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The Value in Thinking vs Feeling while DBing

Posted By: Coach

The Value in Thinking vs Feeling while DBing - 05/07/10 06:35 PM

See this struggle too much here not to address it.

Too many people here are fighting a emotional battle with their WAS. You have to realise that your logic will not change their feelings whether there is a A or not. Your words won't do it, your telling your WAS how sorry you are, how you will change, rubbing her feet, and pleading. These things reinforce how they already feel about you. To change the way they feel about you, you must change the way they think about you.

How do you do that? Most of us vets give the same advice in different words. The easiest and very productive way of changing the way your WAS thinks about you is to - agree with them (validate), drop the rope (let them go), and GAL (take care of yourself, become interesting). When somone comes in my office and is upset about their account the easiest way for me to calm them down is to agree with them. Now they can't be mad at me because we are on the same side of the table. If I try to tell them why they shouldn't be upset (logic) how are they going to respond?

Visualise the drop the rope analogy. Your WAS is running away and your R is the rope holding them back so the more you pull (pursue) the more they resist. Because the rope is causing emotional pain and you are the source of it. Who is going to be the one to change? (Last time I googled the "runback spouse" I got no hits.) So drop the rope - let them go, try something different, 180, walkaway - whatever you want to call it. Your own emotions (fear) keep you from letting go of the rope. (What if they don't come back?) It's not all in your control people. If you want to be a chick magnet make sure you a facing the right way otherwise you become a chick repellant.

Study up on the dynamics of relationships, marriage, attraction, and affairs. The DBing techniques are not unique to busting a divorce. The DB advice is about healthy relationships and loving yourself.

Understand what and why your WAS feels the way they do and think about how you can change their thinking about you. TEA - thought proceeds emotion and emotion proceeds action. Change your thoughts, open your mind, challenge your beliefs, try something different, look at how you see yourself, and detach. Get ahead of your WAS on the detachment curve and now you can lead.

This board has lots of different personalities and styles. None of us is going to give out advise that is designed to see you fail. We wouldn't be here if we didn't care or understand the struggle you are encountering. The advise is roughly the same regardless of the source. Remember your situation is unique just like everyone else.

Handle it by getting your thoughts squared away. What are my goals? How will I achieve those goals? Then monitor the results. Focus on solutions. I promise that if you get your thoughts in the right place you will be a success.

Cheers
Posted By: timehealsall

Re: The Value in Thinking vs Feeling while DBing - 05/07/10 06:40 PM

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^***************^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Posted By: Greek

Re: The Value in Thinking vs Feeling while DBing - 05/07/10 06:42 PM

whistle grin

Greek
Posted By: any chance?

Re: The Value in Thinking vs Feeling while DBing - 05/07/10 06:49 PM

Thank you for that, Coach. Your timing is perfect. I needed that.
Posted By: robx

Re: The Value in Thinking vs Feeling while DBing - 05/07/10 06:49 PM

Originally Posted By: Greek
whistle grin

Greek


and that's why she loves that big lug! ;-)
Posted By: Generosity

Re: The Value in Thinking vs Feeling while DBing - 05/07/10 06:52 PM

whistle whistle whistle ^^^^^
Posted By: Puppy Dog Tails

Re: The Value in Thinking vs Feeling while DBing - 05/07/10 07:00 PM

BRILLIANT!!!

whistle whistle whistle whistle


Coach, being the megalomaniacal narcissist that I am, I mostly save my own stuff in my personal archives (truth is, I'm too lazy to re-type it all the time, so I finally got smart and started saving it all in a Word document, so I could copy-and-paste it as needed).

Well, I've got one really good one from Robx that I saved (you may have seen me post it elsewhere recently), got your "Stockdale Paradox" description, and then I've got this from you, which is comparable (but I think even better) than the angle you took here. I hope you don't mind me re-posting it here:


Coach’s “Go by your Values and Beliefs, not Your Feelings” philosophy:

Respond in a way that reflects your values and beliefs not your feelings. As a Coach and a former military officer I know lots of ways to change how you are feeling. Feelings are fleeting, can be manipulated, can be dysfunctional, situational and are a poor compass.

