I'll try to make this as brief as possible. I thought I had a wonderful marriage. Looking back there were times that I was not emotionally there, partied too much, and we stopped really communicating about problems years ago. W suggested counseling several times, but I thought that our love was enough. Fast forward to late January. She drops the bomb, there's another man. They haven't had sex, but she has feelings for him and is torn as whether to leave me.
I almost walked out that night, but the next day decided I didn't want to lose the most important person in the world to me. Wrote her a letter and left for work. Came home and we decided to go to counseling. It didn't work, and was more "divorce counseling" than marriage counseling, trying to make us both more comfortable to walk away.
Found out through bank account and cell phone bill that she was still seeing him. I stalked her, smothered her, cried, begged, etc. I did everything wrong. All she needed was space, and I pushed her away. Instead of a jealous husband she needed a strong friend she could lean on, which in this case was the other slimeball.
Last Friday she left. She moved out and is looking for apartments. The other man is married with kids, and hasn't even told his wife yet, the coward. I'm glad I never called her, or he'd be out on the street and fair game.
We had dinner last night to discuss the mortgage, utilities, dogs, etc. (we have no children). I told her I was worried about her making rash decisions and trying to change her entire life in a month, after being unhappy for years (I didn't know!) I've truly changed my life. I've cut down on drinking, haven't stayed out late (except the night after she left), quit smoking, lost weight, etc. Too little too late. Left it as we're going to stay friends, and I tried to plant the seed that the other guy is not all he seems.
She agreed to not get divorced, but try staying separated for a while. I don't know how much she's seeing the other man, but I assume they're together. She did invite me out to two events we had planned for later this month with friends, so she still wants to see me, if as a friend.
I desperately want her back. We've been together for 12 years, married for 7. It's never been a perfect relationship, but she's my best friend and I love her with all my heart. Right now just trying to stay positive, confident, funny, and get in better shape to be more physically attractive to her. Tried to let her know last night that no matter what we'd always be friends, and that WHEN he hurt her I'd be there.
Today I'm thinking I'll give her a blackout period. Not initiate any calls, texts, e-mails, etc. Just give her time to think after I planted the seed, and let her calm down. But I'm desperate to get her back.
Looking for advice and support.
They are together. And you call the OM's wife and tell her.
Go read some of the active threads in the affair section.
Tough love needs to happen here.
Expose.
Lock finances.
Do not apologize for your actions.
Stop being her friend. She is sleeping with another man. When you need to contact her write this out on a piece of paper. It will make you stop.
Being her friend says. Hey I approve of this as I have no self respect. Each time you do this. You ruin your marriage even more.
You need to bust the affair first. Then you can start working busting the divorce.
Read this thread.
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...749#Post1896749Everything she says to you is a lie. And script.
So you have 2 choices here.
Choice 1 bust the affair with tough love and embrace the suck.
Choice 2 enable the affair with a complete lack of self respect.
You are a MAN.
Stand up. Deploy tough love. Expose. Do not let her know what your doing as you are a MAN. ACTIONS speak more than words.
And do not reply back that this may make her mad and be drawn to the other man.
CAUSE WHAT YOU HAVE DONE SO FAR HAS DONE THAT ALREADY.
And come here and get support and love from your fellow DB'ers
Any time you question what your doing... Ask for advice.
2 reasons I don't want to expose the affair.
1. As I mentioned, I don't think he's going to leave his wife and kids. My wife won't put up with that for long.
2. I don't want to be responsible for putting his wife and kids through what I'm going through.
God knows I've wanted to do it, but it seems spiteful and hurtful to the ones not responsible. And she has NOT slept with him. She's been brutally honest with me, and I do believe her in this aspect. I truly believe what she needs is time and distance to consider her actions.
I'm at a point that I still have hope for our marriage, but if it does end in divorce I can eventually accept that and move on. What I don't want to do is sabotage any hope I have by continuing to pursue her, and calling his wife is exactly that.
Disagree with me, I am open to debate on this.
If you didn't know your W was having an affair would you want someone to tell you if they knew.
What I don't want to do is sabotage any hope I have by continuing to pursue her, and calling his wife is exactly that.
That is not pursuing.
And she has NOT slept with him. She's been brutally honest with me, and I do believe her in this aspect. I truly believe what she needs is time and distance to consider her actions.
WHY do you believe her, why? Cheaters lie, period.
2 reasons I don't want to expose the affair.
1. As I mentioned, I don't think he's going to leave his wife and kids. My wife won't put up with that for long.
2. I don't want to be responsible for putting his wife and kids through what I'm going through.
God knows I've wanted to do it, but it seems spiteful and hurtful to the ones not responsible. And she has NOT slept with him. She's been brutally honest with me, and I do believe her in this aspect. I truly believe what she needs is time and distance to consider her actions.
I'm at a point that I still have hope for our marriage, but if it does end in divorce I can eventually accept that and move on. What I don't want to do is sabotage any hope I have by continuing to pursue her, and calling his wife is exactly that.
Disagree with me, I am open to debate on this.
IMHO. Your thoughts are wrong. You are in a fog yourself. I am not going to debate with you on this. I will restate my opinion. And you can go read about others who expose and who do not.
3 out of 4 people know why their lives are messed up.
1 does not. This is wrong.
She needs to know. It is the right thing to do. By not telling her you are enabling the affair. And you are mind reading. Want an affair to stop. Bring it to the light. Make it known. Bring crisis to their affair.
The second point. You are not responsible. Did you toss the two of them on top of each other. No. They are responsible. They are the ones who decided that they do not give a rats ass about your marriage.
Your wife has zero respect for that woman and her children. She is a liar and a cheater. She has zero respect for her marriage and zero respect for your marriage.
He has zero respect for you. He is a liar and a cheater. He has zero respect for his marriage , family and he has zero respect for your marriage.
The only brutal honest thing she has said to you was. You caught me. I am going to go off and be with this man in a guilt free environment.
Your wife is a liar. She is living a lie. You are enabling that by believing her. I am going to do a mind read here which is wrong... But did she tell you not to say anything?
Do not believe anything they say and half of what they do.
The path you are following leads to divorce.
2 destroyed marriages.
Your choice.
MAN UP
And learn what tough love is.
Her space and distance is to continue an active affair.
Trust me on this.
Go read.
I believe her because I know that she still loves me, even if she's not "in love" with me. I've done everything wrong up to this point, and this is the first thing that really feels right. Telling her I'm concerned for her as a friend, not a jealous husband, then going dark feels right.
I'll consider calling his wife, but I'm going to think long and hard before I do. I'd rather wait and see what happens. At this point it won't hurt anything.
My plan is to wait until the events planned together for later this month until I contact her again. I'll respond if she contacts me, but no more than short, friendly replies. If, by the 19th she's still seeing him and he hasn't told his wife, all bets are off.
As I said, I don't believe he'll ever tell his wife, and I'd rather have mine disappointed and hurt by him than me instigate it.
As I said, I don't believe he'll ever tell his wife
Why would he? He knows he can string your wife along and you are too scared to do the right thing. I know you are new here but the advice you are getting works. Waiting is not a plan.
I suggest that you read many threads where infidelity is an issue and see what happens when people do and don't follow the advice to bust the A. I think that when you are dealing with a WAW and you don't have the responsibility of shared children, a very strong response is a good idea. Taking the "nice guy" approach is not going to shock her into re-evaluating her choices. And the longer that you wait, the further things will progress in the A, whether that's physically or emotionally.
It sounds like you're doing a good job on 180s...keep that up.
Here's a book for you:
His Needs, Her Needs: Building an Affair-Proof MarriageThis outlines gender differences in women's and men's needs in marriage. A good place to start when you can't figure out why your spouse was so unhappy that s/he had an A, moved out, etc.
Well it may be a moot point. He lives out of town and has an unlisted number. (Oh yeah, he's a cop. Cool, huh?)
I am going to offer one more piece of advice.
Read this every day...
And become friends with the person who started this thread. You two are going to be going through this at the same time. And trust me on this. Friendships from the fire are very important.
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1951092&page=1
I'll try to make this as brief as possible. I thought I had a wonderful marriage. Looking back there were times that I was not emotionally there, partied too much, and we stopped really communicating about problems years ago. W suggested counseling several times, but I thought that our love was enough.
You still seem to think that. How's that working for you?
Fast forward to late January. She drops the bomb, there's another man. They haven't had sex, but she has feelings for him and is torn as whether to leave me.
Translation: I want to have my cake and to eat it, too.
Last Friday she left. She moved out and is looking for apartments. The other man is married with kids, and hasn't even told his wife yet, the coward. I'm glad I never called her, or he'd be out on the street and fair game.
You do not understand. He does not want to marry your W. If he did, he would have left his W by now. He wants to have an A with your W - that's all. He is a cake eater, too, and if his W knew what was going on, he would be gone-Daddy-gone from your W. Seen it on here a zillion times.
She agreed to not get divorced, but try staying separated for a while.
Letting you down easy.
I don't know how much she's seeing the other man, but I assume they're together.
So you now have an open M.
I desperately want her back. We've been together for 12 years, married for 7. It's never been a perfect relationship, but she's my best friend and I love her with all my heart. Right now just trying to stay positive, confident, funny, and get in better shape to be more physically attractive to her.
