I thought it was maybe time to start a new thread as my old one is getting pretty long. I don't know how to link my old one, so here is a paste and copy version of my original sitch:
Thanks to all who replied and sorry for not including enough info! Here is the short version:
married for 11 yrs together 14
4 kids-twin b-9, g-6, b-3
W on school board 4 yrs, never a problem. 9/08, she started staying out after sb meetings and having "a few beers". nbd. Started getting home later and later, 1:30 am. Any time a school function she would do the same.
We would drive separate and she would stay and help clean up and then call at 10:30 or so and say "going to have a few beers". Some nights would come home and be very horny. After one sbm, the wife of another sb member called my house around midnight asking if W was home yet bc her H was not. I said no and laughed about it saying they probably just lost track of time. Well, the seed was planted then and there.
Finally asked her if she was seeing someone after she went out after kids x-mas program 'til 1:00 am. She was shocked, how could I think that, no I'm not, I love you, just nice to go out without the kids and talk with adults. OK. The following months, nothing changed, still stayed out late, I withdrew, dreading the meetings, didn't stand up for myself, made her initiate sex, and she did but my heart and mind were elsewhere.
Summer time-new school superintendent. Volunteered to help at school during summer(she works part time) Lots of one on one time w new super. One Sat in late Sept. she comes home from work and says she is going to a poker run at a local bar, her brothers and sisters and friends are going to be there, can I watch the kids. She forgot I had Dr. appt, no I can't watch kids. She called her mom and took kids there, said I could come up if I wanted to or I could go fishing or do whatever I wanted. I said it would be nice to spend time with her without kids that we didn't do that enough.
She said to call her when I was on my way, which I did and she didn't answer. Left msg asking where to meet. She called back while I was getting gas and left msg where she was if I wanted to come or I could go do something else if I wanted. When I got there, talked to her family, they had not seen her in a while, finally found her outside with new super who lives an hour away.
I figured this was why she didn't want me to come. Stayed for ten minutes and couldn't take it any more. Tapped her on the shoulder and told her I didn't feel good and was leaving. She didn't get up and ask what was wrong and I left. She called a few min later and asked if I was going to get the kids. I said no and hung up. She came home several hours later, drunk, with the kids and went right to bed. Two days later she asked what was wrong. I said I felt like a third wheel with my own wife.
Why did she invite him and not me. She just mentioned it at school and forgot to tell me, I don't like hanging around with her fam and friends anyway, she said. She swore nothing was going on and had great make up sex. I looked at her cel phone that night for the first time and there were lots of calls to and from his cel and lots of txt msgs. Nothing too personal but more than just "sb business".
The next fri. I was going on school trip with kids and she told me i didn't need to go there were enough parent and to save my day at work for something else. OK. I picked the kids up that night at my sister's house. The kids asked why I didn't go, I said bc i had to work, did they have a good time? Small talk. Then they asked why mom rode with super. I said I didn't know, no big deal. That nite after kids were in bed I asked her what the hell was going on.
She said he asked her to ride and then talked about his DIVORCE and how she was holding things up bc she couldn't get over AFFAIR he had a couple years ago. He just needed to vent. Are you kidding me? She said don't you trust me, I said don't you see the sitch you are putting yourself in. We're just friends I would never do anything to hurt you or the kids. The following months nothing changed, lots of calls and txts, sometimes at 1 or 2 in the am. Asked why he would txt her at that time, she doesn't know will tell him not to but how dare I accuse her of anything. After making love one night I told her that I wish she would stop the sb and she threw a fit. I am not in love with you anymore, how can you not trust me, I will always love you but I'm not in love with you. Back and forth it goes. If I came home from work and she was in a bad mood, I was in a bad mood and I've read enough in here that I have started to act as if all is well with the world.
She has brought up separation twice and then said both times that was to get through to me that she was not cheating and she didn't really want that, that we would work thing out but it would just take time. Will not consider marriage couns. I have talked to our priest and have started taking anti dep meds. I'm at the end of my rope. She insist on kissing goodbye and goodnight but there is no I love you and no touching, just a kiss like I would give my sister. When I have tried to leave without a kiss she throws a fit so I do it just to save a fight even though I want to hold her so bad it hurts.
We are still living together and talking a little better lately, but she refused to talk about anything saying it will just take time.
There's the not so short version and I'm sure I've left some thing out, but you get the idea. Sounds common I'm sure but I NEED HELP and IDEAS!!! I don't want to lose my family.
Thanks for reading and listening and please help!!!
Obviously, a lot has changed since then. I was a complete wreck when I first posted her.This place has been a
great help to me. Thanks to all who have taken the time to post. I have learned a lot and continue to learn not only how common most of these sitch's are, but how much work I really need to do on myself.
Maybe the most important thing I have learned is to stand up for myself and my family. Be a leader. Don't be afraid of my W. Thanks again to all who have helped me learn the hard lessons. I know I have kind of quoted Coach here, but don't mean to minimize the other help I have got from complete strangers who have helped me through the toughest time in my life.
Time to move ahead with whatever comes my way. I can handle it.
Looks like this was your last thread:
Help With a Plan 
Thanks very much, R2C! I appreciate the help.
Okay, question about the next phase with my relationship with my W and our M, S, or D.
I am detached enough that I will be fine with either outcome. Of course, I would prefer a new, better M with her. That would be best for she and I and our four children.
I have noticed that it took some people filing for D to wake their spouses up. Some people hang on for years making changes in themselves and living life to the fullest but not making a move to end things. Sometimes, the WAS sees the changes and comes around. Coach and Greek for instance. An inspiring story to be sure.
I have made changes in myself and know there is more work to be done. I still make mistakes and am not, sometimes, as "happy" as I should be around my W. I do tell her thanks for coming when she does something as a family. A lot of other things that I took for granted I make sure and mention, also. It still seems as though she is not putting forth any effort, yet she won't leave or do anything she has threatened. Home life is still a roller coaster. The difference is my reaction to her. Like I said, I know I'm not always successful, but I don't let her get to me like I used to. I let her be and carry on like all is well with the world.
That being said; I know in the past I was told not to tell her that I went to see a lawyer. I have the name of a different one who I would like to go talk to. Is it time to follow through with what I told her a while back that if she won't leave and file, that I will file myself?
I have made another C appt. for myself in a couple of weeks. I will tell her I am going and ask if she would like to make an appt. for herself or go together again. I don't know what she will say since she pretty much told the MC she was done the one and only time we did go.
I know we could do this. I have seen or heard nothing of the OM for a month or so. She has a board meeting this coming Mon., so we'll see how that goes. I am just sick and tired of living in limbo. I am strong enough, now, to do the heavy lifting. I want to push myself and the M one way or the other. It is obvious she is fine with the way things are. I'm not.
Is it time for me to tell her I'm going to a L or continue to stick it out while setting boundaries? She has respected some things and others she has excuses to why she didn't.
Please forgive me if some of this is redundant, but I have screwed up so many times in the past that I don't want to mess it up more that I have.
Something has got to give.
I have a hard time with her being the one who requested that the two of you go to MC, but then during the session she tells the counselor "I'm done". What's up with that? If that's the case, why did you suggest counseling, woman?
Quiet with regard to the OM doesn't necessarily mean anything. It could be she is being more careful with the communication. I got my hopes up in this way myself, all for naught.
I don't see her doing anything else without prompting from you. If she was serious about counseling and applying the lessons learned there, it would be pretty obvious to you.
She won't file, either. A lot like my W. Doesn't like the marriage, but doesn't have the guts to end it, and doesn't want to do anything to improve it. There's really only one course of action then.
pigskin,
What is the course of action?
I have a hard time with her being the one who requested that the two of you go to MC, but then during the session she tells the counselor "I'm done". What's up with that? If that's the case, why did you suggest counseling, woman?
I suggested it about 6 mos. ago and she wanted
nothing to do with it. It took me exposing things to her parents and brothers and sisters and her throwing a fit about my doing so for her to bring up us going to MC. BTW, she told the counselor when I told her family, that was when she lost all respect for me. Anyway, I always had the feeling she was just going to be able to say "she tried".
Quiet with regard to the OM doesn't necessarily mean anything. It could be she is being more careful with the communication. I got my hopes up in this way myself, all for naught.
I am well aware of this.
I don't see her doing anything else without prompting from you. If she was serious about counseling and applying the lessons learned there, it would be pretty obvious to you.
I guess this is my main question. How much prompting? How much pushing? Do I just go ahead and retain a L and file myself?
I want to do things right. I'm not afraid of losing her but don't want to push her farther away, if that makes sense.
Thanks, as always for the reply, Pigskin. I hope things are well with you.
pigskin,
What is the course of action?
Start the process of dissolving the marriage.
I don't see her doing anything else without prompting from you. If she was serious about counseling and applying the lessons learned there, it would be pretty obvious to you.
I guess this is my main question. How much prompting? How much pushing? Do I just go ahead and retain a L and file myself?
I want to do things right. I'm not afraid of losing her but don't want to push her farther away, if that makes sense.
Thanks, as always for the reply, Pigskin. I hope things are well with you.
What I was getting at was that you will likely have to drag her kicking and screaming into anything that smacks of reconciliation. It will be of no use.
How much prompting? I would say none. If you see a stalled situation, call BS on it. She has nowhere to go, so of course she wants to string you along as long as possible.
Perhaps MC was the bone she threw to you to buy time. Tell her "Look, I am not going back into fence sitting mode. We're either working on piecing this marriage back together or we're working on dissolving it. I'm not willing to settle for a 'two ships passing in the night' relationship like so many other marriages. If you don't want a healthy, loving marriage with ME, then lets get to work on the legal stuff."
Well, I tried starting a new thread on 6/9 but kept getting traffic on my old one. It is now locked so I have no choice. Thanks to all for following along!
Journaling;
Not much new going on. W is possibly taking some baby steps. She has not said anything about the R, but some of her actions indicate she may be trying. Or, she may be playing nice to see how long I will continue to put up with it. IDK.
For instance, she will txt me when she is leaving work from her waitress job she got a couple of weeks ago. Fri. and Sat. she was supposed to work until ten and she called both nights saying it wasn't busy and was coming home.
Sunday, she got home from work @noon and the kids and I were still at church. We had dinner at the hall for our priest who is retiring. When we got home, she asked if I cared if she went to her mom and dad's to check their garden.(They are on vacation) I said, no problem. She took the twins and I stayed home with the two little ones.
When she got home, she started making supper. I asked if I could help. She said she had it under control. So, while she was cooking, I set the table and got everything else ready. We made some small talk and when I was done I went outside to play with the kids. We all ate together, with some great fresh tomatoes and zuchini, and had a pleasant time. Afterwards, I helped clear the table and then went back outside.
Later, after we put the kids to bed, I came in the living room and told her good-night. She asked if I was going to bed so early. I just said I was tired, and was going to read for a while. She said good-night and I went to bed and she took her usual place on the couch.
So.....I know what I have to continue doing. I don't want to file for D simply because of the money involved. That being said, I am ready to do so. I'm sure she doesn't think I will go through with it and it does have her worried. She went crying to her sister worried that I was going to "try to take the kids from her." Why would a mother who has done nothing wrong be scared to lose her kids? My L suggested giving her a couple of weeks to digest things and then filing if she had not commited to rebuilding our M. We'll see. We have not had any R talks. Tonight she has a school board meeting so we'll see what happens after that.
Hanging in there, and starting the hard work.
W called and asked me to take off the day of the twins' b'day. It is in Aug. and she wants us all to go do something.
Not that big of a deal but she has not included me in anything in the last 6mos.
I realize this is happening since I talked to a L. If I back off, she will, too. I have to keep moving forward and continue doing the right thing for me and my kids.
Just journaling:
W got home from school board meeting at midnight. She said she txt me that she forgot to tell me she had a meeting and I said I left my phone at work, didn't get txt. When I got to work this a.m., there is one from her at 9:40 saying-meeting is over going for a beer.
Just adding this to the archives in case it may make a difference somewhere down the line.
W just txt me at work.
"So, obviously you r pissed once again. Joe and Jim wanted to talk to me last night after the meeting so we went for a beer. I txt you to tell you that only this morning when you left so early did I remember you left your phone at work."
I waited an hour and just txt back
been really busy here. boss is off today and asked if i could come in early. i have no idea what time you got home i was in bed at 10:30.
I should have come here to ask for a better response but I guess it's good enough.
She makes plans with you for August, then goes out as usual after the school board meeting. Then seems concerned that you are upset.
I guess two out of three ain't bad. Not sure if there is anything to be discerned from this.
I think it was a good answer. Are you pissed? Did she cross one of your boundaries?
I'd better leave the rest for the pros.
Hang in there IDU. This is getting really interesting for the both of us.
Not sure if there is anything to be discerned from this.
Same here. I guess I'm still looking too hard for what Coach says are "missed opportunities". If I am detached for real, it doesn't matter to me. If she is trying, she has a long way to go. I didn't make a big deal of it and I won't when I get home tonight. In fact, I don't plan on bringing it up at all.
I know, and she knows what needs to happen if she plans on working on things. I don't want to overlook anything but I don't want to jump up and down for joy over nothing, either.
"So, obviously you r pissed once again.
here's one right here
Do you have a boundary in place about her going out for beers with other men?
She's mind reading and telling you how you feel and think.
Lead
The two other men she said she was with were the school board pres. and v.p. Maybe to talk to her about her and the super's behaviour. I'm sure I will find out.
I'm sure I was not specific enough on my boundary about this. I told her I am not okay with her staying out after 1:00 am and not calling me and telling me where she was is not acceptable to me. She did txt but claims she forgot I left my phone at work.
So she did respect the boundary somewhat. It's my fault for not taking a tougher stance as usual.
The only leverage I have as far as consequences are that I will file for D myself. It did scare her that I went to see a L. Obviously, not enough.
I will tell you what is happening..
She IS interested in someone else. You just can't or don't want to admit it. This is what women do when having an affair..
They tell you they "forgot" to tell you about a meeting..
They call you up the DAY that they are going to be around their affair partner and they say things like.."hey, take a day off in August for our kids so that we can spend the day together"..
This is guilt doing these things.. THINK about it.. Suddenly she is asking you to take a day off right out of the blue.. the same day she has another board meeting and of course it is Jim and Joe that are at fault because they "asked" her to go have a beer..
Stop being in denial about what IS going on... It is only hurting you. Setting "boundaries" isn't what this is all about...
There is only ONE boundary here.... And you need to focus on THAT boundary and that boundary alone.. Your wife is going out to bars meeting other men.. 2+2=4... Always has always will. AND you are ALLOWING it. The attitude should be this..
"you can go out and be with anybody you so choose. You are totally free. However, you can NOT have me too. End of story. IF that is what you so choose, then I want you to find another place and move out. The sooner the better.I am not interested in being with a woman that is my wife going out to bars and drinking with other men. I know that seems old fashioned, but my mind is made up. Please find another place to live and I will start divorce proceedings right away"..
Then do it.
Thanks for telling it like it is, gooch.
I KNOW she is interested in someone else. The super.
I knew about the meeting, she has it written on the calendar. She thinks I don't pay attention to it.
I don't think she is "going out to bars meeting other men". This all started with going out after the school board meetings and escalting from there because I was too scared to put a stop to it a year ago. Of course, the could be more than one OM. I have been wrong before.
"you can go out and be with anybody you so choose. You are totally free. However, you can NOT have me too. End of story. IF that is what you so choose, then I want you to find another place and move out. The sooner the better.I am not interested in being with a woman that is my wife going out to bars and drinking with other men. I know that seems old fashioned, but my mind is made up. Please find another place to live and I will start divorce proceedings right away"..
Then do it.
I KNOW.
I get so close to taking the leap. It's what I have to do.
Be strong IDU.....be STRONG!!!
Joe and Jim wanted to talk to me last night after the meeting so we went for a beer.
Words out about your wife and your marriage. looks like the ducks are starting to line up...
IDU,
I am with you and support your efforts with your family.
I did not think one OM was possible, but I am finding there may be OM2 as well. It is something I have to consider, and the evidence is mounting. I think she had an EA before OM1. It all comes out.
I am not trying to be negative or discourage your efforts.
Just always be open to what is happening around you with your W.
You will be okay, and what is going to happen will happen. You are so much a better person and able to deal with anything that happens since you first started posting.
Take care of yourself!
Joe and Jim wanted to talk to me last night after the meeting so we went for a beer.
Words out about your wife and your marriage. looks like the ducks are starting to line up...
I was thinking the same thing. People have noticed it but have said it is "none of their business." It would be nice to have some intervention from her own peer group.
Of course, they could have just went out drinking. Or she was with the super again and came up with that as an excuse. Either way, it doesn't change what I need to do.
I have always been somewhat upfront with you, IDU, maybe to the point of being crass for an Internet bulletin board, but if I knew you as a "person" and you were telling me your story I would say they same things to your face, like it or not, as you seem confused over your wife's behavior and the questionable intentions of men who buy her drinks.
I read this from you in another post,
I agree with you as far as feeling like we are missing something. The whole "I love you but I'm not in love with you" crap just never really sat very good with me. I understand the theory behind it; they aren't attracted to us, they don't respect us anymore. We have to get that back. But what if they are stuck in this fantasy land and anything we do doesn't matter? The financial realities hit home and then they sweep them aside. It is maddening.
...
She started acting like a teenager, like you said; dressing sexier than she ever had, going out drinking and partying, calling in sick to work because she was hung-over. All the signs were ther and I would not call her on any of it. If I did, it was weak, like 'don't you think you should come home a little earlier' something like that. I didn't understand about boundaries. I thought the boundaries were automatically there and understood. They always were for me.
and although I am not your wife, nor am I a woman, maybe if I type you will find something.
I can relate to your wife. I know exactly how it feels to "love someone" but not "be in love with them," to be 40-somethingish and have the drive and vigor of a 20 year old and love to go out partying and learning about new people. I think the best way to explain it is, if you can remember being young there was a euphoria associated with doing things, everything was new, the mundane could easily be spiced up. Life was a fantasy land because there were no bounds. You were not limited by the fact you were not a billionaire, because if you wanted to be one you just acted like one until you got bored of that and worked something different into your personae. If you wanted to do something you did it; for who knew what tomorrow would bring. It was really about excitement, having fun, and getting laid. It still is.
You can read about "love chemicals" and PEAs and the sketchy scientific explanations some pharmaceutically funded scientist gives for their rationalization, but all that doesn’t mean a damn thing if you are not on the receiving end of it. Right? Someone's dopamine levels are high and the pissy BO smell you really can't detect makes people around them horny. It might be real; it might not be. (Good luck figuring out those enzymatic pathways ... Horny Goat Weed is on sale at
http://www...)
Same goes for "anything" you do. It might matter; it might not. If you need to affect someone like that you are losing control and understanding of yourself. Why would someone want to spend their time trying to figure out why someone does or says one thing or the other but not this or that? When there is a whole great big world out there begging to be explored by you, exciting, fun, sometimes a little sexy. My time is limited. If you are not on the boat at 6 I am sailing off without you.
Realize, you can slip in the shower and hit your head and be found tomorrow, naked, blue, stiff and water logged and what did it really amount to? An insurance policy and a trust fund for the kids to drink there way through college on?
That’s one way of looking at it. Then there's love. Many, many, many people on this site think love is the most important emotion. I don't. I like winning. I am addicted to adrenaline rush. I love the way my ears ring when I play my guitar real loud or race a car with headers. I thrive on fear of the unknown. When I was younger I would mountain climb with my wife just to ski down from some ridiculously dangerous height just because. I learned a lot about myself getting lost, hurt, almost dying. I never grew out of that.
Call me selfish, egotistical, an ass, I don’t care. My wife could fall out of love with me and it really doesn’t matter, as long as she is happy. I want her to be happy. (I filled her tank last night just in case. I would hate for her to be stranded on the side of the road, out of gas and blaming me.) I will be happy no matter what.
I realize this does not explain your wife but I hope it helps you more than another fish story.
Thank for the well thought out reply, Steve. It does help and I appreciate it. I don't mind anyone being crass with me but I never took it that way. I know I am putting off what needs to happen.
I know I have tried to explain it before, but don't the "rules" change when there are kids involved? I get what you're saying about excitement and challenges, having fun and getting laid. Not to say that is out of my system, but don't a persons priorities change? I'm not only looking out for myself anymore. I have four kids that I have to put first. I realize that she and I should have put more effort on time for just the two of us. It was a two way street.
I have reached the point that I don't care if she leaves. In fact, I wish that she would leave me and the kids and go do her thing. That won't happen. So, the advice is to file myself. I am preparing to do so, I have no other choice. The final outcome of all of this is impossible to predict. How much will I have the kids, how am I going to afford CS, how much CS, will the kids really be okay, can I afford to keep the house, can I afford another place if we have to sell the house.....A million different questions that are the same ones that everyone has. I am in better financial shape that my W but that only means that I will have to give her more money.
'Round and 'round it goes. It's the kids who are going to suffer the most. Four kids. Life is amazing and should be fun and exciting. We did have fun, but our priorities changed. I thought that was normal.
I'm starting to ramble. I hope you understand what I'm trying to say. I can't put it into words very well. I know what you are saying, I really do. I have the same choice that she does- Wow, my W only likes having sex in bed now when we used to do it on the trampoline, in the shed, anytime, anywhere. I think I'll go find someone who likes doing that. She's my W, but she doesn't make me happy all the time so screw her. Time for me to move on and who cares how she feels.-Was I bored at times? Did I try to spice things up? Yes. Did I ever consider leaving and tearing my family apart? NEVER.
Anyway, thanks again. Don't give up on me and never hold back the 2x4's.
I KNOW what I have to do. I know.
Thanks IDU. Those are my feelings too........
You hang tough buddy and do what you have to do to find peace.
Keep us posted.
Thanks, Dan. You do the same.
Tonight, I am going to band practice. I always have a good time playing music. That's one big GAL that I have going on right now.
On a side note about wife's meeting after the meeting Mon. nite; it was about the super's contract. The other two officers only want to do a year to year contract with him. He wants a five year deal. I saw on W's phone last night a dozen or more txt's to and from him about the whole discussion. One that sticks out was, "...well, if it was up to me, you would have a lifetime contract!"
But she swears they are just friends.
LOL.
IDU,
That is just too many TM. I had the same problem with my W, and it was more than she was saying. I am not saying that is true with your sitch, but there is something that is just not right with that many TM to me.
It sucks bad! It is just another hit to you.
You know what you are up against, and you still have to do what is best for you.
Thanks, Dan. You do the same.
Tonight, I am going to band practice. I always have a good time playing music. That's one big GAL that I have going on right now.
On a side note about wife's meeting after the meeting Mon. nite; it was about the super's contract. The other two officers only want to do a year to year contract with him. He wants a five year deal. I saw on W's phone last night a dozen or more txt's to and from him about the whole discussion. One that sticks out was, "...well, if it was up to me, you would have a lifetime contract!"
But she swears they are just friends.
LOL.
It's tough IDU, but I can't imagine you were surprised by what you saw, so blow it off. It would have been more remarkable if she had said "I'm not comfortable with you texting me anymore; I'm trying to work things out in my marriage."
You don't want her the way she is. She is going to stay the way she is unless she decides to change. You can't make her do that.
Have you walked through the financial details with your L? All of the logistics when considered together naturally worry the hell out of you. But if you take them one thing at a time you will handle it. Tons of people less capable than you have been through this and made it out. Your W will have to figure out her own solution.
One step at a time, trust in God, and let your wife float out in the ether where she belongs. Maybe she will wake up some day, but you have to assume she won't. Leave her to God and get on with what He has planned for you.
Well, had another big blow up last night.
As I was leaving for practice, W followed me outside. I knew something was up and tried to mentally prepare myself. She asked what L I had talked to. She said she is going for a consult herself. I said I thought that was a good idea. Says she doesn't understand why we can't use the same L, it would be cheaper. I again said that I was not interested in doing that, and agreed that she should go see one herself.
Then in got into the school board meetings and going out afterwards. Mon after the meeting, she said that the SB Pres. and V.P. said they were concerned for her safety and for the super's safety. It was the V.P. that I went and talked to about a month ago. According to her, he said that he was worried because I was so mad and said I would come to a meeting and accuse super and W of messing around and demand that he quit and that she quit. She said they thought about calling the police to "guard" them in case I came to the meeting.
I kind of laughed and told her that of all the things he and I and his wife discussed that night, when I said, "I would really like to go to a meeting and call them both out on their unethical behavior. I think it is wrong for a super and a school board member to have this much personal contact." I asked if her would be happy if it was his wife spending all this time and calls and txt with the super. He said of course not.
Then a lot of the same stuff as before: you don't trust me, you aren't happy, she has been trying and she is done. I validated my a$$ off and did not make any excuses. She said I would never be able to get over my suspicions about super and I still think that she slept with him even though she told me that she didn't. I told her to stop right there. "I'm sorry you feel that way, but you have no business telling me what I can or can't get over. Yes, I do have my suspicions about a lot of things and I have apologized for my past behavior many times. The fact remains that you refuse to stop any of the things that I have brought up that bother me. I can't live with a wife who sees no problem going out drinking with the guys and repeatedly stays out too late, who calls and txt another single man at all hours of the day and night, who doesn't discuss anything with me regarding things you do at school that don't involve our kids and automatically expect me to be here as a baby sitter. I don't know of another man who would and I am glad that you are going to see a L because that was the only thing left to do. Whatever may or may not be going on with the super is beside the point. Something is going on that I am not comfortable with. While I may not have brought it up in the proper way because I was mad and scared, you have made it clear that you will not give any of your school activities up including spending time with super. I accept that choice and agree that we need to get D."
She continued to go on about me not trusting her and she was always with other people and it was never just her and him by themselves. Then it turned to her family and she couldn't forgive me for "throwing her under the bus and running her down" to them. I reminded her that her family agreed with me that she was spending too much time at school and it wasn't right for her and super to be spending so much time together and talking and txting like they do. I caught her in so many lies and did not let her get away with any of them.
It seems like she may be setting me up for threatening her and the super. I started to walk in the house one time and she asked what I was doing. I said I was going to call the SB V.P. and get this cleared up once and for all. I said that I never said I was going to do anything other that tell everyone what was going on and ask for his resignation. If they think they need to have police come the the school to protect him and my wife from me, I wanted to hear it from him. She of course said I had involved other people in this too much. Don't ever say anything to him about any of this again. I continued to go for the phone and she said DO NOT CALL HIM. I guess we'll see if she tries that with her L. I DID NOT THREATEN ANYONE!
Finally, I walked around to the driver side of my truck and said, "Listen, I was supposed to be at Joe's an hour ago. I need to get going. I think it's good that you are going to see a L. While I don't agree that this M can't be fixed, I do agree that it is time that we move on. I want to apologize one last time for not being there for you in the way that you needed me to be. I love you more that anything in the world but I will be okay without you." She said that I told her a couple of week ago that I didn't love her and that I could never get over this. I said that I told her the same thing she told me, that I was not in love with her. I said I don't remember saying that I could never get over this. I'm sorry you feel that way. It is something I can get over, but not by myself. You have made it clear that you don't want to rebuild things with me and I am fine with that. I'm giving you what you want: a divorce. I got in my truck and left.
I really tried to remember all that I have been told here. I'm sure I screwed up some. I am really calm today. Maybe because I keep hoping that she will have her epiphany and come to her senses. I DO hope that happens, I can't lie. I do know I will be okay, eventually, if she doesn't.
We'll see where things go from here. It seems like I've been here before. I tried to make it sound more final this time. I kept thinking about Coach saying it was a good thing if she was mad. And boy, was she. I never raised my voice once and stayed calm and looked her in the eye the entire time. Just the opposite of how I had been at times in the past.
I do still hold out hope. Maybe my true DBing is just starting. I prayed a lot last night and welcome all the extra ones I can get.
Thanks.
I'm no pro, but it sounds like you did well with this conversation. Stay focused and tough. I don't know if this will cause her to have an epiphany or not, but it is the right way to go.
It took me until my W actually paid a retainer before I snapped out of my pursuit mode and got my head back on sort of straight. I am also hoping for an epiphany, but I just don't know if it is going to happen.
Remember what they say, this is a l o n g process. A marathon, not a sprint.
Hang in there and keep your chin up!!
in the end I think you did the right thing,
her spending more time with another man than she spends with you is just a recipe for more problems - if it's not work related and their time spent together is in a social setting and she's not willing to give it up, it means she's hooked on him and if she wants him that bad, she can have him. This texting business wouldn't be for work and her threats about calling police and all that other nonsense is just that nonsense, she does it to scare you and to test you and to see if you'll back down, stand up to her but do it how you did, in a firm, calm, cool way.
Based on your recap, I think you did pretty damn good, nice job!
stop apologizing though and stop telling her you love her, that's more less a form of pursuit, she doesn't want your apologies or to hear that you love her, she isn't going out of her way to apologize to you or tell you she loves you, take a clue from her playbook ;-)
IDU,
You did a really good job on the discussions with your W. I know it is very difficult for you, but you are doing the right thing.
Just tell her you don't trust her, and she has given you no reason to trust her.
Keep true to your values and what you want from your M.
stop apologizing though and stop telling her you love her, that's more less a form of pursuit, she doesn't want your apologies or to hear that you love her, she isn't going out of her way to apologize to you or tell you she loves you, take a clue from her playbook ;-)
I know, Rob. I fully expected a 2x4 from someone on that.
I found myself thinking that I didn't want to have this conversation again and if it really does go do divorce court from here, I wanted to make sure she knew I wasn't blaming all of this on her and that I did, in fact, still love her. It was the first time I told her that in eight months and I did not expect a reply from her. I didn't go overboard but I do realize I should not have said it.
