, and it gets sad.
Having a new place will be comforting I think. No constant reminders of "what was."
Hand in there dsh...
true Pin,
I need to get outta here.....
dsh,
I feel so bad for you. It must be really difficult for you. I am not sure how I will feel when that happens to me and my family. I am sure it is a very empty feeling.
I wish you well!
Thanks LSG,
W has been silent from friday until this morning. She called first and i didnt answer, she sent a text which I waited about an hour to reply. She is basically angry bc I have been hanging out with friends. I asked her why the kids have not called me in 2 days, she said you could have called them? she also said I gave you 2 chances to spend time with them, and its your fault you didnt make the effort. So I quickly replied that you cant expect me to accomadate you at the last minute to spend time with the kids because of your schedule. I simply wrote that we need to accomodate both of our schedules with the kids. She mentioned that we were getting along just fine until I started hanging out with friends. I said that has nothing to do with it, lets get the kids on a schedule that works for both of us and that will be the end of that. So she writes back and says lets both be mature and stop acting like, I cant make her life easier crap. She said we both need to work together and be mature about this. I simply wrote back, that I understand your decision, and I am fine with it, we are better not together. She constantly tries to lay the guilt trip, and says I know you dont need the constant reminder of what is going on, why does she keep playing the card" i know this isnt what you wanted? does she do this to make herself feel better? Is she trying to get a reaction out of me? That is why I wrote her, we are better not together. Maybe she will stop sending me stuff like that.
She constantly tries to lay the guilt trip, and says I know you dont need the constant reminder of what is going on,
My guess? Attachment works its evil magic. She is still dead set on whatever course she has chosen, but she's temperature checking you because... well you were together a long time, and you have kids together.
If you were miserable, she would probably go away feeling like she made the right choice, and the attatchment factor wouldn't be gnawing at her.
Thanks TH,
I have been very good not contacting her at all. She wrote back, with less guilt and stated her words in the text a little more friendly. She keeps writing how If i need help when the kids are with me, then she should be the first one I call to take the kids? and on and on. What is the point of checking my temp now? I am not fighting her, I am not pursueing her, I am not going to contest the D, I am letting go.
I have told her I am fine, and agreee we shouldnt be together. It seems she is angry because she refers to me hanging out with friends qute a bit in her texts and it has nothing to do with the kids and schedules.
me hanging out with friends qute a bit in her texts and it has nothing to do with the kids and schedules.
You aren't sitting at home, pining away for her. Big ego blow most likely.
Now... that's my guess because I don't know you. If you were the kind of guy who hung out drinking with his buddies all night, then it could just be the urge to nag you.
Th,
her last text was "why did he have to talk about all this when all I asked was when you were bringing the washer and dryer, I did not bother responding to it. I am not the kind of guy to just hang out with buddies all the time, at least not when we were together, so I am doing it now, and she has to bring it up, which I dont rub it in her face just agreed with her decisions, which I am surprised she did not respond to any of that with good I am glad we agree with what is going on.
So I moved the washer and dryer to the W new place. The kids were very happy to see me and I was being very chipper. Hooked everything up, then realized the dryer cord does not fit her plug. I told her to go get one and I would change it out, she said I dont know what to get, so I just said I would pick it up and handle it. I then said I had to go, she stood around saying umm, umm like she was looking for something to talk to me about. She then said what stuff are you moving over today, I said basically this and that, and the rest would go in storage. She then said I am not using most of the garage here nor am i sing the atic, she said you can keep stuff here if you would like. I did not say yes or no just that I would think about it.
So it was a freindly interaction, and the buddy that i went out with helped me move the stuff. She did not ask about what we did all weekend which I didnt expect her to.
After I left she sent me a text asking when I would be back over? I said I know you need to do laundry for the kids, I put up a temp clothes line and said let me get some things done and I will let you know. I told her I want to take the kids to church on Wed for a back to school blessing, she said she cant go, i didnt say your were invited LOL but I did say I can take them by myself.
up down up down..... blah
I moved some stuff and sent her a text asking when she would be back at her house. She wrote back she was going grocery shopping and it would be an hour and a half. I wrote her and said I have a lot to do, but that I would try and get by around 8. She said fine, just text me or call and let me know. I then thought about it and asked if it could wait until tomorrow? her mood changed and she texted I will just pick it up from you and do it myself. I told her I was at my new place, she got lost and while I was putting stuff together, she walked in and was looking around the house like an investigator. She seems to be pretty short and not happy about my "new" place and who I am living with, but again this is all her doing.
I gave her the part and tools for the dryer, and she said she would figure it out, I just said ok. A friend wh owas helping me move thinks she wanted me to come over, and that I kinda put a roadblock on that. Maybe I am taking some control back? Some of this is starting to sink in a bit with her?
I am going to meet her in the morning so we can both take our S to his first day of kindergarten. I will be chipper and look good.
bro, I've been away for a while, life is busy,
what happened to you getting a place for you and the kids?
I have a bit of reading to do on your thread to catch up, apparently some stuff has happened ;-)
How's your attitude been lately overall?
How are the kids?
How are you?
Hey Rob,
When you get a chance read up, a lot has happened in the last 2 weeks, she got a house behind my back, and moved the kids over to her new place. A lot to repost so when you get a chance read and let me know your thoughts, I missed you big time!!!!
I called the W so I could say good night to the kiddos. S kept asking where I was at, I told him I am moving stuff from the old house to daddy's new place. W told me she thinks she hooked up the dryer correctly which I said good, kept it short with her and laughed with the kids.
When I was at the W's house earlier and she was trying to talk, she walked up next to me and pulled some lint off my cheek, does she do this to test me? a little bit of kindness, she wouldnt do that for a neighbor, that is something you do with a person you are still close to. I didnt say anything and really didnt react to her doing it. Her AC is still out at the house, which is killing me bc my kids are sweatin their tails off. Should I take her up on her offer to store stuff at her house? I am getting mixed opinions on this. Some are telling me she is just being nice, others are saying that its her way of still keeping some kind of hold on me. any thoughts??? I know its just stuff, but I didnt really move a lot of stuff to my new place, so a majority of my stuff would be kept at her new place.
time to go see my little man off to his first day of kindergarten, what a trip.....
I wouldn't keep stuff at her place. Makes it hard to detach, and though you'll be interacting a lot because of your kids, I wouldn't.
Hope you enjoy the first day of kindergarten. I watched some video of last year when we dropped our youngest off at kindergarten. Bittersweet memories.
Pin,
THe stuff I would keep there is stuff that has been in the attic for 2 years anyway. I will not need to get access to it at all. I dont want to waste 80 bucks a month on storage. It was nice taking S to school we walked him to school took pics and it was pleasant. W has arranged for the S to be picked up on days she asked me to do it. thought about saying I could do it now, but then I decided to leave it alone. W has started smoking again, and drinking wine. Those are things she does when she is stressed. I did not say anything just noticed it at her house.
She told me her friend Megan is coming over tonight, I asked her if she was coming over to babysit? she said no just to hang out, then she quickly said " are you interrogating me? I said nope and kept walking with D on my shoulders. I did notice that the W keeps looking at the card I gave her a couple weeks ago, it was somewhat melty man, but also a card that states apologies for the past, and that it is the past, and it cannot be changed now. I have noticed it in different parts of the house, like she is reading it every once in a while. Hopeful thinking I guess.
dsh,
I feel you so much. It is so difficult on you. It is nice you took son to kindergarten and had a pleasant time with W. I hope things will become more pleasant for you.
It is never too late, so do not give up hope.
Have a great week!
thanks LSG,
I am not giving up hope, but like Robx and a lot of other guys here, the patience is the toughest part for me. Men usually dont have the gift of patience, and I expecially dont have it. But I am working on it, I try not to look in to the little gestures she does, pulling lint off of my face, and stuff like that. She keeps talking about how she cannot afford this ir that, and I just want to tell her "why did you rent something that is going to be tough to pay for"? but I dont say anything, I just listen and smile.
I told the kids in front of the W, that we are going to church on Wed and they could spend the night with daddy after that. W did not say anything, and I did not feel the need to ask her if it was ok. As you all have said, I need to lead and make decisions for myself and the kids. Like I said in my previous post, W said she couldnt go Wed, and I didnt invite her anyway.
I think I will plan a trip to the zoo maybe this sunday, I will mention it to the kids, if W wants to go she can tell me, other than that I will take the kids regardless.
If you store stuff with her, make sure that it goes into any agreement you make that she's just storing it and you will get it back. Otherwise you run the risk of her getting angry at some point and saying that you abandoned it. Also, make sure that you don't store anything that you don't mind her going through because she probably will.
You sound good. I think it's great that you're taking the kids on Wed and making plans for the weekend. By the way, she's telling you about her money issues because she probably thinks she can get you to pay for it. Glad you're not falling for that.
Thanks Blue,
As I have said before, her dad is enabling her with money, but he wont do it forever. She is not working today and as an employee at the daycare for8 bucks and hour and a massage therapist who only gets paid when she gets clients booked, I dont know how she will do it in the long run. I hope she makes it, but at the same time things are tight for me as well. I will not put anything at her place that I care she goes through. She is very civil to me lately, and I think brings up reasons for me to come over, like last night which I squeezed out of.
I am staying strong on the no contact, and she is still testing me, when she knows i am coming over she always makes herself look good, she looked very good this morning and yesterday. I did not comment on it, I never do, dont know if saying she looks nice would be a 180 now or not?
OR do I even bother with trying to save the M anymore, if you have followed my sitch she has moved pretty quick in the last 2 months.
Had a great workout, W texted me a couple of times while at the gym: here is how it goes:
W:Didnt get to pack much....ac guy has been at house all day(i didnt respond yet I dont take phone in the gym)
W:I cant get him to wake up?(I decided to play with her a bit)
Me:Get who to wake up the ac guy fell asleep?:)
W: Ha Ha!No but he just left about 20 mins ago. Feels soooooooo much better.
Me:I bet, you guys should sleep better tonight, I am going by the house to see.
W: This house?
Me: No at the old house you didnt pack sh!t!!!! HAHAHA
W:Like I said....not much....2 boxes and I went ahead and brought em over. Couldnt even shut my drunk.
W: Trunk
W: LOL, Sorry
Me:Oopsy
W: was gonna say door
W:Door+trunk=drunk, LOL!
Me: U r nutz
W: Why?
Me: Door+Trunk W' name spell check at its finest
W: U r in an awfully cherrful mood....whts up?
Me: Great workout, dogs are getting along and feeling goofy!
W:Good! its nice to see you like this!
Me:Thanks, tell the kids I will call them in about an hour.
W: OK!
Left it at that, do you guys think I did good here? I no not to expect too much, but I know she misses it when I am like this. Any thoughts???
When she asked why you were in a cheerful mood, you said basically: I'm GAL.
That's good.
Humor is always good for a R no matter how strained.
Thanks John,
Yes it is basically what I said. It was good to get a positive response from the W.
W just sent me a text, I texyed her to talk to the kids over and hour ago, and her text said, I have been calling your phone for an hour and I get a beeping sound......please call me back.
I called back and talked to S about his first day at school, and he kept asking me to come over and give him a hug and kiss. I told him I would give him one tomorrow and take him and D to the gym with me. D was already asleep so I could not talk with her. W then got on the phone and started to talk to me about getting S to school on thursday, and started telling me he needs to be up at a certain time, this and that, I interrupted her and said I can handle it. She said I know you can and stopped telling me what to do. She was not argumentative and stated it in an apologetic voice. We talked a little more about her leaving access to her garage so I could move some stuff in. She asked me if the dresser I am letting her borrow, if she could move it herself? I said I will put it close to the door in the garage so you can drag it in.
I was not going to beat around the bush and say I would come back over to help move it in. She then started to talk about her ac being fixed and how nice she will sleep tonight, I told her you would sleep well, then she began to ummm and ummm so I said if I have any problems I will text or call you tomorrow, she started to say goodbye and I said goodbye and hung up first.
here is my link from 3 years ago with my current W the first go roundwith her.
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...=6&fpart=16
i get a lot of views and no one posts;;;;;
dsh4320,
I think it is good that you are letting her do things for herself.
Do not let her dictate how you care for your kids. You have done that, so it is good that she see that you are fine with or without her.
Nice way to finish the conversation and be on your way.
Keep it up. If you are having good vibes from her keep doing what is working.
Thanks LSG,
Good vibes are a lot better than bad ones, She sent me a text this mroning asking me not to forget her longhorns over the front door, and also not to break them, those coments get to me, if she is worried about me braking them she should get them herself. I will reply in a little bit with I will grab them. any other thoughts on the previous page??? our text convo and the phone call?
dsh,
I do not have comments so much on the contents of the TMs or the phones calls. I would probably try to avoid to many TMs or phones at this point and time. I think you are making yourself to available to her.
I would let her find out that she does not have you there every time that she needs you.
she has been texting me more, she also sent a video from her backyard of a family of ducks near a pond. Thought that was a bit odd. I responded back 30 mins later saying the ducks are cute and you picked a good place. I do not respond to everything, I know I need to be less available to her, but at the same time, I am trying to be cordial. This is where I get torn, I am trying to balance being a good father and just a good person in general, funny and nonconfrontational. Am i doing too much right now? it seems to be getting positive results and no arguments. I dont bring anything up regarding the D(in process) or the R at all.
My STBXW sent me an email saying the final hearing should be in about a week.
I responded, "Thank's for the info".
She then sent two upbeat emails about a new place to eat that I need to try.
Moral of this lesson: does it really mean anything?
Dont know what it means TH, sometimes I feel she does things to keep me around, just in case she changes her mind. Other times I think she is being nice so we are civil through all of this. I read other threads where the WAW is angry and bitter and does not initiate any contact or do anything nice for the LBS, W has not been that way after she left, she has been reaching out a little bit. I guess I could be reading too much into it, but that little bit of hope says they are good signs, but again I keep my expectations near 0 and tell my self the D is around the corner.
. I guess I could be reading too much into it, but that little bit of hope says they are good signs, but again I keep my expectations near 0 and tell my self the D is around the corner.
Based on my biased experience, all it definetly means is that there is some attatchment.
Attatchment alone will not bring your wife back or save your marriage.
I am proof of that. You wife is another woman, however, so we shall see how it works on her.
Yes I agree. There still is attachment on both sides. So is it safe to say, if the attachment is still there, and I be the attractive fun loving guy, it can rekindle things? It does make me happier to be that way anyway. So I guess I cant lose if I keep doing what I am doing with zero expectations. I will not let her run my show, she can run her show the way she wants.
I am not going to be readily available to her, she is getting space, and she needs to miss me, for the good things in me, that is what I display in her presence.
There still is attachment on both sides. So is it safe to say, if the attachment is still there, and I be the attractive fun loving guy, it can rekindle things?
It's never a good idea to assume or expect anything.
What I am getting at is that any changes you go through are for you only... because they will enable you to feel better about yourself and who you are. Take the focus off trying to manipulate her. Be a better man because it's the right thing to do.
As far as your wife goes, it's not so much about any hoops you jump through or contortions you twist yourself up into to please her.
There is attatchment. There may be more: her principles, her idea of motherhood, and so on that work in your favor.
But stop acting like a trained circus dog trying to impress the audience with new tricks. Become the charming, confident guy you can be, and let her work the rest out.
It's why we say protect yourself if you need to, but don't be an @ss about it. Think "Cary Grant".
Thanks TH, That helps quite a bit.
Moved a bunch of stuff today, Texted the w and told her wont be able to take kids to gym, still moving stuff. She texted back and lit me up about not making plans with the kids unless I am 100% sure i can do it. What i would have done before is bitch back and defend, but she is correct I cannot do that to my kids, so I just replied" your right".
Then she texted me that our S got in trouble at school already on his second day, hit and pushed a kid in his class. W says we need to be firm with him and compasionate at the same time, that he is going through a lot right now, and since we are switching ins companies we cannot take him to his therapist. I agreed with her, and said I can take him to my C office which have therapist who wirk with people on tight funds. She said she didnt want to change him from his current therapist. That she would figure it out.
I did not reply. This is where I need to figure out the best way to contact her on the kids. She enrolled the S in a school before telling me and also took him to a therapist without talking with me about it first. It is disrespectful, SO any advice on what to write??? I think I need coach or puppy or Robx on this one..... She is overstepping again, and this is one boundary i need to put in place. Help...
She is leading. Why didn't you approach her first with the questions of school enrollment and possible child therapy?
You are so focused on her that you aren't taking the lead.
Yes she is leading, and right now, the way things are I can only lead what is in front of me. S has already started school, and is settled in her house. As far as therapy, I need to get more involved in that, period.
She texted me on my way to C appt at 8, asked if I put anything in the attic, she could look herself but i said yep and asked if the kids could call me, since I only had 10 minutes. She replied why only 10 minutes? I said I am on my way to C and only have 10 mins. S calls from her phone and we talk for about 10 mins, I was on speaker, and he tried to hand the phone to W, and i told him I had to go and he can hang up the phone. After 20 mins in C session she starts texting me asking about finger nail clippers? then asked about one of our dogs vet appts, we have a 7 yr old akita who has bone cancer, I will probably have to put her down.
I did not respond to any of it since I was in C, she knew this. SO I decide not to and just head home. I get home and she texts again, Hello? so I reply Hi. She asked again about dogs appt, I said I didnt take her today will have to reschedule. She said if you have to put her down I think it is best not to tell the kids with everything else going on right now we have to keep positive things going around the kids, agreed? I just replied with a yes.
She said well let me know if you do put her down, Night!
I replied ok day!
That was the end of the convo, She was very snappy today with me and the kids, I overheard her being snappy when talking to S, and obviously her texts today were also that way. I did not inquire to her mood or why she was being this way, just letting her be.
Tomorrow Night I will have the kids take them to church for a back to school function, then they will spend the night with me. I need to pull away a bit, she saw some humor in me yesterday and is being crappy today. I have still been upbeat and have not been defensive or confrontational.
We are separated, she has filed, she has the kids how does one lead from this point? All I can truly do is GAL and do 180's go somewhat dark. I am leading my life, but it is hard to lead for the kids from this point?
I don't like that she's leading, DSH.
Let's look at this:
She asked again about dogs appt, I said I didnt take her today will have to reschedule. She said if you have to put her down I think it is best not to tell the kids with everything else going on right now we have to keep positive things going around the kids, agreed? I just replied with a yes.
All you had to say to get back on balance here was, "I'll have to reschedule because I was very busy, and I'll let you know what I decide to do".
You see? You aren't being mean, but you aren't taking orders.
She's acting like your mom. Like she has to tell you to do stuff or it won't get done.
Think about this. You didn't initiate the school enrollment, and she seems to think you can't take care of things on your own.
Possible 180? Lead.
PS. Your new theme song is CCR's "Taking care of business".
dsh,
Fight for your rights with your kids. You have to do it for them and you. File an Order to Show Cause for your visitation and custody rights so they are recognized. This is what I would do as soon as possible. This is where you can lead.
Make sure you are always going to do whatever you say for the kids.
I hope I am not being too harsh. I just want you to have a great relationship with you kids.
Keep fighting for what is right.
I hope I am not being too harsh. I just want you to have a great relationship with you kids.
I don't think we can be too harsh with him. He's always waiting to see what his wife's next move will be, and she is busy thinking up and acting out next moves (leading).
He needs to stop waiting for her to decide everything, or he's not going to like the results.
To you DSH: stop worrying about what your wife is going to do, and stop taking all of your direction from her. Be a man of action. Take care of business.
W told me she loves me and has felt neglected during our whole M. So by going totally dark and going along with it seems to be putting the nail in the coffin.
I think it's easy to fall into the trap of double guessing yourself and your actions, did you neglect her, maybe you did, maybe you didn't, however we forget that they do have the ability to communicate these things to you, if they choose not to, it's not entirely your fault. Did you feel hurt & neglected when she had an affair during your first separation? Are her feelings of neglect really just feelings of boredom and placing the responsibility on you for keeping her excited and stimulated all the time - where is her responsibility in all of this? She is an adult, we all are, we're all responsible for our actions, don't feel like this is 100% your fault because it isn't.
I know pin, I did book her a massage and facial for the hell of it. If it doesn't show her something then oh well.
All I can say to that is .... oh well ;-)
I have no idea what that would be for? "...Thank you for separating from me and contributing to the breakup of our family?" I don't think this gift was necessary and I'm sure all it just accomplished was more confusion.
She says she is paranoid around me, worried about her every move and how I will react. SHe says she has noticed changes in me, but does not believe they will stick, that is my M.O, work on changes and go back to the way it was.
Did you place any requirements on her to improve as a spouse after the first separation and her affair? Don't fall into the trap of having to jump through hoops for her until you are just "perfect", if you are expected to change while she remains as is, do you really believe that would work? It wouldn't. You would have a feeling of something lacking, after all the effort you put into changing and becoming Mr.Perfect, she would still be the same spouse - where would your reward be? This type of idea always leads to the same place, high expectations that don't get fulfilled leaving someone always wanting more which leads to problems, fighting, animosity, etc. Don't get sucked into this trap, you might actually discover that you're pretty damn fine as is, maybe her judging criteria is flawed or maybe it's all an excuse and no matter what you do, she will never be happy - people like this exist, plenty of them.
I did speak with my L today, I am going to represent myself at the first hearing, with our first S I was awarded full custody, so I do have that in my court. My plan if it gets to that is to ask the Judge for custody on a 50/50 format, no child support either way and we split the assets down the middle. If that is not acceptable I will ask for a continuence to hire an attorney. I do not want to retain one at a couple grand right now, the papers I was served with are not asking for a whole lot, she is not trying to rake me over the coals.
sounds fine to me but I would still get a decent legal opinion on this. I do believe however that previous history is on your side on this matter but I wouldn't make any assumptions on what the future holds.
... W obviously got the card, which was pretty much a card that spoke of things in the past cannot be undone, the fact I reflect on problems and apologize for the hurting it caused. the end of the card says I love you and always will. She was given a single red rose and a gift card for a facial and back treatment. I gave it with no expectations, a little worried she was going to flip out about the cost, or say something like dont do things like that. Neither happened. She looked very tired, she was lying on the bed with our D falling asleep on her chest. She looked at me and said she is asleep. I walked over and picked our D up rocked her a bit and laid her down in her bed. W looked at me while I did this, got up and went in her room.
Did you really give it with no expectations?
C'mon be honest. You're hoping all this effort into being a great new man for her will wake her up and she'll finally ask you to give the marriage another shot. These are the things that aren't working, improving yourself so that she will like you better, buying gifts, etc. Improvement is an awesome thing, I'm all about self-improvement, but when you improve yourself to please others and to win back their approval, that is just supplicating behavior and it usually never works, just an FYI, these are the things that AREN'T working.
...yes she has moved quickly, I also think about the first S, I filed quickly then, maybe she was freaked that she needed to file before I did. Dont Know...Again, I am trying something different bcuz the other stuff wasnt working for M. But I want everyone to know I am working on me, and the fact that I am doing different things makes me feel better about myself, I can look back and say I tried
There is a lesson in this, originally you moved quickly and she responded accordingly, crisis/fear of loss, afraid to lose you during the first separation because you wouldn't stand for BS. The dynamic changed this time, she did it first, filed for D and you started to change and act differently to get her back. This is exactly how it worked. If you had done the same thing this time before she had filed, you would have rec'd the same result as you did originally and BTW you don't need to let everyone know that you're doing things differently to make you feel better, improving your life is for your benefit, nobody else, no one else gets to live your life, only you do. You can hope to set an example for your kids to do the same but your goal in life is to live a great life.
I am trying to mix it up a bit. I have given her something to show some affection and love but I am also detached not showing to be needy showing strength. I guess the best way to put it is that I want to work on M, but if it doesnt happen I will move on....The waiting game is what sucks. I know a lot of people here would rahter it be done, or get back to working on M, but we all have to wait.
Why are you trying to mix it up? That's my question.
What is the goal of this action? Let her go, that's the quickest way for her to come back if she wants to come back at all and that's not guaranteed, never has been and never will be but you won't get her back with a few gift certs. Showing affection, buy gifts, changing for her benefit are all forms of pursuing, pursuing women this way doesn't work, never has, never will - these are the things that aren't working, these are things that you are doing, that is your reality, don't fight reality, it is what it is, accept it, use it, learn from it. You don't tell her you want to work on the marriage because that is pursuing especially when someone has filed for divorce, you just agree with her decision, you make it your decision too. You agree with her and she has nothing to fight against, if you want the same thing, how could she fight you? You let her go, she wants a divorce, you say "YES I TOTALLY AGREE!", saying anything else will just communicate the fact that you want to be with someone who doesn't want to be with you and these forums are filled with spouses that communicate this very same thing to their wayward spouses and guess what....It never works. It's pursuing, it's chasing, and if something or someone chases you, you normally run away from them, that's just the reality of human nature.
There is so much more to go through in your thread but I wanted to chime in, it's definitely been a while and you need to get back on track.
robx will you look at my sit and hit me with a 2 x 4 for all the wrong things I have done?
Rob you nailed it!! Nicely put. Everyone should read and learn from this.
PMA
You are all correct. Robx thanks for getting back on my sitch. W has called me 3 times this morning i did not answer. I texted her about 2 hours later and asked her what she needed? she keeps asking about stuff at the house, things she can look for herself. I simply said I brought over what I could, and that she can get the rest of her stuff. I then asked her where the kids will be at 4? I am going to pick them up and take them to church and let them spend the night.
She finally is posting on FB again talking about taking on the world, wanted more kids and the fact our S is impatient and school and comments how he is just like his Daddy with impatience. Go figure.
She is on her fantasy cloud right now, and as it does eat at me a bit, I have to ignore it, this is all still relatively new, and she feels she has control, I need to take the control back. I believe the only way I can lead right now is to plan stuff with the kids, and just enjoy my time with them. I need to stop focusing on her, and as TH says stop letting her tell me what I am doing right and wrong.
I'm still going through your thread but on this last post you made, shortest distance between 2 points is a straight line:
"Wife I'm sure you are more than capable of checking up on the stuff at the house that you keep asking me about and I would appreciate that you do that. If it's really important by all means, involve me, but if it's smaller trivial stuff, I trust you can make the decision on your own without involving me on every little thing."
As far as the facebook highschool stuff,
same thing:
"Wife I would appreciate it if you would NOT comment about me on facebook, I think it's childish and disrespectful to talk about me to your crackbook friends and commenting that our son is impatient just like me. It's not necessary to talk about our son or myself on crackbook, please and thank you. Our separation and eventual divorce is what it is, let's keep this as mature as possible, it's whats best for the kids and us in the end."
It's not that hard, you just have to say the words, push them out of your mouth and direct them toward her without getting argumentative and confrontational, just be confident and firm when you say these things, and don't text or email her or leave a voicemail, the next time you see her in person, bring it up, like this: "Hey I've been meaning to talk to you about a few things...."
Take care of business instead of complaining quietly in a remote location. That's how you take back control otherwise you will always be complaining about how it eats at you.
When you start communicating confidently and effectively and letting her know that she's crossing boundaries she shouldn't be, that's when she will stop telling you what you are doing is wrong or right.
You can handle it, just do it.
robx will you look at my sit and hit me with a 2 x 4 for all the wrong things I have done?
LOL!
Nice! It always amazes me that people ask to be hit with 2x4's! It makes me think that most of you know what you are doing is wrong or off course, you just want to hear someone else say it ;-)
Here's a quick tip:
live a great life, a life that you truly enjoy, in the end how many lives do you think you get to live? Wouldn't you rather live a good, fulfilling life, something that others would admire and want to emulate and be a part of?
If your spouses want to join you in your great life, they will, if they don't, consider it their loss (seriously it is their loss), they will sit in their corners, mumbling and grumbling and acting pissy towards you because of your ability to be happy and move on with your life without dying inside & crying 24/7 because of the loss of the relationship.
Read that last part a few times and determine which person you are: the happy one moving on with their great life or the one sitting in the corner being angry at the world with the "life isn't fair" attitude.
Which one of those attitudes is attractive?
ROb,
I already sent her a text saying, you should go to the old house and have a look yourself, I am swamped right now, I will get the kids later. She replied that she was not asking me to..... just that there is so much stuff that I brought over.
I will not reply to that, she can be a big girl and go look herself. As far as the FB, I dont wnat her to think I am focusing on her page, So I guess I dont even want to bring it up. The way it reads I dont think it was an insult, we always joked about my impatience, waiting on her to get ready, driving places, you name it I complained about it.