Pursuit. It won't work. You should not be doing anything for her/to her/with her while she is involved with another man. It just makes you look WEAK. Chicks don't dig weak.
Tried to let her know last night that no matter what we'd always be friends, and that WHEN he hurt her I'd be there.
Blech. Translation: "W, I'm going down quietly so as not to upset your fantasy life. Keep seeing him. I'll just wait here and maybe you'll want me later." Very unattractive to a woman. Long suffering is not sexy. Long suffering is ... long suffering.
Do you want an open marriage?
Greek
Broken,
You are getting some great advice here.
I WISH OWH would have called and told me about them. Yes, I eventually found out through phone records. My kids and may have been saved from the months of hostility and blame we were receiving from him. His dad was dying, and he was cheating on me, but he was blaming us for his unhappiness, and using that as an excuse to be away from home all the time. LET HER KNOW!
Affairs thrive in secrecy. The excitement from the secrecy FEEDS it. Make it clear to your W that you want to repair your marriage, but you cannot be her friend while she is actively destroying it and you! Co workers, friends, and family members need to know. ASK them to support your marriage by encouraging her to end this affair. Exposure is not done to spite or for revenge, but to bust the affair. Then, you back off while all h%^& breaks loose on them. I think you should also expose your knowledge to OM, ask him to respect your marriage and and leave your wife alone.
Yes, it is scary. It may push them together even more. Have you been able to keep them apart? Pushing them together and forcing them to look at what they are doing, while everyone they know is judging them too, and fight about it all, may force an ending. At least you can throw a wrench in the fairytale.
I believe they have had sex. She is in too deep to not have. Doesn't really matter tho, damage to your marriage has been done.
Get the book "Not just Friends" by Shirley Glass.
Keep up the good efforts on yourself. Do it for yourself, not to win her back. She did not get involved elsewhere because of these things. It is not your fault. You can look at why later, when you get out of this chaos she has created. Save yourself!
Keep posting. Even if you disagree with us. Some of us love to debate our advice!
BTW, I am in the dark, quietly watching things crumble.
Oh! and Don't date her! Go alone and explain why she isn't with you!!! Be proactive on this or she will be going around telling everyone how awful you are and she has to leave and then show up w/OM in a few months.
Tell me this. Has this actually worked for any of you? Has calling the OM's wife actually ended an affair in any case, or does it just destroy another marriage? I took my advice from the "While your wife decides" on the front page.
http://www.divorcebusting.com/a_while_spouse_decides.htm. It feels like I'm following a similar path, and that she's making excuses to hang out with me.
I'm trying to remain friends with the most important person in my life. I've battled with contacting the OM's wife, believe me, but with my wife actually inviting me out to do things with her in the next few weeks, and her having the time away to get her mind straight, the last thing I want to do is drive her further away. Yeah, yeah, I recognize what I've been trying hasn't worked, but this IS a different approach. What I tried was smothering, pleading, begging, stalking, etc. I was the jealous husband, and not a friend who recognized her fear and pain. THAT is the approach I'm taking now.
Regardless of what you all say, she is not sleeping with him. There are physical reasons that prevent it in the short term that I don't care to detail here.
The more I think about it, I know it's the right thing to do to contact his wife. I know I would want to know. At least my wife had the courage to come clean. But despite everything that's happened, it is very difficult for me to make a decision that may ultimately backfire and drive her out of my life forever.
Right now I'm trying to get his home number. I still don't know if I'll use it, but at least I'll have it ready if I do.
Oh, and Whatnow, I'm not dating her. I'm going with different friends to both events. In any event both are fun events that I don't want to miss! I plan on us all hanging out as a group, but to not spend too much 1-on-1 with her. I figure the more people around, the more comfortable she'll be with me there. And the more comfortable she is around me, the easier it will be for us to eventually have the 1-on-1. I plan to let her approach me and see what happens, but I definitely plan on staying sober and not getting clingy or emotional. I've already asked friends both nights to keep me from doing anything I'll regret.
Well it may be a moot point. He lives out of town and has an unlisted number. (Oh yeah, he's a cop. Cool, huh?)
My wife's OM was a cop, too (well, going thru the academy to become one). I exposed them, including to his parents (with whom he lived) and his sergeant, as well as to their employer (their affair was partially taking place at work).
Today, 2 1/2 years later, my wife and I are still together, and celebrating the birth of our first grandchild. Her affair was busted inside of 3 months, the financial/legal bleeding stopped, and we've been about the tough work of piecing our marriage back together.
YOUR WAY WILL NOT WORK. Please check my registration date and my # of posts. This does not include my posts under another username -- Chocolateeyes -- (since 4/12/2004, and nearly 2000 more posts). I have been studying literally THOUSANDS of affairs for over 3 years, and I'm sorry to tell you:
- Your wife is lying to you.
- She cannot be trusted.
- Patiently waiting, and "being her friend" will not work.
- By your approach, she is slowly losing whatever respect she has left for you, and since women tie their feelings of "love" VERY closely with their feelings of "respect," she is losing LOVE for you.
If you want a debate, join a forensic society. If you want to bust your wife's affair and have the best chance of saving your marriage, I'd urge you to follow the ADVICE that you've received here, from some very wise and experienced posters.
Puppy
The more I think about it, I know it's the right thing to do to contact his wife. I know I would want to know. At least my wife had the courage to come clean. But despite everything that's happened, it is very difficult for me to make a decision that may ultimately backfire and drive her out of my life forever.
Yep -- it is. No doubt. You've just been handed a big ol' stinking sh*t sandwich, Broken.
You're about to face a whole SERIES of "very difficult" decisions. You can either run from them, or try to run around them, or you can steel yourself and run straight into the storm.
Check out one of my old threads about heading straight into the storm -- you can find them all here:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...osts&page=1For reference, my wife's affair was from May - Aug 2007.
It's time to embrace the suck, buddy. There's really no other way that works. I know the article you're referring to, and I have great respect for MWD, but on this one matter, she's simply wrong, or at least my experience has been that the approach in the article is wrong. It doesn't work.
Puppy
P.S. To answer your question, YES, this worked for me (see previous post).
I think I've come to peace with this. I need to be able to look myself in the mirror and know that I did the right thing. I can't believe my life has come to this. This sucks.
Now I wish I'd done it early on, before she'd left the house.
After the call what advice? Cut ties? Keep in touch? Stay friendly? She's still coming home every day at lunch to let the dogs out (I don't go home at lunch).
Regardless of what you all say, she is not sleeping with him. There are physical reasons that prevent it in the short term that I don't care to detail here.
For a woman, an EA means even more than a PA. Just b/c they are not sleeping together, you would be a fool to believe this puts your M in a better position. It does not. The emotional connection for a woman is much more valuable than the physical. Fact.
Greek
I totally agree with you Greek. This would have been easier for me had she just messed around and come begging back on her hands and knees. But the fact that she (thinks she) loves him makes this 100 times worse.
I found the phone number.
PDT I can never bring myself to read the times of Chocolateeyes.
I find it too painful my self. Mind you I took a peak. Like the songs.
I totally agree with you Greek. This would have been easier for me had she just messed around and come begging back on her hands and knees. But the fact that she (thinks she) loves him makes this 100 times worse.
I found the phone number.
Some Paths start of rocky before they smooth out. But what matters is that you act.
And I do believe it would not have been easier. Just a different hurt.
You have to expose. Be ready for a s*** storm but this is the way to go! Your first step to getting your nads back.
an important question to ask yourself is
is she attracted to strong, confident men who are able to walk away from someone who disrespects and dishonors them, or is she attracted to men that are willing to share her, or does she hate me so much that it doesnt matter what I do?
Before making the leap would like to hear from anyone else than Puppy that this has worked for.
Read this from Dr. Willard F. Harley, Jr.
http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2324896#Post2324896Here is a thread about Recovery 2 years on
http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2243887#Post2243887Hell here is a whole section
http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=postlist&Board=30&page=1Do what you want to do. Most of us posting to you followed the path. She may not love you any more but she will respect you.
Do you understand it took time to destroy your marriage. That it will take time to break an affair and to MB. It takes Years.
You have to weight this against starting over. Or like some you follow both paths.
Eventually though one path ends.
Regret is rather interesting.
For it is better to regret something you have done than what you could have done.
So take time to read and see what others did that worked and did not work.
Then build a plan. Set goals and learn about the affair.
Your story is the same as many before you. Learn.
Okay, so she just called about the dogs. (Remember, she's still letting them out at lunch, and took a 1/2 day today to do laundry before heading home to see her folks.)
I remained calm the entire time. I asked her about apartment hunting, and she said it was looking better (finding a place that allows pets is tough here). I told her she didn't need to, that she could come home if she wanted. She admitted she'd thought about it. I asked her if she missed all the little things, she said yes. She said she didn't ever want to lose our friendship, and I told her I still wanted more - she said she didn't know if she did. I took this okay, since it's all I've been hearing for the last month +, and it wasn't a flat out "no." I told her to think about it. If she needs time apart that's fine, but just think about it.
I also told her the affair was cowardly and wrong, and that she's a better person than that. I know it's wrong to attack her, but I did it in a calm voice and she didn't get defensive.