It won't happen again.
no worries, you caught yourself so you know what you did, I think it's time to change your name to iunderstand, I think Steve alluded to that as well ;-)
I think you get the process now,
you've experienced some personal growth through this entire process and that's a good thing, keep it going!
I make a motion we change his name to "iunderstand."
Cheers
I make a motion we change his name to "iunderstand."
Cheers
Thanks for the vote of confidence Coach, Steve and Rob, but I want to make sure I don't backslide from all of this. I think we have had similar conversations where I would do some things right and royaly screw up on others. I think this is as close as I've come to "nailing it". In a week or two, when I see the aftermath of this(and I still have to make up my mind if I should file)I may change my handle.
There is still much idontunderstand, but I am learning and slowly getting there.
"There is still much i dont understand"
its called lifelong learning
one thing i know and can pass onto you and others is that you cannot quantify your existence through someone else.
one thing i know and can pass onto you and others is that you cannot quantify your existence through someone else.
You know, I didn't get married until I was 30. I lived a full life and did what I wanted when I wanted to. I tournament fished, hunted, rode four wheelers, play in a pool league, dart league, paint ball and others. I couldn't wait for the weekend to get here. I had some good friends, a couple of fairly steady girlfriends and dated when and if I wanted to. It was always FUN. And I was happy by myself.
I don't know if I mentioned it before or not, but I heard or read somewhere that life before kids is 10% work and 90% fun. After kids, just the opposite. I don't know if it's accurate or not, but it does take more work to have fun with little ones.
It's a hard lesson to relearn. We read it here all the time and it's so true. You are resposible for your happiness. Why does that become so hard to remember or figure out after you get married? Looking back from where I'm at now, it doesn't seem like it should be that hard to remember.
one thing i know and can pass onto you and others is that you cannot quantify your existence through someone else.
You know, I didn't get married until I was 30. I lived a full life and did what I wanted when I wanted to. I tournament fished, hunted, rode four wheelers, play in a pool league, dart league, paint ball and others. I couldn't wait for the weekend to get here. I had some good friends, a couple of fairly steady girlfriends and dated when and if I wanted to. It was always FUN. And I was happy by myself.
I don't know if I mentioned it before or not, but I heard or read somewhere that life before kids is 10% work and 90% fun. After kids, just the opposite. I don't know if it's accurate or not, but it does take more work to have fun with little ones.
It's a hard lesson to relearn. We read it here all the time and it's so true. You are resposible for your happiness. Why does that become so hard to remember or figure out after you get married? Looking back from where I'm at now, it doesn't seem like it should be that hard to remember.
Parallel again IDU. I didn't get married until I was 29. Although W and I were actually together since I was 20 and she 21. We didn't have kids until 32. We did a lot of fun things together and we went out all the time. I did a lot of the same things you did alone too. Fishing, hunting, Golf, etc. Most of the time she didn't even miss me because I would come back home around the time she was rolling out of bed and getting into the shower. About 10am!
Then we had kids and our fun time went down. I have read that marital satisfaction decreases significantly with children and more with each additional child. I still did some of my activities, but much less, but now she missed me, because the kids would get up early and I would be fishing or hunting or whatever. Not all the time mind you, but sometimes.
We didn't do much together anymore as a couple anymore either, only with the kids. Further she didn't go out by herself hardly at all. She used to complain about not getting to do stuff and I would say Plan something! Go out, do what you want. Let's get a babysitter, but we rarely did. I never turned down any request from her to do whatever she wanted. Now she says she couldn't because she couldn't leave the kids with me. More BS. Separation anxiety.
Like you, I accepted that life would be different with children and she seemed to also. But now, she seems like she thinks she missed half of her life and just wants to go out with her friends, without me, and party and talk to strange men. What the hell is up with that?
IDK IDU. It makes me crazy.....
What's up IDU? Hope you are doing ok!!
I had to take some time off and gather my thoughts. I've got some sh!tty decisions to make and I'm thinking things through.
I think it's time for a separation. When faced with the facts that this isn't going to be so easy and we will be friends and she has her automatic free babysitting service will no longer be her, maybe that will push her one way or the other. I've been bitching about limbo for so long but have really done very little to get myself out of it.
I did a little research and got some separation agreements on line. I understand there is no requirement for this for a trial separation, but I want it in writing that I am not abandoning my family(kids). She continues to refuse to leave. I have written out that I will leave the home on the nights that she doesn't have to work, she is home on Tues and Thurs, so I will leave Mon. and Wed. nights. She will leave the other nights and we will alternate weekends. She works every weekend so I'm sure that will piss her off. Oh, well.
As far as bills, I will get my own checking acct and we will split things 50-50. I'm willing to negotiate a little on that since I make more than she does. On the days or weekends that we have the kids and want to go out or have a meeting or whatever, that person is responsible alone for childcare. We will split other childcare expenses if it is for work.
I have put a time limit of no more that six months on the separation. If we have not come to a decision of reconciling or D, I will file myself.
Please let me know if I have left anything out or completely screwed anything up. I can't live like this anymore. It's up to her.
Thanks to all.
where will you guys go?
How long can you both maintain 3 different living spaces?
The family home, the place where you will go on specific days, the place where she will go on specific days?
Seems like a lot of work to me.
I wouldn't bother with the time limit on separation,
you give a wayward a time limit, they'll use every minute of that time and ask for more on top of that.
Since she wants out of the marriage and relationship with you,
just ask her to leave, plain & simple, tell her she can have a few weeks to find a new place and you can help her pack. It makes little sense to maintain 3 separate living spaces, plus the time line shows you're still attached to the outcome.
Let her go, offer to help her move out, she wants out of the relationship, she should be the one to find a new place, plain & simple. How she figures out the details on how she accomplishes this is not your problem to figure out anymore.
That's my take on it.
Thanks, Rob.
That's why I am still at the home. Most of the advice is to stay. It was suggested on another thread, I thing Gucci's "setting them free", that if they won't move out, I should. Well, she won't. She refuses. She has no place to go.
She has become very worried about money. She has taken a waitress/bartender job and is taking as much work as they will schedule her. For the next two weeks, that means EVERY DAY. I really think she is just trying to pay off some debt before she hires a L. IDK, just my feeling.
I have told her to leave, I would help her pack, etc. I can stay with my sister who is very close to my work and has room for me and the kids. I know it is not ideal, but I am really out of ideas. I thought maybe this was a good alternative.
I can see where it shows I am attached to the outcome now that you pointed it out. No time limits. I really just want her out.
I really just want her out.
I must comment on this as I can relate to your problem to a tee. My wife wanted a legal separation I said I did not, and wanted to work on the R. I tried I really did.. too much apparently, pleading pursuing etc
I stayed at my brothers for a week while she stayed in the house with the kids 5 and 8. The next week she would stay in her parents basement suit and I would stay on the house with the girls.
I held on as long as I could and finally got a lawyer signed the separation papers and put the house up for sale.
I remember the day it sold I could hear her upstairs almost cheering with joy, I sat downstairs where I had lived for 6 months and cried my face off.
Funny, I managed to get out of the deal and bought my wife out and gave her two weeks to move out….finally I had some control over the situation. She moved to her parents home and that is where she is.
Children custody 50 /50 and all I can say is… she has to drop off the girls at my home, the girls home where they are comfortable and have their same rooms. I looked at it as keeping as much of their day to day STABILITY in tact as possible.
At my wife’s parents place. The girls sleep upstairs in a room besides my wife’s parents who are in there mid 70’s. My girls tell me the grandparents cook the majority of the meals, ( wife never could grasp the concept of cooking….noodles)
My wife has put her parents in bind having to help look after two small children ( no small task) I told my wife, you want to split up the family then so be it……
Like everyone has said have her move out. This is what she wants she has to pay the consequence for her actions.
Stay strong, keep the place for your children…stability for them is the key right now.
Thanks, Stitch.
Thanks for the input. It's still amazing how similar ALL of this is.
I know what you are saying. The plan, such as it is, is for the kids to stay at the home and each of us taking turns staying with them in the home. Not ideal, I know. Just searching for something to get myself some relief. I do not pay attention to her moods anymore. Last night, after supper, we cleaned the table and showered the kids and I took turns playing with them. W went in living room and read a book. She had to be at work at 4:oo this morning. I was playing the playstation with the two younger kids and she came in and told them good-night and told me what the babysitting arrangements were for today. She said she was going to bed and for me to get the kids in bed by 9:30. I asked where she was sleeping, she said in bed. Now, I know I didn't handle this the right way, but S4 has been sleeping in bed with me for a few months, since she wanted to separate. He will go to sleep in his room but end up with me almost every night. D6 does, too. Anyway, I told S4 to go ahead and get in bed with Mom. W said he needs to sleep in his own bed. I reminded her that I was not sleeping on the couch and if she was going to our bed, either I would sleep with her, or I would sleep in son's bed. She said, fine, and slept on the couch in the living room instead of the family room.
I know the deal is not to give up my bed, not negotiate who would sleeps where. I got the reminder across in front of the kids without saying anything in front of them about why mom and dad don't sleep together anymore. They notice anyway. Just part of the suck.
Like everyone has said have her move out. This is what she wants she has to pay the consequence for her actions.
I keep telling her that she needs to do exactly that. She won't.
Stay strong, keep the place for your children…stability for them is the key right now.
I'm trying, and you're right; stability is so important for them even though things are falling apart.
Based on how you describe your W's behavior around you, I am of the opinion that a separation won't do anything at all for your relationship. She is not exactly "on the fence" not knowing what she wants. She seems as if she would be gone in seconds if you had a hundred grand sitting in your savings account.
Maybe just file for divorce. It's not like it will be finalized in two weeks. It will go as fast or slow as you want it. And it can always be pulled from the table if your W wakes up. But she will know you are serious, and it will save you the 6 months that I think will be a waste of time. You tried MC, and she basically sh*tcanned it. What is left to do?
Based on how you describe your W's behavior around you, I am of the opinion that a separation won't do anything at all for your relationship. She is not exactly "on the fence" not knowing what she wants. She seems as if she would be gone in seconds if you had a hundred grand sitting in your savings account.
Maybe just file for divorce. It's not like it will be finalized in two weeks. It will go as fast or slow as you want it. And it can always be pulled from the table if your W wakes up. But she will know you are serious, and it will save you the 6 months that I think will be a waste of time. You tried MC, and she basically sh*tcanned it. What is left to do?
I'm sure you are right on, Pigskin. I guess I got sidetracked when I read that if she won't leave, I should.(not a direct quote ;))
She said during our last "discussion" that I told her that I couldn't get over this. I said that I did not tell her that, do not put words in my mouth. She said that during our one MC session, that I was mad and distant, the C did not tell me what I wanted to hear, which was, according to her, that she should quit coaching and the school board and stay at home. Again I said, that's not true, I was nervous and concerned, but after you said that you weren't here to work on the M and you were "done", I didn't see any point in going into any more detail to try to get to the real root of the problems and try to solve them.
I know by some of the things she says that she is somewhat conflicted. She has no idea what she is getting herself and our family into. Maybe a separation would shed some light on that. Maybe I am chickening out. Probably the latter.
See why I didn't change my name to iunderstand just yet.
Thanks again for all you have done for me, I won't forget it. Like I said, I won't be here as much for a while(not counting today!)because I need to think through so much. I'm sure I have the answers already. Just need some quiet time to digest and think things through. While I still hope not to be in your position, I hope that when I do get there, I can deal with it rationally and with strength the same way that you are.
I'm sure I will have some questions, but I have to do some things on my own. Stand on my own two feet, if you will.
Time to embrace the suck. I've been doing it a little at a time. That's not the right way. Embrace it ALL.
See ya later IDU. Good luck to you.....
Based on how you describe your W's behavior around you, I am of the opinion that a separation won't do anything at all for your relationship. She is not exactly "on the fence" not knowing what she wants. She seems as if she would be gone in seconds if you had a hundred grand sitting in your savings account.
Know there is a reply that went literally thru me like a lightning bolt. The truth hearts down to the bone… deep.
I went to a councilor twice to work on my marriage problems. All I can say is that they both laid me out and beat me to the curb. Emotionally crushed me for many months. It was the most painful thing I have ever been thru. It was just a way for my wife to say again “I am Done” “I do not want to spend the rest of my life with you” I did buy her out of the house I have my girls 5 and 8 50 percent of the time. She has her wealthy parents to rely on and buy her a house. Funny we have been legally separated for three months and she still lives in the basement suit of her parents home.
I did go the her parents and tried to convince them to stay out of our issues and do not throw the Colden carrot in from of her nose because there are two children involved. No such luck. The old me would not have been able to write this without crying uncontrollably … It’s true we all get stronger.
Cheers.
Stitch
Journaling:
Just so I can look back and keep things fresh in my mind.
W got home from the bar/resaurant last night and sat down to eat. I asked how her day was. She said it was busy and that she made $150 in tips. I said that sounds like a great day.
While she is eating, she tells me about a guy she says was probably in his mid 50's who asked if she was a long distance runner. She said that she does run some, why? Of course he said he noticed how long and lean her legs were and how she was the best looking waitress there, etc. He was soon joined by a buddy who said, when she brought him his drink, "Hey, Joe, you're right. She is the best looking one is the building." Then they started asking her her sign and guessing what it was. I kind of laughed and said I didn't think people used that as a pick up line anymore. She laughed and said she thought the same thing. One of the twins came in and overheard us and said to her, "you should have told him you were married, Mom, and for him to leave you alone." Wow, did that piss her off! She said, "I just shouldn't have said anything." I told our son that some people just do that when they go to some places and it didn't mean anything.
So, she's trying to make me jealous? I simply agreed with everything she said. "I'm sure you are the best looking waitress there...You do have great legs..." I never argued or got mad. She has waitressed and bartended for years off and on. I never got jealous before. I'm not jealous now. If she's out to get picked up, so be it. She calls on her way home and she is working every day at this restaurant. They close at 10:00 and she has never been later getting home than 10:30. This is a busy time of year for them and she says it is all going on the credit cards. I guess that's a good thing no matter how it all turns out.
Anyway, I hope everyone is doing well. I will keep checking in from time to time.
Hi IDU,
I am so sorry to hear the persistent difficulties in your marriage. I understand that you need some time to yourself to think. I hope it sheds some light on your sitch.
I know it is not an ideal situation for you right now. You will be okay whatever the outcome of your sitch. Remember that!
You will be missed on the forum here.
Be positive, and remember who you are now. It is a strong person that is able to deal with any situation.
Thank you for all the support you have provided me. I hope to hear from you from time to time.
Journaling:
One of the twins came in and overheard us and said to her, "you should have told him you were married, Mom, and for him to leave you alone." Wow, did that piss her off!
LOL! I LOVE it! That kid deserves a special treat. Even the youngster understands the sanctity of marriage...
journaling:
Had a great weekend with the kids. W got home a midnight Fri and had to be at work at 3:00 on Sat morning. I had a band gig Sat. and did not see her until Sun evening. She worked Sun a.m. at her regular job and went straight to her bartending job after that. The kids and I did our regular Sun thing and I took them swimming in the afternoon. W was supposed to work until 8:00. She txt me @ 3:00 saying it was slow at the bar and she was headed home. She asked what we were doing. My phone was in my truck and I didn't get the txt until 6:00 or so.(My phone is not permanantly attached to me like hers is
) I txt her to let her know where we were. She said she was going to lay down, she didn't feel good.(the kids said she threw up a few times on Sat.-maybe from partying too much?)
We got home @7:30 and I got the kids showered while she was sleeping. They wanted breakfast for supper and I told them that was a good idea, I would make eggs and bisquits and gravy and sausage when everyone was cleaned up. W woke up and immediately started in on a rampage. "They usually eat at 5:00, you mean you haven't fed them yet? It's too late for a big meal. This kitchen is a mess, let me clean up so I can find sh!t and I guess I'll make some fu#*ing sandwiches." The kids started fussing saying Dad said we could have breakfast for supper. That set her off even worse. She started throwing stuff around and cussing. I told her to go lay back down and I would take care of supper. She told the older boys to help her clean up. I again told her to go lay down, I didn't ask for help and she was only making things worse. She paid me no attention and continued on her merry way.
I took a shower and came back in the kitchen to hear her yelling at the kids for making too much of a mess cracking the eggs. She told them to go sit down, she would do it. I sat down with them and talked about the day and ignored her. The kids ate and went to watch T.V. I joined them while she cleaned up the kitchen.
Just wanted to add that I had done the dishes earlier in the day. The only dishes for her to clean up were from lunch. I also did laundry and cleaned up around the house. Not like she would, of course, but it was not a mess by any means.
Anyway, I walked through the kitchen with the kids swimming suits and towels so I could put them in the wash. She was cussing to her self about what a f#%^ing mess the kitchen was. I said, as I was passing through, "Next time, I will be sure to have everything spotless for you when you get home. Of course, you were not supposed to be home until 8:00 and I did not ask for your help. I can take care of the kids and the house on my own." I put the laundry in and went to play with the kids.
W took a shower and went to bed without another word to me.
BTW-the band is going great and is a welcome diversion from this mess. Get to meet lots of single women. It is true what they say about musicians
. Breaking the ice is not a problem. I don't even have to go and seek anyone out and flirt, they usually come to me; "Aren't you in the band?" Automatic. Not anyone I would want to marry but the attention is nice.
Music is a great relaxer. I used to play bass in a band, but had given it up 6 years ago to spend more time with the family. I don't want to get back into that, but it sure was fun.
IDU,
That must have been so uncomfortable for you and the kids the way your W was acting. It is just so unnecessary to be that way when you were trying to do something nice for the kids. I like doing breakfast for dinner sometimes. I am glad you had a good time with the kids.
My W was a little on the grumpy side with kids last night too.
It too will pass.
Have a great day and keep the calmness for yourself and the kids.
I loved to hear what you twin had to say! LOL!!! That is a great one. On Friday, my S said, "Mom is making a lot of bad decisions lately, isn't she." I had to laugh about that one too.
Her reactions and actions regarding dinner and cleaning up the kitchen are ridiculous too. It's funny that she can't let you take care of it on your own. Maybe she is coming to realize that she isn't so important to you guys after all. They all think that THEY have done EVERYTHING for US, and that WE would fail without them, but the fact is, we are completely capable of taking care of our kids and ourselves.
My W used to complain that if she was gone, we'd be surprised at how much there was to do or how messy the place would get. A little too self-important, methinks.
I'm glad to hear that you are able to ignore her and continue to have fun with the kids. They are a great salvation at this time for me too.
I'm also glad to hear that she is working and paying bills. My W refuses to go back to work full-time, doesn't have much $ for bills and then complains that I don't give her any money. What a crock!
Hang in there buddy! It's always good to hear from you.
I said, as I was passing through, "Next time, I will be sure to have everything spotless for you when you get home. Of course, you were not supposed to be home until 8:00 and I did not ask for your help. I can take care of the kids and the house on my own." I put the laundry in and went to play with the kids.
Puppy
Thanks, Dan.
It's all just another reminder that our wives are in fantasy land. Mine has told me several times that the "kids would be better off if we got a D." What a crock. I agree that it is not good for the kids to see us like this. They pick up on a lot more that we think they do. We don't fight in front of them but I'm sure they have overheard some things. A D would be better than fixing the root problems? I don't think so. Especially not for the kids.
My W is a life long Catholic who always took her religion seriously. She walked the walk. I remember conversations we had when her bro. was going through a D and also my sister. She just couldn't understand why they couldn't work it out or even try to. We had two unexpected pregnancies and an abortion was never an option for either of us. Not to try to compare abortion and divorce, just to paint the picture of the way she used to be. And I'm sure that was part of my problem in thinking this can't happen to us. We had never had any big problems(that I new of) and I'm sure I didn't have the urgency in "fixing" little things because I felt(there's that freaky word) that we were always on the same page and we had enough faith and love that this stuff would never affect us.
HOW WRONG I WAS!
I'm also glad to hear that she is working and paying bills. My W refuses to go back to work full-time, doesn't have much $ for bills and then complains that I don't give her any money. What a crock!
I'm glad she is, too. She didn't feel the urge until I blamed her for draining the savings, though. Now, she's working sometimes 16 hrs a day. Oh, well. Just that much less I have to be around her. I told her, not too long ago, that I wasn't interested in waiting around for her to sock some money away so she would be more comfortable when she left. She said all the extra money was to pay off OUR debts. So far she has made good on that claim. And if we are out of debt when the D happens, I guess that's not all bad.
I know I still should file myself. Not quite there yet.
I'm not here as much as I used to be but I can't seem to stay away for too long, you know? You guys do help me so much and, unfortunately, I still need some. I'm getting there.
Thanks again.
I said, as I was passing through, "Next time, I will be sure to have everything spotless for you when you get home. Of course, you were not supposed to be home until 8:00 and I did not ask for your help. I can take care of the kids and the house on my own." I put the laundry in and went to play with the kids.
Puppy
Wow, a three whistle reply! I'm honored!
Now, if I could only follow through. I wish embracing the suck didn't suck so much.
This forum has been a life saver for so many...
This forum has been a life saver for so many...
Amen, Brother, amen!
No one I talk to, family, friends, pastor, therapist, really understand what I'm going through. One friend does, she divorced her husband because of infidelity. But other than that, this is the only place where people are going through the same things I am, feeling the same as I do. Part of me hates that, so many people hurting. But it brings me so much comfort.
I copied this from your thread and it does a good job of putting into words the way that most all of us feel at one time or another.
Sometimes it feels (well not sometimes, always) like I've been going through this for years. It's only been 30 days, and I've felt more pain and sadness than I ever thought possible. If only our WASs knew, actually knew how much pain their actions bring us.
I need to learn patience. I need to detach. I need to find God's grace. I need to mend. But all I can do is feel pain. Even during my GALs, I'll see a family walking together and wonder why that's not my family. Or a couple laughing at a restaurant, or walking down the street holding hands.
I never once considered cheating on my wife, though my emotional and physical needs weren't being met. Never once thought of leaving her and our kids. Never flirted with other women, disrespecting the vows I made.
Despair is the worst emotion; worse than fear, worse than rejection. Despair is my mortal enemy. And despair is winning...
I guess the hard part is moving away from despair and replacing that emotion with hope and wisdom. We understand that the WAS is not thinking rationally. It is useless to try and figure out what she is thinking. She may not honestly know herself. We must improve ourselves first and formost for ourselves. The plan is for her to notice and to be attracted to the man that they fell in love with so long ago who has been lost a little bit. Because of stresses of family, work or whatever, we do lose sight of who we are. To find that person again is a blessing.
All of the LBS here WILL come out on the other side of this hell a better person. I have no doubt of that whatsoever. If we could all only follow our own advice and do what needs to be done, we would be so much better off. I think I am past despair, but I still have some fear inside. That is not a good thing. I have to let go of the fear. Coach told me once that they can sense it. I'm sure that's true no matter how much I think I am hiding it, she knows I am afraid of doing what I should do, what anyone would do; File for D myself. I don't deserve being treated this way and shouldn't have to live this way. But, as we have all read here over and over, that is sometimes the only thing that wakes them up. And if it doesn't, what is the worse that could happen? We save ourselves months and maybe years of ongoing hell in broken marriages that we alone are trying to fix.
Again, that is no way to live.
Hang in there. It does get easier and you do get stronger. Have the faith to do the hard work and know that it will work out for the best even though it may not seem like it at the time.
I re-read your thread to give me the courage to file as well. I am afraid too. My parents got a D in 1972 and changed my life forever and I swore I would never get one. I never did pinpoint an OM but with her working more and more (60-70 hours a week) does it really matter if there is an OM or not. She is never around enough to have a M.
Chuck
Thank for checking in, Chuck. If I can help someone, it makes this all worth while. I can't imagine my up and down, back and forth response to my sitch is encouraging to anyone but I hope you can at least learn from my mistakes.
Journaling:
Got home from work last night and the neighbor kids were over playing with our kids. W was watching TV. I told everyone hi and went out to cut grass. I came back in after dark and ate a little supper. D6 and S4 came in and "snacked" with me. W's phone rang with a txt. D6 went to get it thinking it was my phone. She said, "You got a txt, Dad." Then she saw it was not my phone and put it back down. I told her to take it to Mom. She came and sat down by me and started eating again. I told her again to take mom's phone to her. She said, "No, I don't want to......aggravate her." I guess the kids have been told not to mess with mom's phone.
Haven't talked to W in three days. The kids are starting to ask more questions. I know it can't go on like this.
Sorry to hear about your sitch IDU. Hang in there man and stay strong for your kids. You are doing great.
Journaling:
W worked her normal job from 4 to noon on Sat., 7-30. Then went to her restaurant job. Supposed to get off at 8. She got home after 11:00.
She worked her regular job again Sun. Txt me and said the restaurant asked her to work because someone called in sick. She got home @4:00 and went to sleep. The kids and I were gone swimming. We got home at 6:30, I gave them all showers and made pizza for supper. W woke up and helped with supper. I showered and we watched TV for a while. She went to bed with S4 and the rest of us finished a movie and went to bed. D6 asked if she could sleep with me so I let her. She usually comes into my room sometime in the middle of the night anyway. I read where Puppy said that may not be a good idea. IDK. We have always let the little ones sleep with us if they were scared or had a nightmare. If she wants to use that against me, I guess I can't stop her.
IDU,
My W and I let the kids sleep in the bed until about 4 years, but I have been working hard to move the kids away from it. It has been difficult for S to adjust the most. He uses excuses to sleep in our bed all the time.
I believe it is best in my situation to have him sleep in his own, but you have to make your own decisions best for you.
Thanks again, LSG.
I contacted my L today and had her start the paperwork for filing.
I'm scared.
I tried reaching out to her this weekend and got a nasty look and she jerked her hand back as if she had touched a snake.
I know this is not final yet but it sure seems like I'm putting another nail in the coffin.
I am standing up for myself and family. I should have kicked her out last Sep. I was too scared. I'm still scared. Not to lose her but losing time with my kids and, yes, the financial aspects of it all. It will probably ruin both of us.
I hope it's not too late but I accept, grudgingly, that it probably is.
Thanks, everyone, for all the help. I wish I would have listened sooner.
IDU,
I authorized my L to file but I don't think the papers have gone to the courthouse yet. So I am just a smidge ahead of you on the roller coaster.
I had a crazy thought the other day. My L said the D will take at LEAST 6 months or the end of Jan 2011! Since I am the one who filed. In Dec, can I retract my D paperwork and if W wanted to file would it then take another 6 months? If that were true I would keep that timeline to myself and not feel like me filing for D is the last nail in the M coffin and I could go back to working on DBing even while the D progresses.
It was just a thought.
IDU,
It is scary, and I still have some fear. My W made the choice for the kids and me. I just accept what will happen will happen, and I will be okay no matter what. It helps me to deal with the stress of it all. Check with attorneys for the best place to file. My attorneys told me the place that my W filed rules in favor of woman most of the time. I have to believe it will be okay.
It is not final yet, IDU. It has been said on here that maybe filing for D will be the wake-up call to the WAS. You never know.
Maybe it will bring you some peace too. You need that. It weighs on the mind. Limbo is no fun to be in forever.
You may have listened, but you were not ready to make the decisions you are now. Don't regret what you had done to get to the point you are now.
Remember it is never too late.
Keep doing what you feel is in yours and your kids best interest. It is your decision.
Take care and try to have a nice day!
IDU
and LSG
It is not final yet, IDU. It has been said on here that maybe filing for D will be the wake-up call to the WAS. You never know.
Maybe it will bring you some peace too. You need that. It weighs on the mind. Limbo is no fun to be in forever.
I am very close to filing myself.
Like most of the important items in the M, I will need to take care of business.
Maybe me filing will wake her up, maybe not. I'm not banking on anything.
I feel extremely detached from her, in fact I only contact her through email and it's always about the kids or finances.
Stay string idu, things will work out for you and your kids.
And know that you tried to save your family.
Tough times go away, tough people don't.
gr8
Thanks, guys. I really need the support.
I am embracing the suck and this is a whole new level.
Proud of you IDU. Don't have time to write a full reply, but I am with you, and think this is the right move. It will be less scary as you adjust to it.
Remember that you did not choose this; your wife did.
Journaling:
Had a good time at the water park for the twins' b'day. Stayed from open 'til closing and then went to eat. All in all, a great day. W and I had a few moments of remembering when the boys were born and how little they were, the time spent in the NICU and when we first brought them home. She initiated all conversations about it and I smiled and laughed along with her. She did show a little of the dark side a few times during the day but the kids and I ignored them and refused to let her bring us down.
Later, after putting the kids to bed, we watched the news for awhile. She said to me, "I don't know about you, but I'm beat." I said I was too. Then I tried reaching out, again.
"I know you are exhausted. Why don't you come sleep in bed tonight." She paused for a second and said, "I'm fine out here."
I said goodnight, smiled, and went to bed. Worth a try I guess.
Lawyer on vacation this week. Still doing paperwork. Nothing new to report. Anxiety is less today. I still hold out hope that this will turn around. I keep telling myself this is the right thing to do. All prayers still welcome.
Praying for you buddy. Hang in there, you are doing the right thing. You probably shouldn't have reached-out though. If filing doesn't turn her head, realize it will be ok anyway. You deserve better than what you have right now. Things will be OK and you will find love again.
After digging into the details more with my mortgage lady, I'm finding out that I will probably still be able to afford a pretty nice place if I want to if we end-up having to sell. As bad as it seemed in the beginning, right now I don't even care if we have to sell. W is delusional about how much we would get for the place and also about the fact that she can't afford to stay here. We ran all the numbers and there is no way she can do it.
I'm getting so tired of her that most of the time I feel like I don't even care if we do get D anymore.
Start looking beyond you M and see what is out there. Life can be good without her. Life is what you make it...make yours fun. Choose to be happy and don't let this get you too far down. This coming from a guy who was just in despair 2 days ago, so take it with a grain of salt, but I know and you know that you are STRONG and you WILL still have a great life. We are both the same age and there is still quite a way to go, so make the best of it.
