Hey guys, thought I would start a new thread since my other one was getting a bit long and the last one did not seem all that appropriate anymore.
At this point, I see two, and only two, options. Either W and I work on the M or we set about taking it apart. W has told me she doesn't want to work on the M, so that leaves one option.
I remain open to working on the M, but realize that has to be a JOINT decision. And one SHE must choose herself.
I will begin interviewing mediators and have that ready to go in January. It's not what I want, but there is no other choice or option available to me.
gima,
my thoughts and prayers are with you. I really appreciate your advice and input, and I am a better man because of it.
Again, and you already know this, you can only take care of yourself, and let the rest just flow. If she chooses to not work through things, that is her loss. You are a good man.
gima,
my thoughts and prayers are with you. I really appreciate your advice and input, and I am a better man because of it.
Again, and you already know this, you can only take care of yourself, and let the rest just flow. If she chooses to not work through things, that is her loss. You are a good man.
Thanks man. You have some great people giving you some good advice (Coach, Greek, Puppy, and others). As painful as this must be to you right now, you will make it through this and be much stronger than you ever thought you could be.
Keep posting. It really helps.
GIMA,
Just driving by to wish you well, brother. The road ahead is obscure, so only look at the next few feet at a time as you move on.
Thoughts and prayers for you.
GIMA,
Just driving by to wish you well, brother. The road ahead is obscure, so only look at the next few feet at a time as you move on.
Thoughts and prayers for you.
Thanks man. I may be starting a thread over in one of the D forums - I was reading yours earlier this am. Which of the two do you recommend since I am still legally M'd?
Thanks SG. Still open to reconciliation, but I just won't wait for it any longer.
I feel the same way, GIMA. I think I would be open to reconciliation (after a lot of MC), but I've been conducting my life like I will be D soon. My H has his own apartment, so I would be crazy not to start living my own life. I have days when I miss him, but some days I feel freer than I have in years. I'm excited about the possibilities in my future.
I am in Surviving the Big D, because that's where I am currently, trying to survive..
For myself, thought that was the best place to reside for the moment.
Our sitch's are close, so I'd suggest there, if you think that's where you are currently..
I feel the same way, GIMA. I think I would be open to reconciliation (after a lot of MC), but I've been conducting my life like I will be D soon. My H has his own apartment, so I would be crazy not to start living my own life. I have days when I miss him, but some days I feel freer than I have in years. I'm excited about the possibilities in my future.
I know what you mean. There is still some sadness, but there are exciting things in my new life. And freedom I gave up, not in a good way, to W.
We are still living in the same house, and that makes it challenging some times. But, I can handle it.
I can imagine it must be awful to have to coexist with a WAS, but you can handle it.
I think when we focus on the exciting things ahead, it helps take away some of the sadness. I've got a laundry list of things I plan to do in my new life.
S5 always asked for a brother. I used to tell him he was the baby, and he would never have a brother. Now I think...who knows, he might end up with a step brother. lol
I can imagine it must be awful to have to coexist with a WAS, but you can handle it.
I think when we focus on the exciting things ahead, it helps take away some of the sadness. I've got a laundry list of things I plan to do in my new life.
S5 always asked for a brother. I used to tell him he was the baby, and he would never have a brother. Now I think...who knows, he might end up with a step brother. lol
All of my sib's are either steps or half sibs. And I'm close with all of them. Step or half, they ARE my siblings.
GIMA, I will visit you in your new thread.
I am glad you've decided to take a stance, even if it's not the one you originally wanted.
GIMA,
Happy to hear you are rising above the miserable place of limbo land. Great attitude & best of luck.
Good luck dude, your attitude sounds like a true DBer. I am in the same place as you and recently fully embraced the As If concept.
It does give you peace and the emotions are in check. I use daily affirmations for 5 minutes on the car ride to work and back. Something so simple makes a big difference in your mind set.
Remember that she is in LIMBO, too. So your efforts to free the R from this holding pattern is a)loving to yourself b)loving to her c)leadership. You'll have to have a stout heart and stiff upper lip ~ pretend you're British! Haha!
Cheers ~
Greek
Remember that she is in LIMBO, too. So your efforts to free the R from this holding pattern is a)loving to yourself b)loving to her c)leadership. You'll have to have a stout heart and stiff upper lip ~ pretend you're British! Haha!
Cheers ~
Greek
"Minding the pedestrians Hyacinth.."
Thanks Greek. The part I am having a bit of trouble with is being loving to her. What does that mean, other than treat her with respect and compassion? Is it forging ahead with splitting this and D while doing it in a way that is not motivated by anger?
"Minding the pedestrians Hyacinth.."
"Richaaarrrrrdd!"
Thanks Greek. The part I am having a bit of trouble with is being loving to her.
Being 'loving' right now means 'do everything you choose to do out of love.' It doesn't mean being a doormat or going out of your way or being above and beyond the call of duty. No! It means that you do nothing out of spite. You are not punitive. You see her as another soul on this planet whom you respect for that reason (basic human dignity). And you make all of your decisions out of love for yourself, your children and W. You'll look back on these days when you are an old, retired GIMA. You'll want to be proud of the man your remember.
Greek
"Sgt. Peacock Greek, are you free?"
Thanks Greek. I think I understand a little better now. How does this square with letting her feel the reality of her decisions? I suppose that is allowing those consequences, but not as a result of wanting to hurt her (I don't want to hurt her) or exact revenge (again, I don't want that either)?
"Sgt. Peacock Greek, are you free?"
"And I am UNANIMOUS in that!"
I suppose that is allowing those consequences, but not as a result of wanting to hurt her
Spot on, chap.
Greek
"Sgt. Peacock Greek, are you free?"
"And I am UNANIMOUS in that!"
I suppose that is allowing those consequences, but not as a result of wanting to hurt her
Spot on, chap.
Greek
"No, No, No, No, No, No, No, No...Yes."
You get that one too?
"No, No, No, No, No, No, No, No...Yes."
You get that one too?
CLASSIC!
"No, No, No, No, No, No, No, No...Yes."
You get that one too?
CLASSIC!
Probably my favorite one of them all. I've actually been where they filmed that. And it looks EXACTLY like it does on TV...Just a lot smaller. I saw the Church and everything - it really is a Church.
HA!
All these Britcom quotes are cracking me up today! Thanks for the dose of humor.
Hi GIMA, congrats on choosing to move forward. You can only be stagnant for so long before the pond scum threatens to take over. Im climbing out of/through some scum myself right now.
Greek has been spot on with all she has said- now the hard part comes- implementing it!
Good luck.
You can only be stagnant for so long before the pond scum threatens to take over.
That is so good!
You can only be stagnant for so long before the pond scum threatens to take over.
That is so good!
People say the cream always rises to the top, so does scum.
Yes, that's a original.
You can only be stagnant for so long before the pond scum threatens to take over.
That is so good!
People say the cream always rises to the top, so does scum.
Yes, that's a original.
Can I keep that one?
There is still some sadness, but there are exciting things in my new life. And freedom I gave up, not in a good way, to W
One thing I thought I was waiting for was to not want to be with W anymore, and then I thought I would be ready to move on without her. My IC told me today that us LBSs may never totally get to that point, but we get to the point where we respect and love ourselves enough where we realize it is the only choice, and that there are too many 'only if' statements associated with the other path (staying with WAW who is content to be in limbo).
Stay strong GIMA - I am right with you if not a half-step behind. I am updating the D papers I filled out before and will file in conjunction with setting up mediation most likely some time in January.
My response to checking up on your new thread:
- if you wanted to, you could move to "separated - now what" forum until you are actually divorcing...that's actually where I guess I should be...
- Allowing her the chance to experience the consequences of her own choices IS LOVING HER, as opposed to not being codependant, where she can blame her feelings on you. You are giving her back her life, her experiences, her emotions, without clouding them with yours. That is love. And detachment (see - I've learned a lot from you!).
Pretty good day for me. S9 had his first basketball game. Got to the gym, W sits on small set of bleachers with D6. I stand about 5 feet from her. After about 10 minutes, W asks if I want to sit down and begins moving over so I can sit next to her. "No, I'm good." About 30 minutes later, I sat with D6 on the row in front of W. Played and laughed a lot with D6.
After lunch, I went out and did some shopping for the kids. In the past, I let W pick things out for them and would occasionally get something for them. This year, I will buy presents for the kids. I had a great time picking things out for them. Things they have told me they wanted and that I knew W had not bought for them. Wrapped up the presents and labelled them from "Santa." Taking the high road here. I know who bought these presents for them (and by the marginal wrapping of them anyone will know) and that's good enough for me.
We were supposed to go to my borothers and SIL's for present exchange and dinner tomorrow. This is my SIL who had the discussion with W last week when W said she wasn't going to MC for our relationship. W told me she wasn't going b/c SIL told W W was not welcome in SIL's home - uh, no, that's not true.
I wrestled with what I should do (and W assumed I was going with the kids). I decided not to go solely b/c the kids don't know we are splitting. A gathering like this is something more serious than just a movie or game. If W doesn't go, S9 will be EXTREMELY suspicious. I don't want to risk him being flipped out during what will be our last Christmas together.
Anyway, today, W asks what time "we" (the kids and I) will be leaving for my brother's tomorrow. I tell her we aren't going. She seems perplexed.
Earleir in the day, she also stated, somewhat snidely, "I guess I won't buy anything more for the kids since I don't know what you bought them today." I responded very calmly that I was happy to tell her what I got them, just not while they are in hearing distance. "Oh, ok."
Later, I sent W an email (she's running errands) to tell her what I got the kids and that I labelled all the gifts from "Santa."
I was thinking today how I had thought this Christmas would be a sad one since it will be our last together. But, I'm not sad. I will have a great time with the kids, but there is a part of me that is ready to get this holiday season over so we can move on with our lives.
I feel a new strength, confidence, and peace. I have no attraction to my W, but I'm not angry with her. I feel very in control. Right now, I am more excited about what life has in store for me in the future than I feel I will miss W. It's actually difficult for me to see myself M'd to the woman my W has become.
That's a tough one with the SIL. If you are not going to go then take the kids to a movie or something else simple and fun, drive around and look at lights?
The kids are more aware then you realise. You know how much I told you that you are being watched, well your kids are part of who is watching you. They are more aware then you might think. What was your experience as a boy with home strife?
Hey Coach. I grew up with LOTS of strife. My parents fought constantly (and loudly) in front of us. NOT what I have ever done (we didn't fight much at all).
Hey GIMA,
I just wanted to stop by and say hey.
I fully understand your feelings towards your W...I have the same ones for my W as well. I don't like the person my W has become either. The only difference is that anger/resentment has been peppering my mind of late. I try to keep away from these emotions for the sake of my kids, but it's tough.
I see limboland ending for the both of us very shortly.
-LFH
Hi GIMA - I heard the Limbo Train is leaving the station soon, and I think I'll be needing a one-way ticket, too.
You sound really good. Best wishes for the holidays. Bittersweet, but oddly a relief, no? Peace.
Goldey
GIMA, I think we've all seen this coming, but you seem to be in a good place with yourself.....and life. I hope you won't leave us for a while.....cause I'm selfish and like your company. You have kind words for people and I think you are helpful to others.
I hope you know you have a special place in my heart and I pray for your happiness. I hope you have a Merry Christmas and that your new year will be a great one.
Sandi
Ditto what Sandi said = and I'm really glad to see you feeling at peace, and strong, and enjoying your children.
Hi GIMA - I heard the Limbo Train is leaving the station soon, and I think I'll be needing a one-way ticket, too.
You sound really good. Best wishes for the holidays. Bittersweet, but oddly a relief, no? Peace.
Goldey
There's room on the train. I might even let you drive!
GIMA, I think we've all seen this coming, but you seem to be in a good place with yourself.....and life. I hope you won't leave us for a while.....cause I'm selfish and like your company. You have kind words for people and I think you are helpful to others.
I hope you know you have a special place in my heart and I pray for your happiness. I hope you have a Merry Christmas and that your new year will be a great one.
Sandi
Thanks Sandi. I really appreciate the time you have taken with me. Your perspective is priceless.
I'm not going anywhere. And regardless what happens with my M, I plan on sticking around here. I have taken so much, I am too much in debt to everyone here to go silent. So, I promise not to leave here if you promise to stick around too.
I had hoped one day to be in a place with my M that my W might be one of the contributors here in the context of how we were able to save our M, but that simply doesn't appear to be what the future holds for me. I have, however, gained the strength here to make it through whatever the future holds.
I know you guys probably saw where I would end up WAY before me. And, I probably needed this time to reach that realization and build my strength for the next step.
Keep praying for all of us here - I do and will continue to do so.
Technology is a funny thing (and amazing). So many of us here helping each other - total strangers who would, but for the internet - have never crossed paths. Strange to be able to say I feel closer to many of the people here than I do to many of the "friends" I have in the "real world."
I hope you have a wonderful Christmas too. And I hope we all have a better New Year.
Long day. Nothing significant happened, and maybe that's why it seemed long.
Been dealing with a lot of resentment towards W. And with her parents coming in on Wednesday, that concerns me.
I truly don't want to feel this way. But I keep struggling with the fact she simply refuses to even try to work on the M. I know this is out of my control. It just seems she has nothing to lose (neither of us do) and so much to lose by not trying. Out of my hands, but troubling.
Quite simply, I have not felt this distant from W since I met her.
I truly don't want to feel this way. But I keep struggling with the fact she simply refuses to even try to work on the M.
Of course you don't want to feel this way. This is but one of the consequences she has visited upon you. Unfortunately, this is not a consequence that will capture HER attention. It will be the consequences that impact HER which will make the difference if there is to be one.
Don't let her civility fool you. Almost anyone can be civil. Think of standing in line at the post office. You don't want to be in that line. You pay more taxes (you assume) than the guy in front of you. They should have at least one more clerk for customer service. Your packages are heavy. You have 9 other places to be. And yet...you are civil, make small talk, at least smile. That's what your W is doing.
No consequences...no stir.
Greek
Hi GIMA bro, been some time since I dropped by although I was always reading ...
Perhaps it's just that right now, your paths are indeed diverging, there's different visions, priorities, and from where you stand, her path is gonna take her further away. Same might go for her too.
And you're moving on, which is a good thing. Who knows what the future might hold eh?
A blessed Christmas and a very happy 2010 to you!
Thanks Greek. I will handle this week with her parents coming in. Then move forward with taking apart this M
I will keep what you said in mind.
Thanks Deep. I think she has been gone a while. Probably more I'm finally moving on than her diverging from me. Nut I get what you say.
Of course you're going to feel resentment and a lot of other uncomfortable feelings toward W. You've been "giving it your all" and she's giving nothing. Marital vows. Children. All that stuff. It's hard to take. Be patient with YOURSELF now (not her anymore).
And this is I think where the detachment comes in as the hardest lesson of all - to close yourself off from her choices and to truly embrace only your own. If she choses to walk, then all you can do is take care of yourself, and all the feelings that will and do come up.
Thanks Hope.
I have been following your sitch but not posting much. Hang in there, and keep those expectations in check, ok?
Just got an email from W listing all the presents she bought for my family. She has always done this in the past. She "just wanted me to know." I responded simply with "Thanks."
I do appreciate her doing this but it was unnecessary given where we are headed.
Possibly more evidence that she does not see many things changing after we D? I don't know. Unfortunately, that is simply NOT going to be the case.
I am starting to look for houses online, as well as what it will cost me for furniture/appliances when the time comes. We will need to sell the house to free up the purchase of another one, and, like everywhere else, the real estate market is not good here.
[quote=givingitmyallTechnology is a funny thing (and amazing). So many of us here helping each other - total strangers who would, but for the internet - have never crossed paths. Strange to be able to say I feel closer to many of the people here than I do to many of the "friends" I have in the "real world."[/quote]
Completely Agree.
Thanks All!
FWIW - I still buy and ship presents to my former MIL, and 2 SIL's. Why? Because they are still my son's family and they had nothing to do with the D. I still love them and always will so it's my own choice to do this for them from my son and I. Yes, things will change, but you can choose how you decide to handle her family and she will choose to do what she wants for yours.
Simple? No. This is a complicated process. The key here is to do what feels right to you regarding the IL's.
FWIW - I still buy and ship presents to my former MIL, and 2 SIL's. Why? Because they are still my son's family and they had nothing to do with the D. I still love them and always will so it's my own choice to do this for them from my son and I. Yes, things will change, but you can choose how you decide to handle her family and she will choose to do what she wants for yours.
Simple? No. This is a complicated process. The key here is to do what feels right to you regarding the IL's.
I agree it is her choice to do what she wants with my family. But, here's the rub, SHE is leaving me, not the other way around. If I were leaving her, then I would not shop for HER family, unless I thought I was SUPPOSED to or I felt guilty to some extent.
Just making the point that while she professes to want D (new life), she does not appear to want to sever ties with my family.
Appearances GIMA, appearances. Like you've said before, that is most important to her.
She very well may keep doing this for years so she doesn't look like the 'bad guy'.
Appearances GIMA, appearances. Like you've said before, that is most important to her.
She very well may keep doing this for years so she doesn't look like the 'bad guy'.
Newton's First Law of Motion:
I. Every object in a state of uniform motion tends to remain in that state of motion unless an external force is applied to it.
Use the Force. Once she is knocked off center (THE BOMB) then let's watch what happens.
Appearances GIMA, appearances. Like you've said before, that is most important to her.
She very well may keep doing this for years so she doesn't look like the 'bad guy'.
Newton's First Law of Motion:
I. Every object in a state of uniform motion tends to remain in that state of motion unless an external force is applied to it.
Use the Force. Once she is knocked off center (THE BOMB) then let's watch what happens.
Mishka and Coach,
I hear you. But, esp. Coach, there is nothing to do until after the Holidays, except make my plans to carry that out. After teh Holidays, we have a discussion about, ok, let,s get moving on this D you want.
Am I missing something? Of course, if the opportunity presents itself before then, I will be honest with her as to what we will be doing (I have already told her this a couple of weeks back).
GIMA,
Once you make the decision, it will make you feel better. Limbo is a horrible existence. Found out I am not as strong as I thought in being able to handle it for a year(my original goal) I cut the cord at 8 months. I am in same position as you living at home with wife and 3 sons. My sons are quite astute as to what is going on. My middle son said to my w, why don't you hug daddy anymore. My oldest has become the peace officer anytime my w and I have a disagreement. We stopped the fighting for the most part in the house. I somewhat choose to not look her in the eye or carry on much conversation with her. Just having fun with my sons. Looking at her just makes me more mad as to what she has done or will do to my sons and myself. Hurting everyone around her so she can fulfill her destiny....
We both retained attorneys and are going through the process. I did it first because she stepped way over my boundary line and enough is enough. Her parents called yesterday and really didn't get why I wasn't coming for christmas eve. I don't think she has told them it is really done yet. When I don't show, everyone will get that it is done.
She did try telling some people in her family that I have a girlfriend, which her family told me(they all think she is crazy). I told her that was a nice try in making you look like the good guy, but I don't have one and wouldn't do that while I am married to you. Unlike her, I took our vows seriously.
Anyway, I would tell you that making that first move is like that shot over the bow. I started the ball rolling and it is rolling fast...
She will as I am sure your wife will understand someday what they did was wrong. I do have a letter written already to hand her the day the divorce is final. There is so many things I have wanted to say how she treated me through this process. However, fighting now only hurts the kids and would make her want to take everything she can from me. Right now, I am hoping the guilt factor is working for me and I wont have to pay alimony in addition to my child support....
GIMA...I am impressed with your resolve and confidence. It seems like your sitch is pretty similar to mine, although there could be an OP involved in my story but I'm not sure if that is an issue with you. Much of what you said resonates quite a bit with me...I am growing very resentful of the constant cold shoulder treatment and absolutely HATE being married to the person she has become. I honestly believe that if I wasn't still so physically attracted to her that I would have been the WAS myself!
As you saw in my thread (and thanks for your input!), my "limboland" is just entering the 4th month and since W has been traveling so much, I wonder if I'm being too impatient and not giving DB'ing enough time since we've been apart so frequently since the bomb.
Much of what you said resonates quite a bit with me...I am growing very resentful of the constant cold shoulder treatment and absolutely HATE being married to the person she has become. I honestly believe that if I wasn't still so physically attracted to her that I would have been the WAS myself!
Man, there are sooooo many beautiful (and NICE too) women out there who would kill to get a crack at you. Go work out at a gym and just watch. I get where you are coming from and I too felt that way once upon a time. But as her lack of concern for my well being grows, the less and less I am attracted to her.
As you saw in my thread (and thanks for your input!), my "limboland" is just entering the 4th month and since W has been traveling so much, I wonder if I'm being too impatient and not giving DB'ing enough time since we've been apart so frequently since the bomb.
Question is what has SHE done to work on the M at all? Four months IS long enough for her to decide to work on the M. And I mean WORK on the M, not some half a$$ed I won't contact him that much.
I was in limbo for 6 months before getting my fill. Do I KNOW, FOR SURE, I am doing the right thing? No, of course not. But, do I think it's the RIGHT thing to do, YES.
Do you really think if she is willing to work on the M that you pushing is what will cause her to run? Sorry, but if she's gone, she's gone man. Only way to see is to lead.
Go back to my last thread "Gotta Keep Trying 2" and read the last couple of weeks posts. Coach and Greek gave me some great advice.
Found out this am the sleeping arrangements and who is actually coming for Christmas. In-laws are staying at a hotel - always stayed here before, but, there's nowhere for them to sleep given the circumstances. If I were them, can't say I would want to stay at our house either.
So on Christmas day, it will be W, kids, me, W's parents, W's step-brother and his GF. Oh, and my two dogs! I will make the best of it. Strength and honor.
GIMA: just wanted to let you know I'm praying for you and your family. Have a great Christmas for your kids
GIMA: just wanted to let you know I'm praying for you and your family. Have a great Christmas for your kids
Thanks P. I will carry on with strength and honor. Still struggling with some resentment, but I think that's normal.
I'm handling it.
Resentment is normal. I'll keep saying it. Acknowledge your feelings.
I have you in my thoughts and prayers this xmas = you have been an amazing rock of support to me this year and I am extremely grateful for your presence in my virtual life.
Enjoy the kids and dogs on Xmas.
Oh, and you know me, I'm internally thrilled that my a$$hole H is finally being softer and kinder to me - and I know that is my weakness - forgiving too much of his emotional abuse. So, thanks for the reminder about keeping expectations in check. I had a good talk with myself over that one tonight
Thanks Hope.
I think you are doing great. I have been exactly where you are now and allowed myself to have expectations (and it's REALLY hard not to when things seem to be going so well). Those ended up biting me in the a$$.
Just do your best. And I will keepyou in my thoughts and prayer. Have a great Holiday. I will be around. It's either that or hang with the STBX In-laws!
I like you guys more.
Still struggling with some resentment, but I think that's normal.
That is normal, and it will come and go. I have made it my goal to accept it when it happens, and then work to someday remove it from my thoughts of STBXW.
With that in mind, I made the decision that I WILL work towards.
Forgiveness of my STBXW
Not to gloat, or feel happy when she has issues in her life moving forward.
Not to feel sad about where I am, but to work on being grateful for what I have now, what we once did have, and knowing that I will have what I want in the future, whether that is healthy relationships, happiness, or whatever I determine at the time.
When I feel sad, angry, hurt, resentment, I move back to acceptance and what I want above to help manage those, and bring me back to center again.
Agreed, great advice. I think all LBSs (whether D or not) wish to be able to the get to that point; where they only want the best for the WAS, and they have the confidence and courage to face their own future. I know that I'm not entirely there yet; the sting from the constant lies and fabrications hasn't completely faded, so I do feel a little satisfaction that my W is languishing in a crap-pie of her own making. I am starting to feel sorry for her, and that is probably the next step.
I don't want my W to have a terrible life, nor do I wish any ill will upon her. But, it would be nice to hear one day that she made a mistake. But by then, it won't matter. Maybe I am still struggling with the "WHY" and hearing her say she made a mistake would somehow justify my thoughts/beliefs. Would be a hollow "victory," if a victory at all. A bit of a ramble now.
I fight feelings of resentment/anger, then read a post like Smartcookie's yesterday, and it is the first time in several months when I was brought to tears. As I read her post, I saw a lot of my sitch, or at least the way I suspect my W perceives it. Logical side said to stop reading, it's gonna hurt. But, I couldn't stop reading. And it DID HURT, a lot.
The thought that she can see me the way SC discussed her H is VERY painful.
But then, I think that we have hurt each other enough at this point. Isn't it worth another try? Aren't our kids worth it? Aren't we? I understand the answers to these questions, at least I think I do. But the questions illustrate my frustration. That I know we can make this work - but I DON't KNOW for HER. I just know she has apparently shut the door on working on us. For her, she would rather be alone than with me. And that cuts about as deeply as anything can.
But then, I think that we have hurt each other enough at this point. Isn't it worth another try? Aren't our kids worth it? Aren't we? I understand the answers to these questions, at least I think I do. But the questions illustrate my frustration. That I know we can make this work - but I DON't KNOW for HER. I just know she has apparently shut the door on working on us. For her, she would rather be alone than with me. And that cuts about as deeply as anything can.
GIMA - Take comfort in the fact that you are not alone. I ask myself the same questions, feel the same frustration, and hurt just the same. We have been dealt a sh!tty hand. You just need to know when to hold 'em and when to fold 'em. You never know what cards are going to show up in your next hand.
Very true. Feeling a bit reflective this morning.
But then, I think that we have hurt each other enough at this point. Isn't it worth another try? Aren't our kids worth it? Aren't we? I understand the answers to these questions, at least I think I do. But the questions illustrate my frustration. That I know we can make this work - but I DON't KNOW for HER. I just know she has apparently shut the door on working on us. For her, she would rather be alone than with me. And that cuts about as deeply as anything can.
Gima, I understand how frustrated you must feel. Defeated in a way. All you can do is let her know you're willing and if she's not then eventually a decision will have to be made. It takes two to tango.
I had the same exact feelings/thoughts as I was reading SC's post yesterday. It really struck a nerve with me. It is really hard to imagine that my STBXW was feeling that way, but it is reality.
I think one of the most confusing/depressing aspects of all of this for most LBS, is that the WAS is willing to be alone and deal with any hardships that come along with that, then to remain married to us and trying to make it work.
Divorce IS the ultimate form of rejection and an affair IS the ultimate form of betrayal.
I had the same exact feelings/thoughts as I was reading SC's post yesterday. It really struck a nerve with me. It is really hard to imagine that my STBXW was feeling that way, but it is reality.
I think one of the most confusing/depressing aspects of all of this for most LBS, is that the WAS is willing to be alone and deal with any hardships that come along with that, then to remain married to us and trying to make it work.
When the pain of staying is greater than the pain of leaving, they will only see one option.
While certainly true, I CAN assuage my feelings a bit when I realize all the changes I made in myself - and these were no doubt for ME. But if my changes didn't have an impact on my W's decision, then maybe I have less to do with her unhappiness than she believes.
[quote=pitinmygut]But if my changes didn't have an impact on my W's decision, then maybe I have less to do with her unhappiness than she believes.
Exactly. You need to focus on you.
I don't want my W to have a terrible life, nor do I wish any ill will upon her. But, it would be nice to hear one day that she made a mistake. But by then, it won't matter. Maybe I am still struggling with the "WHY" and hearing her say she made a mistake would somehow justify my thoughts/beliefs. Would be a hollow "victory," if a victory at all. A bit of a ramble now.
Get out of my head my friend.
I had that going through my head all Monday. And yea smartcookie's post the day later... Yea... I read that like a trainwreck.
And yea smartcookie's post the day later...Yea... I read that like a trainwreck.
I think that is the 3rd time she has posted that post. I read it myself when she reposted it about 8 months ago, and - and the same train hit me.
It is still a good reminder that that this ISN'T all about us and what we are feeling. Every time I read it I get a bit more patience and compassion for my w.
I appreciate that the WAS's who are here on the boards keep us honest.
The thing is I do not see my WAS.... I see me. And I struggle with that. Would I have walked ?
The thing is I do not see my WAS.... I see me. And I struggle with that. Would I have walked ?
are you saying you see yourself in the role which smartcookie described for herself in her post?
When I read it I don't see that I acted like smartcookie described her H acting, but I do see that my W could well have felt, in our M, just like smartcookie did in hers.
GIMA, I wrote this long post to you.....and then deleted it (lol) b/c I was saying things that I've already said to you before. Just telling you how much I appreciate your kindness and how big I think your heart is.
In spite of all that you are going through, I pray that you will still have a peaceful Christmas, and will enjoy your friends and loved ones. I am so glad you said you'd stick around here.....b/c you have a way of making people feel special.
Divorce IS the ultimate form of rejection and an affair IS the ultimate form of betrayal.
True THAT!
Thanks sandi. I will have have a great holiday. You do the same.
gima,
Thanks P. I will carry on with strength and honor. Still struggling with some resentment, but I think that's normal.
You've epitomized Strength and Honor for months.
Resentment is tough. Remember our conversation on it? and of course, the old, Resentment is like drinking poison daily hoping your adversary will die.
But resentment
is part of the process. You'll come out the other side of that, too, eventually.
Merry Christmas, buddy. And thank you for all your support these past months, both here and in the .alt.
gima,
But then, I think that we have hurt each other enough at this point. Isn't it worth another try? Aren't our kids worth it? Aren't we? I understand the answers to these questions, at least I think I do. But the questions illustrate my frustration. That I know we can make this work - but I DON't KNOW for HER. I just know she has apparently shut the door on working on us. For her, she would rather be alone than with me. And that cuts about as deeply as anything can.
Well put. Summarizes rather succinctly and painfully the frustration of so many of us.
I had the same exact feelings/thoughts as I was reading SC's post yesterday. It really struck a nerve with me. It is really hard to imagine that my STBXW was feeling that way, but it is reality.
Geez, from what I'm reading I don't know if I want to go over and read SCs post...
I think one of the most confusing/depressing aspects of all of this for most LBS, is that the WAS is willing to be alone and deal with any hardships that come along with that, then to remain married to us and trying to make it work.
Amen.
Divorce IS the ultimate form of rejection and an affair IS the ultimate form of betrayal.
True THAT!
To that I add the adjective "selfish" to modify both nouns.
I don't want my W to have a terrible life, nor do I wish any ill will upon her. But, it would be nice to hear one day that she made a mistake. But by then, it won't matter. Maybe I am still struggling with the "WHY" and hearing her say she made a mistake would somehow justify my thoughts/beliefs. Would be a hollow "victory," if a victory at all. A bit of a ramble now.
I fight feelings of resentment/anger, then read a post like Smartcookie's yesterday, and it is the first time in several months when I was brought to tears. As I read her post, I saw a lot of my sitch, or at least the way I suspect my W perceives it. Logical side said to stop reading, it's gonna hurt. But, I couldn't stop reading. And it DID HURT, a lot.
The thought that she can see me the way SC discussed her H is VERY painful.
But then, I think that we have hurt each other enough at this point. Isn't it worth another try? Aren't our kids worth it? Aren't we? I understand the answers to these questions, at least I think I do. But the questions illustrate my frustration. That I know we can make this work - but I DON't KNOW for HER. I just know she has apparently shut the door on working on us. For her, she would rather be alone than with me. And that cuts about as deeply as anything can.
Wow! I can relate to so much of what you say here GIMA.
Thanks Hope.
I think you are doing great. I have been exactly where you are now and allowed myself to have expectations (and it's REALLY hard not to when things seem to be going so well). Those ended up biting me in the a$$.
Just do your best. And I will keepyou in my thoughts and prayer. Have a great Holiday. I will be around. It's either that or hang with the STBX In-laws!
I like you guys more.
Thanks GIMA - please do stick around - I'll be here too - trying to keep my expectations in check
Update from yesterday, which included a significant conversation, for me at least. In-laws rolled into town - they are staying at a hotel.
On Tuesday, W took kids to the zoo with another friend of S9's. She had told me another child who was visiting from out of town would be joining them as well. The visiting child, and his father, knows my W's step brother. What I had not been told before the zoo trip was that visiting child's father (who has been M'd twice, and I think is currently D'd) was also going. The visiting child's father is friends with W's step-brother and W (she has known him since before me). I found out visiting child's father went when S9 told me who went. This bothered me but I did not know the best way to handle it.
Yesterday, I received a call from a friend who is going through a D - his W and my W are friends (but maybe for not much longer). Friend and his W were arguing yetsreday, and his W blurted out during the argument that my W and her L were going to take me to the cleaners in the D and that I was an abusive drunk towards my W. WTF?
After getting some great advice from a good friend, I knew I had to talk to W about these issues. So, when I came home yesterday, in-laws had already arrived. W went to a different floor of the house alone, so I decided now was the time to discuss these things. I went to where she was and said I needed to talk about two things. First, I thought she needed to know what her "friend" was saying about us and told W what her friend said. I told W I hoped she was not doing what her friend said and that I did not think W would do something like that - lawyering up and trying to take advantage of me. W said she had repeatedly told her friend to stop talking about us and that she could no longer be friends with this person now. W at least gave the appearance that she was angry with her friend. W then said her friend's H could be lying to me - I agreed that was possible (anyone can lie about anything, and I wasn't there for the conversation) but added he has no reason to lie to me and nothing to gain by lying to me, which is true. W did not have a reply to that. W repeated that she would have a talk with her friend and that she could no longer be her friend. I said, again, I was merely passing along what I had been told and that I thought the statements were hurtful and offensive.
Second, I told W that I did not know that visiting child's father would be at the zoo, and that I should have been told beforehand. I told W I did not think she was on a date or that she was up to no good (and I don't, but the radar is up quite a bit higher now). She said her step brother had called her and asked if visiting child and his father could go to the zoo with them since they would be visiting from out of town. I said, again, I was not told the father would be there and that I should have been - the issue is that I was not told. W then said she had known this child's father for a long time (which I knew). I said again, calmly, that the problem I had was that she had not told me before the zoo trip that he would be there.
I maintained my composure the entire time during the discussion, not once losing my cool. And when it was done, I felt better. I said what I needed to say, not in a condemning way, but in a "I have a problem with this and here is what I expect to happen in the future...Do not do these things again" kind of way.
Mornin' GIMA. You did good. Gotta think more and more about what is best for GIMA. It's certainly not selfish at this point...it's survival.
Mornin' GIMA. You did good. Gotta think more and more about what is best for GIMA. It's certainly not selfish at this point...it's survival.
Thanks. I think I did well too. Really wasn't about getting any reaction/result from her. It was about a couple of things that bothered me that I needed to get off my chest. What she chooses to do with those things is her business. I just didn't want to carry those negative thoughts/feelings around.
So, last night W mentions that she and her parents are taking the kids to a movie today. She does not ask me to go or mention that I can join them, and I think she assumes that an invite is assumed. Well, it's not.
I will pass on the movie simply b/c I don't want to go. Why waste the $ for a ticket for myself to see a movie I don't want to see. I have skipped some movies with the kids in the past.
Think I'll go for a run instead.
I notice in all the anger about what friend's wife said, she did not deny telling the wife those things, only that she had instructed her not to repeat them. Now you know what you will be hit with.
Hey GIMA,
These interactions are going to be tough, but you can handle it, as you have.
I know for a fact that my STBXW had similar conversations with her friends, so don't doubt that some of those things your W said have some truth to them.
I'd be cautious of confrontation and discussion about things you find out. Setting boundaries about some things may be fine, but she will be on guard and wary now, and that may not be beneficial to you.
I am not sure I am expressing this correctly in a forum post, or it's coming across to you as I intend. Not a 2x4 or anything like it!
@LOTUS, she actually did deny saying she had a L or that she was going to take me to the cleaners. What is obvious is that she has told her "friend" what she NEVER expressed to me - that she thought I was abusive and drank too much. During the end of 2008 and early 2009 I was drinking more than I should but by no means was a "drunk.". I quit the day she dropped the bomb and haven't looked back since.
@IWITW, I hear you. At this point, I have accepted she isn't coming back so there is no reason for me to keep these issues inside - never was before if I find something out that is something I need to keep to myself, I will.
I just didn't want to carry those negative thoughts/feelings around.
I understand that. You're better off getting rid of them if you can.
