I know I have posted and have a link already started but I just have a question:
What does it mean when your H gets upset or starts acting angry towards you when you tell him that you are going out for the evening? You see we decided this that we would each be able to go out since we are divorcing but when I say I am he acts upset and when I ask him why he says it isn't because he cares where I am going it is just that he wants to know the truth if I am seeing a guy? which is totally not happening.
Jealousy. Not that difficult to figure out, Katie.
Puppy
It isn't really jealousy yet because you don't have another guy you are interested in. What he is doing is searching for reassurance from you that there is no other man involved. He then feels better and then can keep the upper hand with you...
Your best bet to get this man to turn around is to PUSH for the divorce and tell him you are done. Keep going out on the town. He needs a crisis of MAJOR PROPORTIONS. That means he needs to feel you are done for good. Not just one day or one week, but for a few months.
Give him that crisis.
Ok...not trying to be mean here but Puppy that was a little rude of you to say. I was merely asking for help not someone to basically tell me I was dumb for not knowing what it meant.
Thank you Gucci Loafer...I agree with you, I am just trying to figure out if it is good jealousy like he deep inside wants it to work or bad jealousy where he is just ticked off because he doesn't want me but he also doesn't want anyone else to have me either?
I would go with the "bad" jealousy, for now. I don't know who is pursuing the divorce, but that would be my guess. You seem interested in the marriage, so it's he who isn't, and I would think that this "jealousy" implies that he still wants power over you.
Jealousy is powerful, and I'd say it's useful to you. I wouldn't give him any reassurance at all. "H, I'm sorry, but that's really none of your business anymore since we are divorcing. Have a good evening!" All done in a breathy, cheery voice. Go out. Have fun. Come in late and giggling, preferably on the phone.
I stopped paying attention to my H and started going out and enjoying myself. I made new friends, and I had one who would always have me call to tell him I made it safely home when I reached my doorstep. I'd come in late, make enough noise so I knew H would wake up (he's a light sleeper), and keep whispering on the phone to him. He'd crack a joke, so I'd always laugh.
Know what? H started to pay attention. I also made sure I was BUSY and looked great all the time. Would go to the other room and make phone calls, started wearing cute nighties, and treated H like he was just some guy I shared a house with. Detached.
Don't worry about what your H thinks. Start living life and having fun. Find your ability to be happy all on your own, and that will give you your best shot.
SD
Thank you for the advice it is very helpful. Sometimes though I believe it pushes him farther away. He has complained how he hasn't felt important for a very long time and so when I push him into the dark he seems to get more angry. I don't know I am so confused with him it is like a roller coaster sometimes.
I am just trying to figure out if it is good jealousy like he deep inside wants it to work or bad jealousy where he is just ticked off because he doesn't want me but he also doesn't want anyone else to have me either?
I will clarify again.. It is NOT jealousy.. You don't even have another man and you aren't seeing anyone. It isn't jealousy UNTIL you are interested in someone else. THEN he would be jealous. What you have here is a man who is testing you and you keep failing the tests. Each time he asks you if you are seeing someone, he secretly wants you to reassure him that you are not. He wants you to say "no, I am not seeing anyone.
No different than a betrayed spouse asking the wayward spouse if they are seeing someone else. The betrayed is HOPING the wayward will say no. They are looking for reassurance that they aren't being left for another person. When the betrayed finds out there IS another person, THAT is when jealousy kicks in. Not before..
I will say it again.. Your best bet is to dump your wayward and move TOWARD a divorce. Let him FEEL and think and believe that you are DONE and happy to get on with your life. Total 180. I would recommend that you start going out and having the time of your life. Mingle with the opposite sex. Become like a wayward spouse.
Life is too short. Don't waste it on someone who can't or won't reciprocate that love. It isn't worth it and it does NOT work.
I stopped paying attention to my H and started going out and enjoying myself. I made new friends, and I had one who would always have me call to tell him I made it safely home when I reached my doorstep. I'd come in late, make enough noise so I knew H would wake up (he's a light sleeper), and keep whispering on the phone to him. He'd crack a joke, so I'd always laugh.
Know what? H started to pay attention. I also made sure I was BUSY and looked great all the time. Would go to the other room and make phone calls, started wearing cute nighties, and treated H like he was just some guy I shared a house with. Detached.
Don't worry about what your H thinks. Start living life and having fun. Find your ability to be happy all on your own, and that will give you your best shot.
Perfect. This is correct. It WORKS on men. Women have a hard time understanding this about men. Give him a challenge.
Perfect. This is correct. It WORKS on men. Women have a hard time understanding this about men. Give him a challenge.
Men only value what they have to work for in my experience. Women too for that matter. I lost my attraction to H when he rolled over on everything, and I regained it when he called BS and dropped the bomb. No respect = no attraction.
Men only value what they have to work for in my experience.
EXACTLY..... That is why the "hanging in there" and hoping they come around seldom works. It just doesn't work. The hardest thing is convincing women and men to let go so that they improve their chances of reconciliation.
Nah. I buy the part about having to work for it. I don't buy that playing games is the way to get what you want. Never have, never will.
I never played my ex's games and he still seems to want to be with me, even though I've moved on. I was the one that did all the emotional work. So, nope, not buying.
Plus, if I have to play games, I'd rather stay single. Just not going to mess with someone's head, like I don't want anyone to mess with mine.
I do think a way to work at the relationship and make it more valuable to both partners can be achieved without the garbage of making them think you're with someone else. But it has to be done all along. Once I have to pretend to be dating someone else, I'm totally checked out.