Stop trying....No more pursuit.
Have a great weekend. Anything special planned?
IDU,
I am glad you had a nice day with the family. You deserve it so much.
It was worth a try. In my sitch, I tried to have a relationship talk when I knew it was wrong, but I had to do it. It felt good, but it did not accomplish anything. I guess you had one of those moments where pursuing felt right, and the reaction she gave you may be just what you need to follow throug with a divorce if that is your final decision. You will decide what is best for you. I don't think pursuing is going to do much good for you at the moment.
I hold out hope for you too. My thoughts and prayers are with you always.
Hang in there IDU. Sometimes we let ourselves make mistakes. They don't seem like that except in hindsight. We're only human.
I remember reading about successful generals. The best weren't the smartest, cleverest, etc. They were the ones who made the fewest mistakes.
LSG, Pinhead and Dan- thanks for the encouragement, I still need it!
I know not to pursue at this point, but I wanted to try like dday and Steve said. You know, don't be afraid to try something different, tell her how you feel, she's not an alien.....so I did reach out a couple of times and did not expect anything in return. She rejected me and I did not react, I just went on my way, NBD.
This weekend was our church picnic. The two of us have always worked together at it. This year was the first year that I was in charge of the card stand. She said she wasn't coming because she couldn't get off of work at the bar. I had my mom and dad keep the kids on Sat morning while I went to church to help set up stands and fry chicken. I went home to get cleaned up and W was asleep on couch. I got dressed and she jumped in the shower. As I was getting ready to leave, she came out and said how nice it was outside, and a little small talk. I asked her, "since the kids aren't here to hear us argue, when are you going to move out? Have you been to a lawyer yet?" She got all pissed, she hasn't had time to see a L, she's been working, why was I asking, she knows I don't want her working at the bar she's just trying to get us out of debt. On and on she went. So I stopped her and asked again, when was she leaving. She asked why was I bringing this up again and I said, "As I told you a few weeks ago, I cannot and will not live like this any longer. You refuse to try, to go to MC anymore. Nothing has changed. You want this, you need to leave, period." She said why don't you leave? I told her again that I don't want a D but I am done trying by myself. She said, "That's a nice way of asking, W, please don't leave."
Then she started throwing crap around the bedroom, saying there were no clean towels and not clean this and that. I walked out and told her I had done laundry and it was done and folded and sitting in the laundry room. Then I left.
Yesterday, she worked her regular job and the bar again. She hasn't seen the kids in three days. She did call and txt a couple of times and was very friendly. Just guilt, I'm sure.
Almost forgot, she worked the bar last night from 3 'till 11 and then worked her regular job from midnight to 7 this morning. She said they were remodeling and she needed to go in early. So she stayed out all night. Was she really at work? IDK and IDC.
Have not heard from my L, she was on vacation. I think she said she would be back Tue. or Wed. this week. I still hate to have to do it because I'm still afraid in my kids eyes, I will be the bad guy and she will be able to say, 'see, I didn't file but he did.' She has the power to stop this and I'm sure she knows it.
Oh, and one more thing(as Columbo would say), the School Board president was at the church picnic. He came up to me on his own, I did not seek him out, and shook my hand and said, "I just want you to know, I am 100% on your side in this mess." It was good to hear. If it will help me or really mean anything, IDK.
IDU,
Do what you think is right. Your kids will eventually learn the truth, and since she's not spending time with them anyways, they'll naturally gravitate towards the parent that gives them the most time, love and attention.
WAW with kids have a huge amount of guilt. It's easy for our pain and anger to forget how hard it is for our spouses. And easy to feel like it's their just desserts. But if we truly love them, we have to be compassionate; compassionate doesn't mean a doormat though.
Focus on your values; choose your actions based on your values, and accept your emotions. Don't switch these around...
IDU,
The kids will not see you as the bad guy either way. They know you have done everything possible to save your marriage. I believe that it does not matter who files as long as you did the best you could to keep your family together, and you have done that and more.
Take care of yourself.
The kids will not see you as the bad guy either way. They know you have done everything possible to save your marriage.
I hope you are right, LSG. I'm sure you are. It would be somewhat easier if she was the one initiating things. Oh, well. Lead don't follow, right?
Journaling:
W worked at the restaurant/bar last night. She is usually home a little after 11:00. Last night she got home at 2:15. I woke up when she came in the room to get her clothes to shower. I asked what time it was and she told me. No reaction from me, no sighs, no why are you so late, nothing. I just laid back down and went to sleep. She leaves for her regular job at 3:30 so she got no sleep. When she was getting ready to leave, she came in and woke me up. She said there was a band at the bar and they stayed open late. I just said okay and went back to sleep.
When I got up this morning, there was a note from her saying the same thing. She never leaves notes anymore. She was explaining why she was late.
I got the kids ready and took them to the sitter and came to work.
I did not react to her at all. Everything she does now just makes it easier for me to follow through with what I have put in motion. She has again broken a big boundary that we have talked about numerous times. No phone call, no txt, nothing. And, to my surprise, I wasn't going crazy when she was late. I didn't care. Yes, it still bothers me. My M is over. She can do what she want and has proven over and over again that she is going to do just that.
I am calm and I am moving forward. What she does is of no interest to me. I have started the process of dissolving this M, something I never wanted to do and something I should have done long ago. My M is gone, my W is gone but I have four great kids who I have to help ease their pain as much as I can.
I DID NOT CHOOSE THIS.
IDU,
She's testing you, seeing if you still care.
Keep the good focus you have. Your kids are very lucky to have you!
did not react to her at all. Everything she does now just makes it easier for me to follow through with what I have put in motion. She has again broken a big boundary that we have talked about numerous times. No phone call, no txt, nothing. And, to my surprise, I wasn't going crazy when she was late. I didn't care. Yes, it still bothers me. My M is over. She can do what she want and has proven over and over again that she is going to do just that.
I am calm and I am moving forward. What she does is of no interest to me. I have started the process of dissolving this M, something I never wanted to do and something I should have done long ago. My M is gone, my W is gone but I have four great kids who I have to help ease their pain as much as I can.
I DID NOT CHOOSE THIS
We didn't choose the situation were in, but have adapted well.
After stating the above, you should now be idounderstand!
Good work!
gr8
Nice work IDU. Hang in there, you are doing great.
keep the focus on you and the kids and let her go. Best of luck.
I'm sure she is testing me. That kind of stuff is much easier to see now than it was a few months ago. I'm not backing down now. Like you said on your thread, gr8: I know what I want now and don't know if W could give that to me.
I do still have some hope that she is softening and will change her mind. I don't need her, though. I finally understand at least that much.
I'm sure she is testing me. That kind of stuff is much easier to see now than it was a few months ago. I'm not backing down now. Like you said on your thread, gr8: I know what I want now and don't know if W could give that to me.
I do still have some hope that she is softening and will change her mind. I don't need her, though. I finally understand at least that much.
She has now become something you want, not something you need, and that makes all the difference. You are able to avoid attaching any emotion to her actions, which keeps you from being hurt by the poor ones and suckered by the good ones.
You are standing up for what is right. You are doing what God Himself would have you do. You are letting Him deal with her.
Very very nice work.
Thanks, Pigskin. I keep plugging along and trying. I remember feeling like I was running out of time. I've been on here since Feb. A person's perspective sure can change a lot in a short amount of time.
I still hold out some hope. She has never stopped wearing her ring. I know that shouldn't mean anything to me and it may not mean anything to her, but I can't help but notice. I remember when you drew the heart in the snow for your wife. It didn't mean anything at the time but maybe she filed that in her mental Rolo-dex and she looks back on it and smiles. Who knows. It's so clear now that letting go is the only thing that helps us. We still hope for what would be best for our families but we know we will be fine either way. I apprciate how you told me to take one thing at a time. It is easier that way. I tend to think about the whole sitch at once. I can handle it. It won't be easy but that's okay.
I still hate to have to go as far as filing. I know that is just the first step and I can stop it from going any further. I don't know if pride would get in her way if she did decide to come back. That's something else that is out of my control.
If you file her L will file a counter claim. If you pull your paperwork the D still continues. Just making sure you know this.
If you file her L will file a counter claim. If you pull your paperwork the D still continues. Just making sure you know this.
I do, Chuck. I guess it's just wishfull thinking on my part that this will shock her enough to want to stop it and not let it go any further. Either way, I want this phase of my life over with one way or the other.
Just one quick thing to add:
As I was leaving this morning, I asked W who would be watching the kids tonight. She said that the twins group she is the pres. of is having a skating party at such and such so we didn't need a sitter. I said, okay and left.
Now, in the past I would have fumed about not being invited or included as I always was before this all started. I would not have went because I "felt" left out. I will be going tonight because my kids want me there. I don't care if she doesn't even look at me. I will have fun and my kids will have fun. That is all that matters.
Good attitude buddy. Have a great time tonight. You are doing great!
IDU,
I tried to use the D to shock her out of it too. Also want this phase over too. Life will be good either way. Especially since we both have twins! Twins are fun!
Keep the faith!
IDU,
I think you should always keep the hope even if you file for D. I know I am not going back because I could never forget what I have experienced. You still want your W back in your life. I find that you still have a chance.
It is out of your control how she will react to a divorce if you should file. You have to decide if you are willing to do it and go all the way. There is a possibility that it would be the very thing needed to bring your marriage together. You will only know this after you have filed.
It is a hard decision. Make sure it is the one that you want to make before doing it.
You will be okay.
Don't lose your hope!
Journaling-
Went skating with the kids and had a great time. They were surprised to see me and so was W. She even smiled when she said, "Hi"
This weekend, I took the twins on our annual father son float trip. This is the fifth year we have went. We go with some other dads from work. They had a great time as always. It was hot but the river water is clear and cool. I think their favorite part of the trip is eating donuts and drinking soda for breakfast! We left Sat at 5 am and W got home from the bar at 4:40 am, just in time to tell us 'bye. I reached out and touched her arm and told her 'bye and she didn't respond at all. NBD. We got back Sun nite and she was her usual self while the boys and I were in great moods. The two little ones were happy to see me. D6 started crying (as she usually does when we get home from this trip) and said I have to take her somewhere by ourselves. I said maybe her and mom could go somewhere and she said she wanted to go with me, not mom. God, I love my kids!!!
W told me this morning she was planning on taking the kids to her cousins wedding in Iowa this weekend. I said that was fine, but I wasn't lying to the kids about why I wasn't going. I said, "We will tell them that you don't want me to go. This would be a good time to tell them that we are splitting up. In fact, why don't you take your ring off and tell everyone in your family what you are planning and why I'm not there. I won't lie to the kids anymore." Then I left for work. Don't know if it was the right thing to say or the right way to say it but I don't care.
The kids started school today. They were excited and sad at the same time. I'm sure that is the common feeling.
Where did the summer go? I'm sure I spent most of the time waiting for W to do something about "us" thinking she would before school started. That's a big part of my problem; waiting for someone else to do something when I am the one who should be taking control and doing it myself. I still have some things to take care of with my L and she will have the papers ready. I will show them to W and see if she agrees. I'm sure she won't. She will have to get a L then and we'll start the fun of mediation and fighting things out. Won't be fun at all. It's her choice, not mine. I have finally started doing something about it instead of waiting around for her. I hate doing it. I have to, though.
I said that was fine, but I wasn't lying to the kids about why I wasn't going. I said, "We will tell them that you don't want me to go. This would be a good time to tell them that we are splitting up. In fact, why don't you take your ring off and tell everyone in your family what you are planning and why I'm not there. I won't lie to the kids anymore." Then I left for work. Don't know if it was the right thing to say or the right way to say it but I don't care.
I'm proud of you!!! That was Great!!!! I bet that felt good. You are the Alpha male...ooowwwwwwwwwwwww!! No more waiting around for others to decide things for you. IDU is the MAN!
That's a big part of my problem; waiting for someone else to do something when I am the one who should be taking control and doing it myself. I still have some things to take care of with my L and she will have the papers ready. I will show them to W and see if she agrees. I'm sure she won't. She will have to get a L then and we'll start the fun of mediation and fighting things out. Won't be fun at all. It's her choice, not mine. I have finally started doing something about it instead of waiting around for her. I hate doing it. I have to, though.
Excellent IDU.....time to take control of your own life and for me to do the same! It may not be fun, but it is the path forward that we have to take. No choice in that one. Godd luck and stay in touch.
IDU,
I am so impressed by the courage you are showing in this last post. It is very difficult, but you will be okay and make it. I always let my kids know what is happening is my decision. I am sure it felt good to let them know that.
It is her choice. You are so right. I am glad you are making the choices you know are right for you and the kids.
It is difficult for you I know, but be proud of yourself and the dignity you have shown throughout your sitch. That is very important in the end.
Keep going strong!
It is difficult for you I know, but be proud of yourself and the dignity you have shown throughout your sitch. That is very important in the end.
Unfortunately, dignity was in short supply in the early part of my sitch. I am getting some of it back.
I posted some time ago that when you finally have the courage to look at yourself and make improvements where needed, things start to change. I have more confidence at work and have been rewarded with bonuses, etc. The owner has told me when my manager retires, he wants me to take the job. Now, that's not going to be for a couple of years, but it is nice to hear. My band is going good, I have reconnected with friends, and am just more confident in general. Yes, I want my W to join me in a new and improved M that could be better than before. She woke me up. My life and look on life has improved.
It's all good!
Well, I guess I'm officially joining the ranks of the rest of my friends here. I think I have dropped the rope completely.
Last night, W says she got offered her old job back and the Dr. office. She wanted my opinion if she should take it or not. We talked about it and I agreed that it sounded good. Then she said the manager at the restaurant she has been working at asked her if she would like to work in a different location almost 2 hrs. from home. She said it would be great money, we could pay some things off, etc. She said she would go on Sat. morning and work a double shift until 11:00 and spend the night and do the same Sun. and be home after that. I said I didn't really like that idea and she charged right in about not trusting her and we need the money, on and on.
She then asks, what we were going to do about us. She couldn't afford to live on her own and neither could I. I told her I could, don't worry about me. She said she was working to save money and pay bills but didn't think we could work things out. I said I was not interested in hanging around while she stockpiled money away, if she wanted out she needed to go. It turned into a R discussion and I did pretty good but did get sucked in a few times trying to defend myself. I backed off after telling her I didn't want this, we could fix things with help. I found myself trying to talk her into it so I stopped.
I took my ring off and put it on the counter. "This is your decision. If you are not committed to trying, we will tell the kids that this is what you want. It has nothing to do with them, we both still love them but I will not continue to lie to them about where you are and why you aren't home and why I don't come to family functions anymore. This is it, your choice."
She backed off and said she just didn't know, she said she didn't think she had done anything wrong and I got sucked in again. We rehashed some old stuff about the super and school board and coaching. She said I kept bringing the same stuff up all the time. I said that's because you have never owned up to your part of our problems. I agreed that the super was not the root of the problems but he and school stuff was a stumbling block to us healing. She continued to deny everything and I realized what was happening and stopped.
The kids came in from outside and we got them showered and ready for bed. No further R talk that night.
This morning after getting the kids on the bus, I was getting in my car and said, "I want to apologize for not listening to what you were telling me you wanted last night. You have told me that we can't fix this and I agree. I will contact my L and start the D process."
She said, "I just don't see how we can fix it."
I said, "That's really a shame but I agree." Then I got in my car and left.
So, the rings are off and I guess it's full steam ahead. She doesn't know my L has been working on things already. She seems to almost want to try but then backs down. I validated all that I could and only argued a few times before stopping myself. She seems to be fearing some monetary things and maybe being without the kids but won't or can't commit to trying to work on us.
It seem like I've been here too many times and she doesn't think I will follow through, I guess. Well, I am. Yeah, I was hoping to not have to actually file, but I have to do it. She has made the choice. I have chose not to be a babysitter for her and not be a doormat. We could make things better and she seems so close sometimes. I guess that's how she wants me to feel so I don't do anything and she can keep doing what she is doing and not have to change.
If there is anything I can do different or anything I did wrong that I can correct, please let me know. I'm doing my best.
Is there still a chance? IDK. I hope so, but it's out of my hands. She has to take the leap of faith now.
I have taken a different leap. I hope I know what I am doing.
IDU,
Your WAW has to fish or cut bait. She's worried about money, losing access to the kids. Everything really but your R. Wake up calls like being served, living on your own, etc. are powerful.
She needs to see that you're going to be ok without her. That your not afraid. That you're confident about YOUR future.
You're right, Pinhead.
I really have to stop hoping one of these "wake up calls" will actually wake her up. The door is and has been open for her. I must accept what is in front of me and, somehow, not lose all hope. I can't quite do it. I am losing hope. I am not as scared as I thought I would be. I didn't sleep very well and spent the night and morning praying and thinking.
Didn't get any answers that I really liked. I know I don't have to like something to go ahead and do what needs done.
I don't think my W thought I would follow thru on the D either. I think you did everything right except offer your opinion on her employment. I think staying out of those discussions are easier after the D is filed. I just keep telling my self I have no say in what my soon to be EX WIFE does so I am not going to comment on it even if asked. All that happens is you give your opinion that differs from hers and now you are in an argument about something that she is going to do on her own anyway.
Detach! GAL! Do not think about her (try hard) as much. Keep busy!
Detach! GAL! Do not think about her (try hard) as much. Keep busy!
I know, I know.
The longer the day goes on, the more anxious I get. Anxious, nervous, sad, whatever. It is starting to feel like the day of the bomb all over again. This time I know how to control myself a little better.
Take action in the face of fear, right? I know what I have to do.
Is it alright if I keep telling myself that?
IDU,
There is always a chance. Don't give up hope. You still have to do what you think is best.
It is about the action you take. Do not make threats or suggest something if you do not really want to follow through. Make sure what you are willing to do before you tell her that you are going to do it. It will just become a viscious cycle for you and cause you more heartache and pain in the end.
I am not saying to divorce, but I am saying do not bring it up again unless you will follow through with it.
She will continue to respond the way she has because she does not believe you are serious.
I hope I do not come off sounding unsympathetic to you because I really want things to work out for you in your sitch. I am sorry for what you have been going through. It is so difficult and hurtful for you and the kids. I feel your pain, and I hope you come up with a way to be okay for your sake and the kids.
My thoughts and prayers are with you.
I have given up hope IDU, but I am not necessarily suggesting you do the same. You just have to come to accept that whatever will be will be. Somehow we have to detach our STRONG emotions from our hope. We can be hopeful, but not so hopeful as to pin our happiness to it. It is difficult, but look at what she has done and continues to do. Can you really love someone who continues to do this to you?
Keep telling yourself whatever you need to to stay strong and focused.
I'm sorry that it has gotten to this point for you, but you have to keep moving forward with your life.
Hang in there man!
Thanks, Dan and LSG.
I have trouble balancing hope with acceptance.
I don't love her right now and can't while she is acting the way she is.
I know that most of the success stories on here have gotten to this point and even further. Greek moved out, Puppy filed, Steve, Sandi, etc. I know this isn't the end. When the rings came off, God, it was like being punched in the gut. It's getting worse as the day goes on.
I will be okay, I know. I just have to suffer through this stage and carry on to the next. Lead and be strong. Don't let her see that I'm hurting.
IDU - U r doing great!! I see you getting stronger with every post. Remember this is NOT about YOU it is HER decision.
Also remember she doesnt know what she doesnt know. She thinks she knows, but has no idea... Until you experience it for yourself it's nothing compared to what family and friends are telling her.
The sooner YOU take CONTROL of the situation the better. Figure out a co-parenting arragement asap. If you haven't already. Show her what life as a single mom will really b like. Do exactly what Steve suggested and Puppy and every other pro on this site suggest which is tell her "YOU do not want to be in an open marriage and if she does then she needs to move out asap. YOU WILL NOT BE DISRESPECTED LIKE THIS. YOU will not let HER DISRESPECT YOUR FAMILY like this.
Get a copy of Hold on to your Nuts if you haven't already. Become the man you want to be. Not a nasty, disrespectful, jerk like she and her girlfriends are expecting, but a STRONG, CONFIDENT, RESPECTFUL MAN that has BOUNDARIES and SELF-RESPECT that will not be trespassed on by anyone. Let alone a insecure, social butterfly that is being brainwashed by her teen-age hormones.
Think Popeye. "I've had all I can stands, I can't stands no more! Time to eat your spinach!!
Hold the line. PMA
You know how you roll you pen in your hand and it makes a clicking sound on your ring? Yeah, I've been doing that all day and there is no clicking sound anymore.
I know there are much worse things than this to come. Such a small reminder of what isn't anymore.
Thanks, PMA.
I know everything you posted is true. I have become stronger. It is her decision. Just not feeling so strong right now. We have had this convo before. I guess the ring thing is bothering me. I have wondered for months why she was still wearing it. It shouldn't be that big of a shock.
My W continued to wear hers until I asked her why she was. Then both our rings came off pretty quickly. She is still doing my laundry and I can't figure out why. She is also cooking meals and generally acting friendly, but I still can't wait to leave. only 2 more weeks.
Dont focus on the negatives and what you could be losing.
Instead focus on what a STRONG and CONFIDENT WARRIOR you are becoming for YOU and YOUR CHILDREN. A MAN that YOUR FAMILY will be PROUD of.
Keep your chin up and keep fighting for your family. Stop giving your WAS so much POWER and CONTROL. Cut the puppet strings. She is not capable of making rational decision while under this chemically induced spell. So dont give her so much credit.
Capiche
It just adds some finality to the sitch.
I have to get under control before I go home. I'm letting my mind wander. Our 4 kids.
God
Dont focus on the negatives and what you could be losing.
Instead focus on what a STRONG and CONFIDENT WARRIOR you are becoming for YOU and YOUR CHILDREN. A MAN that YOUR FAMILY will be PROUD of.
Keep your chin up and keep fighting for your family. Stop giving your WAS so much POWER and CONTROL. Cut the puppet strings. She is not capable of making rational decision while under this chemically induced spell. So dont give her so much credit.
Capiche
I like this a lot.
I have given her the power for too long.
Thanks so much.
I wish I didn't need this place so much but I sure do today.
Thanks.
You're welcome. Yes you have and knowing is have the battle so all you have to do is CHOOSE to CHANGE it.
You will not be DEFINED by the PAST but by the FUTURE.
The rings dont mean squat if the commitment is not there. They are symbols of a strong and loving marriage. She doesn't deserve to where it now anyway. Someday she might deserve it, but not today.
Get that book and Man up!! Your kids are counting on you to save your family. Whether it's with your WAW or not.
PMA
The rings dont mean squat if the commitment is not there. They are symbols of a strong and loving marriage. She doesn't deserve to where it now anyway. Someday she might deserve it, but not today.
I know you're right. I think that is what's bothering me so much today, the fact that she took hers off. She said it was because she had been cleaning house. I know it means nothing if the commitment isn't there. It really hurts, that's all. I know, poor IDU got his feelings hurt, get over it. I will. My kids need me and I need to be stronger.
The school board Pres. called me at work today and said he wanted to meet and talk. We talked for a minute at my church picnic a couple of weeks ago and he said he would call. It will be interesting to hear what he has to say. Odd timing. I really hope it's something that will help my position in the coming months.
You've passed through the next door in the emotional evolution of the LBS - barreling forward in doing what is right and not stopping. So don't be too worried about the queasy feeling; every time we take a step forward it is going to feel a bit scary. You will adjust and soon feel confident and serene again, especially if you continue to pray.
God won't screw you over. Know that. He is just as upset over the state of your R as you are. Hand your wife over to Him. If she decides to wake up, so be it. But don't expect it - some people just aren't willing to accept the grace that God offers.
You've taken a big step, and soon you will feel prepared for whatever way your situation falls. That's pretty much where I am now. I really don't want to get divorced, but I will face that challenge if it comes to that, and plow forward with God leading the way.
You've passed through the next door in the emotional evolution of the LBS - barreling forward in doing what is right and not stopping. So don't be too worried about the queasy feeling; every time we take a step forward it is going to feel a bit scary. You will adjust and soon feel confident and serene again, especially if you continue to pray.
God won't screw you over. Know that. He is just as upset over the state of your R as you are. Hand your wife over to Him. If she decides to wake up, so be it. But don't expect it - some people just aren't willing to accept the grace that God offers.
You've taken a big step, and soon you will feel prepared for whatever way your situation falls. That's pretty much where I am now. I really don't want to get divorced, but I will face that challenge if it comes to that, and plow forward with God leading the way.
It's really good to here from you, Pigskin.
I pray often. I really try to turn it all over to God. I'm afraid I just don't know how. It is dropping the rope. Realizing I have no control over her. I want God to give me what I want; my M back better than it was before. I know God doesn't work that way. 'Thy will be done, not my will.' I know God won't screw me over.
I start thinking I am prepared and I have done things that I have been told to do. I then start second guessing myself and wonder if I have pushed her away for good. I know that what works is what is the hardest to do. I admit, I haven't really done anything that has worked so far. This feels so bad. I guess that means it will work the best.
I am at a loss today. Thanks for checking in.
As a wise forum member has in their sig, it's not about doing what feels right, it's about doing what works.
As a wise forum member has in their sig, it's not about doing what feels right, it's about doing what works.
God bless Sandi!!
If I would have listened to her sooner, I may be in a better place right now. Maybe not, but I would have saved myself a lot of time and heartache along the way.
I want to thank everyone for helping today. If you couldn't tell, I am pretty down right now. Back to feeling like I am running out of time, or actually out of it. I have been here long enough to know that is not neccessarilly true. Even if it is, I tried.
I'm feeling a little better now. I will feel better tomorrow and the day after that. I will love my kids with all my heart and soul. I will be the parent they can look up to and always be there for them.
Back to doing what works and doesn't feel right.
Keep your chin up and keep fighting for your family. Stop giving your WAS so much POWER and CONTROL. Cut the puppet strings. She is not capable of making rational decision while under this chemically induced spell. So dont give her so much credit.
Well put. She doesn't define you. You do!
Thanks, Piano.
I am(way to slowly)taking back the control from her. I have my shortcomings as we all do. I never realized how co-dependant I had become. I think it was Puppy who pointed that out in one of the first couple of posts on my thread.
Journaling-
Kids had their first full day of school. I got home and ate with them and then went to cut grass. Had to run to the store later and told them all good-night. W asked where I was going. I said I had to get some prescriptions filled. She said she could do it tomorrow for me. I said thanks, but I have to get used to doing stuff like this on my own.
I got home before 10:00 and got in the shower. When I came out into the bedroom, W was sitting in the bed. She said she had something to tell me and I was going to be pissed. The short version is the twins asked her if she was dating the super. She acted shocked and said of course not, mom and dad are married, blah, blah, blah. Who told you that? They said some kids at school.
So that led into her adamantly denying doing anything inappropriate with the super at school or any other time. I started off very calm. I said, yes, I was very mad that the kids are becoming more involved in this, but I wasn't surprised. She kept saying she didn't understand where the rumors were coming from, she had never cheated, and had never given anyone the impression that anything was going on. She blames it on small town gossip. I told her to believe whatever she wanted, but she had told me all along I was the only person who thought anything was happening between the two of them. She was lying all along and I was done with the lies.
So this turned into about an hour and a half bitch fest that really didn't accomplish anything. I again validated, listened and agreed with her. I know I messed up a few times and I know I let it go on for way too long. I finally said,"Look, you don't have to apologize to me for the past. I'm tired of this same conversation. You will still not admit to anything, it's someone else's fault that these rumors are going around. I don't care. If you can't tell me that you want to give this a 100% commitment and try to fix it, I will continue with proceeding with a D. Your choice. The door has always been open for you to come back." She then said she had never left. I rolled my eyes, put my hand over my heart and opened it like a door and said,"I mean the door to my heart," and smiled. She smiled through her tears. I then said the, I don't want to be with someone who doesn't want to be with me and some other DB stuff. I went to bed without waiting for an answer.
So, I know I let it go on too long. Her lies are starting to catch up to her and I need to leave her alone with them and let her deal and feel them. She is still in denial and I can't wake her up. It has to come from her. She says she has done nothing wrong.
This has been going on for almost a year. I looked back through my whole thread and I realize I was pretty much just sitting there waiting. I would do a few things that were recommended and fell like I had the world by the tail. Then I would revert to being scared because my sitch didn't turn around. Now, I can actually SEE the script happening right before my eyes. It still catches me off guard a little and I have to have my response to her thought out ahead of time and have it well rehearsed. The things she is saying is almost word for word script. It's either the first time I've noticed or the first time she has started using these words. I can see how some of the masters here can tell the future and predict what will happen.
I don't know if this can be saved. Her house of cards is starting to fall down. That will either wake her up or it won't. Her lies are catching up to her. That's all good. I have to stop getting in such long talks. I'm much better at listening but still catch myself trying to make my case and explain my point of view. This is not the time for that. I know.
I thought I had been DBing all along. Maybe I'm just getting started.
I feel the same way, that I have been dbing all along, but feel that I am just starting now, and with the D and living apart maybe that is my sign to start.
Very nice introspection IDU. I'm glad you are seeing the script and preparing yourself for the future. Apparently I am not that perceptive.
W and I got into a fight last night too, over money. When I complained about the court ordered payments a few weeks ago, she said, I can't help it, that what the court decided. They do this every day and that is what they think is necessary. Now she wants money additional to the court order. I should have said, I can't help it, that what the court decided. They do this every day and that is what they think is necessary.
I know I didn't accomplish anything good last night either, but maybe we are both at the point where we have just had enough.
I don't know if your W is lying about an affair or not, but I would say it was definitely and EA and definitely inappropriate. She needs to ownt that. I really like the way you are handling these conversations and I need to do the same.