Prisons are full of people who went with their feelings. To be a great DBer you need to be able to think. Detach and look at the situation in 360 degrees. State your goals (which are consistent with your beliefs) and come up with a plan of action. If your actions work keep doing it, if not try something new. Open your mind and don't let fear hold you back from acting.

If you love your spouse and let them go. It's not lying to do that, even though you don't feel that is the best thing to do. Understand your feelings, know why you feel the way you do and take healthy productive action based on your goals.

You have a choice in how you handle things. You can choose the path of love, self-respect, healthy communication, forgiveness and responsibility for your self. Or you can choose to be a victim, make others responsible for your feelings and let things happen to you. "Love your neighbor as yourself."

Don't let your feelings define you. Let your actions which is a sign of your character. Handle it.

Cheers
Coach


All my best to you and the Greek,

Puppy
Posted By: Forrest Gump

Re: The Value in Thinking vs Feeling while DBing - 05/07/10 07:18 PM

What is all this "Crazy Talk"? So many words!! I am so confused.

Nice post Coach!
Posted By: Steve McQueen

Re: The Value in Thinking vs Feeling while DBing - 05/07/10 07:37 PM

Originally Posted By: Coach
If you want to be a chick magnet make sure you a facing the right way otherwise you become a chick repellant.

As coach points out, the all important question, you must ask yourself,
what smells worse, my butt or my breath? smile
Posted By: june72

Re: The Value in Thinking vs Feeling while DBing - 05/07/10 08:06 PM

Puppy, I bet people would love a "best of the vets" thread! All that good advice you have compiled and saved. I personally would love to have an opportunity to view it all.

Not asking you to do it, but if you are inclined....


Posted By: Puppy Dog Tails

Re: The Value in Thinking vs Feeling while DBing - 05/07/10 08:10 PM

Like I said, June, it's 95% "The Best of Puppy" at this point, which I'm not sure anyone would pay to see. cool

I do think I'm going to try to start to capture some of the "4-" and "5-Whistles" posts of others, tho, cuz there's a TON of it.

Puppy
Posted By: DumpedforMIL

Re: The Value in Thinking vs Feeling while DBing - 05/07/10 08:11 PM

i second that.

it would help a lot of folks - including me.
Posted By: robx

Re: The Value in Thinking vs Feeling while DBing - 05/07/10 08:16 PM

Originally Posted By: june72
Puppy, I bet people would love a "best of the vets" thread! All that good advice you have compiled and saved. I personally would love to have an opportunity to view it all.

Not asking you to do it, but if you are inclined....


Quote:
".... Fella's, leave the tight pants for the ladies, if I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor."


- that's the best advice ever!
Posted By: futureunknown

Re: The Value in Thinking vs Feeling while DBing - 05/07/10 08:35 PM

MWD should be mining this board for material for her next book, if she's not already. The information here is gold, both in terms of lessons learned, and to learn about the various paths these situations take.
Posted By: june72

Re: The Value in Thinking vs Feeling while DBing - 05/07/10 08:38 PM

Too true Futureunknown,

I have to say I have gotten more insight from this message board than MC or the 3 months of IC I had.

Really wise people here.

Love it!
Posted By: DumpedforMIL

Re: The Value in Thinking vs Feeling while DBing - 05/07/10 08:45 PM

Quote:
This board has lots of different personalities and styles. None of us is going to give out advise that is designed to see you fail.


fail in what sense?

it often feels like people come on to the board to look for advice on how to salvage their m.

but then i see advice that suggests the LBS pit themselves against the WAW. it seems counterproductive to the person looking to save their m.

which leads me to believe that db isn't about saving marriages which most of us are looking for.

my guess is that you mean that the advice here is to designed to help us succeed in moving on - not in saving our m.

pls no 2x4 frown
Posted By: BobbiJo

Re: The Value in Thinking vs Feeling while DBing - 05/07/10 09:01 PM

I think for me that DB'ing is about recapturing/rediscovering your authentic self (apologies if I sound too new age-y bc I am so NOT!)...