IMO you handled that very well GIMA. Hearing those things must have been such a blow, especially after she has been so friendly for so long. I truly hope she was being honest when she said she has no L and didn't say she was taking you to the cleaners. That is so uncalled for.
She already wants to dismantle your family, why be ugly about it?
Hope your trip to the grocery store wasn't too bad! Last night was a nightmare!
Merry Christmas, Feliz Navidad & Prospero Ano!!
I will pass on the movie simply b/c I don't want to go. Why waste the $ for a ticket for myself to see a movie I don't want to see.
Think I'll go for a run instead.
I'd pick a run any day over Alvin and the Chipmunks!
Hey, Merry Christmas from the Coach/Greek house to yours! Cheers, friend!
Greek
I will pass on the movie simply b/c I don't want to go. Why waste the $ for a ticket for myself to see a movie I don't want to see.
Think I'll go for a run instead.
I'd pick a run any day over Alvin and the Chipmunks!
Hey, Merry Christmas from the Coach/Greek house to yours! Cheers, friend!
Greek
How the he!! did you guys know that's what they were going to see?!
Really, that IS what they went to see.
I will take my iPod, some loud music and a run instead.
Merry Christmas to the both of you. Getting to know you two, and everyone here, has to be the best Christmas present I have ever gotten.
OMG! How the heck did she guess that??? I was just thinking to myself, "now what movie could be so bad that he wouldn't want to go see it with the kids?" Heavens! I should have known!
Now, my son and I were planning to go see Sherlock Holmes tomorrow but now it seems he is going to his dad's for the afternoon so that plan is out. That would be a much more fun movie, but probably not good viewing for your very young children!
OMG! How the heck did she guess that??? I was just thinking to myself, "now what movie could be so bad that he wouldn't want to go see it with the kids?" Heavens! I should have known!
Now, my son and I were planning to go see Sherlock Holmes tomorrow but now it seems he is going to his dad's for the afternoon so that plan is out. That would be a much more fun movie, but probably not good viewing for your very young children!
No, probably not appropriate for a 9 and 6 year old.
And, in response to your earlier post Mishka, I do not think she has lawyered up. My guard is up, but you would have to know her "friend" who said these things to understand. As for the L issue, I am one, so I understand the importance of getting counsel.
GIMA, you did perfect. W must have been shocked that you found out, and that you handled it with such maturity and composure. People lay a lot of things when preparing for a D, W's friend also could have exaggerated. You'll never know, but it's good W knows you are aware if she is saying uncool things.
You are a L, so you know how to fight in court. You will handle fine. She can threaten, but you know what you can and cannot defend.
Merry Christmas to you GIMA, and your family!
Merry Christmas to you GIMA, and your family!
You too buddy.
Well, feeling a tinge of sadness. Ok, maybe a little more than a tinge. Realized as I was tucking the kids in tonight, this is probably the last Christmas Eve we will all spend under the same roof. And that stings.
I really feel like giving in to the sadness, but then I thought about strength and honor. And I have to be strong. Have to. Wonder if W is having these same thoughts?
Merry Christmas everyone. I wish you all peace and happiness. We all deserve that.
((GIMA)) Merry Christmas, sweetie.
!
!
!
Wonder if W is having these same thoughts?
She does.
Thanks sandi and Greek.
I am trying to focus on how happy and excited the kids were. That is pure joy.
Decided not to break a tradition of watching Christmas Vacation - just this year I'm watching alone. And that's ok. I don't feel like hanging out with her right now.
I think (know) my W is much better at concealing her emotions than me. She has been very happy and smiley all day. Oh well, I'm sure you're right Greek, and she has her own demons to battle.
I will man. What's the alternative?
Merry Christmas buddy!!! Today is all about the kids. I've been up since 6:00 a.m. unwrapping gifts. We're off to the in-laws for lunch/dinner. Today will be a good day.
Best Wishes,
LFH
Merry Christmas buddy!!! Today is all about the kids. I've been up since 6:00 a.m. unwrapping gifts. We're off to the in-laws for lunch/dinner. Today will be a good day.
Best Wishes,
LFH
Merry Christmas to you too! Just finished opening presents with the kids. So great to see how excited they get. Doesn't get any better than that.
My in-laws are here. My W's step brother and his GF will get here after lunch, so another round of present opening.
gima,
Merry Christmas, my friend.
And thank you.
(Inner) Peace,
Gardener
gima,
Merry Christmas, my friend.
And thank you.
(Inner) Peace,
Gardener
Merry Christmas to you too! Hope you and S are having a great day.
Today has been a little harder than I thought it would be. No blow ups or anything, but it is difficult being around my W and "pretending" all is well, when everyone knows it isn't. Her parents are no different than in years past - what are they supposed to do really? Can't blame them, and I'm sure this isn't the easiest for them either.
Oopened presents with the kids, W and in-laws this morning. I bought several nice cast iron cake molds for W (she is BIG into cake baking and decorating) - all these presents were from the kids. I got a set of basting brushes. WTF? Not to sound unappreciative, but, dam*, maybe something a little more than an impulse buy you saw waiting in line at a hardware store. No matter, today isn't about that anyway.
W's step brother and his GF came by this afternoon. I spent most of my time outside to give them space (and me space) and to cook the turkey. When they were getting ready to leave, W's brother's GF made a point to walk across the room to me and gave me a big hug. I let go when you normally would, but she didn't. She told me she and W's brother (who's W up and left him right before Christmas a few years ago) had been thinking about me "a lot." I told her thanks and made small talk with her. That small gesture out of nowhere and from someone I don't know very well, meant so much to me. Not that anyone can change what will happen, but just someone who says in essence, I understand and I feel for you is uplifting.
I don't have any bad feelings for my anyone in my W's family, but for the first time since we were M'd, I really missed being around some of MY family (apart from my kids). I was talking to one of my uncles today, and he said he wished I could have been with them (about 4 hours away). I told him I knew that next year, no matter what, things would be better. And they will.
It has been a difficult, but not impossible, day. Right now, I just want to get all of the hard stuff done so I can get on with my life. Sorry guys. I don't mean to sound negative - I'm not.
Merry Christmas GIMA
Merry Christmas GIMA
Merry Christmas to you to Soleil.
Things will improve.
Well, in-laws have shoved off. Unusually, MIL, who usually hugs me when she leaves, shook my hand tonight. I cannot remember her ever doing that. Oh well.
Feeling pretty distant from W. But, I will be fine. Just glad today is almost over.
Merry Christmas, GIMA.
The holidays are the roughest time for people in our sitches. It sounds like yours went as well as can be expected.
Hey GIMA.
Merry Christmas man! Today was kinda hard at times for me too. First one with a re-defined family. But ya know what? It's just about over, yours too, and we did it! 11 months ago I didn't know how I was gonna do any damn thing! Now, I'm home alone and taking down the Christmas tree! Put the kids toys and stuff away earlier. God bless you man...and God bless all of us.
Thanks PD and Antlers. I'll be ok, but I'm ready to have this behind me.
It wasn't all bad. My kids made me laugh and smile.
GIMA. I posted my Christmas wishes for you on my thread but now sending you further wishes that you can get this situation resolved and out of this painful limbo existence really quickly. You, like me, have given it all and we can now move forward at peace with ourselves knowing we did all we could to keep our families in tact.
Yesterday, for the first time I experienced a peace that I never knew I could have. There is a way forward!!
GIMA - Your kids are cuties!!! Should be an easy smile!!
Thanks Cas. I will make it. Today just sort of jumped up and bit me. I wasn't expecting it to.
Mindfull, my kids are pretty awesome, but I'm a little biased. Glad you saw those.
GIMA, that happened to me just last week. Acknowledge it and use the self talk to help you through.
GIMA, that happened to me just last week. Acknowledge it and use the self talk to help you through.
Yes. Doing that now.
Got to talk with my S tonight as W was putting D to bed. Nothing earth shattering that S and I discussed. Just that he had a good Christmas. Told him I loved him and made a joke about cooking the turkey today.
Merry Christmas GIMA! Those cute little kids sure make it worthwhile, don't they?
Bunny
Merry Christmas GIMA! Those cute little kids sure make it worthwhile, don't they?
Bunny
They ALWAYS do. My D got a bunch of outfits today (mostly play stuff) so she must have changed outfits 4-5 times. Of course, each time is a fashion show, right down to the plastic earrings.
Oh how priceless GIMA! Enjoy those precious moments. My D is 13, and sometimes I miss those days!
Sending some wishes for peace your way....
Rocked
Oh how priceless GIMA! Enjoy those precious moments. My D is 13, and sometimes I miss those days!
Sending some wishes for peace your way....
Rocked
Thanks rocked. Hope you had a great day.
GIMA, you did great. The best you could. I'm so glad you treasured the moments with the kids and watched your traditional show anyhow. Wishing you peace!
Fun afternoon. S and I went to the grocery to pick up something to cook on the grill. On the way back, while sitting at an intersection, a guy rear ends us. Why? Cuz he wa looking at his dam# cell phone. I saw him briefly before he hit us, and he had to be going 25 or so when he hit us. No brakes.
Thankfully, S was not hurt, and I'm just getting some stiffness and soreness in my shoulders. Grilling's going to have to wait until tomorrow.
At least when I got home, W got a hot buckwheat bag thing to put on my shoulders. She didn't have to do that.
I took the kids earlier today to go use some gift certificates. So, I got to spend some great time making them laugh for a few hourse today. And W got some alone time for several hours. Wonder if it's dawned on her this will be her existence 50% of the time?
Ouch! Glad to hear you are ok even if I'm a bit jealous that its warm enough to grill in your neck of the woods.
I'm glad you're both OK. Take care, take it easy and I hope you feel better soon.
Hugs, Bunny
C-Bart - I'm not too far south of GIMA and it's too cold for me to be out grilling! He's obviously a heartier sort than me. Of course, our cold is nothing compared to yours in MO!
I can handle our version of the cold, not C-Bart's.
S wanted ribs, so I was going to try a new dry rub on them, then cook them in a tray with apple juice and a honey coating. Now, I'm hungry.
So, I'm turning in to my room early tonight b/c I have a bit of a headach/neck ache. I went out to kiss S and D (who are heading off to bed) good night. I told W I was hitting it early (there has actually been a little talk b/w us tonight) b/c my head hurt, and she says quickly "I was gonna ask how you were feeling." Ok, then why didn't you? But, she didn't have to say it.
I hate allowing myself to have a connection with her when I know she wants me out of her life. And it's so much easier when she isn't nice.
But, her niceness in a few simple gestures tonight have helped reduce some of my resentment. I still have my guard up. As much as I would like for today to be a good sign, I just can't let myself buy into that.
Sorry to hear about the accident. I am glad everyone is okay.
Cute kiddos, BTW.
Get some rest.
Thanks. Still watching a little TV and posting.
Good morning folks.
W took the kids to church this morning. A bit of a surprise to me as she did not say she was going to take them (she usually tells me they are going - as a hint for me to go?). Well, it is what it is. By the time I woke up, it was too late for me to get ready. So, I will read my Bible, have some coffee, and check out the boards.
W seemed withdrawn this morning. All she told me was about some entries she updated on our budget and how much I owed on my car that was rear ended yesterday. She's so warm and fuzzy these days. Sorry, just kidding.
I noticed from my in-laws being here for Christmas how enamored they are with money and the price of things. How much this car or that car costs. How cheap they bought a bag of chips. Man, let it go. Do you really know what is important? Really?
The point of the budget is to note how consumed she is with money. I understand wanting and needing security, but she seems to take it to a different level. And if she isn't happy about the $$$$, no one's happy.
And I don't understand why money for her seems to be THE most important issue. Right now, maybe it's all she has left since she has given up on our M.
As concerned as my W is about money, she does not appear to be looking for A job. Instead, she's looking for THE job. Well, if you want to help out with money, find something that will help US.
A bit of a rant this morning. Some due to being left out of church (I know, I can take them, but we have gone sporadically at best lately). That's ok. During our service, there is a part where the congregation exchanges the "peace" where people shake hands and spouses actually, kiss each other (Wow), and that part of the service has been awkward ever since the bomb. She usually solve that issue by sitting in a seperate pew from me.
P.S.: After writing this post, the thought came to me that if this is what my W values most in life, why would I want to spend the rest of my life with her? And, I don't have an answer other than I wouldn't.
As concerned as my W is about money, she does not appear to be looking for A job. Instead, she's looking for THE job. Well, if you want to help out with money, find something that will help US.
Has your W always been this way, or only concerned about money when she thought about being single/D? I think if I remember back from earlier in your thread you had said she was always like this in one way or another (concerned about money) and it makes sense given how her parents are.
My W is now, after 20+ years working only 2 days a week (which I was always in favor of and even wanted her to work less at times because we had 4 kids), suddently motivated to work more (but not a lot more). With 2 kids about to enter college I would have been supportive of this but only her desire to be single is motivating her. If it wasn't for this selfish need she wouldn't consider it. This really frys me - she is motivated to work more but not to help the family, only herself. I guess any more income either of us generates helps the family, whether we are paying for 2 households or 1.
I suspect if you get going with a separation/D agreement your W will balk in some way. The fact that she has skills will impact how much support you pay (or don't pay) hopefully, forcing her to get moving on earning an income. These are all ingredients involved with facing reality.
During our service, there is a part where the congregation exchanges the "peace" where people shake hands and spouses actually, kiss each other (Wow), and that part of the service has been awkward ever since the bomb. She usually solve that issue by sitting in a seperate pew from me.
My W is always the one who was getting us to go to church. She would take my kids many times alone without me, which I now regret looking back. However, in the past year the # of times my W went to church can be counted on one hand. It is a major change, even though our kids are involved with the church's religious education programs, etc. She has a very low opinion of herself fueled by her guilt over what she is doing with our M (and presumably OM) which is a facto I believe.
However, I have noticed the same thing as you about exchanging 'peace'. She would always grab me and kiss me during this ritual and she even did it this past Easter (the last time she kissed me actually), but the other day on xmas she only shook my hand. She might have done more if I had leaned over but I wasn't interested. I am only interested in affection she willingly gives at this point.
Trying,
Thanks for the post. Yes, you have a good memory - my W has always (as much as I dislike speaking in absolutes) been overly interested in money. That isn't new, but I'm sure it has taken on more importance for her now that she has said she wants a D.
I have never been an irresponsible spender, but I am definitely the spender of us two. Since the bomb, I have really reigned in unnecessary purchases. I did it b/c it was the right thing to do, but it would have been nice to get at least some thank you or acknowledgment from her - but I didn't and don't look for that from her.
As for her looking for a job, she has tried looking for a position similar to what she had before she stopped working. I have not chimed in on her looking for a job. Throughout our M, I have always been supportive of her decision of working v. not working. I truly think she is one who NEEDS to work, simply for the intellectual stimulation and sense of self-worth. But, the point is, it has always been HER choice. Right now, we really could use the extra money, like everyone else in the world. We are making it, but it's tight.
I have always been the spender as well, but I think these contrasts are what makes us good partners since we compliment each other in the right ways (until the differences start creating issues).
In my situtation, my W transitioned from someone who frowned on any spending (she never thought we needed a new car, new house ,etc she was very practical vs. myself). About 2 years ago that changed. Any expense related to her own self-improvement (trainers, expensive bikes, plastic surgery, etc) were OK. It was a marked turnaround for her since she used to be so thrifty.
Your W hasn't changed in that way. Have you guys actually figured out how much support she would get if she had a job like her previous one? Has she really digested the economic impact of a S/D? Given her focus on $$$s I would think this would be a big factor in her decision-making.
We have not discussed the financial impact of the D. She has a rude awakening
My W is going to have the same rude awakening esp. since she has never been really good at handling finances.
Let the crisis beging..... :0
GIMA, Your wife sounds depressed. Needs certain things but won't take any action except passive behavior - learned hopelessness. You can't fix it, she will have to fix it herself. What will it take? Only God knows.
Cheers
Thanks man. And I think you're right. And you point out the reason for my frustration. I can't make her want to get help or find her way out of her funk.
I can only try to model lead and model behavior.
I'm open to suggestions. I honestly don't know what more I can do.
She has made comments about not knowing if "anyone ever recovers from a financial hit" like ours. Ok, I get it - it is a hit, NOT a knock out punch. Definitely something we will overcome. She doesn't see it that way - which is the learned helplessness.
S and I had a great time at the football game today - went with some friends. And we won.
Got home, and I'm gonna cook some ribs on the grill.
Since home, W has been chatty with me in a happy, interested way. Been down this road before. But, it is different from the past few weeks.
Hey GIMA,
It appears that you need to move forward with your life. You are correct...there really is nothing left you can do to get your W out of her funk. God knows I've tried with mine. We share the same situation. This is their problem now...time for us to move on buddy. Maybe filing for divorce will snap your wife out of it. Maybe not. If filing doesn't wake them up, I can't think of anything else that will. It is what it is my friend.
-LFH
LFH,
Unfortunately, I think you are correct. I don't think she has any idea how hard this going to be on us financially. But, as Coach has told me, I can't apply logic to an emotional decision.
Gima, Sorry about the accident. Glad no one was hurt too badly. How's your neck?
Good morning folks...
I noticed from my in-laws being here for Christmas how enamored they are with money and the price of things. How much this car or that car costs. How cheap they bought a bag of chips. Man, let it go. Do you really know what is important? Really?
So, not surprisingly, that's where W got her preoccupation with appearances.
And I don't understand why money for her seems to be THE most important issue. Right now, maybe it's all she has left since she has given up on our M.
Appearances, appearances.
As concerned as my W is about money, she does not appear to be looking for A job. Instead, she's looking for THE job.
Life, as the more realistic among us realize, does not afford such luxury. Maybe you should cut her off from all but house and kid money.
P.S.: After writing this post, the thought came to me that if this is what my W values most in life, why would I want to spend the rest of my life with her? And, I don't have an answer other than I wouldn't.
Tough, but perhaps ultimately inevitable conclusion.
You are in my prayers and have my sign of peace, friend.
How are you feeling today GIMA? No lingering effects from the accident?
Gardener, thanks. I am sifting through some conflicting emotions today. Probably triggered by W acting like the W of old slightly. Thanks for your thoughts and prayers.
SB, no negative effects from the wreck. I have to take the car to a body shop to have them give me the number. I think it's gonna be significant. Thanks for asking.
The conflict I have is logic (she isn't coming back and any nice behavior from her is b/c she wants to feel better or just get along until D is finished) v. emotion (she is acting nicely, so maybe this might be a sign). So far, logic is winning.
I will be polite, but continue to show strength in my discussions and actions. I will get things moving for the D - first step would seem to sit down with her and talk about what D will look like - financial aspect, custody, etc. Not doing this to get a reaction from her. It is the only option I see at this point.
I will be polite, but continue to show strength in my discussions and actions. I will get things moving for the D - first step would seem to sit down with her and talk about what D will look like - financial aspect, custody, etc. Not doing this to get a reaction from her. It is the only option I see at this point.
Talk with her BEFORE you file? For consensus? Don't forget the 'v' (GIMA v GIMA's W).
Greek
Glad to hear that you had no ill effects from the accident.
When are you sitting down with her? Do you have an idea of what a D will look like yourself? Think it would be good if you had a starting point for custody, support, etc. before you sit down.
Greek, the thought is to reach as many agreements as possible v. lawyering up off the bat, which means WAY more expense. Also, I suspect what she thinks hte D will look like v. what I will agree to are two, very different, things. It's an opportunity to bring more reality her way. I'm listening if you feel strongly otherwise.
C-Bart, I do think I have to get MY ducks in a row before I sit down with her.
gima,
I will be polite, but continue to show strength in my discussions and actions. I will get things moving for the D - first step would seem to sit down with her and talk about what D will look like - financial aspect, custody, etc. Not doing this to get a reaction from her. It is the only option I see at this point.
I know you're a lawyer, but it seems to me that first step should be your sitting down with a lawyer, not W (unless you've already done so and I missed/forgot it).
Greek, the thought is to reach as many agreements as possible v. lawyering up off the bat, which means WAY more expense.
Makes sense.
Also, I suspect what she thinks hte D will look like v. what I will agree to are two, very different, things. It's an opportunity to bring more reality her way. I'm listening if you feel strongly otherwise.
But I think this is where it may get hairy. Talk w/ Coach tomorrow if you get a chance about this. Back in our time
he kept almost everything very close to the vest which kept me off balance. The couple of times that we did try to talk about the legal issues face to face were...disasters. Very ugly. Very personal. Very unproductive. I know you are a lawyer and surely know more than the average bear about how to navigate these waters. But your emotions about this particular case will interfere with your objectivity.
Greek
GREEK,
Hijack.
Read the beginning of my last post on my thread.
Ssshhhh! Not a word to Coach!
End hijack, gima.
I know you are a lawyer and surely know more than the average bear about how to navigate these waters. But your emotions about this particular case will interfere with your objectivity.
NO DOUBT THERE. "The L who represents him/herself has a fool for a client." I have no intention of representing myself in the D. So, Gardener is correct that I need to sit down with a D L first.
I also have no intention of agreeing to anything more than the law says I must do. Agreeing is one thing and doing more than that (I'm thinking of $$ for the kids) on MY terms is quite another. I want control of that. In my view, D does not mean I am financing Mrs. GIMA's new solo lifestyle. We will BOTH suffer for her decision.
I will catch up with Coach.
Hey GIMA,
To address your quote of:
"The conflict I have is logic (she isn't coming back and any nice behavior from her is b/c she wants to feel better or just get along until D is finished) v. emotion (she is acting nicely, so maybe this might be a sign). So far, logic is winning."
I have the same thing going on in my situation. It drives me insanely crazy thinking about it. When the "logic" is driving my thinking, I moving fast forward with filing for the divorce. When the "emotion" is driving my thinking, I wonder if I've been lovingly patient enough with my wife. It's a butt-kicker for sure. In both of our cases, the "emotion" can be ratified by our wives simply saying "I want to work on our marriage"...but they don't. This is why I'm moving forward with my life.
-LFH
Hey GIMA,
To address your quote of:
"The conflict I have is logic (she isn't coming back and any nice behavior from her is b/c she wants to feel better or just get along until D is finished) v. emotion (she is acting nicely, so maybe this might be a sign). So far, logic is winning."
I have the same thing going on in my situation. It drives me insanely crazy thinking about it. When the "logic" is driving my thinking, I moving fast forward with filing for the divorce. When the "emotion" is driving my thinking, I wonder if I've been lovingly patient enough with my wife. It's a butt-kicker for sure. In both of our cases, the "emotion" can be ratified by our wives simply saying "I want to work on our marriage"...but they don't. This is why I'm moving forward with my life.
-LFH
That's a completely accurate description of how I feel. Which takes me back to "what other choice do I have under the circumstances?"
GIMA,
Just found this interesting quote from Dr. Phil:
People often ask Dr. Phil, "How do I know if I'm ready to get a divorce?" The number one thing that you have to know is this: The time to get a divorce is when you can walk out the door with no anger, no resentment and no bitterness.
Now you're probably saying, "Wait a minute. Isn't that why you get a divorce?" No. If you've still got anger, resentment and bitterness, you've still got unfinished business, Dr. Phil says. You should be able to walk out the door saying, "I've done everything I can do to resolve this situation. I cannot do it. I accept that. I am moving on with my life." If you can't do that, you've got too much unfinished emotional business.
Are you there yet? I'm asking this same question to myself.
-LFH
I can definitely say I cannot do anything more than I have to try to make the M work. But, I still have some resentment and anger at times - these I do not think will go away until more time has passed.
GIMA,
Maybe the last thing we try is to remain lovingly patient? Again, I'm asking this question to myself as well. I'm planning on filing this week while my W is on a skiing vacation in Vermont by "herself."
THIS REALLY SUCKS!!!!!
-LFH
GIMA,
Maybe the last thing we try is to remain lovingly...
...strong and honorable. That's always in style
Greek
SUCK, it does.
I have some work to do before I push the D button. I have to look at what teh D will look like for me - the numbers, not the emotions.
But, I cannot stay in this limbo existence. I just can't.
Well, I'll try again, Greek, from a few posts back:
GREEK,
Hijack.
Read the beginning of my last post on my thread.
Ssshhhh! Not a word to Coach!
End hijack, gima.
Greek,
I have to admit that since W changed her mind about MC, I have not been loving around her. In fact, I have nearly ignored her and been pretty short with her.
Today, I realized ignoring her and being short with her actually conveyed weakness and was not attractive. Yesterday and today, I made a point to act nicer to W, and it seemed like she was dying to be nice to me.
Don't think this means we are in any different a place, but I need to work on the strength part of strength and honor.
Don't think this means we are in any different a place, but I need to work on the strength part of strength and honor.
Very good GIMA. Great that you realize that and are willing to move on it.
Hope your new year is full of brightness wherever possible.
Thanks mishka. I think the heavy lifting for me is about to start. Time to get the D ball rolling.
GIMA,
Sounds like your doing ok, and I wish you the best in the new year.
I have some work to do before I push the D button. I have to look at what teh D will look like for me - the numbers, not the emotions.
But, I cannot stay in this limbo existence. I just can't.
I see so many people lately starting to prep for this, and move over to StBD. I think I read 4 or 5 posts from people just this AM on this!
Hopefully the below comments will get to others as well, when it comes to D, so keep these in mind.
I heard these below, and it seems appropriate to what I have found so far as I meander through the D process..
"When it comes to D, the object of the court is to make sure NEITHER party is happy, especially financially. If one party is happy at the end, then the result was not fair."
"It takes 128% of the pre D income to maintain the same lifestyle for both parties after the D."
These are the realities of D financially, as I believe your aware. The reason's for D go beyond the finances, but when the numbers start to hit you, it is difficult to separate the emotion from the numbers, and keep them separate.
Keeping you all that are going through this in my thoughts and prayers..
Thanks IWITW.
I am starting the number crunching today. While I don't know what the end numbers will be, I am aware that both of us will take a big hit to our stad's of living - more importantly, the kids will too.
This is NOT what I want, but what choice do I have?
Your financial hit = temporary. You'll bounce back.
FWIW ~~~ I don't think it will come to that. I'm thinking the D process is going to wake her up. I just do.
Greek
GIMA, if your W changed her mind on the MC, have you thought about going alone???
Your financial hit = temporary. You'll bounce back.
Oooh, good stuff, I should have added that myself, as that is where I have gotten too myself.
A bit of 'Learned Optimism' there....
However, my only issue is my STBXW thinks the same way, that it's only temporary, so has 0 issue with the financial impact to herself, as well as me, as a result of the D. (Although her financial decisions make me wonder about her at times..)
I'd like to see GIMA's sitch come around. I just don't see the same apathy in his sitch as I saw in mine..
Your financial hit = temporary. You'll bounce back.
FWIW ~~~ I don't think it will come to that. I'm thinking the D process is going to wake her up. I just do.
Greek
Greek, I know I will bounce back much quicker than she. I recall reading a paper about this very topic where some people had gathered statistics on D, and one of their conclusions was what you stated.
I want to believe it will not come to D, but I'm a bit gun shy on placing hope she will come back. You could be right, and that would be what I prefer.
I spent the morning running calculations on child support, and, it isn't nearly as bad as I had presumed. And these are rough numbers.
Something about taking some action to figure this stuff out that makes me feel a little more in control.
I can handle it. Not so sure she can/will.
GIMA, if your W changed her mind on the MC, have you thought about going alone???
Sol,
I have seen an IC since the bomb. He was the one who turned me on to DB, and he has been helping me try to save the M with teh DB principals in mind.
I am still open to working on the M, if SHE decides she wants to do the work too. I'm just not going to do it alone any more.
I am still open to working on the M, if SHE decides she wants to do the work too. I'm just not going to do it alone any more.
Sounds like a good plan, GIMA. How is the IC working out for you?
I am still open to working on the M, if SHE decides she wants to do the work too. I'm just not going to do it alone any more.
Sounds like a good plan, GIMA. How is the IC working out for you?
He's been very helpful, but I feel I plateaued with him - probably just caught up with my W and hopefully passed her. I've done all I can.
Hi ya GIMA, old pal...old buddy....old friend (how old are you anyway?) No I have not been drinking! I have these spells to come over me for no good reason.
Just wanted to say hello and tell you I'm thinking about you. What do you have planned for New Year's Eve?
Hi sandi.
Thanks for keeping me in your thoughts. I don't have plans yet for New Years - yet. Never liked going out that evening so I may just cook dinner (for the kids - W can join if she wants). It would be VERY out of the ordinary (to the kids) for me to be out without W.
Things will start heating up in early January.
So, between working on end of the year reports for my office and meeting with clients, I have continued to make plans for moving forward with splitting apart the M. I have told my W there are only two alternatives - either work on the M or we need to take it apart. She has said she doesn't want to work on the M, so, that only leaves one alternative.
I have a plan now on how to move forward. It will not be comfortable or easy, but, given my situation, it is the right thing to do. If my W comes out of the fog as a result of my actions, and I am willing to work with her to rebuild our M at that point, great. If she does not come back, then I haven't lost a thing by moving forward. In fact, I will have gained much.
I simply will not sit around waiting on my W to decide if, and when, SHE is willing to put the pieces of OUR M back together. Her decision to leave me was HER decision but one that affected ME greatly. Now, it is time for me to take back control of what happens to me and my kids.
I've read it a few times here. What is "limboland"? My husband left 8 weeks ago and I read A LOT on this site. If anyone has any advice for me...I would love to hear it.
Thanks
I've read it a few times here. What is "limboland"? My husband left 8 weeks ago and I read A LOT on this site. If anyone has any advice for me...I would love to hear it.
Thanks
I suppose the best way to describe it is a place you reach when your WAS has said they want a D, but, for whatever reason, (a) won't lift a finger to do any of the dirty work to file or move forward with it of (b) work on re-building the M. That leaves the LBS in an awful position of having to either hang around, living on what, if any, crumbs the WAS chooses to leave for the LBS, or move forward with the D themselves.
Limboland is a slow death. Maybe you can stay there briefly to catch your breath and get your ducks in a row, but it's no place to stay. But, you have to be strong to leave. Easy to stay, but not the right thing to do in hte long run.
Wish I had learned that sooner.
Limbo Land is the worst!
So GIMA, what's your plan to move forward?
Limbo Land is the worst!
So GIMA, what's your plan to move forward?
Didn't want to set it out in detail just in case someone is reading here. Happy to lay it out afterwards, especially if it might help someone.
Theme is taking back control of my life.
Grab your life back by the horns, GIMA!
Theme is taking back control of my life.
But sweetie (and I say that with much affection in my heart),........why couldn't you take back control of your life before?
Theme is taking back control of my life.
But sweetie (and I say that with much affection in my heart),........why couldn't you take back control of your life before?
Sandi, I did before, but I don't think until early December when W changed her mind about MC ("No, I never said I'd go for reconciliation") that I was truly ready to walk from the "M."
So what took me so long? Maybe misplaced hope that W would choose to work on the M. Maybe a sense of obligation to try everything I could before giving up on keeping my family together. Don't know. It just did.
But for the intervening Holidays, I would have been on this path in mid December.
Good day. Nothing earth shattering, just that I feel good about where I am going.
Came home tonight and got in a great workout. Then home, showered and watched the bowl game with S9.
W tried talking to me a little, and I was polite, but did not engage her in conversation. Not mad, just don't have much to say to her.
Got some great new books I ordered online. "The Way of the Superior Man," "Crucial Conversations" and "Crucial Confrontations." Looking forward to tearing through them.
Happy New Year, GIMA. I know it will be different for you this year, but hopefully better. Thank you for all your support and wisdom this year, my friend.
Happy New Year, GIMA. I know it will be different for you this year, but hopefully better. Thank you for all your support and wisdom this year, my friend.
Happy New Year to you too Hope. I know that 2010 will be a better year for all of us here. It's just up to us to make it so.
And thank you for your support and input as well. I really appreciate it.
W tried talking to me a little, and I was polite, but did not engage her in conversation. Not mad, just don't have much to say to her.
That's the way to do it!
Yes gl Gima and to all !!
W tried talking to me a little, and I was polite, but did not engage her in conversation. Not mad, just don't have much to say to her.
That's the way to do it!
Thanks Sandi. Haven't really had much to post about.
I've been trying to be distant, but in a very non-emotional way. Trying to convey an image of I don't care what you do v. I'm angry/hurt/resentful.
I've been trying to be distant, but in a very non-emotional way. Trying to convey an image of I don't care what you do v. I'm angry/hurt/resentful.
Good job. The next, important stage of detachment.
Strength to you and success with the plans you're formulating.
Happy/different/better New Year to you.
Happy New Year GIMA! I wish you success with your plans also.
And thank you for your support and encouragement the last couple days. I've been blessed by knowing you.
Hugs, Bunny
Trying to convey an image of I don't care what you do v. I'm angry/hurt/resentful.
Yeah, it sounds awful when trying to tell somebody that that is what one needs to do, but it is the message that most WAW's need.
You have a right to feel what you do. You've worked hard and your heart has been through hell. I think it's time for you to start taking care of "you" and really get that attitude in your mind/body that you
don't care what she does and that you are going to make a new life for yourself. You gave her every opportunity and if she's crazy enough to mess it up.......then life is too short and you're going to make the most of it.
Thanks sandi.
And you are correct. I do care about W and what will happen to the kids (ouch), but I can't do limboland any more. Its strange, b/c this has been a painful process, no doubt, but I am not destroyed by it - instead, I am such a better and stronger person b/c of it.
Financially, we were tight as a M'd couple, but post-D, its gonna be worse for us both for a time. I know I will bounce back, and probably quicker than her (that's not the point though).
Been reading up on narsicism. Wouldn't say W is full blown, but definitely shows tendencies.
Ok, something funny.
I am watching the bowl game with S9. W is getting D6 ready for bed. She calls from the back "GIMA, can you come back here and take care of this godzilla cock roach?"
Who's gonna do that when I'm not around?!
That is funny.
I have an unnatural fear of roaches. I send s15 after them but he doesn't do much better. LOL. I tend to stand on a kitchen chair spraying them with toxic chemicals until they are twitching then vaccum them up. EWwwwww!!!
That is funny.
I have an unnatural fear of roaches. I send s15 after them but he doesn't do much better. LOL. I tend to stand on a kitchen chair spraying them with toxic chemicals until they are twitching then vaccum them up. EWwwwww!!!
OK, after posting that, I feel the need to say we do not have a lot of these. But, in the southeast, it is impossoble not to have an occasional one.
And, both the kids can't stand bugs, so I don't see her convincing S9 to take care of it. And, I'm not driving to her new place to do it. So, sounds like a HER problem.
I just thought it humorous tonight.
HA! A shoe!
We don't get the traditional cockroaches here...we get those scary palmetto bugs. Big, Black, flying monsters that carry off small dogs and children!
HA! A shoe!
We don't get the traditional cockroaches here...we get those scary palmetto bugs. Big, Black, flying monsters that carry off small dogs and children!
Where I grew up, we had palmetto bugs, and they were scary big.
Tonight's intruder was just a garden variety bug. Unless you are my W, in which case the devil himself appeared in HER bathroom. Guess that makes me the Exorcist.
I'm from New Orleans, they don't get any bigger than that. I am quite quick with the shoe. Also, if you pour dish detergent on them, that will kill them without spreading poison around. I had to get aggressive, as when I asked my husband to do it, he would sort of lightly tap the roach, and then it would scurry away, and he would report, "I scared it." Yeah, to go lay a million eggs. So I took over, and there always seemed to be at least one shoe lying around in every room.
Yeah, your answer should have been "No, I'm busy." Why wait for her to feel the reality of independence?
I'm from New Orleans, they don't get any bigger than that. I am quite quick with the shoe. Also, if you pour dish detergent on them, that will kill them without spreading poison around. I had to get aggressive, as when I asked my husband to do it, he would sort of lightly tap the roach, and then it would scurry away, and he would report, "I scared it." Yeah, to go lay a million eggs. So I took over, and there always seemed to be at least one shoe lying around in every room.
Very familiar with N.O. And I'll have to remember the detergent trick. Beats the pick em up with 100 wadded up paper towels trick.
Yeah, your answer should have been "No, I'm busy." Why wait for her to feel the reality of independence?
That occured to me after I was done. But, I would have looked like a jerk in front of the kids if I had not taken care of roachzilla.
gima,
I would have given her a shoe.