W and I got into it a while back and started talking about OM again. She denied continuing to call him after she said it would stop, so I called her on some instances and asked her to deny them. She couldn't and didn't. She just stood there looking at me. There is nothing else to do for me now except to figure out the different financial scenarios about how this might play out and prepare for battle.
I am so looking forward to being separated.
Hang in there men. This is all very difficult stuff. I am having a hard time trying to be her friend when she continues to treat me this way and then ask for more money. Take a look at my last post and let me know what you think.
Good luck and thanks for your support!
IDU - Nice job sticking to your guns. Dont let her insult your intelligence about the super. It's not worth your time. Just keep on stating that you are not interested in an OPEN MARRIAGE and if she is then she can hit the road. You pretty much covered this by saying I dont want to be w someone that doesnt want to be w me. So great job.
She is still in denial, like most ADDICTS are. So just keep on sticking to the main point of either you want to WORK on this or not. Nothing else matters. If not then continue with the court stuff. Keep on slapping her in the face with REALITY by asking about setting up CO-PARENTING schedules so you can continue your GAL. Instead of telling her you are running out for a prescription tell her you are just going out and stop by and see some friends. Create some mystery. Create the feeling of intrigue and wonder in her.
Hold the line. PMA
I did make one big mistake. While she was denying everything, I asked her about an e-mail she sent to her twins group that she is pres. of. She send one out each month and starts it off with a "Greetings from the President" and then lists the months event. Anyway, this one started with her apologizing for being and month behind and the explanation was this:
As most of you know, I am the volleyball and track coach at my kids' school. Last year I was the assistant coach for both sports. This year I am the head coach of both and also the boys' assistant basketball coach. I've been very busy and just haven't had time to get the newsletter put together.
She is NOT the head coach of anything but track and they have two meets a year. She is NOT any type of coach at all with basketball. One of her big excuses to calling and txting the super so much is it's all about sports because he is also the Athletic Director. She is an asst. coach in v'ball, not head coach.
She denied writing anything like this and I screwed up and told her I would show her a copy of it that I had in a file at work. "You have a file of my e-mails at work?" Uh-oh. So I said that a friend who had been through a D told me to make and keep notes about anything I might find useful later in court. I told her I have the dates and times that she has stayed out, the times she has left the kids with a sitter to go have a few beers, the times she has come home drunk, when I pick the kids up from school and she stays and doesn't come home until late, etc. She was shocked and asked why I would keep things like that. Was I going to try to get custody? I said I was simply protecting myself. She said that she had agreed to 50-50. I said that she agreed to that now, but that could change.
It happened before I new it. Oh, well. She has another thing to think about while she is mulling over our kids getting involved in her lies. I have my back covered. Probably not as much as I should but hopefully enough. She doesn't know what I have or don't have and I told her it may never need to see the light of day, it was her choice.
Just got back from meeting with the school board pres. I will post more later, if anyone cares, but it went well.
W has a rude awakening coming if what he tells me is true.
I can't get my mind around my mood swings here lately. I'm down then up. I'm sure I still think too much about my W and what she's thinking. Her lies are catching up to her. Right now, and I know it may change, I'm not really sure I would take her back if she wanted to come back. I learned a lot tonite and, while I wasn't surprised, some of it still came as a shock to me. This really isn't the person I married.
I do still want a new M with her if she can give me that. If not, I'm imagining a pretty good life without her. I'll have my kids at least 50% of the time and have some free time to myself. Money will be very tight. I have supportive family and friends and will make it work.
I pray to God all the time now to give me strength and to heal my family. It's no longer for my W to come back. I take comfort in what Pigskin said: God will not desert me. Remember that old Garth Brooks song, Unanswered Prayers.
....just because he doesn't answer doesn't mean he don't care.
Some of God's greatest gift's
Are unanswered prayers.
I have to stop asking for what I think is best and listen to what He is telling me and what He knows is best.
IDU,
Keep up the good spirits. It's normal to have ups and downs. I'm going to MC on Monday, yet I'm as low as I have been in weeks. Just try to focus on the positives; Coach says we can change our feeling through our thoughts, so I'm trying to do that. Give it a whirl.
IDU,
The downs and ups are normal to me in my sitch. I just try to go with them and not let it get me down for too long.
I am sorry to hear that the board meeting shed some new light on your sitch. These are not the people we married because they would not be doing the things they are doing to us.
God will answer your prayers in what is best for you and your family. It may not always be what we expect.
In the end, you have to do what you think is best.
Do have a nice day and try to keep your mind off of the negative to see the positives in your life.
When you find yourself in a hole the first thing you need to do is stop digging. Once you mentioned the file at work you were knee deep.
It would take too long to go over what we talked about last night. The SB Pres. basically confirmed all of my suspicions and said that he had warned the super a year ago to stop whatever was going on. He also said that they had some of the same problems with the previous super and my W. She would put herself in the middle of things and take the super's side in every conflict. It caused a lot of tensions between the members. He said he has been asked about my W and the super at church and just around town. Some of it may be petty stuff, IDK. I do know it helps me with a timeline of when our problems started and why.
One of the members had been defending her pretty strongly. It seems she had been telling him things about me that were not true while denying she and the super had any contact outside of school. He has since learned that it was all BS and is recomending that she be relieved of her coaching duties. Teachers have complained and the super had her back and denied things. The scope of her lies is surprising me and I kind of expected it. There's no way I can prove anything physical for the courts, but the EA, to me, is just as bad.
I guess all I can do is press forward with the D paperwork and wait for more things to come to light. Her house of cards is starting to come down. I hope she thinks it is worth it.
When you find yourself in a hole the first thing you need to do is stop digging. Once you mentioned the file at work you were knee deep.
Knee deep?
Neck deep, at least.
I thought I was doing really good, too. I validated and did everything I was supposed to. Then I slipped up and said this. Does it really matter, though? She has not done one thing to stop this or even slow it down. I'm sure she thought I would just go along with things as long as she wanted me to. Now she knows I have been keeping track of things she says and does. It's too late to take it back now and I don't care. I have to protect myself and the kids.
IDU,
Well, I finally finished reading your story. Man.
You know, I'm not sure how I never hooked into your thread, but I'm almost glad that I read it in it's entirety. Dude you are an inspirational figure. I think it's easy to read along and not see the whole story and the evolution of how we became. I'm not all the way there but thank you for the roadmap. I may need it soon.
Say, I revived an old post I found that you might find useful gong forward. It's called "how to be strong and loving" check it out.
I'll stay up to speed now.
Cheers.
Hey, AG-
Thanks for stopping by.
I have read your posts on some of the same threads I usually post on; Dan, Pinhead, etc. You have some really good advice and insights. You seem, to me, to be one of the naturals at this.
I have read your thread and followed along from the beginning. You're right, all of this would be shocking if it wasn't so common.
I don't understand this, though:
Dude you are an inspirational figure.
I'm serious. I have made so many mistakes and have been afraid of doing what I was told by the vets. The only inspiration I have given people is what not to do. If that helps then I guess that's a good thing.
I am getting there. When I finally started exposing her lies to family and friends, she went bat-sh!t crazy. She was livid. Said I was lying to them and throwing her under the bus to make her look bad and to turn everyone against her. I have done a better job of staying in control and not arguing with her, validating her feeling and calling B.S. when needed. I have been to see a L and we are filling out paperwork. Nothing has been filed yet and I'm still unsure(scared) of doing so. That being said, I realize that only now, almost a year after the bomb, she is finally feeling some consequences of her actions. The kids came home on the first day of school and asked if she and the super were dating. Her mom hung up the phone on her when she told her she was staying away from the house all weekend to go work at a bar out of town. Her sisters have told her she needs to stay home with her H and kids and fix things, she is not 21yo anymore and has responsibilities to her family.
Anyway, what I'm getting at is her house of cards (lies) is starting to tumble, and I know part of the reason is the things I have finally done to expose and not put up with crappy behavior from her. I would have been in much better shape if I would have done it sooner. Fear held me back. Fear is keeping me undecided about actually filing. Not good, I know. Doing the hard things is working. Even if she doesn't decide to come back, things would be better than they are now. I have no doubt.
Puppy, Sandi, Rob, Gucci, Coach, Greek, Steve, etc. are all right. They all tell us this stuff when we first get here but we all think our version of the sitch is different. There are variances but, at the core, they are all pretty much the same. We don't do what they tell us, yet they keep coming back and trying to explain to us why, if anything will work, what they are telling us to do will. It's hard to hear and it sucks. I didn't listen. Now here I am. Still not in a very good place.
But I think, finally, I am getting there.
The rings are off and I am pressing forward. Probably not as fast as I should. I continue to get support here from LSG, Pigskin, Dan, Pinhead, and others. I wish I didn't need it so much but, right now, I do.
Thanks to all and thank you, Goodman, for following along. Maybe we can help each other. That's what we're all her for, right?
BTW, have you fried up any fish, yet?
IDK,
I respectfully disagree. Maybe I have a different outlook than most, but to me, the inspirational figures in history are not the people/teams/armies that succeed from the outset. It's the ones who get their head handed to them, sometimes over and over, sometimes through their own fault or failings, but still persevere. Even in the face of certain annihilation, they pick up their gear and advance.
Many times, the inspirational figures contemplate giving up. Sometimes they even do it, but something or someone changes their mind and they summon the strength to rise up and charge into the breach once more. The truly inspirarational are not giants. They're frail, weak humans just like us, with the same fears and pain. They make the same stupid mistakes and suffer for them. Just like us. But they NEVER give up. They get beat and bloodied and still keep trying to prevail, because that's the way they're wired.
So, I call BS on your appraisal sir. You will either be victorious or go down swinging. That's what we should all aspire to.
Cheers.
"It's easy to grin,
when your ship's come in
and you got the world at your feet
and the stock market beat.
But the man worthwhile
is the man who can smile
when his shorts are too tight in the seat."
Feeling froggy on a Friday afternoon.
that's a goodin
"It's easy to grin,
when your ship's come in
and you got the world at your feet
and the stock market beat.
But the man worthwhile
is the man who can smile
when his shorts are too tight in the seat."
Feeling froggy on a Friday afternoon.
Ha! Coach, you're the best!
I appreciate it very much, Goodman.
That's a great way to start the weekend.
Tomorrow, while W is working at the bar, I am taking the kids boating and fishing. Same plans for Sun. Camping, boating and fishing with the four people in this world who mean the most to me. What's not to like about that?
IDK,
I respectfully disagree. Maybe I have a different outlook than most, but to me, the inspirational figures in history are not the people/teams/armies that succeed from the outset. It's the ones who get their head handed to them, sometimes over and over, sometimes through their own fault or failings, but still persevere. Even in the face of certain annihilation, they pick up their gear and advance.
Many times, the inspirational figures contemplate giving up. Sometimes they even do it, but something or someone changes their mind and they summon the strength to rise up and charge into the breach once more. The truly inspirarational are not giants. They're frail, weak humans just like us, with the same fears and pain. They make the same stupid mistakes and suffer for them. Just like us. But they NEVER give up. They get beat and bloodied and still keep trying to prevail, because that's the way they're wired.
Like Paul. Or Peter. Or Lincoln.
GREAT post, Goodman.
1/2
Three Whistles and a hook
Puppy
Journaling-
W went to work this weekend at a bar over 70mi from our home. It's owned by the same people that own the one she started working at close to home a month or so ago. They promised her big money and money seems to be her #1 priority right now. Funny how it took her draining the savings and being called on it for her to start worrying about it. She had originally said she was going to spend the night with her manager (who is recently divorced) and be back home late Sun. and get up at 3:00a.m. to go to her regular job. She wouldn't see the kids for three days. I called B.S. on the whole thing but told her it was her decision and I didn't care anymore what she did.
She did work but did not spend the night. Her parents also called B.S. on her and said basically the same thing that I did. It's too far to drive and too much time away from her family.
As I was getting the kids ready for church Sun. morning, she told me that her dad had been taken to the ER the night before and was in the ICU with pneumonia, and a serious blood infection. She had talked to one of her sisters and got the story. I told her to go ahead and go to the hospital and I would take care of the kids and not to worry about anything here at home. She said there was really nothing she could do there and was going to go work at the bar like she had planned. She said she would call and let me know what was going on and would try to get off early and go to the hospital later in the day.
I saw her brother in church with his daughter. He asked if my W was at the hospital. I said no, she's at work. He said a few choice words and shook his head. He said he was going up there right after church. I offered to watch his daughter, who is the same age as my twins, and he said that would be great.
So, I had five kids all day Sunday. We went swimming and had a hot dog roast, rode four wheelers and had a blast. He picked her up @7:00 and told me I could stop by and see my FIL no matter what my W said and thanked me for watching my niece.
W got home from the hospital @8:15 as I was finishing showers and getting the kids ready for bed. We talked about her dad for a while and she said she told him I was praying for him and that I was at home taking care of the kids. She wanted me to call my mom and dad and see if they could watch the kids tonite and tomorrow so she could spend the night at the hospital with her mom. It was no big deal yesterday and now she is going to spend the night. Whatever. Her dad is very sick and she is maybe feeling guilty. The Dr. told the family if they would have waited until the next morning to bring him in, he probably wouldn't have made it.
I guess I will go into support mode. They are still my family, too for now. My BIL called me this morning at work and said he would pick me up tomorrow at work to go to the hospital if I wanted to and not to worry about what W says. They all know what going on and they are all on my side. That's good to hear even though I know that could change at any time. I told him I appreciated the offer and will take him up on it.
W has been more talkative and friendly lately. Still not wearing her ring and I know I shouldn't really be concerned about that. I am having a great time with the kids, doing some shopping for myself for the first time in a long time and taking care of business.
Please say a prayer for my FIL. He's in pretty bad shape and could use them more than me, right now.
Thanks to all for the support.
IDU
done.
I prayed for both of you (AND your W).
Be strong buddy.
IDU,
My prayers are with you and FIL. I wish the best for you and your family.
I am glad you are doing something for you too.
Keep it up.
FIL still in ICU. He is doing better and they are planning on moving him to a regular room soon. Still not sure what is causing the blood infection. They are going to keep him and watch him closely and do a battery of tests. He's not out of the woods, yet.
Since the rings came off, W has been more civil that she has in months. When she got home from the hospital last night,(she was planning on spending the night and I was not expecting her home) she filled me in on her dad then showed me her hand and said that it had been hurting all day and that she felt like crap. Her hand is swollen and her fingers are numb. She said it has been working farther up her arm as the day goes on. She asked me to look at it and feel it to see if there was fever in it. I did and was/am concerned. I haven't touched her in months. I told her she should go to the Dr. She said she was going today.
She went to the hospital again this morning with her mom and txt me about her dad. She didn't mention anything about her going to the Dr. I don't know if I should have, but I asked her if she went to the Dr. and, if so, what her said. She answered back that she did and they took blood and x-rays and told her that she had some sort of infection and were running tests on her blood and would let her know asap. I told her to let me know if she heard anything and if she needed me to do anything to help. I have vacation days left and could take a half day and get the kids, etc. She said she was fine and would keep me informed.
I hope it's not whatever her dad has. I'm trying to be supportive without putting up with BS. Haven't really done so well at balancing the two in the past. Is she cake eating? Is she relaxing because I have finally stopped pressuring her? IDK. I do know I have to be supportive while her dad is still very sick and let the rest sit on the back burner for a while. Maybe this is the key to detaching that I have missed for so long.
IDU,
I wish the best for your FIL, and I hope your W is okay too.
I think you were right to ask about her going to the Dr. This is not the time to worry about right or wrong. You care about your W, and you should be concerned. The other things can wait.
My prayers are with you and your family.
I had a few of these emergency type events concerning my wife in my situation as well. I think it is best to put the "situation" aside at these times and offer loving support, as you would to any other close family member. It's not pursuit, it's concern.
Remember you are still called to love your W as a fellow human being, no matter what she does. That doesn't mean "tough love" is not permitted, but I don't think it is appropriate when health and other serious family issues arise.
Thanks, Pigskin. It's always good to hear from you.
I have been supportive and offering help, whatever it might be, during this illness with her dad. I ask how he is, if he's comfortable, if he's in a good mood, ready to come home, etc. I also ask how she is feeling. She should get her blood tests back today.
When I got home last night, she was outside. I said, hi, and so did she. I asked how she was feeling as I was walking up the porch steps. She started telling me so I walked back down the steps, got a little closer to her and looked her in the eye and listened. She explained what happened at the Dr. that day and what her thought and how she still felt really bad. I asked a few questions but mostly listened. We went in the house and the kids ran up to me as they always do. I talked to them about their day and played for a few minutes.
I had band practice and offered to stay home to watch the kids so she could lie down and rest. She said she would be fine, to go ahead and go. I left and had a great time, as always.
Got home @12:30 and she was in our bed. It was the first time since April, I think. Our youngest son was there, too. IDK if he went to bed with her or came in later. I laid down and went to sleep. I know it doesn't mean anything and I know she didn't feel good, but thought it worth mentioning.
Just got a txt from BIL that said FIL should get out of hospital sometime this evening. That is great news.
Tonight she's supposed to work at the bar. Unless she calls in sick. So I will have homework and showers and have to find time to cut the grass. We got some rain the last couple of days and it is starting to look like a jungle. I have about 4acres to cut so I don't think I'll get everything done tonight.
It feels like I am finally getting the hang of letting go. I have to make sure to make my actions continue to match my feeling. Or make my actions override my feeling. I'm sure they will change again. It hasn't been a perfect, happy house, but the last couple of weeks have at least been civil. I still wonder if it's my attitude or her getting caught in lies or a combination of both. Whatever it is, I must keep it going.
It's probably a combination of both IDU. Just keep doing what you are doing. Sleeping in "our" bed has to be seen as a good sign, right? I know I would welcome it myself as a positive step, just remember not to get too overzealous or you will push her away again. That has got to be hard as I would want to throw my arms around her and just cuddle for a while, but I would have to fight the urge.
Good luck IDU and keep up the good work! You are doing great.
just remember not to get too overzealous or you will push her away again.
Been there, done that, never going back again!
Yeah, the urge to do so is still there, but not as strong as it once was. KWIM?
Thanks, Dan.
KWYM buddy.......hang tough.
Just a quick update on FIL.
He did come home last night and is resting comfortably. He is very weak but very glad to be home. After all the tests, the general concensus is that he has mono. If that is true and the Dr.'s aren't just guessing, then he is well on his way to recovery. Of course, mono can be very contagious so we all have to watch ourselves and our kids for signs of it. And it's very possible that my W has come down with it.
She called in to work last night because she said her whole body aches and she just feels like crap.
When we finished supper, I helped finish the kids' homework, did the dishes (she told me to leave them for later), went out and cut some grass and came in and gave the kids showers and put them to bed. W was asleep on the couch and I left her there.
This morning she was very grouchy. I wasn't making the kids' lunches right, didn't get them the right clothes to wear, and just nitpicking. I didn' get mad or pout. I didn't reply at all. There was enough to do with getting four kids ready that I just moved on to the next thing. Odd how when I get them ready bymyself, which is five out of seven days a week, there are no fights or arguements about eating or brushing teeth or anything. It goes smooth as glass. (Mostly!)
Was she grouchy because she didn't feel good? IDK. You would think she would appreciate the help. I don't force my help on her, if she wants to do it alone, I simply move on to something else. There is no shortage of things to do. I take care of things that I have control of. Otherwise, I do my best to stay happy and upbeat and let her not bother me.
Nice job. You are getting better at this.
IDU,
It is good that you are not reacting to your W's mood swings. She is not feeling good, so it may be some of the reason she is grouchy. It is not an excuse.
It is good that you are just do what is best for you without confrontation.
She probably wants to control the house, and it is something that needs to realize she can't always do.
I am not sure that I am doing so well today giving my perspective. I just hope that you keep the PMA.
Journaling
W worked at her regular job Sat. and went straight to the bar for that job when she got off. 1 1/2 hour drive. The kids and I worked in the yard, did laundry, dishes, watched a movie and just had a good time. She txt me Sat nite at 11:00 and said she was headed home. I answered, okay. I went to bed and she got home between 12:30 and 1:00, took a shower, got dressed and had to leave for regular job at 3:30. Not much, if any sleep.
Took the kids to church Sun and went for doughnuts after. I was making lunch when she came home. S4 was telling her what the priest had said to him that morning during the service and I laughed and attempted to tell her what he was talking about. She started down the hall and I shut up and continued cooking. She came back in, crossed her arms and said, "And....." I quickly told the story and she just walked off. No grin, no nothing. And it was a cute story.
She went and passed out on the couch and the kids and I went outside. She got up a couple hours later and started bitching about being out of groceries and toilet paper, etc. She works at a place that has all of this. I told her I expected that she would pick some things up before she came home. She griped some more and I walked off.
Later, she made supper and we all came in to eat. While I was helping S4 wash his hands, I could hear her complaining and saying how she worked all this extra time and what was the point, telling the boys to sit down so she could get supper on the table when they were trying to help. We ate and I started to help clean the table off when we were done as I always do. She opened the dishwasher and grabbed a skillet off of the top rack and threw it in the sink. She said, "What the hell is that doing in there? I guess I'll wash it the right way." After holding my tongue all day, I simply said, "W, the dishes from Fri and from all weekend are done, the laundry is all done, the floors are swept, the house is picked up. There is nothing for you to do but rest. If you don't like how I do things, next weekend, when you are gone all weekend, I will let everything pile up and you can do it all when you decide to come home." I said it sweet and kind and went back out with the kids.
We drove the 4-wheeler around the rest of the evening and I brought them in and gave them all showers and ready for bed. Put them in bed at 8:30 and I went to my room, took a shower and laid down to read for a while. Didn't hear a thing out of her after supper. That's just as well.
Now, I know she had to be worn out. I had the house and the kids taken care of. She didn't have to do anything. It's her choice to take this second job. We would be fine without it. She says she only needs four hours of sleep a night. B.S. She came home to a stress free home and ruined it in about 30 seconds.
I am almost to the point that I never thought I would be. I'm not so sure I want this M to be saved. I am not running away. My L and I are still doing the paperwork. It will take a while. I shouldn't feel down at all today. I do. Why? I know I still care, but it has been almost a year. I still can't get over her taking it out on the kids as much as she does me. None of this makes sense.
I take that back. It makes sense from what I've learned here. I don't fully understand it, though. I know her being mad at me is a good thing. (Thanks, Coach) When will it ever stop?
I, know; When I make it.
Just thinking out loud.
IDU,
It is good when the WAW is gone because at least you have fun with the kids and do not have to deal with the CB.
I know you still have feelings for your W and that may not change for now, but you are moving forward, and I think you are headed in the right direction.
I think you are detaching and doing it for yourself. As far as wanting to save your marriage, that will always be your choice.
I guess it is good thing that my STBXW was mad at me last night. I don't know what it means either.
I hope your W gets really mad if it will help you in your sitch.
It is your choice now.
Hang in there. My prayers are with you!
Thanks, LSG
We read it here all the time and I still am having trouble accepting it. We have to let go. I read Gucci's post to Pigskin and Coach chimed in. They are right and I just can't fully accept it. It's my own fault and my own weakness.
I can't expect to make any progress without doing what I really need to do. That includes accepting that this M may very well not end up like Coach's or Puppy's, etc. I do know that they had to do the hard work and didn't get to where they are today by doing the same things that I am. All the more reason to do it.
Thanks, LSG
We read it here all the time and I still am having trouble accepting it. We have to let go. I read Gucci's post to Pigskin and Coach chimed in. They are right and I just can't fully accept it. It's my own fault and my own weakness.
I can't expect to make any progress without doing what I really need to do. That includes accepting that this M may very well not end up like Coach's or Puppy's, etc. I do know that they had to do the hard work and didn't get to where they are today by doing the same things that I am. All the more reason to do it.
Maybe I'm not the best person to offer insight, as I like to think that I'm a vet now, but not above being corrected by those who have successfully DB'd.
Her getting no sleep sure isn't going to endear herself to you. I can't imagine anyone being able to be loving under those conditions. I'd be irritable too.
I just think you should do what I'm doing, which is get the process moving without any undue delays. The process is your clock. If she wants to try a hail mary pass and pull out a miracle victory, so much the better. At that point you tell her that all this BS is going to change on her part immediately because you are walking to the lawyer, pen in hand.
But she is quickly running out of time. You are sitting on the lead, in victory formation...
Thanks, Pigskin.
I'm sure you are right about her not having any rest. If I'm truthful with myself, it is probably some resentment showing through on my part. I don't want her working so far away and working the crazy hours. Yes, I do worry about her safety. Yes, I do think part of the reason she is doing it is so she won't have to be at home. She's not only not at home with me, but also the kids. They ask when Mom's going to be home.
Of course, if I have let go, whatever she does shouldn't bother me. All I can do is take care of the kids and the house and let her be.
I guess I'm just having one of those days. I am already getting over it. NBD.
Just a quick thing I was just thinking about.
My 25th high school reunion is this weekend. A girl that I went to school with has kids at our kids school and got my W's phone# and asked her if we were going. She told me this one day last week. I didn't really say anything and my first thought was, no way am I going alone. At my 10 yr reunion, my W was my girlfriend, at the 20th, she was my wife and mother of my three kids with one on the way, and now she is my STBXW. I didn't want to face anyone or face the questions of where my W was.
I have made up my mind to go alone. I didn't ask W if she was going or not, I know better. I will go and make my W think I can't wait to see everyone and that I will have a great time. I am open to having a great time and I hope I do. Maybe there will be some old flames in similar situations, you never know.
Just another reminder of what used to be.
Do you or do you not want to see people at this reunion?
That is the only question you need to ask yourself and answer.
Do you or do you not want to see people at this reunion?
That is the only question you need to ask yourself and answer.
Honestly, there are very few people that I want to see. I stay in touch with the ones that I want to. The rest of them really don't matter.
So, I guess the answer is, no.
For most people, reunions are tough because much of it is a show and tell, to show other people what a good picture-esq life you have. Perhaps that's why you initially felt anxious about showing up without your W?
I skipped all of my reunions (5 yr, 10 yr, 20 yr) but called the friends that I wanted to keep in touch with and caught up with them one on one. Maybe you can do the same and/or get them to get together separately before the actual reunion?
Just a quick thing I was just thinking about.
My 25th high school reunion is this weekend. A girl that I went to school with has kids at our kids school and got my W's phone# and asked her if we were going. She told me this one day last week. I didn't really say anything and my first thought was, no way am I going alone. At my 10 yr reunion, my W was my girlfriend, at the 20th, she was my wife and mother of my three kids with one on the way, and now she is my STBXW. I didn't want to face anyone or face the questions of where my W was.
I have made up my mind to go alone. I didn't ask W if she was going or not, I know better. I will go and make my W think I can't wait to see everyone and that I will have a great time. I am open to having a great time and I hope I do. Maybe there will be some old flames in similar situations, you never know.
Just another reminder of what used to be.
For my 20th, me and the 6 guys I was closest to in school (we're still really tight)rented a cabin at the resort where the reunion was held (9 miles from our school). NONE of us brought our wives; mostly because none of the wives went to our high school and really didn't know anyone. It was more to spare them the boredom, but served the dual purpose of letting us be high school jackasses again.
Even the women in our class were envious - saying "how in the hell did you pull off coming without your wives? Wish we could have done that!" People poured into our cabin for an afterparty when the reunion was over. Had a blast.
So I guess I'm wondering why you might think twice about going to your reunion alone...
Just got a call from my attorney saying my W had called her. Basically asking about how much it will cost and started asking about division of property. My attorney cut her off and said she couldn't answer any of her questions. She did tell W that if she agreed to what my att. filed and didn't contest anything that it would be cheaper but she would still be representing me and that my W should get her own atty. to read over things and advise her.
I still had some hope, but realize it is over.
Nothing to hold on to now.
Why would she call my attorney?
Why would she call my attorney?
Because she is worried about the cost. There is always hope if you want there to be. I personally work with a guy who got divorced and his W came back 6 months later.
You never know. Sometimes it takes that kind of separation to turn things around.
Hang in there IDU. You will be fine either way. You may WANT her, but you don't NEED her anymore. I am at the point where I am not even sure that I WANT her anymore.
Good luck!!
IDU,
I feel for you. You still have hope, and that is something you can still hold on to.
Your W is trying to protect herself by contacting your attorney. She wants to know what you are up to.
Keep quiet about things, and see how she responds to what she is finding out. She is on a fact finding mission right now to see how it will go for her if you both D.
Don't give up yet. Just keep DBing, and remember what you have learned so far.
I am rooting for you.
I still had some hope, but realize it is over.
Oh geez. Stop being so dramatic. I know it's not easy getting to where you need to be in this whole process, but I can tell you this isn't it. It's pure eeyore
You're right, Dan, I don't need her anymore.
The cost of doing this is not only hitting her, it is hitting me, too. How am I supposed to take care of four kids and housing and clothes and school and daycare and.........?
Crap, I know I need to follow through and I know it's the right thing to do and I will find a way.
Thanks
Hey IDU, checking in. She probably called to see what's in store for her. Let your attorney take care of that side of things. Do what's best for you.
I'm going through all kinds of new stuff today with my sitch. If you're bored come by for a visit at my thread in the infidelity section. It's an interesting read.
I'm probably the last person to give advice right now but I just wanted to continue to give you my support.
I still had some hope, but realize it is over.
Oh geez. Stop being so dramatic. I know it's not easy getting to where you need to be in this whole process, but I can tell you this isn't it. It's pure eeyore
Thanks, TH.
I'm letting my feelings get in the way.
(see previous post
)
Thanks, as always, LSG.
I am a little ashamed of myself. As much as I've learned, this still takes me by surprise and I know it shouldn't.
How's the job hunt going? You are going to get a well deserved break soon. You are starting to make your own good luck, do you see that?
Yeah, the costs are killing me too. I am on craigslist looking for good deals on anything and everything.