But I think by the time the bomb goes off a lot of us, me for sure, have spent so much time twisting and turning trying to meet the needs of our now-walk-aways that we aren't the people that we used to be, which happens to be the person our spouses fell in love with. Maybe it started out as us getting 'comfortable' with the idea that our spouse would always be there and we got complacent. Maybe, like me, having kids caused us to funnel more energy into the wee ones and less into our marriage.

At any rate, at some point our paths diverged. Then once we got a whiff of our spouse's unhappiness/discomfort/whatever, we tried to 'fix' things, appease, compromise, etc etc. I know before I found DB I was at a place where I was willing to settle for just about anything as long as he JUST DIDN'T LEAVE ME!!! cry


Wow, how appealing is that? smirk

In fact once during a pleading session I suddenly saw how I must look and realized I was basically the shamed puppy (no offense Puppy!) showing my belly at my H's feet trying to earn his favor. Meanwhile he was 18 months into an affair...

But I digress. The point I am trying to make is that DBing helps take the focus OFF of the spouse and put it on you. Not so you can move on without them necessarily. But so you can remember just what it is you like to do, wear, eat, listen to, etc etc. And to remember that you are a whole person on your own, you don't need your spouse to complete you, they are there to complement you and vice versa.

Only when you recognize that you are a legitimate, worthy individual all on your own can you stand up for yourself and require respect from your spouse. And hold yourself to the expectations that come with a healthy relationship.

And at that point, when you have let them go live their fairy tale life and worked on healing yourself, that is when the WAS may look back to see why you aren't chasing them anymore.
And they may (I say may because the WAS has the free will to just never look back even if we hate that thought) look back and see that a strong, desirable individual has replaced their clingy, distressed and depressed spouse.

That is when you are able to decide whether you want to give them another chance to rebuild your relationship. It is true, sometimes you look and see that they have not grown and are not a suitable mate at this time. But if they haven't done 'the work' that would be true whether or not you improved yourself.

So to me the options are, work on yourself and perhaps rebuild a new, improved relationship with a spouse willing to do the same; or, improve yourself, discover that your WAS just isn't making the effort, and be a healthier person to enter into a future, healthy relationship with someone else.

Posted By: Forrest Gump

Re: The Value in Thinking vs Feeling while DBing - 05/07/10 09:06 PM

"my guess is that you mean that the advice here is to designed to help us succeed in moving on - not in saving our m."

Cause for the few that succeed.. that is exactly what helped them "win". At the very least it changed the direction they were headed. Sometimes.. you have to lead. Pay attention to who follows.
Posted By: Coach

Re: The Value in Thinking vs Feeling while DBing - 05/07/10 09:08 PM

Quote:
but then i see advice that suggests the LBS pit themselves against the WAW. it seems counterproductive to the person looking to save their m.


That's my point. We won't give advice that is counterproductive. The advice is going to be counter-intuitive to someone new. Give me a example of how someone told you to "pit" yourself against your spouse.

It was relatively easy for me to buy in to the DB concepts because of my professional and military training, sports experiences both coaching and playing, my spiritual beliefs and all the research I had done on personal growth and relationships. DBing can possibly help you save your marriage.

This is a very loving, supportive, interesting and caring group of people here. The common goal is to save marriages. If your spouse was here they would get the same advice. Have some faith that we want you to succeed in reconciling and becoming the best person you can. Those goals are not exclusive of each other.

Cheers
Posted By: DumpedforMIL

Re: The Value in Thinking vs Feeling while DBing - 05/07/10 09:16 PM

Quote:
And at that point, when you have let them go live their fairy tale life and worked on healing yourself, that is when the WAS may look back to see why you aren't chasing them anymore.
And they may (I say may because the WAS has the free will to just never look back even if we hate that thought) look back and see that a strong, desirable individual has replaced their clingy, distressed and depressed spouse.


BobbiJo

thanks for your explanation.
i'm not looking to hear what i want to hear.
but your explanation provided me some hope along with a dose of reality (the possibility that he may never look back to see the new me).

it almost made me tear up.
Posted By: idontunderstand

Re: The Value in Thinking vs Feeling while DBing - 05/07/10 09:28 PM

Quote:
This is a very loving, supportive, interesting and caring group of people here. The common goal is to save marriages.


Amen!

It is us newcomers here who are too afraid to put into action the advice that is given. Counter-intuitive is different than counter-productive.