And a boot in the arse!
(Only kidding; couldn't resist!)
GIMA,
Reading through your thread, had to leave a comment about the small bird-like insects that are palmetto bugs since I live in the Palmetto state. I instantly had a flashback w/ my W. She is almost blind w/o her glasses and had not one but two in the shower w/ her. She pulled down the shower curtain bar and everything. (a few years ago)
Thanks for the support today.
GIMA -
You are a man of honor! I DETEST BUGS! All the rest of you guys can shut up.
GIMA,
Reading through your thread, had to leave a comment about the small bird-like insects that are palmetto bugs since I live in the Palmetto state. I instantly had a flashback w/ my W. She is almost blind w/o her glasses and had not one but two in the shower w/ her. She pulled down the shower curtain bar and everything. (a few years ago)
Thanks for the support today.
Will,
I can only imagine the wailing that would have been going on at my house!
Hey- I had the job of spider-killer in our house (we don't have cockroaches, thank god, I've never even seen one before)- where was my bugkiller-in-shining-armor?
Dia drive-by!
Catching up on your new thread. Hope you had a wonderful holiday.
Cheers!
Dia
Thanks Dia. Great to hear from you, and I hope all is going well with you.
Wish I could say the same for me, but I'm afraid I am at the point that I can no longer handle limboland. We are making NO progress, just existing. Time to shake things up a bit - who knows where that will lead to, but it's either closure (that she apparently refuses to move towards) or working on the M.
Would love your perspective.
GIMA,
I feel unfortunate to be part of your club. Right now, I can see myself where you are in the spring. Our W's doesn't realize how good they have it now. I suppose I need to totally detach if this tough love thing is going to work. I hope you can shake up things and your W sees the light soon. I'm here to support ya no matter what happens. Hang in there.
GIMA,
I feel unfortunate to be part of your club. Right now, I can see myself where you are in the spring. Our W's doesn't realize how good they have it now. I suppose I need to totally detach if this tough love thing is going to work. I hope you can shake up things and your W sees the light soon. I'm here to support ya no matter what happens. Hang in there.
Thanks Tridoc. I am here to help out as well as much as I can.
Just tired of DB'ing and waiting for something to happen. Time to MAKE something happen, whatever that is.
Sitting here looking at half-marathons I can do next year. I need a long range goal. I have done 1 marathon with a fun overuse injury (ilio-tibial band syndrome) in my knee and several halfs.
HMarys and Marys..... Sounds like a great goal. ITBS ..It sounds to me like you ramped up the milage too fast. A foam roller on the ITB helps a lot.
Start with the halfs the build slowly. Running is healthy and you get a big endorphin surge from it. You are on the right track. Keep thinking that way.
HMarys and Marys..... Sounds like a great goal. ITBS ..It sounds to me like you ramped up the milage too fast. A foam roller on the ITB helps a lot.
Start with the halfs the build slowly. Running is healthy and you get a big endorphin surge from it. You are on the right track. Keep thinking that way.
Definitely get the endorphine rush and the side benefits. History of heart disease and type II diabetes in my Dad's family (actually was the end of him) that I DO NOT plan to repeat.
Been a runner pretty much my whole life even though I am trapped in an ex-offfensive lineman's frame.
You are dead on on the cause of the ITBS -that is exactly what happened. Ramped up too quickly and knew better, but did it anyway. So, what else should I have expected.
Lost about 25 after the bomb - this D stuff will take it off. But, I want to drop another 15-20 in the next several months. Running and weight lifting regularly since the bomb. All good.
Warning - Running is bad on boobs!
Warning - Running is bad on boobs!
Not too worried about that one (or did I mean TWO).
Although, when I run in races, I like to use this particular problem as "motivation" to keep up.
Warning - Running is bad on boobs!
Midfull, I hope GIMA doesn't have to worry about that. If so, maybe a manbra like that Seinfeld episode would help :-)
Warning - Running is bad on boobs!
Midfull, I hope GIMA doesn't have to worry about that. If so, maybe a manbra like that Seinfeld episode would help :-)
The "BRO."
Man I miss Seinfeld.
And, no, I don't have to worry about that problem.
Hahahaha My D18 keeps threatening to get my H one... Just sayin'!
Hey, GIMA,
Slightly off topic... but keep in mind that if you are adding muscle (weightlifting) the scale may not move even though you are dropping fat. Also, not meaning to scare you off either one, but running (long distance) edges the body toward long, lean muscles and a very low bodyfat percentage (picture your average marathoner). Weight lifting edges the body toward larger, beefier muscles with less impact on bodyfat percentage (picture your average weightlifter, and understand that they have to diet like heck to get their bodyfat low enough for all those 'ripped' pics).
If you're doing both just because you love them, keep going. At some point, if you get serious about adding muscle, the running may inhibit that. If you want to drop the most poundage (w/o caring if it's fat or muscle), you may want to ease off on the weightlifting.
Hey, GIMA,
Slightly off topic... but keep in mind that if you are adding muscle (weightlifting) the scale may not move even though you are dropping fat. Also, not meaning to scare you off either one, but running (long distance) edges the body toward long, lean muscles and a very low bodyfat percentage (picture your average marathoner). Weight lifting edges the body toward larger, beefier muscles with less impact on bodyfat percentage (picture your average weightlifter, and understand that they have to diet like heck to get their bodyfat low enough for all those 'ripped' pics).
If you're doing both just because you love them, keep going. At some point, if you get serious about adding muscle, the running may inhibit that. If you want to drop the most poundage (w/o caring if it's fat or muscle), you may want to ease off on the weightlifting.
Thanks Dia. Actually just got back from the gym.
I played high school football and lifted a lot of free weights.
The weight lifting I'm doing now is higher reps, not as much weight, and it's on Cybex machines. Just trying to burn fat and tone up what I got. I play a lot of golf, so, I don't want to bulk up.
And, I know what you mean about weight lifting and the scale not moving. Muscle weighs more than fat from what I understand. But, even though the scale did not move much or has plateaued, I'm fitting into clothes I haven't for a while.
Always good hearing from you.
Hey, GIMA,
... but keep in mind that if you are adding muscle (weightlifting) the scale may not move even though you are dropping fat.
Dia's right here, gima:Musckle weighs more than fat.
Hey, GIMA,
... but keep in mind that if you are adding muscle (weightlifting) the scale may not move even though you are dropping fat.
Dia's right here, gima:Musckle weighs more than fat.
Ha, great mind's think alike. Here's a quote from my response to Dia:
Muscle weighs more than fat from what I understand.
Just for the stickler types...
1 lb of muscle weighs the same as 1 lb of fat.
1 lb of muscle takes up a lot less SPACE than 1 lb of fat.
Hey, GIMA,
... but keep in mind that if you are adding muscle (weightlifting) the scale may not move even though you are dropping fat.
Dia's right here, gima:Musckle weighs more than fat.
Ha, great mind's think alike. Here's a quote from my response to Dia:
Muscle weighs more than fat from what I understand.
Yeah, but at least you and dia know how to
spell "muscle"!
Just for the stickler types...
1 lb of muscle weighs the same as 1 lb of fat.
1 lb of muscle takes up a lot less SPACE than 1 lb of fat.
I knew this was coming. Like the old joke about which weighs more, 1 lb of feathers or 1 lb of iron?
I know what you are saying, and that was my point as well. Assuming equal volumes of muscle and fat, muscle would weigh more. Man, my head hurts.
Just for the stickler types...
1 lb of muscle weighs the same as 1 lb of fat.
1 lb of muscle takes up a lot less SPACE than 1 lb of fat.
yeah, yeah, yeah...
Back for only 30 minutes or so and already she's getting annoying!
Just for the stickler types...
1 lb of muscle weighs the same as 1 lb of fat.
1 lb of muscle takes up a lot less SPACE than 1 lb of fat.
yeah, yeah, yeah...
Back for only 30 minutes or so and already she's getting annoying!
ROFL!!!
Mostly I'm just twitching from my days on health and fitness boards where by now some 30 (well muscled!) people would have smacked me with 2x10s for saying anything remotely NEAR "fat weighs more than muscle'.
I figgered you guys knew what I meant.
They make these little devices that can measure your % of body fat. That way you'll know for sure.
Good to see you again Dia!
GIMA,
I feel unfortunate to be part of your club. Right now, I can see myself where you are in the spring. Our W's doesn't realize how good they have it now. I suppose I need to totally detach if this tough love thing is going to work. I hope you can shake up things and your W sees the light soon. I'm here to support ya no matter what happens. Hang in there.
TRIDOC:
my 2 cents,,
Don't just suppose... Detaching was/is one of the hardest things I have done/doing. Follow it up with a tough love approach and it is exceptionally hard... I have found that for me, GALing is by far the most effective way to approach those two concepts.. it won't happen overnight, and when it did begin to kick in, it seemed to build upon itself...
They make these little devices that can measure your % of body fat. That way you'll know for sure.
Good to see you again Dia!
<twitching again>
<trying to resist calipers vs. electrical impedance vs. water displacement debate>
<sweat breaks out on brow>
<calls her sponsor>
my 2 cents..
http://lowcarbdiets.about.com/library/blbodyfatcharts.htmthis chart is pretty close to ok...body fat charts can be notoriously confusing... I think the best way I can tell about me is the way my clothes fit...
Calipers are probably the most accurate way to go but it is subjective and you probably should have the same person perform the test each time to eliminate the technique differences...
there are some charts that measure more than the standard "three site pinch" test...
BTW, GIMA,
It may be cold comfort, but I think you are doing the right thing, and you are doing it with strength and honor. Your W needs to be married or not married. She doesn't get to be married-but-with-no-obligations-to-actually-ACT-married-or-be-in-an-active-and-loving-realtionship-with-my-spouse. That's called cake-eating.
You've given her ever reason and opportunity to choose 'married'. By default, she is choosing 'not married'.
You deserve more.
While I still hope it works out for the two of you, I htink you are on the right course.
Oh, and..
"It'll ride up with wear."
Dia,
<twitching again>
<trying to resist calipers vs. electrical impedance vs. water displacement debate>
<sweat breaks out on brow>
<calls her sponsor>
You are just so very Funny! Another reason I miss you so much around here (not that I've forgiven you for that raucous party you had at my place while I was gone a few months back, young lady!).
"It'll ride up with wear."
"And I am unanimous in that."
Good to hear from you Dia.
Tonight, W got an email from the mother of a little girl D6 was supposed to play with tomorrow. The little girl has a fever, so tomorrow isn't happening.
My D was inconsolable. Cried nearly uncontrollably.
And in the middle of this, I am fighting back the lump in my throat b/c I realize this is what it's going to be like when SHE tells the kids we are getting D'd. And I can't protect them from this. And then, I'm angry b/c, dammit, it doesn't have to be this way. But, I can't decide that anymore than I can protect the kids for what's coming.
Damn.
I'm not sad for myself any more. I'm just angry she will do this to the kids without so much as lifting a finger to work on the M.
I came back to my room and went through in my mind some of the things she has compared me to and said about me to her friends and me. And, I stopped in mid thought and asked myself, why do I want to be with her? Other than keeping our family intact, I have no answer.
...Other than keeping our family intact, I have no answer.
...and this is, in itself, a tough one.
...Other than keeping our family intact, I have no answer.
...and this is, in itself, a tough one.
Yeah. I know. And realize you probably do too.
Hope your trip with the boys was fun.
y room and went through in my mind some of the things she has compared me to and said about me to her friends and me. And, I stopped in mid thought and asked myself, why do I want to be with her? Other than keeping our family intact, I have no answer.
I'm thinking the same thing right now. I don't want the kids to suffer. I think they need a full time Mom and Dad. If that is how she is going to be then we have to have the serenity to accept things that we cannot change. I'm sure there are other women who are lonely out there now willing to step in and accept us for the men we are. Her loss.
I always hear that in 2 to 5 years the WAS regrets their actions.
y room and went through in my mind some of the things she has compared me to and said about me to her friends and me. And, I stopped in mid thought and asked myself, why do I want to be with her? Other than keeping our family intact, I have no answer.
I'm thinking the same thing right now. I don't want the kids to suffer. I think they need a full time Mom and Dad. If that is how she is going to be then we have to have the serenity to accept things that we cannot change. I'm sure there are other women who are lonely out there now willing to step in and accept us for the men we are. Her loss.
I always hear that in 2 to 5 years the WAS regrets their actions.
Yep. There's actually a study I read several months ago that compiled statistics on who recovered financially quicker who remarried first, etc. And the statistics showed men bounced back financially much quicker and remarried quicker - for both about 3-5 years. I think the study was cited in an article in Time a few months ago. I don't typically read Time, but the cover story was about D, so I read it. Pretty good article too.
I always hear that in 2 to 5 years the WAS regrets their actions.
This is pretty true. I'm seeing it in my xh now. He's actually using words that express that he now knows what he did was wrong, the choices he made were huge mistakes and he's miserable. Karma is a real PITA sometime.
All you can do is what is best for you without bringing too much damage to the kids. As long as you handle the D with honor and integrity like you have the rest of this then your kids will adjust very well to their new circumstances.
why do I want to be with her? Other than keeping our family intact, I have no answer.
That's the real question isn't it? It's difficult sorting out the love of your family from your M, since they are supposed to be one and the same. It's gotta be painful to see that they can be different(family/M).
I've spent a lot of time these past months reading about kids and divorce I'm sure we all do. Although it's sad that the divorce rate is around 50 percent, it does mean that your kids will be familiar with divorce from at least a few of their friends/classmates. Their generation seems to handle the divorce of the parents better than previous generations. When it's handled with honor and integrity (I liked mishka's reply!) your kids will at least learn from your example about handling tough times.
Sad that it takes 2-5 years for the WAS to have any regrets of their actions. I am sure there are some that never regret it but for those that do and the pain they cause their families it just sucks it takes that long for any remorse.
Well, the first couple of years are still spent in the euphoria of having a 'new life' full of changes and possibilities. All the years of being 'settled' felt like a burden to them and they are like a prison escapee. If there was an A in place then that is also when they are in the 'honeymoon' period of that new R and we all know what that is like. After a couple of years the bloom is off the rose and they start to realize that the 'new life' they though they created for themselves is nothing but the same pattern as the past with a different face on the 'source of their discontent'. That is typically when they start to realize that they are their own source of misery. It sets in that they tore apart a family because of their own selfishness and then they start to regret it. By then, it's usually too late for them to R with the LBS because they have moved forward in their life and have grown beyond the WAS.
I don't get it! Everyone around me is telling me my WAH will regret it. Big time! Why does it have to take 2-5 years? I have started the detachment....no rings, taken down all pics of him (including wedding). Scary but reality I guess
I have started the detachment....no rings, taken down all pics of him (including wedding). Scary but reality I guess
That's not detachment. Detachment is allowing yourself to let go of responsibility for his actions and reactions.
Here is a good article about detachment:
http://www.livestrong.com/article/14712-developing-detachment/(I'm crossposting to your thread so we can stop hijacking this one...)
(I'm crossposting to your thread so we can stop hijacking this one...)
Not a problem guys.
GIMA, you asked over on C-Bart's thread whether I had an L and isn't that what he's for.
I'm seeing him on Wednesday. Today, on the phone he warned me that for me to get joint physical custody, W has to agree to it. If she doesn't, judges in my county won't order it. They'll pick one parent or the other for a "home base" and the other gets visitation. He said usually the W wins in that case.
So it sounds like I have to talk to W about it outside of attorneys.
different face on the 'source of their discontent'. That is typically when they start to realize that they are their own source of misery. It sets in that they tore apart a family because of their own selfishness and then they start to regret it.
Yep, that says it all. Love is a choice. A happy marriage is a choice. The WAS blames the LBS for the problem when they need to look in the mirror.
My W went to one counseling session with me and had her a$$ handed to her. She didn't believe what he was telling her. She refuses to go back.Too bad.
Hope you had a good day GIMA!
My W went to one counseling session with me and had her a$$ handed to her. She didn't believe what he was telling her. She refuses to go back.Too bad.
And that MAY be one of the reasons my W is avoiding any "reconciliation counseling" like the plague. Reasons why don't change her decision though.
Thanks tridoc.
Well, everyone. My W has filed the D action. A process server showed up at my office about an hour ago to serve me with the Complaint today. She couldn't even give me the courtesy of asking if I would simply acknowledge service of teh Complaint.
Pretty shaken up right now. I will handle it, but wow. I just have to get through today.
((((GIMA))))
I am sorry my friend...So very sorry.
If you were by me I would join you for a drink tonight...
We are here for you - Don't forget that.
(((((Hugs)))))
I am sorry. I think many of us can relate to the feeling of being handed D papers via a process server. Of course you will handle it and there is nothing wrong with feeling a bit shaken. Just take a bit of time to collect yourself, feel what you need to feel then formulate a plan.
You will get through today and if you feel like you can't... post here and we will support you through the rough patches.
So sorry to hear that GIMA. You know that you have done all you can to try and salvage the R/M. You know that you have done it with strength and honro. You also know that you were heading down this path due to being in limbo for so long.
Hold your head high for all that you have done to try to save your R/M and all the help you give others on this board to help save theirs.
Wow GIMA. I don't know what to say. That move took me by surprise. I can't even imagine how it affected you.
(((GIMA)))
GIMA
I wish I had something to say to make it all better but we all know it doesn't work that way. What I can tell you is that from all the support and advice I have seen you give to everyone else as well as what you have overcome in your own stich you are a awesome individual who had nothing to be ashamed of. If I was you I would go look in a mirror and be proud of what you see.
Hang in there bud.
GIMA,
Oh man, I'm so sorry. That really is a downer. I know it is hard to do right now but try to think about something positive. Get in a workout. The forum has prepared you well for this moment. You have a huge support system here. I wish I could have a beer with you too. Keep your head up you will make it. It's her loss!!!
GIMA, You will handle it with Strength and Honor.
Coach
I have an idea! When you get home put one of those icky bugs in her shoe
Note: I am kidding!
GIMA, I know where you are at right now, and also know you will handle it.
You have done everything you can your M with dignity, grace, and honor, but it takes two.
Now is the time to go dark, focus on YOU and your kids. Get your L involved early.
Acknowledge and accept your emotions on what has happened, and where you are.
There is no way to accurately put into a forum posting how I hope, wish and pray for you and your family for Peace and a better future.
Keep moving forward buddy! You can do it!
GIMA, I'm sorry dude. I'd send you hugs... but I'm a man ... and you're a man... and we just don't do dat.
I know you will handle it. Best way to do that is to "get busy".
EDIT:
With nothing left to say, I'd like to remind you of your frame of mind about 2 hours before getting served:
But, I stepped back and looked at it like this. Either she's going to D me or wake up, right? If she D's me, what does it matter what her reaction is? In that case, she's already decided she isn't my W anymore. In which case, in XX months time, looking back on this as a single person, I won't care what her reaction was.
Thanks everyone. Pretty big blow today. But, I WILL handle it and make it through this. You guys here have been more help to me than you can ever imagine (but, you DO understand how much you mean to me b/c many of you have been or are where I am right now).
Today is my dad's birthday (he passed away in 2003). So, this wasn't the best day for this to happen, but there is never a good time for it to happen.
I have called my C to make an appointment. I will go home tonight and be a MAN. Which means I will not show any weakness to her (at this point she doesn't deserve that pleasure).
I will enjoy my children then get some sleep. And I'm banking on the sun coming up to morrow. I will then move forward on retaining an attorney. And stay busy.
I will probably need to lean on you guys more than I have in a while, but I will keep moving forward. For me and for my kids.
Thank you all for your support. I don't know where I would be today without this place.
((((((((((( GIMA )))))))))))
You are in my thoughts. Def try to get some rest tonight.
Gima, I edited my post above... but see now you didn't need it...
I'll be here and in the "alt" buddy and doing whatever I can to help.
I'm really sorry to hear your news, GIMA- you're in my thoughts. You have tons of support from friends who care, and at this point, you have a lot of virtual beers headed your way...
Hugs-
Bunny
Gima, sorry to hear about your latest news. This is the definition of suck.
Keep your head high knowing you did and will continue to do your best.
I have been thinking about you and I hope that all went well when you got home. I hope that you focused on spending time with the kids and all in all had a decent night.
Try to get some sleep tonight and know that alot of people have you in their prayers.
How are you? How was it walking in the door at home? Don't keep us in suspenders!
Greek (w/Coach looking over my shoulder
)
GIMA,
you have helped so many on these boards with your advice and guidance, including me.
My thoughts are with you tonight as you navigate through this journey.
Greek, Coach and all,
Weird walking in tonight but I'm holding my own. Fighting back some anger and resentment. I just can't even look at her. She hasn't said a word about it. Neither have I. I haven't said anything to her.
At this point, do I even mention the filing or not? I don't care about it at this point. Still surprised she decided to go this route the WAY she did. Just hurtful.
Thinking of just heading back to my bedroom.
She just turned in for the night. On her way by, she half whispered almost in an almost crying (sort of) "good night.". I just have nothing to say to her. She is no longer my W. Her decision.
Am I nuts to be surprised she made enough dinner for me as well. Somehow, I just couldn't eat it. Made something else for myself.
For someone so seemingly sure of herself, she sounds defeated. No pity from me.
(((GIMA)))
You are in my prayers my friend.
After W went to her bedroom, I let the dogs out and went to my bedroom. Much easier to post from a laptop than a cell phone.
I am still amazed not that she filed, but the way she did it and had me served.
I dealt well with my anger and resentment. I just couldn't even look at her. The thought of being in the same room with her right now is unpleasant.
I spoke to the kids and made a lot of extra effort to be near them, hug them, kiss them and just be a dad. She can't take that from me.
Maybe the sadness will hit me a little later. Right now, I'm just angry and unbelievably disappointed in the way she is proceeding. But, if she wants real, it's about to get real.
((((GIMA)))
I just read about today's developments.
Our prayers are with you.
Focus on yourself and your kids right now.
KARA
Sorry this happened, GIMA. But it's not over yet. Don't let anger overcome your good sense.
GIMA, ah heck what Gnosis thinks, a brotherly hug ain't nothin' to be ashamed of! (((GIMA)))
Yups it sucks. As if all that had happened did not already communicate clearly the lack of respect, regard, connection that the 2 of you should be having. Think of it as perhaps W not having the guts to face you or the reality of the situation. Kind of like disregard via proxy. While it's still nothing good, that's easier to understand that an outright decision to coldly kick you when you're down.
Your feelings are all only too human and understandable. You've always conducted yourself with dignity. You know all too well how unbridled, unreasoning anger and resentment will go. I'm sure you'll feel what you have to feel, deal with it, and take it on as the good man you are.
Thanks everyone. I really appreciate the prayers and thoughts.
Just processing what I'm feeling. No way I'm showing any of what I feel to W. For a change, she will have to guess what's going on with me.
@Deep, I think you are quite correct. She simply did not have what it took to confront me and discuss the best way out. It's much easier to hire someone to do the dirty work for her.
But, when all this is over, and she has her new life, she will be puzzled when her unhappiness does not leave her. She can't D her own feelings. And for that, I feel sadness for her. Which sounds crazy given what she has now done.
I was actually surprised she said good night to me tonight. It didn't mean anything to me though.
GIMA - As I told you in the alt, you have my full support and my ear whenever you need it.
Keep your RL friends very close to you also. You will need their support and commraderie now more than ever. D is a very nasty business especially if you can't get your mind off of it for a while to blow some steam.
GIMA, thoughts are with you.
Cas
GIMA,
My thoughts and prayers are with you. As others have said you have handled yourself with dignity and she can't take that from you.
Thinking of you lots (())
(((GIMA)))
I got up to see the sunrise again however it is still dark
...
Thoughts of you on my mind so I wanted to make sure you are doing ok my friend.
I hope you slept peacefully last night.
(((GIMA)))
I got up to see the sunrise again however it is still dark
...
Thoughts of you on my mind so I wanted to make sure you are doing ok my friend.
I hope you slept peacefully last night.
Thank you. Sounds very peaceful.
I was able to sleep last night. Had that moment when I woke up when there were no thoughts or memories about D or yesterday's events, then, all of it came back. Damn. Reality.
I read a devotional every morning and it never ceases to amaze me the timeliness of the lesson. This morning was based on Matthew 6:25-34 and the message was don't worry about tomorrow. Just deal with today. God will provide for tomorrow. Wow.
Still sorting through my emotions. I'm not hurt/angry/resentful that she filed, but I am about the way she did it. No warning, and having me served at my office? In front of my co-workers. I didn't think she would stopp to that low level. What in the world did she think she would gain by doing this, other than simply trying to inflict the maximum amount of pain/hurt to me? Simply is no other reason. But, she has to live with that.
Thank you all for your support. It really helps. It is very humbling that people I have never met in person are willing to take the time to think of my situation, pray for me, and encourage me. Thank you from the bottom of my heart.
I'm not hurt/angry/resentful that she filed, but I am about the way she did it. No warning, and having me served at my office? In front of my co-workers. I didn't think she would stopp to that low level. What in the world did she think she would gain by doing this, other than simply trying to inflict the maximum amount of pain/hurt to me?
Hey GIMA,
It's understandable that the way it was done is upsetting to you. Just keep your head up high today. Tomorrow will worry about itself, like the lesson said. Hugs.
Still sorting through my emotions. I'm not hurt/angry/resentful that she filed, but I am about the way she did it. No warning, and having me served at my office? In front of my co-workers. I didn't think she would stopp to that low level. What in the world did she think she would gain by doing this, other than simply trying to inflict the maximum amount of pain/hurt to me? Simply is no other reason. But, she has to live with that.
I know it sucks and it is hard, but who cares why she did it? I do suspect it was mostly out of fear on her part. She is afraid that if she tries to talk to you about it, you would either react with anger or try to stop her. That being said, it is worth bringing up to her that the way she did it was pretty classless for someone who has known you x years. Then you have to put it to her, are we going to do this the easy way or the hard way? Do you want to get real or just pour money away through lawyers?
GIMA,
Keep the PMA, I know it is hard and easy to get bogged down in negativity. I fight this daily, it ebbs and flows. But you will be ok, this is your time to get better.
It sucks in all possible ways, but keep on keepin on.
The WAW will have to live with her own guilt and someday answer for her actions elsewhere, but that is not your concern.
Be the best person you can be.
Keep telling yourself you are strong, confident, fearless. Think about before you met her, didn't you feel this way??
Feel it again.
GIMA - Wow. Truly, Limbo NO MO! HUGS and a PRAYER!! She sucks for serving you at the office. Probably a good thing not to eat her cooking!
GIMA,
Keep your head up today. Get in a workout today no matter how crappy you feel. It will release endorphins which will make you feel better. Continue to keep your faith and trust in the Lord. God has a plan for you. Time heals all wounds.
Have a good day bro !
Look at it this way, your wife could have served you at your office because she was too ashamed to do it herself. My wife did it herself but she had her mother there for support.
My wife is still cold as ice though and nothing is going to stop her from divorcing me. I am going with it now.
GIMA, my H had his lawyer contact me re: a separation agreement at my place of work so I can somewhat relate.
SMILE today!
(((GIMA)))
I hope this resonates somewhere within you and settles your troubled heart a little bit.
"Blessed is the man who perseveres under trial, because when he has stood the test, he will receive the crown of life that God has promised to those who love him."
James 1:12
It is terribly hurtful to be served papers be it at your home or place of employment. My attny had a saying that I really tried to remember ALL the time.... "you only have to get served once", "you only have to sign this document once" and so on.
It is a horrible feeling. It stinks out loud. The silver lining? You will NEVER have to experience it again. It is now an event for the history books.
Today will be a good day for you. You have tons of support here and lots of good and caring thoughts being sent your way.
And, while this is a leap perhaps she had you served at work so the children did not have to witness a process server coming to the house. Either way it is a terrible feeling but remember - it will NEVER happen again!
::::::::::::::::::good vibes::::::::::::::::::::::
<did ya catch the good vibes?>
Good points CG.
GIMA, if it helps at all, I was served at my office, in front of all of my coworkers, by a sherrif's deputy that I KNEW (xh was a cop in a local city at the time and had been with the sherrif's before that). He served me with a rather disgusted look on his face and a lot of "I'm so sorry's". He knew about the A.
Hi GIMA. I'm sorry friend, I do know the feeling. I want to share something with you that CIPA sent me after my wife served me with divorce papers...it was food for thought for me, and I hope it's food for thought for you. Incidentally, it is valid and very tue in my case...
"I know this may be hard to stomach, but a Divorce is about destruction. It's sad to fathom, but it's about the destruction of everything you and your WAW has created.
It's hard to imagine, but my cousin told me that I need to treat her as the enemy. This is the war where there are no winners. What we need to focus on now is how to minimize the fall out on the innocent (the children).
So what I'm focusing on is how to make sure the boys and I are as whole as possible after the destruction of what was built up over the past decade. We can't save it all, but we can make sure the future for us and our boys will be the best.
We owe this for ourselves as well as our boys. Get a good lawyer that can help keep your emotions in check and treat this as a business negotiations.
Things are screwed up because of the choices the WAW had made. Whatever role we had played, we have tried to atone for our mistakes. In the end, nothing we say or do now will hurt more than when our children cast their own judgement on what really caused the divorce.
Stay strong and protect yourself and your children.." - CIPA
This stuff is a b!tch GIMA, it's painful to the core. But I don't see any way 'around' it...it's something that, when it happens, we gotta go 'through'. Good luck, man.
(((GIMA)))
Just checking back in to see how you are doing today...
I watch this when I feel like I am swirling about in turmoil, I hope it brings you the same peace it brings me.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CT7x3VnrqbA&NR=1
Hey GIMA,
Just wanted to check and see how your day was. Keep your head high.
Hey GIMA,
Just checking in to see how you're doing
Cas
GIMA - I just caught up on what happened and I am very sorry. Take heart in the fact that you did all you can and didn't lift a finger to end your M - she did. You can go to your grave knowing that you did everything you can and can look your kids in the eyes and know that this is true as well. You did right by them.
The thing that makes me stop short of filing is that little voice inside of me that says 'what if you did a, b, or c, first to see if it made a difference', where one of the choices is wait just a few weeks longer (maybe a miracle will happen). I am afraid of having regrets.
If WAW files for D then we are 'off the hook' so to speak as far as possibly having regrets for not trying something else or waiting longer, even though we know waiting in the same state doesnt' solve anything.
You were headed here anyway except for the pause for the holidays, but at least you can take a little comfort in these points hopefully. If you were headed here anyway then this is probably the better way to go (her driving, not you) since you never wanted a D (it is our last choice as DB'ers).
Guys,
Thank you all for the well wishes. I have been busy today. I am homw now. I'm still sifting through all the emotions I have.
My step father called me tonight - understandably, he's worried about me. He is my shining example of honor in the face of D. He M'd my mother (2nd M for them both). My mother has some severe mental issues (mostly bi-polar and massive anxiety disorder), and she really put him through the ringer during the M and D. To this day, he has never utterred any negative comment about my mother.
And tonight, I got to tell him how much I admired him and how he set an example I hope I can follow - that's my plan. It really meant a lot to me to be able to tell him. There are so many things I would have like to have told my biological father but never did before he passed away. Despite where I am right now, I will not forget tonight.
I am handling it. That's not to say I don't cycle from pain to anger to resentment to resolve. I have faith that with time this will get easier. And I know it will. I just need to speed up time. Anyone got a tip for that?!
You guys are great and have really helped me. I monitored my thread all day, and everyone's well wishes lifted my spirits. Thanks guys.
GIMA,
I want you to know from my perspective, that you are a wonderful role model. You have helped so many, including myself.
You carried yourself with grace and dignity throughout, and that to me, is admirable under the circumstances.
One Day at a Time GIMA.
GIMA,
I want you to know from my perspective, that you are a wonderful role model. You have helped so many, including myself.
You carried yourself with grace and dignity throughout, and that to me, is admirable under the circumstances.
One Day at a Time GIMA.
Thanks buddy. Sorry I haven't posted much today. I'm getting my legs back under me, then I'll be back. I hope you are hanging in there.
My wife filed on me way back in April and yes, it does get easier. I am almost looking forward to it being final at this point. Know this, everyone on this board is here because they cared enough, their spouses do not. We are exceptional people! You are a good man GIMA!
We are exceptional people!
Oh yes we sure are!
(((GIMA)))
You have been in my thoughts all day and will be in my prayers tonight.
We are exceptional people!
Oh yes we sure are!
(((GIMA)))
You have been in my thoughts all day and will be in my prayers tonight.
Thanks viol1n and serenity. It really helps. Helps with the feeling I'm alone (which comes and goes).
Keep praying serentiy (I know you will). I will do the same for you and everyone else going through this awful experience.
Gima,
I just caught up. I'm sorry. Sorry that it happened the way it did and the place it did. I'm even sorry that you didn't get the satisfaction of serving her first.
I look forward to watching you handle this with the strength, honor, compassion and manliness that you have handled everything these many months and all the while posting and chiming and helping more people on this board than most of us put together.
I am honored to have come to know a man like you and I look forward to meeting you some day (something I am - and have been - determined to do. And will)
Sincerely,
Gardener makes a good point about not being able to file first. From now on you have to be the first one to act GIMA. The first to split the family photos, the first to split your property, the first to cancel credit cards, put the utility bills in your name, etc. etc. I learned a few months ago that if I did this I felt alot better. It hurts soo much more if the WAW does all of those things FIRST.
Gima,
I just caught up. I'm sorry. Sorry that it happened the way it did and the place it did. I'm even sorry that you didn't get the satisfaction of serving her first.
I look forward to watching you handle this with the strength, honor, compassion and manliness that you have handled everything these many months and all the while posting and chiming and helping more people on this board than most of us put together.
I am honored to have come to know a man like you and I look forward to meeting you some day (something I am - and have been - determined to do. And will)
Sincerely,
Thanks G. I am trying to get back in the game. I will.
Damn emotions are making it hard though. But, I will get through it. My progress has just been slowed down a bit temporarily.
And, I hope to meet you too someday.
GIMA,
Hang in there buddy, you have certainly fought the good fight and can feel good that you have done everything you can. Will keep you in prayer, tomorrow is a new day, the sun will rise and your life will continue on and your life will be great.
I'm just catching up here. I'm so sorry to see your recent changes.
Its surprising that she wouldn't want to separate for a whilr before going for the big D. I don't think WAS's know the sense of loss they will feel on e they come back from their mental abyss.
I agree with the others. You can hold your head high and be proud of your actions. Thoughts and prayers out to you and your family tonight.
It really helps. Helps with the feeling I'm alone (which comes and goes).
A wise man once told me that this feeling or fear of being alone is unreasonable.
Oh wait. That wise man was you.
I can understand this 'alone' feeling because it comes and goes for me too. But, you will never be alone. Just look up.
Besides, you will always have us too.
It really helps. Helps with the feeling I'm alone (which comes and goes).
A wise man once told me that this feeling or fear of being alone is unreasonable.
Oh wait. That wise man was you.
I can understand this 'alone' feeling because it comes and goes for me too. But, you will never be alone. Just look up.
Besides, you will always have us too.
I should have been clearer. I am not worried about being single. What I meant was I feel alone in standing my ground in the face of the D filing. I will make it through, but it is something I will have to face by myself. But, I'm strong enought to handle it.
You are strong enough to handle it as you have been a picture of strength this whole time.
Hey GIMA,
I just found out about your situation. Hang in there man! I am really surprised that your W had the courage to file for divorce. I figured that you would be the one to lead out of limboland...but it doesn't really matter who files first.
As I reflect about my situation as well as every other situation I've read on this forum, it becomes very clear to me that we really never had a chance in saving our marriages. DBing was only about saving ourselves! GIMA, you did save yourself. You're a better person today than you were 10 months ago. I predict that we will both approach our wives one day and thank them for dropping the bomb on us b/c we deserved it at the time. They woke us up! I'm not saying that our wives were blameless in the marriage, but we are now keenly aware of where WE went wrong.
We will not repeat our mistakes in our next relationships. I pray that one day I may be fortunate enough to meet the next Mrs Right. I hope the same for you my friend. In the meantime, focus on self-care and your beautiful children. You will always be their father, whether you're divorced or not.