Because I got the truck, she got most of the furniture in the house, including the kids bedroom sets. I got some beds, dressers and mattresses, but I could use a couple of nightstands and small lamps. Maybe I will hit some garage sales this weekend too.
It is a nightmare! She has everything she needs to live and continues to b!tch. I have a truck, tools and sporting equipment. Unfortunately, the kids can't sleep on screwdrivers.
Hang tough IDU. We'll get through this.
IDU,
Don't be ashamed of how you feel. It is hard to separate what you have learned and what you feel. This is why you are surprised. You are allowing your emotions to control you, not what you have learned. I do it all the time. It is taking control of them and doing what you know you have to at this point.
I have not heard back from the company I cantacted yesterday. I will tell you about it in my thread.
You are making your own luck too. Do continue to do this, and it will help you alot in your sitch.
Let your thoughts out here as much as you need to. It will keep you thinking and not reacting. Take the lead in your life and do what you want to do.
We are here to help you!
Hey IDU, checking in. She probably called to see what's in store for her. Let your attorney take care of that side of things. Do what's best for you.
I'm going through all kinds of new stuff today with my sitch. If you're bored come by for a visit at my thread in the infidelity section. It's an interesting read.
I'm probably the last person to give advice right now but I just wanted to continue to give you my support.
You are having a bad time of it right now. I have been following along. Hang in there and think through what you should do. I think we all have the answers we are seeking. It's finding the courage to accept the answers and follow through.
You're support is appreciated and always welcome.
think through what you should do. I think we all have the answers we are seeking. It's finding the courage to accept the answers and follow through.
Thank you IDU and very well said.
Took the day off work tomorrow.
Things to do:
Go to bank and divide money, close out joint accounts.
(should have done that a long time ago)
Appt. with L about the paperwork and some questions she has.
Tell the kids what is going on. My W would always back down when I said that we needed to do this. No more putting it off. I am terrified of what it will do to them. Not my decision.
Work out a co-parenting plan to go along with what I am asking for in my petition. I will not be her baby sitter. She acts as though it's my duty and has guilted me into it and I let her. Manly and attractive, eh?
I got the ball rolling, time to expedite things if possible. I am not acting out of shock or surprise, just got hit with a 2x4 from her.
Also heard back from the school board pres. W is in for an interesting meeting in a couple of weeks. She will blame it all on me and that's okay. EVERYONE now knows who has been lying and what's going on. And they are not happy.
God, what a day. Phone calls from my L and from school board.
Someone is trying to tell me something. My indecision has been my worst enemy. Time to press on.
Is it normal to feel so stupid in this process? I had many aha! moments today.
I will really try not to come back here in a couple of days all weak and scared, I promise. You have all told me this is what I should have done long ago and maybe my chances would have been better. I have to stop half a$$ doing things hoping she will wake up.
Finally, full speed ahead.
Oh, prayers are still welcome.
You've got mine IDU.
Stay strong.
You've got mine IDU.
Stay strong.
Thanks, Goodman.
I need every single one.
Just a note-
I put a bid in on a house across the road from my parents. It has plenty of room and is very much in my price range. It does have a contract on it, but the realty co. has not heard from that party in several months and thinks the financing may have fallen through. It would be the perfect set up to get me and the kids on our feet. I am going to look at it tomorrow with the agent.
Again, wish me luck.
Thanks!
IDU, sending prayers your way my friend.
About the "aha moment". I think we all get there some day. Maybe not as quickly as we should but we eventually get there on our own timeline. I think I might have had mine last night.
You're doing a great job dealing with things.
Good luck with the house. Hope it works out for you.
I know the feeling well, IDU. Despite how crappy the situation seems, you get some small nugget of sunshine that makes you believe that maybe, just maybe, they are coming around.
Then they go do what your wife did. It doesn't mean there is no hope - it just means somehow you allowed yourself to FEEL hopeful based on whatever. Which is why you took it hard. Don't worry - it took me about a dozen iterations before I developed an ice cold view of everything my W does, good and bad from a relationship standpoint.
In reality, her calling your lawyer should have zero impact on your action plan. It's irrelevant. The emotional impact just shows you have some work to do. No big deal - you've handled worse things.
Accept that you are divorced and act accordingly - but that doesn't mean you can't have hope that somehow a miracle will occur. Just take the view that it is POSSIBLE, not necessarily LIKELY. Nothing wrong with that, anything is possible with God and you have to believe He's at work. But your W may choose to reject that, and that's her problem.
Don't have much time so I'll have to make this short.
Talked to my L on Wed. To expedite things, she said she wanted to file a motion of temporary custody to get W out of the house and kids placed with me. She had another appt. and told me to call her when I got home and give her some info that she needed and I would have to come in at 6:30 a.m. the next day to sign it so she could file it. By the time I got home, I talked myself out of it. She called me back to tell me to reconsider and said my W's L would tell her to do the same thing. Still I said no.
I guess I just don't have it in me.
W had her appt. yesterday. After the kids were in bed last night, she asked me to come outside with her. She said she did not hire her L, just had the free consultation. She did not counter file, said she wanted to use the same L and work it out on our own. I said that was fine with me. She also said some things about the 40% child support that she is entitled to. My L also said that. She said she doesn't want that much. It wouldn't leave me with enough. We could sit down and work that out, too. She went on about school and sports, how we needed each other to get the kids there. If she could continue to live here and get out of debt as much as possible, etc.
I did the best I could. I agreed that we need to get divorced. The other questions she had, I said I would have to think about and we would discuss them later. She said it was fine, she didn't expect anything to be worked out in a matter of days. I didn't try to change her mind, the only thing I said in that respect was when she said she told her L that, "...we just grew apart, there were no affairs, no abuse, he's a great dad...." I told her to please stop, I didn't want or need to hear what she told her L. In the end, this is your choice, not mine or not ours.
I'm sure I should have been more aggressive and pushed her more. I agreed with everything.
I accepted the sitch. I will not try talking her out.
I'm at the point I should have been a long time ago. I thought I was there a few weeks ago.
Is the only thing left to do is be happy around her with all of this and keep the ball rolling? Slow down and let it sink in? Is this a turning point?
I know I still have hope. I think I have tempered it with reality.
Thanks for following along.
Not sure what to tell you IDU.
You need to decide what it is that YOU want in terms of child placement and what you are willing to pay in support. What is fair for each of you to be able to live and properly care for your kids. If she stays in the house, where will you go? Will she be able to afford it? I am seeing my appraiser tomorrow to figure out what we are going to do. Probably sell it. I don't think I want to spend that much on a house payment by myself and W won't be able to afford to live there.
It will be best if you can work it all out together without fighting, just be sure about what you want and stick to your position. I am trying to do the same.
It will be easier for you to be happy once you are separated and don't have to see her every day. I don't even think about W that much anymore, although I do have some questions as to how to handle her that I will post on my thread later.
Be happy! Find a good place to live and have fun with your kids. W is all worried that my kids aren't ok when they are with me, but they are just fine. I'm still pulling all my sh!t together at the new house, so it took some time away from them, but they need to meet the neighborhood kids anyway. They had fun at my place.
I think you need to keep the ball rolling. Keep on keepin' on buddy. You will be fine before you know it.
Hang in there and keep coming back here for support when you need it.
Thanks, Dan.
She said I could keep the house and didn't have to buy her out of it. I would like to and probably could if I refi'd. IDK. A lot of things to figure out and the more she talks, the more I know she hasn't even thought about. She just wants out. I have finally given her that.
She even talked about staying here after the D. I wanted to say - are you f*****g kidding me? But I said that is something I would have to think about.
I know she still wants the convienence of being M without the hassles of getting a D. I have to let her face those and not rescue her. Trying to do it without being an s$$. If I would have answered her last night, that's exactly what I would have been.
Glad you could control yourself. Lots of times I can't. Like when she was leaving when I was moving out and I told her to "Have a happy life!"
On the refi, my mortgage broker told me that there is a government program where you can refi your current loan amount without having to get an appraisal done. I may be looking further into that myself in the near future. The problem without that kind of a program is many houses aren't appraising high enough to even refinance anymore. It's just disgusting. Really bad timing.
My W doesn't have a plan or clue either. She has no idea what I will have to pay her, no idea about how/where she is going to live. When I told her that I was just worried about us not getting into a desperate financial situation she just said she isn't as worried about it as me. She watched her mom go through lots of hardship over the last 24 years without her father and just assumes it will all work out somehow and she will survive. How naieve is that?
When my W said she wanted to stay together until the D was final because we couldn't afford to live separately, I suggested maybe we live together until the hose sold, even if that was after the D was final. She said there was no way she was doing that. Additionally, I told her that if she didn't want to work on the R, I didn't want to waste any more time living with her.
In fact, she stressed herself out so bad that she couldn't even live with her first suggestion, so we are now living separately, even though we can't afford it.
No rescuing. Keep moving forward to get this resolved. When she sees the reality, it may shock some sense into her.
IKD IDU. Hang in there.
No rescuing. Keep moving forward to get this resolved. When she sees the reality, it may shock some sense into her.
It is past time for her to face reality. If it makes her see what she is doing, great. If not, it's still her decision.
BTW, I have rec'd several txt from her today. She has never used the cute little txt shorthand with me. You know, lol, ttyl, lmao, etc. She has today for the first time.
I think I would be alright with the refi. We got our home and land pretty cheap. I just don't know if it's what I really want. We'll see.
My W's family is pretty close knit. Her brother got a D but that's really the only one. He has tried talking to her, but she avoids him, she doesn't want to hear it. And they are all pretty solid Catholics as my W once was. What happened to her faith? I know, the addiction.
I am really trying to put it in God's hands. It's up to him now. I can't do it. I know that. I have known that. Just didn't want to admit it. Look how much time I have wasted and how much it has affected me.
I know my W is stressed, too, Dan. Maybe now that it's all out in the open and agreed upon, she is more relaxed.
Not getting my hopes up at all, but it is funny how everyone was right; give them what they want, agree with them and it takes most of the pressure off.
Who would have thunk it?
Some interesting day to come, I'm sure.
She even talked about staying here after the D. I wanted to say - are you f*****g kidding me? But I said that is something I would have to think about.
I know she still wants the convienence of being M without the hassles of getting a D. I have to let her face those and not rescue her. Trying to do it without being an s$$. If I would have answered her last night, that's exactly what I would have been.
"You wouldn't mind then if I started dating before the divorce is final then."
a dilemma your wife has not been faced with yet.
"You wouldn't mind then if I started dating before the divorce is final then."
a dilemma your wife has not been faced with yet.
You're right, Steve. I don't think I will be the nice guy any more and let her stay any longer that necessary.
Had a good time at the reunion. Went for breakfast with several people. Was invited to go on a wine tasting tour with some couples and some single girls I went to school with. I told them to count me in.
A lot of people asked where my W was. I didn't go into much detail with anyone. The people I stay in touch with and are close too already know. All in all it was a good time.
Nothing else has changed. W will be in a good mood for a day or a few hours at a time and then turn back into the crab I have gotten used to. I am getting much better at just letting her be. I almost don't have to think about it anymore. If she bitches about the wash or dishes or whatever, I just smile and go do something else. I don't stop doing the wash or anything, it's part of my responsibilities, too. I just do it my way and if she doesn't like it, she can re-do it, or learn to live with my way of doing things in my house. It will only be for a while longer, then she can do things her way when she's on her own.
Hope everyone has a great Labor Day!
Journaling:
The kids and I went to my sister's house yesterday for a bbq. I have several nieces and nephews that are around the same age so the kids always have a great time. We ate, played horseshoes, washers, rode 4-wheelers and had a great time. In the past, I have always told my W that she was welcome to come. This time I did not. I told her where we were going and if she had plans, she could come and pick the kids up at 3:00 and have her time with them. She said she didn't.
When we got home, I got everyone in the shower and got them ready for bed. I didn't ask her for help. I told the kids to go tell mom hi and get ready for bed. One of the twins got into some poison ivy on Sat. and was up a lot on Sat. night itching and just uncomfortable. We lathered him up with calamine lotion and gave him some benadryl. I did the same on Mon. before we left. I told him to wear a long sleeve t-shirt so he wouldn't spread it to anyone else. During the day, I kept putting calamine lotion on him but didn't bring the benadryl. It didn't really bother him all day.
About a half an hour before we left to go home, he started complaining about his eyes itching. It had spread to his face and up his chest and other places. When we got home, I immediately gave him more benadryl and got him in the shower. When he got out, W started in on me: Why did you let him play outside, why did he wear a long sleeve shirt-that only keeps it moist and doesn't let it dry out, why didn't I do this and why didn't I do that?
I let her go on for a while and then just said, "W, you weren't there. I made sure he was taken care of. I didn't give him benadryl, I forgot it at home. He was fine all day long. He needs to go to the Dr. It is spreading and benadryl and calamine lotion is not going to stop it very quickly. I will take time off of work, call the Dr. tomorrow morning and take him in." She said she would do it, but agreed he needed to go to the Dr.
After their showers, they all wanted a snack. That started her off on another tangent. Why didn't I feed them? Why didn't I make them eat? I didn't get defensive and told her that they did eat. They wanted to play. They ran around like crazy all day long and ate and snacked all day long. They were just hungry. We got them a snack and put them in bed and I went to bed.
End of an otherwise great day.
IDU,
It is so great that you are spending quality time with your kids. You are enjoying them, and I am sure they are having fun with you too.
That is too bad that the kids got into some posion Ivy, but it does happen. Kids will be kids. Don't worry about what your W says. I went thourgh the constant attitudes, and the W going off on tangents. Just keep focused on you and the kids, and you will be alright.
Definitely do not get defensive. You are approaching your sitch the right way. It is not easy for you I am sure. I know how it felt.
It is so peaceful for me with her gone. Work keeps me busy at least for today.
Do not react to her. Just do what you feel is right.
I had been wondering how things are with you. I am glad you are doing okay.
Take care of yourself!!!
Yikes. I'm guessing all her browbeating helps with your detachment.
She sounds like she is just miserable.
Yikes. I'm guessing all her browbeating helps with your detachment.
She sounds like she is just miserable.
She is miserable.
I have left her completely alone. No talks, I am happy with the kids and have agreed that we need to divorce. It is her decision. The lies keep catching up with her. That may be part of it or it may not. Not my problem any longer.
Like I said before, for a few days after she went to her L, things were relaxed and friendly. I did not persue at all, I agreed that we would not be able to move past this. She was texting and laughing and making jokes, etc. Then it all came to a screeching halt as it always does.
I am not moving as fast as I should be as far as the D papers, I know. Last night, she made supper and had a meeting at school that she "forgot" to tell me about. She filled me in on our son's medicine for his poison ivy, when to give it to him and how much, I told her thanks for supper and she left. She was home by 9:00, which is early for her. Not reading anything into that since I let it slip a while back that I was making notes about how late she stayed out. Can't take that back.
I have to face the music and so does she. I don't let her lie to me anymore. I don't immediately answer her texts and that really pisses her off. I don't want to push things but I know that is what needs to happen. That's why I basically journal here now: I have my answers. No one can make me or talk me into doing what I know I should do.
Thanks for checking in
Journaling:
The house across from my parents fell through. Oh, well, that would have made things too simple. I do have a couple of other leads that should be affordable. That is, if we can sell our house.
W told me last week that she didn't want the house and that I could have it and not have to buy her out. With what she is entitled to for CS and so forth, it would be really tough to swing it. I told her last night that I didn't want the house and that I will contact some real estate agents and get it listed asap. She said nothing in return, which is the norm, again. NBD.
Boys basketball starts this week. They are so excited. Our little towns homecoming is this weekend and D6 is one of the princess contestants. She can't wait to ride on the float in her new, pretty dress. She doesn't care at all if she wins. She just loves getting dressed up. She will have a great time.
Still scared. Still moving forward, but probably not fast enough.
Sorry to hear about the house IDU. I'm in the middle of trying to decide if I should keep our house and be house poor or try to start over again too. There isn't enough equity to have a decent down payment for a new place.
Glad to her your kids are excited about their events. That is good for them and you too. Be excited with them.
Keep moving forward at your own pace. Be strong.
It's great to be going through this at this particular time in history, isn't it? It's pretty easy to find a house that I can afford, but selling ours is far from a sure thing. I hate to give up 7 acres of land and all the fun that comes along with all of that room; 4-wheelers, big garden, 5 acres of woods with paths cut through out, tree houses, etc. I hate to give up my M, too.
We're not just letting go of the M, we're letting go of our way of life. She will have to get used to it too, I know.
I think in the beginning, the kids will think it's fun to go from house to house. It's new and exciting. Have to make it as smooth as possible.
I am very excited about the kids' events. I love them and love being around them, that will NEVER change. You wouldn't believe how excited my daughter is! With having 3 brothers, you would think she would be a tom boy. Not at all. She is 100% sweet, tender little girl.
I am moving forward. I can still feel the fear inside like dull pressure that occasionally sets off the pressure relief valve. I never do it in front of her.
Like we hear all the time; it will be a different life. Better in some ways. It just takes time to absorb it all.
"Get busy living, or get busy dying."
IDU,
I feel for you so much. It would be difficult to give up such a nice property that you and the kids enjoy so much. You are right that your W will have to make some big changes too. Maybe she will see that before it is too late.
You are right that you have to what is best for the kids, and I know you will. It will be difficult on them. I know that my kids are going to experience this more as time goes on.
I know you have fear, but fear can be replaced with other emotions such as peace or relief.
I have some of those, but I still miss the little ones and even her from time to time. I wish I did not, but I cannot shut out my feelings. Time will help me to do that I believe. It will help you too.
It will be better in someways, and it will take time to see that.
You will be okay no matter what.
You are doing great, and I hope nothing but happiness for you.
All those feelings are natural. Kind of like starting a new job - you know you can do it, but you don't know what it will be like, or if you will be as comfortable as you were in your last job.
Then after 2 weeks you are settled in, making new contacts, getting things done, and you realize you can be a star at your new job too. Then you wonder why you were so worried and lacking confidence.
My biggest problem is that you can't make a clean break when kids are involved. You will have to deal with your ex as much as you do now, just from a separate household. It will always be an annoying interference with any new relationship you enter in to. But that's just reality and nothing can be done about it, so you just have to do the best you can. Accept the burden and leave the rest to God.
Agree with everything 100%, Pigskin. Thanks.
Found out last night that W has enrolled S4 in pre-school. We had talked about doing it but the school that our D went to discontinued their pre-K program because of the state budget mess. They got some funding and are starting it up next week. She took him to orientation last night. After I finished homework, supper and showers, I played with the other three kids for a while. She got home right at bedtime. I asked her what was going on with the pre-K thing and she said he was going starting next week, tues. thru fri. I simply said, okay.
I also found some prices on houses on the note pad by the phone. It really bothered me for about 5 min. I have been looking myself. I want her out. What's the big deal? I do know from the prices she had wrote down that there is no way on earth she will be able to afford any of them. More fantasy? IDK. They are all more than what we gave for our house and land years ago. Maybe her mom and dad will buy her a house. Good for them. It's out of my control.
I haven't asked if she got a new job since our talk on Thurs. She had a chance to get her old job back at the Dr. office she used to work at. She was really going back and forth about it for a while. Who would get the kids off the bus? Who would get them on the bus? On and on. If she moves close enough to her parents, I guess they would do it all. They would basically be raising our kids. Again, it's out of my control. If that's what she wants, that's how it will be on the days that she has them. On my days, I can get them on the bus and off to school but have to rely on someone else to get them off.
I realize this is all her choice. Even with 50-50 custody, things will be difficult at best. I have to make the best of it for the kids and for me.
BTW, I think I am leaning toward trying to sell the house. It will be difficult to sell. Why should I take all of the financial hit if she signs it over to me and I can't make the payments or pay the taxes? Not really sure what to do. So many things to figure out and she seems to think it will be so easy.
They really are way ahead on the detachment curve, aren't they? I have to let her face the consequences and not rescue her. This won't be easy even if we both agree on everything. Not easy at all.
They really are way ahead on the detachment curve, aren't they? I have to let her face the consequences and not rescue her. This won't be easy even if we both agree on everything. Not easy at all.
I see this all the time, and I'm calling B.S.
Detachment is a healthy thing. It's regaining control over your life, etc. What we see the WAS do is more like
disengaging. Otherwise they wouldn't respond so dramatically to losing control over their spouses.
Thanks, Pinhead.
I still don't have the detachment thing down completely. She knows what buttons to push and she keeps pushing until she gets a response from me. I don't do it nearly as often and when it does happen, I apologize for speaking to her that way or whatever the occasion calls for.
Last week, after one of our talks, we were both in the bed room and she was walking out to go sleep on the couch. I called her back in to say something. She didn't like what I was saying and said that she was just telling her friend the other day that I was the only person in the world who could make her feel about 1 cenemeter tall. She had a smirk on her face and it just really put me over the edge. It took all the control I had just to keep my voice down. The kids were sleeping and I said, pretty calmly, " Okay, I don't know why I am still talking to you. Get the hell out of my room and go sleep on the couch where you belong."
Anyway, she brought it up after she went to talk to her L. She said she didn't mind fighting and arguing up until I yelled at her. I said, "I didn't yell. I may have raised my voice, but you are right, that was no way to talk to you no matter how mad I was and it won't happen again. I apologize for taling to you that way, but not for what I said."
That was followed by a couple of days that were almost normal. Now it's back to crap again.
I know...........................
Journaling-
Had another good weekend with the kids. They had a blast at the homecoming. The twins marched in the parade while playing their instruments for the first time. They were so proud of themselves. D6 looked and acted like a real princess for the Little Miss Hometown contest. She sat on the float and waved and answered her questions like a pro. She didn't win but she didn't care. I told her later that night that I was more proud of her because she didn't win. She didn't get sad and told the little girl who did win that she wanted to have her picture taken together. She is a sweetheart!
W and I didn't ride together to the parade. She asked but S4 was sleeping and I said I would wake him up and we would come up later. Why put myself through the tension?
W called yesterday from work and said she had a chunk missing out of her tire and a big bubble on another one. We had talked about getting tires but put it off. She asked me what to do; Just replace the bad ones or get all four? I told her to go ahead and get all four, she and the kids needed to be safe. She agreed and got them put on. When she got home from work @noon, she ate and I laid down. I had a screaming headache. She came in and said her sister called and wanted to go with her and her kids to something, did I mind if her and our kids went. I said go ahead, no problem. They were gone for a couple of hours and I was making supper when they got home. We ate and watched some football.
I noticed that she took my truck and asked her why. She said the van wouldn't start, what else could go wrong. I went out and cleaned the battery posts and put it on the charger. She leaves for work at 3:30 and I told her if it wouldn't start to wake me up and I would jump it for her and she could get a battery while she was at work. She didn't wake me so I called a little while ago to see if she had got it fixed. She said that she did. I said good and told her 'bye. No small talk.
Anyway, as I was coming in the house last night, she was sitting on the front porch. I asked her if she had found anyplace to live yet. She said no, why? I told her I noticed her note pad with houses on it. She said she couldn't afford any of them. I told her she could stay until after D6's b'day which is the end of this month and that I would like her to be out by then. I walked in the house and played with the kids, got them showered and in bed and went to my room.
Still having trouble accepting the situation but am trying to get her to take some action herself. Maybe I should have went ahead and filed. IDK. The kids notice things. One of their cousins asked, on Labor Day, where their Mom was. One of the twins said she was at work. Would she be there later? Probably not, he said. Mom doesn't sleep with Dad anymore and doesn't come to things with us. It was Mom doesn't sleep with Dad, not the other way around. I guess I want them to say, Mom left Dad and not the other way around.
Maybe "striking first" would gain me some advantage. I want my kids to know that I tried and that I did not leave them.
Thanks for the update IDU. You are doing well.
I have similar issues with auto repairs. Always at the worst time. Buying beds and dressers for the kids, a used grill, cleaning supplies. It all adds up quick. Then, I had to come-up with 2 months rent last weekend, which is about 88% of the net that I get each month. Luckily I had set some $ aside to get me through.
I think you need to continue to maintain the minimal contact thing. I hardly talk to W at all since I am out of the house. I think it has made things a little easier, but there are still plenty of difficult times. Maybe time to start dating again.
Hang tough man.
there are still plenty of difficult times. Maybe time to start dating again.
Because that was always what I found attractive and fun back when I was dating: women going through divorce that were needy and still carrying a lot of emotional baggage
What is the secret to letting go? Appreciating your own life? Being grateful for all the good in your life? Appreciating how even the bad things that have happened have made you wiser and stronger in some ways?
Taking time to notice the beauty in life? Making strides toward a better tomorrow?
Just a lot of questions to think about
When your XW can call you an idiot, and you feel so confident that you wink and say "You know, you're kind of sexy when you're angry" you will have found the way--DB Koan.
there are still plenty of difficult times. Maybe time to start dating again.
Because that was always what I found attractive and fun back when I was dating: women going through divorce that were needy and still carrying a lot of emotional baggage
Because dating may make me FEEL attractive again and realize that this D isn't the end of the world.
there are still plenty of difficult times. Maybe time to start dating again.
Because that was always what I found attractive and fun back when I was dating: women going through divorce that were needy and still carrying a lot of emotional baggage
What is the secret to letting go? Appreciating your own life? Being grateful for all the good in your life? Appreciating how even the bad things that have happened have made you wiser and stronger in some ways?
Taking time to notice the beauty in life? Making strides toward a better tomorrow?
Just a lot of questions to think about
When your XW can call you an idiot, and you feel so confident that you wink and say "You know, you're kind of sexy when you're angry" you will have found the way--DB Koan.
And good questions they are, TH!
Thanks!
Because dating may make me FEEL attractive again and realize that this D isn't the end of the world.
Right on, Dan!
I'm not ready for the dating thing yet, not even close, but I understand where you're coming from.
In a way, I also understand where my W is coming from. I should have told her more how pretty she was and how happy I was to have her with me. She always told me but I didn't tell her nearly often enough. It's not an excuse for what happened, but I see how it would hurt her. I have been complemented a lot lately from the opposite sex and it does feel good. My self image has always been lacking and that was one of the things I needed to work on. It's really not a problem anymore. I am more confident in everything that I do.
This isn't the end of the world.
Close, but not quite.
Journaling:
W told me last night that she got her old job back and the Dr. office where she used to work. She will work 4 days a week and every other Sat. I told her congratulations, that it is good news. She hasn't figured out who will get the kids off the bus in the afternoon but said she would work it out.
It makes my custody plan look pretty good. She will be off every Wed. I would have the kids Mon. and Tues., she would have Wed. and Thurs., then we alternate Fri., Sat. and Sun. She didn't want to discuss any of that last night so I let it drop.
This would be great if we were still "us". She won't have to work every weekend, won't have to get up at 3:00 in the morning, she'll have a set schedule and things would be "normal". Now, not sure how much it will change for her if any at all. And I'm okay with that. I can see in my mind how shared custody would work and I just have to make it work. Other than how it will affect the kids, the rest of the mess doesn't seem as scary.
BTW, S4 had his first day of pre-school yesterday. I drove him to school, had him show me where his classroom was, where he was supposed to put his backpack and he told me what his teacher's name was. He knew everything! When I left, he gave me a few extra kisses and a little longer hug, and then off he went. I can't believe how big he is getting. Even after being through this with three other kids, time still has a way of sneaking past me. He's a bright kid and had a great day and was ready again this morning.
Have I mentioned lately how much I love my kids?
Nice job IDU. Sounds like you are doing well.
Thanks for keeping us updated.
Nothing new.
Still letting her be crabby and not asking or trying to fix anything. I listen when she does talk, but she hasn't initiated anything since our D talk a week ago. The kids are having trouble at school and it's really got under her skin. When I get home from work, she is already a mess. I help with homework and try to calm things down. I get the kids showered and in bed most nights and I go to bed myself. I don't stay up and watch TV with her or try to make small talk.
I have asked her several times this week if she has found anywhere to stay. She says she can't find anything she can afford. No kidding.
She still hasn't taken any responsibility for anything and maybe she never will. Not my problem. I am trying to take care of the kids and myself.
Have a good weekend, everyone.
Maybe you should try something different.
Detaching does not mean to leave her crabby in front of the TV and going to bed.
Change the dynamic. The current one does not work, does it?
Maybe you should try something different.
Detaching does not mean to leave her crabby in front of the TV and going to bed.
Change the dynamic. The current one does not work, does it?
You are 100% correct; it does not work. I have tried being playful and joking, so forth. I guess I am out of ideas. I don't know what to do to change the dynamic. I have proven over and over that I'm not very good at this. I am detaching and finding myself not caring so much anymore. I know the idea is to be lovingly distant and I'm doing my best. I had to find out about her new job from my 10y.o. son. When she finally told me all about it later the same night, I told her congratulations, I know it means a lot to you, it will be good for you to get back to work in your field, etc.
She is miserable. I am not. Not anymore. I do still want a new and improved M. I can't drag her kicking and screaming. She has said over and over that she was done. So be it.
Am I missing something?
It's a bit of a self fulfilling prophecy when you proclaim "I'm not good at this", no?
You are good, you will get better.
It's time for her to move out and her inability to afford a place is not your problem. Give her xx amount of days and stick to it. If she would like to stay then she will need to change her attitude. She can be happy in your house or be crabby in her own apartment (that she pays for). Let her decide!
If she's done no amount of financial turmoil will stop her from getting out. So it's time for her to to just that. WAS seem to love making all kinds of life altering declarations for multiple people (their spouses and children) - hold her feet to the fire and have her follow through.
She is miserable. You are not.
That's a lot better than WAS having fun while you were miserable at home wondering.
Turn it around. Be interesting, mysterious, happy and excited.
Make her wonder how could that be.
