I didn't realize my last post locked up.
Its been a good weekend. I took my girls to the fireworks Friday and Saturday night. Last night W and her cousin and cousin's kid also went. As usual W didn't want much to do with me. No surprise right.
This morning I took my kids to church and then came home and fed them lunch.
I have a busy week ahead of me and I return the kids to their mom tonite.
Earlier in the week she told me that I am not as intelligent as her and we don't have any of the same hobbies or interests and she just can't live with that and that it is also my fault that the kids are having to live like this going back and forth every other week. I didn't respond. It bugged me though.
Kevin
Kevin
Earlier in the week she told me that I am not as intelligent as her and we don't have any of the same hobbies or interests and she just can't live with that and that it is also my fault that the kids are having to live like this going back and forth every other week. I didn't respond. It bugged me though.
First, she does not need to say you are not as intelligent as her. I would not let that slide again if she brings it up. I would just say that such a disrespectful comment is inappropriate and does not lend itself to good communication.
Second, how is it YOUR fault that SHE chose to leave? Am I missing something? She chose to leave.
What gets into these peoples heads? They want out of the
M, yet we are somehow either at fault or at least not good people. All of a sudden things my W uses to love about me are now bad. I don't get it.
Guys, this is not a positive path to go down with Kevin, really.
Kevin, you work so hard to focus on you. Let this go and keep doing what you know you need to do.
This rebuilding book is supposed to be a really good book to help you start over. A friend of mine is reading it and recommended it.
Rebuilding: When Your Relationship Ends
Kevin
Kevin,
AAK is correct. I stand by what I said, but you have to put the focus on you, not her. You have NO control over her. Right now, she has control over you if she knows she can upset you.
Focus on you. Cuz none of the rest of it makes sense.
I dropped off my kids at their mom's house. I told her I would drop them off between 6 and 7 and I showed up a little after 6 and she got mad at me for not calling first. Whatever.
Then I went and ate sushi with a friend of mine. I figured that was a good way to end the night after having to leave my kids.
Kevin
At some point you may need to memorize a line or two Kevin, as you have said that thinking on your feet around your w is difficult. You can reply to her negative commentary by saying "Excuse me, but I'm not inviting comment" or "W, please keep your negative commentary to yourself, I'm not interested in it."
As to the "it's your fault" comments, say "I owned my role in the problems in our m and that's all I can do. [i]I am not spending my time assigning blame but I'm certainly not taking the blame, either."[/i]
The REPLY function here, is not to engage in the conversation but to END THEM...so keep that in mind when you say these things. You are not to await a response from her but to assume that there is NONE coming...and move on.
And once you know these lines, get back to working on you and not caring what she says or thinks or does. Ever.
j-
Now you're showing it. Detaching. Reading books. Ignore those comments. She's just trying to get a angry response back.
The oddest one I got was, "We would have never been friends back in high school." Uhh...whatever...that was quite a while ago.
Just do your own thing.
Believe it or not, I feel like I am finally starting to detach more. Its kind of a weird feeling. Strangely I don't want to be detached but I feel like it is starting to happen naturally the more time we are spending apart. I am actually starting to feel better mentally and emotionally.
Very strange. I am actually not quite as consumed as I previously was.
Kevin
Good!!!
Just make sure you go to your meetings, and keep up the good progress!
Puppy
Detaching is a strange feeling but if I may offer a gentle suggestion, dont fight it internally. Dont let it become an internal battle. As much as we would all like the act of detaching to be as simple as getting dressed in the morning, in most cases it has to be a very organic process. Its interesting, while the act of detaching is sort of a universal process it is also a very personal one.
In your case I think the BEST thing you can do is to remain as dark as possible with your W. I can speak from experience that for a long time I could give a rats ass about my H when we went weeks/months w/o talking at all but when I had any contact with him I backslid terrible. Which of course means I wasnt detached but simply distanced. And I guess sometimes we have to get in the "distance groove" and then the organic process of detachement starts.
As humans I think are natural insticts are to fight (not physically, I just mean fight for what is "right" to us). So when we stop the fight and just become an individual it is an odd feeling. I can openly admit one of the hardest aspects of all of this for me was NOT considering my H and his feelings, not being there for him and not protecting him despite the fact he was acting like a heathen.
Dont fight the unknown - embrace it. Its sort of like when you break your leg and need crutches for a while. The first few days w/crutches are very clumsy and awkward but after a few weeks you are zipping around on crutches like you have used them all your life. You know you *need* the crutches so you learn to adapt. You need to detach and you know that so if it feels clumsy and strange at first that is okay - soon enough you will be "zipping around" like you have been detached all your life.
I still think you would highly benefit from using the emotional thought stopping techinques (I posted the link to you several thread ago). I also think you would benefit from doing "something" quickly once your W enters your mind (remember I suggested push ups each time?).
Detachement is really the first step but it also means there is much work to do. Build on this momentum.
Great post CG...
Can't remember where it was, but the thoughts you are expressing are ones that newbies & oldbies trying to detach need to remember... To me, the simplest way of looking at this is to remember that as long as you think you're detached, you aren't detached; because you can only be detached when you Know you are detached...
...Its interesting, while the act of detaching is sort of a universal process it is also a very personal one.
...I could give a rats ass about my H when we went weeks/months w/o talking at all but when I had any contact with him I backslid terrible. Which of course means I wasnt detached but simply distanced.
As humans I think are natural insticts are to fight (not physically, I just mean fight for what is "right" to us). So when we stop the fight and just become an individual it is an odd feeling. I can openly admit one of the hardest aspects of all of this for me was NOT considering my H and his feelings, not being there for him and not protecting him despite the fact he was acting like a heathen.
...Detachement is really the first step but it also means there is much work to do. Build on this momentum.
CG, can you point me to your "thought stopping techinques" link or a good resource?
Thanks,
AlexEN
Here is one link on "emotional thought stopping" that is quite good and offers a four part lesson on the ins and outs of it all.
http://www.livestrong.com/article/14703-thought-stopping-in-recovery/If you do a Google search using the keywords "emotional thought stopping techniques" you will come up with many other links that are equally as good although for the most part the concept is the same.
HTH!
I found techniques like this helpful for dealing with a sudden death as well. And frankly, doing whatever works. And trying new stuff if your tools are not working seems obvious, but isn't always getting done.
Anyhow, as CG said, don't fight this. And if distance helps you start detaching, then keep doing it! Whatever works for now - is what works for now.
j-
Just letting you all know that I am still around. I just haven't had much to say. I have been busy at work and I did have dinner with a priest last night and that went very well. It was the first time I have ever talked to a priest as opposed to a minister at a church.
I get my kids tomorrow night so I am looking forward to that. Tonite I am having dinner with friends.
I think I am doing better. While I still want my marriage repaired, I am moving to the point mentally where I don't need my wife or have to have her, but I want to have her back. But I am doing ok without her. I still think about her. But it doesn't stop me from being able to do things I need to do now.
So I would say that I am getting healthier in that sense. I still pray each day for our marriage and I am reminded that while I may not see anything myself happening, it doesn't mean that God is not working on the situation. Its up to W whether or not she chooses to accept whatever he is putting in her path. I have no control over that situation.
Life is going ok. Its getting better somehow. My life seems to be getting more peaceful now compared to what it has been like through this process.
But I do believe I am getting to that point where I don't NEED her, but I want her and I want my family back intact. I am accepting the fact that this could be a very long time so I can't stop living life, but I will continue to work on me and pray none the less.
Kevin
I don't need my wife or have to have her, but I want to have her back.
Glad to hear it. That is where you want to be.
Just keep on becoming the best Kevin you can be and God will take care of the rest.
PMA
What you're feeling right now is not "peace". It's resignation.
You can totally hear it in your posting. What have you been doing to lift yourself? I don't see much "rising" on your part. Just a beaten attitude.
You list the things you've done as if they were chores. Have you "lived" yet?
In a way I do feel defeated and like I have resigned myself to the fact that this is just how things are right now and may be for a very very long time.
What have I done to lift myself? Just doing things with friends.
Kevin
Don't worry about it. We all go through this.
Friends are great and all, but they are like your M, they can become a crutch. That's why it's important to rely on your own strength and heal. You're a spiritual guy, so God can be a big part of it.
It's when you are happy with no one but yourself is when you know you are detached.
K4,
Glad you are making some progress. Maybe doesn't feel like it, but it is a form of progress when you finally get through a day without aching in pain from her absence.
Also, can you pray for God's guidance and strength instead of exclusively believing that the only way you can be happy with with HER? It is a lie. If it were true that she was the ONLY KEY to your happiness how realistic or fair is that? You think all the widows/widowers in the world, even the orphans, are ALWAYS unhappy the rest of their lives? They are not. They move forward and learn to laugh and even love, again.
You can too. You have to. Seriously, do you want to make a choice to be sad?
No you don't.
j-
I do pray for guidance and strength as well. No, I don't want to be sad. I think I am just in acceptance mode. So I am just hanging out with friends and reading and praying and doing the other things I need to be doing. I am taking dance lessons now.
I still need to get a bike and I have got to start lifting weights.
I get to see my kids tonight. YAY!!!
Kevin
I figured out what it is. Our S's are just playing hard to get. See, its a game. We just have to do reverse pschology and play hard to get back at them. Next thing ya know, its fixed. Silly me for not figuring this out sooner.
I'm a genius in my own mind. Oh well, back to work.
Kevin
Yes, I am kidding. But in a way, it is kind of like DBing if you think about it as far as playing hard to get. Being mysterious and working on thy self and not being available.
But I know she isn't playing hard to get.
See, deep down inside she really loves me. She just doesn't know it. It's up to me to show her that she really loves me. And to do that, I must play hard to get.
Ok, enough of the fun and games. I have work to do.