She said she'd think about it over the weekend and call me Sunday. I know she misses the house, misses the security, misses my family, and desperately misses the dogs. She misses our friendship and all the little things. She just doesn't know if she still wants a marriage, but she still cares for me.
This felt like a positive step to me. We talked about her leaving in a calm, rational manner for the first time, and she voiced doubts. She's not 100% sold on divorce. For the first time since she dropped the bomb I feel like I have my foot in the door.
What do I do now? Do I sabotage the first real conversation we've had about the relationship without me being clingy/weepy/angry by calling the other slime's wife now? The timing couldn't work out worse. At any rate, his wife's at work and I don't know where that is, so it would have to wait until this weekend anyway when he's out doing his super cool cop stuff.
I'm going to sleep on this one. Any advice is welcome.
PDT I can never bring myself to read the times of Chocolateeyes.
I find it too painful my self. Mind you I took a peak. Like the songs.
I have never read them myself, for the same reason. As I posted last week, I just now read my journal for the first time.
(((shudder!)))
Some will say the timing is important...the way I see it here is you are thinking you've made some progress and don't want to rock the boat.
She is cheating on you- what do you think she'll be doing until Sunday?!
I would contact OMW whie the iron is hot- you mentioned earlier being fearful of ruining another M----he is ruining his own M. Think about his W sitting there buyig his BS...you have the key to bring her to reality as well.
I outed OM1 to his GF--she loves me now, thanks me everyday for letting her know...and the good news is OM1 is out of the picture completelt- the bad news is W is now w/ OM2...who is single and did not choose his GF over my W.
Am I better off? Not at all, but I helped someone else and did what was right.
P.S. I followed the path of Tough Love. I am proud of it. I did not save my marriage. I saved myself. And I am becoming a better man because of all this [censored]. A work in progress. But thats the secret about all this that is so profound once you figure it out and start living the DB life in all your relationships.
You have already received very good advice. Now we will await your actions based on that advice. Choose your paths wisely.
Okay, so she just called about the dogs. (Remember, she's still letting them out at lunch, and took a 1/2 day today to do laundry before heading home to see her folks.)
I remained calm the entire time. I asked her about apartment hunting, and she said it was looking better (finding a place that allows pets is tough here). I told her she didn't need to, that she could come home if she wanted. She admitted she'd thought about it. I asked her if she missed all the little things, she said yes. She said she didn't ever want to lose our friendship, and I told her I still wanted more - she said she didn't know if she did. I took this okay, since it's all I've been hearing for the last month +, and it wasn't a flat out "no." I told her to think about it. If she needs time apart that's fine, but just think about it.
I also told her the affair was cowardly and wrong, and that she's a better person than that. I know it's wrong to attack her, but I did it in a calm voice and she didn't get defensive.
She said she'd think about it over the weekend and call me Sunday. I know she misses the house, misses the security, misses my family, and desperately misses the dogs. She misses our friendship and all the little things. She just doesn't know if she still wants a marriage, but she still cares for me.
This felt like a positive step to me. We talked about her leaving in a calm, rational manner for the first time, and she voiced doubts. She's not 100% sold on divorce. For the first time since she dropped the bomb I feel like I have my foot in the door.
What do I do now? Do I sabotage the first real conversation we've had about the relationship without me being clingy/weepy/angry by calling the other slime's wife now? The timing couldn't work out worse. At any rate, his wife's at work and I don't know where that is, so it would have to wait until this weekend anyway when he's out doing his super cool cop stuff.
I'm going to sleep on this one. Any advice is welcome.
Peace is not the absence of conflict. Your convo with her was peaceful because you are not challenging her, and she can continue to cake-eat, unabated.
I will say this one more time, and then I will leave you alone. I only stopped here on your thread b/c someone asked me to:
THIS WAY WILL NOT WORK. Your conversation, that you think "felt right," was at first pursuing (by MWD's definition of the term), and then you tried to "teach her" that what she was doing is wrong.
Both big DBing no-no's.One of the misconceptions about DBing, in my opinion, is the "Do what works" thing. The problem is that people mis-define "works" as being "what doesn't make her/him angry" and "what makes her/him act nice towards me." Instead of as "what moves me further along down the path toward a mutually-healthy and committed marriage."
Sometimes one has to take a short-term "hit" in the "nice" department in order to solidify a healthier, longer-term gain.
And with that, I'll stop beating you up, as you seem to have your mind made up already.
Puppy
Chatterbug - I guess my point here is that the primo time to expose the affair was right away, and I let that slip because I was weak and stupid. Now that she's actually moved out, but still talking to me, and has expressed doubt about it, why would I throw a wrench into things? If things between us can actually improve to the point of her coming home, why kill that chance? I took this advice straight from MWD's linky on the front page "while she decides," and if nothing else it gives me hope, which gives me confidence, the ability to sleep at night, and the strength to face another day.
Another interesting point is that the other guy may actually get a full time cop job two counties away (where he lives), removing him from the picture, at least physically. I'd insist on total disclosure from her in the future (email, text, where she's at, etc) but am willing to wait to cross that bridge. I know he's a cake eater, he wants his wife AND mine. That bird won't hunt for long.
This is my approach for today. Yell at me some more! I've waffled on this since coming on here, and I feel like I'm getting good advice. If nothing else it feels good to talk to people who are coming from where I'm at. Earlier today I was totally ready to call the other wife, but my wife expressing doubts made me reconsider.
Thanks for the tough love, Puppy. Like I said, I'm still on the fence here. I'll see how the conversation goes Sunday, and I'm coming back here for advice. Actually, I'll probably be back on prior to the convo.
What do I do now? Do I sabotage the first real conversation we've had about the relationship without me being clingy/weepy/angry by calling the other slime's wife now? The timing couldn't work out worse. At any rate, his wife's at work and I don't know where that is, so it would have to wait until this weekend anyway when he's out doing his super cool cop stuff.
I'm going to sleep on this one. Any advice is welcome.
Next conversation with W: "Wife, I will not live in an open M. If you do not discontinue all contact with OM and be completely transparent about it (open cell phone records, email, etc), I will contact OMW and let her know what has been going on and that you will not discontinue contact with her H."
This will give her a chance to stop and prove it to you.
Greek
And let me be clear Puppy, I wasn't nice, I was calm. She wasn't nice, she just seemed rational for the first time in a month. Though she did call me "honey" which I thought was out of place.
Greek is wise. Listen to her. And the best time is always NOW.
This is my approach for today. Yell at me some more!
No thank you. I don't come here to yell; I come to share my experience with people who are eager to listen, and to apply what fits.
Your mind already seems to be made up, despite your claims to the contrary.
I hope you'll listen to Greek; she's smarter than me anyway.
"Move along, Douglas."
Puppy
This is my approach for today. Yell at me some more! I've waffled on this since coming on here, and I feel like I'm getting good advice. If nothing else it feels good to talk to people who are coming from where I'm at. Earlier today I was totally ready to call the other wife, but my wife expressing doubts made me reconsider.
I think you are afraid of your W. But you have to ask yourself this - what's the worst she can do? Have an affair and leave you? Too late.
Earn her respect now or you may never have another chance.
I did not have an A, but I left my H b/c of most of the WAW reasons. You should read his thread ("Coach"). He EARNED my respect, I moved home and am now more in love with that man that I was the day I married him. Tough Love works.
Greek
Thanks all, I'll post again this weekend (before the talk). In the meantime, I'm off for happy hour! I think I deserve a beer or twelve.
I recommend you pull the battery from your phone and lose it for the night....
I recommend you pull the battery from your phone and lose it for the night....
THAT I don't need advice for. I've been guilty of drunk dialing an ex girlfriend (only other girl who ever dumped me) and learned that embarassing lesson long ago. I'm not calling the wife, going to let her initiate all contact for now, unless I need to call for bills, mortgage, dogs, etc.
unless I need to call for bills, mortgage, dogs, etc.
I use email for all non-urgent "business". I find it helps to prevent a small issue turning into a bigger conversation.
It's done. I took Greek's advice and told her that if OM was too much of a coward to tell his wife that I would. My wife said he'd already told her. So that's done. She says they're "trying to figure it out." Whatever, I don't really care about his relationship.
Regardless, my W says she'd rather be alone than with me. She moved more stuff out. I was going to attend an event with her this coming weekend, and on the 19th, but I think I'll skip those. I'll let her contact me for house/bills stuff, but I'm through chasing her. I'm moving on with my life. If she ever comes back, great, we'll see what happens. If not I won't pine for her forever. Every day gets a little better. Time to get back to being myself again. Hardest part is remembering how to be single after 12 years.
do you really think OM told his W??
Do you believe your W just b/c she told you that?
Yes, maynard, I believe her. And like I said, it doesn't really matter. She says she'd rather live alone than with me, so it's a moot point. I don't want to be in a marriage with someone who doesn't want to be with me, so I'm washing my hands of it and moving on with my life.
Yes, maynard, I believe her. And like I said, it doesn't really matter. She says she'd rather live alone than with me, so it's a moot point. I don't want to be in a marriage with someone who doesn't want to be with me, so I'm washing my hands of it and moving on with my life.