If I would have listened to the usual vets who seem to greet most of the newbies when I first got here, I would be in a much better place right now. I guarantee it!

I would personally like to thank those who have given me their valuable time, rehashing the same points that they have told countless other people. It is all there for me and others to read. But people on here really do care. They will go over it personally with you, smack you with a 2x4 when needed, but make sure you get the personal attention that you need when you are at the lowest point in your life. Coach himself was on my thread most of yesterday spelling things out for me that he and others had told me before. I was very down and he knew it and came and helped. Many others here do the very same thing. I could list you all by name, but you know who you are. Thank you all so much!!!

It is up to each and every one of us to put fear aside and follow these wise and caring people. That, or wallow in our self pity until it destroys us. And sooner or later, it will.
Posted By: mza8

Re: The Value in Thinking vs Feeling while DBing - 05/07/10 09:29 PM

Boy, did I need this today. Been feeling a bit down today. Thanks Coach for the inspiration. I realized that I need to do the things you wrote about like letting go, GAL and no pursuing.

LOL..."runback spouse"
Posted By: DumpedforMIL

Re: The Value in Thinking vs Feeling while DBing - 05/07/10 10:00 PM

my updated sitch is in the separated forum.

i don't want to go off topic here so i won't go into detail about how i feel the advice was to pit me against WAH.

i have to say that the advice here does help me.
i do listen to the vets and i am use their advice to gauge my own sitch. i apply what i feel may work.
so far, i have been okay.

when i encounter a new roadblock and i don't know how to approach it, then i come back for more advice.

so far, i haven't received much attention and thus i start to panic and veer off my path.

it is threads like these that put me back on track.
thanks vets.
Posted By: june72

Re: The Value in Thinking vs Feeling while DBing - 05/07/10 10:50 PM

MIL,
I found it best to read as many threads as possible and glean from them what I found to be the best...

At times, there are people who give out some off advice..(not referring specifically to your sitch, haven't read yours yet)
Posted By: Ready2Change

Re: The Value in Thinking vs Feeling while DBing - 05/07/10 11:21 PM


Some things that work go completely against logic. At least until you can get outside your box.

Rejecting your spouse makes them pursue you. We see it here all the time. We are the rejected ones.

If I want one of my kids to snuggle with me, I start pushing them away. They cling tight to me.

On the other hand, if I am ready to be alone, I hold them tight, kinda let them escape, then say "COME BACK HERE!" and they run away......
Posted By: june72

Re: The Value in Thinking vs Feeling while DBing - 05/07/10 11:36 PM

When I have time I would like to compile all the books recommended on the Suggested Books thread. I personally love to read and learn that way too.

Just tight on time, but if anyone else wants to compile a nice list...

I think I will have to tackle it in stages, bit by bit. Copy it all into Word and at least have a list, then eventually divided by subjects...
Posted By: FindingMyVoice

Re: The Value in Thinking vs Feeling while DBing - 05/08/10 04:02 PM

Excellent and timely post Coach - thank you.
Posted By: Glimmerman

Re: The Value in Thinking vs Feeling while DBing - 05/08/10 08:12 PM

Use whatever terms you feel comfortable with, but "rejecting" your WAS and "detaching from" you WAS are two different things.
Posted By: Butterfly1

Re: The Value in Thinking vs Feeling while DBing - 05/09/10 07:36 AM

A few questions:

1) On agreeing...my IC who is also our MC said that sometimes this works, and sometimes this just gives the WAS the impression THAT YOU ACTUALLY DO AGREE AND WANT THEM TO GO even if this is not what you feel.

2) I know that coach has very good advice, but I"ve often wondered - does that particular advice work best for a LBS who is a man? I'm thinking the dynamics may be different for a woman.

THank you...
Posted By: Piano

Re: The Value in Thinking vs Feeling while DBing - 05/09/10 10:27 AM

I like your Q. 2, Hope4Luv.

Have often wondered the same thing these past months of DBing...