Kevin
Actually, many many months ago I was talking to her and said "ok, you got me on that one. Hahaha. Very funny. That was a good joke". I looked at her and there was no smile. Dang it.
Kevin
as long as you are "playing hard to get" and mean GAL, and you are doing it for you and not as a tactic, who knows?
But those "conditions" need to be met really. Or you are simply still pursuing and still NOT GAL...more of the same old. Seems to me you are taking 2 steps forward and one back...we'll see
j-
As if I needed to hear more. D11 asks me tonite if me and W are D'd or separated. I said we are separated. D11 then tells me that she heard W telling someone on the phone that we are divorced and have been. I told D11 that is not true. We are separated and there is not even a D pending right now.
Then D7 tells me that she wanted to call me and tell me goodnight and W would not let her. Both kids have lost their cell phones. Frusturating.
Kevin
So basically you told your daughter D11 that her mom was a liar? Why didnt you just say that its not nice to listen when people are on the phone and leave it at that?
Now your D will go back and tell your W that you said that ya'll were not divorced but separated and your D *will* tell your W that you said it isnt true.
And why on earth would you tell an 11yo about legalities like "nothing pending with a divorce"?
You sound kind of odd today - what is the deal?
D11 said she didn't know what to tell people that were asking so I told her the truth. If it comes back to W that W is found out lying, thats W's problem. I'm not going to lie to my kids. As it is, I am already covering up a lot of what W has done because the kids have no business knowing it. But if D11 wants to know if we are D'd or not, I will answer her with the truth.
If W gets mad about her lie being found out, maybe she shouldn't be telling lies to people.
I think I am just getting to the point where I don't care what W thinks anymore. She obviously doesn't care about me.
Kevin
I think the best response you could have given your daughter on what to tell people is that it is a private family matter and she prefer not to discuss it.
I am not suggesting you lie to your kids but once again your daughter is put in the middle of an adult issue between you and your W. There really is no reason to cover up anything your W is doing because you should not be talking about your W with your kids at all.
You cant control what your W tells people. And it is good you dont care what W thinks anymore but for you its "tit for tat"... she doesnt care about you so you wont care about her and you "not caring" seems to always involve your kids and putting them in the middle. You *will* have to co-parent with this woman for many yrs to come so I think you need to change yoru outlook.
If you really dont care what your W thinks anymore then why do you care if she says she is divorced?
And where exactly has this "tit for tat" approach gotten you thus far? Not that far that I can see.
D11 said she didn't know what to tell people that were asking so I told her the truth. If it comes back to W that W is found out lying, thats W's problem. I'm not going to lie to my kids. As it is, I am already covering up a lot of what W has done because the kids have no business knowing it. But if D11 wants to know if we are D'd or not, I will answer her with the truth.
Gee, I hope your w won't just take care of things once and for all and make it all official so that you'll be the one who's lying then...come on, your w feels the divorce is an expensive formality and you HAD to correct this...b/c why?? You want to be factually accurate? Fine, she'll fix that. Or you want to be "right"? We know the answer. And now that you are technically, "right", so what?
If W gets mad about her lie being found out, maybe she shouldn't be telling lies to people.
Well she'll take care of that by making it a reality - so you won't have to worry anymore about that issue...sheesh...way to force her hand.
I think I am just getting to the point where I don't care what W thinks anymore. She obviously doesn't care about me.
God I wish you didn't care what she thinks or says...I sooo wish...
Kevin
Sure, you are separated and she wants a divorce and has not had it finalized...But you didn't tell that to your d. Nope. You told her what you like to think is true. As if your w has let the div drop or something. But by pointing this out, you have likely eliminated it as ever being true. Do you see this?
j-
I guess I didn't think about that. Again, I am not a quick thinker on my feet. One of my big problems is reacting before I think.
And ya, I guess it did bother me that she was saying that. So I guess I do still care what she thinks. I think I was just frusturated at that moment and again did not use the best judgement.
On the bright side of things, W wants nothing to dow ith me except for switching off the girls. Sarcasm.
I am taking dance lessons now. Thats new for me. I actually have quite a bit going on now and I am somewhat starting to enjoy things again to some extent that I haven't enjoyed since September of last year. I actually am able to sit down and watch a soccer game on TV and enjoy it again. I am experiementing with cooking again and finding things I like to eat and flavor that I couldn't do before with W. It is slowly coming along. Its a long process for me. But I am not in complete despair anymore. I am not so destroyed that I can't enjoy things anymore. Its slowly coming back to me. I'm not completely there yet either, but I am making progress in those areas.
We are in our busy cycle at work right now so that helps out. I have no choice but to be focused and I think that is a good thing right now. The nights aren't to bad. Really its the weekends without the kids that are hard right now. I am still adjusting to that. But I would say that I am doing better than I have in a very very long time.
Kevin
Good, keep moving ahead and working on being the best dad you can be.
That is really really good news.
j-
How's those meetings going?
W told me its over and she won't keep the door open for a future reconciliation either.
Kevin
I guess I made far to many mistakes in this process.
Kevin
W told me its over and she won't keep the door open for a future reconciliation either.
Kevin
What brought this up now?
Remember NOT to listen to anything she says and only what she does?
Hopefully you didnt start a R convo about how much u changed. jeesh!
Are u a newby?
Keep the faith brotha.
PMA
Stop talking to her about it.
Regardless of what happens with your marriage, it is you who are responsible for your own happiness. You have to identify ways to achieve that happiness independently of your marriage.
That holds true for all of us!
Now and then you have to be grateful for the clarity the WAS tries to give, even though their words only mean so much.
You know what you have to keep doing, which is GAL and working on the PMA.
j-
I made the dumb mistake of asking her if she is still keeping the door open for a possibly future reconciliation like she had said before. She said no. I said is there anything I can do to change that. She said just leave her alone. I said ok, I will.
Kevin
You absolutely have to stop any desperate, demeaning behavior. It gives your power away and erodes the relationship further.
I made the dumb mistake of asking her if she is still keeping the door open for a possibly future reconciliation like she had said before. She said no. I said is there anything I can do to change that. She said just leave her alone. I said ok, I will.
Kevin
Kevin,
What happened to trusting God? We are ALL subject to our own human weaknesses....but, I don't understand why you keep repeating this behaviour? It is so self-destructive. It almost appears that you WANT her to file again. I know that isn't true but it is the only way I can begin to understand this behaviour. I'm looking forward to seeing you tomorrow. We can catch up then.
FH!!!
I miss you!
Living God's blessings with grace and dignity~
SMW
(((SMW))),
I miss you too!!! Sorry for the hijack K4D but I had to give my dear friend a hug!
Sorry, too, Kevin--
You could always come visit my thread, FH (hint hint)
Living God's blessings with grace and dignity~
SMW
SMW,
I'm trying to catch up on your thread right now! I'm all the way up to July 4th!
I know. It was a dumb question. I should have just left it alone. No I don't want her to refile at all.
FaithfulH, I am looking forward to hanging out again tomorrow as well. It should be fun.
I did enjoy my kids last night. I get them back this Sunday night. They came up with some meal ideas they want next week so that should be fun cooking them together. They don't really get that option at W's house. So its fun for them.
Kevin
k4d,
FaithfulH is a gift to you. And you must listen to him and if you disagree then tell him so he doesn't feel ignored. He's a Godsend and he's there in your life for a reason. You do repeat behaviors but then you make internal progress. I hope you can learn to stop your mouth or put a filter on it. It gets you into trouble time and again with the kids and your wife.
CG gave you some great advice on thought stopping too. Did you check that out? It'll help you STOP talking in a destructive way as well. THis isn't just about saving your M, now, it's about learning an important life skill.
(( j ))
I'm not ignoring him at all. He is a great imspiration. I just made a stupid decision. One of many.
Kevin
We have all told you multiple times how to avoid making and saying things that are stupid and destructive. When you feel the need to say something to your W regarding the R hold your tounge and wait 24-48 hours before you say anything. After that time passes and you still feel the need to say something to her post it here first. But you still do not do that. Why?
You say you dont think quickly on your feet and we have given you solutions on how combat that but you continue to do things your way.
Have you been practicing the emotional thought stopping techniques from the website(s) I posted? What methods are you using from all the suggested ones?
I will have to answer later. I am out dancing and having fun for a change.
Kevin
Hey Kev,
How are the AA meetings going, when was the last one you attended?
Have you helped your children get counseling or help? Don't drop the ball on these as you have to keep going and helping yourself and your kids.
I think you all will be proud of me. I made my first real DBing response demanding respect today after W texted me and I did not become her doormat for a change.
Here is how the conversation went.
W: Is there a reason you took EVERY SINGLE tool? Because to my knowledge we didn't agree to that. I need tools. You need to give some back.
Kevin: I don't appreciate your tone. When you can speak to me in a civil tone, I will respond.
W: There's so much I don't appreciate about you. You're lucky this is all I say.
Break here, I did not respond.
Later...
W: You can't possibly be surprised that I am upset with you. You are still contacting me about your life. What time will you be home for me to bring the girls over?
Kevin: 6pm
W: I will have them there by 7. Please have the tools by the door.
And that was the end of the conversation. We had talked briefly this week and I said I would be taking dance lessons Friday night and that I was looking at a house I was thinking about buying. I thought she might want to know if I bought a house. Kind of affects things. I guess not though. I probably should not have mentioned that I was taking dance lessons. She didn't care even though she acted like that was cool.
Oh well, during the conversation today, I had a lady friend with me as we were out getting a smoothie and she majored in psychology and she was telling me how to respond to each text. She said I need to demand respect which is what all of you have said so she told me what to reply back with.
I think she done good. It will be interesting to see how things go tonite when W drops off the kids. I'm going to try and stay out of the way and just do my thing. I am boiling a whole chicken right now. I just finished grocery shopping.