Best Regards,
LFH
Thanks guys. As usual, everyone here always picks me up.
This morning, I had a conversation with my W to discuss the D filing. I could no longer carry around the anger and had a few things to say.
I won't go through the blow by blow, but the upshot of the conversation was that she filed because, W says, I have been condescending and "talked down" to her ever since the bomb so she "couldn't have a conversation with me." That people file D's every day and remain friends for the sake of the children. W's demeanor the entire time of this discussion was one of utter disrespect with lots of anger and eye rolling. I told her I was disappointed in her for filing and having me served at my office. She thought since she wasn't having a sheriff's deputy serve me, she was being "respectful."
The coups de gras was when she told me she was at peace with her decision b/c God was leading her down this path. And, at that point, it became incredibly clear how far gone she is. I have no doubt she truly believes God is telling her to walk out on our M and to break up the family. I feel very sad for her. But, I can't save someone who doesn't think there is any problem or who does not want help.
On the way to work after our discussion, I found it odd how peaceful I felt. Surely, I should be feeling some negative emotion. But,I didn't. Perhaps I needed to hear the words out of her mouth and to see the utter contempt she displays for me, but I now know she sees me as unworthy of even simply politeness. And that is just unacceptable.
I will continue moving forward with more peace that I have done everything I could to save our family and M. As she said in the conversation this morning, her message has been the same since telling me she wanted a D. While I have a different view of that, it is clear from the date of the bomb, W never had any true desire to work on our M. She sees happiness on the other side of this. I know what awaits her, and it isn't pretty.
Hey GIMA,
Have you ever watched the movie Madagascar with your kids?
"Smile and wave fellas...smile and wave."
Don't pay attention to anything your W says at this point. She's simply justifying D to herself. Simply obtain the services of an attorney and proceed forward. You have your answer...your wife wants out...so let her out. Going forward, everything you say to your W must be said in terms of "what's best for the children." Never get angry or lose your cool. The light is at the end of the tunnel my friend.
-LFH
Hey GIMA,
Have you ever watched the movie Madagascar with your kids?
"Smile and wave fellas...smile and wave."
Don't pay attention to anything your W says at this point. She's simply justifying D to herself. Simply obtain the services of an attorney and proceed forward. You have your answer...your wife wants out...so let her out. Going forward, everything you say to your W must be said in terms of "what's best for the children." Never get angry or lose your cool. The light is at the end of the tunnel my friend.
-LFH
Thanks buddy. I will keep walking and I'll get there. The children are my highest priority at this point.
Hey GIMA,
Find the latest thread from Ready2Change. He wrote a very inspiring post regarding life one year after his divorce.
-LFH
Hey GIMA,
Pretty new around here, but I'm struck by how well you're handling the unexpected, and I know that you'll be left standing tall when all is said and done. You've stayed true to yourself, gave it everything you had, and maintained dignity and grace. A mentor of mine once said that "its OK to be uncomfortable" every now and then, but I think I saw Coach say it better somewhere on here when he said "embrace the suck".
As a product of parents who D'd when I was 5, I can tell you that everytime you do the right thing now for GIMA and for your kids, it will pay off a hundredfold down the line.
Hang in there.
...she filed because, W says, I have been condescending and "talked down" to her ever since the bomb so she "couldn't have a conversation with me."
Oh really? I think not, but everyone is entitled their own opinion.
On the way to work after our discussion, I found it odd how peaceful I felt.
I am glad that you have found peace.
I will continue moving forward with more peace that I have done everything I could to save our family and M.
And you will never reget that.
Thanks guys.
I think it was easier for me not to lose my temper and argue with W this morning b/c I have read in other sitch's just about everything she said.
Even though my W doesn't realize it, I KNOW how confused she must be. Her justifications are just transparent. And it's clear to me what she's doing.
That doesn't make it hurt any less. But, there is some comfort in understanding what is going on.
I hope that peaceful feeling stays with you GIMA.
I hope that peaceful feeling stays with you GIMA.
It's up to me to make sure it does.
And I'm sure everyones' thoughts and prayers are helping.
GIMA,
I can only hope that I can carry myself forward with the same grace and dignity that you have.
You sir, are a Rock Star!!
GIMA,
I can only hope that I can carry myself forward with the same grace and dignity that you have.
You sir, are a Rock Star!!
Can't tell you I feel like one. But, thank you.
I will try to check out your progress some tomorrow before I leave for out of town. Just needed some time away to re-group.
That, and I've been "embracing the suck."
I will continue moving forward with more peace that I have done everything I could to save our family and M.
simple and inspiring. thank you GIMA.
As I reflect about my situation as well as every other situation I've read on this forum, it becomes very clear to me that we really never had a chance in saving our marriages.
Are you sure of that?
No one here gave in to their pain or anger or resentment and said things that made the situation worse?
No one played mind games on or tried to manipulate their spouse to try to stir feelings of jealousy or uncertainty, only to have them blow up in their face?
No one succumbed to the temptation to demonize their spouses?
No one decided that their spouses' motivation to work on the R was spurred by rejection from the OP, or an attempt to screw them over in a divorce?
No one was so convinced of their own moral or ethical superiority that they couldn't forgive?
Because I've seen all of that, all over the place.
I've seen people say any number of variations of:
"I know I screwed up
but I just couldn't help myself."
"They may be mad, but oh well, it was their choice to go."
"Sure, I made a promise to them, but they made a promise to be faithful to me."
"I'm just giving them a taste of their own medicine."
"I have to look out for myself, first."
"Cheaters don't deserve any sympathy, they made their choice."
"Why should I try to hold on to someone who doesn't want to be with me?"
Trent, frankly I see nothing wrong with variations of a couple of the statements you quoted there.
GIMA, enjoy your time away, hope it helps your PMA!
And maybe there is nothing wrong. All of our situations are different, and we and our spouses react differently. What may make things worse for one couple may be a breakthrough for another.
But a recurring theme of a lot of those statements is lack of empathy or understanding of what the WAS is going through. As I said to knittedscarf, many walk-away spouses are not 100% committed to leaving; they may have barely screwed up the courage to say they were leaving. That's part of the DB'ing process; if you can show them that they are wrong about the situation, or about your willingness to change, then they may reconsider staying.
Oh, I agree with you from that perspective Trent. All of us have personal decisions to make at many different points, and forgiveness can probably be one of the most problematic among them. The adage that it's for one's own good comes across hollow for some.
I would say that for some folks ... perhaps GIMA, Serenity among them e.g., really they might do better "embracing the suck" and accept it's no point chasing the cheeseless tunnel of wanting to be with someone who does not want to be with them, or even worse, verge on abusing them.
Cheers.
Iced in here where I am and I just couldn't sleep.
@Trent, I completey agree with your post.
@Deep, I completely agree with your post.
Trent, whether it's out of the LBS' pain/hurt/anger, it is common for the LBS not to understand that, in most (nearly all?), cases, the LBS has difficulty understanding and accepting that the WAS is hurting too. In my case, I knew my W was (and I believe still is) hurting, but initially, my own pain/hurt/sense of rejection was si strong, I had to fight through that to see my W's POV and try to understand what she MAY have been going through. That takes time and a willingness to overcome.
If a LBS is trying to DB, and they cannot understand their S is also hurting, scared, in pain, then I don't think they are DB'ing, as I see that as an integral part of this process. Whether it brings the WAS back or not is beside the point. I think it is more important to accept that this person who is D'ing you IS hurting. Otherwise, the LBS cannot unload their hurt, which inevitably will manifest itself as anger and resentment towards the WAS. I do not want to carry around that anchor the rest of my life. It isn't healthy for me or for my kids.
And, Deep, I do agree with you that in my case, I have done all I can do. All I can do at this point is to continue to lead out of this limbo existence. That means doing my best to show compassion and love while, at the same time, protecting myself. Maybe my W follows my lead, but, in all likelihood, that will not happen. None of us knows the future (not even including the WAS), so I think it is important to leave the door to reconciliation cracked just enough that if the WAS chooses to open it, we can say "Hello." Hopefully, the versions of our S we fell in love with will be the ones trying to open the door.
Made it to my hometown where I'm visiting for the weekend. Staying at a lake house and I'm really looking forward to waking up with a view of the lake. The solitude is nice.
Had dinner with some of my family. They are concerned for me and the kids.
On the way down, W actually sent me pictures of the kids playing she took with her phone and sent me some txts to ask how my drive was going and to tell me a party she was supposed to go to tomorrow was cancelled. This from a woman who had me served with a D petition on Tuesday?! I don't get it. And I'm not biting. I responded with a simple "ok."
It's getting stranger by the day.
(((Deep)))
... perhaps GIMA, Serenity among them e.g., really they might do better "embracing the suck" and accept it's no point chasing the cheeseless tunnel of wanting to be with someone who does not want to be with them, or even worse, verge on abusing them.
I have to "embrace the suck"?
I am not sure I know what that means nor do I like the sound of that.
(((GIMA)))
You are sounding better by the day my friend - Good for you! Have a wonderful stay at the lakehouse.
Thanks Serenity. I usually go out to the dock in the mornings with a cup of coffee and watch the sun come up. So, of course, I thought of you! I'll try to post some pics in the alt.
Good grief!
She REALLY DOESN'T GET IT!!!!
D is D. Down to every last detail. It was nice of her to send pics of the kids, but didn't you just leave them? Were they doing something out of the ordinary in their play? If not, then why send the pics? She has no business asking how your drive is going, reporting what is going on in her life. M'd people do that, D'd or S'd people don't.
It's almost as if she is dangling a carrot in front of you called 'family interaction' just so she can reel you in a little at a time only to cut the line while you're gasping for breath and plunge you back in the open ocean. Good heavens!
Sorry for the fishing analogy.
Just keep staying as dark as you possible can.
Enjoy the lake and the peace and quiet. You deserve it.
Hope you didn't hit much ice on your drive down. It's still pretty nasty around here tonight.
Awww Sweet - I love watching the sun come up
Don't know where the alt. is and still trying to figure out why I am embracing the suck - Wanna clue me in since you are iced in and probably bored talking to yourself (no worries I do it to lol)?
Mishka,
Drive was no problem. But its really cold here too.
I don't know what my W is thinking. Its as if she wants to be D'd one minute, then wants to return to an intact family the next. I'm not on that thrill ride anymore and won't jump at her offerings. She left me so we are not a family anymore. My family is me and the kids.
The kids were just playing at a playground. Nothing warranting sending me pics. A nice gesture, but don't try to buddy up and strike up a conversation. You forfeited that right. And, no, I don't care what she's doing tomorrow night. Why would I care? So, why tell me?
GIMA,
I have been following along, I have a few questions:
In my sitch, I KNOW my W is hurting, I understand and accept that. If the WAS is hurting so bad, what keeps them from doing whatever it takes to heal that pain?
In my sitch, my W opened up to me-well, it SEEMED that way, and then completely boarded up that house after I left.
Was this her way of validating what she was doing? Did she FEEL better after reeling me back in, and then causing me more pain with her 180?
Didn't mean to hijack, just wanted to weigh in and maybe get some help.
Thanks for your input.
Serenity,
Do you FB?if so, do a search on GivingIt MyAll.
Embracing the suck, I think means letting your emotions run their course. You allow it to run its course b/c you can handle it.
God never gives us more than we can handle.
(((GIMA)))
Thank you for the explanation - I can't FB - Makes me ill just going there (H met the OW there) and I promised Puppy I would stay off...Ok well then I can embrace the suck
No He sure doesn't and I for one am glad He never gives it to us all at once either lol!
Hi SD.
Ok, the WAS is hurting. The way I have best seen this explained is that they only see one option (D) b/c the pain of staying is greater than the pain of leaving. So, they do have pain, but to them, the remedy is to leave what they perceive is the source of that pain - the M.
As far as why your W acted like all was well, then did an about face, I don't know. Maybe to gain an advantage in the D from a legal standpoint. Maybe she was lonely. Who knows.
GIMA,
thanks. I need to let go of the "why" stuff. If you don't mind, I will look you up on FB soon.
Thanks again.
Serenity,
I understand. I am not big into fb either.
GIMA ~
I used to have a MS however H met his high school GF there...
Then the middle school GF on FB so now I avoid all of them lol..
Keeps me saner that way
SD,
Feel free to look me up.
The "why" question will haunt you. Its normal, but if you can get past that, it gets easier.
Whenever I got too much into the "why," I invariably focused on the worst case scenario and only ended up spinning myself into further worry. Very non-productive.
95% of what we worry about never comes true.
Serenity,
I understand. I never ventured into MS or any of the other sites.
GIMA ~
I used to have a MS however H met his high school GF there...
Then the middle school GF on FB so now I avoid all of them lol..
Keeps me saner that way
I created an alter ego on FB that isn't tied to my actual FB account at all. So I don't see stuff for the "real me" and no one sees what my psuedonym is up to.
Shows her ambiguity = or perhaps her guilt? Who knows. I think you are spot on to take some solitude and not respond. LRT = going dark. She has to live with her decision now.
Or, you could look at it as, hey, at least she is respecting your love for your children by sending you pictures?
I took a few days in the mountains with my S5 this week and the solitude got me really grounded for whatever comes. I am more detached than ever. I got rejuvenated and reconnected with my inner strength. Being surrounded by nature (I was also by a serene lake) reminded me of god's love and I just kept repeating "Thine will, not mine, be done."
Hope you also get some peace and inner strength during your time away.
Just got your message over on my place. I've got to take a break, but I'll be back later and catch up. I did grab one bit that I saw a quote you made about W saying you talked down to her. I have read tons of posts from you and the worst thing I ever heard you say was that Sandi could be a bit sarcastic....
Sweetie, I can't imagine you talking down to anyone especially the woman you adore. As you've heard me say before, it is some of the junk a WAW has to come up with to sling in the face of her H so she won't feel so rotten. She is trying to make herself believe her own lies.
I'll talk to you in a while. Got to take a break from the computer.
Sandi,
Thanks for checking in on me and I really do want to hear your take. I could have said you were very direct with your advice (which I like and think is a very good thing) but I don't recall saying you were sarcastic. If I did, I'm sure you know I meant it in a very ppositive way.
I completely agree that my W is in full WAS mode right now and is saying things she knows are untrue to try to convince herself what she is doing is ok. I know she probably believes the things she is saying.
But you will probably recognize what is going on when you read my posts from this week on my thread.
Sandi,
I completely agree that my W is in full WAS mode right now and is saying things she knows are untrue to try to convince herself what she is doing is ok. I know she probably believes the things she is saying.
Hi Gima,
Been following along without much to say but wanted to add one thing here. Do you remember the thread we had about cognitive dissonance? You are seeing this first hand. What your W is doing goes completely against her own belief system so she has to create this alternative reality in order to cope. I know that doesn't make things any easier but it is what it is. Just don't let her suck you into her emotional vortex.
No worries there. I see right through her explanations. Had 8 months to learn her game plan.
Embracing the suck, I think means letting your emotions run their course. You allow it to run its course b/c you can handle it.
. Rather than try to "fix" everything immediately, which often (for me) led to sweeping it under the rug, or putting my head in the sand.
GIMA, I hope you enjoy your time away. Although I'm a blue water Navy guy, and I love the open ocean, I grew up in the NW, and my heart belongs to the clear, cold, fresh water of streams and lakes. Nothing better than a cup of coffee at sunrise on the banks of a stream or lake. Sigh. Enjoy.
Thanks Hose. I gave up trying to "fix" anything but myself a while back.
I prefer salt water fishing, but fresh is much easier for me to get to.
Think I'm gonna go for a walk around the lake. Brisk air will do me some good.
Good morning everyone. Getting ready to shove off from the lake and head back home. And there is a sense of dread and a bit of fear in me. I can handle it, but I dread getting back into the existence that is my "M" right now. And I am a bit fearful that this D is going to cost a lot of $$ that we can ill afford to spend right now.
My devotion this morning had a great passage I wanted to share with everyone:COURAGE MEANS BEING AFRAID AND ACTING ANYWAY.
And that point hit me right between the eyes.
I don't want to leave the peacefulness of the lake to return to pain, stress and resentment. But, I have to be an adult and face these challenges head on.not the easy thing to do but the right thing.
I wish peace for everyone here today.
No worries there. I see right through her explanations. Had 8 months to learn her game plan.
GIMA,, lurking and reading along..
Exactly,, for the WAW it's all about THEM justifying their actions so they aren't the "bad guy"... In my sitch my WAS would have claimed the moon was made of green cheese if it would have justified/supported her actions in her mind...
"That which doesn't kill you, makes you stronger"
Hang in there and best of luck to YOU!
Yep, they say things they know are untrue to try to convince themselves that what they are doing is OK. They try to justify what they're doing, even if it means misrepresenting the truth.
Refering back to the day you were served the D papers at the office and went home, and you wouldn't talk to W or even notice her, and then she whispered a rather choked "good-night" on her way to bed. Then she sends you the pictures of the kids, etc. I'm thinking that she has not faced the reality of what her life will be without you as her "buddy". You are a wonderful person and she may not want you for her H, right now, but you served a place in her life.....and she doesn't want you "completely" out of that spot.
While I have a different view of that, it is clear from the date of the bomb, W never had any true desire to work on our M. She sees happiness on the other side of this. I know what awaits her, and it isn't pretty.
She thinks she will always have you as her best friend. I think she honestly was shocked when you came in from being served with D papers and didn't have anything to say to her! I believe she thought good ole GIMA would sit down an try to softly talk her out of it. IMO, that is why she felt that emotion when she started to bed and whispered the good-night. She just didn't expect the response you gave. I know, it sounds crazy to expect any other reaction, but she isn't logical.
I may stand alone on this, but I don't think you should have even responded with an "OK" on the phone when she sent the TM. Ignore her GIMA. She can't stand that. Didn't you see how it affected her that night? If you are ever....EVER going to show her how life without GIMA will be after the D, it is now or never. Stop being nice and don't feel that you have to give her a response just b/c she sent you something on the phone.
When you go home, don't eat with her, don't even talk to her or stay in the same room if you don't have to. Go as dark as the night.
P.S. (Maybe it was Ready2Change that said I was sarcastic.
Doesn't matter, both of you are my sweeties.)
I have to agree with Sandi.
Ignoring her fully is the way to go.
My H treated me like garbage for a long time after the bomb. For a long time I let him treat me like garbage but that is another story.
Our separation was final on 11/17/09 and I cut off ALL contact with him. He texted me on T-day and I ignored him. THREEE WEEKS later I got a long e-mail from him about how hurt his feelings were on T-day that I never responded to his text and how he guesses he better get used to me treating him this way and blah, blah, blah. Boring, lame... you know the drill.
Some WAS's have this odd fantasy they can treat their spouse like a second class citizens, lie, cheat, steal <insert transgression here> but figure once a bit of time has passed things will be "all good" and let's be buddies.
You are not your W's buddy nor should you want to be. You should view her as something in your past and as far as the present goes, she is nothing more than a major inconvenience.
At some point the WAS will get the message that bad behavior is not rewarded and it certainly does not result in a friendship. Some WAS take much longer to "get it" however the LBS can push that process along by SHOWING them... sorry, lady, I am out!
Now go kick ass this week! (literally of course!)
Thanks guys.
CG, great post. Resonated with me.
Driving so I can't write much.
Trent,
I created an alter ego on FB that isn't tied to my actual FB account at all. So I don't see stuff for the "real me" and no one sees what my psuedonym is up to.
As many here know, I did the same thing as Gardenerman. Worked out well & glad I did it. What's yours (or do I already have it? Problem is, many who do the same thing don't use their DB name - or variation, like I did - so I most times don't know who's who!).
If I remember correctly, you were one of the first people I friended.
If you look at your friends list, you should be able to figure out which one I am.
gima,
I'm so glad you got away from it all for a bit. Good for you.
I can't imagine you talking down to anyone
I second that, fer sure.
I completely agree that my W is in full WAS mode right now and is saying things she knows are untrue to try to convince herself what she is doing is ok.
Exactly,, for the WAW it's all about THEM justifying their actions so they aren't the "bad guy"... In my sitch my WAS would have claimed the moon was made of green cheese if it would have justified/supported her actions in her mind...
Yep, they say things they know are untrue to try to convince themselves that what they are doing is OK. They try to justify what they're doing, even if it means misrepresenting the truth.
Some WAS's have this odd fantasy they can treat their spouse like a second class citizens, lie, cheat, steal <insert transgression here> but figure once a bit of time has passed things will be "all good" and let's be buddies.
AMEN, all!!! Why, just the other day in an email about D business, in a total non-sequitur, I was informed that our relationship was destructive, unhealthy and she acted in self-preservation! The WAS willjust keep going and going and going, like the Energizer Bunny!
Driving so I can't write much.
Driving? Hey, gima, don't write
at all!
Ok. Not driving anymore, so now I can type.
Back from the lake. Really enjoyed seeing the kids. Read to my D6. She is the only woman in my life right now giving unconditional love.
And, without going into too much detail, I asked W about a trip S said we were taking for his birthday. I told her we could not afford that "now." Asked where she planned us to stay, and she replied, her parents. WHAT?! REALLY?!
Sorry, but didn't you just file a D petition against me? It is simply mind boggling that she would think we would all stay at her parents or that we would take a trip together as a family.
Am I overreacting or is this as crazy as I think it is?
GIMA,
I'm glad you made it back safe. Unconditional love from D6! you are so lucky! I know you treasure your time with your kids.
well, it boggles my mind for sure. That would be a stressful trip, to say the least.
Are you overreacting? you already know she is irrational and untruthful with you, so its likely best not to mind read.
She will have to confront reality eventually, right?
Am I overreacting or is this as crazy as I think it is?
It's as crazy as you think it is.
Am I overreacting or is this as crazy as I think it is?
It's as crazy as you think it is.
Thanks Gardener. This type of thing still surprises me.
pssst! gima,
Like I just told SpyBunny, if you'd like to end your night with a chuckle, c'mon over to my new home at Surviving...
Ok. Not driving anymore, so now I can type.
Back from the lake. Really enjoyed seeing the kids. Read to my D6. She is the only woman in my life right now giving unconditional love.
And, without going into too much detail, I asked W about a trip S said we were taking for his birthday. I told her we could not afford that "now." Asked where she planned us to stay, and she replied, her parents. WHAT?! REALLY?!
Sorry, but didn't you just file a D petition against me? It is simply mind boggling that she would think we would all stay at her parents or that we would take a trip together as a family.
Am I overreacting or is this as crazy as I think it is?
GIMA ~ my friend...
It's not about whether or not y'all can afford this 'now'. It's about not taking a vacation with the woman who just served you D papers. It is simply mind boggling to me that either one of you would think that y'all would travel together - forget about who will sleep where. What? Is she going to pitch in on this event - split it half with you? No - YOU, YOU GIMA, will be paying for her holiday to celebrate her son's birthday. That is not D-World, sport. D-World for Mrs. Gima is that she will have to tell her son "I'm sorry, junior, but I can't afford Disney right now. Let's bake a cake and invite friends over."
Perfect opp for you to let her feel what D feels like.
And wow - what a con. Saying 'no' to her is in effect saying 'no' to your son which I KNOW you don't want to do. But she needs to know what D looks and feels like. No Disney.
You are not overreacting. It is crazy. Mrs. GIMA is cake-eating.
GRRRRRRR.
Greek
Thanks Greek. I know you're right.
It's all geeting "realer," for both of us.
It's all geeting "realer," for both of us.
Never doubt that I know what that is like ... for both of you. I'm sorry, GIMA. But..well...you know...You can handle it.
Greek
It's all geeting "realer," for both of us.
Never doubt that I know what that is like ... for both of you. I'm sorry, GIMA. But..well...you know...You can handle it.
Greek
Yes, I know I can handle it. Just gonna be tough. But, I'll make it.
GIMA, I concur with Greek. The trip to Disney is canceled. In case you forgot, they are not called consequences for nothing. Make her own her shirt by being there when she tells son that he can't go and the reasons why.
Reasons:
1. "WE" are not a family anymore so there is no reason to fake it.
2. The money that was earmarked for the trip now has to be used to fund L's and the D.
3. I need to look out for myself and my kids from this point forward.
4. "WE" are no longer friends.
Sea change a comin', Sailor.
Greek
I agree - let her be the one to tell the child that the trip is off and there will be no more family trips. I know it will be painful but it's not right to give such a young child any sort of false hope when a divorce is happening. And it's even WORSE to let the WAS think for a f'ing second (please pardon me, I can hear my Gran saying "citygirl, LANGUAGE!) that ya'll are pals. Have mercy!
Do something super fabulous with your son and while I don't think giving too many details is the way to go, spell things out IN FRONT OF YOUR W to your son in a way you think he can handle it.
You know what? It doesn't feel like it now but you will find somebody who is far more suitable for an adult R. I am flabbergasted (and trust me, it takes quite a bit, lol!) that your W would think ya'll are going to Disney after she serves you D papers at work. I had to read that about 10 times to be sure I wasn't misreading.
To anybody reading this.. if you are SERVED divorce papers do not go on a trip with your WAS. It doesn't matter if it is "for the kids" or the trip has been planned for 25 years. NO NO NO!
Make sure ANY and ALL perks of marriage cease to exist.
GIMA, it's unanimous so far = YOU ARE NOT GOING TO DISNEY WITH HER AND STAYING WITH YOUR IN=LAWS BECAUSE SHE SERVED YOU DIVORCE PAPERS!!!!! It's not about the money, it's about the gall she has. That is unbelievable really. You are too sweet a person here - time to Tough Love her to death!
As for letting your son down - how about this - YOU TAKE YOUR KIDS TO DISNEY and she is not invited. SHE IS NOT INVITED BECAUSE SHE WANTS TO BE ON HER OWN. Then your kids don't have to suffer because she is being selfish and splitting up your M.
I'm sorry this makes me so angry to hear that she could slap such a nice person with D papers and then insist you stay at her inlaws for a vacation? THAT IS AS CRAZY AS IT SOUNDS. GRRRRR!!!!
Update from this morning. I spoke to W and told her that she and I had been on our last trip together. I told her we would not be going on S's birthday trip and that this was a consequence of her filing for D, which was her decision to break up the family. I told her filing for D and going on "family" vacations were mutually exclusive items. You can't do both.
I also explained that we did not have the money, and especially didn't now since she filed. That I would have to take money from the family budget to retain an attorney.
Of course, she got angry (as I expected she would) and I was the bad guy. I was being unreasonable/selfish for not laying aside my interests and thinking of the childrens' best interests (b/c, of course, people stay friends all the time even after D), that her filing the D action was merely a reaction to our "relationship."
I explained that the decision not to go had nothing to do with not keeping the childrens' interests at heart. I said people who are D'ing do not vacation together.
I also asked her if she really thought I would (a) go on vacation with her and (b) stay at her parents. All she said in response was that her parents had been "gracious" enough to offer to let us stay at their place. Huh?
I know what she is saying is simply her way of justifying her position that is simply unjustifiable. I have no doubt she truly believes her statements. That, however, does not make them right or defensible.
I am glad you told her NO TRIP.
To save yourself a bit of aggravation do not "explain" things to her. If your WAS is like mine she will go in circles to make her point.
Make clear declarations and let her know NO further discussion will take place regarding the family unit or anything else she has chosen to eliminate from her life. You do not have to explain anything to her (for your own sanity its better you don't).
Have you given her a move out date that she must fund on her own? When are you planning to split the finances?
I am glad you told her NO TRIP.
To save yourself a bit of aggravation do not "explain" things to her. If your WAS is like mine she will go in circles to make her point.
Make clear declarations and let her know NO further discussion will take place regarding the family unit or anything else she has chosen to eliminate from her life. You do not have to explain anything to her (for your own sanity its better you don't).
Have you given her a move out date that she must fund on her own? When are you planning to split the finances?
CG,
I am meeting with my L this week. Have to pull the money for a retainer for that. When I meet with my L, I will ask about those questions.
Very good! Make sure she will be repaying your legal fees
And, I didn't mean you shouldn't discuss co-parenting with her when I said no discussions about the family unit. I meant no more discussions about what you have decided regarding things she thought would still remain after a D (trips, holidays and so on).
gima,
I spoke to W and told her that she and I had been on our last trip together.
Good for you for putting a quick, decisive end to her literal trip to Fantasyland
Of course, she got angry (as I expected she would) and I was the bad guy. I was being unreasonable/selfish for not laying aside my interests and thinking of the childrens' best interests..., that her filing the D action was merely a reaction to our "relationship."
Yep, you're the Monster now as she begins to take up residence in her own figurative FantasyLand.
(b/c, of course, people stay friends all the time even after D)
I also asked her if she really thought I would (a) go on vacation with her and (b) stay at her parents. All she said in response was that her parents had been "gracious" enough to offer to let us stay at their place. Huh?
Evasive, non-sequitur, dodging "dialog" begins.
Aside from all your many other attributes and strengths, you've had a
lot of roller coaster-riding experience. Hang on, buddy and you'll get through it all fine.
I spoke to W and told her that she and I had been on our last trip together. I told her we would not be going on S's birthday trip and that this was a consequence of her filing for D, which was her decision to break up the family. I told her filing for D and going on "family" vacations were mutually exclusive items. You can't do both.
Good. You had to burst her little bubble sometime or another.
Of course, she got angry (as I expected she would) and I was the bad guy.
Of course... what else is new in WASland.
I was being unreasonable/selfish for not laying aside my interests and thinking of the childrens' best interests
Yep, BBB (blah, blah, blah)... good thing you expected it.
(b/c, of course, people stay friends all the time even after D),
I can't remember, but have you shared this line with her before? "For the sake of our children I will maintain a cordial, civil relationship with you from this point forward. Any friendship we had is now over. I am no longer be your friend or confidant. The sooner you register this into your head the better."
that her filing the D action was merely a reaction to our "relationship."
She is living in delusion, isn't she?
I explained that the decision not to go had nothing to do with not keeping the childrens' interests at heart. I said people who are D'ing do not vacation together.
GIMA, maybe it's time you stopped 'explaining' to her and start 'deciding.' From this point forward you don't owe her any more explanations and don't need to excuse yourself either.
I also asked her if she really thought I would (a) go on vacation with her and (b) stay at her parents. All she said in response was that her parents had been "gracious" enough to offer to let us stay at their place. Huh?
Trying to reason is a futile exercise. The only reason that is understood is "the carrot and the stick."
That, however, does not make them right or defensible.
Agreed. You know this, we know this... unfortunately the other halves of people on this site don't.
We do the best we can.
Thanks Gardener and Gnosis. I don't enjoy these discussions, but they are becoming second nature to me. I don't worry about her reaction (what's the worst that will happen? that she D's me?).
I have accepted that she thinks it is "normal" (no, really that she EXPECTS)for us to be best friends after a D I don't agree with that will have the effect of splitting up our family and depleting our finances. While I have accepted this, I will NEVER understand it. So, I won't try any more. It just IS.
I have accepted that she thinks it is "normal" (no, really that she EXPECTS)for us to be best friends after a D I don't agree with that will have the effect of splitting up our family and depleting our finances. While I have accepted this, I will NEVER understand it. So, I won't try any more. It just IS.
Gima, my H says he wants us to be friends eventhough he has ow. He says b/c of our history and our children we should aim to be friends. Translation; "Cas, you should do everything to minimise my guilt and discomfort. You do the work and I will accept such gestures graciously but I won't make any sincere efforts."
Another unrealistic and unreasonable expectation from WAS
I have accepted that she thinks it is "normal" (no, really that she EXPECTS)for us to be best friends after a D I don't agree with that will have the effect of splitting up our family and depleting our finances. While I have accepted this, I will NEVER understand it. So, I won't try any more. It just IS.
Gima, my H says he wants us to be friends eventhough he has ow. He says b/c of our history and our children we should aim to be friends. Translation; "Cas, you should do everything to minimise my guilt and discomfort. You do the work and I will accept such gestures graciously but I won't make any sincere efforts."
Another unrealistic and unreasonable expectation from WAS
Cas,
I couldn't agree with you more. A "friend" does not do what my W has decided to do. And if that is a "friend," I don't need any of those.
GIMA I couldnt have a friendship with my H if we wernt together, its just too much to ask for us to be friends with someone we still care deeply for certainly beyond a friendship and just limit it to friendship.
Why do they seem to think the hand of friendship is enough to passify us? How would they feel if they loved someone and were asked to reduce it to a friendship over night, I dont think they'd like it much either.
Keep your chin up GIMA and remember you can say no to a friend!
Why do they seem to think the hand of friendship is enough to passify us?
I don't think they are doing it for us. They are doing it to reduce the guilt/conflict they are fighting.
But, I agree with you. Friends is not what I want from her. I want to be her best friend inside a happy M. And I want her to be my best friend inside a happy M. Nothing less.
Gima, my H says he wants us to be friends eventhough he has ow. He says b/c of our history and our children we should aim to be friends. Translation; "Cas, you should do everything to minimise my guilt and discomfort. You do the work and I will accept such gestures graciously but I won't make any sincere efforts."
LOL Cas! Your h and my xh must have scripted that one together. Almost word for word what I was told. What a crock!
You know GIMA, I think you handled that very well.
If I remember correctly your children still don't know, correct? When is your W telling them? You should be present but she needs to own her responsibility for this and if she tries to pull the whole "Mommy and daddy just don't get along anymore." bullcrap on them call her on it. She doesn't get to weasel her way out of this one.
What do you all think of the "evidence" that children fare better when divorced parents are friends?
@Mishka, you are correct. Kids don't know. W WILL be the one to tell them - I have already had that discussion with W. And she will not tell them I agree with her decision.
@aak, glad to hear from you. Hope you've been well. I think the question should be rephrased to what we think when parents don't involve their kids n their issues. That means no bad talk about one another in front of the kids. That does NOT mean being friends. IMO, I think it's about sheltering the kids from the negativism that exists b/w D'd parents. The kids aren't naïve - they know you got D'd b/c you didn't get along. But, we don't have to let those problems bleed over into the kids' lives.
Hey. I'm doing alright.
I actually meant what I said. From what I have read, children adjust better when the parents are friendly, not just tolerant of each other.
I struggle with this as I am very able to get along with my STBX and we even vacationed together but I sometimes feel that I am cosigning his BS by doing so. It is confusing. However, if I knew it was in the best interest of the kids, it would really help me feel okay about it.
My judgements about H are just that, no matter how "right" I or everyone else thinks I am...he has a right to make the choices he's making even though I think he's really screwing up. That has been part of my evolution. I do not have to be friends with him and I do not have to vacation with him but I am trying to accept that he is on his own path. In turn, my anger and bitterness subsides and I find it easier to be friendly, even jovial with him.
Still, I often long for my kids to know that I am not in collusion with his behavior and I want them to know "right" from "wrong" but the interesting thing is that they see that mommy and daddy CAN get along very well when we want to which pokes a giant hole in his excuse and they are recognizing that daddy is making a choice for very selfish reasons and they are starting to call him on it.
Overall, I am trying to make decisions based on what is in my best interest and my kids and not to make a point or punish him. I have no idea if it will end up being the right call. Sometimes I want to tell him he's an a**hole and never speak to him again which may very well happen yet.
AAK,
I applaud you for being able to be friendly with your H. I just cannot see being friends with my W. That doesn'r mean I will be uncivil or rude to her. And I certainly will not say anything negative about her in front of the kids - that would only hurt the kids, and that is precisely what I want to prevent.
I will not be with W on holidays or her birthday or mine. No anniversary rememberance gifts or cards. She is making a choice that she no longer wants those things in her life. It is not seeking retribution against her. It is reality.
AAK,
I applaud you for being able to be friendly with your H. I just cannot see being friends with my W. That doesn'r mean I will be uncivil or rude to her. And I certainly will not say anything negative about her in front of the kids - that would only hurt the kids, and that is precisely what I want to prevent.
I will not be with W on holidays or her birthday or mine. No anniversary rememberance gifts or cards. She is making a choice that she no longer wants those things in her life. It is not seeking retribution against her. It is reality.
Hey, I don't fault you for that and I go back and forth. Mostly, I don't want to have to split the holidays and special occasions that involve the kids (it is I who will be losing more because they mean so much to me). Our birthdays are separate and our anniversary is moot.
GIMA,
100% agree with you on the friends thing. Civil-yes, friends-no chance.