Would love others to weigh in on this!
Posted By: Cadet

Re: The Value in Thinking vs Feeling while DBing - 05/09/10 12:54 PM

Originally Posted By: Hope4Luv

1) On agreeing...my IC who is also our MC said that sometimes this works, and sometimes this just gives the WAS the impression THAT YOU ACTUALLY DO AGREE AND WANT THEM TO GO even if this is not what you feel.
There is no way to know how anyone will react however this method is not from coach it is from MWD. It works, read the success stories, that is what happened.
Quote:
2) I know that coach has very good advice, but I"ve often wondered - does that particular advice work best for a LBS who is a man? I'm thinking the dynamics may be different for a woman.
It is no different for men or for women.
Posted By: Butterfly1

Re: The Value in Thinking vs Feeling while DBing - 05/10/10 12:45 AM

ok - I'd appreciate it if you could point me in the direction of a few "success story" threads - I could use the inspiration! THanks!
Posted By: beingreal

Re: The Value in Thinking vs Feeling while DBing - 05/10/10 01:06 AM

Enjoying this thread. Dig up as many old posts as you'd like, it's all new to me!

And whats not new is certainly worthy of several rereads.
Posted By: Coach

Re: The Value in Thinking vs Feeling while DBing - 05/10/10 01:56 PM

Quote:
does that particular advice work best for a LBS who is a man? I'm thinking the dynamics may be different for a woman.



Men spend a lot of time thinking.
Posted By: theGoodGirl

Re: The Value in Thinking vs Feeling while DBing - 05/10/10 03:04 PM

Quote:
Men spend a lot of time thinking.


my wah thinks about himself a lot.
he feels sorry for himself.
had to hurt the one he loved in order to save himself.
he only thought about the pain he was in.
didn't think about the pain that he was causing me.
didn't even think about how much his words hurt me prior to the d-bomb.
often speaks before he thinks and therefore ends up saying things that really hurt.
but he never thinks about how hurtful he is.
he just thinks about how he can be heard.

yeah. men think a lot. mostly about themselves.
sorry if i sound bitter.
but i am.
my h will never realize just how his actions have caused our marriage to breakdown.
he's only pointed out how i failed to meet his needs.

oops .. the Good Girl has hijacked the thread a bit.
call it arm waving. i need help from coach.
my thread is in separated but i'm considering moving it to newcomers.

the Good Girl
Posted By: thegoodfight

Re: The Value in Thinking vs Feeling while DBing - 05/10/10 03:51 PM

Those in emotional pain and the "fog" whether male or female focus soley on themselves. The point that is one must act out of thought, sometimes what we feel can be misleading. Feelings change overtime, emotions can be overwhelming. We must rule our emotions not allow them to rule us.
Posted By: I_miss_him

Re: The Value in Thinking vs Feeling while DBing - 05/10/10 03:55 PM

Hmmm...I have read a bit of your sitch. And although I am new to these boards...my sitch has been going on since Nov 09. I started off with the very same attitude that you have. It got me nowhere....and we have 3 kids to boot. So not only was it me that he was abandoning...it was his children, our 2 dogs, our home, etc. I was VERY bitter. The second I let go and humbled myself is when we could finally stop arguing and have a normal conversation. The second I realized that perhaps his actions weren't the best ones to take, and that I have made my fair share of mistakes I could begin to let go. I have learned a lot.....and basically it all boils down to the fact that YOU are the only person that you have control over....Blame is like drinking poison and expecting your enemy to die. Regardless of what your husband has done to you....until you really discover WHY he is feeling the way he feels...and how this relates to you...nothing will get better....or at best you will put a bandaid on it.

Please don't take me the wrong way. Because I have been right there where you are. Full of anger, hatred, and thinking that I was nothing but a big ball of love for my H...all the while wondering why he could not see that!! smile Sooo....realize that this anger is part of the greif that you will experience through this process, but if you really want to save your marriage, really think about you. Honestly....put yourself in his shoes....is he stressed?....perhaps even take it a bit further....would YOU want YOU for a wife? If so, why? If not, why not? No one is perfect, not your H, not my H, not you, and certainly not me. But it took months to really humble myself and realize my shortcomings. Although my H has things he needs to deal with...that is not my concern....because HE has to deal with that. All I can do is focus on me, and on being the best mother and wife I can be....with or without his presence.
Posted By: CanadianKid

Re: The Value in Thinking vs Feeling while DBing - 05/10/10 04:34 PM

Originally Posted By: I_miss_him
.Blame is like drinking poison and expecting your enemy to die.
.