Be funny, flirt with her out of your normal character. Be witty, turn around and walk away. Be a magnet or what Coach likes to say - be a catnip.
Cat that sleeps on her job needs to be awaken.
Disturb the pattern.
Be funny, flirt with her out of your normal character. Be witty, turn around and walk away
Watch old Cary Grant comedies. LOL. How about "Philadelpia Story"?
Cary Grant - Philadelphia Story-- Giving Tracy the Business
Thanks CG and Pookie.
I have worked so hard to get in this frame of mind. I was a mess for a long time and still feel, sometimes, like I am holding it all together by a thread. It's not my problem that she is miserable. I'm sure the financial turmoil is hitting closer to home for her since we both talked to lawyers. I told her that I am willing to work with her on everything but would not budge from 50-50 shared custody. I would fight her to the end on that. She says we don't have the money for a long drawn out court fight and I simply told her that I would find a way. Period.
In the meantime, she has made no move to file herself. She called a couple of places and got some prices on houses and apartments but they are more expensive that our home and 7 acres that we have right now. I'm sure she thought she could go rent something for a couple hundred bucks and rely on child support for the rest.
I do go out some but am not as mysterious as I should be, I'm sure. I love the catnip term and thinking. I just can't quite put it all together, you know? I have four kids that count on me for a lot of things. I don't want to completely turn into her by going out and leaving the kids. I don't want to give her any ammunition to use against me. I know I may be being paranoid but my kids are my #1 priority. I'm sure she uses that against me.
CG, thanks for the vote of confidence. I wish I would get better at this a whole lot faster!!!
Thanks CG and Pookie.
I have worked so hard to get in this frame of mind. I was a mess for a long time and still feel, sometimes, like I am holding it all together by a thread. It's not my problem that she is miserable. I'm sure the financial turmoil is hitting closer to home for her since we both talked to lawyers. I told her that I am willing to work with her on everything but would not budge from 50-50 shared custody. I would fight her to the end on that. She says we don't have the money for a long drawn out court fight and I simply told her that I would find a way. Period.
In the meantime, she has made no move to file herself. She called a couple of places and got some prices on houses and apartments but they are more expensive that our home and 7 acres that we have right now. I'm sure she thought she could go rent something for a couple hundred bucks and rely on child support for the rest.
I do go out some but am not as mysterious as I should be, I'm sure. I love the catnip term and thinking. I just can't quite put it all together, you know? I have four kids that count on me for a lot of things. I don't want to completely turn into her by going out and leaving the kids. I don't want to give her any ammunition to use against me. I know I may be being paranoid but my kids are my #1 priority. I'm sure she uses that against me.
CG, thanks for the vote of confidence. I wish I would get better at this a whole lot faster!!!
Thanks CG and Pookie.
I have worked so hard to get in this frame of mind. I was a mess for a long time and still feel, sometimes, like I am holding it all together by a thread. It's not my problem that she is miserable. I'm sure the financial turmoil is hitting closer to home for her since we both talked to lawyers. I told her that I am willing to work with her on everything but would not budge from 50-50 shared custody. I would fight her to the end on that. She says we don't have the money for a long drawn out court fight and I simply told her that I would find a way. Period.
In the meantime, she has made no move to file herself. She called a couple of places and got some prices on houses and apartments but they are more expensive that our home and 7 acres that we have right now. I'm sure she thought she could go rent something for a couple hundred bucks and rely on child support for the rest.
I do go out some but am not as mysterious as I should be, I'm sure. I love the catnip term and thinking. I just can't quite put it all together, you know? I have four kids that count on me for a lot of things. I don't want to completely turn into her by going out and leaving the kids. I don't want to give her any ammunition to use against me. I know I may be being paranoid but my kids are my #1 priority. I'm sure she uses that against me.
CG, thanks for the vote of confidence. I wish I would get better at this a whole lot faster!!!
I heard you loud and clear after the first post.
She is trapped and it's your job to make her feel that she is free to go. Helping her financially does not accomplish that.
Take your time off from her. Be the best dad you can be for your kids. Don't worry about going out for her sake.
Work on a perception. She is watching your every move. She is miserable on the couch but she is watching you.
Work it.
IDU,
You are doing great.
The money issues will be hers. She made these choices for you and kids. You and your kids had no say in the decisions she's made. She will have to live with her decisions and the consequences.
Reality is different than what actually happens. I think at some point the WAS will see this. It may longer for some than others.
I think what you are being told is to go out sometimes even if it is for a short time. You do not have to become her. It is just doing something for yourself. You don't need to tell your W what you are doing. As long as you are doing nothing wrong, she will have no ammunition against you. The court will not look at this as wrong.
I know your kids are your #1 priority because I feel the same way about mine.
Take good care of both you and the kids. You are great father, and you are doing a great job in a very difficult situation.
Never stop fighting for what you want.
Focus on your priorities first always.
Keep going strong!
Thanks Pookie,(don't know why that triple posted) and LSG.
Had a crappy weekend. Started another thread to get advice on weather or not to file first.
Like with many of my other questions, I already know the answer.
God help me. I need it.
Just got off of phone with my L.
I have to go in to her office in the morning to sign the papers and she will immediately take them to the courthouse.
I really don't know how I'm going to make it. Money will be very tight. The kids don't understand.
I don't know how, but that doesn't mean I won't make it. I have to and I will.
Just got off of phone with my L.
I have to go in to her office in the morning to sign the papers and she will immediately take them to the courthouse.
I really don't know how I'm going to make it. Money will be very tight. The kids don't understand.
I don't know how, but that doesn't mean I won't make it. I have to and I will.
May I ask what's the rush for filing?
Sorry to hear you had a bad weekend IDU. Mine was pretty good until Sunday, when I had to see/be with W at the kids soccer games. Broke down thinking about things.
You are doing the right thing with the L. You can't keep living in limbo and enabling her to just keep going on and on with this. Maybe it will shake her up enough, maybe not.
I understand about tight money, but something will pop up just when you need it. I can't believe how lucky I have been. Get feelers out in your network. If you have to rent for a while, do it. That is where I am at the moment.
You are strong IDU. You can and will do this and do it well for your kids. I have every confidence in you.
Hang tough man.
May I ask what's the rush for filing?
Yes, you may.
I got some info today from her family that she was going to file last week but couldn't get in to her L's office. She has Wed. off this week and is planning on going. I realize this is second hand info. It doesn't change what I need to do to protect myself and the kids. I think it would be to my benefit to file first. If, by a miracle from God Himself, she would change her mind, it could be stopped. I don't see it happening.
Also, the fact that she made plans to go to the same event this year that she went with OM to last year shows me that she has no remorse whatsoever. I was simply expected to be her babysitter again. Enough is enough, even for me.
I see.
Just remember - filing does not mean the end.
I'm actually not married but telling my W that I was getting ready to move out caused some sort of a change in her behavior. Still trying to figure it out.
My W filed in early June. We lived together until I started pushing her to resolve our disputes. We separated Aug 28th. I have done my homework regarding Child Support, Alimony, The value of our home, forward looking budgets, etc. I have now decided to sit back and wait to see what she does. I believe that she is just waiting on her L and has no intentions of backing-off. We'll see.
Just as filing isn't the end, oftentimes even the actual D isn't the end. My friends across the street got back together about 8 months after they separated, which was about 2 months after their divorce was final.
Crazy sh!t.
I've heard that 20% of divorced couples get back together and remarry. Crazy stuff...
My birthday.
My friends across the street got back together about 8 months after they separated, which was about 2 months after their divorce was final.
It happens. Sometimes things have to fall apart before they can be put back together correctly.
Dan, Pinhead, TH,
I have read all of the statistics. I know filing doesn't mean it's over. I also know and accept that this could very well be it.
While her parents don't agree with what she is doing, they will help her out. They are enabling her. They think they are helping and I can't really blame them. If she was left to figure all of this out on her own, we would have a better chance. I don't see her having this epiphany all of a sudden and calling off the D.
I have been miserable for an entire year. Even with the changes I have made and understanding my mistakes and trying not to repeat them, there has been no movement toward anything on her part. It's like what recently happened to Serenity; anytime my W act nice or caring or a little like her old self, something bad is on the way.
Sometimes things have to fall apart before they can be put back together correctly.
I agree 100%. I have only recently found the strength to admit this. I hope and pray my W will someday realize the same.
I agree 100%. I have only recently found the strength to admit this. I hope and pray my W will someday realize the same.
I know you can be happy with or without her. There is a compulsive part of our minds that wants to pour over every bad feeling and relive them. Once you stop listening to that part of your mind, things get better.
One thing I did that I found helpful was making a list of 10 things I was grateful for every single day.
Marriage is (sadly) a very disposable entity in our society. While I understand a parent will always support/help their children it's upsetting when they are assisting in the breakup of a marriage.
I recently read an article that said so many LBS say they have unconditional love for their spouses but in reality, they do not. Unconditional love cannot happen with romantic love because no matter how much you give, at some point you do expect *something* in return. It was interesting. I think it might have been on one of the sites Allen posted (infidelity forum).
Your W might very well be moving towards something, it's just not the movement you had hoped. Sometimes people(s) have to hit their bottom before anything more can happen. It's tough though because everybody has a different "bottom".
And maybe things can be put back together in some capacity. It might not be how you had initial hoped but repair on some level is always possible.
Your W might very well be moving towards something, it's just not the movement you had hoped. Sometimes people(s) have to hit their bottom before anything more can happen. It's tough though because everybody has a different "bottom".
And maybe things can be put back together in some capacity. It might not be how you had initial hoped but repair on some level is always possible.
All true, CG.
I guess to get to this place for myself, I've had to put compassion on the back burner for now. I know she is hurting, too, in her own way. I can see myself being cordial for the kids but no other relationship. No friends, or buddies or pals, KWIM?
To me, repair would mean doing the very hard work of actually trying to each face our faults and working together to overcome them. I am there. She is not. Of course, she never had the bomb that I did to shake me up.
I may be missing your point, CG, but I don't see us being anything but co-parents. I know I am still hurting and I can't see the future. There is only one way to repair the M. There are several things I can do for myself. Things I can do to lessen the impact on the kids. I will do my best.
IDU, I was hoping to see that things had turned around in your marriage, but of course I'm not surprised to see that your sitch is moving towards separation/divorce as that is by far the most common scenario here on the board.
You are doing great with your attitude and focus. Keep putting the kids first. It's hard to GAL with four children and the threat of potential custody issues. You're doing your best and that is more than good enough.
Believe it for not I am happy for you. It will be hard to deal with the fallout on your children, but having freedom from living with a negative spouse who has emotionally abandoned you will eventually feel like a huge relief. You'll miss your children when they're with your W, but OTOH, that will give you the time and space to GAL and to focus on yourself, your music, your social life, etc.
I'm not going to sugarcoat how hard this is. But there's light at the end of the tunnel.
Hugs to you. Make this all about your kids and YOU. Do things that make you feel good about yourself whenever possible. Find pleasure, even little moments here and there.
What I meant was sometimes repair doesn't always happen in the form of a marriage being reconciled but some level of repair can be attained.
It might be a long time before that can happen (or maybe never) but I do believe at some point it is a possibility for all of us.
I am unable to define "repair" because I do think it is different for everybody. It begins with personal repair and that is a long road to walk. I know you are walking it right now.
My dad died four years ago (my parents had been divorced 13 years prior to his death). My mom and stepdad were with us (us = my sister and me) every minute of the time we spent with my dad during the last 5 days of his life. Despite the fact my father could hardly speak I did see with my own two eyes some level of repair between my mom and dad. It may have not been the definitive repair we all hope for but *something* did happen in that hospital room that was healing for the both of them. Of course, when one is nearing the end of their life I suppose there is motivation.
It's amazing what we create or what comes along (or maybe good things only come along when we work to create them) when we sort of dedicate our life to feeling repaired. And it's tough, make no mistake about it. When the wounds of a dissolved marriage are present it is very, very raw. Or I should say it's raw for me but maybe you can relate. Wounds open and close from time to time.
I guess what I am saying (in a rather garbled fashion) is as long as you are still living and breathing the opportunity to create something better is available. And once the madness of the legal side of things is settled down maybe that road will be easier to follow.
I recently read an article that said so many LBS say they have unconditional love for their spouses but in reality, they do not. Unconditional love cannot happen with romantic love because no matter how much you give, at some point you do expect *something* in return.
And when that "something" never gets doled out, something inside you whithers. Not sure how long it takes, but I think this is what we were talking about over on my thread before.
Dude, you are pretty hard on yourself. I think you have been kicking A$$ on the db front! We're a lot alike. Dealing with the reality of the situation and doing the right things to survive with the least damage to our lives is the easy part. getting over the betrayal and resolving that the closest person on the planet is the one who hurt you, well, when you figure that part out, please let me know. I promise if I ever find a way to shut that part of it off, I will not pass go, or collect $200. I'll come straight here and start a new post for all to see. Not holding my breath though.
I think only time can ever fix this.
You've still got my prayers buddy.
(((FM)))
Thanks so much for taking time to stop by.
I read the latest news in your thread. You sound like you are doing great! Good for you! Like the others, I would remind you to take it slow. I am sure it feels fantastic to receive the attention. Enjoy it but take it easy. No need to rush things.
Again, thanks for the words of encouragement. I miss your words of wisdom here. I understand why you are not on here much anymore. I am happy for you, too. I hope to be where you are soon. I can see the light at the end of the tunnel, it's just not moving closer yet.
You take care!
I guess what I am saying (in a rather garbled fashion) is as long as you are still living and breathing the opportunity to create something better is available. And once the madness of the legal side of things is settled down maybe that road will be easier to follow.
God has given me many things to be thankful for. Many things that I took for granted before. Each day is a gift, I realize that.
I'm so sorry about your Dad. I lost my Grandma last year. She was 93 and more than ready to go. It's still terrible watching a loved one die over the course of weeks or days. Still, isn't it a shame that the motivation for healing had to come in the moments before death? I'm not explaining myself very well and please don't take it the wrong way. It is just heartbreaking to think that the love two people once had for each other was gone and it takes a reminder of our own mortality to bring just a little bit of it back. Do you know what I'm trying to say?
I have no doubt that I will eventually prosper, both personally and spiritually. At the same time, my W is the mother of our four kids. No one else will ever be their mom. No one else will ever be my first and only W. From here on out, things will never be normal. We will have fallen directly into what society accepts as normal, but everyone really knows better. Running from problems rather than facing them, turning your back on the person we "left our mother and father for" and were supposed to cling to each other. That's not how it is supposed to work.
I often think of Ronald and Nancy Reagan. They had a seemingly story book marriage. I remember a book of his love letters to Nancy was even published. There is no doubt that they loved each other. But if you look at his first W and their children, things were far from perfect. Family problems followed them all of their lives. Things were never "normal" again.
Don't know if that has anything to do with anything. I'm just trying to say that if I ever get married again, it could be to the best woman in the world, my true soul mate. The reality of it is I still have four children that this will affect for the rest of their lives. I will do all that I can to make the transition as painless as possible, but it will not be without consequences. Even thought I don't want the M to break up, she is putting me in the position of having to deal with the fall out of this for the rest of my life. It shouldn't be this easy to end it all.
Wow, just re-read that and didn't realize how whiny it sounds. I will go ahead and leave it, though. It's all true. It isn't right and it isn't fair. We must move on and deal with things. No other choice.
I know what you mean about death (or I should say I think I understand what you are trying to share). My mom and dad had difficult litigation but once their divorce was over it was over. They really had no contact (my sister and I were in our late teens and early 20's at the time). Things really fell apart for my dad due to his drinking. But I guess at the end of the day, no matter what the motivation was, repair is attainable. I guess maybe that is why it's important not to define repair in too stringent a manner.
Everything in life we do has a consequence. And I agree, often times the choices of another person put us in very unfavorable and frightening situations. I can relate to that 110%. It does extract every bit of emotion one is able to feel! I'm not very sure there is one correct answer to all of this "stuff".
I sometimes wonder if things feel so "not right" now so when they are "more right" later we will appreciate them even more. I'll have to get back to you on that one
Thanks for tyring to understand my ramblings.
Everything in life we do has a consequence. And I agree, often times the choices of another person put us in very unfavorable and frightening situations. I can relate to that 110%. It does extract every bit of emotion one is able to feel! I'm not very sure there is one correct answer to all of this "stuff".
There is not one correct answer to all of this stuff. The only correct answer would be for all of us who got married to actually live out our vows. Never gonna happen, I know.
BTW, I have often thought of changing my handle to "Country Boy".
I about as far out in the sticks as you can get. That adds another layer of suck to all of this. Everything is farther away, lawyers, schools, shopping, etc. You have to drive a ways to get anywhere. I wouldn't have it any other way. Of course, that may be out of my control now. Another thing that's out of my hands.
I recently read an article that said so many LBS say they have unconditional love for their spouses but in reality, they do not. Unconditional love cannot happen with romantic love because no matter how much you give, at some point you do expect *something* in return.
And when that "something" never gets doled out, something inside you whithers. Not sure how long it takes, but I think this is what we were talking about over on my thread before.
Dude, you are pretty hard on yourself. I think you have been kicking A$$ on the db front! We're a lot alike. Dealing with the reality of the situation and doing the right things to survive with the least damage to our lives is the easy part. getting over the betrayal and resolving that the closest person on the planet is the one who hurt you, well, when you figure that part out, please let me know. I promise if I ever find a way to shut that part of it off, I will not pass go, or collect $200. I'll come straight here and start a new post for all to see. Not holding my breath though.
I think only time can ever fix this.
You've still got my prayers buddy.
Thanks for the reply, AG.
Time is a funny thing: When things are going good, it seems to fly by, when they're not, it just drags on and on. Needless to say, this last year has felt like 10. It's time to get moving again.
All prayers are welcome and needed. Thanks.
L just called an confirmed she has everything ready for my signature. She still wanted me to have her removed from the house. I don't see how that would foster any future goodwill. It may reaffirm my being a doormat to my W, IDK. I am filing for temporary custody so if she does finally pack up and leave, she won't be able to take the kids. We'll see how it all pans out. As hard as this has all been, I have a feeling it will get harder.
I will also insist on telling the kids tonight. We were going to do it several times but she always backed down and I willingly let it slide. No more. They are having trouble in school and I'm sure this won't help matters. I have to keep telling myself that it's her choice. She could stop it in an instant.
God, this is hard. I knew that all along and just didn't want to face it. Time to do more hard work.
In case I haven't mentioned it lately: I LOVE MY KIDS!!!!!!!!
God, help me to be strong and to do the right thing. Not with spite and anger, but with humility and love.
Amen.
IDU,
I am really sorry you are facing tonight. I know you love those kids. Just remember, they know it too. I don't have any advice for you, but I will keep you and them in my prayers.
Maybe this will shake her out of it. If so, it's small consolation that it had to come to this.
Good luck man
Hi IDU,
Sorry for what you are going through.
Good luck with telling the kids tonight and know all of us on these boards are supporting you.
Take care and many hugs to you~~
IDU,
I am so sorry for what you are going through.
Telling your kids is the right, and you will do what is best for the kids because you do LOVE THEM. I feel the love you have for them. Remember you have choices to make, and you are making them for you and your wonderful kids. Your W has made her choices too.
You will be strong and do the right thing. That is just the type of person you are.
My prayers are with you!!!
Thanks, everyone.
It's been a few days. I needed some time off.
We told the kids. It's the hardest thing I've ever had to do in my life. I will just leave it at that.
As far as me filing, I haven't. The day I was supposed to go to my L, this past Tues., I got a call from work. One of the guys I work with has a 13 yo daughter with kidney failure. She is on dialysis at home and has had her ups and downs. She is adopted but her mom is a high enough % of a match to do a transplant. Anyway, that morning, I was called into work early. My co-worker, "John", wasn't going to be here. The night before, his D blood pressure got very high and she had a mild stroke. She is in the hospital as is the whole family. They were supposed to do the transplant next Fri., so we have some people off on vacation knowing that John would be out for a while.
So, I didn't file. On Wed., W and her dad went to see her L. It seems that she has really convinced her mom and especially her dad to help her out. She didn't file. She went to see what her options are. The same thing I did a couple of times. BTW, I got this info from my BIL who says he has told her and his parents that this is not the way to handle things. Oh, well. She can lie to them as well as she can to me. She has not told me herself that she went. I don't care. I told her months ago that she needed a L of her own. It seems she has one and that her dad is paying for it. Good for her.
I have to find the time to go file myself. I've already procrastinated too long and I'm sure she can see or feel my reluctance. I can't help but wonder why she didn't file. I know it probably doesn't mean anything.
Before we told the kids, I reiterated to her that I agree it's over and we couldn't get past the things that had happened. She tried to say that I was still blaming it all on her and I said that wasn't true, I had admitted to my mistakes and faults and I won't go there anymore. She said, "What, and I haven't? I can't apologize for something I didn't do." I said that was fine, I understand. Let's call the kids in.
She still won't leave. She wants to do this trading nights away from the house so the kids can stay in one place. I told her I didn't think that was a good idea. She said she couldn't afford to go anywhere. I said that wasn't my problem. She said it should be because of the kids. I said the kids have a home, they have their own room, toys, books, etc. So does she but she has made the choice not to stay. That's the last thing I told her.
It feels so close sometimes. Then it slips away.
I still would like to know the pros and cons of being the one to file first. I really don't want to make this easy on her at all. She's the one who wants it, let her do all the heavy lifting. On the other hand, enough is enough. OM is out of the picture as far as I can tell, but her attitude hasn't changed at all.
Fear is still holding me back. I think I'm holding my ground other than not filing.
The decision to file is a very personal one. If you feel you have exhausted all efforts to save M and are beating a dead horse, then by all means...
If you are still iffy, don't.
It's understandably confusing when one person wants out but won't file.
If you are still iffy, don't.
It's painfully obvious that I am still iffy and it really pisses me off. I shouldn't be iffy. If I would have been in the frame of mind a year ago that I am in now, I can see how filing first would have possibly helped my sitch. Now I'm really can't see any advantage other that showing her that I'm "done" for good. And it may very well be the thing to help turn the sitch around. I think I have made it clear to her that I am done being her babysitter, done taking CB from her, done with her lies and deceit.
It shouldn't be, but in my mind, if I file, I am giving up on the kids. Like I said before, even under the best circumstances I will only see them 50% of the time. That is so hard to swallow. I have to accept it, I know.
Keep in mind that filing is not the same as divorcing. At least she will know you are serious and she will have to get off the fence. Once she has to make some hard decisions she may get the 2x4 in the head that she needs.
You know that not filing will just drag out the misery - it sure won't put you on the road to reconciliation. It sounds like I'm advocating divorce, but I sure as hell can't say "just wait a couple of more months, IDU, and see what happens."
It's painfully obvious that I am still iffy and it really pisses me off. I shouldn't be iffy.
You know, as easy as it is to tell someone to move on and how easy the concept is, everyone needs to figure this out in their own time. So you do what you need to do.
Keep in mind that filing is not the same as divorcing. At least she will know you are serious and she will have to get off the fence. Once she has to make some hard decisions she may get the 2x4 in the head that she needs.
You know that not filing will just drag out the misery - it sure won't put you on the road to reconciliation. It sounds like I'm advocating divorce, but I sure as hell can't say "just wait a couple of more months, IDU, and see what happens."
I know, I know, I know.
I don't think you are advocating divorce. We are here to avoid that if at all possible. We are also here to improve ourselves. I have been doing that. I am in a much better place than I was. I am a better person than I was. And I know that being around her hate and vitriol isn't healthy for me or the kids.
I know that I don't have to tell anyone else how hard this is. We all know.
Thanks, as always, Pigskin.
It's painfully obvious that I am still iffy and it really pisses me off. I shouldn't be iffy.
You know, as easy as it is to tell someone to move on and how easy the concept is, everyone needs to figure this out in their own time. So you do what you need to do.
Thanks, Soleil.
I appreciate the support and I need the support.
Problem is, I already know what I need to do.
I just need to quit f'ing around and being Mr. Pansy and do it.
Time to put on the big boy boxers?
Time to put on the big boy boxers?
Well said!
Thanks, Dude!
I know it's something I have to do.
HAVE TO.
Have a great weekend!
Hi from Munich, IDU.
Just checking in on you. Don't have much to offer at the moment, other than telling you to hang in there. You ARE doing great.
If you can be happy for you and your kids in this situation, then wait. Has GAL made you happy? At least somewhat? I think if you can be happy for yourself regardless of what she is doing, then filing doesn't matter either way. Maybe it gives her a push to help wake her up, but maybe not either.
What do you gain from filing? What will change and make you happier as a result? If you are doing OK, maybe continue to just hang out for a while. If pushing forward will change things for the better for you, then file.
I know it is so hard, but I don't see any advantage or disadvantage in you filing first. In my state it doesn't matter, but I don't know about yours. My sister told me to let my W file first so that if the kids ever looked it up later, it would show that she wanted this.
Good luck. Will try to check in again when I get back to the states.
Journaling -
Short story of my weekend: W called on my way home Fri nite and said the sitter had called her and couldn't find one of the twins. He and a neighbor kid had gone into our woods and did not come back home for an hour and would not answer her when she called his name. Other twin told her that he said he was going to run away. Sitter is 14 and was very scared and upset.
I hurried home as fast as I could get there. I work about an hour away so it seemed to take forever. On the way, I called my parents and some friends that live close to ask if they could go help. The neighbor kid's Dad is a volunteer fireman and called the fire dept. to have them help. The sitter's dad also came out. There were probably 25 people searching our property and adjacent fields and woods.
W called several times on the way home and was very upset. She was helping with a sale that the group that she is pres. of puts on every year and was 45 min. from home. She said she was on her way. She was crying and very emotional and saying little things that made me think maybe she was starting to realize some of the mistakes she has been making with the kids in this whole sitch.
I called home and D6 answered. She was crying and said she was in the house all alone while everyone looked for her brother. I calmed her down and talked to her the rest of the way home.
I was about 5 min. from home and she called and said that the sitter's dad had found our S. She was relieved and said she had talked to him and now she felt bad for yelling at him on the phone. He was scared and upset, too. She then said she was going back to her sale and would be home later. So much for learning her lesson. I told her I would take care of things.
S called me a couple of times and was crying and I told him I would be home in a minute, try to relax and it would all be fine.
I got home and gave him a hug and let him cry. I told him we would eat supper and talk about it later. My parents were still there and other people were leaving. I talked to the sitter and asked if she was okay, she said she was. I talked to her dad, thanked him and told him I was sorry to get them involved in this. He was very understanding and said not to worry, he was just glad everything turned out alright.
W called a while later and said she was headed home. I have since learned that her sister told her to get her a$$ home and be with her family. When she got there, we both talked to our S and she asked him if anything was bothering him. He said no and just cried. We both hugged him and each other.
Later that nite, we were outside in the garage talking about the whole evening, what his punishment would and should be, how scared and worried she was, etc. She turned to walk in the house and I gently grabbed her arm and turned her around and held her. She held me back, tight, for several minutes. We didn't speak at all. I tried to let go several times and she held on. When she finally did let go, she held on to my hand for several seconds and squeezed it.
Just a quick aside; when his brother told the sitter he was running away, this was something he said several days ago. I collect knives and have all of the Rambo knives and the twins think they are very cool. S took one of the knives out to the woods and was sawing on trees, shopping branches, etc. He didn't want to get caught with the knife. That's the story he gave us.
The following days have proved to be no less confusing. On Sat., W was still wondering what would cause our S to do something like this and why his grades and behavior at school were so much worse than usual. I looked and her and told her that it was really pretty simple.
W: What do you mean?
M: I won't state the obvious, but let me ask you something. How many times have any of the kids asked you why you sleep on the couch?
W: Never.
M: How many times have they asked why we don't wear our rings anymore?
W: Never.
M: Well, they have asked me, especially S and I'm tired of making excuses. When we told them what was going on, I thought maybe they would feel more comfortable talking to you about all of this.
W: They have never asked me about it. What's your point?
M: My point is, I have told them to ask you because I was tired of lying about it. Saying you were on the couch because your back hurt or you were sick or whatever. None of them will ask you because they told me they don't want to bother you or make you mad.
W: That's BS, they can talk to me about anything and they know it.
I stopped the conversation and said that we both know what would be best for the kids. I went outside and cut grass, and the kids all came out later to ride on the trailer and pick up sticks in the yard.
That night, she slept in our bed for the first time since April.
Sun. her family had booked a ride on a house boat and then were going to cook out. I haven't been to anything on her family's side since Christmas. She went to church with us, got to see the twins serve-they were so proud mom finally got to see them-and went out for donuts as is our usual routine. When we got home, she started getting things ready to go. I was outside doing something and she was loading the van and asked me if I wanted to bring a sweatshirt. I just said yes and went on with what I was doing. Anyway, I went along and had a good time.
She has been back in bed every night since then. Really, no other change on her part. If anything, she's a little more uptight. This morning, she was really wound up. It was so much easier when I had to get the four kids ready myself than with her there helping. I know she is adjusting to her new job and juggling sitters and just stuff. I get it. When she does go off on me about not doing this right or getting out the wrong clothes or whatever, I don't say a word or I just smile and move on to something else. NBD.
Wow, that really was the short version! It's been interesting, to say the least. Not getting my hopes up but am mastering the art of detachment. At least I think I am.
You are doing good. This isn't easy; be proud of what you have done
I was about 5 min. from home and she called and said that the sitter's dad had found our S. She was relieved and said she had talked to him and now she felt bad for yelling at him on the phone. He was scared and upset, too. She then said she was going back to her sale and would be home later
Her priorities are out of line. Glad her sister called her on it, you should too.
I told her I would take care of things.
Great! Be a leader.
The following days have proved to be no less confusing. On Sat., W was still wondering what would cause our S to do something like this and why his grades and behavior at school were so much worse than usual. I looked and her and told her that it was really pretty simple.