All in all this weekend was very good. I started learning how to dance Friday night with a friend. Yesterday I met a friend and a group of people that get together and just chat every saturday afternoon. Last night I went to dinner and a movie with FaithfulH and had a great time with him. This morning I went to church and hung out with a friend for the afternoon.
Life is looking up. Its hard at times because I do still think about W and when and if things will ever change with her. But again, its not destroying me anymore. I am learning how to enjoy myself again. Its a different lifestyle than what it used to be. But thats ok. As long as I am working on me, I will be ok. I don't NEED W. But I sure do miss her and hope she comes back at some point with a change of heart. I continue to pray every day.
She may not look like a sweetie. But deep down inside, way way way deep down inside, really far deep deep down inside in a tiny little place in that heart, she is.
Kevin
hi there comrade in the arms of Christ.
how is the Dallas sattelite arm of our "standers" contingent coming along?
hope you are well. And that this day to honor our sovereign Lord has been a great one for fellowship, devotion and the like.
Ted
and tell Bob B that I think you and him should go to karaoke some night so you can be overcome with laughter LOL
the man rivals Luciano Pavarotti I think hahaha
Hi Tomato.
We will have to try that karaoke some night. That would probably be funny.
The standers isn't quite coming along yet. But I think once FaithfulH is here we can get more of a group going because there will at least be 2 of us and we can grow it from there.
The day is good. And yes, the Lord is with us. I will be doing some further reading tonite and praying as I try to do most nights.
How are things going with you? How was your weekend?
Kevin
it is a kinda tiring but joyful w/e here. I am fairly heavy into the real estate hunt for my very FIRST house. Exciting and tiresome just the same. Like everything else ...all according to His timing. Thx for asking.
I think I heard you mention about a potential piece of property that you spotted . Gues your considering a move as well huh?
I'm thinking it over. I don't want to stay in an apartment forever and I don't know when or if my W will ever come back. So I found a house that is a bit older for a great price that I am looking at. I could afford this house and I would have a front and back yard. I could have my dog back and grill out on the back patio. It would be nice. I would have to repaint the walls. But thats ok. It would give me something to do. I haven't made a decision yet. Just thinking it over.
I have to proceed with my life and just keep praying for a reconciliation. But where my W is right now, it isn't going to probably be for a very very long time. I just don't want to wait in an apartment for years to come.
Kevin
I am happily counting down the days when I am not living under someone elses roof and paying for someone elses mortgage. I will pay for my own thx. And now couldn't be a better time to do so
I am blessed to have a job and a decent one at that. So I will not wait any longer than I absolutely have to get my 1st place. Real excited. And finally making it a priority.
T
I am online hunting for the real estate kill right now. just stalking. The Lord will give me a nudge when the right one comes along. I am confident. Afterall Y shouldn't I be. We are talking God. And He is great.
T
I wish you the best on the house hunting and I will pray for you that you find the right one.
Kevin
thanks Kev. I really appreciate that. Have a great closeout to your w/e.
I extend my prayers & support to you always bro'.
T
Thanks Tomato,
You to and I extend my prayers and support to you as well.
Kevin
I am online hunting for the real estate kill right now. just stalking. The Lord will give me a nudge when the right one comes along. I am confident. Afterall Y shouldn't I be. We are talking God. And He is great.
T
"Commit your works to the Lord, and your thoughts will be established!"
Puppy
The Drop Off...
W got here at 8pm. She brought over a bag of ice because I asked her if she could pick one up on her way since I was trying to boil a chicken at the time. So her and the kids come in and I am just sitting at the table deshelling pistachios. I don't really say anything. She finishes bringing stuff up. I thank her for the ice. She says you are welcomed.
Then I ask the kids if they made it to church this morning. They said no. W never really takes them anymore. I shook my head in disbelief. W saw me and starts to explain her weekend. Apparently the AC and hot water heater went out in the house so they had to stay with her mom. There was also gas in the house from the connection some how. I guess things didn't go well. Then Saturday she took the van to 3 different garages and couldn't get it to pass inspection and has to put some money into getting it fixed. She almost broke down in tears telling me. Then she says it has been a really crappy weekend so no, they didn't make it to church. Then she turns and starts walking out. I followed her out and told her I am sorry, I didn't know. And she said no, I didn't.
She didn't want to talk about it any further. I could tell she was really frusturated with her weekend. I hadn't seen her almost break down like that in forever. I had begun to wonder if she was still human. She didn't end up crying, but I could see it in her eyes that she was close.
The sad thing is, I really wanted to step in and help her out which I could. But she doesn't want it and this is the past she has chosen at this point and time. So I didn't.
I don't like to see her frusturated like that or having problems like that. But there is nothing I can do about. She is choosing this lifestyle. It made me think praise God that I am not really having any problems. Ya, things are tighter for me and I have to watch money closer and I am trying to save money. But overall, nothing is giving me any major headaches in life other than not having my wife. My life is getting better little by little.
She just looked like she was having a real tough time tonite. I think she didn't want to tell me she is having some difficulties because she has so much pride. But when I shook my head, she felt the need to defend herself. Little did I know what had been going on. I probably blew an opportunity to look good in her eyes. But at the same time as far as I was aware, everything has been going fantastic for her in her life. And had I not shook my head, I would not have known what was really going on.
Oh well. I love her and I pray for us to reconcile. I don't like to see her like this but I can't step in and help her out.
Kevin
"I probably blew an opportunity to look good in her eyes."
not if you remained CONFIDENT that everything is going GREAT in your life. let her see for herself that the single life is NOT everything she taught it was cut out to be. Remember, "My life is getting better ..."
SM
Ya. I was thinking about it more this morning and it was hard seeing her and then seeing her look frusturated about her weekend. She doesn't realize how much I love her and want to step in and help her. But I just can't right now and she wouldn't have any part of it. I guess welcome to the single life.
Her drivers license is expired to and she can't get that renewed until her van passes inspection. On top of that, she likes to go out and party and drink and drive. If she ends up getting a DUI with an expired drivers license and a vehicle that has not passed inspection, wow. That won't be a good night for her. Ironically, she never seems to get caught though.
She had spent yesterday cleaning up the kids rooms and didn't find either of their cell phones. So I guess we are getting them new ones.
As usual, its always hard to see her and then see her walk away knowing that nothing has changed in her. She has a ton of pride in her decisions and it takes a miracle to change that. I will say she is definitely a survivor in whatever form that may come in.
The long journey continues.
Kevin
I find myself wanting to tell W how hard it is to watch her walk away each time we exchange the kids. But I don't say anything. It really is difficult though.
Kevin
I'm not sure that I follow the *SMACK* being as how I don't tell her its hard to see her walk away.
Kevin
The SMACK is for allowing your W to continue to consume your thoughts. No, you didnt act on them but allowing them to dominate so much of your headspace is equally as bad and shows zero signs of detachement on your part.
She chose the single life so let her deal with *all* aspects of being single and that includes the problems that arise.
I cant tell you how many times my H said to me "this is hard" when we were having our asset talk about the health insurance. His feelings to own and process and I didnt even respond with a comment. Yup, its hard and his problem. It sounds cold but its the reality of the situation.
You cant be partners with somebody just when you need something, its all or nothing. She chose nothing so let her deal with her issues on her own. Its not easy to watch somebody we care about struggle (and that goes for any R, not just a marriage) but there were many alternatives that she CHOSE not to take before walking away. Again, that was her choice but now that she is starting to feel the consequences those are hers to deal with.
Just because you dont act on your feelings it doesnt mean much has changed because they still swim in your head with full force. Not acting on them is a positive. Now you really need to focus on not thinking and worrying about them. Things are just fine for you and that is all that matters at this point and time.
Yep. If you had ACTED on 'em, I would've sent THREE smacks.
K4D, how "intuitive" would you say your wife is?
Puppy
Puppy,
I would say she is extremely intuitive.
Trying to over come all the mistakes I have made in the past and in this process just seems like an impossible situation at times. But I try and keep faith none the less.
Kevin
"She has a ton of pride in her decisions and it takes a miracle to change that."
Seriously? You're throwing the blame back onto your W?
What exactly have you changed from that list she gave you? It was pretty comprehensive and she told you EXACTLY what was wrong with you. At least your W is able to articulate things and quite frankly if you had addressed those issues in the beginning of this process you wouldn't be where you are now.
Puppy,
I would say she is extremely intuitive.
Then don't you think she can see right thru you, if you're still THINKING these things, even though you're not ACTING on them??
I guar-an-damn-tee you, she can READ YOU LIKE A BOOK. This is why CG and others are trying to get you to TRULY change the way you think (DETACH!), and not just what you do or don't act upon.
Puppy
Stuck,
I was not putting the blame on her. I just know that she does have a lot of pride in everything she does and that makes things harder in a situation like this.
But thanks for being there to continually hammer me on past mistakes that I can't go back and change that would have had a different outcome than the one I am in now. I am more than aware that things could have been different now. I am trying to dig my way out of this very deep hole now. But it won't happen over night.
As far as what have I changed. The obvious one of not getting drunk anymore.
I am more responsible with everything now.
I don't rely on W for her help anymore.
The last 2 times we ML back in February I was very attentive to her.
I'm becoming a better dad.
I'm getting a life.
I am more comfortable at home than I used to be by myself.
I faith is stronger and better than it used to be.
I'm not relying on her to enjoy myself, but I would still like to have her back.
Those are some of the things.
Puppy,
You would be right. I guess she can read me like a book.
CG,
I get what you are saying about let them live with whatever happens in their choices because it is their choice. But it is still hard when you care about someone and love them to watch them have a difficult time with stuff. But I also know that if I stepped in, it wouldn't be appreciated and nothing would change.
Detaching doesn't mean I don't care about my W. It just means I am not dependent on her.