I really like that!!
Posted By: theGoodGirl

Re: The Value in Thinking vs Feeling while DBing - 05/10/10 05:01 PM

Quote:
Honestly....put yourself in his shoes....is he stressed?....perhaps even take it a bit further....would YOU want YOU for a wife? If so, why? If not, why not? No one is perfect, not your H, not my H, not you, and certainly not me. But it took months to really humble myself and realize my shortcomings.


i think this is the part i have the most difficulty with.
i don't know the real reason why our m broke down.
i'm only grasping at straws and trying to work on things but i don't know if i'm working on the right areas.

that's why i post and i hope that someone will read my sitch and find something that i haven't been able to figure out because i'm in a fog of resentment and anger.

my cry for help is really that i'm new to relationships and i don't know i'm working on the right thing. i let my imagination run wild often and it causes me to go into panic attacks. it prevents me from moving on in a healthy way.

the Good Girl
Posted By: theGoodGirl

Re: The Value in Thinking vs Feeling while DBing - 05/10/10 05:01 PM

i like that too.
Posted By: CanadianKid

Re: The Value in Thinking vs Feeling while DBing - 05/10/10 05:13 PM

GoodGirl, where is your sitch posted?
Posted By: theGoodGirl

Re: The Value in Thinking vs Feeling while DBing - 05/10/10 05:53 PM

i posted in the separated forum because i'm at the separated stage.
i used to be 'dumped for mil' but i've changed my name on the advice of some vets here.

thanks CanadianKid
Posted By: MrBond

Re: The Value in Thinking vs Feeling while DBing - 05/10/10 06:08 PM

Nothin' to add. Just sayin' "great post Coach".
Posted By: theGoodGirl

Re: The Value in Thinking vs Feeling while DBing - 05/11/10 04:01 AM

Bumping this thread. Best thread I've seen in a while.
Posted By: Butterfly1

Re: The Value in Thinking vs Feeling while DBing - 05/11/10 04:13 AM

Originally Posted By: Coach
Quote:
does that particular advice work best for a LBS who is a man? I'm thinking the dynamics may be different for a woman.



Men spend a lot of time thinking.


So this is why you are advocating changing how they think of us? And you are saying the GAL< the drop the rope, and the agreeing iwth them acheives this? I"m at the point I'll try anything as what I"m doing is not working! Anything else?

PS can you point me toward those success stories?
Posted By: JCJ

Re: The Value in Thinking vs Feeling while DBing - 05/11/10 10:48 AM

The thing about agreeing with them is that what is the alternative? To disagree with them which makes them stronger in their stance. If you agree with someone who has an opposing view they usually stop digging their heels in and it makes them question their thoughts.

If you don't want to agree with them per se, then just don't disagree with them. Then they have nothing to fight against.
Posted By: Cadet

Re: The Value in Thinking vs Feeling while DBing - 05/11/10 12:47 PM

Originally Posted By: Hope4Luv
Can you point me toward those success stories?
Try this link:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=postlist&Board=24&page=1

There is one list for women and one for men.
Posted By: Coach

Re: The Value in Thinking vs Feeling while DBing - 05/11/10 01:47 PM

Quote:
PS can you point me toward those success stories?


Define success. Then you will know where to look.
Posted By: Coach

Re: The Value in Thinking vs Feeling while DBing - 05/13/10 03:24 PM

Quote:
How to Get Through to Your Spouse
by Michele Weiner-Davis

Convincing your spouse to change is much easier once you realize that you have to appeal to their way of thinking, not yours. Get the tactics you need to put this into action.

Good Things Come in Smart Packages

Years ago I worked a great deal with adolescents and their families. I remember countless cases when the parents wanted their kids to do certain things but the kids absolutely refused. And then their parents would insist, offering reasons the kids should comply: "You'll learn good study habits," or "It will make you a stronger person," or "That's what I had to do when I was a kid." But the explanations weren't compelling enough, and nothing ever changed. After repeat offenses, the kids would get punished. No amount of reasoning with them made a difference. The kids thought they were right, and they weren't going to change. Never mind that they were losing privileges left and right.