W: What do you mean?
M: I won't state the obvious, but let me ask you something. How many times have any of the kids asked you why you sleep on the couch?
W: Never.
M: How many times have they asked why we don't wear our rings anymore?
W: Never.
M: Well, they have asked me, especially S and I'm tired of making excuses. When we told them what was going on, I thought maybe they would feel more comfortable talking to you about all of this.
W: They have never asked me about it. What's your point?
M: My point is, I have told them to ask you because I was tired of lying about it. Saying you were on the couch because your back hurt or you were sick or whatever. None of them will ask you because they told me they don't want to bother you or make you mad.
W: That's BS, they can talk to me about anything and they know it.
I stopped the conversation and said that we both know what would be best for the kids. I went outside and cut grass, and the kids all came out later to ride on the trailer and pick up sticks in the yard.
What happens when you call a woman out on CB?
That night, she slept in our bed for the first time since April.
This. Starting getting her respect back.
When she does go off on me about not doing this right or getting out the wrong clothes or whatever, I don't say a word or I just smile and move on to something else. NBD.
You need to say something.
"Wife, I know this is stressful for you. Next time you $!tch at me about nothing I will let you finish up on your own. If I see you need help I will jump in. That being said, "How can I help you in the morning so that things run smoother?"
Don't put up with CB.
You are stepping up and doing great, keep it up.
Cheers
You are doing good. This isn't easy; be proud of what you have done
Thanks, GW.
It doesn't feel like it, so that means I must be doing something right.
I am becoming proud of myself for admitting my shortcomings and taking steps to improve them/myself. I just hope it's not too late for my M and family.
Coach, it's always great to hear from you. No matter how much I think I screw up, you take the time to point out where I did well and where I need to step it up.
It's so easy to get confused trying to remember what to do and what to say. It boils down to doing what's right, not worrying about making her mad and standing up for myself and the kids. It should be so simple.
I have been here long enough and I need to step it up faster. I know better.
Thanks again, Coach.
IDU, I'm sorry that you had to go through the fear of a missing child and I'm so relieved for you that the outcome was good. I hope that you can help your S find an ally that he can talk to (a trusted adult)...it's so tough.
It's disturbing that your W couldn't keep her priorities straight even in such an extreme situation. Her reaction to that situation says a lot about her mindframe...not good.
You're doing well...don't be too hard on yourself. Expect nothing from her and see this as an opportunity to practice boundary-setting. I agree that you need to calmly refuse to allow verbal harassment from her -- you need to set an example to your children that it's not OK to allow even loved ones to treat you that way.
I'm not proud to admit that I have been the b!tchy wife at times during my marriage (I got a lot better in the last few years). It never helped when STBXH got angry and reactive in response, but it would have helped if he calmly set a boundary...because I didn't want to be acting that way and he could have helped me adjust my inappropriate behaviour by that kind of feedback.
hugs
Journaling-
Not a whole lot new going on here.
W is still sleeping in bed. Things are more relaxed in general. When she "goes off" on me or the kids, I call her on her CB. What do you know - instead of getting pissed and defensive, most of the time she immediately backs down. She doesn't really apologize but she backs off and changes her tune.
For instance: Mon morning we were getting the kids ready for school. I was doing breakfast and she was getting lunches packed. As the kids got done eating, I "schedule" them for brushing their teeth and going to the bathroom. I will tell one to use their bathroom and another to use the bath in our bedroom and the others have to wait their turn. While they are waiting, I will pick out their clothes with them and lay them out so they can get dressed when they are done.
One of the kids came up to W while she was packing lunches and said he needed more toilet paper in the bathroom. She told him to wait just a minute. I was helping on of the other kids and didn't know what was going on. He asked her again when she hadn't got it yet and she went off. "Give me a damn minute. I can't do all of this by myself. You are just going to have to wait." I heard her yell and came in to see what was wrong. S told me so I went and got him some tp and went back into the kitchen and said to W, "W, you are not doing this all by yourself. If you need help, all you have to do is ask. I was helping the other kids, not sitting around watching tv. There is no need to act like that with them." She started in about me not doing this right and taking too long for the kids brushing their teeth, etc. I said, "That's fine. You can do it alone. I didn't watch the news last night, I think I will right now." And I did.
That night, she was better and has been since. We are still far, far away from reconciling, but that's okay. I am prepared to go it alone if I must. She is going to church again with me and the kids. That's got to be a good thing. Then again, she may just be feeling guilty about what S did last week. IDK.
The more I stand up for myself, the more respect I get from her. Who knew? A lot of people did.... If the respect can move and grow towards trust and friendship, great. If not, it will still be toward a divorce. At least the respect will be there.
Sounds like progress IDU, one way or another. Hang in there, you are doing great. Missed you and all the rest while the site was down.
As long as she is not involved with the OM, I'd say being back in your bed is a good thing.
And going back to church with the family is a BIG positive step. While God won't change her mind since He doesn't interfere with our free will, He WILL lead her to things that may make her change her mind on her own. It's up to her to accept what He's telling her.
She still seems awfully irritable. Can't remember if you mentioned if she had depression. If the OM is truly out of the picture maybe MC could be a possibility again. I only say this since it seems like she is making a small effort to get herself back on the right track.
Hey, Pigskin.
Always good to hear from you! How goes things in your sitch?
The only involvement with OM is school stuff as far as I can tell. She will not give up the school board right now. I know that's something I need to insist on. If there is an attempt at reconciliation, it will be one of my boundaries. No sense in pushing it now IMO.
I am very glad to have her back in church. Since she took her new job, she is home on Sunday and has went with us for the last three weeks. I pray that God will speak to her as he has to me since I have finally started listening.
Her moods are terrible. I remember when I first signed up here, the name of my thread was "WAW Mood Swings". They have gotten worse, not better. What has changed is my reactions to them and to her. I'm still feeling my way around all of these different scenarios that she throws around. I have called her out on CB. Now I need to learn when to leave her be miserable and when to try to find out what's wrong and how I can help. I try to help but she often doesn't want it. At times, I go ahead and do what needs done if it's something I KNOW. If she continues throwing her fits or says to stop or I'm doing it wrong, I walk away and continue with something else. I'm still learning as I go but am no longer afraid of making her mad with my actions/reactions or lack thereof. KWIM?
Hopefully, she is making a small effort. I don't want to push her away by suggesting MC or Retro right now. When and if she's ready, I think her actions will tell me.
Let us know what's going on with you. Thanks, as always.
I updated my sitch in my thread so I won't rehash here.
You may want to do a search on depression and see if you notice the symptoms in your W. Although depressed people can't be forced into getting help, there are lots of things out there dealing with coping with a depressed family member that may be helpful if indeed you think she may be depressed.
All the best pal. I still have hope for you and your W and get encouraged when I see positive signs. Just don't let them affect your detachment or what you need to do for your own well being.
Keep leading and maybe she'll come around. Just don't EXPECT it, and you'll be fine.
I did read your update. It sounds to me like there are some positive signs in your sitch, also.
I am not as far along on the detachment train as you are. I am striving for it and feel I get better every day. Things she say or does still bother me; I'm only human. They don't control me or throw me into that feeling of hopelessness any longer.
You are in the right frame of mind for all of this. Of course you hope that she comes around. You are prepared if she doesn't and you know you will prosper either way.
Congrats on the job! Good luck and I'm sure you will be a valuable asset to the company.
Don't be a stranger. I still look forward to hearing and learning from you.
Take care.
I did read your update. It sounds to me like there are some positive signs in your sitch, also.
I am not as far along on the detachment train as you are. I am striving for it and feel I get better every day. Things she say or does still bother me; I'm only human. They don't control me or throw me into that feeling of hopelessness any longer.
You are in the right frame of mind for all of this. Of course you hope that she comes around. You are prepared if she doesn't and you know you will prosper either way.
Congrats on the job! Good luck and I'm sure you will be a valuable asset to the company.
Don't be a stranger. I still look forward to hearing and learning from you.
Take care.
My attorney just texted me saying the D petition was ready for my signature and after that, she would file it the same day.
Crap. Now that it's ready, I have that sinking feeling that I have not had in quite a while.
Not as detached as I thought.
It just may be the final push that she needs to recommit, but who knows. If you are not comfortable, you can wait a bit, right?
Wait for some better advice from someone else and don't do anything rash.
Hang in there buddy.
Yeah, Dan. I know.
I just called my L and she was actually reminding me that she had the papers ready. The were ready a couple weeks ago when my co-workers daughter got sick. I didn't file then. My L is really trying to talk me into doing it.
I'm tired of waiting and not knowing. I'm also terrified of taking that "final" step.
Really sounds like I'm leading and detached, huh?
The feeling of dread hasn't subsided as fast as I expected it to.
IDU, wait until it feels right. This isn't a game, it's your life. That is a big step to take and you need to know that you're doing what's right for you and your children. (((Hugs)))
I don't know IDU. I'm starting to think you should just push through it and file. You can still drag it out and you could always withdraw it. I think you have been scared too long and you need to keep moving forward. Just another step.
There may be dread, but it may be the only way out of limbo hell.
I know that I feel better now that I am not living with W anymore. My friends see that I am getting better too. It;s like bad medicine. You have to take it to get better.
Just what I am thinking for u tonight. I think it is the way forward.
I'm praying for you.
Thanks, FM and Dan.
I keep being so indecisive. It's a big decision to make. I'm sure my W can see that in my actions. I just don't know. At least I'm here with my kids. When the D or S happens, I won't be.
Not looking for advice, just letting it out. Let go, drop the rope, etc....It's the only way out. I don't want make it any easier on her. That's what I tell myself, anyway. And it's partly true. I want her to do the heavy lifting, telling our friends and family that she filed, telling the other parents at school and board members that she filed.
Of course, my L wants me to file first and go for temp. custody. We would still have to come up with a custody agreement, CS, etc. And it will be more expensive. I haven't really been told that there is a definite advantage of filing first.
So, I've decided to stay and keep calling her on CB and loving my kids as much as possible. I hate sounding so wishy-washy. I know it's no harder for me than anyone else here. I know what it took for others to turn things around. I just can't be the one to leave. I can't do it.
I can continue to push her buttons and try to get her to leave. I'm happy around her all the time and am always doing things with the kids. I'm going out tonite with friends and have plans tomorrow nite, also.
Doing my best.
Sounds good IDU. Lots of good reasons to stay. 4 very BIG ones!!
Good luck to you!
Sounds good IDU. Lots of good reasons to stay. 4 very BIG ones!!
Good luck to you!
I know it's not proper DBing, but I have to do it for them. And I mean finally be the person I realize I haven't always been. It means standing up for them when mom loses her temper and yells for no good reason. She has done other things, too, but no sense in listing them all. I'm sorry to say I haven't always stood up to her on behalf of the kids or myself. I do now and she doesn't get pissed like I was always
afraid she would. She calms down after a while and handles things better.
That has to be my plan. Everyone has a threshold and I will know when I have reached mine. More pain on the way, I'm sure. I have to be able to tell myself that I did everything that I could and I'm not at that point yet. I am fine if she leaves, I really am. I just can't be the one to leave the kids and have them ask why I left. I just can't.
(((hugs))) IDU. There is no roadmap for dealing with this stuff. I think that Ready2Change has the right approach when he says "what's right for my children is right for me". That's been my guide and it's helped me to do and be what I needed to when I felt weak.
I do wish for you some relief from dealing with the negativity of your W, but I am SO pleased to hear that you're working on boundaries with your W! Not only is that a wonderful personal evolution, but it's incredible role modelling for your children. Think of what they can learn from your example of calm, manly assertiveness. I like what
what David Deida writes about men tolerating bitchiness and complaining from their women.
Glad to hear that you continue to GAL too. Your children are watching that too, how you take care of yourself under adversity.
Thanks for checking in again, FM! I know you aren't around much anymore and I do appreciate the time you have given me over the months.
Journaling -
Had a great weekend with the kids. W worked at her bar job that is about 70 miles away. She left both days this weekend at 9:30am and got home after midnight. Before she left on Sat. she said, "I know you don't like me working here, but we could use the money for taxes, etc." I just said we have been through this before, it's her choice and she can do whatever she wants.
The kids and I just messed around the house all day Sat. Sun. we went to church, out to eat, watched a little football, went outside and played catch, rode the 4-wheeler, made a fire and roasted hot dogs and marshmallow's, played hide-and-seek and just had a great time together.
W texted me a few times on Sat and Sun saying nothing really important. I didn't txt back. Each time after about an hour she would txt, "did u get my msg?" I let those go, too. After another hour or so, I txt back something like, "yes, got msg. was on 4-wheeler,(or in the woods, or whatever) cya." Before, she would NEVER txt or call after I did.
This morning, she was getting ready for work, I was already dressed, she was very pissy. I went outside and had some coffee and enjoyed the fall weather. The kids were still asleep. I came in and she was at the table eating and S4 woke up and came running to me. W got up from the table and told him to come give her a hug, she missed him. He scrambled down and came back over to me. I asked him if her slept good and what her wanted for breakfast. He asked why I had my work clothes on. I said I had to go to work today. He started crying and said he didn't have school and thought I was going to stay home today. W came over and said that mom and dad both had to work today but grandma was going to watch the kids. He threw his arms around me and started crying. "I want you to stay with me, again, daddy." You could see W get mad. She had seen them a whole 1/2 an hour all weekend and didn't like it that he didn't seem to miss her at all. I told him to give mom a hug and kiss and he did, but came right back to me. The other kids got up and were basically the same; came and gave me a hug and just told her, "Hi." She got her stuff together and left for work, told the kids good-bye and said nothing to me.
I am not doing anything to turn them against her. She is doing it herself. I guess it's one more thing that she's blind to.
All in all, a great weekend. I wish she would wake up and see what she's doing to our family. I keep holding the line and call her on her behavior and love my kids the best I know how.
Still trying to let completely go. It's a whole lot easier when she's not around.
Agree^^^^
In the past, I told my W that I wanted to hear her say she was sorry. She said how could she be sorry for something she had never done? You won't hear it now and may never hear it. It sucks.
From this day forward - that's so important. I'm getting there, letting go of the blame and also the guilt.
Look to the future, whatever it may hold and forget the past.
She was honest. You did not want to hear "I'm sorry" just to hear it.
Did you respect her for that?
Did you respect her for that?
Don't really know how to answer that.
I really don't have any respect for her at this point.
On the other hand, you're right, I don't want her to tell me just because I want to hear it. It would be great to hear if it was from her heart. I don't need to hear it anymore, though.
“I am sorry that you feel that you don’t owe me an apology. I respect you honesty. How can I help you to feel differently about it?”
“I am sorry that you feel that you don’t owe me an apology. I respect you honesty. How can I help you to feel differently about it?”
Great answer!
I am constantly working on validating her
feelings . We have not had an R talk in several weeks, other than me asking if she has found a place to go.
I know there are different things I could and should be doing. Right now, I am just holding my boundaries and not putting up with CB. If she doesn't want to be here, I WANT HER TO LEAVE. The only time we have a calm discussion is after I go to the lawyer or she does. Then things are calm for a day or so. I should be pressing forward with the D. Like I said, I can't be the one to leave my kids.
How to lead without leaving myself, that's my big question.
How to lead without leaving myself, that's my big question.
By getting respect back.
By stopping her crap behavior calmly and decisively.
"W, I have decided that this is not working for us. It is best for me and for our kids right now that you move out. This is not healthy situation to be continuing. Can I help to find you a new place?"
IDU,
Leading without leaving has obviously been a big question for me as well.
I'm trying to do the following:
1. Be a damn good father, mostly by not letting my R issues affect how I treat my daughters. Support my W in doing the same, and openly discuss how we can achieve this.
2. Expect good behaviour from my W, and when I'm on the receiving end of CB, calmly put a stop to it. This has been one of the biggest changes in our relationship's dynamic, and it's simply amazing how well it works. We are so much more open in our communication than ever before.
3. Decide where I want to go with my life, and create a plan with concrete steps. Avoiding getting sidetracked by all of the day to day crap that happens.
4. Accept my wife for who she is now, and when she is interested, share the things I've learned about myself. Opening myself up to her (and my daughters).
One of the things I've really realized is how so much of the things I'm doing aren't just for me, or my W, but also for my daughters. They model so much of what I do, good and bad. Being a great dad is so much more for me than being the breadwinner and disciplinarian. So I guess I'm DBing my kids as well.
IDU,
Leading without leaving has obviously been a big question for me as well.
I'm trying to do the following:
1. Be a damn good father, mostly by not letting my R issues affect how I treat my daughters. Support my W in doing the same, and openly discuss how we can achieve this.
2. Expect good behaviour from my W, and when I'm on the receiving end of CB, calmly put a stop to it. This has been one of the biggest changes in our relationship's dynamic, and it's simply amazing how well it works. We are so much more open in our communication than ever before.
3. Decide where I want to go with my life, and create a plan with concrete steps. Avoiding getting sidetracked by all of the day to day crap that happens.
4. Accept my wife for who she is now, and when she is interested, share the things I've learned about myself. Opening myself up to her (and my daughters).
One of the things I've really realized is how so much of the things I'm doing aren't just for me, or my W, but also for my daughters. They model so much of what I do, good and bad. Being a great dad is so much more for me than being the breadwinner and disciplinarian. So I guess I'm DBing my kids as well.
Thanks a lot, Pin. I have been following along with your sitch and understand, I think, what you are going through.
Item #2 of your list is what has really changed me the most. I was always backing off of things and trying not to hurt her feelings and telling myself it wasn't a big deal. Obviously, it is a very big deal. We have to give respect to get it and also demand respect.
You are spot on when talking about our kids modeling our behavior. I have realized that more and more in the past few months. They seem to gravitate towards me, lately. I still dicipline them, but I don't yell and scream, I'm not sarcastic, and I don't make them feel stupid. All things that W routinely does. I also call her CB with the kids. She gets mad at first, but calms down and handles things a little better. They all come to me for help with whatever; homework, scratches and bruises, playing Barbie's or video games or monster trucks or whateve. W NEVER just plays with them. She very seldom ever did. And now she seem to act mad and surprised that they don't miss her after she's been gone for two or three days straight.
I really need to work on #'s 3 and 4. Where I want to go with my life is raise my family in a home that is happy and healthy. I have yet to be able to accept my W for who she is at the moment because I remember who she used to be.
I have to look to the future and plan out who and where I want to be.
2. Expect good behaviour from my W, and when I'm on the receiving end of CB, calmly put a stop to it. This has been one of the biggest changes in our relationship's dynamic, and it's simply amazing how well it works. We are so much more open in our communication than ever before.
^^^This^^^
It really works.
My W and I met at the restaurant for dinner last week. She showed up late and agitated about work. I listened to her rants and validated her feelings. We were about to start ordering food and I tried to change a subject. Although I made an error of judgment about the topic, it did not warrant what happened next.
I decided to talk about my work, unfortunately the topic happened to be something that irritated her even more (we work in the same industry and my company is her client). She got angry and started accusing me for ruining her mood. She would not stop and I asked the waiter to hold off with taking our order.
When she was done with her fit, I calmly asked her “I don’t like to be treated unprofessionally when we are talking about work related stuff.” She got even more angry and got up and left.
She drove around the block and came back shortly. She seemed that she was not done with me yet. Before she could re-start, I smiled and asked “You seem very angry, how can I help you to feel better?”. Her demeanor changed immediately and she sat down and said “I have a right not to talk about work when we have dinner together.”
To me it sounded irrational, because she was the one ranting about work all evening. But that was how she FELT at the moment.
I said “You are absolutely right. I agree with you and I will make sure that this won’t happen again”.
We had a nice dinner and when we got home she resolved the problem I had with my work by offering me a detailed solution that she was going to implement the next day.
How do you think this would have ended had I demanded apology for being disrespected in public, responded with a counterattack, reminded her who started the whole topic in the first place or just yelled back – me, me, me, you, you, you?
It works every time. It takes some self discipline.
All so very, very true.
And the key is to do it in a calm fashion.
I would try it before and when she didn't instantly calm down or change her mind and agree with me, I would get upset. "Fine, I tried looking at it from your point of view, but you still don't care. I don't know why I even try. You obviously aren't being rational right now. We'll finish this later." Then I would walk off thinking about how good of a job I had done and was so proud and full of myself. And I wondered why I seemed to be stuck in neutral.
I have to accept her feelings as they are at the moment. I can't ever get defensive. I have to remain calm and confident even in the face of what seems to be the certain end of our M. This has been going on for over a year. I have a lot of catching up to do. I am finally starting to understand why things work and why they don't. It does take a lot of self discipline.
Item #2 of your list is what has really changed me the most. I was always backing off of things and trying not to hurt her feelings and telling myself it wasn't a big deal. Obviously, it is a very big deal. We have to give respect to get it and also demand respect.
Backing off to diffuse does not work.
Validate her feelings not hurt them, but follow up the way she will realize that it was CB from her part.
You can't demand respect, you'll neet to earn it.
Backing off to diffuse does not work.
That's the point I was trying to make. I realize this, now. I no longer back off, I stand up to her behavior. It's a big part of what got me here in the first place.
You're right; I have to earn her respect. I am trying to do this by validating and not putting up with her CB. Demand is not the right word.
"Fine, I tried looking at it from your point of view, but you still don't care. I don't know why I even try. You obviously aren't being rational right now. We'll finish this later."
You can't look at it from her point of view, nor can she look at it from yours.
So what would you do?
If you do it successfully, there won't be a need to "finish it later".
I have to accept her feelings as they are at the moment. I can't ever get defensive. I have to remain calm and confident even in the face of what seems to be the certain end of our M. This has been going on for over a year. I have a lot of catching up to do. I am finally starting to understand why things work and why they don't. It does take a lot of self discipline.
Yes you do. The end of your M as you know it is inevidable. You don't want it like that anyway, do you?
Keep doing what works. Don't worry about how long it's been.
I have to earn her respect. I am trying to do this by validating and not putting up with her CB.
The trick that works for me every time is to end your statement with a question and it is always something YOU would do, not her.
"I agree with how you feel about this. How can I make you feel different?"
"I am sorry you feel this way about me. What can I do change that?"
"I can see why you don't like to do this. What can I do to help?"
Most often than not, the question remains unanswered, because it requires a thoughtful and rational response which is impossible while they are irrational and angry.
It sinks deep. They will catch themselves about to look foolish. Next time they will remember.
Checkmate.
Most often than not, the question remains unanswered, because it requires a thoughtful and rational response which is impossible while they are irrational and angry.
It sinks deep. They will catch themselves about to look foolish. Next time they will remember.
Checkmate.
Thanks for the tips.
I find myself being disappointed with myself for not catching on quicker. (Allow myself to introduce myself
) I was too caught up in my own hurt and pity to see what I needed to do. A year ago, I felt like I was running out of time. Sometimes I still do. But she hasn't left. If it's strictly because she can't afford it or not, I don't know. I have some time left to continue the hard work.
I have ended my statements with a question at times, only I would get upset when she came back with an answer that I didn't
want or with no answer at all. I see that's not the way to look at it.
journaling
W had school board meeting last night. Got home @ 9:00. She has not stayed out late the last three or four months. That's a good thing. Still very moody and didn't talk when she got home. I was/am sick, so I slept in the recliner so I could breathe. More of the same this morning. Her complaining that the wash wasn't done and there were no clean dishes, being snippy with the kids. I did wash all weekend and dishes. I ran the dishwasher last night but left a few big things on the counter. Wasn't expecting her to leave and had about an hour and a half to give four kids a little of my time and get them ready for bed. I maybe should have said something, but just gave the kids a hug, told them to help mom and get ready for school and I took a long hot shower. I had a low fever but think it's just a bad cold. Still feel like crap. Oh, well.
So, in the last three days W has seen the kids a total of about 3 hours. Her problem, not mine.
Twins have their first BBall game tonight. They are very excited. Can't wait to go cheer them on!
Interesting set of posts since I was here last IDU. Looks like you are learning and so am I from your thread.
Hope you enjoyed they BB game tonight.
You are doing great with this. Keep it up.
BB game didn't go the way the boys had hoped. We got beat 32-9. On the upside, our boys scored 8 of the 9 points. You should see their faces light up when they score, it's great. They each had several steals and were just as proud of those and of their rebounds. I'm trying to tell them how important defense is and to take that as serious as trying to score. They are getting the hang of it.
Sat by W and D7 and S3. We talked and cheered the team on. We went home and ate, I got the little ones showered, helped with homework and we put them to bed. I went to bed soon after. Still sick and was completely worn out. W watched TV and came to bed sometime early this morning. I have to admit, I had gotten used to sleeping alone and it was kind of nice not having her in bed with me. I sure would like a sandwich, but that ain't happening any time soon.
This morning was pretty calm and W was pretty calm. She had Wed. off each week and said she was going shopping and asked if I needed anything. I gave her my requests and left to take S4 to pre-K.
IDK, I have a feeling she may have went to her L today. That's fine if she did. I'm mind reading, but not dwelling on it or worrying about it. I'm the one who told her she needed a L and for her to go get one.
So, a good night. No CB from her, a little bit of niceness and no drama. Let's see if we can string together several night of that!
From Gucci on another thread:
I have never seen chasing and hanging in there with women work very well. I HAVE seen the tough approach work to perfection. However, it isn't for the faint of heart.
It is up to you to get to the peaceful place of...
"I really don't want or need this drama"
Once you do you will never og back to the place you seem to keep coming back to when a woman gets flakey on you.
Time to stop blaming yourself and time to start blaming her.
Find peace. you really don't need this drama. Once you prove that to her and let her really really wonder if she can NOT get you back.. is when she will stop it for good. I think she is addicted to drama and now needs some to escape her boredom of everyday life. She then got you to believe it is YOUR fault.. Expert job by her of getting you to fall for it.
I know in my heart that you are right on this one. One size doesn't fit all but I have been here long enough to know this is one thing I haven't done. I get close, at times, then get scared. I keep telling myself it's because of the kids. I HAVE to be able to tell them I didn't leave them. That's just where I am right now. I have a limit. Things have gotten better. They are no where near good.
Just talking to myself, here.
Things have gotten better. They are no where near good.
Because you have changed. Eventually it takes two to tango.
To quote Dirty Harry, "A man needs to know his limitations."
I have changed, Coach. It's not an overnight process even when you realize there are things about yourself that you need to change.
I can't help
feeling (there's that word again) that filing myself would mean that I am taking the easy way out. While there is no excuse for an affair, she didn't bail on me while I wasn't the perfect H. I know I have read where Greek said something to the effect of her doing what she did made you become the person you are today. (Forgive me if I am way off, here.)
I am okay if she leaves. I will fight for equal time with my kids. I think I am letting go and showing her the person that I want to be, even if it's a little at a time.
I keep going back to putting up with CB. It's amazing, after years of doing it and not wanting to make her mad, that calling her on it, even with our M in the state that it's in, diffuses things instead of making them worse.
I still don't know when I became afraid of standing up for myself. Sometime after the twins were born and things were overwhelming for both of us would be my guess. I knew she was tired and emotionally drained and I wanted to show her I could carry my weight around the house and with two, new little babies.
After that, I guess I never thought to get my ba!!s back out of her purse.
How pathetic.
I still don't know when I became afraid of standing up for myself. Sometime after the twins were born and things were overwhelming for both of us would be my guess. I knew she was tired and emotionally drained and I wanted to show her I could carry my weight around the house and with two, new little babies.
After that, I guess I never thought to get my ba!!s back out of her purse.
How pathetic.
I hear you there buddy. I was just trying to do what I THOUGHT would make her happy. BACKFIRE!!!
Well, we'll see how it goes now.
Here is another quote from Gucci that we need to remember.
Moral of the story..
Do NOT take them back UNTIL or IF they can PROVE to you over time that it will NOT happen again, that they are truly sorry, and what will happen if they DO let it happen again...
Do NOT take them back UNTIL you have fully forgiven them and UNTIL you KNOW that you can move on from it.
Reconciling for the wrong reasons or too soon is a recipe for disaster. Do your homework and make them do their homework.
Thanks, Dan.
I'm trying not to even think about "taking her back", yet. We are far from that point. Gucci's post is spot on, though.
Working on becoming the person I always wanted to be.
A little bit of good news: The home across from my parents is available. The deal with the other buyers fell through. It is almost 2500 sq. ft. and would be big enough for us. The asking price is in the low 40's and has been vacant for a couple of years. It will need a lot of work. I have friends and relatives who are carpenters and I can hold my own with repairs. The only cost would be materials. The realtor said as long as it's been sitting, to go ahead and make a lower offer.
Going to look at it this Sat. We'll see what happens. I don't want this to happen, but at least I know I will have somewhere to go that I can afford and there will be enough room for all of us.
Kind of excited despite what I am still facing. Feels good to have one less thing to worry about. As long as it's not a money pit.
The home across from my parents is available
I get that you have special needs with two small kids and being a single dad and all.
It's just that... man, as much as I like my parents, I'd like them to be far enough away that they will probably call before they come over
The home across from my parents is available
I get that you have special needs with two small kids and being a single dad and all.
It's just that... man, as much as I like my parents, I'd like them to be far enough away that they will probably call before they come over
Ha - I know what you mean. I will need some help for a while. The twins are 10 and not able to take care of themselves, yet. This whole thing sucks. I don't want to have to rely on my parents for any of this, yet I know, at times, I will have to.
Just trying to do the best with the hand I've been dealt.
Ahhhh, I think it will be OK living across from your parents. Especially if it is just you and the kids! Sounds like it will be a good place even if it needs some work. Don't look a gift horse in the mouth.
You are handy enough to fix it up. You may even be able to build some sweat equity! Do what you gotta do. This sounds like a good opportunity to get your life moving on. Take advantage of it.
Gotta run. Keep us posted.