Gnosis,
GIMA, maybe it's time you stopped 'explaining' to her and start 'deciding.' From this point forward you don't owe her any more explanations and don't need to excuse yourself either....Trying to reason is a futile exercise. The only reason that is understood is "the carrot and the stick."
Good point. A hard one to remember when one has a logical, reasonable mind and is dealing with someone who no longer does.
Translation; "Cas, you should do everything to minimise my guilt and discomfort. You do the work and I will accept such gestures graciously but I won't make any sincere efforts."
A "friend" does not do what my W has decided to do. And if that is a "friend," I don't need any of those.
Why do they seem to think the hand of friendship is enough to passify us?
I don't think they are doing it for us. They are doing it to reduce the guilt/conflict they are fighting.
100% agree with you on the friends thing. Civil-yes, friends-no chance.
And the motion passes. Agreed all around.
Let's see...in my group of true friends - some lifelong - how many have abandoned me? Proven that their word, promise, commitment was worthless? Accused me of vile things? Attempted to turn loved ones against me? Systematically broken dozens of agreements? Screwed me financially?
That would be ...
none! And despite how that sounds, I'm not bitter about it. It's just a fact, just my stance.
"Let's be friends"?
Give me a friggin' break!
Sorry, but didn't you just file a D petition against me? It is simply mind boggling that she would think we would all stay at her parents or that we would take a trip together as a family.
Am I overreacting or is this as crazy as I think it is?
It's a pretty clear sign that she doesn't get the full picture of what a D family looks like. That is why I think you need to give her that picture now. No contacts, no trips together, etc.
Sandi,
I completely agree with you.
Good morning all. I think I need to do something for myself today. I haven't done that in a while, and I could use a pick me up.
I started my day with what is probably my favorite poem (and I don't even like poetry). I have posted it before, but I thought I would post it here today since it always has a strengthening affect upon me:
If
If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you;
If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,
But make allowance for their doubting too;
If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,
Or, being lied about, don't deal in lies,
Or, being hated, don't give way to hating,
And yet don't look too good, nor talk too wise;
If you can dream - and not make dreams your master;
If you can think - and not make thoughts your aim;
If you can meet with triumph and disaster
And treat those two imposters just the same;
If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken
Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,
Or watch the things you gave your life to broken,
And stoop and build 'em up with wornout tools;
If you can make one heap of all your winnings
And risk it on one turn of pitch-and-toss,
And lose, and start again at your beginnings
And never breath a word about your loss;
If you can force your heart and nerve and sinew
To serve your turn long after they are gone,
And so hold on when there is nothing in you
Except the Will which says to them: "Hold on";
If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue,
Or walk with kings - nor lose the common touch;
If neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you;
If all men count with you, but none too much;
If you can fill the unforgiving minute
With sixty seconds' worth of distance run -
Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it,
And - which is more - you'll be a Man my son!
-Rudyard Kipling
It's easy to grin
when your ship comes in,
you got the world at your feet
and the stock market beat
but the man worthwhile
is the man who can smile
when his shorts
are too tight in the seat.
Coach. That is beautiful!
GIMA. What a man of integrity!!!
Coach. That is beautiful!
GIMA. What a man of integrity!!!
Thanks mindfull. Sorting through some low grade grieving of the death of the M. I can handle it. All part of the process.
Make sure you take good notes!!!
Good morning all. I think I need to do something for myself today. I haven't done that in a while, and I could use a pick me up.
I started my day with what is probably my favorite poem (and I don't even like poetry). I have posted it before, but I thought I would post it here today since it always has a strengthening affect upon me:
If
If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you;
If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,
But make allowance for their doubting too;
If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,
Or, being lied about, don't deal in lies,
Or, being hated, don't give way to hating,
And yet don't look too good, nor talk too wise;
If you can dream - and not make dreams your master;
If you can think - and not make thoughts your aim;
If you can meet with triumph and disaster
And treat those two imposters just the same;
If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken
Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,
Or watch the things you gave your life to broken,
And stoop and build 'em up with wornout tools;
If you can make one heap of all your winnings
And risk it on one turn of pitch-and-toss,
And lose, and start again at your beginnings
And never breath a word about your loss;
If you can force your heart and nerve and sinew
To serve your turn long after they are gone,
And so hold on when there is nothing in you
Except the Will which says to them: "Hold on";
If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue,
Or walk with kings - nor lose the common touch;
If neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you;
If all men count with you, but none too much;
If you can fill the unforgiving minute
With sixty seconds' worth of distance run -
Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it,
And - which is more - you'll be a Man my son!
-Rudyard Kipling
Hi GIMA. Thanks for posting that. What a great lesson it teaches!
(((GIMA)))
Maybe this will put a smile on your face today
Sipping Vodka
A new priest at his first mass was so nervous he could hardly speak.
After mass he asked the monsignor how he had done.
The monsignor replied, "When I am worried about getting nervous on the pulpit, I put a glass of vodka next to the water glass.
If I start to get nervous, I take a sip."
So next Sunday he took the monsignor's advice. At the beginning of the sermon, he got nervous and took a drink. He proceeded to talk up a storm.
Upon his return to his office after mass, he found the following note on the door:
1. Sip the Vodka, don't gulp.
2. There are 10 commandments, not 12.
3. There are 12 disciples, not 10.
4. Jesus was consecrated, not constipated.
5. Jacob wagered his donkey, he did not bet his a$$.
6. We do not refer to Jesus Christ as the late J.C.
7. The Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are not referred to as Daddy, Junior and the Spook.
8. David slew Goliath, he did not kick the s**t out of him.
9. When David was hit by a rock and was knocked off his donkey, don't say he was stoned off his a$$.
10. We do not refer to the cross as the "Big T."
11. When Jesus broke the bread at the Last Supper he said, "Take this and eat it for it is my body." He did not say "Eat me"
12. The Virgin Mary is not called "Mary with the Cherry,"
13. The recommended grace before a meal is not: Rub-A-Dub-Dub thanks for the grub, yeah God.
14. Next Sunday there will be a taffy pulling contest at St. Peter's, not a peter pulling contest at St. Taffy's.
(((GIMA)))
Maybe this will put a smile on your face today
Sipping Vodka
A new priest at his first mass was so nervous he could hardly speak.
After mass he asked the monsignor how he had done.
The monsignor replied, "When I am worried about getting nervous on the pulpit, I put a glass of vodka next to the water glass.
If I start to get nervous, I take a sip."
So next Sunday he took the monsignor's advice. At the beginning of the sermon, he got nervous and took a drink. He proceeded to talk up a storm.
Upon his return to his office after mass, he found the following note on the door:
1. Sip the Vodka, don't gulp.
2. There are 10 commandments, not 12.
3. There are 12 disciples, not 10.
4. Jesus was consecrated, not constipated.
5. Jacob wagered his donkey, he did not bet his a$$.
6. We do not refer to Jesus Christ as the late J.C.
7. The Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are not referred to as Daddy, Junior and the Spook.
8. David slew Goliath, he did not kick the s**t out of him.
9. When David was hit by a rock and was knocked off his donkey, don't say he was stoned off his a$$.
10. We do not refer to the cross as the "Big T."
11. When Jesus broke the bread at the Last Supper he said, "Take this and eat it for it is my body." He did not say "Eat me"
12. The Virgin Mary is not called "Mary with the Cherry,"
13. The recommended grace before a meal is not: Rub-A-Dub-Dub thanks for the grub, yeah God.
14. Next Sunday there will be a taffy pulling contest at St. Peter's, not a peter pulling contest at St. Taffy's.
Thanks Serenity. I needed it.
OMG Serenity!!! That was fabulously funny!! ROTFLMAO!
(((Mishka)))
I have had this for about 10 years (it was a forwarded email) and it never fails to crack me up each time I read it...
I figured it was time to spread a little sunshine on GIMA.
(((Mishka)))
I have had this for about 10 years (it was a forwarded email) and it never fails to crack me up each time I read it...
I figured it was time to spread a little sunshine on GIMA.
And it was very much appreciated.
Ok. No more time for sulking around.
Anyone have any recommended books for going through the D process, dealing with the children, dealing with finances, etc.?
I think I'm going to have to build a wing on my house for my self-help section.
Thanks guys.
Not to be glib, but maybe don't buy so many books? Seriously, you clearly are a voracious ready and that is a good thing, but maybe dial it back a bit and just sort of figure stuff out. You are a smart guy, a good thinker, so don't run right into the books. Don't forget, at the end of the day, those books are getting churned out to make the authors and publishers money more than any other reason.
Ok. No more time for sulking around.
Anyone have any recommended books for going through the D process, dealing with the children, dealing with finances, etc.?
I think I'm going to have to build a wing on my house for my self-help section.
Thanks guys.
'How To Talk So Children Will Listen and Listen So Children Will Talk', this was referred to me recently here...and it's good.
And a big round of applause for the lady who clearly deserves the much-prized
Belly-Laugh of the Day Award!!
And, gima, thanks for Kipling. I needed to read that today.
Karen recommended the Nolo Guide to Divorce. I've found it useful.
It's an Ebook.
I got hit by some grief too, and found the postings here, especially your Kipling, uplifing. Thanks as always GIMA.
Quick recap of the day. 1st day I had some grief wash over me since the D petition was filed. Tough morning, but I muddled through. Staying busy at work helps to a point.
My mood improved through the day. On the drive home, while I still had a little sense of "losing the M," a question popped in my head: "Why are you sad to "lose" someone who doesn't want to be with you?" And, as soon as that question arose, the last bit of self pity disappeared.
The fact is, I don't want to be with someone, and will not miss that someone, who does not think enough of me and the family to make any effort to try to make the M and intact family work. Sorry, but I respect myself too much now to put up with that. The fact my W does not think I am worth her effort speaks volumes.
That's the way to think gima!
ps...I have always told my friends..."you can only be sad when you lose something good!"
That's the way to think gima!
ps...I have always told my friends..."you can only be sad when you lose something good!"
I REALLY like that.
That's the spirit GIMA. You deserve much better, and one day you will get it. Keep with the positive thoughts.
Thanks Tridoc. I know I will go through more ups and downs, but unlike the first bomb, I know I can handle my emotions and life now.
Met with my L today. Not going into detail, but I feel better about a bad situation.
Hope everyone's hanging in there. Don't really have much to report tonight. I just AM.
Antlers, I picked up a book of Emerson's collected works. But, I can't find the poem you posted about yesterday on my other thread.
GIMA. Must be something in the water. Saw my L today as well and am feeling much better as well.. I have lots to report but will do so later tonight. Let's just say the w did not have as good a day. In a word, consequences. Glad your feeling better!
DDogs,
Thanks man. Glad you are feeling good too.
Seems to be a lot of that going around up in here.
Seems to be a lot of that going around up in here.
GIMA, that's because:
After, "It is the season to be jolly"
comes the season to let go of folly.
For a lot of folks it's clean up time...
EDIT: I'm glad to hear that things went well with your bulldog.
Seems to be a lot of that going around up in here.
GIMA, that's because:
After, "It is the season to be jolly"
comes the season to let go of folly.
For a lot of folks it's clean up time...
EDIT: I'm glad to hear that things went well with your bulldog.
Thanks G. She should be what I need. It's going to be expensive, but it is nice to know she's got my back.
Antlers, I picked up a book of Emerson's collected works. But, I can't find the poem you posted about yesterday on my other thread.
It's not a poem GIMA, it's an excerpt from his essay on Self-Reliance. I'm sure that Self-Reliance will be in the book you bought. The entire essay is chock full of stuff as good as the excerpt that I posted to you! Enjoy!
Antlers, I picked up a book of Emerson's collected works. But, I can't find the poem you posted about yesterday on my other thread.
It's not a poem GIMA, it's an excerpt from his essay on Self-Reliance. I'm sure that Self-Reliance will be in the book you bought. The entire essay is chock full of stuff as good as the excerpt that I posted to you! Enjoy!
Thanks. I actually found the essay online after posting previously.
Morning. I have been thinking about some things my friends have told me over the past few days. Many of them believe my W is in some form of a MLC, and they may be right. It would explain quite a bit about the ease with which she has cast the M, and our family, aside. I had thought that MLC involves some destructive behaviors, such as large item purchases or an A. The large item purchase is not present in mine, and I don't think there is an A.
But, my W is nearing 40 and is going through the "change" early, or so she has told me.
So, if a MLC of some flavor is going on, then, as my friends have told me, I shouldn't beat myself up over things I have done in the past, whether they be mistakes I have made or things my W has told me I did wrong or the ways I "hurt her." I'm not perfect by any means, but I don't see that anything I have done justifies D. Not even close.
And the point of saying all this is to show how I am coming to terms with my W's decision to D me. I am beginning to understand that she was going to D no matter what. Maybe she felt unfulfilled or maybe she just began wondering "Is this all there is to life/M?" And once she started down that path, there was no turning back for her. To her, something better lay ahead, something that did not involve me - the grass must be greener over there. I can see it, smell it, almost touch it and it looks wonderful.
And, a MLC would explain the absolute zero impact my changes have had upon my W. In the end, they simply didn't matter b/c, in reality, they never mattered.
I understand that my W sees greener pastures without me and our intact family. That hurts to say, but I know it's true. And no less painful are the statements my W has made to me about how I was a bad H (just like the statements many of your WAS's have made to the LBS's here) that are simply not true, but which she must believe to justify her actions to herself (see Cognitive Dissonance) and/or assuage her guilt. The discussion yesterday with my L brought all of those statements, memories and pain back to the surface.
So, I am realizing that MY behavior has less and less to do with my W's decision to proceed with a D and seek her happiness somewhere else. And while that does not ease the hurt for me, there is some comfort in knowing the majority (maybe even all) of the reason she is leaving me lies with, and IN, HER.
So, I am realizing that MY behavior has less and less to do with my W's decision to proceed with a D and seek her happiness somewhere else. And while that does not ease the hurt for me, there is some comfort in knowing the majority (maybe even all) of the reason she is leaving me lies with, and IN, HER.
GIMA, and that is the first step to clearing your mind up a bit. You've told her you didn't want to D and she made the decision so you can move forward now. How is everything else going?
So, I am realizing that MY behavior has less and less to do with my W's decision to proceed with a D and seek her happiness somewhere else. And while that does not ease the hurt for me, there is some comfort in knowing the majority (maybe even all) of the reason she is leaving me lies with, and IN, HER.
GIMA, and that is the first step to clearing your mind up a bit. You've told her you didn't want to D and she made the decision so you can move forward now. How is everything else going?
Sol,
Everything else is sputtering along. I am handling it, but this week has been tough. I can recognize my emotions for what they are, and I know I will be ok with time. But, even by recognizing the cycle of emotions, that does NOT get you a free pass to bypass them. If you see a "get out of hurt free" card (like a "get out of jail free" card in Monopoly), send it my way!
No problem, GIMA. Will do. In the meantime I am sending you a big hug.
No problem, GIMA. Will do. In the meantime I am sending you a big hug.
Thanks.
Ok i didn't exactly read all 45 page or your 3353 posts, but you have been around long enough. What you do for a WAS or MLC is not that much different. Jack gave you the major differences between the 2 boards. I am not an expert on the newcomers board, in fact some of the advice kind of leaves me scratching my head but basically you need to let your W go and do all the DB'ing stuff. It is her crisis don't make it yours. I see you are going to start a thread over there and I am sure we can give out more advice as we go along. Maybe you can even teach me a thing or two.
Thanks OP. I hurriedly started a thread in MLC. And I did NOT try to include everything.
I have let go and have accepted this is her problem.
I have let go and have accepted this is her problem.
One of the smartest things you've posted. One of the hardest things to accept is that we have no control over someone else. Ironically, the sooner we accept that the sooner the other person has to take responsibility for themselves.
GIMA -= where is your new thread? What's the title?
AS you know, many WAS's think the grass is greener but change once they see the grass is just as cold and full of weeds on the other side.
I'm soooo glad you are gaining perspective to see it's not all your fault, not all about you. I had a MLC at 40 and it's part of my M meltdown, we women get them too. But not blaming yourself is the best you can do. If she were willing to work on the M, I"m sure you're an introspective enough man to work on "what you did wrong" but she is not. And when she says that, it is not the entire reason for her leaving and you know it. You know all our spouses claim we are the reason, and omit their own choices, needs, feelings. If she can't share those with you, that is not your fault.
Hard stuff. Painful. But you are detaching again, oh zen master. Keep it up. Remember what is her stuff is her stuff and you're right - nothing you could do about it.
Thanks Hope.
I'm hanging in there. Trying to stay busy at work.
I see you found my new thread.
Did a little GAL'ing last evening. Put the kids to bed, then left unannounced. Just went and ran a few errands, puttered around. Thought about going to a movie, but the timing on it would have had me walking out of the theater at 1:00 am. And I had a work breakfast this morning, so no movie.
Came back to the house a little after 10:00 pm. W was still up. I came in, set the alarm for the house, then went to my bedroom. Didn't speak or look at my W. Nothing to say.
Going out unannounced was VERY unusual for me. And I enjoyed it.
Yesterday W sent me an email (seems to be the way we communicate these days - pretty sad) saying she had a hair appointment Friday night at 8:00. So, this morning, as I was waiting with the kids at the bus stop (one of the highlights of my day), I asked the kids if they wanted to go out to dinner tonight.
After I put the kids on teh bus for school, I sent W an instant message to tell her that "I have decided to take the kids to dinner tonight. Please do not feed them dinner." I can see when she reads the message, and she did pretty soon after I sent it (which was a couple of hours ago). Thus far, no response. And I'm not waiting on one.
So, I will look for a fun place to take the kids to dinner tonight, and maybe something else with them - movie or something. Looking forward to my "date."
Really rough day. And the majority of it was self-inflicted.
I was rear ended in December. Today, I found out the car is a total loss. The car is worth almost exactly what the payoff on the loan is, so no down payment for new (used) car.
Then, later today, I was thinking about my job security. Our firm is hurting like virtually all other businesses. With the bomb last April and everything since then, my numbers for last year were not good. Tuesday is my review. All that, plus my natural tendency to worry, led me to believe I was going to lose my job. This, at a time when I am fighting my W in a D action and I am the sole money maker for the family (meaning the kids).
I spun myself up into what had to be an anxiety attack. I emailed my boss. He told me I am not losing my job but this coming year is critical for me. Good time to be in a D case.
So, I felt a little better, but still pretty shaken up. Today was NOT a good day. I am completely drained emotionally and physically. At this point, losing my job scares me more than losing my W.
I know God doesn't give me more than I can handle, but my plate seems just about full. And I hate even to say that as my sitch could be much, much worse.
I hear ya GIMA. We all get days like this.
Compartmentalize and "DB" the rest of your problems too. Usual approach, do your best in the areas you can affect, leave the rest to God. It's not like you run the economy.
Cheers.
Thanks Deep.
I hate even having to show that weakness to my boss. But, I couldn't stand going through the weekend not knowing.
A couple of questions for you from someone who was a longtime anxiety/panic attack sufferer....
1. Are you in IC? If it's possible, GO. Find an IC who will give you specific ways/exercises to manage the anxiety as well as assist you in dealing what's causing it.
2. Are you on meds? I'm no longer medicated, but while I was in IC and learning how to handle it, the meds put a floor under my feet. I was on Lexapro (daily) and Xanax as needed. I *hated* giving in to meds, but I used them as a tool so that I could get healthy and work toward a place to get off of them. I couldn't have done it otherwise.
One technique my IC gave me was to reschedule my panic attacks. So, for example, if I felt it coming on, I'd say inwardly (or out loud, if no one was around), "I don't have time to have you right now, but at 4:00 I'm free. I'll have you then." Then, at 4:00, I'd sit down and invite the attack. It was rare that I actually felt any anxiety at all when I sat down to have it, and it did the trick of keeping it from happening.
Another thing that really helped me was on days my anxiety seemed high, I'd get physically busy. Clean the house, go for a walk, go to yoga...you get the idea. Moving helps to work out the nervous energy.
Whatever you do, don't leave it untreated. Anxiety has a way of building and skewing your view of things. It's easier to "catastrophize" instead of thinking rationally...which makes the anxiety worse and the whole cycle multiplies over and over again.
SD
<edited for spelling>
GIMA,
another opportunity to make you stronger. And you are exactly right, the good Lord above is only going to give us what we can handle.
Stay strong my friend, you know what to do.
Oh sweetie, I'm so sorry. You don't deserve all the cr@p! I am concerned about you. You give so many hours to helping others here on the board, and you seem to be such a good, loving person it just makes me sick to see you in this kind of pain. Are you sure you are getting enough "GAL"? As selfish as I am in not wanting to see you miss a few days here and there (from the board)......maybe it would help you to take off a week or more. You know, as helpful as the board is....it does keep the stitch on your mind when you are talking about it every day.
Just a thought. ((GIMA))
Take care,
Sandi
GIMA, don't have much to say, but I'm wishing you the best.
Hey dude,
Sorry you are having a bad day. Join the club. I agree with one of the posters above about the IC. It does help. Also get some AD's. Don't be like your W and blame someone else. Look in the mirror and say I am stressed! I need some AD's to help me get through this. I am on Lexapro and it does help. The psch. told me that I was having post traumatic stress syndrome. You think?
The psch. told me that I was having post traumatic stress syndrome. You think?
Yup. Welcome to the Wednam War.
Thanks everyone. I really appreciate it.
Yes, I have been and am seeing an IC.
I have never taken AD's, but I am not against it if this becomes a pattern. Yesterday, I think the job issue was the trigger for a lot of bottled up emotions I just haven't been able to get out. I'm working on releasing those emotions, but the anxiety is gone. I simply have to give up worrying about something over which I have no control. That does not mean I just plod along in my job. It's time to step up with work, and I need that "distraction" from what is going on in my M.
The car thing is a relatively minor speed bump. That is easy to remedy. And, thank God my S and I weren't hurt in that accident. Like I told my S then, cars can be replaced. People can't.
Times like this is where faith comes in. It has to. I have to trust that God will not give me more than I can handle. I have to trust that no matter what, God will provide for me (with my hard work included of course). I have to trust that all of this happens for a reason and He knows what is better for me than I do.
I got up this morning and made waffles for the kids. O had them laughing throughout cooking. And it was music to my ears.
Going to stay busy today. S has asked to go to the bookstore "just us two." He has a basketball game today. I will either go for a run or hit the gym. And I will need to look at cars today. I was planning on moving into an SUV anyway (had a convertible) given that I will not have a "family" car to take the kids around in.
Thanks again guys. It is very comforting to know there are people out there who know what you are going through and are pulling for you. Thank you.
HI GIMA:
As someone who suffered (and now mostly conquered) anxiety attacks I can relate to how you are feeling and also echo everything SDFoundgirl posted.
The one thing I learned is there is no measure as to why we feel anxiety. There are not proper reasons to feel anxiety. If you are experiencing anxiety/panic attacks for *any* reason then the reason is significant.
I was scared to death when I started my medication. Honestly though, until the physical side of anxiety was relieved (and in many cases medication is necessary) I could not start dealing with the emotional side of anxiety. It simply (for me) was impossible to sit in my C's office and try and focus on what was being said when my anxiety was so high I could not breath, see straight and I felt like my heart was going to blow out of my chest. Maybe somebody else could but I could not. Then, I felt so worthless because I could not even function due to the physical side of anxiety I just spiraled further down.
When I was hospitalized I really thought I was having a heart attack. My anxiety and panic had reached a point of physically destroying my body and my lupus just pushed that along. And when you are so riddled with anxiety it physically impairs you medication can be a TERRIFIC tool to stabilize your body so you can get your mind "retrained". They are not "happy pills", they are tools to ease the physical symptoms of anxiety so your mind can do the work.
I sometimes thing.. GOSH, why did I suffer so long? The answer is I don't know. I do know when live in a state of constant anxiety you simply cannot think or process things with rational thought.
We are here for you!!!!
I have been reading you sich today, I am up to where you get served the D papers. My only comment is that you said that you were NC but you seem to be telling her everyday that she has to R or D. She picked D. If she is in MLC that seems like an obvious choice by her. You are causing her pain(so she thinks) so she has to get rid of the pain(you).
I will keep reading from there but that was only 11 days ago.
Keep busy with your kids, they are cute!
Sorry for the 2x4.
OP,
No worries on the 2x4 - I can take it.
Since the bomb in April, we have had 3-4 R talks. I am not having R talks with her other than those 3-4 that were spread out since the bomb. In fact, we had none of those talks from early May until Oct when things seemed better. From May-Oct, I db'd my butt off and acted like a detached and confident friend. It had NO affect, which seems consistent with MLC.
The only communication I have with her now is related to kids, $ or information to complete the disclosures in the D proceeding. Other than that, I do my own thing and hang out with the kids. She wants to be alone, so be it. As much as I can give her that and live under the same roof, I am giving that to her.
Sorry if any typos - posting from my cell phone.
I hope you are doing something amazing and interesting with your day, GIMA. Move forward!
Greek
Thanks Greek. I'm watching my S's basketball game then I will get back to looking for a replacement car for my old one.
Fun! And with the car...think New Life. Think - everyone has a silver Suburban but I want a (fill in the blank with the kind of car you have always wanted). Then make it happen.
Greek
I sent W an instant message to tell her that
STOP
I finished reading all this. Sandi2 has told you to go dark. You need to do that. NC means no contact. NONE!!!
This quote is from yesterday.
Don't tell her that you are going NC just do it!
NC is a form of communication. She will get the message.
I don't know about the D laws in your state but in NY when my W files for Sep/D then the clock starts. One year later we are D. Thats a lot of time for things to change but in MLC land its short. I read about a lot of D's where the spouse never shows up in court. Even if you get D because of the children you will never be done. Go dark now. It is the best thing, the MLC could go on for 10 years. Your W is young.
Well, the Ferraris are just a bit out of reach, and I wouldn't look good with a bushy mustache and a nickname like "Magnum PI," so it will probaly be an SUV which will be nice. I am coming out of a convertible. At some point, I would like to have a boat, which is not workable to be towed by a convertible. Will definitely be a manly vehicle, and one I and the kids will pick out for us.
At some point, I would like to have a boat, which is not workable to be towed by a convertible. Will definitely be a manly vehicle, and one I and the kids will pick out for us.
Right on!
Cheers ~
Greek
... with a bushy mustache.
ROFL. I am trying to picture this but it just isn't working for me.
Wouldn't work for me either. Funny if it were a will ferrell skit, or movie like Anchorman.
Wouldn't work for me either. Funny if it were a will ferrell skit, or movie like Anchorman.
You'll wear curlers but you won't grow a mustache???????
Greek
Curlers were my D's idea! And if she asked me to do anything, including a mustache, I would probably do it. And she knows that.
At some point, I would like to have a boat...
You can have the one that is in the permanent dry dock known as my driveway cause I would like to not have a boat. :-)
((((Gima))))))
I hope your son's game was a total blast and you are now happily at the bookstore perusing Car & Driver and finding your dream vehicle!
How are you doing GIMA? Did you find anything interesting on the car lots yet? I hope you and the kids are having fun picking one out!
Bunny
SB,
Thanks for checking in on me. I am handling it. Feeling a VERY empty love tank.
W tried to engage me in conversation about the car shopping which, for the 1st time ever, I have not included her in. And I think that MIGHT bother her. She asked how the car shopping was going and if I had reached a settlement with the other guy's insurance company. She also wanted to know if "we" had gap insurance. I responded with short answers that I was still looking, no agreement wiith ins. Co and no gap ins. Then went back to looking at my laptop.
Managing my nervousness about my job. Review time always does that to me. Decided to give that one to God but haven't fully let go.
S and I are heading back out to look at another car.
Hey GIMA. Get a car that you like...one that'll be good for you and the kiddos. Leave her out of it.
Antlers,
This decision is SO about me and the kids and only us. She made her choice.
Yeah...word! Haha!
Way to go, GIMA.
Greek
gima,
Catching up after a few days off. With the D, job anxiety, car being totaled, etc., you remain one of the most resilient, positive, strongest men I know.
Put that in yer ol'love tank today, buddy!
Thanks G. I appreciate it.
With the D, job anxiety, car being totaled, etc., you remain one of the most resilient, positive, strongest men I know.
Yes, what Gardner said.
Times like this is where faith comes in. It has to. I have to trust that God will not give me more than I can handle. I have to trust that no matter what, God will provide for me (with my hard work included of course). I have to trust that all of this happens for a reason and He knows what is better for me than I do.
Yes, again.
(((GIMA)))
GIMA - I had a huge anxiety attack the day H and I finalized the separation papers. This seems to be more of a normal reaction than we'd like to think. It does open the floodgates to all our emotions - this whole thing is traumatizing. I hear how strong and clear you are most of the time, but there is no shame in allowing your feelings out.
I had a panic attack so bad one night I threw up. Just like that. It was weird. Comes with the territory. You'll get through - and get that boat.
(((GIMA))))
And, I definitely think you should get info on MLC as I think your W is in one.
Hey GIMA, I recall being where you are, things will get better. It is so darn tough to be in the same house with Stbxw.
Keep focus on you, kids, and what your doing and where you want to go, stay dark as you can.
Staying dark is for your benefit as well, helps to keep your focus on you. When you drift at times to wondering what your stbxw is doing or thinking, try some keyword thoughts, or actions, that will help push your thoughts back to you and what you want.
Interestingly, for myself, I use one of the four agreements. "Don't take it personally" when I start to drift to stbxw in my thoughts, I actually say that in my mind. It snaps me back to the fact that she is on her own journey and it has nothing to do with me. Then I can return my focus to myself and d8 and brings my emotions back as well.
Have a great day GIMA, for you and your kids today!
Thanks guys. I did much better over the weekend. Even though today is a holiday officially for my office, I'm at work, by choice. I need to ramp up my hours and, thus revenue, generated. This is the engine that will drive the future for my kids and me. So, have to step it up there.
I had a discussion with the managing partner at my office last week about the job situation, and he had a great statement: "Sometimes, you just have to play hurt." So, I will.
Working on nailing down a new vehicle. Might have found one.
I plan to stay busy to keep my professional life in the right place. My personal life, as far as my W is concerned, is not something over which I have any control, so God will have to handle that one. I will keep my R strong with my kids - that will NEVER change in a negative way.
I plan to stay busy to keep my professional life in the right place. My personal life, as far as my W is concerned, is not something over which I have any control, so God will have to handle that one. I will keep my R strong with my kids - that will NEVER change in a negative way.
Kudos to you for that. Keep on with the keep on
I plan to stay busy to keep my professional life in the right place. My personal life, as far as my W is concerned, is not something over which I have any control, so God will have to handle that one. I will keep my R strong with my kids - that will NEVER change in a negative way.
Kudos to you for that. Keep on with the keep on
Thanks Sol. Hope all is well with you.
All good, positive, and strong GIMA! Good for you and your kids!
Keep those billable hours comin'....
We're working here- we don't get the federal holidays off except the big ones. Got a great parking spot though in the garage on account of all the firms in our building that are closed- Oh well..
Keep it up GIMA- we're all behind you!
Hugs, Bunny
Yeah, we're working too. Actually, the only business in our building that is closed is the bank home loan division on the bottom level.
A friend of mine is a schoolbus driver and she assumed I was off on Monday (she also was an Army wife for over 20 years and never worked before her H left). I told her that I lived in the real world where we're only closed on the major holidays. She was actually stunned. Good grief!
Yeah. Our office is officially closed today, but we have several folks here. I will probably cut out at around 3:00 to go home and play with the kids.
Think I've got the vehicle search down to two. I will start the bidding war tomorrow am b/w the car salesmen. And deal with the other driver's insurer to settle up on my old, now totalled, car.
Remaining silent with W. Doesn't seem to bother her, but that's not why I'm doing it. I just have nothing to say. For all intents and purposes, she has left me. And that does not make me want to be her friend.
I returned the "nicest" present my W bought for me for Christmas. It was a basting brush set. Turned out to be a $6.00 set. Wow. Why bother? Don't mean to sound ungrateful, but is that really the best you could do? I dropped over a $100 on her presents "from the kids." Wish I hadn't done that now. No, I take that back. I did the honorable thing.
Don't get me wrong. The dollar amount is not the issue. It's the complete lack of thought that went into it. In the frame of mind she's in now, she probably thought it was a great gift. But, it simply hurts.
Tomorrow, I have my job review. Need to knock the top off of it this year.
Living under the same roof and not having any conversation is not fun. But, it is a consequence of my W's decision.
Thanks. I'm doing ok.
Hope you are doing well MO3.
gima,
Chin up.
Good luck tomorrow.
gima,
Chin up.
Good luck tomorrow.
Thanks G. Tomorrow will be busy.
GIMA,
I know you're doing most of this already, but it might bear repeating... it's a partial of what I posted to TriDoc:
Conduct in the Home:
====================
1) Walk around like you own the place... because you do.
2) NO skulking in the corners or hiding in the bedroom
3) Take control of the remote.
4) Ignore her.
5) NO housework... you are not the maid.
6) Be polite like you're talking to a (mental) patient when discussing anything about the kids
7) The kids IS all you talk about.
8) Act like the epiphany you've had
Thinking of you.
All the best with your review Gima!
@Gnosis, thanks for the list. And, yes, I am doing those things. But, it never hurts to have a reminder.
@Cas, thank you. I am ready to have my review finished. Have a busy day today between work and resolving my car situation.
How'd the review go? And the car negotiations?
Hey GIMA,
I am dropping in on some people's threads who are great with posting help to others, I just read a posting in StBD forum from SirPrizeMe, that I think he really needs some help and prayers..
Update from the day. I made it through my review. Next 90 days are critical for turning around the department I am in. Does that mean I don't have a job later this year? I don't know. I am focusing all of the energy I have on generating new business and working what work I have right now. A bit scary, but I have to keep a positive attitude. What's the alternative?
On the car front, I think I have settled on the car I want. Will require a trip out of town, and it's actually cheaper to fly one way than to rent a car one way. Surprising.
I created a rough budget, and I am relieved that I will not be living in a cardboard box. Things will change, but I will be able to have a life while retiring debt and paying my other bills.
Had a bit of a low moment today when I went to clean out my totalled car. Don't know why other than I felt a lot of stress weighing on me (M, job, finances, car buying). Each in the isolation is manageable, but throw them all together, and it can be a bit overwhelming. Deep breath and broke them up into smaller problems and dealt with them.
Seems very strange to be dealing with these issues without being able to talk to my W about them. That is not possible now. And, although that hurts and makes me feel empty in some respect, I can handle it. I have to.
GIMA,
Of course you can handle it.
You are in my prayers.
Mo3
Just had a short discussion with W tonight. Not going into details other than it was a talk that was "necessary." In the course of it, she tells me she has returned to C'ing. That was a surprise. Don't think it makes any difference in the outcome, just thought it was notable.
Sorry I haven't been around much this week. It's been busy.
This am, I sent W an email to let her know what I decided to do as far as buying a new car is concerned (old one wrecked). Before you guys tell me I shouldn't have told her, there IS a reason that has to do with the D case that I'm not going into here. I will take a short flight out of town (b/c it's cheaper than renting a car one way), pick up the car, then drive back.
The new car has more room (b/c I need something larger than old car to take the kids around in once the D is final). It is two years newer and much lower miles than old one. Net effect is my car payment will go up $40 a month, and will STILL be below my W's.
So, tonight, I receive an email from W telling me what she "advises" me to do on the car situation, how she would "feel more comfortable" if my monthly payment were closer to my old one (did I say my payment ONLY increased by $40?!) and that she would "just hate it" if I flew to pick up the car and didn't like it. She says this is based on our "current financial situation." (Well, let's see, I am the only one working and YOU decided to file for D, an action not known to INCREASE a person's wealth).
After reading it, I honestly didn't know what to say. Did the email come from her L (certainly possible)? I thought SHE left ME. Yet, somehow she thinks she should still have the right to tell me what to do?!!
I am not buying a house or an expensive car. I got a great deal on a car that I actually like. So how in the world does she think she has a right to tell me what to do about buying a car that is lower priced than my last one, is a better value, and the payment is only $40/month more and LESS THAN HERS?!
Truly unbelievable.
Well, as you said, unbelievable.
Is there any need to document what is technically making this a good deal for you (for legal reasons i.e., she can't accuse you of wilfully squandering financial resources etc)?