Kevin
Stuck,
Sorry about that. I know you are only trying to help. I think I just felt a bit frusturated by that. The past mistakes that I made do haunt me more than anyone knows and I do know that things could have been different now had I handled them right from the beginning. Its just frusturating to know that and then be reminded of that.
I appreciate your insight. I'm just trying to do what I can now the right way and hope at some point down the road maybe I will still have a shot at things.
Kevin
Why did you ask your d's IN FRONT OF YOUR WIFE, whether they'd gone to church??
Oh wait, I know. To make her look bad again!!! Don't BS us. We know your motives. If the answer had been yes, you'd have said to us, if not HER, "Well gee, how can she go to church and be such a sinner?" But the answer was better in your eyes b/c you got to shake your head in disbelief, "oh the agony!!" Good grief!
Yes Kevin you are still blaming her and as far as HER PRIDE...please....look in the mirror. I am surprised she comes into the apartment at all.
Smack Smack....stop thinking about her for God's sake, or for your d's sake or yours....please.
Try ONE idea that CG suggested with the thought stopping...just ONCE!!
So you can control the things you say and the things swimming around in the mind of yours. Sometimes I wonder how much insight you really have into yourself. If your w is half as intuitive as you say, she saw right through you as we do. And she resented it b/c she does not have amnesia. Your changes are "you don't drink" and as far as she can tell, that's it. And here you go on and on about the church going. PLEASE stop talking about it!
TO her, it's hypocritical, judgmental, self righteous, AND I can see why she'd feel that way! What was your goal in asking about church, right then and there while your w was still there? Be honest Kevin. It was to shame her, which somehow to you, means that she'll come back?? OR that you'll get to feel more "right"....neither makes any sense to her.
You still tell her all the things you are doing as if she's concerned or she's your buddy and she's usually polite enough to answer and say "cool"...but when she's not, it surprises you.... (Btw, why buy a house if your job is NOT yet permanent? Is it still a temp job? Aren't you a tad premature buying a home then? )
So, two steps forward, one back. Keep on keeping on but try more new things in your interactions. FWIW, I am thrilled you don't feel so hopeless anymore. That's a big thing.
Congrats on that.
(( j ))
FWIW, I am thrilled you don't feel so hopeless anymore. That's a big thing.[/b]
Congrats on that.
(( j ))
Wow, what's this, the new kinder, gentler 25YMLC? C'mon, tell us you're not goin' all SOFT on us now, 25 . . .
Puppy
Ouch. I think I need to *SMACK* myself after that one. That was apparently a big step back. That was probably me returning back to the old Kev which I really don't want to do. I should not have said anything. I think I was just tired of her always not putting any importance on the kids going to church. And in the process of making a point, I did become the hypocrite and not an example of someone that wants to do things how Jesus would. Jesus wouldn't have done that. That was something I should not have done.
I think frusturation has been getting to me some between yesterday and today.
I'm sure she saw the old Kev and it was just a reminder that she doesn't want to be with me. One little screw up can set things way back. Ugg. I should have kept that in check. I won't make that mistake again.
I really am trying to be better. I just had a setback last night AGAIN.
You really have to be darn near perfect for a very very long time to make even just a little bit of progress. Its a tough road. It doesn't help to do something stupid like that which could have been easily avoided. In all honesty, that was trying to be controlling of a situation wasn't it. I shouldn't have done that. I am still having to learn that road but at the same time not be a doormat. I'm still trying to find the middle ground there. Don't try and control anything, but don't get run over either.
Kevin
Also, yes, my job is still a temp job and I am still waiting for it to go perm. I am pretty confident it will. The interest rates are so low right now and prices are down, its hard not to look at something right now house wise.
Kevin
Hmm. I wonder how I dig myself out of this one now. She doesn't want anything to do with me at all and I just set myself back even more. This definitely feels like a never ending job at times. But when I keep making mistakes, thats how it is.
I did apologize to her. But I'm sure she was still thinking "jerk" in her mind. Uggg.
I'm really not a jerk. I was just feeling frusturated last night and this morning. I'm actually a really nice person.
I just blew it.
Kevin
Here is one link on "emotional thought stopping" that is quite good and offers a four part lesson on the ins and outs of it all.
http://www.livestrong.com/article/14703-thought-stopping-in-recovery/If you do a Google search using the keywords "emotional thought stopping techniques" you will come up with many other links that are equally as good although for the most part the concept is the same.
HTH!
CG,
A long overdue thanks for posting this...
-AlexEN
But it is still hard when you care about someone and love them to watch them have a difficult time with stuff.
K4D,
This comment makes me think you still don't understand detachment. You detach for you
AND them! You do it
BECAUSE you love them! Please re-read the article:
What is detachment? Failing to detach is actually SELFISH!
Then STOP it! Other people can, and do...and so can you! You just have to want to do it bad enough, man!
Maybe trying to stop the thoughts doesn't always work. This is a fascinating article on a different approach-
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1156613,00.html
Thanks FaithfulH,
You are right. I reread the article. I guess I lose sight of things sometimes. I lose sight of my goals sometimes and how to obtain them.
I am back on it though.
Kevin
Ok,
So my sister had her 7th baby tonite. Its a baby girl. My sister got to the hospital at 5:45 and the baby was born at 5:52 while my sister was in the restroom. Talk about a quick delivery. Her doctor arrived 15 minutes later. She and the baby are doing good. So that makes 4 girls and 3 boys for them. Wow. They all live in Charlotte NC.
So today is cause for thanking the Lord for another addition to the family. My daughters were very excited about their new cousin. They asked when we were going to go visit. I said I don't know at this point. But we will eventually.
I didn't tell W about it. She doesn't want to know what is going on in my life. So I just told my daughters.
There is a lot to be thankful for today.
Kevin
Ok,
So my sister had her 7th baby tonite. Its a baby girl. My sister got to the hospital at 5:45 and the baby was born at 5:52 while my sister was in the restroom. Talk about a quick delivery. Her doctor arrived 15 minutes later. She and the baby are doing good. So that makes 4 girls and 3 boys for them. Wow. They all live in Charlotte NC.
So today is cause for thanking the Lord for another addition to the family. My daughters were very excited about their new cousin. They asked when we were going to go visit. I said I don't know at this point. But we will eventually.
I didn't tell W about it. She doesn't want to know what is going on in my life. So I just told my daughters.
There is a lot to be thankful for today.
Kevin
Yes there is. (SO Who cares whether your w knows? )
Keep on doing what you are doing. Yes you do backslide and maybe it's more than some others do. But you are also making progress. So keep it up and don't berate yourself so much and maybe, just maybe you don't have to apologize to your wife for much anymore. WE can tell you that the church question was controlling/hypocritical, but you don't have to point out your every mistake and flaw to your w (that's HER JOB!! --kidding)
just carry on and she'll eventually notice the new confident Kevin, when we do.
Or maybe a little later. But she will notice but that is NOT why you'll be doing it, is it? Of course not. GLAD you read the detachment piece. Keep reading it til it's second nature if you have to.
You will make it Kevin, I think. That's a big step for ME to think. (See Pup, I give high fives to him!!)
Seriously, more or less -forward and backward--you are getting thru this...
(( j ))
Thanks 25,
That means a lot coming from you. I am trying to make it. I definitely need less back sliding. I'm working on it.
Kevin
Kev
that's it in a nutshell.
When you make progress, hold onto it. No backsliding. The Marines are saying that right now in Afghanistan--,
"Where we have not yet made progress/inroads, we will push in and take hold, and then we will not yield, and where we take back that which had been lost, we will hold it, and never yield it back."
Do that.
J-
What a morning,
D7 put up a huge fight this morning about getting up and then having to go to the rec center. Plus she is going on a field trip today and needed money to play video games. I had to stop and get her a bottle of water for her lunch. The store didn't let me pull out cash. Then I had to get them to the rec center and go in a pay the 2 week bill. Needless to say I was late getting to work this morning because she was fighting with me and D11. She later apologized to D11 in the car.
D11 was telling me last night that she hates her life because she is having trouble making friends at the rec center. I guess the other kids think they are cool according to her and she only has one friend that hangs with her. So we talked a little bit about that and I tried to give her suggestions on how she can have a better time there. Apparently kids try and draw her into sides and argue with her. I told her to tell them to leave her out of it and if they continue, just ignore them. Eventually they will walk away if you don't react.
D11 is getting to go to a friends pool party this afternoon so that made her happy. Its a friend from church. She was able to tell me some other things as well. She knows that she can come to me about anything and thats good. That will be really important the older she gets.
I have been looking over the website rejoiceministries.org and have decided I will be a stander for my M no matter what and no matter how long it takes. If I keep working on myself and praying for my marriage to be restored, God will make it happen with time. It will be in his time, not mine. But I know it will happen.
The alarming thing to me was that when you look at the success stories they have posted, its about 90% husbands returning and 10% wives returning from doing a general scan of what is posted in the success section. That didn't exactly build my confidence. But I know through God any thing is possible and if you are faithful and allow him to change you and you don't stray, he will fix things.
Tonite my kids are with their mom and then I get them back tomorrow night until Sunday night. I'm not sure what I am going to do tonite, but I know it will include praying and reading. I know that God has to complete changing me before he can start working on W and bringing her back into the equation.
Kevin
I have to see W tonight. I have to pick up D11 from her pool party and take her to W's house. I didn't shave today either. Oh well. I will put my best foot forward anyways for the brief moment I will see her.
Kevin
Good. She will see that you're no longer trying to impress her.
Focus on YOU not HER.
I guess it would show that. I dread seeing her as it is always hard immediately after. All those feelings come back to me as soon as we part ways even if it was brief.
I love her. Maybe I will go out to dinner after.