When I approached things a little differently, I got better results. Sometimes I would get the kids alone and tell them, "It must really be a pain in the butt to have your parents breathing down your neck all the time and telling you what to do. You must hate it when they punish you." My words were music to their ears. Then I would wonder out loud, "Gee, I wonder what you need to do to get your parents off your back?" "That's easy," they would tell me; "I would just have to _____ [come home on time, make my bed, do my homework, and so on]" -- the same behaviors their parents were expecting. Although unimpressed with the reasoning their parents offered them for following the rules, they liked the idea of getting their parents to back off. Together, we would then scheme how they might "underhandedly" shock their parents by doing the things that would get their parents to back off. Sneaky, eh?

The obvious moral to the story is that even if you have the most incredible suggestion in the world, you might not be able to convince others of your brilliance if you don't approach them in a way that make sense to them. You have to appeal to their way of thinking, not yours.

So what does this mean for you? You need to review the way in which you've been approaching your spouse about improving your sexual relationship. You need to think about your packaging. Have you tried to motivate your spouse who believes that a good sexual relationship comes not from obligation but love, that part of being a good husband or wife is being a receptive sexual partner? While all your explanations might make sense to you, they might not click with your spouse. You need to think about what might motivate him or her.

I know a man whose wife wasn't physical at all, and this bothered him. He yearned for more physical closeness, even nonsexual hugging and kissing. His wife told him that touching feels good, but then for that matter, so does taking a hot bath, and a hot bath is a lot easier.

I asked him what he tells his wife about his need for more sexual connection and he said, "I say, 'I'm unhappy with the way things have been going. I need more affection,' to which she replies, 'So, what? There are things I'm unhappy about too.'" It wasn't until he realized what truly motivated his wife -- their children -- that he found a more effective way to get through to her.

He thought about the fact that she had devoted her entire life to their children. She home-schooled them. She chauffeured them, short-order-cooked for them, and tended to all their emotional needs. They were her life. He knew that her own parents had a very loving, affectionate marriage. He also knew how much she appreciated growing up in that atmosphere. And so he said, "Do you want the kids growing up not seeing any affection? Don't you think it would be better if they saw us hugging and kissing and loving each other?" That planted the necessary seed. The very next day, she agreed to go to a therapist. Good things come in smart packages.

Are you thinking about what lights your spouse's fire when you ask him or her to change? If not, alter your approach, and you'll have a better chance of getting through.
Posted By: FindingMyVoice

Re: The Value in Thinking vs Feeling while DBing - 05/13/10 04:18 PM

[quote=Coach]It wasn't until he realized what truly motivated his wife -- their children -- that he found a more effective way to get through to her. [quote]


Another very timely post for me, Coach - thank you very much. And you know what? I don't think I have a clue about what motivates my H. That sounds stupid to say I know. And I'm embarrassed about it. It makes me feel bad because then I think how selfish I must be, to not have figured it out. frown I'd like to figure it out though. And not just because it might help me to change some things. I'd also like to figure it out because he deserves a wife who 'gets' him. How on earth do I figure this out though? I'm so verbal the natural thing I'd do would be to ask him! But I know where that's gotten me in the past! crazy I know there's lots of folks here whose situations are so urgent that they need your insight a lot more than I do right now... so I'll understand if you can't reply. But if you have the time, I'd sure appreciate it. Thank you again, PG.
Posted By: Coach

Re: The Value in Thinking vs Feeling while DBing - 05/13/10 04:29 PM

Males talk when their hands are busy. How do men socialize - sports, hunting, projects. Do something with him to get him talking. If you are interested in what he is doing, join in with him and compliment him on his skills it goes a long way. Doing it for the reasons you mentioned is true giving.
Posted By: Puppy Dog Tails

Re: The Value in Thinking vs Feeling while DBing - 05/13/10 04:41 PM

Originally Posted By: Coach
compliment him on his skills it goes a long way.


YES!!!!!

Women often mistakenly believe that us guys like to be complimented on our LOOKS, or some other thing. But nothing pleases most men like being complimented on our COMPETENCE.