Rob I feel I am throwing off the right attitude, I am having a life, I am not pouty, or sad around her or any of that. I have not brought up the R or asked her to reconsider her decision in weeks. I have moved in with a buddy and she is at her new place.
I told her over the weekend that I was fine with her decision and that being together right now is not going to work. I have not done anything to contradict that statement. It is natural I guess to feel sad when the W puts stuff out there that she is on top of the world where she is at right now, she hasnt even been in her place for a week yet, so I guess my impatience is getting the best of me.
Read that last part a few times and determine which person you are: the happy one moving on with their great life or the one sitting in the corner being angry at the world with the "life isn't fair" attitude.
Tigger or Eeyore
The wonderful thing about tiggers
Is tiggers are wonderful things!
Their tops are made out of rubber;
Their bottoms are made out of springs!
They're bouncy, trouncy, flouncy, pouncy,
Fun! Fun! Fun! Fun! Fun!
But the most wonderful thing about tiggers is
I'm the only one!
Oh the wonderful thing about tiggers
Is tiggers are wonderful chaps!
They're loaded with vim and with vigor;
They love to leap in your laps!
They're jumpy, bumpy, clumpy, thumpy,
Fun! Fun! Fun! Fun! Fun!
But the most wonderful thing about tiggers is
I'm the only one!
Tiggers are cuddly fellas.
Tiggers are awfully sweet.
Ev'ryone else is jealous.
That's why I repeat and repeat:
The wonderful thing about tiggers
Is tiggers are wonderful things!
Their tops are made out of rubber;
Their bottoms are made out of springs!
They're bouncy, trouncy, flouncy, pouncy,
Fun! Fun! Fun! Fun! Fun!
But the most wonderful thing about tiggers is
I'm the only one!
As stupid as that song is you know you just sang it.
http://www.fredscorner.nl/winniethepooh/mp3/tigger-fredscorner.mp3
Thats funny coach I did sing the song, I really need to get moving in theright direction for ME!!!!
The W texted me and asked if I wanted her to drop off the kids at my house after she picks them up? I said i am in the city, I will pick them up as originally planned. She did not respond. I did this because as TH says, I cant keep letting her be in the drivers seat, was it just a nice gesture on her part? maybe maybe not, but I basically just told her lets stick to whatwe agreed to earlier and left it at that.
Hahaha on the Tigger stuff.
Before things went South for me, my X called me Tigger because I was so "bouncy".
I kidd you not, the house has Holiday decorations galore in storage with that character: Gigantical Tigger in a Santa's cap, Tigger with bat wings, Tigger is everywhere. I even have some Tigger guitar picks.
--Good days back when I was Tigger
I missed that guy while he was away for most of the last year
I did this because as TH says, I cant keep letting her be in the drivers seat
Actually, I said you need to get out in front and lead. You do this by making lists of things that need to be done and then doing them if nothing else works
TH, like I said I can only lead for me right now, I am living with a buddy and 4 dogs, W has a better "home" for our children right now. I am leaving law enforcement to get a new company off the ground. I have a lot to get done, and I need to focus on that. Truly my kids are better where they are at right now. I need to make more time for them, but in the best interest of the kids, what W has done is best for them right now. Things do happen for a reason, I did not jump on any rental which looking back now I would have been stuck with a large home, large payment by myself. So that happened for a reason.
Tonight will be the first night I will have the kids, w will have a break. I feel I took the lead here, made plans for it and didn't ask the W she did not seem to mind and did not have a fit about it. I will not ask what she is doing nor will I ask tomorrow.
The kid exchange went fine, W seemed a little blah, she is getting a dose of this choice, She started to tell the kids to be good for daddy, which I said they will be fine, then she started to tell me when they need to be up, I interrupted her and said W I can handle it and walked off. I was playful with the kids and did not really talk to the W much, she had a client waiting on her which she was 15 mins late to. Not easy to be on time and spur of the moment in the real world.....
Church was great with the kids. The point was a back to school blessing, our pastor talked about all the trials of school. The part that stuck out to me and the reason I post it here is this:
He emphasized on the fact that when someone at school puts you down, it is the person insulting the other who feels weak, or insecure. That made me think a bit, My W says that I have done all these things wrong, when in reality she is putting all her insecurities and guilt on me, and not owning up to her issues. So I think it hit me tonight, she is the one that needs the most healing, and to find out what she has to deal with that makes her the way she is. I dont want to be with her right now, and on the way home her texts firmed that up for me here it goes:
W: Call when you leave church(i had beep off so I didnt get it until we were almost back to my place)
Me:They are asleep in the car
W: U were supposed to let me know when you left
At this point I wanted to go off on her, but I didnt
Me: I just now saw your text
W:Church started at 7 when did you leave church?
Me:What does it matter?
W: Did you even go to church?
At this point the kids were awake, and I had them talk to their Mother. I could over hear her asking if we went to church and stuff like that. S didnt really want to talk to her, but to be respectful I handed him the phone and said talk to your Mother. He talked a bit and the signal faded.
I originally wanted to light her up, but felt it would just get into a pissing contest so that is why I responded the way I did. Should I have lit her up? was I too passive? All I thought about driving back and re reading her texts I felt this is not a way I want to be treated. She didnt ask me, should was telling me what to do. Totally disrespectful which I was going to put the Robx twist on it about the crap behavior, but I think its warly for that. I was calm and just didnt engage the enemy. Im sitting in my foxhole letting her shoot bullets that are just going over my head, as I rest and prepare for tomorrow.
W texted me tonight asking " what is (buddys name) address where you are staying? I did not respond it was 10:30 at night and I will see her in the morning after I drop S off and drop D off at her house. If she asks again, I will tell her. I have noticed a lot more of her being (nosy) since we have been in different homes. She could be building ammo for hearing, but I am not going to put up a big fight? It is what it is, times are tough financially, she borrowed money from family to setup the "ward Cleaver" i should say june cleaver household for her and the kids. The last S I used everything in my power to fight her out of anger and hurt, this time I am being amicable. no confrontation just making a stance for things that are not monetary and being me.
I used to try and use money as a tool, when money is short it cant be used as a tool, I am being totally diffferent from the way I was with the first separation, and I can see she is somewhat being the same way as the first S, and I am completely being the opposite. It could be getting to her that I am this way now, dont know but I feel ok. Yes I go through bits of anger and hurt, then I just tell myself it is what it is.
Dropped S off at school, walked him to his class and he didnt want me to leave. Took D to W's house, where she was in her robe and put makeup on. She asked me some stupid stuff, like if the table I am storing was moved would her car fit in the garage? doesnt take a genius to figure that out. I gave D big hugs and kisses and was cheerful, I was trying to get out of there and the W kept trying to talk about little stuff. I had short answers and said I have to go. She did not ask again about the address I am staying at. Since she has moved out her memory is crap. Any thoughts about my previous posts?
Any thoughts??? Yes. You are going great. Keep it up. No talk unless it's about the kids. Need to know basis... GAL.. Create mystery.... Intrigue.... Attraction...
Stay strong for the kids. Give her enough rope to choke herself with.
Stay strong. PMA
Since you asked... I think this bit is too passive and that you probably over compensated because you were angry, so... the net result... is it sounds passive-aggressive.
Assertive will work for you better, I think.
Example: "I didn't see your text until now, but since you asked, I feel like you are being very controlling".
It's the truth, right?
How can she argue with your feelings? You tried arguing with hers in the past, and how well did that work?
Your feelings are your feelings.
And if she invalidates your feelings, you just respond, "well, that's how I feel".
PS. I should add that empathy is OK too.
E.g. "I didn't see your text until now. I know this is difficult for you too,but I feel like you are being very controlling".
TH,
yes I should have made it a little clearer. Still better than I have been right?
PMA just read your response. I do feel better each day, I am lining up projects to get done, and will be even better when I get busier.
Yes, it is better. You aren't supplicating yourself.
Now back to the assertive, confident, charming man that really lives inside of you who is dying to return since this truama triggered all of these patterned responses.
W: Call when you leave church(i had beep off so I didnt get it until we were almost back to my place)
Me:They are asleep in the car
W: U were supposed to let me know when you left
At this point I wanted to go off on her, but I didnt
Me: I just now saw your text
W:Church started at 7 when did you leave church?
Me:What does it matter?
W: Did you even go to church?
I'm a comedian and smart a$$ by nature, I saw that last line and had to comment on it,
who lies about going to church?
LOL!
If I ever had to lie about going somewhere, I'd definitely pick another location to lie about.
Too funny.
who lies about going to church?
LOL!
Rob, and humor is very charming and attractive
That works too. Very "Cary Grant".
Yes guys I thought that was pretty funny as well. I have lied about stupid stuff before, but going to church? how could she ask that, the controlling and where do you go when your not with me definately came out. People have told me she wants to be independent, but doesnt want anyone else to occupy my time. I guess she wants me to curl up in the corner in a fetal position crying and sucking my thumb!
People have told me she wants to be independent, but doesnt want anyone else to occupy my time.
= leverage
Yes Coach, but what makes her think she is entitled to that?
YOU if you enable it. Just like you, all she can CONTROL is herself.
If she chooses not to be with you then YOU are free to choose to be with other people.
Fair is fair.
but what makes her think she is entitled to that?
She's not as detached as she appears.
Yes Coach, but what makes her think she is entitled to that?
Why do you allow it in the first place?
If you allow someone to control you, are they to blame or are you?
No one is entitled to do this, but by being passive and quiet and allowing it, you technically entitled her to be this way.
Yes Robx PMA and Coach, I have allowed it, so I need to end it. She does not have the right to know my whereabouts or if I have the kids, they are always safe with me, whether its church or chuck e cheese I dont need to give her my schedule with the kids.
That's the spirit soldier!!
Just say that in a confident, respectful manner and you
will be fine.
I own it, the W does not. She feels that the majority of our problems are me. She has a habit of being on her "high horse" at times and looking at everything negative,
This is interesting considering during your first separation she had an affair - so she doesn't own that problem either? She doesn't realize the fact that you can't trust her the way you used to, if she is that oblivious, why do you want to be with her? It can't just be about the kid.
W says to S come on xander you know your daddy cant eat just one, and she smiled and looked at me. I said well if I had my yogurt I could of had my usual breakfast of yogurt and grape nuts(yum). SHe laughed then apologized because she was suppose to go to the store 4 days ago and has been slacking.
You've mentioned a few times throughout your thread that she is a bit of slacker, impulsive, jumps in with both feet without realizing what she's getting into, etc. It will be interesting to see how she maintains the household on her own when she has the kids on the days that you do not. Allow her to wear her BGP's (big girl panties) and be fine with it. Regardless of how your relationship ends up, her learning how to be independent and responsible and having to think before she acts will benefit her and your children when they are with her, it's not going to happen overnight but it will happen.
I am not trying to look into it too much, but its still a little hopeful.
You always look into "it" too much and you are way too hopeful and that's what keeps you in that endless loop of making similar mistakes often.
So I get home from buying a new suit(for some interviews next week) set the stuff on the counter and get on my laptop. W walks in the house unexpectedly, stands in the kitchen and starts looking through my stuff, I didnt say anything. She starts to tell me she had to get a change of clothes for D, and starts rambling and my phone rings for an interview. I had to take it, W is still talking and I just went into the phone call. She walked out a little pissy, and got back in her car and left. I continued my phone interview which turned out to be pretty good. They want to meet with me next week. I am not going to apologize for it, if she brings it up I will simply say, it was an important call I had to take, didnt think you would be home.
I think she thought i was getting the suit for our day in court, LOL!!!!!
Make sure you wear that suit when you do appear in court so that you can "validate" her thoughts. ;-)
Ok people, W called me out of the blue, I was busy making the kids dinner. She started with small talk and I tried to get off the phone, politely of course. She asked me If I was serious about my proposal. I said yes I am. For those of you following my thread, I have issues with lying about stupid stuff which is my part of breaking the M down(on my part). In any case she says she wants to believe I want to work on the M. I told her that I have not told any friends or family about the D. They all know we are having problems but they dont know she filed.
She wants to believe me, which obviously takes time to restore trust. She asked me if i go to C on tuesday. I said yes he offered for you to call him if you need to(transperancy). She asked if I go to the church group on thursdays, I said yes I can give you the number of my group leader(again transparency). She asked me why I havent told anyone about the filing, then she said because you want to save the M? I said I cannot save the M, I said I want to work on a new M, but that takes both of us, not just me, I cannot fix anything but myself.
I could tell she wanted to keep talking, but I told her I need to feed the kids and this is better done in person. I dont know what to think right now, I have been a solid DBer the last few days and GAL is getting to her quickly. I think maybe the reality of the sitch is setting in to her a bit, I can tell she is still scared. Any advice as too how to handle it when she gets home? I have about 2 hours, she is working late.
These are still more hoops your wife is getting you to jump through. She has issues with you lying about small stuff and she can't trust you because of that - I don't think that's what caused this marriage to self-destruct. Plus you are worried about building back trust with a woman who cheated on you?! What requirements did you place on her for building back trust? Did you even care? No more jumping through hoops or any other great tricks that are intended for dogs. Telling her you wanted to work on the marriage backfired and I originally said it would. When your wife wants to leave you, she had made that decision based on her feelings, she feels the need to get away from you, she feels the need to be on her own, she doesn't have those feelings for you and she probably doesn't know why she feels this way but she does know that the feelings are real. You tell her you want to work on the marriage, this is against her feelings, she gives you small signs of hope, almost agreeing to the possibility of reconciliation but that was to keep you in line, but you don't see that yet. She filed for divorce, she got her new place to live at (even if it was with her dad's help, she still has her own place, you however are living with a friend, you may have scoffed at her attempt to be independent but give her some credit, she did it and she did it in record time). Realize that whenever you guys talk about the marriage and talks of possibly reconciling are discussed especially in a discussion where you end up leading that discussion, she is just giving you false hope. You will know when she really wants to work on the marriage, it's when you've given up and she realizes that you don't want to fight for her or the marriage anymore, that's the point where she will finally realize that for you it's over. At that point if she really loves and wants to be with you, she will pursue you and it will be evident and she will talk marriage and reconciliation and all that good stuff. You won't achieve this by pursuing her and talking about this stuff. You have to be of the opposite point of view, you tried your best, she said no, you respect her decision and you move on with your life.
Example: You've been working at a job for a few years, your boss one day lets you go. Do you keep arguing with him and pursuing him for days, weeks, months, years, asking to get your old job back? No that would be silly. Yet you're doing the same thing now with your wife. Accept reality and move on, take care of you and your kids, get ready to date other women and guess what, when that happens, don't be surprised if your wife shows up trying to convince you that your marriage is worth fighting for. Women don't want guys that pursue them with an attitude that they have nothing else to go for in life - how attractive is that?
W came home, and was beat she sat on the chair and fell asleep, she has to be at work job 1 at 7 am until 3, then off to job 2 at 5-midnight. Hope she is liking the reality... anyway we did not discuss her earlier phone call, from a few posts up... I did not bring it up, when she is ready to talk about it we will.
When she is ready to talk about it, you will tell her that you are busy and hopefully you guys can find some time to talk later - don't be available for every discussion, it's not required and definitely makes you too easy and available.
Had an interview this morning, W I guess went by the house, she called me, I answered and said i am finishing up my interview, she had a lot of questions, my whereabouts and such, I reminded her that I had an interview this morning, she obviously forgot, She seems to be reacting to the fact I am moving on with my life, getting my s!t in order. She will be a part of it or not, her choice. But I am friendly, told her good luck with her trade show that she is goig to for about 3 hours, she tanked me for that amd told her I had to get going. I am patting myself on the back, I am doing what I need to be doing, not clingy and moving along "as if". She is noticing I believe...
The real reminder would have been:
"Look wife, we're separated and soon to be divorced, I don't come after you questioning you about your whereabouts every minute of every day and you need to stop doing that with me. You wanted separate lives and this is what you're getting and you need to stop asking me for every detail - I don't like it/appreciate it and it needs to stop. Please respect my personal space as I respect yours, please & thank you"
dsh,
You are right about her not needing to know what you are up to with your kids. It is your time. Enjoy it without her knowing your whereabouts.
Good service at church. The message was about people losing themselves in trying to make their own "image" perfect. It had a lot of insight to what a lot of WA's i think go through. They look back on their M or R, and think this cant be all there is to life, so they try to paint this perfect picture, they pound it in their heads that this new life will be perfect, so they start to believe it. In reality we the LBS once we figure ths out, we can truly detach. The fact they think about the this new life, if you can realize it wont be all its cracked up to be for them, you can let go. For some they will take the W or H back, for others, once you move on so far, your done. You dont want to take them back and put yourself through that misery again. I went through it 3 years ago, and regret taking her back more and more now. I should left her in the bed she made for herself and moved on then. But I did take her back more for my kids than anything. So where to go from here..... tick tock tick tock..... I know where I am going, moving ahead without her, if I take her back in 2 days or 2 months or 2 years, that will depend on how far into my journey I have progressed.
Again you are highlighting my point, you took her back and she never had to work to regain your trust, you never made her work to regain your respect, you made it too easy for her to come back and few years later she's ready to do it all over again. The easier something is, the less value it has because it can be obtained easily. The harder something is, the more value it has because it's harder to obtain. If you could step out your front door and scoop up a handful of perfect diamonds out of your flowerbed, do you think they would be as valuable and expensive? Nope.
When did you decide to stop being a diamond?
You let her turn around your entire situation so that you are the one that has to build back trust, you are the one that has to work for her and not vice versa and guess where you're at? She doesn't want something easy and boring, she wants something valuable, challenging and exciting.
I think this separation is for the best, even if you did get back together again, she would do the same thing to you in a few years and you would be in the same mess all over again because she is too good at manipulating your mind and getting you to jump through all these hoops.
Methinks a few dates (aka social interactions with the opposite sex) in your near future will help turn things around for you and her. You start going with other women (keep it simple and non-sexual, don't hump the first skirt you go out with) and the word gets out, your street value will go up and Mrs.Dsh4320 will begin darkening your doorstep with her presence and working hard to get you back.
Just think about it.
...W stayed up and started to tell me about her day, we talked a bit, I think she was trying to through some things out there to test my jealousy, didnt react just listened to her about her day. She didnt ask about my day, I turn away for 3 mins and then she is asleep.
She wakes up tells me goodnight and makes her way upstairs. After about 10 mins she texts me and asks if the salon I got her a gift card at was open on sundays and if i would mind if she went tomorrow. I replied " I knew you would go on a sunday, I made sure they were open on sundays, no I dont mind". She replied with a thank you, and i replied with a your welcome. She did text me quite a bit today, nothing important, and she also made the effort to call me a few times today. I always ended the calls, and was friendly and polite.
We are going to church together tomorrow so I will be chipper and on my best behavior.
You were physically in the same house and she texted you?
I'm sorry bro but I think that's just disrespectful, if she couldn't walk a few steps to ask you the question in person that pretty much tells you why you shouldn't be buying her these gifts in the first place. You buy her a gift and she can't even ask you about it in person? I wouldn't tolerate that crap behavior, I would have ignored her text and if she asked about it the next day and why you ignored her text, I would have told her that asking in person while the two of you were in the same house is the respectful way to communicate between adults, you're not 13 and yes there is a difference, if she doesn't realize this then she has a lot of growing up to do.
...A friend of hers I ran into last night, said with our first S, even though she had OM, W kept focusing on what I was doing, she would even hack into my emails and stuff while we were S and after I filed for D. I guess no matter how much she says she is done, is she really> her friend says the W gets like this and even though she wants to walk away she doesnt want anyone else to have me. Friend asked if I would take her back? I said right now if she was willing to work on it I would, but if D goes through I am done. I am not going to do this every couple of years with the W, when she gets unhappy time to run. She needs to grow out of that mentality its childish and frankly I am sick of it.
So when she cheated on you with another man, she also hacked into your emails and such but you have to build back trust now because you read her journal a few times and lied about a few small things? When does she have to build back trust? In fact, how important could a relationship be to her if she never had to work to build back your trust after what she did? She's probably bored, you're too easy, you let her back in without having to work for it and she came back just for the security of the family life rather than sticking it out on her own. Something to think about.
Rob man I missed your goofy @ss!!!! A lot has happened since you were away. I have thought about the first S and I did let her back to easy. I do give her credit for getting her sht together so quickly. But again she has to maintain it.....
I sent her a text that I was getting the kids at 4 to go to the gym with me and asked where they would be. She said at the daycare with her unless she got off early. I told her if she did she could leave and I will just pick the kids up at the daycare and pay for any additional time. She then texted back that she would juststick around there. I basically said whatever.
I did not ask her, I told her. I have been taking more of a stance like this lately. Again Robx lot of your comments are from stuff a few weeks ago, obviously we are a lot further along in this mess. The more I stay away from her the better I feel right now. Ive got one of my balls back, need to go find the other one, must be on the street between her house and mine.
A few weeks ago in your situation is like a few minutes ago in your situation if you keep repeating the same mistakes and doing the same things, something to think about.
and yes, I'm glad you missed my goofy a$$, in a platonic, heterosexual, man friend kind of way, I don't want you or bustorama offering me bum rubs anytime soon ;-)
Rob I will not do any bum rubs on you or any other man!!!!! cant speak for Bustorama. I am starting to go out, interact with others. I am not going to jump in the sack with anyone too soon. I will just keep doing what im doing now, which is working for me. I am focusing now on work and also my kids. At the same time, I do not tell the W much any more. If she starts to pry I will not tell her any details, just doing my thing.
jesus, she doesnt stop,,,, as i TYPED MY LAST post she texted me and asked "why did you act funny this morning" I was not funny I was pretty calm, goofy with my D and left the house.
I dont need to reply do I? or should I ask her what she means? I think I will just not reply.
Sh!t its her time of the month as well, I probably need to be really dark for the next 4-5 days
no you don't have to do anything,
I find it interesting that she seems to up her texting quota per day with you now that you're separated ;-)
You actually need to start moving on with your life,
I know you're living with your buddy now but I would considering finding an apartment, at least a 2 bedroom or a small house to rent and start making it your home - you're still in transition, you're not on your own yet. I hear you about the new business and being busy, that's good but let's not keep that reason from letting you proceed with your life. You & your kids need a home (apartment, condo, house, whatever) to live in that is your own place not someone else's, some place that you can personalize and make your own home so that the kids feel comfortable there as well.
You can do it.
As for replying to her text,
let her be for a bit, I wouldn't bother replying to her every text, if she continues to hound you, tell her plain & simple "this whole process has made me realize that I really need my space from you, to figure out what I want in my life. I expect to communicate with you concerning the kids but I think we can keep anything that doesn't concern them to a minimum, we're both adults, I think we can handle it, we pretty much have to now."
And leave it at that and if she texts a hundred message after that range from "WTF" to "you're just angry about all of this and being childish" to "I knew I was right about you", don't reply to any of them, give her the gift of missing you.
thanks Rob, I agree I have not sent her anything. I do need my own place, with some savings I have I am trying to make every penny last right now. Once I get these projects under way 1-2 months I will move. Cant do an apartment I have 2 big doggies a mastiff and an Akita, apartments only let you bring cats and rat dogs.
Her texting has increased quite a bit, sometimes I respond sometimes I dont. I need to let her mind wander a bit.
here's a rule you may want to follow:
If she texts about the kids, obviously communicate with her, anything about the kids is definitely responding to
If she texts just to take your temperature or shoot the $hit, take your time responding, in the end it's up to you if you have to respond at all but don't feel obligated to maintain the "gay friend" relationship
(nothing wrong with being gay if you want to be gay, just saying) ;-)
W had an early appt. She came home to take the kids to daycare, I was dressed up for an interview, and the first thing she said was that I looked nice. I thanked her, and she took the kids to daycare. She is very chipper today, and it drives me crazy, it gets me boiling that she can be so happy at times. I know that is normal but it still affects me, her ups and downs, but the ups get to me the most because I think it hurts the ego. You feel that you are not important to them and they can be completely fine with the way things are, that is the toughest for me to deal with.
Aren't people allowed to be happy?
You should be that happy!
It might affect her the same way as it affects you ;-)
The punches keep coming. W and I Talked about S school, had to pry a bit, but W has already signed a lease on a place for her and the kids, and has enrolled S in school. Originally I was uspet about this, then I realized its probably for the best. I realize I am trying to rush my changes, and it is coming across as false. W is done, she stated she keeps waffling back and forth, but in reality she is making her "actions" towards filing and leaving. I dont believe what she says, but the fact she filed and signed a lease last week are pretty good indicators that she is moving on.
So she can do this, work 2 jobs and handle the kids half the time and you can't, c'mon bro, you know we know better than that, you can do anything as good if not better than she can, no more excuses on this.
She told me she doesnt believe I am ready to change, she feels the IC and the other things I am doing are just to make her feel better. She is upset that I received a mailer from Twin Peaks, she says you dont respect our M. I wanted to defend myself, on some points I did most of them i did not, I let her speak and I listened. She is freaked out that I am already dating, which is one point I stood firm on that was not the case. I can tell she is very tore up about this, she is friendly but she gets very emotional when we talk. She is still very attached, but she is set in her ways right now.
Cheating on you wasn't respecting the marriage either but what did you say to her when she did it? Seems like she is totally oblivious as to her part in the marital situation, this is her continuing to walk all over you when you let her say stuff like this. You are allowed to be honest with her without turning into Mr.Melty Man, "hey lady, I don't trust you, after you cheated on me and had an affair with the OM, I haven't been able to trust you, you don't act in ways that would make me believe that you respect our marriage and I find it very disrespectful that you keep putting this on me. You broke the trust that was between us and you keep putting the requirement on me to rebuild trust, I don't feel the need to chase you after what you did to our marriage, if you have high expectations please place them on yourself before you even consider applying them to me, this is the end of this never ending discussion on respecting our marriage and what I haven't been able to do as far as living up to your standards, it's time for you to consider the fact that you haven't been living up to my standards, I know what I'm worth, it's time for me to go out there and get it, this separation has opened my eyes to that much."
I forgot to mention, the W still wants to do counseling next month? strange I guess, and she also mentioned that she did not feel the buddy I am going to live with is a good idea, she referred to the house as a bachelor pad, and used the kids as a reason to say, I dont think its a good environment for them. dont know what to think of that. I guess she is not completely detached.
As for the counseling, you decide if you want to go or not, don't feel pressured into doing it if you don't want to. I tell people that counseling is for people that really want to work on the marriage, if you're both just hanging around jumping in puddles continuing to make a messes, counseling will do nothing for you. Counseling is for people that have goals: marriage reconcilation, improving a relationship, etc. If you're going to counseling just to argue and use the counselor as a referee, don't bother, it's just a waste of time & money unless you both share a common goal for the counseling.
As for your buddy's place being a bachelor pad, well... it is.
That's why I've been pushing for you to get your own place. She has revealed her cards in that move, she will use that against you in court when it comes time to discuss child custody - I $hit you not, get your act together because all she really has to do is establish what could possibly happen, the courts will decide in the best interests of the children, not in her or your best interest. Remember this now because I've mentioned this several times, be prepared.
Don't worry about her attachment level, worry about your own.
if you have high expectations please place them on yourself before you even consider applying them to me,
In my best Cary Grant impersonation voice, "You're generous to a fault. Just not with other peoples' faults. Sure, you can appreciate human frailty... only when it's your own".
In my best booming thunderous voice, "Judge not lest ye be judged".
Moral? She has two standards: one for you, and one for her. Heads she wins, tails you lose.
Thanks Rob,
I went to get the kids at the daycare, D wanted to go with me, S said he wanted to stay and play. W looked at me and asked if it was ok, I smiled and said he is fine. Took the D to gym and went back to drop her off the W. I walked in the daycare (pumped up from the gym)(felt fit
) I gave both the kids hugs and kisses and threw them up in the air a few times. I told W cya and started to walk out. She asked me if i was going to answer her text? I said oh ya, I have been really busy. She started to ummm ummm again and I said oh by the way, I want the kids to stay the night with me tomorrow night. She said my dad might be coming in to town. I said I have not seen them enough and I want to spend time with them. She says my Dad doesnt get to see them often either. This is where I almost lost it.