Otherwise, maybe just let it be. Although the urge to respond is almost unbearable I would guess.
Actually, I'm ok with not responding. My W has "control" issues, as in if she isn't in control, she has issues.
I know what I researched in the way of vehicles, I know I got a great interest rate, and that I got a great deal on the car. We are talking about a used $14,000 SUV, not a $50,000 luxury. Had to go to a SUV b/c...why was that again? Oh yeah, SHE wants a D, so I won't have access to a "family" car (her's) for trips with the kids.
I have to have a car to be able to get to work, at a minimum.
I didn't asked to get rear ended four days before she filed for D. And I didn't ask to have my car totalled. I have to replace the vehicle, and I am doing my best to stay as close to my old payment, without driving something I would be concerned about taking clients around in.
I hope your enjoy your new car GIMA, and have fun on the road trip back!
Bunny
Your decision, you act, not wait for her approval.
GIMA, forgive me if these are stupid questions.
Why do you believe that you are entitled to a car of lesser value and lower quality than hers?
Why are you the one that has to sacrifice in this case?
If I'm not mistaken, your job requires you to have a reliable vehicle -- and one that will project a professional image to the firm.
I can understand if your decision is based on job insecurity... if that is the only factor then OK. In the even of a D you're splitting assets 50/50.
What did your L say?
Can you go for a higher end vehicle at this stage?
Curious Gno is trying to understand...
GIMA, unbelievable for sure. She doesn't work and had the nerve to bring up her comfort level at your spending? She is filing for D which is costly in itself and will decrease both of your income levels, and yet has the nerve to balk at $4o? She needs to understand your financial choices are YOURS ALONE now. I would not say anything, just stay dark about it. But another part of me wants you to firmly tell he to back way off and she has no right to comment ever again on your personal life, including finances. She gave up that right when she filed for D.
GIMA, boundary time. Seriously.
Thanks Hope.
I still feel my "nice guy" tendencies when she tries to make me feel guilty. My mother did it when I was growing up, and I HATED it.
Had a great night with my S. His school had a night at our local pro basketball team's game. We went, and were in the nosebleed section. No problem, I was with my S, and that's all that mattered.
About 15 minutes later, a guy from the team's office approaches me and asked if I was with my S. I said yes. He said, well, I have some tickets for you and your S down on the floor, and I always like to find a father-son to give them to. We went down on the floor and the seats were incredible. My S was so excited.
And I was thinking that obviously someone was looking out for us tonight. We had a great time. Something I won't soon forget.
I pick up my car tomorrow. On the way out tonight to the game, I told my W I would be flying to the other town to pick it up and then would drive back home. The look on her face was something between absolute confusion and barely controlled rage. Sorry hon, but you quit the game, so you can't tell anyone still in it how to play.
Wow! That is a great story about the basketball game.
Wow! That is a great story about the basketball game.
Thanks C-Bart. I sent the guy (kid really) who gave us the tickets an email thanking him and telling him why it meant so much to me. I just wanted him to know what an impression it made on me. What great timing.
AWESOME! How'd the Hawks do tonight?
I'm sure they rocked it with you and your S sitting there cheering them on.
Have a safe flight tomorrow. I hope the rain stays away long enough for your flight to not be delayed.
Love that she was nearly apoplectic over that....what a riot! Like she has any right to say one word to you. You're not being reckless with family finances. You have to replace the car that was totalled, no choice in that, and you found a great deal.
So what kind of SUV is it? What year? Mileage? I love to hear when someone found a fabulous deal on a car.
Thanks mishka. I sent you a message in the alt.
We had a great time last night. Looking forward to solving the vehicle issue. Will be nice to have that off my plate.
You know, the funny thing is I still default to the belief that since my W "checked out" some time ago, she should not care about what decisions I make for myself - such as the car. Why WOULD she care, unless I was hitting a MLC (one of us at a time please) and bought a Ferrari that we couldn't afford. But even then, there is no more "WE."
Legally, I understand we are still M'd. Hence, one (not all) of the reasons for being reasonable in replacing my car. But, it still surprises me she would stick her nose into this decision. I don't expect her to pay for my car any more than she should expect me to pay for hers once the D is done. I am probably making the critical mistake of trying to apply logic to an emotionsal decision by being surprised she still feels it's her place to "advise" me on a decision like the car thing.
Does she really think she has a right to involve herself in this when the decision I am making is reasonable and necessary? If there are any of the WAW's out there, I would love to hear your take.
I think you are making too much of this. Why do you think that it is a rational thought process of your W? This is not the same person that you think you know. She is an alien being. She says whatever she feels like saying today and tomorrow it could be totally different. You are making the best decision about your car for you. Thats it. Get the car and move on drop the thought process of your W. You are not detached enough from her based on this thought process.
I speak from the same place. I am not detached enough in my thought process.
Glad you had a good time at the game. Hawks beat the Bobcats
103-89. Your son must have really enjoyed it!
Have a good flight!
gima,
You know, the funny thing is I still default to the belief that since my W "checked out" some time ago, she should not care about what decisions I make for myself - such as the car. Why WOULD she care, unless I was hitting a MLC (one of us at a time please) and bought a Ferrari that we couldn't afford. But even then, there is no more "WE." Legally, I understand we are still M'd. Hence, one (not all) of the reasons for being reasonable in replacing my car. But, it still surprises me she would stick her nose into this decision. I don't expect her to pay for my car any more than she should expect me to pay for hers once the D is done. I am probably making the critical mistake of trying to apply logic to an emotionsal decision by being surprised she still feels it's her place to "advise" me on a decision like the car thing.
Does she really think she has a right to involve herself in this when the decision I am making is reasonable and necessary? If there are any of the WAW's out there, I would love to hear your take.
you're starting to let her rent too much space in you're head again. Beware.
You know, the funny thing is I still default to the belief that since my W "checked out" some time ago, she should not care about what decisions I make for myself - such as the car.
The word
should is a ticket to hell. There is only what IS, and beating your head repeatedly against SHOULD will only give you a headache.
Your W is reacting in a way that makes (warped) sense to her. Perhaps she sees it as less money for HER. Who cares why she responds the way she does? Hold true to what's right for you, then smile and nod at the BATCHITCRAZY and lob an, "I'm sorry you feel that way," or, "I can see how you'd see it that way," at her. Then tra la la down the path and do what you were going to do in the first place.
SD
gima, I agree with SD. And
this:The word should is a ticket to hell.
is
Great!. Thank you, SD.
Hey, congrats on the new car. I hope you had a great drive back to town.
Floor side seats at the Hawks game sounds great too!
Thanks guys.
And, yes, I agree, I am allowing my W too much space between my ears. I have worked on that over the weekend and on the drive back home yesterday.
Had a bit of that knot in my stomach over the D. But, I will keep moving forward. No other direction to go.
gima,
Had a bit of that knot in my stomach over the D. But, I will keep moving forward. No other direction to go.
That friggin 'knot is normal and
chronic. At first.
And make sure that while you're moving forward your mind isn't heading backwards (a frequent challenge for me).
Haven't posted much guys. Not much going on. My answer for the D petition is due next week. Don't know what it is W expects financially.
Wading through the range of emotions of all this. Handling it as well as possible. Still hurts.
Have been lurking on various threads here. Just wanted to check in to let you know I'm still around.
gima,
Not much going on. Don't know what it is W expects financially. Wading through the range of emotions of all this.
I'm with ya on all this. Although Mediation started to meltdown yesterday and I freaked and exploded. Felt good to get some of the anger out and tell 'em all (stbxw, stbxw's Lawyer & Mediator) To go to hell.
They've all been calling me like mad. I don't answer. My L set up a group meeting for 2/3. We'll see.
No More Mr. Nice Guy.
Gardener,
I have been watching your sitch and I think you are doing the right thing. Hang in there.
Hi GIMA. Sounds like you and I are in the same place; a new kind of limbo while we wade through the D process. My L is working my answer to the D filing as well.
I've been lurking, and haven't posted much lately. Still been watching to see how you are doing; Just wanted you to know I've been thinking about you. hang in there buddy.
Well, haven't posted much lately. And, that's ok.
STBX In-Laws roll into town tomrrow for the weekend. It's S's birthday. W is taking the kids to STBX In-Laws' hotel tomorrow for dinner and swimming. First time I won't be with them for a "family" event. But, this is a consequence of this process of D.
I will have dinner with friends on Friday night, then spend the rest of the weekend with the kids.
I am sorting through the down emotions. And it's a bit strange b/c I don't want my W, but I feel grief, which has to be for the loss of the family??
I know I will come out of this better off and will end up happier than I ever have been. While I KNOW that, I don't FEEL that right now.
Don't worry. Although I have been knocked off the horse, I will get back on.
Going home a little early for a run. God knows I need it.
gima,
I feel grief, which has to be for the loss of the family??
Of course. And for the loss of the "familiar," your old normal, and the future you envisioned for so long.
I know I will come out of this better off and will end up happier than I ever have been. While I KNOW that, I don't FEEL that right now.
Yep. I don't know if there's anything we can do to begin feeling it. Like detachment, it just "happens". It just takes time, like so much else.
You're in my thoughts.
Hey there, GIMA! I've been swamped at school lately so MIA but keeping up with you. Question: are you still wearing your wedding ring? Is she?
Greek
Greek,
I haven't worn my wedding band since early December. W still wears hers.
GIMA,
I'm sorry to hear about your sitch.
We're hangin' with ya bro.
It is interesting that your W still wears her ring. Mine took hers off a few weeks ago and it bugged me.
Why do you think she still wears it even though she has filed for D? Do you think it has something to do with your kids - she doesn't want to explain to them why she doesn't wear it or they may not even notice/care??
Interesting.
Thanks guys. Rough day.
@trying, no idea why she's wearing her ring. She has said she would wear her ring until we "have a piece of paper" saying we are D'd. Maybe it makes her feel like she has a sense of honor, as nuts as that sounds.
You are giving her way too much credit for being rationale. She wears her ring, she doesn't she tells you the sky is yellow at night and purple with pink polka dots during the day. Trying to make sense of it is a waste of time!
OP,
I completely agree with you. I was simply responding to a question. I have no idea what's going on in her head (and I doubt she does either), and I am not wasting energy trying to figure it out.
GIMA, allow yourself grief, even if it makes no sense to you. Feelings are complicated. You have an entire life behind you now to grieve, and also for the unknown future for you and your kids. I'm so sorry you are going through this. One day at a time. Feelings are irrational and may sneak up to nab us. But if you allow space for them, they will shift quicker.
Hope,
Thanks. That is exactly what I am doing or allow to happen. And I can always use a reminder to take it one day at a time.
W took kids over to hotel where in-laws are staying this weekend so kids could swim and have dinner. I decided to go over to a couple of friends (M'd) house for dinner and a movie.
Friends kept my mind occupied but I constantly thought of kids and what they were doing. Was the first "family" type evening I haven't been a part of. Damn. This is tough. Dammit.
I'm tired of feeling this way with this pain and knot in my stomach.
Hi, I have read through your posts. I actually don't really know what to say other than, I send you positive thoughts.
Even now, a year into my journey, I am still amazed at how similar our stories here are.
I have read and been told that it is the one left behind, the one who wants to try, the one whom holds onto faith and hope are the ones who in time gain...... a wholeness that the one who gave up will never achieve.
Now I don't relish in this thought for myself and others in a negative toward those that have decided to walk away....... I hold onto this notion as hope that you and me and everyone else one here rises to their greatest potential.
I am also feeling the sadness, emptyness and the loss of tradition and dream that I think you are feeling now.
My heart goes out to you, we are all here to support each other. I find that very unique and special.
Damn GIMA. Dammit. Dammit. Dammit.
Thanks working and Tulsa.
Just woke up - thought I would sleep late, but can't. Need to plan dinner for S - today is his 10th birthday. I can't believe he is 10! I want to make it special for him.
I know I will make it through this. It will be hard, painful and not fun, but I will be ok.
@working, I agree that I am ahead of my W as far as getting back in touch with myself and understanding my emotions. I don't wish any ill will upon my W, but I do believ there is a day out there where she will realize I am not the source of her unhappiness and will realize what she has done to herself, me, and most importantly, the kids.
I doubt I will ever hear about it (remember, my W has only apologized to me a handful of times in 15 years of being together), but I suspect she will have a tough time with that day. I plan on moving forward with my life, and plan to be in a much better place by the time she understands what she has done.
My goals now are to minimize the damage to the children, be the best father I can be, and continue to move myself to a place where I am happy and content with myself. In time, whenever God is ready for me to meet the woman I am supposed to be with the rest of my life, I know she will come into my life, and I will know what true happiness with a woman really feels like. I thought I did, and I thought I had that, but looking back from where I am now, I realize I didn't. I think I did initially, but then, that just went away.
Thanks to everyone here. Your support and kind words (and firm, needed ones too!) mean so much during the tough times.
GIMA, allow yourself grief, even if it makes no sense to you. Feelings are complicated. You have an entire life behind you now to grieve, and also for the unknown future for you and your kids. I'm so sorry you are going through this. One day at a time. Feelings are irrational and may sneak up to nab us. But if you allow space for them, they will shift quicker.
Sound wisdom for all of us. Thanks.
I have read and been told that it is the one left behind, the one who wants to try, the one whom holds onto faith and hope are the ones who in time gain...... a wholeness that the one who gave up will never achieve.
Wholeness...that's something that manmy of us here are ready to feel again.
My goals now are to minimize the damage to the children, be the best father I can be, and continue to move myself to a place where I am happy and content with myself.
And those are worthy goals...for many of us here. Thanks for posting them.
Hi GIMA,
I don't know if you saw the update on my thread. My H and I have been physically separated since April of 2008 and legally separated since Nov. of 2009. He has been with OW since March of 2008.
For close to 2 years I heard from him that divorce was his only option and R's should not be work and blah blah blah.
Last week he sent me a message and he told me he is having terrible problems in his R with OW and he now realizes it was not all me. He actually told me he was very jealous of the time and effort I put in working on me. He said the same problems we had are now happening with his GF. In a nutshell he said that obviously divorce is not the answer to fix things and he sees that now. That being said he has decided to "stick it out" with OW as he knows he caused too much damage with me.
Considering I have not been in his life for two years and now he has the same problems in another R clearly the common denominator is him. It's too bad it took an affair, a very ugly divorce, 6 figures in legal fees and the destruction of our R for him to see that.
I agree, in most cases the LBS does gain a level of understanding that the WAS may or may not ever gain. IMO it is very difficult to really "work on you" when you are deeply invested in another sexual/intimate/romantic R and many WAS are involved in such a R.
My H also told me last week he is constantly surprised with the way I communicate with him now and he guess he doesn't know the new me.
I do take great solace in the fact (and yes, it is a fact) that if something this horrific had to happen at the end of the day I put in great effort to work on me and many, many things in my life have improved because of that effort.
You seem like such a lovely man. As trite as this sounds just keep working on you. Enjoy the b-day for your son!
CG,
GREAT post and thank you for the compliment. I think I'm a pretty good guy and father as well.
One of the issues I am having trouble with now is being able to talk to W. Problem is, I don't WANT to communicate with her and only do so when I HAVE to - kids or $. Yes, I'm still very hurt and angry at what she is doing and the WAY she has done it.
I have complete control of those emotions, but they are there. I know its natural to have no attraction to W given that she is not meeting any of my needs and is doing the opposite.
Is it wrong for me not to communicate with her? I just don't think that's possible right now. And I don't see that changing for a while, if at all. The hurt is just too deep and severe.
I can relate to the deep and severe hurt. I still experience it from time to time and it is mind blowing. I consider myself to be rather detached but I think, even two years later, I am really starting to understand that detachment does not equal never hurting again.
IMO it is perfectly acceptable to set communication boundaries with your W at this time. And really, the boundary is for your well being so you can have the necessary space to work on you, heal and regroup.
Thanks CG. And I am healing...slowly. I don't want my W (or this current embodiment of her). But there is still some grief there.
I do think she is surprised I'm not being her "buddy.". But that's not my issue. Just an observation.
I will muddle through the in-laws being here. Sticking close to the kids helps. Just giving them all of my attention.
I have learned the VERY hard way that not dealing with the grief really is not the way to go. It was a terrible struggle for me that really took a toll on my physical and emotional health. I tried to push the grief aside for a LONG time and it resulted in terrible anxiety/panic attacks. However dealing with the grief was equally as hard but something I found to be necessary to get on the path of healing.
It is a balance and there is no formula that is 'right' or 'wrong'. I really do feel that is why forums such as this are such a tremendous resource.
My H also thought after some time passed he and I would be 'pals' and I do think it is has been rather earth shattering to him that a friendship at this time does not exist between us. In the message he sent last week he really expressed his shock that I am no longer there for him. He sent me a terribly mean message shortly after Thanksgiving filled with his displeasure that I did not text him and wish him a happy holiday. He went on and on about how hurt HIS feelings were.
I am sure it is difficult to have your in-laws around but I think you are doing great!
Thanks CG.
I am trying to process and deal with the grief. I don't want to suppress or fight it, other than to keep it from controlling me. I'm handling it.
I, Too, think these forums are great. Good to vent and get some advice and help. Don't feel quite so lonely knowing you guys are here.
I'm sure my in-laws are not comfortable being around me. Has to be awkward since they are the ones who gave W the $ to retain her L. That part still bothers me but I'm getting better with it.
Just have to make it through today.
Isn't it weird how WAW's think that a LBH would want to continue to be buddies?
Just wanted to stick my head in to let you know I still care.
Sandi
Isn't it weird how WAW's think that a LBH would want to continue to be buddies?
Just wanted to stick my head in to let you know I still care.
Sandi
Thanks Sandi. ALWAYS great to hear from you.
I tend to think the "we will be friends" thing is a mechanism teh WAS uses to try to relieve their guilt/conflict related to their decision to walk away. And I think when they get angry when the LBS doesn't want to be friends, their anger isn't really about losing a friend. Rather, their anger is from the LBS's refusal to be friends then forcing them to face their guilt/conflict rather than give them a free pass to avoid it.
I can't stand the "buddy" relationship either.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again, why would I want to be "buddies" with someone who would treat me like that?!?!?!?
By the way, GIMA. It can get better once she is out of the house.
I can't stand the "buddy" relationship either.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again, why would I want to be "buddies" with someone who would treat me like that?!?!?!?
By the way, GIMA. It can get better once she is out of the house.
Thanks EB. I do think when we are under different roofs, it will be both hard at first then easier on me not being around her all the time.
At this point, there is NOTHING I find attractive about my W.
A little long post, but I have some stuff I need to get off my chest.
Well, I made it through S's birthday dinner last night. We went out to a restaurant my S picked. My STBX in-laws were there. While my MIL acts her age, my FIL does not. Has never and at 75, I don't see that changing.
On the way to the restaurant, we took two cars. Not really oddly, but STBXW and STBX FIL in one car, and me, STBX MIL and the kids in mine. STBX MIL breaks part of one of my seatbelts!!! OK, no problem, I tell STBX MIL. I will just have that fixed.
We get to the restaurant. At one point, FIL, who was angry b/c W, who planned the dinner to this place, did not bother to get a reservation on a Saturday night. Too much on her mind? S had told me earlier in the week he wanted me to cook something for him, so I did not make a reservation anywhere. So, FIL is ticked we can't, as a party of 6, be seated immediately, on a Saturday night. He wants to speak to a manager, is outwardly vocal in his displeasure (many could hear) and caps off his childish behavior by slamming down his menu on the table, which makes a loud noise b/c the menus were hard backed.
Making it through dinner was tougher than I thought it would be. I was seated directly across from STBXW, who I simply don't even want to look at. At the same table are my STBX in-laws, who so kindly "loaned" STBXW a LOT of $$$$ for her L's retainer to help her break apart MY family. Tough pill to swallow. Very bitter medicine.
There was one bright spot for me. When we were forced to wait a whole 20 minutes (did I say it was Saturday night and we were a party of 6?!), and after FIL complains that he can't understand why we can't be seated immediately when others (who, BTW, HAVE reservations) are being seated, I calmly respond by saying it's Saturday night, we are a party of 6, we don't have a reservation (hmm, who was supposed to make that reservation again?!) and that it's not reasonable to expect we will be seated as soon as we arrive. That temporarily shut him up, but not for long. Suffice it to say, I will NOT miss FIL's childish, rude outbursts and his sense of entitlement to special treatment wherever he goes. I will have to make sure my kids do not develop those qualities. They are some of my most unfavorite traits/flaws.
So, we finished up dinner eventually. STBX in-laws went from the restaurant to their hotel, and STBXW, kids and I drove home. Not a word b/w W and I on the drive. I did speak to kids.
STBXW went straight to bed, while I stayed up with the kids for about an hour to watch TV, and just cuddle with D6. I LOVE that.
So, today, I have some work to do. I will stay busy with that, then S has baseball try-outs this afternoon late.
Yesterday, I processed a lot of anger, resentment towards W. I did not allow that to control me, and I am managing that well. But, I have NO desire to speak to STBXW about anything.
I am strong, but this has been a tough week guys. I feel pretty strongly about not talking to STBXW. That may not be the most mature thing, but I find it impossible to have a "friend"ly discussion with the woman who so seemingly with ease and not a thought is so determined to tear apart our family. Little bit of a vent there, but that's how I'm feeling. And that's where the anger is coming from.
GIMA,
It HAS been a tough week for you, so acknowledge and accept that. You made it through it, and now move forward.
You are in a tough spot right now, so don't imagine your going to be happy, or indifferent. That's just too much pressure on yourself to feel good about a situation that sucks. Just know that things will get better, even if they are not right now, and take every day and minute as you can.
I feel pretty strongly about not talking to STBXW. That may not be the most mature thing, but I find it impossible to have a "friend"ly discussion with the woman who so seemingly
This is my opinion, and others may slam me for it, but I don't care. You don't have to be 'friendly' to your stbxw. Why would you?
You however, CAN, be cordial and civil. That is different than being friendly.
I made this decision in my sitch: Why would I want to be friends with someone who destroyed my family, is currently crushing me financially, etc? Would I be friends with someone like that from outside my life? Sorry, but no.
Your stbxw has decided what she wants, and that is out. So be it, she can have that, but you don't have to agree with it, you just have to live with it, as it is her choice.
Now, focusing your thoughts in the above manner may help you return to what is important right now. Your kids and yourself. That's it. She owns herself, and her stuff now, not you. Don't spend you time trying to figure out what she wants, how she feels, why she is doing this, why she is cold, happy, sad, etc.
Right now, that is difficult to do when at home with her, I know..
What GAL stuff are you doing lately?
BTW, my opinion of you stbxFIL's behavior, is this is what happens when 'Nice Guys' don't work on repairing that bahavior. He was unhappy, as things were not 'his way' and rather than just owning it, he has to make everyone else aware of this.
I see this, and I hate to admit this, in my own father's behavior.
You know what though? Again, it's not our problem. If you waste time feeling bad, or being embarrassed from someone else behavior, it's akin to 'owning' that behavior yourself, and another 'nice guy' trait. You can't control it, only how you react to it, and what you will or will not accept in your personal life.
As far as I am concerned, if you had walked out during that, as a 'boundary' violation, that you won't be around people that behave that way toward you and your family, that would have been fine.
Kind of ranting here a bit myself, but hopefully you get some positives from my post...
Peace brother, and you will be fine and can handle this.
Thanks IWITW. I DID get some good points from your post.
I am definitely civil and polite to STBXW as I would be to a work associate I don't necessarily like, but have to deal with. That does not mean I act like her friend, or want to open up to her - I DON'T. But, it also doesn't mean I act like a jacka$$ - such as my STBX FIL did last night (and has MANY, MANY times before).
Funny thing is it's the first time I said something to him, and in front of everyone. Not in an angry tone, but more in a calm, yet firm and direct manner that he was simply out of line. And he was. And, I said it b/c I don't care what he, or anyone else there (except my kids) think of me. I was simply using my relatively new spine I found after the bomb.
Funny thing is, no one in the "family" ever really stands up to STBX FIL. But my kids were there, and I did not want them to think his behavior was acceptable. I would have said something even if the kids weren't there to be honest.
I don't spend time wondering why my W made her decision, and I agree with you that is a waste of time and energy.
Gima for what it is worth I think you are exactly on the right track w STBX. You have time later to have a R with her if necessary, for right this minute though I think NC is the best idea. If she doesn't like it she can pursue you! LOL
OP,
The last part of your post made me chuckle.
Thanks for the confirmation. It does help. I think this is the best way to handle my sitch right now. If what she has done are the actions of a "friend," I sure as he!! Don't need any friends! People who don't like me are better to me than she has been.
Isn't it weird how WAW's think that a LBH would want to continue to be buddies?
Like I've said before
Let's see...in my group of true friends - some lifelong - how many have abandoned me? Proven that their word, promise, commitment (let alone vow) was meaningless? Worthless? Accused me of vile things? Attempted to turn loved ones against me? Systematically broken dozens of agreements? Screwed me financially?
That would be ...none!
"Let's be friends"?
Give me a friggin' break!
gima,
So, we finished up dinner eventually. STBX in-laws went from the restaurant to their hotel, and STBXW, kids and I drove home. Not a word b/w W and I on the drive. I did speak to kids.
STBXW went straight to bed, while I stayed up with the kids for about an hour to watch TV, and just cuddle with D6. I LOVE that...Yesterday, I processed a lot of anger, resentment towards W. I did not allow that to control me, and I am managing that well. But, I have NO desire to speak to STBXW about anything.
Well, someone had to be the adult in that restaurant/party of six scene. That job fell rightly to you and you handled it admirably.
I am strong, but this has been a tough week guys. I feel pretty strongly about not talking to STBXW. That may not be the most mature thing, but I find it impossible to have a "friend"ly discussion with the woman who so seemingly with ease and not a thought is so determined to tear apart our family. Little bit of a vent there, but that's how I'm feeling. And that's where the anger is coming from.
Who could blame you?
gima,
Funny thing is it's the first time I said something to him, and in front of everyone. Not in an angry tone, but more in a calm, yet firm and direct manner that he was simply out of line. And he was. And, I said it b/c I don't care what he, or anyone else there (except my kids) think of me. I was simply using my relatively new spine I found after the bomb.Funny thing is, no one in the "family" ever really stands up to STBX FIL. But my kids were there, and I did not want them to think his behavior was acceptable. I would have said something even if the kids weren't there to be honest.
Bravo. Good stance!
Thanks Gardener. I feel pretty good about getting through this weekend. And, I feel better than I did last week. Hope I'm coming out of the funk I was in last week.
Watching one of my favorite Westerns, The Good, The Bad and The Ugly.
Hey GIMA, just catching up on the weekend action... nice job @ the restaurant.
Watching one of my favorite Westerns, The Good, The Bad and The Ugly.
Which one is W?
IMO, you did a fantastic job handling and difusing the situation with STBXFIL.
I am in agreement with the way you are handling your STBXW. Cordial yes, friendly.......NO WAY!
I hope this coming week is better for you in all ways GIMA. You know I'm here rooting for you!
Ha Gnosis. Think she would be The Bad.
Thanks Mishka. It does help to hear from folks that I'm on the right track.
Think she would be The Bad.
Are you sure? I kinda liked the bad guy in that movie
Does she need any dental work?
Haven't seen this in a while. I won't say W is ugly, but she is acting very ugly.
GIMA, I hope your sons birthday went well and he had fun.
Be his rock, you are his mentor on what it is to be a man and to percervere. It is your unconditional love, strength, compassion, and wisdom that will get you and your children through this in the best way you can with the cards you all have been dealt.
It is our responsibilry to teach/mentor our chiildren to be ladies and gentlemen.
- to show them how to be Resouceful (how to find solutions to problems)
- Show them how to be Respectful
- How to build healthy and loving Relationships
= How to Regulate our/their emotions/feelings
- How to Rejoice in life/ modeling enthusiasm
You have been given two gifts every year for the last 6yrs and a gift for the last 10yrs. Congratulations on being a FATHER!
I must admit I am crying as I write this, we are so lucky to be parents!
gima my friend. One day at a time! You can and will THRIVE through this. You are a much better man and father today because of what you are going through. Keep on, keepin' on!
Hey GIMA, just catching up on the weekend action... nice job @ the restaurant.
Watching one of my favorite Westerns, The Good, The Bad and The Ugly.
Which one is W?
LMAO.
Be his rock, you are his mentor on what it is to be a man and to percervere. It is your unconditional love, strength, compassion, and wisdom that will get you and your children through this in the best way you can with the cards you all have been dealt.
It is our responsibilry to teach/mentor our chiildren to be ladies and gentlemen.
- to show them how to be Resouceful (how to find solutions to problems)
- Show them how to be Respectful
- How to build healthy and loving Relationships
= How to Regulate our/their emotions/feelings
- How to Rejoice in life/ modeling enthusiasm
We are so lucky to be parents!
That's a helluva post working on me! Thanks. And it's all so true!
Hey GIMA,
I saw this quote from a daily personal growth email I get, and thought of you and your stbx-FIL..
"Be who you are and say what you feel because those that mind don’t matter and those that matter don’t mind" - Dr. Seuss
working on me, this is an absolutely great post!
Be his rock, you are his mentor on what it is to be a man and to percervere. It is your unconditional love, strength, compassion, and wisdom that will get you and your children through this in the best way you can with the cards you all have been dealt.
It is our responsibilry to teach/mentor our chiildren to be ladies and gentlemen.
- to show them how to be Resouceful (how to find solutions to problems)
- Show them how to be Respectful
- How to build healthy and loving Relationships
= How to Regulate our/their emotions/feelings
- How to Rejoice in life/ modeling enthusiasm
You have been given two gifts every year for the last 6yrs and a gift for the last 10yrs. Congratulations on being a FATHER!
Gima, allow me to add something to working on me's
superb post. It's what I told I told jtjuy last night as he was lamenting the prospect of being a "50%-of-the-time Dad"
For what it's worth, today (after my first D 19 years ago and the resulting 50% time with my growing sons), the two closest, most affectionate and loving relationships I have in my life are with my sons, 31 & 34. I've had the same thing with StepSon for the past 18 years and although he is currently estranged from me, he'll be back.
50% of the time or not, - no, because of the 50% time - you must always be and model your very best each and every time you are with him and always remember: you're not raising a child, a boy, you're raising a man.
In my hardest fathering moments I would ask myself do I want to press this point, overreact, or whatever here, or do I want to remember that my main goal is to build two great relationships with functional independent men 20 or so years from now. I always chose the latter.
(gima, jtjuy needed to hear this next point, too. But you don't.)And now I'll tell you what I always told them, in this case re: your potential 50% fathering: "Don't tell me what you can't do because of...Tell me what you can do in spite of..."
Much will change in the coming months but gima the great, loving Dad
won't be one of them.
Hey GIMA,
I saw this quote from a daily personal growth email I get, and thought of you and your stbx-FIL..
"Be who you are and say what you feel because those that mind don’t matter and those that matter don’t mind" - Dr. Seuss
I love this quote - I had it on my facebook for a while - think I might steal it again
In my hardest fathering moments I would ask myself do I want to press this point, overreact, or whatever here, or do I want to remember that my main goal is to build great relationships with functional independent adults 20 or so years from now. I always chose the latter.
Thank you for posting this Gardener.
"Be who you are and say what you feel because those that mind don’t matter and those that matter don’t mind." - Dr. Seuss
Great quote. Thanks.
antlers,
You're welcome. Coincidentally, I just "tweaked" you over on your Surviving thread!
Thanks Guys, and Gals. There is so much comfort in knowing I can count on you to keep me straight and lift me up when I need it.
Today was better. I actually began feeling better as soon as STBX in-laws departed. And, in a way, that's sad b/c despite my STBX FIL's typical immature behavior, I actually got along with both my STBX in-laws very well. Strangely, they seemed more like an extra set of parents to me.
Was pretty busy today, and that's a very welcome thing. I feel stronger and more in control this week than last week. Last week was tough. But, I have accepted it for what it was, and will keep moving on.
I wish all of us peace, strength and wisdom.
((((giving)))))
think about you alot...last week was very bad for me too...I'm feeling a tiny bit better but the rollercoaster ride is not done yet.
thanks for being there to check on me too...
((((giving)))))
think about you alot...last week was very bad for me too...I'm feeling a tiny bit better but the rollercoaster ride is not done yet.
thanks for being there to check on me too...
We are all here to help each other. Hang in there. You are stronger than this current challenge.
gima,
You are doing great! The way you handle yourself in those situations, really defines who you are as a man and a Father. Your children will definately remember how you handled yourself in those situations. They will remember a strong, confident, Father. I'm proud of you! Stay strong my friend.
Thanks SD. You are doing very well as well.
Feeling better this week. Want to keep a PMA. Still don't feel like talking to W. Too much hurt, anger.
I have a C session tomorrow. New C. Nothing wrong with the old one, but he was across town and not covered byhealth insurance. New one is closer and is covered. Looking forward to the C session.
Gonna put my head down today and work, work, work.
Good luck with the new C!
Thanks EB.
Just got the kids down to bed. Gonna doa little work tonight and surf the web.
Got in a good run on the treadmill just before putting the kids to bed. Needed that.
Pretty good day, all in all.
Still working through some anger. Just below the surface. And I really don't want to carry that around.
I'm with you on getting the anger out. The treadmill is a good place to work through some things.
Personally, I'm just tired. Tired of this whole thing and want to take a break from it. I commend you for finding the energy and not just crawling in a hole somewhere.
Thanks EB.
Personally, I'm just tired. Tired of this whole thing and want to take a break from it. I commend you for finding the energy and not just crawling in a hole somewhere.
Yes, me too. But, I will have time to rest after this is all done.
Have a C appointment with a new C today - actually the one who was going to be our MC until W decided she never said she would go to MC for reconciliation. Looking forward to it. And I need it.
I have noticed from our financial records, W returned to a C (don't know who) in mid-December, which would have been right after we had the talk where she said she never agreed to go to MC for reconciliation.
I am trying to focus on me and the kids now. Sad that W is not a part of my future, at least not in a positive way. But, that is her choice. I have a life to reclaim and live. And I plan on doing just that.
You are on the right path. But also realize that you are never going to be done. Don't let what I am saying change anything you are doing. Just keep it in the deep recesses of your mind
I agree, keep moving forward keep your affairs in order and protect yourself
You are on the right path. But also realize that you are never going to be done. Don't let what I am saying change anything you are doing. Just keep it in the deep recesses of your mind
I'm with you OP. I know, b/c we have two wonderful children together, W will never totally be out of my life. We may not be M'd to each other soon, but we will always be our childrens' parents.
gima,
I've admired your attitude, strength, good intentions and noble character throughout your (our) journey(s) these past six months or so.
Keep on your path. It is the right one.
Cheers.
You are on the right path. But also realize that you are never going to be done. Don't let what I am saying change anything you are doing. Just keep it in the deep recesses of your mind
I'm with you OP. I know, b/c we have two wonderful children together, W will never totally be out of my life. We may not be M'd to each other soon, but we will always be our childrens' parents.
My W has been gone for nearly 2.5mos. I think she may finally be realizing this. There isn't the clean break to some glorious new life when you have kids together.
gima,
I've admired your attitude, strength, good intentions and noble character throughout your (our) journey(s) these past six months or so.
Keep on your path. It is the right one.
Cheers.
Thanks Gardener. I have admired your character throughout your ordeal. And I know I will be relying on your experience as I navigate mine.
Well, hell, how's
that gonna work out? I've been relying on you and
your steadfastness for months!
You guys reminded me of that old "Don't follow me, I'm lost" bumper sticker that I used to see.
"Follow me, I'm right behind you."
Always liked that one.
Yeah, yeah.
So, S comes to me last night and tells me W told him he could not trust one set of his God parents (naturally the ones who have told her what she is doing is wrong) to do what they say they will, but S can trust his other set of God parents (of course, the W of that couple has been one of W's advisors and I know this "Christian" woman has told W a few years back that I don't support W) to do what they say. To say I was angry last night is one of the understatements of the year.
I decided the best thing to do is calm down and talk to W about this some time today or tomorrow, preferably today. I'm still angry, but I'm in control.
I see this as W trying to pit S against one set of God parents and emphasize a strong bond with the set who are "on W's side." God, that bothers me.