Kevin
Ok. I picked up D11 and dropped her off at W's house. I didn't see W. Then I went out to dinner with a friend and hung out some. Now I am back home. I get my girls back tomorrow. I need to figure out what to do with them this Saturday. Its just so blasted hot during the day here. Its even to hot to swim.
Kevin
Maybe you could take them to the library and/or rent some movies if its too hot outside.
Ok. I picked up D11 and dropped her off at W's house. I didn't see W. Then I went out to dinner with a friend and hung out some. Now I am back home. I get my girls back tomorrow. I need to figure out what to do with them this Saturday. Its just so blasted hot during the day here. Its even to hot to swim.
Kevin
Take em' to Great Wolf Lodge in Grapevine. It's enclosed and air-conditioned.
I just want to know if the whole STANDING = "Waiting for w to return no matter what" means what I fear it means for you...
No GAL, no true living, no sustained 180s, & only focusing on girls to pass the time, and hope they somehow help you in your R with your wife, or can be manipulated in conversations about HER or going to church, or what she is doing, or the legal status of the div, or your R talks with them about her....
There was a time you said you knew you could be happy with or without her. That was the healthiest post you have written, by far. THAT POST --SHOWED FAITH IN IT.
Then I posted about not backsliding and holding on to this progress, and you agreed. But To me, what you just said, pretty much is a major backslide to where you were months ago. IT is ALL about getting her back and nothing else will do. How sad. After all this time, do you still not get it? DBing is not about getting your spouse back no matter what....it's so much more...that's why "success rates of recon" are only part of the story. The REAL story is how happy the people are who have been here and taken charge of their own lives and happiness. They find in all their situations, that they are more attractive to others, as they GAL and become who they were meant to become. That increases, but does not guarantee the chance of a recon. Free will on the part of the WAS still exists and always will.
How demanding of God to tell him what you want/expect and refuse to do without. God won't make her come back. He gave her free will, remember? Standing isn't about saying "she comes back or else"....You can call your standing a form of faith, some will call it stubborn denial...I just call it sad. And like you have amnesia...so much beauty and love all around that you will not see if you focus ONLY on her and returning to you, as you are.
How can the same guy who posted last week about detaching, post this? Maybe detaching got too frightening...I don't know.
j-
25yrs,
I believe your fears on the STANDERS group aren't a problem. Overall Kevin seems to be very gradually making some strides and his joing us in the standers group will be a significant part of those strides for him. FaithfulH and I and all the great many other guys (unfortunately ...but fortunately our ranks are growing & growing) will provide Kevin with much needed balance for his continued progress in making things right with him and furthering his faith walk w/ the Lord.
Ted
cont'd
so that it might clean up some misconceptions ...standing for your M in NO way means that you trapse off to your corner of prayer and shut all systems down in your personal life while waiting for the Holy One to turn the heart of your spouse around.
Standing is instead dynamic ...not stagnant or standing still.
It revolves around a core of faith. Having confidence that God is handling all the minusia (sp?) while you make yourself into a refined and polished individual.
Ted
furthermore ...good ole Kevin will have a whole host of people reinforcing his positive changes and seeing to it that he does next to no backsliding.
I know how to swing the lumber. I have honed that skill since I arrived on the scene at DB central.
Tomato,
I trust and accept your views about "standing" and I know faithfulH well. He helped me a lot, and in case you don't know,
I AM a stander. ANd With good results I had not really known would come about. So in my post to Kevin, I tried to word things very carefully with kevin, specifically FOR him and so I said something like "what standing means to YOU, Kevin"....b/c I know what it means to others and what it meant to me. But I am NOT sure what it means to him....
I am not at all sure about that. What he says one day, and does the next are not consistent and this has been a long time problem. I have been with kevin a long time. Privately, and here on the DB boards. Maybe my frustration is higher b/c of that but I remain committed to seeing it thru until I feel completely useless, which I hope I become someday. Don't we all want to be useless? b/c someday we all hope we all "get it", AND that our WAS do too and that dbing is a way of life in the best manner possible.
As you aptly say,
Standing does not mean hiding in the corner praying a
and just hoping and doing nothing else. I get that. There are a few people here and there, who do not though. Seriously. But Believe me,
standing for me, meant keeping my vows BUT GAL AND MOVING ON and doing lots of things that did NOT include sitting still. Or doing nothing. The hard part is Standing, not the easy part. I have come to believe that some people use the word 'standing" to mean "sitting" or staying stuck, or not looking inward to fix that which needs mending and healing, and they often continue to blame the WAS for all the problems and act as if "Standing" makes them a martyr, so much blame goes on, it makes you wonder why they are standing, or what they are standing FOR....
and how on God's earth a WAS would return to that.
Leaving the judgments aside though,
For me, standing presented an odd dichotomy b/c it meant hoping for a recon, which required lots of forgiveness AND internal work, BUT it also included knowing full well my h might NOT come back so I had to GAL and work on me and care for the kids, AND that if he did not come back, I'd still be just fine b/c my faith and work here and with a good DB coach and T, I came to KNOW that I'm a good woman, a good catch, a woman only a fool would leave etc., but I still STOOD for the M. Most of all, "standing" meant TRUSTING that even if H didn't return to me and our children, God had something else even better, beyone my comprehension, planned for me right around the corner.
This enabled me to GAL and move forward without feeling I was quitting my M.
So Tomato, It's not "standing" I'm concerned about...it's who means what, when they say it.
Hope this clarifies what I meant. Next time you see FaithfulH please give him a hug (a DB appropriate hug, of course!!
I support standing the way you mean it and faithfulH and such. I am grateful FH and K4 have met too.
Good luck
( j )[b][/b]
25,
Let me clear up a misconception. I agree that "standing" does not mean shutting down and just waiting. It means that I am keeping my vows regardless of what happens. It in no way at all means that I am not trying to better myself and my life. It just means in the past I have had thoughts of giving up on the M and maybe looking for someone else even though I didn't believe in it. But I have since made a concious decision not to do that. I will keep my vows and keep working on me and trying to make myself happy in life while I wait for what God has in store for me.
I personally believe that my W will return one day. God did say he could turn a heart of stone into a heart of flesh. God brought lazarus back from the dead. God has worked many miracles in life to those who were faithful and believed and prayed and asked for it. For instance, take you and your H. Take FaithfulH and his W. Look at all the success stories on rejoiceministries.org.
He can certainly change hearts and does. But it is in his timing. In the mean time, like I said earlier, I know that process can't begin until he is done working on me. That doesn't mean me running and hiding in a corner somewhere. That means me making the changes I need to make so that I can be in a position for him to work on my W and restore our M like he has so many others.
To say that God won't do it is to lack faith I think. That says that prayers are worthless. Look at how many people come to Christ because someone else prayed and prayed for them and they felt something. Look at the stories of S's returning because they felt like God was talking to them at some point down the road because people had been praying. I firmly believe that God works miracles to this day and that he wants marriages to be restored and that if you pray and make the changes needed by allowing him to change you that he will bless you and restore your M. Obviously it could be years before that happens and so often is. But still, it happens.
So no, I will not getting a life. And I will not just use my girls to pass time. Granted I need a bit more motivation at times to get out and focus on me. I'm not perfect or quite there all the way yet. But I am really focusing on my spiritual side and trying to put God first in my life and my girls life.
And I think I am part of an excellent group now that Tomato and FaithfulH are part of. And I am very grateful to have met you and have you working with me.
I have a lot of blessings to be thankful for and a lot of resources to put into place.
By "standing" I stand for my M. I will not look at another woman as an opportunity even when I feel down about how things are going. I stand for my marriage no matter what the situation is. Some days are better than others. Yesterday I was feeling more upbeat. Last night I had a discouraging dream and thought about it more while I was getting ready this morning and wondered why I would have a dream like that right after feeling upbeat about things and my stand.
I still stand none the less and I am still working towards getting a life and planning my future.
One of the things I pondered yesterday was DBing says act as if they are not coming back. But if you are going to pray with faith and confidence, the bible tells you to pray as though it has already happened. So you may not see results right away or for some time. But that doesn't mean that the motions haven't been put into place. You just may not be able to see it right now. You don't stop your life and wait. Infact, I almost think you prepare as if they are coming back, but at the same time, still work on you and getting a life.
I was thinking about buying a house. Me and FaithfulH talked about it. He said look at a house that would include your W coming back. That is part of preparing for what you are praying for.
If you don't prepare for what you are praying for, its almost as if you are not praying with faith that it will happen. Its like the farmer who prepares his seeds and then prays for rain. He is prepared for what he is praying for. What good would it do to pray for rain if you have not prepared for it ahead of time?
I hope this makes sense and is not looked at as backsliding but more as having faith in your prayers.
Getting a life is part of preparing because W isn't going to want to come back to the same thing she was in before.
Kevin
Also,
I am not putting any blame on her. I am aware of what I did to be put in this situation. I have asked for forgiveness for what I did and I have forgiven her as well. I don't need her. But I genuinely love her and want her back and I want our family pieced back together. It would be better for all of us especially the kids. But things have to be right first.
I am spending time listening to sermons at night. And not about marriage, but about my spirituality and salvation. I am spending time working on the same things with my daughters and they are really getting into it. I read some on M stuff. But it isn't my only focus.
And rejoiceministries.org is very uplifting when you have down moments and there is a lot of good advice on there. God invented M. Of course he wants to restore your M. If God can bring me to my knees, he can certainly bring anyone to their knees and change hearts. Never underestimate the power of prayer and preparing yourself.
My situation looks impossible. It definitely won't be over night. But it will happen over time. And when it does, I am going to give all the glory to God. But in order for God to do that, I have to make God #1 in my life regardless of circumstances and not for any other reason other than loving God and wanting to follow him.