Bit I kept come and stated in a firm voice looking right in her eyes, they are not your dad's kids they are my kids. She could not respond started to walk off and say I will remember that when your parents are in town and I have them. I did not fall into her argue trap, I picked up my D and started tickling her. D started to cry and didnt want me to leave, she kept saying she wnted to go home with me. I had to pry her off me and leave. The W had a pissed off look on her face, but you know what? I dont give a sh!t anymore about hurting her feelings, oh I forgot, she said she doesnt like the kids hanging out at a house with a bunch of "single people" I said I am looking for a place of my own and should be out in a month. this was before the outburst.
For her to use the kids as a way to control things, really is disrespectful. I wish I could speak some of the wise words that have been offered to me on this site, but I dont remember it all when I get steamed.
But I felt good about putting my foot down, after she was told I was taking them tomorrow night, I said I will pick them up tomorrow.
It felt somewhat liberating to take the lead for a change, and tell her I am taking the kids. She does not look happy lately, she also asked me about working, I did not answer her. I have some projects going, and after the D papers I setup the new company in my parents name and will receive a smal salary to manage the projects. This way I can go to court and say I am getting 2K a month gross, and if that increases after a while it will be after the D. What do you guys and gals think?
Good Man!
You don't have to be a prick or an a$$hole to be effective in these situations but you do have to stand up for yourself when it's required.
I heard someone was looking for @$$rubs over here.
busto no @ss rubs here, not from men anyway. Thanks Rob it felt good and liberating. I finally picked myself up from being the door mat and said enough. I know people say women find it attractive, but i didnt do it for that. I did it for me. She has been in the driver's seat for so long I finally had to throw her in the back seat for my kids. I am looking for places to move to and will get a lease or something before our court date in 2 weeks. She is so selfish and stuborn right now, she looks at me putting my foot down as manipulative, but that is the way she has been for quite some time, she needs to look in the friggin mirror.
Not much to report, W has been silent since I put my foot down, I feel it will be like this for a while. i will not let it bother me. Her idea of being civil through this is her having control, no more. I will text her tomorow about picking up the kids about 2 hours before, and make sure she has packed stuff for them. I was a little hard on john28 tonight, but dammit I think he is making the same mistakes I have made in the last 2 months.
Hi dsh,
Just wanted to let you know that i have started reading your thread. No advice at this time. I'll just follow along.
i will not let it bother me. Her idea of being civil through this is her having control, no more.
I have noticed that a lot on here, and even in my own situation: The WAS, mind made up and set on divorce, has an agenda already laid out and it executing it. They generally (both men and women) seem to expect the LBS to remain in pursuit mode, act like good spouses with low self-esteem, and play along with the whole drama to help normalize the whole thing for them.
The one time, in my specific situation, that my X had doubts was after nearly 6 weeks of being dark. Unfortunately, when she said she might want to try again, I went all melty man around date 3 or 4, and I was back in pursuit mode, and things went downhill from there. I was back on script, so she could continue with the script she had in mind.
I hope for reconcillation for everyone even though I know it is a long shot.
But know this, if you can really, really detach with empathy and love, if you can stop listening to your ego (which needs all kinds of validation, likes getting what it wants, and which follows a course based only on your emotions, not hers as well) there is hope. But hope is a distant thing now.
Right now, I think rob has you on the right track: get a kid-friendly home for yourself so that you do not wind up in divorce court trying to defend yourself and your home as your wife's lawyer argues that you cannot provide a safe environment for them.
I know you say you are a busy guy. I believe you and wish you luck, but you do have kids, so you have to make time for them and take care of them too (other busy dads do it, so you will do it too).
Make your kids and YOU your top priorities. Remain open to the possibility of reconcillation, but know that it is a long shot, and you cannot argue your wife into it.
All of us here could use more success stories, and all of us here have heard too many "how I let myself get screwed over and even sort of encouraged it" stories. Good luck.
Thanks TH,
I am going to go look at places this weekend. I will get a better place situated for me and the kids, I have found a few complexes that are nice and welcome large dogs. Like I said I am feeling better every day. A buddy called me last night and invited me to a UFC party Saturday with a bunch of people form his Crossfit Gym. Should be a good time and meet new people.
From this point forward the only contact with the W will be all business and the kids. I will be cheerful and funny*which I have been). I agree that Rob has me on the right track. I read through more of his threads last night and it all makes more sense to me. As I was thinking last night, W is still attractive (physically) but the way she is acting I am losing the attraction mentally with her. I am starting to feel more of the why would I want to be with someone who is like her?
She hasnt done anything to change her ways, I could be the perfect H and she would still find reasons to complain about the M. I cant do it any more.
Thanks TH,
I am going to go look at places this weekend. I will get a better place situated for me and the kids, I have found a few complexes that are nice and welcome large dogs. Like I said I am feeling better every day. A buddy called me last night and invited me to a UFC party Saturday with a bunch of people form his Crossfit Gym. Should be a good time and meet new people.
From this point forward the only contact with the W will be all business and the kids. I will be cheerful and funny*which I have been). I agree that Rob has me on the right track. I read through more of his threads last night and it all makes more sense to me. As I was thinking last night, W is still attractive (physically) but the way she is acting I am losing the attraction mentally with her. I am starting to feel more of the why would I want to be with someone who is like her?
She hasnt done anything to change her ways, I could be the perfect H and she would still find reasons to complain about the M. I cant do it any more.
I think you really need to start asking yourself that question and force yourself to answer it after considering a few things:
- she cheated on you prior to your first separation
- she never rebuilt that trust back
- you got back together again probably for the kid's sake not your own
- you have just been existing in this relationship, it isn't mutually fulfilling for either of you
- she is making you jump through all these hoops to make you prove to her that you are a good man, good husband, good parent... how many hoops has she had to jump through to prove the same to you?
- she's attractive physically, great, I get that and for men, this is a big factor, the male gender is visually motivated when it comes to attraction, we're hardwired to seek out physically attractive women: things like facial symmetry, boob size, bum size, waste size, leg length, calf size, hair color, eye color, height, weight all play into the big picture of what attracts men to women, that is reality that is how men are built. But what happens after the years go by and the shiny face of hers isn't as shiny anymore? You are left with this wife that has been treating you badly, manipulating you, making you believe that you have to work hard for her even though she cheated on you? And it worked too, she's pretty good at this. Is that part attractive to you? Someone who manipulates you and makes you feel bad for questioning the hurtful things she's done towards you?
A few things to think about bro.
Yes Rob,
Another hit on the head. Honestly I can look back and say I think I did get back with her out of convienance and not really for what I wanted. She can be so full of herself, and that just turns me off more and more. I can say when we first started to work on things she was being the way she was when I fell for her, but the last 6 months she has gone back to being controlling and manipulative. She got me to chase her as she walked away, and now I have stopped and slowly turning in the other direction, it is the best thing for me to do.
I agree with Rob. Sometimes us men are too easy to manipulate if we follow our own ego: we can either get too hopeful and pursue somebody who offers crumbs or pout like a little boy.
Your wife has an ego too. But shhh! She's more in control of it, but stop letting her pull your strings and see it work.
I sent her a texr around 2 in regards to the kids:
Me:where will the kids be?
W; what time?
Me: 4
W;no plans....
Me: so at your house?
W: yeah
Me:i will get them around 430-500
W: I have to be at work at 5
W: U not going to gym?
Me: take them to work and I will get them there
W: U can ask me.....u know? U are starting to be awfully demanding and its rude
Me: Sorry you feel that way
W: Im sure u r.... I had plans and u are demanding that u get the kids and telling me when and where to take them for u
Me:U r working tonight correct? I need more time with them and you are not respecting that. Lets get a schedule setup and this will not be an issue.
W: was he there tues and wed?
Me:who were?
W: (roommates name) at yalls place(she does not like who i live with)
Me:Wed after kids I were asleep I believe(I told her earlier that he is hardly ever home)
Me: doesnt matter I am moving anyway
W:It does....
Me: I will not put my kids in harm's way, thats all I left to say
W:But you still moved in to an inappropriate environment. Why not your brothers if it was going to be temporary. I am not trying to argue I am just uncomfortable with the environment.
W: (roommates name) wasnt there the other night and he wont be tonight?
W: Hello
At this point I stopped responding to her. As I said in my last text I had said everything I had to say.
The fact I live with another guy, who is single does not make the environment unsafe for my kids. I am going to get a lease on a new place so she cant keep using the current living situation against me now or in court.
I feel she is still tring to pull my strings and control me using the kids as the bait, am I wrong thinking this? I am going to get my kids take them somewhere fun for dinner and watch a movie with them. She will try and talk to me when I pick them up any advice to keep it short and simple without coming off as an @ss?
I think you had better find another place because she has told you she is going to use it against you.
Dsh, you need to talk to your L about your living arrangement. Unless the guy is doing crack, she doean't have an objection. Robx gave you a script awhile back for informing your W that you will not be engaging with her anymore. Use it. Quit playing these passive aggressive games with her. Tell her what she needs to know and be done.
Rob also had some great advice for scheduling kids over on Dan's thread. Read it and get on a schedule. Lead by making a proposal. She will not agree to it given her need to control but you'll be in the driver's seat to counter.
By the way, the next time she says something about your roommate or being "single", remind her why you live there. She filed for D. It was not your choice. You're just trying to minimize the damage by not jumping into something without thinking first. That will be food for thought.
TH I have already started that process of getting another place.
Bluestar, I will propose a schedule to her. I think that is a good idea. As far as reminding her, I dont think i need to go there, I have not brought up the D with her at all. The roommate is a security consultant, he is just a single guy, no drugs or anything like that, I still carry a badge for now so obviously that is not her issue. The fact he is single, enjoys being single is what bothers her. But I needed to get into something quickly and this was the easiest for now.
I am going to get my own place in the next 2 weeks for just me, no roommates and when I ave the kids it will just be me and the kids.
Im so sick of this crap with her, it makes me wanna puke.
Im so sick of this crap with her, it makes me wanna puke.
Sadly, me too
Not yours; my own.
I had a STBXW calling and emailing all week long to tell me the final hearing is the 13th of next month.
I already knew that. My L told me.
That and a bunch of stuff about how she was glad to know me and good luck on my new life, blah, blah, blah.
I ignored all the emails and calls until today because I had nothing to say.
Tomorrow is my birthday, so I finally decided to go ahead and talk to her.
W. What are you doing?
TH: Trying to get the house ready before everybody comes over tomorrow.
W. Who's coming over.
TH. Well, my parents for starters.
W. Oh, that's right it's your birthday.
TH. <silence>
W. You there?
TH. This doesn't make any sense...
W. It makes sense. Our marriage...
TH. Let me finish.
W. OK.
TH. We're not going to be buddies.
W. Did you read my last note?
TH. You wanted a divorce, we're getting divorced, and I don't feel like there is anything left to talk about.
W. Alright. Take care.
TH. Bye.
So... you see...sometimes... if you don't pull back, they will wear you down until you lovingly embrace divorce yourself. As much as I value marriage, as much as I believe it takes strength and character to make it work, I am not up to somebody reminding me of how they are in control and bent on divorce on the eve of my birthday for no good reason.
Im so sick of this crap with her, it makes me wanna puke.
Sadly, me too
Not yours; my own.
I had a STBXW calling and emailing all week long to tell me the final hearing is the 13th of next month.
I already knew that. My L told me.
That and a bunch of stuff about how she was glad to know me and good luck on my new life, blah, blah, blah.
I ignored all the emails and calls until today because I had nothing to say.
Tommorrow is my birthday, so I finally decided to go ahead and talk to her.
W. What are you doing?
TH: Trying to get the house ready before everybody comes over tomorrow.
W. Who's coming over.
TH. Well, my parents for starters.
W. Oh, that's right it's your birthday.
TH. <silence>
W. You there?
TH. This doesn't make any sense...
W. It makes sense. Our marriage...
TH. Let me finish.
W. OK.
TH. We're not going to be buddies.
W. Did you read my last note?
TH. You wanted a divorce, we're getting divorced, and I don't feel like there is anything left to talk about.
W. Alright. Take care.
TH. Bye.
So... you see...sometimes... if you don't pull back, they will wear you down until you lovingly embrace divorce yourself. As much as I value marriage, as much as I believe it takes strength and character to make it work, I am not up to somebody reminding me of how they are in control and bent on divorce on the eve of my birthday for no good reason.
Brutal. Are you okay? Sounds like your a little down. I mean a little. Man, there will be someone better, there will be.
Yep. I'm good. I'm glad I said it. Maybe I won't have to hear legal updates from her on the 13th. Maybe she gets it now. I'm done.
Yep. I'm good. I'm glad I said it. Maybe I won't have to hear legal updates from her on the 13th. Maybe she gets it now. I'm done.
Good to hear man. You have been a great asset to this community. Thank you for all your help.
TH,
I agree, they reach for the control, and at what point do they realize the grip is not there? I dont mean to be so short with her and her reaction to my responses are: you dont have to be rude: well I dont have to be all gushy either, I am not going to be all friendly, ya I can show PMA GAL and all the other stuff but unless it has to do with the kids, I have checked the F**k out of your babbling BS, and listening to you over and over again about what I have done wrong in this M. Again look in the friggin mirror.
She has no clue how every relationship she had before me, every guy probably got fed up with her I am woman hear me roar attitude that they finally said, I dont need this woman in my life. She gave me 2 beautiful kids, which is the best thing that came out of this M. She is so attached to her family which has ignored her time and time again because of her spoiled attitude and they refer to her as drama mamma. Even my family has said if she doesnt have some kind of drama in her life, she gets bored. Well I am tired of it.
I went to pick up kids today, her car was not at daycare, I texted her with "im here" waited 15 minutes and called her.
I was going to ask if she was running late, she started to talk before I had a chance, she said she dropped kids off and ran to the bank before it closed, she said I left my phone in the car and was about to text you back, she said kids are inside, I said ok, she started to talk more, I said ok bye and hung up as I could still hear her talking. She didnt call or text that I am being "rude" like her usual response, dont know if she is getting the hint, I am not putting up with her sh!t anymore.
I took the kids to gym and then out to dinner and went to an arcade to play games. We get back to my "temporary place" give the kids a bath and they keep wanting to stay up and spend time with me. This kills me, they are tired and want to curl up with daddy, repeating over and over about staying with them, I do not talk about our sitch with them, they are 5 and 3. I had them call W earlier, she didnt answer, she is at work. She calls around 9, D talks a bit with her, and S said he doesnt want to talk to her, he does the same thing to me when he is with her. He is not happy about this, he is a smart little man.
I am very supportive of them talking to mommy telling them to say they love her and all that good stuff. I do not get on the phone at all, just upbeat and calm in the background with my kids.
I did go look at some nice apartments today, and I could not stop looking at the leasing agents @ss, I am a guy and noticed her checking me out as well. She asked about me and I told her a brief summary of why I was looking at apartments, she saw pics of my kids and was a little flirty. She said she lives there as well and said the pool gets pretty crazy on weekends. It was a good PMA boost and felt good. I need that kind of stuff going through this crap.
Peace..... I think the W is bipolar BTW she is a nut that I am done trying to crack!!!!
DSH,
Learn from my situation if you can.
There are two reasons to pull back and stay dark until your STBXW is practically begging for a second chance (not literally begging, but sincerely wants another one--if that happens):
1. It gives her time to see what it is like, time to feel the pain that comes with realizing that the attachment bond is really broken. Time to work on her stuff.
2. It gives you time to heal and become stronger. If you are healing but seeing the WAS often enough, and they are still picking at old wounds compulsively (or in my case, if they express doubts but not commitment and you venture into reconcillation territory too soon), you will eventually just want them to go away knowing that they believe you will always be there to pick on if you do not have a complete break.
In my particular case, the STBXW had doubts after 6 weeks of darkness. Doubts are not an expressed interest in doing the work it takes to piece a M back together. Doubts, in my case, were "does it feel like love?". Date 1, I think it might be. Date 3, there's something there. Now my ego was happy, and I started thinking we were dating like we had first met. Date 4, it just doesn't feel right. Date 5, and two days later the divorce was back on, and I was now a target for her compulsive and persistent reminders that "this is the right thing to do. I just don't love you", etc.
Even unanswered, emails and phone calls and actions were back on that path.
There is nothing to be gained by entertaining any notions of reconcillation unless the WAS firmly commits to trying to work on the M.
All it will do is drag out the drama, and in the end you will want them to go away.
So... back off, don't dwell on the past, make plans for YOUR future, and let things work themselves out, and maybe... just maybe... you and your WAS can figure things out.
And if not, there will be less drama, and you will be happier anyway.
TH,
I completely agree. I have only contacted her in regards to the kids. She then starts to babble about other stuff and complain, that is when I shorted it and eventually stop communicating with her. She texted me this am and asked me if I could drop kids off at daycare I said yes and that I want to take kids to church with me tomorrow. That is all I communicate any more. I will stop engaging in her rambling conversation about where I live and what ever else she complains about.
H all, after telling john28 all i could I decided to post myself, Not much new to report, will be getting a lease on a new place this weekend, moving next weekend before our first hearing.
W's dad is in town, the "enabler" who helped her with the separation, D and L financially, I have not contacted her nor has she, I went to a party with some friends to watch the UFC tonight. It was fun I finally got home after stopping at a few bars on the way home.
I eep hearing the oddest things, as I was at the party, I overheard a woman say her and her husband were married by a justice of the peace then had a wedding with friends and family? same as me and the W. I overhear little things that remind me of our situation, not where we are now but what we have done.
told the W today via text that I would like to take kids to church tomorrow, W responded with a sarcastic remark that she has not forgotten about church and they will be there tomorrow, I said sounds good. I will not ask her which service whe will go to, just the one we normally went to, and be happy, I want to see my kids. that is about it. My kids are my focus now and myself.
dsh,
Good, keep your focus on you and your kids. That is where it should be right now.
I did not make it to church, 2 of my dogs got in a fight, I broke them up and during that, my akita bit my wrist and put a nice puncture in my skin, hurts like hell. Cant do anything about it, if I go to a Dr, they will say we cant stitch it since its a dog bite. And yes all my dogs are current on their shots.
W texted me and asked if I can get the washer and dryer tomorrow? I guess her dad since he is in town is helping her with that too. Since I will have my own place now I need to have the washer and dryer, I was going to ffer her one or the other, that way we would each have to buy only the other. But if I can have them both, goody for me.
I did not respond to the text, and I am not going to. If she gets a new set of washer and dryer, she can put mine in the garage and I wll get them later.
I am pretty much just not contacting her what so ever. Its easy at times and hard at times. I know its not a contest but feeling like her life is moving on way ahead of mine, it sux. I have let go of the rope and she hasnt stopped going in the other direction, something that I just have to accept.
So the W has called twice, I have not answered either one and she is not leaving messages. I will just send her a text later telling her I was busy with things and stuff like that. I did upload a couple pics of the kids, and also one of my puncture from the damn dog bite this morning.
Maybe she saw the pic on FB and calling to ask what happened? dont need to speculate, either way she isnt leaving messages. It has been a short time in all this, but if she goes over a day of no contact with me she starts it up, either calls or texts. She hasnt seen me since thursday, and when I had the kids friday and dropped them off saturday at the daycare she was there but I did not hang out long enough to see her, gave the kids hugs and went on with my day.
Our first hearing is a week from thursday. Again I am not going to contest just going to speak with the judge about custody and and the child support. All the assets have pretty much been split up already, and in my state, if there are not any hickups I could be D 30 days after the first hearing.
so I finally texted the W, told her I will get the washer and dryer when my place is ready, she replied with I need somewhere to put mine> I said whoever delivers yours just ask them to set mine in the garage and I will pick them up. She replied O GOOD! which apartments I told her, she said those are really nice, she then asked if I am ready to get out of the house Im in: I respond ummmmm hell yes!!!!!! So we are communicating fine she seems to keep carrying on the conversation with questions, and then she just asked me to come to her house for dinner? I replied:
Thanks for the invite, enjoy time with your dad and the kids, I have to go meet with the girl at the complex to go over some stuff.
She replies he is already gone!! She knows he and I dont get along. But I was polite and told her Im sure the kids enjoyed their time with him. She then replies it sunday the office shouldnt be open.
I then said the leasing girl also lives there and said she wold come in today to go over stuff for me.
W: ok
Me: I will call the kids later, enjoy the rest of your day off!
W: I never have a day off.
So what do you guys think?
She keeps extending me invites which is nice, but I keep turning them down. Should I do this? she hasnt seen me in 3 days, longest time not seeing each other in the last 3 years? At some point I need to accept an invite or she will stop asking me.But I think i am doing the mysterious thing pretty good, not at her beck and call, not being clingy at all. I did notice she started calling me once her dad left, kinda funny how that works.
What type of relationship do you want to have with her while separated?
I want to be cordial and friendly, which I feel I am being, but I dont want to be her BFF with a D pending. We are both good parents, I feel the next invite she gives me I will accept. But I have also read that in order to start again eith to stop D or even to imporve things after D, you have to be friends first.
Pin, I am all over the place still. She gets me angry, but at times we still make each other laugh, I think we both miss that. That is why I crack jokes via text at times when she starts contacting me.
Jesus did I even answer your simple question? LOL
I'm struggling with this as well DSH. My W wants to be super friendly and gives me hugs everytime I see her. Tells me love you on the phone as we're hanging up. But she doesn't want to be with me. So confused. I'm thinking she's the "I don't want to be with you because of the person you are right now" kind of WAW.
dsh
I'm definitely no expert in how to re-engage with a WAS. I do think friendship (in conjunction with a healthy romantic spark) is a great thing in a relationship. I just don't know how well it works as the first step in reconciling. Maybe someone else can weigh in.
For me, it's just hard as hell. I've been getting along with my W better than any time in the last 13 years. We laugh, we talk, we tell dirty jokes, but I think the spark has died out.
I think that accepting the next invite might be wise. If anything, it might give you and her a chance to reconnect. Just don't have any expectations. Let her come to you.
John,
She has intitiated a few hugs, but no ILY or kisses. My W has laready filed, hell she has already bought a washer and dryer for her place now. 3 days ago she lights me up, I dont engage in it, I walk away, and today she is friendly.
In my case I feel my W is just wanting us to get along to be better parents and friends. Which I am ok with, but at the same time I am pretty dark, which seems to get her to reach out a bit more. I am not trying to read in to too much, but we can be friendly and good parents without talking and seeing each other frequently. She occupies her time with kids and work, Im sure it helps her stay focused on her, while at times when she calls and texts she still reaches out a bit.
Even if I got more mixed signals from her, she knows it will just confuse the situation even more, she still has feelings for me and has stated she will not let herself become vulnerable to me(when we were still in the same house) which tells me she is pretty set in her ways, whether she has second thoughts or not she will follow through with the D. Very bull headed and as Pin and I have discussed in the past, she almost acts like she is triyng to prove to me herself and everyone else that she can do this on her own.
John,
She has intitiated a few hugs, but no ILY or kisses. My W has laready filed, hell she has already bought a washer and dryer for her place now. 3 days ago she lights me up, I dont engage in it, I walk away, and today she is friendly.
In my case I feel my W is just wanting us to get along to be better parents and friends. Which I am ok with, but at the same time I am pretty dark, which seems to get her to reach out a bit more. I am not trying to read in to too much, but we can be friendly and good parents without talking and seeing each other frequently. She occupies her time with kids and work, Im sure it helps her stay focused on her, while at times when she calls and texts she still reaches out a bit.
Even if I got more mixed signals from her, she knows it will just confuse the situation even more, she still has feelings for me and has stated she will not let herself become vulnerable to me(when we were still in the same house) which tells me she is pretty set in her ways, whether she has second thoughts or not she will follow through with the D. Very bull headed and as Pin and I have discussed in the past, she almost acts like she is triyng to prove to me herself and everyone else that she can do this on her own.
This shouldn't surprise you. Everyone wants to feel strong and independent.
Don't put too much weight into everything she said while leaving; a lot of it is what comic fans call retcon.
Hi all:
So I obviously didnt go to W's house for dinner. Ended up just going to a movie with a buddy tonight saw the other guys, frggin hilarious BTW. W started texting me with guy questions: fixing her thermostat, doing this and that, I tried to help her through text. Then I finally typed to her, you have the web and google your questions? after the movie, I sent her a text asking if S was still awake?
W: Nope... they have both been in a bed for a while. I will have them call you when they get up?
Me: OK
W: you all setup at your apt?
Me: Not quite its harder getting an apartment then it is renting a house.
W: Why?
W: dont they follow the same guidelines?
ME:Some yes some no, I was willing to pay a few extra months up front with a house, with the apartment a computer decides if you are a good tenant prospect.
W:O
W: have you looked in here for a place? I looked at few others that were a bit smaller.
Me: I have to be more centrally located and I dont want to take care of a house right now.
W: Just a suggestion.....your suggestion
Me: Mine?
W: Its ok ..... I will talk to you tomorrow
Me: Ok
I dont know where she was going with this, other than going back to my "suggestion" that we handle this as a S and put D on hold. I feel she wants me to live closer to her, but I need to be firm and have my space as well. We had pleasant conversation today, no tension. I also had the letting them go speech with a buddy who has been on and off with his GF. Again feels good to share the wisdom learned from these boards.
How did I handle it? thoughts?
dsh,
You are doing good, but maybe you should leave her to wonder about a few of the details. She just does not need to know too much about what decisions you are making and why.
It is good that there is a lot less tension, and you should try to keep it within your boundaries. I would just make sure that she does not cross them.
It is great that you are passing on what you are learning here. I find it such a great place with wonderful people to help.
You are doing great!!!
LSG,
I give details when I feel they should be given. Again I deal with the fact i have lied about little stuff, I think I am keeping the mystery there, and giving in to some trust issues while being firm for myself. I feel I am doing good with all of this, whether she takes notice or not I feel good about it.
W texted me this morning and asked if I could drop off the lawn mower. I told her I would, and then said you need to get the rest of your stuff. I originally told her that she could keep the dryer and I would take the washer so we each only had to buy the other. She decided to buy new w and d and says now she has no money. I did not say anything to that. Then she said for me to look at the positive, that I dont have to buy anything. So I laughed a bit and said good point.
She laso called me to tell me the kids turtle died. She said the kids were crying about it, and that she was going to borrow a shovel from the neighbor and have a little ceremony after the kids are out of school. She asked if i was going to the gym with the kids, I told her I would and then told her I dont know how good my workout will be since the dog bite. She asked what happened, I told her and she proceeded to act like a mom. Dr. questions, atibiotics stuff like that.
It was another pleasant conversation, I guess her daddy didnt buy the washer and dryer for her, so she spent the last of her money on those i guess. She hasnt been in her place for 2 weeks yet, so the first round of bills have not even come in yet and she is already broke? she is off today except for one apt. she has at 5 which will pay her 25 bucks.
It will be interesting how this plays out for her in the long run.
So much for keeping things pleasant. As I am leaving a meeting, she sends a text that said: why do you keep changing your mind without giving me any warnings. I did not respond, I waited until I got in my car and called.
She started to give me crap about the fact I keep asking her to get the rest of her stuff and that I promised to move it all for her. I said negative, I told you I would move what I could a week ago, and then I ran out of room in the uhaul and that you would need to get the rest of it. She then started to go into the fact I have been going out and stuff, and asked if I was drinking beer again? I said yes, I told her as much as you want to believe I am an alcoholic, 2 doctors and a therapist said I am not. I told her if i want to drink a few beers out with friends it is my choice. I then said W we are getting a divorce, I do not need to check in with you and get your approval on everything I do.
She then started to say I do not respect her in the fact that she says I say I will do something and not finish. This is where she tries to turn things around and lay guilt. I said you have had plenty of time to get your stuff, I went out of my way to help and could not get everything. I then went in to her registering our S and renting a house without talking to me about it, I said that is very disrespectful and this conversation is over. She then said you get defensive when you lie, I said I am tired of your crap, and I will not be bullied.
I ended the conversation and said I will meet you at X and get the kids, she started to retract and speak softly and said bye.
I was 20 mins late getting the kids and she started lighting me up again via text as I was pulling into X. I did not give her the time of day nor did I respond to her bs texts. I grabbed the kids hugging them and tickling them shut her car door and got in my truck.
After about 2 hours I dropped the kids at daycare and sent her a text that said: kids are at daycare. She then sends a text thank you, enjoy your evening. I returned a U 2.