I do not believe her. Sorry. This is the 3rd oldest trick in the book. "You don't have to tell my parents I failed my math test...I already told them."
If I were you, Broken, I would call OMW MYSELF and ask, "Is there anything else I need to know about their relationship and are there any questions I can answer for you. We have to protect ourselves and information will help in that area."
Cheaters lie.
She's not NEARLY upset enough for him to have outed it to his W. I've read on here enough to know that telling OMW means batsh!t bawling and sqwalling like you've never seen before. She's too quiet about it.
Greek
"My wife said he'd already told her."
"She says she'd rather live alone than with me"
Both statements are script! Don't believe either one.
Yes, it hurts...was meant to.
Talk to the W. Can you expose anywhere else?
"Every day gets a little better. Time to get back to being myself again. Hardest part is remembering how to be single after 12 years."
Try 24! It is hard so don't be too hard on yourself.
Yes! You are on the right track! Detach, GAL, take care of yourself...DBing.
Found this on another thread and it helped me:
What is detachment?
Detachment is the:
* Ability to allow people, places or things the freedom to be themselves.
* Holding back from the need to rescue, save or fix another person from being sick, dysfunctional or irrational
* Giving another person "the space" to be herself * Disengaging from an over-enmeshed or dependent relationship with people.
* Willingness to accept that you cannot change or control a person, place or thing.
* Developing and maintaining of a safe, emotional distance from someone whom you have previously given a lot of power to affect your emotional outlook on life.
* Establishing of emotional boundaries between you and those people you have become overly enmeshed or dependent with in order that all of you might be able to develop your own sense of autonomy and independence.
* Process by which you are free to feel your own feelings when you see another person falter and fail and not be led by guilt to feel responsible for their failure or faltering.
* Ability to maintain an emotional bond of love, concern and caring without the negative results of rescuing, enabling, fixing or controlling.
* Placing of all things in life into a healthy, rational perspective and recognizing that there is a need to back away from the uncontrollable and unchangeable realities of life.
* Ability to exercise emotional self-protection and prevention so as not to experience greater emotional devastation from having hung on beyond a reasonable and rational point.
* Ability to let people you love and care for accept personal responsibility for their own actions and to practice tough love and not give in when they come to you to bail them out when their actions lead to failure or trouble for them.
* Ability to allow people to be who they "really are" rather than who you "want them to be."
* Ability to avoid being hurt, abused, taken advantage of by people who in the past have been overly dependent or enmeshed with you
It's done. I took Greek's advice and told her that if OM was too much of a coward to tell his wife that I would. My wife said he'd already told her. So that's done.
No, it's not.
She's lying to you. You need to expose this YOURSELF.
Please listen to Greek!!
Puppy
Listen to all of us. And decide what path your going to follow.
I called her. She knew. I asked her to contact me if she had any new information, but I believe my marriage is over regardless. I don't even think I want it anymore.
Thank you everyone for your advice. Wish I'd come on here right away when I'd found out about the affair. I might have kept my wife from leaving.
I'm going dark. This sucks.
Embrace the suck.
We are here to help
Broken,
There is still much to do so don't ditch us just yet. There is a lot of valuable support on these boards for you. You have some mending to do within yourself, and some growing and some learning...b/c this won't be your last rodeo, if you know what I mean.
And just b/c she says she's done, doesn't mean she is. I've seen that here a lot. Hell, I even said I was done and look where I am (thanks God!).
Here to help.
Greek
Don't mean to hijack but I would love more analysis of my sitch from all of you wonderful people. I can't thank you all enough for sharing your knowledge and your honesty with everyone on this board. My W and I are about 3 months from D being final. Check out my sitch in the link below. Sandi2 has been helping and she is FABULOUS but could always use more eyes, ideas and encouragement from all of you.
Thanks,
Ken
Weirdness. W emailed me this morning to see how I was doing. (I emailed her last night at work to ask if she could let the dogs out Wed night - plans w/coworkers. I'm not going to e-mail her personal account anymore.) I replied, "good." I left the papers on the table for her to sign to divide the checking accounts.
Also, oddly enough, got asked out to drinks with a female friend going through a simliar situation. Feels good, helping me GAL. I'm sure it's nothing more than friends (misery loves company), but knowing there's more fish in the sea is helping me move on in my mind.
If, after time, W wants to come back and work on it I'll be open, but not even sure that's what I'd want right now after all the lies. (Okay, that's a lie on my part. Right now I'd do it, but sloooowly and with counseling - a DIFFERENT counselor!)
Staying dark.
LOL - and my W "likes" my Facebook status. Is she pursuing me, or am I reading too much into this?
"John Oliver = comic genius." I was watching The Daily Show last night. We're both big fans of the guy.
It's like she wants to be BFF's at the same time she's leaving me for another man. Pisses me off.
It's like she wants to be BFF's at the same time she's leaving me for another man. Pisses me off.
Maybe she is trying to normalize things by doing this BFF bit. OR or or...maybe she is checking to see how short a leash she can keep you on. Unfriend her on FB and see if she spins up. Don't answer her "how ya doin" text messages. Be dark and distant. See what happens. Should be interesting.
Many time WAS don't enjoy so much in reality what they wished for in their fantasies.
Greek
It's like she wants to be BFF's at the same time she's leaving me for another man. Pisses me off.
Maybe she is trying to normalize things by doing this BFF bit. OR or or...maybe she is checking to see how short a leash she can keep you on. Unfriend her on FB and see if she spins up. Don't answer her "how ya doin" text messages. Be dark and distant. See what happens. Should be interesting.
Many time WAS don't enjoy so much in reality what they wished for in their fantasies.
Greek
I already replied to this one, but all I said was, "good." She invited me to events on the 13th and 19th (last week, after she left home). I'm not going to cancel, but I'm not going to attend. I'm not on her leash, I'm through being her lapdog/doormat. We'll see what happens.
Being Dark means not replying , Not checking out what she is doing. Its a rest for you heal heal while she is creating and living in the vortex.
It will take a while for you to fully understand this concept. Its a tough one and its very hard to not be sucked back in. True dark would block her number and delete the emails without reading them.
Anyone one mentions her you change the topic.
Thats true dark.
It's like she wants to be BFF's at the same time she's leaving me for another man. Pisses me off.
It's actually very typical walkaway "script."
I told my wife that I had no intentions of being "best friends" with her (nor even a friend), if she ended our marriage this way (cheating on me, and lying to her own family about it, and refusing to work on the marriage). We would be CIVIL, and co-parent, but I'm sorry, friends don't treat friends that way, good lord!!
This shook her to her core, hearing this from me, and this -- along with the exposure to her mother and our D-then-18 -- had, I believe, the biggest impact on her decision to end her affair.
Puppy
PUP- I tried that b/c it seemed to work for you, and she didn't budge- the last time I told her there would not be a friendship, I was met w/ "but I thought you wanted me in your life."
I replied "I did not marry you to be your friend."
In hind sight, I should have just said "friends dont do what you're doing"
I suppose.
Just because she didn't budge now, doesn't mean it didn't have an impact.
I believe my words were along the lines of "Within the context of this marriage - I am your best friend. Outside of a married relationship - no."
And by the way, in case you can't tell from my posts, I'm a firm believer that sometimes a simple NO, is more powerful than any lengthy explanation.
Especially when it's the first one.
I'm just going to ignore all her texts, e-mails, FB posts, and stand her up for our "friend dates" this month. I'm not going to go out of my way to initiate a conversation with her right now just to tell her I don't want to be her friend. She'll get the point pretty quickly.
In the meantime, I definitely just got asked out on a date, and I'm going. My wife left me for another man. If that's who she wants to be, he can have her. Maybe we CAN even be friends someday.
Staying dark, but life's sucking less every day.
It does totally suck. My heart goes out to you. Be strong.
Listen to these wonderful people here. They are so right about what they are giving advice about.
Your wife is still in a fog and it's going to take alot of tough love to get her to snap out of it. The quicker you do it, the quicker it'll be lifted. I know you're petrified of losing her. It feels "wrong" to do some of the actions that are offered, I feel the same with my WH, but anytime I've taken their advice, it's worked! The smallest things can yield a tremendous difference and response from your spouse.
Every day is a battle for me as well. I'm finding it hard coming to terms with the "why" even though I know the reasons.
Good luck and be strong!
Puppy,
Long time no see. I just wanted to say "Hi".
Anyone getting advice from Puppy should be so lucky. Listen to what he says. When you get to the other side of all this, with a successfully restored marriage or not, you'll see that he was right.
And by the way, in case you can't tell from my posts, I'm a firm believer that sometimes a simple NO, is more powerful than any lengthy explanation.
Oh......that is good! I can't do it...but it's good.
PUP- I tried that b/c it seemed to work for you, and she didn't budge- the last time I told her there would not be a friendship, I was met w/ "but I thought you wanted me in your life."
It's not a speech you give, that you get a positive response to. It's a stance you take, and a position you live out in front of them, while they're going thru their stuff.
In time, she will see that you're serious.
My wife responded not to my STATEMENT, but rather to how I LIVED IT OUT IN FRONT OF HER, on a day-to-day basis, during her affair.
btw, your response to her was very good.
Puppy
So friend. What are your plans for today, this week. What are you doing living in the now?