I can prove this. I am going to a church that my W detests because I believe it is where I am supposed to be. Thats a big mark against me. I have worried about that affecting her coming back. But I am doing it anyways because I disagree with her on the church. I am willing to walk in the path that I believe my salvation to be even if it means she doesn't come back. But I do believe with time she will. I have chosen God over trying to please her. So I would not say that I am backsliding. If I was backsliding here, I would be doing what she wants me to do. My salvation is more important than whether or not she comes back. Her salvation and my kids salvation are equally important as mine. But I have to focus on me and the kids regardless of what she thinks. So I would say that I am making progress because of that.
Kevin
To clear up any mystery here so you all don't think I am weird, I have been going to a traditional latin mass catholic church. My W is against the catholic church. But I believe that is where I am supposed to be.
I'm not looking to start a religious discussion either. I am just stating the situation. I have been also working with a priest there and he is a very nice priest. He is a great guy, very caring and compassionate and a wonderful priest.
Kevin
Kevin,
I completely understand your feelings. Before the bomb was dropped, I was in the seminary to become an ordained permanent Deacon.
I love the church, it is my life.
If I may also suggest if you can talk to a Deacon. I have been talking to a friend of mine who is a Deacon, and as it happens, my MC is a Deacon. These men are married, and have a wealth of experiences to add to whatever spiritual guidance they can give. Don't stop talking to the priest, though, if it is comforting for you. I only suggest this because it has worked wonders for me.
What surprises me in my sitch is that my W came to me during a very spiritually dry time in my life and brought me back to the Church. It was through discernment with her that I followed my calling to the Diaconate. And now she wants to turn her back on our marriage vows.
I have stated before that I pray daily for everyone here.
If there is anything you want to discuss spiritually, I would be very willing to. Maybe a new thread, or somehow communicating by email or something.
As Pope John Paul II said; "Fear not"
(My 3 year old boy is named Johnpaul)
PS I have been wanting to go to a latin mass for sometime now, but the nearest parish that does it is almost an hour away. Maybe some Sunday I will make the trip by myself.
Hi orich,
I would love to talk to you sometime. My email address is what my former username used to be a yahoo.com. I just don't want to post it anymore since I know it is against the rules. If you don't know what it used to be, I will print it on here in another way so it doesn't just pull up outside the thread.
The latin mass is really neat. Its very different. I am still lost in a lot of it not knowing latin myself. But I am being worked with on it.
Kevin
I will put it this way...
In my current username, the K equals kevin. The D equals Dallas. Don't forget to put the 4 in the middle of the two words and then it is at yahoo.com
Kevin
For those that don't know what a stander is. Here is what it is according to rejoice ministries.
A Standers Affirmation
I AM STANDING FOR THE HEALING OF MY MARRIAGE!... I will not give up, give in, give out or give over 'til that healing takes place. I made a vow, I said the words, I gave the pledge, I gave a ring, I took a ring, I gave myself, I trusted GOD, and said the words, and meant the words... in sickness and in health, in sorrow and in joy, for better or for worse, for richer or for poorer, in good times and in bad...so I am standing NOW, and will not sit down, let down, slow down, calm down, fall down, look down or be down 'til the breakdown is torn down!
I refuse to put my eyes on outward circumstances, or listen to prophets of doom, or buy into what is trendy, worldly, popular, convenient, easy, quick, thrifty, or advantageous... nor will I settle for a cheap imitation of God's real thing, nor will I seek to lower God's standard, twist God's will, rewrite God's word, violate God's covenant, or accept what God hates, namely divorce!
In a world of filth, I will stay pure; surrounded by lies I will speak the truth; where hopelessness abounds, I will hope in God: where revenge is easier, I will bless instead of curse; and where the odds are stacked against me, I will trust in God's faithfulness.
I am a STANDER, and I will not acquiesce, compromise, quarrel or quit.. I have made the choice, set my face, entered the race, believed the Word, and trusted God for all the outcome.
I will allow neither the reaction of my spouse, nor the urging of my friends, nor the advice of my loved ones, nor economic hardship, nor the prompting of the devil to make me let up, slow up, blow up, or give up 'til my marriage is healed.
- Author Unknown
Just another affirmation that God does heal marriages, you can look at the book of Hosea in the bible. His W left him and committed adultery and remarried I believe and Hosea waited for years until one day God directed him to go to the city and there he found his W who had become a slave. He paid for her release and brought her home and their M was restored. So yes, I do believe that God works in M's and restores them. There is the proof. God can do anything if we are faithful and follow his will.
Kevin
Truly.
Kevin, I started earnestly praying the Rosary everyday, contemplating the mysteries and asking Mary to intercede for my W and I for a reconciliation and happy family. Not 3 days later, after months of refusing to work on the M and saying it's over, W out of the blue suggested that she would like to try Retrouvaille.
I don't know what's going to happen, but surely it is God working in my life in a very tangible way.
K4D
You go for it.
The last time (which I thought was the last time!) I went to an Afrikaans NGK church to find out what my wife saw. Couldn't understand much of it even though I've been here in Cape Town for 21 years. I met with the priest over the course of a few weeks. In the last session he thought I better be prepared to move on.
I didn't go back for any more chats BUT I DID go back with my wife arm in arm a few weeks later where I took great pride in introducing her to him.
I think he saw a miracle.
I just need to help this miracle along by changing me and by keeping my faith, the faith in my wife and faith in SOMEONE up there that seems to be doing his/her very best for us.
All the best
CT
Thats great. More proof that God does work and heal in marriages. Like FaithfulH said, to often, people just give up and don't contiue on with the endurance to see their marriages restored. Its not an easy challenge. We all know that.
Honestly, yes, I have good days and bad days. Its a real rollercoaster of emotions. Somedays I think I am doing just fine and other days I think, why isn't anything changing. I have to remind myself that I still have to live and its not in my timing or uderstanding but in God's. And it will be at the perfect timing whenever that is. It is a hard road getting there and there are lots of bumps along the way. There are lots of times when despair sets in. But then you just have to remember that God is in control and it is his will for marriages to be restored.
Kevin
Not to be pessimistic or anything. God knows I'm a Stander too, but what if your W doesn't reconcile and divorces you?
Stuck,
I don't mind answering. It would only be a legal D, not a spiritual D. When Jesus said the 2 become 1 flesh, let no man separate what God has joined, I don't see an earthly judge having any power to separate what God joined. We are still married in the eyes of God. Its technically like a legal separation if you are looking at it from the bible perspective.
So to answer your question of what happens if she divorces me and even remarries, I still stand for my M. According to the bible in God's eye's, she is not that other man's W. I know of success stories where the W D'd and remarried and then later D'd and came back to her true H. So I will wait.
Don't get me wrong, that will truly be grueling and painful and I have no doubt I will have a lot of despair if that happens. It will truly test my faith. But even so, I know what is biblically true.
Kevin
To put it another way,
Jesus said any man who divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery. And any woman who divorces her husband and marries another commits adultery. If that new person was really their spouse, it wouldn't be adultery would it?
Now you can throw in the part of except for unfaithfulness, but there is much debate about what that is really talking about as far as whether it was during the engagement and at that time you were considered hitched waiting for the sacrament part of marriage to be done which is what the catholics teach it was or whether it was unfaithfulness after the marriage was done which is what the protestants teach.
None the less in either case, the OM would not be her H per the bible, not me.
Kevin
I will even go a little further. While this is something I have considered in the past that I no longer am considering, there is the Pauline Privilage option I believe that could possibly allow me to have the marriage annulled in the church and therefore be cleared in the eyes of God considering the circumstances. But that is not guaranteed and I'm not sure that I could live with that on my concious.
So I will stand and keep faith and work on me until God chooses to restore us. It could be 20 or 30 years from now. I sure hope it isn't. But it could be. That would be an extremely tough and challenging road. Thats why getting a life helps out because we just don't know how long it is going to take. One thing is for sure. If you walk away and marry someone else, you may never know what might have been.
Kevin
True. But would that mean that you still wouldn't remarry or meet any one because you believe she is still your W?
As much as I pray I don't have to go through that, that's what it means.
I guess another way of looking at it is, who are you trying to please? Yourself, or God? Which is more important? And if he will restore your marriage, can you hold out and wait for him to do that at his timing? I know I caused a lot of years of damage in mine. So I know if it takes years, its because I took years.
There are times when I see my W and think it will never happen. But then I remind myself of who is in charge and what is there that he can't do?
Kevin
I guess what I'm getting at is that the Roman Catholic church condones D in two situations: abuse and adultery.
You are free to re-marry after she has moved on. I'm just afraid that if you continue to see her as your W even after she's maybe married someone else and even had children with this new person, that your belief could change into zealotry.
I've seen that happen many a time. All you have to do is look in the papers and you see how some people just snap because they continue to hang on to something that isn't there any more.
Sometimes I think God also gives us opportunities and that if we give ourselves up to Him, he will take care of us no matter what. Even if it is sending us another person.
Just my 2 cents.
Actually it doesn't from everything I have read and been told. But this also depends on the circumstances. It really gets kind of hairy in those scenerios. Per the catholic church, just because someone commits adultery doesn't necessarily allow you to divorce and remarry. It depends on a number of things starting with were either or both baptized before the marriage took place and goes from there into a list of questions that have to be considered. As for abuse, I believe in very rare circumstances there is a case in the pauline privilage exception for annullment that has been used.
Now it is true that some catholics have abused the scenerio's for divorce and remarriage or getting an annullment. But the tradional teaching is really more of a rarity and certain criteria has to be met.
Either way, it doesn't change my stand. I took a vow for life. It is up to me to stand in for my W while God does his work.
Kevin
Oh, and no. I won't be going psycho if that is what you are referring to. I have a healthy respect for the law.
Kevin
No I didn't mean you'd go all psycho. I just meant that sometimes God doesn't want you to give your life up for another person. You give your life up to Him and that's it.