10 mins later she calls, I answer and she says hi, I say the same and she apologized to me for snapping at me, I accepted her apology and we made small talk for a few more minutes. She said our S is really having a tough time with this, and I said I need to see the kids more often and that I wll spend some time with them tomorrow. I had another call coming in and told W I have to take this call I will talk to you tomorrow. SHe said ok.
What is going on with this woman?
She invites me to dinner 2 times
she mentions me renting a house in the same neighborhood she moved to.
She actually apologized for the first time in a long time
She says she still cares about me and wants me to safe
When I go dark for more than a day she starts contacting me
We have a good pleasant day of conversation then she turns into I am woman hear me roar!!!!
I feel like my W is turning into my mother!!!! Is she trying to still control and mainpulate me while we are near the big D? Sometimes I feel she hasnt totally let go of me, as my C said she will start to miss the adult interaction with me after a while, but at the same time as i have said before i will not be my XW BFF.
Any input? any of you ladies out there who might know what the hell I am dealing with here?
She started to give me crap about the fact I keep asking her to get the rest of her stuff and that I promised to move it all for her. I said negative, I told you I would move what I could a week ago, and then I ran out of room in the uhaul and that you would need to get the rest of it.
Too much yabbering. "I didn't promise to move it all, and even if I had, I can change my mind too" <wink at her>
She then sends a text thank you, enjoy your evening. I returned a U 2.
Go dimm. Don't respond if there are no questions to somebody who is arguing with you and starting fights. Don't reward bad behavior. In fact, laugh about it unless it is something where you need to draw a line in the sand (boundary).
When I go dark for more than a day she starts contacting me
We have a good pleasant day of conversation then she turns into I am woman hear me roar!!!!
This is rhetorical, right? Give her more space, and be fun when you do the kid exchanges. If she gets pushy or nasty, do you best Cary Grant and point out that it's no way to act. Humor helps.
Thanks TH,
I talked to the kids, and they kept saying they want to stay with daddy. I hung up with D, then the W sent a text saying she still wanted to talk to me. I told her via text that i am working on a proposal and that she needs to text me if its important I am too busy.
She is texting me about how things are going with some of the stuff I am working on, I am just being friendly, not giving too much info into what I am working on. I am playing with it, being funny and gay, not man gay like Robx likes to put it just goofy gay.
LOL!
.... and you know the difference because..... ;-)
HAHA Rob,
You are like another corporal I worked with, we called nim sneaky, if I were on a call, he would show up as backup and I wouldnt even know he was standing behind me as i talked with the complainant. YOu just sneak in to a thread and ROBEXCORISM!!!!!!!
I just ended her endless textorama, she started to ask about a BBQ my brother had, that I did not mention to her. It was after receiving papers, after we S why the f*ck would I tell her about it?
Either way I just said I have to get back to this proposal, she replied thanks for shoving me off? jesus the level of maturity at times i want to put her back in her crib with a bobba!!!
Can someone say she is getting a little reality here?
oh come now, I'm not that bad,
I have mellowed a bit in my 30's and haven't played any tricks on my co-workers in quite a while plus I stopped sabotaging bag lunches a long time ago.
...but if you ever get a chance,
the liquid dish soap in somebody's sandwich prank is wicked... but you didn't hear that from me ;-)
Either way I just said I have to get back to this proposal, she replied thanks for shoving me off? jesus the level of maturity at times i want to put her back in her crib with a bobba!!!
Bet she would really get steamed if you said it like this, "Sorry Sweetcheeks, I've gotta get back this proposal I'm working on. Talk to you later".
Thought about something like that as well, TH what the hell does she expect, that I will just be her BFF I guess, she had no interest in this kind of conversation and this amount of contact when we were separated in the same house, and now she gets sad when I get back to what i am doing.... manipulation at its best. But I am trying to be there to a degree but when I feel I am being too "available" I go the other way.
She is used to this kind of attention and thrives for drama, so when the drama kicks in the attention from me goes bye bye.
that is classic, try sunblcok in someones lubricant, did that to a roommate after high school it was not nice to do, but the screams and the yelling are unforgetable!!!!!!!!!! not a gay thng rob, him and his GF were the ones screaming, I was downstairs laughing my ars off!!!!
TH what the hell does she expect, that I will just be her BFF
Yep. Mine is trying that too. BFF ... until she finds somebody else, I expect. I think it is more than that, but that's part of it. Keep you from moving on before she's ready (and she might not even be fully concious of it).
I got a free cheese steak sandwhich because after a few phone calls and emails, I answered and said "look Sunshine, we're not going to be buddies".
I like that TH, sunshine. She wanted me out of where i am at, I need to be anyway, now that I am getting my own place i think she is freaking out a bit. It is a little different with kids, now that S is having a hard time with this, she is having to deal with him more often. It kills me that he is going through this, and I want to be there for him, but she has to deal with him during this. I hope she is handling it the right way.
I think with the first hearing in just over a week, maybe the whole realization of what you put into overdrive is freaking her out a bit. the way she is acting seems that way, but who knows other than her. I am just going to keep doing what I am doing, I think what got under her skin was the fact I kept telling the kids(we were on speaker) that when daddy gets his new place we will play games and go swimming in the new pool. I am getting a nice new apartment and I think it is freaking her out now. Whether its true or not, It makes me feel better that the tables have turned a bit. She seems to be the one obsessing now, she is the one who is initiating, when she gets hostile I either end it, or calmly tell her this is not going to go theat way.
I am still going down MY path, I will not fight her on the D, which I think she kind of expected, but I realized with the help of everyone here, whats the point? I cant change her mid, by being needy and trying to convince her she is making a mistake? she needs time to really understand what gear she put this car in, at some point there will be no reverse.
Hi All,
Feelong pretty good today, signed a contract yesterday ynder my new company, and working with an investor to take over another project which will keep me busy for the next few years. I did feel I lead yesterday, with converations and with the fact i was not letting the W bully me. I feel there was some catnip there, it seemed to make her want to contact me more, and when I told her I had to stop she got upset, and I joked with her about it.
She is bored and lonely I think, I will be going more dim in the next week until our hearing. I will try and see my kids as much as possible as well this week, I need to move again, wed and thurs so that will be interesting with everything I have going on.
She is bored and lonely I think, I will be going more dim in the next week until our hearing. I will try and see my kids as much as possible as well this week, I need to move again, wed and thurs so that will be interesting with everything I have going on.
Remember to think "Cary Grant". You can let go, be firm when you need to be, and be charming when it's appropriate, and you can even be witty and funny when it's called for
Yes TH, like I said, our interaction yesterday was cordial, then she got nasty I stood firm, then she apologized and started initiating conversation again I was fun and had to end it, she got pissy again and I was funny with it. All in all I think I did good yesterday.
At the same time I believe even if she wanted to slow the D process down her pride would get in the way. I have heard many times "pride before a fall". So I am not holding my breath on that one, I will keep going "as if" and leave it at that. Like I have read many times, when they are set free, its not all its cracked up to be......
At the same time I believe even if she wanted to slow the D process down her pride would get in the way.
Mind reading. I bet kitty would rub up against you leg if she wanted to be petted
If not, no reason not to have a good life.
Like I have read many times, when they are set free, its not all its cracked up to be......
Set yourself free..., and enjoy it
You are still worried about her feelings and still trying to read them like your feelings are going to tell you what she is feeling--that is the opposite of intuition.
Gotta stop the mind reading, Met the W to let her take the kids back, again they both wanted to go with daddy but this is normal. W stood there like she still wanted to talk to me or something, but i was focused on the kids and kept saying I had to go, I have a C appt at 8. Anyway as I walked to my truck W just stood there and watched me drive away. BLAH BLAH BLAH She jsut got done tanning and ahd a cute outfit on, didnt say squat about it, kept the PMA up and was giddy with the kids.
She did call earlier and asked if she could borrow my truck, I asked what for, she said she bought a horse and needed to go pick it up. She used to buy and train then sell horses with a GF of hers and said she made decent money at it b4 so she thought she would try it again. I gave her props for this was upbeat, and told her no on the truck. tee hee, told her I was using it thursday. he didnt really make that much money at it and it was very time consuming, she doesnt have the time now but i guess she thinks she does.
She tells me she spent the last of her money on a washer and dryer then buys a horse? how about a budget? well that is her problem not mine, and if she asks for money I will tell her to call daddy. He is her enabler not me. She was very upbeat today, I had no reason to contact her today and still really dont have areason to going forward unless it has to do with the kids. So I will keep that mindset and press on.
Good C session. C asked me about the pending D. I said what do you want to know. He said how do you feel about it? I said right now today I accept it, it is what it is. I told him that there is no point in trying to fight it anymore. He asked me if I still wanted to be with her? I said I dont know. I told him that being on my own has been liberating, do i think about her and my family yes, but at the same time I have been more focused on me and what I need to work on.
I told him even if she came to me tomorrow about reconciling, she isnt ready, she hasnt worked on herself one bit. It would go back to everything being my fault and that wont work. My S told me today he wanted me back at home. I again told him Mommy and Daddy are not getting along and that we will have separate houses for a while. He said Mommy wants us to be together. I said again we are not getting along. He is 5 and even he can manipulate, so I just changed the subject about swimming and playing at daddy's new place.
And I had to go to the Dr and get 2 antibiotic shots because of the damn dog bight, it started to get infected and those friggin shots hurt like hell. Not the needle but the burning and muscle aching feeling with the medicine. I told the nurse to leave the room afterthe shots, she said why, I said I want to punch in the face thats why. I was joking of course but I wanted to punch something.
Oh what a year.......
careful there James Toney,
you may try to punch but she might shoot for your legs, get you on your back and go for a choke ;-)
That was a good fight, teehee Rob WTF was that fat f@ck thinking there? She was kinda big for a nurse, here in TX nurses are either massive or hot as hell, there is no in between, reminds me of married with children episodes, whether hot or not.....
give him respect for trying,
I pretty much knew the result before the fight even began,
I'm sure James has decent punching power,
but he's a bigger guy and he moves like a big guy and without the benefit of years of MMA/wrestling training/experience,
I just knew that Randy would bring him down to the ground,
Silva's a better striker than Toney could ever hope to be but Sonnen wrestled Silva to the ground - that's how you neutralize a striker with decent stand up skills, you stop him from standing up ;-)
Hope you're feeling better,
remember to maintain that great positive attitude for you, your kids and for your wife, not to get her back or to convince her otherwise but to show everyone that life is great, wasting it is a dumb thing to do.
Get some rest and stop playing dog catcher ;-)
HAHA, I know it has been rough with the dogs. I need to get into my own place in 2 days, cant come quick enough. I am staying positive and showing it. As I said I am accepting what is here today. What is front of me good and bad. That is the beginning we will see what the future holds for me.
W texted me this AM and asked what time I was going to the gym? she knows what time but I just replied the usual, whats up? she wrote that she had a few appts. and trying to figure out what to do with the kids. I told her I would take them for about an hour but I have moving to do, the rest she would have to figure out. She said ok. I want to see my kids, but I have to be back to not being her on call babysitter, I would have taken them to the gym anyway so basically I did not fall in to her trying to get me to work with her schedule, she still needs to figurethis out on her own.
want to see my kids, but I have to be back to not being her on call babysitter,
Do you guys have a calendar type schedule yet? You can't be her babysitter. Letting her go means letter her solve those kind of things too. I can understand if you are delaying the calendar type schedule until after the move, but get on one of those asap.
TH,
I am trying to, but again with all the crap she has dished out about my living sitch I have decided to wait until I am in my own place(which will be tomorrow) to get the kids with me more often. I think the way I handled it was the best. I basically stated I would take them like I normally do, and that I have others things to do and cannot accomadate her schedule when she needs it. She didnt think about the fact that when she books an appt. she makes around 30 dollars for that hour, but she has to pay around 12 for the kids to be watched. She has to deal with this, not me.
Feeling a little low today, I have totake one of my akitas to the vet at 4 to put her down. She has had inoperable bone cancer for the last 8 months and its just killing me to see her go through this pain. She is 8 years old and a total b!tch but my kids will be upset.
Really no contact from W today which is fine, she did send a text asking ig I was putting the dog down, I simply replied yes. No reply.
I am really sorry about your dog. You are very brave and loving to help your dog not be in pain anymore.
Thanks CG, W sent a text asking if we should tell the kids? I sent one back telling her not right now, when they stay with me I will have a talk with them about the dog. There turtle died last week and with everything else going on this will just be too much for them to handle(last sentence i did not text) she just sent another text, U going to be ok today? I said yes, thank you. then she sends of you need a shoulder to cry on, im here. I said I appreciate it, I will be fine.
dsh, you're doing so well. I know it's a tough thing to do, even when you know your pup was hurting.
Keep that chin up
Thanks Pin, I think by W not responding she probably or maybe not upset I didnt take her offer, As I see it would have been needy of me to do so. Cant seem needy right now, big boy boxers are on!!!!
Don't mind read her...
You've got the boxers on. Believe me. Reading your last couple of days, I see you doing really well.
dsh...
I'm sorry. I had to put my cat down at the beginning of the month. Probably the hardest thing I have ever done. In a way, worse than the D, really. She was totally innocent, and had no second chance coming. Still hurts to think about it.
The new kittens I got last weekend are doing their best to get into my heart, though.
Thanks Jeff,
It was tough, I started to get teary but I kept it in. W offered a shoulder, pooey told her I will be fine. Kept the kids for a while, W was running late so I took them to McD's and let them have fun. W texted me she was at the gym told her we were still at McD's. SHe said I will come there. She showed up and sat across from me. She was more upbeat than me, obviously I had just put my oldest pet down 3 hours earlier so the PMA and Cary Grant attitude was absent. She could tell I was not very talkative. SHe asked me if I broke down I said nope. She then asked if i was with her during the procedure I said yes, and you didnt lose it, nope.
I was a bit cold D fell asleep in my lap at McD's when I wasnt looking the W took a pic of her asleep in my lap and texted it to me. I smiled and said thank you. We all walked out and S kept saying he wanted to go home with daddy, I told him he could spend the night with daddy this weekend. I strapped sleeping D in and then S. S I love you daddy and gave me a big hug. I told W Cya, and walked over to my truck and left.
Tough day today, wasnt as cheery in front of W, if I tried to be i think it would have come off too fake, she knows how I feel about the dogs and it would have looked funny. She did get on my FB page from her phone while we were at McD's and I had a funny quote on there "Gator needs his GAT". she asked who Gator was I just started to laugh and said you wouldnt get it. She then asked some more and I simply said its a quote from a movie. Then she left it alone.
Pretty low feeling today, it sux.
Sorry about your dog, dsh. I had a siberian husky with cancer and had to put him down too. I kept hoping we could make it to his 10th birthday, but he was in terrible shape. There comes a time when there just isn't any other choice. It is so sad.
Of course you were not cheery! Don't worry about it! Beside, you are right, faking is the last thing you want to do in any case. Some days real life take precedence.
I took myself to IHOP for breakfast after, and had all the cholesterol they could fit on a plate. Actually, I think it took two plates. Took the day off work, went golfing with S20. It was good distraction.
Thanks Lotus and Jeff,
Spending time with my kids definately took the itch off a bit. I am moving into my own place tomorrow, which will be good for me and the kids. Our first hearing is a week from tomorrow, so we will keep preparing for that "special" day. Again nothing seems to be phasing the W, she contacts me less on days where she seems busy with work, and when she is just with the kids or on weekends she seems to be reaching more. BZut I need a 2x4 when I start thinking like that, D is pending and it is what it is.
Got a text this am from W asking if the kids insurance is in place yet, like I said her memory lately sux, she knew it wasnt yet because I had to pay 300 bucks to go to get those damn shots for the dog bite. In any case I told her I was still waiting for approval from Cigna. I told her this about the approval, then asked if kidsor ok? she simply replied ""yeah". I will not reply to that, she answered my question, time to start moving peeps!!!! I might be off for a few days until my internet is hooked up at the new place, I will update and check on John(I know) when I get a chance, keep fighting the fight!!!
Got moved, missing my dog, will be on and off until they get my internet hooked up, but I could see if a neighbor has unsecure wireless and tag along...... W texted me asking if i knew where something was, didnt respond. Then she called about an hour later, didnt answer no VM left so I will leave it at that. She knows I am moving and right now I dont really care to talk to her or converse with her over texr, go live you fantasy life baby!!!!
Hi All,
In my new place, what a friggin day!!!! As I said before W texted me, called me I did not reply. I finally sent her a text around bedtime to talk to the kids. She replied they were at daycare still, I said ok. Her phone rang and it was my D3 on the phone, she was soooooooooo cute talking with me, I told her that I got her and S5 a new game for their Wi, and she was so excited. THey were about to leave and W got on the phone, sounded chipper and said S5 does not want to get on the phone. I said its ok, I said I will pick S up at school tomorrow and then get D. Asked where D will be she said daycare.
I then asked where do I need to bring them on Saturday. She started to go in to her schedule of her appts, and then asked if i was going to the gym, I said yes and that I would take them with me and meet her mid day. I got off the phone first with a bye and look so forward to seeing my trolls tomorrow.
I have been going more dark, and will keep doing so. I have read some of the feedback on John28 thread, I think my W is just one that wants out of M, just tired of it, I need to keep that thinking going forward and it will help me move on quicker as well as myself moving on quicker. I feel she has reached out more for friendship than her feelings missing me. To all the people that have kept up with my sitch, do you agree?
Dsh,
grats on getting settled in. Your kids will have fun since it'll be "new." Kids always like that stuff.
Low expectations coupled with optimism about the future are the key. Take care of yourself, and the rest will fall in place.
I think my W is just one that wants out of M, just tired of it,
Well, as far as actions so far... seperations and preparing for divorce pretty much say just that. Not trying to mind read here however.
I need to keep that thinking going forward
Why? That too is an expectation. Why not remain open, take care of business, take care of your kids, and take care of yourself, and brush up on your charm and flirting skills ?
Right now you are headed for divorce. But you don't know about the future.
TH
Part of it is keeping that mindset helps me let go and detach further. It helps me keep expectations low. Do I still have hope? a little. W and I have interacted less and less lately, which is a good thing. I will enjoy my time with my trolls tonight, and keep being dark with the W. I still have ups and downs, I am living around a bunch of single moms who lok at me like man cake!! its flattering but the furthest thing from my mind right now is dating or hooking up to make things more confusing. Flirting and getting to know new people is healthy for me but that is all i am doing at this point.
Part of it is keeping that mindset helps me let go and detach further.
Helps you not be clingy, I expect.
Detaching means you are completely open, however. I know what you mean. Been there.
I am waiting for your inner Cary Grant to emerge
Hi All,
In my new place, what a friggin day!!!! As I said before W texted me, called me I did not reply. I finally sent her a text around bedtime to talk to the kids. She replied they were at daycare still, I said ok. Her phone rang and it was my D3 on the phone, she was soooooooooo cute talking with me, I told her that I got her and S5 a new game for their Wi, and she was so excited. THey were about to leave and W got on the phone, sounded chipper and said S5 does not want to get on the phone. I said its ok, I said I will pick S up at school tomorrow and then get D. Asked where D will be she said daycare.
I then asked where do I need to bring them on Saturday. She started to go in to her schedule of her appts, and then asked if i was going to the gym, I said yes and that I would take them with me and meet her mid day. I got off the phone first with a bye and look so forward to seeing my trolls tomorrow.
I have been going more dark, and will keep doing so. I have read some of the feedback on John28 thread, I think my W is just one that wants out of M, just tired of it, I need to keep that thinking going forward and it will help me move on quicker as well as myself moving on quicker. I feel she has reached out more for friendship than her feelings missing me. To all the people that have kept up with my sitch, do you agree?
that's awesome news bro,
glad you got the new place,
I'm sure there is a ton of work still to do but there's nothing like having your own place to call home to make this situation better for you & your kids.
Hi all,
Kids and I have had a blast so far, they are both on the couch eating popcorn and watching star wars. We went to the gym( can you guys tell im a gym nut yet?) went for a cone from sonic, the nthe park, took the dogs for a walk and ate dinner. W left me a message earlier kinda long about this and that, mainly kid related but she seemed to be rambling on. I did not call her back sent her a text that i got her message.
Tonight she sent another text asking the same thing from yesterday, asking if i knew where her memory card was for her camera, she knows I have no clue, so I just replied to her, no idea. That was it. I do not ask what she is doing, but she always makes an effort to tell me what she is doing whether by message or text. I do not really respond one way or the other. I am not a pr!ck just showing really no interest in what she is doing. I have read through many Vets threads and noticed that if you show them you are not going to be their "best friend" the person that is always there to bounce stuff off of, to share stuff with, sometimes that is the best medicine. I think it was PDT who said his W realized she was losing her best friend and it scared the crap out of her. Does my W have other friends? yes but not a best friend, her friends have so many issues they are in and out of her life like, well I dont know what to compare it to.
But over the last eight years, I have been her stable friend, partner and support system. She needs to know what it is like without that there. She did once before, although there was OM the last time, and I have to admit she didnt like the fact that after she walked, there were a lot of OW on my side. I was not the one to stray, but after I filed, and the "ladies" came out I did not stop them
.
Kids are in bed, it was a tough night when it came to bed time. My kids just wanted to hold me, and kept saying daddy hold me, it made me cry a bit, not to the point they were concerned, but was really tough. Thye kept saying they loved me, all night at times where they were watching a cartoon and my D said , daddy I love you. S says he doesnt want to go back to mommys, I took a lot of pics of the kids tonight and sent them to FB, W still checks my FB I know this bc she constantly asks about my random posts. W didnt call tonight to talk to the kids, not really bothering me, she has them most the time right now, so its not a big deal. My kids are so confused right now, it really sucks for them. Bot I was upbeat for them we had a great time and they enjoyed their time with me, I cant complain.
Im about to hit the sheets, and I thought of something tonight. About A week before the bomb, our Mastiff who is a four year old female was thought to have fungal pnemonia, could be fatal, but the W cried and laid with her on the floor back then. Since then she has been recovering and our vet said its just a bacterial infection fo the lungs. The mastiff is god now, but when separated she had the chance to take the mastiff with her, she said she didnt want to separate the dogs. Here we are, I had to put one down 3 days ago, and the mastiff and our S's akita are with me.
She could have taken the mastiff, Akitas are very dominant and dont need a sidekick, I told the W take her with you, she said her landlord does not allow dogs. @ things came to mind, she didnt want the extra weight? Could my W not know how to love? I question this a lot. SHe is not a bad mother, but she seems to be disconected with our kids. She thinks being someone who puts them to bed, feeds them and organizes their daily grind is a loving parent.... but that isnt it. I hold them, tend to them and put their needs above mine, that is where we are different.
That is the difference, when she strayed, I put my kds first, was I hurt? yes. Did I protect them? yes. In doing so did I piss the W off to no end? yes but i didnt care about her feelings, she chose her path and it did not seem to bother her what she was doing to the kids. So I shielded the kids from her actions.
This go round she seems to be "together". But she has no clue how hard it is. She is going on 2 weeks of this, taking care of the kids, and working 60 hours a week. I did it for 6 months, it wasnt easy but I did it.
I dont think my W knows how to love someone, maybe its her childhood, maybe its her lack of love from her family off and on for so many years. She has issues she either deals with or they will haunt her for the rest of her life.....
That's sad, dsh. But you may be right. I hope for the kids' sake that it isn't true. But it could be true.
It sounds to me like it could be a difference in LL?
our Mastiff who is a four year old female was thought to have fungal pnemonia, could be fatal, but the W cried and laid with her on the floor back then.
She loves this dog. Don't fool yourself. Your wife is also in pain emotionally.
I hear what you are saying. It's natural to ask yourself these questions too. Can she be a good wife and mother? Is she just immature (some people take immaturity to the grave), or is she just very focused on the present (where she feels no joy) and the past (where there is anger, sadness and regret)?
You say you put your kids/dogs needs before your own. You have to take care of your neeeds to be able to take care of their needs (like that oxygen mask coming down in an emergency on an aircraft--you put yours on first, and then help those around you, or you will be no help to anybody).
I think you are just thinking ahead, planning for things that may happen, trying to anticipate things in the immediate future, and that's good, but if your wife is not doing that, then all talk about the consequences of divorce and so on is going to be wasted breath.
I think you are begining to detach, DSH. The next step will take you beyond judgement to empathy when you are ready.
Your wife may not be making realistic future-looking plans (and I don't know if she ever did), and if that's the case..., then her focus must be on the present, the past or both.
It doesn't mean she can't love, and that she doesn't want to be loved. If her focus is not primarily future-oriented, then it is that she didn't feel loved
The Time Paradox
PS. So that it doesn't sound like something on the MLC forum.
I am sure you have your problems, she has hers (your kids and dogs have theirs). You dogs, for example, are very present oriented, and they live on event time. My dogs are in a hyper mood because it's past "walk time" (happens around sunrise after "Dad" has his cup of coffee). I love my dogs, but they are not good about planning things. Not one bit.
You can let go with compassion. You loved the dog you put down, but you thought it was "the right thing to do" under the circumstances. That is a good way to think about things: what is the right thing to do?
You have no choice at this point but to let go, but you can choose to do it with compassion. All it takes is a little empathy.
This is a time for both of you to grow. She is an adult, and she now has the opportunity to do just that just like you do. Be open minded about it. You can change, she can change, and your kids and dogs can change.
This doesn't mean you will be reunited. I can't accurately predict the future.
Lotus, Ris and Th.
Lotus, I agree hope its not true.
Ris, During our first S, I was told to read up on the LL's the issue is I feel my W's LL is constant attention, which exhausts me. When I gave her that, it was draining and it did not feel "healthy" for me. Maybe she needs someone to be all about her, usually that is the case with most R's in the honeymoon stage, but not for the long haul.
TH, you are very wise in your advice. Actually the help here is unbelievable. I do feel she has not looked, or wont look at the long term affects of her decisions. But that is something I cannot fix or show her the "light" on. I almost feel I am being Db'd by her. I read one of Coach's or PDT threads about this very thing. In a way the WAS starts the tactics, not really knowing about what we learn here, to move on.
It appears she does everything she can to stay as busy as possible, taking on more and more, which she has doe in the past during our M and gets to a point of crashing from it. It is her way I believe of vealing with what is going on in life. Sometimes when I see her she looks like she is so tired and drained she looks near death. I hope for my kid's sake she does not get to the point that she neglects them. When my kids are with me they are and feel I am "there". The w has so much going on I dont think they get her "full" attention. But again I am not with them or her so I dont know this to be true. Just a feeling I get from the way they are with me. Time to take the kids and dogs for a walk around the lake. Going to use the rest of the weekend to spend time with my Brother and also get more done around the new crib.
I do feel she has not looked, or wont look at the long term affects of her decisions.
Communications 101: you
think that she hasn't looked at the long-term consequences.
You do not feel this. You feel things, but this is not an emotion. This is a judgement.
There's something for you to work on, and it's very
present-oriented: What does DSH feel?
List of Emotions This may be a very good judgement. You know better than me.
But what does that tell you?
I feel my W's LL is constant attention, which exhausts me. When I gave her that, it was draining and it did not feel "healthy" for me.
Just a thought here, but what if it was
constant because she was always trying to get something from you that she wasn't getting? Again, I don't know. But is it possible that while you were looking forward, making plans for the future, and so on... that she just wanted you to let her know that she was
"special" ?
I don't think you would have come here if deep-down you didn't believe there was something very special about your wife. How did you show her that?
More importantly: can you see it in her in your interactions now? If you can see it, then you can say it ... not because you want anything from her, but just because you see it.
Good points TH, I do know that I did not make her feel special. I am a good provider, father and bascially have my sh!t together somewhat, but that does not mean I did everything a good husband should do. But again I cannot, in the present situation make her feel special now. It would be looked at as pursueing which cannot be done at this point. Maybe this was the breaking point and there is no looing back now. The only way I can make her feel special is "if" she ever starts coming back around.
I cannot, in the present situation make her feel special now.
Why not?
would be looked at as pursueing
I am not asking your to pursue her. If she wants a divorce, then I can't see why you would want to be married to somebody who wants to divorce you.
But if she does something nice or thoughtful, or if you see something good in her actions, why can't you tell her how "magical" that is? I see magical things in my STBXW sometimes, so .... ?
You don't have to argue with her decission to leave the M to be observant and mindful.
See if you can shift your focus a little more toward the present moment when you are with her because I think you are a very pragmatic, forward-looking guy.
again good points. When I have the chance I just need to remember these things.