PUP- I tried that b/c it seemed to work for you, and she didn't budge- the last time I told her there would not be a friendship, I was met w/ "but I thought you wanted me in your life."
You have to expect her to act negative to whatever you say if it doesn't go along with what she wants. You give your statement and when she comes back with an answer such as this one, you do not have to say any more........just look at her. Do not argue, don't get into a R talk(and that is exactly what will happen if you try to explain any further). The girl isn't stupid......she knows what you mean(she's baiting you.) After the "look", turn around and walk away. 'Nuff said.
I don't see that as being rude.....it is making a very strong statement.
So friend. What are your plans for today, this week. What are you doing living in the now?
Last night I went and met a friend for a couple drinks. She's going through a similar situation, call it the "Lonely Hearts Club." It was good to talk to someone who understands exactly what I'm going through. Tonight I'm playing poker with coworkers. I've started working out again, and I'm sleeping through the night. I'm dieting (next step, quit smoking again!) Planning dinner with friends on Friday, and relatives this weekend. I might go see a movie by myself, I haven't done that in years. Focusing on my job.
I have a much more positive outlook just in one week since I first posted. In short, I'm GAL-ing. Much thanks to the support from everyone here.
Incidentally, she e-mailed me AGAIN this morning, just an interesting story she found online and wanted to share with me (Corey Haim died, FYI). She really does want to have her cake and eat it too, she wants me as her best friend at the same time she leaves me for another man. I'm not replying.
Broken,
I too feel like I may be falling into a friend trap that while I would still enjoy having the contact with H. I don't want to get stuck in this trap. I have been seperated a year now. The last 5 or 6 months my H has said he isnt coming home. There is an emotional affair that I have exposed. He still contacts her.
You are getting great advice here. Hang in there and do whats right for you.
Puppy and Greek if you have time could you check out my post -seperated for a year-
hanging in there-
I realized I WAS falling into the friend trap, which was just making my life miserable, while making it easier for her to move on. No longer. I'm going to move on with my life and do what's right for me. At the same time I'm not going to make her feel "okay" with the situation. What she did it NOT okay, and I've come to realize that my behaviors of the last month implicitly condoned her actions.
Someday she'll wake up from her new fantasy world and realize what she threw away (12 years!) When she does, we'll see what happens. In the meantime I'm starting my new life without her.
Puppy,
Long time no see. I just wanted to say "Hi".
Anyone getting advice from Puppy should be so lucky. Listen to what he says. When you get to the other side of all this, with a successfully restored marriage or not, you'll see that he was right.
Man, where's one of them moderators with a "sticky" when you need one . . .
thanks PD! Good to hear from you, ol' buddy!
Puppy
broken go read my first thread.... about the initial joys of no contact... You will see some similar story lines...
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...680#Post1855680
chatterbug -
I do see very similar story lines. The waking up every morning at the exact same time, except for me it was 3:00, like I'd set an alarm. I'd go to bed optimistic, and wake up every AM having a nightmare about her leaving. I also lost 35 lbs in 45 days, still not exactly down to my ideal weight but making progress. I'm finally back to where I can actually eat three meals a day, but I'm eating healthy. I started smoking too much again, but that's tapering off and I intend to fully quit by April 1st. I did lose my temper several times with her, screaming and calling her terrible names. I regret the intentionally trying to hurt her, but I don't regret releasing the hurt and anger.
I've been seeing friends, including old & new female acquaintances, and not responding to emails/texts. I intend to be faithful to my marriage as long as it lasts, if only on paper. This is for my own soul if nothing else. But that doesn't mean I'm not moving on with my life. I'll date if it comes up, but I'll be fully up front about my situation. Wife and I agreed to a separation, no talk of divorce for now. I'll let her incur that cost, it was her idea to cheat and walk away. That said, I do intend to protect myself in any impending settlement.
Taking control of my life really started this week (it's only been 12 days since she moved out). With help from friends and family (and those on this board!) I can see the light at the end of the tunnel. I am fully willing to give my marriage another shot, but it has to be a two way street. I know exactly what mistakes I made in our relationship, and I intend to fix them, whether for myself, my current marriage, or for a future relationship. If she comes back, there will be full disclosure on both of our parts before she's allowed back in the house. There will also be a demand for two-way communication. At this point I have little hope of her actually coming home, so it may be a moot point. Right now I am moving on as if she will not.
Broken,
I have nothing to add - You have gotten amazing advice here!!
Bravo to you for LISTENING and IMPLEMENTING so quickly. I read so many posts where the guys get great advice and keep whining about how they are different and it doesn't apply to them...
Kudo's to you!!!
T
talia-
Advice here and from friends & family opened my eyes. I needed to take control of my life for my own sake.
My friend. Follow the path of tough love. She may never love you again. But she will respect you. Some pains must be experienced fully to give yourself the gift of growth. Soon your thoughts will shift from I am doing this for her to I am doing this for myself.
Healthy choices and Why not try to quit smoking now. Because NOW is always the best time to make healthy decisions. You already feel like a bag of Sheeeeiitttttt. Just add a little more to it.
I agree with CB - wouldn't NOW be the BEST time to start??
T
LOL, now I'm getting advice on quitting smoking!
Believe me, it's coming. Right now it's a crutch to get me through, I plan to quit cold turkey by April 1st at the latest.
I wrote her the "dear wife" letter yesterday, but I haven't delivered it. If nothing else it helped get my thoughts in order. I wrote, "You lied to me, you cheated on me, and you left me when I needed you most. These are not the actions of a friend. I can no longer implicitly condone your actions by remaining your friend. You walked out on our friendship for the love and friendship of another man." Etc.
Again, probably won't deliver the actual letter, but it helped get my ducks in a row. For now just giving her the silent treatment. She e-mails me something interesting, I e-mail her back I changed the checking accounts. She texts me about the dogs, I text her back I want my sunglasses out of her car. I think she's still planning on seeing me at the events we planned this weekend and next. I'm not cancelling, but I'm not going. When she calls to see if I'm "okay" I'll give her the speech.
Best not to give her that one. Best to keep dark right now. And take that letter and file it away, burn it , rip it up... what ever. Thats a gift for yourself. Relief.
Do not give her that letter.
Stop replying to her emails. If its not important. Ignore. She is not your friend or buddy. You already have them.
Keep to the high road. It pays dividends in the end.
Broken,
FWIW... I have an entire notebook of "letters" written to H. Every time I wanted to say things I knew would be against my goals - I wrote them out. It made me feel better to express them, and I didn't do any damage. I have been able to look back and see my progress with my PMA.
Not sure if that would help you... but its kept me from saying things that won't help!
T
Good advice. I won't send the letter, but it did help me to get my thoughts in order, and like talia says will keep me from saying something I'll regret.
I just got the "Will you be home tonight? We need to talk." I'm guessing this is the discussion about splitting stuff up so she can get her apartment and move on with her new fantasy life, and sharing custody of the dogs.
Thanks to everyone on this board for your help. Your advice and support has put me in a much better place so that I will be able to handle this conversation rationally, knowing that I'm already in a better place than when she left.
Don't commit to anything. As I told someone else just recently:
Here's the thing: if someone is in an ongoing, unrepentant affair, there are only a few types of conversations/communications they can have with their betrayed spouse, and ALL of them are cheeseless tunnels for the BS:
1) NEGATIVE ones. Blame-making, re-writing marital history, angry outbursts, fight-picking, etc. 'nuff said.
2) Seemingly POSITIVE ones. So long as they are still in contact with OM/OW and lying to their spouse about it, these are all "bullchit spin" at best, and outright GASLIGHTING and LIES at worse. And the problem is, the betrayed spouse inevitably sees this as "baby steps!" and true marital progress, when they are no such thing. They can lead to horrible strategic and tactical mistakes, esp. if the BS doesn't have a good intel system in place. Reading my old journal yesterday, I was BLOWN AWAY at how stable I was able to be in the face of my wife's deceit, simply because I HAD INTEL TO SHOW ME OTHERWISE. This can't be overemphasized.
3) LEGAL/FINANCIAL ones. These are best handled by your attorney, for the obvious reasons. If you start negotiating yourself, when you are way, way, WAY too emotionally entrenched in the situation (and also often running on too-little sleep and WAY too-little emotional needs of your own being met), YOU WILL MAKE FOOLISH MISTAKES and UNWISE CONCESSIONS.
4) FAMILY/LOGISTICAL ones. These are fine, but best handled via e-mail or text message. A cheating spouse will use these as a ploy to lure you into R convos and worse; SEE #1 ABOVE.
5) SMALL-TALK. This is fine, but only in RESPONSE -- don't initiate it if your strategy is to go "dim" and if it's to go "dark" you shouldn't even respond. If it's "dim," then only respond to one of every several communications, and usually delayed, because you're BUSY and GETTING A LIFE, remember?
Puppy
Personally (and I know this is tough, because your gut's in a knot and you're dying to put this convo behind you), I would have liked to see you respond "Actually, I had plans tonite, and am going to be home kinda late. How about tomorrow afternoon, maybe we can meet for coffee?"
or some such.