If your W is gone, she's gone. Will you reconcile in the future? Who knows? But God may be sending someone else your way. And sometimes you take the leap of faith and go for it.
Of course that is your decision to make when and if it gets there.
In any case, I can't argue any of this with my W. It just makes things worse and she just tells me she will be forgiven anyways and then wants less to do with me. lol. So, its just my stance from what I understand from the church and the bible.
If I am wrong, please feel free to correct me and show me where so that I can be corrected.
Kevin
I see what you are saying. And there are possible options should those things come to pass. But I don't want to consider them.
Kevin
You also have to remember. She is gone right now. It doesn't mean she will be gone forever. Right now these are the circumstances. Circumstances change with time.
Kevin
I've got the ole anniversary coming up August 2nd. 12 years.
*SMACK* Ouch.
Kevin
I guess what I'm getting at is that the Roman Catholic church condones D in two situations: abuse and adultery.
Sorry to step in here, but that is not accurate. I went to law school @ Catholic U's and is the only law school in America specifically sponsored by the Vatican. I won't preach here, I promise. But the Catholic Church does NOT grant divorce for any reason. Separations are and have always been allowed for abuse and adultery.
Annulments are not the same thing; they are recognitions that a valid marriage in the eyes of God, never took place. For instance, an annulment would occur if one of the parties was drunk or insane or bigamous at the time of the ceremony. No valid M ever occurred then, and therefore an annulment simply documents that. THIS would be quite hard, but not impossible, to do when children are involved. In a way, it makes them bastards, if you will. You can be divorced, like many LBSers, and come to mass and you may re-marry in a Catholic church if it turns out your former m, though legally ending in div, COULD have been annulled in the eyes of the Church.
YES Yes, annulments have absolutely been politicized and abused by some, (like the Kennedy who got one after 12 years of M and 3 kids...all so he could remarry in the church.) 
But the Church is made up of humans who sin and err. Doesn't make the message or Church wrong, just us and the way we screw things up is wrong. The Church has recognizedsince the advent of no fault div, that there are many LBsers who are stuck, who did nothing to end their M's but find themselves divorced and the Church does not condemn them. Parishes vary on what is allowed or done vis a vis the remarriage ceremony WITH for instance, a full mass and communion, is usually not done. But I've seen it in some cases. I know of a couple who were M for 7 years and H said he never wanted kids. That M got annulled b/c it was a fundamental lie at time of M AND one purpose, (not the only one) of M is to be open to kids. Legal annulments are similiar but vary by state, usually require some type of fraud or insanity or substance abuse. In sum, there is NO divorce IN the Church; though they recognize it happens outside the church. Not to be pedantic but I am not saying all this lightly; I took classes in Canon law as well as the regular law school, and I am certain of this.) Hope this clears up something.
You are free to re-marry after she has moved on. I'm just afraid that if you continue to see her as your W even after she's maybe married someone else and even had children with this new person, that your belief could change into zealotry.
I've seen that happen many a time. All you have to do is look in the papers and you see how some people just snap because they continue to hang on to something that isn't there any more.
Sometimes I think God also gives us opportunities and that if we give ourselves up to Him, he will take care of us no matter what. Even if it is sending us another person.
That's a possibility. We don't know everything. Or maybe God wants you to be alone a long time or forever as some sort of model. I think Stuck's point, among others, is that if you only have one option "allowed", it may seem as if you are limiting yourself. Why not simply trust that God will help YOU no matter what SHe chooses?
Just my 2 cents.
That's really my main point and hope and prayer for you.
j-
I've got the ole anniversary coming up August 2nd. 12 years.
*SMACK* Ouch.
Kevin
How about a card that says "It's our anniv, and It's still worth remembering"
and including a photo of the girls? Then sign it only with your name, not "love always" etc.
I mean,if the only way to have these wonderful little women (d's) in your life was to endure all this, then wouldn't you do it all again in a heartbeat?
Maybe that could be a safe approach to seeing your M, around your wife...
Just a thought. And Kev, expect no response from her before or after, okay? That way, no disappointment. If she sends you something, be gracious and leave it at that. If your d's bring it up, make it ALL about them and do you see how that makes sense for your d's? My kids loved hearing that, b/c at one point they blamed themselves for our problems. I told them all that,
it's b/c of them that I would NEVER regret M their dad no matter what happened. j-
25,
While that is a good idea... Its highly risky even from that approach. My W really has a lot of animosity towards me and made it very clear to me that she only wants to hear from me during exchanging the kids. Oddly enough, our anniversary falls on a Sunday this year and we always exchange the kids on Sunday. lol.
A friend of mine that I was at dinner with last night said don't do anything because she is probably testing me expecting me to do something in some sort of way.
To answer your question, yes, I would do it all over again and go through this for my daughters. I love them very very much and I am very grateful for the gift of them.
I will have to think that one over. Its a good one. I just wonder about the risk of it. It could set things back further if that is even possible. I have been trying to avoid talking to her or spending time with her and just staying out of her life for a while, while I work on me and let God work on her.
She is so caught up in other guys right now that could really burn her if I do anything at all in any way to recognize our anniversary. I will really think about it and pray on it. Maybe I will feel a nudge from God on that.
BTW... I was smacking myself to relieve any of you from needing to do it. lol.
Kevin
Last night I logged onto IM for a moment and I saw W online and she had typed in her status... "Is it me... or is it really everyone else".
I just wanted to say IT'S YOU!!!
But I just logged back off and went about my business.
Kevin
I loved Stuck808's comment today and I forget now who he was talking to. But he said everytime a WAW says they are looking for a sign from God he just wants to smack them upside the head with a bible and say Here's your sign!!
That was so classic. I wish I would have thought of that when my W said that months and months ago. Somehow I don't think it would have helped things. But I loved it none the less.
Kevin
Something else, a few months ago, my W threatened to give me problems with the kids if I took them to a catholic church. I am doing it anyways. I'd say that is Kev stepping up and doing what Kev needs to do and not looking to cater to W.
Kevin
I had a great time tonight. My girls wanted PB&J sandwiches and doritos and sugar free koolaid for dinner. So that is what we had. We cleaned up. Then we did a bible devo. Then D7 gave me a foot massage while D11 gave me a back massage. I got it all for only $5 each. What a bargain. Kids are great.
Kevin
The alarming thing to me was that when you look at the success stories they have posted, its about 90% husbands returning and 10% wives returning from doing a general scan of what is posted in the success section.
Hey, Kev! You sound great....and I'm glad my dear friend 25yrsmlc is helping you too! What I think is cool is that her 2x4's seem to be covered in fluffy cotton. You know....she swings them hard but somehow when they smack you they don't hurt you too bad....in fact, they do you a lot of good!
Regarding your comment that I highlighted at the top of this post...this doesn't mean that women don't choose to come back. Here's my take....look at this board and do the same exercise. How many women are here? Lots! I think the reason the stats play out the way that you saw on rejoiceministries (and here) is that when women leave the marriage, most men run off quickly in search of their next R. I have been fortunate to meet many men who believe that God is leading them to do just the opposite. Praise Him for that! So, the other side of the equation is that when MEN leave the marriage, I think you find far more faithful women who will stand for however long it takes. And thank God I have met many of those women here as well. So, don't be so quick to look at those stats as simply "women don't come back as often as men from a broken marriage". I actually have had the privilege of attending 2 of Bob & Charlyne Steinkamp's meetings in Pompano Beach FL. On both occasions, there were roughly 40 women and 5 men. Where were the men whose W's left the R? I'm guessing they were already in the next R! BTW, I think the stats would show that a higher percentage of W actually file for D than men which would lead you to expect the numbers of men in one of those sessions should actually by slightly higher than women.
You sound good to me! BTW, I like 25's idea about the anniversary acknowledgement with a focus on your girls. The KEY: NO EXPECTATIONS of your W! Keep the faith!
I have similar views on M and D K4D. I'm not Catholic but come from a very conservative denomination that was definately 'until death to us part' and D and re-marriage was a big no no. My mom and dad D when I was 3 - that was one model for M I had. The other was my Gma and Gpa who stayed together for years in a miserable marriage.
I don't know what any of that means - but I know I don't want either of them. Sounds like you're the same way.
I admire your resolve and hope to gain some myself.
That is great insight FaithfulH. I was trying to ponder why the huge difference. That clears up some things. That is also disapointing to see so many guy give up so quickly and move on to someone else. Granted I have only been at this for 11 months and made every mistake in the book during the process. But none the less, if I can stand for my marriage, I would hope that they could show some endurance as well. But who am I to judge. I'm nobody. I'm just a stander praying with faith that my W will come back while I work on myself.
I might give the card with the pictures of the kids a try. I'm just very hesitant after how things went down hill recently and W stating that she has closed the door on a future reconciliation. But I am not giving up on her. I just don't want to push her. I'm going to really pray about that one. And believe me, I know not to have any expectations on that one. I'll be lucky to not get slammed for that one.
Don't discount 25's 2x4's as to soft. Whew. She has thrown me some doozy's and rightfully so. But they do seem to be getting softer which has to mean a good sign that I am coming further along than I used to be.
Ya, I am trying to make the best of things and just leave W alone. I am not leaving her alone spiritually as in I pray for her, but I am leaving her alone physically.
Kevin
Thanks Kevin MT,
Don't let my current state fool you. Many here know how bad off I was for months before getting to this point and I still have my down moments. But they aren't crushing like they used to be.
Follow people's advice on here. There is so much experience and wisdom on here. They know what they are talking about.
Kevin
Its getting somewhat hard to focus today. Patience. It is a very long road Kevin. I am only in the opening stretch.
Kevin
One thing I have decided is that I don't want to be the example for what not to do. I want to be an example for what to do. But in doing that, I have to make sure I am doing what I need to do to make it happen.
I shall continue to be a stander and do what is necessary for myself, my girls, and my W.