Hey dsh,
I hope things are going well. Glad you had a great time with your kids! I know it's tough cause I don't get to see my S that often as well.However we took a minni vac. to the Outer Banks we had a blast!
I could tell at times by what he said that he wished it was a Family Vac. We'll still made the best of it for us.
Talk to ya later Hope
The reason I mentioned LL is because you said:
SHe is not a bad mother, but she seems to be disconected with our kids. She thinks being someone who puts them to bed, feeds them and organizes their daily grind is a loving parent....
That to me sounds like acts of service, which she feels that they need.
True, it is an act of service. W and I exchanged some pleasant texts this am.
W: how was your time with the kiddos?
Me: It was great! took long walks with the dogs, they met other kids in the area. Took them to the pool S is a charmer thats for sure.
W: LOL! U really got a Wii?
Me: yup
W: How much was it ?
Me: 200
W: u have a 2br looks kinda big!(she must have looked on my FB page this am, I posted a lot of pics)
Me:its a 3br
W: WOW whats the SF?
Me:1500 I might have to go to Houston next weekend FYI
Me: I am going to the gym closer to my new place, your last appt is at 11?
W:Yeah I will be done by noon unless he is late, what is your rent?
Me: 1290
W: Whats in Houston?
Me: A new client to build for they want to fly me down will let you know. I will meet you around 1240 so if you want to go tan you should have time.
W: I can do that
Me:Also kids asked about the (dog) I had to put down, told them they are staying with a friend for now. Didt want to break the news to them.
W: Ok
ok so I go to the gym and about 1230 on my way to kid exchange, she texts me and says I need 30, I said cant do it I have to be somewhere. She then calls and asks where I am. I told her pretty close, she said why dont you take them to your place and I will come pick them up. I said I had to be somewhere. This is where she turned a little sour. Maybe she wanted to see the new place, dont know just kinda keeping the mystery and space there.
Met up with her and was very PMA!!! She was happy to see the kids, we exchanged a few words about church and I hugged and kissed the kids and went back to my truck.
About 15 mins later she sends a text asking me what my cable bill costs, and what she should expect to pay for hers? I didnt respond, c'mon now she used to pay bills she can call the cable company and figure it out. So I was nice, somewhat helpful giving her time to do something for herself, her schedule didnt allow it, not my fault, part of life.
I wish she'd do something nice for you or compliment you so that you could respond with wit and charm
I guess you're gonna have to look for a question that gives you an opportunity to have fun or be funny.
Like pookie's wife asking how the dogs are, and him responding they each reading a part from King Lear right now
I know you both are .. . err raw..., but this conversation is very robotic sounding.
I wish she'd do something nice for you or compliment you so that you could respond with wit and charm
I guess you're gonna have to look for a question that gives you an opportunity to have fun or be funny.
Like pookie's wife asking how the dogs are, and him responding they each reading a part from King Lear right now
I know you both are .. . err raw..., but this conversation is very robotic sounding.
Wit is charm for sure. I'm sitting in a riverside bar right now flirting with two women who are desperate for attention. (I wish HIH was here)
I will leave alone as I am a gent. Just having fun.
Yes robotic TH, Pookie I should be joining you I had to wait around for 5 hours for the direct tv guy, that is why i have been on here so much
I sent her a friendly email saying that our stuff needs to be out of the house no later than tuesday. She has been making several trips with her car, so I wrote to her that if she packed her stuff, since I have a truck I would haul the stuff to her house. Trying to be nice and meet her half way, not going to pack the stuff for her but will move it for her. I did kinda joke in the email that her "toys" you guys and gals know what I mean were in a bag under her sink at the old house. Called them toys with a smiley face. THe email was short to the point with a little humor to it.
If any of you guys are in the Dallas fort worth area and want to hook up for a drink or just to shoot the sh!t Im in the area!!!!
I did kinda joke in the email that her "toys" you guys and gals know what I mean were in a bag under her sink at the old house. Called them toys with a smiley face.
I would have wrapped a condom around the toys. Keep the toys safe.
But I'm weird like that.
Classic Pookie.
She got them a while ago around our first split, when our sex life kinda dried up. She had OM, but I guess he wasnt all that in the sack! after we reconciled, the toys went into hibernation.
She always said our sex was the best, and would get mad and feel neglected when I was stressed and sex was the furthest thing on my mind. So maybe I just figured out one of her LL's was the physical connection. Well that obviously isnt something I can go work on now with her
Again I believe some of the mystery is working a bit, since she seems to be interested in what I am doing and stuff like that. Our texts are robotic a bit like TH says, but she is the one who initiates contact first about the kids usually and then into stuff about me. Am I wrong to believe she is still kinda wondering what I am doing?
Another thing was if you kep up with my thread she did go to church last sunday, dont know what the message was but she was reaching out to me like crazy sunday and monday, maybe God's house hit a note with her. She said she is taking the kids tomorrow, she didnt ask if i was going, I think I will show up dressed dapper and see my kids. what do you guys think?
She got them a while ago around our first split, when our sex life kinda dried up.
So put a nice pink bow around them.
I think I will show up dressed dapper and see my kids.
If I had kids it would be exactly what I would do.
Sorry, I can't comment on God's house, that would be mind reading.
Thanks Pookie,
I will go to church tomorrow and focus on the kids. I will look my best, smell good and smile ear to ear!!
Rent any old Cary Grant movies yet?
Arsenic and Old Lace (1944) Frank Capra, director. Grant brings his fiancée to meet his aunts, to discover they are "compassionately" poisoning their lonely guests. Josephine Hull and Jean Adair play the sweet, crazy aunts, with Peter Lorre and Boris Karloff. It's a madhouse!
The Philadelphia Story (1940) George Cukor, director. Grant harasses his ex-wife, played by Katharine Hepburn, who is getting remarried. James Stewart, a nosey reporter, helps her to thaw out the night before the wedding (oops!). I also loved the remake in a musical form, High Society.
Operation Petticoat (1959) Blake Edwards, director. Grant, commander of a pink sub, has his hands full with a con-man first lieutenant (Tony Curtis) and a bevy of army nurses mucking things up.
Once Upon A Time (1944) Alexander Hall, director. Only Grant could pull off this kiddie fantasy starring a dancing caterpillar we never see until the end. It may have been a commercial and critical flop, but I loved it. See my long review.
Bringing Up Baby (1938) Howard Hawks, director. Grant is a nerdy paleontologist waiting for a bone in the mail, but a peppy dog, Katharine Hepburn and a pet leopard who loves the song "I'll Do Anything For You, Baby!" complicate matters!
His Girl Friday (1940) Howard Hawks, director. Reporter Grant vies for a top story with his reporter ex-wife (Rosalind Russell) who planned to leave her job to get remarried. This is based on a real newspaper story, The Front Page, from 1928. The path of true love was never more twisted.
Monkey Business (1952) Howard Hawks, director. Grant invents a youth serum in his laboratory and he, then his wife (Ginger Rogers) try it out with Marilyn Monroe as the flirty secretary who can't type. Oh to be a kid again!
My Favorite Wife (1940) Garson Kanin, director. Grant's first wife (Irene Dunne) returns after seven years on a desert island with a hunky man (Randolph Scott) and Grant, who has just remarried, is very suspicious of their relationship and spies on them, hehe.
The Awful Truth (1937) Leo McCarey, director. Grant again suspects his wife (Irene Dunne) of cheating and before their divorce is final, they banter and humiliate each other while dating people totally wrong for them. Another peppy dog, same one maybe.
Father Goose (1964) Ralph Nelson, director. Grant's lovable, alcoholic hermit character must watch for enemy jets from a deserted island, but a feisty teacher (Leslie Caron) with her precocious girls need protection after being abandoned.
The Bachelor and the Bobby Soxer (1947) Irving Reis, director. Grant runs into a no-nonsense judge (Mryna Loy) and then her kid sister (Shirley Temple) who flips over him so that Grant is ordered by the judge to date her until she regains her senses...or someone does!
I'm No Angel (1933) William Ruggles/Mae West?, director. Baby-faced Grant without a polished accent is the fella screenwriter Mae West, the original sexpot, falls for and agrees to marry, but it takes her quick wit in court to overcome obstacles for them. Mesmerizing, uncensored fun that scandalized proper society and Hollywood!
Houseboat (1958) Melville Shavelson, director. Grant, a widower gaining custody of his disappointed children, needs a dilapidated houseboat and sexy maid (Sophia Loren) to find his life again. Loren married Carlo Ponti by proxy despite married Grant's second proposal during filming. Tough acting happy after that, but he did.
Gunga Din (1939) George Stevens, director. Grant, Victor McLaglen and Douglas Fairbanks Jr. are like the Three Muskateers while stationed in India to stop a cult and their huge army. These guys really ham it up sometimes, but their love for each other was extraordinary!
Talk of the Town (1942) George Stevens, director. Grant escapes prison before being hung for something he didn't do and hides in a noted attorney's (Ronald Colman) home where he, Colman and his secretary (Jean Arthur) become friends before the cops find Grant. Biting commentary on the justice system.
Walk Don't Run (1966) Charles Walters, director. Grant's last film has him a matchmaker while on business in a crowded Tokyo during the 1964 Olympics. Samantha Eggar and Jim Hutton find love with Grant's pointers and help distracting her fiancée. Grant goes public in his underwear!
Good God TH,
I have them all!!!
TH,
Thanks for the Cary Grant library!!!! I will be on my best behavior tomorrow!
I was just forced to organize several drawers looking for my copy of "Philadelphia Story" (wanted to watch it myself). I still haven't found it, but I found "Arsenic and Old Lace", "To Catch a Thief" and "North by Northwest", all Cary Grant films
W sent a reply to my email with just an OK. I guess she didnt pick up on my humor. I do not need to respond to a simple OK.
I am going over to my brothers house to hang out a bit, and will call the kiddos on my way there. I will tell the kids I will see them tomorrow at church, dont need to tell the W, S will probably tell her anyway. Everyone enjoy your weekend, I am going to finish new living sitch stuff tomorrow after church. I take sundays off from the gym
SO I was on my way to my Brothers house, semt a text to the W and asked if the kids could talk, she replied that D was already asleep and S was playing wiht some friends, I said ok.
About an hour later W calls let it go to VM. It was S on the phone and left me a message with W coaching him in the background. He says, hi daddy, I love you, I miss you I will talk to you tomorrow. She is telling him what to say which we both do this as a common courtesy. THe message keeps going with the W talking to S. W sounded wore smooth out, you could hear in her voice she is drained.
I sent her a text saying I was busy meeting with my brother(we have some business deals together) and that I would like her to tell the kids I will see them tomorrow at church. She replied ok, 2 minutes later hows it going? I said fine i will talk to you later about it. She replies ok, tell your brother I said Hi, gnight! I replied he sayts hi, and gnight 2 u too!.
When I seem to end the convo she seems to want to carry it on, I am not a jerk but i dont go into too much detail. I feel good about my sitch right now, no matter where it goes 5 days until our first hearing. Our D has not been brought up in weeks, no mention of it from either of us. I will show up not contest and treat it like business. I will leave the emotions in the lobby.....
When I seem to end the convo she seems to want to carry it on, I am not a jerk but i dont go into too much detail
Tell her you are practicing juggling chainsaws, and you don't want to lose an arm
Night!
TH,
I do feel like I am juggling chainsaws, went to church this morning met the W and kids in the parking lot. S5 wanted to attend service with Daddy, the little trooper sat through a 1 1/2 service and did so good. W did not join us, she was servicing at the church and was in D3's room. W had to go grocery shopping so I took the kids for a quick lunch.
She met with us afterward and brought me my favorite sushi roll from the store(act of kindness). Kinda surprised me, especially since her mood today was anger, non talkative and moody. I did not let it effect me one bit. I was happy playful with the kids, dressed nice and smellin good.
THe kids said they wanted to go home with me and I told them they could stay with me on Tuesday night. W quickly said why not Wed? I said isnt our first hearing thursday? she said "ya" I said do you remember what time? she said I have to look at the paperwork. I said Wed should work fine for me. I shut the car door and waled back to my truck.
The last time I saw her this moody, I cant even remember, but it was during our first S, where she acted the most like this. I did post some fun stuff on FB last night about my upcoming trip to CA for my 20th reunion! I had a ton of people, men and women both psoting on there how much they look forward to seeing me, even some HS ex's. W has been checking my FB lately, maybe that got to her. But here I am mind reading, and it does me no good.
She made a comment about how I have "fixed" some financial issues since we split, I said I am focused better now. She rolled her eyes nad carried on.
I start to think about this, W is showing me all the things i dont like about her, and it makes it easier. Like many here, my W still has her own issues to deal with. She obviously detached first, but it does not appear she is dealing with her issues. Nothing I can do about it though.
I start to think about this, W is showing me all the things i dont like about her, and it makes it easier. Like many here, my W still has her own issues to deal with. She obviously detached first, but it does not appear she is dealing with her issues. Nothing I can do about it though.
That's step 19 on the WAS script; ignore your own flaws and find "magic" in another person.
Perfect love isn't finding the perfect person, but perfectly loving an imperfect person.
BTW, has anyone read The Seven Levels of Intimacy by Matt Kelly? If so, any recommendations?
Hey Pin,
nice to hear from you, I have not read the book, dont feel I need to for this R lately. I forgot to mention, I ran into a woman I dated before the W, she since got married, 2 kids and is also going through a D. She just sent me a message on FB saying it was good seeing you, and that you look great!!! Good for PMA, but just gonna lay low for a while.
Pin call me ignorant, but your reference to the script, was that intended to be about me or the W?
I was referring to your wife. At least from what I've seen so far, most WASs aren't big on changing anything about themselves except where they're going to live and whom they're going to sleep with. Exceptions are duly noted however.
Isn't it weird how once you've started making your changes, losing weight, getting in shape etc. that women start to notice you? I've had more flirting directed at me in the last month than I ever remember. I just need to stay focused on more GAL, not Get A Sandwich...
Ya I gotcha. I have not ever really let my physical appearance slip too much, but I did lose about 20 pounds of bad weight, started tanning again, and keeping up with the shaving of the head and just looking and being like I am taking care of myself.
It probably goes through their head, why cant we do this while things are normal, why does it take a bomb to wake us up? its like you go back to the loving an imperfect person perfectly. People get comfortable and lose the urge to always look and feel their best.
The girl I dated before the W, I actually ran into a t church, which was very strange. She lives 40 miles away and showed up at my church? we bumped into each other in the hallway? We are both going through a divorce?
I start to think about this, W is showing me all the things i dont like about her, and it makes it easier. Like many here, my W still has her own issues to deal with
Yours and mine too
Had an unpleasant interaction with mine today, and I have been practically bouncing off the walls and putting nothing but huge smile lines in my face
When you feel really good about yourself, when you feel really happy, and then there's... well, you know
Ya I gotcha. I have not ever really let my physical appearance slip too much, but I did lose about 20 pounds of bad weight, started tanning again, and keeping up with the shaving of the head and just looking and being like I am taking care of myself.
It probably goes through their head, why cant we do this while things are normal, why does it take a bomb to wake us up? its like you go back to the loving an imperfect person perfectly. People get comfortable and lose the urge to always look and feel their best.
The girl I dated before the W, I actually ran into a t church, which was very strange. She lives 40 miles away and showed up at my church? we bumped into each other in the hallway? We are both going through a divorce?
My W has a lot of resentment about this...
I feel good TH, I am starting to feel, yes I have flaws but all in all Im a good guy. I think people just get bored in their lives. Was I getting bored in my M? ya but I would not just pack, leave and file in a month. I wasnt happy either, maybe my W did me a favor and pulled the trigger that I was scared to pull. W is still very cold tonight, I texted her and said I am taking the dogs for a walk, will take about 30 mins can you have S give me a call? she replied: K
Exactly 30 minutes later phone rings and its S. He is asking what I am doing, he gets upset when I told him I was walking the dogs. W gets on the phone and tells me what he is upset about. I said I heard him. S gets back on the phone and says he wants to stay with me. I told him that he needs to get to bed and be good for mommy, I told him I would see him tomorrow, W and I have no plans to see each other but I am going to make it a point to see the kids, one way or another.
again Pin it goes back to people get to the point of "void" in their M's. They feel they dont need to be that person, who their spouse fell in love with. I go back and forth on this, the advice is to look, feel and well be what they fell in love with. I understand the point in doing this, but at some point do you have to do this every couple of years or face another bomb? That is why I have revisited my first sep over and over, and I have said I am not going to do this every 3 years with the W. Things get tough and she starts packing.
THis is the difference, she needs to see the true meaning of worse in better or "worse" that is not my job to teach her, coach her or hold her hand in the education and realization of what a Marriage is. Sometimes I want to smack her upside the head with the books and research I have done. She needs to find this on her own, if not she will deal with this in her next M, R or whereever she leads her life to.
So the whole night, the girl I dated before W has been texting me all night, she got my number off of my company website. Any way I have been talking with her about her own sitch, I have been using what I know and have learned here to give her some guidance. She is a gorgeous 30 year old woman who works for a doctor. She said she has felt unhappy for 8 months, she left and that she just has no feelings for him anymore. i told her that she really needs to stop and think about things.
She said they have tried counceling they have spoken with elders at their church, and nothing has changed. Am I treading on water that should be left alone? Her D is finalized in 2 weeks, I have my first hearing in 5 days. She wants to meet up and just get together again, am I doing something wrong here? It feels good to have a conversation with a woman, who 8 years ago we had some chemistry, but at the same time I am still married. I fight with the fact that its only talking, but I am attracted to her, any thoughts from those who have kept an eye on me over the last few months?
DSH - if you were her husband fighting for the M, would you want her to go see an ex-bf from 8 years ago?
Nope, that is why I have talked to her about what she is doing. not encouraging her to be or in fact go against the M. I have passed on a lot ofwhat I have learned here to other people.
She could be telling me just what she wants to at this time, I am not going to get in the middle of their sitch, and will not try to discourage her M, I am actually trying to help her with her M.
Again I dont know if he is fighting for it, she said over the last 3 months he has kept the kids for one night, in that he pawned them off to his parents so he could go out. I am not trying to judge but when I have my kids, they are with me, I do not pass them off to someone else, I embrace my time with them, d things with them and not focus on anything but them.
Am I startint to be the WA now? I dont see anything improving in my sitch, as far as reconciling before D. Is it wrong for me to interact with this other woman?
Dsh,
Forget that you've been trying to save your marriage for months. Is this woman someone who's stable? Who's going to be in a good relationship with you? Doubtful.
It's very natural to be attracted to potential partners right now. I struggle with it all the time, especially since physical affection is so important to me. But I'm patient, my vows matter, and until I'm officially divorced, I'll do nothing that I'd regret in the future. Do The Right Thing... (wow, I should change my forum handle to Spike Lee).
Hey Pin,
I will not do anything before the D that would "hurt" or damage anything. I dont think anyone could be very stable in the process of a M falling apart. But it is nice to talk to someone going through the same stuff. W just texted me asking if I wanted to pick S up from school tomorrow since they are spending the night with me. She gets me so confused yesterday we agreed to wed, now she is back to tuesday. not going to argue, the 2 days dont really make a difference to me. I will get to see the kids sooner!!!!
I am going to move some stuff for the W today, being nice I will be chipper and happy. I told her if she wasnt home I would leave it in front of her garage. SHe said I will be here.... I asked her if she wanted the stuff in the pantry, she said all of it especially her recipes!! I said Ok.
Maybe she will be nice today unlike yesterday. Either way I will be happy.
Helped move more stuff to the W's house. Had a buddy help me with the heavy boxes. Her house was a total mess. I noticed her wedding ring was out on the kitchen counter. Neither one of us have been wearing them lately. Kids were excited to see me. Her thermostat was still bropken, I looked at it, reset it and now it works. When we were leaving, I told S I was picking him up from school tomorrow and he and D would stay the night with me. We jumped up and said I am going to go stay with daddy forever! I laughed a bit, W says "your daddy will always be here".
My buddy and I left, He said this is the second time I have helped you over at the W's house. He said she does not look happy and has a look on her face that she wants you to stay longer. I said you noticed that to? He said ya but she is as stubborn as they come, he knows W pretty well.
After we left W started texting me about stuff I brought over. She said you brought stuff that isnt mine. I told her set it aside or just put it in the garage. She then goes into more texting. I text her that my buddy wants to borrow the pool pass so he can hang out at the pool with all the ladies he saw there today. She started texting back, See you should have moved here. I said Ya "buddy" would have liked that, but he likes the pool and the leasing agents at my place. No response. Then about 10 mins later she said next sunday, why dont we take the kids to my pool together. I said as long as I dont have to go to houston that should be fine.
Another decent day of communication. I did some nice things for her, and she brought up doing something together next weekend. Again our first hearing is in 3 days, will just be myself and not be blah at the courthouse.
Good luck in court, looks like your kids know who the stable parent is. Reading your sich some of it hits close to home.
Thanks 40,
I have been off the board for a while. My W is not a bad parent, but my kids miss me a lot, thats obvious. I am starting to come to the realization that my W just wants out of this M. She wants to be friends, which right now I have no reason not to be. There is not OM, she has been nice( most of the time) so why be hateful? I do miss some things about her, but at the same time I am not curled up in a corner being a baby about this. What does that say? Where are my feelings of I cant live without her? not really there i guess. I need to really look at why I miss her, bcuz I have not been totally lost right now without her,
dsh,
I think now you'll really be able to concentrate on you. The focus is off her. Just be prepared for her to try and reconnect at the most inconvenient time for you!
Thanks Pin,
I am doing pretty good right now. My buddy who helped me move said the W's eyes were focused on me the whole time we were there yesterday. Am I trying to mind read through his observations? probably. But he came out and said "bro she isnt over you not even close" I hate to hear that, its ok for the hope factor, but not for the expectations.
W sent me a text about some financial stuff she can figure out herself. I did not reply so she called me, asked about it, I said I would look into it. She then asked to speak to the kids, she asked why I didnt respond to her text, said I am busy cooking the kids dinner, she apologized. S didnt want to talk to her, she said thats ok, D was on the potty said I love you, then gave the phone back to me, I said D is "focused", W laughed and saaid she had clients at 7 and 8 and that is why she called now, I didnt really say anything other than ok. She seemed a bit happier than the last few days, but I dont really pry or ask, if its about the kids, fine other than that we will jsut see how things keep moving along. She just texted me that i need to drop off D at her house.
My reply, looking back through Coach I believe, and replied "cheers!" she sent one right back that said, a beer sounds good. I said "go get one tonight, take a break! she replied "no time....tired" I said Sorry, maybe another time...
she then tells me she has another outcall, and rescheduled her 6 tonight for Thursday. I really have no reason to kep carrying this conversation on, so I will not reply any more. What do you think? The cheers comment probably got a chuckle from her, Thanks Coach and she wanted to engage in conversation. I will leave it alone for now, she knows i am with the kids so I will get busy with them!!!
any thoughts on previous posts?
W called me again earlier, to ask if what was left at the old house would fit in her car. I went back over what I texted her earlier. She didnt need to call me about it, but she did. I answered and was upbeat. She did not ask to talk to the kids again, I didnt offer either. She ended the phone call, with "well thats all I needed" I said, ok bye. She sounded depressed and sad on the phone, again drained like she sounds all the time. This is her decision, and if she wants to change her "decision" it is up to her, I will not bring up the "M" "us" or "r" talk again. Its in her court. I feel I have done very well over the past few weeks, and I will not let myself backslide anymore. Whats the point? I am not going to start over where I was 2 months ago asking her to reconsider. She can see I am moving on, and can live my life with or without her. I love her, but I will not put myself through anymore of this crap.
I haven't chimed in your sitch in a bit but one thing comes up pretty frequently, you respond to every single one of her texts (ok, 98.9% of her texts LOL)
There is no perfect rule for this but I would say it's ok to let her wait.
If its not about the kids and some sort of drastic emergency, seriously why do you need to respond. You keep saying it yourself, most of these texts she could answer herself if she put effort into it.
Sit her down one day and just be straight with her,
"look this whole process we're going through is because you weren't happy with us or specifically with me. I just didn't do it for you anymore, and you really didn't enjoy being married to me. Looking back I can see you felt like this for quite some time, its the reason why you had that first affair and it's the reason why we split up this time. I get it and I'm fine with it, and it's time for both of us to move on, I won't be knocking down your door begging you to take me back because it's not what I want anymore, truth be told I don't know what I want but I wasn't happy back there either, it's time for both of us to accept this break from each other and explore our options and see what life has in store for us. We're going to have to communicate and be civil with regards to the kids, I know I will do my part in that, but as far as all of this other stuff, maybe it's time you tried taking care of this stuff by yourself instead of always relying on me to do it, not being mean or punitive but I'm a busy guy too and between the kids, my work and my personal life, there isn't a lot of time left over to be available as much as I am to you, I hope you can respect me enough to give me my space now that we're no longer together."
It will take a minute to say this and she'll get the point.
You can be as nice as you want but I think your first D hearing is in a day or so, being nice, patient, caring, humble, helpful really isn't doing anything to motivate her to stop the D filing. I think you've been as patient as anyone can expect to be in this situation bro. You handled the first separation and her affair like a champ but she strayed again even if there wasn't an affair this time, it's like she's been planning to do this again to you for quite some time.
Detaching is really letting go.
You can love her, you can dedicate a portion of your heart to her and love her enough to set her free, if that's what she wants, give it to her.
As for you, I think if you want to go out and see that woman, I say go for it. I will warn you that this woman sounds like she's in a very vulnerable position in her life, it wouldn't take much to take advantage of this situation, you have to gauge your actions, exercise your self control and do what you think you can. If you don't think you can exercise that control then you have to decide if you're calling it quits on your marriage and if you are, don't feel guilty considering what you've been through and the fact that your wife has filed for divorce, you are technically single, only you can decide when you're ready to be "single" again.
For what it's worth, you're doing awesome, you're handling this like a champ, my expectations were pretty high when I first started talking to you but I'm a pretty good judge of character, I knew you were up to the task, I knew you could handle it.
Thanks Rob,
As far as the other woman, I do not plan in to jump into anything. She said her divorce is final in about 5 weeks, after tomorrow's hearing, as long as there arent any red flags, mine will be done around the same time. I took S to school in this crazy weather from that hurricane that is bleeding in to North tx. Dropped D off at W's house, again was cheerful and happy, I think I woke the W up, it took her forever to come to the door, and she looked like she had been hit by a truck. We didnt exchange any words, I just hugged my D, she said "daddy I love you so much" I smiled and said it back to her.
I turned around and walked back to my truck. I do agree that I respond to things I dont need to, the speech I am sure will happen in the near future. Except for me responding to texts, I think she is getting the point somewhat that I am doing fine by my actions. As we all say actions are louder than words.
I will keep going on my journey and enjoy my life and my children
Sit her down one day and just be straight with her,
"look this whole process we're going through is because you weren't happy with us or specifically with me. I just didn't do it for you anymore, and you really didn't enjoy being married to me. Looking back I can see you felt like this for quite some time, its the reason why you had that first affair and it's the reason why we split up this time. I get it and I'm fine with it, and it's time for both of us to move on, I won't be knocking down your door begging you to take me back because it's not what I want anymore, truth be told I don't know what I want but I wasn't happy back there either, it's time for both of us to accept this break from each other and explore our options and see what life has in store for us. We're going to have to communicate and be civil with regards to the kids, I know I will do my part in that, but as far as all of this other stuff, maybe it's time you tried taking care of this stuff by yourself instead of always relying on me to do it, not being mean or punitive but I'm a busy guy too and between the kids, my work and my personal life, there isn't a lot of time left over to be available as much as I am to you, I hope you can respect me enough to give me my space now that we're no longer together."
Excellent response. Anyone want to amend it and make it shorter? LOL. I could use something like this but would like to say it in fewer words. (plus I've got a stbx who is texting me about being depressed though he is the on D'ing me). Sorry to highjack your thread, man.
DSH, you are doing a great job!
Thanks Soleil,
Had a good C seesion this morning. I wanted to go before my first hearing this morning. We talked about tough love, dobson this extremely helpful website. He thought how ironic it was about "bumping" into old GF at church and we are going through the same crap. He said you can have friends that are women, just do what feels natural to you.