Puppy
I appreciate what you're saying Puppy, but I feel like ripping the bandaid off and getting it over with. I'm not Divorce Busting anymore, I'm moving on. Gut's not even in a knot, but yes, ready to put this behind me to get on with life.
If this is true,
You've finally detached.
This is where you can focus on your life,
make you happy again, reclaim that individuality and find that great person inside of you.
No more anger, no more resentment, just be happy.
I know it sounds tough, much harder to do than say it but when you get there, you will notice that not being attached to the outcome actually makes it easier for you to achieve whatever outcome you want to achieve.
Missed the first part of your post, Puppy. I won't commit to anything, but she is entitled to some stuff. I think I'll let her take the OLD dinnerware we recently replaced, and maybe the lumpy spare bed. :P
robx-
I'm getting there faster than I anticipated. Financial concerns are my biggest worry right now, not staying close to my wife. No real anger or resentment, just a general sadness of what was lost, but nowhere near as bad as just one week ago. Thinking about our early years together when we were so much in love especially hurts, but realizing that I can have that again with someone else helps it fade.
Um... will you be home tonight?
Aren't you busy GAL?
Your answer: "Yes, but I'm not sure when."
I'm with you broken. Enough is enough. Time to move on with our lives.
Missed the first part of your post, Puppy. I won't commit to anything, but she is entitled to some stuff. I think I'll let her take the OLD dinnerware we recently replaced, and maybe the lumpy spare bed. :P
LOL. Gotcha.
Seriously, just say "I hear you. I promise, I will give this all careful consideration, and we'll talk again soon."
Or something similarly non-committal.
Puppy
So W came over last night. (I was a little bit late getting home, legitimately busy at work.) She asked if she could sit by me on the couch, I said she should sit apart from me on the chair. She said she has a lease, but is hesitant to sign it because it seems too final. I told her it was her choice, not mine.
I told her I could no longer be her best friend after she lied to me, cheated on me, and walked out on me when I needed her most. I would no longer implicitly condone her actions by remaining her friend after she left me for another man. When she walked out of our marriage, she walked out on her best friend. I cancelled our "friend dates" for this month. This visibly shook her.
Surprisingly, she asked me if I really thought things could work out between us. I told her she knows my feelings on it, but I would no longer be the only one with my whole heart in it. If she wanted to try again I needed her full heart, open communication, and I needed to be able to trust her. I told her she needed to take the first step. She hesitated, then told me she thought she had to let me go. I accepted this calmly since it's what I expected from the start. But to know that she has doubts shook ME, though I don't think I showed it too much.
We talked about her moving out this weekend. I told her she could take anything that was "hers," but anything that was "ours" we needed to discuss. She doesn't even have a bed to sleep on, and she's moving into a dingy little apartment with a one year lease because it's the only thing she could find that allowed pets. We're sharing the dogs, which is okay because it will free me up to get out of town if I want to. We discussed coming up with a schedule for them.
She looked tired and sad, and I just wanted to hold her and kiss her, but I held myself back. I didn't touch her when she left. I wanted so badly to call her last night and I want to e-mail her right now telling her not to sign the lease, but that feels like pursuing her. If she chooses to come home it will have to be her decision.
Best case scenario, she calls today and asks to come back. I'll honestly have to think about it, and only with the above conditions. Worst case scenario, I got my self respect back last night. If she doesn't love me anymore at least she'll respect me.
Thoughts on e-mailing her asking her not to sign the lease for another week? My heart tells me to do it, my brain tells me not to.
Oh yeah, she told me she ended it with OM. I told her it was the right thing to do, not for us, but for her and for OM's children. I believe her, but before I let her back I'd ask to hear it from OM and OMW.
Surprisingly, she asked me if I really thought things could work out between us. I told her she knows my feelings on it, but I would no longer be the only one with my whole heart in it. If she wanted to try again I needed her full heart, open communication, and I needed to be able to trust her. I told her she needed to take the first step. She hesitated, then told me she thought she had to let me go. I accepted this calmly since it's what I expected from the start. But to know that she has doubts shook ME, though I don't think I showed it too much.
We talked about her moving out this weekend. I told her she could take anything that was "hers," but anything that was "ours" we needed to discuss. She doesn't even have a bed to sleep on, and she's moving into a dingy little apartment with a one year lease because it's the only thing she could find that allowed pets. We're sharing the dogs, which is okay because it will free me up to get out of town if I want to. We discussed coming up with a schedule for them.
She looked tired and sad, and I just wanted to hold her and kiss her, but I held myself back. I didn't touch her when she left. I wanted so badly to call her last night and I want to e-mail her right now telling her not to sign the lease, but that feels like pursuing her. If she chooses to come home it will have to be her decision.Best case scenario, she calls today and asks to come back. I'll honestly have to think about it, and only with the above conditions. Worst case scenario, I got my self respect back last night. If she doesn't love me anymore at least she'll respect me.
Thoughts on e-mailing her asking her not to sign the lease for another week? My heart tells me to do it, my brain tells me not to.
Your position has been stated. She knows the conditions and your decision on how you will be treated going forward. Don't undo it by pursuing or pressuring.
"Patience is the companion of wisdom." - St Augustine.
^ I agree...
You did very well by not soothing her last night-
I find it amusing that we both have the same timeline here- my W moves her things out this weekend as well.
Just when you think you're all alone going through this shirt by yourself...
Here for you man-
Thanks Coach & maynard - I know the right thing to do, and I won't contact her. It's just hard to not reach out to someone I love when I see them hurting. But it's 4th and goal, and I can't take a step back now.
Jeez maynard, like 9/11 wasn't a bad enough day already. Mine dropped the bomb on 1/27. Worst. Day. Ever. One of my best friends died on 1/17 too. Pretty crappy year, all told. Bad news seems to come in threes, what's next?
Go with your HEAD, Broken.
You handled yourself EXTREMELY well, under some obviously very difficult circumstances. Seriously, you need to tip a glass to yourself tonite, at a job-well-done. That was tough, for sure, and it's even tougher to "stuff" your natural instincts, and instead do what you know MUST be done, tactically.
btw, I don't believe her for a skinny minute that she broke things off with OM. She's either lying to you, or HE dumped HER (both very much "script"). I think you will find that their relationship will resurface again, after some socially-more-acceptable length of time.
Puppy
Oh yeah, she told me she ended it with OM. I told her it was the right thing to do, not for us, but for her and for OM's children. I believe her, but before I let her back I'd ask to hear it from OM and OMW.
Next time she says this to you (and she will, trust me), say something like "Well, I wish I could believe that. You've lied to me so much already."
Not sure why you believe her, but you did land a pretty good truth dart there about OM's children.
Puppy
To top it off, tomorrow is my B-day...so that will be interesting...
Seriously though- you're doing a REALLY good job and PUP's right you should be very pleased w/ how you're handling it.
I do believe her, but it's irrelevant. IF she were to come back I'd need concrete proof, but attacking her on it right now won't help anything. Talking to her last night I felt like I was talking to the person I knew for the first time in over a month, not the person she's trying to invent for herself. IF she comes back I'll ask for full disclosure, ask to hear it from all parties that it's over, and demand full access to all accounts. Despite the fact that I DO believe they haven't slept together, I'd also demand an STD test. But this is all moot right now. No reason to bring it up and throw a wrench into things.
Maynard - have a happy bday. I'll tip one back to you tomorrow night!
I do believe her, but it's irrelevant. IF she were to come back I'd need concrete proof, but attacking her on it right now won't help anything. Talking to her last night I felt like I was talking to the person I knew for the first time in over a month, not the person she's trying to invent for herself. IF she comes back I'll ask for full disclosure, ask to hear it from all parties that it's over, and demand full access to all accounts. Despite the fact that I DO believe they haven't slept together, I'd also demand an STD test. But this is all moot right now. No reason to bring it up and throw a wrench into things.
Broken,
Why are you so apt to believe her, when she's done thing to earn that trust? "Faith" is one thing; "naivete" is quite another.
I agree, it's no time to "attack" her, nor was I advocating it. I think you could leave off my last part, and just say an "I really wish I could believe that," and I there is a REASON why I think this is important.
It's imperative for a formerly cheating spouse to know that REBUILDING TRUST is going to be a necessary part of any reconciliation. I don't suggest you "play offense" on this subject, but I would certainly recommend that anytime SHE brings up either "I'm no longer with OM" or even the subject of her truthfulness, that you say something like "I wish I could believe that," or "It saddens me that I have a hard time believing that, considering." Or some such.
Giving them a "pass" on their deceit doesn't do you OR them any good, IMHO.
Puppy
Puppy,
This is the tone I will take if and when it comes to that. First she has to want to come back. Then we'll deal with trust. Believe me, if it comes to that I'll be back for advice! And as I said, if it never comes to that I am ready to move on with my life without her in it, faster than she'll believe possible!
Now I know what Tom Petty meant when he sang, "The waiting is the hardest part." Tired of being on pins and needles. So hard to not call my wife and tell her, "MAKE A DECISION!"
You are doing good. Don't cave in now!
Hijack alert!!!!
Sandi, could you come by and check on me please? Thanks!!! Need some reassurance!!!