Kevin
Here is a question. In my position with as many mistakes as I have made, how do I make sure the path for my W to come back is easy and smooth?
Kevin
Are you seriously asking this? If you want to see how you could make a path back to you, then go back to the first posts people have sent to you from day one.
She resents you, is angry at you, etc. You have to change you. Keep those changes going and maybe, just maybe she'll like those changes. But she is not even going to look your way (and hasn't) as long as she sees you as the same person she left.
There is NO quick way to make the path smooth and easy. It's filled with rocks and dips and turns. If you really believe in God, then you have to leave it up to Him. He will work on her through you. You have to learn to be compassionate, non-judgmental, confident (not that your W will come back, but in yourself) and that all requires WORK.'
Go back and check off the list again. From the start I've mentioned that it is the key to all of your W's unhappiness. If you don't correct those things (and it will take time...lots of time) she will never even entertain the thought of ever coming home. And these have to be sincere changes. Not "oh look at me, I'm changing why don't you come back". They have to be so real that you don't even have to mention them anymore. That they become a part of your life.
That's the only way to even start a path.
Ya, dumb question. I just hear people say leave the path to come back smooth and easy. So I just thought I would ask.
Today W sent me a text asking if I could watch the girls next on July 25th and August 8th since those are her weeks. She said if not, she will just hire a baby sitter. I said I will take them after thinking about it. It will allow me to take them to church those Sunday mornings. So it is worth it to me. I didn't tell W that. It was just my reasoning for taking them and also so they don't have to be with a baby sitter.
Then she texted back asking if she could have them those Sunday nights. I said "Certainly. The kids need equal time".
This Sunday I am taking them to a birthday party after church.
I'm not sure what we are going to do tonight. But I know I need to buy D7 some more socks. I also need to get my car inspected tomorrow. I hope it passes. The check engine light is on. But it was on last year also and they almost didn't pass it. But then when they determined it was nothing major, they passed it. Those darn EPA people making up inspection laws. UGGG. If it runs, I say let it be.
Praise be to God for everything good.
Kevin
It's only a dumb question if you keep asking it and expecting a different answer. You've asked the same thing over and over again. People tell you, then a week later you ask it again.
Rather than constantly asking, start doing. Then you'll get the answer you're looking for.
God will get things moving, but you have to move along with it.
Here is a question. In my position with as many mistakes as I have made, how do I make sure the path for my W to come back is easy and smooth?
Kevin
As w/ most anything under the sun, U give it your best shot and let God handle the rest.
Faith, Faith & more Faith
I don't think that it was a dumb question. If you've asked it several times in the past and have asked again I think it's explainable. This place seems to be a place where we can express our confusion and hurt. The hurt doesn't go away quickly and neither does the confusion and questions.
I think this is a good place to bring up questions even if it is the same one. Whatever you have to do in order to keep from making the mistake in real life with your W, I say do it. Now if someone were to get mad about receiving the same advise over and over again, then that would be sort of dumb.
From a Max Lucado email I got today. It kind of hit home for me. I am on his emailing list. His books are really great and teach a lot. Anyways, here it is.
Count to Eight (Woe, Be Gone)
by Max Lucado
“We have here only five loaves and two fish.” (Matt. 14:17)
How do you suppose Jesus felt about the basket inventory? Any chance he might have wanted them to include the rest of the possibilities? Involve all the options? Do you think he was hoping someone might count to eight?
“Well, let’s see. We have five loaves, two fish…and Jesus!” Jesus Christ. The same Jesus who told us:
Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. (Luke 11:19 NIV)
If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be given you. (John 15:7 NIV)
What ever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours. (Mark 11:24 NIV)
Standing next to the disciples was the solution to their problems…but they didn’t go to him. They stopped their count at seven and worried.
What about you? Are you counting to seven, or to eight?
Here are eight worry stoppers to expand your tally:
Pray, first. “Casting the whole of your care [all your anxieties, all your worries, all your concerns, once and for all] on Him…(I Peter 5:7 AMP)
Easy now. Slow down. “Rest in the Lord, and wait patiently for Him (Ps. 37:7).
Act on it. The moment a concern surfaces, deal with it. Don’t dwell on it. Head off worries before they get the best of you. Be a doer, not a stewer.
Compile a worry list. Over a period of days record your anxious thoughts. Then review them. How many of them turned into a reality?
Evaluate your worry categories. Detect recurring areas of preoccupation that may become obsessions. Pray specifically about them.
Focus on today. God meets daily needs daily. He will give you what you need when it is needed.
Unleash a worry army. Share your feelings with a few loved ones. Ask them to pray with and for you.
Let God be enough. “Your heavenly Father already knows all your needs. Seek the Kingdom of God above all else, and live righteously, and he will give you everything you need.” (Matt. 6:32-33 NLT).
Eight steps. Pray, first. Easy, now. Act on it. Compile a worry list. Evaluate your worry categories. Focus on today. Unleash a worry army. Let God be enough.
P-E-A-C-E-F-U-L
Uh oh. 25 is on the move now. I think I may get a HARD 2X4 today. And probably rightfully so. I spent to much time dwelling today instead of getting back to focusing on me.
But I know what I need to do. Get back on track. I am doing better after all. Gotta keep it that way.
Kevin
I have a question. About a month ago, I was in the candy store section of the building where I work. This security guard comes in and it is a lady probably in her 20s that works at the front desk of the entrance. Well we are both standing in the same section so I just introduce myself and ask her about her job and so forth. She tells me her name and I tell her mine and that was pretty much it. Nice person.
She works on Thursday and Fridays. Well now when I leave each night on my way out I either say have a good night or have a good weekend depending on which day it is and keep on walking out the door. I'm just being friendly.
Well, she always smiles and then turns her head to the other side while still smiling at me but never says anything back. She just watches me walk out the door while she smiles.
I'm just a bit curious. Isn't that kind of strange? Every single time. Am I missing something here?
I have no interest in her as I am standing for my M. But its just odd to me.
Kevin
For me not to respond would feel strange, but a lot of people can look straight at a person who is smiling and speaking and never respond. Just the difference in people and their ways or customs. Have you tried "not" speaking to see what she does? Might be interesting....lol.
Sandi2,
I haven't tried that one. Maybe I will do that next week. It has just felt a little odd is all.
Kevin
Maybe she thinks you are flirting. You would be surpirsed aat what some folks think. I would hope she could tell if a man was or wasn't but maybe she is "hoping" you are flirting!
Maybe. Perhaps I should just not say anything anymore and just walk out the door. I admit that she is attractive and at one of my weaker moments that led me to talk to being as how she was standing right next to me. But it was just friendly talk. And I have in no way at all intiated any other conversations since then. And she has to be in her 20s, so I don't know why she would be hoping that I would be flirting with her.
Then again, my W was having her A with a guy who was 9 years older than her and then started hanging out with a guy who is 20 years older than her. So I guess anything is possible.
I think it best to just not even say have a good night anymore. I don't want to give any false ideas. I am very much dedicated to standing for my M.
Kevin
Well, don't feel too badly. I was usually the same way unless I got a creepy feeling about somebody. Then a guy I had known almost all my life said something about a girl at work who seem to be very forward or flirty. I was shocked b/c I simply saw her as friendly. When I told him that I was as friendly as she was.....he said, "Yeah, but you've known me all my life". I was so surprised that I wasn't sure how I was suppose to act anymore.....
After that, I reframed from appearing to be "overly" friendly! (lol) But I wouldn't think what you were doing was in any way a flirtatious act. Like I said.....it takes all kinds to make up the world!
Just yesterday you went on about how you're standing for your M, etc. you post the standers affirmation and everything. And about how you still consider yourself M even after a D.
Then today you talk about a girl who was flirting with you? And you wonder about her? And mention how attractive she is.
Seriously?
How transparent can you be. If you are that weak that you can't even maintain a thought for a day, how do you intend to last another year or even another month.
What do you want?
Just yesterday you went on about how you're standing for your M, etc. you post the standers affirmation and everything. And about how you still consider yourself M even after a D.
Then today you talk about a girl who was flirting with you? And you wonder about her? And mention how attractive she is.
Seriously?
Huh !?!
I don't run to the defenses of this guy much ...but come on if
you
How transparent can you be. If you are that weak that you can't even maintain a thought for a day, how do you intend to last another year or even another month.
What do you want?
Huh !??!
I don't run to this guy's defenses ordinarily but if you are gonna choose to use him as a punching bag make it for a legitimate reason ..would ya.
In no way shape or form did I detect any sorta impropriety from his comments about this female bystander that he noticed. That was the extent of it. Maybe some are putting there own slant on things and doing a bit too much reading of words/thoughts that are not spoken or expressed.
T
to wonder about a girl and remark about how attractive she is does not contradict my standing for my own M.
Eunech (sp?)-city i guess
Stuck,
I am not wondering about her in terms of is she an option. What I was wondering is what is going through her mind simply because of the oddness of how she always acts. And when I talked to her, it was at least a month ago if not longer and she was standing right next to me and all I did was just chat for a couple of moments. Nothing more, nothing since. When walking out the door at night, I felt I was just being friendly by saying to have a good night. I then just keep walking out the door.
I don't believe I have contradicted my stand at all for my M. If I was contradicting my stand for my M, I would be considering her an option. I am not, nor will I.
Kevin
T - I agree - must be wonderful to be "needed". Boost for the old libido. Nothing wrong with that
We all take that as it comes. I would also feel GREAT about that. Not a loss to the world etc.
Kev - this must have made you feel on top of the world - cherish it!
I guess it is flattering, but at the same time, I don't want to give off any wrong impressions.
I wear my wedding ring regardless of what my current circumstances with my W are.
I will trust in the Lord and do my best.
Kevin
Who all is on facebook?
Kevin