We touched a bit on the D, and how I feel about things. Told him I am keeping expectations at 0, but still have some hope. He mentioned to me what if your W says, hey this can stop. What would your reaction be? I said to be honest, as much as i miss and love her, I dont miss who she is right now. So in my opinion her changing her mind this soon, we would be back to square one, and I dont think she has had enough time in reality or in the bed she has made. So as much as I would want to make things work, I dont see it doing any good in the near future.
As I move on further and reflect, I dont think she has made any progress as far as her own issues. She buries herself with work, the kids and is tired all the time. Not muc room in there to work on herself.
hearing is tomorrow not today
Don't text a message like that,
you sit them down the next time you see them,
and you start it off by saying
"Maybe you should sit down, we need to talk about something...."
takes less than a minute and it has a lasting impact,
because you did it in person, you initiated the conversation, you were genuine & honest enough to do something about the situation and you asked for space.
Doing it by email or txt would never accomplish the same thing. Emails & txt can't convey body language & sincerity expressed in your voice tone.
Rob, I wasnt gonna text or email it. When the time is right, it will be done in person. What I was referring to is the fact "i think she gets it" as to the way I am conducting my life.
A few weeks after the bomb, when she came down and talked to me at 3 am after I went out, when she said " not that it matters anymore, but why have you never fought for me"? At first that statement made me thin I need to wooo her, I did, and guess what didnt work.
So where I am at today, the person she is right now is not worth fighting for. She probably wanted me to keep pursueing to nurture her own insecurites. But I cannot do it, part of me wants it to work for the kids, convienence, and the fear of what lies ahead for me on my own. I am starting to embrace being on my own. I feel less stress, anger and tension.
I am on an up today, could be on a down tomorrow after the hearing, dont know but I cant worry about it. As I work on myself and she does whatever she does, she is not my focus anymore.
Well if you haven't already heard it a thousand times,
we know pursuing (chasing, "fighting for the marriage", etc.) just doesn't work.
She expects you to do this,
for many different reasons I'm sure,
one of them possibly to satisfy her ego, it's hard to say.
You became someone she cheated on a few years ago, you became someone she stopped caring for in the right way, you became someone she didn't want to be with anymore and originally wanted to kick you out of the home when this nonsense started - fighting for someone who would do those things to you doesn't make sense to me and hopefully it doesn't make sense to any LBS struggling with this.
The fact that she asked you that indicates that letting the WAS go works, she expected you to chase her, pursue her so that she could continue "running away", when you stop pursuing a WAS, they don't have anything to run away from, in fact, it causes them to start asking themselves questions, one of them being "why didn't you fight for me?", she changes direction, she stops keeping distance from you when she originally wanted a lot of distance between the two of you. The WAS contacts their LBS, texting, calling, emailing, leaving voicemails, asking for favors and assistance with tasks that you have confirmed could have been easily done by her alone. They are all excuses to get into contact with you, even if they don't believe this fact to be true even to themselves, there is no other way to explain it.
You don't need to "wooo" her, quite the opposite, you need to let her pursue you, you need to let her believe that you have finally understood and agreed with her that you believe it's over, you won't fight for her, you won't chase her anymore, you've given up on this relationship and are moving on with your life. It's only when this happens that the momentum of this situation moves in your direction.
Don't be surprised of some new developments in your situation (with regards to your wife's actions towards you), they could happen any time (and then again nothing may happen), either way like you said, you are embracing being on your own and you feel less stress, anger and tension - that's a small victory right there ;-)
not that it matters anymore, but why have you never fought for me"?
Did she just see "Eat, Pray, Love"?
Elizabeth Gilbert said that to the boyfriend she had an affair with right before she left for Italy.
Then she spent the better part of a year moaning about how much she loved the affair guy and how she couldn't let go (mostly in India).
Who knows TH, she asked to borrow the Last Samuri from my dvd collection.
Ive been following Robx advice and W has texted a few times today not kid related. Didnt bother replying. She then called no VM, didnt call back. after a few hours she texted Hello? still no response. So she finally texts me asking what time S went to sleep last night, I replied 845 but he had trouble falling asleep. She then asked if i packed him a lunch, my reply was "yes whats with all the questions? She normally would have fired back but wrote this: Just askin... u didnt sign his folder so I didnt know if u even opened his backpack.
I was going to write out a big speech about the fact, you think I would send my son to school with no lunch? Look missy I took care of the kids for 6 months without your help I know how to take care of my kids.
But i didnt send the above I didnt send squat. Like many of you say she is still temperature checking, and I am going to keep her thermometer as far away from my @ss as possible!!!!
TH,
Sounds heart warming....did you cry?
Sounds heart warming....did you cry?
LOL. Yeah, but they were tears of joy
Ok all, had the previous girfriend over for dinner and a movie. Made flat irn steak on the grill, grilled portabella caps marinated in olive oil and balsamic vinegar. a mixed salad with pine nuts and a mixed balsamic ranch dressing. Garlic bread sticks and 4 cheese ravioli in a Vodka sauce. Ya I over did it, but she did the dishes
It turned out nice we talked about her sitch, my sitch watched a movie. During the movie she rested her leg against mine and we talked about the movie. After the movie she scratched my back for a bit, and I walked her to her car.
Se gave me a hug and said she enjoyed the evening.
Let me tell you LBS H's what she told me since she is the WAW. SHe has been unhappy since January, her H pleaded begged and wanted to contstantly be around her and woo her up until July. SHe said it was too much, she felt she did not have room to understand what was going on. She felt smothered at a time where she needed the space. She says she doesnt care if he dates, or what he does unless their kids are with him.
She also told me when they started having problems, she asked for space, and she says she doesnt know if it would have turned out different. So my point is this, when the WAW wants space, give it to her, not saying leave the house, because you have to keep your balls in tact but do not PURSUE!!!!! IT really does push them farther away, and it will not get you anywhere. So if you give her space and you dont work things out it is still better for your "letting go" in the long run.
I have my first hearing tomorrow, so wish me luck!!!! its not until the afternoon so I will be on in the AM. PEACE!!!
dsh,
Sounds like you had a great evening. It is great advice that you gave from what she told you. It is spot on.
I wish you luck with the hearing!
thanks LSG, it really is another spot on revalation from a WAW.
She also told me when they started having problems, she asked for space, and she says she doesnt know if it would have turned out different. So my point is this, when the WAW wants space, give it to her, not saying leave the house, because you have to keep your balls in tact but do not PURSUE!!!!! IT really does push them farther away, and it will not get you anywhere. So if you give her space and you dont work things out it is still better for your "letting go" in the long run.
I'm glad you put this out there. As the WAW in my sitch, his hovering was making me run. Now that he has backed off a little I can think, process and fix my thoughts; and I'm willing to do it in the house. It might not be the case in all situations but it's worth a shot.
Doodi
dsh,
I agree. when I found out my W was looking for an apartment last October I immediately went into panic mode by smoothering her. What I needed to do was to step back give her space so she could process the issues and I needed to do the same thing by undersatnding what I was doing that would want her to leave.
Exactly,
I think more people need to read what Doodi highlighted. I have not pursued my W, and our first hearing is today. This is our second go round with a split, so I dont think my sitch is changing. But after my "friendly" date last night, I wanted people to know another WAW's POV.
I am feeling a little Blah this morning. Not looking forward to the hearing, but at the same time, I need some closure to this sitch. I dont truly feel I can completely move on myself until we are D. So I guess a positive side to my sitch is that the W is moving quickly, unlike some others who have been seperated for months or even years, there is still that Limbo feeling without complete closure.
Just wanted to say Good luck with the hearing. Sending positive vibes your way.
thanks Bluestar.
I will post the outcome after I get back, It is the first hearing which is just to set temporary stuff, which has almost pretty much been done except for child support and a schedule. After this I believe we go to mediation, we will see.
Ok all, not much to report. Showed up at the hearing, W wasnt even there. Her attorney was there and said they need an extension due to the fact the previous hearing is running long, so I now have to wait until Oct. 7th. I provided my paperwork to W's L and said, it doesnt look pretty. W's L said maybe we can work out an agreement prior to the rescheduled hearing, I was upbeat andsaid Im sure we can. So I sat in the court and waiting to be sworn in(this way) the Judge acknowledges that I did in fact appear, and it cant be a default judgement. As I am sitting there, the previous case petitioner(an attractive 40 something blond) walks in and says "who are you". I said I have nothing to do with oyur case just waiting to get swonr in for my case. She said "oh, you're cute". I smiled said thank you and the W's L overheard it. I was laughing inside, if only the W was there and heard it what a classic outcome it would have been.
So really no step forward or back, another 30 days to DB and be "legally" married. I dont know why the W would not show up, I guess she really didnt need to be there. I have not had any contact from her or to her since those texts from her yesterday. I will need to contact her and see if the kids are spending the night with me Saturday. She is the one who mentioned the family pool outing Sunday, I will not bring it up, if she does, she does.
a 30 day extension because the previous hearing is running long?
Doesn't sound right.
MY STBXW put our case on hold again. She told me her lawyer has one client who has been seperated for 9 years due to such delays. Huh.
a 30 day extension because the previous hearing is running long?
Doesn't sound right.
MY STBXW put our case on hold again. She told me her lawyer has one client who has been seperated for 9 years due to such delays. Huh.
Now that gives new meaning to Limbo...
I think its the truth TH and Pin, I verified it with the Clerk. Plus my W's L is the one representing a party in the previous hearing. I dont think its my W delaying things. It does give her another 30 days til even our first hearing so it wont be final for at least another 60-90 days at the earliest. But again I am not contesting the D, just going to protect the kids and myself, I have come to the truth, she wants a D she can have it and pay for it. What pisses me off is it wasted my whole day, I got sh!t to do!!!!
[quote=dsh4320]I think its the truth TH and Pin, I verified it with the Clerk. Plus my W's L is the one representing a party in the previous hearing. I dont think its my W delaying things. It does give her another 30 days til even our first hearing so it wont be final for at least another 60-90 days at the earliest. But again I am not contesting the D, just going to protect the kids and myself, I have come to the truth, she wants a D she can have it and pay for it.
What pisses me off is it wasted my whole day, I got sh!t to do!!!! [/quote]
Now that sounds like detaching!
HAHA ya Pin, what choice do you have at this point. I went to the gym, and sent W a text to have the kids call me before bed, thanks. also i would like for them to spend the night this saturday and I will take them to church. SHe replied with why dont you take them for 2 nights next weekend. I said that means I wont see them this weekend, not enough. She said we can still go to church together, I said thats fine but 2 hours with the kids is not enough. SHe said you can have them the whole weekend next weekend and they will have longer time with you. Me: I understand that, but I can only take them one day next weekend and I am gone the following weekend to CA. She did not reply after that.
She says she wants me to spend as much time with the kids as possible, I am throwing it out there, and she tries to set the pace. Im not going to let her do this. She contradicts herself for 2 reasons, one she is trying to pick a fight and second she is temperature checking.
When she could just let me take the kids one night, I even through out there, hey you could use the break go do something fun!
So I didnt engage in a fight, kept my cool and even suggested she go do something for herself. All 180's.
She didnt bring up the family pool idea for sunday like she suggested on monday. One of my pet peeves with her, short memory and part of her loopiness. She forgets stuff like that but can remember the color shoe laces I was wearing the last time I pissed her off
Anyway she hasnt gotten back to me, there is no schedule in place so if I dont here from her by tomorrow afternoon, I will tell her straight out I am taking the kids Saturday. Whatcha think?
...So really no step forward or back, another 30 days to DB and be "legally" married. I dont know why the W would not show up, I guess she really didnt need to be there. I have not had any contact from her or to her since those texts from her yesterday. I will need to contact her and see if the kids are spending the night with me Saturday. She is the one who mentioned the family pool outing Sunday, I will not bring it up, if she does, she does.
Why wouldn't she need to be at the d hearing that she filed for? Are you missing something here? Did you file for divorce or did she? She did, so I'm assuming she should be there.
Remember what I said previously...
...Don't be surprised of some new developments in your situation (with regards to your wife's actions towards you), they could happen any time (and then again nothing may happen), either way like you said, you are embracing being on your own and you feel less stress, anger and tension - that's a small victory right there ;-)
Methinks she may be getting cold feet about this, otherwise why not show up & get it over with, it's what she said she wanted.
Continue detaching....
Thanks Rob,
It got more interesting tonight. I went with a buddy to watch saints and vikings, blah to the game. On the way, I texted her to remind her to have the kids call me, the phone rings less than a minute later and my little girl is on the phone talking so cute. I talk to her about spending time with daddy this weekend and she got so excited. The W always has me on speaker and it pisses me off!!! you cam tell she is right there next to the phone. So I then talk to S, I ask him to take me off speaker so I can hear him better, he and I talk for a while then I tell him goodnight and hang up. Less than 30 seconds later I get a text from you know who:
W: We have to agree on things. U cant just tell them whatever and expect that to happen/
Me:They need to spend time with me how is this an inconvenience to you?
W:Im not saying they dont. They should be able to see you more than a night here or there. The whole weekend accomplishes that. I have plans with them this weekend, so you can have them next. I think thats fair. And you can see them for a few hours every thursday night and so that when its your weekend you can have them Thurs, Fri and Sat thru sunday morning on your weekends.
Me: Im still going for 50/50 so Im glad you think you can plan there time without talking to me as well. It works both ways Wife. Dont think I am just going to go along with your plan. You did not discuss with me anything this weekend as far as the kids time.
W: I have tried to call time after time but u dont seem to care to answer my calls and u never even answer all my texts(proof I have been dark
) The times we hjave been able to communicate, its short and oyu seem to wanna shove me off. So we are going to implement this plan come next week?
Me:None of your calls or texts have been about a plan for the kids, I will take them this saturday we can start a plan next week that we BOTH agree on.
W: That's cause you always hang up or dont answer so I never get to ask. Im sorry you dont like it, but we are busy this weekend. What day do you leave next weekend?
Me: I am busy we will talk about it tomorrow.
W:Im busy tomorrow
W: Its almost 9, what could possibly be more important?
W: I have a possible solution if you would tell me what day you are leaving, but like I said you always shove me off.
I did not respond after the last few. The last three from the wife were all about 15 mins apart. It took all my strength not to lose it with her. So I yelled at every play during the game.
She didnt mention plans with the kids this weekend only 3 hours ago with the first round of texts. She knew I was waiting for the kids to call, and I had to text her to get them to call. Is she using the kids to play who has the power? Maybe she is mad that the first hearing was postponed? wasnt my doing I showed up ready to get the ball rolling, Im sure her L let her know this.
What am I dealing with here?
She tells ,e she wants me to see the kids more and then when I am there to do so, she tries to set the rules?
there is no schedule in place since I just moved to my own place from the other place she held over my head because of the "bachelor pad" scenario being bad for the kids. She says seeing them every once in a while. I have been in my own place for a little over a week and have had them over 3 times.
I dont like the way she is going with this, I feel she is using the kids as bait or an excuse for me to taking her interactions.
Her comment above using the guilt factor of me being busy and throwing it back at me that its 9 and what is more important than this?
She does not talk about a plan or the kids most the time when she calls or texts, its meaningless bullsh!t and when she does call and I dont answer she doesnt leave a VM. I would expect if it had to do with a shcedule or the kids a VM would at least state that?
How do I handle things from here? I do not want her to use the kids this way, its immature and it gets me fumed!!!!
Help????
What's your plan? Now that you're in your new place, have you thought about what you want the schedule to look like? Before you get into any discussion with her again, I would write down ideally what you want it to be and then think about what you're willing to settle for. As the guys say, take the lead on the issue.
I think she's up to something. For her to pull this kind of last minute late night talk on the same day the hearing was postponed....something just feels wrong to me.
I agree with Bluestar (I almost said BS...now that's funny) that she is up to something. She seems like she's just being hateful and vindictive. Problem points I see...
*If she filed, she should be there with bells on ready, willing and able to get what she asked for.
*Using your kids to hit you where it hurts--the only thing left to use against you
*Listening in on calls and then picking fights over it.
*Talking out of both sides of her mouth--I want you to spend time with the kids...But it has to be on MY terms. UH NO!
*Worrying about what you're doing at 9pm. None ya business.
I guess you get that I'm not feeling her actions at all. I personally don't do well with game playing and that's what it feels like she's doing. She's trying to control and bait. Why, I don't know...but I wouldn't care either. I don't see how playing games and picking fights will lead to positive.
I would just have to stay focused on my kids and what is good for them. She'll have to deal. You are absolutely entitled to see them and if she didn't at least check to see if it was ok to book up their entire weekend then she just has to deal with changing her plans. I know it's easier said than done but don't give in.
Good Luck
Doodi
Thanks BS
and Doodi,
She did text me again this morning asking about the kids insurance. I told her It will be in effect any day now. I asked if something was wrong. She said no, just in case something happened she wanted the insurance info.
SHe lead into the question today with something that is nonconfrontational. I answered her question, and that was it.
I want to have a plan similar to others. Anyone else who has followed my thread have any input?
Why would she needs to hit me where it hurts? she filed and I am not standing in her way? Thatt is what I dont get?
Control. She wants to retain some control over you, and the kids are the only way now.
Agreed. This is so friggin lame.
She used to call me controlling, and I have not put out one inkling of a controlling notion, statement or action since we stopped living together.
I sent her a text saying I am going to see the kids this weekend, there will be no other discussion of it.
SHe keeps going and going, telling me I am a bully and dictating how its going to be, just like I have always done.
So I made it simple.
Since we are going to co-parent a schedule should be discussed between both of us and implemented when we both agree. They are our kids, plain and simple.
That was my last and only response to numerous blasts about the schedules, she started to complain as to how I am steering away from the only topic we need to discuss, so I will end it.
That's a crystal clear message.
So she finally caved:
her reply after my last one was :
Fine. you wanted them sat night
Me: yes
Her: Fine
That is that. The anger she yields is just crazy. Did I take the lead here? we still dont have a plan in place which I will put what I would like together and ask her the same.
Let her be angry. Anger, fear, etc are catalytic emotions. Much better than indifference.
I think its the truth TH and Pin, I verified it with the Clerk. Plus my W's L is the one representing a party in the previous hearing. I dont think its my W delaying things. It does give her another 30 days til even our first hearing so it wont be final for at least another 60-90 days at the earliest. But again I am not contesting the D, just going to protect the kids and myself, I have come to the truth, she wants a D she can have it and pay for it. What pisses me off is it wasted my whole day, I got sh!t to do!!!!
It is your wife delaying things,
unless something in this divorce filing is highly contested between the two of you, the wheels on this bus don't move that slowly and someone being separated for 9 years trying to get divorced, one of those people is stalling the process - c'mon use your head, it does not take that long to get divorced.
So she finally caved:
her reply after my last one was :
Fine. you wanted them sat night
Me: yes
Her: Fine
That is that. The anger she yields is just crazy. Did I take the lead here? we still dont have a plan in place which I will put what I would like together and ask her the same.
of course she's angry,
ever here the saying
"... be careful what you wish for because you just might get it"
Her filing for divorce was her power move, her gesture to the world that she's big and strong and can make it all on her own without you and that her life will be all peaches and cream.
By your own words & descriptions, nearly every time you see her, she is in a state of disrepair, looking like she got a few hours sleep, overworked, tired, beat, drained, etc. etc. But the life she asked for was one to be single from you and not have you around to help and learn to be big girl and live on her own and take care of everything on her own, where previously living with you, you shouldered a large portion of the responsibilities that she never had to get involved with.... until now.
And you on the other hand appear to be living good, thriving, you got your own place, work is good, going to the gym, taking care of yourself, working on your personal development, renewing your faith & spirituality, living a good life and taking care of your children and you are busy as heck but still managing quite well.
I'm sure your wife expected you to fail miserably,
she didn't expect you to be succeeding and thriving.
And yes... she will be angry at you,
how dare you be so happy and move on with your life in a positive direction when SHE decided to divorce you?! This isn't how she envisioned her plan to work out. You were supposed to be the person struggling, having a hard time with things, you were supposed to chase her, work hard for her, "fight for her" (remember she said it herself) and guess what..... none of that happened according to her original plan.
Keep doing what you're doing,
expect another delay from her and reasons why it's taking longer, don't expect them to be valid reasons.
I have one question: where is DSH's attorney?
You see, her lawyer can delay things and doesn't have to tell you squat. He does have to notify your attorney, however, and your attorney most likely can smell BS a mile away.
I think its the truth TH and Pin, I verified it with the Clerk. Plus my W's L is the one representing a party in the previous hearing. I dont think its my W delaying things. It does give her another 30 days til even our first hearing so it wont be final for at least another 60-90 days at the earliest. But again I am not contesting the D, just going to protect the kids and myself, I have come to the truth, she wants a D she can have it and pay for it. What pisses me off is it wasted my whole day, I got sh!t to do!!!!
Tell her the next time you see her that if she doesn't plan on attending the next scheduled court date that she needs to let you know so that you don't waste your time going either.
Thanks BS
and Doodi,
She did text me again this morning asking about the kids insurance. I told her It will be in effect any day now. I asked if something was wrong. She said no, just in case something happened she wanted the insurance info.
SHe lead into the question today with something that is nonconfrontational. I answered her question, and that was it.
I want to have a plan similar to others. Anyone else who has followed my thread have any input?
Why would she needs to hit me where it hurts? she filed and I am not standing in her way? Thatt is what I dont get?
If you were in a fight with someone,
would you hit them where it doesn't hurt?
What would be the use of that?
Come up with a plan and propose it to her regarding shared custody of the kids.
No more weekend dad bull$hit.
Tell her what you want, don't be afraid, you never get more than what you ask for.
I don't know what you want as far as a schedule but you need to be clear about it and put it in front of her and let her know that this is what you want.
Do you want an entire week and weekend with the kids and then swap weeks with her?
Monday to friday, saturday & sunday and then she gets the kids for the same amount of time?
Split the week in half and then swap every other weekend?
Monday - Wed with you, thurs - friday with her, weekend for you and then alternate this with her the next week, mon - wed with her, thurs-friday with you, weekend with her, etc.
You need to come up with a plan and present it to her,
you're the man, come up with the plan, stan ;-)
(and if you have kids, maybe get a mini van)
enough rhyming
So she finally caved:
her reply after my last one was :
Fine. you wanted them sat night
Me: yes
Her: Fine
That is that. The anger she yields is just crazy. Did I take the lead here? we still dont have a plan in place which I will put what I would like together and ask her the same.
So much for her "plans" that she said she already had ;-)
You see, her lawyer can delay things and doesn't have to tell you squat. He does have to notify your attorney, however, and your attorney most likely can smell BS a mile away.
Can someone explain this to me... how is that one L can just refuse to give info that is rquested. Because that is happening in my sitch and I think it's really weird.
Can someone explain this to me... how is that one L can just refuse to give info that is rquested. Because that is happening in my sitch and I think it's really weird.
Her lawyer works for her. The stuff they discuss is protected by client-lawyer privlege.
Your lawyer has tools to get this info when you can't (well, you could if you filed motions, etc), and her attorney knows this, so they will notify your attorney of changes, etc in order to avoid a lot of trips to court.
as co-parenting we discuss a plan, neither one of us at this point should dictate to the other "how" its going to be. I haven't seen them in 3 days and I am Not going to wait another week to see them. Plain and simple. This is how I put the last text to her to get her to cave.
I am out at jobsites will read all your input later. TH I will explain the L situation.
I see robx commented quite a bit
One of you has to go into to this with a framework or you're not going to get anywhere. That is not one side dictating. It's just saying this is what I think will work for all of us and then listening to her input. Then you can make adjustments as needed. I would also suggest that you do it by email not texts. Texts can get childish and heated very quickly. In an email, you can read and re-read to form your own response so you don't react too emotionally.
So go over what Robx posted about dividing the week, decide what you think might work and write a very business-like email to W. Post it here first. We'll help you get the emotion out.
I like the plan where we split weeks and alternate. That is the plan I will propose. When the kids are with me I will cover any daycare costs and vice versa. There will be no child support ether way. All medical/dental bills will be 50/50. That is what I will propose. I am sure this will be unacceptable to her, but its a start.
TH, i am handling this case Pro Se, I have all the documentation from the last D that never went through. I do not need to pay an attorney thousands of dollars to state to the judge what I can state myself. I have courtroom experience through law enforcement and I have done my research on the judge hearing our case. He does not like game playing and he is usually very understanding of the Father's rights.
The W already has a few marks against her as far as game playing, enrolling S in a school without talking with me about it, taking him to a therapist without my input, and the first postponement.
I have not heard a thing from her after this morning, I started to think a little more about the past communication, she asked the same thing about insurance last week, and the same answers were given. Like I said her inquiry this morning about insurance was her way of initiating contact on something that has to do with the kids and does not have anything to do with the discussion last night.
I am sooooo glad i did not engage in the rest of last night's texts, I was so ready to lose it with her, and it would have got me absolutely no where. I will call the kids tonight to talk to them before bed and text her tomorrow that I will pick them up in the afternoon and bring them to church for second service sunday.
The OW came down to my area and we went for sushi and to a little pub afterwards. It was nice and peaceful. talked about some people we havent seen or taled to in a while. We talked about each others situations, we are on the same page.
We are enjoying each others company, laughing about similar BS in our M's and its just nice to interact with someone of the opposite sex with no expectations and no hidden agendas.
I told her I am not looking for anything more than friendship at this time. she was glad i said that she feels the same way. She did say she is attracted to me, which I said the same of her and also we both agreed we are both still married and there is nothing wrong with what we are doing.
I guess even though i am doing well with my DBing I am not ready to jump into something emotionally or physiclly with another woman. It does not feel right, even with the pending D I am not going to do something that I will regret or for selfish reasons think it will help me move on. A buddy joked the other day and I dont want to offend anyone, but his statement was " to get over a woman, get under a different one" its a funny saying, but that is it.
During our first split I did just that, yes she had an affair, I was angry and felt F her, I am going to become "frank the tank" and let loose. I did that, and I can look back now, it wasnt that fulfulling then and i dont think iy is the cure now. I dont know if i am making sense but it is what I felt when I came home tonight, so I decided to post what was on my mind.
I was going to comment on John28s page but, i Figured I would jsut write that I have sent a text to the W asking where the kids will be around 3ish. Havent heard back, she better not start another gameplay today.
Have the kiddos now, W did start to play games, but I didnt engage. Just basically told her I would have the kids back at a certain time tomorrow.
I showed up at the daycare to get them, the first thing W said to me is dont let S play his game at your house. I asked why? she said he hit his teacher yesterday, and since I dont have any computer games or tv right now , I dont have anything to take away from him. I simply said ok, asked if she has spoken to him about it, she said yes. So As I was putting the kids shoes on, she just stood over me like a drill SGt standing over a cadet doing pushups, I didnt say anything, she started the umm umm thing, and just hung out while I got the kids ready. I think she wanted to talk a bit more, but whats the point? If she wants to talk she can call me.
So not much to report, she is her normal blah self, and I just keep being happy and all the other good stuff
My W is nuts. Dropped kids off this AM at her house she says you need to get your stuff out of the garage, she said she can't keep parking her car outside. She has plenty og room , but I said no problem I will get a storage unit. She then goes in to this and that about finances and stuff, I told her she has had 2 months to get her own car insurance. She said you never told me to, I said yes many times. She says how long do I have? I said just get your own insurance let me know you have it and I will cancel it. She then says I work so much that I don't know when I would have time to go through the stuff in the garage with you, I said we don't meed to go through it together, do it when u have time and we will settle it them.
She then says I was out last night and I met 2 girls who want to buy the horse riding training seat. I said good sell it. She then goes in to the fact she is scraping by, and that since we seperated how my income has seem to have gone up! I just shrugged my shoulders and smiled. She lost it, started getting pissy and saying stuff about the divorce and how everything will get saettled in court, and that the plan I ewill put together does not mean she will agree to it, I said we gotta start somewhere. She them got more pissed saying we haven't gotten along and its better if my stuff was out of her house. I said fine, she got mad told me to leave her house, I started to walk away and she began to shut the garage door on my head, I grabbed it and pushed it back up, she said you break it you pay for it, I gave her the finger.
10 mins later she sends a text, saying you agreed to not let S play games since he was grounded for getting in trouble at. School. He said you let him play. Iwrote back negative, he didn't, when I was in shower this AM he turned it on I got out and turned it off.
She then says we have gotten along so well up until thursday, "not true" and why am I so temermental lately, why are you so stressed what's going on? I wrote back I'm good walking into church.