She moved everything out this weekend and we're discussing splitting up "our" stuff. I let her take anything that was hers before we moved in together. Caved in over the weekend and asked her to reconsider one more time. Gave her a hug and quick peck before I left to meet friends, but I told her that she was also walking out on our friendship (again). This is brutal. If she asked to come back right this minute I honestly don't know what I'd say, even though I asked her to. It's just so hard to throw away 12 years of my life.
She moved everything out this weekend and we're discussing splitting up "our" stuff. I let her take anything that was hers before we moved in together. Caved in over the weekend and asked her to reconsider one more time. Gave her a hug and quick peck before I left to meet friends, but I told her that she was also walking out on our friendship (again). This is brutal. If she asked to come back right this minute I honestly don't know what I'd say, even though I asked her to. It's just so hard to throw away 12 years of my life.
Broken,
I know -- KNOW -- this is damned hard, but you only get one shot at these moments. This:
Gave her a hug and quick peck before I left to meet friends
pretty much negates this:
I told her that she was also walking out on our friendship (again).
Just like it is with them, it's not so much you SAY, it's what you DO!
Puppy
I agree. If my H would have hugged me and gave me those little pecks, I would have happily continued doing what I had been doing b/c to me,that was giving his consent. In other words, he might not be too happy about it but he would tolerate it.
She moved everything out this weekend and we're discussing splitting up "our" stuff. I let her take anything that was hers before we moved in together. Caved in over the weekend and asked her to reconsider one more time. Gave her a hug and quick peck before I left to meet friends, but I told her that she was also walking out on our friendship (again). This is brutal. If she asked to come back right this minute I honestly don't know what I'd say, even though I asked her to. It's just so hard to throw away 12 years of my life.
Remove her safety net. Quit letting her know that she can always come back if her fantasy doesn't pan out. This is the
Big Girl Panties stage of the game. She has made a choice, now allow her to feel the full impact of what leaving you means. It means the friendship is over. It means she solves all of her problems without your safety net, counsel, support, interest. She is on her way to being D so let her feel that now.
You are not throwing away 12 years, broken. SHE IS walking away from 12 years. Let her feel the chill of that. You keep kissing her, hugging her, talking friendship with her - geez - she's thinking "This is easier than I thought!"
Big Girl Panties.
Greek
I know, I know, I dropped the ball. But for a minute there she seemed like the person I knew, not the person she's invented for herself. I wanted to give my wife a kiss goodbye, because even though this new person is living 10 minutes away, I feel like the woman I loved is leaving forever. I told her this new person does nothing but hurt people who loved her, and I didn't like her. She let down her guard and I gave her a hug & kiss, and left. I'm done with this new person. If that's who she wants to be, I want nothing to do with her. I just wanted to say goodbye to the woman I loved. If nothing changes in a couple months I'M going to ask for a divorce.
Broken- our time line is the same, as we discussed. W moved out yesterday...I said the same thing about the friendship...I was fortunate, I did what you did except on Sat...W initiated the embrace- I tried to pull away but she kept it going...it was great- BUT I FAIED AT MY SITCH.
The move went well, there was nothing there between us- I was civil, but distant.
No worries, there's still more daylight
Agreed, no more. But I do feel that it's truly over, and I just wanted to hold my wife one last time.
Did you at least do something fun for your birthday, Maynard? I did a silent toast to you Saturday night.
thanks- played golf and had dinner w/ my friend who shares the same b-day.
It was great- EXCEPT- I saw W a few hours before dinner.
This is when I hugged her- same thing really, one last embrace kind of thing...wasted opportunity...she's not W anymore so I was hugging a body.
At least she initiated...but still a major backslide for me
At least it's warm enough to play golf wherever you're at! Our links won't open for another couple months yet. Hopefully can at least hit the driving range soon.
All I can tell you is that every day gets a little easier. I didn't start healing until she actually left the house. I hadn't talked to anyone except my parents and a couple close friends who aren't close to her. After she left I told EVERYONE and came on this board. It's funny to look back at some early posts like, "Why would you want her in your life?" I completely ignored those because I was desperate and frantic to keep her. Now I go back and read those and ask myself, "Why WOULD I want her in my life? If she doesn't love me for who I am, then I'll go find someone who will."
Keep the faith Maynard. If things can work out with your wife, cool. If not, know that there's more fish in the sea. Heck, I've got old college buddies coming up to my "bachelor pad" in April!
Remove her safety net. Quit letting her know that she can always come back if her fantasy doesn't pan out. This is the Big Girl Panties stage of the game. She has made a choice, now allow her to feel the full impact of what leaving you means. It means the friendship is over. It means she solves all of her problems without your safety net, counsel, support, interest. She is on her way to being D so let her feel that now.
You are not throwing away 12 years, broken. SHE IS walking away from 12 years. Let her feel the chill of that. You keep kissing her, hugging her, talking friendship with her - geez - she's thinking "This is easier than I thought!"
Big Girl Panties.
Greek
Thanks Greek!
I really needed to see this (even if on someone else's thread). In my case it is 24 years of M she is walking away from! This is why I gave her the settlement check already and got my credit cards back. As far as I am concerned we are already divorced and she can have the next three months to live that life before it becomes final and see if she likes it. I feel so good that I have been able to detach and drop the rope. I hope I can continue to do that and keep up my PMA. Having fun doing things with other people and looking forward to going out with friends this coming Friday including a new lady friend who I only met a few weeks ago!
Feel free to read and comment on my sitch and send Coach over too! Thanks!
(Sorry to hijack)
Ken
Sorry jasper, meant to reply to you, not maynard. Confusing my posters on this thread.
actually had to change some stuff if you follow me...
hope it warms up for you soon
Glad to hear about the detaching- I know I need to be cleansed again after having seen W. That will be 3 or so days I'm guessing.
But for a minute there she seemed like the person I knew, not the person she's invented for herself.
And, I think this is what may be so hard for the LBH....when he sees that girl he fell in love with. When she's acting like the stranger you wonder about, it is easier (in ways) to let go, but those few moments that you get a glimpse of the real person, your heart wants to believe she's back.
I've read some LBH's say that gave their W a kiss b/c that is what he "wanted" to do so he did it. That is a man fooling himself and not DBing.
I just wanted to say goodbye to the woman I loved.
I'm so sorry. There
are a few of us that do come back.
Getting a life, detaching, moving on. I haven't seen my wife since Saturday, and I don't really care to. She's living in a crappy apartment on an airbed. I hope she enjoys her new fantasy world.
She texted me today because she has the flu and wanted to come hang out with the dogs on the couch. I said fine, and she replied she'd try to be out of the house by the time I got off work. All I really felt was anger. My first thought was that she was going to ask to stay the night, and I immediately called a couple friends to see if they'd help me move some furniture to her apartment. I no longer want her in the house! I've realized that this new person she's invented for herself is a person I don't know, I'll never trust, and I don't really like. All she does is hurt people. If she asked me to come home for another chance right now I'd tell her no. She's become totally unappealing to me as a lover and a friend.
That said, I still miss the little things. I miss her family. I miss talking to someone after work. I miss getting a hug. I miss sex! When we talked a couple weeks ago we decided to separate, not divorce. Now I want a divorce so I can find someone who will accept me for who I am, and that I can trust to never hurt me like my wife did.
I've realized that this new person she's invented for herself is a person I don't know, I'll never trust, and I don't really like. All she does is hurt people. If she asked me to come home for another chance right now I'd tell her no. She's become totally unappealing to me as a lover and a friend.
That said, I still miss the little things. I miss talking to someone after work. I miss getting a hug. I miss sex! Now I want a divorce so I can find someone who will accept me for who I am, and that I can trust to never hurt me like my wife did. [/quote]
I could have written this myself!
St Patty's Day sucks. WAW is Irish, and we always threw a big party for all our friends. I miss all the little things we used to share. Still, moving on emotionally. Every time I think of her now I just get angry. Desire for revenge eats me up when I let it.
So far the steps seem to be anger (after the bomb), panic (trying to save marriage), desperation (don't want to be alone after 12 years), more anger (she broke her vows!), odd sense of relief (after she moved out), depression (this is all my fault), exposure (embraced the suck), healing (friends have been GREAT), acceptance (she's not coming back), revelation (this is NOT all my fault), moving on (GAL/going dark).
I still feel a dull feeling of loss, and moments of intense anger, but I feel more like myself than I have in years. Hanging out more with friends, and really talking to people more than I have in a long time. My mom says she feels like we've really talked more in the last month than in the last several years. Wife says she "lost herself" in the marriage. I realized I did too, and I'm remembering the person I used to be. My lust for life is returning. I miss being in a relationship, but I don't necessarily miss it with her.
My lust for life is returning.
So put together a St Patricks day bash. There is comfort in tradition.
My lust for life is returning.
So put together a St Patricks day bash. There is comfort in tradition.
Thought about it, almost kept it scheduled for last weekend. But it absolutely trashes the house, and I don't want to clean it up by myself right now! I used to work at a bar in town, and it's where I USED to celebrate every St Pat's. It's where all my friends will be (it's kinda' my Cheers - where everybody knows your name). I'm going there!
E-mailed the wife, told her she could take the furniture she wanted (total under $1,000, no biggie, and much of it was hers before we moved in together a decade ago). Also mentioned that the bank accounts were seperated, and she could stay on my health insurance "for now" if she wanted to reimburse me the $240 per month it costs me. Ain't I just a sweetheart?