And yet again, I will have to be the one to initiate the serious discussion. No sweat, since I'm the one with a backbone these days.
I decided the best thing to do is calm down
Most definitly
I see this as W trying to pit S against one set of God parents and emphasize a strong bond with the set who are "on W's side."
MOST DEFINITLY.
IMHO, if you can see your way through this. Just let it go and stay NC. Much better outcome!
This is really just a test to try to get to you!
Need some help guys. Here's the deal.
Yesterday, S and I went to a bookstore, and I bought Dr. Seuess' "Oh, The Places You'll Go!" I wrote a note in it to my kids to tell them "To S and D. This Looked like a great book for us all. Love, Dad."
This morning, W goes to Church, and the kids stay home with me. As D and I are reading the new book, D tells me mom took a picture of the note I wrote "b/c she liked it so much."
I'm pissed. The realization that a harmless, and very loving, note to my children is being "documented" for a L to try to make something out of it sickens me. Who is this woman my W has become? And, on the other hand, will her L simply think she's crazy for documenting something like this.
Ok, enough with the unanswerable questions (I don't really care about those). The issue is whether to confront her with this just so she knows I know? That she's doing this is reprehensible. That she's doing this in front of my D is unforgiveable.
GIMA, I know that you're pissed right now. Think of it like this... what are the results going to be from confronting her? You'll get some satisfaction out of it... and she will get justification of your actions.
At least she has shown some insight into lying to the kids about her intentions and not making them known.
IMHO, it's not worth it. FIDO.
Don't react, don't confront her.
Your note sounds like
evidence of a loving dad!Imagine what her L will say when(if!) she shows him a picture of this note. "Wow, GIMA is really a terrible father?!?"
Your W may be trying to get a reaction from you with this crap.
IF, you are really concerned about a legal position, then ask your L about it, then you'll know where you stand. Don't react to this. Let her spend her time taking pictures for useless points.
Ready2Change recommended the book
"Divorce Poison" to me, and its been helpful. Knowing you, you've likely already read it, but I thought I would just mention it.
Thanks Gnosis and Awoken. I'm good with that. Just so petty. Sad and pitiful, really.
Man, I deserve so much better. We all do. Maybe it's times like these that are meant to show me I am worthy of so much more.
GIMA---I have also been struggling with things like this. The unfortunate reality is there is little/nothing that you can do from a legal perspective to stop them from saying/doing things to put you into a negative light.
One thing that has worked for me is to concentrate and focus on always being a positive and stable influence on your children. Now I say that from the perspective of a dad of one 2 year old little boy. But that is what everyone tells me over and over. And that is what I have chosen to put my faith in--that over time you can just be a better parent and that will draw your kids to you.
Not worth it to sink to her level, and YES you do deserve more than this and somewhere we will all find that!
gima,
I decided the best thing to do is calm down and talk to W about this some time today or tomorrow, preferably today. I'm still angry, but I'm in control.
Invoke the 48 hour rule.
I see this as W trying to pit S against one set of God parents and emphasize a strong bond with the set who are "on W's side." God, that bothers me.
You can't control it and the fact that S told you tells me it ain't gonna work. At all. Ignore it. Don't take the bait, even if it is second-hand bait.
And yet again, I will have to be the one to initiate the serious discussion. No sweat, since I'm the one with a backbone these days.
Maybe you're right. If you want to address it, consider framing and communicating a Boundary on it and then walk away.
Good luck.
EB,
You guys reminded me of that old "Don't follow me, I'm lost" bumper sticker that I used to see.
Not really. gima and I are sort of driving in tandem, alternating between who's in front and who's behind.
That's both funny AND true.
gima,
I'd ignore the Seuss one. Choose your battles.
A photo of it? For what? If for some kind of "legal" documentation, her L will probably laugh it off.
And surely a judge would.
A great book though. I bought & gave it to each of my sons the day they left for college.
Think I'll buy myself my own copy on the way home from court Tuesday!
And, friend,
Something for you over at your Surviving post.
Rough night last night folks. Went to bed, and as I was praying, a wave of emotion just came pouring out. Probably more grieving the death of the M and the break up of the family. Just stood in the bathroom in the dark and let it all out. Thanks to a towel, very little noise - didn't want W to see me that way or, especially, my kids.
I'm better this morning. Still a little down, but I am trying to get my focus off of stbxw and on things more positive - like my kids and planning my future.
I know that no matter what, I will not feel lonely or be alone. I trust that God has a plan for me, and that plan does not involve me being unhappy. It just seems so far away right now.
Last night, I think a lot of my emotion came from being fatigued from this process and simply missing experiencing closeness with my stbxw - not physically, but emotionally. The lack of intimacy is something that creates an emptiness. I can counteract that to a point, but the fact remains that that part of my life, at least for now, is gone.
HUGS GIMA!!!
(((((gima))))))
We know for certain God has a plan for you and nowhere in that plan is unhappiness.
You're a strong man and your children are blessed to have you.
Luv
(((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((GIMA)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
Tears are healthy. Crying out to God in your sorrow is the ultimate in healthy. Feeding your spirit is just as important as feeding your mind and body. Keep doing that. Bible intake, prayer, community with fellow believers, all of these are imperative especially now.
Do you belong to a small group at your church? If not, why not? There have to be a number of men's groups there. Join one, commune with others. You don't even have to share what is going on in your current situation if you don't want to right now, but just being in the presence of other men who believe is food to your spirit.
God has a plan. You may not see it right now, but He will reveal it to you. Watch for it. You know the best position to see what God's wishes for you is? On your knees with your face to the floor, praising Him.
GIMA, I keep you in my prayers daily and I hope that you can feel the waves of love and support from your friends here.
Thanks guys. This is just the sucky part of "embracing the suck."
All of your support means a lot to me. Thank you all.
Mishka, I am looking at new churchs for myself. And, yes, I am looking for a group to join up with for support - whether it's a D group or a mens' Bible study group. I agree that would be very good for me right now.
I know I've said it before, but if there is a church in your area offering DivorceCare do yourself a favor and go. It is by far the best support you could ever find. All biblically based with guidance from facilitators who have been through D. Typically it is led by a couple who are in their 2nd M and can led support.
I know I've said it before, but if there is a church in your area offering DivorceCare do yourself a favor and go. It is by far the best support you could ever find. All biblically based with guidance from facilitators who have been through D. Typically it is led by a couple who are in their 2nd M and can led support.
There is one a friend of mine is going to, but I missed the registration and sign up deadline. I will keep looking.
It's too bad that you live so far north. The church I attended at has it perpetually so there is never a deadline. Join whenever and cycle through all the videos. You eventually catch all of them. We are actually starting a second group because there are too many people in the original one (sadly) and I am facilitating it with a man from the group. We're good friends so it will make it comfortable enough to teach it.
I hope you can find one in your area.
Shoot me a msg in the alt about this program.
Came home early so I could see the kids before going to my Divorce Care meeting tonight. On the way home, my L calls to tell me that stbxw's L wants to go to mediation rather than talk now to see if we can resolve the case. So, unless stbxw changes her mind, we will be paying 3 L's not the 2 we really can't afford!
I get home, see the kids. Hug them and ask how their day went. Then, the phone rings. I answer it and it is the stbxw of one of my friends (friends stbxw is in a full out PA and is unashamed about it - she's "entitled" to it). I know this woman is a toxic influence on my stbxw and I know this harlot has said some very ugly things about me. I answer with a "Hi," She says, in a really sappy sweet voice, oh, hi, how are you. I don't say anything. She says well, uh, is Lisa there? Yeah. And I hand the phone to my stbxw. Funny, my stbxw didn't want to talk to the adulterer. Whatever.
SO, I bugged out of the house, and am at a coffee shop until my Divorce Care meeting tonight. W seemed surprised (and she should be) that I was "going out." She has forfeited her right to know where I am going. As long as the kids are ok, then to hell with her. You want to be on your own sweetie, well this is what it will be like. Enjoy.
I am in control, despite my snarky post. Hurt, yes. But, in control.
Looking forward to the meeting tonight.
Hi GIMA. Ya' do whatcha gotta do to get through it! Stay strong for your kiddos and yourself.
I hope you have a dynamic, sharing group GIMA. Take care of you buddy!
Wow GIMA, you're right. We really are in similar spots. After we talked last, I was so impressed with your quiet strength. I was thinking "man, I gotta get it together like GIMA!".
I'm sorry you're having a hard time too, and you know I understand.
You're advise to me in my thread was really helpful today, so once again thanks!
Have a great meet tonite.
Hey GIMA - wishing you a good DivorceCare experience - I found that it was really good to sit down and share experiences with people going through this. As a friend told me, nobody really knows what it's like unless they've been through it.
SO, I bugged out of the house, and am at a coffee shop until my Divorce Care meeting tonight. W seemed surprised (and she should be) that I was "going out." She has forfeited her right to know where I am going.
W (well, STBX I guess) asked what I was doing Friday night; I said "monster truck rally." That pretty much ended the conversation.
Good thoughts your way, man -
Thanks guys.
Had a good meeting tonight, and, by providence, the topic was anger. How appropriate for me.
When I came home, I decided to talk to stbxw about why mediation is not necessary. I explained that I thought it was unnecessary to bring another L into the situation to get us to do what two reasonable adults should be able to do. I also told her I was prepared to mediate if that was the only way she felt we could resolve our differences. She seemed receptive, but we shall see.
And, I am feeling oddly at peace with myself about the discussion with stbxw. Gardener, I thought of you as she talked to me b/c whoever is behind those cold, dead eyes is not the woman I fell in love with and to whom I promised my life.
gima,
Rough night last night folks. Went to bed, and as I was praying, a wave of emotion just came pouring out. Probably more grieving the death of the M and the break up of the family. Just stood in the bathroom in the dark and let it all out. Thanks to a towel, very little noise - didn't want W to see me that way or, especially, my kids.
Last night, I think a lot of my emotion came from being fatigued from this process and simply missing experiencing closeness with my stbxw - not physically, but emotionally. The lack of intimacy is something that creates an emptiness. I can counteract that to a point, but the fact remains that that part of my life, at least for now, is gone.
And sometimes the body expels -
forces to the surface - what the heart, mind, emotions try to suppress so that we can continue functioning.
mishka, How true. And well put.
Amen
Tears are healthy. Crying out to God in your sorrow is the ultimate in healthy.
gima,
She has forfeited her right to know where I am going. As long as the kids are ok, then to hell with her. You want to be on your own sweetie, well this is what it will be like. Enjoy.
I am in control, despite my snarky post. Hurt, yes. But, in control.
Looking forward to the meeting tonight.
Good to hear. Healthy attitude.
gima,
Gardener, I thought of you as she talked to me b/c whoever is behind those cold, dead eyes is not the woman I fell in love with and to whom I promised my life.
Ah, yes, when the eyes go cold and dead. Or, as I had started to say this summer, "She of the cold, dead eyes and disdainful look."
Doesn't matter, now.
No more STBXW
Or my more recent TGSTBXW.
XW.
Hmmm....
And sometimes the body expels - forces to the surface - what the heart, mind, emotions try to suppress so that we can continue functioning.
Yeah, think of it as a similar experience like after you've eaten a pot load of beans. You're expelling gas until you drop your load. After that you feel like a million bucks again.
Sorry Gman and GIMA, I couldn't resist!
gima,
Gardener, I thought of you as she talked to me b/c whoever is behind those cold, dead eyes is not the woman I fell in love with and to whom I promised my life.
Ah, yes, when the eyes go cold and dead. Or, as I had started to say this summer, "She of the cold, dead eyes and disdainful look."
Doesn't matter, now.
No more STBXW
Or my more recent TGSTBXW.
XW.
Strange thing is there was a short part when I was talking to her tonight when her eyes welled up with tears. Of course, could just be her guilt.
gima,
Strange thing is there was a short part when I was talking to her tonight when her eyes welled up with tears. Of course, could just be her guilt.
My guess would be guilt, too. You may recall that in one rare, rather benign phone call 3 weeks ago, X suddenly burst out crying,"I never meant for this to happen. Never meant to cause all this strife," etc. etc.
The following week on the phone when she acknowledged not talking to me at all about her unhappiness (which still hasn't been explained or described to me) but instead admitted to confiding in daughter for
months pre-bomb, I said, "I wish you had told me." She replied, "So do I. I wish I had, too."
Those two brief glimpses of remorse (talk about the ol' "too little, too late") were quickly replaced by the business-as-usual coldness and ultimately, right up to "the dotted line" today, meant absolutely nothing.
Yeah, I know Gardener. I know she's gone. I think I just need to convince my heart of that. And I will. With time.
Yeah, I know Gardener. I know she's gone. I think I just need to convince my heart of that. And I will. With time.
I don't know...maybe you should stop trying to convince your heart for a while and allow some time for your heart to convince you.
Oh, and p.s., your bathroom scene with towel last night was identical to my kitchen scene with dishtowel upon returning home after D this morning.
I know exactly how you feel and what it's like and how very, very down deep it comes from.
Oh, and p.s., your bathroom scene with towel last night was identical to my kitchen scene with dishtowel upon returning home after D this morning.
I know exactly how you feel and what it's like and how very, very down deep it comes from.
(((Gardener)))
Yeah, I know Gardener. I know she's gone. I think I just need to convince my heart of that. And I will. With time.
I don't know...maybe you should stop trying to convince your heart for a while and allow some time for your heart to convince you.
Oh, and p.s., your bathroom scene with towel last night was identical to my kitchen scene with dishtowel upon returning home after D this morning.
I know exactly how you feel and what it's like and how very, very down deep it comes from.
Thanks buddy. I know you know how I feel. Sometimes, it just helps knowing someone else knows what you are going through.
Can't sleep. I will give myself a break from this madness for a while. Still have to keep pushing for an early, and as inexpensive as possible, resolution.
After thinking about the discussion I had last night with stbxw about mediation, I have an observation or two.
Stbxw has not planned any of the details of what her post-D life will look like. She has looked at townhomes in the same school district we are in now, but that's about it.
I shouldn't be surprised, and in a way, I am glad she hasn't looked at the details. Now, she must face the brutal reality of what post-D life will likely look like.
But this also underscores the lack of thought and the outright emotion that is driving this decision. I know I can't fix her or even persuade her, but it all seems so avaoidable. So, surmountable. And, that must be the critical difference b/w she and I: I want it to work, and know it can, but she doesn't.
Stbxw has also returned to the counselor she saw 6 months before she ever told me there was a problem. Based on what stbxw has told me about her prior counseling, this counselor is basically just giving her the green light to divorce me. Both of the C's I have had remarked at how wrong it was that stbxw's C did not try to involve me early on.
And, yesterday, when I got home early, phone rings and I piick it up. It is one of stbxw's friends who is D'ing her H and is in a flagrant PA. Toxic is the best word to describe this person. Stbxw is surrounding herself with people who "validate" her decision and not those who challenge or questions her. I understand why, but it is so sad.
Same thing here- it's terrible. But I guess I would do the same thing. I currently distance myself from people suggesting divorce.
My W is friends w/ a D attorney, MIL is w/ her she's been widowed and D- terrible marriages, new OM is divorced, and the rest of her friends are pretty much single. Two of them are exceptions, both had troubled M's and worked it out.
But of course W doesn't wasnt to hear it from them- she's sold them all on how terrible I am and how unhappy she's been.
I shouldn't be surprised, and in a way, I am glad she hasn't looked at the details. Now, she must face the brutal reality of what post-D life will likely look like.
She's not sure this is what she wants. Keep doing what you are doing but let her know she has the option to stop this at anytime. Load up on the truth darts and use them surgically.
but it all seems so avoidable. So, surmountable. And, that must be the critical difference b/w she and I: I want it to work, and know it can, but she doesn't.
Yes.
That's the critical difference; it's why we must move on.
She's not sure this is what she wants. Keep doing what you are doing but let her know she has the option to stop this at anytime.
I think GIMA and I are in really similar places. It's easy to lose hope, and to stop doing DB'ing. Especially once the D papers are filed.
What's the best way to let WAS know she has the option to stop this at anytime?
(forgive the hijack; I think this is relevant to us both)
What's the best way to let WAS know she has the option to stop this at anytime?
the best way IDK......
I said something like this, the best I remember.
"Since you filed for D, I now have a gun pointed at my head. So to protect myself I have hired a gun to protect myself. If you continue down this path I will fight it every step of the way to protect myself and keep my family intact. You can do whatever you want but I want to be clear that this is your decision to end our marriage and tear our family apart. Since you started the lawsuit then you have the ability to stop it at any time."
You have to say it with conviction and under control, then pull the hood up on the spew raincoat.
gima,
She's not sure this is what she wants. Keep doing what you are doing but let her know she has the option to stop this at anytime. Load up on the truth darts and use them surgically.
I agree she often seems ambivalent but thus far I've chalked it up to gima's having been so decent and accommodating throughout followed by, for lack of a better term, the "new" gima. That and, of course, her penchant for keeping up appearances.
So, no, don't close any doors completely (or at least don't lock them if you do). However,
this:
I know I can't fix her or even persuade her, but it all seems so avaoidable. So, surmountable.... I want it to work, and know it can, but she doesn't.
is the LBH's never-ending dilemma and constant mindset: It
always comes back down to/keeps coming back to
this. I came right out and said -and emailed - as much to my ex not two weeks ago.
And kept thinking it in court yesterday.
gima, just keep following your heart. And please take my comments above with a very big grain of salt, coming as they do from someone who has just been so reluctantly - and needlessly - Divorced.
What's the best way to let WAS know she has the option to stop this at anytime?
the best way IDK......
I said something like this, the best I remember.
"Since you filed for D, I now have a gun pointed at my head. So to protect myself I have hired a gun to protect myself. If you continue down this path I will fight it every step of the way to protect myself and keep my family intact. You can do whatever you want but I want to be clear that this is your decision to end our marriage and tear our family apart. Since you started the lawsuit then you have the ability to stop it at any time."
You have to say it with conviction and under control, then pull the hood up on the spew raincoat.
Coach, thanks for the input, as always.
I had this conversation with my W. Was the last conversation we have had since last night.
Part of the reason I asked about where she would live last night was to get her thinking about what it would be like. And to let her know I am not afraid of being D'd. I don't want to be D'd, but that's not MY decision. I will handle whatever comes my way.
One other thing I did that I did not put in my post was after I was done, I said to her, "I've asked you questions. Do you have ANYTHING you want to ask me." She said no, which is what I thought she'd say, but I wanted to let her know, yet again, that I have nothing to hide. If she has a concern or question, I want it said that she can ask me.
Part of the reason I asked about where she would live last night was to get her thinking about what it would be like. And to let her know I am not afraid of being D'd. I don't want to be D'd, but that's not MY decision. I will handle whatever comes my way.
One other thing I did that I did not put in my post was after I was done, I said to her, "I've asked you questions. Do you have ANYTHING you want to ask me." She said no, which is what I thought she'd say, but I wanted to let her know, yet again, that I have nothing to hide. If she has a concern or question, I want it said that she can ask me.
Now you are leading. She's watching you very closely right now.
I said something like this, the best I remember.
"Since you filed for D, I now have a gun pointed at my head. So to protect myself I have hired a gun to protect myself. If you continue down this path I will fight it every step of the way to protect myself and keep my family intact. You can do whatever you want but I want to be clear that this is your decision to end our marriage and tear our family apart. Since you started the lawsuit then you have the ability to stop it at any time."
Very good. Admirably good. And, of course, most of all,
successfully good.
And, btw, Coach, no glasses, mustache or flower yesterday!
Part of the reason I asked about where she would live last night was to get her thinking about what it would be like. And to let her know I am not afraid of being D'd. I don't want to be D'd, but that's not MY decision. I will handle whatever comes my way.
One other thing I did that I did not put in my post was after I was done, I said to her, "I've asked you questions. Do you have ANYTHING you want to ask me." She said no, which is what I thought she'd say, but I wanted to let her know, yet again, that I have nothing to hide. If she has a concern or question, I want it said that she can ask me.
Now you are leading. She's watching you very closely right now.
Hope you're right friend. Feels good to lead, but she doesn't seem to have any desire to do anything other than D.
But, I will keep forging ahead.
But, I will keep forging ahead.
I have no doubt. One of the many things I've admired about you these past months.
Don't be so sure that her C is leading her down the D path. I felt my C was doing that and she did a lot of validating of my wife's desire to D but by your being strong and not fearing the D it may set in a new reality for your W. You are doing good! Lead the way gently. I am not so convinced that your W wants a D. She does want to get rid of the pain and you do represent the pain but she needs as much time and space as possible to come to that realization that YOU are not the real problem.
Hijack:
Coach,
You still around?
Question:
Early on you told me you had set (page x) as your opening page whenever you opened DB.
How is that done? I want a certain page to come up when I click on/open DB.
Or maybe gima or anyone else might know?
Thanks.
Go to that page copy the url and bookmark that url. When you go to that bookmark you get the page you want to come up.
NEVER MIND: Figured it out. Thanks.
Coach,
You still around?
Question:Early on you told me you had set (page x) as your opening page whenever you opened DB.How is that done? I want a certain page to come up when I click on/open DB.Or maybe gima or anyone else might know?
Thanks.
Hijack:
Coach,
You still around?
Question:
Early on you told me you had set (page x) as your opening page whenever you opened DB.
How is that done? I want a certain page to come up when I click on/open DB.
Or maybe gima or anyone else might know?
Thanks.
I don't know that one buddy.
Don't be so sure that her C is leading her down the D path. I felt my C was doing that and she did a lot of validating of my wife's desire to D but by your being strong and not fearing the D it may set in a new reality for your W. You are doing good! Lead the way gently. I am not so convinced that your W wants a D. She does want to get rid of the pain and you do represent the pain but she needs as much time and space as possible to come to that realization that YOU are not the real problem.
I wish I could tell you I thought she was unsure of what she wants. I think she is struggling with her decision, but I don't believe she will deviate from it.
Trust me, I WANT to believe there is hope. I just don't see or feel it.
Trust me, I WANT to believe there is hope. I just don't see or feel it.
I am not trying to give you hope. Keep your expectations at zero. You are doing fine. Don't let what I am saying alter your path. You are on the right one.
Trust me, I WANT to believe there is hope. I just don't see or feel it.
I am not trying to give you hope. Keep your expectations at zero. You are doing fine. Don't let what I am saying alter your path. You are on the right one.
Even if I had hope on that issues, which I don't, I would not alter my path.
Thanks.
Doing much better tonight. It's amazing what moving my focus from her and our past to my future can do. Emotion follows thought.
gima, I'm glad.
Doing much better tonight. It's amazing what moving my focus from her and our past to my future can do. Emotion follows thought.
I have yet to read up on that whole cognitive dissonance theory. I must.
gima, I'm glad.
Doing much better tonight. It's amazing what moving my focus from her and our past to my future can do. Emotion follows thought.
I have yet to read up on that whole cognitive dissonance theory. I must.
I highly recommend it. It's strange how sometimes we get so swept up in our situations, we stop using the tools we learned. At least I do.
All day, I have consciously made myself focus forward and not behind.
When you get a minute can you re-point me to where I might find it?
No rush.
Thanks.
When you get a minute can you re-point me to where I might find it?
No rush.
Thanks.
The best explanation I found was on wikipedia - search "cognitive dissonance" and "cognitive distortion."
Better day today. Maintaining a focus on the positive things in my future, while keeping myself from looking at the past had helped tremendously.
I have dinner out tonight with a friend. So, I won't be home before the kids go to sleep. I haven't seen this frined in a while, and I'm looking forward to it.
Here's to looking forward!!!!!!
It's good to see that you are getting out and taking time for yourself. Have fun tonight.
It's always great to reconnect with a friend you haven't seen in a while. Have a wonderful evening and try to steer the convo away from the craziness in life and toward interesting,fun things you both have going on.
gima,
Better day today. Maintaining a focus on the positive things in my future, while keeping myself from looking at the past had helped tremendously.
We're in tandem, again! You recently posted (sorry, I forget where) exacty what I've been looking forward to/concentrating my thoughts on:
I would add what I did, and it has worked for me. I made myself stop focusing on W and our past and why W refuses to work on the M. Instead, I have devoted my mental and emotional energy to the positive things that lie ahead for me:
-being independent again
-deciding where I want to live and what type of housing I want - condo? House?
-realizing things I want to do but haven't
-realizing there is a world of women out there who will be interested in me and, at some point, one of them will be the right one for me.
-thinking of all the things (trips/activities) I will decide to do with my kids.
An
exciting GAL/180 (for me, at least!).
Thanks Gardener. And, I agree we seem to be in the same spot more and more. And, we will both be just fine and very happy with time.
Had a great dinner last night with a couple of friends (H and W). I used to play a lot of golf together. I spotted his M problems early on. And his drinking too much. The H is on his 3rd M.
Didn't know what to expect when I met them for dinner. But, miraculously, he proceeded to tell me how he had been on a remarkably similar path as me - severly curtailed his drinking, has renewed his relationship with God, and has recognized the problems in his M and he and his W were working on those. This is the last thing I expected to hear when I met them for dinner, but I am really proud of them and very happy for them. And a tinge jealous that his W didn't run from her problems, instead, choosing to fight for her M.
I am constantly amazed (and I shouldn't be) at how God works in peoples' lives. And examples like last night make me very happy and strengthen my faith in God and people.
This morning, as a treat (really for me), I decided to take the kids to school rather than having them ride the bus. They were excited, and we joked the entire trip to school. They are truly wonderful.
My PMA is good. Still focusing on the positive that lies ahead. My friends last night, mostly the H, reminded me to stay open to the possibility W could come back. I told him I was open to that, but she has to choose to walk through that door. I no longer stand at the threshold waiting for her. I am moving forward with my life while remaining open to working on the M. But, at this point, I have "done the work" on me and continue to do so. W, not so much. And only SHE can do that.
Happy Friday everyone!
(())
I couldn't agree w/ you more- it is sometimes painful and a thing of envy to see others cross into our domain- but pull out together.
Obv. I am very happy for all of them- but also a bit jealous.
There's two ways of looking at it.
1- there is something we are supposed to learn, and have the terrible priveledge of learning this lesson under our circumstances.
2- the other way is not learning our lesson and faulting our WAS for the lack of committment- and for making us miserable
Most of us will have moments of both feelings- but the goal is to save ourselves and be better for our experience.
I'm in your boat and I'm here for you- we'll be OK
Still working through the D process. Remaining dark, very dark.
I only speak to W if it involves the kids or money. Otherwise, I simply ignore her.
Really trying to keep my focus on the positives in my future.
So, do I remain dark (as dark as you can while living under the same roof)? Seems unless and until she shows she may have doubt about proceeding with the D (and there are NONE of those), this is the best course of action.
Honestly GIMA, if staying dark feels good to you then do it. If it's making you uncomfortable then don't. It's all about you now. Her reactions mean nothing, right?
Honestly GIMA, if staying dark feels good to you then do it. If it's making you uncomfortable then don't. It's all about you now. Her reactions mean nothing, right?
Yes, you're right. I think I am slipping back into thinking I can DO something to bring her back. Just the emotions. Intellectually, I know better.
My focus is just in the wrong place.
You are doing fine stay on your path! Steady as she goes, don't rock the boat.
Thanks OP. Just needing some reinforcement this am. Better now.
Hey there, GIMA! Snow on the ground?? Ours is almost totally melted now.
Will y'all have to sell the house b/c of the D? And have y'all discussed who gets what in terms of furniture and household items? I would love to see you driving the bus on those issues. I wonder what the nuts and bolts of all that Reality would bring about.
Greek
Greek,
We got about 4 inches of snow last night. Ice now, that's melting.
We have discussed nothing re splitting property. Her L is pushing for mediatio. We are pushing for settlement to be discussed now. She filed, she tells us big items she wants - major issues. I agree I will lead on splitting the smaller, yet very sentimental issues - Christmas ornaments, etc.).
I am still very dark and plan to stay that course. You disagree?
Little frustrating now b/c I am not "doing" anything. Not that I can cause her to change.
Oh, Greek, the house MUST be sold. We agree @ that.
GIMA,
Have you seen the movie "Its Complicated"?
Saw it last night. Script is written by anyone of us here on DB.
I Laughed the whole time. If you haven't seen it add it to your GAL activities.
Oh, Greek, the house MUST be sold. We agree @ that.
Does that mean the D isn't final until the house is sold?
OP,
Will add the movie to my list. On the house thing, answer is not necessarily. Once we have an agreement, the judge just needs to sign off on the decree. House sale would not have to hold that up.
So you would be D living in the same house?
Just wondering?
Oh, Greek, the house MUST be sold. We agree @ that.
Why don't YOU put it on the market? Now.
OP,
Coach and I saw "It's Complicated". Agree! Hilarious! What I liked about it is the juxtaposition of Martin's character and Baldwin's character. Beautiful illustration of a man who 'listens' and one who...doesn't.
GIMA ~ dark is appropriate. She is divorcing you. Dark is in order. But I'm also thinking that there might be some business you can start working on now to keep your LIFE moving forward. House is on of them.
Greek
OP,
Unfortunately, a very real possibility.
Greek,
I agree. We talked earlier this week and the house going on the market by march was one of the topics. All I can do is keep moving forward as if D is the result. And it IS it seems to me.
Why don't YOU put it on the market? Now.
I am going to ask. Why. Do you think that is going to make a difference? Houses aren't selling now. My thought might be to tie the D to the sale of the house, if you want to slow down the process.
Just did my Valentine's shopping... for the kids and myself. At least I know I'll like the iTunes gift card I bought myself! Got the kids some cool stuff too.
Oh, Greek, the house MUST be sold. We agree @ that.
Why don't YOU put it on the market? Now.
Greek,
The house is in both our names, so legally, I cannot list it without her consent. Really, I cannot sell it without her consent.
Also, as for bringing reality to her, not sure that will have any impact. She told me earlier in the week (when we talked about the house and resolving the D) that she had already been looking at townhomes in the same area - she wants to keep the school district the same for the kids.
gima,
Greek,
The house is in both our names, so legally, I cannot list it without her consent.
Then why not get started interviewing agents and brokers and giving her summaries of each discussion?
gima,
Greek,
The house is in both our names, so legally, I cannot list it without her consent.
Then why not get started interviewing agents and brokers and giving her summaries of each discussion?
I agree guys. We have a lot of work on the house to do before we can list it. So, first things first, to work on the house.
Happy Valentine's Day folks.
I got the kids some stuff yesterday. D6 is thrilled with the small purse I got her with treats in it. S10 still asleep - too much Olympics last night. But, he will love the hat I got him with little treats as well.
One surprise this morning. As I was making my bed, D6 brought me a new coffee cup that had hearts on it. I asked her who it was from, so D6 goes to ask W. D6: "From me and S10." Of course it was.
I am surprised W would buy something from the kids for me. I really am. I did not pick up anything similar for her, and I don't regret that decision. When we are D'd, I won't do that. So, why should now be any different? And the answer is it shouldn't.
Not going to try to figure anything out about W by her making this small gesture. Just wasted energy. End result is the same.
Chin up everyone. I can honestly say today is the first "holiday/occasion" since the bomb that has not bothered me. We will all be happy on this day as soon as we decide to.
gima,
I agree guys. We have a lot of work on the house to do before we can list it. So, first things first, to work on the house.
I should have explained: two reasons for bringing in/interviewing agents/brokers right now:
1 W may think "whoa, man's taking action! This may move along quicker than I'd like."
2 When I did my walk-thru w/broker with my to-do list firmly in hand, he eliminated a good 1/3 of it with comments such as,"Don't bother/not needed, prospects won't care, no ROI, waste of time," etc. Saved
me time and $!
Also, good to read this: even more progress!
Not going to try to figure anything out about W by her making this small gesture. Just wasted energy. End result is the same.
Great!
Happy Valentine's day to you, too, friend. If you didn't catch flowmom's contribution to cutter's Valentine's Day thread while you were over there, here it is:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9ibMj_DIzs
Definitely no need to try to figure out why w's gesture means. I go back to appearances on this one. Here's my little bit of mind reading....."Hmm. If I get him this mug with hearts on it from the kids and he takes it to work to use then people ask him who it's from, he'll say it's from his kids but they will all know that I really bought it and then I look like a good person still."
See? I think like a woman and trust me, if she's trying to maintain appearance that is what her thought process took her to.
Have a great day!
@ Gardener, that thought occured to me after my post. And I agree. Time to talk with the realtor.
@mishka, you may be right. But, I have no plans of ever using it. Just like I have no plans to have any of the heart shaped cake she baked and did not have any of the "special" cinnamon rolls (old tradtion) she made this am. I made myself a great omelette - high protein, no carb - gotta keep slimming down if I want to attract the "nice" women - "nice" looking and, more importantly, just plain "nice.". Her loss.
Feeling pretty strong today guys. Thanks.
Had a great day with S10. He and I went to a movie today. Now watching the Olympics. Nothing that special, but I REALLY just enjoyed being with him.
Sounds like a wonderful day GIMA. What movie did you see?
Sounds like a wonderful day GIMA. What movie did you see?
The Percy Jackson film, The Lightning Thief. S10 has read most of those books. We had a great time.
Damn, the blahs are back. Maybe it's just Monday, but I am feeling a little down today. Handling it, but it's there.
Trying to focus on work is tough. Kids are out of school today and tomorrow. Might head home early today to play with them.
Contemplating what loife will be like with the kids around less. Maybe that's what has me where I am today.
Focus on the positives...
Yes, focus on the positives. I know it's hard but you can do it.
If you can get home to be with them early that would be great. Are your kids interested in the Olympics at all? If so, I have a fun idea for you.
Stop off at the store on your way home and pick up some US flags, party horns or cowbells, and hot chocolate. There is downhill racing tonight as well as snowboard cross and pairs figure skating. The kids can drink hot chocolate like they are out on the slopes watching, ring the cowbells or blow the party horns while the skiers are racing and wave their flags. Get them invested in the outcome. Make it fun for them!
Yes, focus on the positives. I know it's hard but you can do it.
If you can get home to be with them early that would be great. Are your kids interested in the Olympics at all? If so, I have a fun idea for you.
Stop off at the store on your way home and pick up some US flags, party horns or cowbells, and hot chocolate. There is downhill racing tonight as well as snowboard cross and pairs figure skating. The kids can drink hot chocolate like they are out on the slopes watching, ring the cowbells or blow the party horns while the skiers are racing and wave their flags. Get them invested in the outcome. Make it fun for them!
I LOVE this idea. S10 is interested (as am I), but D6 is ALWAYS up for a party! Thanks Mishka.
You are very welcome! I'd do it myself but my son thinks he's just too cool to be jumping around the living room with horns and cowbells.
I'm not, I'd do it in a heartbeat. He just shouts at the TV like I do so we have lots of fun.
ENJOY!
(((GIMA)))
Excellent advice you are given here...Sounds like a wonderful plan and I hope you have a great night!
(((GIMA)))
Excellent advice you are given here...Sounds like a wonderful plan and I hope you have a great night!
Thanks Serenity. I agree. It is great advice, and should help pull me out of the blahs I seemed to have stepped in today.
Ok. Got American flags and party noisemakers (cowbells are hard to find).
LOL! I figured the cowbells would be a stretch but so glad that I could be of some help to lift your spirits. Have fun!!!!
gima, Great. Just great!
Ok. Got American flags and party noisemakers (cowbells are hard to find).
Mishka, you're a genius.
Contemplating what life will be like with the kids around less.
two positive points to keep in mind.
As your kids get older, their growing independence will require they have more time away from you as their social lives develop.
I've read it here many times in the threads, and in several excellent "divorce for kids" books. You can increase the QUALITY of the time you spend with your kids after the divorce.
Still, I understand your worry. I drive my kids to school each day, and tuck them in each night. With teens, those moments when they are the most tired is when they are the most likely to open up to you. I'll miss the day to day of it. However, some of these changes were coming anyway. D17 will start driving herself to school next year. D13 does NOT like to be tucked in, and is slowly pulling away from that one ritual as he needs his teenage boy space.
Rather than imagine what you are losing, focus on what you have and make the most of it, right?
Your a good man, GIMA!
OK. We started the night with 4 new american flags, and it only took D6 about an hour to snap the wooden handle for one of them. I laughed and did what any man would do...duct tape!! Lots of duct tape. D6 loved it.