What is going on with her? She lit me up and 10 mins later she is texting me all worried about me? She is the one who seems stressed, not my problem.
I wanted to punch her in the face!!!
Is she noticing more that I have dropped the rope and detached?
Any thoughts?
Sorry for typos I'm on my crackberry
She just sent a text saying text me when you get out of church, she says we need to have this conversation. I didn't reply. What conversation do we need too have people? I know its sunday bot I need help!!
Don't have a talk until you know what it is about and how you will approach it. Let her know you have plans until later and you want to know what you two need to talk about.
Exactly what coach says. Just text back, "I'm pretty busy today, but what do we need to talk about?"
Ok I will send her a text, I am out of church and talked with my brother for a while, not about this but other stuff. She knew I was going to the ranger/yankees game and she already had all these plans for the kids today anyway, so we dont need to talk about squat today. Great service at church by the way, I almost didnt go, cuz I was so enraged, but it helped calm me down and refocus.
This is what I sent:
I am out of church, changing for the game, what do we need to talk about? We both have plans today, so why dont we just do our own thing.
Next time leave all of this off.
We both have plans today, so why dont we just do our own thing.
It's antagonistic. She's likely to react like you just picked a fight when that's not what you wanted.
I have a feeling that this is not going to be as amiable as you think. She's trying to make you the villan but you're not playing along. She's having to improvise to get the story to match her version. Thus, the get your stuff out of my house and shutting garage door on your head. Be careful.
BS,
I am a little confused, what story is there to match? She did reply to my text, but asked if I had a roommate? The kids have their own room, and I decided to save some money and let another (buddy) who is a cop move in. he is going through his own break with his W and he needed a place. BUt I am not going to respond to that either.
Why does she pick a fight, i engaged a bit, but then walked away. then 10 mins later trying to get me to admit going against her, which I simply did not admit to anything. then she goes into asking why im stressed and i simply say i am not. I am done with this texting crap, I will call the kids later to say goodnight. This postponement in the hearing, I might just go ahead and lawyer up at this point.
Robx said she would go dark a bit for a while, then do something like this, I just thought it would take longer that a day for W to lose her temper again, I have no reason to be angry, but episodes like today make my mind wonder at the same time it makes me think more about who this woman is? cuz I dont like her very much.
Dsh, you're the easiest person for her to lash out at. Just let it roll off your back like you've been doing. I'm going to start calling you Robx II pretty soon...
Pin,
HAHA thats pretty good, I had the "i am not going to put up with your crap behavior" on the tip of my tongue but other words passed that phrase up. Im going to head out, will NC the rest of the day, well for eternity at least unless it has to do with the kids. As sh said what she wants to talk about, she stated earlier will be handled in court, so why talk about it now. Maybe her L is telling her, look this isnt going to be as clear cut as you thought, so maybe if you guys work out an agreement first it will be easier. Dont know, but I think getting a L involved might help at this point.
I used the "crap behaviour" term a couple of weeks ago, for my oldest daughter who's 8 going on 18. My wife turns and looks at me like I was speaking martian. I started laughing...
"The story" is in her head. She has to justify what she's doing in her own mind. You are not going according to her plan by being so agreeable. So, she has to lash out to get your negative reaction. That way you continue to be the bad guy for her.
As a woman, I can totally see what she's doing. You handling it the best that you can. Don't engage or give her the pay off that she wants. It will be very frustrating for her and she'll feel bad for doing it. That's why you'll get the "friendly" messages, "i'm worried about you", "you seem stressed", etc. But, she's not your friend and anything you say to her will come back to bite you.
BTW- call me Blue for short, not BS
don't want to give people the wrong idea
Thanks BLUE
better?
I got you now. So she keeps trying to re engage me by being nice, then the lashing comes. I think I will just say if it comes up, anything further can be handled by the L's. We can talk about the kids, but other than that let the L's and the courts handle it.....
here is what I am going to send W:
Monday - Wed with you, thurs - friday with me, weekend for you and then alternate this with you the next week, mon - wed with me, thurs-friday with you, weekend with me.
Its a 50/50 slit.
All school supplies, any activities ie; soccer, softball any sports or activities the kids are involved in split down the middle.
Clothing 50/50.
Medical 50/50
Dental 50/50
When they are with you any childcare is yours and vice versa. when they are with me If i need to have them in any chilcare my responsibility.
This is easy, and gives us equal time with the kids. No child support from you, none from me.
I have not sent it yet, will wait for some feedback, but i did tell her I would send a plan today, so I will send it by tonight.
Might want to think about insurance coverage for the kids as well, if that's not part of the Medical/Dental split you have.
Pin I have the kids under my medical ins. which I will tell her she needs to pay half their monthly premium and all copays and deductibles, but yes your right I need to spell that out.
Robx,
Not trying to highjack this thread, but may I ask you to consider reading my post and providing me with your valuable feedback?
Thanks, and again, sorry to interrupt.
I doubt she's going to go for this but it is a starting point and you should always ask for the max to begin with. That said your proposal feels like a lot of switching for the kids. Transistions are hard so you should try to minimize them. What if the person who had Thurs-Fri got the weekend?
I doubt she's going to go for this but it is a starting point and you should always ask for the max to begin with. That said your proposal feels like a lot of switching for the kids. Transistions are hard so you should try to minimize them. What if the person who had Thurs-Fri got the weekend?
That wouldn't work,
only one of them would ever get weekends with the kids?!
Yes it's a lot of switching, that's why I also offered the entire week plan as well.
In the end, do what works best for you and your spouse, make it fair for both of you.
Maybe I wasn't clear enough. I was thinking that you would trade who got the Thur-Sun time each week just as you would a weekend. So, one week he's get Mon-Wed and the next week he'd get Thurs-Sun. You can throw in a dinner in the off week if it's not enough time.
If you're going to do 50/50, I'm a fan of switching whole weeks.
LOL!
I think you're still not clear on this ;-)
You can't trade it,
If one person has mon-wed,
the other person has thurs-sun,
how will they ever trade?
The days each has would never change.
The same person would always have mon-wed, and the other person would always have thurs-sun, there are only 7 days in a week, to trade it as you propose, the person who has thurs-sun would have to take mon-wed as well on the following week for the other parent to have thurs-sun and they would also have to take mon-wed to do the swap as you propose.
Which in essence is a week + weekend each.
The reason for the transitions every 2-3 days in the beginning is actually to make it easier on the kids who wouldn't be used to not seeing one of their parents for 7 days.
I agree with the week + weekend after the kids got more used to the separation.
Now your confusing me ?!?!?!?! actually no I am good with my first proposal. Rob dont know if you are still on here but did you read any ofthe other crap that has happened over the last few days? I sent her a text asking her to let me know when I could call the kids and tell them goodnight.
Her response 15 mins later was
W: I dont why you are acting like this, you can call them anytime. Your attitude has changed so much ver the last few days.
I didnt respond just called and talked to the kids, I was on speaker and asked S to take me off I couldnt here squat. She kept staying close to the phone and coaching them on what to say. I am going to send the email tonight, should be an interesting response. BUt in general if her heart is in the right place and is concerned with me spending enough time with the kids it should be just that. 50 50 and the child support shouldnt matter, but i think she wants the child support, even though my CPA provided some ugly financials over the last 2 years which I gave to her attorney. The L probably puked, in the housing business and being a cop money has been ugly over the last couple of years, so it wont look and doesnt look pretty.,
lol. You're right Robx. I got my split day wrong. Where I live they've been big on 50/50 for years and have some really interesting ways to come up with it. I was trying to remember my kid's friend's schedule.
I haven't had a chance to go over all of it but I'll focus on the last part, they are your kids, you know what time they would go to bed, call them before bedtime and tell them good night, I don't think you need to ask her when you can call the kids, just call - she has confirmed as much, you can call them anytime, start doing that.
cool, I already did do that I didnt respond to hte text just called. I am going to send the email.
She sent a reply that says
No. U know why.
So I replied: what do you suggest?
At some point I will just tell her, its about the kids, not about money. She wants the child support. When it gets heated I will go Robx on her @ss and tell her the L's will handle it in court. She doesnt want to go down that road again, she got her @ss handed to her last time it will happen again. I will have my L send the transcripts from the first D to the current judge and he will see what I went through before, time to get my hands dirty.
So basically our emails went back and forth. She did not agree with my proposal, I simly said stop being self dealing, its not about money, lets focus on the kids. This was the last email i sent her:
Whats not good for the kids? not seeing their father is not good for them? or living in daycare while you work? Lets not get into a tug of war with the kids as a rope. The past few months we were living together, I left work that I was not receiving a pacheck for to get the kids, feed them and put them to bed as you worked. At the time you were the only one getting a steay paycheck, I did what I had to do for our family. But our kids need both of us in our lives as much as possible, it is not a monetary thing, the plan I proposed is plenty of time with you and plenty of time with their Father. I live 10 minutes from you and the school, so there is not really a road block in their life. We are getting a divorce, they need both of us to get them through this, spending 5 days a month with me is not healthy for their well-being and not for their self worth. What I propose is fair for our kids
While I wrote this and sent this she sent me another email:
Why is it when I try and have a personal relationship with you you still shove me away.
I am not shoving her awau I am trying to put a schedule together for our KIDS. Why does she make this about her. I am going to lose itsoon with her. I mention lets let the courts figure it out, and she does not touch on that. She continues to talk about "our" relationship. Am i being too forward with my wants? I express the kids interest and she goes back to a "friendship" type talk about us. I am not talking about us, I am not referring to us, my emails are about the kids, working a schedule and she keeps this sh!t up. I think I am dealing with an alien this board hasnt seen before, If I am wrong and you have dealt or seen this before, what do I need to do from here?
I have not responded to the last email, and she has not responded to mine. I will leave it until tomorrow but I need some advice here. I am lost on where to go....
Don't you love that "friendship" talk? I have not got there yet with my sitch but I am fully prepared to tackle that topic.
Friendly - yes.
Friends - no.
I dunno. Now that you have detached a bit, why not try sprinkling a little fun and charm in with the "I don't want to be your friend" talk?
For example, "I am abosultely certain that you are far too beautiful to have as a friend".
Flirting can be fun
What's the worst she can do to you? Divorce you?
I dunno. Now that you have detached a bit, why not try sprinkling a little fun and charm in with the "I don't want to be your friend" talk?
For example, "I am abosultely certain that you are far too beautiful to have as a friend".
Flirting can be fun
What's the worst she can do to you? Divorce you?
"Let's be friends with privileges."
What's the worst thing she can do to you?
Let's be friends with privileges."
What's the worst thing she can do to you?
That's funny, but... I think you want to convey some respect too
IRL, I am afraid that might sound a bit too much like "I just wanna get laid" at this point in his non-R, and I never liked the whole FWP idea anyway (doesn't work).
Here is an email I got this morning from the W;
We obviously cannot come to an agreement. Any further communications need to go through my attorney. Please do not contact me again. If you would like to set up some temporary visitation arrangements before Oct. hearing you can do so with my attorney. I will pick up S every day until the hearing unless other arrangements have been made through my attorney.
My response was this: please forward your attorneys info, glad you have the kids best interest in mind.
Yes I could have left the last sentence out, but here we go with another power play on her part using the kids. She makes me sick, I am really upset right now.
Yes I could have left the last sentence out, but here we go with another power play on her part using the kids. She makes me sick, I am really upset right now.
Hopefully I am not getting you mixed up with another poster when I offer this criticism:
It's not a power play. She already has the kids when she wants and you bargaining. She shut you down and refered you to her attorney.
She has an attorney. If I remember, you decided to do this Pro Se (or Im Pro Per).
She is prepared, and you are just behind the curve is all... despite your assertion that you don't need an attorney. I am thinking this to myself anyway.
And yes, the last line is unneccessary.
All this legal and custody crap is better handled by a third party so you can say the same thing if she breaches legal issues: "I have no idea. I'm not a lawyer, and that's what attorneys are for. Let's let them figure it out".
What do we usually say: No R talk, no legal talk (get an attorney to do that for you), go dim, and keep things cordial.
This battle over visitation is the downside of handling your own legal matters on points where you are not in agreement.
She's the one leading. She told you what you should have told her long ago.
Get a new visitation schedule ASAP.
Thanks guys, th you are not upsetting me. I am going to contact her L, I have already sent a message to my L about retainer I am going to put a stop to this crap.
I don't play along and she uses the kids this way, it makes me sick and ewill probably make the judge sick as well, this judge does not like games and especially using the kids as the bait.
So much for dbing for my M now, that is over with, all about my kids now.
Although I have not posted on your thread and haven't caught up on your sitch yet, I agree with Coach & TH...time to get a L ASAP. In fact, I would suggest retaining council before I would contact oc.
We were both pro per & when the ruling resulted in a 25/75 split, he retained a "super L" to represent him in a new hearing. In the time it took me to retain my L, his L was after me daily, wanting to engage in phone conferences, etc.
I ignored them all.
Just a couple of things I learned so far in the process;
-Mind what you say in any e-mail exchange, they can & probably will be used against you if it helps their case.
-Providing a log/calendar of times/events & any pertinent details means a great deal. I kept a separate calendar & just recorded the times of pick up & drop off, etc. in the box.
-Be prepared...research the process so you know what to expect. If the Judge has to decide, they will more than likely go with what the mediator recommends. The mediator typically makes a recommendation based on precedence. That's why it's so important to create & stick to a schedule that's close to what you're asking for, as the oc will claim you weren't that interested.
Take Care,
Sunny
Here is an email I got this morning from the W;
We obviously cannot come to an agreement. Any further communications need to go through my attorney. Please do not contact me again. If you would like to set up some temporary visitation arrangements before Oct. hearing you can do so with my attorney. I will pick up S every day until the hearing unless other arrangements have been made through my attorney.
My response was this: please forward your attorneys info, glad you have the kids best interest in mind.
Yes I could have left the last sentence out, but here we go with another power play on her part using the kids. She makes me sick, I am really upset right now.
Seriously I would have wrote her back this:
"...Without a formal custody agreement in place,
you can not legally stop me from seeing my kids or stop me from having them at my place, until a formal custody agreement is in place you can assume I will take them 50% of the time. No court has given you 100% custody of my children and no court has given you the authority to grant me "temporary visitation" as you see fit when it's suitable to you & your schedule. What you have you just attempted to offer me is illegal, contact your lawyer if you refute my claims. I am and will always be their father and it is in the children's best interests to have BOTH parents in their lives, not just a mother who works 2 jobs and lets the kids live in daycare most of the time - this type of parenting is not in the children's best interests. Keeping the children away from me is illegal when there is no custody agreement in place.
I will also remind you that the courts decided in my favor the last time we went through this process. Until a custody agreement is in place expect me to pick up my children on these days of the week from now on (xxx...) from now.
FYI I showed up at the first hearing that you decided to NOT show up for, I'm trying to move on with my life and I'm not holding back this d process, you are and I have no idea why since you filed for divorce.
As for your email about why I am shoving you away and why I don't want to have a personal relationship with you, is there any wonder why I wouldn't want to be friends with you? You are continuously controlling & manipulative, what kind of person would willingly keep their kids away from their father? I don't think I've been going out of my way to deny you access to the kids, how would you feel if this was done to you.
I get to choose who I'm friends with and I have pretty high standards when it comes to the types of friends I have, I don't have any friends who have treated me as poorly as you have and that is why I don't want to have a "personal" relationship with you so please stop pushing that issue on me.
I advise you to contact your lawyer and let him know that you are purposely keeping the children away from me when I have asked repeatedly for shared custody and ask him if you have the legal right to do this, I think you will find out your answer soon enough.
The children will be with BOTH of us from now on, if you need me to work on a schedule that assists with your work shifts, so be it, I can be flexible but I won't tolerate continuing with literally no access to my children."
I'm thinking he needs a lawyer.
I like your post robx, but I agree I think I need my L to set this up.
Still waitin to here from my L, I will get him retained and ask him to contact W's L.
Robx, in TX a parent technically can keep the kids from the other parent without any criminal violation. I have dealt with many custody issues, and the "cops" wont get involved unless a judge orders them to. I could show up to S school to pick him up at the same time as W, but I dont want any drama at his school, in front of him or anything like that. I did like your post, but I dont want to send her another email, I will do as she wished, and let the L's deal with it. i still dont think she is delaying the D, I believe it was delayed because of the case log. In any case, I am still somewhat fumed right now, and will only contact her by phone going forward and only when it is kid related before bed will be the phone call she will get and I will only talk to the kids.
In a way, i look at the brighter side, her email this morning, gave me more of a reason to further detaching and also re enforced what i dont like about her.
I feel the whole friend thing, whether they want to be with you or not, is to keep a piece of you in their back pocket, to pull out that piece of you when they need it.
Lets see how this goes for her going forward, "be careful what you wish for, you might just get it" keeps going through my head right now for some reason
feel the whole friend thing, whether they want to be with you or not, is to keep a piece of you in their back pocket, to pull out that piece of you when they need it.
You never know. Maybe it's a test? Maybe they are having problems detaching too? You never know what other people are thinking and feeling... unless they tell you, and even then... you never know.
TH,
I have thought about that angle as well, but obviously it hasnt worked for me, so I have done more of the Robx approach, which I dont think I can change now. It will be looked at as me following into her control more, dont you think?
I really hate this for my kids, my S told me on the phone last night, he wants me to come over and see his toy box he painted. I laughed a bit and said I would see it soon. How can anyone use their kids like this? I do think she is having a little trouble detaching as well, but I am going to hand this over to a L, which since the postponement has given me the chance to bring one in actually. So maybe its a blessing in disguise.
I have done more of the Robx approach, which I dont think I can change now
Maybe I am missing something.
I don't think you should even want to be married to somebody who is bent on divorcing you
How is that different? Just because you say, "Look, I don't want THIS anymore either", doesn't mean you can't be nice and even charming, and being nice and charming doesn't mean you are going to roll over and not do what is best for you or reward bad behavior.
The beauty of detaching completely, loving your own life, being grateful for every moment you get and working for a better life for yourself and your kids is... it opens up all of the options.
She wants to be grumpy, and if it isn't affecting you personally, it stops bothering you.
I can see there is some issue about the kids to work out here, but... we kind of saw that coming with the comments about your former "bachelor pad" (she telegraphed that intention), and that's why folks told you to get another place... so... now what is the reason?
You need to explore all of your legal options here. If nothing else, an attorney will help assure that you don't shoot yourself in the foot on child custody issues.
She has been out ahead of you for a while. She had made up her mind to leave and take the kids long before you saw what her plan was.
The solution for the immediate situation is to understand this and be better prepared, I think.
Very true TH.
Her being pissy doesnt bother me, so that part im good. The fact she is using the kids as a tool, gets me enraged. I spoke with my L, and will get the ball rolling tomorrow as far as my time with the kids.
Yes she has been ahead of me for a while on this, even though the bomb came beginning of July, after a few talks with some friends over the past month, I think it goes back to the beginning of the year. So as I said, her actions push me further away from her, and I want to make sure I dont shoot myself in the foot in regards to the kids.
The fact she is using the kids as a tool, gets me enraged
I don't know -- from what you have described-- that she's neccessarily using them as a tool.
It may be just as likely that her plan was this: "take kids, leave marriage, work out the rest as I go".
It seems obvious, especially in retrospect, that she planned on taking them with her and having as little involvement from you as possible.
Your job, Dad, is to be there for your kids. Do what you have to do within your legal rights.
I don't think you should even want to be married to somebody who is bent on divorcing you Exactly, if they really want out that bad, point to the exit, show them the door and do it with a smile.
Still waitin to here from my L, I will get him retained and ask him to contact W's L.
Robx, in TX a parent technically can keep the kids from the other parent without any criminal violation. I have dealt with many custody issues, and the "cops" wont get involved unless a judge orders them to. I could show up to S school to pick him up at the same time as W, but I dont want any drama at his school, in front of him or anything like that. I did like your post, but I dont want to send her another email, I will do as she wished, and let the L's deal with it. i still dont think she is delaying the D, I believe it was delayed because of the case log. In any case, I am still somewhat fumed right now, and will only contact her by phone going forward and only when it is kid related before bed will be the phone call she will get and I will only talk to the kids.
In a way, i look at the brighter side, her email this morning, gave me more of a reason to further detaching and also re enforced what i dont like about her.
I feel the whole friend thing, whether they want to be with you or not, is to keep a piece of you in their back pocket, to pull out that piece of you when they need it.
Lets see how this goes for her going forward, "be careful what you wish for, you might just get it" keeps going through my head right now for some reason
That's interesting,
here in Canada,
you can call the police and they will come with you to see your children if they are being kept from you by a spouse that has no formal custody agreement.
With no formal agreement in place,
she can't keep you from your kids and vice versa,
don't be afraid to stand up for yourself and your rights in this regard, anything less may be interpreted as acceptance of the current situation.
don't be afraid to stand up for yourself and your rights in this regard, anything less may be interpreted as acceptance of the current situation.
I looked up TX law on custody issues out of curiosity, and a mediator is likely to take precedence into consideration. You should get busy with that attorney. You need more time with your kids if it is important to you.
Robx and TH,
Trust me, I do not want this woman in my life right now. It is very different here, here its called a "civil standby" it depends on different departments policies by jurisdiction, but most departments will not interfere with the parents unless there is just cause, or probable cause that the kids are in danger. Or again, unless a judge orders a peace officer to take in their possession a child and deliver that child to the other parent or guardian.
I called W's phone around 7:50 which is usually right before the kids go to bed. W picked up and handed the phone to S. The first thing he said is he wants to come to my place. I told him your Mother and I still need to discuss that but i will see him soon. I could hear W in the background, and she just sounds pissed all the time now, the anger in her tone is, well her problem. But i do worry about my kids being around that negativity. I can only imagine what is being said to my kids about me. One of her comments in her emails last night was I was never there for them before and I am not now. Of course this is totally untrue and she is justifying her "story" with that remark. I am a good father and provider my kids are still my focus, so the next steps are get my attorney to contact hers and get a little aggressive. It is out of my hands, and she will bring this on like donkey kong.
I was trying to be cordial and nice. I helped her move, I fixed things at her house, I feel I have done things that a bitter person who's W filed for D would not have done. So other than not leading, which is very obvious I let her do the driving, what else have I done wrong lately? I have shown confidence in myself, I am chipper I was very upbeat with the kids tonight on the phone which I am sure I was on speaker. I am beyond Dbing for the M anymore, but I will continue to do it for myself and my kids.
I was trying to be cordial and nice. I helped her move, I fixed things at her house, I feel I have done things that a bitter person who's W filed for D would not have done. So other than not leading, which is very obvious I let her do the driving, what else have I done wrong lately? I have shown confidence in myself, I am chipper I was very upbeat with the kids tonight on the phone which I am sure I was on speaker. I am beyond Dbing for the M anymore, but I will continue to do it for myself and my kids.
I think you've answered your own question.
When something isn't working, try something different.
Listen to yourself. Is what you've been doing working?
John I was just posting on your thread. I think at this point, I just need to do what works for ME. Which is to go darker than asphault. I am turning the custody over to the L so that will be handled by a third party since the W, who said she new that I would fight her on custody, could have just worked with me. But now she is being her "woman hear me roar" and being a b!tch. She knows that the kids need to see me, and she is just being difficult. So I will do what I need to do for me, and for my kids.
TH,
Even her petition requested mediation prior to any trial. That is why I think its ridiculous the email she sent earlier about waiting until the hearing in a month, Does she think I am just going to not see my kids until then?
My attorney will call her's tomorrow and discuss the pending case. Any judge or mediator will look at her actions and email as vindictive. I am not abusive, I am not a felon or a scumbag. My kids are young but they can tell anyone how much they want to spend time with me. That is what I am worried about, the W is so focused on "winning" she has totally lost all compassion for our kids. is that the narcisism kicking in ? I think so
She is selfish, stubborn, bull headed and has a father who is an enabler. What else could a husband ask for in a wife? I just made myself laugh a bit, but seriously I hurt hearing the hurt in my S. My D is 3 and if she has a capri sun cooler and goldfish crackers to munch on she is on top of the world, so I dont think this has the impact on her like it does S. He is getting in trouble in kindergarten, after 3 weeks. This is an issue. I see it, but as many WA's say kids are resiliant, BS they know more than they get credit for.
I think its ridiculous the email she sent earlier about waiting until the hearing in a month, Does she think I am just going to not see my kids until then?
Yeah, there is some reason for that delay. I'm not trying to make you paranoid, DSH, but it still looks like you are playing defense, and you need to get out ahead of this because I can see that spending time with your kids is important to you.
Take care of the child custody stuff, and then you can afford to relax a bit more.
Your right TH, I have been on the defense, I am going to get started on the L today and the custody, my kids are very important to me, they need to spend time with me, this is not healthy for them to be kept from me.
Been working all day at the Sheriffs office. Went up in a helicopter and found a field where 93 pot plants were growing.So we landed called in the cavalry and yanked that sh!t out of the ground, looked for cheech and chong mearby, but no luck.
Not much to report, W sent an email this morning requesting some health insurance info, I sent it to her and that was it. I called her tonight to talk to the kids. Told S that daddy rode in a helicopter, and he was so excited. The last 2 days she does not get on the phone, she did have me on speaker but I didnt let it bother me I was upbeat and happy with the kids. L should contact her L tomorrow.
Had a good C session tonight, C thinks W could be bi polar with the way she swings back and forth with her anger and being nice. Who knows but she wont fix it, and I obviously cant. How is everyone else tonight? gonna watch sons of anarcy, great show its like sopranos meets hells angels!
Had a good C session tonight, C thinks W could be bi polar
I am not at all impressed with remote, heresay-based diagnoses.
Your wife has moved out, she is working two jobs, she is going through a divorce (that she is initiating). She's probably on some kind of emotional rollercoaster too. I'd tell my C to put away the DSM when it comes to second-hand reports on somebody he hasn't even had a session with if I were you
Good job on getting the L. Hopefully, you can let the Ls yabber to one another and get some reasonable movement on the CS stuff. At any rate, you aren't talking directly to your STBXW about this negative legal crap anymore.
All true TH,
Her attorney still hasnt called back. If she doesnt by Friday, I am going to initiate something that will make sure I see my kids this weekend, its already Wed and I havent seen them since sunday, this is the longest I havent seen them since they were born.
Her attorney still hasnt called back. If she doesnt by Friday
I have never got a Lawyer to call me back on a Friday ever. I am under the impression they don't work Friday thru Sunday.
TH, yes they work on their own time and dont give a crap about what is going on. I called and talked to the kids, S was crying the whole time wanting to see me, he hurt his foot today, and he is used to me being the one to help him brush it off, tickle him and get him back on his feet. He cried the whole time on the phone saying he wants to see me. I wanted to punch anything in front of me, my anger at the W went through the roof! I did not speak with her, D got on the phone and was so cheerful she is only 3 and doesnt know what is going on. SHe also said she wants to see daddy and come play in the park. I was on speaker ( of course) so the W heard everything.
I really hate this for me kids. I sent the W and email that says I have called your attorney, and I do not need yours or her permission to see my kids. There are not any court orders or documents that sate this. I will have the kids one night this weekend, I will let you decide which night. W do not use the kids as property, this is not fair to the kids to support your vindictive motives.
That is all I said, W knows that I am familiar with custudy issues. Does she not think I know the law? she is playing a game she will not win at. I am so pissed right now. My kids should not have to deal with the W's BS////
I'd really perfer you let the L do the legal talk from now on.
Going to read you your Miranda Rights.... well the part about "Anything you say CAN and WILL be used against you...".
TH,
Miranda rights are only used in a criminal case not civil. Trust me i see your point, but my email states she is using the kids as property, which the judge will not be thrilled with. The court looks out for the best interest of the children, and keeping them from a Father who has done nothing to harm or endager their children will not look good, again my opinion.
My kids need to see me, and I will do what it takes to make that happen, within my rights of course.
My kids need to see me, and I will do what it takes to make that happen, within my rights of course.
Good, once you get over this hump, we need to work on your Cary Grant impersonation
I will get over this hump, and then start on your cary grant work!!
DS
In the hundreds of divorces that I have litigated, while there were plenty where one spouse used the children against the other, there were far more cases where a mother of young children was overwhelmed with fear an anxiety about not having the children in her company for any extended period. That's a natural feeling in them. It is something that they have to get over, but if it is the case in your sitch, you would benefit from finding a way to help resolve that anxiety.