She's moving furniture out this weekend. Somehow just hit me what that means.
She's moving furniture out this weekend. Somehow just hit me what that means.
You now have room for the pool/ping-pong table.
Your new drum set.
Poker Table.
Weight rack.
Three Stooges Posters
Beer Fridge
Another opportunity for B2010.
Instead of thinking about how empty it seems, focus on how you want to make it look like your "man cave"......whatever style that may be.
Broken keeping her on health insurance until she gets her own coverage is the right thing to do. Giving her a deadline to get her own or pay you for that coverage is the right thing to do.
This is all part of the high road path. Keep to it. Choices made out of bitterness should be tossed away. High road and tough love.
You should also do this with the car insurance. And just keep her on the life insurance but do not mention it. Only time you would take her off is if you were going to add someone else.
Chatterbug,
That's what I figured with the life insurance. Who else am I going to name beneficiary, my dogs?
I don't always feel like taking the high road right now, though. I'm getting frustrated with her wanting to be free of me at the speed of light, but remain my BFF. She keeps e-mailing me jokes, but this week has tapered off. I think she's finally taken the hint that after she walked out on me she walked out on our friendship. When I think of her now I just get angry. The sadness has receded to a dull ache. Mostly I feel happy, and free, and more like myself than I have in years. I just want to make this a clean break. I'm thinking of telling her I want to divorce immediately instead of dragging it out and being separated. It's hard not to be resentful and spiteful toward her for wasting 12 years of my life to end up with nothing.
I understand exactly what your feeling. That is why the high road is so important. Allows you to keep those 12 years for what they really where. Time spent with a woman you loved. They can only attack for so long before they will stop. That is why you stay dark on her... Its for you.... Not her. And you stay dark until you know you can talk to her and not be angry or bitter. Just sad and disappointed at the outcome. And those feelings fade again. Remember life is long. You have common grounds. Friends , family that love you both... So stay to the high road. In the long run it is the easier path. No regrets and pain frontloaded. Vs... regrets and bitterness and people who you cannot look in the eye because you did not follow the high road.
Broken keeping her on health insurance until she gets her own coverage is the right thing to do. Giving her a deadline to get her own or pay you for that coverage is the right thing to do.
This is all part of the high road path. Keep to it. Choices made out of bitterness should be tossed away. High road and tough love.
You should also do this with the car insurance. And just keep her on the life insurance but do not mention it. Only time you would take her off is if you were going to add someone else.
Great advice -- I agree.
Puppy
broken = getting fixed (a little bit, day by day)
Well, the wife's been gone for over three weeks, but is still coming almost over every day to move stuff out and hasn't moved any of the big stuff yet. I have not been at the house whenever she's there - still don't want to watch her dismantle our life together.
I've given up on her coming back, and I don't know if I'd want to be with this new person she's become anyway. I'm feeling like I'm ready to move on with my life. I want to be free to explore other relationships, perhaps sooner than later. My wife's vows obviously didn't mean anything to her, but they meant everything to me. I won't break them as long as I have a marriage, if only on paper.
Any advice on asking her for a divorce when I'm expecting her to pay for it since she was the one who was unfaithful and moved out? I talked to a friend who went through a divorce recently, and he handled it through the courts without attorneys, since it was relatively amicable like mine. They spent under $1,000 and only had to go to 1/2 hour mediation.
Should I be moving this over to another topic section?
LBS means left behind spouse not Left Behind Storage Facility.
Perhaps she needs to figure out why she needs to contact you daily!!!!
If you want to divorce. File. If you want to heal then take your time and let her file. You are in no position to start any new relationships.
And believe me. With your feelings so super charged you will think a smile from some one means they love you. We have all been there. Go out on a date with someone and you are thinking that you want to spend the rest of your life with them. These are items you need to work through. Love is a choice. It is shown by actions.
If I was you I would stay here still. The roller-coaster is in effect. But each hill gets shorter. You need to work on creating scars out of your wounds. Heal. And keep to the high road.
I would really recommend that you take some time to help some others on this site. It will help you understand what your experiencing. And it will help you heal.
I have no doubt that you will heal. You will survive and thrive.
When I read your very first post I knew that. As did others. So we were drawn to you.
In time your advice to others will be greatly appreciated for you have knowledge , grace and wisdom.
Take care.
She's been sick and out of town. I'm willing to be patient, but not for much longer. I just want to rip the bandaid off and be done with it, I can't keep dragging out the separation. And she's not really contacting me daily, just texting me to let me know when she'll be in the house so I don't have to be there. It'll end soon.
I still don't know about the divorce. I don't want to rush into anything I'll regret, but I know EXACTLY what you mean about the supercharged emotions. Every smile, every hug, every "call me if you need to talk" feels like something more. Trying to keep my emotions in check as much as possible, but more than anything I've just come to realize that there's more fish in the sea, and there will be a woman who I can again love and trust, sooner or later.
I have gone on a couple other threads. Most advice I've given was something like, "Listen to Greek, I wish I'd been on this site earlier," or "Listen to Coach, he is wise." Other than that I've just offered advice on healing.
I have no doubt that you will heal. You will survive and thrive.
When I read your very first post I knew that. As did others. So we were drawn to you.
And thank you for that.
I still don't know about the divorce. I don't want to rush into anything I'll regret, but I know EXACTLY what you mean about the supercharged emotions. Every smile, every hug, every "call me if you need to talk" feels like something more. Trying to keep my emotions in check as much as possible, but more than anything I've just come to realize that there's more fish in the sea, and there will be a woman who I can again love and trust, sooner or later.
Ok, so you are getting there. Detaching in your head. The emotions will follow. THEN, waiting won't seem as difficult. Right now, you are in hurry to get out of this horrible situation and D is the only direction available to you, other than waiting to see what happens. I visualize it (this sucky limbo) as a car wash. I have had to take my hands off the wheel, put the car in neutral, foot off the gas and the brake, and focus on the light at the end of the tunnel. Letting go of the control is very hard, but i know if I grab the wheel, or gas/brake, it will only slow things down and cause problems. So will getting out of the car before it is over. I do not want to wonder the rest of my life, what might have been.
You can D anytime. It won't end the pain you are in. It won't change the healing work you have to do. The rollercoaster Will slow down! No Contact with her will help that.
Digging through some stuff last night, and happened upon the first gift my wife ever gave me when we first started dating. Now those wonderful times are all I can think about, all day long. This is soul crushing sometimes. If this is a roller coaster, today I'm at the bottom.
Tomorrow we're having a talk about the house, dogs, etc. I feel like showing her the gift and asking her if she remembers it, and tell her this doesn't have to be the end - we can still rewrite it, but if she truly wants to leave me that I want a divorce filed within 30 days. I know this is pressuring and putting a deadline on things won't help, but at worst I can get closure to move on with my life. I plan on sleeping on it and looking at things with a clearer head tomorrow (I didn't sleep well last night).
I feel like showing her the gift and asking her if she remembers it, and tell her this doesn't have to be the end
Bad idea.
I talked to the wife on the phone for the first time in about three weeks. She apologized for "ruining everything and throwing it all away." I told her we could have worked everything out if she hadn't been so wrapped up in OM.
We talked about divorce, but she also asked if I wanted to try dating. Don't know how I feel about that. I'm about ready to move on, and she pulls this? I told her I couldn't date someone who I'm married to, especially if their heart wasn't in it. She asked if I wanted to be separated but not divorced. This seems like a worst case scenario, still bound to her but not with her.
We're talking again face-to-face next week. I really don't even know what I want at this point.
Wife is filing for divorce. I am free.
Thanks to everyone on this board for your support.
Hey broken,
Sorry to hear this news. Are you still in contact with her?
Do something good for yourself today.
Hey broken,
Sorry to hear this news. Are you still in contact with her?
Do something good for yourself today.
Barely. We talked face-to-face last night for the first time in a month. It's a mutual decision, her heart's not in it and I could never trust her to not be looking over my shoulder for something better. I'm ready to move on.
Having lunch with an old friend today, then going to watch baseball tonight!
Sounds lke you're going to have a fun time later
I desperately want her back. We've been together for 12 years, married for 7. It's never been a perfect relationship, but she's my best friend and I love her with all my heart.
Wife is filing for divorce. I am free.
Wow, one whole month. Is that all the fight you have in you, Broken? If so, DBing probably wasn't for you.
Puppy
Maybe not Puppy, but I feel more like myself today than I have in years. I'm not walking on eggshells anymore, and I feel like I have the freedom to be with someone else who won't put up a wall around herself. She told me last night that she's still "friends" with OM. How could I ever trust her again? And knowing that her heart isn't in it... I'd rather be with someone who can love me unconditionally with her whold heart.
I get that, and you're certainly justified. I just don't understand why you wouldn't try some of the "harder stance" things we were trying to implore you to try, because you "didn't want to push her away," but you're willing to just let her divorce you.
That makes no sense to me. If it's me, if I'm gonna go down, I'd rather go down swinging.
Puppy
I feel comfortable that I did everything I could to save it. But ultimately what it comes down to is I'm happy today. I'm happy to not have it hanging over my head indefinitely.