Ahhhh, I think it will be OK living across from your parents. Especially if it is just you and the kids! Sounds like it will be a good place even if it needs some work. Don't look a gift horse in the mouth.
You are handy enough to fix it up. You may even be able to build some sweat equity! Do what you gotta do. This sounds like a good opportunity to get your life moving on. Take advantage of it.
Gotta run. Keep us posted.
Thanks, Dan!
It's far from ideal, but so is the rest of this mess.
This opportunity simply takes away some of the anxiety of having somewhere to go. I will have a little farther drive for work, which is an acceptable trade off. I can afford this even if I have to pay too much in CS.
And, with less anxiety, maybe I can DB more effectively.
The twins BBall game went great last night. Both did very well, again. I found myself remembering playing ball when I was that age. It doesn't seem like all that long ago. It is really great to see them out there having fun and learning and doing well.
At halftime of the game, I was out in the hallway with S4 and D7 and one of the teachers came up and was talking. She talked to the kids and was saying how well D7 was doing in school and how cute S4 was and how she couldn't wait for him to start school next year. The game was about to start and the hall cleared out and she called me back. She simply said if I ever needed anything, to let her know. There are many people here at the school that have my back and she was pretty sure that the super wouldn't be back next year. I didn't really know what to say. I asked if I could call her and meet sometime and talk. She said anytime. I will take her up on her offer. Part of getting my ducks in a row.
W pushed my buttons this morning. We were all eating b'fast and she had the kids' lunch boxes out and had started making lunches. She stopped to eat. My oatmeal and bagel weren't done yet so I just picked up where she left off and was finishing sandwiches. I asked one of the twins if he wanted mustard or whatever and W said, very snotty, "I'll get that when I'm done. Sit down and eat, I will take care of the lunches." I did not yell, but I did raise my voice for a second and recovered pretty quickly. "My stuff isn't ready yet. I can finish up the lunches, thanks." And I did. It really pissed her off. Why?
I get done eating and D is ready to get dressed. I'm in her room with her picking out clothes and W comes in. "Can I help or are you going to yell at me, again?" I said I didn't yell, I was just helping. "Yes you did and S10 started crying." I said, "Really? I guess I will ask him what's wrong." So I called him into the hall. I can hear her mumbling something about getting the kids involved..... I asked him if he had been crying. He said, no, why? I asked if he heard Dad yell, and again he said no. I gave him a hug and told him I was just checking and to go get ready. I did not get into specifics with him and let it go.
I know I didn't handle it perfect, but I think I recovered. You walk around with all this info in your head and still get caught off guard. My God, why would she take to lying about the kids action or reaction to me? I know she lies about what people say at school to them and how often, so it shouldn't surprise me. It did so hopefully I will be prepared the next time.
Live and learn, right?
I asked if I could call her and meet sometime and talk. She said anytime. I will take her up on her offer.
Nice! Glad to see there is still comething alive in there after all!
W pushed my buttons this morning. We were all eating b'fast and she had the kids' lunch boxes out and had started making lunches. She stopped to eat. My oatmeal and bagel weren't done yet so I just picked up where she left off and was finishing sandwiches. I asked one of the twins if he wanted mustard or whatever and W said, very snotty, "I'll get that when I'm done. Sit down and eat, I will take care of the lunches." I did not yell, but I did raise my voice for a second and recovered pretty quickly. "My stuff isn't ready yet. I can finish up the lunches, thanks." And I did. It really pissed her off. Why?
I basically got the same when I started doing my 180's on housecleaning. I asked another woman about this and she said that it would make her feel like she wasn't holding-up her end of the bargain or doing what she needed to do to contribute. I don't get it. They ask for help and then are mad when you give it? Maybe she just needs to prove that she is capable or it makes her feel independent or something.
My God, why would she take to lying about the kids action or reaction to me?
Probably trying to justify her actions in her own head?
That is sometimes all you can do.
Hang in there. Sounds like you are doing well.
I asked another woman about this and she said that it would make her feel like she wasn't holding-up her end of the bargain or doing what she needed to do to contribute. I don't get it.
Sat night BBQ you show up and the guy is cooking on the grill. He's got three different meats going, two sauces and vegatables cooking. Are you going to touch the tongs and move anything?
Inside the house the woman is prepping salad, appetizers, setting the table, filling glasses etc. What happens all the other women just jump in and help.
We on a trip over the summer and the maids came in to clean the room. We just got back from shopping and where laying around. When the maids starting cleaning the Greek jumped up and started to help, I just laughed and then she saw it too. It's hardwired.
I understand your scenarios, but then why do they get mad when WE try to help?
All he was doing was finishing the sandwiches.......
I understand your scenarios, but then why do they get mad when WE try to help?
All he was doing was finishing the sandwiches.......
That's why.
I asked one of the twins if he wanted mustard or whatever and W said, very snotty, "I'll get that when I'm done. Sit down and eat, I will take care of the lunches."
I understand your scenarios, but then why do they get mad when WE try to help?
All he was doing was finishing the sandwiches.......
I was getting ready to ask the exact same question, Coach.
I know I raised my voice a little. I did not yell. It did catch me by surprise. What is the proper way to handle it? After I regained my composure, I went back to making lunches. When she was done eating, she got up and started to help and then slammed the pantry door and told me to go ahead and fininsh if I "just had to." WTF?
I understand your scenarios, but then why do they get mad when WE try to help?
All he was doing was finishing the sandwiches.......
I was getting ready to ask the exact same question, Coach.
I know I raised my voice a little. I did not yell. It did catch me by surprise. What is the proper way to handle it? After I regained my composure, I went back to making lunches. When she was done eating, she got up and started to help and then slammed the pantry door and told me to go ahead and fininsh if I "just had to." WTF?
Because you are in her kitchen (literally and figuratively). When women want your help they want it side by side it's social and working together- connection. Not to fix the problem or pick up the slack.
I understand your scenarios, but then why do they get mad when WE try to help?
All he was doing was finishing the sandwiches.......
I was getting ready to ask the exact same question, Coach.
I know I raised my voice a little. I did not yell. It did catch me by surprise. What is the proper way to handle it? After I regained my composure, I went back to making lunches. When she was done eating, she got up and started to help and then slammed the pantry door and told me to go ahead and fininsh if I "just had to." WTF?
You interrupted her. She had everything planned and you changed the dynamic.
Very dangerous thing to do in the kitchen. Next time do dishes instead.
Because you are in her kitchen (literally and figuratively). When women want your help they want it side by side it's social and working together- connection. Not to fix the problem or pick up the slack.
That's why when I renovated our kitchen I removed the entire wall an built a bar.
Now I can sit at the other side of the no fly zone and socialize and be connected without being an obstruction.
When W wants a pot, a pan, or a glass, I can get up an get it for her. I never do it without being asked first. Mindreading makes her mad.
It works both ways too.
I kinda see your W's irritation there. Granted she is HYPER sensitive to anything you do that could even remotely be considered stepping on her toes, but if I was making sandwiches and then just took a break and you finished up for me without asking if I would like you to, I might be a tad irritated.
It seems to imply that "hey you are dropping the ball here/can't finish what you started/FINE YOU WANT ME TO DO THIS". And makes them feel that someone else is picking up the slack for them, so they should drop what they are doing and go back to finishing up before taking a break.
Over analysis to be sure, but if it helps you to see the situation in a different light, so much the better.
I'm sorry to be so thick headed, but.....
Do I-
1-Dive in and help.
2-Do it myself like I have been for 5 years.
3-Let her do it all.
When she got her job back a month ago with "normal" hours, I thought it would be great with both of us here in the morning. There would be less rushing around, and things would run smoothly. Just the opposite has happened. She is constantly yelling, telling the kids to hurry and do this and that, and telling me she can do it all. I have tried that, too, and she has mede the comment to the kids that she "can't do it all by her self".
I'm sorry to be so thick headed, but.....
Do I-
1-Dive in and help.
2-Do it myself like I have been for 5 years.
3-Let her do it all.
When she got her job back a month ago with "normal" hours, I thought it would be great with both of us here in the morning. There would be less rushing around, and things would run smoothly. Just the opposite has happened. She is constantly yelling, telling the kids to hurry and do this and that, and telling me she can do it all. I have tried that, too, and she has mede the comment to the kids that she "can't do it all by her self".
None of the above.
Ask "W, how can I help you to get things running smoothly?"
I'm sorry to be so thick headed, but.....
Do I-
1-Dive in and help.
2-Do it myself like I have been for 5 years.
3-Let her do it all.
When she got her job back a month ago with "normal" hours, I thought it would be great with both of us here in the morning. There would be less rushing around, and things would run smoothly. Just the opposite has happened. She is constantly yelling, telling the kids to hurry and do this and that, and telling me she can do it all. I have tried that, too, and she has mede the comment to the kids that she "can't do it all by her self".
None of the above.
Ask "W, how can I help you to get things running smoothly?"
Yep, "how can I help you?" is a powerful question.
I guess I'm missing the obvious. I have asked her that and she gives me the roll of her eyes and throws her hands up and lists the things to do; lunches, b'fast, brush teeth, get dressed...
I guess I should continue to ask and be prepared for her attitude and then happily go about doing whatever needs done?
I guess I should continue to ask and be prepared for her attitude and then happily go about doing whatever needs done?
Never put up with CB. Watch a John Wayne flick called "The Quiet Man" and see how he deals with CB.
I guess I'm missing the obvious. I have asked her that and she gives me the roll of her eyes and throws her hands up and lists the things to do; lunches, b'fast, brush teeth, get dressed... I guess I should continue to ask and be prepared for her attitude and then happily go about doing whatever needs done?
"W, if I want that kind of answer to a straight forward question I will call my mother."
Thanks, guys.
It seems pretty simple as I sit here and read my questions and your responses over and over.
I'm trying to help and keep the peace and wind up doing the opposite. Consider this lesson learned.
Thanks, guys.
It seems pretty simple as I sit here and read my questions and your responses over and over.
I'm trying to help and keep the peace and wind up doing the opposite. Consider this lesson learned.
Calm with confidence and a smile. It works.
I understand your scenarios, but then why do they get mad when WE try to help?
All he was doing was finishing the sandwiches.......
I was getting ready to ask the exact same question, Coach.
I know I raised my voice a little. I did not yell. It did catch me by surprise. What is the proper way to handle it? After I regained my composure, I went back to making lunches. When she was done eating, she got up and started to help and then slammed the pantry door and told me to go ahead and fininsh if I "just had to." WTF?
When women want your help they want it side by side it's social and working together- connection. Not to fix the problem or pick up the slack.
Now I got it!
Thanks!
Journaling-
Had a pretty good weekend. Took the kids to a farm/amusement park this Sat. Hard to explain. They have some little kid rides, pig races, petting zoo, haunted house, hay ride, pumpkin and apple picking, bon fires, roasted hot dogs, etc. W set it up through the twins group she is Pres. of. I went for the kids. I understand how she works, finally. I am included in things she needs help with the kids and not in activities she thinks she can handle on her own.
We were invited on Sun. to a small hayride and party and I was not included. I made her tell the kids that I wasn't going. They weren't happy.
I asked her a couple of times if she has found any where to stay and didn't get an answer. She still won't leave so I guess I'm stuck for a while longer. It's okay, I have already mourned the loss of my W but don't look forward to losing my family.
A teacher from the kids' school called me on Fri. and asked what was going on with W and the super. I told her to tell me first what she had heard or suspected. Same old story, everything I suspected a year ago is the same thing she talked about. She said they were both warned several times and they and especially he, being an employee, denied it. I asked her, if it came down to it, if she or any other teachers would go to court on my behalf. She said she could only speak for herself and that she would be happy to help me however she could. She thought some others would, too.
I wish I would have done this a year ago instead of burying my head in the sand. I'm feeling pretty good about my custody case. There are several things the teacher said that would help prove she was not watching out for our kids' best interests while she was at school coaching.
She is only concerned with herself and no one else. Too bad the courts don't always take all of this into consideration.
Glad you are coming around IDU. Stay strong and do what is right for you and your kids.
Thanks for the update and your support!!
Journaling-
I'm feeling pretty good about my custody case. There are several things the teacher said that would help prove she was not watching out for our kids' best interests while she was at school coaching.
She is only concerned with herself and no one else. Too bad the courts don't always take all of this into consideration.
I don't know about your state, but in mine, the default position is joint custody unless you can show some SERIOUS deficiency and neglect.
I don't know if you were talking about YOU being sure to get joint custody, or justifying full custody for yourself.
If it's the latter, you still want to think about the kids and not use custody as a punishment for your W. The kids want their parents, and depriving them of one won't be good for them unless they are getting abused/neglected. I don't think that is your intent.
I don't know if you were talking about YOU being sure to get joint custody, or justifying full custody for yourself.
If it's the latter, you still want to think about the kids and not use custody as a punishment for your W. The kids want their parents, and depriving them of one won't be good for them unless they are getting abused/neglected. I don't think that is your intent.
My intent is to make sure I get as close to 50-50 as is reasonably possible. We really have no agreement in place at the moment because she refuses to leave. She had said before, when bringing up D, that she wanted me to have them 50% of the time. Since she has spoken to her L, that has changed. She want residential custody, x-amount of CS and the ability to move. I told her there was no way I would agree to all of that.
I have at least one teacher, the school secretary, and three board members who said they will stand up for me in court if it comes to that. Also friends, neighbors and my priest. She was responsible for S4 breaking his collar bone at v-ball practice. She was investigated for child abuse by DCFS.(which I just mention for the possible fight. I don't believe she ever did anything to harm the child) I think I have my case for 50-50. But you never know.
All I'm trying to do is make sure I am involved in their lives. There is no way I am going to be a weekend dad. NO WAY! I hope to avoid any type of big fight in court and to get things ironed out ahead of time. I've read here and heard too many times that the XW/XH said and did things to try to get custody that nobody ever imagined they would do. Just trying to protect myself and my kids.
Well she's definitely given you cause to be extra vigilant when she says she wants residential custody and the ability to move.
Let's hope it doesn't come to that, but hearing that, it seems like you are definitely taking the right precautions. I don't think she has a case if she chose to fight you on it, but I'm sure you've told your lawyer all that so she is prepared for what you wife might try to pull.
Just catching up a bit IDU. It really concerns me how you're writing about the custody issue here. It sounds like you're preparing for a court case and a big fight. Yes, sometimes it comes to that but it's rarely the best scenario.
From her perspective 50/50 is really scary -- she gets less time with her kids *and* less money. Yes, as the father you're entitled to 50%, but remember that she doesn't necessarily know what your motivation would be in seeking that. In addition to wanting time with your kids, it could involve saving money or punishing her. I think it's time to sit down with her and make yourself a bit vulnerable. Let her know what it would mean to you to forge a positive coparenting relationship and have the children 50% of the time. She may be seeing your strong side, but when it comes to this she may need to be reminded that papa bear needs enough time with his children.
Remember that regardless of your hopes for your marriage here, you'll share parenting with her for the rest of your lives. You can be part of setting a strong precedent for the coparenting relationship right now, by providing leadership. "Lets look at our wants and needs here". "We both want time with our children". "The more we can work together the easier we can make this for the children". etc.
(((hugs)))
"She was responsible for S4 breaking his collar bone at v-ball practice. She was investigated for child abuse by DCFS.(which I just mention for the possible fight. I don't believe she ever did anything to harm the child"
I'm not sure I understand this part. If she didn't do anything to harm the child , including being neglectful, how is she responsible for the injury?
That's a serious allegation and as a trial lawyer I can tell you, saying things like that, if you are found to be exaggerating for effect, can do real damage to your credibility in court.
Just catching up a bit IDU. It really concerns me how you're writing about the custody issue here. It sounds like you're preparing for a court case and a big fight. Yes, sometimes it comes to that but it's rarely the best scenario.
From her perspective 50/50 is really scary -- she gets less time with her kids *and* less money. Yes, as the father you're entitled to 50%, but remember that she doesn't necessarily know what your motivation would be in seeking that. In addition to wanting time with your kids, it could involve saving money or punishing her. I think it's time to sit down with her and make yourself a bit vulnerable. Let her know what it would mean to you to forge a positive coparenting relationship and have the children 50% of the time. She may be seeing your strong side, but when it comes to this she may need to be reminded that papa bear needs enough time with his children.
Remember that regardless of your hopes for your marriage here, you'll share parenting with her for the rest of your lives. You can be part of setting a strong precedent for the coparenting relationship right now, by providing leadership. "Lets look at our wants and needs here". "We both want time with our children". "The more we can work together the easier we can make this for the children". etc.
(((hugs)))
Thanks, as always, FM.
Yep, I can go back and read my last few posts and see the fear there about the kids. I know a big court fight is never the best scenario. I am trying to prepare myself for the really crappy part of this. She wants this and this and this and then offers to let me keep the house. That is her trade off. I can't afford the house and to pay her a big amount in CS. The only reason I would want the house is to have a place that is familiar and comfortable to the kids.
Anyway, thanks for the reality check. Your entire post is right on the money. Your wisdom and common sense are always welcome and needed. I do okay for a while and then my defenses go up and I lose sight of what's really important. I have to find some compassion for my W and what she's going through. It's really hard though, you know? This is all her choice and I can't control her and I can't stop her from tearing our family apart. I hate it and I'm starting to hate her. That is not succsessful DBing, it's a defense mechanism.
I still have a lot of work to do on me.
"She was responsible for S4 breaking his collar bone at v-ball practice. She was investigated for child abuse by DCFS.(which I just mention for the possible fight. I don't believe she ever did anything to harm the child"
I'm not sure I understand this part. If she didn't do anything to harm the child , including being neglectful, how is she responsible for the injury?
That's a serious allegation and as a trial lawyer I can tell you, saying things like that, if you are found to be exaggerating for effect, can do real damage to your credibility in court.
This concerns me also. Within the last year I was actually looking after my D4 when she also broke her collarbone. I remember when you wrote about that incident and really seemed to be blaming her for what seemed to be an accident. Don't start building a case that she's a bad mother, even in your mind. It will poison not only your relationship with her, but also your family life and put the children in the middle of a fight. Unless there is serious info that I have missed or that you're not sharing here.
I hope you will read the Sandcastles book that I have recommended before. It will help you see divorce from a child's perspective. Very painful to read, but it provides huge motivation for creating a positive family life in the midst of divorce.
hugs
"She was responsible for S4 breaking his collar bone at v-ball practice. She was investigated for child abuse by DCFS.(which I just mention for the possible fight. I don't believe she ever did anything to harm the child"
I'm not sure I understand this part. If she didn't do anything to harm the child , including being neglectful, how is she responsible for the injury?
That's a serious allegation and as a trial lawyer I can tell you, saying things like that, if you are found to be exaggerating for effect, can do real damage to your credibility in court.
This concerns me also. Within the last year I was actually looking after my D4 when she also broke her collarbone. I remember when you wrote about that incident and really seemed to be blaming her for what seemed to be an accident. Don't start building a case that she's a bad mother, even in your mind. It will poison not only your relationship with her, but also your family life and put the children in the middle of a fight. Unless there is serious info that I have missed or that you're not sharing here.
I hope you will read the Sandcastles book that I have recommended before. It will help you see divorce from a child's perspective. Very painful to read, but it provides huge motivation for creating a positive family life in the midst of divorce.
hugs
This is, admittedly, something I can't let go of. It's all part of her behavior during this mess. She was only worried about coaching, spending time at school and spending time with the super.
In the last couple of weeks, I have found out from teachers and others at the school that the super was warned at the beginning of the school year, last year, about what seemed to be improper contact with my W and he denied it. Of course, she did, too. It continued to get worse and they both lied about the amount of time they spent together and the places they "ran into" each other.
I mention all of that only to back up what I was told. The super was told by the staff, teachers, etc. that he needed to tell my W to stop bringing our 4 kids to practice with her because they were unsupervised, especially S3. The super is also the Athletic Director and he said he would take care of it. I had also mentioned it to my W several times; How could she watch the kids while she was coaching? Why didn't she wait until S3 was in school and a little older to where he didn't have to constantly be watched? She said she had it under control and it was cleared by the school.(Meaning the super)
Yes, accidents happen. He fell while at school while she was coaching and was on the other end of the gym. She had no idea he was up on the stage. S9 was trying to get him to come down and was "in charge" of watching him. Sorry, he was her responsibility. I don't really think I am exaggerating. It is part of the bigger problem, to me. She does not, at this time, have her kids' or her family's best interest at heart. She is only concerned about herself. I am simply trying to protect my family and my kids.
I hope it doesn't come down to slinging all this crap. I want her to leave, she isn't the person that I married and she has never shown any sign of wanting to work on things. She doesn't see how I could get past everything. She still denies doing anything wrong while I continue to gather evidence that she has and a lot of other people have noticed. As I was told here all along, I should have "snooped" more when it all started. Instead, I let her convince me I was paranoid and jealous and it was my fault that she wanted out. Steve told me to snoop and I didn't want to accept that my W could do this. All this info could have served me better months ago, but it is helping me realize just where my W's head was and still is.
Like I said, I don't want it to go to a big court fight. I will not accept anything less that 50-50 time with my kids. She has suggested that is no longer acceptable to her. It would be "too hard on the kids". But only seeing me a couple days a week would be easier on them? I don't think so. I may be coming across as vindictive and I will admit that I am still mad that she would make this decision to tear apart our family, but I am not gathering this info to throw it in her face and publicly disgrace her or anything. I'm just trying to protect myself and my kids. I don't know how else to do that if she won't accept my proposal and she won't leave the home.
I know I'm still too attached to the outcome, but they are my kids, too. Maybe I'm feeling guilty having let it get this far and not put a stop to it all.
I agree with you IDU, stick to your guns.
My W also likes to claim that 50/50 placement will be too hard on the kids and she knows this because she has read so much on the topic. Well, our child mediator put her in her place on that claim saying, "Well, I don't know what you have read, but I am pretty up on the new literature and go to all kinds of conferences and the current thinking is that equal placement is best."
It would be different if you were a neglectful father, like your W appear to be as a mother. You have spent so much time with your kids and have done so much for them that I could argue YOU should have primary placement. DO NOT accept anything less than 50%.
In my own case, I have accepted 1/2 less dy than equal placement just to get the agreement done outside of the courtroom.
Fight the good fight IDU. You are in ther right here, but as Flowmom says, just try to keep the kids out of the war. You are a great dad and I KNOW you will!!
Soldier on!!!!
Thanks, Dan and Flowmom.
Trying to do what's right.
I still need to let her go...and mean it.
I will keep the kids out of it. Period.
Well, off to the twins Bball game. On Tues. night, our team had 36 points and my boys had 24 of those. Lots of rebounds and steals, too. It's amazing how much difference one year makes. They actually look like they know what they are doing out there! (Sometimes. :D)
IDU, I understand your concerns.
Can I share with you my thoughts on 50/50? Right after separation, the idea of my children not living with me even part of the time was horrifying and shocking. It was a huge leap for me to come to terms with them spending one night a week with H, and spending time at his apartment that I hadn't seen. It took me a lot of time to sort out "what's best for my kids" in my mind.
At this point, I believe that it's best for my children to spend up to 50% of time with their dad (though for me to accept 50/50 he would have to cut back on some of his work and leisure activities). However, I do have a lot of trouble with the idea of my children having "two homes". I know that this is sold as "two is better than one". But to me two homes equals no homes. I don't want to cheat my children out of time with their dad, but living between two homes is disruptive for them and they are the ones who pay the huge price for divorce.
What really helped me was that STBXH allowed me to gradually get used to the kids spending more time apart from me, and for longer stretches of time. Keep in mind that I was very much the primary caregiver and my kids are not in school or daycare. It took months for me to accept the reality of coparenting and to realize that I could accept up to 50% custody with STBXH.
Also, we had an agreement that any temporary custody arrangement would not be precedent-setting and would be subject to review every month. That allowed me to stretch my comfort zone as an experiment rather than feeling like I was agreeing to "forever".
To be honest, STBXH really cleaned up his parenting act once we separated. He realized that it wasn't going to fly to not have it together while he had custody of the kids and I wasn't there for backup. So my kids actually benefited from better parenting from the WAS after separation. He's not stupid and I'm sure he was warned to be impeccable in his parenting after the separation to avoid issues.
I'm not saying that any of this is a guide to what you should do. I'm just saying that your W has likely not come to terms with reality here and you guys haven't even separated. It will likely involve a process on her part.
You should look at the outcome that you want a year from now and develop a strategy for how to get there. Try to understand what your W is going through -- not because she deserves your empathy, but because using some psychology will work in your favour. I believe that I and STBXH both did that, and it has worked well so far. We didn't want to waste money on lawyers and we wanted a good coparenting relationship. We've both had to manage our emotions and reactions in order to establish a basis for working together. We are gradually moving towards a friendly collaborative relationship.
hugs!
IDU, I am emotional guy, so take what I say with a grain of salt, but it seems to me that you are the primary caregiver in this situation, not your W, who doesn't seem to give a crap about anyone but herself at the moment. I say F her feelings. Hopefully it IS horrifying and shocking to her to imagine living without her kids. This is the CHOICE that SHE made, not you. Maybe this fact will finally wake her ass up, but I doubt it. It doesn't seem to have had a big impact on my W, who was also horrified about living without her kids. Unfortunately for her, they are not HER kids, they are OUR kids and a big part of the problem in our R was the fact that she could not do ANYTHING without the kids. She couldn't leave them with a sitter or EVEN WITH ME for more than a couple of hours without having serious separation anxiety that caused her to FREAK OUT. Then it became MY FAULT that she didn't get to do anything. WAKE UP!!
I also do not believe that having two homes is the best situation for the kids, but EVERYONE will suffer consequences from HER decision. You have been there 100% for your kids and they would be devastated to have to live without YOU for 100% of the time. YOU are the ROCK in their lives. I think that YOU have a great case for primary custody if you so choose, but DO NOT settle for ANYTHING less than 50% custody no matter what SHE FEELS! Anything less would NOT be fair to your kids.
She MAY clean-up her act after you are separated, as Flowmom's H did, but who really knows. That is a leap of faith at the moment. PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE DO NOT settle on this. YOU are the primary and responsible parent in this situation and YOU are what is best for your kids. Obviously, you do want a healthy co-parenting relationship with your W, but I am not sure that she is capable of it at the moment. Do your best for YOUR kids.
Sorry Flowmom. As wise as you are, I just can't agree with you on this point if you are suggesting that IDU give up his shared placement rights to his W at this time.
I hope that I am not out of line here, but your W's FEELINGS about child placement have no place in this discussion IMHO.
All the best to you and your family and keep doing what is right for your kids. Stay strong.
Sorry Flowmom. As wise as you are, I just can't agree with you on this point if you are suggesting that IDU give up his shared placement rights to his W at this time.
I hope that I am not out of line here, but your W's FEELINGS about child placement have no place in this discussion IMHO.
Agree with Dan. Custody arrangements are a legal proceeding, and -- by design -- are adversarial. That doesn't mean that IDU needs to be an azz about thing, but he does need to look out for his children's best interests, without regard to his wife's feelings on the matter. In her current state, she definitely does NOT have the marriage's best interests at heart, but more importantly does not even seem to have the CHILDREN'S best care and interests at heart.
50/50 is what he should go far, nothing less. Maybe OM can help his wife deal with how she feels about that.
Starsky
Thanks, everyone.
I will not settle for anything less than 50/50. I only wish I was as adamant about other things.
Quick journal entry-
The boys game last night went well. They both did well and are improving every day. It is great to watch and brings back fond memories of when I was that age and playing ball.
I got to the game a little late, as usual, because of my work schedule and W was sitting with the kids and told me, "Sorry it's too crowded. You'll have to find somewhere else to sit." I smiled and did just that. I sat with some other parents and cheered my boys. At half time, I talked with some people and mingled. Took my seat back for the second half and enjoyed the game. Afterward, I talked to the boys, and held D7 and S4. They asked if I had just got there and I just said there was no room for me to sit by them. We played for a while and got a snack. W volunteered to stay and help clean up and I told the kids I would see them at home. I had a headache and was hungry. It was @8:15 when I went home.
They all showed up about 20 min. later and I helped get them showered and ready for bed. I went to bed when they did and W slept on the couch again. I really do sleep better without her, now.
So, that was my first taste of what things will be like as far as the school events with the kids go. It really sucked, but I made the best of it and put on my happy face and enjoyed myself. Something I must get used to.
Have a great weekend, everybody!
I got to the game a little late, as usual, because of my work schedule and W was sitting with the kids and told me, "Sorry it's too crowded. You'll have to find somewhere else to sit."
That's CB.
"Wife, you don't have to like me. Next time we attend a b-ball game as a family I want the courtesy of you saving a seat for me. If you don't I will take the kids and we will sit somewhere else together and you can join us if you like."
Don't ever get used to people treating you this way. If you don't think you are worth it nobody else will.
Cheers
What Coach said. ^
Starsky
Thanks. Point taken.
I am much better at calling her out on CB. It was crowded and I'm sure that I still want to make excuses for her.
It won't happen again.
Still learning.
Sorry Flowmom. As wise as you are, I just can't agree with you on this point if you are suggesting that IDU give up his shared placement rights to his W at this time.
Perhaps I was unclear. IDU, definitely go for 50/50. I believe it's best for everyone concerned. As far as you seeking primary custody, I'm not so sure.
1. it would create a huge amount of conflict which would trickle down to your children
2. your children need their mother too, even if she's not perfect...and especially young children
3. it will help you to have some child-free time to yourself to start cultivating an identity as a man, not just a husband and father. this might seem selfish, but honestly my children have indirectly benefited from the pleasure that I've taken in adult pursuits, dating and otherwise.
4. your W will probably be a better mother when you're not there (over?)compensating for her.
hugs
Hi idon't...
Your thread is very large...please start a new one.
Thanks,
sg-