Often, in any type of litigation there are "other" reasons that prevent a resolution from occurring and the parties are reluctant to even divulge those "other" reasons for fear of showing weakness or having it used against them. I remember mediating a mass tort case where we had reached an apparent impasse. The impasse had nothing to do with the cases before us at the time. The defendants were afraid to commit too much money to the claims we were currently negotiating for fear of not having enough money to settle the rest of our claims. Once we solved that problem. We settled millions of dollars of cases in a few days.
Try to make sure you really know and understand the problem she has with visitation and try to resolve it. You can "take" visitation by court order, but the resistance and undermining may still remain. If you can demilitarize the issue, you will have much more success. Of course, if you can't, you need to do what you need to do.
MP,
I am not being difficult with her, I actually just went by S school and visited with him for about 20 mins, he was really happy about it. I need to make my presence known around my kids. He kept asking me if he could go to my house, which I just tell him mommy and daddy will work it out.
W is probably oeverwhelmed with anxiety, work and who knows what else, but isnt that part of this board's reality check? I will keep trying to work through the issues with the kids the best I can. THanks for your input.
I know you're not being difficult with her. This just happens to be an area in which I have a great deal of experience so I wanted to let you know of another common basis for this behavior. (Judges tend to be very jaded about this anxiety and just rip the band-aid off, though.) However, without meeting the parties, etc. there is now way for me to have a clue what is really going on with her.
I finally got my wife to spew last night so I am particularly drained today. It caused me to let go of my anger which immediately caused the hurt and missing her to well up. It just sucks.
I read somewhere that we habituate to good things rather quickly and to bad things rather slowly, and our expectations reflect this.
For example, one might imagine winning the lottery would make them happy, and if they actually win the lottery, it does make them happy ... for a very short time. Very quickly our expectation about being happy will shift back to our "normal".
When things are bad, on the other hand, we tend to expect things to remain bad for longer than they are likely to remain bad, and yet we tend to try to change these things more quickly if anything offers any kind of hope for change.
The "reality check" , as you put it, is that "No matter where you go, there you are" (Yogi Berra quote). If there's something fundamentally skewed about your perspective, it will tend to re-assert itself until you work through it.
This is why I ask folks that seem to be "stuck" with an expectation that they will always be unhappy to make those "gratitude lists". There are little excercises that can help shift our perspectives and bring them back into a healthier balance.
TH and MP,
I appreciate you guys keeping up with my sitch. I feel pretty good now, no anger or sadness about the W it has shifted to the kids now. I just cant imagine how she has built a wall around my kids thinking these actions benefit them by not seeing me?
normal people do not act like this.
normal people do not act like this.
They do act like this. You can pretty much fit into the zone that loosely defines "normal" and have a highly skewed perception.
There are perfectly "normal" people who go to work, pay their taxes, observe most of the laws (I am excluding traffic laws because the idea that one must follow them is very flexible in most of our minds and dependent on things like whether or not we are in a hurry or are being mindfully observant), and yet they have perspectives that aren't making them happy at all because their perception is so skewed, and yet they do nothing that is likely to correct it (because it is "normal" for them), or they impulsivly do things to try to correct it that just aren't likely to work out very well.
True,
I just need to keep up the PMA and get over this hump. like you said earlier. If the kids dont see me here and there for a short period of time it will not kill them.
TH,
Miranda rights are only used in a criminal case not civil. Trust me i see your point, but my email states she is using the kids as property, which the judge will not be thrilled with. The court looks out for the best interest of the children, and keeping them from a Father who has done nothing to harm or endager their children will not look good, again my opinion.
My kids need to see me, and I will do what it takes to make that happen, within my rights of course.
Have you picked them up and kept them for a few days yet,
nothing is stopping you. Your wife is apparently capable of doing it, nothing stops her, you are capable also, let her know that you're picking up the kids and just do it. Pussyfooting around with emails & texts will not get the job done.
Call her, "wife, I'm picking up the kids today after school, they will be with me today, tomorrow and saturday, I'll drop them off Sunday at noon."
Done.
True,
I just need to keep up the PMA and get over this hump. like you said earlier. If the kids dont see me here and there for a short period of time it will not kill them.
It won't kill them to not see you.
It won't kill them to see you either.
It's ok, you're allowed.
It won't kill them to see you either.
It's ok, you're allowed.
Yep.
I get it, the issue is D is always with the W, I could just pick S up from school. When W goes to daycare for work D is with her, SO I guess I can just pick up S and tell her I am doing so.
And will bring the kids back to her sunday.
The thing I worry about is if you don't handle this (calmly), that you are going to go to mediation, and the precedence is that you never spend time with your kids.
Good job on getting the L. I think you are just going to have to stop waiting on permission from your W to see your kids because that doesn't seem to be working out too well, eh?
Not well at all, When I call the kids tonight, I will have her get on the phone and tell her I am taking them tomorrow through sunday. I am out of town next weekend, and will take them another night next week.
Good, and when you are with them, make sure to take an active interest in things going on in their lives.
It's common in many families for the wife to handle things like putting the kids to bed, taking them to the doctor, registering them for school, etc, etc.
If that has been the case in your household in the past, then here's a 180 for you: you can become a better parent. Not just the fun weekend dad (though that's good too), but if an opportunity to really parent comes up... and you are paying attention.....
It's going to be winter soon, do they have new jackets? Winter clothes?
Good point TH, and after I left S's school today I sent his teacher an email stating I need to be copied on any communication that is sent to W. Any disciplinary action, good marks just anything. I think I will take them shopping for some new winter stuff.
A thought, should I even tell her I am picking him up? If she knew this she would probably show up earlier and get him, I think I should just get there early and get in line ahead of her, its kinda weird you pick them up in your vehicle and have a # on your visor so they know which child to send out, I have the number card and just think I should show up earlier than her. thoughts???
My thoughts? Boy, I think you should just say you are going to do it. Why can't you get there earlier than her anyway?
Let me explain my thinking. I have never been a parent myself. I have, however, dated divorced women with kids who had custody of those kids most of the time, and the number one complaint about their ex-husbands is usually something like, "He'll let them wear the same clothes every day they are over there, and baths are optional. The kids love him, and he takes them places and buys them toys, but he's just not a good parent".
This isn't always true of their XHs, but I am wondering if your STBXW is "momma bear", and that's why she is holding onto the kids: she's protecting her cubs?
So if they need more shoes, get more shoes. If they need long sleeve shirts, get some. Take an active interest in being "papa bear".
Gotcha,
Honestly TH, she thinks she is Mamma bear and tries to be mamma bear, she just isnt that good at it. The first S she had an A left, and I won custody of the kids and took care of them for 7 months until we reconciled. They were 2 years old and 4 months old at the time, she knows I can take care of them.
This is the second day, and still no call from her L. She knows me well, and since I was seeing the kids regularly up until 5 days ago, I was fine. So she decides to change it up, she knows I am stewing now about this. She is a great player at the game she loves to play.
she thinks she is Mamma bear and tries to be mamma bear, she just isnt that good at it. The first S she had an A left, and I won custody of the kids and took care of them for 7 months until we reconciled. They were 2 years old and 4 months old at the time, she knows I can take care of them.
Oh, I see ... said the blind man. So this changes everything. It's not pure moma bear, is it?
She almost lost them once to you. Now... it is becoming clearer.
I am going to re-read your thread.
She knows me well, and since I was seeing the kids regularly up until 5 days ago, I was fine. So she decides to change it up, she knows I am stewing now about this. She is a great player at the game she loves to play.
Sorry dude. I misread the sit, I think. I try to be somewhat empathetic to the STBX while telling everybody to take care of their kids and their own interest.
Yeah, show up early and phone when you are almost there and say you are picking them up and will return them Sunday.
TH that is a lot of reading....
She knows I am a good Dad, she is just trying to control me while we are apart and up to the D, she wants it all to go her way. Like everyone says here are sitches are different and alike. I have been doing a good job at the techniques, but my W uses a different approach, it makes her more vindictive and more controlling. That is my issue with her swing from one spectrum to the other.
I am trying to do the best I can with this, and I was fine with the D, still fine with it, I showed up at court ready to get it moving and now she is pulling this crap.
I called the kids last night, left a message they called about an hour later, talked to S and D for a while, had me on speaker like usual W was in the background sounding pissy, again like usual. D handed the phone back to W, I hear W say if your done talking to daddy say goodbye and hang up, what a example she is of showing the kids good manners.
Ran into a problem with getting kids today, one of our investors are in town from Canada, I totally forgot about our meeting right at the time I would need to pick up the kids, so I have to figure something else out this weekend, find out when they are at daycare and go get them and take them to lunch and shopping maybe.
Spoke to the kids last night, S didnt really want to talk to me, D was chatting it uP! I sent a text to the W about letting me know where the kids are later so I could come see them. Of course she hasnt responded, and I cant drive all over the place trying to estimate where the kids will be in the hopes I see them.
I do not know the W's schedule I just called the daycare and the W is not on the schedule. I could go by her house, but the drama she likes to play she could say I am stalking her or harrassing her. This is ridiculous. If she has the weekend off she might have taken the kids down south to her family's about 4 hours away. She wouldnt tell me, part of her game.
She is running this custody game, and until my L is involved I dont know how to get in the game and start winning. I am told let the L handle this, but for the last 3 days nothing has been done and I want to spend time with my kids.
No call or text from the W today. No clue where my kids are, she plays the game well.
She could be at her GF ranch for the weekend or at her family's place near the lake. Either way she is going dark on me now. Legally there is nothing I can do in my state, I will see my kids during the week when I know they are in school, I leave Thursday for CA for 4 days.
My Brother said, stop letting this get you so down, it is a short term issue, all this will work out and you will see your kids on a regular basis shortly.
I understand this, but is this another controlling manipulative action on W's part? it feels like it, as Robx said hit me where it hurts!!!! What am I doing that makes her keep pushing the knife in, I am not fighting her, I am not argueing anything other than custody, I basically gave her what she wanted, no begging pleading nothing, I am moving on? I dont get this at all.
Document, document, document. These games will only hurt her. Keep a log of your phone calls to your kids. Record dates and times that she keeps the kids from you. Give that information to your L.
Thanks Blue,
I have documented this, and it just makes me sick to my stomach. I want to see my kids, I am sure they want to see me, is that such a tough thing for her to understand?
people who are angry can be vindictive and spiteful,
she hasn't been treating you that great for the longest amount of time either, is this really so out of character for her?
This is why I said you can't wait for her "OK" to see your kids,
go get them from school and the daycare and have them at your place for a few days, let her get used to you not sitting down and doing nothing because that's pretty much what you're doing.
Thanks Rob,
I plan on doing this tomorrow, I will go get S and tell her they are staying the night with me, since I leave Thursday to go out of town. She hasnt been treating me great, but what does she have to be angry about? she is pretty much getting what she asked for and Im not stopping her? THats what I dont get, we were somewhat getting along, and now she is angry?
Finally spoke with the kids, S wants me to pick him up from school, D was crying that she wanted to stay at Daddy's house, I heard the W in the background saying your daddy and i are figuring it out. I am going to call her tomorrow and the L's that I am taking the kids tomorrow night, I have to work at sheriffs office the next 2 days after that and then leave for CA until monday. I need to spend time with them and they need to spend time with me.
I was upbeat on the phone and the kids enjoyed our conversation.
Kids need a Rock for a father.
So W and I had it out this morning, I wont go into too much detail, but I am getting the kids this evening. She is being difficult because she wants it her way, and I am not giving in. SHe says I try and bully her into custody arrangements, and I simply say it has nothing to do with "us" its in the best interest of the kids. She tried to say I was snooping on her because I called the daycare to see if my kids would be ther. I said If I cared what you were doing wouldnt I have called your other work? no, W I want to know where my kids are, I dont give a F*ck what you do, its about the kids.
She wanted me to agree to a long term custody, I said not until we both agree. She had her L type up a simple letter for tonight, she wanted me to do it, I told her I dont need to type anything if you want to waste your money have your attorney type it up. SHe tehn offered to bring the kids to my place, she asked why i wont let her see my place, I told her I dont care either way.
So what I got out of this: I did not put up with her BS, I am going to see my kids, and that is it..... I was not a doormat and I did not take her CRAP BEHAVIOR.
So what I got out of this: I did not put up with her BS, I am going to see my kids, and that is it..... I was not a doormat and I did not take her CRAP BEHAVIOR.
Sometimes ya gotta do what ya gotta do. Good, I am glad you are getting to spend time with your kids
So W and I had it out this morning, I wont go into too much detail, but I am getting the kids this evening. She is being difficult because she wants it her way, and I am not giving in. SHe says I try and bully her into custody arrangements, and I simply say it has nothing to do with "us" its in the best interest of the kids. She tried to say I was snooping on her because I called the daycare to see if my kids would be ther. I said If I cared what you were doing wouldnt I have called your other work? no, W I want to know where my kids are, I dont give a F*ck what you do, its about the kids.
She wanted me to agree to a long term custody, I said not until we both agree. She had her L type up a simple letter for tonight, she wanted me to do it, I told her I dont need to type anything if you want to waste your money have your attorney type it up. SHe tehn offered to bring the kids to my place, she asked why i wont let her see my place, I told her I dont care either way.
So what I got out of this: I did not put up with her BS, I am going to see my kids, and that is it..... I was not a doormat and I did not take her CRAP BEHAVIOR.
Love reading that part,
YOU are bullying HER into custody arrangements?!
Really, I think the whole part about her currently having them 99% of the time kind of negates that argument LOL!
You ask to see your kids and have them at your place and you continuously hear her say "NO!", you can't even call yourself a weekend dad, you haven't even had that much exposure to your kids recently.
But yeah you're a bully, you big meaner you!
Glad to hear you're finally picking up your kids this evening.
Thanks ROb,
She brought the kids over, walked around my place a bit, and asked if I have been tanning? I said yes, she said you look orange, I laughed and said well im not pale anymore. She then just kind of hung around not saying much, it was awkward for her i think, She then asked me to follow her down to get S backpack. I did and let the kids go to the playground. got the backpack and she asked if she could borrow some tools to hang some stuff. Here she is telling me she has all these neighbors helping here and there, but needs to borrow a drill from me? I didnt say much just that it is fine.
She was just standing there and then went to her car and sat in her car for a good 5 minutes, I played with the kids and ignored her she drove away.
All good on this end....
Thanks ROb,
She brought the kids over, walked around my place a bit, and asked if I have been tanning? I said yes, she said you look orange, I laughed and said well im not pale anymore. She then just kind of hung around not saying much, it was awkward for her i think, She then asked me to follow her down to get S backpack. I did and let the kids go to the playground. got the backpack and she asked if she could borrow some tools to hang some stuff. Here she is telling me she has all these neighbors helping here and there, but needs to borrow a drill from me? I didnt say much just that it is fine.
She was just standing there and then went to her car and sat in her car for a good 5 minutes, I played with the kids and ignored her she drove away.
All good on this end....
And that's how it's done SON!
;-)
Yeah I'm sure it felt awkward for her,
reality set in pretty quickly when she saw that you have your own place, a place where the kids will live with you when they're not with her, a taste of reality and how it will be, where she won't see the kids everyday, something she was willing to subject you to but feels very different when she experiences this feeling, especially since you won't settle for crap anymore, you won't take the dictated schedule she's been trying to push on you which is:
"....you never get to see the kids but you can call them and I can supervise you and put you speakerphone and censor anything horrible you might say to the kids about me keeping them away from you..."
I'm glad you're not angry, vindictive or spiteful,
she most probably acts that way to hurt you to see if in fact she can get to you, the best thing you can do is to wear a great big grin on your face that says "life is really good without you!", borrowing her the drill was a nice touch, make sure you remember to pick it up when you drop the kids off at her place the next time you see her ;-)
Nice job bro, enjoy your evening with the kids.
Thanks Rob,
Her mood this morning was anger, she seemed a little awkward as I said when she saw my place. Well put together, clean as a whistle and pictures of the kids all over the place.
Took the kids to a hibachi grill they love watching the cook in front of them...
I feel like I am in a good place right now, she sent a text and asked if we had some hooks in the stuff I stored in her garage. I replied" I dont believe so". So now she is being a bit friendly, did not put up her crap, but we agreed for today anyway on something so I could see the kids tonight. A good day for me.
Glad you got your kids, and the hibachi grill was a great idea!
thanks Pin,
We used to do that as a family, so the kids and I enjoyed it, and I uploaded some pics of the kids having a great time on FB, did I rub it in a bit on FB? yes Isure did, she still checks it so why not? its part of the GAL ya I am enjoying life a bit, without you!!! not you Pin the W, but your a smart guy you figured that out im sure. I see your a writer, check out my Mom's website coachwrite.com. She is a retired hollywood writer, she worked with Pacino and Sheen on projects so now she consults. Just a thought you 2 could probably bounce stuff off each other. She has bugged me to write cop stuff which I have plenty of, people love that sh!t. Just try living in a cops life for a few weeks, it isnt worth the pay!!!!
Hehe, my neighbor is a Sergeant. He tells me all the fun stuff. No way could you pay me enough to get into LEO...
Yes Pin,
It has its rewards but I dont do it for the pay. Had a great night with the kids, took S to school and walked him to his class. Took D to W's house, as I pulled up W was on the porch in her hammock. I handed her the drill and the bit set, she asked if she hung the Hammock right? I said ya you got the hooks into the studs behind the siding your good to go!
I didnt stick around long started walking back to my truck and the W said wait a minute, she ran inside and came out with some left over roast and said you can have this or give it to the dogs, I said thanks. She also asked if I had a vaccum, she said she was at the store and saw some on sale, I said I have one thanks though.
15 minutes after I left she sent a text, Thank you for the drill. I replied "cheers" thats my new reply
SHe then asked what day I was going out of town, she knows but I reminded her thursday. She then asked what are you doing for dinner the night before. I said no plans. She said do you want to come over for dinner so you can see the kids before you go? I said sounds good, she replied Ok.
I have turned down her invites before, but I thought this time I should go, and as TH says put on my Cary Grant. I was dressed nice this AM smellin good, lookin good. I feel great today, looking forward to my trip and I have that grin on my face that Robx and the rest of you helped me with. All is good on this end. Now if we can just get John 28 to get here, he would be so much happier.
Dsh...
Things seem to just keep getting better. It's been a tough haul for you, and it's not over by any stretch, but keep up with the PMA.
Thanks Pin,
THis site and you guys and gals have been such a big help, it took a few 2x4's and a lot of soul searching to get to wwhere I am I just wish some others here would focus and do what is best for them not just their M.
Get a call from the W while I am having lunch with my buddy who is getting married for the 2nd time in Vegas on 10/10/10. Ya I told him he is gay for agreeing to that crap. Anyway I didnt answer, she then sent a text saying its important, so of course i thought something with the kids, I stepped outside and called her. It had to do with health ffing insurance. I wanted to tell her not to tell me something is urgent unless at has to do with you or the kids in trouble, but I kept all that in told her I would handle the insurance issue and left it at that.
Handle what health insurance issue?
Get a call from the W while I am having lunch with my buddy who is getting married for the 2nd time in Vegas on 10/10/10. Ya I told him he is gay for agreeing to that crap. Anyway I didnt answer, she then sent a text saying its important, so of course i thought something with the kids, I stepped outside and called her. It had to do with health ffing insurance. I wanted to tell her not to tell me something is urgent unless at has to do with you or the kids in trouble, but I kept all that in told her I would handle the insurance issue and left it at that.
Why didn't you tell her?
You don't have to mean or argumentative when setting a boundary which is what you wanted to do there, it sounded like it anyways.
Sounds like to me, that when she sends a text to you and says its important, important to you means it has to do with the kids, important to her however may mean many different things. So.... you let her know otherwise she'll continue to do this and you will continue to complain about it.
It's ok to ask for what you want.
"Wife from now on, when you text something and say that it's important and need me to call you back asap, you make it sound like an emergency, something that has to do with the kids. An example is this health insurance issue, while important, not something that has to be discussed right at that moment. Important to me means something about the kids, definitely contact me about the kids. As for the health insurance, you could have actually just texted me that this was concerning the health insurance and let me know what it was you needed to contact me about. Please remember this for the future. Thank you."
and that's it.
You're not pissy, moody, angry, argumentative, you're just telling her straight what you want and not holding it in.
Absent further details, I am with Rob on this.
Sending a text saying only "It's important" following a call makes it sound like an emergency as if one of your kids was on their way to the hospital. That's nasty. If she can bother to text "It's important", then she can text "Call me about insurance".
I agree with you both, But you werent behind me telling me what to do! dammit you 2.
She sent a text asking if i was going to not show up tomorrow night like the last 2 times she has invited me, so i guess she is keeping track? I didnt respond right a way, but i sent as long as nothing major comes up I will be there, asked what time? she said we can eat around 7 but you can come over as early as 5 if you want to. I replied Ok, she then asked what I wanted for dinner, I said whatever. I am trying to make it not a big deal, and she seems to want to prepare it like its a big deal. She then sent a text that says if you flake again......I dont know if you will ever get to have my cooking again.LOL I wanted to say, is that a promise? but I didnt, I simply replied I will be there before dinner.
Like I said before, I have passed on 2 invites, and I want to see my kids before I leave for 4 days. I dont think she is trying to be nice for "us" I think she wants to be friendly to make this easier on everyone. Which I am fine with, but she will get the , I am not going to be your BFF speech, and I will enjoy my time with the kids and a free meal
You can still be charming, not put up with crap behavior, and not turn into wimpy man the gay boyfriend.
That's why I watch old Cary Grant movies
Let's experiment.
dont know if you will ever get to have my cooking again
"Say, you aren't planning to poison me, are you?" Big smile. Tone playful and confident.
Oh, and the BFF speach. Appeal to her own vanity and shared history if it comes up. Can we be friends? I can be civil for the kids, but just how many of my old girlfriends do you remember me inviting over to the house while we were married?
Thanks TH, I will remember the poison line, and yes I have thought about just that, the W gets very jealous, or used to anyway of what we call "badge bunnies" women that are just attracted to cops. Hell she got jealous because I got a twin peaks mailer, so I will be on my best behavior tomorrow night. She has still been texting me tonight, I havent responded. Asking things like what was that scent I liked we put in the lamp berger around the house? didnt respond she knows the answer, I am not available at this time ")
Thanks TH, I will remember the poison line,
The Zen of Cary Grant:
Remember this (good detachment required), if she gets mad when you callenge her, be amused by it
W: "Why would you say that?"
DSH: "I was just checking. A guy's gotta be careful, you know? And I can tell you didn't now. I'm a cop, ya know?". Just all smiles
And if you use something like the poison line, be sure to compliment her cooking in front of your kids
Think of playing with your cat and a piece of string
Again, timing, knowing your audience, etc is important, but the most important thing... playful, confident, and unflapable, and you don't cave into her demands. Cary Grant wouldn't do that
TH,
have you ever seen Hitch? you could be the mentor for a school on how to handle women like Cary Grant, classic.....
Well,
Went to the W's house at 6, she opened the door and said " this is unexpected" I said Dinner? remember? she said thats tomorrow night, I said no I leave tomorrow morning. She had the most confused look on her face. She then said I just made lasagna come in. So I ate, its was good, spent a the rest of the time with the kids. W and I didnt interact much, she asked me to look at her dishwasher, which i did told her whats wrong with it and to call her landlord. I walked the kids to the park and pushed them on the swings.
Took them back to W's house, said I have to go pack, told the W I will call the kids periodically from CA, she asked when I get back, told her midnight on Sunday, she actually asked if it was midnight Texas time? what the f*cks the difference? LOL!!! but i just said yes.
36 hours ago she was asking me to come over for dinner, 24 hours ago she was texting me about what to make and that I better not flake. As I have posted many times, her memory lately is terrrible. I was upbeat with the kids, looked good, and while I was there a few of her female neighbors stopped by, and I have to say were "checking me out" I can only imagine what the W has told them about me, I am sure its been all good things! Yes I still make myself laugh. I did kind of feel like a moron, but she is the one who cant remember what day it is, so I took the time to see the kids. She seemed very blah, not happy not sad just really no life in her eyes. But I am going to enjoy my trip. I will bring my laptop to journal.
She's probably stressed out. Stress is a killer for memory. Hell, the last three months have been such a blur, it's hard for me to pin an event to an actual date.
Enjoy your trip!
Stress is a killer for memory.
Ego driven crap is bad for mindfullness in general.
Always worrying about the future and past? Where the heck are your car keys?
Brain tumors and alzheimers are bad for that too. Ask her to draw an old analog clock with hands and numbers on the face (test for senility--smile--and brain dysfunction. People with severe problems can't draw them correctly--numbers out of sequence, all bunched together, etc).
I dont know what the hell is going on with her, she is mental. I will enjoy my trip Pin Iwill eat a double double for ya!!!!
What city in Cali are u coming to dsh?
flying in to LA I went to westlake high in thousand oaks lived in Laguna Niguel as well.
gotcha, im a lil south of u then. gonna be nice to hit up some in n out, huh? I love their shakes too, man. Have you noticed the hidden references to bible passages in their wrappers, cups, etc.?
Ya I have read a lot about the family that started the business. They have dealt with fortune and tragedy. But they are not a family to follow the typical sellout lifeline. They have built a great business on hard work and faith, I not only enjoy the food, who wouldnt, but the way the business is run is impressive. I almost went to work for long Beach PD when I was younger. I have been asked to do a lateral transfer TX law and CA law are very similar.
That's real interesting about the family that founded them. I will check it out (google). So you might be moving back to Cali? How will that impact M/DB sitch? What's timing, etc.?
No not moving back to Cali, I miss things about it, but I have too much here in TX, kids and biz need to stay here. I could get a LE job in CA, but I cant leave my kids. I have a lot of contacts in CA passed LSG resume on to some of them since he was looking for work. My mom is still in the hollywood connection she used to write for Sheen and Pacino, and a bit of writing for Bill Cosby, she is retired and my parents are on their ranch in Montana, but she still consults and does ghost writing.
No not moving back to Cali, I miss things about it,
And let me guess... 43 million people, traffic jams, and unreasonable real estate prices are not among them.
Left CA in 1995.
Things I miss: being able to be in the mountains or at the ocean within a short drive, the Giant Redwoods, the diversity of the Bay Area, the Central Coast (particulary Cambria/San Simeon).
Worth a visit every now and then.
TH,
Hit that one on the head. My house In laguna i purchased in 96 for 385k, sold it in 97 when I moved to Denver for 470k 8 years later it was worth 1.3M on Zillow. Ya the real estate there is ridiculous. The family had a house in Big Bear which was a nice get away. But yes worth a visit from time to time.
Hi all,
Had a blast in CA, glad i got the hell outta there, 113 degrees today there and 72 in dallas go figure. Spoke with the kids while i was there and got them gifts. W didnt text call or anything just sounded very moody and down in the background like usual, Have our rescheduled first hearing next thursday, which my L, her L and her both think I am still pro se, will show up at the hearing with me, should be interesting. then 2 days later I am off to vegas for the wedding. Dark, N/C unless it has to do with the kids and enjoying my freedom. Is john really adding about 3-4 pages a day on his thread? so not much has changed there I guess.
Unfortunately, yes, there are 3-4 pages a day added to my thread
Drama
I sent a text to the W about getting the kids tomorrow. She wanted me to get the same paperwork as before. I told her I would modify previous paperwork and initial but not going to rewrite it. She said ok. She started to ask me about my trip, I kept it short, she kept prying and asking kept it short and polite. She keeps prying and I am short. She has no business knowing my business going forward!!!
Just put the kids to bed, its kind of late for them but they were excited to hang out with me. I picked them up at W's house, I kept my sunglasses on, and did not pay much attention to her. She kept looking at me, and just standing there, I said bye and started to put the kids in my truck. She came down to my truck and climbed in the back seat to give them hugs and kisses. She seems to always try and get my attention when I get the kids, but I dont react I am like the mighty OAK!!!! haha ya I am still attracted to her, she is a sexy pretty woman, but when I get all mushy like that, I think about all the crap I have been through and get strong. I dont know if its self taught or a natural reaction but It gets me through my interactions with her.
Still dark other than the kids, still N/C other than the kids. She is the only one who iniates any other interaction outside of the kids, I do not engage to all, some I do. So I guess I am being friendly but also not being her ear constantly.
She doesnt ask what I am doing, and I dont ask what she is doing. I huess we are both accepting this and moving on.