The kids loved the noisemakers. I got a whole bag of them for like $3.00.
D6 was so into it, she even made noise during the commercials. We got her to take a break, but as soon as the lead in for the Olympics started and she saw mountains and snow, she cranked back up again.
Thanks again Mishka. Great idea.
Contemplating what life will be like with the kids around less.
two positive points to keep in mind.
As your kids get older, their growing independence will require they have more time away from you as their social lives develop.
I've read it here many times in the threads, and in several excellent "divorce for kids" books. You can increase the QUALITY of the time you spend with your kids after the divorce.
Still, I understand your worry. I drive my kids to school each day, and tuck them in each night. With teens, those moments when they are the most tired is when they are the most likely to open up to you. I'll miss the day to day of it. However, some of these changes were coming anyway. D17 will start driving herself to school next year. D13 does NOT like to be tucked in, and is slowly pulling away from that one ritual as he needs his teenage boy space.
Rather than imagine what you are losing, focus on what you have and make the most of it, right?
Your a good man, GIMA!
Really good point Awoken. Thanks for helping me focus on what is good, not what I perceive I am losing.
Sounds like your trip this weekend was a good one.
Go team USA! Go fun family time! Go letting the kids blow off steam!
Did they love the story about the polar bears? Marc and I would love to go see that if it weren't so darned cold up there in Manitoba.
Quick update. Not really much going on.
Been crazy busy at work with a new case that is pretty big. And busy is good.
W has not responded to my discussion with her 8 days ago about telling me what she wants out of the D before we spend tons more on mediation. We (mt L and I) have heard NOTHING. When I talked to W 8 days ago, she said she would talk to her L and it sounded like she was open to taking a shot at resolving short of mediation. I know, don't believe anything they say and only half of what they do.
I was talking to a friend today and told him I have gone from limbo on the cheap to limbo with expense (L's involved).
gima,
I was talking to a friend today and told him I have gone from limbo on the cheap to limbo with expense (L's involved).
Yeah, but I found it to be a well-spent expense for a one-way ticket out of Limbo! As I posted on FB, I've come to realize that despite my religious education/upbringing, Limbo and Hell are actually the same!
Last Limbo hurdle: Selling the house. Feeding a White Elephant all by yourself can damn-near ruin one, financially.
"Damn-near!? "Who am I kidding?!
Limbo and Hell are actually the same!
Truer words have never been spoken. Although, at least with Hell, you KNOW what you are dealing with!
Just wrapped up meetings for my office retreat. Back in my room. Feeling a bit lonely. I will get over it.
Highlight of the evening is when I called home and spoke to the kids. And maybe what I feel is loneliness is really just me missing them and realizing I will not be with them every day at the end of this process.
Feeling a bit lonely. I will get over it.
Just checking in on you tonight gima. Yes you will get over it.
I worry about seeing my kids everyday too. But as I mentioned in a previous post, you'll gain in quality what you may lost in day to day time.
(((gima)))
Feeling a bit lonely. I will get over it.
Just checking in on you tonight gima. Yes you will get over it.
I worry about seeing my kids everyday too. But as I mentioned in a previous post, you'll gain in quality what you may lost in day to day time.
(((gima)))
Thanks man. And you are right.
I just posted a reply to you over in my thread, but I thought I would copy it here as well. It seems relevant to both discussions:
Today, while my daughter dazzled me with her thoughts about everything, and her openness to tell me her deepest thoughts, I thought briefly about you(GIMA) and your worries about time with your kids post D. You know we both share the same worries.
It occurred to me that this one lunch with my daughter, and our bonding over it, is something we will both never forget. Regardless of what happens in the future, D17 and I will have many more moments like this to treasure. Somehow, I a little less concerned about losing my day to day contact with D17 and S13.
I just posted a reply to you over in my thread, but I thought I would copy it here as well. It seems relevant to both discussions:
Today, while my daughter dazzled me with her thoughts about everything, and her openness to tell me her deepest thoughts, I thought briefly about you(GIMA) and your worries about time with your kids post D. You know we both share the same worries.
It occurred to me that this one lunch with my daughter, and our bonding over it, is something we will both never forget. Regardless of what happens in the future, D17 and I will have many more moments like this to treasure. Somehow, I a little less concerned about losing my day to day contact with D17 and S13.
Thanks Awoken. I dreaded the drive back home b/c she was here and I was excited about the drive back home b/c the kids are here. This dichotomy seems to be the existence many of us here live.
I have just about forgotten what a "normal" existence is anymore. Not losing it. Just feeling reflective right now.
About to take S10 to baseball practice - and that will be the highlight of my day so far.
And here is the head scratcher for the day - anyone feel free to chime in: W sent me an email to explain that the kids slept in my bed last night (they usually do when I'm not here), that she made the bed up and put things back like she found them to the best of her knowledge. But if things were out of place, this was why. WHY WOULD I CARE? WHY?
W then sent me an email to say she did not know what time I owuld be home or where the retreat was. I reminded her I emailed here a few weeks ago to tell her where the retreat was and how long I'd be gone. "Oh, I didn't remember that."
My puzzer is puzzed. Not wasting time on it. Just odd. Or, "normal" these days.
God do I want to know what "normal" feels like again too.
Hugs to you gima - we can't read into a damn thing they say or do..we just can't. I see so much back and forth I just don't know - it's the WAS way!
Hang in there you are doing ok. Time is our friend.
I find myself missing having a R in my life. It is tragically ironic that I'm M'd and have never felt more alone.
I get the learning how to be alone but not lonely. But, I do miss having a loving R - being loved and loving that woman.
Oh, I didn't remember that."
Normal MLC.
Just if it interests you on my new thread is a post from HeartBlessing with a discussion about MLC and hormones. I find it kind of interesting and I am still not convinced of the final outcome of your sich even if you are.
However keep your expectations at zero just the way you have been doing.
OP,
I am leaving that door open for her but have NO hope she will walk back through it. No one knows the future, but it seems pretty clear to me. Of course, it is impossible for me to be be objective.
Maybe having a little communication is a good thing. At least it allows me to see just how little respect she has for me.
Brief recap from a couple of weeks ago. I spoke to W to suggest she have her L send my L a settlement proposal - b/c I literally have NO IDEA what she wants/expects. This would save us several thousands of dollars if we could resolve pre-mediation. She says she would talk to her L.
A week goes by and nothing. Then, on day 8, her L calls mine and asks for mediation dates!!! So, W doesn't have th guts to tell me this in hte same manner I went to her to suggest we try to resolve our issues.
So, tonight, I went to the doorway of her bedroom, where she lives these days and said I guess I should assume you have no interest in trying to resolve our D short of mediation. She responds with "Nothing has changed since we spoke last." Did I say she is the master of "Nothing has changed?" Anyway, I pointed out that her response was not an answer to my qiestion and asked her if she was comfortable not simply telling me herself that she would not discuss settlement pre-mediation. She said she did feel comfortable having her L tell mine.
I knew she was a quitter, but never thought, until now, that she was a coward as well.
I told her we would be dropping another $8,000-$10,000 in mediation. Her response was "I didn't think I would spend that much." That's the problem sweetie, you aren't THINKING. She literally has asked her L to tell her "what is customary in these situations." As if our M is a car wreck case or something!!!
So, my W, who has always projected a strong, independent image, cannot make a simple decision and would not think of making that decision. Instead, she has her L do that for her.
And, yes, I am venting some here.
All the while W is telling me how comfortable she was in the way she isn't communicating with me directly (sweetie, when we exchange the kids post-D, you gonna have your L drop them off with me or do you think you will have the stones to do that?!), she shows utter disrespect for me. Anger, contempt and disdain. And I NEEDED to see that.
Comments welcome.
WAW + MLC = Cuckoo HW
I know you don't want to hear this and it may sound harsh... Respect is earned not given. Maybe it's time to give it your all and take off the kid gloves. Play hardball and hold her feet to the fire. You say you're done and you're still letting her get to you.
What can you do to create a crisis with her?
FYI: GAL + 180 + PMA = GIMA
Yeah..she is cold as ICE and I'm sorry you have to deal with someone like this. She is really angry isn't she?
Her behavior is not shocking...aren't the walkaways supposed to do things opposite of what you'd think? I know mine is!
Perfect place for you to come to vent...hey, at least you aren't letting her see that she's upsetting you.
I know you needed to see her true colors. It just makes it easier to let them go huh?
Hugs gima - I know you've gone through so much but your attitude encourages me.
Luv
^ leave it up go Gno to give it to ya straight!
WAW + MLC = Cuckoo HW
I know you don't want to hear this and it may sound harsh... Respect is earned not given. Maybe it's time to give it your all and take off the kid gloves. Play hardball and hold her feet to the fire. You say you're done and you're still letting her get to you.
What can you do to create a crisis with her?
FYI: GAL + 180 + PMA = GIMA
I like it Gnosis. I just don't think she cares any more.
And the emotion she exhibited tonight may have been more anger than disrespect. But, I understand your point and completely agree.
Part of the anger in her I think comes from the fact I have been virtually NC with her.
Actually pretty calm right now. Amazing how seeing what I saw tonight snapped me right out of the blues.
Thanks luvless.
And yes, seeing her true colors has done wonders for my feeling down. Hard to feel bad about losing something you don't like anymore.
She IS angry. At what and why, who knows. Maybe the MLC talking there. And some of the early menopause.
I think you should drill it into her head that she better come to the negotiating table before you squander a small fortune that would be used to educate the kids.
They say "no confrontation" and don't do anything to anger them... I say to hell with that. Get in her face if you have to. You say she's a coward? Cool then confront her. What's she going to do? Run to her L again?
GIMA safeguard your finances. I can't remember, but I think you already did it, if you didn't then cut off all funding.
Not worried about angering her. Anger is good. Shows she still cares about something.
I try to bring truth to her each chance I get. And she does NOT like it. So, I will keep doing it.
We have a joint checking account, and I watch it. I can't change the funding around b/c there is a standing order in D cases in my neck of the woods that says we have to maintain the status quo pending resolution by the Court. SHE is under the same order. Step out of line, and she'll be talking to the judge.
She IS angry. At what and why, who knows. Maybe the MLC talking there. And some of the early menopause.
No she is not angry she is depressed! The depression comes out in the form of anger. No other way to release the depression.
And GIMA don't you understand that YOU are the cause of this depression, so she must get rid of you. (Also if you believe what I just wrote you can buy a bridge from me that goes to Brooklyn)
OP,
I get your point and completely agree with you. It is her perception I am the cause of her unhappiness but the reality is I am not. I can't make her happy. Only she can do that.
Actually GIMA, your wife is being quite wise in letting her lawyer handle things for her. You would be wise to let YOUR lawyer handle things for you. Is there anything stopping YOU from making an offer first?
You would be wise to stop trying to force her and pressure her (pressure does NOT work) into making decisions without her lawyer. You would be wise to drop the issue and tell your lawyer to take control here and do what he has to do. If you do that, when things don't go her way, you can use the same excuse she is using.. which is "I will have to talk to my lawyer."
Thanks Gucci. And from here on out, what you suggest is the plan. Seeing her attitude last night was a very good thing for me to see.
And thanks for the post. I've been here a while, and I think this was your 1st post to me.
You would be wise to stop trying to force her and pressure her (pressure does NOT work)
Now this is good. Listen closely.
Gucci,
Just realized I did not answer your question. Nothing stopping me from making an offer. But, I may lose some strategic advantage by showing my cards and her L won't negotiate outside mediation b/c "this is how he does it.". I'm a L and I can tell you that's BS. Either he is having control issues with his client or he is lazy. And I don't think he's lazy.
Nothing stopping me from making an offer. But, I may lose some strategic advantage by showing my cards and her L won't negotiate outside mediation b/c "this is how he does it."
Who says you have to show ANY cards. Bluffing has been a way of winning a poker hand since the beginning of time.. Bluff her.. Her lawyer is obviously doing some bluffing and it seems to be working on you. Get the upper hand here.
Go for everything. All in. They need to see you getting strong, resolved and tough here. Your attitude should be the one she is taking. (look how her attitude is effecting YOU) Take charge.
Who says you have to show ANY cards. Bluffing has been a way of winning a poker hand since the beginning of time.. Bluff her.. Her lawyer is obviously doing some bluffing and it seems to be working on you. Get the upper hand here.
Go for everything. All in. They need to see you getting strong, resolved and tough here. Your attitude should be the one she is taking. (look how her attitude is effecting YOU) Take charge.
Go all in for yourself, she gets to unilaterally make a decision that will effect you, her, the kids and your family for the rest of your life. F that. Why should she get anything? Ask for it all - custody, all the money, the house etc. Show your kids you will fight for your values, if your W wants to quit then let her but there are consequences - serious ones.
To quote Rambo, "She drew first blood." Show your teeth. You lose a lot here if you don't protect yourself. OK she's depressed, MLC, menopause (have empathy) but she is suing you for divorce. (The Brutal Reality)
My favorite professor used to give us a quote for the day, here is one: "The hangmans noose tends mightily to focus the mind." Let her have all the consequences of killing your marriage and family. It is her decision let her own it.
No anger or spite just resolve. This is what you want then I will give it to you in spades. Let your L be the hammer. Own the 4th quarter.
Actually GIMA, your wife is being quite wise in letting her lawyer handle things for her. You would be wise to let YOUR lawyer handle things for you. Is there anything stopping YOU from making an offer first?
You would be wise to stop trying to force her and pressure her (pressure does NOT work) into making decisions without her lawyer. You would be wise to drop the issue and tell your lawyer to take control here and do what he has to do. If you do that, when things don't go her way, you can use the same excuse she is using.. which is "I will have to talk to my lawyer."
GIMA - This sounds a lot like my sitch in the beginning of the "negotiations". While I basically sucked at DBing, I am happy with the way I handled this part. I'll give you a very brief description and then you can filter out what applies:
With my L, I put together a big proposal in the beginning of negotiations on how I saw it playing out. Quite honestly, it was an incredibly generous offer made mostly out of fear. It was offering to split everything including time with the kids and all finances. When I saw how my XW and her L reacted to it (like they were insulted), I told my L to take that offer off the table and now we were going to fight it out. I wanted full custody of the kids and everything else was secondary and would be a result of that. I then served my XW immediately. I never, ever again spoke to or engaged in a conversation regarding our D. It was treated as strictly business at that point whether she liked it or not.
Up to that point I was so concerned with what she would agree to. My L at one point said to me, "what do you want?" She told me that I never expressed it. But I wanted the kids, and quite frankly, I deserved them. So that is how we proceeded. That 50/50 split was taken off the table and never addressed again. Rather than playing defense, we went on the offensive. I no longer cared what she wanted. I thought about what was best for the boys. I thought about what was best for me. Everything changed.
I wasn't interested in reconciliation at that point. Too many bridges had been burned. But I can tell you that she had nothing but respect at that point and completely caved. Her L basically cut a deal and we let them save just a little face. In the end she got less than 10% of that original 50/50 offer.
I'm not telling you that you should do anything that I did. My point is that the D part really needs to be separate from any DBing that you are doing. Unfortunately, it is a business interaction. You need to cut a deal that you will be happy with for the rest of your life. That needs to be your mindset. Now, with that in mind, who do you want taking control, her or you?? Talk to your L. Tell him or her what
you want. And from here on forward, let your L represent you. I don't want to come across as pro D here. Please don't misinterpret. I just want to make sure you are protecting yourself. It's soo important. I know many people that didn't. I was lucky.
Mules
Strength and Honor. Always.
GIMA: wow, your thread just got very active, with great advice. Mulesqb especially.
hang in there, my friend.
Mules,
Thank you. I am getting some great advice today fromyou guys.
Mules, I really like the approach you took. And, my mindset is in the wrong place. It IS about what I want. And what is best for the kids.
I will not have any firhter conversations with her about the D. That's what our L's are for. Just business.
Thanks guys.
I really can relate to your dilemma about showing too much too early when it is not on your terms (from a legal standpoint I mean). I know you are an attny so obviously you know more than us "non attny's" but on an emotional level I can relate.
My attny (who started practicing law the year I was born so he has some experience, lol!) told me that in all his years of practicing law the ONLY attny he has EVER had deny him a "sit down" with clients is my H's attny. Of course, my H's attny was under no obligation to sit down with us and see what could be worked out before all the court stuff happened but it's not uncommon. My H's attny simply said "he doesn't work that way".
It became a very sick game because my H's attny knew full well what my attny and I "had" on my H and they tried to wear us down with tons of adjournments, not showing up, not filing the proper docs as per THE LAW and so on.
I understand due to your profession you may be more equipped to handle this but for non legal people it is very upsetting. I would venture to guess your W's attny knows you are an attny therefore is doing things a bit different as you already have a leg up when dealing with the law.
Hardball is not fun but necessary.
CG,
I know the negotiation game b/c I have to play it as part of my job. So, I know what is likely coming.
There is another possibility: that my W's L is having control issues. These could relate to getting her to accept what the likely outcome, financially speaking, is. I have had cases in the past where my client, or more commonly, the opposing party, refused to listen to their L.
Mediation can serve a purpose then by allowing an independent, 3rd party come in and tell the unreasonable client that their L is telling them the truth. Expensive and wasteful, but sometimes necessary.
Right.. I understood fundamentally what you were saying.
I was just trying to say (in a terrible fashion, lol!) that sometimes people think an ordeal is easier due to a profession.
My sister was a nurse for years. When my dad was sick in the ICU she was very comfortable being in the ICU wing. The machines, the beeping of the machines that never ended, being surrounded by illness and death, the codes, the urgency did not frighten her. It FRIGHTENED ME! It was a totally foreign environment to me.
And while she was sad to be there because it was our dad, the surroundings didn't phase her much.
So while you understand how the law works and what will take place and that is not scary to you as you are familiar with the process it does make you sad. You may not be scared to see a court document like I was but you are sad for the reasons it exists.
I was just saying I can understand how tough that would be!
CG,
You are spot on!
I was just trying to say (in a terrible fashion, lol!) that sometimes people think an ordeal is easier due to a profession.
It isn't. I love(ed?) my W and despite my profession, this is gut wrenching to know the hurt that is coming for my children. And, for what?!
So while you understand how the law works and what will take place and that is not scary to you as you are familiar with the process it does make you sad. You may not be scared to see a court document like I was but you are sad for the reasons it exists.
Yep. I am sad about this. I'm moving on and know I'll be ok, but that's no free pass on the sadness. Time will help.
Please don't think I was disagreeing with you at all in my prior post. I wasn't. And I know what you meant.
Thanks for your thoughts. You have a very good head on your shoulders.
Well, I do have a head, how "good" it can be remains to be seen
Sometimes I post something that makes perfect sense in my head and when I go back and read even I say WHAT?
This entire process (both the emotional and legal side) has so many layers sometimes it can be overwhelming (or at least it was to me).
We all will be okay one day (right?
)
We all will be okay one day (right?
)
YES! We will.
And I think the fact we ask that question shows we understand the potential downside in the situation, which is more than most of the WAS's can say. We have an appreciation for the risk inherent in their decision. What we choose to allow to happen as a result of their decision is OUR choice.
Since most WAS's don't have an appreciation for the consequences of their decision, they are much less prepared than us to deal with them.
But, yes, we WILL be ok. Because WE get to decide that.
While it is something we all gained via an awful situation (being left in a marriage) I do believe the LBS has gains.
For the first time in my life I have really learned to see and examine things from the other side. And I think it was Jeff who said it is important to do so not just through "your lens" but really see it from the other side.
My IRL divorce support group really cements that for me. While their marriages may end all the members really can walk away knowing they learned how to see things from all angles. I rarely think the WAS ever gets to that place.
And, my mindset is in the wrong place. It IS about what I want. And what is best for the kids.
Yep, that's all I was trying to say. Glad someone managed to get the message across better than me.
And, my mindset is in the wrong place. It IS about what I want. And what is best for the kids.
Yep, that's all I was trying to say. Glad someone managed to get the message across better than me.
No, I gathered that from you too yesterday.
I'm not telling you that you should do anything that I did. My point is that the D part really needs to be separate from any DBing that you are doing. Unfortunately, it is a business interaction. You need to cut a deal that you will be happy with for the rest of your life. That needs to be your mindset. Now, with that in mind, who do you want taking control, her or you?? Talk to your L. Tell him or her what you want. And from here on forward, let your L represent you. I don't want to come across as pro D here. Please don't misinterpret. I just want to make sure you are protecting yourself. It's soo important. I know many people that didn't. I was lucky.
As it was so eloquently put to me: You worry about the marriage. Let the lawyers worry about the divorce
gima,
But, I do miss having a loving R - being loved and loving that woman.
I know.
After months of anguish, though, that kind of feeling, statement in my heart would end with a feeling of "as opposed to
this (present) woman." (sigh).
Thanks G. Much better today. Focusing on me, the kids and what I want.
Pretty well. Getting ready to set up mediation dates. Know it's inevitable, but there is a sense of dread in going through that. But, I can't make her stay.
IC today, in about an hour.
Then, work out after that.
Been busy at work, which is GOOD.
So, feeling strong, but sad, if that makes sense.
Makes total sense.
IC - excellent!
Workout - MORE excellent!
Enjoy it. Been back to DC yet?
GIMA, that IC coukld be really helpful for you today.
Mishka,
Have been to DC every week since started. And based on what I've learned here, I am WAY ahead of the group (including the facilitators). Not being arrogant (I'm not) - just stating my opinion. But, maybe I can help the other members.
Have been to DC every week since started. And based on what I've learned here, I am WAY ahead of the group (including the facilitators). Not being arrogant (I'm not) - just stating my opinion. But, maybe I can help the other members.
I have to admit I think the counseling that we get on this board for free is far better than the C we go to and PAY for.
gima,
But, I can't make her stay.
No. Especially since like all WAWs (even the still-at-home-ones)she is already gone, she's already "left".
So, feeling strong, but sad, if that makes sense.
All the sense in the world. And perfectly natural.
Stay strong.
In my prayers...
gima,
But, I can't make her stay.
No. Especially since like all WAWs (even the still-at-home-ones)she is already gone, she's already "left".
So, feeling strong, but sad, if that makes sense.
All the sense in the world. And perfectly natural.
Stay strong.
In my prayers...
Thanks buddy. And you are in my prayers as well.
Hi GIMA! Be strong, buddy, because you will be ok. I know we all will be.
Just a comment on the legal stuff, in my sitch my H thought he could transfer the house to my name and I wouldn't want anything else because he'd done me such a big favor. Right.
Long after he'd transfered the house into my name I let him know what my L said. Without any legal S paper filed it was still a marital asset. He'd done nothing to change our legal sitch. And, moreover, my L would not let me be fine with that arrangement. He would demand a full appraisal of the property, a comparison with the value of his retirement I would be eligible for at the time of retirement (assuming growth in the value), and oh yes, half the value of the farm his Dad transferred to him because it was transfered during our m and was therefore, also a marital asset. It would also include half the value of everything else we owned such as his truck, the tools in the garage, and his motorcycle, even.
He turned a little white when I told him all this.
Sometimes being nice just doesn't work.
Let the L represent you. It is sad for you and the kids. But it is your job to look out for them by getting what you are entitled to.
Hi GIMA! Be strong, buddy, because you will be ok. I know we all will be.
Just a comment on the legal stuff, in my sitch my H thought he could transfer the house to my name and I wouldn't want anything else because he'd done me such a big favor. Right.
Long after he'd transfered the house into my name I let him know what my L said. Without any legal S paper filed it was still a marital asset. He'd done nothing to change our legal sitch. And, moreover, my L would not let me be fine with that arrangement. He would demand a full appraisal of the property, a comparison with the value of his retirement I would be eligible for at the time of retirement (assuming growth in the value), and oh yes, half the value of the farm his Dad transferred to him because it was transfered during our m and was therefore, also a marital asset. It would also include half the value of everything else we owned such as his truck, the tools in the garage, and his motorcycle, even.
He turned a little white when I told him all this.
Sometimes being nice just doesn't work.
Let the L represent you. It is sad for you and the kids. But it is your job to look out for them by getting what you are entitled to.
I agree 110% with you Wifey.
Came in to the office to get some work done. I don't like working on weekends, especially since that takes me away from the kids, but I have no choice right now - too much work to do, which is a good thing.
Went to breakfast on the way in to the office. And, I found my thoughts straying into an area I don't like, and have pulled back from. I found myself asking myself "Was I That bad a H that my W could not be happy? Was I REALLY that bad?"
I know it's not my job to make her happy AND I know I wasn't that bad. In fact, despite my faults, I was a VERY GOOD H. Not PERFECT, but a VERY GOOD one.
I told my W how I felt about her, how beautiful she was, how lucky I was to be M'd to her. In retrospect, not sure these meant anything to her, and, in fact, may have shown her weakness in me that she came to despise. But, it was how I felt. And I thought this was the one person on the Earth to whom I could tell all my thoughts, fears, dreams, successes and failures. If she can find another man willing to be what I was for her, then my hat's off to her. She won't.
Just rambling a bit. I know this D has a LOT less to do with me than I first thought. I have addressed the things I needed to in me FOR me. And if that's not enough, SHE doesn't deserve me.
"Was I That bad a H that my W could not be happy? Was I REALLY that bad?"
Again, you and I are in similar places. Understanding intellectually the role we played in our M's doesn't necessarily help with the feelings. But time will.
This week has been especially hard, for no specific reason. I suspect it's part of the grieving/healing process. We both know that the future will be brighter, and we need to be patient and own these feelings.
I told my W how I felt about her, how beautiful she was, how lucky I was to be M'd to her. Sounds like a GREAT husband to me.
In retrospect, not sure these meant anything to her, and, in fact, may have shown her weakness in me that she came to despise. But, it was how I felt. This sounds like HER problem to me. I can't imagine this as weakness.
And I thought this was the one person on the Earth to whom I could tell all my thoughts, fears, dreams, successes and failures. This describes what I consider to be essential for a good marriage...go figure.
.....I know this D has a LOT less to do with me than I first thought. I have addressed the things I needed to in me FOR me. And if that's not enough, SHE doesn't deserve me. You got it!
Hang in there, GIMA.
Thanks Awoken and Sister.
I'm hanging in there. No other choice.
Logged about half a day at the office. Going home to for a run then play with the kids. I am taking the kids to my brother and SIL's house tonight to see them and their 4 kids. My D6 is so excited to see her cousins.
I found myself asking myself "Was I That bad a H that my W could not be happy? Was I REALLY that bad?"
I've tortured myself with that one too, and came to the same conclusion - yes, I was a good husband, W has even said as much -
When it comes down to it, our wives will do what they will do, and there is some stuff going on with them that don't have anything to do with us. You're a good man and you've put a hell of a lot of work into yourself and your M.
Hang in there man.
Thanks Bill. I know I will be better off in the end. Just gonna be tough getting there. I can handle it.
gima,
"Was I That bad a H that my W could not be happy? Was I REALLY that bad?"
Self-torture. And I've done my share.
A good husband, partner, companion, etc., = Good Person.
A Good Person's natural response to the bottom-line
She doesn't want
me will be with self-evaluation, with reflection: "well, then, there must be something lacking in
me."
In most cases there
was something lacking. A need not/no longer met by Good Person. This, too is natural. This, too happens.
Especially in a marriage.
If the positions were reversed, good husband, partner, companion, etc., Good Person
Would never have responded to or addressed an unmet need the way it was visited upon Good Person: filing for D, having an A, walking out, etc.
Why? Good Person, that's why.
I have absolutely no doubt that you were a very good husband.
Thanks Gardener.
Had a fun night with the kids. I took them to my brothers and SIL's so they could play with their cousins. They had a ball, but it about an hour from home, so we got back a little late.
Quick update. I've been sparse of late, but always lurking.
Good day. LOTS of snow. Met with some friends tonight. Talked about what God thinks about D (sorry to our non-religious friends). Really helped me to understand that I should (and do) have a clean conscience about doing all I could to save the M. W will have to deal with her decision between herselh and Him. Not my burden. Thank God, it's not my burden.
Made it home in time to kiss S and D good night. THAT made my day. W is back in her room with her door half closed. So be it.
Work is keeping me busy, and I am VERY thankful for that.
I have been taking the kids to school in the morning rather than putting them on the bus. It's a little bit of "our time" when we joke and laugh with each other. I really look forward to each morning of that.
Good for you, gima.
Positives all around.
I'm glad.
That is so great that you are spending the time in the car together in the mornings together. I tried that with my son but he is just like me - not much of a morning talker - so he sits sullenly in the passenger seat dreading the moment he has to get out of the car at school.
He is a teenager though....
Having a tough night. Anger and sadness. Sounds like a blues tune, doesn't it?
My L sent me mediation dates my STBXW's L provided as available dates. Just seeing those dates in black and white, having L's involved, and the finality of it all got to me. Sadness at first. Then just anger. Anger she can just do this without hesitation, this damage she is going to do to the kids. Dammit. Just, dammit. So mind numbingly selfish. I can't even look at her.
I am so trying not to hate her right now, but it is VERY, VERY hard. I don't want that burden but don't seem to be able to shake it or let it go.
I am in control of my emotions, or at least the way I react to them. But, God, I just want to scream at her and ask her WHAT THE HE!! ARE YOU THINKING? WHAT ABOUT YOUR LIFE IS SO AWFUL THAT YOU HAVE TO PUT ME AND THE KIDS THROUGH THIS HE!!? I understand the WAS thinking, but I will NEVER "get it."
Sorry folks. Just had to get that out.
OK it's out...
Talking about out... get your ass out the door too.
If there's a stand-up comedy club near you... go and watch the show... if there is not, go to the DVD store and hire a copy of a stand-up comedy act. If that fails then find something that's going to make you laugh.
Laughter is the best medicine. Take it in large doses.
You can handle this GIMA.
I can sooo understand your feelings GIMA. The children are the ones who pay the price...
OK it's out...
Talking about out... get your ass out the door too.
If there's a stand-up comedy club near you... go and watch the show... if there is not, go to the DVD store and hire a copy of a stand-up comedy act. If that fails then find something that's going to make you laugh.
Laughter is the best medicine. Take it in large doses.
You can handle this GIMA.
Thanks Gno. I was just looking at catching a movie once I put the kids down. Can't bear being here with her.
I can sooo understand your feelings GIMA. The children are the ones who pay the price...
Thanks, and that IS the truth. And the source of 99% of my anger.
Interesting thing today. I'm a L (as a lot of you know), and I was taking an opposing party's deposition in a case, a female with a long history of depression (one of the issues involved in the case). As I am deposing this lady, hearing how hopeless, sad for no reason she feels, I feel like I'm listening to my W ("I'm just not happy..."). Wow, this must be what my W feels like.
As I am deposing this lady, hearing how hopeless, sad for no reason she feels, I feel like I'm listening to my W ("I'm just not happy..."). Wow, this must be what my W feels like.
No longer your problem.
I was just looking at catching a movie once I put the kids down.
There are very few comedies out there that don't involve romance... thanks to all the crap that Hollywood spews. I'd avoid a movie... they're anti-social anyway. Call up a buddy and go have some fun instead.
As I am deposing this lady, hearing how hopeless, sad for no reason she feels, I feel like I'm listening to my W ("I'm just not happy..."). Wow, this must be what my W feels like.
No longer your problem.
I was just looking at catching a movie once I put the kids down.
There are very few comedies out there that don't involve romance... thanks to all the crap that Hollywood spews. I'd avoid a movie... they're anti-social anyway. Call up a buddy and go have some fun instead.
I will see who I can scrounge up. Unfortunatley, most of my friends are M'd, and spur of the moment on a weeknight is tough for them (not ME anymore!!!).
I will see who I can scrounge up. Unfortunatley, most of my friends are M'd, and spur of the moment on a weeknight is tough for them (not ME anymore!!!).
Note to GIMA: Make new friends... Carpe Diem (sieze the day) and there is no time like the present... now get on out there before I climb on the phone and give you a freakin' earful!
I am so trying not to hate her right now
What would it take to not hate her?
I guess my question is, what if she had cancer? Would you have more compassion for her?
If yes then remember she is sick just change the disease in your mind.
I am so trying not to hate her right now
What would it take to not hate her?
I guess my question is, what if she had cancer? Would you have more compassion for her?
If yes then remember she is sick just change the disease in your mind.
Good point OP. I understand. But, the difficulty is how otherwise "normal" she seems to be - makes it tought to fight back the anger that comes from thinking she DOES have a choice here.
But, the difficulty is how otherwise "normal" she seems to be
You think what is going on in your house is "normal"?
I don't thinks so. You really should do some more research on depression.
Hey you can do it as part of your "job" with that deposition.
Your W has what is called masked depression. She seems "normal" but she is not. Inside she is in major trouble.
You are SO right OP. Funny you used the word "masked" b/c her C told her she "masked" her unhappiness with the M.
It doesn't change anything but I think it would be better for YOU.
gima,
Sadness at first. Then just anger. Anger she can just do this without hesitation, this damage she is going to do to the kids. Dammit. Just, dammit. So mind numbingly selfish.
I know. Not to add fuel to your emotional fire, gima, but my same feelings were just increased exponentially when I looked at it in light of all the work, the DBing, the eggshells, the reading, the PMA, etc. that was taking place on my side while her side went...well while her side just
went.
I am so trying not to hate her right now, but it is VERY, VERY hard. I don't want that burden but don't seem to be able to shake it or let it go.
You know what, buddy? There's a reason you can't shake or let it go: it's understandable. It's
valid! Sometimes you just gotta put aside all the morality, decency, religion, knowledge that hate can be self-consuming, etc., and just hate, anyway. In your mind. Until it's experienced, vented and spent. It's an emotion. Like all the others, it, too needs its expression, release valve. Let it have its say. I hated my X for a while. How can one not? Doing hateful, selfish, hurtful things almost cavalierly while I was busting my hump on this site and elsewhere consumed daily with the challenge and effort of saving my marriage - alone.
It didn't last long. But I hated her. I felt it and got it through me and out of me. And. It. Felt. Good.
I know it's valid. I'm trying to let it run its course and not allow it to control me. Doing well with that now. Was good to get it out.
Tucked kids in. That was great. They seem to be drawing closer to me and I love that. I got home early tonight from work and met W coming down the road on way to take S to baseball practice. I stopped her and took S. On way to practice, he told me W is always late taking him (including today). I asked him which practices he had been on time for (expecting to hear some W had taken him to) and he said, almost as if to say "you idiot", the ones you took me to Dad. Huh.
You got a dog, then you always have a friend to go out with. My dog was my secret weapon. She was up for a talk or walk any time of day. There is a reason they are called "mans best friend."
I agree with Gardener, nothing wrong with how you are feeling. Feel it, understand it and deal with it in healthy ways. You can handle it. Just keep getting back up.
Cheers
Thanks man. You are the best.
I wouldn't put my dogs out in this weather - high 20's and very windy. It's freezing a$$ cold. But, I get your point.
Thanks buddy.
No advice, just a hug.
(((GIMA)))
MO3,
Sometimes a hug is the best thing. Thanks. Haven't had a real one of those from an adult of the opp sex in a while.
Hope all is well with you. I am planning to get back involved in the sitch's on the boards soon.
I am planning to get back involved in the sitch's on the boards soon.
I know you are already doing this but for everyone else reading along. Take care of self first! - Another DB RULE
Damn, the blues are back. I am just going to stay busy and ride it out. I know I'll come out of this...soon.
Get to take S10 to baseball practice today. Funny how little things like that have become so important.
Those little things will keep you going GIMA. Cling to them!
I am mishka. I am.
Weird place right now. Part of me doesn't want D. Part of me is ready to start my new life and, slowly, find the REAL Ms. GIMA.
As long as the REAL GIMA doesn't lose sight of what he's gained in the process of finding Ms GIMA.
I haven't. I miss being close with a woman - not sex - but that sppecial R.
I. Part of me is ready to start my new life and, slowly, find the REAL Ms. GIMA.
She's probably going to find you!
You know Gardener, I didn't even think of that thanks for the perspective. And, that would be pretty cool!
Please start a new thread as your thread is large. Large threads interfere with the mechanics of the board and slow it down.
Thanks.
I miss being close with a woman - not sex - but that special R.
Amen. I know exactly what you mean.