Find something he is genuinely good at, and then TELL him he's good at it. "You're such a good coach, Puppy" -- from my wife -- is pure gold to me.

Puppy
Posted By: FindingMyVoice

Re: The Value in Thinking vs Feeling while DBing - 05/13/10 04:41 PM

Originally Posted By: Coach
Males talk when their hands are busy.

Interesting!!! I didn't know that!

Originally Posted By: Coach
How do men socialize - sports, hunting, projects. Do something with him to get him talking. If you are interested in what he is doing, join in with him and compliment him on his skills it goes a long way.


Thank you Coach - I shall do my very best. PG.
Posted By: FindingMyVoice

Re: The Value in Thinking vs Feeling while DBing - 05/13/10 05:03 PM

Thank you, too Puppy! I appreciate the insights and it gives me a few ideas as to where to start. Just simple statements with no response from him required, though right? The odd time I've tried this in the past I think I've overdone it (and like you said, likely focused on the wrong kind of thing) and annoyed him. Anything other tips? You can't imagine how much I appreciate a mans POV on this.
Posted By: FindingMyVoice

Re: The Value in Thinking vs Feeling while DBing - 05/14/10 02:53 PM

Just sharing some results! Last night, I tried out your 'men talk when their hands are busy' insight. It worked!!! While H was making dinner, I brought up an issue that is less emotionally charged than R, but that he similarly finds it tough to talk about. (Thought I'd better try something a little 'safer' for us as a testing ground.) And you know? He talked! Not to an extensive length, but a heck of a lot more than what I'd heard before! Promising results! What a great feeling to know that my H might share something important with me. Even that little bit makes me feel - well - like I'm kind of important *to* him and that he might have more respect for me and my opinion than what I'd thought! This gives me the courage to keep trying it. Thanks again guys!

Oh! PS I also tried out your 'compliment the competence' insight too - I think it really caught him off guard! I just stated it simply, without a lot of fuss then shut my mouth... the look on his face was priceless! I don't think he knew what to say! smile Thanks again - really appreciate the advice!
Posted By: Greek

Re: The Value in Thinking vs Feeling while DBing - 05/14/10 03:05 PM

Prairiegirl,
Coach is right about the 'men talk when their hands are busy' bit. And we learned this firsthand while raising our sons. We read a book called The Wonder of Boys that helped us understand how boys are hardwired for communication in ways different from their sisters! And reading this book helped me understand all of the men in my life a little better. You might enjoy it, too, PG!
Cheers ~
Greek
Posted By: FindingMyVoice

Re: The Value in Thinking vs Feeling while DBing - 05/14/10 03:15 PM

Oh that's interesting, Greek, thank you! I will definitely read that book. We don't have any kids ourselves, and I've got one brother but he lives far away so we don't often get the chance to really talk. So the insights on how men communicate are greatly appreciated! Thanks again and have a nice day!
Posted By: Greek

Re: The Value in Thinking vs Feeling while DBing - 05/14/10 03:23 PM

PG - I've taught middle schoolers for many years, and I can tell you this book is DEAD ON when it comes to communication styles of the fellas. And I observe it in my brothers, as well.

Glad to help!
Greek
Posted By: PEI

Re: The Value in Thinking vs Feeling while DBing - 05/14/10 04:23 PM

Originally Posted By: Puppy Dog Tails
Originally Posted By: Coach
compliment him on his skills it goes a long way.


YES!!!!!

Women often mistakenly believe that us guys like to be complimented on our LOOKS, or some other thing. But nothing pleases most men like being complimented on our COMPETENCE.

Find something he is genuinely good at, and then TELL him he's good at it. "You're such a good coach, Puppy" -- from my wife -- is pure gold to me.

Puppy


Love this! Another great insight! Thanks!

PEI
Posted By: pandora

Re: The Value in Thinking vs Feeling while DBing - 05/25/10 08:19 PM

a good book i just read that helped understand male and female needs (and how they look very diff't):
How to Improve your Marriage without Talking about it
Posted By: pandora

Re: The Value in Thinking vs Feeling while DBing - 05/25/10 08:20 PM

btw, thanks Coach for your post, it was really on point. if you have time, i would be so interested to see your take on my sitch.
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