I don't think it can BE a game. I think you really have to BE "checked out," or at least SIGNIFICANTLY detached, and out GALing, etc., so that the "mystique" and "aloofness" that you portray isn't a game or a technique, it's very REAL.
It's not game-playing; it's basic male-female human dynamics.
Puppy
I do think a way to work at the relationship and make it more valuable to both partners can be achieved without the garbage of making them think you're with someone else.
Please show me how it is done. Your way seems to have put you into the position of a second relationship failure. I always find it interesting that the ones who are failing are always the ones who say they "don't want to play" games. I then read their threads and find out that they ARE playing games. "Being his friend" when you really want more,(which you hope will work to bring him back into the relationship and love you back) reading books to find out how to make it better, etc. etc. You are playing games. You just don't want to admit it. You ARE in the game whether you admit it or not.
I think it is playing games to try and be a friend when in truth it is a way to get them to fall back in love and into the relationship. If you have to play the game of being their friend to get them back then I believe that can be called "garbage" too.
DBing IS playing games in combination with improving yourself.
But the games turn into real changes over time.
If you don't want to play games then you can't DB.
I wasn't playing games, I was finding a way to be happy on my own. I faked it 'til I made it, and when H decided to reconcile, I really was on the brink of completely moving on. If he hadn't decided to recommit then, I'm not sure I would have agreed to reconcile later on.
Did I put it in his face? Darn right I did, and that was mostly out of my own anger with him. You see, he'd NEVER opened his mouth about anything, always told me everything was okay when I asked him if choices XYZ were okay with him, and SECRETLY it wasn't. When he dropped the bomb and seemed so certain we couldn't work it out (and we'd never tried to), it killed me. I'm thankful for it now, but I was ticked.
Add to that he was pursuing this woman who, though she didn't return his feelings, totally fed off of the attention. I'd found love letters he was composing to her gushing about his feelings. I saw him saying and doing things that were his courting style. So I decided that if he thought I might have my own life that included other men who found me attractive, GOOD.
I should add that we were also in MC this whole time. I basically shut up and listened to all his complaints for the first 3 months and helped correct some of the mind reading he'd been doing. It wasn't until later that I brought up my own issues...he wouldn't have been able to hear them.
We are still together and have a much better R that we're constantly working on. I bring up issues directly now instead of letting them fester, worried about how he'll react. H is doing a better job of speaking up too. We treat each other with respect, and we feel comfortable looking at each other and saying, hey, I need you to carry the load for a little while; I just can't do it.
SD
these things seem to only work when you are still living together. when you are seperated and one person files, then what do you do? how do you make them 'fight' for you when they desperately want to get rid of you???
Ooh, yes, someone who resorts to ad hominem attacks is the ultimate catch. Someone who can't make a logical argument without ad hominems is the icon I look for in a man. FTR, that was sarcasm, and I won't waste my time explaining the rest. I would rather spend the time on someone who honestly wants to learn and also to help, rather than to go on the offensive to try to win a game without a prize.
DBing is to playing games as applying boundaries is to manipulation.
So I decided that if he thought I might have my own life that included other men who found me attractive, GOOD.
Oh, I see. It wasn't about making him think you had another man, but that others found you attractive. Do I have that right? I'm sorry if I was wrong on that point. I thought that because of the phone call, you were wanting him to think you were actually dating someone else.
However, at the point of separation, I have very little issue with dating, but pretending to date, yeah, that would be a problem for me.
I did think about this more, and one does need to weigh out their comfort level with such things. For example, I was brought up to think that divorce was one of the cardinal sins. Well, I still believe that it is horribly damaging. My choice was whether or not to stay in an abusive situation that was costing me my individuality and much effort I could be putting toward my children or to divorce. Both were certainly unpalatable and mutually exclusive. I had a difficult choice to make.
Sometimes, one is put in the position of choosing one unethical thing or another, and I respect anyone who can do so and come through with a shred of sanity. It actually sounds like a job well-done on your part.
these things seem to only work when you are still living together. when you are seperated and one person files, then what do you do? how do you make them 'fight' for you when they desperately want to get rid of you???
They [sometimes] work in the way of reconciliation, but at that point, the focus is on doing what is right for yourself.
Contribute to the relationship when the partner is, otherwise, you don't have a partnership at all. It's like playing tennis when the other person refuses to return the ball. The ball is in the other person's court. What do you do? Wait. What do you do while you wait? Take care of yourself.
Just for clarity, this is what I mean:
mind game - deliberate actions of calculated psychological manipulation intended to intimidate or confuse (usually for competitive advantage)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_manipulation
I don't think it can BE a game. I think you really have to BE "checked out," or at least SIGNIFICANTLY detached, and out GALing, etc., so that the "mystique" and "aloofness" that you portray isn't a game or a technique, it's very REAL.
It's not game-playing; it's basic male-female human dynamics.
Puppy
Right, when I was finally checked out, I didn't care what he knew and didn't. I try to be sensitive, and not flaunt my moving on, but I've made it clear that I am no longer interested in trying with him.
LuvsMeLuvsMeNot.......what's your scoop again???
It's there for anyone to read. If you have an honest question about it, then ask.
Man, Luvs, you seem ANGRY! I am going to read to see what happened!
OK Luvs-I found your thread! And posted!
I haven't been truly angry, yet. Rather, it seems to me that these gentlemen have been. I keep scratching my head, wondering what sin I've committed that offends them so much. *giggle*